The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Summer NBA Trade Value List, Plus Beal Trades and a U.S. Open Report With Joe House

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to discuss the buzz around a potential Bradley Beal trade and the possible suitors (1:36), before Bill reveals his updated NBA Trade Value List, complete with dishonorable mentions, toughest omissions, and the top 65 trade-value players in the NBA (24:00). Then, House describes his day on LACC at the U.S. Open, some updated odds, and more (1:05:35). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Joe House Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, trade value, Bradley Beal Trades, US Open, next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day, all the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the

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Joe House is coming up later on this podcast, but they are also going to recap round one and what they thought of the course today and what they think is going to happen the weekend. So go check that one out. House is coming up in a second. If you miss rewatchables, we put up Blood Diamond on Tuesday. And we're probably going to have one, I think, next Tuesday is the next one. And it is a franchise movie.

This is going to be your hint for that one. Rosillo's coming up Sunday. Coming up now, House. Trade value. I made a new list. We're going to run it on the ringer on Friday. So House and I are going to go over the last batch of the list and make some final edits, a top 65 NBA trade value. And we're going to talk about Bradley Beal and his positioning on it and possible Bradley

Beal trades. And then we're going to talk about the US Open. This is a very fun podcast. We didn't get drunk house, but I was definitely drinking earlier house, which is sometimes the best house. But that is all next. First, our friends from ProJab. All right, we are taping this. It is almost 7 o'clock Pacific time, Thursday night. I just flew back from the East Coast. I missed the U.S. Open. Joe House is here.

He went to the U.S. Open. He's going to tell us about it later on. The U.S. Open is in L.A. We're going to talk basketball. Joe House's team was in the U.S. Open. Joe House is here. He went to the U.S. Open. He's going to tell us about it later on. The U.S. Open is in L.A. We're going to talk basketball. Joe House's team was in the news. This rarely happens. Your beloved Wizards celebrating your 43rd anniversary of the last time you had a relevant basketball team. And now Bradley Beal, Russo and I talked about it on Sunday night. He was the number one draft pick from both of us for I won't be surprised two months from now if he's on a different team. Like clockwork, like magic.

Two days later, Bradley Beal starts popping up and stuff. And now we are entering this weird nebulous phase house where it's very hard to tell what his trade value is. I bring this up because we're going to break down my updated trade value list later in this podcast. We are running that trade value list on the ringer.com, I think on Friday. So I didn't write any text other than just like a quick little intro. Bradley Beal did make the list, but were you surprised by the interest in a guy who has, I think, not played more than 60 games since 2019?

A three-point shooter who hasn't really made a ton of three-point shots the last couple years? Who has been the focal point of an under-500 team? Are you surprised you could get real value for this guy, or do you feel like it's a smokescreen? What are you thinking? Who says they can get real value? I don't understand

what you're saying. Miami, the Knicks are being floated around. My first question is I want to know. I'm already jealous. You and Rosillo's, the pod Sunday, everybody took that pod, saved it, waited for Denver to clinch the game five and they're like, we don't have any more NBA

content. Get out the Bill Simmons podcast. We've got some takes to talk about. I saw it on ESPN today. I saw it on the FanDuel channel. Everybody wants to talk about the Bill Simmons podcast. I don't think anybody is going to care to hear what I have to say about anything.

Long time suffering Wizards fan. That's legitimately true. You jokingly call Bradley Beal beta Beal. You say he cannot be the one on a great team. Could he be a two? Could he have been the Jamal Murray to Jokic's Jokic? I don't know. And it's impossible to say.

The beginning point to all of this is how hilarious it is and how on point around Washington, the Washington fans, it is the hashtag so wizards that at this moment this juncture exactly when a transcendent talent a particular guy that everybody could be could see coming down the pike in the draft that's going to occur next week oh sir thompson he could be incredible let's not i'm not i'm not here for any thompson slander. I love the Thompson. You're talking about Wim Benyama, the 7'5 French guy.

Yes. It was not a secret that he was going to be in this upcoming draft. And yet, the Washington franchise chose this moment when they have the eighth pick in the upcoming draft. And, you know, who knows

what is going to come in next year's draft and what talent is going to be available. But this is the time to rebuild. And the reason... By the way, you were screaming for a rebuild last year. You were begging for it. At the very beginning. Of course.

Of course that was the right thing to do. The reason that they did not rebuild this most recent season is because the owner of the basketball team wanted one round of playoff money. rebuild this most recent season is because the owner of the basketball team wanted one round of playoff money. And the design of that team, their ceiling was... Many have been

hoping for a playing game check. Both. Playing game and two playoff games. Maybe a game six. Maybe four playoff games. Probably both. Undoubtedly. And it was a team with a ceiling that was at the very, very, very best. If everything broke perfectly, a

seven seed in the East. You got a completely healthy Porzingis season and still didn't have a winning record. And a terrific Kuzma season. Both of those guys were very good. I mean, you know, those are guys who are trying to earn some paychecks. Bradley Bill has played in 90 basketball games, I believe, over the past two seasons.

I think that's right. You know, it's 162 game. You know, if you do a I mean, it's 164, 82 plus 82. I think he's played 90. I'm trying. And I was I've been outside at the US Open all day today. But look, this is exactly what Washington... Now, to the credit of the franchise,

having failed to make anything, not even the play-in game, they are doing what they needed to do. Well, because they hired somebody who came in and they were like, what are your ideas? Winger. Yeah.

Winger's like, I have an idea. We're going nowhere with these three guys. Let's blow it up. We got Winger. We got Dawkins. And we got Schlenk. We got going nowhere with these three guys. Let's blow it up. We got Winger. We got Dawkins. And we got Schlenk. We got some WD Schlenke.

We're going to spray some WD Schlenke on the franchise because it needs, it's a rusty ass franchise that needs some kind of lubricant to get things going. And the first move of this lubricant is Bradley Beal on the trade block. You guys, now look, I mean, to your credit as well. We're not getting Bradley Beal on the trade block. You guys, now look, I mean, to your credit as well, we talked about this. My team's not getting Bradley Beal. Just settle down. When I say you guys, of course you think Boston because

that's the way your stupid brain works. Part of the team. I'm talking about you and Rosillo. I don't think Rosillo plays for Boston. There was discussion before the trade deadline last, two years ago, about Beal going to Philly. That was in motion.

There was discussions about that. Soft discussions, behind-the-scenes discussions. Because we heard it. It was reported. We know that to be true. I know for a fact that Embiid wanted Beal. Yes. Well, I'll tell you this. I heard last night from Little Birdie. Harden going back to Philly Yes. Well, I'll tell you this. I heard last night from a little birdie,

Harden going back to Philly is way more realistic and probable than everyone's giving her credit for, including myself up to yesterday when I heard about this, because everyone's like, I was going to Houston. There's been some Philly buzz, and I think that's one of the reasons they're not in the bill sweepstakes, not that they added in to trade. Why wouldn't they be? That's actually, if you're Philadelphia, if you're a Philadelphia fan, the best case scenario is keeping Harden,

trading Tobias Harris is expiring. I don't think Harris and like some pick in 2029 is going to be enough. I think Miami, if they put Hero on the table, who they just almost... They made the finals. They made game five of the finals with no Hero at all.

I understand that argument. How does that help Washington? Tyler Hero doesn't have an expiring contract. But Tyler Hero is on my trade value list. What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't help the Washington franchise. He's an asset. For teams that have a reasonable chance at competing.

What do I want Tyler Hero for? Because he'll average 27 in a game on your 20 and 62, 2024 Wizards. That sounds great. That's useless. That's nonsense. So you just want picks. You don't want anything good back. I want nothing.

I want an expiring contract. I want an overpaid guy who was a bum for his own franchise. But Tobias is good, though. He just... He's overpaid guy who was a bum for his own franchise. But Tobias is good, though. He just... He's overpaid. If he was on a bad team, he's averaging like 23, 24 a game for the Wizards. To what end? For what point?

I just think you have to... His expiring contract is extremely desirable. The most important thing for the Washington franchise is to hit the reset button and to be out of all of this money hell. So you're talking like Bertans, like contract, just bad contracts with like the 10th pick from Dallas. Fine. Sure. Yes. I wouldn't do that.

