The Bill Simmons Podcast - A Westbrook Debate, NBA Sleepers, Unbreakable Records, and LaMelo Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss NBA playoff seeding and Round 1 sleeper teams (2:45), Russell Westbrook tying Oscar Robertson’s record for the most triple-doubles in NBA history (26:00), All-NBA teams and a stats deep dive (47:00), the best “unbreakable” NBA records (1:07:00), burning NBA questions, and more (1:34:45). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We never stop here. We're always going to be innovating. We're always going to be coming up with new ideas. The Rewatchables is coming to Monday night. We did Lethal Weapon 2. It's available on the Showtime app right now if you have it and you want to watch it for free. But one of the most important action movies ever.

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since we launched it. So there you go. Coming up, Ryan Russo and I, it's time. We're starting our Sunday Night NBA podcast a week early. There's just too much going on. Little twist just for this week before we get into the playoffs. Russillo is going to host this, not me. So when we come back after Pearl Jam, Ryan Russillo will be driving this.

But first, Pearl Jam! try something a little different where i'm going to host Bill's pod on a Sunday. Massive prep, a lot of rundown stuff back and forth. We are taping at 7 Pacific time, so Lakers-Suns is just about to tip off, which has impact on seeding, which I think plays into where we want to start with this, even though Phoenix is 2-0 against the Lakers this year. The first game, no Anthony Davis. The second game, no Anthony Davis-LeBron. When I look at the seeding and kind of starting the conversation around what am I confident about, I'd like to be Carson Edwards checks into a basketball confident, but I'm more like Christopher Moltisanti gets in a car with Pauly confident.

That's kind of where I'm at right now, where I think there's things I know, but there's very little that I feel confident about. You love how Carson Edwards just goes into these garbage time Celtic games and carries himself like he's AI in 2001. I've never seen a guy with less an established NBA career be like, all right, it's go time. I think a lot of people have congratulated him for that one March Madness run he had on Purdue, and he's just kind of carrying it over. There's so much has happened, even since I did some playoff stuff on Thursday.

Basically now the Lakers are, it looks like they're going to be the seventh seed. It looks like we are now really headed for Lakers warriors. Like this is a thing that's going to happen in a playing game. And it looks like the Celtics are just seven. That's how it's going to play out. And they're playing the Charlotte team. And now Milwaukee, who's like, we're feeling great. This is awesome. We really got a lot of momentum. They have to deal with Miami, who I don't want to play in a playoff series. I'm sorry. I just don't.

That's the one that jumps out, right? Because we have over the years that we've done this, where you're like, okay, well, this team would play this team. And I'm like, ah, this feels a little early. With a week to go, when you start seeing how some of this could potentially line up, that's one of the headliners that jumps out at you, where we're all excited about Milwaukee again, although I still think it should be tempered a bit in the Nets games when there's no Harden. And the latest on Harden was a couple days ago.

He said he's definitely going to be back before the playoffs start. We're like, okay, any day now. So I like those wins. We can't get crazy about it with Harden. But if you're Milwaukee after what happened last year, I mean, you can say, hey, we're different. We've got Drew Holiday and all these different things. I feel like the Miami part of it, maybe they were so dominant

in moments against Boston today, and they controlled that game throughout, even with Boston making a run there. There's an idea that Miami's completely figured it out. If you look at their numbers, they're still kind of middle of the pack. They had bad losses recently. Right. So if they're healthy, great, and we know what they can look like. So I don't know. I don't know if that's exercising

the demons for the Bucs or if you're like, are you serious? We could play those guys again. I don't know the answer. So there's two teams that stand out, one in each conference, for the other team going, oh shit, are you serious?

We got to play these guys. Denver in the West having to play Dallas, I think is the other one because Luka's now in shape. Dallas, I went back, I really did research. I think both of us were just bored today. For me, it was Mother's Day.

I was still doing research. The record since the 20th game. So you throw out the first 20 games of the season. Okay, I like this. By the Mother's Day, I meant like you would have thought I was waiting on my wife hand and foot doing all this stuff. But I kind of did that yesterday because I knew I had to, you know, I had the pod today. But I kind of did that yesterday because I knew I had to, you know,

I had the pod today. So I flip mother's day a little bit. I thought I tied it up my garage a bit as if I were married. Oh, that was smart. Smart move. Um, so if you throw out the first 20 games and you just look at the records,

here's your top five in the, uh, in the East Philly's 33 and 15 Brooklyn's 32 and 16 Milwaukee's 31 and 16 Miami 30 and 18 next 33 and 15. Brooklyn's 32 and 16. Milwaukee's 31 and 16. Miami, 30 and 18. Knicks, 29 and 19. If you go to the West, Phoenix is 37 and 10, which is the best record in either conference. Utah, 35 and 13. Denver, 32 and 16. Dallas, 31 and 16. Clippers, 29 and 17. Dallas, I don't think anybody has even had an official conversation on because, you know,

there's been weird Porzingis stuff with them all year. They started at eight 13, but they've hit the point with me where I'm like, I'm not positive. They're better off with Porzingis. Like if you watch them, they actually can kind of play better when he's not clogging up the middle or,

you know, I, I just wouldn't want to play them in a series because of Luca. I just wouldn't. I feel like if it's four out of seven, he could have four really, really awesome games in a series and they could win three of them. And then you never know. So anyway, back to my point, like, I think Miami is the, is the scud missile team in the East. And I think, I think Dallas is the scud missile team in the West where you're like, shit, we got to play these these guys we just fought to get a top four seed now these

guys are here fuck yeah the dallas one is is worth bringing up here because when they get up to a bad start it's almost like they've been just written off the entire season the prasingas part of it i'm with you i think they would probably say that specific matchups what Porzingis can do by opening things up for people offensively, if there's another big that you don't want, like if it's a Rudy Gobert and they have to deal with him and Anthony Davis or something like that, where you're trying to pull him away a little bit, then he still, I would think, would be somebody that you would want.

But Dallas, if you go, because I sort it all different ways at times to try to figure stuff out, but if you go last 15 games, Dallas is eighth in net rating in the NBA. But when they're on the marquee game, depending on if they win, it's like Luka's amazing, which he's always amazing. But when they lose, it'll be, oh, it's a little too Luka dependent. And they throw everything at him. I mean, Carlisle, I think Weber asked him the question, he was like, hey, how's Luka handling the double teams? And Carlisle was like, well, you know, he's seen him by now, Chris.

And Carlisle was like being as nice as he possibly could be about it. Wait, you're saying C-Web asked a bad question? Not touching that one. Look, they're not sideline guys. Let's put it that way. Yeah, so the Dallas part is overlooked. And I feel like the Doncic criticism is at least something to think of when you're that predictable as an offense, even though their offensive numbers have been incredible now for two years. He's one of the four. They're 31 and 15 now in their last 46 games. They have to be taken seriously. And then on the flip side,

I really want to talk about Miami a little bit because I keep doing the All-NBA stuff every week now. Now we're a week away. I think this has been the hardest All-NBA thing probably that we've had to do with all the missed games. We've covered a lot of the reasons why it's so hard. But Zach, last week we were texting about it. He's like, I think I have Butler in there. I'm like, really? Where? How? And then he missed too many games and looked at it. And he's just basically been 22, seven and seven, um, with incredible efficiency. And he's one of the best perimeter.

He might be the best perimeter defender at that position other than Simmons and Teibel when he really wants to dial up. The stuff he was doing today against the Celtics was rip your heart out stuff, and he was just in control of that entire game. He took one shot in the first half, by the way, and five other guys had double figures in the first half.

But I still felt like he was controlling the game. Right. No, I'm with you. So when you're talking about all NBA, I'm starting to gravitate toward like, I just want to try to end up with the 15 best players if I possibly can. And Butler is one of the 10 best players in the league, best 10 to 12. LeBron, LeBron's in there, obviously. And LeBron, unfortunately, I think is going to be a third teamer just because he's just missed too many games at this point. Um, but the Butler piece and the fact that that

team's been there and we've seen this over and over again in the NBA playoffs, you see it in football playoffs too, where it's just like, well, that team, I just don't want to see them in January. It's a little like the bucks in football last year, right? Even though that was a new team, it was still, they had the pedigree with Brady and they just had a lot of talent. You're like, ah, fuck. I hope, hope we don't play those guys in January. I feel that way about Miami. If I'm Milwaukee, I just would have wanted to miss them. I would have wanted to see the Celtics. They would have killed the Celtics. And now they're going to have this really hard series followed by Brooklyn. And then if you win that one,

now you got to play Philly. That's a fucking gauntlet. They're not going to beat. They're not going to win three rounds in a row. I don't think with that, when that's the gauntlet, unless somebody gets hurt. Miami,

we probably focused on the wrong guys, you know, because we were like, we're going to take the next step. And then he has this kind of disaster start. He doesn't really get any shots. And by the way, he wasn't even part of the closing group today

against Boston because Boston cut it to 12. I think they got it under double digits there, too. And it never really felt that scary for Miami because they were the better team. And Bam is like the worst possible matchup for the Celtics. I mean, they had Robert Williams back. And it's that same stuff that was happening in the playoffs where it's like they run those curls.

They ran one out of a timeout where it's all this action where Bam's actually going to trail the play and then he's going to get the alley-oop and you know you have to find a way to like help but stay with him and when you don't stay with him or you're Tristan, it's lights out and their shooters people are just letting the shooters shoot

hoping they miss because here in Robinson have been you know a little iffier than they were in the playoffs and Bam still getting shot that's the big thing with them because like Dragic hasn't been great but but Butler has sneaky put together like the best season he's had and the efficiency stuff is right and then Bam has taken a jump where last year he was getting all the love and then they make the NBA finals and all that but he's even better this year. So even though I look at the last 15 and go, they're kind of middle-of-the-pack defensive, offensive efficiency, net rating, and that kind of stuff,

and as you said, they have some bad losses there. The nightmare is for Milwaukee, and as you mentioned their path, Philly, you can basically, if they get the one seed, you pencil them in. Pencil them into the Eastern Conference Finals, right? Because they'd be playing some combination of boston or charlotte all right or washington ironically washington's probably the scariest matchup for them do you realize that washington last 15 games they are fifth in net rating they're number five in offense and then you're like okay but they don't play any they're sixth in defense so and

they have two big guys to throw against Embiid as opposed to zero for the Celtics. Yeah, I mean, the Celtics part of this is, we already know it's over. I mean, I can do a minute or two on Marcus Smart's disastrous game again today. No, we'll do that later. It doesn't matter.

None of it matters. But the way you break this down for Philly, and if I were to add something I think that I know, is that I think Atlanta's more talented than the Knicks. Look, I believe the Hawks are more talented than the Knicks. I did this on Thursday. Atlanta has too much firepower for them.

I'm sorry, Knicks fans. You're going to lose that series. If you're Philly, Wizards, Charlotte, Boston, whatever. In Indiana, you don't want to play the Wizards out of those four. Is that really the answer? Your worst case scenario is the Wizards,

which, by the way, if the Wizards won both play-in games, they'd be the eighth seed. And they would play Philly. And if you're Philly, you're like, what the fuck? Now we got to go against Beal and Westbrook. And they have Lopez and Gafford. They got 12 fouls to throw at Embiid. It's not going to matter.

