The Bill Simmons Podcast - Brazen Ravens, Evil Vikings, Minshew Mania, and NBA Trades After Dark With Cousin Sal and Kevin O’Connor
Episode Date: December 6, 2021The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss the Ravens’ crushing loss to the Steelers, the Eagles’ win over the Jets with backup QB Gardner Minshew, the Lions’ first win of th...e season vs. the Vikings, Cardinals-Bears, Bengals-Chargers, the AFC and NFC playoff picture, and more (2:36). Then they guess the lines for NFL Week 14 (37:38) before closing the show with Parent Corner (1:04:49). Finally, Bill talks with The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor about their favorite fake NBA trades (1:12:33). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Cousin Sal and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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First, Pearl Jam. All right, Cousin Salas here.
Just watched a pretty boring Chiefs-Broncos game on a Sunday night,
but the day itself was pretty fun.
And as usual, it had something in common with the last couple Sundays for me.
I ended up losing money, but I don't want to start there. Let's start with the Ravens-Steelers game,
which was the weirdest game of the day. I don't know what was going on with Lamar Jackson.
Roethlisberger was half decent and Romo is acting like he's Tom Brady against the Falcons.
You know, this is a big win for the Steelers. Ben looks great. He had like 236 yards,
no picks, I guess means he's great. It all leads to the Steelers. Ben looks great. He's like 236 yards. No picks, I guess, means he's great.
It all leads to the Steelers scoring too soon.
The Ravens somehow coming back.
They score a touchdown.
And then it's like,
oh, fuck it.
They're going to go for this.
They're going to do the two-point.
And Lamar misses Andrews.
They lose the game.
Right call or wrong call?
I think it's...
I think it's the right call.
I know a lot of people
are going to be like,
you have Justin Tucker. you have the better offense,
you have, you know, so what if the Steelers win the toss?
You've been stopping them pretty well,
except for that last drive or two.
But the pass was there.
I mean, it was almost there.
It should have been there.
It was a great, great play call, just not executed.
Good move.
Probably Harbaugh probably felt, hey, my brother, I got this.
I got this juice.
We have what's opposite of the Cuomo's right now, right?
Going for us.
I'm just going to ride this.
It's a bizarro Cuomo.
Bizarro Cuomo.
I like it.
Out of the Harbaugh's.
But it just didn't, just barely didn't work.
But it just goes to show you, it's insane how close those games are,
regardless of how bad the quarterbacks are, how bad the offenses are and everything else.
It's always a one point game when those two play.
I know even the lines now, for all the games, it doesn't even matter if they're three anymore.
Three used to be the demarcation line.
No, it's not.
I'm going the other way.
I think the last five years with the analytics going into just be more and more aggressive and go for two points more and just like, go, go, go.
Let's do it.
Be macho.
Try to grab this game by the balls.
And then on top of it, like the culture that we're in now where it's like gambling, gambling, gambling.
Gambling is legal now in 18 states.
We talk about gambling all the time at The Ringer.
You have an entire site devoted to gambling.
I might shut it down, though.
I might shut it down.
I've had enough.
There's like a recklessness now.
Because if I'm the Ravens, I've won every close game I've been in this year, basically.
I'm lights out.
I have Tucker.
I have Roethlisberger on the other end who hasn't thrown a pick yet,
even though I've touched like eight of the passes that he's thrown in this on the other end who hasn't thrown a pick yet, even though my,
I've touched like eight of the passes that he started in this game, but I somehow haven't
gotten the pick yet. And I just feel like I, I I'm kind of built for these overtime,
go back and forth situations. And I didn't think Lamar was playing that well.
Yeah. To me, that's like, yeah, on paper, it makes sense to go for it. I get it.
But I watched the entire game.
Well, I watched most of the game.
I have a story about that later.
I didn't think Lamar played that well.
And you're putting the ball in his hands to win or lose the game.
I think he would have won in overtime.
He probably would have won in overtime.
I think there's decent points on both sides. But let's go back to what we always say.
What do the opposing fans want at that point?
I think if I'm the Steelers, I'm shitting when you see
Tucker come on, Tucker come off,
they call a timeout, they're screwing around
with them a little, and then Lamar stays on
the field. I don't know. I think
most Steelers fans would want to go to overtime too.
Interesting, because of the
fear of the moment or because you know
you think they're
going to get it? Because I was looking at it like
I was rooting for the Steelers
because the Pats are now the number one seed in the AFC,
which will last for another 18, 19 hours.
They could lose to Buffalo and drop to four.
They will.
Or five.
They will?
Yeah, I think so.
Is that a snide remark?
No, it's not.
I'm just judging.
We can go over this later,
but just put the tone of our text and everything.
You are way, way, way too full of yourself right now.
Not full of myself, not overconfident.
We'll talk about that later.
I was rooting for Pittsburgh.
I wanted
Baltimore to go for it because
I thought if I went to overtime, I thought I was game
over. Because
Tucker in overtime is the biggest weapon
in the sport, right? You just have to get
to like, what, the
45-yard line of the opposite side
and you're in field goal range?
I guess. I don't know about that.
Could the Steelers have gone all the way down?
The Steelers, it takes them 10 quarters to score 20 points.
They were at 18. I don't know. I just would have gone for it.
I think it was just mojo. I think Harbaugh's like,
hey, Steelers suck and my team wins close games no matter what,
so why don't I just end it now? I don't know.
We can go either way. Yeah, for sure.
I'll tell you one thing, one magical thing that
happened other than Roethlisberger leaked out
that this was probably his last season. We could
have guessed that. And then he had an okay
game and it seemed
like a strangely emotional game because it was
kind of the playoffs were on the line for them. It felt
like at one point. I think Romo
broke not only his own personal record, but the all- on the line for them. It felt like at one point. I think Romo broke not only his
own personal record, but the all-time
announcing record for huge
play, Jim! Huge play coming
up here! He had
I think 20 of 22 plays were a huge
play at one point. Somebody needs
to tell Romo to calm
down like a notch. Just bring it down
a notch. Not every play is a huge
play. There's five huge plays in a football game.
I think he gets excited.
Any quarterback over 34 years old is like a,
it's a miracle for him.
It couldn't last,
but here we go,
Jim.
You know what I would like?
I'd like is someone keeping track of the Howard Letterman versus Tony Romo.
Jim calls because,
okay,
Jim,
he's becoming,
he does say,
Oh my God.
He says Jim a lot in a given day. That's for sure. I don't know, Jim. He's becoming Jim. He does say Jim a lot. Oh, my God. He says Jim a lot in a given day.
That's for sure.
I don't know, Jim.
That's true.
Maybe he inherited it from Letterman.
Well, the Steelers are somehow alive.
They looked like they were DOA.
And yet, I didn't want to bet on Baltimore.
Baltimore was the one thing I somehow avoided.
If you look at the playoff picture, we have…
That tie is going to come. It's going to be everything, whether for or against them. It's
going to come down to that, right? We have Chargers at 7-5. We have
Cincy and Indy. Cincy's at 7-5. Indy's at 7-6. And then Pitt has this weird 6-5-1 record.
And they've already had their bye. And this is just going to be super hard to figure out.
Denver 6-6, Cleveland 6-6, Vegas 6-6,
and somehow Miami isn't dead yet.
This is kind of like,
it's kind of shaping up this way anyway,
but can we, because there's an extra week,
we have to pretend there's urgency here.
Meanwhile, everybody's got five games left,
and the Bills have six.
I don't like it. Some teams have six.
Can we just do a
round robin for the five
teams that are between the
six and seven seed in the AFC and
just watch those play out the rest of the
way? I mean, that would be great.
I don't know. Miami could be the best in the AFC
right now. I have no idea, but they're six
and seven. I want to see them go against the
Chargers and I want to see the Raiders go against the Braves. I just want to see all these teams go
back and forth for the next five weeks and then we'll start the playoffs. So like an NBA play-in
tournament? Yeah, for sure. Play-in for like a month. Well, if the playoffs ended today,
let's say for fun that Pats beat the Bills. Pats would get the bye. We would have Tennessee
against Cincy. We would have Baltimore against the Chargers
And we would have Chiefs-Bills
Now, the question for me
Because I want no part of the Chiefs in the playoffs
That's the team I'm afraid of
I assume Tennessee falls to four, right?
They'll be our AFC South division winner
Who's in the four spot
And then the top wildcard gets to play Tennessee who might have Derrick Henry
back, which leads me to my next question.
Who would you want to play out of Tennessee with Derrick Henry back Casey or
Baltimore? Because for me, I, I it's Baltimore in a heartbeat.
I would so rather play them than those other two at this point. Yeah,
for sure. And if Tennessee has Henry back.
And don't forget, Tennessee still has Jaguars and Texans.
So I know you have them as a four.
Right.
They can get 11 wins.
They can get to 11 by accident against this schedule.
Yeah, but the Ravens.
The Ravens, I assume in a month they'll have that shine.
We'll no longer be on them.
Where they're winning these bullshit games.
And we saw maybe it started a little today,
but although they do control the ball,
man,
that is something you want to do in January,
right?
They lead the league in time and possession.
And really this was a close game.
They should have won.
Actually,
I can name three or four that they should have lost,
but this seemed like one that they should have won,
but just the same because they're the Ravens because they don't get it done
in January.
That that's probably the team out of the three
you named that I'd want to play.
Well, we call these the 50-50 games,
right? Week two, they won.
KC, they won last second.
Detroit, Tucker makes the crazy
field goal. So they're 2-0 in 50-50 games.
They beat Indy in week five
in OT. So 3-0.
They beat Minnesota in OT
in a game they shouldn't
have won.
So now they're 4-0
in the 50-50 games.
They win that goofy
Bears game
in week 11
by three.
That's 5-0.
They were due
to blow one of these.
Forgot about that.
Even 5-1
in 50-50 games
is pretty good.
Didn't you used to
lay it out like that?
Like good wins,
bad wins,
and then something else?
Yeah, I used to
until every win is a bad win now.
I think we have like
two good wins a day.
But you think like
offensively,
the last four weeks,
they've scored 10, 16, 16,
and 19 today.
Well, he had like 10 interceptions
and six touchdowns, right?
Lamar over the last,
I forget how many games.
It was like four or five
or something.
It's the least accurate
he's looked in a couple years.
Right. For sure. Every time he releases
the ball, if it's like straight on
to the receiver, I'm almost a tiny bit
surprised. And their
pass defense, which Pittsburgh was
not able to exploit today because of
Roethlisberger, but I think
they play Green Bay in two weeks
and
to me, that's just like Rodgers lights them up.
It's very exciting, the AFC.
It really is.
I will say.
I don't mind it at all.
It's definitely more exciting than the NFC.
Well, the NFC.
So it's just if this is any indication, NBC, you know, when they have some downtime, they show the playoff picture.
And the AFC, I think there's 13 teams within two games of each other or 12 or something. The NFC, they just show the division leaders and the three wild cards and
they're like, that's it. We're not even going to bother you with the Atlantas of the world and the
Panthers and every other crap team that has a chance, but we're not going to put our graphics
people through that. I mean, Washington is the sixth seed right now. Right now we would have
Arizona 10 and two. We would have Green Bay
San Fran in round one.
Tampa, Washington, rematch.
And then Dallas versus
the Rams. Now, you might
be stuck in that four spot.
I'm thinking, I've heard Dallas Rams
now for like three or four weeks now.
I'm not sure that's going to change.
I think I would want to play the Rams.
I'm not thrown off the scent by them killing Jacksonville today.
I think that the one skill guy, Sony was, you know,
they actually needed Sony in the game today from a running attack standpoint.
I don't see it with them.
I think you could beat them.
I don't either.
The Washington thing is bizarre because I think if we had said,
if we had said there's going to be three NFC East playoff teams,
everyone would have thought we were on crack.
And yet the Eagles are a half game out of the seventh seed right now.
And we legitimately could have, I mean, they all play each other.
So maybe it's moot, but there's a world where we could have three playoff teams.
It's really nuts.
