The Bill Simmons Podcast - All That Jazz, Trae Young’s Path, Trade Rumors, and Teen Patrol With Jackie MacMullan and Zoe Simmons

Episode Date: March 1, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by ESPN's Jackie MacMullan to discuss the Utah Jazz as possible title contenders (3:30), NBA trade rumors (30:30), and a Celtics [panic] segment at the end (1:08:00). Then Bill is joined by his daughter, Zoe, to discuss teen culture one year into the pandemic (1:32:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We love having her at The Ringer and Team Rachel for life. Just wanted to say that. Coming up, Jackie McMullen is going to come on to talk about a whole bunch of NBA things. Somehow we saved the Celtics to the last segment. It's an hour into the podcast. You don't have to hear any Celtics stuff. And then my daughter comes on.

She comes on every two or three months to give us the scoop on teen culture. Apparently, there is just an incredible amount of stuff going on in teen culture right now, including cancellations galore. And she's going to break it all down at the tail end of this podcast. But before we get to that, and Jackie first, Pearl Jam. All right, Jackie McMullin is here. We're taping this. It is 4.30 Pacific time.

So if anything crazy happens in the basketball games over the next couple hours, don't blame us for not talking about it. Where do you want to start? You want to start with the Utah Jazz? Because there's been this existential basketball media thing where it's

people wondering if the Jazz are for real and then the second wave of people lecturing us for, you better believe in the Jazz. Why wouldn't you? And, you know, they're 27 and 7. They're not lighting my ass on fire. But at the same time, they've been the most impressive team of the first 40% of the season.

But I guess my question is, this has been such a weird season. How much does that even mean? Right. And also, is it sustainable? So I'm somewhere in between the two people you described i uh so my around the horn colleague woody horn had the audacity to declare that this team is better than the stockton and malone team that lost to jordan in the finals and i just like completely lost my mind i mean that's just silly. But I will say this about this team. The way they're constituted, it surprises me a little bit. Deciding to be a team that shoots threes,

that makes sense, obviously, in today's NBA. But they're shooting pull-up transition threes. It's just incredible. And I love it. And Donovan Mitchell, who I wasn't sure could do that, absolutely can. You know, so I think the best part for me about the Jazz is that, you know, a year ago, we're talking about whether Rudy Gobert and Donovan Mitchell could coexist going forward because of the COVID fallout and everything. And clearly they can. And then we always ask the question, you know, good players to become great players, they have to take that next step. And clearly Donovan has done that as well.

So I just think he's really fun to watch. They're fun to watch because they move the ball. That's the other thing. They shoot a ton of threes, but they move the ball. They play defense. They do everything you're supposed to do. Now, is Jordan Clarkson going to be Jordan Clarkson in the playoffs? I don't know.

You know, he's the one I still look at going, really? You know, it surprises me. He's been really good for them. But then you look at guys like Royce O'Neal, who I love. He's your prototypical 3 and D guy right now. He's having an unbelievable year. He should be on everybody's all defensive team when this year ends, at least at this moment. And, you know, the thing that's cool about them is, you know, if you want to double Donovan Mitchell, go ahead. But, you know,

you're going to leave Joe Ingles open for a three. You're going to leave Royce O'Neal open for a three. I dare you. He'll hit one, you know, so they're kind of a fun team. And Quinn Snyder's a good coach. I've always thought he was a good coach. So is it sustainable? We'll see. I mean, I think Gobert is the defensive player of the year right now too. And he's so smart because he stays home. He doesn't go out, you know,

you can't pull him out with a big, he doesn't go for that. It doesn't work. So I think they're interesting. I don't know if I'm ready to declare them an unbeatable team stampeding their way to the finals. But to your point, it's an unusual year. And one player breaks the rules or, you know,

someone in his family breaks the rules and he gets caught up in protocol and then he's out to dinner with four other guys on the team and you've lost half your starting lineup for 10 7 to 10 days and your season's over potentially I mean look at the Toronto Raptors they were finally getting it together you know Van Vliet's been dragging him along I mean Kyle was hurt Van Vliet's been great Piotr Pascal we talked a little about him we've talked to him. He kind of righted his own ship. Like, all right, here we go.

We're coming. And now, who knows? You know how long? And they don't have anybody to even coach the team, for crying out loud. Right. So, I mean, it's just a weird year. Yeah, it's been a season where so many different teams and players seem to have had momentum. And all of a sudden, the rug gets pulled out.

And I look at it almost like the 99 season, that 50 game season. Spurs, yeah. Spurs. Yeah, the teams that really did well in the regular season, the Spurs went 37 and 13. That was a team that had been together for a couple of years. The Jazz were 37 and 13.

They'd been together that whole decade. Forever. And then Indiana, 33 and 17. Miami was 33 and 13. They'd been together that whole decade. And then Indiana 33 and 17. Miami was 33 and 17. And Portland, who was just talented, was 35 and 15. But that Spurs team

and that Malone Stockton team that year, where there's the familiarity and all that stuff, plus injury luck, right? Utah hasn't, for whatever reason, they haven't had any of the COVID stuff, things like that. But I thought the most interesting thing I've read or heard about the jazz

was said by the one and only Brad Stevens, having a rough year, but this quote was great. He talked about, after they played them, he said about the jazz, they're so difficult to defend because they have answers to every coverage you throw at them. They've got excellent one-on-one players in Mitchell Bogdanovich

and Clarkson, and then they've got a ton of guys that can shoot it, move it, or drive it. I think it's the closest team to the 2014 San Antonio Spurs that we've played. The way the ball moves, how quickly the right decision is made, the ball doesn't stick. So when I read that,

three seconds or less, right? that, then this made sense to me because before it's like, nah, they can't, they don't have the superstar. You need a top five player to compete Miami aside in the bubble last year. But I think you throw away the bubble last year that it's really hard to pull lessons from that. Um, but when he said the 2014 Spurs, now I'm like, all right. And I went back. He's got your attention, right? Well, I went back and looked at their regular season. They didn't have a guy average 17 points a game that year in the playoffs. I mean, in the regular season, Parker was the leading scorer at 16.7.

They had six guys in double figures. Interestingly, they shot 39.7% from three that year in the regular season. They were even better in the playoffs. Utah is exactly the same, basically. But so that framework, and that was, remember that year? That was a weird year, right? Miami was kind of dying. The Warriors weren't ready yet.

The Cooper self-combusted. OKC, they kind of self-combusted too. And the Spurs kind of slid in. So that would be the recipe for the Jets. Well, but that was the Spurs revenge tour too. Remember, they lost in excruciating fashion the year before.

And I don't think you can discount that. They were just on a mission all the way through. The other interesting thing about that Spurs team, they shot the three really well, but they didn't shoot

a lot of threes until the playoffs. Who does that? I mean, there was some crazy things about that team. And I still argue that Pop puts Boris Diaw into the starting lineup

for Game 3 and he turns that series on its ear. And Boris Diaw is the unspoken hero of that championship season. And I think a guy like Royce O'Neal

could be that kind of guy. I really do. And you need... The thing is, when I watch them play, they're having fun. And when I watch so many of these other teams

right now, they look miserable. I think when I watch so many of these other teams right now, they look miserable. I think it's, you know, I've been talking to, I've been talking to coaches and GMs and a couple of players in the last week, cause I'm working on a story and about the bubble actually, which is crazy, but I can't get away from it because I just think it reverberates through all of this year. I think players are tired, mentally fatigued, physically over, you know, worked, overstimulated. So any, to me, anybody that wants to take a rest day or during this year should do it. I just think you watch these teams and they look when things get bad and that's how we always measure a team, right? Is when things get really tough, how do you respond? It just feels to me like a lot of

these guys are just like, oh, this again, Like, man, I'm tired, you know? Well, don't you think what you just said about basketball players kind of goes for everybody, right? Now that we're a year in this pandemic thing. And it's like, everything's got repercussions, especially for these guys. And they have to be over and over again at their best. They're getting tested every day.

It's not that fun to go to work. I would argue it was way more fun to go to work if you played for a basketball team two years ago. Yeah, that's it. And it's, and it's cumulative because you say, all right, well, I can, it's just like everybody dealing with the pandemic, right? You're like, all right, if it's, if it's only another couple months, I can do it. I can do it. But it just keeps running together and running together. And, and the other thing that I just think is underreported is the people that actually got COVID that are playing in the NBA. I think there's residuals.

You know, Jason Tatum alluded to it the other day. His wind, right? Didn't he say like his wind hasn't totally been the same? Yeah. Michael Porter Jr., I think he's a young, healthy stud, you know. Kendrick Nunn was another one. It took him a long time to bounce back. And he seems like he's back. Kendrick Nunn, the return of Kendrick Nunn, another one. It took him a long time to bounce back. And he seems like he's back.

Kendrick Nunn, the return of Kendrick Nunn, along with a pretty good winning streak for the Miami Heat. It feels like he's, you know, he's found his way maybe back to the rotation because he was a name that you started to hear a little bit that might be thrown into a trade here or there. And he might still be, of course, but he's kind of come,

he's kind of rounded back into form. So, yeah. So, going back to the jazz, but off what you just said, like you're right. When you watch all these teams, it doesn't seem like a lot of teams are playing with what you call joy, you know? And

I think that's one thing with this jazz team. They've been together long enough that it really does seem like they enjoy playing with each other. They also have a lot of quirky kind of one-on-one type of dudes and, you know, going back to the Spurs comparison, they can play defense. That Spurs team could get stops.

As weird as it was, they were really flexible. They had young Kawhi about to blossom into, you know, the Kawhi that we know. But they also had the know-how and they had multiple bigs and they could kind of go a little smaller, a little bigger, depending on who is out there. And the Jazz are second offense, second defense right now. The offense, I don't think, sustains, but I think the defense will.

I do think they're a top three defensive team. Yeah, and I haven't looked recently, but their point differential the other day was like plus 10. It's far and away the best in the league, and people will say, well, so what? But that's a really good indicator. The teams with the best point differentials almost always ends up in the finals. So then the question becomes, this is the fun game that we all play,

but can they pair up with the big three in Brooklyn or the big two in L.A.? You can't make the argument that Gobert and Mitchell are better than LeBron and AD or KD and Kyrie or KD and Harden or Harden, you know, any of those three. But then you just have to say, well, their depth maybe makes a difference. I mean, Bogan, we haven't even seen him yet. Really? You know, he's been hurt. He's playing great. So they go pretty deep. And like I said, everybody can shoot. They take care of the basketball. And they look to, you know, think about Mike Conley too. Like basketball. Think about Mike Conley, too. I was thinking about Mike Conley. Last year, Mike

Conley was so bad they had to bench him. He had to come off the bench. He didn't fit with that team. He'd been playing in Memphis all those years and he came in and it didn't really seem to work. I would say it works now. Once again, the best player never to make an

all-star team. I guess he's going to go down in history as that. Well, that's my theory. It's the best thing that could happen to him. We'll remember him forever as the guy who could make it. Yeah, I think the irony of all of this is if they end up playing the Lakers again and there's that 2014 Spurs kind of parallel, that's the team that knocked out the 2014 Heat, right?

And it was because they didn't have the depth. They didn't want to chase the ball. And you could see being at those games, game three, game four, they basically broke the Heat. I feel like if they had played another 10 games, I think they would have won every one of those games. And, you know, that might be how you beat

this Lakers team too, especially you want to make LeBron run around. You want to make him work on the other end. And Davis, we don't know if Davis is going to be 80%, 85%. Who knows? Yeah, that's a nasty injury. You know, it's funny you mentioned LeBron. I did a real deep dive piece on those 2014 Spurs.

I spent a lot of time looking at them a year later. I remember talking to Shane Battier, who played for the Heat at that time, and he said, they did what we all dreaded. They got us into the mixer, is what he called it. And what the mixer means is you got to recover, recover, recover. So the whole motto of that Spurs team was three seconds or less. You hold the ball for three seconds or less and you pass it. Pass, pass. All right, I got a good shot. If I pass it to him, it's a better shot, but we want a great shot. And you just keep passing it. And what that requires LeBron to do, who's really the epicenter of every defense he ever plays on when he's engaged and when it matters, which is in the playoffs, he's got to recover, recover, recover. And now think about it. We're talking about 2014. Now this is seven years later in 2021. And they were trying to wear LeBron down in 2014. So if you're the Jazz, you want to do the same thing in 2021. And it takes a lot of energy out of you.

And Shane was saying that, like, you know, they literally exhausted us just making us chase the ball. Where does Mitchell rank for you among everybody else here? Obviously, he's not one of the best 11 guys in the league, but I think you can make a case he's on that next level with Tatum and a whole bunch of those guys, right?

Yeah, and the thing is, what I like about him is his, what's the word? His temperament, I guess is what it is. He doesn't sulk. He doesn't, I mean, everybody doesn't like calls, but like Jason Tatum's borderline, like stop, he's Kevin McHale-like, like with the calls. Like, come on, man, get like calls, but like Jason Tatum's borderline, like stop. He's Kevin McHale like like with the calls.