It's not going to matter. It's not going to matter. I'm just saying, that's not a 10 seed. No, but the Wizards had a disastrous start to the season. I think they were 3-15. They missed weeks of games. With a record, their last 48, they're 27-21. It's not terrible. You throw in 3 and 15 that's

the thing like with dallas dallas was 8 13 but was having the year from hell they had covid luca was out of shape uh powell got hurt kleber was hurt keep going and going and now they're kind of who are who they are washington westbrook whatever was wrong with him the first month of the season, they sorted that out. And then this Gafford injection they got is nuts. They just get this guy who gives them 20 to 25 minutes of above average center play. Who's better than anybody. The Celtics have. And then it's kind of like if any of their swings make a couple threes, they feel like they can hang with any team in the league.

They're never like behind by 20. They're always like in control of something. And then Westbrook, who I guess maybe after we take the first break, we can do our whole Westbrook thing. But like that dude fucking plays hard. Him and Beal, those guys,

if it's those two in a playoff series, they're going to think they're going to win. It's like the joke we always have about like, I can't believe, I can't believe the confidence of the, yeah, they're going to think they can beat Philly. They really will. Boston will not think they can beat Philly.

Yeah, the Westbrook topic, which we'll get to a little bit later, is still a delicate one. I mean, now these numbers are so absurd in what he's been doing. I mean, even the national broadcast is like, how come Westbrook isn't getting more MVP love? This will be an all-time record

for guys mentioned as somebody that should be MVP. Nothing will ever top this season. Rich Kleiman had a tweet. Shout out to Rich. He wondered why Kyrie wasn't getting consideration. That's where I thought we peaked. Well, maybe

because he left the team twice. That would be one of the reasons. Kyrie will not be on my MVP ballot. But yeah, you're right. There's 20 MVP candidates this year. Right. Every week or so, it's like, hey, you know what? And then we used to always do this on the talk show

where they'd be like, you know, you guys just don't talk about Iowa football enough. And we'd be like, what do you mean? You know, and it'd be like, well, granted, they went undefeated in the regular season that one year. But other years, you know, you can just pick any team, any conference.

We'd be like, how come you guys just don't you know texas a&m doesn't get enough credit and then we'd be like all right here's credit for texas a&m there you go we there you go we didn't we do this with utah like six weeks ago we had to do our week of utah podcast because they were crushing everybody and now it seems stupid pho Phoenix has a better record than them in the last 48 by two games. Yeah, look, they're a game and a half out. They're a game and a half out of Utah, but Utah not having Mitchell is going to be part of the reason why if they get caught, they get caught,

which is another good first-round deal here because Phoenix, if the Lakers take care of Golden State, which if they have LeBron and AD back, they should beat Golden State probably by a lot. You never know in one game with Steph Curry, but when you start sizing up matchups and all this stuff, the Lakers aren't going to lose that game if those guys can breathe and run.

That's a catastrophe for Golden State. It's almost like they could do load management with Steph for that game and just save him for the other playing game. Just say, yeah, Steph, sit this one out. We're going with Oubre and Wiggins. I see. You're going to play him only because...

No, I'm kidding. They're obviously going to play him. He had 24 points in the first quarter last night. The thing is, he could put up like 53 against them. Yeah, and still lose. Yeah, but who's going to defend him on the Lakers? He could score against all those guys. Yeah, yeah.

Look, they had Dort on him last night. It didn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter right now with Steph. So, I don't care who you have so if you're phoenix and that's why that you know the clippers saying today we're going for the three seed like we want to stay here okay because you'd want portland if you're in the first round more so than i think you'd want dallas i don't think that's any debate at all especially with the clippers wings having georgia kawaii healthy against portland's options defensively sign me up if i'm the cl especially with the Clippers' wings. Having Georgia quite healthy against Portland's options defensively, sign me

up if I'm the Clippers. And the Clippers, despite the in-and-out rotation, they had both guys back today and they lose to the Knicks. And it was a really impressive Randall game again. But the Clippers' offense, they have six guys, I think, over 40% from three, which has never happened before in an NBA season. I mean, it's just stupid what they keep doing.

I'm not buying. I'm not buying. Give me your Clippers stuff then. I'm just not buying it. So you think they'd lose to Dallas if it were the 3-6? No, I actually think Dallas would be a pretty good matchup for them. What about Portland? Portland's the worst matchup for Portland.

I mean, right? Portland's the one out of the top seven that I'd take the least seriously. Right? Yeah, I agree. It just doesn't seem like... There's just a lot of Carmelo. It just seems like you can get any shot you

want against them. Nurkic has never seemed healthy. When was the last time Nurkic was healthy? I can't even remember. I don't know, but I noticed with him, I go, why... You keep waiting for this guy to come back. You keep waiting for all this stuff. Look, I mean, the Zach Collins thing is even more of a joke.

And I like what Norman Powell gives him, but it was clear they were just like, look, Powell's an offensive upgrade, even if it's a rental over Trent. And we're just going to try to guard you to death with offense and hope it works. Because it's really not anything else they do. I think they would regret that trade would be my guess. Right? Powell's a better player than Trent. I know, but they're going to lose Powell. He's not going to be on that team next year.

Or if he's on that team, they're going to have to overpay him. Not with the cap space that's out there. There's probably going to be a number where they go. Yeah, they're going to let him go. It'll be like a Bogdanovich thing. Yeah, I think the Dallas thing is so interesting to me because I hadn't even really thought of them until today. That's funny. That's your squad too. No. Yeah. It was

just, I just kind of given up because of the Porzingis thing. Cause you just think like, well, if they can't get this right and he's just never really going to be healthy, I'm not going to bank on them to win three playoff rounds. But now you look at it and it's like, what team do you feel good about? You know, like even the Lakers who I would still bet my life on to win the West if I had to. The LeBron thing, like, so he's still missing games and now we're a week away and they, I just find it hard to believe that they were like, no, it's cool. We'll play in the playing game. Like nobody wants to be in the playing game. You just never know. You know? So, I don't feel great

about that team. I haven't, haven't, the fact that in their last 47, they're 23 and 24. Now, granted, LeBron's missed a bunch of those,

but still, that's two-thirds of the season. They're under 500. You know? And I think those role guys that you kind of like, and it's like, here's 17 million for Kuzma,

and he's getting better on defense, but he's still a role player. Schroeder's still a really good role player. Unless that LeBron and Davis, unless those two pieces, they're running on all cylinders. That team seems beatable to me. I go back to what I told you three weeks ago.

Phoenix is the perfect round to catch him if they have to play him. Play him in round one. I don't want to see them in round three when everybody's healthy and they're running on all cylinders. I want to catch them early when they're still kind of trying to figure out who they are and what they're doing. Because it's been the second longest active drought now in the NBA behind Sacramento is at 14 years and Phoenix is at 10 years that they would be like, cool, two seven Lakers. Fuck. Well And you'd obviously want to play Portland.

I'm just saying they're going to have to go through the Lakers at some point. I would rather catch them earlier than late. I'd rather somebody else try to catch them than me that I just don't think size wise. I match up with them as well. And who knows? Like they may end up, it'll be a weird deal because people, if that ends up being the two seven and people are going to say like, oh, look at this though. Phoenix won the season series three zip. You're like of that is relevant and almost no result is relevant here

were the lakers but the difference with the lakers and nets is i don't know why i'm supposed to be to continue to give the benefit of the doubt to brooklyn where i understand everybody giving the benefit of the doubt to the lakers like i don't want to write them off at all i can't i just can't i mean i'd have to and the only thing that I think is a little weird, remember how we were talking about LeBron saying I'm never going to be 100% again? Do you think maybe he knew he was just screwed for the rest of this year? Just a theory. Working theory. Those high sprained ankles are brutal. And they always say it's like four to six weeks, but it always seems like it lingers for more than that. And you talk about Brooklyn.

I know you watch Denver Brooklyn on Saturday night. I cannot believe how involved Blake is on that team. He was guarding Jokic all the crunch time. By the way, doing a good job. But I don't have any confidence that that guy can make it through the next 10 weeks. He's had eight surgeries. The whole reason he became available as a buyout guy, because his body was breaking down. So they, the, he went from being like this luxury, like,

oh, cool. It'll be a Blake Griffin on our team. We'll see if he can rejuvenate our, his career a little bit. And he can come off the bench for us to like, he's like legitimately important for them. And to me, that is very dangerous because I don't feel like you can count on him health wise I hate to be a party pooper but I just think that's the amount that they're relying on him in these games is kind of shocking to me offensively I can't believe

anytime he goes to the basket or is posting up that anyone doubles him yeah I don't the doubling in this league will never happen quickly on doubles soon. Yeah. I don't, the doubling in this league will never happen. Yeah. Quickly,

Suns-Lakers, I don't know if you know this, but Chris Paul and LeBron are friends. That's going to probably come up. Is that new? Yeah. Was that a doc? I just found out.

I just found out. They're good friends. Who never should have played together, despite the rumors that they were always going to end up together. That would be one of the worst pairings. It would be one of the worst basketball pairings where you would go. Now, they're both smart enough that I guess there's an element where they could kind of figure it out.

But over the long haul of like three seasons, they'd just be so redundant. Well, that's why I did Bullet Dodge with Chris Paul in 2011, right? If he goes to play with Kobe, I still feel like that would have been a catastrophe. That would have been worse because I think Paul can understand playing off the ball

with somebody like LeBron where he would respect LeBron's playmaking, where off of Kobe he'd be like, cool, I've got the best seat in the house to watch this. I'm just going to watch. What?

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Westbrook's on fire. The triple-double record ties Oscar Robertson. NBA TV, it was crazy. Isaiah Thomas said, just thank you so much for letting me be here and be a part of history. It also speaks to how much we've evolved from numbers where I want to touch on this too within a few minutes, like which numbers actually would still make you excited. Because growing up, we knew them all. We had to memorize.

They all mattered to us. And now I think rarely do any numbers matter. And he's put up this insane run. I know I always have my problems with him because of some other things we'll get to, but he's a very complicated guy for me to talk with other people about. I guess I would set it up because I don't want to be negative about what he did because what he did is insane. So that part is insane. I'm with you. But I guess there's always a deal where, again, I'm already too negative. I'm a minute into this and I'm too negative. So I just want you to take over from me because I don't know that you love him a ton either,

but I feel like I'm ruining the moment. I'm now a little more glass half full on Westbrook than I used to be. Okay. I think he's been unbelievably entertaining this year for better and worse. He's a guy who, I remember, man, it was 2012 playoffs. And I wrote that piece about him being the 90, the ultimate 90, 10 guy where it's like every NBA player has 90% stuff you love. And then there's 10%. And for some people it's not that glaring. And then for other people, it's just like banging you over the head with a baseball bat. And his 10% has always

been the most glaring of anyone. And you see it just on display all the time in these games where I say it on my pot on Thursday, you know, he's the, he, he looks like one of the best 10, 40 first 46 minutes of the game players in the league. And then the last two minutes, he's probably one of the worst. It just makes terrible decisions. He's sometimes just a train wreck. And then he can lose a game, win it, lose it and win it all in the span of four plays. You never know what's going on. It's been so fun to experience it through house.

Because I've never really been good friends with somebody who's had to root for this. And house is like, it's like he's in the labor delivery room after his wife gave, had an 18 hour childbirth after every Wizards game. This is like, it's like he's in the labor delivery room after his wife had an 18-hour childbirth after every Wizards game. This is like just the Westbrook experience. The game Thursday, he was all over the map and then for some reason, intentionally fouled with a lead to get a six foul. Saturday, he takes a terrible shot,

gets fouled to win the game, makes both free throws, which I knew he would because he's weirdly clutch, and then got the key block to end the game in overtime and it's like he's just all over the place in so many different ways and you never forget he's out there and it goes back to what you the joke you had about carson edwards like he really thinks he's the best player in the league he really does he doesn't think anyone's better than him no no with him it's not an act either you know how like when quarterbacks are like, hey, are you one of the best quarterbacks in the league?

