The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Shocking Knicks/Wolves Trade, KAT Predictions and the NPBA Is Here With Austin Rivers

Episode Date: September 28, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Austin Rivers to discuss the shocking trade news of Karl-Anthony Towns heading to New York and Julius Randle and Donte DiVincenzo to Minnesota! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Austin Rivers Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, the rare Saturday afternoon out of nowhere podcast off a pretty crazy NBA trade. Next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this.

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He's going to be popping on this podcast in one second to talk about a pretty bizarre out of nowhere Nick's Timberwolves trade that could have

dramatic ramifications for the 2024-25 NBA season. We're going to be talking about it in one second. Don't forget, you can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We're going to be talking about it in one second. Don't forget, you can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel

where we're going live on Sunday night with Cousin Sal, breaking down week four NFL, doing guess the lines for week five. You can join us on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel live. All right, let's get to it. Bring in Pearl Jam. Here's Austin Rivers. Let's go.

All right. We were taping this Saturday afternoon Pacific time. There was a huge NBA trade last night. I was at a dinner party. I was having drinks. My phone started blowing up. I'm like, what the hell? I see the trade and all of a sudden text after text. And I'm just going, I'm not doing this. I'm putting my phone away.

I'm going to read about this tomorrow. And then was reading about it today a little bit. And I'm like, what the fuck was this trade? And I'm battling on it. You texted me and you're like, yeah, what the fuck was this trade? And we just decided to hop on the pod and talk about it. Austin Rivers is here. You have a special bonus.

You played with Towns. But so we'll go. I want quick question. And then I have big picture eight questions for you. But quick question. Now that you've sat with it for a few hours, do you feel like one or the other won this trade? If I had to choose, I would say the Knicks.

Okay. Tell me why. At the end of the day, I do think Carl Anthony Towns is an upgrade from Julius Randle. I think Julius Randle is a fabulous player, a really good player. Uh, but Carl Anthony Towns is,

I think a different level. And then you add to that, um, his abilities, I think align with what they need in terms of spacing the floor. You have a big, that's going to be able to do that. The pick and pop game.

I think with Jalen Brunson is going to be fantastic. Carl's highly skilled, uh, doesn't need the ball in his hands a lot. He's gonna shoot or he's gonna make a move right away yeah i think julius is a guy that you throw the ball down to and you gotta watch him take his time you know he takes time to get his baskets he needs rhythm dribbles multiple jab fakes multiple pump fakes it's almost like it's tiring watching him score you actually commend him for having the conditioning to do it uh right but uh so i think that's what they wanted to do.

And I think they made that decision when they paid OG. Okay. You know, when they paid him $200 million, they're like the same position, but they're different types of players. So they're saying kind of, they're going that route.

Cause he's not a three. I don't like OG at the three. I like him as an undersized kind of four, especially in today's NBA. So yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. I think they would win. I get why people like Dave and Shinzo. I'm going the's interesting. I don't know. I think they would win.

I get why people like Dave and Shinzo. I'm going the other way. I'm zagging. And I don't even know if I feel like I'm not going to be like mark this down

put it in magic marker. I'm right on this. But as I sat with it for a few hours I actually liked it more from Minnesota because they got out of that town's money.

And I don't know if the way the team was constructed with the ownership influx, with how much money they're going to have to spend on Edwards, they have to keep Gobert, just in general, then to pay Towns $220 million for four years when I don't know what your ceiling is for him.

And now you flip him into Randall for a year. You get DiFincenzo, who can be your sixth man, who's a proven guy who can finish games. And you have more flexibility. Nas can get the town's minutes. And it just makes sense to me. But the Randall piece is the part I can't figure out. Okay, so I'm leaning Minnesota.

You're leaning Knicks. But I want to go through. If I have to. Yeah, if I have to. And by the way, I don't, I'm not saying like, don't put that a magic marker. That was just my lead.

All right, eight questions. First one. Why now for the Knicks? Why right before training camp? Where was the patience? Because I remember I was talking to a Knicks fan like three days ago, Knicks buddy of mine. And I'm like, I kind of like that the Knicks are saying

we don't know what our roster is yet. We lost Hartenstein. We might not have Robinson for three months. We don't really have a center, but we don't have to figure this out now. It's 82 games plus four rounds in the playoffs. Let's see how this goes and we'll make a move. And now all of a sudden,

they're just, this is it. They're pot committed to now this roster. So why now? What happened? I think the only thing you could hang your hat on in this sense would be what other big

are we going to be? I think Carl was made available and they're probably thinking what other big are we going to get of this guy's caliber? Right. So you're looking at

like the Vucevic. Yeah. It's like, this is the best case scenario right now. We're going to wait until the season and hopefully get someone

better than Carl. Carl's like probably the third, fourth best setter in the league. So it's like, you know, at this point, you're's like, this is the best case scenario right now. We're going to wait until the season and hopefully get someone better than Carl. Carl's probably the third, fourth best setter in the league. So it's like, at this point, you're just like, let's move somebody. I don't think DiVincenzo was a guy they wanted to make a part of the deal. But that was the only way it was going to get done. That was my feeling as well. I'm thinking, on the one hand, this deal is there for Minnesota in January. They're still doing it because they can get off the town's money. The only way it's not there in January is

if Minnesota comes out like gangbusters, Dillingham's good right away. They're like 24 and five after 29 games. They're like, yeah, we're actually not going to mess with this. My guess, and I don't know, and I asked around, I was trying to find out, and I still feel like my bet would be New Orleans, but my guess was another team was creeping around towns and it became a shit off the pot thing with the Knicks. They're probably talking for a couple of weeks with the Knicks and Minnesota saying, we're not doing this without DDV. He's got to be in it. Nick's like, well, we can't do that. We'll put, what about Robinson? We'll do Robinson and Randall. We'll throw whatever. They're like, no, we want DDB. Like, well, we can't do it. So then maybe around Wednesday, Thursday, you get New Orleans. Maybe they're like, hey, Brandon Ingram.

And we have picks. And can we get Towns? Because they don't have a center either. Maybe it's the Clippers. Maybe it's Houston offering a three for one. I don't think it was Golden State because I don't think Golden State wanted to be in the town's business.

But does that make sense to you that maybe a second team or maybe they use somebody as a stalking horse to make the Knicks do that trade? That's all it takes. Yeah. All it takes is for one other person

to like you or have interest in it. You know what I mean? And then suddenly it's, now it's, okay, now we got a war here. We got to make a decision here. He might go to New Orleans tomorrow.

I heard New Orleans is talking and things are progressing. I mean, that's like the language that happens in the front office. It's always those type of words. People just kind of make a decision. I would have liked them to go to the season and just seen what worked, what didn't, who fit in, who didn't. Devin Chinzo is a very underrated loss.

