The Bill Simmons Podcast - Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Wosny Lambre and Joe House to react to Warriors-Timberwolves Game 2, and to preview Cavs-Pacers Game 3 (2:19). Then, they craft a pyramid of the best NBA playoff guys, and more (24:24). Finally, Bill’s dad joins to discuss the Celtics as they face an uphill battle against the Knicks (01:02:34). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Joe House, Wosny Lambre, and Bill's dad Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! michelobultra.com/courtside ENJOY RESPONSIBLY ©️ 2025 ANHEUSER-BUSCH, MICHELOB ULTRA®️ LIGHT BEER, ST. LOUIS, MO. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available in this and then episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and President Select States, game prom call 1-800-GAMBORG, visit rg-help.com. Coming up, We're talking basketball We're talking some celtics. Is it over? All next we're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network. We put up a two-part star wars

Rewatchables on monday. You can watch the whole thing on youtube on ringer movies or you can watch this video podcast on spotify We're sticking with the 70s all month I think that's what i've decided. We're doing Death Wish on Monday, which is just an unbelievable movie with Charles Bronson. So that's coming Monday night. You have the whole weekend to watch it. I think it's on Pluto, it's on a couple places. So Death Wish coming on Monday night.

The Celtics might have a Death Wish. We're gonna talk about that later with my dad. He was at game one and game two and he gives us his in-person scattering report. Coming up first though, Big Waz, Joe House. We're back. We haven't had the three of us together on a podcast. It's our worst contracts draft, which I sent to the,

to the Pulitzer committee. It didn't get picked, but we're going to talk about Golden State, Minnesota. We're going to talk big picture, Denver, OKC, Cleveland, Indiana, game three, Celtics, Knicks, and that is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this a little after eight o'clock Pacific time. Big Waz is here. Joe House was supposed to be here.

I think he sprained his MCL. He got injured somehow. Anytime houses on any other podcast is zoom works. And then when he's on mine and it's later at night, no zoom. I'm just going to assume alcohol. That's, that's where I've landed. A lot of martinis for the big guy. I'm not surprised by that. Well, he's got a big lottery coming up, the Wizards on Monday.

Ah, yes. Yeah, I want to get your thoughts. I'm talking to my dad later about Celtic Snakes, but I obviously want to get your thoughts as well. We stayed up to watch Minnesota Golden State. I don't know what made me think that this might be a good game. I'll start here.

Is Steph actually the non-Yoke-age MVP when you see what somebody's team looks like when they're not on it? Is there a more dramatic, oh God, than Golden State without Steph? It's really crazy, because their offense isn't elite when Steph is there. It's like he's propping up a bunch of mediocrity, and to see him not be there,

Jimmy on half an ass cheek, it's just pedestrian. That's just what it is. It's just a pedestrian offense, and Minnesota is one of the best defenses in the league, so I'm not surprised that they kinda grinded the Dubs offense into dust. They got the game they needed already. So this was the gravy game.

That's part of it too. Yeah. Which was Denver last night. Draymond tried to get himself kicked out. That also happened, which is a tradition like none other. I texted you in house, and again, RIP house apparently couldn't make the pot. But I texted you guys literally five minutes before.

It was five minutes. I checked the time stamp. Yeah, cause I was like, I wonder what quarter Draymond might try to get himself kicked out of this game. And then he did the swing the arms thing. And Stan Van Gundy, let me get the exact quote, hold on. I'm not sure there was any intent there, to Stan Van Gundy. Stan Van Gundy watching the Dahmer mini-series, episode eight, as Dahmer's eating somebody's genitals. I'm not sure there was any intent there. You know, who knows what Draymond, but he is in the first team OMBA of swinging his arms into somebody's head.

Yeah. He's one of the best in the league at it. Like a lot of people exaggerate contact, but nobody routinely connects with the head of the guy that's guarding them as the head of the team. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. it. Like a lot of people exaggerate contact, but nobody routinely connects with the head of the guy that's guarding them as consistently or the nuts as consistently as Draymond Green. Well, Draymond got the game he needed to win. I guess the bit, the bigger question for him is this technical foul tally that you would figure after 2016, he might be more aware of from a big picture standpoint because now I think it's two more and he gets suspended for the next game. So he's got, I guess, a technical to work with.

I still haven't figured out what distinction they're making on the tech and the flagrant to, like. Yeah. There's no rhyme or reason, it feels like. It feels like they're cutting a guy a break as to not get him kicked out of the game for the crazy stuff that he's doing. But their explanation leaves me wanting pretty much every single time.

Yeah, I agree with that. Kaminga in this game tonight, did you ever own property on Kaminga Island? Did you look, which you go on Redfin and check out some houses? What was your plan there? Very early on, I would say I was definitely like, look, this guy is athletic, he plays with a motor.

He's huge, like this is an exciting kind of young guy that, you know, within Steve Kerr's system would be fun if he would develop. But I would say beginning last year where it's just like, it's obvious. First of all, he went to the press complaining about Steve Kerr. Steve Kerr was like, all right, whatever, F it. We're going to put this guy in. But it's obvious you're not-

You didn't like that, by the way. I don't think Steve Kerr was a huge fan of the complaining to the press. I mean, I would imagine not. He's basically going over my head. He's not some creator, right? He's just not. And he's just refused to make himself into just a great role player, just a, dare I say, a GP2.

Look at what this guy does. Great cutter, great rebounder, great defender, just shoots open shots when it's swung to him, like hits the break, like he uses his tools to the best of his ability to fit into what Golden State's trying to do. Kaminga basically does none of that and thinks that he's Kobe and it's just like, eh, I don't know why I should

still be excited about him. You know where he's, here's how you why you should be excited, if somebody on his team who's really important gets injured and he has to play minutes by default, becomes exciting, because he walks out there and he's like, finally, I get to battle with Anthony Edwards, my peer. Nobody but me and Anthony Wonders understands what we have as a connection as rivals and he just goes head-dead with them.

Did you think, even without this curry injury, did you think Golden State had a real chance in this series? Yeah, I mean, you mean pre-injury? Did I think the- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. Just because the Wolves are just collectively not

the most highly executing team, right? And the Dubs are the opposite. These guys are veterans with insane playoff know-how collectively, and they have a great coach And so I was just like just based off of that alone I thought the Dubs would give them a great series and had a definitely had a chance I'm not gonna say I thought they were gonna win I just assumed Minnesota size would eventually end up being too much and Anthony Edwards

Playing more like he did in the second half of game one throughout the series. I just assume Minnesota would eventually wear these guys down, but now it's hard to see it in, you know, I know they said they're going to reevaluate in a week. That's not how hamstrings work. This guy's not coming back in a week. No, hamstrings, calves, groins, and they always do the at least a week or at least 10 days and it's, you know, it's never, it's not good. It's too bad.

But on the other hand, here's the thing. He's 37 years old. They just had this war against the Rockets for seven games. Right. And that game seven is worth a game and a half of playoff kind of minutes intensity. It's like a, it's like a three, it's like 150% of a game, right? And then he immediately gets hurt

and game one of the next series. And that's what happens when you're relying on 40 year old Lebron and 37 year old Steph Curry and you're relying on guys who have played a million playoff games is the variance becomes a little dicey, right? But then, you know, I was talking to some Warriors friends and they brought up something that I thought was kind of

pretty, you know, head on. The Dubs came into the season thinking these young guys were somehow going to be competent enough to make this thing work. You're talking about like Pods and Kaminga and all those things. Yeah, and they make this trade for Jimmy Butler. Finally, they get Steph some help. Only they have to treat the last like 25 games

basically like playoff games. So they've been going all out essentially since February. And it's hard for me not to believe that that didn't play a role in why Jimmy, I mean, excuse me, why Steph ends up straining his hammy because he's been going pedal to the metal for months now. Shouts to Joe House, man. Welcome to the BS podcast, brother.

Joe House, he's just staring at, oh no, he's in choppy internet. This is great, House. You're only on Nine Ringer podcast, but somehow when you come on mine mine It's like you're in a log cabin in Sturbridge, Massachusetts well, I Don't know if you're gonna hear this or not, but yeah only one podcast uses well, I don't even know if I should name names because I'm going to my fault. I was asking for it. Every podcast that I am on uses the same platform. No issue whatsoever.

Except for one. It's this one. You mean using- I won't name names. Using Zoom? Like what are you talking about? Like you wanted Riverside? Riverside is seamless and perfect.

Nobody has an issue with Riverside. Can you tell us what year your computer is that you're using? Like honestly, give us the year. What year did you purchase that computer? How old is the computer? It's probably 2016. That would be like. Oh my God, that's insane.

Trump presidency year one, the first one. That's how this is gonna be in 2016. I do have a modern setup. The problem is that my modern setup is in my house above where my teenager sleeps. And so it's 50-50 whether I can go up there and hoot and holler the way I like, or do I use this this remote setup?

Which most of the time works, but it could be how close we are to the booze I mean the booze is right over my left shoulder So many articles about the explosion of video pods and then house calls in on his Commodore 64 House I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked Wise. After you watched the Warriors game, like tonight, is Curry the non-Yoga gym VP compared to guys who actually mean the most to their specific teams? Well, this was the case, you know, kind of all season long. The only way that Golden State was relevant to any kind of conversation was that bad man Curry.

And I was very nervous at the beginning of the season, all the way up until the trade deadline, that this was a going away affair that this was basically, you know, the, the year before the year for his retirement circuit, because golden state had no prospects whatsoever until Jimmy Butler fell into their laps. Um, and here we are. He can't play so they're dead. Yeah. Well, I think that's it.

