The Bill Simmons Podcast - Brazen Ravens, Evil Vikings, Minshew Mania, and NBA Trades After Dark With Cousin Sal and Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss the Ravens’ crushing loss to the Steelers, the Eagles’ win over the Jets with backup QB Gardner Minshew, the Lions’ first win of th...e season vs. the Vikings, Cardinals-Bears, Bengals-Chargers, the AFC and NFC playoff picture, and more (2:36). Then they guess the lines for NFL Week 14 (37:38) before closing the show with Parent Corner (1:04:49). Finally, Bill talks with The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor about their favorite fake NBA trades (1:12:33). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Cousin Sal and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, if you like football, I hope you're not just listening to this pod. Don't forget to listen to Ryan Rosillo's show, Ringer NFL show, the Ringer gambling show, and the Ringer fantasy football show. That's a lot of football. I think we have the best football shows. Go check them out for yourself. The Ringer Podcast Network. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite.
Starting point is 00:00:18 I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer.
Starting point is 00:00:36 Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend. It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not
Starting point is 00:01:13 grab some Miller Lites today? Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other
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Starting point is 00:02:24 Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where we hit our little underdog parlay boost again. We did it again. Finally, some million dollar picks magic. It took a little while. Check out FanDuel Sportsbook. Check out the Ringer Podcast Network for the best of football, basketball, movies, TV, music, culture, nerd culture. I don't know. We're just bringing everything for you. As well as we have doing some MMA stuff as well. Ariel Helwani, Pizza Carol, Chuck Mendenhall. They reacted to the UFC card last week. So if you want to check that out,
Starting point is 00:03:06 they do it on Green Room. Then we post them as podcasts. So check that out as well. Don't forget about the Ringer Wrestling Show too, where the return of Chi Pete, Peter Rosenberg, baby face turned heel, now baby face again. He's back with the Ringer. He's reunited with David Shoemaker.
Starting point is 00:03:23 If you didn't know that, check out the Ringer Wrestling Show. We have a bunch of great shows on there as well. Speaking of great shows, The Music Box on HBO. We've done four films so far. All four are available on HBO Max. The latest one was Listening to Kenny G
Starting point is 00:03:38 directed by Penny Lane. About as well reviewed as anything I've been involved with. Wow. Including a rave, rave, long gushing review in the New Yorker recently. Go check that out if you didn't see it. We have two more films coming up on Thursday this week. Mr. Saturday Night, directed by John Maggio.
Starting point is 00:03:56 It is one of the coolest docs that I've seen anyone do. High degree of difficulty. I don't want to spoil it too much, but we'll be talking about a little bit more on the rewatchables, which is coming Monday night because we did Saturday Night Fever because that's what this film is mostly about. But Jimmy Kimmel and I broke down Saturday Night Fever. You can get that Monday night on the rewatchables. So check that out. Coming up, The Cuz and I are going to break down week 13. I'm going to lick my gambling wounds and we're going to bring KOC on for a new segment
Starting point is 00:04:25 that we'd like to call NBA Trades After Dark. First, Pearl Jam. All right, Cousin Salas here. Just watched a pretty boring Chiefs-Broncos game on a Sunday night, but the day itself was pretty fun. And as usual, it had something in common with the last couple Sundays for me. I ended up losing money, but I don't want to start there. Let's start with the Ravens-Steelers game, which was the weirdest game of the day. I don't know what was going on with Lamar Jackson. Roethlisberger was half decent and Romo is acting like he's Tom Brady against the Falcons.
Starting point is 00:05:17 You know, this is a big win for the Steelers. Ben looks great. He had like 236 yards, no picks, I guess means he's great. It all leads to the Steelers. Ben looks great. He's like 236 yards. No picks, I guess, means he's great. It all leads to the Steelers scoring too soon. The Ravens somehow coming back. They score a touchdown. And then it's like, oh, fuck it. They're going to go for this.
Starting point is 00:05:34 They're going to do the two-point. And Lamar misses Andrews. They lose the game. Right call or wrong call? I think it's... I think it's the right call. I know a lot of people are going to be like,
Starting point is 00:05:44 you have Justin Tucker. you have the better offense, you have, you know, so what if the Steelers win the toss? You've been stopping them pretty well, except for that last drive or two. But the pass was there. I mean, it was almost there. It should have been there. It was a great, great play call, just not executed.
Starting point is 00:06:02 Good move. Probably Harbaugh probably felt, hey, my brother, I got this. I got this juice. We have what's opposite of the Cuomo's right now, right? Going for us. I'm just going to ride this. It's a bizarro Cuomo. Bizarro Cuomo.
Starting point is 00:06:14 I like it. Out of the Harbaugh's. But it just didn't, just barely didn't work. But it just goes to show you, it's insane how close those games are, regardless of how bad the quarterbacks are, how bad the offenses are and everything else. It's always a one point game when those two play. I know even the lines now, for all the games, it doesn't even matter if they're three anymore. Three used to be the demarcation line.
Starting point is 00:06:36 No, it's not. I'm going the other way. I think the last five years with the analytics going into just be more and more aggressive and go for two points more and just like, go, go, go. Let's do it. Be macho. Try to grab this game by the balls. And then on top of it, like the culture that we're in now where it's like gambling, gambling, gambling. Gambling is legal now in 18 states.
Starting point is 00:07:02 We talk about gambling all the time at The Ringer. You have an entire site devoted to gambling. I might shut it down, though. I might shut it down. I've had enough. There's like a recklessness now. Because if I'm the Ravens, I've won every close game I've been in this year, basically. I'm lights out.
Starting point is 00:07:20 I have Tucker. I have Roethlisberger on the other end who hasn't thrown a pick yet, even though I've touched like eight of the passes that he's thrown in this on the other end who hasn't thrown a pick yet, even though my, I've touched like eight of the passes that he started in this game, but I somehow haven't gotten the pick yet. And I just feel like I, I I'm kind of built for these overtime, go back and forth situations. And I didn't think Lamar was playing that well. Yeah. To me, that's like, yeah, on paper, it makes sense to go for it. I get it. But I watched the entire game.
Starting point is 00:07:45 Well, I watched most of the game. I have a story about that later. I didn't think Lamar played that well. And you're putting the ball in his hands to win or lose the game. I think he would have won in overtime. He probably would have won in overtime. I think there's decent points on both sides. But let's go back to what we always say. What do the opposing fans want at that point?
Starting point is 00:08:02 I think if I'm the Steelers, I'm shitting when you see Tucker come on, Tucker come off, they call a timeout, they're screwing around with them a little, and then Lamar stays on the field. I don't know. I think most Steelers fans would want to go to overtime too. Interesting, because of the fear of the moment or because you know
Starting point is 00:08:20 you think they're going to get it? Because I was looking at it like I was rooting for the Steelers because the Pats are now the number one seed in the AFC, which will last for another 18, 19 hours. They could lose to Buffalo and drop to four. They will. Or five.
Starting point is 00:08:35 They will? Yeah, I think so. Is that a snide remark? No, it's not. I'm just judging. We can go over this later, but just put the tone of our text and everything. You are way, way, way too full of yourself right now.
Starting point is 00:08:45 Not full of myself, not overconfident. We'll talk about that later. I was rooting for Pittsburgh. I wanted Baltimore to go for it because I thought if I went to overtime, I thought I was game over. Because Tucker in overtime is the biggest weapon
Starting point is 00:09:01 in the sport, right? You just have to get to like, what, the 45-yard line of the opposite side and you're in field goal range? I guess. I don't know about that. Could the Steelers have gone all the way down? The Steelers, it takes them 10 quarters to score 20 points. They were at 18. I don't know. I just would have gone for it.
Starting point is 00:09:17 I think it was just mojo. I think Harbaugh's like, hey, Steelers suck and my team wins close games no matter what, so why don't I just end it now? I don't know. We can go either way. Yeah, for sure. I'll tell you one thing, one magical thing that happened other than Roethlisberger leaked out that this was probably his last season. We could have guessed that. And then he had an okay
Starting point is 00:09:36 game and it seemed like a strangely emotional game because it was kind of the playoffs were on the line for them. It felt like at one point. I think Romo broke not only his own personal record, but the all- on the line for them. It felt like at one point. I think Romo broke not only his own personal record, but the all-time announcing record for huge play, Jim! Huge play coming
Starting point is 00:09:51 up here! He had I think 20 of 22 plays were a huge play at one point. Somebody needs to tell Romo to calm down like a notch. Just bring it down a notch. Not every play is a huge play. There's five huge plays in a football game. I think he gets excited.
Starting point is 00:10:07 Any quarterback over 34 years old is like a, it's a miracle for him. It couldn't last, but here we go, Jim. You know what I would like? I'd like is someone keeping track of the Howard Letterman versus Tony Romo. Jim calls because,
Starting point is 00:10:21 okay, Jim, he's becoming, he does say, Oh my God. He says Jim a lot in a given day. That's for sure. I don't know, Jim. He's becoming Jim. He does say Jim a lot. Oh, my God. He says Jim a lot in a given day. That's for sure. I don't know, Jim.
Starting point is 00:10:28 That's true. Maybe he inherited it from Letterman. Well, the Steelers are somehow alive. They looked like they were DOA. And yet, I didn't want to bet on Baltimore. Baltimore was the one thing I somehow avoided. If you look at the playoff picture, we have… That tie is going to come. It's going to be everything, whether for or against them. It's
Starting point is 00:10:48 going to come down to that, right? We have Chargers at 7-5. We have Cincy and Indy. Cincy's at 7-5. Indy's at 7-6. And then Pitt has this weird 6-5-1 record. And they've already had their bye. And this is just going to be super hard to figure out. Denver 6-6, Cleveland 6-6, Vegas 6-6, and somehow Miami isn't dead yet. This is kind of like, it's kind of shaping up this way anyway, but can we, because there's an extra week,
Starting point is 00:11:18 we have to pretend there's urgency here. Meanwhile, everybody's got five games left, and the Bills have six. I don't like it. Some teams have six. Can we just do a round robin for the five teams that are between the six and seven seed in the AFC and
Starting point is 00:11:33 just watch those play out the rest of the way? I mean, that would be great. I don't know. Miami could be the best in the AFC right now. I have no idea, but they're six and seven. I want to see them go against the Chargers and I want to see the Raiders go against the Braves. I just want to see all these teams go back and forth for the next five weeks and then we'll start the playoffs. So like an NBA play-in tournament? Yeah, for sure. Play-in for like a month. Well, if the playoffs ended today,
Starting point is 00:11:57 let's say for fun that Pats beat the Bills. Pats would get the bye. We would have Tennessee against Cincy. We would have Baltimore against the Chargers And we would have Chiefs-Bills Now, the question for me Because I want no part of the Chiefs in the playoffs That's the team I'm afraid of I assume Tennessee falls to four, right? They'll be our AFC South division winner
Starting point is 00:12:20 Who's in the four spot And then the top wildcard gets to play Tennessee who might have Derrick Henry back, which leads me to my next question. Who would you want to play out of Tennessee with Derrick Henry back Casey or Baltimore? Because for me, I, I it's Baltimore in a heartbeat. I would so rather play them than those other two at this point. Yeah, for sure. And if Tennessee has Henry back. And don't forget, Tennessee still has Jaguars and Texans.
Starting point is 00:12:48 So I know you have them as a four. Right. They can get 11 wins. They can get to 11 by accident against this schedule. Yeah, but the Ravens. The Ravens, I assume in a month they'll have that shine. We'll no longer be on them. Where they're winning these bullshit games.
Starting point is 00:13:04 And we saw maybe it started a little today, but although they do control the ball, man, that is something you want to do in January, right? They lead the league in time and possession. And really this was a close game. They should have won.
Starting point is 00:13:15 Actually, I can name three or four that they should have lost, but this seemed like one that they should have won, but just the same because they're the Ravens because they don't get it done in January. That that's probably the team out of the three you named that I'd want to play. Well, we call these the 50-50 games,
Starting point is 00:13:30 right? Week two, they won. KC, they won last second. Detroit, Tucker makes the crazy field goal. So they're 2-0 in 50-50 games. They beat Indy in week five in OT. So 3-0. They beat Minnesota in OT in a game they shouldn't
Starting point is 00:13:45 have won. So now they're 4-0 in the 50-50 games. They win that goofy Bears game in week 11 by three. That's 5-0.
Starting point is 00:13:53 They were due to blow one of these. Forgot about that. Even 5-1 in 50-50 games is pretty good. Didn't you used to lay it out like that?
Starting point is 00:14:01 Like good wins, bad wins, and then something else? Yeah, I used to until every win is a bad win now. I think we have like two good wins a day. But you think like
Starting point is 00:14:09 offensively, the last four weeks, they've scored 10, 16, 16, and 19 today. Well, he had like 10 interceptions and six touchdowns, right? Lamar over the last, I forget how many games.
