The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Seahawks-Rams WTF Classic, an NBA Six-Pack, and Week 16 NFL Picks With Peter Schrager

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Peter Schrager to react to the wild 'TNF' game between the Seahawks and Rams that went to OT before making their Ringer 107 picks for the week (2:00). Then, Bill cracks open a six-pack of buzz-worthy NBA topics including the Clippers, the Christmas matchups, and more! (58:14) Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Peter Schrager Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more at https://linkedin.com/simmonsbill This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Don’t settle for just any insurance when there’s State Farm. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Sunwing. Imagine a vacation where you get so much more. Sunwing vacations make it easy to save more, do more. Their fly financial advisors do the work so you can enjoy incredible value and perks. Think flights, hotels, meals, drinks, and activities all in one amazing package. Get more fun, more relaxation, and more sunshine without distress. Discover your next all-inclusive vacation at sunwing.ca or with your travel advisor today. The Bill Simmons podcast, brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network.

I put up a new rewatchables on Wednesday and on Monday. I did two this week. We did The Sure Thing to pay tribute to Rob Reiner on Wednesday, me and Chris Ryan. I love that movie. You can find it. It's on YouTube. Spoiler. Not streaming anywhere.

Hopefully Hollywood will figure out a way to get it to stream. We did high fidelity on Monday. So two really good ones. And we have a really good documentary in the music box series on HBO. Canning Crows, have you seen me lately? It's up right now on HBO Max. Watch it whenever you want. You can also watch the one about WizKid or the one about Jeff Buckley.

We have three so far. So check all of them out. I made Peter Schrager stay up late to talk about an incredible, we said that word too much, but an incredible Ram Seahawks game. We're going to react off that. We do Ringer 107 picks. And then I opened a six-pack for the NBA. Had some thoughts.

Had some more NBA thoughts. So this is a fun podcast. We'll take a break. Pearl Jam, and then Peter Schroger. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown.

You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to get in help you need, State Farm is the real deal. like a good neighbor. Stay Farm is there. It is 8.54 Pacific time. Peter Schrager said a couple days ago, not only do I want to come on Thursday's pod, I want to come on after Ram Seahawks. And I'm like, are you sure? You're in the East Coast? You sure you want to do this? You're working all day at ESPN? He said, no, no, I want to do it. And then we have a four-hour game. It goes in overtime. The Seahawks win on a two-point. It was the most dramatic, probably important Thursday night game, at least of this decade. Swings the NFC. swing swings the one seed the Rams I don't even feel like they're in disgrace they did everything they could that almost 600 yards they had the ball almost 44 minutes and the Seahawks win the game for a variety of reasons some good some dumb uh is that has there ever been a better Thursday night game than that I don't know I'm trying to think they had another good Thursday

night game a few years back where Tyler Lockett had an incredible catch in the back of the end zone in the first app I bill that was so fun It was so fun. It's like we were both texting throughout. And Amazon did that amazing thing that we love. And I know cousin Sal mentions, you know, the Rams,

they have a 97% chance win probability on this one. Yeah. Don't want to see that stat ever again, guys. It doesn't matter. I don't care. I don't care about the win probability. I know. We were writing,

I mean, if we were back in the day when we used to read newspapers, like I could imagine the press box, the ink being dry on the Sam Darnold article that just can't win a big game always shits the bed when it matters peas down his leg the whole thing

the two interceptions check out my iPad all the times I deleted the topics I had for us it was like can they play Sam Donald next week I had that like written down the third quarter he was amazing down the stretch and he made all the plays

that was so fun but what was weird is they didn't trust him I thought down the stretch especially late in the in the fourth quarter they were being very careful about how much they wanted to put in his hands where it was like we could also just take this to a t but then when it's 3730 and they actually needed him to go down the field that was the best stretch of the game he had they threw the ball six times in the first half jsn at zero yards one target they just handed the ball to charbonnet and kenneth walker every play and it's like oh they want to win 1310 well that's not going to do it then he stinks it up in the third quarter. Well, he has two of the worst picks. Horrible picks. It was like he had one bad pick and then the next one was even worse. I felt like he was a pick six waiting to happen. And like, again, sports writer, it's already done. It's sent to the editor. And it's one of those.

All right, I'm getting the elevator down and we're going to go talk in the locker room. But I've got everything filled out. I just need to fill in the quotes. And we'll get that at the podium and then some stuff at the locker. But the article's been written that the Seahawks have a major problem and this guy is this generation's you fill it in whoever it is who couldn't win the big game warren moon whoever it was like in the 80s 90s whatever it's like insulting a war moon i'm just saying you know i was sitting next to my daughter and she just came my daughter's from college she doesn't care about football she came down she was on her phone just sitting next to me watching the game and i was getting so mad at the seahawks because i have them to win the

nfc west like i might have had some money on them i'm reading against cooper cup for fantasy and she finally just got up and left. She was like, you're a psycho. I'm like, why do you even watch football when it makes you this crazy? I'm like, you don't understand. Sam Darnold always does this when the game actually matters. This is who he is. I couldn't handle it. And then he redeems himself

in an hour. I was trying to think of a great and Warren Moon is probably, it's a Hall of Fame quarterback that won a lot of big games. I'm trying to think of a guy, though, but who didn't have the big playoff win, you know, and that would be Moon, but I guess in basketball, Hardin is kind of the equivalent. But these

Darnold's not at that level. Those are Hall of Fame guys. But he had the last Rams game, too, combined with this one, where it's like, this is the team you need to beat. And the playoff game last year. Yeah. Where he was sacked nine times and looked in. He's going to have two back-to-back 14 and three seasons.

I mean, this guy, that was unbelievable. That was unbelievable. And Rams' defense played well for 55 minutes of the game. They played great. They were up. And then you add in every classic game. Every classic game needs to have a bizarre play, the two-point conversion that was a backward pass that Charbonnet picks up and suddenly counts for two.

Well, wait, let's go backwards. He throws a pick. It's 3014. Yep. So we're already in the fourth quarter and we're in two touchdowns and two-two points just to send it to overtime range. Shahid, who they feel like they just keep in the garage and just take them out on Sundays. Even in some of the biggest plays of this game, like his speed on the field. the Rams. Every time he's out in the field, I'm terrified. He was barely playing, but he has that

huge punt return. They get a two. All of a sudden, it's 30-22. Oh, get a stop. All of a sudden, they're coming back down. Oh! And then the two-point, and they blow it, and they run the worst two-point play. I didn't know what the fuck it was. Literally hit a screen pass that hits the other team in the helmet. And then all of a sudden they're reviewing it. I've never seen that before. A backward pass that rolls into the end zone. Why did Zach Sharperney even pick it up? Herb Street's praising him. It's like, that's good awareness by Herb Street. It's like, he was bored. He was picking the ball up. What did McCauley say? Because I mean, I'm trying to remember. Like, was there an explanation? I guess it makes sense. But on a fourth down, if that were to happen, is that,

is that, are you allowed to, like, gain yards? Or is it just on a two-point conversion? It was bizarre. And then I guess it counts. Well, no, and I think, isn't the rule, you can't advance like a fumble for a touchdown? in the last two minutes, but a two point, it's cool. Yeah. Well, you look at, so the ramps had five possessions in the fourth quarter. They somehow couldn't close the game. They missed a field goal.

They got conservative. They did. They got a little tight. First half, we're texting, you're like, gosh, McVeigh's going for everything. Four fourth down attempts, they go for the most he's ever done in a game. He all did it in the first half. And then fourth quarter, it seemed like they got a little bit. All right, let's kick the ball.

Let's punt the ball. let's kick the field goal. They missed the field goal after we heard how this guy hadn't missed a kick his entire time as a RAM of course misses the field goal. I mean,

if your listeners are listening and it's already Friday or Saturday, you're like, wait, this happened, this happened, we are fresh off this thing. So I'm just trying to rack it through

in my brain and I'm still in shock because it was so fun. Like, I love football games that are crazy. That was a crazy game. It was the craziest game of the year. The Rams had,

and just in the, in the, in the, quarters before we got TOTI, they had the ball for 37 of the 60 minutes and they had over 500 yards and probably couldn't even believe it was going to overtime. Seattle's secondary was demolished. They had, they lost three of their best guys. They're all new. Nobody left. And then Warren, they're all injured. Right. And then Puka, who I guess just he's like Michael Myers. He like just gained steam as the horror movie goes along. And just when you think he's he's done,

Then he gets another one. He gets like a 41-yard touchdown. I went against him in fantasy at 40.5 points. I haven't even, the rest of my team hasn't even played yet in the playoffs. I already feel like I lost. And then Stafford for, you know, it looked like there were various points in the game

where I was like he's going to win the MVP. This is a wrap. Yeah. And now he's not even going to be the one seed unless the Seahawks who, by the way, Seahawks. They have a tough next two games. At Carolina, at San Francisco

with their left tackle didn't play today. They have all these secondary injuries. They basically have one receiver, you know, so you can't feel greater for them. Plus, Sam Donald going back to Carolina. But if you're the Rams, you have four losses now. You're 11 and 4. You lost that Philly game,

which was one of the three dumbest losses of the year. Yep. You lost that San Francisco Mac Jones game. Terrible. And then you lose this game. And you're like, what the hell? And you lose Carolina. And those are your four losses.

