The Bill Simmons Podcast - Bill Hader on 'Barry' and Common on John Wick, Kanye, Chicago, and Hoops | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons sits down with actor Bill Hader to talk 'Barry,' blending comedy and drama, the NBA Finals, sports-talk shows, and more (2:00). Then Bill talks with rapper/actor Common about 'John Wick,' playing a hitman in multiple movies, rappers crossing over into acting, Chicago, the NBA, Celebrity All-Star games, Kanye West, and more (43:35). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yeah, for the first time, a little basketball break. We got Rosillo coming in a couple days. We are going to hit every single NBA angle possible. But we have the one, the only, Bill Hader. Had to talk Season 2 Barry and a whole bunch of other stuff, a little basketball with him. And then I did an interview with Common, who somehow I'd never had on the podcast, Had to talk season two Barry and a whole bunch of other stuff, a little basketball with him. And then I did an interview with Common, who somehow I'd never had on the podcast, but he finally came on and he was awesome.

This is a really good podcast. I'm almost jealous for you. They haven't heard it yet. Anyway, here it is right now. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. Bill Hader is here. I feel like you were just here, but no, I was just here.

I had, we had to talk about a bunch of stuff. We'll do playoffs first, but I want to break down season two, Barry. Okay. Including an iconic episode that I'm sure you've been asked about a lot. There's some good stories behind it. You've done some interviews, though. I feel like I'm getting sloppy fifths, but it's fine.

No, it's all right. No, it's fine. You'll find something that I haven't spoken about. Yeah. Yeah, you usually do. You've a couple good nuggets. You'll find something that I haven't spoken about. Yeah. Yeah, you usually do. You've been very interview friendly this year. Yeah, it's like you get a lot of, I don't know, a lot of people have been asking me for interviews.

And yeah, I am. You know, it's like good. It's weird when it's your show, you know, like It 2 is about to come out. Yeah. And I'm very excited is about to come out. Yeah. And I'm very excited about that. But there's eight of us. So it's a lot of like when the interviews come up, I'm like, I can't like McAvoy do that.

Right. But when it's your thing, you're kind of like, oh, yeah, I'll go talk to them, you know. And yeah, because you get, you know, I just did Joe Dante's podcast. Joe Dante's podcast? He has a podcast. What is that? It's podcast. Joe Dante's podcast? He has a podcast. What is that? It's great. Yeah.

It's like he did Trailers from Hell. And so it's like a podcast offshoot of that with this guy, Josh Olson, who's great. And, yeah, that was interesting just talking about movies and sitting with the guy who made, you know, Gremlins and the Burbs and all these things. I was like, whoa. I did Terry Gross this week. But yeah, I'm always doing, I don't know, people ask you that and I get excited. Because you know how it is. You always still think, even though people come up to you and go, oh, I like the show or whatever,

there's always more you can be doing when it's your thing. What's Terry Gross' interview style like? What's it like to be? Well, I've never met her. Because he's one of the OGs. I've never met her. I have geez. I've never met her. I have no idea what she looks like. And I've done her show twice.

Yeah. You're, she's in Philadelphia and I'm in LA and, and you're just kind of talking to, it's on the ISDN line. And it's almost like you're being interviewed by a computer. Cause her, the equalizer,

you know, it's like the radio waves, the sound waves go. So it is like talking to a robot where it's like, hey, Bill, how are you? How are you doing? And so it is a bit strange. But she's great. And she usually, yeah, she'll ask questions or are pretty pointed.

That's more of a hang. Yeah, it's like a hang. But then she'll say things like she asked me about my eyes. She's like, are you focused on when you are performing? You have a lot of expressions with your eyes. Is that conscious or not conscious? No one's ever asked me that before. And I'm like, your eyes?

Yeah, she's like, you use your eyes a lot when you act. And I'm like, I do. As opposed to the other actors. Yeah, yeah. I guess it does make sense though cause I remember when Pacino did Son of a Woman

they made the critics for it that were writing positively about it were like Pacino took away his biggest asset yeah he took away his eyes

yeah I didn't even think about it that much most people use their eyes yeah I guess I guess Barry especially season 2

like when Barry goes a little bit evil a couple times. Yeah. You make some crazy psycho faces. Yeah, but I'm not, I'm not even thinking

about it. But yeah, I think because Barry's such a, he's kind of a, you know, internal, introverted character. You have to kind of

maybe do a lot without dialogue or whatever. You know, like when you read the scripts, a lot of times people will go, well, Barry's barely in this, you know, or like, what's he doing or how's he driving things? And sometimes they are right. You know, like episode seven in season two,

when Barry gets an audition, Alec and I, Alec Berg, who co-created the show with me, we came up with that at like the 11th hour. It was one of those things where everyone was going, all right, hey, we're going in. I remember Aida Rogers, our producer, was like, we're going into production. Yeah. What's Barry's story? You guys don't have, you have everything else laid out.

You have the whole Fuchs Cousineau thing in the woods. You have all this stuff. But what is Barry doing in this episode? It was finally we, on when we were prepping episode six, we would go

into his office and just be like, well, what are we going to do? What is he doing? And then, so what if he got an audition? And then we just started laughing because we were like, well, if he got an audition, that would make Kuzno and Sally lose their minds. Right. And so we're like, what if we, it could be funny. It's like Barry gets an audition.

It's like the closest to a sitcom that we ever got. Yeah. Because we had this really dark ending with Fuchs and Kuzno. We had this last frame of Fuchs putting a gun to Kuzno's head after he shows him Janice's body and this whole thing. And well, what if we started it really funny and the silliest that we've ever gotten? That could be interesting. And so then it was just once we figured that out, it actually wrote itself pretty fast. When you're brainstorming that, what's the process?

Are you just sitting in two chairs? Is there a whiteboard? Yeah, there's a whiteboard. You're just erasing stuff constantly? Yeah, there could be a whiteboard. Sometimes we just have a big monitor that has the script up on it and we're writing scenes or usually when it's the white board i'm up at the white board writing out ideas and erasing things and trying to structure a thing and alex sits in a chair kind of you know not saying much and then just judging me just thinking

uh and then when we're typing it's usually Alec typing and me pacing everywhere. And then I do have a funny... So he's the typer. He types, but I'm the whiteboard guy. Yeah, I'm the whiteboard guy. I'm whiteboard guy. And he's typer. And I'm pacing guy. I paced, we moved from Sony to Paramount while we were writing, and we got into a new big – and it was a giant room. And I was pacing, and I got lost. I turned around, and I wasn't in the room anymore. And I was like, hey, guys. Where am I?

Where am I? But, yeah, you know, we'll kind of talk it through and kind of talk about objectives, you know. Big picture. Big picture kind of objectives. And I mean, a good example would be in episode seven, Sally has this great monologue that Sarah Goldberg delivered amazingly. And initially we wrote that as a scene. It was like, okay, so it's good to check in with Sally here because we know in episode eight they have to do this show and that she has all this pressure on her and everything.

And she's flipping out about Barry getting an audition. We know what the Kuzno scene is, but we don't know what the Sally scene is. And so we wrote it as a dialogue of her saying, look, you know, this is bad or whatever. And him responding and things like that. Yeah. But as we mapped it out on the board, I went, yeah, okay, here's what's going on with her. And as I wrote it out, it became instead of one thing, and it was two things, and it became three things, and it was like nine things that she was going through.

And we went, I don't know how to make nine turns in a conversation. And then I said, you know what? Knowing Sarah, if we wrote a two-page monologue addressing all this, she can make it three pages. Yeah. And she'll just, she's amazing at just rattling off what you saw. You know, she can do that incredibly easily,

and it's impressive to watch. She's a theatrically trained actress, so she just nailed it. And I'm like, I bet if we do that and we never cut away from her. And then now it's this impressive scene where you get to see, well, you get to see it work for us in a lot of levels where you go, oh, this is great. You get to understand where Sally's at and actually see that there's some self-awareness there. Then you also get to see what an amazing actress sarah goldberg is and then we also get a massive joke which is when you cut

back to barry and he has that look on his face you know and um so that do you know what i mean it's like we'll kind of map that out and then we'll write it you know and then at some point you stumble into the best version of it yeah and then and then we give it to sarah and then sarah worked on it and then she would email us saying hey guys i was thinking i could add this that and we're like whatever is easy for you to so you could rattle it off so she actually it was two pages and she turned it into like two and a half pages she added stuff to it so she It's funny because I've done a lot of podcasts, obviously, with actors and directors and stuff. And they'll call somebody like, and they were amazing. You'd be like doing, I've never done Liam Neeson, but like Liam Neeson taken two.

And it's like a from Kurt Johnson was amazing. Oh, yeah. And you kind of have to nod and be like, okay, all right, settle down, Liam. But she actually is amazing. She's phenomenal. She's a really good actress. She's an amazing actress. She's one of the best actors, whatever, I've ever worked with.

It's also hard because you have the balance of she's pretending to be this wannabe actress, so you also have to navigate that part, too. She can't 100% be a good actress all the time. You have to be the stumbling good actress who's occasionally great. Well, no, but you know what? be a good actress all the time. You have to be like the stumbling good actress who's occasionally great. Well, no, but you know what? With her, with Sally, I always thought it'd be interesting if Sally was good.

It was kind of the first thing that everybody said when they would read for the part when we did the pilot. Is she good? And I said, no, I think it's more interesting if she is good.

She's just not catching a break. Like a hidden gem? Yeah, she's just not catching a break. You know, that's how it works. You think there's people out here like that? Yeah. There's gotta be, right? Tons who are just great, you know, and they're just not catching a break, you know? That's how it works. You think there's people out here like that? Yeah. There's got to be, right?

Tons who are just great, you know? And they're just not catching a break. I'm Sally. Yeah, I'm a Sally. But, yeah, it was like it'd be more interesting if she was really good. And so then you understood why she was frustrated. But you also, she can't be Meryl Streep either because then that would be no but very few people are yeah but you know it's it's you know I always thought of Sally as being a good actor and she I think is polarizing for

people I think she works well when she's not she's crazy ambitious but I don't I think she works well when she's not being mean she's just being honest right and sometimes that honesty she's just you know like in season one when she's like I should be I should be Macbeth you know I'm the best person in the class yeah and she's not wrong she is yeah you know what I mean well you had that scene in season two when uh when you get mad at each other on the stage. Yeah. And it's super fucking intense. Wait, and at the very end of the season or the one where I'm supposed to choke her

in episode six. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was rough. Yeah. And the irony of that was when we shot that, it was right after Thanksgiving break. And so everyone was in a great mood.

