The Bill Simmons Podcast - Best Westbrook Trades, Vegas Complaints, Kawhi Applause, Bank Heist Movies, and 'Euphoria' With Joe House and Shea Serrano | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: July 9, 2019

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Joe House to talk about Russell Westbrook trade rumors, his current value, best fits, and more (4:50). Then Bill and House connect with Shea Serrano to discuss the mastermind Kawhi Leonard, how his decision affected other teams, the the 2019-20 Western Conference, 'Hobbs & Shaw,' heist movies, and more (47:50). Finally Bill and House discuss their recent trip to Vegas for NBA summer league, casino gripes, Death Valley, and [SPOILERS] HBO's most shocking show to date: 'Euphoria' (1:24:40). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by zip recruiter. The best teams start with great talent. Unfortunately, one of those teams is not Oklahoma city right now. We're going to be talking about respite trades in a second. Teams built through the draft smart trades. Looks like Oklahoma city is going to be able to do both of those things. Well, no one knows the importance of talent more than zip recruiter. They deliver qualified candidates fast,

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We're also brought to you by theringer.com, the world's greatest website. Well, right now, you can tell it's July because we're doing something that is super, super stupid and also delightful. It is the annoying kids bracket for TV. Basically, it's the AJ Soprano coronation bracket. I saw this. I can't wait to see how it plays out. Dana from Homeland's involved. Kim from 24. It's all your favorites are in there. We're going to decide once and for all who's the most annoying one of all of them. Again, you can tell that it's July

and there's not a lot going on right now, but this is when the ringer is the ringer. This is when we thrive. Speaking of thriving, Joe House is here and we're going to do Westbrook Trades. We're going to talk about Euphoria. We're going to talk about why we're turning on Las Vegas.

Shea Serrano is coming a little bit later. And we're going to be talking. This podcast is going in a whole bunch of directions. And then a very dark one at the tail end. I don't want to give too much away. But that's all coming up first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, so we had a feeling this was coming. There's reports breaking early evening East Coast time.

Who else? Agent Will Jernowski reporting that Russell Westbrook welcomes the idea of a trade that would bring his OKC tenure to an end. We are going to talk to Joe House about all these Westbrook trades in a second. It's something we taped a couple hours earlier than this report because we knew this was coming.

It was no secret. Once his name was floated in the Toronto thing and I got some feedback that he's ready. So Wojnarowski says he wants to play for a team pursuing contention. And that's a slim pickings for teams that actually have a chance to trade for him

as we're about to discuss. But that is happening. This is in motion. So we did not have that knowledge when we started taping this podcast, but we had the knowledge of everything else. Also wanted to give a shout out to Coco. I really enjoyed her,

watching her in the Wimbledon. And shout out to the Women's National Team. Just so much fun to watch them. I loved Rapinoe. I loved being ice on penalty kicks. Rose Lavelle, breakout performance. And it was fun watching her put it together as the tournament went along.

And then you could just see her blossoming, not as a star, but as the engine of that team. And then all culminating in one of the better goals, a messy goal to put the World Cup away. But I really enjoyed the Women's World Cup. Here's the thing. Why can't it be every two years? What the hell are we doing?

It's not like, at least on the men's side, there are all these reasons and the Premier League and it's so hard and the players and everybody's playing these crazy schedules. And on the women's side, it just seems like we could figure out how to do this World Cup thing every two years and everybody's happy.

I don't know what they're doing. Also, give them more money. You know who should have stepped up? Nike. So they made like, I think, 250,000 to win the World Cup per player. And then the men, it's like four times as much. Nike, just make up the difference.

The PR will be worth it. Go ahead, give them the 20 million. Do it right now. All right. We're going to bring you Joe House. All right. We're taping this on Monday here in Southern California. Joe House is here. We're in Vegas over the weekend at Caesar's Palace. We're going to talk about Vegas later. We're also going to talk about Euphoria later because I have some thoughts on that show and a couple other pop culture things coming up after this segment shay serrano is going to come on and talk about kawhi leonard being the master manipulator and uh and some westbrook stuff too but we want to do some westbrook stuff right now russell westbrook is going to get traded and i think it's actually going to happen before the season starts and i think think he wants it to happen. The one thing I have not figured out is, was OKC, OKC was using Toronto's leverage,

as we know, to try to drive the price up for the Clippers and to make the Clippers think they had to pay 200 cents of the dollar to get Paul George. In the process of that, they put Westbrook on the table for Toronto. They offered Westbrook and Paul George together for Siakam, some expirings, and they wanted foreign protected picks. This is what's been reported. They could obviously get a lot more from the Clippers. But that was the first time Westbrook's been on the table. Now they get rid of Paul George.

There's no reason to keep Westbrook, as we talked about on Saturday's podcast. He's going to get traded. And this is the right time to trade him. The question is, who trades for him? And I went around the league, tried to identify some teams. And Joe House, we're going to talk about it. I'm going to bounce these off you. I'm very excited.

I think the interesting thing in your setting this up, you talked about Oklahoma City offering Westbrook to Toronto. My perception, my impression was that it was more of an insistence. Like, if you want Paul George, the price is Russell Westbrook. Because I think all things considered Oklahoma city's preference would have been to get everything done all at once and not have to go through this two step exercise. Uh, but it's clear that they cannot live with Russell Westbrook's contracted. I think the funny thing is they would love to continue to live with Russell Westbrook. He is the face of the franchise, you know, more than any other player since they moved to Oklahoma

City from Seattle. And he's the guy who stayed. And he's the guy who deliberately stayed. They made a big point about him staying. They propped his ass up to average a triple-double for an entire season. I mean, he did a historical thing for them. They were all complicit in it. That was a franchise-level decision. And here we are in this moment. Kawhi picks up the phone and says, yo, PG, I need you.

And bam, the Oklahoma City era is over. Except here's the thing that's interesting to me. I give Presti credit. He knew that the ceiling for that team as currently configured is what he experienced, which is first round playoff exits. It was the Oklahoma City first round exits. That's it.

That's the name of that team. So the problem for them is Westbrook makes 38.5 this year, 41.35 the next year, 44.2 the year after that, and then a player option at 47. And I think they've established what the ceiling is for them with this team. Now they're in a transition. They traded Jeremy Grant today to Denver for a 2021st rounder that saved them reportedly about $39 million in luxury tax. There's still $2 million over the luxury tax. They have to get under it.

There's other ways to do that. They had got so many picks in the Clippers trade. They can get somebody to take Andre Roberson for a year and throw them a pick. But it seems like it would make more sense for them to reset this whole thing and really try to not only reset it for themselves, but take advantage of somebody while he still has value. I've gotten so many conflicting reports on what people think Westbrook's value is. I've had a couple of people tell me they think it's the second worst contract in the league. Like even worse than Chris Paul's contract because you have four more years of it. You can't talk about worst contracts in the league and not talk about John Wall.

I said second worst contract. Oh, you said Chris Paul though. No, I mean, I'm saying- Wall is the undisputed one. No, Wall is one. Wall is the goat of bad contracts right now. The goat of bad contracts is the John Wall contract. Two is either Chris Paul or Wessel Westbrook. That's what... I mean, Paul's is worse.

Well, no, but Paul's is shorter. Okay. Westbrook is four years. You're looking at like $185 million or something next four years for Westbrook. And I was just looking at his stats. He's played 821 regular season games, and he's played 98 playoff games.

So he's approaching the 1,000-game mark, potentially even this season. And those are hard minutes. It's a lot like... I have stuff written about Dwayne Wade in my archives from the 2000s about wondering what his longevity was going to be as a superstar. When the kind of hits he took, and they even did the Nike commercial about, what was it, fall, fall eight times, get up nine times or whatever.

And Westbrook is the same way. And Westbrook's had, every year he has to get his knee cleaned and stuff like that. He's had some, I wouldn't say he's 100%. I wouldn't say he's 90%. He's probably 88% of where he was physically three, four years ago. And OKC has had a chance to look under the hood with him for years now. And if they were anxious to move from him, I would think that would be one of the reasons, right? Well, I mean, are they anxious? It feels like the circumstances make them anxious. It doesn't feel like they would be anxious

because of concerns about his diminishing health. He still has a chance to reinvent himself as a player. He wants to take the three-pointer. He's just terrible at it. And as long as he's still a threat to go to the hole, the way that he has, the way he's demonstrated, that's a real risk. Defenders have to play him that way.

If he could get better at the three-pointer, it's a different kind of player altogether. And that feels like a skill that is still a, a developable, right? It's weird. He's, he's, I agree with you.

I don't think he'll ever be a better three point shooter than he is now. I just think he's, that means he's going to be terrible. Cause I just think he's a three point shooter. I think he's, but he's killed us gambling wise. He only needs to make one for us to lose our bets. That's easy.

But, um, let me ask you this. This is the way the decision tree feels like to me. In the first place, what's your view on whether or not he's going to have a say in where he's going to go? Is Oklahoma City going to make this a collaborative effort where they listen to Russell's input? I think they could give a shit. Okay. And if he ends up on a team that he wants to go to, great. I do think they are listening to him.

The other thing that's corollary to that is, does it matter to Oklahoma City if he stays in the West? Do you think they care? I don't think smart teams care about that. Okay. I think Popovich, that whole stuff about there's no way they're trading with the Lakers, that the Lakers had offered what they offered the Pelicans a few weeks ago.

The Spurs are doing that deal. I'm sorry. And so the question for me, there's two different questions here. What's the best trade for him? But the first question is, could we still salvage this thing with Westbrook? Because what's getting lost in this look I'm probably on the side of not a Westbrook fan and you know even like when I back when I still wrote in 2017 I was like I just can't vote for this guy for MVP I don't care I don't I don't stand by this whole you know stat chasing stuff and a whole team construct around him getting triple doubles just isn't my cup of tea. Man, you look at this decade now that's done. He was

all NBA second team in 2011, 12, 13, and 15. He was first team in 16 and 17. He was second team in 2018. He was third team last year. I thought he should have been second. Kyrie Irving got second team over him, which I think is ridiculous.

Oh my gosh. I was also there for the whole Kyrie Irving season, but for him to be rewarded as a top 10 guy for the season Kyrie gave, Westbrook was bad for him for the first two months, but I actually thought he was pretty good, especially after the All-Star break. He's still

one of those guys. He matters. And my first question is, do you keep him? Do you try to... You stumbled into this situation where you just got 200 cents on the dollar for Paul George. You got the most incredible haul anybody's ever gotten for a superstar. You got all these picks and assets. Oh, hit pause. Did they? Is it 200 cents? Where do you think those picks are going to be? Well, here's my question. You have Bradley Beal, right?

Yes. The thing is, we're not trading Bradley Beal unless you, unless John Wall's involved. That's the right thing to say. We're not discussing him. We want to build around him.

That makes sense. They should say that. If OKC went to Washington right now and said, we'll give you 75% of what we just got for Paul George for Bradley Beal. 100%, I would take that right away. Would you take 50%? No.

It's got to be 75% or higher. Would you take Shea Gilgis? Let's say Andre Roberson's expiring and Patrick Patterson's expiring to add up to the Beal numbers and then I'll give you four of the picks I just got.

Yes. Absolutely. 100%. So why would an OKC do that? They might. They might, right? Or maybe there's a way to do, I'm trying to think, but maybe they could get under the luxury tax and bring Beal back.

I guess the fear would be Beal wouldn't want to resign there in two years. The other thing, though, is how does that help OKC? What's the ceiling of Beal in Westbrook if PG-13? I'm just giving, I'm giving them... I'm trying to figure out how can I still compete with Russell Westbrook? I have all these assets. Who can I go get to try to still be

a potential championship contender? Now, I don't think if you got Bradley Beal, you're basically flipping Bradley Beal for Paul George. You're another first-round exit. Right, exactly. Is there anybody out there they could get? I went through all the teams, and it's like, you go through the top 20 players in the league.

