The Bill Simmons Podcast - Brooklyn’s Ceiling, Brady vs. Boston Fans, 'The Bachelor,' and Taylor Swift With Jackie MacMullan and Nora Princiotti  

Episode Date: January 19, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Jackie MacMullan to discuss the Kevin Durant–James Harden combo for the Nets, the Nets’ exciting win over the Bucks, “hopeless” NBA teams in a shortened season, fake NBA trades, and more (2:00). Then Bill talks with The Ringer’s Nora Princiotti about Tom Brady and the Buccaneers heading to Lambeau Field to face the Packers in the NFC championship game and possible trades for Deshaun Watson (1:11:00), before discussing the new season of ‘The Bachelor’ and Taylor Swift's latest two albums (1:41:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, we're talking Brooklyn Nets and the NBA. We're talking Tom Brady and Boston fans. We're talking about The Bachelor and Taylor Swift. I promise nobody else has this combination today. It's all next. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite, man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this. It's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air? Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes

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called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. We're also brought to you by the ringer.com and the ringer podcast network, where I put up a new rewatchables podcast yesterday. First blood me, Brian Koppelman talking about, in our opinion, the first great modern action movie and how it paved the way for, uh, for basically everything in the happen over the next four decades with action movies. Go check that one out. Coming up, we can talk to Jackie McMullen about the NBA. And we're going to talk to Nora Princeati about Tom Brady, The Bachelor, and Taylor Swift. Oh yeah, it's all next. First Pro Jam. All right, Jackie McManus here. We're taping this on Tuesday morning.

Watch Brooklyn play Milwaukee last night in a game that was shockingly, ridiculously entertaining. And you could kind of see the future of the East playing out. And my big takeaway was like, holy shit, Brooklyn's not going to be able to get any stops, but nobody's going to be able to stop them.

And you see them in a shootout with Yannis, Yannis Middleton drew on one end and just hardened Durant on the other. It's like, I just like Brooklyn's chances to score more than Milwaukee's chances. Milwaukee is now in trouble. A little bit. And you know what jumped out at me? First of all, doesn't their gym, their court look like an ice skating rink?

That's the first thing. But the second thing is Joe Harris must be like the happiest guy in America playing out there with Harden and Durant because they draw so much attention. He's getting wide open looks. Now that might change when Kyrie comes back, but you know, he was, he, he had a great game and that was partly why they, um, but, but at some point, Bill, doesn't it matter that they can't stop

people or they won't stop people? I want to say, I don't even know if it's, they can't, I just don't know if they don't. Well, they're not going to stop people with the lineup they had last night. Now the question, so, you know, Durant's going to stop people with the lineup they had last night. The question, so you know Durant's going to be there, Crunch Time, and Harden, and Joe Harris, and DeAndre, I guess, because they're going to need a big. Yeah, Jarrett's gone. Jeff Green was in that fifth spot,

but Kyrie's going to be in that fifth spot when he comes back. So that means the three scorers, Harris, DeAndre, and you watched some of the positions last night. They had DeAndre, Giannis spread in the four, and DeAndre was guarding Giannis. I'm like, I know that's not going to work.

So I think ultimately, as weird as this sounds, Durant might have to be playing the five in crunch time against most teams. I don't think he minds that. He did that a lot with Golden State. And they were very, think about it, they never used their bigs down the stretch of any big game. But they't think he minds that. He did that a lot with Golden State. And they were very, think about it. They never used their bigs down the stretch of any big game. But they still had Draymond. They still had an incredible defender next to him.

They did. They did. So I was watching Houston last night. And they're just a mess. And Oladipo seemed like the happiest guy in the world because he's going to get 30 to 35 the rest of the year. But poor P.J. Tucker's on that team, just standing in the corner.

All of his skills are useless. So this team where nobody else plays defense. And I was wondering, could that be the guy for Brooklyn? Where now you put PJ Tucker in that fifth spot. He could do some of the dirty work. He knows Durant from Texas. And maybe that's the answer. Well, certainly he would want to go there.

I would think. I mean, they would think it was just so fun to watch. Durant is just, he's shooting 48% from the three-point line. I mean, my God, he's already unstoppable everywhere else. And if he's shooting 48% from the three-point line, and Harden's off to a terrible start from the three-point line, right now he's shooting a career low. I think he's around 33%.

So he's not even anywhere near what he's going to be. You could just see you could feel the load lifted off him, fair or unfair. He's an unbelievable scorer, but indifferent defensively on a couple of plays there, and at some point, do they make him

guard? You could see that Milwaukee was delighted anytime he was guarding a ball handler. They were like, cool. He's not going to fight through a screen on that. You know, the Durant thing. So it's early. There's only been 11 games, but he's very early. He's inching toward a 55, 50, 90 splits right now, which isn't sustainable. But, you know, I, Russell and I, Russell always makes fun of me. Cause I'm always like, he looks 97% where he was, 93%. Russell's always like, where do you get these percentages? I don't, I don't care. He looks

like he's comfortable and healthy. That's all that matters. So does he look any worse than he did when he was lighting up the league before he blew out his Achilles in the 19 playoffs? Cause I feel like he looks the same. Well, we won't know until you get into the season a bit, because when you get tired, that's when your body starts to break down and they haven't played enough games yet and he hasn't played enough minutes yet. I don't think for us to really know for sure. My takeaway from last night is like,

I spent so much time after this trade. We did a podcast right after trying to figure out like, all right, Harden, Durant, Kyrie. How's this going to work? After watching last night, you think like, well, maybe the Kyrie part doesn't even really matter because the part that matters is just the Durant Harden combo is historic. This is like Elgin and Jerry West. This is Bird and McHale when McHale had two good feet. This is right. You're going down the line, KJ and Barkley. This is a unique opportunity to

have two unstoppable guys together. And the Kyrie part to me is almost irrelevant, right? He's like, he's like a luxury for this. I don't know about that. I don't know if I'd go that far. You know, you, you do mention Kyrie, you mentioned the podcast we were on. I would like, if, if you would mind to address that. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. I really haven't had a chance to address this because I'm not on Twitter. Although I guess from time to time, someone pretends to be me on Twitter, but I've never been on there. And so I haven't had a chance to address that pod that we did. And we were in the midst of a conversation where I had started a conversation about Kyrie and about a conversation I had had with him some years ago about

just to, you had asked me what made him tick. I think in essence, we were talking about the mindset of Kyrie because everyone's wondering why has he been away? What's going on with him? Well, and you also, you've had a ton of conversations with him over the years. I think you've had a pretty unique relationship with him. Yeah. Many conversations with him. And so I started to talk about one of the conversations we had, which was him telling me that he thought the NBA draft should be abolished because he didn't think it was fair that someone got to choose where he got to go and who he had to play for. And so we started having that conversation and I started to explain that why that wasn't ever going to happen in the NBA. And from here, two things happened. Number one,

I used some poor choice of words that certainly I understand that now and in the context at the time, because I hadn't completed my thought, I guess that was the first. So the first problem is the poor choice of words. The second part was I never did complete the thought. And this is something that offended people. And honestly, I'm mortified by it because what has been explained or come out is not at all what I intended in this conversation. If I had continued the conversation, which I didn't, was that as Kyrie and I started talking about this, I was saying to him that the NBA would never allow players to just

come in and commiserate with him to some degree about the idea that if you're a great young player coming out of college, you have four years probably going to be with that team because they have your draft rights. And that's how it's structured. So, you know, that conversation that I had with Kyrie went on to many other things that day. And what it made me realize, and this is, I think, two or almost three years ago, because one of the things I object to is I'm hearing that people thought I was criticizing Kyrie. And what it made me realize, and this is, I think, two or almost three years ago, because one of the things I object to is I'm hearing that people thought I was criticizing Kyrie.

It was sort of the opposite, because what I learned from this conversation with him, and it was quite a long one, was him talking about the idea that he wanted to be, he was very in tune with social justice, that he wanted to be an advocate. And I think he's, you know, since then, you've seen his connection with his Native American culture, what he's done with the WNBA players. We just learned now that he bought George Floyd's family a house. And so what I wanted to get to, or what I was wanted to explain that day was that this is something I saw a long time ago. I knew he was very passionate about this. So, and that's not, you know, this was long before George Floyd or Breonna Taylor or Jacob Blake or any of that. So that's where I had hoped to take that

conversation in the podcast. You know, our conversation veered from there. That's on me. And so all I really can do is, you know, to the people I offended, I hope they would accept my apology, but also my explanation. Because that conversation with Kyrie to me was very valuable to me. I learned a lot from him and about him that day. And that's what I was trying to project. So that's a long-winded explanation, but there it is. I need to get that off my chest. Well, you know, one of the things, we there it is. I need to get that off my chest. So, well, you know, one of the things we did that pod, I dragged you into it two minutes before because you and I were taking no

excuse. So no, no, no, no. I'm not making an excuse. I'm just saying we were reacting to a trade. It's jumping around all these different directions. And I regret as you were heading into that, we're just bouncing. We're going from place to place. And I just wish I'd been like, wait, wait, hold on. We got to go back to that. And I just wish I'd been like, wait, wait, hold on. We got to go back to that. Because I knew that was part one of wherever you were going with that Kyrie thing. So, but yeah, if people don't understand, you know, where you were coming from and also your 40 year history with talking to these players and having really unique relationships

with them. Well, anyway, but you mentioned Kyrie. One of the things that I, that I looked, I look at, I was looking at usage rate and I'm not taking about this year or even the last 10 years. I'm talking about NBA all time usage rate. Okay. You know, who's number one, it's Jordan, right? You probably know who's number two. It's Westbrook. Kobe's number three. AI is number four. I bet you won't guess who's number five, but maybe you will. If you're, you're probably smarter than I am. This shocked me.

DeMarcus Cousins is number five all time in NBA usage rate. Oh my God. Isn't that incredible? That is true. I just looked it up. But the reason I was looking this up was Harden, Durant, and Kyrie Irving are among three of the top 16 players of all time in usage rate. And that's, that's incredible to me.

So this then asks the question, how do they reconcile that among each other? And I think the big question becomes, they do seem to me to have respect for one another, great respect for their own abilities. But I know how these guys work, and so do you. They all think in their heart of hearts, they're the best. They're the best. Even though someone might have more credentials, they all believe they're the best. So can they all find a way to, you know, meet out this, I'm going to take the shot pie. I'm going to have the ball in my hands because that's the one thing I noticed when I was watching last night, because it really was fun to watch. Who had the ball most of the time. Harden Kyrie needs the ball to do what he does. Harden needs the ball to do what he does. So maybe,

maybe what they do is what Dan Tony did when he was using Chris Paul and Harden and having one guy on for this many minutes, he comes off and the other guy comes on and Dan Tony's on their staff. So maybe they look at, maybe they look at doing that and that could work. Well, so you, you figured Durant's the constant. Harden plays 32 minutes a game. Kyrie plays 32 minutes a game. You really only crisscrossed them a couple of times and you crisscrossed them at the end. At the end. Yeah. The last three minutes, last five minutes are all on the court together. And you know, it wouldn't be the worst

thing to preserve James Harden's minutes. Who's played the most minutes of anybody over the last several years. And Kyrie, who has an injury history. I think I wish I had thought to call Dan Tony about it, but you know, he, he had the whole blueprint right there. He did it and they did it pretty successfully. That was the year that was the hamstring year. You know, they almost made it. So there's two things that make me suspicious about this plan. The more, especially after watching last night. One is we know Kyrie can float in and out of games in a good way. I don't mean that in a bad way where, cause he was with LeBron.

LeBron had the ball a lot. Yep. And he figured out little time, little pockets to take over in games. And then those Cavs teams, Kyrie would have these moments where he would just get hot and LeBron would be like, cool. And he would just ride Kyrie for eight minutes. Otherwise he would take over when LeBron wasn't in the game or he would take over these little pockets or if they had the right matchup, whatever. Right. And they kind of learned how to do that. And he was 25, 24, 25 points a

game that I think his last Cleveland season, but who wasn't happy about that Kyrie Irving. All right. So I think you have to go back to, first of all, why wasn't he happy in Cleveland? All the intel we got when he showed up in Boston that first year. And I know you talked to him that year too. It's like he wanted to be the guy. He didn't want to be LeBron's little sidekick buddy dude. He wanted to be like the franchise guy. He wanted to be the one they consulted on personnel decisions.

I remember somebody told me a story that first year, um, he, they were figuring out like those alternate uniforms and they kind of ran, ran some of the options past Kyrie and Kyrie was giving all these notes and perspective and, and their takeaway was like, this is what he wanted. It was never going to happen in Cleveland. He was never going to be the guy like, Hey, what do you think of our alternate uniforms? They're going to go to LeBron. LeBron's going to have the best seat on the plane. LeBron's going to have the perks. And that was the stuff that bothered him. Now he's back in that situation, but even a little bit worse because he's third best player on this team. So I wonder a, how does he handle that behind the scenes? And then B, from a basketball standpoint,

it's much harder to float in and out when now you have these two spectacular scorers. And is he going to be happy? And could it be a thing where he's happy for one year and then he would be like, I want my own team again? I don't know the answer. And I think the one thing Doc Rivers always told me was the guys you want when you're putting guys together, the hungry guy, you want the guy that hasn't won yet. Because no matter what anybody says, he's still the hungriest. Now, I would argue that a guy like LeBron James is, nobody's hungrier than him year in and year out.