I want an asset back. And by the way, the East is going to be good next year. Like even if you get an asset back, you're still going to be one of the worst teams in the East. You can't have another duration contract of money where a guy is arguably overpaid. Do you think that Tyler Hero is going to ultimately earn out, play out

to the capacity of what that contract that he got? Would you rather have Tyler Hero or Jordan Poole? Neither. Would you rather have Tyler Hero or Jordan Poole? Definitely Tyler Hero. I would too. I think Tyler Hero was like 23 a game during the season. And I watched him like run a crunch time plays down the stretch. Yeah, my issue with him is he's undisciplined playing for Eric Spolstra.

How do you think he'll be? How do you think he'll be playing for Wes Onsell Jr.? He can't even rent a car yet. He's three years away from being able to rent a car. The best coach in the NBA can't tame that wild horse. Well, you can't force him to take good shots. That's your best tanking accent is West Sunsell Jr.

You got to keep him for at least one more year. Well, he's on a contract for one more year. So, so, so what's your dream scenario? It's just like a Knicks. Start from scratch.

Picks, picks, picks, picks, picks. Let's Oklahoma city this month. This, picks, picks, picks, picks. That's the Oklahoma City this month. This, this, this, this, this approach. If you're Philly and you could turn Harris and picks into Beal, but keep Harden.

And you have Beal and Beaten Harden. You're good with that? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Is there a Lakers scenario for you?

I don't know. What do they send back? Don't send back Rui. He didn't like it. He didn't like it. He didn't like it in Washington. Return to sender? I don't think Rui wants to come back. What about Poole and Kaminga?

I don't think the Warriors would do that. You know what's crazy? At some point during the course of this season, I argued to you that the Wizards should have been looking at Kuzma for Kaminga and a draft pick. I still think that the problem with it is I don't have a good sense yet as to what the new brain thrust in Washington, what their track record is in terms of developing young talent. They've all had great success at different points in their career, identifying good young talent. And the coaches and the coaching staff have helped nurture it. But, you know, Kuminga needs still some seasoning.

He needs development. He needs the opportunity. Maybe Washington is a good place for that because he comes in raw and just gets minutes, minutes, minutes, minutes, and they try and teach him how to play. I don't know. Can I give you the oh my God? I don't know. Can I give you the oh my God trade? I don't want pool, just

for the record. Can I give you the oh my God trade? I'm listening. Kyle might have to turn the TikTok camera on. TikTok! I'm right here! Clay Thompson's expiring contract? And something else for

Beal? No, I can't do it. You know why? Sad Clay on the Wizards for a year just being sad and then eventually getting bought out in February? I can't countenance that because it's so disrespectful and rude to Steph. Steph

deserves one more, at least one more year and he deserves it with his guys, with Draymond, with Clay. What about Poole? No. Okay, go ahead. And Kaminga for Bradley Beal. I don't like the Poole part because, again, that's worse than Hero.

He'll shoot you right into the top five of the ladder. He'll take 30 shots a game. If we're in this era where the best thing to do is preserve flexibility under the new salary cap because we don't know how this collective bargaining agreement is going to work.

We don't know. Oh, I got it. I have the dream. Ben Simmons and some picks. What better to pull you toward 15 and 67 than that summer workout, workout bed how many years does he have left is he expiring have you seen his summer workouts oh my god are they doing that

the shirt off yeah are they literally doing that again yeah you're lying shirt off workout is he still represented by clutch or did no he they had a parting of ways. Yeah, parting of ways is a good way to put it. He's 37.8 next year and 40.3 in 25. Oh my God, two years left. Couldn't you just take Ben Simmons back and some picks? And what, buy him out? No, keep him. Offer him $5 million? It's a nice flyer.

I think that's my favorite one so far. It's really rude and disrespectful. I don't understand why. Ben Simmons' destiny for his entire career was to play on the Washington Wizards. His destiny for his entire career is to return to Australia and play the Australian League where he can

be a hero and not have pressure and he can drive around in whatever car he wants and talk to whatever young ladies that he wants to talk to. Exactly. Now his destiny is to be awesome in the 2024 Olympics for Australia. As the American basketball fans are like, really? How did this happen?

Zach Levine? Just a sideways trade? Well, why? To what end? I don't know. Just mixing it up. It's basically like giving your team the shocker? It would be.

No. You can do this with this round robin with Trey Young, Bradley Beal, Carl Anthony Towns, Zach Levine. And what? Each team just move it? We'll play musical chairs. Send Carl Anthony Towns to Atlanta. Send Bradley Beal to Chicago.

Would you take Carl Towns? Oh, my God, yes. Definitely. See, I think that's too much for Bill. He's destined for Washington. No, that's too much for him though. He'd be so perfect in Washington.

Yeah, you'd almost have to. No pressure at all on him. Speaking of beta. You'd almost have to expand that. That would have to be like a mega deal. Like Porzingis would have to be in that. So you get some Porzingis Gobert Twin Towers.

What? Should we hold on to Porzingis? Porzingis is a free agent. He is the PO. I saw that he was going to exercise the option. There was news during the course of the day today. To stay with the Wizards or to leave? Exercise the option to stay?

I thought I saw that. Really? I thought I saw it. I won't swear to it. I was on a golf course. Oh, you're right. There are rumors to it. I was on a golf course. Oh, you're right. There are rumors. There's alcoholic beverages on the golf course.

There's rumors that he's picking up his 36 million dollar option. Pretty good option. We always like to play the game right after we watch the playoffs. Can we imagine different guys in the game we just watched? Kind of hard to believe Porzingis would have been

in that Heat Nuggets game. He could have been on the Heat. But for like, yeah, in the Kevin Love spot. Yeah, exactly. And really, literally in that spot because he got hot at various times over the course. Like when he

got going a little bit, his three is very good. And it's very tough to defend because he's so tall. He shoots over everybody. Kevin Love, I think, has to be 50-50 to be on the Wizards next year. It just feels logical. His West Suns out, his game was modeled after once upon a time from his dad. That would be cool. If we want to do that and we bring back

retro jerseys of that old Bullets. Yeah. And Kevin Love is throwing some of those. You got to celebrate the 45th anniversary of the last time you had a team that mattered. They should wear that on the jerseys. It's longer than that.

No, the 79 team. Next year will be 45, you're right. Oh, yeah. 45. Next year will be 45. You're right. Yeah. So since Russell and I did that thing, the two guys that have been floated around now are Beal and then Levine today, which no surprise at all. Is there any Dame stuff yet? I think we might have even forgotten Levine.

Yeah. And then the Dame thing, someone I trust was saying, don't count the Knicks out. Oh. And I was trying to figure out how that would work with him and Brunson. I just couldn't wrap my head around that one. How do you have him and Brunson? They're not going to trade Brunson. They love Brunson.

The Knicks fans would be furious. What you're asking is... And I think Brunson has more trade value than Dame. I understand exactly that point of view. And I think we're probably coming at it from the same position. Can Dame be a shooting guard? Well, that was my question. Defensively, Dame and Brunson together

just seems like a catastrophe. I don't see how that would work at all. I think the only way it would work is that other team would be so confused for who to target that the shot clock would wind down as they were deciding which was their best target option. I don't,

I don't see how it'd work. I think Brooklyn is way more realistic for them. And then the Miami option, if Brooklyn is more realistic for who? For Dane. Why would Dane go to Brooklyn? Cause it's Brooklyn. It's in New York.

If they, if Brooklyn could come somehow keep bridges, they're not in contention. Why would Dane go to team not in contention? Well, him and Bridges, and then you're like, they'll spend money. Why would you do that? That's a team that's been floated. He should go to a team that has a chance to win.

He should go to Miami. You and Russillo talked about that. I like that the best. I just don't know if it's enough. We forgot to mention with Beal, he's got the no trade clause. Oh, my God. So he can basically steer himself to whatever team he wants, right? So if he says like, you can trade me,

but it can only be to Philly, then they're A, handicapped with the trade, but then B, Philly can get them at a discount. I'm going to pose this question to you. You do a lot of business deals, a lot of negotiations.

