The Bill Simmons Podcast - Best Summer NBA Characters, the 'Minions' Phenomenon, and NBA Futures Bets With Tyler Parker, Chris Ryan, Raheem Palmer, and Zoe Simmons

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Tyler Parker to discuss the NBA characters to keep an eye on this summer (3:09). Then, Bill talks with Raheem Palmer about where the most value li...es in NBA futures bets for the 2022-23 season, NBA Summer League betting strategies, and more (47:17). Finally, Bill talks with his daughter Zoe about masses of teens flooding movie theaters for the release of ‘Minions: The Rise of Gru’, pros and cons of social media’s prevalence in the love of the modern teen, the conclusion of Season 4 of ‘Stranger Things’ [SPOILERS], and more (1:09:21). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Tyler Parker, Chris Ryan, Raheem Palmer, and Zoe Simmons Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, we're headed toward 250 movies on the rewatchables where we just put up a new episode actually this week, Misery. But did you know you can find the entire archive of all those movies only on Spotify? Everything from the last six weeks can find on any platform, but the entire archive, five and a half years of movies
Starting point is 00:00:16 only available on Spotify. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking,
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Starting point is 00:01:19 for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium.
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Starting point is 00:02:36 Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Misery. Check out the Prestige TV podcast as well. I think they did Westworld, second episode. The Bears coming this week. Better Call Saul comes back next week. I think we'll do some Hall of Fame episodes there as well. So stay tuned
Starting point is 00:02:52 for that. Pop culture, we got a lot of good stuff going. Got the Ringerverse, Big Picture podcast. Chris Ryan, still cranking out the watch with Andy Greenwald. The list keeps going and going. Ringer Reality, Bachelor Party. Go check all of it out. If you like TV, if you like movies,
Starting point is 00:03:09 well, you're going to have to really like them the next five weeks because we're about to run out of sports to talk about. Coming up on this podcast, Tyler Parker and Chris Ryan. We're going to talk about Tyler's summer characters of the year for the NBA. So that's happening. Raheem Palmer came out to try to figure out
Starting point is 00:03:23 the best NBA future bet with me we did some Summer League stuff in it for the record we taped it before Chet went off tonight in Summer League
Starting point is 00:03:33 and the odds for Chet actually dropped I think he's now the favorite for Rookie of the Year we talked about Rookie of the Year during that pod
Starting point is 00:03:40 in the case for Palo Chet looks so good tonight that I think he's now the favorite the Orlando Magic fans in my life which is basically Steve Cerruti pod in the case for Paolo. Chet looks so good tonight that I think he's now the favorite, the Orlando Magic fans of my life, which is basically Steve Cerruti and Kevin Clark having an absolute heart attack about this because I think they both wanted Chet. Jonathan Chark's big victory lap for him tonight. He was a huge Chet guy. We'll see how it goes. Remember, my lesson with this stuff every time without fail, don't overreact to summer league.
Starting point is 00:04:08 Do you hear me? Don't overreact to summer league. With that said, do love chat. It would be great if, great if he turned out, if he became, he was,
Starting point is 00:04:17 I had Jabari as my favorite. He was the guy playing in my flag on. And the only thing with chat that worried me was the body and how it was going to hold up. But from a talent standpoint, it looked like he had the highest ceiling. So we saw it tonight. People are excited about it. Chet mania has begun. So anyway, talk to Raheem about that and our favorite NBA futures. Then last but not least, my daughter, Zoe Simmons, is going to come on to explain the minions phenomenon to us, as well as just what's going on with social media and TikTok and how TikTok is responsible for the Minions thing
Starting point is 00:04:50 and also responsible for some good things, some bad things, some really bad things. And we talked about that. We talked about stranger things as well. So this is a very interesting podcast. That's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right.
Starting point is 00:05:24 Tyler Parker's here. Chris Ryan is here. They both worked with me at The Ringer. We're going to talk about Tyler's summer characters for the NBA. I mean, there's still some lingering questions here. Since I did the pod with Rosillo on Sunday, we do not know yet where DeAndre Ayton is going or what his market is. We don't know what Atlanta is doing.
Starting point is 00:05:45 It feels like there's one big move left with them. We don't know if Dallas is going to get somebody like Fournier back in the Brunson trade. We don't know if the Lakers are actually worse. I think they are. We don't know if the KD saga has paralyzed the Suns because they're just not doing anything. Meanwhile, they're one of the top five favorites we have.
Starting point is 00:06:02 We don't know if there's Ewing theory potential with Utah yet. That's still lingering. They trade Rudy Gobert, who they lost five of their last six playoff series with. The Ewing Theory committee is studying the Jets. I'm just going to leave it at that. But more important is the summer characters.
Starting point is 00:06:19 And our guy Tyler makes a list. Chris and I react. How many do you have and are we going to go backwards from seven to one, five to one? What's the plan? Let's do, I've got five, but I know you like a little honorable mention in the mix to just sort of, you know, like tease the palette a little bit. So I've got a couple here for you at the top if you want to go honorable mention, and then
Starting point is 00:06:39 we go five to one. We're passing around some small plates. Yeah. Just try to, you know, wake everybody up a little bit. Yeah. People just got here. We're passing around some small plates. Yeah. Just try to wake everybody up a little bit. Yeah, people just got here. They're excited. They have a glass of rosé. We have some appetizers for them. I have a little bonus
Starting point is 00:06:53 for you, by the way. You're going to do your honorable mention. You're going to do your top five. I have a couple dessert guys at the end. Just in case you missed anyone. I made a little list myself. A port or two? Does that mean I get to do after that can I do cognac with Chris yeah absolutely whatever you need to do
Starting point is 00:07:11 alright Tyler give us your honorable mention guys I mean I don't want to say his name wrong and I keep hearing people pronounce it both ways is it Bancaro or Banchero Bancaro alright I will mention first off. Is it Bancaro or Banchero? Bancaro. Okay. All right.
Starting point is 00:07:29 I will mention first off is Paolo Bancaro. This has been an unbelievable start to his rookie season as a poster specifically. After Durant's trade request went out quickly, Paolo was on the phones, getting the Photoshop's up, had a Photoshop of himself and Durant in magic jerseys, which is simple caption. Don't sleep.
Starting point is 00:07:57 And I think that this is, this is extraordinary posting. He's showing a maturity beyond his years. And it's, I think it shows a lot of leadership too. I like it a lot. What, what are we more excited by the prospect that Paolo is making
Starting point is 00:08:08 his own posts or that he has already hired a social media guy to do his posts oh I have a third entry for that question Franz Wagner
Starting point is 00:08:19 Franz Wagner would have to be in that trade right if they got KD it'd be like Franz Wagner and Suggs and a couple other so Paolo's basically saying I would trade Franz Wagner right now that be in that trade, right? If they got KD, it'd be like Franz Wagner and Suggs and a couple other. So Paolo's basically saying I would trade Franz Wagner right now.
Starting point is 00:08:28 That was how I interpreted it. Yeah. So who's KD going to play if Paolo's still on the team? So I don't know. Maybe there's some tension already. Plus we have Vegas. Paolo's going to be there. Maybe a social media guy.
Starting point is 00:08:41 Chris, you make a great point. Is there some secret app that only the players have that they can just immediately sub in faces for teammates on the app? Because they all have perfect ones ready. Yeah, Lillard I would say definitely has a social guy who's like, hey, I got this picture of you and KD. You look
Starting point is 00:08:58 like chiseled gods wearing Blazers uniforms. But Palo, I don't even know if that first check has been put in direct deposit yet. So he's going out of his pocket if he's paying a social guy. Plus, he's of the generation where he's probably a little savvy with the apps. Yeah, I mean, who knows? Maybe he's got some guy just on retainer.
Starting point is 00:09:18 He's got him back pocket, JIC. You know, in case some hot goss drops, player getting disgruntled, they can quickly get online and get them in a Magic uniform. I do think that they should go with the retro Magic uniforms the next time that they Photoshop. Those are the superior uniforms. Good point. I'm not here to go hard at the current Magic uniforms.
Starting point is 00:09:41 They are fine. But let's give the people the best. Like, let's let KD see himself. He watched Penny and Shaq. He knows. If you want to really play to some nostalgia, really get some, you know,
Starting point is 00:09:55 heartstrings going with KD, let's do that. I just, my fear is that the international guys who are just taking over the game in all these different ways are now going to do social media better than our guys do.
Starting point is 00:10:06 That was my xenophobic take. Tyler, who's your next honorable mention? Just whatever the next whale that drops is. Either it's Aiton or it's whatever trade follows the katie trade if that happens whatever those whatever the unnamed sort of whale out there the next shoe that drops is the is the next is the next honorable mention because it feels like just something else something's gonna happen with ayton right well will we know when windhorse goes on first take and does the finger pointing up and the window wipers yeah yeah that'll be he's like demi more in the seventh side like when he pops up
Starting point is 00:10:50 doing gestures you know something's up all right so tbd is honorable mention anybody else no that's i that's that's that's the end of the honorable mention list we're trying to get pretty short this week all right let's go number five your summer NBA characters of note, your notables. Number five is? Jalen Brunson at number five. You can make this a group post. You could include the entire Knicks front office and whoever they have been working with during this tampering time, like World Wide West, whoever. I love it. Sign Jalen Brunson, four years, 104 mil, all of it's guaranteed. And they hired his brother. And it seems like that this deal was agreed to in like 1989.
Starting point is 00:11:39 I like that we're getting closer to a place where people are like, whatever your fine is, who cares? No one cares. So do they hire his brother and his dad or just his dad? Was it his dad and not his brother? It's Rick. Yeah, so they have Rick Brunson on the staff. And then to add a little bit of another layer to the cake,
Starting point is 00:12:01 you've got Leon Rose who runs the Knicks. His son is Jalen's day-to-day guy. Day-to-day agent. So you have Leon Rose and his son and then Rick Brunson and his son. So it's just like a Steinbeck novel. You just get all these generations of families together and you pay them...
Starting point is 00:12:19 It goes even deeper. Leon Rose's first client was Rick Brunson who was brought to him by World Wide West because that's like one of his oldest friends. And then Jalen Brunson, Leon Rose's son, it's his first client, I think. So it's a double first client situation.
Starting point is 00:12:37 That's why the Mavs got mad when they had that playoff game and they all sat like right at midcourt in awesome seats. Yeah. The most blatant tampering we've had. I think we even joked about it on our podcast that week. We've never seen anything like that.
Starting point is 00:12:51 The combination of that. And what did you get all upset about? Danny Ainge sitting close to Will Hardy. Oh, it wasn't just that. He sat close to Will Hardy. It was what he saw when he sat close to Will Hardy. I got to admit, I love that you got upset about that. But it's also like, if that that's true did Danny Inge like think
Starting point is 00:13:07 hard about the jazz coaching deal at all or was he just like you know I sat 10 yards from this guy during the playoffs I think he could coach the team or is it somebody he was thinking about anyway and then the like Danny you should come to one of the finals games he's like great yeah I'd
Starting point is 00:13:23 love to why don't you put me in the, I'll sit with Wick and those guys. And meanwhile, he's just there to scout Will Hardy on the Celtics dime. And then he gets poached. Anyway, so what else with Brunson fascinated you, Tyler? I think the thing that I kept thinking about was, would it be as big of a deal? And I'm not talking about the numbers. Would the attention have been as great
Starting point is 00:13:51 had Luka just been healthy at the start of the playoffs? Oh, if he hadn't had some nice stat games in the playoffs. Yeah, like if he hadn't gone nuts in the playoffs is is is his signing being treated even even with the tampering included is his signing being treated with this amount of attention i don't know i like brunson so i'm not here saying like it's like you know some fool's gold or whatever what he was doing against the jazz because it all seemed pretty repeatable right but like i it would i i did think about that about that. If the Mavs just didn't make the playoffs and his season ended in the regular season
Starting point is 00:14:30 and then all this same stuff went down, what does the hoopla look like at that point? Well, and on top of that, they get to play this Utah team that has some of the worst perimeter defense we've seen in the playoffs in a while. See that piece too. I got to say the on-off stats with him
Starting point is 00:14:48 when Luka didn't play, but Brunson played, were pretty impressive. The only thing that was lower was the three-point shooting, which makes sense because it went from 41 to 32 or whatever. But I don't know.
