The Bill Simmons Podcast - All-NBA Arguments, Milwaukee’s Best, CP3 Groundhog Day, and a Rodgers Intervention With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Milwaukee Bucks' statement win against the Brooklyn Nets, how the Lakers' seeding could shake things up for Round 1, scariest possible first-round playoff exits, All-NBA teams, news of Aaron Rodgers not wanting to return to the Packers for the 2021 NFL season leaking hours before the NFL draft, and more! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you love the rewatchables, every episode we've done, almost 200 episodes and counting, is available only on Spotify. You can still get any new episode from the last 60 days, but if you want everything dating back to 2017, Godfather, Godfather 2, Jaws, all the classics we've done so far, we have some good ones coming up too. You can find them all on Spotify. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to

go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way, if you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs, the next drive. They have so much stuff. It's crazy. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit fanduel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com

to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell

of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it.

Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age.

We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com and The Ringer Podcast Network. New rewatch of us coming on Monday. What about Bob? Bill Murray, a classic, ageless, 30 years old this year, and it's still fantastic. Me and Van Lathan and Sean Fennessey broke it down. Also tried to figure out where it ranks on the greatest therapist movies of all time. Subscribe to the rewatchables. There's a lot of rumors, a lot of rumors about the first in-person rewatchables with me, Chris, and Sean happening next week. And it's going to be one of the biggest movies

we could possibly do. A movie that we have been circling for years. So be ready. Be ready for that one. Something I wasn't ready for, my daughter turned 16 this weekend. And man. It means a couple of things. First, I'm old. So start there. Second, it is really cool when you raise a child and they're actually a good kid and motivated and fun to hang out with. And that's really all you can ask for. Right. At some point, you know, I guess the one

thing I've learned as a parent is at some point, the kid, it's going to be up to the kid, right? You can put your kid in position and succeed. You can kind of walk them through all these different lessons. You can hold their hand in a lot of different ways. You can nudge them towards certain things they're good at. But when it gets to like 14, 15, 16, at some point, it's got to start coming from them. And your kids find out, you know out what are their talents, what do they care about, what kind of friends do they want to be around, how hard they want to try in school, what do they want to do outside of school, all that stuff.

It's really fun watching this little tiny child that you raised kind of blossom and grow up and then start deciding their own destiny on stuff. So, um, I guess the best thing I could say, cause they always say it goes fast. Um,

you hold on for the fucking ride. It goes fast. It's really cool. And it hits a point, you know, when it's the 16th birthday and your default would be, oh my God, I can't believe it.

I'm so old. This is going by too fast. I don't look at it that way. I look at it like this has been a 16-year journey. I remember just about everything. It's completely intimate for me and my wife, all these memories that we have specifically and, and, you know, they belong to you. And at some point your kid grows up and that's the way it goes. And they're going to understand things differently than you did. Their generation is

going to be wired differently and you can't make yourself crazy about it. You just have to enjoy the ride. So that's where I am right now. And at the same time, I'm depressed because I have a 16 year old daughter. Oh my God, I can't believe it. Anyway, Rosillo is coming up. Happy birthday Z and let's bring in Burrell Jam. All right, Ryan Rosillo is here. It is Sunday night. A lot of good basketball stuff going on. We're getting close to the end of the season. There's some playoff matchup stuff.

There's some all-NBA stuff. There's some panic button stuff. We're coming off the NFL draft. Rusillo, when are we going every Sunday? Is this the last bi-weekly one? When are we just going? I think that's your call more than it is mine, but I'm ready to go. There's so much going on. Let's start with Milwaukee. Milwaukee, the team nobody wanted to talk about all year. Nobody wanted to talk about Giannis winning an MVP

even though his stats were basically as good as they were during the two MVP seasons. People got bored by their 4-12. They got bored by Coach Budd. They've hung in. They win a big game against Brooklyn today. Granted, no James Harden, but it was a game where it had to be your best guy against my best guy. Let's see what happens. Let's pull it out.

It's a Milton Berle game. Let's pull it out. Let's stand next to the urinals and pull it out and see what we got. And Giannis pulled it out and slapped the nets with it. And it was impressive. And I was texting you. I really wanted the Bucks to win a game like that because I had already mentally decided, nah, they don't have it. They're not going to have the firepower. But then we saw today,

pretty easy for Giannis to get basically all the shots he wants against that team. Did it change your feelings about their destiny in the East? No, it didn't change him because I think I've tried to be fair about so many of these different teams. I wish I could come on and say, there's two teams that can win the title and don't talk to me about the rest of them, right? The great radio tees or something that'd be awesome on television. But if there's anything that I'm learning from the season, which is tough to kind of learn anything is that I have a real open mind about how many different teams can win it. So the no hardened thing is a real factor, but the no hardened thing is becoming I have a real open mind about how many different teams can win it. So the no-harden thing is a real factor, but the no-harden thing is becoming this factor where we don't even know

if he's going to be back before the playoffs and you're just supposed to roll them out and beat everybody. And the scary thing is that we're still okay with that being an option because of how great those three guys can be. Today specifically though, this was a great game. To watch Durant and Giannis duel it out back in the day, anytime there's a great regular season game now I'll be like an hour in and go hey this is awesome this is why I watch all the time well you know what that's a isn't that a sad reflection on this season when we have an awesome game it's like oh yeah this is why I like basketball I forgot it's like Philly Utah um there's a couple Phoenix games recently I got fired up for remember the Lakers Philly game like we were texting each other it was on a friday night and you're going like i think it was maybe it was the third i forget but going oh my god like this game's awesome and look how much fun this is

and everybody's trying this is hard phoenix has had a couple like yeah yeah absolutely so the weird thing about this one today though was that they decided to single cover Giannis and Giannis was hitting from the outside so if you're going to have DeAndre sagging off of him which is what you want to do to cut off drive angles and the way Milwaukee lines up the guys around him whether it's Drew Middleton um DeFincenzo um even Forbes like it's it's a tough group to help off of so they were leaving Giannis with all sorts of just cushion, and they weren't helping a ton.

There was a couple possessions late or maybe when Blake was on them, and then they went small where it was Jeff Green. And so Giannis really could kind of do whatever he wanted, and I don't know if that's how simple they would be in a playoff scenario.

Well, didn't you feel like it was a little F youU. to Giannis? They were even to the bitter end. He was over 40 points and they were still sagging four feet off him. And they were like, go ahead. Keep it going. Now let's see if you can do it with three minutes left. Now let's

see if you can do it with two minutes left. But I thought he was really comfortable. You're right. When we get to the playoffs, especially if it's a seven-game series, there'll be a lot of doubling and a lot of different stuff. But listen, I really think the Bucs needed a game like this. This is what I was texting you as it was going on. I was like, they just needed one of these.

They needed to beat this team. I know Harden wasn't out there, but I wanted to see them win your firepower against my firepower game. The reason I was really intrigued heading into it was I was doing a lot of recon for this pod we're about to do. And we have all these different things we want to cover and Milwaukee heading into this game. They're 39 and 24. But if you looked at their stats and you just covered their record, you would assume they would

have only had like nine losses this year, right? They're averaging 119.3 a game, which is first. They're second in three-point shooting percentage, which is 39%. They're second in rebounding. Defensively, they're fourth in opposing field goal percentage. They're 6.3 points in front. You would just think like, oh, they're having an awesome year.

It's not as great as you think, but just like, you know, not watching the games, just looking at the roster and the stats, you think like, oh, this worked. Oh, they're getting a lot out of their bench. Oh, look at Portis. Ah, DiVincenzo, really shooting well. But yet I test wise, I always felt like they were going to be on the short end of the stick

in a game like today, which is why I felt like it was so important that their best three outplayed Brooklyn's best two and a half or whatever. So look, we, you and I have discussed every Sunday night for three years now, don't overrate the regular season. At the same time, I wanted to see what they could do in a game where the other guy on Brooklyn was going off. In this case, it was Durant. Durant looked awesome. He made, took 33 shots. He made 16. Looked like 2014 Durant. And they kind of weathered it. And they kind of gave it back. And different guys stepped up. And I think, to me, they're in the mix. I don't think Brooklyn, Philly, Phoenix, both LA teams. To me, Milwaukee has to be considered there. and we've all been gun-shy of doing it just because of these playoff losses the last two years. I don't think it's fair.

Don't you feel like Milwaukee is the team version of a guy that's won a couple MVPs and it doesn't matter what they do that next year? Yeah, because Giannis is their best player and that's why. I think that's a fair way to put it. But, you know, we've talked about the last couple years, right? They're up 2-0 against Toronto. That was that the series split but they easily i think a couple plays

could have won that one and then last year whatever bubble you at least have to put a little mini asterisk uh over blaming them but you know it's just so ugly it was so ugly i mean they got smoked and i get it that's why i don think I'd get mad at somebody for being dismissive. I just don't want to be dismissive of them. Now, the other part of this, too, is the Drew Holiday factor. Like, what he did against Kyrie. I mean, maybe Kyrie was just off today, but Kyrie was a non-factor. I mean, Van Gundy even brought it up.

He goes, I don't remember a game where Kyrie was having this hard a time shaking somebody. We were talking about Kyrie Irving, who can literally shake anyone with maybe the greatest set of handles we've ever seen. And he struggled in this one. And we've seen Drew time and time again when assigned to really chase a premier perimeter guy, make it look like, wow, I don't, you know,

I'm not used to ever seeing this guy. Like when Devin Booker couldn't do anything with him in big possessions, couldn't shake him. I'm glad you mentioned that because that was that awesome Phoenix-Milwaukee game. Yeah.

And he played D on Booker on that final possession regulation. It was the most ridiculous 10 seconds of guard defense you're going to see. Like he weathered every move. It was like he was stuck to his jersey. And yeah, the Kyrie thing was real. I really did feel like, you know,

it wasn't just, oh, Kyrie doesn't have it today. It was like, he didn't really want to do a Drew Holiday. Now, Kyrie will put that in his head and be like, all right, we'll see, motherfucker. Wait till the playoffs. But Drew is as good guarding Kyrie as anyone in the league. And it's not a long list. And it also led to Kyrie when they were down three

and they got the ball back. Like, he pulled up from pretty deep on the right side because you kind of feel like, Hey, this is the freest look I've gotten here in a while. And it's, I'm not going to sit here and say it's a bad shot for Kyrie. We've seen him make these shots before,

but it felt like, Hey, I haven't really done anything much. So let me kind of have my moment here and see if I can get this one. He misses it. There was also a block by Giannis on Durant on a jump shot that I don't know. I don't know that I've ever seen Durant shot block like that.

Yeah, that was sick. Can we just finish, though, with this? Because as much as we're doing this on the open-mindedness of Milwaukee, this is the stat that just jumps out whenever I'm looking at these teams going into it. Against 500 teams, Milwaukee going into today is winning 50% of those games. They're like a 500 team, and Brooklyn's winning 70% of their games against 500 teams,

and that's without their three guys barely playing together. And as excited as we are about elements of Milwaukee, on the net side of this, none of this really means that much without Harden because it completely changes all your defensive matchups anyway. And I really don't think Brooklyn would defend Giannis

that way in a playoff series. I just don't. I don't think they would wait that long to actually send help at some point. Well, I wonder, you know, we always talk about Brooklyn. Well, you got to wait these guys, you know, wait till they start playing together. They get the rep stuff like that. Milwaukee has so many new guys on this team. You go through, you know, how many new guys they have on the bench. Then they had PJ Tucker, they had holiday before the season. They had PJ Tucker basically midway through the season. And I don't know, Tucker against Durant in a series,

they have this whole University of Texas history. He really went at him today. Durant was still getting his points, but I feel like I might've been off on the Tucker thing being washed. I've been off on two. Cause I was definitely off on Griffin. Griffin, Griffin is way more athletic than he was three months ago. He just is like, um,

I don't think he's the asset. People thought they assumed they were getting 2014 Clippers bike. He's not, but he's somebody that could play in crunch time and try to guard Giannis, you know, which is, would you rather have him out there or Jeff green? I don't know.

At least he's a little more physical. The fact that Blake has just accepted this and he's still not that old, but that he's like, Hey, I'm going to take charges. He leads league and charge taken. He's always been a terrific passer. Glue guy break.

Yeah. Blake out of nowhere. He really is. I think it's a good reminder for all of us too. Cause at one point, PJ Tucker was last. He was like 500 break out of nowhere. He really is. I think it's a good reminder for all of us too. Because at one point, P.J. Tucker was last. He was like 500th out of 500 qualifying players in real plus minus. And he didn't want to be in Houston either, but he didn't want to be a dick about it. And he goes over to Milwaukee.

And as we, I think, have correctly pointed out, all these buyouts that everybody gets so worked up about. And then we end up with all these segments about it being unfair. you're like you know history it actually says they're really not all that impactful but we should always remind ourselves for somebody that has some kind of pedigree uh pedigree and has a competitive nature to them like a pj tucker that they can just be energized i mean batum's another one i'll stand by what i saw in the first week it looked awful i mean he wasn't even getting run with Charlotte. And now he's a legitimate rotation player for a Clippers team that keeps winning, despite their main two guys constantly missing games. So there is something to be said of somebody that, hey, do you at least care a little bit?

And Blake seriously cares enough that he's like, OK, fine. I'm not who I was, but I can still help a team, especially because I'm going to have so much space to do all this other stuff. And he's doing little things, which I think is really hard for a guy that was living in Blake's neighborhood in the NBA. The other thing with Tucker, I mean, he's played 12 games for them. He's averaging three points a game. It's not like he's, but they don't need scoring from one of the five spots. This is my issue when I look at Philly and I look at some of their lineups and what works and doesn't work for them, where it's basically like Simmons and

Tybalt are two of the best perimeter defenders in the league. They're probably two of the best five, two of the best six, whatever you say, but they can't really play them together that much. It's almost like I wish Tybalt was on his own team. I wish he was on the Celtics or whatever, where he could just be 35 minutes a game as a guy who doesn't need the ball at all. With Tucker, as long as you put the two three-point shooters with him, yeah, they could play him in crunch time. They're going to get something out of him. To me, the bigger part of that deal was just getting rid of DJ Augustine's contract,

which was, I think it was $7 million this year and $7 million next year. So at least they got out of that deal was just getting rid of DJ Augustine's contract, which was, I think it was 7 million this year and 7 million next year. So at least they got out of that way. Anyway, the Milwaukee thing, um, I think it will become a storyline over the next couple of weeks, basically what we just did. But a lot of people,

Oh, you can't forget about Milwaukee. So it's, they're not going to sneak up on people. It's not going to be a surprise, but in a playoff series, the best player usually wins if the team are close. And Giannis has a chance to be the best player in that series.