Good stat. I got friends just texting me. second team in history to have a quarterback throw for 450 yards and no interceptions and a wide receiver have 225 receiving yards and still lose. It was, I mean, it's a crazy, crazy game.

Then you had Seattle gets the interception OT and then we review it and he didn't get his hands under it. You're like, all right. But after they review it's incomplete, he'd already made his entire team run all the way down in the end. To celebrate. It's like, no, now we've got to get back in the field. Cooper Cup.

fumbles early. Former Ram redeems himself later. Ernest Jones, Super Bowl hero. He gets that interception. Actually, it's not an interception. These two teams are so intertwined and have so much history. And in recent history, the Rams have just owned the Seahawks, whether it be the playoff game when Jared Goff comes in with nine fingers and beats the Seahawks up in Seattle. And then the last few years, of course, where Darnel just hasn't been able to get it done when he was with the Vikings, obviously, you know, that's fine. But with the Seahawks, Seahawks. They couldn't do it either. So Darnold, Seahawks, the Rams have always been kryptonite for both these guys. And sure enough, well, big picture, Rams dominate that game for

the first 50 minutes. And it felt like a different since class watching it. It felt like the Rams were the best team in the NFC and maybe even the whole league. And Seattle was the light heavyweight trying to come up and fight the heavyweight. Couldn't really run the ball that effectively. They took out JSN. They really had nowhere else to go. Darnold. looked like he was in seeing ghost mode their defense couldn't really get pressure it wasn't like that that crazy 12th man kind of crowd

and the Rams dominated the game and the punt return flipped the game and then it got weird and I don't know if I'm the Rams how do I feel coming out of that game like it's like oh my God we blew that but we know we're better than them are you looking in the mirror going

what's wrong what do we have to what did we do wrong is this a flaw what happens you thought the Devante Adams situation would be their Achilles heel. However, you go through the box score, they threw for 457 yards, and they had

Nakua catch 12 balls, and then Xavier Smith and Mumfield and Allen and Ferguson and Parkinson and winning thing. They all played great. That wasn't the reason they lost. It wasn't like they missed Devante so much that they couldn't score points. And then the defense was getting pressure. It's a crazy

game in a crazy environment up there on a short week, in a week where you can make a million excuses, whether it be your number one wide receivers out with a hamstring, your number two or 1A wide receivers and dealt with a controversy throughout the week with a streamer

and then the team has to put out a statement, he has to put out a statement, and then, oh yeah, by the way, the head coach had a baby on Monday, has been violently ill the week before, and the team had a flight delay. I mean, there's a million ways you can say, let's just not overdo this. That said, that is an all-time loss,

an all-time loss in a game that they needed to win. Yeah, so if they drop to five, so they're 11 and 4 now, but by the way, San Francisco, they play Indianapolis and Phil Rivers, Week 16, we'll be talking about that. You're going to do picks with me this week. I'll be there, Monday night football. Yeah, so they could potentially be tied with San Francisco. So maybe don't even have the five seed locked up. But if you get the five seed this year, I don't feel like that's the same kind of disaster. Yeah, you're playing one of those crappy.

And they'll be a, the Rams would be like a five-point favorite. I am personally not sold on Seattle getting through these next two-ones skate. I still feel like, I'll look at Fandoah as you're thinking about this, but if you had to pick a team, even though the Seahawks have a slight advantage right now, who is going to be the NFC West champion between these two teams, knowing what's left on the schedule where you have Seattle's? San Francisco has the tiebreaker right now over Seattle. They beat them in week one.

But they play in week 18. Yeah. So if San Francisco... And then the Rams go at Atlanta and then home Arizona. They're not losing again. So they're going to finish 13 and 4. Rams will be 13 and 4. I'd have to do the math now.

But like, if San Francisco beats... What's San Francisco got? They got the Colts. Colts. They have the Bears at home. Not an easy one. No. And then home for Seattle.

They went out. I have the division odds for you what do we got Seahawks minus 135 on Fandole was that your first yawn? I didn't yawn It's like a giggle Rams plus 270

49ers plus 330 it feels like all of those should be way closer I like the Rams plus 270 I'd still feel like they could I don't think they lose again and if Seattle and San Francisco So if Seattle loses, well, I don't know, hard to figure out. Hard to figure out.

It should be closer. I was inspired to stay up not only because of this game and me knowing what it would be, but when I heard Zach Lowe breaking down the NBA Cup finals on the East Coast in Connecticut on Tuesday night, that's when I texted you. I'm like, I could do this. You're like same age range. Yeah. Both have kids.

Both kids are sleeping about 10 feet away. But that's okay. That's good. I have a couple small ones for you, no, it's off the game. The Rams, the rare indoor team, that also feels like they're kind of built for January cold weather. And I think a big reason for it is Nakua, who's just extraordinary. And I don't know.

It feels a little like watching Cooper Cup that one year where it's like, I don't know how many years somebody can do this where it's just, you're just driving the car, 85, miles for seven hours a day and at some point the car is going to be like, dude, enough. But right now, he's the receiver you would want out of any receiver in the league for a playoff game. So what I like about them is, no matter

where they're playing in January, I feel like they're okay. I don't know if I feel that way about the Seahawks. Oddly enough, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, Seahawks under Mike McDonald are just incredible on the road. Like, they've lost a bunch of games at home, but I think they've lost like two games

on the road under Mike McDonald's. in two years. So I agree. The way they play where they don't run the ball, their offensive line is fine, and that they rely on a lot of passes to JSN

and then hoping for defensive turnovers and all that. It's not a brand of football. Their team's pass rush is always feels like it's either getting there, it's almost getting there every play. I'm not sure if that wins a game in Green Bay or Chicago or Philadelphia.

I get what you're saying. That said, this team... Maybe they won't have to. They might not have to. They might be home. home for two rounds or for, you know, one and then go on the road from there? I'm still not positive he trusts Darnold.

There was a play in the first half when McVeigh was super aggressive. And then Seattle had a similar circumstance near midfield. Maybe it was a little more on their end, but it was like a fourth and one. And they punted. Yeah, no. I was like, oh, that's interesting. You still don't totally trust that, dude. The entire first half was an indictment on what they thought of Darnold.

they were run, I mean, that run game, I think they averaged 2.7 yards per carry all season. They were just running the ball with Charbonnet and Walker. And if he doesn't have that one 45 yard catch early on, there was no passing yards in the first half. So it was this, we're going to protect Sam Darnold approach, which you can't win football games that way, especially with a quarterback making $100 million, which Sam Darnold is. And then the second half, it started off terribly. And then like we said, he was fantastic the final 10 minutes of this game. He was.

You know, far be it for me to make suggestions. to an NFL team when they know more about football and plays and personnel than I do. It's weird to me that Shaheed doesn't play more for them and that they don't look for more ways to just have him on the field being scary. Like, I would even consider lining him up at running back just to give the hint of like screen passes or quick coming out of the backfield, anything. I think that guy's terrifying. And every time they used them, he felt like he made an impact.

Well, the punt returns have been huge this season. And he's, you know, that's the play of the game to me. He brought everything back there. No question. And I think he had like, you know, a couple plays in the passing game. But to your point, use him on some trick plays, use him on a reverse, use him on a, you know, whatever it be. How about one play down the sideline for 40 yards? Just like try to do the Aaron Rogers.

I'll get a pass interference or it's a punt or he'll catch it. I think midway through the game, he had zero targets for zero catches, zero yards. I think it took until the fourth quarter. He actually had a catch, which is strange. I don't get that. Last note I had was I thought that was the most exciting two point in a while. Oh my gosh. It was hilarious because Herb Street, they're driving in Herb Street.