Starting point is 00:15:01 I really like Brunson. I value him. I think you can win with him. I was fine with it. I cannot wait. I think you can win with him. I was fine with it. I cannot wait. I'm going to do a little sub piece to your Brunson thing. Sure. What week does the Watch Out for the Julius Randall comeback year,
Starting point is 00:15:16 now that he has a real point guard? Who writes the first story? What kind of momentum does it get? What do you want from that story? When do we get the feature profile called Julius Randall never left? It's like kind of just feels like Julius Randall is just like he heard everything that you said last year and he's back. I want something halfway through the year where someone's like,
Starting point is 00:15:39 you know what? This is what happens when you have a lot of left-handed people. They're naturally creative. This is why they're you have a lot of left-handed people. They're naturally creative. This is why they're so good. I want left-handed takes. I want hardcore. This is why they play fun. You know that's been my dream forever. The all left-handed team.
Starting point is 00:15:58 That would have been one of my moves when I was a GM. I had a phase where I just wanted to get all the Spanish guys on one team, like both Gasols, Calderon, Juan Carlos Navarro, Rudy Fernandez. I just wanted all of them together. The Armada.
Starting point is 00:16:12 Yeah. Yeah. Armada. And then the all-lefty team was another one where it's just like, just grab all the lefties and it's just a complete mindfuck for the other team. I can't believe no one's given you this gig yet, Bill. You know, with pitches like that,
Starting point is 00:16:26 it's a sin. Listen, Tim Connolly can come in and get $9 million a year to trade every asset on the team except one. If you get a GM job, I will carry your water on Twitter. Got another great idea from Bill Simmons. Another great idea. He traded 17 picks for Nikola Vucevic. He had to do it.
Starting point is 00:16:46 Bill, if you get a GM job, just let me just hang out. Just let me just come to the gym and hang out. That's all I got to do. Thank you. I appreciate it. I just wanted to have you in an NBA jumpsuit, just kind of working with guys on the side. I want to add something to the Brunson thing, and it'll come up a little bit later in this pod, I'm sure.
Starting point is 00:17:02 But this is, it's not a character, not a great character. It's just a great, great trend. The trend of, who are we bidding against? And this has come up a couple of times in some of these deals where I'm just like, so your dad and your dad worked for the Knicks. Who are you guys bidding against, really?
Starting point is 00:17:22 Yeah. Right? Like, what was the conversation at Thanksgiving going to be like if this didn't work out for the Knicks? So in the end of the day, couldn't the Knicks maybe have shaved a couple million dollars off of this? Well, I think they did descending salaries, which I thought was smart. They did.
Starting point is 00:17:38 They front loaded it. Yeah. My favorite, who are they bidding against? I have co-winners. Marvin Bagley, who I liked, but three for 37. I just don't know who came in second place for the three for 37 with bags. And then the Gary Harris, two for 26, second year, not guaranteed, but it's basically a one for 13. I just want to know who came in second on that one. Like, did anyone have five for him? Four?
Starting point is 00:18:06 So, are they doing that because they want it to be a big trade ship? I don't know. I thought that was weird. Who are we bidding against? This is a good game show, Chris.
Starting point is 00:18:12 You wonder if when the agent like texts them the figure, they're like, they wait for a correction. Yeah. They wait for the like, they wait for the little asterisk tweet.
Starting point is 00:18:22 You know what I mean? Is there a decimal? Sorry, it wasn't 13. I meant 1.3. Yeah. Who do you have for number four, Tyler? Brian Windhorst.
Starting point is 00:18:32 Oh, yeah. I honestly thought he'd finish higher. He probably could have, and I didn't want to, you know, I don't, because he's an unbelievable character, obviously, in the grand scheme of things, in terms of, you know of effect on the league. Probably pretty minimal, I would say.
Starting point is 00:18:56 I'm trying to think how you set it up. Windhorst went on first take on the day free agency was due to start, right? It was that morning, right? Yeah, it was free agency blow-up day. And he proceeds to go on this little bit over two-minute long monologue, basically, with a few interruptions about, basically with the whole idea being what's going on in Utah, which I do feel is almost instantly iconic is the what's going on in Utah is pretty unbelievable just as a line read in and of itself. The thing that y'all referenced before,
Starting point is 00:19:40 which is I feel when the video and the performance really goes to a level that, you know, your DDLs and your Leos, it's really only where they can go. Your Nick Cage is right. These just charisma kings, right? Once the pointer fingers came out and he decided to just let them do what they were going to do, but on rhythm, he was letting the fingers go where they wanted to go, but he knew when he was going to stop them. And it was like watching a Ted talk. It was, it was unbelievable. And I like, I think part of it was maybe just the windshield wipers going back
Starting point is 00:20:19 and forth. Maybe I did just get a little hypnotized. I don't know. But it's, as soon as he started to, as soon as he, because he paused, he paused at the end of his point before he said what's going on in Utah. And right when he said, I think on the what's going on in Utah, it was the first time that he ever kind of put his hands down after he had first lifted them. And then he like, he punctuated the point with like a pin, a pin touch to the desk, like a little pin pop on the desk. I thought it was,
Starting point is 00:20:51 I thought it was, it was, it was, it was so like coy about it. It was, it was, it was unbelievable. I thought it was great.
Starting point is 00:20:58 So you think like Pacino at any given Sunday, like on that level, just the rewatchable monologues for the rest of our lives. I think, I think that when he goes to, cause at a certain point he goes to that. And so you're asking yourself when he starts talking for other people, when he starts talking for the people that are speaking in the second person.
Starting point is 00:21:18 Yeah. That's what, you know, like that's next level. That's the thing that like the greats can do where they just can start to build a straw man that they argue with. He got to treat the straw man like they were an idiot. It was unbelievable.
Starting point is 00:21:30 It's like you because Wendy is one of the guys who kind of popularized don't aggregate this. Don't aggregate this. I'm not reporting it. I'm just saying. So this is like at the end of 2001, a space odyssey of don't aggregate this. And the baby is in space.
Starting point is 00:21:45 That's what we've gotten to with that. It's just, it's insane. I also like, I would love to read an oral history of the other people on the first take set that day. Oh my God. And like what was going through their heads. Are they like, what is he talking about? Because like people keep trying to interrupt him and be like, because you think they're going to trade for Kevin Durant?
Starting point is 00:22:01 He's like, no. Because you think they're looking for a third team trade partner? No. He got a guessing game. He got a guessing game going. He made them ask. It was unbelievable. Well, the question that he'll never answer is,
Starting point is 00:22:14 did he know the Gobert trade was about to happen? Right, right, right. I think he did. I think that would be the odds on favorite. Or was he just like, we're on TV here for two hours. Royce O'Neal just got traded. A lot of people had spidey senses that Utah was going to blow it up anyway
Starting point is 00:22:30 because of Danny's history. And did he just shoot a shot? My take is he had inside info that stuff was brewing. That almost makes it more impressive to me. If he like knew it and was just like, I'm going to go out and perform the hell out of this.
Starting point is 00:22:44 And like without saying it. Yeah. I kept going back and watching it just because it made me happy. Yeah, it was great. All right, we have three characters left. We're going to take a break and then we're going to come back and do them.
Starting point is 00:23:04 This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on Prime. All season long, watch Prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays, the biggest goals, can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer.
Starting point is 00:23:46 Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, coming back, our summer NBA characters of the year, Tyler Parker, Chris Ryan joining us as well. Tyler, we have three left. Who's number three? Rudy Gobert in the three spot. And you can include you know jayden mcdaniels the untouchable jayden mcdaniels in this um you can uh you can throw in anthony edwards who had a quote last year
Starting point is 00:24:35 who basically said i'm not afraid of rudy gobert at the rim he does not put fear into me um yeah you could you could put the fact that they're gonna pay they're gonna they're gonna pay him 47 million dollars in 2026 which is so much money um it for first round picks walker kessler jerry vanderbilt who uh leandro don't call me uh barosa, Balmero, and Malik Beasley. I think that Gobert is going to make the Wolves really good, and I also think that's so much to give up for Rudy Gobert. Did you ever expect that we were going to talk about Rudy Gobert this much at any point as NBA fans?
Starting point is 00:25:23 Honestly, never. Even when he signed up for all that money, I was just sort of like, you know, I get why the Jazz have to sign him for it. And on them, you know, like he's obviously on the market. He's worth it. Right. But it, yeah, guys, you don't have to guard scare me.
Starting point is 00:25:38 And, you know, I know he can go catch a bunch of lobs and stuff. And, you know, hopefully D'Angelo Russell is going to look for him. But like it yeah I well dating back to what about the COVID like the Rudy Gobert game yes basically starts the pandemic that night because the Rudy Gobert game
Starting point is 00:25:55 that's it Donny Strachs Thunder Medical dude now we have this trade which is one of the craziest trades in the history of the league this is just way more he's he's become the lightning rod of like this argument, Chris, where it's like people, KFC is almost a Gobert truther at this point. Yeah. KFC is aggressive about it. But it's also interesting because we don't have a lot of examples. Utah is kind of like the forbidden zone of the NBA. Guys go in. Do they ever come out? Who can say?
Starting point is 00:26:26 I don't really know. It's like Darren Williams. I still don't believe that he ever left the Jazz when he was traded that time. Matt Harpering is going to make the 15-man this year, they're saying. It'd be really interesting to see him outside of the Utah kind of ecosystem.
Starting point is 00:26:45 And then, of course, as you guys alluded to, the whole Rudy Gobert trade situation introduced this idea of the untouchable Jaden McDaniels. And I want to make a mock untouchables poster that's Jaden McDaniels, Tyrese Maxey. Anybody else who's just like... Roddy Bubois has got to be in there. Roddy's the's just like only like Roddy Bubois Roddy Bubois
Starting point is 00:27:06 gotta be in there Roddy's the best it's the Roddy Bubois all stars but it's only the guys that like local fans know about really like
Starting point is 00:27:13 you know the McDaniels thing brought me so much joy because they make the trade they get hammered immediately people are just like oh my god that's so much
Starting point is 00:27:24 and then Woosh had the second tweet of like, the Timberwolves are elated. They didn't have to go with Jada McDaniels. Then, uh, the athletic, the guy who covers Minnesota for him, he had that in there too,
Starting point is 00:27:34 about Danny Ainge really wanted Jada McDaniels, but that was a bridge too far for the Timberwolves. And it was like, was it? So they, they basically made it seem like we'll give you more unprotected picks if you drop the Jada McDanielsves. And it was like, was it? So they basically made it seem like we'll give you more unprotected picks if you drop the Jaden McDaniels thing.
Starting point is 00:27:49 And it's like, wait a second. So what is he worth on the open market? Because I did my trade value list. I did 64 guys that did honorable mention and I didn't have them on it. So that's like 75 guys I had. And it never occurred to me to put Jaden McDaniels on that list. So is he
Starting point is 00:28:08 worth, Tyler, is he worth apparently two unprotected firsts? I don't understand it. It's wild that that was a hang up. I don't I guess
Starting point is 00:28:24 it could go one or two ways, right? Either he's boobwa or he's like, you know, pool or something whenever people were trying to throw him in trades for a while. Right. And then he blooms into something. I think he's good. For the record, I do like him and I think he's good. No, I get what you're saying, though.
