The Bill Simmons Podcast - An MSG Miracle, the Wemby Arrival Game, Tottenham’s Nadir, and 'Euphoria' Season 3 | With Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Joe House react to the Knicks beating the Cavs in OT in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals before reacting to Wemby’s once-in-a-lifetime Game 1 against OKC (3:13). Then, Chris Ryan and Anthony Dabbundo join to talk about Tottenham Hotspur fighting relegation, the Champions League final, and the World Cup (1:15:30). Finally, Zoe Simmons comes on to catch up on all things pop culture, turning 21, and much more (01:49:07). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! https://michelobultra.com/courtside MICHELOB ULTRA® COURTSIDE ’25 to ’26. No Purchase Necessary. Open to US residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026 Multiple entry periods. See Official Rules at https://michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the Bill Simmons podcast brought to by Fandall. We're also brought to by the Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new rewatchable on Monday night. We did Borat. It was me and Kyle Brandt. I had a great time. We've been doing comedies all month.

And it turns out it's kind of politically incorrect comedy month because we did, there's something about Mary. We did Tropic Thunder. We did Borat. And now this Monday, the next one's going to be Animal House, which is also on Netflix.

They have a bunch of great comedies. Somehow we've never done Animal House, probably the most influential modern comedy of the last 50 years. That is coming. I'm really excited to do it. This movie's been in my life basically since I was nine years old, 10 years old whenever I wasn't allowed to watch it. And I did anyway.

So Animal House is next. Go check that one out. For this podcast, Joe House and I are going to react to game one, Nicks, Cavs, as well as rehash. We've had a day to sit with one of the great basketball guys. games of this century, OKC, San Antonio Game 1. I have some big picture stuff about it. And then we're going to talk about where that series might be going.

So that's up first. Anthony Dubundo and Chris Ryan came on to talk about Tottenham, potentially being relegated out of the Premier League if they lose on Sunday, basically. Soccer. I'm going to start doing more of it on this podcast. I had a great time talking to them about that and the World Cup and a whole bunch of things. And then last but not least, my favorite guest. I'm not allowed to pick favorites, but she is my favorite.

My daughter, Zoe Simmons, came on because she just turned 21, and we want to talk about a bunch of TV culture and all kinds of things. And we were joined by a very, very special guest who had never been on the podcast before, who has four legs. So if you're watching this as a video podcast, I think you'll enjoy the third person on that segment. Anyway, it's all next. We're going to take a break. Pearl Jam.

And then Joe House and I coming off game one. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to by Fandul. The conference finals finally is here. We are down to four teams. I think you know it'll go down. Take your shot with Fanduel. Get closer to the action. And as you know, I've been telling you for years.

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slash chat in Connecticut. All right, recording this part of the podcast a little after 8 o'clock Tuesday night. House, this is the best 24-hour running basketball we've had in a while. We had the incredible Spurs Thunder game last night. And then a Knicks game that looked terrible and yet notice even when the Knicks were down 22 with like seven and a half minutes left, I never sent you the text, let's start early at three minutes,

which just get going, because this is what the Knicks do. And by the way, this is kind of what the Cavs do too, but an incredible comeback, Jalen Brunson on an all-time heater down the stretch. James Harden, I think, started decomposing at one point. And the Knicks did that,

it didn't make up for the Halliburton game last year, but it at least made some inroads. Yeah, I mean, The storyline here, are you not entertained? I mean, my God, the first two games of these finals, unbelievable. I have to give you a hard time, how in the face of what Wembe did last night, was there no Bill Simmons content immediately thereafter? I never thought to have a live podcast last night.

It was a game one. It didn't have to be live. Something. I'm going to do it after. We're going to do it after. I know. But the Nix, no, I'm going to whimsical was last night. I was covered.

I mean, I had to smoke four cigarettes. It was like I couldn't, I hadn't changed the sheets. There was so much. It was outrageous. We had some good Ringer podcast today. I'm going to levitate in with some big picture stuff. Let's talk to next first. Better win for the Nicks or worst loss for the Cavs?

Always a fun game. I feel like this was actually a worst loss for the Cavs. Because now they basically, I always say this. Now they have to win five times at a seven game series. they shot their wad in all these different ways. I thought I didn't agree with really anything the Knicks did for three quarters. They finally decided to just do five shooters

down the stretch with Shamet. And Kenny Atkinson, I think, had an ice cream headache or a brain. I don't know what happened to him. He just kind of died on the sidelines. James started just getting torched by Jalen Brunson over and over and over again. He kept the two bigs out there. I don't know where Merrill came in,

maybe with three minutes left. I don't think we saw Struis at all in the fourth quarter. Yeah, that was the bizarre thing to me. That was a rock and a hard place game because you had to choose which side of the narrative coin you wanted to subscribe to. On the one hand, the Knicks nine days off. So there's going to be the rust factor. The three-point shooting was abysmal for three and a half quarters.

On the other hand, all of the numbers in the history of the NBA say that a team coming off of a game seven win with a short turnaround time on the road. It's very much in favor of the home team with the rest. And, you know, that's definitely the betting angle that you're supposed to. So somehow that got borne out because that's what happened in the next somehow covered. And yet if you watched the game, you felt like the calves were in complete control. I was wondering, complete and complete control. I was wondering three quarters in.

I'm like, fuck, what do they do with this big lineup? Like, are they going to have to start Towns and Robinson next game? Are they going to have to match the Bigs with the Bigs? And then they went the other way. They went shooters. And, you know, I think Mitchell, I had him down after the third quarter with 24 points. So he had five points in the last 17 minutes of the game and just was not involved. I felt like Hardin was had the ball all the time on one end.

And then on the other end was just constantly defending Brunson over and over again. and I don't know where Mitchell was either. So that was your worst case scenario if I'm a Cavs fan. I have in the deep recesses of my brain, I'm terrified of James Hardin in big games. I'm terrified of teams honing it on him and making him play defense. And then I'm also worried that there's going to be a little

who should take over here, which I thought they had solved, but I guess they didn't. No, we had another. Oops, he did it again. James Hardin, five made field goals. six turnovers, five made field goals, six. How is that possible?

How in this era can a guy have this many games where turnovers surpassed made field goals? Well, he's old. I mean, he's old. There is that. One thing I noticed the Knicks were doing with him, and I didn't understand why the previous two playoff teams didn't do this. I don't really think he can go by anyone anymore. And the Knicks were, he does the thing, he does a lot of stutter steps.

he's going to get and then he does a step back and i thought in the last two rounds everyone was falling for that and then this especially bridges who i thought was great tonight bridges was like yeah he dude i'm not falling for that i don't think you're going by me and when you go and do that step back i'm going to be right there in your face and i just thought hard and had a lot of trouble getting going mowgli was really good um and then mitchell was i had all these notes that i guess i just have to throw away about mitchell after three quarters because i had this whole thing about um is this mitchell's moment. First team, All-MBA guys who never made the finals, which is like kind of a shorter list than you think. It's basically like Dame, Nash, Paul George, C Webb, Tracy McGrady,

Joel, Embed. Like, it's less than 10 people. And it was like, can he get off that list? Can he have like his, maybe this is it? And the Knicks looked so dispirited. It just felt like maybe we read this series wrong. I really thought the Knicks were going to kill the Cavs in the series. Well, the version of the Knicks that I thought what was the advantage version was the first quarter where all of their points are coming

in the paint, and that's true. They dominated points in the paint this entire game. And their ability, especially you made a good observation about bridges and his defense on Hardin. He just, they

have an advantage over Detroit. Detroit doesn't have any guards that could put any pressure at all on Cleveland's guards, but immediately the Knicks made Hardin and Mitchell uncomfortable. Now, I thought Mitchell was pretty awesome across the

game, but it's the full Mitchell experience. So the fourth quarter. Guess how many, guess how many free throws he took? How many? One. He was one for one from the free throw line. And what was he for assists? And this is the issue, right? He ended up with three assists

and four turnovers. But here's the thing, right? When you are in the midst of the run that the Knicks went on, and they waited about as long as they could wait, it was, you know, a historic point. It was 22 points with seven and a half minutes left. Like this has happened five times in the history of the playoffs. Right.

But the true greats, the true grates, the guys, the first team all NBA guys, recognize what is happening. And they go into their bag. Yeah. Right. They settle their own team down. settle down juice all over the place. They changed the pace of what the other team is trying to do.

You've got to get to the free throw line at that point. You can't keep just chucking up threes and that's what Cleveland did. That's why Mobley ended up with with 16 attempts. Right. Eight three-point attempts from Mobley. You know, I just think blowing a 22 point lead, I don't care how great the crowd was. We won't talk about the crowd in a second. How much of a heater Brunson was on. Twenty-two points is so many points and minutes that it's so many points i felt like akinson was just this passive observer to the whole thing i remember i've told this story before but the celtics pacer's game seven in 2005 so this is ricky davis paul pierce that team and it was the post melee pacers and i thought that was one of the best

coaching jobs i've ever seen by carlyle that year and he was like he was still missing some of his guys but they took a big lead and every time the celtics even had a chance of coming he was time out, or like some sort of thing to stop it. And it was just disjointed from that point on. That Knicks run, it just felt like it was continuous. It was like watching a sports movie. Just felt like Brunson had the ball over and over and over again. They didn't really trap them until like two minutes left. And then the big thing was Towns had that terrible foul. Yes. Where he has to pretend. He can't believe they called it. It's like you fucking pulled the guy, Towns. So, O.G is inside the free throw line with six feet of space in front of them.

And Towns is holding Allen. And I think that was to cut it to two. And then the cabs went back up six. And it was like, wow, Towns just screwed up the game for them. But then Bridges made a huge three. And that like near the end of the shot clock, too. And then Shamet made a massive three. And all of a sudden it was tied.

Then Hardin made a really nice little James Hardin foul line thing. Brunson came back and made it. We had to talk about how great some of that shop making Brunson. I mean, we've seen him do that. So you almost take it for granted. Yes. But he had five. holy shit shots during that run.

He had like opposite hand floaters off the glass. He had like high ones that seemed like there was no chance it was going to go in, but it did. He was in threes. And the Knicks went off the scent. He did. He threw us off the stand. Second and third quarter, he was shit.

They scored 23 points. The first quarter of the second quarter of the third quarter, 23, and 23. Well, the thing is, and we're texting at the end of the third quarter about a live bet on the Knicks. because we've seen this next game 15 times this year, right? And we thought they had graduated out of it, maybe the Hawk series and the Philly series like that. This is now the new Knicks. They're using Townsmore.

But the reality is they played a bunch of games like this this year where they look like shit for three quarters and then they go on a heater. And I think the crowd was waiting for it. I was waiting for it. But once it got to seven and a half minutes left down by 22, it's like, okay, I guess maybe they missed the window. And then Brunson was just like, boom. And the crowd knew it.

They knew when it got to within 15, they knew it was happening. And I thought that crowd was a 10 out of 10. Kudos to everybody who was there. Though they were dying, they were waiting for any just the slightest opening. Yeah. And the fact that it came with seven and a half minutes left, just all they needed the Knicks to do was string together a couple of buckets. But I do want to pat myself on the back a tiny bit.

For your last bit? Yes, because at the end of the third quarter going into the fourth. What I texted to our thread, does anyone feel like the Knicks can make a fourth quarter run in this shit fest? What did I text you back? I said yes. I'm staring at 10 and a half like it might grow a pair of boobs. That's what I wrote to our group. I'm like staring at it.

Direct quote from house. And then, you know, to Rahim's credit, Dream says, you know what? On Christmas Day, we had a very similar scenario. me and our boy, J.J. J. Stremski, tried to talk dreaming. J.J. tried to say, no, don't do it. Don't mess with it. Yeah. You don't, don't. And then, and then by golly, the Nix came all the way. And you reminded everybody. This is what the Nix do. It's incredible.

This is what they do. With that said, at the end of regulations, Sam Meryl, semi-wide open, takes the three. It was down. Mike Breen gave it a half, he gave it a Buh. Did you hear this? I rewounded it to make sure I say that he was married from three, but no,

it's out. He said the buff. He said the double bangs. This was his first bug. He was going to bang it. And it really did like it went in and rattled out and just got the ghost MSG kicked it out. But that thing was dead center.

The cavaliers can Laja complain about Breen doing these games in MSG? You know, the karma of Mike Breen calling a Knicks. He is the most impartial. He's brilliant, but I mean, the karma, Buh. Did he do the one last year, though? Did he do Halliburton last year? That would be, maybe he didn't because it switches every year. So Brunson ended up, what did he end up with for the game? Did he have 38? But he had 36 after regulation. And so I had 42, 11 run for the Knicks at one point.

So I don't know. What do we name this game? Is it the Bucson? game? Is it the God Hits Cleveland game? This might be a God hates Cleveland game. I don't know. It's too much. It's an outcome where if you had shown this to us, this box score, oh, it went to overtime.

That's cute. You say, oh, Cleveland, good job. Good job, Cleveland. Good effort. Good try. So much worse than that. It was. Because you can't be up 22.

Because they had this whole narrative about getting, over the hump. We thought they revealed themselves on Friday night when they completely choked in that the Detroit game game game game. Mitchell plays one of the best games of his career. They tossed their balls on the table. And yet today they reverted back to who they were 53s, by the way, 16 for 50. 50s. I don't love from them either. I just don't like that. 19 turnovers. They have all the eight threes for Mobley. I just don't like it. And for three quarters, I thought they were doing everything right. Like even when they start. started doing the hacker Robinson.

I was like, yeah, I kind of like this. Don't let the Knicks get back in the game. They definitely have an advantage inside. I mean, there is, Towns was lost. They, they can't run him at the elbow. You know what, the way that the Knicks had so much success in the last series, they, they had Carl Anthony Towns at the elbow. Did you see his turnovers?

At the free throw line. Yeah. The free, yeah. And they were putting little guys on him. And yes. The announcers, Jefferson. and Legler, our guys, they were like, I don't understand why they don't put towns on the

low block and try to punish these guards. It's like, yeah, we asked that question every time this happens. They never do it. He doesn't want to go down there. That's just what it is. So they got to unlock him. I thought they were way too Brunson-centric for the first three quarters. Fourth quarter they had to because that was the only way they're getting back

in the game, but they felt very stagnant. Same old Brunson stuff. And the Mitch and Towns, I would consider throwing that lineup out there together a little bit too. For Cleveland. The version of OG also, first game back in, what is it, two weeks now?

And that was another big Cleveland mistake. Two for nine. Guess who I'm leaving wide open in the last five minutes of the game and trapping off his guy, OG. I didn't think his threes were going in. He shot that airball in overtime. I didn't. Well, he didn't think they were going either.

He didn't want to shoot it. He was like trying to pass him. He stopped taking the threes and he started driving in and to get to, you know, inside the free throw line. He was going for a floater. I mean, he was going for a floater on the play that the town's committed to foul. Yeah. The crowd tonight.