I would argue that. But he's, you know, he's in the 1% of all basketball players of all time in that regard. The real true killer winners are like that. Is Kyrie like that? I think he may be. I think he may be. but he's already won. Durant's already won. The one guy that hasn't won yet is James Harden. So maybe James Harden is the one guy that will be willing to say, you know what? All right, I'll step two. I'll take two steps back. I'm not taking four,

but I'll take two steps back because this matters to me. It matters to my legacy. I want to prove everybody wrong about all the flack I've taken the way I, you know, shot myself out of Houston. So maybe he's the guy that'll say, all right, here, I'm going to give you the ball. And,

and, and I can, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer. Well, here's the thing. He's already hinted at this.

Cause he's talking about how he needs to be more of a playmaker. Right. And this is the guy who's averaged 11 assists a game in a season. Right. Right. Which, which all sounds great. It's like, cool. Unselfish James Harden. He'll just set everyone else up. But then you watch him last night and this is one of the best offensive players in the history of the league. And if he has matchups and he can either shoot a wide open three is a 40% shooter or just go to the basket and either draw a foul, whatever. And it's, he's, his instinct is always going to be to do that. You know,

he's not John Stockton in the midnight. Yeah. So that's it. That's where I'm skeptical because you get in a game like yesterday where it's mano a mano and I think both teams could sense that. All right. There's something bigger happening than than just we're playing this game on Martin Luther King Day. This is like we are now really feeling each other out as contenders in the East. And Harden got caught up in it. And Durant was awesome the whole game. And Harden took over the game for two minutes because he could. So that's where I become skeptical.

And you know what I noticed about Harden? And, you know, we were all a little tough on him after because of the way he managed this thing in Houston but I don't know if I don't know if you remember this play but he somehow ended up on the weak side there was a shot that missed anyway anyway he ended up on the weak side the left side of the basket and he just banked it in and it was so textbook and so perfect you know and it unexpected. Like the ball came to him unexpectedly, but there was nothing herky jerky about it. Like the dude is so fluid and you forget sometimes. And I feel that same way about Durant. I mean, when Durant rises up for, you know,

every time he shoots, I'm like, well, that's going in every time. Well, he had Harden had a play. And if you want to know the difference between Harden and Houston this season and Brooklyn in that one game, it was this play. He missed a shot, but came flying in and got his own rebound. Gave it back to Dren for the three. There was a hustle aspect to it that, you know, he mailed in the three weeks in Houston or the four weeks, whatever it was. And it's going to go on his legacy.

I don't think it will ultimately matter because people forgive this stuff. But it was pretty egregious what he did. And he's trying to cover it up after the fact. Hey, man, I gave my heart and soul to Houston. But when you mail it in like that, people in Houston aren't going to forget that. But that play I thought was amazing. The flip side, there was a play when he took over for a couple minutes and then Durant had the ball.

And you could see on the TV, Harden's way on the top of the TV because he's on the other side of the play. And this is the big flaw with Harden. If he's not in the play, he's completely useless. He's 30 feet from the basket, not even pretending to be a threat. He just has no idea what to do. That's my fear with that team in crunch time, is it becomes this dueling

banjos thing where it's like, all right, you get the ball this time. I'll stand over here and do nothing. If he's doing that and Kyrie's doing that, I think that's going to be hard. Well, and they got to defend. I was looking again at we always hear the same thing over and over. If you're a top five defense, if you can be in top five in offensive efficiency and

defense efficiency, you have a good chance to be one of the best teams, left team stand. There's only one team in the league right now that's in the top five in both, the Lakers. They're the only team. Milwaukee's close, but it's interesting. Milwaukee defensively has taken a step back this year. Again, small sample size. It might all work itself out. And that could be as simple as Bledsoe,

who was the second team. I think he was second team last year, wasn't he? All defensive player. You know, maybe he was first team. You know, he's gone. Maybe that settles in. So I think they're nine. They're outside the top 10.

But the Lakers are the only team. And Brooklyn's way down there defensively. And for the Sixers, it's offensively where they fall. And then the Clippers, you know, because where they fall. And then the Clippers, you know, because I'm like, hey, the Clippers are 1-5 row. Maybe they're figuring this out. Then you go look at their defensive numbers.

I mean, they're horrendous. They're not good. And they got problems with the pick and roll. They're not really defending the three-point line particularly well. And you look at it and you say, how is this possible? You have Kawhi Leonard,

one of the greatest defensive players in league, in the league scene in the last several years, Paul George, and Pat Beverly. How are they not closing out three-point shooters on the perimeter? That doesn't make sense to me. Well, see, the Clipper fans I know are all excited. They feel like the team's coming together.

They have a little five-game winning streak. Well, they... They beat the hell out of Indiana this week. They did. They did. I mean, they have talent and I, I picked them last year and I really thought they, I really thought they were going to get it together. And it feels like they're getting something together here. And I think Tyloo, I think he's got their attention and I think they're responding to him, but, but you know, I think I looked at the defensive efficiency ratings. They're down around 22. Like, that's just not going to get it done.

I want to talk more about Brooklyn, but let's take a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers,

host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. So I was thinking about this last night watching Brooklyn match up with Milwaukee. Which is actually a good match up for them. It is.

Favors Brooklyn, I feel. They probably have to improve so the two decisions they would have to make crunch time. I'm basing all this on crunch time. I just care about the last five minutes. Right. Just like every other NBA fan,

huh? Well, this is when the game gets decided as we saw last night. Um, so Jeff green was out there and Deandre is out there. I think Deandre has been a C minus for a couple of years now. And I'm not sure he can be out there in crunch time to me. He's not a lot different than what the Lakers had last year with JaVale and

Dwight Howard and people like that, where ultimately if you're trying to win a title, I'm not sure he's out there. Right. And I actually think their destiny would be Duran at the five with the four who can switch on D and guard bigger guys, things like that. Like a PJ Tucker type.

I don't think it's going to say, cause who is that on their roster right now? It's that they don't have it. But you almost have to think about this. The teams they have to beat and what that five would be and whether the question is, we're just going to outscore them.

That's fine. We know we're going to get killed in the other end. Or are we actually going to try to get stops? Because the legacy of this league is you need stops. That's how you win titles. The reason the Lakers won last year wasn't because LeBron and Anthony Davis are awesome offensive players.

They got stops. They ratcheted up the defense in big ways in the last two rounds. That's why they won. Especially Davis. Davis was incredible those last two rounds. Really unbelievable. So Milwaukee, it's weird.

That's actually a good matchup for Brooklyn Because the matchup for Milwaukee to exploit Is just Giannis against anybody But we know Giannis' last four minutes is a little shaky And he doesn't want to get fouled So now it's like Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton They're going to win that every time Well yeah, because that

Think about the last possession Chris Middleton in the corner doubled And Giannis isn't even in your screen Like he's I don't have one of those huge TVs that you guys all have Like he isn't even in your screen. Like, he's, I don't have one of those huge TVs that you guys all have. Like, he wasn't even in my screen. Like, where is he?

You know? You got to go to Giannis. You got to go to Giannis. They have not figured out, and Giannis is now, he was drafted in 2013. He has not figured out the inside-outside game

for the last four minutes the way that I was. I just think that's a guy who should be almost be used by like Embiid. He's the biggest guy on the floor yesterday. It's like, just get him the ball near the basket

and have, but I don't think he wants to get fouled. I really don't. I think, I think there's, remember when that happened to Antoine Walker, that was the worst case

example of it. When he was just like, I don't want to get fouled. And he starts quick shooting stuff and Giannis isn't at that point yet. No, who is the guy? Oh, so sad. example of it when he was just like, I don't want to get fouled. And he starts quick shooting stuff. And Giannis isn't at that point yet. No. Who is the guy?

Oh, so sad. All the way back to Orlando played in the finals with Shaq. Oh, Nick Anderson. Nick Anderson. I ruined it. I mean, he was never the same player after that, you know, and such a good guy too. And a good player. But that really did him in. Giannis is 10 free throws a game and he's under 60% right now.

But you can really feel it in the last couple of minutes of the game. Anyway, I think Brooklyn-Milwaukee, that's actually a good matchup for Brooklyn right now. The one that I think worries me if I'm Brooklyn is Philly. Because you have the Embiid piece

that means DeAndre has to play. Right. And Embiid is on that means DeAndre has to play. Right. And Embiid is on a mission, man. He is. If he could stay healthy, and he has so far, and they've done a good job, you know, his minutes aren't outrageous. He's just, I'm telling you, in talking with him, he's like mad.

He's embarrassed. He's on a mission. You know, it's going to be so interesting to see going forward. Like, do they have hardened remorse? I mean, we'll be talking about that all year see going forward. Like this, do they have hardened remorse? I mean, we'll be talking about that all year, I guess. Right. Does Philly have hardened remorse? I don't know.

That was how we, last week when we did the pod, that was my big takeaway. Um, that I, I wish I'd covered when we did the pod. So I did it on my pod the next day. Cause 24 hours after I kept thinking about it, I was like, man, if I'm a Philly fan, you have this generational offensive player who's available. And basically I'm haggling over this Tyrese Maxey need to be in this deal or not. Tyrone Maxey, Tyrese, Tyrese, Tyrese, Tyrese Maxey. There's two Tyrese's in the first round. Um, he's the other one's good too. You're right. They're both pretty good. But all, if that's the guy that held up me getting James Harden and then Simmons went out and had a terrible game over the weekend that I think got the Sixers fans,

you know, a little bit, it's definitely going to be hard and buyer's remorse. I think as, as the season goes along, there's no question, man, they're so tough on Ben Simmons in Philly.

It's just unbelievable to me how tough they are on it because they're not like, I get that he doesn't score 20 a game. He's, I don't know that he ever will. Cause I don't know that that's what he's about. And, but he impacts the game so many other ways. I mean, I think I voted him second or third for defense of a player of the year last year. He's, he's, I think I voted second for him. Yeah. I mean, he's like really a great defensive player and he's, you know, we, we know about the shooting. I mean, I don't even want to talk about it anymore. Cause it's, you know, I feel like I jinxed him. I did a piece on him last year talking ad nauseum about it. And I don't think he took another shot the rest of the year after we wrote it, but you know, there are ways we've talked about it. Open floor transition.

There are ways he can be, he can be great. And yeah, but you don't get open floor transition in the last four minutes of game five of a playoff series. Well, especially in a playoff series. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah,

I just be, I just think the Sixers fans are so tough on him. I'm surprised, you know, I wonder if he still gets traded. Wow. Maybe this wasn't the, maybe this wasn't their trade,

but maybe there's like, if Washington, so I was looking at Washington and I was going to do this later with you, but we can do this quickly. Yeah. Washington's three and eight. They're one of the worst teams in the league. If,

if they're looking at it, like Bradley Beal is just going to leave in two years. What are we doing with that? Like, do you start thinking about Beal and Simmons and try to get basically 90% of what that Harden package was? And then if you're Philly, does that solve every problem you have?

Because now you can play Harris as the undersized four, basically. Yeah, it does solve a lot of your problems. You have good guards. The maxi piece of their whole season, I don't think anyone was expecting that. I mean, from what I heard, they didn't want to put him in the deal. And they basically put their foot down and they were like,

no, it's going to be Simmons, Tybalt, a couple picks, and we're done. Maxie's not in this. So the question is, will they ever pull the trigger on Bradley Beal? And, you know, Bradley Beal, I give him a lot of credit. I've talked to Bradley about this before. And he's been very good about not, you know, demanding a trade. He hasn't done that.

But he's honest when he says, yeah, I want to be here, but I want to win. Like, I hope we're going to win at some point. And remember, Brooklyn, we thought was in the mix for Bradley Beal last year. This is before the Harden thing. And he was like, look, I'm not saying I want to leave Washington, but it's pretty cool when Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant are saying they want you to come. So if you're Bradley Beal, you can understand exactly where he is in all this. So does he finally say, you know what? I've hung in here with you guys.

Man, you just got to let me go. I mean, he has not done that as yet. He's been, I give him a lot of credit. Hold this thought because I want to come back to it later. Okay. The Philly matchup for Brooklyn involves them slowing down Embiid,

which means DeAndre has to play. And again, I'm not convinced that DeAndre is a crunch time center on a team that wins the title. I think that could be a tough matchup. But really, the team they need to think about is the Lakers. Because the Lakers are going to be in the finals barring an injury. Right.

Lakers are far and away the best team right now. The team that we saw yesterday trying to defend Anthony Davis and LeBron James at the same time. It's just going to be a disaster. Yeah. Who guards?