Like, come on, man. Get beyond it. You know, and Mitchell that that pull up three. I love that. That's something he obviously worked on for the very, very, very short offseason, although he was starting to do it in the bubble anyway. But I just feel like he's one of these kids that he is nowhere near satisfied with where he is. And he's one of those kids that seems to me that I understand,

yeah, what happened last year was cool, but we didn't even win that series. So I haven't won anything yet. And sometimes these young guys are like, oh, I made it. And then you start to, when the game goes bad, they, they quit or they sulk. And I just don't see that with Donovan Mitchell. Yeah. And it's funny. There was some Conley or Mitchell for that all-star spot.

Right. That was going around. And to me, it was like, this is Mitchell's team. He's the best guy in the team. Yeah. He's carrying the biggest load and he's also having a really good season.

Like I think if he was playing four or five more minutes a game, if they, if their games are a little bit closer, he'd be in the 27, 28-point-a-game range. I think he's shooting the three the best I've ever seen him in his career. His shooting looks different to me. It looks—I mean, it's too simple to say it looks confident. It's more—it just looks smoother.

It looks like it's— He's 39% this year. 39% he's making 3 it just looks smoother. It looks like it's 39% this year. 39% is making 3.3 a game. And he's also getting to the free throw line. I think he's been, you know, the question for me is like, they're going to have to win four straight playoff series.

There's going to be a playoff series where you're going to get in the mano a mano thing like he was in with Murray last year. I think all the experience he's gotten with that has really helped him. And then they have like these weird heat check guys. Like the Clarkson thing like he was in with Murray last year. I think all the experience he's gotten with that has really helped him. Then they have these weird heat check guys. The Clarkson thing, does he become Lou Williams in the playoffs? This is great in game 50, but

when we really need you, all of a sudden you're two for 20. He was so flighty before, but we've talked about this a thousand times. For 85% of the league, fit is everything. For the 15%, the superstars,% of the league, fit is everything. You know, for the 15%, the superstars, they can play anywhere. You plug them into a team, they're great. You know, LeBron can go to any team, obviously Giannis, all those guys. But guys like Jordan

Clarkson, you need a coach that believes in you and a coach that wants to accent your skills in a way that makes you feel good. Not just him, but you as well. That's the thing that when we talk about fit, it's not always how the coach wants to fit you. It's like, are you on board with how the coach wants you to fit? I think that plays a big part. And, you know, Jordan Clarkson, this is heaven on earth for him. Are you kidding? Well, and green light he has.

Oh, yeah. When you have the score off the bench and the coach is just like, do your thing. Go for it. Yeah. You're my guy. But again, if we start projecting to the playoffs and he has a two for 11 game, what does it do to him? And what does it do to the confidence of his team? And what it does, does it do to the confidence of his coach? That's, we don't know that that's

the unknown. Um, a couple of people have pointed this out, but I do love this wrinkle with the jazz. When you think about just how they were built, they only had one lottery pick since Favors, like a high lottery pick. And it was Exum, which was basically a bust. They could have had Smart or Randall. Was that the fourth pick? I think it was fourth or fifth.

And then there was that year they drafted Trey Lyles over Devin Booker, which in retrospect is a disaster. But they turned Lyles. That was that crazy trade that I think nobody even remembers. It was Lyles and the number 24 to Denver for 13. They take Mitchell at 13. So they used the Lyles pick to get Mitchell.

So they end up with somebody awesome anyway. Oh, yeah. And then Exum ends up being how they got Clarkson. So the two big draft mistakes they made actually are two of the biggest reasons they have this good team now. But yeah, that Lyles trade,

that's kind of like the last trade. I forgot that. Yeah, I forgot about that. Well, I have some other good stuff for you on that trade, but we're going to take a quick break. This episode is brought to you

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York U's programs are strategically designed to prepare students for a meaningful career and long-term success. Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. All right, going back to that trade, Lyles trade. So you could do,

I don't think it would be necessarily an award-winning documentary, but you could do a documentary about the three weeks leading up to the 2017 draft and then the 2017 draft itself because you have that crazy false Tatum, that whole saga. You have that.

You have the Lakers just committing to Lonzo for reasons that remain unclear. And you have all that going on. But then you also have the Paul George sweepstakes. Right. And you have the Kyrie getting wind of the Paul George sweepstakes from that Cleveland that he was being thrown around. Right. And if you go back and you look at all those trades and I had forgotten some

of this, you know, Danny takes, and we'll, we're going to, we're going to save the Celtics for the tail end of this pot. So people can turn off. Um,

but just in case they don't want to hear it anymore, but people, they always talk about, well, that Celtics weren't aggressive enough. They weren't, you know, they hoard all these picks and everything, but people, Zach always talk about, wow, the Celtics weren't aggressive enough. They weren't, you know, they hoarded all these picks and everything.

But people, Zach reported after the Paul George trade to Oklahoma City that the Celtics put that Brooklyn pick that ended up being Tatum on the table in February for Paul George. And Indiana held up because their thinking was if we can get Paul George basically for two seasons, he'll want to stay. So they don't get them. Then they make another run at them, uh, in 2017, at the same time, Denver's making a run at him with like, you know, this Trey Lyles and a whole bunch of crap, basically. I can't believe we've mentioned Trey Lyles as many time already. I know. I can't believe it. Uh, then you have Cleveland trying to get this four team or go in that Kyrie was in. He hears that. That's what leads to him wanting out. And then you have the Lakers

basically saying, we're good. We're not going to go after him. And then everybody's like, oh, because you have a deal with Paul George already. And you have all this shit's happening at the same time. Then he ends up in OKC, goes to OKC, and two years later, they're able to turn him

into 100,000 draft picks. Right. But that night was this weirdly pivotal night that affects, I don't know, seven different franchises? And it's so funny

because it just always comes back to Indiana, doesn't it? Because then Paul George came out afterwards, if I'm not mistaking, and said that Anthony Davis was willing to come

to Indianapolis, right? Didn't he say that? I think Paul George said that. Do you believe that, though? Well, whether I believe not mistaking, and said that Anthony Davis was willing to come to Indianapolis, right? Didn't he say that? I think Paul George said that. Do you believe that, though? Well, whether I believe it or not, the fact that Paul George is talking that way to me is insane, you know? Right. And so, I mean, I hope Paul George, I like what Paul George has done this year. I like the way he's handled his critics. And I was a little hard on him. And then I went back and listened to some of his comments from the bubble and some of the struggles he had, mental health related again. And I felt bad about being tough on him, you know.

But I will say this about Paul George. Like, you can't just keep blowing your way out of town and not expect some blowback on that when you do that, you know. He's not, it's not like he didn't wait to be a free agent. Each time he got himself traded somewhere else. You know? Yeah, he was pretty unhappy that 16-17

Indiana season. Yeah, I'll say. You think like, imagine if they had done that trade for the Tatum pick in February and the Celtics had pulled, and it would have been that Brooklyn pick and a whole bunch of, then they would have had,

they would have had Paul George on that team for that weird run they had, like the last great Isaiah Thomas run, right? When they- Well, that would have been quite different. Yeah. Yeah, and then so you put Paul George in there instead of, you know,

whoever the hell was getting, Jay Crowder, I guess, was getting some of those minutes. Right. But yeah, it was, there was a lot of what-ifs stemming from that. And one of the biggest ones was that somehow Utah gets Donovan Mitchell for 24 and Trey Lyles,

which, and I went back and I read some of the pieces and some of the pieces were like, good deal for Denver. Trey Lyles, only 21. Natural guy to put next to Jokic. Like he did have pretty good stock, but now it seems like, man, that's one of the most one-sided trades we've had. But sometimes I, like, I don't always know.

I don't always know that it's fair. Like you just said, who was it? Booker got, who did they take instead of Booker? They took Lyle's over Booker. Over Booker, right. So I think sometimes that's a little tough because guys coming out of college, it's such an inexact science.

So, you know, like sometimes I don't know how fair that is, honestly. Booker was, that was, he was 2015, right? Yeah. Booker was, he was 13th. So he was bookended by Trey Liles at 12 and Cameron Payne at 14. Nice little role player, Cameron Payne at 14. Nice little role player, Cameron Payne. It's a weird one. But the thing, I think people eventually, maybe now they realize with quickly on the Knicks that maybe just bet on the Kentucky guys. Yeah. Like they're getting the best pedigree possible.

Quickly, let's stay on the West for one second with the Utah thing. This Davis thing with the Lakers. A little concerning. Well, I think he with the Lakers, a little concerning. Well, I think he's going to be out a little longer. I never trust when they say, Oh,

three to four weeks. To me, that means six. Same thing with, I would keep him. I would keep him out as long as I need to. Cause they go nowhere without him. Clearly, clearly.

Yeah. But at once, at what point does LeBron have to start saving for the playoffs? I don't think he can win the MVP if Davis is going to miss one third of the season, just because I think it's too much of an energy workload for him. I think he cares about the titles more than winning another MVP. But at what point do you have to really be careful with LeBron? Because all the mileage with the bubble and all that stuff,

out of any year, isn't this the year to be careful with him? Yeah, but good luck trying to be careful with him. He's one of those guys that doesn't want you to tell him how many minutes he's going to play, what games he's going to sit out. He's just not on board with that. And I think it's because he feels like he knows his body better than anybody else.

You know, he uses his own trainers outside the team, has done that everywhere. He's gone. And it's kind of hard to argue with the results. The guy's an Ironman. He doesn't miss a ton of games. But I agree with you a hundred percent. But I think that's a really tall order to tell him to sit. I think I don't think it goes well. You know, it's kind of like Murray, Jamal Murray's another one of those kids. You know, he was brought up by his father. You play through pain. You use your meditation, your mental toughness, you play through pain. You use your meditation, your mental toughness.

You play through everything. And, you know, there's some value in that. But you also end up getting nicked up and playing hurt a lot, you know? Well, LeBron's about to pass 50,000 minutes. He's also played almost 11,000 playoff minutes. So we are now in Kareem, Carl Malone, and him, basically. That's it. Well, and he just passed Malone for the most career turnovers. He just passed him, I think I just read... So we are now in Kareem Terrence. Kareem, Carl Malone, and him. Basically, that's it. Well, and he just passed Malone

for the most career turnovers. He just passed him, I think, last week. Most career turnovers. It feels like he's going to have... Every record. By the time this finally ends. Yeah, it'll be like any total record he'll probably have except for...

The points is going to be tough. It is. That would need a few more healthy seasons, but... Well, and he seems determined to try to play with his son. And I'm like, can you let your son get through high school first? Right. Can you let your son be an NBA player first? Like we have no idea.

He had knee surgery. He had knee surgery too. Bronny did the other day. Oh, that's not good. What was the knee? Torn meniscus. Torn meniscus. So I wish him a speedy recovery.

He's by all accounts a really great kid. But's, by all accounts, a really great kid. But yeah, I think it's a lot of pressure. Do you think that... Are these teams... Obviously, we're factoring fans at least a little bit. But I still feel like with the way the playoffs are going to go, I'm not sure the seeds matter this year. Because even by the time we have fans back,

what does that mean? You're playing in front of 50% capacity in Utah. I think it matters more for Utah from the altitude standpoint than the actual home court advantage standpoint. I don't know. From talking to people that have been in arenas with fans, they said it's surprising how much of a boost it is. And I think it's just because fans are now a novelty again.

So I think there is a little boost there for the home team. Now, you know, we don't have any left. It's really anecdotal evidence at this point. But I think by the end,

I mean, Boston, on March 29th, will have their first, the Celtics will play in front of fans. Lucky for them, we'll be able to hear the Celtics get booed

for the first time at home. Luckily, they haven't been playing in front of fans. But for them, they haven't. We'll be able to hear the Celtics get booed. I know, right? For stepping up. Luckily, they haven't been playing in front of fans. But so I think by the time the NBA season concludes, I think almost every arena is going to have some fans in it. But the seating, to me, I understand your point. Where is Miami seated right now? So Miami is seventh. Yeah, seventh.

So who knows where they'll end up. But Drogic is healthy again. They look to me like they're on their way here again. They're starting to settle in. And Drogic is so important to them. And think about them and how close they were to trading him last year. I mean, he was gone. And they do not do what they did in that bubble without Goran Dragic. He's really,

really important to them. And you know he is because Butler loves him and has developed this incredibly close relationship with him because he understands how important he is. But, you know, I was looking at it. It felt like anybody could add Dragic before the start of the last regular season. Right. That's right. He was an expiring contract. Yeah, but I mean, I've always loved him. You watch him and you go, well, he's not going to get that. Oh, yeah, he did. He's not going to get that shot if he did. But yeah, they've got like they were.