So this has been, obviously the Knicks have ignited the city. This series and then the finals that they can get there are going to be among the hardest tickets in New York history. Crowd was locked in today. Nobody left. There was a moment, I think it was after maybe when Shammett, whoever hit the game tie in three is either Shaman or Bridges. And they wide shot it. Cleveland didn't call time. out and the announcers weren't even talking because I don't even think they could hear it.

And they did the wide shot and people were just jumping up and down. It was like, it was like a walk off baseball home run or something. Everybody was just so deliriously happy that they came back. It was a really great atmosphere. I kind of wish I had gone. I think it would have been worth a 3,000 mile trip to be to be there for that one. You know, I don't, game one. No, I'm just saying, I wish I had been in the atmosphere of that. Yes, for sure. I mean, the next fans are about as thirsty as it gets. Pretty soon you'll be there with AJ DeBanza and Towns and Trey Young. Maybe.

Kishan George. Maybe. Why not? Why not us? Could happen. All right. So what do we think for the series? I'll give you some odds.

Don't look. The series odds right now. Every time I go to Fandul now, they send me to the prediction thing first. Then I have to go round about around it. Come on Fandul. Um, playoffs, futures. Okay. Oh, that seems high.

Minus 375 for the next? That sounds right. Just for winning game one, which they were supposed to win? They had the, the, the, you, you said it at the beginning. Cavs have to win four out of the next, you know. Well, you got to tell us, is this it for the Cavs? Is that a death blow? No.

mean, do you think they could win this series? Would you, would you wager on the calves plus 310? I wouldn't wager on the, I didn't wager on the calves at the beginning of the series. Nothing's changed about my opinion on this. I think they're done. I think they had to win this game. The single biggest difference to me is the return of OG who got to the free throw line 10 times, even with all of, you know, the stuff he's coming in.

Yeah. Yeah. But that that team is. It looked explosive, too. Yeah. It's just a deep team. They have weapons in a lot of different ways. They can defend, you know, with the best of them.

And the fact that they were asleep for two quarters after not playing competitive basketball against a team that just came off a game seven win. Yeah. You don't, it doesn't change my opinion overall of what this next team is all about and where I think they're headed. Rusty and lethargic. I have more concerns about towns than I did three days ago, but I feel like they can

some of the stuff that Cavs were doing I'm wondering the next series especially if they play the Wembe UFO I think I think I think some of some of the tricks will be emulated okay we've talked about the next series enough that was a great game not as great as the game last night

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All right, House, the arrival. The UFO has landed. Wembe has emerged from the UFO. He's 7 foot 7. and he's here to dominate the league. I had a Tiger 97 Augusta kind of feeling watching the game last night.

Like that something was changing for real. The sport was being appended in a real way. And I know that's going to sound stupid if they end up losing this series. But I don't even think the winner lose the series doesn't matter. He was doing something last night that I just felt like something the sport had shifted.

And I'm not the only person to say that. But it did bring me back to Augusta. and all of a sudden Augusta, it just felt small for Tiger, remember? We were like, fuck, this was like the hardest, weirdest course we have, and he's like just annihilating it.

What's happening? Everything Wembe was doing last night. He took out SGA. SGA was a mess. He completely took out Chet to the point that it was almost debatable whether he should be out there. He took out Hart and Statenstein.

They'd take out two minutes into the game. He changed 50 shots. 41 points, 24 rebounds, the blocks. He had a 32-footer to tie the game. He had a game-tying shot in the interregulation. And did this all on the road. Did this with the fuck-you energy from the MVP, not getting that.

Shout out to Hakeem in 95 against Robinson. It was hard not to think about that moment. I sent you the YouTube clip last night. And just backed it up in all these different ways. And I think for me, it's that he walks to walk and then backs it up and does shit that we've just never. ever seen. And it, you know, talking about arrival games, MJ's 63 point game, Kobe in the 2000 finals after Shaq fouled out in game four, LeBron in 2007, the 48 special against Detroit.

Curry had that unbelievable 2013 game one against the Spurs, which everybody forgets now because there's been so many great games, but he, when he goes into the next round against the Spurs, I think he has, I don't know, like 10 threes or 40 plus points and just was going against this great spurs team by himself. It felt like on that level, like it was a before and after with this game. You agree with that? Of course. And the numbers back it up. I mean, you have to go all the way back to 1970 to find a performance where a player 22 years old or younger has a combination of 40, 20.

that's Kareem. There's only two players in the history of the game at that age to have a 40-20. That's Kareem and now Wembe. Yeah. And you have to use as your reference point all of the great playoff performances, the highest leverage performances

to create the context. And if we didn't have that Pacers comeback last year against the Knicks, that just incredible out of the, The Halburn game. You could say, like, you know, so I was in my text thread, greatest game one in a conference finals ever?

I have the list. I made a list. In the conversation. Here's what I wrote down. You tell me if it beat these games. I went to this game, so I'm a little biased. 2018 game one finals,

the J.R. Smith game. I think that was the last great game. That game was eight years ago because LeBron is going against this, you know, juggernaut, all-time Golden State team,

and he's basically taking it to him by himself and physically dominated them. I think he had 50 or 51, whatever he did. Cleveland lost.

Cleveland lost an OT. That's the problem. I'm just talking about as a game. That game was fucking awesome. That game was off the charts. Awesome. Okay.

I understand what we're doing. The Rand and Curry at their peak and the Warriors still really good. That game was awesome. The Halibbean, Miracle last year, that was a game one.

And then the Iverson, 2001 finals against the Lakers, I think those are the most important four for this century, for different reasons, right? Iverson, yeah, Iverson really needed that one in the legacy in the big picture. It's the only time made the finals. He took,

that was the best Laker team, and I think that was probably the second best team of this century. And he just went toe to toe with Shaq and Kobe, and beat them, did the step over. Shack had a 40-20 that game. We were reminded, you know, inside the NBA this evening. So I would go those four. And then the runner-ups, the 2008 finals, Celtics Lakers, game one, the Paul Pierce wheelchair

game. So even that became the, and it was also a really good game. But just that the Celtics and Lakers were in the finals again and the hype leading up to that, I think, is there. Dallas-San-Antonio-3. Dirk had a 3815. Duncan had a 40-15. And this was like, we thought this was going to be the start of a Dirt first Duncan run. And it ended up for a variety of reasons,

not getting wet. But that game was awesome. I don't want to sleep on that. 97 finals, Chicago, Utah. Malone wins the MVP. And then Jordan hits the game winner and does the... Yes. That's got to be on there. 95 finals, Orlando Houston, Nick Anderson, the free throws, the four free throws. I wouldn't say that was a great game, but if you're talking drama and memory, sure. It was one of the most memorable games of every scene. I remember watching it. I know right where I

was. Yeah. I could put myself right back there right now. Same year, Indy, New York, round two was the Reggie eight points and nine seconds. Okay. 92 finals, Chicago Portland, MJ hits the six threes, 35 in the first half, does the Shrog. That was the game one? Yeah. Wow. And then the 91 finals, which is another one that's like an awesome game, but it's 35 years ago. Bulls, Lakers, Magic versus MJ for the first time. Magic hits Perkins for a three to go ahead.

MJ has a jumper to tie it, and it does the Mike Green bah and rattles around but doesn't go in and they lose. And I think in the last 40 years, those are the ones. And I could go 70s. An incredible list. Tell everybody, go on YouTube and watch some of these games.

Please go watch those. But I really think this century, those four, 26, 18, gold state, Cleveland, the Halliburn game and the Iverson game. I think those were the best four. Usually game ones aren't great. We've had some fun, weird ones. Remember that year of Phoenix beat San Antonio

in like 03, 02 somewhere in there with Marbury? Marbury hit like a half-court shot. Oh, yeah, that was crazy. And it was like the one great Marbury Phoenix moment. Maybe it was 2001. I don't remember 2003, whatever it was. We've had some good ones that Celtics Bulls, 2009, Rose's rookie year was good, but those are the best ones.

Usually the series, there's like a feeling out. And this one did it. And it was one of the things I wrote down was like, how it's like the speed of that game compared to what normal basketball is. Like you watch a game like tonight and it just feels like it's on a podcast that's 1.0 versus last night the game was at a 1.5. Well, part of it is that is because these teams are familiar with each other, this iteration of these teams and what the spurs did that's so remarkable over the course of the regular season

they used each of these matchups with Oklahoma City as referendum games for them like this is why that organization is heads and shoulders above all all others you know in the league it's it's why the spurs have occupied rarefied air for 35 years 30 years let's say well they've also had some some fucking luck out No doubt. They won a Wembe lottery and Dunkin Lottery. And the Dunkin Lottery. Three teams pass on Dillon Hart, on Stefan Castle, including your stupid team.

And then Dylan Harper at two. All that is true. And yet they are, they've routinely maximized that good fortune. They really have. You're correct. And they jump through the opportunity door. And it's apparent that this season coming into it, they're like, every time that we play Oklahoma City,

we are going to get in that ass. We're going to, it's an experiment, we're going to be physical, we're going to run SGA off the ball. I mean, part of the thing, you gave Wemby credit for some impact on SGA. The answer is to that, to me, is yes, but it was a masterful game.

It was everybody. Yeah, yeah. It was everybody. It's the physicality of those guards. They doubled him. They run him off the ball. And what that creates is open shots for Alex Caruso. That's fine because Caruso knocked a whole bunch of them down.

In Oklahoma City could have won. But I think the Spurs are like, if we lose to Alex Caruso, that's okay. We are willing to live with that outcome. By the way, what the Cavs should have done today with Annanobi. Yeah, they... Sure. I mean, the thing last night, Wembe's point guard, because Darren Fox doesn't play, Castle mostly plays point guard, is 11 turn.

He played hard. He did a lot of good things, but 11 turnovers. He was trying. And the other ball hand were Dylan Harper, who had an awesome game, and I want to talk about him in a little bit. But he's 20 years old.

And they're in OKC. And at one point, there's a couple points where OKC's like, here are our best defensive guys. We're just putting them all out there. Good luck. And it felt like they couldn't start their offense with it 40 feet from the basket.

It felt like they couldn't even figure out had to get Wemby the ball, even though he was 7 foot 7, 25 feet from the basket. And Wembe still pulled off the game with some help from his guys. There was a couple of big threes. Like Champany hit a huge three in the corner. I thought Vassell had a couple really big plays. He did. Castle.

Never lost his confidence, even with all the turnovers, which I really appreciated. And I thought the defense, the fact that I wrote down in my notes, they basically they basically forced okay seeing in this lineup that I'm not sure they're going to not be able to do the rest of the time where they basically had three guards with Jdub, with Chet

because they have to figure out a way to pull Wembe away from the basket. So they're just going to, like Hartenstein, I don't think can play in this series. I'm not positive Dwart can really play big minutes and crunch time in this series either

because whoever they have who's not a three, threat, Wembe's just going to guard that guy and help off him. So it's going to be a chess match, but I feel like the chess has already been played to some degree. We'll see. The questions for me is in the next game, are they going to just say Fox and Harper shoot threes until your heart, we're going to double team Wemby, we're going to trap them,

we're to make him give up the ball, and if you guys hit threes, God bless. I would assume that's the move for them. OK, see, I think I already made their moves by the second half of that game. I don't know. There are some things that feels like OKC can do to free up SGA. Like, you know, we're going to see some innovation yet. Like what, though? Well, I mean, there'll be some unique screening kind of situations. You know, we're going to see a version of SGA, I imagine, that's akin to the way that Steph gets free.

They run him off of, you know, pinned down. He's running the entire, the entirety of possession for the. totally his game though. I was wondering, are they going to stagger him for when Wembe's out of the game? You try to have SGA in the 10 non-Wemby minutes and stuff like that. That also sounds like a fine way of doing it. But what they have to get comfortable with and what SGA has to get comfortable with is he's got to be a mid-range shooter now. Because you just can't go to the rim.

You can't get to the rim. And you can see Oklahoma City palpably dramatically impacted. It's not just the blocks and the altered shots. It's that the lane is no longer available. So you have to become comfortable in the mid-range. And that is a version of basketball that you and I watched. We grew up with it. But it's not how they play modern basketball.

Yeah, there was some good stats. Dealey 4-3, David Lay, That's his Twitter account, though, was talking about how SGA drives basically 19 times a game during the season and passes 38% of the time. But last night, 30 drives, and he passed 54% of the time, right? So it's not a huge thing, but it felt that way watching it. Like, he was trying to get to spots, and there was always Wembe. I had this reader, a listener sent this great email about how we should nickname, change Wimby's nickname to Jaws. Because when the people decide to go in the paint,

it's like when the swimmers go in the water and it's like, nah, nah, nah, and they're tripling and just, and the, Wembe's just kind of looming around with the shark costume. But it does feel like he's changed. I don't know how SGA snaps out of it, but SGA didn't seem as comfortable. He actually seemed the most comfortable just doing stepback threes, right? So that could work.

That could work. I mean, he is the MVP of the league. We're going to see some wrinkles out of this, this Oklahoma City. This is part of why this series feels so rich. It's because the strategy element of this, I expect to see something new every game. We're not going to see the same game twice.

I don't feel like in this series. Well, you know what else we might see in this game, this game too, is, hey, can we start roughing up Wembee here? There was a clip that went around. this morning about Chet stepping on his foot during a free throw. Did you see that? No, I didn't see it. They were next to each other boxing out and right when the ball went up,

Chet just stepped on his foot to try to trip him. And I wonder if they're going to start doing a whole bunch of stuff like that and trying to get in and said. One thing with San Antonio, they don't really have an enforcer. Well, this is like if you're going to play Hardinstein, he has six fouls. Like that that's the point of Einstein being on the floor. Yeah. The six fouls that he brings to the table.

It just unleashes Wemby. on the other end. He can just do whatever he wants. But you're right. Maybe use them to beat him up. I think ultimately, Chet's going to have to figure out a way to defend him because the problem with putting the guards on him,

which sort of worked and got Caruso going, but then you give up all these offensive rebounds. Like, he had nine offensive rebounds last night. So you're making it harder for him to get the ball, but then on possessions, you're giving them like an extra six, seven, eight possessions a game. And I don't think that's worth it.

Big picture on Wembe, we weren't there for Wilt. We were there for world enough to remember 70s Kareem with the goggles, and then obviously 80s Kareem when he wasn't really the same. But this does feel like what that must have been like when you just went to a game and Wilt was just destroying everybody. Sure. We've had some great centers over the years that we've certainly loved talking about and loved watching.

but when somebody can do it on both ends like that and just completely destroy the psyche of a crowd and you know we didn't talk about the 32 foot shy yet which was one of the great moments of this century for basketball for me like an all-time holy shit from the exact Steph Curry spot did you think it was going in

because I actually did I don't know why it happened so fast it was both an ooh and I was actually I had my kid with me and I, because I grabbed him.