Who guards? What do you do? Well, I guess Durant guards LeBron. Yeah, you can Durant. We've seen Durant do it. Oh,

Durant definitely guards LeBron, but who guards Davis? It's not going to be DeAndre Jordan. No, I don't think it. Well, you need like a three headed DeAndre Jordan. You need Jared Allen is who you need. But without Jared Allen, you don't have you don't have Harden. No, that's it. And I will say this about the Lakers, too. When you look at them as constituted, it's those two guys. And then so who's your third option? I still don't know this answer. For the Lakers? Yeah. Who's your third option? It seems like Schroeder's been

He's been really fun. been carrying himself like a third option. I don't know ultimately if that's his destiny, but I think he's been really good. I think he's been

their third best player. Yeah, he really has. They're definitely better. The Warriors game last night, you throw it out. The Warriors do that. And that happened in the first quarter.

I mean, they were losing that game like 33 to 14. And I was like, oh, I don't know. Why do I watch this game? And then all of a sudden it was 39 to 31. I mean, it's incredible, you know? But that's what they do. How many times have we seen a Steph team,

the game's over, they're down 12, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, and it's a tie game. Jerry West always talked about that. I talked to Jerry West about Steph Curry. He's like, the game with, with clay too. And of course,

clay's not even there, but he's like, the game is never, ever, ever over when they're on the court. And he's right. It's kind of fun. So,

so I'm throwing that game out. I still think the Lakers are the best team. I do too. The only way for Brooklyn to beat the Lakers in a series would literally be to, to just outscore them where it's just, they're just trading baskets and they're making more of them. Yeah, they could,

they absolutely could. Boy, wouldn't that be something? It'll be like 154 to 152 or something, which is fine, but I've just never seen anyone win a title that way. And I think that's the key point is, okay,

that's how they would have to beat them as presently constituted. We don't know what trades, what buyout guys, all that stuff. But as presently constituted, that's the only way they beat the Lakers is it's 140 to 136. And we've just never seen anyone in the title that way. Right. And well, except for in the ABA. But then the other thing is, if I'm the Brooklyn Nets, I don't want Kevin Durant having to guard LeBron James for 36 minutes a night in a series final. I don't like that. I don't want Kevin Durant having to guard LeBron James for 36 minutes a night in a

series final. I don't like that. I don't like that notion. I don't think it's good. It's a good plan physically for Kevin Durant. And again, I ask. Well, and that, but that's a really key point because he's coming off the most serious injury I feel like you can have as an athlete. And they're already putting a pretty big workload on him. He's doing a lot on both ends. He's been great, but we're 11 games in. No, that's it. So that's, that's the other reason if I'm Brooklyn, I have pause against the Lakers because LeBron, I still think at this point of his career, he like, you know, he doesn't take a ton of threes anymore, but you put him in the post, you know, he bull, he can

bull, bull over almost anybody. Right. Even Durant. Even Durant. Even Durant. Oh, yeah. So Clippers, I think they're fine. They match up okay with that,

barring some sort of trade. And then there's really nobody else. So really, the three teams, I think, I guess we'll throw in the Clippers just for the hell of it. So the four teams

they have to worry about are Milwaukee, Philly, Lakers, Clippers. I don't see how they could get, ever get stops against the Lakers. And maybe it doesn't matterakers, Clippers. I don't see how they could get ever get stops against the Lakers. And maybe it doesn't matter. It might not. I mean, they might decide that it doesn't because they don't have the, they don't have the personnel to do it. But I think to your point, I just don't think they're done Brooklyn and PJ Tucker's a good name. There'll be other

players. There always is. There are always players available as we get closer to, uh, I don't even know what is the tread daylight tread deadline. I thought they moved it. Didn't they move it to like March this year? Yeah. I think it's March. It was so hard to keep track. And, and things will happen.

And, you know, one thing, one thing they have that is kind of an amazing trade piece is Dinwiddie's contract, which is 11.5. He can't come back anyway. He's going to be a free agent. So it's basically, you have that as an expiring contract. Um, TLC is making 1.8.

Shamit's making two. Wow. Jeff Green's at 1.6. Basically they could add up, they could get into the mid whatever. But with the reason I bring up Dinwiddie is they could just, Tucker's making 8 million a year and they could easily do some sort of flip with Tucker and Tucker's, Tucker's going to end up on a contender.

The question is who's the contender. Yeah. He's, he's this year's Robert Covington, you know, Robert Covington was who everybody wanted. Tucker, I, I worry about him with mileage too. I mean, think of all the minutes he played at center last year. Good God, crazy, but he's a guy you want on your team. There'll be a lot of guys that'll be available i think like you know for your for your boston celtics they have that huge trade exception from gordon hayward and you know we keep saying aaron gordon at some point is aaron gordon actually available you know because the orlando they've got they lost they've lost markel now for the year. Isaac's out for the year. They're starting to slip a bit.

They can't score. And do they move on from Aaron Gordon, who really hasn't played that well this year? Actually, let's take a break, because this is a really good segue into the next topic I want to hit. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me.

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72 games, maybe less with the COVID stuff. Maybe teams end up 69, 70, somewhere in there. And you start thinking about, A a team like Miami they barely won Last night they're 5-7 There's There hits a point in the season where it's like Okay we can't fuck around anymore Like we can't be the 12th seed

There's two weeks of the season to go I'm not worried about them Yeah they have COVID issues I mean Jimmy Butler and Bam Have been out for COVID issues But there is going to be a point With one of these contenders whether it's worried about them. But they have COVID issues. I mean, Jimmy Butler and bam have been out for COVID. They'll be fine. Yeah. But there is a, there is going to be a point with one of these contenders,

whether it's new Orleans, Denver, Dallas, Dallas has been ravaged by injuries, COVID, all this stuff. One of these teams is going to be in like the 11th spot with two weeks to go going,

Holy shit. Like we're going to be in the play in tournament. This is, and we might not even have a home game. This is bad. But the thing I want to talk about was the concept of hopelessness right now. How many teams are hopeless if you look at the standings? Because right now Detroit is 3-10.

I would say they're hopeless. Minnesota is 3 and 10. I would say they're hopeless. Minnesota is three and nine, but the Warriors get their top three protected first round pick. Now you can't really guarantee you're going to be in the top three by tanking because they changed the tanking rules. So if I'm Minnesota, I like, let's start Detroit out to trade the, actually, you know what? Let's take this one at a time. Detroit is hopeless for a variety of reasons. One is that the Blake Griffin thing is really sad.

Oh, so awful. It's like over. Yeah. And I also like just, how do you like Christian Wood go? I mean, he's been great. Not good, great. Yeah. It feels like there was more there behind the scenes.

Yeah. Somebody is that happy to let a young guy go. And he had a lot of issues coming out of college. Who knows? There must have been some sort of thing. I agree with you. I couldn't believe. Why not just pay him if you're going to play Plumlee $25 million? But the Blake thing, it's sad. It reminded me of LJ and the Knicks near the end.

The guy that UNLV LJ was just this dynamo. Yeah, grandma mom. Yeah, and by the time he got to the Knicks, he was just basically a spot-up shooter and down low to the ground. And that's kind of what you see from Blake now, where he's just shooting threes. He's had, what, nine surgeries? And I was in the camp.

I would trade for him I this comeback year he's but really it's yeah no yeah it's so no way I don't think so no and and you know I remember talking to Dwayne Casey about it must have been last year I guess the idea or maybe two years ago when you know the idea of extending extending Blake's range that made sense for his inside game. But now that's not really why it is. Now it's just extending his range because he doesn't have the lift he needs to get things done. It actually made me feel old watching him in this respect. I remember the first year at Grantland, that was also the first year at Lob City. And I'd had the Clipper tickets forever.

And all of a sudden, and Blake, you could see the seeds because him and Baron Davis definitely had something the year before, but then Chris Paul shows up and he was just so fucking exciting. He was above everybody. A lot like what Zion's like now. And, and it doesn't seem that long ago,

you know, it was a long time, nine years ago, but it was a long, nine years ago. Like my, my daughter was six, that was a long time. Nine years ago. My daughter was six going to those games. Now she's 15. Anyway, Detroit's hopeless.

Minnesota is an interesting one. They're three and nine. They're in a brutal conference. They've had all kinds of issues. Towns has had the year from hell. It really has. Did you know that they have the worst point differential of anyone in the league?

Minus 10. That's not a good sign. No, it isn't at D'Angelo. It comes down to can D'Angelo Russell work. And so far, you know, can he give them what they want so far?

I'm not, I'm not sure that the ends, I mean, he's got to fill it up for him while Carl towns is out, but can he defend, you know, Ryan Saunders wants to build around defense and that's not happening. And,

you know, they just poor Carl Anthony towns. My goodness. It's just what a tragic, tragic story for him, his family, for everybody. And, you know, Anthony Edwards, he needs Carl out there to help him. You know, he needs Carl to like guide him. So I can't even, I don't think you can even make a judgment on him. Really? But the bummer for them, I don't think you can even make a judgment on him really.

Well, the bummer for them, I thought they should have taken Wiseman. Had they taken Wiseman, they have a lot of options with towns. Like to get like the, the next giant trade package. You just place them with Wiseman.

But now, now you don't have that luxury. I do like Edwards, but he shouldn't have been the first pick, but the, the, the conundrum for them is like, you can't tank. because it doesn't guarantee

you're keeping the pick anyway. Right, right, right. And if you're the Warriors, you're like, holy shit, this couldn't have worked out better. We traded a guy that didn't fit with us for any reason. We knew it immediately. We were able to spin him. We got Wiggins back who hit or miss whatever.

At least he's a body. Yeah, he's fine. He's been pretty good. And then this awesome pick. So I don't know what Minnesota does. The next team is Washington, which is three and eight. I thought Washington was going to be a playoff team. Westbrook. Why did you think that? Because I thought Westbrook and Beal combined were 55 a game. And I thought that could get an eight seat in the East. And I thought they had shooters. I thought Robin Lopez was going to be more important. I didn't realize the Scott Brooks thing had kind of gone past the point of no return. But the real problem is the Westbrook starting to look like one of those running backs where

it's like, oh God, that guy can't hit the hole anymore. What happened? And whether he's just past the point of no return athletically. So I would say Washington at three and eight, I wouldn't say they're hopeless yet, but I would say they're two weeks away. And if they're two weeks away, that opens the door for a Beal thing.

So if I'm Denver and Beal is the last giant trade piece, and I have the Michael Porter and a bunch of picks and the West, it's one move away from being a real contender. They, the there's only four contenders right now. Why wouldn't I Godfather offer for Beal from Denver? At least put Washington's feet to the fire and make them think about it. Oh,

don't you think they already have? They probably already have. I don't know that I'm, I'm speculating, but Denver's, you know, there, are they a game under 500? What's the record bill? I don't know. Denver is six and, they're, are they a game under 500?

What's the record bill? I don't know. Denver is six and seven. Yeah. So they're a game under 500. Porter hasn't played, you know, he got, he got knocked out for COVID protocol. Then he actually got COVID. So he's missed nine or 10 games and they miss him. Look, they, one of the reasons they didn't pay Jeremy Grant was because they're thinking down the road, we're going to have to pay Michael Porter Jr. someday because he's that good. And I just remember, you know, the thought with Denver was in this offseason, they had three bigs that were all free agents, Millsap, Plumlee and Grant. And their thought was, well, we got to keep, you know, we're going to lose one. We'll keep two of the three.

Well, they they lost Plumlee. and I know he's not a fan favorite because of some of the, you know, lapses that have happened with him, but he's a big body who fit into what they were trying to do defensively. And Denver, they've been horrible defensively. Jokic has been an MVP candidate. I mean, he's been incredible. Totally agree. Yeah, and Jamal is, I'm not surprised that

Jamal hasn't started out of the gate. I think you and I talked off the pod about this because if you go back and look at what he was doing, the amount of minutes he was playing, and by the way, through injuries, like two or three little injuries, that kid is so tough. He's going to play through everything. And he did. And I think to expect him to come back like that, like what was going on between him and Donovan Mitchell is crazy. And the truth is they didn't need that from him if Michael Porter Jr. got off to a great start. And now you've got your three. So I understand what you're saying about Beal because Beal's tremendous. He's leaving the league and scoring again.

But he might be one of the few people I would trade for if I were Denver because I still believe in Michael Porter Jr. I still think there's so much room for growth there. I think we barely saw it. Russell and I talked about Jamal Murray last week. I'm a little disappointed because I just think like Brandon Ingram made a big jump. Jalen Brown made a big jump.

We felt like Murray made the big jump in the playoffs, and now he's back to where he was 12 months ago, where he's like 19 a game. Yeah, but we're 11. I want him to be an elite guy, and I don't feel like he is. Well, but we're 11 games in. He's not shooting the ball great. If he starts to shoot the ball great, he's one of those guys

that so much is a rhythm shooter. If you go back and look at him, when he has a bad game, it's bad. When he's hitting it, he's hitting it. And so I think he's, you know, I don't know what he's shooting. I don't have it in front of me. I know he's not shooting well. And I think there's plenty of time for him to get into the room, to get, to get a little healthy. I mean, I'm not saying he's not, I'm not saying he's injured. I just think the wear and tear of what he did in that bubble. I think it's, you know, the, he's one of the guys that maybe that's fair. He's a little times.

