The Bill Simmons Podcast - Brady’s Unretirement and the 20 Best Top-Five NBA Players With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss Tom Brady’s announcement that he’s coming out of retirement to play another season with the Buccaneers (2:23), before going through their top 20 NBA players (44:47), thinking about All-NBA teams, and more (1:08:53). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, I've got legends unretiring. I have retirement ceremonies. I have basketball. I have March Madness. I got more basketball. I got Rosillo. It's all next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite.

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a half against the Lakers. And then LeBron slapped a 50 piece on us, but starting to heat up. I've been watching a lot of basketball. Can't wait to talk about that. And Tom Brady and a little against the Lakers. And then LeBron slapped a 50-piece on us. But starting to heat up. I've been watching a lot of basketball. Can't wait to talk about that. And Tom Brady. And a little KG. And Philly. Whole bunch of stuff. All coming up next with Ryan Rossella.

First, our friends taping this. It's a little before 6 p.m. Pacific time on Sunday. Ryan Rosillo is here. We just delayed the taping of this podcast by 20 minutes because we were riveted by the Sixers magic game. The magic. Yet another fun, bad NBA team. We'll talk about the Sixers later.

Got to start with Tom Brady, who officially announced he's coming back. He did it with about five minutes left to go in Kevin Garnett's retirement ceremony, which I'm sure he was hopefully not aware of. But Russillo, I was not surprised. I guess the surprising part to me, I felt all along, and I said this over and over again on this podcast, he wanted to go to San Francisco.

That's where he wanted to end up. I never felt like he was done. I felt like he was done with Tampa. And it seems like Tampa outwitted him. He did not want to leave. He did not want to stop playing football. And they made it clear over and over again, well, if he's going to play football, he's under contract. He's going to play here. And now he's going to play football in Tampa Bay. Were you surprised when you heard the news? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, the thing that I always think is really important to remember is almost every NFL player wants to retire like two weeks after the season. Like anyone I've ever known that's played in the league, you talk to them right when they're done and none of them want to play.

I'm serious. And so I think the worst time to make any kind of decision is right after the season ends. Now, you were on this early, though, and I think the information, you know, when you had heard about him retiring. So why don't you go back to that? Because take us through when you had heard about it, alluded to it,

then it happens to where we're at today. It's not like I have any information on him coming back. So I can't tell you that I'm totally blown away. But yeah, maybe a little surprised. I've had some good info on this throughout. Just that in mid-January

that that might be it, which it turned out to be. And then that, you know,, which it turned out to be. And then that, you know, it was either San Francisco or retire. Then he retired. Then it was, oh, well, there was a Miami thing that might've happened too, where the ownership group and now the Steve Ross thing, who knows what that, but still San Francisco. If you notice, San Francisco hadn't done anything with Jimmy G yet, even though you could argue it was the time to trade him before he hit free agency. So why are they holding on to him? They already said they're going to trade him. And I think everybody kind of deep down felt like this was headed for a Jimmy G, Brady kind how Brady, he redid his contract last year to allow a little more flexibility with them with free agents. And the understanding was, oh, well, I did this. And

you know, if I want to get out, then maybe we could figure something out. But I, I think the takeaway is Tampa didn't want to let him go. I think they looked at, I think they feel like they have a chance to win the Superbowl. They must have done a lot of lobbying with him to come back. The question for me, because I don't think the Arians thing is great. There's a lot of stuff going on, you know, behind the scenes about that. And some of the stuff Arians, do you follow some of his quotes during this? Yeah. Where he very kind of almost challenging Brady.

It reminded me a little when Pat Riley kind of got aggro with LeBron near the end there when he had that press conference. Then LeBron just went to Cleveland. Arians, instead of being like, man, it was an honor to coach Tom Brady. So it was such a joy. We won a Superbowl. I owe that guy everything. He was kind of like, eh, if he's going to play, it's going to be here. Like it was just, I thought it had a weird vibe to it. So I'm the thing to watch for me now is Aaron's going to be the coach. Cause you would assume like, oh yeah, of course he's going to be the coach, but I don't know. I don't think he did a great job last year. And I don't think the buzz on him, I don't, there's a lot of like work ethic buzz with him, which I'm

sure you've heard, um, over the years that I think is okay when you have brady come in but i'll be interested to see if he's the coach in a month i would have thought because you know when you'd heard okay of all the reasons is he going to retire first of all the family thing never makes any sense first of all because football you know you work for four months and you work one day a week and again i'm like i know there's practice and all there's this stuff but you can go home you can see your kids you're not on two-week road trips. So the element of having a family and then being like, now I can focus more on them. It's like, as a professional football player, you're actually going to have way more family time than the other guys in the other sports have.

So it's never really a great excuse. And even though no one ever wants to be like, oh, really? Let's talk about how much time you spend with your family because it's just a dumb topic and you want to get into it. I have more thoughts on that after you're done. Keep going. Then the Arians part of it you're like oh wait you guys actually disagreed this much and there were just hits because arians is just

not going to play the game that's just the way he is it's his personality it's the way he's always been and when things are going right i think people appreciate it because of a realness to him and you know i don't know it wasn't like Belichick was handing out flowers publicly to Brady all the time, but those guys were lockstep for so many years until they weren't, you know, once, once Belichick kind of, you know, it was like, I'm, I'm good moving on from this. So I would have thought that had to have been repaired or does Brady think that now I am going to push for San Francisco? Like, do we, do we know what's happening? This is the next step. Well, we know

the timing of this led to free agency where Tampa trying to prove to a bunch of people they probably want, hey, we're actually going to try to contend for the title this year. This is not a transition for us. So whether Brady's the QB or whether they flip him for another QB, at least it's a sign we're going to have a good quarterback. But going back to the Arians thing, I don't think Brady gets enough credit for being kind of cold-blooded and actually being a little bit of a grudge guy in a good way. I don't mean that in a bad way, but we always talk with Jordan. That became such a part of the legacy of Jordan of, oh my God, man, you look cross-eyed of Michael Jordan and he dropped 58 on you. Brady's a little like that too.

My dad, who granted is not the number one authority in sports, but my dad always felt like with the deflategate thing, when they didn't stick up for him, especially Belichick, that that was kind of the beginning of the end at some point. That Brady just filed that one away. It's like, all right. And then you had the Garoppolo thing and all that stuff. It was a little like the Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love thing, except Brady wasn't

open about it. He wasn't overt about it. He wasn't, didn't turn into a soap opera, but he's like a file it away guy. And he's like that with everything you watch. I watched all nine episodes of man in the arena. Like he still remembers all the dudes that got picked ahead of him in 2000, you know, and the Drew Henson thing and like everybody who didn't believe in him and every step and every sort of this person's your rival and then he would beat them. So I, the Arians thing, I think he files that shit away. So I might, if I, you asked me to bet, is Arians a coach this season? I would say it's like 55, 45. Yes. No, but I would be, I'd be not surprised at all if he wasn't the coach. I just don't know who the coach would be

because everybody got taken. First of all, your grudge point, the maniacal thing with him, it's completely overlooked because he doesn't share any of it. He doesn't tell us about the work as much as some of the other athletes in other sports have told us,

where it becomes part. Look, I understand the TB12 and all that kind of stuff. Like, he certainly marketed that part of the whole thing. But I don't think people truly understand that his level is in a level 11 psychotic competitive nature. Because he doesn't do the LeBron stuff. He doesn't do the Instagram posts and like, oh, I heard something on first take today that I'm not good anymore?

Question mark. He's never done that for 20 plus years. And because he retired, I know that I've heard more stories from people that were a little bit more willing to share that were just afraid to even share because there was also that part of Brady too. This goes back, I think, to some of his college guys.

There was some dumb article about what he was like and it was somebody that wasn't part of the core inner circle, but he was like a periphery dude. And Brady was like flipped out about it. Yeah. And none of us hear about any of this stuff unless you have some connection. So I would start to hear more of these stories about like the way he approaches things. And it's all impressive, by the way.

None of this is really a criticism at all. But he does a very kind of aw shucks public thing with certain things where you can really underestimate that. I think this all bakes into it. I think it's part of the competitiveness. I think it's part of the grudge thing. Look, he got Garoppolo out of there by going to Kraft. I think it's one of the few times that Kraft overruled Belichick on a football thing. And that's why I think Belichick was salty as hell in the same way that he felt like somebody meddled

with what he was doing. Although it never really made a ton of sense to me why they kept drafting quarterbacks anyway, you know, because they drafted a few in the time that Tom was there. It does remind you a little of the Rodgers stuff as well, but it's also that one guy has a much better resume than the other guy. There's been clues dropped during his whole career.

I remember when the Deflategate emails came out and it came out in those emails that one of his friends had sent him this piece I did about Brady and Manning. And one of the things was about how Brady was going to play longer and he wanted to play to his 45 and that was how he's going to win the rivalry. And Brady responded to the piece and was like, yeah, and took a shot at Manning in the email. And it became a story that there was like, whoa, Brady takes a shot. But yeah, Brady and Manning always

played nice publicly. Hey, bud. Hey, let's play. Those guys wanted to kill each other. It's just they, you know, it didn't become part of the story like it becomes with other stuff because they always played nice in public. It never got pissy, but I think behind the scenes,

those guys really wanted to beat each other. I think the psycho part of Brady's competitiveness never got enough attention. I think you have to be, if you're going to be the greatest or one of the greatest, Tiger, Ali, Brady, name anybody,

they're all fucking crazy. Federer. Federer's like, oh, Brady, name anybody. They're all fucking crazy. Federer. Federer's like, oh, what a nice guy. I guarantee Federer, the reason he kept going was because he wanted to keep beating Nadal. Those guys are all nuts. Serena Williams with Sharapova,

where Sharapova beat her once. Every time she played Sharapova, she tried to rip her heart out. You have to have that. Max Verstappen. Right. We'll talk about that on our new F1 podcast. No, I think you need that quality. And I think people, I think he has hoodwinked everybody into thinking that he doesn't, he's not operating that way, but he is.

And by the way, like, I just want our listeners to understand. I think everybody knows that he's super competitive and we've had glimpses into it. I'm just telling you that I've heard stories where i'm like holy shit okay and i don't know if surprise is the right thing but it's just there's a level that i that i think is is overlooked and so if that plays into your original grudge point none of this stuff would surprise me i think some of the most successful people are like meticulous grudge holders because they're constantly finding things to piss themselves off. And I can't ever sit here and say when a guy retires...

And here's the other thing too. If there's just a slice of you that starts to have a little regret and you can still play as well as he just did, then you got to keep playing. I mean, I know he's going to be 45 in August, but he's already smashed through whatever ceiling we've ever thought a professional athlete in that sport should have.

And if you want to keep doing it, go ahead and do it. And I know you wanted to say something about the family thing because there's still, I want to hit that later. No, two other, a piece along that is the stay too long legends. They all kind of stay too long.

