The Bill Simmons Podcast - Brooklyn Bliss, Draymond’s Dip, and CJ McCollum Stops By

Episode Date: February 3, 2021

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares his thoughts on the Nets’ win over the Clippers and the Warriors’ loss to the Celtics (2:30) before talking with Trail Blazers guard CJ McCollum about his tenure in Portland, bonding with Damian Lillard, the positive impact of Portland’s many playoff appearances, the oddity of the NBA bubble, McCollum’s injury, NBA media, and more (28:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I'm taping this a little before 10 o'clock Tuesday night Pacific time. Just watch the doubleheader on TNT. Clippers, Nets, Celtics, Warriors. I figured a couple things would pop out of those games. And of course, a couple things did. Let's talk about the Nets first. So if you watch the Nets on Sunday night when they gave up 220 points to the Wizards and you think this team is a defensive nightmare,

there's no way they can put together four straight rounds. You got KD in crunch time playing the five. I'm not sure that's what he signed up for, whether they get a bio guy, whatever. They're small, they can't get stops. And they're just trying to outscore everybody. And that's just, you left Sunday night thinking, all right, well, that's a 1980s basketball team. That's not going to do anything. Then you watch them tonight playing a Clippers team that I thought played pretty well, except for whatever the hell's going on at their point guard position where Beverly's out.

Reggie Jackson's playing too many minutes and they're paying Luke Kennard 64 million over four years to play four minutes. I don't know what's going on there, but I thought George and Kawhi played really well. And there was a moment in the game or about midway through the fourth quarter. The, the Nets are down five. It's 102-97. Durant makes a pull-up jumper.

Harden has a turnover. Kyrie makes a three. Kyrie makes a two. Kyrie makes a 26-footer. Harden makes a step-back 26-footer. Then you have Kyrie gets blocked. That's fine. Kawhi gets a

blink. Coming back, Durant makes a 21 footer. A little pull up. It was beautiful. Harden gets fouled on a three. Durant makes a three. And all of a sudden it's 118 to 108. And you're going, what the hell just happened? Not only did they just rip off 21 points in five minutes,

but all of them were involved and all of them looked great. All of them did stuff. And the ceiling of what was going on was really frightening. And especially the Kyrie part, because when I was watching, I was thinking, it reminded me, I thought the 2017 Cavaliers were a fantastic offensive team and they're going to get lost in history because they went up against a buzzsaw in the finals.

KD's first Golden State team, a team that I think is one of the three best teams of all time. And that's what they lost to. And, you know, they got the title in 2016. I think the 2017 team was actually a little bit better. But if you think about the model of that team and how good they were offensively, you've Kyrie in the Kyrie spot averaging 23 to 25 a night can float in and out. Doesn't need to be the primary ball handler can have these four minute heat checks where he just swings the game and you don't know what the hell happened.

You have Harden in the LeBron spot, you know, and obviously he's not as powerful of a player as LeBron is, but same kind of playmaker, same ability to get his own points whenever he wants and the feel for the game and getting everybody involved, stuff like that. And the crazy piece to this is you basically have KD in the Kevin Love spot. And that's really the only coincidence they have. But KD has like the four or five, you can go big with him at the end of games. You can put him in the corner like they used to with Kevin Love.

But oh yeah, if you want to run and play for him, he's probably the greatest pure scoring forward we've ever had. He's averaging 31 a game this year. He's the second leading scorer in the league. And he can kind of float back and forth between 2017 Kevin Love and 2014 Kevin Durant. So when you see all three of those together, and then you have Joe Harris in the Kyle Korver role, basically, and then Jeff Green as the Richard Jefferson type fifth, it's basically Cavs 2017 2.0 with the biggest difference being the rant in the love spot.

And actually Harris is a better version of whatever shooter you're going to put in in that other spot. So when I think of that big picture, I don't think they can beat the Lakers in a playoff series when I just matched them up. I just feel like the Lakers have too much size. There's no answer for LeBron. Durant would have to play unbelievably on both ends of the floor. He would have to be the most important defensive player in the team. He would also have

to score 30. He would have to match everything LeBron did. I don't know what they do with Davis. That would have to be, I think, a buyout guy. I just don't think DeAndre Jordan at this point in his career is going to be able to handle him. You can't put Jeff Green on LeBron. That's going to be a disaster. They're going to have to figure out that piece. But the flip side, if you're the Nets, is you're just making it a weird series. You just have to win four games. Your goal would be, you have the one game, that's the Kyrie game. Like the one we saw tonight where he had 39, it was the Kyrie game. They beat the Clippers because of him. You have the one game, that's the Harding game when he puts up the 39, 14 and 17.

And you have the one game, that's the Durant game when he has 45.. And you have the one game that's the Durant game when he has 45. And then you have the one game when all three of them are awesome in the same game. A little like what we saw today where Durant was, Durant had 28 points.

He was 11 for 13 from the field. If he's going to start doing shit like that, I'm going to start raising the ceiling on this weird Nets team. But you think like, you just have to beat

the Lakers four times. It would be four types of games. Could they do it? I think it's not unrealistic. I still feel like Philly has the best chance. That's another team that probably needs to make one more move. But I think Philly has the best chance to just kind of go mano a mano from a power standpoint with the Lakers,

but the Nets have the best chance to have the weird series. A little like what the Heat tried to do against the Lakers last year, and I think could have maybe done it if Dragic had been healthy. So it was really thrilling to watch the Nets tonight. It's one of the weirdest collection of talent I think we've ever put together an NBA team. And there's so much offense, it's staggering. But it continues to be an absolute rollercoaster ride. And I look forward to changing my opinion on them another hundred times before we get to the playoffs.

Second piece I wanted to grab from tonight was just, I was watching Draymond Green tonight, wondering what the hell happened to him offensively. And I went on his basketball reference page, which was both a mistake because it, it just sent me in basically a tailspin for a half hour. And I was barely even watching the Celtics Warriors game. But also I was glad I did the Celtics warriors game. Um,

but also I was glad I did it. Like Draymond tonight was one for seven. He had two points, 11 rebounds and seven assists. He was the second best warrior in the four. If you look at that box score, you're like, wow, two points.

He had five turnovers. It was way weirder to watch in person because he is completely given up on himself as a scorer. Like even when he shoots, it's by accident. And if you look at his basketball reference, his three point percentage by year, um, going back to that awesome, uh, 2016 season or the, the, the 73 win season. He shot 38.8% that year. After that, 30.8, 30.1,

28.5, 27.9, 21.2. There was a baseball player the Red Sox used to have, Dave Stapleton. And his rookie year, I think, was his best batting average.

And then every year over the next eight years, it went down. And it was like the weirdest thing to look at in baseball reference. Draymond's basketball reference. I would put up there against that. 2016 in the regular season, he was 14 points, nine and a half rebounds, 7.4 assists, 49% shooting, 39% from three and a 70% free throw. The last three years, just if you combine the three years, and this doesn't include the stats tonight,

he's basically 7-7-7. He's shooting 27.5% from three and 41.4% field goal. 1.5 free throw attempts. And as you know, I always look at free throw attempts. Like in the 2016 season, he was 4.1 free throw attempts. Now he's won a game. He's basically Ben Wallace without the rebounding, except for he's their point forward and he's setting people up. And if you look at the advanced metrics for when he's on the floor and off, there are three points better when he's on the floor and there are three points worse when he's off the floor. I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm just confused. I don't understand how somebody

who was such a potent offensive player only five years ago, who's doesn't turn 31 until March. Um, and somebody who was even better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season. The playoffs in the last five years, which was 2015 through 2019. So he put 104 games in those five playoff seasons. He was 13, 10 rebounds, 7 assists, 44% field goal and 31% from three. But more importantly,

he would shoot, you know, he was in 2016, he was 36.5 percent from three. 2017, he was 41 percent from three. You know, when he was open, I felt like it was going in. When he's open now, I don't feel like it's going in. It's also weird that his playoff stats just in general, like his career playoff stats where he's basically 13, nine and six. And then if you go to his regular season playoff stats, he's, he's nine, seven and five. I can't think of another player who's that much better in the playoffs than in the regular season. And then there's some disturbing stats with him around the rim.

I don't feel like he was ever like an awesome finisher, but I think he was pretty good. And I think if you go back and you go through some of those 2016 games, you know, he was really athletic and he was finishing on breaks and stuff like that. My question is this, what happened? Because it's,

if you look at his basketball reference page, which I always feel like if you just do the glimpse, the blink test, and numbers start going down past a certain point. I think JJ Redick is right like this now. JJ was always in the 13 to 16 points a game range. This year he's at like seven. And if you go through the history of the league, when the stats dip like that, it usually doesn't come back. And I remember writing a whole piece about Jermaine O'Neal once when I think Toronto had traded for him. It was the second time he had moved. And they were like, ah, Jermaine O'Neal, he's a 2010 guy.

I'm like, is he? You know, there was, we had some data at this point that he might be settling into a different phase of his career, you know, and with the dream on thing, I guess my question, the reason I bring it up, because I do think it's going to be a storyline over these next few days is, is he settling into a different point of his career or is something just weird happening that might just be an aberration? Like look at, uh, Jermaine O'Neal. He was 24 a game in 2005, 20 game in 06, 19 a game in 07 and it dropped to 13.6 in 2008 in Indy. And then he went to Miami. He was still at 13 in Toronto. And it's just like sometimes that's what happens.

That's who you are. I don't know if this is who Draymond is. I don't know if this is a slump. I don't know if he psyched himself out offensively. But the weird thing is they really need his offense. So you can make the case, look, the reason he was so good in the mid-20 2010s was because he was surrounded by great players. Now that he's not surrounded by as good players, he's not good enough to kind of make up for it.

I don't believe that. I don't understand. He's shooting 34.9% this year. You know, he shot 49% in 2016. So whatever's going on, I think it's one of the weirder basketball subplots I can remember because I think after the 2019 season, I would have said Draymond's probably a Hall of Famer. He wasn't a Hall of Famer with the way his career was up to that point. I just would have said, all right, this guy's 29.

He's going to have four or five more really good years. And he's been on all these winning teams. He's been on all these big playoff games, Hall of Famer. I don't know now. The arrow, the way it's pointing down and the way his offense has completely fallen apart. So when we talk about like, oh man, that clay injury, the Warriors would have been a contender.

