The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Sox-Yanks Nail-Biter, Intriguing NBA Story Lines, and Five Biggest Fantasy Football Story Lines With Bill’s Dad, Michael Pina, and Craig Horlbeck

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and his dad react to the Red Sox taking Game 1 in the wild-card round against the Yankees (3:46). Then, Michael Pina joins to talk about the five things to monitor before the NBA season starts (28:13). Finally, Craig Horlbeck joins to recap his NFL experience in Ireland before discussing the top five fantasy football stories (01:08:43). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Bill’s dad, Michael Pina, and Craig Horlbeck Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Chad Powers - New Episodes on Tuesdays on Hulu The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandual Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new rewatchables last night. It is Robert Redford Month on the rewatchables, and we did The Sting. It was me and Sean Fennacy and Chris Ryan. So you can check that out. You can watch it on YouTube. You can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify.

I can get it wherever you get your podcast. We're also recapping every episode of Task on the Prestige TV podcast on Sunday nights. And episode five is a hold on to your seats episode. So that's coming on Sunday. The next episode of Robert Redford Month, just so you have it now, you have a bunch of days to watch it, Jeremiah Johnson.

It came out a long time ago. It is an incredible, incredible, incredible movie. Big movie in my family. And you can find it. It's on some of the streaming services, including To Be, To Be. I don't know why I promote them because they don't listen to us.

They don't put movies on that we want them to put on. But you can watch movies for free on there. So Jeremy Johnson is over there. Coming up on this podcast, Red Sox Yankees had to lead with that at the top because the Red Sox won an incredible game of Yankee Stadium. So I called my dad. We talked about it as we head into Tuesday night here. Who knows?

Maybe that would be the only playoff game, the Red Sox win. But we talked about a crazy game, bizarre season, and what it's like to beat the Yankee. He's in Yankee Stadium. So if you want to skip that, that's about, I don't know, 22, 23 minutes. You can go right to the rest of the podcast, which is Michael Pina talking about five NBA preseason storylines that he's watching over the next three weeks. And then I had Craig Horlebeck on to talk about what it's like to go to an Ireland NFL game.

And then we did basically assessing fantasy, top five biggest fantasy football storylines after four weeks, including Tyreek Hill, who tragically is out for the year. And then we talked a little Steelers, Ravens, NFL, NFC, NFC, North as well. Can't speak. I'm still speechless from that Red Sox game. Anyway, that is all coming up next. We're going to take a break.

We're going to go Pearl Jam. And then my dad talking Red Sox Yankees next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by Fandle and the NFL is back. And thank God. Fando has everything. They got an awesome app. They have SGPs.

They have great futures. They have good problems. Betts. Live betting. Your way bets. Clean app. It's great to use. I've been using it in for a few years. Every time I go back to Boston or any place that has Fando and I get to use it, I'm always excited. I'm on an airplane runway. You've done the airplane runway? Yeah. Oh, everybody. There should be a button. The runway button. I'm on the airplane runway. I got to get this in. Get your bets in, build something bold, make every game feel bigger.

Download the Fando app or head to Fando.com slash BS to get started. The ringer committed to responsible gaming, please visit RG-G-Help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus in President Select States

or 18 plus in President D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem, call 18000 gamble or visit RG-HALP.com. Call 188-78-9-777-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Paid endorsement.

All right, recording the top of the podcast, 6.30 Pacific time. Just watch the Red Sox beat the Yankees. Game one of a best two out of three series. This Red Sox team, Cassis gets hurt in the first month. They trade Devers. They lose Meyer. They lose Roman Anthony, who's the best guy in the team. They lose Cutter Crawford. They lose Jolito right before the playoffs. They lose Hawk.

They lose Hawk. There's guys in the lineup that I'm getting texts from friends. Like, do you realize it's the playoffs? What is this lineup? And somehow they win in Yankee Stadium. What was your favorite part about the game? Well, you and I texted at the beginning of the game. We looked at the two lineups and said, look at our lineup.

Romay Gonzalez is batting fourth. So God. So God was in the minus two weeks, two weeks ago. Had the critical play of the game. Yeah, he really did. He really did. It was a great baseball game. I'm not just saying that because the Red Sox won.

But you're in the edge of your seat the entire nine innings. I'm sweating. And I have the air conditioning on. We haven't had a lot of these in the last like six, seven years. And especially like with the way this Red Sox team is built, this was, I know every playoff game is a must win, but this was actually a must win because I don't think they were winning two in a row without crochet. And then they're using the Chapman card too on top of it.

Not just that. Our third starter is out with a sore elbow. We're going to, if we have a, well, we would definitely, we'll have a game tomorrow. It's going to be the rookie, right? Right? It's going to be a guy that we didn't even know who it was a month ago. Yeah, it would be kind of early, I guess. It'd be nice as they rap. You know, Bellet, who's pitching tomorrow,

pitches very well in Yankee Stadium. But that ninth inning, when Chapman seemed to not have it. Yeah. He's only once this year come in at the bottom of the eighth and then pitch the ninth. And it seemed to upset him a little bit in terms of his sequence. Yeah, there's no question. And his fastball to start the ninth.

ninth inning. Even the announcer was saying 94-95. And all of a sudden, the bases are loaded and the fastball hits 100. 101. 100-1. Terrific stuff. Well, it's funny, like the older you get with

baseball with the baggage, you know, going into the eighth inning in Yankee Stadium, not the same circumstances obviously, but with a pitcher whose Pedro wasn't awesome in 2003, but just eighth inning Yankee stadium. I'm already nervous. How far can we push our starting pitcher? It started getting like

PTSD to the Boone game. But then Chapman coming in the eighth was so unusual. They've really tried not to do that at all this year. And he comes in. He's in a lather. He's all sweaty. This time he wasn't. And then a long break. And then he comes back out. And he threw 95 with his first pitch. And it was like, oh, my God, this is going to be a disaster. It was like maybe three or four pitches. All of a sudden, there's three hits in a row. And the base is a load. And I'm thinking, oh, boy, I've seen this before. But I watched Chapman all year. He had a terrific year.

Yeah, he was awesome. And I, you know, I guess the wisdom of bringing him in for one batter to close the eighth kind of made sense. But maybe you leave, I know Crochet had 117 pitches. He was done. That was a career high. Yeah, I think they had to pull him. The problem is if you play the Whitlock card in this game,

and then you need them, they need to win two or three. Whitlock's their best reliever by far, other than Chapman. I don't think that was only it. I don't think they wanted lefties to come up to bat with that short porch and right field. Yeah, they want to keep Ben Rice on the bench. Yeah. They wanted to keep Chisholm on there.

But yeah, it had all the makings of just one of the most awful losses, which they've had a lot of this year. But they've also had a lot of goofy wins, too. I was saying the other day on the pot, it's a really, really lovable, goofy, frustrating, but kind of fun Red Sox team. You saw today, like, Sogard makes the key play of the game, like digging in and getting to second base on that double. I didn't. I'm watching it. I didn't even realize that he was going to try to do that. Well, the insurance front of the night in the top of the night was

from Bregman, who looked like luggage in the other three-upats. Well, and he's been sick. Story has been sick. Brugman, you probably read. didn't even take the team playing to go to New York. He was sick. They didn't want him getting other people sick. So they weren't sure he was going to play today. And he looked like luggage and then big hit. Well, he also hasn't, he was awesome the first few weeks of the season got hurt.

He hasn't really looked the same since he came back. I don't think. No, I don't think. The stats back it up, too. It was a leg injury, if I recall. It just seems like he doesn't have the strength in that. leg, but that's such a key hit, but one ironic part, two stolen bases, key in this game. Story's stolen base as well.

We love stolen bases against the Yankees, don't we? Right. Well, the other thing, I mean, we got to talk about crochet because he was the story of the game. This is, you know, we've disagreed with a lot of the Red Sox moves. They've been some really strange ones over the last, really the mooky trade, but even some other stuff even trading away sale basically paying to get rid of them and then of course he's good right right away and just uh these moves that we haven't really loved and yet the crochet trades one of the best trades i think of my lifetime for the so for the red sox at least so far i think so and i don't

know if you do the same thing as me i always look in the white socks box score to see how teal is doing yeah and the other guy in medrath and uh the pitcher they gonzalez they paid they traded in there And, you know, you have to give away something to get something. And we gave away some future talent to get a possible, say, young award winner. Who's been even better than I think they thought. I mean, he threw over 200 innings. He was today, what he looked like today, it feels like he's done that 10 to 12 times this year where he's just been Capu dominant.

I think what did he have, like 15 in a row at one point? 16 in a row. Yes, yeah. I wish he could pitch tomorrow. It's tomorrow that that's not enough rest, right? 24 weeks. But how about Thursday? Can he come back?

Oh, man. Well, that's the thing is they're going to have to patch together game two or game three. Whitlock probably pitches both games now. Right. And he's been not only the best reliever on the team other than Chapman, but one of the best set up guys in either league. We know we have a game Thursday if we don't win tomorrow. So, and Chapman could pitch Thursday.

But you're right. block both games could pitch. You know, they may do a bullpen game Thursday if they have to, if it goes that far, I don't know. I mean, how ridiculous is that? They're going to do a bullpen game? Well, at least we traded for May from the Dodgers. And, oh, he's not pitching.

Yeah, at least none of the guys from the Devers trade are contributing in any way. But Devers wasn't contributing in San Francisco either. It's just a stupefying season, but it has been really fun to watch. I thought when Anthony, when it came out that he had no chance of coming back, that felt like it. And you could really feel it today when you saw the lineup laid out. Even when they flashed it before the game, you're like, oh. And then Raphael is batting eighth, and he's the only hitter, I feel like lately, other than Yoshita, who then had, you know, he came in off the bench and had the big hit.

But Raphael has had, he's looked good the last two weeks. Like all of a sudden he stopped chasing balls and doing like the weird shit he's been doing. But then Yoshida, who talk about looking like luggage. He looked dead in August. He was in the running for your least favorite Red Sox player in the year. He was, but I was happy to see him come up to pitch it tonight. I know. Well, he's been good for like a, I don't know, like a month, five weeks, whatever.

But he's been very good. All of a sudden those grounders to second base were starting to be line drives. But it's funny, each month of the season, somebody was inhabited by an evil spirit, right? Because, like, Raphael, he had that unbelievable stretch right before the All-Star game. And then right afterwards, just like, you know, just became a zombie.

First two weeks of September, he couldn't get a hit. And he was swinging at everything. And, like, even when he had the big hit the other night, I thought he was going to start crying on the field. Like, he was so relieved that he came through. But I really, I like him. That was another big storyline. He got the walk tonight.