If Harden's not all the way back, and it's basically Giannis versus Durant, it's going to mirror what we saw today. Wait, wait. I mean, you don't feel like definitively Durant's still the better player than Giannis? Because I do. I think he's a better offensive player. I think Giannis is more durable.

I trust him more to be healthy for three straight playoff rounds. In a playoff series, though, defending Durant... Ceiling-wise, Durant's better. Yeah, you're helpless at moments where I think even if we're trying to be as positive as we can here about Milwaukee, we've seen too many times, too, where if he gets shut off, then what? If Durant gets shut off, hey, guess what? The possession isn't over. I may stick one in you and there's nothing you can do.

So I would take the ceiling of shot difficulty making of Durant over what Giannis' limitations. I'll go further than you. If you guaranteed me Durant's healthy for the whole playoffs, I'd take his ceiling over any player we have. I really do. I think he's running all cylinders, the best all around player in the league.

I just don't know if he can do it for two and a half straight months. Do you? History's not on his side. Certainly not. All the concern of like what he would look like and this is where you know i always kind of have fun about the percentages but i don't want to hear like maybe he's a little slower defensively but i'd imagine he's not only you know doing it on his own but with the team some self-maintenance about what he's going to be doing in the regular season here defensively because he had some moments with golden state

where defensively he was their most important defensive player. I mean, he was unbelievable. He was switching on guys. He's defending at the rim. I mean, he was really changing some things up. So, yeah, it's not a safe bet considering the durability. But I'd like to see, you know, I think once the playoffs roll around, especially those closing moments of a tight game,

I think we'll probably see him assigned to somebody defensively like we did during those Golden State days. Who would you go, this is an interesting topic, highest two-way ceiling in a playoff series right now? Because I honestly think KD might be first for me, but who is second? I guess

it's Giannis? I mean, are we not going to talk about LeBron yet? What are you doing with that LeBron guy? Embiid? Embiid's close, two-way, but... You think LeBron's two-way ceiling, you think is still the highest in the league? His ability to defend, switch,

shut down the best offensive player on another team, all that stuff. I think he's got to get some demerits on that side, at least, on the defensive side. The defensive argument for LeBron is a little complicated because the metrics for it this year is healthy. He was actually off the charts defensively. But if you're really watching, I mean, he's assigned the worst defensive player or worst offensive player to defend for a couple of years, which I always thought was smart because, hey, why are we going to have him chasing around the number one guy at this stage in his career? But I still think he's capable of doing that in some spots.

So where he still is, where I expect LeBron to be offensively, because I don't care what he looked like in that first game against the Kings. Yeah. I just, I don't think it's, I think it's really disrespectful to not mention him with this first group to be, I don't think we should be naming three or four NBA players before we mentioned LeBron. Is that fair?

Well, we did KD, Giannis. Embiid. Embid Embiid LeBron and you said Tatum for a second no I didn't say Tatum did you see LeBron's quote it kind of bummed me out where LeBron was basically like I'm never going to be 100% again did you see that I did but I also like what do you mean yeah exactly like compared to what? 10 years ago? None of us are, man. Yeah, I was telling my stepmother was here this weekend and we were driving to go pick up my son. And I was talking about how I can work in 2021

compared to like 2012, 13. And I was just like, I'm just not the same. I can't, I just can't go at that level anymore. I can get there for little peaks, but the consistency of the day after day of just putting together 16 hour days back to back to that, I can't do it anymore. You and LeBron are more alike than you guys ever realized. But when he said, I've never heard him admit defeat with his own body like that before though, where he's like, I'll never be a hundred percent again. I was like, wow.

Cause this is the guy who was like, he was like Tom, kind of like Tom Brady for basketball. Right. Like you would never hear Tom Brady say, I will never be a hundred percent again. Tom Brady is like, I've reached a higher state of being. I've ascended past humanity. And LeBron was just like, yeah, you know, you get old. It happens. It was basically how I read those quotes. I'm going to admit an observation that I've had now for a few years of LeBron on the quotes. I believe the Jordan thing has fucked with him and his team so much that they are playing this long game of positioning LeBron in every conversation for like, well, here's, you know, planting little seeds along the way. And it was something I've noticed for a few years where almost any question you ask him, he finds a way to compliment

himself, but it's about like his, his place, his legacy. And you'll just go like, you know, all right, cool, man. I get it. Like you're, you're awesome. Nobody's debating that you're awesome anymore. And then it started when he had said, you know, we've talked about this, I think a couple of times where he was like the two toughest NBA championships in NBA history, the ones that I won golden state and then in the bubble. And you were like, all right, maybe one of those. But then when he said, Hey, I'm never going to be a hundred percent again, I thought, wait, is he doing this? Because he was also talking about injury. He goes, you know, I've always wanted to come back from injury as soon as I possibly could. You know, that's just the way I'm built. And I'm like, yeah, I think a lot

of guys are that way. I mean, there's probably a few dudes in the nba that are like i'm good being hurt not playing the rest of the year like let me know april hoops i'm done but most of the great ones always want to come back so he the way he said that then to almost admit something that was was a weakness was very surprising but then i immediately my mind works where i'm going is he planting this seed to like say hey don't it was just you're right it was a weird thing and with him i always feel like every statement every answer is crafted in a way to kind of present his story um in a way that benefits him historically which again his play does well. So do you think he was trying to set up like a 1998 Michael Jordan, um, crawling to the finish line, pure guts, adrenaline. Cause I'm with you.

I think everything LeBron says is purposeful. He's not just like, Oh man, I can't believe I said that yesterday about not being a hundred percent. I, I here's the actual code of people didn't hear it. I knew I wasn't going to get back to a hundred percent. He said, talking about his ankle, it's impossible. I don't think I will ever get back to 100% in my career. It's a pretty strong statement, but if he means that Tom Brady's like, dude, TB12, you'll be a hundred percent in two weeks. Come talk to my guy, Alex. But if he means that I'm not going to be what I was at my peak, then, I mean, there's no real discussion here. Then it's a pretty obvious statement.

I'll tell you who else isn't going to be 100% for the rest of his career right after this. This episode is brought to you by Movember the mustache is back with a vengeance look at Travis Kelsey before he rocked that Super Bowl ring he rocked that super soup strainer grow a mustache for Movember you'll do great things too you won't win the Super Bowl but your fundraising will support mental health suicide prevention and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend to powers your scale with no preset spending limit.

More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days. And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. We're talking about the Lakers right before we went to that break. So they're kind of on the fringe of being in a playing game, which, you know, there's 10 games left. I don't want to panic. I don't want to do the,

Oh my God, the Lakers, they might be, but you know, as we're tap, as we're taping this on a Sunday night, it is almost 8 o'clock. They're playing Toronto right now. I'll just assume they're going to be Toronto. But there's like this little 5-6-7 log jam with the Lakers in Portland and Dallas. And where the Lakers land is a riveting playoff subplot.

Because if they go 7, we have the possibility of LA golden state at some point in a playing game, which would be fun. Maybe if they go to six or five, depending where the Clippers land, we could get LA LA round one, which is just a disaster for both sides. Right? It's like, really? It's like that year in 2015, when the Clippers ended up just playing the Spurs in round one. And we were like, wow, okay.

I guess we're going to do this now. We're getting this over with. Two of the best three teams. So they're 36 and 27 right now, depending on the results of the Toronto game. But if you look at their schedule, have you looked at their schedule the rest of the way? It's like kind of, they got Denver coming tomorrow, coming off this Toronto game.

Thursday, they're at the Clippers. Then the next day they're at Portland. They're playing Phoenix at home on Sunday. Then they play the Knicks who are going to need that game. The only easy one they have is Houston, May 12th. And then they finished at Indiana, Indiana, trying to play for playing stuff. And then at new Orleans last game of the season, which shouldn't mean anything for new Orleans, but it's certainly not an easy

slide rest away. It's a possibility they're in the playing game or a six seed. What would be the most fun place for them to land in your opinion? And who do you want them to play in round one? Was it more fun for you if they're in a playing game or is it like lakers clippers or would you rather see them against yokich no i'd rather see the clippers lakers thing in the first round because okay look in the clippers and by the way just to add to what you were saying about their schedule they have the ninth toughest schedule going going into today's action and the teams ahead of them there's only one team that's kind of in the playoff mix ahead of them and that's portland everybody else is either behind him in the west

or in the east so you could argue the lakers have the second toughest schedule out of western conference playoff contenders here looking at like how it plays out and some of the projections i was looking at this morning has the best option or you know again it depends on which one you look at but there was a strong case to be made that the best likelihood by you know again it depends on which one you look at but there was a strong case to be made that the best likelihood by projecting it out was a 3-6 matchup with clippers and the lakers you and i argued about this a few weeks ago but it was friendly argument i didn't i wasn't motherfucking either of my friends after um it was it was it was you want you were arguing hey i want them now i want to get you were arguing, Hey, I want them now.

I want to get it over with. If I'm going to have to play them and get them through. And I'm thinking no way. I mean, cause I'm thinking like Phoenix 10 years without a playoff run. And then you win the West and they're the one seat as of right now. And then the Lakers get stuck in some stupid play in game scenario. And they lose,

they lose the first one with the second, they're the eighth seed. Right. Imagine being like, all right, it's been a decade. We have Chris Paul. We feel so good about our franchise for the first time forever. And our one eight is the Lakers. Like, no, can we at least win a series and then we'll lose to them? So my argument for like a Phoenix or even the Clippers would be, can we just wait?

Can we just wait? Can we just wait? But I do think I should give more. There actually is more basketball value to what you're saying. So I've come around on it as I thought about it a little bit more. Here's why I was right. Here's why I'm going to agree with myself from three weeks ago. I watched the second half of that Kings game. The Drummond thing's going to not happen overnight with them trying to figure out how to incorporate Drummond with LeBron and Davis and everybody together with Schroeder,

with whoever the fifth guy is, all that stuff. The Lakers played without LeBron and Davis long enough that I think guys just had the ball a lot. It was a different way of playing basketball. Somebody like Schroeder was being used like he was, you know, Trey Young or something. And now it's like, all right, thanks, Dennis. Stand over there now. And Davis and LeBron are coming back from injury. And then the German thing, it's,

he's not like the easiest guy to play with, you know? And, you know, I think they're going to try to figure out over these next 10 games, what's our rotation? Who's our best five? What do we do with Harrell? What's going on with that? Gasol, are we saving him for the playoffs?

But they're just going to say no. You know what, though? I mean, we can pretend this is some sort of dilemma. They're just not going to play some of these guys in certain matchups. And that's just going to be what happens. And even though I'm not the biggest drumming guy over the years, whatever they've looked like and trying to incorporate, none of it matters because LeBron wasn't playing in any of these games. I'm actually really impressed with the Lakers and how competitive they were

and how many games they actually won with these guys missing this many games. I mean, Davis has been out forever, and he finally comes back. I mean, LeBron, that's a huge chunk of time missed for a guy like that. So to me, I was more impressed with what they actually did and not completely falling apart. I think it speaks to Vogel. I think it sometimes speaks to a standard that you

want to keep, knowing that you're supposed to be a little bit more competitive for when the big guns come back, where if they had different jerseys on with a different organization, I actually think they have a worse record. Maybe that sounds stupid, but I do think that that can be real at times, and it's real with the Lakers. So to judge Drummond without LeBron, I see you're not wrong on what you saw because I'm with you, but it just doesn't, none of it matters because if we learned anything from last year, writing off Dwight, it was a

mistake because Dwight with LeBron is free money, even JaVale, and having big guys running free. And that's why, as much as I love this Phoenix story, I like Phoenix against Utah. I hate Phoenix's front line against the Lakers in a playoff series. You can't talk me into it. I'm with you. The German thing, who are the best players he's ever played with? Like one year, Blake Griffin, basically, that last good Pistons-Blake Griffin thing. He's had the ball a lot. He's playing for a new contract.

They're trying to shoehorn him into that Dwight JaVale type of thing. But, you know, I just think they're going to need these next 10 games to kind of figure out what are their best lineups. Whereas some of these other teams, like Phoenix, Phoenix knows who they are. That team started out eight and eight. I think they're 37 and 10 since that team, they know every single lineup they have, all the guys that have been playing together all year and they know who they are. And the

Lakers not positive. They know who they are yet, but that's why I have the last 10 games. I want to do scariest first round exits, aka who is hitting the panic button the hardest if all of a sudden they're out in round one. And I have three teams marked down. And I'm going to do them in descending order based on how big the panic I think will be. And then you can, if your team's missing out of that top three, we can talk about that after.

But my three in order, the gold medalist is Portland. The silver medalist is the Clippers. And the bronze medalist is Boston. And I'm talking about, we get bounced in round one. Holy shit. Now what do we do? We've already done this, this, this, this, and this, and now we're going home. What's our move?

We got to make a move. The owner going the hell, what are we doing? I thought blah, blah, blah. So here's the case for Portland. Uh, Portland did beat the Celtics today 71-67 this season and last season combined they've made 7 straight playoffs including the 2019 West Finals they made 2 second rounds Lillard is 30, CJ is 29 they traded Trevor Ariza the 16th pick in the 2020 draft

when there were some good players left and then a top 14 protected 2021 pick for Covington. They traded Gary Trent for Powell's basically expiring because he's hitting free agency. They gave Rodney Hood two for 20. They gave Derek Jones two for 20. They threw money away on Harry Giles. They did an Enos Cantor thing, which has actually worked, and they rolled the dice with Carmelo,

and so far that's been okay. But my point is, they don't really have any moves left. And if this is a first round and out, based on all the moves they've done, then you have the Chris Haynes piece on Friday. There's denials all over the place that that came from Dame,

but Chris Haynes, I think, has a pretty good feel over the place that that came from Dame, but Chris Haynes, I think has a pretty good feel for Portland. Dame has always done the, I'm a good soldier. I want to retire here thing. I guess my question is, A, what's your move if you could just get shellacked in round one and get sent packing? What do you do? I don't know if you can run back the same team again, but you don't really know what the next move is. And then B, if you're just going down the line of what West Nucleus is, I would rather have, can we play that game right now

before you give your Portland take? Yeah. West Nucleus is you would rather have than Portland. I'm just going to give you each team and you just tell me yes or no I'd rather have Portland or I'd rather have this team would you rather have Phoenix next five years or Portland next five years I actually probably rather have Portland's okay because I mean that's so you'd rather have the Booker Aiton and uh you I like Aiton Zephyr Aiton's not gonna be a star okay

he I love I love some of the stuff he does and how hard he tries, but to me, it's pretty clear. I think he's going to be a good, not great center. Utah? Lillard's probably thought of as better than Mitchell, but I like the way Utah's core is, except who's the third guy? Because in the next five years, it's, say, Conley.

