The Bill Simmons Podcast - An NBA Scandal, the WembyCorn, a Three-Day Power Poll, and NFL Week 8 Picks With Joe House

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to react to the NBA gambling scandal before having an early NBA power poll (3:24). Finally, they make their Ringer 107 picks for Week 8 of the NFL season (01:07:06). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Joe House Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by Fandul Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network where I will have a new rewatchable for you at some point early next week. I think it's going to be Monday night, but we have to do a horror movie. And we've done Halloween one and we've done Halloween four, but we have not done Halloween too. And especially now that I'm in the new studio with, can you see, can you see the mark? There he is right there, Sam.

Michael Myers, my guy. We're going to do Halloween, too. So that's going to be the next rewatchables. Now I just screwed up my camera. And you can find that wherever you get your, wherever you get your rewatchables, preferably on Spotify, on video. So there you go.

We have, so I was going to do the top of the podcast and talk about Chargers, Vikings, and then the Warriors Nuggets game. And then the Chargers decided to kill the Vikings. So I was going to watch the second half and then have some notes, but it was just the classic Thursday night stinker. And it all kind of flipped in the beginning when Herbert seemed like he threw a pick six. And then they called it back because it said the ball kind of moved on the ground.

The Chargers drove down and then that was it. So the Chargers beating the Vikings. And I guess we wanted to talk about that other than the fact that the Vikings do not look like a playoff team this year. And J.J. McCarthy, the mystery continues. So that, and then Denver and the Warriors, we had the whole year to talk about that. So we're diving right into this so we can get the podcast up faster. Joe House is coming on.

We're going to talk about the NBA gambling scandal. I think scandal's the right word here. I'm going to do a very brief blink test NBA power pole for House because I watched a ton of basketball over the last couple days. And then last but not least, we're going to do Ringer 107 and try to find five games in a depleted schedule because we have six teams on a Bible. We found five that we liked. This is a very fun podcast.

I'm just telling you now. We just recorded it. And then I went a time machine to the beginning of this for this intro you're about to watch. I'm going to take a break, Pearl Jam, and then House. This is the Bill Simmons podcast presented by Fandul. If you're betting on the NFL, come on. Fandle is the place to do it.

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Gam, call Winnihundred Gambor. Or visit RG-Helf.com. Call 88879-777 or visit ccpg. org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, we're taking this part of the podcast. This is the first time I've ever done this house. In the new studio, I have the Chargers Vikings game on. And I'm going to try to concentrate on you and not look to see what's happening. But there's a lot of stuff going on right now.

Football. Football is going on. Football, basketball. The World Series is about to start. Did you pick a team to root four in the World Series or is just staying away? I picked a bet. I picked a few bets. I bet the Dodgers to win four games to one plus 380 on the Fandual Sportsbook.

I bet Show Hey, Otani to win. MVP at plus 165. Do they every square bet? I love when you go square. But Otani MVP at plus odds. Like, I got to have a taste of that, right? All right, here's the agenda. We're going to talk about, we're going to talk about all the gambling stuff that happened

this week. We're going to talk about an NBA power pole and me watching basically two straight days of games. And I have a lot of thoughts. And then we're going to do Ringer 107 NFL. So the gambling thing broke today. And it was, it was a massive. massive story. And I was debating about, like, do we want to do anything on the pot about it or wait

until to see more facts and things like. But this, this passed the test of so many people in my life asking me, yo, what do you think? What is it? And I just feel like we have to do something about it. I just want to tell you the highlight, though, my mom texted me right in the middle as I'm getting like a million texts. I hope you and Sal aren't involved in this NBA betting scheme, exclamation point I can't tell if she was serious or that I'm going to have a hard time I did have a lot of people in my life say you like they as a joke

you know how are you one one degree removed is this three degrees removed how far removed you know one degree of separation so here's the thing and this is going to sound like I'm making a defense of the gambling universe which as you know I love you love of we've been in it for this entire century, basically. I think with the way the legalized gambling happened in all the states, it's going to be rocky here in a couple different ways as we sort through this decade with what you can and can't do, right?

The good side is that the best books, they can monitor all this shit. If anything nefarious is going on, they're going to sniff it out. And that's what's happened over and over again with all this stuff. They always sniff it out anytime there's a regular stuff. So in a weird way, it's being policed, I think, better than it's ever been. Where we have an issue, and this is what I thought happened, especially with the Damon Jones thing, that was the most interesting part of this whole thing to be. Damon Jones, who's obviously friends with LeBron James, he finds out LeBron's not playing in a Milwaukee Bucks game and tells, allegedly, tell somebody he knows, hey,

you know, LeBron's not playing. Like, don't forget about me. He's like, D. Jones has to eat, whatever he said. And this is an issue,

I think the NBA and NFL specifically have baseball too, obviously, where they can get intel that somebody's not playing or somebody's hurt and they can get that intel ahead of time

and quickly make smaller scale bets. But it's the players controlling information that's coming from them where they don't even know where it's going. They're just telling a buddy. They have no,

like I'm telling, you, yeah, I might not record my pod tonight. You know, this happened and you're like, oh, I'm going to tell Fandul Simmons isn't, like, that's kind of what's going on and how, I don't know how they police this. Well, they can't really police

that specific situation that you're describing with the Damon Jones thing was being alleged on that particular fact pattern because, yes, there is already in place a series of injury reports over the course of a day,

every single day the NBA puts out what on the hour, every two hours, an injury report. The very first one identifies guys and gives the likelihood of playing.

Right, cast string, questionable, probable. And some of what's been alleged in these indictments is like guys going from probable to out right over the course of a day. But that at least is a form of communication

that lets the market know, here are the possibilities for guys that are going to be, you know, possibly playing, possibly impaired, whatever the situation is. And for the most part, you can kind of see it coming. Like, it is the case now

that the journalism around the NBA, the NBA InfoSphere is sufficient, like, oh, that guy did something tweet to CAF last night. So he shows up on the injury report the next day. it might say start off as probable at the morning shoot-around or whatever. And then over the course of the day, maybe the condition changes, it worsens. But you can, if you're, you know, trying to gamble on stuff, build that into what you

anticipate, you know. Like the intuition. Yeah. The Warriors might rest curry. It's a back-to-back. Right. You can kind of infer certain things. I think the difference with this, though, what this opens up is all the people connected

is to a good player's life. Can take advantage of that if they want to, right? The equipment managers, the trainers, somebody who's like a security guard in the building who overhears Steph say, yeah, I'm not playing tonight. And that's where it gets harder to police, but this is where, like, I think the sports books actually, they can know, especially with the unders

and some of the bets that they can go. That's weird. Why are all these people betting on the Terry Rozier? under. That's how that started. It was like this irregular betting pattern that they noticed. Well, the window of opportunity for the non-public information is before the first injury

report. So like, it seems, it has to be the case. I have not, you know, sat down and committed to full memory and... I have not either. Unfortunately, it was busy, too busy today to read the entire... Reading indictments and stuff. But, you know, for both Damon Jones and what's being

alleged about Chauncey, which is he told somebody in advance of a game that, that all he was going to sit all the best players. That one's different. So the Chauncey thing moves into Pete Rose territory. Well, and Chaunce allegedly is in both sides of this, because this is two different things.

It's an illegal poker scheme, which was crazy with x-rays and the tables, and you're putting in tinted contact lenses to see mark cards. Like, shit, I didn't even, I've heard a lot of crazy illegal poker game stories. I didn't even know you can do this stuff. That's what rich guys do to each other. You know what I mean?

That's rich guy crime on crime. You know who's never? playing an illegal poker game, this guy right here. I don't trust it. Yeah, that's a good, good intuition. But so Chauncey was in that, but then he was also in this basketball side, allegedly, where, and I looked it up, it's interesting the game they pointed out. It was the 2020, 23 team. It was Dame was there, and they kind of shut Dame down for the rest of the season because they were trying to tank for that Scoot Henderson pick. And it was the first game he got shut down on. He had played the game before, and you can see the before, after with the box

scores of, oh, they still have some of their guys to, we have none of our guys. And if it's true that he tips somebody off, that they were doing this in a way that he wanted that person to gain financially from it, that's about as dark as anything that's happened in the NBA since Donah, if that's true. So the way that has to go down, though, is that the context surrounding the direction of the team. I mean, this is, this requires time and energy that I promise I will not commit to the situation. I did it today. It was right as they, and they were already, they'd lost some games. There we go. See? They'd won that in the mix of the tank. They're headed in a tank direction. So the market is already kind of anticipating. So the advantage that would, that he would

have conferred is telling somebody absolutely without equivocation, these guys are definitely not playing and that news doesn't he have an obligation in the injury report all those names at the very first time the injury report appears should have had those names on it and I'm not going back and looking at it but we can yeah but you can put that game before it comes out that day you can put in the game and the bet yes you can before it comes out that's the point that dame's getting show because the key with this is dame was playing and he realizes all right we're cutting this we're sitting dame for the rest of the season basically I'm going to give this information to somebody, if that's what he did.

Non-public information that pre-sees the injury report. Because the market, you can bet. You can bet when you wake up first thing in the morning. So if this is true that he did that. And then he's also in this other legal poker side of it, too. But that was a one-time thing, the way the indictment reads. He's like, he helped get some lure some poor sucker to the poker game one time. But he's still in it.