I'm looking at it now.
Washington, well, they went 17, 15, two weeks in a row or or Monday and Sunday. Between six days, they've won 17-15 twice. I still don't think they're that good. I mean, the Chase Young is your Ewing theory right now unfolding in front of our eyes, but they're a minus 51 point differential. I'm looking 246 to 297. They don't excite me at all. And you just look at, it's still got to be the quarterback that carries you to the playoffs. All right, they might
make it, but Tyler Heineke,
Tyler Heineke, I can't even say
his name. He's not winning three straight road playoff
games. Heineke's like
a poor man's Minshew.
They had some kicker,
some kicker they signed like a couple days
ago. He's coming in and make a 48
yarder. I thought
there's a 0% chance. This is
in Vegas game on the line. I guess dome.
Maybe it's easier in the dome, but
I just didn't think it was going in. I was pretty confident.
Didn't work for the Jets.
They just picked up off the street and missed two
extra points. And they're like, all right, we don't need to see
you the rest of the day.
He missed his first two
extra points and then they should have just sent him home.
Yeah.
I mean, they went for two every time.
Well, they didn't get many opportunities after that,
but that was it.
We've led the league in,
or led out of any season. I think we've had the most picked up the street kickers
where the announcer is like,
here's Sal.
Yeah.
Signed on Saturday.
They just threw him out there.
He has to borrow a friend's uniform.
I still don't get it.
Why kicking has gotten worse?
Well, it's just that we don't make enough of a big deal about it.
People are so hung on, like, why can't 32 players play the quarterback position?
It's like, well, you have to learn a playbook.
You have to get used to speed, defensive speed.
You have to get used to your own guy's routes and everything.
Kicking is kind of the same thing, right?
You move to the left two steps.
You take an approach at two steps, you take an
approach at the ball and you try to drive it through the middle. Why can't 40, 50, 100 people
do this? Well, when I moved to LA to work with our cousin, you had a friend who was a kicker
who was dabbling in, what was it? He was an XFL or what were the leagues he was in?
Yeah, no, he was in Arena League too. The second Arena League, yeah.
And it was like, maybe I could get a chance.
He would go try out.
And you wonder how many Stephen Greens are out there every year.
Are there like 200 guys like that?
Right.
I don't know.
I don't know why everyone's missing 32-yard field goals,
which are extra points.
I still feel like the road has been paved for the female kicker.
There's got to be some ex-soccer player like Carly Lloyd.
And then she had the kick like a year ago.
But if they're going to be around the same as these people that would be pulling off the street and you're like a 2-10 team, why not?
It'd be the most exciting thing your team could do for the entire season. If you were like the freaking Texans, why not? Let's say it'd be the most exciting thing your team could do for the entire season.
If you were like the freaking Texans, why not?
Why not?
Carly Lloyd for three, four questions.
Cause like, I don't know the purist and the chauvinist will be like, well,
what if she has to make a tackle?
It's like, well,
we saw Teddy Bridgewater not make a tackle and then not make another tackle
tonight.
I don't know what the hell.
We've seen lots of people not be able to make tackles.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's fine.
But if you're worried
about a tackle,
like go like somebody
in the back line,
like somebody who is
like a sweeper
or a back forward
or whatever.
Yeah, man, woman, whatever.
Just get someone who can kick.
Just,
if we're going to have
bad kickers,
at least give them
better backstories.
It's screwing up
all my bets.
I'm having,
I take plus seven and a half
adjusted lines
and everyone's down eight
because they don't have a kicker
who can sit straight.
All right. We're going to talk about Minshew. Let's take a quick break.
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Just search Movember. All right, Sal. I didn't have a lot go right for me today,
but my guy Minshew finally got a chance for the Eagles. This was the guy that I was completely
unironically serious that if we didn't get Mac Jones in the draft, I wanted them to trade for
Minshew. And I was confident that he could lead us to the playoffs.
He bounces around.
They take Trevor Lawrence. Nobody
wants him. The Steelers go into
a season with Roethlisberger,
who was washed up last year, and
Mason Rudolph as the backup, and a pretty good
team that is like a playoff team, basically,
with a headless horseman type of
situation. They don't even want to give up
a fit for him. Philly's like, all right, we'll trade for him.
They told the story during the game today
that the coaching staff of Philly right now
went against him when they were at Indy
and he lit them up and had like one incompletion
and they were like, followed it away.
So anyway, he lounges around.
It's week 13.
He finally gets his chance.
Now, granted, it was the Jets,
but you can't tell me he's not one of like the best,
I don't know, 20 quarterbacks in the league.
If he's on the Browns right now, are the Browns better?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I have to say, when I first saw the praise from Minshew on Twitter
and on our text chains, I'm like, you know, this is mean-spirited.
You're having a little fun with this, but you don't actually mean.
You don't like it.
You're just trying to rally. And then I'm like, well,, this is mean spirited. You're having a little fun with this, but you don't actually mean. You don't like it. You're just trying to rally.
And then I'm like, well, 28 teams ought to be ashamed of themselves
for not signing him as their backup.
That's my bottom line.
And my other bottom line is something you mentioned earlier.
Granted, it's the Jets.
So let's just remember that.
Here's the thing.
If I'm trading second round pick for Sam Darnold
and I'm trading for Teddy Bridgewater and I'm trading second round pick for Sam Darnold and I'm trading for Teddy Bridgewater
and I'm trading a conditional first for Carson Wentz
and I could just get Minshew for nothing,
who's produced everywhere he's gone.
And now his career stats are 39 TDs, 11 picks
for his career in the NFL.
And these teams, I just don't understand it.
Plus, even today you can see like his teammates love him.
I don't know if he's probably not going to start next week,
but I had some Eagles fans in my text who were like,
whoa, we can finally use our whole playbook
and those kind of jokes because they're running screens,
the ball was on time,
and I thought their offense looked better than their defense.
But it's just so weird to me that everybody spends so much time
trying to figure out a quarterback,
and Mack Jones falls to 15.
We saw Denver tonight.
They scored nine points with Teddy Bridgewater.
Actually playing good defense in a big spot.
Did what he usually does.
And there's Minshew.
And they passed Mac Jones.
They passed on him.
They took Sertan, who's good.
But I just can't believe this is the one position you can't fuck up.
And these teams over and over again,
gravitate to the wrong guys.
No,
I'm with you.
Now there are some Eagle fans.
They're like,
Oh,
we're 11 and two with him.
And if we sit jail and hurts,
I don't think that's true,
but,
uh,
he brings good energy and you see it in the parking lot afterwards with his
father.
That was,
that was great.
Um,
and it's fun,
but it begs the question,
is there another one out there?
Is Marcus Mariota another Gardner Minshew?
He might be.
Why isn't he in there?
Yeah, he might be.
I think if you look at Minshew's history,
putting up the giant stats in college
sometimes means nothing.
Other times, it might mean something.
Some guys are just good at stuff, right?
Yeah.
Same thing in basketball.
Sometimes there are guys who just have scored
at every level of basketball, and then they get to the pros, and eventually somebody starts playing on them, and they The same thing in basketball. Sometimes there are guys who just have scored at every level of basketball
and then they get to the pros and eventually somebody
starts playing on them and they score. He's good.
I don't understand. Sometimes, though, this happens
with Geno Smith. Had a great game that Thursday
night against the Rams and they came up short.
And then there's been
tape on Geno Smith, but I don't know. Do they
lose it? Do the coaching staffs
lose VCR tapes or something?
Oh, wait, we found it. We found the Geno lose VCR tapes or something like, Oh, Oh wait,
we found it.
We found the Gino Smith.
He'll be back to throwing three picks next week. So,
uh,
I don't know how crazy I want to go about Minshew,
but it's fun to have them as a backup for sure.
I'm going to go crazy.
I own beachfront property of Minshew Island and everyone's invited to come
hang out because Minshew is my guy.
I think he's going to end up on the Steelers next year and it's going to
piss me off because it'll be like,
Oh my God,
what a gem.
Perfect Mike Coleman quarterback.
Yeah.
I could totally see him
on a team like that
or the Browns.
If you're the Browns,
would you rather pay
$35 million a year for Baker
or would you just rather have Minshew?
No, I'd rather have Minshew,
but that's a tough pill
to swallow for the fans.
You got to convince them
to get excited for that.
Some of these fans just don't want
even a half a year of rebuilding.
But I'm with you. I'd rather...
I don't know if it's a rebuild. I wouldn't want to pay Baker
that much. All right. So that was my big win.
All right. The big loss.
We talked last week.
You did the lines.
And I was like, please don't let me put Minnesota
in a tease. Please don't.
Please don't do it.
You went to God.
You actually looked up.
I asked for the strength.
I couldn't fight it off.
Did it on million-dollar picks.
Put them in two of our three big teaser bets.
You know what it is, Schrager?
It's teaser week.
It's teaser week.
I was like, what the hell am I watching?
Four days ago, it was like, no, no, no.
We're staying away from this.
You're praying to God.
Like, what is this?
I couldn't get you to pick two teams. Every teaser hit
except this stupid Vikings team.
I've watched, I think, more Vikings games
than anyone other than the Pats.
For some reason, I have money on them every week.
I have fantasy guys.
And they spend a whole half.
Mike Zimmer, I think by the
time people hear this, will probably be fired.
Really? I thought that was a fireable
game. Wow. It's a fireable game.
Whole first half, they're rarely
blitzing. Goff is like a pretty
open book. It's like if you blitz Goff,
he's completely helpless.
If you let him stand in there, he can
actually be relatively accurate.
So they start blitzing
him. All of a sudden, Goff is completely
helpless. They make this huge comeback.
They miss the two-point conversion on one of the worst plays I. They make this huge comeback. They missed a two-point conversion
on one of the worst plays I've ever seen in my
life. They missed another two-point conversion.
They ended up missing three two-point conversions.
They scored four touchdowns and two
field goals and ended up with
27 points or whatever it was.
Or four touchdowns, one field goal.
But anyway,
they finally get this touchdown.
They cover the tees. There's a minute and a half left
The Lions are going to lose again
It's Jared Goff
A bunch of receivers I've never heard of in my life
They go into a pre-vent
And just let him throw a 10-yard
All of a sudden it's like, nah, we're not going to blitz him anymore
10-yard passes, moves on down the field
He gets to the 20-yard line with like 12 seconds left.
Huge cushion. Guy
gets out of bounds to the 11. It's like, alright,
now this is like, you can fire these in.
Eight defensive backs,
four of whom are like protecting the
Hail Mary, even though they're on the 10-yard line.
The other two
are playing so far off that the guy
who gets the winning touchdown just does a quick
curl. Right.
And nobody touches him.
He catches it.
He's not even touched.
It's the worst defense I've ever seen.
It was really bad.
It was up there with the Jets Raiders, right?
When the Jets were winless last year and they just let a fly pattern go.
Yeah, but that looked fixed.
Yeah, that looked like almost like that was.
No, it looked like that was fixed.
This is Minnesota's trying to go six and six.
I know. I know. You're right. It's Jared Goff. Just put some. No, it looked like that was fixed. This is Minnesota's trying to go six and six. I know.
I know.
You're right.
It's Jared Goff.
I don't know what to say.
Just put some.
No, it's our fault.
He's going to panic.
It's our.
You can blame Zimmer.
You can blame.
Is it Patterson?
Is the other defensive coordinator or something?
I think they're co-defensive coordinators or something.
Or you can blame us on the text chain.
We were having a lot of fun at Jared Goff's expense.
We were with Dan Campbell.
We were going off about those two,
how funny it is. Those guys are never
going to get it done.
Goff was trying. He threw a pick.
He had the fourth and one.
He had to ad-lib. It ended up being a fumble.
The Vikings get it. Leads to the touchdown.
And then,
I mean, Zimmer,
there's like four seconds left.
Play goes out of bounds.
Zimmer calls timeout.
Right.
Because let's give the Lions like three minutes to think about exactly what they want to do here.
Comes out of the timeout with eight defensive backs in the end zone,
none of whom were actually defending the end zone.
