The Bill Simmons Podcast - Burning NBA Questions and a “Holy Crap, Charlotte!!!” Deep Dive With Zach Lowe

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Zach Lowe LIVE on Netflix right after 76ers-Celtics to react to the game before recapping the NBA slate from the weekend (0:32). Then, they look at the playoff picture, possible All-NBA teams, before ending on a deep dive of the Hornets (51:02). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Zach Lowe Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠⁠⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's the Bill Simmons podcast. on a night on Netflix, Zach Lowe is here. On Netflix tomorrow, Zach Lowe, there's going to be a live rewatchables because it's CR month. Chris Ryan finally got his own month. We're doing Sicario live 6 p.m.

E.T. on Netflix. When you watch Sicario multiple times in the same weekend, it definitely sets the mood. I don't know what mood it is, but I was in a really frisky mood for the Sixers Celtics game. It turned out to be the Kada game.

But I really just want to talk about the lady getting kicked in the head on the VGA Edgecom play. It brings in a lot of court side questions. The people that bring little, like, six-year-old kids to sit court-side thinking nothing could ever happen. This, to me, is a PSA video now. I mean, it's crazy that someone got injured worse in this sideline incident than when the Hornets and the Pistons had a brawl that almost spilled into the second row of the stand and everyone was fine. And this poor lady, I think they said her name was Christine or something, got, I mean, she got booted and she's sitting up.

She's still sitting there. She's bleeding course. She's like, no, I'm good. Like, I'm going to stay in the game. You got to admire it. But you got to head on a swivel at all times. She looked like one of like the Canadian Olympic hockey players just trying to make it to the handshake line. Huge bruise on the side of the face.

I couldn't tell if she was looking at the player, if she was looking away and didn't see it. But then the foot ricocheted late, which I don't know how you can predict. But I've been saying this forever. For some reason, it took forever in baseball games. foul balls for us to get really concerned about people along the third base side, first base side, the line drives. Took a couple people just getting nailed to be like, oh, we should probably put a net up. I still feel like with courtside, we're just playing with fire because you can go to any game

and you can see who's sitting there. And there's always one person who's too old and one person who's too young, sit in those seats. And it's always in that area, like right, three point line extended where people are trying they're like running out or they're trying to save a loose ball and they just go flying in there full speed. Yeah, the baseline seats are far enough back. Those are your safest court side seats. The sideline seats, you're on the floor and you're right. It's, it could happen at any moment and you've got to be, you got to be ready. I've always been a hardliner about baseball in the cell phone age or even the pre-cell phone age. If you get hit because you, you're not paying attention. I don't, I don't,

I mean, if you suffer some sort of traumatic brain injury, I'll feel bad for you, but you're at the game. The tickets say it on the back. Yeah, pay attention. Pay attention. I'm teaching my daughter that now. And she's a product of like the TikTok cell phone age. Like she doesn't have a phone yet. But if we're going to go to baseball games, you got to be ready at all times.

You can see it when you go to baseball games. Just look around in like the fourth inning and see how many people are like this, which is basically why they had to put the nets up. Six or Celtics. I just want to say these NBC Sunday night games, I think have accomplished their early objective, which is. is to make it feel like a bigger game, right? If they show the pregame warmups,

they have Lenny Kravitz, the John Tesh song, the studio, the crew is there on the court. And it does feel like a bigger game. Like I do like what they've done, and I think it was a good idea. So that's one of the few nice things I'll say

about all the weird network schedule stuff we have, because I never know what channel is on, what game at any time. Just when I was getting used to the Fridays, that flipped. And now it's like ESPN's on Friday. I never know where the games are, but I do like this. Somehow the ratings are skyrocketing up, even though people say they can't find where the game is.

I don't even know how we measure ratings really anymore. But I agree with you. The Sunday night NBC stuff is good. The song, it's always good to hear Round Ball Rock. I like Tash's appearance at the All-Star Game. He was bouncing the fake ball in tune with the drumline. That was great. And yeah, it felt like a big game tonight.

Yeah, we didn't get Embeddead. No. Tatum, it feels like it's going to be Friday. Dallas. Okay. That's what all signs are pointing to Friday, Dallas. I was wondering if it would be this weekend, but by Friday, I think it was not going to be this weekend.

That's an NBC game as well, is it not? Might be. I think they were talking about that game at the end, and obviously they have this Tatum rehab docu thing they're doing. I have a couple more notes from this game. VJ Max, I'm just automatic veto. I don't like it. Thank you.

I thought I was the only one. It's bad. I hated it from the beginning. And I sabotaged probably any deal will ever get from TJ Max because I hate it because I hate going into TJ Max. I say this all the time. If you want to buy a lamp, a fake gold-plated lamp in the shape of a cat, T.J. Max has you covered. If you want to buy something useful, T.J. Max is not for you. I did a whole thing.