I do? I wish I had been involved in the Megan and Harry leave Spotify negotiation. The fucking grifters. That's a podcast we should have launched with them. I got to get drunk one night and tell the story of the Zoom I had with Harry to try to help him with a podcast idea. Do it. It's one of my best stories.

Dude, there hasn't been a drunk Simmons podcast. Let's both get drunk and then we'll just be drunk. Save that idea. It'll be really easy. Here's my business question to you. Washington, is it possible they have a little leverage as it relates to the no trade clause in this following way? Like, oh, you don't want to. Here you're going to tell us where you don't want to go.

Okay. You then stay here. Right. If he really wants to go. Yeah, exactly. And you just play. Oh, you could play 22 minutes. They did the passive-aggressive thing where it's like they leak that both sides are open

to the possibility if it's decided that they might blow it up. They just kind of test floated it out to make it seem like it was nobody's fault. But clearly both sides were like, hey. There's a Celtics scenario that does not involve Jalen Brown. Because if they trade Jalen Brown or Bradley Beal trade, I'll fucking lose my mind. That would make me so mad.

You know who else it would make mad? Well, it would be a three-party team. Is that what you're saying? No, I just think... That makes no sense for Washington. No. You're in a worse position. Paying Jalen Brown that money? How does that help?

He's not a franchise guy. He's not a guy that you could build. Yes. Jalen Brown in Washington does not help Washington at all. And for the Celtics, turning Jalen Brown into Bradley Beal isn't going to change their destiny just because he's buddies with Tatum, even though that can't be ruled out. I think if they did anything, they would have to try to keep Tatum, Brown, and Beal, three guys that I don't know make sense together.

Bradley Beal can dribble into the lane. Can he dribble to his left? I think so. I've seen it. I think Jalen Brown's going to come back after this summer and he's going to be going to his left like Tiny Archibald. He's just working out like for... He's had multiple players on other teams call out the fact that he can't dribble to his left. I don't know if that's ever happened before

where other players are just like, yeah, that's the scouting report. Make him go left and he'll lose the ball. And I mean, he's a second-team All-NBA guy. That's the kicker. No, I think if for them to get Beal of the Celtics, it would have to be, like,

you'd have to talk about, like, Smart and Robert Williams and future picks going somewhere else, and then somebody sending stuff to the Wizards. Yeah, right. Exactly. But I don't know why they would do that, because then in a year, they're going to have Beal and Brown and Tatum all 50-plus. It's insane. They can't Exactly. But I don't know why they would do that because then in a year, they're going to have Beal and Brown and Tatum all 50 plus. It's insane.

They can't do it. I don't know. It's the great unknown under the new collective bargaining agreement. Well, the other thing that we don't know, and oh, we should talk about our friends at FanDuel. You know, we crowded NBA champion, but FanDuel still wants you to be part of the excitement.

FanDuel right now, I still think this is probably true. New customers could get a no sweat first bet. Last week, it was up to $2,500 back in bonus bets if your first bet doesn't win. I'm sure there's still like a good number like that, but FanDuel, great promotions every day. Safe and secure app when you get paid instantly.

There's a draft bet on FanDuel that we may have jumped on before the odds kind of shifted on our guy Scoot Henderson, who was plus 160 on FanDuel, I think like 36 hours ago, and is now minus 105 to be the second pick.

Stuff is happening. I think he's going to be the second pick. Kevin O'Connor might have a different opinion still. Well, Kevin O'Connor might have a different opinion still. Well, Kevin O'Connor thinks there's a lot of smokescreen stuff because Charlotte's still trying to convince people they might take. Nobody knows of them, but I just think Scoot's a better prospect. I think he goes into these workouts, he blows people away, and I think he has the most value in that pick.

We see this in football all the time with like a quarterback. We're like, oh, he might drop to four and then the draft comes. And guess what? The guy doesn't drop to four because multiple teams want him. I just think he has the most value at two. And for them to take Brandon Miller over him

would be stupid. Just trade the pick at that point. Orlando has six and 11 and Suggs and other stuff. They would jump up in a heartbeat to get Scoot. There's rumors about New Orleans Orlando has six and 11 and Suggs and other stuff. Like they would jump up in a heartbeat to get Scoot. There's rumors about New Orleans and would they dangle, you know, some real assets to move up? Interesting.

I just think he's going to. So anyway, that bet has dropped to just about even odds, but we still like it on FanDuel. Go to FanDuel.com slash BS. Get a no sweat first bet. As of a couple of days ago, it was up to $2,500. Fando.com slash BS. Fando, official sports betting partner of the NBA.

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Prime Monday night hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers,

host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, House. I messed around and made a little trade value list. I did not write text for it, but... It deserved... It was time for an update because we have another set of playoffs to really measure who showed us something serious, who had the balls. And it was time to crown the Joker. Let's crown the Joker. So the first one I ever wrote, February 2001.

Can you guess who? That's a long time ago. Yeah. I don't even, I was living in Charlestown. I don't even think I was engaged yet. I don't think you were engaged yet. I definitely was not. Who do you think was the number one player

on the first trade value list? Man. 2000, 2001 season. So it was the season that eventually led to the Lakers winning the title again value list. Man. 2000, 2001 season. So it was the season that eventually led to the Lakers winning the title again. You hate Kobe. So there's no scenario.

I don't hate Kobe. No, at that era. I'm saying that. Well, that was when him and Shaq were really battling. Yeah, we had some real concerns. This is what I mean. No, it's like, I, yes.

For the sake of clarity, Bill Simmons does not hate Kobe Bryant. I'm trying to project back to 2001. Well, you and I were lives. This was the first time because we jumped on that Kobe bandwagon early. Immediately. We were like, this might be the guy. Look at him go. We loved him. 2000 finals.

But then that second season, it was like, oh, no. It was just starting to go a little bit the wrong way. So no, he was not the number one guy. The number one guy was Tim Duncan. I wondered. I was going to guess that. Tim Duncan.

I might have said Shaq, though. Tim Duncan had KG. Yeah. And Kobe Bryant was third. Okay. Where was Shaq? He was like fifth or sixth. That was the Shaq was out of shape season.

Yeah. It was like, ah, what's going on? Come on. Is he going to stay in shape? Since then, Shaq, the next year, ah, what's going on? He's 29. Is he going to stay in shape? Since then, Shaq, the next year, was number one. Okay.

Tim Duncan, because that was after the three-peat. It was like, all right, Shaq's got to be number one. Great. After that, Tim Duncan, the 03 when he was the finals MVP. We had a young LeBron James. Was number one for a couple years. Yeah. Dwayne Wade in 2006, coming off to 06 finals, became the most untradeable guy in the league.

Amazing. Great job, D. Wade. Every trade value column I wrote from 07 through the 13 one, LeBron James was number one. With good reason. And if I had done it in 14, which I didn't,

I think it would have been Kevin Durant because that was his MVP year. I just didn't do it. I think I was too busy. Yeah. 2015 was the last one I rode for years. It's been a great one. I feel like I'm confessing something here.

Anthony Davis was my number one guy. Oh, no. It was like right during that stretch when, remember LeBron went to Cleveland? Yeah. And he was like, didn't look as good. I think Dur rant got hurt. I don't like it.

And Davis just kind of stumbled in there. We don't talk about that. I don't like it. So I didn't write one in 16 or 17, but it would have been Steph Curry in 16. It would have been KD in 17. Sure. Yes.

And then it was basically the Greek freak for half a decade. And now our doughy Serbian king. Our guy Joker. The doughy Serbian king? Our unselfish god. The guy who brought back team basketball. The basketball that we grew up with.

Yeah, he really did. At the field house at Holy Cross where guys used to cut and actually get the ball. It really has been a joyful last couple of weeks. I have to say,

I did not really love the regular season this year. I thought it was an all-time disappointing NBA regular season for all the variety of reasons, but most prominently, the load management and all that kind of stuff. But the joy of watching

the Joker do his thing and the entire basketball world recognizing it and celebrating that brand of basketball and you and Doc, it was such a great conversation. The pod you guys did right after game five, you and Doc Rivers, he makes everybody that he plays with better

and that's the number one core tenant of the Joe House, Bill Simmons basketball. That's all we've ever cared about. It really is. That's why I still love Bill Walton. I understand. It's so nice that somebody brought it back. It was so nice to watch somebody just single-handedly turn Aaron Gordon into this awesome finals player.