Starting point is 00:28:36 I get what you're saying. But there's a difference between being good and being worth that number of picks. Like would they have included him if it was for Durant? Obviously not. Not at this point. I just give you a little bit of ombudsman commentary
Starting point is 00:28:52 on your pods recently. Yeah. The trade value column is now entering the Avatar 2 zone. The amount of references you make to it, but it's like nobody's seen any footage yet. Does anyone even know if it exists? You're like, I've just been waiting for technology to catch up with me
Starting point is 00:29:10 so that I can make this thing. It's like when they say the car stopped in the Zapruder film and the frames got cut out. There's no proof of it. It's just, there's a thing that some people said, cause they claim to have seen it. Same thing with my trade value list. On the McDaniels thing. So here's my take. Should I go wind horse and do the fingers? I think the Timberwolves, they never made a trade before.
Starting point is 00:29:35 And I think they were getting crushed. And I think they were in full panic. At least the owner was. Mark, what's his name? Ioli? Mark Ioli. Mark Ioli. Who's Mark Ioli? Mark Lorry? Mark Ioli. Who's Mark Ioli? I don't know.
Starting point is 00:29:48 Mark Ioli is a sandwich that I've had a couple times. So I think they were frantically trying to spin some sort of win from the trade that wasn't just, we've traded way too much for Rudy Gobert. And the odds on Fandor are 36-1 for them to
Starting point is 00:30:03 win the title. This is the first all-in trade where they couldn't even get to 30 to one for the roster to win the title. So I think, I think they started pushing this McDaniels angle hard
Starting point is 00:30:13 to try to be like, oh, and we got Gobert and we didn't give up Jada McDaniels. Just feels very like they were in a room just like we got to come up with something.
Starting point is 00:30:23 We got to come up with some way to make it seem like we didn't just overpay for this guy. But it was new owner syndrome, as we talked Sunday. It did feel like some damage control. One of the things that I thought was telling, and as a fan of another small market team in the Thunder, that dropped kind of where the McDaniels, you know, bit was in there and all that stuff. One of the reasons that they gave for why that, you know, they were pumped up about getting Gobert is that it would be hard to find
Starting point is 00:30:56 another star player who is open to Minnesota the way Gobert was. And that's not nothing. And, like, I, you know, and i don't say that as a dig at minnesota because i like you know it would be awesome to go play with anthony edwards like sign me up yeah but it like that's i totally get that being part of the equation i if i'm tim conley i'm tripling down on jayden mcdaniel stuff i'm saying that the only reason we did Gobert was because we thought he would create a great culture for Jaden McDaniels to thrive.
Starting point is 00:31:30 Dot, dot, dot. And Anthony Edwards. You're misleading with the McDaniels thing. They should put Jaden McDaniels on the media guide cover. I like how Bobby Marks is the cap expert for ESPN. Tyler's like our small market expert.
Starting point is 00:31:46 That's right. Let's go to our small market expert, Tyler Parker. How important is it to Minnesota that Rudy Gobert wanted to play there? Hey, he actually wants to be there, guys. He actually wants to go. It's not nothing. It's like Fred Fraschella when he was the international expert guy for like five years in the draft. The draft I did where
Starting point is 00:32:08 it's like, they picked Giannis. Let's go to Fran. Fran's actually seen him. He's been in the room with him. I think we have spent more time talking about Rudy Gobert than any probably inessential, really good all-star player since Roy Hibbert. The two years of Roy Hibbert.
Starting point is 00:32:23 Oh, yeah. The verticality wars. The verticality. There were features. really good all-star player since Roy Hibbert, the two years of Roy Hibbert conversation. The verticality wars. The verticality, there were features. He made the conference finals twice. They beat the Knicks because the Knicks couldn't solve Roy Hibbert. And now you look back and you're like, man, that was a lot of Roy Hibbert we were doing there for two years on Grantland.
Starting point is 00:32:39 I think Gobert will be the same. All right, number two, Tyler, what do you got? Well, number two and number one, I think we can just lump and talk together. what do you got well number two and number one i think we can just lump and talk together kairi at two and katie at one i think i mean and you can just the entire whole nets kind of fiasco here i think is probably worth two slots but it uh yeah kairi you know winds up opt in to the final year of his deal, and then basically as soon as he clicked the yellow button on the DocuSign,
Starting point is 00:33:11 Rich Kleiman hits send on the, hey, get me out of here email. And it is, yeah, it's a pretty wild collapse, and I think that nobody looks good, really, at all. On some level, I get the people who say that, hey, they enabled this behavior for this long. How dare they all of a sudden try to get strong about it? I kind of get that. But I also think that Kyrie is not to be trusted as an employee at this point and I don't know what Durant is thinking you know hitching his wagon to him um and so yeah
Starting point is 00:33:57 it's been it's been pretty wild to to watch from the hardened trade like when they got him to this point. It's just they lived so many lives as an NBA team and it has not been a long time. Chris, where would you rank their friendships among the most tragic friendships we've had in sports
Starting point is 00:34:20 or pop culture? Would you put them over Axel Foley and Mikey Tandino? Just to bad match friendships? What's the one from At Close Range where it's like Sean Penn and his friend? Yeah, it's like I don't even know now what's theater
Starting point is 00:34:37 and what's real. I think there's a little bit of a growing sentiment that actually the Nets might just wait this out. It's not a growing sentiment. That's Nets might just wait this out. And, you know, it's not a growing sentiment. That's what they're going to do.
Starting point is 00:34:48 They're not going to give KD away. They're wired the same way that Darrell was with Ben Simmons. They're just, they're not going to be like, cool, here's this asset we have. We'll take 50 cents on the dollar for him. Can we do a little quasi recent history lesson and talk about when Kobe asked
Starting point is 00:35:02 to be traded? Because I was trying to remember this story before we did the pod today. Did he go on sports radio and say he'd rather play on Pluto than play for the Lakers again? Was that true? I don't remember that part. I just remember Chicago and Detroit
Starting point is 00:35:17 were involved. Was it the Clippers, right? The Clippers were the one. Yeah, I remember that. No, but Detroit was the one that almost happened. Okay. Yeah, it was like Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince and Picks and some other stuff. And I think at some point, Dr. Buss famously stepped in and was like, what are we doing?
Starting point is 00:35:40 We're not trading this guy. But I think it was going to be the Pistons. So, you know, this has happened. Hakeem almost, there was a stretch there where Hakeem was in the trade rumors,
Starting point is 00:35:50 getting shopped a little bit, and then they didn't trade him. They won two titles. There was a lot of Iverson, Larry Brown stuff. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cerruti says,
Starting point is 00:35:59 the quote is, at this point, I'll go play on Pluto right now. That's what Kobe said about, yeah, he got super unhappy. They worked it out. And I think with Durant, you know, they're not going to give him away and put themselves in a situation not to have a chance to win the title.
Starting point is 00:36:17 So if like New Orleans is like, here's Brandon Ingram and a thousand picks, maybe they'll do it. I don't know, but that's still 60, 70% on the dollar for this year's team. I would have, I personally would have had Jaden McDaniels won Tyler on this list. I actually think he's been
Starting point is 00:36:35 the breakout star of the summer because I'm positive that unless you're a hardcore NBA person, you've had, you haven't, you don't know what he looks like. You vaguely remember seeing him in a couple of Timberwolves
Starting point is 00:36:44 playoff games. You might think you're talking about Jalen when you say you know what he looks like. You vaguely remember seeing him in a couple Timberwolves playoff games. You might think you're talking about Jalen when you say you know who he is. You might think you're talking about Jalen McDaniels and not Jaden McDaniels. Right. I might have even called him Jalen McDaniels on this podcast when it's Jaden. Okay, I have some of my honorable mentions for you. First of all, cannot believe Skinny Luca didn't get even a mention. Yeah, honestly, that's a good point.
Starting point is 00:37:11 I don't know where you were. I feel like, I know it's summer. You're having some rosé on the beach. Just kind of chilling. I don't know what you're up to. Maybe you're not as focused as usual, but that Luca biceps photo, you're usually all over stuff like that, but we'll give you a pass. It is the summertime.
Starting point is 00:37:27 I should give a shout out then to the person who did the shading on those biceps. They did a great job. They look... It's Damien Lillard's social guy. He was doing the Rancho de Blazers thing and he came in for free. I have as a summer character, Kawhi,
Starting point is 00:37:44 just because he's the opposite of every one of these other guys. There's character Kawhi Just because he's the opposite of Every one of these other guys There's no Kawhi updates We haven't seen him do anything I don't know where he is I don't know where he lives I don't know if he's 100% I don't know if he likes the Clipper moves
Starting point is 00:37:57 I don't know if he's excited for the season He's just Where is he? One of my favorite things is towards the end of the regular season and in the beginning of the playoffs was seeing Kawhi and Paul George on the bench at Clippers games because they were literally dressed the way I dressed throughout COVID where it was Patagonia shorts and t-shirts
Starting point is 00:38:19 and both at once clearly had not come from working out but were not in any way trying to dress up for being on the bench for an NBA game. They were just like, yeah, work from home, brother. It's the,
Starting point is 00:38:31 it's the revolution. I really want that to be a continuing trend. Like Tyler, was he excited about John Wall? Did he have input on it? We just don't know. I feel like the, I feel like the last time that we got is,
Starting point is 00:38:43 was the last time we got a public sighting when he was eating chicken fingers on the sidelines of the Super Bowl and he wasn't clapping like the rest of the team was clapping and he wasn't? Is that the last time that people saw him in public? There was... Yeah, maybe. There was video of him. Remember what Chris mentioned where he's
Starting point is 00:38:59 hitting a couple threes and people got excited that he might be coming back for the playing game. It's amazing. These guys are so omnipresent. KD is ready to fight with anybody on Twitter. LeBron comes jumping off the top rope every once in a while with these tweets.
Starting point is 00:39:15 He knew all along. He does his whole thing. On down the line, Kyrie, and then Kawhi is just gone. Two more for me. Popovich? A guy you've, both of you guys like a lot. I just think it's
Starting point is 00:39:32 hilarious that they are the favorites for Nata for Wimbynjaba or whatever we're going to end up calling it. Popovich had this long quote about tanking. Remember they were going for the playing game and he gave this long soliloquy on tanking. Right.
Starting point is 00:39:49 Thanks to Justin Termini for recirculating this on Twitter. He said, part of it is, it's just not who we are. It's not who I am. I can't operate like that, which might not be the most intelligent overall philosophy to have. And I get that, but we am who we am. We're going to go out. We're going to go ahead and compete. I think the young players gain a real understanding of a philosophically moral space where it's the right thing to do to continue to compete.
Starting point is 00:40:15 Frankly, I don't know how I'd go to my team and say, okay, we're not going to compete the way we should, or how you'd get that across or with a wink and a nod. I think you do the players the disservice if they're not able to go out and perform at the best of their ability. I think the lessons to be learned
Starting point is 00:40:30 are very important as their careers advance. You hope that in the long run they gain value from that that will help them compete at an even higher level. I understand the opposite. I just can't do it.
Starting point is 00:40:41 Does he know Murray's not on the team anymore? They just traded 25-year-old Murray. They traded White. I think they're... I don't even know who their starting point guard is. It might very well be Doug McDermott playing point forward.
Starting point is 00:40:54 There's some... A lot of primo. A lot of primo. Like, what happened? Like, are they going to trade Jakob Pertl into the Celtics trade exception? Like, they're clearly tanking. So, Tyler, long-time Popologist, how is Pop going to spin this to, They're clearly tanking. So Tyler, longtime Popologist, how is Pop going
Starting point is 00:41:06 to spin this to, we're not tanking, this is actually great. This reminds me of the old days when I was coaching college. It's all about improving the young guys and try to spin it. I did see that he mentioned that it was like, he referenced that it was he was whenever the the murray trade came down the quote that came out of the you know of from popovich or whoever with the spurs was like oh pop's pumped it's like his cal pomona days now or whatever and so i think that that is gonna be the like you know what pop thought that he that he was ready to hang it up. He was ready to give it up. But you know what?