Kellerman was on my pod Thursday, and I had a mailback question about nicknames, which really peaked in the 70s, and maybe even early 90s, and now we're just flailing. And we use initials and acronyms for the most part. And then occasionally when people try to push something, it's something just hacky like VJ Max.

I just think we need to go back to draw on board. This is making me feel so much better because the NBC people say, I like VJ Max, that's a good one. Like it's, it is. So I guess I'm the only one. No, I'm not. I'm not the only one.

You're never alone. Usually the group player kind of nickname things. TMC with the Warriors in the early 90s late. That worked. But it was also the first initial of each guy's name and it was kind of organic. And I liked it. The Jays, I think, even though it's not technically a nickname, but Jlin and Jason, calling the Jays.

I'm not calling VJ Max VJ Max, VJ Max ever. No, I feel stupid saying it. I'll tell you, can I just give you my, favorite nickname of all time in the history of sports team or player, it trumps all categories. What is it? This is going to be right up your alley. Fye Slamma, Jama. It's the best.

It's number one on the nickname skill. Yeah, and think about that. That was like 43 years ago. We really peaked. We were just better at nicknames way back when, which is what I was talking to Max about when we had the Clyde the glide and those kind of names. Like we were just, just had it all figured out. I don't know what happened.

This was the Kada game. I know. ironic because my dad took my daughter and my daughter has been the biggest Kada fan for his entire Celtic career because knows enough about basketball to follow what's going on but not enough about basketball to understand the league and how the players and who's worth what and she's been asking for three years why don't they play Kata isn't that doesn't he have everything that a center would have so when he kind of took off this year for the Celtics she was like I was telling you it was like her one

she sounds like me taking credit what a win for For Zoe Simmons. Unbelievable. So Zoe Simmons is there today with the hat on, thinking there might be a dark chance Tatum comes out of the tunnel because that's her favorite player. But then our other favorite player, Kada, became the Kada game.

And this was the 39th pick in the 2001 draft by your favorite, the Sacramento Kings. They did it again. She just had a prototypical center who is really good with this hands up, who's coordinated, who plays hard,

who rebounds, who gets better, basically every month and they're just like, we're good, take a hike. Well, they found him again in Dylan Cardwell. We're doing Dylan Cardwell deep cuts it already in the podcast. So hang on to Dylan Cardwell.

Try Sacramento. I just free advice. If you have a good player, try to keep the player on your team. It's a free tip. Just try it. Try it out in this next era of King's Basketball. Well, so Kada, as a playoff guy,

which I don't, I just don't think they countered on him like they do now. And you think about some of the teams that the Celtics are going to play in the playoffs, potentially, bigger teams, guys like Duren, the guys the Knicks have, Jared Allen and Moby on the Cavs. Like they're actually going to really, really need him. And you have this combined with the Tatum comeback, which I have like a stealth conspiracy that they're using Shireman as a Tatum proxy.

Shireman's minutes are way up the last six weeks. I feel like, and he's playing well and he's doing well on defense and they're using him a little like how they would use Tatum if his legs were back. And some of the stuff they're running offensively and some of the ways they're using Shireman, I feel like is what they're going to end up with Tatum specifically. They like having them in that left corner when Jalen and White are doing like the little at the top stuff. Kitas, it's a pick. Somebody else comes. There's a little action. And Shireman's always open that left corner. and I feel like that's going to be a Tatum spot.

I think they're going to be very careful with how they use him. Probably stagger the minutes with Jaylen, but when you think about it, because we're close now, what does a Tatum come back look like for you? Give me your ceiling basement outcomes for this. Sealing is, he comes back, gets 10 to 12 games under his belt in a regular season,

so the playoffs are not zero to 100 right away. Minutes-wise, I don't know. Let's just say 20 to 25 minutes. Let's be conservative and say he's not going to start playing 30, minutes a game, even if he plays a decreased role compared to what he used to play. Yeah. Let's say 20, 25 minutes, not quite role player, but not Jason Tatum. And then you said it, when Jalen sits, they've been awesome, by the way, when Jalen

is on the bench this whole season. They were awesome again today when Jalen Brown is on the bench. But they do lose, they become like almost a completely system team. And the system has worked really well, the high screens, all the different screen and roll combinations, the shooting all around it. but they do lose the bully ball if everything comes to a halt with five seconds left and the shot clock, can we mismatch on?