They're unlike the 20, Herbsters, like, ow, I think if they score a touchdown, they'll probably go for a two point. It's like, yeah. Yeah, I think that's what's going to happen, Kirk, considering they lost the first matchup and they can't have a fucking tie. They're going to probably go for this. If they go, oh, one in one, that doesn't win the division. Doesn't help them, Herbie. They had to do that. I also, it was, like, even if they had just one matchup,

the way these teams are doing it now, it's almost like, you're a coward if you don't. Like, all right, you're a coward. It is true. Go do it. You don't want to hear with it. Go show what you're made of and show your team what you're made of. Well, what if you had won the first game?

Oh, maybe you've kicked the extra point. I don't know. Yeah. A tie's good enough, but then you had to stop them again with three minutes left. Wait, can we do who you think is going to win the Super Bowl now after you see that game? Because right now on Fandall, Rams plus 490, Seahawks plus 550 are the two favorites. So the Rams are still favored over the Seahawks. Rams are still favorite.

Interesting. Bills are plus 800, Denver 850, Eagles 10 to 1, Packers, 11.1. What an amazing season that that's our choices. You can make cases for all of them. Although I think the Packers might have had too many injuries. I wouldn't really want to make the case for them at this point. Who did you have? I'm not to bring it up if it was bad, but who did you have?

Do you have Ravens before the season? Who was your team to out of the AFC? No, I had Packers over the Bills. Packers Bills. I had Bills over Eagles. So we're both still alive here. Yeah. Both of us with Bills.

Only the Chiefs picks are not alive. Yeah. I know. Chiefs. I think you should feel good about the bills because I think they at least know who they are now. And they've been there. They know they don't have deep passes anymore and they figured out how to adjust

and it's Alan and Cook and they're just good enough on defense and for the AFC it might be enough. It might be. It might be. We could talk about all the teams. I mean, I've been on the Broncos. You've been on the Broncos from before the season. You picked them to win the AFC West. I was hyping them up just because of

my usual affinity for Sean Peyton. But what they do is maddening for the rest of the league. They keep you in a game. be in a game and then they break your heart at the end with a Bo Knicks heroic drive every single time and they win games by one score and they don't lose at home

and so if they're a one seat. They have a pass rush they can get a couple 40 yard passes every play. Best defensive track and football. Yeah. They bring things to the table. They have a good home field advantage. Great special teams. And it might work out that you just have to go through there to make the Super Bowl if you're in the AFC which is good for them because they're good in Denver.

I was not I was obviously not a Knicks guy and it was one of the we were calling him boot and rally bow for the first eight weeks me and Sal

thought he was great last week he was really good and then there was a lot of good stuff this week on the different shows with the video

and the all 22 of just like how good some of his throws were I even I was learning some the too high he was beating

the too high scraping linebacker scraping linebacker they're down 2314 and he leads him on three straight scoring drives. And I talked to Peyton this week. He's just like, I love this kid.

I'm like, I know, I know. That he's like, we've got to get Harvey going more. So they don't even feel like they've gotten the rookie running back in the flow. He's played okay. But they still feel like there's more to go on offense. And then their defense is legit. So, you know, too high safety. You could talk about all that all you want.

I'll talk about the quarterback and the coach and the narrative that they just win at home. And when you need a big kick, Will Lutz will make that big kick. and when you need a big punt return, Marvin Mims will make that big punt return. So it's like they're very difficult to be because they don't shoot themselves in their own foot, even though sometimes they make head scratching play calls and you're like,

what is Sean doing? They always get themselves out of it and Bo Nix gets the job done. And healthy at this point of the year. Yeah, yeah. Whereas like the Patriots, I think, have gone the other way and I've had some injuries that have hurt.

They were probably a little overvalued to begin with, but we're going to talk about them when we do, we'll take a break. We'll do ringer 101. You're going to help me to fix this week. I'm going to go into the best Thursday night game. I'm trying to rack my brain here. See, I did the thing that I hate when other people do when it's like the recency bias.

No, you just assume something was the best because you just saw it. But I think when it's basically you're battling for the number one seed, you have an incredible comeback game with an iconic, ridiculous play that we're always going to remember, like the fucking backward pass to a point that somehow counted and a punt return TD. And we go an OT. and they have to go touchdown 2-point to swing it and they actually get it. It's pretty good.

There was a Cowboys Packers Thursday night game. Back when like Bryant Gumble was calling the games where Aaron Rogers made his first start as a Packer. I remember that being like must-see TV on a Thursday night against the Cowboys and Rogers played awesome in the game. That was 2007 though. I don't have one in the last 15, 20 years that I can remember that have been anything like we just watched.

The only other thing before we, take a break we probably should have led with this or at least mention it in the first five minutes like that was a little fork in the roadie for darnald oh like let's play it out where they just Shaheed it's a block block in the back on the punt return TD and they just lose by 14 it's done it is just we're killing what do we do next year with sam darnalds what do we do a quarterback hanging fruit quarterback because he's been with the jets and said he saw ghosts against the Patriots And he's not a guy who's like loud. He's kind of a soft-spoken guy that's not in the media.

So he's the kind of quarterback that we would just, as a national media, which is tomorrow on Get Up, I'm on the show in about six hours. We would do two hours on Sam Darnold not being able to win a big one. You're going to get up in six hours? Yeah. Come on. Are you in studio? Yes.

Oh, my God. It's courageous by you. I got to talk about, you know, all the Miami Hurricane Pass rushers that are going to be draft-rush. steal some of my points. I already have been jotting them down. The thing you said, though, about the fork in the road, you know, the only other quarterback that, like, I could think of was cousins could not win in prime time

year after year after year. And then they played the Saints in a wild card round game, the COVID year, no, the year before COVID, so it was 2020. And they went into New Orleans. He hits Kyle Rudolph in overtime for the touchdown. And it was like his first big win. And after like five years of cousins just sucking and getting, being piled on and getting beat up like a pinata.

We all had to come in that Monday morning and kind of like tail between our legs. Like, all right, cousins, he won a big one. I don't know if that's tomorrow with Arnold. This isn't a playoff game. And last year, he came back against the Bears in a big game. He came back against the Seahawks, which was kind of the reason they signed him.

He did it in Seattle. He was fantastic. Like, he had big drives. But this one with the division on the line and everything and the way it started, that's a huge game, man. it's good because it's polarizing either way you can zag the other way and be like I don't I still don't feel comfortable with them

what about the first 50 minutes guys the good news is you're not going to have to do that much tomorrow and get up because there's probably going to be five other people on it is you get to just pick your spots and drop in barely available room here you're doing your doing the hands like this all right we're taking a break

to help me with ringer 107 in a second this episode is brought to by LinkedIn ads The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over one billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue.

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We gave Joe House the week off. He was like Sam Donald. He was seeing ghosts. We didn't have the magic this year. Everyone's getting killed in picks this year, Shreggs. Oh, gosh. It's so hard. It's my Picks League that I, my Gus Ramsey, who I think you know, who's run this

Pix League since the early 90s. This is the worst. We have like 28, 30 teams in the league. We just pick against the spread. It's the worst across the board records we've ever had in the league. And I don't really know the reasons for it, but it's just every time you think it's going to zig, it's ags and vice versa and people are struggling. So I have a friend, my friend Jordan, he sends me the standings of his pick.

leagues all the time. He's like, what do you think? I'm like, you don't want, you don't want anyone. Like, just go with your gut. You're winning. Like, go. Just like, you don't want anyone. It is so hard, especially with the spread. Like, this year has been just, just when you want to crown a team, they end up losing. I mean, you think about that Carolina team in their season. They beat all these world beaters. They beat the Packers and the Rams and they get swept by the saints. It's like, you can't, you can't predict. Well, think about, they're also getting way better at how to set the spreads. Yeah. Like the Rams line. today was Seahawks, it ended up

Seahawks minus one and a half, which I had. I lost by half point. They won by two. Yeah. Could I just bet the money line? I didn't. Okay, two games, I think we're going to throw out, Cowboys Chargers, Bucks, Panthers, Lions Steelers, Jets, Vikings, Giants,

Falcons cards, and Texans, Raiders. I thought about Brown's home, getting 10 and a half in Cleveland against the bills, but it's just not fun to bet against Josh Allen. No. And That could be 41-0. Yeah, that's one of those you feel stupid.

Dolphins, Bengals. I don't know what to get with the dolphins. You have a seventh round quarterback who I was told was undraftable in the draft, and he's going for his first career start. So as bad as the Bengals mojo is, I don't know what we're, it's such a variable with Quinn Ewers. But here's the thing. Is there, like, how is he going to be worse than Tua?