Yeah. I mean, you know, so yeah, I'm not giving up on Denver. I don't think they're at the bill point yet because they need to see Porter with this whole thing. By the way,

by the way, they might be better off waiting a year because if we feel like the Lakers are prohibitive favorites in that, even if they traded for Bradley Beal, they're not going to have the firepower anyway. I'd rather play Porter for a whole year and make sure I'm not making a huge mistake trading him over whatever.

But I think it's a play. More hopeless teams. So I have Detroit, yes. Minnesota, yes, but I don't know their way out. You would say yes for Washington? You think they're hopeless? No, I don't think they're hopeless, but I guess, well, do I think they're going to make, I don't think they're hopeless, but I guess what,

well, do I think they're going to make the playoffs? They need to get to a 10 seed to get to the play-in tournament. So if I'm a Washington, whatever, I'm thinking, oh, we can get to the 10 seed. We just need to get healthy, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I think that's possible.

I'd say that that's still possible because you got some young players that are still developing there. Archimura, you know. Houston. Houston's 4-8. And as we saw yesterday, it's going to be Oladipo's going to try to get a max deal the rest of the way.

They have a weird team. They do have a weird team. I'm not really against it, but I feel like they're pretty hopeless. Even them getting to a 10 seed seems unrealistic to me. Well, I just, if I'm a Houston fan, I'm worried about John Wall's knee. Guy has a sore knee. He's out. How many, he's been out a few games. That, that to me was

a big red flag because he wants to be there. He bought in. He's, and you know, if Oladipo buys in, as you know, that's half the battle. Sometimes it's just getting everybody to believe that it can go on. And that's why Golden State's such a cool story because everybody wants to write them off once Clay went down, but they're just not having it. And maybe Houston could be that kind of team. Like, well, we're just not having that. We'll see.

So I'm not counting them out yet. There's an important Houston wrinkle. The Thunder have their pick. And they have the rights to swap that pick for either their own pick or the Miami Heat's pick, but the Rockets' pick is top four protected. Top four protected. It won't be top four, I don't think.

I don't think. It could be if the Rockets are like, you know what? We need to be in the top four. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Let's gut this thing. Well, then that follows suit with PJ this thing. Matt, well then,

that follows suit with PJ Tucker and other pieces moving along then. Right. Yeah. Sacramento is five and nine, but getting their ass kicked lately. They're minus 9.3. They score, but they can't stop anybody. They can't stop anybody.

So I don't know what they do. They can't trade Fox. They just sign him. They're not trading Hallibur do. They can't trade Fox. They just sign him. They're not trading Hal Burton. Barnes is a possibility for the Celtics trade exception. He is a possibility for the trade exception. Yeah. And he could,

you know, he's not your first option, probably not your second. Well, he wouldn't be, he'd be your fourth option on that team. I don't, I'm not going to say they're hopeless yet because I do like some of their

players and I would, I would think they would actually maybe dump Luke Walton before they, um, it's so early to, to call anybody DOA. You know, you haven't mentioned Cleveland. You haven't mentioned Cleveland yet. I'm about to get there. Oh, okay. I wanted to get to Toronto first though. Toronto's five and eight. Yeah. It's hard to watch. They're playing in Tampa. Yeah. I feel so bad for them. Think about them. They had to go a month early to the bubble. Now they're playing in Florida. And, you know, again, you talk about their free agents. They had a bunch of free agents. Vlam Vliet was a free Bach or Gasol because they were so much an integral part of their culture of the way they defend of their leadership all those things and it hurts my heart to watch Siakam struggle you know well so here's the thing I don't think they're a playoff team

I don't see a scenario where they get hot and it's like Raptors culture all that stuff I just think their bigs have gone south and Siakam's not the same guy that he was a year ago. And I think the league also kind of knows how to defend them. It reminds me a little of what happened to Antoine, 2003 range, where the league just kind of figured him out. We know Masai is ruthless. And if he just feels like it's not happening with this team, we had our run, we won the title. I wonder what he's capable of. And they have, they have the Lowry piece where, um, Lowry,

what does he have this year and next year? Yeah. And he, man, he plays so hard and there, there are numbers on and off with him are outrageous. They are so much worse off when he leaves the floor. He's just such a gamer. Any contending team should want Kyle Lowry. Well, I'm looking up his salary stuff here. So he's $30 million this year. And I think that's it. I don't think... Oh, he's up at the end of this year? Yeah, he's up at the end of this year. He's unrestricted.

Wow. Wow. Interesting. That's a pretty, pretty juicy trade piece for somebody. Now, it's hard to even fit the contracts to match $30 million. But if you're a team like Denver, you have the Gary Harris, you have some picks. You can add up the contracts and try to do it, basically. I don't know.

One of my takeaways is I think if this goes bad for like one more week, I think Messiah, we've seen him do it. He's not, he's if, if they have no chance, he's going to parlay whatever assets he has into whatever he can do going forward. And I think a week is,

is I think you have to be, I think you have to wait a little longer. How long? I do. I don't know. A month. What's it now? What are we in?

January? February? Wait one more month. I just don't think they have it. Well, I guess I think Siakam can, I think there may be some other things at work with Siakam that there was, you know, the residual from the bubble and some of the, you know, the personal struggles he had in the bubble, maybe that he's still straightening that out. I don't know. I just, I think the kid is young. He hasn't played a lot of basketball in his life. So maybe he is limited, as you say, maybe things have figured, teams have figured things out, but I think he has enough intelligence, enough, uh, skills set to reinvent himself.

Now, maybe it can't happen this year, but I just wouldn't give up on. Do you want to hear the case for Toronto? Okay. I can't wait. They lost to Golden State in Portland on the road, back to back on the last possession by a point. And if those possessions had gone their way, they would be on a six-game winning streak right now.

Yeah. He's a good coach. He's a good coach. To your point, it's like, yeah, let's wait a month and see what's going on. Yeah, I'm not ready to call him. I just don't trust Masai in the sense that I think he moves fast.

He's Danny H. He's like Danny H. He totally is Danny H. And then going through the rest of them, yeah, you mentioned Cleveland and teams like that. See, Cleveland, I wouldn't call them hopeless. Well, they might be hopeless for this year. I don't think they're a playoff team for this year.

But if you're Cleveland, what has your goal been? Your goal is to try to identify some young players that you can start thinking about building your team around. And they found them. And they found them. It's excellent. You know? And Jared Allen, who was the all-time hijacking.

They got him 20 cents on the dollar. So now you have something. Now, they're another team that I think they're one of the, like, they might be dead last in offense. They're the opposite. Like, they're a top. Let me. I think I wrote it down. Yeah.

They're number two in defensive efficiency behind the lakers how about that well no kevin love yet that'll that'll go down when kevin love comes back i mean and how many bigs do you need so they they can make you know they've got a plethora of big bodies they might make a move we i think you mentioned drummond before i don't know if in this nba who's going to take them on, even though, again, his numbers are like video game numbers. But the Cavs are dead last in offense. They haven't figured that out yet. And I think both Garland and Sexton have been out.

But if you're Cleveland, what you want to do is identify this core of players that you can go on with. And I think Okoro, I think they like what they see there. So maybe they're, you know, they're pleased with what this little nucleus they have. I mean, I guess not so much Kevin Porter, huh? No, it seems like Kevin's on his way up.

Yeah, he had a pretty decent year last year. I saw him in person in a game against the Celtics, and I thought he was fantastic. Yeah, he's got a lot of... Just as like, wow, I can't believe this guy seems like he's a lottery pick. But obviously, that's why he fell out of the lottery. Yeah. Just from the East teams,

before we get out of this, the fact that Chicago is 6-8 and lingering, Cleveland's 6-7, the Knicks are 7-8, it's all because of the COVID and how weird this is. The all-time weirdest record through 11 games, or 12 games,

whatever, is OKC, who is minus 6, but somehow 6-6 and has won a couple close games. And Presti's got to be like losing his mind.

I know, but I love that about them. I love it. They have some good guys. They do. Dort, Diallo, SGA. It's kind of hard for them not to be confident. Yeah. And you know, it's never good. So it's your GM's job to tank, not your coach and your players. I've always said that. The GM's job is to get rid of all

your great players and build up all the assets. And then you go to your team and you say, play your tails off and don't, and because it's not good for young players to think your team isn't winning. It's really bad for their psyche. So I love that OKC is doing that. You and I are aligned on that. Yeah, and Chicago, you know, Laurie Markkinen, playing pretty well. Wendell Carter Jr., playing pretty well. Zach Levine is Zach Levine.

He's a piece. He's the guy you want on your team. So I don't know. We'll see where they head up. And marketing would have been marketing would have been on my team three months ago if I was a GM. He was just sitting there waiting to be stolen. It's like, actually, let's let's take one more break. And I want to talk about this quick. Prime Big Deal Days is coming October 8th and 9th with exclusive savings just for Prime members. Involuntary deal squeals can happen, like the deal on new running shoes squeal, the deal on a new blender squeal,

or the infamous deal on a new massager squeal. Save big on electronics, fashion, and more this Prime Big Deal Days, October 8th and 9th. All right. Mention marketing. The concept of distressed assets. Marketing to me is somebody I really liked. I think he, you know, I don't want to compare him to Dirk, who's one of the 20 greatest players of all time, but there was some Dirkishness to him. His ability to handle the ball, to get a rebound and actually dribble down, pull up. He had kind of an arsenal,

and he was clearly just on the wrong team with the wrong coach. No real point guard. Got a couple injuries. No point guard to run high screens of them Stuff like that Right And I just I just would have tried to trade for him Like I actually thought

If the Warriors If there was any trade For them to make last year If they could have done Two for four in marketing I actually would have done that As much as I liked Wiseman Because I feel like they

Four in marketing Huh They still could have gotten A good player at four Because they could have taken Halliburton at four And they would have Marked in and Halliburton Halliburton's. But marketing was sitting there and now people are like, Oh,

marketing, he's good again. And it was like, no, he was like, it was situation. Yeah. So who is the next guy like that? I think it's Marvin Bagley. I'm still, I'm still in the potential of Marvin Bagley. He's on a weird team. He is. He's had dumb injuries. He only played 13 games last year. Doesn't seem to click with his teammate. I think his dad's He is. He's had dumb injuries. He only played 13 games last year. Doesn't seem to click with his teammate. I think his dad's a handful. There's a whole bunch of reasons why. I didn't know that.

Yeah, I didn't know that. I think there's a whole bunch of reasons you could get him for 50 cents in the dollar in about a month. So where are you putting him? I was thinking for the Celtics. That's why I was getting excited. Seven quarters for a dollar trade.

We have all the quarters. We just need another dollar. Yeah, there you go. Or a team like Detroit or, you know, these teams that aren't going anywhere where it's like just change the scenery and we'll trade some assets for them. OKC even.

And I think that's true with so many of these guys that if you, you know, 90% of the NBA players fit is everything. You know, the 10 of the NBA players fit is everything. You know, the 10%, the LeBrons and all those guys, they can go anywhere and fit in seamlessly. And, you know, Jimmy Butler can go to Miami and fit in seamlessly. But the rest of the guys, you need the right coach, the right team, the right system to some degree.

Although I think the game is so much more freewheeling now. And I really think that matters a ton. And so you put Marvin Bagley somewhere else, he might be great. And sometimes it works the other way around. You know, I mean, Evan Turner was one of those guys. Like, I always liked the way Evan Turner played. But, you know, clearly him and Doug Collins, that wasn't a good fit, you know. And so he went from these teams to teams.

You're like, yeah, this is a good place for Evan Turner. And then, oh, wait, that's not such a good place for Evan Turner. Portland really didn't work out for instance. And I think that's just true with a lot of players. It, you need to, first of all, you always need your coach, the coach to believe in you and not to come in with any pre notions about what you can or can't do. Rashad Holmes was like that for me for a couple years I always liked him Celtics Sixers playoffs series I was so relieved he didn't play Because I felt like he was a terrible matchup for the Celtics Brett Brown never saw it

New Orleans has a couple guys New Orleans I can't understand They're hard for me to figure out What's happening there Do their pieces fit? No Their pieces don't fit. That's it, right?

Yeah. Well, and there's a Stan angle too. Like as Stan, the last time Stan had real success was 10 years ago. I'm a Stan fan, man. No, I know. But we haven't seen him in 10 years. Yeah, but he just, but the thing that he's always done that he did 10 years ago, and I'm sure he's doing now, is he just tells it like it is.

But is that a good thing in the NBA in 2021 when everybody's so freaking sensitive? It should be. And especially when you got guys like Redick in the locker room

backing you up, hopefully. I'm assuming. If he's yanking Redick's minutes around all year, I don't know how long he's going to back him up. Yeah, that's true.

Fair thing. It's a really weird team because... Yeah, they should be better, I feel. Yeah, but should they? Like, I look at weird team because they should be better, I feel. Yeah, but should they? I look at their team and they're playing Adams and Zion and Brandon Ingram are all over 30 minutes a game.