They've managed their turnovers better. You know, they were throwing the ball all over the lot before. And, you know, of course, they had guys in and out for COVID and all that. But I wondered about Tyler Hero. He was another guy that I wondered, you know, he became such a celebrity in the bubble and the snarl. And I thought, all right, but he hasn't had a lot of institutional knowledge yet. He hasn't played, you know, can he keep up his end of the bargain? And he has. He has. He's been pretty good. I think he's shooting, I wrote it down somewhere, shooting 37%, I think, or no, sorry, 34%,

35% from three. Nunn shooting 38% from three. Duncan Robinson, of course, he's at almost 40%. And then we have Jimmy Butler, who's at 21%. But you almost know

playoff Jimmy will be different. It's all fine. The biggest ways they're different from last year is Hero the third-point line. But you almost know playoff Jimmy will be different. It's all fine. Yeah, it's all fine. The biggest ways they're different from last year is Hero, just year two for Hero.

I don't feel like he's had the hot streak yet. Like, his stats are what they are. He's still averaging 17 a game, which I was kind of surprised by,

but he'll have a two-week stretch where he goes nuts. Yeah, he's not afraid of anybody. The Kendrick Nunn piece I think is important. I know we talked about him earlier,

but he was basically a wash in the playoffs last year. Now, he's playing 30 minutes a game for them. He's shooting the three again. Gets to the free throw line a little bit. I think he gives it

a little spark sometimes. As you know, I'm tortured by the Celtics. The Celtics don't have anybody on their team other than Pritchard sometimes who can come in and flip a game for five minutes,

even though Pritchard's been playing badly. Yeah, he's been in a terrible slump. Yeah. No, and, you know, Kelly Olenek's played pretty decent. Now, if you look at his shooting percentages, they're not that good. But he's playing like 23 minutes a game. He's given them some pretty good. And he's in a, I think this is, he's in a contract year, I think.

I don't have it in front of me, but. No, he is. Yeah, I think they're going to be all I mean and and Pat will Pat will do something now I mean are they really gonna take on DeMarcus Cousins that surprised me when I when I saw that I think he's done I I don't see it I don't see it for Miami and you know someone mentioned Boston I definitely don't see that at all one thing one thing I'm good at is knowing when running backs, centers, and goalies are done. Okay. So let me ask you this. Yeah, those are three of my talents.

Here's what I want to ask you then, because one of my colleagues said to me, P.J. Tucker is cooked. He's done. So I started asking around and it's pretty split. Again, the last couple of days I've spoken, some people think, no, no, he's going to be alright. You just have to utilize him better, use his minutes. He can't play 30 minutes in a game anymore. Don't ask him to do that. Don't ask him to guard centers every minute of every game.

But then some other guys have said to me, yeah, I don't know, I don't know. So what do you think, P.J. Tucker? 35 years old, looks done. But season from hell. I feel like you could rejuvenate him pretty quickly. Like if he went to the Nets, I feel like it would be back in a week and a half.

He's such a gamer. To me, Cousins was like, that dude just doesn't have legs anymore. Like he never came back from the Achilles. He's not explosive anymore. Defensively, he's, you he's a zero out of 10. Well, you know what? I think you're right. And when Golden State moved on from him, I remember seeing him. I was in LA to do some shows. So I was out there for a week and Golden State was in town and he was at a restaurant. This is before COVID, obviously. And he looked really good. He was thin. He was trim. He was engaged. Like I ran into him. He

said hello. I just was like, wow, the warrior mystique has worked here. You know, it felt to me like he might've found himself a nice little niche, a nice little home. Yeah. But, and then it didn't happen. So then I thought after that, I thought, well, if you can't make it there with that staff and those coaches and that GM and those players, I don't know. Well, he had a torn Achilles and a torn ACL. Yeah, it's terrible. And you're talking about somebody who's carrying 270, 280, whatever. I don't know what his perfect playing shape is.

By the way, how old is he? He's not that old. No, he's not. He's early that old. No, he's not. He's early 30s. Because he was in the, I think the 2009 draft or 2000. Yeah, I always forget. 2008 draft? When I see his age, I'm always like, what? Because you feel like he's 40, like he's been around forever.

And he hasn't been. So I'm trying to look it up right now. I'm with you that I think Miami has to move to make. Yeah. The question for me is, you know, they have the Olena contract and they have the Aguadala contract. They could actually patch together 30, 35 million of money if they wanted to. I just don't know who the perfect person is for them. Well, I mean, would they give up Kendrick Nunn for the right person?

I've heard Rudy Gay is for them. Well, I mean, would they give up Kendrick Nunn for the right person? I've heard Rudy Gay connected to them. Rudy Gay's having a really good year for the Spurs. He's older, 33, 34. By the way, DeMarcus Cousins is 30. Wow. He's 30 years old. Isn't that crazy?

He's like Benjamin Button. So I think he's Rudy Gay size, can defend a little bit, can shoot a little bit. I've seen him. I've seen his name connected to Miami. Yeah, but if you're the Spurs, Spurs are a five seed right now. They're awesome.

17 and 12 as we're taping this, and they have a negative point differential, which I always appreciate when the team's five games over 500, but they're minus one. This might be the best coaching job Poppy has ever done because he's got LaMarcus Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan over here that want to play this way. And then he's got this really young cadre of guys, you know, DeJounte Murray, Lonnie Walker. I'm forgetting. I always forget one.

Who am I forgetting? Yeah, the really good guy. There's all these young guys running around. Derek White. Derek White. Derek White. And, you know, they... So he's got them playing two different styles. And now he's got them melding together. And he's completely resurrected DeMar DeRozan. I wonder if they would trade DeMar DeRozan at the deadline. Would someone want him?

I might want him if I'm a veteran team. I wouldn't... It's an expiring contract, you know? Yeah, but like what kind of contender is a DeMar DeRozan away from actually like winning the title? Like anybody who's actually contending. By the way, the other guy we left out was Keldon Johnson, who's only 21 years old. The Duke kid, yeah. He is so much fun to watch.

He's fantastic. I'm pushing back though on Pop's greatest coaching job. I still feel like the 2014 season. Well, yeah. To come back. It's called hyperbole, Bill. It's called hyperbole, dude. To come back from their version

of the Bill Buckner game, basically, it would be like if the 87 Red Sox won the World Series. I know, it's true. I still can't believe the mental toughness that team had, especially being in the building for how devastated that was. And they just like...

The ropes, baby. The ropes were out. The ropes were out. And they made it a rallying cry and it just made them tougher. Yeah, they did. And all three of them weren't sure if they wanted to come back. All three of those guys were contemplating retirement, if you can believe it.

Tim Ginobili. Ginobili had a bad series. Kind of a bad year, really. He really wasn't himself. And he actually was like, I don't know if I want to. Should I keep doing this? Am I done? You know, you were saying, you know, when guys are done.

He was asking. He's looking in the mirror going, am I done? I don't feel like I'm done. And he took a huge pay cut to come back. And the other thing he did was he always trained with the Argentinean national team in the summer. And that was the first time he didn't do that. He just stayed in the U S and worked on his body. And remember his body changed a little bit. He got, he was always, you know, in good shape, but he got kind of ripped. And to me, Ginobili above all, he took that so personally, he felt responsible for it and took a huge pay cut

to come back and to be Ginobili again. You know, he's just a fantastic player. One of the things I remember about that game five was, and I don't,

I think it was right as the game ended and then like that 15 minutes when everybody's celebrating and Pop just stayed on the bench and you know, everybody else is walking around hugging or whatever. And he was like, so emotional about it. Like he kind of couldn't walk around or do anything. And, uh, and that was when I realized like, Oh man, this guy, you know, he's put himself through the ringer. Cause he

kind of screwed up that game. Say the Rayon game pop, right? Partially responsible. And think about that. He made a decision that he thought was right because he didn't know about Timmy being able to go out and guard the three point shooter. Takes him. Now imagine taking your secret favorite player of all time. The one you credit for completely establishing this dynasty and you have to take him out and he's not happy.

Right. And then it doesn't work, you know? It's bad. So, it's just, I'll never agree with it. We're talking about

fun possible free agent trade people. Actually, let's take a break and we'll do this. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend that powers your scale with no preset spending limit. More cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days.

And the ability to reach further with access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine Possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum. All right, coming back. You mentioned Rudy Gay as a possible free agent. Yeah, I don't know if they would trade him.

Free agent to be a trade target. So we got Thad Young, B. Jalika, Evan Fournier. I'm going to throw Rondo in there just because. B. Alitza. B. Alitza. B. Alitza. B. Alitza. I'm throwing in Rondo because I feel like Rondo is like the half and half that got left on the counter. And you might be able to use it in the coffee, but it also might put huge chunks in the coffee. Who else is in there for you that is a possible trade target?

Well, you've hit some of them. I mean, P.J. Tucker, we talked about that before. Let's see if his half and half has an odor to it. How about George Hill is another guy who really hasn't played much because he's been hurt. But he might be someone that people would consider. And then this guy does not fall into this category at all. But I am watching very closely

if Atlanta trades John Collins. John Collins is a really good young basketball player. He's 23 years old. He averages almost a double-double. He's bouncy. And, you know, he's betting on himself. He turned down the $90 million extension. Do they want to pay him?

They're going to have to pay Trey Young. We know that. What happens with John Collins? So what's going on with him from an off-the-court standpoint? Is he a good character, teammate slash, or is he a going-for-my-own-stats guy? Like, what's going on there? Because it seems like they're lukewarm on him and I don't understand why. I don't, I don't either. And, uh,

I don't, I don't have inside knowledge of that, but I've interviewed him a bunch of times. He is polite. He's engaging. He's, uh, you know, I think he's fantastic. He doesn't mind speaking his mind. You know, he and Trey go at each other. I think it helps the team when they do that. Now, he did have, remember, he did get suspended for the banned substance. Remember, he had a suspension. But I don't know.

That seems like a crazy thing for teams to, I mean, teams don't like that, obviously. But I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. It just seems to me like he's a no-brainer, right? Teams don't like that, obviously. But I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. It just seems to me like he's a no-brainer, right? Unless you don't want to pay him? I don't know.

They offered him $90 million. It's not like they didn't offer him anything. He decided, I think I'm worth more. And we'll see if he's right. He's my dream Celtic pickup. Oh, yeah. It's never happening, though. I don't, I don't think they have the, yeah, they don't have that kind of trophy asset to throw in there, but no way, no way. I mean, unless you, well, you're not going to, I mean, Tatum and Brown

are off limits. Now the question, I guess the big question for the Celtics and Marcus Smart has, you know, once again, proven his value by being out. You know, he's probably their most viable trade asset. Would you agree? Yeah, but I would also say he became more valuable over the last three weeks when you saw what they looked like without him. The team I was thinking about for Collins was Sacramento because they have a Bagley issue, right?

Like for whatever is going on there, Bagley is not one of their two most important people. Yeah. And I don't think he's going to be happy playing 21 minutes a game for the next three years of his career. And I was wondering if there was

some sort of Collins-Bagley something. Huh. Interesting. I mean, those teams have dealt together before with the Bogdanovich thing where, right. Right. You know, they knew,

they knew Atlanta was making that offer and they're like, Oh my God, Atlanta made it. They knew that whole thing was done. Well, that just got botched. Yeah. I got botched.

I got botched. And then, then they couldn't honor it. You know, that's just right. Fines and everything. You know, it's interesting Sacramento because we remember we used to have on our list,

Harrison Barnes, but I've been told they're not moving on from Harrison Barnes, which means they, they want to win, right? They've got new front office, you know, they want to win. So Bagley for John Collins. Why, if you're Atlanta, why would you do that? I think the Kings would have to put in more stuff. I guess if you're the Kings. Yeah. If you're the Kings, you're 13 in more stuff. I guess if you're the Kings. Yeah.