Yeah.
And then if you look at the play,
somebody's committing pass interference in the middle of the field
that they probably would have called if it wasn't a touchdown.
I just, I can't believe this is professional football.
This was their whole season.
I don't think they practiced all week for a, all right, let's pretend that Jared Goff
has the ball down with a chance to win from the 10 yard line.
Like, ah, let's skip that.
Let's do onside kicks or let's do something fun or something.
I don't know what happened there.
I mean, obviously I had them on the teaser too.
So that, uh, yeah, that blew big time, mean, obviously, I had them on the teaser too. So that blew
big time. But yeah,
maybe he does get fired. What more do you need
to see anymore? I'd need to see nothing.
They've missed their last four two-point
conversions. They've blown...
They've lost seven games. Six of
them, they easily could have won if they made one play.
Like one play. Not even
like three plays. It's like one play per game.
I was so mad because we
just can't get momentum, a million dollar picks. I was mad about my bets. They ruined, I had Dallas
attached to them. And that, so that Dallas game goes away. I had the Eagles attached to them.
That went away. I was so mad. I left, I left my house. You left your house? Yeah. What does that
I drove to the cryo place and I froze for three minutes and 15 seconds.
Did you really?
Yeah, I wanted to inflict pain on myself.
I just sat there in a freezing cryo chamber,
minus 240,
and just thought about Kirk Cousins
as I froze to death.
And I was like,
if I die right now,
blame Kirk Cousins and Jared Goff.
I don't even know how to unpack that.
You spent more on cryo
than you did losing that teaser, I'm sure.
I got a subscription.
I went and cryo'd my ass off.
Instead of crying, I cryo'd.
It was a cryo game.
I missed the first half of all the second games.
I was so mad, I just left.
Kirk Cousins is driving gamblers to cryo.
Kirk Cousins, Sherry Goff, Mike Zimmer.
And then I'm texting my friend, the Vikings fan, Jeff Galla,
who won't watch the game.
And I'm like, you got to see this defense in the last play.
He's like, fine.
And then like 20 minutes later, he texts me back.
I just watched it 15 times in a row.
What defense was that?
I was like, I don't know.
It was the defense where the guy runs right in front of you
and gets the game-winning touchdown when they're on the 12-yard line.
That was the worst thing I've ever
seen in my life.
Are Cousins and Goff the most
hated quarterbacks in the league in terms of
screwing up bets
for people? I'm trying to think if there's
another. Cousins has
to be one. But if there's two that were to match
up, it's those two. Or is it Stafford
in there? I don't know. Goff doesn't
screw up bets. I guess usually win on Goff.
People aren't betting Goff. I mean, the great thing about
the game today is you have the Vikings
and they're down 14. You're like, all right.
It's fine. We got
Goff. It's like you have like a mole on the
inside. We got Goff. Goff will take care of us.
The Lions were minus 310 to
win. I was like, this is a mistake. I don't
care if it even loses. I can't.
We have to go the other way with this. Well, and then after the Vikings score, this is a mistake. I don't care if it even loses. I can't. We have to go the other way with this.
Well, and then after the Vikings score,
they're up four.
They could have been up six,
but they missed the two-point again.
I think the Lions were like plus 310 or plus 350 maybe.
Oh, when the Vikings were up.
Yeah.
When the Vikings were up.
Right.
Would have been an easy hedge,
but it's like who in their right mind
is going to hedge with Jared Goff
with one timeout?
That's it.
And Campbell wasted
one of his timeouts,
so they had like no timeouts
left for the last drive.
Mm-hmm.
It was,
I know the Vikings,
the Vikings fans.
Listen, you,
Kalief Raymond,
Amon Ross,
St. Brown,
Brock Wright,
Godwin Igwebleke.
Amon Ross, St. Brown
was unbelievable
in the last drive.
He looked like
Wes Welker in 2007.
I picked him up and played him on Thanksgiving,
maybe even against you in fantasy.
He did shit, of course.
So, yeah, no, he had 10 receptions today.
Well, anyway, the Lions are out to Schneid.
We should have known.
Yep.
This is where I tell you to inflict bodily harm on me
if I ever put the Vikings in anything.
The problem is teasing a team like that.
I know better.
I just thought the lines were done.
And then I get into this Dan Campbell, Mike Zimmer chess match,
which was like a drunk chess match.
Mike Zimmer, please just move on with your life.
Don't stop torturing the Viking fans and gamblers everywhere.
Mike Zimmer's doing okay.
Did you see the supermodel he's dating right now?
I did.
He's doing fine.
Let's not feel so bad
for him anymore.
Maybe she could
maybe she could help him
on defense
from the 12 yard line.
Not so fast.
You're going to have
to pick them.
I know you like action
and they play the Steelers
this Thursday.
I know.
What are you going to pick?
Big Ben?
Come on.
That game the combo of Big Ben? Come on. That game,
the combo of Big Ben versus Cousins. Maybe those are the
two most... And Thursday night,
the stay away day. Just don't bet Thursday
nights ever. I'm not betting on that game.
Before we do Guess the Lions, let's talk about
the cards. The cards are 10 and 2.
They've won
all seven road games by 10 points or more.
And I haven't heard them ever mentioned in any sort of super bowl conversation i think most people are thinking now it's pat's chiefs or bill's
chiefs pack bucks maybe cowboys is a sleeper and then people like oh yeah and the cardinals
so here's the oh yeah team well i don't think people know what they're looking at with the
cardinals because their defense is actually better than their offense and kylo murray before today hadn't
played in a month and they're like i don't know they just have to kind of go away so but this
morning i had a talk with myself because i've been hemorrhaging just money just left and right
on the college and everything and i and i was like i can't do this week to week i gotta have
monster future bets to put in and and that'll be my thing.
Now, trust me, I lost enough money today.
This plan didn't work for like 40 minutes,
including your Vikings on a teaser.
But I threw a team out there.
I said, I'm taking Packers, Bucs.
I'm taking Patriots, Chiefs,
and I'm going to pretend the Bills and the Cardinals don't exist. And if
my team makes it, that's great, the Cowboys. But I made every combination with those four.
And I feel good about it until Arizona just runs the table. Are they going to just win
nine more in a row? Is that going to be it? Well, they have a chance here. If you get the
one seed. Sure. I mean, at that point you got two home games
and you're good to go. The one seed feels so dramatically important with this new 17 week.
The one seeds are the only one that don't have to play. It just seems like
such a massive advantage, even more than usual. And then they know like they get to play,
you know, either somebody in that 4-5 range
or if somebody else wins, the lower team, right?
And who knows?
The way this season goes, anybody can beat anybody.
Well, the one team I don't think it matters for is Tampa Bay.
I know nobody wants to go to Lambeau,
but if the Cowboys went to Arizona,
they'd have a fairly good representative fan-wise.
But I did want to say with tampa bay
i think this was the week this was the uh remember us asshole week like a bunch of people bunch of
teams saying hey remember us asshole starting with alabama who was on the verge of not even
making the playoff and now they're favored to win the whole thing at plus 120 on fandle
they did they remember us asshole i think tom brady did the whole thing at plus 120 on Fandle. They remember us asshole.
I think Tom Brady did the same thing.
I kind of predict.
I was like, he's going to go off.
He needs one of these games.
I know he had a pick six.
It was ugly, but four touchdowns, 368 yards.
The odds aren't up for MVP.
I think he's got that squared away minus an injury there.
And I think you're going to laugh, but I think the Chiefs kind of did the remember us asshole thing too.
They have a five game winning streak. Why are they not talked about like the
Patriots are? Five game winning streak. I know they had like 266 yards and one today, but
Denver was never in that. I don't care. As soon as they show the graphic, like Fangio's one in 18
when losing at half and like Bridgewater was the same. It was like, oh, this game is over.
They had an 11 minute drive. They came away with zero.
Chiefs are the one you want to avoid in the AFC, I think.
I'm with you, brother.
Mike Zimmer had a remember us asshole too today.
Remember us asshole.
Don't bet us. I forgot about that part.
He actually don't remember us.
Yeah.
Don't ever forget him.
Yeah, the Chiefs.
That was my chase bet tonight.
Yeah.
I did a giant Chiefs-Pats,
like finagled the Pats line to four and a half.
Or no, I did a tease, actually.
I did a seven-point tease with the Chiefs and the Pats. But I'm with you.
I think the Chiefs have figured it out.
We did a thing on Thursday about how they'd had 22 turnovers
in the first 11 games, just like how rare that is.
And it might just have been a small sample size aberration.
You know, a lot of those were bounce off the hands.
So if they're not turning the ball over, they're fine.
I'm not saying Mahomes is trying to throw interceptions and tip passes
or anything, but they kind of know when they have to kick it into gear, right?
Like, how many times have we seen that?
That's why you were all over the Cowboys and like, oh, they suck.
They suck.
This is not going to be this team in four weeks.
Granted, we still probably have Mike McCarthy, which is not great,
but let's see where we are in four weeks.
Didn't the Patriots, I mean, we saw the Steelers were 11-1 last year.
They peaked too early.
Patriots, were they like 10-1 that year that they lost to Tennessee in the
playoffs? You don't want to be great now.
You want to be great tomorrow. Well, we had the best defense.
Yeah. I think
I was watching the pregame show, which
I don't usually do. There's like 20 people
on it, the NBC show.
And they were really trying
to make the case for Denver. And it was a lot
of Chris Connors. I'll tell you, Al,
this team thinks they can win. You know, a lot of like Chris Consor's, I'll tell you, Al. This team thinks they can win.
You know,
so like a lot of that stuff
and good matchup
and they can run the ball.
And I'm like,
you guys,
I'm just watching it going,
you guys are insane.
You want to make a case
for Denver?
Do not show that
Vic Fangio 1-18
when trailing at halftime
graphic.
Because people
immediately going to
turn that shit off.
Or like KC's
beating Denver
over and over again for like a decade.
Yeah, 11 straight times.
Or how about their nine-point favorites for a reason?
Or like, you know, now that Clyde Edwards-Hillera is back, they actually seem a little friskier
on offense.
They have a little yin-yang with him and Williams.
I don't know.
They look pretty good.
Arrowhead at night.
It's a little colder.
Andy Reid off a bye.
Yeah.
I thought it was
weird that they were like trying to tell us how good denver was going to do anyway they didn't do
well and uh neither did we today with gamut did you have alabama or georgia in that game of course
i had georgia of course i had so what'd you do you did like money line in the underwood money line
with everything every little thing i mean it was so much so much better. I looked at the common opponents,
and they had beaten their common opponents, four
of them, so it's a good sample size, but like 26.
And Alabama won by
nine, and I was like, this maybe should be
like a 10-point spread. And then
right away, we saw, oh yeah, this is
I don't know, maybe this is just a way to get two
SEC teams in, but
we'll see. You'd be proud of me.
I watched most of that game.
You did.
Alabama just seemed way better.
That's my hot take.
They did.
Their skill guys are ridiculous.
Every year, they just have all these guys.
And I know nothing.
I'm like, oh, that guy looks like a pro.
He looks like a pro.
They were not interested in playing defense like they had been.
The Georgia quarterback, was that a bad game for him or is that on the bigger stage a little
nervous? I think that's the difference in recruiting.
They never got the quarterback that they
should have. That would have made the difference.
That's what
Kirby Smart has to do. You know Michigan fans, right?
You have a few in your life? Yeah.
They are like,
this could take over
the nation if Michigan wins. I'm actually nervous
for all of us.
There's a lot of them out there.
There's generations of them.
They didn't see this coming.
It's feeling a little 0-4 Red Sox-y.
I think it would have been 100 times more likely that Harbaugh was going to get bought out
in November or December versus how this has played out, right?
Yeah, for sure.
With all the buyouts, yeah.
It's going to be good.
They're pretty good.
I've watched a couple of Michigan games.
They're definitely good.
I think Michigan-Alabama would be a fun one to watch.
I don't think that Michigan would win,
but it would be a spectacle.