So I think that one's really close. I think there's an argument for Portland there still because Lillard is better than all the guys we're talking about in Utah. All right. I'm going Phoenix, Utah for both.

Denver. Wait a minute. Why are you saying Phoenix? You're saying Bridges, Aiton, Booker next five years over older Dame and CJ? I get two more years of Chris and I have a team that's just better. At least short term,

I have a team that has a chance to compete for the finals this year, next year, maybe the year after that. Portland, I'm not competing for the finals any year. What's my move? I feel like they kind of had their moment. When you said five years,

you're saying two years then. I mean, two years is a different conversation. I guess, I don't know. All right, two years is a different conversation. I guess. All right. Let's say four. All right. Four. Now I change everything. I never really quite understood.

I thought Portland playing in the Western Conference Finals and they got swept by Golden State even without Durant. I mean, one of those games looked like they were trying to lose it. But I feel like I've always said this, but it's a lot like the lot like the jets making the AFC title game with Mark Sanchez, a couple of years where you go, that's cool. You guys played in that game, but it's not really, you weren't an actual team that we thought was going to win the title. Yeah. So, you know, Portland doesn't defend, they lose to the good teams.

But this is why I would take Phoenix over them because even if it's just this year, next year, and then I don't know what happens. I still actually have a chance to win the title with this Phoenix team. Whereas with Portland, I'm not sure there's any scenario where I can even make the finals with the team they have. All these teams, all the teams in the West coming into today because they'll get another one,

but in Portland's eighth in the West against teams 500 or better, they're at 38% on those games. That's one of those deals. We start looking at these playoff matches. I'm like, did you guys beat anybody good? I know this year is weird, but Portland doesn't beat anybody good. How many times have you seen them against a good offensive team in the fourth quarter where you go, they can't do anything.

They can't stop anybody. They shot the hell out of the ball against Boston today. Boston has its own issues. Boston shot the hell out of the ball too. It was just Portland shot the hell out of the ball against Boston today. All right. And Boston has its own issues. And Boston shot the hell out of the ball too. It was just Portland shot. They were combined. They were combined 22 or 37 in the first half. If anybody watched that first half,

I'm not telling you to go back. I mean, it was 71 a piece of the half. It was absurd. Nobody missed from like the first few minutes on until halftime. Nobody missed. And then, you know,

Portland figured it out, which is probably more of a reflection of Boston. I guess I just didn't. There's you're right about what do we do now but I also think you have to judge the panic based on what your expectations were and there's far bigger expectations for Milwaukee the Clippers and I would say even Boston coming in than the Trailblazers unless more people like Portland than I did. Portland and Boston are mirror images of each other. Very good offensive on paper teams. Super disappointing. I don't trust

either of them. Quickly, would you rather be Denver or Portland? Denver. Clippers? As weird as it is with the Kawhi stuff, I'll take them and I'll trade Paul George. I agree on both. Lakers? I'd rather be the Lakers. Lakers because I have Anthony Davis. I'd trade Paul George I agree on both Lakers because I have Anthony Davis

I'd rather have him than either guard Dallas I'd rather have Luca than any Portland situation agreed Memphis I can't figure them out I can't because some nights I really love them you know what I love about them is they fight

they're a fighting team you know what i mean they really do reflect as much as we laugh about the heat culture thing i think there's a memphis thing i think that grind shit is is real with them and jaw kind of sets the tone but i also think there are times with jaw where i'm like god he's amazing then other times i'm like is he not amazing but jaron's back and you know Brooks can drive you crazy at times Jonas has been terrific so I I don't know I don't know that I'm gonna pick to me that's a wash yeah I think I'd rather have Dane than anybody I'm Dane Dane's breaking a lot of ties if it's a tie yeah uh Golden State I'd rather have Curry and Clay and the Wiseman trade and that Minnesota pick. Spurs, rather have Portland.

New Orleans, I'd rather have Zion, obviously. And then the last four. My point is, they might have... Cap, Russell, and Ant Edwards? Yeah, I'd rather have Dave Miller. I don't know what Portland's move is, I guess is my point. So from a panic button standpoint, that's the one where it just gets dark.

Like Boston can at least be like when they get bounced in the first round, which they will, they can at least go, well, we have Tatum and Brown. Neesmith looks good. Pritchard, we have a nucleus. If we can get Kemba right, we'll trade smart. Like there are moves. What's Portland's move? Like how many times can Covington get traded for first round picks before people start going, wait are moves. What's Portland's move? Like, how many times can Covington get traded for first-round picks

before people start going, wait a second, why is this guy being passed around like a Yankee Christmas swap? Are they going to pay Powell $20 million a year? Is he the oven mitt of the NBA? He's the snow globe. Is Nurkic ever going to be healthy? Anyway, I have Portland 1. Clippers are an obvious two to me,

except I don't know what the panic button move for them is, except for the Paul George trade that we all know will happen if they lose in round one. I mean, he'll get traded. So it's like a panic move, but at the same time, there's no other move. They have... Did you see their... If you look at their style,

guess what they have on their books next year assuming Kawhi opts in or gets a giant extension. Although the George, is it like 138 or something? It's 150 on the books next year. And that's without filling out the rest of their entire roster yet. They have 150 million committed already, including the Kawhi thing. 2023, it's 82 without Kawhi. 2024, 77.5. They're paying Beverly 14.3 next year, which is a disaster. They're paying

Kennard 40.2 through 2024. They're paying Morris 49.1 through 2024. And Rondo and Zubach get 15.8 combined next year. Plus, Ibaka's at like 10 next year. I guess Paul George would be the panic move. But I can't believe you're talking about the Lakers earlier when I go without those guys. I'm impressed that they hovered around the record they had. Whenever I do any Clippers game or I'll go, okay, get caught up in what they've been doing. They shoot the hell out of the basketball.

They're like a 42% going into the games. Amazing three-point team. And they've somehow created some depth on the fly. You know, Terrence Mann has been a guy for them. Yeah. They've had, I mean, I have it here because I went through and counted how many, I know we're going to do all NBA teams a little bit later because it's brutal trying to figure it out.

And I have how many games everybody's missed. But Kawhi's missed 18. George's missed 16. And they have an unbelievable record. They still have amazing statistics. They beat really good teams. And then the Clippers will have like... It's kind of like my Monday night football quarterback theory

where if you have an awful game on Monday night football, it's like having a terrible season. Because if it's your only Monday night game and then you suck, then all the shows on Tuesday have no other games to talk about. And then you're just going like, I don't think this guy can get it done. And conversely, if you have a great game where Geno Smith had like one really nice Monday night game, you're like, hey, they found their guy. I think they found their guy. And then the perception of you changes. So the Clippers will have some of these absolute duds nationally and then you'll think man i can't buy into that team and then you look at their numbers and their record and what

they're doing even without their studs and you go they just keep beating everybody for the most part other than what i think and just to throw it out there to me yokich locked up mvp against the clippers last night i'm the i he locked it up for me two weeks ago. The whole thing was stupid. There's no debate anymore. They're still winning without Murray. They had a catastrophic injury, and they fucking kept going. And you know what the most important thing is here?

He's played all 64. I don't want to hold games against somebody else who maybe was having a better run than him, but it's hard to argue somebody's been better than him, and then to do this without Murray and to watch him and to watch him dictate every successful possession, the way he is in control of things and beat a good Clippers team. He was, he was a stud in that game for them last night. And I don't, I don't really think the debate is even open anymore. I felt like it was closed already, but he makes you win. He makes

everybody better. I just felt like he's having a transcendent offensive season. He's played every game. He's incredibly valuable, and they're going to be a top three seed. What the fuck else do you want? The fact that people are arguing this is insane. Right. It's insane now because the Murray part to go, what, nine

and one, or is it ten and one now? I forget. With the clips, the Paul George panic move would be the obvious move, but man, that, that not getting SG putting SGA in that Paul George trade. Just, I know they had to do it, but it just hurts. And then you look at their first, where they don't have first and 22, 24, 26, they got pick swaps and 23 and 25. So I don't even know what their moves are. You'd think they would be number one for panic, but I don't even know how they panic

other than being like, who wants Paul George? And then my third team was the Celtics just because they made three conference finals in four years, but the Kemba contract and the fact that he just doesn't seem like he's going to be durable for the rest of his career combined with, you know, the nucleus does totally work. The Tatum-Brown thing is such a nice thing to have. It's like the Zion Ingram thing.

You look at it on paper, you're like, wow, look at those two guys together. Oh, my God. 52 points a game combined. That's amazing. And then you watch it and you're like, eh, what are the right three players to go with these guys? I think from a panic button standpoint, there's going to be a great reckoning

in this organization if they get bounced in round one. When you think of all the great picks they've had, the fact that they have two potential NBA guys under the age of 24 in their team. They've had a lot of swings at the pinata here. And I really want to know, going forward, who's going to be calling the shots

if this team gets bounced in round one? Because I think there will be a change. And I say that in a way... You're talking Ainge, Brad? No, it won't be Brad. I think there's going to be a change organizationally if they get bounced in a way. You're talking age, Brad? No, it won't be Brad. I think there's going to be a change organizationally if they get bounced around one. And don't aggregate this.

I have no inside info. Do not do a whole thing. I'm not doing that. They've had the same regime since 2005. And at some point, you got to look at it. And unless it's Belichick and you can point to six Super Bowl rings, at some point, you just got to look at it and And unless it's Belichick and you can point to six Super Bowl rings, at some point, you just got to look at it and go, all right,

do we need a new voice? Do we need a new direction? What are we doing wrong? And I just think the Celtics are heading toward that point. Some of their strategies just haven't worked. They've accumulated all of these young guys, and it just hasn't totally worked. And now they've kind of missed their window,

which was my fear last year in the bubble. I think they've missed their window. I don't like when the Eastern Conference Finals losses are held against them, though, because really, other than last year, I think it was kind of fluky they were even in them. True. But then again, you should be like,

well, wait a minute, should we give them credit for exceeding? Because I felt like they've exceeded expectations more years than they have. And because I've always been kind of surprised, like, oh, my God, they're in game seven against Cleveland, LeBron. Like, how the hell did that happen? I mean, how the hell did they end up when they got smoked with Isaiah Thomas group? Like, that's what should have happened. That's one of the worst one seeds we've ever had in the NBA.

So if you're telling me, though, because of all of that and there's time to make a change, I'm not going to sit here and argue because I'm just, you know, you look at, they had a Denver win, which was weird because it was Denver playing the worst basketball. They played all season for like a long stretch and it just got ugly. It was the 31 to three run by Boston.

And even the announcers who I like for Denver were going, I mean, Scott Hastings. I know you remember him. He's like, man, that's going to be the worst 10 minutes of Nuggets ball we've seen all year. And when you're watching it, you're like, this is atrocious. They're just giving the ball back to them. So then if you're on the Boston side of it, you're like, hey, win at Denver.

Really good team. Things are going to change. You're the only team that lost to the Thunder in forever. The Thunder don't want to win anything. They lost by 60 the other night to the Pacers, and the Celtics lost to them. So then you're down 30 to the Spurs, and you just go, okay, I guess this is over.

Now it's over, over, and they show fight. Tatum gets 60. There's a look that Tatum had that I don't even know. And I'm a huge Tatum guy that I'm used to even seeing from him. Agreed. And then you watch the game today and you go, are they going to build off of this? You're like, nope.

Because you're right. I think all of us that watch him all the time, because I do, because I like talking about my pops, the Brown-Tatum thing, they don't play with each other. And Kemba being in and out of the lineup's a mess. You know what was the craziest thing about the comeback against San Antonio?

That's one of the best stretches of basketball I've seen in a tight game from Marcus Smart in his entire career. You want to know why? Because he just played. He wasn't doing his bullshit.

He wasn't doing his thing where he's like, hey, I've been left out a few possessions, so now I'm going to force a shot. He was actually playing and getting other guys involved and staying locked in.

And then what happened today? And then he decides, because he's pissed off about something, to flop in a charge against Nurkic, where he punches Nurkic in the balls and then gets ejected in an absolutely huge moment in the game where they needed him out there because there's no Kemba. And look, if Marcus isn't back next year, I wouldn't be shocked at all.

I know he's been offered, but it'd be offered for stuff to improve Boston. So, and I haven't heard that from Boston. I've heard it from other teams. He's expiring contract next year. Right. And, you know, Marcus can add something to some, but he, he's so hot and cold. I don't want to hear about his stats. I don't want to hear about Tommy point.

I don't want to hear any of that stuff. If you actually watch all these games, he has these moments where he's deciding that his deal is more important than everybody else's deal, and it takes away from it. He is not even close to being the only guy to blame throughout all the struggles of this season. I guess I'm still

a little surprised. I guess I'd be a little surprised if it were an Ainge thing or a Stevens thing because I still think everybody is frustrated as they are. It won't be a Stevens thing. They just re-signed him. It could be an Ainge ascending to a higher level and becoming like, you know, not the guy who calls the shots, but above.

Maybe he gets promoted. I don't know. Yeah, that's one of those weird deals. You get promoted to not do the job anymore. Less power. The Brown Tatum point you made was a really important one because I think they're really, really, really, really good assets and valuable players.

And the playoff reps they've gotten, I love Tatum. The stuff he did in that Spurs game ranked among some of the best offensive play I've seen from a Celtic. I mean, he's 60 points. I only made five threes, zero turnovers, 98 touches. He was amazing in that game. So I'm not dissing those guys at all. I just, I'm not sure they make anyone else better, which is fine because we have a lot of, uh, really, really good NBA players who don't make any other guys better on their team. Um, but I think Neesmith is an important kind of thing to mention when you talk

about those two guys. Neesmith out of nowhere, out of nowhere did a 180 and has become an asset and has become like the kind of guy I love, like my guy, like where he's just hustling his ass off. He's jumping passing lanes, offensive rebounds. They just tell him, go to the left corner, Tatum or Brown are shooting. You're going to be over there. And he still is figuring out ways to be involved.

And I guess what's frustrating about this team to me is it's like, I want to see more from Neesmith. I was texting you in house. Like, can we run a play for him? Can I see what it's like when he has the ball and somebody sends him a pick? They ran an out-of-time out for him today. It's like, cool, more.