Starting point is 00:14:21 It was like four or five or something. It's the least accurate he's looked in a couple years. Right. For sure. Every time he releases the ball, if it's like straight on to the receiver, I'm almost a tiny bit surprised. And their
Starting point is 00:14:34 pass defense, which Pittsburgh was not able to exploit today because of Roethlisberger, but I think they play Green Bay in two weeks and to me, that's just like Rodgers lights them up. It's very exciting, the AFC. It really is.
Starting point is 00:14:49 I will say. I don't mind it at all. It's definitely more exciting than the NFC. Well, the NFC. So it's just if this is any indication, NBC, you know, when they have some downtime, they show the playoff picture. And the AFC, I think there's 13 teams within two games of each other or 12 or something. The NFC, they just show the division leaders and the three wild cards and they're like, that's it. We're not even going to bother you with the Atlantas of the world and the Panthers and every other crap team that has a chance, but we're not going to put our graphics
Starting point is 00:15:17 people through that. I mean, Washington is the sixth seed right now. Right now we would have Arizona 10 and two. We would have Green Bay San Fran in round one. Tampa, Washington, rematch. And then Dallas versus the Rams. Now, you might be stuck in that four spot. I'm thinking, I've heard Dallas Rams
Starting point is 00:15:37 now for like three or four weeks now. I'm not sure that's going to change. I think I would want to play the Rams. I'm not thrown off the scent by them killing Jacksonville today. I think that the one skill guy, Sony was, you know, they actually needed Sony in the game today from a running attack standpoint. I don't see it with them. I think you could beat them.
Starting point is 00:15:59 I don't either. The Washington thing is bizarre because I think if we had said, if we had said there's going to be three NFC East playoff teams, everyone would have thought we were on crack. And yet the Eagles are a half game out of the seventh seed right now. And we legitimately could have, I mean, they all play each other. So maybe it's moot, but there's a world where we could have three playoff teams. It's really nuts.
Starting point is 00:16:21 I'm looking at it now. Washington, well, they went 17, 15, two weeks in a row or or Monday and Sunday. Between six days, they've won 17-15 twice. I still don't think they're that good. I mean, the Chase Young is your Ewing theory right now unfolding in front of our eyes, but they're a minus 51 point differential. I'm looking 246 to 297. They don't excite me at all. And you just look at, it's still got to be the quarterback that carries you to the playoffs. All right, they might make it, but Tyler Heineke, Tyler Heineke, I can't even say his name. He's not winning three straight road playoff games. Heineke's like a poor man's Minshew. They had some kicker,
Starting point is 00:16:58 some kicker they signed like a couple days ago. He's coming in and make a 48 yarder. I thought there's a 0% chance. This is in Vegas game on the line. I guess dome. Maybe it's easier in the dome, but I just didn't think it was going in. I was pretty confident. Didn't work for the Jets.
Starting point is 00:17:13 They just picked up off the street and missed two extra points. And they're like, all right, we don't need to see you the rest of the day. He missed his first two extra points and then they should have just sent him home. Yeah. I mean, they went for two every time. Well, they didn't get many opportunities after that,
Starting point is 00:17:28 but that was it. We've led the league in, or led out of any season. I think we've had the most picked up the street kickers where the announcer is like, here's Sal. Yeah. Signed on Saturday. They just threw him out there.
Starting point is 00:17:41 He has to borrow a friend's uniform. I still don't get it. Why kicking has gotten worse? Well, it's just that we don't make enough of a big deal about it. People are so hung on, like, why can't 32 players play the quarterback position? It's like, well, you have to learn a playbook. You have to get used to speed, defensive speed. You have to get used to your own guy's routes and everything.
Starting point is 00:18:00 Kicking is kind of the same thing, right? You move to the left two steps. You take an approach at two steps, you take an approach at the ball and you try to drive it through the middle. Why can't 40, 50, 100 people do this? Well, when I moved to LA to work with our cousin, you had a friend who was a kicker who was dabbling in, what was it? He was an XFL or what were the leagues he was in? Yeah, no, he was in Arena League too. The second Arena League, yeah. And it was like, maybe I could get a chance.
Starting point is 00:18:28 He would go try out. And you wonder how many Stephen Greens are out there every year. Are there like 200 guys like that? Right. I don't know. I don't know why everyone's missing 32-yard field goals, which are extra points. I still feel like the road has been paved for the female kicker.
Starting point is 00:18:47 There's got to be some ex-soccer player like Carly Lloyd. And then she had the kick like a year ago. But if they're going to be around the same as these people that would be pulling off the street and you're like a 2-10 team, why not? It'd be the most exciting thing your team could do for the entire season. If you were like the freaking Texans, why not? Let's say it'd be the most exciting thing your team could do for the entire season. If you were like the freaking Texans, why not? Why not? Carly Lloyd for three, four questions. Cause like, I don't know the purist and the chauvinist will be like, well,
Starting point is 00:19:15 what if she has to make a tackle? It's like, well, we saw Teddy Bridgewater not make a tackle and then not make another tackle tonight. I don't know what the hell. We've seen lots of people not be able to make tackles. Exactly. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:19:24 It's fine. But if you're worried about a tackle, like go like somebody in the back line, like somebody who is like a sweeper or a back forward
Starting point is 00:19:31 or whatever. Yeah, man, woman, whatever. Just get someone who can kick. Just, if we're going to have bad kickers, at least give them better backstories.
Starting point is 00:19:39 It's screwing up all my bets. I'm having, I take plus seven and a half adjusted lines and everyone's down eight because they don't have a kicker who can sit straight.
Starting point is 00:19:48 All right. We're going to talk about Minshew. Let's take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support
Starting point is 00:20:10 mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right, Sal. I didn't have a lot go right for me today, but my guy Minshew finally got a chance for the Eagles. This was the guy that I was completely unironically serious that if we didn't get Mac Jones in the draft, I wanted them to trade for Minshew. And I was confident that he could lead us to the playoffs. He bounces around.
Starting point is 00:20:48 They take Trevor Lawrence. Nobody wants him. The Steelers go into a season with Roethlisberger, who was washed up last year, and Mason Rudolph as the backup, and a pretty good team that is like a playoff team, basically, with a headless horseman type of situation. They don't even want to give up
Starting point is 00:21:03 a fit for him. Philly's like, all right, we'll trade for him. They told the story during the game today that the coaching staff of Philly right now went against him when they were at Indy and he lit them up and had like one incompletion and they were like, followed it away. So anyway, he lounges around. It's week 13.
Starting point is 00:21:18 He finally gets his chance. Now, granted, it was the Jets, but you can't tell me he's not one of like the best, I don't know, 20 quarterbacks in the league. If he's on the Browns right now, are the Browns better? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have to say, when I first saw the praise from Minshew on Twitter
Starting point is 00:21:38 and on our text chains, I'm like, you know, this is mean-spirited. You're having a little fun with this, but you don't actually mean. You don't like it. You're just trying to rally. And then I'm like, well,, this is mean spirited. You're having a little fun with this, but you don't actually mean. You don't like it. You're just trying to rally. And then I'm like, well, 28 teams ought to be ashamed of themselves for not signing him as their backup. That's my bottom line. And my other bottom line is something you mentioned earlier.
Starting point is 00:21:56 Granted, it's the Jets. So let's just remember that. Here's the thing. If I'm trading second round pick for Sam Darnold and I'm trading for Teddy Bridgewater and I'm trading second round pick for Sam Darnold and I'm trading for Teddy Bridgewater and I'm trading a conditional first for Carson Wentz and I could just get Minshew for nothing, who's produced everywhere he's gone.
Starting point is 00:22:13 And now his career stats are 39 TDs, 11 picks for his career in the NFL. And these teams, I just don't understand it. Plus, even today you can see like his teammates love him. I don't know if he's probably not going to start next week, but I had some Eagles fans in my text who were like, whoa, we can finally use our whole playbook and those kind of jokes because they're running screens,
Starting point is 00:22:34 the ball was on time, and I thought their offense looked better than their defense. But it's just so weird to me that everybody spends so much time trying to figure out a quarterback, and Mack Jones falls to 15. We saw Denver tonight. They scored nine points with Teddy Bridgewater. Actually playing good defense in a big spot.
Starting point is 00:22:53 Did what he usually does. And there's Minshew. And they passed Mac Jones. They passed on him. They took Sertan, who's good. But I just can't believe this is the one position you can't fuck up. And these teams over and over again, gravitate to the wrong guys.
Starting point is 00:23:08 No, I'm with you. Now there are some Eagle fans. They're like, Oh, we're 11 and two with him. And if we sit jail and hurts, I don't think that's true,
Starting point is 00:23:15 but, uh, he brings good energy and you see it in the parking lot afterwards with his father. That was, that was great. Um, and it's fun,
Starting point is 00:23:23 but it begs the question, is there another one out there? Is Marcus Mariota another Gardner Minshew? He might be. Why isn't he in there? Yeah, he might be. I think if you look at Minshew's history, putting up the giant stats in college
Starting point is 00:23:36 sometimes means nothing. Other times, it might mean something. Some guys are just good at stuff, right? Yeah. Same thing in basketball. Sometimes there are guys who just have scored at every level of basketball, and then they get to the pros, and eventually somebody starts playing on them, and they The same thing in basketball. Sometimes there are guys who just have scored at every level of basketball and then they get to the pros and eventually somebody
Starting point is 00:23:48 starts playing on them and they score. He's good. I don't understand. Sometimes, though, this happens with Geno Smith. Had a great game that Thursday night against the Rams and they came up short. And then there's been tape on Geno Smith, but I don't know. Do they lose it? Do the coaching staffs lose VCR tapes or something?
Starting point is 00:24:04 Oh, wait, we found it. We found the Geno lose VCR tapes or something like, Oh, Oh wait, we found it. We found the Gino Smith. He'll be back to throwing three picks next week. So, uh, I don't know how crazy I want to go about Minshew, but it's fun to have them as a backup for sure. I'm going to go crazy.
Starting point is 00:24:15 I own beachfront property of Minshew Island and everyone's invited to come hang out because Minshew is my guy. I think he's going to end up on the Steelers next year and it's going to piss me off because it'll be like, Oh my God, what a gem. Perfect Mike Coleman quarterback. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:24:29 I could totally see him on a team like that or the Browns. If you're the Browns, would you rather pay $35 million a year for Baker or would you just rather have Minshew? No, I'd rather have Minshew,
Starting point is 00:24:39 but that's a tough pill to swallow for the fans. You got to convince them to get excited for that. Some of these fans just don't want even a half a year of rebuilding. But I'm with you. I'd rather... I don't know if it's a rebuild. I wouldn't want to pay Baker
Starting point is 00:24:52 that much. All right. So that was my big win. All right. The big loss. We talked last week. You did the lines. And I was like, please don't let me put Minnesota in a tease. Please don't. Please don't do it. You went to God.
Starting point is 00:25:07 You actually looked up. I asked for the strength. I couldn't fight it off. Did it on million-dollar picks. Put them in two of our three big teaser bets. You know what it is, Schrager? It's teaser week. It's teaser week.
Starting point is 00:25:18 I was like, what the hell am I watching? Four days ago, it was like, no, no, no. We're staying away from this. You're praying to God. Like, what is this? I couldn't get you to pick two teams. Every teaser hit except this stupid Vikings team. I've watched, I think, more Vikings games
Starting point is 00:25:30 than anyone other than the Pats. For some reason, I have money on them every week. I have fantasy guys. And they spend a whole half. Mike Zimmer, I think by the time people hear this, will probably be fired. Really? I thought that was a fireable game. Wow. It's a fireable game.
Starting point is 00:25:46 Whole first half, they're rarely blitzing. Goff is like a pretty open book. It's like if you blitz Goff, he's completely helpless. If you let him stand in there, he can actually be relatively accurate. So they start blitzing him. All of a sudden, Goff is completely
Starting point is 00:26:01 helpless. They make this huge comeback. They miss the two-point conversion on one of the worst plays I. They make this huge comeback. They missed a two-point conversion on one of the worst plays I've ever seen in my life. They missed another two-point conversion. They ended up missing three two-point conversions. They scored four touchdowns and two field goals and ended up with 27 points or whatever it was.
Starting point is 00:26:17 Or four touchdowns, one field goal. But anyway, they finally get this touchdown. They cover the tees. There's a minute and a half left The Lions are going to lose again It's Jared Goff A bunch of receivers I've never heard of in my life They go into a pre-vent
Starting point is 00:26:36 And just let him throw a 10-yard All of a sudden it's like, nah, we're not going to blitz him anymore 10-yard passes, moves on down the field He gets to the 20-yard line with like 12 seconds left. Huge cushion. Guy gets out of bounds to the 11. It's like, alright, now this is like, you can fire these in. Eight defensive backs,
Starting point is 00:26:53 four of whom are like protecting the Hail Mary, even though they're on the 10-yard line. The other two are playing so far off that the guy who gets the winning touchdown just does a quick curl. Right. And nobody touches him. He catches it.