I'm like, you got to watch this. You're not permitted. This is, this is the history. And you want, you're going to be pointing to this, you know,

as you grow up as, as, you know, something significant. And we both, I had an, ooh, I was like,

when he pulled up, I like, oh, and I was like, ah, you know, oh, one of those.

One of those. Like, unbelievable. I was looking for it because he, he kind of likes that shot. The problem was he was so far away. But I saw him trailing and I was like,

kind of just watching it. But then when he pulled up, I thought he was going to stop and realize he was too far. He just fired it. Somebody took the clip of Steph doing it with Breins double bang and synced up the timing with Wembe.

So they're on top of each other. And it's really, whoever did an extraordinary job. It's basically the same spot, right? It is. It is. You can see that's what makes it so impressive. Is it like Stefan and Wembe are in the same spot on the floor? I went back and I read the piece that I wrote after LeBron's 48 special against Detroit. And, you know, it was like this real last potential thing for all of us.

And I thought I actually, I actually kind of liked what I wrote. I was like, all right, I kind of captured that one a little bit. But it was basically like, here's this guy with all these tools. And we're hoping it's inside him and we're watching game after game week after week, kind of hoping something like this will happen, and then it started happening. Now, he's doing that against an 07 Pistons team that was getting a little long in the tooth. The league's pretty weak that year. There's only like five teams that, you know, the Cavs made the finals that year with one of the worst finals teams we've had. But it was a moment and it was like

a really good sign when it happened, like, oh, this guy, he really might have it. Like, this might be like a real Jordan challenger. This is the first real sign we have that there's some real specialness here. I already felt that way with Wembe. And even we were texting before the game, the MVP thing, it was like notable because of the history of what's happened in basketball with this with Jordan and Malone in 97

and with Hakeem and Robinson. It was like, this is interesting. He's not going to like that they gave SGA the MVP. And I think that's my favorite thing about him, about anything, is I think he's a real fucking dick. Like, he's a competitive motherfucker. I do love that. Did you see that video of him watching the ceremony?

He was like pissed off. Yes, yes. I mean, and all of those historical parallels that we just eat up. We just can't get enough. Yeah, this is what we love. And we get the benefit. I mean, there was a half dozen different ways for the Spurs to lose that basketball game. Sure was.

What did you think when they went in? 32.32 foot three. Yeah. And that was the first overtime. Yeah. They were down, they were down three at that point. It wasn't even regulation. It was in overtime.

I thought they were going to lose. I thought they were going to lose because of the minutes. Yeah. Because we haven't seen it out of him and the impact of no Fox, what that meant, you know, the extra minutes on Harper, the extra minutes on Castle and the yeah, the turnovers. I mean, what did Harper and Castle combine for turnover-wise? They were discombobulated. I kept thinking back to that Denver,

that Saturday Denver, San Antonio game that was awesome, that went an overtime. Yolk's last great game. The game that earned Yokage number two on my MVP ballot, I thought Wembe got tired in the overtime of that game.

And you could see it. So when I was watching the game last night, I kept thinking he was going to wear down. And he just didn't. Like, whether it was the adrenaline of what was going on or the fact that they hadn't played for a couple of days, but I'd never thought he looked that tired.

The Spurs guys after the game said he had no legs. We couldn't believe he took that. I never felt like he was worn out because I think when he gets worn out, he starts falling down and you can kind of see it. I didn't feel that way last night. I felt like he showed some fatigue, but I think the Oklahoma City couldn't be, can't be, we'll see how it goes as physical as Minnesota was.

So, like, I, you know, I think it was a little bit of a breather for him against Oklahoma City because he just didn't have to take on any of that physicality. I mean, the size of Minnesota was legit, and it was the only way for them to really compete was to lean on him, to push him, to be in his space, and they could rotate Gobert and Randall in that role. Oklahoma City doesn't have that. No. The other thing with Wembe,

I don't say this lately, I really feel like he checks all the competitive boxes. Even when I've seen him in person, I don't feel like he's mailing it in, doesn't give a shit. I feel like he really cares and he's really competitive all the time. Honestly, the way Jordan was,

that was one of the things we loved about Jordan. Jordan always cared. He always put the proper level of competitiveness and respect on the game and really like just wanted to cut everybody's throat out. And it does feel like Wembe's wired like that a little bit. And for a center, that's a really rare treat. That's the accelerant.

This is why we're in this position where we're having to revisit our priors on how quickly can a young team come together and really properly threatened. The history of the NBA is littered with upstart teams, upstart young teams who have the talent but don't have the basketball IQ, the wherewithal, the, you know, the reps under these high leverage moments. And I wonder if it's the 77 Blazers is the only team that did it. That's really it. I wonder if they were accumulating those reps over the regular season. How about this? Did Wemby did the, was the Olympics, his version of those reps? I got that email a few times from people

because it's not like, oh, he's never tasted his own blood. It's like he actually did it in the 24 Olympics. Right? That was the first time he took some haymakers. Yeah. Steph gave it to him and he got to understand what it was like. But this is why I was wondering aloud about this idea of each of those games against Oklahoma City in the regular season as refereeing games.

Like really matter. And they kicked ass all season long. They did not take nights off to your observation, your point. That's right. They didn't. That competitiveness. And it wasn't just Wemby. It was that whole Spurs team because Wemby missed a whole bunch of games.

And they still won the number that they won. And it was like 25 games over, whatever, their win total, 20 games over what their forecast the wind total was supposed to be like. I said Sunday, I genuinely thought they're going to win the series. And I think Wembe, I just think we're going to be coming to grips with what's happening here over the course of the next four weeks. I was on one text ride where they were like, said, like, oh, there's those meetings to face the league and doing all that stuff.

I don't know what face of the league means. I just know that this is the biggest appointment TV viewing that the league has had since Curry and the Warriors in the middle 2010s. And this doesn't happen very often. We weren't sure if it was going to happen again with anybody we had. And we always try to put the guys that we have in position.

You know, you and I love watching Joker. Not everyone loves watching them. Wembe appeals to every single person because of how tall he is and how skilled he is and how unusually is and how much he gives a shit. And I think this will end up being probably the most watched series

non-finals that the league has had at least in 10 years. And it definitely passes the mom test. I'm sure whoever's mom or dad that doesn't follow sports probably brought up the Wemby game to you today, right? Or to whoever's listening. It's just the way it is.

And people who missed it, they won't miss tomorrow night, they won't miss the Wednesday night game because it is absolutely appointment TV. We have the reigning MVP of the league in SGA that's a controversial figure,

you know, the worm has turned a little bit a lot of, you got get 50-50 on foul merchant out of out of SGA. They went to calling him yesterday. The reps were great yesterday. I like that on both sides. You and me both? I thought it was fine. I thought it was a very fair game.

but you know and you you put that alongside a player that none of us have seen you you had you know Jamal Crawford last night say we've never seen a guy like this before we can't really process it I mean I have my quibbles with with Reggie Miller oh really oh god I just leave it alone there's no reason he's a nice guy um Dylan Harper Okay, let's do it. I watched the game yesterday with my daughter, who's coming up later on the podcast, actually, who was half paying attention all the time.

And at one point she turned to me and said, wow, you really love Dylan Harper. Is he like your favorite non-Seltic? And I said, I think he might be. I think like after Yoko Chikuri, I just love Dylan Harper. I love how he plays. I sound like Collinsworth.

I just love Dylan Harper. I just love that kid. I just love that kid so much. I was just in awe of what he was doing yesterday where they're like, hey, Fox isn't playing. We know you're 20, and we know we're going against the team that has the best collection of defensive guards probably of the last 15 years.

Do you think you could give us 40 plus minutes tonight and do a whole bunch of shit and maybe go ISO every once in a while and go grab some rebounds? Oh, and jump in the passing lanes and get, what do you have, seven steals and get big rebounds in traffic? Oh, and don't get tights and time. even though you should be like a sophomore in college, I thought what he did was out of control.

And if anything, I was texting people during crunch time in the OTs, like, you know, as the castle thing was really going sideways. Like, why don't they run stuff for Harper? Why don't they run high pick and roll for him with a shooter? Like, I want to see, I think OKC would have trouble defending that. I had to ball across half court in the first place. Maybe that was part of the problem.

And he ended up being the guy a bunch of time. Yeah, I think they really need. him in this series. But what he did yesterday, I thought I was just, I was so impressed. And I'll say this, house, you know, I don't say stuff like this lately because you've known me for almost 40 years. To me, like, we saw Cade in college and, you know, the first five years, you and I were, we, I didn't even have a internet call when he got traded the first time. And you and I were so apoplectic that they traded him, Dallas. We were like, how do you trade Jason Cater? Are you got, Like, that's insane.

How do you ever in a million years do that? I think of him, I think a Chris Paul in the mid-2000s. Like, we're talking about, like, top 50 guys ever and some of the best young guards we've seen in our lifetime. And I think he's going to be as good as those guys. I really do. I think he's going to be, like, a Hall of Fame, multiple first-team Omba type of guard.

Well, the cool thing is, if you had Harper Stock when they drafted him, an important element of what's going to propel that stock into return on investment, you know, double-digit strata is how free he can play basketball with playing alongside Victor Webbinge. It's the perfect guy to play with him. He's absolutely perfect. That's exactly.

He only shot one for seven from three last night. I know. And it would have been, but he got to the free throw line. I mean, he's the multi-faster, 11 rebounds. Like, how is he getting double-digit rebounds? Well, that's what the team needed out of him. And, you know, he was able to drop down and grab. And the poise going to the hole.

This is what was so remarkable. There you go. That's it. That's right. Exactly. He took every bump. He took every bit of, and this is why the spurs are so live in the series. It's because I think they can out physical Oklahoma City.

Yeah. Right? They took the blow that Minnesota represented. Minnesota was a wake-up call. Game one of that series was a wake-up call for these spurs. Welcome to the playoffs, gentlemen. Now we've officially started. Yes.

Right. And to their great credit, they recalibrated it. They're like, oh, okay. Well, here's what we have. Here's what we can do. And they could handle that physicality. I think Minnesota did them a great service in preparing them for this series. And they showed up ready to get in that ass.

And they did. They were in it all game long. They were physical with SGA. Now the one thing, you said it a couple of minutes ago, will we have that whistle? What's that whistle going to be throughout the balance of this series? And in fact, for both sides. You just ask you right now, what's that whistle going to be tomorrow night, Wednesday night? I think tomorrow's going to be.

The line is the exact same. It's the exact same line, which suggests that I, what, is Fox playing or not playing? It'll be a game time decision? I would assume he's playing. He should play. And I would assume. It would be better. I really think this series is going to get small and it's going to be the three guards against the three guards on OKC, whoever they are.

Jdub and Visell and then the and Chet and Wemby. And that's just that's just what we're going to do. And it's going to be an OKC will probably look at that game one and say we should have won. The Champany 3, really hard shot shouldn't have gone in. Jalen Williams and double O.T. That terrible shot he took with like 35 seconds left, that kind of rush shot. It wasn't necessary. He had like bad shots.

I'm sure they looked at the tape and like, we should have won that game. That was stupid. The difference is Fox is going to come back. And Harper got a taste of it. Harper now knows the speed. He understands like a three-hour game like that, that there's levels to it. You got to save stuff. I just, I look at Harper and I'm like, this, this is the worst he's ever going to be right now.

Right? Over the next 10 years, this is the worst version of him and he's already awesome. And then Castle is 21. That's the other crazy thing. It's not, you almost look like Castle's like a 27 year old. He's 21 and, you know, botting through everybody and he's one of the most physical guys in the series. I still think San Antonio is going to win. I thought that before the series, I think that after game won.

I don't know how many games it's going to be. But I just think... I hope it's seven. I want seven of these. This is an incredible matchup. So the guys to watch in game two, number one is Chet. I think this is the biggest game of his career so far.

He's going to have a long career and there'll be a lot more good ones. But I thought he just got his ass kicked in game one and he's got to figure out. He can't only have seven attempts. I need to feel you in this game. I did not really feel you in that first game. I felt Caruso. And then the other thing, which I mentioned before the series, and maybe it'll shake itself out with Hartenstein,

not playing as much, but they played 11 guys in the first half. And that was a big thing I was worried about with the OKC. Is like, do they know who their best guys are? Did they know what their best lineups are? I just don't think they totally know. I think they have like eight guys they trust. But I'm not sure he knows what should be wearing. The Jalen Williams thing is a big thing to introduce out of nowhere in third round.

for any and he took 25 shots. Right. Welcome back, Jay Doe. Right. They were open. Get your 25 piece. I mean,

he took two more shots than SGA. I'm going to read you a list of the best 21st century games. And you tell me was the game we saw last night. I'll go game by game. You tell me if it was better or worse. So we just did the game ones. No,

I'm going to best games. We said, It was an incredible go. Go ahead, fine. Just trust me. Okay. Was it better than the Halliburton game last year? I liked it better.

Does that help any? That's the right answer. I liked it better. Was it better than the... You know why I liked it better? Because the Spurs were seven-point underdogs missing the air in Fox, and they had every excuse in the book

to not, you know, to just come into that environment. on MVP night, right? And just, you know, show a great effort and then let Oklahoma City do what they do, which is, you know, win by 10 or 12. I have it over that game. Do you have it over Game 4, 2002 finals, Curry, basically his legacy game that led to his fourth title? No.

Much more at stake in that game. Much more at stake. The leverage is so different. So that's a T. I'm going to make that a TBD because if San Antonio wins this series, I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to have a hard time putting that game last night, a game one in a conference finals with a brand new team with the identity of the Spurs

over any finals game, any legacy games. I think that's the right answer. Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Game 7, Durant Foot in the line. Yeah, that was an awesome game. I think last thing was better. Because I think the quality was better. Because that game had, Durant was great, but it had James Harden on one leg. There was no Kyrie.

Yep. Now, the last night was better. Philly Toronto, Game 7, Kauai shot that bounced way up in the air and went in. Oh. I think I got to give it to that, Philly Kauai. I think that one was better. I think that one was better. Yeah, that one.

That game was unbelievable. It was. The J.R. Smith game. LeBron's 51. cried after that game. We didn't have any tears last night. No. Game one finals, I think that's a really tough one.

That was like LeBron's last stand in Cleveland, basically. That 2018? Yeah, that game won. LeBron by himself against the Warriors for two and a half hours. Last night was better. That game felt more, yeah. 2016 game seven finals, that beats this. Come on, man.

The Clay Thompson. You just had to mention it? The Clay Thompson game. Which was game six against Houston? No, game six Golden State at Oklahoma City. Oh, Oklahoma City. Golden State down 3-1. They win game five.

I said Houston. I knew it was Hardin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I knew what I was talking about. It was Durant Westbrook, not Hardin. We're old. We're allowed mistakes. Clay Thompson gets on the heater right as the Golden State 73 win season is about

to go down the tubes. it's a pretty great game. Damn. I'm going to give it to Clay. I think that's the right answer. San Antonio Quipper is game seven round one. I think this was better, even though that was a fucking awesome game

that I went to, by the way. 2013 game six final San Antonio Miami, the Ray Allen game. There's no way that game was not better than last night. Come on. All right.