Like, we actually need this guy. But Tatanian and Brown, they just monopolize the offense in a way that I really don't think is healthy. And then Kemba can break into it when he's healthy because they'll at least run some action for him. Smart will grab plays, but nobody else in the team is involved. And I think that's fundamentally the issue with the team other than that defensively they can just be complete dog

shit watching knee smith have a light go on that was not there for months unbelievable um in he's his aggressiveness his confidence i mean this is somebody i think he went 12 games on a free throw attempt because he just was like oh the ball like what the hell am i supposed to do this and i was kind of like look he may not be good but at least at vanderbilt like they had to ask him so many times to bail him out of offensive possession so it's like look it's not like we're throwing the ball to a center here asking you to figure something out five seconds less than the shot like you actually had to dribble drive and create and save possessions in college and it looks like you don't even feel comfortable touching the basketball and it started with hustle plays and aggressiveness.

And then everything followed after. I got to imagine this is like you watching your child throw away a piece of litter at the park by themselves. Like you're in the car. Honestly, it's like watching your kid gain confidence like in anything where you're just like, oh my God, the light bulb's going off. This is so adorable.

He's like, Ben's like a real person. Oh my God, look at you, just shook somebody's hand. Neesmith, I'm all in on. He was running around like a chicken with his head cut off for four months, and then something happened. He just, the pace of the game, he adjusted to it, and he's a real asset. So anyway, from a panic button standpoint, I just think

if they get bounced in round one with the salary bill that they're going to have next year, something will happen. But the Kemba deal, I mean, organizationally, smart trade, something will happen. I don't know that Kemba, I mean, if he's $36 million next year,

$37.6 player option two years from now. There's no worse playoff loss in the first round than the Clippers losing in a 3-6 matchup to the Lakers. Even though it's a better team and you're like, this sucks. That's the one. But they just remember, like, we did a pretty good job on the Clippers' obituary the previous season. I mean, that place was pretty intense.

You know, they just, Doc lost his job because of that series. Right. So, you know, Ballmer's not going to sit around. You meant last panic button team, you mentioned the Bucs. Yeah, they panicked, but I don't know what the move would be because Holiday and Middleton and Giannis are there. I mean, they're really firing

Budenholzer would be the only panic move you could make. They're not trading one of those three guys. So that would be it. Let's take a break. We have a lot more to cover. So we're at the point of the season where you can go on ESPN or basketball reference and just look at stats and be like, wait, what? There's a lot of wait, what going on?

I'm just going to give you a couple of things that made me go, wait, what? First of all, Russell Westbrook is now at 22, 11 and 11. He's first in assists. He's going to win the assist title and he's seventh in rebounding. Now, we know that he's been playing well for two plus months here, but it's just, if you would just show me these numbers four months ago,

I would have, House and I were doing, did a podcast about like, this guy's damaged goods. The Wizards got screwed. He's so not damaged goods athletically he looks the way he did in like 2014-15 rage does that get a weight what from you that he's first in assisted seventh and rebounds i seem to catch them enough that i knew

i knew what he was doing okay but you know this isn't that's not the westbrook story the story is the little things like at the end of the Dallas game. I don't know what the hell they were doing when they were trying to send Doncic right, but they sent him right to an elbow with no one there. I mean, they had two people staggered to shade him. Excuse me, they were sending him left, left elbow. They didn't want him to go right. And they turned, and there was no one else there.

And then on the hardaway three, they got away from them, and then Westbrook was losing his mind. So that's the only way I really judge westbrook anymore it's like all those little moments that get missed in the triple double stuff like what are you doing to some of those now the hardaway three wasn't on him but he was mad about something else he was so mad about the donchic elbow that as he was bringing the ball up he was yelling at the sideline because obviously they were getting mad at him for however he routed it but i don't know again i don't know what the rules were and how they were trying to do that yeah i also thought it was funny too that he was like no everybody said triple doubles were great and still i started doing them and then i'm like all right

well no it's because you lose in the first round man i mean that's why people were off of you after a while because then they started paying a little bit more attention to how the triple doubles work because none of you guys are saying that about oscar robertson when in fact anyone that's looked up any of the oscar robertson triple double stuff historically you're like actually it's not as impressive as you would think because they took a million shots back then so um he has a big persecution complex most of the stars do but he has gone from i thought it was borderline disastrous as you and house to the beginning of the year to he's out there competing the teams better and even though there's going to be decisions there that drive me nuts from him it's a i've you know you take And even though there's going to be decisions there that drive me nuts from him,

you take this seven days a week compared to what you were getting at the beginning of the year with the Wizards. Fair? Yeah, his first 46 minutes are really high level. And the last two, I just assume he's going to do something dumb that will potentially cost us the game. That's where I am with him as a player. I did not think he would be able to put the kind of production, physicality,

athleticism at this point. I mean, he's been in the league since 2008. Think about the other guys from that class. The Kevin love is basically on his way out of the league. You know, he was in there. Um,

Derek Rose. It's been on how many teams? Seven. You go on down the line, it's like, and Westbrook athletically seems like he's still flying around and stuff. To me, it's like the perfect storm would be Stan Van Gundy coaching Russell Westbrook

in the last two minutes of a game. I don't know what would happen, but I know they would lose. Zion is now at 27, 7, and 4, and he's still shooting 62%. And he's hit the point where if he doesn't have 30 in a game, you assume he got in foul

trouble. He's completely unstoppable. And they're playing Golden State tomorrow and Tuesday and Golden State is pretty small. And if you're a rookie card person, I would buy Zion rookie cards.

I mean, they're pretty high already, but I would buy them before he has like 55 against Golden State on Monday or Tuesday because I think there's an unbelievable Zion offensive game that has not happened this year that I feel like could be brewing in one of those Warriors games. But I know he's your favorite and I don't need to get you to talk about Zion. No, I mean, 37 overtime win against Minnesota. Like I just, whenever there's a spare TV, it's

what are the Pelicans doing? And I don't even care what the score is because I just, no one has figured it out yet. No one has figured out. Teams have tried all sorts of stuff with it and none of it really works. Head of steam Zion, nobody knows what to do. You're not going to take a charge. He's still quick enough side to side and he gets compact. You know, we used to think, which was fair

because it's a hype business, but you'd go, you know, is he actually like six, five? Now it's like, hey, this is amazing you know is he actually like six five now it's like hey this is amazing he he gets low to the ground before he explodes so there's not he's not like longer like some of these other ball handlers like the fact that durant can do what he can do with the ball at his height in traffic you know with people around him because usually when you're that tall even if you have a nice handle you go there's just too much there's just too much space for the ball like you're going to get people swatting at it and stuff.

Zion's so compact. And what I love now is putting it on the visitor announcers who, you know, when you're, when you're calling games all season, you don't get a chance to really watch as many other teams. So the first time the announcers get to see the Zion deal in person and they're just going like, Ooh, you know, you can, you can prep with the media notes, but it's a whole nother deal experiencing it knowing that, all right, you know, let's do this. Let's double, let's, let's pick them up three quarters court. Let's do that. And so, you know, point Zion for two, three months now is like, there's nothing else I can add to this. Cause I've been saying that with you for months now, I'm dying to see him in person. I cannot believe I have not seen him in person yet.

It's my number one draft pick of anyone I want to see in person in any sport. You, me, private jet, your tab, to New Orleans. I'll get us the tickets. You get us the jet. I'll get us the tickets. I want to see him, you know, because you never know with this stuff. Like somebody, you can get hurt. All of a sudden, you get a meniscus.

I don't want to jinx it. I'm going to knock him with. But I just want to see it while he's like this, you know? I feel like I've seen every great offensive player at this early stage of their life when they're just like on raw athletic ability. They're completely unstoppable. There's so much that he doesn't know about basketball yet, and he's still unstoppable. I don't know if he's with any teammate

that he should be with three years from now. Like, not one. You go on down the line, I'm like, does it make sense for him and Brandon Ingram to be on the same team? I'm leaning toward no. I would actually rather they weren't on the same team. Any guard that they have? Eh.

Steven Adams? No. Lonzo's fine with him. I guess, but it just seems like Lonzo's going to be off that team. Right? It just seems like he's leaving. And Jackson Hayes, who I thought was just, it wasn't going to happen for him, has had far more

moments in the second half of the season. Maybe it'll be Jackson Hayes. You would need somebody big, and I'm not saying Jackson's like, hey, this I thought was just, it wasn't going to happen for him, has had far more moments in the second half of the season. Maybe it'll be Jackson Hayes. You would need somebody big, and I'm not saying Jackson's like, hey, this guy's a stud and going to get an awesome second contract, but you would need to protect Zion long-term. You would need some kind of rim-protecting spacing offensive five. You know what I mean? Well, yeah, it's almost like a bitch.

You need healthy Przingis. Oh, God. What do you think Colin Sexton is averaging points per game this year? Is it like 24? 24.4 points a game. Colin Sexton. Did you read that article? Which one?

There was an article today that said teammates were getting pissed about sexton's approach to the game and guys defending them would be like you know he's not going to fucking pass it to you why why are you like so the opponents are making fun of the teammates by going why are you getting ready for pass? He's not going to. I don't know why they let Kevin Porter leave. I do. What do you mean you don't know? No, no, no. But I just like they suck anyway. Why are you

just getting rid of a guy? What is he? Hurt your playoff run? Just keep him. I'll tell you. I got to admit when he was trending, I was like, oh, no. I was like, oh, 50. It's like we should do an all-NBA team for he's trending. Oh, no.

Oh, I hope everything's okay. Oh, he's going for 40. That's much better. Yeah. I saw him in person as a rookie when I went back to see a Boston-Cleveland game. And it was like one of those really like wow that guy's kind of going wherever he wants to go with the ball there's no deny I mean look when you watch

him at USC you go that's an NBA score right there yeah there's no question the problem is everything else yes everything else CP3 is P36 this year 18 and 10 his career per 36 is 19 and 10

his percentages this year 49 38 92 his career is 47 18 and 10. His career per 36 is 19 and 10. His percentages this year, 49, 38, 92. His career is 47, 37, 87. You could make the case he's having a slightly better year than the average Chris Paul year. Is this going to allow me to have the floor

for about a minute here then? Is this you teeing this up? You want to do Chris Paul now or you want to save it for the... Can I give you a couple more appetizer stats and then we'll do Chris? Yes, please. No problem. Jason Tatum post-All-Star is basically 29-8-4. So he's doing it again what he started to do last year before he got hurt. There's a realistic chance he might be a 30-point-a-game scorer one of these seasons. If he puts the free throws together, he's going to get be a 30 point a game score or one of these seasons.

If he puts the free throws together, he's going to get 30 a game. Now it depends on who his teammates are. Be honest. Were you happy that the end one was called on the floor? So he got two free throws instead of the end one, and then was going to have 61 points. Did you want Tatum to have 61 and,

and beat bird? Or do you like it better that he's tied with bird? So my dad was here this weekend and we were watching. And your dad's rooting for Tatum to miss. We weren't rooting against Tatum. We were rooting for them to share the record, which was how it played out. Did not want him to get 61.

The 60 in new Orleans is iconic. Like I won't be telling my grandkids about Tatum 60, but birds bird 60 is in the running for me telling my grandkids about where I was, what I watched that game, the Hawks cheering him on the bench, all that stuff. This Tatum thing was, you know, it was incredible offensively. But yeah, I wanted him to share it. And by the way, 60 this year is a little easier than 60.

60 in OT is a little easier than it was historically. If we're going to learn anything from this season, this version of an NBA season, is that offense is not exactly hard to come by. Butler's last 41 games, 22-7-7, 50% field goal, 8.4 free throw attempts. He's sixth in PER in the NBA, and that's from a guy who can't shoot it. He used to maybe make you honest. He was a 24% from three last year.

He's a 20% from three. Not like he takes a ton, but the assists are up. He makes his free throws. The boards are there, and the efficiency stuff is incredible. So when you were asking me to put together the all-NBA stuff, I went into it being like, well, would I vote for Butler? And now I'm like, yeah, I think I... He's 48 to 65 for game split.

So if he can play the rest of the season, he'll be in the mid-50s, which makes it reasonable to have an all NBA discussion. And as the teaser of the all NBA thing, if we do much of it, we can do it again later. If you're going to go, oh, this guy missed 15 games okay well then good luck filling out three teams without without guys that have missed more than double digit games

all right let's do Chris Paul so this is your year 16 we did a book of basketball podcast about Chris Paul that I would urge people to listen to if they haven't heard it yet heading into this season, 10 All-Stars. He made

it his 11th. 15 to 16 quality. Really only had one bum year. First All-NBA three times. Second, four times. Third, one time. He will be either first or second All-NBA this year, right? I don't know where he ends up, but he'll be one or two.

I can't imagine he falls to 13. No, I don't think so. Whether Luka's a guard or not, I still feel like Paul's one of the four guards. It's probably four for two on the guards for first team. It's Luka, it's Steph, it's Paul, and it's Dane. Yes, probably in that order too. So he's going to be, so after the season,

he'll be first three times, second five times, which is really crazy. That means I was a top 10 NBA player for eight seasons. That's way up there with, you know, you're, you're talking some major dudes.

Um, we did this on the book of basketball pot. I'm gonna do it again. The year 14 or later, just guards who averaged 15 points and six assists a game. And the list was 2010 Nash, 1974 Lenny Wilkins,

1974 Jerry West, and then Kyle Lauer did it last year. He's about to do it again. Paul's done it for three straight years. 16 and eight, 18 and 9, 16 and 9. And yet here we are again with people like, oh my God, Chris Paul's actually good. Yeah, that's

where, like, look, I need a restraining order on me when it's Chris Paul time, Steph Curry time. Hey, first round quarterbacks are bust. Okay, we're still, we get it. Hey, you know, I'm moving new and I'm out of college. How do long distance relationships work out, Ryan? Can you help me?

Like, I get it. I get the easy things that make fun of me when it comes to like, I'm annoying about the Chris Paul thing. But when I'm at home watching a Chris Paul game and everybody's like 16 years in, be like, you know who's good? You know who's been really good?

It's Chris Paul. Like, it's this new discovery. I don't get it. I don't. So it's like new discovery. I don't get it. I don't. So it's like, wait, now, now you're figuring it out. That's what I don't understand. I actually, I tried to figure out all the times we've celebrated Chris Paul with this belated epiphany that Chris Paul is awesome.

It was nine different times. 2006, Marvin Williams gets drafted over him. People like us were like, wait a second, Chris Paul's going to be an unbelievable pro. Darren Williams is going to go over him? What's happening?