I just think all of them are taken. The merry-go-round went around and went around, and it stopped, and there's nobody for them to get. Well, the problem they have is they can only do two guys. It's Westbrook plus one other superstar. They can't do a third as currently constructed. Steven Adams is the block to that. So you look at, let's go top 20 guys in the league.

Kawhi Taken, Giannis, Harden, Curry, Anthony Davis, Jokic, LeBron. All those guys are off the table. I would say they're off the table. Embiid, Paul George, Durant. those guys are off the table. I would say they're off the table. Embiid, Paul George, Durant. Those guys are off the table. Off the table.

Dame Lillard, Beal, Towns, Oladipo, Kyrie, Kemba, Butler. Beal and Towns may be gettable.

Beal and Towns and Westbrook together, that team? No, I'm saying one of those. One or the other. Yeah, it's not enough. It's not enough. It doesn't do it.

Maybe Towns. Would you offer everything they just got for Paul George for Carl Anthony Towns? Hmm. And if you're Minnesota, would you do it? If I'm Minnesota, I would definitely do it. Absolutely. You would do it.

You would flip Towns. Like, there's just too much. He's under, he's got to have him for like four more years. But the problem is, when is it going to click for him? He just takes too many stretches off. Well, he was good the last half of the season. Where was he? But it was like, there was meaningless games.

They missed the playoffs. Yeah. Like, you can't have a guy of his stature who he's supposed to be at the contract that he's receiving and miss the effing playoffs. It's fair. He's in... I always called it...

There's levels, right? Superstar, all-star, star. Superstar, you're making the playoffs if that guy's on your team. And I think Westbrook qualifies. They made the playoffs with him in 2017. He was the only really

good to great player they had. Totally agree. Alright. Draymond, Gobert, Clay, whatever. And then you go into the Donchage, Zion, Mitchell group. My point is,

unless it's Beal or Towns, and I'm with you, I think Beal is a good building block for them, but they would still then have to get a third piece. I don't think they're thinking that way. I actually think they've stumbled into a great situation. They had just a ceiling on where they were going, and that ceiling was the first round,

maybe second round with an upset, and now they get a rebuild around more picks than really anybody's ever had. It's rebuild rather than retool. That's what we're talking about. They could retool with Russell and try. What the Clippers did is incredible. The Clippers model

now, I still don't know who I would say is like their best player. Who is the best player? I mean, it's Lou Williams because of how his ability to score and their incredible fourth quarter. You're talking about regular season?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like who's the best player? Well, Kawhi is. No, no, no. Last year's Clippers. Oh, yeah, yeah. That incredible, they retooled. They moved Lob City.

They retooled on the fly. They had an assembly of a team said, I'm sure you and I both took the under on the Clippers forecasted win total for the 2018-19 season. And they beat the pants off of everybody's expectations. So that's like the retool model. But you have to just be lucky,

crazy lucky with who you have assembled and who the coach is for that retool approach to work. Gallinari was probably the second best player in the Clippers last year. He was good last year. He sucked in the playoffs. He was so healthy. He sucked in the playoffs in a contract year this year. But he has a 20-point score. Right.

This is kind of the underrated thing with this Thunder team. If you actually look at their roster, it's not like a wizard situation. They have Westbrook, who I still think is the top 12 guy.

They have Gallinari in a contract year. They have Shea Gildress-Alexander, who I think is really good. They have Roberson coming back.

They have Steven Adams, who until the last kind of six weeks of the season in the playoffs, I felt like was playing as well as he's ever played. So you're making the case for a retool rather than a rebuild. I'm just wondering if they could get Beal, what does that team look like?

A first round playoff exit. It's the West. The problem is the West. The West is sick now. Because you would have Shea, you'd have Westbrook, you'd have Gallinari, you'd have Beal,

and you have Steven Adams. It's a pretty good starting five. Is that, are they better than the Warriors? Well, the Warriors with, with Klay Thompson in a, in a cast.

Yeah. No, but, but you know, come playoff time, like who your top, what are the seeds going to look like, right? I would think long and hard both ways.

I personally would trade him because of the 900 games staying in the contract. And I think there's some desperate teams, which we're about to get to. It does feel like his maximum value is now. Right. His value is not going to be higher than now. Right. So Miami is the team that we talked about on Saturday's pod that's

gotten a lot of traction in the last three days. It's the type of move they make. They already have Jimmy Butler there. There's something about Westbrook and Butler together. And Riley. The whole culture there, it just fits in. Him going from OKC to South Beach would be cool.

Great organization. him going from OKC to South Beach would be cool they great organization good training staff it seems like it seems like it just kind of makes sense he's another star I could see that one and I was trying to I did on Twitter

I was trying to figure out the perfect trade because here's the problem with Miami, they're a hard cap team. What that means is they can't make any trade where they're taking even $1 back more than what they're giving out. So it has to be less. And if you're OKC,

part of why you would trade Westbrook is because you're trying to dump money. The grant trade, they're like 2 million over the luxury tax right now. So it wouldn't have to be that much. But Miami doesn't make sense because that doesn't accomplish their objective of getting under the tax unless they made a separate trade. So my idea was if they involve Dallas, Dallas has $23 million in cap space. They also have a giant trade exception for Harrison Barnes. They could fit Goran Dragic's

expiring contract at $19 million into that trade exception. He is somebody that was Luka Doncic's mentor on the Slovenian teams. They actually need a point guard too, ironically. And if you use Dallas

as the gatekeeper for this trade, then OKC could end up with Justice Winslow, Courtney Lee, who's expiring, Kelly Olenek and Myers Leonard, who each have two years left, $23 million combined. Miami would end up with Westbrook and Steven Adams. And OKC would save $15-16 million and be able to start over and have a lot more flexibility. So why is Dallas enticed to say yes this time to Dragic? Because they said no to him in terms of accommodating the acquisition of Butler.

That's the problem with this trade. Why is Dallas now saying yes? What are they getting out of it? I personally don't understand why Dallas wouldn't want Dragic. I didn't understand that the last time. Because my goal for them would be, I just want to make Luka happy at all times. I would want him to have a big brother on that team,

and they actually need a point guard. I liked what they did signing DeLon Wright, but they still need an actual point guard. Is it a gimmick if you have Zinger and Dragic and Doncic all together? A gimmick in what way? They're not winning the title. All right. So the identity of that team is...

So you're down. So, all right, we'll get rid of Dallas then. So Oklahoma City and Miami, they make a trade, and OKC then has to figure out how to get rid of Roberson or Patrick Patterson to get under the tax after that. Because there's really easy trades for them to make. It could just, Westbrook makes 38.5, Winslow, Courtney Lee, Myers Leonard, however you three guys is going to add up to the 39 and they can make the trade and then dump somebody. And for Oklahoma City, that would be just about the dollars.

All I care about is being rid of that contract. The asset to them is being out from under that contract. Well, the other problem is Miami doesn't have any picks to trade. But OKC owns Miami's 2023 lottery protected pick. And what they could do in that trade is waive their protections. That's valuable. So it's like now that is that trade is waive their protections. That's valuable. So it's like now that is now an unprotected 2023 pick. That's valuable.

So that's a possibility. A couple other teams. Okay. Let's take a break, talk about Luminary, a new podcast subscription service with some of the best content around. We're excited about it because it's the only place you can listen to our new show

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for two months of free access. Cancel anytime. Terms do apply. We haven't talked about this. I've been holding it out. The Detroit Pistons. Oh. They're already all the way the fuck in on Blake Griffin

ATWFI all in all in they have Drummond's contract but I think if you it could be Drummond and you know you could get ambitious but I actually think you'd probably want to keep Drummond if you're doing

Russ Westbrook. What they do have is Reggie Jackson's expiring. 18.1 million. How funny would that be? Tony Snell. They kick Reggie Jackson's ass to the curb and then they took back his expiring contract. It's a double FU. They have Reggie Jackson's ass to the curb, and then they took back his expiring contract.

Then they take it back. It's a double FU. They have Langston Galloway, who's an expiring at 7.3. So now we're up to 25.3. And then Tony Snell is at 11.5, but has a poor option for next year. So you do those three, throw in Patrick Patterson on OKC's side so they can save more money.

And then Detroit gives them a pick. And Detroit goes, we have Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond, Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook, the lineage to the bad boy Pistons and the kind of tough Piston from Lambert and Isaiah. And then last decade, and now we have this new tough Pistons team. It's conceivable. In the very first place at the 25,000-foot level, I'm rooting for Russell Westbrook to be in the East because the East is open. There are opportunities available in the East. The West is going to be a climb,

like getting over the Clippers and the Lakers. For anybody, I mean, in Houston, you know, we just had, we were in Daryl Morey's company Saturday night, and he said out in public, I like my team. He did. I'm bringing it back. This is, you know, we like our chances. We like the way we-

He's probably going to trade for Westbrook tomorrow. That would be great. Darrell did say during that podcast or during the live show, he made the point, which I think is a really important point. And we've talked about this on the pod before. It's a 30 team league. And

there's like 25 guys that matter, unfortunately. And you have some young guys and stuff, but ultimately year to year, there's like 20 to 25, like really, really good to great players. And anytime you have a young guys and stuff, but ultimately year to year, there's like 20 to 25 really, really good to great players. And anytime you have a chance to get one, you should try to get one. So if you're Detroit, they did that Blake Griffin trade, which really was able to remake the Clippers and allow them to get Kawhi. But Detroit would have never had a chance at Kawhi. Capspace does nothing for them.

It ends up leads to John Lauer, people like that. John Lauer, Lauer, John Lauer, leads to John Lauer, people like that. Right. John Lauer, Lauer, John Lauer, Lauer, Lauer, John Lauer.

Not Matt Lauer. Not Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer is not somebody you want in your cap space. But, you're better off if you're a team like Detroit trading for a star that you wouldn't be able to sign

if you had cap space, which is Russell Westbrook. Absolutely. A hundred percent. I think that makes a ton of sense for Detroit. One other wrinkle with that. Those guys that, you know, the basketball players are all generational. And that generation was like, you know, 07, 08, 09, KD, Michael Beasley, Blake Griffin,

Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love. Like all those guys have basically grown up together. And I'm sure Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook have known each. All those guys have basically grown up together. And I'm sure Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook have known each other forever. Yeah. That'd be fun. Those two guys on the same team would be fun. Right now, OKC is not fun.

There's nothing fun about Westbrook and OKC anymore. Isn't fun? Detroit. Right. It's not any fun to watch that team. No. So that would be fun. I don't think they would win the title,

but at least the thing with Detroit is they're all in anyway with this team. Yes. They're paying 65, 66 million for Blake Griffin and Andrew Drummond. Now you could take this deal and put Drummond in it too and get Stephen Adams back would be another way to do it. Another team. We mentioned Carl Anthony towns before.

What if Westbrook went to Minnesota? So they have Jeff Teague's $19 million expiring. And then it gets a little more complicated. I think Robert Covington would basically have to be involved in this trade. I don't think OKC would go anywhere near Andrew Wiggins. Yeah, they don't want to be the project to salvage Wiggins' career, right? They don't want to have anything to do with that. Somebody is going to take that risk.

I mean, Charlotte seems like the best contender, the leading contender for that. Well, what if Minnesota said, we'll do Wiggins and Teague right now for Westbrook and Andre Rose? That doesn't help Oklahoma City. The whole point of Oklahoma City trading Westbrook is- That doesn't help Oklahoma City. The whole point of Oklahoma City trading Westbrook- No, but I'm saying they would be able to cut tax,

but they would basically be like Wiggins and Teague for Westbrook and contracts that get you under the tax. I would not do that if I was OKC. No, no, absolutely not. Wiggins legitimately frightens me. Yeah. You know how I feel about guys that if I'm at a basketball game

and I don't notice them for two quarters, I'm out. Right. It's like, oh, you were out there. I didn't realize. It's my concern with Towns. He disappears sometimes too. He does. And this is why I asked you a little earlier about Westbrook having a say in it. I think that Russell Westbrook

watched Jimmy Butler in Minnesota. I think all great players watched what happened in Minnesota with Jimmy Butler and Minnesota. I think all great players watched what happened in Minnesota with Jimmy Butler. And, you know, all these guys talk. They ask, hey, Jimmy, how would you think about Towns and Wiggins? What answer do you think

Jimmy Butler gives them about playing with those guys? Would you really trust Jimmy Butler for any input on anything, though? Well, I mean, he's had a problem. Every team he's been on, he's left unhappy and bitter at people. I don't know that that a problem. Every team he's been on, he's left unhappy and bitter at people.

