The Bill Simmons Podcast - An NBA Scoring Boom, NFL Holiday Picks, 'Landman' Is on Fire, the Return of 'Stranger Things,' and the Future of TV With Kirk Goldsberry, Joe House, Chris Ryan, and Zoe Simmons

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is first joined by Kirk Goldsberry to discuss trends around the NBA, top 10 point guards, and lots more! (2:05). Then, Joe House joins to make their Ringer 107 picks for the week before talking about their top three Thanksgiving dishes (01:18:09). After that, Chris Ryan hops on to talk Philadelphia sports and ‘Landman’ (01:56:41). Finally, Zoe Simmons catches her dad up on ‘Stranger Things’ and other TV shows she’s been watching (02:46:48). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Kirk Goldsberry, Joe House, Chris Ryan, and Zoe Simmons Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Post your job today at linkedin.com/simmonsbill The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Uber Eats. It's winter and you can now get almost anything you need for the coldest months of the year delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a ski slope delivered, but you can get dish slope delivered. Fair weather, no. Shredded cheddar. Yes. Snow Angel, no.

Angel hair pasta. Yes. Uber Eats can get you all that along with the side of garlic bread and creme brule to top it all off. Get almost, almost anything this winter with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See App for details.

The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday. We did Two for the Money. That is a gambling movie from 20 years ago that has aged beautifully as an unintentional comedy classic. Also a pretty good movie, Pacino, McConaughey, and it was me and Chris Ryan and Cousin Sal breaking it down. So I'll just give you a heads up because we don't have another podcast until Sunday. Rewatchables next Monday, it's time.

Rocky 2. It's the last Rocky that we haven't done out of the first four. So we did, I think we did three, four, one, two. And that's probably the right order. I think that's what we did. Anyway, that's coming on Monday. So you have five days to watch that. I have a megapod coming up because this is my last podcast of the week. We're talking NBA with Kurt Goldsbury. We're going to talk NFL picks and some best point cards ever with Joe House. We're going to talk to Chris Ryan about the Philly sports scene and the future of TV. And then last but not least, my daughter's home for Thanksgiving. And Stranger Things is launching soon.

And we're going to talk Stranger Things at the end. She's going to give us a report card. She really just bullied her way into this podcast. I don't know what to tell you. It's all coming up next. We'll take a break and then Pearl Jam. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm.

It's like needing the protection, offensive guard on the football field. but getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure, they're both guards, but you can only trust one to keep your quarterback safe when the game is on the line. So don't settle for just any insurance when you can have State Farm,

like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, Kurt Goldsbury is here. He has a new piece on the ringer.com today. We're going to nerd it up. I have, I want to talk advanced metrics with you and a whole bunch of things. I asked you to come up with a couple trends, things you're looking at, things that have jumped out from a basketball slash nerd numbers standpoint.

There's been some good nerd numbers to share. can't wait to go through them. What's your number one? Well, I think the biggest one, Bill, is that scoring is way up in the NBA. So we're seeing scoring numbers. It's great to talk to you about this because we haven't seen scoring numbers like this since the 1960s before the three-point line existed. NBA teams are averaging 117 points per game. Those are crazy numbers up from last year, but definitely up from anywhere this century. I saw I was looking at some of the assist numbers. There was multiple teams just averaging 29-30 assists a game, which I thought was kind of exciting.

So you mentioned in the early 60s. And I remember debunking the Oscar Robertson, triple-double stuff from my book, because just the way they played back then, they were just kind of run up and down and take shots and nobody could make a shot back then the way they could now. There's a bunch of reasons why scoring's up. I'm going to throw a couple at you.

I didn't know you're going to bend this up, but I'm ready. The fact that Biggs can all shoot for the most part, Right. We have your occasional Nimi Keda or DeAndre Aiton kind of outlier, old school center, who's just kind of around the room. But for the most part, we have these bigs, these stretch fives and just more talented bigs. That's one. The pace is up, I think that's too. The pressure, Phoenix, you wrote about in your piece today, how Phoenix, that's one of the reasons they've been a bit of unlock their season, like these teams that are just using 10, 11, 12 guys and trying to pressure the ball 94 feet, which is. Indiana started last year, and now I feel like it's a trend, but I also think a big part of that is how much talent we have, that teams can go 10, 11, 12 deep now and have the luxury of doing that.

So what other than those, are there any other factors you see? Yeah, like, so in general, like when you look at it long term, the shot selection revolution is the biggest reason, just every possession is more efficient, but when we look at just what's happened since last year, and we have like a three and a half, four point a game square. scoring uptick, unfortunately, the biggest thing is fouls and free throws. Oh, interesting. Yes. Unfortunately, almost all of the scoring increase is explained by a 3.1 per game free throw

made increase for each team in every game. So that just threw away all my other reasons? No, I mean, if you look in at, say, how do we get here? Like, one of the crazy stats I was looking up is the 73 win Warriors, one of the greatest teams you and I have ever seen had an offensive rating of 113.5. That would rank 22nd now. We've gotten a lot better at scoring in the NBA. That team would slot below the awful LA Clippers offense right now. So that just tells me that over 10 years, Bill, the average NBA offense is just shooting smarter shots. There's more talent, as you describe. But when we look

at just, why are we so much higher than last year? We're setting records for free throws. And specifically, certain types of players are drawing a lot more fouls and going to the line more than ever before. And specifically, Luca Donchett just like epitomizes this trend. I don't know if you were at the Lakers Spurs game earlier this year at Crypto. But yeah, Luca is the epitome. He shot less than nine free throws per game last year. He's at 12 and a half this year. He's drawing over nine fouls per game himself, which is the highest.

number we've ever seen in the player tracking era. Do you think that's because the league rigs the league for the Lakers, or are there other reasons? I think there's a few reasons. I think the league rigs the league for the Lakers, which is hard to say. So thank you for making sense. Extra six free throw attempts per year, no matter who's on the team. Just factor that in. This is one thing Spurs fans and Celtics fans can clearly agree on.

But two things are happening. I want Luca is one of the smartest, hardest, hardest players to guard. in the league. Like, no disrespect to Luca Donchich. He does work the rest. We all know that, but that's not new. I think one of the other trends we're talking about, you sort of alluded it to it with the sons is teams are playing handsier, more physical defense for longer stretches of the

court and throwing more and more guys out there. So I think because of what Rick Carlisle started in the playoffs last year, I think teams are just being handsier. Yeah. But that said, here's a stat for you, dude. This year, there's been 14 instances of a single player drawing 12 or more fouls. That's fouling out two guys on the other team, by the way. Last season, there was only 23 instances of that all year.

Luke has four of those this year. He never did that once last year. So we're starting to see single guys, like, drawing foul. So I do think the foul baiting is a part of this, too, Bill. Fowl baiting. I don't think anything with the word baiting in it. Last year, the top seven teams in free throw attempts were all between 23.3 and 23. Memphis led the way at 23.3.

By the way, I did not look this up until you just mentioned it. This year, we have the, hold on, I'm going to get this right. This year we have Orlando at 30.7. Jesus, how is this possible? We have 25 teams shooting at least 23.5 free throws per game. So last year we had seven. We're at 23. That's it.

We have four teams 28 and above, and we have 12 teams 26 and above. So there's your scoring. There's your scoring. I mean, I brought up that game in L.A. for a reason that had 66 foul calls, 84 free throws.

The game lasted two hours and 54 minutes. oh my god so that's it is a big it's the best place to score on the free throw in the basketball game is the free throw line according to d smith so yeah like that explains the general scoring uptick since last year is this and like one of the other stats i had in the piece was there were just seven teams that committed over 20 fouls per game last year uh this year 29 teams are doing that so everybody's doing that and my question to you bill is are these teams suddenly playing more handsy defense or is the rules around contact allowances sort of evolving once again? I think it's pie chart. I would have everybody has more good players they can throw out there and they're telling people to pick up full court, be more physical. It's noticeable when you watch all the different games.

I remember Doc telling me a couple years ago with the Pacers before we even kind of noticed what they were doing. He was like, I just say these guards, They picked teams up for 94 feet, and they're like a pain in the ass to play. And I'm like, man, I never really noticed that. And then I look for it. And I was like, oh, shit. Like, this is really annoying.

I would imagine if you're an opposing point card. But now you see, like, it feels like half the league's doing it. I do wonder, though, do we also have with these, now that we're playing with centers and bigger guys and offensive rebounds, teams like Houston, Detroit. Does that also help with the free throw rate too? I don't know. Do you really think like the leagues like you got to call this differently, call more fouls? Well, I don't know if that's- Coaches about it.

And I think what you just said about the Indiana Guards bears repeating. Because I talked to one coach, he's like, yeah, every year we all watch the finals. It's the first time that all the teams coaches sort of watch basketball almost leisurely. Everybody can watch the finals, it's different two teams. And he said, yeah, like everybody saw what Carlisle was doing. And I think a lot of people did import that into their strategy. this season. So I think that's fair. The other thing people were telling me is like the league sent around a bunch of points of emphases about, you know, the high five foul that you might

have heard about, a shooting, a foul in a three-point shooter, certain rules around driving offensive players and how they're going to be called. And some people said, yeah, that's really what this is too. But they've tightened it up and in favor of the offense, in favor of three-point shooters, and in favor of driving players. So I think that explains. it's both like a tactical adjustment league wide but also the league with these new points of emphasis. Also more good players. More guys that are just harder to guard. Yeah. We're the most like trying to do the Ringer 100 last week or a week and a half ago was impossible. I couldn't believe like some of the guys that were in the 50s. These are guys

that would have been in the 30s, you know, 10 years ago. So you watch every team. I was watching Sacramento and overtime last night against Minnesota. Minnesota yet again, blow another lead. I don't, at what point do we start kind of side-eyeing Chris Finch with all this? Like, how many terrible last-minute collapses can you have? But in the end of the game, all of a sudden the Kings are going to DeRosen, who's an afterthought, who is probably available for 20 teams if anybody wants to trade for him. And he's getting really hard buckets in overtime. And it's like this didn't exist 10 years ago. Nobody just had DeMar de Rosen sitting over there, like ready to score in overtime crunch time. Yeah. And I'm thinking about in terms of

San Antonio, the two new guards when we were doing our ringer 100 rankings. They're going to say, okay, where's Dylan Harper go? He's on here now. Where's Stefan Castle? He's jumping up way up here. And both of those guys put a lot of pressure on the defense as driving players. I think these younger players are playing more like Shea, who also needs to be mentioned. He's a very hard player to defend legally without fouling. And he knows that. And he gets his way to the free throw line. So I think it's just, it's a trend. that has a lot of explanations. But it sort of leads into the second trend

I wanted to bring you. Can I say one thing on that really quick? Yeah. I always think a good way to look at this from a talent standpoint is like four-year clusters of drafts. When you think like when the league was struggling, like 05 is a good example, that 0405-06 range before like the LeBron class really ascended.

The draft's just a 99-0-0-0-1-2. We just didn't have enough good guys coming out of those drafts for a variety of reasons, right? And then as those guys round into their mid-20s and are supposed to be like the next wave of all-M-B-A guys, we just didn't have them in the same way. And now I think what we're looking at this, these 2020s guys, even 2020, the COVID draft, that still had Edwards and it had Maxie and it had Halliburton. Right. And it had Desmond Bain. And you go through it and it's like, shit. this is a pretty good draft, you know?

And I think last year's draft, especially. Like, you just inject all of these young guys, these first year players in the league who can play. Like, we have 12 guys who can play 25 minutes right now. And stylistically, they're really unique, too. And I think that's the most underrated part about how the league changes over time. It's like, we're talking about Chris Paul retiring this week. Well, he's taking the elbow jumper with him.

He's taking the pull up with him. Right. You're talking about Demar. he's taking that pull up with him too. Now it's all floaters and drives and guys finishing at the rack and pulling up for three and stepbacks. The older guys take stuff out when they leave with them

and the young guys import new stuff. And I think that's one of the coolest ways to think about this too, whether it's your little four-year package of drafts or whatever. These generations change the game with style too. Yeah, Harper's got a move that I don't know if I've fully said,

seen before, that baseline move. I've talked about it on a previous pod, but he kind of goes, like a little herky jerky, goes baseline and then can spin either way, but can spin on the baseline or spin toward the paint. Yeah. And it's clearly going to become one of his signature moves. But he does, man, I'm really, you know, he got hurt. He missed a couple games. But even if you look at the net ratings, his net rating is a complete outlier compared to like all the other guys in that list. We'll talk about in a second. What's your second trend? Well, it's related. It's the, the rise of the full court press. So, I think if you're watching the NBA this year, you're seeing everybody act like Rick Carlisle

and you're seeing everybody pick up on the other, on the defensive back court. And the numbers really bear this out too, Bill. We're seeing over 40 possessions in an average game when teams are picking up ball handlers behind that mid-court stripe. That's up from 33 last season. That's up from 26, two years ago. And this stat has more than doubled in the 2020. So what we're seeing, you know, last year was maybe, or last decade was really about like a shot selection revolution.

Here we're starting to see defensive responses to some of this. And that's one of the biggest trends I'm seeing sort of in the 2020s is like, we're going to pick up your dude as soon as you inbound the ball and make it hard for you to get across and sort of initiate early offense. You know, one of my favorite writers, a guy named Bill Simmons wrote a huge basketball. ball book once upon a time and one of the chapters I did was trying to create the perfect team of all the guys in history right so I did that in 2009 2010 it wasn't just like these are the best 12 players ever these are the 12 guys that if we're trying to beat the aliens how would we do what kind of looks would we have would we have big ball small ball shooting lineup and one of the things that really had was that I was really excited about was like the killer press like five guys for an awesome

press. And I wrote, I'm borrowing this idea from Rick Petino, who told Malcolm Gladwell that if you ever coached the NBA again, he would pick five of his bench guys to practice exclusively on a full core press, then play them once a half for four or five minutes at a time. Their sole purpose would be to create havoc, wear opponents down, exploit opposing bench guys, and shift momentum. It would be like five guys prowling around like cheetahs. So I picked for this side of my wine sour team. And this is 2010. Duncan, LeBron, Pippen, 2009, Dwayne Wade, and 2008, Chris Paul. And it's just like, you guys are all playing together for four minutes. Go get us the ball. Now, if you were going to do that with the guys we have from the last 15 years,

I think Kauai would have to probably be in early, like mid-2010s, Kauai would probably have to be out there because he's the all-time, let me go take that ball. So maybe you would have, maybe you'd have LeBron Pippin and Kauai then Chris Paul and then maybe Duncan but this idea has been sitting there forever what took the league so long to realize that nobody wants to dribble up against a press

at any level of basketball by the way yeah it's annoying and it's I think it tires these guys out too it's like if you watch Hardin he takes his breaks like bringing the ball up he's like all right let me catch my breath and you're just denying them that that little sort of break

in between rounds of action if you will. But no team's doing it more than the Blazers. And then your team, the Celtics, are right there too. And if you have a lot of good defensive-minded guards and you're young, why not? Like you're saying, like nobody wants to see this. And in an era where everybody wants to get into early offense, we've all learned that that's where the efficient part of the shot clock is, slowing them down and taking that away, making them sort of toil until they're 16 or 17 on the shot clock and you hear players starting to say that too i just don't want to make it easy like why should i just let you walk it up um if you look at teams which aren't doing it one team sticks

out which is the lakers and that sort of makes sense because their guards are not great defensive minded stars they didn't really have traditional guards right yeah lucca and austin reves aren't going to do this but if you have derrick white or if you have shadd and drew holiday and you have good depth behind them why don't you just do this be these pests in the back court and slow down your opponent. Well, you had that in your column today, the ultimate example of this is the Sons. The Sons.

They're scrappy. They're trying to basically tilt the seesaw a little bit. They're using a bunch of people, and they're just, and they have Dylan Brooks as the focal point of all of it. And they're like, we're just going to be super fucking annoying to play against. You're not going to enjoy the experience the entire time.

They played, when they played Houston, and Brooks was just in rare form. No Durant, sadly. But, you know, Yeah, they just, they're not as talented. They had, Houston's been awesome all year, but Phoenix just scrapping and scratching. And it's just a complete opposite of the team we saw in Austin in February. Oh, my God.

This team that wanted no part of playing together and didn't really care about pressure or any of that stuff. What was your third trend? Oh, my third trend. I love the suns, though. I have the East, and I want to hear what you say, because you're the historian here. is the is the is the 2025-26 eastern conference the most open conference we've had in a decade or two for like who you could see in the finals i don't even know who your favorite is right obviously we talk about the western conference right now if we talk about the east and west in the 2010s

we're talking about warriors and calves every year the spurs are in there or there's clear favorites the the east is so wide open i think at the beginning of the the year, hey, it's the Knicks and the Cavs. And if you look at Fandul, they still have the Cavs. It's still the Cavs. We haven't seen the Cavs play together all year. They had all of their guys together for more than one game in a row. But we did see the Cavs play in the playoffs last year, Bill. No, we did. We didn't. Garland was hurt, though. It was. But if that's your, if that's your favorite, I'm fine with that. I just think there's a wide openness to the Eastern conference that's very exciting and you have teams like Detroit and Toronto and Miami who are

threatening to sort of crash that party and you could tell me the Hawks are in that group too but I just you look at the West you're like okay this is the thunder unless the nuggets have a postseason run of the ages but the East just seems like it's the most wide open that I can remember any conference since I've been covering the league yeah I'm going to go the one that jumped into my head as you were laying that out was 07 because that's the weirdest team that made a finals, the 07 Cavaliers, right? Oh, yeah.

So that had, that was, we thought Detroit was going to make it. That was kind of the tail end of their run, even though they made it last year. They were 53 wins that year. I don't, either they lost, what, did they lose Wallace? I'm just going to check this really fast. Did they lose Ben Wallace that year? They did.

So they were kind of like every, we were kind of looking for, is there anybody else? It wasn't Miami. Miami had that kind of year after the title year. Toronto 147. LeBron 150, basically by himself. He had nobody on that team. The Bulls won 49. But that was one of those years where we're like, is there,

and meanwhile, all the action was in the West. This year, the three best teams are in the West. Right? It's like unassailable. Those are the three best teams. I think Cleveland has a chance out of everybody we have in these to climb up, but you mentioned, I think Detroit's a little closer to that conversation

than you gave them credit for. They're clearly three and there might even be two. Atlanta is the wildcard to me because of some of the advanced stats with the non-trade lineups. I think that they have one of those lineups is like one of the best lineups in the league, the one with Porzingis

and the three long guys and Alexander Walker. I'm not counting out of Orlando yet. Right. That was one of the things I was going to talk about with you. When you look at the five-man lineups, Orlando's best five guys,

the whole reason they made that trade, those guys are plus 19.7 when they all play together. Oh, really? With the Bain and the, and then the two young, or the, Bunkcaro and Wagner, Wendell, yeah.

So that tells me there's room with bench stuff, or it tells me their bench is terrible or maybe both. But Atlanta's best five, no tray is plus 14.8. And I think that means something because Atlanta has the trade possibility if they wanted to get nuts and trade them. They also had that giant trade exception if they wanted to just add one more bench guy.

