The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Two-Week NBA Check-in With Big Wos and Jake Paul on Changing Boxing and Influencer Culture

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lambre to discuss NBA story lines through two weeks. They discuss the Heat’s impressive start, the Bulls’ defensive prowess, the Celtics’ struggles, the Hawks, questions surrounding the Nets, the Lakers’ roster, and more (2:22). Then Bill talks with Jake Paul about his and his brother’s meteoric rise across social media, his pivot to boxing, learning from mistakes, promoting fights, and much more (51:15). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Jake Paul and Wosny Lambre Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you missed it, we announced that the Music Box series is launching on HBO on November 18th. You might remember we did a sneak preview this summer of the Woodstock 99 doc. That was the first film. We have five more films coming. The first one will be Jagged about Alanis Morissette. That is November 18th, Thursday night, HBO and on HBO Max right away. And then the next four Thursdays, DMX, Kenny G, Robert Stigwood, Juice WRLD. I'm so proud of this series. It's been a three-year odyssey and can't wait for everyone to watch it. If you want to watch the trailer,

go to my Twitter feed and you will see it. Music Box, November 18th, HBO and HBO Max. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day. All the gang's here.

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90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to

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Also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where on the rewatchables, it happened. We reeled in the director of Heat, Michael Mann. We did the three Heat, the third time we've done Heat, but we had to do it a third time because Michael Mann joined us and we broke down the film and it seemed like people really liked it. I love doing it. It was great talking to him. Will there ever be a four heat? I don't know. This might be a mic drop at

the three heat, but if you missed it, check out the rewatchables. Don't forget to check out the Prestige TV podcast as well. Joe House and I broke down the second episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm there. Coming up, Big Waz, Wazney Lambry is going to come on to talk about the East. What do we make of the East? Teams go in all different directions that we thought. We're going to talk about all of them, do a little Lakers, a little Zion. And then Jake Paul, who has a big fight coming up next month. But I had never had a Paul brother on the pod. I wanted to find out about this whole influencer culture

and how it ties into boxing and all that kind of stuff. So that is the podcast for today. First, our friendsaz is here. I was going to do like a little solo NBA thing tonight. And then I looked at the schedule and it was a disaster. And I called Waz. It was a little after four o'clock Pacific time. I'm like, let's just shoot the schedule and it was a disaster. And I called Waz. It was a little after four o'clock Pacific time. I'm like, let's just shoot the shit about NBA

for a half hour because the games suck. And there's good storylines that I care about. Let's talk East first. The East, we're two weeks in. I'm not ready to say the East is wide open. And we know this is a marathon, not a sprint. But we know a couple things. We know James Harden is not in shape.

We know Kyrie Irving isn't playing. We know Milwaukee is already like guys are missing games, stuff like that. We know your Hawks offensively do not look the same. But the biggest thing from the first two weeks is that Miami has the look. And I didn't know they were going to do this. I thought this was going to be a cruise through the regular season, turn it on in the playoffs team. They kind of have the look. Do you see it? Yeah, I do see it. And obviously we came into the season understanding that they would be one of the best, if not the best defensive team in the NBA. But I think on offense, what we're seeing with Kyle Lowry,

what he's doing for their pace, we don't think of Kyle Lowry as a pace guy anymore, but even at age 34, 35, whatever he is, he's still a pace dude. And I think a lot of people had Tyler Hero having a comeback season, but he's doing it. My man Cooper Moorhead tweeted out a stat today where he's under 30 minutes a game or he's at like 30 minutes a game, but he's at a 30% usage. And a lot of that is playmaking.

And so he's taking a step offensively for them in a way where it's like, all right, we knew when you have PJ Tucker, Kyle Lowry, Bam Adebayo, Jimmy Butler, you're going to defend the hell out of people. But offensively, they look better than we thought they would. I like how you called it a comeback season. It's his third year in the league, but it really was. He sucked last year. His rookie cards went in the tank. Everybody got upset. It seemed a little fluky. But there were signs in the preseason because he was kicking ass.

And they figured out how to use him. He comes off the bench as this, like, you know, like the old school Jamal Crawford kind of, he comes in, he takes over your offense, he does stuff. I'm with you on the pace. I didn't expect that from Lowry. I guess I didn't expect that from Lowry. I guess I didn't read enough about the Heat. I took them seriously as a possible fringe contender when we got into

the spring and maybe even a real contender of some things, Gerald. But I didn't realize they were going to be as kind of dynamic. I didn't realize they were going to be a good league pass team. Yeah. And you know, the problem too, too bill when you have a team that sits veteran laden as them we think of veteran teams as switch teams um and we'll talk about the hawks later on but like veteran teams are generally switch teams like i think the lakers are a switch team um in the sense that it's just like look 82 games my bones are old like i've been through the playoff crucible i i like i'm not one of these teams that thinks i know what it takes like i actually have the knowledge of what it takes to

get through the grind of a postseason i'm not doing this regular season stuff but these guys have come out on a mission and they play with vigor every single night and it, it's been really cool to watch. I was thinking about the six degrees of Ben Simmons, how if Jimmy Butler liked playing with Ben Simmons, wow. I think he stays in Philly, right? Yeah. Because they had something, they were pretty close that year. And that was the best we've seen of Simmons in the playoffs, even though he wasn't, he had all the limitations he had the other years, but at least, you know, that, that team was the closest, even though he had all the limitations he had the other years. But at least that team was the closest, I think, out of all those Philly teams to actually looking like something. And then Butler, I don't know whether Philly was afraid because the more he had the ball, maybe that took some stuff away from Simmons and Bede. Maybe he sniffed something

out with Simmons that he didn't like. If you read the tea leaves, it does seem like he didn't feel like those guys took it seriously enough, but he was way more team and Bede than team Simmons. And he goes to Miami and that opens the door. Miami being a good team comes down to the band pick,

which was a great pick. The coin flip with the Celtics to land in the spot that gets the Tyler pick. Butler deciding he doesn't like Philly the same year they have the Cavs space. And then them pulling off this Lowry thing because the heat culture and Jimmy and all that. And then you look at it, it's like,

this is a pretty unusual way to build a contender. They didn't have the lottery pick in place. They didn't, you know, they didn't really completely tank. Pretty shrewd. I'm't, you know, they didn't really completely tank. Pretty shrewd. I'm impressed. You know, it's interesting because I think a lot of us, you included, Bill, have been pretty, like, eye-rolly about this concept of heat culture. But at the same time, I think what it really means is about setting a pecking order. And Jimmy's previous two stops, when it came to, like, the Sixers,

it's like, there's no established pecking order. You guys are kissing Ben Simmons' ass. This guy's not that good. Yeah, you're enabling him. Yeah, doesn't want it that bad. I'm out of here. This is ridiculous culturally. And the same could be said about Wiggins and Carl Towns.

But Jimmy's like, why are we cow-towing to these kids? They're not that good. They don't take it seriously enough. This culture is ridiculous. Because again, he started out with Tibbs. So then he goes to Miami and it's like, all right, see, this all makes sense. Like we understand that everything flows from the top with Riley and Spolstra and all of them.

And then, like, we establish a culture where everybody's held accountable, et cetera, et cetera. And then, of course, like you said, they land on Bam. They have, like, the type of place where the minute P.J. Tucker lands in their building, like, it's making sense, right? Like, he's the type of player that fits perfectly into what they're doing and you know to get tyler hero to sort of define a role for him that takes a certain level of thinking and emotional intelligence on the part of the organization to be like all right here's where this piece perfectly fits and then you know their player development stuff with people like duncan rob Robinson is legendary.

Good shooters. Yeah. And it's funny because not everyone fits in with that team, right? Iguodala never seemed like he totally fit in. Bielitsa.

Sure. You know, he finally finds a home in Golden State. I'll never be able to say his name correctly. But, you know, it seems like it's certain type of guys.

But the Butler-Lauer thing's been great so far. It's really alpha doggy. They seem like they should be hanging out on a porch with their shirts off. Just being alphas. But the thing about it is that they're both so psychotic about their profession that they feel like kindred spirits. It's like we are so in tune. psychotic about their profession that they feel like kindred spirits is like,

we are so in tune. It's almost telepathic about what we think basketball is and how people should go about the business of basketball. Then again, this, this is no brainers. Like these kinds of like Kyle Lowry, PJ Tucker, Jimmy Butler, Bam out of bio. These guys are so obviously heat people. And so that it's working doesn't seem that, you know, crazy to me. However, you know. Well, Lowry's old. It's early and Lowry's old.

We got to go 34 weeks here. Right. Jimmy's had the injury stuff. Lowry is getting way older. Hopefully these guys hold up, but I'm not surprised that it's working. It makes sense. So I'm not ready to say I was wrong about the heat as a regular season team, but it looks like I'm heading that way. I still, I wonder about the older guys and especially if they're going to put this pace, but I really like what I see from them. They're

really fun to watch the bulls. So I've seen a seen a lot of, I still don't love them defensively. Now, of course, the Celtics couldn't exploit it last night because of myriad strategy problems that that team has. Oh, my God. I don't even want to talk about them. I know we're going to. Defensively, a little better than I thought. I thought they were going to be like a turnstile.