You're just trying to set a content. text here. I appreciate it. Last one from the last 15 years. We have two more from the last 15 years. The Bulls beating Miami to end the 27 game win streak was my favorite game that nobody talks about anymore. That game was fucking awesome. I love the win streak. I love the wind streak. I wrote like a 7,000 word column about the wind streak. That was a great column. The wind streak was awesome. That'll never happen again. Nobody's ever winning 27 straight games ever again in the regular season.

I wouldn't say that. Mode management and shit's never happening again. The Spurs might want to try and do that next season. And then the last one I had was 2011 game five, Dallas, Miami, which I went to. Jason Terry hit the big three to end it. But that was like, not one, not two, not three, Miami Heat, just taking it on the chin in game four and game five. And the crowd was delirious.

I still think last night was probably slightly better. But anyway, those are the ones I had from the last 15 years. So we kind of had it slated somewhere in the middle there. The thing is, if San Antonio wins the title and this was the best game of the entire run, I think that gains in significance, right? Okay, okay. I'll accept that. Yeah.

No pushback for me on that. What was the best tiger? Holy shit, he's in our lives forever masters. Was that 2000? Wow. Well, because, yeah, 2000. 2000 was, though, we're in trouble for a decade now. We're not at that point with Wembe yet.

We're in the 97 Masters area of Wembe. Because it's an arrival moment. It's an arrival, right? This was the highest stakes. I mean, unless you want to use the Olympics as the highest stakes, the gold medal game, France against the U.S., What, what, you know. Yeah, it was July 24.

Yeah. That was pretty important game for, for Wemby, but he's bigger now. He's stronger. Well, the greatest players ever all have a knack of coming through at a pretty precociously early age. Even Magic won the title when he was age 20, right? Yeah. Bird won a title in his second year.

Kareem won in his second year. Russell won in his first year. you know, it took LeBron a few years, but that had more to do with the crappy guys on his, on his Cleveland team. Same thing for Jordan. But for the most part, they kind of start telling us who they are

pretty early in their career. And I think he told us last night would be my big takeaway. But the Dylan Harper thing, long term, the fact that they have those two guys together with Castle as a third. I mean,

can you believe we live in a world where they're set up as better than OKCs already? it's like that would have seemed impossible a year ago. Oh. Impossible. I don't know. I'm not sure it's better.

What happens if OCC wins this series? Wemby would have to get hurt for it not to be better. What if Oklahoma City wins this series four games to one because they go on a heater? I'll take Wemby Harper and Castle. You take SGA and any other two OKC guys, which three would you rather have? Well, when OKC has Yannis next year, because. of all of the picks that they have and all of the, I mean,

which OKC are we talking about? That's the other question from this series. What if they, if San Antonio bumps it to them, is there some sort of move now? Do they look at this and go, uh-oh? I would.

Five games to one, that's a, that's a, a feature, not a bug. They've played six times these two teams, regular season, one, one playoff, and it's five games to one. Like, I, the, the evidence continues to mount. I'll just put it that way.

I mean, I know a bunch of different times when they played, not all of the, both, both teams weren't their full, complete versions of themselves, so on and so forth. But San Antonio is hell bent on sending a message. They are held bent on sending a message to Oklahoma City. They have it circled in red on their calendar, and we're just going to see. We're going to see how this plays out.

Do you see yourself turning on Wemby at any point? Over the course of the year, over the course of the playoffs, I loved the comeuppance. I felt like it was a comeuppance when the Joker and Denver beat them on that incredible Saturday night game. It was like, this is a measuring stick game. And look how close you are.

And yet there's just one other level. Yeah. That level, unfortunately, included Aaron effing Gordon not being hurt. God damn it. I'm going to be bitter about, you know, the existential crisis that Denver is in now because, and I mean, I'm not, I'm not, you know, denigrating Gordon. He just couldn't get healthy in the playoffs for two consecutive years now. And we're losing out on, on this Joker moment. And that, that Denver team was supposed to be better. Because none of us like Kareem, we can be honest about

that. I've never you know it's not in my DNA we respected him we just to hate on him no we we respected him but nobody was like I'm a huge Kareem fan I love Kareem Kareem's my guy

I think there are Lakers people that would say that they love Kareem because he was on their team yes that's right you talked yourself in the Lank Gilbert Arinas for four years Gilbert Arinas was fucking awesome I know for one season

he sure was now I think usually with the tall giant guys, eventually they become the villains. And this has happened to pretty much every tall guy has ever played basketball. I don't know if it happens with him. Because he's so different and he's so much fun to watch

and he's so competitive. I think if somebody cares as much as he cares on top of the talent, it's really hard to root against that. I know. I think there's an undercurrent out there. Ask Jacoby. Oh, I know there's an undercurrent.

I remember. Well, there's a, there's a xenophobic. thing that's happening too. Where people are like, oh, what's happening? We're losing our sport to the internationals. No,

I mean, that part I don't care about. I do like, the tough guy stuff, let's, you know, this is why I enjoyed what Minnesota did to him

in game one. Yeah. And what Lou Dorts going to be doing to him in game two? Through the entire series. I mean, they baited him into the elbow to the

throat that could have been a suspension. I'm glad it wasn't a suspension, but they got him. They won two games by being physical with him, knocking him out of his, and that's what okay. See, he's going to do the Brett Hart when Brett Hart put the metal vest under his hockey jersey when he was against Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg speared him, but Bradhart had a metal vest on. I think Lou Geert's going to wear that tomorrow. It's going to be Rammingstein. Ramby Wemby. That's what the Fowler for. That's what the Fowler for is there. I can't wait. I think tomorrow, I think this whole series is like you can't miss a minute. There's no excuse.

Tell your wife, tell your girlfriend, tell your spouse, your boyfriend. Whoever doesn't want to watch basketball with you, they can fuck off for three hours. This is a must watch every minute. We don't know when we're getting another series like this. It hasn't happened for eight years. Don't sleep on how impressive these two coaching staffs are and can be and the innovation we're going to see. It's the diametric opposite of what we watch with Cleveland. It's like Kenny Atkinson, but after a cup of coffee?

Like, I just can't, like, I still can't unsee that Detroit. I'm so glad it's over. I'm sorry I lived through it. This is the diametric opposite. These are two staffs that are so goddamn innovative where every game's going to look different. Jamal Mosley back in action with New Orleans. Congratulations. Jason Kid fired today.

Saw that. that was one of the more I forgot to predict that on a podcast because the combo of Maasai taking over Yeah that was Masai wants his guy Which is understandable But then Jason Kidd

Who during like at least the last year Luca was there Was complaining about him to everybody And there's no way he didn't know about that trade And there's no way he wasn't trying to Jedi mind trick people into trading him And he definitely knew about it before it happened And then the trade happened

He's like I didn't know anything about it I didn't know what happened. They were definitely going to Joe Pesci him at some point. Our out is like he was hoping for a front office kind of thing. Like maybe there was a wink. He tried to get the next job last summer. Deemless. He pushed him to,

you know, he definitely wink wink, wink the liquor trade. And then four months later, it's like, yeah, I'd love to check out this next thing. That was definitely one of the,

the possibilities out there. Well, maybe the Portland guy will hire him at a discount because he's already getting paid by somebody else. Well, that guy, fired 70 people today. I saw that.

Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, what, what is this league? The three most recent owners, now you can, you know, take Isbia and say, okay, classic new owner syndrome, came in, tried to make a splash,

tried to throw a team together and build excitement. I want the best players. And, you know, he hired, you know, two consecutive coaches with some pedigree, guys that had accomplished.

some things in Vogel and then Bud, but you know, I don't Ishbia. He spent money. He was just misguided. And then he listened to good basketball people and the team that they feel that the season was like, okay, this makes sense. That's competitive.

It's like Vivek. The Dallas, it's just like Vivek. The Dallas situation with those people and whatever scheme that they have up their sleeve with that we want the casino and, you know,

know, we sanction Niko getting rid of our best, the antagonism towards a fan base. And then this fucking guy comes in to Portland and he's like, I'm not paying splitter. He coached this team to unprecedented outcome. They made the effing playoffs. And then, you know what? Oh, congratulations playoff team. I'm getting rid of two thirds of the infrastructure that we have here in a city that's a It's a captive audience, right? Like the only other pro, they have the women's team, the women's WNBA team.

Selling out. They have a soccer team. They have a soccer team. So, I mean, you know, like the trailblazers are tied to that community. And by the way, that community is subsidizing your fucking stadium, bro.

The state and the city approved, you know, $350 million of renovation. And he's going to come in and run the organization. Like, what to what end to what he's using his hockey strategy his NHL strategy he's trying it out

I don't know what he's doing I don't know I don't know I don't I don't understand why you spend this much money on a team and then you try to cut costs all over the place it's so weird to me what message are you sending to the fans that's the purpose of doing it here yeah it's not it's not a it's not a company

like go ahead and run it like a company you're asking people to pay their money the revenue isn't this is what the bulls did He's looking at what the bulls do, and it's like these dumbasses are paying for their tickets every year. Maybe I'll do that. I won't pay luxury tax. I'll save money all over the place.

I'll be profitable. It's very cynical. The built-in subsidy that comes from the national TV contract, they're all buoyed by it. The franchise is only going to move in one direction because, you know, these rights continue to go. And we'll see how what packages the NBA innovates itself into in terms of streamers on, you know, whatever the cup. these sets of games or whatever over the next 10 years. But the 80 billion, what is it now? 70 billion that's left, 65 billion that's left on this rights deal ensures a trajectory for the value. And he paid what he paid. They got a valuation out of it. He was a good soldier in

that respect, right? What was the valuation? Four and a half billion bucks. That's what he paid. I don't know if it was the valuation. Yeah. Set the floor. Right, exactly. But that's the problem. All these people are spending, they're spending kind of money, but if the team isn't profitable, then they have to zag the other way, which raises the question, why did you pay for the first place? Yeah, and setting them forward for the expansion teams that we'll see if they get the money or not. We have to go. We have to go. On that note, congrats on the most boring, boring PGA tournament we've had in a while, made up for it by Wembe. Great winner, Aaron Rye. Everybody's the people's champion. People's champion.

Great guy. There you go. House, you're the people's champion. Thanks for staying up with me. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back with CR, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dubundo. We're going to talk some soccer next. So I'll playoff as long.

I've been looking through the lines, the props, the futures, everything. Share my favorite picks from Fandale Sportsbook on my Twitter feed. I share a lot of times. A straight-up bet, parlay. I'll do some add-ons. And I'm looking at this game to OKC San Antonio. I think there was some really instructive lineup stuff that my guess is OKC is just going to have to go smaller.

And then conversely, San Antonio might have to play more guards as well. So I want to try to figure out the right kind of same gamer that steers towards some of the shorter players, shall we call them. So I will have a final pick on that before game two on my Twitter feed. Still debating who's going to win. I think every one of these games is going to be close. You look at game one. If Caruso doesn't hit, you know, 10 shots, he makes like six, seven threes.

If he doesn't have basically the shooting game of his life, I think San Antonio would win that game by 20. And that was with Castle turned the ball over 11 times, no Darren Fox. So I feel like all these games are close or San Antonio is going to win. So I'm probably leaning San Antonio plus the points. When I bet, I bet with Fando a brand I trust, it's easy to build my NBA bets on Fandil because I know I'm getting great odds, payouts on my parlias, boosts every day.

I'll get my winnings instantly. Fandel, play your game. From the pitch to the stands, to communities around the world. The beautiful game is coming to our beautiful country, uniting fans around a shared passion. Now you have the opportunity to hold this chapter of Canadian soccer history

in the palm of your hands. Score the FIFA World Cup 2026, $1 coin today. look forward in your change all right CR Chris Ryan is here Anthony Dubundo here as well you can hear him and listen to him

and watch him all the time on the ringer gambling show and this is his time because basketball and HLLayoffs tennis although we lost Alcarez for Wimbledon today Wimbledin

World Cups coming Champions League and then I just have so many soccer questions that I know nothing so I'm like I'm just going to bring two smart guys on the pod who follow soccer and they're going to tell me stuff. Let's start here. Tottenham might be out of the Premier League. I shouldn't be laughing. I had my second kid and I just, I fell off with them and I apologize. So they lost today. Explain the stakes to Bundow on Sunday. Walk us through everything

we have to look forward to. When is this game going to be on? What's going to happen? Can I wager on this? Walk us through it. So Tottenham are two points ahead of West Ham with one match to play. And all 20 teams play simultaneously on the final day, 11 a.m. Eastern, so 8 a.m. Pacific Sunday morning. A little coffee and football. Tottenham are at home against Everton, who have nothing to

play for, but I'm sure would love to play spoiler. West Ham host Leads, who also have nothing to play for. Tottenham just need a draw. If they draw, they will be safe. However, if they lose and West Ham wins, then Tottenham, one of the ten richest teams in the world, one of

the six richest teams in England, and one of the biggest clubs and historic clubs in the sport will be relegated to the second division, which as a Spurs fan myself is an existential crisis that I've never felt as a sports fan in my life. Our American teams have bad years, we're like, okay, we'll get them next year. This is not something I've ever experienced, so now I'm kind of terrified. So, C.R., what's the history of this? What's the worst example of this ever happening? Honestly, well, one of them is Leeds. So Leeds, like, who flew too close to the sun about, I I guess would that be back to 20 some years ago,

went down, and it took them forever to get back up into the Premier League and really have only fully stabilized themselves as a Premier League club in the last couple of seasons. The one silver lining to this that I would give to Bundow is that we have recent history with clubs like Aston Villa and Newcastle going down and then coming back up. Tottenham has too much money to fail ultimately. They'll lose some really good players.

It's going to be tough that they have essentially the Crown Jewel stadium or one of them in the entire country. And they're going to be hosting like really small clubs if they go down. But I don't think it's done deal yet. When I watched West Ham, the last West Ham match, I was like that club

looks like fully on its knees. But Tottenham really needed this one today and I think it's probably all the more painful that Chelsea beat them today. So this is as much drama as we could possibly get on a Sunday other than if the actual title was at stake. Yeah. It would

been cool if City had won today just for last day final stakes but yeah, Arsenal is now officially the Premier League champions as of today. Which is an even bigger buzzkill for us as Spurs fans. Your biggest rival could win the league and you could get relegated in the same year.

It's like the worst year imaginable for us. So Dubondo, what is the NFL NBA equivalent of this? Everything that's happening right now, would it be like if the Sixers were in danger of of getting relegated? Like how big of a team are there? I don't even think there is a comp.