But I think they have the most room to kind of maneuver with the roster they have. If they, Detroit, everybody's throwing the marketing trade. I personally would not fuck with Detroit. I wouldn't do it. Zach and I talked about it Thursday, we used the what would San Presti do rule. And we both agreed San Presti would not do. anything. Right. No, he would have traded with Joe Dumars to elevate his draft position for next year, which is looking like an incredible move by Ansi in the Hawks front office. Right. I love the

thing. They have that crazy trade chip if they want to, if they want to use it. They have this New Orleans pick that is going to be top six. And again, if we're doing what would Presti do, the move is to keep that pick and get a Chet Holmgren type player on your team next year and be ready to go. And I love the Hawks, not just this year, but, but, but, but, you're doing, but more so deep into the future. I mean, Jalen Johnson is great. Dyson Daniels, like, they have such an identity now. But Detroit's the one.

There's some Risa Shee momentum. I don't know if you've been following. It's a momentum with them. Reeses Shea Reed Shepherd. Still a conversation in many practice facilities. But I want to push back on something. I love the Detroit Pistons. I thought they should have beat the Knicks in the playoffs last year.

You know, no disrespect to the Knicks. There was some tight calls there. I feel like Detroit was still learning how to win. They had this weird Malik Beasley thing, which in retrospect is, was very distracting. But they're 15 and 2, man. And they look great protecting the paint and they look good, attacking the paint. They have this Cunningham, Duren, pick and roll thing that is emerging as one of the most reliable two-man games in the Eastern Conference. The shooting is a little questionable.

Duncan Robinson is filling that role nicely, but still beyond Duncan, if Tobias Harris isn't playing a lot. But I love Detroit. I think they deserve to be in the Knicks' Cavs conversation. If I had to elevate one team, it's definitely Detroit, and I'll take the 15 and two record as Exhibit A there.

Yeah, I would have those three. I think Detroit has officially moved into the conversation with the other two now. I would still take Cleveland. And then Orlando is the wild card And then Atlanta is the wild wild card Other than that Milwaukee being a playing team

But having Janus come back For the last 45 games of the year And still having to see them In a one game Or in a 2-7, something like that I just don't want to see Janus in a playoff series Especially like with how Germany is that Now they're a little under 500 now

And the longer he goes out Their lineups are really All the stuff is really bad without him Like that I think I think the lineup they played the most without Yannis was like minus 19 or something. But in eye test-wise, it's like, ugh. And that, you know, the Coosman roller coaster stuff. Let's, we'll take a quick break and then going to come back and throw some other stuff at you.

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by a Fanduel. This Thanksgiving Fanduel introducing a brand new way to parlay together. Let's parlay together, everybody. It's called Pass the Leg. Here's how it works. Start a group, add your pick, then pass it to your friends so they can add theirs. When everyone's done, each look at the parlay with your own funds. On top, everyone gets a 50% profit boost to use on their bill.

In Missouri, get ready because Fandul is going live on December 1st. Fanduel, play your game. You must be 21 plus President Select States or 18 plus and President D.C. Kentucky, Wyoming, opt and required bonus issued as non-drawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration of max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. Game problem, call 100 gamble or visit RG dash help.com. 8887-8-7-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

This episode is brought to by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over one billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue, so you can stop.

wasting budget on the wrong audience. That's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B return and ad spend on all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spent $250 in your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com slash Simmons Bill. Terms and conditions apply. All right, any other trends before we keep going? Well, I got, you want one. The nerds are really talking about this one, which is picks are in decline. So when you and I were growing up, it was dump it down to McHale or Jabbar and the post game was the bread and butter action of pro basketball. You know, the Dan Tony sons obviously made it a pick and roll game. But here we are in 2025. And the epicenter of this movement is in

Miami. I don't know if you're following. Oh, I sure am. I hate that I like watching them. Oh, it's electric to watch. Yeah, they're really fun to watch. I hate myself. But it's also unprecedented. They're setting fewer screens than any team has in decades in the player tracking era by a wide margin. They're just saying, let's move the ball quickly and see if we can find a driving gap and attack it before anybody's ready set on defense. So it is, it's fun to watch.

People are comparing it. It's like a run and shoot football offense. That's a great analogy. They're just going. They're trying to just get downhill and catch people when they're backpedaling. Seems to be their entire strategy, and it works. Yeah, they're number one in pace. They're setting the fewest picks in the league,

and they're scoring by far more points per game, even though they're number 12 in offensive efficiency. But it's a brand new look. I think last year, at a bio set 27 picks per game, Bill, if you want to drill down on a player level. He's said eight picks a game this year. They're just doing something completely different, and they've they've gotten off to a really good start with a 12th ranked offense without great

offensive personnel remember tyler harrow hasn't played much at all bam adabio's missed time and they're number 12 on offense and by the way their team is built for defense they're a top five defense if harrow comes back and he fits into this which why wouldn't he and if adabio is regularly available i expect them to be flirting with the top 10 offense with this new look the defense is great, will teams around the NBA start to copy this just like they copied elements of the Spurs or Dantone's systems? That's what the nerds are talking. Wow. Didn't realize the nerds that was that much scuttle above for that. Can I ask you, I don't think Miami should do this trade. So I'm going to preface that right now. So don't aggregate this because this is a no for

Miami. I'm just talking about it as a conception. Because I think Sabonis is available on the Kings. And I was just wondering, would it be more fun to watch Subbonus the way Miami is playing the BAM out of bio in this offense with what they're trying to do? It's just, my point is, I've always wanted to see Sabonis in an offense like this where you're just going and he's just rebounding.

And I always thought he was underrated as like a guy on the move. And he kind of gets pigeonholed with whoever the fuck is on the Kings every year where everybody stands around. There's ball stoppers everywhere, but he can dribble past and shoot. I mean, I love Bamatabio, but I think, yeah, the passing and the movement that they're trying to do there in Miami, he would fit in. It can do it too, obviously. Yeah, but it's just like, I wish it's too bad that's not a fair trade because it would be fun to see him on that team. Well, we'll see what they are once they get Harrow in there and out of bio in there.

I mean, they, I don't know. I know we all respect Eric Spolstra. You're afraid of the Miami heat. because they've scarred you for years. They're Michael Myers. You think they're dead. And then there's all of a sudden there's another movie coming out. It's like, I thought he blew up in a fire.

He's back. His mass burned. I'll compare him to Greg Popovich because he's played many different ways, Eric Spolstra. Now, he's been in the league so long. And one of the signs of a great coach, he doesn't get fired from the place he's been coaching. But he's sort of overseen these different motifs like,

obviously starting with the heatles, but then moving on with the Drogich era, the heat culture, Butler era, and now this, like he plays different ways, and I really respect that about him.

And this is just one of the more innovative things we're seeing in the NBA this season. Here's what does it make a ton of sense, and I think it's bad for them long term. They just don't have the horses. They don't have a top 25 player. I had BAM at 27.

the hero and powell they're getting a great power year great great comeback hawkes year hero's coming back but i think if you're actually going to think about like can they make the finals i think it's really hard to make it if you don't have a top 25 guy so you would i don't know you it would have to be one of the weirdest seasons in the history of the league can i give you you mentioned that pace thing miami being first in pace what were the odds on that in august like a

100 to 1? No, I mean, there was some talk about this, this, this Grizzlies consultant coming over and talking to Spoe about this newfangled offense, but you'd have to be really deep in discord. First? To predict that Miami Heat would be, no, nobody saw this coming. Clippers are 29th, which fits the eye test. The 30th team, do you know who's 30th? Is it your team?

It's my team. Yeah. I thought before the year, they were going to be running gun, gunning threes. going like, kind of like just trying to cause chaos. They've done the opposite. And weirdly, it's kind of worked. Like, they have a winning record. Now, granted, they've had a little bit of schedule look.

Like, they played Orlando the other day and Orlando was missing everybody. But, you know, their defensive rating is a little higher than I thought. I think they're, they might be, what are they fifth? Yeah, their fifth in defensive rating. Their third and three points attempted. Their last in free throws attempted and they're last in pace. And it matches what you watch game to game.

I don't know what this team is. White hasn't had a good year at all. They have like three. Jalen's been excellent. And then Nimi has been like the most underrated guy in the league. Yeah. And he got, he's sprained his ankle. I'm a multiple text threads about, oh my God, we can't lose Kada.

Like this is things Celtics fans are texting each other. So that's been weird. I have a couple offensive ratings. things for you. So Houston is first. Yeah. Which is bonkers. They're 30th and three points attempted. Yes. First and rebounds by a wide margin. And they basically just flipped everything we thought basketball was as we headed into the mid-2020s. It's like spacing, shooting, switchability on defense. It's like, nope. Here's this giant team where we're really good at shooting twos and we're going to crash the boards and we're going to have the number of offense this way.

Can you make any sense of this? Yeah, I looked into it for the column last week, and it's remarkable. We forgot about rebounding, I think, generally, is a fundamentally important part of the sport. And Stephen Adams and Alper and Sagoon are here to remind us, dude. I think, if I'm not mistaken, Bill Simmons, this year's Houston Rockets team is on pace to set the record for offensive rebounding percentage by recovering over 40% of their own missed shots. so yeah they're not shooting threes but when they miss the defensive stop hasn't happened yet uh and a lot of those second chance points you know those second chances are among the most efficient options you can have as an offense and they just have more of them than anybody we've

ever seen um credit to stephen adams but also shangoon and just one of the things when van fleet got hurt is oh yeah they put ahman thompson in a point guard. And by the way, I got in trouble by saying he's not a point guard. He identifies as a point guard. He has his whole life. But the larger point is, stop it. He's not a point guard. He's a guard that dribbles the ball up and you can run stuff through him. He's not a point card. Chris Paul is a point card. I got corrected sitting next to some Rockets coach. But don't say that about him. Stop. They can settle down. But one of the things when Van Fleet went down is like, okay, now every dude in this lineup is a rebounder. Right. And so Durant is one of the tallest threes when they're playing double bigs that you'll ever see in this league. And then you have, you know, people like Tauris and guys like Jabari, Jabari, Amman Thompson, who are incredible rebounders. So it is one of the more fascinating pathways we've seen to the number one offense in a very long time. When Joe Missoula had figured out the math, hey, what if we just shot more threes than everybody else? It was kind of this sort of cliche way to get there.

What I love about this Rockets team is they are reminding us that you can get there with just brute force inside and grabbing rebounds from your opponents. Were you and I doing the podcast where we talked about Reed Shepard and whether the van, we did that one, right? And I just think it's worked out as it's a 10 out if you're a Rockets fan for like, all right, how am I feeling heading into Thanksgiving about Reed Shepard getting some of these. Van Fleet Minutes. He looks way more like Mark Price, the Brent Price. So if you're doing the Price Brothers Seesaw, which I think is an important way to look at him. He is, looks like Mark Price is doppelganger. I thought Friday was one of the games of the year. It was NBA Cup, whatever. It was more like a let's size each other up. Denver didn't have all their guys. Houston should have won the game. It felt like in Denver just did what they usually do

sometimes with Joker. We're like, yeah. Of course, they lost the next night because it was like, it really was like a high level playoff game. But I also thought it was a good game for Houston because I think I think it showed them like Shepard can play in these games now. We can get 20 to 25 out of him. All of our guys

kind of make sense against this Denver team and if you're going to beat Denver with bigger guys and length and Yokic is going to get what he's going to get. Shengun was the one X factor. He wasn't good. Yeah. And was that I'm playing my, you know, the guy

always got compared to and I just had a bad game or is there something more there? I don't know. But those three teams, and you alluded to this earlier, those are the three best teams in the NBA, right? We have Houston, we have Denver and we have OKC. They're OECC levitating over both of them. Well, that's my last trend, by the way. But, dude, I think anybody who says all these teams are playing the same, just watch those three teams. It couldn't be more different. It couldn't be more different. And, you know, you and I have to do this every time. this year it feels like but this time of year is like this is awesome i love watching the rockets

play the nuggets or the nuggets play the thunder i just pray everybody's healthy um yeah but i do want to shout out i may adoka ben solvin that staff for finding efficient offense in a way that that people haven't found it and it's a little bit like what's going on in miami there are these these these cool stylistic trends that are finding success uh in the nbaa yeah there's some there's a couple good games tomorrow night and the most interesting one to me and this ties into Houston and a team I wanted to talk about quick

I know you're going to talk about okay see in a second but Houston Golden State Golden State that you know they've had some injuries they're not going to have their whole team Golden State's 21st offensive rating with the team they have

if they're not going to be better offensively like to me Golden State their record and they can point to a whole bunch of things but they're basically going to be on 500 team conceptually I'm worried for as you know I love curry I'm really worried about this team because I don't think they're big enough and I think they kind of know they're not big enough but I think where the league is gone even where it was in 2010 years ago 2015 even that year they

had Bogit they had the ability to bring in somebody with some size I I just think when they're playing these like steamin Adams and shangoon together or they're playing in Portland, where Portland can give you cling in, and then all of a sudden, Rob Williams is back. They just can't match up with these teams. They can't rebound. They give up too many offensive rebounds, and they don't get second chance points.

So everything, it's like one of those, it's like one of those end of Brady's Patriots career, Patriots teams where everything had to be absolutely perfect just to get a drive. And if one guy dropped a pass or a pass got tipped, you're just going, the puner is coming in. Golden State, like everything has to be perfect. Curry has to be awesome.

Butler has to be incredible. And it's just not easy enough for them. And I really think they need to make a trade. And Horford needs to be available. I say them in the Clippers. He's old. He's a 50-game-year guy who doesn't rebound anymore. He's not going to solve this.

I call them in the Clippers the Danny Glover lethal weapon teams, dude. They're too old for this shit. Like this is a league that's been dominated. And you've written about this better than anybody for a generation. this is a 20-something man's league for the most part you can you can find exceptions to that but look at okay c man um look at the the best teams and you're going to get pushed around and it's just like especially once you're on the wrong side of 34 35 it's somebody else is in better shape than you somebody else is hungrier than you there's more wear and tear

you're not recovering for the third game in four nights there's a trade i think they can make I float this at you? Yeah. It can't happen until mid-January. Obviously, Coming is involved. Yeah. Why does Gafford have to be on Dallas? Dallas has too many bigs.

If you're the, what do they call it, the interim GM of the Dallas Madvers, I guess is Michael Finley, you have to look at your front line and be like, we have too many guys up here. They have the second defensive rated. They're number two, and their 30th in offense. And it adds up when you watch them

because they don't have a point card. They finally at least realized how to that Cooper flag how to actually try to grow his career instead of ruin it. Yeah. But what if it was comminga to Chicago,

Kobe White to Dallas, and then Gafford and expiring to Golden State? Does anyone have to throw a pick into that trade? Because the moment White came back to Chicago it kind of screwed them up. I'm not positive they need them.

And I actually think they probably need another wing and more explosiveness and Kobe White's going to be a free agent. Do you want to pay Kobe White if you're Chicago and you already just paid Giddy? There's some sort of ring around a rosy trade with that. But I like the idea of Kobe White in Dallas who desperately needs somebody like him.

And then Gafford to Golden State, if they could turn Caminga and they Gaffert somehow. I'm not going to say they're going to make the finals, but I think that at least gives them a puncher's chance to win a couple rounds. Yeah, they've been at their best. I remember Looney's not there anymore. he was there forever.

They don't have that traditional five man with all due respect to post. I like it. Kaminga, obviously, it's not clicking. It's as awkward as it's ever been.

But they can't play him and Jemann and Butler together. It doesn't work if those are three of your guys. You're not, you're just not going to rebound well enough. And the Dallas point, like Dallas needs to start moving. They're going to be really active at this deadline

or are they're going to have some disappointed fans because they have too many pieces. to move around. And they need to start looking at the future around Cooper and Lively, in my opinion. Well, Lively, they just said, has hurt even longer now. So I don't know if that affects you're thinking at all. No, it doesn't. I think we'll see. I think it's a foot thing, which is, as you know, is you got to be really careful with those. But assuming he's healthy, those are two pretty great building blocks for a rebuild. If you have Cooper Flag and a relatively healthy, Derek Lively, that's a pretty fast rebuild. I think a lot of you,

of teams in league would kill to have that as your starting point. But everything else should be on the table. PJ, Kyrie, AD is obviously already being floated out there. But this is a team that needs to get young fast and get a return on some of these players that aren't in that aging, sort of that part of their aging curve as soon as possible. I'm not ready to throw away this season yet or from Dallas. because I think they have I like a lot of their players

they missed on D-Lo I tried to warn everybody and then Kyrie got mad at me sorry if they had somebody who could have the ball and create shots and actually care about

other guys in the team and try to set them up and things like that I think that only helps flag the only thing I care about is how do we help flag well step one get him a guard

who thinks about other players in the team and can create stuff. That's step one. Step two is how do you get rid of this weird log jam you have, especially with Davis coming back, where you have to play flag basically as a two or a three. So you have too many big guys. Trade one of the big guys for a guard. Like this is a fucking layup. Build around Lava. You're not going to be able to trade Anthony Davis. He's not going anywhere. Nobody's training for him. That trade doesn't exist. It's not going to happen until this summer. He's going to be on your team this year. So maybe you could try to make a run and try to get a playing team because some of these West teams are bad.

you know, and they're not that far out of it. What's their, they're five and 14, dude. I mean, five and 14, but the, the 10 seed is six and 12. That's true. And that's Memphis. And that's what the John Moran thing going, couldn't be going worse. Yeah. But could they leapfrog, Sacramento, Quippers, Utah, Memphis, Portland.

Like, I think they could be a ninth seed. I would try to be thinking now how to make the team better. That's interesting. And they have Davis. Davis is, I don't know what version of him we're getting when he comes. back. But Davis, when he's healthy, is the top 20 player in the league. That's right, when he's healthy. So I don't know. I wouldn't punt on this season if I was Dallas. It's compelling. I think they got to start the rebuild. But what they don't have. They couldn't do that

comminga trade for another month or a month and a half because you can't do it until January 15th. So maybe it'll be too late by then. Well, and the other thing to watch with Dallas is they do have a wounded front office to be to put it mildly. Are they going to let Michael Finlay or, you know, you know, an interim GM coming in. I mean, intellectually wounded or just wounded? Just wounded. I mean, they lost their leader. So I later.

Jason Kidd didn't know about the trade. I do. Hey. He had no idea. Blindsided. Nobody knew. Dumont didn't know. It was Nico, his solo shooter.

He was JFK on the sixth floor. Just acted alone. CAA, not involved. Ridiculous. But do they want to bring in another executive to manage this rebuild around Cooper flag. I'm right here. I'll move to Dallas. I'm throwing my hat in the ring. It's time. You hear that, folks. Ready to do it. I'll leave the ringer. Don't leave the ringer. I'll turn it over to Gahow and Eduardo.

There you go. Now, the Mavericks, that's a great job. They're fans. I will say the fans, I get it. The most traumatizing sports trade ever, but the fans have to move forward now. Flag's really good. He's not even 19 yet. He's finishing games. They're running place. for him in crunch time. He's an awesome additive player. There's good pieces here. I don't think they're out of the playoff race. And I think Nico's gone.

They did that. I'd be a little worried about the Jason Kidd. I'm not positive if he's whether he wants to coach or whether he wants to coach this team. I have no idea. But Davis is going to be in the team. There's no Davis trade. You're not getting four first round picks for him.