So yeah. I'm going to choke you now. Yeah. I mean, I just remember me and Sarah were joking around that day and Alec directed that episode and he was laughing and we were all having a good time. And then when we saw it cut together, Kyle Ryder, our editor of that episode, he went,

yeah, man, I cut that together. It's really rough. It's really tough, man. And I was like, really? And he's like, yeah, man, it's really sad. You know, Jen, the assistant editor, she's like, she doesn't want to watch it anymore and he's like yeah man it was it's really sad you know Jen the assistant editor she's like she doesn't want to watch it anymore you know and it's like all this and I was like what we were like you know it was just work you know we didn't think about it

and then and then yeah watching it I was like oh yeah no it's it it was played right you know that's the way it should have it should Is that honesty? That was what the whole show was about. Is that honesty should be rough and it's hard to watch. Yeah. And to get to that honesty is really tough for the people to get to that truth of where you, you know, her truth is really terrifying. But, you know, at the end of the season, it's this thing where she kind of sells out and doesn't do that. And that's kind of the story everybody wants. You know, the town wants the nice, you know, strong story, you know.

So it's funny, you know, when I watch episode eight and she kind of, you know, that scene with her in the lobby with her agent played played by Jesse Hodges, is an amazing actress, too. And, you know, I always think of as Fuchs was right. Remember, it's like Fuchs tells him, like, wait, you think the guy did the thing in Braveheart? No, he just got himself killed. Like, people want the stupid Braveheart thing, you know? And he's right, you know? And you see that all the time with the, you know,

things that are kind of lauded or whatever you always go it's not really the actual thing what happened was really rough and i don't know if you would want to watch that right you know what i mean i mean there's some cases that aren't that way but you know what i mean like it's just the if you got into the actual nitty-gritty of it and i've been in those you know, and that's kind of how we came to that storyline is Alec and I would talk about certain things in comedy and wanting to add, you know, what we ended up doing on Barry, you know, which is, oh, the violence should be real or there should be some real rough emotions in this and you would have people go ah i don't think you could be funny after that or i don't really think that'll be i don't think people want to see that it's a bummer you know right that's just a huge bummer you don't want to see that and i always found those things could i always thought those things could co-exist you know and alec did too and i think that's why we do this show because we we like that you know, and Alec did too. And I think that's why we do this show because we, we like that, you know, but, um, I mean, that was like the, the Pulp Fiction secret sauce when it came out and it was so violent,

but then there are these funny parts and people didn't really know what to do and there was no structure to it. And it was just so original. No, that was a whole other, yeah, whole other thing. I mean, that wasn't the first movie that did that. No, no, but it is like. It revived it, I felt like. Yeah, it did, you know.

I mean, it's also just having some sort of an emotional weight to it, you know, like emotional consequences to things in a comedy, you know. I mean, there was a version of Barry that's like a very glib kind of treats violence in a funny way because you don't want it to be a bummer. So it's like, well, we got to keep everything light and fun. He's a wacky hitman. He's a wacky hitman. And you see that a lot, you know? And I think because Alec and I so much of Barry, the emotional stuff, you know, either comes from people we know or things that we've experienced where we go, well, why don't we try that? And they go, we'd rather have this thing, you know? Yeah.

You know, it's like, we'd rather have a sanitized version of it that'll make a lot of money because people want to watch that. They don't want to watch the bummer. Can we talk about the crazy episode? Yeah. It was an all timer yeah you texted me after you watched it it was a fucking all timer and i it was one of those how the fuck did they do that episodes which don't really happen on tv shows unless it's like

game of thrones or something yeah and this was, it just came out of nowhere. I also felt like it was both an advantage and a disadvantage that you were following Game of Thrones for some of these episodes because you just got buried by Game of Thrones. But at the same time, that's what I loved about that episode was I wasn't prepared for it. Yeah, no, that was nice was that we were following Game of Thrones, but there were those people, the amount of people were like, yeah, Game of Thrones would end, and I would start washing the dishes

and picking up after my Game of Thrones party, and then I'd be like, wait, what's this show? And I was like, well, that's cool, thanks. You probably got a bunch of drive-by fans, right? Oh, our numbers went up big after, like, Game of Thrones. We started following Game of Thrones. Our numbers went way up.

I would imagine. But, no, Alec and I went to the screening of that Battle of Winterfell episode the night that the Ronnie and Lily episode aired of Barry.

And it was just hilarious because we were just watching this giant battle scene. And I'm like, we have to fucking follow this. Jesus. And I was just hilarious because we were just watching this giant battle scene. And I'm like, we have to fucking follow this. Jesus. And I was like, great, we're following this.

That was one of the great HBO nights, though. Then a little girl jumps on the, what do you call it, the knight? The dailies. Yeah, yeah. With a knife and stabs him. And I'm like, there's a little girl with a knife jumping on a dude. We have that in our episode. I was like, what are the chances?

But no. I forgot that was all the same night. That's like one of the great HBO nights. Yeah, I know. I mean, it was crazy. So that happened. And then we were at the party afterwards. And it was nice, though, being at the party because people started texting both of us and going oh my god that

episode holy shit and um you're in a sweet spot with the show because people love it but you haven't gotten that you know fuck barry fuck that show yeah we're over it you're like in the perfect position yeah that seems always right i always try to keep that my whole career in that position where you just you try just enough. Yeah, it's just like I don't know him that well to hate him. No, but yeah, it's like you're the guy from the thing. I can't hate the guy from the thing just yet. But that so that episode for people who didn't see it. It was amazing.

Barry goes... I forget the initial reason why you're at the guy's house. Even though I've seen it three times. So Loach, the cop who's been... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's been tailing Barry and using Fuchs to get info on Barry, you think he's going to arrest him for killing his partner. But instead he says, I want you to kill the,

the, the guy who's dating my ex wife. So his name, Ronnie Proxton. It's a flip. So you go to the house or Barry goes to the house, the house to kill Ronnie. I tell Ronnie,

who's this kind of stoner guy. Hey, you know, I'm not going to kill you. This guy wants me to kill you. I don't want to. But then he walks up and goes to Chicago. He's got taekwondo trophies everywhere.

Yeah, the guy's a taekwondo. I find out he's like one of the best taekwondo guys in the world. Yeah, that was a problem. Yeah, and when I wrote it, it was funny because we didn't really table this one. We didn't really do it in the room. I kind of went off and like in the outlines for the season, it was like episode five.

And I think I just wrote like, you know, shit goes down. Right. You know, Loach dies or something, you know. And then I pitched them the idea and everybody was like, all right. But it was, as Alex said, my solo album in the middle of the... But I kind of went off and wrote it. Came back. This was like your bring on the night

sting? Yeah, this is my... This was my... Yeah. Just so you know, I did this little thing on the side. Couple sounds. We wouldn't use this. But it's like, I had,

when I was writing it, it was a fun thing to write Barry trying to convince this guy, you know, this thing. And then you go, okay,

they go to get the bags and you go, well, what's the worst thing that he could see when he goes to get the bags? They're just like, oh,

what if he has a Taekwondo trophy? And then it's like, what if the whole room's filled with Taekwondo trophies? And I was like, oh, that's good. So then a fight ensues, which just, I got to give credit to this guy,

Wade Allen, our stunt coordinator, and Daniel, who plays Ronnie. Yeah. He's in a ton of stuff. He's like the Matrix. He's almost, he's one of, I think he was an agent in all the Matrix movies. He's the guy that, you remember Matrix 2 when they had that big fight on the freeway? Yeah. He's the guy that jumps and lands on the hood of the car and smashes it and it goes into slow motion.

I think that's Daniel. He's an atomic blonde. He's in all these things. One of the nicest guys in the world. So you're sketching out this whole fight scene. Yeah. Yeah, with Wade. And I just said I would like it to be one shot.

But you haven't done a lot of those, though. No. We have to remember, like, sequences of moves and punches. Yeah. I just wanted it to feel kind of just like one. I directed the episode too so i just i wanted it to feel kind of just this meandering um camera and uh the dp palo y dobro initially i was going to have them follow the camera was going to follow them everywhere and she said oh it could

be interesting if they just kind of come in and out of frame because it makes it a little bit more you're kind of uh observing it and yeah more you know and it seems like you're the point i always think of that shot is you're almost from the point of view of someone telling them to stop you know guys guys come on you know and then they're gonna and then they go off this way and you don't want to look where they fell and then you look over oh they're on the ground now you know yeah and um so uh yeah i mean wade allen it was really cool i kind of told him what the shot was and then he choreographed a fight specifically for that shot so it would play all out to camera so all the moves and everything very specific for the shot so it's like the shot came first the camera move move came first, and then he went, oh, okay, well, here's what we'll do.

We'll go, we'll just play it against this wall. So it ends with him basically getting a broken trachea. Yeah, Barry snaps his throat, and then you think it's over, but then he goes in and he gets nunchucks. And then he has two nunchucks, and Daniel can do that, obviously, you see it. He starts doing nunchucks. And then I found it so funnyucks, and Daniel can do that, obviously. You see it. He starts doing nunchucks.

And then I found it so funny that when we were in the edit, Jeff Buchanan, the editor of that episode, I said, can you just double it? So if you watch it, he does it once, and then it cuts to Barry. And when it cuts back, that's the exact same shot again because I just thought it was really funny. I was like, and he goes, what, you just want him to sit there and just like, yeah.

I was like, yeah, he's like he's just want him to sit there and just like, yeah. I was like, yeah. He's like, he's showing off. He's trying to intimidate him. So Barry just is sitting there watching him do that. And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, alright. And then he, yeah, so he attacks him with the nunchucks and then he chokes.

He finally dies from his trachea. So now it's over. It's done. So then Barry's like, fine. He didn't want to kill him. He had to kill him. He feels terrible. He goes to leave, and then his little daughter's there. Ronnie's daughter, Lily, is walking in,

and hopefully the audience goes, oh, no, Barry's going to have to kill a kid. The audience went that way. I can tell you my wife and I felt that way. So the girl leaves. She goes, Dad? And she runs out. Barry goes to leave, stops, puts his mask back on, goes to find her.

He says, hey, I'll, you know, little girl, you know, I could take you to Chicago. I could do whatever. But he can't. She saw his face. And then he thinks she escaped out a window when actually she's behind him. And she then is like a taekwondo master and she's like an animal she's like an animal yeah she's like a wild animal and she beats the living shit out of barry so how'd you find this person um her name is jesse her her parents are uh stunt performers and they're uh wade allen

my stunt coordinator was during season one came up to to me and goes, hey, man, just so you know, I have, there's this little girl named Jessie. She's the Zion of young stunt people. Yeah, he showed me this video of her on a roof of a house. And she ran along the roof of the house and she jumps onto a moving car as it goes off. And I went, whoa. He goes, yeah, she can do taekwondo she could do this and he showed me a commercial she did where she was in a go-kart and i was like where she was driving a go-kart yeah wow that looks cool and um he's like yes i don't know if you ever i don't know why but just so you know she exists and she's pretty cool and her parents are rad and blah, blah, blah. So then I had that in my head.

So when I was writing this, like, oh, he kills Ronnie. That sucks. And then, oh, man, what if there was a little girl there? And then, you know, she escapes. Yeah. And then I went, well, what if there's a little girl and she was this girl Wade told me about and she beats the shit out of Barry. And then in writing it, she became like an animal. It was more out of like, you know, that what I, in my mind, because she was a stunt person, I didn't know she was an actress.

I thought, well, maybe if she's more of an animal, that's an easier thing to play instead of something else. And then she turned out to be this great actor as well. And you had a mask on so you could just have a stuntman playing you for most of that, right?