I don't know that that's true. Who was he unhappy with at the Sixers? He didn't leave because he was unhappy. Okay. He left for the Triple P. He left because

he didn't believe in those guys. It was part of why he left. Well, he didn't think those guys were serious enough about winning titles. I think one guy,

I honestly believe that he and Embiid, he looked at the situation and he's like, they have to solve a Ben Simmons problem. What's their appetite for doing? Well, he's also worried about Embiid's appetite. Maybe. The fact that he's playing with an extra 35 pounds for reasons that remain unclear. So Minnesota, I thought thought was a fun one because they have towns anyway. He's a year away from his pre-agency where he starts going,

it's time for me to find a new team. I don't like it here anymore. Can he play hard for one year? Is that too much to ask? I'm telling you, he was good the last couple of months of the season. I asked for a year, not just a couple months. For a year. All right. I'll ask him. He might come on the podcast this summer.

I'll ask him. Joe House wants to know if you can play hard for a whole year. What I didn't like is he was in such a funk the start of last season. Right. But is clearly one of the nine or 10 most talented guys in the league. I agree with this. I believe in him, though. I think he's going to tap into it.

I've come around on towns. Well, how about this? This is the thing. You had the opportunity to sit with the commissioner of the NBA, and he mentioned as one of the top sort of concerns from the players is their overall kind of unhappiness. Yeah. Well, is Carl Anthony a guy that can go through some kind of exercise to get himself happy.

To be happy with the team he's on. His life situation. What's going to make him feel better about himself? Russell Westbrook? Maybe. I just want to say. He doesn't respond well to being yelled at because Jimmy Butler tried that. That seemed to me

a big brother, little brother thing though. Okay. You got a 30 year old man who's led a whole life and who's very alpha E versus like somebody who's still a kid

who's being asked to be a franchise dude who's not ready for it yet. You lived through it in Washington with Chris Weber. Yeah. He was the franchise.

He was like 23. I mean, there were a lot of reasons that went wrong, but it's tough when you put that on somebody when they're pretty- If they're not ready. Relatively young.

I know I wouldn't have been ready at age 24. So I like the idea of Minnesota with him. San Antonio is another one where if it's basically just a DeRozan-Westbrook flip- Let's ask Shea about that. Yeah, we'll ask Shea about that coming up. But that would save, there's ways for that to work.

We're okay to see, could save 9 million. Now it's Shea Gilgis, DeRozan, Gallinari, Stephen Adams. You're under the tax. You can kind of reboot. And you have all these draft picks coming. I think that would be my preference if I was them. Because I don't know if I'd want to bottom out if I were them. Because I don't think they have to. I still like some of their players. You're into that. I like that would be my preference if I was them. Because I don't know if I'd want to bottom out if I were them. Because I don't think they have to.

I still like some of their plays. You're into that. I like that retool. Out of all the retools we've talked about so far, that one's my favorite. Orlando seems like they're out because inexplicably they bought out Mozgov's contract last weekend. Fucking dumbasses. Why did they do that? I don't know.

To save money, I guess. Maybe they wanted to... Who knows? I'm just not buying out expiring contracts when these guys are moving around constantly. It's the currency. Expiring contract is the currency.

Then the other one would be... I guess we have to just talk about the Wizards if there's some sort of... No, no, no. There's no scenario in which that makes sense. No scenario at all? No, no, no. No, it's not feasible

because you can't swap Wall for Westbrook. I thought the team... I mean, I'm dismissing the Wizards. So in the conversation, I thought the team you were going to say when you said, I guess we have to talk about was... The Knicks.

The Knicks, of course. It couldn't happen to December, and I don't think... From what I've heard, they want no part of them. Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense. That would be another smart Knicks moment. If you and I were GMs of a team, I would

run from Russell Westbrook. I would not even listen. That's interesting. I would fight even listen. That's interesting. I would fight with you. We are the GMs on the same team. Like you're the lead and I'm your assistant. No, I'm saying if I had a chance to win the title. Yeah.

No, no. Let's say we're co-GMs. Okay. I just, to me, it's not worth the risk with where he is injury wise. Who's our coach? How many games he's played. Well, I'm just saying in a vacuum,

I would be like, eh, no thanks. But if I'm a team like Detroit or Minnesota where I'm just basically trapped in a padded room with no way out and no chance at anything,

and now I have this guy who's a top 12 guy in the league still and a chance to add him to somebody else who's really anything. And now I have this guy who's a top 12 guy in the league still, and a chance to add him to somebody else who's really good. And this is like a rare opportunity to get somebody like him. I would have to think about it because what are my other options? It's a terrific injection, like a breath of fresh air. Think about your season ticket holders.

Think about putting some asses in seats. It changes the dynamic. It makes any situation like Detroit or Minnesota, it's funny that we've taken these, you know, northern Great Lakes kind of things, right? Oh, shit, it's cold already. And we want to inject some new life, breathe some fresh air into those situations.

He would undoubtedly help both of those situations. And then San Antonio, Miami, the only reason I think those make sense is just because could those cities and fan bases and organizations and everything that's going on there and a change of scenery thing invigorate him in some way? Miami, yes, undoubtedly. I feel like both of those situations would. Unbelievable, yes. Those are the tight, it's always good to bet on talent. I would just be, I'd be so scared of that contract

because if this doesn't work out, you're getting fired. We didn't mention one more team, it's Houston. Houston has two possibilities. It could be, they could basically just say, Eric Gordon, Clint Capella, and enough contracts to make this work. Let's go. And then basically have Chris Paul, James Harden,

Russell Westbrook, and just figure it out. I personally think that's insane. I can't imagine those three guys playing together. It seems like a recipe of an all-time disaster. I know Daryl has the theory of put three good guys together and figure it out later, but those three guys together

make no sense to me. Three of the highest usage rate guys we've had in the last 25 years all trying to figure out how to play together. And two of them are horrendous when they don't have the ball. This is Harden and Westbrook.

Just awful. Probably the two worst I don't have the ball guys in the league. They're basically like, oh, I'm not in this play. I'll be over here. You can't have D'Antoni be the coach if you acquire Russell Westbrook. It doesn't feel like.

What if it was Chris Paul and Clint Capella for Russell Westbrook and Steven Adams? That's pretty interesting. Why would OKC do that? Chris Paul's contract's a year shorter. He makes less money each year than Westbrook. He's played in OKC before because when they had Hurricane Katrina,

they had to play there for a year, so they like him there. Might be an easier contract to move a year from now than Westbrook's is. He's somebody that you could argue could make a team like they have, could improve some of the guys in that team. Mentor for Shea, Joe just Alexander. I don't know.

I'm just, I'm babbling. It's one of those rare, probably a bad trade for both teams, but I had to mention it. Okay. I mean, Capella feels like... How did Capella go from being one of the top five rim-running big men? Because he was bad in the playoffs. Yeah.

I'll tell you this. He would be on my team. I understand. I would have traded for him already. I don't feel like... You've soured on Capella. I'll take him. I feel that way right now.

This is the thing. They couldn't play him against the Warriors, essentially. Yeah, the Warriors have a tendency to screw up. Now it's over, but these last few years, they had a tendency to really make people sour on their rosters, which was kind of unfair because the Warriors are one of the top four teams we've ever had. And it's like, yeah, some rosters aren't

going to work that well. Just because Clint Campello can't play against one of the four greatest teams of all time doesn't mean he's not good at basketball. It feels... I think he's got a redemption season coming. I felt like Darryl...

We could definitely see the wear and tear from the last month of Darryl. He was the feistiest I've ever seen him. It was terrific. He's so mad about how some of the fake news stories that have come out, he claims are fake news. I believe him, maybe. He was adamant. And he was just feisty.

He's just mad. Listen, I think if you play that season, we bet on the Rockets we lost. I think if you play that season 10 times, they win the title a couple times. And somehow in that Warriors series, they just got screwed up by that first game. And by not getting a couple of those calls,

then there was a layoff. They started bitching about it. And it became like this tornado of just them bitching about stuff. It's like, just worry about your own fucking team guys. He, he, uh,

conceded this. We asked him. Yeah. The real, uh, thing that sabotaged the season for them was how poorly they began it. And what, how they ended up in the position of having to play

the Warriors in the second round. And it all came down. They still had a chance to salvage it and get the two seed. And I said, when we did the live show, a great, what if is what if OKC doesn't win that game against them that dropped them from two to four? Cause then Golden State doesn't have to play them around too. Maybe Durant doesn't get hurt. All these dominoes go differently. I thought that Rockets team was really good. They were really good. They were the best team in the NBA for two months. Those games were, especially game one and game two,

they didn't play well in those games and almost won both games. So I'm with him. I think the rest of the league weirdly got better and worse. The ceiling of the league went down, but the more teams are at the ceiling and they're kind of the same team. Well, the fascinating thing with them is he configured a team that he publicly acknowledged

was designed to beat the Warriors and he does not have to beat the Warriors anymore. The Warriors are not in front of him. How about this team that he's assembled and how it's configured? Are they built to beat the Lakers and the Clippers? The Lakers, I think, are less challenging for their design than the Clippers.

I think they're going to have trouble with the Clippers this year. Well, I can't wait to see where Westbrook goes because this is already going to be one of the most fun seasons ever. What's not going to be fun is Westbrook on this OKC team, but him going to Miami or him on the Pistons.

There's all kinds of ways it could go. I do think I'd be very careful with guards with a lot of miles on them, thinking that that's just going to keep going and going because history says, unless it's a Kobe Bryant situation, around the 900 to 1,000 game mark, you start veering into a different point in your career. Now, he is also one of the greatest athletes in the history of the league, I think.

Would you agree with that? Oh, my God, yes. Top 10 athlete we've ever had in the NBA? You know what's funny to me is, even though Toronto said no to the Paul George trade. Would you say no now? I don't know. I'm interested.

If OKC was just like, we'll take Lowry for Westbrook right now. Yeah, like here's the thing. Those guys do deals, right? We Oklahoma City, Masai and Sam are boys. They're pals. They keep doing these little exchanges.

They've been doing them over the years. So that might've even been bullshit. Maybe so. Where Sam's like, I need a favor, man. I'm trying to pillage the Clippers right now. Can you just pretend you're interested in Westbrook and George for five minutes? But there's nothing to keep Toronto from taking Westbrook now. If it's the case that Sam really does want to get rid of that,

if the franchise concept is to move out all that salary, be out from under that contract. What are they going to do with all the cap space? Who? Toronto. They have $91 million in expiring guys and basically next year's team is Pascal Siakam and

a bunch of randos. Yeah. Okay. They got room. Room for what? Russell Westbrook. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, if,

this is probably the most interesting one we've come up with. How about that? Just Westbrook for Lowry. Yeah. That's it. Okay. See, it's under the tax. Get out of Westbrook's contract.

Where does that put Toronto in terms of you know are they still a top they're still top four team in the East top three team in the East you have Westbrook Siakam

Ibaka and Gasol on expirings I think Nick Nurse could coach Russell Westbrook alright I like it call it into the league

Westbrook for Lowry do they have to throw in anything else OG and Inobi no they can't do that OG coming off that's a that's a hidden asset of theirs. So they're basically saying, okay, see, we're giving you your get out of jail free card.