I was so glad Doc did his whole thing about it. So yeah, Jokic is first. So, honorable mention, basically the same as the last time. Dishonorable mention, Kyrie Irving and Ben Simmons. The following guys are all... Wait, wait, wait. Well, we'll get to Kyrie. Are we going to leave? Are we going to talk

about guys or do you just want to run through it? Well, you push back a little that Kyrie was not in the top 65. When you have him in dishonorable mention that means that he's not inside the top 65 I just can't put him in I don't see how I don't understand that he has he literally was just traded for really a very important player for the Dallas Mavericks. Dallas missed the playoffs because they couldn't play defense, and it's because they couldn't play defense because they traded their best defender.

Well, you think they would redo that trade, Joe House? I'm going to say they won't. I'm going to say that wouldn't have been a trade they did again. I think that hurt his trade value, the fact that they didn't make the playoffs. I can't put him in. I'm not doing it. Toughest omissions. I want to be on record.

Kyrie Irving is a top 30 player in the NBA, notwithstanding the nonsense. How many teams would actually trade for him? I think some. The Lakers would? Who? Who are they trading? I don't know. We could sit down and look at the salaries and everything.

Would you trade Austin Reeves for Kyrie Irving? Yes, of course. What kind of question is that? Yes. Yes. You'd rather for Kyrie Irving? Yes, of course. What kind of question is that? Yes. Yes. You'd rather pay Kyrie Irving $40 million and deal with all the stuff that comes with Kyrie Irving over young Austin Reeves.

Conference finals. And the biggest response to what you're posing there in terms of dealing with Kyrie, LeBron James is a Los Angeles Laker. He's the GM. He's the coach. He's the coach. He'll run the show. How many more disappointing years in a row

does Kyrie have to have before you don't consider him a top 65 trade asset? I really enjoy it. I'm just wondering, what's the number? Because he's up to six. Well, you know what? It's six straight years of dissension

or him getting hurt or his team underachieving or just complete chaos or him refusing to play. I am never in the position of having to, to, to, to, um, stand up for Kyrie. Do you know how long six years is? Oh, I do. How old's your son now? It's wonderful. He's 12. So the last time Kyrie had a coherent season, your son was in kindergarten. Yes, he was. Probably repeating it. But now your son is very close to hitting puberty.

Stuff. Stuff will start happening. Right. Some long showers. Toughest omissions. Keldon Johnson, Lou Dort, Jaden Ivey, Dyson Daniels, Jaden McDaniels, who did not make the February list.

I actually would have put him on if he didn't punch a wall during the biggest game of their season. I don't know. I thought I would dig him on that one. It's a bummer. Devin Vassell, Caleb Martin.

Sure. Making like $7 million a year and just proved that he could play in a playoff series. And Nikola Vucevic, who's a free agent. Off the list. Guys, we knocked off the list. Gobert, CP3,

Jordan Poole, Kyle Kuzma, Jeremy Grant, Chris Middleton, Julius Randle, Jared Allen, Anthony Simons, James Harden,

Jabari Smith, Marcus Smart. Any of those make you mad? I'm not mad. I'm just confused. Why is the Anthony Simons off the list? He didn't make the list.

And Kuzma... I didn't like the second half of his season. I'm surprised by Kuzma as well. He's a free agent. He's about to be overpaid. What's his trade value? Okay, that's fine. Also, Spencer Dinwiddie kind of stuck it to him. I thought Kuz pushed back pretty good on Dinwiddie. I mean, you know, Din Shitty

is pretty good. That's pretty good. I mean, you know, Din Shitty is pretty good. That's pretty good. Anthony Simons, I still wonder about in the sense that his season went the way that Portland's season went, which was the not with Dame's point of view, which is like we've seen this a few times out of Portland.

So can we really stick it to Simons? He's still young. He's so young. $25 million a year. That's a pretty good price. Him or Jalen Green for that one spot. The King of Houston, Jalen Green. And I just like Jalen Green.

Two years in the league, rookie contract. He's a little bit younger and a little bit cheaper. If Portland offers Anthony Simons to Houston for Jalen Green, does Houston say yes? I don't think they do. I don't think so, but why would they? It doesn't help them any. All right, so top 65. First category,

buyer's remorse. This has number 65, Tyler Hero, Bradley Beal. These are all guys you tried to give me. Zach Levine and Kawhi Leonard. I want to say something about Kawhi. Would you take Kawhi Leonard for Bradley Beal right now? I think Kawhi might have to go on the dishonorable mention list.

Oh, I'd like this. I really think it might be time. Like how many more seasons? Well, he got legitimately hurt this last time. He tried to a certain extent, but there just seems to be always with this guy a communication piece that's missing. Why do we keep hearing these stories

out of LA about we're not sure what his status is. We're not sure. Or stuff like he's completely ruined the culture with our organization and stuff but you mean stuff like that that's that feels like a rumor i don't know one way or the other not a rumor uh i i think it might be time because he kind of single-handedly sabotaged

the clippers i mean he did kind of hold them hostage. He did kind of insist that they acquire another guy who's oft injured, who had a catastrophic injury in the form of Paul George. And they kind of did trade SGA, who's kind of a first team all NBA guy, for the purpose of bringing Paul George on board. And now that team is fucked. Yeah, $209 million payroll guaranteed. No way to get out of it. I'd much rather be a

Wizards fan than a Clippers fan. How about that? Well, I'm sure the Clippers called you about Bradley Beal. Let me try to see if I can throw a Clippers Bradley Beal trade at you. That's actually a team because they have a lot of dead pieces for you. How about I will give you...

Oh. Marcus Morris' expiring contract? No, I've had enough. I don't want any Morris'. I've had enough. Robert Covington? They can just give you three bad contracts. Are they all expiring?

Yeah. Okay, that's fine. And Nick Batum? They don't even have to come. Nick Batum, I like. They could just give you like three bad contracts. Are they all expiring? Yeah. Okay. And Nick Batum? They don't even have to come. Nick Batum, I like. I like, I stand for Batum. They could just give you those three, the Morris Covington Batum poo-poo platter for Beal.

And you could be like, let's get out of this. I didn't even do better than that. The Kawhi thing would be like if Rosillo... I'm trying to think in normal life. Rosillo is doing my pods on Sundays from February to July. And he just didn't show up for half of them. And then Kyle would be like, Kyle, did you talk to Rosillo? He's like, I didn't.

He wouldn't return my emails or texts. So is he going to show up today? I don't know. And then it's like, all right, well, we better have somebody on standby in case he doesn't play today and then right before the pot he shows up like I'm ready to do the pod with the added flavor though like you were already making

accommodations for him like you can Rosilla's only available on Sundays between 625 he can only do the podcast at 640 and you have to send him, you know, it's like a rider. He needs a bowl of green M&Ms

and five hot coffees. Not four, not six, five, and they bet on a certain temperature. So you're already accommodating him. I can do it for a year, but year five, I'd be like, eh, I'm good with this. Yeah.

I think the Clippers are good. I think they're good with this. To me. What do you mean good? I think they're fucking tired of the Kawhi rollercoaster and just not knowing stuff. I agree. And just being in the dark. So we agree.

But they're stuck. He's still under contract. You're going to trade Bradley Beal to them. Then you can have Kawhi. For what? Kawhi can load manage his way to the number two pick in the draft next year

I'm putting he's I bring I take Kyrie down and put him on the list and I push Kawhi Leonard onto dishonorable mention

Zach Levine for Kawhi Leonard I have them right next to each other and trade by him Kawhi to Chicago doesn't like cold weather who's the best coach that Zach Levine's played for because Billy Donovan next to each other and choked by him. Wow. Kauai to Chicago. Doesn't like cold weather.

Who's the best coach that Zach Levine's played for? Because Billy Donovan's not a chump. Is there a coach fit for Zach Levine in this NBA? Billy Donovan's a pretty good coach. I agree. I said he's not a chump.

You know how many seasons Zach Levine's been in the NBA? A lot. Nine. Yeah, a lot. You know how many playoff games he's played? Take a guess.