But you know, what's alive, Pat Spencer's facial hair or whatever is going on. Gimmick was what's going on here was, can you walk us through? You've seen a lot of looks over the years. I know, I know you've taken some true delight in's different things with pet where does Pat Spencer rank first red flag is that terrible number? Why what I'm sure it's some tribute probably to a late family member or something like that I'm sure there's something heartwarming to it, but bro Get a real Jersey number first of all um And yeah, he's clearly, you know,

he's out there in the Bay Area with those folks. I wouldn't be surprised if he's microdosed some shrooms, you know, every now and again. That would not shock me. That's what the facial and the hair is giving for me. Yeah, we might have to get him on the ringer. Here's my next question. When you watch Minnesota,

and Minnesota has looked pretty spotty in these two games, right, they're bad in game one, and even tonight, they kind of picked their spots, and you know, Edwards sprained his ankle in the second quarter and then returned pretty quickly, but I wouldn't say they look sharp as hell. It made me wonder how good the Lakers were. I see it a little bit differently.

I think Minnesota's the kind of team that really does play up or down to their competition. They beat Denver like five times this season. All of their OKC games, for the most part, have been fun. And Edwards is just a hyper-competitive guy that way. their OKC games for the most part have been fun. And Edwards is just a hyper competitive guy that way. And so I'm not surprised, you know, Steph goes down and they're kind of just dilly-dallying and aren't giving it their best effort.

But there were times today where you saw the team that we saw in Moments Against the Lakers. And so I think they will give anybody a run for their money. I'm talking about from the best teams left in the playoffs. But they do have moments of just boneheaded basketball. And it's been like this basically for three, four years now. So you don't think Pat Spencer and Quinton Post may be bringing the A game out of it yet? I don't even think Draymond's deep-seated

and rooted hatred for Rudy Gobert is even gonna be enough. They just can't do it without 30. So where do you stand on Minnesota? They hurt our feelings, because we had a huge bet before the series. You, me, Sal, and Hanch. we had Minnesota game one, Minnesota for the series. Curry plays 12 minutes and we still somehow lose the game one bet. So I know I'm mad at them still.

I don't know where you are. Yeah. I have not forgiven them and I probably won't forgive them on the Lakers point. I think that the Lakers were an especially good matchup for Minnesota. And vice versa. Minnesota was just a bitch of a team for the Lakers were an especially good matchup for Minnesota. And vice versa, Minnesota was just a bitch of a team for the Lakers. And the way that Minnesota was able to hunt Luca and really expose Luca where he is in terms of his basketball, his playoff basketball readiness.

He just wasn't physically there, Luca. And so they, they were able to, um, exploit that and what the Lakers had in terms of personnel, it was an incomplete team. And so they just ran those, they were exhausted. Luca and LeBron were exhausted every fourth quarter and Minnesota was able to exploit that and you know, four one, that's very impressive, but the way they showed up against Golden State, that's unforgivable. And I'm glad that Chris Finch called out Anthony Edwards.

I think that was entirely appropriate. It's time for him to be, um, you know, the, the leader that, that everybody wants him to be. He did, he does set the tone and he can't let his missed jump shot, you know, his, his lack of, uh, confidence in his jumper impact the rest of his game. Luca was either exhausted or hungry. I don't know if we decided. Both. Which one it was.

Hangry. I think, Hangry. Luca Hangry. Hangry would have helped him. Indy Cleveland, that's tomorrow night. I have no idea why I wasn't tonight. I have no idea why I only had one game. They really put, they should have moved this up once we realized Curry was out.

But, um, as I've said many times in the pot, I loved, I loved in these chances in the series. I wasn't positive they're going to win, but I really thought it was going to be a 50 50 series. They won game one, gave to nobody plays. Mitchell has a heroic 46 minutes and cannot finish and Indy steals it and Hal Bern has this great moment and it's two-oh Indy heading back to Indianapolis. So Waz, do you have more concern for the Cavaliers

or the Boston Celtics, the team I happen to root for? I mean, I would say the Cavs by far. The Boston Celtics aren't missing two all-NPA caliber players, right? And another guy who they've seen as their key deadline deal in DeAndre Hunter. So, like, I think Mobley's gonna come back from his injury, he'll probably be a little limited.

It's the ankle people come back from those, and just gut it out. Garland, it isn't coming back. All indications are that that toe injury is horrible, and coming into the series, I kind of felt like they could win the series even without Garland. I did think they were that much better than Indy,

but now you're down 0-2, and the guy who at many points of the season has been your best player is severely limited and hampered. They got a whale of, you know, basically of a job to do to win four out of five games against this Pacers team that is just, they're clicking, man. Well you know who agrees with you? Fandl. Because the Pacers are minus 194 favorites and the Celtics are minus one 12 favorites. So, uh, I think it is way more bleak.

One thing with that that I thought was a sneaky piece of the Garland thing. I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this. He handles the ball for them a ton and Indy's kind of a bitch to play with how they go 94 feet and they just hound you and they just, they really make you work the bops. And that was one of the things with Mitchell. He had to bring the ball up a lot and then near the fourth quarter is like, alright I'm done with this and other people were doing it But I think indie it's weird because sometimes you'll watch them though choke games away at the end You know, like how do they lose that then other times they come late almost like a boxer

Where it's like wow, they're down on the cards, but they're throwing bombs right now How's you do you like this Indy team? Where do you stand on Indy? I really do. And we were on them after the, the, you know, the calendar flipped into the new year. Um, we, we liked the, the, where their wind total sat, the forecast for how they might end up the season and they've been as good as, as, you know, just about anybody over the, the last 50 games of the season, their've been as good as, as you know, just about anybody over

the last 50 games of the season, their record now is what like a 36 and 11, something, something very good. Well, I think, weren't they like 35 and 15 and then what they do in the playoffs four and one, now they're six and one in the playoffs. So it's something like 41 and 16 in their last 57, something like that. Yeah, that's it. like 41 and 16 in their last 57, something like that. Yeah, that's it. And so, um, it's also the, the, the case that like, there are a different kind of

beast in the playoffs and the chops that they acquired by way of making it to the Eastern conference finals can't be overlooked. I mean, when you get to, when you just get those playoff reps the way that they did and faced, you know, Boston Halliburton went out, but all those other guys, there's a level of confidence, there's a swagger. They are not intimidated by the moment. They're not afraid of the moment.

It's a bitch for Cleveland. I'm so bummed out that they don't have Garland because they've been so good all season long that they deserve like the full compliment to go ahead and take a legit run at this season and they're not going to get it because Garland's absence is, it isn't just like a scoring issue. It's part of what you said, Bill. It is the fact that he's not there to bring the ball up.

It impacts so many different perimeter defense, like, you know, so many different aspects of what Cleveland wants to do. Plus it's Ty Jerome, who's great, who's great when he's the Deion Waiters guy in the movie, but you don't want him on the poster necessarily, but you love when he comes in for some like crazy scenes, like Tom Sizemore style.

But I don't know if I'm building the movie around him. Um, yeah, look, I still think Indy could have beaten them if they, if Cleveland was healthy. I really thought these teams, I thought these teams were pretty even that I thought the Halliburton story in the athletic this week was fascinating about, uh, you know, you don't hear a lot of players talk about when they get in a funks. And it just like, he did all the stuff. Like we talked to bring your colleagues about sometimes, like, don't fucking read that stuff. Don't go on these boards.

Don't go on your Twitter replies. Like ignore all that stuff. Nothing good happens in those corners. Don't read it. Don't read it. And Hal Burton was like, I was reading everything and I was driving myself crazy. From the moment the Olympics happened, all the way through, I read everything, I saw every criticism and it got in my head and I started to lose my joy for stuff

and now I cut it out and now I have my mojo back. But why, how many times can you remember an athlete like that openly talking about that? I was kind of stunned especially not a current athlete or a current player I know Kevin Durant is like famously known for being in his mentions like reading everything That's written about him in the media and what people are saying on social But most people try to present a face of like, I'm above the fray. And Halliburton coming out and just being like, nah man, like I'm reading all these horrible things that are being said about me and it's bumming me the hell out.

Then it's actually was having an impact on my game. That is unique. Most times, like again, like active players don't like to show, present themselves as having flaws or weaknesses or whatever the case may be. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's dope that he talked about it and I think it's even better that he's sending a message that you need to block that out. The internet has many great things about it.

In many ways, we owe our careers to the internet, but goddamn is it negative and just nasty as hell. And so, man, it's just a smart thing for him to do to just lock in with your people and be a great pacer. And look at these guys, they're up two-oh against the number one team in the East this season. Well, I think one of the things with him You could see it the first part of the season. I didn't vote for a parole NBA mostly because of the first two months

I just didn't think he was good enough and that there was a couple games where he'd watched him some nights and he didn't have the big impact of We would expect from a typical NBA guy, but he was on the bubble for me But you watch the playoffs house if I do my pyramid of guys who are left, be good social graphic and Yocage is at the top of the pyramid. Yes. The next level down, would you have SGA and Curry? No. Who would you have?

Brunson, buddy Brunson. Yeah. Who would you have Brunson buddy Brunson? Yeah He's never been in the Eastern Finals, so you say we're doing that we're taking her is for race We're tossing in the ocean. What pyramid is this? I thought we were doing the 2025 NBA playoff pyramid Yeah, the guys right now the guys who are left. So yeah being hurt you're knocking them down pyramid yeah the guys right now the guys are left so being hurt you're knocking them down yes yeah Brunson's not hurt Brunson's going into Boston and ripping the heart out of that that city alright so alright so you grew that was you've got SGA Brunson on that second level for sure I think it

sometimes gets to that level especially his the Lakers like he was just controlling and dominating play in that series but yeah I would say Steph SGA okay so third level can I put curry in the third level or are we dinging him because he's third level third level so can do Curry, Mitchell and Ant in the third level? Where are you going to put Halliburton? That's what I was about to say. Okay. Well, and I hesitate to say this name right now, given the week that's happened, but Jason Tatum, happened, but Jason Tatum, fourth in MVP, is he out of the top three levels now? This is the NBA, the 2025 NBA playoffs.