You have Shea. You have all these picks. Now it's time for, and you can flip Lowry in December. Of course. To whoever. Yeah. Just not to the Knicks because they spent all their money on players already.

All right. We're going to bring in Shea, and then we're going to talk about Vegas and Euphoria after that. We're going to take a break. Kyle, mute House's mic because I don't want him in the background screaming, Fairway Rowland here. We're going to take a break and talk about Callaway, which is the sponsor of Fairway Rowland. Sorry, House. You don't get to do that one.

We love Callaway. We've had a relationship with them for the past three years, really, since we started doing The Ringer. Wanted to tell you about a Callaway staffer,

Adam Hadwin, and what he had in his bag this week at the 3M Open. Rogue driver. Mitsubishi D-Mana white D-plus 70 shafts. Gotta love those. Rogue Sub-Zero fairway

woods. X-Hot Pro Hybrid. Apex Utility. Apex MB 18 irons. Mac Daddy 4 wedges. Chrome Soft-X golf ball. Odyssey Stroke Lab number two double wide putter. He also uses the Chrome Soft-X golf ball on tour. He likes the ball speeds. It creates off the driver, the feel and the increased control into the greens. You can check out all this stuff. Just go to CallawayGolf.com and you can listen to house on fairway rolling as we head toward the British open. The gambling advice on this podcast cannot be understated. It is a great podcast. I appear in it from time to time.

Fairway Rowan presented by Callaway only on the Ringer Podcast Network. All right, Shea Serrano on the line. He is, what have you been spending your summer doing, Shea? It seems like you've spent a lot of family time. You're like going for Father of the Year. What's going on with you?

A lot of traveling now we this is our first like summer in the in the new house and so we're just fucking hanging out all day every day hiking you were on a hike we went on a hike i went out i was outside so i was outside for five full hours my god during during the free agency stuff. This was the day after Kawhi made his announcement. I woke up to that and then we went hiking. So that's what I was doing when all that stuff was going down. It's been fantastic. You had to go wander in the wilderness to try and make some sense out of all

of it. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. It was a pilgrimage of sorts. So you're a diehard Spurs fan and you watch Kawhi for seven years. Did you ever think that he would become the master

manipulator? That Game of Thrones character that he became? Where not only did he land on the team he wanted to land on, but he also screwed over OKC and screwed over the Lakers. Did you ever see this coming? Nobody saw this coming.

And the reason nobody saw it coming is because he is exactly that. It turns out he's a tactical genius that we all just had no idea that's what was going on. That's why he was being so quiet. The human version of the loose lips think ship, that's him. He's the real version of that. It's incredible. I still can't get over it because he just seemed, especially

when he was trying to get out of San Antonio house and Uncle Dennis became somebody in our lives and it just seemed like a train wreck. It was like, what is this guy doing? Why would he want to leave the Spurs? Who's Uncle Dennis? This is just a complete shit show.

This guy's getting bad advice. This is going to end up so badly for him. Well, it sounds like, Shea, have you forgiven him? How's San Antonio feeling about Kawhi? You just expressed admiration for him. Yeah, it does seem like you kind of forgave him there, Shea. Listen, so we were at the house yesterday. My dad came over.

It was his birthday, 57th birthday. He came over. We're cooking and hanging out and talking about the Kawhi Leonard situation. And I think we are like, we are officially past the point of forgiveness. He's 100% forgiven. The like beginnings of that happened when he came to San Antonio, Toronto, San Antonio game. And then him and

pop had the embrace afterward and then pop at the end of the game and the press conference was like okay everybody relax it's over like that's when that's when san antonio started to officially heal we got the chance to boo him we got the chance to see him we got to see him hug pop and we're like all right if pop's cool we got to be cool. And then when this happened, oddly enough, him leaving Toronto made it easier for Spurs fans because we realized that there's no more argument about it. There was nothing that could have been done. Kawhi was going to end up in LA this season.

So at the very least, we got DeMar out of it, who's been fantastic. So let's go ahead and cheer for Kawhi. We watched him destroy the Warriors dynasty, so we had to be thankful for that. We finally got that revenge. If the Spurs didn't get it, at least Kawhi got it for us. So he's all good in San Antonio now.

There's a small faction of people who are still angry about it, absolutely, but by and large, Kawhi's fine. But if he goes to the Lakers, it's probably not as healed, I would guess. If he goes to the Lakers, it swings 100% in the opposite direction. We hate the Lakers in any and all forms. So this is what's kind of amazing about this Kawhi thing, the more I thought about it. Because I did a podcast the next morning, which is up in the archives.

I did 12 hours thinking about it, trying to, like, my big quick questions. But the more I thought about this Kawhi thing, to pull off going to the Clippers without Toronto being really that the fans, I'm sure they're hurt, but they can't be mad. He brought them a title. He never said he was staying. He never lied to them and then the San Antonio fans the one thing that really would have bugged him

is if he had just joined the super team house with LeBron and AD and it just was such the and a nemesis not just that

it was a super team but the Lakers are a damn nemesis yeah the Lakers are the Derek Fisher shot that's and that's where he and you know

and then the other thing with the Lakers is the whole Kobe versus Duncan thing, and you know, in a really incredible turn of events, people now thinking that Kobe was better than Duncan. Who thinks that? Unbelievable. Most people.

Who are most people? Most basketball fans. No, nobody that we know thinks that way. I'm telling you, people under 30 think Kobe had a better career and that he was a better basketball player than Tim Duncan. That is true. That's what's wrong with this country. People under 30. But it is true. And so you have the combination of that. And then also there was some good Shaq Duncan stuff. There was some good battles and playoff series and things. So that's the team.

Who do you hate the most? What's the rankings? What are the Spurs fans, teams they hate the most rankings? Like all time? Just like who's your rival? Is it Dallas? Dallas your number one rival?

Dallas is not our number one rival anymore. There was a period when Dirk was going nuts. 06 to 08. Yeah. That was like, we can't stand them at all. So, if we're doing like all-time, it's got to be the Lakers first.

And I'm just going by stretches of years where you actively, viscerally hated this team. It was definitely the Lakers, because we're going back and forth in the early 2000s. We win the title, you win the title, y'all win the title, we win the title, this whole thing is going on. So it's them, and then it's right now, and then it's the Rockets, and then the Mavericks.

So that's the top three. That's the order for the three. Yeah, so he ends up, so Kawhi goes to the Clippers, who nobody cares about really around the league, and pulls off this situation where he ended up where he wanted. He wasn't lying the whole time. He wanted to go to Southern California. He has now won a

title in two different cities, has a chance to win a title now as the best player on yet another champion, which I'm reasonably sure has never happened. Has anyone been the best guy on three championships teams? That has not happened. No, it's happened with

two teams. LeBron did it, and Kareem did it. But it's never happened with three. On three teams, I mean like three finals in the season, he's like, never. If he goes to the Clippers and he wins a title there, he becomes automatically the greatest gun for hire of all time. And he automatically also jumps into like, he might be the fourth best basketball player of all time.

If he can pull this off. I think he might have to. That's a little high. I mean, the combination of. I'm happy to put them in like the top 16 to 20. But the combination of not just the tactics, right? Not just observing kind of what he could pull off and, you know, finding the right destination,

but also doing it in a way that all of us in the entire basketball fan community are expressing admiration for him. So his very keen ear for like hearing all of the criticism that Durant took and understanding why people, I'm giving him credit for this because of how he pulled it off, how people reacted to the way LeBron did it. And here we are, he's done basically the same thing. I mean, the reports were that he

was, he called up KD first. He's like, yo, KD, can we do it? KD's like, nah, I'm out. Okay, baby, let me, let me get on the next line. Oh, he calls up PG. Hey, PG, you want to do it? No, he did Jimmy Butler. Oh, he did. Okay, baby, let me get on the next line. Oh, he calls up PG. Hey, PG, you want to do it? No, he did Jimmy Butler. Oh, he did, okay. Yeah, he had Jimmy Butler, and then I'm not sure. I know he called Shea, and Shea's like, I don't play basketball. But normally I would go, but I don't think I would help you. But like what office should he hold after this?

Because it's the combination of both the deft touch and understanding the sentiment, the public sentiment. He's a hero. Well, and the add to that is, so as we wrap up the player empowerment decade, this is the first time it's gone kind of well for somebody in all the ways, you know? We've seen guys switch teams dating back to the 60s.

Will Chamberlain, I think, was the first guy who did. He did it twice. And each time there was bitterness after. And then it's been a recurring theme, Kareem ditches Milwaukee. And that's it. He's like, I'm out of here. This is too small of a city. I want to play in LA. Shaq goes to Orlando. C-Web ditches Golden State. Then he ditches Washington. He tries to ditch Sacramento. It's been a recurring theme for 60 years. This is the first time I've seen somebody pull it off in a way that everybody was like, all right, that was cool. Even the way he turned the tables on all the prognosticators. Oh, so good. And now they're playing, we see the clips online, there's video clips, they're playing them on the

radio, just all these different people going. I'm like my buddy Jalen, 99% sure he's going. I still stand by the 99. He did not see the Paul George coming. But Stephen A. Smith saying, I'm here. He's going to the Lakers. Chris Broussard saying, I'm going to the Lakers. All these people. We did a podcast on Tuesday, me and Rosillo.

We think he's going to the Lakers. And he just shoved it up all of our butts. Nobody was like, no, no, no. He wants to go to the Clippers. He's going to figure out a way to get somebody else. Um, and then he, you must've loved this part as an action movie buff.

Shay, he, he let, he let the Lakers kind of dangle along there, kind of knowing what was going to happen the whole time and really stuck it to them. Almost the second time you might, you like that deep down.

Oh, I love that. I love screwing up the Lakers in any way possible and just messing with them, making everybody feel like I'm coming there and then not. Lakers fans were more upset about Kawhi having not gone to the Lakers than Toronto fans were that he left their team after he won them a championship. It was unbelievable to watch online. Again, this is just a masterful

play by Kawhi. We're talking like, we're talking Amy and Gone Girl, like levels of sophistication. We're just putting a plan in place and pulling all the right levers and in the very end, he pulls a string and we realize we've all been duped. We're all dangling from the and in the very end he pulls a string and we realize

we've all been duped. We're all dangling from the tree in the net and we don't know what to do and he fucking walks off the window again. It's just unreal.

He is Kaiser Sosa. Instead of being covered in Neil Patrick Harris' blood he was covered in Messiah Ujiri's blood. By the way, Shay, Gone Girls Rewatchables,

are you in for that? Absolutely. Okay, because I think that movie By the way, Shay, Gone Girls Rewatchables Are you in for that? Absolutely Okay, because I think That movie, every time it's on, I end up watching Every time And it's really good Fincher And I think A really top-notch Affleck performance

You're not with me? House has never seen it House is staring at me blankly You gotta see it So Shay, what You're not with me? House has never seen it. House is staring at me blankly. You got to see it. You got to see it. So, Shea, what team, everybody's talking about the parity with seven, eight, nine teams that can win, all that stuff. What team do you have your eye on?

Where's Shea's, you don't gamble, but where's Shea's imaginary money going? My imaginary money is going on. I feel like Utah is getting pretty good odds right now. Yeah. Give me that Utah team. Because all you need is for two players to get hot for three weeks. We know Mike Conley is not afraid of the playoffs. We've seen it.

We know Rudy Gobert wants to win desperately. Joe Ingles ain't afraid. Let Donovan get hot and let Conley get hot. And they're going to cause some trouble for basically everybody that they could match up against in the West. There's nobody that you're afraid of anymore. Shea, you didn't say your team first. The Spurs are still in this. I keep hearing their name in connection With this dude that's out there.

This is the other thing we called to talk to you about, Shea. It does seem conceivable. Westbrook. Oh, yeah. Russell Westbrook to the Spurs. How do you feel about that? Oh, you're in. You're in on this.