Jordan? I don't know. His last year. Jordan's last year. The second Wizards year, what he ended up doing, I think, adds to who he is. But his knees were so shot at that point. And he's like, I'm doing one more. I got to make sure.

And then it was like, oh, I have to wear 58 pound ice bags on my knee after. And that was why he left. His knees just couldn't hold up. Peyton Manning had that last year when they actually won the Super Bowl. He literally had no way to throw. Serena is still hanging on. Like Serena is the greatest female athlete we've ever had. There's no signs of her retiring yet.

Sugar Ray Leonard, my favorite boxer, kept coming back. There was a third Hearns fight. Ali is the worst example of this where it's like, please, no, please, Ali, no more. And then he kept coming. Well, everyone around Ali was just absolutely

rolling him out there. He could have said no, but he couldn't say no to people. And reading about any of this stuff at Ali's career at the end, it's so sad. The Holmes fight is just grim. Gretzky was another one.

Hulk Hogan keeps coming back. Stone Cold Steve Austin is going to be at WrestleMania this year. I think it's hard. I don't put those in the same category, but they're not bad points. When you've flown close to the sun, and then you're out, and the sun is no longer on you, and you start looking around, and then you start talking yourself into it. You know what? I could still do this. Now, you know what? I could still be one of the best. And the other piece with Brady, the NFC is bad. He's one of the other things that never

gets talked enough about him is he's fucking smart. Like he plays the odds. He looks at the big picture. Like why did he end up in Tampa originally? Cause that was the best place for him to win the Superbowl. Same thing like LeBron in 2014. Why did he go to Cleveland? Oh, he's going home. That's not why he went. It was cause that was the best place for him to win the Super Bowl. Same thing like LeBron in 2014. Why did he go to Cleveland? Oh, he's going home. That's not why he went. It was because that was the best place for him to try to win a title for the next four years. And I think Brady looked at what happened in the NFC. Wilson gets traded out of there, right?

You look at the odds, like on Fandle right now, Tampa's second to win the NFC right now. It's Green Bay plus 350, Tampa plus 350, Rams plus 450, Niners six to one. And the Niners looks like they're going to have Trey Lance. Then Dallas, he could easily get another Super Bowl. So to me, it's like, we could talk about the family stuff in a second, but he knew he could still do it. And the roadmap to the Super Bowl is easier in the NFC. Regardless of which team, if he's on Tampa or San Francisco, easier path.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the AFC stacked with quarterbacks. I mean, you still throw Kyler in that mix too, if we're talking about good quarterbacks in the AFC or excuse me, in the NFC, even as bad as his playoff game was and him, you know, hopefully being able to buck this trend the last couple of years, holding up a little bit more physically, he just hasn't been able to buck this trend the last couple of years, holding up a little bit more physically. He just hasn't been able to. But does this mean you're not surprised at all? And does this mean that you also are totally closing?

All right. So, all right. We're in agreement on that one. I just, I'm not convinced. What about the San Francisco part of it? I'm not closing the door on it yet. Yeah. When we come back, let's take a quick break.

When we come back, I want to a quick break. When we come back, I want to talk about spending more time with your family. A subject that is just perfect for us to spend five minutes on. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

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but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. The other piece of this Brady thing, and we were all dubious because we've seen, we've been to this play before where the athlete or the celebrity does the, and now I'm going to have more time to spend with my family. I feel like I've done this riff on this podcast 10 times, but I remember when I left ESPN second week in May in 2015, and they were still paying me for five months,

and I had five months to figure out the next thing. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm going to figure out what I'm going to do next. I'm going to spend time with my family. And I remember nine weeks in, it was like, this is amazing. I'm going to figure out what I'm going to do next. I'm going to spend time with my family. And I remember nine weeks in, it was like a Tuesday. And I decided I needed to buy some soccer balls for my daughter so we could do drills. And I spent an hour Googling like, oh, where's the best place to buy it? I'm like, I'm going to go there.

And I go and I find some soccer balls. And I'm like, I need a pump. Oh, they don't have the right pump here. I'm going to find... It was like four hours. That was like my Tuesday. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? I got to go to work again.

By mid-July, I was ready to do a podcast on the corner of Hollywood and Vine with somebody. I was so bored. I love my family. As you know, I spend a lot of time with my family. You can still be competitive and do work shit. And you know, being with the family,

it's great, but you can still be a pro. You can still do stuff. And I wonder if Brady just looked at this four weeks and he's like, eh, all right. Spend some time with the family. I'm good.

What are your thoughts? That's always my football point of it. You just have like, if you're, say you're playing professional baseball, I mean, that shit's a grind. Normal spring training,

you're there in February, you make the playoffs, you go into October. If you're really good, you go into maybe November. You know, say you're an older player, maybe you have a kid who's,

you know, just entering high school and you can't go to any of his games. Same thing we have with basketball coaches. My favorite one is when the basketball coach steps away. Mutual understanding means you got fired. And then it's like, I need to spend more time with my family. Then he ends up on a local broadcast, somebody.

And you're like, dude, you're still traveling for 41 games. What are you talking about? Sometimes I felt like half the guys that were analysts at ESPN worked there just to get away from their families. They were like, this is amazing. Because think of the pro athlete, too. You have been on travel teams since you were a teenager. You play pro sports, if you're good, probably 10, 15 plus years.

So for your middle teens to your mid-30s, all you've had, I'm always jealous, not just about the accolades of being rich and getting to play a game for the rest of your life. You just get to have that many buddies around for that many years. It must be unbelievable. Buddies until your late thirties. Well, you have that, you know, some of those Kings guys, those hockey guys, they're just like, it's like having roommates and they're like 32, 33. It's like they have a whole crew. They got, they got a whole crew. they all live near each other and they just keep it going because then to be plucked from that to all of a sudden be like well wait a minute we can't just go to murphy's on thursday like what like right wait a minute we had a plan aren't we going to go to this right and now i think it's a harder adjustment for a lot of the guys that have that all the time and that's why you know sometimes i'd ask guys that made

millions to become friends with them at espn you'd be like why do you even do this like you really want to be here rapping games at 1am and the guy will be like hey i love everything about my family and i wouldn't trade train you know change any of it not trade but it's just nice to get out of the house for like four days and be up here you you know, see some of the other guys bullshit in the green room, go out to a dinner, you know, whatever, like those guys, you're just so used to having your, your routine trained that way. So it's just, it's something no one ever wants to say. Like no one's ever going to tell an athlete. Oh, I doubt it. I don't think that's true. Even if everybody kind of knows it's one of those things, it just sounds good. And people say it. And I'm sure there's things now that,

you know, when you're not playing any sports, you're not going to miss some of the other stuff. But look, man, you can't decide to come back in a couple of years if you leave at this stage. So in the FaceTime kind of digital era, I think it's a little easier to be away from your family too. You know, I remember the one time in my career where I just felt like I was actually doing a disservice to my family. It was like the first year I did Countdown, we were traveling. I was

really busy anyway, and I was missing stuff. Like I was missing my daughter's games and I missed my son's recital. And that's where you start to feel like... Do you think Ben cared that you missed any of his recitals? Ben doesn't even remember having the recital. son's recital. And that's where you start to feel like. Do you think Ben cared that you missed any of his recitals? I did. Ben doesn't even remember having the recital. That's the thing. But it's these memories you have of your kids at these checkpoints. And that's, that's where you're like, holy shit. Like I'm really missing stuff. Brady's kids are a little older, but I'm sure some of them are playing sports. So you, you start to default to that. And, you know, do you just want to be there for every moment of your kid's life? Or do you

want to try to find a balance or whatever? I just think Brady's, you know, he's been consumed by the goal of not just being the goat, but going down as like this career that will be talked about for as long as we have a planet. It would have been already. Yeah. But now it's like, if he plays to 45 and he's good next year, at this point, yeah. Does it even make a difference? I don't think it does. I don't think it does. But I think the difference to him would be, I'm not ready.

And if you say to yourself in an honest moment, you know what? I'm not ready. I think any of us that have had big decisions, like I remember, like, this feels stupid. But the couple of times that I could have left ESPN, I was like, I'm not ready. Like, be honest. Like, you know what? You're not going to walk around that place anymore. You're not going to see all the cool guys. You're not going to be, you know, you're not really close to your goals. You're not going to see Sir Rudy. Sir Rudy probably be thrilled. He gets all my boring rant phone calls when I have different ideas. He's kind of like my muse, like that girl from Uncut Gems.

But, um, I, I think any of us that have a major, major decision, you have to kind of like my muse like that girl from uncut gems but um i i think any of us that have a major major decision you have to kind of have the you know now we're not always honest with ourselves right because you think you can trick yourself and be like oh i'll be fine you know in a relationship i don't care i'm not even gonna care you're like up that i lied to myself and i think anybody and in this case brady's just way cooler and things are much more important. He's a lot better than any of this stuff than any of us are. But if there's a moment where he's like, you know what? I don't think I'm fully ready.

That's why you have to come back and play. It's so funny the way he did it, though. I'm back. Nothing happened. Tampa, let's get it. It's like, wait, what? What's going on? I have a, I have a semi-connected friend

who's convinced that Rogers was at least a small piece of this for Brady, who's psycho-competitive, as we discussed earlier, where, you know, you get so much attention, especially when you're as great as Brady, you win the Super Bowls,

then you win the Super Bowl last year. It's like, goat, goat, goat, goat. And then last year they lose. And then it's like Rogers, Rogers, Rogers. This guy's the best. You got to pay him. And that with all the young QBs coming up on the other end. And you kind of look at your own mortality if you're Brady.

Like, oh my God, this is... Everybody moves on. And that's what happens. It's going to happen to LeBron. Whether he retires or whether he's out. And all of a sudden, people are just going to move on to the next people and how you react to that.

So could that have been a piece of it too? Like, oh, now I have the spotlight again because you have to have a little bit of the look at me quality to get to that level. So maybe that was a small piece of it. I got a better thing for you though. If Brady had clutch, is he on the Niners right now?

Is there a football clutch? Does clutch have football? Yeah, I think they do. Brady's got a sign with clutch. They just gave him the Niners. Let me double check that, but I'm pretty sure. Maybe do. Brady's got a sign with clutch. They just get him the Niners. Let me double check that, but I'm pretty sure. Maybe Brady does the hearted.

He starts the season with the bucks, but he's out of shape. It's like, but he's off TB. Oh, so Rudy says they do have football. Yeah, they have football.

Yeah. So Brady starts training camp, shows up 20 pounds overweight, super sweaty, and just kind of goes from there. It's kind of playing, but there's just some quarters that he's taken off and just kind of tries to steer a Niners trade.