It's not happening. Who's the team? I don't know. I'm not trading for him off on Detroit. I'm changing my identity if I get him. I don't want to do that. I won 13 straight games. I was watching Phoenix without Mark Williams the other day,

and that was one that crossed my mind. Oh. Is because of the Kentucky connection with Devin Booker. Now, I haven't done the research on, you know, the salaries and that. But I was just like, oh, yeah, the Phoenix might be a good place for him to land. But I don't know. If I was in a front office, my job would be to bring to the general manager all the risk associated with the move

and Anthony Davis is nothing if not human risk and signing up for two years of Anthony Davis at a big number is just a lot of risk for one of these teams. If you were the Knicks and Davis for Towns

as the focal point of something was on the table who hangs up faster? I think the Mavs are staying on the phone because they just they want to hear what they're looking to move on with their lives. Also, Towns is kind of a better fit for this team to have with these multiple centers than at least he could be on the outside stretching the floor versus.

And he's younger. I mean, he's younger player. Can you do your OKC thing quick before I'm going to bring House in with us? Well, this involves Joe House's team too. I wanted to ask the sports guy this question. Are we more likely to see historically great NBA record this season or a historically bad NBA record this season. I've been on this regular season win record for the last month. And the odds have been dropping. I think what was it plus 700 or something on Fandua? Yeah. For them to do it.

Oh, House is here. House, are you recording? I am, of course. Remember your friend Kurt Goldsbury? One of my favorites. The OGKG, baby. Let's go. The little tickets. OKC is plus 880 to break the wins record on Fanduel. 24 plus wins, plus 880. Is that more realistic to you than the Wizards breaking the loss record? If you had to pick one, Wizards most losses ever, Thunder most wins ever, what would you pick? The Thunder.

I mean, the Wizards could win basketball games. They could. There are NBA level players, not many of them, but, you know, they're playing these rotation shenanigans and so forth. There's a couple wins in there. How's it going to get better? You're going to be buying out veterans. Play the NBA players at the end of the games.

I do regret and resent them not trying to win a few of these games at the end of, you know, in the fourth quarter where they're competitive. There's a few that I haven't been a fan of. Would it bother you if they were the worst team of all time? Or would that just be like, all right, we got a great dress. House has no. His body is full of wizard's bullet scars at this point. It's just another scar for his leg. Can you do some of your OKC stuff, Kirk?

Well, I mean, if you just look at the game the way I do, there's a compelling case for the Thunder to beat this record. They're setting the net rating record once again. The Bulls. After 18 games, it's the highest, right? Well, so there's a case against it. But the case for it is, yeah, the net rating is over 16. The 95, 96 Bowls have the record at plus 13.

Wow. Remember the one that when the Warriors 173, they didn't even live. lead the NBA in net rating. That was R. Spurs in San Antonio that year. Thanks, Zaza. Did you hang a banner for that or no? No, Zaza made sure that. We also had another counterpoint, though, for those who don't want to see this record fall, the Thunder have had the easiest schedule in the league so far. How about counter to the counter? No Jalen Williams the entire year. There's the counter to the counter. So that's where it goes. I think the over under is a 68 and a half right now on Fandall, which is absurd.

I would take the over and the only question there to me is how far over can they get? How? So, OKC's reached the point. When they lose, I'm shocked. Right. And I know this because they've only lost once.

And if they lose their next couple games, they're home for Minnesota, home Phoenix, at Portland to finish the month, those would be three shockers for me if they lost any of those games. Then you go into December, they're actually olden state home Dallas at Utah home clippers they could be 24 and 1 heading into at

Minnesota on Friday December 19th that's some rarefied territory like the warriors what did they start out 25 and 0 we've had some teams start out like 24 and 1 271 but uh I want to see like how much of it as we mapped this out before so the implied probability at plus 880 is a little better than 10%. That feels like a good, you know, worth a dabble. But how many times are they doing three games and four nights? What's the back-to-back situation look like? Like, you would want to map some of that stuff out. I'm not worried about like strength of schedule because I'm still mad at the Cavaliers last night sitting virtually everybody against Toronto, basically conceding the tiebreaker against Toronto, as though Cleveland's going to finish so much better than

Toronto this upcoming season that they can go ahead and concede the tie. They've lost three times to the Raptors and they have a game last night. Everybody sits. Like, come on. The last thing I say on the Thunder is like they're going to encounter so many games. And this is very 2025 NBA and I don't like it where the other team isn't trying to win. To your point, I think when you talk about the 96 Bowls or the 16 Warriors, is it fair to say that this potential record could fall in part because there's more teams not trying their best on a nightly basis

in the NBA. So are you saying against OKC specifically or just in general? Just in general. Like teams are tanking at a higher level. More teams are tanking this year with a deep draft. So if they do get to 74, is there an asterisk in part because there's so many of these wizards, Utah. Go look at the 96 polls. That league's suck that year. Fair enough. That was one of the reasons that's one of the reasons that happened. It was like we had like the, yeah, we had expansion teams in two clusters right before they did that. And I don't know, that the 73 and 9, I actually think there's probably some more impressive records. The crazy thing with Jordan was never losing three games in a row for the last six bowl seasons.

That's one of my favorite stats ever. Can I throw you Toronto six? offensive rating second and assist per game in 27th and three points attempted three pointers attempted some of it schedule related right that Zach and I talked about that last week. Schedules lined up really nicely for them but

I test wise I don't mind watching them like I actually think it's a team that makes sense together but do you think that ratings does that seem too high to you? What do you think? Yeah I think there's some shooting luck on both ends of the court. I don't want to rain on the Canadian parade but if you look at the three point shooting

percentage on defense. It's a little lower than you would expect. And on offense, it might be higher. I think Scotty Barnes is shooting 40%. I love Scotty, but that's not where he's going to land this year. But they're bringing the ball to the hoop. They're attacking. They're really physical. And I do love Scotty Barnes because there's very, he's not Janus, but with a head of steam and he gets going. He's been great. Yeah. And then last night. I finally bought in after five years. I'm finally in on Scotty. Yeah, I'm in. It took, it took some time. Why are you shrugging house? Because he sucked last year.

I mean, it's perfectly fine. He's playing much better. He's playing, yes. I mean, his shooting percentages across the board last year, which was emblematic of what that team was, you know, sort of designed for and what their goals were. They had injuries throughout the season and they decided to do the quiet tank with about 30 games left.

They pulled everybody off the court. So you didn't get any, they paid Scotty Barnes all this money and then he, you know, he didn't show up. But this, I like this version of Toronto quite a bit. By the way, that's a great name for a blog in the 2000s, the Quiet Tank. We're going to see some quiet tankers pretty soon. I think the Quiet Tank's, I keep waiting for it with my team to see. My team just keeps winning every time I think the tank's about to happen.

House has been quietly, quiet betting Toronto over and over again. That's been one of your teams, right? Toronto and Phoenix have been your two teams. Well, and Toronto was a lock for me, the over. I mean, I think I got him at 39 and a half before the season started. I love that. The best stat of all time this year,

OKC being first in defensive rating by 7.9 points. That's a never standing like that. Dallas is second, Detroit's third, Houston's fifth. The net rating stuff, anyone over 20 minutes a game, all the leaders are from OKC in Denver. And then Suggs pops in there plus 17. point two. Dylan Harper

16.8. Stephen Adams 16.8. Ananoby's 16.5 and then my guy, Kada, 16.4. How, stick around. Kirk, can you stick around

for one more quick segment? Hell yeah. All right. We're taking one more break. I want to talk point cards with you guys. This Thanksgiving fan duels

letting you pass the leg to your friends and family with a fun new way to bet. So let's break it down. Open past the leg. in the Fanduil Sportsbook app and begin by creating a unique link for your group.

Add your legs. Invite and share with friends. Once friends are finished, adding their legs, add the group parlay to your bet slip. Finally use your past the leg PBT

last but not least to boost your winnings and place your bet. Sal House and Dubundo, they're creating their own group past the leg bet on Cowboys versus Chiefs. I would love to get in on that one before Soundhouse eat all the turkey and forget to pass the leg.

So go check out that parley. Throw it in to whatever you want to do for your bets for Thanksgiving and for Black Friday and everything else. And on Wednesday, the ringer will be sharing our final group bet. Stay tuned to social for that. All right, two topics. Didn't prep you for either of them. You know, it's 25 years of the 21st century. I was thinking back a little bit to everything we've seen.

And I was thinking about John Morant, who I just have been so disappointed by for so many different reasons, as most basketball fans have been the last couple years. Even the Clay Thompson thing, like Clay Thompson's NBA royalty. Like, settle down. Don't talk shit to Clay Thompson. Anyway, I was wondering, has he thrown his hat in the ring for one of the most disappointing stars

of the past 25 years? and what are the qualifications for that list house? Because I don't think injuries are fair. It's like, oh, I'm so disappointed in Jay Williams. Well, he got in a motorcycle accident, he heard his leg. Like, that doesn't count. Greg Oden, I can't be disappointed by. But I made a list of the guys I was the most disappointed by,

and I'm not even going to read all the lists, especially because probably all of them have a player podcast at this point. But I think my number one most disappointing guy of the last 25 years is Ben Simmons. Oh, yeah, sure. That makes a lot of sense. I think he was there for like a year and a half when it was like,

I see the vision of what Ben Simmons, I think he can be one of the 10 best guys in the league. Like it's right there. You kind of look like LeBron sometimes when you have a head of steam downhill and defensively you might be one of the three best guys in the league and you are a foundation block of a team that could maybe win a title.

And then it's just that Atlanta series, it went sideways and I'm disappointed by it. So would that be a good candidate for you guys? Is Jah starting to nudge toward the top here, Kirk? Yeah, he definitely is. In part because I loved watching him play basketball. It's such a high level. Me too.

And he was so young and so ascendant and so confident and so confident and cocky. And like those series against the Warriors were just thrilling to watch. And, you know, I hear Chris Vernon in my head with just, he had the city too. Like he had this whole identity of Memphis and all this. And it was like, oh, this is perfect. The alignment of the player and the city and the highlights were incredible too. It wasn't like boring greatness. But yeah, it's been, it's been, I think I'd put him ahead of Ben Simmons,

but that might be recency bias. Just because I loved how, how, I loved watching John Moran play. How's? I mean, Ben Simmons, to me, has to be number one because it wasn't he, was he first team or second team? His second team all NBA, I think. All NBA and first team all NBA defense, right? Yeah. So Jha hasn't, has he sniffed that?

What's Jod? What's at the peak? John might have been 13, but Jha was, you know, they had, I guess the highlight for him was that Golden State series when they went toe to toe with those guys. They showed clips of that the other day when they were talking about his sister with Golden State. And even in that series, he just looks more explosive than anything we've seen this year. He's got to be in there.

Yeah. So we're not counting first round bus. Uh, so Markell, I'll give you a couple of others, disappointment. Uh, go ahead. Yeah, Markle Faults is a tough one because he's disappointing, but I also think like, you know, he, in retrospect, I wonder how much some of that was his fault. It seemed like he had some physical stuff with the shoulder. Like, Zion to me is on the list, but I think it could still play out of it just because I don't think he's taken the, the body piece of it, the, the staying in shape, taking care of himself. I just don't think he's,

he's done it. And I think that's the biggest reason he's had so many issues. I don't think it's debatable, right? And it's he's one of those guys. You watch from far and you're like, why can't this guy figure it out? So I think that has to qualify. I had Darko. I don't know how much of that was his fault, but Darko was really talented. And I don't really know why it didn't happen. This isn't like a Kwame Brown thing where Kwame Brown got drafted out of high school. ended up staying in the league for a while, right? And it wasn't his fault

he went first and that somebody thought he was better as an 18 year old than Pao Gisov, which was just the wrong opinion. Somebody was Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan thought that.

Michael Jordan thought that. He was the greatest player of all time. Yeah. Darko was good. He just was a fucking mess. But that one still bugs me. Bad situation. Bad timing.

He was a good guy who could shoot threes. And, you know, he was athletic. Kirk smiling. Oh, I love the, was he too early for his time? Oh, God. such a great point. You know, I don't know.

If he goes to a different team, he's not on this, he's not the mascot of a 2004 Pistons title team and he's just on Charlotte for a couple years. Does it turn out okay for him? I don't know. Couldn't he have been Christoph Porzingis 1.0? Couldn't he have been?

I mean, you could do the Instagram thing with him where it's like, Darko Milich was a problem. And you could cut like two minutes of highlights from him and be like, ah, I kind of see it. it lefty you know he had that little little lefty hook i liked him um for this exercise let me interrupt you for just one second if you put ben simmons number one where's joel imbid yeah i thought about him

he didn't make my list because i think physically it's just been one thing after another the entire time how much does he get blamed for that i don't know but he had issues coming into the league. He had knee injuries coming out of the gate. Whether he could have done stuff on his own. I don't know. But, you know, he also won an MVP. He had some really good years. I don't. To me, he's more in that Chris Weber area where it's like, oh, there's a version of this where this is a way better career. Never played on the Eastern Conference Final. He never did. Serious. Can I nominate somebody for your list? Please. Lakers Center went out.

Andrew Bynum? Yes. He was on my list. So he was on my, I'm not sure list because he had some knee stuff. He did and some brain stuff. Well, yeah, he definitely, I don't know if he made a lot of friends during the course of his career, but it seemed like his body broke down, but House, I didn't know if it was because he was caring too much weight. He's one of those centers where it's like, but yeah, 0809, 10, that guy was, you were scared of him when they posted him up.

Yeah. I had, this is a tough one for House. I think he belongs on the list. Now, I know he had some personal problems, but half of the guys in this list probably did. But Steve Francis, who was 26 and 6, and was the focal point of a Tracy McGrady trade,

and his career was basically over before he hit 30. But it's just from the get-go when he didn't want to go to Vancouver, and it just was never, there was a better player in there somewhere and we never got the career. All right, my next one, I'm still mad at Derek Williams,

who I think was the second pitch, I think I was really high in him in the draft diaries. And I don't understand he was great in college. He was the perfect stretch for who was that. He could be a rim runner, but also hit threes. And he's moving into this 2010s area. And I still don't know what happened. Really makes me madhouse.

We thought we were all in on that dude coming out of college. Remember the Arizona stuff? It was like, how is this guy not going to be an awesome pro? I'm also mad at Jimmer for debt. I don't know why he couldn't put it together. we're moving into the three-point shooting era the guy had 30-foot range he couldn't have been like the 10th man

he couldn't have been Peyton Pritchard House he could have been he had plenty of chances I gotta give house some red meat I'm thinking this through that we don't have like you didn't define the parameter so like is Marvin Williams a disappointment no because I was ready to be disappointed by them I'll give you some red meat

all right Anthony Davis oh my goodness yeah let's get let's get frisky NBA top 75 player in a ring got a ring that's one

that was one should he been Tim Duncan I'm not disappointed by Anthony Davis all right I put him honorable mention I just want to talk it out Baron Davis KG what do you think

I think he has a couple of historic moments. I don't know how high I was of him coming out of UCLA. I think he had a decent NBA career, but I can see why people who watched him play either early in the NBA thought that he was destined for more than he actually got. He's on the list for me because I was going to those Quipper games. I thought he was so talented.

And then the other, I remember Nash talking once about how Baron Davis was the hardest guy for him to play in the entire league. And he had that whole run. And he had a good career. He got a couple of big contracts. There was a big game element to him that we saw in the 07 Warriors Mab series where it was like the bigger, the stage, the better he got.

And I never thought he was in the right shape for most of his career. He had some neat stuff, but I thought he should have been awesome. I put O.J. Mayo on there. And then Vince Carter, obviously, it has to be on this list. Yeah. I just, even though Vince Carter is going to go to the Hall of Fame. Deserves it. average 25, 26, 27 a game some year.

But it's just never from the heights of that early Toronto stuff, when you go all the way through to the end of Toronto, to the Nets, then he shows up on Phoenix, and he's in Dallas. And it just felt like somebody that should have been the best guy on really good teams for like seven, eight years. And it never happened to us. One of our most frustrating players that we would talk about. Yeah, he never found the situation that was going to,

give him a chance at a ring. I mean, what was the best team that he played on? Why wouldn't have been in Orlando in 2010? I never understood that. He's playing with an all-MBA center. The league wasn't in the greatest shape, right? LeBron's Cleveland, things about the crater. The Celtics were up and down that year,

and it just felt like somewhere along the stretch it should have happened. If that's your logic, is Tracy McGrady a candidate for your list? Thought about them. like if playoff teammates where the supporting cast were so awful i'm actually in the camp of i would actually defend tracy versus put him on a list like this i thought he just played with nobody for years and years and years yeah i love this game uh one of the nerd candidates i'll throw i you is larry sanders uh the oh that's a great one when we were put we were starting to do some of the first player tracking studies in the NBA this guy like started to pop on all these rim protection

metrics that we'd never had access to before and i wrote his paper for sloan i was like this guy's going to be the best rim protector in the league for the next five or ten years and he was out of the league uh by 26 or something and uh but he was i i was like this guy i'm going to put my flag in here and this guy's going to be you know the face of of the defensive analytics revolution i never showed up. I'm still personally disappointed in Keith Van Horn, but technically he also belonged to the 90s. But I just, I don't know why he wasn't 20 and 8 for like 12 years.

House is done with this segment. Can I give you my top 10 point cards really quick? Go ahead. Talked about this with Zach. We talked about it through the context of the point guide Chris Paul retiring. And I mentioned my top five, which is magic. and Curry and Oscar Robertson and Bob Coos and Isaiah Thomas as my top five. House, do you have notes?

No, no, that's it. That's the list for me as well. Goldsbury, you have notes. I can't go against the sports guy on Coosie, but that's the one I heard you and Zach talking about it, the generational stuff. Everybody's going to read that differently. I'll take it. I'll take it as listed. Next five.

Chris Paul, John Stockton, just a hair. behind him. Steve Nash. Jason Kidd just the hair behind him. And then Walt Frazier, if he counts as a point guard, which I think he does. And I think that's the top 10. We mentioned

at Gary Payton a level after that, then it moves into it. Gary Payton's probably the toughest cut. Iverson was not a point guard, so he can't be included. But how, how do you feel about that second five? no issue. I mean, you know, we're doing the all-time greats and we have a good, like a pretty

unimpeachable top 10. Frazier is the one that got lost to history a little bit. He has the game seven and 69 is one of the great individual games in the history of the week and wins them a title. He wins two titles. He is probably the best defensive guard of his entire generation was a famous, famous big game guy and had good stats and his career went about as long as it should have gone in that era

where they're flying coach and they were playing on converses. So yeah, Gary Payton is the toughest one for me because I think Peyton's peak was probably better than Stockton.

There was at least one playoff series where he just murdered John Stockton. Right? And it was a really bad matchup and the whole thing. But is there anybody, who do you think is the most, underrated point card of all time for you.

Tony Parker. The guy who won four NBA championships, the finals MVP, led the league in paint scoring as a 6-2 point guard. And, you know, you could say he's a system player or what, but man, he was the best player on that team for a lot of big games.

And, you know, I'm biased to the silver and black, but Tony, Tony's getting lost for the same reason Tim gets lost. He doesn't talk about himself. He doesn't make a lot of appearances. He's not on TV. Going on TV, his hopes. But that's the name where I wouldn't be doing a service to my friends in San Antonio if I didn't bring him up. So the guy we didn't mention was SGA. I don't think SGA is a point guard. But I also don't know what a point card is

anymore because technically he fulfills the position of point guard but he's not a point guard he's not like these guys house and i grew up with like mocheeks and tiny archibrar he's just a different type of player it's almost like this new version of a guard right so he's like on this different list with like Hardin and russell westbrook and people like that yeah luca these high usage rate guards that they fit the role and that the bigger question for me is is curry in that list and zach and i talked about that yesterday, but House, do you think Curry's an actual point card?