I don't think people understand the shooting he provided. The Knicks, I know he's a good hustle player. I know he made all the little things. That's great. And those are not overlooked things. But they have a guy like Josh Hart who does that. The difference is no one on that team can shoot the ball like DiVincenzo. Especially after last year where he was shooting it. Not only where, how he shoots.

He's a catch and shoot guy. Catch and shoot. Quick shot. McHale's a rhythm shooter. Josh Hart's not a shooter. He does all the other things. In terms of spacing, that concerns me. They're two guard spot. Josh Hart's going to start. You've got to hope Josh shoots above 37%, 38% there.

They're going to need him to be around that mark. But they would say Towns would be the extra spacing because they weren't going to have a center that's spacing, so that's the switch. For sure, and that's the upgrade. That's where they get that, right? Yeah. So that's why I said the Knicks kind of...

When you told me to choose, I went the Knicks side just due to the fact that at least... You didn't love it, though. I don't love it. I don't love it if I had to pick. Can we talk about DDB for a second? Because that's such a big part of this trade. I'm so glad you said that. He was 18 a game and 43% three-point shooting last year.

Crunch time guy, fearless. Proved that he can play big minutes and big games with big states on the road or at home, right? Wasn't like anybody else they had. And I think it's a huge loss for them, not to mention RIP the Villanova four. I had this as the third question. Like, we didn't even get to see

the four Villanova guys together. We just saw their pictures next to each other. That was it. Crazy. That's how I know. And just based off of Carl Anthony Towns' reaction, you know, the dot, dot, dot, you know, I think both sides were stunned

that this happened. You know, we've seen all of this hoopla around Villanova having this, pretty much the Villanova Knicks, all those guys have a history of high success, obviously at the college level. They got a coach that seems in line with how they play and who they are, Thibodeau. And a real chemistry that you have

when you've played with dudes that you grew up with. I thought that was really special, those three guys. If you put me and my four college dudes together that I won a national title with on an NBA team, man, we're going to be playing like it's, you know what I mean? Like that's going to be natural from day one. So that's, it was disappointing to hear that he's in that. And then he's the best shooter on the team. So, you know, again, they got Carl Anthony Towns, which is great.

But like, man, if I'm guarding Josh Hart and Brunson's right here on the top of the key where he likes to operate, he likes to operate on his one on one. I'm right there in load side, man. Like, yeah, you got to you got to pass the Josh. You know, where before I'm like hugged up on Devin Chinzo. If I gave him one second, that ball is launched. You know what I'm saying? At a high clip. That's a big deal. You know, they lost a lot.

But on the flip side, they had no center. And I don't know if we can make that point strong enough. They must have really felt like Robinson. You know, it's like, oh, it could be two months. Like in NBA time, two months could be six months. We're doing this with Porzingis now. They're like December. Now they're like, might be November.

And then it's like, oh, it could be February. You just don't. It's like a three- month range or whatever date. So they were going to have to play basically Randall and Ananobi at center. Got Randall in a contract year. Now playing out of position who seemed unhappy anyway. And that goes back to the, this question of where was the patience? Why now?

Yep. I feel, and you know, I might've, might've heard a couple of things too about this. I feel like there was some real chemistry concerns with Randall. Bringing him in as kind of the ugly stepchild of this Villanova 4 team, and he's over there, and he's underpaid by the fact that he's a top 50 guy. He's going to have to play out of position. Brunson's going to have the ball all the time. And they must have not liked something, right?

That's fair. Well, it's like, you know, it's always hard for a player, especially a star player, when things don't go to plan. And the plan was never for Brunson to be the best player. I mean, when they traded for him,

they thought he was going to be a good player. I don't think anybody thought Brunson was going to be this level of a player where he's like an MVP candidate in the top point the best player. I mean, when they traded for him, they thought he was going to be a good player. I don't think anybody thought Brunson was going to be this level of a player where he's like an MVP candidate and a top point. You know what I mean? Could he be a top three guy and an excellent team? Yeah. And now we have these answers where before people thought they were crazy for giving him a hundred million. So now we're here where he has a new friendly contract that he did, which was crazy. But this guy's the guy. Julius has had to take a natural backseat.

He misses games last year. OG plays. They go like 23 and four, some crazy number. I don't know what it was. So it's like they have this success without him. And it reminds me of the Boston Kyrie thing. They were really good without him. So when he came back, people were like, we don't really know if we want him. We have young guys. Yeah yeah what is this team now this is weird and then they pay og who i know is like a three four tweener but it's like 200 million man you know that was a decision right then and there where they're like this is kind of where we're headed you know if i if i'm a two guard and someone pays like a another scoring guard 200 million i'm like well what's their plans for me right i mean like long term they keep them both of us you know like who's finishing the game are we playing small no we can long-term, they keep them both of us. You know, like who's finishing the game?

Are we playing small? No, we can't play small. We can't play both of us together with Josh. We have no shooting. So it's like, I,

it was a decision right then and there. And again, I think they panic. Like you said, someone might had an interest in, in Carl. And they're like, yo,

we need a center. We need a center now. Carl's the best available. And by the way, Carl's a really good player. We got to lose Devin Shinto. We got to lose him. Maybe we could figure out some shooting. really good player. If we got to lose DiVincenzo, we got to lose him. Maybe we could figure out

some shooting. They got Big Bride. They got some other guys that could shoot the ball. You could always kind of maybe find shooting here and there. After all,

they did find DiVincenzo. No one thought he could shoot like that before he came to New York. So, you know, I think you get Carl available. Fundamentally, they're looking at

last year's team and they're like, Towns replaces DiVincenzo, basically. DiVincenzo and Hartenstein. And then Bridges replaces nobody. Bridges is just this added piece. So I guess Bridges would replace

DDV and then Towns replaces Hartenstein and both of those guys are better than the guys replacing. Now, they gave up every asset they had to get to that point. But fundamentally, that's what it is. That's why I go to New York. Well, the thing is, theoretically, it's like this is one of those theoretical teams now

where you look at them and you go, man, shooting everywhere. They're kind of built like the Celtics, right? Two really good two-way rings, a stretch five who can actually shoot 40%, somebody who can handle the ball in crunch time and they can run the offense through. And there's just threats everywhere of Josh Hart, unless he just goes sideways with his three. Yeah.

Defensively, their wings, like you said, man, that is to have Mikel, Josh, and OG all out there at the same time on the floor. When you talk about 50-50 balls and rebounds and all that, they're going to dominate. Because that's what those guys do for a living. You know what I mean?

They're going to be a very... This is a Tib... This is a Tibido dream team if I've ever seen one. You know what I mean? Well, except for the nightmare of coaching towns again. Because those guys didn't like each other.