Yeah, either way, that Michigan-Georgia game would be great.
I can't believe that line is nine.
I would jump on that, for sure.
Michigan's got nine points?
Yeah, stupid.
All right, we'll do Guess the Lines.
Let's take a break.
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All right.
Guess the lines.
You mentioned it week 14.
What's the score?
I'm up by one.
Yeah.
I think you're up six five two or
something yep yeah well here's a game that i'm not going to be betting it's minnesota
but now this would be the case for them not to get rid of zimmer because they have a game on
thursday right maybe you wait to see what happens this game i've seen enough of zimmer all due
respect i never root for somebody to get fired,
but man,
you can't do... To lose that game,
I don't know how you bounce back
from that.
I definitely know instances
where you've rooted
for people to get fired,
but we don't have to go into it.
You mean Daniel
or somebody else?
Yeah, Daniel.
Yeah, for sure.
Sorry, Daniel.
We're just kidding.
I have the Vikings favored in this this game but not by a lot
i have them favored by one and a half i went big i said four and it's three and a half
oh man so i get that one i mean this is exactly where you don't want the
minnesota right at home laying points feels like an underdog bet. You know, we hit the underdog parlay again.
We've hit four in 13 weeks.
And we just missed on
three more. But if we just, if all
I did in million-dollar picks was underdog parlay
every week and I just made one bet per week,
with the odds you hit on those, I'd be way up.
I love it and it makes sense and everything
says the underdogs, but you're
always rooting for a shitty quarterback to throw a
touchdown in the fourth quarter. That's the problem, right?
Today we had Washington
and we had Seattle. There you go.
And then the backup pick was the Steelers, which
also would have won. And I had thought about doing the
three-way zag to just do a bunch of underdogs
together, but I just didn't want to bet
on Roethlisberger. The Steelers are amazing
because for two and a half hours, you could
watch their offense. I'd rather do almost
anything else than watch this offense.
And then they really just like, oh my God, Deontay Johnson,
one of the miraculous catches here by Chase Claypool.
What does Big Ben have it or not?
Really like a magic trick being performed in front of you.
They lead the league in two things.
One is wide open receivers who have to stop and wait for the ball
that come to them to ruin their long touchdown.
I think that's happened 20 times.
And then I was trying to think of who I feel worse for this year.
Who's a skill position guy in a team.
And it's,
it's Justin Jefferson and Najee Harris in the finals.
I think Najee Harris,
just all season running against eight men fronts,
three guys have to tackle him for him to go down.
Like he really like,
I would say he cares as much as anyone we watch.
Yeah.
This is like two and a half seasons for him.
He's like,
he's a veteran now.
Like when you,
when you go to draft them next year in fantasy,
consider that like he's a fourth year player.
Right.
He's at least like three and a half years in and he just cares so much and he
has no blocking ever. And he's like hurtling guys to get extra years in. Yeah. And he just cares so much and he has no blocking ever.
And he's like hurtling guys to get extra two yards.
So I feel bad for him.
And,
and then Jefferson,
he,
it might,
he's,
he's this year's candidate for like the,
he gets overthrown and he just keeps walking and he just walks out in the
tunnel and we just don't see him again.
It's like,
where'd he go?
He's gone.
Do you think he's on a text chain with Stefan Diggs?
Oh, no question. Right?
Yeah. I would love to know that.
He's like, hey man.
I know we've never texted, but I just
had to ask you that, that, that. I warned
you. Capital letters.
What, do you think I'm out of there?
Cousins was mad leaving
that Lions game. They showed him at the Lions were
celebrating. They showed Cousins just like screaming at somebody in the Vikings.
You know, here's the thing.
He didn't have been.
This happens a lot.
Like if you look at his ratio for touchdowns, interception didn't get worse today.
It's one of the best in the league.
And he had two touchdowns and no picks.
And he was sacked three times.
And he threw for 340.
You want him to make some throws.
They just aren't there.
But his numbers always seem to stack up.
What killed them was they had the first two drives,
field goal,
field goal,
and they left points on the board each time.
Right.
And then it was like,
oh,
it's going to be one of these games.
And then of course it was all right.
Sunday's marquee game.
What a gauntlet for the bills.
I mean,
I knew they had this gauntlet,
but then when you see it and guess the lines and we know they
haven't even played the pats on Monday.
And then six days later, they have to go to Tampa and play this Bucs team. That definitely looked like that little attitude today. Bucs-Bills, I have the Bucs favored by three and a half.
Yeah, you're going to get it. I said five. Why is this so light? The Bucs are better, and they're home. Why is this? It's three. The answer is only three. I think people are still a little nervous about the Bucs secondary.
That's not 100% healthy yet.
They should be nervous about that.
But even if the Bills smoke the Pats tomorrow,
I would still think the Bucs are in good shape,
like even better shape then.
I'll say this about the Bills' Pats.
The Duggar thing is dangerous for the Pats because he's been
one of the best players in the team this year
he's got a COVID thing and it's like we don't
know for sure if he's playing or not but that guy
he's just been awesome
and he's so physical and the other team
always knows when he's out there
he's all over the place and I think
that's a big loss and then the Mac piece of it I'm nervous about it he's a there. He's all over the place. And I think that's a big loss. And then the Mack piece of it,
I'm nervous about it.
He's a rookie. It's his 13th start.
You know, Monday night, it's going to be cold.
You shouldn't be so confident on
the text. I'm not confident. I'm confident by
the quality of this team. I'm not
as confident that they will beat the
Bills. But I think it should be a close game. And I
think White being out for the Bills is a big deal.
He's our best defensive player.
That's true. Losing him on Thanksgiving was rough.
You also have another one against them
too, so it's not that terrible if you lose.
We do, but this is
a put yourself on the map.
You win this one. You're the number one
seed in the AFC. You have a better
conference record than anybody.
Even if the Bills beat you in New England, it's still
a draw and you have a better conference record than them.
Like they're in the freaking driver's seat at this point.
By the way, you win this week, then you root for Tom Brady.
Right.
That's really, I mean, either way, you're going to root for him next week.
I have a confession.
I root for Tom Brady a lot.
Of course you do.
I know.
I get it.
I love that guy.
I've even watched two episodes of Man in the Arena,
which I thought was really good.
Really?
I really enjoyed it
I don't know if it's good
because
I don't know if it's good because I'm a
Pats fan but it's really well done
and there's like good
lessons in there about work ethic and
leadership and being a teammate
I don't know I'm kind of into it
I've watched some of it with my son
your son's a football player you should watch I know I don't know. I'm kind of into it. I've watched some of it with my son. Your son's a football player. You should watch.
I know. I know. I don't respect
Patriot fans. They're still
in love with
Tom Brady. I just can't do it.
Not in love.
He's the ex-wife that we're
on incredible terms with and we've raised some
great kids and we're just trying to
wish the best for them.
Unlike the mom on Succession
tonight. I watched Succession.
You watched it? How are you watching this?
You're not listening at all then.
I had Chiefs Broncos on the right
TV for an hour and I watched Succession.
It was the episode of the year.
Was it? I'm hearing good things.
Yeah, it was good.
Anytime it's a big setting with a wedding,
thumbs up. The watchables. It was good. Anytime it's a big setting with a wedding, thumbs up.
All right.
The watchables.
I got three.
Ravens Browns.
In Cleveland.
This happened what?
Two weeks ago?
It was 16-10 Ravens, right?
This was exactly two weeks ago.
I never remember doing it.
Well, last week.
This is our 15th year of Guess the Lines.
I never remember just casually throwing out minus ones
when we do Guess the Lines.
And two of my next three picks are minus one.
I have the Ravens minus one at Cleveland.
Son of a bitch.
I said minus two.
It is minus one.
You get it.
Crazy.
I never would have guessed that two years ago,
three years ago.
There were never minus one games.
That is such a stay away. That game has like leprosy, COVID night,
every variant of COVID, like just stay far away from it in terms of betting.
Are you kidding me?
I think Lamar's had one of the weirdest seasons we've seen.
Yeah.
Where it was like, he got COVID again. It's like, what's going on with this guy?
Then all of a sudden it looked like he got COVID again. It's like, what's going on with this guy? Then all of a sudden, it looked like he had his shit together.
And then he had this run of fourth quarters and comebacks.
And you're going, wow, this guy has really figured it out.
I actually trust this guy.
He's got these weapons.
And that kind of peaked around midseason.
Then that Thursday night game when he sucked and they lost, it flipped.
Right.
And now I don't know what to think anymore.
If you ask me my opinion on Lamar Jackson,
what's his ceiling?
Can you win a Super Bowl?
I have no idea.
If I was on NFL Live or First Take
and the segment was Lamar Jackson,
they'd be like, all right, we're going to talk about Lamar for 15 minutes.
I'd be like, I'm out.
I don't have any opinion.
I don't know what to say.
I watch football every week.
I have no opinion. I'm not in. I'm not out. I'm out. I don't have any opinion. I don't know what to say. I watch football every week. I have no opinion.
I'm not in. I'm not out. I'm not sideways.
Well, I want to cut him a little bit of slack
because his top five running backs have gone out.
Yeah.
Devonta Freeman is like 14 for 50, averaging like three and a half yards a carry.
So he now has to run the ball.
I don't know.
Unless Mark Andrews is open,
it doesn't seem like anybody else can get separation.
But I think that's an interesting question.
Like how many quarterbacks you put ahead of them to win a Super Bowl,
a Super Bowl,
not just this year.
I don't think that's a Super Bowl team.
The only thing that was interesting about them was their ability to pull
these games out.
And then it finally backfired on him today.
It's a Tucker thing.
Sacked seven times.
It looks like he's under siege.
It looks like teams have figured out,
just don't let him get to the either corner,
right?
They always have guys there now.
And anytime he tries to turn one corner or the other,
there's always somebody there and they're just not afraid of the running
game at all.
And sometimes like when you're running back suck like this,
you can kind of pass the point and no return.
I felt like it happened to the 07 Pats
when we lost Sammy Morris down the stretch,
even though we were undefeated.
But it was like our running backs were terrible.
And at some point, teams are like,
all right, we're just not afraid of any running back you have.
Yeah, I don't remember a long pass from him
down the sideline,
not middle of the field
to Andrews,
like a 45 to Marquise Brown,
all these speedsters.
I can't remember the last one.
Rashad Bateman,
did he get thrown out of the game
or something or hurt?
He had nothing, right, today?
Didn't see his name a lot today.
They might have to bring back
the old Flacco offense.
Just go for PIs
like every 10 plays.
Yeah.
Well, I mean.
Did you notice Carr?
Did you see Carr today in the end of that Raiders game?
He's the best at it right now.
He's like the GOAT.
But he didn't get it.
He should have gotten it.
He should have gotten it.
And the next two plays should have been exactly that same play.
It's like that's the only chance you have of getting in field goal range.
Why are you throwing an eight yard out right there after that?
You got 10 seconds.
Do one or two more of those see what happens he's the best in the league at buying enough time to
throw a bomb and throwing the bomb and the way he lofts it it always seems to fuck up the d-back
yeah and it seems like every time it's a pass interference they call it half the time but
that plays unstoppable i trust him you three, I think, more than
a lot of these QBs in the league.
I do too. I just think they got
their calls on Thanksgiving against
the Cowboys and the league said, that's it.
No more for the Raiders.
Especially when
God only knows what happened with this Gruden email
thing. Have you been following
some of this stuff? There's more?
He's still emailing.
What'd he do? Well, Gruden's going to sue everybody on this. And he's basically like,
why did only these emails come out? Where are the other ones? Why me? Why was I targeted? Like this,
I think could get really ugly. They have to settle with him. This, this would be just atrocious. And it so ironic that he learned from the master, Al Davis, how to
sue the league, except it's not going to be
on behalf of his team.
The story could be really ugly
and the good news for the NFL is
they have a commissioner who's screwed
up situations like this over and over again
for 50 years. You still don't like that guy. I am not a fan.
Not a fan at all. Next one.
Chiefs home again for the Raiders.