That was totally by design. That was smart. That was like, because I got to be able to watch the shots and I'm not going to have Daniel, like, kicking me in the head.

Actually, later on, he almost kicked me in the head. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We needed another mask. So then that goes, later on, he almost kicked me in the head. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We needed to have the mess. So then that goes. Then she, you have that shot

where she climbs the house. Well, she stabs me. She gets away. Me and Steven Root have to go find her. Yeah. And then we see her and then she runs up.

Yeah, we see her on the side. She climbs the tree and jumps on the house. Was that CGI'd? The tree isn't there. The tree is CG. That was, it's like on the side. She climbs the tree and jumps on the house. Was that CGI'd? The tree isn't there. The tree is CG. That was, it's like a green trunk. Okay.

It's like a green screen trunk with little things. It was like a rock climbing wall, kind of. And she ran up that, and then VFX put in the tree. Oh, that's cool. And so, yeah. And then she's on a big, she was on wires for safety. So when Alec and I showed up, there was this giant tower with, you know, wines going down to her and all this stuff and people, everyone in that neighborhood,

like they weren't allowed to like leave for work that day or they had to go park down the street because we had the whole thing. So you guys are those assholes. Yeah, we were those assholes. I hate those people. I know. And Alec was like, this is all because of this. You want this one shot, asshole.

Yeah. I know. I know. Sorry. I'm sorry, man. But I did. I felt really responsible. And then also, every time she would go on the roof of that house, I'm in the shot.

I'm sitting in the passenger seat and Fuchs gets out. Yeah. And so I have to act like I'm out of it. But I actually had a monitor in my lap. So I'm sitting in the passenger seat and Fuchs gets out. Yeah. And so I have to act like I'm out of it. But I actually had a monitor in my lap. So I'm acting sick. And he goes out this way by the monitor that I'm looking at. So I could watch the shot. And every time they would do it, my stomach was in knots.

Because I was like, oh, God, I have an 11-year-old girl running up and running for this house. Well, she's Zion, though. It sounds like she's the prodigy. So she's Zion. And she was able to do it. Jesus. And it was so sweet. And then later, there's a scene where she jumps on the roof of the car,

and then she's able to do this move where she gets through the back of the car, and she bites Steven Root on the face. Right. And we have a little dialogue scene while she's attached to his face. And she was really, she was really cute. I said, um, cause initially she was like,

so I, do I just bite him? And then I just am like, you know, wrestling. I go, no, I go,

have you ever had a dog bite you? And she went, yes. I go, you know, when a dog kind of latches onto you and it kind of like goes dead eyed. Yeah. She went,

yes. Like she got so excited. She goes, I know exactly. I've had that happen. Jesus. And it was really sweet. She's like,

I know what you mean. And I was like, yeah, do that. And then just, you know, just kind of look off dead eyed,

you know, and breathe, breathe a lot, you know. So then after that, it ends up in the grocery store and there's another fight. Yeah,

I get to the grocery store thinking I'm all good. That show's just going for half an hour. And then I grocery store and there's another fight. Yeah, I get to the grocery store thinking I'm all good. That show's just going for half an hour. And then I turn over and there's Ronnie isn't dead. He's getting a neck brace in the same thing. And that's when Daniel almost kicked me in the head because he walked up to me and he did like a roundhouse and I had to duck and I wanted it all in one shot where I duck and he hits the stuff and I get up and I'm like,

come on, don't be an asshole and all this. And Daniel, though, I say that I think I was nervous because he showed me. It was amazing. He went full roundhouse, full speed and went and just stopped right there and then could go on this side, that side. He goes, see, I could go here. I could go here. I will not kick you.

You'll be fine, man. You'll be fine. Don't worry. Don't worry. So I was like, okay. But one of the nicest guys in the world um and our favorite guy actually was a stunt guy it was matt damon stunt double is in that he's the guy that he headbutts the guy who's stacking the things that's matt damon's longtime stunt double and alec loved talking to him because

he had a really thick boston accent oh, really? And Alec went to Harvard and lived in Boston for a while. So Alec was just like, oh man, I love this guy. And he was just, I mean, those are the things no one will find funny, but in the edit bay,

our favorite, the thing that made us laugh the hardest is when he comes up and he goes, hey guys, come on. And then Daniel headbutts him and he goes, like that. And he did that on purpose

to make us laugh. He went, like that. And he did that on purpose to make us laugh. He went, like that. And we fell down laughing when we shot it. Yeah. And actually, the hardest we laughed while we were shooting it is when Loach gets it. When Loach, he shoots Daniel in the face

and he thinks he's dead and then he goes to shoot Barry and then Daniel comes back up like the Terminator and he turns around he does this roundhouse kick well my favorite thing was John who plays Loach I said turn around and I kind of saw it as like he turns around goes well you know he's startled but instead he played it where he turned around he went like how the fuck are you still right like give me a break and then swings around, and that's a dummy head. So we had a dummy head that Daniel could really just kick really hard. Yeah.

And he kicked it clear across the aisles. It went, like, 40 yards. It just flew off. And Wade and Gavin Kleintop, the first AD, we fell over laughing. I mean, we were also, it was like five in the morning, but we were like losing our minds laughing every time. We did it like three times where he had to kick the head. It's a great episode.

Is that the Emmy episode? I don't know. I think so. Yeah. That's our producer, Amy, does all that stuff. I think it was, I don't know. That one is one of those, you know, when it's on, I'll be like, oh, this one. Okay, I'm back in.

It's weird, though, because now people watch that one as like, you know, people go, oh, you got to see this if they haven't seen the show. And so they'll watch that first. And I go, oh, the show's not like this at all. Right. It's like starting Sopranos by watching Pine Barrens or something, you go, oh, this isn't what the show is. There's all these other characters and a lot, you know, and so it kind of I know it seems like I'm being, you know, whatever. But it is best if you watch it in order because the fact that it kind of comes out of nowhere and is a different feeling adds to the experience of watching it, I think. Yeah, I would hope people did that.

Yeah, but a lot of people aren't. The thing is, those are always my favorite. The curveball episode is always like, if you're going to have a great show, you just have to have them. Do you have a finish line for this show in your head? Yeah, yeah. I mean, Alec and I talk about it. We don't know when it lands, really, how many seasons or whatever. But we have talked about— 13, maybe?

No, I don't know about that. I mean, Alec—the problem is, Alec does Silicon Valley. And I just—I mean, he's—I just don't know how much he could do it. That show's ending this year, though. Yeah. I just—I worry about his health because he does, man. That guy just ending this year, though. Yeah. I just, I worry about his health because he does, man. That guy just

busts his ass. He just works really hard. So, hopefully he'll be, he'll be, you know, I want, he needs like,

he needs like six solid months of doing nothing. Did you go to finals games before we go? No, I wasn't able to go

to any finals games. I feel like you've given up on basketball now that OKC's window is closed. No, not really. Well, now it's Clippers now for me. You switched? No, I like OKC, but now I live here. I'm going to go to Clippers games. We get Kawhi.

Do we? Potentially. Maybe. I saw that he had Home Depot boxes. I saw that picture of that he had Home Depot boxes. I saw that picture of him with the Home Depot boxes. That could be cool. He's actually done a nice job of, like, this whole last year played out perfectly for him because he has no personality. And I say that endearingly.

Like, you wouldn't be able to even really describe him in a sentence, and yet he's become this man of mystery. He wins the title. It's like perfectly played. He's got a New Balance sponsorship. Who the fuck wears New Balance for basketball? It makes sense for him. Everything makes sense.

What do you think? And you know way better than I do because you're also the guy that was like, oh, no, the Raptors are going to win. I was like, what? I didn't feel that way until the finals. But what are the chances of Clippers getting Kawhi? I think they're excellent. Because he wants to be back in L.A.?

He wants to live in L.A. Yeah. I think these guys just look at it like, I would like to live in L.A., so I will find one of the LA teams and I will play for them and that's it but I might be wrong. You think it was all the way he also came into Toronto too that it wasn't

you know what I mean like that's where he would rather be his Clippers like he never felt like Toronto was his home. Well I think that's their best advantage for him right that they won a title with him and he's part of this whole family and the fan base like reveres him. And if you're just getting that day after day,

you start thinking, eh, it's not that cold. And you start talking yourself into it. Yeah, that's my fear. Like, when he won, I've, when they won, the way, like, cause I had my kids that night, so I was looking at the game and they wanted to watch their thing and then I was going, I was like trying to look

at my phone. I was like, ah, Jesus. And it was down to the wire and I was so they wanted to watch their thing, and then I was trying to look at my phone. I was like, ah, Jesus. And it was down to the wire, and I so badly wanted to see what was going on. And then how I found out they won was my friend Jake Bergman texted me, like, tough. That sucks, man. He's going to stay in Toronto now. And I was like, ah, shit, they won. Damn it. Damn it.

Damn. I don't know, man. But there is something kind of cool about the Clippers. I would love, don't get me wrong, if they got Kawhi Leonard, that'd be amazing. But I also just like them as like a scrappy group of, like, I just like them. The underachiever.

Yeah, it's about the six men. It's just like, yeah, they're just like, when they won, when they beat Golden State those two times, I mean, that was awesome. It would be funny if TV had the version of what the NBA has where it's like, July 1st, we'll find out

if Bill Hader is going to stay on Barry. Yeah, I know. Or go. Or will he go? We're going to see. We'll find out. Yeah, I'll do my own decision.

You know, just me. And still, Stephen A. Smith is there for some reason going like, I knew he would leave.

He never cared about Barry. He never cared about Barry. He never cared about HBO. I have it on good authority that he hated HBO. I try. Yeah. What's the guy who's a rapper, boxer guy or Max? Max Kellerman. Yeah.

He's funny. There's that one clip of him. He's like, quiet, Leonard. He's better than Kobe Bryant. And then you just see like Stephen A. There's that one clip of him. He's like, quiet, Leonard. He's better than Colby Bryant. And then you just see, like, Stephen A. Smith's head explode. One of the things I really admire about that show. I just don't know how real it is sometimes.

I don't know. You tell me. I'm not, like, a fan. I've gone in and out. I've watched, like, a couple of episodes of it. I think it's theater. But what's crazy about it is they're talking like this, right?

But it's just these three minute monologues and then like you finish and it goes to me and there's always like this dramatic pause. Listen. Listen, Bill Hader. And then it goes into the three minute thing. But they use dramatic pauses

really well in that show. Yeah, it's like Brecht. It's some sort of like, yeah, like old, like, yeah, just weird monologue theater. Yeah, I don't know, man. And then they'll cut to the other guy, and the other guy's like, it's almost like he's acting. It's like you in the Barry episode where you have to play off the log monologue. Yeah. You just got to like.

Just stare and listen. Yeah, it'd be like if it just went split screen while Sally's yelling at me. And I'm just like. No, you should watch it. There's a clip of Max Kellerman saying that Kawhi is better than Kobe. And you just see like the reaction made me laugh so hard of just D.J. Smith. And I forget who else he has on. But I see him.