I don't know. I can't remember him the last time he walked in a ball game. And Barbias had some really good at bats too, which I wasn't surprised by it because he's a, I felt like he was going to be a big game catcher for them. But it's a weird one. They're going against the lefty tomorrow. And it's the same thing. We're going to have all these crazy lineup again of all these right-hand.

Oh, that's right. Rodin is left-handed. Radan, you got to use the pronunciation. Well, I could slow. Well, how about, I mean, let's talk about the Yankee side of things. They take out Freed and. By the way, he has 99 pitches. Well, how weird was it that they brought him back out for one batter and then got, like, so he warmed up and then pitches to one guy and then they get rid of them?

We couldn't hit. None of our guys could hit him. think that's going to be a big storyline in New York because the announcers are saying, well, they're playing the long game that if he's, they go to the World Series, he has to pitch seven times. Hey, you got to win tonight. Right. I never would have taken him out. He was unhittable. We weren't going to hit that guy. Well, the thing is, you either don't bring him back out or if you're bringing him back out, then see how far he can go with him. Right. Because if you're going to go through the whole process of having him throw all the warm-up pitches and

everything. And then what's the point of then sitting them? 99 pitches, crochet throws 117 pitches. I mean, Freed is their ace because they had the injury. Yeah, he's been really good the last. They see his stats like the last seven starts. You got to leave him in.

Who were you the most afraid of in the Yankee lineup other than judge? Judge is just absolutely petrifying. I really like Belling. I know he got the hit. Yeah, he is good at bats. I'm glad we didn't have a righty throwing to him. They have a lot of guys that just can drop those little singles in and they wait for the big head.

That's short, right field, you know, the home run, that the, well, who got the home run? The short stuff. That was well hit. That was well hit. Yeah, but that was, Bolpey's like, he's by far everybody's. least favorite Yankee that I know. Yeah.

And they've been complaining about him all year. But yeah, Crochet, my buddy Hensch pointed this out. Crochet, this was like his Achilles heel all year was the worst hitter on the other team. Right. Whoever the worst guy was, that was somehow getting him. So Volpe got him. And I was like, really, they're going to lose one-nothing on a Volpey Homer? These fans have been complaining about him since April.

Well, you noticed the next couple times Welpy came up, Crochet pips him differently. They didn't give him anything to hit. No fastball. It was just an incredible crochet game, though. I mean, I really like start to finish this season. There's not that many pitchers I would put since I've been a Red Sox fan that I would put over him that the Red Sox have had. Obviously, you've had like some of those Clemens years and people like that. But just for like a start to finish season, he's been just as lights out.

Can you think of Pedro would be the, Pedro would be the, 10 out of 10. I'm not even comparing anyone to Pedro, but like after him, he's in that conversation for best seasons. Yeah, definitely for best seasons. They had that little list in the paper about guys you'd want starting game one of a series like this. And yeah, uh, obviously Pedro, obviously Clemens. They had luster in that list. Um, that's a good one. They had Beckett in that list when he was doing well for us. Even they had chilling in that list, you know, for one game when you're really stuck.

I think he deserves to be on that list. Yeah, I'm okay with that. Yeah, but Crochet carved himself a little place in Boston Red Sog Law today. Well, they might lose the next two. But at least statistically, it's been a start to finish, like, masterpiece and considering, you know,

the stuff they gave up the bet they made not knowing if he was going to be able to pitch in a big market and do all the stuff he's done i've really enjoyed watching them right it's almost he's not at that Pedro level where it's like i'm clearing out tonight because Pedro's pitching he's not at that level but he's been a fun every five days guy he's not at that level because it's his first year with us but he he did sign what was a six year extension yeah so he's going to be with us for a while and you know you help is everything with a picture like that. Right, especially in this area.

The bummer is that Anthony's not involved in this. I thought he was such a special player. He was a must-watch guy, and it just felt like, man. You still wonder if we are able to move on, if he's possibly going to play? Did you just put us in the next round? I don't want to do it. I said possibly.

If we, I said if and possibly. They said he's in Florida. Yeah. I'm not sure what's going on there. He's got this oblique thing that the oblique is the new, I have no idea how long this injury injury. It could be a month, it could be five months. You just don't know.

I don't know. Isn't that the injury castas had last year, oblique? Probably. I mean, it's... It's a bad injury. Yeah. On my AL-keeper team, it feels like we've had four a year. Yeah.

There's a red flag. Yeah, it's like basketball, like calf tightness. Yeah. It was so enjoyable, but so tense to watch. We haven't had that kind of game where every pitch matter. I'm sitting forward on the couch. I'm sweating in air conditioning. Every pitch matters. You don't want to go to the bathroom because you don't want to miss it. It was great to have that kind of baseball game today. Wow. And the big thing. We won. Even better than us winning and us advancing, because I don't think this team is probably capable. of winning four rounds. I think that would be borderline raccoes. The better thing is beating the Yankees. That was like when they started cutting,

when they had the lead in the late innings and they started cutting around and showing the faces, they could have just shown that instead of the game. I was so happy. Can you show that section again? If everybody looks like they're about to cry? When the game ended and they went to the crowd, you mean?

And there was a guy like this. They were doing it the last couple of innings when they took out freed and they immediately gave up two runs and they're just the guys like deer in the headlights. But we've had that look many times on the Boston side, so we know what that looks like. I was a little surprised how many Red Sox fans were in the crowd

because I'm sure you read Ticketmaster wouldn't sell tickets to Red Sox fans in Boston to go to the game. Yeah. I hope they don't get beat up on the way out of Yankee Stadium. The fans did not look happy. No, it wasn't great. And Boone's going to take.

a lot of grief for pulling freed, I think. And I think rightfully so. Yeah, so that was a weird one when he put Jazz in at the end of the game and then Jazz's spot came up against the left day. It's like if you were, you're putting him for defensive purposes, but you're losing. But he put him in and he had to face.

And then he had to face Chapman. Didn't he face crochet also? Oh, I can't remember. I mean, honestly, everything's blending together. Did he, no, he only faced that chapter. Just to win at that. Yeah. Yeah, that was very strange.

The guy I was most afraid of, of all the random guys they had was Grisham because I had I had him on my, on my keeper team. And he was just, oh, he was just pretty steadily a stud for them. I can't remember. See her right or a lefty. He's a lefty. Okay. So they said, fuck it.

And they played him. The guy that we're avoiding, or at least we avoided. today that I'll be interested if he plays tomorrow is Ben Rice because he's been he's been kind of a wild car offensive guy

Oh yeah he'll definitely play by yeah yeah yeah but unfortunately Bayo I can't

I can't say he's been awesome the last six weeks He died in September but the one thing is that he has played well in Yankee Stadium and he has a very good

record against the Yankees it just isn't pitching well lately. It's not pitching well lately, but he does, I will say in his semi-defense, he does like the big moments. He likes the, he likes like a full stadium and he does have a little bit of swagger to him that I'll be interested to see if it comes out. I don't know what happened to him the last few weeks.

It hasn't been a disaster, but he just hasn't been at the same level. He did. He did a really nice run for like 11, 12 starts. He's going in four or five innings. Rodon. Rodon, yeah. who's been really good the last month and a half. We have hit him.

Well, can you imagine? It's funny to do this because by tomorrow, there'll be another game and this whole segment will be dead. But if they can somehow win one of these next two and knock the Yankees out, whoever wrote a healthy team, they spent more money on it, they were one of the favorites to win the World Series,

and we knocked them out with this goofy roster of, you know, it's like a mass unit. I don't know what that, I don't know how the Yankees respond to that. And I don't know, like, do they fire the manager? Does somebody get fired? Does there like some major trade? I don't know what they do.

Well, they have been, they've had worse moments and have not fired the manager. This would be like, I mean, if they're down two runs tomorrow heading into the late innings with the season on the line, this would be out of control. The only thing I, be repetitive is Boone deciding to take Freed out.

Yeah. That's a man. You know, I thought Cora pitched, uh, managed an awesome game. Awesome game. And he, he's managed some awesome games to get us in here, uh, moving. I think he likes having all these players that nobody ever heard of. He's Randy lefty. Yeah.

He's batting Roman Gonzalez's queen up. Just like getting a huge kick out of it. And he got three walks, which were very important. important, yeah. Yeah, so that Max Freed, I'm looking at it right now. Wasn't it 99 pitches? Yeah, but I'm trying to see, yeah, he went over 100 a few times. Like his high, he got to 111 at the end of July.

He did 107 in their last start of this season. I would have to finish the inning. I 100% would have to cut it this way. I was psyched that they took them out. Were you? I was like, this is great. Definitely take him out. I think the Red Sox players kind of were going like this.

Yeah. I mean, we couldn't touch that dude. He was awesome. And even the announcers said the same thing. They're not going to criticize a decision, but they somewhat criticize a decision. When they said 99 pitches, crochet 117, you know, they left it hanging for the fan to say,

why didn't he stay in there? Well, listen, if this, this, this ridiculous Red Sox season, which we've both watched a ton of, and I've really enjoyed. And I really feel like baseball has made a nice little resurgence. I know some people never left. I know there are reasons why. You never stopped watching. I was getting really frustrated. The mooky thing sent me in a, set me in kind of a tailspin with the team. The dentist thing kind of sent me a little bit the same way, except. Except I understood it. I mean, we were,

the whole thing was so strange with him and it didn't seem like he was in shape and it was a lot of money and it was a chance to, you know, if they're going to actually use that money somewhere else, we'll see. Well, they used it to tie up some of it to tie up Anthony.

Right. And unfortunately, Christian Campbell, who went to Worcester in June and was never seen again. Yeah, I think we'll see him again a couple years. I hope so. He's got to be like, I can't believe I'm not playing when he looked at some of the

guys in the lineup. All right. Well, I'm glad we're still doing this. It's funny because when I was looking back at the home run, the game I wrote about the Boone Home Run, I'm sorry, the column I wrote about the Boone Home Run in 2003. And I had a whole thing about how, you know, I call it to make sure you are all right. And now somehow I'm older than you in that column. And I was worried you're going to kill over. And now I'm in the killover stage, apparently. So thanks for fans. And you're still, you're still kicking around. So we're doing great. Yeah, except I'm sweating in the air to be like so.

Yeah, try to have some water. All right. I'll check it tomorrow. Thanks for popping on the podcast. All right, thanks. Take care. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by Fandul. And Fandals keeping the energy up with their $2 million jackpot every Thursday game of the NFL season.