I know. Tua's have been unplayable. for six weeks. And, you know, last week, I just thought they were going to run the ball down Pittsburgh's throat. As soon as they fell behind by three, they had to start throwing it with him.

We're talking about narratives. We lost it. With Donald, it's like until you win those games, like the narrative with the weather, it's so obvious and it's so stupid, it's such low-hanging fruit, but I'm there on Pittsburgh on Monday night,

and I'm like, I don't know, he doesn't win in the cold. And everyone's like, yeah, butt. And I'm like, I don't think there's a yeah, but he's just terrible in the cold. There was a yeah, but on this podcast last week. House and I were,

Like, let's zag. Everyone thinks Tua can't win in cold weather. We're zagging. Guess what? We zagged off the road. We're staying away from Dolphins Spangles, even though I just want to point out, it shouldn't have shifted the line that much that Tua was in the quarterback.

How much did it? I think it was plus one and a half to plus four and a half. I felt like that line moved three points. That's fair. You're right. Depress Joe Burrow? I don't know. Depress Joe Burrow is the saddest version of any quarterback.

I hate DePress Joe Burrow. Last week was really sad. have we ever had a better quarterback seem sadder so sad even stafford in Detroit didn't seem this sad no we couldn't have been more depressed so sad and like we we run the sound on these shows we have to respond to it and I'm like guys it's almost too dark like I don't like everyone becomes a sports therapist on these shows too it's like everyone has their own like mental health theory I'm like guys let's let let Joe Burrow play football and we'll figure it all out when the season's over just how dark this is but

the way he played last week, his worst game as a pro after those comments. I mean, that's bleak. It's really, it's one of the first times we've seen a star quarterback where the soundtrack for his passes would be 80s music. That's like the Smiths enjoyed a mission. The music that I liked once in a time.

Like he should be wearing an overcoat during the sidelines. The Donnie Darko soundtrack. I like the Dolphins plus four and a half, but there's better games, I think. Okay, five games in a parlay. Throw the parlay first. Okay.

Bears Packers, Bears plus one and a half at home against Green Bay, who lost Michael Parsons. They're not going to have Watson. Josh Jacobs still banged up. Who else has heard on the Packers? They might get Watson. Come on.

We don't know. It's Saturday, I know. It'll be like we're not sure. Like, maybe they'll run. And they have one more injury. Probably not going to get Evan Williams, who's their great safety. He's out.

Van Ness has been in and out of the lineup. And probably, I wouldn't imagine he's out there and then Wyatt's out for the year. Oh, and then Crafts out for the year. That was the other than. They had, what, nine elite players and they're down to four?

I think I read they had like, you know, 10 guys who were day one starters who are probably not going to be active for this game, which is not great. Not great. I think the bears can run on them.

I trust Caleb enough to do the one wild play a quarter where he just gets out of a sack. I don't totally, I'm sure he'll throw them the ball once. But I think it's okay. Your guy, Ben Johnson, big win, take a bow. You were touting before the year.

Big one. But I was thinking, doing a little tweak with the Bears plus four and a half and then taking the under up to 53 and a half. Because I can't imagine there's a lot of points on a Saturday cold weather, Chicago game. What are they had? That's a 30 to 27 game. I don't see it.

I would have thought Seattle versus the Rams without Devante Adams and the rain in the whipping wind, it would have been on the game. Yeah, but think about what that took, though. That took a punt return TD and it's just weird shit, the backward two-point. I will say this about Greenback. Yeah. Halfley's really good as a defensive coordinator.

And like, this is one of those. All right, we've owned this team for two decades. They're at home. It's their biggest game since they went to the playoffs and had the double doink against the Eagles. This play Saturday night is going to be rocking. We've already beaten them once.

Can we get enough out of guys like JJ and Iqbari and guys like, you know, Baron Sorrel, whoever they have filling in on the offensive line? Can we get enough? Can we galvanize? Can we look at each other and say, everyone's counted us out? Nobody believes in us.

Classic nobody believes in us game. And then say, we own this team. I know. So I'm saying the defense, the defense. Like, can they just do enough? Because, you know, last time they played two weeks ago, zero runs over nine yards. They carried the ball 32 times maybe

and they didn't break 100. It was as good as you could have possibly asked from the Packers defense against a runoffence that ran all over the Philadelphia Eagles the week before. So they've beaten them before. That's what you're going to need.

I think the Packers' offense, they'll score points. They'll get enough. It's if their defense can stop the run. And I think they can. I'm a little worried about their offense and the receivers they have. because I've had fantasy guys on that team the whole year.

And Watson was the first one that seemed like he was getting open in the back twice a game. Kraft was their big third down guy. And now we're, you know, it's like, hey, Matthew Golden, is this the week? And I don't think he's had more than three catches than any week. I like Matthew Golden, but I actually think they're going to need him in the Chicago game. So I don't know. I like a little ugly Saturday night. I like the four and a half at the under 50s.

Saturday night, 820 game. I like this on the East Coast. Like, I like it. It's everyone's going to be watching. Brady and Burkart. It's on Fox. I assumed it was NFL network. It's on Fox.

So we're going to get Brady and Burkart. I feel like we're going to hear Halfley's name said maybe a hundred times. And there's a lot of teams that might be looking for coaches and fan bases who are just going to be sitting on the East Coast, whether it be Giants fans, whether it'd be Titans fans, could be Raiders fans, could be Dolphins fans. You go down the list of, like, who might need a head coach. and if they put on one of these great defensive performances, they'll be talking about Halfley and like, okay, that's the head coaching guy

and it's because he did it without Micah. There's so many different parts to this game from the Green Bay side of like, we lose, we're probably done in the NFC North. These guys are going to run away with it and we finally hand the torch back to these guys. Or if we win, we keep our foot on their throats and it's another two decades of dominance,

one of those type deals. So if the Bears win this, is there any chance they could be the one seed? There is, right? Yes. Yes. Because they're 12 to one to win the NFC right now. I don't have in front of me.

I mean, they have tough schedule left. They have the Niners on a Sunday night. Niners, then. And then they have, I think, Minnesota to end the season. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I like bears plus four and a half in the under 53 and a half.

I'm in with the bears. I'm just going to mark that down. It's not officially yet. We're going to mark that one down. Titans Chiefs, Titans plus three at home against Gardner Minshu and a Chiefs team that hasn't played a meaningless game in 10 years, 9 years.

I don't even know when. They didn't make 10 straight playoffs. Yeah, 11 years. So I didn't think the Chiefs were that good to begin with. Mahomes was keeping a lot of stuff together and now he's out. And one of the things is the Titans, running game has really gotten going the last

couple weeks. They have. I don't know. This line dropped from four to three. I don't know. Titans are like the worst three. I don't know. It's tough for me to think that the Titans are going to hang with the Chiefs. I don't care who's that quarter. Really? Titans? I haven't marked down. I wanted to talk it out.

What are the Chiefs playing for right now? What do they care? You're right. You're right. I'm just, I'm curious. Like, you're wired it with that team. Why are they going to give a shit about a game in Tennessee after their season is just a better. Or just objectively better football players on the field at just about every position.

Even without Mahomes and without whoever, and it's like, if you have any pride, do you lose to the Tennessee Titans? I don't know. I know Mahomes isn't there, but these are professionals. I have games I like more. I just wanted to talk about. I wanted to get your thoughts on Chris Rousseau's comments. What did he say? Kelsey didn't talk to the media after the game.

Russo went nuts on first take. He said he's saving it for his podcast. no sports fan actually listens to that podcast. He's taken on a Travis Kelsey. It's a pretty big audience. I'm sitting there. He doesn't want to talk to him. So he can save it for new heights. That's exactly what he said, verbatim.

How much fun do you get to do TV with him? I would love that. I only do first take on Wednesdays and I'm in studio with Chris Rousseau. It's like, it's a dream. It's a dream. I thought it was interesting. I feel like there's a couple sacred cows in media. And he's saying it on ESPN. where Jason Kelsey is employed.

He's just like, no one listens to that podcast. I'm just like, oh, Simmons is going to probably has thoughts on this. Oh, that's good. Well, he's wrong on that, but I appreciate the spirit. Okay, next game. So we'll probably not do in the Titans plus three. I really. Do it.