We'll see if he can do it. Hard to pave the way. Yeah, that's another. Well, I guess because this happened I'm not closing the door on the San Francisco thing even though it'd be a little weird you know if he's tweeting let's fucking go is it weirder than

everything else he did the last six weeks we'll see this story doesn't feel done to me I'm on the record alright let's talk basketball we didn't get to hear from Ryan Rosillo after Thursday night's Nets Sixers game because you'd already done your podcast. Your schedule was done for the week and we didn't get to hear you after a game that contained a lot of things that you love about sports and don't love about sports.

All in one. Some things were vindicated. Some eyes were opened in a lot of different ways. My big takeaway, and then we just watched Magic Philly today, is I don't enjoy watching this Philly team. The Sixers are like, you just don't like us.

I was like, can I just... I know what I like. I know what kind of basketball I like. You don't like watching him beat at all I like watching him beat Maxi I just don't I don't like the standing around

The standing around I don't enjoy So I know they're going to figure it out And it'll be better But I just haven't enjoyed Watching them since the trade But from what you saw on Thursday night Did you take change at all

Your thoughts On the big trade I think we get a hold off on the shack kobe comparisons fair i think that's fair um because as soon as the trade happened i'm gonna sound well i don't think i am i sometimes i worry i'm like do you when i'm about to make a point people realize that i'm actually not contradicting myself because i think they're two separate things i think daryl and the sixers deserve a ton of credit for getting hard, for sticking to their guns, waiting this thing out.

I think lesser ownership, an ownership that would succumb to the pressure. I think a GM that's a little, you know, a little, I don't know, just less solidified in their beliefs may have given in and taken back a lesser player. Can we all agree that getting Harden,

no matter what we're about to say about the guy, like getting him for Ben Simmons, who was never going to play for you again, getting him in return, like it worked out, ended up working out despite some of the depth and all the other stuff. Are we in agreement on that? Oh, come on.

I agree with you on the Ben simmons part okay all right all right i still i i haven't changed my opinion since i made the trade i i wasn't willing to consider this a slam dunk for either side because i had real questions about both of the main guys involved in the trade yeah i think i feel that way that's a really weird lesson in this trade it's not so much what you got it's what you got rid of yeah and you got rid of the Ben Simmons part, and then you got rid of quitting Harden, who's now quit two years in a row in almost 13 months or something like that. And has the most checkered playoff record of anyone in this entire generation.

So you're getting that tip. So even if I'm telling you I give credit to Daryl, it didn't mean I thought they were fucking perfect. It didn't mean that all of a sudden I'm looking at Harden going, okay, now he's going to buck this trend of over a decade long of failures. I went through the playoff failures again. I mean, this is somebody and he wears it on his face when you see it. All right. And I also think that there's times where people lose the playoffs and it doesn't mean that they're a mess. And there's other times where players aren't that great and end up in a great situation,

and then we somehow attribute them to being successful playoff players, and that's not really the case. I went through all of the Harden stuff again in the playoffs. 2012 finals, a very competitive finals, even though he had back-to-back two for 10 games, one for nine from three. He played 35 minutes a game. So people could say, oh, Harden was like six man or whatever. They played him all the time, except foul trouble in that first game.

And LeBron kind of worked him in that series. But people felt like that was one of the reasons OKC wanted to trade him because he was bad in that finals. And by the way, he became way better. Whatever our ceiling was for him while he was with OKC, because I think he only started like seven games during that tenure with him, he goes to Houston, he takes up

another level, becomes a much better player. All the credit to him in that. Yeah, which we were expecting if you watched them. 2013 versus Oklahoma City. Elimination game, 6. He goes 7-22. The worst one ever is maybe the 2015

3-1 comeback against the Clippers. He got benched when they made the comeback. That whole thing turned around by going to other players and then the Clippers fall apart. I was there and I watched him with a towel over his head, not participating in any of the cheering until there was about three minutes left. So the Western Conference Finals, which I always seem to forget about, that he made it to the Western Conference Finals on his own this first time,

against Golden State, he was two for 11 in the elimination game, zero from three, 14 points in that game. By the way, winnable series. I think people chalked that one up to, they kind of lumped that team with the team that went 73 and nine the next year. But that Warriors team, they hadn't really been there as like the favorite before and they were

beatable and they had Harden and they had Dwight Howard and they had, you know, I, from a talent standpoint, it was pretty even. It was just Golden State played better. 2017. This is one of the worst ones on his resume. The game six loss in the second round of the Spurs elimination game.

He had 10 points, two for 11 overall, two for nine for three. He walked around in that game where you were like, what is up? Was that the game where it seemed like he got concussed? Yes. Yeah. All right. But the problem is he's had that look a few other times too. And then it turned into like, oh no, he's tired.

I'm like, look, he just shouldn't be as tired because off the ball, he's not giving you anything. 2018, that's the Western Conference Finals against the Warriors. They're up. They lose game six. They lose game seven. Game seven, he was two of 13 from three. Granted, he had 32-6-6.

You had to have watched that game. This is where the box score... Four turnovers in the fourth quarter, the whole thing. If you watch that game live, you're like, they're falling apart again. Yeah. No, I'm with you. 2019, I think this is one of the terrible ones, too. They lose to Golden State in the second round.

This is the game six game. They're at home. The Warriors just lost Durant. You're like, look, they should be able to get them at this point. We might have potted after this game. When we did the Steph Curry pyramid. That's what it was. Yeah, we talked about this. Because I was in New York City

and I think I called like four of my buddies and they were like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm just in New York City watching this game by myself. And I'm so happy because Steph comes back. It's his biggest missed opportunity. 33 points for Steph in the second half, zero points for Steph in the first. No kid.

And this wasn't even about Harden's numbers. It was about, wait, you guys are going to lose to him after they just lost to ran. Um, 2020 against the Lakers game for whatever, two for 11. They were totally outmanned.

No, don't let him off the hook for that. The series was 2-1. They were home. And he absolutely sucked. He did. He did suck in that game, but they had no chance in that series. And then last year,

I don't even think the Milwaukee numbers against them when he came back are totally fair. He was hurt. The point is, when you watch these games in the moment, he's built up. There are very good players. There point is, is when you watch these games in the moment, he's built up, there are very good players.

There are great players that have awful playoff games. He seems to have a lot of him, a lot of them. And what's going to happen is when they get into the playoffs, there's going to be a guy on TV that goes,

oh, for his career, he's 23, 5, and 6. I don't want to hear it. This guy shows up because I've already seen it happen. And what I tell you is the overall numbers are very misleading for Harden because there just seems to be this component that's missing from him. And it was all on display in that Nets game where the Nets came in at a certain level and the Sixers with one of their main guys, not Embiid, in Harden. And you're

like, what's up with you tonight? There are far too many big games where you're like, what the fuck is going on with this guy? And I think the resume speaks for itself. Was that I talked about it after the game on Thursday night that you could tell pretty much six minutes saying where it was going. And sometimes there's just a competitiveness that seems to be missing when, when the moment of the game and the aggressiveness slash competitiveness of the game is going to clearly be at a certain level and you can tell who wants it and who doesn't. And it just seemed like Kyrie was like, I'm taking this guy's soul tonight.

And he was guarding him. He was in his mug. He was following him around on the dead balls, which I always look for when that's when guys really start to try to fuck with each other. They start following them around. They're just kind of in their space. And it just didn't seem like Harden wanted to be there. And then he went to a birthday party that night. But that's, listen, you're training for Harden. You get the stats. He's a wonderful player. He can play all

different kinds of styles. He can be a little bit more of a point guard. He could be more of a lead scorer if you need that. But you're also getting these nights where, you know, five minutes in, oh, James doesn't look like he's fired up tonight. And I don't know. Those just aren't my kind of guys. I hate, like, Durant. Durant was such a fucking killer in that game. And then you watch the Knicks game today, too.

And I was listening. Steve Nash came on my podcast in 2017 because I went back and I listened to it because he talked about new teams because it was the first year KD went to the Warriors and we were talking about the potential and he was talking about the know-how teams have when they've been together.

Because I was asking him about Dirk and Nash that first year in Dallas. Do you think they could have won the title? And it's like, I don't know. We hadn't been together enough yet. There's this know-how. There's this shorthand you have when you've been together for a few years. And it's weird, but KD and Kyrie, even though they haven't really played together that much, they still felt way more comfortable as a combo than I was expecting in that game. I was alarmed as a Celtics fan thinking, oh man, these

guys, KD, finals MVP twice, Kyrie hit one of the biggest shots in the finals ever and is certainly not afraid. And it just, it was an illuminating night. It was. And I think Nash likes his team finally. I think Nash is like, finally I like my team.

So I think my summary would be, I like what Philly did. I like what they did with the trade. But it doesn't mean that I'm just signing off on them winning the East. Although I still, even with my reservations about Harden, I don't believe in absolutes in life. I definitely don't believe in it in sports. I think one of the most dismissive things you can say about players is this guy isn't going to win, but you say he's incapable of winning.

To me, Russell Westbrook is incapable of winning. I feel really good about that. Even with Harden and the shit I just went through, I don't know if I'm... Because what if Embiid goes crazy? What if Maxey keeps this up? What if Harris showing up? I don't know about that part.

Their depth certainly is hurt. Like Drummond seems to be completely inspired since this trade too like he was super fired up and then it gets back to just no offense NBA Twitter how dumb it can be sometimes we're like in this past week it's like hey you know who's good is Durant you're like yeah because you know Harden was advertised as somebody that was in that that Durant neighborhood and that's where you're just going to get such an eye roll from me I'm like I don't care what your averages are I don't care what the PER is I don't. I'm like, I don't care what your averages are. I don't care what the PER is. I don't care what his VORP is. I don't

care what he did during peak Houston. If you think those fucking guys are in the same neighborhood as basketball players, then we just can't talk about basketball. The two guys whose personality have changed the most from like a agro alpha standpoint in this century, I think are LeBron and Durant. And LeBron, it started to happen during that second Cleveland stint and it finally culminating in the 2018 playoffs where it was just, it seemed like the 2011 finals seemed like a hundred years before that 2018 playoffs where he was just like, I am unstoppable. I'm the toughest motherfucker on the court. Durant has some of that too, because Durant, you know,

he was always like a little bit of a finesse guy. You could body him around. Felt like he could get in his head a little bit. I mean, the three to one collapse against the Warriors in 2016, like he didn't play well. It wasn't just the Klay Thompson game. We broke that down in the book of basketball.