I'm in. Look, what I don't know, Bill, is I don't know the contract situations. I don't know who we have to give up, how that works. Probably DeRozan. I would say DeRozan would be the logical guy. No, I don't want to give up DeRozan. You wouldn't give up DeRozan for us? You're out.

That's all it took. If we have to give up DeRozan, I really love what DeRozan did when he came down here and played for the Spurs the way that he played. That was like a win-your-heart-over performance this season that he gave. I can't do that to DeMar. I can't do it. Sorry, Russ. I love Russ. I can't give up DeRozan.

Plus, poor DeMar. Toronto wins the title the year after he leaves. Then he gets dumped. He would get dumped by the Spurs. He'd have to live in Oklahoma City. It's tough that'd be a tough chain of events for him

I personally I would personally it's funny I've kind of come around on on Westbrook's contract is reprehensible

but I think there's a couple teams that if he went to it's kind of worth the gamble teams that have no chance to win

the title right now, I would say, Shea, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but San Antonio has no chance to win the title next year. Zero percent chance. Zero chance. We've got DeMar, we've got Lana, we've got LaMarcus, DeJounte

is coming back. Derek White looked like he made the leap in the playoffs. Marcus Morris, your beloved Marcus Morris is coming back. Derek White looked like he made the leap in the playoffs. Marcus Morris, your beloved Marcus Morris is coming down. We got Carol. I drove to the airport. Enjoy those 20-foot isos.

We got a team. We're finishing fourth in the West. We're matching up against, I don't know, who is going to be in fifth. There's no way to tell who's going to be where. We're causing some trouble in the playoffs. You gave up the best shooter in the league, Bertans. That guy doesn't miss.

Now he's on House's team. He's the only good player. I love that they looked at the roster and they're like, who's the one guy who shoots threes? Get rid of him. He was like the one vegan in the room of meat eaters. Don't you think I've spent a lot of time in San Antonio? Maybe a little too much time that one year when it was the games 3, 4, and 5 in the 2013 finals.

I was there for eight straight days living out of a hotel room. The San Antonio crowd I loved and I became very attached to. I loved the diversity, the passion. There's just a little extra something-something with those fans. And I feel like Westbrook would really resonate specifically with those fans, how hard he plays. And I don't know, I just like the fit. I could see him in the uniform.

I would do it. I just like the fit. I could see him in the uniform. I would do it. You would not. Yeah. I mean, like if we're avoiding sentiment and yeah, make that trade. I would, again, same as you, I would love to see Westbrook in that Spurs jersey. I would love to see him paired up with Pop. I would love to have a player on our team who looks like he wants to get in a fight every single game. Yeah.

We haven't had that. We haven't had that. We haven't had that for a while. I'm hoping that Marcus Morris is going to be that guy for it. I'm hoping him and LaMarcus are like good cop, bad cop. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But Westbrook and San Antonio would be a fantastic experiment. It would automatically make the Spurs the league pass team because it's either

going to work out really well or it's going to be a total catastrophe. Either way, you got to watch it. Marcus Morris is definitely somebody who will get into a fight in an NBA game. Unfortunately, it might be with one of his own teammates. You just don't, you never know. I'll take it. I'll take it. He shoved Jalen Brown in the huddle last year,

which was interesting. I did like him. It was just, he was one of those guys, like two, three years was enough you've had you've had guys like that house he's a no no no yes guy he's a classic

no no no yes and we had he's also another one of those when the ball's kind of moving around the perimeter and it goes to him and it just stops

and then everybody stands there because they know he's going to try to come up with a shot or something alright Shea here's the other thing we have to talk about

hit me it's getting close we're now two weeks away come up with a shot or something. All right, Shay, here's the other thing we have to talk about. Hit me. It's getting close. We're now two weeks away. Yes. Well, two plus. We're like 17 days away. Hobbs and Shaw.

First of all, you have this whole sneaky life now where people send you screeners and sometimes you see movies ahead of time. You have not seen this yet, right? No, I refuse to watch this one early. I'm watching it on an IMAX screen by myself. Okay. Scale of one to ten, how fired up are you right now? The volume is turned all the way up for this one, Bill.

Every summer, there's at least one movie I desperately cannot wait to see. This year, it's Hobbs and Shaw. It's a can't-miss situation. You've got the best version of The Rock playing with the best version of Statham, and you're just going to turn them loose? They're ripping a helicopter out of the sky with their muscles. The Rock, using his arm, is yanking a helicopter out of the sky with their muscles. The Rock, using his arm, is yanking a helicopter out of the sky in the trailer. That's a part of the trailer.

I don't know what's going to happen in the movie, but I know it's going to be fantastic. It reminds me a little bit of the Warriors with KD, where the 17 Warriors specifically, such a great team with that really had, you know, they go 15 and one in the playoffs, just a dominant force, but almost too much, too much talent. There's only so many shots to go around. And that was what Fast Five through Fast Eight was like.

Now it's like the Rock and Statham are really going to get a lot of field goal attempts. They're going to have the right usage rate. You know what I mean? They don't have to worry about the Vin Diesel scene and whoever else. Get Tyrese in there. It's going to be those guys.

I do feel like Tyrese at some point this month is going to snap about this movie. He already kind of did a year ago or nine months ago, but I do think there's a full meltdown coming, especially when this movie makes like $230 million in eight days. But House is out. House could care less. No, the trailer is the best action movie I've seen this year.

Yeah. It's incredible. There's not a lot of stuff that makes me want to go to the movies anymore. And maybe part of that is because we're getting old. Yeah, I mean, my movie of the year so far is Toy Story 4. Which is a good movie,

by the way. Yeah, most of these things, especially with action movies, you just wait until it's on pay-per-view. I'm not waiting for Hopsin's show. I will be there. No, absolutely not.

The Rock, Jason Statham. We haven't even talked about Idris Elba is the bad guy and he plays a superhero. Yeah. What is he, genetically engineered? Yeah, a genetically engineered superhero. Vanessa Kirby is playing Shaw's sister.

Roman Reigns is in it. Yeah. I don't even know what he is, but he's in it. Cliff Curtis is in there. Give me Cliff Curtis in every movie. Please, I'm begging you. We have to see this early. Any cable action movies you've been getting

roped into lately? Den of Thieves keeps batting its eyelashes at me. And it's like, hey. Do you not love Den of Thieves? I'm not quite there yet. It's pretty fat. I mean,

and it's not just pretty fat, but Gerard Butler is also pretty fat in the movie. But it feels like a first cut to me. Did you see it, House?

I haven't seen it. It's long. Oh my God. What are you doing? It's over two hours. Yeah, it's over two hours. I'm out on the golf course. I'm sorry.

Yeah, House is playing golf. That's what he's doing. Dinner Thieves comes on HBO or Showtime or one of those cable channels every day. Yeah. And I watch it every day. And I text Chris Ryan. Chris Ryan and I have only had like four conversations

over the last five years. And they've all been about Den of Thieves. Every time it comes on I text them and every time it comes on he texts me. It's my favorite tradition. Den of Thieves is, oh my god. It's so great. It's just such a it's just such a

a bad, dirty, grimy action movie. Let's just take some guys and just turn up the testosterone as high as you can get it and let them just stare at each other and then shoot at each other and that's all they do in the movie and it's great and they rip off about seven different movies during the course of that movie you can think of they just oh we'll do that somebody saw that and was like we should put that in our movie and then they put that in their movie. I've been getting sucked into the town over and over again.

And I think we're going to be doing a rewatchables for that one probably next month. I'm just going to have to make you come out in August. We're going to have to do like three rewatchables. I'm in. I'm in for the town, Den of Thieves, and whatever the other one was we mentioned. Gone girl. I do feel like we have the kind of relationship where, you know that scene in the town when Affleck goes to Jeremy Renner's apartment and he's like, I need you.

We're going to go beat some people up. And I can't tell you why. And he's like, I'm ready. You're my guy for that, Shay. That'd be like, Shay, I'm ready. You're my guy for that, Shay. I'd be like, Shay, I need you. We have to do something, and I can't tell you why. You'd be like, all right, I'm in. Yeah, I don't know if you remember this,

but we were hanging out at South by Southwest. I think at the time I was part-time at Grandland. Yeah. And you had gone to war with the NFL, and all that stuff was going on. And we were just walking around hanging out. I remember that. And we were talking and I was like, Bill, I just want to work for you.

Wherever you go, just take me with you. I don't care what we're doing. And you were like, I got you. No, this is a true story. You had me. This is 100% true story. The only part that wasn't true was I think you were an official Grantland employee at that point. Was I?

Yeah. Cause that was like, I had two months left to go, but I was like, I don't think this is going to go very well. But if I ever do anything again, we're going to work together again. And you're like,

I'm good. That was it. No questions asked. Sign me up. And I said, there's a 10% chance I might start robbing banks in LA. And he's like, I'm in. I've seen every bank heist movie ever.

Where do you stand on Inside Man these days? Inside Man is top level. You've got Clive Owen at the top, at his most powerful. He had like four years of great movies. Great Clive Owen, great Denzel, great script from Spike, great directing from Spike. You've got the great fake out.

You've got like, you always want to watch a thing in a heist movie that you've never seen before. And we get that with a twist ending. Jodie Foster, fantastic in it. We've got a lot of really good parts and pieces Inside Man A plus

but you would still what's your number one bank heist movie? is it The Town? no you know what I think are we counting are we counting Heat

as a bank heist movie? yeah fuck yes yes okay well then then it has to be Heat Heat has to be number one because the only thing the inside man doesn't have and they and this is not like a like a mistake on their part they did this on purpose but i every like great heist movie that i really just am in love with

i need a big shootout i need for somebody i care about in the movie to die at some point the town does it um he does it. Inside Man, they get super smart and wiggle their way around it, which is, they did that brilliantly. But if we're picking number one, you've got to go. He just has too many moments. Even when you're re-watching

it now, it's like, unreal. But what's funny is you were, we were kind of nudging you for Heat for a couple of years there. Me and Chris Ryan, you weren't told you hadn't totally come around and then you finally came around. It took a while.

Yeah. Because I kept trying to watch it and then other stuff would happen. And heat is like fucking seven hours long. You have to sit there and pay attention to the whole thing. You, you have to pay attention to, this is not like a look at your phone movie. You've got to be dialed in

to get invested. Because the big, the moment everything turned for me is I was watching the thing. I'm like, all right, you know, I'm going to put my phone away. Let me just pay attention to this thing. I'm watching, I'm watching, I'm watching.

I'm getting further and further pulled in. And then they do the scene finally. Everybody makes a big deal about the diner scene with De Nro and pacino yeah but i like immediately before the the diner scene when he pulls them over and as he's walking you see de niro look at pacino in the mirror as he's walking up towards him it's the only time they make eye contact yeah and then when pacino gets there he just stares forward and that one

moment i was like holy shit this is this was like this is Hall of Fame acting right here they're just going I could tell they hated each other but also kind of like admired each other a great deal it's gotta be number one it had to be number one

it had to be one of the best moments to be on a movie set cause those guys were still at the peak of their powers just be like alright it's going down. Here's the big diner scene. We did this on a pod before, and I can't remember what your answer was. And I don't know what House's answer is because he never played this game with us.

If you were in a... Oh, we did it during Point Break. When we did the Point Break, we watched it. If you were a bank robber, you're in a group of bank robbers, there's like four or five of you, which guy would you be? I think I'm the driver.

So I said I wanted to be the driver. Oh, why did you want to be the driver? Because I'm the greatest driver in America. You've seen it. You drove with me yesterday. Who's better than me? Nobody. Other than ignoring the ways

and adding an hour and 20 minutes to our trip. That was a directional issue. That was a directional issue. Well, that's important to a bank robber getaway guy. The direction matters. No, I don't trust Waze anymore. Well, what are you going to use? Waze has betrayed me too many times.