Starting point is 00:41:46 He's been around these young guys, and they've just pumped him full of life, and he's ready, and he's energized. It's not about rings anymore. It's about teaching. And I'm sure that's music to Adam Silver's ears. You know what I mean? One of the things you really want from one of your professional basketball teams is an homage to Pomona.
Starting point is 00:42:04 A team that is one of the only teams who lost to Caltech in basketball all the time. And that's real. I think that that's how they'll sell it. I think in actuality probably somebody put some Wim Boniana tape in front of him. so i'm you know at seven three hitting step backs and he was like all right cool that sounds good like i you know i think he i think if he's got a chance to get you know his new tim duncan right like i i get him
Starting point is 00:42:39 um well this guy might be more than tim duncan we're right yeah but and just and it's not just when binyama like obviously like he's the he's the big dude but there's so many other dudes at the top of this draft that people are pumped about too so i think maybe maybe he feels a little bit safer doing that this year in particular because of that but no i'm it's it's always funny whenever like people finally realize that tanking is sometimes just the one answer for certain teams and certain organizations to improve and build a winner that's sustainable. And it's funny when people come to that realization and just kind of have to deal with that fact. It would make no sense for this person to just continue to try to, to go 41 and 41.
Starting point is 00:43:27 Right. One, one quick late arrival to this characters of the air who I don't think was, should have been eligible for the top five, but we should monitor him as John Morant, the 500 tip. There's a black Jesus story. He's filming a docuseries.
Starting point is 00:43:42 I just, I want to keep my eye on him. I feel like I got one word like I could see him coming in hard on the new media thing and attacking somebody. Like just a random Chris Broussard, John Ranch just goes at him hard type of situation. I just want to send our scouts toward him, Tyler. My thing with Ja is I love Ja,
Starting point is 00:44:02 but when he started to tweet at some about some of the warriors stuff like you know not 24 hours after the title yeah and say and and i you know i i'm not big into agreeing with you know draymond he has plenty of people that do that for him but like draymond is right that there's no way that whenever john tweeted yeah bring them to the m or whatever on christmas and it's like what are you talking about why are you ever you're not in the discussion anymore guys steph curry's not traveling on christmas for the rest of his life like it's not gonna you know it's it it's uh those i i do worry about that but i also kind of like it a little bit i like that he's this kind of uh freewheeling
Starting point is 00:44:47 you know what i mean um because i think the nba is better whenever there's like more people like talking to each other i like the pro wrestling angle yeah i like i i like the theater of it, and I like a guy who just by nature of him tweeting something, he can start to develop rivalries that either the rivalry doesn't exist yet or he can intensify it because as the league gets to more and more of these stars who have know, stars who have, you know, one and two year deals and stuff and teams stop feeling less familiar. Some of those like
Starting point is 00:45:29 intense rivalries can kind of go away. You know what I mean? And I like that there's a guy who's trying to kind of, you know,
Starting point is 00:45:38 stir the pot. My last one. I can't believe you didn't mention this one. Jeannie Buss yes can I read the tweet? you read the tweet Chris and then I'll give you my take ok 11.11pm
Starting point is 00:45:53 on July 3rd 11.11pm PST so a late night tweet for any New York Lakers fans I miss KB he would understand and explain everything that I'm not allowed to. Honestly, he was the greatest Laker ever.
Starting point is 00:46:10 He understood team over self, meaning your rewards would come if you valued team goals over your own, then everything would fall into place. All can reply. So this is not a person who tweets a lot. If you go through her timeline, I think she
Starting point is 00:46:26 has less than 10 tweets in the last two months. One of those tweets was on May 14th where she tweets something of John C. Reilly playing her dad and she says, it's clear my thoughts on this show
Starting point is 00:46:41 to see the real story, watch the Laker docuseries coming to Hulu later this year. Meanwhile, someone sent me this clip and asked if it's accurate. It is. When a star player and owner align, winning happens. Heart, Dr. Buss. So now we have, she's done less than 10 tweets in two months. Two of the tweets are about an owner and a star player being aligned on their vision on a team.
Starting point is 00:47:05 I'm sorry. That can't be a fucking accident. Like, what are we doing? It did feel like it was a spiritual successor to LeBron's infamous directed at Kevin Love tweet. Stop trying to figure out a way to whatever fit out and fit in. It felt a lot like someone
Starting point is 00:47:30 given LeBron some of the things that he had. Yeah, for sure. So Chris, my guess is LeBron, this is a guess. Don't aggregate this. My guess is LeBron and his camp are pushing them to give up one of those
Starting point is 00:47:46 picks or two of those picks in a Kyrie trade. It's probably going to have to be a third team if they pull it off. Westbrook's going to have to go somewhere. Something will have to go to the Nets and then Kyrie goes to the Lakers, but they'll have to give up that 2027 first, 2029 first, whatever. She probably just doesn't
Starting point is 00:48:02 want to do it. She's probably like, I don't want to bring that guy in. I don't want to give up even more assets down the road. And if there's a little bit of a standoff, then maybe it comes out in that tweet. It's just a theory. But you can't tell me that this was just an accident, that these were two of the last nine tweets that she's done were about how an owner and a star player need to be on the same page the flip side of that stupid yeah but the other side to that is like does she even know how to use twitter like not even like like are we sure that she she's like that she's like yeah totally i'm gonna send sub tweets like she doesn't tweet very much the funnier part to me is also like linda right think Linda Rambis, could Linda Rambis have gotten her phone?
Starting point is 00:48:45 That's what I was going to ask. I hope it was like, I hope it was, I was, I was thinking, I kind of hope it was Kurt though. I'd be great if it was Kurt. If Kurt just slipped in,
Starting point is 00:48:53 they were all hanging, they were all hanging out, talking about like, hey, so who do you like in this? Jeannie's like, I got to go to the bathroom. She leaves her phone on the table
Starting point is 00:49:02 and somebody just grabs it. They have the pre-written LeBron sub-tweet ready. I don't know who else. I know she loves Kobe, but I don't know who else she's talking about. The more outrageous thing is the idea that she has not watched Winning Time. The more outrageous thing,
Starting point is 00:49:15 I have pretty good info that she has. The more outrageous thing, would you have said Kobe from start to finish was like the most awesome team builder? Is that going to go on his resume? I thought we practiced to get better, Mitch! There are Jeremy Lin stories from one of those years where Kobe was injured and like on the trade deadline day for the first time in a long time, he showed up at the practice facility and they were like, hey, why are you here? He's like, I'm just going to see some of you bums for the last time today.
Starting point is 00:49:47 I thought that piece was funny. I feel like we covered all the relevant characters. My apologies to Jabberant. We're probably going to go on further. That was the one you were going to add, Chris? Genie. Good to see you guys.
Starting point is 00:50:02 Chris, you're still cranking out the watch? Yep. Tyler, you're cranking out piecesfortheringer.com. And I know this OKC renaissance with Chet and just having Chet and Poku on the same team and just a bunch of amorphous guys with high ceilings that nobody knows what position they are. This was your dream as a Thunder fan.
Starting point is 00:50:22 I'm going to dress as a skeleton for every game. I'm pumped up. I'm stoked. That's fine. The skeletons would be a good nickname for those guys. It could work. Alright, good to see you guys. Thank you. Thanks, Bill. Bye. When you ride transit, please be safe. Yeah, be safe.
Starting point is 00:50:40 Because what you do, others will do too. Others will do it too. So don't take shortcuts across tracks. Don't do that. In fact, just don't walk on tracks at all. Not at all. Trains move quietly so you won't hear them coming. You won't hear them coming. See? Safe riding sets an example. Yeah, an example for
Starting point is 00:50:56 me. Because safety is learned. It's learned. Okay, give it up. Give what up? Really? Really, really. This message is brought to you by Metrolinks. Okay, Raheem Palmer is here. You can hear him on the Ringer Gambling Show. I was just telling you before we came on
Starting point is 00:51:12 that it's gotten grim with the betting. I was doing some Wimbledon bets. I had a Simona Halep parlay with Sinner to win a set off Djokovic that hit today. I couldn't have been more excited. I've been riding a little Nick Kyrgios. That's how desperate we've already become. Are you going to bet Summer League? What's your policy on Summer League?
Starting point is 00:51:33 You know, I pick my... I watch the games. Actually, I did bet a Summer League game the other day. I was watching the first half of the Warriors versus the Sacramento Kings. I'm like, the Warriors can't score. Give me the first half under. I'll do stuff like that. I'll bet the totals. I'll look at a team
Starting point is 00:51:48 and say, can they score? Then I'll just bet the unders. Wow. I would suggest riding Simona Halep on the rest of the tennis way because I actually think she's going to win Wimbledon. Now watch. She's going to end up losing. I think she's plus 170
Starting point is 00:52:03 now to win the tournament, but she was the 16th seed and sometimes there's value with the seeds because you know the seeds are lower just because they haven't played enough
Starting point is 00:52:11 and they do the rankings that way and she's won before the whole thing so I recommend her alright we're going to talk basketball futures
Starting point is 00:52:18 specifically because we've had pretty much every major free agency thing happen except for KD and I am actually I think it's more likely KD stays at this point. Brooklyn is 27-1 to win the title right now.
Starting point is 00:52:33 I was looking at the odds on FanDuel, and there's basically 17 teams with realistic chances, right? All the way up from Boston's 5-1 with the best odds to New Orleans' 55-1. There's 17 teams in that window. First question, because you do this, you're good at it. Are you more of a long shot guy with futures or are you more of a, oh, I think that team's going to win. I'm jumping on that price. Because at some point, betting Boston 5-1, I just don't think those are good odds. Even if you think they're going to win, I just don't like the value at all. What do you think is the right value? I'm a big, I'm not a big long shot guy. I like to just lock in on a team. And if I feel like they have a shot because the NBA, I mean,
Starting point is 00:53:14 it's like unlike any other sport, the team with the best player tends to be there and they tend to win. So it's like, I gave out the Clippers. I gave that, I gave that out on your podcast. I think it was at plus 850. It's down to plus 700. There's some plus 600s in the market. So I'm locked in on the Clippers. I think that's the bet that I really like. But I do like, I think right now with this KD stuff going on, you can't
Starting point is 00:53:35 lose by picking the long shot. Right. So there's five favorites, basically. Boston 5-1, Milwaukee plus 550, Phoenix plus 650, Clippers 7-1, Golden State 7-1, Milwaukee plus 550. Phoenix plus 650. Clippers 7-1. Golden State 7-1. I personally think Milwaukee is the favorite in my mind to win the title because they got Middleton coming back.
Starting point is 00:53:53 They kept everybody. I think Joe Ingles is going to be important for them. I'm sure they got one more, you know, whatever. Boston, Milwaukee, just coming out of that conference, I do think there's a separation with the top two versus the rest of the two. The West is like so much harder to figure out. And that's probably the KD.
Starting point is 00:54:10 If he does get traded, he's probably going West, right? I'm not buying the Toronto stuff. Yeah. I mean, it's tough to say. I mean, like, cause I mean, if they, I mean, my size is he's worked off miracles. So I never want to count him out.
Starting point is 00:54:24 Yeah, but he's worked off miracles where he's gotten somebody on incredible value. Yeah, he's worked off miracles. So I never want to count him out. Yeah, but he's worked off miracles where he's gotten somebody at incredible value. Yeah, that's true. Doing Barnes and Siakam. Marcel and I talked about this the other day, where you're basically, all you have left is KD and Van Vliet and OG and Inobi and Chris Boucher. Yeah, that's not a championship team.
Starting point is 00:54:39 Yeah, you don't want to put KD in the same situation he was in. The Phoenix piece was interesting because it seemed like there was a way to keep him, Chris Paul and Booker, and then you just kind of figure it out. But Aiton's value has been a lot, I think, lower than I think all of us expected. I mean, it's July 5th right now. I haven't even heard him link to a team yet. So you're still on the Clippers 7-1.