I think he gets out of his chair and starts pacing around like he's so mad but I yeah I kind of I love how they break these old baskets like Kendrick Perkins is making the rounds yeah yeah he's always on the jump yeah they find

these old ones and it's like alright this guy I like the jump I like her Rachel Nichols yeah I think I like. I like her, Rachel Nichols. Yeah, I think she's great. I like how they weave in different, Rachel Nichols. Yeah,

she's great. And Kendrick Perkins and they feel like it's like a part audition. Yeah. Because they don't know, they're on a 10-day contract basically,

so they really have to throw it around and be like, well, Kevin Durant has no heart. Scotty Pippen's pretty chill though. Scotty Pippen's on there. He doesn't care. He's just kind of... If he's a long-term contract, you're going to be like... Scotty Pippen's pretty chill though Scotty Pippen's on there he doesn't care

he's just gonna he's a long term contract you're gonna be like Scotty Pippen's just kinda like no I remember him he was great I remember

yeah he's like oh this game was great I loved him he was great he's like well you'd have to work a little hard for that you know

everyone else is being really hardcore and he just always seems like yep the flu game. I don't know how Michael did that. And I was like, man, Scottie Pippen is just, man, if I'm flying, yeah, I want him to be the pilot of any plane that I'm on. You know, he's just so chill.

The draft was like that last night. We were taping this on a Friday where when I did the draft of two years, I was like pretty candid and maybe I was probably too candid, but I was like, you know, like, I don't know why they did that. That was a terrible pick.

Right. Well, it's like the greatest, the kid's greatest moment of his life. Yeah. I'm the asshole who's up there. Like, ah,

that was too early. Yeah. Thought he was going to go later. What the hell happened? Just get 40 family members watching. It is tough. So you do have that in the back of your head, but I just feel bad for Knicks fans.

They just got... I mean, you don't feel bad for Knicks fans ever. No, I actually do feel bad for Knicks fans. I mean, RJ is good, but that's exciting. But they thought they were going to get Durant, and then... It never works out for them. It never works out. They're the new Red Sox.

We won the World Series. Well. We won the World Series. You won the World Series last year. What do you mean? No. After we won, we passed our baggage to the Knicks. Oh, I see. And they became... Yeah, it's true.

I mean, it's true. It's like... The Laker fans are really... Those are the ones I have an issue with right now. Because the Laker fans are like... We got AD and then we got LeBron. We traded 38 first round picks for AD. Who's the man now? Yeah. Oh yeah. Well,

we have them. It's like, yeah, you traded like your entire future for forever. Yeah. It's just weird. I don't know. Yeah. There's a lot. There's people think Kawhi is going to go to the Lakers, which I think is bananas. That would be so lame. I just read a thing about that and I was like, that would be bananas. That makes no sense to me. That would be so lame. All right. Well, we should mention you're gonna be on the rewatchables yeah we're not gonna say what movie okay but that's the other reason you're here because we're about to tape it I'm very

excited about it me too I wonder if people guess the movie just yeah it'd be so weird if they guess like yeah some for Cinemosefire Cinemosefire right yeah that's what I was gonna think Cinemosefire hater Cinemosefire totally it's fuckingemose Fire, right? Yeah, that's what I was going to think. Cinemose Fire. Hater.

Cinemose Fire. Totally. It's fucking great, man. I'll break it down. Break it down. Breaking it down. What a cast. So we'll look for you in that.

Thanks for stopping by, as always. Thanks, man. I love being here. Hey, it's summertime, and that means it's time to get outside and enjoy the weather with some crisp, refreshing Bud Lights. Oh, yeah.

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realenoughtogetaway for more details. Alright, I don't know how this hasn't happened before, but he's here. One of my son's favorite people, Common. Hey man, what's happening? You're the guy from John Wick for him. He was so stunned when

I told him you also did music. He couldn't believe it. Well, I mean, I actually feel like sometimes honored that, you know, I know the kids, some of them don't know my music or don't even know I do music. Well, he's 11. Oh, well, yeah. But yeah, I mean, John Wick, that's like the first crazy action movie

I think I let him watch. Oh, really? Yeah. I still feel like your character's alive. I'm not convinced he's dead. He is alive. We never saw him actually die. He is alive. They've let me know that he's alive, but they didn't put me in three,

which I was really disappointed because- Me too. When I saw the storyboards for three, I was like, this is going to be incredible. And I just had a fun time doing John Wick 2 and working with Keanu and Chad, who direct the whole world. And just the people that come up to me about John Wick. Like you said, I'm reaching your 11-year-old son who never knew who the hell Common was. But now he's like, okay, that guy, that's the guy from John Wick.

And so many people come up to me actually at the airport. Like, man, I love you and John Wick. And like so many people coming to me actually at the airport, like, man, I love you and John Wick. You working tonight? You doing lines for the movie? Yeah, exactly. That kind of reminded me because one of my friends

always is saying that line to me, like, yo, yeah, you working tonight? I mean, that's honestly one of the best action movie scenes of all time. When he comes out after killing,

after kind of kills the lady, but he finishes it. But then John Wick comes down, crazy nightclub. There's like a thousand people there. Like that scene is just, and then you kind of size each other up and then it's on.

Then it's on. It's just incredible. It's such a good 10 minutes. Dude, I'm super like geeked and honored to be a part of that franchise because I do think it's the apex level of action movies. I agree. And it's entertaining because honestly, I hadn't seen the first one until I was really given the opportunity to potentially be a part of the second. So I watched it.

Yeah. And I was like, from the beginning, I was like, wait, I really love this movie. It was something just, it's something so entertaining and what I love about movies. And the fact that it has a fun element to it, it's got not even a lot of suspense, but it's the action that is really enticing. And I'm usually not an audience member that just likes action and just action but it's done so well man i have to say so i'm grateful you you feel that that's some great 10 minutes of of action well it's a great 10 minutes but then it has the it it kicks up again

and it's got that awesome scene that ends up in the train where they're kind of stealth shooting at each other because there's people around just like doing these quick shots dude like that and then i love train fights because i always try to think about what would i do if i was on the train and these two dudes just started a high level fighting karate knife fight what would i watch it or would i be like hightailing it out of there would you what do you think you would do it depends how depends how far away I was. Yeah. If I was like on the other

end of the car, I might actually like kind of get it, kind of watch maybe 15 seconds of it. Yeah, but you know, people at that level of fighting are going to pull out

a weapon at some point. Yeah, at some point. Yeah, you don't want to get hit by a stray or whatever. Yeah, but that scene, we actually, you know, that was the fun and the hard work of John Wick.

Like, we trained for, like, months. Like, I would say up to four or five months of training. And Keanu does all his own shit in these movies, which is incredible. Yeah, he definitely, and he does it. I mean, I had to do it. I love doing it, too. Like, that was one of the things I told the director when I first was getting, you know, the conversation we had for me to be a part of the film, I was like, look, man, I'm going to work as hard.

I'm going to be one of the best in your films, you know. Yeah. Because I just have that work ethic just coming from sports, you know, me wanting to be an athlete. Like, it just, it's instilled in me. So we were, man, we were filming those scenes at like four and five in the morning. Oh, really? Which you really got to be alert because we worked out the scenes and then our director, Chad, he'll change it up on you in a minute. So it's like when you have to be super aware, you have to have a heightened awareness when you're doing fight scenes or you're just going to catch a lot of punches to the face.

Oh, yeah. I didn't think of that. Or kicks or whatever. Because you're remembering a whole script of like, I punch you, you duck, you come back, then I go under. And it's like eight things, right? Man, it's like 23 things. You know, if you look at the course of, especially a long fight scene, it's like, it's such a

long process in establishing and creating it. But I gained a whole new respect for action films just being a part of them. I mean, I always loved the Lethal Weapons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like Bruce Willis, you know, Die Hard. And Beverly Hills Cop is fun, but action. But that level, like the Jason Bour and and the john wicks of the world i gained a whole new respect and participate in those movies i did when i was at grantland i wrote

a piece called the action hero championship belt about like who was like the top action hero almost like almost like nba mvp how it's like lebron and now it's kawaii yeah who would you who was the top who was your top four? If you had a mountain rush. Well, I mean, the 80s were the best. That's what we grew up with. Where we had like Stallone

and Schwarzenegger and all those dudes and then Bruce Willis, the diehard, he takes over and it just kind of keeps going. And then last decade, it kind of died for a few years.

Yeah, it did. And then Liam Neeson brought it back with Taken. Taken. And now we're in another good run, but I never thought Keanu would be like the championship belt holder. But I feel like he is.

He is definitely on that Mount Rushmore. If not the great. I have to give him a lot because it's not many times that the stunt double is actually doing anything. And he really is really good with martial arts. And he's a little older. I mean, he's in his early 50s now, which that's no joke. It's no joke. To carry that kind of athletic burden in those movies.

And I saw his body, like him in pain, but really still staying true to the fight. And his work ethic is right phenomenal um when he uh i'm trying to think what oh he was in the replacements oh yeah he was a football qb oh yeah and then but he was also a football qb in point break oh man but he was actually like i don't know pretty good qb the funny thing about, you've been a hit man in four movies. Yeah, yeah. We did a podcast about John Wick 2, and I was researching it, and it was like, this is the fourth time Common's been a hit man. You might have the record, the hit man record.

Yo, man, I got to say, I love it. I mean, for me, the first film I was in, Smoking Aces, I was a hit man. Yeah. And it was like, as an actor, because I really, I mean, I know I'm a musician, but I'm an actor too. And the same passion and love I have for music, I have for acting. So I had to break through the walls of what people would stereotype me to do and what they knew of Common. So I was able to get that hitman role audition that was the first role I got a call back and then I got the role and it was like

man I was super happy because the character was different from me he wasn't like that I'm not a hitman in real life so I wanted to be able to look menacing though yeah I mean you have a way of like your face can just kind of be blank, but there seems like there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. That's a good hit man look. Yeah. I will say I have a couple of crazy things going on in my head,

but overall I'm a very loving, you know, I'm a free spirit to loving individual. But I mean, I'm from the South side of Chicago. So I've seen and been around enough to know things. So when my friends did see me in Smoke and Aces, they was like, oh man, you just doing what, you know, you representing West

Chicago. I was like, no, acting has a lot more dimension to that. And one of the things I always wanted to bring to any character was the dimensions of life. Like it's hit men to have emotions. It's hit men to have daughters it's hit men to have daughters it's hit men that you know like like jazz music it's like you you can't stereotype each person um or each character so well i mean that's the best part of the whole john wick to stretch when they end up in the continental they're not allowed to try to kill each other anymore they're having a drink yeah it's like i mean it's it's such a strange world. It's so good.

It's a fun, it's like, where did you come up with this stuff? So good. Yeah. And I think, you know,

it's a franchise that actually continues to grow. Like, each one is getting better. So who was the first rapper to cross over and start acting?

Was it Tupac? Tupac, I think, was the first. And Juice? Juice. I think he was the first. I feel like he was like? Tupac, I think was the first. And Juice? Juice. I think he was the first. I feel like he was like the first one of this. He was the first rapper to act and people were like

Yeah. Yo, this is serious. Maybe Ice Cube and Boys in the Hood though too. I don't remember which one. Yeah, you know what? I think it was. Nah, those were right around the same time. They were around the same time. Tommy, Google this. Was before Juice? Oh yeah, so same time. They were around the same time, but Juice. Tommy, Google this. Was before Juice?