That's also interesting too. This dynamic of him back with the... I mean, especially after... I play for the Knicks, I play for Tibbs, and I play with Carl. The fit is unique. That's going to be interesting. I wouldn't say this is Peaches and Herb reunited.

Just a lot of love on stage. Just a lot of romance. I think this is... There's going to be a lot of good acting. I talked to Carl. We hashed things out a couple of years ago. You know, we kept it between us, but I think we're in a really good place.

Like what else is Tibbs going to say? Yeah, I hated coaching him and we fought all the time. We did, you know, Carl was young and immature and I was on his ass all the time and we never really clicked. But now he's older. Like what else are you going to say?

Now he's older. Maybe he's more mature. You know, personality wise, they don't even like, uh, just knowing both of them. They just don't even, that doesn't make, but again, like you said, man, they're going to play the faces. That's the understatement of the century. The Towns personality and the Tips personality. I'm going to say, what do those two guys have in common?

It's complete opposites. Polar opposites. But you like Towns. I think he's a nice guy. I think he's vastly misunderstood. I get what's frustrating about him. Some of the things he does in the game as a coach, you want to pull your hair out. Some decisions he

makes, the fouling, some of the stuff you do, you're just like, Carl, why? It's like the same thing over and over and over. The fouling 35 feet from the basket when he already has four fouls and he just crashes into somebody. He has a history of just the silly fouling amongst some other things. But it's overlooked. He's the worst silly

fouler. He's the ghost of silly fouling. I don't know an NBA history who's been worse than him. With timing, the dumbness of the foul, the consistency of it. But we overlook it due to the talent. You know what I mean? He's so good. He is so talented.

He is so fucking good, bro. But he's one of those guys that we see on Twitter 25 years from now. Carl Anthony Towns was a problem. He shot 40%. And it's like Carl Anthony Towns was a problem. He shot 40% and it's like, yeah, he was a problem, but he was also a problem if you're trying to win the title. So that leads to the second question.

You got to clean up some stuff. My second question was, Carl Anthony Towns in New York City with Knicks fans. Is there a more exciting NBA subplot right now? Because this could go

every direction. Either way. I'm going to go for him because he's good. If that dude laces him up, you know, one thing they'll appreciate is if you play good,

you know what I mean? If he's out there shooting 40%, dropping 20 a night, they're going to love Carl. They're going to love Carl. There are going to be times where they're, you know,

Carl's going to have to be prepared to play in that type of atmosphere. You know what I mean? He's a different type of guy emotionally, personality-wise. He's been in Minnesota his entire career. This is a huge stage for him. This is a different stage. You were always on the young

bad team that was up and coming, and then last year, y'all really got there. But now you are thrown on a team that's like, we're trying to win right now with a coach that expects right now. The coach historically, we know you and him weren't the greatest. That's an understatement. And now you're being with him again on the biggest Broadway show in basketball sports. I mean, this is what it is.

So it's like, it is a very interesting dynamic. I mean, well, on the one side, incredible situation for him, right? Because conceivably in towns, I think I've probably been of anybody who has a relatively big platform, probably the most frustrated with him. Rosillo might be number one. I maybe I'm number two, but just the talents there. And you just,

he's one of those. When's he going to get it? When's he going to get it? And there were real signs for last year, right? But then you look at him with this next team, the best version of him is as a stretch five on a team that can then handle

some of the rebounding and some of the defense for him so he doesn't have to be a traditional center, right? Yep. That's the Knicks. Ananobi can really help. Ananobi can in some ways

almost be like the surrogate center with some bigger guys and guard some big dudes. Or you have the pick and roll piece with Brunson. Yeah. It's just a better situation than putting him with rudy gobert just this yeah um and then the shooting and the spacing

and if he can ever figure out some sort of pick and roll thing with brunson you've got that yeah bigger stage like you said it's a bigger stage that you can't compare minnesota to new york city you know York City. Every single game is like a playoff game in Minnesota that he's going to play in New York. And if he's good, the fans are going to love him. If he starts doing weird town stuff,

he's going to become super polarizing. It happened to Randall, and it'll be, I think, worse. And Randall was not exactly Mr. Popularity. Which is crazy. And this just tells you the amount of pressure it is to play for that city. What was Randall? 26-7 a night? Right.

This is a guy putting up some phenomenal numbers for you guys, man. Like Knicks fans, I mean, just the general idea of like, they hated a guy who gave them 25 a night. You know what I mean? Like that concept, it's hard to like in player terms, you just start thinking like, wow. You know what I mean? Like that concept, it's hard to like in player terms, you just start thinking like, wow, you know what I mean?

Like the pressure of that. I mean, Julius is probably relieved in some ways. Probably like, let me get out of here, go play somewhere else.

Like this has not been great for me. I've had great moments. You know what I mean? I've really broke out my shell here. This is where it came together for me as an

NBA star. You know, in some ways he probably is going to look at New York. You have to look at his success if you're Julius. Before you were in New Orleans and LA trying to find your way success if you're Julius. Before, you were in New Orleans,

in LA, trying to find your way. It wasn't really working. Then you go to New York, you become an all-star. So it was very pivotal for him to have a stage to do that. You get to do that in New York. And now he probably gets away from that

because it's a little toxic at this point. I had some rational Knicks fans in my life who were like, I just don't like him. I don't like the faces he makes. I just don't like him. I don't like the faces he makes. I just don't like the ball stopper. Yeah, Julius. I don't like the look on his face.

I think he's a black hole. I don't get it. I don't think he's a winning player. And then when he got hurt and they played better without him, all the people who felt that way were like, see, I was telling you the whole time. Just sometimes you're one injury away from being great. And we had that injury.

And I just... They needed him in the playoffs. They did. They did need him in the playoffs. And they were down to four players. They needed him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brunson had to do a lot at that point.

And he could have used Julius. But you know what? I'm glad you said the ball stopper comment. Because I'm a fan of Julius's game. You know, he's a very talented player. Hardworking guy. One of the hardworking players I ever played with. You know, he's a very talented player, hardworking guy, one of the hardworking players I ever play with. But his style of play, like you said, man,

he takes his time. You know, he is, I don't want to call him a black hole, but like, listen, he's a scorer. It's called, they're all black holes. They're all ball hogs. All the best scorers in the leagues are, right? Any guy that's averaging about 22 points a game

is a ball hog, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like just for the most part, unless you're like a Nikola Jokic type guy who plays in a whole different way. Everybody else, they get the ball and they require a lot of dribbles and a lot of time.

And Julius is definitely one of those guys, right? Like Brandon Ingram is another one of those guys. Certain guys. And that's why when you put them in the international, when the ball has to move and the flow is different, those guys really struggle. And that's why this for Minnesota, bro.