Can we do something? And he's just tall enough that even if he can't power his way to the rim the way he peak Jason Tatum does or blow by everybody the way he does, he can still be Jason Tatum and shoot over the 6-4 guard that switched onto him at the end of the shot clock. And that just makes your team better. It's just another guy slicing into,

I mean, it's hard to say like taking some, some of the Gonzalez minutes and the Hauser minutes and the Walsh minutes because all those guys are playing really well. But just Jason Tatum taking a piece of each of those guys' minutes and all the non-jailant minutes, I just see no downside to it at all for them. We feel the same. I feel like it's going to be Shireman the minutes that he takes. Yeah, either just throw him into the same bucket. Just saying, and he's not going to be worse than Shireman. I would say 18 and 24 minutes probably. Maybe you're looking at nine minutes stretches in each half or like six and, five in each half or something like that.

Shireman, his minutes per game in February was 24.3, which I thought was interesting because that's right around where I think Tatum's going to be. There's going to be, you know, Simons was out, so some minutes got shared. And then they have to figure out this Vucevich thing because, you know, he looked really awful in a couple of those road trip games. And then Friday against Brooklyn, who usually plays the Celtics. Celtics well, just for the record. And the Celtics had one of the great offensive performances in the history of the sport.

So that was interesting. But Vouch looked good in that game. Didn't look as good today. I just think at age 35, you're a long time, Vucevic watcher. Age 35, he's just going to be hit or miss. You're going to know probably in the second quarter each game. Oh, are you getting him tonight?

Oh, we're not? Okay, we'll do this instead. Well, I think the Keda discussion is really also about Vucovich, and that this is an overdue and transition for him into a backup center role, which he is fine for because there are just going to be some matchups where the A team offense on the other team is just too fast and too dynamic for him. But can you spot him 14 to 18 bench minutes when the best offense player

and other team's on the floor and he can just bang on the glass and get rebounds and box out? And tonight was like 11 points, 12 rebounds, like didn't kill you on defense, not the most dynamic offensive team outside of Maxie and Edgecombe, which is a problem for him. But I think this is like he was just overmatched as a starting center in his midst to late 30s, and this is a totally fine role for him. And you mentioned all the giants that they're going to go through. I really think those Detroit games, and particularly the one in Detroit where the Pistons

kind of beat them up, maybe it was in Boston. I can't remember. I think they've lost both in both places. I think those games really freaked the Celtics out a little bit, like, oh, my God, this team is A, for real, and B, just massive and strong compared to us in a way that we are not quite built to play against. I agree. It's so funny that you can't really survive in the playoffs anymore unless you can have size.

You need everything, man. You have no chance. You have OKC. You have Denver. You've Minnesota. You have all the teams in the east we mentioned. You're not getting away with like the 2015 Warriors type of let's go small. We'll play like that those days are over.

This Tatum come back. One thing that I haven't heard anyone talk about that I realize today, the rarity of somebody coming back. this late in the season that's also being counted on, on a team that has a chance to make the finals, I went through all a history trying to figure out how many times this has happened. I really could only find Jordan with the baseball comeback in 95. Magic Johnson got hurt in 1981. He hurt his knee.

He missed like 40 games. He missed over half the season, his second season. They came back, they lost a round one. And then Will Chamberlain only played 12 games in the regular season in the 6970 came back for the playoffs and the Willis Reed playoffs. There might have been a couple others,

but I really racked my brain. I couldn't, this is really unusual. Like normally how it goes is Jamal Murray getting hurt, missing the rest of a season, coming back and just kind of not being ready in time for the playoffs

and the team kind of punting on it. We've never really seen this. And I don't, it's one of the rare things in sports where I have no idea how it plays out. If you get any set of alternatives for it, And I just don't know. I mean, there is, it could, it could not go well and they could decide midway through,

like we're actually going to cut your minutes. I don't suspect that's going to happen just because he's so good and he appears to be ready. Yeah, but anything could happen. There was the Jordan broken foot season too, but they weren't a contender that year. Yeah. They were fairly a playoff thing. Most of the time, like I think back to KG in 2009 when there was this will, he won't he thing from that weird near injury.

Even like, remember Jemir Nelson that same year got hurt in the playoffs. and Rayford Alston started and it was like Willie Woney. That's usually what it is. And it is a trickier like reintegration process for those kinds of players. So yeah, this is a weird one. With Stata, I can't remember Stademeyer 20 years ago in the 06 Suns.

I can't remember if he was lingering for a comeback or not. I'd have to read seven seconds or less. He did not come back. I don't believe in the playoffs. He didn't come back, but I didn't know if it was like they had their fingers crossed. Well, we'll see what happens. This can be a very interesting Celtics week because they had Milwaukee tomorrow night.

And I think they're going to rest everybody. And Hope Milwaukee has one of those just terrible Milwaukee games like they had today. Charlotte on Wednesday, who we're going to talk about later. We're doing a Charlotte. The deep dive, we did Kauai last week. We're doing a deep dive on Charlotte this week. Friday, Dallas, Cooper Flagg, Homecoming. The entire state of Maine's going to be there.