If you're the Kings, you're 13 and 20. You have a worse record than Oklahoma City, who went into the season hoping they were going to be the worst team in the league. Right, right. And somehow they're as good as New Orleans in a game up on, or a half game up on Sacramento. So it probably makes sense to keep Bagley. But I was thinking like, if you're

Atlanta and you have this Collins asset that he's going to leave, he's going to sign with somebody else. You're probably not paying him 120 million or whatever next season. Um, maybe you flip him for an asset that you don't have to pay. Like marketing would be another guy, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I just, I, he, I'm curious to see what happens with him. Because they're losing. They're really in a slide, Atlanta. They had some real promise there at the start of the year, then they completely smoked the Celtics. But I think that had more to do with the Celtics third game and four nights thing. But you spent time with Trey. I did. You did a piece about, um,

how many weeks, like two weeks ago? Yeah. Two or three. Yeah. Two or three weeks. One of the conceits of the piece was like, he's always been this kid from,

uh, day one. Day one. He was the little guy who was putting himself in the front of the photo team. And, and that's just who he is. And he rubs some people the wrong way. I don't know how easy he'd be to play with because shot selection and just in general,

I don't think it's dawned on him yet. The whole concept of the position I play, I win when everybody else is better. But he's also a work in progress. He's young. I'm probably too hard on him because he's so talented. Well, he's an exceptional passer. I mean, never mind the shooting from the logo and all that. You know, because I tried to watch as much film as I could

before I talked to him. And he's just an... I mean, some of the passes he makes, I can't even believe they get through, you know, and he's throwing 30 foot lefty bounce passes on the break. I mean, so I do think he understands. And, you know, I talked to Rondo for the piece actually about, about, uh, Trey and, and Rondo's like, no, he's getting it. I talked to him all the time about what's the best shot. Is it you or is it someone

else? And he said there were three instances he was talking about the previous week where he said, I knew he just wanted to come over and shoot the three, but he worked the shot clock down because, you know, you got you got pick and roll partners. You got John Collins, Clint Capella. It's it's easy, easy assist layups. I mean, you know, so I think he saw the value in it, but they're just man, they're on a dive. I'm surprised. They've had some injuries and stuff too, like everybody, right? Like everybody. I just, it

seems like a fantasy team to me and not an actual team that makes sense as a basketball team, right? Not having Hunter, I think, has, when he went out, that murdered him because he was their second best guy. A hundred percent. He's really,

really important to them. And it really did crush them. I don't think he's back for a while either. He's, you know, no, he was important to them. And,

and you know, it's funny, like Gallinari missed huge chunks of time. Um, and then it just goes in like, I don't know how many, what was he? 13 or 15 from the floor against the Celtics? He was his only good game of the year.

It's like, you got to be kidding me. Yeah. Here's my question with Trey, because I've been thinking about this, because I've been thinking about how good Kyrie has looked in some of these Brooklyn games and why that is, right? And I think the reason is, the way he was being used in Boston

is really not the optimal way to use Kyrie, where he has the ball all the time. He's actually better when he's in that 2017 Cavs role, when it's like, he's over here, he takes over sometimes. He's not the lead playmaker. He's actually almost like an off-guard. But then sometimes he can take over,

and anytime you go to him, it's a mismatch on whatever. And sometimes I wonder if that's, if Trae Young's destiny as a player is more that Kyrie kind of path versus like being Steve Nash. So the reason Steve Nash was so great was because he was the most, he was too unselfish. Teams would have game plans to force him to shoot more because they wanted to take away all his passing stuff. Right, his passing lanes. Yeah. And I just don't think Trey is wired like that. Trey's a scorer first.

He's a great passer, but he's a scorer first. That's who he is. 100%. He is. Like, when he steps over half court, he thinks he can make all of those shots. And he can make a lot of them. But the problem with it is, you know, depending on the score of the game, when you do that, when you step over the line and you shoot a 28 to a 30 footer

and it doesn't go in your teammates are all like what the hell is that man you know and he knows it and he knows it and he like we talked about it he knows it he's working on it he said look i i know everybody's not wired like me i know i have to see things and be more patient like he that's why i i'm bullish on him because i i think he's young and he's learning and he doesn't like losing. And look, he didn't make the all-star team this year. And I remember Michael Jordan,

when Reggie Lewis made his first all-star team, Jordan said, yeah, that's all well and good, but that's an easy one. The second one's the hard one. And it's true. And so Trey doesn't make the cut this year. So am I mistaken? Did he get in a, did the fans vote him in? Was he as a starter last year? Last year he was, yeah. Yeah, he got voted in. So coaches are never going to pick Trey Young because he doesn't defend

and he wasn't playing on a winning team. You know how that is. Coaches vote for defense, for veterans and for guys that win. So Trey better, you know, you better win a little bit. And I'm sure he's really disappointed, you know, because certainly he had every right to think he was going to be an all-star.

I mean, he certainly has the numbers to back that up. He's really talented. I think the issue with his career right now, and I blame Atlanta, not him. I think from the get-go, they've treated him the same way,

like a high school team where like the coach's son, the offense runs around him. And it's just clear. It's like, no, it's the coach's son's team. Every, everything feeds through this guy.

We've got to make the coach's son look good. He's the apple of everybody's eye. And this is the way it is. And I, even their free agent moves are like that. Every free agent move they made was somehow Trey young related. Like why is Rondo on this team? Well,

he's there. How does it make sense? He's there to mentor Trey young. I really believe that. And you know, Rondo wants to be a coach and they paid him too much money probably. And I think terrible contract. Yeah.

But I think they probably think that there's a chance, if he can get a little bit of rhythm back here, and he's missed time, obviously, that he can be bubble Rondo, right? He can be playoff Rondo, which is a real thing. Statistically, the statistics prove it's a real thing. Now, at this juncture of his career, I'm not sure. But I can tell you that he has value to Trey Young.

If Trey Young is listening to him, which I hope he is, because what Rondo's telling him is pretty important. So I think that had much to do with it as anything. Can I give you the Rondo team? Going back to our discussion about trade free agent people. Although he's not a free agent. He's got two more years, but. Right.

I would love to see him on the Bucs. On the Bucs. On the Bucs. That's pretty interesting. So you flip him for DJ Augustine, who we know who DJ Augustine is at this point. And whatever else. And basically, Lena's getting off of the contract. And again, if you're a lottery team,

Rondo just does not want to be in a lottery team. Nobody can convince me. He's like, cool, this worked out so great. I'm so happy on this 13 seed. Um, but if you put him on the bucks with like the way his brain works and how competitive he is and, you know, and he's in crunch time, by the way, he's played with drew holiday before. And there's these weird crunch times where it's, it's him and drew holiday and Giannis and Chris Middleton and, I don't know, DeFrancengio, whatever you want to throw in as a fifth. But I just feel like he would play and be valuable and be kind of that badass dude they need. I think that would be a

smart move by them. Oh, that's interesting. And they don't seem to care about taking on money, I don't think. There's one other team I hesitate to mention. The Celtics of Boston. I don't see that. I don't see that. But I could be wrong, but I don't see that. Well. See?

See, when you start thinking about it, you're like, eh. Yeah. Well, it's just too much money. You know, it's too much money. I don't know. I mean, so who they, I mean, I can't shoot. I can't shoot.

He just can't shoot. Do you think, well, he could shoot if it's an important playoff game. Do you think Thad Young gets traded? I kind of do. There's so much noise about him. I feel like he will. Right now they're an eight seed. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe not, but, but is that all you really want to be? Is your only goal as the Bulls to make the playoffs?

That's your goal this year? Cause that, that might be Jerry Reinsdorf's goal. He's been around a long time and they haven't done much winning recently. So maybe that is what he wants to do. In which case, if on the Bulls, my goal the rest of the way is, what do I have with Carter and Markkinen? What are these guys? Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. I mean,

Carter was hurt. They've both been hurt a ton. Yeah. I mean, I like Kobe White. I know I like him, but they're just, they're like,

you know, they got a good coach there, but I don't know. They're too fragile, I guess is what I would say. Guys can't stay in the lineup. So you don't think that's a Porzingis possibility? Porzingis. Wow.

If you're the Dallas Mavericks, you're going to really swallow hard and say we made a mistake and move on from him. I don't know if you can move on because I don't know if you could get until he proves he can be healthy for three straight months. I think you're looking at 30 cents on the dollar for whatever offer. Right, you are. And I still think there's hope for him, although he is so big. You know, big. Just you worry with all the injuries he's had, if the weight and he's not

heavy. I don't mean to say that he's just a really big guy. I don't know. It's like the Rick Smith's Yao Ming thing. I mean, it's not as big as Yao is, but he's pretty much as big as Rick Smith's was. Yeah. And he's mobility, you know, no, maybe it's because he had the one thing I will say is he had no, again, shortened season, no chance to come off that surgery. I think that's another guy thought the season was going to start in January, which would have helped him a tremendous amount. He's literally working into conditioning on the floor during games. Cause there's no practices because there's no time.

And the, the biggest thing with him is the drop off defensively is shocking. He's a shell of himself as a defensive player so far. Now, again, I'm going to give him the gift of time to see if that's a permanent thing. He was a really good defender in New York. With him on the floor, the Mavericks just bleed. Like gushing blood with him on the floor. His on the court, off the court numbers are horrendous, horrendous defensively. His legs don't seem the same to me. I mean, I'm not, I'm not breaking news.

Yeah, it's mobile. It's mobility, but is that conditioning? You know, I don't know. I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer to that. I got to say Dallas being 16 and 16 is like a borderline miracle. It is like who who's played well on that team other than Luca. Well, you know, there's nights where you watch them where it's like, if Jalen Brunson didn't get hot for that quarter, we would have lost by 10. You're like, what is this team? Yeah. Well, and Hardaway is in and out, right?

If Jalen, it seems like either Brunson or Hardaway, one or the other has been hot. I think Max Cleaver is really important to them, and he's missed a huge amount of time. He came back, and then he was out again. I think he really settles them a bit, so I think he helps, and he's been back now a few games. Well, think about that sentence. You just said Max Kleber is really important to them.

That's kind of where they are as a team, right? No, they are. He's a make-or-break guy for them. Well, he is. He is. He really is. Yeah, they're an interesting team. They missed they are. He's a make or break guy for them. Well, he is. He is. He really is. Yeah, they're an interesting team. They missed Seth Curry.

That was a bad deal. That was a mistake. Yeah, that was a bad trade. A rare miss for them. Yep. Bad trade. What are you hearing from New Orleans? Because that team's been a rollercoaster ride.

And then the last two weeks, Stan finally just gave the car keys to Zion, basically. But it did feel like if they lost that Celtic game a week ago, it felt like that whole thing was going to completely crater. Go off the rails. They came back and now it's like, it's okay, but they're still 14 and 19. It's just so funny to me because Stan is such a defensive coach and he's just thrown up his hands and said, all right, nevermind. Just go plow through the paint and knock everybody over. He's like, he's like a, it's like playing candle pins bowling. And then you said, now the

heck with it. Let's play with the big ball. Just have a blow through everybody. He's such a sight to behold. Like when I watch him, I'm like, there's no way this guy can have a 10 year NBA career. You watch him go up and down, lumber up and down the court. You're like, there's no way. And then you just watch him destroy everything in his path. And you're like, okay, well, maybe. And, you know, Brandon Ingram, he seems so happy there. Like the Brandon Ingram from LA was nothing like that. He was skittish.

He was, you know, head down all the time. Like he's found his home, you know. Do you feel like those two long-term make sense? I think he can. Steven Adams was the one I didn't understand. That's what I didn't understand. Meaning? I didn't get that, you know?

And I don't really understand why Stan just sort of buried J.J. Reddick. And so did he bury him and then he started shooting badly? Or was he shooting badly so he buried him? It's like a chicken or egg thing with me. I don't think he ever got the minutes that he needed to beat J.J. Reddick.

Or maybe he's just done too. I don't know. How old's J.J.? He's getting up there. There's been signs of life with him the last couple weeks. Yeah, I love J.J. Reddick. Yeah.

You know who he plays really well with, which I think is relatively crucial here? Zion Williamson. Yeah, very well. They do nice stuff off each other

and I think that's why he's starting to get more time. Yeah. They do nice stuff off each other. And I think that's why he's starting to get more time. Yeah. I mean, cause he was also a buyout candidate or a trade, not a buyout so much as a trade possibility that people talked about him moving on. And I think he would help teams. I do.

I think he's just a guy that's been around and can make shots when they matter. I wouldn't trade him. The shocking thing for me is you catch Lonzo on most nights and he looks good. I think so, yeah. Like, I actually feel, like, hopeful. This whole thing,

I just can't get over. I was thinking about it last night because they had the LeVar, Kenan Thompson was playing LeVar Ball on SNL last night. Oh, he was. And I was thinking, like, LeVar fucking pulled this off.

I know, it's unbelievable. His son is awesome at Charlotte. He's going to win Rookie of the Year. And then Lonzo's like an above average starting guard. And he can hit shots now. He can hit shots. Yeah, no, it is. And then the third kid, what a shame.

Just going two for three is a miracle. What are the odds you're going to have three kids that are potential all-stars, you're a, your boy, MJ. It took 20 years, but it seems like he got one. He kind of might.

Yeah. Kind of know what he's doing. That team, Zach and I, Gordon. Yeah. Zach came on my podcast on Thursday where I was saying, that's my favorite league past team.

I really like watching that team. I like the way they play together. Terry Rozier is shooting 44% from the three-point line. Chew on that. Scary Terry. It's tough on. Yeah. So, is there a world where the Celtics never trade for Kyrie and Terry Rozier is just doing what he's doing right now on Charlotte

as the Celtics starting point guard? No? No. No. Because they never saw him in that way. And he was young. I mean, plus, Kyrie, you got to trade for Ky? No? No. No. Because they never saw him in that way. And he was young. I mean, plus Kyrie. You got to trade for Kyrie. Come on. No, I'm with you.