He's like, if all this is true, we're not going to, this guy coached last night. I watched last night. He did. Him coaching. He did do that. He was a coach on the floor. Yes. And then they sprung this on the-

Chips to the middle. I don't think it was unintentional that they sprung this in the worst possible timing for the NBA. Not unintentional. Steven I pointed that on our first take today, that this is, you know, we're coming off this incredible Wembe game.

That is what we should have been leading the podcast with today. And they just cut the legs out of it in 10 hours. Two incredible games, two incredible nights for the NBA. Welcome back. A beautiful night on NBC, followed up by an impeccable night on ESPN. Inside the NBA is firing on all cylinders. We have a legendary, a career-defining game out of Wembe. And the next day, it's Cash Patel time, baby.

It's not even the next day. It was 10 hours later, I got cash. Chauncey was on this list And this is crazy This guy's a Hall of Famer I think one of the more respected players We've had this century His name was Mr. Big Shot

And he ends up on this list Some of the people involved These are some of the nicknames house In this indictment list Spanish G Flappy The wrestler Spook

Juice Black Tony Sugar Albanian Bruce John South, Doc, Black Rob, and Pookie. We need to give out all those nicknames and apply them to Ringer people.

We need to do a draft. I mean, I already know who Black Tony is. I know who Flappy is. So do you think Black Tony? You think there was a white Tony? There were two Tonys and they had to split up the Tonys and that I had a lot of questions.

Very possible. Albanian Bruce couldn't just be Bruce. He had to be Albanian Bruce. Well, there was another Bruce. Weren't there two bruses? I don't like there were two bruses. I didn't, well, but the, thing is this guy's Albanian Bruce's

real name was Osman Hoti. Fine. So, yeah. There's a doc. There has to be a doc in all this. Somebody's got to be named doc. There was a doc and a pokey. That's what really made it feel authentic. So, yeah, the Chauncy thing bad. Rojier. So here's the

other thing bad, yes. What's being alleged is bad. Just everything we said bad. Yeah. Bad. His career will be over in the NBA. Rojier is the other really interesting piece of this. was cleared by the NBA. Now, the FBI saying,

not only is he not cleared, here's like some, and I did see some of that stuff in the indictment, like they had real hardcore stuff with Rozier, that was really bad. And the NBA cleared him, said they looked at his phone, and now this is a he said,

he said thing with did Rozier, what did he do? Now, Rozier's career has gone into the absolute tank over the last two years, right really is all of this start. started. And turn it was a guy that, you know, Miami traded for from Charlotte and gave up a first round pick. And we thought it was going to be this impactful trade. And two years later, his career is definitely over. I'm sure Miami will figure out how to get him taken off the salary

cap somehow and then replace him with a much better player. They are. That's going to happen. Yeah. We're not going to be allowed to bet on that. No, you can, you can do that. But so those with the big three. And I do think on the one hand, I don't feel like this is as big of a deal as it feels like. I think the Donahey thing was a much bigger deal. Way worse. It's like 10 times of a bigger deal. This is like, yeah, if gambling is going to be more and more prevalent, we're probably going to have a couple bad apples and everybody's going to learn how to behave and deal with it and maybe don't share information about who's playing, not playing if people you don't trust. Maybe just don't share it at all. How about that? That's what the injury report is for.

Let me ask you, though, big picture. Because I think the player underers, especially in the NBA, are problematic. And if I was like, if they made me the czar of sports gambling, right? Which I think I might have a chance when you see some of Trump's cabinet. I can't be ruled out. Oh, okay. If you made me the czar, I just want to know why we have player unders. Why not just be able to bet overs or nothing, especially in basketball and especially

when it's like not Steph Curry when you're talking about like Quentin Post over unders and Al Horford under threes and to me that's a danger area we could just eliminate. So I would just tweak it a tiny bit in

the and just con con con con con con con see I can't come up with the word tighten up tighten up constrict? That's it. Thank you. Golly. We're so old.

need the coffee. Yeah, take the pool of eligible players. Just give out props on a handful of players. Just let it be the players that we know, that we have reasonable certainty are going to play. You can take the props down if the guy ends up not playing because it's load management, whatever. But let's just have, you don't need really.

Do we need Quentin Post props? Did we need Jonte Porter Pot props? Honestly, I would do this for NFL too. I would only have like the bigger stars. Like, do we need K. Kisham Booty, do we need it to be like under three and a half for his catches and things like, he's actually pretty good. I do like a bad example.

Yeah, man. Give me a booty prop. But maybe it's like Kyle Williams, the Patriots rookie, like over under one and a half catches. Like that's where I think it goes sideways. So I would stay, if I was in charge of this, I would steer the props toward big players only. Yeah, you can do that.

There's some other radical stuff you could do, like freeze the lines five hours before the games and stuff like that. but that's really unfair if, you know, somebody gets scratched late. The thing in baseball that happened allegedly with a couple of the Cleveland Indians pitchers, being able to bet on pitches, I think is insane. I would probably get rid of that. The first pitch props. Holy cow.

I do wonder if 10 years from now, whether going to have more of this or less, I would prefer less, but, you know, I think it's going to shake out the way it's going to shake out. I still feel like, look, there's way more gambling. across the board that there used to be. You can see it everywhere. You can certainly see it on this podcast. And I think some of the stuff has to shake out. But we've always had the gambling stuff.

I wonder, like, do you think all of these things still happen if gambling had been more legalized across the states in the last 10 years? Like, I would argue, like, the illegal poker games, we've been hearing about those for 30 years, you know? As long as we've been sentient. Like, I've been gambling on basketball. since I was 17 years old. Like, how did I do that?

How was that possible? I knew a guy. And there were lines. There were lines in the newspaper. There weren't lines online, but there was a line in the Boston Globe every day. Right. And the NFL is their finding teams that lie in the injury report because they're putting these spreads out in the newspaper every day.

So we, basically, we've always been doing this. I just feel like we're more honest about it. And in the process of being more honest about it, I think there's going to be a couple hiccups that ultimately, if we can police all this and we can notice every time something's a little bit off, I think that's a plus, not a minus. That's where we are. Like, it's so much more regulated.

The books can, all established books can detect irregularities very rapidly. I mean, even the Rozier game, didn't they shut that down? Didn't they close off? Shut it down right away. Yeah, right away. And immediately, the same thing with Jante Porter, like, oh, there are bets here, and it doesn't even have to be very sizable increments, right? It's not like those dummies did attempt sizable increments because they're dummies. But, you know, there are, and we'll see these indictments reveal how you can get to scale, how you can get to $200,000 on an outcome without calling undue attention. You're spreading it out, you're using proxies, all that stuff. online usually. That's usually putting them on on different casinos. That's how they do it. They have like 10 runners putting places.

Yes, exactly. All the other things. But you mentioned Jonte Porter. Like, to me, that's the perfect example of why this is a little bit broken. Why are we allowed to bet on Jontay Porter unders? I didn't even know he was in the NBA. Yeah. But he was playing, what was it, on Toronto?

Toronto. He was like the 15th man. Right. Yeah. It would be like, I'm trying to think of anyone I watched in that Celtic Sixers game last night. The most obscure guy in that game. Barlow. Barlow. Bidding unders on Barlow block shots. Like,

that shouldn't be a bet. Barlow got all the Embed minutes in the fourth quarter and he fucking deserved them. How about that? I can't wait to talk about that. So, yeah, are there any other fixes you would do for? You can, just

just, you know, the prop pool, you know, tightening it up a little bit, makes sense to me. Okay. Well, We're going to come back with Albanian, Bruce Black Rob and Pookie. No, no. I want to do some PowerPulse stuff with you on NBA. And by the way, we'll keep talking about the gambling.

I really want... There'll be a lot more information that comes to life, right? We don't have enough info yet. I wanted to talk about it, but I also feel like the story is going to evolve and move. And, like, to me, people are saying this is the biggest issue the NBA has right now. I completely disagree. I really do. I think the biggest issue they have is the schedule.

And I still can't believe that Houston O'KC game. I watched on Tuesday night and how hard those motherfuckers played. Incredible. And they have to do that 81 more times plus playoffs. And Amman Thompson, who's probably one of the five best athletes in the league and is young and should be able to go all day. And he's about to keel over. They have to pull him out because he's getting cramps.

And if you watch the game, how crazy he was playing back and forth, But I'm much more concerned about how much speed, mileage, how much these guys run, the studies teams are doing about how much they run, how much sprinting they're doing during games. It's not sustainable. It's not. Yeah. And I think that's a bigger issue for the league. That's the concern I had watching that Wemby game last night.

Like, we only should get one of those every two weeks, maybe even only once a month, where he goes to that level with that level of intensity like when they were up by double digits with seven minutes left to the fourth quarter and he is still playing.