I wish it was plus four and a half. Colts plus five and a half. If you love the Mike McCoy Titans so much, just go with it. No, I don't love them. I don't think they're very good. I just don't know. Gardner Minchu. We saw him play one series. He immediately threw the ball of the other team. I mean, he's bad. We've seen him fail in multiple teams. So that's kind of the great

equalizing. He was once your white whale. He was once your sick. It was fine. It seemed like he had a chance to have something. You loved them for a while. I did. The Raiders kind of ended it. Colts plus five and a half at home against the 49ers. I watched every play of this game last week. Colts Seahawks? Yeah, me too. Of the Colts Seahawks. Just the a really nice, really well-paced, well-coached, spirited effort

by a Colstein that really wanted it. By the way, they really need this game. Yes. And the Niners' defense, some of the stats about, like the Titans kind of...

He's mentioned it. Titans went all over, up and down the field. Yeah, so I just think that line's too high. Two variables here. So I talked to Aikman today. Hmm.

I said, give me just a thought. You know, at the end of your career, he was 34 years old. You get beat up. You get hit a couple times. What's it like the next couple days? He's like, you know, you don't feel great until Tuesday, maybe Wednesday. Hmm.

You add 10 years to that, five years removed from the game. We have no idea because it's Thursday. We're doing it. Like, is rivers okay? Like the physical toll. And I know he didn't get the crap beat out of him. Like people thought he was going to. He took two good hits.

That was about it. hits, but the 27 passes, the snaps, everything. So I know they have a long week. It's Monday night. That place is going to be rocking. It will be because they are, they know it's the season and it's also a home Monday night game, Indianapolis, great crowd. Is that enough?

Or is this like, he gave it all he had in that one thing. That's the Disney movie. They lose him. He must have been that good though. I mean, he's fine. But in a Disney movie, that's how he would have played. Make two big passes. Get them into field goal range.

They kick the field goal and then they lose on a heartbreaking field goal and it's like he goes back to his family and it's like, I gave it all I had. It was great. Now he's got to do it for three more games. His 28-year-old kid crying in the stands? Buckner, I thought, had a huge impact on Sunday.

And just their front seven just seemed pretty feisty. They're low on cornerbacks, but against this Niners team that, I mean, this Ayuk situation is bizarre. Pierceall's not playing. Yeah. I think it's too many points. I'm going to mark down Colts plus five.

I like the Colts in this game. Funneroo for it too. And FYI, kind of a kitchen sink game for them. Yeah, no. And we talked about it over text. And then you said you had a separate text chain with Hens and the boys about whether or not they should have bet against the cults because their schedule was so difficult after the sauce trade. I mean, they haven't won a game since the injury. And then now it's like, if they don't win this one, it's pretty much done.

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Home Jacksonville at Houston last two. I don't think there's a path for the playoffs from them if they lose this. So I have them marked down. Washington's plus seven at home against the Eagles. And I feel like we have this game every year. And every year Washington wins it or comes close and the Eagles are terrible in this game. And Mariotta is fine. He's been okay.

they've got most of their guys back. They hate the Eagles. These teams don't like each other. And I don't trust the Eagles at all. And it's not like the Eagles are healthy. Like a bunch of their guys are still out. Lane Johnson's probably not going to play. Yeah.

And is Dickerson playing or no? I don't know about Dickerson. Jalen Carter is not going to play. Yeah. What are we doing? I'd be pretty confident. I mean, I haven't seen the report. It might be already out, but I think Lane Johnson's out.

And I don't know. I feel like did you watch Washington, Giants at all or did that not make them? I did not. I missed that game. It's one of the worst football games you'll ever watch. Yeah, it was bad. Washington was awful too. I mean, they won, but they had one couple of nice plays to McLaurin deep and Wild Bill had a touchdown. But like, it's that team, they're done too. So I thought last week, Eagles, Raiders, and here's how I saw it happening. I'm like, Eagles fans woke up to snow. It was kind of surprising Sunday. They had to dig out their cars, annoying. Get to the stadium. One of

A clock start, first play from scrimmage, Sequin goes one yard. And I swear on the broadcast, you can hear like a smattering of booze. And then they went on to have their best game in like two years and give up 75 yards. But if they had not performed that way, I'd be doing like DefCon 5, the whole thing with the Eagles. Yeah, but who were they playing that? I know. But I think just getting that out and like doing that and dominating 31 to nothing and having the defense shut them down, having the offense. having the offense everyone get their touches everyone do everything i almost feel like

that game was important they've already been through the record like and now okay let's go kick the shit out of washington also okay i thought it was important i'm not going to mark it down i can't believe i have to pick against the pats but we're in that we're under 500 and uh ringer 107 and you got to do what you got to do the ravens are minus two and a half was the line that locked for this game against the pats I just think this is a bad spot for the Pats and the weirdest thing about this game, they don't 100% need it.

They could still win the division just by winning the last two. And this game, it's Ravens, every game now is like their seasons on the line. They're the healthiest they've been in a while. Pat still don't have Milton Williams. They still don't have Will Campbell.

The defensive stats for them, the last four weeks, especially some of the advanced stuff, is really, really rough. their ability to move the ball when they really need to. Like Diggs has disappeared the last few weeks. I know where he is. And they've gotten some home run plays from Henderson

and they're still having trouble, you know, putting games away. They only ran the ball three times in the second half. Yeah. So this line being under three, I just think is wrong with the, if it was January and I had my team back, I'm in. If I have Will Campbell and Williams for this game, I'm in. But I think this is a game where you're going to feel that a little. little bit.

Patriots fan. There's a weird Patriots at Baltimore history, too. I'm just going to say this to you. Patriots fan scale, you know, that entire run, Baltimore was the thorn in the side. I mean, everyone would say that it was Indianapolis, but truly it was Baltimore.

Even the 07 game, we shouldn't have won that Monday game. That was like a fucking miracle. And we probably would have been better off losing that game. Rex Ryan, the defensive coordinator, all that. But I think they, I think they can run the ball on the pats in this game

without Miller Williams, because you've been able to see these teams just go right up the middle and that's what the Ravens do. Yeah, and the Derek Henry shows up and you're like, oh shit, Derek Henry. Like they have Derek Henry. Look, they flex this game to Sunday night.

Ravens have lost some terrible games recently at home. I mean, that Thanksgiving night game to the Bengals is, I have family, all Baltimore people. I mean, it was as if, all right, pack it up, season's done. What are we doing? So now you get another bite at it. I thought last week was huge. shutting out the bangles,

getting the kind of vibe back. Lamar looked healthy. He looked good. I would pick the Ravens here. And I think your point is wise in that it matters a lot for Baltimore. Obviously, they only get in if Pittsburgh and them

figure their stuff out. Patriots, it's not do or die. Of course, it's a nice to have, but you don't need this to make the playoffs. You certainly don't need this for the AFC East title. I've had a pretty good feel for them this year. Like, even when they were at Buffalo,

I thought the line was too high. I really thought they had a chance. to be in that game. Last week, I was really nervous about the game with the injuries and didn't want to pick against the paths, but now we have no choice because we're way under 500. Could we do a Ravens Patriots all time? I mean, because we can go through it.

There was the Billy Cundiff game where Lee Evans drops the pass. You guys end up going to the Super Bowl. The following year, you're up early. They come all the way back, beat you in Foxborough. And then there was that same season, a Sunday night game early on where the Ravens beat the Patriots like week three in Baltimore and then there's the Ray Rice game

and the playoffs obviously, 20, whatever that was. Thanks for bringing all these up. But you guys have also gotten their number a bunch of times too. Well, the 07 game was legendary for just pulling that out of the ass. But my favorite Pat's win, non-super Bowl, I think of the entire

2010s, other than the Chiefs game. The double pass? Other than the D-4 game was that Ravens game. Yeah. Because I really do think the Ravens were better that year and the Pat's just outwitted them. Ravens were up early in that game. What, 14-0-0?

They were 14, twice. Yeah. And the Pats just, they just kind of figured out how to fuck them over. And they, remember they ran the weird, they kept trying to. And Carbos losing his mind on the sidelines.

And then the next play, you get Amandola and Edelman. Unbelievable crowd for that game. They're singing the outfield, but four minutes left out of time out. Were you in the building that day? I was in the press. No, I was watching home.

It was a great one, though. I love that game. And I feel like they haven't had a great matchup in years. It's kind of cool. Ravens Patriots, Week 16 on a Sunday night or whatever it is. Yeah, Sunday night. I'm excited. Lamar has been, there were signs of life last week.