I was thinking like the New York Giants, maybe. It's not the Cowboys, but like the Giants or the Chicago Bears. Just being out of the NFL for a year. It would be honestly a good one would be the Red Sox have to go to AAA baseball for the season while the Yankees are coronated as World Series champions. Oh my God. I can't even imagine. For Arsenal and Tottenham fans, that's what the rivalry is,

except it would be like if they were in the same city and they just hate it. each other. They were the same part of the same city. So from a bragging right standpoint, can you come back from this? No. Yeah. It would take multiple generations. I mean, look, Arsenal had a holiday that they used to call every year St. Totteringham's Day. They would celebrate it every year when they finished above Spurs. And for 20 straight years, they did.

And honestly, as a Spurs fan, the year we finally broke that, it shouldn't have mattered, but it really did. We finally were able to have a run of dominance. and for five or six years, Spurs were the best team in North London. That has dramatically flipped now the last three or four years where Arsenal's taken back control. But the odds of, you know, Tottenham haven't been relegated in this era of the Premier League. It hasn't happened to the club since the 70s, and then since the Premier League was founded in 92, they've never been relegated.

So this would be, yeah, about as bad as it gets. This is a huge deal. Like, like CR said, you don't know what the team looks like next year. They're not going to be able to recruit players. They're going to lose all their good players. If you're a good Tottenham player, why would you want to stay when you can go play for another better team. It creates a bit of a

snowball effect down the hill here that could happen for the club. I'm so fascinated in this and I wish I had gotten more fascinated sooner because I would have really enjoyed the I first remember midseason like, hey, they might get relegated. It's like there's no way. They've way too much money. But to be in that crazy stadium they have playing second league games, I don't even, I can't even,

it breaks my brain much like Wembe's 32.3 foot three broke my brain last night. You know, and it's not dissimilar from that where it's like a great reminder of why sports is just amazing to watch, where it's like, for a couple of years, it felt like maybe the gap was getting too wide between championship

and Premier League football, the money was getting too distorted, and you'd frequently have teams that came up and went right back down. And in some ways, some teams actually like modeled their success by like getting up for a season to get Premier League money, getting the parachute payments going back down,

that it was its own kind of money ball in a sense. Like there are clubs like Ipswich or West Brom who might even have said to like, oh, this is how like our model for our success. Tottenham's not supposed to happen at Tottenham. You know, like this is, Tottenham was a couple of years ago like knocking on the door of the top three, four in the country

and they built this enormous stadium and mortgaged a lot of their future on this stadium. And now they have to, you know, they're going to have to figure out a way to pay for it with like no wall coming to town. They've also financially built a team like around the club. Everything off the field about Tottenham is great.

The books look great. Everybody's happy with the business, the stadium, all that stuff. And it's come at the expense of they had the same guy running the team, Daniel Eby, who's been running the club for 25 years. He just departed. The club became so big to the point where

he wasn't doing a good enough job overseeing the actual soccer team, you know, the buying and the selling of the players. And they just let the transfer strategy completely rot. And they embraced a bad kind of analytics that got them into a lot of bets on a lot of players that didn't have upside that maybe they thought they did. And now they're left with a pretty rotting core of untalented young players. So is there a villain?

Like who are the Spurs fans? You know, they would probably point to, I think some Spurs fans would probably point to Thomas Frank, who managed the club at the beginning of this season and was a really heralded hiring. He had come over from Brentford. he played smart football, which was tactically astute, and he had Brentford was a really pretty small London club punching way above their weight, and I think people thought it was a pretty logical hire.

And it just went so disastrously and so poorly. And then, who was the manager in between Frank and Deservie? Yeah, Igor Tudor. That's right. They bring in this guy who's supposed to be basically an emergency room surgeon, and his expertise is to keep them up.

and he shows up and like I think he was gone what in like 19 days how long was he there right? It was less than Liz Trust I think it was like 40 something days yeah this is one of the first Liz Trust mentions on Bill's pod this is great and now they've got this guy

Roberto Deserbe who came over from he was coaching in France at Marseille and he plays like really electrifying football but it just might be too late and you know these guys are coming in it's like hiring a coach in any other league midseason it's like you're not practicing all the time. You've got games every like three days pretty much. And now it's, it's really just

all hands on deck. Sunday is going to be nuts for that. So is what are the stakes for the players on the team, right? Because if this happened to like, I don't know, the Chicago Bulls, Josh Giddy would care that he was down in the G league for a year and he would have no way of getting out of his contract. Can all these guys like get out of their deals? Like what happens? That's the thing. It's a little bit of a black box. You don't really know. Now, a lot of the lower ranked teams when they sign contracts with those teams, the players will get some kind of relegation clause. But, you know, when you're negotiating with Tottenham, are they still making sure to, you know, cross the T's and dot the eyes to make sure that there's claws in there? So we don't entirely know.

Yeah, it's not entirely public. Just how many players can leave. However, they do have still multiple world-class players. Christian Romero, who's going to start for Argentina this summer. Mickey Van deven. They're James Madison, who's been a Premier League champion in the past. There's plenty of players in this team that could go and play in other Premier League teams or other countries

and be very, very successful there. So those guys are going to want out and you can't just hold them hostage. So it's going to be very fascinating to see what happens this summer. They're also going to want to sell high on whatever. I mean, if you call it selling high because they're being relegated,

so their value on a player for player basis is probably lower than it's ever been. But they'll probably try and sell high to mitigate some of the financial losses they're going to experience. From having no fans for a year? Well, I... Then the money, the TV money.

There's something to be said for... There's history of teams going down and like it's almost like a cleanse. You know what I mean? Like we have to get all the bad blood out. Maybe we get some of these contracts out. Like we're going to immediately be these runaway

favorites to go wire to wire to wire to win the championship next year. I mean, Tottenham in the championship is insane. So I would assume that they will probably have a pretty glorious run in the championship where they kick ass all season and their fans, the ones you show up. I don't know if they'll be like a full capacity

Tottenham Stadium, but it'll be like fun. You know what I mean? It's just going to be weird because you're in the championship. It would be nice to win again, you know? Yeah. So this is Red Sox and then AAA. Yes. Basically.

But you did ask Bill, like who is it, fault here. Daniel Levy is the first name. Johann Long, who's the new sporting director, he's the second name. But this is not a one year issue, and I think that's the one other problem. They finished 17th last year. They had the most bizarre season where Ange Pasta Cagu

was their manager. They finished 17th. And they were never actually in danger of getting relegated. 18th is relegation because the gap was pretty big. But they barely won any games, the second half of the season. They put all their eggs into the Europa League, which is a secondary competition. They won that. They won their first

in 18 years, 17 years, last year. And then they had to make a decision on the manager. He just won you, your first trophy in 17 years. But you were awful. Most of the season, they fired him. And a lot of people had mixed opinions on that decision. He's probably looking down smiling at the moment at the fact that they might be relocated,

and it's pasta caglu. So for the people that don't know this that are listening, I wrote a whole giant column about trying to pick up Premier League team. I think in 2007, it was before my second kid was born. And I really tried to get into it for a couple years. I watched a lot of soccer and my daughter started playing. And I actually did follow it. And then I just couldn't keep up.

There was too much sports. There was too much parent stuff. It is funny, CR that I picked what seems to be the perfect team for me. I think I really would have enjoyed this Tottenham ride the last 20 years. I would be losing my mind right now if they're about to get relegated. Yeah, you should also maybe have chosen Liverpool in the first place so you could see where all of John Henry's money was going.

Yeah, that's true. So that was the runner-up, but I think they had had a little too much success when I was trying to figure it out. I wanted a team that, you know, they were going to rise up and exercise demons, all this stuff. Yeah, there's nothing like Rafi Devers getting traded and being able to text you. It would be like, thanks again. It didn't really work out, though. Liverpool just spent the most money they've ever spent on one player the same week that Raphael Devers was traded. Unbelievable.

That's why we all want them to sell. So West Ham, what is the NFL NBA equivalent to them? Like, mid-level? That's a good question. I think of them more like a Chicago Bulls. Like, they are historically really well-supported club. They, I don't even know if they've ever, they never really had a Jordan era,

although they have been great in the past historically. But they have moved into the London Olympic Stadium out of Upton Park, which is where they used to do. They moved into this giant cavern of a stadium. And it's been pretty bad for the last couple of seasons. I think they made some noise in the conference league to Bundow? I can't remember it. They won the conference league.

They won the conference league, which is here European competition. Below the NIT level tournament in Europe. But if they go down, it's actually equally catastrophic. I mean, their owners are embattled. They've got a lease on this stadium that their fans don't like going to. and they don't have nearly the talent pipeline. I don't think the Todd doesn't, you know. No.

They don't have the resources either. I mean, they're a mid-table financial club with more history than that. But you mentioned the stadium thing. I went to London Stadium last year. It is not a very exciting place to watch a game. They don't get great crowds. The noise is kind of just...

It's got a running track that separates the stands from the field. So it's just like... Oh, my God. I went to that stadium for the 2012 Olympics. I can't believe that that's where they play. Yeah. And Upton Park was like famously very loud and like a tough place to play and they just haven't had that. And they've done a similarly bad job with squad recruitment. Like they've recruited a lot of players that don't really fit together and then tried four different managers and none of them have worked. But since David Moyes left, it's been a steady decline. So this was the biggest Premier League story this year. Was there something else? I mean, Arsenal winning the title for the first time in 18 years. 22. 22 years is the big story. I think the reason why maybe people who are outside.

of the internal, like the Arsenal fandom, like I was funny, I was just recording wait a second with Concepcion, and he was saying that he was going to London soon, and I was like, oh, for the parade. He was like, what do you mean? I was like, Arsenal just clinched the title and he had like kind of a stroke when I told me that. But,

you know, for Arsenal fans, I think it's been incredibly rewarding. And I used to have a lot of affection for Arsenal as like a neutral kind of like I liked watching them play. But this season has been pretty it's kind of like what happened to the Thunder

where it was like they were everybody's darlings a couple years ago Are they flopping? No, but they've scored a quarter of their goals have come off of quarter kicks I have a comp

I have a comp and a lot of people in my community got mad at me for this they are the Eagles Oh they are the Eagles like the 2020

25? Yeah, they literally are essentially boring to watch they win with their elite defense and their goals this show year. The main difference between them and their main title contenders was that they mastered

the art of the set piece and they built what's called a meatball where they just like block the goalie out and then they send the ball in and they're bigger and taller than everybody else. So they just score all these headed goals of set pieces. And look, credit to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game. But they're not a fun team to watch. It's like when you watch Caruso and Dort like foul four times in a possession, it's like, well, you can only really call one foul. Right. So like, we'll just do it everywhere. Well, CR, you know, I'm a big set piece. I know, for real. I really feel like it's an underrated part of soccer.

The czar of the set piece? Listen, my daughter who's coming up later on this pod, we've spent 17 years of watching your own soccer teams. And as you get older, there are always these teams that's like the secret sauce. And they figure it out. And they get like one free kick goal, one corner kick hole, and they win two nothing.

And you're like, what just happened? We dominated possession the whole time. Anyway, I like the set piece. That's Arsenal. And that's honestly, it's creating a larger, question about the World Cup this summer too. How is that going to be officiated? Because the ball was in play less this year in the Premier League than it's ever been. Set piece goals were up.

It's not even just corners and free kicks now. Teams have guys. Brentford has a guy whose main job is that he can throw the ball over his head 40 yards. And like they just make sure to bring him in so that he can, you know, whatever side of the field they're on, he comes in and throws the ball 40 yards into the penalty area. And then they just scrum around. It's not the most exciting. When you think of beautiful game. You're not thinking of that. Yeah, I think for a lot of people watch the Premier League this year and we're like, eh, like there's something kind of missing here. And then we had

a Champions League semi-final between Bayern Munich and PSG that happened a couple weeks ago. Electric. It was like shooting like drugs right into your karate artery. It was like I was like, oh, this, I've missed this. This is what this sport's

supposed to be. This is so electric. And then you go back and watch guys who are just basically like fouling each other on set pieces on their way to a title. It's kind of a bummer. So Champions League, the final. Dubundo, did you make a pick yet? Yeah, it's funny. I think it's a toss-up,

and the betting odds have PSG as a favorite. This is the classic clash of styles. PSG have way better attackers, but when they played last year, Arsenal was right there. I think Arsenal's very live to win it. Again, it's not the sexy pick. Even Victor Wenbanyama weighed in. He was making fun of Arsenal's play style.

said of course PSG, of course he's French. But he was saying, you know, nobody wants Arsenal to win except for Arsenal fans. It does feel that way. As like the numbers nerd, though, I do think they're pretty even teams. CR, Premier League title and Champions League

in the span of a March, that's impressive. Yeah, it would be really like a really significant achievement for them. And for Arteta, the, Mikkel Arteta, the manager for Arsenal. The other big headline coming out of the Premier League season,

since you asked like that a couple minutes ago, is this, we found out is going to be the last season that Pep Guardiola manages Man City. So he's been there for, what is it? 13, 10 years, something like that? He's won an obscene amount of titles,

like in terms of Premier League titles, FA Cubs, Carabal Cups, over that time period. And it kind of marks the end of an era in the Premier League. Do we like Arsenal fans? I love many Arsenal fans. Jeff Chow's an Arsenal fan, right?

Ian Wright is an Arsenal legend. What type of personality? Yeah, what kind of personality type is an Arsenal fan? Are they the most popular fan base in America? I think there's a huge crossover between Arsenal and Knicks fans. Oh, that's enlightening. That makes sense. I feel that too.

Who is our least favorite fan base right now? Well, my answer is still going to be Arsenal. That's because my phone has been just off the hook. And what am I supposed to say? I mean, I picked them before the season. I told you guys it was going to happen. You can't throw it in my face. They still will, of course, as they should.

What about you, CR? Which are your least favorite fan base? I think as a Liverpool fan, Manchester United fans are my least favorite fan base. I remember when I was doing that exercise, I really was intrigued by Newcastle. But part of the exercise was I need to go, if I go overseas for a game, what would be a fun trip in Newcastle a lot? But I really liked how kind of tortured. There's a fair amount of speculation. So Newcastle and the intervening, intervening.

years they were heavily invested in by the Saudi PIF. And now people are speculating that something similar could happen to them that happened to live. Oh, yeah. Well, it won't be as catastrophic, probably, but they are looking for outside investment. It looks like they are trying to unwind their sports position. World Cup starting, what are we down to a month? Less weeks. Three weeks from Thursday.

Yeah. Dubondo, this is the greatest summer of your life? I'm very excited. But greatest sports year of my life. I was talking about this with Sheel a couple weeks ago. We just had the PGA at Erronomic. I was down there on Sunday. We've got All-Star game in Philly this year.

It's a great year for Philly. But then, yeah, the World Cup, the Winter Olympics were great. I'm not sure we'll have a better sports year. However, that could change on Sunday. If Tottenham gets relegated, I do not feel like this is the best sports year of my life. Do you have you checked any of the resellers to see what those World Cup? tickets are going for in Philly? Are they dropping? Are they dropping? They are now.