Starting point is 00:27:07 He's not even touched. It's the worst defense I've ever seen. It was really bad. It was up there with the Jets Raiders, right? When the Jets were winless last year and they just let a fly pattern go. Yeah, but that looked fixed. Yeah, that looked like almost like that was. No, it looked like that was fixed.
Starting point is 00:27:23 This is Minnesota's trying to go six and six. I know. I know. You're right. It's Jared Goff. Just put some. No, it looked like that was fixed. This is Minnesota's trying to go six and six. I know. I know. You're right. It's Jared Goff. I don't know what to say. Just put some. No, it's our fault.
Starting point is 00:27:29 He's going to panic. It's our. You can blame Zimmer. You can blame. Is it Patterson? Is the other defensive coordinator or something? I think they're co-defensive coordinators or something. Or you can blame us on the text chain.
Starting point is 00:27:40 We were having a lot of fun at Jared Goff's expense. We were with Dan Campbell. We were going off about those two, how funny it is. Those guys are never going to get it done. Goff was trying. He threw a pick. He had the fourth and one. He had to ad-lib. It ended up being a fumble.
Starting point is 00:27:55 The Vikings get it. Leads to the touchdown. And then, I mean, Zimmer, there's like four seconds left. Play goes out of bounds. Zimmer calls timeout. Right. Because let's give the Lions like three minutes to think about exactly what they want to do here.
Starting point is 00:28:11 Comes out of the timeout with eight defensive backs in the end zone, none of whom were actually defending the end zone. Yeah. And then if you look at the play, somebody's committing pass interference in the middle of the field that they probably would have called if it wasn't a touchdown. I just, I can't believe this is professional football. This was their whole season.
Starting point is 00:28:27 I don't think they practiced all week for a, all right, let's pretend that Jared Goff has the ball down with a chance to win from the 10 yard line. Like, ah, let's skip that. Let's do onside kicks or let's do something fun or something. I don't know what happened there. I mean, obviously I had them on the teaser too. So that, uh, yeah, that blew big time, mean, obviously, I had them on the teaser too. So that blew big time. But yeah,
Starting point is 00:28:47 maybe he does get fired. What more do you need to see anymore? I'd need to see nothing. They've missed their last four two-point conversions. They've blown... They've lost seven games. Six of them, they easily could have won if they made one play. Like one play. Not even like three plays. It's like one play per game.
Starting point is 00:29:04 I was so mad because we just can't get momentum, a million dollar picks. I was mad about my bets. They ruined, I had Dallas attached to them. And that, so that Dallas game goes away. I had the Eagles attached to them. That went away. I was so mad. I left, I left my house. You left your house? Yeah. What does that I drove to the cryo place and I froze for three minutes and 15 seconds. Did you really? Yeah, I wanted to inflict pain on myself. I just sat there in a freezing cryo chamber,
Starting point is 00:29:32 minus 240, and just thought about Kirk Cousins as I froze to death. And I was like, if I die right now, blame Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff. I don't even know how to unpack that. You spent more on cryo
Starting point is 00:29:44 than you did losing that teaser, I'm sure. I got a subscription. I went and cryo'd my ass off. Instead of crying, I cryo'd. It was a cryo game. I missed the first half of all the second games. I was so mad, I just left. Kirk Cousins is driving gamblers to cryo.
Starting point is 00:30:02 Kirk Cousins, Sherry Goff, Mike Zimmer. And then I'm texting my friend, the Vikings fan, Jeff Galla, who won't watch the game. And I'm like, you got to see this defense in the last play. He's like, fine. And then like 20 minutes later, he texts me back. I just watched it 15 times in a row. What defense was that?
Starting point is 00:30:18 I was like, I don't know. It was the defense where the guy runs right in front of you and gets the game-winning touchdown when they're on the 12-yard line. That was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. Are Cousins and Goff the most hated quarterbacks in the league in terms of screwing up bets
Starting point is 00:30:33 for people? I'm trying to think if there's another. Cousins has to be one. But if there's two that were to match up, it's those two. Or is it Stafford in there? I don't know. Goff doesn't screw up bets. I guess usually win on Goff. People aren't betting Goff. I mean, the great thing about the game today is you have the Vikings
Starting point is 00:30:49 and they're down 14. You're like, all right. It's fine. We got Goff. It's like you have like a mole on the inside. We got Goff. Goff will take care of us. The Lions were minus 310 to win. I was like, this is a mistake. I don't care if it even loses. I can't. We have to go the other way with this. Well, and then after the Vikings score, this is a mistake. I don't care if it even loses. I can't. We have to go the other way with this.
Starting point is 00:31:05 Well, and then after the Vikings score, they're up four. They could have been up six, but they missed the two-point again. I think the Lions were like plus 310 or plus 350 maybe. Oh, when the Vikings were up. Yeah. When the Vikings were up.
Starting point is 00:31:21 Right. Would have been an easy hedge, but it's like who in their right mind is going to hedge with Jared Goff with one timeout? That's it. And Campbell wasted one of his timeouts,
Starting point is 00:31:28 so they had like no timeouts left for the last drive. Mm-hmm. It was, I know the Vikings, the Vikings fans. Listen, you, Kalief Raymond,
Starting point is 00:31:36 Amon Ross, St. Brown, Brock Wright, Godwin Igwebleke. Amon Ross, St. Brown was unbelievable in the last drive. He looked like
Starting point is 00:31:44 Wes Welker in 2007. I picked him up and played him on Thanksgiving, maybe even against you in fantasy. He did shit, of course. So, yeah, no, he had 10 receptions today. Well, anyway, the Lions are out to Schneid. We should have known. Yep.
Starting point is 00:31:59 This is where I tell you to inflict bodily harm on me if I ever put the Vikings in anything. The problem is teasing a team like that. I know better. I just thought the lines were done. And then I get into this Dan Campbell, Mike Zimmer chess match, which was like a drunk chess match. Mike Zimmer, please just move on with your life.
Starting point is 00:32:21 Don't stop torturing the Viking fans and gamblers everywhere. Mike Zimmer's doing okay. Did you see the supermodel he's dating right now? I did. He's doing fine. Let's not feel so bad for him anymore. Maybe she could
Starting point is 00:32:32 maybe she could help him on defense from the 12 yard line. Not so fast. You're going to have to pick them. I know you like action and they play the Steelers
Starting point is 00:32:41 this Thursday. I know. What are you going to pick? Big Ben? Come on. That game the combo of Big Ben? Come on. That game, the combo of Big Ben versus Cousins. Maybe those are the two most... And Thursday night,
Starting point is 00:32:51 the stay away day. Just don't bet Thursday nights ever. I'm not betting on that game. Before we do Guess the Lions, let's talk about the cards. The cards are 10 and 2. They've won all seven road games by 10 points or more. And I haven't heard them ever mentioned in any sort of super bowl conversation i think most people are thinking now it's pat's chiefs or bill's chiefs pack bucks maybe cowboys is a sleeper and then people like oh yeah and the cardinals
Starting point is 00:33:18 so here's the oh yeah team well i don't think people know what they're looking at with the cardinals because their defense is actually better than their offense and kylo murray before today hadn't played in a month and they're like i don't know they just have to kind of go away so but this morning i had a talk with myself because i've been hemorrhaging just money just left and right on the college and everything and i and i was like i can't do this week to week i gotta have monster future bets to put in and and that'll be my thing. Now, trust me, I lost enough money today. This plan didn't work for like 40 minutes,
Starting point is 00:33:51 including your Vikings on a teaser. But I threw a team out there. I said, I'm taking Packers, Bucs. I'm taking Patriots, Chiefs, and I'm going to pretend the Bills and the Cardinals don't exist. And if my team makes it, that's great, the Cowboys. But I made every combination with those four. And I feel good about it until Arizona just runs the table. Are they going to just win nine more in a row? Is that going to be it? Well, they have a chance here. If you get the
Starting point is 00:34:22 one seed. Sure. I mean, at that point you got two home games and you're good to go. The one seed feels so dramatically important with this new 17 week. The one seeds are the only one that don't have to play. It just seems like such a massive advantage, even more than usual. And then they know like they get to play, you know, either somebody in that 4-5 range or if somebody else wins, the lower team, right? And who knows? The way this season goes, anybody can beat anybody.
Starting point is 00:34:53 Well, the one team I don't think it matters for is Tampa Bay. I know nobody wants to go to Lambeau, but if the Cowboys went to Arizona, they'd have a fairly good representative fan-wise. But I did want to say with tampa bay i think this was the week this was the uh remember us asshole week like a bunch of people bunch of teams saying hey remember us asshole starting with alabama who was on the verge of not even making the playoff and now they're favored to win the whole thing at plus 120 on fandle
Starting point is 00:35:23 they did they remember us asshole i think tom brady did the whole thing at plus 120 on Fandle. They remember us asshole. I think Tom Brady did the same thing. I kind of predict. I was like, he's going to go off. He needs one of these games. I know he had a pick six. It was ugly, but four touchdowns, 368 yards. The odds aren't up for MVP.
Starting point is 00:35:36 I think he's got that squared away minus an injury there. And I think you're going to laugh, but I think the Chiefs kind of did the remember us asshole thing too. They have a five game winning streak. Why are they not talked about like the Patriots are? Five game winning streak. I know they had like 266 yards and one today, but Denver was never in that. I don't care. As soon as they show the graphic, like Fangio's one in 18 when losing at half and like Bridgewater was the same. It was like, oh, this game is over. They had an 11 minute drive. They came away with zero. Chiefs are the one you want to avoid in the AFC, I think.
Starting point is 00:36:09 I'm with you, brother. Mike Zimmer had a remember us asshole too today. Remember us asshole. Don't bet us. I forgot about that part. He actually don't remember us. Yeah. Don't ever forget him. Yeah, the Chiefs.
Starting point is 00:36:22 That was my chase bet tonight. Yeah. I did a giant Chiefs-Pats, like finagled the Pats line to four and a half. Or no, I did a tease, actually. I did a seven-point tease with the Chiefs and the Pats. But I'm with you. I think the Chiefs have figured it out. We did a thing on Thursday about how they'd had 22 turnovers
Starting point is 00:36:42 in the first 11 games, just like how rare that is. And it might just have been a small sample size aberration. You know, a lot of those were bounce off the hands. So if they're not turning the ball over, they're fine. I'm not saying Mahomes is trying to throw interceptions and tip passes or anything, but they kind of know when they have to kick it into gear, right? Like, how many times have we seen that? That's why you were all over the Cowboys and like, oh, they suck.
Starting point is 00:37:04 They suck. This is not going to be this team in four weeks. Granted, we still probably have Mike McCarthy, which is not great, but let's see where we are in four weeks. Didn't the Patriots, I mean, we saw the Steelers were 11-1 last year. They peaked too early. Patriots, were they like 10-1 that year that they lost to Tennessee in the playoffs? You don't want to be great now.
Starting point is 00:37:28 You want to be great tomorrow. Well, we had the best defense. Yeah. I think I was watching the pregame show, which I don't usually do. There's like 20 people on it, the NBC show. And they were really trying to make the case for Denver. And it was a lot of Chris Connors. I'll tell you, Al,
Starting point is 00:37:44 this team thinks they can win. You know, a lot of like Chris Consor's, I'll tell you, Al. This team thinks they can win. You know, so like a lot of that stuff and good matchup and they can run the ball. And I'm like, you guys, I'm just watching it going,
Starting point is 00:37:52 you guys are insane. You want to make a case for Denver? Do not show that Vic Fangio 1-18 when trailing at halftime graphic. Because people
Starting point is 00:38:01 immediately going to turn that shit off. Or like KC's beating Denver over and over again for like a decade. Yeah, 11 straight times. Or how about their nine-point favorites for a reason? Or like, you know, now that Clyde Edwards-Hillera is back, they actually seem a little friskier
Starting point is 00:38:16 on offense. They have a little yin-yang with him and Williams. I don't know. They look pretty good. Arrowhead at night. It's a little colder. Andy Reid off a bye. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:38:24 I thought it was weird that they were like trying to tell us how good denver was going to do anyway they didn't do well and uh neither did we today with gamut did you have alabama or georgia in that game of course i had georgia of course i had so what'd you do you did like money line in the underwood money line with everything every little thing i mean it was so much so much better. I looked at the common opponents, and they had beaten their common opponents, four of them, so it's a good sample size, but like 26. And Alabama won by
Starting point is 00:38:51 nine, and I was like, this maybe should be like a 10-point spread. And then right away, we saw, oh yeah, this is I don't know, maybe this is just a way to get two SEC teams in, but we'll see. You'd be proud of me. I watched most of that game. You did.
Starting point is 00:39:08 Alabama just seemed way better. That's my hot take. They did. Their skill guys are ridiculous. Every year, they just have all these guys. And I know nothing. I'm like, oh, that guy looks like a pro. He looks like a pro.