Vucevic, though, like, of course, the Celtics only attacked him twice in the last eight minutes of the game when we needed baskets. I was going nuts. But the Caruso piece, where they lose Patrick Williams, you think like, oh my God, they lost their best perimeter defender. Caruso came in. They can go a little small ball-ish

with Caruso. DeRozan, he's not awful defensively. He's a smart enough player that he's not going to be horribly out of position. But you run him through enough screens and stuff like that, it's over. It's like how Jokic knows where to go and what to do. He's not like a complete catastrophe. So anyway, they're a little better defensive than I thought.

But man, that team gets good shots. It was really frustrating last night. I liked all the shots they got when they were coming back. It wasn't just that Boston kind of fell apart a little bit and missed some wide open shots, things like that. But then you go on the other end and every time, balls moving around, balls finding the right people. They have two guys they know they can go to. Vucevic didn't even play well last night. So I'm a little higher on them than I think I was two weeks ago. Where do you stand? I was never low on the Bulls, although, you know, I was talking to Goff earlier today on his show about the Bulls, and I think a couple of Bulls fans hit me. It was like, oh, you hated on the move. I was like, I thought it made sense as far as derosen being over the years he's

cultivated his game to become more of a playmaker like in san antonio he was their de facto point guard so he has that in him as far as elite playmaking on the ball type of stuff and levine was going to be levine he didn't have to shoulder the burden. And he could, when you got somebody who can shoot like that, it opens everything else up, right? Like, he can be dangerous off the ball with his movement, not just cutting. Him as a screen setter, like, that sends a defense into a tizzy, right? Like, when a guy who's that good at shooting

is himself setting amazing screens. We've seen that in Golden State over the years with both Steph and Klay Thompson where what they're doing off the ball sends defenses into a tailspin. And then, of course, the Lonzo Ball of it all where there's just something about his smarts on the court, his understanding of what defenses are trying to do,

and his willingness to get it out quick, quick, quick, quick, quick in transition and just in the half court, where it's like he's not taking 20,000 dribbles and then giving it up. He's getting it, making the read, quick pass. It just all makes sense. And, you know, we're here in LA, Bill, so we understand the Caruso sanity stuff

in a different way. But I think people around the country was like, all right, this is just a Laker guy getting way more attention than he deserves. But no, Caruso comes on the court, he changed the complexion of the game. His physicality on defense, his instincts, his athleticism, where he's disrupting all kinds of things, and he's a menacing transition. I just think once they brought Ball and Caruso in, I loved their offseason.

Obviously, some people were whatever they were about DeMar DeRozan and the price tag, etc., etc., but Ball and Caruso, it's just been incredible to watch them. I did not like the DeRozan trade, and I think I might have been wrong because it's not like the Drozan trade, and I think I might have been wrong. Because it's not like they gave up anything. Basically, Thad Young's not even playing for the Spurs.

Two thoughts. One, the Lonzo thing kills me because that's how I wanted the Celtics somewhere to go. I wanted them to trade smart for Lonzo. I was hoping it was headed that way, that New Orleans was like, oh, smart veteran presence for our guys and that that would be the move. But it seems like that Bulls thing was done with Lonzo for long enough that they might get a tampering sort of something. But it's a bummer because I just think Lonzo, fun to play with, doesn't need the ball, is

the type of guy that would be perfect for the Celts. The Caruso thing, I was thinking about the bubble where you think there's a lot of reasons they won. And I think Adande on my pod a couple of weeks ago made the key point about where they had this rest time where they were able to recharge their batteries, which was great for LeBron, right? He had to go 10 weeks. He was in awesome shape. He was amazing in the bubble. Yeah. And that was physically about as good as he's ever going to look in a playoffs at the age he's at. But they had three wings that were pretty high level defenders. KCP, Danny Green, Caruso. And all those guys are now not on the Lakers.

I don't want to do a Lakers tangent, but they have no wings now. They have nobody to defend really anybody. And they just threw that away. And it's weird to me that they didn't understand. I think a pretty big piece of why they won, other than having Davis and LeBron, was the flexibility they had defensively with those perimeter guys. I mean, the only thing I've heard trotted out with Caruso,

because Caruso just felt like a money dump at the time. That was just completely unnecessary. But they said in order to get guys like Monk and other people to come in on really cheap deals was they had to promise them playing time. And so in order to get a few guys for the one, they had to let Caruso go. I just thought it was insane. But they picked Cort and Tucker over him, though. Which, again, that's where I have a problem. I don't know.

If you just look at the lineup data of LeBron and Caruso on the court together over the last few years, they are just smoking people. He became, like, one of the best teammates to put on the floor next to LeBron. Like, what they would—with him, LeBron and AD would accomplish in transition was just amazing. And it was another way for the Lakers to generate buckets while not having to be in the half court all the time. And we know over the years, people did the concern trolling about their shooting, which some of it was warranted. But for me, it was just like, this unit is so elite on defense.

They're constantly getting runouts, constantly getting transition buckets. They make up for it in efficiency because they're so good on a transition and they're getting easy baskets, et cetera. But yeah, the Caruso thing, I still continue to think that's a crime. Like that guy should have never left the Lakers building. Well, and it's one of those

where you see this happen in the NBA. You see the NFL too. The guy who was on a championship team, the role player who ends up getting overpaid and free agency by the team. Who's trying to like, Oh, we're going to bring this guy in. He knows how to win.

It's usually a disaster. It doesn't feel like a disaster in this case. The Patrick Williams thing really sucks for them though, because I, you know, but then they had guys yesterday I've never heard of who were making big shots. I, at Chicago, I think the over-under was 42 and a half. I think I went under.

The big mistake I made was the Celts. The Celts are a lottery team. This is, they are, they're a lottery team. This is a roster that doesn't make sense, that doesn't like playing basketball with each other. And they threw this new coach in who I have no idea if Adoka is going to be good at some point in his life, but he's learning how to be a head coach in real time. As this season is starting to slip away a couple of weeks in,

and we have Jason Tatum here, you know, still recruiting Bradley Beal. It's like, worry about your own fucking team, dude. You're 23. You've never made a finals.

You're not like LeBron in 2013 recruiting people for the three-peat. You've barely done anything yet. Worry about the guys you have. You have a good team. Stop flirting with Bradley Beal. My dad was so upset Saturday night. They lose double OT.

And it's like, cut it right after. Tatum and Beal have to have their whole hug fest. It's like, get fucking over it. Go to the locker room. Deal with the loss. This has been, I hate this season was. Kyle, don't send this to the social team. I don't want this social quip.

I'm angry. I'm hurt. Don't exploit me for social media views. I'm angry. I'm hurt. Don't exploit me for social media views. I'm upset. Look, there's so much going on and I think the Jimmy Butler stuff is instructive, right?

In the sense that the hierarchy on that team is a weird one because Marcus Smart was always the teacher's pet with Brad Stevens and the other two guys were the best players but Marcus Smart was also like the I hate using this term but he was the alpha in the locker room where he was like the soul of the team he was like the spiritual leader of the team but he's by far not the best player and your two best guys kind of seem like

they don't really care to be those kinds of dudes they don't really care to be getting in nobody's face or yelling in the locker room or throwing something down they want to come in do their job and leave and so because that leadership vacuum was filled by a guy who ideally is the fourth and fifth best player on a really good team i think you see the difficulty that's pushing it and right he's got his pr is like eight right now he's really like an offensive liability and he's like i need more shots right and and so you have a situation in a game where, sure, they scored 11 points in the fourth quarter, but they gave up 40.

I just feel like as somebody with any level of self-awareness to come out after a game where you give up 130 in regulation to say the problem is the shot distribution of your team. Also, I went and watched the second half again. They got mostly good shots and good drives. They just missed the shots. They didn't hustle back on D a couple times. And they don't play well together.

And then as things break down, they walk the ball up the court. They dump it to Tatum, 25 feet from the basket. Everybody kind of stands around. And then he tries to decide what to do. The smart thing, though, I always watch the visiting announcers when I watch the Celts, if I'm

catching up. And they're always like, Marcus Smart is the heart and soul of the Celtics team. It's like, we haven't had a heart and a soul in 18 months. So maybe that's part of the problem. We have no heart and no soul. We roll over and over and over again. Since that loss to the Heat in the bubble,

it's been a disaster for these guys. And, you know, again, and I mentioned this with Jason as well, it's like all of the hand-wringing and ass-kissing and the untouchability of Brown and Tatum, which I'm not saying you trade these guys tomorrow, but that's why I was always kind of like, just like, I mean, really?