In your head, what is he? Is he a guard or is he a point card? He's more of a guard than a point guard, but it's impossible to try and split, you know, to do definitionally what we're trying to accomplish. So just putting him in the top five

that we're saying, okay, he's with magic and he's with, you know, that's the right place for him. What do you think, Kirk? I have him as a point guard. I think if you Parker's like this, too. Parker wasn't like a total point card, but he was. And to piggyback on your point, like, we have to move the goalposts because the style of the game is changing. And, you know, when Mark Jackson was the coach in Golden State, they ran a lot of traditional pick and roll. And he sure as hell looked like a point card back then.

And then Steve got there. And now they're running through Bogut and Draymond and David Lee and his drivel handoffs. And he's running circles. And that really defined his career. But I think of them as a point guard. But yeah, the same thing I would say to Shea is just like this is, if we want to continue to compare point guards, we have to say that the definition is growing to include these type of guys. Because, you know, who's not walking through that door is Mo Cheeks. Mo Cheeks isn't walking through that door ever again. We're never going to see like the six one guy who dribbles it up, initiates an action, dumps it down to Moses Malone, and there we go.

Chausen, I love those guys. I love those guys. we had a couple guys at Holy Cross well we had playing pickup you always wanted the Mo Cheeks type guys oh for sure those guys just were looking out for everybody else just wanted to let everybody else eat

what can I do guys can I make you a plate can I cut your chicken for you here I wonder as this argument evolves down the road if we throw away like point guard shooting guard all this shit and we just go guards wings and bigs and that's where we end up because yokeage is

I mean yokech is a center but he's also a guy I don't even know what the fuck he is anymore I guess he's just a big but just the the five positions that we grew up with are basically gone right and

I like I looka's the game's different it's fine Luca's a guard hardin's a guard car as a guard I just think that probably an easy way to think about it

but is it how high can I put SGA in the in the pyramid at this point what's the number that you'd be happy with because he's clearly on it now is he level two for you yet yeah yes yes yes so that puts them it's in like the Macadoo Archibald Joel Mbid Bernard King for sure Heinzen Arisen Wilkins Dwight Howard Russell Westbrook Anthony Davis area As you say all those names, I get, I grow more and more confident that it's absolutely appropriate to say he's there. Does he nudge toward like the low 50s Gary Payton Paul Pierce area already or does he need a couple more years? Because almost when you're doing this, it's like his career ends tomorrow, does he have enough to, so you need two more years, okay. Well, let's just let the season play out.

If they defend the title, if they win 70 games and they defend the title. Now he's in the 40s. Yeah. If they win two straight titles, he wins the MVP last year, maybe even this year. Now you're in the different tax bracket for this, I think. All right, Kirk, anything else? Any other questions for us before you go? I would just like to wish you and your family and your listeners and the house family a happy Thanksgiving,

enjoy the football, some basketball in between football, and thanks for having me on, Bill. Kirk, what's your favorite side? I'm a mashed potatoes guy. A lot of garlic, a lot of gravy. And, yeah, I don't get a lot of mashed potatoes. So once a year, I really go into it. House, you're going to have to be careful this year because the football games are really good. I don't know what you're doing for an eating strategy, but you almost have to, like, kind of wait for that little stretch between the second and third game.

The first two are amazing. I'm going to eat all day. I'm just going to eat all day. There's no really, like, you know, it'll be plate, it'll be a plate an hour over 12 hours. Buy to Goldsbury's. House staying on and we're going to do some football. Later, guys. Thanks, Kirk.

At Capital One, we're more than just a credit card company. We're people just like you who believe in the power of yes. Yes to new opportunities. Yes to second chances. Yes to a fresh start. That's why we've helped over four million Canadians get access to a credit card. Because at Capital One, we say yes. So you don't have to hear another no.

What will you do with your yes? Get the yes you've been waiting for at Capital One.ca slash yes. Terms and conditions apply. You and the Per Noelle? The pro of the embellage caduce. But Riesce's, the desbalage, is who the maher? The moul Reese on board of arachid met your art of deballage of the deballage of the bradracheet

and chocolate-forned by packet, you have to what to train it? To find, again, and again, this pleasure, sucre, salie. And again. And again. The Pern-N-Hale has his biscuits, you're not

Ries, and there's nothing like Reese's. All right, House, we're doing Ringer 107 picks on a Tuesday afternoon Thanksgiving. This is way too early. So much can change.

But what are we going to do? We've got to do it. We're going to try to concentrate on the Thursday and Black Friday games just because they're closer and we actually know who's playing and then maybe do some other stuff.

We had another disappointing week last week. two and three. We're two games under 500. I just can't get it going this year house. And I don't know what it is. We're not making excuses, but I, you and I spoke and I told you that by the time Sunday morning arrived, I was in a different place on at least two of our picks. And we had a difference of opinion on. The Saints was a classic. We like the Saints on Thursday. By Sunday, it was clear. It was an all-time stayaway pick. Everybody had them. They're minus one and a half with, a pretty crappy 2-and-A team with everybody mobilized behind them and the game played out the way it played out. So we're going to concentrate on some of the games

that are a little closer. Okay, staying away from Rams' pants. Stop me if you don't want to stay away from any of these. Rams, Panthers, Bucks, Cardinals, don't even know who's starting QB for the Bucks, Titans, Jags, Falcons, Jets. I'm never putting the Falcons in Ringer 107 again. I hope they burn in hell.

Chargers, Raiders. And Broncos, Washington, is that a possible parlay for you? Is it a stayaway? Who's playing QB for you? Almost certainly Marcus Marriota. Well, they yesterday, they are characterizing it

as extremely unlikely for Jaden. I just want to go on the record. I think if he plays any more football this season, I think it's an outrage. I think it's a goddamn. I think it's a misunderstanding fundamentally of what an asset he is and what the risk paradigm. The man's been hurt three different times with three different body parts this season and a different body part with a different injury last season. There is no rationale other than what butts in seats at the stupid stadium out in Prince George's County.

he's not he doesn't need reps he's not getting useful reps with this poverty team with everybody hurt no terry mccloren the the noah brown ecklerg's been hurt you know since the beginning of the season it just doesn't make any sense to me so i i soundly and loudly reject the idea that that additional reps are helpful to him i hope not to see him until the beginning of the 2026 season. Should I just cut and paste that same monologue when the Celtics start thinking about bringing Jason Tatum back in March when they're 38 and 39? Viking Seahawks, can we stay away?

So it's probably Brasmer. That lines double digits now, 10 and a half. It's probably Brasmer, right? Yeah, I don't. What if he's like, okay? I don't know. I'm in the same boat as you. I was really, really, really, I already bet it.

I bet Seattle minus nine and a half before the news about this. I'm going to be really, I'm not going to make any jokes about the concussion thing. Because he did get sad. A joke that he might not have one. Well, it was, you know, he had the symptoms on the flight, on the flight home. Yeah, yeah.

And he took some hits and I can. He took hits, but there be no doubt. Dolphins, saints, dolphins, five and a half. Cannot, cannot, cannot, cannot. Staying away completely. Yeah. Do you like a coward was saying he thought he thought Purdy was the right-handed Tua? It's really first coward take I've been jealous of in a while.

It's very good. Coward, keeping me on my toes. I've been jealous of a coward taking four years. The only difference is so far Purdy doesn't really put himself in harm's way running wise. Coward was bragging on a show that he had better seats than me at a WrestleMania. It's possible. Why couldn't he? There was one where I was with six people.

And I was in the third row and he was in the first. He called the wrestling fans, booger eaters for years and years. Go look it up. So what? That doesn't mean he can't sit in the front row. Yeah, but that was once. I've been ahead of him in the, I'm always ahead of him in rows. You should be on the front row at every event.

I don't understand. What are you doing? No, for a coward, he can screw off. Go sit with the booger eaters in the third row. See, I'm hoping this turns into a sports blog post because they can just put us both in the post with the thing, but meanwhile, I like Howard. But don't tell anybody.

Just get your post. Zin and says. Get your aggregation out. Leglies. These are not Thursday, Friday games. Browns plus six and a half at home against the Niners. We have to play it. Home Browns is one of our favorite bets.

They're just a different team. Home Browns. I mean. The hash browns. Chador wasn't incredible, but he was fine. And them at home against that. Maybe less than fine, but he wasn't bad. He wasn't bad.

The San Francisco defense, what they put on display against Carolina, it was that, that, San Francisco handling their business against the Panthers was a thousand percent about how inept the Panthers. Panthers are. That was the Panthers insisted on defeating themselves again and again and again. I did a seven point tease with five teams, including the Panthers up to plus 14 and sweat it out and they won. And Bryce Young was just, what goes on in that dude's head? Would you rather have, would you rather have J.J. McCarthy as your quarterback and know that it's not happening? No. Or Bryce Young, no. Tainalizing with the possibility.

that it might happen, but then over and over again proving that it's not going to happen. I don't know which one's worse. Definitely, Jason McCarthy. He can't play. Okay. He's worse.

So Browns just they're six and a half. This is like three free points. Play it. How is this line that three and a half? I don't know. Play them. We love the Browns. Browns at home.

Miles Garrett might get four sacks. Another possible is Texans Colts. Texans are getting. four and a half in Indianapolis. This is a bet on the Texans defense. I don't know if it's Mills or Stroud. I don't really care. Not sure how good the Colts are.

As the season goes along, the fact that Sal and I talked about it on Sunday, really, they seem really scared to let Daniel Jones decide the game. Here's the thing that scares me a little bit about the Houston situation. the Colts have been away from home for a month. And all of these games where they haven't looked great have been outdoor. That game against Pittsburgh,

that's an outdoor, you know, not going to let them get out and run thing. Then they went to Berlin, outdoor stadium. They put up a bunch of yards. Last week in Kansas City. Two consecutive overtime games also for the Colts now.

But finally, they're home. They're finally home. They're back to their their home track. And that secondary, the health, they were, that was, they were good. They were, that secondary against the chiefs was very good. They were not, that was not the reason. You're saying all stuff I had in my head that should I be more scared of them at home with Houston who can't really block with the secondary taking a rise up. And most people probably liking the Texans because of the line,

because of the way they've been playing. Counter, Texans, 10 days rest, must win for them. Literally a must win. I don't know if they make the playoffs if they don't win this game. Well, I'll mark it down. I mean, to be fair, the Colts did have a buy in between. It wasn't like they flew from internationally back to the U.S.

and immediately played the Chiefs. I'll mark it down because I thought that was a really bad loss for the Colts. like Sal and I were talking about just to go three and out the last four times you had the ball and it just didn't seem like they trusted Jones and I think sometimes with your teams

and like those are the moments where it's like do you trust this guy or not it didn't seem like they trusted him. It's fine to not trust him you kind of get JT the ball like we watched we saw the recipe

with the dumb dumb lions the lines at least understand that Jamir Gibbs is their secret sauce and they're like we're probably going to lose this game to the giants but we're going to get you 300 yards from 300 scrimmage yards because if we're going to lose

it's going to go down this way it has to be the exact same with Jonathan Taylor go ahead and be cautious but get that man touches every which way you can so maybe staying away from that one I just don't love it Giants Pats

Giants are getting seven and a half in New England it's a Monday night game we went against the Patriots because I try to be like I'm not trying to be a homer we wanted the five best picks we went against the Pats once and we lost

it was a tough situation they went to Tampa and they handled their business it was impressive that was the one we went against them seven and a half is that the number it's too many points

is James playing Is James definitely playing? I think James is playing. If James plays, then it's too many points. You know who's not playing? The entire left side of the Patriots' offensive line. You know, it wasn't good? Even two weeks ago, the Patriots' offensive line.

You know it was the best part of their offensive line? The two guys on the left side, the rookies, who we're not going to have. The way to get at the Giants, again, you know, we just saw it with the Lions, you got to establish the run. You have to get outside and run on them. Can the Patriots do that? Have we seen that at all this season? There's two issues with this line being this high.

One is that I'm worried they're not going to be able to block the Giants at all. Two, even if they have the lead, they're not going to be able to run the ball to keep the lead, which is what we saw in the Bengals game. They should have put that Bengals game away. They couldn't run the ball. So this line's just too high. The counter would be you have Jamis. God only knows with that dude. You're betting on them on a Monday night.

There could be two pick sixes. it could be you know four and four four touchdowns four four picks two of which are pick sixes that's what makes them so beautiful the pats have look the schedule has been amazing they barely beat Cincinnati they Thursday against the Jets which they won by 13 that game was closer than it felt like and the Jets left some plays on the table and really if they were competent all offensively that would have been closer. Tampa, 28, 23 final,

but Tampa played really well that game, and I just thought that was a good game. Atlanta, they win by one. The last time they've really beaten up a team was Cleveland in week eight. They won 32 to 13. Maybe Tennessee the week before,

but they're not really like whooping teams because they can't run the ball or protect leads. So this line's too high. Giants have been pretty good on the road. Like, they were live. Yeah, they've blown five double-digit leads on the road.

Yeah. They were live to beat many very good teams, live to beat all of them. Yeah. So the other thing with this Pat's game, they have a buy week after this week. They're banged up and they got Buffalo the week after. And this just feels like a classic. Can we just sneak through this game?

Let's try not to have any more injuries. Anyway, marking it down. Bill Stealers is the last one. Bill's at Pittsburgh. Bills are minus three and a half. Bills, 10 days rest. Steelers missing their left tackle. They're missing Harmon on defense.

I didn't think last week was a great game for them. What Rogers is apparently coming back, even though he's going to have a splint on his wrist. And I don't like the hook, especially in Pittsburgh. But I do want to put the bills in the T's or a parley. I would like to discuss that. as a money line leg? We could do, I think we both like the Eagles

minus seven against the Bears and we could just do Eagles money line bills plus one and a half and make that one of our picks. So the counter is plus one and a half in Pittsburgh. The case you have to make for Pittsburgh is 18 years of Tomlin. Tomlin in these situations

they can't lose any more games. They're going to be out of the playoff picture if they lose any more games. And, you know, their ability to generate turnovers, especially at home, especially in this dog position, when you sit down and go through the numbers, the trends,

Tomlin in this spot at this point in the season, especially three and a half, you have to play. So the right thing to do is what you're guiding us towards, which is get away from, don't play three and a half. Get away from the hook. Do something else?

But do you really feel like we can trust the bills? That's my question to you. So I thought about this. The bills are 7 and 4. 11 and 6 might, like, you're almost in danger. You might not even make the playoffs with how many like 11 and 12 when teams are going to have. I can't really afford any of their losses. Did we overreact to that Houston game?

I mentioned the Sassau on Sunday. They're playing on three days rest. They're playing in Houston against the best defense in the league. and they almost won, by the way. Had the ball in the 10-yard line, first down, and they couldn't punch it in. But they were in the game. It wasn't like, yeah, Alan got sacked a bunch of times,

but that was the best defense. They did only have two days to prepare for it, basically. And I don't know. It just feels like we're actually getting the bills on a nice, kind of on a nice zag situation where people are a little too down on them. And the market's not, though. It's three and a half.

The market's kind of telling us. We both agree. Everybody's going to be like, oh, Pittsburgh, three and a half, Tom, on her home, you got to take the points. That's what I'm thinking. The only thing that makes me uneasy is it does seem like Pittsburgh is pretty comfortable

with their run game now. And it is kind of a two-headed monster, like both Jalen Warren and Gainwell as a revelation. And they're getting catches out of the backfield. They've really done something nice with their two-headed running, core and the thing that has beat this bill's defense all season long is

the running game. All right. I just want to make sure we're being cautious. You're advocating a stable. We still have to come up with five picks. All right. Thursday. Lions Packers. It sounded like you like the Packers a little bit,

but I'm going to force us to take the Lions. Well, you can do that. I am vehemently opposed to it. Okay, can you make the case? Let's hear it. I think the version of the Green Bay Packers that we saw in the very first game

of the season against this Lions team is still present and that they can do the exact same thing to this Lions team. The skepticism around the Lions coming into the season was they had two of their Hall of Fame ish, you know,

interior offensive linemen. One retired and one plays for another team now. And, you know, the changeover at offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator. All of that has proven to be, you know, factor in making this Lions team look pretty

underwhelming against every team with any kind of talent. And I think that this Green Bay defense is being underrated. I think that they are, to me, they're a top three defense in the NFL, the Green Bay defense. And I think they have no problem whatsoever going into Detroit and bullying the Lions. They won in 2023. They had the ball last possession last year and lost right at the end.

They're not like afraid of going in. And this lion's defense was on the football field for 80 snaps. That game went to overtime against the Giants. Here's the, if you want to get into the trend thing, teams that play on Thursday after playing in an overtime game, six and 25 against the spread since 2000. Six and 25. And it's at noon.

So it's not even like, you know, they're playing nighttime the lion. So I'm on Green Bay. I've already bet it. I bet the money line. I think they're the better team. I think they're going to win the NFC North. That was a pretty compelling case house.

I don't know what it is about Thanksgiving. Trying to come up with a good counter other than, I have no idea where the Packers are going when it's third and seven. Here, the counter is the Packers are also like one Jordan Love falling down the wrong way because of the, you know, he was handing off with his opposite hand because, you know, whatever that injury is, if he falls down the wrong way one time. Oh, I noticed that. Yeah.

And you, you know, we're still waiting for that offense to really wow us. Now, Manuel Wilson, who you picked up, you son of a gun. in my ringer fantasy league part of my dramatic comeback yeah Jacobs I bet plays well I'm I'm looking I think we're going to play each other

if the playoffs started this week we would play each other so I'm trying to look at who I'm likely to end up playing against but Jacobs I expect the reason that he didn't play on Sunday is so that he could play this game but what if what if that's a two-headed kind of monster for them

because you got to play Wilson so they got to play both I think and that should help Jordan Love, but that would be the counter, I think. So are you advocating Philly Money Line with Packers plus six and a half? Oh, I mean, that would be fine, of course. Because the Philly Money Line is fine with anything you want to pair it with, for my perspective. What if we had Eagles, the Eagles minus one and a half, and we got that lines to plus seven and a half?

fine great done sounds pretty exciting awesome so you're saying even if the lions win which you're skeptical of it's not a game where they're going to be blowing the packers out anything like that you're expecting a tight game or you're expecting the lions to kick their ass yeah yeah i think that the green bay has um the right personnel to handle the you know the Detroit's weapon is jimmyr Gibbs because golf has really not been that impressive we keep waiting that was a classic Detroit get right put up 50 point spot against the Giants and they should have lost a football game so and it's because they just can't they don't win at the line of scrimmage the way they used to oh man so I'm fando Packers plus six and a half is minus 235 but plus seven half is

minus 330 they're not giving us over the So it would have to be Eagles money line with Packers plus six and a half. Fine, fine, fine. I mean, the Packers are going to win outright. I've bet on it. I'll accept my fate if they don't. If Jordan Love gets hurt. Well, your fate last week was you gave us the Saints minus one and a half,

which I didn't want to do, and that fucking lost. So your fate's been pretty fateful. So many lessons learned. What are the lessons? I mean, that- Don't bet on Tyler Shuck. Taylor Shuck, what's his name? I thought I was watching Tennessee from last year, watching that game.