I signed up for him. Yeah, you got it. I mean, and it's a fact. I was watching Kyrie the other night and I'm like, wow, I forgot what a special, special basketball player he is. He's so good in every way.

He's so good. Especially when he's really like in it, you know? He when he's really in it. He's magical with the ball. I forgot how good he was. I hope this shoulder thing, it's kind of a little afterthought over shoulder maintenance, they called it. Maybe that's all it is. I hope that's all it is. I kind of raised my eyebrow to that. I hope that's all it is. It's just a day off. I hope that's, you know, I kind of raised my eyebrow out of that. I hope that's all it is. It's just a day off. I've lost my ability to discern what injuries are real and what's not real with these NBA when they have... Well, and this year, none of them, to me, they shouldn't even have to pretend there's an injury based on this crazy mixed up world they're

all in with the postponements and the delays and the, you know, and the idea that they all were told, you're going to come back January 22nd. And then like four days later or four weeks later, whatever, they're like, Oh, Nope, you'll be here in three weeks. I mean, you know, these guys spend a lot of money and time planning their training and planning rest and recovery, all those things. And, and, And a lot of guys have procedures thinking they had an extra four weeks than what they had. It's really turned this season upside down, I think. It's a great excuse, too, if you're not playing well.

Yeah. Like Bertans was one of those, like, ah, I didn't know the season was going to start because he started out, was out of shape. But it's like, it's pretty solid. Well, Doncic was, too. Doncic was also. Yeah.

Well, that was a lock. Uh, before we go to the next break, do your thing about, uh, Tibbs and Austin Rivers. Well, I just,

you know, I don't know if you saw this, but the game the other night, he wasn't even on the bench. And they said, you know, afterwards someone said, Oh,

he was getting treatment for his ankle, but like he never even came out. So Tibbs and Doc are like this. I mean, they are really tight. And when Tibbs was out of work, he spent a good portion of his time in L.A. with the Clippers and with Doc visiting practices, going around, you know, those two. And so when Austin was a free agent, you know, Daryl Daryl gets, gets into Philly and they, he's like, well, maybe we should go after, uh, you know, we should go after Austin rivers.

Doc was, you know, doc's there or whatever. And doc's like, no, I don't think that's good. Cause it wasn't good. It was not good for them to be together. Remember when Austin was playing against his dad and they were, he was cheering when his dad got thrown out. Right. Anyway.

So they trade for Derek Rose, who'sibbs is binky you know like everyone knew and awesome rivers doesn't play anymore and i'm just wondering like what happens at the next tibbs rivers you know tibideau rivers picnic like how's that gonna go because as much as doc you can try to be objective about your own child and your own son i can tell you because i when i did that story on the sixers earlier in the year, Daryl Morey told me that when he was with Houston, Doc used to call him and say,

you got to trade for Austin. You'll know how to use him. Like, so, you know, he was advocating for his son while he was the coach of an opposing team. And by the way, that's just human nature.

We do anything for our kids. You know that. Anything. And so I just wonder how it's all going to play out. We do anything for our kids. You know that. Right. Anything. And so, I just wonder how it's all going to play out. There's a team for him. They should trade him.

Well, they will. I mean, he's not playing. He's played like seven minutes since Derrick Rose came aboard. I think Denver would be a nice team for him. I do too, actually.

So, the only thing is about Austin is, well, I think it's already passed now. So Austin, when Austin was in the eighth grade, everybody thought he was going to be a lottery pick, like he was going to be the next great one, you know? Yeah. And it took everybody a while, including Austin, to realize it's okay. I can be a very serviceable NBA player. And that's pretty cool. That's still really good. And he's a really intelligent guy, really insightful guy. When, you know, all these people talking about social justice and activism,

Austin's been doing that since the day he walked into the league. So I think he's got real value as a veteran on any team, to be honest. And, you know, his shooting percentages are atrocious right now. He's having a tough year. But I do think there's value

for him with the right team. I didn't understand the Derrick Rose trade. It's just tips, man. It's tips and Derrick Rose. I know, but it was just... He's been good. He's been pretty good for them.

I get it. I just... I want quickly to get those minutes if I'm a Knicks fan. Yeah, I understand. I don't want those minutes to go to Derrick Rose. What were you going to say

about Denver? Well, what Denver really needs is a rim protector because Jokic can't, you can't ask Jokic to do that and everything else that he's doing. They're getting killed inside. Think about it.

They lost Plumlee. They lost Jeremy Grant. And Millsap's been in and out. They need a big, strong, bruising rim protector. That's what Denver needs. They can get in line with the seven other teams that need that. All right.

Yes, true. We're going to take a break, and then we're going to do a Celtics segment. Of course we are. Of course we are. All right, it's time. As promised, Celtics segment. I think...

Yeah, painful. Painful. I've obviously talked about this a couple times on my pod I think what's interesting as I've looked at this and thought about it and thought about what they're

going to do with the deadline and they're certainly the most interesting team because they have a bunch of young players who are not really assets but at least

are things that could be thrown in a trade they have this giant trade exception they don't really have that one trophy piece to put in unless you want to get excited about Rob Williams. But they also have a behind the scenes infrastructure that has been pretty much the same since the mid 2000s, right? You have the same owners, you have the same GM, you have the same president, you have the same assistant GM have the same president You have the same assistant GM

And really the only change over the last 15 years I would say is that Danny's son Became more involved as a seat at the table guy And he earned that by the way He earned that right 100% So you're talking over a decade With the exact same infrastructure

For the decision making Which in the NBA is rare How many teams have had that? Unheard of. Has Miami even had that? Spurs. Spurs. Well, the Spurs, it's a two-man infrastructure and then a bunch of

role people that kind of move in and out. Miami's had, I guess, but there's even that has had some behind-the-scenes stuff. Well, but they're probably pretty close because think about it. Mickey Harrison lets them do their thing. Pat Riley is, you know, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. And Spose, you know, very close with Pat, grew up in his system

and has the respect of that community of his team. So they're probably the other one that's close to matching that. Yeah. But it's unusual in the league for that's close to matching that. Yeah. But it's unusual in the league for that to be the case for this long. And if the Celtics

don't rally and they end up having, you know, the second half of the year as disappointing as the first half, I really would be surprised if something didn't change

because, and by the way, I'm saying this, I have no inside information just as somebody who watches the team. Like how, I think you saw it with the saying this, I have no inside information, just as somebody who watches the team. I like how, I think you saw it with the Patriots, right? At some point behind the scenes,

you can kind of get a little stale and you need somebody to come in and you need the new voice or you need the new ideas person, whatever. And I guess I'm just curious to see how this plays out, not just what they do the rest of the season. They're at this pivotal point. This trade exception goes away. They're really not going to be able to replace it. They're deep in on salaries. There's going to be no real way to improve this team unless they do it right around now. Right. And if it doesn't go the way I think we think it's going to go, I do wonder if that's maybe Danny graduates and becomes like a senior advisor,

the sunrise, I don't know what's going to happen, but I don't feel like things will be the same a year from now. Well, I would say this, if it goes, if it continues in the direction it's going and you know, it's interesting as bad as they've been and they have been bad and they've been disappointing and they quit in that Atlanta game.

And that was the first time I felt that's the first time I felt that way. And I was worried for Brad. Cause that, that can often be a reflection of coaching. I think people well, we can get to Brad in a minute. But I would say this, if in fact there was a change and Danny, let's say, decide to step down, which he might be close to doing anyway, you know, I mean, he's what is he, 60 something? I can't imagine that his son gets to then succeed him if things continue the way they go, the way they have. Fair or unfair, I don't think it's as simple as Austin stepping in. I would think if your ownership, you'd have to say,

you know what, we need just what you said. We need a new, fresh look at things. We're going to mix this up. And, I mean, does Mike Zarin become the GM? And he's he's a very innovative guy. He's a very interesting guy. Big fan of Mike's. But he's certainly part of, you know, Danny brought him in and the ownership knows him very well. But I can tell you that I know this much, that ownership isn't thrilled. Would you be right now? They're not happy, but I don't think

they're ready to lop everybody's heads off. So then that brings us to Brad Stevens. As you can imagine, he's on the hot seat and he should be. Everyone should be. The players, everybody. When your team is underperformed the way this team has, everybody has to take their piece of the blame game for sure. And I think Brad among them, you know, I agree with that, but I think there's a misnomer about Brad Stevens, uh, that I learned very, very early on, you know, I did a story on his first or second year and he was talking about how, um, remember when the Pacers played the bulls in the, in the playoffs and there was that great play? I think it was Reggie Miller.

And Larry Bird was standing there on the sidelines and he didn't react. Remember, it was like a great, it's really famous. It's a really famous shot, right? It was the three over Jordan. Yeah, right. So remember that? Okay.

So Brad Stevens was however old, not old, right? From Indiana. And he was watching that. And he was like, that's the kind of coach I want to be. I want to be that coach that doesn't react in the high moments or in the low moments. That's going to be me. I'm going to be this calm.

That's who I'm going to be. He has been that way from the start. He's been consistent. That is who he's been. Fans don't like that. They want Luke Walton throwing the clipboard. They want to fire, you know, they want Luke Walton throwing the clipboard. They want Doc Rivers, you know, come on, you know, whatever. And that's not who Brad is for public consumption.

But that doesn't mean there isn't that in him and that it doesn't happen. I've, you know, I've asked players, like Evan Turner was the one that told me. He said, yeah, when I throw the ball into the third row of the seats for like the third time in the game and he pulls me out of the game, he said, you're all waiting for him to like yell at me or to glare at me. And, and he, you know,

I come off and all you see him say is like a little something to me. He goes, what you don't understand is that little something is that was like the worst play I've ever seen. So my point is this idea that he doesn't have the fire or that he isn't holding these guys accountable. That part, I think, is a bit of a false narrative, because I think what happens behind closed doors, what happens under his breath, like for that example, I just told you is different than what the public sees. And I learned that pretty early on. I think he can be very, very tough when he needs to be. Now, for public consumption, that's not going to give the fans what they want.

I think he's a little unpopular right now in Boston, which I find interesting. Now, does he hold some blame? Like I said, of course he does. Of course he does. There's some, you know, but late game adjustments that you wish he'd make. You don't like it when those two, you know, I think there's been, like with Tatum especially, who's so talented. But when things don't go right and he told me this, not last year, the year before, that that one year when

he missed shots or whatever, he'd get frustrated and he didn't really feel like getting back on defense. That can't be the case right now. You know, you're getting paid all the money. You're the guy. You can't be that guy. So that's the other problem is how to manage these two young stars who are really, really good and really talented, but haven't

really won anything yet. And somehow they think they have. And that's a little bit of a problem. You know, that's a little bit of a problem. Yeah. They've developed an unbelievable playoff pedigree, but you're right. They haven't won anything. I think to me, it's two things with Stevens. One is the defensive identity of this team has been in disarray for pretty much the whole season. Like they have trouble getting stops when they need stops. They'll be up 12, then all of a sudden they'll be up 2. Right. And it's a team that just can't play really good five-minute defensive stretches.

And when they do play good defense, like, Gorman and Scal will get excited because they know that, oh my God, look at this, we're playing some defense. So that's one thing. I just don't feel like they have that switch on D like some of the Stevens teams. That's personnel more than him. Yeah, it is. They're all too small. I mean, he, you know, Gordon Haywood, one of there's many reasons they miss Gordon Haywood, but one of the

biggest ones is he was a big wing defender that could guard bigger guys. You people could switch. Yeah. And on switches too. Exactly. And he could, and on offensively, he could handle the ball. Like name another guy on this backcourt player in the Celtics that can generate his own shot or, or handle the ball. Marcus Smart is out. Who else? Right.

Well, that, that was going to be my second. That's not what Pritchard does. I know. That was going to be my second thing. Like this isn't a Stevens team offensively. He likes not the team.

He wants to coach is the 2014 Spurs. That's why I thought it was so interesting. He had that quote about the jazz. He wants multiple offensive players who can play off the ball, who can have the ball, who get rid of the ball. I don't think he wants to coach a team where with seven seconds left, you dump it to somebody and then they try to make a play. And, you know, I think Brown and Tatum, who I love, who are untouchable to me, and I want to watch them get better and better over the next 10 years. The thing they're not good at yet is making other guys better. They just don't know how to do it.

And they don't make each other better either. No. And that's the most frustrating part. And they get along fine. There's no rift between them. Nothing like that. They get along fine. They really do. And people, because I heard

that the other day. I'm like, that's not true. Not true at all. But they don't really make each other better just yet. And that's an issue. And again, I hate to keep harping on Gordon Haywood, but he was the best facilitator they had. He knew how to make everybody better. Well, and the ball moved. The ball moved

with him and he was unselfish. And Marcus can do it sometimes, but then other times he becomes the same kind of ball stopper. That was why, you know, like Marcus Morris to me was the worst possible guy to put those with those two because he's another ball stopper. And you saw there was that night, the game Kemba had the other night when he was awesome. He was getting into the paint and then kick him back out. And then there was an extra pass and all of a sudden that's what Stevens wants.