And I just don't feel like those three guys should be playing together. Doesn't make sense to me. It's a weird front line for the way the NBA is now where you need to you know, you just don't want three bigger guys altogether. I don't get it. And Adams, I love.

I love the way he was in OKC. He seems to me like to be a great teammate. Plays so hard. He does all the stuff you want, except for does any team really want it anymore? It goes back to that old story. 18 million a year. You don't want it. No, that's what I mean.

That extension I thought was perplexing. I didn't get it. Yeah. Different. you don't want it. No, that's what I mean. That extension I thought was perplexing. I didn't get it. Yeah. And then they have the Bledsoe who's like the Yankee Christmas swap gift. Where it's like,

you know, that dude. And then Lonzo, who the hell knows. I've changed my opinion on him a hundred times. Well, I just want him to stay healthy

so you can get a good long look at him. Because sometimes you look at, you watch him over an extended stretch and you go, yeah, this is, this works. I can see it, you know. I feel like we're moving closer and closer to my dream of Lonzo and LaMelo on the same team.

Really? There's some sort of, could there be like a Rozier, Lonzo, some sort of something? I wouldn't do that if I was Charlotte. Rozier's playing really well. I know. But the sexiness of the Ball Brothers, if you're Charlotte, just trying to sell tickets. Maybe.

And certainly Jordan would, you know, Jordan knows about all that. But Charlotte's been kind of a funny team. I mean, they've had some injuries too, I guess. But, you know, Rozier's played really well. Because he's another perfect example of you've got to put them in the right spot to succeed. And I think they've done that down there. You know, there's a lot of what ifs from the Celtics over the last few years,

the way they handled the Rozier thing, pretty much the whole way is a pretty big what if, because you could argue they should have traded them even before we went into that Kyrie season. You could also argue if the Kyrie trade never happens, he has a really good season for them and maybe has even more value coming out of that. Maybe he's still on the team, but certainly you might rather want him at 19 million than Kemba with a bad knee at 30.

Yeah, Rozier, especially near the end, he gave me that great quote. He said, uh, I feel like I went from being in the front seat to the passenger in the back, you know, because that's really what happened to him. And he just couldn't reconcile it. He just couldn't, it couldn't manage it. And I think it, you know, it caused some problems in that locker room. There's no question about that because he wasn't the only one that felt that way. You know, those guys just all wanted more. They were all chafing for more. And so I don't think,

I thought they were going to trade him at that deadline the year before, you know, right before we should have, that's when they should have that's. And I don't think that's revisionist history on any of our parts. I think it just made sense to let him go and, but they valued him. You know, they did value him. The Kyrie trade's a pretty great what if for the Celtics. Because if it doesn't happen, if they go into that 2017-18 season,

they have Hayward and Horford. But they have Isaiah Thomas. They have Tatum and Brown. They have Isaiah coming off some sort of hip thing that we don't know if he'd come back mid-season. I don't think he's the same guy, probably. Probably not. Because I think he would have the same issues. But they have Rozier.

They have that eight, that what ended up being the eighth pick, which would have been really important trade bait for that year, yeah, or whoever. And how it played out, I think, was not ideal. No, but if I were Danny Ainge, I think was not ideal. No, but, but if I, if I were Danny Ainge and if I were the Celtics,

I'd do it every time. Do it every single time. Every time. Every single time. Yeah. I mean, he's, Kyrie's just,

he's complicated, man, but he can play. He can play. Um, Russo and I always do this, the top five guys, but there's more than top five.

If you were going to say the elite, the elite top group. Yep. I have space like this. LeBron, Giannis, Luca, slight drop off.

Okay. Davis, Kawhi, Katie, Jokic, Curry, Harden, tweak of a drop off to Dame and Joel

You could argue we have 11 top 5 guys First question, would you put Dame and Joel with the other 9? I would, and I might even put Dame a little higher I'm a huge Dame Lillard fan Me too And again, if you put him on some of these other teams, he'd be even better than he is. Although, CJ McCollum, poor guy, before he

got hurt, he had made 63 threes before he got hurt. 63. That's, I think, nine more than anybody else. That's a lot. He was really shooting the lights out of the ball. I'm a big Dame fan.

So we have 11 top five guys now. Because when you say, oh, he's a top five guy. Yeah, I hate that. You used to be able to say that in the old days. I never say it because I don't. Because then, you know, my son always plays this game. And I go, well, those guys. And he goes, yeah, but you forgot.

You know, and I'm like, oh, you're right. I did. So what about Jason Tatum? Next level down? You can't give it to him, but you forgot, you know? And I'm like, Oh, you're right. I did. So, uh, what about Jason Tatum? Next, next level down. You can't give it to him. Next level down.

Yeah. I think, I think to be a top, top guy, there's a consistency that goes with that. Yeah. And he isn't there yet. Yeah.

Fair. It's like, if you're just on TNT, I know he's going to put up 26, 12 and 15. He just is. Um, but yeah,

I mean, you think like LeBron, Giannis, Luka, Davis, Kawhi, Durant, Jokic, Curry, Harden, Dame, Joel, just those top 11. That's as deep as anything we've had since the early 90s when you were covering, I don't know if you were the Globe or Sports Illustrated at that point, but when we had the Jordan class and all those guys, but then we had the new wave of guys too.

And then all of a sudden they kind of all collided. And everybody had an awesome guy. And that was when the league was really fun. So I'm hoping maybe that'll be the case again.

The fact that the Warriors are fun again, I think it's been a huge asset. Oh, I think everybody wanted that. And Steph, Steph's the most lovable superstar maybe ever. He just,

no one gets mad at Steph. No one dislikes Steph. It's funny. He's, Steph's the most lovable superstar maybe ever. He just, no one gets mad at Steph. No one dislikes Steph. It's funny. He's, uh, cause he, and I know there's one person that dislikes him. Who's that? LeBron. Oh, well, but he doesn't say, I mean, I don't know. Has he ever said that? It's a read between the lines. I think the two MVPs thing really, Oh yeah. Yeah. No, of course. And there's definitely, there's, there's, there's, there's an iciness with them.

I saw it in person in one of the finals games when they really went at it. Yeah. It was game one of 2018 where it looked like LeBron was going to deck them. Yeah. I like that though about LeBron. Me too. I like the fact that like, I didn't love like the first thing LeBron said when Marc Gasol came to the

layers was you stole my defense player of the year where I didn't love that, but you know, welcome to the team. You stole my defensive player. Yeah. It's the first thing he said to him. Wow. It should have won that year. I feel like I voted for Marc Gasol that year. I did too. I did too. No, it's just, that's how LeBron rolls it's okay with me I mean Curry I think is just such a phenomenon still because every young kid boy or girl looks at him and says

I can be him he's not super tall super big he shoots like crazy but that's if I work on that I can be him and I think that's

one of the reasons also because he's so gracious to everybody too but you know what's funny is the way that he's being defended now, it's like watching a girls' high school basketball game

where there's one good girl on the point guard. And they do the 3-2 where they put the three people basically at midcourt to make her get rid of the ball. Right. Because they don't want her to have it over midcourt basically. And the NBA teams are kind of doing variations that were curry where they're just sending multiple people at them at midcourt. This And that's, the NBA teams are kind of doing variations that with Curry where they're just sending multiple people at him

at midcourt. This happened to Dame last year too. Yeah. He's like, just get rid of the ball. We don't want you to have the ball. Right. But I think what happens

with those guys, and like the game last night, Curry, he started off shooting the ball poorly. But you just know over time, a guy like him is going to find a way

to get open. He's going to find his rhythm and you can throw. And then once he gets there, you can throw as many guys as you want. It's not going to matter. Yeah. All right. It was good to see you. He's going to find his rhythm. And then once he gets there, you can throw as many guys as you want. It's not going to matter. It's good to see you. Thank you, Bill.

Do you have a prediction for the next two weeks? Give me one prediction. Trade, dissension, anything. Well, just for fun, because you mentioned him, let's say Harrison Barnes is on the move. Why not? Let's start a rumor. That's all it is.

Well, it's your fantasy, so sure, we'll send him to the Celtics. You know why it's my fantasy? Because I can't watch Semi-Augilé airball another three. I'm done. I'm at capacity. Everybody's so down on Semi-Augilé. You know, it's funny. The late, great Tommy Heinsohn, who loved everyone.

Like, the one guy he just couldn't quite give his love to was Shemmy Ojole. Isn't that funny? It's the, it's the wide open threes from the corner that dunked it in. Then Neesmith, who this was the only thing he was supposed to be able to do every time he shoots one, he looks terrified. Well, cause he's not ready. You know, he's it's, it's some kids come in like Pritchard's been a revelation, right? I mean, he's been what you thought Neesmith was going to be. So these kids, they all have to do it in their own time. They needed to come out of one of the last two drafts with a swing guy who

could play 20 minutes a game. They got him. Pritchard. Oh, yeah. Pritchard. He's a bench guy, but not a swing guy.

They needed somebody who like when Tatum or Brown is not in the game, who could carry those minutes and they don't have it. Oh yeah. They still. So that, I think that's the trade piece, whatever it is. All right, Jackie, good to see you. All right. Thanks Bill. See you guys. What's the feeling of fall? It's finally catching the sunrise and not because you woke up early.

No, you woke up nice and late and you know what? The sun waited. Then you went and got what you love from Starbucks. The new pecan crunch oat latte and new baked apple croissant. And enjoyed that warm apple filling and those nutty flavors with rich brown buttery notes. While the sun rose. Just for you. That's the feeling of fall. And it's only at Starbucks. This episode is brought to you by Coca-Cola Creations.

You love the taste of Coca-Cola and love the cookie crunch of Oreos. But what happens when the best drink and the best cookie in the world get together? The best becomes besties. Try the new Coca-Cola Zero Sugar Oreo Limited Edition. Besties for a limited time. Taste it while it lasts. Copyright 2024. The Coca-Cola Company. Copyright 2024. All right, Nora Princiati is here from The Ringer. You can hear her on The Ringer NFL show. She's been doing live podcasts after the Sunday night games,

which were really fun the last two rounds. But you're also based in Boston, and you covered the Patriots once upon a time. Tom Brady is now two wins away for the Super Bowl. What is the mood on the cold, COVID-y streets of Boston right now? What is the mood? A lot of conflicted feelings, I think.

And I think there's some people who have been all in from the beginning and are happy to have someone else to root for in a bad Patriots year and feel like Brady's been a part of their lives for a long time and they want to see him win. And they're happy to have a rooting interest in a conference championship game. And then I think there's some bitterness and maybe a little bit of ugliness. The thing that's caught my attention is that Bruce Arians, I think, is really influencing the way people are feeling. And it's one of two ways. I think some people would like to root for the Bucks and would like to root for Brady and just really don't like Bruce Arians and are having trouble coming to terms with

rooting for Brady means rooting for, for BA. And then I think some people, uh, there's a little bit of scapegoating where maybe they want to say that they would be rooting for Brady, but they don't, they don't feel it in their heart and they're looking for a reason. And the reason that I think is being settled upon in a lot of cases is, well, the coach just isn't very good and it's an undisciplined team. And he says all these mean things about new England and I just don't like him and it's just making it hard for me. And it's a little bit of the spurned lover thing. Uh, but so I think, I think a lot of mixed feelings. But overall, I do think more people that I've talked to are excited about it and just excited to have someone that they're pulling for

than not. But it's pretty split. So when I was in Boston in the late 90s, when Jerry Callahan named Boston Losertown, because we were on this unbelievable stretch of just losing. And then Ray Bork got traded to Colorado. And then the Bruins fans and the Boston fans were rooting for Bork to finally get a Stanley Cup because it wasn't going to happen with the Bruins because they were too cheap. They screwed things up. They missed their window, all that stuff. And then I was actually at a bar in Cambridge watching him win the Stanley Cup.

And it was, people were really happy for him. The difference is, it was kind of like by proxy. We were like, we love this guy, but we're kind of winning a little bit too. The Brady thing is so different because Boston's won so many titles. He won six with the Pats. So there's no proxy element at all. It all comes down to do, do I appreciate what this guy did for me? And am I bitter at all about how he left? And I have changed my mind on this a thousand times because part of me is a little bitter. And I do feel like he wasn't 100% in on last year's team and situation and

knew he was leaving and went to this, you know, the second wife is just, he has a much bigger house. They have all these toys. They have such a fun life. And his life with us near the end was like, it was a crappy house. The toilet didn't work. There was just a lot of arguing and bitterness. And I'm mad at him because his team is better, which is a dumb reason to be mad at somebody. So I don't even know why I have any opinion other than good luck, Tom Brady. I'm happy for you.