I don't know. I'm going to let you ask your questions because that might be one of them. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, two more things on towns. First of all, the contract, 49.5 this year, 53.1, 57.1, 61.0 player option. So to say the Knicks are pot committed

would be an understatement. And they got Bridges coming. Bridges is going to be basically a free agent in 26 and he's going to be another 40 minutes. So this is like, they've traded on their picks. Yeah, Dolan. He's going for it. So we do the Ringer 100, right?

Where we everybody ranks, we aggregate the rankings. And I had Towns, this last list i just handed in towns was 32 on my list 32nd best player in the league randall had 45th okay and dante was 93rd so they basically took 45 and 93 and their last detroit pick that's not even 90 who knows if that's even ever be a first rounder to move up to 32. Right.

So you look at that and you go, well, that's not, but that's not why they did it. They did it because of the shooting and because they needed a center. And because theoretically, this should be an awesome team. I just, the question for me that everyone loved that Knicks team last year, the overachieving such a tips team. Oh, the Villanova guys. And now you bring Bridges in. Everybody's like, this is great.

Don't do anything else. I love what we're doing. Let's not panic. And now they've done another thing. And now, if that team doesn't look like last year's team, and it's a little choppy,

people are going to be like, why the fuck did they do all this? I like last year's team. Yeah. A lot of pressure, especially on Carl. A lot of unfair pressure. I mean, it's called for what it is. And it's hard, especially on Carl. A lot of unfair pressure. I mean,

it's called for what it is. And it's hard to say unfair when he's getting paid that much, but they're expected to be really good right away. When is it unfair? How much, how many million dollars per year?

You said 60. He's a 49.5 this year. So it might be mildly fair. Fair point. A lot of pressure though. Well, and also a guy that we have wondered about. Actually, let's take a break because I have this. I wanted to talk about the career moment for him.

So one quick break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too.

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we're ready for you. Visit td.com slash small business match to book an appointment with one of our advisors. All right, we're talking about Carl Anthony Towns. This is such a fascinating career moment for him. And this happens sometimes in the NBA, right? Like Bridges gets traded from the Nets to the Knicks. I don't really have any questions about Bridges. I know what kind of player he is. I think he's a winning player. We've seen him succeed on a finals team. We've seen him at least try to hold the forward on a bad team, but he's probably more meant to be on as a third best guy on a finals team or a team like this current Knicks team. I don't have any more questions about him.

Towns had bad questions his entire career. And that Minnesota team hit a point during the playoffs where it was like, shit, they figured this out. They have this crazy size defense on the wings. I remember doing a podcast about this team has a chance to be the best defensive team in 20 years. Now all of a sudden they've blown it up. And Towns comes in as this guy who just is going to be this

20 years from now Carl Anthony Towns was a problem social media guy but maybe he could also still be really good and maybe he could be the second best player in a title team we saw this happen with Andrew Wiggins Andrew Wiggins was the second best player in the Golden State Warriors

who won the title which gives me hope for Towns but I wouldn't bet on it Wiggins was the second best player on the Golden State Warriors who won the title, which gives me hope for Towns, but I wouldn't bet on it. Wiggins adjusted his game, though. I mean, especially, I mean, look at the growth in his game, the arc. He went from being like a guy who just didn't really know how to play basketball, scored the ball in Minnesota,

really like, wasteless points, you know, those type of points. Yeah, 20 shots a game. Yeah, to where he's playing efficient basketball, he's like the third, fourth option some games, some games the second option some games not defensive rebounding what he did to luca i mean like those series after series after series even jalen and tatum the way he was guarding those guys you know that's why we've been kind of harsh on him the past year or two we're like what happened man like it looked like you figured it out. What's different now? Just be that guy. But yeah, I

really hope Carl can put something together, but I feel like people have been so hard on him. I get it. I know he gets paid a lot. I know this. People attack him, his personality, the whole nine yards. You know what I mean? I just want the guy to go somewhere. It looked like you nailed it right on the head. At one point,

man, last year in the playoffs, we were watching them like, I don't know if anybody's going to beat this team. I was like, they might be able to beat Boston. They look incredible. When they beat Denver, I was like, this team looks insane right now. They're all blocking shots and rebounding and running the floor. They're all long and athletic. The way they're guarding Jamal Murray, I'm like, bro, this team is

they are good. Good God. You know what I mean? They just had that weird series versus Dallas and certain things got exposed, especially in the pick and roll. You know, Luka picked that team apart,

man. And I think that was like the final straw for this experiment where people were like, yo, we did have a great year. We got to, let's see if we can make something shake here

between the two bigs. One of them got to go. You know? And Gobert doesn't have the kind of trade value to get Randall. He doesn't have, you're not going to get the return. You're not going to get the return. You're not going to get the return. Exactly. So I think Carl was the guy.

And he's always been that. He's been dealing with that. This is just interesting right now with Julius Randle. Can we talk about the Minnesota? Yeah. Well, I had one last thing on Towns. This is a legacy of the Knicks that predates when you were alive

and even before your dad got into the league. We're going back to the 70s with Spencer Haywood and Bob McAdoo and through Stephon Marbury, Larry Johnson. The legacy of this franchise and one of the reasons they haven't won a title since 1973 is over and over again, they get seduced by these expensive superstars where it's like, well, maybe this will be the city and the team for him. And Towns is kind of like that. This is a 1976 Knicks move where you talk yourself into the glass half full version of a guy that if it doesn't work out, you're fucked. And I understood why they made the trade. I see it. But they could also be fucked if this doesn't work out because there's no second home for him.

If this bombs in New York City and now you're talking about, look at Zach Levine right now. Look at Brandon Ingram right now. With one year left on his deal, they can't find a suitor for him. It's become harder and harder to trade these expensive guys

when there's a fire sale sign on them. So this kind of has to work out. And the history of the Knicks is not great with this. Maybe they'll be able to change it. Yeah. You know what I mean. No, 100%. Sometimes the history in the skeletons

becomes part of the DNA. It's weird. It's an energy thing. That's the only thing I can come up with. You felt it in the Clippers. Like the fucking energy and DNA around the Clippers overcame the Clippers. It just felt like no matter how good we were, something was going to

hold us back. Whatever that is. I don't know. Something wasn't going to work out. Someone was going to get into it. I totally understand what you're saying. This is definitely, if we're talking about the frustrating part of being a Knicks fan. This is what Stephen A and all these guys yell about every time. As good as they get,

it's like, even like you just said a couple minutes ago, they got Mikel, and everyone's like, okay, we're good. We're good now. What a fun team.

I love it. We can work with this. We'll see how Julius and OG, if it gets weird, then we can address it then. But like, let's throw these guys out there and let's figure it out.

And then, like, they make this trade. It's like, here we go again. Is this going to work? Like, because now we're here. Steven Chinzo was a big part of this team. He's gone. Julius, again, was a guy, even you can say whatever you want, he's put in 25 a night.