That's the team he wants to coach. Yeah. And I just don't feel like he has the guys and you have guys like Smith. I don't know if needs Smith's good or not, but I know watching him play basketball runs up the court and he runs to the corner. You have all these guys who just run to the corner and that's all they do

is basketball players. And it's like, I don't, I think he would much have much more fun coaching a team like the Knicks who just run to the corner and that's all they do is basketball players. And it's like, I don't, I think he would much, have much more fun coaching a team like the Knicks that have all these weird pieces and,

you know, guys that can play one-on-one and yeah, that's the kind of team he wants. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. I have such great respect

for Brad Stevens, especially as a person because I think he's just, I think he's a very good coach who's prepared, who is up nights trying to figure this out. And as a person, because I think he's just, I think he's a very good coach who's prepared, who is up nights trying to figure this out. And as a person, like you want to talk about a person of character,

it's always dangerous to say, because I don't know Brad Stevens as well as I think I do. Right. Because I'm not hanging out with Brad on weekends. So you always have to be careful when you say these things. But, you know, I just,

I've been in some, I've been involved in some charity work, and I know what makes them tick. And so, again, everybody takes their piece of the blame. Danny, you know, that roster. There's four guys on that roster that shouldn't even be in the NBA, you know?

Right. So that's a problem. And then the two young guys who I love, and I, you know, you don't even like to criticize them because they're, they're young still. And they, what they've done, like Jalen Brown's been amazing. Just amazing. He's just, it's just been, you know, they said to him, Hey, you got to go to the Hoop more. Now he goes to the Hoop more, you know, you gotta, you gotta look to pass more. Now he's passed more. Hey, you should improve your, he's done everything they've asked

him. I mean, I just think he's fantastic. And Jason Tatum's a generational talent. But again, they can't, you can't get, if you're Jason Tatum as much, I know it's hard, but you can't get frustrated when things don't go right and stop playing hard. You can't do that. And that's what he did in that Atlanta game. And it killed them.

And that's why it was the lowest point of the season. Because up till that point, I think everybody did a really good job of not succumbing to that, you know? Yeah. Also that goofy Atlanta team for that to be the team. It's funny, like even if Joe Ingles was on this team and they had 27

Joe Ingles minutes and just the way he plays and how it's selfish and his ball moving. Like even something like that would help. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, they don't, like the veterans, I kept thinking they need, they need veterans that have been there, you know? And so they went out and got Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague

and I'm like, okay, I didn't mean veterans that have been there and aren't going back there again. You know what I mean? Like those two guys haven't panned out. I mean, Tristan,

Tristan's had some moments, but you know, and so when I, when I see them like blow off JJ Redick, like the mere mention of JJ Redick, I don't really understand that. Now I know defense is a problem and I get the JJ Redick. Isn't this great defensive player,

but like, you don't think JJ Redick could help that team. I'm I disagree. I disagree. I disagree. He's got guts. He's got, you know, a nasty edge to him. He can shoot.

And he moves. And he's moving. They need more guys who can move. So, look at the 2017 team. Isaiah's last good season. So, you had Isaiah and Bradley

in the backcourt. You had Al Horford, who's another piece of this where the ball moved with him, right? He was moving around. He could play 25 feet away. They could probably get him back. You want him back, Bill? You could have him. I'm sure you could with that contract.

And the third year is only partially guaranteed. Olenek was another guy who at least gets rid of the ball. And he couldn't shoot. Couldn't rebound at all. Drove me crazy with his rebounding, but that's another story for another day. I'm about to say something that's going to make you laugh. I mean, I do think they need to make

a trade, but I also think over the next couple weeks, they really need to see what they have with Williams, Robert Williams. They actually need to see what any sort of... I feel like that's coming, though. I feel like that's coming.

I think we've already seen that. His problem is wind. He can't seem to play big minutes. Yeah, so right now, as we're talking, it is 70-67 Celts with 230 left in third quarter. And tonight, Robert Williams, 11 minutes, two points, four rebounds so far. But I just want to see next two weeks because I actually don't think this team needs a five.

I think they could get away with the Thompson-Tice. What they need is Thad Young or one of those type of guys. Or the J.J. Redick or both. Yeah. Yeah. They need a wing and a shooter. That's what I think. They need shooters.

So if they end up with Thad Young and J.J. And you just got rid of the whole rotating cast of whoever, and you just put those two in and now things are moving a little bit better. That may, might be that easy to fix. I don't want to panic yet, but I also think this is with this exception as a pivotal moment, because I don't think the East is that good.

Well, here's the other thing. We'll think about it. So they're in what? 10th place right now. Do you have the standings right there? So they're in 10th or 11th 10th place, but they're like two

games out of fifth place, right? That's the thing. They could be in fourth place in five seconds. Well, that's why none of these teams should be panicking. The same reason why Miami shouldn't have been panicking all the way back when everybody thought their season was over and Denver. People are still panicking about Denver. They're two games to buy

500. They're going games to buy 500. They're going to be, I mean, they're in the eighth. I think if playoffs started, they'd be in the eighth spot. They'd actually play Utah in the first round, which would be really something. But they're not done yet. They're going to move up. You know, Porter will find his way again.

Jamal Murray's on the way up again. They're going to be all right. You know, they've had a lot of injuries, just like everybody. So everybody always wants to panic. Toronto, everyone's like, their their their dynasty's done you know their bigs are gone these other guys it's over missy alchems rich just stealing everybody's figured siakam out he's he's no good well i mean again we have to remember the truncated season they had last year the weirdness of that year the mental toll it took on the players, the mental tenacity it required just to get through that and then to have to come back and do it again. All of those things to me factor in. And so we still have a long way to go for Boston, for Denver, for everybody, for Utah for that matter. If you're Utah, are you thinking,

oh God, I hope we're not peaking too soon. People really believe that sometimes. The only team I would say in either conference who should be kind of panicking, for lack of a better word, is just Denver. Just because Jokic is one of the best five players in the league. And the team, the roster they have isn't the right roster yet. And so panic's the wrong word, but it's like, this is fixable and that's a team

that is playoff proven, at least with their top two. And can they spend the next four weeks trying to figure out what else they need? Because I don't know if the Lakers

are going to be healthy by the time we get to round three. We don't know. Who knows with Utah? And Denver. We don't know with Who knows with Utah? And Denver. We don't know with the Clippers. I don't. Here's the other thing, though, about Denver.

So anyway, people make this mistake is the team that beat Utah in the bubble is not the team that they have now. I mean, their biggest problem was Tim Connolly drafted too well and they couldn't afford to keep Malik Beasley and Torrey Craig and some of these other really good players. They couldn't pay them all. You know, they knew they were going to pay Jokic. They knew they were going to pay Murray. And I think, you know, the idea is that the third guy is going to be Porter, Michael Porter Jr. Although I'm sure teams will ask about Michael Porter Jr. I bet teams will ask about him. You could get something. I think they've been asking. Yeah. Yeah. So do you want to do that if you're Denver? No, could get something. I think they've been asking. Yeah. Yeah.

So do you want to do that if you're Denver? No. I don't. I think he's young and he makes mistakes. And he's, you know, that game the other night against the Wizards, you know, you got a three on one and Murray picks up his dribble too soon. And, you know, and Porter doesn't cut to the basket. But like that kid, think about him. He played high school basketball,

and then he went to Missouri and had an injury and pretty much didn't play, and then didn't play his entire first year in the NBA. And then his second year was this past one that just went by, and all of a sudden he got hot in the bubble. And we expect him to be a number three guy on an NBA contending team. That's absurd. He hasn't played enough.

Why do we all think that that's what he should be doing right now? That's crazy. I think. The fear with the Celtics is whatever the move is, it's still not going to matter because Brooklyn from a talent standpoint is the most talented team that's been in that conference in four years. Yeah, I agree. So, put Vucevic on there.

Does it matter? That would be my question. That would be pretty nice. Vucevic isn't bad. I don't think they trade him. So, that's the home run. But that's the home run move where it's like, you bring in Vucevic, Kemba gets going.

Now, we have a lot of offense, at least. Okay, here's something. Right now, they don't have, I don't think, enough manpower. But I guess we'll find out. Yeah, I don't think so either. And, you know, don't discount the Sixers. I mean, I understand why everybody's in love with Brooklyn. I get it.

They're so fun to watch. But I still come back to the idea that you can't just turn on the switch and defend when it matters. You have to, it has to be a mindset and has to have been built over the course of a year. They're getting better, but there's still, I don't know,

like their net rating is, I don't know. I just look at the Sixers and you know, I don't know if there's any truth to this Kyle Lowry stuff, but imagine Kyle Lowry on the Sixers. It would take some picks. They have the salaries. They could make it work with Green and Maxie and Mike Scott.

Or like Matisse-Thibault or someone like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing with Toronto. We've always seen Masai's been proactive with this stuff. Really has been. And if he's looking at this, he's like, we won the title. What am I doing?

Yeah. Well, and maybe he talks to Kyle Lowry and says, look, we're not going be able to pay you when you're free. You're going to be 35 years old. You're going to be a free agent. We probably can't pay you what you want to make. So if, if you know, if that's the case, like if you want to go to Philly, tell me and, and I'll send you there, you know, and I'll get Matisse Thibel and, you know, cause like, it's funny, Matisse Thibel, I thought was really going to take off. And, off. And for whatever reason, he hasn't really floated Doc's boat, right? He hasn't played a lot under the Doc Rivers regime. I'm buying all the stock.

I have all the Malik Monk stock. I have all the stock that anyone ever had. I've had that, been accumulating it for four years. It's finally starting to go up. I have all the Thibel stock. It's in my stock account. I don't get Tybalt stock. I'm it's, it's in my, in my stock. I don't get it. So why do you think he's not playing?

Because they can't play him and Ben Simmons at the same time is the real problem. You have two guys who are no offensive threat at all. Yeah. And together they don't make sense, but he will have a moment on somebody's team where he's going to be this absolute kick ass. What the hell is this Swiss Army knife guy?

I just don't think it's on a team with Ben Simmons on it. So maybe it's Toronto, though. Wouldn't that make some sense? I think it would. I wish it was the Celtics. They had the pick and they traded him. Yeah, Toronto. He's the guy who goes to Toronto and it's like,

oh my God, Masai did it again. Yeah, he did. It's another OG on Inobi, right? That's what it is. Yeah, oh my God. How did he do it? It's like, look, this is going to happen for Thibault wherever he goes. All right, Jackie Mack, pleasure as always.

Let me know when you go to a Celtic game. I know you haven't gone yet. I haven't. I haven't. I've been kind of feeling sorry for myself. Like, what's the point? I can't go on the court beforehand and get all my info and talk to everybody. I have to sit in like a little box with plexiglass,

but I should still go. I should still do it. And you have a story coming this week? Nah, next week. Next week? Next week. Okay. All right.

Yeah. Yeah. As always, I'm sure it'll be good. We'll see. Check you back. Thank you. That was fun. Thanks.

All right. My daughter Zoe Simmons is here. It is time for another edition of Teen Patrol. Last time you were on over the holidays, a lot of people learned a lot of things about what the hell is going on in your world. You're 15 years old. You're online all the time,

and you've been trapped in a quarantine for the last year. You said something interesting today, though. What did I say? You said that your generation has nostalgia for the beginning of the quarantine. Oh, my God. This is a huge thing that's going on, which is imagine how sad that is having nostalgia from our first lockdown.

So basically on TikTok, all everyone's talking about, they're using the sound that was popular last March, which was like the first couple of weeks of quarantine. And they're using it and posting all the things that we were doing back in quarantine number one and how it's nostalgic like the foamy coffee like whipped coffee and the rain smell they're like it has a specific smell quarantine number one and making cookies and tiger king and all the stuff so this is this ironic or like people are actually nostalgic for it? It's just sad. Everyone's nostalgic.

I'm a little nostalgic because looking back, I'm like, wow, times were so much simpler back then. I was doing Zooms that were optional. I had no homework. It was basically a staycation. I was baking all the time. Honestly, it was fun looking back at it.

And that's so sad. I'm like, I have fun thinking back about a time that was horrible when I didn't have real life. It was the same situation you're in now. I like thinking back to having family dinners and not being able to go anywhere and just like being stuck and having hopeless thoughts all the time is like a happy thing for me. Wow. So that's, that's a mental health check-in for all teenagers around the world. Amazing. Yeah. You're almost, you're almost at the 12-month mark.

Why are you on your phone? What are you looking at? I was looking at my thing, my notes. Okay, all right. I was going to get mad at you. People are going to hear us in real time, me getting mad at you. Let's go over some of the big stuff that's happened over these first two months. First of all, there's been some cancellations.