I think actually they would not have been a contender even if clay had been 100% healthy because I don't know how to process the Draymond dip because it's a legit dip. I don't think it's a Draymond from 2016. And I'm sorry, but the league's way better now. You're not going to actually contend for a title with clay Curry, Draymond and the other guys in this team. That's, that's a team that loses in round two if, if clay is a hundred percent. So the reason I bring this up is how Stein were talking last week about whether it would make sense for, for the Warriors to trade for Beal and Wiseman plus the Minnesota pick. I think they have to see what happens with

Draymond over the next six, seven weeks before they decide big picture what they want to do, because you can make the case. They're better off trying to figure out what they have with Wiseman and hoping they strike oil with that Minnesota pick. If you look at the West right now, Minnesota is pretty much guaranteed to be one of the three worst teams in the league. They're 5-15. The next two worst teams in the West are New Orleans is 7-12, Dallas at 8-13.

That's not going to last. OKC at 8-11. OKC, you figure, will trade some dudes and try to go backwards. In the East, Washington at 8 and 13. That's not going to last. OKC at 8 and 11. OKC, you figure we'll trade some dudes and try to go backwards. In the East, Washington's 4 and 13. They're going to try to keep winning. Detroit's 5 and 15. Orlando is a team I think will potentially stink, especially the injuries they've had. They're 8 and 13. But Minnesota is going to be a top three terrible team. That might not translate to Golden State getting their pick this year if they finish in the top three,

but they might end up getting the fourth pick or the fifth pick plus Wiseman. And I think I would rather go in the, like not a rebuild direction as much as a, just accumulate assets direction, because if clay coming off an Achilles and you also have Draymond, who's basically like this weird 2021 version of playmaking Ben Wallace, who doesn't rebound as much.

Doesn't shoot free throws. I don't get it. Can't understand it. I really can't. Last thing I had was the All-Star game. They were talking about, they're honing in on March 7th, I think in Orlando for the All-Star game. Who wants an All-Star game. They were talking about they're honing in on March 7th, I think in Orlando for the All-Star game. Who wants an All-Star game? I think this is the dumbest idea they've had in a

long time. And I don't understand why anybody's not speaking up about it. It is so incredibly risky to put all your best players on the same court when all the stuff we've seen from the last two months, I look, I'm not, I'm not the poor water on a guy. I'm not the, uh, we shouldn't have Christmas. I, I, I don't want to be that guy. I just don't understand the point of forging ahead with the all-star game, which is never even that great of a game. It's fine. We can miss it this year. It's a 72 game season. Let's keep our heads down and try to get to the playoffs without some sort of disaster of losing too many games and too many players getting scratched for different reasons. I don't care about an all-star game.

I'm more interested to see who makes the all-star game than I am to watch it. So I'm hoping they don't actually have the all-star game because I think that would be stupid. And, and they're really opening themselves up to something that could derail the next month of the season. It's not like COVID is going to be going away on March 7th, but I was like,

I was thinking about, it's too early to think about the all-star game and who should be in it. Um, definitively. But what I did want to do just quickly, I think some spots are locked in and I have 10 guys on the East that I think are locked in and I have nine guys in the West. So I think starters in the East, Giannis, Durant, and Embiid, James Harden, I guess we're just going to forget those five Houston games happened.

And by the way, he ignited the Ewing theory with Houston. I met with the Ewing theory committee the other day. We went through all the criteria, superstar, never won anything, team getting written off after he leaves and the team inexplicably playing better. It's the ultimate. We could see the Rockets in the Western finals. I wouldn't be shocked. They're the best Ewing theory candidate we've had in the NBA in a while, but I'm not going to hold that against him. He's still one of the best guards in the East. And I think it's hardened in Jalen and as the backcourt,

Jalen Brown's just been outstanding. I'm glad everybody's noticed that one. So, and then for the bench, I have these spots locked in Bam, Beal, Tatum, Sabonis,

Middleton. So that leaves two spots that we'll have to navigate over the next few weeks for the East bubble, which includes Trey Young, Tobias Harris, Malcolm Brogdon, Gordon Hayward, Drew Holiday, Kyrie, Ben Simmons, Fusevic, Randall, Zach Levine, Colin Sexton. I'm being nice by including the last few. So I have three spots open in the East. Then the West, I think it's Luka and Dame, LeBron Kawhi, LeBron Kawhi, Jokic, who's been, God, he's been unbelievable.

League Pass MVP for me, Jokic. So Luka, Dame, LeBron, Kawhi, Jokic. And then bench lockdown, I have Curry, Anthony Davis, Paul George, Rudy Gobert. I have three spots open. What's interesting about the West, not as talented as these this year. Well, partly because CJ McCollum and John Moran got injured.

CP3 not as good as it was last year. Mitchell, not quite there. You can make a case. Conley's just good as it was last year. Mitchell not quite there. You can make a case. Conley's just been better for them this year. I don't even know who I'd pick between those two. DeRozan has been shockingly effective, especially at the end of games. Christian Wood, SGA.

Maybe DeAndre Fox if he got hot the next couple weeks. And the way the Pelicans are playing, I can't include Brandon Ingram. It's a very guard-heavy conference. Anyway, I have nine spots locked in for the West and ten for the East. And I

think the rest of it shakes out over the next couple weeks. We'll see. It's a little too early to be talking about it, but it's fun to think who locks stuff in. Last thing, I just noticed, like, looking at the standing, because we're past the 20 game mark and Miami's at seven and 13 and Dallas is at eight and 13.

And you think, well, it's early. It's not really that early. Miami needs to go 29 and 23 the rest of the way just to go 500. And you know how it goes with the league. You have one hamstring pull, one COVID guy. It's really hard to make up this ground. You have to make the top six. If you're Miami, you don't want to be in the plan for any reason, under any circumstances. I think there's five

guaranteed playoff teams in the East Philly right now is 15 and six Brooklyn's 14 and nine Milwaukee is 12 and eight Indiana's 12 and9, Boston is 11-8 now. After that, that six spot's probably open. Atlanta's in there at 10-10. So Miami's only three games behind them. It's not like this is desperate. But you kind of want to start to get going pretty soon. Same thing for Toronto at 9-12.

It's fine. I don't want to be in the play-in tournament if I'm any of those teams. You know who I don't want to see in the play-in tournament? I'm any of those teams. You know who I don't want to see in a play-in tournament? Charlotte. I don't want to play Charlotte in the 7-10 game. If you watch Charlotte, Malik Mock, who I never gave up on, came in there and had like 38 points, but they have a lot of scoring and I would not want to see them in a play-in game.

And I think one of the reasons I love the play-in tournament, it gives this extra weight and fear to the regular season where there's real urgency before. It was just like, ah, we just got to get in. We just got to get an eight seed. We don't care who we play now. It's like, well, you know what I don't want is the nine seed where I have to win two games just to get in. And then if I get in, I have to play one of the best teams. I have to play their Philly or Brooklyn or Milwaukee. Um. I don't know if Miami can fuck around much longer is my point. Seven and 13, you got to get going pretty soon. Dallas is a different story because Miami had COVID injuries, all kinds of things. Dallas had the same kind of COVID injuries,

you know, the same kind of things, except for when you saw Miami's team back at full strength, it looked good. It looked like last year's Miami team. You saw Dallas at full strength, and I still had questions, even though they look better in those two Suns games. And I watched all of the second Suns game and a lot of the first one. Porzingis does not look the same.

He does not get to the free throw line the same way he used to, and he does not shoot threes the way he used to. And it just looks like he moves differently. So you have that. The Seth Curry Richardson trade, which I thought was a good trade. And Richardson's been terrible.

Now he missed a couple of games, but just in general, he hasn't been good. Richardson had one really good Miami season that if you look at his career stats, I'm worried that it was an outlier. And if you look really carefully at the one season he had, that was really good. He basically averaged 20 a game for the first two months and then tailed off and went into the 15 point a game after that. My question with him is maybe that's who he is. Maybe he's just a guy who's 14 points a game, doesn't shoot free throws, get to the line,

his three-point shot vacillates between 30%, 39%, depending on the week, and can't really create plays. I think they miss Seth Curry. I do. And I know he wasn't like a 40 minutes a game guy, but he kind of pushed him over the top from a three-point standpoint where you just felt like there were so many different threats on the floor. Luka has not shot the three very well. I don't

think he's played well by his standards so far. He's a guy that could go completely bonkers at any point for a two-week stretch. But it just doesn't feel like he has the same kind of spacing around him. And you watch the second Suns game. He created good shots for guys, and they just missed them down the stretch. They weren't missing those shots last year when they had the number one offense. So I am more dubious that Dallas can make up all this ground than Miami. I think Miami will get in there because you think like, you know, Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland, the Knicks, they'll jump those teams. I think Miami will get in there because you think like, you know, Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland, the Knicks, they'll jump those teams.

I think Miami will be fine ultimately. I don't think they can fuck around anymore. Dallas, I worry about. You got the Clips, Utah, Lakers, Denver. I think Phoenix is there. I think Portland will be there. Portland's resilient as we're going to cover with CJ in a second. You got Houston and Memphis as just wild cards because Ja still doesn't look healthy to me. They're getting Jaron Jackson back,

Justice Winslow back. San Antonio just doesn't go away. They're like one of those boxers. They're like when Julio Cesar Chavez fought 10 years past we ever thought he was going to fight. And I'm worried about Dallas. The other thing with them, I don't know what their moves are. What do you do? You have Hardaway as an expiring contract. You can't really trade your picks. What do you do?

How do you make the team better? You just got to cross your fingers that when Maxi Kleber is finally playing again, you have your full team. You can go on a run and Luka can get hot, but you don't know it. So the X factor with them is the Knicks have their unprotected pick as every Knicks fan knows and has talked about for the last two weeks. And the irony of if the house didn't make the playoffs and the Knicks could get like a top 10 pick from the Porzingis trade while Porzingis has really looked like crap. Um, that would be an

amazing turn of events. Cause I thought that trade was abominable. So there you go. All right. Enough babbling. We're going to take a break. When we come back, CJ McCollum. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way.

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Alright, we're taping this. It is 4 p.m. PT. A bunch of basketball games just started. CJ McCollum is here. He is injured, so he is going to be like me tonight, watching basketball at home. The last time you and I talked, Jalen Rose was there. We were doing the interview series for the 2013 NBA draft. We went to Chicago for the combine

and interviewed a whole bunch of people at the same time. I was all fired up because you were a Patriot League guy. As it turned out, you're the best part of the history of the Patriot League. But you were one of the people we liked. We were trying to get a vibe, who we were vibing with, and with you, it was like, there's something about that guy.