It was like Durant and Westbrook, like they kind of sucked those last three games. They had a chance, especially game three games, they had a chance, especially game five. They really had a chance to just, they were better. I thought than the Warriors, the word banged up Steph, the whole thing. They had a chance. They couldn't do it. But now I, there's like a killer side to him and that you could see it last year in the playoffs and this year where I, I think KD believes I'm the best player in the league, which leads to the next segment we're going to have. But it's funny how many players

right now honestly believe that they are the best player in the league. Because I think LeBron thinks it. I think Giannis thinks it. I kind of think Luka thinks it. I'm not saying Luka is justified at all, but I really think the way Luka carries himself, I really think

he thinks he's the best player in the league, which is just, it's good for us because I like having all these guys who think they're the best. Oh, and Embiid's the other one. I think Embiid feels like I'm the most unstoppable player in the league. So the league's in good shape is my point. Yeah, I throw Jokic in there too. I mean, maybe

he just carries himself differently than those guys, but I mean, the way he comes in and just, you know, I know Denver's kind of had a bad week here, but I don't think the recency stuff like six, six and nine days. Yeah. It was a brutal schedule. It was tough.

Jokic looked wiped by Saturday. The, the golden state game. Wasn't great. You know, can, I thought golden state we'll get to this. I don't know.

Maybe I'll just say it now. Like they did a really good job. Attention to detail where I think golden state may have turned the corner here and knowing they're getting Draymond back tomorrow on top of everything else where their defensive attention to yokich to just say hey let's just muddy it up and throw a bunch of hands in his face and they were consistently on it but denver's coming off of that brutal schedule denver was dead last or two nights ago against toronto or was it i forget if it's friday or saturday no it was last night that's right uh that was you just like oh they're dead you know you know like a lot of teams you know maybe Golden

States finally navigated out of this terrible stretch where they've got a couple nice wins um you know they housed the Bucks at home last night but again I think back to your original point that brings it all the way back to KD is this is what I love about KD. And it's a lot of what I like about Embiid is we got to see some personality. You know, I rarely, you know, my first thing is if you're real and I get to know you, like, I think we know exactly who Duran is, even with the flaws at times of people getting on his case. And I go, I know people will always write him off because he went to Golden State and I totally understand it. So I'm not telling that person that they're wrong, but Katie's got this attitude slash joy that combines into one of my favorite personalities that I've ever seen play basketball. And that's why I,

I really, I'm annoying about it when I think like, yeah, when it's right, I just don't want to put anybody else ahead of him. I just don't. And then for him to have an awesome week and get 50 today against the Knicks and social media doing this cycling through of like, oh, so we're off of DeMar DeRozan

for MVP for eight fucking days. And now we're back to the realization that Durant guy is really good. And it's not everybody, but there's just a lot of it. And it, I feel like it's almost

insulting to Durant to be like, oh, you had to be convinced again. I love the utter disdain that him and Kyrie had for the Sixers on Thursday. They went right at Embiid. They weren't afraid of him at all. They made that really clear. Drummond was the most inspired he's ever been against Embiid. I don't know if it was the trade or stuff that happened during the Sixers or they just got him pumped up. But then after the game, I was surprised, and I didn't know this when Waz and I did our reaction pod.

Durant was asked, what was the game plan? He's like, we wanted to run them off the floor. They're slow. They don't get back on defense. For somebody to just basically say, here's what we wanted to do,

and it worked, and they have no answer for it, that tells me that he thinks they'll never figure that piece out. And I went back and I watched some of the first half on Friday and he was right. Like they, they just, the pace that they were playing Philly's too slow and Philly cannot handle that. And it made me start to wonder like between the fact that I don't love Philly's bench

and that they're slow, what happens when teams just do that to them? Are they going to have an answer for it? And then you have Doc, who I don't feel like is going to be able to figure this out on the fly necessarily. I would be concerned if I was a Sixers fan because you went all in. You talked a lot of shit. Well, for all the love right after and they were the first four games, it's just like the Shaq Kobe thing was insane. Insane, okay. But as good as it looked, it wasn't.

And as bad as it looked, an overtime win barely against Orlando. I'm not going to freak out and totally pivot the other way and say, okay, now they suck. It's concerning, though. It is concerning. There are ways to beat them, and the fact that their bench isn't strong

and that they're slow are real things. And when you start going, well, we don't have Danny Green. Like, okay, I like Danny Green, but Danny Green's not flipping this. Hey, take it easy. He's a good guest. Yeah, he's good. So a couple of other things, though, because it is a collection of personalities where I'm like, wait, which way am I going here?

And because I like Durant and Embiid so much, they kind of cancel each other out. So then I get to that next level where I'm going, okay, well, who do I like more, Harden or Kyrie? And I was like, well, at least Harden playing. And maybe the most surprising storyline of the entire season is that Kyrie got everybody to agree with him in March. Like everybody's on Kyrie's side now

being like, let him play. Let him play. Not Mike Wilbon. Mike Wilbon's on that other side. Okay. All right. Wilbon, we'll put him in the no category. He had a big meltdown today at halftime.

But then you see Ben Simmons, you know, where I don't know what the strategy is. I know what's been talked about and reported that it's like, no, have him go to this Philly game to see how poorly he's going to be treated as evidence for how untenable the situation was and go out and warm up. And you're like, all right. And then I'll admit, look, I'll admit if I were a Sixers player and Simmons is up cheering for something that happened,

like there was a play where Embiid got stripped and he was like up cheering immediately and clapping. He was like the first guy up on the Nets bench. I couldn't say fuck off fast enough if I were on the Sixers. Being like, dude, you're not even playing. It's outrageous that he thinks there's any chance he should get that money back. To me, it's outrageous. Stephen

talked about it today on the show. It's just like, you're going to get paid now? You didn't even show up for anything. And now you're okay and you're on the Nets bench? But I don't know. I just don't see... At some point, there's got to be some line. If you're just not working and you're not communicating with your employer,

there's got to be some line that you don't get all your money. So we'll see. It's very clear that this is going to be a protracted, uh, something lawsuit. All right. We got to take a break. We, uh, we're still in aggregate to our top five in one second. All right. This is exciting. It's become an annual tradition for the Simmons-Rusillo Sunday collaboration. Our best five list. Our top 20 best five players.

That's a great way of putting it. Because I think every NBA fan and people that do this, you should have to every six months do this. And maybe you do it like middle of the season. We're a little late on it. Because then you could do it after the playoffs and see how ridiculous it all is. Because I think in the playoffs, people fuck it up and they start doing these weird top 10 lists and top five. And it's funny that you say top 20 to top five, because I think I can go like 12 to 13 deep that I've heard argued at least for like top seven or

eight. I think the top four slash five are unassailable at this point, but this is the exercise. I make my list every month. And part of the reason I do, I just move stuff around. So the last time I made- Your top five moves around that much? No, I made my top 35. Okay. All right. And I do it every month. So I did it on February 21st. I had it on, what was, I'll read, this one is from, oh, I did a trade value in December. I just like making lists

because I like to see how it changes. So, when I did this, November 10th, best players right now. And I had Giannis Durant,

Jokic, Curry, drop off, Doncic, Paul George, LeBron James, Joel Embiid. That was the top eight. You had LeBron

behind Paul George? It was just best players right now at this moment. Not that not any big picture stuff. Just who is playing the best right now. But now I think we're trying to do something a little different now. We're trying to do the best players right now a little big picture-y thing. Yeah. Yeah. Let's

step back. So you have five? I had like a six. I think it might be six because the five one, I feel stupid, but I still think I'm right. And I think my definition of this, which is different from everybody else, is that for me to put you as a top five player in the NBA, there needs to be like a two year run of you having that. It can't be like this is where Tatum and it reminds me because during the Celtics broadcast, Scalabrini was like, hey, Tatum's top five. Tatum's playing as a top five player. So some people would argue that. But if you're actually saying like, is there any way you

could put five current players ahead of Jason Tatum? Of course you can. All right. And I think some of it is a little bit of sprinkling of some playoff success in there too. And then I think there's some other exceptions where John Morant has been so good with a team that's also really good and has taken it up to just an extraordinary level for him that then I don't have John, my top five, but I have him in that next group. So if I just give you my top five and how I do it in no particular order. Wait, hold on. Can I prep this properly for the social media breakout? Yes. This is our top 20, top five players. These are 20 top, top five players. And the premise is you are no longer allowed to say

somebody is a top five player if you then make a top five list and that person's not on it. We're just calling for accountability. Are you a top five player or not? You don't get to be thrown around. How about you saying you're a top player? Because it doesn't sound great when somebody has an awesome playoff game and then you go, yeah, he's like top 15. And the TV show's like,

asshole. Think about it. Jimmy Butler had his little run there where it was like, if you thought Jimmy Butler wasn't a top 10 player, you were ridiculous. Jimmy Butler's really good. He's not a top 10 player in the NBA. Devin Booker had that same little run where Devin Booker,

who hadn't been to a playoff game before last year, and you're like, I really like Devin Booker a lot. And this is an unbelievable run. He's putting up big numbers. Everybody would want a Devin Booker a lot, and this is an unbelievable run. He's putting up big numbers. Everybody would want a Devin Booker on their team. I can name 10 guys before I get to Devin Booker, and I think that's fair. Yeah, I agree.

Like Trey Young. Trey Young. Do you think if you were on a TV show, somebody would say like, ah, well, Trey's been great. Look at them. They got to the Eastern Conference Finals. Nobody expected this from Atlanta.

He's top 10. And then you're like, wait, you've got to keep track of it all. Because if you add it up, all the guys get thrown around in this conversation, the list is much longer. That's why we need to do this.

So go ahead. I saw, God, I really apologize to who put it this way, but I thought it was really smart. And I would give you credit if I could remember because I filed it away

and now I'm forgetting who said it. Somebody said, Giannis is the best player in the league, Jokic is the most valuable player, and Durant's the guy you'd want for one game. And if you think of it in those three categories, that actually makes sense. And I was like, oh, that's good.

So my apologies. I'll tweet when I remember who said that. But yeah, Giannis is the best player, Jokic is most valuable, Durant's the best if I need to win a game. Do you think Giannis is better than Durant, though? I think he's more reliably on the court. Well, then I can't counter that

because you're right. You're right about that part. But if I'm going to a game seven and I could have one guy on the planet, I'm taking Durant. I was messing around on the second spectrum today. And there's a shot quality breakdown that they have. Yeah.

And what you'll notice is they'll track everybody's shot and they'll kind of like say the quality of the shot. And the best players actually have lower quality shots because they're asked to bail out so many offensive possessions. Right. Durant's at like 800 plus attempts. It'll go up after his game today. So I sorted it by 800 attempts.

Durant has the second worst shot quality out of 51 qualifiers. He's number 50. DeRozan's actually had last. Wow. So of the 51 that qualify, he has the second worst shot quality. But then they do another thing where they go shot quality and then like expected and whatever and how efficient you are on the collection of all these shots. Durant's 30% better than Jokic at number one. It's so off the charts what Durant does in relation to how his shots are judged.

And to really hammer home this point, I was like, well, who's the worst? The difference between your quality of shot and your effectiveness on these. Westbrook has one of the highest shot quality numbers in the entire league because nobody fucking guards him. And he is twice as bad as the next worst guy in that category.