Remember when RG3 said it? He's like, yeah, I'm the best quarterback in the league. And guys are like, take it easy. But at the same time, like again, I get why he answered it that way. RG3 didn't believe it. And I'm not knocking him for answering it that way. But Westbrook, you're right.

There's no lie. There's no lie there. He's not lying to himself. I think he's lying to himself, but he doesn't believe it's a lie. There's some Stockholm syndrome shit that goes on with his teammates because we saw it in OKC too, but the Wizards love this guy. And they really, he's their guy. And it's weird because Beal is second in scoring and had 50 points the other night. He fouled out. Westbrook's like, I got this. And he actually got it, you know? And I, I'm, I'm kind of coming around because he's so intense. He gives such a shit every game, game after game, after game compared to all this load management stuff and

all these people that just sit out because they didn't want to play three and four nights or all the stuff Kyrie does. And this is the one guy who like really gives a shit. He's just got a lot of flaws. But I do think when he's on your team, it's almost impossible to go below 500. He cares too much. The teammate thing is real. I would say maybe the higher end guys got sick of it after a little while.

You know, like when people say like, well, look what Paul George did. He almost won an MVP with him. Yeah, and he left. And he left. All right, he forced his way out. Durant wanted out of there. The Oladipo thing was different. And then Harden after a year was like, I'm good. So I do think that matters. But I'll always hear stories about when you're away from the court, this guy's the man. He takes care of the least important guy on the team. And he doesn't do it. Whenever I would hear stories about, yeah, Barry Bonds goes out to dinner with

like the rookies and I'd be like, huh, that's, that's weird. It's like if a famous person is at some deal and he starts talking to you for two hours and you realize like, wait, no one likes this guy. And now he's stuck with me. I thought it was cool like an hour ago. And now I realize, and when I hear those stories about bonds, I go, well, that's because none of the other teammates wanted to do that stuff with Westbrook. That's not the case. Like he actually genuinely cares, takes care of the rookies, gets them hooked up with clothes, takes them out to dinner, all that kind of stuff.

So I think that's why so many people defend him so much. But for me, he'll always feel a little bit like a perimeter to Marcus Cousins, but not as bad. I mean, DeMarcus didn't have anyone in Sacramento, and yet Westbrook's played with some of the best players as teammates, and other than the finals run when they were all really young, which I don't think really counts, because it's not like Westbrook was one of the main I mean, he kind of was one of the main guys, but he wasn't really, and they ran the offense too hard in any way, especially

in late-game situations or getting the ball to KD, that I just don't really trust him at the end of games. He scares the shit out of me, and that's the stuff that I can't ever really get past. I mean, in this week alone, in the Milwaukee game, was it the Milwaukee game, where he helped towards the middle because I think he wanted a rebound.

No, it was the Toronto game. No, I'm not getting it. The Toronto game, he left the end lead open. Remember that one? Yeah, this is the timeline of the week. And these are just the little things, and people, I guess, either don one? Yeah, this is the timeline of the week. And these are just the little things. And people, I guess, either don't see it or I'm the dick for pointing it out because this guy's in a triple-double tear.

But I'm just giving my overall Westbrook thing. So there's a late-game situation where he has to stay on the perimeter player. He has to. And he just doesn't. He doesn't want to. There's three guys at Brook Lopez at the rim. He leaves this guy. It's a wide-open three. He's not 15 feet from him. And you're going like, were you just trying to get the reap? Because there's no reason to even help there.

You wouldn't double Brook. Never mind. Bring a third person over the Raptors game. The last 38 seconds of that game is one of the worst endings of a game where no one knew what they were doing. Everybody was making mistakes. And he went to get a charge right in left hand fleet. And that was three. They end up winning that game.

And again, it's the Pacers. He lost in regulation because he knew he was going ISO. He took three other shots towards the end after Bertans had a miss on his second attempt. So he was like, fuck this. Nobody else is getting the basketball. And then he got fouled on that double-team step back. And then he hit the free throws and he gets the block.

So I guess it's almost like if I had a root for him, I could enjoy so much of it and all the effort and caring in an era where it seems like so few guys care. I've always given him credit for that stuff. But I guess I'm just thinking coming down the court, shot clock off, tie playoff game or down one, I don't expect it to go well. Even though I know some of his clutch numbers this year say he's incredible, I think those defensive rotation things that no one ever seems to ever want to talk about and point out, there's a reason why those happen all the time. And if I were a coach, I'd go, I don't know that I can ever fix this.

His feel for the game, especially in late situations, is just way off sometimes. He could be playing with Beal. Beal could make 10 straight shots in the playing game, right? And they could be up to with a minute left and get a big rebound. And then Westbrook would do ISO pull-up

20-footer with Beal having flames coming out of his ass. It's like he has no context of where it's going, but, but this is where I go glass half full on him. Like he's completely salvaged a franchise that seemed like it was rock bottom, right? They're going to trade Beal five months ago. They were going to basically do the drew holiday package and he didn't want to leave. He could have pushed it. He didn't. And now Westbrook is there. And I don't know.

They're one of the seven best teams in the East. They, I think are a tough out. And I just look at him historically. And I do think, you know, Zach had the point when we did book of basketball, that Carl Malone and James Harden are kind of linked for their errors,

right? That, that, that the stats and the durability and some of the stuff each of them did over time is going to look amazing. But we were there and we saw what happened in the playoffs. I don't really know what the Westbrook doppelganger is because you look at his stats, his last five years, he's 26, 10, and 10.

This is his five-year average, 26, 10, and 10. This year, he's 26, 10, and 10. This is his five-year average. 26, 10, and 10. This year, he's 22, 12, and 12. He also averages 4.9 turnovers a game. So every game, he's going to just turn the ball over five times to the other team. There's just a lot going on. He's a 31% three-point shooter. He's never been a good three-point shooter ever. It's actually getting worse, but he still takes them. He's only 65% as a free throw shooter, but that

Saturday night when they're down one and he's at the line with a second left, I thought both of them were going in. It's just all of these contradictions as you're watching. And it's really hard not to admire him. Cause I forgot this. He was in the 2008 draft. Think about that draft. OJ Mayo was in that draft. Was that Hashim Thabit? Yeah. No.

It was Hashim Thabit 2009. I can't remember. Kevin Love was in that draft. Derek Rose was in that draft. Serge Ibaka was in that draft. These guys are all like on the other side of the mountain And Westbrook is still Putting up at least stats That resemble stats that he was Putting up at his peak

Wait the Rose draft is the Is the Beasley draft So the beat Was the next year yeah so Michael Beasley Was in Westbrook's draft And you go on down the line George Hill was in Westbrook's draft My point is the guys from that draft are old in Westbrook's draft. And you go on down the line, George Hill was in Westbrook's draft. Like my point is the guys from that draft are old

and Westbrook is still, I don't know, one of the top 25 most impactful guys in the league. Whether you'd want him on your team if you're trying to win the title, my answer would be no. But two more great Westbrook stats for you. Yeah. This year he's going to cement,

he is our four-time turnover leader for a season. So, a four-pack for him. Four times he's led the league in turnovers. He is first out of all active players in usage rate over everybody else. He's the highest usage rate

in the league for a career. Well, 16-17, the first triple-double year, when you go back and look at that usage rate in the league for a career? Well, 16-17, the first triple-double year, when you go back and look at that usage rate, it's uncharted territory. I mean, no one's ever done it. So, you know, what I think is, I could really nerd out here, so pull the plug on this at some point,

because I went through and looked at Oscar Robertson's years. And, you know, we grew up with this huge lie before the internet that Oscar Roberts robertson averaged triple double for his career and you were like now it's five years no that's what everybody said yeah everybody said it and it actually wasn't true um and if you really overrated it i felt like a dick when i broke this down in my book because i was like i felt like i was peeing on one of the sacred records but the reality is there was 140 shots a game every pretty much everybody was getting eight

to ten rebounds so oscars rookie year 60 61 teams average 109 attempts per game and most of them missed and that's an all-time high for any NBA season. That's the peak. So his first four seasons, he averages triple-double if you round up on 9.7 or whatever. Because that's how it actually worked. If you want to be really technical about it, it's one year. But they rounded it up. So the four-year averages on shot attempts per team was 109 108 101 and 99 which is crazy that in three years you'd lose 10 shots per game um that's that's unheard of if you look at the totals now it's between 88 and 89 shot attempts per team the last four years and that's actually high compared to

where we were in like the right we're heading up again yeah um i mean the offensive efficiency number for this year on its own is 112.3 which is almost two points per 100 per session higher than the other all-time high so right now we're in the all-time high offensive efficiency so that's actually one one big rule change that helped i think those field goal attempts is the 14 second offensive rebound thing. Yeah, because I think that probably added five shots for each team per game. And I would say no idea if I'm right, but I'm just yeah. I also think everybody thinking every two for one shot is a good shot when I would love to track how bad those are.

You know, that's just like nobody's figured it out. There's no guys. you know that's just like nobody's figured it out there's like two guys i would love to know what those are because the efficiency on the i got 30 seconds here and then i also love when the guy takes it with like 28 seconds thinking like cool we'll still have some time to work with and you're like you just took a horrible shot and you're still probably not getting the ball back all right so the shot attempts alone mean one very specific thing for roon in a pro Westbrook argument is the rebounding availability back then was absurd. The rebounding numbers are nuts.

Yeah. I mean, teams were averaging between 66 and 73 rebounds a game. Didn't Russell had 55 that year, I think, or the year before 55 in a game? Well, the Russell playoff rebound numbers are so are so dumb that I mean, you don't even know what to do with them. And the rebounding numbers now are so much lower, which is a huge credit to Westbrook. But another thing that you look at, if you look at makes and maybe I'll do this in a much nerdier fashion, my podcast, because I'm already starting to get sick of doing this. We give out more assists now this. We give out more assists

now. We just give out more assists. So even though there are more shots and people made less, they still made more than they make today because it was just such an absurd amount of shot attempts back then. But the assist numbers, we're giving out more assists

per game, per team in the last four years now on like 15 to 20 shots less a game. Yeah, because anytime you pass to somebody who eventually takes a three, it counts as an assist now. I remember when I was researching this for my book, Heinzen said this in the late, andoozie said it too in the late 50s 60s it was only an assist if it directly led to like a layup right that was it and they had more layups back then because the whole goal was to try to get layups every time basically but you would just come down the court like when you watch old games yeah you just came down the court you shot like that's just what you did I Yes. It was more like hockey.

Yeah, it really was. You pepper the goalie, basically. There's an argument to be made here that's pro-Westbrook on that. The rebounding part, there's less rebounds now. He historically is a much better rebounding guard than even we realized with probably Robertson.