These guys are untouchable. I think when you become a superstar, right? Like you are when you become the Hardens, the LeBrons, the best players in the league, these ball-dominant guys. The only thing that Marcus Smart does have a point about, you are elite at playmaking. You are elite at making other people better. It's not just that you hit the guy on the short roll.

It's that you hit the guy on the weak side corner with that one bullet pass, one pass as the defense is shaded towards you, open corner three, right? Like when you're making those level of plays and those level of reads, that's what makes you a superstar. And God bless Brown.

I love Brown. I've actually been hashtag, you know, Brown over Tatum trolley on the internet for years now. I love his game, but neither him nor Tatum have elevated their playmaking on the ball to the level that would, you know, demand that these guys get treated like these upper echelon superstar type of guys in the league. And, you know, and the honest truth is like Marcus Smart is saying the right thing, but

it can't be you that's saying it. Because like, bro, you're like the sixth best player on the team. You're taking 30 footers, seven of them each game. Like, you got to miss me, Marcus Smart. Also, the reason they self-destructed in that game, I'm going to tell you right after the break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.

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Just put a bow in this Celtics combo. The part that frightened me the most with the Marcus Smart comments after the game, the heart and soul of the team, was he didn't even have the Marcus Smart comments after the game? The heart and soul of the team? Was he didn't even have the right reason they lost the game. The ball did move. Josh Richardson,

who I still don't know why they traded for him. He hasn't been good in two and a half years. They trade for him. They give him a one-year extension. He's out there for 25 minutes last night. He was minus 21, and that only told half the story. He missed over and over again, wide open threes. And then at some point when he's out there and smarts out there at the same time, Chicago is like, cool, we don't have to guard either of these guys. We're good. We're just going to pack in.

We're going to double Tatum and we're going to make this really hard for you. And thank God you're not putting Vucevic in a pick and roll or screwed. Cause we did that twice in eight minutes. The, the lack of like a real above average point guard. I like Schroeder, but he's, he's a six main trick or treat guy. Smart as a six main trick or treat guy.

Those guys are both out there on crunch time. And then it's like, Oh, no wonder we had 11 points in the fourth quarter because we have two trick or treat guards. It's the calibration. this team is off. And the thing that drives me nuts is that Nisman's not playing because I actually think he has a chance to be good. And they're playing Richardson over him. I know where I stand on Richardson. So on top of it, you have Stevens, who is a really good coach,

who I guess got burned out on this roster and vice versa. But we had a good coach last year and a team that kind of underperformed for him. And I get it. And now we're starting over with a new coach who's trying to figure out who he is. He stands for three hours like a football defensive coordinator on the sideline. It's like, well, that every other successful coach is way more calm than this dude. It's game seven. He called them out for their intensity twice last week. It's like, it's October. We just started the season. We're having intensity issues. So the fact they're two and five, they've lost every close game except for the Charlotte one that they should have lost. But LaMelo's taken 30 footers and it's not great.

Was we have like the seventh and eighth scores in the league right now. Brown and Tatum are averaging like 53 or 54 points combined, something like that. Like you shouldn't be two and five if you have two offensive players like that. To me, that's the worst part of this. Basically, offensively, they're doing what the Clippers thought they were getting

with Kawhi and George, right? It's like, we'll get Kawhi and George. They'll score 53 to 55 points a game and play great D on the other end. The Celtics kind of have that, and they're still not good. Yeah, they... Defensively, they're a weird team still.

They're 30th in points. Points allowed. 30th in points allowed on D. That is just something you was just unheard of, especially when Stevens first took over the team. Like, that was kind of the identity of the team was that they were going to be elite on defense every single

year. That's just no longer the case. Like, the fact that they're stinking to join up defensively, that's what's got to be the most disheartening part about all of this because they've given up more points than OKC, who plays Poku and Josh Giddy. OKC is better defensively. I mean, what are we talking about? Poku plays

20 minutes a game for OKC. They're better defensively. Yeah. And, you know, your wing rotation or guys with big defensive reputations, right? Like, even Jason Tatum at this point has a good defensive reputation. Brown's considered an elite wing defender. You know, Marcus Smart, people would talk to him for defensive play of the year type of stuff. Not if you're watching him every day. Bad points of his career. It's just wild to watch them just be this bad on defense, right?

Like, that was the point of bringing Big Al back. That was the point of. Big Al's been good. I actually, he's been, he's exceeded my expectations. And he still has some legs, which I was surprised by. Yeah, and Time Lord, like, I don't know. When I watch him, like, I feel like he has all the tools and the makings of a dominant defensive player.

Like, I've seen him swallow up, you know, possessions where he switched out onto a guard very late and he couldn't do anything. When I've seen him protect the rim, it just doesn't work out on a possession-by-possession basis. Like, he has moments where you think he's Bill Russell damn near. I was going to say Time Lord is the classic. You could make an awesome YouTube clip of him.

Right. And you could make a YouTube clip that makes it look like he's Darko Milicic in 2005. You can make two. Where do we go from here, Bill? What would you like to see the team do? Well, I know the best thing that can happen for them right now is the Patriots keep winning.

Because the AFC is wide open for the Pats right now. It's just over and over again, things are moving toward the Pats being a sleeper. And the Red Sox maybe signing a big free agent, something like that. But the longer that people in Boston are just staring at this team, the Tatum Brown stuff's going to start.

Bob Ryan said it on my, when he came on my pod last week, he brought it up and I was surprised, but I was kind of like, this sounds, this is something my dad's been saying. Are we sure these guys belong on the same team? Are they redundant? Do they make each other better? Is there too much your turn, my turn? Can you have two swing guys in this day and age with the way we play basketball now that kind of don't really make anyone better, but they're great players. Everyone would want them on their team. Do they make sense together? And it's the first time in the last week that I've been really thinking about, do these guys play well together? So that's what I'm watching from now on.

They're 2-5. I think they could easily be 5-2. I'm not going to go crazy. But I am watching that now in the back of my head. I'm watching how they play together, how they interact on the court, and things that I just wasn't doing last year. Yeah, I just tend to disagree with that. I think the problem is that neither one of them is

as good as the celtics need them to be for it to ultimately matter right like i think about like let's just say you replace tim hardaway jr with jalen brown like it's obvious that that works with luka donchic right because it's like, we have another one-on-one breakdown guy. And Luka does all of the playmaking, setting guys up in between all of that, while also being somebody who breaks people down one-on-one, right? I think if you had the guy who did the job that you need of soaking up possessions and finding people on a consistent basis, then it would work more.

Well, it's basically Kyle Lowry, right? Like if they got Kyle Lowry that summer, that summer, that's a table setter. Yeah, right. It's just like the super elite guys wear all of these hats like LeBron, Luka, KD, you know, Harden before his hammy. He turned into mush. But that's not Brown or Tatum. They almost need like that third guy. But part of the problem with this team is I think some people think smart is that guy.

And I'm just telling you, he's not. Like, he's just not. I listen to the announcers on the other team and they think he's, they do the heart and soul thing. He's not an all-star. He's not a borderline all-star. He's great. He's great in a playoff series. He's going to go to another team at some point,

and he'll be awesome, and he'll be a big part of some playoff run, and people will be like, oh, my God, I can't believe how great this guy is. That's going to be his destiny with this. I don't think he's long for the team. I really don't. Yeah, he has to play with a ball-dominant guy

who actually can find people, right? I think Marcus Smart would play perfectly next to LeBron. He'd be like a kind of souped-up version of AC, right? Where it's like, all right, you're doing this stuff in very, like, spot duty. Most of the time when you're on the court, you're with a guy who is masterful at table setting. Because he would scale it back because the guy's so great, he's not going to think, like, all right, now here's my turn.

I thought him calling out those guys yesterday was crazy. That was a crazy thing to do. It really was. It's like you're just starting a shitstorm. He's smart enough to know not to do that. But he's been empowered to do it basically his whole tenure there. And so, how do you get him

to stop doing that in that building? Yeah. The Hawks. Let's hit them quick. By the way, just to put a bow on the Celts, I'm not writing off the season. I'm not panicking yet. They still have two really good players who are both probably going to make the All-Star

team. The foundation is there. I would still rather have the talent that this team has over a lot of other teams. I just don't understand why they're this team has over a lot of other teams. I just don't understand why they're so hard to watch. But I think two weeks from now, we'll know more. The Hawks, I'm going to throw this theory at you. Is it a too many guys issue? I said this, I remember I had Daryl Moran once and I talked about this where he got really mad at me. There was this one Houston Rockets here and I was like, I think you have too many guys.

He was like, that's absurd. How do you have too many guys? It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It's like saying you have too much money. Like that's ridiculous. And I'm like, eh. So only 240 minutes in a basketball game for a roster to play.