I don't know why I can't get there. To use your analogy, though, I think the people who are having fun rooting for him, it's a little bit like, okay, yeah, maybe you've got a new girlfriend and maybe it didn't work out between us forever and ever and ever. But like, we've got kids, we've got six Super Bowls,

we've got the whole history. You will never be rid of me. Like, you are gonna go into the Hall of Fame and guess what? We're not gonna be talking about Tampa Bay very much. We're going to be talking about the, the main course of your romantic life was right here, buddy. So go have fun. And the second chapter is not going to be anywhere near as long as the first. So I think the people who are sort of secure in it feel that way. But there's also this like,

oh, you're riding off into the sunset and this one's so much more fun. And Gronk too is talking all about like, oh, freedom. I feel so free. And the coaching is different here. And that's a little bit of twisting of the knife, I think. I like how you say that each Super Bowl is a kid.

That's a good way to think about it. They're like children, right? Our six kids with Brady at Super Bowl and Belichick's like the ex-wife, basically. And everybody gets along. The Patriots are never going to be out of his life, right? Like he cannot escape them. No. Well, here's the thing.

I never thought they would actually win the Super Bowl. So I never really allowed myself to think about, oh shit, like he might be on the podium wearing the Bucks Super Bowl champion hat and it'll be like number seven and it opens up this whole can of worms for, then we have to have the whole, who was more important, Brady Belichick, all that's that conversation, which I hate because I feel like they were both so integral to each other. But as we get closer, I realized like, because I'm selfish and I'm an only child, the best case scenario is him actually losing in the Superbowl with the Bucs or losing next round where he, he got there. He was a contender. It was fun. He still has it,

but he didn't actually win. And all his Superbowls would be with New England. That's just me as a selfish person rooting that for the outcome. But what I'm going to do is I'm going to bet on the Bucks each round. So if he wins, I win money on it. And that's how I'm going to play it. I think this is totally rooted in having watched the Brady Patriots

for a long time. I understood why it made perfect logical sense that the Saints were favored in that game. Great defense, much better coaching. They'd smoked him earlier in the season. They'd beaten them twice. In my heart, the idea that the Saints were favored to win that game was ridiculous. Just ridiculous.

And part of it was because Brady had been playing much better quarterback in the last month of the season than Breeze was. And it was pretty obvious that breeze just didn't have it anymore. But still the idea that there was a chance that the saints were going to find a way to win that game to me just felt so fundamentally wrong. And I would see all these people talking about it and kind of check myself and go, is this, is this a little bit of bias? But I think like, he's just, he's, he's who he is. Like it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. I think you're right about them losing

in the super bowl being the best thing for the all important Patriots fan perspective on how this works out. The funny thing is I think like looking at all the old quarterbacks or in the NFC playoffs, Brady, I think had the most to lose, but in some ways the least to game, because even if they win the Superbowl, it's going to be the whole Brady Belichick thing. And that'll do a few news cycles and whatever. and people use it as a talking point. But is that really going to change? Like he's already the goat, right? Like is another Superbowl, it'll be a referendum on the decision to switch teams, but I don't know that it would be a referendum on Tom Brady as a quarterback. Well, it helps the goat case though. It just adds one more. Does the goat case need help? Like isn't the goat case kind of case closed?

See, this is where, because I'm older than you, this is how we felt with Jordan at the end of the 90s. The Jordan thing ended and we were like, it's over. We're never going to talk about this again. This is the best basketball player I've ever seen. And then the LeBron thing gained a little steam. And then LeBron won in 2016 and it got reopened. And all the people who were like, no, we already decided this isn't, we're not arguing about this anymore. Jordan's the goat. And then we had to deal with this

because the younger generation who didn't see LeBron or who didn't see Jordan was basically like LeBron is our guy. LeBron is the one. This is, and the one. And then it became a whole thing. So fast forward to 2021, you can't tell me Brady's always going to be the GOAT because the younger generation might decide, oh, Justin Herbert's won four Super Bowls with the Chargers and threw for 5,000 every year. He's the GOAT.

And then we have to litigate this. So if he does get the seventh Super Bowl, you know, first of all, that, that really would be incredible. And I'd have to, I guess I'd have to sort through my feelings about it because in a way we always, the Pats fans were defending Brady versus Manning. Remember forever, Brady's better, Brady's better. And then Brady finally cements it with the three Superbowls. So to have more ammo against Brady versus Man Manny Brady against everybody I would like, but at the same time, it would just be weird. I really would have trouble wrapping my head around it.

I don't know. Can you tell I'm tormented? This is what I'm talking about with the conflicting feelings. I think it's, it's pulling people. It is ripping these poor Patriots fans apart. They've just been through so much. But the thing that I think about is that for, for Brady, okay. So he could put some more distance between him and Manning and solidify the goat case in case we're talking about Justin Herbert as the goat and 15 years or whatever. Uh, what a world. But Brady having seven instead of six and Aaron Rodgers having two instead of one. My argument is that that's a bigger deal for Rodgers

than it is for Brady. 100% agree. I think this would be the most meaningful out of anybody who's left. Josh Allen has a whole career ahead of him. This could be Rodgers. Yeah, Rodgers, this could be his best chance. He's 37. Who knows?

Oh, I like that your dog's joining us here. Yeah, I was going to say this before I started recording. I was like, Gracie, do you want to go somewhere else? And she declined. So we've got a buddy. The Rodgers piece. Oh, wait a second. On the

Saints-Bucks game, you were saying how you couldn't believe the Saints were favored, all that stuff. On the, uh, on the saints bucks game, you were saying how you couldn't believe the saints were favored, all that stuff. I felt, I was surprised that the line didn't drop when Taysom Hill went out because I did think he was important for those seven to 10 plays. I thought it would go to like saints by two and a half, but that said, and Sal and I did a bad job not talking about this on Sunday night. And I'm sure you covered it on your pod, the Jared cook fumble. So the saints are over midfield. They're up seven. They have momentum and that Jared cook fumble changes the game as they were driving down the field. I didn't feel as comfortable with my, Oh, the bucks. I

really think the bucks can win this. I was actually pretty nervous because Brady hadn't looked that good. He hadn't connected on any long passes. And I think if they had gone down 10, I'm not sure they could have been able to come back from that. This is why football is such a frustrating sport to bet on, to follow, to root for. It really sometimes can come down to one play. Cook fumble happens, boom, momentum shift, breeze falls apart, it's over. Even if they just get a field goal out of that drive, I'm not positive the Bucs could have done two touchdowns in a row down the stretch, just the way they're playing.

I didn't feel like they were that, if they're, they're kind of get it done barely, but to put together two TD drives, I don't know. Every touchdown drive they had was off a short field was off of the turnovers. So if you take away the turnovers,

then they would have had a really tough time winning that game because every long drive that they put together, they stalled in the red zone and settled for a field goal. Thing is that's where breeze was at this point. So this, if this is the Brady breeze game, then the reason that the saints beat them twice in the regular season is that Brady threw, I think, five of the interceptions he had this season against the Saints. And the fact that that flipped, which is so Brady, right? Like if, if all he needs to do in a playoff game is just play mistake free, that's what he's going to do. And that's what he did. And every time the Saints turned it over, they ended up scoring a touchdown. So there's totally a world when we spend all this time

talking about, Oh, yippee, we get to see Tom Brady and Drew Brees play a playoff game. This is going to be awesome. And then if the Saints don't get those long returns and short fields and the Bucks don't get the short fields off of turnovers, this is like a 17 to 10, just like really snooze fest game and it's like Brady and Breeze are on the field with Breeze's kids after the game and we're all just sort of not not saying the thing which was uh this game sucked those guys looked bad but

yeah don't you feel like all that ends well I guess don't you feel like the Saints lost that game way more than the Bucs won it that was that was I was thinking about it that night was driving somewhere afterwards and I was thinking I was lucky to win my Bucs won it. That was, that was, I was thinking about it that night. I was driving somewhere afterwards and I was thinking I was lucky to win my Bucs bet because I felt lucky after.

And it was basically, the Saints were so much worse than the Bucs that that's why the Bucs won. The Bucs, you know, the four net piece was fun. I think he, I think he was good. Their defense made a couple timely plays when they needed to.

But for the most part. And they were smart, right? plays when they needed to. But for the most part, they were smart, right? Like all they needed to do was just recognize that the Saints were not going to be pushing the ball more than like 15 air yards down the field ever. So every blade of grass is not in play here. But why did that take two hours, though? Why didn't they realize that in the first quarter?

Didn't they? I knew that. I watched games at home. They were they were pressing up on them a little bit, but yeah, I mean, I think they were, the, the bucks were very frustrating on the offensive side, I think, because they'd been really making some changes that I had bought into in the last month of the season since their buy was in week 13. And since then there were just these little flickers of, okay, they are bending to what Brady is most comfortable running a little bit more, like a little bit more motion, a little bit more play action using a little bit more 12. And then all of a sudden it's just like, oh, first down run, first down run, first down run. Oh, it's third and one.

We're going to try to throw it deep. And it was just like, why are we doing this again? But with the touch pass to Gronk, the 30 yards lob pass where Gronk always goes off his fingers. We've seen that one enough. Although, so Kevin, when we were doing the live post game show, Kevin was saying he couldn't believe that Gronk didn't catch that. And how I felt was, do you know why he didn't catch that?

It's because he's going to catch it in the Super Bowl. Oh, I like that one. So you're not worried about Packers. You're not worried about warm weather bucks and cold weather Lambo. Like even Brady. I'm totally kidding. I don't, I, I absolutely. No, no, I'm changing topics.

Warm weather bucks, cold weather Lambo, Brady, whose blood is now a little thinner because he's been in Florida. It happens. It happened to me when I moved to California. So I'm less worried about it because it's the day game. So at least it'll be sunny. It's going to be cold, but it'll worried about it because it's the day game. So at least it'll be sunny. It's going to be cold, but it'll be sunny. And it's not that, I mean, you know what that's like as soon as the it's dark out and just mentally everything feels so much worse and colder.

So I, I think they'll be okay. I think Brady will get it back. I also think it would worry me if it was going to be super windy and sleeting and gross, but they heat the sidelines. Like, it's just going to be cold. It's just going to be a low temperature thing. So the difference to me between Tampa and Buffalo, who's in a similar situation.

Sure. I don't feel like Buffalo. I think Buffalo might be the best team And I felt that way Going into the playoffs That we have I don't feel like They played well

In either In either game Which I was fine with It was one of the reasons I picked them last week Because I thought people Got too thrown off By the Colts game

The Colts played really well And then last week Allen didn't play well In the first half Like he missed They had perfect plays And he just missed dudes And it was windy

And all that stuff. So I feel, I still feel like they have an awesome game in them and it could happen this week. I look at the Bucs and I'm like, that's just kind of who they were

in that, in that Saints game. They're going to miss some open chances. They're going to have some frustrating third and ones. They might have a dumb penalty. But for the most part,

they're going to be a little bit of a rollercoaster ride. And I guess my question with them and Lambeau is just, can you be a rollercoaster ride and actually win in Lambeau? Because Rodgers isn't going to help them. Rodgers isn't going to throw them two picks. They're not going to get turnovers the way they're able to get against Saints. So can they not be the rollercoaster ride in Lambeau?

Can they just play a start to finish really good game where they don't shoot themselves in the foot? And that's my fear with picking them. I'm not sure they can. I'm not sure they can either, especially because I they're, and they were last week and it was fine, but they're going to be at another coaching disadvantage, I think. And that's where I get the heebie-jeebies about, you know, you can look at it and think, okay, say they get down a score and then the Packers, like we've seen this movie before, right? On defense, they start just playing a little bit too soft, opening the door. And then Brady does Brady stuff. And all of a sudden it's the fourth quarter and he has an opportunity for a game winning

drive and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I just don't feel confident that given the roller coaster of having really good players and then just making ridiculous, dumb decisions, particularly in terms of how they function on offense. Yeah. I don't trust them. I trust, I trust the personnel. I don't trust the coaching really.

Ironically, the way they win is an awesome Brady game. He can't play the way he did last week. But if he was like lights out in this game, I think they could win.

He'd have to be lights out. I think that's how they win. It would have to be a classic old school Tom Brady locked in from game, I think they could win. He'd have to be lights out. I think that's how they win. It would have to be a classic old school Tom Brady locked in from the like with the 04 title game against Pittsburgh. One of those like, oh, he's got it today. Uh-oh.

Tom Brady throwing BBs. It's hard to rule that out, right? Hard to rule that out. All right. We're going to take a break and talk about more important stuff like The Bachelor. Let's take a break to talk about FanDuel. I am so pumped for the Conor McGregor-Dustin Poirier matchup. On Saturday, it's a rematch.

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$5 into $125. I would just go with the favorite. I'd go with McGregor. FanDuel, we did on Million Dollar Picks last week. We had Kelsey to get over 100 yards with the Chiefs to win was plus 196. We hit that one. You can hit bets like that all the time on FanDuel sports book app. Use promo code BS to unlock 25 to one odds FanDuel sports book. Promo code BS. You must be 21 plus present in Jersey, Pennsylvania,

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$125 minimum $10. $10 first deposit required. Restrictions apply. See full terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. All right, we're going to talk Bachelor. Before we do that, the Deshaun Watson thing I'm just fascinated by.