So he's far and away the worst below what you'd expect him to do with the quality of shot that he has. And it's twice as bad as the next worst guy in that category. All right, your top five. No order, Giannis, Jokic, and B. Durant. I really struggle with Stefan LeBron because I know if I don't put LeBron, he's going to end up getting 60 points in a game here.

He's at 50. It's a bad week to not have LeBron in your top five. But if I'm going with my gut, a guy I think impacts winning more, I'm going to put Steph fifth and I put LeBron sixth. My list was seven and I had Luke on it. Is LeBron on it? LeBron was on it

Okay I had Giannis, Durant as 1A, 1B Jokic, 3 And then I had LeBron, Luka, Embiid, and Curry all together So really what we're talking about is tears here. Well, listen. I don't feel like LeBron can do it every night. You watch a game like the Houston game,

which I know his stats were fine, but I just don't feel like Jokic is losing an overtime game to Houston or whatever the hell I watched the other night. But his best is still really good. That Warriors game I went to when he just, you know, his best is still up there and it has to be respected. I just don't know if he can do it for 100 games anymore. I know Giannis can.

Durant had the fluke injury. Jokic is like, doesn't see, he's just at the same speed every week. The Curry piece, Curry dropped a little for me. I had him seventh in that, but I had him in the second group, but probably the last pick because he does feel the Draymond dependency

was a real thing. I think when Draymond was out. And we just have to acknowledge it. I say this as one of the biggest Steph Curry fans on the earth. I just think it's harder for him to carry a team that doesn't have either a point guard,

point forward, whatever. And I don't really blame him for the last two months, because they don't have that guy. But it just showed how important Draymond was to me. Right. But the problem with Steph is he's 38% for three and people are acting like he's missing everything. I think it's a little harder for him to get

what he needs to get against really good teams if he doesn't have... He's not a point guard. That's the piece that I just think is the misnomer with him. He needs somebody to play off of. know he's he's a playoff of guy wiggins should have been an all-star starter so i think that tricks you into thinking they have more help i think jordan pool would be the second best laker right now if you're on the lakers i fucking love that guy and i love what kerr did recently you know inserting the lineup there

against milwaukee the reason i still lean steph because top five just sounds cooler right but I fucking love that guy. And I love what Kerr did recently, you know, inserting him in the lineup there against Milwaukee. The reason I still lean Steph, because top five just sounds cooler, right? But what we're really talking about is maybe a four and then five through eight. Because I would put Ja, I think Ja has been so special that in that group with Luca,

LeBron, and I would have Ja there. And if you want to put Steph into that second tier of five through eight, I'm not going to argue a ton, although I think you have to point out with Steph, no matter what his shooting numbers are and the slight lull that he went through, and a slump by his standards,

he still is impacting every single possession because everybody is constantly freaked out about where he is because he's just perpetual motion. So that has to be factored in. And our favorite teammate on the list other than Giannis and Jokic, I think there's just... He's on the great teammate list too.

So I have seven in my top five. So if I have to pick, if I'm just like, alright, I have to pick top five, I'm just going backwards. Giannis, Durant, Jokic have to be on. I think Abid, the way he's played this year, has to be on. Man, it's tough to take LeBron when his team's, what, seven games under.500?

Yeah, that's the other problem. But if Anthony Davis is there, are we going, like, this is ridiculous, you need to have... Like, I don't want to be disrespectful to LeBron, but I think that's how important those first four are. Cause that's maybe the lesson in all of this is that it's not a four. It's a top four. Yeah.

2022. Right now. I don't think you can really have anybody else crack that top four. I don't think there's a good argument for anybody else outside. Yeah, you're right. All right. So we have top four.

And then I had John Tatum and DeRozan right underneath that top seven. Because I think night after night, they've been able to produce in their team's win. Ja, the most successfully. But I also think Ja's team is really good. And I think that's gotten swept under the rug at least a little bit,

especially the stuff Jaron Jackson. I had Chris Vernon. That was another big win for him because I didn't really understand the Jaron Jackson thing until the last couple months. But I like that team. Jha's obviously the fulcrum of it. But Tatum, Jha, DeRozan,

those three guys are winning players. And I think that's, if we're going to do a top 10, that's where I'm finished in the top 10. And then I had CP3, Mitchell, and Booker as the next three after that. All right, so give me your... So you got Giannis, KD, Jokic, and Bede.

We're staying there. And then you got LeBron, Steph, and Luka. Yep. And then you think it breaks again. Then I think it breaks again to Ja, Tatum, DeRozan. And I don't know if DeRozan is going to stay there long term or if this was an aberration year, this is who he is now, but he's just done it too many nights and they've been missing dudes all year. And I think at the end of games, I love the shots he gets. You know, you saw today with Tatum,

the first time in a while that they went against an awesome defensive team that really exposed the Celtics' biggest weakness, which I've talked about here before. It's like, who is that second scorer? If somebody's just trapping Tatum or taking him out or defending the way Dallas is, who else do I trust on Boston to get a good shot? And the default would be, oh, Jalen Brown, he's 23 points a game, but that's not really he's not trustworthy to be in the same like with Phoenix. They need to get a shot. Chris Paul,

Devin Booker can get a good shot. You know one of those two guys can get you a really good shot. With Boston Tatum's the only one that can really consistently get good shots when it really shuts down like it did today. And that's what, I don't know. I just feel like when you go to that next level,

CP3, Mitchell, Booker, it's a slight difference. CP3, he's at a different stage of his career. Mitchell, where do you stand on him? All right, so this is really interesting because your DeRozan pick for this year, like DeRozan may make first team All-NBA. Which we're going to talk about quickly after this, yeah. Which I think is different than,

I think that should be totally about that season. These lists, I think, should be kind of about your more recent resume and not so recent that you're Tatum to get thrown in the top 10. You're like, all right. And dude, some of the numbers for him are nuts, except the shooting number, which is pretty low by his standards. That's the thing.

I feel like he could do better. I actually feel like there's a level for him to go up. But, you know, him against KD last week, to me, that's like, all right, you have to be taken seriously now. Whether you have him 10th, whether you have him 12th, 13th, he's in the mix now in a real way. So Tatum leads the league in defensive win shares right now? As a two-way guy, he's a real guy. He's 28-8-4.

He's only 19. So when I saw that, I was was like what is going like wow that you know that jumps out because you know you don't always love all the defensive numbers but it tells some good stories on the extremes there so i have no problem throwing tatum in there as let's say my ninth guy because derosen to my original point like for this year he's going to get mvp votes he deserves all those accolades but because this is still another level that's just still unprecedented for a basketball player to have this kind of career year at this age i'm like okay do i put him there but this happens i'm okay with it this happens sometimes though where there's an aberration top 10 season by

somebody okay let's say remember that year remember that year year? Jokey Noah was like one of the six best guys in the league. Fucking love that year. Remember that? Yeah. You wouldn't have said he was a top six guy for the half decade or anything, but for one year, he was one of the most impactful guys in the league and it counted and it mattered. Okay, but let's think about that's the Rosen. Let's think about if

we agree on to Rosen because I don't really want to 10th. I have a 10th on my list. Think about the normal guys in this group that we would have had. Dame, bad timing. Dame always felt like, even at the worst, because Dame was a guy, big moment. You'd be like, oh, this guy's top. You're like, okay, he's not that.

But I don't know. I didn't ever feel comfortable having Dame outside of the top 10. Kawhi, ineligible. Kawhi doesn't mention. I had Dame and Kawhi ineligible. Okay. Hard doesn't mention. I had Dame and Kawhi ineligible. Okay. Harden. Because we haven't seen

either of them really in a year. Harden is just, I'm just not putting him on lists. Okay. Who's been top 10 and deservedly so and creeping up to even higher rankings.

Did you see his stats this year? Yeah. Going into the game today, he was 23-10-8. He has the ball every single time. He's a really good passer. I'm just saying. Yeah.

He was not at my top. Who else? The Booker Mitchell one, I always kind of give the tie there to Mitchell, even though I like Booker. But then when you think about Chris Paul, it's probably bad timing for him because I might put Chris Paul ahead of DeRozan

because even if you go, what are you talking about? Look at their numbers. Chris Paul is a numbers guy. Anybody, DeRozan because even if you go, what are you talking about? Look at their numbers. Chris Paul is a numbers guy. Chris Paul is one of the 10 most important players this season. Would you agree with that? Even though his numbers would never put him in that group. I think if he hadn't been hurt, I would have had him one level higher, but now he's hurt. So I'd knock them down a notch. All right. That's fine. So I probably put Paul 11th, Mitchell 12th. That's exactly where I had him.

I had Paul 11th, Mitchell 12th, Booker 13th. Then I had a drop off. Because Anthony Davis doesn't get to be on it. That's fine. I had Davis and Harden, 14 and 15, in their own tier of TBD. Both guys. All right. Cause Harden could jump.

There's no question. Like he could go 30, 10 and 10 for the next month. And we'd feel stupid not including him. And then Davis, you know, right. I'm not arguing for Davis to be in there,

but if Davis is right, normal, like you would have bumped out one of these other guys. Cause I think he's a top 10 player. Uh, I clearly still like Anthony Davis more than other people do. And I might be the one that's wrong about it. right, normal, like you would have bumped out one of these other guys because I think he's a top 10 player. I clearly still like Anthony Davis more than other people do. And I might be the one that's wrong about it. Well, we have him in the 14, 15 range and he hasn't played in a month.

And he's kind of taken the year off. Then I have that next group. This would be my 15 to 20. Okay. Or 16 to 20. Bam. Or 16 to 20. Bam, Draymond, Butler,

Holiday, and Levine. And I'm going to defend the Holiday thing like this. I just think he's a winning player. And I'm always going to gravitate when we get to a cluttered group of like, can I win with dudes? Butler, the catch with him is why isn't he on the floor more?

I mean, nobody, just the Termini, friend of the program. He texted about this recently. He's like, Butler, can he play five games in a row? Like, what's going on with this? There's a durability thing with him that I think is a real thing. But he's still a top 20 guy. Bam, I think has a chance to potentially jump with the way, uh, how important he is in that team and all that stuff. And then Draymond, just his impact you could feel at the last two months.

I think he has to be in the top 20. So Levine was the one that surprised me, but, uh, he's really won me over and I know, I know you love him too. mean levine i it was a dicey relationship the two of us for a really long time and you guys worked it out yeah and that's what i i love about him and that there's all these scores right you'd love to get scores together but then a lot of times scores fuck each other up and the fact that he and the rose and granted you know Caruso just came back the other night, ball's still been out, but those are deferential players, right? Those guys are cool with their role.