Ooh, it's not very many. Ten? Four. Pretty tough. That's not a good number. Not great. Next group is quality starters. From 61 to 54, Keegan Murray, RJ Barrett, DeMar DeRose, and Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green,

Derek White, Trey Young, DeJounte Murray. Now, here's why Derek White's in there. Basically, it's the Marcus Smart spot. Great contract. 17.6 next year, 18.8 the year after. It's a great contract. Really,

everything he does is additive. Good teammate. And the whole point of the trade value is it's not a player list. We're not ranking this from 61. You have to factor in age, salaries. Is your contract expiring? Do I have you under contract for a long time? Can I trust you in the playoffs?

So the next two guys are Derek White, then Trey Young, then DeJounte Murray. And the Hawks would not trade Trey Young for Derek White. Definitely not. But yet I would argue Derek White at 40% of the price of Trey Young in the second apron era we're about to enter. I would rather have Derek White. But I know he has less trade value. The next category is the upside gang,

which features three new guys from 53 to 46. Hold your thoughts. Jalen Green, Shaden Sharp, Tyrese Maxey, Scotty Barnes, Austin Reeves, Brandon Miller,

Scoot Henderson, and Cade Cunningham. Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson not in the league yet. You're squinting at Austin Reeves at number 49. I really am not. He has skills that I understand

that translate well for teams that want to have success in the NBA playoffs. Which is what we care about, you and I. And he gets to the free throw line. To me, he's 6'5 Jeff Hornacek and he'll be in lots of playoffs

as long as you put... He can be the third guy on a really good team. Why? Jalen Green is the one that confuses me. The King of Houston? The King of Houston is confusing me. The reason we're joking about King of Houston is he was on Paul George's podcast and Paul

George asked him about the James Harden rumors and Paul George says, you're the King of Houston. I was like, wow. The player podcasts are a godsend. They, please. From a comedy standpoint, definitely. Keep coming, guys. Everybody who wants one, just do it. I think he's so talented and we have not seen him

with a good supporting cast situation, a good coaching situation. We've seen him. Okay. I just want to see him with Adoka. Can I see him with Ime Adoka for three months? Okay, that's fine. Can I see him with a coach that's going to see him with Adoka. Can I see him with Ime Adoka for three months? I think you're... Okay, that's fine.

Can I see him with a coach that's going to hold him accountable and yell at him when he doesn't play defense and yell at him when he takes dumb 28-footers? I want to see it. I want my position to be clear. I don't think he belongs on this list. I think he should be an honorable mention player.

I don't think he's a top 65 player in terms of trade value in any way, shape, or form. And so I'm on record with that. I understand the point you're making. You know what makes me mad is I value in any way, shape, or form. And so I'm on record with that. I understand the point you're making. You know what makes me mad is I felt the same way, but I didn't want to take them off because then it'd be like, you hate Jalen Green.

It's like... You already had him on the pod. You made up to him. I know, but like... And are Houston people really still... Like, would you rather have Jaden McDaniels or Jalen Green? Jaden McDaniels, of course. Yeah, I blew it.

I should have put Jaden McDaniels in that spot. He's playing in the playoffs and he's a crucial element. He punched a wall during the biggest game of their year. God, why did he do it? I think I'd rather... I probably blew that one. Oh, well. The Reeves thing, though, I really think I have no problem with it at all.

I really feel like if they had run more of the offense through him in that Denver series, that they would not have gotten swept. It was one of those things where, you know, LeBron, who I still think is the smartest guy in the league, but they had a real advantage with Reeves. Like he was getting in the paint and he was creating stuff. And it felt like as, especially when they fell down to nothing, LeBron was like, I gotta, I gotta do everything now, you know, that it's all on my shoulders. And I was like, I don't know if that was true. I actually think Reeves could have, I was shocked by how easily he was creating shots for himself and others. He was a real problem for Denver.

Anyway, Kate Cunningham. What's the early reports on how his recovery is going? You could have told me he should have been in the low thirties. Sure. You could have told me he should have been honorable mention. I don't even know what to think. We haven't seen him in a year.

Yep. Next group. Actually, let's take a break. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe. Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all.

Not at all. Trains move quietly, so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for me. Because safety is learned. It's learned.

Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. Ugh. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. All right, come back. Trade value, top 45.

This next group is five guys. It is called Sorry He's Worth More to Us Than to You. O.J. Ananobi, Brandon Ingram, new addition, Aaron Gordon, Desmond Bain, and Demantis Sabonis. Aaron Gordon at number 43, 21.2 million next year,

22.8 the year after, and player option the year after that. Phenomenal. I think I'm okay. This is the only time really that he's going to make the list. Yeah, in November, he's probably out. This is just us celebrating the contribution he made to a team that won the NBA title.

He's also worth more to them than he would be to any other team. If Toronto's like, we'll give you OG and an OB for any other team. Like that. Like if Toronto is like, we'll give you OG and an OB for Denver to, for Gordon, Denver's that could be like, Oh, cool.

And the contract is really good. Those numbers are really good. 21 million, 23 million. Those are good numbers. So bonus dropped about 10, 12 spots because of the playoffs, but he was hurt.

Yeah. I don't know. I think that's the right spot for him. Next group has seven people in it, and it is called, If You Tell Woj, I'll Deny It to the Death, but I'm Listening. No, no, no.

Number 40, LeBron James. No! I say no to you. I've already made my impassioned case for LeBron always in a top 15 to top 20 position. I don't feel like repeating it. You're 21 next year. It doesn't matter. It makes $46 million. It doesn't matter.

Who's trading for him? He still is such an unconquerable force. Okay, I'll give you the next six guys and you tell me which one of them is getting traded straight up for LeBron James. Paul George? I mean, no chance I want traded straight up for LeBron James? Paul George? I mean, no chance

I want Paul George instead of LeBron. No way. Under what circumstance? For what reason? You think the Clippers would want to trade Paul George for LeBron James? I'm just saying the... I don't think that at all. I really don't. But I just am not in the position. I know

this isn't rankings. It's just slanderous to have LeBron there. That's all. They made the Western Conference Finals. And while his foot injury... He's one year and who knows where he goes next year, even for one year. And he's in year 21. Nobody's ever been successful past year 20 in the NBA.

We're already like in the nobody has ever territory with LeBron. Yes. After the first half that he had in game four against the Nuggets, was that a top 40 performance in the league? In the Western Conference Finals against the team that won the NBA title, he created the opportunity for his team, the best chance for them to win. He was like seven for 30

in the fourth quarters. He was worse than that, I think, from three. Drew Holiday, number 38. Towns, 37.

Lamello, 36. Siakam, 35. And then Jalen Brown at 34 dropped like at least 10 spots I don't know if Towns is too high or too low I don't know the answer to that either

he makes just a crazy amount of money his contract is like absolutely makes you throw up in your mouth it's an impossible situation to get a read on that Minnesota team because Chris Finch, was he an active participant

in trying to get Rudy Gobert there? Was he on board with management? How about Tim Connolly? He built a lot of that Nuggets team, at least the foundation of the top three guys, plus he drafted Porter. And then he goes to Minnesota. He makes the worst trade of the last 15 years. Some people are like, congrats, Tim, on the top three guys. Plus he drafted Porter. And then he goes to Minnesota. He makes the worst trade of the last 15 years.

Some people are like, congrats to him on the nuggets. But meanwhile, he's like just in a fucking eight millimeter Nicholas Cades, Jane Gandolfini, fucking snuff film. I have to push back to tiny, teeniest,

tiniest bit on the worst trade of the last 15 years because Travis Schlenk, who's now in Washington, DC. And I don't know if he golfs or not. I'd like to take him out so he can explain to me why he traded the rights to Luka Doncic for Trey Young, which is the worst trade of the last

15 years. I think he got Cam Reddish out of it. I think the Gobert trade is worse than the Luka trade. What? That Gobert trade is staggering. And now the Kawhi trade, which was defensible, is probably the after the fact,

second guessing worst trade. When you have Shea and 100 draft picks, it's pretty tough. Pretty tough. Like Shea and Jalen Williams, plus all this other stuff. Man. It was, that's a gamble.