That guy had his shit together. I think that one has a chance. And I was all excited because you were a Patriot League guy. And now look at you all these years later. Yeah, it's crazy. I actually remember it. And I was all excited because you're a Patriot League guy. And now look at you all these years later. Yeah, it's crazy. I actually remember it. And every time I see Jalen, he kind of reminds me about, for one, I still remember some

of the questions you asked me. Well, we were asking you real questions about what are you going to do as an adult in the NBA, all that stuff. Yeah, I think Jalen was like, how are you going to handle being in Miami when you come from the Patriot League and Bethlehem has been so good. In terms of your game, how does your game translate and all of that stuff?

And I mean, I was always confident and sure of myself. But I think going to a small school and making it the way that I did, I was just really, really at a great space mentally. And I really understood what it takes to, to work hard and sustain like elite, elite levels of professionalism. Yeah. For me, I, and I think history bears it.

Cause I think the drafts on YouTube, I praise the pick when it happened, but to me, you made sense as an NBA player. It's like, I know what he is. He's a combo guard. Um,

he's going to be a good shooter. He's going to work his ass off. He's a good guy. Like he makes sense to me as an NBA player. Some of the guys, I mean, that ended up being one of the most famous drafts, I would say the last 30 years. The biggest prize in the draft, Giannis goes, I think 15th. And when he got taken, I think I liked the pick, but we were like, we don't know.

We were watching the video of him. We had no idea. He was six foot nine. He was 200 and whatever pounds. And we didn't know he was going to turn into this 7' behemoth. Did you even know him heading into that draft? I only knew Giannis because my brother's been overseas for

10 years. Now this is my brother's 11th year abroad. So my brother actually played in the Greek League. He started off in Israel and played in the Greek League for a little bit. He played for Pannonis and another team. And he actually played against Giannis. Giannis was in the second played in the Greek League for a little bit. He played for Panyonis and another team, and he actually played against Giannis. Giannis was in second division Greece.

Giannis wasn't very good at the time. He was taller. He was, you know, huge, huge potential. But as the saying goes, he was a year away from being a year away. Like he wasn't great. And I don't think anybody's seen this. My brother, he said that he had potential to be good,

but he didn't see it either. The only, the player that I knew was going to be good was Luka. My brother played against Luka and was like, he's going to average 15 to 20 his rookie year because of his pace and understanding. But Giannis didn't have skills. So it was hard to say, like, is he an athlete? He's not that explosive. He's just really long. And then he kind of grew into what he is now.

So no one, I didn't see it. I was confused at the pick because he played in second division Greece and averaged seven points a game. I remember we thought Dennis Schroeder was going to be the first foreign guy. And then Giannis was going to be the second one. And it was right around the range when those guys should go.

So none of us were like, wow, that's crazy. But it was just so funny watching the YouTube clips of him. And then you had like the Patriot League bias. Everybody in that draft had some sort of bias, right? Anthony Bennett, it's like, well, what is he? Is he a small forward? Is he a power forward?

You had the whole, he's playing in the freaking Patriot League. How is that going to translate? Kelly Olenek was another one, right? It was like, eh, Gonzaga, who knows? And each guy you could kind of pick apart, but that turned out to be a really good draft. Oladipo was in there. There was a lot

of guys who made it. Yeah, and at the time, they were talking about how weak our draft is and they say that every year and I'm like, you can't judge a draft in its first three to five years. You got to give it time for the best players to kind of rise to the top and I think, looking at the overall body of work from our draft, you got Oladipo,

you got myself, you got Max, who's starting to play from our draft, you got Oladipo, you got myself, you got Max, who's starting to play better. Obviously, you got Giannis. We have a good variety. Steven Adams, you have a good variety of solid players. I think Rudy might have been in my draft as well. You got a good amount of solid players who've made a lot of money,

who've established themselves as NBA players. But then there's also guys who've been in and out of the league. And there's a lot of guys who got drafted in my draft that are playing against my brother in Europe right now. So I've kind of seen the turnover, how fast it is by year five. By that second deal, 20, 30 guys are out of the league already. So you get drafted. Dame's already there because Brooklyn only did a top three protected pick when they traded for Gerald Wallace.

So Portland, they steal Dame. Then they get you a year later. And now you guys are still together seven years later, which in this modern NBA, to have two-star teammates play together for four years is like a miracle. You guys are on year eight. It's like you two and Clay and Steph, and that's it. Everyone else just is like 2K.

Yeah, it's a credit to our organization for trusting in us, allowing us to kind of grow together. It didn't start off great. I didn't start off playing. I started off injured.

Wesley Matthews was there. Mo Williams. I was basically like third string shooting guard, third string point guard. So I had to kind of work my way up. But Neil was patient. I think Terry was patient. They did a great point guard. So I had to kind of work my way up. But Neil was patient.

I think Terry was patient. They did a great job developing us and allowing us to kind of figure it out. I think that's the thing you have to do a lot of times when you've got two guys who like to have the ball in their hands. I think Boston's figuring it out. Two guys who are really good on the ball, both can play off the ball, but are selfless enough to let the other person go. Like some nice Jalen Brown might have 35,

and that's okay with Jason. He's not trying to take his shine. You know what I'm saying? I think our relationship is similar to that. And of the trials and tribulations we've gone through, you know, losing playoff games, getting swept, winning some playoff games, hitting game winners. Like we've done a lot of everything to where we're comfortable

in our own skin. We just go work hard, show up and do our job and let the chips fall where they may. And it's been, I think a more successful run than maybe people realize. Cause you're in the same conference with golden state. And then you have Houston who was basically the third best team there for three, four or five years,

whatever it was. They never even made the finals. The West is stacked anyway, but you guys made a conference finals. You guys had, I would say the rock bottom was probably that new Orleans series when they just demolished you. And then it's like, well, what is this? They got to trade. Then you have guys like,

I thought you were mad at me because every time I always make up trades, I always have to throw you in a trade. And then you said something bad. I was like, ah, I got to cool it on the CJ trades. I'm making a mad. This is the first year where you didn't put me in like a Kevin Love or Aaron Gordon trade. You try to get me traded every year, like literally. And I guess it's, I always tell people, it's a gift and a curse because it's one thing

for people to want you traded, but it's another thing for you to have value. Like if some people can't be traded, they got terrible contracts. Nobody wants them. And in my case, I have a unique talent that is wanted by the masses, I suppose. Well, I mean, first of all, it's fun to make up fake trades.

I did a podcast on Thursday where I made up 11 Bradley Beal trades over the course of a half hour with 11 teams. I think with you guys, the question was always, how do these guys coexist? Do you need two awesome scoring guards on the same team? And yet over and over again, you've been successful. And then this year, you even seem like you went up.

You're already really good, but it did seem like you went up a half notch. Why did you go up a half notch? What happened? What did you add? Or was it just a hot streak? What was it? Something seems slightly different.

No, it wasn't a hot streak because I worked at the things that were translating. So shooting more threes, shooting more threes off the bounce, playmaking, understanding when to get mine versus when to get other people involved. Trying to get D off the ball more like being like cognizant of those things. Having been, having been in the NBA for seven, this is my eighth year. I haven't played alongside D as a starter for six years, but this being the sixth year, you kind of figure things out and you work at certain stuff, working smarter, not, not necessarily just harder.

And then taking care of my body, understanding the quick turnaround of the season, and then understanding that 62-game season, COVID year, my focus had to change. There's less distractions. You don't have to worry about tickets. You don't have to worry about anything. I got married this summer, so my life is pretty stable and solid. Did you check with Jalen on that, about getting married? I've been with this,

my now doctor wife. She's a doctor. Since college. So it's not like, my life is kind of in how I wanted it to be forever. Like in terms of boxes, this is what I want to accomplish.

Like I'm just checking them off down the road. So this was the year where I really just got to focus on me, focus on my body, hire what I needed to hire. And it's unfortunate I ended up getting injured on the layup. But I definitely was I've taken my game to another level and I'll consistently be able to do that until I retire because I know what it takes now.

I know what type of work it takes, the type of mindset, how I played to start the season is how I typically would play in the playoffs. Like that same type of intensity, that same focus, not taking position possessions off as we typically do in regular season i want to really get off to a great start not just for myself individually but for our team because of what was at stake for this year and then like you talked about i am in trades every year so there's only you know what i mean like it's twofold like you don't want to be traded i'm happy here i enjoy my role i enjoy the city you hear my dog barking like i'm in a great spot. But it's also like, you're capable of this, so why not just go do it and challenge yourself

and do it for a whole season as opposed to in spurts or as opposed to just the playoffs? I think the way you laid that out was really interesting because it's like the second to last piece, right? When somebody gets over that hump, like, I just have to be this guy every night. Now it's not cool to be at twice a week. Um, you know, six times a month, I just night after night, after night, this is who I have to be. And then the final, final level, I think is

the level LeBron's at where he could literally take a quarter off and you, and he's the only person who knows, you know, like he can pick his spots, but you don't know he's picking his spots. Cause he's got a 31, nine and nine. And he's just scored the last seven points of the game, but that you're, so you're,

you've basically in the video game, you're the second to last level now, I would say. Yeah. I mean, definitely not in like that LeBron mode is different. You know what I mean? That's unique.

Only a few guys can do that. You watch the switch. Even when he gets mad, like 18 years later, the switch still can turn on. He can pretend someone said something about his mom. You know what I mean? That's the switch where there's no fans. You need something to get you going.

Bingo. There it is. Did you see the Cleveland game when he got mad because he thought somebody said something and that was it? not too much and he goes and scores 20 to fourth and that's a game where he might have just went got four or five assists played through ad no he was aggressive he started shooting threes and i think how i'm approaching this now is just like it's it's nothing personal but it's i've averaged 20 points per game you know since i've been a starter like i can do that i can get out of the bed and get 20.

Now I need to be able to go some nights it's 30, some nights it's eight assists, some nights it's 10 assists. I need to be getting five rebounds. Defensively, I need to be in the right spots. I need to be able to call certain plays when we need plays. Like, coach, let's run this. I'm calling this play. I need to get D off the ball, figure out how to get nerd touches.

I think it's just understanding the game more. I'm almost 30 years old now. The maturity level shifts. You understand what needs to be done to win. And I know how to score points efficiently, make my teammates better, still win games and look good doing it where it's like, oh, this is different.