And you have 10 guys who think they're 30 to 35 minute guys. It's going to be a problem. I wonder what the Hawks, do they have with the 240 minute rule, do they have too many guys who think they should be playing 30 to 35 minutes? The minutes thing is interesting. The reason why I don't worry about it is because it feels like pretty defined roles in the sense that the second best player is John Collins,

and he's not a ball-dominant person, right? And I'm watching him last night against a pretty damn good Wizards team, and Collins does everything that you need from him. He plays so physically on both ends of the court, right? When they try to, like, because the pick and roll with him and Trey Young is so hard to defend because he's such a vertical spacing guy. And he's a pick and pop guy threat. And so a lot of times teams are like, all right,

our best option here is probably to switch our guard onto him. And John Collins is like, I'm not having any of that. Like, you put a guard on me. I'm muscling this little guy up and I'm putting him under the basket. I'm getting fouled. Then he's catching the ball on the short roll, and he's got this interior passing synergy with Capella that I'm just like, holy moly.

I think— So you like the ceiling. I love it because the only people who might have a gripe about their touches are Hunter and Cam Reddish. Where it's just like, excuse me. You can cry about it, but we don't actually have to take you seriously. Werner got paid already. Bogey's already paid. So Reddish and hunter are the issues

who could potentially come through and say oh i feel a way about my role on the team everybody else kind of understands what they need to do and offensively i just think they're so explosive like there was just a back-to-back to back possessions where trey hits a freaking 30 footer then bogey hits one then they get one in transition. I'm like, this is the type of explosion on offense of how you blow teams out. What I'm worried about is they're one of those teams that are so talented offensively,

I wonder if they have the mindset to put it together every night on defense. Last night they had stretches against the Wizards where I was just like, like oh this is looking amazing right like collins on help side collins on switches capella protecting the rim um just just huge wings in hunter and um and reddish like in the passing lanes and i'm just like oh this is making me dizzy i'm just i'm just loving this right but? But I wonder if they're going to be able to have the mentality defensively because, you know, I think they're going to score against anybody

in a playoff series. But defensively, if they're not taking it serious enough, that's where they're going to, you know, lose games. That game against Philly the other night where Philly just blows them out. They just straight up didn't compete on defense. Straight up and down, right? And a lot of times that happens to teams that think that they're offensively unstoppable. So that's what

I'm worried about with the Hawks. But as you can probably tell, Bill, I'm really excited about this team. Yeah, well, look, the East is Milwaukee, in my opinion, is the safe bet. They're the top team. They're the easiest pick. I have real concerns about Brooklyn.

I don't like the way Harden looks at all. I can't believe he's playing himself into shape. It's like, well, I just had the hammy injury. It's like, wasn't that in May? Go look at Houston pictures of him from five years ago. He looks like he has a bodysuit on. You're a fucking professional athlete. You make $35 million a year. Get cheap.

He's like, I'm playing myself a cheap. I feel better. It's like, that's why we have... We call it the preseason, James. So you have that. Kyrie's out. We don't know who... Not seen him all year. Blake Griffin looks washed. Yeah. Like, it looks like it might be done. Yeah.

Millsap's been washed for two, three years. Nice guy. But Denver couldn't put him out there when it actually mattered. And I don't know. I just think that team Durant's Durant shoot 58%, by the way, looks as good as he's ever looked and they're going to be fine because Harden will eventually get in shape. But I think the East has gotten better, and I don't think they're as scary as they were last year, especially without Kyrie. Yeah, you know what's so funny, why I got a little bit worried? It was from a

Harden quote, and from him saying, like, yeah, I would love to go out there and score 40, but, you know, and he's making excuses, where it's like, James Harden has never been somebody who acknowledges a deficiency in public. That's never been something that he's done.

So for him to say that, I'm like, man, maybe he's thinking in his head, like, I don't have it in me to break. It's like the Tony Soprano with Tony Soprano got beaten up by Bobby Bacala. Well, you know, I had the heart thing. I'm older. Exactly. Exactly. Like, you know, Bobby had the heart thing. I'm older. Exactly. Exactly. Like, you know, Bobby, let's face it. Like 10 years ago, you would have had a shot.

But like to hear Harden admit that, it makes me wonder like, man, is he going to be able to beat guys one-on-one? Because I think that's what drove the entire offense. Dude, he can't. He doesn't have the same. Now, will it come back? I don't know. But I watched that whole what drove the entire offense. Dude, he can't. He doesn't have the same. Now, will it come back? I don't know. But I watched that whole game on Friday night.

I was like stunned because he actually he put up decent stats. But the combo of taking the rule away that he lived on, I don't think he blows by people the same way. Especially when you're watching some of the other guys in the league like LaMelo, who just seem like they can go by anyone they want at any given time, which is what Harden used to be able to do. I haven't seen it the same way this year. And he's older, you know? He's 2008 draft. Or nine, I can't remember. If he's not getting

a step on guys and therefore making the defense react and, you know, basically puncturing the defense and creating these creases and passing lanes for, you know, him being one of the greatest passers we've ever seen, then he's just, he doesn't have the same effect, right? Like the concept of James Harden is that like, all right,

I can attack anybody you send to me one-on-one, whether that be by getting them in foul trouble or creating the space for a great shot or just getting, you know, to the rack for a great layup or whatever the case may be. And then through that, like I'm making the defense react to all of my movements from my first step, et cetera, et cetera, and I have that next level court vision that we said, you know, Tatum and Brown don't possess.

Again, that's predicated on beating the man in front of you, right? Like, and I think we're going to talk about the Lakers. I watched that Memphis game, and I was just like, Jesus, they're getting murdered at the point of attack. Like, did John Morant just, any time he wanted to get to a place, it didn't matter who was in front of him, he was getting there. He was getting, they were killing the Lakers at the point of attack. Like if Harden

can't beat defenders at the point of attack, this Brooklyn thing becomes way less overwhelming really quickly. And we'll see with Kyrie. Who knows? Yeah, who knows? But they're just, it just doesn't seem the same.

And I'm thinking a lot about Durant, like what a big bet he made with this Brooklyn situation. He loses year one because he's hurt. Year two, foot on the line, bad injuries. Now we're in year three. And I,

you would have thought at some point this would have at least felt a tiny bit like the 2017 Warriors. But the irony with this team is the only time it really felt that way was that one Boston series right before everybody got hurt. Remember? Yeah. When it was like, oh my God, this team can score 20 points in four minutes anytime it wants. What are we watching?

And then it was gone, and it's never come back. And then Kyrie got hurt because he gets hurt every single year, and Harden was dealing with the hammy, and now we're back into this. And again, know, Harden was dealing with the hammy. And now we're back into this. And, again, like what he said makes sense, right? It's like it's one of those injuries that rest is basically the answer.

I had an entire offseason of rest. Not that he wouldn't have been resting or leisurely going to fashion week in Paris or whatever without that. But, you know, he has an excuse that makes sense. We'll see if he regains his explosion or not. But it was telling to him, say, I want to go out and score 40. Like, that's not Harden's public posture ever. He's always supremely confident in his rhetoric anyway. To hear him just say, like, yeah, you know, I didn't have an offseason. I don't know.

That's tough. Hey, James, you know, I didn't have an offseason. I don't know. That's tough. Hey, James, you've played in five finals games in your career and you lost four of them and you got your ass kicked by LeBron in 2012. Maybe get in shape. Before we go, Lakers, Lakers just quick. I was never a total believer in the team. I went under for them. I felt like the West was open.

I wasn't sure who was going the team. I went under for them. I felt like the West was open. I wasn't sure who it was going to be. I'm still not. But that's a team that feels like there's more moves coming. So I don't want to pour dirt on, oh, it's not going to happen. I don't think there's any way this is the team they're going to have three months from now. I've said it before. I'm going to say it again. This feels very 2018 Cavaliers-ish to me.

For the team they started with in October, November versus the team they have in March, I think we'll look different. What do you think on that? Yeah, man, it's kind of startling to watch them for the first time in the Vogel era just not be good at all on defense. Last year was crazy.

With no path. It's not like, oh Malik Mok will get better. He's like 120 pounds. Ariza's not going to save you. Kendrick Nunn's not going to save you with their perimeter defense. Watch it just straight up not work.

Whereas last year AD went down and I think in the span of games that AD didn't play, they were the number one defense in the NBA in defensive efficiency. To watch it this year where it's just like, again, at the point of attack, perimeter defense, it's a problem, right? It's a problem. And, you know, Bazemore is whatever. He is what he is, and Monk is what he is.

But these guys, that's not the answer as a perimeter defender. And Westbrook, like, he just hasn't shown want to to be any good whatsoever at being of resistance. For five years. Right, exactly. It's been so long since he's shown any signs of that. It's crazy. But, you know, again, at the same time,

I watched the Cavs who are like, have shown themselves to be a pretty competent, plucky team. And, you know, down the stretch. LeBron big boyed them in that game. Yeah. It was impressive. Yeah, he's like, oh, Mobley, I'm hearing good things about you. I'm going to embarrass you in the fourth quarter.