All right, next group was Too Young, Too Cheap, Too Good, Please Stop Calling Us. Chet Holmgren, 33. Lori Markin, 32. Walker Kessler, Franz Wagner. And my fucking dude, Jalen Williams at number 29. And I thought about even putting him a little higher. I bet you did. I absolutely love that guy. I can't have Chet here. Chet can't be. So that was my question. Is he too high? He's way too high. Yeah. He needs to, at the very best, he's up with Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson.

You know what I mean? He hasn't played a single game. And who knows? He had a foot injury. The worst possible thing for center. So you think he should be where Cade Cunningham is? Yeah. Yeah.

Up in that or higher. Like you can't have Chet in that category. Why is he there? What possible value does he have around the league? I think he could have played in February and they just sat him. They were being careful. They should be careful. That's exactly the point.

They need to be careful. Yeah, he's too high. I fucked that up. It's okay. Next category. Speaking of fucked that up. Oh, boy. Group F, the incredibly touchable untouchables featuring two people,

Zion Williamson at number 28 and John Moran at number 27. A precipitous fall for him. He felt 20 spots since I did the trade value. I did that trade value at the beginning of February and John's whole career completely flipped shortly after. I admire you working out a way to put them both in group F because that's really where they belong. My goodness.

It's tough. But we agree Ja has more trade value than Zion. Do we? The problem is, yes, because when you size up the two challenges associated with each player, it seems like Zion can work, but there might be five teams. And it seems like Ja's issue, if it can be solved, he can play really anywhere because it's not a function of his talent or his commitment or his ability to

be a successful basketball player. We just need an older, wiser John Morant. I used the Marbury example like 10 days ago and I thought that was a fair one because Marbury was one of those guys, super talented, couldn't stay out of his own way for a few years there. And then all of a sudden, it was like he's on the 09 Celtics and it was like, Jesus, he's not even like 31 yet. So I hope that's not what happens with Ja, but we'll see. I don't think... I mean, the Zion, if you're Charlotte and New Orleans is like, you know what?

We'll give you Zion for number two right now. You'd at least have a long meeting about it. I mean, I think so. Because then you could think, all right, if we can get Zion's head straight, we get LaMelo and Zion. We're at least winning Twitter. And Bridges has already served his suspension.

He's eligible to play in the NBA game one next year. They should just take Scoot. Miles Bridges is eligible to play. And you recall Miles Bridges was having a pretty goddamn good season. Would you trade Lamello for Zion? No. No, I would not. If you're who?

Charlotte. We'll have Lamello at 36 and Zion at 28. I think... I mean, just remember there was a couple times in the last five years when Zion looked like one of the three best offensive players in the entire league. He looked

absolutely devastating. It's really hard to shake that considering he's 23. Next category. Group E. Let me save you some time. Fuck no. 26, Dame lowered, then going down. Mikael Bridges. Big jump for him. Donovan Mitchell, Darius Gardland, Josh Giddey, Jalen Brunson, Anthony Davis at 20, and De'Aaron Fox

at 19. I had a lot of trouble with Mitchell, Garland, and Giddey as it compared to Dame. So I went in order like Portland Cleveland Cleveland says no faster Donovan versus Dame Garland Dame I just I just value Garland more I'm going to die on the Garland Hill I fucking love that guy

I think you are he's still crazy young he's so young if you're Cleveland would you trade Garland for Dame you would so you put Dame and Mitchell. In a heartbeat. So you put Damon Mitchell together. In a heartbeat. Another seasoned veteran with genuine playoff chops who can arrive.

And Donovan Mitchell, his playoff acumen was compromised a little bit by the youth surrounding him. Part of that youth was Darius Garland. I think Donovan Mitchell gets a bump. Yeah, but I would argue Mitchell had the ball too much. And one of their problems that next series was not having enough Darius Garland. A good thing they could have done was also rebound the ball. Yeah, to me, that was like Jared Allen who got knocked off the list. That was an indictment of Jared Allen that series. And Evan Mobley. Yeah. To me, that was like Jared Allen who got knocked off the list.

That was an indictment of Jared Allen that series. And Evan Mobley. Yeah. And Evan Mobley not being ready yet. Yes.

Garland is $33.5 million next year. It's a five-year deal for $194 million, which is about $100 million less than Dame.

Josh Giddey at 22. I had him above Dame and Mitchell and Garland. You agree with that? Super hard to get my arms around it. We haven't seen him in what really amounts to is a true playoff kind of situation. Now, they did make that push

to the 10 spot in the play-in. And they were really super fun to watch. They played a great brand of basketball for the last two and a half months of the season. Their offensive rating was terrific. Can I give you some? They really gelled well. Do you have some numbers? 20 years old.

Yeah. Turns 21 on October 20th. Gosh. 20 years old yeah turns 21 on october 20th gosh 20 years old yeah last season basically 17 8 and 6 and played he fucking played 76 games durable yeah i love that guy i told this story before but that when i went to that lebron scoring record game i was watching him and shea and those guys how they were handling that kind of break. And those guys were just pacing because they wanted to go out and beat the Lakers ass. I love that guy. To me, that is a guy who could have been in the playoff series we just watched. They would have left him open. They would have made him keep shooting. Nobody would have guarded him. He doesn't have an outside

shot yet, but he's going to have one. He's too good of an athlete. He's never not going to have an outside shot. The 20-year-old thing is what makes it. Brunson, 21. I think that's the right. Great contract. Took a team to the second round. Still pretty young.

The most popular Knicks since I would say Bernard. It's amazing. Maybe Ewing. Sprewell, that little Sprewell run. Trying to think of other guys who were in that class. Some would say Carmelo, but I felt like they were talking. Carmelo was like a second wife

somebody was trying to talk themselves into the whole time he was there. It never felt like it was 100% Carmelo. It's our fucking dude. I agree. They loved him that one playoff series. They liked him. He's our fucking dude. I agree. They loved him that one playoff series. They liked him. The 60-point game.

Sure. They loved him. I think now that the years have passed, it's like, man, Carmelo, we fucking love that guy. It's like, eh, it's kind of there for it. Anyway. I don't know if love is the word I would use. Jalen Brunson, beloved.

Beloved. Beloved. What he did last year, more beloved than anything I saw from Carmelo. True story. Four groups left. Budding franchise guys, 18-14. Palo, Halliburton, Mobley, Bam out of bio, climbing up to 15.

Triple J. Wait, you think Bam's too high or too low? I'm fine with Bam because I really feel like this next season is going to be a breakout and this is the thing. I think Miami is like... He's still weirdly young. Do you know there was an incredible future for Miami to win the NBA championship?

I heard you talking about this on Gambling Show. On East Coast Bias. I couldn't believe it. I can't believe that number. It was crazy disrespectful to Miami. The one that I made the noise about is Tyrese Halliburton. For what?

Can he play? He has to play. The Pacers were great when he played and they were terrible when he didn't play. He needs to play. Miami's 18 to one for the title. Is that where they are? They were in the,

like the, I can't remember what the number was. Do you think he drove the line on East Coast Bias? We might have. Plus 700 for the East? We were kind of stunned by whatever the number was. Yeah, maybe they fucked it up. I feel like it was in the 20s.

I'm in on Halbert. And they just sat him because they were trying to lose near the end of the year. Darryl not taking Halbert for Simmons. I don't know. I would say it was the biggest mistake of his career, but he did make that Russell Westbrook-Chris Paul trade. It's very

disrespectful to Darryl. I have to call it like I see it sometimes. Ben Simmons made what? How many all NBA teams? I just value Halliburton. And how many all defense teams? They could have gotten Halliburton and Harrison Barnes.

You value him. How many all NBA teams, all defense teams has Tyrese Halliburton made? It's like 23. I just think that's the kind of guy I want to put next to Embiid. I felt that way at the time. I said it in the moment.

I think he's too high. Okay. So you'd put him where Fox is. Fox has made an all NBA team. Haliburton's on a rookie contract. I understand that point, but that's not sustainable. Haliburton was second team all NBA for most

of the season last year. He didn't end up there. Well, because they stopped playing him. Last three groups. Group C, only if they made us do it. 13, Jimmy Butler. 12, Jamal Murray. 11, Joel Embiid.