Here's how it works. Opt-in and placing anytime touchdown score about in that night's NFL game using profit boost. If your player scores the first or last touchdown in the game, you earn a share of $2 million in bonus bets. I really like the Rams on Thursday. I think this Niners season is in a lot of trouble. So if you're doing the Rams, just bet on you could do Puka for anytime T.D. Do anytime TD Puka with the Rams money line.

Whatever. Put Pook in it because he's the best receiver in the league right now. Head to fando.com slash BS to download the app and get started. an official sports book partner of the NFL. Must be 21 plus President Select States or 18 plus in President D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Opt-in, must-apply profit boost token on select market.

Prize pool to be split equally among all eligible participants who made the correct first or last TD pick. Bonus issue as non-rejadroba bonus bet, which expires, 21 days after receipt, restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem called 180 gamble or visit RG-HALP.com.

call 1-88-78-9-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to by Hulu. Glenn Powell is Chad Powers now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. Actually, saw the first episode of this. This show was good. Eight years after flushing his college football career down the toilet, hot shot quarterback Russ Holiday, makes a comeback, disguised as Chad Powers for the South Georgia Catfish.

to determine once again to take college football by a storm and it's a little like Mrs. Doubtfire across for the football show but they openly admit it. Watch the hilarious new Hulu original series. Chad Powers

now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers' terms apply. All right, it is September 30th which means it's almost October 1st which means the NBA is somehow only a couple weeks away.

Michael Pina is here from the ringer. Are you ready? Feels like it's snuck up this year. Are you ready emotionally? I guess I have to be, right? To be honest, no, I'm not. It has snuck up, I feel like, but we have no choice. It's coming.

It's about a month away. I usually kind of skip the preseason-ish. I just don't think that there's too much to grasp, but regular seasons like three weeks away, and when it's here, I'll be ready for it. Is Tatum? I asked you to do your five things you want to monitor over the next three weeks. Is Tatum involved or no? He is not. No. Okay. Well, can we talk about the Tatum thing quick? Because this one minute video came on. And I know you, you know, you have some Celtics birdies as well. This whole Tatum rehab thing with how fast they got the surgery and them never closed in the door, but them also not wanting to talk about anything. And I don't know. man, he looked pretty good running around.

And I just wonder, are we going to see him? What's your instinct? My instinct was that that was AI generated. It made absolutely no sense. He's running up and down the court. How many months after rupturing his Achilles? Like, there's the clip of him sprinting, like, over half court. How is the human body able to do that?

I don't understand it. I'm sure you heard similar things, but the Celtics, they're not positive about this, because no one will ever know. But it was potentially the fastest ever Achilles' surgery after a rupture in human history. That is something that I've heard. And so they don't know what exactly that will do to the human body and the impact that could have. But that video was wild. I did not anticipate seeing that.

You know, I said that during the, at some point on a pod, maybe last spring. I think people didn't think I was serious that this weird slate of events where he gets injured in New York where the guy who does the surgery better than anyone in the world is in New York. So he didn't have to fly

and he was on the operating table 10 hours after the surgery. I think it's correct. I don't think that's ever happened before. Sometimes it's like a week or it's like you have to wait to have to wait until the swelling goes down. So who knows?

It's this injury that just you know, when I was growing up, Only a couple people would get it. And it was always felt like a death sentence. You know, like their career was never going to be the same. Now it feels a little more common, but I don't know. It seems like it all of a sudden, ACL injuries, people are coming back in 10 months. And that seemed crazy.

So maybe the timetable will speed up. I don't know. Can I ask you, do you think that this is a good thing? I don't unless he's, he'd have to be 100% for like two months. I would not be like, oh, it seems like he's okay. Let's get him out there. I think it would have to be one of those things where he's scrimaging with the team you know in December, early January and he's doing that for two months and there's a point

where it's like, well, if he's going to work out every day anyway, why wouldn't he just play? You know, but I would be so on the side of being careful versus they don't have a center. I don't even really have a, I don't know who the leading rebounder is going to be. I don't know who the rim protector is. It's not like this is a good team, but the east after the, you know, top. four is so bad. They might be in the six to nine range anyway. I don't know. I think that it's dependent on how good the team is. And even then, I would probably be extremely cautious, over-cautious with his body and his future because I don't think they're winning the championship

this season. They got rid of Drew Holiday and Chris Debs-Swerzingis. That's just not on the table. A playoff run is not on the table, even if Tatum was 100% healthy. So I would, I would be extremely cautious with him. I would be, I don't know, stop short of making an announcement that he's not going to play to quell suspicion and talk and rumors throughout the year. If that's a thing that lingers. He's, he's too competitive. He's not going to be like, yeah, cross it off. He's, I guarantee he's like, I'm going to be back. I'm going to be back. And that's all he's thinking. But, you know, I just don't know enough about, there's two types of Achilles surgeries, apparently. And he got the one where they really repaired it. Because you can get the other one where you can

cheat it a little and maybe you can go back faster. He got the real. pair. So I guess we'll see. It makes me obviously super duper, duper nervous to think of him coming back if he wasn't 100%. Because as you said, they're not winning the title this year. No. There's no say, he could come back and be last year's Tatum in April and they're still not winning the title. So I would take it easy. I still, I'm in the side, like the over under for them on Fando, I think is 41. I'm on the side of, I just can't imagine Missoula rolling over. The guy's a complete maniac. They had this system in place. They have good guards. They're going to shoot a ton of threes. And I just think they're, you know, Jalen will obviously be,

be having a feast every day, taking 28, 30 shots a game. But I think they're going to hang around a lot of games and probably be a little better than people think. I can see that path. I understand it. Missouri will be, I feel like it wouldn't be shocking to see him. wheeled out onto the court in the Hannibal Lecter mask at some point during the season. But you look at the roster and I just think the defense, the rebounding, there's so many just like porous elements of this team that can't be fixed. And it's just Tatum is, he's a top five player. And removing him alone makes you an average basketball team, I think.

And so I think this is going to be a pretty bad. team. And I would bet the under if I were gambling, a gambling person. Interesting. Yeah. I just think they're going to shoot so many threes, the variants of every, like betting a random Celtic game would not be recommended. Because they're going to probably try to shoot 63s a game and just get as many up. Yeah, the thing with Tatum, it's not just the points and, you know, all the ball handling and stuff. It was all the other shit he was doing. He was their best rebounder. He was their best defender. They could play big with him. He was a Swiss Army knife and all over the place. You're not.

replacing that. All right, I asked you to do five things that you're monitoring for these next three weeks, things that will help shape what you're looking for with the 2025-26 MBA season. We're going to go from five to one to your biggest one. So what's your fifth one? How good can the Golden State Warriors actually be? They are top of mind right now for me, and I think everyone, just because of the recent activity that we've seen. Now that the moves, we kind of knew three. throughout the offseason that some of the stuff was going to happen. But now that it's official, you can kind of grade it out.

You mean the Corford and Al Horford, Gary Payton the second, De Anthony Melton. It just feels more solid and real and worth analyzing after a summer where so little was nailed down and you had the Jonathan Cumminga stalemate. They had like seven guys on their roster. It didn't feel like a real team. And the way that they lost in the playoffs with Steph Curry getting hurt after playing 45 minutes in game 7 against the Houston Rockets, it just didn't seem like regardless of what they did that they could actually make another lengthy playoff run. But now that I, now that I'm seeing the

rotation, I don't know, I kind of like this team. And I'm charting it out as in a best case scenario where Al Horford, who now that he's officially on the Golden State Warriors, I think he might be in the conversation for best free agent signing of the off-season. He's just tremendous. 58 out-horford games, but they'll be really high level each game. Right. He's tremendous. He fits in.

He can play out of the pocket, spot up threes. Like, if he shoots 40% behind the three-point line, he provides, you know, the top-tier level defense that he does on his best nights and his best stints. I just think that that is a humongous addition and, like, a huge upgrade over the center rotation that they had last year with Chase Jackson Davis and Quentin Post and playing Dream on at the five. But now you have more options and versatility. So I just, I love that addition. And look, I think the comminga thing is kind of its own side conversation. But I feel for some reason optimistic that they will come to some sort of mutually beneficial conclusion

here and get him out of there and replace them with anyone. Like Malik Monk, Royce O'Neill, Those names that I saw, honestly, I would be thrilled if I was to Golden State Warriors because I think that those are better fits for what they're trying to do in the short term. Yeah, last year they were playing Quentin Post in that spread the floor spot that now they're going to have Al Horford, who's an NBA champion and headed to the Hall of Fame. So the vibes will be better. Like, he's probably the most beloved Celtic teammate of all time. They'll have Butler for a full year.

the comming a thing's weird like i thought it was weird that cur and uh and dunlavy didn't speak at media day because they didn't really seem like they wanted to answer questions about it this is just so adversarial for just something that's part of the cb a right you can either sign a guy when he's got one year left or you just rolled into the next season he takes the qualifying offer and you go and like when it got to the point like his agents going on a podcast to complain about it Like, this is, your union signed up for this. This is how it goes. They don't want to sign them for that kind of money and play it out.

So it feels like it's going to be really adversarial, and I don't really understand it, because the best thing for him would be to just kick ass. And either he gets trade or he gets a contract. Well, but Kerr is just on the record in various forms that he doesn't really like Jonathan Cominga for this team. So I just, when are we going to end this and rip the Band-Aid off? Like, it just, I feel like it's a divorce and it's just kind of, it's lingering. The problem is probably Kerr probably shouldn't have said anything.

He probably shouldn't have said anything. And then also, if you watch the Golden State Warriors, whenever Jonathan Cominga misses a defensive rotation or shoots a shot when he should have passed it, Kerr is like throwing the clipboard against the ground. So it's just, you can see the frustration with the coaching. with him. It was funny, he was putting up stats to that Minnesota series. Meanwhile, they're getting waxed every day.

And that might be who he is. He just might be a good stats, bad team guy. And that's Jonathan Comingo, which is why I think people are pretty lukewarm trying to trade for him. He's the type of player that I just don't know how to value anymore in this market. Because if you're paying him 22, 24 million a year with this apron and how stingy you kind of have to be with guys that aren't your best guys. just don't know where you're going.

That was the Josh Giddy conundrum, too, for Chicago. They ultimately gave them right around there. But it's that like $18 million. That's why the Clippers traded Norm Powell. It's that $18 million to $26 million range seems really confusing for teams right now. Because you're better off just getting a guy making $5 million who's 80% as good as Jonathan Kaminga, you know? Yeah.