Oh yeah, so Ice Cube. So he's the first one. He was the first one, but when people saw Tupac, they saw something like, yo, this dude is an actor.

Like, they were like, this dude could really act. I mean, out of the 700 bummers about him not being around anymore, I was always interested to see what kind of acting career he would have had. He was one of the ones.

And above the rim, which I love. Right. I even went the nine-foot rims. I forgive the nine-foot rims. It's fine. Even for the crazy guy playing basketball by himself. That guy should have been in a mental institution. But Tupac's

so good in that as the bad guy like he's really genuinely menacing and then he's in higher learning and there's all these dimensions to that performance it's like holy shit this guy's like a great actor no the dude was you know he was a consummate artist to be honest and his acting was you know it's certain artists to me, musicians that you see on the screen and you see, man, this dude is an actor. Like,

like Mos Def is one of those for me. Like, I saw him in some, in theater and in films and was like, this dude is really great.

I think obviously Will Smith is one, Queen Latifah. Yeah, he never, Will Smith never gets credit for he was actually a rapper first.

Man, I mean. He doesn't get mentioned in the crossovers. He should, man. He deserves it because hip hop was his base. I mean, they were a respected group. You know, he brought like a humor to hip hop. He brought a fun. But he had joints.

Like Summertime was a joint that everybody rocked. And this song called Brand New Funk. And, you know, even, you know, parents just don't understand it wasn't like the joint, but we still like, just liked Will Smith. We liked Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff. So- I remember seeing him in Six Degrees of Separation

and being so excited he was in like a real- That was- Independent movie. And then when he did Bad Boys the next year, that was like counting down the weeks. It was like, hey, am I Martin Lawrence in the same movie? They're going to be cops? Oh, my God.

Yeah. But I think Six Degrees actually changed the trajectory of his career, catapulted, because everybody had to take him serious at that point. Between that and the Uncle Phil episode when the dad left. Yeah, when the dad left. Those two things. It was like, oh, Will Smith's a really good actor. You know, it's funny you brought that episode up. My trainer, well, I don't want to put him on the spot, but I guess I am.

He just was telling me he was watching that episode when the father left. And it made him tear up. Like, oh, the Fresh Prince. Yeah. He was like, yo. All these years later. You too, right? Yeah. Well, they just had, yo. All these years later. You too, right? Yeah.

Well, they just had the 25th anniversary of that episode, and it was, like, on social media the whole day. And it was one of those things that I actually think it was, like, one of the most important, like, three minutes of the decade in TV. Yeah. Because I think it affected, affected like two generations of black men who watched that and were like,

you know, it just resonated in a totally different way. Well, that's what, I mean, first of all, that's to the writers and to, you know,

that whole cast, but to Will, that's why I give Will a lot of respect because, you know, it takes, you have to convey that emotion

for us to feel it. For somebody to cry watching it, then you have to convey that emotion for us to feel it. For somebody to cry watching it, then you got to be bringing some truth. Well, and he also, he ad-libbed, there was some section in the thing where he went off the script. Did he? And when he, like, when the character really got upset, like, that wasn't in there. And then Uncle Phil, the guy who played him, just kind of rode with it. And, like, I don't think the uncle phil the guy who played him just kind of rode with it yeah and like the i don't think the hug was in the script either so they just kind of got caught up in it

and it was like apparently magical well i think you know that's some of the best moments in art is like yeah is when things are not planned and the moment just happens and it's a truthful moment and you know to be able to go off script because you're feeling it is something that's super important for any actor. Honestly, an entertainer, artist. Shoot, I mean, we're in sports. You know, you can't just only if the play is not there, you got to create something. And I think it's a life to that. And it really allows you to know that you're definitely in the moment.

I heard Denzel in doing Malcolm X, he just went on doing some of the speeches. Spike just said, keep rolling. Because he went way beyond what the script was going and was just speaking. And I understand that feeling. Because there's moments as an actor where I've been able to just be in the moment and improv and it just brings so much life to a scene. I had Spike and Denzel on this podcast

in the last year and I got them to tell their versions of the story when he played Ray Allen and he got game. Oh, yeah. And he was supposed to lose the game 10-0 and that's what Ray Allen thought

was going to happen. And then Denzel scored the first four and started talking supposed to lose the game 10-0, and that's what Ray Allen thought was going to happen. And then Denzel scored the first four and started talking shit to him and ad-libbing all this stuff, and Ray Allen was getting mad. Real Ray Allen was getting mad. Like, what the fuck's going on? Why am I down 4-0?

Are you filming this? And it got really heated, but Denzel was so fired up that he pulled that on him. But that was a good ad-lib story. I mean, but that's a great ad-lib. But I mean, from my experience of working with Denzel in American Gangster, I love that, you know, it was really a good lesson for me. That was only my second film.

So I was watching one of the greatest ever. And just how he was able to not only improv, but just he created the dynamics of us being his brothers. the greatest ever and just how he was able to not only improv, but just he created the dynamics of us being his brothers like off camera. And that was, you know, him staying in character was like a good lesson for me because I actually was doing the same thing to a certain degree. And I think, you know, for certain actors, it benefits you to do it. So I could see, and I could see how Denzel will, you know, do certain things to spark that emotion. Because I can remember we were filming American Gangster and Denzel was, Idris Elba's character was like, that was an enemy of Denzel's character, Frank Lucas.

And Denzel was supposed to put a gun to his head. But in real life, he wasn't supposed to pull the trigger because, you know, the gun was just too close to his head. But I think he did pull the trigger. It's just like. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I mean, obviously they checked the guns. Yeah. This is like, oh my God. I mean, obviously they checked the guns. Yeah, yeah.

But just the pressure of, you know, because- Yeah, the recoil. Yeah. I have a scar on my chest right now from recoil of the movie Suicide Squad. I was in Suicide Squad. And because my character, they didn't even keep it in the movie, my character had to shoot himself and it blew his head off, basically. But the recoil kept going down my shirt,

so it burned my chest to the point where I got to keep it. But my point is that Idris Elba felt that pressure of what that gun, you know, that bullet, and he was, man, that disturbed him. But I'm just going back to Denzel is no joke. But I mean, he's not going to jeopardize anybody's safety, but he probably will get you going. You know, like he's just, I love that he does that.

From a charisma, just who's cool in a room, if all the cool people are in the same room, is Denzel the coolest one in the room? Like, do the basketball stars even like, they're like, oh my God, that's Denzel? If he's in a room with Jordan, what happens? I think... Because they're like the ultimate alpha dogs.

People, I think people will go to Denzel more. We're going to be more in awe of Mike just because that's Mike. Yeah. But I think Denzel, more people probably feel like he's more approachable to a certain degree. But who I think will usurp both of them

is President Obama. For some reason when Obama is- Oh, that's a good, yeah. So Obama's, he's got the championship belt right now. He's got the championship belt. Because... Everyone's sucking up to him. I mean, he's the first black president.

And he had a charisma and an incredible wife. And, you know, it's just something about, I mean, history will go down. They will remember a lot of great actors, a lot of great athletes. But the first black president of the United States, leader of the world, that's etched in history.

You get Jordan in the 90s, and then you get Obama in the 2000s. Yeah, that's a beautiful- That's a pretty good run. I mean, we need more, man, to be honest. Come on, let's be honest. We need more executive, black execs, women execs in all these places of business that we love, whether it's sports, films, television. Can we talk about Chicago? Can we talk about Chicago?

Yes, bro. That's my town. How are we feeling about Chicago these days? It's never been more in the news for the violence and all the stuff that's my town how are we feeling about chicago these days it's never been more in the news for the violence and all the stuff that's going on there and it doesn't seem like it's getting better well i think you know actually last year i think the number it went down a little bit as far as murders still not anything to celebrate because it's still people that are being killed. I see a lot of people making efforts. I've been at home and seen a lot of different organizations that are doing things.

It was some young men that started a cutting grass company in the hood just to be productive. What's Arnie Duncan's organization called? They take young men from the hood who were like shooters, like who was out there doing stuff and give them jobs and train them. And I've been amongst these young men and, man, to see their transition and to hear them speak and to know what they come from, it's doozy to tell you, man, I've been shot 13 times. Now I'm working. And this is incredible to have this opportunity.

So, and like Father Mike Flager, who has been a staple and who is a white priest who's always, I mean, he might as well be black the way he just fathers and helps young people around the city. I like to celebrate those people because we do have a lot of violence going on, but we also have people that are really taking care of the community and really combating that violence with good things. And I think the more we talk about it, the more people understand that it exists. And so, yeah, I mean, and our city is a beautiful city, ultimately. Especially in the summer. Yeah, that's what it is. It's the best, man.

And, you know, we just got to provide more opportunities. We got a new mayor in Chicago named Mayor Lightfoot. She's a woman who even just spoke about oh yeah, AIM is the program that Arnie Duncan used to be the secretary of education with

President Obama. And a celebrity game hall of famer. Dude, he got a game though. He's moving without the ball. Everybody else is going one on five and he's actually doing back cuts. In a celebrity game, because I never honestly showed up and really did great in a celebrity game. And my friends are always like, man, you play way better in everyday life than you do in a celebrity game. What's the matter?

Is it the lights? And I was like, I'm a team player. I pass the ball. So I was playing with Arnie Duncan in one, and we had a good chemistry. We was the two that was like, because Cassidy out there joking, we was taking it serious. I mean, in a way that we wanted to win. And we were like, yo, I'm going to hit you if you're cutting.

That dude could pass. He could play, man. I coached it one year against Jalen and Arnie was on the other team and it sucked because he was like getting buckets. I had Kevin Hart

who was just like going Westbrook 2016. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kevin Hart is definitely out there for the show. You know, like he's a, he's an entertainer. Because I had poor Jesse Williams

who had like a double-double and was like really, really going hard and Michael is that when he hurt his knee no I didn't have him that year oh yeah and then I had Michael B. Jordan

who was all fired up to play in that game and then you know didn't get enough looks I tried it's hard

it goes fast you got too many I tried I tried to get everybody involved I tried to I had Snoop Dogg who was like shockingly good. Right. Like you just would never expect. And especially after I saw his pregame warmup routine, I'll just say like, I was like, oh man, this isn't going to go well. But, uh,

but he was good. But at one point he basically demanded to, to go in yeah he's like coach put me back in i'm like okay snoop yeah yeah i totally rolled over but he was good he was like snoop can play yeah he he was at least like it he was like a sneaky good rebounder in traffic i'm trying to think who has been the best we should have won jaylen's holding over me for the rest of my life oh yeah i mean mbj missed like four free throws at the end i had kevin hart had like 19 turnovers, but we almost had it. And then I owed Jalen a big dinner after. He was so happy. Oh, man.