10, Kevin Durant. You think Durant's too high. I think he did get traded for Bridges and for first and a pick swap and Cam Johnson. That was a grotesque overpay. It was. By a situation that was looking to cleanse itself

and make a splash. He hasn't done shit since he left Golden State. He hasn't played. He almost beat Milwaukee by himself. He got swept in the first round of the playoffs with his chosen guy. Come on, he had a heroic Milwaukee series. That was great.

Okay. That's one series that you could point to. That was a couple. I don't have him higher than LeBron. Alright, now why is he higher than LeBron? Your medication's wearing off. Because he's 34. Kevin

Durant's awesome. Him and Booker had 86 points in a playoff game against Denver. I want to side-by-side how many games Kevin Durant's awesome. Him and Booker had 86 points in a playoff game against Denver. I want to side by side. A month ago. I want to side by side how many games Kevin Durant's played and how many games LeBron's played. LeBron hasn't played,

I think, 60 games in a season in like six years. Five years. And now do Kevin Durant. It's preposterous. What's preposterous is that range. This is a good bit. It's notosterous. What's preposterous is that range. This is a good bit.

It's not a bit. I need to see him go do something. Are you okay with Jamal Murray 12? He turned his ankle and was out for two weeks in the run-up to the playoffs. He did have a couple injuries. In a warm-up.

I just, I'm basing it off the trade they just made for him. That was an absurd trade that you can't say Jimmy Butler would have gotten all that stuff. It's literally an irrational trade. By that logic, you need to have Rudy Gobert

right next to him. That's literally the case. He should be number nine. Are you okay with Butler at 13? 33 years old makes a shitload of money. I love him so much. He's Jimmy Buckets. He's him.

He's everybody. He's everything that you want out of that dude. It's a respectful place for him to be among those guys. It's not a ranking. The guys that are ahead of him, it's just because they're younger

and their situations are different. That's all. All respect to Jimmy Butler. I have Murray 12 because it's almost a ranking're younger and their situations are different. That's all. All respect to Jimmy Butler. I have Murray 12 because it's almost a ranking tied to Jokic. Because Denver knows, like, we have these two guys. This is the best combination anyone has. And we're never splitting these two up. Here's my argument. Should he be higher?

You absolutely, positively cannot, under any circumstance, have Joel Embiid ahead of Jimmy Butler. You could not. Not after what we just saw. And Mike Lombardi made one of the very best impassioned cases for his concerns around Joel Embiid's career. Somebody's going to hold him accountable and he's going to show up and be the best player in a playoff series. Consistently from the beginning of that playoff series to the end of that playoff series. It was a bad look for the league MVP to not show up in two games

in a seven game series. A bad look. And I know he was hurt and I know he's out of shape, but that is a repeating phenomenon with this dude. So, I cannot have Joel Embiid ahead of that guy. Jimmy Butler, all he

does is take teams with bits and pieces to the conference finals, the Eastern Conference finals, two finals appearances in the last four years. I won't tolerate it. Jimmy Butler needs to be ahead of Joel Embiid. Please. It's a request.

It's a request. That was a really good kiss. Thank you. Were you okay with Evan Mobley being 16? And notice how I put it behind Jaron Jackson because that text Verno sent us in January. It's fine. I really don't have a problem with it.

Verno won't get mad at us now. I don't think that we're over. Verno might move from Memphis. That's what I was hearing. Verno is not moving from Memphis. What I heard is he might move. That's I'm not, I heard he,

I heard Verno's it's timeframe to get out of Memphis. I'm not tolerating this. He doesn't, his son has all these job ranchers is, and he just needs to get out and get a fresh start. That was what I was hearing. Chris Vernon is beloved in Memphis. I went down there and witnessed with my own two eyes. Chris Vernon might be

the most popular person in Memphis after John's last four months. Drippy, Vernon 1, and Jared Jackson 2. Triple J's pretty popular. I'm just kidding. Triple J's pretty popular. Second to last group, the Untouchables. Group B. Three people. Anthony Edwards, 9.

Shea, Gilgis, Alexander, 8. Shea Gilgis-Alexander, eight. Devin Booker, seven. Only thing I had with Devin Booker was whether he should have been nudged to group A. Wow. The completely and utterly untouchable group, and I decided no. I'm surprised to hear you say that. Why is he better than Jamal Murray? Who does he make better?

I mean, Devin Booker's probably better than Jamal Murray. I think there's like, now that we saw Jamal Murray again in the playoffs and being reminded of... If you put Devin Booker with Joker, I'm pretty sure he'd do pretty well. It would be great. Yeah. He'd be legitimately great. And, you know, his ability to go to the hole, I'm sure he averages more free throws than Jamal.

And Jamal, for the purposes of this most recent regular season, really couldn't play. I mean, he played himself back into being Jamal Murray, and then we got to see Jamal Murray again in the playoffs. I love that guy. Yeah. So here's my Anthony Edwards question. Do you see a world where he's a group A guy at any point in the next three years?

Yes. Okay, me too. Group A, last one, completely and utterly untouchable. Six to one. Jason Tatum. Steph Curry. Victor Wibinyama, who's not even in the league yet. Luka Doncic.

Giannis. And our Doey Serbian king, Nikola Jokic at number one. Wimby, are you okay with that spot for him, number four? The only thing that I would say about this group is that Luka should not be three. He should be six. He needs to be behind everybody else. Wow, you want to really ding Luka.

Jesus. Remember, we be behind everybody else. Wow, you want to really ding Luka. Jesus. Remember, we had this wonderful time. There was kind of circularity to this. We were together before the playoffs started as the regular season was ending in April. And we were sitting with exactly right down at the Masters, had a wonderful chat with

the Dude Perfect crew. We should get that picture and post it. We're friends with Dude Perfect crew. We should get that picture and post it. Yeah, we should. We're friends with Dude Perfect now. But the dude from Dallas made a pretty good case for trading Luca kind of now, like looking for the very best value to go grab some of the best assets, the best deal you can make.

But because what you're looking at instead is like another year of this weird drama and you're losing his rookie contract I mean the extension and what comes next with him how are you going to make him happy and he's so ball dominant and without

a guard like Jalen Brunson who's he going to be it was a pretty good case and now I believe that And without a guard like Jalen Brunson, who's he going to be? It was a pretty good case. And now I believe that he might make sense as a trade asset. So Luka for Paolo and number six? No, I'm kidding. I'm just making sure Cerruti's listening.

All right. Wemba Diame, you're good at number four for him? Fine. Yeah. Nobody's trading anything for Wemba Yama, you're good at number four for him? Fine. Yeah. Nobody's trading anything for Wemba Yama. I wonder, will that be the lowest Wemba Yama ranks on the trade value list for the next 15 years? It's very possible. Super.

Remember when he was number four? It's a great call. I love it. And then he averaged 38 points, 20 rebounds, and 10 blocks a game for an entire season and went 16-0 in the playoffs? Oh, I thought we were going the other direction. Oh, that this would be the highest that he's ever

run? Yeah, that he gets to San Antonio and it's not in a big enough city. The lights aren't bright enough for him and he ends up on dishonorable mention. I think he's got it. Yeah. I've been watching some interviews and clips of him. He's fucking cool. Yeah, great.

He might be the coolest French person since Noah. You're kind of making my case, though. What if San Antonio wasn't a big enough town for him? He'd love San Antonio, though. It'd be like you playing for Washington. It would be great. All right, take a break, and then House is going to recap the US Open for us.

All right, so we mentioned the US Open is at LACC here in Los Angeles. Joe House has been to the last two Masters. He's been to the last two US Opens. Last year was at Brookline, Massachusetts. It seems so long ago. Coming off a tough Celtics Warriors loss, but feeling like the Celtics

were headed to this great place. I had a coach, some cap space. It's a great time. It's a great memories house. Now US Open today, course played a little easy and Ricky Fowler laid some smoke. The Americans in general laid some smoke, which is somewhat unusual, right? To have that many Americans. At one point in the leaderboard, it's like eight or 10, like an hour and a half ago, or just American flags next to each guy.