He's playing different because my impact is a ball. Like I was impacting the game. Now I'm really going to impact the game in every facet. Well, the other thing that happened, you're in Harden trade rumors. You kept your streak alive of every year in trade rumors, but this time we knew Harden was going to get traded. Then you

end up playing against them and you guys have this awesome game. It seemed like there was some shit talking at one point, but you were lighting it up and it was, listen, I'm just a dude sitting on my couch here in LA watching basketball every night. My takeaway from that game was like, CJ is like, don't fucking trade me. We have something really good here. I don't know. Maybe I read too much

into it. What was, what do you remember about that game now? No, I mean, I had been playing well before that game. That's the thing. Like I was hitting five threes a night before I hit nine threes that night. So I was, I was in in a great rhythm i had worked so that you hear the noise like people call me like yo you're getting traded i'm like i don't think so but like you never know in this business it's like i do my job i get i get up i get my shots the covid situation has affected us practicing but i can still work out on game days yeah i still go in i get my working in the morning and i feel good going into the game i see see my PT, like I feel great. So I wasn't really thinking about like, oh, I got to prove who I am against Harden. James is a great player. I'm not James Harden. The way I play is completely

different. He's unique in that way. Only he can do a lot of what he does. Like I'm not going to ever try to go be that. I'm just going to be the best version of myself. And I think- But you can match it on the right night. Yeah. And it wasn't even like me proving who I am. Like, if you watch hoop, you know I'm nice. It's just a matter of like,

you go play against the best, you need to bring your, you need to put your best foot forward. Or instead of me having 40, him having 40, I can't, I can't go guard this guy. He put up a 40-point triple-double

and I'm a two-guard and I'm supposed to be an elite two-guard. So I need to be able to match that. And that's how I approach. You got to match up. You need to go out there and be ready to hoop. And that's how I am. And I think I rise to the occasion when I'm playing as Clay, when I'm playing as Brad, those guys, they're elite and they're supposed to bring out the best in you and you're supposed to bring out the best in them. And I think that's

more so what it was about. Like if you get traded for James Harden, like you got, you got traded for arguably the best two guard in the NBA. Like that's impressive. A lot. That's saying he's really good. That's also saying like, you're pretty good too. Yeah.

To work out. You know, you mentioned knowing, like having to be good every night and how that's one of the final phases. I think one of the things that's really helped you and Dame too, all the playoff games you guys have been in because I've been watching that with the Celtics.

I wasn't surprised at all by Jalen this year. I've been riding for Jalen since when he was in the Kawhi trade rumors and be like, hey, if you look at his stats

first two years compared to Paul George, like he's kind of on the same track as Paul George was. I don't know about, I don't know if I'd want to give this guy up, but he played in so many playoff games in 17, 18,

then last year that after a while, you just kind of get it. Did you feel like that happened for you and Dame and some of the others on Portland, with just like the amount of the volume of the playoff games? Yeah, I think you learn how to play great basketball by playing against great teams. And it's the moments, obviously. Playing in the playoffs gives you that confidence.

I've never been shy away from the moment. Those are the times where I rise to the occasion. I played my best basketball since high school. So I love those opportunities, those moments. But I think it empowers your teammates. But you lose to a team like the Warriors, the way they were playing at that time, it was just beautiful to watch. It was fun. Everybody was interactive. They were engaged. The bench was in it. Extra pass, extra pass.

They get KD to buy in. KD's playing a different type of basketball. And it just looks so fun. And then you go play against them, and it's hard to stop them. It's hard for you to score. And they're doing it while having fun. I think that kind of changes your mentality of, all right, there's a way to do this. You got to work extremely hard, but you can enjoy your job, play well, rise to the occasion every night and then just go home like nothing happened. And I think we've gotten to that point to where no matter what happens

throughout the season, we figure out a way to get in the playoffs and we make it entertaining and we've lost to the warriors we've lost we got swept once that's the words like three times right yeah three years in a row and they won the championship every year except for i think one year the calves won it we lost to the lakers they beat everybody else basically 4-1 and now here we are again coming off of winning on the road in the game seven to go to the conference finals, to being swept. But we've seen it all.

So it's like... You left out the quadruple... What was it? Quadruple overtime? What was the Denver game? Was that three overtimes or four? I can't even remember. It was four.

Yeah, it was four. So we've done all there is to doing this game but win a championship. In terms of the lowest of lows, we've had them. We've been swept. We've done everything besides not make the playoffs. Like on the bad side. And then on the good side, you get there and then you lose to the team that wins it all.

So it's like you're close, not as close as you want to be, but you understand that small window. I was just on Sheed and Bonzi's podcast and I was asking them about the 2000 teams and what was the difference between them and the teams that won it all. And obviously Sheed having won it all, he was like, what was the difference between them and the teams that like win it all? And obviously she'd haven't won it all. He was like, it's the role players. He was like, your role players have to be comfortable. You have to empower them and you have to be able to get the best out of them. And that's the difference. He was like, the stars are stars. Every team that's going to win it all has a Jimmy Butler or a AD or a Brian or Steph, but it's the Igalas who are going to separate you.

It's the Marcus Smarts, who Marcus is a really good player, but he's the X factor. He's the guy who shifts the game. It's that guy you need in your team, or that group of guys who helps you win championships. So that's me thinking ahead, how do we do this? It's not just me and Dame. We can go score 60.

But what are we doing to help impact the game and what are our teammates doing? Yeah, the 08 Celtics were like that. They ended up winning the title because of Posey and House and PJ Brown.

Because basically, when you get to a certain level of the playoffs, every team's going to have three really good guys, you know? And then it's the four through nine guys.

That's why it's been so interesting to watch Milwaukee this year. Because they've really, you know, and then it's, it's the four through nine guys. That's why it's been so interesting to watch Milwaukee this year because they've really, you know, they, after their top three, their bench has completely changed, you know, and different guys in different roles and just wondering how that's going to shape out. The Celtics are going through that too. You mentioned, um, Jalen and Tatum before who've been together now for a few years. And it does remind me a little of you and Dame where it's not like a dueling banjos thing. It's not like I shot this time. So you, you shoot this time. There's, there's a flow with how they do it. And they really pull for each other and they're really close.

And like, I was going nuts when there was for one day, there was a rumor about a hardened trade and Jalen would have had to be. And I was like, I don't, I just want to root for these two guys. Can I just, can I, I was the opposite of what I was throwing you in trade rumors every year. I was like, can I just have these two guys for the decade? I don't really care who else is around them. I like these two, you and Dame. It seems like you've reached that point where it's like, as a combo,

I think you're going to be remembered for this generation as one of the combos, right? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's the storytelling behind it. Small schools, foot fractures. I'm the first person to ever draft from Lehigh. I think he's the first from Weber. He gets his jersey retired while he's still playing. I get my jersey retired at Lehigh. We come together. We play well. We're undersized. We're this, we're that. And, you know, eight years later, you know, seven straight years in the playoffs,

obviously he'll go down probably as the best trailblazer ever. I'll go down as one of the best trailblazers ever. Hopefully we can win a championship. But, like, looking at what we've been able to accomplish, I think it's inspiring for people because it's two guys who have similar games, aren't jealous of each other. friends actually genuinely get along it's not forced there's never rumors about like cj this or cj that or dang this or dang that like you just know you don't have to fake the funk like it is what it is and we want the best for each other he wants me to be the best version of myself if i can

go get 40 he's telling me go get 40 if he's about me to go get 40. If he's about to get 50, I'm like, bro, you're about to get 50. Like, go ahead. Like, stop calling plays for me. You know what I mean? Like, ride the wave of how hot you are. And I think that kind of shows where we're at and how we were raised. It's like, I've never been a hater in my life. Like, if I never accomplished individual accolades, like, I'm okay with that because I signed up for a team sport.

I get paid extremely well. And I do my job every night regardless of circumstances. And I think we've gotten to that point early on in our career where it's like, there's enough out there for everybody. Let's figure out how to eat together. Well, and you're both pros. And I mean pros by like, if you go to a game,

you guys are pros. You're just, you're there to do a job. You do it. There's a seriousness to it that you can sense. Whereas like some other guys, especially younger guys, there's a focus with the Portland team. And that's why it's been so interesting to watch the,

the supporting cast. It keeps changing, evolving. This guy get hurts. You guys have terrible luck. I don't know what's going on with, uh, with all the injuries over there.

Even you go back to two years ago, like Cantor playing with one arm and little stuff like that. It just seems like you guys can never get healthy. Last year, Dame got bounced for a little while. You had to scramble back just to make the playoffs. But injury luck is such a big piece of this. And I don't know when you guys are going to get the injury luck thing figured out. The availability is huge. We prided on like being on the court and staying healthy and

freak accident comes nerd breaks his hand swiping for a ball zach gets hurt and then it's just like the banjo is playing again it's another season where we're on the scramble where we we could looking at our schedule who we've played thus far like looking at our record where we're at it's like if i could have just stayed healthy, where would we be at? If NERC could have stayed healthy, Oh my goodness. But it's just like, if one of us could have just been out there alongside Dane, it would have made a huge difference.

But I think it just builds character, man. It allows the younger players to get a chance to play. Right. I think my career was started on a Wesley, Wesley Matthews, Achilles tear Achilles. I still don't play much because we traded for Aaron Afalo. Aaron tears his rotator cuff, so they have to play me. So I think a lot of these situations

is unfortunate, but me getting hurt gives Anthony Simons more money. Probably more money, too. More minutes. Gary Trent, probably more money and more minutes. Nas is starting to play. He's towards 30 last night. So it shifts your team. It gives people another opportunity to kind of step to the occasion.

So then when we all come back, they should be more comfortable in expanded roles. And we went through this. We went to the conference finals. I end up tearing my pop lydia's going up for a layup guy, guy Jacob, Jacob Poto or whatever his name is, like catches my leg and I'm out for three weeks.