He's fifth in rebounding right now. He's fifth in the league. Pretty impressive. I've, he's fifth in rebounding right now. He's fifth in the league. That's pretty impressive. But I've looked at home, road. I did a big research thing on this with our guys when I was still at ESPN. I said, you know, I'm at home, and I'll look at a box score after I watch a game,

being like, what the hell is going on with the home scoring? Like, there's a year with Westbrook where he averaged two more assists per game at home than he did on the road. Two. The famous one for that was Stockton. Totally. There was a home road disparity with Stockton that I think was like at least, it was at

least a four assist difference. It was like three and a half, four assists higher at home than it was on the road. I mean, two is a big number. That's like ridiculous. But I went back and watched all 24 assists that he had this week in a game or two weeks ago and i looked at them they're all legit there's two board but for today they're not even borderline so yeah i just thought that was kind of interesting to put it all in perspective that the rebounding availability back then because everybody's just chucking shots but we're actually giving out as many as many as many assists even though

the shot attempts are way down and even the makes are down compared to that. Yeah, the rebound assist numbers for him, I think, are legit. I'm actually surprised he doesn't score more points because he's 22 a game, but he's taking 19 shots a game. Well, because he doesn't, I mean, his numbers just aren't, there's not that many places on the court where you go, I want him shooting from this spot other than driving on everybody when he decides he's going to finish and no one can do anything with him. He's basically missing 70% of his threes and 35% of his free throws. So he really could be at 25, 12 and 12. He was doing a little bit better.

But I was thinking that trade was kind of brilliant for them. And it was kind of brilliant for Houston, too. We mocked that trade. That trade was sitting there for, I don't know, two months. We were talking about Waffle Westbrook. Oh my God. The two untradeable guys being traded for each other. Look what it did for both teams.

For Washington, it allowed them to keep Beal. It got their fans kind of excited. Like Joe House, who's actually like really excited for the playing games and now thinking like, well, we get Gafford, get Hachimura. We'll get one more free agent.

We could get Bertans maybe going a little bit more. Maybe we can be a top five team in the East. And then Houston, they're not able to tank of Westbrook's on the team. Cause he would be doing what he's doing right now in Houston. He would be going, he'd be 30, 15 and 14 every night trying to keep them from tanking.

So now they're the number one tanking team. So in a weird way, that was like the perfect trade. And Washington gave up a first round pick that was protected anyway. What do they care? Um, I don't know. I liked it. Who knew? One last positive Westbrook thing on it too, is that everything you just said is exactly why teams would talk about it.

Because if you were stale as a franchise, even though you knew how you played as a team was going to be held hostage to his approach, which tight spot, big game, I don't love. But he rejuvenates your stale franchise in a way that not really many other available players would be able to do. Tell you this, you're not going to believe where I'm about to go. You could argue the Celtics might have been better off. I knew. I can tell. The tone in your voice as soon as you're going back to the Celtics is the most predictable thing. If they had just offered Kemba for Westbrook straight up, Houston says yes. They do.

Yeah. I would agree. If the Celtics had Westbrook all year, I made Grandy look this up today. Guess how many times they've been down by 20 points this season? It's a huge number. I know it's massive. So last year it was four. Guess how many times they've been down by 20 points this season? It's a huge number. I know it's massive.

So last year it was four. This year it's 13. There's been 13 games out of how many we had? 68 that they've been behind by 20 points. Think about that. They're a 500 team. It's not like they're Orlando. I think they've been down by at least 10 points in like 37 of the 68 games, something like that. It's over 50%.

13 games down by 20 plus. This is a team that has Tatum and Brown who have been pretty healthy all year, save for like, you know, little seven, eight day stints. Anyway, my point is if Westbrook was on the Celtics, I don't think that number would be 13. I'm not saying I would want them on the Celtics. I probably would have had a heart attack if they did that trade. But the point is the point. Coming up next,

earthquake insurance. Do you need it? Last week, we were going to share a bunch of ridiculous stats with each other and I think you just threw a few out. So I had one left over. Do you know who is eighth in PER right now in the NBA? It's not Robert Williams, is it?

Yeah. How did you know that? Because he was like fifth a week ago. He's been terrible the last couple months. I have some with and without stats. Okay. So, you know, the Heat were 6-12 without Jimmy Butler. Clippers were 11-7 without Kawhi.

This is this year. Philly was 9-10 without Kawhi. This is this year. Philly was 9-10 without Embiid. LeBron, the Lakers, are 9-15 when he doesn't play. Not counting tonight. Golden State, 1-7 without Curry. MVP then.

When Curry plays, that piece of crap Warriors team is 34-26 in the West. Think about that fucking shit. Change my vote. I bring this up because Utah is by the way, the LeBron LeBron. I don't know what you can do with that LeBron number because

Anthony Davis is out too. Right. I'm just listen. These are these all have to have some sort of context. Utah without Mitchell is 10 and four. And I bring this up for the all NBA case because I had Mitchell penciled into my third team. And the more I look at it, I'm like, eh, I don't know if he's one of the best 15 players

in the league. And I think it means something that it doesn't seem to matter if he's in their lineup or not. The reason I bring this up, there is an insane amount of pressure. And now I don't feel the pressure because I take this seriously. And if somebody gets mad at whatever my vote is, I know like, I really do care about this stuff. I'm going to pick my best teams. But the amount of money that

is at stake with this all NBA stuff is kind of ridiculous. I read this weekend Tatum. It's worth $33 million to him if he makes it all NBA team. So I'm sure there's some voters out there thinking like, you know, they just fill out their ballot, they move on. I mean, Zach and a couple other people probably spend way too much time on it, but you know, Tatum is not on my ballot and he's, he didn't make it. And Mitchell's another one who can get a huge bonus bump from all NBA. And the more I look at it, the more I'm not sure he's on my ballot. He's going to end up missing, I don't know, 16, 17 games. And there's just guys that like more, like, I think Beal has to be on an all NBA ballot. If

that team, if that team, uh, gets close to 500 with how crappy that team is, all the stuff he's done. It's just like, you can't tell me if you switch Beal and Mitchell that Utah wouldn't either be the same or slightly better. So anyway, the reason I wanted to bring this up, and I want to get to the dumb stats in a second, but I just think it's weird that they tied this all-NBA stuff to salaries and the way that they did. And it's like 110 people with votes, something like that.

I don't know how many of them are taking it seriously. I know I am. I'm sure there are others. I'm not saying it's just me and Zach. But there's also people that might look at this and just be like,

oh, Donovan Mitchell, Utah's good. And I think this year is way more complicated than that. And I don't think Mitchell is one of the best 15 guys. So he's off my belt. Utah's depth, I think, makes that a little misleading,

even though we've had our moments with Mitchell this year. I just think that their depth or depth of scoring, and they're still anchored by a really great defensive player that they're able to get through it without Mitchell, but Mitchell's going to be the kind of shock crater that you're going to need at the end of a playoff game. Who's far more important than any of those other guys. He just is.

So I know I already did it look i already went through all of mine and i i ended up not having them on it yeah okay i didn't i know i like i think i went back and forth back and forth so now i don't remember exactly what i said but i have my notes in front of me here and i have like a line through them after we got done talking about it so right now i have and this is a week left and this is not final ballot by any mean, and I'm sure it's going to change. I have Yoka Giannis, Luka forward, Curry and CP3 as my first team. And I like it because I think those are the, those have been the most important five guys in the league. Say that again. Yoka Giannis, Luka, Curry, CP3. Those have been the five most

important guys this season other than Embiid and Randall. And I'm just not putting Embiid and Jokic on first team together. I think that's a garbage rule that those guys are not eligible forward. That's ridiculous. Right. But I don't understand how you think that's okay. But Doncic is a forward. Because I think he does play forward. I think him and Butler, I think Tatum's like this. I think Paul George is like this. I think there's guys that they float between the positions

where it's kind of amorphous. Jokic is a center and Embiid's a center and Gobert's a center and Bam Adebayo's a center. Like there's no other position for those guys. You know?

Maybe I'll figure this game out one day, but Doncic sure looks like a point guard to me. But on defense, he's not guarding guards. No, but the cross matches a lot of times too. I mean, you know. He's a point forward. If Larry Bird was playing now, he'd be used exactly how Doncic

is being used. I think he's... He wouldn't bring the ball up and initiate every offensive play. I think he could have He wouldn't bring the ball up and initiate every offensive play. I think he could have. You dare discredit the legend? No, I'm just saying I don't think that he would have... You think Bird would have just brought it up and said,

all right, let's go? Totally conceivable. They would run lineups where they would have Maxwell, Parrish, McHale, Bird at shooting guard and like Gerald Henderson and Bird in 82,

they would run stuff through Bird. Like Bird would actually like run the offense and stuff. Anyway, my point is, I think they made Luke eligible at guard forward. I do think he floats back and forth and it allows me to put Embiid, Kawhi, Randall, Dane, Butler, second team. And then I have Gobert, LeBron, Beal, Paul George, and a fifth spot open

that could be Zion, Booker, Kyrie, Tatum, Mitchell. And I don't think it's going to be Mitchell. It was probably going to be Zion, but now it looks like he might miss these last few games and that might be enough to nudge him out. And I'm starting to look at Kyrie more and more. And I think it'd be weird not to have a Brooklyn net in the top 15. So I might have to begrudgingly put him in. Yeah, that's where Zion's going to lose out. Because you're going to have the nets with this record. You're going to have Booker maybe as the one seed or Mitchell as the one seed.

So I'd love to see Zion in there. I had him in there a week ago, but that's before all this stuff happened. And clearly, even with the injury, I can't believe they even beat the Hornets today considering the lineup they're rolling out there. Kyrie's 27-5 and 6 this year. He's almost 50-40-90. He's 50-39-92. Here's the case against Kyrie

other than the two sabbaticals. The Nets with Kyrie are 33-18. The Nets without Kyrie are 11-6. The Nets without Kyrie are 11 and six. You go on through those things again, like Miami without GB Butler is six and 12. Like when he doesn't play, they're fucked.

LeBron, we mentioned Curry. And that's why with the Kyrie thing, it's like, I think they're okay when he's not out there. Granted, he's had an awesome season, but they can survive for a game or two. And when you start thinking about top 15 guys in the league, I kind of want to feel like my team can't survive if he's not playing.

If it's him versus Beal. If Beal's hurt, Washington's done. I got to imagine Harden played in most of those games when he was putting together his MVP case. They were having games where both the other two guys were done and Harden was on a tear. So that might actually be a credit to Kyrie and that the record is misleading.

It looks bad. I mean, the weird thing is when Kyrie was in Boston, they had the same deal. Remember, they had that better record without him? And even I was like, look, that's ridiculous. He's still this incredibly talented guy. And by the time that Kyrie thing was over in Boston, you're like, actually, I think there's some truth to that.

Like, I think, I think it actually, they all enjoyed playing a lot more when he wasn't around. Well, here's, here's the dumb stat I found for you. I was so, I was so excited. I didn't even give you a heads up on this. Okay. There's this website called hoopstats.com. I don't know if you've been there.

They have all these crazy stats and they have these things. Branding. Matchup stats. And they have these things called matchup stats. I have no idea what the validity of this stat is, but here's how they explain it. It's a matchup stat. Did you win your matchup for a game? And they measure

it by your efficiency for the game compared to the player you played against in that game, but you both had to play for 25 minutes or more. Okay. Right? So if Jokic plays in bead, they do the matchup thing and it's like, who is more efficient, better, whatever the, whatever their formula is. And it's like, Jokic wins that one. Jokic won nothing. So I stumbled upon this as I was doing research. So I was like, Oh, this is cool. I have no idea how valid this is, but I wonder. So I went through, I went through all the guys to see if

the records made sense because they're basically like boxers at this point, right? Jokic is 44 and 6 according to the matchup stat. 44 out of 50 times. So it's like he's a boxer. Yeah. Embiid is 23 and 3.