Like at the end of the game, when LeBron's like, all right, let's put these guys away. No DJ, no Dwight in. It's AD at center. LeBron's like, let's just run pick and roll. Let's just keep doing that. This is one of the most impossible plays to defend in the NBA. And I'm like, how can I be worried about this team when they have these two dudes? I felt the same way.

You know what was great about that. Mobley, who is so gifted. I mean, Kyle man, I did a thing on Thursday about comparing him to KG and his instincts defensively. And then LeBron's big boy in them with,

with AD and they're running that pick and roll and mobile is doing the right things. He's just never seen the speed and strength that that play has been run with. So he's, he's jumping off seen the speed and strength that that play has been run with. So he's, he's jumping off at the right times. He's doing all the things that have probably worked for his entire basketball life. And it's like, no, no, that that's Anthony Davis. He's going to be two feet ahead of where you thought. And that's LeBron James. If he gets a half inch on you,

now he's going to put his shoulder and you're done. And it was, it was a really interesting learning experience. I would encourage people to go back and watch it on, if you have the NBA app, they're just, they kind of put them in the torture chamber and he wasn't necessarily doing the wrong things. It was just like,

Oh, wow. Okay. This is the pros to guard, right? Like it's like ad, like the way you have to defend it as the guy who's defending AD as a screener, if you know that he has the ability to pop or roll, that makes your sort of positioning a little bit weirder.

And then it's like, well, also, the guy with the ball in his hands is LeBron freaking James. So it's like all of these options you have to keep in your head at the same time. And then, of course, the help side defense is like, all right, do I suck in to help? And it's like, well, yeah, you could do that. But the greatest passer of all time is going to find an open three-point shooter. Wait, Larry Bird was in that game? Wait, Jokic is playing? Here we go.

Here we go. Here we go. Give me your deepest, darkest Zion thoughts right now. Listen, if I'm New Orleans, all of this kowtowing, panicking, all of this stuff that I was doing before, I got to stop. I need to stop. This team is nowhere close to contention. Bringing Zion back is not going to change their fortunes that much.

This dude is constantly hurt. He's constantly out of shape. Relax. We're the only people that can offer you 200 mil off the bat. God only knows when your next injury is going to happen. That could be as fatal and scary as possible. And that's not wishing anything on them, but it's like,

take a deep breath. Yeah. Please. Yeah. Don't rush Zion back. You're going to, you're going to be in the lottery and you'll probably be one of the six worst Zion back and stop making moves because it might help Zion win. Get guys that make sense next to him.

If not, help the team win. Just take a deep breath, New Orleans. That's all I would say to them because, like, oof, it's bad over there. The foot thing was ludicrous. We find out about the foot, what, three weeks before the season? They're like, it's a Jones fracture, but it's fine. He'll be ready opening day. It's like, what? I follow sports. A Jones fracture is not fine. Derrick Henry just got one. They weren't like, he'll be

good in three weeks. They're like, he might be back for the playoffs. We don't know. And the Pelicans are like, no, it'll be fine. Should be around opening day. It's like, all right, so he can't exercise with a broken foot. The foot's going to take a while. It's just, it's a shit show. It's a bummer. People need to settle down on the Zion versus Ja. Oh, people,

everyone was taking Zion first in that draft. No, come on. It was not an argument. Let's not recreate history. Nobody was ever thinking anything otherwise. It's a bummer, though. I like having healthy, good basketball players, and we're missing some this year.

On the other hand, there's been some fun additions. The rookie class is good. I like that Anthony Edwards is, although last night wasn't great, but I like that Anthony Edwards has blossomed a little bit. Me too. In year two, LaMelo, same thing. Of course.

There's some good ones. Yeah, Charlotte has been a surprise for me in the sense that i was like man it's still kind of a young team and like you're gonna be relying upon the lamello a lot like how good can they really truly be but they've been way feistier than i expected them to be to start the season. And LaMelo looks amazing. And, you know, the best thing is, like, his jump shot is real. Yeah, I like it. The versatility that he shoots it with is, like, I can come off screens, I can do it off the dribble, I can spot up.

I'm like, damn. Like, having that weapon with his playmaking and he's, like, showing flashes of finishing at the cup, which, you know, a guy who's as huge as he is, you would hope that he would become really good at it. That's fun. That's awesome. Well, we'll see.

Because Hayward has to play an entire season. Right. Let's see that happen. Tell you this. I'm going to leave you with this. Miles Bridges, a little Sean Marion-ish. Good Sean Marion or bad? Good Sean. Good bad? Good Sean.

Good mid-2000s. He's kind of moving to that territory for me where he's just this crazy athlete who's kind of figured out how to impact both ends and is really weirdly consistent. That was the piece. He was, to me, a feast or famine guy. And then second half of last year,

started to put some steps together. And now seems like a guy who might make an all-star team at some point. I did not expect this. Well, it's rare that we, and Sean Marion is pretty instructive of this, in that it's rare that we get these three combinations of motor, like crazy high motor, crazy athleticism with IQq yeah right like you combine those three it's rare that we see that combination of guys who just never stop playing hard are on you know in the top two percent of nba athletes and know where to be understand how to read offenses and defenses

you know it's it's cool like watching him drop, like, 25 over and over again, I'm like, whoa, like... I like how Hardy plays. Had that in him. It's cool to watch. I'm happy for Charlotte. Because for a while, it's just been, you know, a bunch of Cody Zellers and...

Yeah. You know, guys that were cool that they drafted that just didn't ultimately end up mattering. But to get, you know, LaMelo and Bridges and to watch it all come together the way it is, it's pretty cool. They also caught a massive break. Wiseman over LaMelo. Oh, man.

And I was in the Wiseman camp. I'll take the huge L on that one because LaMelo, man, tough one. That's the draft. The draft breaks your heart or it makes your decade you just never know all right was you're gonna be on ringer nba show this week right yes sir of course you can find me a group chat on the ringer nba show uh that's on all of our podcast feeds and networks and then of course check out the youtube show for fits every single friday last week we had had Ronnie Cycli on.

This week, we're talking to Donovan Mitchell. We talked to Kelly Oubre the other day. Yeah, check us out on Full Court Fits. I'm not invited

on Full Court Fits because I've been wearing jogging pants for like a year and a half. We'll figure out a way to incorporate your expertise somehow. Just by jogging pants expertise. All right, Waz. Great to see somehow. Just by Jogging Pits expertise.

All right, Waz, great to see you. All right, later, y'all. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend that powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days. And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express.

Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, Jake Paul is here. I have a lot of questions for you, but the amazing thing to me, I'm going to start here. You and your brother, you've kind of figured out this boxing thing. You've figured out how to juice a sport that, you know, when I was growing up in the seventies and eighties, there were big fights all the time. They were on all these different networks.

They really mattered. And now it's kind of faded away. It's harder and harder to have events. Did you stumble into this? Or is this something as you went along, you were like, holy shit, we're actually doing this? Yeah, no, I mean, it's just marketing at the end of the day. And you have to make people care or form an opinion or hate you or want to see you lose. And that's what I've sort of mastered. And we're entertainers at the end of the day. That's why I moved to Los Angeles was to become an entertainer. 17-year-old Jake, big eyes. I was like, I want to act.

I want to do YouTube. I want to blah, blah, blah. Boom. One thing led to another. Of course we lead, it goes to fighting. You know, if you're walking down the street, you see two people fighting. Everyone stops, pulls out their phones and watches it. It's one of the only things in the world that will draw everyone's attention right away. And so that's why I love it. And we've just found a way to make people care and we're good at it.

I'm 4-0, undefeated. And I've only been doing this now as a professional for less than two years and have had some of the biggest fights this year alone. So it just picking up steam and I'm training my ass off every single day, twice a day. And I love it. Was this one of those things you always thought you would be good at it or you were training because you want to do it once and you were like, wow, I'm actually good at this. Maybe I should pursue this. Yeah.

So I grew up and I was wrestling all the time and playing football. I did all sorts of sports. I was always athletic. And as a teenager, you would get into fights in school, whatever, you would do that game where you punch your friends in the bicep and you see like who can last the longest and i always last the longest people think wow you hit hard you hit hard yeah um but it wasn't until i was i think 21

when these youtubers uh called out my brother and i had fight. And we signed the contract. And literally the next day is my first day of boxing. You act like we didn't get that fight in the Simmons house because I have my son who now just turned 14. He was on it from the get-go. He was following all this stuff, all the feuds. And what was amazing to me is him and his friends, they all knew what was going on.

And I was like, what is, am I entering an alternate universe? Like they figured out a way to get 10 to 12 year olds to really care about fights, which is impossible. Yep. And that's,

and that's the beauty of it. And that's what I wanted to do. Now that the evolution of this was like, it started off as a one fight and then boom, we realized we just broke the record for the most amount of pay-per-view buys an amateur event ever and it was massive we were getting more views on the press conference than floyd mayweather mcgregor's press conferences so we were like okay there's clearly something here. And we love it.