And I just don't think he's a good fit for that team. And based on the timeline of where they all. It just doesn't make sense. The giddy with Chicago made sense, I guess, you could argue because of where the bulls are, which is, I mean, that's a different conversation. The bulls are going nowhere and doing nothing. Well, he helps them go 40 and 42 and get the 10 seed. Very good point.

You got to lock that down. Yeah. So it's just a different situation. And I personally, if I was running a team, would stay clear of Jonathan Kamika. I would too. What's your number four? My number four is, when will Laurie Markinen get? traded. So I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago in Theringer.com.

You had the team that I had been thinking about all summer in that piece. Yeah. I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall advocating for a trade that would send Lowry to the Detroit Pistons. It's the most logical trade of the year. I couldn't agree more. And I just think that they should do whatever it takes, considering how poor the Eastern Conference is with the Celtics down, the Pacers down, considering, you know, they have this, they have Jaden Ivy, who's this question mark, who's due, contract extension eligible, is he a good long-term fit with Cade Cunningham and Asar Thompson, who I think are your best two young players, Jalen Duren also. And the other side of that track is a guy who just

compliments everyone perfectly. He is like one of the better sidekicks you can get in the league, I think. I know his contract is incredibly pricey, and they're going to have to start paying their young talent pretty soon. Detroit is. But I would just, I would swing and I would go for it because he's in his prime. He's 20, Lowry marketing, in his prime, I think he's 28 years old. And he doesn't need the ball to make other guys better.

I think he's one of the more ideal pieces that you could add if you are a team like Detroit that is ascending right now. So I would, I would, I just want it to happen so bad. I want to see it. Well, he can, he can shoot, he can space and shoot. He can roll to the rim on anything. Like, it feels to me like that, like him and Cade would be perfect together. The bigger question for me is, why is he still on Utah when they clearly don't care about that?

I mean, they're just, they gave away Colin. Sexton. They gave away Collins. They've been this way station for all these dudes that, I don't know. I mean, I like a couple of the guys. I thought sensible. I looked pretty good last year. But for the most part, I don't really know what that team is. How many of those guys will even be in the team three years from now? And all he's going to do is hurt them as they try to get another high pick, right? So is the question for me is like, it's probably a little more than the Bain trade, right, for what they get for them? It's probably a player plus at least three picks. So it's like Ivy plus three first and a swap. Like that's the plus contracts are

in there too. Plus we know, yeah, Tobias Harris would be involved for sure. Um, he's expiring. Oh, poor Tobias. He's probably dreading it. Do you think he's been on Reddit in Salt Lake? Like we're just looking at condos. Um, yeah. So just a tier. reading my column. Yeah, so I think that it just makes so much sense for him to go there. But as you said, the price plus the fact that, you know, Danny Aange and Austin Ains are the ones who are negotiating this and they're notorious for particularly Danny, notorious for having his price

and not budgeting from it until a team gets there. And we don't even know if he likes Jaden Ivy. If he doesn't like Jaden Ivy, then there's nothing to talk about. plus the prospect of paying jade and ivy immediately uh so it's plus he's coming off a pretty major injury i mean they said he's 100%

everything but yes i mean laurie's making 46 tobias is 26 he can patch the rest of those together tobias and ivy together ivy's probably has an asset

better than any of the guards they have you know oh absolutely the conundrum of all right is he worth the $100 million, is it worth $120 million? I would probably want beef stew in the trade, but I don't, I wouldn't give them up if I'm Detroit, if I'm getting Lowry, because now I feel like

I can actually like make a run at the east. I like that thing. Like, if you have Cade and Lowry is your top two down the stretch in a playoff series, like that's, you're in the mix. I don't know if you're better than the next, but you're in the mix.

They're not in the mix right now. Who they almost be? Without beef stew, without Ivy. Of course, the Knicks made some moves, but... Yeah, true. Has he said anything, Markinen? Has he just been like... I have not seen him comment on it beyond the...

I love Utah. I love being here. He's happy there. He's happy with his family there. I just think coming off of Eurobasket, being super competitive, being a guy who has never played in the playoffs. Like, at some point, is that true? He's never played in the playoffs.

He's never had one playoff game? Not a minute, not a minute, not a minute. Oh, my God. So at what point do you, are you sick of what's happening in this? Like, how many losing seasons can you go through if you're Lowry marketing where your team is getting fined because you have questionable issues that are keeping you on the sideline and away from basketball action? So, yeah, I just, at some point, I feel like. he will get a, I don't know, disgruntled is probably who's strong of the word, but he will put out the flyer that he wants to play competitive basketball.

Yeah, it's a little different than somebody being mad that their team can't win the title. This is like, can I just be on a decent team that gives a shit about six months of the season? Can that happen? I'm with you. This is one of the more obvious ones in a while, And I don't know what the mechanics of the trade would actually be, but something's there. And whether they, if I'm Utah, Thompson has to be in it and not Ivy. Well, that's a no-go for me. Really? It's a no-go for you.

He's untradable for me. Untradable. Well, in this context, yeah, he's untradable. Yeah, give up something and get something, though. That is very true. I'm extremely high on a star Thompson, who I think we could see really special. things out of this year. Already one of the better perimeter defenders in the entire league.

Already one of the most athletic players in the entire league. Well, that's why I want him. I'm from Utah. If I'm Detroit, I'm not doing it. I have to keep him and I have to keep Kade. I'll talk about everybody else. Yeah, yeah. I think we're on the same page.

Although I'd probably want to keep Darren, too. I don't know why Utah would want him anyway. Now it's time for a very special segment of the show. It's called Perfect Balance, brought to you by our friends at McDonald's. I love McDonald's. Perfect balance. Let's talk about a duo operating in a professional sport

that just seem like they're made for each other. It's got to be Stafford and Pooka and Akua right now for the Rams because it's weird. Stafford had this with Cooper Cup and he had that legendary best start to finish wide receiver season ever. And then just Cup came in became the 2.0 version of it.

And when you watch those guys, it doesn't matter. Third and three, third and eight, third and 13. It just always feels like Pooka's going to get open and Stafford's going to find them. And they are in perfect, perfect sync. The best I've ever seen for this was Montana and Rice. Any big game, you just felt like Rice was getting open and Montana was finding him.

Not saying Stafford and Nacour like Montana and Rice. But right now when you're watching football, the connection those two guys really stands out, really special. Anyway, that's it for the addition, this edition of Perfect Balance. Our special segment brought to you by McDonald's. And if you want to taste perfect balanced McDonald's, special edition gold sauce, sweet, smoky, tangy, made just for chicken. It's making me hungry just talking about it. Taking that delicious snack wrap, McCrispy sandwich or McCrispy strips to Golden New Heights, McCrispy.

It just sounds just making me hungry. Available for a limited time at participating restaurants. All right, what's number three? number three is uh so this deep versatile highly skilled and experienced version of the denver nuggets just how great will they be um i can't wait to watch the denver nuggets this season i that's my number one this year i am so excited uh like not to spoil anything but i'm picking them to win the title and not really thinking twice about it uh they've been the best in the NBA the past few years whenever Yokic is on the court and the past couple of years,

particularly last season, it felt like he was doing it with one arm tied behind his back. And now you give him a solid backup center with Jonas Valanchunis. You add Bruce Brown, Jr., old friend from the finals team, you get Tim Hardaway, Jr., solidifying the bench, giving yourself more crunch time options. The more I think about the Cam Johnson, Michael Porter, Jr., trade, the more I I like it for the Denver Nuggets just on the court in the short term. I just think he's a fantastic fit. And he gives you things as a ball handler and a play creator that Michael Porter Jr.

just doesn't. You can go tip for tat about who's a better shooter, who's a better movement shooter. And you can talk about the years of chemistry that are baked into the relationship with all those DHS that MPJ had with Yokic. I just think Cam will pick up right where MPJ kind of left off in that role and be awesome and he can play with Yokic on the bench and I think boosts the offense a little bit

that's another thing. I'm looking forward to watching so I... Well, the other piece with that is he's not a health risk. Porter had the back issue forever. Last year he had the shoulder issue and it's just like, I'm not positive I'm getting eight months at him.

Cam Johnson, I feel way better. about just knowing that he's going to be there in April, May, and June. Porter, I think his body really makes me nervous, especially at $40 million a year. Yeah, that's definitely a huge factor. So I know they only won 50 games last year. Like, I don't know how crazy I want to get with this, but I feel like this can be a 61, 62, 63 win team. Do you feel the same way? Like, how optimistic are you about the Nuggets?

you're preaching the choir they're 54 and a half on fandole right now um their 60 plus odds are plus 320 which i think is a live bet because we've never seen them with a bench before also last year you mentioned they win 50 murray was an absolute mess for the first six weeks of the season right and figure he'll come back they wouldn't have played international he'll be healthier and uh and i think their coaches i think that situation is going to be better i was really impressed by Adelman last year in the playoffs. I think they really like him, too. I think the Malone thing kind of burned out.

I love everything they did. I haven't decided what I'm doing yet, but I'm either picking them or OKC to win. It's got to be one of those two teams in my mind. And we've already seen Denver can go toe to toe to toe with them. I really, I got to look at it more, and I got to look at the back-to-back stuff and factor in stuff like Jalen Williams

just not being hurt for four months last year. or, you know, which he was. He was hurt down the stretch. They hid the injury from us. Topitch, is he actually going to play for them? What is that going to do? What you have after you win the title, the confidence you have, which I just think teams are different in a good way after they win one.

And they're young. And usually when a team is trying to repeat, they're usually a little older and they start getting injuries. They're like fucking babies still, you know? So it's a tough one. But I think Denver, I think those are the two to pick. I'm with you. I cannot wait.

I'm really happy that they finally did some shit. It feels like I was looking at it. They still have a little room left to do maybe one more thing, whether it's like a buyout guy or maybe even get a little creative. They're not like over the second apron or anything. They got rid of that Porter money for Johnson and they added a couple guys, but like Hardaway's on a cheap contract, you know. Yeah, they're barely in the tax.

You're right. They're under the first apron, kind of way under the second apron. And they have an empty roster spot. So a little bit of flexibility. The guy I wish they had signed, and I could say this about five teams, is Yaviseli, who I just thought was such a great pickup by the next. I just really like him. And I think, like, I didn't understand why San Antonio didn't get him.

And they spent like 10 million a year on Cornet. God bless Cornette, but I would just rather have Yabaselli for half the price. but I think Yabasel is just a playoff guy and I thought he would have been good for Denver two. What do you have for number two? Number two, I don't want to get judged too harshly with this one. Is there any chance the Red Van Fleet injury ends up being a blessing in disguise for the Houston Rockets?