Okay. I mean, we didn't get the best slate. Have you looked at the Philly Slate? Yeah, it's not that great. It's not the sexiest slate. Ivory Coast Ecuador. That's going to be like the dark horse battle. But other than that, we got a pretty mediocre slate. Dubunda, you know about CR, right? World Cup Bigamist. Really? Really? Two separate lives. Like those lifetime movies where the person has the separate family in another house? What would be my Netflix title for you? World Cup Bigamist.

That would be it with a picture of you with like a jersey that has two different logos on it. That's right. So who did you root for on Black Friday in 2022? I don't, I can't recall. Did you give a nice little golf clap when it ended in a draw? Honestly, he's not going to say,

but he's like probably 6040 England. Honestly, you know what? It's not that hard to be 60% if you're rooting for a team that has a chance. I don't really like the USMNT, honestly. That's what he's talked himself into is I don't like how we're run.

I don't like our style and country. I don't like our youth program system. My father was English. I was introduced to the game through his perspective, through his lens. I always enjoyed like the drama around the England national team. I support it. You don't have to apologize to us. But when you're a sports big of miss, there's always a chance that two teams are going to play

and you're going to have some real reconciling to do. I don't think that would be this year because. I don't think that's going to be a problem. I don't, it doesn't seem like. I saw Rob Stone this weekend, actually, who's obviously having been. involved in the World Cup. And I was like pushing him to get me excited about the American team. And he tried.

I felt like he was going through the motions. And it just feels like even though everybody seems to agree, it's one of the more talented teams we've ever had. And we have all these good American soccer players. Nobody seems to think they're going to do that World and World Cup. So you agree with that, Dubundo? Well, I will say they got some bad news because their best centerback went off injured for Crystal Palace over the week.

So if he's out, they have no good centerbacks. They're already at a problem where they only have one. You need those. The second one is going to be a 38-year-old Tim Riem, who's looking a little old for MLS. And so the defense looks problematic. The goalie situation is the worst. It's been my lifetime,

and the defensive situation looks bad. However, the good news is their star attacker, Christian Pulisic. He has not scored yet in Syria in 2026. So he's doing great, too. A lot of excitement for Team USA at the time. the World Cup. Brutal. Who,

Ciar, who do you think is going to win? Do you have a pick yet? You know what? This is one of the hardest ones for me to pick in a long time

just because of, uh, the unique nature of like playing outdoors in America in the summer is going to, I think, sweat down some of the veteran teams, you know, so I think I am leaning,

France, but I don't, I don't really know. I mean, France is just so talented from like one to, Like, they could, a second team, France, could probably make it to the last four. You know? So, Dubondo, that's what I was looking at too, because I think Wembe's going to win the NBA title.

And I'm a big believer in the cluster theory. And him winning the title on American soil, followed by France, followed by all of us wondering how we let this happen with France. And we thought we got rid of them a bunch of times over the years. I made fun of France on a pot. I got a long email from somebody who's like, hey, we've been there for you for like seven wars. What the fuck? Lafayette. Like,

really bad. Did that all that for nothing. Sorry. But yeah, I do wonder if there's a cluster theory. Who do you like for the World Cup? I mean, if you just lined up the team, France is the most talented. Like, I don't even think it's debatable.

And by the way, if you're doing narratives too, Kielin Mbapé, talk about a guy who kind of needs a big World Cup. Yeah. Because PSG might win a second consecutive Champions League since he departed. Look, ultimate unique theory. And Real Madrid is exploding, like, on his watch right now. There are 40 million signatures from Madridistas to get him out at Real Madrid. They're not very happy with Kielion, even though he scores a lot of goals.

But, yeah, I mean, France is the most talented team. Spain, you know, Laminia Mall is their best player. He's not going to be healthy for the start of the tournament. He's got a leg injury that he probably won't be 100%. And you never know with those. I actually like C.R's England a lot. I like that they have a real manager who has tactical know-how this time, unlike Gara Southgate. But again, do I trust the English in the American summer to not wilt?

It's also just going to be like it's going to be quarterfinals, and it's a penalty shootout. And then it's just, it's, it's hard to like project out when you know that's looming. I think that there's a couple of interesting storylines going into the cup. One of them is Dubunder just alluded to that there's a couple really good managers working in this one. Obviously, Pocatino is managing the USMNT. He comes from, among other places, Tottenham. Carlo Ancelotti is managing the Brazilian national team

and I think this is his first time as international manager but he just wins shit a lot and I would keep an eye on Brazil even though they've got kind of a chaotic roster and Thomas Tuchel who's managing England is pretty tactically astute so there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in that department probably the most talented group of managers we've ever had at a World Cup like you don't often see a lot of the elite club guys

go do international and a lot of them are just like, yeah, I'll go take my shot at the World Cup. Why not? Any weirdness for England considering it'll be 250 years since we sent them the fuck out of here, CR, sent them packing? It'd be weird to come back on an anniversary or no. That never comes up. That's not going to come up at the pregame.

But if they play on July 4th, like they're definitely losing, right? Yeah, they'll be in the back of their head, you know, when we push them out to Bundow. Can you give us a Dark Horse, please? U.S. is 55 to 1 to win the World Cup. I would advise people not to wager on that. No, please do not bet that. Underdogs never win, actually win the World Cup. There's only eight countries that have ever won it.

Seven of them are in this tournament. Italy, I guess, would be my second country. They didn't quite make it once again. But Ecuador is going to be my team. I love this team. They were actually better than Brazil in World Cup qualifying. They have three or four guys who are mainstays on Champions League teams. 80 to one, Dubundo.

Yeah. I don't think they can. win it. But like, you know, they're in a group with Germany. I think they match up pretty well with them. Ivory Coast. Like, that's going to be a really fun, underrated group. And I think nobody's going to want to play them because they only gave up, I think it was five goals in 18 South American World Cup qualifying matches. So elite defensively, not a ton of goals there. So probably low ceiling, but I think they can make a run. They're not that different from what Morocco did a few years ago in terms of like having a handful of really good players and a good

system and a good defense. It would have been funny if the bundos like, you know, I'm looking at Sweden, really well-run country, really have liked everything, everything I've heard about those guys. I don't like the Swedes. As a dark course? Yeah, what do you got for a darkro? I love the Swedes as a people, but not as the soccer team this year.

You know, in Netherlands, what are they, plus 2000? I mean, that's interesting to me. They have a lot of really nice players. They tend to burn quick and then and then flamed. out like at crucial moments in tournaments, but they have like a really solid squad. So I think that's a nice one look at. I'm a little bit Eurocentric when it comes to the World Cup kind of favoritism, though. It's hard for me, you know, to see Argentina, for instance, at Plus 900, like getting back

into it here. So I, as it stands now, I'm looking at the Netherlands. So eight countries ever and one is not in. Yep. That's Italy. Three straight World Cups are Italians missed. I want to do it 30 for 30 about that Netherlands team in the 70s, and we never got it together.

Oh, the Johann Kroif? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the original Steve Nash sons of the 1970s, basically. And we were talking about that back at Greenland. I remember that. Yeah, we always circled that idea. We never got there. All right.

Well, Dubundo, good luck on Sunday. It sounds like you're going to, it sounds like you're okay. You just need a draw against a team that doesn't care if they win or lose, it sounds like. That's right. that West Ham could lose anyway. And they could be fine. Yeah. Odds are probably like six to one that we go down, five to one.

But it's high enough that I'm uncomfortable. All right. CR, I'm glad we're still getting along after Six or Celtics. I think this water into the bridge, brother. It just turned out badly for both of us. You know what? That's one of the things that was actually comforting about watching the Spurs last night. I was like, oh, you know what, this is a different sport.

Like, we had no fucking shot. Honestly. Play Kada against Wimbenyama? Yeah. I mean, not that we would even go to the finals anyway, but this happens right around now the last couple of NBA seasons. I'm like, oh, that's how far we are.

Forget it. Not even mad. Yeah, there's a speed thing, and you can really feel it with the perimeter guys, too. There was a speed thing going on. It's almost like watching two lightweight boxers or welterweight boxers,

and they're just flying. And they're like, oh, man. I was watching Caruso getting stronger as the game went on, And I was like, never mind. Yeah. See, I was wondering what was going on with them. Yeah.

Maybe you got some Paul George. I was like, this is nuts. Are they just going to leave him open all series? Is that the plan? I hope he misses. Well, that's the spurs on the flip side that I think they're going to let Fox and Harper just take threes now. I think you have to double Wemby, right? You can't.

You basically have to live and die with guys on the spurs hitting Premier threes would be my guess. Are you up or down for the playoffs Dubundo? I'm up, thanks to Jalen Duren. What a guy that's been great. You know, you hate to do a hate watch sometimes, but... What did you short him?

I bet under point three thousand assists in every game. Wow. Terry Rozier! We went six and one. He Terry Rozier. Yeah, I've been listening to some of that. And then I actually had Caruso over last night,

which might have been the easiest win in my life. Oh, my God. It was a lot of fun, yeah. I went big on Spurs' Nix after a round one. And have, I went on the Spurs this series. I have a lot of Spurs stuff. I just at some point, just at some point was like,

what are we doing here? These odds are out of whack. But now the odds are, now it's like they're dead even. It's minus 108 for Spurs or OKC. It couldn't be more even. You know, we're on the verge of NBA history, Bill. Which one?

Never before has the NBA Cup final then repeated. I know. You love this. The long story in the NBA. You made Sal love this. Sal is now excited about this. You're not. He's like the NBA cup.

We've never had a rematch. We could get a rematch if we get Spurs Knicks and the cup heads are very excited about it. We're very excited. It does feel like the biggest possible finals we could have. Like, Wembe against the New York Knicks is the best we can do, I think. Right. And probably the toughest, I would say, if it does happen, those tickets at MSG will be the single

hardest finals tickets probably ever. Do you see there's already a stub hub court side price for game one of the finals for the Knicks? Is it like 30,000? There was one listed for 100,000, which I think might have been overlisted. Somebody tweeted for 100,000, I got to be checking into the game. Well, the other thing, that's probably fair.

The other thing is Dolan controls all this stuff and isn't going to work with the league, and he's just going to be like, I've made promises to Bobby Bacola and Matthew Modine and all these other people that had been going forever. We always got to drag Modian through the mud here. He's been a great Nick's Liberty supporter.

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that Sixers game three, whether it was really M. Knight-Sharmelon who gave his tickets to Timothy Shal and they allow him to stick courtside in Philly. Oh, is that a rumor? It's a controversy. Would that be a, we'd have to ban him, right? Yeah, I mean, to the extent that he is the most notable courtside guy and, and I mean, that's disgusting if that's what he did.

That would really be horrible. CR, I'll see you on Friday because we're doing Animal House. This is the last comedy. This could be the last rewatchable as ever. Dubundo, I'll be watched and bring your gambling and say how to the crew for me. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having. Staples Preferred Business Membership, built for busy business owners,

because you've got bigger things to think about. With Staples Preferred, get free delivery. No minimums. Staples Preferred unlocks up to 3% back. plus 10% savings on print and exclusive wireless offers. One less thing on your plate. Actually, a lot less. Visit staples.ca slash preferred.

That was easy. All right, it's a family reading. My daughter is home briefly from school. She has to leave for an internship. Murph joining us for the first time ever. Is this his first on-time cameo? I think it might be his first podcast. We wanted to put a mic in front of this face, but...

We thought the mic would freak him out, but he's here. It looks like he's going to nap during this. He's just happy to be here. He's happy to be here. All right. So we used to call this for real Z's. We called the Team Patrol. Now you're 21.

You turned 21 two weeks ago. You're a young adult. I am. How does that make you feel? Are you feeling old? Terrible. Yeah. I'm sorry.

It feel awful. It was fun having drinks with you on your 21st birthday, though. Yeah. Watching you flash your ID to everybody. I'd like to stay at this age forever. Now that I'm here, I don't want to get any older. It's an exciting time for me, but probably. a daunting time for you and mom.

Do you want to say final thanks to all the fake ID people you were over the years? I will. I was Quinn. Thank you, Quinn, for your service. I was Zoe Simmons, but I lived in Bakersfield. Yeah. So I lived in Long Beach. I appreciate all my old homes.

Thank you, everyone, for your service. I told you, I was Bart Osmond for like two and a half years. I just can't believe that anyone would believe your name was Bart. And I was 5'10, and I would always crouch when I was. I was buying. So anyway, I'm glad you're 21. Welcome to adulthood. We're going to talk about Euphoria first, the most important show of your generation of the 2020s.

Went away for a while. The stars on the show became super famous, almost too famous to be in a TV show. Now the show is back and polarizing? Are people mad? What's the deal? Yeah, people aren't happy about what's going on with this season. I have a few issues with it. Well, first of which, it's the Cassie show,

which no one signed up for. At the beginning of Euphoria, it was all surrounded by Rue. Rue was the center, and then all of the exterior relationships were kind of side plots. But this season, it feels like Sidney and her boobs are the two main characters. And everyone else is just kind of doing their own thing. So there's been a lot of dialogue in our house about this, about why they chose to do this. And either she's making fun of the persona that people seem to think she is the last four years, or Sam Levinson, the creator and director,

he's making fun of her and she doesn't realize it. So where do you stand? I would like to believe that the first reason would be the correct one, but at the same time, Sidney and every single brand deal, every single internet thing that she's done has made me believe that she genuinely is that type of person. Like the American Eagle ad was a conversation

within all of my classes in college for months on end, far too long. People were triggered. There was some triggering. People were triggered. But like, I mean, it's, I just don't, I think she, that is who she is. And honestly, props to her for standing so true to her identity, I guess. But I think Sam Levinson is making fun of her.

The monstrous boob version of Sidney, destroying all of L.A. was kind of like, oh, maybe he's not on her side here. The Godzilla boobs? Godzilla boobs. She said it was like one of the highlights of her career to do that whole thing. I'm sure it was because her career, is within this area of her body. So, of course, she's going to be ecstatic

that her boobs were bigger than, like, the stadium or the staple center. Yeah. Like... So you didn't like the boxing movie is what you're telling me. I didn't. I didn't. I was pretty good.

I'm sure it was. I don't know. I have a problem with her why I can't get into her characters because she's just the same person in every show. Yeah. And euphoria to me feels the most authentic to her

and this season has reigned true to that. But she's the first biggest problem. Okay. My second biggest problem is that, Nate Jacobs has become, am I allowed to say the P word here? Sure. You say what you want. Nate Jacobs has become a major pussy. And he's, but he's, we have to remember that he beat up Maddie Perez in season one.

He single-handedly put his father in jail and uprooted his whole life. And he was the biggest bully at the school that they went to. And now he's getting bossed around by Sidney Soony and her big boobs. And these gangsters that are extorting him for money. Right. It's like, Nate, wouldn't you think that you should start carrying like a gun or maybe like a pocket knife or something to defend yourself? You're just going to keep getting limbs cut off without doing anything. I'll say you're 6'5 and you're a former quarterback.