But what did you notice walking around? What was your big takeaway? So in the build up to this event, and it's a remarkable golf course, a remarkable piece of property, designed by an architect who's revered and it is very much unlike other places that the US Open

has been competed. It has a certain character that you don't see typically in US Opens. You can see downtown LA in different parts, right? Yeah, yeah. Some office buildings. The L.A. Canyon, that canyon life,

that canyon kind of terrain is not like your typical, maybe it's a tiny bit like Pinehurst in North Carolina where there's sand and there's scrub and there's rough and the grasses are different. They have a different texture. But no professional tournament has been competed at this venue since 1940. So you can't really forecast how the professionals are going to play. And a ton of guys were practicing like in the run-up to this U S open well in advance of kind of the typical practice schedule. And then onsite Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

The golf course had tons of guys on it because they wanted to... The reputation for this golf course is that it really requires strategic thinking, cerebral, because the ball is going to behave in unpredictable ways. Everything we aren't on a golf course. We are not capable of meeting any of those challenges. You're right about that.

But one of the things that we observed and that we were looking at is the combination of the most rain that Los Angeles has experienced in over a decade, maybe longer than that, combined with the June gloom, the marine layer kind of thing had the double effect of kind of creating a softer golf course than what the character of this golf course might otherwise be. A flaccid golf course. I love it when you talk Dickie to me. Yes. Yes. The golf course was flaccid. and this golf course some viagra we we were walking the grounds literally feeling the grass under our feet and there is there's humidity in the air here yeah that june is fucking weird here yeah it's very strange so it led to the possibility we said this on on our preview pod last night nathan hubbard and I, that there could be some low scores because of how soft. We were very lucky. We got to walk inside the ropes with Joel Damon, who is the greatest dude ever.

And we walked nine holes with him. And we watched him hit. And we watched him and his caddie, Gino B, talk through strategy and stuff. But we're like, you know what? Some guys might score out here. And we thought if the weather was like it was today, similar to yesterday, the sun never came out,

it never really baked anything out, and the USGA has to, because it's 156 guys playing in this US Open, has to put pins in places that are kind of accessible because you cannot have guys out there grinding. The rounds already were averaging over five hours. To get in all of the rounds Thursday, all the rounds Friday, they have to let the guys have a chance to score a little bit. So you think that's the case on Friday too then? Possibly Possibly, probably. They can't really ramp up the golf course

in a way that they can control it until the sun comes out and maybe there's some sun in the forecast tomorrow afternoon, we think. But also until there's less guys on the golf course. Because part of the charm of the place is tees and greens are very

close to each other, but you can't have groups waiting to tee off because there's a group adjacent to them, very close to each other, but you can't have groups waiting to tee off because there's a group adjacent to them, very close to them, next to them, finishing up putting on the thing or playing the short game because the pin is in some impossible position. Yeah.

So all that leads to accessible pins, soft golf course. These guys are effing awesome. And so we had two guys shoot scores today that have never been shot in the history of the U.S. Open. Both Xander Shoffley and Ricky Fowler shot

62s, eight under par. What's Ricky Fowler? What NBA player is Ricky Fowler? Oh, this is a great question. I think we've done this before. He was fun like seven years ago. And he's still immensely popular. And he has some wins under his belt.

It might be Dame. Maybe a little Dame. I don't know. I don't mean that as a knock. I bet you offended some Portland golf fan who said, what the fuck? Really? Dame's so much better than Ricky Fowler. I don't know.

I like it. Dame did get to a Western Conference Finals. Maybe he's Bradley Beal. Though, Ricky Fowler did have a year where he finished inside the top five of every major in one year. Oh, that's him. That's pretty fucking good. Great one.

Yeah. So the odds right now, Xander is the favorite as we head to Friday at plus 300. Rory is at plus 500. You're kryptonite. Ricky- Not my kryptonite, my love. Well, you're kryptonite because he takes money out of your wallet every tournament. It's just an investment.

I'm invested in Rory. Ricky Fowler, somehow, plus 650. Not somehow. He's eight under par. Well, I would have thought that would have been higher. He's minus eight right now. He's third best odds. Scheffler, plus 650.

DJ's eight to us. It's so good to see DJ back in the mix. So, you have any bets for us before we go? What are you looking for tomorrow? Plus 650 DJs. It's so good to see DJ back in the mix. So who, uh, you have any bets for us before we go? What are you looking for tomorrow? Um, I think it's going to be very similar to today. Uh,

they will put the pins probably in, in positions where there's a little more scoring defense, but I still think guys are going to score just fine. Um, and I think that as long as the weather behaves like this, they re it really isn't anything they can do because they have to get the guys around the golf course. They don't want guys playing on Saturday morning.

My favorite bet on the board right this second to win the U.S. Open is Scotty Scheffler at plus 650 out of all these guys. He putted incredibly well today. Oh, he fixed the putting thing? Well, we fixed, I don't know. We'll see. And all the reports and interviews and everything. Thursday, Scottie fixing?

It's his best putting performance in like, you know, two months. And so if he has a comfort with that, his tee to green game is so incredible otherwise that I like this. When you look at the guys that he

has to jump over I feel like it's conquerable want to give us one dark horse let's go further down the board let's go to the our guy Vic Hovland is 35 to one beefy Bryson 25 to one

beefy Bryson beefy Bryson is interesting because there was some skepticism about his ability to play well at this venue because he has a reputation of just trying to hit it anywhere. And Nate said on your pod he was looking huge. Yeah, we got very close to him. We were down on the practice range yesterday enjoying enjoying um you know watching the guys grind in the afternoon he's a monster and he's still i mean he really slimmed down he's not carrying the same weight that he carried when he bulked up to be one of the great longer hitters in the game but he's still big he still swings with speed all the training that he went through but he also has and

he showed it at um oak at the PGA Championship, a real acumen with approach. And there was some skepticism about whether or not he'd be hitting greens kind of in regulation. He's decent at it. So Bryson's not a terrible bet there. Rahm at 20-1 is pretty good because that's a guy who could definitely go out. He should take a 61.

He could. There's no two ways about it. He was super frustrated today and that's the thing where you're saying what's John Rahm, what kind of experience is he going to have at this golf course? He's going to be pissed off. Well, is pissed off John Rahm the guy that can win? Probably not, but what if he goes home, has a nice Merlot tonight?

Yeah. I don't know if Jose Andres is here. You get a nice paella at one of the Jose Andres is here. Get a nice paella at one of the Jose Andres restaurants and then just calm, get himself into his end zone and go shoot 61 and then we're game on. Did you like this golf course more than

Brookline last year? Very much so. Part of it is me confessing a bias. I love the Brookline course. I grew up right near there. That's the thing. But actually, as an actual course, it's not amazing. East Coast golf courses, I know what they look like.

I know what they feel like. This feels exotic to me. I don't get to walk around the LA canyons very often. You know what I mean? And it's like you're down and up. Here's the thing. It's a harder walk than Augusta. And you and I have walked Augusta.

It's like at all of this crazy. Now you walk, it's more sort of graduated. It's not as dramatic. Giant ski slope kind of swoops the way that Augusta is. Augusta is a bowl. So when you walk down into the bowl and then walk back up, it feels dramatic.

But this place has your down, down, down. Tremendous elevation variation across it. I really enjoy it so much. We might be there tomorrow. Fingers crossed. It's very possible. Let's do this. House, great to have you in town. Thank you.

Good to see you. were you happy with the last succession episode right for the most part it's fine what's your show now I don't know you tell me I'm here in Los Angeles I need a show I watched the first season of Black Mirror oh you know what my show is and I haven't watched one second of it yet

The Idol oh you know I found somebody else who likes The Idol. Oh, you know, I found somebody else who likes The Idol. Wesley Morris, two-time Pulitzer Prize winner. We might do The Idol on The Prestige next week. He gets it.

Okay. People just come to The Idol side. I'm on The Idol. That's my show. I told you you'd be on The Idol. Yeah, you did. That show, I just,

The Idol's misunderstood. That's my column. All right, this podcast was produced by married guy, Kyle Creighton. I'm not even going to make him bleep it. What are you going to say? Oh, you. Kyle, the married. He's got to bleep it now.

That was your wedding gift. Congratulations, Kyle. Steve Cerruti as well. County dad of the day. Still the magic have two picks in the top 11. I will see you on this speed on Sunday with Rosillo. Enjoy the weekend. I'm a Bruce O'Leary I don't have to Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER

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