Because I was in field goals. They had fucked up two fourth and first in goals. Invested in. Yeah, like they were bad in every phase. They had poor planning. It was a poor scheme. It was a poor execution, offense, defense, and special teams. It was really, like I said, I thought we were watching the Titans from last year.

It was a Callahan special. Cowboys, Chiefs, Cowboys are getting three at home. Chiefs, speaking of your overtime stat, they also played overtime on Sunday. And I like to, it's funny because I used the logic for liking the Cowboys in this game as part of my calculus. And didn't use that for the Lions Packers until you reminded me that the Lions also played in overtime. This went from three and a half to three. There's some wiggle room here with a tease, too. with the Cowboys.

That's another one we could throw in a seven-a-half. I would much rather just take the plus three. Not me. I'd rather have the points. I'd rather have the points. What do you mean? I'd rather have the extra points. We're over, you know, over seven and a half.

I want a bad, I need a back door. Three doesn't give us a back door with Dallas. Well, one more game, Bengals Ravens, Bengals plus seven, no T. Higgins, Chase is playing, Burroughs playing. I got to watch this team against the Patriots last week. They're not very good. one of the reasons like the Pat's Giants line

like the Bengals we made the Bengals defense look like it was pretty confident I'm not I'm not sure it is but I don't like the Ravens either the Bengals have the worst defensive DBOA since 1978 of coordinator shots

the Ravens I don't know what the advanced metric is for eye test this looks like something's wrong but something looks wrong especially with Lamar I almost want to stay away from this game. Good. Please do. Because the correct side is definitely Cincinnati

at that number. I don't want to take Cincinnati. What evidence is there of Baltimore winning by margin against a team with a good quarterback? I don't want to go against Borough. I mean, there will be a rust factor. There will be all the stuff. But I just,

I mean, these two teams, this divisional game, that's a lot of points for a divisional game with all the uncertainty around a Burrow return. well we only have four picks us here's the what are they what are the four packers plus two and a half eagles minus two and a half parlayed with cowboys seven plus plus seven and a half that's uh like minus one 13 browns six and a half over the niners giants plus seven a half over the patriots

then we need one more game so it's either the texans plus four and a half or we or we uh we just blindly take the Steelers Tomlin infrastructure plus three and a half. I don't want to take the Bengals plus seven. Just because it's Thursday and we get to root for it. Let's do that. That's more fun. We're at the stage of the season, week 13, it's Thanksgiving. I'll be sprawled on the couch.

T-shirt halfway up my belly. By the way, this is the Thursday night game. I know, that's what I mean. I'll be on the couch. Pro truting belly. T-shirt, three-quarters the way, barely covering. It ain't going to cover my belly. I don't think the Ravens are good.

Yeah. All right, let's do it. All right, Ringer 107. Lions, as always, presented by Fandle. House wanted us to take Packers plus two and a half against the Lions, so we're doing that. You're basically vowing the Packers going to win this game. This is confident. I've seen you all year.

True story. I believe it. We were talking, we did the two for the money rewatchables and we were talking about that sports advisors era when they dramatically said, this is the lock of Thanksgiving

and whether we should incorporate that at our own ring or one of us. The only time we did that all year was that one Browns game, the bad weather game with Tua going to Cleveland where we were like, this is our lock of the year. The Browns against Tua.

And that won. I don't know if we should start doing that more. And we won. So we're one and O and we go lock of the year. So Packers plus two and a half. Is this house's lock of the holidays? It's the Thanksgiving

lock. It's the turkey leg lock of Thanksgiving. My Thanksgiving lock brings in Black Friday and it is Eagles minus two and a half with the Cowboys parlay to plus seven and a half. Eagles have to win by three. Cowboys are getting seven-half points. We're parlaying those

together. We're going to take the Bengals plus seven against the Ravens because it's too many points. Burroughs back. Jamar Chase is back. Trying to prove to everybody. He's learned some lessons. Bengals' defense, either the Pat's offense isn't good

or the defense actually looked pretty frisky. They had some goal line stops, and they were at least playing hard. There's three. Browns plus six and a half at home against the Niners. House and I just feel like the Browns are like, home browns are like a different,

they're like the 33rd NFL team. And then last but not least, we're staying away from Bill's Steelers because of the hook. We're staying away from Texans plus four and a half at Indianapolis because we're not sure Indianapolis at home might have forgotten how special that team is.

And we're going to take Giants plus seven and a half in New England because the line's too high. Because the Patriots don't have an offensive line anymore. They can't run the ball and even if they take a lead, it's going to be hard for them to extend and move it out. And there's a whole Giants' paths history and I think it's the right. And the back door is open if

James is the quarterback. That's true. I hope the Patriots to win by 40 points. But that's going to be our Ringer 107. The last pick, Giants plus seven and a half. All line subject to change presented by Fandall's sportsbook. All right. Give us your 2025 Thanksgiving rankings before we go.

Thanksgiving rankings. Number one thing you're most excited to eat. What is it? Dark meat. I love to get underneath. It's not just you could take the leg and the leg is fine, but where it connects that thigh meat, the juicy thigh meat, because it's been sitting in the pan and roasting for hours

and all of the moisture of the turkey is right down to that portion of it. That's the bird butter. That's what I want. I would put my face in it if I had the opportunity. But this is, you know, I understand everybody that's like, a turkey, yeah, you have to do turkey. You're missing. It's a rare thing.

We don't have it all the time. so try and find the portion of it that is just it's it is flavorful it's packed full of flavor right where I'm describing Turkey is the quarterback of Thanksgiving that you try to look for other things that are the most important player in the team and it's like no it's actually the turkey

it is the turkey everything revolves around the turkey we don't eat it that often because it immediately put you in a coma there's a scene in Beast and Me when the bad guy Matthew Reese his character he's just eating rotisserie chicken.

I don't know. Have you seen that show yet? I don't know it. No. He just starts eating this chicken and he's just like eating it like an animal. And the only other person I've ever seen do that is you. All right. What's your number two Thanksgiving thing you're excited to eat? Stuffing, but it's got to be sausage stuffing because I love the combination. And it's got to be a moist stuffing.

I don't, I understand when, you know, folks go for that, that crispy baked top, but it can have the effect. of undermining the moisture, sucking the moisture out. So as long as you can preserve the moisture, but I like big chunks of sausage in there. I like that pow, and I like, you know, a bite of fennel in with that stuffing. And if you want to throw a couple red pepper flakes,

if you want to elevate, you know, the spice level, I'm here for it. Because when you put that next to that, that the dark turkey, you know, it almost takes you in the direction that dark turkey with the juices. It's a little bit gamey also, potentially. And then you then get that sausage and the pop of that sausage, the way that that eat and the moisture of the bread along with it.

Those are bites. Those are world class once a year, revel in it bites. Big chunks of sausage. was in the text between Olivia Nuzzi and RFK Jr. But I can't remember who texted it. All right, my favorite, I'll let you go again for your third pick. My favorite is stuffing of everything. And for all the reasons you laid out, I don't like when it's too dry.

I like when it's a little moist. I like putting gravy on it. I like taking the turkey. I don't eat the stuffing by itself. I always have the stuffing bite with the turkey with some cranberry. and as I say every year and people think I'm a serial killer I still like the canned cranberry

over like the fancier homemade give me the old school buy it at any grocery store I still like that cranberry jelly round whatever fucking however you describe it I still like that the most we've come all the way around

people now what I see is folks even high end chef saying advocating go ahead and if you want to make your foo do it but also make sure you serve a can version next to it because it's nostalgia and it is

it is tasty it's tasty carve it out it also has a little better consistency so you put it on the stuffing scooping in with the turkey and it's a little gravy

and it's like that's the best bite I'm gonna have number two is my mom's the the sweet potato cassero thing she makes with that

she puts like it's basically diabetes special it's like there's pecans on it it's brown sugar it's cooked it's there's marshmallows in it it's like you just you just go into a coma basically after you have it is it dessert or is it served as a side no it's a side yeah so I mean the funny thing is

we have mashed potatoes too we do double we have mashed potatoes with the sweet potatoes yeah mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes is a fairly traditional uh you know double dose I think that what's your number three um yeah I don't want to be told that this is a cop out it's gravy because gravy plays such a crucial role to elevating every aspect of what's on the plate. If you've got mashed potatoes on the plate, then you've got to have the gravy. If you've got the juicy turkey that I'm talking about, but the gravy just elevates it. It's a glue guy. The gravy plays that glue guy roll and it elevates everything.

And any vegetable you're going to have on the plate, got to have it, you know, have the gravy available to dip, you know, if there's green bean. I mean, I'm not, I don't do the green bean casserole with the mushroom soup. I like kind of a roasted vegetable vibe. My mom's making that, the green bean cassero, yeah. That's great. Yeah, because she doesn't eat gravy for that. Traditional green beans or green bean casserole.

You could have both. What you find is that anything with casserole in it, I'm probably going to eat in Thanksgiving. Yes, yes, for sure. My wife's trying some cream spinach thing that I didn't even really fully understand. That's going to be a bonnet. Hells, that vibe? Yeah, I don't, I didn't really understand it. It just sounds like more calories, but apparently that's happening as well.

Okay. You know, the Italians, this is my beloved Aunt Jen now deceased, but, you know, it was multi-courses. Like, to start with the, this is for Easter, too, where you, there's a lasagna. Yeah, oh, sure. And then a ham, and then Thanksgiving. That makes sense. But that's like, I don't know, that's fucking crazy.

Like, I look back, I'm like, how do you have a ham? turkey that's absolutely bonkers i don't think it is so like my household um tradition the thing and i've i've put pictures of it up my mother um for you know 50 years makes an an antipasta with with um rolled italian meats cheeses olives um we had that sometimes too yeah the the the vegetables in the brine like the whole that whole spread maybe with a little bit of tuna in the middle, flake two and a other, what's your favorite, what's your fourth after gravy? Any other ones? No, I mean, we covered, we covered the most important parts. How about favorite pie? Definitely a thousand percent sweet potato. I love sweet potato pie. I mean, you know, it's,

you're still in the same basic kind of orientation with pumpkin. And I, why would I say anything bad about pumpkin pie? But sweet potato pie is superior. One of the biggest tragedies I've had since I moved to L.A. It's not in the top three, but it's in the top 10 was when my wife's friend Robin, who made the porch pies. Oh, yeah. And she moved back to the south and we don't have porch pies for Thanksgiving anymore.

Man. She would make the chocolate chess and the pumpkin. The chocolate chest was outrageous. The sweet potato. Yep. And it was the fucking best. And now it's just gone. And I haven't had a pie since.

That's like it. It was always the number one. I don't know why she just didn't stay here and open a porch pie shop. You could call her up and ask her to send you one. Maybe I should make them a piece. back. That's an extra 10 pounds for me though. You can you can just ask her to make one and put it in a FedEx. It's so good. What's your least favorite Thanksgiving dish or dessert? Do you have

one that you're just out on? I don't tend to eat the rolls. I don't mess with the bread because I'm a great point. Why is there bread on Thanksgiving? I'm looking forward to every other aspect of it. The stuffing. Yeah, exactly. That's that's right. And I I want like my calorie allocation. I want it to the stuff that's like the once a year stuff. It's like your green bean casserole, your, your, your, your, your, your mom's sweet, but like, let me have, it's only once a year that you're going to have that. Why am I having a Parker House roll or those roles are good. They play, you can know, they stop up the gravy and stuff, but that's, I'd rather have

the gravy on the other things. I'm always out on rolls. To me, rolls are the run into the middle of line on the first down. Like, what's the point? We're still, we're still, we're still going to have to throw it to get a first down. Why do we do that? Negative EPA. Yeah.

I might get an offensive lineman hurt. A million things I could go wrong. What's your eating schedule on? So you're just eating constantly. Yes, I'll wake up. I'll start eating savory. I'll have coffee in the morning. Whatever the first game comes on at noon.

And I'll have, I'm traveling this year. I'm not going to be with my mom. So my mom's an pasta is like 1230. It's halfway through the second quarter of the first game. That's the house tradition. But I will figure out, you know, a way to get a version of it. And just I'll start having plates starting at halfway through the second quarter because How many hours since your last meal before Thanksgiving?

Do you try to go like 15, 16 hours? No, it doesn't matter. At this stage, you know, we're professionals. I don't need to like starve myself in advance. I like to do early dinner the night before. Nice empty stomach. Great. Then move in right around that first, end of the first game, West Coast time.

Great. But then the second meal around 7.30 range. I'm not in eat all day. I'm like a eat. Can't believe how much I ate. I want to throw up. Should I throw up? Where's the tums?

I don't want you to do that. I'll have a glass of red wine. Don't eat so much that you have to, where you feel that way. And then the second wave around 7.7.3. Eat before you think you're full. Before you, before your brain tells you, you're full. stop eating. That's how you can eat once an hour.

I'm getting that advice from you. You've over-eat more than anybody I've ever met my lives. I can eat all throughout the day. Remember, I saw you pass out in a phone booth that didn't have a phone once because you ate too much.

What's the thing that defines me, though? Everybody else has stopped eating. True. And I continue to eat. Long-distance runner. There you go. Yeah. You're like the rabbits and the marathon,

they come and go and you're just still chugging away, putting the eight-minute miles together. I can't wait. I can't believe we have three interesting football games in a row. It's going to be outrageous. This hasn't happened since we were like in college. How about four? You know, we lively, all Bears fans are going to be super mad because we've been, I'll put my hand up.

I've been down on the Bears all season, super skeptical. And we just like said, Eagles in Monty Line Eagles were not. We gave no discussion whatsoever with the Bears. Here's why we didn't give a discussion. Here are their last one, two, three, three, four, five, six, seven wins. They'd be Gino Smith, Marriota, Rattler, Flacko, the Dart Wilson combo, J.J. McCarthy, and Mason Rudolph.

Congratulations. I mean, it's literally what Washington did last year. That was Washington's run. I don't think you're going to beat the Eagles after a loss on Black Friday at some weird time of the day. In Philadelphia. In Philadelphia, I just don't see it happening. Yeah.

But you might keep it close. That's why we did the money line. Anyway, happy Thanksgiving. Best to you and yours. Great to see you house. Amazing. Great job. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.

It's week three of Canadian tires early Black Friday sale. These prices won't go lower this year. Maybe too long. Freezing. Save up to 50% November 20th to 27th. Conditions apply, details online. All right, Chris Ryan is here. We're taping this on a Monday.

We just did a rewatchable with Sal that by the time you hear this went up, the two for the money. And then we thought, because we were sitting here, we'd talk about Landman, which I know you're excited about. But very much. I want to talk about Philly's sports, which you're not as excited about. No, because I don't like it when you put me in the Philly Cuck Chair. I want you to bring me on when you want to celebrate Philadelphia.

I don't always want to have to answer the question. Would you call it the Philly Cuck chair? Yeah, I don't always want to come on and be like, Joe Allen Bede's knee is not doing great. You know, we're like. But the Sixer stuff's going great. The Sixer stuff is, they're my heart. I love them so much. I have such an uncomplicated relationship.

We'll start there. Let's talk about this rejuvenated kind of Sixers' future, even though you have two of the worst contracts in the league, but somehow everybody's good with it. And also, like, even the two guys who have the worst contracts seem to be enjoying themselves, which I would, too, if I was making that money and sitting on a bench for most of the time. But the young core of this team is so delightful and so awesome to watch. Maxie moving up the ladder for most popular Phillies sports athletes in a while. If I watch him without my glasses on and I see the black uniform, it looks Iversonian sometimes. Come on.

It kind of does. Like, he's so electrifying. The minutes is crazy. Terrifying. with the way he plays. Yes. Where it's just like, this dude's going to do this 41 minutes a night?

And the answer is yes, he actually is. He's been, I mean, he's a second team NBA guy, maybe even in the running for first team right now. Yeah. And they have just like, they're obviously just scraping together a team from what they have in terms of like it's Maxine, Edgecombe and Grimes. And then like whatever night they have,

it's like Barlow or whoever they have to throw out there in the front court. But I don't know. It's just like they play fun games. it's the cardiac sixers. A lot of tight games, a lot of clutch games. Lick's been swinging a little bit. Yeah, and it's a really good league pass. I mean, Edgecombe came a little bit down to earth,

but not like so much that you're like, oh, that was a fluke. Like, he's obviously going to be a really, really amazing player. Any C C Cinniple should we have taken C C Cineple at 3? I don't have any Cinepple should we have taken C C Cinepple. Yeah. I want to make sure. Yeah, I think you're a little bit of a C C Cinniple bubble.

Caniple's made the most threes of any Rook. ever through 12 games or something. Sounds great. Nipple's doing great. No, I like Edgecombe. That's a good battle. I mean, it's a great, it's a great rookie class. Ben and I bought a bunch of boxes from this class for the, for, for cards because I

love this class and I didn't even realize how deep it was going to be. But it's like, this has a chance to be one of the generational classes. The Edgecombe with Maxi, I think, pushes it over the top because there are these two guys that clearly compliment each other in like the best possible ways. And you can see, like, this is, like, the foundation of we can now build a team around this. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes.

Like, I know what this is now for the next seven years, but you just have to wait out the Embed piece. Yeah, and Edgecombe really excites me because even when he's got games where he's not fully involved or it's not going right for him, he doesn't quit on the game. Like, he'll still do lots of little things. Yeah. Grab an offensive rebound, do a hit a head past. Like, it's just, he's just a really fun basketball player watch. Yeah, he can, there's some rookies that if they're not doing well from a scoring standpoint, they're pretty much useless in the game.

But he's still around, like he rebounds, he moves without the ball. The maxy thing, you know, I don't know what the sample size would have to be before we start talking about him in the territory with Brunson and Mitchell and Booker and people like that. But it's, it's, we're probably like 10 more games away from him just being in that group. especially if he keeps playing games or he's the best player on the court on both teams. You know what I mean?

Everyone says he's the best fucking guy. Doc was saying this forever. So beloved in Philly. Yeah. Like is already probably, I'd say, top two or three, if not the number one,

Philly athlete, right now. It's so weird. It's so weird how all this works out where you think it's going to be, it's the process with Embed and Simmons and then Maxi's this post-Lattery pick, right?

A bunch of teams pass on them. And that ends up being the guy. Yeah. Yeah, that ends up being the guy you're going to have for 15 years. I actually just feel bad for Embed because he can't participate in this. You know, or like he can't participate in it consistently. Like, you know, he was getting back or not anywhere close to his old self, but numbers-wise was doing pretty decently per minute.

And PG had like a really nice game the other night. I think it was the, he was on a minute's limit against the bucks, but had like a really good. I saw some PG. By the way, he's not a disaster. No, of course. Like, he'll definitely help whatever's going on. It's just like, are those guys ever going to be healthy together? Right.

With Maxie Edge, Coleman Grimes. Probably not. Right. I mean, so OKC has your pick, but the team's going to probably be good enough. There's already, there's three teams in the East that have already said, we're done. Yeah. And Charlotte will be the fourth. I don't know what the Celtics.

The Celtics keep winning every time I think they're about to go in a seven-game tailspank. I thought we were talking about Philadelphia. Well, but it seems like there's 11 East teams, right? So we're trying to decide who's real, yeah. Even if Philly was like, you know what, we're actually going to tank so that we don't want to give OK Sierra pick. I think it's too late.

I don't think they can like afford to tank with the fan base. I think they have to play. Or with Max, if you have Maxi playing like this, you can't tank. No. You can't shut that down. I got to bring it up.