I mean, people take pride in those celebrity games. Well, they're televised. And then they're on ESPN. They run it again and again. It's on like for 24 straight hours. They're running it. Yeah, I've had some very low points where justin bieber crossed me over and they showed the highlight over and over and it wasn't like a ill cross either it was

just like i was like first of all he crossed it but he passed it anyway i'm not gonna he he wasn't terrible no he could play he could play a little and he's low to the ground which is hard for people who are taller yeah to just stay in front of those people. I'm trying to think who has been the best person I've seen in the celebrity game. They used to say Terrell Owens was one of the better ones. He's pretty good. Yeah. But I mean, he's a great athlete.

Yeah, he's a great athlete. You were in, what was it, Just Right? Yeah. And you had to train for that. And you took that one seriously, I remember. Yeah, I was training with the assistant coach for the New Jersey Nets at that point. And man, I grew up playing basketball. I'm a point guard, so I love the drive to the hole. My game was, if you look at the point guards or guards in Chicago,

D-Wade, D-Rose, we go to the hole. That's what we do. You're scoring point guards. Yeah. And just like to drive, even if you end up dishing Isaiah, Isaiah Thomas. I'm speaking on myself like I'm in their class. No, I like it.

I keep it going. It's good. But the truth of the matter is- You know, guys like me and Isaiah. Derek Rose. Derek Rose. But the thing of the matter is- You know, guys like me and Isaiah. Derrick Rose. Derrick Rose. But the thing is that I developed a shot, man. I really developed a jump shot in it.

For the training for the sports movie. Yeah, the training for the sports movie. And man, my game had never been better. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. And I can remember the trainer like, you're a player now. You're a player. I felt like, you know, and I really thought I could play against some NBA talent.

And so in the movie, I had to play against Dwayne Wade and it was like, I felt how strong and fast he was. And, you know, even in those celebrity games and in that film, those guys are just, their arm length is longer, their hands are bigger, and they have the speed and superhuman abilities. The strength is the thing that you completely underestimate. Even like playing with Jalen, well after he'd retired, but he's 6'88 and you cannot even go near him

his body's like a force field and he can basically he wasn't even in shape when we used to play now he's in better shape he used to get to any spot he wanted and if you're trying to dig for the ball you're just bouncing off him but I think Kawhi is the best version I've ever seen of that

Kawhi is like he's just like a rock of granite. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. You can't measure it. I got, I understand what you're saying. And I think, you know, for those listening, probably could feel it to a certain degree.

But you know it more and I know it more because we bumped up against somebody. It's just different. You can't describe it. Yeah, you can't. It's not like playing pickup or intramurals or any of that stuff. There's something different about the elite basketball dudes.

But Jordan was, I'm sure, when he put the muscle on after the Pistons were beating the shit out of him for a couple years in a row. It was the same thing. You're not getting the ball from him. What I noticed with D-Way was it was like that core strength where you can't move the person. Like, you can bump up and this person is not moving. Like, it's, yeah. So, it was a, what I realized at that time is like, yo, these guys are working on muscles that don't even, my body don't even know exists. Like, you know what I mean?

That core. know exists like you know what i mean that core i'm like man even when i watched more than a game when i saw what lebron was doing in elementary school some of the training he was doing i was like wait they had this in elementary school they didn't have obviously i mean we didn't even mention lebron for strongest guys i remember i was doing podcasts once and he just passed by me and we were talking for a little bit and then i said goodbye and i like kind of did the thing where like all right man you slap somebody on the shoulder and it was talking for a little bit. And then I said goodbye and I kind of did the thing where you're like, alright man, you slapped somebody on the shoulder. And it was like not a shoulder.

It was like he had shoulder pads on but he did it. It was just his shoulders. I was like, I can't imagine how anybody would guard this dude. It's like 6'8 and a half, 280 with no body fat. I think he is truly the, I mean they were were saying for a long time.

Don't blaspheme MJ. No, no. Be careful. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to let you do it on this podcast. No, listen. Even though for a second I was, about a year ago, I was like really battling in my mind with the fact that LeBron.

No, don't let it. Fight it off. But let me say, this is what I was going to say about LeBron. He is a true example of when they say like a superhuman, you know, where athletes are, like his strength, his speed, and just how big he is. And like you said, like no body fat, but just, and man, to have that skill with that intelligence when it comes to the game, it's like, I love watching him play.

And he's definitely one of my favorites. It's still, you know, it's still Michael Jordan as the greatest I've witnessed. Me too. But, you know, I think LeBron is right under there. He's definitely, who are your top five players? And I mean, I know we have people who had this talk all the time,

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Go to simplisafe.com slash BS. That is SimpliSafe with two I's. Just go there. I had LeBron at two because of the years now that he's put in. We were talking about he comes in the league in 03. And the 18 playoffs were probably his best playoffs. He's 16 years in at that point. And I think it's probably the only way he catches MJ

is just if he plays for like 23 years and he can be good for five more. Like at that point, it's- Well, that's what I was, last year is what made me be like, look, man, this dude has, we got to, this is a conversation because he's in his 16th year and he just hit 51.

Or was it 51? He hit 51 in that first game. He was awesome. I mean, I went to game one of the 18 finals. Yeah. The J.R. Smith game. Yeah, that's what, he hit 51 in that game. Yeah, that was the best I'd ever seen anybody play. And I've been to a lot of good games, and I've seen a lot of great people.

That was the best you've seen any player? I've just, he was beating the Warriors by themselves, by himself. And that was an unbelievable Warriors team and they didn't know what to do. And he was like the blend of, he could do anything he wanted from 22, 23 feet away, but he could also get to the rim whenever he wanted. And they just didn't know what to do. You know? And then it's like, if you triple team him, he's always going to make the right pass.

And at some point you just kind of go, shit, right well i guess we have to leave these two guys open because we can't stop him and i think that was one of the reasons he got so mad when when jr uh made the mistake but then in overtime it was the only time i've ever seen him do this i feel like i've seen a lot of lebron games not as many in person but i almost seem like he was gonna get in a fight in the last minute. There was this moment when he started really talking to Curry, and it seemed like he was going to fight somebody. He was so angry. He knew that.

He just knew that they weren't going to win the finals after that, because you can't beat that team five times. Yeah. And he just could see the ship sailing in the game and it was like oh he just he probably just had to release it some way i mean at a certain point it is like i mean when i get competitive i get mad at dudes yeah like to be honest and like he's pissed you know i it's been times i'll be wanting to fight on the court but i you know you try to take it out on the court you know, meaning in the game.

So I can understand, especially the type of game he had, like you said. And it's just that one mistake that could have caught. That was a legendary game. It really was. That was an unforgettable game, much like the game five we had in the finals just now with KD going out. I think as the years pass, it's just one of those games you're going to remember.

Because not just that he went down, but then Curry and Klay kind of digging deep one last time. Down six. That kind of took the wind out of me for the wind, meaning I got really like, dang, man, this ain't even exciting for me anymore. Because it's sad to see somebody who like really sacrificed and made it, like worked hard to get back. And, you know, to go down, it's like, man, I don't know.

It's just, you know, certain times when you're watching a game, when you're playing and somebody gets hurt, it puts it in perspective. Life, in a way, it kind of brings like... Football, that happens the most. Somebody's getting carried off. It's like, all right, let's start the game again. And you're like, ah. You're like, why?

We have 10 minutes? Yeah, exactly. So I kind of felt that way, even though, honestly, I had an event, a video screening for my new single that's coming out. And I was like, so I didn't even get to see the game. But when I saw everything, I was like, dang, man.

You know, even hearing Steph Curry be like, man, Steph Curry was like, look, they know who we are now. Like whether we win or not, like this, we show who we are now. Like, whether we win or not, like, this, we show who we are. And I think, you know, and within saying that, it was kind of like, almost like, man,

this championship don't mean as much as it did before because our brother just got hurt. Yeah. And his, this is like a real injury

and everybody felt the weight of that, so. I thought he was going to start crying after the game. Doris was interviewing him, Steph Curry. Yeah.

And that was the most emotional I'd ever seen him. And one of the reasons I'm a Warriors fan is because of Steph. I love Steph. I do too. His whole spirit, energy, what type of leader he is, how fun he is when he plays the game. Well, really how fun they are as a team, to be honest. But he's the core of that, you know, and he's the spark and the leader of it. So I love him.

And, I mean, to see him emotional is something, you know, because he doesn't – he shows joy. He'll show disappointment a little bit, but I never seen him too vulnerable. Well, and I think it was pretty raw because with the Toronto fans cheering right after KD got hurt and you see guys from both teams telling them to shut the F up. Yeah. That game had a different energy and emotion to it. I wish I had been at that game.

I think it definitely seemed like a special, different kind of experience just to be in the house for that. But sometimes that happens. Well, I mean, I guess that was another thing that made me be like, man, you know, I saw the brotherhood of the Toronto Raptors and the Warriors. Yeah. You know, like, I'm rooting for the Warriors. Like, man, get Toronto out of here.

You know, like, I want y'all to win. I'm a Warriors fan. I just didn't. But when I saw Toronto, like, really embrace KD and, like, show that brotherhood, as I saw Kyle Lowry say, it made me just be like, man, at the end of the day, they are brothers. Like he said, it's only a select group that make it to the NBA. And they are, you know, even if they get into a fight

and it's a tough competition, they all respect each other at the end of the day just for making it to the NBA. And even if they get into a fight and it's a tough competition, they all respect each other at the end of the day just for making it to that league. And it kind of, like I said, it made me, my passion for the competition right now is not the same as it was a game before. Yeah. Well, it's interesting that that's changed in basketball and in hip hop and rap too. Yeah. Where you had the 90s were so much more adversarial. Yeah.

In basketball and in music where you had the 90s were so much more adversarial yeah in basketball and in music where you had just people feuding left and right i mean you were in a couple but now it seems like in basketball the guys are all much more aligned together they're all friends um very rarely do you see like bad blood with that stuff and i feel like the same thing it shifted in me we still have little little feuds in music but for the most part it's much more collaborative and um i think than it used to be yeah i mean um at one point you know it was like literally east against west coast and and that's like oh that's a lot of different acts and artists that had like beef even if they did like each other and didn't want to be a part

of it. It was like, you were classified as East coast and you never knew. Yeah. You're in Chicago. I don't even know how you were East coast. You should have had your own coast. I know. I mean, I was representing Chicago. He was like, you were somehow messed with the, it's in the Midwest. Midwest never got its own thing going. I mean, but, but, but ultimately we didn't have like a big like, yo, East Coast, West Coast, Midwest, even though it's East Coast, West Coast, and the South. But if you look at the artists from Chicago, from Kanye to Lupe to Chance

to like Lil Bibby to Saba, there's artists no name. And even Twista and Dua Di from, I'm just talking on the hip hop level. I can go a lot with the soul and all that. But the point is, we were bringing a lot of good music to the culture. It just wasn't like, yo, check out the Midwest artists because it would need to be more artists from Cleveland. It was just a bad branding,

bad branding in the 90s. Because Atlanta had the same issue. Atlanta was kind of over here, but still doing as much as anybody. But the East Coast, West Coast thing kind of swallowed up everybody else. But I think those beefs stopped, honestly, with the death of Tupac and Biggie. Yeah. It kind of was like, it shook everybody.