Oh, truly. With your crew. James Charles, explain what happened to thisations, as always, with your crew. James Charles, explain what happened to this. Also, explain who James Charles is. Okay, so if you guys don't know, James Charles is a veteran on YouTube. He's an MUA, and he's kind of one of the bigger YouTubers. He just does makeup looks and things like that. But he's becoming a lot bigger on the internet recently for not the greatest reasons. So first of all,

James made a few controversial videos for the past few couple weeks. Controversial about what? Just in general. Let me explain. Okay, I'm sorry. So basically, the first video wasn't too bad. He did this fake bald trend where he made people think he was bald for a day. He like purposely got himself caught by paparazzi with a bald cap on and made all these Instagram stories and posted them days later to keep this joke running that he was bald. That wasn't bad. But for his content, he just makes

makeup videos like I don't want to watch you running around L.A. being bald. So that was kind of the start of his downfall. Then the next video he made was a fake pregnancy video. So obviously this didn't go over well with the females, which are basically 95% of his viewers. But his friend, Laura Lee, who was actually pregnant, helped him be pregnant throughout the day. They did like a cramp simulator, which basically was supposed to simulate the feeling of cramps.

And when he had the period cramps setting on, he was saying, oh, this isn't so bad, like blah, blah, blah. And then at the labor setting, he was kind of just making it seem like it was a breeze. And obviously people didn't take that very well because pregnancy comes with a lot of terrible side effects. And it's so difficult to carry a child

and a simulator is not going to accord to how difficult that is. So people got very upset with James about the pregnancy thing. But that's not even the biggest thing that happened. I got to say, those two things sound pretty innocent. Yeah, but still, you know, people run with things these days. So basically, they're saying he was bald shaming and he was pregnancy shaming. That's what we have so far?

Basically, but here's the real tea that we're about to spill so james this guy surfaced a 16 year old on tiktok and he was like james charles started sending me inappropriate pictures over snapchat and asking to facetime and hang out with me after i had told him i was 16 years old sending him booty pictures and asking for inappropriate pictures from this boy and saying that it can be their secret, blah, blah, blah. And obviously, there's always two sides to things, but child grooming is not something to be joked around with. And especially when you're in such a big position and so inspirational for kids, it's just a really horrible thing. So James obviously came back and defended himself and was like,

this guy is totally telling the story wrong. Like child grooming is totally not okay. I would never do this. There's always two sides to the story, blah, blah, blah. But James has had some weird activity in the past with minors being, you know, what? Being what? Just being strange about people.

Other people have come out about this but it's been overlooked and just thought that it wasn't anything so we went from kind of dumb innocent not that funny videos to child grooming it's a typical trend throughout these people huh like shane dawson totally same thing but so what's gonna happen to james was it true we don't know if it's true we don't know he's trying to defend himself on the internet right now and we know that cancel culture is a huge part of 2020 2021 yeah so you know everyone's looking for a reason to cancel someone but child grooming is not something that's a pretty easy reason yeah especially if he's a 16 year old boy and james is like 20 now you can't continuously make the same mistake

with multiple people. So James, you need to stay away from the kids. That's my suggestion for you. Listen, just the fact that you're suggesting that means James might need to reevaluate some stuff. I think he does. More cancellations. Claire Drake. Your favorite show. What's it called? The Four Freak Show. If you don't know what the four freak show is it's a twitch streaming show that's kind of ended now but it was had four people on it four kids kind of around my age 15 to 17 range and they just put on these characters and were making fun of each

other the entire time but super entertaining this one year year-end awards for favorite show yeah it was no it was huge now it's completely dead. But besides that, Claire Drake is one of the biggest influencers in this kind of pack. Yeah. And she's going through a little bit of a cancellation right now. Not child grooming. Not child grooming.

Okay, good. You're good, Claire, on the child grooming end of things. But basically, she, a video resurfaced of her making a joke about the Holocaust. Oh. What is going on okay um and because this video is resurfacing i think it was from about a year ago obviously people aren't really happy oh my god jokes aren't things to be joked around with like

obviously the holocaust is a really sensitive topic for millions of people obviously and not something to be joked around with so the internet didn't take that one well to say the least but her friends are trying to defend her like hayley in the group it was another one of the influencers who's also a big one she was trying to defend her and in her apology video for claire or just her clear up about their relationship she was kind of laughing and I don't know. They didn't seem like they took the weight of the topic seriously. But I do think that Hailey's a really genuine person. She has ADHD, I believe.

So it's kind of things like that that are tough to talk about definitely can mess with your ADHD. I know I have a couple of friends who deal with that. And she said she hadn't slept for like 30 hours. Aren't these kids still under 18? Yeah, like 17. So you get no benefit of the doubt even when you're... No, it's like, that's the thing.

Because when it's someone like James who is 20, I'm not saying that under 18 and 20 is a huge difference, but he's lived a lot more life than someone like Claire has. And she's new to the internet. She rose super fast to fame, which happens to a lot of these influencers. And something bad happened. She should have never made the video that she made, but I'm 15 and I can't imagine if I was in a spot like that, what would happen to me? You just kind of crumble sometimes. I'm not saying I would make a Holocaust joke, but it's difficult to navigate yourself when you have so many viewers and people looking at you constantly.

Well, especially if you're on all the time. Yeah. You get comfortable in front of all your fans and then you say one. But not everyone can deal with your level of comfort. I'm not saying jokes like that are, you know. I'm 51. What about it?

I know. I'm saying I've been at this forever and you're 15 yeah if you were just imagine if you were doing stuff underdeveloped yeah right so it's just you know it's a tough situation and i feel bad honestly for all the hate that she's receiving but that's not something to be joked around with so i hope she's learning her lesson why isn't your generation allowed to make mistakes? I don't understand that part. Because this is the generation I'm living in. It's so woke that it's almost too woke. Because people make mistakes. That's how we learn. That's something that we've learned since we were little. You make mistakes, you learn from them, you grow.

Unless it's your brother. Yeah, unless it's Ben. He continuously makes mistakes and then it doesn't get any better. Right. But it's just, you know, we got to learn that making mistakes also means you make space to grow. And I think that that's something we don't quite understand in these times. We just want to get mad at each other. This is why Zoe is the wisest person in our house. Wow.

Can you tell me about TikTok Bachelor? What the hell is this? Oh, my God. This was so funny. So basically, as we know, I got out of a relationship a little while ago. I was in a relationship, but there was this thing going around the internet

where this girl was like, you can fill out this Google Doc form that's in my bio on TikTok. And you can say your state and your interests, like three interests that you have. And then your height and kind of like a little explanation of what you look like and then your favorite characteristics about yourself and you submit

this google doc and then this girl puts together people she's like just random people and i'm not saying i'm proud of this but in in a dark moment i did fill out the form i filled it out but don't don't hold me to this. It was a dark moment. Just got out of a relationship. I was like, okay, maybe this girl can find someone fun for me. Nothing ever happened from it. You found like you were always finding people.

Yeah, but not, you know, I just wanted to try something fun. She never made a video of mine. I think I submitted it a couple of times actually. It's just she's setting up people. I think real relationships are coming out of it. Cause it's like, she'll pair together the people who live in LA who have a good height difference and have similar characteristics. And she's like, and she gets your Snapchats and then just makes a group chat with the two of you. Do you know that when I had my old website before I got to ESPN, I did this football picks pool and two of the people in the pool, I picked 10 readers. Two of the readers who were in the pool, they ended up, they formed a group and they got married.

Oh my God, matchmaker. Yeah. Wow. That was my biggest matchmaker contribution. Well, this is a lot more embarrassing. You know who's terrible at making matches? Your mom. Why do you say that?

Because she always, for years, would try to pride herself in setting up people, but just was never good at it. Guys, never. Don't ever set up people. Don't set up people. Never a good idea. You're not going to. It's not going to end up well.

And it's going to get super awkward. Don't do it. Let things happen organically. You know who set up somebody once? My mom. Jammy did? One of my best friends, Jim Grady, with his future wife. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Seriously? All jammy. Are you kidding me? Yeah, that happened. Wow. Can you tell me about the dating websites, Omega and Yubo? Omegle, first of all. Omegle isn't a dating website. We've talked about this before. I think I'm embarrassed that you don't know already with the amount that I talk about it. Yeah, you're right. It's like an online FaceTiming app where you just put in a filter and then get random people who choose the same filter as you.

That's not really a dating app, but I have met friends on that app. Okay. What's Yubo? Yubo, which was really popular last year and it's kind of arising this year. I got reminded of this because my friend was like, I met a guy on Yubo. He was super weird and probably a serial killer, but I had fun talking to him for a day. So basically, Yubo's kid Tinder. Kid Tinder?

Basically, yeah. Can you elaborate? I haven't used it ever because I'm like the most horrified person with that type of stuff. Thank God. But yeah, thank God. But I think you just make yourself an account

and then it's like Tinder. So it could be like a ninth grader meets another ninth grader. Yeah, exactly. Like, hey, let's go meet in a park and hang out. Okay, maybe not meet in a park. That's not in the times right now. Yeah, come Netflix and chill with me.

That'd be more like it. How do you know it's not like a 44-year-old person on the other side? The internet is a little sketch. I think people are just using it for fun. But my friends did meet people on there for like a hot sec. I don't know. It's just something fun to spice up life. This sounds worrisome.

How do we keep Ben off Yubo? Oh, he's probably all over. Yubo? Okay, you were calling this sad, but the fact that we're nostalgic about quarantine, that kind of tells what's going on in life right now. Meet something fun to do. Your generation's losing its mind

about not being able to interact. I don't blame you, by the way. Yeah, right? To spend a whole year where you don't get to interact. Guys, it's literally March. It's March. Yeah.

It's almost a year that we've been in quarantine. How crazy is that? I don't think I have one memory from last year. Trying to think. Right? Like, you just have,

you have to think about it. We got the puppy. That was, that was a good memory. The puppy's great. Thank God that we got the puppy. Yeah, thank God for him. For our,

for our health. But it's just crazy. Other than Tom Brady winning the Super Bowl. Can you tell me about sugar daddies and sugar babies? I never want to hear you say those words again.

Okay. Basically, it's kind of become a thing on the internet. I don't know if this has been going on for a while now, but basically it's kind of become a thing on the internet i don't know if this has been going on for a while now but the internet's kind of hopping right now so okay basic basically these people go on these websites i think it's called seeking and it's kind of young girls like i guess you can be my age but but that would be super creepy. Usually 18 and over, but between the ages

like 18 and 30. Yeah. And they go on this app and they find these sugar daddies who are willing to pay money for pictures of their feet. Okay. So, girls are selling pictures to old men of their feet and then get money for it. So, people have foot fetishes?

Yeah. It's a huge thing. So, they feel like they're not totally doing anything that bad because it's just their feet. No, it's just they're sending their feet and then getting money for it. So people have foot fetishes? Yeah. It's a huge thing. So they feel like they're not totally doing anything that bad because it's just their feet. No, it's just they're sending their feet and then getting paid 200 bucks. 200 bucks? No, I know. It like depends. They like tell you the angles that they want your feet at. And you just get a lot of money for it.

So if you're struggling. So they're called sugar babies now? The people who send the pics are sugar babies. The sugar daddies are like the people who ask for them and pay. But you have to be at least 18. Quote unquote, at least 18. If you need some money, go consider it.

I'm not doing it. But if you're desperate, I mean, it's kind of easy. Just paint your nails and put it in a good position. I like how you used to throw in the I'm not doing it.

Thanks. Like I was concerned you were going to send pictures of your feet. I'm just telling you. Your feet have blisters all over them all the time. There's some blister fetish. Maybe they would like that.

Your favorite podcast of 2021 is Trisha Pates? Oh, God. Trisha Pates. Basically, she has a podcast called Frenemies with her fiance's brother-in-law. Okay.

And his name's Ethan. And Trisha Paytas, as we know, is completely ridiculous. That's her entire spiel. You cover her in December. You were saying she pushes the envelope. Yeah. She intentionally tries to get canceled. But now it's like she's uncanceled. Yeah, and she just involves herself in all the drama. But basically, on this podcast, every episode's different, but they talk about real life huge issues. And Trisha plays this idiotic character that she's completely oblivious to everything that's going on. So she just says a bunch of dumb shit and Ethan corrects her and it's really funny.

So what do you like about it? But it's also super offensive. I just, I think it's so funny that But it's also super offensive. I just, I think it's so funny that someone can be so horrid and wretched. It's kind of like, it's kind of like Borat. Like she's Borat except a white and female.

So you watch it because you can't believe the stuff she's saying. It's like watching a car crash. I mean, all my friends, yeah, exactly. But all my friends watch it and she shows up to each episode and like these insane outfits. She cosplays weird people. She wears like red wigs and makes her face all weird looking and just says a bunch of dumb things about the election and how she doesn't think gravity is real and politics

and that global warming isn't a thing. Wow. Just the whole nine yards. So the ringer probably shouldn't try to get Trisha's podcast. She definitely shouldn't get Trisha's podcast on there. global warming isn't a thing. Wow. Just the whole nine yards. So, the ringer probably shouldn't try to get Trisha's podcast. Definitely shouldn't get Trisha's podcast on there. All right,

I'll mark that down. But, I really enjoy it. This is in my notes. Jojo Siwa comes out as bi. What's the deal with this? Jojo Siwa.