You can't fight back against anybody. That's what I'm saying. I really, I dislike the fact that he has been completely emasculated in this season. And he's losing toes and fingers. I liked when Jacob Alorty was like this force in euphoria and he's no longer that. So that's a major problem. Okay. I'm also just not understanding where the season's going to go because we're six episodes in now.

And Rue has almost been murdered multiple times by the new person that she works for. Maddie's somehow getting involved in this entire stripper deal. And it's just Sidney Sweeney Boob. So it's like, where is the, where is everything going to come together? I'm not sure. And it's Rue making this face for pretty much 90% of the episodes. Yeah. She always looks like that.

That's a good job, dad. I don't like you looking at me like that. I'm scared. I don't like that. Yeah, but you have to say something too. She's like, come on, man. Come on. I don't know.

I feel like she's great actress, obviously. I feel like she's a little bit on autopilot this season. I mean, she has a lot of shit going on. Probably the biggest female movie star we have. And she's like, oh, fuck, I got to be on season three of this show. So I feel like if this was basketball, this would be like Jason Tatum in February, playing the nets and just kind of running up and down and shooting threes. I'm with you.

It seems like Sidney is the only one that's really like into it and she might need this. This was her starting place and maybe, I mean, she's huge. So I don't know if that's accurate. So how much content have you consumed about Sydney and Zendaya and not being in the same place and never filming the same? Because you pointed out in the wedding scene, you never actually saw them on screen together. They're never on screen together. And Zendaya just doesn't like her.

I mean, that's at least what I've read and I've heard through the media. Yeah, I don't, I just don't want to say things that might not be true. I don't think she likes her. Yeah. And more than that, I do respect the fact that she values herself as an actress to such a level where she's not going to, like, put herself in that position

to be in scenes with someone she dislikes. At the same time, it just, it fucks with the show. And there are multiple relationships on the show where people don't want to be on screen with one another, which is problematic. Well, and they got rid of the girls, faces of death. What's her name? Oh, Barbie Ferreira.

We kind of like that movie. We were all right with it. I thought it was good. She was definitely dialing it up. I like her a lot, but she also had her own problems with Sam Levinson. It just seems like it's been too much time, too much baggage, too much shit has happened. Honestly, I was surprised that this season is as compelling as it is because I thought it was going to be a total train wreck. Yeah. So I'm happy

to watch it. You know I'm not a tough audience. Like, I can watch anything and be like, that was enjoyable. I'm having a good time. I just want to know, like, some consistency of the plot line or where this is going. No, tell me lies for you. What do you mean? Like, not even close to tell me lies. How excited you were after that season.

No, because that, I mean, because we had a villain the whole time. This show, it's like our villain is so inconsistent, and I wanted Nate Jacobs to be the villain, because he's my favorite villain. Yeah. And now he's just, like, this fucking loser that's, like, hiding out in his house, waiting for more toes and fingers to be cut off. So. How many is he have?

10 fingers 10. He's down to like... 17 left that can get cut off. Yeah. It's like maybe Nate Jacobs pick up a pocket knife. That's all that I have to say. And you were happy with the Tommy Lai season finale, right?

Absolutely. I mean, it was great. Some people had some things to say. I honestly liked that Stephen won because I thought Lucy was a bigger loser than he is. So... Interesting. At least he had some ambition

and he was committed to the fact that he's an awful person. Lucy spent the whole season trying to convince everyone that she wasn't. Meanwhile, she is. So. And then you love JFK, a love story.

Oh my God. The best. Even though it kind of ended weekly. I hate to say this. I probably should have known more about what happened with them, but I really didn't know much. Yeah. So watching this show for me was like,

it was a lot to take in because I really didn't know much about what happened to him or her. But she's incredible. Did you know they died, right? I only knew that JFK died. I didn't know that Carolyn Bassett also died. So that was, I mean, I loved that show. I wish more shows like that would come out just about the ins and outs of like really popular relationships. You might like the OJ show.

Maybe we should watch that before you move. I mean, that was the left turn. No, that was the same kind of show where it was like real life, but really well done with good actors. I think she's great too. The lady that plays Carolyn Bessette. I can remember her name, but she'll be huge. She's gorgeous. I like her a Bassette.

Bessette? I think it's Bessette. Bessette. Carolyn Bessette. Sorry, Carolyn. You liked her, you thought that 90s style was back. Oh, yeah. The clothes.

Well, she's just classic. And I like that the internet's, like, dressing like Carolyn Bessette today. And it's like, no, like, you're just dressing like a chic, normal person. Like, but the internet just likes to ascribe labels and names of things that don't need them. But I do like that her style is coming back into the forefront

because she's great. And you like that roommate show on the movie, the Sandler's daughter? Awesome. I love everything that those two girls do. And obviously Sandler is like my, he's my peak. I just, I love him the most. Yeah.

That movie was great. I mean, as someone that's in college and you have roommates, and obviously my roommates have never, ever been like that person. But it's just interesting to see and to watch and be like, that was funny. And I understand what you mean and how you feel. The algorithm really understands you. Yeah.

So your MVP of 2006 is Lord. Yes. Who you just saw in concert last week and you said it was the greatest night of your life. She's just, I don't have many musical artists that I feel that way for. With her, it's like time stops. Like, I get really weird about Lord. I love, love, love her. Is that a polarizing opinion or do most people feel the way?

No, I think that people, because she's been labeled like cringe at times or her music is like too old or outdated because we all listened to it when I was 10. Remember Royals? What's cringy though, though? Oh, Royals? Yeah, but just because she's been around for such a long time, people have problems with people who have remained successful that long. And also, like, she's had some moments at concerts where she's, like, shush the crowd and done some

things. But she just, like, really feels things. And the internet doesn't get that sometimes. I think that people that listen to her music feel the same way that I do. And you like the Maggie, what's her face too, right? Maggie Rogers. Maggie Rogers. Oh, yeah. She's great, too. Me and Mom have loved her for forever. But Lord is everything to me. And her concert was impeccable. There's just not a miss in any of her songs. Even if you don't know. know her music. It's just like every song has a beat. Every song is cool. And she is like a

polarized, like the way that she dances, just her as a figure. Like she's just, she's awesome. What's her demo? I'd say people my age. So everyone in the crowd was like around. Yeah, around. I mean, at least in the, we were in the pit. And that was like all the people that are dancing. But I think Lord is for everyone. Like Mom loves Lord. I think people who like music like Lord because she's a great lyricist. And like with the way that she writes and the things that she's says, like, they really relate to people. Who else do you like these days? Who are you listening to?

Well, I'm still a big camp fan. I know you have your mixed feelings. I'm not against that. You and mom just need to get a room with camp. Yeah, we'll get a room and go to camp. And Mumford and Sons is the other one. I mean, that concert last summer was probably one of the best I've ever seen. I'm going to see them again this summer.

You'll see them at Fenway. Absolutely. Like, they, he is, Marcus Mumford is incredible. It just brings me a lot of joy to see artists. who are sticking true to who they are and don't have to do all the theatrics in order to perform and can just let their voices be the thing.

I also like Sabrina Carpenter now, though, which kind of goes against that. Yeah, that was an interesting turn for you. Yeah. You didn't like her for a while. I really like her music now. But it's also because I think I'm in a more fun part of my life. Yeah.

And I love to go out with my friends and dance, and her music is dancing music. So now it's a little more relatable to me. And also when you're happy, I feel like you like happy music and her music is happy music. Sabrina Carpenter, Good Hang or Bad Hang, do you think?

I think she's probably great. She's definitely great. She's been media trained. She's been on Disney Channel since she was 10 years old. At that point, you can't not be great. She's great, I'm telling you. Chaparone, Tough Hang?

I don't even want to speak on her. She doesn't deserve her here. Speaking of Tough Hanks. Oh, God. Alex versus Alex Happen. That was another thing you were fascinated by, Alex Earl versus Alex Cooper. And you were listening to Call Her Daddy

back when it was pretty raunchy. Yeah. And then you stopped at some point. Back when Alex Cooper, like, when her pod was good. Yeah. I don't, it's safe to say I have my side and it's with Alex Earl. Stay true to Alex Earl. Yeah.

I think this argument is so ridiculous. Well, can you give us the backstory? Because I guarantee 99% of my audience doesn't know what this is. I know. It's not exactly. Here's what I know. Alex Cooper. first she has her her

partner Sophia who she somehow cut out and got the pod herself grew the pod came to Spotify became a much bigger pod went to Sirius did like some really strange documentary that your grandfather stormed out of the room for when we tried to watch like literally left

he doesn't storm out of most things either I've never seen him storm out of room before he's like I don't like this person I'm out of here but anyway she she builds this little little I guess little media empire Alex Earl is her first big hit, but they have some sort of falling out, which to me from afar knowing nothing. Well, I can fill you in. Yeah, tell us. So, um, I'm assuming from what I've read,

Alex Cooper gave Alex Earle a non-compete, um, contract where she wasn't allowed to, obviously non-compete contract means you can't do anything that would be competitive with Alex Cooper's brand. Yeah. And then Alex Earl comes out with sit margs, which is obviously a hit because it's a low-calorie tequila drink and all of Alex Earle's fans are like, little girls that just like, I mean, not little girls, girls that would like to drink that. And Alex Cooper came out with that unwell hydration drink, which, I mean, I've never tried it. I have heard good things, so I won't give shit to that. But I think that was where the problem kind of started to arise where Alex Cooper was like, hey, fuck you, I told you not to do anything

that's going to compete with my stuff. But even before that, Alex Earle's podcast was on Alex Cooper's on Well, that's on Well, that's telling you. I think that kind of, Oh, you think the drinks thing? I think Alex Cooper is a mean girl is what I've gotten from the internet. And I think she's insecure in a sense. So she had somebody that was on her podcast network who was starting into a clips. Yeah. Like, and in a more authentic way, because Alex Cooper was cool and people liked her because

of the stories that she would tell. Yeah. Which without a doubt are super raunchy and like intense. and people's feelings are at expense of her stories, but they're interesting. And Alex Earle is kind of like a more authentic, cool, relatable, older sister type who people just like in a way that's, like, more connected than people like Alex Cooper. Yeah, because you'll watch her, she does stuff like she's just doing her makeup, getting ready to go somewhere.

And it's the whole process of hanging out with her as she does that. She feels like a friend. And like Alex Cooper couldn't do that because she's not likable to most people because she's known to be mean. Yeah. So I think that was... But she obviously is like, well, to some degree

because she is a pretty big audience. I was a part of that audience at some point until all of this... People on the internet are calling her a vulture, I guess, which is, I mean, I have nothing to say on that, but people are saying, and part of the problem is that

Alex Cooper will come to you and you've had some terrible traumatic life event and will be the first person to kind of pick at your body and be like, let's talk about this. I didn't say that. That's what the internet's saying. Yeah.

But that's kind of like a part of the thing. So then anyway, Alex Cooper comes out with this video adding Alex Earle being like, Alex, I've seen you reposting all of this stuff. Like, just come out and say it. We were all like, holy shit. But it also felt like a skit. It was like the most, the weirdest like video ever. I mean, you think that she has such a big team where they'd be like maybe make this sound a little bit more,

whatever. Did you feel like at all that in wrestling, we would call this a work? 100%. They were trying to do this to both elevate each other. Yeah. But then it's weeks and weeks and Alex Earle hasn't responded or addressed anything.

She went on a talk show and they asked her about it and she was like, I didn't prepare for this. I don't want any negativity, whatever, blah, blah, like did not even give it a second of time. Which leads me to believe that like obviously they had a falling out, but people thought it might be a PR stunt, like something else might be going on. but clearly something deeper rooted has happened

and Alex Cooper is more willing to like blow things up and kind of be immature and then Alex Earle wasn't wanting to feed into it. It's a whole debacle. But my stance is I'm on Alex Earle's side and I think Alex Cooper's being a little immature. What are Alex Earls? What are her next five years look like?

Well, she just launched a skincare brand called Real Activs, which people had interesting feedback for because most people thought she should have come out with a bikini brand or something that felt more like authentic to her audience. And a skincare brand is cool. Or like lingerie, like Sidney's sweet. She's too cool for that.

Sydney Sweeney can stay in her lane. She can do that. Alex Earl, like she, there were opportunities. She chose skincare, which is, I mean, sure. So that seems like it's going well. I've seen posts about it. People seem to like it. I haven't purchased it myself and I don't think I will, but good for her.

So your lane would have been core power yoga. Something. You know, like something that would have prompted people to purchase it more. I don't know. I think skincare is a tough, whatever. It seems like she's doing well. And then she has sit-marked. So she's successful.

She seems like she's doing well. All right. Just so people don't think you're catty. Two people you really like. Did I sound catty in that? No, not at all. I apologize. Not at all.

But you really like Kylie and Kendall. I do. I really do. We need to, told this to me, I was surprised because I felt like the Kardashians. They get a tough rep. They do. That's for sure. I wouldn't say it's, you know, completely undeserved.

Yeah, sure. At the same time, I'm like a huge Kylie stand. I'm still unclear on how I feel about Kendall because she has taken my husband. So I'm going to need a minute to think on that one. I'm not even ready to talk about that yet. How long have they been together, Kendall and Jacob Lord? They went to Hawaii last week. I almost threw my phone out the window.

whatever. Kylie's great. She just really is. I love her. But what's great about her? Tell her why you tell me why you like her. I think she's a super authentically kind person. And obviously people might be like, what are you saying? She's one of the biggest stars and like how could she be an authentically kind person? But in every single interview, in every single fan interaction, everything that I've seen of her, she's just like a nice, cool, normal down-to-earth person in light of everything that has happened to her. Like she's been in front of a camera since what? She was like eight years old. Right.

And the fact that she's like a normal, cool, kind person that's liked by most of the people that she meets. Like that is, that says a lot to me because people aren't like that these days. What was the thing you were telling me about when she had a kid and she gained weight and she was like actually talking about it? She went on Jake Shane's podcast last week, which is where this like real love ignited for me. Because I just, I loved her personality. I was like I'd be friends with this person in a heartbeat. Like, she seems great. Don't have a heart attack over that one.

You'd be friends with whoever you want. You tend to overrate all Jake Shane appearances, though. But she was talking about how when she had her daughter Stormy, she was in the best shape of her life. And then she got pregnant and was eating pints of ice cream every single night and bagels and all sorts of things. And by the time she was giving birth to her daughter, she was 200 pounds.

And didn't even like flinch in saying, And I just think in this day and age, especially with how skeletal people in Hollywood have become and like the GLP1 and everyone's just so, so skinny, for someone to admit that they were 200 pounds, someone as much of a force as Kylie Jenner is and she's constantly talked about for her looks and everything. Yeah. I mean, I thought that that was pretty a cool thing to do. So I'm big in on her. In the rundown, you sent me the things you wanted to talk about, you wrote Kylie and Kendall have single-handly. taken down the twin towers, Jacob and Timmy. Well, that is my only problem with them.