Let me see
if this moved because I checked it out before
the game, but I'm staying with my... I'll just tell you this.
If this line is under nine, I'm teasing it
when we finish the pod. Okay.
I have the Chiefs
by eight.
Alright.
You are... Where is it?
Wait, hold on. What did I miss?
You get it also. I had seven and a half. It's eight and is it? Wait, hold on. What did I miss? You get it also.
I had seven and a half.
It's eight and a half.
So go to it.
I'm teasing it.
You want to take a break real quick?
No.
We have time.
Don't forget.
That's a wrap.
So the Raiders are done.
They're six and six.
You can see like...
I don't think they're done.
Like nine and eight is going to be a seven seed in the AFC.
See that? I've been saying that for a while. Yeah, you've been saying it. they're done. Nine and eight is going to be a seventh seed in the AFC. See that?
I've been saying that for a while.
Yeah, you've been saying it.
You're right.
It's weird because there's too many teams
banging each other out of it here.
It's got to be that way.
We didn't talk about Chargers since he,
but Chargers take a huge lead.
Since he comes roaring back
because the Chargers are the Chargers.
Burrow gets hurt.
So you go from thinking,
oh, the Chargers are going to blow this.
This is going to be 24-24.
They miss an extra point.
Burrow hurts his pinky.
Now it's like, oh, the Chargers got this.
But then the Bengals come roaring back anyway.
And then it seems like the Bengals are going to win,
mix and fumbles.
All of a sudden, the Chargers are up nine,
and you think they're going to win.
But I left that game not liking either of those teams.
Well, here's what I should have let you know ahead of time.
I bet the Chargers, because Fandel and some others have,
you could adjust to anything.
So I had the Bengals plus seven and a half.
And they were driving to take the, well, first of all,
Jamar Chase has a touchdown, right?
It was a great, perfectly thrown ball before Burrow got hurt,
and he somehow bats it back to the defender as an interception. It was an
80-yard touchdown that he batted up
in the air and turned into an interception. It was like
a 10-point swing. He also batted up
his Offensive Rookie of the Year hopes, too.
He did, because he bobbled another one
later. But yeah, he wasn't that great. And then
Mixon fumbles. They're driving to take the lead
there. And Mixon fumbles
and it's run back. Is that a mix six?
I guess it's a mix six if he fumbles and it's run bad. Is that a mix six? I guess it's a mix six.
If he fumbles and it's run back for a touchdown. Yeah. And then they just,
that was a stupid game. Terrible. But I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. You're
right. Like the Bengals look really good. There's seven. I saw there like minus one 70 to make the
playoffs. I mean, they could really blow it. They lost to the, they got killed by the Browns. That
was a game for 10 minutes. They lost to the Jets. I don't trust any
of these teams. Chargers,
Cincy, Indy, Pittsburgh, Denver,
Cleveland, Vegas, and Miami. All live.
I'm telling you. Do the round robin.
Start now.
You know, Denver's got
the Lions this week, and then
Cincy next week.
And then they're at Vegas. So they could pull
right back into this if they wanted to.
The Colts have home New England at Arizona,
home Vegas at Jacksonville.
Because your instinct would be like,
oh, the Colts, they probably are the best of all those teams.
But they might not even get to nine wins.
Yeah, they have tough games.
And then the dumbass Chargers,
they get to play the Giants at home this week.
So they could all of a sudden be eight and five.
And that might, at that point, all they have to do, they could all of a sudden be eight and five. And that might,
at that point,
all they have to do,
they have Casey at Houston,
Denver at Vegas.
I think you win one of those and you're in.
Eight and five,
you might be one win away.
Nine and eight,
I think that's it.
If the tiebreakers are right.
Now they beat the Steelers.
Well, the Steelers,
they won't tie with anyway
because they have the tie,
actual tie to the Steelers.
Yeah, they could do it,
the Chargers.
Okay.
Last watchable. It's your team
playing the team that you're
secretly scared of.
A team that we had seven
Ewing 30 scouts watching them in Vegas this week
after they lost Chase Young
and somehow got better.
The Washington professional football team.
The people on Twitter who do the hail thing for them,
but it's not their old name anymore. It's like, hail, the Washington professional football team. The people on Twitter who do the Hale thing for them. Yeah.
But it's not their old name anymore.
It's like,
Hale,
the Washington professional football team.
You need a new slogan.
Give up the Hale.
The Hale doesn't work anymore.
Sorry, guys.
Yeah.
Straight to Hale with that.
Yeah, I agree.
I think your Cowboys are favored.
I think they're favored
by one and a half.
Oh, wow.
No respect.
I like it, Simmons.
You don't respect them. Cowboys by four and a half. Oh, wow. No respect. I like it, Simmons. You don't respect them.
Cowboys by four and a half.
I said four.
I definitely don't have respect
for the Cowboys.
They're better than that.
I mean, they may even lose this game,
but they're better than
the three-point favorite.
Are you kidding me?
I think you need to make
your announcement
for the Extra Points Network.
What are you talking about?
That when Zeke Elliott
gets waived in nine weeks,
he's going to be joining you guys
to do a fantasy basketball podcast.
I'd love to have him. He's injured.
He's playing hurt.
Look, in a month, it'll all make sense.
What's his next team, you think?
April. April
range. Who goes for him?
Texans?
To try to get some Texans?
Fox has a fall league or something, right?
Isn't the XFL coming back on the spring leagues?
Meanwhile, Pollard, it's like, what the hell does that guy have to do to get the ball?
I know, but we're going crazy about that.
But like everybody you talk to that knows something says you got to get Zeke in there for blocking purposes.
I know you hate it and it doesn't show up in the stats.
But if you have Pollard out there, they'll know the Blitz.
They'll know they're running or something.
Barely Watchables.
Wait, did you do 49ers Bengals?
You don't like that one?
I have that one in the next category.
Oh, you do? All right.
I thought it was Watchables.
You want to do it now?
I'll put it in the watchables.
I don't really enjoy watching the 49ers that much.
Without Debo, right?
Yeah.
Especially today where Jimmy G.
Well, Seattle has to get one home win, don't they?
I know they had one, but once in every three games,
they have to win a home game, don't they?
Seattle is dying to give that away too.
Sure.
Yeah.
Jimmy G just has never been the same since he hurt his knee.
Mm-hmm.
I don't think.
Bengals at home against the 49ers.
And I think the Bengals are favored by two and a half.
I was way off here.
I said four.
It's one and a half.
So you get that.
Why is that one and a half?
They're seven and five.
The Niners are six and six. Banged up.
Bengals coming off a loss. West
coming east. Why is
that one and a half? I don't think
we'll have Debo
or Warner in that game who are only
two of the three best players on the team. That seems relevant.
It's a nice spot for the Bengals.
I don't know what to make of the pinky finger with Burrow, though.
They had that weird play thing in the first half.
I was just going to say that.
He could have done the Hail Mary, and he just punted on the half.
That was bizarre.
No, well, the problem is he hadn't taken a snap under center with that finger.
But there was still enough time to spike it from the shotgun, I thought.
It was at the line with seven seconds left.
Have your running back take the snap.
That was weird.
Barely watchable as I got one. Panthers, Falcons. I thought like it was, it was at the line with seven seconds. Have your running back. Take the snap. That was weird.
Barely watchable as I got one Panthers Falcons Panthers fired their offensive coordinator today,
which is morning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of the weirdest kind of timing things.
Like why you,
you had to buy this week.
So you wait seven days and then you fire the offensive coordinator.
My guess,
I know nothing.
I've checked no Twitter message board,
anything,
but I wonder if he was talking to teams and they found out.
Oh, really?
Oh, with all this college stuff.
Yeah.
Why would you fire him seven days into your bye week?
That doesn't make sense.
What would you, you saw all this Lincoln Riley stuff, all the stuff they gave him.
They paid for two houses in Norman, Oklahoma.
They bought him a $6 million house out here,
which is, I think it's one and a half bathrooms or so.
I don't know what you get.
What would you demand?
Where am I moving to?
You're moving here from Norman.
Like when you came from Boston,
what did you demand?
From Kimmel?
Well, yeah.
But what would you demand if the budget was unlimited?
What would you say I have to have?
I guess you're a cryo therapist.
Yeah, I'd probably want a cryo chamber.
Okay.
Let me think.
Well, I didn't even own anything in Boston when I left,
so that part would have been easy.
Right.
The part where they have to buy the two houses he lived in in Oklahoma
is just bizarre to me.
For $500,000 more than asking on each of them.
Yeah, that's weird.
Then the person's paying house taxes.
We'll think about it.
Well, so he's living in USC, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I think at that point you can live in South Bay.
Right?
Yeah.
And you could take one time to work every day.
So I'd probably ask for the 90210 house in Hermosa Beach.
Oh, the actual house.
The actual house.
Yeah, that $15 million 90210 house.
Put a helipad on top, maybe?
I'm still disappointed Kimmel never bought that.
That would have been the most exciting real estate moment of the decade.
Is it up for sale?
When was it up for sale?
Yeah, every once in a, it's up for sale.
Some magical moments that it has.
Yeah.
I think he should have asked for
some giant Hermosa beach house.
All right.
Barely watchable. It's only at one.
Panthers, home for the Falcons.
I had the Panthers
by three.
You sure you don't want to say three and a half or two and a half? No. Yeah, I had three. Also, it's three. It's exactly three. You sure you don't want to say three and a half or two and a half?
No.
All right.
Yeah, I had three.
Also, it's three.
It's exactly three.
Carolina won 19-13.
That was only a few weeks ago too, right?
I figured out what Matt Ryan is great at.
What is it?
Getting everybody fired up to hustle to the line
when they're down 13 with 40 seconds left.
I don't think anyone's better.
Really?
Guy never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never quits. Never anyone's better. Really? Guy never quits.
Never quits.
Come on, guys. Come on. Let's go.
Let's go. Let's go. He's got to spike it.
He's like, now you mentioned Daniel
before, but Daniel's like that too, like going
from party to party. Like, let's go, guys.
Let's go. Let's go. Huddle up. Huddle up.
You're getting this cab. Okay.
Poop fact
that Titans home for the Jags.
I think after what we saw today from the Jags,
I don't see how they're less than 10 points.
And yet I have Titans by nine
because I don't know anybody on the scope position side
on the Titans who I trust.
All right.
I squeaked this out.
I said 11 and a half.
It's 10 and a half.
Yeah.
You know you're putting that in some kind of something.
Definitely not.
31-19, they beat them first time.
Staying away.
All right.
Saints-Jets, that's in Jersey.
Man, there are like six or seven more bad games.
And this is the last bye week, right?
Colts-Dolphins-Pats-Eagles are on bye.
Both of these are Minshew teams, in my opinion.
Saints-Jets?
Minshew and the Saints. I think they're like 10-2 right now
I have Saints
by four over the Jets
I said five and a half, it's six
It's still the Jets
That's crazy
What was it like having your team go against
Taysom Hill who can't throw anyway
but then he had an injury
What do you want me to say? To just know he's going to throw it to you against Taysom Hill who can't throw anyway, but then he had an injury. I mean, that must have been great.
To just know he's going to throw it to you
every four passes.
It was nice that they figured it out.
I don't think Mike McCarthy would have figured it out
until the 12th or 13th quarter,
and it would have been too late.
Like, hey, stack the box against this guy
who's got a giant metal rocket on his middle finger.
Seahawks-Texans, another terrible game.
That is in Houston.
Tyrod Taylor lost his starting job at halftime today to Davis Mills,
who's really not much better.
And amazingly, the Seahawks, who were almost dead,
who are now 4-8, who are somehow not out of the playoff picture.
Oh, my God.
And I think they're favored by more than a touchdown.
I think I have them at 7.5 over the Texans. We split it. I said
6.5. It's 7.
Is our Lions to have the worst
record bet in jeopardy
here? I don't think so.
Really? Yeah, I think we're alright.
They're going to lose this week. That's our next one.
Broncos home
for the Lions.
I think this is an even seven.