Okay. You should light up when you hear that name. Tell everybody who Jojo is. So, Jojo was on Dance Moms a million years ago. Remember with abby lee miller and maddie ziegler blah blah so she was a dancer on that show but since she's made an entire title for herself in the world like she's branded all over target and places she's making millions of dollars like probably the wealthiest

teenager out there because all these kids she's known for her bows but she sells like lunch boxes all this stuff she completely branded herself but she's a huge media influencer she's the one that made a comeback where people used to think she was annoying and now everyone's on her side and has like all these tiktok followers and it's just known as like the happy girl but she came out as bot and has a long-term girlfriend and i thought that was super exciting considering the times right now and you know how she's showing young kids that it's okay to to feel certain ways about people and that it's okay to not be completely ordinary but your generation is the first generation that that was like completely open

with this type of stuff yeah and it's it's completely normalized now as it always had should have been but i just think it's completely normalized now as it always should have been. But I just think it's super cool that someone like her, who's such an influential person in my world, is being so open and allowing people to know that it's okay to be yourself authentically in front of a crowd.

Wow. A positive story here. I know. Look at that. First one. Y2K nostalgia, you think, is coming back. I had to explain to you what Y2K is. Oh, it's definitely coming back.

Yeah. So the Britney Spears doc, which you watched. Ridiculous. The Britney, is Britney making a tiny comeback or no? I mean, she's always been loved and her music's iconic. I think she's iconic in general. Free Britney, by the way. Then 10 Things I Hate About You.

10 Things I Hate About You is huge. It's just the style nowadays is completely 2000s. Whenever I wear clothes, my mom was like, oh my God, I wore that way back when. Like I got an entire Juicy Couture suit, which everyone's wearing right now, which was like the J-Lo thing back in the 2000s. And the scrunchies, just the whole deal.

I mean, that wasn't really 2000s. The late 90s too, right? Late 90s, yep. Like flare jeans, just the whole deal. Everything's coming back. And I know you were telling me earlier that you were worried that type of clothing and culture was like going to end when it came into the 2000s, but it's making a comeback 20 years later. So great to hear. Kind of ridiculous, but also so fun. I love it. Also making a comeback to all the Boys 3 To All the Boys Forever Which you me and mom

Watched I fell asleep Probably for 45 minutes He was snoring so loudly I could hardly hear Peter Kavinsky Peter Kavinsky Convincing Laura that he loves her But basically if you don't know what To All the Boys were It was basically a movie that came out

In 2017-ish about a girl who wrote all these love letters to her past crushes and her sister mailed them out at the end to all of her crushes

and she was dealing with that entire situation and ended up dating one of the crushes. Yeah, but that movie was a phenomenon. It was.

That was like one of the big Netflix movies ever. Number one was huge. Yeah. And in number one, Peter Kavinsky, also known as Noah Centineo, was such a heartthrob throughout my entire age group generation. Yeah.

Everyone loved him. And then number two came out last year and things took a turn for the worst. People turned on Noah. For Noah Centineo. Yeah. People thought he was cringy and that he was an ick. Do you know what an ick is? No.

It's basically like a yucky, like, I don't know how to describe it to you. You don't want to be called an ick. You don't want to be called an ick. It's like if someone falls and cries, that's like an ick for people. Okay. It's like a turnoff. So Noah Centineo, done. People think he's super cringe.

And then this third one came out and people thought he was more cringe. I'm seeing edits on TikTok of him doing this like bowling ball scene where he was dancing and people are putting clown music behind it because it's scary apparently.

You know, it's not his fault though because they shouldn't have made two sequels of this movie. Yeah, it should have been ended at the first one. Yeah. But I mean... Well, why don't you tell everybody

your personal history? I'll tell you guys the story. So basically I was kind of, I was following the crowd with the hating Noah Centineo thing. I wasn't fully involved in it, but I accepted the fact that people didn't like him. And then your mom ran into him in a store. And he,

and he offered to FaceTime me and he was super kind to my mom. Cause she, she walked up to him. She was like, are you Noah Centineo? She never does that by the way. And he was like, yeah, that like, that's my name I'm Noah blah blah blah he ends up sending me this super sweet video with my mom and just them hanging out in this store

and being super kind and my feelings completely turned for Noah Centineo couldn't have been nicer couldn't have been a nicer guy I feel bad and I completely support you, Noah Centineo. I'm here for you and I want to turn people back around. We like Noah. We like Noah. He's a nice dude from what I've heard. The Billie Eilish doc came out on Apple on Friday. This changed my life. Just

so everyone's aware. I haven't stopped thinking about it since we watched it. Oh my God. Go through it. What did you love about it? I think Billie Eil my God. Okay. Go through it. What'd you love about it? I just, I think Billie Eilish is so cool. And she's also,

she's such an idol for people my age, especially teenagers. Cause you know, when teenagers go through that funk and it's just kind of a difficult finding yourself period of depression and sadness and blah, blah, blah. And Billie's music really speaks to that. I don't personally deal with, with a lot of sad feelings.

I'm very fortunate for that. I was going to say, you're one of those positive people I know. No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. I'm very fortunate for the way that I feel. But she speaks to a lot of people my age because so many, it's so much more common, especially because of our circumstances right now, being stuck at home, to feel really sad.

And having music that describes the way that you're feeling is to feel really sad. And having music that describes the way that you're feeling is the absolute best thing. And Billie does that for a lot of people. So one, I thought that was super amazing. I've always thought that. Two, it showed a lot how she interacts with her fans and how loving she is and accepting and just excited to have people who support her. And she said she doesn't even call them her fans. They're her family or her friends or whatever. But just the way that she views people, even though she has such a status in our world and she's such she's like she's a millionaire and she's so humble about it and so kind to her fans or family or whatever. I don't know. I just feel like she's she's such an inspiration for me personally. You feel like she's appreciative of all the love. Yeah, she's appreciative of what she has.

And also, she wrote her entire, her hugest album in her bedroom with her brother, which is just like insane. And they showed the writing process of all of her songs, which are such like deep songs. The words that are in there are absolutely ridiculous. But she wrote it in her bedroom with her brother. And I don't know,

I just felt like that connected with me on a personal level because of my relationship with Ben. And they showed her bedroom with her brother. And I don't know. I just felt like that connected with me on a personal level because of my relationship with Ben. And they showed her relationship with her brother, Phineas. So I don't know. That just spoke to me. Ben won't be writing all your music for you. Ben will maybe be writing some melatonin raps. But it's still, I just, I think she's so cool. I watched it as a parent,

from the parent, like kind of judging the parents as I watched it. What did you think that, oh, that one thing where they put her in the entire press conference? That one thing when she had like a broken body basically? Yeah, and just made her keep going. They had her in a concert tour and she couldn't even move? And they were like, no, Billie, you need to keep cashing those checks. You're going out there tonight. And she couldn't walk? I thought that was terrible.

I overlooked that. You're right. I tonight. She couldn't walk. I thought that was terrible. I overlooked that. You're right. I was more thinking of Billy. That was awful. No one should ever do that to their kid. Ever. She could not walk. And then she sprained her ankle and they made her go back out there.

Yeah, it was bad. I felt there were a couple moments that made me cringe. And also, I thought the doc glossed over, you know, her parents basically groomed her and her brother to be pop stars. To be musicians. From the moment they were like three, four, five years old, that was all they did. They were like, almost like Tiger Woods, but for music. Oh, so you think. They kind of glossed over that part.

I didn't look at it that way. She's super talented, but I also don't know how much of a choice she had in whatever and being what she is yeah like what if she said at age 16 like i want to take the year off i don't want to do this they wouldn't have letter probably they would probably win a letter so that wow that's interesting i didn't look at it like that at all like if you said i'm not going to play soccer anymore oh you'd oh no i would kill you no you'd kill me you'd kill me i'd be half dead and moved in with jammy no i i thought they pushed her uh a little too hard yeah that bummed me out it bummed me out too looking back because she's she also she talks about a lot how she deals with these really dark feelings and i can't imagine that that doesn't she said she was had a cutting

issue yeah all that stuff i can't imagine that that doesn't... She said she had a cutting issue one time. All that stuff. I can't imagine that that doesn't play a huge role in the way that she feels. The way that her parents kind of treat her. Yeah. I thought it was really interesting. It was, I thought, too long. I enjoyed every minute

and would have watched an hour longer. I know. We were arguing about it. You would have gone four hours. It just depends on the person because I'm so interested in Billie Eilish. I could watch anything about her forever, but that's not totally your style. What are the next five years for her look like? I just think she's going to keep excelling. There's no going downhill for her. She has such a great title and she's done so much, so good for so long. Would you say she has the highest approval rating

of anyone in your generation for musicians? Yeah, 100%. Has there been a backlash with her yet? Harry Styles is really loved too. The two of them are like the powerhouses, female and male. Has the Billie Eilish backlash happened yet? I feel like there was something, but it wasn't big enough for me to know about it.

So clearly it got squashed. But everyone's, you know, as we said before, everyone tries to find something on someone and ruin their lives. But I just, I think that Billie is, she's too huge. But now you have a new favorite singer, Claudia Conway. Oh my God, stop it. Can we talk about that for a sec? Yeah, I'm obsessed with her. Her voice puts me to sleep at night. I actually dared you to try out for American Idol next year. And you said you would. I didn't even hesitate with my answer. Who would you want as your parent that came with you?

Me or mom? Probably mom. I don't know. Mom scares me sometimes. I feel like she'd punch Katie in the face if I didn't get sent to Hollywood what song did oh we won't give it away we won't give it away

I think you should do it next year just for fun maybe I will but back to Claudia yeah how embarrassing and especially the scene where she was just talking about

who her parents are and how that's like a huge part of her life which it is but like we already know. You don't have to tell us. And then how she proceeds to go on TikTok apologizing for her performance and saying that she was like blah, blah, blah,

just making excuses for it. Just embarrassing. Well, it was more embarrassing that they put her through. Yeah. I mean, it's clear that they made her like... Yeah, and I'm sure she doesn't... And I don't know,

just her entire thing. She's not someone I would look to be friends with from what I've seen. Before we go, any recommendations pop culture-wise for people out there? I just watched Lovely Bones. I know that's not like a new movie. No TV shows? But I saw it on TikTok. Kind of putting me on the spot here.

Okay. That's it. I don't think so. How about a Simmons family wrap up through the first two months of 2021? How are we doing a year into the quarantine? Nobody's moved out. Ben's gotten progressively meaner.

Yeah. I feel like me and your relationship has been thriving. Great. Feeling good about that. Mom, she's doing all right. She's handling. She's mad all the time at Murph

and half asleep 24-7 running around yelling at us. But, you know, she's a working lady. I don't blame her. They just need social interaction. Well, they're right at the end of the tunnel. It looks like. Right. Mom is a true hero.

Mom's the hero of 2021. I'm sure all of your moms are the hero of 2021. You might start playing legal soccer games instead of illegal soccer games. Yeah, that should be fun. Yeah. Little less spiced up, but you might have school at some point in your life. I've been going to school. No, but I mean, like real school where it feels like school.

I can't even imagine that anymore. And you got your driver's license. Yeah, guys, I passed my permit test. Stop clowning me now. So you failed the first time. I already talked about that. I know, but what if my friends listen to this? Then the second time.

Dad, what if my friends listen to this? The second time you almost failed because. No, I didn't. Well, you found out you were studying the truck and bus. Oh, I studied. Okay, so can I vouch for myself for the first time? Yeah. I was told it was really,

really easy. So I didn't study and I just did it. And obviously that didn't, that didn't go well for me. Didn't work. So I really honed it in the second time, except for the fact that I studied the commercial vehicle pamphlet for the entire night.

Totally different rules about stopping and all this. So then I, then I studied the entire night. Which has totally different rules about stopping and all this stuff. So then I studied the actual thing afterward. And I only got four questions wrong. That's pretty good, huh? Congratulations. Really proud of you. Eight's the limit. Watch out for me on the roads, ladies and gents.

All right. That's it for Teen Patrol. Thanks. We'll see you in a couple months, Zoe Simmons. Bye. All right. That's it for Teen Patrol. Thanks. We'll see you in a couple months, Zoe Simmons. Bye. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jackie Mack.

Thanks to my daughter. Don't forget about the rewatchables coming Monday night. Me, Chuck Klosterman, Chris Ryan, and a mystery movie from 1991. We'll be back on this feed on Tuesday. We might have a celebrity guest. Actually, we're definitely going to have a celebrity guest. Stay tuned. See you Tuesday. Feel the air Sweat down On the wayside

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