Whether they find out Reed Shepard is actually way better than they thought Thompson can handle the ball. You run it through more. Yeah, there's some stuff. There's a case. There's a case. You know, I heard you talking about this right after the injury happened, and I was nodding along listening to you and Zach talk about it and specifically talk about how, you know, the development of Amman Thompson and Reed Shepard and the Young Pieces was not really the point of the season. The point of the season is to contend for a championship and win it.

You just signed Kevin Durant and the time is now, and I get that. Um, you know, I've come around and I'm just like, maybe I'm overthinking this, but just considering the size of this team. And if you play like at Amin Thompson, uh, Jabari Smith Jr. Kevin Durant, Alperin, Shangoon, Stephen Adams starting lineup, which is something I think you may O'Duka said was a possibility, um, at Media Day. That is like, have we ever seen any basketball team that huge? How do you match up with that? Like, how? I don't understand how anyone gets a rebound except the Houston Rockets when they're playing their starting five. Like, I think it's, it's, there's just so much intrigue with them in terms of, you know,

you take out Jalen Green, who I thought was a minus in a lot of ways. You add KD still to kind of boost up the half court offense. I'm just really intrigued by Amman Thompson. I think he can be one of the more special highlight reel type of forces we've seen in quite some time given his size and just. And he's somewhat a monitor too over the next three weeks. If he starts like there's a GQ feature, he launches his new Cologne. I just, I hope he's, I hope he's more basketball centric and that this is my time. Here I am.

I want to see him. Can you make like 13-M-B-A before you add like the 17 things off the court? That would be my hope for him. Sure. I think we're aligned there. Yeah. Just third team on NBA. And I love Shangoon so much.

I loved him for a long time and watching him in Eurobasket. So were you a Eurobasket guy? No, I'm not a Eurobasket. I need my rest and relaxation guy. Yeah, because apparently the Eurobasket stuff with him is out of control. But I'm the same as you. I need to decompress for basketball in the summer. I think just like the depth of this team.

I know Doria and Finney Smith is hurt right. now. But I forgot he was on the roster until I was checking out Media Day. Aaron Holiday is like a stop gap, can be a stopgap point guard who gives you a solid 10, 15 minutes a game. I'm really high on Reed Shepherd. I like him a lot. And I think this is a fantastic opportunity for him throughout the course of this season. I think we could see him contributing in ways that are different in March and April than they are in in October and November. So I love this team still. I sound like I'm not really an appreciator of Fred Van Fleet. I am. I just think that how the team is built can still withstand that entry to a

certain extent. And by the time we get to the playoffs, they will have figured out some stuff about themselves that I think is crucial to surviving multiple playoff rounds in the Western Conference. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, my big point was, when we get to these playoffs and you have to play okay seer in minnesota and if you don't have a true ball handler i'm just going to be nervous it's fair and that's the thing with reid who after we did that pod with zach a friend of mine who's uh who loves basketball and is involved in the league texted me and said he saw read at summer league playing and said he played like a rich spoiled kid at an a u tournament that made me nervous that's pretty pretty pointed scouting

report. It's where all of our guys really loved him heading into the draft, which we're usually not like way, way off, you know? Everybody's like, yeah, there's some Mark Price here. Now, the draft was weird. I don't think he would have been the third pick in a normal draft. I think in last year's draft, he probably would have been in the probably six to nine range. But we'll see. He's the X factor. I think it would be interesting because we'll know in December, January with him, whether he's actually going to be able to play. Like, like, like, Pritchard, not to compare two white guys with vaguely similar games, but I'm going to. Pritchard, there was that moment where they were like, he's going to play more this year.

We're going to start using him. And then he actually, you know, he had the sixth man. But there was a moment there with Pritchard where we were like, what is this guy? Is he, do we just like him because he comes in and is a heat check guy? Or is there really something here? Maybe we'll find out with Shepard. I don't know. The other thing with Houston that I haven't heard a lot of people talk about is just,

Durant has moved into this Aaron Rogers-Lebron area where he's just been in the league for so long. We just assume he's going to be the same every year and his stats are relatively the same. But at some point, it becomes unrealistic for a seven-foot guy nearing his 40s to just be what we're expecting from Durant. And I don't know what that year is. He said he was open to the extension,

which kills the Saudi Arabian League because I think he was one of the guys that was probably going there if they had it. But I just don't know what he looks like next year, three years from now. Is this going to be the last good Durant year? I don't know. I will say real quick. I like the fact that Houston Rockets are built to preserve Kevin Durant, like preserve his body.

Like, he's not going to be playing in the interior defensively at all. That's a really good point. Yeah, because he was almost tied to Brooklyn and Phoenix. Yeah, you're right. He was probably Phoenix's best defender last season, which really says a lot about, their situation and why they were so poor. But yeah, I just think it's a really great well-constructed team. And I think to answer the whole point of this exercise,

I'm just super interested in seeing how it looks on the court with this, just being so huge. Like, Tari Easton is like one of the better wing offensive rebounders in like NBA history. I can't wait to see it. It's just going to be a lot of fun. You sound like you're going to watch some Rockets preseason. What do you got for number one? I think that this is the most important question in the league from a big picture standpoint.

Where and how will Victor Wembeyanama be better this season? It's just like are his post moves going to be tighter? Is it going to shoot 40% behind the three point line? Is he just going to be quicker reads in the pocket? I don't know if you saw it, but he's officially listed at 7.4 now. They're still lying. He's 7.6. Why are they do this?

He's definitely seven foot six. It's clearly the biggest person in the league. And just, I mean, I don't need to explain why Victor Webbenjam is awesome. But adding more sensible pieces around him, I know Deeran Fox is this like nagging injury that's kind of a bummer and could derail a little bit of the beginning of the season. But still, when Dylan Harper gets back, when Fox is back, they still have Bissell. I like the Luke Cornett signing a lot, and I feel like a lot of the talk at Media Day with the Spurs was just how excellent their defense is going to be. And I agree with that. I mean, top five defense is in the cards for them this year.

And I want to see just how Victor evolves offensively to the point where, you know, last year, San Antonio's offense was the exact same with him on the court and off the court. and obviously the roster is a little bit different now but I just want to see the offensive rating go to a top 10 in the league tier when he's on the floor and I feel like that is already possible and I'm not going to spoil where I had him in my top 100 but by the end of the year

I think he could get even higher and there's not too many players that he can jump over 44 and a half for them at all the teams in that range I think that's the one you have to stare at as who could make the big jump that we aren't expecting and it basically comes down to if he's just on the court for six months

with all these athletes and all this defense they're going to have and finally a little bit of size I like cornet too I just I would have just rather had Yabaselli who played with him in France for half the price but they have cornet they had the money to do it he'll be able to play with Wemby, I think, a little bit.

Wemby's talked a big game about the training he's done. He shaved his head. Yeah, you're probably right. They're probably the biggest floor ceiling team. But if you think, like, who has the most floors between their ceiling and their basement? They probably have the most floors. Because there's also the, can Wembe play a whole season? Yeah, absolutely.

I think that this- Do you trust him? What would you move over under for games for him? I was like, I don't know, 65, 62? At this time of year, I'm always just an eternal optimist, and I assume everyone's going to play 82 games. So that's where I'm at. And he talked a lot about, yeah, you mentioned it,

the off-season training and no one worked harder than me this summer. And I don't know, like, he's already the best defense. a player, but there's still so much that he can get better at defensively. And obviously, like, offensively, still so high impact. I mean, I always think about just him at MSG on Christmas Day and the show he put on. And it's like, we're going to get to a stage where that is consistently who we see. And I just want to see when that happens. And this is year three.

A leap could be coming. If it does, San Antonio Spurs could be extremely dangerous. And they have some pieces if they want to get frisky, December, January range. It's interesting. On Fandul, he has tied for the fourth best MVP odds already. Him and Yannis are about 12 to 1. They're behind SGA and Yokic and Donchich. But better odds in Edwards, it gets really kind of dumb after that.

All of a sudden, Durant's 50 to 1. He has the sixth best odds. Kate Cunningham, Brunson, Mitchell. It's really a four-person MVP race with Wembe and Edwards as the wildcards. Edwards as a wild card only if Minnesota, for some reason, went like 65 and 17, and he was just incredible.

That would be the way for him. Janice, I mean, Wembe, they're 54 and 28. He's defensive player of the year. He plays 72 games and puts up, what, 25, 10 and three with five blocks a game. I don't know.

There's some case. I'm excited to watch him with Fox, too, because we just didn't get it at all. I didn't really know what it looks like. Only five games last year, yeah. Yeah. Harper, I don't know how much he's going to help them this year because he's pretty raw,

but it'll be fun when he comes in, you know. But it's, and he's been at every stage of his life, he's been one of the best players at whatever level he's been on. So I found her to believe he's just not going to play this year. You'll hear from him. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting team. I think that's a good first choice.

I think I agree with it. The only one I would have, the only one I would have added is the, I'm really interested, even in the preseason with how Dallas is going to use flag. Mm-hmm. And I don't think they even know what they have yet, and they're doing this point forward. And I just, to me, I wouldn't have him dribbling the ball. I wouldn't have him handling the ball like that that much. I would be using him as this crazy Swiss army knife all over the floor,

playing big lineups small and just kind of take advantage of him as a two-way guy. I'm going to be interested to say how much they throw at him, especially with Kyrie not back yet. Yeah, I think that's an interesting one. And, you know, Dallas has so many different types of lineups that they can play even with Kyrie out. Right. And if you play Cooper Flag as your point guard,

uh you know or if you don't play him as your point guard i should say then does clay thompson come off the bench is he happy about that um does anthony davis play the five more instead of this really eternally frustrating commitment to the four with gafford and lively constantly um or do you play a center with ad and flag as your front line to you and then you just play clay and dlo or you play clay and p j washington and you have flag dribble the ball up like they do have like some crazy lineup options and i have no idea how they're going to play it um because i think flag for his age remember how long it took for tatum to even figure out how to be a point forward it took him like probably four years to even

be able to consistently handle pressure and things like that his rookie year he was just running in corners and not doing anything he was a spot of shooter yeah yeah um so just to ask flag come in to the hardest league in the in the planet and and you're going to handle the offense? I don't know. Maybe you can do it, but I'd be surprised. And apologies to Conniple for not making your top five. I was really excited.

I thought about it, you know, gave him a long look. Just couldn't fit him in, unfortunately. I don't know who my league pass favorite is going to be for the bad 4 p.m. PT games between Charlotte or Washington, but they're both in the mix. Because Washington's just a freaking fantasy team. I don't know what, I don't know what's going to happen with them, but I'm kind of excited to watch them. And then Charlotte has the makings of maybe being okay, you know?