All right. So we're off to a good start with this stat. Curry is 43 and 10. Again, kind of like the stat. Giannis, 37 and four. It's only been four times when he went against somebody at his position who outplayed him and you go on down the line. So I'm like, you know what? I got to go look at somebody who's actually going to suck with this stat because then that'll be a reverse validation. Kemba Walker. 10 and 25. According to the matchup stat. He's only with

10 of 35 matchups this year. Somebody 25 and 5. Durant was 19 and 3. I think Kemba's 4th in the NBA in scoring the last 10 games. Yeah. Beal is 41-13.

Randall is 42-12. Impressive. John Morant, 23-28. I could keep going and going. Was there one that didn't make it? Yeah, give me one that didn't make any sense. So CP3 was 33-19 and that seemed low.

No, that's because he doesn't shoot So CP3 was 33 and 19 and that seemed low. No, well that's cause he doesn't shoot in his, maybe it was like a game score thing. So like he could lose the game score cause he's just not going to take enough shots. Couple more. Kawhi is 37 and five. PG is 31 and four.

Harden was 26 and four. So all those match up. So now I'm like, I got to find somebody else who I think kind of stinks compared to like the playing 25 more minutes so i was like i'll check out compasso because i just feel like he's the turn the punch ball for the nuggets i like him he's feisty but everybody hates him by the way oh well no you gotta watch screens you're gonna watch some of the stuff he does like quiet stars are like enough out of you motherfucker oh I thought Kyrie was gonna like punch him

by the way when Kyrie chucked him though to get position yeah Kyrie spent the whole time Kyrie had a weird game in that Denver game even though they pulled it out he threw the ball on a beeline out of bounds behind Durant that I sent you the video on yeah you sent me that and then Durant turns to Kyrie like why are you looking

at me and then Kyrie's doing like the double hands down thing like no the cut is here. It's like, dude, you punted it backwards. Like it wasn't even close. Compazzo 7 and 18 in the matchup stat. That sounds about right. Rubio is 6 and 30. So he's like the bazooka Joe.

And then what's Carl Anthony Towns? Did you look him up? I didn't look him up. Bledsoe is 13 and 33. So I think I stumbled on an incredible stat. I think there's something here with the boxer matchups. I think it would be hard to figure out who's going against who, and it seems amorphous, and that's why it's flimsy.

But I do like that a lot of those stats matched up. But the reason I started looking it up was for the Mitchell stuff. And Mitchell, according to the stat, was 25 and 18. So there's 18 times where their matchup stat was like, you got outplayed by the other guy, according to our efficiency rankings. That kind of confirmed that I didn't want him

on my third-time NBA. Even though you still don't really know what the basis of this is. I don't, but I do feel like a lot of the records made sense. CP3 was the one that made me, and Dame was 32-22. That one made me a little nervous. But for the most

part, the right guys had great records. And the right guys had bad records. I was looking up the Kemba stuff, by the way. After his 18 against Miami in the loss, he's dipped down. So it's been refreshed. So don't, I just hate when people use these stats like kemba walker stuff at a cocktail party and i make you look bad can we stay with

this or do you want to take another break because i want to do the number thing let's say let's keep going okay what numbers would actually be something you would stop what you were doing i'm going to give you an example all right as we know home runs guys of our generation you know newspapers asking your dad oh how many home runs does he of our generation, newspapers asking your dad, how many home runs does he have? Okay, well, how many does he have to have? Wally Joyner. Remember Dale Murphy, I think, had 37 at the All-Star break one year.

I mean, that's the kind of stuff you would obsess over. I'd care if guys finished at 300. I'd care who won the batting title. 50 homers was a big one. Right. The home run thing, 755, it was the kind of thing that if you grew up obsessive sports you just like these monumental numbers we know what happened with baseball and steroids and ruining the baseball part of the number deal and you know there's another

part of it that i think is is kind of funny in that like i remember being at espn radio and we would go live so i started there in 2006 we would go live to like monumental home runs because that's what you just used to do on late night radio like all right we're gonna go live to and the one that everybody was like why are we going live to sammy sosa home runs nobody likes him nobody likes him no one likes his story anymore and it doesn't matter like we're doing something that you thought was mandatory 10 years ago and now i think we're doing something the audience doesn't really care about. And we sound outdated. They'd be like,

Oh, whatever. Shut up. You've been here a year. Um, so is there anything numbers related that would still get you excited? And not to say the Westbrook thing, um,

is overlooked here. Cause I actually think people did a big deal on this cause it's a monumental number for him to tire Oscar. When I, none of us ever thought anyone would ever do this. No one thought anyone would do it. Can I shit on the triple-double thing? Sure. Nobody was even aware of

these until the mid-80s. And I think it was the Lakers PR guy started counting the magic triple-doubles and made a big deal about them. And it was like somewhere in the mid 80s, the triple double thing started.

So basically until 1985, nobody even knew that this was a thing like, oh, I'm a rebound short. I should go for this. It didn't exist. So Ricky Davis. Right. So it'd be like,

I don't know if all of a sudden 20 ounce morning coffees, it was like, Oh, you've had 738 straight days of 20 ounce morning coffees. And he's like, really? And then it's like, what's the record? You're 20 away from the record.

I am like, that's what it was like until 1985 where people like, Oh, triple doubles. Really? So it's just hard for people like, Oh, triple doubles. Really? So it's just hard for me to, I know who cares. I've always been in the, who cares camp with triple doubles? Who cares? What does it mean? So, so you would have not gone do a live broadcast of him in that Pacers game. Okay. So what exists that would still get you excited? I'm glad you asked. I wrote down my list.

I think the number one record for basketball right now, we're removing Wilt's 100 off the table, right? Watching Curry get 24 last night in the first quarter, in this era, especially this week when no one cares, I can't wait to share it. I cannot wait.

I'm so excited about this at the end of it. 100 seems impossible, but I think it's less impossible than we think. If somebody decided to do it, but you'd have to be, I don't know. The game would probably be too competitive. It would have to be Kerr going, screw it, let's do it. And he never does it. He didn't do it with Klay when I wanted to see. It was like, let's see what Klay can do here.

And they didn't bring him back. And they didn't do it with clay when i wanted to you know it's like let's see what clay can do here and they didn't bring him back and they didn't bring steph back but to have 24 and a quarter of him hitting threes like that it like 80s i know this sounds nuts 80 right now the way the game is played right now right now i don't think 80 is like outer space totally agree at some point in a mailbag i sketched out what the box score would have to look like. I don't remember if it was after Kobe at 81 or whether maybe it was the time Clay Thompson had like, what did he have? Like 63 quarters or something? That's the number that keeps coming up. people think like, oh, you'd have to hit threes. Well, nobody's really hit more than like 12, 13 threes is about as realistic as you're going to get, but the free throws, cause then you're fouling guys out of the other team

too. Right. So it's like, like the Devin Booker game was a really good example. What did he have? 71, 70, 70. Clay had 60 after three quarters, but Devin Booker, like he really good example. What did he have? 71? 70. 70? Klay had 60 after three quarters. But Devin Booker,

like he didn't hit threes in that game. That was the crazy thing. It was like more of a free throws and twos game. So it's like some combo of the Devin Booker game and the Klay game, I think could get you over 80. And even though Devin was going, there were still plenty of possessions where it wasn't gross.

Yeah. Everybody hates that. Everybody hates that game because they lost and he held up a sign that said 70. He should have done that. Right. I don't know. I guess he was young enough. I get why people didn't like it.

But I remember I went and watched the possessions by possessions for him again. I go, they kind of forgot about him even in longer stretches. I'm like, if you're losing, he's going for a number here. Let's see what you can really do. So there was even buckets I think he could have had that didn't happen. And I think the Kobe game is impossible now in the way the NBA is covered and the air of social media and league pass and the scrutiny of game to game. Sam Mitchell didn't double team him that entire game.

That would never happen now. You just couldn't do it. You'd get fired. You'd be fired an hour after the game. It was just over and over again. Single teaming them with either Mo Peterson or Jalen Rose. Like he, like he didn't have 70 points.

I just, so that version's not happening yet, but I do think the Devin Booker game with more threes around eighties conceivable. Here's, here's my list. You want to take a break? Let's take a break and then I'll give you my list.

Okay, alright. So you made a list. You made a list of numbers that are still important to you. Yeah. So, Wilt's 100 has to be one. But I think Kobe's 81 is 1B. Because I think Kobe has the non-wilt record, obviously.

And if somebody started to get close to that, where if somebody had 62 after three quarters or somebody was at 71 with four minutes to go, I think that would, that would bring the most attention slash people holding their breath. And that, and Kobe's passed away. Like, I think people would want that record to live on. So in a weird way, it would also have this Barry Bonds trying to, you know,

pass Roger Maris element to it of just kind of people instinctively wanting Kobe to keep that record. I think the Hank Aaron one is the one with bonds that people were more bummed out about because at that point he's passing McGuire. Yeah. Hank Aaron. Yeah. Um, so I think, one with Bonds that people were more bummed out about because at that point he's passing McGuire. Yeah, Hank Aaron. Yeah.

So I think the 81 is the realistic best one, but this is the one that I think people sleep on, the 33 straight. That's an amazing record. We've only seen it really challenged once by the 2013 Heat, and it was fucking awesome. As soon

as they got over 25 and every game was an event. And then the Warriors did their version of it. I think they won like 24 or 25 in a row. But once it gets past like 23 and it's a really good team, every game becomes like game seven. And so I would say 33 straight would be my second pick behind the Wilt Kobe records. I didn't even think of that one. That one's good.

It's a build up. Always be good. Yeah. It doesn't matter what kind of sport we have, what the styles are. It's always going to just be really hard to win 33 straight games in a basketball league. It just is. And the Miami, that team was incredible. Just for them to win 27 was an amazing achievement.

It really was. I have the NBA scoring mark. So Kareem's at 38,387 points. Carl Malone, 36,928. So LeBron's third at 35,318. Last season was weird. This season wasron's third at 35,318. Last season was weird. This season was weird.

He was injured three seasons ago. But he's still, if you go, you know, basically full season LeBron, you'd expect 2,000 points. We might not get that again, but I would have to think in two seasons he's going to pass it and I'm going to care because, you know, whoever the biggest LeBron

hater is to think and point to this kid coming out of high school going in like 20 years he's going to be the NBA's all-time leading scorer it's just that one I think still matters I agree with you here's my only issue with that record I knew Kareem

has it I'm like probably in the top percentile with this shit. I didn't know what the exact number was. And I do feel like part of like the, the great records is you should be able to just know instinctively what the number is. Like Hank Aaron, I knew what the number was and I think it's just harder with the basketball. So I almost feel like 40,000 points, LeBron breaking Kareem's record, but then

becoming the first guy to have 40,000 points for a career would almost be more important than breaking Kareem's record because that's this round number we could remember. 40,000 is going to be tough. 40,000 is a lot. I'd be surprised if he doesn't break Kareem's record.

Because I think he's going to find a way. Like he even said, you know, hey, if I'm sorry and I can't dunk, I don't want to play anymore. It's still the physical image of seeing him not be good is such a hard thing to envision. Except it is going to happen. And him not good is still probably going to be okay. He'll play more power forward. He'll still just understand the game as well as anyone out there,

but he's not going to give up before that. If he's short of it in two years, I don't think he just says, ah, whatever. I'm not dunking as hard as I used to, so I'm going to bail on this. Again, he's always wanted to play with his kid if his kid ends up being good enough to be on the team. I have three team records that I'm going to group together that I still care about. The Golden State 73. Just a good one. It was really exciting when they were trying to pass the Bulls.