And they just went to Hawaii. Yeah. Well, Kendall and Jacob went to Hawaii, and then they got caught on a double date, and there's some awesome paparazzi pictures of them in a car, like covering their faces. I think Kendall and Jacob are a great couple, and will probably have beautiful children,

if that's the route that it's going for. I do think that they're too big on their own to be able to be together in a way that could ever, be normal, but I could be wrong. You know my theory about this. I've talked about this forever. I haven't. Two celebrities, when they date, two famous people,

they have to stay in the same level and the moment one passes the other. They have to break up. Yeah, I don't know. It's got to be like this. It can't start doing this. I don't think that the last, it's a fun moment, though.

And my prayers go to Olivia Jade, because that's a tough one. That was the before Jacob's Lerdy one? Jacob's ex, who was on and off for like seven years. That's the one who was the Lori Laughan's daughter? I love her too. You like her?

I love her. I love her. I watch all of her videos. Why do you like her? She's super cool and normal. Her videos, she doesn't really let her personality shine. It's just kind of like aesthetics, getting ready. But she's super cute and that's great style.

I just, I like watching her stuff and her outfits and things. What's the TikTok Instagram attention span? Like what's happening in 2026? What's different in the last six years? In terms of people being able to, what do you mean when you do that? Are there any trends? Are people starting to realize maybe I shouldn't be on my phone this much?

What's happening? I mean, people will say that, but will that ever happen? Like, no. I think TikTok is just as big, if not bigger than it was before, especially because there's now the shop, which is incredibly annoying to me,

but a good move on their part. You know about the TikTok shop. Do you buy stuff? Yeah. Like the fact that there's consumer things now, too, it just drags even more people in. Okay. Instagram, at least for me, is just becoming a place to post.

It's not really a place that I, like, frequently scroll on. Instagram reels are great, but they're not as... I don't, like, get as much into a trance as I do with TikToks. Do you still go on people's posts when they post pictures of themselves and go gorge? I really don't anymore. No, I don't do gorge your hearts. I'll only really... So pretty!

I'll only really comment on, like, my best friend's posts. Yeah. You phase out of it, you know? I'd like to get off of Snapchat at some point soon, but it's my main form of communication with my boyfriend and other people. Snapchat's still kicking. I don't judge me for that.

What? That's people judge for using Snapchat, especially in relationships, but I just like to see the face. I like to see someone else's face. Well, your generation has this whole thing when you just take pictures of where you are and send them to each other.

Yeah, like be real and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is how it is. I would rather, I just want to see photos. I think texting all the time is boring. Anyway, what social media device do you think Murph would use? He needs a lobotomy or something. I don't know what's going on with him. He really has chilled

out. It's impressive. He's old. He's almost six years old. Don't say that. He's not old. If he was human, he'd be like 40. He's a baby. He still doesn't like other dogs. Yeah. All right. Other stuff, you you deep dove the pit. I did. Great show. Which last time you did a hospital drama that you binged was grazed and out of during COVID and your personality changed. It put me into a place. Yeah, you were like in a dark spot for like three months. Well, you'll be happy to hear I did rewatch Grey's Anatomy this last semester.

That was my show with Hank. The entire show? It's like 18 seasons. No, no, no. We only got through like three seasons, I think. Yeah. He hasn't even seen George die yet. So hopefully he's not listening to this.

Okay. Yeah. He's definitely listening to this. And then we switched over to the pit halfway through watching Grey's Anatomy. And it was like, I can't ever watch Grace's Nighty. anatomy again. The pits just, yeah. The pits spoils everything. Yeah. I mean, what an amazing show. I hate to say it. My attention span is short, especially when it comes to watching television. My attention span in regular life is fine. But when I'm watching TV, I need to be stimulated by something

else, which is something I'm trying to work on. Yeah, like even yesterday watching the Wemby game. We were watching a movie and I had my phone. No, we watched the Wemby game and it was like one of the most important basketball games of this century. I did that despite you because you kept punching my phone and pissing me off. Well, I was just like, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. He doesn't touch. He's like, he swats.

He swats. You're just trying to rage bait me and I don't like it. So I was trying to make you angry back. Anyway, the pit is phenomenal. But my point to that was that I didn't pick up my phone once at any point watching that show. You're locked in. Because it moves so quickly.

I wish we had more TV shows that were so fast paste like that. And just like, I don't know, the way that it was film was just special. So. You never left the hospital. There wasn't really any music. There's never a moment of calm. And like that, I mean, maybe that's a problem that that's the only reason why I wouldn't pick up my phone. But like, I think TV has gotten boring and there's too many pauses and things. And this show was just like perfect. That led to one of mom's best quotes when she said how she wished she'd been smarter because she would been a great doctor. She would have been a great trauma doctor. She's not afraid of any sort of terrible situation. She doesn't get grossed out by blood. Her one problem is she panics. She's a panicker.

I don't know if she's a loud panicker though. She's a loud panicker though. She's like, oh, what happened? And it's like you have, oh, back off. Sorry, Murph. Wow, you just jostled by the fire of his nap. Yeah. But the pit is great. Anyone get canceled this year? I mean, everyone gets canceled. But currently it's James Charles. Which makes me sad because I actually was telling all my friends that I'm in on him. And I was like, in spite of everything he's done, because a lot of people have done terrible things. And I acknowledge that he's a pretty, he's not a great person. Hasn't even canceled multiple times?

He's done some weird shit. He's not a good person. Regardless, I started to like him again because I thought he was funny. Like, I just saw a lot of clips of him just, he doesn't care. He's just becoming one of those people where just he'd say whatever he wanted. And it was like, that's funny because why would you do that? whatever. But he has just gotten canceled again. So there's no new person this year? There's no rookie the year. Come up. Well, I'm a big Stossie Schroeder fan back to the, or no, sorry, Stossie

Baby, not Stossie Schroeder. I'm sure she's great too. Stossie Baby. Kylie Jenner's best friend. She's my favorite right now. Kylie Jenner's best friend? Yes, that's what I'm saying. She's an influencer. But they've been best friends since Kylie was a little kid and they were on Kardashians together. And then it's kind of like the internet grew up with her. She's great. I love her. So what does she bring to the table? She just does makeup and is, she goes out all the time.

This is brain rot. She goes out all the time. And I love watching her get ready. And then she films her night out with her friends. And it's just like, this is so fun to watch. Because there's nothing more fun than that. So. The drama was another one you liked.

Yeah. The movie. Back to Zendaya. That movie was great. I thought it was great. Anything else? Any horror movie this year? I'm excited for the backrooms. That will be really fun to watch.

And it's also just incredible that a 20-year-old is the person who produced it and created it. That makes me want to see it even more. But the idea about the backrooms has been something that has fascinated me for forever. So I'm excited to see it. I've been pointing that out to you a lot about these people when they're in your age range. How just weird it is to me that somebody who's 20 is making a movie and when B is 22 is a year older than you. Right.

And a foot and a half taller. It makes you feel bad about yourself. No, not just like. No, it does. No, but sometimes people peak early. You're doing great. Well, I mean, Taylor Swift and she was a 17 year old or 16, probably younger than that, like came out of the debut album.

It's like this, I'm the age. But she's a generational musician. I know, but I'm just saying it's, it's, it's weird getting older because the people around you are only getting over. Thanks. I know. Two jobs this summer. Yeah.

It's impressive. It'll be cool. I'm a core power yoga sculpt instructor, if anyone. one's in Boston when it comes to my classes. Great. What's Taylor Swift's next two years look like? You know, I really like her music. I'm sure she's happy.

I can't say that I like her as a person right now. Because she's seemed, she's aged out of your extended demo. It's not that at all. I like people who are older. I don't care for that. It's the fact that she kind of will create a posse and have a lot of people around her. and then drops them like fives.

And I get you're a famous person and you have to do that sometimes because if people cross you, then you can't have them around because, I mean, she's in a tough position. At the same time, like, I don't love that. That doesn't, I don't know. I can't judge because I'm from afar.

But I think it's also her fandom that gives me problems because I don't want to be lumped in with the real, like, crazies. Yeah. But I do like her music a lot. So I think she'll, she's going to get married. I don't know where, probably in Rhode Island.

That'll be cool. Paperview? Pay-per-view. Yeah, pay-per-view. $100 to do it like a boxing UFC event. There's no way that she would do that. $75 wedding. There's no way that she would do that.

I'm sure she'll be pregnant soon. She'll have ginormous babies with Travis Kelsey. It'll be great. She's like 5'11. She's also like a great athlete probably. She's a great dancer, so I'm going to assume. All right. Has it field turned in 21?

You know, I have no, nothing's holding me back anymore. It's a nice feeling. I didn't like being Quinn and going up to the to the bartender, allegedly. And for them, for me to be like, ooh, I don't know if like this is going to work out for me. And now my life has just opened up.

Am I allowed to tell them the story about you? No. Why not? Which story? No, there are no stories about me on my own podcast. I'll just edit it out. Okay. You don't get it.

We had a really fun night, though. We did. The best time ever. I think that was one of my favorite. favorite days ever. It was. Except the Celtics lost. Yeah.

That, if they had one, it would have been the cherry on top. But to see you take about four phantosh shots, which there exactly how they sound. And one was dyed green. Yeah. That was great. And then I enjoyed, I enjoyed you having your transfusions, which every time I looked away and that I turned back. Somehow you had another one in your hand.

I don't know how it was happening. I was nervous because the Celtics were in a game seven. I know. I figured they were probably going to lose. You were trying to loosen up. Nervous drinking. Puss you turned 21 and it was freaking me out. It was a big day.

And we had a big night the night before too. Mom really had a home run. Ben even had a home run. And then, yeah, it was great. We did. Yeah, it was weird because I, because 11 years before you were 21st. I remember we went ziplining in Catalina.

And that seems like it was like five minutes ago. Yeah. But like that goes slower for you. It goes faster for me. I don't, well, yeah, obviously it goes faster for you. But it feels like these last few years have really sped by. Like I feel like Ben just had a senior prom the other day, which we went to. And it like, it made me sad because it's like Ben just entered high school.

It feels like I feel like I just had my senior prom. And all of a sudden it's like Ben is going to college. And you have one more soccer year left, started at age four. This is like year 17. Yeah. I won't give up on it, though. I'm going to do something with soccer. I can't let it go.

I'm excited for your last year. Yeah. But it's... It's all I have because the Celtics are in shambles. The Patriots are coaches in shambles. Oh, my God. Jalen Brown to end it off. We have to talk about it.

Oh, yeah. You went to a lot of Celtic games this year. Well, I'm a devoted fan. You were like a legitimate fan this year. I kind of unfortunately was lucky because Popadok wasn't able to make most of the games. So I got a lot of tickets. Yeah.

I've really become... And you're dating somebody who loves... Basketball. Yeah. But I've really become attached to this team, mostly Jason. But if Jalen... Well, your guy, Kada was... That was very vindicated for you.

I've been rooting for two and a half years. Even before he could... He looked like Bambi on Ice for like a season. Yeah. He couldn't, like, he was not together. So did you study the Tatum, Jalen body length? when Tatum came back and how they interacted? You kind of started to tell me about it,

and it's just not something I ever would have wanted to look for because why would I want them to be rooting against each other? Yeah. It's totally there. Like, they totally do not get along in a sense. Well, they don't not get along. It's just they don't seem buddy, buddy either. They seem like coworkers.

Yeah. I'm not positive. Jalen was rooting for Tatum to come back and be great. Yeah. It feels like, I mean, as an athlete and as a soccer player, it's like she, he had his, like, there was a moment and a real opportunity in time where he was the leader and like going to be the savior of the team. Yeah. And he was great. Like he really was.

He stepped up to the plate. And then Tatum comes back and everyone's like, oh, thank God. Like Tatum's back. Now you have a chance. And I can understand how you might have a chip on your shoulder if that's the reaction of the fandom. It's like with Murph in our house when. When Willie comes. Yeah.

because we gave Willie gets attention. Willie to your grandmother after your grandfather died and Willie hangs out with her but when he comes back to the house Murfax's like Jaylon Brown. Yeah.

He's like I've been running this shit and you are gone. The offense moves for me, motherfucker. You're coming back into my territory. I'll be the one that goes to the backyard first. You will follow me. But it makes me sad.

I'm going to try and dribble through all five players on the court and you're not getting the ball. Stand over there. Put your hand up. It makes me dad. And if Jalen leaves, I mean, I don't know what to make of that.

I hope they stay together and maybe they will if there's not a good enough trade. But I do really have the feeling he wants his own thing, though. Because they won the title. If they hadn't won the title, that would be different, right? But they already won the title. And now he's like, kind of really like to have my own team. I get it. Are there any prospects for who can come in and save us? Because I'd like that. Now, they'll be able to get some good guys. Plus, I don't know how many more years

until Deuce is the backup center 10? Duce is like five feet tall now. He's huge. I always see him in warm-ups and he's like doing his thing. Yeah. That would make me sad though. Jaylen always has like a little handshake with him before the game. Like that'd be a bummer. That's the thing.

It's so rare to stay together for that long. Like even Clay Thompson and Steph Curry eventually broke up because Clay Thompson, they didn't want to keep him. To stay together. for your entire careers is like the rarest thing you could do. Which makes me think it won't happen. Yeah. And also for them to be working in tandem for so long.

It's understandable how he might want his own thing. Well, you like tall guys. Wemby's probably too tall for you, though. He's too tall. Seven-seven's probably too big. I've gotten more mature. I don't need them to be ginormous anymore. Like a lordy size?

That'd be great. And he's Australian. Hopefully, Hank is he's a walkie. Is Australian? That's a bonus? I love Australia. I've been telling you forever I'd like to go there. But just people from other places are like an accent's a cool thing.

It's very similar to Boston. That's why you like it. Yeah, is it? Yeah. Really fun, rambunctious people with weird accents. People are happy there. And they're happy because it's sunny and they're all beautiful all the time. And it's like, why would that not be a place where you want to go?

Marco Robbie's also from there. Maybe you have to go there after college. I'd like to. Maybe take a visit. All right, Zoe Simmons. Congratulations on Turning 21. You've been coming on my business. podcast since I was at ESPN when you sang Christmas songs.

Oh, I remember that. That was like early 2000s. Yeah, quite a run for you. It's been a long time. Merv's first appearance. I was about to say, does MIRF have any final words? I wish I could move the mic towards him. Merv? Murf. How many did you say? Nothing. It's given in the sniff.

Can't speak. All right. Thanks, Zoe. Thanks, Dad. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to Dabundo and CR. Thanks to my daughter. Thanks to Murph Simmons. thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. And don't forget to watch Animal House before we do rewatchables about it next Monday.

I'm going to be back on this feed. We're going to be live on Netflix after Game 2, Nix, Caves. It's going to be me and Mahoney, and we're going to be talking about that game. And I'll have a whole bunch of other stuff for that podcast as well, including some special survivor content. So stay tuned for that. I will see you on Thursday.

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