Broncos by seven over Detroit,
who's been kind of hanging with teams,
even though they're not confident.
I'm going to get this.
I said seven and a half.
It's eight and a half.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
That's too high.
I've taken the lead here, Simmons.
Seven to six with three games left.
I'm going to go back to it.
This is a bad batch of teams to be off.
Colts 7-6, Dolphins 6-7, Pats 8-4, Eagles 6-7.
That means we're going to have extra bad games.
Yeah.
Those are decent teams.
You picked 8.5.
I have 8.5 for my next one.
It's the Chargers at home against the Giants.
Now, normally you would say, oh my
God, so many
fans from the New York team.
But if you're a Giants fan,
do you go to this game? Do you want to be
around the other Giants fans? Is it like going
to a funeral?
I don't know if I'd leave the
house for this one. There's obviously enough
transplants here to fill that
stadium for sure. I wonder how many
made this. But for what purpose?
To chant fire
the coach? Fire Glennon?
Get rid of Danny Dimes? What
chants are you doing? I don't know.
Maybe people made this their trip, their December
trip before Christmas.
What a sad trip. I had eight and a half
also. It's ten. But it's the
Chargers for God's sake. You know this is going to be a close game. I had eight and a half also. It's 10. But it's the Chargers, for God's sake.
You know this is going to be a close game.
This sounds like a bit for you
where you go dressed like Tyree
with the football stuck to the top of your head
and you just walk around.
Try to put a smile on people's face.
Sunday night, Packers-Bears.
These games are terrible, Sal.
We really have a couple good ones.
Was this flexed in?
No. This was always a game, right? Yeah, this
one stinks. The Bears
looked shot. Talk about
a bottom five team. Wait a minute. What the hell
happened to Nagy being fired and then
they said it and he's going to, all right, after
Thanksgiving, but then he won Thanksgiving and
it was awful again today.
I mean, well, I think they're really banged
up, but now you're hoping
you have one of the worst records, right?
It's going to be 4-9 after this game.
They stink. I had the Packers
by 12.5. Wow, you
nailed it exactly. I said 10.5.
Now, wait a minute. Let me add these up. 4-5,
6-7, 8. 1-2-3, 4-5.
I think it's 8-8.
All right. One game left.
It's Monday night.
It's in Arizona.
Cards, Rams.
I do not believe this Rams team.
I have the cards favored by three.
I said four.
It's three.
You get it.
Congratulations.
I love the cards in that game.
Well, they crushed them at SoFi, right?
37-20. They're calling this the Schrager Bowl. He, they crushed him at SoFi, right? 37-20?
They're calling this the Schrager Bowl.
He's good friends with both of these coaches.
Oh, right. That's right.
He should just sit at midfield with one of those jerseys
where he's got half Rams, half Cardinals.
I don't like what I've seen from the Rams.
I'm not a believer.
I'm not either.
And I was like, what has to motivate
Stafford after seeing Jared Goff
win a game? And it didn't happen.
Although I think he was like 20
for 22 from the
second quarter on.
Jacksonville looked like
they had spent a fun weekend
in LA and they wanted to get out. Yeah, they're bad news.
Who knows what Urban was up
to there. All right, let's do Parent Corner.
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All right, Sal, you're up.
Oh, so
your kids are too old for this, but
mine playing, is it Roadblocks?
Roadblocks? Yeah, Roadblocks.
Roadblocks, yeah.
My son's on, my
seven-year-old, Harris, is on
I don't know, 13, 14 hours a day.
Oh, yeah.
And because he's got it, and he plays with friends,
and he's screaming at his friends.
Oh, and one of his friends has a baby sister
and plays in the room with the baby sister,
and the girl's crying the whole time.
It's terrible.
It's really bad.
And we hear it.
I'm like, please, just move to another room or something.
Or Harrison, you move to another room.
But anyway, so he plays Roblox and occasionally he'll ask for $10 gift card.
Like it'll pop up.
Harrison has requested $9.99 for this and you can buy shit and characters and stuff.
And I'm like, I don't want to do this, but let's see, like it'll buy me an hour, $10
for a babysitter for an hour. Like that's a
great deal. Right. So, all right. So once in a while I'll give in $10. So I happen to be looking
over his shoulder the other day and he's writing, cause you can message in there. He's writing scam,
scam, scam. I said, Hey buddy, what is this? He's like, no, I don't want to, I don't want to say
anything. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, you're going to get mad. So you better just tell me
what is happening here. He's like, well, I gave up my golden dragon and I traded it because someone
said they were going to give me a polar bear and they got my golden dragon and they left the room.
And I was like, well, how much did you spend on this golden dragon? He gives me some,
I don't know, some Bitcoin thing. I don't even know. I was like, well, how much did you spend on this golden dragon? He gives me some, I don't know, some Bitcoin thing.
I don't even know.
I was like, what is that in dollars?
Like what real dollars?
And I think we spent like six bucks on this golden dragon that he just gave up and he lost.
And I said, what is this girl's name?
He's like, Ellen 03917.
So I'm telling you right now, Ellen 03917.
And I know you're listening to this.
I'm going to come get you. And we're going to get that polar bear from you
and we're going to make reparations because you don't steal
I don't know if this is a 75 year old woman
maybe it's a man I don't even know
what LNO3917
but you can't steal
from a 7 year old
and it is a scam scam scam
how dare you
what a tough lesson to learn for a kid who
should just be at recess swinging from a jungle gym yeah no kid said he's getting scammed by ellen
779 lno yeah i don't want to lno yeah sorry i don't want to lno you should be a shander anybody
yeah terrible job roblox people are saying that's what the future is going to look like these
alternate universes that we live in.
It's just like, my current life's not working
out. I'm just going to go into this different universe.
Yeah, you'll never have to visit Rome
or anything.
You'll live it off the Roblox.
I'm concerned.
I saw Licorice Pizza this weekend.
What?
It's Paul Thomas Anderson's
movie. It's great. It's movie. Yeah, right.
It's great.
And it just goes back to this simple time in the 70s
when we didn't have any of this stuff.
And it's just, I don't know.
Something to be said for it.
Nice.
Didn't know smoking was bad for you.
My parent corner.
So we have some thieves in my house.
There's a lot.
My daughter is a clothes thief, which I think I've
talked about before, but you know, she can wear a lot of my wife's clothes now and it's just stealing
stuff left and right. And it's become like a real issue and it's the maddest my wife gets. And then
my daughter's claiming she didn't steal the stuff and it's just in a different drawer. But we feel
like sometimes after she stole the stuff, she sneaks back in, maybe puts it back or whatever.
Like she's, and my wife now wants to put a camera in the closet to try to catch her.
This is what my life is like right now.
Don't you have a ring camera?
Don't you see them coming and going anyway?
Not in the closet though, to like really, really get it down.
I know, you see what they're wearing.
People always say like when the daughter turns like 14 the mom and the daughter
turn on each other and it gets ugly and i was like nah it'll be fine in my house and now we've
reached a point where my daughter my wife wants to put a camera in the closet to catch my daughter
so that's been great um and then my son who as you know is, is a liar, I have to now hide my wallet because we had to take,
he had emergency Apple Pay on his phone that, of course, he abused.
That was a mistake.
Note to self, don't put Apple Pay.
It's like, oh, it might be an emergency.
He might need it.
Nope.
Nope.
That was bad.
He spent $65 at Gelson's with him and his loser friends.
Ben, did you take my cryo gift card?
I need that back. Ben,
where's my cryo coupon?
So now
I was noticing my wallet.
So then I started counting
in my wallet and I
thought it was him and it turns out it was actually my
wife was stealing the money. Oh, perfect.
But I think he might have been too,
but there's just, it's a house
of lies right now, Sal. Right.
That's all I can tell you. Did you accuse him?
Did you accuse him of it? Oh. And then he got
super mad. Well, now he's got a free one.
He's got a free swipe now. Right. Because if you
accused him and it's your wife that did
it, now he's like, all right, I got a free one
coming to me for sure. Well,
he gave me this one, which I got to say hurt my feelings.
What do you care?
It's going to be all mine anyway.
What do you say to that?
It's unanswerable.
No, you're wrong.
Yeah, I'll probably be right at some point.
I will decide when it's yours.
You don't want to say.
I will decide when I die.
Yeah, because then I'll kill you.
So you don't want to say that either.
Yeah, you don't want to spell it out for him.
Oh, that's a running joke.
He's the Menendez brothers.
He calls himself Benendez.
Really?
He's like, yeah, Benendez.
Not that funny.
Well, maybe he'll start dating
LNO3917.
You can see it all coming together.
It's going to be all mine
someday anyway.
It's like the all-time Trump card insult.
Oh, that is succession.
Because they're not wrong.
At some point, you and I are dying.
Yeah, yeah.
At some point.
Our kids are going to outlive us,
so he's not technically wrong.
You have the best succession episode
just playing out in your house right now.
It's all going to be mine.
Definitely a lot of stealing.
Yeah, I love it.
That's it for Parent Corner.
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Alright, what do you got to plug, Seth?
Fox Bet Live, Monday, Friday,
6 p.m. Eastern this week.
I'll have my Thursday night football pick.
I'm off the Schneider. I had the Cowboys.
They won. Easy, easy victory
over the Saints. I'll come back for two
in a row. And ExtraPoints.com.
All your sports gambling needs are there.
Our first touchdown picks on Against the Lods plus 73 units.
So listen for that tomorrow.
How's Harry doing?
Is he up or down lately?
He's up, but he's in Hawaii too.
Like he's, he's crazy.
He's, he's going on all these.
He's in Hawaii.
It like snowed there.
You know how it is with him.
And did you know that it snowed there though?
Yeah, I know.
I was, I was rooting for a monsoon.
Yeah.
He brings the snow.
Harry gets stuck there.
All right, Seth.
Good job by you.
Good job by you, buddy.
All right.
Kevin O'Connor is here.
NBA Trades After Dark.
That's the working title of this segment
where we just talk trades.
I guess the team du jour for the trade machine
and just in general is Portland.
Portland finally fires Neil O'Shea the other day, uh, rumored to be coming for weeks, gave away a
couple number one picks for Covington and Nance thinking that it would improve their defense.
It is not. Dame has not looked healthy for six months. He's out of the lineup right now.
It looks like they missed their window to make a move with these two guys, which you did a whole thing in the ringer about a couple
days ago. Sometimes
you can miss your window with this stuff.
Philly, I don't feel that way. I think
the Simmons thing was hard to predict. I think the
Portland thing, there were real cases
for and against that this team's had a lot
of success. You don't break that up.
Or this team had a lot of success because of some
stuff that happened in the West that moved in
their favor. And now the top West teams are too
strong. And now it's time to
make a move. So do you think
they took too long here?
I mean, no, I don't think they took too long
to make a big move. There could still be
something out there with CJ McCollum.
But I mean, the
way I've been thinking about this team the past week
or so, Bill, is they're in a position right now where there's two paths you can go.
I still think you can say to yourself,
Portland's the next Phoenix.
They're just one or two moves away from the finals.
The sun's got Chris Paul and Jay Crowder.
Who are those guys for the Blazers?
Is it like CJ McCollum and,
you know,
Yusuf Nurkic for plus picks for Ben Simmons and Christian wood.
Is it something like that?
Whatever the deal is for the Blazers to get better, it could be that.
Going forward, all is totally fair for this team, too.
Because think about the Raptors.
You stay in it with Lowry and DeRozan, then you flip DeRozan for Kawhi.
So it's a good path to go that way.
But, I mean, you watched the game on Saturday night.
I did.
Getting a 145 to the Celtics, right?
And Lillard's 31.
He's out with that
abdomen injury you mentioned,
which has been an issue
since at least August.
And just the way
they lost that game,
it was a reminder again
of this team isn't just
one or two moves away.
They're not in the suns.
They're not in a position
like that,
so they don't have the depth
of the top teams.
Plus, Dame's been hurt.
And I couldn't help but think to myself
watching that night, this is a team
that really needs to also consider saying,
hey, you know what? It's time to blow it up.