I'm like, get Wemby off the court. Get that man. Right. That man rest. He's done enough. Right. And he only played 29 minutes

but they were hard 29 minutes. Incredible 29. So yeah, listen, they have to figure out all the gambling stuff. My thing with the NBA is they sober is a smart dude. They had a lot of smart people

looking at this. And I think they need, knew is going to be Rocky for a couple of years and there are going to be a couple sacrificial lamps. And they're going to be, as Barkley said on Inside the NBA today, which I've really enjoyed on ESPN. They've not fucked with the show. I've got to give them credit to that. It feels like the exact same show in a different channel. But Barclay, they were arguing about whether this is like a gambling problem or whatever. And Barkley's like, these people are just stupid. He's right. This is a stupid problem. I agree with. So how do we regulate the stupid? It's going

to be a, it's going to be a work in progress. Well, it's self-executing. I mean, you know, if guys want to self-sabotage, there's plenty of, you know, attorney, whatever, ready to take them and put them in shackles. Cash Patel. We'll take a quick break and then we'll do the PowerPull. All right, coming back, PowerPoll, I watch both games Tuesday. I watch six straight hours of hoops on Wednesday. I had the three TVs going, which you've seen, plus my iPad, and four going at once. I was just trying to soak in as much as I possibly get. How, we're getting old. I have to, like, retrain myself how to watch four basketball games at once. I really was having struggle with it, but it was interesting was, and plus my daughter

was playing yesterday, too, her team. So I had that, then that ended. But the heart wants what the heart wants, and my eyes kept drifting towards Charlotte. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's just a delight. Just a delightful league pass team. I really enjoyed them. I took a spin through lead pass. I only had two. I can handle two at one time.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Two screens at once. The Charlotte game, I did not land on that one. That was not, it was like shit. Did that have been a big O'Card? I don't need to see Brooklyn. That really was the decision for me. I'm interested in Charlotte, but I don't need to see Brooklyn.

I want to rip through a quick power pole. Just a little snapshot. There's some overreactions in here. just after two days, and there's games going on right now. Like, as we're talking, Indiana's playing OKC.

Later tonight, Denver's playing Golden State. Oh, right. Favorite still O'KC. Contenders. So initially, I had Denver, Knicks,

Cavs, Minnesota, and the Clippers. As the contenders, I'm replacing the Clippers with Houston. That was the big ad for me after watching that game,

which I talked about already on Tuesday, but the size and what we saw from Shengun and Amman Thompson, what the potential is of KD when they figure out how to use him. I think we did the over-unders with Zach, what, two weeks ago? Yes. And I went under and I regret it because the ceiling of that team, I think, is a little higher than maybe I gave a credit for.

What did you think? I went under as well, but I know that's not what you're asking. But the reason is because they do still yet need some guard play. They do still yet need some perimeter scoring. Like Dylan Brooks, whatever the limitations are, that dude shot nearly 40% from three for them last year. Jalen Green, whatever the limitations are, could create a shot under the right circumstances.

They don't really, Amman Thompson could end up being that guy. But man. There's a lot of one-on-one, though. It was a lot of clear out somebody beating somebody up the dribble or somebody posting up on a side. and not a lot of easy stuff. Over the course of all the number of games that they have to play,

that limitation will kind of reveal itself to be of a vulnerability. That's a badass basketball team. Let there be no doubt. I really liked, I think I forgot to mention this Tuesday night. I really liked how Jabari looked. Somebody I've always liked, I've kept on my stock. I thought he had some good moments for them on both ends. I feel like it was the most confident version of Jabari we've seen maybe in his entire career.

He knew who he was supposed to be. on the floor with that team. And he's like, I'm here for it. I thought he was very good. Yeah. So they have to be in there because if Schengoon and Thompson, I had them in the high 20s when we did Ringer 100, but if they're moving up toward the low 20s or maybe even the teens combined with KD, combined with some of their depth, it might be enough to overcome

all the other stuff. I went on Eddie and Termini's show yesterday. Awesome. And we were talking about this Reed Shepard thing, which you had the Brent Price joke that I give you credit for on Tuesday. He's not Mark Price. he's Brent Price. We'll see how it goes with

Rich Guy Reed. But Rich Kid Reed, that was what a friend of mine who saw him at Summer League said he was like a rich kid in an AAU tournament, which I thought was funny. It's pretty good.

But we were talking to Eddie Johnson. We were talking about the Matt Maloney season. Eddie was on that team. That Barclay, Drexler, Hakeem. They make the, I think, Western Finals against Utah. And it came down to Stockton

versus Matt Maloney. And Matt Maloney, who they kind of like ductated. as a starter and been able and he could make a couple threes and he was okay he was an ivy leaguer kudos to him for making it in the league but then it got to john stockton time and he got worked like a speed bag and it cost them a playoff series right so the question for me with houston is are they going to leave that door open for a mat maloney situation or do what you've been saying

for a month go trade for a fucking point card yeah they have time i think they'll get a guard i do think they're going to do it i'm sure they're monitoring i mean derrick white was incredible yesterday. So if they want a godfather off for Derek White, if the Celtics are going to keep having exciting games and then losing with a minute left. Wow, you just said that out loud. I don't want to trade Derek White.

Why did you put him in this conversation? Because I think if Houston got a real guard, I think they could actually win the title. Derek White is better than a real guard. Derek White is fucking good. Yeah, but they always ask they in this war chest. Yeah, Lord have mercy. I'm not the first one who said that.

That's Derek White's floated around. All right. All right. So Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. The only other thing I noticed last night, and especially down the stretch, he'll a little comeback win for the Timberwolves. Beat Chauncey.

He sent Chauncey packing, literally. There was a little, don't forget about me in that game, where it's like all these teams, these new guys on the new teams, it's Wemby, Cooper Flats, the west Minnesota we talked about how they had I think the six best odds in the West

and people were discounted them in general but there was a there was a fuck you energy that he had in that game. Well he needed it because they had to outscore the Trailblazers 30 to 19 in the fourth quarter to win the goddamn game they were just you know sort of cruising along I was like dude this is game one

don't just show up and think that the Trailblazers is going to roll over Jeremy Grant ain't here to just roll over for you I mean We had a classic Jeremy Grant game last night. Black Tony's texting Chauncey at halftime. Chances is like, no, no. Don't let me send Pookie down there.

Denver is about to play. We haven't even seen them yet with their beautiful bench. I did see Mike Malone on the inside the NBA today. I think it's Michael. Michael. That bemoaning that they didn't have a bench when he coached the team. And then Cavs, I don't want to hear a Cavs, conversation to Garland is back and healthy.

Let's see him healthy and playing well for two weeks. That feels fair. That feels fair. So, OKC, then Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. Next group, two teams, possible contenders, Orlando and Golden State. And we'll see Golden State tonight. I liked how Golden State took care of business in the Los Angeles game. Me too.

How Cominga, they're basically the words Sean Marion have been thrown around for what Kerr wants from them this year. No, listen. Just run the floor, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Just do that for us. As a concept, yes, okay. It's a concept. Just be Sean Marion for us. We want to describe a concept.

And we're going to use the word, the name, Sean Marion to describe the concept. Not the player, Sean Marion. Not the player. Just conceptually do a Sean Marion impersonation. Okay. You know, the Horford thing, I love Big Al, one of the most popular Celtics of all time. I did kind of hit fuck you mode watching the watching him in a wear his uniform. Why?

Well, he left twice. He's allowed. He left Boston the first time he signed with Philly. Yeah. Came back. We won the title with him. And then he's like, now I'm going to go chase a title with Golden State. Well, you already won't want a title.

But, you know, for a little more money, he's made a lot. Yeah, I wouldn't say he's chasing the title. He had a good place to go to get another contract. What's wrong with that? I loved him in Boston. Well, Boston want to give him a contract. Listen, I'm not saying it's rational. I just got spiteful watching.

I was like, fuck you. So unlike you. How dare you're on Golden State? Yeah, it hurt my feelings. I didn't think it was going to hurt my feelings, but it did. He should have retired with the Celtics. And as usual, there's no loyalty in sports. I don't know why I care.

It's still do that with the additional $25 million in his pocket or whatever it was. But Golden State, possible contenders, but could see them moving up a notch. Sure. I like the vibe with them. and they very comfortably kicked the Lakers ass. It was really professional. It was very orderly. They were like, okay, this is fine.

Good job. Pat him on the head. And then Orlando, who let Miami hang around for a while last night and then took care of business down the stretch. But, you know, newsflash, Desmond Bain's good at basketball, who's the top 40 to 45 player, and they added him and gave up nothing. They just gave up future assets that weren't going to help them this year.

So Orlando, maybe, if I'm an Orlando fan, And we went, we went, I went slight under on them. Did you go under on them? Yes. It was like 50 and a half. Yes. Yes. Just, you know, 49 wins is still fine.

I wonder, do you think 51, 52 wins could win the East if Cleveland continues to just have guys bouncing in and out and not ever being 100% healthy? No, because the NICs. No, you think it's higher? Well, I, one of my locks was the Knicks over 53 and a half, I think. Okay. Yeah. So what's a number?

What's a number for the winning record in the East? 57 or 58 to me. Okay. Yeah. And I think the next- But I want to watch them a little more carefully See how Suggs didn't play a ton of minutes in that first game I think a month from now

We all bet over on Cleveland, by the way Me, you and Zach I think we were in agreement And the number was 56 and a half, I think, for Cleveland, wasn't it? I'm not worried. Okay, just saying You ask me what number wins the east It's got to be north of 56 and a half

That's all I'm saying. I hope so. Okay. I'm just, I'm trying to figure out a path for Orlando to be a one seed. And I think the win number would have to be way lower. Next category, the sleeper, San Antonio. So, look, this is what happens with the NBA. Everybody goes nuts when we're all watching something at the same time.