So it's just like, this is a big risk. Carl, like we said, is a personality. Is it going to work with him and Tibbs first and foremost, let alone the environment of playing in the Knicks? Well, now he's got Steven A. He's got W. Fan. He's got a way bigger spotlight with the Knicks thing. And then if it doesn Stephen A. He's got W. Phan. He's got a way bigger spotlight with the Knicks thing. And then if it doesn't go

well, who are they going to blame? I guarantee he'll be the number one person who gets blamed if the season doesn't go well. They're not going to blame the Villanova guy. Brunson's the most popular athlete in the city. They're going to love Bridges and Ananobi. After the $113 million giveback,

he's going to get a statue out there. If they win a championship, Brunson's going to get a statue. Yeah, well, I just hope they don't do forensic accounting

of Brunson's checking account. If it was really $113 million, it can't be that much because he can get out of there after two years and maybe upgrade it after that.

Yeah, there's some stuff. After two years. All right. Minnesota. Better, worse, or different? If it's one of those three. I'm going with different too. Yeah, they're different.

I don't know if they're better or worse yet. Definitely different. Yeah, I can't say they're worse because Julius is no scrub, man. Julius is a really good player. And then you add Devin Chinzo to the fact that they got another two-way player to an already really good defensive team.

Now you got the Kiels, you got Nas, you got Jada McDaniels, you got Ant who can really defend, you got Rudy Gobert, we know what he does. Now you throw like a Devin Chinzo, and you're like, good God. Every single guy on the floor can slide their feet. They're going to have lineups

where they're able to switch one through five. You know what I can slide their feet. They're going to have lineups where they're able to switch one through five. You know what I mean? Like, that's a very dangerous weapon to have in today's NBA. Every down screen switch kills a whole play.

So they have that ability to do that, and that's part of the reason why the Nuggets struggled with them. I mean, Jokic just had Nas thrown at him,

then he had Rudy thrown at him, then he had Carl thrown at him. Like, just multiple bodies are thrown at him. Obviously,

Carl's not there, but they still have Nas, and I think that's a big reason. Carl being one of the three, I think, really helped them. 100%. It are thrown at them. Obviously, Carl's not there, but they still have Nas. And I think that's a big reason. But Carl being one of the three, I think, really helped them. 100%. It was all three of those guys, and it was the totality of it. Now they don't have the same kind of totality, but I mean... But they bet on that, though.

They bet on that. I think the stock on Nas is so high. They're like, you know what? I think we're good letting go of Carl. This guy's just as good in some ways. Nas is fucking talented. They're like, let's let the young guy get some minutes more. We still got Julius in there, but if it doesn't work,

he has an expiring contract anyway. And we got this dude right here. Or you can trade him in February because at the time of the deal, you can flip Randall. It doesn't work out. I'm glad you mentioned the Nas thing

because there were a lot of moments last season when Nas was out there instead of Towns where it's like, oh, oh, yeah, I'm sure they're worse. Yeah.

I might actually like this version of the team a little bit more. And I wonder, Tim Connolly runs that team who's a super smart guy, very well respected. And I wonder if every time that happened, he was like, hmm, I'm going to file that one away because they locked Nas up. Nas is on a good deal. And you think like short term, they're going to get hit this year, Because they locked Nas up. Nas is on a good deal. And you think like short term, they're going to get hit this year. But they did save a bunch of money on the luxury tax.

I think they saved like $40 million in luxury tax. But then next year, Randall comes off. So that's $30 million that's just off. You replace that with like a $9, $10 million guy and try to patch together the town's minutes with Nas and somebody else with DDV. And it's still way less than you're paying towns. And I'm sure that's how they saw it. And they have more flexibility. The town's thing was just like the grim reaper where you go on spot track and you

just see it with all their salaries, especially if like they're clearly building around Edwards and that's going to be the guy. And you can't also have a $60 million teammate for him. That's not, you can, if it's Jalen Brown, you can't if it's Tavis. It's so funny that you said that. It's like, you could feel it. Like even two, three years ago before Ant took that job last year, I was there. And it's not that Carl had any animosity towards Ant. He didn't do anything malicious, anything like that. You could feel it just in some of the behavioral energy that he was

losing control. But yeah, it was... He was losing that alpha dog status. Yeah, this brand has been his. You know what I mean? And now this guy comes in and he's talking and everyone's so swayed by him too. It's the way Ant moves. Ant walks in the locker room and he's like,

it's immediately his. And everyone is just like, you can see he was just like, what the fuck? It was just, it just happened. And I think they're ready now, especially with the Nas play. I think they're like, yo, I think we can do this. We add DiVincenzo. I just don't like, and I love Julius. I love Julius

on a lot of teams in the league. Just not this one, man. You got a guy who's like, he needs like five, six seconds. He's not a quick decision guy. He's not a pick and pop guy. It was already clouded and crowded with Gobert and him.

Julius out there in the middle of the floor just hovering around. And then you got Gobert who doesn't really, the spacing is going to be awkward. Yeah, so you think the starting five would be

Ant, Conley, McDaniels, Randall, and Gobert? Has to be. Who else? And then the bench is Nas, Dante, Dillingham, Alexander Walker, right? Yes. So it'll be one of these situations where the starter, it'll be like what happened with the Olympic team. The starters come out, they're minus six.

The bench comes in, the bench gets the lead back. You're like, oh, they should probably mix this up. And they just, they won't. But really, their crunch time five, Randall's not going to be out there. I don't think. The Nas will be in the Randall spot. And that's going to be a big ego blow. That's going to be a, for sure.

Again, we're talking about a 25-9 player. This is a big time player. He's an all-star. Yeah. You know what I mean? So this is a guy like, wait, this guy's a mid-level contract. This is a big-time player. He's an all-star. Yeah. You know what I mean? So this is a guy like, wait, this guy's a mid-level contract. Why is this guy finishing the game over me?

You know what I mean? What's going on here? Well, you mentioned the spacing with him and Gobert, which is going to be weird. There's also, I love Ant. Ant, as we've discussed in the past, I mean, he's my vote to be the next big American super-duper star.

It's a little ball-stoppering. Just a little. No, no, no. Just a little. Again, there's my vote to be the next big American super duper star. It's a little ball stopper-y. Just a little. No, no, no, no. Just a little. Again, there's guys like Kobe, Gilbert Arenas, right? Whoever. You go score. They're a little bit of a ball hog.

But listen, you're a scorer. Go do what you're supposed to do. But he is a ball stopper. And he's great. We all love Ant, like you said. But that is kind of what he is. That's exactly what Julius Randle is. They're both the same.