Maybe this could be a Lamar versus May. We'll see. And the other problem with them is the tight ends, which have been an issue for the Pats all year. And this is one of the best tight end teams. Yeah. I don't like the matchup. Broncos minus three in Denver against the Jaguars.

This to me is another overvalued game. I think the Jags have patted the numbers against the bad teams. I think we both believe in this Broncos team. And I just, I'm going to go against Trevor Lawrence until he wins a game like this. And if he wins this one, hats off. This is now a new Trevor Lawrence. I'll admit it. I'll admit defeat.

But I don't see it. I just, I'm waiting for him to come out, the real Trevor Lawrence. Two weeks ago when they beat the Colts, you had an awesome, you, picked up on something that I did not pick up on. And you were, I guess, with Sal. So it was in the moment Sunday night. You're like, did you hear Trevor's press conference afterwards? And he did the whole thing about how the national media wants to talk about other teams. Oh, that nobody believes in us. They don't talk. Even in our division, you know, we're winning all these games. They don't talk about. And I'm like, oh, Bill's right. And then I talked to folks in Jacksonville,

and it's not just Trevor Lawrence. It is their identity of we're not going to get respect until we take respect and the whole thing. And this week, Sean Payton, in innocuous comment says, you know, they're doing a lot of good things. Well, you know, and I know no one sees them. They're a small market team and like Jackson, like, that's all they needed. Are you going Jacks Plus 3 here? I'm not.

I'm not. But I think, you know, I think I've said this before on your pod. Liam's, you know, 38 years old. Grant Udinski, the offensive coordinator's 29 years old. Anthony Campanelli is like this amazing jersey guy, defensive coordinator. up dude, 40 years old. The GM is 34. Like, they're just a bunch of young, like super amped up, high energy guys.

And this quarterback finally feeling the love, finally feeling confident. And that quote that you provided me, which I didn't even hear because I wasn't listening to Jaguar's press conferences, was like, oh shit. Trevor Lawrence is a little bit of some shit to him. And it was nice to hear. And then last week against the Jets, I know it's the Jets, 350 yards, five touchdowns, perfect QB rating and like afterwards just I mean they have been feeling themselves so I'm curious to see how they show up to a team that hasn't lost the game at home in two years

in the Broncos and everyone's already crowning like what are the Jaguars got this is a good one and a team that can lock down the one seed basically yes one thing I want to see with the Jags and the one of the reasons I like the Broncos is the Broncos and the Texans are the two AFC teams that if you're a receiver or a running back coming out of the back field, your eyes are in the back of your head. No doubt. Like, think about what the Texans did to the chiefs in that. They basically changed the course of the chief season with all the hits they laid on them. And same thing last week with the chiefs too, where they just got the shit kicked out of them. I want to see how the Texans respond to that if the Broncos are like, because they can do it.

They can turn it on. They can pound. They can. And I don't know if The Jags are like just a fun. We'll put up points, but if it's going to get really physical, what do you got? And then I don't know if I trust Lawrence. So we'll see. Maybe he'll stick it to me. Houston and Denver are cool in that the NFL is so, it's gone so favoring the offense and the way the rules are and the way that it's just built, the way the coaches, coach, all of it.

And then you've got Denver and Houston, two teams that are very clearly defense. first, offense second. And in this weird topsy-turvy year where every week another team is the number one team on someone's power rankings, kind of defensive team in 2025 win a Super Bowl. And I know you could say, well, Bo Nicks and Cortland Sutton are going to, Sean Payton might be an offensive coach. That is a defensive first team. And Houston is like way defense, a little bit of offense.

Those two teams are fascinating as we get to the playoffs and what they can do over the final few weeks. so you don't like Titans plus three and you don't like Washington plus seven no and you didn't like Browns plus 10 and a half and we don't want to bet on Quinn Ewers does that mean

does that mean we're left with bucks minus three Panthers taking Carolina plus three coming off a loss to Tyler Shuck they're taking the bucks with all their receivers back bucks I think bucks the bucks with the chemistry questions with Mike Evans

they're blowing a terrible game in the tunnel Blown a terrible game And the defenders yelling at each other I said it last week Worst loss All season was that game The Falcons had 19 penalties against them

Right And they lost that game at home With an eliminated Falcons team And my favorite Like Drake London Not even on the field Kyle Pitts goes for a billion yards Like terrible loss

So bounce back I gotta think they got it They have to They should All right so that's your pick That's what you're contributing but with not great conviction. Well, that doesn't make me feel good.

Tampa minus three. Sure. I don't think the Panthers are good. I'm just going to throw that out there, too. It was shocking to watch the Saints just go up and down the field on them. You were talking to McShay about it. I mean, Tyler Chuck, there's a lot to like about that guy. And he outplayed Bryce Young when it mattered.

All right. So we're going excellence for Ringer 107, brought to you with the lines from Fandall Sportsbook. As always, we're going to do old man, Philip Rivers, plus five and a half with the Colts against the Niners at home in a must-win game. Great crowd. I think that's a three-point game one way or the other. Sadly, the Ravens minus two and a half against the Pats. It's fine.

Pats can lose this game. So when the ASEs, I'm not going to sweat it out. I don't like the matchup. I don't like the injuries on the Pat's side. And I don't like the week that this game is happening. is minus three against the Jaguars. We're acknowledging the Jaguars, nobody believes in us. But I think a lot of people will be on the Jags this week.

I do too. And you could argue that line should be a little higher, considering the Broncos having lost in three months. Bucks minus three against the Panthers. It's more a pick against Carolina. And then last but not least, a little parlay, Saturday night, Bears plus four and a half with the under 53 and a half. Bill, I love those picks.

Those are, I think we ended in a good place. You talked me out of two possible stinkers. I think we're great. I don't know if House would have done that. I think house would just walk me in the traffic. Kind of want house on this. I miss house. It's great.

I know what house is asleep. There's no great. House is lying like this, snoring right now in this whole fourth quarter. That was today's Ringer 107. It's brought to you by Fandul. Don't forget, odds are subject to change.

That's it. Hey, good luck on Get Up. Try out the Peter's Pans segment that I gave you. They love fun. Peter's Pans, where you pan three things. I like that idea.

Or Peter's principles. St. Peter's. So your four prayers for the week? I like that one. What's bringing in St. Peter? That's good. I'm trying to think what

I can't... Sneaky Pete. Sneaky Pete. How about for Pete's sake? For Pete's sake. And the graphic is just you like this? Can't wait. I can't wait to watch you tomorrow in six hours.

Like grievances? Like, I can't stand officials. Like, is that what it is? It's like your version of you've been Mossed. Yes. You're like, why are you punting

on fourth and one for Pete's sake? Yes. Why are you wearing a backwards visor? Yes. All that stuff. This guy gets cleaned out

by the wide receiver who goes out of bounds and takes out his legs. Why aren't you looking at the field? For Pete's sake. Why are we talking about Danny Wolf and the Nets? We're doing a lot of visuals here.

Pitch it. Pitch it tomorrow. All right, Peter Schrager, thanks for staying up with us. Great to see you as always. You're the best, Bill. Thank you. Hey, it's Week 16,

and Fandle wants me to make some NFL predictions as we enter a crucial week of football. Ringer 107, just not enough here. Here are three Week 16 predictions using Fandul's odds. Does Miles Garrett get 1.5 sacks on Sunday and set the single season sack record against Josh Allen? The market's at plus 180 for him to do it. I would vote no on that one.

I think he gets it a week later. The AFC number one seed battle. Which of these QBs is able to throw for two plus TDs? Bowenicks minus 132 or Trevor Lawrence plus 128. I'm going Boe Nix minus 132. Longest rush in the Sunday night game. Derek Henry over under 19.5 or Trivian Henderson, 14 and a half, Anderson. Will Rivers go over under his passing prop at 150.5 against the Niners?

I am going under for old man, Phil Rivers. You can bet all these are Ringer 107 picks and so much more on Fandle player game. All right, we are back with a special part of today's episode. It's brought to by Minklob Ultra. We love Minkalob Ultra right here. As the official beer partner of the NBA, they know the best moments on or off the court

are served cold. So let's crack open a six pack because we're going to dig into the most buzzworthy NBA stuff that is happening right now and we'll do our superior play of the day as well. All right, I'm going to start here. So,

I don't want to start grim here on the Mikloa Bultra 6-pack but OKC killed the clippers tonight. OKC is the defending champs. They're 25 and 2. The clippers are now 6 and 21.