Sal and I talked about a little on Sunday night how it's clear if he does get traded, it's Jets or Dolphins, just because I think they have the trump cards. The Jets have the second pick in the draft plus whatever else. The Dolphins have the two and the number four and the number 17 plus whatever else. I don't think anyone can compete with either of those offers how it goes. Most people seem to feel like he's done and that there's been too much damage.

And this is a little different than like the James Harden situation. This is like, this team is incredibly poorly run. They've handled things wrong with him over and over again. They've not treated him like a superstar. They give no input on anything. The Hopkins trade was indefensible. And it's just, they're, they're a train wreck. They're, they're the number one train wreck franchise somehow surpassing Washington, which I thought was

impossible. But if you're, if you're putting all the franchises side by side, they're the number one train wreck right now. And I hope he gets traded. Cause I like watching him. Uh, what do you, what Intel do you have on all this stuff? Well, so it's funny to watch because my probably my biggest story when I was at the Globe was being involved in the story of when Easterby, when Jack Easterby, the character coach, he didn't really quit per se. It was more that his contract was expiring and he told the Patriots, I'm not coming back. And it's just been really fascinating to watch this because at that time they wanted him to come back. And I think that was the beginning of some real deterioration of that relationship. But when he was in the role that he was hired to be in, which was before he went on this, wasn't entirely before he'd started laying the groundwork for this accrual of power and to be a personnel guy in the NFL, which just came completely out of left field. But when he was in his role as character coach, team chaplain, mentor, confidant to a lot of those players, he did really well. Like everybody there really,

really, really liked him. And then somewhere down the line, and it was completely, it still is frankly, inexplicable to me where this came from. He hires Bob Lamont, who's a really high powered coaching and executive agent. And all of a sudden he wants to be a personnel guy. And I think this, if you're Bill Belichick, that's just not how you do things. I mean, Bill wants to see the guy who was grinding tape and was an area scout for five years and works his way up the chain and blah, blah,

blah, blah, blah. And that's how they've done a lot of things. And so then this guy who had a really good reputation in the role that he was in all of a sudden is like, I want to be a personnel executive. And it's just like, well, that's not going to happen. And so then all of a sudden, just to see how it's like Chris Harrison, Chris Harrison hosting the nightly news for ABC. Right. So wait a second. You're the bachelor host. Chris Harrison calls like, you know, the head honchos there and goes, hey, so just FYI, like my contract's coming up pretty soon and things are great.

Love the job. Love the organization. Just want to flag this for you. I would really like to become a news anchor. I would like to be doing political news. I want to do the ABC World Report, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And on the other end of the phone, they're just like, uh, so that's not going to happen. But then to extend this metaphor, then Chris Harrison, I don't know, goes,

Chris Harrison jumps to Siesta Key and then just absolutely blows up Siesta Key as a television show. Oh, that, my daughter would be furious. My daughter would be

absolutely furious if that happened. I'll just tell you. Yeah, the whole Easterby thing reminds me of stuff that used to happen in the NBA

in like the 70s when somebody would become a GM because he was the radio announcer and got along with the owner. And they're like, hey, why don't you be the GM? And then all of a sudden the radio announcer was the GM. This doesn't happen in 2020. I don't understand how a team chaplain becomes the most powerful person on the Texans. And there was stuff over the weekend about how he might sue SI for that takedown piece they wrote about his-

Or he said he was thinking of it. Right, that he might- He told people. There are rumors. All I know is Jenny Vrentis was one of the people that wrote that story, and she's great. And I'm going to believe her every time over the team chaplain who became the GM and it seems like he's on a power trip.

But the whole thing is nuts and I hope they trade him and it would be really fun if he was on Miami or the jets over this really fucked up team that has no draft picks this year because they traded all of them. Then they fired the coach. They're just going to waste Deshaun Watson seasons. What would be a more fun team for you, Miami or the Jets, if you could pick one? I think Miami. Me too. Because they wouldn't be quite so. So the thing that he probably, and this isn't the worst thing in the world, but the thing that he probably should

try to avoid is basically going somewhere and putting them in the same situation, which is not his fault at all, but putting them in the same situation that the Texans are in, which is having absolutely no draft capital. But since Miami already has a lot of the Texans old draft capital, they can just like kind of give it back and they wouldn't be so hamstrung in terms of what they can add going forward. I mean, that's not the best offensive line. I think theoretically New York, if they fixed quarterback, not by going through the draft, um, and they'd probably have to give up their, they'd certainly have to give up their top pick. So that's going to take them out of the running for someone like Penesol, but they still have some really high quality pieces on the

offensive line. So there's at least more potential for that to be really, really good for the protection to be really, really good there. But you know, there's the tax benefit to being in Florida too. So I feel like that's more logical. Yeah, that'd be more fun. I guess if I'm looking at it from Houston and God knows how they would even look at this because they have a team chaplain running the team.

I guess it comes down to how much you like Fields. And if you think Fields is like a Herbert level talent that you can build your whole franchise around and we'll make the fans you have right now, hate you that you're trading Deshaun Watson is by the owners, jerseys, all that stuff. And Fields can come in and just kind of be the guy right away versus rolling

the dice with Tua, who really sucked the last four or five weeks of the year. Like he just did. And you could talk yourself into, ah, the hip thing. He was trying to get back. They weren't using him, right? All that stuff.

But, um, I think the unknown of fields is potential versus the, the fear that Tua is who he showed those last five games that would steer me toward the jets. That makes sense. The thing that I, I try to keep in mind here is it depends how you feel about fields, but it also depends how you feel about drafting quarterbacks. Right. And the uncertainty that comes with even a really, really, really high pick because two was like one of the greatest college quarterbacks that people have ever watched. And if, if those last four games are legit, what it comes down to could have a lot to do with the injury could be, they don't have the greatest offensive line. Like we were just talking about, there's a lot of different factors, but one of the factors that I don't think should go unmentioned is that people are not

always good at drafting quarterbacks. The NFL is not that great all the time at figuring out which college quarterbacks are going to be great NFL quarterbacks. Yeah. So you can feel awesome about Justin Fields and still acknowledge that Deshaun Watson has a track record in the NFL of being one of the absolutely top five, maybe top like three or four quarterbacks in the entire game. And that to me is just so much more of a sure thing than taking even a guy you feel like was incredible in college, because we've

just, we've seen it so many times. It does not always work out the way that people think it's going to work out. Well, the home run trade would be Tua 4-17 next year's first. That would be so fun.

You take the Heisman guy at four, you cross your fingers, and then Tua turns into the Tua we thought he was going to be two years from now. Now it's like, wow, you just made the greatest trade of all time.

Maybe the team chaplain will pray for that trade tonight as he's praying. Bachelor. That episode was terrible. I think it's been a bad season and I really like The Bachelor. I don't know if the producers are

over-orchestrating this stuff. I don't know if it producers are over-orchestrating this stuff. I don't know if it's because they're trapped in this... Where are they staying? La Mirada? Nima Colon. Whatever. Oh, yeah. But they do this thing, and I think they tell the contestants to do this,

where it's like, we need some drama. Why don't you go tell Matt James? Why don't you go crash his group date? Even though you're not in the group, you should go, you should go tell him how you feel that you might leave, do that. And they try to orchestrate this stuff. But all these people have seen the show. If you've seen the show, you know, like, Hey, there are things you don't do.

One is you don't crash the other group date. You don't, you know, you don't, you don't tattle on the other ladies in the house because that never works. There's certain things that are just no-nos if you actually want to stay in the show. I just feel this feels very orchestrated this year and I don't like it. And I really like Matt James. I think he was a good pick, but I don't think it's been a good season. So I was enjoying it up until last night and I'm sure that I will enjoy. I'm

very excited for what of whatever this escort narrative that has been teased that we're going to get going forward. I'm sure that'll be fun. I just felt like and Sarah, the girl who crashed the group date like she did. She did not do herself any favors by not coming downstairs and just sort of dealing with the fallout from crashing the group date. But there was a real piling on that got gross to me. Like that could have been fun if everyone was like 35% less mean,

but they were 35% too mean. And it just was not, I did not enjoy watching that. It was just like girl meanness in a way that is not fun for me to see on television. So I found that I didn't enjoy that episode at all. I also think they have to, I don't want to tell people what to do with their lives, but the, I have a terminally ill parent at home thing that we kind of got with Claire and then are having with Sarah. I don't know, man. That is a lot.

That is a lot to deal with and be on reality television at the same time. And I don't know if you can make that decision when you're casting. Like, again, people should be able to do what they want to do. But that just seems like a little too much. It's a reality trope that always bothers me when people have the something back home

that they have to mention and it's, we're supposed to favor them differently on the show. This is what happens in the MTV, the challenge too, where it's like, Corey's got two kids at home. He's, you know, he's playing, he's playing for more than the game. He's got two kids at home. And it's like, I don't, if's got two kids at home. Oh, he's, you know, he's playing, he's playing for more than the game. He's got two kids at home. And it's like, I don't, if he has two kids at home, why isn't he with his two kids at home? Why isn't he at the challenge? It's same thing.

Like you're on a reality show. You've made this choice to leave everyone in your life to be on this stupid reality show. Why do I feel bad for you? I don't know. Yeah. And it just, it, you don't, cause we have an incomplete picture, right? So we basically assume that none of the other women in the house know what's going on with her really, but we don't end up seeing, okay. So Katie comes

down and says, look, you don't know what's going on with people. Here's this whole thing. But then the thing that was weird to me was that Katie, who, by the way, real emotional development from night one vibrator girl to being the person who went and had the meaningful conversation with Sarah. What range? Really? Just what? Incredible range. Incredible range out of Katie.

I am growing to like her. But then she gets the final word on it. And then the other thing is that Sarah's probably going to come back at some point. Like it seems like it's being set up for this. I said that to my wife and woke Zoe last night that there's no doubt Sarah's coming back two or three episodes from now. There's going to be the knock on the door. Matt James is going to pretend to be surprised even though there's a camera crew inside his house. I always like how they do that where they have to pretend they have no idea

somebody's going to show up, but they're like, hey, Matt, about 9.30, we're just going to have a camera crew and just... Don't worry about it. Yeah, for the hell of it. Also, don't these people have to quarantine

Before they come back too? It takes a lot of premeditation here This happened on the challenge They brought somebody back Who had been gone for like 8-9 days Because somebody else had to leave And it was like, wait a second I thought you're in Iceland

How is she just available at the snap of the fingers To come back? So yeah, there's a lot of orchestration happening. Yeah, it just, I don't know. Do you like Matt James as a bachelor? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely.

He's a big hit in my house. Yeah. He's almost overqualified to be the bachelor. And I don't understand why he just needed to go on a reality show to find some. He's one of those where it's like, dude, you could have found whoever you wanted. You're great. Do you need to be on this show? So I would like to hear a little bit and I have not Googled.

I'm sure I could find this on the Internet if I really cared to. But I would like to hear a little bit more about his prior dating history because he did drop the. My last relationship was four months long and just wasn't really going to get serious. And my friend Bridget, I was like, okay, if that's the last thing that was a part of your life, like whatever. My friend Bridget just immediately was like, oh, this is some straight up fuckboy energy. Like, what are we doing here? So I'm interested. I'm going to give you one of the best theories I've come up with In 2021

A year that's only a couple weeks old How the Bachelor Is like the NFL this season Specifically in the COVID era The NFL You didn't really realize how much fun Fans were And you feel it more with basketball

But you know like the full Lambeau The full Buffalo with these playoff games, right? And these playoff games are happening and they're basically these televised events. They're fine. You don't really have to think about the fans because the cameras are, but you miss the wide shots.

And even when they had the Buffalo game, it was so fun just to see fans. And you realize like, oh yeah, fans are really fun. We needed the fans. But The Bachelor, because they can't travel and do locations, I guess I had never realized how important the travel and the dates were to the enjoyment of the show because not a lot happens on the show. It's basically like,

it's an escape. We're all in our living room and you're like, Oh, they're in Bali or, Oh, now, now he took, he took her to Aspen for their date or they flew to, you know, uh, Catalina. They're going all these places and you're kind of along for the ride. Like, Oh, that's what that looks like. Oh, they're in Spain. Cool. But, but kind of interested in Spain. And now they're just in some hotel complex and the dates are, they're reading literature date, but it's like, I think they, I didn't realize how important that stuff was to a show. That's really not that great, you know, cause it really isn't, you need the eye candy stuff on top of all the other stuff. Does that make sense? That makes sense. Although I will say it hasn't bothered me.

I found aesthetically the La Quinta a little bit. It was like two. Everything looked the same. I didn't think that it was boring. I just thought that it actually made some things a little bit hard to follow. Like I couldn't remember when something happened because it was all just same color palette. Same like, yeah, everything's a blur. I don't, I think this one's been fine so far, but I also, one thing that I wonder how we will look back on 2020, early 2021, however long this, this, you know, our national nightmare lasts international nightmare, I guess, is if our

standards are kind of lower. Like I also it's funny because I was also thinking about this in relation to the Brady Pats fans thing. Yeah, I think some people are just grateful that if this has to be the year where Brady is doing his thing and the Patriots are bad, I think people are like, I'm glad it's this one because I'm not going to games and I'm just kind of like blah. And I wonder how that will influence like the content, TV, music, movies, whatever that was generated during this time. Because I do think that there are some situations where I'm just like, I don't know. I'm happy to have it, man.