Show me his signature game in the 2025 NBA playoffs. So you put, you put Halliburton with Curry and Mitchell in the third level. Question, Bill, of all of those guys, and there's 12 seconds left on the clock the Celtics are down one or whoever is down one would you trust Tatum over any of the guys that you just previously mentioned? Was it's not a great week for the question. Get them Was. I talk about it with my dad a lot the next segment. I got Get him, Waz. Get him. Get him. I talk about it with my dad a lot in the next segment. I got rope adoped a little bit.

Hopefully, maybe it's not a rope adobe. Maybe it was just two bad games, but we watched them for four months. And I really believed, and then you saw what happened in the first two games, and now I don't know what to believe. What do you believe? I mean, it's crazy for me because I feel like I was one of the most vocal Tatums, like, skeptics in the media, and I thought, I kind of had a turnaround on the guy.

Like, I thought he got kind of a bad rap. Yes, he didn't make shots in the playoffs last year, but he was incredible on defense. He was their best, basically initiator setting up other guys because they don't have a real point guard on the team. He was the- Best rebounder. Best rebounder. He was the engine of what won that championship last year, especially against Dallas too. Obviously he couldn't make a shot in the Olympics,

but then this year I'm like, look man, all the stuff we used to complain about, his tunnel vision, his refusal to get off the ball sometimes, the bad long contested twos, his refusal to get to the free throw line when he has smaller guys on him, he was executing all of that stuff perfectly, clearly playing the best ball of his life. And then game two was literally the encapsulation of everything negative people have ever had to say about Tatum. He embodied it in that game. And I just, I can't believe that Jason Tatum is actually the player that we saw in game two.

I can't believe that. We're gonna take a break, not because we need to throw to a sponsor, but because I personally need a break from talking about Jason Tatum. We'll be back in a second. Vandal is getting you into the action for the NBA playoffs like they always do.

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We're trying to figure out the pyramid of guys who are left. And we got a little stuck on, uh, on Jason Tatum or the Boston Celtics, given the week that he's having and Joe house did not have a chance to chime in. So I'm going to give you the floor, Joe house. All I want to say out loud is it is possible that whatever happened to his wrist in that Orlando series that had him miss a game. And, you know, to his credit, he did come back, um, earlier than forecast. And it seemed like a wrist injury that was going to have him missing multiple games for a team that relies on three points shooting.

If there is, this would be the best story to come out that the wrist isn't all the way there, that he's not a hundred percent comfortable. And that discomfort is also impacting his judgment. I mean, if he really had to extend it. So his brain would have to be in his wrist. In the same way that Anthony Edwards, you know, um, in these, the first two games, uh, you know, his, his, what, at least the first game, the lack of, of energy, um, against Golden State.

And, and he wasn't great at the beginning of the Lakers series. That's where I was going to go. But for Tatum, if that lack of confidence tied to the risks has him just, you know, settling rather than going inside, he, this is the thing that was just said. There's no reason he can't go, go be a bully. There's no reason that he can't go down low and take on OGN and OB and try and get to the free throw line. There's nothing standing in his way in that respect, but I'm trying to be

generous and gracious with Tatum BS. It's been really good. And I don't have an explanation for what happened the last two games, but talk about it later. Well, at least I get my thoughts later. So if we went pyramid of guys right now and the list can move and the list can go up and down, but if we're just saying right now, guys who are playing the best, Yogiage, SGA, Brunson, Halliburton, Mitchell.

Sure. Brunson, Halliburton, Mitchell. Sure. And then Curry with an asterisk cause he's hurt with Tatum. Mobley with an asterisk cause he's hurt. Towns? No. Jaylin Williams, Brown, Holmgren, Aaron Gordon, Murray, like it kinda drops off.

Yeah. I like Aaron Gordon, the best out of all those names you just said, Aaron Gordon's the only one. I'm like, hey, there's a name guy that I think is gonna be pretty good. Those guys, I mean, aside from J-Dub, those guys are just asked to sort of be as complimentary as they possibly can.

They're not asked to drive any actions. J-Dub at times is like, all right, you're going to have the ball, you're going to create, you're going to be a one-on-one initiating kind of guy. Aaron Gordon's just asked to fill in the blanks around Jokic and Murray and all the things that those guys are doing. I think Murray, I've been pretty disappointed by his overall playoff so far. He's been so up and down and inconsistent.

And when it looks good, it's like, damn, Denver could win the championship this year. And then when it looks like how it's looked in too many of these games, it's been a bit disappointing. Yeah, if you're talking biggest winners for the the playoffs so far, even though we're barely in the second round and let's remove the Knicks fan base, the Knicks as a team, the Knicks is there constructed and everybody who put it together, Jalen Brunson, just like this has been unbelievable.

What's happened with them. Halliburton I think is up there. And then Aaron Gordon is the other one. And sometimes we'll see this and house and I are older than you was, but sometimes this will happen in the playoffs with these guys who have been around long enough. I remember it happened with Diego Dalla in 2015. These guys that were never quite first or second team all-in-BA. Maybe we thought they were going to be slightly better than they ended up being. And then they figured out how to be this like incredibly impactful.

Um, Zach Low would call them amplifiers of the awesome player. And Gordon now has turned into like, did you think that shot was going in house? That three? I passed him. You thought it was going in, right? I did. Yes, I did. I did think it was going in.

Yeah. He's turned into this clutch reliable man. I was so impressed in the games I went think it was going in. Yeah, he's turned into this clutch, reliable, man, I was so impressed in the games I went to against the Clippers, like he was just, you know. So physical, guards the hell out of people. The jump shot, it was the first thing I noted watching Denver coming into the season was, he was just taking threes with so much more confidence, man.

Like, there was no hesitation. Like, no, this is a shot I should be taking because I'm going to make it, which just hasn't been the case throughout his career at all. In fact, that was one of the major knocks of him in Orlando. It's like, yo, this guy can't shoot. They kind of had him in the Paolo role. They were trying to, the same things that Paolo's doing,

they tried to sort of cast Aaron Gordon as the kind of guy that could do that, and he so clearly wasn't. You know, he gets traded to Denver, and it's almost like he was born to play with Nicola Jokic, the way that marriage and that synergy has worked. He's definitely one of my favorite guys to watch. All right, so go little mini pyramid. Jokic, S.J. Abramson, Halliburton, and Mitchell, and then Curry,

Tatum, Mobley, and Gordon for the right now. I'll put him next level. But if you'd shown me that a week ago and you're like, look at this pyramid you made on Thursday's podcast on May, whatever. I'd be like, why is Tatum so low? And what happened to Curry? House, what are you seeing in this Nick Celtics game? Is there, it's a 1230 game on Saturday.

Game four is Monday. The Celtics have been better on the road for whatever reason all year. Must win game for them. It's gonna be the hottest Nick's ticket, I think since the 1999 finals. And, um, what do you, what do you expect if I, if I said to you Celtics win in six or seven or the next sweep, which one would you pick? I still would pick the Celtics, but, but man, it wouldn't be comfortable.

I wouldn't bet $1 on it. And the hard thing with trying to anticipate what's going to happen in this series is you need to tell me how many minutes Porzingis is going to play. And you need to tell me what version of Jalen Brown I'm going to get because. We just haven't seen that physical version of him be able to play, you know, the full 35 to 40 minutes that the Celtics absolutely positively require to be successful in the playoffs. That to me, more than anything has been the missing ingredient in these first

two games against the Knicks. It's the, it's the guy that can go get that tough bucket when it, when we're in crunch time, when we're inside of six minutes, when it's five minutes towards the end of the game and you need somebody to go get a physical bucket, that was Jalen Brown. That's why he was the MVP of the finals last year. And there's some reason that he's, it's physical, that he's not capable of it thus far in these playoffs. Yeah, he's somewhere 85 to 90 percent I would say was.

Yeah, I mean he's shooting 30% from three when the jumper has been incredible all season long. And for him to be shooting 30 in the playoffs, that's Tony Allen territory, if we're being honest there. Just to me, what I want to see from Tatum and Brown, who we know is dealing with a bum knee right now, is when Josh Hart, and Josh Hart's a great defender, he's a gamer, or Jalen Brunson, a guardie, you guys, you have

five inches on these dudes, man. In a big situation, in a situation where it feels like New York is chipping into your lead and things are snowballing, you should be able to take these guys to the basket and generate a shot at the basket or get fouled. Or a kick out. Yeah, for some extreme level of help and get New York in rotation and doing your Boston Celtics thing like the entire offense is designed in order to create these driving lanes for these guys. And the idea that you have all these shooters around you and some dude that's 6'2'' starts guarding you,

you settle for a fade away from 13 feet out, that is just unacceptable to me. And I just have no reason to believe that that won't change. But I think the problem for Boston is like, yes, to me, they've clearly been the better team. But I think New York has an opportunity to play better. I don't think they've played their best. And yet they're up 2-0 in the series. Yeah, it's alarming. I think they, what was it, they had their worst offensive rating of the year in Game 2.

Out of all the games they've played, it was either worst or second worst. 85 offensive rating in the half court. That is putrid. It, uh... I don't know how... I don't like to see you this way, my friend, but... It, uh... wasn't great. It's tough to defend its idol. Let's be real about it. to see you this way, my friend, but. It wasn't great. Um, it's tough to defend a title.