Who knows? Yeah, Charlotte has my attention. 13 and 7, you know, to start the first 20 and they're talking like, Lamello's figured it out and all that. Who knows? All right, Michael Pina. Look forward to read you on The Ringer and seeing you and listening to you on all of our shows. Good to see you.

Thank you. Thanks, Bill. All right, Craig Horlebeck is here just back from the streets of Ireland, where he was with the fantasy football crew going to see Stewards Vikings, your favorite team, the Steelers? What was the overseas football experience like? Not just Ireland, but just in general,

the whole thing. Tell us. It was way better than I thought it was going to be. It felt like the Super Bowl there. It was the first game in Ireland, obviously, and the Steelers being there was a big deal particularly. Like the Rooney's and the Steelers

really pitched Goodell specifically on going to Ireland. Dan Rooney, who was the son of Art Rooney, the founder of the Steelers, was the U.S. ambassador to Ireland under Obama. So, like, there's a lot of connections between Steelers and Ireland, and it was crazy. I mean, I, 90% of the people walk in the streets were wearing Steelers jerseys. There was very little Vikings action there.

So it was awesome. Like, the whole atmosphere, it honestly felt like I was at the Super Bowl. Wow. Because we took the Vikings in Ringer 107 last week, and then you texted me, yeah, it's all Stewards fancer. And I'm like, what? I had no idea that it was like basically Pittsburgh adjacent. Yeah, it was crazy.

There was a quote after the game from Patrick Queen, the Steelers linebacker, and he said that the atmosphere there was better than in Pittsburgh. Oh, my God. It was just like they should play there every year. What were the fans like? Like, were they the stereotype of, I'm 25% Irish so I could say this,

like a hard drinking, happy Irish crowd? Yeah. Like, were there things, did they seem like they knew the rules? Well, it was funny. Before the game started, they were like on the Jumbotron. They were teaching the fans the game. There was like, rule for like the first hour before the game. They were showing every like rule, every flag,

what each position does. So they were clearly trying to teach people what was going on. But luckily, I feel like the game had a lot of big moments that people who didn't even really know what was going on could be happy about. Like the D.K. Metcalf run, there was the Jalen Ramsey. We thought it was the fumble return for a touchdown. That was huge. People went crazy. So at least there was a lot of like big, easy to understand moments. But they must, I mean, there must have been 50,000 Irish people there that are now converted Steelers fans for life. Wow. I mean, did they seem like they had enough sophistication and realized that when the Vikings

lost two guys, that Carson Wentz was their QB, the game was over? That that was a wrap? They probably now know what Carson Wentz is all about. It was great because they really got a real masterclass of two coaches crumbling at the end of the game. O'Connell and Tomlin. They must have thought they were drunk on Guinness because the last four minutes. They probably didn't even really know how bad it was.

But also, it was a perfect NFL game because there were so much fun stuff, big plays, big moments. But then at the end of the game, there's all these tiny, ridiculous rules, like the Carson Wentz, getting thrown to the ground, but getting the intentional grounding call. People were confused by that. There was like the Kevin O'Connell onside kick. It was kind of the perfect NFL experience. I feel like for the Irish fans there, they got a little bit of everything. What was the dominant Steelers jersey? in Ireland.

Please don't tell me Aaron Rogers. Watt. Okay. Yeah. Watt was everywhere. I got to say, I was very little Ben Rathesberger jerseys these days.

Interesting. I know. There was a, he was there, Bettis was there. There's a lot of Steelers guys there. It's all Watt. And then a little bit of Rogers

sprinkled in. People like Rogers right now. Like the players like Rogers. I know there's a lot, like a lot of people in media don't like him. But I think a lot of players like Rogers. He was,

he met Aaron Jones after the game on the field. And, like, they all love Aaron Rogers. So it's interesting that there's such a, I think it might be the biggest split between media perception and then what players actually in the locker room feel about a guy.

Do you Pittsburgh Steelers fan, Craig, like Aaron Rogers? Have you gotten there yet? You're three and one. You're in the catbird seat in the NFC and the AFC North, which I want to talk about in a second. But you were, it took you a while to come around on this one,

and then you kind of had to blindly come in because it's your team. But have you come around? I mean, right now, yeah. How can I not? They're three-in-one. Rogers is playing good. Vibes are high. The schedule's about to get horrific, so it might turn very quickly and angry Rogers. Like, Rogers, it's a lot more fun, his antics when they're winning. If they go like one in four over their next five, the vibes might kind

of drastically flip. But right now, yeah, he's playing good. They're using him well, I think. Like, it's a lot of quick hitting stuff, but he's getting the ball out quick. They're using D.K. Metcalf, like, Debo Samuel. They're just like, they're not running him down the field that much anymore. They're just getting him the ball, you know, two yards down the field and letting him run and pick up steam. It's like a bunch of tight ends and heavy offensive line sets. I think the Arthur Smith-Rogers thing is actually working a little bit better than everybody thought. Rogers is kind of playing ball with Arthur Smith and actually like doing some of the things that Arthur Smith wants, like taking the ball under center and stuff.

So it's nice to see right now. Well, it was really frustrated to go against when my team played them because I just felt like he was only, he can only do two things anymore, but he does something really well. Yeah. And the defenses haven't seemed like they've figured out the quick stuff. You said the schedule does get harder. They still have some good teams left. They have Green Bay left, Indianapolis, the Chargers, Buffalo, Detroit.

Yeah. They got Baltimore twice. So they're three and one. I was trying to figure out, well, there was a lot of dirt poured on the Ravens this week. Lamar went out. They've lost all of these defensive starters, including a couple for the year. I don't know where their pass rush is. They're a little top heavy now from a salary cap standpoint.

And they're one in three, which is usually. not a good sign for a possible playoff team. The thing is, I was looking at their schedule because I said on Sunday, because I had in my head, I thought they had a tough schedule, but it was really tough in the first month, then it died a little bit. They had three straight home games. Then basically they play all non-playoff teams except for Pittsburgh until week 15, whereas Pittsburgh has a much, much tougher slate.

The bigger question to me is it's just a bad division, because since he's bad and Cleveland's bad, and maybe neither of these teams are good. Maybe this is just like the AFC South this year. Yeah, I mean, Lamar's going to be out. It looks like for at least a couple weeks. So even though they're playing the Texans, the Rams, and then the Bears, which is tough because they can probably lose a lot of those games. But you're right.

I mean, I still think it's likely that if he comes back in two, three weeks, dolphins, Vikings, Browns, Jets, Bengals, Steelers, Bengals, they're going to have to go like eight and one, eight and two down the stretch to make the playoffs, which I definitely honestly think they will. But the Browns, it looks like are. starting Dylan Gabriel now, burrows out. This, to me, it's like the Steelers, it's all going to kind of end up, I think,

the way everybody expected. It's just going to be a different path there. Like, I think the Steelers will end up with like nine or ten wins. It's unbelievable. Be a wild card team. I finally went under on them. I couldn't take it anymore. 41-year-old Rogers. I was like, I can. I'm out, guys. And some other three-in-one, and they're just going to figure out

how to get to nine wins. Because six and eight gets up to that nine wins, six and seven. I mean, they were winning nine and ten games with Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph. How can they not do it Aaron Rogers. That feels easy. This is weird. Tomlin is just like he's like a family member for you at this point that just does weird shit every day. And you're just like, ah, that's Uncle Mike. Yeah. Just taking the delay a game on fourth and one for no reason at all and then punting in the end zone. I wish he could coach for three and a half quarters. And then we have a new coach for the

final quarter. They go closer. Yeah. Can we do that? Can we have two coaches for different quarters? That'd be great. That'd be amazing. Like whoever the best unemployed coaches, they just come in and they take it over um i the the the Cincinnati piece i didn't think they were going to be good anyway and then on monday night they were so bad i mean did you get back in time to watch the two terrible mondayette games no i was i was in the air but i was watching on my phone you didn't you missed nothing yeah you missed nothing um Cincinnati feels like this might be a wrap for them because they were so top heavy to begin with and now with with no offensive line and browning um it doesn't even matter that they have 60 million dollars of

receivers. And then Cleveland, at least Cleveland's defense is good. I don't know if they're going to figure out the quarterback situation in time. So, I mean, this might be a nine-win title champ. Definitely. Yeah, the Steelers have a real shot to win the division, but the schedule just gets so hard for them and it opens up so easily for the Ravens at the end that I think it's going to be close still. I'm looking up the odds. So you think, so Lamar's out, we don't know for sure. And there's still minus 150 and the Steelers are plus 190. now, which is under, you finally got into the 100s. I mean, 190's

not bad. You should probably take that. Well, how many, what do we really think with Lamar? Because these hamstring things always are two weeks longer than they say they are. I never trust the hamstring. Also, it's like worse for him than a different quarterback. Like, if he was Jared Goff with a tweaked hamster, it's like less, not that

big of a deal. With Lamar, I don't think Lamar in general, we were talking about this on the fantasy show. I feel like Lamar is slightly less athletic than he used to be, and you can kind of see it. And it's like all these guys, I mean, Mahomes is 30, which is weird in my head. He seems like he's 27. So Lamar's 38, Josh Allen's 29. All of these guys who are super physical, all these great runners, like we're in this new awesome era where half these quarterbacks are great throwers and runners. We don't really have a lot of like data on how running

quarterbacks age, like really good running quarterback's age. There's like a few guys we've seen it's like Michael Vic, but I think. Who did not age well, by the way. No. And like, I think Lamar's a good passer, but I do think that he is in a different phase, I think, athletically. Like, he's no longer outrunning linebackers as easily as he used to. He's not as twitchy, I think. So the hamstring, even if he does come back in a couple weeks, I don't know if he'll be the same.

Not to defend Lamar. It's possible he was heard already and the thing got worse. I noticed it too, but I think he's too young to be, like, moving into a, if it's like 33, it would be one thing. But it is interesting to watch somebody like, guy Drake May, who Sal DeRisively called Drake Maybe, which I still upset about it. Maybe he's good now.

It looks like. Maybe he's good, but he does seem really athletic. I don't know. If you think about like a running back, right? A running back around 28, 29 starts to enter a new phase of their career. And Lamar and Josh Allen, these guys are like, they're not running quite as much as running backs, obviously, but they're also runners.

So I don't think it's that crazy to think that when they're 28, 29, 30, maybe their passing is still like going on the way up. But the rushing, I think, will start to plateau, at least athletically. I think a good one for this is Steve Young, who unfortunately for him was playing in a different era where you would just get it absolutely annihilated. But Steve Young was like the best athlete of the 90s. And his career started later, so we had less miles on him. Let me look at this.