And I think Levine and DeRozan figuring out how to play with each other. And it's still some shots going around because you got to get Vooch some looks. Yeah, I think Kobe White's been really impressive, asked to do all these different things. Io's one of my favorite stories of the season. The thing about Io coming out of Illinois, you're like, all right, what is he great at, though? Is he great at this? No. Is he great at this? The thing is, is the collective of him and that he's not afraid of anybody, that's the problem

with evaluating players sometimes. You're like, yeah, but you don't get it. He's not going to give a shit. He's immediately going to take the floor and think he belongs and he's as good as anybody out here and it's a good confidence that's going to get him through that maybe he doesn't have like a peak category do you think oh he's elite elite at this this thing it's just he's really good at a bunch of different shit and he has no fear so the fact that levine has brought in other guys where you know he was kind of big stats, bad team guy for a while. And now they're a winning team and it's worked out. I like your Levine pick there.

Nobody's mentioned Trey Young yet, though. And now at this point, you can't have him. You have him outside the top 20? I had him 21. The reason I wanted to reward Levine because, as you know, I'm a winning guy, Ryan. You are. I love how much he's enjoyed the

DeRozan thing. Instead of being threatened by it or like, now it's my turn or oh my god, DeRozan got to shoot again. He's completely in on it and he's figured out a way to just be good from his end. He's ridden the DeRozan thing because he really wants to win. I think he's gotten better

as an all-around guy, and I just like watching him. So you had Trey in your 16-20 range? Yeah, I do. Give me your 16-20. I don't have it in order here. I would just have him ahead of... I'd have Bam

ahead of Butler. I think I'd have Trey ahead of Butler at this point and I know that doesn't make any sense based on the standings in Atlanta every night you're watching him being like when are you guys going to be good you know yeah I guess that was two in my head with Trey I don't understand why that team is so disjointed and weird the Trey the Trey numbers are off the charts um yes defensively you know he's going to get picked on I'd say it's not horrifying as it was, at least statistically, on some of the stuff. And he plays every single night.

And we're talking about some, I think he's like top five in some of the efficiency stuff. So that's why. Don't sleep on us lighting a fire under him right now. Trey Young, you're not a top 20 guy in my book. Put that, those weird blogs that have the crazy headlines. Analyst says, Trey Young, not a top 20 player exclamation point and it's just an excerpt from the podcast that's somehow a blog post but but see this is this is why the exercise is important though because how many times are you talking with your buddies or how many times you're watching a broadcast you're like somebody

would say bradley beal's not top 20 like no he isn't no he isn't even when he's healthy um i had the guys on my list outside we didn't met no just like because i had 20 i had 26 i didn't have gobert you don't have gobert in your top 26 nope okay trey towns i really value jaron jackson we covered earlier. I fucking love that guy. I think he's kind of that next game. He's the stealth guy in the league now. He's like, honestly, he should be the defensive player of the year and there's going to be a

case building. Now there's, well, bam hasn't played enough games. I think he's, how many has he missed? He's missed at least 20. Yeah.

But Jack Jackson's been out there all year. And I just think the stuff he does on defense, I'm amazed. I think Siakam's played himself into the top 25. Bam's missed 25. He's not going to make it. That's my bad.

He's not winning defensive player missing 25 games. I just think Bam is awesome. I'm with you. But he missed too many games. I had Siakam just the way he's playing. It might be recency bias, but if you're just saying

best 25 guys right now, how they're playing, he's got to be on there. Same for Garland. And then I had Kyrie as my wildcard 26th asterisk guy. Because when he plays, he's one of the best 15 guys. But we haven't seen him. But that's why when you do this, you're like, okay, Jamal Murray doesn't get mentioned,

and it's bad. Well, he's in that, he's in that Kawhi Dame, Paul George. Yeah. Paul George doesn't get mentioned. Zion doesn't get mentioned. Yeah.

We have four guys plus Zion who are just, they're kind of ineligible right now. I know you're not a huge De'Aaron Fox guy. It's a bonus. Um, both the Raptors, uh, even SGA who,

you know, just relentless gets, I love this quote the other day being like, Hey, I screw up too. I don't get on refs the entire game. You SGA, who is relentless. I loved his quote the other day being like, hey, I screw up too. I don't get on refs the entire game. You're like, that's weird. The point is, is we go 30 plus deep of really good players.

This league is stacked. It's stacked. We'll take a quick break. Come back. Coming back. We did our best 25 players, basically. Top 25, top five players. I faded a little there at the end, I'll admit.

That's all right. Listen, I called a timeout. We regrouped. Kyrie as the 26th asterisk guy, and you mentioned the injury guys, but maybe Kyrie should be in that Davis Harding group. He might be that good. I think I need to stop holding the Celtics-Bucks series against him

and just judge on what we're seeing now. From a talent standpoint, he is that guy. He's 27 a game when he plays. And the fact that he's been able to do what he's doing this year when he's not even playing an NBA schedule, he's the guy that he's coming in the pickup game once a week and dropping 30. Does that help, though? I don't know.

Maybe. I just thought what he did to Harden on Thursday, I just had to, I was like, I gotta take Kyrie more seriously. This was a ridiculous moment. Speaking of guys that are tough to figure out, because Zion on last year alone, like he's not outside of the top 20 when

he's right, I would expect to be. Nike did his new shoe launch and they posted it on Twitter. Yeah. It's a new Zion. Yeah. The comments on that. Tough one.

Guy with the broken foot. Here's his new shoe. It was brutal. Yeah. It was, it was a tough scene. As the kids like to say. Quickly,

we're going to do an All-NBA segment every week until the end of this season. As you know, I love the All-NBA more than any human. Yeah, you like it a lot. There's some weirdness this year with the... Basically, you have Embiid and Jokic and Giannis and LeBron and Tatum and I guess Luka, who's technically a forward.

But there's just too many big guys. But especially if you think, we just talked about the best players right now. Can Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis all be on an All-NBA first team? What kind of rules are we breaking? Because you could argue Jokic is basically the point guard in Nuggets. So you could get a little bit liberal with that. I always like my All-NBA team to be a team that makes sense.

But it sucks for Embiid and Jokic that if you go by the standard position rules, and you should explain this better than I because you have a vote on this, but it sucks that one of those guys is going to be second in the MVP and then he's going to be all-NBA second team. Which is, that's happened a bunch of times. I mean, there was a whole

Chris Webber, Garnett, Duncan thing for a few years there. And then we've just seen... Then there was a Duncan, Garnett, Dirk thing. And sometimes I think they've gotten

a little more flexible. I feel like we can get away with Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis, which means I'm going to vote for that unless they tell me not to. But right now, I got Embiid, Jokic, and Giannis, which means I'm going to vote for that unless they tell me not to. But right now I got Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, I got DeRozan, and I got John Morant, and that would be my first team. Now there's 15 games left. That could quickly change, but I just think it's important to say, I think those are the leaders right now for first team.

Is there anybody, so Curry and Luka, i guess would have the biggest gripes for not being on there but i just think john derosen that has to be the backcourt right now all right but derosen's technically listed as a forward but this is where the all-star vote thing got messed up because i was trying to figure out in the east because i was voting for it this year i was like wait i'm gonna put derosen in the oh he's a back because they did it frontcourt-backcourt, split it up. So if they go frontcourt-backcourt, then I want to have Jokic on there with Embiid, so they're both first team

because I think it's going to be 1-2 in the MVP. Giannis is a lock for the other forward slot. So if that's the way you're doing it, but if you're not doing it, then that means you're going to have to move Embiid or Jokic to center of the second team. Listen, if DeRozan's a forward, this gets really complicated

because now LeBron has to go to the third team. Listen, if DeRozan's a forward, this gets really complicated because now LeBron has to go to the third team, which will cause probably a riot. I actually think we might have rioting if LeBron's third team all NBA. He can't get the spot over Tatum, I don't think. In general, I don't like the guy in the below 500

team getting a top of first or second team unless the guys just had an amazing season. Okay, but who would you give the second guard spot to? Because I agree with you on Ja. I'd have Ja ahead of all the other guards, but I'd put Steph there then.

They're still going to end up with good seed, and he's probably going to go on a little tear here to close out the season. I would put Steph there, but this is why it's so stupid that we... And look, we do, but this is why it's so stupid that we... And look, we do it on this podcast. It's on every conversation show.

And it's like, he's the MVP. He's the MVP. I just think there's a lot of work left in this season. Like, Luka could absolutely play himself onto first-team all-NBA if that team keeps doing

what it's doing and he keeps having the games he's having. By the end of the season, you know, four weeks from now, it could be just obvious that Luka has to be in first-team NBA. So that's why I think there's guys in the mix. So if DeRozan's eligible at the guard spot,

right now it's DeRozan's job, but I think Curry and Luka are right there, ready to take it. And then I had second team. I had Towns, LeBron, Tatum, Curry, and Luka. And I think that makes the most sense, especially because Bam's missed so many games and we've had so many other games. Then third team's wide open and will probably

depend on injury stuff. I don't think I can vote for Harden for any of the three teams after what happened with Brooklyn. I just think he, to me, Well, he hasn't been as good either. So that's... He's off. So, you know,

Booker and Mitchell and Towns and Levine and probably Gobert if you need a center for third team. That's probably going to be those five. And then Bubble, you got Butler and Levine.

Oh, I mentioned Levine. Drew, Jaron Jackson, Garland, Harden, a couple more maybe trey if atlanta got hot but that first team's going to be weird with all the size i don't know what to make of it so if you allowed to rosen to be a guard in the first team put him there with jaw i'm not going to push back on that but that's opening up the forward spot to put him beat on there with yoko gr all right so then so then that's weird because then it's probably going to be gobert because he just played more than bam has i i would have towns that doing the way you did it that way would allow towns lebron tatum curry luca as the second team which i think is strong i don't love not having

lebron on the second team if it, if it becomes a position thing where that's how it has to play out, it has to play out. There's seven games under 500. So you would, let's say everybody plays the rest of the season. I don't know if that's going to happen, but I do think, you know, for people that want to LeBron to rest, you were on this and you were right about it. He's going to want to keep playing and going for just throwing as many points as he can. You know what? It's shades of that year, and hopefully this does that with LeBron, obviously, but when Kobe

went on that tear, when he just started playing 48 minute games, remember that? And then he finally got hurt, but he was just like, I'm not coming out anymore, and I'm just putting up crazy stats. I wonder if LeBron's going to shift into that. I guess the real thing with them is they're kind of tied into

the nine seed no matter what happens. So if they were smart, they would arrest them. But I'm not sure, you know, like Brett kind of spot them, right? Not play them in back-to-backs, things like that. But I don't know if he's going to do that. I think he wants to put up stats and I think he wants to win the scoring title. And if I were him, I would want to too. It's 37. That'd be amazing. Yeah. This is the highest point total I would want to too. He's 37. That'd be amazing. Yeah, this is the highest point total he's had since his last year in Cleveland. The first time. The first time he was there.