And people throw the word insane around because insane is the most used word in probably sports watching. And it was insane. I would argue it was actually underrated how insane it was. I was in awe. To me, this was like Tiger that first year in 97, just demolishing golf courses and we're like, what's going on?

Him doing that to Dallas, not just Davis, but you have lively there, you have flagged, like you have this good defensive identity, and he completely eviscerated them In a way that we talked about in the over under pod. I was all in on San Antonio being much better this year.

You did. You did. And I really thought he had a chance. I thought him at 12 to 1 when MVP was probably the best value odds. And who knows if he can even play 65 games. But what he did in that game was one of the most frightening things I've seen on a basketball court. And I can't even think of that many other examples. That's the problem with it.

It is so rare now for us as sports fans to see an athlete that I'll just, you know, put it in a dumb way, takes our breath away. That doesn't really even begin to tell the story. Like, I can't believe my eyes are seeing something that I don't think I've seen before. That, like, that's 100%. I can't, like, compare him to anybody for all of the years we've been watching basketball. I can't compare them to anybody. Like, no, it'd be like if there was a seven foot wide receiver who was basically like a seven foot Randy Moss and they were just throwing 50-yard passes to him and he would just jump up and catch

them. And we were like, what's going on? How is this a human being? Yeah. The speed is incredible. I mean, what he did in terms of taking Anthony Davis out sort of north of the circle, he starts shaking the other

his crossover he double crossovers he hesites and then he's he's at the rim in a stride

and he just flushes the fuck out of it what? What did I just see? In the

three point shooting I loved he was clearly realized he needs to be a little more around

the rim yes yes and news flash we've been telling you that for two

years but I'm glad he figured it out And then defensively, it's always fun to see the new guy, like flag. He's like, ah, this would be fine. I'll figure him out. And he had a couple of moments who was like, oh, my God.

I didn't realize. Listen, we talked about this in the Overnor's Pod. He just is moving better. He's more, I don't want to say more coordinated, but all the stuff he's done to work on his balance and his footwork, like you really see a difference. That first year, he was falling over half the time. He's a child. He's still growing.

he's like he's not he's not grown he's still growing like he's still filling out physically I was thinking there was one play he had maybe it was when he did that through his legs 19 times hit a three and got fouled and then cut to the spurs bench and multiple guys were like this with their hands

behind their head and I was thinking like the Thomas Hill test yes of the latest shot they cut to him after and he's just like oh my gosh Just like, I just in shock. And I think that's the rarest level an athlete can get to.

When you're Thomas Hill testing, your teammates or people on the bench, they're just like, and these guys are just playing basketball every day. They've seen every incarnation of everything. They're playing with him. His teammates play with him. And they can't believe what they're seeing. Right. We haven't had a basketball player do that.

I know. I was trying to think about. Curry, like Curry, when he was breaking through, starting to make the threes was, I think, the last one that gave people that feeling. Yeah, so the two that I was wondering about, and I'll go back and look, because I am actually kind of intrigued by this intellectual exercise, young Shaq was mind-blowing. Orlando, when he was like super skinny, when he started, it was like, nobody can stop him. There's no way, the only way to, you know, you have to foul him. And by fouling, I mean, grab him by the arm and hold it. But also, the way he ran the floor, you and I both separately saw him in those first two years.

And we were just like, oh, my God, what's that? Is this guy going to be the best part of the history of the league? Yeah, so Shaq's a good one. I don't think we ever felt that way with Janus. I mean, Janus was always, he jumps out at you, right? And because the physical specimen is incomparable. but it took a while for the basketball part to kind of come in. It was never 100% like it was with the Wembe thing.

It was like, whoa, this is really cool. But that was when we had that unicorn era with Porzingis and some of the, you know, and B, some of these other like, whoa, these guys, we haven't seen people like this. Wembe is beyond a unicorn. I mean, nobody's ever done that on a basketball court before. I was watching with my son who for the last like five, six years has been playing all the NBA 2K, all those games. And he had this player who created

when he was a kid called J.J. McCutcheon. And the guy would have like be a 99 in every category, but he was also seven feet tall. And we would, and I would always be like, Ben, this isn't like somebody who would be a real player. It's like, yeah, but that's what makes them awesome. And we're watching. And he's like, this is like J.J. McCutchen.

This is like the guy created. But if the guy was actually a real person. The kid, the kid says that. Here's what I want, I'm going to ask. Can we talk to some old heads? I want to know what your dad thinks. How did he feel when he first saw Will? And did he get to see Will live ever?

I do think Will and Russell were both like this. There's unquestionably all the reports from back then, like Russell's defense and the way he ran the floor and could protect the rim, nobody had just ever seen it. Yeah. And then Will came in with some of the, you know, you can see some of it's on YouTube. Some of his finger roll stuff and like his power

and his power on the rim. It just didn't exist. Right, right. Those are two good ones. Kareem had the skyhook that in person, you really had to, it was just different in person. You just kind of could, you were like, how is anyone ever going to block that? Magic and Bird had the passing, obviously. Jordan had the athleticism.

Dominique as an in-game dunker. I thought had a little of like, in-person, but nothing like this. No, no, no. No, no. This was, and I will say LeBron in the late 2000s, his first two MVP seasons. Okay. And I remember writing about this once, because I remember writing a piece about how he had arrived in like 2009. But he had this play at a Quipper game where it felt like he just dunked two steps from midcourt.

And the speed he had, it was so fast. We were all, you could just kind of hear the arena buzzing after. It was so crazy athletic. Right. Oh, my God. Yeah. What was that? Marlon, like, hard to believe.

That's the sheer size at that speed. So, well, we just went through nine of the top 12 players in the history of the game. So there we go. Well, that was always the ceiling for him. I think what's interesting about this is, you know, and we've talked about this in the past, but this always happens earlier than we think. Like, nobody thought Tiger was going to walk in and kill the masters. You are right.

And you are correct. And crush everybody. You are correct. Nobody thought LeBron was going to make the finals in 07. Sometimes this just happens earlier than New York. Nobody thought Duncan was going to win the title in his second year. Maybe some people did. I don't remember.

But it's always faster. Nobody thought OKC was going to be a contender. And all of a sudden, they were. And I wonder with San Antonio's, it's just going to happen fast now. Is this a supercharge where we should just start? If Wembe's going to be healthy all year, this is a top 17? team period. And I don't know the answer.

It's fascinating because we didn't really get a feel for what the role players, what the team around him looks like, how they're going to compete night in, night out. All we got was what really feels like a once-in-lifetime performance. Like in a one week's span, we got Shohei Otani with one of the top three best baseball games in the history of the sport. Yeah. You know, fine.

want to call it number one. I'm not going to argue with you. And then we got this game out of Wembe, a human specimen that is unlike any basketball player we've seen with the kind of dominance that is unparalleled. And we got an X-ray table legal poker game scandal. I mean, what a week for all of us. On Fandul, Spurs Over Under is now up to minus, it's 45 and a half now. Yeah. And I still think it's too long. games or at least one full games. It was 44 and a half. It went down to 43.

Now it's 45. Okay. But I just find it hard to believe that's not a contender. Here's the other thing with them house. I loved how Cornett looked with them. Yeah. They have trade stuff if they want it. Sure.

If they want to go really try to upgrade somebody, they didn't have Deering Fox in that game. I loved how Castle looked in that game. I thought what a fit. I thought, I just felt like he went up a level and clearly, I liked how he had a couple good alliops to Wembe. Symbiosis. They are on the same page of them too. Unquestionably the sleeper this year.

Next one, the Aspiration Gang, the Clippers. So move them down. They were so bad. I watched the first half that Utah game. They were so bad that I don't even know what to make of it, but it has to be flagged. Why do they, why do they show up that way? What do you think the explanation is?

one thing we went over on them we almost put them in our super boost because we needed them to get to 50 games right the total is 49 and a half can they get to that we didn't put them in the super boost though no no i mean because you can't trust they did a good job of building out their their bench i mean i think this the thesis for expecting them in the 48 to 52 win range is a sound thesis but shit can go wrong I do wonder about the personality that I'm going to, and it's one game. I want to watch them more, and I especially want to see them in person. But you've quiet Kauai, if Hardin is in his own world, your guy Bradley Beal, who is like the, come on guys, let's fucking go guy on that team? Chris Paul's too old. Isn't it Lopez? Should be Brooke Lopez. He's not doing that.

They don't have the guy, as my point. So you're down 20 in Utah, and the team's like, okay. let me ask you this I didn't like their body language at all you think that was Will Hardy's Super Bowl he's like I just want everybody in the basketball world to know

to remember that I'm good at Kimi I just want you to see what I could do here's what it's game one the season's going to go the ways I have some good players here's the stuff we're going to do I could do this we could I could take these Utah white boys

and get out here and run a basketball team this way we probably not going to do it all season long, but I just want you to see it. Well, I'll tell you this, Kessler Kessler jumped out of the TV. He was fucking awesome in that game. Remember in the Knicks? We're like, we're trying to get

Kessler. It's like, cool. Kessler's good. We're not just giving him to you. He looked great, though. It's going to be, I guess their guards will be the key to them tanking, Utah. Yes. But when you have Kessler and marketing, you're just going to hang around in some of these games.