And we end up coming back and making a run without Nurk. And then Ennis is playing with one arm. So we gain depth and then we hopefully Rodney finds a rhythm. Those guys can find this rhythm during this time, this month or whatever it is. So that when we come back, we're in a different spot. And then role players are ready to really impact meaningful games. What's the feeling of fall? It's finally catching the sunrise. And not because you woke up early. No, you woke up nice and late. And you know what? The sun waited. Then you went and got what you loved from Starbucks, the new pecan crunch oat latte and new baked apple croissant. And enjoy that warm apple filling and those nutty flavors with rich brown

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And still get groceries. Shop now at pcexpress.ca. So you're a student of all this shit. The dirty CJ McCollum secret is you easily would have just been a media guy if you weren't a basketball player. You'd be working for like the athletic covering like the Utah Jazz right now or something. You were in college. And I remember we talked about that, that first

time, like you, you were like, I want to work for Grantland someday. Uh, I want to, I want to be right or do pot. And now you actually have a podcast. Now you're in this world and there's so many stars and role players or whatever, who also like characters either they're a character on their instagram they have a podcast um they have youtube stuff whatever how have you navigated that side of it because i know you're so fascinated by it it's been fun man and i always joke with people for a while i was known more for my journalism and broadcasting than i was for being an nba player because i got hurt early yeah I was doing Series XM, Rookie Diary. I had a gig with iHeartRadio

or I had a daily talk show. And then I had a Jammy 107.5 playlist where I'm making playlists. I'm on the radio every day on Portland's number one state of hip-hop and throwbacks. So I was doing all of that stuff early on in my career. And then I kind of phased into writing, writing for the

Players' Tribune, doing that type of stuff, covering stories, talkingased into writing, writing for the Players' Tribune, doing that type of stuff, covering stories, talking about the league, writing for Sports Illustrated for kids and writing for Maxim, Vogue, whatever, you name a magazine, I was writing for them. And then I transitioned again from there to continue to try to expand on my journalism degree to, like you said before, doing podcasting.

I invested in the Players' TV and signed an agreement to do Remaking America, which takes me to a whole new level of life outside of sports. Discussing different events, things that are going on in this world and how we can kind of help shift and essentially remake America. Make it different than the new way we're used to and kind of make it better while highlighting certain areas of concern. Whether that's police brutality, whether that's police reform, education reform, voting, things of that nature to kind of highlight some of the issues we have in America. So I've evolved as a man. I've evolved as a basketball player. And I just like telling stories. I like sharing information with people.

And I think being able to kind of connect on that side, as you talked about, people know me because they watch the TV. Right. but a lot of people stop me when i'm in new york city and say like hey i listen to the pull-up podcast which is cool to me it's like it's almost like being a rapper right and somebody like knowing your lyrics you know because people listen to listen to you yeah it's kind of flattering it's like wow you really take the time out of your day to listen to like me talk about sports and share wine and tell stories and it's just really cool that we can connect on that type of level with the masses i think it's just a unique opportunity and shows where the world is at today um so i listen to two three four podcasts a day do you um do you feel like there should be more of a buffer between the players and communicating with the public than there is right now? Because I was thinking of it.

We're taping this on a Thursday or on Tuesday. When LeBron had that thing with the courtside lady, the courtside Karen yesterday and all that stuff, and they're going back and forth. And I'm almost thinking like, this is just crazy that this lady thinks she can start yelling at LeBron in this way and take her mask off and all this stuff. And it almost, I started thinking about big picture. It's like, people feel like they know the players in this way. Like they can just talk to them like that. When I was growing up, going to the Boston garden, you, there was this clear delineation between the fans and the players. You yelled insults, you heckled, stuff like that. But now it's almost like she felt like she should be interacting with LeBron. And I was like, where are we going with this stuff?

People feel like these players are in their lives and they're friends. I don't know. I just thought it was really weird. Yeah. I mean, I think some people cross the line. There's certain things that can be said in this situation. I don't know what happened. I've read the articles. I thought it was pretty funny. I think in certain circumstances and instances, people cross the line. They feel like since they paid for their entrance into the arena, they can do, say, express however they want. And

that's true to a certain extent. But then there comes a time where we've seen in Utah, we've seen where certain things are being said that shouldn't be said. Maybe you're talking about somebody's family, maybe you're talking about somebody's racist, derogatory, racist remarks, or you're getting too close. We had an instance where IT, I think when he was in Boston, he had to walk up on a fan because the fan was talking so crazy to where it's like, look, this is me doing my job. You know what I'm saying? You have a right to cheer for your team. You can say what you want, but keep it respectful. Because if not, I'm still a man at the end of the day.

Like, I got a wife. Talk about my wife, we're going to have a problem. I got a mother. I have these things to where this job is great and I love it, but, like, I'm protecting them over anything, any means necessary. And I think people forget that like these guys lebron is six eight six nine two seventy two eighty seven percent body fat on a bad day this isn't a normal man you could just you think you're just gonna beat up like if you see him in the street like are you talking to dwight howard

like this reckless when you see dwight how Howard walking down the street, you know what I'm saying? The switch has to go on for people because you could really get hurt. Like, Ron Artest is not the only one that would do something like that in this league. And I think people need to understand that. Like, there's a point in which you cross the line. Like, don't cross the line because if you cross the wrong person, like a James Johnson, someone who's trained to really fight and they catch you outside of this arena, you're going to have a real issue. Is James the number one

don't fuck with that guy guy in the league right now? I feel like he is. He's top five and he ain't five, four, or three. Who else do you have? Who do you have

in the finals against him? I mean, he's like the one who's a quiet calm. So, like, you know what time it is when he's quiet calm.

He doesn't start stuff even though he's capable of finishing it. Stackhouse is like quiet calm. So like, you know what time it is when he's quiet calm. He doesn't start stuff even though he's capable of finishing it. Stackhouse is like that too. Yeah. That's like Stackhouse mold. And I think he's like 20. No, like James Johnson has professional fights under his belt.

It's not like a story of people just saying like he can fight. It's like, no, he's actually been knocking people out for real, like in real fights. I feel like that's one of the reasons the Mavs got him. Because remember, one of the Morris brothers was messing with Luka last year.

All of a sudden now James Johnson's on the team like, yeah, we're going to keep James. Don't mess with Luka anymore. But there's a lot of guys, like they ain't boxers a lot. Like I box. So it's one thing for you to like fake like you can fight. It's another thing for you to really know how to fight and then you to actually be boxing too. There's a lot of guys who do stuff like this and people don't know.

Some of these people are really... They can really get interactive with you however you want if you want to do that. You playing with Carmelo now for how many years? Two years now, basically? Basically. Yeah, 24 months. COVID's been a year and a year and some change.

Pre-COVID and post-COVID. What's the biggest surprise for you being around Carmelo every day? Because obviously you grew up, you're going in

the 2013 draft. That was when he was at his height. He's one of the best scoring forwards the last 25 years and now you're on the team with him.

I think how down to earth he is. Like, I've known him from afar. We work out together in new york a lot both work with brick um we played in pickups i've recruited him so like i've known him but to be somebody's teammate like you know i'm on a different level it's like a it's more than a co-worker because you travel with him yeah room with him we go in the steam room every day. We drink wine most nights. So I get to know him on a different level. But just how down-to-earth he is, man. He works hard.

He works on his game. He takes good care of his body. He's at that point to where he's 18 years in. He could throw in the towel if he wants. He has enough money. But he still has that passion, that love for the game. He'll play one-on-one with the rookies. You know what I mean?

Like, he just loves to boot. And I think from the outside looking in, you hear about Melo, you hear about, like, his time in New York, you see the game winners, you see the 62 points. Like, you just think of him at, like, to that light, and it's like, no, he's just a really good dude. Like, down to earth, watches his son's AAU games on his phone. Like, he watches his team on his iPad.

Like, he's constantly connected to the youth, trying to make them better while still being a walking legend. Yeah, it was weird how he just got kicked to the curb. I never understood it. And then there was this whole thing with him where then it was like, no, he was never that good to begin with. I was like, what are you guys talking about? He was, I think, number two for MVP in 2013 or two or three. I think I voted for him second, but it's sometimes things swing too far one way or the other. Cause this happened with TMAC too. Um, certain guys, I didn't feel like I'm not the hugest Dwight Howard fan, but Dwight Howard is the best center in the league for like seven years. You can't take it away from

him, but it is funny how shit swings back and forth. You could feel it happening with Dame a little bit sometimes, right? Where there's always this thing with Dame, like, ah, well, he could never carry a team to the finals. It's like, Dame's really good. Like, what are you talking about? So, I don't know. It's weird, man. I always say

comparisons to Thief of Joy, they always try to compare everybody. Like, Melo in his own right compared against anybody is a Hall of Famer who's done a lot of things no one else can do. Since he came in with Bron, Bron is the one they want to compare. There's only one LeBron James,

right? There probably will never be another version of him. So, like, everybody's trying to, like... So now for Dane, you got Steph, right? You got Dane, who's arguably one of the best point guards to ever play. One the guys who's revolutionized the game and you got steph who shifted the game completely no back-to-back mvps unanimous all that stuff we play against them all the time we're in the west coast so it's always this can he do this can he do that well such and such did this such such that it's like everybody's situation is different just let them be great in their own right appreciate their

greatness compare them when they retire you know let them finish their whole body of work and then maybe go back and look at it and say well he did this he did this but yeah it's it's a what have you done for me lately league and everyone is is quick to say he's the next thing and everyone's quick to say he's done and it's like well he to say he's done. And it's like, well, he's not the next thing yet and he's not done yet. So I kind of wait it out and let people develop into who they are. I think that's it.

This is my biggest weakness with my podcast is I overreact sometimes. We did a podcast Thursday and House and I were talking about how Washington had to trade Beal because it looked like Westbrook was breaking down physically, was the same guy. And then Sunday night, Westbrook has like 41, 13 and 12 against Brooklyn. And we're like, Oh my God, this guy looked done three days ago. Now he, now he looks fine. Now I feel like an idiot, but yeah, I think it's, it's part of the problem is just the way the basketball cycle

is now where like today, what's wrong with Dallas, What's wrong with Dallas? And it's just like you move on to these touchpoint questions. People like me have to lead their podcasts with it sometimes. And then sometimes it's, hey, it's time to figure out where CJ McCollum should get traded. Top five CJ McCollum trades. I might just do it every, maybe I'll just pick a day where I do every year. I just make up five trades just so it's a running joke like a holiday. Be careful, man, because when y'all put me in the jerseys, my mom thinks I'm really getting

traded because they'll spot me. And then she's calling me. I'm like, Mom, I didn't go in serious. I'll get a call when it's serious. I don't think it's serious yet. Relax. You guys are scaring people. People that are using social media, they see me in a Rockies uniform

or they see... I'm from Ohio, so my dad reads the paper every day. And then I'll be in the front of the paper and it'll be like, Kevin Love, this guy, this guy, Drummond, McCollum. And my dad has to read the repository,

so they got to stop doing this to me. Well, you know what the problem is? Especially in a podcast, it's long form. You're presenting all the nuances with whatever you're talking about, right? You're not just being like, you're actually having a conversation about it. And then when it gets aggregated, it's just like the nuts and bolts of they grab it quick, this one piece, and you kind of lose some of the nuance, which sucks, which is what I'm about to do with you with this question. Now that enough time has passed,

you're kind of psyched that the Warriors, the KD thing blew up in Golden State now. Like as a Western Conference competitor, it's nice that he only passed through there three years and then he left. Because if he was still on that team and they had just figured out how to keep, I mean, I think that goes, I don't know for how many years.