Do we have to give Darrell some props here? Yes. Darrow is being fired for two years. But he picked Maxie, right? or was Maxx already there? No, he picked Maxie. I think he picked Maxie, yes. He picked Maxie.

He picked Edgecombe. He picked Edgecombe. And he finds good... By the way, he tanked so that they would be in position it. They audibled quickly enough that it actually paid off, which I'm not sure everybody would have done. All the side stuff, like the Grimes trade was a great trade. Yes. And then holding his powder dry to like sign Grimes for like the number that they got him back.

Like not blinking when Grimes was like, I'm 25. million a year and getting freaked out by that and like just kind of wading that out was really good. The mistake was not trading Embed when he could have. I think there was a moment with the Knicks pre when before they went all in on the towns and like this whole CAA team that they have now. I think especially because Embed was their old client before they trade all those picks for bridges. I think there was a monster in B. Trade to make. He was a house of cards. He was. It's an antiquated, an acronistic idea or whatever, but like trading your franchise player

in division is very, would have been, that would have been a real death sentence for Daryl, I think. Would you have been like, why are we doing this? Or would you have been like, oh, that's pretty smart?

No, I just would have been like, I can't believe I have to watch Joel and B go to like the Eastern Conference finals or the finals on the Knicks after all the years that we kind of like emotionally invest in it. That makes sense. Well, they're in a, you know,

these contracts, whatever, you know what the heart of the team's going to be. You know you have like one of the, one of the best 12 to 15 assets in the league in Maxie. Also, you wait out the NBJourgson. With or without Joel, if we make the playoffs,

it's like a really cool, like you probably would rather not see them in the playoffs kind of team. Yeah, especially if Mbid puts it together for like 5 to 10. Like if they wind up being the 8th seed, like, or the 7th seed,

like, would, is Cleveland or Detroit could be a little nervous to play them? I kind of feel that way about the Celtics. Oh. Well, just like if Tatum comes back in mid-February. Right. Right. And they're able to get like 20- Have you decided on the number or the record that you would accept him coming back versus being like, just take a year off, bro?

They're hitting this danger zone with this season. Like, even if they started tanking now, everybody's made, done so much work on the tanking ahead of them. Yeah. I don't know how they pass some of these teams. Sweet teams in the East that you're not catching now. Right. Indiana is just going to come up with all kinds of reasons to lose games. from now on. And then the other two are terrible.

Right. I don't know. Unless there's some sort of injury, Memphis, I'll be interested to see what happens with them, where they throw the hat in the ring. But the Utah will at some point start going backwards. But then some of these other teams, like Phoenix

was a team I thought was going to be in the bottom eight and they're not probably there yet. Dallas, I still don't believe, is going to be a tank team. No. It's like kings, Pelicans. Pelicans are the one because they're going to play their young guys but they don't have their pick

that pick goes to Memphis right that pick goes to Atlanta Atlanta yeah so there's still some tanking stuff up in there but I thought the tailspin the Seltz had this awful loss to Brooklyn on Friday and I was like here we go

oh you went to that game right no my dad did he was like furious he said it was one of the worst games he's been to this decade and then they Orlando doesn't play any of their guys and they went on a Sunday

so I think it's a zigzagged situation But this draft, I think the more people watch the draft, they're going to go nuts. What's been your favorite old school CR kind of NBA story through five weeks, not kind of the bomber stuff? Like, are you like deep Damon Jones in it right now? Old school CR like kind of like a kind of like a dirty story or kind of like a feel good story. Dirty. I think it's just watching what's happening, the Clippers. Yeah.

and just how even if Hardin scores 51, they're just in a dogfight every night. And not that I wish this on them, but it is, it kind of almost feels like a throwback season of like these just really, there's a couple really gross bad teams really early. Like the Kings thing is just like almost unwatchable

on a night-to-night basis. And then somehow they beat Denver. Yeah, I know. Right as it felt like it was an all-time slip away for them. Yeah, it doesn't feel like a lot of teams can, other than Oklahoma and Detroit and a couple other places, they can't get any traction.

Like, even Yolkich coming out and being like, we're not as good as we think we are. Right. And Gordon getting hurt, it kind of puts a pause on their season. The Golden State stuff is so strange. Butler already starting to kind of

do cryptic quotes about people defending. It's a strange year so far. And nobody seems to think they practice. So I'm looking at the standings. Brooklyn, Indiana, and Washington are all three wins and less. Charlotte's 4 and 13th. So those are four tank teams.

New Orleans is 2 and 15. I don't see that changing. Sacramento is 4 and 13. This is on Monday. Then it goes Dallas, Clippers, Utah, Memphis. Probably two of those fall. But yeah, the league's so deep now,

these teams that you think, oh, they're probably going to suck. But then you watch Phoenix, and they have like a bunch of NBA players in their team, like Grace and Allen, Mark Williams, Royce O'Neill. Playing together. And they're playing hard.

They seem like they give them. a shit about each other. I'm the most interested in this whole, wherever this gambling story goes. Really? Yeah. So, Billen's just played. Win Horse did a big

Damon Jones feature today, which I read obviously. Yeah. He's just crossed past with a lot of teams and a lot of people. And, you know, depending on how much he knows, like that, I keep thinking about Goodfellas.

Like, Henry Hill flips at the end, right? So is Damon supposed to be Mori in this case? I think he's Henry Hill. Yeah, okay. It's like, oh, no, they got Damon. I just don't know where it goes. And the Chauncey thing is nuts. I feel like we haven't talked about this enough.

This guy coached the first game of the year. We haven't seen him since. He's being like a rain. He's in all these games. But I feel like there actually hasn't been enough, like, reporting about this, maybe because we can't find what the actual facts are. But I think this is a bonkers story.

Yeah, is it my imagination, or is the NBA's been pretty, like, poker-faced about this? like, they're just like, we're investigating. Like, there's not been a, we're in a crisis moment. Like, we need to have, like, an independent investigation into this. Like, are they doing that? Like, I don't feel like we've seen a lot of, like, Adam Silver press conference,

Adam Silver TV interviews about this stuff. Because I think it's more contained to the poker games. Right. But if there's situations where people have information, they're passing along, it's the thing that the league can't police. Yeah. I think for the most part, pretty good NBA season so far. The games have been really good.

They happen. Remember, Houston on Friday night, it was spectacular. The injuries suck, but I think that they're pretty, they're looking, they're pretty soberly. It's like, look, the, like, the sports just changed so much in the last couple of years that these guys. Yeah, but they have to, I say this all the time, they have to cut games out of the schedule. We're at that point now. I think it's too hard to play basketball, though.

I've been to four games and four different arenas, and it's the thing that jumps out all the time, like how hard these guys are going. And they're covering so much of the floor. Compared to the. NBA we grew up with, and I know Eddie Johnson doesn't want to hear it, but I just, you can watch any of those games on YouTube. Yeah. There's a certain type of body that you were able to jog around, take some plays off.

There's a lot of standing around, a lot of posting up. It was more physical, but you were more in danger of, like, having your nose broken. Sure. You weren't in danger of, like, having this, all this Achilles calf stuff, Davis getting hurt, and then now teams realizing, like, hey, this could lead to this. Yeah. this feels relatively new to me the amount of like probably

preemptive like let's pull this guy out for a couple weeks because he's in the red zone it seems like they're taking it really seriously especially after Halliburton and Tatum how about all the streaming stuff with Amazon Peacock ESPN and all these different

like just figuring out where games are on I end up just going to the NBA app to because that will send you to the game anyway yeah I mean I have enjoyed enough the league pass experience on Amazon so far but I think when it gets into the national

games and when it's like is this on Peacock is this on NBC is this on it just it's kind of sad like I don't think that we like necessarily deserve to have every single basketball game for free I mean that's not how we grew up

you would basically watch your team and I've I've tried more or less just like watching the Sixers as much as I possibly can so I've probably watched I don't know like 10 Sixers games 13 Sixers games. So I'm trying to keep it more like as Sixers play people.

That's how I see them. But it is really frustrating when you're home on like a Wednesday night and you're just like, oh my God, you need like all these different services just to get like a complete picture of the league. Yeah, I got a mailbag question that I didn't use from somebody who said, is the NBA now being marketed to the 1%. Right. If you get the league pass, it's like 160 bucks, right?

But you get, I think you get all the games. Yeah, there's some blackout. rules, but yes. Yeah. I would say the NFL is more guilty of that. The Sunday ticket is like three times the size of that, right? Even though they have some games on for free, but I just think this is the business of sports now. Yeah.

Could they maybe all charge less and then make less money? Sure. Sure, but they're not going to do that. Guess what? They're not doing that. It's the same reason we have 82 games and not 72. Who is I talking to the other day? I would give this person credit about

they never talk about making the NBA schedule longer which is how you know it's too long because if they could be... Nobody's like, could we get this to 86? People would be like, what are you guys doing? The most they could do was the NBA Cup. Do you think the Cup's going to, are they going to keep doing it? Or do you think that they're going to...

Oh, yeah, Amazon bought in. Yeah. I just don't know what the answer is to get people to actually care other than, well, the courts are weird. Right. But like, do you care? I don't know that the sixers got bounced out. Did you care?

I don't think that the group stage stuff is working. I think that people in Champions League, you know, they've changed the group's, the group model significantly in the last couple of seasons and it's helped a little bit. But I think that if the NBA probably wants to make this like a huge product, they might have to introduce elimination earlier. Which I don't know if the teams would go forward.

What do you mean? Like if you lose the first game to whoever, you're just gone. You're gone. You're done. Now, you might have some teams basically tanking the cup because they're like, cool. Maybe we get some nights off here and there. But I just feel like if you want to make this exciting, you should introduce the idea of it being tournament basketball. You shouldn't make it just like another game. And they're tied 1-1 and Group D with points differential coming into play. Like, that doesn't really like stir people up that much.

Yeah, it's year three. And I still don't know why the players ultimately care other than the extra money. Yeah. And that's really it. But ultimately, you want to make the best players in the team care. I'm sure they care a little bit, but you don't... Everyone keeps sending me the draft pick idea, and I just don't think the players would ever care. Oh, if we win this... Oh, could my GM get another draft pick to draft my replacement?

Right. Why would that ever be an incentive? I did think of one thing, though, I'll test drive this with you. Okay. With the cup. The problem is I can't figure out how you would do the tiers. But if it's a team that wins the Cup and it's one of the 10 best teams in the league when they win the Cup, they're automatically guaranteed a four seed in their conference. Interesting. So they know from that point on, we're at least home for round one because we won the Cup.

Right. But you have to be in the top 10. If you're not in the top 10, if you're from 11 to 20 at the time of the Cup, you're guaranteed a playoff spot. you're guaranteed the sixth seed. Oh, yeah. And then if you're from the 21 to 30 range, you're guaranteed to be in the play-in in the seven-seat spot. No matter what happens. Yeah, you're guaranteed the home game seven-seed spot

even if you're like New Orleans and you're a two and 15. You win. Now you get to be in the seven-speed. You can actually control your playing destiny. Would that affect the New Orleans draft slot, though? Wouldn't affect it. It wouldn't affect it.

wouldn't because the record would still be. So when that basically encouraged New Orleans to essentially throw every game that they have left because then you get into the play-in but you also get the number one pick or have the best odds of getting the number one pick? The 21 and the 30 teams would never win the cup. Sure.

So it's usually going to be the best teams anyway. So if you're like, I don't know, think you're like the Bucks or you're Cleveland, it's like you might not actually be a top five seed. Yeah. Or you might actually be, now it's like I'm guaranteeing being a four seat.

I just think it would be a fun. I just think they should run it more like the League Cup or the F.A. Cup in Premier English football, where it's just like on the, there's certain weekends that are cup weekends and if you lose your out. And I think, you know, they, you know, obviously they have like if you draw, you have a replay for the FAA Cup, but you wouldn't do that in basketball. But I think it would be cooler if there was just a little bit more danger involved. If it was a 60 game schedule and we had the cup, I think it would work so much better.

Yes. There's just too many games. It's hard to be in the whole reason the playoffs matter because people care about it. I still feel like at least it's a little different. It accomplished the objective of in December, in November. Like, oh, yeah, that's this game. It kind of means this. Yeah, that Denver Houston game on Friday was fun.

The Red Court, like pretty high-level basketball. And then Portland was next. And they were in that. And I was looking at that bracket. I'm like, whoa, that's quite a bracket. It wasn't like I was texting you. Did you see Group C? Yeah.

Group C is loaded. Yeah. That's the group of death. Yeah. Speaking of death, Landman, our favorite show is back. We've seen two episodes of season two. And so John Ham in January, when we were trying, we saw him for the fantasy football thing. And we were like, are you coming back?

Because it was unclear of his character, dad, and I was like, no, no, I'm done. And he said how Taylor Sheridan had set this whole thing up. So Demi Moore was in a few scenes in season one and just seemed like, why is she in this? Yeah, why is she swimming laps in the background of this scene? And he was saying, because Taylor Sheridan set this up, season one was my season, and then season two was the Demi season. Right.

I think she's been awesome. She's been a lot of fun. Her first couple scenes in the first episode, I thought were homeless. She's just doing John Hamm, too. It was like in a very fun way, but where she's just like talking about the Saren Getty and how she's going to underbid people's leases and all this stuff. And the only difference between me and my husband is I'm meaner. Yeah.

It was just playing the head. She looks great. I thought her Texas accent was surprisingly good. Pretty good. Yeah. I had that was like five to one odds. She was going to have a good accent. But I thought she was excellent. I thought Billy Bob and Alley Larder have completely figured out their whole thing.

So how do you feel about, though, when it's like the Alley Larder 12-minute dinner scene. I'm in. You like it. Do some people not like it? Yeah. I mean, I like it for how crazy it is, but it is truly like unhinged television

when they're just like, we're going to do an entire 12-minute scene about my menstrual cycle and white truffles. But I think that's what they're trying to do. It's like when she comes in, fucking safety off. Yes. And we don't know where this is going.

I don't even feel like the actor's nowhere. it's going, like, they're all just sitting there at the dinner table just like, what the fuck is happening? So it makes me wonder, like, I don't know how Bob Taylor Sheridan is in these shows after he sets them up and writes the first season. He's writing this one. Yeah. Man's, like, pretty huge show. So he definitely has some thoughts about marriage.

Yeah. And I'm not sure if he just thought it would be fun to take this angle or these are really, because Billy Bob will have, he did this in episode too. He has these, like, he's telling it, giving his son advice about how to do with women. and it's almost like cutting too close to home. It makes me wonder,

is this what Taylor Sheridan and all of his thoughts are? Billy Bob's his proxy for relationships. I'm sure he is his proxy. I don't know about what Taylor Sheridan's marriage is like. The thing I like the most about this show is that it doesn't really seem to play by that many rules. So it'll be like Cooper, this son on this show.

Oh, I really like. And he's Jacob Lofun's a really good actor, but he will be like, you're like, so this guy has basically been on an uninterrupted role since his friends died in the rig in the first season. He's wound up with this girl. It wound up being able to be with her because they've successfully warned off

like her friends and family members who were against it. Then he digs these wells by like reasoning with these guys to get their leases. Yeah. All of the wells hit. And you're like, where's the conflict in this character? Is he just going to be like... Oh, we're getting the conflict.

Every Hail Mary he throws is a touchdown. and then we find out this week that off-screen there's been some shenanigans and this is probably just Taylor Sheridan being like it's never too late to course correct something

or to throw a curveball and this kid needs this kid needs like an obstacle so we're going to bring in the cartel as his silent partner and is financing these leases yeah

it just looks so easy to just go down to Texas and borrow some money from people and drill some land and just be like Like, what people don't realize is the land that people thought the oil got, but they already thought they tried it out. But what they don't realize is the oil is higher now.

I was like, that sounds like sense. The second episode was great because Tommy was like, what the hell is wrong with you? Like, why didn't you come to me about this? Like, you could have, what would have happened if this had all gone wrong, you know? And I think that will be like a really good plotline for the rest of the season. Yeah, and Billy Bob's done great. Then we have this whole Sam Elliott. So far, two scenes.

Both at sunset, both in a wheelchair. We'll see if Sam Elliott. Is Sam Elliott actually in a wheelchair in real life? Or what's going on? Well, he did say that he had gotten injured shooting 1883 and that he has had like physical stuff since then, but that this was a part that he really wanted to play. So I'm hoping now with the funeral coming up for Billy Bob's mother

that we'll get some mobile Sam Elliott out of the world. She sounded like a prize. Yeah. Do you think Sam Elliott moves into the house with everybody else? Yeah. I've signed up for Sam Elliott this season. I need him in more scenes. We saw, it was at dinner in Malibu, like a year and a half ago, and Sam Elliott was in the bar.

It was at this place. There's a steak place there, and they have this place where there's, like, tables, but you can also see the bar. And Sam Elliott came in and sat at the bar, and it was like the most Sam Elliott thing. All the women were like, Sam Elliott, like, women love Sam Elliott, handsome dude, like exactly what you would think. and he's just having like a scotch and soda. That guy has lived a life. That's great. Yeah.

So I don't, maybe in Landman, they're taking it week by week, not knowing if he's going to be there. So you're watching Landman, you watch Beast and Me. What else do you watch right now? We're done with Landman?

No, we keep talking about Landman. What other characters are there? We did Cooper. We did Tommy. Well, you know, they haven't figured out

Billy Bob's son's living girlfriend. No, but she actually like was like, hey, I don't know if I'm signing up for this. I feel like he's going to make a big speech and turn around. I wouldn't mind if we got rid of her

and he ended up with he started to play in the field a little bit on Landman. I don't really want anybody attached on Landman. Even Billy Bob and Alley Larger. Does anyone have to date anyone in Landman? You just be like an all open relationship.

Yeah, I think it should be all like the Ice Storm. Just don't know what's going to happen said in Texas. But yeah, I don't like that plot that much. I'm glad he's a nice guy who wants to be a decent fake stepfather. I think he's trying to be the opposite of his dad, you know? Yeah, it's cool. Play the field a little.

You're like, do we know how old he is too? Who? Cooper? Yeah. I think Cooper's supposed to be like in his late 20s. He's out of Texas Tech, maybe mid-20s. He's been doing geology at Lubbock, but now he's probably a couple years out of school. And the daughter. Mid-20s.

Who I thought was great in the first episode. I love the college. The TCU stuff? Yeah, so I think she has. You're trying to encourage Ben to go to TCU? After this show, no. Yeah, so Landman, I love Beast and me. Yeah.

I thought that was a home run. I'm midway through that now. Yeah, I thought that was really good. There's been some good documentary stuff. That one kind of reminds me a little bit of like, really good early, like, FX and Netflix thrillers. I was going to say like early 2010 showtime. Bloodline, you know, like damages.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's Howard Gordon. Yeah. We did Homeland and 24 and stuff. Yeah. Reuniting with Claire. She's really good.

Would have been an interesting call. Yeah. Conviting her to do it. No, no, this character's different than the other ones. Yeah, this is a different one for you. That one's been really good. I feel like TV's had a really nice run this year. Yeah, it's, we're about to do our best of the year in a couple weeks,

and it's one of the easier top tens. The cream is really like, Obviously the cream for this season. Somebody sent me a tweet that it was the 2000, it was a video of the 2014 Best Actor Emmy nominees. And the caption of the tweet was something like we really knew how to make TV in 2014.