Starting point is 00:39:21 They were not interested in playing defense like they had been. The Georgia quarterback, was that a bad game for him or is that on the bigger stage a little nervous? I think that's the difference in recruiting. They never got the quarterback that they should have. That would have made the difference. That's what Kirby Smart has to do. You know Michigan fans, right? You have a few in your life? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:39:38 They are like, this could take over the nation if Michigan wins. I'm actually nervous for all of us. There's a lot of them out there. There's generations of them. They didn't see this coming. It's feeling a little 0-4 Red Sox-y.
Starting point is 00:39:54 I think it would have been 100 times more likely that Harbaugh was going to get bought out in November or December versus how this has played out, right? Yeah, for sure. With all the buyouts, yeah. It's going to be good. They're pretty good. I've watched a couple of Michigan games. They're definitely good.
Starting point is 00:40:07 I think Michigan-Alabama would be a fun one to watch. I don't think that Michigan would win, but it would be a spectacle. Yeah, either way, that Michigan-Georgia game would be great. I can't believe that line is nine. I would jump on that, for sure. Michigan's got nine points? Yeah, stupid.
Starting point is 00:40:21 All right, we'll do Guess the Lines. Let's take a break. What does possible sound like for your business? It's having the spend to powers your scale with no preset spending limit, more cash on hand to grow your business with up to 55 interest-free days and the ability to reach further with access to over 1400 airport lounges worldwide. Redefine possible with business platinum. That's the powerful backing of American express terms and conditions apply. Visit amex.ca slash business platinum.
Starting point is 00:40:58 All right. Guess the lines. You mentioned it week 14. What's the score? I'm up by one. Yeah. I think you're up six five two or something yep yeah well here's a game that i'm not going to be betting it's minnesota
Starting point is 00:41:11 but now this would be the case for them not to get rid of zimmer because they have a game on thursday right maybe you wait to see what happens this game i've seen enough of zimmer all due respect i never root for somebody to get fired, but man, you can't do... To lose that game, I don't know how you bounce back from that. I definitely know instances
Starting point is 00:41:32 where you've rooted for people to get fired, but we don't have to go into it. You mean Daniel or somebody else? Yeah, Daniel. Yeah, for sure. Sorry, Daniel.
Starting point is 00:41:42 We're just kidding. I have the Vikings favored in this this game but not by a lot i have them favored by one and a half i went big i said four and it's three and a half oh man so i get that one i mean this is exactly where you don't want the minnesota right at home laying points feels like an underdog bet. You know, we hit the underdog parlay again. We've hit four in 13 weeks. And we just missed on three more. But if we just, if all
Starting point is 00:42:12 I did in million-dollar picks was underdog parlay every week and I just made one bet per week, with the odds you hit on those, I'd be way up. I love it and it makes sense and everything says the underdogs, but you're always rooting for a shitty quarterback to throw a touchdown in the fourth quarter. That's the problem, right? Today we had Washington
Starting point is 00:42:28 and we had Seattle. There you go. And then the backup pick was the Steelers, which also would have won. And I had thought about doing the three-way zag to just do a bunch of underdogs together, but I just didn't want to bet on Roethlisberger. The Steelers are amazing because for two and a half hours, you could watch their offense. I'd rather do almost
Starting point is 00:42:44 anything else than watch this offense. And then they really just like, oh my God, Deontay Johnson, one of the miraculous catches here by Chase Claypool. What does Big Ben have it or not? Really like a magic trick being performed in front of you. They lead the league in two things. One is wide open receivers who have to stop and wait for the ball that come to them to ruin their long touchdown.
Starting point is 00:43:06 I think that's happened 20 times. And then I was trying to think of who I feel worse for this year. Who's a skill position guy in a team. And it's, it's Justin Jefferson and Najee Harris in the finals. I think Najee Harris, just all season running against eight men fronts, three guys have to tackle him for him to go down.
Starting point is 00:43:26 Like he really like, I would say he cares as much as anyone we watch. Yeah. This is like two and a half seasons for him. He's like, he's a veteran now. Like when you, when you go to draft them next year in fantasy,
Starting point is 00:43:36 consider that like he's a fourth year player. Right. He's at least like three and a half years in and he just cares so much and he has no blocking ever. And he's like hurtling guys to get extra years in. Yeah. And he just cares so much and he has no blocking ever. And he's like hurtling guys to get extra two yards. So I feel bad for him. And, and then Jefferson,
Starting point is 00:43:51 he, it might, he's, he's this year's candidate for like the, he gets overthrown and he just keeps walking and he just walks out in the tunnel and we just don't see him again. It's like, where'd he go?
Starting point is 00:44:02 He's gone. Do you think he's on a text chain with Stefan Diggs? Oh, no question. Right? Yeah. I would love to know that. He's like, hey man. I know we've never texted, but I just had to ask you that, that, that. I warned you. Capital letters.
Starting point is 00:44:18 What, do you think I'm out of there? Cousins was mad leaving that Lions game. They showed him at the Lions were celebrating. They showed Cousins just like screaming at somebody in the Vikings. You know, here's the thing. He didn't have been. This happens a lot. Like if you look at his ratio for touchdowns, interception didn't get worse today.
Starting point is 00:44:33 It's one of the best in the league. And he had two touchdowns and no picks. And he was sacked three times. And he threw for 340. You want him to make some throws. They just aren't there. But his numbers always seem to stack up. What killed them was they had the first two drives,
Starting point is 00:44:47 field goal, field goal, and they left points on the board each time. Right. And then it was like, oh, it's going to be one of these games. And then of course it was all right.
Starting point is 00:44:54 Sunday's marquee game. What a gauntlet for the bills. I mean, I knew they had this gauntlet, but then when you see it and guess the lines and we know they haven't even played the pats on Monday. And then six days later, they have to go to Tampa and play this Bucs team. That definitely looked like that little attitude today. Bucs-Bills, I have the Bucs favored by three and a half. Yeah, you're going to get it. I said five. Why is this so light? The Bucs are better, and they're home. Why is this? It's three. The answer is only three. I think people are still a little nervous about the Bucs secondary.
Starting point is 00:45:28 That's not 100% healthy yet. They should be nervous about that. But even if the Bills smoke the Pats tomorrow, I would still think the Bucs are in good shape, like even better shape then. I'll say this about the Bills' Pats. The Duggar thing is dangerous for the Pats because he's been one of the best players in the team this year
Starting point is 00:45:51 he's got a COVID thing and it's like we don't know for sure if he's playing or not but that guy he's just been awesome and he's so physical and the other team always knows when he's out there he's all over the place and I think that's a big loss and then the Mac piece of it I'm nervous about it he's a there. He's all over the place. And I think that's a big loss. And then the Mack piece of it, I'm nervous about it.
Starting point is 00:46:08 He's a rookie. It's his 13th start. You know, Monday night, it's going to be cold. You shouldn't be so confident on the text. I'm not confident. I'm confident by the quality of this team. I'm not as confident that they will beat the Bills. But I think it should be a close game. And I think White being out for the Bills is a big deal.
Starting point is 00:46:24 He's our best defensive player. That's true. Losing him on Thanksgiving was rough. You also have another one against them too, so it's not that terrible if you lose. We do, but this is a put yourself on the map. You win this one. You're the number one seed in the AFC. You have a better
Starting point is 00:46:39 conference record than anybody. Even if the Bills beat you in New England, it's still a draw and you have a better conference record than them. Like they're in the freaking driver's seat at this point. By the way, you win this week, then you root for Tom Brady. Right. That's really, I mean, either way, you're going to root for him next week. I have a confession.
Starting point is 00:46:56 I root for Tom Brady a lot. Of course you do. I know. I get it. I love that guy. I've even watched two episodes of Man in the Arena, which I thought was really good. Really?
Starting point is 00:47:04 I really enjoyed it I don't know if it's good because I don't know if it's good because I'm a Pats fan but it's really well done and there's like good lessons in there about work ethic and leadership and being a teammate
Starting point is 00:47:20 I don't know I'm kind of into it I've watched some of it with my son your son's a football player you should watch I know I don't know. I'm kind of into it. I've watched some of it with my son. Your son's a football player. You should watch. I know. I know. I don't respect Patriot fans. They're still in love with Tom Brady. I just can't do it. Not in love.
Starting point is 00:47:36 He's the ex-wife that we're on incredible terms with and we've raised some great kids and we're just trying to wish the best for them. Unlike the mom on Succession tonight. I watched Succession. You watched it? How are you watching this? You're not listening at all then.
Starting point is 00:47:52 I had Chiefs Broncos on the right TV for an hour and I watched Succession. It was the episode of the year. Was it? I'm hearing good things. Yeah, it was good. Anytime it's a big setting with a wedding, thumbs up. The watchables. It was good. Anytime it's a big setting with a wedding, thumbs up. All right.
Starting point is 00:48:06 The watchables. I got three. Ravens Browns. In Cleveland. This happened what? Two weeks ago? It was 16-10 Ravens, right? This was exactly two weeks ago.
Starting point is 00:48:22 I never remember doing it. Well, last week. This is our 15th year of Guess the Lines. I never remember just casually throwing out minus ones when we do Guess the Lines. And two of my next three picks are minus one. I have the Ravens minus one at Cleveland. Son of a bitch.
Starting point is 00:48:36 I said minus two. It is minus one. You get it. Crazy. I never would have guessed that two years ago, three years ago. There were never minus one games. That is such a stay away. That game has like leprosy, COVID night,
Starting point is 00:48:49 every variant of COVID, like just stay far away from it in terms of betting. Are you kidding me? I think Lamar's had one of the weirdest seasons we've seen. Yeah. Where it was like, he got COVID again. It's like, what's going on with this guy? Then all of a sudden it looked like he got COVID again. It's like, what's going on with this guy? Then all of a sudden, it looked like he had his shit together. And then he had this run of fourth quarters and comebacks. And you're going, wow, this guy has really figured it out.
Starting point is 00:49:14 I actually trust this guy. He's got these weapons. And that kind of peaked around midseason. Then that Thursday night game when he sucked and they lost, it flipped. Right. And now I don't know what to think anymore. If you ask me my opinion on Lamar Jackson, what's his ceiling?
Starting point is 00:49:30 Can you win a Super Bowl? I have no idea. If I was on NFL Live or First Take and the segment was Lamar Jackson, they'd be like, all right, we're going to talk about Lamar for 15 minutes. I'd be like, I'm out. I don't have any opinion. I don't know what to say.
Starting point is 00:49:43 I watch football every week. I have no opinion. I'm not in. I'm not out. I'm out. I don't have any opinion. I don't know what to say. I watch football every week. I have no opinion. I'm not in. I'm not out. I'm not sideways. Well, I want to cut him a little bit of slack because his top five running backs have gone out. Yeah. Devonta Freeman is like 14 for 50, averaging like three and a half yards a carry. So he now has to run the ball.
Starting point is 00:50:03 I don't know. Unless Mark Andrews is open, it doesn't seem like anybody else can get separation. But I think that's an interesting question. Like how many quarterbacks you put ahead of them to win a Super Bowl, a Super Bowl, not just this year. I don't think that's a Super Bowl team.
Starting point is 00:50:19 The only thing that was interesting about them was their ability to pull these games out. And then it finally backfired on him today. It's a Tucker thing. Sacked seven times. It looks like he's under siege. It looks like teams have figured out, just don't let him get to the either corner,
Starting point is 00:50:33 right? They always have guys there now. And anytime he tries to turn one corner or the other, there's always somebody there and they're just not afraid of the running game at all. And sometimes like when you're running back suck like this, you can kind of pass the point and no return. I felt like it happened to the 07 Pats
Starting point is 00:50:49 when we lost Sammy Morris down the stretch, even though we were undefeated. But it was like our running backs were terrible. And at some point, teams are like, all right, we're just not afraid of any running back you have. Yeah, I don't remember a long pass from him down the sideline, not middle of the field
Starting point is 00:51:07 to Andrews, like a 45 to Marquise Brown, all these speedsters. I can't remember the last one. Rashad Bateman, did he get thrown out of the game or something or hurt? He had nothing, right, today?
Starting point is 00:51:18 Didn't see his name a lot today. They might have to bring back the old Flacco offense. Just go for PIs like every 10 plays. Yeah. Well, I mean. Did you notice Carr?
Starting point is 00:51:27 Did you see Carr today in the end of that Raiders game? He's the best at it right now. He's like the GOAT. But he didn't get it. He should have gotten it. He should have gotten it. And the next two plays should have been exactly that same play. It's like that's the only chance you have of getting in field goal range.