It was, as a competitor, you have to be pleased that he's no longer there. Yeah, I mean, I didn't want him to go there in the first place. And I told him that and people made a big deal about it. And that's just- Yeah, that was a good podcast moment.

It was pretty hilarious. And that was just my opinion. I'm not him. I'm not them. I can't really speak on that. But when someone asks me about how I feel, I can say, I wouldn't do this or I wouldn't do that. But we're also never in that position to have to make a decision.

But, I mean, he seemed like he got what he wanted out of it. He was able to play on that stage. He hit some big shots. If he doesn't get hurt again, they win that championship too. I believe they come back. And then he either decides to leave or he decides to stay. But I think for him, they win that championship too. I believe they come back and then he either decides to leave or he decides to stay. But I think for him,

I'm happy for him. It sucked for us because we had to play against them and they wasted one of our years. But I think what he was able to accomplish was great for him. Is the rest of the NBA probably happy? Yes.

But I mean, what they have in Jersey or Brooklyn now, it could be something really special. So maybe they'll do something similar to the Eastern Conference teams and they'll steal jaw and beats thunder. They'll steal your Celtics thunder and they'll take away some conference championships from Giannis. But I think for me, I'm at that stage where I don't worry about none of that stuff, man. If guys want to make themselves happy and play with each other, that's fine. I just want to prepare

and bring the best version of myself forward. I just want to be the best me every night, leave everything I got out there, and then when I retire, I walk away saying I did all I could. Brooklyn's going to do something special. They're going to give up the first game where two guards score 60 points on the same team against them. It's going to be you and Dame.

I think they could give up double 60-point games. Have you seen their defense so far? It's a catastrophe. I love watching them play. I'm a league pass junkie, but watching him, Kyrie. James sat out the other night. I was mad James sat out.

I was like, bro, I need to see, I need to see like everybody playing together. But they do give up a lot of points. Well, what's fascinating about it is crunch time. They're basically playing KD at center and they're playing Jeff Green at the four. And then they, you know, going a little smaller and Kyrie and Harden

and whoever the swing guy is. And it's like, I'm watching it going, I'm pretty sure KD didn't come up with this whole master plan. So he was going to be the crunch time center. This, this isn't. So I, I'm,

I know they'll end up getting a buyout guy or something like that, but it's like an old school 1980s team. Nobody's going to be able to stop them. I'm not sure they're going to be able to get stops either. And as you know, like the finals always comes down to who can get the stops. That was the reason the Lakers won last year. You felt it firsthand.

Their defense, when they ratcheted it up, was really special. And that's why they won. And they got a 4-5 that can guard 1-5, which is very – like, AD can guard everything. And he can trap. And then their role, guys, when you got Caldwell-Polk shooting 47 from three, you got Kuz hitting threes. You got Caruso playing hard, hitting threes, making the right decisions.

Like, they're a hard team to beat. And I think Brooklyn's going to make a move. Like, JaVale McGee, they're going to go after somebody. There's a lot of rumors out there. I'm sure you're coming up with some trade ideas on who they should get. But they're going to need somebody at some point. But it's not going to really shift the landscape. It's just going to help their rotations

a little bit better to where, like you said. But they had the guy, though. They had to trade him to get the guy. But my thing is, did they, though? They're throwing seven picks, and then they trade Jared Allen. They get this non-lottery pick that is a Milwaukee pick

that'll be whatever. And it's like, really? Like, give them three million bucks. Give them more future picks. I don't know.

I would not have traded Jared Allen. Yeah, Jared Allen is a great player. He's going to make a lot of money soon. But I think they probably just wanted to get off that contract

because they felt like, look at their books. KD's going to be up soon. Kyrie's going to be up soon. Well, they got rid of wanted to get off that contract. They felt like, look at their books. KD's going to be up soon. Kyrie's going to be up soon. Well, they got rid of Prince's contract in that trade, which I think maybe that was a piece of it. They should have swapped and got JaVale McGee when they gave up Allen. I would have tried to get another player in return. They must have something up their sleeve.

I can't imagine KD at crunch time as the five is going to be the solution for them for four straight playoff rounds. KD guard, Embiid? Yes. I don't see it. Well, that's the other thing. And this is, I've been thinking about a lot with the Celtics. If Embiid is going to, if this is just who he's going to be this season,

this is a whole different monkey wrench that I was not expecting. And if he plays like this, this is going to mess up the Celtics championship window. Which was already messed up. But yeah, you know Embiid. Embiid would give you a good quarter and a half, but he wasn't playing all four quarters at a certain

level. And now it seems like he can actually play all four quarters. Is it Doc? Is it Doc? Is it the offense? I honestly just think he showed up in better shape. I think he was embarrassed by the bubble last year and all that stuff. Probably had enough time to do all that. So you're watching all these league passes.

Is it actually weirdly beneficial to have three weeks off during a season where you can watch games and scout teams and stuff? So much basketball. My wife is like, are you watching games again? It's like phone, laptop, TV, all of it's muted, random. Like I might have one thing on. I just love it so much just seeing there's so much talent. There's so many great players out there who I enjoy watching.

Like I talked to Vic the other day, Vic's in Houston now. Like there's so much movement to where I get to watch John Wall play basketball again. You know what I'm saying? Like I haven't been able to watch him. I get to watch Brad one night. I get to watch John Wall play basketball again. You know what I'm saying? Like, I haven't been able to watch him. I get to watch Brad one night. I get to watch Russ go play against KD. Like, then I get to watch Dame go hit two shots from 40 feet.

You know what I mean? And win a game that, like, you probably shouldn't have won. Like, every night it's something crazy happening. Like, even I talk to KD. The crazy thing is it sucks that we don't have fans, but the level of like focus that everybody has right now, like when they step on that court, there's no one there. There's no worry about tickets.

Everybody's really locked in. Like people are shooting like ridiculous percentages and all that stuff. But like the level of focus has gone up because we just know you can't go anywhere when you leave the house. You can't go anywhere when you're on the road. You can't do anything. All you can do is go to the gym and't go anywhere when you leave the house. You can't go anywhere when you're on the road. You can't do anything. All you can do is go to the gym and then go back to the arena to test. And everybody's really focused in on this like 62 game.

Let's get through it. And I think we're getting some really great basketball. It's just a shame that our fans can't be here to watch it. How much has the bench chatter and the bench cheering and the bench heckling affected the competitiveness in a good way? Because there's been moments where you can tell

like somebody misses a free throw with a minute left. Happened in Celtics the other night. And the whole bench on the Lakers side went crazy. You know, and it just seems like

there's more shit talking than there's ever been. Yeah, oh, for sure. Because there's no fans. You can hear everything. So when we play against a guy that can't shoot, I'm like, hell no. He's with us and you can actually hear it. And I think that's the psyche part of when the playoffs comes and the guy is wide open and he's not really a great shooter. That's when you have fans, he probably was missing it, but now it's empty and it's like, he's with us.

People just dream on it, all yelling crazy things at guys that can't shoot. So it kind of messes up the psyche. But even going back to the bubble, we played the Clippers, Dane misses those free throws. Dane was 90%. Missed those free throws and Patrick and them is laughing and all that. And then Dane goes and puts up 60 the next night. It's just the anger that you get from people criticizing you, talking about you, whatever from the side.

Then it's just the pettiness that you'll see from Clay and Draymond when a bench guy just trying to talk, just trying to stay involved with his teammates and then they just no filter. Do you feel like the Clippers thing is an official feud?

No. And by basketball standpoint, no basketball feud? We never, we don't have any basketball feuds. No, man. That was just a moment.

That was a fun moment in time to where we were in the bubble. Tension was high. Testosterone was at the all time high. It's going to probably be a boom of bubble babies. It was just a lot going on at that time. But like, I got a boom of bubble babies from all the guys. It was just a lot going on at that time, but I got a lot of respect for those guys. I like, obviously,

Nicholas Batum, him there now. He said their team is completely different than what they were like during those moments. They learned from that. Although they did blow a 3-1 lead, I think it was for the better. They came in. They look focused. They look like they're a different team. I'm a big New World lead, I think it was for the better. They came in. They look focused.

They look like they're a different team. I'm a big New Wheel fan, so being able to see them, some of those guys. I like Kawhi a lot. His work ethic, he's just all about his business, but has a funny sense of humor that no one really knows about. And PG is playing at an elite level. The way he's playing right now, that hitting the side of the backboard is probably the best thing that happened to him in a long time. In those playoffs, seeing that, that struggle. Because it either brings the best out of you or you crumble. I think he's

showing... He was 50-50-90 for a while. Elite. That's... Well, it seems like the teams that made the Final Four last year were all teams that were pretty close and had good chemistry. Which, you know, you guys got bounced, but you were so banged up by the time we got halfway through that Lakers series.

But you have a similar team like that, too. And it was interesting that the bubble was so intense that it either brought these teams closer. In some cases, it just seemed like it broke them. And the Clippers seemed like one of those teams that they had a lot of shit going on and it all kind of came to the surface. But as you look back now, it's been a few months since the bubble.

What's going to be your big memory 30 years from now about the bubble? I mean, the funny part is we'll probably end up going back. But I think just the storytelling, the camaraderie, like the dorm room, like, atmosphere. Like, I don't think there will ever be a time in my life where I go, like, down to eat at my hotel, quote, unquote, like, my home.

And, like, I see DeMar going on a walk with Rudy Gay. I see Pop over here. I see Pat drinking at the bar. I see i see like guys from other teams coming i see cp bringing his team in to do like a wine tasting at our hotel like you just see all these different guys that you would never normally see like in their in their most comfortable element like unbothered unworried like no media nobody there to sign autographs nobody sneaking pictures at you it was like the most authentic basketball environment granted you'd rather have your family your dog whatever your loved ones your wife whatever it was just like literally like

you just hope and you worry about who like i remember getting treated for my back at 2 a.m after games like i would shower i used to eat and then i would lay on the table and get treatment for my fracture my fractured back. When did you ever do that? When would your staff ever be so bored and so in tune that they just want to work on it? They have nothing to do. It was almost like a giant

AAU tournament with better facilities and better food. Yeah, I was playing 40 minutes a night with a broken back and long stretch. Like you would never do that. Like 40 something minutes playoff intensity. Cause if you lose,

it's over like playoff. And you try to get into the playoffs, you get in and you're just treatment around the clock. Ice treatment, treatment practice. So you're, you're pro playing game. Cause that was really fun.