Yeah, I mean, Steve Young, he didn't start until he was, what, 30? Yeah, but he basically 30. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess that's a tough one. Yeah, there's not a lot because I'm trying to think of some other ones. I mean, Cam Newton, who is more physical as a runner, but still, like, he kind of was moved into a different phase by that late 20s. You might be right.

It's interesting theory. Peptimodera. This will be the first wave of dudes, though. I feel like Allen will be superhuman until he's like 35, 36. He's just too big. Yeah, he's got the size. That's the thing is he's not reliant on like the quick Twitch stuff. He's just like a freight train.

Are you back in on Mahomes? I mean, yeah, what he's doing with these receivers? He's making all the old Patriots receivers that got cut relevant. Tyquant Thornton and Juju Smith-Soucester and all that stuff. Xavier Worthy being back, and I didn't think he was going to be healthy or look good because that shoulder injury from week one looked bad, and I can't believe he was back so soon. He looked all right, and Rishie Rice is back in two weeks, and yeah, I think you have to be back. It's playing out the way it felt like it was fun to do the whole.

Oh, my God, the Chiefs. But it was like, all right, let's see what this looks like when Rice is back. The Thornton thing is a fun X factor. We all liked him on the Patriots. He just couldn't stay in the field. But it was clear like he was fast as shit. But he kept either getting hurt or dropping passes and they just gave up on him. Yeah, it looks pretty good.

Fun toy for them. We had the most traumatic fantasy injury we've had in a while last night with Tyreek Hill, who was having a really good game, too. He, of course, is on most of my teams. but that was one of those immediately it's over it feels like for the most part through this first month first month we haven't had a ton of like oh no my season's over injuries right that was the biggest one and neighbors yeah this week started a lot of them but no knock on wood last year the running backs were super healthy and everybody thought that

wasn't going to happen again and so far the running backs have been pretty healthy it's the quarterbacks who have been injured right well and the thing with the quarterbacks is if you don't have Allen or you don't have Lamar, there's like 10 other guys that are all around the same, right? And it doesn't, in our Yahoo fantasy draft that we did with that I'm O and 4. And I took all those quarterbacks. It was actually the right move. My mistake was building a team around Jemar Chase and Brian Thomas Jr.,

who apparently is in witness protection now. Are you starting to sweat in that league? Are you nervous? You're the only O'N4 team punishment is kind of looming. Of course. I mean, I built my team around. Two receivers who are underachieving and Brock Bowers, who it seems like he's either playing hurt

or being used as a second tight end. I know. I had a theory I wanted to pitch to you because of honestly based around all the injuries that are going on, I think fantasy should start after week four. I think that's the solution. I think you watch for a month

because there's no preseason anymore, basically. Nobody plays. So no one's, everyone gets hurt the first month of the season because they're not used to the physicality yet. Like they're not practicing in pads. They're not getting hit. first month everybody goes down everybody looks like shit and so many people's fantasy seasons are just

over already it's week four and it's like oh great i brian thomas is just terrible i had no idea malique neighbors just towards a jail burrows out for the season and it's like it's just a horrible experience if we all just drafted after week four it'd be a much more interesting situation in my i was in two guillotine leagues and i think that solves some of what you're thinking yeah because you can do the mid-season guillotine league. We lost the other one that I'm in that you're not in. We lost because we have Tyreek and Lamar. And it was just the unrecoverable double whammy.

But the bigger issue is having Kenneth Gainwell on the bench. And then waking up and finding out that he was actually starting. Regardless, the guillotine, I was way more invested in where we are. And did you survive and what do you do? And then the guys that come up, it's versus like the old school fantasy, where it just seems like completely random. I know. When you're 0 and 4 in a regular fantasy league,

you're just fighting to stay above water for the rest of the season. Yeah, it's like you've basically been guillotined anyway. Well, we did punishments for the Yahoo Fantasy League. And I was okay with the one I had, but now I'm starting to wonder about it's, does the winner, so I picked, I have to wear a jersey of a team that I absolutely hate. Yes, this is kind of your worst case scenario,

because you're right now in last and Sal is in first. So he gets to decide what you wear. Oh, Jesus. Who knows what he'll do? So, like, he could basically say, I don't know, where, we're like a LeBron Lakers jersey or wear a Roger Clemens, Yankee jersey, and then I would have to wear that on my podcast for a solid week.

Yeah. But I feel like I would deserve it because I did a bad job with the Fantasy League. I asked you to come up with your top five fantasy stories through four weeks. I don't know if we stepped them already, but let's go from five to one. What do you have for number five? So we're starting small and we're ending on the biggest? Yeah. All right.

So starting small, I got to say, I think fifth is just that a lot of these are rookie related because this was a big rookie hype season. I feel like there was a lot of rookies being drafted very highly in draft. Travis Hunter just being irrelevant, just a disaster. We joke on the fantasy show. We call them expensive Wondale Robinson. Yeah, I was very jealous of that bit. Yeah, it's almost insulting to Wando Robinson at this point.

He's like expensive Pop Douglas. He is. He's just like not playing, and he's the worst of both worlds. He doesn't play corner that much, and he doesn't play receiver that much. So I don't under, he's the 77th highest scoring wide receiver this year in fantasy, which feels impossible. But he, you know, he was being drafted before guys like Roma Dunzee, Abuca, Piersall. He plays 58% of the snaps.

he's like a backup tight end you know it's it's a disaster he's he doesn't really jump out off the tvs either like i thought he would i mean there's a disaster from a fantasy standpoint because people were drafting him like he was better than a bucco which was nuts um but there's the other piece where they traded up to two they gave away next year's number one pick and even worse they didn't take abdul carter like if they had traded up to two and taken abdul carter i'd be like all right i get it The guy looks like he's Michael Parsons 2.0, basically. Or even if they had taken Will Campbell, who's been awesome at left tackle, or they just stayed at five and they took Mason Graham,

who's been really good on the Browns. But they trade it up to take a guy that if you redrafted, there's no way he goes ahead of those three. I'm not sure he goes ahead of Gentie, especially after what we saw last week. I'm not sure if he goes at Membo and Banks, the two tackles that win the top 10. It's really rough.

Like, fortunately, there's no Jaguar fans to get mad about it, but holy shit. No, it's, they need to just give up. I think that they're trying to double down because they want to prove that it was worth it to trade up for him. So like, no, no, we're going to stick to the, he's going to play both sides of the ball thing because that's the only way we can explain having to trade away a first round pick to move up two spots. That's the only way you make the trade.

If you think you're getting two players, which is how they kind of, they soft sold that after the draft, like, look, this is like filling two positions. at the same time and it's it's feeling it's filling none it really was was you know that guy took over gladstone yeah who's like and it seemed like he went yeah and he wanted to make a big move and be splashy and gutsy but you know it's like putting a putting an indoor pool and like your two-bedroom house you know like look at this we can swim inside it's like all right cool we really do need a ranking of like the new gm new owners splashy move disaster power rankings we need a list of that like Ishbia coming in and just like signing Bradley Beale.

Like we need, we need a ranking of all of those. Well, the owners, it's pretty reliable. It's weird when the GMs do it. Like, if I'm getting a job, I'm like, man, I really want to do everything right these. He was like, ah, Travis Hunter. He's Dionne Sanders. Here are all our picks. Yeah, I mean, he's like 34.

He's been watching football for 10 years. Like, you know, Travis Hunter was probably the best player he's ever seen in his life. It's like, I'm taking that guy. Unbelievable. Well, that trade, we'll see. But it has the early makings of. and all-timer. All right, what's number four? Number four is Tyler Warren, the tight end on the Colts,

just immediately being a top five tight end in fantasy for the next decade. Yeah. It was week one. It was the first drive of week one, and he had three catches for 40 yards, and I think it was the quickest. I've seen all I need to see start to a career ever. I was like, it's it, it's over, he's good.

He's now immediately in the top five, because, I mean, Kittles hurt. Brock Bowers is banged up. McBride's been fine. It's like Tyler Warren might be the number one tight in the NFL right now. What's weird is we have a ton of good tight ends. Yeah.

And yet he really jumps out. I mean, it's so funny because when I was doing the Pat's preparation when they had the fourth pick and it was like, well, maybe we trade back two spots and we just take Tyler Warren because he looked amazing. Yeah. And then by the time the draft started,

it was like people stared at his tape too much and then they decided Loveland was better. Loveland went 10. And he fell out of 14, which is like, that's stupid. This guy's clearly a monster. I like when they line him up in the backfield. And then he's basically like, I don't know, almost like a sports movie, like a high school running back that's just way bigger than everybody else and just plows into everybody.

He's awesome. They treat him like Derek Henry in high school where he just like does everything. He ran in a touchdown last week. He was throwing touchdowns in college. He'll probably throw a touchdown this year. He's like Ladani and Tomlinson, but as a tight end, he can do everything. everything. Yeah, it's funny.

I really wanted to talk myself out of the Colts being a playoff team, but they should have won last week. They should be 4 and 0. And they just have a lot of skill. Like, Taylor, I think, is in the running for most talented running back. And he's certainly one of the best running backs this year. They have a bunch of receivers who can get open. They have Warren.

They have a good offensive play car. Like, I think it's legitimate. I thought they should have beat the Rams last week. That was a really stupid result. It's a really tough beat for Anthony Richardson. Like, the fact that the Colts are so good immediately. Like, they run in Daniel Jones, who, you know, I don't know, is a fine quarterback can run an offense. And they're like fucking awesome.

It's like, Jesus. How bad it was Anthony Richardson that this team is immediately a playoff team? So you're buying the Colts long term? Yeah, I think they're good. For fantasy purposes, too? Definitely. I mean, Michael Pittman's been really good and surprising. Jonathan Taylor's always been one of the best running backs in the league.

I mean, he looks great. He was amazing in college. and he's finally healthy. He just had a weird couple of years. He was suspended. He was hurt. Yeah. Yeah, the holdout always like kills these guys for a year.

I think we're going to have two AFC South playoff teams, the more I stare at it. And I, in Houston might be one of them. I'm still not willing to count them out because their schedule was tough early. They're one and three. Like they're right in the middle of this. They can, you know, they're, I think they're playing Baltimore. Aren't they playing Baltimore this week? Yeah.

Catching Baltimore or the backup, which, you know, on paper was supposed to be one of their toughest games and suddenly doesn't look as tough now. And then what was the other thing I noticed with them? Are you still in on Stroud? I don't know about C.J. Stroud anymore. It's been like a year and a half since he's been good. It's weird because they drafted these receivers and they kept Collins. And then I've heard the case that losing Tankdell was really important for him.