Starting point is 00:55:02 Make the case. I mean, look, the NBA is all about wins. And you have two of the best in Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. And then you have Nick Batum. You have Marcus Morris. You have Terrence Mann. To me, I think, and people kill me for saying this, but Ty Lue is this generation's version of Phil Jackson.
Starting point is 00:55:23 And I say that not in the sense that he has 10 championships or whatever, but he's the best at getting the best out of the best players. I mean, he won a championship with Kyrie Irving. Right. I mean, nobody else has been able to come close to coaching Kyrie Irving. He's been able to coach this Clippers team. He's got more out of him than Doc Rivers did. And I mean, you add John Wall,
Starting point is 00:55:47 that solves their point guard issues. And they don't need John Wall to beat John Wall. They just need him to just help get some easy baskets, get into transition. I mean, they still got Zubat. They still can go small. So I think out of the West, they're my favorite. So I think that price is going to eventually go down
Starting point is 00:56:02 once they get off to a good start. I think they're the high ceiling, low basement team. They have the biggest variance of anybody. Because there's also a world where Kawhi is just not the same. Paul George is another year where he's banged up. Like we saw with somebody like Blake Griffin, those injuries start adding up
Starting point is 00:56:18 and then at some point, you're just not the same guy anymore. And we saw what happened with Blake. I don't know if Paul George is at that point yet. But it's interesting that we have the five that's emerged and that the Warriors don't have the best thoughts. As important as Gary Payton was to them, it's still hard for me to believe they're going to be fifth on the arts charts right now when they're bringing everybody back and they have all these young guys that I think will ascend at least a little bit plus veteran minimum. Who knows? Then you're in this next group with Miami 12 to one Philly 14 to one and the Lakers 12 to one, which is, you should honestly,
Starting point is 00:56:52 you should be evaluated by a psychiatrist. If you bet on that Philly's kind of interesting at 14 to one, because you could talk yourself into the heart in case Miami is a KD destination, which that could go from 12 to one to three to one the moment that trade goes through, but ultimately not a lot of value. When we get to that next range, you know, Brooklyn's
Starting point is 00:57:14 27 to one and they might be running it back. I'm on the same page as you. I mean, you've been saying it and I just, I don't see how they get anything of vibe. I don't think, look, superstar trades historically, you've been saying it and I just, I don't see how they get anything of vibe. I don't think, look, superstar trades historically, you're basically getting 75 cents to the dollar, a quarter to the dollar. And I just don't see how they trade KD. And even look at the Phoenix deal,
Starting point is 00:57:37 you get back Bridges and Aiton, which they're not really interested in. I mean, you mentioned the Toronto deal. It just feels like the best thing to do is just to run it back and then see what happens. Yeah, and you think they signed TJ Warren. They kind of snuck that one in. They brought Patty Mills back. Ben Simmons, we think, is coming back. Joe Harris,
Starting point is 00:57:58 we think, is coming back. Seth Curry had surgery. He's back. They have Cam Thomas who maybe they could get a little more, but you start going through and talent-wise, it's more talent than they had last year. Like a month ago,
Starting point is 00:58:11 they were 7-0-1 to win the title and then the KD trade request, the odds went the other way. I actually think it was too much of an overreaction because I still feel like the most likely scenario is he stays. And then Kyrie in a contract year, who knows?
Starting point is 00:58:22 I mean, if anyone's liable to throw a contract year have the tubes, it's him. Where it gets interesting here with the value, Denver 24 to 1, Dallas 25 to 1, Memphis 25 to 1. You're known to make proclamations from time to time. Could you see one of those three in the conference finals at least? I would say like, if I give you 50, if I give you even odds,
Starting point is 00:58:48 one of those three will make the conference finals. That's it. Would you take it? I would take Denver. Okay. Me too. I mean, look, you got one of the best players in the world in Nicole Jokic and then you bring back Murray. I mean, it's just I can't count out Jokic.
Starting point is 00:59:03 I'm pricing him like the same way I would like a LeBron James or a Joel Embiid. Because it's just, he's that good. Bruce Brown, little sneaky signing. Yeah. I kind of like that one. They got a little wing help in KCP. Feels like they're a guy short. I'm not sure if they're a tax name.
Starting point is 00:59:20 Dallas, definitely. I don't know how they fixed the Brunson thing. Where to just not get anything back For that spot Makes me nervous And then Memphis This Jaron Jackson thing He got hurt again
Starting point is 00:59:32 And they're saying Ah December But we know with basketball It's like December Turns into February Who knows And then you lose slow-mo Right
Starting point is 00:59:40 And they lose slow-mo I don't think You know And they added some young guys But Hopefully Jal will be healthy with them Minnesota trades everything they have for Gobert
Starting point is 00:59:50 and they're still 36-1 they have the 8th best odds in the West to win the title if I'm trading everything I have for a player I better have better odds than 36-1 after the trade oh yeah without a doubt I actually have a futures bet involving the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Starting point is 01:00:06 Let's hear it. Okay, it's Anthony Edwards' most improved player, 12-1 at FanDuel. Okay, so it's like everybody universally panned that Gobert did, and I think it was the right thing to do, but in the short term, Gobert does
Starting point is 01:00:22 make them a better regular season team. And when you look at the history of the most improved player award, it's usually a player. If you look at like eight of the last 10 years, it's a player who goes from being a good player to an all-star. Look at Anthony Edwards. Last year, he was 21 points per game. In the playoffs, he's at 25 points per game.
Starting point is 01:00:41 If this Minnesota Timberwolves team is a 50-55 win team, he's an all-star. And you look at the Minnesota Timberwolves last year, they underperformed their Pythagorean expectation by two games. They won 46 games. They probably should have won 48. And you look at Anthony Edwards. I mean, in the playoffs, 25 points per game. If he's averaging 25 points per game and this team is a playoff team, he's probably the most improved player. So he's at 12 to one, he's favorite. But I think that's a little bit,
Starting point is 01:01:10 I don't think that's price property. I think there's still a ton of value. There's, this is a good award to bet on when there's so many candidates that basically you can get any favorite for 12 to one, 15 to one, whatever. Yeah, as you said, he's 12 to one. I thought that, that one jumped out at me too. I thought Mobley at 36 to one was the to one, whatever. Yeah, as you said, he's 12 to one. I thought that one jumped out at me too.
Starting point is 01:01:26 I thought Mobley at 36 to one was the other one. Based on the formula you just laid out of the good guy that jumps, because we've seen... The thing with Mobley is they don't like to give the award to second year players. So you think third year is the year?
Starting point is 01:01:42 Third year is the year. John Morant won it in his third year. I think Brandon Ingram, John Morant won it in his third year. I think Brandon Ingram, well, he was about fourth or fifth or whatever, but it's that third year where they make the jump because they know that rookies, they don't want, I mean, obviously a rookie's not going to get it,
Starting point is 01:01:55 but a second year player, it's like they're assumed to be better than a rookie. So I don't think any second year player has ever won it. I like your Edwards call because, you know, I didn't like, obviously I absolutely despise the Minnesota trade, has ever won it. I like your Edwards call because, you know, I didn't like, obviously, I absolutely despise the Minnesota trade,
Starting point is 01:02:08 but short term, it's going to make them a 50-win team. It's going to give him a defensive backbone and the whole thing. I thought one thing that really
Starting point is 01:02:16 jumped out to me was the rookie of the year where you can get Bankero at plus 360 still. And he's the most NBA-ready guy of all those guys. It's the best situation. And I just, I was kind of stunned.
Starting point is 01:02:31 I thought he would be like, I don't know, plus 150, plus 175 range. I just think he's immediately going to come in and put up stats. That team will be fun to watch. And I didn't understand those odds. What'd you think of that plus 360? Yeah, I did think that's a little,
Starting point is 01:02:45 I mean, like I agree with you. I think, I mean, he's a guy who can come in. I mean, wing players are it now. And I mean, this Magic team can't score. So they're going to need him to come in and score. And I mean, like with the depth around them, they could be a fringe playing tournament team. And I think he could lead them there.
Starting point is 01:03:03 And I mean, you look at Jabari Smith in Houston, Chet in Oklahoma City. I mean, those are teams who I don't expect them to do much. So I think this is way too low and there's definitely some value in Apollo. Murray at 11-1 is a fun one. If he just goes to the Kings
Starting point is 01:03:18 and he just hit threes and 17 a game and the Kings are actually better than we think. Jabari, there's a little bit of a, I have a chip on my shoulder because I thought I was going first and they didn't take me. And now I'm going to be working. But to me, it seems like it's would seem ambitious for him.
Starting point is 01:03:36 Palo. I I'm stunned by the ads. All right. Here's my favorite NBA future. The Chicago bulls are 46 to 1 to win the East. They were 46 and 36 last year. Lonzo played 35 games. Patrick Williams played 17. And Caruso was hurt basically for half the year, came back in the playoffs and was a little bit hurt. They're going to be throwing out starting five. Lonzo, Levine, DeRozan, Patrick Williams, and Vucevic. Coming off the bench, Dragic, Caruso, Derek Jones,
Starting point is 01:04:13 Andre Drummond, Terry, the rookie they picked. I like that guy, Ayo. I was in on him. Kobe White, you figure they either traded him or something, but pretty deep team. And I think people forgot how good Patrick Williams was in flashes, at least as a defender. I thought the Dragic signing, at first it was like, wow, why is he going to Chicago? I don't know.
Starting point is 01:04:36 I'm not saying they're going to win the East, but I am shocked that they are so far behind Miami and Philly specifically, that Miami's 12 to 1, Philly's 4-1, Chicago's 46-1. That doesn't make sense to me. I do think it's a little high, and I think you're going to end up having some cash out by you. I mean, I'm not the biggest DeRozan fan at all. Like, I mean, he's store brand Kobe to me. It's just like when it's playoff time, I can't really count on him. And I think
Starting point is 01:05:07 when the Bulls get into the playoffs, you're going to see the gap between a DeRozan and a Giannis, the gap between DeRozan and a Butler. And I think that's where it hurts you. But I think you have a tremendous cash out value. I think any team with DeRozan, you're basically going to... And I wrote a column about this last year when the Bulls were the second seed. You're basically looking at them like the 2014 to 2018 Raptors. They're going to be a great regular season team, but when the playoffs start, they just don't have the guys. But that's good for 46-1 if they're a good regular season team.
Starting point is 01:05:42 I can buy in my value with that, and then I can go against it once the playoffs start. You figure they're ready to run one team i i can buy in my value with that and then i can go against it once the playoff starts you figure they're exactly you could even cash out i mean yeah they allow you to cash out these futures so you can get some value on that or you can hedge um so there's definitely some good value yeah i didn't understand that at all brooklyn is 14 to 1 to win the east by the way that that just jumped out at me is man like like, you know, Kevin Wilds was doing this bit on a first things first about this, about you watch the last dance documentary. I'm just stealing this from you.
Starting point is 01:06:11 Wilds. I'm sorry. And all the dysfunction that team had, right. Pippen's not going to play. They're going to try to trade Pippen. This team's so old. And,
Starting point is 01:06:18 you know, and then all of a sudden they're in the playoffs again. And, you know, I'm not comparing them to the 98 bulls, but the point is sometimes you get rock bottom with this stuff. And then it gets to December.
Starting point is 01:06:29 It's like, oh, things are actually okay. And guess what? This team still has Kevin Durant and Kyrie's able to play every game again and they're shooting. And this was so weird, but all of a sudden this team is in the mix. So I don't know, the 14 to one,
Starting point is 01:06:42 I think they have the third most talent behind Milwaukee and Boston. They keep everybody. Obviously, Kyrie could blow it up in five seconds, but I think the odds are too high. I mean, at the end of the day, they lost four games to the Boston Celtics, who probably could have won the championship by a combined 18 points. Yeah. All those games were close in the fourth quarter. Yeah. And it's just like, I mean, look, if Kyrie plays a full season or not even a full season, I mean, he plays 40, 50 games.