We still had some bad ones after that, though. Definitely. I remember talking to Nas about all the stuff that happened with him and Jay-Z. Yeah. I mean, it definitely, but those,

that was like, had a little personal riff to it. And even like, when I got into it with Drake, it was a little personal riff thing going on. How many years ago was that?

That was, that was 2012. So, that wasn't that long ago. Was that years ago was that? That was 2012. So, that wasn't that long ago. Was that because he was Canadian? No. It was like many wars that happened. It was personal. It seemed like Drake kind of wanted to have

those because he knew that was good for Drake. To ruffle some feathers and then you make up and it's just kind of good for the brand. I mean, at the end of the day, I think he's obviously one of the most talented artists out there. And also, he would say what he wanted. He would throw a couple punches at you. Right, a couple jabs.

Yeah, he'd give you a couple jabs and say, come on out in this ring. So certain people like after you get jabbed you're like hold up i'm a fighter like so well your worst one was with west side connection right yeah that was that was the toughest um you had to people people had to intervene on that one yeah yeah we um we definitely that's always bad you know beef is bad when third parties have to intervene yeah i mean it was getting to that level because i think you know cube and and like the west side connection really looked at me like all common is just this hip-hop backpack dude but it was like man hey bro i'm from the south side man we don't i'm gonna i'm gonna go for mine too the same whatever level we're gonna take this to it's

gonna be that right and i think you know that's that's just that was my mentality and i said what i said record wise and we we kind of got into a confrontation face to face with mac 10 but i'm glad it all got resolved because those good brothers and even i actually got to shoot a commercial with mac 10 like a few years after that and it was man, them dudes is cool. Ice Cube was super cool when we filmed Barbershop. And I was like, I mean, first of all, he was always one of my inspirations. Yeah. I loved from KRS and Rakim to NWA, Ice Cube, Eazy-E.

I loved all that. Like being in Chicago, I was East Coast and West Coast, you know? And in fact, some of the West Coast artists, like, the language was more similar to us. So I kind of related to some of the stuff they were saying. New York was like the Mecca. We just kind of, like, looked up to everybody in New York. But I actually related to some of the things that, you know, the West Coast artists were saying because really a lot of people on the West Coast, especially LA, a lot of their roots are like ours in Chicago.

They come from Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama. So a deeper connection was like, man, we kind of come from the same places, and I had that connection with the West Coast. It's so funny. I was a broke white guy living in Boston. And I was just West Coast. Were you?

Yeah, I was like, I'm on that side. What was it? I just liked the music board. Yeah. I just gravitated toward that. I was 3,000 miles away from it. But I think, I don't know, the stuff hits everybody differently. Yeah, I mean, that's very true.

I can understand that. But yeah. And I think, you know, it was something raw about the West Coast. Like, New York in itself has its own planet. You know, like, New York is its own world. So, I think, like I said, some of the West Coast stuff was probably just relating to a lot of people outside of New York. And then everybody in the South was like,

everybody's forgetting about us. And they just get like, you know. It actually, I think, really helped them. And now Atlanta, you could argue Atlanta's like the epicenter of everything right now. Definitely when it comes to a lot of, you know, the trap sound and the music, what is going on. The innovations. Some of the younger artists artists they've broken out.

They definitely have innovated when it comes to hip hop. I mean, they've definitely brought some new things to it and new things to the culture and new sounds. I'm glad they've won something because they can't win in sports. Well, yeah.

I mean, they definitely having a rough... That joke was from my friend, remember from Atlanta. Oh, man. 28 to three Falcons. Yeah. Oh man. We came back.

Dude, that was so crazy. Tom Brady. That was so crazy. Like so many of my friends from Atlanta. That's a tough one. But man, one of my close friends

that put money on the Falcons, man. Ooh. And he thought, he was calling me in like by halftime, like, man, I'm about to win this.

Jesus. Jesus. Dude. So you've been on the ground floor for this basketball players and rappers slash hip-hop artists where they've all kind of just meshed into one giant group basically. And now it's like living out with this NBA Finals with Drake courtside, just almost like he's an NBA player even though he's not. Yeah.

So you've been from the get-go, an NBA player, even though he's not. Yeah, I mean. So you've been from the get-go, this has happened, and now we're here. Can you explain this? The crossover, people dropping names in lyrics and songs, and it just seems like it's all one giant group now. Well, I think, you know, us growing up, Magic, Bird, Jordan, they weren't like in the rap.

Like rap was just, you know, it was just coming into play. They were children of the 60s. You know, their music was a different thing. I remember when Ice Cube did the, the messed around guy, triple double.

That was, it was like, oh, cool. Basketball in a song. I mean, we, hip hop artists definitely would rap, I mean,

reference, I mean, Curtis Blow made a song called Basketball. Cats would look at, like, we looked up to athletes, but I think what happened in the mid-90s, like, I can remember

seeing pictures of Redman and Method Man visiting Allen Iverson. And it was like, it started to be, the Fab Five, they were pivotal in bringing hip-hop to sports and basketball. Jalen has never been happier than doing this right now. I mean, and I think that, the fact that the athletes that were coming up in a certain era, their music was hip-hop. So once we, like, kind of got over, like, the fact of, like, okay, some of these athletes wanted to be rappers and the rappers wanted to be athletes. And we're like, man, we really love y'all. It just started connecting. And then when you had people like the late, great Stuart Scott using hip-hop references in his broadcast,

and it was like, yo, this is, everything was connecting. And now, you know, I mean, like you said, Drake is part of the, like, I've seen articles about Drake as much as I'm watching, I mean, as much as I'm reading about some of the athletes. Yeah, two different media entities, the Wall Street Journal and ESPN, wrote pieces about the writer just watched Drake the entire game and wrote a piece about it. I read some.

I was like, this is two different people did this? Yeah, I mean, I saw the ESPN one where he watched everything that Drake was doing during the game. And even when you see ESPN clips, I mean, he's a topic on first take at times. It's crazy. If you go to ESPN.com, he's in like five of the pictures. They know. They know it gets traffic.

It's funny, though. We've reached a point where if Drake feuded with Draymond Green during a game and then after, it would kind of make sense. Where like 20 years ago, it would be like, what's going on? Why is a fan feuding with an nba player yeah but now it seems like just part of the whole process well i mean i actually think that as fans it's got to be a limit i'll eat whether you you know i don't whether you're like a popular artist or i mean but whether you're a popular artist movie star whatever like I feel like this is this is gone you think this has gone two shades too far well I mean look he Drake is an

ambassador he can do it probably do what he want but I'm just saying that I from my perspective as I think that man these people are this is their dream. This is their profession. I mean, I understand cheering. I understand even talking a little. You're talking a little stuff to people. I can see that. But overall, I kind of think you want to have a certain boundary just to allow them. These dudes worked hard to get here.

Yeah. And I just think about if somebody was heckling me during the show for a long time i'm gonna be like man i'm gonna get a little heated like you know and it's yeah true and it's not but i but i was i love that drake cares about his team that much and he like having fun right at the end of the day he having fun man so you know you know who created all of this one of the world's greatest rappers, Jack Nicholson. Now, it started with him in the mid-80s.

Was he? He was going to the Celtic Lakers finals and he came to Boston and did a couple, he was doing like the choke sign from the balcony

and shit like that. Yeah, he was the first one who celebrity fan who kind of riled things up. But that's why I like, as Yeah, he was the first one who celebrity fan who kind of riled things up. But that's why I like as much, you know, I have to understand that like,

shoot, this ain't Drake, not the first one to do it. This is a legacy. Spike Lee. I mean, Spike. Spike was the one I saw the most. And Spike barely did anything. Like it was Reggie Miller

talking all kinds of shit to him that whole game. And Spike stood up at one point and yelled at him. But Spike would say something, right? He was like under his breath. Drake is like up and demonstrative and really trying to get guys, you know, riled up, which is interesting.

He feels like he's on the team. Yeah, I mean, you kind of got to like, at a certain point, you got to love it too because it's like somebody that's like really like cheering for their team. And I mean, I do it at home. But I just, you know, when I'm at the game, I feel like, yo, this is their space. This is that. Let them get their stuff off.

I cheer for the team I love. Were you going to the 90s Bulls games? You were famous at least for the last three. Yeah, but I wasn't. Last three titles. I wasn't famous enough to get those courtside seats up. But I did have a name in Chicago, and I was definitely out there

where I think I could have attended the games. I kind of at that point wasn't, you know, I was a ball boy for the Bulls. What? Yeah, I was a ball boy for the Bulls in 84. So when Michael Jordan first came in. Reggie Theus and George Girvin. Reggie Theus, George Girvin, Enos Watley.

Orlando Woolridge. Orlando Woolridge. Man, it was a Quentin Daly was this dude. Oh, that dude had some problems. That was a legendary trouble guy. Man, he had a jump shot. That's why teams kept citing him because he was like a 25 point-game guy, but he had some demons.

Quinn Daly, man. So I was actually a ball boy when Mike first came. And it was an amazing job. So I think once I stopped being a ball boy because I was getting too old to do it I was like once I turned 25 no I was like 14 I was like man

enough of this man I'm good I kind of just watched the Bulls as a fan I didn't have I would have loved to have gone to the games

but I didn't wasn't making those connections I didn't have those I sidetracked you by the way you asked top 5 who's your top 5 now basketball yeah I'll give you those. I sidetracked you, by the way. You asked top five. Who's your top five now?

Basketball? Yeah. Of now or ever? I'll give you mine. Ever. I'll give you mine. MJ1, LeBron, Kareem. Oh, no. MJ, LeBron, Bill Russell, Kareem, Magic.

Okay. Magic, a hair over Bird. Mine is close. He played like two more years than Bird. And that's a Boston guy saying that. I know, it hurts. I wrote a basketball book, and it was like the toughest part of the book for me,

putting Magic over Bird. I had to. He played two more really good years than Bird did. Yeah. I'm going with Mike, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, and Hakeem Olajuwon. That's my top five. Hakeem is unbelievable.

I know Bill Russell. And I'm only going because those are the players I actually seen. It's hard for me to watch clips of players and really determine if they were the greatest. And that's why I had to come to grips when so many of the new generation was like, yo, LeBron is the best. Because they only seen some of Mike's clips. Yeah. You know.

It's a generational thing, though, because if you weren't there for it, you're always going to think your guy is better than the guy before him. But one thing we can all acknowledge is Michael Jordan took the league and the NBA to an international level, really. Like, he took it to the level of, like, he had the magnetism and the charisma and the stardom. Just to, I mean, he made the NBA kind of what it is. Along with, I mean, obviously, it's people back there marketing and doing their thing. But you got to have the star to do it. Also the most important celebrity ever for bald people. Nobody had thought about this.