Let's be, let's be real about it. It's tough to defend a title. The thing you said has that the most alarming piece of this to me is you're like, I don't know what to expect from poor Zingas. What's he going to be like the rest of the series? And I think the answer is he's going to be the guy you saw in game two. I don't think he's healthy. I think there's something wrong with them. and I think if it was any other situation

He wouldn't be playing and that's a guy who's 20 a game for them when he's healthy with rim protection And insurance for the top two guys if either of them are off and now now that's gone you saw what happened to horror for the more minutes he had to play and You know teams start getting tight You saw what happened to Horford the more minutes he had to play and, um, you know, teams start getting tight. The, the, why is that? The piece I don't understand is just the settling and the one-on-one stuff and the lack of movement, which I thought they had corrected for the most part over the course of the year.

Whereas like if something wasn't working, somebody starts moving, one of the guards comes over, they reset whatever they're doing, and now they're just jacking shit up. The assist totals were way down in those two games, and it matched what you're watching when you're watching, where it's like just whoever has the ball is gonna shoot. My guy Moe Dock Hill called it hubris,

and I agree with him. It's like Okc came out As if their season was on the line. Like if we lose this game our season is over They treated it like a damn near game seven I can't say that about boston. It's not that they didn't play hard. Yeah, they're up 20 You're shooting jump shots in the fourth quarter and you got guys like Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson on the court?

Yeah. You're not attacking these matchups? As if your life, it just feels like they didn't feel like their life depended on it. Yeah, I agree. Which I think is just crazy. Whereas SGA was the opposite. He comes out and he's like, we're not losing tonight. I've got this guys.

Well here's the thing. My dad and I didn't really talk about this so I feel like this is a relatively flush topic. This is a real fork in the road weekend for Jason Tatum. Who won the title last year but then somehow, you know, still didn't get all the spoils and left the summer with as many questions as answers in a lot of ways, which I think was immensely frustrating to him and the team and his coach.

And a lot of what was happening this season was them correcting the narrative that he wasn't one of the best players in the league, and he was awesome the last four months. And now we're in this situation where they need him the same way the, the nuggets needed Yokochi in game four, right? The same way the OKC needed, needed a SJ last night, the same way the Warriors needed Curry to play a perfect, really smart basketball game in game

seven and just make all the right plays for four quarters. That's what's alarming to me, House is he just make all the right plays for four quarters. That's what's alarming to me houses. He wasn't making the right plays. He wasn't dissecting the Knicks in the way that he was doing all season. And even in the Orlando series. See, I agree with all of that. And I hate to take the conversation in this direction, but the fork in the road moment is for the Celtics.

It's not just Tatum. I mean, if they lose. You going to second, third apron on me. I mean, I didn't, I didn't put you on that apron. The, the, the, the ownership did it and it was the right thing to do. Let's go see if we can defend the title where, well, um, as we sit here today, it doesn't feel great. The idea of defending the title doesn't seem likely.

And it, it looks like the team can't afford to keep both Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. And so it's or, or how they, or poor Zingas. Like it, it's clear that there's it's, this is the short window of this is basically a two year run with the group they had last year and this year. And then one of those guys just financially, I don't feel confident. I don't know which one it'll be long-term. They still have a longer window built around Tatum and Brown that they're in the middle of, and they've been in the middle of all decade.

But I think this was their best chance other than last year with the contracts, with the players and the team and the quality of the players, with the state of the league. They're never gonna be in a better spot than this, right, House? That's certainly my view. I had them in ink in the NBA finals

against Oklahoma City. That should have been my first warning. Jesus, I wish I had known. You have that, you had the same thing. You had them against Oklahoma City. That should have been my first warning, Jesus. I wish I had known. You have that, you have the same thing. You have them against Oklahoma City. That's the bet we made when the season started. It is. That was our finals matchup.

Somebody's gotta dig up the footage of Tatum's last game at Madison Square Garden. It was the last Knicks and Celtics matchup of the season. I get it, it's regular season, but I know for a fact that Knicks desperately wanted to win that game because they had gotten their butts kicked all season long. The crowd in the Garden was losing their minds, desperately wanted to win that. Tatum was sublime, dude. That move that he put on OGN and obi to get the game-winning shot was

Incredible I was like this guy is at the peak of his powers I've never seen Tatum be this incredible and og and an obi has traditionally been a bugger boo for him He's obviously one of the best isolation defenders in the league I don't expect you to go out and just make og and an obi look like a scrub I'm not saying that but like he just has to be more methodical. He has to be smarter about you know how he attacks this Nick defense because I do think there are other places to attack. Well, and you know, you always want to do the stuff that the defense is overreacting

to. Like they attacked Brunson at the beginning of the game with Drew Holliday and then the next switched on that. I I've always noticed when they put Tatum at the foul line in that Nowitzki spot, teams hate that when they have the right spacing around them. And he's really good at turning around and shooting over somebody, going to the basket, um, doing a little fall away or, or finding like a shooter of people are drifting off. That's like, that's become something that's been a really good piece of his

game. And actually Jaylen Brown's pretty good at it too. They weren't really doing that at all in the second half. And even I look at that last play where they, they do the full court all the way down score Brunson comes back, Jukes drew and gets fouled. Then the Celtics run the exact same play again. And it's the worst play in the history of the franchise. Fucking abomination.

Like, I've never seen worse spacing. There's never been worse spacing on a play ever. Five guys all next to each other. But I would have called timeout and done that lob to Tatum at the top of the key foul line area and just created that space. That's the stuff I want to see them start playing chess again, house cause it was checkers in those first two games.

I totally agree. And that's the place where poor Zing is so crucial because if you put, um, stop fucking mentioning him, Jesus Christ, if Posinga plays 15 minutes, it's a miracle, but he can crash. He's the guy that gets the ball as Tatum starts his move and the defense collapses in. Porzingis is standing right there to knock down that three and he's so reliable at that.

Okay, I'll stop, I'm sorry. No, I know, it's just, I feel like 15 minutes of him playing decently is what I'm looking at. And I think the Joe Maz piece has to matter here too. Like, I get it, we do what we do, the math is the math, we're gonna shoot 63s no matter what the situation is. Like just context doesn't matter, if we get a three we're gonna shoot it, I get that. But there needs to be some level of adjustment to the realities on the ground. Yeah, attack Carl Anthony Towns. He's right there.

Just go at him. He wants to foul. Everybody on the court. He wants to foul. He's dying to foul somebody. All he wants is to foul somebody. Let him foul. Let Kat foul.

And guess who else likes fouling people? Mitchell Robinson. Yes. That was great. That's another thing, and I mentioned this on group chat, the the whole We got to get Mitchell Robinson off the floor I know as if he's Hakeem Elijah wanna shack that is great Like that was just crazy to me and Joe Mads and the press conference like yeah, God was plus 22. He's killing us Yeah, I wanted him off the floor. It's like bro. Nobody thought Mitchell Robinson was killing us

Not one person who watched that game was like, oh my god, we can't stop Mitchell Robinson was killing us that one person who watched that game was like, oh my god, we can't stop Mitchell Robinson House is this the biggest Knicks game? since the that you could remember since You were in law 1999 you're out of law school at that point easily that way I was in like the bit the Vince Carter Toronto series because they had that Knicks Pacers series in 2013 But that was no, it's had that Nick's Pacers series in 2013, but that was no, it's kind of a dud. This team is better.

This team is better. And this team is, you know, the, it's the culmination of all of these moves that, that, you know, the front office, the reinvigorated front office that by in turn reinvigorated the fan base and created, you know, this excitement that's been unmatched since win was Linsanity, I don't know. What's the last time? Definitely that's the last time like insanity. That was crazy Nick excitement, but in terms of Like after a Nick playoff victory, like I'm telling you the last time this felt like this was the LJ four-point play

That was the last time this felt like this was the LJ four-point play. That was the last time like coming off of a Knicks victory was like oh my god I can't believe this is happening and for that sent them into the finals whereas this is just like you know giving them a two-game advantage over the World Champs but it's you know it's hard to underestimate. Bill said it's gonna be the craziest ticket at MSG in years and that's true like it's they're underestimate. Bill said it's gonna be the craziest ticket at MSG in years, and that's true. Like it's, they're going to be ready to blow the roof off. Like not even a 330 local time is gonna stop it. Like it doesn't matter. These people are going to be

rabid. I think that Monday game is gonna be even crazier. Yeah. Monday nighter. So my dad who's not, he hasn't even been on the podcast yet, he's really hoping for Scott Foster, game three. We'll see. The cooler! Yeah, fingers crossed for the extender. The extender! The extender, that's right.

He was an OKC last night! How's this, watching what happened with the Knicks give you confidence with, uh, with your team, the about the captain, the rejuvenated wizards. Well, you got the lottery on Monday night. Yeah. Look, I went on, uh, the ringer NBA draft show with J Kyle Mann and I couldn't believe the words that were coming out of my mouth. There was a lot of enthusiasm for the direction of this young Washington team. Wow.

And if we just get a little bit of luck, honestly, I said this to, to JKM. If Washington gets any of the first four picks, I think there are great players at each of those picks in Washington's developmental mode that, that they're in right now and the head coach, Brian Keefe, like, you know know any one of those four guys can flourish now of course I want Cooper I mean we did poop for coop all season long so you know it'd be nice to be rewarded for that but I I'm very excited for this the direction of the Washington franchise it's it's just amazing that both the football team the basketball team for the first time in what feels like 30 years, I shouldn't say feels like in the,

for the first time in 30 years has a direction and a plan. I it's just unbelievable. Well, hopefully you'll get one of the Rutgers guys. Cause I think that team went 12 and 20 last year, those guys winning legacy that one and I T game they won. I'm very excited for the for the lottery before we go. Okay, see Denver really quick Do you see anything in those first two games wise that makes you think okay sees that one in this series? Not really But I think what people should be looking for is the tightness of the whistle. Um, if

The refs allow okay see the tightness of the whistle. If the refs allow OKC to be physical, meaning allow them to foul Denver, they're going to be able to guard them quite competently like we saw last night. If any of these crews are just like actually calling fouls, that's when they're gonna run into some issues. So that's what I'm really gonna be watching for because they can't physically, none of their big men can physically match up with Jokic. Not Chet, not Jalen Williams, not even Hardenstein.