They could go that way too, Bill.
Well, it's funny.
Billups really went after him after
the game, which was unusual for a new coach,
and he was saying, he was killing
the starters. He was like, we gotta
get out of the habit of our bench
being the part of the team that cares
and the bench constantly having to save the starters.
It just, it had the vibe of a team
that it looks like something's wrong.
And they've looked that way all year,
but the Boston game was the worst version of that
where it just, it looks like one of those teams
where they don't really like playing with each other
and they don't really know what their identity is,
which is a problem.
They have all the symptoms of it.
I mean, even before the game, it was reported Cronin, their new general manager,
sitting courtside with Burt Cole and Jody Allen.
Whole new power regime.
That's all changed.
Billups replacing Stotts.
The coach has changed.
The only core that hasn't changed is the roster, the team.
That's it everything else in the everything else in the organization is different now except for the roster and so i mean which path do they
go here i think that's what makes them i mean obviously so fascinating because they could go
down the path of you know what we're going to stay in it we're going to try to make it work with dame
but the other path isn't so bad if you want to bottom out for two years
and go for some Northwest guys
like Paulo Bancaro in the draft,
Chet Holmgren from Gonzaga.
I mean, it's an easy sell for Portland
if you want to go to the blow it up route
and tank this thing out
when the 2022 draft is very strong up top.
The 2023 draft is going to be headlined
by Victor Wemba Nyama,
the seven foot two French prospect
who we've talked about before.
Dominance. So There's a path.
We're going that route. Makes some sense
for Portland.
They have some picks that they're
committed on, right?
They don't have all their picks.
No, that's what I'm saying.
I guess this year
it's
top 14 protected.
They would keep it if they bottomed out,
if they tried to tank.
Yep.
But down the road,
I think they're missing at least one of their first.
Maybe they're not.
Maybe I'm,
I guess they,
maybe they got rid of those Covington ones.
So yeah.
So this one,
if they bottom out,
then they'll keep their pick.
So I guess they could do that.
Yeah.
This is the last one.
And this one is protected,
I think through 2028. So it's a long do that. Yeah, this is the last one. And this one is protected, I think, through 2028.
So it's a long time that they are locked up with it.
I'm torn on this one because, as you know,
I hate trading a guy who's a potential,
or not potential, is a top 10 guy in the league,
which I think Dame was until this season.
Agreed.
I just, the history of that stuff,
unless you're getting somebody else awesome back,
doesn't work. On the flip side
He's 31
He's had the
Abdominal thing
The abdominal thing
This year
I don't love the history
Of little guards
As they get older
And you saw it with Kemba
Now Kemba had some
Knee injuries and stuff
But when you're little
And you lose like that
One third of a step
Or a half step
Your game can completely change
Or Isaiah Thomas Isaiah Thomas is another one Yeah and you lose like that one third of a step or a half step, your game can completely change.
Or Isaiah Thomas.
Isaiah Thomas is another one.
Yeah.
Now he's a better shooter than either of those guys where I get it.
And he's a better player too.
At the same time,
like I don't feel like this team is remotely close.
I don't like the players that they have together.
Nurkic is on his last year. Covington's on his last year. I don't like the players that they have together. Nurkic is on his last year.
Covington's on his last year.
I think it would be hard to even get real assets back from them.
You might have to look at taking a longer contract back for one of those guys to even get rid of them for any sort of value.
And I just don't really know what the moves are.
I think it's a weird team where you have Nurkic coming to Nance
and then you have the two small guards
and then Powell's in there
and then you have this slew of guys off the bench
that you never know what you're getting.
I just don't know what the identity of that team is.
It makes no sense to me.
Whereas you watch the Bulls,
I didn't love the DeRozan contract.
I thought it was too much money.
You watch the Bulls and they just make sense.
They like playing with each other.
So you go from that Bulls game the other night
where they lay it to the Nets
and DeRozan was unbelievable.
And then you watch Portland
and they're like beyond a funk
and the Celtics are doing whatever they want
and they look like they're getting 150 points.
That seemed like a cry for help kind of lost to me.
So I think they're in blow it up mode.
The question is, is it McCollum or is it Dame?
I think McCollum isn't the blow it up route.
That's the we're going for it all route.
Because with McCollum, if you, if let's think about like what Sean
Shawani reported in early October, Philadelphia offered Portland, Ben Simmons for CJ McCollum
and three first and three first round pick swaps, which is an unreasonable amount to
ask for, which is why Portland said no.
But the conversations at least indicate that Philly has some interest in their part in
absorbing McCollum as a veteran in a deal.
There's a lot of room for
negotiation there and if you're Portland to me Ben Simmons makes logical sense as everybody's
been talking about as one of the two moves just because of what he could bring to the table
with their defense and with Damian Lowe and the half court so but it's what's the other moves to
me that I think about around that idea for the Blazers, if they go that route.
But ultimately, though, Bill, as you're saying,
blow it up, as we're both saying here,
blow it up as a very fair route for them,
especially considering how strong
those upcoming draft classes are.
And these moves might not be enough anyway.
The McCollum thing's tough,
because he was a lot more palatable
before he was making $33 million a year.
Yeah.
Makes him harder to trade.
You got to get a big salary back.
And,
you know,
I,
I went to,
I thought there were more CJ McCollum trades out there that I'd be excited
about than there was because somebody has got to have the big,
like,
for instance,
if you're Toronto and Portland's like,
Hey,
fuck it.
McCollum for Siakam.
What do you think?
And Siakam is somebody who I think
we both know is available.
I don't know if I'd do that if I'm Toronto.
Where does that get me? Now I have Van Vliet and McCollum.
I think McCollum's a hard guy
to fit
with who you have if you have
another small guard. Now you're in the same
situation Portland's in. So it's almost like
it's got to be their team. I think the Knicks
would actually weirdly make sense for him
because he could be somebody
who could create crunch time.
That's a team that their
point guard situation
isn't like incredible.
RJ Barrett could go back,
but that's,
the Knicks can't really do anything
until mid-December.
To me, like,
I think if you're going to do Dame,
this is the time
to kick the tires on it
and see if you can get
the Simmons and Maxey
and some picks
from Philly if Philly's feeling a little panicky
that they have this Simmons asset that
they're not going to get anything from. And I guess the question
is, how many picks is that and is that
enough? Should more teams be involved?
I was trying to figure out a
four-teamer. This is the fake trade I'm going to throw
at you for NBA Trades After Dark.
Where the Knicks get
De'Aaron Fox.
Sacramento gets
Ben Simmons and Al Burks.
Philly gets
Damian Lillard. Portland
gets Maxie, RJ Barrett,
Bagley, Knox, and a slew of picks.
Hmm.
Something like that.
Who does Portland get again give me those names
for Portland so Portland would get
Maxie
RJ Barrett who's young
Bagley
expiring and Knox expiring
and they're giving up Dame
and that's really it
and they'd get to keep CJ and decide
whether they want to do and they'd get a bunch of picks
okay a bunch of picks too.
That's important.
So if you just cut that
down one at a time, right?
The Knicks would be giving up
RJ Barrett
and Knox and
Burks for De'Aaron Fox.
I feel like they have to throw in at least one
of the picks they have for this year if they're going to do that.
Right?
Are you sure you do that if you're the Knicks i feel like i feel like a lot of knicks fans right now are like hell no i'm just i'm just i'm just thinking about that because with
rj he's so young the offensive flashes he showed last year's a six seven score very good defensively
i don't know i mean i'm not saying I wouldn't consider doing that,
but I really like RJ. No, the funniest thing about this trade is I'm not sure any of the
teams do this except for Philly because you and I are both suspicious of Fox. At the same time,
I love trading for any asset from Sacramento because I think that's a top three effed up
situation. And you bring them into the Kentucky cocoon in New York. You bring them to the city with like,
it's a point guard city and change of scenery.
And Fox is pretty young.
I think he gives a shit.
I just think he's had a bunch of coaches and he's been on a bunch of weird
teams.
And if he was in the right environment,
I think that's a pretty good bet.
RJ has gone backwards this year,
in my opinion,
from what I've seen.
Offensively.
He has.
Yeah. Yes, definitely. I mean, no question. He's gone back. So it in my opinion, from what I've seen. Offensively, he has. Yeah.
Yes, definitely.
I mean, no question he's gone backwards.
Could be an early season slump.
We'll see how that works out.
But it definitely looks more like his rookie year version
than the guy we saw last season.
That's for sure.
So then separately, if you're Sacramento
and you could get Simmons and one more player for Fox
and dump the Bagley contract.
I think you'd have to think about it
because from what we've seen from Mitchell,
and I think Halliburton needs to play point guard.
So you're gaining the asset in Halliburton
having the ball more
because I think he's really struggled
not having the ball.
I think he's another one
who's taking a step back this year.
And that's a good roll of the dice for them
because Simmons was the top 20 guy last
year. Fox has never been a top
20 guy. So anyway,
that was just a thought. That trade, don't aggregate
that. I'm just thinking out loud.
But I was trying to think of the
most fun four-teamer. I still think
the easiest trade that makes the most sense is
Maxie,
Simmons, Dame,
and then figure out how many picks need to be
in there. And that's a trade that I think makes
sense for both sides, especially from what we've seen from
Maxie. You had that one on Twitter, right?
Yeah, I had that one on Twitter. And it was funny
because I looked at some of the replies. Half the people
are mad from Philly, half the people are mad from Portland.
Interesting. Oh, that's a good trade.
If both sides are mad, then we're
probably stumbling into something here.
That always is a good indicator with those.
All right.
What do you have for your trade?
So, I mean, I had a similar thought as you regarding CJ deals.
How many teams did you find in all your Dame research that made sense for Dame?
Because there's really not many, right?
Knicks, Sixers, as you mentioned.
Who else?
Pelicans, maybe?
To pair with Zion?
Mavs?
Well, he makes 39
million.
So just starting there,
the salary gets really hard.
And then I think a lot of
teams like their point guard situation.
You go through the league, you just
cross half the teams off right away because
they're like, we're good. Detroit's like,
no, we don't want Dame lowered. We're good. We're
rebuilding. We have Cade and we'll see how this goes the next few years.
But you go through all the teams.
I guess like Washington,
if you get to talk them into upgrading from Dinwiddie
for Dame and throwing a bunch of stuff like that,
I'm sure you'd get their attention.
Same thing for Indiana.
But you would also have to think like,
Dame has to be happy with the trade.
You don't want to acquire somebody who's fucking miserable.
So that limits it to like LA teams and Philly and kind of big markets.
And it's unclear if he wants to even get traded anyway.
You know?
Yeah.
So anyway, what do you have for McCollum?
No, for sure.
I mean, I was thinking about, well, actually for Dame.
This is a Dame thing.
Oh, Dame.
Okay.
Let's say New orleans wants to
really try to accelerate things around zion to me i mean they have all the picks they have
multiple different salary combinations you could do something around ingram if you wanted to
you could do something with a lot of picks around satiransky heart davante graham there's different
combos that they could put together and they have so many picks from the deals they've made, including for Drew Holiday
and Anthony Davis, Bill.
New Orleans Pelicans, they're like
whatever combo you want to put together,
lean towards keeping Ingram.
So Sadoransky, Hart, Graham,
and a whole bunch of draft
picks, they could beat anything else
that's out there for Damian Millen and pair him with
Zion.
Question is, what am I getting from Zion?
So I'm mortgaging my future
to try to leverage my Zion situation
and I have no idea if Zion could stay in the court.
That would be my favorite.
I would look at trading Ingram if I was them.
I'm just not convinced he's a winning player.
Do you think he's a winning player?
Sometimes.
And I say that in all due respect.
I just
try to think of him in round two, round three
of the playoffs. Where is he?
Could he be Chris Middleton on a playoff team?
Or could he be the scoring
small forward who has some size on defense?
I believe in him in that sense, Bill.
I think with Ingram, he's shown enough
over the years as a scorer. His development
is for real. The three-point shot's for real.