Starting point is 00:51:40 Why are you throwing an eight yard out right there after that? You got 10 seconds. Do one or two more of those see what happens he's the best in the league at buying enough time to throw a bomb and throwing the bomb and the way he lofts it it always seems to fuck up the d-back yeah and it seems like every time it's a pass interference they call it half the time but that plays unstoppable i trust him you three, I think, more than a lot of these QBs in the league. I do too. I just think they got
Starting point is 00:52:09 their calls on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys and the league said, that's it. No more for the Raiders. Especially when God only knows what happened with this Gruden email thing. Have you been following some of this stuff? There's more? He's still emailing.
Starting point is 00:52:30 What'd he do? Well, Gruden's going to sue everybody on this. And he's basically like, why did only these emails come out? Where are the other ones? Why me? Why was I targeted? Like this, I think could get really ugly. They have to settle with him. This, this would be just atrocious. And it so ironic that he learned from the master, Al Davis, how to sue the league, except it's not going to be on behalf of his team. The story could be really ugly and the good news for the NFL is they have a commissioner who's screwed
Starting point is 00:52:56 up situations like this over and over again for 50 years. You still don't like that guy. I am not a fan. Not a fan at all. Next one. Chiefs home again for the Raiders. Let me see if this moved because I checked it out before the game, but I'm staying with my... I'll just tell you this. If this line is under nine, I'm teasing it
Starting point is 00:53:13 when we finish the pod. Okay. I have the Chiefs by eight. Alright. You are... Where is it? Wait, hold on. What did I miss? You get it also. I had seven and a half. It's eight and is it? Wait, hold on. What did I miss? You get it also. I had seven and a half.
Starting point is 00:53:28 It's eight and a half. So go to it. I'm teasing it. You want to take a break real quick? No. We have time. Don't forget. That's a wrap.
Starting point is 00:53:37 So the Raiders are done. They're six and six. You can see like... I don't think they're done. Like nine and eight is going to be a seven seed in the AFC. See that? I've been saying that for a while. Yeah, you've been saying it. they're done. Nine and eight is going to be a seventh seed in the AFC. See that? I've been saying that for a while. Yeah, you've been saying it.
Starting point is 00:53:47 You're right. It's weird because there's too many teams banging each other out of it here. It's got to be that way. We didn't talk about Chargers since he, but Chargers take a huge lead. Since he comes roaring back because the Chargers are the Chargers.
Starting point is 00:54:01 Burrow gets hurt. So you go from thinking, oh, the Chargers are going to blow this. This is going to be 24-24. They miss an extra point. Burrow hurts his pinky. Now it's like, oh, the Chargers got this. But then the Bengals come roaring back anyway.
Starting point is 00:54:14 And then it seems like the Bengals are going to win, mix and fumbles. All of a sudden, the Chargers are up nine, and you think they're going to win. But I left that game not liking either of those teams. Well, here's what I should have let you know ahead of time. I bet the Chargers, because Fandel and some others have, you could adjust to anything.
Starting point is 00:54:29 So I had the Bengals plus seven and a half. And they were driving to take the, well, first of all, Jamar Chase has a touchdown, right? It was a great, perfectly thrown ball before Burrow got hurt, and he somehow bats it back to the defender as an interception. It was an 80-yard touchdown that he batted up in the air and turned into an interception. It was like a 10-point swing. He also batted up
Starting point is 00:54:52 his Offensive Rookie of the Year hopes, too. He did, because he bobbled another one later. But yeah, he wasn't that great. And then Mixon fumbles. They're driving to take the lead there. And Mixon fumbles and it's run back. Is that a mix six? I guess it's a mix six if he fumbles and it's run bad. Is that a mix six? I guess it's a mix six. If he fumbles and it's run back for a touchdown. Yeah. And then they just,
Starting point is 00:55:09 that was a stupid game. Terrible. But I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. You're right. Like the Bengals look really good. There's seven. I saw there like minus one 70 to make the playoffs. I mean, they could really blow it. They lost to the, they got killed by the Browns. That was a game for 10 minutes. They lost to the Jets. I don't trust any of these teams. Chargers, Cincy, Indy, Pittsburgh, Denver, Cleveland, Vegas, and Miami. All live. I'm telling you. Do the round robin.
Starting point is 00:55:34 Start now. You know, Denver's got the Lions this week, and then Cincy next week. And then they're at Vegas. So they could pull right back into this if they wanted to. The Colts have home New England at Arizona, home Vegas at Jacksonville.
Starting point is 00:55:51 Because your instinct would be like, oh, the Colts, they probably are the best of all those teams. But they might not even get to nine wins. Yeah, they have tough games. And then the dumbass Chargers, they get to play the Giants at home this week. So they could all of a sudden be eight and five. And that might, at that point, all they have to do, they could all of a sudden be eight and five. And that might,
Starting point is 00:56:05 at that point, all they have to do, they have Casey at Houston, Denver at Vegas. I think you win one of those and you're in. Eight and five, you might be one win away. Nine and eight,
Starting point is 00:56:14 I think that's it. If the tiebreakers are right. Now they beat the Steelers. Well, the Steelers, they won't tie with anyway because they have the tie, actual tie to the Steelers. Yeah, they could do it,
Starting point is 00:56:23 the Chargers. Okay. Last watchable. It's your team playing the team that you're secretly scared of. A team that we had seven Ewing 30 scouts watching them in Vegas this week after they lost Chase Young
Starting point is 00:56:38 and somehow got better. The Washington professional football team. The people on Twitter who do the hail thing for them, but it's not their old name anymore. It's like, hail, the Washington professional football team. The people on Twitter who do the Hale thing for them. Yeah. But it's not their old name anymore. It's like, Hale, the Washington professional football team.
Starting point is 00:56:50 You need a new slogan. Give up the Hale. The Hale doesn't work anymore. Sorry, guys. Yeah. Straight to Hale with that. Yeah, I agree. I think your Cowboys are favored.
Starting point is 00:56:59 I think they're favored by one and a half. Oh, wow. No respect. I like it, Simmons. You don't respect them. Cowboys by four and a half. Oh, wow. No respect. I like it, Simmons. You don't respect them. Cowboys by four and a half. I said four.
Starting point is 00:57:08 I definitely don't have respect for the Cowboys. They're better than that. I mean, they may even lose this game, but they're better than the three-point favorite. Are you kidding me? I think you need to make
Starting point is 00:57:18 your announcement for the Extra Points Network. What are you talking about? That when Zeke Elliott gets waived in nine weeks, he's going to be joining you guys to do a fantasy basketball podcast. I'd love to have him. He's injured.
Starting point is 00:57:30 He's playing hurt. Look, in a month, it'll all make sense. What's his next team, you think? April. April range. Who goes for him? Texans? To try to get some Texans? Fox has a fall league or something, right?
Starting point is 00:57:46 Isn't the XFL coming back on the spring leagues? Meanwhile, Pollard, it's like, what the hell does that guy have to do to get the ball? I know, but we're going crazy about that. But like everybody you talk to that knows something says you got to get Zeke in there for blocking purposes. I know you hate it and it doesn't show up in the stats. But if you have Pollard out there, they'll know the Blitz. They'll know they're running or something. Barely Watchables.
Starting point is 00:58:12 Wait, did you do 49ers Bengals? You don't like that one? I have that one in the next category. Oh, you do? All right. I thought it was Watchables. You want to do it now? I'll put it in the watchables. I don't really enjoy watching the 49ers that much.
Starting point is 00:58:28 Without Debo, right? Yeah. Especially today where Jimmy G. Well, Seattle has to get one home win, don't they? I know they had one, but once in every three games, they have to win a home game, don't they? Seattle is dying to give that away too. Sure.
Starting point is 00:58:47 Yeah. Jimmy G just has never been the same since he hurt his knee. Mm-hmm. I don't think. Bengals at home against the 49ers. And I think the Bengals are favored by two and a half. I was way off here. I said four.
Starting point is 00:59:01 It's one and a half. So you get that. Why is that one and a half? They're seven and five. The Niners are six and six. Banged up. Bengals coming off a loss. West coming east. Why is that one and a half? I don't think
Starting point is 00:59:16 we'll have Debo or Warner in that game who are only two of the three best players on the team. That seems relevant. It's a nice spot for the Bengals. I don't know what to make of the pinky finger with Burrow, though. They had that weird play thing in the first half. I was just going to say that. He could have done the Hail Mary, and he just punted on the half.
Starting point is 00:59:32 That was bizarre. No, well, the problem is he hadn't taken a snap under center with that finger. But there was still enough time to spike it from the shotgun, I thought. It was at the line with seven seconds left. Have your running back take the snap. That was weird. Barely watchable as I got one. Panthers, Falcons. I thought like it was, it was at the line with seven seconds. Have your running back. Take the snap. That was weird. Barely watchable as I got one Panthers Falcons Panthers fired their offensive coordinator today,
Starting point is 00:59:50 which is morning. Yeah. Yeah. One of the weirdest kind of timing things. Like why you, you had to buy this week. So you wait seven days and then you fire the offensive coordinator. My guess,
Starting point is 01:00:01 I know nothing. I've checked no Twitter message board, anything, but I wonder if he was talking to teams and they found out. Oh, really? Oh, with all this college stuff. Yeah. Why would you fire him seven days into your bye week?
Starting point is 01:00:13 That doesn't make sense. What would you, you saw all this Lincoln Riley stuff, all the stuff they gave him. They paid for two houses in Norman, Oklahoma. They bought him a $6 million house out here, which is, I think it's one and a half bathrooms or so. I don't know what you get. What would you demand? Where am I moving to?
Starting point is 01:00:34 You're moving here from Norman. Like when you came from Boston, what did you demand? From Kimmel? Well, yeah. But what would you demand if the budget was unlimited? What would you say I have to have? I guess you're a cryo therapist.
Starting point is 01:00:50 Yeah, I'd probably want a cryo chamber. Okay. Let me think. Well, I didn't even own anything in Boston when I left, so that part would have been easy. Right. The part where they have to buy the two houses he lived in in Oklahoma is just bizarre to me.
Starting point is 01:01:05 For $500,000 more than asking on each of them. Yeah, that's weird. Then the person's paying house taxes. We'll think about it. Well, so he's living in USC, right? Mm-hmm. So I think at that point you can live in South Bay. Right?
Starting point is 01:01:22 Yeah. And you could take one time to work every day. So I'd probably ask for the 90210 house in Hermosa Beach. Oh, the actual house. The actual house. Yeah, that $15 million 90210 house. Put a helipad on top, maybe? I'm still disappointed Kimmel never bought that.
Starting point is 01:01:37 That would have been the most exciting real estate moment of the decade. Is it up for sale? When was it up for sale? Yeah, every once in a, it's up for sale. Some magical moments that it has. Yeah. I think he should have asked for some giant Hermosa beach house.
Starting point is 01:01:53 All right. Barely watchable. It's only at one. Panthers, home for the Falcons. I had the Panthers by three. You sure you don't want to say three and a half or two and a half? No. Yeah, I had three. Also, it's three. It's exactly three. You sure you don't want to say three and a half or two and a half? No. All right.
Starting point is 01:02:06 Yeah, I had three. Also, it's three. It's exactly three. Carolina won 19-13. That was only a few weeks ago too, right? I figured out what Matt Ryan is great at. What is it? Getting everybody fired up to hustle to the line
Starting point is 01:02:19 when they're down 13 with 40 seconds left. I don't think anyone's better. Really? Guy never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never anyone's better. Really? Guy never quits. Never quits. Come on, guys. Come on. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. He's got to spike it. He's like, now you mentioned Daniel
Starting point is 01:02:34 before, but Daniel's like that too, like going from party to party. Like, let's go, guys. Let's go. Let's go. Huddle up. Huddle up. You're getting this cab. Okay. Poop fact that Titans home for the Jags. I think after what we saw today from the Jags, I don't see how they're less than 10 points.
Starting point is 01:02:51 And yet I have Titans by nine because I don't know anybody on the scope position side on the Titans who I trust. All right. I squeaked this out. I said 11 and a half. It's 10 and a half. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:03:02 You know you're putting that in some kind of something. Definitely not. 31-19, they beat them first time. Staying away. All right. Saints-Jets, that's in Jersey. Man, there are like six or seven more bad games. And this is the last bye week, right?
Starting point is 01:03:18 Colts-Dolphins-Pats-Eagles are on bye. Both of these are Minshew teams, in my opinion. Saints-Jets? Minshew and the Saints. I think they're like 10-2 right now I have Saints by four over the Jets I said five and a half, it's six It's still the Jets
Starting point is 01:03:36 That's crazy What was it like having your team go against Taysom Hill who can't throw anyway but then he had an injury What do you want me to say? To just know he's going to throw it to you against Taysom Hill who can't throw anyway, but then he had an injury. I mean, that must have been great. To just know he's going to throw it to you every four passes. It was nice that they figured it out.