And we just ran with the wind. I TKO'd my opponent and it was one of the greatest feelings I've ever had in my life. I just proved people wrong. Because there's always been a ton of hate against me. People pinning me down. I've had a target on my back. I've always been the villain role. And so boxing fits perfectly with that.

And there's nothing, no one can stop you but yourself. And I love that aspect of it is as hard as I work, I'm going to get that same exact amount out of the sport. Yeah, you and your bro coming up, you're basically you're 16, 17, as all this new technology is swinging your way, right? You, the Instagram is already in place. Twitter's in place. TikTok's coming. Facebook is probably peaked by 2016, 17, but you have all these devices. The phones are moving your direction. YouTube obviously is massive. And it feels like your generation was the first generation that just took advantage of

all these things. And at the same time, you're making mistakes in real time. This is the cancel culture stuff's really starting to kick in like 2017, 18 range. People are just getting mad constantly. And at some point it either seems like it breaks you or you kind of figure out, all right, where do I fit in in this whole thing? And one of the things that I thought was interesting about both you and your brother is you both had these moments, you worked through them

and you kind of figured out like, all right, I'm just kind of going to kind of own this. This is a rollercoaster ride. People might hate me one day. They might like me the next day, but I'm on the rollercoaster. I'm not getting off. Is that a fair way to put it? Yeah, 100%. And the audience is very fickle. One minute they love you, one minute they hate you. So you can't get too attached to the highs or lows. You just got to know who you are at the end of the day. And that's,

that's what was hard. You know, it was rough at first going through these canceled moments and being hated on. And, you know, I had no one to look to or talk to about this because it was the first time that kids this young were, you know, exposed on the internet for everything they've done and um or not done you know people make shit up all the time so it's like this fake stuff's happening this or what's going on and it's this crazy life and la is full of sharks and it was a lot it took it took a big toll on like my mental i developed like anxiety and like, was just scared all the time and living in fear. And it was a hard thing to go through, but it made me super, super strong. And I had to, over the years, figure out who I was

and truly love myself to the point where it doesn't matter what the Twitter people say, because it's not real. Or YouTube comments, all that stuff. Yeah, but you can see how it broke some people, right? Because I think it broke a lot of people over the last six, seven years. I mean, tons, dozens. And you hear some really bad stories,

some really sad stories. It's not easy, man. People always ask me, what do I have to do to be the next Jake Paul? I want to be like you. I'm like, no, you don't. You don't. The pressure that I put myself through and the things that I've endured, I'm a strong person. I was raised by my dad who was in the army, strict. We worked for everything we had i'm super strong thick skin and there was even points where i was like yo i'm good like i'm gonna go live in the

woods and get rid of all of this and and run away from it because that's where where it pushes you at some points and i feel like a lot of kids on TikTok or the new YouTubers, people who are becoming famous who have to go through some of that negativity or have some big controversy, they're traumatized for the rest of their lives from it. Right. Yeah. Just even watching my kids' relationship with the people they like on TikTok, on YouTube, they'll come and go in six months. It'll be somebody else. I remember my son when he was like, I don't know, fourth grade, maybe third grade, fourth grade, your brother was selling all the merchandise and he had like the, what was the Logan gang or

something? He had the Logan backpack. And then all of a sudden he was like, yeah, he's out. I'd like somebody else now. And it was like watching people break up with, you know, girlfriends when they're in high school or something, they would just move on from person to person that they liked. And I can imagine like when you're in the middle of that as an influencer and you're the hot thing for a second, and then it's somebody else. And it's like, well, wait a second. I'm still here. I have all these followers, but you feel like you're losing juice. You guys have always been able to kind of maintain the juice, which I think is pretty unique. Yeah, it's hard, man.

We've always reinvented ourselves and we're willing to adapt and change. And now we've gotten to a point where after however many years of doing this, six, seven years now, we're solidified,ified you know solidified uh whatever you want to call it we're solidified in the in the social media fame celebrity world but it took a while to get there and there were moments where we like fell off or people didn't care as much as they did anymore or they hated us for a second but but to me like I like that challenge that I was like motivating for me to like be all the way at the top no one messing with me I was getting 400 something million views a month on

YouTube for like a year straight and I was but it was me and my brother just running YouTube and then you see all these other people come in and yeah, we had to change, adapt and overcome. And a lot of those people who sort of took over, very few of them are around today. Yeah. You have to keep on changing in this landscape and in this environment.

You know, YouTube used to be the number one thing. Now the most viewed app is TikTok. Everyone's on TikTok. So I've grown off of social media. I made a decision two years ago. When I started full-time professional boxing, I was like, I'm done with YouTube. I'm done with doing social media. I'm going to focus on this and do this full-time because I love it. And there's no dead end in boxing. If I want to make $10 billion in boxing, I can. If I want to do that as a YouTuber or a TikToker, no one's done it.

No one's gotten even close to making, you know, 500 million. So for me, I saw that and I saw that you had to keep on posting. And it was a vicious and never-ending cycle. And the minute you stop posting, no one cares anymore. And there's a thousand other people right there behind you to keep on posting content. And so I made the decision, I'm done with this. I'm full-time boxing and best decision I ever made. And I've always had my finger on the pulse of what moves to make at the right time in my career. And it's paid off for sure. Well, the good news though, is you have like a war chest of followers on all these

different platforms that you can tap into whenever you need them. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, I still mess around with some content and obviously my content is now sort of based around the fight game. Yeah. But there was a period for six months where i wasn't posting basically anything i was like yo i need to learn how to become a professional fighter i was training non-stop even when i didn't have a fight plans uh and that that's really what no one saw because i knew that this skill of boxing will be something that can last me forever. You know, people still want to see Mike Tyson fight to this day. You know, people... Including me. I'm ready for it.

Exactly. So, you know, that's what I wanted to build. And I wanted to build equity in something other than content. And by the way, it wasn't ever really who I was. I feel so at home with this fight game. I feel like I can finally be myself. I think a lot of times on social media, I was playing a character. I was doing cringe things to get more views.

Like you said, it's like you have to wake up every day and make the most viral video. And so I was doing things that weren't authentic to who I was. And now I feel like I can fully be myself and I'm happy and I love what I'm doing. I would wake up some days and be like, man, I have to film a video today. This is going to be so annoying to try and piece this all together and make something entertaining.

And the fans can sense that when people are going through the motions with that stuff. Because I've heard my daughter mention that with certain people that she likes. She's like, I don't think they like doing it anymore. I think they're doing it just because it's kind of their job. But I can tell they don't care as much as they did. Yep. A hundred percent. Like they're an autopilot.

Yep. And, and authenticity is the key right now to, you know, our generation and the generations above people, just everything. It's the key to everything right now. People want authentic, the authentic version of

you or whoever you are. People can sniff out the bullshit now and no one wants it. Right. And people talking about issues they've had, problems they've had, stuff like that. In 2021, it's accepted and encouraged to talk about, yeah, this, that. What would you tell 17-year-old Jake knowing now you're seven years later, what advice would you give

17-year-old Jake knowing what's coming? I would say take longer to trust people and surround yourself with a lot smarter people than you and slow down. I think I made so many of the mistakes that I made because I was just trying to do everything and conquer the whole world literally in one year, which I mean, it was good and bad. I was very ambitious, but I think when you're young and you don't have,

you have any idea what you're doing, because I really didn't, you know, I came from a family where we lived in a bubble and my dad was a roofer. My mom was a nurse. They didn't know anything about business or Hollywood or anything. So I was super ambitious, which is great. But I think that could also shoot you in the foot when you're super ambitious, but then you have no idea what you're doing.

So you're going to make a lot of mistakes. I think you're going to learn from those mistakes, of course, but just slow down and there's time. Everyone should take their time and surround themselves with smart people. Yeah. Because once you hit that first stage, you have that first wave of people coming in like, hey man, let me do this. Let me do that. Let me be your manager. Let me whatever. Usually it takes a while to realize, oh, I should just get the best people.

Maybe I should have the best lawyer. Maybe I should have the best business person. Yep. It's hard because you want to put your friends on or your friend could be your manager or you want to start this business with your friend who also has no idea what they're doing because that's going to be more fun. Like, no.