No, I would know the escape. All right. You'd have the escape route already mapped out. Shay, which guy were you? I forget. I want to be the guy who gets shot. I want to be like, I want to be the,

the, that guy, the like emotional impact guy. Like, Oh my God, they shot his little brother. I can't believe this happened. I want to be that guy.

Like right as he's getting away, he doesn't realize that the cop had already reached for his gun. He was lying down on the floor. That guy? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I want to be him. I want to be the guy in the action movie

when they're all stranded in the wilderness where we're running away and my glasses fall off and that's why I die. My glasses fell. Oh, your asthma inhaler ran out of puffs?

If this is real life that's me I you know I want to be I want to be the Garrett Hunland Headland how do you say his last name

Garrett Headland Triple Frontier yeah the younger the younger brother or when he dies you just are sad

oh my god four brothers I want to be that guy if Simmons is going to be the getaway guy I want to be the initiator I want to be the calm cool collected fellow, if Simmons is going to be the getaway guy, I want to be the initiator. I want to be the calm, cool,

collected fellow. We're here for the bank's money, not yours. Well, I know what I'm, we're going to keep it cool. Everybody. We're going to keep this chill.

I'm going to do it. The Samuel L version. I want to walk in there. Here's a note. Here's how we're all going to, here's how it's going to go down. Everybody be cool. Yeah.

Everybody chill out. I, uh, nobody wants to be the guy who takes it too far. Because that guy's always in the bank robbery gang. The guy who, in heat, the cop was staring at him.

It was Wayne Grove. Didn't like how he was staring at him, so he shoots him. But there's always Jeremy Renner's the guy in the town. He just kind of takes it a notch too far. Who's our ringer wild card? We have a couple. The guy in the town. He just kind of takes it a notch too far. Who's our ringer wildcard? We have a couple.

Two fuckers, a guy in juice. Yeah. Somebody has to say, I had to shoot him. He was going for his gun. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't have to be said. Well, Wingrove. He's the queen of people from set it off.

Wingrove does the, I had to get it on, man. I had to get it on. I love those guys. In my opinion, they should make a bank robbery gang movie every 18 months. Absolutely. Because Den of Thieves is really not a good movie. And yet there's a reason it's on cable. You're crazy.

It's on cable every day because it is a good movie. No, but it's really not. It's like very poorly edited. And Gerard Butler. No. Come on. It's a half hour too long. It's six hours

too short. I disagree. I would watch I would watch, what's his name? Pablo and Gerard just stare at each other for another four hours. That's what they do for basically half of the movie. They just look at each other.

I would, give me more, Give me as much as possible. I also love kidnap movies. I just watched one on Hulu. There was a movie called The Disappearance of Alice Somebody. It was with Gemma Atherton. It was these two guys who

kidnapped this woman. They had it all planned out. The first five minutes is just them building the soundproof room that they're going to put her in and all this woman. They had it all planned out. The first five minutes is just them building the soundproof room that they're going to put her in and all this stuff. And then there's a bunch of monkey wrenches as it goes along. I like any movie where you're watching it

and you're like, who would I be in this movie? How would I handle this? If we're at the park and somebody grabbed my kid, what do I do? Could I survive? That's that Halle Berry movie that's also terrible, Ransom, that I've watched seven times, where they take her kid and

she's basically chasing the kidnappers in this Acura SUV just going after them, trying to hunt them down. Yeah, I like Ransom. Yeah, I like ransom movies. I like bank robbery movies. And you know what another one I was watching?

Pulp Fiction has been on a lot lately. And it's one we've been saving. We're trying not to do all the rewatchable movies, the best ones, like in the first two years. That one will be like one of the five best. There's the most fodder in that movie. I watched the last hour. It's basically from

when Winston Wolfe gets involved, when they shoot Marvin's head, all the way through Winston Wolfe and then the ending. It's just spectacular. It's spectacular. I think this might be my weirdest take, if we're arranging them that way Pulp Fiction for me I've never

felt that way about that movie Pulp Fiction to me is it's like a highlight reel movie where I want to watch some of the scenes on YouTube every once in a while I want to see the Marvin scene I want to see the diner scene I want to see the say what again scene

but I never want to watch them all I never want to watch the whole movie. I don't know what it is about it. It is one of those movies you can come in for a half hour. I personally, I love it and I like the whole movie together. What do you think, Alex? I agree with exactly what Shay's saying. It feels like a sequence

of these teeny tiny stories all just loosely connected. And it works. I like sitting down and watching it from beginning to end because I like all the stories. It's worth it to invest in the stories. But I also like the idea of sitting down

and watching three of those little stories and, you know, jumping up and down and watching Uma get her heart saved with an injection. Oh, that's a good one. I mean, yeah, I'm in. I noticed at the end, nobody comes in that diner for like 15 minutes. It's a crowded diner during breakfast time.

And somehow they're robbing it forever. Sam Jackson's giving Tim Roth a life talk. Just nobody coming in the door. Little flaw. All right, alright Shay what else when's your book coming out by the way book comes out October 8th we're three months away today

I'm ready movies another thing some of these movies we just talked about are in that book right I think every movie you mentioned is in that book is there a bank robbery chapter there's a chapter in there I haven't told anybody what's in the book yet's a chapter in there. This is the first,

I haven't told anybody what's in the book yet. I'm going to tell you, you're the first person. This is the first time anyone will know. One of the chapters in the book, we have to build a perfect heist movie crew. You have to build, you pick pieces from each movie.

You need a leader. You need a driver. The guy you mentioned, the girl you mentioned, we need someone to send everything sideways. We need someone who's going to try to, you know, pull the carpet out from everybody. That person, that's one of the chapters in the book.

It's maybe one of my favorite chapters in there. Some beautiful artwork that Arturo drew. That's a fun chapter. All right, don't spoil the chapter, but can you tell us who you decided was the driver? Because I know it wasn't me. It wasn't you, and it wasn't Baby Driver, and it wasn't anybody from Ronin.

I'm going to tell you who it was because it was the heist movie. It was Letty. It's Letty from Fast and the Furious. Give me Letty every time. The best driver in the series. That's aty from Fast and the Furious. Give me Letty every time. The best driver in the series. That's a home town. That's a great car. That's a Homer pick.

You just love Letty. Absolutely. Absolutely. That was like the backup pick was Tim Duncan. The car wasn't big enough for his legs. Letty. Letty is great though. What's Letty's, what's her biggest failure in the fast series

when the car spun out but that wasn't her fault they they mess with the car somehow they shoot the the oh no her biggest failure

I'm gonna go no failure at all I think she's perfect she always gives it she always gives the look she has the she has the best driving

stunt in the whole series. And the first one, she's the one who goes under the 18 wheeler, which they recreated in Hobbs and Shaw, by the way, just as either, either as a hat tip or like an FU, one of those two, but they did it on purpose in Hobbs and Shaw. She has that moment and in Furious 7, she fishtails her car along the edge of a cliff so that Brian can jump and grab onto it. She saves his life. She does this incredible, amazing thing. He runs up the bus as it's falling off the cliff. He jumps. She comes swinging around. He grabs it. He goes flipping all the way off to the side of the ground. She gets out of the car. She's totally unimpressed because this is just what she does. And she's like, are you good?

Like, yeah, thank you. That's who I want in the driveway. I want somebody who understands the way Bill, I don't need Bill Simmons driving my car. I need Letty. Give me Letty every time.

Uh, I can't argue with that. All right. Well, we look forward to the book. Shay, I'm glad you've come to grips with the Kawhi thing. Thanks for coming on. Me too.

All right. See you, buddy. Later. Let's you've come to grips with the Kawhi thing. Thanks for coming on. Me too. Thank you. See you, buddy. Later. Let's take a break to talk about PointsBet. If you're a New Jersey sports better, you're thinking of getting into the action, check this one out. It's the sports by Gallin Iverson, Darrell Rivas,

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Additional terms and conditions apply. And if you have a gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Points bet. Stay sharp. All right, we want to talk about Vegas and a couple other things. So we go to Vegas on Saturday.

We do a live show at Caesars Palace. We love Caesars Palace. We're about to complain about Caesars Palace. This is a trend we've noticed. Been going to Vegas since the mid-90s. And Vegas has shifted over the last 25 years in a bunch of ways. It's no longer underground. It's no longer

just dudes, especially in the weekends. Definitely not. There's a ton of great restaurants. All the casinos are just these machines now designed to keep you there. I think Caesars is a good example. They have

not only their main casino, but they have the forum shops and they have all these great restaurants and then a mall attached. And it's just like, they don't want you to go to any other place in the thing. All these casinos are wired this way. And one thing they're realizing is more and more people go to Vegas every year is, well, let's just take their money even more than we ever thought we would. So at Caesars now, they pay six to five on blackjack, which they don't tell you. You have to look on the table.

You don't even really realize it's there. It's a significant difference, and it feels like they're stealing. So it's like if I bet $100 on a hand, in the old days, you get a blackjack, you win $150 from the blackjack, three to two outs. Now you win $120. So it's $30 just out the window. And one of the ways you win money

if you play blackjack for a while is you got to hit some blackjacks every once in a while. So they've taken that out. The other thing they did is splitting aces, which everybody does, and it's supposed to be an advantage for the player. They made it so that you can only split aces once. So if you get a third ace,

you're just stuck with a 12. It's like, fuck you. It's way worse to get the third ace. Yeah. Now it's like I don't even want to split aces now because I might get a third ace. And of course, they're not telling you this because every dealer is just determined to just take your money there. We should have led this segment with a warning. This is old guy radio. Well, yeah.

So I'm going to get to that. We're going to get to old guy radio. I just think it's hilarious that Vegas, the whole thing was like, come here, gamble. It'll be awesome. Now it's like, come here, do all the other stuff that we bring to the table in Vegas. And when you gamble, we're taking your money. So this is exactly the point, right? It is now an entertainment place.

Like before our era, and I don't know if we were at the front end of the transition, the transformation, or sort of where our trips to Vegas. You had your legendary Vegas crew that you wrote about. Wrote about a bunch of times. Legendary trips on page two with ESPN and so forth. And we've been on a number of trips together as well. The main focus for us going to Vegas was to gamble. We went to Las Vegas. The entertainment for us was the gambling.

We didn't go there. The food was basically just fuel. It was two pieces of pizza. Exactly. It was like so we can get back to the tables. And the only like variance was like, we might change venues to try and change the mojo here. Or if you're trying to leave, it's like, oh, I'm having bad luck at Caesars. Let's go to the Wynn. That's a half hour before I'm at the Wynn. And even if I want to walk to another casino, that's 20 minutes. Plus it's the effing desert. It's so goddamn hot. Yeah, and it's 100 degrees out.

But that's the thing. They don't care about people coming to seriously gamble. They don't care about changing the odds and tilting them way in their favor. Blackjack is already, the odds are against you when you sit down at a blackjack table. You're going to lose money. They change them in a completely unfair way to tilt the odds in a way that you are never going to win money unless you have an incredible stretch of card luck. But that's the point. The people sitting down at those tables are people spending entertainment dollars. Those are not people who have intentions of winning money at gambling. Yeah. They just assume those people are going to gamble for an hour and probably lose. So let's

tilt the odds against them even more because they're going to gamble anyway. That's right. It's funny. They did this last decade. They had those machines that just automatically spat out. It was basically an infinite hand. You never had a shuffle. There was no six-card deck. The cards would just come out

and get spat out by a machine, and it just never ended. We all hated them. It became a thing that really started last decade and got to the point where me and my friends, especially the Vegas crew like me and Hopper and Bish and those guys, when we were looking for blackjack tables, we wouldn't sit down at the table that just spat

the cards out. We wanted the six deck shoot because we still feel like there's power in here are the six decks. They're going this way. Oh, shit. There's so many face cards coming.