I really enjoyed that, got into it. I think everybody else did, and it felt like it mattered. When they played Utah in that regular season game, and you could tell how much it mattered to them and how hard they were trying, it was fun. It was fun to watch them go for it in an era of teams. After the Pats went 16-0, and then they lose the Super Bowl, and then the Colts are in the same position,

and they're like, that's lame. Look at the Pats. And then they piss away two games even though they were still doing enough to get guys rostered. It was like, there were different bonuses, not roster bonuses,

but incentive bonuses. And so it was just like a weird thing that all of a sudden 16-0 was uncool because the Pats lost the Super Bowl. The 16th game is one of my favorite Patriots games ever, regular season. Probably why they lost the Super Bowl. The Brady to Moss.

Moss screwed it up. He went right back to him next play for the dagger. I loved it. The other two team records, the Celtics going 50-1 at home in 1986 has always been one of my... Were you at the loss?

No, I was not. It was to Portland. Portland was always a weird matchup for those mid-80s Celtics teams. They're super athletic. Games are always high scoring. And Portland just shot the lights out. And that was it.

That was the only time they lost. I think 50-1, I think it stands the test of time, especially now that home court advantage has become less and less important. So I have that one. And then the 96 Bull the 96 bowls going 87 and 13 winning 87% of their games. And just like 87 and 13, we've played a hundred games. We won 87. I still feel like that matters. Like nobody's

doing that again. They're just not, that's not happening. Hitting 400 is the last one that I have just because I never want to see anyone do it. Oh, I didn't know we were switching sports. Oh, I just threw that in there. I don't know. Oh, alright. Wait, I had two more basketball ones. I really really really like this one. Curry's 402 threes.

But I don't know that number. Did you know it? I did only because he's the only guy Who ever had 400 threes in a season And I think When you think about load management You have to make five a game Right?

You have to play 80 games to make five a game And if you play less than 80 games You have to make like 5.1, 5.2 a game I think he's the only one who's made even Who's averaged five a game And he's averaging five a game this year But it's a short season but just like 402 threes will anyone do that again you need the durability

five it's like it's like kind of a great record i just the way guys chuck them now i don't know i mean obviously he's still making them i he's the only player in the league that makes me howl at home out loud when I'm watching games and he had me again he had me again I mean he started he knew how locked that OKC game yeah the Beal scoring title thing which has been a really fun subplot right which he

I apparently admitted to or oh yeah it was on the call and he was like no no he goes he this is why he's doing this because beal had 50 and he's going to see what he can do and he starts bringing the ball up half court and he starts like pimping it before he's even taking the shot and then he's launching it so if you looked at his overall box score you'd be like oh he didn't shoot the lights out no because he actually really started going for it before he knew kerr was going to take uh before

he knew kerr was going to take him out and not bring him back in the fourth because Oklahoma City. And like I said, I mean, they had Dort on him. It just didn't even matter. They were keeping two with him. And the crazy thing is still is even though he was gunning for Curry, when two stayed with him after a screen, he would pass it to another guy. And so the commentators are laughing about it going,

he's still going to make the right read because he can't really help himself even though for him he was a little bit more trigger happy than he then he you know although this season that's why it's been kind of fun to watch as he's forced into these situations at times where he has to do these things where i think when harden was putting together these awesome offensive numbers it was incredible and it was necessity but i I was like, I still think there's a few guys in the league that could probably do this if they had this kind of green light every single possession. Well, it goes back to our Jeremy Grant theory of how many guys could score 20 points a game if we give them the green light. What was the first number you threw out

at me? I said 75 and then we decided that was too low. It might be 200. Wait, I have a really important one. Kyle, get the video machine. Cue this up. Last day of the season. Hornets, Hornets Wizards. All the games are TBD because they're going to want to put on TV like the games of the playoff implications. Hornets Wizards and Grizzlies at Warriors.

And this is why I want you to cue the video. I'm going to even look in my camera here. The Wizards game has to be first. And we need to go into that Warriors game knowing exactly how many points Steph Curry needs to win the scoring title. Because if it's like, it could be like he might need like 48 points to win the scoring title. We could have a little Thompson-Girvin 1978 all over again if they do this correctly.

My fear is that they'll end up staggering it so like the games are simultaneous. That Wizards game has to end before the Warriors game. I want Curry to know exactly how many points he needs. In. Okay. Figured. I had, uh, I had two more records for you that Russell's 11 titles. Oh, I had three more actually. MJ is 37.1. The non-Wilt scoring record still matters to me. I don't know if I'm alone, but when Harden was kind of inching toward it a couple years ago

and I was like, holy shit, he might break the non-Wilt record. I feel like that would be a Harden non-Jordan record. Seriously, compare it. Like the era stuff, we can go in circles all day long on this, the way it's officiatedated the spacing, all these different deals. I mean, I can talk up any point and I can tear any point I can make down, but I still like to think of those as separate times. 37 then is not 37 now with three point shooting. Well, nobody's done it since MJ. Yeah. So I'm just saying if Harden had done it, we both think

somebody will do that though in the next 10 years, right? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Well, I don't want them to do that. The last one I care about is really stupid and I made this up, but it's the 3,000-1,000 club. Anthony Edwards might get it next year.

I'm sorry. The 3,000-1,000 club, which is the three guys ever who played 3,000 regular season minutes and 1,000 playoff minutes in the same season. I have no idea. You're the only person that cares about this. I care about this.

That's a record. One person who cares. It's a double record. 2003 Duncan, 2000 Shaq, and 1987 Bird. That's it. Those are the three guys. The 3,000, 1,000 Club, baby. Yeah.

The legend. So I got two Boston ones in there. I also think the 30,000 points club is a thing that should really matter in a real way. Because that's like, what, seven guys? Durant's going to do it. Because once Carmelo got to 25, it's like, ah, we got, well, now it's got to be the 30,000 point club. As much as I enjoy Carmelo, we can't have a club where Carmelo's one 25, it's like, ah, we got, well, now it's got to be the 30,000 point club. As much as I enjoy Carmelo, he, we can't have a club where like Carmelo is one of the nine members. Melo's not going to get there.

He's a 27,000. I wouldn't think. I'm almost, I'm thinking about doing a pro Melo opening segment on my pod at some point. You're in on Melo. You've come around. No, I, I don't know that I was ever, I certainly wasn't as anti-him as other people were, even though I understood. I just always think the playoff losses for Melo are unfair

because almost every time he got eliminated, the team was always better than the team that he was on. I'm pro-Melo. I just don't want a club where it's like all the great players in the league and Carmelo Anthony. Because right now, it's 30,000. I got it. You got it? Yeah, Kareem, Malone. Because right now, it's 30,000. I got it. You got it?

Yeah, Kareem Malone, LeBron, Kobe, MJ, Dirk, Will, Julius Irving. That's it. That's the entire club. And Durant, potentially? That's Julius with 11,000 from the ABA. Yeah, I'm counting it, though. I'm just pointing it out there

because Moses is ninth it's that's what I always love about Moses who's one of my all-time favorites but they'll always be these records and then it's like hey so-and-so passed most and Moses is so much higher on these things than he's ever thought of I mean real guys that are into it understand his resume and

all that stuff Dan Issel 11th all-time NBA ABA. He played for like... 38 years? Yeah, 18 years, something like that. Yeah, out of the current guys, Durant's at 23,813. Harden's over 22,000 now.

I think those are our two best bets. Joe Johnson's 44th. Yeah, that's pretty nuts. Dwight Howard is 59. Dwight Howard's going to have 20,000 points. There's one more record I like, but I think I'm the only one who cares. Do you know who has the record

for most points in a finals game? Jerry West? Elgin Baylor, 61. The next highest guy was 55, Michael Jordan. I mean, Elgin fucking put up 61 against Russell in the Celtics, and that's held the course now for 60 years. Pretty good. You were good at that.

I kind of threw it out there and was like, are there any of these things? I love records. Okay, but I'm telling you right now, it's not even, I don't even think it's a generational thing. I think it's our own attention span now. Nobody cares about numbers.

And I like it just, I mean, we can throw out, hey, this guy did this or he's averaging this or look at Russell's triple doubles, all that kind of stuff. But the discussion around it, the knowing the numbers like we did, I just don't think anybody cares enough about it. I'm not even telling anybody they're wrong about it. It just, I don't feel like it's talked about the same way. Maybe because we have more things going on and then looking at an almanac at home and highlighting stuff when you're a kid. Is there a way to blame advanced metrics

and the nerds on this at all? Yeah, absolutely. Fuck those guys. Like when, when they decided wins don't matter, I'm just kidding. I know we're kidding but like there's just certain things that that got debunked as being valuable which like rbi having 100 rbi in a year was a thing that mattered and now it's like no rbis don't matter it's like okay cool the wins on pitching though i'm with them on that one um i've always thought but then again now i mean that that's that is irrelevant because i mean guys are guys are getting yanked all the time. And, I mean, the whole 300-win club, we're never going to see another 300-win pitcher.

I mean, never is a really long time, but it's just never going to happen. Like, CeCe Sabathia was the last hope. I was like, hey, you know, if he keeps doing it, and then it was like, no. Can I, since we're on this, I don't know, should I tease this? Because this is my favorite

part of any of the prep that we did i'll do it next okay coming up next what leo dicaprio was gonna do if he didn't act okay i'll make this quick i'll make this quick because there's still a couple things we want to play the how well do you know your co-host game coming up here shortly i have i have two small things too okay all right i'm just going to run through this because this is the fool's gold season i remind people of this every time every nba season this starts to happen the local broadcast the team's 20 under 500 they're grasping at anything to be exciting but there are so many nights in these last few weeks, in this final week,

where you're going to see scoring totals from players where you have to go, eh, okay, just to run through a few of them. This is just in the last week plus. Curry has 24 in the first quarter. All right, well, that's Steph. That's a lot. Karis Levert's had 30 in four of

his last six games. Okay, Ryan. Karis Levert, he's an offensive Steph. That's a lot. Karis Levert's had 30 in four of his last six games. Okay, Ryan. Karis Levert, he's an offensive player. He's fixed his shot a little bit. 30 in four of his last six games. Here's where it gets interesting. Kenyon Martin, 27 the other night. Not his dad.

His kid. He averages 10 a game. Wait, can we stay in Houston for a second? Have you seen some of the guys that have been scoring for them? Have you seen a of the guys that have been scoring for them? Have you seen Olenek's free agent run? Every time I watch them, I go, you know what? I have a list of guys I'd like. I like Okoge.

I like Jalen Brunson. Olenek, teams should be going, how do we get this guy in here? I wanted the Celtics to get him as a buyout guy. I have him in a fantasy league, and I picked up Olenek after that trade. And I've been starting Olenek. Like he's putting up monster numbers. That whole Houston team. It's like the great tanking season anyone's had.