I really enjoyed the Portland Memphis playing game was a delight. Yeah, that was cool. Cause, cause we're going to see it this year. One of the interesting things about this season, especially cause it's shorter, there's going to be teams in that seven to 10 range that I don't think

people realize are going to be in that set. Like he could have the heat as like a nine seed having to win two straight just to make the playoffs. Cause all of a sudden there's going to be 10 games left. We'd be like, wait a second. We as like a nine seed having to win two straight just to make the playoffs. Because all of a sudden there's going to be 10 games left. We'll be like, wait a second. We could be a 10 seed. We keep this up. So like, it's going to be tough.

You'd be the 10 seed nobody would want to see. Because everybody would be healthy at that point. I'm like, oh shit, we got Dame and CJ now? It's funny because like a lot of teams are banged up. And some teams are having, they've been lucky. They haven't had a COVID issue. They haven't had injury but it's coming one of them is coming and you catch like you said before like who's going to want to play the heat when they got they got drogic back they got jimmy back they got they have a full roster like who's going to want to do that there's not

a lot of teams like who's gonna if we if we stay banged up like this and let's just say we all come back later and we go on a streak. We go on like a Utah Jazz streak. We win eight or nine games. Eight or nine games, seven games in a row shifts the whole. You go from 12 to like four, 12 to three in a hurry. So we're all in great spots, and I think it's going to make for some

really competitive basketball if we can continue to get through this season. Have you asked Carmelo why LeBron is still able to be incredible in year 18? Like, what the hell is going on? Like, how much longer is he going to be at the top here? And once he leaves, who's next? It's crazy because, like, you always kind of figure out, like, when is the decline coming, right? Like the basketball body remember how they changed the deals where you can't sign like multi-year deals after this year but it's like he could play for as long as like the way he's

shooting the ball now because i thought like later in his career he would shift to a post player i was thinking like oh he'll just he'll just back guys down and get 20 and 10 like he'll just play and it'll be an easy 20 and 10. Like Carl Malone, late Carl Malone, something like that. Right. He's doing the opposite. He's dribbling more. He's running more pick and rolls. He's shooting more three. So it's like, if he does, if he, if he shifts his game like this to where he still can dump and still can move, he'll play for what is Brady 42? Like he can play,

he can do five. If he shoots the ball like this, he can do five more years easy because his jumper is going to be so reliable. And that's the difference between like longevity, like Vince Carter. When you shift your game and you learn how to shoot, you can literally do whatever you want to be if you can handle the ball and pass like he can.

So I think he plays for sure until his son's in the league. And then from there, it's just a matter of how does he feel and what is he trying to accomplish? I think the greatest thing that ever happened to him was the last dance and the MJ Lovefest for six weeks because I think he's

somebody that over and over again has really thrived on having some sort of incentive or slate, right? Like when Curry won the two MVPs in a row and everybody was Curry, Curry, Curry, we love Curry. And he took all of that personally and they ended up winning the finals. And then KD goes to the Warriors and now he's got to get over that hump. I've always said it seems like there's always this new carrot

that he gets to chase. And then the MJ stuff was great because I feel like watching LeBron, I don't think this is the best he's ever been, but I do feel like he is in the most command of what he knows he can do and not do. You know what I mean?

I still feel like the second year Miami LeBron athletically was out of control. He'll never, I never say never, but that LeBron was like angry, but focused, 42 from three, jumped from the free throw line, defensive player of the year.

Like that was the most focused and angry he's probably ever been. He's still focused, but I don't think he has that same anger. His maturity level is understanding, like you said, his command now is ridiculous. Knowing everybody's plays, knowing how to move for his body. He's still not resting. Like he hasn't been sitting out games.

The lowest amount of minutes he's played in a long time, but he could be sitting games. He's not sitting games. Like you could tell like this is, this is, I'm going to prove it. Well, you know why? Yeah. He wants the MVP. He wants one more.

He's proving a point this year and I'm happy for him. I'm happy to see, as a guy from Ohio who's watched him play for his AU team, no one has ever had that type of pressure. No one has been anointed the chosen one so early and lived up or surpassed the hype the way he has. I don't think it's ever happened. He was the chosen one as a sophomore in high school and has been better than the chosen one which is crazy

I think the crazy thing watching him now at this stage of his career is the physicality like when he's just like I'm going to the basket and the amount of muscle he has and just the force and also all the tricks he has

he's basically either getting a foul or he's getting a layup. And by the way, if he misses the layup, the refs then will call the foul a split second later. You're working on mine. It's always going to work out for him is my point. And that was what was so interesting last week when Philly played them. And he had a great game against Philly, but Ben Simmons, at least physically could,

could kind of hang with them. And that was the first time I really started thinking about, Oh, if it's the Lakers in the finals, Philly Simmons might be the one guy who can at least bother him. Jimmy Butler was another one who at least wasn't afraid and went toe to toe. But at some point when LeBron,

whatever you want to do in the finals, he was going to do it. Yeah. I think, I think he, he still has mind control over a lot of those guys, but at some point, when LeBron, whatever he wanted to do in the finals, he was going to do it. Yeah, I think he still has mind control over a lot of those guys, but Jimmy's different. Jimmy built different. But Jimmy also can go get you a 40-point triple-double,

which is... I don't think Ben is at that level yet because of the lack of shooting. I think he can get you to 10 assists, to 10 rebounds. I think that's the difference in their team. If he can get a reliable jump shot, your Celtics are in trouble. But that's a big if. Yeah, it feels like the East is wide open.

Like right now, everybody's talking Philly, but we, you know, Embiid playing a full season. I want to see it. Playing at this level, playing, being good night after, and I still want to see it. Milwaukee still feels like they're figuring out who they are. Indiana's had a ton of injuries. We've had some injuries. And then Brooklyn is like the wild card

You could tell me Brooklyn's going to win 20 in a row I would believe it You could tell me they're going to be what they are right now And it's never going to change I would believe that too Yeah, and it's crazy because Drew Holiday is going to make a huge difference For that team in the playoffs

He's just kind of feeling his way around right now. Like, all right, I'm going to play my role. But in the playoffs, he's a different animal. Well, you saw it. Yeah, he killed you guys that year. We've seen it. So, like, that's what you guys got to worry about in the East is that Giannis doesn't have to take big shots with him.

Giannis just has to play a good game, be aggressive. Down the stretch, Drew and Chris Middleton are taking the shots. That's what we've seen during the regular season, at least. I mean, that's what I would want to happen if I was a member of that organization. The other thing, just so far, 20 games in or whatever, is the yokage seems like he's gone up a level.

He got married. It's something about getting married. He looks thinner. He looks like he's dunking more. He's another. He looks like he dunked more. He's another. It's like a command thing with him. He just kind of always knows what he wants to do and it's always the right decision.

Teams now, it seems like they're playing him more in the passing. He was like, cool, I'll just put up 38. The wild card for them is Porter. He's special. I think the funny part is i always watch the uh european beef it's like it's like growing up in the same hood as someone in eight like whenever the europeans play against each other there's like this inner like i don't

know if it's my country's better than yours or i'm better than you or what but he took that game a little personal against Rudy. That was personal. Well, Nurkic has that with some people, right? They all do. And they'll go shake hands and talk and speak in another language to start the game. And then elbows are flying and cursing each other out.

You don't know what you're saying, but you know it's not polite. And after the game, they go shake hands and talk about what they're going to do later. But you could just tell the way he played, that was extremely personal. It's funny. My favorite one ever of those was Sasha Vujicic and Goran Dragic, who literally hated each other.

And every time they would play, they would have to be separated. They would just be yelling at each other in some weird language. And you're right. There is a lot of foreign baggage, all that stuff. Before we go, I had to ask you, did you ever see a world like what happened

last summer where NBA players were really pushing America with social change, all the amazing stuff that was happening in the bubble. Did you ever imagine that that would happen in your lifetime? Honestly, no.

I never imagined it. I also wasn't sure we would be in this type of position at some point in my lifetime. As a guy who wants to make it to the NBA, you make it to the NBA, you become successful. And then to have what has happened up to this point in while, but an NBA happened from a, from a social injustice standpoint to a lack of liability and accountability on law enforcement, on certain people in positions of power to seeing like what can happen with COVID, seeing how it can be mishandled from the highest levels.

Like this, this combination of just things that you never thought would happen or never even thought about, like literally happening all at the same time. It was just, it was unlike anything I've seen, but I credit the NBA, I credit the players. I credit everybody who's used their platform to collaboratively figure out ways to improve society. I think that's what,

that's what we should all be trying to do. You know, we all hope, we all want to take care of our families. We all want to win championships and do that stuff. But I think we have a responsibility to lead the world better than we found it. And I think a lot of guys and women are doing that, especially the W players. They've done a great job of really speaking out and expressing themselves and using their platforms. And I think a lot of people should admire them and thank them and appreciate it because we're all just trying to make this world a better place for our kids in the next generation.

How do you think it plays out next five years from an NBA, WNBA front affecting this stuff? I think they continue to become more powerful, united, continuing to spread messages, continue to use their platforms. Brown's going to be a billionaire in the next three years. So like just kind of imagine like what he can do with that power. He's creating all these things. KD, they're all creating different things, different avenues to not only spread awareness, but empower the youth. And that'll continue to create minority wealth.

Obviously it's hard to make it to the NBA, but a lot of us come from unique circumstances and situations where a lot of us don't make it out. So like being able to kind of empower, keep that door open, allowing like G leaguers to make more money. Like all that stuff is important because that's money that go back to the communities. That's how you kind of change and shift the culture or generation or neighborhood. And I think guys are strategically starting to think like, like Jay-Z, like, how do I go back to my neighborhood instead of like renting these areas? Like I need to be buying them and then renting them out. Like, how do you go back and kind of really take advantage of, you know, what you have?

It's just hard for me to believe some of the guys that are coming into the league, how polished they are. And even like when we met you eight years ago now, it seemed like in the last decade, and I don't know if it's social media and maybe learning from the mistakes of previous generations or whatever, but these people are coming in as finished products. I just know what I was like when I was 22.

I was not thinking about any of this stuff. You're just trying to survive and try to figure out what you're doing that night. And you're seeing it every year with these new guys that come in and the people that are their role models are the people that are doing stuff on and off the court. Right.