I think one of the lessons of watching all the games last night, the talent is so fucking deep. It's like outrageous. I just can't believe how many good players there are. Like even Charlotte, my beloved league past Charlotte team, Colin Sexton is just on the side just coming in.

Like that guy in the mid-2000s would have started on playoff teams. This is a nice observation you're making because I wanted to give out a handful of fuck yous. Hey, Atlanta Hawks, fuck you. Like here's the thing, right? It's game one.

It's time to show up. It's time to show out a little bit. LA Clippers. Here's a nice fuck you for you. Here is I put it on a platter. I mean, the teams that showed up like, oh, we're just going to kind of roll through. I was impressed the heat.

No fuck you for the heat. Good job, Pete. Heat competed, right? No hero. Norm Powell was up for it. How about Davian Mitchell? Davion Mitchell. We'd seem like that had flash in the pan possibilities.

The charges just scored. It's 21 to 3. This might just be the podcast tonight. Good. I do have a nice fuck you for the Pistons as well. I just want to give one out for the Pistons. Well, I want to get to them in a second. So the Aspiration gang, the Clippers.

By the way, I Googled Aspiration to see if there's a logo because I was going to do a joke and send it to you. Okay. And when you Google Aspiration, the first thing that comes up is how it's people that choke on their own vomit? What? That's what? Aspiration.

Yes, the physical phenomena. Yes, right. Yeah, that is, I guess I'm surprised that that comes up first, though. They named the charity after choking on your own vomit? Why was that the charity? No wonder it went under. That's such a great, great joke. How do we miss this?

We miss this joke. I don't know. It took me forever. We've been going on for two months now. We missed this joke. It's amazing. Bomber choked on his own vomit in 15. million dollars. Uncle Dennis didn't joke. Uncle Dennis got all that cash. Next category.

Now we're dropping off. This category is called Let's See in March. I got Dallas here and I got Milwaukee here for different reasons. Dallas. I just, I want to go on the record really emphatically. This flag playing point guard thing is fucking stupid. It's stupid. Stop Jason, kid. We know you got your extension. We know you lucked out with that. the lottery. We know you did this with Janice in Milwaukee, but this is not the right way to bring in a kid who's not even 19 and who doesn't know what kind of basketball player he is yet, but it clearly is special. You're putting all this extra stuff on him that I think is ridiculous. I don't understand as soon as Kyrie comes back, he's never playing point

guard again. What is the point of this? Who's supposed to play point guard for them? Play DeAngelo Russell and Nemhard. Like, who cares? It's October. Okay. What I don't want to do is have flag dribbling the ball up against Castle and people like that. Like, that's crazy. You mean guys I'll just go take the ball from him? Yeah, he's not a point guard.

He's six, eight and a half. He's played forward his whole life. I just, I hated it. And Anthony Davis. Yes. Moving into a different phase of his career watch. Well, it's game one. I'm not on it yet, but I just...

Didn't love the boss. Here's the thing, right? He's been in the week since 2012, and he's a big guy, and big guys don't usually age well. We want to see them play a team that doesn't have... I mean, we have to come up with some way to describe wemiana. That's not unicorn. It's so superior to unicorn. The most superior iteration of a unique being.

He's just Wembe. How about just Wemby? Yes. He's a Wembecorn. He's a Wembecorn. Sure. Good. let's see Dallas when they're not playing the Wembecorn

because they're like them not having an answer for that maybe we can show them some grace who do they play tomorrow they play oh home against your wizards that's a great great one that'll clear out all the bad taste in our house yes that sounds awesome so anyway I want to

I still think I like their players and their team I'm still bullish on them Milwaukee's the other one Janus looked like Janus again Porter got hurt during the game but you know they beat a bad team but I'm still bullish on Milwaukee

as as here's the thing in a mid-tie 40s team they are dedicated to if they are dedicated to the bit they came out and shot the 3D ball excellent and if that's what they want to do right

because they were the best percentage-wise three-point shooting team in the league but they were under utilizing it volume-wise well five of their first eight made baskets were threes they won the basketball game in the first six minutes now this might be a common theme when you play the wizards but they they got up by by 20 they were on pace they had uh they were

on pace for 200 points in that game they had 25 points in the first six minutes um because they were you know the ball moved beautifully those guys knew exactly where they were going to be and they have space yeah they have space because of the shooters they took care j green yeah and they dared Washington to rotate defensively and it didn't happen. They just knocked down threes. I like the concept theoretically of Janus and shooting. Me too. And then Turner with Janus defensively, I think is going to matter.

And I still am in on that team. It all makes sense. Next group, flawed but interesting. I have five here. Lakers, Detroit, Toronto, Philly, and Atlanta. I was down on Detroit before the season. It was one of my underlocks. I think if I was a Detroit fan, what would disturb me is

I'm playing Chicago a team that's not going to make the playoffs and if you knew nothing and you were just watching the game you would think they were equal talent talent was right that's not a good time for Detroit my problem was the effort

like they have guys with the motor like that's what Ron Holland is for that's what Duren is for like they're supposed to the role guys are supposed to help you know the the starters I don't are they

discombobulated because Ivy is out again? Like, what's the explanation? Ivey's out. I just don't think with Ivy out, I just don't think from a talent standpoint, they're that special unless Cade goes up another level. So I just flawed been interesting. I'm not ruling them out,

ruling them in, but my instinct was that people were throwing them in this East fringe contender conversation. I'm the opposite. I think they're closer to being a playing team. They had to outscore the bulls, by 11 in the fourth quarter to make it

a, you know, competitive on the stretch. Lakers, I did not have as one of my playoff teams and I had them losing in the plan. You gave them out as a plan. Having them playing and I had them losing in the plan. And the reason is because I don't think they're going to be able to guard anybody. And then you watched an opening night.

Golden State should have won that game by 25. Sure. Could have. Multiple times, multiple ways they could have won that game by 25. And I know they didn't have LeBron, but LeBron is now in his 40s. And I don't think you can count on him in a real way for regular season like you could have in even 2018. The Lakers aren't good enough.

They don't have enough talent. That's all. And I don't necessarily even, not positive they care about this season. I think it's more of a. Good point. Let's just take some chances. We have some expirings.

Let's kind of see where we go. They extended JJ before the year, which I said to you and Zach two weeks ago. I thought was interesting. It made it seem like, hey, no matter what happens, we believe in this infrastructure. I don't, I think they're one of

six or seven worst defensive themes in the league. How would you handicap the likelihood that sometime here and the next, I don't know, 30 days maybe even less, that we get word that this is going to be LeBron's retirement tour? Are you asking me because you want to tell Damon Jones of Black Tony? Well, Damon Jones already knows. I need Damon Jones to tell me and Pookie. Me and Pookie. I do not think, I do not think LeBron is retiring.

Okay. I think he's going to play until he's 45. Okay. I think LeBron and Aaron Rogers are just going to keep going and going. Lakers, very suspicious. I just don't think when you compare them to some of these teams in the West, like Houston and San Antonio, like Minnesota, these teams are young. Go guy by guy.

Position by position by positions. They're not good enough. They're not good enough. We'll see. I've counted out the Lakers before in previous years and then all of a sudden they win eight in a row. I just, I, Luca would have to go on a fucking heater. Remember, again, Dorian Finney Smith was really helped change the trajectory of that team

because they really found a defensive identity. Like, it's crazy shit like that that can happen. Toronto looked great. Toronto looked great. That might have been one of my big misses. It was a Joe House lock. I don't remember whether or not Zach locked it. They looked really good.

Listen, I'll admit defeat if that is a potential like top seven team. I believe that it is. I thought they played hard. Yes. They were long. They're healthy right now. Who lungs?

Who knows how long that's going to last? But they jumped out to me. Coach Darko played 11 guys. If they're going to play with that level of intensity and make sure that everybody gets the feels, gets the touches, they're going to be tough. You made fun of me. When I said to you. Well, I did make fun of you.

I did. The Oklahoma City, like, you know, they want to try that. kind of blueprint, which is get out in transition, try and force turnovers, try and be a defensive presence. And they won fast break points by like 20. And they had 86 points in the paint. In 138 points they scored, 86 of them were points in the paint because they kept going to the goddamn rim. Impressive. That's all. I'll stop. This was my overreaction game because Toronto kills Atlanta. And Toronto, I'm with you. What I'm liked about what I saw from Toronto, they clearly know what they want to be. And what they wanted

to be was athletic and they want to push and they want to go and they want to go. Now, I don't know if it was just because they were playing Atlanta or that's who they are, but there was an identity they had that I wasn't expecting. On the flip side, Atlanta, who was a team we were high on and then the over under got too high and I think that scared all of us. It got to like 47 and a half. So this is one of those things where you can look at something on paper forever and then you have to actually see it on a basketball court and I don't know that maybe I've seen too many games over the years but I was immediately like oh no because they're not going to be able to rebound house and forget about like the transition defense and some of the other issues in that game but you have porzingis

they started porzingis he's 25 feet from the basket you got tray young you've jalen Johnson and Daniels, some other shooter. There's no rebounder. And one of the things with Porzingis, when the Celtics would play him, like Tatum, Tatum was one of the best 20 rebounders in the league. The team was a gang

rebounding team. I really was worried about Atlanta after watching them. And maybe it's going to take a while for the pieces to fit together. But it was a team that didn't make sense to me as I watched it. Did you see it? It did not make sense. and there are a couple culprits.