Chris is awesome. That's the first time we celebrated Chris Paul. Second time was the Pelicans when he was in the MVP discussion. And that from a league pass kind of people watching just how fun that team was with Chandler. And then they go to the playoffs. He has

an awesome series against the Spurs. Where it's basically like he's going against the defending champ. The Spurs. 08 Spurs. And he's three years into the league. And that team was not. Def 08 Spurs. And he's three years into the league. And that team was not... Defending champ Spurs. And he's toe-to-toe with them.

All right, so that's the second time. Third time was when he's going to get traded in 2011 after the lockout. When he's about to go to the Lakers, gets canceled, ends up in the Clippers. Everyone goes nuts. But then we actually got to watch Chris Paul

with Blake and DeAndre. And he's that first season with him where it was like, oh my God, I include myself. Cause I was going to some of those games and I wrote a glowing piece about him at some point where I'm like, this guy's fucking amazing. Like, I just can't believe all of these little things he does. It was such a delight to go and see him. Fourth time was the 2014 Clips when they really seemed like they were going to... I'm going before the playoffs.

But heading toward it, it really seemed like, all right, you can actually have a championship team if Chris Paul is your best guy. Fifth time was the 2015 Spurs series when he hits the game winner. And he took the big monkey off his back. Chris Paul can't do it.

Little did we know they were going to fold against Houston. I was packing on Mayweather too because I was in the bowels of ESPN working that night and all the guys had it on the big screen. And I was like, all right, this is cool and all. And I was so happy. Like I was doing it and people, this is cool and all. And I was so happy. I was doing it. And people were like, why do you care about Chris Paul so much?

And I was like, because of you. You fucking guys. Kimmel still. Kimmel. Everyone went to Pacquiao Mayweather. And I didn't go because it was going to be game seven. And he couldn't believe it. He's like, really?

You're going to miss this fight? And I'm like, I love nothing more than NBA Game 7s. That's the top for me. If it's two really good teams and there's real stakes, that's where I want to be over any. Give me any other sporting event. I want to be in the house. Especially with those teams because the Spurs blew like a late game to

the Nuggets and then you go, you guys didn't take care of your shit. Now you have to play as a sixth seed against the Clippers. It was a weird, it was almost like when Belichick, like, why are you blowing the last regular season game where now you're going to end up in Denver?

Why would you do that? And yeah, Popovich Belichick. There you go. Three more Chris Paul celebrations, 2018 Houston. They win 67 games. Everybody's like,

Oh my God, Chris Paul. I can't believe you figured out how to be a company and got a hardened 2020 last year with OKC. And now this year with Phoenix. So that's nine. He's like, oh my God, Chris Paul, I can't believe you figured out how to be a company and got a Harden. 2020 last year with OKC and now this year with Phoenix. So that's nine. That's nine times we've done this with Chris Paul that I can remember. There might have been other times.

Okay, but the 3-1 lead thing, when they blew that, that was disastrous because it changed. It changed. Like then Paul was a loser. And I also think there was so much anti-Clipper stuff going on because they were a pretty unlikable group from just a basketball standpoint. Because, you know, I love Doc. Doc complains all the time. So you had Doc complaining all the time.

Blake complains all the time. Chris complains all the time. Austin complains all the time. So you had Doc complaining all the time. Blake complains all the time. Chris complains all the time. Austin complains all the time. So they had beef with Portland. They had beef with Golden State. They had beef with Houston. So this Clippers team that was talking a lot and we knew they were good. And then Doc didn't do him set up plenty favors. And he was like, well, Golden State is basically just lucky because they're more healthier and the rest of us aren't. So that pissed people off. So I think that whole Clippers group went from like fun LA team

to just NBA disliked and because they blew that 3-1 lead to Houston, which they deserve to get all sorts of shit for still coming off the heels of OKC the year before. Right. I think all of that stuff. You're right. You're right. Because he had those bad possessions late where one he turned it out one over one of the turnovers is terrible the

other turnover just kind of gets added to the other one or i didn't think it was nearly as bad but i sound like i'm just defending him great addition to it there was a very quick amount of time that all of a sudden people were like ah fuck this guy and i'd still be like wait what are you guys talking about like he's awesome and then you know the year they win 65 he doesn't play because the hamstring thing and then the team misses 27 threes all that stuff so it was almost like that was so damaging to his his q rating yeah that that's why now after oklahoma city where i know firsthand like billy donovan was like hey chris we're gonna do you a favor we're gonna keep you rested we're gonna trade you at some point. We're going to do this, do that. And Paul's like, nah, fuck that.

Like, I'm here. I'm good to go. I'm playing. And they were like, well. And he's like, nah, like I'm playing. And Donovan's like, okay. And they go to game seven with Houston. That team wasn't very good.

They must beat Houston. Yeah. So that book of basketball pod we did, we basically spelled out the conundrum of Chris Paul's career. It was just this unbelievable point guard. All the gifts you could ever want. The consistency, the efficiency, everything. And neither of us wanted to hang the playoff stuff on him, but it's impossible not to.

It just is. There was too many of them. The fact that he never made the finals and then this whole little thing about the little man in NBA playoffs, how rare it is for a team built around a guard to actually succeed for four straight rounds. Isaiah was able to pull it off.

Curry, who's 6'3", but still was able to pull it off. And Chris was just never able to pull it off. And it who's 6'3", but still was able to pull it off. And Chris was just never able to pull it off. And it's like, look, sometimes this sucks, but this is the way it works out. You're going to retire and it'll be like, Chris Paul, unbelievable point guard, never made the finals. And that's just one of the things we're going to remember.

He has a chance to potentially change this in the playoffs. He might get some help with LA versus LA, right? If those two, if that happens in round one and it's just like, all right, cross off one of those two teams. If they get the one seed and they get to play

whoever and they basically get a free round, no Jamal Murray and Denver. There is a path. If it's Phoenix, Utah in the conference finals, they could absolutely beat Utah. I think they could be. I like them against Utah.

When you watch them play against Utah, they're 100%. And I know Mitchell didn't play in the last one. Yeah. No, they could be Denver. I just think

if they run into the size deal with the Lakers, the Lakers, they're fucked. But they just don't have the bodies. I mean, they're playing. They play charge

as a small ball five Kaminsky, no shot. And Aiden, who, you know what I love about Chris Paul was watching, um, watching the Utah game the other night.

Yeah. All right. Aiden gets switched on Jordan Clarkson. Clarkson's trying to ISO him. He's trying to work them like 25 feet away from the hoop. Aiden works his ass off. So I know Phoenix people are gonna be happy about me limiting his ceiling earlier,

but I'm telling you, there's just parts of him that I like where he's gone. Okay. Well, this is who I am limited a bit offensively with the way we play. Now I'm going to try happy about me limiting his ceiling earlier, but I'm telling you, there's just parts of him that I like where he's gone, okay, well, if this is who I am limited a bit offensively with the way we play now, I'm going to try to make up for it in all these other places. So I think that part of Aiton's personality, his approach, that's shit I love. He moved his feet and got his hands out and stayed in front of Jordan, throwing everything at him. And it was awesome. It's like, look at this big work and move his feet he gets out contest miss paul brings the ball right down the court and gets it to ayton to reward him for how hard he worked in isolation

on defense and look ain't didn't get the bucket but paul immediately went to him i think eight might get fouled or it was knocked off of somebody else and i go you know what i think is dead that i think that's dead in today's n point guard IQ I got to take care of the big guy stuff I go how many other guys would know and I just was at home and it sounds so stupid but I was home smiling seeing this play happen because Paul was like whatever was none of it matters now I got to get him a bucket I got to get him the ball make him feel good about all of his hard work and then I started running the Rolodex of all the players in the league. I take care of the big guy. But it is funny. It's such an important point.

The old school classic born to be a point guard guys versus what people think is a point guard. There's just so few of them. When I was growing up and Bird showed up on the Celtics

but we had Tiny Archibald and I got to actually watch tiny Archibald for two plus years there on those Celtics teams. He got hurt in 82. They, I think there were, it was actually, I guess four years, but really two where he was elite.

And just to watch like everything he did, it was just like highest possible level, you know? And there's only like, I don't know, seven to 10 guys ever who have come in on a game and, and that little subtle shit, like that Aiton example you gave and just things they remember and little morsels they give out to their teammates. And they're just dictating and deciding every piece of the game. Who does that now? That that's the thing we're going to lose when Chris Paul leaves. There's not a single guy who does that. Yeah, because the thing we're gonna lose when chris paul leaves there's not a

single because i remember watching gary paint at the end of his career and he was the epitome of all these things now granted the idea that you would be like no i loved it back when point guards were guys you didn't have to guard because they never tried to score i think we'd rather have the amazing offensive combinations that we have at the position with the shot making the assist totals everybody just hands out assists like crazy now, but there's still playmaking from these guys.

But that part of it where Gary Payton would see, hey, you know what? So-and-so hasn't gotten the ball like five or six possessions. So now he's not going to show as hard on a switch. Now maybe he's not going to box out

as much or a big guy. Nash was the best example of this. Especially in the 08-09-2010 range with the Suns when his teams weren't as good. And he could still figure out how to extract everything possible out of like Jared Dudley and whoever. Like he just...

Fucking maestro. Go ahead. Go ahead. Who is it when Chris Paul retires? It actually might die with him. I do think Steph has some of that in him, but not this year. Not this year. He's not full conductor.

I control every point of the game. He affects it in a slightly different way, I feel like. But I do think the unselfishness is there, but I don't think. Well, the unselfishness is there because I mean, who else would be as good as Steph and say,

I mean, that's the part about Steph compared to other stars where I go, Hey, do you other guys want to set screens off the ball and set like a second and third screen? And do you want to be a decoy cut and the plays over here? And then the stars and like, no, like run around and set screens on the backside.

Like, I don't want to do that. That would suck. And Steph does those things. My number one, I still can't believe he squ that. That would suck. And Steph does those things. My number one, I still can't believe he squandered this gift guy, not just for this conversation, but he's probably top five overall in any sport

is Kenny Anderson. Because he had it. He had, whatever we're talking about, he had it. And, you know, he had some issues when he was in the nba and i get it like it happens but um that guy there's a different version of his career where he's 17 years and

all the same things that chris paul had it's a bummer yeah he was something else i mean he was he was when he was at georgia tech Georgia tech, you were, you were like, I don't even want to watch big East game some nights when you have Georgia tech were on ESPN back when they had all the different stuff going on. And I look, I was religiously watching every minute I'd watch any big East game. It was a big East. I was just going to watch it. But when Kenny was playing at Georgia tech that trumped everything, the March madness, whatever year that was,

was like, go to the bar. We're all watching this level in college. Too bad. We'll take one more break. We'll do some All-NBA. The big All-NBA question is going to be, is Luka a guard or a forward? Because it opens a path. I was texting with Zach about it over the weekend. I know he's going to talk about it on his pod as well.

If you put Luka at forward, it opens up some guard stuff for people like Kyrie. If you put him at guard, it opens up the forward spot in a really fun way. And the truth is there's no answer whether he's a forward or a guard. So I ask you, would you put him at forward or guard? Or would you finagle it so that you can get the best team possible. Here is why you could argue, put them wherever, because the goal of a first-team All-NBA, in my opinion, is you want the most memorable guys of the season. So for me, it's Jokic, Giannis, Curry, and Luka,

I think have to be first-team. And then that fifth spot can move either way. And it's like, is, is Dame having a good enough season to be a first team all NBA guard versus can you sneak Kawhi in there? Um, even LeBron, if he has a really good next 10 games,

something like that. What's where, where do you stand on the forward guard thing with Luca? I know you hate shit like this, but you have to answer. Uh, no, I appreciate you asking me this stuff.

Cause I think it is more, it helps you with your home. Not that I don't think I would sway you on a vote. Um, because we're both stubborn people, but, uh, I tried to do my own today and it's,

it's really, really hard. It's harder this year in all the fake years that I've had to it um the ones i remember but i agree with you like i would rather look back and go let's get the five guys who we feel like is he one of the five best players in the league right now the lebron thing is tough because he'll have missed 21 games but my first instinct here was to put mb there was right keep it big big, put Doncic as a guard, because, I mean, it's not like he's not playing fucking point guard the entire game.

So you could go Jokers, unimpeachable, Giannis, and then I went with Embiid to kind of reward him for what he means to that team and what he's done. And you're going to say, like, for anybody, again, anybody that jumps out and says,

oh, he's missed too many games, pay attention as we go over all these names. Because I've written down every player that's in the mix and how many games they've missed. And I would like to put Steph there. Steph has to be there unless he gets hurt in the next 10 and misses more.

Because Steph has only missed, it feels like he's missed more but he hasn't he's missed eight games because i think some dame people would go well dames played more than him i don't know dames missed five steps missed eight and steps better so i would go don't you steph yannis mb joker so i have to veto yoka jim bead together on the first team because we we've been able to finagle some stuff with all NBA with forwards and guards. Like there was a year where you could have talked me into LeBron last year.

LeBron as a guard just because he was the point forward of that team. Like there's some chicanery with that. The one thing that has never changed with all NBA over the years is we don't shoehorn two centers in the top spot. The center position has been pretty unassailably the same. So until they switch that, I don't feel right about putting a beat on first team. I, as much as I agree with you on like, let's reward the best five guys. There's just been too many years where that didn't happen, where we had, you know, you go back to the nineties when you're talking about when we had all the awesome centers, right. And we just couldn't do it like, or the, or the early 2000s when we had Weber, Duncan, Garnett, uh, TMAC. And it was just like, look, only two of these guys can be first team all day. And it cost some of those guys historically. So to me Embiid has to be second team

all center, all NBA center. You don't think that Jokic plays in a way that even though he's listed as a center I mean is I mean he has almost as many non-paid touches as he does post touches. I think he has more actually. I know but that's what's so silly about all this, right? Is like

you're creating this hypothetical team that doesn't actually exist, but you're trying not to bend it too much. Right. So I just look at like right now, my tentative team and there's 10 games left. And by the way, this isn't my official team because I'm not handing in my ballot until after the last game. Cause I think too much, there's too much at stake. There's too many missed games and there's too many good players. That's what we love about you. But right now I got Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi,

Curry, Luka. And to me, that's a team that would actually play together too, which I think should be one of the goals of the NBA. It should be a team that a five that looks like a five second team and bead randall lebron cp3 and dame hold on hold on hold on and bead randall lebron cp3 and dame and then i have gobert george zion mitchell booker and on the cusp, not mentioned Tatum, Butler, Kyrie, Beal, and then Harden, who I don't think Harden's going to make it. Played 34 Brooklyn games, eight meaningless Rockets

games, and he's going to miss 30. So I don't see how he can make it. Yeah, I mean, Harden, if he had, if Harden missed 20 total games, because you can't, like you can make a mistake if Harden missed 20 total games, because you can't, like, you can make a mistake when you look at, like, oh, he's only played 30 games with the Nets.