They're tied for third worst. They have to give OKC their first round pick in 26 and they have to do a first round pick swap for them 27. And as you know, I am the trade machine Picasso. And I talked about this a little bit with Zach on Tuesday. What do you do if you're the clippers? It's checkmated me. It's like in Goodwill Hunt. I was watching Goodwill Hunting with my son a couple days ago. And when nobody can do the

formula problem that he has, he leaves out in the hallway and then Will Hunting does and he solves it. And he's asking the people in the class, did you get you? guys figure this out? Did you guys solve this? And people are like, no way. That wasn't me. I think the clippers thing is like that thing. We don't have Will Hunting to come in and save this. Their only trade asset really is Zubots? And what are you getting for Zubats ultimately? And by the way, if you're trading him, your defense is going to be worse. Zach, I tried to test drive some hardened trades with him the other day. And he was just poo-pooing all of them. I don't think anyone wants Kauai at 50 million a year and never know he's going to play.

And, you know, I mentioned this to Max Cullerman the other day, especially when you're throwing the Chris Paul embarrassment. Ramona Shelburne wrote a piece about that. Every time you think this Clippers situation can't get worse, it feels like it's gotten worse. And they're so uninspiring. They're playing the Lakers at home on Saturday night. It's going to be like three-fourth Laker fans in the Intuit Dome.

I think at some point the punishment is going to come down, maybe before I'll start a weekend. That's, I think there's whispers about that. We'll see. we'll see if they if they actually do it um i just don't know what you do and it's a pretty rare situation brooklyn was in this in the mid 2010s where the Celtics had their picks and at some point they like they made a pretty creative d angel russell trade to get a pick and i don't know if the clippers are wired like that i think they seem to blindly think this is going to turn around

and yet they won't fire the coach they gave lawrence frank it seems like they gave him an extension which feels like it's, you know, a little bit of a, we have this thing happening and here's an extension. I don't know. Suspicious extension for considering that the Norm Powell trade was probably the worst trade since the Luca trade. It's just I don't know how you fix this. I just don't.

So that would be my first one in the six pack and it's depressing. I'm out of answer. I don't know how you fix the clippers Gahaw asked me my producer before is like I hope the quippers I hope you have a fix I don't and if somebody has a fix out there God bless you

but I think it has to be using Zubots and attaching him to Hardin and seeing what you can get like could Minnesota go in a tailspin and then all of a sudden be thinking about Gobert and Randall for Hardin and Zubots they're not doing that now but maybe in two weeks if they lost some games

they start thinking about it I think that's the only hope is that other teams get more desperate and start looking at your assets. But yikes. All right. Second thing on the six-pack, the Christmas games. So the last four, there's five games. I'm going to skip the first one for a second. The last four are really cool.

Spurs Thunder, which I think is the game I want to see more than any other game at all times. Dallas Golden State, sure. Golden State, what's going on with them? There are two games under 500. tonight, and I don't know what the fix is with them either, but they're playing Dallas. Flag, they're running crunch time plays for him. Davis has rejuvenated him. I still think Dallas is going to be heard from as a playing team, especially if Kyrie comes back.

So that's the third game. Houston Lakers, that's a great game. And then Minnesota, Denver, we get the Joker as the last one. So that's a fun Christmas, all the NFL games that look like they're all going to suck. But then you have the first game. And it's Cleveland, New York. And if you think your family's dysfunctional, let me bring over the calves.

Have some dysfunction at your Christmas table with the Cleveland Cavaliers who sit solemnly and solemnly on their bench as they're down 10, wondering what happened. And I went over on them on 56.5. That leads me to my third six-pack because it's possible the calves could ruin Christmas or make a trade before then.

Did the Pacers break the calves? The Cavs were awesome last year. They win, like, 64 games, 63 games, something like that. They had a long win streak. They figured out the Garland Mitchell thing. Mowgli took a step up. They seemed happy. Kenny Atkinson was getting coached the year bus.

It seems like it was a million years ago. Then they played the Pacers. Garland's hurt. Moby misses a game. The Pacers hit a couple of ridiculous shots. And by the end of this series, they're like, yeah, the Pacers are, for whatever reason, better. And the Cleveland Cavaliers have not recovered since. Here's another team that it's really hard to fix. They're 22 million over the second apron. And I bring this up because now that

the season is going on, I was thinking about this last night. I had them on a smaller TV with no sound. I'm watching the bigger TV, but I have the Cavs game going and they just are losing double figures and they're cutting the bench. Max Drews is sitting there with his new long hair. He's just saw my sitting next to a couple teammates. Then it goes to Mitchell. He looks just bummed out, the guys on the court look bummed out, and you're like, whoa, what do we do with this? Because this team can't trade. First of all, you're way over the second apron. You can only do one-for-one trades. You can only take back less money than you can send out. The second apron, so I did the math. I hope this is right. I found this on the internets. It will cost them

$163 million in second apron taxes if they just keep the number of the roster the way it is. So that would mean it would be a $400 million season for them to potentially be like a seven seed and then lose it round one. They have a couple outs. They can waive, Wade, and Porter before January 7th, saves them about $3 million. Only $19 million to go. The cap rules are so dumb that Charlotte is $21 million under the cap.

Jared Allen makes $20 million. And yet the rules say they couldn't, just trade Jared Allen to Charlotte for nothing. That is somehow illegal with the cap. Here's who they could trade them to, the Boston Celtics, who have a $22 million trade exception, who were the only team who could trade for Jared Allen and take off the second apron off Cleveland's hands. But guess what? They're not going to do that because right now there's $7.8 million under the second apron. And if they just did that trade, they'd then have to figure out how to get rid of $11.3 million, which would be Simons. They'd have to take less

money back, good luck. I can't figure out where to move Jared Allen. They could do some whittle down trades. Like they could trade Struce to Utah for Nyang, send them some picks and save $8 million.

Still doesn't get them close to getting rid of 22. They could trade Lanzo and Atlanta's trade exception. They could trade back to Miami. They have a big trade exception. That stuff that usually doesn't happen during the season. Teams aren't anxious to help out other teams. for role players.

They could trade Garland, but the one-for-one rules that they're handicapped with, they're really screwed. Like, here's a trade they could do. They could trade Garland to Washington for Chris Middleton's contract and picks, which Washington might think about,

but that would only save them $6.2 million. They'd still be way under the apron. There's, they could trade, if Boston took Allen, which I don't think they will, even with Tatum coming back, even with them having the expectations that they might actually be pretty good.

I don't think they're going back over the second apron. But if they could get under the second apron somehow, they could then do three for threes, two for twos. They could go after anybody. They go after LeBron, for God's sakes. But right now they can't do that. And that leads to the other option they have, which is the nuclear option,

which would be to trade Donovan Mitchell. And even in that case, it's really hard because they would have to get under the second apron before it made sense to get a bunch of players back that teams would have to trade to get Donovan Mitchell. So if I were the calves, I would have a team meeting and say, look, you guys seem really unhappy. I don't know what's happened to us this year, but we can't make any trades.

So this is our team. So get your shit together. Should we hire our team therapist? Let's do it. Should we all get drunk together? Should we watch the Shawshank Redemption and see if Hope is a good thing for us? We're not making trades. This is our team.

We're sorry. We're spending a lot of money on it. Can you guys play better? That's probably the answer. Anyway, get ready to spend Christmas morning with them. Fourth thing on the six-pack, the Shengun Crunch Time stuff is pretty interesting in Houston, and they lost a game tonight in OT against New Orleans

that I was watching on a TV with no sound as I watched the Rams game. I was watching a lot of basketball as I was watching the Rams game. I'm a multitasker. I know I know I'm getting older. still throwing my fastball, still watching three games at once, still got it. They go to Schengun a lot at the end of these games

to the point that I'm starting to watch the Durant body language a little bit where he's like, I'm Kevin Durant, what are we doing? And Schengun's been really good. And in Denver, the other night, which was a great game, he won the game for them

and made a couple of big plays down in the stretch. But it feels like they've tilted a little too far towards the Schengun, not far enough toward the, Amen Thompson can beat anybody out the dribble. And oh, by the way, we have Kevin Durant, who's probably going to score 35,000 points in his career, maybe more. So I would like to see them fix the calibration on that versus what I feel like

is starting to happen where it's like this is now Schengun's situation at the end of the games. I think it's really hard to run all your stuff through a center. Now, the overtime game tonight came down to Reed Shepard missed a couple wide open threes that would have sent in the second OT. But I mentioned this. because I'm watching these Rockets games going, I can't believe they're not giving it to KD more. And I think what's getting lost in this KD season

and just in this season in general, and maybe we just take older guys for granted. But KD's having one of the better old guy seasons of all time, and so is Steph Curry. I went and looked it up. So what's the definition of an old guy? To me, it's like when I was growing up, John Havlicek was playing when he was like 37, 38.