Julius is not a quick decision guy. You throw to him in the post, you got to wait five seconds for him to score. It is a process. It takes a lot of dribbles. It's a lot of work. Picking and popping is not really his game. He wants to catch, pump fake, raise you. He does the whole thing. Him with Ant,

it's a strange dynamic with Rudy on the floor too. They have to start that lineup. I hate to say half, but like. Well, there's another version of it where Gobert's not out there and they're playing Nas, Randall, McDaniels, Conley, or it's they're playing Dante in the McDaniels spot. Cause McDaniels is trick or treat. And there's games when he doesn't have it.

They didn't have a swing to bring in for him last year. If you didn't have it, right. That was one of the reasons they lost the Dallas series. Now with Dante, he can come in. That's a good point. He also, he gives them, he's not a point guard, obviously, but he gives them a little bit of Conley insurance,

who's old. And if Dillingham's not ready, you can kind of be like, fuck it. Let's just put out Dante and Ant together and that's our backcourt. That's exactly what they'll do. That's exactly what they'll do. That's exactly what they'll do. He could bring the ball up. He's not a point guard.

What's today's NBA point guard, man? They could definitely do that. I like their flexibility. There's a world where Randall maybe figures out how to make quicker decisions, but he's still in his 20s. The other thing is if he's unhappy,

from what we've seen from Edwards and you played with them, when these guys are larger than life, I think he'll have a way of sucking Randall into buying into the program. Cause that could have happened to towns, right? Towns could have checked out or gone sideways. And I thought it was so fascinating watching how Edwards dealt with him psychologically and how inclusive he was to him and how he'd bring press conference. He would tease him on the podium. He was just so clearly trying to boost him up and Bundini Brown him the whole time. have a high level mind to some level, right? And I play with Julius. He's a smart player. There's just a human awareness here, right? The Brunson thing, we all

agree, kind of came out of nowhere and it was like a back and forth, you know, they didn't like Batman Robin. That wasn't the term he wanted there. This is a very clear situation he's walking into. There's no way in hell Julius Randall walks in the Tim Wolves locker room and is like, I'm the best player here. Right. You know what I mean? So I think he knows even here, plus we're just talking from the money standpoint, he's probably like,

do I need another place to go to where I'm unhappy and not work? I need to come into this situation, put my ego aside, fit in, fix some things, tweak some things, work on maybe how quick I go, what shots I'm going to be, what spots they need me on the floor. What does Finchie need me to be? What does Tim Conley expect out of me? What are y'all bringing me here for? And try to tap into that instead of trying to go have a contract here. This is not set up for you to do that. This is not the Knicks. You're not going to just get the ball in the post every time they're going to sit there and watch you do your five dribble. It's not how that's going to work here, bro. They got another guy that does that, and he's better than you.

So, you know. Well, can I throw another scenario, too, off this scenario? He's a player option next year. Yeah. So, everyone's like, well, he's going to be a free agent. He's playing for a new contract. We were saying that about D'Angelo Russell last year, right? Oh, yeah.

Well, he's going to be. Guess what? Guess who exercised his player option? D'Angelo Russell last year, right? Oh, yeah. Well, he's going to be... Guess what? Guess who exercised his player option? D'Angelo Russell. Yep. That $31 million for 2026 might be Randall's best option. And maybe this is a two-year thing, not a one-year thing.

I think that would really screw them up from a tax salary cap standpoint. But regardless, RIP, the 2004 Detroit Pistons reincarnated in Minnesota. I think that I don't see a scenario where they're as good defensively as they look for a couple stretches there.

There's another piece of this though. Is, you know, Minnesota were built to beat Denver. Tim Connolly came in. He saw Denver.

He had to build this super team to beat them and then they beat them. This is kind of a loss for Denver. Tim Connolly came in. He saw Denver. He had to build this super team to beat them. And then they beat them. This is kind of a loss for Denver. Minnesota's like, we actually don't need to beat Denver anymore. We're more worried about OKC and Dallas and maybe Memphis and Denver's worse. And maybe we don't have to have a team that's just specifically built to beat Jokic because they're not the same team anymore. And the team they have now is a little better equipped to deal with like an OKC type of team and Dallas, a team that they got their asses kicked. So in a weird way, I feel like this was

a loss for Denver, which is a strange thing to say, but I just don't think they're as invincible. And I think this trade proves it. Minnesota's like, yeah, fuck it. We don't need the Jokic stoppers anymore. We're fine. 100%. Especially with the. Minnesota's like, yeah, fuck it. We don't need the Jokic stoppers anymore. We're fine. 100%. Especially with the talent that, like you said, Denver's lost, KCP, Denver's lost, even guys like Jeff Green, Bruce Brown.

A lot of these key assets that they've had, they've kind of let just trickle away. Jamal Murray is a good player they've lost. I'm kidding. He's coming back. I'm buying the Murray stock. Yeah, come on. Let's reinvest in some Murray stock.

The Olympics was, you could see he just kind of showed that. He literally just showed up. He hadn't touched the ball since they got out. It was not the Jamal that I know. But I still got some faith in him. Obviously, he had a good season last year. Weird ending.

Playoffs was weird. But he's a big-time player. But they're not as, like you said, they're not as invincible as they were. But OKC is now the bar. Oh, sure. Especially with Caruso adding, and then who's the other guy they got? Hartenstein. Hartenstein. I mean, that's huge, bro.

And then Jalen Williams, year three. Chet, year three. Jalen Williams, year four. I can't remember. Those guys are still early. All right, next question. Why didn't we realize this whole summer that a town's trade was inevitable? I'm kind of mad at myself, and I think I've mentioned it on past podcasts

that I felt like we're heading to this point. I don't think we're heading to it before the season, but all the ownership bullshit they had, all the tax shit that was coming, the fact that they had Nas on a good contract, I just feel like we should have seen this one. All the tax shit that was coming. The fact that they had Nas on a good contract. I just feel like we should have seen this one. The ownership stuff and complete disarray. I felt like he was always headed to the Knicks in my head because Leon was his agent.

They have the Kentucky thing. But yet I was completely blindsided last night. I just thought that this would happen in January if the Minnesota season was a little unhappy and the Knicks were falling apart without a center but now I'm like oh shit, of course they traded Towns. Do you feel that way at all? You see a successful

run, conference finals run the immediate thought I think is they're running it back. They're this close. It was a weird series versus Dallas. Could have even been a matchup thing.

Who knows if they would have matched up with someone differently next year. They could be in the finals. They probably would have played Boston way better than Dallas did. You know what I mean?