But I don't know. Should that completely change the course? your career that tanked out got hurt his offensive line can't block no but there's a lot of other quarterbacks don't have an offensive line that can block you know yeah yeah i don't know i'm starting to worry like brys young is still not very good so it still looks like cj trout was the right pick obviously but i don't know with him they're moving through offensive coordinators they're moving through offensive lines and none of them are seeming to work and it just goes to show you shouldn't you shouldn't start a podcast after your rookie season in the NFL it's a bad sign or do

Who, didn't he big bro? Who did he big bro? Caleb, yeah. Yeah, it felt like from the moment he did that, the wheels came off. I thought he was really good as a rookie, though. So we know. Oh, he was amazing.

Yeah. I just, I refuse to believe it's not in there. But yeah, every week, he does not jump out of the TVs and doesn't look awesome. All right, what's number three? Number three is Emeka Ibuka, just being the most obvious rookie that was going to be good. He's a top, he's the wide receiver seven in fantasy right now.

Wow. And I can't remember a wide receiver looking like a vet so quickly. Yeah. And it's just one of those classic things where Scataboo is kind of this way where it's these players who are obviously good in college, but they don't test well. And it's like, well, he was never the best receiver on his team. You know, there was all these other awesome Ohio Statewide receivers around him and, you know, at the combine.

Oh, you know, he's not the fastest. He's not, he can't jump the highest, all this stuff. But every game you watch, he's just like always good, always clutch, always delivers. These guys always work. It's like a Monroe St. Browns and Keenan Allen's, Chris Godwins, these guys who just... Pooka. Yeah, Pooka. We should let go the other way with the combine.

I want the guys who test poorly. If they were good in college and then they test poorly, I want them. Well, the fact that they named him captain before the year, that was crazy. We talked about him when we did our big fantasy, my guy, draft with D.K. And, uh... Right, he was your guy. And Danny. Yeah.

But it was like, you guys all had them, too. It was, you can kind of take. tell from the preseason when somebody just has it with the way everyone's talking about it. And what's weird is Brian Thomas Jr. was that guy last year. Yeah. And then I don't know what happened to him this year, but Egbuka seems like a little bit of a safer bet. I like the fact that Evans went out and he was still impactful against Philadelphia.

Like, you know, that was like, all right, he's got Mike Evans on the other side, but it didn't matter. He's just going to get his yards. What do you got for number two? Two, I have that Roma Dunezay and Caleb are quietly very good at fantasy. Rome, I think, is really good. Caleb, I think the jury's still out. We don't exactly know.

But in fantasy, I mean, it's working. Roma Dunezay is a top three-wide receiver in fantasy. Caleb is the sixth highest scoring quarterback right now, which I think people aren't really realizing. And even if they haven't looked that good, the Ben Johnson stuff for fantasy is working. And the schedule is so easy. I mean, we knew that going in, but, man, you know, they've already started out pretty hot in terms of fantasy. You look at their next four games. They play Washington, New Orleans, Baltimore, and Cincinnati.

I think, like, it's only going to get better. And, again, I'm still on the fence with Caleb. But the people who bet on them in fantasy and believed in Roman Dunes and Caleb Williams, it's working. It was a huge success. Yeah, it's funny. Josh Lamar and Mahomes are the top three in fantasy just for points right now. The next two are Drake and Caleb. Yeah.

the two second year guys. And I like Drake this year, especially because he's going to get the extra points with his legs. But Caleb, I loved. Yeah. And I think you're right.

I think even in a game where the bears kind of suck, I feel like he's still going to get points somehow. He'll still get to 20 in fantasy. Yeah, it's just so underrated what they play called. Like, there's two,

three times a game. There's just like a wide open receiver for Caleb to hit for 40 yards. Yeah. So. I'm in. All right, what's your number one?

Number one is just that the elite wide receivers have sucked. or been hurt. Like, it's a disaster at wide receiver. And if you look at the top, the top 15 guys drafted, like three of them have been good. And it's Puka, Monroost, St. Brown, and Jackson Smith and Jigra. The rest are a disaster. Brian Thomas and A.J. Brown, it's like DefCon, one for those two. Nico Collins, Justin Jefferson, Ladd McConkey, have been super underwhelming. Jamar Chase has not been great because Burrow got hurt. And then you have Tyreek is out for the season. Malik is out for the season. C.D. Lamb, high ankle sprain. It's just been a disaster. And it was the same way last year. A bunch of wide receivers got hurt last year.

And so the lesson is just as all like wide receiver is always super deep. And there's so many good wide receivers coming into the league now that you should just be taking quarterbacks and running backs at the top of your draft and just waiting on wide receiver because there's so many good ones. And you know, the talent is pretty flat. There are actually like a lot of really good wide receivers that you can get pretty deep. I think it's hilarious that Keenan Allen is a top 20 fantasy receiver he was one of those when somebody took him

and like oh man you almost felt bad for the pick yeah he didn't even get drafts it half the time yeah he got drafted in in our knockout league and I was just like oh man that's a reach he's he's done but we see these sometimes

the pickings one I think is the most surprising because even Quentin Johnston like he had enough flashes last year and the way they've been using Herbert like I'm not surprised he's putting up stats. I didn't personally like them. But Pickens,

I mean, you had him on the Steelers. Like, were you shedding tears when they traded him? No, because we got D.K. Metcalf and I thought that was a worthy trade-off. You can only have Pickens for three or four years, and then he's got to move on, I think, before he gets squirly.

But, I mean, the talent, he's incredible. He's, like, down the field stuff, the contested catch stuff. I mean, even just the amount of balls he caught that didn't land in bounds. Like he has, he's the number one wide receiver of all time of catches that were almost in bounds. He catches everything. I think talent's standpoint, he's great.

And honestly, C.D. getting hurt was like the best thing that ever happened to him because now he's happy and can rack up a bunch of stats. He's never had to keep me like, Doc either. Dak was putting the ball in places where he could do weird pick instincts. So if we were doing a fantasy draft right now starting week five and we did snake draft old school. Yeah. Jonathan Taylor is the first pick. right yeah it's probably the top three are probably jonathan taylor be john robinson and puka and i would take puka before bijon yeah so i'm getting 10 catches 90 to 140 yards every

week and probably a td but then you also have to deal with him going to the medical tent twice a game that's like the only downside you just see factor that in it's like there he is yeah i think he just goes in there to hang out i think he charges his phone yeah he's doing text yeah i think he's needs a breather. I mean, he catches so many goddamn passes. He needs to take a play off and relax. Fucking exhausted. So you think Bijan and then drop off after that? I mean, McCaffrey's been pretty

good, to be honest, but yeah. You know, it feels like fantasy is gravitating toward this a little more each year, but you know who's nice to having your team, Josh Allen? Yeah. He's just going to have more points than all the other quarterbacks, and he's not going to get hurt,

and it's the most important position out of all the fantasy things because you can always patch together and grab something weird running back and do this and oh RJ Harvey I'll grab him but Josh Allen just putting up 29 points a week can't beat it now Hertz Lamar Josh Allen

it's the stage but Hertz is an emotional toll with Hertz like he had 132 yards last week yeah but he's just push it into touchdowns the week it's tough though they had no completions at the second half yeah no you're right about Josh though every time somebody drafts Josh in fantasy. I think it was the week one, the Ravens game, when he had like 30 fantasy

points in the fourth quarter alone. I got a text from my buddy being like, I will be drafting Josh Allen every year for the rest of his career. Yeah. That's how everybody feels what they have him. He's like the most, when you're out with a group of friends and somebody orders something and then everyone else gets super jealous of it. Whatever that is, whatever restaurant you're at, they're like, oh, that looks good. I wish I got that. The person who gets the dessert. That's like, I should have gotten a dessert, damn it. Oh, the fucking crumble? That looks great. Why didn't I get that? All right, so that's your number one.

The wide receivers just being completely disappointing during a time when we're spending $50 on receivers. Yeah, it's a bloodbath out there. It's absolutely brutal. So just take Josh out. Like, Jamar was the first pick in a lot of drafts. In the ringer draft as well. Yeah. Well, the funny thing with that is Burrow, who gets hurt every year behind a horrible offensive line,

probably not a safe pick. No, I should have known. Oh, I have Chase attached to this guy who's going to just get the shit kicked out of him until he eventually goes in the blue tent. Yeah, but you could have said the same thing about Puka. I mean, Matt Stafford was getting epidurals. True. Well, that's why Puka fell.

Like, Puka was in the, felt like he was in the 30s by the time Draft started. I mean, if you really want to be savvy, you should probably trade away Puka because either he or Stafford or both of them are going to get hurt. And you could get like a ransom for him, but it's hard to do that. He had a really enlightening quote about how important Devante Adams has been for him. Puka that felt like a kind of shots fired at Cooper Cup without it being a shots fired

where he was just like for the moment he got here you could feel our offense open up and all that and it's like a Cup was jealous probably because Pucka does the same things that Cup did but Devante's different like they play different roles so they can coexist more easily than Puka and Cooper Cup. Yeah he liked Puka like 2.0

Cooper Cup who had the single greatest start to finish wide receiver season in the history of the week. Yeah. And it was made irrelevant Robert Redford Month on the rewatchables. How many of these have you seen? That we're going to do, I think, the Sting and Condor are the only two I've seen that we're going to do. And who knows if we're doing Condor?

Right, right, right. We don't know that. We have Jeremiah Johnson coming next week. Which I have not seen. I'm going to watch that today. I cannot. I absolutely cannot wait for your take. That's the one that the famous meme, right, of Redford doing the nod.

Yeah. Yeah. It says that that's how I know that movie. fifth highest grossing movie of 1972 and 50 plus years later it's been reduced to the nodding meme that's how people know it that's your generation

it's your fault well we wouldn't know it at all if it wasn't for the meme true you would even know it was untuby yeah all right say how to the fantasy guys for us good to see you thanks all right that's it for the podcast

thanks to my dad thanks to Michael Pina thanks to Craig Horroback thanks to Eduardo and Gahuehau as well and I'm going to be back Thursday, maybe Wednesday. Definitely one more podcast, who knows, might be back tomorrow night. If anything crazy happens in Red Sox Yankees, I will see you later in the week.

21 plus in president's like states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 100 gambler or visit RG-Helfthelp.com. Call 188-789-7777 or visit CCPG.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org or call 800, 327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8-6. 778, Hope, NY, or text Hope, NY in New York.