Well, you can't say he's missed, I don't know, what are they, 64 games? Something like that. Yeah, you can't count the ones where he wasn't there. But the problem is that it doesn't look like he's going to play again here unless he gets one warm-up. So by the time his total games missed number is compiled here, it's going to be too much, where if he could have stayed at 20 missed games

on total in the season, he's no worse than second team. Right. Right? I mean, you've got to put Harden second team, but I don't know. Are you a little high on Kawhi putting him first team here? I don't know. Are you a little high on Kawhi putting him first team here?

I don't feel good about it. I want LeBron to get that spot just because I think he's one of the five best players in the league, and I want him to get there. I think he has to play all the rest of the game, so I don't think right now he's missed 21. He's missed 21.

I don't think he can miss another game, basically. 21 is like even over 20 I don't feel great about. I look at it this way. You want these three teams to represent the best 15 players in the league, right? So it's like, all right, Bradley Beal should make it. He's averaging 31 a game, blah, blah, blah. Like he should get one of the guard spots. I watch a lot of basketball.

I just don't feel like Bradley Beal is one of the best 15 players in the league. Like the guy that I feel bad about that I left out is Butler. And I don't feel like Butler's played enough games either. Butler's 47 out of 64. So he's right on the cusp. What's your third team again? Well, so it's Gobert, George,

Zion, Mitchell, and Booker. And I think where you can get creative is you swap Butler in for Mitchell, especially if Mitchell's going to miss more games. Or you swap Butler into Booker and just make Butler a guard. I think you can cheat that way with Butler because he's kind of a perimeter guy.

I don't know what position he is. So when you say that, I know your point on the two-center thing, but you basically made up your own rules while you stuck to it. But I think Butler's a forward and a guard. I think he kind of goes both spots, right? So was Joker. He's a center and a guard. But who, who, well, that's fair.

Like he's, he's basically point center. I want to figure out a way to get Butler into one of these teams. And I can't figure it out yet. Butler over Tatum? Yeah, I think so. I just think what Butler's done for that Miami team where it's like, who else is playing well in Miami?

Bam. Bam's been awesome. That's it. Name a third guy who's playing well for them. No, it's Bam and Butler beyond the efficiency never for Butler. Some of the traditional stats look exactly the same. They really do.

But then the efficiency stuff is up. Bam taking big spikes in a couple different things. And then it's surrounding by disappointment. I mean, the hero thing, you'd think his rookie card was like twelve hundred dollars at one point what is it now it's like 120 uh the duncan robinson thing thought he would take a step up he took a step down you're going down like these his hero his

card is like the all those greg jeffries rookie cards i have. He might be. Might be. Yeah, Butler. I look for... Butler and Kyrie are the two. So Kyrie has played 48 of 65. He's missed 17. I've also personally witnessed him out of those 48 games he has played,

he's been a zombie for like seven of them. But when he's on it, he's one of the best 15 guys in the league. like seven of them. But when he's on it, he's one of the best 15 guys in the league. Tatum's another one. When he's on it, he's one of those. So Tatum, Butler and Kyrie and then Beal. My point is we just have a lot of good players and you can't do the stump thing. This is a big Rosillo passion where it's like, Hey, we only have so many spots. Like somebody can't be snubbed. If I only have 15 spots and there's 21 good guys or whatever, like, sorry, people are going to be unhappy.

Like it's just the way it goes. Um, it's just loaded. We've had years where you couldn't even come up with 15 guys. Last year. I mean, Westbrook made 13 last year. Because of two good months. It didn't make any sense. People look back and they're like,

what happened? You don't have any issue leaving Beal off when he might end up leading the league in scoring? I'd agree that, you know, if you had to put a gun to my head saying Beal top 15 or just out of it, I think he's just out of it. I think he's out of it.

I test wise, I just don't feel like he's a top 15 guy. I think he's out of it. I test wise, I just don't feel like he's a top 15 guy. I don't. Okay, but what if he leads the league in scoring? What does that mean though? I mean, they have two guys on that team who take all their shots.

You know? Who else is going to shoot in that team? So you'd vote Kyrie over Beal? The case for Kyrie is just like the Nets might be the one seed where they're not going to, and

they have three of the best guys in the league, and none of them are going to make all NBA. Historically, how's that going to look? So at least you see Kyrie in the third team. I mean, Durant's missed a million games. Harden's going to miss half the season. Somebody's going to understand it 28 years from now. It's like Brooklyn won the title. They had no All-NBA guys.

I would, the argument for Kyrie is the moments where you watch him go for 24 in the first half and not miss and no one can do anything with him. And you go, okay, you know, he's not a top 10 player, but he is, you know, when Pod, aka Rod Strickland, said he's the most offensively talented player I've ever seen. And then people gave him shit. It actually isn't a.k.a. Rod Strickland, said he's the most offensively talented player I've ever seen,

and then people gave him shit, it actually isn't a crazy statement. Because then it gets turned to Dizzy saying he's the great— Well, of course he's not saying he's the best player in NBA history. But the talent and the peak Kyrie moments are as special as anything you'll see during the season. But there's going to be plenty of people who aren't going to vote for him because he took time off and he took time off, I think twice without telling anybody. So, you know, there you go. That's why he's off my list right now.

I was waiting for you to say it. When I did the pod with Harden, I mean, I'm sorry, when I did the pod with... I was like, wait, what? One of the pods with Durant where he said he thought Kyrie was just better than Iverson and it turned into a whole day of blog posts

that Durant thinks Kyrie is a more talented player than Allen Iverson was. He is. And the answer is he is. He is. He's the most coordinated guard other than Jordan that we've ever had. His ability to use both sides of his body equally

at the highest possible level, no matter what is going on, and just finish perfectly every time is unbelievable. On SportsCenter years ago, I said he's the best small finisher I've ever seen. And everybody just lost it because they go Iverson, Iverson, Iverson. Look at Iverson's peak years at the rim, and then look at Kyrie's sustainability and actually getting better at it. Now, the counter to me is you say, okay, there's more room around the rim than ever before.

You have to factor that in. You have to factor in with college players coming out of the draft. Like, is it a little bit easier to finish all the spacing? Yes, but at the same time, I've seen Kyrie finish with zero angle there against huge players going, no one else could make that layup.

And he's the only one. So yeah, his finishing would be like, if my homes could throw with both arms, which, which maybe he, maybe he's working on that in the off season. So ran.

So I guess the polarizing ones, because the foot, if Luke is a guard, it makes a lot of this a lot easier. But I'll be interested to see where Randall ends up. I think I'm higher on him than others. To me, he has to be a second team all NBA forward just because of the durability

and the stats and his impact on that team. That team's going to be a four seed. And they don't have a single other player on that team who's even you know a borderline all-star i think that should matter i know they're in a weaker conference but uh if he's gonna average 25 and 10 and six and that team's gonna be a four seed i don't know how he's not a second team on be a guy i went through it so Jokers played all 64. Embiid's missed 19. Giannis has missed 10. Chris Paul's only missed one.

Steph's missed eight. LeBron's missed 21. Anthony Davis is just out of the picture. He missed 35. Kawhi's missed 18. I wonder, I think that's going to be held against him more than you're factoring in. But like you said,

when you compare it to the rest of the guys, Paul George's missed 16. Harden's missed 17. Tatum's only missed seven. Randall's only missed one. He has to be on seconden's missed 17. Tatum's only missed seven. Randall's only missed one. He has to be on second or third team here. I put him on my second, and I thought I was kind of being weird. And then I go, you know what? I kind of want to do it. I think I'd rather put him second because he's been this important. I'm not saying he's better than Kawhi. I don't want to leave Kawhi off. I don't want to leave LeBron off. But I kind of want to

reward a guy in this year, especially this year, who's been as good as him has only missed one game. Gobert's only missed one game. And then you get to the other guys. Beal's missed nine. Lillard's missed five. Zion, Mr. Durability Issues, has played basically more than everybody else except for a couple guys. He's only missed five games. Kyrie's missed 17,

which will be more. Dame's missed five. You mentioned that. Booker's only missed four. Mitchell's missed five. You mentioned that. Booker's only missed four. Mitchell's missed 11. And Butler's missed 17. So Booker, Phoenix is 37-10 in their last 45, in their last, or 37-8 in their last,

no, 37-10 in their last 47. Booker's 26-4-4, 49-35-87. To me, the case for him being third-team all-NBA is some of the shot-making at the end of these games when they need him to score. Who would you rather have? Who would you rather have, Mitchell or Booker? Well, that's the question for me.

If it comes down to Mitchell or Booker for that spot, I just have to go with Booker. Because... Because of the season or because of your player criteria? Because, you know, I know... The stats are pretty even. Like, they really are. They're both like the average 26 a game.

I think Mitchell's usage rate is actually higher. The team's success is the same. And I have to go with the tiny intangible of, I just feel like in the last two minutes when Phoenix needs him to score, and I've watched a lot of Suns this year as of you, just because I enjoy watching them. I just think he gets really good shots. And I haven't seen, other than Drew Holiday that time, when Drew Holiday was in his jersey, I haven't seen guys really shut him down either. And I'm not sure

what the move would be to shut him down. Because he just gets to where he wants to go. Oh, Thibault was a good one. You're right. But then he, the analogy I use is Thibault had gotten Booker so many times. It was kind of like a fighter and learning the distance.

And then Booker realized on that last baseline jumper that he was like, this is how free I have to get away from Theibel's reach. And then Booker, who had been quiet, went for like eight points in two minutes. And that was the game. What's better than a guard who not only can do all the things Booker does, but when he throws it in the 15 foot banker, fucking love that nobody doesn't does those bank, the bank shots look so easy when in certain guys,

when they just kind of whatever, but I just love his array of shots. I think in the playoffs, that team is going to get good shots in every series. They really are. They're going to get good shots in every series. They really are. They're going to get the shots they want at the Indy games. That's why I'm so bullish on them unless they play the Lakers. I do think his life is a hell of a lot easier with Chris Paul.

True. Because I also feel like you've done kind of your own personal knee-smith on Booker. Because I remember a time when Bill S. Simmons didn't like him that much. I never denied the talent. I don't like crowning these dudes who haven't won anything yet. Win some games, and that's when I get excited. If you could start your team around either guy,

you would start it with Booker before Mitchell? No, I don't know the answer to that yet because it would depend on what kind of team I have. I think Mitchell is a better one-man show type of guy. Yeah, I'd still lean Mitchell. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'd still lean Mitchell and I think missing seven more games is that really that much of a tiebreaker?

I mean, with the one seed at the end of it. Who would you rather have on Phoenix, Mitchell or Booker? Well, I'd definitely rather have Booker with Paul. Yeah. But I think I'd like Mitchell better. If I were starting a team tomorrow and I had a pick of either guy, I think I'd definitely rather have Booker with Paul. But I think I like Mitchell better. If I were starting a team tomorrow and I had a pick of either guy, I think I'd take Mitchell.

Man, that's a tough one. But I'm not convinced I'm right. I just... You know who's in the all-NBA waiting room and I can't believe he's here and I can't believe we're getting him a water right now? Russell Westbrook. I'm not voting for him,

but he's in the fucking green room again. He just has to be. That team makes the playoffs and he's 22-11-11 and they're doing everything and that team has nobody on it other than him and Beal. Okay, but let's do

all the guards again real quick. I'm not making the case for him. I'm just saying he's in the green room and I'm surprised that he's here. I agree. But it's in the green room, and I'm surprised that he's here. I agree. But it's worth at least mentioning his name. But if we're going the first four spots, it's Steph, Donchich, Chris Paul, Lillard, and then Kyrie ahead of him.

I think Beals ahead of Westbrook. Mitchell and Booker. If you're going to play that game, you get the other forwards in there. He's in the five spot. I think if you're going Westbrook, you start mentioning Trey Young, too. I can't remember all NBA coming down

to the last 10 games more than this. Usually with 10 games to go, we know. I know it's a shorter season, but all the injuries have really thrown a rack. We'll take one more break and then we'll get weird. All right, coming back. We're done with basketball.

I like Mac Jones more than you. Just leave it at that. You've done a lot of Mac Jones content. I don't know that that's true. I think you just talked, now you're excited, so you want it to be true. I like Mac Jones, all right?

I remember texting McShay when he was doing one of the games. I like, you know what I love about Mac? His feet in the pocket. That to me is a huge thing. You have mobility in the pocket. The release is really quick. don't know and i don't love when a quarterback needy team like new england in this case goes oh and i also think the saban belichick thing is if oh well you know saban signed off on it i don't know i think bill's been susceptible rather impressionable to a lot of the college coach buddies that he's had where he's taken a bunch of those guys that haven't worked out so yeah so there's things there if mac jones is their quarterback for 10 years and he's really good i'm not going to be shocked and if he flames out I'm not going to be shocked. And if he flames out, I'm not going to be shocked. I guess I'm just not going to talk myself into him the way you would. I loved it on Thursday night. I loved it

more the more I talked to my dad about it all weekend as we just kept talking about it because they got him at 15. They didn't have to give up any extra assets. Yeah. And if he pans out, it's an unbelievable salary situation where you have this guy who could be your starting quarterback

for like $3 million. And that's it. And you have this four-year window where it's like, oh, this is cool. The draft itself, though, night one was the first 15 picks were iconic. I love the stuff you did on your podcast on Friday with Kevin about the Rodgers tweet.

The Rappaport- Let's do that then. Let's do that. Rappaport breaking Jeopardy news. No, it's just hilarious. He could host Jeopardy. Rodgers completely manipulated the whole day. I think, I actually believe that he wants to host Jeopardy.

I don't think he's ready to walk away from football. I think he cares too much about the football legacy stuff. It's weird to me how much he's anti-Green Bay. I don't really understand that. To me, it's like he's blaming the organization the more I look at this.

I just don't think he wants to live there anymore. I really think it's that simple. I think he wants to live on the West Coast and be closer to LA and closer to the girl he's dating and closer to Jeopardy

and closer to... I think he's just done with Wisconsin, but he doesn't want to say it because he doesn't want the Packer fans to turn on him. So it's all these other things. What do the Packers do wrong, really? They're trying to draft defense to have a contending team? Is that a bad thing? They drafted

Jordan Love because they thought he was an asset? They're not allowed to do that? I don't know. Are they, are they fucking assholes? Like I wouldn't say so. Should they talk to him more? Should they,

should they get his opinion more? Like, I don't know. That team doesn't have an owner. They're owned by fucking everyone in Wisconsin. Their, their president is just some former football player that got nominated to be the president of the team.