The rebounding is concerning. It could be Okongwu. That's his job. And Jalen Johnson got seven and poor Zenghis got seven. And, you know, they got dealt with on the boards. Here's the issue, man. Let me ask you, I'll put it to you in the form of a question. Who do you think took the most field goals last night?

Do you already know the answer? I don't. Who was it? Nikiel Alexander Walker took 15 fucking fuel goal attempts last night. He was two for 15 from the field. What in the fuck is going on in Atlanta? Like, seriously, you built this team and had an idea for who you're going to put out there. How is he taking the most shots on the team?

How is that possible? In 26, 28 minutes, he took 15 field goal attempts. How? Why? How's that make any sense? I don't like it. I'm not writing them off, but my blink test watching them was like, I don't know. I don't know if these guys all make sense together.

We'll see. But I definitely cool it on them a tiny bit. But they can win me back in the next week. And then Philly, I watched that entire game. I bet you did. It's really interesting because Embed just looks like he's, done. And who knows it can come back, but he

can't really jump anymore. He can't you know, every time they really did well was when he wasn't out there, including the fourth quarter, they just didn't bring him back because he was on a quote-unquote minutes limit. But the maxi and VJ together was just the most electric. The VJ thing's unbelievable. The big

thing on him coming out of the draft was this guy's an incredible athlete, he can't finish. He has terrible finishing stats. Let me tell you, he finished the fuck out of the Celtic game. he was finishing everything and he was competitive and he's got a swagger to him

and him and maxed together that's the future of that team the Sixers fans should be over the moon about this they're gonna you know the Embed thing the extension disaster George disaster

but all of it led to them getting the third pick in the draft and getting rejuvenated with this guy who looks like 2005 Dwayne Wade I mean it's stunning it's stunning let's just leave it

that other than Wembe it was the most stunning thing of the the confidence plays game speed he was there for all of it the basketball IQ is off the effing charts

he moves when he doesn't have the ball if he's in the corner he's my favorite kind of guy where he's still thinking of stuff to do even if he's not bobbing the play it's like oh can I back cut oh can I get an offensive rebound oh can I come flying in for a jam

he's up to stuff all the time How many phone calls do you think Daryl in the second half was making like, hey, we know that Paul George contract. We know that we'd the extra year. But let's figure out a way. Like how many? Oh, I thought you were saying Daryl was calling his wife being like, I have good news.

I'm going to be keeping my job for the next few years because VJ. H comes fucking awesome. Well, and also they need to get Paul George off that team away from this team as quickly as possible. There is, there is, it's a, I don't know how they're going to do that. It's a zero proposition,

zero sum. Also, like, we talked about leap guys when we did the over-unders. And I think I'd like to, I'd like to belatedly include Maxi in that combo. He deserves it.

Oh, does he deserve it? He was downhill constantly. And I thought the Celtics, they didn't shoot well, but they played really hard. And the reason they lost was because, they weren't making threes and then

ironically Cata fouled out and Luca Garza was in concussion protocol so they had to play Xavier Tolman in the last two minutes of the game and he missed a big shot but

the VJ and Maxi thing attack attack attack attack attack attack and Embedges doesn't fit in with it so I don't know what they do just play him the 20 minutes it's totally fine he's a role player

he can be miserable he'll make a Who cares? No, he, that the work, we're, if, if he, if they permit that to happen, then, then we'll know for sure. Then then we'll be having podcasts with Daryl. How about LeBron for Embed right now? Who's, oh, you paused.

Well, the Lakers have to say no, no, no. Yeah, I think he's a 20-minute player who, you know, should be able to get you a handful of rebounds and, I like Embed, I hope it comes. back, but it doesn't seem like his right leg works anymore. He's, look, I don't say this with any joy. This is end of career, Greg Oden's shit. This is what Greg Oden

looked like after, you know, the last series of surgeries that he had, and he tried one last time to come back. That's what NB looks like to me. I hope he can come back. It did not look good last night. It's bad for Philly that. It's like

we have to keep him out of the game if we want to win. Water trekkers, Boston, Memphis, Miami, and Indiana. We don't have to talk about them. League Pass All-Stars next category. People in Memphis are going to be mad that we're just skipping over them. Well, they had 40 injuries already, and they won the first game just because John Moran was awesome. The guy plays 30 to 45 games a year.

They handle their business at home against Norlands, and Norlands did jump out to a lead. I mean, you know. But look at the group, though. Boston, Memphis, Miami, Indiana. They're treading water, waiting to see who they're going to be. I think that Memphis is fair. League Pass All-Stars, Charlotte, New Orleans, and Chicago. New Orleans, I think Zion looked really good.

And they have fun players in that team, and I just think they're going to be a fun team to watch. Chicago's same thing because of the pace. And then Charlotte was a revelation. I like Cockbrenner. I'm just going on the record. Sure. I think he's a real NBA player.

I agree with you. I think he's a 30-minute-a-game big guy. I agree. And we went into the season going like Charlotte doesn't have big guys. They're not going to be, but they have multiple guards. It wasn't against Brooklyn, to be fair, but yes. Well, they were playing a G-League team. Yes, they were.

But they have like semi-competent big guys and then Cnapple and I just like them. Next category, wait, where's our coach? That's Portland. The next category is, why are we here, Phoenix and Sacramento? What a battle that was. Don't show disrespect to Phoenix. This is going to be an ongoing theme. I honestly kind of like directionally what Phoenix.

This is at least a team that, that, makes a little bit of sense. More sense than last year. It makes more sense than last year. And I honestly think the good people of Phoenix deserve after that hot turd. They were served for an entire season last year of unmet expectations and guys that didn't like playing with each other. I think this team does like play.

I like what I'm seeing out of them thus far. One game in. I'll just leave it at that. Well, I have them as either the fourth or fifth worst basketball team in the league. That's fine. And the other team that they're battling with those. Sacramento, who that game came down to the last minute. Last category is dumping for

Darren, Utah, Washington, and Brooklyn. Utah's the best of the three. Darren is the Darren Peterson on Kansas. What do you think if Utah really tried, how many games do you think they could win? If they competed. High 20s. Okay, I was going to say low 30s. So I'm glad we're on the same page. All right. That

segment was way longer than I expected. We're going to take a break and then do Ringer 101.7. It's just the NBA. What do you want us to do? Check out Blockbuster movies streaming on Paramount Plus. Cue the music. Like NCIS, Tony, and Ziva. We'd like to make up her own rules.

Tulsa King. We want to take out the competition. The substance. This balance is not working. And the naked gun. That was awesome. Now that's a mountain of entertainment. Paramount Wolf.

All right, House, Ringer 107. We went three and two last week. felt like four and one was in play and we couldn't pull it off. We were one game under 500, but we've been slowly clawing back. And it's a bi-week week this week. These are the dangerous weeks

when you can't find five games, but you still have to do the five games. I'd like to request that we stay away from Eagles, Giants, and Chiefs Washington with higher lines. I just want no part of that Eagles Giants game. I want no part of the Chiefs, you know, favored by nine and a half

against your team, Marriota. Is it only nine and a half? Is it higher than that? I thought it was much higher. Maybe it's higher. Regardless, we're staying away. Okay.

I have three maybes for you. Jets Bengals, Jets are favored by, or Jets are getting six and a half in Cincinnati. I don't want to bet this game. I really don't. Jets 27 DVOA Cincinnati 29th, but the line is so high. It's like trying to sucker you into betting the Jets. They're begging you to take the Jets. The Bengals should just be favored by three.

And it's like, here, we'll give you three and a half extra points to take the Jets. You're supposed to take the Jets. You're supposed to do it. It seems like it's going to be. Criterion collection had this 50% off flash sale. And I have all the Blu-Rays I want. And I was like, all right, I'll look anyway. It's like this is a flash sale of three and a half extra points.

It's Tyrod too, right? We think. Staying away. Okay. I'm not betting on the Jets. We bet on the Jets and we too. I know. It just sucks.

It does suck. Falcons Dolphins Falcons minus seven and a half I have this as a maybe only because you have the Atlanta offense fourth against the run Miami's defense

32nd against the run they didn't fire Mike McDaniel last week Atlanta's defense is first against the pass seventh yard per play Miami's offense pretty much terrible across the board coming off one of the worst games

we've seen anyone play in the last couple of years. Falcons minus seven and a half. The hook scares me a little. Not me. Got to play Falcons. This is Falcons at home. The only thing I wondered about was Pennix. She wanted me to move this up. Yeah. He somebody rolled up on him. There was like an ankle kind of thing. And he didn't practice. They had their walk through on Wednesday. He did do limited practice from taping this on Thursday. They have a $40 million backup. Well, here's the thing I was wondering about. Now, we're going to play it at seven and a half. We can't get out of that spot. This is going to be your pick. I'm definitely, I mean, as long as Miami, the Miami Dolphins put Tua out on the football field as they're starting quarterback and their head coach is Mike McDaniel, you must bet the other side of it.