We still felt like we had a modicum of control. Even if we didn't, we felt that way. You knew it was tilted, but at least felt slightly fair. You can pay attention and see just what you're describing. It's not card counting to pay attention to, we're on a run. Six twos just came out. People would say,

I can't wait to get through the shoot and all that stuff. And those machines ruined that. And something interesting happened. They got rid of them because people didn't like them. And especially by about 07, 08, 09, if you walked around and you saw those tables, they'd just be empty and the price would be less for them. And people would be like, fuck that. I'm not sitting there. They would sit there if they were desperate on a Friday night. So now we've swung back to Vegas trying to pillage the gamblers again. And it's stuff like the six to five odds on a blackjack, which seems subtle, but it's not.

Because if I'm playing blackjack for 10 hours. Which is the Bill Simmons way. You're the grinder. Well, not anymore because I can't win anymore. But you're playing for that long and you get blackjack 20 times. Whatever you're betting, that could end up being a couple hundred dollars or more, depending on how much you're betting, that they're just taking now. Yes.

It's more than a VIG. It's way more than a VIG. And they have all these other rules that screw you. So I'm down on that we in general, we're old you turned 50 this year I'm about to turn 50 in a couple months and Vegas

became a 24 hour place for me, I would say about 5-6 years ago I could do one great night but two was I'd be sick for a couple days after. This weekend was the first time. We were supposed to stay until Monday, and I texted you on Sunday morning.

I was like, you want to just go back? And you're like, yes. And we rented a car, and we drove back. And I left Vegas a day earlier than I thought. And I feel like Vegas is now dying for me as I get close to 50. It's sad. Sad day, house. Well, the one element of it that was the big attraction to us, the true entertainment value for us resided in the shared experience of gambling. And if you diminish that,

the way that our experience at Caesars- Yeah, this is like three, four years, but it isn't just Cesar's. It's, it's a bunch of these casinos. It just seems like it's harder to win. I have no evidence, but I, every time I'm out with whoever, and I've been there with a bunch of different friend groups, it usually doesn't go great. And I don't know what's going on. New Orleans, everybody has good luck at Harrah's. Harrah's is designed to keep you there gambling. That's what they want. Right. It's not like they want you to go to the 11 other restaurants they have.

They're like, stay fucking here. Have a good time. Their dealers want you to win. Their dealers are so much better in New Orleans. In the Vegas casinos, the dealers are like assassins. So my question to you, I asked you this, uh, now with the legalized sports gambling that will soon be the case in, in every state that cares about it, you know, there's no, no longer any legal impediment to legalizing sports gambling. And that means you can all, you know, any, any state there's, there's no bar right now on states having tables.

You can play tables in Cleveland. You can play tables in Delaware. You can play tables in New Jersey. It's pretty depressing. Well, but that's the thing, right? Those places are, I played in Cleveland. It was downright depressing. But anybody who has a point of view on trying to make the experience more conducive to what we kind of are complaining about,

what we miss, there's no bar to that now. Vegas has competition. So I'm not going to Vegas. The only thing that will get me to Vegas now, I'm not going to gamble in Vegas anymore. I'm not either. I'm out. I think I'm done. I'm out.

There's no reason to gamble. I asked Haral Bob. Haral Bob thought, um, he was just like variance. Cause I was like, I haven't really had a fun actual gambling experience in Vegas in like three years where I went with my friends and we all did well. And he's like, yeah, it's variance. It'll be fine. But then I told him about the six to five thing.

He's like, that's fucking crazy. Yeah, you can't play that table. He's like, you shouldn't have ever sat down there. That's right. You're right. But we're looking at it like it's one o'clock. We haven't gambled yet. And it's like, all right, if we leave here, now it's 1.30.

And it's like, oh, fuck it. I'll do this. But this is the beauty. This is how they get you. I know. But the beauty of the American way is competition brings out the best. So there are opportunities for great American cities. Austin, Texas could put some tables in.

Houston, Texas. San Francisco. Well, FYI, those opportunities are in Vegas. We just didn't go find them. tables in. Houston, Texas. San Francisco. FYI, those opportunities are in Vegas. We just didn't go find them. I think maybe the zig or the zag, the inefficiency now is to go to the non-big casinos.

We have to send somebody out. We need a scout. I'd love feedback. If you want to email me about this, email at the... It's mailbagattheringer love feedback. If you want to email me about this, email at the, it's mailbag at the ringer.com. If you have advice for Vegas casinos, where it seems like they actually want the people who are playing blackjack to win.

Or just have a good time because three buddies sit down at a table and have a good time. The big ass casinos now seem like they're designing everything to just get you in and out as fast as they possibly can. Because they know they haven't, it's entertainment dollars. As soon as we get up, there's another three people sitting down behind us. And people like us who are like, it's one o'clock.

Ah, fuck it. Let's sit down. Yeah. It'll take, oh, we'd love to have your $300. Yes, please sit down. We'll have, we'll take it from you in the next 10 minutes. The thing is we had, it was me, you and Rosillo. Yeah.

We'd never all gambled together. I was so excited. You stole $200 from Rosillo. You haven't paid it down. We'll take it from you in the next 10 minutes. The thing is, it was me, you, and Rosillo. We'd never all gambled together. I was so excited. You stole $200 from Rosillo. You haven't paid it back. Yeah, I may not pay it back. You did a classic show house where you show up in Vegas. He's like, I gotta go to an ATM. Then it's like, can I borrow $200? I didn't even ask. He insisted. $200 he's never going to see for

the rest of his life. He insisted. It was worth it. We're all fired up for it. Within 45 minutes of six to five blackjacks and not being able to split aces and the unfriendly dealer just crushing us, you guys were like, we're going to go get some pizza. That was it. We wanted the pizza run. And then I was with these four

other dudes and I had this new table of people I liked. They were all really nice. And we're like, we're just dying for the table to get going. We're just getting crushed. And it just seems like that's the big casino. But maybe this is what the listeners can tell us. Maybe there are a little smaller casinos where they still are pro player.

Well, God, if Palace Station, talking about competition, that has the incredible Jambalaya Gumbo, the place that David Chang took me to and recommends as one of his, you know, lifelong, uh, eating pleasures. If a place like that had some great tables, that would be a fun time. Well, Cosmo's another one where I just, people have bad luck there. And it's packed. Everyone I know is packed.

It's packed. Cosmo, MGM, Caesars, Wynn. Um, I haven't been to Mandalay in a while. I don't know if it's if that's on the radar anymore. But the big ass ones that know they have a ton of people, my advice would be don't gamble there anymore. I'll have some suggestions hopefully from the readers, but I think the new marketing efficiency in Vegas,

see now I've talked myself in, I'm going back. Well, as soon as we get some intel, we need intel. I remember cousin Sal and I in like 2006 range, we were staying at the some Intel, we need Intel. I remember Cousin Sal and I in 2006 range, we were staying at the Westin because we had kids. It was the only time I stayed kind of off the strip ever. We had our families and our kids. And we ended up gambling at the Westin, and there was nobody there. And we were just cleaning up.

But we were like, this is the best. Maybe that's what you have to do in Vegas now. Right. I would stay away from the big casinos for, listen, go to the big casinos for the awesome restaurants. Right. I would stay away from the big casinos for, listen, go to the big casinos for the awesome restaurants and all the shit they have going.

The live show we did at Cleopatra's Barge. Yeah, great shows. That they might not let us do again because we're complaining about 65 Blackjack. But the thing is,

don't have fucking 65 Blackjack. I'm sorry. That's right. All right. So we covered that. We did a sad ride home yesterday

and I screwed up. I did a sad ride home yesterday. And I screwed up. I fully admit with the Waze. Didn't listen to the Waze. But it was also a really fun ride because we got to hang out. And the Vegas ride is still fun. We stopped in Baker, which is about, I would say, an hour and a half to two hours. It's the last stop on the way back to LA before the barstow stop. And

we don't know what's going on in Baker, but there's motels there that seem like they've... We don't know why anybody would stay at the motel in Baker that's in the middle of nowhere. One of them was called the Bun Boy Motel. We did drive by

the Bun Boy. We drove by the Bun Boy. We didn't get a picture. It's a regret that we didn't get a picture together. We should have gone in. We should have just gotten a room. The question that I have is, okay, I understand why now nobody would stay at those things, but what was the original business plan?

In Baker? Yes. How did those make sense ever? Well, obviously they didn't because none of them that we drove by had cars. Is it like a trucker? Is 15 north and south a trucker?

Maybe, that's what it is. Is that a truck stop? People that just have to stop because they're going to fall asleep. But that, I mean, between Las Vegas and Los Angeles, it's four hours kind of normal, three and a half if you get super lucky.

Why would you need to stop? So I didn't drive to Vegas this weekend because of the earthquakes. I got freaked out. Yeah. Because I really thought probably my number one biggest nightmare is being on a yacht.

During a tsunami? No. Well, I mean, obviously that, Oh, I mean, realistic. I'm being on a yacht where something happens with the sewage. Remember that thing that happened on that yacht that time where the,

the sewage thing fell apart and it was just like a, like a tipped over portage on as a yacht for like five days. No, it was a story. Oh, a story. Yeah. It was a new story.

Yeah. There was a yacht, right. Where the sewage went, went haywire. And it was just like, everybody was just story. Oh, a story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a new story. Yeah. There was a yacht, right, where the sewage went haywire. And it was just like everybody was just throwing up for five days. That would be my worst case scenario. My second worst case scenario would be driving through Death Valley and there's an earthquake. Because Death Valley is already scary enough.

It's one of those places where you feel like there's about a 45 minute stretch where you feel like if your car broke down, that's it. Yeah. Be like, what happened? What happened to Bill? There's no sign of him or his car. I'd like to give credit to whoever came up with Death Valley because that is as advertised. That is a great, it is exactly how it feels. I did not like Death Valley. I don't like driving through it it is it is sparse

it's scary it's inferno hot outside it's a hundred and it was a hundred and ten degrees at one point yeah

Kyle kind of likes it Kyle likes beating down places Kyle loved Cleveland loved it are you kidding me Kyle was looking for you still want to go on Trulia you still want to go on Trulia and look at Cleveland Apartments.

Something near the casino. He's like, you need a four-bedroom apartment. Yeah, there's a couple signs, right? The abandoned motels, that's a problem. When you see signs for the store and it's just selling trees and bees, which we saw at one point. Trees and bees, is that your business plan? it's just selling trees and bees which we saw at one point trees and bees is your that's your business plan

it's just a store we have trees and bees that's all we have and there's not other stores around it it was like a home where the front was converted into

a storefront this was later as we kept driving that's always a red flag to me when there's a sign for no more gas for another 25 miles again where it's

like all right death valley special these next 25 miles if anything happens i'm just fucked i die my car breaks down right now i'm dead or i'm walking 25 miles of death valley to the gas station. Yeah. So the trip was fun though. We shortcutted trying to go to Burbank to drop our rental car off. And for, I would say, 35, 40 minutes, drove through some part of California that I had never been through before. And you just realize how gigantic California is

and how weird it is. Yeah. California is the size of the entire East Coast. Well, I mean, and it's, you know, it's like either the second or third biggest economy in the world. It's not surprising. It's just like you just forget. And it could be its own country.

Other thing we want to talk about was euphoria. I know you were disappointed yesterday. It was only a one-dick episode. You were hoping. How dare you? You were hoping for a 30 dicker. I definitely was not. I never root for that.

We both love the show. I thought last night's show, I don't want to spoil it. I guess we'll make this the end of the podcast. So if people either haven't caught up or haven't watched the show, we don't want to spoil it. But I just think it's so exceptionally well done

and well acted. And I've just never seen a show like it. It's, I don't even know if I totally like it. I just know I haven't had an X, a visual experience with a show like this, where I'm just prepared for all bad behavior at all times. I love the way that you just set that up. For me, you know, with, with Game of Thrones, I was always at the very beginning of

the episode looking for certain signs of things that I want to come out of it. I'm always looking for a strong end. You're looking for the end and the SSC. The beginning of Euphoria is I cringe now because it gives warnings about all kinds of stuff that is

trauma watching. It's trauma watching. It's trauma TV. I'm going to be traumatized. I just, I know it going in. They ask you to text somebody after the show to deal with whatever emotion has been triggered in you. I've never seen a show like that.