Was it like Cranston, Ham? It goes through, it's Cranston, it's Ham, it's Kevin Spacey and House of Cards. Who else was that year? Would that have been a Thrones year? Oh, two true defense, both, True Detective guys. It's like when you're watching,

it's like, oh my God. It's like this murderers, bro. That was the height of Greenland. Just for like TV coverage where we just couldn't believe we had all these shows. Yeah, it's tough. We're in a different era now.

But it's like there are successful shows like Lehmann's like got 9 million viewers, which is really good or 10 million viewers or whatever. But it just feels it gets talked about differently and people watch it on their own time now. They've completely broken the idea of like watching something on the night. it comes out, unless it's like task finale or whatever.

Yeah, but even that, White Lotus was the last, like, Sunday night, this is the time it's on. But even that, like, my daughter didn't watch it when it was on. I think you have a whole generation of people now that, that, though, the one difference is, so I notice this with my daughter. So my term pretty, which was dropping on Wednesday nights at two in the morning. Yes, I was participating. East Coast time. And were you actually participating? My wife is a huge summer I'm a pretty fan.

So it was like 11 o'clock on the West Coast. Yes. My daughter was in college. Up all night waiting for it to come on. There was one time where she stayed up for whatever the drop was. I thought that was interesting. And I think the stranger things Wednesday will be a big one. That'll be big, but I think that they, this is almost indicative of what I'm talking about,

where they're playing to the idea that everybody's going to be off work and we'll have time to watch five hours or six hours. hours of Stranger Things over the course of like a night or two, whereas like before we would just be like, no, do the one hour on a Sunday night so that we can talk about it all week. Yeah, but this has been the Netflix conundrum for 10 years. But it's like even if they put Stranger Things out on a normal like kind of media schedule where if it had dropped two weeks ago, you know, you would have just had so much more coverage of it. I think people will cover stranger things a lot, but it's, they're kind of circumventing

like the talking about it part. I don't know the answer and it almost depends on the show. Because I think there's some binge stuff that, like, Beast at me was a perfect binge show. Not a show I want to watch week to week. Yeah, it wasn't quite, although it was a really good show. But I like the ability to just plow through it. There were like 40, 43-minute episodes. Yeah.

It really was a six-episode show. But they kind of extended out. Cut shorter. But, you know, we always look at it from our, the Grant Lamb-Ringer vantage point of we just want content. Sure. So White Lotus was perfect. Yeah, and then you get shows like... Task was perfect.

Perfect. And then every once in a while, you get like adolescence, you know, where it's just like out of nowhere, somehow everybody is talking about this show that's been on Netflix for a couple of days and everybody watches it. But the Garfield assassination show. Death by Lightning, really good. That's a perfect binge, though.

Yes. I don't think that should have been, we're in a space of Saturday every four weeks. When you go to like... But they crucially didn't make that into like an eight-episode show. Right. They were like, this has like, we're going to tell like a very contained story here.

I thought the marketing of it was really interesting too. The marketing kind of they snuck it out. The Game of Thrones guys were involved. Yeah. They didn't really play that up. They kind of put it out, but it did really well, it seemed like. But I didn't feel like there was a lot of buzz at all, whereas like the stranger things. Do you watch Pluribus at all?

Have you checked it out? I'm going to. That's on my list. I don't, I feel like this is a combo of sports culture thing, but. Everybody's just better at spreading out the content and picking weekends so that it's kind of relentless now. Oh, yeah. There would be stuff, I think like back 10, 12 years ago

where we just had weekends where there was no new movie, no TV show to watch, and no sports on. Yeah. We're like, ah, fuck. And now you're like, I feel like I'm already really behind on awards movies. And the TV stuff I'm on top of,

but it still is like, it's piling up for sure. Pretty much after Stranger Things, fallouts coming out, the year is pretty quiet for TV until January when industry comes back yeah because in sports the uh and this was a big neck con thing for UFC and w w like just that whole that whole company that runs that stuff they really studied the schedules of we shouldn't be putting wrestling mania out on this weekend why don't we do this weekend it's a little more dead why don't we have this boxing thing in the third weekend in august because that's a dead weekend so now it just

feels like we just go from week to week and there's always like a new thing. And I think the big thing for me, we haven't talked about it on this podcast, but I know you've talked about on the watch a bunch, but Paramount, what happens with them if they can get Warner Brothers or if Comcast can get Warner, whoever gets it, are they, are one of those people going to be a disruptor? Because right now I don't feel like we have disruptors in the same ways. Where Netflix is figured out their lane. Amazon is basically doing. like they're into sports. They have YA.

They do a lot of dad shows. And dad shows for specifically my dad, like Bosch and those things. So I think that the one thing I would know about the Paramount stuff is that Cindy Holland is now essentially running their TV business. Yeah. And she was the person who kind of was the architect of Netflix's early TV strategy and has really, really well-guarded taste. So she was the one who brought in House of Cards and Orange and New Black, all this shows. So I think that some of those first decisions that she's been. making have been really interesting with Paramount. I don't know what happens if they

acquire Warner Brothers. I mean, I think HBO is really the crown jewel of well, we'll do the players, right? Netflix, we know what they are. Every week they have something. Apple has these shows. They always have big stars. They're either a movie or a TV show. But it's a closed circuit. Their shows don't go out. They don't get licensed anywhere. It's a global service, but at the same time, it's one that I think lots of people don't even know that they have if they've got it or don't. don't even know how to... And they have stuff that comes and goes

and you didn't even know it happened. Yes. Like real movies with famous people. No, there's a show on right now called Down Cemetery Road with Emma Thompson and Ruth Wilson, which is pretty good. But it's like, I don't think I've seen a single outside of Apple piece of advertising for it. And then the studio, which I think we all were fairly high to pretty high on

on the ringer. I also think that was a New York, LA show. I don't think anyone... I think that they're fine with a New York L.A. show. And it hit the awards that did everything they'd want, but it wasn't a big audience show. Severance, they claim is a big audience show, but I don't know how big of an audience it is. I think Severance and Pluribus have both kind of like moved into a larger, like theories, fan theories and also like a larger Beyond Apple thing. Pluribus is a good one by our standards where we can get the content out of it every week, I think.

But yeah, so you have them, you have Paramount, which is basically moved into this Taylor Sheridan. kind of world. They just lost Taylor. I know, but they don't lose them for three years. Yeah, but like, that's, I do wonder whether that's a little bit, like, yeah, that's right. Mark Cuban, you can still be the governor, you know? Right, right, right. At what point does Taylor Sheridan start offloading some of those shows to, like,

protégés or people who are like now writing Mayor of Kingstown or Y Marshals or whatever? And he starts to go to work at least somewhat on his peacock stuff. the fact that Comcast got Taylor Sheridan makes me think that Comcast thinks they're major players for another 10 years buying the NBA rights having the Olympics

getting Taylor Sheridan that makes me think that they are really like going they're going to go after I think they're really going after those Warner assets right and maybe getting at least half of them

so it feels like we're about to hit disruption gang because right now everybody seems too comfy in Hulu we didn't mention them but Hulu I'm not it's Hulu plus FX and they have stuff like It's the Murdoch murders

by the way I watched that I enjoyed But don't you think of a certain point that just becomes Tiles on Disney Plus Like won't they want to choose So Hulu is probably a loser And then Peacock

I guess needs to be supercharged by whatever happens with NBC Universal and folded in but I do think this I think this whatever happens coming forward with all these assets

from the Warner Brothers is going to supercharge somebody. I just don't know who. Yeah, and it's a question of whether or not, like, for instance, so Sean and Amanda were talking about this today. If Netflix were to buy Warner Brothers, do they still commit to the way like releasing movies? Or

if they were to buy Warner Brothers, do they also buy HBO? Are they buying the HBO? Brain Trust in HBO becomes like basically a tile on Netflix? I don't know how that stuff works. I don't see it. Netflix has never bought. anything.

So you think they're just doing their due diligence? I think it's, I think what they would want is the library. Yeah. And the IP. It's my understanding.

Yeah, you get the Warner Brothers, you just get all of these movies that are now just on Netflix and you just have them. I think HBO, however this plays out, HBO ends up on its own

somewhere carved out. I think, the biggest thing that's happened in the last five years is HBO kind of got its mojo back as an entity. Sure. Because it really felt

like Zazloff was trying to ruin it. It's like, no, no, it's only a part of this bigger thing we have and max. I also think TV is getting back to being TV again post-COVID post-strikes, which is really worth keeping in mind when we say the sky is falling is that a lot of people's, like, sort of changing relationships to television was, in fact, a ripple effect of COVID and the strikes. That's where like the three years in between seasons starts coming in.

That's when, and now it's like the pits coming back on in like January or February. It's a big success. These shows, like these Taylor Sheridan shows usually come back once a year. So, like, we're starting to get back into TV as something that is like repeatable on an annual basis, not something that's like an event every three or four years. Everyone I know who tries to sell shows or make shows says the combo of COVID and the strikes changed the equation for the urgency these places had to actually green light shows. Right.

And that we're just making less stuff across the board. and people are just more careful versus maybe Apple's not being as careful, but people are careful for the most part of what they're greenlighting, how long those things are going to be, how many seasons, and it's still kind of shaking out. So the Paramount thing, I think, is the most interesting wrinkle as we head into the second half of the 2020s. How much are they just going to completely blow up the market for everything?

Are they going to be trying to steal stuff? Also, are they the only people who can get a merger to go through because of the White House? So it's like, I don't know how that stuff works politically and what happens if, like, tides change politically. Still feel like Tommy lies, the summer I turn pretty, stranger things. There's still some massive shows being marketed to people under 30 that are working in real ways. And then there's shows for the over 30 people that I think that both, that stuff's been here. hitting too. I don't know. I'm pretty bullish right now. Yeah, it'll just be interesting to see whether people like

your kids graduate into becoming TV watchers the way we were and like adopt their shows or whether they're just like, this is just like part of the content buffet. Or there's better stuff now. Like I was thinking about when we were kids, they would

show reruns of sitcoms and we would watch them again. Syndication stuff, yeah. No, like on NBC. Oh, right. It's not a new episode of Nightcourt this week. Cheers, cheers again. Yeah. It's like, you already saw it.

It's like, cool. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Yes. I'll watch it again. But that would be your only opportunity to ever watch again. Yeah. But now it's, I don't know, everything is kind of narrowed down.

I still don't, the thing I really want to see how it plays out just for TV and movies is comedy. I think we figured out everything but comedy. Like horror movies are the most back they've ever been. Yes. We, the IMAX and blowing out these big movies on movie screens, you can even. see it in the marketing now. We're like coming on IMAX, March 23rd. And so we figured that out.

We figured out the prestige TV, YA, all these different things. In comedies, we've not figured out. They don't release in theaters anymore at all, right? Nobody goes to see comedies in theater period. Do you think there's a correlation between the popularity of stand-up at any given time and the popularity of

comedy television and movies? In terms of like, are people just going to see stand-up and watching comedy pods rather than watching comedy sitcoms and comedy movies. That's interesting. I just think we don't have the stars. We have really big comedians, though. Yeah, but here's the difference.

I was flying home on JetBlue. The Wi-Fi went. So now I'm stuck with DirecTV, and they have, like, their 20 channels. Beverly Hills Cop is on Wii TV, which I've seen 700 times. I'm like, all right, fine. I'll watch Beverly Hills Cop again.

This is my best option. I can't watch the ESPN Talking Head programming, and there's nothing else. And it's just a great movie, and Eddie's just such a megastar in it. And I just feel like if we had people like that, comedies would be back. Sure. We just need massive people who can carry movies that are really funny, which sounds like, it's like we need a franchise basketball player. Great.

I just don't know who those people are. And you're right. They've kind of drifted towards just doing these stand-up shows. I just think it's pretty lucrative to doing their stand-up and doing their pot. Brazzi. Yeah. Like 30 years ago, Nate Braggazzi is coming up

with his version that everybody loves Raymond and not doing stand-up. Exactly. 1993, Ray Romano is trying to be Nate Bergotsi in 2025. He's not doing

everybody loves Raymond. So TV sitcoms, those have gone out the window. And then that was also like a platform to go into movies. But I wonder with comedies, what is the generation

coming that was shaped by the Apatow movies and Super Bad and all that? Like Craig Horleback's age? Yeah, because when we did the Weird Science pod, me and Kyle, we were talking about how much that movie influenced Superbad, right? Weird Science comes out to 85, Superbad's 2007-2008 range. And the generation that wrote and Superbad enacted in it

was affected specifically by those 80 movies, like Weird Science. That new generation should be coming now for all the people that were affected by Jonah Hill, Bill Hader, Steve Correll, Will Ferrell, Anchorman. That should be transferring, but maybe that just goes to TikTok. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's also like the, that would be around

like the people grew up watching Eastbound and Down and the Danny McBride stuff. Right. That was an unbelievable comedy era. Yeah, and now I think probably the biggest comedy that's on right now is probably a chair company like in terms of like the Tim Robinson show. Is that even a comedy?

Barely. It's more, it's got more in common with like David Ware. Or they or some of those shows. I mean, I think it's funny, but it's, it's a super weird show. Like, it's... Like, I Love LA is interesting. It's not like, you're not laughing. Yeah, I think there's some, like, funny observations in it,

but I don't know that it's like a comedy. Yeah, or like a punchline-driven comedy. Yeah, this is like that Louis show started this, where these shows that were ostensibly comedies, but they're not. Yeah. And this is just where we've been. been 10 years. I still think there's an option for somebody to just be really fucking funny, but you need the stars, unfortunately. Yeah, I think that they, I just don't think, I think it's

become so lucrative to be your own boss and have your own comedy career that you don't want to go and be like, I'm a cop, I'm a fish out of water cop, you know? Right. And it's like, Theo Vaughn's not going to go do that movie. Like, he's doing fine. What comedies would work? I still feel like buddy cop movies still work. Um, but, I'm kind of surprised nobody's done a college comedy in a minute. I'm trying to think of like... Or would that just be on Netflix now?

I guess, but it's also just like, I think that those become TV shows probably, you're right. But we haven't had like a Project X kind of like party comedy in a while, right? Right. Which has traditionally been like a nice place to start from where it's like,

that's like Animal House and like... Right, but do people go see comedies in a movie theater anymore? Do they just wait until they're on? Like, I really wanted to, see the Paul Rood Tim Robinson and I was like

I'll just wait till it's on Amazon well this is this is they've crippled that because like now that's become like the ultimate like it's not exactly

going to see one battle after another I can watch this on my TV whereas you have to see one battle after another yeah you should in the theater yeah yeah

have you seen it how many times have you seen it twice once on IMAX and once at home yeah I'm gonna test drive it at home it's so much

and it's almost three hours that it's you leave and you're just like your head's Also, like, I would say the second time through, because you kind of know the rhythms of it and you know where it's going and you know how much longer their perfidia section is and how much longer the, it really is an awesome second watch and rewatchable movie. Yeah, like some of the stuff I didn't pick up on the first time. I've only seen it once, but just how distinct and deliberate the starts in 2008 ends in 2004 or 24 and just there's so many things.

I just want to watch. Yeah, and there's lots of nuances to, like, the Leo performance and the Benicia performance that are, like, on the second watch, I noticed, like, even just like Leo's vape acting is just elite on the second watch. Yeah, you think he's really vaping the whole time? You must be, right?

I think he's an enthusiastic vapor, yeah. All right. Did we cover everything? I think so. Thanks for popping on by Evergreen BS Thanksgiving Week podcast. Great to see them. Great to see, man. Well, we didn't talk about the Eagles.

Oh, yeah. Probably a good thing, right? Too low stuff? Let's go. Yeah, just quickly. Eight and three and miserable? Yeah, that's what it is. That's, and it's like a, did you ever have a Patriot season like that?

Did you ever an eight and three and miserable? We had a, I want to say it was 2009, 2010. It was after Brady's ACO when they were winning and they were scoring, but you just knew they didn't have it. The only thing that's weird is that I don't know who has it this season. Yeah. Like, it would be one thing if it was eight and three and it's fake and they're about to like lose the bears on Friday.

and it's just like goes downhill. But they could very well turn this around and go to the Super Bowl again. You know, like they get Lane Johnson back. Like there's all sorts of stuff. Like there's ways in which this could go better. Yeah, if you're doing the life depends on a test and you're like what team's coming at the NFC

and granted, I'll give you the Rams. But I don't know how the Eagles aren't the second pick and that comes up, especially with Tampa falling apart. Who else are you taking? Right. Seahawks? Like, I don't know. It reminds me in like the mid-

2000s NFL, like the year we had that Colts Bear Super Bowl, we had that Steelers Seahawks Super Bowl where you're just looking at all these things going. Yeah. Yeah. Like, really? Yeah. You're going to make a Super Bowl with Hasselbeck? Rex Grossman's going to be in there?

Like we might, it might be that crazy. Like it might be like a really flawed Patriots team or, you know, the Bears just get the two seed and so now win round two on a punt return and you're like, really? Yeah. I was watching the lions yesterday and... Another flawed team. And a flawed team, but, like, so exciting and feel so, like, much more fluid

and, like, electrifying than the Eagles. And, you know, Gibbs looks like what Sequin used to look like. But I... They're in nail biters every week, it seems like, you know? So it's just like, I don't really know who's good. Who's your favorite eagle? Oh, Devonzi Smith. Oh.

By far. Is that... Is he like the... See the alternative banning's like the Matthew Sweet of the Eagles. He's like the teenage fan club of the Eagles. All the cool kids. Yeah, the little Demonte Smith. I love Smitty, yeah.

Smitty, we're calling him now? When did that start? I think it's been like his Philly nickname for a minute. Yeah. How many Eagles text threads do you have? One major one with Andy and Zach. That's quite active. Just three of you?

Yeah. Nobody else is invited? That's not even invited. I don't think anybody else would want to like withstand that. just the amount of us scouting other people's offensive coordinators. I have I'm on a Boston sports thread that

hench is on, but I'm also on a Pat's thread with him and one other person. And somehow we don't repeat our takes on the two threads. Each thread has a different energy. A different vibe? The Boston sports thread's a little like happier, and then the Patriots thread is like hardcore. I'm really worried about Gonzalez.

This is the third time he's been beaten by some fringe receiver. It's like getting into that. Oh, God. Yeah. Those are some fun threads. Yeah, I was just telling you, like, I was like, if you go back two years,

we're openly calling for Bobby Slowick to replace Siriani. Oh, and you're on your text search. Yeah, and it's like the certainty with which we were like, it's just a matter of time before Sloick moves into Sirianni's office. And then he goes and wins a Super Bowl.

That would be a fun, I don't know what that would be. Yeah, it would just be like take storage in your text. Yeah, I was wondering, could you pay Apple to just get rid of your terrible sports takes? I'm positive we could beat the Lakers for like 2020. All right, see our great series, always. All right, Tuesday afternoon.

I'm going to finish the podcast with my daughter, Zoe Simmons, who I made come home from college. You resisted. I didn't resist. You're only home for a couple days. You were like, I'm coming home for you. I did come home for you. We should come home for Thanksgiving. You spent every Thanksgiving with us.

Yeah, but I came home for you because I know how bad that you want. Me too. Wasn't, was a mom, just me? It was for mom, too. But mom is less hurt by these sorts of things. You take this stuff to heart. That's my dad's side, though. That's that whole guilt trip.