I don't even know what the number is that would scare me off. It ain't this. It's not seven and a half in Atlanta. We think Atlanta is good when they play at home. We think their defense is good. So this is something we've been on for the last couple weeks. Teams, you're only allowed to bet on at home because there's another one coming up. Right.

I like Atlanta as a home team. Me too. Yeah, I think they roll. I think they smash. And I hope Miami continues to just bring Tua and Mike McDaniel out week after week so we can keep betting the other side. I can't believe Mike McDaniels come back. All right, I moved that into the

maybe into the yes category. Last one in the maybes was Saints Bucks. Saints plus four and a half at home against Tampa. I like the Saints at home a little more than anywhere else. Learn my lesson last week. New Orleans well last week we kind of fucked that up

that was your pick but I supported it and a lot of the reasons we took Miami I went against Miami and Cleveland bad weather blah blah

and then New Orleans is playing outdoors in bad weather and we have New Orleans yeah wrong and yet Chicago still was like

dying to let them hang around in that game literally the freaking hook and ladder that the guy threw a forward pass on

it was a It's about to be a game, potential game altering. The trajectory, like, game was in doubt. Rattler, put the ball, gave the ball away too many times. I don't want to talk about it. So New Orleans at home lost, came back against Arizona and San Francisco and almost won but lost. They beat the Giants at home, and they lost the Pats at home in a game that the

refs tried to steal from the Pats. They're only average an 18 in a game. I don't know who's playing for the Bucks. My instinct leans toward the Saints, but I don't really. want to have them again. I didn't enjoy it last week. I don't know how long is Rattler going to be the starter?

Are they going to start tanking soon? There's a tanking strategy for them, so let's stay away. Yeah, we dabbled with the Saints. That's enough. It's like, you know, there's a parlay possibility house. Yeah.

We have the Colts minus 14 applicants of Titans. We can use their money line or some sort of version of there because they're going to kill the Titans. Could also just lay the points. Could also lay the points. Patriots against the Browns. Pat's minus seven.

Cleveland's offense is just horrible. 28th rush, 30th pass, 27 first downs. I know their defense is good. But I do think the Pat's defense, this is a perfect game for them because they're really good at stopping the run. You can throw in them a little bit, but Cleveland has Dylan Gabriel.

This New England fan base is so fired up by this Patriots team. They haven't had like a kick-ass home game yet. They had the Carolina game. It was like in doubt for an hour and then they came back and won. But I think this could be the kick-ass game. Can I? Once you go up 13, the game's over.

I totally agree with this. The only modest proposal I would like to make as we think about the idea of a parlay, a money-line parlay here is I honestly would rather, because we don't have a lot of choices on the card this week, who's the Colts, let the Colts lay the point. with the Colts and use the Chiefs, Parley, the Chiefs and the Patriot. We might have enough, though, because, well, the other one I was going to throw them was the Ravens against the Bears at home.

That one, you know where I'm coming from on this. Ravens. Not only that, like, can I borrow some money from somebody? Yeah, this is the first playoff game of the year with the Ravens. This is Kitchen Sink. We have to win. We have Caleb. I made this prediction on Tuesday's pod.

We did one crazy prediction, me and the. the fantasy guys, that Tyson Bayesian as the starter for the Bears by week 13. It was not good in that New Orleans game. Wow. He was not. But parlay of Ravens,

Patriots, and Colts minus 1.5 gets us under the minus 120. Pats to win, Ravens to win. Colts win by 2. It's minus 117 on Fandul, and we can do that and win. Well, what are the remainder games?

What are the games are we better? I just putting that in. Okay. I mean, I'm just barking at that. That might be one of my picks. All right. Here are the possibles. Texans minus one and a half against the 49ers.

Houston's two and four. Four of those games were on the road. Their next three are at home. Their eighth in DVOA somehow. Because their defense is sick. Their defense is awesome. Coming off this ugly Seattle game, right, where they couldn't block and they, but guess what? Seattle has an awesome defense and they were home and it was a Monday night.

and they were maniacs the whole game. I'm in on Houston's defense. I thought that, like talk about hats on the ballhouse. Yeah. It was one of those eight guys tackling every Seattle guy. They even got a penalty because they had too many guys continue to tackle somebody. Their defense, third in DVOA,

it's only given up 14.7 points a game. They're going against Mack Jones. They're going against the San Francisco team that was able to scotch tape a defense last week and do a bunch of shit that now you can just watch the tape and be like, oh, they're doing this. let's do this instead. They're going to have no pass rush.

I don't care if Nico Collins plays or not. I think Stroud with actual time to throw will be okay. And it's Texans minus one and a half. I love the Texans in this spot. So I just was scared of this game because I have been on the wrong side of Shanahan and the 49ers too many times this season. They just keep, we keep saying. Here's the thing.

They're five and two. We just keep saying, here's the point where it flips for them defensively. Here, the, you know, Bosa, they can't get any pressure on. But we had them last week. We took them Sunday night. It was, and it was the correct play. Right. I know, but I'm just saying, like, you know.

This is just like, I just want to bet the Houston defense in this game. Houston defense against Mac Jones. For the contest, we have it at one and a half. Yeah. It's your pick. I, I'm Luke. warm on it. You're lukewarm?

Yeah. Okay. I like it. I don't think Houston's going two and five. If they lose this game, their season's over. This is a kitchen sink game for them. I want to see like one great quarter of offense when it's not against the Titans. Counter.

This is a classic. Niners look probably better than they are on Sunday night. Okay. Houston looked worse than they are in a bad situation for the team they have on a money. a night. Okay. And this line should probably be two and a half or higher because it's two and a half now for the purposes of our contest.

We got it at one and a half. It's published at one and a half. We're playing at one and a half. The public is going to have to ride the market. I want to make sure. So it's definitely, I want to make sure we don't cheat. No,

it's two and a half right now, but I believe for one and a half. Yeah, we have it in one and a half. I know. I know. I know it's locked at one and a half for the purposes of the contest. Next one.

I want you to talk me out of this because I like it. Panthers plus seven and a half at home against Buffalo. We talked about Carolina at home, how they're a different team. Dalton, Bryce Young, I don't think it matters. Carolina's third rushing attack this year, third in rush yards. Buffalo 31st against the run. They are getting their two suspended D-Lineman back. Carolina's D's not terrible.

15th DVOA, eighth against the rush. It is betting against Josh Allen. Josh Allen against bad teams has been money But the seven and a half Like even that's That's like a cheap touchdown late We can't do it I'll take me out of it

I'll take the L here's why The bills lost two games in a row And then had a buy And they have Josh Allen They're going to come off the buy with Josh Allen And lose another game They're going to lose to the Patriots This line should be four and a half

They're going to lose to the Patriots the Falcons and the Panthers. I mean, we're talking about the fact that the line still has some inflation in it. Like we're not giving Carolina enough credit. I agree with all of that.

Seven and a half, though. It's still in this modern NFL era a one score game at seven and a half. I don't know. I might make it one of my picks. I also don't mind the plus three, ten for them. Oh, for the first. Panthers to win out right.

For the actual money line, which we're not doing in these contests. But the case for Buffalo is a couple losses by week, getting the guys back on D. Yes. We're going to show everybody. Our defense is actually back. And that's what my fear is with this is you're like, oh, my God, why do we bet against Josh Hump? The seven-and-a-half is high. They can get rolling, though.

That's the problem. We thought that that might happen in that Atlanta game, but Atlanta really had a great pass rush at home and a very good game plan. and they just ran the ball, ran the ball, ran the ball. Ken Carolina replicate that. Here's the other case for this. They had the Chiefs next week, Buffalo. So is this a Milton Burrell?

Get in, get out. Let's just pull out enough to win. Get in, get out. Let's not do too much. Let's not get anyone hurt. They could be up 14 in the fourth quarter. That's what the seven and a half is huge. Yeah.

All right, mark it down. Cowboys plus three and a half at Denver. All the advanced stats say Dallas is a better. team. Their ninth in DVOA, Denver's 14th. Dallas's offense, top four, second in yards per play. Denver's defense first in yards

per play, which is good, but the question for me is the Cowboys, I just think are going to score every week against whoever, right? Ken Denver match points with them. I think this line's just too high. They get in the hook, I feel like this should be

like Broncos one and a half. I think these teams might be even. I been really impressed by Dallas. As have I. As have I. I think they're well coached. I said out loud on many programs last week that I didn't think that Washington, I had to puff my chest out because it was Dallas week, but it was fraught.

That was a fraught situation. That was our big miss last week, not taking Dallas. That was a big miss. By Sunday, that would have been. That was a big mess. That was one that I bet on. And I loved it. I bet it as well.

So Dallas wins this. If Dallas can somehow win this in Denver, Cardinals next week by week and then they're at Vegas on Monday night football like there's actually a path for them to be a playoff team

but I think they need this game why did they get blown out by the Bears CD Lamb got hurt okay couple coverage breakdowns they just couldn't adjust on the fly quickly enough

they just couldn't why did the Patriots lose to the Raiders first game of the season that's all yeah I'm most wondering with the first three weeks of the year

do we just you know, Green Bay killed the trait. Would that happen now? No. I don't know. I don't think so. All right, Cowboys plus three and a half

we're marking this down. The Bo Knicks thing, he just can't, it takes him two hours to be decent. You're not going to, I don't know the circumstance. There will be a circumstance where I'm comfortable.