Starting point is 01:03:50 I don't think Mike McCarthy would have figured it out until the 12th or 13th quarter, and it would have been too late. Like, hey, stack the box against this guy who's got a giant metal rocket on his middle finger. Seahawks-Texans, another terrible game. That is in Houston. Tyrod Taylor lost his starting job at halftime today to Davis Mills,
Starting point is 01:04:12 who's really not much better. And amazingly, the Seahawks, who were almost dead, who are now 4-8, who are somehow not out of the playoff picture. Oh, my God. And I think they're favored by more than a touchdown. I think I have them at 7.5 over the Texans. We split it. I said 6.5. It's 7. Is our Lions to have the worst
Starting point is 01:04:30 record bet in jeopardy here? I don't think so. Really? Yeah, I think we're alright. They're going to lose this week. That's our next one. Broncos home for the Lions. I think this is an even seven. Broncos by seven over Detroit,
Starting point is 01:04:49 who's been kind of hanging with teams, even though they're not confident. I'm going to get this. I said seven and a half. It's eight and a half. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. That's too high. I've taken the lead here, Simmons.
Starting point is 01:05:00 Seven to six with three games left. I'm going to go back to it. This is a bad batch of teams to be off. Colts 7-6, Dolphins 6-7, Pats 8-4, Eagles 6-7. That means we're going to have extra bad games. Yeah. Those are decent teams. You picked 8.5.
Starting point is 01:05:18 I have 8.5 for my next one. It's the Chargers at home against the Giants. Now, normally you would say, oh my God, so many fans from the New York team. But if you're a Giants fan, do you go to this game? Do you want to be around the other Giants fans? Is it like going
Starting point is 01:05:35 to a funeral? I don't know if I'd leave the house for this one. There's obviously enough transplants here to fill that stadium for sure. I wonder how many made this. But for what purpose? To chant fire the coach? Fire Glennon?
Starting point is 01:05:52 Get rid of Danny Dimes? What chants are you doing? I don't know. Maybe people made this their trip, their December trip before Christmas. What a sad trip. I had eight and a half also. It's ten. But it's the Chargers for God's sake. You know this is going to be a close game. I had eight and a half also. It's 10. But it's the Chargers, for God's sake. You know this is going to be a close game.
Starting point is 01:06:08 This sounds like a bit for you where you go dressed like Tyree with the football stuck to the top of your head and you just walk around. Try to put a smile on people's face. Sunday night, Packers-Bears. These games are terrible, Sal. We really have a couple good ones.
Starting point is 01:06:23 Was this flexed in? No. This was always a game, right? Yeah, this one stinks. The Bears looked shot. Talk about a bottom five team. Wait a minute. What the hell happened to Nagy being fired and then they said it and he's going to, all right, after Thanksgiving, but then he won Thanksgiving and
Starting point is 01:06:39 it was awful again today. I mean, well, I think they're really banged up, but now you're hoping you have one of the worst records, right? It's going to be 4-9 after this game. They stink. I had the Packers by 12.5. Wow, you nailed it exactly. I said 10.5.
Starting point is 01:06:55 Now, wait a minute. Let me add these up. 4-5, 6-7, 8. 1-2-3, 4-5. I think it's 8-8. All right. One game left. It's Monday night. It's in Arizona. Cards, Rams. I do not believe this Rams team.
Starting point is 01:07:10 I have the cards favored by three. I said four. It's three. You get it. Congratulations. I love the cards in that game. Well, they crushed them at SoFi, right? 37-20. They're calling this the Schrager Bowl. He, they crushed him at SoFi, right? 37-20?
Starting point is 01:07:26 They're calling this the Schrager Bowl. He's good friends with both of these coaches. Oh, right. That's right. He should just sit at midfield with one of those jerseys where he's got half Rams, half Cardinals. I don't like what I've seen from the Rams. I'm not a believer. I'm not either.
Starting point is 01:07:43 And I was like, what has to motivate Stafford after seeing Jared Goff win a game? And it didn't happen. Although I think he was like 20 for 22 from the second quarter on. Jacksonville looked like they had spent a fun weekend
Starting point is 01:08:00 in LA and they wanted to get out. Yeah, they're bad news. Who knows what Urban was up to there. All right, let's do Parent Corner. Today's Parent Corner is brought to you by CarMax. The CarMax love your car guarantee lets you test drive a car for 24 hours so you can see how it really feels when you use it for a full day
Starting point is 01:08:19 from running errands to how it fits in your garage. Make your test drive count. Learn more at CarMax.com. CarMax. Car buying reimagined. All right, Sal, you're up. Oh, so your kids are too old for this, but mine playing, is it Roadblocks?
Starting point is 01:08:36 Roadblocks? Yeah, Roadblocks. Roadblocks, yeah. My son's on, my seven-year-old, Harris, is on I don't know, 13, 14 hours a day. Oh, yeah. And because he's got it, and he plays with friends, and he's screaming at his friends.
Starting point is 01:08:50 Oh, and one of his friends has a baby sister and plays in the room with the baby sister, and the girl's crying the whole time. It's terrible. It's really bad. And we hear it. I'm like, please, just move to another room or something. Or Harrison, you move to another room.
Starting point is 01:09:05 But anyway, so he plays Roblox and occasionally he'll ask for $10 gift card. Like it'll pop up. Harrison has requested $9.99 for this and you can buy shit and characters and stuff. And I'm like, I don't want to do this, but let's see, like it'll buy me an hour, $10 for a babysitter for an hour. Like that's a great deal. Right. So, all right. So once in a while I'll give in $10. So I happen to be looking over his shoulder the other day and he's writing, cause you can message in there. He's writing scam, scam, scam. I said, Hey buddy, what is this? He's like, no, I don't want to, I don't want to say
Starting point is 01:09:43 anything. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, you're going to get mad. So you better just tell me what is happening here. He's like, well, I gave up my golden dragon and I traded it because someone said they were going to give me a polar bear and they got my golden dragon and they left the room. And I was like, well, how much did you spend on this golden dragon? He gives me some, I don't know, some Bitcoin thing. I don't even know. I was like, well, how much did you spend on this golden dragon? He gives me some, I don't know, some Bitcoin thing. I don't even know. I was like, what is that in dollars? Like what real dollars?
Starting point is 01:10:09 And I think we spent like six bucks on this golden dragon that he just gave up and he lost. And I said, what is this girl's name? He's like, Ellen 03917. So I'm telling you right now, Ellen 03917. And I know you're listening to this. I'm going to come get you. And we're going to get that polar bear from you and we're going to make reparations because you don't steal I don't know if this is a 75 year old woman
Starting point is 01:10:33 maybe it's a man I don't even know what LNO3917 but you can't steal from a 7 year old and it is a scam scam scam how dare you what a tough lesson to learn for a kid who should just be at recess swinging from a jungle gym yeah no kid said he's getting scammed by ellen
Starting point is 01:10:52 779 lno yeah i don't want to lno yeah sorry i don't want to lno you should be a shander anybody yeah terrible job roblox people are saying that's what the future is going to look like these alternate universes that we live in. It's just like, my current life's not working out. I'm just going to go into this different universe. Yeah, you'll never have to visit Rome or anything. You'll live it off the Roblox.
Starting point is 01:11:16 I'm concerned. I saw Licorice Pizza this weekend. What? It's Paul Thomas Anderson's movie. It's great. It's movie. Yeah, right. It's great. And it just goes back to this simple time in the 70s when we didn't have any of this stuff.
Starting point is 01:11:31 And it's just, I don't know. Something to be said for it. Nice. Didn't know smoking was bad for you. My parent corner. So we have some thieves in my house. There's a lot. My daughter is a clothes thief, which I think I've
Starting point is 01:11:46 talked about before, but you know, she can wear a lot of my wife's clothes now and it's just stealing stuff left and right. And it's become like a real issue and it's the maddest my wife gets. And then my daughter's claiming she didn't steal the stuff and it's just in a different drawer. But we feel like sometimes after she stole the stuff, she sneaks back in, maybe puts it back or whatever. Like she's, and my wife now wants to put a camera in the closet to try to catch her. This is what my life is like right now. Don't you have a ring camera? Don't you see them coming and going anyway?
Starting point is 01:12:19 Not in the closet though, to like really, really get it down. I know, you see what they're wearing. People always say like when the daughter turns like 14 the mom and the daughter turn on each other and it gets ugly and i was like nah it'll be fine in my house and now we've reached a point where my daughter my wife wants to put a camera in the closet to catch my daughter so that's been great um and then my son who as you know is, is a liar, I have to now hide my wallet because we had to take, he had emergency Apple Pay on his phone that, of course, he abused. That was a mistake.
Starting point is 01:12:54 Note to self, don't put Apple Pay. It's like, oh, it might be an emergency. He might need it. Nope. Nope. That was bad. He spent $65 at Gelson's with him and his loser friends. Ben, did you take my cryo gift card?
Starting point is 01:13:07 I need that back. Ben, where's my cryo coupon? So now I was noticing my wallet. So then I started counting in my wallet and I thought it was him and it turns out it was actually my wife was stealing the money. Oh, perfect.
Starting point is 01:13:23 But I think he might have been too, but there's just, it's a house of lies right now, Sal. Right. That's all I can tell you. Did you accuse him? Did you accuse him of it? Oh. And then he got super mad. Well, now he's got a free one. He's got a free swipe now. Right. Because if you accused him and it's your wife that did
Starting point is 01:13:39 it, now he's like, all right, I got a free one coming to me for sure. Well, he gave me this one, which I got to say hurt my feelings. What do you care? It's going to be all mine anyway. What do you say to that? It's unanswerable. No, you're wrong.
Starting point is 01:13:56 Yeah, I'll probably be right at some point. I will decide when it's yours. You don't want to say. I will decide when I die. Yeah, because then I'll kill you. So you don't want to say that either. Yeah, you don't want to spell it out for him. Oh, that's a running joke.
Starting point is 01:14:07 He's the Menendez brothers. He calls himself Benendez. Really? He's like, yeah, Benendez. Not that funny. Well, maybe he'll start dating LNO3917. You can see it all coming together.
Starting point is 01:14:21 It's going to be all mine someday anyway. It's like the all-time Trump card insult. Oh, that is succession. Because they're not wrong. At some point, you and I are dying. Yeah, yeah. At some point.
Starting point is 01:14:32 Our kids are going to outlive us, so he's not technically wrong. You have the best succession episode just playing out in your house right now. It's all going to be mine. Definitely a lot of stealing. Yeah, I love it. That's it for Parent Corner.
Starting point is 01:14:44 Today's Parent Corner is brought to you by CarMax. Get a 30-day money-back guarantee with CarMax. Now you have a full month to decide if a car is the right fit. And you can return the car for any reason for a full refund up to 1,500 miles. Take the time to see how it really feels when you drive. All the controls, the cup holders, everything. Learn more at CarMax.com. CarMax.
Starting point is 01:15:04 Car buying. Reimagined. Alright, what do you got to plug, Seth? Fox Bet Live, Monday, Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern this week. I'll have my Thursday night football pick. I'm off the Schneider. I had the Cowboys. They won. Easy, easy victory over the Saints. I'll come back for two
Starting point is 01:15:20 in a row. And ExtraPoints.com. All your sports gambling needs are there. Our first touchdown picks on Against the Lods plus 73 units. So listen for that tomorrow. How's Harry doing? Is he up or down lately? He's up, but he's in Hawaii too. Like he's, he's crazy.
Starting point is 01:15:35 He's, he's going on all these. He's in Hawaii. It like snowed there. You know how it is with him. And did you know that it snowed there though? Yeah, I know. I was, I was rooting for a monsoon. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:15:44 He brings the snow. Harry gets stuck there. All right, Seth. Good job by you. Good job by you, buddy. All right. Kevin O'Connor is here. NBA Trades After Dark.
Starting point is 01:15:56 That's the working title of this segment where we just talk trades. I guess the team du jour for the trade machine and just in general is Portland. Portland finally fires Neil O'Shea the other day, uh, rumored to be coming for weeks, gave away a couple number one picks for Covington and Nance thinking that it would improve their defense. It is not. Dame has not looked healthy for six months. He's out of the lineup right now. It looks like they missed their window to make a move with these two guys, which you did a whole thing in the ringer about a couple
Starting point is 01:16:27 days ago. Sometimes you can miss your window with this stuff. Philly, I don't feel that way. I think the Simmons thing was hard to predict. I think the Portland thing, there were real cases for and against that this team's had a lot of success. You don't break that up. Or this team had a lot of success because of some
Starting point is 01:16:43 stuff that happened in the West that moved in their favor. And now the top West teams are too strong. And now it's time to make a move. So do you think they took too long here? I mean, no, I don't think they took too long to make a big move. There could still be something out there with CJ McCollum.
Starting point is 01:17:00 But I mean, the way I've been thinking about this team the past week or so, Bill, is they're in a position right now where there's two paths you can go. I still think you can say to yourself, Portland's the next Phoenix. They're just one or two moves away from the finals. The sun's got Chris Paul and Jay Crowder. Who are those guys for the Blazers?