Starting point is 01:07:10 This team's not a seven seed. Like, they just kind of caught a bad break. I mean, Kyrie didn't have the vaccine, obviously. I mean, look, he wasn't the only NBA player who didn't want to be vaccinated. He just happened to play in a city where they had this stupid rule that didn't apply anywhere else vaccinated. He just happened to play in a city where they had this stupid rule
Starting point is 01:07:25 that didn't apply anywhere else. So I think you get Kyrie and you get Kevin Durant. And then, I mean, Ben Simmons really solves a lot of their issues. So I think they're a top three, four seed if they bring everybody back. But I mean, I don't know what's going on
Starting point is 01:07:38 with the owner of Sean Marks. Yeah, who knows? Do you see that picture of Ben Simmons working out? Yeah. It was like right before Durant's trade request and the Nets tweeted this kind of Ben
Starting point is 01:07:49 Simmons snarl photo of like, I'm getting in shape. Look out, everybody. The thing is, Ben Simmons was really good. If he saw this back thing, I voted for him, I think, third-team All-NBA, maybe twice. You know? So it's not like, you know, that's a real thing. I think he's, I mean, I think his problems with the Sixers were overstated.
Starting point is 01:08:07 To me, Tobias Harris was worse than Ben in that series against the Hawks. I mean, Tobias Harris was their number two. Ben just doesn't want to shoot. And now he's on a team where he has Kyrie and Kevin Durant. He doesn't have to shoot. Any Summer League advice for us for gambling? One of my biggest approaches to Summer League is that I like to target teams who have second year players. As we all know in the NBA, basketball is the one sport in which one player can drastically impact the outcome of a game. So if you're looking at a team with a second or third year player in summer league, after having that NBA experience in that full year or two, it's like they come out to summer league and they're like men amongst boys. You look at the Memphis Grizzlies right now,
Starting point is 01:08:48 they're playing the Philadelphia 76ers as we speak. They have Zyra Williams out there. And I mean, that's a huge advantage to have a guy who has already played a full year, sometimes even played in the playoffs. So I like to target those teams. In addition, I think there's some other things that I like to target as well. I think if you target underdogs in the summer league, we have a positive expected value wager. I mean, since 2016, according to BetLabs, underdogs are 214 and 145. That's 60% against the spread. So, I mean, we all know the VIG is 52.38%. So if you hit 60%, I mean, you got a positive expected value wager betting those
Starting point is 01:09:26 underdogs. I think you can also approach underdogs on the money line as well. I mean, that's also a positive expected value wager. If they're covering, more often than not, they're going to win. I think underdogs are like 64 and 68 since 2016. So I think you got a positive expected value wager there as well. I mean, I think you look at some movement on the overs. I mean, I always talk about how I like to bet against human achievement on unders. But when you see some movement on the overs in these summer league games, it tends to work out. So those are some of my approaches.
Starting point is 01:09:57 I was just talking to somebody at a 4th of July party. We're talking about betting and they were saying how much they like betting the overs. And he was like, I know it's a dumb bet. I know they much they like betting the overs. And he was like, I know it's a dumb bet. I know they want me to bet the over, but it's just not fun to bet under. It's not fun to root against stuff. And I'm like, this is why the lines are high. You always get an extra point or two and that's where the value is. So I tend to look for unders all the time. I mean, there was a period of time where when I first started betting NBA, I'd say around 2010, 2011, 2012, I was betting a lot of first half overs. But I mean, that's all been correct.
Starting point is 01:10:31 Right. Well, you had a lot of success during the finals with the unders. I mean, the offense basically died in that series. What was it? After game three. It's just game four, game five, game six. That was it.
Starting point is 01:10:43 And you could see it. Yeah. I mean, that's's my strategy especially for the playoffs I like to bet a lot of under so alright you can hear Raheem on the Rear End Gambling Show we'll do some Summer League gambling stuff I get my guess would be FanDuel will have some some Summer League
Starting point is 01:11:01 MVP stuff I'm trying to figure out same game parlays for Yankees-Red Sox, because it's on. And we have, whenever Evaldi is pitching, I'm same-game parlaying him with like a Devers hit and the over, or maybe the under for that game
Starting point is 01:11:16 because it's Evaldi. But Evaldi against the Yankees, I like. So that was the one I was thinking with him. But I'll see what the matchup is. So you stay away from baseball too? I pick my spots in baseball. I know see what the matchup is. But you, so you stay away from baseball too. Um, I pick my spots in baseball. Um,
Starting point is 01:11:27 I know the year of the nationals, when the world series, we had the 25, the one, um, but I'm really picking, I mean, I'm,
Starting point is 01:11:32 I'm really big on picking my spot. So I'll like, I actually had an, um, I'm big on no score. First ending, ending. Like I love those.
Starting point is 01:11:41 Um, but I also, it's just like playoffs. That's when I, like I really jumped in. No score. First inning. Yeah, that's a good one. I'm going to just like playoffs that's when I like I really jump in no score first inning yeah that's a good one I'm gonna have to monitor that one
Starting point is 01:11:49 what else are we gonna do this is the most dead time of sports we've had in I think three years yeah I mean no score no score first inning is a good one especially when you got
Starting point is 01:11:56 two good pitchers I mean like your bet's over in 10 minutes you know if you won you know if you lost another one damn I wish FIBA just ended which is I, FIBA was excellent because it's just like I mean, like you got teams who were just really going all out. Like I think, damn, who did I catch the other day?
Starting point is 01:12:15 I caught Columbia Moneyline, like a big like a big money line. I mean, so it's just like and then I'm big on like live betting is really I mean, like live betting gives you so many different advantages. So I'm a big live bettor. Well, our big advantage and the big bet that you and I are going to make together this summer is the Anthony Joshua fight. And we will be fading Anthony Joshua and I cannot wait. And it's the lock of the year. I do not believe in him at all. It's going to be awesome. I hope the fight doesn't get canceled, but this is a rare once-in-a-year chance to bet against a boxer that you know cannot beat the other guy.
Starting point is 01:12:51 Yeah, I'm excited. I'm definitely excited for that one. What are the odds on that now? It's plus 166 for Joshua, right? Oh, my God. All right. We're on this. We'll talk offline.
Starting point is 01:13:04 Raheem Palmer, we'll see you on the Rainer Gambling Show. Good to on this. We'll talk offline. Raheem Palmer, we're seeing you on the Ring of Gambly show. Good to see you. Good to see you. All right. Zoe Simmons is here. My daughter, 17 years old.
Starting point is 01:13:15 She's been coming on this podcast really since when? Like you were like 11 or 12 giving us the teen culture. Teen culture updates. So we're going to do every summer you come in and tell us what's going on. Give us the big picture.
Starting point is 01:13:29 You levitate above everything that happened and explain the biggest things. There's two things that I think you can explain better than anyone I know. The first is Minions, which made an incredible, what did it make? $125 million this weekend? I wouldn't be surprised if it made more than that. So you were on this pretty early. You got super excited about it. You and your friend Ruby decided to go on Friday night dressed as Minions characters. And your mother and I were like, what is going on? We didn't understand it. We didn't understand it. And you were telling us
Starting point is 01:14:00 this movie is going to become a thing. All my friends are going. We're all dressing up. So when did Minions come out? Why is this a thing? Well, Minions have been around forever. It's one of those things like Stranger Things for me, I've grown up around it. It's something that's like been stable throughout my life. I've had movies come out and really every important year of my life. And they definitely do mean something like they're very funny and they're playful and they're nothing serious. How many Minions movies have there been? This was the fourth one, I think, or the fifth. So this is, compare it to something.
Starting point is 01:14:33 Compare it to something from my childhood. Like a phenomenon? Like this is, you have no idea. But Minions has never had quite the impact that it had this year. And social media has a big influx on that, like a really, really big role in why Minions was so huge this year. Because my generation just loves to take things and troll them and just make them absolutely ridiculous and play it up. So things like TikTok, where every single teenager is on this app from age range of like 12 to
Starting point is 01:15:05 19 and even older than that millennials are on tiktok but we all like have this secret code and we all prepared ourselves when the minions came out saying that there was gonna be a new movie like throughout this entire past month of june and july we have been posting shit about how we're all gonna go and dress up we're gonna wear wear suits and like this is going to be the met gala for teenagers going to see the minions movie and like it certainly did not fail because i've seen multiple tiktoks of theaters being rated by 15 to 17 year olds mosh pitting when yeet who plays in a part of the minions movie yeah which was like just it really pushed it over the edge for the Minions. Everyone was mosh pitting in the theater,
Starting point is 01:15:50 at the bottom of the theater, as Yeet played and the Minions were doing their thing. Can you explain to me what Minions is? Because I don't know. I don't even remember you watching this, which is weird because we've lived together your entire life. Yeah. The Minions are huge.
Starting point is 01:16:05 It's the entire movie series. It's not's not a superhero movie it's a super villain movie where the main guy grew has grown up around these little like yellow blobs who he adopted quote unquote when he was younger they kind of spawned in like a random part of al. They lived in some random tundra and they traveled all of their way to live with Gru. And then Gru adopted them and made them his minions to help him take over the world, basically. So the first one was in 2015. So you were like nine or 10 years old. Yeah. And since then, they've just been putting out movies and honestly a huge franchise because the minions have like they're so identifiable they're just like these little yellow blobs that we have come to know and love and now as 17 year old like tiktok you have no
Starting point is 01:16:58 idea the influence that it has on kids because we've been talking about should i be scared you should be scared of that because for months we've been talking about this. Or should I be scared? You should be scared of that. Because for months we've been talking about this and it really did happen. Like everyone went to these theaters dressed up as Minions or dressed in suits. Like all the boys went in suits. All the girls dressed up as Minions practically and went to the theaters and moshpitted
Starting point is 01:17:17 and it was like this entire inside joke that all of these teenagers had revolving around the Minions. Do you think the people who made the movie knew that was going to happen? Were they banking on this? All Disney movies make some references to more mature minds, even though
Starting point is 01:17:33 they're meant for younger kids. There were a few references in there that were like the Minions were hitting a stizzy and stuff like that. And they were smoking and just doing shit that teenagers recognize and think is funny. They they were like, they're smoking and just doing shit that teenagers recognize and think is funny. Like, they definitely cater
Starting point is 01:17:47 to multiple different audiences. And I think that teenagers think it's funny when there's like references made that are in reference to us. Because teenagers are morons? No, because it's like we have some sort of superiority
Starting point is 01:18:01 over the little kids in the movie theater. It's more of like a taking power over little kids, like something that's supposed to be a little kids movie the movie theater. It's more of like a taking power over little kids, like something that's supposed to be a little kids movie. And we're kind of taking it and trolling with it. Do you know what trolling means? I know what trolling means. Okay. I'm just making sure. So it was, it was just like, what am I like 200 years old? I don't know. I just don't know what words you know and what words you don't, but it was, it was just an entire joke.
Starting point is 01:18:20 And it really, it played through. It's scary the things that TikTok can do. Like when the first raid of Area 51 happened, allegedly before COVID, which was going to happen if COVID wasn't so absurd. But like the power that TikTok holds is definitely a scary thing. And the Minions movie definitely showed that in some way. I want to talk about the TikTok power, but before we let Minions go,
Starting point is 01:18:46 this was the first go-back-to-the-theater event for teenagers since the pandemic, right? It did. I felt going to this movie, of course, I wanted to see the Minions because I love the Minions and I think the movies are fabulous
Starting point is 01:19:00 and they're funny and they're very lighthearted and I just have a good time watching them. But I love going to movies. That was something that I loved most all throughout my middle school years, like going to Century City and being with my friends and like hanging out at the mall.