But if they're allowed to sort of gumming up and hold and keep their hands on guys coming off the screens, But, you know, if they're allowed to sort of gumming up and hold and, you know, keep their hands on guys coming off the screens, like if they're allowed to play as physical as they typically do, then they got a great shot at defending Denver and they're well on their way to the conference finals. How's Jokic all time for you? Oh, are you kidding me? Best person too.

Oh, God. I mean, he's in the conference, he's in the top ten. So Tim Duncan, I don't know, who? What he's doing in this playoffs. Yeah, well, you tell me. Would you have it above anything you ever saw from Kobe? He's in the top ten. He's probably top eight.

Bill's trying to start trouble right now. I'm not. Did you see that? I ignored it. Bill's trying to start trouble right now. Did you see that? I ignored it. No, because I left, I said it on the pod. I left that Clipper game and that was the best game I've seen anyone play in person since Michael Jordan. Maybe LeBron in the 2012, that crazy game he had in game six in Boston.

But it was like at that level where it was like, holy shit, this is insane that somebody is this good at basketball. So it's, for me it was in that area, which is, you know, House has known me a long time. I don't throw that around. For me, Jokic, offensively, I know he has his defensive limitations and that matters,

is as good as Prime Steff, Prime LeBron, in terms of his impact on the court. Like again, I love Jamal Murray, the guy is very inconsistent. It's Steph and LeBron level, elevating every single thing that's next to them, you know, in those two guys' primes. And so, yeah, Yo Kitch, man,

I got too much love and respect for what he does out there. I was on Terminand and Eddie's show yesterday, and this was when they hadn't lost to OKC yet, so they're up one nothing. I said, if he somehow put this together and won four straight rounds, and went through that Clippers team in round one, the 68-win OKC team in round two gets his revenge, gets his revenge against

Minnesota who's been his bully for two years and then takes out Pekingese team. And that's the gauntlet. That's like the best runs we've had the last 30 years are probably the Dirk 2011 run when it was like Durant and, and Kobe and then, you know, LeBron and Wade in the finals and there was somebody else good too. Um, and then that Hakeem run, the famous Hakeem run when he beat every great center in the league, including Robinson, who won the MVP, I don't think it's going to happen because I think, okay, see is so good, but if, if it did happen,

I think it would immediately go in that. Shortlist right house. That's that's like, that would be the territory. And, and it puts him like, you know, it's immense him inside the top eight of all time players. Yeah. It, it elevates him another level. I thought just even getting through that Quipper series was shocking to me. Was any, any farewell words for James Harden

that you didn't use on the group chat pod? Anything left? The only thing I'll say, James Harden's 35 now. The times that he played well in that series were way beyond anything that I could've reasonably expected. I thought it was gonna be a face plant for the entire time. He had moments where he legit looked really freaking good. But my God, dude, that's really going on your resume,

the amount of times in the closing games of playoff series when your team absolutely needed you for you to just come up, you know, look, just becoming a pumpkin. It's tough. It's tough for James Harden. How's you didn't get to give your James Harden thoughts on my podcast. I know you have them. I actually don't really blame James Harden as much.

Like he, he is who he is. We keep seeing this version of him at this stage of his career. I don't think it's really fair to like, you know, point it. who he is. We keep seeing this version of him at this stage of his career. I don't think it's really fair to like, you know, point it. It's a combination of, you know, the, the alchemy that the Clippers tried to pull off with Kawhi Leonard at this stage of his career, like not really physically capable of a seven game series, not capable of, he showed us his tremendous highs, his capacity for tremendous size and the same is true of Hardin and then we got

to game seven and neither one of them had the I don't know what the athletic verve I don't know what to describe it they didn't have the gasoline that's exactly right but you know how about your guy Westbrook? Love that man so much. You never gave up. Never did. Look, go back and find that clip from October of 2024. You had it. You said it every year. You love Westbrook. Well, I said, you know, it could be the Joker's greatest accomplishment, the greatest feat of his career, which is resuscitating the career of Russell Westbrook. Lo and behold, Russell Westbrook is extremely important to this Denver

team and their future success. It's been a joy to watch these playoffs. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a full Westbrook stand. Well, I hope we're talking about Jason Tatum favorably in eight to nine years. Let's see what happens this week. Can I make a plea on behalf of, uh, NBA America? Yeah. Can we please now look, I like Wingstop.

I'm a fan. I'm here for, can we please no more Jalen Green, Jalen Green Wingstock commercials, cut another spot. Yeah. They have go find a different guy. Yeah. Nobody knows who he is and he's out of the, you don't want to tell your customers the subliminal message that wingstop is

sending people is that you're going to have a good meal here once out of every six occasions. That's what, when you put Jalen Green is the face of your brand, you're saying one out of every six times, one out of every six of these tenders is gonna be perfect for you. That's not the message. You're gonna be on the bench waiting to get your wings and they're never gonna come.

And then every six times they will. So do you think they should cut as the moment the guy gets bounced from the commercial, from the playoffs, we never see him in another commercial? Absolutely. You hear that, Waz? Yeah, absolutely.

And I get it. And you know what? Restart your campaign when the playoffs are over I don't know like I just can't that they just show the same commercial. I'm over the OKC commercial, too I know Jacobi did a big It's very cringe The thing with house is the food commercials really hit home for house because he gets hungry every time. Well, every time I feel like.

House immediately gets excited for wings, but then there's Jalen Green and now he's not excited. Every time it starts, I feel like it's possible. There's a 2% chance it has a different outcome. No, it's Jalen Green sitting in that car on his way to the, to Cancun or Galveston where he, where Houston really belongs after that future performance. He's going to be on his way to Milwaukee.

He really, yeah. He's that's where that car is headed. Great points. Good luck. How's, do you feel vindicated that all the sons fans, um, revile Bradley Beal? No, and Bradley Beal didn't do anything wrong. All that man did was sign that giant contract that Dopey Tommy Shepherd put in front of him

that Dopey Ted Leone has signed off on. And he's just trying to live his best Bradley Beal life. He doesn't really want to play basketball. He likes playing basketball. He likes the money. He likes the light He likes two more years of the contract when we're doing worse contracts in March I'm already excited for whatever Brooklyn has in store for us this summer There might be a very fun tie Jerome overpay that we might that might be able to make the list Wow

Indeed I would guess would be the number one guy in the list when we do this. I mean it's still 10 months away but worse contracts. One of the most fun days of the year. All right we're gonna take a break and come back with my dad talking salt snakes. Was great to see you as always. House thanks for logging in on your 2016 laptop. We gotta get you a new laptop. I got a new one. I'm working on it. You know what the real issue is? I do have a new computer.

It takes the amount of time it takes to get the new passwords, put your passwords into every single. The porn passwords or the work passwords? No, no. So for every like app, every single site that you go to requires double authentication. It's a double-edited dildo trying to sit there and figure out how to get it. So I'm doing it like, you know, in 10% chunks, because it's going to take me three weeks to get this new machine up.

Double authentication. Come on, man. That's a, that's a damn jail and green Wingstop commercial. Double-edged dildo in 10% chunks. Good one to end it on as we head toward talking about Celtics next for 44 minutes. Waz at house. Thanks again. All right.

Taping this part of the podcast, it is four o'clock East Coast time. My dad is here. We did not talk after yesterday's game. It's very rare when we don't even talk or text after a game. And I finally texted you about a 90 minutes after and we just swore at each other a couple times about how bad the Celtics were. You went to both games. You were there. You were in your seat. You've been going for 52 years. We were, I think, minus eight or 900 favorites to win the series. And they took huge leads in both games and blew the games. And yet game two felt way worse than game one.

What was it like sitting there and watching the season unravel? I agree. Game two was much worse than game one. You know, ironically, like you said, we had 20 point leads in the third quarter of both games. And in game one, I think the crowd was so confident. And you just could feel the confidence in the crowd. We're not going to lose the 20 point lead. And of course, we lost that lead.

Game two, it was a very nervous crowd. You've been at games like that where you walk in the garden, people are late getting to their seats, nobody's talking very much. You're looking up to see if Cozingis is playing, he's not in the starting lineup. Somebody says, no, he's not playing, da da da. He finally comes out, he looks like he's dead.

Run over, he just looked terrible. He had no color in his skin. Super skinny. Well, he's always skinny, but his coloring was off. And he just looked like he's dealing with an illness and he had no strength. He just had no strength. Okay, putting that aside,

somehow we're up by 20 in the third quarter, right? Now the Knicks, I thought played a terrible first half. Or they had really bad luck. They had a lot of shots that rimmed out in and out. And meanwhile, halftime comes, I look up at the scoreboard, Jason Tatum, first team all NBA has two points what the hell he has two points I didn't even notice him in the game it's like he was the one who was out not poor Zingas all right we come back we get the big lead and it was third quarter we made a run Nix is still not shooting well I think the coach took once and out because he just what he didn't have it for a while yeah but go we made a run, Nix is still not shooting well. I think the coach took Ronson out

because he didn't have it for a while. But go to the fourth quarter, suddenly we're up by 16. And I look up at the clock, there's eight minutes to go. And I remember this vividly, Tatum steals the ball. He comes running down the court with Brown, two on one. We're gonna go up by 18, right? Yeah throws it to brown Brown, of course fumbles the ball and it goes out of bounds And that was the game to me

I'm watching jason tatum with two points to the halftime Shooting three after three once again in the fourth quarter and i'm watching Jalen Brown turnover after turnover. We've missed 13 straight shots in that fourth quarter and our defense sunk. It's like the air went out of the balloon, we kept missing shots. The Knicks would come down and they took very good shots. We were taking good shots. Yeah. You know, we were taking terrible shots and you've, you've been to this kind of game where Brown and Tatum eight minutes to go, they start dribbling the ball at the perimeter.