Starting point is 01:17:16 Is it like CJ McCollum and, you know, Yusuf Nurkic for plus picks for Ben Simmons and Christian wood. Is it something like that? Whatever the deal is for the Blazers to get better, it could be that. Going forward, all is totally fair for this team, too. Because think about the Raptors. You stay in it with Lowry and DeRozan, then you flip DeRozan for Kawhi.
Starting point is 01:17:35 So it's a good path to go that way. But, I mean, you watched the game on Saturday night. I did. Getting a 145 to the Celtics, right? And Lillard's 31. He's out with that abdomen injury you mentioned, which has been an issue
Starting point is 01:17:48 since at least August. And just the way they lost that game, it was a reminder again of this team isn't just one or two moves away. They're not in the suns. They're not in a position
Starting point is 01:18:00 like that, so they don't have the depth of the top teams. Plus, Dame's been hurt. And I couldn't help but think to myself watching that night, this is a team that really needs to also consider saying, hey, you know what? It's time to blow it up.
Starting point is 01:18:12 They could go that way too, Bill. Well, it's funny. Billups really went after him after the game, which was unusual for a new coach, and he was saying, he was killing the starters. He was like, we gotta get out of the habit of our bench being the part of the team that cares
Starting point is 01:18:28 and the bench constantly having to save the starters. It just, it had the vibe of a team that it looks like something's wrong. And they've looked that way all year, but the Boston game was the worst version of that where it just, it looks like one of those teams where they don't really like playing with each other and they don't really know what their identity is,
Starting point is 01:18:44 which is a problem. They have all the symptoms of it. I mean, even before the game, it was reported Cronin, their new general manager, sitting courtside with Burt Cole and Jody Allen. Whole new power regime. That's all changed. Billups replacing Stotts. The coach has changed.
Starting point is 01:19:00 The only core that hasn't changed is the roster, the team. That's it everything else in the everything else in the organization is different now except for the roster and so i mean which path do they go here i think that's what makes them i mean obviously so fascinating because they could go down the path of you know what we're going to stay in it we're going to try to make it work with dame but the other path isn't so bad if you want to bottom out for two years and go for some Northwest guys like Paulo Bancaro in the draft, Chet Holmgren from Gonzaga.
Starting point is 01:19:31 I mean, it's an easy sell for Portland if you want to go to the blow it up route and tank this thing out when the 2022 draft is very strong up top. The 2023 draft is going to be headlined by Victor Wemba Nyama, the seven foot two French prospect who we've talked about before.
Starting point is 01:19:46 Dominance. So There's a path. We're going that route. Makes some sense for Portland. They have some picks that they're committed on, right? They don't have all their picks. No, that's what I'm saying. I guess this year
Starting point is 01:20:01 it's top 14 protected. They would keep it if they bottomed out, if they tried to tank. Yep. But down the road, I think they're missing at least one of their first. Maybe they're not.
Starting point is 01:20:14 Maybe I'm, I guess they, maybe they got rid of those Covington ones. So yeah. So this one, if they bottom out, then they'll keep their pick. So I guess they could do that.
Starting point is 01:20:22 Yeah. This is the last one. And this one is protected, I think through 2028. So it's a long do that. Yeah, this is the last one. And this one is protected, I think, through 2028. So it's a long time that they are locked up with it. I'm torn on this one because, as you know, I hate trading a guy who's a potential, or not potential, is a top 10 guy in the league,
Starting point is 01:20:38 which I think Dame was until this season. Agreed. I just, the history of that stuff, unless you're getting somebody else awesome back, doesn't work. On the flip side He's 31 He's had the Abdominal thing
Starting point is 01:20:50 The abdominal thing This year I don't love the history Of little guards As they get older And you saw it with Kemba Now Kemba had some Knee injuries and stuff
Starting point is 01:20:59 But when you're little And you lose like that One third of a step Or a half step Your game can completely change Or Isaiah Thomas Isaiah Thomas is another one Yeah and you lose like that one third of a step or a half step, your game can completely change. Or Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Thomas is another one.
Starting point is 01:21:08 Yeah. Now he's a better shooter than either of those guys where I get it. And he's a better player too. At the same time, like I don't feel like this team is remotely close. I don't like the players that they have together. Nurkic is on his last year. Covington's on his last year. I don't like the players that they have together. Nurkic is on his last year. Covington's on his last year.
Starting point is 01:21:30 I think it would be hard to even get real assets back from them. You might have to look at taking a longer contract back for one of those guys to even get rid of them for any sort of value. And I just don't really know what the moves are. I think it's a weird team where you have Nurkic coming to Nance and then you have the two small guards and then Powell's in there and then you have this slew of guys off the bench that you never know what you're getting.
Starting point is 01:21:54 I just don't know what the identity of that team is. It makes no sense to me. Whereas you watch the Bulls, I didn't love the DeRozan contract. I thought it was too much money. You watch the Bulls and they just make sense. They like playing with each other. So you go from that Bulls game the other night
Starting point is 01:22:10 where they lay it to the Nets and DeRozan was unbelievable. And then you watch Portland and they're like beyond a funk and the Celtics are doing whatever they want and they look like they're getting 150 points. That seemed like a cry for help kind of lost to me. So I think they're in blow it up mode.
Starting point is 01:22:28 The question is, is it McCollum or is it Dame? I think McCollum isn't the blow it up route. That's the we're going for it all route. Because with McCollum, if you, if let's think about like what Sean Shawani reported in early October, Philadelphia offered Portland, Ben Simmons for CJ McCollum and three first and three first round pick swaps, which is an unreasonable amount to ask for, which is why Portland said no. But the conversations at least indicate that Philly has some interest in their part in
Starting point is 01:23:00 absorbing McCollum as a veteran in a deal. There's a lot of room for negotiation there and if you're Portland to me Ben Simmons makes logical sense as everybody's been talking about as one of the two moves just because of what he could bring to the table with their defense and with Damian Lowe and the half court so but it's what's the other moves to me that I think about around that idea for the Blazers, if they go that route. But ultimately, though, Bill, as you're saying, blow it up, as we're both saying here,
Starting point is 01:23:29 blow it up as a very fair route for them, especially considering how strong those upcoming draft classes are. And these moves might not be enough anyway. The McCollum thing's tough, because he was a lot more palatable before he was making $33 million a year. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:23:44 Makes him harder to trade. You got to get a big salary back. And, you know, I, I went to, I thought there were more CJ McCollum trades out there that I'd be excited about than there was because somebody has got to have the big,
Starting point is 01:23:57 like, for instance, if you're Toronto and Portland's like, Hey, fuck it. McCollum for Siakam. What do you think? And Siakam is somebody who I think
Starting point is 01:24:06 we both know is available. I don't know if I'd do that if I'm Toronto. Where does that get me? Now I have Van Vliet and McCollum. I think McCollum's a hard guy to fit with who you have if you have another small guard. Now you're in the same situation Portland's in. So it's almost like
Starting point is 01:24:21 it's got to be their team. I think the Knicks would actually weirdly make sense for him because he could be somebody who could create crunch time. That's a team that their point guard situation isn't like incredible. RJ Barrett could go back,
Starting point is 01:24:34 but that's, the Knicks can't really do anything until mid-December. To me, like, I think if you're going to do Dame, this is the time to kick the tires on it and see if you can get
Starting point is 01:24:44 the Simmons and Maxey and some picks from Philly if Philly's feeling a little panicky that they have this Simmons asset that they're not going to get anything from. And I guess the question is, how many picks is that and is that enough? Should more teams be involved? I was trying to figure out a
Starting point is 01:24:59 four-teamer. This is the fake trade I'm going to throw at you for NBA Trades After Dark. Where the Knicks get De'Aaron Fox. Sacramento gets Ben Simmons and Al Burks. Philly gets Damian Lillard. Portland
Starting point is 01:25:15 gets Maxie, RJ Barrett, Bagley, Knox, and a slew of picks. Hmm. Something like that. Who does Portland get again give me those names for Portland so Portland would get Maxie RJ Barrett who's young
Starting point is 01:25:32 Bagley expiring and Knox expiring and they're giving up Dame and that's really it and they'd get to keep CJ and decide whether they want to do and they'd get a bunch of picks okay a bunch of picks too. That's important.
Starting point is 01:25:47 So if you just cut that down one at a time, right? The Knicks would be giving up RJ Barrett and Knox and Burks for De'Aaron Fox. I feel like they have to throw in at least one of the picks they have for this year if they're going to do that.
Starting point is 01:26:04 Right? Are you sure you do that if you're the Knicks i feel like i feel like a lot of knicks fans right now are like hell no i'm just i'm just i'm just thinking about that because with rj he's so young the offensive flashes he showed last year's a six seven score very good defensively i don't know i mean i'm not saying I wouldn't consider doing that, but I really like RJ. No, the funniest thing about this trade is I'm not sure any of the teams do this except for Philly because you and I are both suspicious of Fox. At the same time, I love trading for any asset from Sacramento because I think that's a top three effed up situation. And you bring them into the Kentucky cocoon in New York. You bring them to the city with like,
Starting point is 01:26:46 it's a point guard city and change of scenery. And Fox is pretty young. I think he gives a shit. I just think he's had a bunch of coaches and he's been on a bunch of weird teams. And if he was in the right environment, I think that's a pretty good bet. RJ has gone backwards this year,
Starting point is 01:27:01 in my opinion, from what I've seen. Offensively. He has. Yeah. Yes, definitely. I mean, no question. He's gone back. So it in my opinion, from what I've seen. Offensively, he has. Yeah. Yes, definitely. I mean, no question he's gone backwards. Could be an early season slump.
Starting point is 01:27:09 We'll see how that works out. But it definitely looks more like his rookie year version than the guy we saw last season. That's for sure. So then separately, if you're Sacramento and you could get Simmons and one more player for Fox and dump the Bagley contract. I think you'd have to think about it
Starting point is 01:27:28 because from what we've seen from Mitchell, and I think Halliburton needs to play point guard. So you're gaining the asset in Halliburton having the ball more because I think he's really struggled not having the ball. I think he's another one who's taking a step back this year.
Starting point is 01:27:42 And that's a good roll of the dice for them because Simmons was the top 20 guy last year. Fox has never been a top 20 guy. So anyway, that was just a thought. That trade, don't aggregate that. I'm just thinking out loud. But I was trying to think of the most fun four-teamer. I still think
Starting point is 01:27:58 the easiest trade that makes the most sense is Maxie, Simmons, Dame, and then figure out how many picks need to be in there. And that's a trade that I think makes sense for both sides, especially from what we've seen from Maxie. You had that one on Twitter, right? Yeah, I had that one on Twitter. And it was funny
Starting point is 01:28:13 because I looked at some of the replies. Half the people are mad from Philly, half the people are mad from Portland. Interesting. Oh, that's a good trade. If both sides are mad, then we're probably stumbling into something here. That always is a good indicator with those. All right. What do you have for your trade?
Starting point is 01:28:27 So, I mean, I had a similar thought as you regarding CJ deals. How many teams did you find in all your Dame research that made sense for Dame? Because there's really not many, right? Knicks, Sixers, as you mentioned. Who else? Pelicans, maybe? To pair with Zion? Mavs?
Starting point is 01:28:44 Well, he makes 39 million. So just starting there, the salary gets really hard. And then I think a lot of teams like their point guard situation. You go through the league, you just cross half the teams off right away because
Starting point is 01:28:59 they're like, we're good. Detroit's like, no, we don't want Dame lowered. We're good. We're rebuilding. We have Cade and we'll see how this goes the next few years. But you go through all the teams. I guess like Washington, if you get to talk them into upgrading from Dinwiddie for Dame and throwing a bunch of stuff like that, I'm sure you'd get their attention.
Starting point is 01:29:18 Same thing for Indiana. But you would also have to think like, Dame has to be happy with the trade. You don't want to acquire somebody who's fucking miserable. So that limits it to like LA teams and Philly and kind of big markets. And it's unclear if he wants to even get traded anyway. You know? Yeah.
Starting point is 01:29:37 So anyway, what do you have for McCollum? No, for sure. I mean, I was thinking about, well, actually for Dame. This is a Dame thing. Oh, Dame. Okay. Let's say New orleans wants to really try to accelerate things around zion to me i mean they have all the picks they have
Starting point is 01:29:51 multiple different salary combinations you could do something around ingram if you wanted to you could do something with a lot of picks around satiransky heart davante graham there's different combos that they could put together and they have so many picks from the deals they've made, including for Drew Holiday and Anthony Davis, Bill. New Orleans Pelicans, they're like whatever combo you want to put together, lean towards keeping Ingram. So Sadoransky, Hart, Graham,
Starting point is 01:30:16 and a whole bunch of draft picks, they could beat anything else that's out there for Damian Millen and pair him with Zion. Question is, what am I getting from Zion? So I'm mortgaging my future to try to leverage my Zion situation and I have no idea if Zion could stay in the court.