He seemed really, really old. And then Kareem in the 1985 finals when they beat the Celtics, games that I went to, sadly. Kareem was all these huge bald spot in the back of the side. I don't think he had shaved this head yet. Maybe he had at that point. But regardless, he was just like old guy, Kareem. And then he just annihilated Robert Parrish in the finals.

And it was notable because he had won the finals MVP in 1971 with the Bucks. And then he won it again in 1985 with the Lakers. It was like, oh, my God, 14 years span between. finals MVP's this is amazing he's so old well curry's 37 averaging 29.6 a game before tonight and kd is 37 averaging 24.8 and i mentioned this because only a handful of the guys have ever been 37 years older and average 20 points a game lebron multiple times step Curry, Durant, Kareem,

Carl Malone, Michael Jordan on the Wizards. That's the entire list. And with Durant, I don't think anybody feels like he's old. You would never say, he's getting up there, he's getting old. Currie's starting to seem a little creaky, not that he's not

still great, but he's wearing it. Especially at the end of these games, they're like, man, Steph seems exhausted. I don't know if Steph could do this for six months. Durant just seems exactly the same. And this year, 24.8, 5 rebounds a game. A couple other old guys that still kept it.

Nash on the 2012 Sons was still 11 assists a game. Chris Paul and the 23 sons, he was fine, 14 and 9. And then Stockton did it for a long time, 13 and 8. But I was thinking about my Mount Rushmore for, or my starting five for old guys. LeBron, obviously, Kareem. I think Steph, KD, or Carl Malone, right, you know,

I've always tried during my career as a voice and a writer and a podcaster to discount Carl Malone anytime I could, including creating the 42 Club. That was the way to get him out of the most. 42 Club points, assists, rebounds in the playoffs, 12 games or more. I made it 42 because it was the way to cut out Carl Malone the most times. so obviously I'm going to cut him out here and then

let's go go John Stockton just so we have a point card so Stockton LeBron now Curry's my point card do I really have to put Carl Malone in there he's pretty good in those Utah seasons

I hate it fine Carl Malone LeBron Steph Curry Carl Malone Kevin Durant Karri Maddo Jabar we'll go a big lineup but I think that would be my

old guy starting five Kevin Durant secretly old 2007 draft it's a million years ago Seattle had a team in 2007 last

oh fifth one for the six pack still doing this Mickelobotra what's the best location for the NBA Cup semifinals and finals because I don't think

anybody enjoys Vegas I didn't want to go I got I could have gone on Saturday night, could have gone on Tuesday. I'm kind of over Vegas. When they changed the blackjack to six to five, I took it as a personal affront. On top of it, it's just, I don't know, maybe I've just gone there too many times, but the thought of just coming in to watch some basketball with some half-ass crowds, I couldn't get behind. But then the games turned out

really good, and I was actually mad that I didn't go to the San Antonio OKC game. The finals were great. But I was thinking, like, as a lot of people were, what would be a better location? Because I think we're good with Vegas. We go there for Summer League. We don't need to go there for the NBA Cup too. Get Vegas to fuck out. You need it to be a place that you know you can get the arena. People are talking about college stuff. So like you do the semis at Duke and you do the finals in UNC. I'm not against that for one year. Indiana University gets the semis. The Pacers stadium gets the finals. That would be fun. The only problem is that the Pacers got into finals than home field advantage uh you can do barkley semis msg finals fine still an advantage for the

nicks won't be an advantage for the nets because it's still never been the NBA cup the two i settled on i like the idea of a kentucky louisville combo and not just because it would be great for jay kyle man um Kentucky for the semis and then louisville for the finals or vice versa louis for the semis, Kentucky for the finals. Kentucky, because of the derby, kind of built, you know, for in either venue to accommodate, like, big crowds. So I thought that was fun. But here's where I've landed.

And I think this is a really good idea. And as usually I'll be the only one who sticks up for the good people of Seattle, where I have to do a live rewatchables at some point this spring, because I love Seattle or a live basketball podcast or something because those guys had their team taken away in it, and I'm still pissed about it. And now that team is probably going to be the best team of the 21st century. Fuck.

Seattle semifinals, Vancouver Finals. We go Pacific Northwest in two cities where they took teams away from. And I think that's the answer. Everybody loves going to Seattle. Everyone loves going to Vancouver. If you talk to anybody who covered the league in the 90s or the early 2000s, they always said like the best part, any road trip they had when they were covering a team was the Portland, Seattle.

Vancouver, Pacific Northwest, was always their favorite. So let's bring it back. Seattle and Vancouver. I vote for that next year. Get up the semis in Vancouver and the finals in Seattle or vice versa. I don't really care. I like paying homage to two cities that lost their teams for no reason in the fan base. Vancouver just got fucked from the get-go with everybody running those teams. And Seattle got run over by the OKC owners, David Stern and Howard Schultz, who own Starbucks and has a cajillion dollars and was a complete

coward and sold the team to people from OKC who were going to move it and he probably knew it and didn't care. So let's at least give them the NBA Cup. That's my fifth thing. Last but not least, two teams that I think are looking pretty good that I would just watch

from a league past standpoint going forward. The Hornets, Miller's back. Lamello played tonight. I shouldn't be excited when Lamello plays, but that's where we're at with Lamello. But they put up 66 points in 17 minutes against Atlanta, held on late for a win.

Really fun style. They're one big guy away. They need like a rebounder or somebody who can have their hands up. I really wish they could just trade for Jared Allen. I wish the CBA was better. But they have all their own first. They have a 2007 Dallas first, top two protected. And they have a Miami first that becomes unprotected at some point during the decade

because of the Terry Rozier trade, which the league refuses to acknowledge, but shady. So good coach, Charles Lee, good new owners, respected front office all of a sudden, and I just like the spot they're in, and I love watching them. The other team, the New Orleans Pelicans,

all of a sudden, shit's going down. They beat Houston tonight, which is just incredible. Houston's good. Queen, Murphy, Herb Jones, pools coming off the bench now. All of a sudden, they have what looks looks to be an NBA team. And I mentioned this because if I was Atlanta,

they have the New Orleans pick, the pick that we all fit. The New Orleans has the worst record in the West, six and 22. And one of the top five worst records. I don't think it's going to stay that way. Now that they have everybody back, whether Zion plays or not,

I think, you know, there was a John Ewing always posts, like, the spreads for different things. I like following him for gambling. And he had the NBA records against the spread. and New Orleans had, like, I think the best record against the spread or one of the best records. So they're constantly covering, they're losing close games, and they're about to have a breakthrough.

And if I was Atlanta, I would trade that pick right now. Atlanta has the Porzingis expiring. They have a huge trade exception. They have a good team. They got to figure out the Tray Young thing, but they probably need one more wing shooter. This is their chance to get somebody really good. I think they should go after Janus. I've been saying that from day one.

But I would put that New Orleans pick on the table because two months, from now, I really genuinely think New Orleans will not be one of the five worst teams in the league. They have too much talent unless they go the other way and they trade Tray Murphy and they start getting rid of guys. But I don't know if they will. And I will say that Pelicans crowd tonight, granted, I was watching without sound, but everybody was standing and going nuts the whole game. So keep fighting for your team because I think you're going to have to. Anyway, Elena, listen to me trade the pick that's the last thing on the six pack uh if you want even more you can grab yourself a pack of micha lobe ultra right here ultra getting you closer to the

action with the chance to win exclusive prizes including courtside tickets and more michelope ultra spires worth playing for enter now at michelope ultra dot com slash courtside michelow ultra courtside 25 26 no purchase necessary open to u.s residents 21 plus begins on october 1st 2025 ends on June 30, 20, 26, multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobotra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. That's it for the podcast today.

Thanks to Gajon and Eduardo as well. Thanks to Peter Schrager for staying up late. Don't forget about the new music box, about the counting crows. It's great. Go check it out on HBO Max. Don't forget, we did two rewatchables this week. We did the short thing on Wednesday,

and we did high fidelity on Monday if you want stuff to listen to over the weekend. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night. Obviously going to be live with Sal. Coming off, Ravens Patriots, see you then. or visit rg dash help.com call 88879 7777 or visit cc pg.org slash chat in connecticut or mdgamblinghelp org in maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800 327 50 50 for 24 7 support

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