You're exactly right. We're much more advanced, but it's a credit to those that came before us. They've kind of laid the groundwork and it's trial and error. Like I was, I was a little brother. So I got to see what worked for big brother and what didn't work. And I think as,

as a generation now, as a group of players, for one, we have the fear of failure. We have the fear of going broke. We have the fear of doing all the things that we've seen happen before us. And we want to emulate the great ones, the guys that have done it perfectly, the junior bridgemen of the world.

I idolize him because of how he was able to take advantage of his situation. Should he have been paid more and all that stuff? Absolutely. But he did make excuses, and he doesn't hate on the younger generation. He figured out a way to make more money doing other stuff. And I think that's how we have to really look at this game. It's like, I love this game to death. I love sports.

I love basketball. But this is a moment in my life, a small moment if I have a 70, 80, 90, 100-year life to where I want to really maximize this, but build something else, take advantage of this platform and kind of be the guy that they can look up to. There's Junior, there's CJ. Those are the type of guys. That's how I want to be mentioned.

I think you're on your way. Did you follow the stuff last week with Barkley and... Who was the player? Now I'm blanking. Donovan Mitchell. That turned into a two-day thing about the old guys on TNT

and the older media members and the younger generation like you guys. It's something KD and I, when we did our podcast, I could actually feel the hurt in his voice when he talked about it, where he was like, we idolize these guys and then they go on after we play and they shit on us

and they don't seem like they're on our side. I don't understand it. You're a media guy who's also a basketball star. Where do you stand on this whole thing? I think there's a way to handle things. I talked about this on Bonzi and Shee's podcast last week. I told him, I said, look, I don't have a problem with what Shaq said. I have a problem with the timing of it.

There's a way to be constructive in terms of your criticism. There's a way to kind of empower or even challenge guys. But I think on that stage after the game, Donovan's playing well. He's going to be an all-star again. Like he's having a great year. He's young. He's mature. I don't think that the way he did it at that moment in time was beneficial for anybody.

I don't think it was beneficial for Donovan. I think it was awkward for the viewers. It was awkward for everyone. Also, he think it was beneficial for Donovan. I think it was awkward for the, for the viewers. It was awkward. Also, he's got an earpiece. You know how weird it is. You're doing those interviews. You can't even see the people. And that's just the ear.

Like, it's like, come on, man. Like it's, I think there's a time and a place for it. And I think, I think a lot of, a lot of guys mean well, right. And I think they're, they're genuinely, truly trying to help people. I think, I think some of the youth are haters. Like of us like and i'm not a hater but i'm saying like younger guys hate on the older guys i think some of the older guys hate on the younger guys and there's like envy there's jealousy there's a lot of guys that make a lot of money that aren't as good as the guys back in the day like there's all of that and i would probably be pissed off too but i think there's a

way to manage it in a way to handle it to where I look forward to being able to be in that position one day to show people how it should be handled. It's hard to speak on it because I'm not there, but when I get there, I'll handle it how I think it should be handled. You give credit where credit is due. If you have an opinion about someone, express it. But I think there's a way to be professional to where you aren't challenging people's manhood or challenging people's abilities to that extent on that stage. He could talk to Donovan any day of the week. Talk to him about why you don't think he's ready in private.

And then if you want to address it in public and you're all comfortable like that, I think that's when you do it. But you could just be like, I don't think that team has enough. He said, you don't have enough. You can't take, like, that's't have enough. That's antagonizing. That's some stuff you read on Twitter.

I was watching it and my wife was with me because I was watching the end of that game and then we were going to watch something. So she was waiting. And we actually watched that moment as it happened. And she was like, what just happened? Why did he do that? That was so rude. She's just as approaching it as. And I'm like, there's happened? Why did he do that? That was so rude. You know, she's just as approaching it as,

and I'm like, there's some weird old school, new school shit they're trying to navigate. I thought it was very strange. Conversely, they had a really good moment last year talking about Embiid and how disappointed they were that, you know, for somebody as talented as he was, that he hadn't figured out the piece of, if you want to be great, like what you talked about earlier, if you want to be great, you want to be great every night. that for somebody as talented as he was, that he hadn't figured out the piece of,

if you want to be great, like what you talked about earlier, if you want to be great, you want to be great every night. And it wasn't there. And they had a real constructive convo about it. And that's why I still feel like that show is so valuable. So when they let it kind of slip away with something like that Mitchell thing,

it's like, all right, you guys are undermining yourself. Because there's still the authority on all this stuff. There's still almost like the council, the NBA council. So when they screw that up, I always get mad. Yeah, and people love them. I love watching them. They take on basketball. Sometimes you can tell they didn't watch the game

or they're not watching. But you respect them as players. They've gone through what we've gone through. Shaq, arguably the most dominant big man ever. Charles, one of the most dominant players ever. And then Kenny is just like, was a good role player on a championship team. Like that type of guy, you enjoy being around.

He's matter of fact, but keeps it real. I think they have a great balance. Ernie's a legend, but there comes a time where I think certain stuff should be done a certain way. And that's just me as a man saying that. I think certain stuff can be handled better but i i think as a whole like my grandma enjoys watching them you know what i mean like they and people enjoy it

and a lot of people use them as like their only flow of information right like we watch league pass we're hoop junkies we're gonna watch everything some people only watch the tnt games and only like see charles shack kenny speaking. And they take their opinions and make their opinions based on everything they see and they say. And that could be a problem. The only old guy thing I completely agree with is when it's a three on two and the two guys on the wing just run to the corners, which you do. I'm not calling you out. I'm just saying, I'll never be able to get used to that because as somebody who played once upon a time, I know you don't believe I used to play basketball.

Analytics though. Like I wouldn't. No, I get it. I get, I get all of it. They are telling me, stop CJ, shoot the three. So like now I have to reprogram my brain to like, all right, they want me to shoot more threes. Well, but now you see the new guys come in the league and they're programmed on three-on-twos to go on a 45-degree angle to the corner over just getting a layup.

I'll never get used to that. And I get all the analytics. It makes sense. But I'm always like, just do three-on-two, get a layup. But that's just where basketball is now. And it's good for you and Dame. I mean, one of the best things that's happened for you two is the league has shifted toward all the stuff you guys are really good at.

You know, you can do it. It's beautiful. I mean, if anything, you, you'd almost want three, you could do three guard lineup and it would be as effective.

I mean, some teams are doing that now, right? You could just bring in, if Simon's became really good this year, you just play the three of you at crunch time and teams would have trouble dealing with it and the spacing, all that stuff.

Yeah, get Nello out there, get a shooter out there, and then a big, and you're good. When are you coming back? When the good Lord says it's time, man. I'm two weeks in. I got a checkup. I check up on, I think, the 15th. I got a checkup in checkup on i think the 15th i gotta check up in like two weeks 13

days from now so that'll be four weeks in a boot and then i progress from there so we'll see how i see how i feel see how i'm moving on the court and all that stuff but i'm i'm in i'm in two more weeks in the boot for sure take your time yeah this is number three. This is my third one. So this is old NBA fan, Bill Tucker. Don't fuck around with feet. Yeah, this is, this is third time's a charm,

but like this, this one was a lot easier to deal with than the, than the Jones fracture. I will say that. Like I'm in a boot. I can walk to the bathroom. Like you take, you take,

don't take this. Don't take things for granted. Like walking to the bathroom, man. That's the, I can't walk my dog. It it's just two weeks now i've been able to walk my dog so like that's the little stuff like we get nice days randomly here in portland it's the sun's out she's looking at me and i'm like i can't walk you i can't don't take those things for granted those jones fractures are particularly nasty yeah like. Like, I don't know what Jones did to have a fracture named after him that everybody hates having, but... Different type of pain, different type of recovery.

I mean, that was like, that was brutal. And that was the first time I was on college campus with crutches and snow. That was the one KD had in OKC, right? In 2013 or 15 or one of those years. Yeah. The refraction rate, how he refractioned it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

When do you think we're going to work together? What year? If you had to say over or under. I'll give you over or under 2025. You're running your own stuff now, man. You're super... From when we started

to where we're at now, we both made some great strides. I've always had a spot for you. We tried to get you at Grantland. We've always wanted to work with you. We're in 2021. This is my eighth year. Yeah.

22, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

So sometime this decade. I think I'll play at least, I'm predicting the future, seven, eight more years for sure. That gives me 15. I always said 15 for sure. So I want to get at least 15 in.

So I get at least 15 in and then we'll kind of revisit this in the next couple of years. First of all, you're delusional. You're playing until you're 40. Easy. You have those extra three years where you're just like 20 minutes a game,

occasional heat check guy, spread the floor. You're on like a finals team because they can trust you. You know exactly who you are at this point in your life. You're going to have a whole end of your career stage. It's going to be great. Yeah, I mean, I look forward to it all. Like I always say, I'll play for as long as I can play. Like God willing, I'm healthy.

Like I'll play for as long as I can play. I'll have kids. Like I'll check in with the kids, check in checking with the wife like make sure everything is cool but like my plan is to play until i can't my brother's 33 now and he was like he's like he feels great he's like i can't wait to see you like from 30 to like 38 to see how like mentally like everything comes in the in the shift with your physical well you haven't even done you haven't even done some of the gimmicks like when chris paul was like i'm just doing plant-based diets and then just got better. You still have like three gimmicks that you haven't even done yet.

That's true. So I mean, we can always just talk about ways we can collaborate together for sure and then figure out what we're going to do in the 2030s and 2040s. All right. I'm here. I'm here if you ever need me. It was good to see you, CJ McCollum. I hope to see you back on the court.

I know Portland will make a run. I know whether you're a six-seater or you end up in that stupid play-in thing or whatever, you guys will be there in the end. Nobody will want to see you. Say hi to everybody in Portland for us. I got you, man. And when I relaunch my podcast,

I'll have you on at some point. I'm ready. I'm here. All right. Good to see you. I appreciate you, man. And when I relaunch my podcast, I'll have you on at some point. I'm ready. I'm here. All right. Good to see you. I appreciate you. Have a good one. All right.

That's it for the podcast. Have another one coming on Thursday, red hot, smoking out million dollar picks. We will have our Superbowl pick. Can I keep it up? Can I get through the entire playoff season and crush it? We will find out on Thursday.

Also, don't forget about sports Cards Nonsense. Don't forget about Black Girls Songbook, two new podcasts from the Ringer Podcast Network and a new rewatch of us. We did Out of Sight. We'll see you on Thursday. I don't have.