I was looking at it this morning. So he's 30, right? 30 a game one year in Cleveland. Yeah, yeah. And he does that thing where it's like nobody gives me credit for my scoring and it's like, well, who doesn't give you credit?

It's really about Durant when he says stuff like that because we always talk about Durant, best scoring forward. I think he's the best scoring forward I've ever seen. LeBron takes that personally. But to me, Durant's a better scorer than LeBron. But you saw that thing that was going around the week after LeBron said that. Basically, here's the deal. When you're

that big of a deal, there are so many people that are talking about you. So they can find tons of stuff that they can find tons of stuff yeah they can be like no this is real it's not a straw man but the point is that that kind of fucks up lebron's whole position on this is then they found an article from him years ago saying i don't ever want to be labeled just a score and you're like dude you yourself did it and by the way the reason you don't get mentioned as just a pure score is actually a compliment because how amazingly rounded out the rest of your game is.

Right. No one, no one ever suggesting somebody is a better score than you. Like it's always, this is always framed as a positive. So him finding a way to get pissed about it, I thought was weird. And considering he was fighting for the argument that he's now fighting against years ago. So maybe that's him. Hey,

scoring title. We had a bad season. Look what I was able to do. I do think, I think his crew cares about this shit so much that that'll be the push. So I don't think he's going to miss a ton of games. So when it gets back to the all NBA voting, you know,

Durant's missed 27 games. Would you put LeBron ahead of him on the second team? I mean, we didn't even mention Durant. Oh, well, he'd be on my third team. Are you serious? Do you have him off the third team? No, I think if he plays every game,

I have... This is a weird Simmons thing. I'm not going to defend it. But to me, 55 games is the threshold for me. And if you go under 55, I can't vote for you on a team. I just can't. What if everybody's missing games like they have in the last three seasons? I actually, one of the pods I did

with KD, he actually got upset about this with me. He was like, what does it matter if you miss games? If the best players in the league are still the best players in the league, it doesn't matter if they played 72 games or 52. you're still the best. But to me, it's like, once you go below 55, you've missed a third of the season. Like at some point, durability has to matter a tiny bit.

I think it should matter. It should matter. When we did this last year and I went through the 20 guys that are in the conversation, it was fucking comical. Like how many missed games we were talking about. So that's the thing. That's why we can't judge it yet. But it's also why somebody like Jokic

deserves the love. Or Steph has only missed eight games. The Rosens. The Rosens played the whole season. Yeah, it's four missed games. I mean, you look at the missed games. I wrote all of them down. Durant's missed 27. Luka four missed games. I mean, you look at the missed games. I wrote all of them down. Durant's missed 27.

Luka's missed 15. LeBron's missed 18, which, you know, that could be part of the third team case, especially if he sits out two more. It's like a 62-game season for him, potentially. Tatum's only missed four. Morant's missed 14.

Jokic and Giannis have both played a ton. I think Giannis is going to win the MVP, by the way. That's my new take. I've changed my MVP take a hundred times, but if you actually look at the Giannis stats. Yeah, they're better. Jokic had it, but now it's wide open. But I actually think there's a path now for Giannis

unless Jokic can go on another tear. But man, I was really worried about him Thursday, Saturday. I just think the burden that he's carrying and the fact that he's actually playing point guard and he's just banging bodies constantly. I think he's taking more punishment than anyone in the league this season. I've watched a lot of Denver

because I like watching them. But it just seems like, man, that guy just is getting mauled. It's the best advanced stats, arguably, that Giannis has ever had. But the problem is... He has the same stats as Zabid with more assists. And he's, I think, a more impactful defensive player because he can guard every position.

Jokic still leads the league in PER. And I think because of all of his games played, his total points added puts Jokic at a complete... Because there's other metrics that are just like, hey, it's not really close, but we don't know how the rest of this is going to play out. I mean, it kind of gets back to your original point. Why do we do this?

Why do we do, but we just do it. We do it. It's the same thing with college football rankings. You know, people could say, oh, we shouldn't have the rankings until, okay, but then that just means somebody else is going to do the rankings and it's all going to impact the way we see.

What I think is ridiculous is when, in the moment, how bad we'll be. Like when DeRozan's going through this entire run, and it was incredible what he's doing in these 30-point games, shooting it the way he was shooting it. And then it's like you feel like an asshole by saying he's not MVP, but he's not MVP. Right.

And those are the arguments I don't have time for. I'll just go. I don't know when this started because I just don't feel like we were doing it this way 10 years ago when we were talking about the MVP after 20 games. I do think it's important when you set the framework of like, here's where we're sitting. Now we have 80% of the season done. And it's like, here's where we're sitting. Now we have 80% of the season done. And it's like, here's where we're sitting

with the all NBA teams MVP. But nobody accounts for the fact that Luka could just average 37 a game, you know, the last 15 games. And all of a sudden he's in the conversation. The KD thing's a bummer though, because, and maybe he has to be on, even if he only plays 53 games,

whatever he ends up at, maybe he just has to be all NBA anyway, just to commemorate the season. But I don't, I never know what to do with those. All right. I have a couple more things for you really quick. Kyle,

turn the camera. Should there be a win threshold to be in the play-in tournament? I'm going to offer you this. If you go 37 and 45, you've won 45% of your games. If you go 36 and 46, you're 10 games under 500. You've won less than 45% of your games.

Should that just be the threshold? You have to go at least 37 and 45 to be in the playing tournament. If not, your spot is abdicated. It's out. And I'm talking about this with New Orleans and the Lakers specifically. I don't think it's...

Like New Orleans might make the playoffs. They might be, what, 15 games under 500? And they could just win two games in a row and suddenly they're in the playoffs? Is that a good thing? Is that good to reward them for sucking all year? Is that good to have a really shitty team? Should there be some sort of competency threshold

to at least make the playoffs? You know what you're talking to, right? I hate it. Okay. And I don't hate it because I know that, yes, the games are entertaining. It's single elimination. Okay. But the whole point of these seasons, I thought, was to not have a team that wins 57% of its

games, have to then play one extra game to keep themselves alive while the team that won 40% of their games, granted, their chances aren't as good because they won the two to get in. But what's the point? What's the fucking point? We're going to have seasons where that seventh seed has such a good record. And it's like, oh, you're actually still in this little play-in thing. And it's all for extra revenue.

Me, my mission statement will always be this in all of these sports. Expansion to give teams another chance to prove that they're shitty teams is never going to be anything I'm going to argue for, even if the games are fun. Mr. Rusillo, I hear your points. I respect them.

They've been taken in. I 90% agree with you. I still like the playing games, but I don't want you. I still like the playing games, but I don't want to see shitty teams in the playing games. Well, you're going to. The Pelicans are 28 and 40, and Minnesota's 39 and 30.

The Pelicans are going to play the Lakers, who are now 29 and 37. It'll be fun to have the Lakers in the playing tournament, but that's a shitty game. You could talk me into like, if you're Minnesota and the Clippers, you both finish above 500, just put them through. We don't even have a playing tournament. The league

will never go for this. They love the playing tournament. They love the fact that it gives LeBron a chance to make the playoffs. But like Portland's 26-40, they're kind of right behind in the 11th seed. Portland's been trying to lose for three weeks. They didn't of right behind in the 11 seed. Portland's been trying to lose for three weeks.

They didn't want to be in the playing tournament. So what would happen if, like what would happen if New Orleans or Portland, neither of them wanted to be in and they're tanking to get out of the playing tournament. But one of them makes it anyway. Like how far does this go? How do we police this? I don't think there's a way,

which is why I think there's a way which is why i think there should be a threshold they got a tv contract out of it it's not going anywhere it's extra revenue and everybody can argue but i mean it's the same thing it's happening everywhere i get the capitalism is about expanding the business at all like just keep going and going and going baseball is another one right baseball's done it the fucking playing tournament for the ncaa tournament stupid you know and then people have argued to expand that nfl added another game is another one. Right. Baseball's done it. The fucking playing tournament for the NCAA tournament's stupid. Yeah. And then people have argued to expand that.

NFL added another game. You know, hockey and basketball have always basically had half the league in, but I'm never in favor of this and we're pushing the line more and more

where I'm like, I don't want you to have a chance. I don't want to have a chance to see you in there. I thought this for football too. I think you have to win. You have to at least go 8-9 to make the playoffs.

If not, somebody else gets your spot. I'm fine with that. Like, if you don't win your division, or if you win your division where we had those seasons where it seemed like a 7-9 team was going to win the division. And then they won their playoff game. Yeah. All right.

So you're with me on that. Next topic. Do you think Philly will tank To get into the 4-5 spot To just completely avoid Any possibility of them Playing Brooklyn in round one Or the 3-6 spot, whatever

Tank, no Because Doc had the thing yesterday About how they're going to be really careful With Embiid and Harden down the stretch They're going to arrest guys. And everybody, including myself, interpreted that as, oh, you're paving the way so that you just want to make sure you're not one or two.

I've said what I said last year. Remember all the shit the Clippers got because they wanted to avoid the Lakers? And everybody dumped on them. They're like, oh, it's not a winning attitude. It's not championship basketball. I don't know. If LeBron and AD were healthy,

and I can be on the other side of that until I'd have to face him later on. And then guess what happened? It all kind of worked, even though people got really mad about it because it was an easy thing to do, just make fun of the Clippers again. I don't mind the strategy.

I don't think they're going to tank. But if it means with two games to go, we start seeing weird lineups and somebody's getting a DNP out of nowhere because they want to try to avoid it. People could turn it into like it means you're soft and all that stuff. I don't know.

It doesn't really bother me that much. So yeah, I could see it happening. But I don't think it's just being shut down the next 15. Or not the next 15, but you understand the point. I think they will not be in the one or two seats. That's my prediction. However they get that to happen, that's what's going to happen.

I, you know, this has been around for a while where letting the one seed pick who they play. I think this is the perfect example of why that would actually be a good rule. And plus it would piss whoever the team wanted. Then you get that whole storyline of them. Oh, you wanted us? Now you're going to get us.

But the Brooklyn thing, winning the one seed and then having Brooklyn lose the 7-8 game, but then win the 8-9 game. And it's like, oh, here's your reward for the one seed. Here's Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. That fucking sucks. I would rather pick my team if I was the one seed. That would be hilarious. Somebody picks the Hawks and then all the Hawks would get real chesty about it,

be like, all right, motherfucker, you signed up for it. It's like, hey, you went 40 and 42. That's why they picked you. That'd be great. Do you think Toronto can pass Cleveland? Toronto 37 and 30, Cleveland 38 and 29. I feel like that's how this plays out. How focused have you been on the Raptors?

Can you do 90 seconds on the Raptors right now? It was on my to-do list. 45? I have it on my notes. Say, do Raptors profile, update, everything. Because Siakam, I never know what to do with him. He's a top 20 guy right now. Yeah.