It's like the most fun tanking team we've had in 10 years. So Kenyon Martin, again, who averages, I think nine. Yeah, he averages nine a game. He went back-to-back 26 and 27 points nine a game he went back to back 26 and 27 points in a game he had 27 and 10 in one of those games do you know

who Kyrie Thomas is nobody else does he's on the Rockets as well his second game ever his second game ever in the NBA he had 27 Bogdanovich had 48 Dwayne Bacon had 28 in a game siakam had a 44 11 7 slash i watched it how will netto we thought it was raul netto for a decade and then he starts he starts hanging out

with ross he's like by the way this happens a lot of european players that's why i never get mad at anybody on draft night for getting the pronunciation wrong because there's always the dan gadzareich Gadzarek deal. A few years in, you're feeling yourself. You're like, hey, by the way, here's how to pronounce my name. How about Thibodeau Thibodeau? It's always been Thibodeau. It's just the Tibbs nickname screws everybody up.

But people called him Thibodeau for 10 years. They didn't correct anybody. Nah, he was too busy working on how to ice people to the side. Nice! Nail! Get to the nail! Alright, Howell Netto, 25. Michael Mulder of the Warriors, 25. Ty Jerome, who I love,

23 in a game. I also like Ty Jerome. Marvin Bagley stock, like Dogecoin right now, depending pre-SNL Dogecoin, 31 points. He had four the next night. So that Marvin Bagley game is the game they're mailing to the other 29 GMs in August.

They'll be like, hey, Bags, see this game? 31. Anthony Lamb, UVM's own one and only pro basketball player. He had 22 again for the Rockets. When are you going to Mo Bamba?

Mo Bamba has had a week. He lit up the Celtics. He had another game where he was 22 and 15. Rui Hachimura had 27 in the game. Okoro for the Cavs had 32 in a game. Diallo for the Pistons, who I sneaky kind of liked when he was at the Thunder. He had 35.

Every night, there's like three guys that are flirting with 30 that you don't even know who they're playing for. And none of them are ever on the Celtics. Good point. I have two very tiny subjects for you. Jordan Clarkson has been

penciled in as our sixth man of the year. Are we sure he's the sixth man of the year? There's been some interesting literature about this recently, and it confirms the eye test of his last 32 games. He's 17 a game, shooting 38% field goal, 31% from three. And then there's this kind of sneaky Joe Ingalls movement happening. And there's Ben Falk did some cleaning the glass stuff about how Ingalls, the on off stuff, it's

way, way, way more favorable for Ingalls than Clarkson. And I just want to make sure we're not doing the Lou Williams, uh, Jamal Crawford thing with Jordan Clarkson, where he's just fun to watch and you catch him on the right night. He's amazing. And the TV announcers talk about how awesome he is. And yet it's kind of a flimsier resume than you think. Now the counter and why I'm going to still vote for him is I do think he's really important for that Utah team.

And I have watched him swing multiple, multiple games. And when somebody like Mitchell comes out and is gone for three weeks, you at least feel like, all right, this is somebody that can step in and be a competent scoring guard. But he was like, I think 10 or 12 to one favorite to win that award. And I'm not sure it's locked. And there might be some angles seven to one underdog magic. I don't know who's more important on that award. And I'm not sure it's locked. And there might be some Ingles seven to one underdog magic. I don't know who's more important on that team, Ingles or Clarkson. Like if you had

to lose one, I would be more predisposed to losing Clarkson. And I think Ingles is really valuable for them. Well, Ingles does, I think more incorporates more people. Although Clarkson at times had assist ratios that were so low you were like you know you're allowed to pass those other four guys like you know what you get to if you want to Ingles has also had shooting stretches this season that you're like you see what this guy is doing but I also

think he can just he can get their offense going a little bit more and I don't know what the defensive metrics are you know I think at the extremes they're actually he guards he guards he guards, he guards, he always guards the other big wings. He's always stuck with those guys. Cause people will like laugh about the matchup and you go,

you know what? Angles fights. Like he hangs in there a little bit. You know, I'd rather have a guy who fights. Who's not as great athletically than a guy who's great athletically that just doesn't care about concepts and is doing his own thing. Those guys cost you more possessions defensively than the guy that is just

working his ass off all night just to cut off any driving lane. So, what about Derrick Rose? What about Derrick Rose? Man, he's kind of a starter.

I don't... He isn't though. I... Seems like cheating. Yeah, Derrick Rose could be in there. I was kind of excited about... He started three games this year.

I got excited for Brunson and then I looked at Brunson's stats and I just couldn't justify it. Why do I like him too? What's wrong with us? I think he's really important to them. I really think,

especially in crunch time, I feel like if, you know, he's the only other guy they have on the perimeter who can save a possession if,

you know, Luka's double teamed or whatever. It actually seems like Brunson makes the right moves, but his stats just aren't good enough. Here's the other thing I had for you. Basically, since the decision,

so every free agency since, 2011 on, I think Butler is one of the four most important free agent signings of any summer since the decision. And I know that sounds crazy, but I made a list. Durant going to Golden State is the most important. LeBron going to Cleveland in 2014

and LeBron going to the Lakers in 2018 are tied for second. I have Durant as most important because they won two titles and I think they would have won three if he didn't get hurt. And I think Butler's fourth and he's competing against David West going to the Pacers. You had it just ahead of that, huh?

Iguodala going to the Warriors. Al Horford going to the Celtics. Millsap going to the Hawks. Kawhi going to the Warriors Al Horford going to the Celtics Millsap going to the Hawks Kawhi going to the Clippers They haven't won jack shit yet Bogdanovich going to Utah And Rozier going to Charlotte Kawhi going to the Clippers is already ahead of Millsap

Well, you think they'd give up all the picks I'm just saying I was amazed going through this Don't ask why I spent an hour on this. How few good free agent signings there are. Very rarely does this work out. And you could argue like Gordon Hayward to Charlotte

is like a huge... That's incomplete right now. You don't know what that grade is. Right, it's incomplete, but I'm saying like, even the fact that that worked out is unusual. You know, that that worked out

for three, four months. Most of the time, free agent's and Sonny's either suck. But we don't know. Aldridge to the Spurs is the one I forgot to mention. And that one was a big deal. Kemba to the Celtics didn't make the cut? Just Horford, I think, would be the only one. Horford to the Sixers, not on the list.

Yeah, Horford to the Sixers, not on the list. My point is, I was shocked by how few of these big, big... Horford to the Sixers, not on the list. Yeah, Horford to the Sixers, not on the list. My point is, I was shocked by how few of these big, big, we spent so much time trying to figure out free agency, and really it's like two LeBrons, one Durant, and one Butler, and those were the only four that mattered over the last 10 years. You want to know why, though, that list is smaller? And then how important the Butler signing was. No, it's good. It's good.

But the reason why that list is smaller is all those top guys, they demand to be traded before they make it to free agency. And then the team won't trade for them unless they know Butler signing was. No, it's good. It's good. But the reason why that list is smaller is all those top guys, they demand to be traded before they make it a free agency. And then the team won't trade for them unless they know they have

something lined up already. You know, so the days of hoarding cap space, which was always overrated in the first place. I remember falling for

that shit all the time like 10, 15 years ago. I'd be like, oh, that's great. They're going to have all this cap space and they're going to have all this cap space.

And finally, enough GMs you talk to them, be like, yeah, it's cool. Like you get to tell the media you have a ton of cap space and then guess what happens you spend 15 million on OJ Mayo because you have cap space and nobody wants to play for you. The Celtics

were the best and worst scenario of it right where they built cap space and they got Horford and Hayward and back to back years and on paper it was great and only one of the two worked out and they spent a shitload of money age has never been a big yeah he's never been a big cap space guy though which I you know age actually did explain it to me one time but it was another GM and he goes you know at least in trades I know what I'm getting you go cap space I'm waiting around planning for 18 months with no idea who's going to say yes and

most people don't say yes to you. All right. You want to do the three questions? You're not going to like this. All my three questions were basketball related. I didn't do... No, that's what we did. I did all basketball too. So this is something Van Pelt and I used to do back in the day. How old do you know your co-host? Where you would ask a question about yourself and the other person has to answer it. About yourself? Oh, I might have screwed this gimmick up. I just had three questions for you. I did a different gimmick. I just had three questions that I was interested for your answer about basketball.

All right. I can work with that. Why don't we do it that way? Why don't we do this and we'll do your thing next week? Done. Yeah, I'm sure I can figure out three. Why don't you go first so I can understand tone and concept? I'll just give you three. You don't you go first so I can understand tone and concept? I'll just give you three.

You don't even need to give me one. I'm happy to carry the work here. Will Marcus Smart be in the Celtics next season? I don't... I mean, it's so hard to move anybody. I would think that they would like to try something different. I don't have intel on that. I just have watched him enough.

Can I give you a little breakdown on this today? Because I was charting this game today. I'd love to hear it. They get down 12. It's 87-75. And a lot of it came became was this the part when he took the 29 foot three when they had momentum i don't even i don't think i have that in there i couldn't keep track of them all okay and i guess my frustration with this it's almost like you know i'll hear people talk about a certain way you know know, I knew all the years when

I would talk about cousins, I would just go like, why does no one else seem to understand what I'm talking about? And then I was the deck. And I think there's a lot of this stuff that happens in the Boston market with this, where there's this love for him because all the Tommy points and everything. And you just go, yeah, but there's a lot of other stuff too, that I don't think you guys keep track of. So 87, 75, the Celtics get back into it with effort. And that's what I love is that if you're a coach, that's probably why all those guys are psychos because they're just like,

if you just tried a little bit harder, we could actually get back into this game. In defensive effort, there's a very specific play. Like Evan Fournier was going to get screened by Bam. He was trying to get back to the ball handler, which was an original assignment. So he worked hard to try to get around the screen and Bam wasn't ready for his effort. Moves a little bit

offensive foul turnover Celtics have the basketball. It was all just because you wanted to try a little bit harder around the screen. All right. So yeah, smart decides on another play at 87 75 to help 48 to double Butler, even though Butler had picked up his dribble gets burned in the baseline

cut bucket. All right, cool. Smart overhelps again. Ariza beats him baseline. Smart then came down and was the only guy to touch the basketball in a possession, didn't look at anybody else, blocked layup. He bodies Butler up 30 feet away from the hoop. Jimmy Butler, who's not known as a deep threat,

decide smart. He'll have those moments where he's like, I'm going to just start working you with my body. I'm going to get my body right on you. Butler takes one jab step, blows right by him, lay up. So then smart gets mad.

And then over helps again. Defensively gets beat in a back cut on a dunk. Then he's even more mad. So then he drives into three people by himself. No one else touches the basketball, blocked. And then he dropped a pass out of bounds. And then he had a foul on Butler because he was mad about an offensive possession didn't happen. So smart will live in his own little world that is negatively impacting all of these possessions that don't really show up other than just a miss shot attempt or a plus minus where somebody scores on his assignment, his bodying people up 30 feet away from the hoop to show how physically is his defender. As the guy goes right past him. I don't understand why more people can't figure this part out. It's amazing when he gets switched into a big and holds up in a post that is such a lower percentage of defensive positions compared to the rest of the time in the

perimeter where I have no idea what he's doing. I don't think he's on the team next year. That was a long answer. Sorry. It was a good... Listen, you laid out a very compelling play-by-play of just what it's like when he doesn't have it in a

certain game and how damaging some of the stuff he can do during a game when he's not playing well. The bigger issue to me is that I don't think athletically he's the same. I don't think his defense is the same. I don't think he's the same guy on that end

that he was three, four years ago. And he seems to think he is, but- I think he thinks he's the best player on the team. We've watched guys go by him for two years now, but especially this year, he was able to get it back together in the playoff game, but guards can just go by him. As you said, he's really good at guarding up post-up guys. He's really good at making those

nitty gritty hustle things. I think he has an unbelievable relationship with other players where contenders would be like, oh, I would love to have Marcus Smart as our fourth guy. That's the kind of guy we need. He's a winner. And I'm with you. I love Marcus Smart. I just think he's been pretty overrated this year. Um, I think he thinks he's better than he is. And I think defensively he, we just haven't seen it. Like there is no way anyone who votes for him for all defense this year is not watching Celtics games. And you know, there's no guard that it seems like he can really shut down anymore. I think he's really at his best when it's like a bigger player that he can kind of get in his jersey, like somebody in that six, eight, six, nine range, like a Paul George type.