Cut the friend shit out. There's very few friends in in this world actually and take take longer to trust people and uh everyone's everyone's gonna want to hunt you down and have some opportunity for you or yeah some stupid appearance or some stupid little job or gig or idea. Just trust your gut and your heart on people and what you're doing just in general. What's your biggest regret as a business decision? Was there ever like a Jake Paul liquor or Jake Paul, uh,

bar in Cleveland? What was your biggest business mistake? Man, Jake, Jake Paul, body cream. a bar in Cleveland. What was your biggest business mistake? Man. Jake, Jake, Paul body cream. I think, um, I think T just team 10. I don't know if you know about team 10, but I know it, but tell the listeners cause some people probably don't know. Yeah. So basically I was going to be like the Dr. Dre of the social media space. So I came in, I was famous on social media, whatever. I had a bunch of followers. And my

idea was, I'm going to sign a bunch of people underneath me and put them on, get them brand deals, grow their following, create content with them. And everything's going to be great. We're all going to live in a house. It's going to be like sort of like a reality show. And we're all going to be like best friends and boom, it's all going to blow up, which it did. But when you hand, you know, 18, 19, 20 year olds millions of dollars and millions of followers and put them in a house in Los Angeles where there's greedy people all over the world. And, you know, people in the

house start hooking up and causing trouble and doing stupid shit. It was just like a total nightmare. Right, because you're also, you're the most famous person. And if anybody else either does anything wrong or they end up, they screw up with, they're not showing up on time, doing whatever. It's on you ultimately. You're the one, you're the only one that's going to get blamed

for any sort of failure creatively. Yeah, so I was like the dad basically yeah and which didn't work because i was like their friends but you were like 22 right yeah i was like 20 i was like 19 or 20 so yeah it just didn't work because i like created rules and was like no drinking drinking, no smoking. No, everyone has to be up early. We have to create this much content every day. I was running it like a business. Yeah. And it worked.

We all blew up. But there was just so much resentment and hate. And then people on the team would start fighting. And then employees would start fighting. And it was just so much ego. And it was just so much ego and it was just like seriously and yet the idea got ripped off by multiple other people yeah right yep so that inspired uh this the whole like wave that we saw this past year on tiktok where there was was a bunch of creator houses. Yeah.

One of my employees, my former employees at Team 10, years later came and started the biggest TikTok house. But same exact thing. I did everything to try and make it work. I had counselors come to the house to talk to people. I had professional business people. I did fun activities. Bro, I did everything to try and make this company work and it just didn't. So that's what you saw with the TikTok houses as well. They all fell apart in even a shorter amount of time.

Well, I know they pissed off a lot of people in LA too. Because whoever the neighbors were for whatever those houses were, were furious. They were mad. Yeah. They drew the short straw

with the whole thing. Name me one thing you're better than your brother at and one thing that he's better than you at with all this stuff i mean just off top boxing and business are sort of my forte you know he hasn't like won a boxing match yet um he's a great Just, I've put in way more time and then I'm just in the trenches in venture capital. Um, and I've always been an entrepreneur, but he is way better at like creative and, you know, photos and videos and just creating in general. He's more of an artist.

I'm wowed by him sometimes with his artistic ability. We're sort of yin and yang in a weird way. What's the biggest fight you ever had with him? Was there ever a time when you guys didn't talk for a month? For sure. For sure.

For sure. It was over a girl. Oh no. And we were, we were pissed at each other. Yeah. We were pissed at each other for like a couple months, but yeah,

that was definitely a period where we, where we didn't talk. How old were you at that point? Again, same thing. We were young. Yeah. Like 20 and he was 22.

Like brothers being brothers with egos in Los Angeles. We were young and we, we learned from that and realized like our, our bond and friendship and brotherhood is way more important than any of this outside stuff. You know, at the end of the day, we've gotten so far. But, you know, being brothers is way more important and what makes us more happy. I thought that was the code of the brothers that no girl could get between two brothers. I can't believe it.

Nobody, obviously nobody told you guys. It's pretty. No one told us. No one told us. Otherwise everything would have been fine. But I guess, I guess we learned on our, on our own and now we could tell our kids. I mean, that's basically the plot of Scarface, even though they weren't actually brothers, but they were Tony and Manny and then the sister. And then all of a sudden, you know, that's, that's basically the plot of Scarface, even though they weren't actually brothers, but they were Tony and Manny and then the sister.

And then all of a sudden, you know, that's how it goes. So you're in LA for good because you're a Cleveland guy. No, so I moved to Puerto Rico earlier this year. Oh, I knew that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so just made the decision to leave California and specifically Los Angeles just because

I wanted to become the best possible boxer that I could be. And California just wasn't... Los Angeles wasn't the spot. There was too many friends, too many distractions. My next door neighbors were throwing a party every night and they were our friends.

It just wasn't the right environment to be around. And I sought for isolation. And that's why I found myself here in Puerto Rico and fell in love with it because I can fully train nonstop and focus on myself and become the best boxer here on this island where I'm totally locked in day in and day out. So what's your plan with boxing?

Because the criticism to this is like, well, when is he going to fight somebody? Well, what happens if he fights, you know, it's like these MMA guys and stuff. But what happens if he actually fought a real boxer, he'd get killed? What is your timeline for, do you even want to go down that road? Or is it just so lucrative the way it's going now? Because people want to see you. There's always some other name. And this could go on for the next few years and you're going to make a ton of money. How far does this go? No, yeah, look, I've always stepped into the unknown with my opponents. I've always challenged myself more and more each fight. And that's what I'm continuing to do now.

And yeah, the criticism was, you know, fight someone harder, fight someone harder. So I fought Tyron Woodley, five-time UFC champ. Cool, I beat him. By the way, you got tagged in that fight once and you took it. I was impressed. Like he did get you

one time and you kept coming. Look, it's boxing, right? And I've been hit way harder in sparring and it looked a lot worse than it was just because it knocked me off balance and then I fell under the ropes, but I was fine.

I take shots. I have a good chin and that's Tyron's hardest punch that he's famous for is that overhand right that knocked out. That's why he became UFC champion. So, look, it took it. No problem. Didn't even get knocked down. And we keep

fighting. I win the rest of the rounds. You know, here's the thing with Woodley in that fight. I've seen all your fights, by the way. I think there's a fear of getting knocked out by you with some of these guys where there's a fear of getting knocked out by you with some of these guys where there's a level of caution that he had that I could see where he's just,

you know, if, if he was really trying to win that fight, I, at some point he's got to trade bombs with you for like a minute, but I didn't think, I think he honestly didn't want to have what happened to Nate Robinson where you become a meme for the next week. So I felt like there was, he was a little bit, had the safety valve on. And that

was why you controlled the fight because you did it. You were going at him the whole time. And I didn't feel like he totally wanted to trade with you. No, for sure. And you know, that's partially what we implement into our game plan. People get gun shy from me because they feel my power instantly. And I can sit here and brag about myself, but the proof is in the pudding. My jab is like a right hand. And so as soon as I hit Tyron with that, he immediately was like, oh shit, I see it in their eyes. It's one of my favorite things when I'm going to fight someone, these tough guys, you know, as soon as I hit them, they're like, well, I've never been hit like that. And that's my, that's part of my secret sauce is I really truly have this talent of, of power, uh, and speed and timing. And it's God, it's God given. You can't really train it. You either have it or you don't. And so boom, as soon as I hit him in that early round, boom, right hand to the body. He's feeling that to

his body. And he's like, yo, I don't want to get hit in the head with that punch. So, yeah, he immediately, you know, is just gun-shy and doesn't want to trade back and forth. Yeah, but then he wanted a rematch. And it was like, dude, you just had eight rounds.

We've already seen this fight and you never really totally wanted to trade punches with this guy. So I don't want to pay for that again. Yep. And he just wants the payday. It's exactly that. But I win the fight.

My first time going past two rounds, great learning experience against a tough guy who came ready to fight, who was in shape. And the criticism was, okay, fight a real boxer. And that's what it sort of always has been. So boom, perfect. Tommy Fury, 7-0, undefeated fighter, same weight, same height, same reach.

Comes from a legendary bloodline. His brother's Tyson Fury, the heavyweight champion of the world. If that's not a real enough boxer, then I don't know what is. And so I've always stepped up to the occasion. And people have all of these things to say and criticisms., and criticisms, and they want me to do this, this and that. Guys, it's only been 18 months since I fought my first professional fight. And so just take it, everyone take a deep breath. Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna get harder and harder and harder opponents. But most fighters in my position are fighting four-round fights.

Tommy Fury is a perfect example. He's 7-0, but he's never fought more than a four-round fight. These fighters fight trash cans, tomato cans, to build and pad their record so it looks good on TV when they say they're undefeated and they got all these knockouts. That is not what I'm doing. Everyone's watched my fights since my first one, which is unheard of. Name Floyd Mayweather's first fight. Name Javante Davis's first fight. Name Mike Tyson's first fight. You can't do it. So people have been following my career and that's why there's so much criticism early on. And normally, I would take my time all the way up till 15 fights and then fight someone good. But I chose to fight a five-time champion in my fourth fight. And now I'm choosing to fight undefeated young prospect, you know, who's, who's supposed to beat the shit out of me on paper.