Like the whole situation is weird, is just some former football player that got nominated to be the president of the team. The whole situation is weird, but it just seems to me like he doesn't want to live in Wisconsin and deal with it anymore more than he's being dissed. People are acting like they're sending dog shit to his house. Is it really that bad? He almost made the Super Bowl last year. Matt LaFleur was a good hire. He did a good job as a coach last year. Matt LaFleur was a good hire. He did a

good job as a coach last year. It wasn't like he was a shit hire. I get not liking the Jordan Love pick. I get it, but there was some stuff there with Rodgers where it didn't look like he was playing as well. He was killing off for two straight years. Maybe their evaluation of Love was that

he was a top seven guy and he was maybe the number one quarterback on their board and they went, all right, you know this position is really, really tough. So let's do something here. So I can understand why they did. I can also understand why he's pissed off. And I'm with you. I need more. I need more. I need more from Aaron Rodgers to start demanding that the GM is fired. Okay. In the hole, I want to be near my girlfriend. You play pro football, bro. You're not cold calling 250 fucking days a year at Dean Witter. So this is not something where you can't play football professionally in Green Bay and then live somewhere else for basically seven or eight months a year. You almost made it to the Super Bowl. Yes, it sucks that the defense, because I defend Rodgers on this when people want to point to his playoff record. And then it's like, yeah, I think the defense allows like 37 points per game and all those playoff losses. That sucks. But they have had weapons. They've invested in the offensive line. They've invested, you know, it was weird

at times. I'll agree to like Ty Montgomery, wide receivers playing running back. Like, what the hell are you guys doing? Like, it felt like a Belichick thing where it's like, how weird can I make this and how challenging can I make it for Brady? So yeah, I can understand that there are moments, but for you to start demanding that the gm is fired i need more and the fact that this was so calculated where they gave every major nfl guy a little bit a piece of information that was a little bit different and that's why the rap report thing where i get why rap report puts it out there because it's going to get played but i mean it's so fucking stupid like imagine imagine colin cowherd's contract being up and then an agent at ca leaking to like a guy a media guys like you know cowherd

he was fly fishing the other day in montana and his guide said his his touch and feel was unbelievable and he could he could be a competitive fly fisher tomorrow he could do it tomorrow like it was so we we all saw the aaron rogers jeopardy stuff he was good for an athlete right right so that's the other part of it too so that then an agent had to tell rap report rap reports like cool i'm gonna use this and all of us like you said it's like all right dude that was really cool you got to do that but give me a break yeah like joe buck's gonna be better than you hosting jeopardy he just is just is. He'll be better at it. He does it for a living. He's a professional media dude. You're a quarterback.

And then to do it, but to do it on draft day, so it's like, we're going to show them, we're going to fuck with everybody, and then it's all going to be Aaron Rodgers talk. We're going to own the day. And that's when you start letting your people, hey, if you really want it out of there, do it before the trade market. Do it before free agency.

If you really are that mad about all of this stuff, because did something happen between then and now, or did you come up with this timeline? Were you going to own it? I mean, you said something to text to me today, but he missed his calling. He should have been another sport, right? Yeah. I texted you. He missed his calling. He should have been an NBA player. He'd be perfect. It's so much easier to do this in the NBA because you can just bully your way to whatever team you want to go to.

The NFL is a little tougher. You also can't kind of quit on your teammates in the same way in the NFL. We haven't had enough yet. It's happening. You think it'll happen? Oh, yeah, yeah. This is part of it.

It's going to start happening more. Guys will just start being miserable. I mean, if Rodgers doesn't want to come back and play and then somebody finally says, hey, here's a couple firsts for the guy and we'll have his send-off be with us for a few years, then maybe a team will do. I don't know if it's worth two firsts,

but the guy we just saw win. Did he win MVP? Who knows? The NFL MVP is just, it would be like if, if you trained MMA for a week, well, and no,

like you really trained it and you had a couple of good sparring sessions. And then I was like, I still might leave the ringer. You know, he's thinking about fighting in UFC two 68. He thinks he could be the, be the champ. Like, what is this? Aaron Rodgers, you're not going to be the Jeopardy host.

What are you doing? He has a better chance of being a Jeopardy host than I do. No, but that's exactly what it is. Like, what are you doing? You're not going to be the Jeopardy host. You're not going to be able to play football and be the Jeopardy host. If they really want it out, do this months ago. Yeah yeah if you really want out because you've been so wrong i need better

information which we haven't gotten um more guys are going to start doing this so the balls in his career like he can sit there but i cannot express this enough the fact that mark Murphy was there for the Favre bullshit, where he retired all the time. By the way, Aaron did win MVP. Congrats. The whole reason they transitioned into Rodgers is they were sick of a quarterback dictating who they were as a franchise. It's one thing for Favre to retire and go, hey, you know what?

The old bones are ready to sling it. But he did it four years in a row that finally like, hey, dude, see you later. We can't do this with me anymore. I think that's an important part of this story where I still am waiting for the GM and the NBA

or maybe we'll have it here in the Packers where they just go, no. You know, if the Rockets had just gone to Harden and said, no. Like, this is gross. You don't care. Well, in retrospect,

that was a much better version than what actually they did where they got a bunch of shitty picks and nothing else. Congrats. It will take somebody, and look, Stone, the GM of the Rockets, else. Congrats. It will take somebody. And look, Stone, the GM of the Rockets, gets the gig post-Daryl. He doesn't have the equity built up.

I don't know if he's good or bad. I have some answers. You have some thoughts. That Harden trade is an abomination. It was bad when it happened, and it's worse now. It's even worse now. It's one of the worst trades in the last 20 years. It'll take a GM with some equity with the team and ownership and all that stuff when the next guy asks out for

like two or two plus years where he goes no i'm not going to just trade you and i'm not just going to trade you to one team and i'm not just going to trade you for like three real picks and a bunch of fake fucking swaps that are never going to happen so that I can say that I have seven picks coming. So we'll see what happens. But this is not being handled well. Rodgers can want out all he wants. He needs to do a better job of getting out. I didn't like how he handled it.

The hissy fit on draft day, and then, as you pointed out in the Clark podcast, parceling out the leaks to the different reporters so nobody took it personally that they didn't get involved in the Aaron Rogers leak buffet. Um, I don't know. Green Bay came pretty close to making the Superbowl last year. It's hard to basically,

the Belichick things to me completely different with Brady where you know over and over again they kind of were like look we're not adding to your contract we're going to do whatever we want we're not getting you good enough weapons and Brady was like fuck this I want to play to a 45 that was a breakup

that made a lot more sense than this breakup because you would say the Packers still have one of the six or seven best chances to make the Super Bowl right now. So what are you upset about, Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, but the Brady one's more disrespectful in that

Belichick, I think, was trying to make... Well, not only is it the resume, but it was trying to prove some point that you're not worth a few extra million to make you feel better about it. I mean the brady thing should have never happened and belichick had to show that he was going to do with belichick no matter what to like prove some point and the the packers actually here will give rogers more money if he wants and you can afford it too because when the new tv deal kicks in you know even if he's older and that number's too big, it's not even going to fucking matter.

I really think that the Brady one is so much more disrespectful once we'll get the full scope of what it is. Most of us, I think, kind of have a pretty good understanding. I think the Rodgers media coverage is just bonkers to me. There was an article in People Magazine, and it was about the Shailene

Woodley and the Great Lakeship. This is a quote in the People Magazine piece it was about his, the Shailene Woodley and the Great Relationship. And this is a quote in the People Magazine piece, quote, this is from an insider about the engaged couple, quote, this relationship differs because they had extra time to experience what is important to them and what they want. They are attracted to each other and have found something they didn't find in others. What fucking friend of yours would ever have a quote like that about, about Rad Rosillo? If you found a girlfriend, they're attracted to each other and have found something they didn't find in others.

This relationship, they're like, what world are we in? Wait, these loops are just fucking bonkers. But I'm so confused by all of it. I'm so glad you added that in there. Cause I, I don't have a subscription that ran out with people but i am probably about as famous as i'll ever be which isn't very much and that's that's you know what i mean i've done a bad job of trying to be more i i've just i've just there's still time i still i know but i yeah you can get it well whatever i do the next thing that's big it'll be behind the scenes probably anyway so the point is is that if i were to this level i would have so much fun telling my friends to say some stupid fucking thing about me to people

magazine like this would be these would be my mondays i'd be like get clear the mondays we're calling up hal mcgurk sully and we're just gonna sit there and we're gonna be like all right sully you tell esquire and be like, Rosilla was down in the dumps and he like, honestly, he could do better, but he was on such a cold streak that he was like, Sully,

fuck it. I would have so much goddamn fun with this premise that people close to me would become sources about my personal life that I'd be like, you guys can say whatever you want. Make up shit, please. And then we'd see it and we'd laugh and fun would be had by all. Sources said Ryan was glowing in his new relationship, but then it turned out it was just because he had a good workout. Ryan, they had a good workout. Ryan, they had a terrible breakup. They were working out together and he

said, will you stop fucking joining me on heavy days? Heavy days are your cardio. Heavy days are my days. Leave me alone. And that's when it all fell apart. I don't know. Is it possible quarterbacks just get weird when they hit their late 30s because this is when brady got weird too nobody's weirder than aaron

rogers all right so there's that part of it and then um i don't i don't care about any of this stuff the idea that because you're in a relationship with an actress and then somehow now you're looking at life differently plenty of people get married man ton look at the stats tons of people have like whenever like oh he's got a kid now he's a father he's different i i don't see the population going down anywhere we're at a pretty big fucking number globally right now so there's a lot of people out there that have kids and have love lives and and have a harder deal than you and a huge struggle so somehow like you're so in love that this is going to dictate and again i think this is all bullshit so it might not even be roger's deal but his people the people that are leaking the stuff handling this do you really i guess it is working because other people are

eating this shit up but i just i read it and go like he's the first guy that ever fell for somebody and now it's like man this nfl like did she When did she find out he was a quarterback? After a year? You do what? She knows him as the Jeopardy host. It'll have a weird ending that will end up, I think, him forcing a trade in June or July. He'll probably get his way. Because that's when the cap thing,

it makes it easier for them to trade him. They have Jordan Love. They could just get a bunch of picks. They'll get one stud and go. But I just don't know. I guess the team would be Denver. There was a lot of Denver rumors. Denver could throw some stuff in the trade.

But, you know. Well, the funny thing about denver though remember is that manning went to denver because elway was like we'll do whatever you want i know what it takes to win i know what it's like to be in your shoes i knew how hard it was and manning bought into it whereas harbaugh when he was at san francisco told manning we're gonna run our stuff manning was like uh all right i'm gonna go to Denver. And what Manning did was covered for Elway. So I used to kind of defend Elway. And then you dig deeper into what this Elway situation is

with this Denver trust in the whole team, which is weird in itself, so that he kind of did that deal we were talking about a little bit earlier. He gets promoted, which really meant you were doing such a bad job with the roster the last few years. So in fact, Elway, Manning saved his ass more than Elway created some paradise some NFL paradise for him so if Rodgers is going to Denver being like hey they did it with Manning it's like well no actually you have to cover for and I still like

the best version of the Denver roster there's still a lot of guys that I really like yeah their quarterback play has been such a disaster um that i mean look they were hoping to get average play a few years because that defense was so good and they didn't even get that so look rogers would come in he would make the team better but the manning elway thing would be played out in the media where i don't know that it really was elway as much as it was payton coming in there and playing i don't feel like as a society we're having enough fun with athletes who start to get a little weird. I think Twitter has really changed the game because people are kind of afraid the athlete's going to clap back at them and then all of their fans

will go. And it's like, it's a little more walking on eggshells now. I think you made a great point. Aaron Rogers is really weird. He just is like, he really thinks he's going to be the next jeopardy host. I don't think he does.

I think an agent told that to wrap a host. I don't think he does. I think an agent told that to Rappaport. I don't know. I actually think he really wants to be the next Jeopardy host. Did Joe Buck host it yet? Joe Buck should be the next Jeopardy host. I think he'd do a good job. Joe tweeted out a picture of him prepping by the pool saying he's never been more nervous.

He'll do great. Joe Buck's incredible on Twitter. Joe Buck should be who? Guess what? He's had 30 years of of reps he'll do a really good job um hey let me throw this at you though off of that real quick yeah it's because you know how people say like we've never been more divided we've never been more divided as a country and it was funny because I had mentioned this on my podcast but I just finished that Michael Lewis book losers which was uh trail fever it came out after the 1996 you know primaries and clinton running for re-election and he ended up going up against dole and lewis basically starts the book

on the gop trail and been falling around all these characters that like you and i would remember but you're just like oh my god so it's an awesome book it actually didn't do that well and a lot of the stuff is is alarmingly. Like, oh, the border, we've never been more divided or morals are crumbling as a society and all this stuff. You're like, this is crazy. Like, a lot of this stuff is the same right now. But the difference is, and it's based on the roommate theory that I've always had,

is if you think about all the people in your life that you got to know better, how many people are you like, hey, I really like that person even more versus the number that you'd say, I got to know him and I really don't like that person now. That number is larger in the second group.

It always is. It just is. Because the more you get to know more people, you're like, oh, I liked him. And then we lived together for a little while. You're like, that sucks. The roommate theory applies to all of us right now because with how much we've all shared

over the last decade with Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, we've never known each other better. And this speaks to athletes as well. We know everybody better. We know all of each other way better than we ever could have at any other point in history. And what we're realizing is we don't like each other that much. That's a good one. Like KD is victimized by that, right? When KD, what, three, four times a year, he gets involved in some dumb Twitter thing that he shouldn't wait in. And it's almost like he's one of your buddies. Like, oh, come on, KD. Why are you getting involved in this again? Stop. You know, meanwhile, I mean, I know I'm a tiny bit, but, um, have you

ever said anything to him? No. Cause I don't know him that way, you know, but I, I, if he asked for my opinion, I'd be like, get off Twitter, dude. It's not, not great for you, but I think there's some people that we watch from afar and like, yeah, why do we do it that way? Why do we do it this way? Um, I'm with you. I think we know way too much about everybody these days. And don't like it mystery mystery was more fun in the late 90s when it would just be like limp biscuit who the fuck is fred durst and you just had no idea besides awesome did you ever buy a limp biscuit t-shirt um no do you have a friend that did was not a fan of limp biscuit oh all right um i'll i have a remind me to tell you a story like let me can i save a limp biscuit story for

like a couple months from now yeah we do have one we can do limp biscuit corner the biscuit corner parent corner i let me do a quick parent corner. Yes, please. My daughter turned 16 this weekend. I have a 16-year-old daughter. Let me tell you something. When they say it goes by fast, they weren't kidding. I know.