They, they, they hit 30 depraved human behaviors in every episode. If you have any of these problems in your life or know anybody who has any of these problems, here's the number to call. But they cover the entire gamut of the bad shit, the worst shit that can

happen to somebody or that another person can do to another person. Any sexual prolification. Kids as the vehicle. It's a hard watch for me. I'm just telling you right now. It's not an easy, I can't sit down and be tired or be depressed or have something on my mind when I'm watching Euphoria. Having said all of that, I think it's fucking brilliant.

I think it's brilliant too. And I think it's interesting. The criticism that seems to be against it. First of all, the 20 somethings are actually the demo that seem like are the most split on it. And a lot don't like it, which doesn't surprise me. Um, I think you have to look at it as,

this is not supposed to be a realistic show. It's not representative. They're not like, Hey, here's, here's what life is like in LA with rich kids these days. This is a worst case scenario, craziest case scenario. It's gonzo.

It's basically like all of your worst fears or just things you've heard about or things you don't totally understand, but on PEDs. That's the show. Yeah. And let me ask you, I don't sit and watch it as a parent and say, oh, I hope all these things don't happen to my kid when I watch these kids going through all this stuff. Yeah, because your kid's not old enough yet.

Well, this is what I was just going to ask you. Do you have that experience watching this show? Yeah. How do I not? Well, I mean... I mean, I learned yesterday, but I'm not letting my daughter and fucking Mary-round again.

That's it. You're 14. No more merry-go-rounds for you. The carousel. The carousel. The carousel. Yeah, no more. Oh, my God.

You're done. Let's not talk. We can't be. Nobody over eight should be in a merry-go-round. I learned that last night. We can't be any more explicit about what happened in that scene. That was not even one of the top six most traumatizing moments. It wasn't even traumatizing as far as I was concerned.

Well, I mentioned earlier it was a one dick episode. Unfortunately, the one dick was the most traumatizing moment of the episode, which was this giant fat guy jerking off to, what was she, like an 11-year-old? Yeah, she's supposed to be 11 in that scene. Yeah. Or was she 11, 12, or 13? One of those ages. Did you see it, Kyle?

No, I have not. I can't unsee it. Well, I mean, here's the thing. There's been nine things that's happened on this show that I cannot unsee. This is how the show communicates to you the experience that you're about to undergo. It's in the first five minutes of the show, and what they're doing is setting up

this traumatic experience that one of the lead characters underwent as a child because in 11 or 12 years... Zendaya. No, this wasn't Zendaya. Oh, you're talking about yesterday's episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is the setup of the show. They're giving us this flashback

into her childhood. Right. Where she was institutionalized. Yeah. And they want to show us what it was like in this particular facility. But she was introduced

because it was a boy who was convinced she was a girl. Yes. And then she transitions later. All true. And the parents are like, wait a second, you're a boy.

What are you doing? But the thing is, the show didn't have to show a gigantic guy jerking off to tell us that the institution was going to be rough, that it was a scary place. I didn't need to see his dick in his hand and him yelling bad curse words to show that it's a youth facility for troubled youth, institutionalized youth. I'm going the other way. It really banged home to me how troubled that place was if we gave you it was like oh there's a fat guy jerking off this is a place i don't want to be yeah right here no youth wants to be in that place no no and so it

was like not a stretch at all that she it was he was a he uh and that was in that at that time of his life, pre-transition. My favorite character is the one who's kind of becoming a porn, I don't want to say star, but she's feeling her oats in the porn scene. Yes. And that actress, I don't know what her name is, but I think she's fantastic. But last episode, she was involved in last week's most traumatic episode

or moment of the episode which was some guy was paying her to interact online on some porn site. It was some guy with the tiniest possible penis who just wanted her to laugh at him about how small his penis

was. Then when she was laughing, he was really enjoying it. Tell me how small it is. Yes. Kyle, you didn't see this scene, did you? Did not see this scene. Kyle, this was the most disturbing thing that's ever been on HBO. Oh, my God. Hands down.

Shit. And there's been a lot of disturbing shit on HBO. HBO is the place that 20 years ago gave us out of BC, knocking out that dude dude putting his headphones on and raping him and Oz which I remember I called you

after that episode just because I needed to talk to somebody it's still traumatic it's not it's no less traumatic today this is a channel that gave us out of BC

yes that's right and last week's episode of Tiny Dick Guy was the single most awful thing I've ever seen on HBO. And yet I keep coming back for the show.

It's so rare at this stage of my life that I avert my glance. I'm not going to watch this. I fast forwarded. I couldn't take it. I was out. I was like, what is happening? Even the way he was jerking off with just his fingers. It was awful.

Way too authentic. He had a little tiny dick. It is like a level of reality that doesn't feel necessary. This is the thing. But that's what it does. This is why the show is so great. It's so raw. It's so over the top with everything that it's even over the top of this

stuff where it's like, all right, it can't just be her having a pay for porn experience. We have to leave this experience just being completely traumatized by it. Yeah. The thing is it has a point. The story is not just these incredible, you know,

depraved behaviors in the light of day, you know, assaulting our senses. The story arc of yesterday's episode that mainly took place at this fair. At a carnival in Malibu. Yeah. It was stunning. It was visually stunning. The music was incredible. I thought it was like one of the best 40-minute stretches I've seen in a show in a while. I can't agree more. I could not agree with you more. It was perfectly crafted.

It was building. There was an intensity to it that it just wouldn't, it was kind of relentless. I thought it was amazing. It sucked me in. I was emotionally attached. Zendaya's character looking for her little sister. I was worried something bad was looming, lurking for the little sister. I was worried that the dad was going to kill Jules.

Well, Jules reconfronted her one-night hookup. Yeah, I don't know how much of a spoil we wanted to give away there. We've already spoiled some. Yeah, I mean, an incredible recombination there and Jules sucking in. Plus a tough one for you because a scary moment that also had chili. The chili. It was a chili station. So you're getting hungry by the chili, but you're scared.

Oh, I was repulsed by it when I realized who the guy was. Yeah, but the chili still looked pretty good, though. The chili looked good. He spilled the chili, you got upset. It was upsetting that the chili got spilled, yes. That was an upsetting moment for me, among many upsetting moments during that. But it was so intensely visual.

It was a five-sense experience. It really was. Those 40 minutes. And this is why I will defend the show to the death. It is incredibly well done and incredibly well acted. And I did not expect to like it, especially being at this stage where my daughter's going to high school next year.

And I'm not really looking for shows and movies that accentuate every fear I have about my daughter going to an LA high school. But this show's really good. The young adults that are acting in this, I don't know any of them except for Zendaya. They're fucking incredible. Well, one of the guys is the tall guy from one of those Netflix movies because my daughter

loves him. Okay. Jake Elordi. I think he was in To All the Boys I Loved Before. Okay. I don't recognize him. I don't recognize any of them except for Zendaya. Well, let me tell you. This is a different performance for him than the Netflix movie. Well, the payoff.

And then the porn lady is a famous model. Oh, okay. She's like a plus-size model who's done a lot of body stuff. Terrific. And then the trans character is a famous trans model too. Okay, great. I hadn't, I wasn't aware of any of their work. They're all incredible actors and actresses. Yes. I'm blown away by them. Well, the funny thing is Zendaya is like a God for teenagers. Like she was one of the OG Mount Rushmore Disney stars. So if they saw her

on this show, I don't really know the demo for this show and I don't think HBO really does either. I just think they're proud of it, but I'll be interested to see what kind of tale it is and whether people catch up. Cause I'll tell you this, it's not a binge watch show. No.

It's not like, oh, I'm going to catch up on these four episodes of Euphoria. This is like one hour and you're good. That's it. I do not want to watch. Succession was a binge watch show. It's like, oh, what's the succession? I'll watch three today.

Because the story behaved that way. I can't handle more than an hour of euphoria. I need a week to recover. It's a full week recovery time for me. We watched it last night with my wife and all of us were kind of like, didn't know what to do after. What did we do?

I don't even remember. I think we all just decided to just call it a day. I put on SportsCenter. I got in bed and put I think we all just decided to just call it a day. I put on SportsCenter. I got in bed and put on SportsCenter. It'll just collect my thoughts. Yeah. I wonder what the cutoff is for kids watching this,

but I'm sure high school, but I think like 16 and under. I don't know. No way. I mean, I just can't imagine. I let my kids watch just about everything. I wouldn't let my kids go near the show no way

I feel like it should be 21 tell me how small it is god I can't handle it it's fucking the worst it's just the worst what a show

it's the show of the year for me I agree with you I also like I really like the Showtime show with Russell Crowe the loudest voice it's just started

about Roger Ailes episode 2 is yesterday it's 7 episodes he's like it's done he's winning the Emmy with Russell Crowe, the loudest voice. It's just started. About Roger Ailes. Episode two was yesterday. It's seven episodes. He's, like, it's done. He's winning the Emmy. Oh, wow.

He's that good. I haven't, I deliberately didn't watch last night. You guys went upstairs and watched it. I didn't want to. I watched 10 minutes and fell asleep. Yeah, I don't,

I want to watch episode one. I want to watch this one in sequence. I think it's a fascinating story. I was still reeling from staying up late in Vegas and then getting up at eight o'clock to watch the women's team. I'm interested to see, they can't romanticize it, right?

Because he's not a good dude. He's a terrible person. So they can't show- Oh, he is not romanticized. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah. There's no retelling that story

that shines a good light. It's the most cynical way to make money. I got to say that the most shocking thing to me about that show is I learned stuff. I had no idea like how the Fox, I don't watch the Fox News channel. I didn't really know the background for how it started and

you know, what the intentions were and how it was like a race against MSNBC to get their version of a show versus and just like what for lack of a better word, a visionary he their version of a show versus, and just like what, for lack of a better word, a visionary he was with creating a show and being like, there's no show for these people. We have to create it.

Or no network for these people. Right. Why is that? Let's create it for them. Let's go all in on this idea. And it's smart. But they paint all the, it becomes clear pretty quickly what a loathsome guy he's going to become as this goes along.

Right. It, by the way, the show starts with him dead. Oh, okay. Yeah. He's,

well, then I'm in, I want to watch it. Yeah. It's, they're not interested in the hagiography of Roger Ailes. Hallelujah. Uh,

house fairway rolling this week. And then, um, we were, we were at the pre pre British pre British. Yeah. That's the pre preview for the British open. The Scottish opens coming up and this incredible kid,

Matthew Wolf, who just turned, turned pro a month ago, he won the NCAA individual title. Yeah. Barely two months ago. And then came on and won in his first handful of PGA tour events. There are only third one is his,

his third event. His third event. That's exactly right. There are seven golfers in the history of professional golf who have won a professional tournament before turning 21. Every one of those has at least three majors. And this kid is now lined up. I mean, it's a new ascendant star. You left out that he won with an eagle. He won with an eagle on the 18th hole.

To win by a stroke. To win by a single stroke. And it was, you know, it was an impossible putt from the fringe. Yeah, Matthew Wolfe is the homie. The Wolfpack is all over him. Wolfe, two Fs. Two O's. Two O's?

I think it's W-O-O-L-F. Oh, really? I think that's what it is. Wolfpack works? I think it's W-O-O-L-F. Oh, really? I think that's what it is. Wolfpack works better if the spelling's weird. Well, sure, right. Maybe I got it wrong. I need to see it.

But anyway, a great story. And the Open Championship is returning to Northern Ireland. So great golf storylines coming up. House, pleasure as always. Always. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to check them out at ziprecruiter.com slash BS.

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