Sometimes it's just matchup things, right? So to that point, you're just like, why wouldn't they run it back? So that was surprising. When I saw Carl and Teddy Towns, I felt kind of on both sides of the fence because I felt the other way too. I'm like, why wouldn't they run it back? So that was surprising. When I saw Carl and Teddy Towns,

I felt kind of on both sides of the fence because I felt the other way too. I'm like, they also have been putting his name out. His name has been in talks for a minute. Since the Gobert thing came about, his value has gone down so much that everyone knew the guy to be traded was Carl. And everyone's like, it's just

a matter of time when it's going to happen. Then we see the success and we're like, oh, well, they're not getting rid of him. They might write this out. But then you add the contract stuff into it. You had all the other points, Nas Reed, all these different things you add to it. We shouldn't be surprised, really. It was inevitable that he was going to get moved. For sure. Friday night as I'm having cocktails, I was a little surprised. Can you walk me through your best case scenario for towns in new york as somebody who's spent time with him and played with him let's say this goes awesome okay this is like cloud in the sky holy shit almost like when the when the celtics traded for drew and poor zingas and then

just everything worked out what's the town's version of that in New York? Best case scenario is he gives himself to Tibbs. And I mean that in the sense where he buys in fully on what Tibbs needs him to do defensively. I'm not really worried about Carl offensively. He just knows how to put the ball in the basket, whether it's him shooting over guys and scoring in the post. Carl's going to score the ball. He's going to average 20 plus points per game

because that's what he's done every single year he's been in the NBA. And he's going to do that next year no matter what team he plays on. He's too good of a shooter and too skilled of a player. It's the other stuff that we talked about. And these are specific things. The quotes after a game. The quotes after the game, the little things, all this other stuff with New York media and with Thibodeau as your coach, can he buy in and give himself to fit into that program? You got like Josh Hart and you got, uh, Mikael Bridges and you got Brunson, all these Villanova, like there are a certain

type of guy that Thibodeau works well with and they have them over there. Carl's not those things. Great guy, but he's just different. That is the concern. Best case scenario is he gives himself to Tibbs. You know, he's locked in. in. He's going to have his little quotes and funny moments, but it's all within realm of positivity and nothing that's a distraction. He's shooting the ball at a high clip because that's what they're bringing him there for.

He's stretching the floor. He's shooting the ball high. So he starts out like 50% from three in the first six weeks of the season. You remember like the first two weeks, Grant Williams and the Mavs, I couldn't miss. This is the best.

This is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. That is what they need from Carl. Too soon weeks, Grant Williams and the Mavs, I couldn't miss. This is the best. This is perfect. Yeah. Yeah, that is what they need from Carl. Too soon for the Grant Williams. That aged very poorly. Too soon? Yeah, too soon. Hashtag too soon.

My bad. Yeah, that's best case scenario. I think he works well with Tibbs first and foremost. Basketball, why don't you take care of yourself? So you're talking about sacrifice. This is KT and Ray going to the Celtics with Pierce and Doctel and Ray. You're going to have five less shots this year. Sorry.

And also, let's be honest, man. Is he the best player or second best player? I know you say Brunson is, but I'm telling you, if you're Carl Townsend, you're like, I'm an eight-time All-Star, man. This guy's a one-time, two-time All-Star. It's easy to do with Ant. Ant's like this exploding, you can't deny it. He's like a top five, top ten

player in the NBA talent. This is the guy. Brunson had a career year last year, but Carl might be thinking, I'm the guy here. I don't know. I don't know what's going through his mind. This is your worst case scenario. It's Brunson City. Brunson's dad is on the coaching staff.

Brunson has these incredible relationships. And I'm sure through the agents, Brunson and Towns have probably known each other for a while. I almost want to bring Conspiracy Bill in, but we're still workshopping it. But Brunson giving up the money and then the Towns trade happening a month and a half later and all the same agents.

I'm like hmm something so there's a definite little scent to that one but i conspiracy bill we're not bringing them in um i'll just say this towns i find just impossibly frustrating as a basketball fan really and yet i do like him like i i really do kind of weirdly root for him. And he's become one of those athletes where you're like, just stay out of your own fucking way, man. You're so talented.

Just don't fuck this up. He's just turned into one of those guys. Yep. And that's what I'm saying is the best case scenario. Stay out your own way, Carl. Do the little things. Work on the defensive stuff. He's going to do things that's going to drive

Tibbs and people crazy. But if the other stuff overclouds it, his performance on the offensive end, if's going to do things that's going to drive Tibbs and people crazy. But if the other stuff overclouds it, his performance on the offensive end, if he goes vertical at the rim, again,

they need him to be a center now. The past couple years, you haven't had to do the center work. Rudy's done all that. You get to float around, shoot your threes,

offense. That is completely different from what you're about to get yourself into. Mitchell Robinson is hurt. God knows when. They never know with him. You are the center.

They need you to rebound and block shots and contest at the rim and be vertical without staying in, uh, without getting in foul trouble. Like these are some big, big tasks at hand. They have no shot blocking. They need you to do that. And he's notorious for fouling. These aren't things that mix well. So it's like that is best case scenario. So he's able to figure out that formula where he's able to stay on the floor and be productive without getting in his own way, like you said. That's best case scenario. I think he can do it, though.

I'm really hopeful. He's such a talented person, talented player. I just want to wish the best and be positive here, Bill. Okay? I do, too, but as a Celtic fan,

I'm like, we might be better off with... Yeah, you don't want it to work. Yeah, well, it can work until they get to whatever round plays Celtics. How about your summer? You guys just don't do anything. you don't want it to work. Yeah, well, it can work until they get to whatever round place Celtics. How about your summer? You guys just don't do anything. You don't even have to. What the luxury of a

Celtics fan right now? No need to go in the market, just run the hole. And somehow they're coming back pissed off. Continuity with a chip on our shoulder, somehow. Somehow, both your best players are pissed off. I mean, it's a best case scenario for you. Well, you know, and Missoula has been apparently, in a good way, a maniac about no mention in the championship.

I don't want to see hats. I don't want to see t-shirts. We're not going to do like the, yeah, yeah, we won. Like, we're moving forward. That season happened. It's over. Which I think is how you have to do it. He's perfect for it. Fuck it. He's perfect for it.

Yeah, he's, you know, he wants to go back to back and the team's pissed off and they're in a pretty good spot. Here's my last question. So the Knicks, who we all liked, who we barely had all together and it was like, this is really fun. I'm really enjoying this. And now that gets

blown up. Philly's changed. You know, the Lakers seem to change every couple years. They this is really fun. I'm really enjoying this. And now that gets blown up. Philly's changed. You know, the Lakers seem to change every couple of years. They don't really matter anymore. The Warriors are different. Minnesota was in the conference finals. They just changed. Denver couldn't keep their team together.