They're laying less than a field goal, maybe against, I'm not sure who the opponent has to be. No, look, I asked him to shove it in my face against the Eagles and he did it.

Right. He led them to 18 points in the fourth quarter against the Eagles on the road in Philly. And Dak against a really good Denver defense,

which I think he can throw on. But that's been one of the best four players in the league this year. He can throw on anybody. Cowboys plus three and a half. We'll mark that down. Packers Steelers,

Packers favored by three in Pittsburgh. And normally, you would say, oh, Pittsburgh, Tomlin, home. It's a smash spot. Can I make a Packers case for you? I'm going to listen while I look something up for here real quick.

You seem like you've lost interest in the... No, I'm looking. I thought it was three and a half. No, for our contest, it's three. Yeah. Minus 120. Look at how they price that thing. I know. Sunday night game.

If this was a Sunday 1 p.m. game, I'd be afraid to take Green Bay. Sunday night game, the lights are on. And I do think this team has the lights are on. They have that side to them. DVOA, Green Bay 6, Pittsburgh's 10th. Pittsburgh's defense, 31st against the pass, 31st against first downs, 25th on third down. And if you look at their wins, barely beat the Jets week one. Fields' last great game ever.

Probably ever. They beat the Pats because the Pats turned the ball over five fucking times. fumbled on the goal line and threw a goal line pick. They beat Minnesota by three points in Ireland with Carson Wentz. And they beat Cleveland who sucks. Well, not just that. It was Cleveland coming off their international game with Dylan Gabriel, who, you know, yeah.

All they was, then they lost to Joe Flacco last week. 26th against the run, Green Bay second against the run, their defense. So I don't think they're going to be able to run the ball. So this would have to be an Aaron Rogers beats us game. And granted, going against Green Bay, but this just feels like a square, oh, Stewards, Tomlin and Home, Rogers' revenge game. And it's like, how about this? We thought the Packers were a potential Super Bowl team before the year.

Like, you win this game if you're going to the Super Bowl. That would be the case. I don't have the time to go look and see what it opened at. It was three and a half for quite a bit. of this week. And I thought it was a great Steelers situation. Yeah. The three is not a great number.

I don't love Packers minus three. Yeah. What are you worried about the push? Well, no, I just mean from the Steelers perspective, I like it much better with them, you know, dogfight with the hook. Yeah, but I want to take the Packers. I understand that. I had a case prepared for the Steelers.

with the hook with the hook yes yeah the hook feels pretty vital to me um because like here's the thing that pittsburgh has been unable to address all season long they give up explosives like uh you know like it's pokey and black tony giving out uh you know injury advice before before a trailblazers game i mean they just can't wait to let somebody throw the football down the field And that is one thing for sure that Jordan Love can do. It's one thing for sure that the Packers can do. They could throw the football down the football field. I also, you know, they've definitely been spotty the last few weeks.

There's no question. And they've had like Jacobs, it was 100% Jordan Love. They've, the pace of their, they did that terrible Cleveland game, just terrible. I like the Zag. You know what? I'm feeling a zag. I'm feeling it. You're kidding me.

Like a Sunday night, the Packers. It's a narrative game where we come out of that game. We're like, oh, the Packers, maybe they are a contender. Yeah, because everybody was ready to write off the Packers after they looked so dominant the first two weeks. And then they showed some inconsistency, the Dallas tie, not looking very impressive. The DAC was just unbelievable in that game. The reason they scored 40 points. Yeah, yeah.

So why wouldn't they score 40 points against Pittsburgh? You know, I'm here. I like this. Let's do this. Yeah, I like this. So we're looking at, I think we have our. five then. That was easy.

On a short week, we somehow have five picks. Apologies to the Panthers. They didn't make the cut. All right, House, here we go. Today's Ringer 107. The BS House edition is brought to you by Fanville's Sportsbook. We are one game under 500 for the season.

We are 16 and 17. And we were 0 and 7 in games that could have gone either way or something weird happened in the last three minutes. And then we finally had some luck. on Sunday with the Minnesota Vikings where we had them in a parlay they were what plus seven and a half plus seven and a half

they're down six Eagles get this long played AJ Brown and it's like oh my God they're gonna get a field goal we're gonna get screwed again and they do some wacky time thing where they run out the clock and they don't have to kick the field goal

it was the first time anything's gone our way in a stupid situation like that so that makes me feel good first one we're gonna do your pick The Falcons, just to blow out the Dolphins. Yes, sir. Minus 7 a half at home.

We love the Falcons as a home team. Sure do. We just feel like at this point to be able to bet against Tua and Mike McDaniel, much like watching Victor Wemadiamma right now, a privilege. I mean, we can go X as and O's. We can talk about how dominant the Falcons rush attack has been, how incredible Bijan has been, how destitute the dolphins run defenses,

how the Dolphins' offensive line is an abomination, and the pressure that the Falcons can bring. They can't stop the run. We can do all those things, but we don't really need to. You just have to look at mixed tape, Mike, one time, take a snapshot of that dude at his press conference and be like, I'm betting against that guy. This is the, I wish I wasn't going against Bejohn Robinson Fantasy Week.

Falcons, minus 7 a half. That's our first one. They should be able to hopefully run it up. We like the Falcons' home team. Next one, Texans, minus one and a half at home against 49ers. This is a bet on the Houston. defense in a kitchen sink situation going against Mac Jones and a Niners defense that's just scotch tape, duct tape, and glue and some thumbtacks.

I just want to say, I respect San Francisco. I'm hoping that the football gods look favorably. How about this? They don't need the game. Okay. They're five and two. This is an AFC cross thing. I get it.

There are, that's a knockdown dragout that NFC West. I believe in that Houston defense. I thought what they did Monday night as. their offensive line was just murdering them and Stroud was murdering them and their defense over and over again was like, fine, we'll get the ball back again. Great.

Cowboys plus three and a half against the Broncos is our next one. This is in Denver. This is, we think these teams are pretty even. Dak is a top three or top four guy in the league and if it's a shootout or a back and forth with Bo Nix, I'd like to have my money on Dak. I also think there's backdoor potential

even if they're down 10 late. Sure. Of them scoring again. And we both like this Cowboys team. We do. Yeah. I'm just, you know, once again, in a position where Boonex might shove it right in my face.

Well, as we're doing Ringer 107, the Vikings are down by 21 to the Chargers. And that was a potential playoff, you know, competitor for Dallas to get that six-seat or seven-seat. So if you can shove the Vikings out of there, you get Caleb to self-combust with the bears. It's going to be the Falcons and the Cowboys.

Not even kidding. Yeah. Because Washington's out. And then Packer Steelers. This is a nice Zag for us. Sunday night. Steelers looking too obvious with Tomlin, at home, Pittsburgh,

Aaron Rogers' rejuvenation. But if you go through that Steelers' schedule, the wins and some of the stats, it's pretty grim. We think there's another level to this Packers team. And every week somebody goes up and people are like, whoa, that team.

And I think this is a woe that team for the Packers. I do like it. Packers minus three. on the road Sunday night. Then last one, a little parley. Colts down to minus one and a half as they're blowing out Tennessee.

We got that. Pat's just to win against Cleveland. Only win. Just win by one. We're fine. And then the Ravens in the ultimate kitchen sink game, they cannot go one in six. They have to beat the Bears.

We get to bet against a very shaky Caleb Williams against a bear's defense with some really good advanced stats going against them and more importantly on Lamar Jackson. Well, here's the thing for the Ravens, and I will separately be betting this. This will be my best bet. And I don't really even care if ultimately Lamar doesn't end up playing. I mean, he practiced.

You know, there is the hamstring thing. They are healthy for the first time on offense with Picard at fullback and likely a tight end. And here's the thing for everybody to do when you hear this. Go as fast as you can and buy your Derek. Henry. Their whole run game is a 12 personnel run game where Picard and likely are goddamn dominant. Go get

every Derek Henry total now, because it'll all be seven yards higher. Get the number of touches, you know, attempts, all of it. Get all your Derek Henry now. Anytime touchdown, the whole kit and caboodle, because those prices are going to be

through the roof by Sunday. I love the Ravens to absolutely smash the Bears this week. Ravens win, Pat's win, Colts by minus one and a half over Tennessee, minus 1117. That's our last pick. Texans minus one and a half, Cowboys plus three and a half, Thalcons minus seven, half, Packers, minus three. That is the ringer 107.

It was brought to you by Fandall Sportsbook. Odd subject to change. House, we did it. We just cruised through a fucking shitload of stuff in an hour and a half. I'm proud of us. It's pretty good. I mean, Albady and Bruce thought that was a pretty goddamn good show. I got to get his thoughts later

I'll see you at our illegal poker game today I can't wait let me borrow your contacts all right that's it for the podcast thanks to house thanks to Gahuan Eduardo as well I will be back on Sunday with the Cuzz hopefully the Patriots will be six and two hopefully we won't have any more illegal NBA gambling scandal stuff and I will see you on Sunday day.

Call 88879-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or MDgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 878-8-Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.