Yeah. It's the plan with your food offense. Yes. It's the isolation. Yes. You look up at the clock, cause I kept looking up at the clock, five or six seconds left, one of them makes a move too late. Another missed shot.

13 straight missed shots. The Knicks come down, they're moving the ball really fast. Their pace was excellent. The ball's going around, they get the open guy. They make not a three, because their three point shooting was iffy, but they get good shots near the rim. It was just, the second game was much more frustrating than the first game because it was such a must need game.

We couldn't afford to lose last night. I think the craziest part of it is the Knicks had, I think their worst offensive game just by offensive rating of the entire season. They played pretty well, especially Brunson was really good down the stretch of game one and thought they really took the game. The one last night was just all self-inflicted wounds,

some very strange coaching, which I'm excited to talk about. Well, I want to talk about the coaching. Did you demote as Joe, second row Joe again? You know, I don't get it. He got greatly out coached. And I'm not a Tibbs fan either. You know, I think he runs his, although he used his bench pretty well in games one and two.

But I don't know, are we going to coaching? No, let's go backwards. Cause I mean, there's a couple of things, a couple of big pictures thing here. First of all, I can't remember a Celtics playoff thing like this. I was trying to think of a series where I just think they have clearly a better team and history would show

because no team has ever blown 20 point leads I don't think in the same playoffs much less back to back in the same playoff games. It felt like they were getting all the shots they wanted and they just missed open shots. There was that screenshot somebody had that was going around social media of Tatum in the corner with like 340 left Browns under the basket and Brunson's fell down he's on the ground right and Tatum just has a wide open 25 footer he called could also just passed it to Brown and it was a brick but it was turning and I don't know what it felt like being in the in the building it felt like every time we took a three I didn't think it was going in I did not think it was going

in but also you gave a great example of that total fourth quarter. We never made the extra pass. Which is when this team gets into trouble. Each guy wanted to make the hero shot and make the lead larger. I think we had 12 point leads starting on that. It was 73-53 at one point. Then it was 16 points in the fourth quarter and the Knicks weren't playing well, you know, and just, there's some strategy stuff I

want to talk about later, but fundamentally these two Tatum games were just atrocious and it's weird because, you know, then all this stuff starts up again today about he's not actually a superstar and the national media can come in that isn't watching the, isn't watching the whole season. They're not there week after week watching the, isn't watching the whole season. They're not there week after week watching what we saw. I really bought in. I thought he went up a level. We talked about it a bunch. Like there was a level of dissection and, um,

kind of artistry to what he was doing the last four months of the season and Orlando game where I really felt like he was solving equations on the fly. He was making the right plays. He could be point forward. He could score. He had just figured out the balance. I really believed he had figured it out. And then the guy that we watched, especially in game two was the guy from the 2020 playoffs and the 2022 later in the playoffs. Like it was like he reverted. And you said you thought it was the worst game you'd seen him play in person

In a couple years, right? Yeah, um a little bit worse probably than game one both games were both games were horrendous tatum games You know, you remember the uh It was the last basket we made we went by one point and tatumum went straight down the middle, went to the back. Okay. That middle was open all game long. And in game one. He just wouldn't do it. He's stubborn. I understand that. The coach is more stubborn, which is a real problem. But even that three point shot, which he was wide open in the corner, I saw a round

underneath wide open. Yeah. Take the two. We needed points. We didn't need a three. We needed points. But what's been weird about it is the whole year he was getting so good and I felt like it was getting better in real time over the course of the season of him being like, oh,

if I can switch and get this guy on me, I'm gonna go right by him and get to the basket, or I'm gonna get to the paint, or I'm gonna find, he started to develop that little shot around the foul line, that little 14 footer, and he was just really putting it together, and then this turned into the old, all the old Tatum habits came back.

And I don't know, you think it was pressure? Like, what was going on? Did the guys look nervous? What was happening? I wish I knew the answer. That first half, again, I never noticed Tatum. Which is the car. He was getting rebounds at least.

He was playing defensively. Oh no, he was getting rebounds. Yeah. I should give him that credit. You're talking about offensively. You never noticed him involved. No, I mean, he was getting defensive rebounds. Okay.

Offensively, he wasn't in the picture. And they go to this stretch in the second quarter, which blows my mind. They take Tatum out and they put Jalen Brown in charge. Yeah, you call it the Jalen Brown in charge minutes. Every dribbling out at the three point line, five seconds left, he makes his move. Yeah, in the shot clock. More often than not, it dribbles off his knee and goes out of bounds, but he had a terrible game.

I don't know how many turnovers he had. It was weird. It started to seem like he was going to have a good game because he was kind of punishing, he was trying to take Hart down low early. Yeah, and then by the end of the game I think he his stats ended up being awful. They were you know that that's my name one of my main complaints I yeah eight for 23. They play a completely different game in the first three quarters Yeah, then then in the fourth quarter. And this is very consistent. First three quarters, the ball is moving somewhat.

Brown is going into the, at least trying to go to the hoop. They're passing the ball a little bit. We had more assists than the Knicks in the first three quarters. The fourth quarter, it's isolation. It's just like what we saw two years ago against Miami or three years ago against Golden State. It's like they forget. And, and, and I keep coming back to the coach, you know, you have a coach, the coach, hold off on the coach.

Last year when the, when the opponents were a little easier before, based on injury luck, where the league was, there were still some nut crunch games when you never felt totally comfortable offensively and it was still a lot of this your turn, my turn. Things would get a little stagnant. The difference was Jaylen, I thought, there were a couple games when he just athletically

really seemed like he could get to the spots he wanted. He was really in complete command and they had the Porzingis piece too where they're, you know, they didn't have them in the entire Dallas series but you was this extra 18 to 20 bonus points you were getting. But when I think back to last year, there was that Indiana game that you went to

that Brown hit the three in the corner to send it to OT. That felt a little like these Knicks games where it was like, ah, we're getting stagnant again. And then we lucked out, gotten overtime. And then the other one was the one I went to in Dallas, game three, when Luca filed out with five minutes left and all of a sudden it was sitting there for Kyrie is going to really kill us and bring this series back. This is like, this is where the last seven years have been leading to Kyrie bringing Dallas back and two one, and we're going to really kill us and bring this series back. This is like, this is where the last seven years have been leading to Kyrie bringing Dallas back and two one, and we're going to fall in all the bad habits. But then they actually held this Dallas off and won that game.

And Brown had a couple of big plays and it was like, ah, finally got over the hump. And now it feels like we're back in the other side of the hump again with this team. And that's the part I don't understand. We should be getting better, not worse. Walking out of the stadium last night was worse than Monday night because at least Monday night we knew we had a game Wednesday night. Yeah. And we could tie the series. But there were so many people walking down the stairs. Well, two things. So many people walking down the stairs saying, Tatum didn't show up. Yeah know? Yeah. Yeah. He got rebounds,

but he never was in the offense. He never took charge or when he had the ball, all he wanted to do was dribble on the perimeter, you know, isolation, dribble on the perimeter. Um, Yeah. He had five, five assists, five field goals. So he created, he created 20 points. And this is a guy who, when he's really humming, he's at like 28 points, eight assists, 14 rebounds,

and he's just kind of involved all over the game. And he wasn't. When you were watching the game on TV, was it obvious to you that he only had, not the number, but that it's possibly only at two points at half time. I actually liked how he was rebounding and kind of fighting. And it felt like they were trying to establish Jalen. Then poor Zingas came in.

It's like, we got to try to get him going a little bit. Prichard took a bunch of shots and I thought maybe he was biding his time. And that was the wrong instinct. Um, Does first team all NBA guy by this time in a, in a must win game. It's a tough one for, I think a lot of the Celtic fans were really defensive about him this year. Cause we were watching game to game how good he was.

Yeah. He had a great season. And then the casual fans come in or the people that aren't watching all the time and they see this version of it and they're like that, that's why he got benched in the Olympics. This is, this is why he's not a superstar. This is why he's not at the same level. But then you watch like yolk edge in game one against OKC put up the 42 22 and six.

Right. You know, you watch Shay respond in a game two, he's got 34 points in three quarters and it's like, that's, that's the level, that's the swimming pool you're supposed to be in, buddy. It's a good point. When I came home, I watched the first half of the OKC game because I couldn't go to sleep. And I'm thinking, oh, you know, Shay showed up

because he knew this was a must game and he's an all NBA kind of guy. Yeah. Our guy didn't, at least offensively. Well, it's tough for him when they keep showing the two commercials. You didn't see because you were at the game, but there are two commercials they just keep showing at Tatum. And then meanwhile he's sticking in the game. I mean there's some other issues that Robinson, the plus minus numbers with him have been

really good when he's out there. I still don't understand why Tatum's not just getting him in a switch and then torturing him every time. I don't understand. But he's been effective. And then McBride has been, I mean he only had five points yesterday, but at least when they know they can put him out there and he's not going to be bad. So they have seven guys.

And as we know, you need seven guys in a playoff series to be able to win and they have seven at least. Yeah, McBride had a good game one. Yeah, he's okay. He wasn't very noticeable last night. But he's at least a body that they know they can throw out and they're playing all these other guys, you know, pretty big minutes. And then Hart is the kind of guy that has always hurt the Celtics, this version of the Celtics. Hart really hurt us. Hart consistently seemed to be on the weak side getting the rebound. Yeah, he's around the ball. This isn't, especially without Porzingis, it's kind of a group rebounding Celtics team

and Tatum's the best rebounder on the team by far at this point. But the Porzingis thing's a huge piece because it has that staggered effect of, it's not just bad that they're not getting the points and the extra minutes from him, but then it's pushing more minutes on Horford who you tell me what he looked like in person. It looked like he was luggage last night. Yeah. He didn't have a very good game for sure. You know, he had a good series against Orlando. But games one and games, game one and game two last night, he looked tired and he looked his age. Well, and they put all the big burden on him twice in three days.