That's crazy, man. I remember when you had her. We were email occasional buddies. That's when we first, first started ever talking. It's probably about, yeah, it makes sense. I think like, Oh four Oh fives when we first started talking and,

um, yeah, I was thinking here, here's my parent corner about this. You know, you have this ride with your kid, but then around like age 15 and maybe earlier, maybe 14 heading into 15, heading into 16.

You just become less and less irrelevant to them. You're basically like chauffeur slash provider slash ATM. And it just keeps going that way until they go to college. Apparently it circles back at some point.

I wish it was like sports where you see it go in a certain way and I could, I could replace her with like the Jordan love. Just bring, bring in, I basically like 60 year old Zoe is now I've, I've shipped her off and 10 year old Zoe is back. The one from six years ago. And then I just get to do the cycle again. Like it's sports, but it doesn't work that way in real life they just kind of go away they don't need you as much yeah i know and that's going to be i think it's probably way tougher with the daughter part of it too but like what like i've been lucky enough you know to become closer with you and

consider you a friend and you know we used to do these pods in person because it was cool yeah get me out of the house again i'm vaccinated now we might be back all right i'm almost there we're halfway there but um i'm always really impressed with her i'm really impressed oh that's nice no because i think one of the cool things is when you see somebody's a little bit younger how do they handle themselves around older people because older people just sort of you know like there's older guys here it's like who the hell is this dude now look ben's ben i'm worried about but zoe is she just i don't know man she she just handles herself really really well and i would like what are you like as a soccer dad with her soccer dad now it's like a reps thing right it's almost like playing quarterback the first couple

years a lot of interceptions a lot of panic in the pocket a lot of things you take back um you make a million mistakes there should be actually be a course for how to be a soccer dad this might not be a terrible idea idea. There was a game. I remember, um, early on when it was like small nets, like seven V seven. Um, and they had like a quiet game. They had actually had a game where the parents weren't allowed to yell anything at the kids and the kids all played better and enjoyed it more where it was like, we, you, nobody's allowed to say anything. It was like, cool. And every, and it was better. And then the to say anything. It was like, cool. And it was better. And then the next day it went all back to,

it's just parents screaming constantly and everybody misbehaves. Everyone gets mad at these poor refs who are making $20 an hour and it's ludicrous. When it gets later, when it gets to like age 15, 16, my daughter's playing on a team with 17-year-olds. It's a year older. And it's just there's a calmness in the crowd.

Nobody really says anything. There's no wildcard dads. People aren't yelling at the refs unless it's really egregious. Nobody's yelling at their kid at all. It's just experienced veteran soccer dads at that point. It's better. Everyone's made their mistakes. Yeah. You know, I like life weeds us all out

a certain way. There's still other levels we can be weeded out here, but there's nothing that tells you how quickly you're weeded out when it comes to youth sports. Because everybody plays and everybody thinks they're going to play and then by the time high school rolls around, you're like, not many guys are playing anymore. I imagine it probably the

byproduct of that is that it's weeding out the parents that had ridiculous expectations anyway, because now their kids, the kids that were playing, that they were screaming about when they were younger, the kid just doesn't have that interest. And that parent is kind of not to say that there aren't still some crazy ones. Cause I've friends with enough guys that have coached, you know, high level high school football and baseball and basketball to go, man, the parents can really drive you crazy. But I'm sure it's probably a little bit better at a more advanced age when everybody realizes they're out there with like a purpose.

Well, you know what happens with girls? A lot of them will fade out around 14, 15. You'll see it like they'll get, they'll maybe they'll start, um, they'll start wanting to go out more. They get a boyfriend, they have other interests. Um, or they're just tired of, of dealing with the dad part of it or the parent part of it or the mom part of it or whatever. And they just, the boys are just kind of like, they're like dogs. They're just running around. They're crazy. Um, the girls, they definitely, you can see some of them starting to survey like,

eh, is this worth it? Is it worth it to go to practice four days a week? Do I want to do this way? Yeah, totally. I mean, look,

um, because they, the reason I say this, it's not a sexist thing. Girls are just smarter. They're better at like the big picture stuff and weighing like, is this worth it versus that worth it? Whereas like boys are just kind of like plow ahead.

And, uh, that's one thing I've noticed. Like some, if you, if you have like the annoying overbearing dad, those, those kids are mostly out of it unless they're like just incredibly talented

because they're like, fuck this. I'm out. I'm going to go, I'm going to go do this instead. I'm going to, I'll sing or I'll become an influencer or whatever. That's my,

that's my, uh, that's my take. I don't know. You can drive your kid out of you sports way faster than you can turn them into a star. Cause I always, you know know i don't know if it'll happen for me but i always would wonder if i would approach the parent part of of youth sports

the same way that i handled my opinions you know where we were driving back in the car and i've got a 10 year old daughter who played soccer and she had a bad game and she's complaining and saying she was better than like three of the other teammates. And I'd be like, you think you're better than you're like the sixth best player on the team. Yeah. Let's go through the list. Yeah. Like, right. Okay. First of all, right now, like you could have a good month, but you know, your usage rates a little high, you know? So I think I'd be so brutally honest. Maybe it's better off that I'm not. Yeah, we have, I'm actually like helpful with her now. I don't know if I always was in the past, but I do know sometimes good advice to give

that actually can be helpful. You know, like one of the things this, cause she's playing with older kids. Let's go through the list. Let's go through the list. I'll give you five better than you. But one of the things is like, as it gets older and more advanced,

it's super physical. Yeah. And you almost have to match the physicality versus kind of reacting to the physicality and stuff like that. So we talk about shit like that after we never talk about like, why'd you do that? Why'd you do this?

Cause you, you know, it's's it's almost more positive thoughtful that's the car ride home now when she was like seven eight there were times where i'd just be like silence for a half hour be so mad that you're trying meanwhile it's like an eight-year-old kid and you realize eventually like oh wait what am i doing yeah i'm not helping at all this is i'm gonna make her you know and then you kind of figure it out and you know some people don't figure it out though no funny funny tell but it says more about the parent though to me than anything right you know i don't i don't but you know i don't my my perspective is always a little weird because

i am the oldest of five and i played for my father growing up and all that different stuff and he was great with me but i could tell when he was trying different things with me too you know i could i could tell because there were stretches where i was a huge disappointment because i was so small and he was enormous yeah so if i'd have a bad stretch and i was always playing in leagues for the most part like a lot of the travel, everybody was older and a lot bigger than me, but he'd still be pissed if I were just like not playing well, but then he would try to balance it with something else. And I've never, I don't resent any of it. I mean, it was just, I knew what he was trying to do. He was trying to motivate me, but it was just frustrating because I was so small, but he, um, he was always, he was always trying. And, and I know this sounds nuts because none of it really matters. We're talking about youth sports and all that kind of stuff,

but it's for a kid that's going to play a sport for a long time. And growing up for the parents that are listening to this part of the podcast, I don't know that there's a perfect approach to it. I mean, it's a lot like coaching where you can push certain buttons, but the buttons you push with one kid are going to not work with another like i used to have to be yelled at like i would get i'd have a bad start my dad would call a timeout and he would lean into me and be like so you know remember i told

you that joke he's like you you decided you weren't going to play well on the ride over here today huh or we'd leave after a bad game and be like you lost the game on the ride over here today huh or we'd leave after a bad game and be like you lost the game on the ride over and i'd be like but he was doing it to piss me off because that was the best way to get the most out of me um but i i gotta imagine like i don't know if it's if it's different having a daughter versus having a son but however you're trying to like it sounds like she's pretty self-motivated at this point she's playing a long time she's really good you know we've talked about her a little bit here but figuring out which buttons to push without feeling like the overbearing dad but who's a dad who's also made living in sports and obsessive sports you spend your entire life like with these observations it's a lot to put

together into one package well it's also lot to put together in a one package. Well, it's also a big time commitment for the parents. And that's, that's what I would say as, as part of parent quarter for the younger, for the younger parents out there who had the kid who's like six, seven is like, oh, it'd be awesome.

It's, it's a fucking commitment. Like we drove, we had a game today. It was like an hour or a Saturday. It was, uh, I don't know, hour and a half there, two hours back. Stopped at Jim, brought my dad. Stopped at Jimmy John's on the way back. Had some sandwiches in the car on the way home.

Wall-to-wall traffic on the 405. It's like, yeah, this is like Saturday. Seven hours, six hours, whatever it is. And it's like, you know, nine, 10 years of it. So you want your kid to at least like what they're doing. And I think if that's where- Well, the hockey parents, the hockey parents out there, like- The hockey parents is a whole other level. That's like, oh my God.

My greatest regret in life is not being a pro hockey player, not because of the money, but because I would have been the best guy as a retired pro hockey player. Like I, there's no, there's no personality groups that I fit in with better than that group socially. They could be like, oh yeah, Rusillo. Yeah, he played hockey.

He was with the Canucks for a little while. It's a different breed. Right. And so whenever it was brought up, my father was like, first of all, the idea that you're not playing basketball and you're playing something else isn't going to happen. But then he was, he would actually said to me, he's like, you think I'm going to get up at four in the morning and bring you to the rink? And he's like, you're

playing basketball. Like, and like discussion. That was the only time I'd ever came up. Um, but you're right. They're different. They're different. And all these trends, like every now and then we're texting, like how many different times have you been out of the state for soccer i mean twice twice this month but you know at least with the soccer like it's the games are an hour and a half and you're outdoors and especially when it gets to the higher level it's really fun to watch the baseball baseball, I was kind of psyched when Ben stopped playing baseball. The baseball is brutal.

Like those double headers, the 100 degrees outside. He would play third base for, you know, three straight innings. Nobody hit a ball over there. He'd bat once and, you know, then somebody gets mercy ruled and you're just like, what just happened? Think about where we grew up too.

Like high school baseball games in the Northeast, nobody went to those. Nobody goes. Like people go to your basketball games. People go to the football games. Hell, even soccer because at the beginning it's the fall semester.

You're in high school. You want to be out doing social stuff. And then you'd be watching the baseball players trudge over to a rainy field wondering if they're going to get seven innings in. And you just go,

you're just going to stand out there and freeze your ass off and the bat would just fucking sting so hard in your hand and nobody's there I'll tell you people missed it though because you could feel the Saturday's game which they lost

was the first one where really none of the parents had masks on outside because I think pretty much all the parents are vaccinated at this point. And we're just sitting in the stands and it was like, oh yeah, kind of missed this. It's been, you know, 14 months really since it felt like relatively normal to be out there and hanging out watching a soccer game. But yeah, I will say rooting for your own kid still trumps anything else.

That would be my number one thing with being a sports parent. It's still the most fun to watch your own kid. And I don't mean that in like a narcissistic, like egomaniac way. It's just like,

it's like all of your, all of your favorite teams combined. That's what it's like. Sounds like I got to adopt a kid this week. Just have one. Go ahead and have one, man. That doesn't play hockey. Pandemic is over. Yeah, we missed it with Ben.

I really think he could have been a really good hockey player and we got him skating like a year too late. And it's like if you miss the window, it's over. You can't make up the ground skating. If you start skating at age six, it's you, these other kids, they're skating at four. Then you're, you're put with the younger kids. Not the great ones. There's always, there's always stories. You gotta be out there at age four. I think other sports you can pick up, the hockey is just tough. But yeah, I always like when there's like a huge bullet though.

Yeah, you did did you dodged a bullet on the time commitment part of it oh my god the foot the 4 a.m ring thing why aren't there more rings have we ever figured this out how fucking hard is it that more rings it's not like they're that like that spacious dude the markup on open skate you just can't get those time slots crazy what else do you want to know about sports parenting anything no i think i covered it you think you got it all right yeah yeah we're at like the two hour 12 minute mark of this recording so we should probably go uh what do you have rest of the week daniel jeremiah tuesday massive trying to wrap up draft stuff maybe still needs for teams i'll

think of some hook to tease you to listen to it. Trent Dilfer is going to stop by this week. I'm going to try to get every Aaron Rodgers piece of information out of him. I possibly can. Thursday, I'd like to have you on if I could,

because we didn't do this on the segment tonight. But based on the Chris Paul conversation, which I don't want to do again, maybe we can't do Thursday. But I really want to do the however many, what's the list of players in the NBA that truly change who you are as a franchise? Because I don't want to do again maybe we can't do thursday but i really want to do the however many what's the list of players in the nba that truly change who you are as a franchise because i don't think

the list is more than five players i mean really change who you are as a franchise and the irony would be that i think chris paul is one of them but i wouldn't say he's a top 10 player in the league by any stretch because the top 10 players are pretty locked in right now and they're awesome and then this is going to be something kind of different on Thursday. This is a really long tease. Sorry. Todd Graves, the founder of Raising Cane's,

the best chicken fingers ever, who's a friend from Baton Rouge. So, they opened one near me. We went. He, look, he was a sponsor, but I'm not doing it because he was a sponsor. His story's awesome. So, I just want to do

something different and have a guy who started his own business with one shop and then turn it into a national brand. I just think that'd be interesting. I like that Raising Cane's is just like, here are the three options.

Yeah. That's it. Chicken fingers, chicken fingers, or chicken fingers and a bun. You can get four. You can get six. A bun might be involved if you want. There's some fries. They did a great job. You and I are going to go in a locker room and live watch

the second half of a game at some point this week. Oh yeah. Locker room. Locker room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's do it. Look forward to it. We're just going to do like, we'll just do an hour of some awesome second half of some game. Yeah. Absolutely. Just for shits and giggles. I did weird. The Thursday we're doing the draft.

It was so much fun to pop in there and and just kind of shoot the shit as the draft was actually happening. Okay. I think it would be fun to watch a game

and just as a as a science experiment to see how it would go. So stay tuned. It'll be like a Tuesday night, Wednesday night. I'm just going to text you

and we'll put no thought at all into it and all of a sudden we'll be in there. Yeah, it's a good chance I'm doing it anyway. So it shouldn't of a sudden we'll be in there yeah it's a good chance those i'm doing anyway so uh shouldn't be a problem how do you do it we're still up great to see you as always all right that's it for the podcast new rewatchables coming tomorrow what

about bob and then two more podcasts on tuesday and thursday on this feed some big celebrity guests coming up uh including somebody very important to me and a lot of other Boston fans of his specific team that has never been on this podcast. Stay tuned for that. Enjoy the rest of the day. See you on Tuesday. On the wayside Never once said I don't have A few years with him On the wayside

On the wayside Never once said I don't have A few years with him