He's got an amateur career. He's been doing this his whole life. His brother's a champion. His whole family has a lineage of fighting. I'm stepping up to the occasion. I know I'm going to win. That's the funny thing about it. I think Sugar Ray Leonard was the last guy who people saw every one of his fights because he came out of the Olympics in

1976 and immediately was on CBS and everybody loved him from the Olympics. That was the last time everybody loved him from the Olympics. That was the last time. It's a good point. Like even Mike Tyson still had to go like 10 and 0, 11 and 0 before he went on people's radar. I'm throwing an idea at you. You've probably thought of it.

Why isn't there a celebrity, a celebrity, like a real celebrity championship belt that basically like, cause you kind of have the unofficial version of it now, right? Why doesn't it actually just exist? And everybody who's not an actual life. Now you have probably higher hopes than that. It sounds like you want to actually eventually at some point be a real professional boxer, like the whole thing, like you're going down that road, but why couldn't there be a celebrity champ where it's just like, all right, these famous people that got into the sport and that person is the champ. And that's, that's who you have to go through. He comes in with a belt. He's got the celebrity belt. Like I would actually, I, that would actually make sense to me. We'd have rankings.

I'd want to know where Lamar wrote him and see, like, is he in the top 10 yet? Is he still 19th? But could that ever happen? Because it does feel like it's not unrealistic. Yeah. I mean, the issue is a lot of things. It's like these celebrities sort of want to dabble. They see the limelight and the money that it makes. Yeah. And so they want to do like one fight, but once they get into the training and they realize how hard it is, you know, that's sort of where it gets cut off. Then they're good.

Yeah, exactly. And you know, there's a risk in losing, right? Like if they lose, they're going to look stupid and they have to go back to whatever career that they did before and everyone's going to make fun of them. So a lot of them aren't

willing to risk that. And then the biggest problem is these celebrities demand so much money because of their ego and they think they're worth so much money. So they'll demand 2 three four or five million dollars but then they only sell like 50 000 pay-per-views yeah which you know it doesn't it doesn't add up you know there's a whole lawsuit from these celebrities these little tiktokers who fought uh and i'm following that one i love that one that was that was the most obvious lawsuit that was ever going to happen. You could tell it was a disaster. We tried to download that app and it didn't even work. We had to watch it on a computer. It wouldn't work on the TV, whatever thing that was. It was an immediate disaster. Yeah. So, I mean, and I told the guy before he thought he

was going to sell 2 million pay-per-view buys. And I was like, you'll be lucky to sell 200,000. They ended up selling like a hundred thousand or somethingview buys. And I was like, you'll be lucky to sell 200,000. They ended up selling like 100,000 or something like that. And they promised all of these celebrities money. None of them got paid. It's like this whole disaster. So everyone has the bad taste in their mouth from that. And that's the thing is people don't realize how hard it is to actually sell pay-per-views just because you have followers doesn't mean that they're going to watch you fight. What I've done over the past two years is create a strategy to change my audience. And I've changed it from the digital YouTube audience to an actual sports fan base where they care about me as an athlete and are willing to put money down.

The 30-year-old male has $60, $70 to pay for a pay-per-view. These 16-year-old girls or 13-year-old girls who follow Bryce Hall on TikTok, they're not going to pay to watch his pay-per-view. And they probably don't even have the money to pay or they're technically savvy enough to where they're going to pirate the stream and they didn't do a good job of you know handling the piracy so all these kid geniuses now who can look up a million things in a minute just watch illegally on youtube YouTube or wherever it's streaming for free. Yeah. Or they have, in my case, my son just telling me to order it. But I don't think there was a lot of me because I actually stupidly ordered that one. But I don't think that was a giant audience of people paying for it. It seemed like a lot of people cut corners.

And then it didn't work on top of it. So you have this fight on December 18th. The other smart thing you did, you hooked up with Showtime. So you have the credibility, you know the technology is going to work, all that stuff. What does 2022 look like for you if you win this fight on the 18th?

Man, I think, genuinely, I think I'm going to take some time off. I said I was going gonna take some time off you know I said I was gonna take some time off after the Woodley fight but then I just felt good and wanted to keep going but I've just been going non-stop you know I haven't been on vacation since I moved

really to Los Angeles so it's been like seven years and I feel like I finally had a spot where I deserve that and just like spend some time So it's been like seven years and I feel like I finally had a spot where I deserve that. And just like spend some time chilling, to be honest. And then who knows, I might fight at the end of the year, you know, if there's an opponent. But I'm really behind on my business stuff. Just because when you're in training camp, it's hard to manage it all.

So I'm going to get back into the emails and the meetings and the long-term business building probably in 2022 and just take some time off and kick it. That sounds like the answer from somebody who sold a lot of pay-per-views with the last couple of fights. You've already moved into that Floyd Mayweather 40 fights in his career stage. This is the problem with a lot of these guys. Once they start making real money from the pay-per-views, all of a sudden they're fighting once, twice a year because that's what they have to do. We have a couple of things before you go. One, Browns, are you following or no? Do you have the DirecTV in Puerto Rico or you're out this season? Yeah, no. I'm following. I'm following

as much as I can. You have to have a VPN to watch it here in Puerto Rico. Oh, Jesus. The Browns are in trouble. Mayfield's got a ravaged left shoulder. It looks like they're in trouble. Beckham was trying to get traded this week. They didn't end up

trading him. But the good news, the Cavs, Mobley looks like a home run. So the Cavs might have another comeback in him because they got Evan Mobley with the second pick. Everybody loves him. So maybe that's going to be the team. Yeah.

I mean, I'm rooting for the Browns and the Cavs, obviously, but I'm more of a football fan. And it's been tough to watch everyone just get injured, like you said. Yeah. Just, man, everyone's dropping passes. There's drop passes all the time on these third downs. Something weird is going on in the league. I feel like there's a shift happening with the talent.

Even the Chiefs are having such a rough time. It's a weird year. There's no favorite in the AFC. In the NFC, one of the best teams has a 44-year-old quarterback. I don't know what to make of this. I forgot to ask you about LeBron. Do you guys have a relationship

with him, you and your brother? Is the Cleveland thing just... Is there a Cleveland celebrity circuit where you guys all have to be on the same text chain or do you not deal with him? There sort of is. It's a little bit weird.

Some people are cooler than others and I think it's not that big of a family but LeBron tweeted about my event when it happened. Uh,

but he, you know, never, never spoke to him really. Um, interesting. So little standoffish LeBron with the Paul brothers. I mean,

yeah, but like, I mean, it is what it is. Like, I don't, I don't take any offense to it. Like the guy is busy.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't expect don't take any offense to it like the guy is busy you know what I'm saying like I don't expect anything from anybody so if he never wants to talk to me then that's cool you know if I if I see a kid coming up from Cleveland doing big things and like I was at LeBron's game front row like cheering you know and some kid saying, I was at Jake Paul's boxing match growing up, I would probably reach out and say something, but people are different. I don't expect anything. I know

he's busy. It is what it is. I thought there was a whole Cleveland sports hierarchy. I thought you guys were all tight. Tell me about your foundation. Boxing bullies. Yeah. One of my, uh, one of my prize things that I, that I've been wanting to do since I was a kid, um, was create a foundation and finally was able to launch it this year. And really our mission is to get boxing gloves

and boxing out there to as many kids as possible to give them an alternative way to get rid of all their extra energy so that it doesn't go into bullying and so that they can build themselves and become confident. Because that's what boxing did for me is I found out who I was and what I was made of in boxing to the point where I didn't necessarily feel the need ever to ridicule other people or to be macho man

in public. You don't want that. And so we're just raising a voice against bullying because I used to bully when I was a kid. And it was because I wasn't confident. And I thought it was funny, blah, blah, blah. And so when I started to grow on social media, people in my school started to bully me and create fake accounts with nasty names about me. And that hurt me. So I was like, wow, this isn't cool.

And cyberbullying is such a big part of this generation where someone can make a fake Twitter and just go write something nasty. And those comments stick with you. Those things hurt. And so I haven't really seen anyone talk about this and how big of a problem it is. And I just want to use my voice,

my platform and everything I'm doing to, to raise awareness about it. Cool. What's the URL? Boxing. Yeah. Boxingbullies.com. B-U-L-L-I-E-S.

All right. Cool. All right. Good luck next month. Good luck with the fight. Thank you, Bill. I really appreciate it,

man. Thank you for having me. All right. Nice meeting you. Peace. All right. This podcast was produced by Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Big Waz. Thanks to Jake Paul. I will see you on Thursday with Million Dollar Picks and a very, very, very, very special guest. Plus a third guest if Atlanta wins the World Series. I promise, remember that he could come on and do a victory lap about his Braves. But who knows?

By the time you hear this, maybe they won the World Series, or maybe we'll go to a Game 7. We will see. Good luck, Rem. On the way so I never said I don't have feelings within On the way so I never said I don't have feelings within