The defensive aspect is where sometimes I'm like, damn, why isn't he the same guy I saw that last
year with the Lakers, where playing with LeBron, I thought he was fantastic on defense. And not
every night, he was inconsistent, but he really brought it for them. And that hasn't happened
the same way with the New Orleans Pelicans. So if he can tap into that, maybe it only happens in a situation
where winning is the expectation.
And if it is that, then I believe in Ingram
because he could just be one of those types of guys
who turns it on when he wants to,
turns it on in a playoff situation.
So I believe in him in that sense,
and I wouldn't want to move him.
But if the right deal is out there,
he's not untouchable.
But I'm not looking to move Ingram, no.
Too good, too young.
I was trying to figure out a McCollum
trade.
And I was trying to figure out a way to get him to
Dallas.
McCollum's with Luka. I like that
combo. Yeah, like kind of a
high-tech version of what Seth was doing.
It's exactly what Dallas needs,
offensively anyway. And they just have
no assets. They don't have a centerpiece.
You would say, I guess Porzingis from a contract wise,
but that guy I don't think has really any trade value
at this point for any sort of significant
as the centerpiece of a deal
where you're getting a really good guy back.
So I was just going through the teams
and I think it's really hard to find a McCollum trade too. You end up taking on somebody else. I, I swear, I thought about this for a split second
on Saturday night and then I was like, no, no, no, they'll never do that. But I did think about
Westbrook and McCollum and sort of deal for a second. And if you're playing 2k, you would have
so much fun playing 2k. No, no no i thought of it more from like
watching portland just lifeless and dead and i was like this would actually be a good westbrook
team he would come in he'd try to get triple double every night he would really give a shit
and then la could get mccallum but there's just no way i don't think i don't think westbrook's
tradable it's a fun it's a fun alternate universe to think about like i said you should play 2k
franchise mode bill you should do like a I said you should play 2k franchise mode
Bill you should do like a write a column
about 2k franchise you act like my son
doesn't do that the other one I was thinking
was um is there
something with the Warriors potentially with Wiggins
and one of their guys
hmm
involving
McCollum
McCollum I don't know not Wiggins
Wiggins is important Wiggins and Moody for McCollum. McCollum. I don't know. Not Wiggins. Wiggins is important.
Wiggins and Moody
for McCollum?
Something like that?
Do you need another guard?
For which team?
The Warriors or the Blazers?
Yeah, for the Warriors.
Wiggins is an important piece.
I mean, McCollum
maybe in a vacuum
is a better player,
but Wiggins is their
stopper against
opposing stars
at the wing position.
It's hard. I really think it's hard to opposing stars at the wing position. It's hard.
I really think it's hard to find him a column trade.
It's much harder than I expected.
Then you could go to the Utah side with some
picks and Clarkson,
stuff like that, but I don't know what that does for Portland.
I had a lot of trouble figuring it out.
So we have,
from a panic standpoint,
I would say Portland and Sacramento are probably one, two on like, it's clear that they have to do something.
Right?
Who would you say is third?
Indiana?
I mean, Indiana, with the way Rick Carlisle is using Sabonis, I have something in my Monday article about that.
But it's like, Sabonis' touches on post touches and Monday article about that, but it's like Sabonis' touches
on post touches and elbow
touches have been cut in half pretty much.
And that's what he's done best on
offense. And with Carlisle,
he did the same thing with Chris Stapp's poor Zingas.
Hopefully so, but with KP,
he was like a horrible post scorer
and a pretty good three-point shooter.
Sabonis is a pretty good post
player and a poor three-point shooter.
So he's doing more of what he's worse at.
And you think about that situation
and where are they?
They're smack in the middle of the league.
They're not good.
They're boring.
Wait, they're lower than the middle.
They're 9-16.
Oh, yeah.
They're the third worst team in the East
and seventh worst team overall.
So I think their desperation is set in.
Yeah.
And this is a team where, what are they?
They don't have much of an identity either.
And it seems like Rick Carlisle, their coach, also has a different philosophy than what
the players are on the team.
So for this team, I think trading some bonuses should be high on their list of things to
explore, especially this year's deadline bill.
This is a dry trade market.
We can't even find
good deals for McCollum or good deals
for Lillard. There's just not a lot of people selling
and not a lot of great fits for the guys
that could be available. So Sabonis
could become one of the best players on the market. It's a
pretty good big. And I have
no idea what his actual trade
value is because
don't think I'm not thinking about him on
the Celts.
Seeing the way Horford's playing?
Well, I'm saying
could you have,
could there be a trade with Williams
and some
stuff if they wanted to do like a
3-4-1, get some picks, whatever.
But I would assume they would want
a chess piece back for
Sabonis.
But on the other hand, the way they're using him this year,
they're actually hurting his value.
I'm a huge fan of his.
I would be trying to get him.
I think he'd be an interesting Sacramento guy too.
But I don't know what the right fit is.
So you would keep Turner and trade Sabonis or vice versa?
Yeah, that's the way I'd go.
Based off of having an aligned organization. Carlisle, Sabonis, the way he uses Sabonis or vice versa? Yeah, that's the way I'd go. Based off of having an aligned organization.
Carlisle, Sabonis, the way he uses Sabonis just isn't going to work.
Right.
But Turner is more in his wheelhouse.
Bingo.
So I mean, for Indiana, I think it seems like we're pointing in that direction.
Is Sabonis the most Spurs-y kind of big man that's out there?
I mean, I could totally see him going there and immediately lighten it up.
I would love to see a
Sabonis-Purtle frontcourt. Those two
guys whipping the ball around the court to
interior bigs. It'd be like something out of the
2000s with the Spurs. It'd be fun to watch that.
What do you tell, before
we go, what do you tell a Denver Nuggets fan right now?
I mean, just enjoy yokich seriously just
enjoy yokich this this is a guy who just won an mvp and he came back a better player he he's like
an all defensive candidate so far this season bill he's been extraordinary on defense and this is a
guy just a couple years ago people were saying was a liability because he was yeah he got good
and now he's great on defense this is is an MVP who just keeps getting better.
So enjoy that.
Him, Giannis, KD, and Curry is about as good
of a final top four as we've
had. Like for just people
playing
in a lot of ways the best versions
of themselves and their career
all at the same time. It's funny though.
I think if you did the all-NBA, I mean it's
freaking ridiculous to even bring it up, but if you did the all-NBA, I mean, it's freaking ridiculous to even bring it up,
but if you did the All-NBA right now,
I think DeRozan would be
the first team guard for me.
Yeah.
I think I would give him the look
because Luka is kind of like,
that's his spot.
But I'm not voting Luka
first team All-NBA this year
from what we've seen
in the first 20 games.
So it would be DeRozan or Booker.
And I actually think DeRozan
would have the edge.
But the stuff he's doing,
he's definitely gone up a level.
And the Toronto fans are like,
no, no, he did this in 2017.
He averaged 27 a game.
But I just feel like from a decision-making standpoint,
he's on another plane IQ-wise.
That's what he did to Brooklyn.
I was so impressed.
He went toe-to-toe with Harden and Durant and did whatever he wanted in did to Brooklyn. I was so impressed. He went toe to toe with Harden
and Durant and did whatever he wanted in the fourth quarter. It was great.
Bill, he became such a better player in San Antonio. It's wild. His last year in Toronto,
to Raptors fans point, that's the year he started to figure it out as a playmaker.
But then over three years running the point for San Antonio, he really mastered the mid-range and
that's made him a better shooter because he's getting more open opportunities for mid-range.
He's not taking and forcing as many shots
because he's making smart passes.
It's crazy how he gets traded for Kawhi Leonard
and Toronto wins the championship.
But then, meanwhile, DeRozan gets better
and now he's on a team that actually has another chance
right here to win a championship in the Bulls
because they do have a shot.
Do you agree there, Bill?
The Bulls are in this, in that group of teams that can win it all.
I 100,000% agree that they have a shot.
I think they need some depth somewhere, which I'm sure they'll get.
There might be a buyout guy for them too.
The shocker for me is Donovan.
I was actually arguing with somebody about this this weekend.
I think Donovan's been the best coach in the league this year.
And you think about, he goes to OKC
and he's basically stuck with Westbrook
all those years.
The hardest guy to coach of the last decade, basically.
And then inherits
that Chicago team last year that was a mess.
They're just locked in.
Especially in close games. I love all the decisions
they make. They always have the right guys in the right spots.
The right guys are playing.
And he seems to me like the...
I think he's the best coach
that I've seen in the first 20 games.
Billy Donovan finally has pieces
that could work with him.
You know, with Donovan,
when he was at Florida,
he ran motion offenses like this.
And then in OKC, he has Russell Westbrook who, he ran motion offenses like this. And then, and then in OKC,
he has Russell Westbrook.
You can't run a team like this,
but we saw what he could do those last years of OKC with SGA,
Chris Paul,
Dennis Schroeder,
right now,
the talent is just better in Chicago.
And you got to give the players credit though,
too,
because they're,
they're executing the system at an elite level because they're all
sacrificing to row.
It's not just Caruso and Lonzo Ball setting off ball screens and playing hard.
It's DeRozan. It's Levine.
It's all these guys on this
team that are playing that way.
I think for the Bulls, they're a complete
team. Like you said, they need more depth. Patrick Williams,
you've got to get him back with
his defense that he provides, even at his age.
Right. Even if he can come back in April.
They don't need a big move. They need
an average move.
Yeah, they need to round out their depth.
But the thing they figured out already, which is really hard to do, is the Levine-DeRozan thing.
There's no ego with who gets the ball.
Both of those guys can create in the last three minutes of a close game,
but they seem to have a pretty innate feel for who should have it, who should make the decisions.
And they really seem like they're pulling for each other.
So I have a lot of Bulls fans in my life.
I'm really psyched for them because, you know, really since the 11th season with Rose,
which was the last kind of fun Bulls team.
Then they had those like those Tibbs teams with Noah.
But those teams weren't like a barrel laughs to watch, right?
There was like these gritty, winning ugly, like good D type of teams. This is like a really fun basketball team.
And I think at least their first fun basketball team in 10 years. So pretty neat. Amazing free agent signing where I thought you didn't like it either, right? 85 for three for DeRozan.
No, I liked DeRozan. I love them. You liked it for 85 million.
I'm pretty sure I did, yeah, with
Chris Vernon. I remember arguing about this. Wow.
I was not on board. I like DeRozan.
I believe I said
it's worth it if they buy in on defense.
And they have. Everybody in that team
has bought in on defense. I don't think anybody
could have expected them to be as good as they are
on that end of the floor, but they are.
And that's because they're all putting in effort
every night. It's kind of the anti-Blazers.
Billups says nobody's playing hard.
Nobody's playing inspired basketball.
The Bulls don't have that issue any night.
It's bittersweet for me.
I really think there was a chance for the Soats to get Lonzo.
And I think he's just, that's a guy I want in a playoff series.
He knows exactly who he is.
He's really smart.
He does only things that he knows how to do.
He's an excellent defensive player.
Fun to play with.
I just like him.
I like his game.
He's like the perfect fourth guy.
You know, it's kind of like,
like if the Celtics had had to have given up smart
to get him, I would have done that.
And I would have said that in the summer too.
I just think he brings more to the table than smart does.
But what do I know?
All right, KFC, you're on the mismatch this week.
You're doing a Void video this week?
I'm doing a Void video this week on Thursday,
and we're doing the Void pod on Wednesday.
Oh, yeah, the Void pod on the mismatch feed.
Also, you have a piece on the ringer tomorrow, right?
Yes, I've got seven observations,
just stuff around the league.
Talked about Portland,
Kings,
and a couple other teams.
All right.
Good to see you.
Go Pats.
Go Pats.
All right.
That's it for the podcast.
Thanks to Sal.
Thanks to KOC.
It was produced by Kyle Creighton.
We'll be watching
Patriots tomorrow night.
Go Pats.
Go Pats. I don't have
feelings
within
on the wayside
I'm a person
never
I don't have
feelings