They did. And, you know, I think guarding towns, it gives up so much height to towns. Yeah. Townsville just shoots over him. And I think it influences his offense. The three point shot was off, obviously. Oh, for five. And I think all of them were wide The three point shot was off obviously. Oh, for five. And I think all of them were wide open. Tatum was one for five. You know, I would have liked to have seen Prichard more.

So that's that, that's the coaching stuff. That was one of the things. Cause I noticed this in game one. You could talk me into the three guards with Tatum and Brown versus relying on Horford as much and making Tatum almost like the undersized center and trying to attack the Knicks that way, because then it becomes when they're trying to get a switch on Brunson, they're just trying to get Horford on Brunson every time. You've Pritchard out there.

They're probably going to settle on Pritchard guarding Brunson, but I just like that matchup more. And then he gives them spacing on the other side. That's just better than Horford. And I don't feel like they're losing how many rebounds that Horford have yesterday for you're not, you're not like losing, you're losing a little rim protection. That's it.

Yeah. Well, you know, especially in the fourth quarter last night, we missed 13 straight shots. You know, some of them were Horford shots. There was no Pritchard. Now Pritchard had a couple of shots in the first half. They rimmed out. They rimmed out. But I would have liked to have seen him in there. You know what? And no Hauser either, who sometimes will have the two threes in the second quarter.

Yeah, Hauser's injured. We knew he wasn't going to play. But this fourth quarter quarter over and over, when Tatum Brown have the psyche to take over and play hero basketball, they ignore it. They ignore Pritchard. I mean Pritchard can be wide open and they're going to do their own thing trying to get their shot off. It in the first half, they don't, they'll pass it around and Pritchard will get more wide open shots.

Before we blame Mazzullo, do you take any blame for bringing your brother Don to this game? Because I can't say he's great luck over the years. I thought it was a bold move. I don't know what the other choices were, but Don gets super tense during these games. And I can't even imagine what he was like yesterday during this. At the eight minute mark, it was probably almost nine minutes, I said to Don, Don, we're

up 16, it looks pretty good. But this is around the point Monday night. And he said, no, we're in good shape. Oh no, he's confident. Well, I was watching with your favorite granddaughter and when we're up 73 to 53 and she's like, well, they bounced back. And I'm like, just wait. I don't trust anything that's happening right now.

Let's just wait. I don't feel good until, but. Even the crowd didn't trust the lead by the way You know, I'm not gonna tell me it wasn't so many games were In a game one the crowd was so loud and confident last night We had the 20-point lead then it was a 16 point lead with almost nine minutes to go. Nobody was confident Yeah, they're acting like they're for yeah. I was trying to think before we talk about Missoula, I can't remember another Celtics playoff team since you had the tickets,

that I felt like was clearly better than the team they're losing to. Yeah. And I don't mean that as like sour grapes, like the Knicks, like we've seen this, this happens at football all the time. Like part of playing the games is, this is why you play the games,

and somebody's got to win and you can overachieve or you can just band together like and the Knicks made all the plays down the stretch and they deserve the two games. But this is also the worst the Celtics can play. And I don't remember the only, you know, I remember in 1973 Havlicek hurt his shoulder and the series got blamed on that. 1982 Tiny hurt his shoulder and they lost the Philly and Series got blamed on that I don't even if you go back to like 2018 when they lost the game seven of LeBron that we went to and

It nobody could make a shot right and then you leave the thing you're like man We couldn't make a shot, but they still had LeBron. They still had the best guy in the game It was still amazing that the Celtics were in a game seven in the Eastern conference finals, that Miami game we went to in 23, the game seven, when they came back after the white miracle shot and then Tatum hurt his ankle like a minute in and the game flipped. Miami still kicked their ass and Butler was still really good. And, you know, and Tatum was hurt.

Like there were reasons for it. I can't come up with reasons for this. I can't come up with reasons for this. I can't come up for this team that was built as this offensive machine that wins 75 to 80% of its games just shitting the bed like this two games in a row. I've never seen anything like it. I know some people are saying the Porzingis illness is really hurting us.

And I agree with that. Yeah. It hurt us in the fourth quarter because we couldn't go to them. They had to take them out. You could see he was struggling. But it left us with Horford and

Cornett. Cornett was out there with like four minutes left. He never plays that late. No. And, you know, Yeah. What? Our defense in the last eight minutes of the fourth quarter was terrible. Yeah. It wasn't great. You know, we couldn't stop anybody.

You know, it's not Michael Bridges who I don't think took three shots in the first three and a half quarters of the game. And then all of a sudden they're running plays for him. I think he missed his first seven or eight shots. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he's their go-to guy. And we can't finish the game and I think he made three in a row down the stretch. Yeah. You know, Brunson is scary. I have to say, he's really scary. When he has the ball,

I'm assuming he's going to score. He abused holiday on that last play, the go ahead basket. Cause you knew it was going to him. And usually I'm going to trust Drew more than anybody in the league on that play. And he used them. Obviously I didn't see a replay. Did he, was it a foul? I couldn't see it.

Yeah, it was a foul. Okay. He, he kind of over committed to the move and then he grabbed him as he went behind. But well, that leads me into something else Okay, it was a foul but a Little bit earlier twice in a row coach Joe fouls There's explain that one can't explain it. I Mean I know he's a terrible free flow shooter, but they weren't in the bonus yet.

We weren't in the bonus. We had two fouls. And then you get to the final two minutes and you get one foul and then the second foul and you're good to go. Yeah. Um, but this wasn't the final two minutes. I know. Yeah.

No, trust me. It made zero sense. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand what was happening and we're just putting files on random cell texts for no reason, especially like if you think OT, I'm looking at the, well, I guess we had some files to give. Nobody was in major file trouble. But you know, we had two files. We looked pretty good.

It wasn't in the two minute period of time. Three minutes left. Yeah. Okay, it was three minutes left. Yeah. Okay. So it made a difference. I didn't get it. And then he, so they run the play to Tatum to go up one. Good play.

Next score. And then he doesn't call time out and runs the exact same play. Yeah. Which the next are like, oh, you're going to run this play again. We're going to do this this time. And the spacing on that last play, somebody screenshotted it to me. It's one of the worst plays in the history of the Celtics franchise. You sent it to me. I sent it to you.

Tatum goes left. He takes three guys with them. There's four other teammates on the court. Three are on the baseline and one is standing near him in the paint. So there's two Knicks that just have to guard four guys and then three guys can jump on him. They have nobody come to the top of the key. White is just hanging on the baseline, but he's not cutting and Tatum could

have found him underneath the basket and everybody's just kind of standing there. I don't even know what they're watching. And maybe that's why you don't take the time out. And like, I'm sometimes, um, don't call it time out, just go. You got the momentum of the thing, but coming off a free throw, I don't take the time out and like, I'm sometimes, um, don't call time out, just go, you got the momentum of the thing, but coming off a free throw, I don't know. I'd much rather call a timeout, save the three seconds, bringing the ball up. They ended up taking the time out in the locker room. You have to take the time out. You get the ball at half court. You've saved,

as you said, at least three seconds. But you know, you just, you mentioned how White wasn't cutting. Why would he cut? You knew Tatum wasn't going to give the ball up. Right. He won't give the ball up at that moment. You know, it's it's like his Achilles heel over and over and over at the end of the fourth quarter. He won't give the ball up. And they're guys open, obviously. I saw the same thing you saw. Uh, and I would have Pritchett out there. Um, I would have to, I would have, especially I would have called timeout. I would have done a final play with the three guards, Tatum and Brown had better spacing and really tried. This is your whole season is on the line. You're

down one seasons on the line in all of the great practices they have at the all back arena don't they have that one play where they we call timeout we need two points we have a play they haven't seen before yeah let's use it right now well they have there's you know one of the plays they run from time to time that I always really like is when they pin tatum on the foul line and they almost like lob it, lob the ball into him. And then basically he has this foul line post up that he can either spin, try to go to the basket, get fouled. And he's a good free throw shooter. Yeah, I agree.

I'd much rather have, and then you have the right spacing around him. It's really tough for a second guy to jump over. And then if a second guy comes over, now he can kick it out to somebody. But you know, after watching Missoula for three years, did you expect him to call a timeout? No, I think the best quality that he has is also the worst quality. Like he, he, he likes the test. He likes seeing, it wasn't, it wasn't the game for the test. I'm saying, but you know what I mean mean? He likes when his team is challenged. I'm sure he was watching the game yesterday,

like this is great, this is gonna make us better down the road that somebody's throwing haymakers at us like this. I know, but now they're down 0-2 in the series. And now you're playing, also it's a Saturday afternoon game. It's at 3.30 ET, it's just a weird time. That's fine in February, Joe, you know, when you want to have the test, but, uh, call the timeout, set up that special play that you haven't used and, uh, pin,

pin Tatum at the, uh, foul line area. Well, also protect the lead. This is something I talked on Sunday's pod with Brasila about game seven, Golden state, Houston. Every time Houston started to crawl back Kirk called the timeout and he just controlled. He was just like, you guys can crawl back, but I'm not giving you the momentum of like an eight or nine or run. It's never happening.

Every time I feel like anything's happening, I'm cutting it off. And the Celtics, it's way more there. I hate to use this word because it, in the wrong context, it's. You know, it's a little insulting, but there's been an arrogance to the Celtics team that comes out at the worst possible times where it's like, this is who we are. We shoot threes. We don't need a timeout. We, we can just get Tatum going to the basket. We're just going to play Horford because this is what we do down the stretch. And I really think Pritchard should have been out there

for at least one of those games over. I agree with you. There is an arrogance. If you listen to a Missoula press conferences after the game, after the loss, he'll point out the positives. He uses the word margins all the time, the margins here. We won three of the four quarters. You know, Belichick used to do the same thing. Right. It doesn't matter. You lost the game.