Yeah. But I just, my, my fear, and I know he got hurt earlier this year. We should mention that. But my fear is that, you know, he's seven years in the league plus all the college stuff. Like it's like a football player who just has taken a lot of hits in his case. is that he's seven years in the league plus all the college stuff. It's like a football player who just is taking a lot of hits. In his case, he's taking a lot of charges. He's always flying one place or the other.

He's using his body. He even had a jump ball on the play today where he was incredible. Yeah, and I just worry. Even backhanded Butler, which no one really seemed to catch. He's one of those things after the season, if they're like, Oh, Mark, Marcus smart is playing the herniated disc or Marcus smart was playing with some injury that wasn't revealed till after the year, because that's the only way I think you can explain what I've seen this year, which is that he's not the same athletically and defensively as he used to be. So, you know, he's, he's, again, he's only seven years in the league. He's only 27 years old.

So the question for the Celtics, he's going in a contract year next year. This mix clearly doesn't work. Um, he's like 15 million. You could patch them together with somebody else. I think he's the logical trade candidate. And I loved watching him. I thought he was a big part of the three conference finals teams. But I also think people are going to overpay for what he's done in years past versus what I watched this season. Yeah, as soon as he puts that cape on, I'm like, uh-oh. Like, here we go.

I love him. I want him to be good. I loved rooting for him. I think he's been tough to root for this year. I think he's been really erratic. And, um, a lot of the stuff that he used to be really good at, we just haven't seen this year. I think we covered it.

Yeah. I don't want to do anymore. Okay. Um, my next question for you is this. Oh, well, this is a little, we'll do a little sorbet. My next question for you is this. Oh, this is a little sorbet. Who bitches more to referees, American players or foreign players? That's such a good question.

Thanks. Because Doncic is out of control. Doncic and Jokic. Jokic is now bitching. He bitches as much as Doncic and Jokic. Jokic is now pitching. He pitches as much as Doncic does. Did you see him in that Nets game last night? I know. It was bad last night. Every time he gets any contact. I do think

that everybody now thinks that you're just not supposed to. It's just this invisible bubble around you on every single shot attempt or around the rim. You're like, what? When did that happen? If you're driving, you're even with somebody, with somebody your body's gonna touch and it doesn't mean it's always a foul and now i think everybody's like you touched me and it's a foul uh i'm still gonna go american players i mean the lebron lakers experience full throttle is is pretty tough dame is borderline miserable the entire game which is kind of weird because I love watching him play.

But he ends up in the ground and it's just hands up. Doesn't want to get back on defense and just stares. And, you know, I wish guys I wish guys could do it. You know, I was actually watching some American rugby today. L.A. L.A. versus New York. Shout out to the rugby today. LA versus New York. Shout out to the rugby league. And they had...

This is unbelievable. You need to watch some of this, by the way. They had the ref mic'd up, and there's no one in the stands. And you could hear everything every player was saying to the ref, and everything the ref was saying back to the player. And so the ref goes everything the ref was saying back to the player

and so the ref goes to the one side i think was the new york side's captain and goes hey get control of your guys i'll talk to you i don't want to talk to anyone else i'd love that if there was a designated complainer in the nba where we would just speed up the complaining where no one else is allowed to complain the entire time. Who'd be the Celtics complainer? Fournier. You just keep it moving. Yeah. Okay. Lakers, LeBron would be like, I've got this guy. I mean, smart complaints as much as anybody out there too. Lowry. Yeah. Wait a minute. Lowry, LeBron, Lillard, all first team. Cousins is American. Again, I've never seen a player check out because of the refs quicker mentally than DeMarcus Cousins.

I mean, he'd be getting the intros going. That guy's looking at me weird. Oh, this is going to suck. Blake Griffin's coming off the bench. But he's playing crunch time. Would he get the most improved complainer award? Because he was like, you know, he's off the radar there for a bit. But now he's in these he get the most improved complainer award because he was like you know he's off the radar there for a bit but now he's in these big nets as good as he's ever been i texted a couple of uh you and a couple other yesterday about like blake griffin is back

and by back i mean he's flopping and bitching like like it's 2013 who are we forgetting who who are we oh there's a lot more. Well, Westbrook. Westbrook's out of control. If he misses a shot, he thinks he got fouled. Yeah, I think it's still the Americans. I do think we've got it. USA. I do think Donchich is the single most petulant

star now. Gobert does a lot of, am I dying? So he doesn't do as much. Oh, my eye! Tice, although Tice could get punched in the face. And then I just can't believe Tice didn't ever try to just choke hold somebody once. You'd think he would have just been like, I'm taking the fine.

I don't care. And Tice would just take it. He'd get his ass kicked. Did we go too far on the Marcus Smart stuff? Now I feel bad. I love Marcus Smart. I just don't think he's been good this year.

You like him more than I do. Yeah. All right. You're safe. I just, I feel like we're going to find out after the year that he had some injury

that they hid from us. Okay, then I'll take back everything I said. Okay. But I do think that there is an element of his confidence that isn't a great fit

with this group right now. I don't think you can be the, well, you know, with Kemba's year, who knows, but when things are right, he's the fourth most talented guy. Look, I've been over all this before. I need to shut myself up, so I'm going to stop. There you go. My third question would

almost be a good one to end the podcast on. I'm really excited for this. Is Golden State passing on Lamella for Wiseman officially a disaster? No, I'm not ready to say it's a disaster at all. But it feels like one right now. I don't think it's a disaster either.

No, but Wiseman is a completely different situation because they weren't going to let him just make a million mistakes out there. That's what I felt like. I felt like they were coaching him where they were punishing him for mistakes where I think there's other rookies that are allowed to make a million. I mean, Anthony Edwards can do whatever he wants. And LaMelo...

LaMelo's the more talented guy right now. I mean, there's no question about that. I was watching him play his brother tonight. LaMelo was really good tonight. It did look like he might have hurt his wrist, but I think he's all right. But I was just him play his brother tonight. And LaMelo was really good tonight. It did look like he might have hurt his wrist, but I think he's all right. But I was just thinking tonight. He did come back in, though.

He did come back in, and I'm sure it'll be okay. If you just put him on this Warriors team, and you assume he's playing with the same, you know, recklessness and all the stuff he's done in Charlotte, you just put him, even without Klay, with Draymond and Oubre and some of the other ones, with the way Curry's played this year, I just would have really enjoyed it.

I think he would have fit in from an IQ, the way the game moves, kind of intangible standpoint in a really, really fun way. He's how unselfish he is. I think he would have been a second score for them tonight. I don't know why it never occurred to me until tonight, but I think I've had so much fun watching golden state this year. Just thinking like, man, if they had taken Lamello and they had clay coming back and they had this Minnesota pick, they, they would have a chance to put together the most fun offensive team,

you know, since the 2017 Warriors, basically. It's just a bummer. I still really like Wiseman as a talent. I think it's going to take some time. The comp would be, you know, like, I don't know, Jermaine O'Neal and the Blazers. How many years before he started playing real minutes? Like three years?

Jermaine had way more skill fundamentally, though, though where wise men when he has those gifted moments physically you're like oh my god who's that guy out there and for all the shit that we take in lamello deal which some of it's deserved no one ever runs any of the audio from a podcast closer to the draft where i was telling you i go you know what's weird about theamello story is that some of the teams that I trust that finally got him in were like, Hey, you know what? There's more, there's more going on here than that disaster down in Australia. Like this guy, this guy's got some stuff to him. And I don't know if Kerr will ever admit to you because you have a tighter relationship with me. And I, you know, I would love to know how close wiseman lamello actually was where it was a pretty foregone conclusion it felt like for the longest time that why it was always wiseman

and if there was ever any debate i'm just wondering if there was ever any debate there where they were like maybe we go mellow i think the thing people underestimate is that he really wanted to go to charlotte and I think he handled the interviews accordingly. Whatever the interviews were. The interviews really hurt him with the other teams. There's no question. There were teams that when they got him in the building

they were like oh, okay. There's a little more here. I think when he did the Charlotte interview in that whole week he was gregarious at an outdoor bar in Manhattan Beach hanging out with like five LA

Kings just running it just in a great mood and then I think for some of the other teams he was Rosillo outside a hot dog truck at 201 in the morning in Hartford with two drunk guys coming up to him, wanting to talk MMA. I think that was his demeanor.

That was my takeaway. I think Charlotte got Manhattan Beach Rosillo in their experience. We're like, oh, this is going to be awesome. I'm not sure he showed that side to Golden State of Minnesota. And look, you're taking somebody top three, and if you're not clicking with them at all

in any part of the process, you're going to be scared to take them. And Golden State really liked Wiseman, and it still might be the right pick. I think, though, that they definitely probably thought they were going to get a little more out of him this year. I don't think they knew he was going to be this rough. They could say what they wanted, but, oh, we knew it was going to be Project. But I still feel like they thought he was going to get a little more out of him this year. I don't think they knew he was going to be this rough. They could say what they wanted but oh, we knew it was going to be Project, but I still

feel like they thought he was going to play this year. And you know why I know that? Because they fucking started him. Yeah, I mean, even your man Jalen Rose said that the Warriors, he said that the Warriors told LaMelo they were going to draft him. Interesting. Alright.

Do with that what you will. Alright, you're doing your pod twice. interesting all right anything else do with that what you will all right you're doing your pod twice I will be doing this pod two more times tape it an in-person podcast

tomorrow what are you doing me and fantasy and Chris we're doing our first rewatchables in 15 months in the same room

so all of us got our shots the last one we did in the same room. So all of us got our shots. The last one we did in the same room was outbreak. What we did is the pandemic. Wait a minute, you did? Yeah, we did outbreak as the pandemic was going on, not realizing what was going to happen with the pandemic,

but being worried that that was the worst case scenario. And now 15 months later, we're back. So there you go. So that's what I have going. Any last words from you? Nick Nurse, hopefully this week. The nurse man? I just want to ask him.

I'm going to just go like, let's cut through the bullshit here. When people talk about you and your defensive rotations and concepts, they freak out. So help me understand these. It may take a while, but I don't know. All right. Good luck with that. All right. And why'd you play Gasol so much against the Celtics?

I won't lead with that. We were like, what's up with that Nate guy? Like, Hey, Nick, thanks for joining the show. Gasol,

trusted him a little bit too much, huh? That's weird. Thanks for not playing Ibaka more. All right. So we're back Sunday night. Start next week. That's right.

Sundays. Sundays from here on out. Next Sunday night, that will be the end of the season. The scoring title. All the seeds. We'll be able to know what the playoff matchups are. I'll have FanDuel bets. We'll be ready to go.

See you then. All right. That's it for the Bill Simmons podcast. Don't forget about a new rewatch of us coming Monday night. Lethal Weapon 2. And we will be back on this feed on Tuesday. See you then.