Starting point is 01:19:15 Like that was the greatest thing to me, like the all-time greatest thing. Until you found drugs. That's cap. And then cocaine changed. Yeah, cocaine and all the hard stuff came through. But it's just something childish that I had always held close to my heart. And I think a lot of kids my age did as well.
Starting point is 01:19:36 And the pandemic definitely took a toll on that. And people kind of got crazy. And we kind of lost track of like the childish innocence that everyone had and the minions kind of brought that back with making everyone go to the movie theater and it made it made all the money too it did what a success story it's really a wonderful thing i i sure hope that they put out some other movies that will bring us all together again as a as an age group and as a world in general well the other thing that brought everybody together was stranger things which we're not going to talk about yet because we'll do it at the end because we're going to spoil stuff okay true on the tiktok thing yeah there's a couple
Starting point is 01:20:12 things you said in there one was about basically you're saying tiktok is evil and can control the minds of teenagers i'm saying it's evil but it is it is an evil it's like it's It's a scary thing. Social media is something that no one will understand unless you've grown up with it. You could never understand social media the way that I understand social media because my entire life has been social media. I know the ins and the outs of it like you existed in a world for a long time where there was nothing like what i have now and like so many back in my day they used to deliver a newspaper and then we'd read it and then we'd throw it out social life is so different because of social media and tiktok and snapchat and like Instagram and all these things. Like I will go to parties and I'll go out to meet people and I'll see someone's face.
Starting point is 01:21:10 And I know that person. I'll be like, you're so-and-so. And they'll be like, you're so-and-so. And then we'll talk about some sort of mutual friend that we saw we had online. Like there's just all these automatic connections that you have to people because of social media, which is such a scary thing. And it's also such a reason. In some ways, it's a good thing, but then in other ways, it's frightening. It's frightening because it's like, you can also make so many assumptions about
Starting point is 01:21:33 somebody based on their social media profile. And then they become some sort of person in your head and then you meet them in real life and you're like, oh, they're actually normal. Because social media is not a real concept. It's something that exists on an online world, which is not, it's real, but it's not real. So all these people are not real to you. It's the real metaverse. Until you meet them. And it's just, it's such a perplexing concept because I meet all these people and I've seen them before and I see the things that they post and I make assumptions about them and then I meet them and I'm like, oh, they're actually cool or, oh, they actually suck and they seem like they'd be cool.
Starting point is 01:22:07 And it's just like, it's so weird. Well, some people can, their social media persona can be a lot more interesting than actually spending time with them. Social media is a snapshot of the best parts of your life. Yeah. And a lot of people don't take that into account and then compare themselves to the best parts of someone's life or most likely edited and all this stuff. Like social media is dangerous.
Starting point is 01:22:29 We know that. But TikTok. It's really dangerous for teenage girls. For teenage girls. Absolutely. I feel like I've navigated my way pretty well around it. with everything, like with how many followers you have, like all of these superficial things that you never think would matter, truly matter because social media is such a powerful concept in the life of someone like me. Well, you've seen all the studies, right? Where it's about, it's this picture of I'm at a dinner or I'm at a party or this is the best angle of me or I'm at
Starting point is 01:23:00 the beach and everything seems absolutely awesome. But then the person who's looking at it on their phone or whatever, maybe they're not having the most awesome day. Now it's in their head. Now you're looking at yourself like, what happened? What happened to me? It's evil. It really is. But it's also that they need it to be evil for it to work.
Starting point is 01:23:24 That's the way that, though. That's the way that it is. I mean, what would happen if the government put restrictions on how many hours kids could, what if it was like a driver's license where it tracked how long you were on it and once you hit like two hours? I mean, I feel like,
Starting point is 01:23:39 I was just talking to mom earlier. We're going on vacation in a few days and she was like, if you lose your phone, it will be detrimental. We won't be able to get it back. And I'm like, are you kidding me? I would never lose my phone. And it's like, that's scary to me. You'd lose mom, but not your phone. I would lose mom before I lose my phone. And I hate to say that because I love existing in the real world and I love hiking and I love nature and I love doing all these self-care and wellness things. But like I've existed around my phone
Starting point is 01:24:07 and social media and technology for my entire life. And because of that, it just feels like a regular normal thing that I always have to have on me. It's like an extension of me. And I hate that. And I hate that. You hate when I take your phone.
Starting point is 01:24:24 I hate it. I'm sitting next to you and I just grab it You hate when I take your phone. I hate it. I'm sitting next to you and I just grab it and it's like, oh, it drives me crazy. And I hate that it drives me crazy. But it's like, I feel like I'm cut off from this entire world where all of my people exist if I don't have it. But the thing is, you're pretty normal with social media. I think there's people way worse. But I mean, I sound like a crazy person right now, and I promise I'm not. Yeah. Well, you're out. You're doing stuff. You're playing sports. Yeah. I'm never on- You're out with your friends. Not to compare to others, but compared to others, I'm really not on my phone very often.
Starting point is 01:24:55 But you feel like you're on your phone too much, which is scary. I always have my phone, which is weird. And then it's something like TikTok, where we could take something like the Minions movie that's coming out. And one person says, let's wear suits and dress like the Minions and let's make this a huge thing. Let's mosh pit in theaters. And then in some way, a million people start liking this video and then 7 million people like this video. And then everyone is going to the theater and mosh pitting. And it's just like the influx that this can have. If we turn social media to focus on other things that might need a little bit more attention,
Starting point is 01:25:32 it's just the power. You mean like the election? Yeah, like the election or everything that's been going on recently with Roe v. Wade, all this stuff. Roe v. Wade. Why can't TikTok be used for good with Roe v. Wade for you?
Starting point is 01:25:44 Because I don't know. It should be. But also, there's so much you can do outside of social media to advocate for stuff like that. But showing how powerful TikTok was with something like the minions, there's no way that it couldn't be powerful with other things that actually deserve attention and people to be focused on. So how did your generation process the Roe v. Wade stuff through social media? Because we were talking about you have some friends who are like, won't apply to college anymore in states that don't have it and things like that. This is like a real, you're heading into 12th grade. Yeah. I mean, I get frustrated with these types of situations.
Starting point is 01:26:24 Obviously, as a woman, it's really scary for this all to be going on. But I particularly get frustrated because the most that someone will do will be reposting a story on their Instagram, like an article headline and saying something like, oh, this is devastating or this is horrible. This sucks. Like that would be the most that someone does. Almost like they want other people to know
Starting point is 01:26:46 that they were horrified. Yeah, that they were horrified. And I reposted a few things. So I'm not saying I'm not like falling victim to this, but I wanted to raise awareness because I have a few thousand followers on my profile. And like, if someone doesn't know about this, I want them to know.
Starting point is 01:27:02 But I know the mindsets of certain people can be, I'm just going to post this so that other people don't think that I don't care. And that's as far as an extent as it goes. And then they'll be talking to their friends outside of it and not even really caring or helping or thinking about the actual issue at hand. And people in poverty, you have to deal with this. People who can't access anything now or have no form of transportation who are stuck in states where they can't. Or have to drive like 800 miles if they want to take care of an issue.
Starting point is 01:27:31 And if they don't have a car, like there's all these factors that people just don't think about at all whatsoever. And especially living where we live. Yeah, California. And going to the school that I go to, which is a private school, which I'm very fortunate to go to.
Starting point is 01:27:45 There's a lot of shelteredness going on and people don't really see the real world. And I feel like it's going to be very shocking when everyone goes to college and realizes that these are real issues that actually affect them rather than just being some social media posts they repost.
Starting point is 01:27:59 So what do you think your generation is learning from all the mistakes that have happened in the last six, seven years? Are they learning anything or are they just on happened in the last six, seven years? Are they learning anything or are they just on their phones just looking at Minion stuff? There's only a handful of people that I know that are actually really advocating for this shit.
Starting point is 01:28:17 But it's also, it's hard to involve yourself so heavily in something so traumatic. Like it is- Like you can't vote yet. I can't do shit. It's not like you have any power yet i can't i can't do power i'm 17 like yeah and a lot of my friends are 17 and i feel like we all have a great sense of hopelessness like this is just something that we feel like we can't help meanwhile we can do
Starting point is 01:28:38 certain things but it's like the real people that can make a change here sometimes don't want to make a change or don't care to make a change because it doesn't affect them or so they think. But social media, again, is just such a powerful platform and so much can be done and so much awareness can be raised. And like, it's just, it's not used in the right ways sometimes. And like, we see the power that it has, but we don't use it but people don't want to be lectured either so there's like some middle ground you want to educate but not lecture there is yeah but there is also like sometimes people have fear that others who might not agree with their opinions are going to judge them or are not going to want
Starting point is 01:29:22 to be affiliated with them anymore or like there's just because everyone has versatile opinions depending on where you come from what your family believes like whatever everyone thinks something different not everyone thinks the same thing very obviously um and kind of advocating for what you think can be scary i guess in in i'm just impressed you used the word versatile correctly. In a hypothetical mind, it can be scary because you don't, again, social media is all perception because you don't know who the person is who's actually posting stuff. They post something and your perception's changed. And for someone who's fragile, who doesn't want to lose followers per se, or doesn't want their image to be affected, might not want to post something about something political.
Starting point is 01:30:12 Well, if you were the czar of social media, if you're the president, what would be your two fixes that you would do to try to make it better and safer for people or more productive? Well, in advocating for these types of things, you can, algorithm is a thing. Yeah. Everyone has their own specific algorithm. I'm sure everyone who's listening to this is algorithm. Yours is makeup and food? Yeah, my Instagram algorithm is really makeup, food, soccer.
Starting point is 01:30:38 That's about it. Those are the videos that I'm given, but that's because those are the things that I research. Well, we should mention, you have a real fascination with people getting ready for something. I do. I love it. Which started in the pandemic. It started in the pandemic and I do love it.
Starting point is 01:30:50 It's comforting. I just like watching people get ready and talk while they get ready. Like on my TikTok, that's most of the videos that I see. It's like people getting ready to go do something, which seems so stupid, but that's what I like. So why don't you have your own vlog where you just get ready? I working on it if people would want to see that let me know because i'll do it how would it be any more or less interesting than anybody else's video it's weird because it's it's so much different being on like i've tried to do it a few times and it's it's scary but back
Starting point is 01:31:19 to the the chair of social media yeah i would definitely make the algorithm so that everyone sees the stuff that's advocating for women's rights for um gun violence protection for roe v wade for um discrimination for racism everything that's advocating for some sort of minority group, I guess, or anything that had happened that needs attention, I would make that on everyone's feed first. Instead of people getting kicked in the balls? Yeah. Or getting kicked out of a Minion movie? Because things can get clouded depending on your algorithm, but I'd make sure that that
Starting point is 01:32:03 was front and foremost. Well, what you just laid out will never happen so what would be your next thing um my next move i mean just because like places to donate it's so accessible now too because you can just go on websites and donate to foundations and it's so easy but people are so lazy because social media is so fast now it's like it takes two seconds to do anything on the internet so something that takes like two minutes to do people steer away from so i'd probably there are these stories that instagram can put out that aren't people's stories but they're the instagram story so while you're scrolling through
Starting point is 01:32:39 i just on the instagram story i'd post like five different fundraising links and then you can just press on that. What if they just ban TikTok? I don't, by this point, it's like so far gone. Like I'd be depressed if TikTok was gone. Like that would suck. Yeah, but you could have said the same about like cocaine in the 80s. I don't do cocaine.
Starting point is 01:32:59 But I mean, it's like, but that was a drug. I guess the question is, is TikTok almost like a drug? It is, but it's like, but that was a drug is, I guess the question is, is TikTok almost like a drug? It is, but it's also a lifeline. And it's also, it's people make money off. Like, this is sad, but I know so many influencers that like their prime job is TikTok because they make people make money off of TikTok. Like this is people's jobs. Like they, they leave their jobs to do TikTok.