Like, I'll take Nima colon. That's fine. Go have a cheese board with some donkeys. Good enough for me. We, we talk about this in my house a lot. We, we, we watch, we like to watch movies where they're on location just because we feel like we're going somewhere. Like Adam Sandler's made some good on location movies where it's like, he's in Hawaii and just go with it. It's like, cool. We're in Hawaii for a week and things like that, where you're kind of escaping through the movie. One of the best ones. So on New Year's day, cause I had a little bit too much wine on New Year's

Eve. I watched Mamma Mia one and Mamma Mia two back to back. And that's the best, particularly two because everything just looks great in that movie. Like one, you're singing ABBA songs and you're having fun, but like Lily James looks incredible. You're in Greece. All the colors are beautiful. Like the ocean's just spectacular. Everyone's having a good time. Cher shows up. Like that was one of the best choices

of how to spend like two hours of I guess, 2021 now that I've made because that felt like an escape. And I was just like lying on the couch being like, well, what could they happen for you in the, in the COVID now we're in month 11 to Taylor Swift albums. Heck yeah. But that's okay. This is also, this plays into this too.

Because here's the thing, is I like both of those albums. I like both of them a good amount. I do think, and I've been really conflicted about this, she could have made one album and culled some of the songs that aren't the best songs from both Folklore and Evermore and made an absolutely just nails awesome album. And it would have been super, super, super impressive. Instead, she chose to make two pretty long albums and drop them as surprise releases.

And again, I like both of them, but there are some songs that are filler on each one. And I have gone back and forth on which I would prefer because, of course, I am a huge Taylor Swift fan and I want her to be canonized as great as she possibly can be. So if she had made one record that was just spectacular, then maybe that is a means to that end that's a little bit more effective. At the same time, if I were empowered to choose between either outcome, you think I'm saying when I can have two Taylor Swift albums, I just want one? Heck no, I want both of them. There's more just songs for me to sit in my apartment and listen to because that's actually a thing that's of real value right now.

So that I've gone, gone back and forth on a lot, but it's, it's funny just to think about the ways in which quarantine in the last 11 months and whatever have affected how we take things in. Cause I don't know if I would feel quite the same way if that weren't the case. Yeah. But I go back and forth on this this because I think it's partly the playlist era where maybe that's the smart move. And she's smarter than all of us. She'll, Taylor Swift, like she, nobody has figured it out better than her. So she figured out, I'll put out more songs and people can you know they'll have more to choose from

they could take the 8, 9, 10, 11 they like just make you know do whatever make a playlist it's funny how much this has changed though because like you go back to Rumors Fleetwood Mac like the one of the greatest albums ever made yeah they leave out Silver Spring

the Stevie Nicks song because at that point it's like, no, we can only have 10, 11. It's got to be like 30 minutes on each side. And they cut it out. And it's the most indefensible cut song of any album because there's actually specific points you could put it in where it would be like, this would now go from one of the greatest albums to arguably the greatest album if you put that in there. But that was just not how they thought back then. Like this would now go from one of the greatest albums to arguably the greatest album. If you put that in there, but that was just not how they thought back then. I remember when this shifted, when Smashing Pumpkins put out Siamese Dream, which was like 94, 95, and it was a double album.

And he was so, Nirvana, Kurt Cobain was dead. He was so determined to be the biggest band in the world. He put out this giant album and it was like, dude, you should have just picked like 10 to 11 songs. And this would have been like better than your last album. But he kind of word dumped all of them. And then that started happening in hip hop and rap too. And then it just kind of became the way people did it. Like here are 22 songs.

You're going to argue? I like when they select the songs personally. But I'm older. I mean, that's just what I'm used to. But I like being escorted through the taste of the musician. Like, I have specifically selected these 11 songs for you, and they relate in this way. Now it's like a giant playlist.

One of the eternal mysteries of Taylor Swift, however, is song selection. Because the argument for her being as great as I think she is stems from volume, consistency. Every album is a really good album, in my opinion. And for someone who's been at it this long, that's really, really, really impressive. With a specific vibe and theme. Right. Which I think she's really good at. Has changed more than most musicians of that caliber and that level of fame would and takes risks and all that stuff's really cool. One thing that is always a little confounding with her is which songs are the lead singles, which songs get left off the regular album and just end up on like a deluxe edition. Like my literal number one favorite Taylor Swift song in the world is a song called New Romantics.

It is only on the Target deluxe edition of 1989. It's bananas. And that song. So that. When does that album come out? In the fall. And so they released the album. They do all the singles.

And that album had singles like, for instance, OK, Shake It Off is both an incredible song and an incredible earworm. And like musically, not that interesting. So but I get the choice of a single there and they, they do that and it's all fine, whatever. In the spring of that year, I think they released new romantics as a single, like way past the end of the album cycle. Because the only thing that I can think of is that somebody recognizes like, hey, this song is incredible and people love it. And it got I think it got into the 40s or maybe the 30s on the charts. So it had a moment.

But that song, I will die on this hill. That song could have been huge. And you can tell that they kind of know it because when she tours, they'll always use it in a good place or they'll vamp with it while people are like entering an arena. And it's very clear that they know that that song is a tone setter and that it's really, really, really frigging good. Target Deluxe Edition. Unbelievable. You know, that's when somebody hits either as an artist or as a band And they last over a decade Which now Taylor's well over a decade at this point It is funny how they all have those songs Like all my favorite bands had the two or three songs

Even Springsteen, who's been doing it for 50 years He has like his two or three that in concert Mean so much more than they did when the song was actually released because the fans, I also think fans kind of gravitate to a couple songs with an artist that didn't make it for whatever reason, or didn't get the same shine or whatever. And they're like, no,

no, that's the best. And they, they kind of over kind of oversell it in a way, but then it takes a life of its own. That album for 1989 for her, I think is the one where that has started to happen the most. Yeah. Because since that was the first, just like full completely country has gone mainstream pop, pop, pop. We're working with Max Martin, having a good time. There's lots of glitter album. That's one where the singles and the songs that people, you know, Blank Space is incredible.

I think that's one of her best songs. So that, that can go both ways, but Bad Blood and Shake It Off were these big songs that were on the radio a ton. Yeah. But I don't think now that we have some space from that album, people are like, oh, those songs are really, really awesome songs. So then there are a couple tracks from that album, like I think Wildest Dreams and a song called I Know Places that have started to take on that thing with fans where it's like, no, in hindsight, those are going to be really big important Taylor Swift songs but they just got drowned out by these singles that you couldn't turn the radio on without hearing six times in a row and it's funny because I don't know that the earlier albums I think the big songs from the

earlier albums have kind of stayed the big songs yeah in a lot of cases. You could maybe make an argument for something like Holy Ground off of Red. But Love Story was big at the beginning and is big now. A lot of those, the trajectory is kind of even. Love Story is a good song. Great song. Great song. Even the re-recorded Love Story. Those songs,

she has like five or six that are gonna you know, that were hits at the time that will remain hits 20 years from now. Sure. Right. But it's the once she'd started changing gears really dramatically. I think it leaves more room for there to be kind of distance between what was huge at the time and what lasts because there was such a reaction to, whoa, this is new. This is different. And that's what people focus on immediately. But now, you know, that it's closing in on, we have a few years before it'll be a decade, but the better part of a decade later, there's the hindsight takes over and it's like, okay, now that we are used to this flavor from her,

which songs do we notice a little bit more than we did at the beginning? I don't want to step too much on the podcast we're going to do with Nathan Hubbard on this feed, the All Taylor podcast, because both of you have strong thoughts on this. I have it down. So I have this emergency plan for NFL season ends. NBA gets shut down because of COVID for three weeks and there's literally gonna be nothing to talk about. And that's when I hit the bat signal for, oh, it's time for the two and a half hour Nora Nathan Taylor Swift career retrospective pod.

It's on the list. So be ready. And the funny thing about that is I'm ready. I'll just tell you like what 10 minutes before. Hey, it's time. Bat signal has been activated.

You guys will be ready to go. We'll cover it. I've been training my whole life for this. So I don't want to step on that. But I will say I think if you compare her career to the other iconic pop singers and I have no problem calling her a pop singer. She iconic pop singers.

And I have no problem calling her a pop singer. She makes pop music. Correct. She has exceeded the over-under in a really unusual way. They're supposed to last seven, eight years and then people get tired and they move on. They can still last after that, but it's usually a seven, eight year run.

It's not supposed to be 14, 15. What she's doing, I actually think is incredible and doesn't really have a lot of correlation to other things that have happened in popular music. How about that? This is great. I'm in a great mood. I didn't even, I didn't know we were going to get

a Taylor conversation in here. Well, just watching it through the lens of my daughter who liked her from the moment she really started liking music when we would be driving to soccer games and she's like seven, eight. The fact that she's still relevant to my daughter is like amazing to me. So my daughter,

everything she liked when she was seven, eight, nine, she no longer likes. Taylor Swift's the one thing that she still, like she really liked folklore. She still listens to it. You know, What was the last album that came out? Evermore. Yeah, she liked Folklore more than Evermore. But the fact that she remained relevant, I think, is relevant and still doing good work and still pushing the envelope. And she might be secretly

married. Who knows? There's mystique with her that I think is really hard to maintain on the internet, right? She might have a husband. We don't know. Does she? Does she have a husband? I don't know. My daughter's fascinated by it. She's Googled all of it.

She thinks Taylor might be married. Maybe. Who knows? I could buy it. I would bet on no, but I could buy it. I also think she would totally love to elope. Like she has such I would like to elope energy as a person.

The documentary, which was mostly a waste of time, had a couple of really great moments in it. And I don't know if they're orchestrated or not, but I was really fascinated by them. But the best one was when she found out that whatever album it was didn't get nominated. And she kind of processed it like Schwarzenegger and the Terminator for eight seconds.

And you could see she was rattled. And then she was just like, okay, I got to make a better album. And you could just see like the seeds being planted. I don't know if that was a completely orchestrated moment that they talked out beforehand or whether that was organic, but either way I was interested. I think that was, I think it's organic. I think the thing is, I think some of the stuff that people think is contrived with her. I don't think it is. I just think that it can be sometimes

uncomfortable to watch a person who has real strong people pleaser mentality, like very thoroughly ingrained within them, have to try to be a celebrity and have to try to keep people interested in her and do that. I think it can be uncomfortable, but I don't, I am firmly on the side of that was a real thing that really upset her. I 90% agree with you. But there's that 10% with her where it's just like, you don't know.

It was like when she would have all those relationships with one famous celebrity after another and you're just like, is this real? I don't, it seems like, oh, we're on the beach. We didn't realize that photographer was there. And it's five times in a row. You're just like, what is real and what's not? I don't know what to believe

that's fair I remember once having a very funny um standing in the middle of the Patriots locker room uh just very animatedly explaining to someone that Hiddleswift was fake and Brian

Hoyer like laughed overheard this in the corner of the room and laughed so hard that he was like snarfing something out of his nose and I was like if I if I somehow injure Brian Hoyer or upset him

through yelling Hiddleswift was fake in the middle of this weird room like that's not gonna be not gonna be my proudest moment as a beat writer here but yeah

I don't know but she some people date a lot. I always am suspicious when one of the people they're dating isn't like some bartender they met or, you know, her valet or somebody who is a producer on one of her albums and they went on a couple dates When it's like just A-list, A-list, A-list A-minus list, A-list

It's the Tom Cruise thing I'm suspicious First of all, that was very generous to Taylor Lautner She did have A-minus list That was nice of you Thank you There was a guy named Steven.

Oh. Who is the namesake of the song Hey Steven, who I feel was involved in her work life in some way, but I would have to look it up. I think that's fair. But so she, her type clearly is this like mostly British blonde sort of young looking thing. Yeah.

And that's a lot of actors. Fair. Fair. This is it. This is why you're this is why you're the expert. You have an answer for all of this stuff. All right. We'll save the rest of it for the emergency pod that we hopefully

never have to do because I never want the NBA to go away. I thought the fact that you were able to weave in the Patriots locker room into an organic Taylor Swift conversation is why you're the best at this. Excellent. Thank you. I don't, I mean, I don't really know what else your resume needs. It was, it was just seamless. You just pulled it in Brian Hoyer. I don't know how you do it. Uh, Nora, we, we, Nora, where were we here? You next Sunday night, or are you going to be on sooner Sunday night? Um, maybe sooner, but I think Sunday night and we're going to go live again after the games end. And we'll see if I can get Kevin to say anything else. Like I'm a goofy goober, but no promises.

Good luck. Thanks for coming on Nora. Good to see you. That's it for the BS podcast. We have the red hot million dollar picks coming on Thursday, along with some other fun stuff. Assuming that we're all still safe on Thursday. God, I hope we are. Stay safe out there. Enjoy the next couple of days. See you on Thursday. On the wayside I'm a bruised son Never lost it I don't have to ever forget