No, he's really good. We don't know if it's going to last, but he's a fucking bit of beast. But then when you want him to be better than he isn't, right now. Yeah, no, he, he's, he's really good last, but he's been a beast. But then when you want him to be better than he isn't, and then it turns into like, I feel like there's these extremes argue about him. We realized like, ah, he's pretty good player,

but if he's your best player, you probably know that great of a team. Um, you know, watching Scotty Barnes run the offense the other night. I don't even know if that was about the Raptors. They got a million offensive rebounds too, in that game that the nuggets were so dead in that game.

Nice win for Toronto on the road. Put it together. They're 7 over 500 at this point. But I need to do an updated Raptors profile on it. But it speaks really more to Cleveland because I can't, as much as I love watching the Cavs play, Bill, watching Darius Garland try to navigate through everything

defensively at the end because they never know what they're going to get from marketing. Coral's just not enough offensively. Stevens is a defensive matchup guy, but they'll have him out there late. A little Ricky Woff for Mobley, just a tiny bit. Right, and Allen and Mobley are dependent offensive players, meaning they depend

on somebody else kind of helping them. And Mobley's awesome. I fucking love the guy. Jared Allen was out the other night too but if you look at some of their fourth quarter splits on the offensive efficiency it's just a grind for them and LaVert hasn't played not to say that he would solve everything but he's at least somebody you know can have a night and can carry you offensively in a fourth quarter that's why I didn't like that trade I wanted them to get Eric Gordon I don't trust

LaVert to stay in the court I watched that Lakers Rockets game the other. I don't trust Levert to stay in the court. I watched that Lakers-Rockets game the other day. I don't know. Did you watch that game? The Lakers-Rockets? Yeah. And Eric Gordon's like, I've got LeBron.

It's like he's kind of a rational confidence with how good Eric Gordon thinks he is. Eric Gordon would be perfect for them because they just need somebody else who's going to have to make, I mean mean forget fourth quarter regular season games there's just way too much dependency on one offensive creator and i love garland i'm so happy i'm like i'm because i really liked him in the draft and i'm

like this guy there's a little something to him i'm not saying he's kairi but it's like kairi lightish with him he doesn't finish at the rim the way Kyrie, you know, prime Kyrie does. But you just can see they're kind of easier. I think they're easier to just focus in on because you don't feel like there's other threats unless marketing is going to get it going or loves hitting shots. And Okoro, you know, is just limited offensively. I got to give you credit on Scotty Barnes. You called this last year. You loved him.

He's one of your guys. Man, yeah. You were saying you wanted him to go to a team that would actually use him the way you wanted him to be used, which he did. He's at a team that uses all the parts of him. I'm enchanted by him.

I was late to the party because I didn't watch a lot of Raptors first half of the season, but I've been gravitating to them and betting on them. He just really gives a shit. If we were going to make our top 10 who gives the most of a shit

awards for the season, he would have to be the Giannis or the Jokic of the conversation. He cares the most. And I think that's a really special... You know who else is like that, actually? I got to say, I wouldn't put him on the Barnes level,

but it's one of the reasons I really like RJ Barrett. I really think he cares. I'm away. We could do a podcast. I'm all in on RJ. We could do a podcast titled Adjusted Ceilings. Yeah.

You may open with RJ Barrett. I was kind of whatever. I felt like whenever I'd start to like him, then I wouldn't like him again. And I just had this ceiling for him. I'm like, you know, he's all right. Something happened in the last few weeks, the last month. That Miami game where they lost, just the way he carried himself, Bill.

I talked about it on my pod for a few minutes where he just has a look and a carry to him. And then, of course, they don't get him the ball the last two possessions today against the Nets when he had actually had that really nice.

They set him up on the right side and he curls off a pin down and then finishes with his left hand because going back to even high school, he was just so good finishing. And everyone forgets his lefty half the time he's always able to get to the to the middle of the paint with his left hand and sneak by people i'm a huge fan of his i think the next fan should be excited about him but scotty barnes if you know he's 19 and 9 now 19 and 10 since the all-star break his shooting is a bit. You know who else I love, too?

And Trent had an unbelievable run by a man, Precious. Precious is 13-6. A little frisky in his 20 minutes coming off the bench for them. And Van Vliet's only played four of their last 10, I think. That is not a fun playoff series team.

I really think we need to flag this in a hard way. Totally. I don't want to play that team as like a 3-6 matchup. That is not a fun matchup at all. Ton of size, can switch. They're going to be smart because Nurse is one of the best.

They're going to be prepared. They're going to adapt their preparation to you. They're going to fuck with you. You're going to have some game where you just like, hey, our guys aren't figuring it out yet. And you may lose game three and then you come back a little bit better. But yeah, I guess I and you may lose game three and then you come back a little bit better. But yeah, I guess I watched that whole Denver game and

I kind of left with all the things that I like about Toronto, but I just knew that Denver was just sleepwalking through that one. The thing to remember about the playoffs and I think people kind of gloss over this, like that Boston-Dallas game today, that's kind of what the playoffs are like.

Everyone's trying really hard it's a little sloppy the defense is really good and it comes down to some loose balls people fighting for whatever tipping, offensive that's all stuff Toronto's good at these ugly, slow

tense playoff I just kind of feel like Barnes is just getting a loose ball if there's a rebound off the back of the rim and it lands around the foul line and five guys are going for it, I'm just betting on him every time. I've never seen anybody with their hands on more things at the end of games. Like it's really, he's really good. I think this rookie class, I can't wait till the prison boxes come out. I'm going all in. The Cade, what Cade did in that Boston Detroit game

when he had no bench at all, he's played like 44 minutes or whatever. It was just kind of single-handedly carrying them for three quarters. These guys, these rookies, this isn't, I'm not going to say it's an all-time class because I don't think there's, I don't think there's a top 20 guy in it.

We'll see with Moby how, what the ceiling is for him. But I do think it's like one of those classes where you're going to look back 10 years from now and be like, Jesus, it's like seven

all-NBA guys in this class. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I love it. I love seeing what Cade's doing. And I knew that it would kind of take people,

you know, you have to watch him a lot to really understand. And then it's like, hey, can you fix us? You know, we fucked up a couple possessions here. Can you fix this? And he's like, I got this. you know you have to watch him a lot to really understand and then it's really confident can you fix us you know we fucked up a couple possessions here can you fix this and he's like i got this and that was the best thing about him at oklahoma state how many times he stepped up late and it's it's funny with him because you know jalen green has these moments and you're like oh

my god you know and i've been happy for him too since the all-star break like he's started to put it together granted shitty shitty team and he's got a bunch of other guys that have their own agenda, of Cade where you were big on Mobley. I remember right before the draft, I'm like, shit, I want to put Mobley one. And you're like, Mobley is my guy. And you've been right about it. But when I went back and I asked as many guys as I could that are in these front offices, I'm like, Cade or Mobley, Cade or Mobley.

And every one of them came back Cade. Because you're just like, that's, that's what you need. You need that guy. My case against Cade for, for Mobley was just, I felt that position was so deep. I didn't see the roadmap to him being an all NBA guy, but he's, I think he's better than I thought he could be. And, and guy, you know, Mike Schmitz,

who I think just has killed it for the last couple of years. He's on ESPN. I think we, both of us really respect him. He was, he had that one piece about all the shots Cade made in college, how this would translate. And that was the first time I was like, Oh, Oh, he, you see it all lined up and like, Oh, okay. The Barnes thing, as much as I love him, I still feel like he went to the perfect team. And there's a, there's a world where he's on site. Like if he had gone to the Rockets,

it's really tough to be Scotty Barnes on a shit team. He's on the right team. And sometimes that happens, but, um, I think you could build a team around kind of his energy and intensity where maybe he's not one of the five, seven best players in the league. But I don't know if I'm Toronto, I'm just, if I'm a Toronto fan, you win the title with that Kawhi trade and you feel like you should

have cratered out of this now. And instead, you don't have Kawhi, you don't have Lowry. This should have been a wrap. Gasol, Ibaka, that whole team's gone. And you're still lingering, and you're still in the mix. And I'm telling you, man, if Boston gets the three seed

and it's Boston-Toronto, I'm going to be bummed out. I don't want to play them in the first round. That's going to be a bloodbath. Anyway. Masai. Masai a bloodbath. Anyway. Masai. Masai is just really good at this, you know, and the OGs missed games. There's nights where you see all their dudes that are out there and you're like, they just have a lot of guys.

They just, they do. And they have a lot of size. I mean, other than Van Vliet. But, you know, maybe not size in the traditional sense at the center position because that would be the thing that you argue will actually, you know, that's

that's not where they hold up as well. But they got a lot of mobile. I should put it that way. They have a lot of mobile size, like guys

that are big that can do a little bit more than what you'd expect of some of the more traditional guys at this size. And guys that give a shit.

Well, that's it. You could talk about we left a lot for your next Russillo podcast. But the NBA is really... I mean, this is... What a great sports day this was. Think of all the shit that happened today. We had some good basketball. We didn't even get to Severance. We got

March Madness. I didn't see Severance yet. You ever watch any of it? I watched the first three. Where are you on winning time? I watched the pilot and I had Jim Hecton, who was the showrunner writer, and he was great. You haven't done You're Not Ahead? No. I don't mind the week-to-week. I kind of like it. And I think the industry is pivoting back to the week-to-week. Yeah, I'm in. I'm so in on the week-to-week. Yeah.

Because I'll get the screeners. I just want to watch like two and then I'll wait until, you know, America catches up because I like the week to week. Yeah. So I felt bad for Jerry West after the pilot. And apparently a lot of people felt bad for Jerry West. Well, a lot of people jumping to be like, are you guys kidding me with this Jerry West depiction? I think there's a lot of the show I really, really really like and i think they did an awesome job casting and everything but i to have jerry west be a day drinking maniacal fucking crazy person was a little excessive but you didn't see episode two yet no oh man you just wait which is even worse oh my god if you want to see a sweaty jerry west

uh have like pretty hostile sex with a groupie episode two is for you yeah oh my god so there was there was the backlash after the pilot did you read all these people being upset about it because the jerry west part? Just wait. Oh, they're going to be real. Just wait. Can't wait for the cycle. All right, Rosillo. Good to see you.

We'll see you next Sunday. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. As always, it was produced by Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Dylan Berkey and Steve Cerruti as well.

Thanks to Rosillo. You can hear him on his podcast, which I think is going to be going up Tuesday morning. I have two more for you. New rewatchables coming up on Monday night. One of the biggest movies ever. Me and Van Lathan are covering it.

It's not a movie you'd probably expect, but there you go. I will see you on that feed on Monday. I'll see you on this feed on Tuesday. Enjoy the rest of the day.