He created the shaved head thing. He never got credit for it. I mean, think about that. I never thought about it. 35 years of it now. Yeah, but we had our little images of Isaac Hayes

and, yeah, yeah. He was bringing that back from that. Yeah, but Mike, but you're right, yeah, yeah. He was bringing that back from that. Yeah. But Mike, but you're right, Mike,

in that era, yeah, hair was the thing. And you're absolutely right where Mike was. Mike was actually, you know, the Jordans. And I had his first little,

I got a picture of me in his first like Air Jordan sweatsuit thing that he created. Like that was like, it's impossible to describe now how important he was that first year when coming out of the Olympics. Yeah. The posters. I got every poster, the sneakers, him going on David Letterman,

like all this stuff. It was like, we never really had like a cool basketball player before like this. You know, like from the get go, he was the coolest. I mean, and it's so incredible like because you're saying some of the things that he's hadn't hasn't gotten credit for but even the longer shorts thing was something that it was between him and the five five right that did that i think it was mike though probably first

oh yeah longer shorts fab five took it and blew it out. Right. But yeah, I mean, I was involved with the Fab Five 30 for 30 we did. And it was one of the most important ones we did because it was kind of this lost team that had this huge impact. They, man.

And we were able to capture it. And now it's like this document for all the shit they did. I mean, as you said, they ushered all these different things in. I think Iverson, who, you know, the media hated for a while there, but Iverson was really important too. He broke a lot of walls, went down with him. With him.

Iverson is, he's on the same level as like, as far as ushering in new things and bringing like a new culture like the tattoos the cornrows the whole like people don't know what the fuck was going on with that i mean you had people in the first five rows like what's going on with that guy like they just didn't know how to even react to him but i mean the the truth of the matter is he was just bringing like a black culture that yeah that was very true to you know aspect of us to the forefront and he was like and it was unapologetic and it just was like raw and who he is and it was natural and everybody gravitated to it i mean i loved him i also loved the intensity that he played with he has some everybody knows he has so much heart. Man, one time I, like, I think it was just this All-Star game that was here in LA.

I got to see him and Isaiah back, you know, by the locker rooms and stuff. And I was like, man, these two are my favorite. Isaiah was like, because he was from Chicago. Toughest. So to listen to them two talk was like, man, this Isaiah. And then to hear AI give it up, like, he was like, man, you're one of the reasons. He was telling Isaiah, you're one of the reasons I am who I am. They both had that toughness.

They both was only six feet tall, like really. And Isaiah and both had terrible childhoods growing up. Yeah, they had tough. Isaiah was one of the top five toughest MFers. He punched Bill Cartwright. Bill Cartwright was like 7'1". He was going after him. Yeah, Isaiah's from the west side of Chicago.

He's a badass. And he had a lot of brothers. Yeah. So he knew. That wasn't his first fight, I'll tell you that much, right? There's that famous story when Bobby Knight went to recruit him, and the brothers were trying to mess it up. And Bobby Knight got mad and was like, blah, blah, blah.

And he looked at one of the brothers like, and you know what? You're going to end up a loser just like him. And he walked out. And it was like, that was it. Isaiah wasn't going to go to Indiana. And then Isaiah like kind of chased him down and was like, I'm sorry. But he had a really rough family. It was in this book, Breaks of the Game, that covered how Isaiah ended up with Bobby Knight and all this stuff.

But his life was as rough as anybody's. Nah, for sure. They made a TV movie out of it that was actually really good. Really? About him. Yeah, it was like, I'm going to say late 80s. About Isaiah? About Isaiah and his mom.

I think it was more about his mom than Isaiah. Yeah, that's why I had a lot of respect for his mother. I mean, because one of my mom's friends was like a police officer in that West Side area. And he kind of was like a mentor to Isaiah to a certain degree. He always talked about how incredible his mother was to raise, you know, all those young men and women and did a great job with them. It was something for me to see that Isaiah magic conversation when they, you know. Yeah, there's a lot of history with those guys.

Good and bad. Yeah. You can feel it in the conversation. You feel it, man. And to see them like come together was like, man, that was special. I really want that for, speaking of the 5'5", I want to see that for the 5'5", like, to see Jalen, Chris. I thought that Juwan getting the Michigan job might do it, but that's another one where there's so much history, good and bad. Yeah.

I don't know. It's so crazy because, I mean, I do understand those things because I have friends that I grew up with that we ended up going separate ways, having conflicts. So I do know it's human nature. But just as an outsider and a fan, you're like, man, I love them dudes. Chris wouldn't be in the documentary. Yeah. We were telling him the whole time up until you know when it was gonna air and he just and now that thing's

been watched by like I don't know 20 million people at this point or however many I love C-Web though I mean and I love Jalen

I mean I'm hoping at some point it comes around wait we you have to go fairly soon I wanted to talk quickly about Kanye

cause he's an important person for me just cause I love his music and I feel like I'm one of the last defenders. You were on the ground floor with him. Yeah. When did you know? When did you know he had it? Had a really a super talent. I would say he was playing beats. He was around 19 years old and he was playing beats around the same time as a producer, my producer, No I.D., who was like kind of his mentor. Kanye would play these beats and I was like, man, this dude is really good.

But then what it made me say he had it was he would rap and he would freestyle really good. Like his freestyles were really good. And I was like, there's certain people you meet in life where you're like, this dude is really good. I didn't know it would turn into this. I will never claim that I knew that he would be one of the biggest artists ever, but I knew that he had a special talent and I knew that I hadn't heard people doing some of the things he was doing. When I fast forward to about 2003, I went to a show at SOB's that he was performing and I saw hip, hip hop cats with backpacks on.

And I saw them throwing up the Rockefeller sign. And I was like, damn, I didn't know these two worlds could exist, could coexist. Yeah. Because at that time in hip hop, it was either you're going to be,

you're going to be on some get money or gangster stuff, or you're going to be artistic, backpack underground hip hop. But Kanye had brought together both those worlds. And I was like, man, this is a special, it was like a special moment for me. Because it kind of broke a wall for me to know, you don't have to be separate like you don't have to be separate it doesn't have to be set because at one point we kind of let that be the separation like if you're rapping about getting money you it felt like you couldn't rap about anything socially conscious but kanye did that on the college dropout which you appeared on yeah yeah you also

i don't know if you know this or maybe you must because people must mention it to you but when you guys were on Chappelle that became one of the iconic 2000s TV appearances it's not even on YouTube for some reason which I think is bizarre it's like one of those things though this collision of these

three different worlds on this show that didn't last very long but people just love. And it's just a cool moment, a cool time in your careers. That was an incredible time. And just that moment, as you speak about it, Kanye, that was the first song we did together that he produced. And he had been shopping me beats for a minute,

but it was just like, I had all these other, my mind was on doing these different types of music. So that beat was actually a piece of music he was making for somebody else. And I got to the studio and he was like, I was like, yo, this is dope. He was like, yo, you want this? I was like, yeah. So he's like, hurry up and take it and leave, you know, like, cause the person was coming to the studio. So he's like, hurry up and take it. I said, I took it. I went and wrote to it and we created that because the person was coming to the studio. Yeah. So he's like, Herman, take it. I said, I took it. I went and wrote to it. And we created that song. And I recorded it in the studio.

And once, you know, Dave was part of our, Dave is part of our family. I just went to the Golden State game, the Warriors game at Oracle with Dave. Oh, you did? Yeah, the other day. It was fun, man. It was, man, I love Dave. I just seen him do a stand-up in the Bay Area that was amazing, just at this little spot in San Francisco. Anyway, so Dave used to come to the studio and just hang out sometimes with us prior to him having the show.

And when we got to be on the show, they actually had a different place for us to perform. They had this chimney and all these candles lit. And I was like, man, I don't want to do that. It looked like real, like, you know, I was trying to create, and I like candles and stuff now, but I was like, this ain't the vibe of the song. This ain't like, you know, it was kind of like earthy, like yoga.

It felt yoga, like what they wanted us to do. And we was like, nah. And we were walking through the set and we saw a kitchen and the name of the song was The Food. And we was like, nah. And we were walking through the set and we saw a kitchen and the name of the song was The Food. And we was like, man, let's do it here. The Kitchen, The Food. And we just ended up doing that live. So I'm glad you said that was a great moment on his show

because that show was one of my favorite. I mean, there's kind of a lot of the stuff from him those couple first two years, like there's stuff with him and John Legend and stuff with you. And, you know, it was kind of early YouTube, but there's a lot of video of it. It was just a cool time in his career. first two years. There's stuff with him and John Legend and stuff with you. It was kind of early YouTube, but there's a lot of video of his cool time in his career.

We're getting him back, right? Yeah. I feel like he has another great album. Oh, he has. That's all good. Me too. I still feel like he's coming back.

His talent is a God-given gift that you can't take away. I don't think anything is going. That talent is there. So when he focuses and chooses to do and go to his purest place of creativity and is not letting other things detour him. Yeah. He makes some of the greatest music ever. Well, you also, your career, like, you know, things ebb and flow.

Yeah, simple as that. What was that album you had before, B? People were like. Electric Circus. People were like, man. Yeah, I mean. This isn't the comment I want. Yeah, exactly.

And then you did another album. People were like, yeah, this one. But it I want. Exactly. And then you do another album. People are like, yeah, this one. But it's like, you know. That's a great. It's like wind that sends people in different directions. And then, you know. You have to know that. You have to know that as an artist.

Or, I mean, any career that is ebb and flow. It's valleys and mountains. And you go through it. And just be like. And if you can sustain your purpose and what you love to do within that and just be humble enough to grow, then you will reach that mountain again at some point. I'm buying all the Kanye stock. Tell me about the book really quick before you go. Yeah.

So the book is called Let Love Have the Last Word. And it's really, you know, me talking about my journey and understanding love from these different aspects in life, like love for God, learning love for self more, talking about therapy, talking about, like, my relationship with my daughter, being challenged. She challenged me, saying that, you know, she didn't think I was a good enough father when she was young.

You know, so it really is me discussing this journey of me finding love and discovering what love is and how to apply it in these times where things feel so divisive and things feel so unstable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good luck with it.

It's out or it's coming out? It's out right now. Yeah, it's out now. And I actually have an album that's inspired by the book that'll be out. My first single is out now called Her Love and it's produced by J Dilla, the late great J Dilla. Oh, you got it grown from Kyle. Yeah. Yeah, the late great J Dilla.

And it's featuring Daniel Caesar. And it's kind of discussing the evolution of hip hop it's kind of it's indirectly a sequel to a song I did called I Used to Love Her which was talking about hip hop and

that was actually the song that Ice Cube and them felt I was you know that started the beef but anyway this song Her Love is really a beautiful song, man, about hip hop, and it's off the album Let Love. So I'm excited about it, yeah. Your next book should be about Midwest rap, trying to get it as a brand.

Yeah, I mean, we got a lot. We don't want to be in the East Coast anymore. We showed our own thing. Yeah, I know. We did get classified as East Coast for some reason. You're like 1,500 miles away from the East Coast. That's a long plane ride. Two hours.

Common, thank you for doing this. This was fun. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it. I hope you come back in John Wick 4. Oh, man, me too. Pull that knife out of your chest. Hey, man.

Get some stitches. Yes. Start a campaign, man. You got a big voice. Start a campaign. Oh, I think people would be excited if you get back. Good. All right.

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See you in a couple days with Ursula.