Starting point is 01:33:26 Once you have a certain amount of followers, you make a certain amount of money every time you post a video. So it's like, and I have friends who just blow up on TikTok randomly. And then all of a sudden have like 150,000 followers. And it's like, what the hell? Like you,
Starting point is 01:33:41 they become like influencers. Just by standing in front of their phone and dancing. Yeah. Or, or making like certain, because you can, TikTok now is a three minute feature and you can make your own videos. It's like an extension of Vine or a shorter version of YouTube. Yeah. So it's like, it's that sweet spot in between, but these are people's jobs.
Starting point is 01:33:57 So I don't think I'd want to eradicate TikTok, but there should be, as sad as it is, there should be more rules and definitely you should be used in better ways. What is your favorite YouTube show right now? Or are you more on TikTok? I'm more on TikTok. I still love my girl, Miss Remy Ashton. She's just like a fabulous Asian YouTuber. She makes a lot of Asian inspired meals. She makes healthy meals, meals that you can make in an air fryer. I love food and she shows me how to make healthy recipes, how to just make any sort of quick on the go food. She shows me all of these new recipes and kind of opens a lifeline in that way for me. And she also gardens and she just does all this health and wellness stuff. And I really look up to her. I think she's a cool lady.
Starting point is 01:34:43 Who's your favorite TikTok person? Relaxes me. See, TikTok's not like that. That's my issue. There's just so many people. It's all different. There's not like a main person that takes it over. I like a few cooking people.
Starting point is 01:34:59 There's no specifics. Your favorite show other than Stranger Things was that Amazon show. What was it called? The Summer I Turned Pretty. Oh, I love The Summer I Turned Pretty. But you know, it was really, it makes me so mad that like these people can never fully get it right. Like The Summer I Turned Pretty, it was perfect. I wouldn't change a single thing. Based on the Jenny Han novel. Yeah. And I wouldn't change a single thing about this show. I thought it was absolutely perfect.
Starting point is 01:35:23 But then again, I also love cheesy stuff. I love stuff that I know is unrealistic. Like I could say the most realistic show that we've been given as teenagers is euphoria. And even then, like, that's crazy to say. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:35:36 It is a very much exaggerated version of a teenage life. In my opinion, someone's teenage life could be exactly like that. I don't know, but like, and, and the summer I turned pretty is, in my opinion, someone's teenage life could be exactly like that. I don't know. I doubt it. And The Summer I Turned Pretty is a very glorified version of a teenage life in a very cringy way. They use teenage slang, like TikTok slang, over the top. It's just so unrealistic. But I love it because I love cheesy stuff like that.
Starting point is 01:36:00 So what's the premise? Girl goes to a beach town and she- No, she always, every year, she goes back to the same beach town to stay with their family friends and she's always been in love with the older brother and there's just like a love triangle and all this stuff happens. She turned pretty this summer, quote unquote, so then she... The brothers are obsessed with her. But they can
Starting point is 01:36:17 never, these TV shows can never find the sweet spot where it's like an actual realistic high school dynamic of teenagers interacting. They just can't figure it out. You know why? Because adults write the show and teenagers are mean to adults. Well, teenagers should have some more power in this way because the most successful show that anyone will ever put out will be a show where the teenagers are actually wearing realistic clothes, actually talking in a realistic way. Like The Summer I Turned Pretty was perfect to me
Starting point is 01:36:45 and absolutely successful, but it could have been even more successful if they let the lead character, Belly, wear actual clothes that someone like me would wear. Why don't they make... You should be like a consultant for these TV shows and movies. Just come on the set and tell them how to dress people.
Starting point is 01:37:03 Because I'm sure Jenny Han doesn't like have any superiority complex or she's too stubborn and she doesn't want to ask a teenager what they'd actually wear. Like this is her image and she wrote the book. So like. You'd have input on teenagers
Starting point is 01:37:15 and also how the dads were dressing. Yeah. That dad's not sloppy enough. No. My dad would never wear jeans after eight o'clock at night. Never. He'd be in his boxers or jogging pants.
Starting point is 01:37:23 And it's just, it's all unrealistic and it's like too perfected and it makes people feel bad when they see such like perfect human beings walking around on tv that's why euphoria is so loved because it's it's so imperfect almost too imperfect but what's what's uh what's her what's her face's name? Who? The star. Rue? Rue. Yeah, Rue. Rue's not perfect. Rue's had some issues. Rue's had a tough run.
Starting point is 01:37:51 Gone through the ringer. Stranger Things. Let's go. If people haven't finished it yet, they can turn off now. Yeah. You and Ben set your alarm for six o'clock on Friday. We did.
Starting point is 01:38:03 You watched the last two Stranger. I naturally woke up at six. You watched both of them and you were both traumatized afterwards. You were upset. I felt funny. I didn't even talk about the first seven episodes on this. Did I? No.
Starting point is 01:38:17 I don't think you did. This season ranks at my second favorite season of Stranger Things. Really? First is the third season. Actually, that's a tough thing to say. The first is the third season. That was my all-time favorite. I think that was also because it was like
Starting point is 01:38:33 such a momentous time in my life where so many things were happening. I was about to go to high school. It was a great summer. And I think that on top of it really hit home for me. And then the first season and the fourth season are tied for my second spot. We did talk about the first seven episodes. I remembered.
Starting point is 01:38:49 We did. So then these last two episodes, I am just going to start out and say I felt overwhelmed and slightly disappointed. I was expecting a different outcome because here's the thing. In the last episode, the seventh episode, they dropped a bomb on us telling us that Vecna was number one, who was the first patient in Papa's entire hospital. He was the first origin of anything that Papa had ever seen.
Starting point is 01:39:18 And he made him into this monster and then took away all of his powers and made him a nurse. Yeah. And this entire premise, they told us that Vecna, which was number one, which was Henry, he was all of the upside down. He was the one that had been tormenting them
Starting point is 01:39:36 through all of the seasons. He's the mind flayer. He is the Demogorgon. He's everything. He's like the mind behind all of the upside down. And Elle was the one who created him because she murdered him right and put him in there and what we found out was papa was trying to find henry again through using l and this was like that was just the entire like explosion at
Starting point is 01:40:01 episode seven which is the craziest thing i've ever seen. I was so emotional. Like it was just absolutely absurd. And I was like, I have no idea where these next two episodes are going to go, but they better be crazy. They make us wait like two months for these next two episodes. They come out. Which was like two movies basically. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:40:18 They're four, four hours in total. And I just, I didn't know where they were going to go from what the information was that they gave us but i was disappointed with what we were given and not that it was bad because they were good episodes but to make us wait two months after the best episode which is episode seven and then going back down it was just like i felt disappointed well but why was ben so upset because eddie died eddie died which was a new character in season four. And he was like the loser, the guy who repeated high school multiple times. He's about to graduate.
Starting point is 01:40:52 Ben or Eddie? Sorry. He had grown on us throughout the season. He'd become a vital part, like Dustin's new best friends. And Steve kind of had in his relationship had kind of grown apart. He was like Dustin's new guy. And we all hold Dustin very close to our hearts. Yeah, I know that. I do. And Eddie got murdered in episode nine by the flying Demogorgon birds.
Starting point is 01:41:19 Is it true that Ben teared up? He did. He cried, actually. He was pretending like he wasn't crying by making fake crying noises but there were tears coming out of his eyes and ben doesn't cry for many things nowadays so i know that it was genuine and a few of my friends were actually quite emotional about eddie's death but i just i couldn't find myself being emotional for him because i didn't feel like personally his character developed enough for me to be upset about it. I wish that they had killed someone like Lucas.
Starting point is 01:41:47 Me too. I don't know who that is. They paralyzed Max's character because she was about to be murdered by the Vecna who basically pretzels people and then rips their eyes out. That's what Ben does the impression of? Yeah. So she was pretzeled, but then Elle stopped him before he could kill her. And she is just in the hospital in a coma now. So it's just like,
Starting point is 01:42:14 those were the two traumatic things that happened, but I feel like something worse had to happen for me to feel emotional. What did they set up for the final season? They basically said that everyone's leaving hawkins because vechna kind of created like this this plus sign in the middle of hawkins and fire and all these houses like went down and the entire town still thinks that eddie the guy who was murdered who actually saved the world basically they get he gave them more time for L to kill Vecna or stop Vecna, per se.
Starting point is 01:42:47 They were saying that he was a satanic guy who was murdering people and he was the mind behind this. And they said that he was probably killed, but he was the murderer behind this. So I'm hoping that they're going to clear that up in the next season. They're going to let us all know
Starting point is 01:43:03 that Eddie was not the satanic murderer. So a dead Eddie will be vindicated. Yeah, he'll be saved. And then Vecna's also not dead. He's hurt, according to Will, but he's not dead. So was this bigger than Minions for
Starting point is 01:43:20 your generation? Honestly, no. Minions, I think, created more action within people because you could go to the movie theater and do shit. Yeah, it's more interactive. And people are talking about it a lot. Stranger Things is also being talked about a lot on the internet. It always has been.
Starting point is 01:43:35 But I think the interactive aspect of Minions is what really sets it over. Do you think they would have been better off if it was once a week? Stranger Things. I do think that it would have created more suspense, but I also like the accessibility of being able to binge through all the episodes in one night as a viewer. You don't have that with Euphoria. No, and Euphoria kept me in a chokehold the entire season.
Starting point is 01:43:57 So I think that they could have made more money maybe and had slight more success in that way if they had released the episodes one once a week but i as a viewer enjoyed being able to watch all of them in one night so you ready to be a senior i think i'm ready i as i said before on this podcast i think i am a true senior i think that i embody what it is to be a senior, like mentally at least and physically. I don't know. I feel like I am a senior. But it's definitely weird
Starting point is 01:44:31 because when I was in middle school, I'd look up to 17-year-olds and those were like the oldest people in the world to me. And now I am that person. You know what's weird for me? Now you're the age of the people in all these different shows and movies that I've watched.
Starting point is 01:44:46 Yeah. Like even like Ben made us watch can't buy me love and just one of the guys over the weekend. And they're all like seniors in high school, but now you're going to be a senior. It's a little strange. It's definitely, it's hyped up too.
Starting point is 01:44:58 So I hope, I'm hoping it's going to be a good year. Junior year was good. It was really hard, but it was, it was good. So don't get arrested. Stay out of trouble.
Starting point is 01:45:05 Definitely won't take it easy. We'll see. Stay focused good. Don't get arrested. Stay out of trouble. Definitely won't. Take it easy. We'll see. Stay focused on the right things. Good luck to all of us seniors. Don't be on TikTok too much. We'll see about that. Don't stay out too late. Don't do the thing where you tell us you're going to be home at one time and then you're home an hour later. We never really fall asleep when you don't come home. You realize that part.
Starting point is 01:45:21 I just don't understand that because I'm so trustworthy. I'm not going to die or anything. I'm always with one of my friends and I'm being safe. It's still weird to fall asleep when you're not in the house even if it's like 1230. I get that, but I'm also always safe and I'm always responsible.
Starting point is 01:45:37 I used to have to wipe your ass because you used to shit on yourself. Just so you know. I'm aware, but now I'm not shitting on myself. You used to shit in a diaper and we used to clean it up. So now you're out until three in the morning. It's a little, it's hard to get used to. I might say, well, at least you have one kid who's still shitting on themselves. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:45:58 That's what we want, one for two. All right. Zoe Simmons, thanks for telling us about teen culture in July. We'll see you at the end of the summer. Bye. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Raheem. Thanks to Tyler and Chris.
Starting point is 01:46:14 Thanks to Zoe Simmons. Thanks to Cochrane for producing. Thanks to Dylan Berkey and Steve Cerruti as well. I'll see you on Thursday.

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