We'll trust the process. Got to keep going. Got to be on a game three. You know, in the two games, I know you know this, it's unfathomable to me. We shot 103 point shots in two games, I know you know this, it's unfathomable to me. We shot 103 point shots in two games. I know. 60 in game one and 40 in game two. We made 25 of them.

That's not a recipe for success. I thought the biggest sin of either game was the last two minutes of game one. When, especially Tatum was just jacking up threes over trying to get to the basket, just trying to get in the paint. Including that one he took with like a minute left. That was just awful as he was taking it. And he had Mitchell Robinson on him. And he can just go by that dude every time.

And we've watched him. What was the regular season for? This is what he learned during the regular season is just go by those big guys. You're going to be able to get by them, finish at the rim. He's also blowing layups too. We missed a bunch of layups yesterday and a bunch of layups in game one. So that's the question. Cause like Fandl has the Celtics still favored in the series.

Right. And the question is, are they really gonna shoot that badly a couple more times? I feel like the Knicks are gonna have at least one game out of these next five where they're awesome. You know, and Towns goes seven for 10 from three, or Brunson has 45 points. They're gonna, the Knicks have a good game in them

that they're gonna win. So at the very least, you're looking at a seven gamer. They have to win one of the next three The Celtics or they go home and then you got a little three in a row basically The one thing I people are I'm hoping for I guess We've been a very good road team this year. We've been a better road than the home. Oh much better road team than home team Which makes no sense because last year In the championship year, we were a great home team. Yeah We fiddled and diddle

You know to use that term we uh, we played around too much this year at home And the lineups have been kind of weird at times. I just thought we'd pull it together, the first two. I really was confident that this was such a must-win game. There was no way we would let the Knicks go up to nothing. Well, so there's a couple other things in stake, big picture, that we just have to acknowledge. a couple other things in stake, big picture, that we just have to acknowledge. The Knicks, New York, the Celtics have won all these titles. The Knicks have a 1-1 in 52 years.

The Knicks have, the last kind of great playoff moment they had against the Celtics was that 1990 game that you and I went to and Bird missed the dunk and Ewing hit the three in the corner. Yeah. They had some the three in the corner Yeah There dad some good ones in the early 70s. They won a couple series the 84 Bernard versus Larry It's Celtics win that one in game seven but then there's this whole a lot of Knicks fans are also Yankee fans and there's really since the

04 the comeback and now it feels like That's the 04, the comeback. And now it feels like the Knicks knocked the Celtics out out of nowhere, where they're doing four or five. And now all of a sudden the Knicks fans and the New York fans, and we know a lot of them, all of a sudden get their swagger back. I'm dreading that more than anything, even though I like the Knicks fans.

Well, I'll tell you a quick story from last night's game. One really annoying, and I know the Celtics draw really well on the road. Yeah. It's probably annoying to those teams in Dallas or wherever. Yeah. It was really annoying last night to see how many Nick fans were there at the game. It's obvious that after game one, a lot of season ticket holders sold their seats for

game two because you had the blue and the orange, the terrible colors that you notice, all over the arena. And then walking out in the stairs, there were Nick fans chanting. And there was a pretty huge Celtic fan who went up to one of them and said, you say one more word and you're going down the stairs. And that was the end of it. Oh, yeah. So the Nick guy kind of ran quickly down the stairs to get out of there. I mean, the Suffolk fans were really upset. Yeah. And there were too many Nick fans chanting.

It was terrible. And then and then sounds like a fun walk home. No, and then the fire alarm went off. Oh, yeah Yeah, it was bizarre The whole ending of the game was when you left it you think you were gonna see the Celtics team again Yeah, I thought I'd see them Game five possibly down three to one Yep, I knew I knew my son wouldn't be there But I I knew my son wouldn't be there, but I cannot believe we won't take one of two games in New York. I don't know.

The early start on Saturday, I don't know if that's good or bad. The crowd's going to be great, but the good thing for the Celtics is there's going to be a lot of money in that arena. And it might be a lot of, maybe not, won't be as quite as the raucous of a crowd as normal. There's a specific referee we'd like for Saturday afternoon. Not Mark Davis. Who's the, give me your top three referees you don't want to see. I don't know.

Your guy Foster's back. Yeah, we haven't seen him. He was injured for two months. Oh, is that back. Yeah. We haven't seen him for two months. Oh, is that why? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to see him because he's good with your road team on the line. He's good when you're down in the series.

Great to see you. So if they blow this series, do you feel like this then gets tied into last year and people start the whole thing of, well, the only reason you won last year was because everyone was hurt and you got lucky and then the league got better this year and you didn't show up. I do feel like it opens. I don't personally believe them, but it opens these storylines. Uh, Tatum see, this is why he got benched and all this bad shit comes out of this.

Yeah, it does. I mean, you can have some of, well, they won last year despite the coach. The coach lets them shoot 103 point shots in two games when they're not making the shots. Doesn't make adjustments at all during the game. They have no plan B. They don't get creative at all. Does it call a timeout and say, hey guys, we're just not shooting well. Could we go to the basket? Is that too much to ask? Or you brought up a critical point before.

When the other team is making a run, call a timeout. Stop the momentum. We don't do that. And then not taking the timeout last night. I understand his philosophy. You know, win the moment, maybe. Except it was a made free throw. It's coming up for free throws though. You call time out at that point.

It wasn't like the Knicks missed a shot and we had the momentum going down. You know, he definitely don't do is don't call it time out and then run the exact same play. Even Tibbs in the press conference after is like, yeah, we figured they were probably going to try to run that play again. It's like, yeah, I bet you did. Do you blame the new owner of Bill Chisholm? No, but you know, how did they call it? They didn't call a timeout.

So how come we were in the exact same play? Who told Tatum to do that again? I don't know. Well, and if you're going to run the same play, you have to have somebody's got a pop up to the top in case he gets trapped or doubled. We didn't run the same. Maybe he thought he was going to run the same play, but the middle got clogged and he ended up in the left, almost out of bounds area.

I couldn't even see him. He was so far out on the left. Do you have the proper animosity for the Knicks after watching them two games? Or is it like a likable opponent? No, it's a like, I mean, I have no animosity. They, they play,. They played clean. You know, like Orlando was rubbing your last nerve there. Yeah.

After a couple of games. I thought they played dirty, but I don't think the Knicks played dirty. I will say that I didn't realize how good Hart is. Yeah. He's made such a difference for them. He keeps the momentum going. He gets that such a difference for them. He keeps the momentum going. He gets that rebound they have to have. He makes a key shot in the corner.

So he's impressed me. Brunson has always impressed me. That guy is. I can't believe Dallas gave up on that guy. I didn't resign him. Townes pisses me off because he's got body language I hate. And without Porzingis, we're having trouble. When they have the two bigs in, they have their two bigs in

and we have Cornett and Orffett in, it doesn't quite match up well. Yeah, but that's where you need Tatum to basically point center it a little bit. Well, and Tatum got, you know, he's getting defensive rebounds, but it's not helping us scoring at all. Well, we'll see. This is certainly, uh, this Tatum era...

Are you confident? Do you think we're going to come back to it too? This is the first time I honestly don't know what to think because they took all the shots that normally took and none of them went in and they just shit the bed two games in a row in the last four minutes and each of them just might have been these separate flukes that exist next to each other or something's wrong. And the only thing that makes me nervous is the, the porzingis thing is a real thing because that's that there's just a, you know, it's a domino effect of not just that, but the extra horror for minutes.

Then you have Hauser. So the rotation all of a sudden got thinner. And now when the rotations that thing, if Tatum's going to suck in a game, now it feels like three times worse. Cause not a lot of backup options, you know, I thought we drew and white played like they were playing pretty hard in that game. It's not, I don't expect a ton more from those guys. And I think Jaylen's 85%, you watched them all year. He's not as explosive as he was in November.

He's pretty, no, maybe not, but, um, 90%. I don't think that's what hurt him last night. It's the consistent issue he has with bad hands. Yeah. You know, when they blew that 2-on-1 layup, you know, and they clapped each other, you know. Yeah. You can't do that in a critical game, too.

Alright, so you're confident or you think it's over? I don't think it's over because I think we're a really good road team. It will not shock me if we take both games in New York. But I'd hate to see us lose Saturday and then we're in the same boat. We were two years ago against Miami. Miami thing, yeah. And to come back and win four straight,

no one's ever done it, right? In basketball. I just can't believe we're here. I can't believe we're here. You know, I... It's funny though, I wasn't even that mad last night. I was, cause you know, they won last year, so you gotta factor that in. It's like, all right, keep it in perspective.

We did win the title last year, but I was, I was more confused. I was just like, I don't, I just spent six months watching this team. What is happening was one of those. It was like, if you're just watching TV with your wife and then all of a sudden she starts speaking another language and you're like, what's going on? That was how I felt for both games. Like, what are you guys doing? Yeah, that I understand that.

And I felt somewhat the same way. But consistently, the last eight minutes of the fourth quarter, we don't play the same way as the first 40 minutes or whatever. And I don't understand why. And the only person I can point my finger at is the coach, you know, coach these are players, they need some direction. If they're shooting too many threes or not going into the basket, make them go to the best.

Sounds like you're going to demote them to second row again. I need to be careful. I need to be careful. Dad, I'm going to see you for game seven, Monday night, May 19th. I'll be here. Save my seat. Good to see you. All right. I'll talk to you this weekend.

Bye. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to big was in house. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Eduardo and Gahal as well. You can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify every single time. We'll be live with Ros Priscilla on Sunday on YouTube.

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