It's just teams are just different every year. Now the NBA has become 2K, which is not a new point. Yep. Do we like this? Do we like the fact that just like you mentioned how, oh my God, Boston didn't do anything. It's like, why do we have to do anything? Why does it have to be a situation where it's just the season ends and you press the 2K reset button and, oh, I have new rosters this year. How did we end up with a league like this? Man, that's a great question, man. Good God. Where do i start i

don't know how much time we have is it that the fact that the contracts aren't aren't that long anymore or just but the whole the whole nba is a whole shifted you know i talked about this briefly on my pod yeah where you know the type of players that are playing in the nba um i talked about the concern i have for the longevity in terms of where the game will be at with the uprise of foreign basketball. I mean, how they're pushing guys out, the type of contracts, who's getting paid what.

It's just a funny league, man. The AAU culture that you start with and begin with. The AAU culture. And the DNA of, my team didn't win, I'm now going to jump teams. And now with the NIL and the transfer portal, these kids don't have to stay loyal to nobody. Bro, I went to practice.

Coach K used to make me cry because he was talking to me so crazy. But you have to figure shit out, man. You have to like break your spirit down. You have to show like humility. You have to get through stuff. That's like part of like going to college and like playing for these teams.

Bro, if you go now and get yelled at the wrong way, they got a kid making $2 million, man. He's going to look at you and be like, bye. Like, I'm not, I don't even have to play here.

It's just, it's different. And it's way different than how they do it over there. The style of play we're playing. It's just, I think it all connects. And I think that there's a copycat league. A lot of people try to copy somebody who's doing something really good.

Cause they're really good at it and think they can do the same thing and it ends up with bad products. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, two-way wing, shooting, stretch five. And it's like, bro, so now they're pushing out

other good players for like these type of guys, but that doesn't mean these type of guys can play. Everyone tried to do what Sam Presti does and like rebuild and restart. Now we have just a bunch of bad teams

who are still bad. It's like, not everybody's going to be able to do what Sam, not everybody's Sam Presti or Tim Conley. So it's like, we're in a weird state of the league right now.

I don't understand what I'm looking at. I don't even know how to, bro, I'm watching. I'm a journalist, man. I study. I'm a basketball junkie. I'm playing pickup this summer

with all these guys. I'm just playing for fun. I'm already in the media stuff now. That's where I'm headed. I'm done playing for the most part. And I'm just out here just hooping for fun.

And I'm playing against some of these guys. I'm just like, good God. I was like, this is, who the hell is this dude? You know what I mean? Like, it's just a different league, man. I don't know who have these. So I don't know to answer that question.

I don't know how it happened. I don't know when it happened. I think it's been over the past 10, 12 years. The league has drastically changed, drastically. Who's in running teams now? You know, what type of hires? It's, I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm just saying we are where we are.

I think we've turned into the No Patience Basketball Association. We're the NPBA. And so you look at a team like Miami that hasn't really done anything. And you don't really have to do everything in August. You don't have to do everything in September. You don't have to do everything in October.

You can wait till, you can watch a couple months and see it, but really nobody does that. And when they don't do it, you're like loser of the summer, Miami, they didn't do anything. The Celtics, how are they, you know? And so it's this mindset of like, you had to have done something for something to have happened. But I just think the Knicks like going on the one hand, you could say, well, they're putting together all these assets. The Brunson thing worked out. And they got into this situation now where they have... I have Towns as a top 35 player. I have Bridges and Ananobi as top 55

players. So those are three guys they didn't have two years ago. So this worked. The plan worked. But I also really liked watching that Knicks team last year. And there was ways to add to it without going pot committed on this thing and another pot committed. You know what I mean? 100%. They went full send. I mean, they decided to go. We all kind of liked what they were cooking

and the spirit at which they played it in. The Knicks were a team that if you weren't from there, people just didn't want to even cheer for the Knicks. That wasn't the case. You had people like wanted this team to win you know what I mean because they had like guys who played that basketball besides like all that stuff they were good and you had enough assets there where you're like you know they're only like especially with Randall still being there you don't have to do this now your team's gonna be really good let's put them out there like find some stuff see see what works, see what we need. And then we got Randall here to move

if we need to. They just do it right now, a week before training camp. And now this is where they're at. There's no backtracking out of this. You know what I mean? Especially with Carl's contract. This is the future here.

So you just now... It reminds me a little of when the Lakers did that Westbrook trade. And I was against it. And I went on my pod and I was like, there's no going back now. If this doesn't work,

all of your doors are closed. Right? And what happened? It didn't work. All the doors are closed. I don't think the Towns thing has a chance to be as bad as Westbrook on the Lakers,

but if it doesn't work that well, there's not a lot of options for this. There's not a lot of next moves. It helps when you can shoot. At the end of the day, the one thing we know we're going to get out of Carl is that dude is going to be out there

firing threes and knocking them down. He's just going to be doing it. He's just too talented. It's just going to happen. It's the other stuff that we talked about that we got to hope in this type of magnifying glass, which he's going to be under now, which he's not used to. And just think every time we have done it,

we've found stuff and laughed. Carl, you got to move differently now. Right. You know, you can't just get to the podium and start saying, this is what movies are made of. Again, we find it funny. We love it.

I love him. He's a great dude. But the New York people, they'll tear that shit up. You know what I mean? Like, it's brutal there. Talk to Julius. Talk to Mello.

Talk to any of the top guys that have been there. Why do they like Brunson? He don't talk. He goes out there, he puts in work, and he shuts up. He don't say nothing. The only time he talks is on his pod.

Right. He doesn't say anything except for his podcast. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now everyone has one. Even when he's on there, he's still very 50-50. You know what I mean? Yeah. Jalen's very Jalen. So it's like, that is, you know, it'll be interesting. By the way, we need to get

Carl Anthony Towns on your podcast. I did one with him. No, I'm saying like New Nick, New York Nick. That would be fantastic. A rerun would be great. Because I'm sure now he has a whole different perspective of stuff. Well, I bet he's upset.

And I bet they're working on him really hard. Being like, you know, Leon and Wes and those guys, we really want you. We really want you. This is going to be great. The Jalen sending him texts, but I'm sure like,

you know, I really did think he embraced the Minnesota thing and wanted to be there. Absolutely. He was asking for assurances over and over again. They weren't going to trade them. So I'm sure he's a little wounded by it. Um, all right.

We hit everything on a Saturday. On a Saturday, too. Commitment. Unbelievable. But this is the thing. We had a lot to say about this trade. Austin Rivers, great to see you. Listen to his podcast.

Always. It's called Off Guard. And you're doing a great job. Good to see you. Appreciate you as always. Y'all be easy. All right. Thanks to Austin Rivers.

Thanks, Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti. Thanks to Gahal as well. And we will be coming back to you pretty shortly, Sunday night with Sal. Don't forget that's live on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You'll also be able to find this podcast on the YouTube so I never want to say I don't have feelings with them On the wayside, on the way so I never want to say I don't have feelings with them

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