Starting point is 01:30:34 That would be my favorite. I would look at trading Ingram if I was them. I'm just not convinced he's a winning player. Do you think he's a winning player? Sometimes. And I say that in all due respect. I just try to think of him in round two, round three
Starting point is 01:30:47 of the playoffs. Where is he? Could he be Chris Middleton on a playoff team? Or could he be the scoring small forward who has some size on defense? I believe in him in that sense, Bill. I think with Ingram, he's shown enough over the years as a scorer. His development is for real. The three-point shot's for real.
Starting point is 01:31:04 The defensive aspect is where sometimes I'm like, damn, why isn't he the same guy I saw that last year with the Lakers, where playing with LeBron, I thought he was fantastic on defense. And not every night, he was inconsistent, but he really brought it for them. And that hasn't happened the same way with the New Orleans Pelicans. So if he can tap into that, maybe it only happens in a situation where winning is the expectation. And if it is that, then I believe in Ingram because he could just be one of those types of guys who turns it on when he wants to,
Starting point is 01:31:34 turns it on in a playoff situation. So I believe in him in that sense, and I wouldn't want to move him. But if the right deal is out there, he's not untouchable. But I'm not looking to move Ingram, no. Too good, too young. I was trying to figure out a McCollum
Starting point is 01:31:47 trade. And I was trying to figure out a way to get him to Dallas. McCollum's with Luka. I like that combo. Yeah, like kind of a high-tech version of what Seth was doing. It's exactly what Dallas needs, offensively anyway. And they just have
Starting point is 01:32:03 no assets. They don't have a centerpiece. You would say, I guess Porzingis from a contract wise, but that guy I don't think has really any trade value at this point for any sort of significant as the centerpiece of a deal where you're getting a really good guy back. So I was just going through the teams and I think it's really hard to find a McCollum trade too. You end up taking on somebody else. I, I swear, I thought about this for a split second
Starting point is 01:32:31 on Saturday night and then I was like, no, no, no, they'll never do that. But I did think about Westbrook and McCollum and sort of deal for a second. And if you're playing 2k, you would have so much fun playing 2k. No, no no i thought of it more from like watching portland just lifeless and dead and i was like this would actually be a good westbrook team he would come in he'd try to get triple double every night he would really give a shit and then la could get mccallum but there's just no way i don't think i don't think westbrook's tradable it's a fun it's a fun alternate universe to think about like i said you should play 2k franchise mode bill you should do like a I said you should play 2k franchise mode
Starting point is 01:33:05 Bill you should do like a write a column about 2k franchise you act like my son doesn't do that the other one I was thinking was um is there something with the Warriors potentially with Wiggins and one of their guys hmm involving
Starting point is 01:33:21 McCollum McCollum I don't know not Wiggins Wiggins is important Wiggins and Moody for McCollum. McCollum. I don't know. Not Wiggins. Wiggins is important. Wiggins and Moody for McCollum? Something like that? Do you need another guard? For which team?
Starting point is 01:33:32 The Warriors or the Blazers? Yeah, for the Warriors. Wiggins is an important piece. I mean, McCollum maybe in a vacuum is a better player, but Wiggins is their stopper against
Starting point is 01:33:42 opposing stars at the wing position. It's hard. I really think it's hard to opposing stars at the wing position. It's hard. I really think it's hard to find him a column trade. It's much harder than I expected. Then you could go to the Utah side with some picks and Clarkson, stuff like that, but I don't know what that does for Portland.
Starting point is 01:33:58 I had a lot of trouble figuring it out. So we have, from a panic standpoint, I would say Portland and Sacramento are probably one, two on like, it's clear that they have to do something. Right? Who would you say is third? Indiana? I mean, Indiana, with the way Rick Carlisle is using Sabonis, I have something in my Monday article about that.
Starting point is 01:34:23 But it's like, Sabonis' touches on post touches and Monday article about that, but it's like Sabonis' touches on post touches and elbow touches have been cut in half pretty much. And that's what he's done best on offense. And with Carlisle, he did the same thing with Chris Stapp's poor Zingas. Hopefully so, but with KP, he was like a horrible post scorer
Starting point is 01:34:39 and a pretty good three-point shooter. Sabonis is a pretty good post player and a poor three-point shooter. So he's doing more of what he's worse at. And you think about that situation and where are they? They're smack in the middle of the league. They're not good.
Starting point is 01:34:56 They're boring. Wait, they're lower than the middle. They're 9-16. Oh, yeah. They're the third worst team in the East and seventh worst team overall. So I think their desperation is set in. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:35:07 And this is a team where, what are they? They don't have much of an identity either. And it seems like Rick Carlisle, their coach, also has a different philosophy than what the players are on the team. So for this team, I think trading some bonuses should be high on their list of things to explore, especially this year's deadline bill. This is a dry trade market. We can't even find
Starting point is 01:35:25 good deals for McCollum or good deals for Lillard. There's just not a lot of people selling and not a lot of great fits for the guys that could be available. So Sabonis could become one of the best players on the market. It's a pretty good big. And I have no idea what his actual trade value is because
Starting point is 01:35:41 don't think I'm not thinking about him on the Celts. Seeing the way Horford's playing? Well, I'm saying could you have, could there be a trade with Williams and some stuff if they wanted to do like a
Starting point is 01:35:57 3-4-1, get some picks, whatever. But I would assume they would want a chess piece back for Sabonis. But on the other hand, the way they're using him this year, they're actually hurting his value. I'm a huge fan of his. I would be trying to get him.
Starting point is 01:36:15 I think he'd be an interesting Sacramento guy too. But I don't know what the right fit is. So you would keep Turner and trade Sabonis or vice versa? Yeah, that's the way I'd go. Based off of having an aligned organization. Carlisle, Sabonis, the way he uses Sabonis or vice versa? Yeah, that's the way I'd go. Based off of having an aligned organization. Carlisle, Sabonis, the way he uses Sabonis just isn't going to work. Right. But Turner is more in his wheelhouse.
Starting point is 01:36:33 Bingo. So I mean, for Indiana, I think it seems like we're pointing in that direction. Is Sabonis the most Spurs-y kind of big man that's out there? I mean, I could totally see him going there and immediately lighten it up. I would love to see a Sabonis-Purtle frontcourt. Those two guys whipping the ball around the court to interior bigs. It'd be like something out of the
Starting point is 01:36:55 2000s with the Spurs. It'd be fun to watch that. What do you tell, before we go, what do you tell a Denver Nuggets fan right now? I mean, just enjoy yokich seriously just enjoy yokich this this is a guy who just won an mvp and he came back a better player he he's like an all defensive candidate so far this season bill he's been extraordinary on defense and this is a guy just a couple years ago people were saying was a liability because he was yeah he got good and now he's great on defense this is is an MVP who just keeps getting better.
Starting point is 01:37:26 So enjoy that. Him, Giannis, KD, and Curry is about as good of a final top four as we've had. Like for just people playing in a lot of ways the best versions of themselves and their career all at the same time. It's funny though.
Starting point is 01:37:42 I think if you did the all-NBA, I mean it's freaking ridiculous to even bring it up, but if you did the all-NBA, I mean, it's freaking ridiculous to even bring it up, but if you did the All-NBA right now, I think DeRozan would be the first team guard for me. Yeah. I think I would give him the look because Luka is kind of like,
Starting point is 01:37:55 that's his spot. But I'm not voting Luka first team All-NBA this year from what we've seen in the first 20 games. So it would be DeRozan or Booker. And I actually think DeRozan would have the edge.
Starting point is 01:38:05 But the stuff he's doing, he's definitely gone up a level. And the Toronto fans are like, no, no, he did this in 2017. He averaged 27 a game. But I just feel like from a decision-making standpoint, he's on another plane IQ-wise. That's what he did to Brooklyn.
Starting point is 01:38:22 I was so impressed. He went toe-to-toe with Harden and Durant and did whatever he wanted in did to Brooklyn. I was so impressed. He went toe to toe with Harden and Durant and did whatever he wanted in the fourth quarter. It was great. Bill, he became such a better player in San Antonio. It's wild. His last year in Toronto, to Raptors fans point, that's the year he started to figure it out as a playmaker. But then over three years running the point for San Antonio, he really mastered the mid-range and that's made him a better shooter because he's getting more open opportunities for mid-range. He's not taking and forcing as many shots
Starting point is 01:38:49 because he's making smart passes. It's crazy how he gets traded for Kawhi Leonard and Toronto wins the championship. But then, meanwhile, DeRozan gets better and now he's on a team that actually has another chance right here to win a championship in the Bulls because they do have a shot. Do you agree there, Bill?
Starting point is 01:39:05 The Bulls are in this, in that group of teams that can win it all. I 100,000% agree that they have a shot. I think they need some depth somewhere, which I'm sure they'll get. There might be a buyout guy for them too. The shocker for me is Donovan. I was actually arguing with somebody about this this weekend. I think Donovan's been the best coach in the league this year. And you think about, he goes to OKC
Starting point is 01:39:28 and he's basically stuck with Westbrook all those years. The hardest guy to coach of the last decade, basically. And then inherits that Chicago team last year that was a mess. They're just locked in. Especially in close games. I love all the decisions they make. They always have the right guys in the right spots.
Starting point is 01:39:46 The right guys are playing. And he seems to me like the... I think he's the best coach that I've seen in the first 20 games. Billy Donovan finally has pieces that could work with him. You know, with Donovan, when he was at Florida,
Starting point is 01:40:02 he ran motion offenses like this. And then in OKC, he has Russell Westbrook who, he ran motion offenses like this. And then, and then in OKC, he has Russell Westbrook. You can't run a team like this, but we saw what he could do those last years of OKC with SGA, Chris Paul, Dennis Schroeder, right now,
Starting point is 01:40:13 the talent is just better in Chicago. And you got to give the players credit though, too, because they're, they're executing the system at an elite level because they're all sacrificing to row. It's not just Caruso and Lonzo Ball setting off ball screens and playing hard. It's DeRozan. It's Levine.
Starting point is 01:40:28 It's all these guys on this team that are playing that way. I think for the Bulls, they're a complete team. Like you said, they need more depth. Patrick Williams, you've got to get him back with his defense that he provides, even at his age. Right. Even if he can come back in April. They don't need a big move. They need
Starting point is 01:40:43 an average move. Yeah, they need to round out their depth. But the thing they figured out already, which is really hard to do, is the Levine-DeRozan thing. There's no ego with who gets the ball. Both of those guys can create in the last three minutes of a close game, but they seem to have a pretty innate feel for who should have it, who should make the decisions. And they really seem like they're pulling for each other. So I have a lot of Bulls fans in my life.
Starting point is 01:41:14 I'm really psyched for them because, you know, really since the 11th season with Rose, which was the last kind of fun Bulls team. Then they had those like those Tibbs teams with Noah. But those teams weren't like a barrel laughs to watch, right? There was like these gritty, winning ugly, like good D type of teams. This is like a really fun basketball team. And I think at least their first fun basketball team in 10 years. So pretty neat. Amazing free agent signing where I thought you didn't like it either, right? 85 for three for DeRozan. No, I liked DeRozan. I love them. You liked it for 85 million. I'm pretty sure I did, yeah, with
Starting point is 01:41:46 Chris Vernon. I remember arguing about this. Wow. I was not on board. I like DeRozan. I believe I said it's worth it if they buy in on defense. And they have. Everybody in that team has bought in on defense. I don't think anybody could have expected them to be as good as they are on that end of the floor, but they are.
Starting point is 01:42:02 And that's because they're all putting in effort every night. It's kind of the anti-Blazers. Billups says nobody's playing hard. Nobody's playing inspired basketball. The Bulls don't have that issue any night. It's bittersweet for me. I really think there was a chance for the Soats to get Lonzo. And I think he's just, that's a guy I want in a playoff series.
Starting point is 01:42:20 He knows exactly who he is. He's really smart. He does only things that he knows how to do. He's an excellent defensive player. Fun to play with. I just like him. I like his game. He's like the perfect fourth guy.
Starting point is 01:42:33 You know, it's kind of like, like if the Celtics had had to have given up smart to get him, I would have done that. And I would have said that in the summer too. I just think he brings more to the table than smart does. But what do I know? All right, KFC, you're on the mismatch this week. You're doing a Void video this week?
Starting point is 01:42:50 I'm doing a Void video this week on Thursday, and we're doing the Void pod on Wednesday. Oh, yeah, the Void pod on the mismatch feed. Also, you have a piece on the ringer tomorrow, right? Yes, I've got seven observations, just stuff around the league. Talked about Portland, Kings,
Starting point is 01:43:06 and a couple other teams. All right. Good to see you. Go Pats. Go Pats. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal.
Starting point is 01:43:13 Thanks to KOC. It was produced by Kyle Creighton. We'll be watching Patriots tomorrow night. Go Pats. Go Pats. I don't have feelings within
Starting point is 01:43:33 on the wayside I'm a person never I don't have feelings

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