You're a grudge holder. You're a guilt tripper. I knew if I didn't come home, this would be hung over my head for the next 10 years of my life. I don't know how many more of these I've left. Come on. I mean, really. Let's not even go there. Junior in college.

You'll be 21 in May. Yeah, it's true. For the people listening. For the people listening. You've been coming on this podcast since like 2017. Although, I was thinking about it, ESPN. I had you and Ben saying Rudolph the Red Nose Rindale when you were like little kids. I forgot about that.

It's been quite a journey for us. Stranger Things launching this week, the defining show of your generation. I think it's fair to say. I don't even know what the competition would be. Yeah, I'm with you. It's interesting because your generation is like way scattered, social media, all these influencers. Everybody has all these different things they like and you don't have like the common stuff like my generation ad where we all watch the same shows, movies. but yet everybody watches Stranger Things.

This is the one show like that? There's a few out there. Some of them are like older TV shows that people of my generation have found. Like Gilmore Girls is one of those shows where I think if you're a female within age like 13 to 30, you were just expected to have seen all of Gilmore Girls.

There are a few shows like that, but I think this show, as you were saying, it's so scattered all over the place because with social media and everyone just being aware of what everyone is up to. Yeah. It's easy to just do your own thing and have your own route and, like, be aware of other stuff happening, but not necessarily, like, immerse yourself within it because you just know that it's happening. But this show kind of, like, stop time.

And it felt like everyone had to watch it. And it came out in, what was it, 2012, the first season? No, it was later than that. It was like 20, yeah, 20, I'm going to say. It was a defining year, regardless of when it came out. And every single person that I knew watched it. And we were all, at least for me, the ages of the characters when the first season came out. So it just, it felt like a total, it just took everything over.

Not Millie Bobby Brown's a mom. She's a mom. She's a wife. She's old. They're all old. It's going to be, that's a whole other topic, but interesting how they kind of transferred, how these people have grown up and how many years have been between the last season releasing and then this season. So last season came out my junior of high school and now I'm a junior in college.

Why it takes so long because of COVID? COVID setbacks. The CGI for this show is also just out of control. And the writers strike. Like, there were just a lot of things that happened that set it back. And I'm honestly okay with it because I would rather them do it to the best of their ability as perfectly as they can than just try and pump it out for no reason. I think it also, it taking so long to come out has made people like really excited for it and has given you time to rewatch all of them. Yeah, people keep rewatching them.

Yeah. Because it's a nostalgic, like, for me, it's my first real nostalgic thing. It's like, I watched this show for the first time when I was, like, 12 years old, and now I'm 20, and I'm rewatching all of these episodes and these seasons and remembering things, and it's the nostalgia of it that really gets people, I think. It was even a show you and your brother agreed on, I watched. Everyone I know, though, everyone has an experience with her, like, I remember when I first watched Stranger Things, I remember this happening in my life, this thing happening.

Like, it was just a cultural thing, stranger things. So is there a fear that this isn't going to match up to whatever the hype is? No, I don't think so. Okay. I usually worry about that in terms of shows that have so much hype around them. I think this season's going to be phenomenal. I have no fears about it whatsoever. So I somehow never watched it.

I know. I only saw bits and pieces from when, like, you and Ben were watching it. But you're aware of, like, the cultural, like, stigma that surrounds it. I'm aware of all the stuff that the show bred. I don't actually know what happens. I know it's set in the past. I know it's an homage to all the movies that I loved when I was in the 80s. Yeah.

And 7 has superpowers or something. 11. 11. 11 is a different character. Seven got killed off in season one. We, you don't really know the other numbers. 11's the goat. All right.

So where do we leave off with 11? 11 is Jason Tative of Strider Things. world. Well, season four was this whole other, this show is so confusing to explain to someone that hasn't watched it. So I don't even feel like I can attempt at doing that for you. Okay. Do it in 20 seconds. Okay. Can you do it in 20 seconds? I'm going to try. 11 is a part of this company that is basically trying to breed people to have superpowers so that they can use them to fight other countries in war and combat and things like that. Okay.

So she's a production of this evil hospital. She escapes into the woods and ends up, like, finding her friends that are the Stranger Things cast. So she's, like, escapes from the hospital. And within all four seasons, they're trying to get her back. Okay. So that's, like, a different subplots. But that's not the whole show.

There's so many different subplots. But in season four, it kind of comes to fruition that the number one person who started this entire, like, L was the one who broke the world and basically made it possible for us to enter a whole new dimension, which is the upside down. Yeah. Upside down. And she sent one of her other people from, like, the hospital, number one, into the upside down, and he became a demon that was the king of the upside down and has now come back for

revenge. Oh. So that's the whole different subplot, which is the main part of the show. But then in season one, Will, one of the characters, one of the little boys, gets abducted. So that's kind of how it all starts out. And then 11 comes along. And Will is always kind of like a part of this upside down world because he was abducted and then possessed by the like upside down demons.

That's like the dumbest way I can try and explain a really complicated show too. No, I think I followed it. You got the gist. But this is it. So it's going to end with like 11 saves the world and then the show will end. Right. There's a lot of predictions and like speculations. and, like, speculation as to what's going to happen this season

because we've had some pretty pivotal characters die, beloved characters, you could say, but not any characters that were, like, there from the beginning. Yeah. There's always, like, a new character that's introduced at the beginning of the season. Like, season three, it was Bob, who was Will's stepdad and Joyce's new, like, boyfriend who becomes, like, a really lovable father figure character, and then he gets murder at the end.

It's just devastating. And then this last season, Eddie Munson, who's kind of, like, the leader of this group that they're in the Hellfire Club which the whole show is based off of Dungeons and Dragons like that was the premise. Yeah, I never liked it in the 80s.

I'm not a Dungeons and Dragons girl myself but Eddie was kind of like the ringleader freak of the high school and he ends up being a good guy and then sacrificing himself for the kids but he was the big loss of the last season so this season people, because it's the last season have been speculating

who's going to die. It's a lot of... And they keep it under wraps Like they don't leak it. No one knows anything. Okay. It's like a Taylor Swift situation where it's like there's no, there's no teasers. There's no, it can't be known.

Like it's, everything is kept super under the wraps. But there's a lot of theories floating around. 11's going to die potentially because she's going to have to die in order to save the rest of them. But there's a few pretty significant people in there that I will be absolutely devastated if they die. So what is the number one reason why this show resonated like it did? it's well done because people love the characters because of the mystery of it? Like, what is it?

I think that people, at least for myself, like I have always loved the 80s. It's the entire vibe of the show itself. It makes you feel nostalgic for something that you never even experienced. And I know that you lived through that period. Mom lived through that period. Like all these people that I know and love

and looked up to live through this period. And I think that this show does the best job at like depicting what it was like. And it almost makes you, wish that you could have been living back in the time. Because it was. It really was. I think the outfits, the fashion, the vibe, that's a whole facet of why this show is so popular and why I like to watch it. Outside of that, I'm not a science fiction person, but the way that they've done this show

and every single season has so many different layers, and it's just like, it's so obvious that they had thought so far in advance from the very beginning and all of these pieces coming together, that's what people really like. It's more than just well done, but it's like so well written. It feels like TV doesn't get written this well in this day and age. Well, one of your big passions is how the TV shows always seem to miss stuff that would resonate with your generation. They always get like three things wrong. Right.

And I also like to feel like I'm much dumber than the people that are writing the show. If I can guess exactly what's going to happen way before it happens, it doesn't feel like rewarding. Or maybe you're really smart. Maybe you should be writing shows. But this show, like, you never know what's going to happen. It just feels like this force that's so much bigger than you. As cringe as that sounds, it's like, it really, it does withhold, like, such a power that really no other media or TV or movie has ever done for me unless it was some old stuff

that was produced like 20 years ago. So why did some right turn pretty hit like it did? What was the difference? I think that had immediate nostalgia because for me, I read those books when I was in middle school. And I think a lot of girls my age also did. Those were kind of like the write-of-passage books that you read throughout middle school. So just to see something like that on a big screen was important. I also think using like all current music like Gracie Abrams, Taylor Swift, all these songs that we kind of grew up on. That was super helpful for watching the show. But I think it was

just an easy watch that it came out as summer was ending. So getting to watch it through like the fall period, especially for me, like, playing soccer and needing, like, kind of longing for the summer and, like, relaxing times. They just did a good job at making it an easy watch, and they also made the characters super lovable or hateable. Like, people are still very much in love with Conrad on TikTok, like consistently talking about- To Conrad win or lose? I can't remember. It was a love triangle, right? I'm so happy for him. Amazon made it so that there's a movie that has to come out in a few months to finish the whole story. They left us off on kind of like a cliffing. We're assuming we know what happens, but we don't exactly know. But anyway, like,

the parasycial relationship that people have created with Conrad is, like, a whole reason as to why, like, it was so successful. And then everyone... What did they like about Conrad? Hate Jeremiah so much. Because he's a yearner. This is what people say on TikTok. Like, you're a yearner. Like, Jeff Buckley's music is, like, yearning music. And, like, women long for, like, men that just yearn for other women. Because in this day and age, it's, like, boys are kind of not like very charming or do you know what I'm saying like boys aren't trying to court girls anymore

and I think Conrad like trying to court belly like really hit with people You miss the yearning in the courting Well that's just what like TikTok is kind of going off of They like a man who's like willing to like put all of everything aside and just be like I love this girl

and I'm going to do everything for her and that's what resonated I think at least with my friends that still love Conrad I think it's great that Jeff Buckley still matters. Oh, yeah. Especially because we have a new documentary for the music box series about Jeff Buckley next month. He's had a huge resurgence. Well, it's funny how the TV shows can revive some of these people.

Yeah. So, Summer I turned pretty got to the point where you were, what time was it coming on in Boston time? Midnight. So you were staying up until midnight. Oh, yeah. And I also like when TV shows space things out weekly, so you have to wait for it and you get to have the anticipation. I think that was a whole other thing. Similar to Stranger Things, where it's like, everyone is watching this show and everyone's waiting.

And in the week before, everyone's throwing in their predictions or, like, just bonding over it on a global matter. Exactly. Like, White Lotus, too. Yeah, but why don't the streamers, everybody feels this way. And yet, like, Netflix is dropping all the Stranger Things episodes at once, right? No, they're dropping the first batch on Thanksgiving. I think the first four episodes. And then you have to wait until Christmas and then New Year's.

But wouldn't it have been better up doing two? and then just one a week to like to basically like suck you guys in for the rest of 2025. They think they're more important than these other shows, which all give them the benefit of the doubt that I think they are too. Yeah, obviously it worked. And they're important enough to be able to like, here's four episodes and then you have to wait a month for the next four. And I'm willing to do that.

I think that they want to be like bigger than just dropping. But somewhere I turned pretty didn't do that, right? Because that show's not nearly as good as Stranger Things. That's the type of show that has to be released weekly because you're, going to lose interest if it's not. Like, there were so many filler episodes in there where it's like, I don't know what just happened for the last hour, but it feels like- Like a fantasy basketball league.

It feels like nothing that we needed to happen, happened. Yeah. So it's like, oh, hopefully the next week will be better, but at least it's only seven days until we get to find out. Well, I mean, that dates back to the 80s and 90-20 type shows that were like that. They always should have been like 10 episodes a year. And they would, like, 9-0-2-1 was 32 episodes for a couple years. Yeah, that's a lot.

like all-time filler episodes. Summer I turn pretty, it seems like, what is it, like 13? It's not enough episodes to have as many filler episodes as it did. Like, I would leave a week of show and being like this. That was just pointless, a wasted hour of my life. But I'm going to come back again next week because I need to know what happens. But Tommy Lies was that one hit. Whole different spectrum.

Like, I put these shows in different, like, boxes in my brain where it's like somewhere I turn pretty is just nostalgic, easy to watch. a good watch. Every episode might not necessarily be good, but it's easy for background noise. And it's a nice thing to be able to relate with others on the internet about. And just be like, I'm going to open my free page and everything

is going to be about this one scene from the show last night. And we all get to laugh about it together. I just like having the sense of community that that show brought. Tell me lies was like the dangerous show that people 16 under shouldn't be watching but they have to watch. Yeah. It's like a it's a total

mind screw up. Like watching that show I have to like prepare myself to go into every episode because it feels like you are like watching something really dark and like being manipulated. Are there any good people on that show? What do you mean when you say good people? Like good person? There's not a single good person. Yeah. Okay. Literally not a single one. But it's it's a great show. It's exactly like euphoria in the way that these characters are so complicated and so fucked up that you would just never even imagine that a person could be capable of doing the things that they do. It's a little less drug-heavy and kind of like disco.

Than euphoria, I hope so. Glitter outfit situation. But it still has the same effect where it's like a more real-life simulation of like this is some really fucked up, manipulated, like really terrible people. Euphoria is coming back and they're, I think, fast-forwarding. Yeah, a lot of years. I'm nervous. The one thing I heard was that I heard Sidney's character is going to be.

an only fans model on the show. No, for real. Yeah? Yeah. That's the only euphoria scoop I have for you. I'm nervous for that show to come back. I really did love it in the first few seasons we watched it, but it seems like there's so much baggage that has happened and so much time in between

that I just can't imagine it being a good season. But you loved, I love L.A. I loved I love L.A. And you were literally the audience for it because you're a 20-year-old in L.A., which I don't know, they renewed it, so that's a good sign. Yeah. What did you like about it? I love L.A. was, I thought it was just perfect in the way that it made fun of how awful L.A. people can be.

I love, I love L.A., not the show. Like, I love L.A. L.A. is great. But you're also smart enough to know who not to like in L.A. It's, it just did the most perfect job at showing how ridiculous, like, the whole influencer world can be because it is just insane. Yeah. I loved every single bit and piece of the influencer stuff. the relationship that lead character has with her boyfriend is just could not be more perfect. Everything about the show just felt like it's all of these like niche things I've picked up on in like my 20 years living here put into a singular thing and then blown up by 100%.

And I think it resonated with a lot of people from LA. So you think it became a little bit of a thing. Oh yeah. I saw a lot of stuff of it on the internet. And it's a bingeworthy show too, which is helpful. it's an easy watch. People just like easy watches. It's nice to know that if you're going into a show, like, tell me lies. It's like I need to prepare myself. And this might like give me an emotional, like some emotional turmoil for the rest of the week. Watching I love L.A. It's like I can just easily watch this show and go about the rest of my day and not really have a dark cloud hanging over my head. We should have created a podcast where you recap these shows with my dad as he tried to figure out what was going on.

I'm like, I love L.A. He's unbelievable. I think you would have had an aneurysm if he tried to watch that show. Yeah, he's just conditioned for CBS now. We tried to watch a doc with him over summer. Which one? The Call Her Daddy one.

Oh, that's right. And he, I think he had four seizures in his seat. He had to get a lemonade with extra eyes. just to keep him awake, and then he left. He just left. He just disappeared. He's like, I don't like that lady. And he just left.

He was only here for four days, and he didn't even want to stay with us to watch it. Yeah, I don't really blame him. No. Wasn't great. Any other shows before we go? That's it? That's the All-Star team? Who's your favorite influencer right now?

I love my Graden Cutler, Hallie Badchelder combo. I've talked about them before on here. Also, like, a local Boston resident. I'm always looking out for him whenever I'm on the streets. He's six foot seven, so he shouldn't be that hard to find. But there's some good people out there that I'm really liking right now. My most favorite person is this lady named Natasha, and she is from California. She lives in Long Beach, I think, and she takes, like, four weed gummies and then tries

different restaurants from, like, different ethnicities in different sorts of, like, areas of the world. Why do the weed gummies? What does that have to do? It makes her hungry? Okay. But she films it through, like, these glasses that she wears, and it's like you're eating. It's like you're eating.

You're watching her eat, but it's from a first-person perspective. Well, and you still love therapists, but it's on vacation, right? No, therapist just finished season two. Okay. I mean, I couldn't love that guy more. And his two friends, Julia Mervis and Peyton Perthor and Brett Chodey, like all the people that surround him, I just would trust with my life. There's no one more that I'd want to be friends with if anyone was like, you can

be friends with these five famous social media people, he's my number one. Because all these influencers come and go or they get canceled or they turn on each other or they never seem to last longer than like nine months. Yeah. Well, I was trying to explain to Mom the other day, like how he came to be and how he gained success. And it was literally from him like getting high and then making these little skit videos that people would send in.

I think his most famous one was like Abraham Lincoln finding his signature hat. But it's just like these little stupid funny videos almost simulated vine And people just caught on to him and his personality is so great And he just created this entire like kingdom around just his personality and how he is And he's lovable across the board Everyone who's been on the pod like loves him He's buddies with every famous person Yeah because he's so likable

I want to go on I haven't been invited I'm sure he'd like to have you I would love to go on therapist just to impress you Would you be able to give some recommendations to the pussies about, like, things. That's what he calls them. The pussies. You don't like that.

Yeah, the therapist. Well, you said he's tapping into some trend that's happening right now where so many people are in therapy that he's crossed therapy with a podcast and interview thing. And he's somehow solved these three different things at the same time. Right. The mailbag segment, the life advice, the unsolicited therapy thing. And he's a trustworthy person.

And I think it's hard for these influencers to be successful because they're so easy to see through. Yeah. And it's like you're liked for this specific thing. Like maybe you're the crazy party girl and that's your appeal and you can get a certain audience or whatever your niche is. But he's just genuinely like such a likable person and people trust him and just like want to listen to him. And that's why everyone keeps coming back. Yeah, you're almost too normal to have a pod. You'd have to have a pod where you were the normal person with two crazy, some crazy guest stars.

girls your age or just tell stories every week about what they did and you're kind of the calm one. Yeah. Well, we're open for business

if we can find those two people. But Stranger Things, we didn't finish who I think is going to die and just going to throw it out there. Because we got to go. So tell us who's going to die. Give us two predictions.

I hope to God Steve Harrington doesn't, but I'm assuming he will. Another big prediction that I saw on the internet was that one or Vecna is going to transfer his powers over to Will

who's one of 11's best friends, which is going to make it a more difficult time for him to kill her. I was wondering if that could happen. Yeah. So that's a potential. Regardless, let's all stream it together. I'm super excited about stranger things.

Just excited for everything that's coming out. And tell me lies in January. Thursday, I'm going to be watching football after we eat and you'll be like up in your room watching stranger things on your phone. Done for the night. And then you fly back. Okay. It'd be great to see you.

Zoe Simmons. Great season, by the way. You stayed healthy. Yeah, thanks. I tried. It did good this year. Yeah, it was all right. It was successful.

Oh, it was all right. No, no, it was good. Yeah, it was a successful year. I'm always happy when you're playing and you stay healthy. Yeah. Those are my two goals. Got two of them. But it was fun watching.

All right, good to see you, Zoe. Good to see you. Thanks, guys. Bye. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsbury and thanks to Chris Ryan and thanks to House. Thanks to my daughter. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well.

Have a great Thanksgiving for a ringer 107 we're going to be posting all of our picks on Wednesday night if you want to get some some really mediocre is anybody getting it hot in the ringer 107 i have no idea we have five teams all treading water around 500 will one of them get hot we're about to find out uh happy Thanksgiving everybody thanks for support in the podcast i will see you on a sunday night Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gaming problem called 100 gambler or visit RG dash help.com.

Call 88879-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.m.org. or call 800, 32750 for 24-7 support Massachusetts or call 8778 HOPE NY or text Hope NY in New York.