Hopefully he plays. And then I think they play against Sunday. I want to talk about Maxie quick because I was thinking about him today. The best picks after pick 20. he's the 21st pick in 2020, how rare it is to get somebody that you've drafted for yourself who has a chance to be an NBA guy, which I think we both think he's probably at least second team.

Desmond Payton in that same draft was 30. Brunson was 33 for Dallas, but ended up on the Knicks before he became a guy. An Ananobe on Toronto 23. D. White was 29. Siakum 27. Then, of course, Yokage 41, Gobert, 27. Dremont 35.

Middleton 39 and Butler 30. Those are all the guys from the last 15 years that after pick 20 became guys. And he has a chance to be a second team all-N-B-A. The Sixers have loved them this whole time. But I just think what he's doing is really special this year. He's going to play the most minutes and the most games at the guard position in 10 years is what he's on pace. The last guy was James Harden, 82 games, 38.1 a game in 2016.

like guards don't do this anymore, play this many minutes, had this much of a burden, and they kind of rise and follow them. He wasn't very good tonight, but he kind of also kept them in it. And I just, did you ever think he would be this guy?

No, no. I mean, I think he is going to make an all-emba team this year. I had him on third team when I just did my blink test, look at the team. It's a crowded field, even with the health issues. But I think he should make an all-N-B-A team.

I don't think anyone thought he would be an all-MBA player. That's why he was picked 21st, remember they only got him because Mike Muscala hit a bunch of shots in an Oklahoma City game that like flipped the pick to Philadelphia's way. No, I'm saying like after we knew he was good. Oh. Did you think he was going to be this good? Because there became a point, especially when Hardin was still there, was like, wow,

they really hit this maxi pick. He's good. Did you think he was going to be this good? Yeah, I can't say that I expected like 30 a game on good efficiency. Me neither. And I think what proves that that was probably the consensus is, he's been in the most improved player conversation for like the last four years. Like every year people are like again.

Like I guess we got to put him up for this award again. Yeah. Yeah, he's got some of the stuff he does is just so unique to him. Like he's got a floater basically from the foul line that he shoots running straight like a shot put. I don't know anybody else who has that shot. The change of speed stuff he has. The teams are so terrified to him now. They get a defensive rebound and he has the ball in the back court.

You can see it's almost like football. Like when Tyree kills in motion. I can see everybody kind of scrambling around, but he's a really special player. And they have this Embedde now has this oblique injury too. And Maxis talked about his frustration with how they're basically these two separate teams. I think people are wondering, is this kind of like a playoff team you don't want to see in the playoffs when they get

Paul George back in Embed? I think the style thing is going to kill them ultimately in a series because I don't think they know who they are. But long term, as a combo, this, we don't call them VJG. Max, Edgecombe and Maxie. It's about as good as it gets for a young combo, I think. They're in great shape. The question for me is, will Darrell Moore be around to see it?

We'd be around to see it through. Who knows? I mean, you'd have to, we're only 60 games in, and they are clinging to the sixth seed. The race for six in the east has gotten pretty spicy, and like the whole seven to ten thing is a mess. But 60 games in, you'd have to count this season as a success for Philadelphia, I think given Mbid's been in and out of the lineup and this PG thing, I mean, I don't know how you evaluate, you know, who's at fault for all of the mishaps that continued to befall this franchise. But this is better than I thought there would be after 60

games given, and they haven't had like great health luck by any stretch. No. What was it? 42 was the over under and we something like, it was the one that really flummox you me and house about, we didn't know what to do. We, you could have said 20 wins either way. Yeah, you're right. With Paul George basically missing when you include the injuries that the start of the air and the suspension, he's going to miss over half the season. And Beats had three separate

injuries. They've gotten more from Edgecom than they. I really like the role guys. I think that Bonas a legitimate rotation guy who I could see in a playoff series. Yeah, I don't, like if that's the 2-7 matchup,

they match up pretty, like they're very comfortable against Boston. Even today, all of a sudden that game was six, and they just had these little runs against Boston. I think they like going against Jaylen. They have guys to throw at him. They like going against the Boston guards. They did a good job on Pritcher today. But I just think without the size, it's not going to happen. Nick Spurs was the other really interesting one today, which we both watched. It was the first time the Spurs looked like crap in a while. Their win streak then. It was also the first time the Knicks, really, you could see the full, whatever.

whatever the blueprint was as they were heading in the trade deadline. Not going to overreact because the Knicks had some bad losses over the last couple weeks. But did you learn anything from that game? I thought it was, first of all, I guess I learned that Mohamed D.O.R. is going to shoot like 23s in a game at some point to season. I actually think he's pretty good. And he's earned himself a look in their postseason rotation. To me, that game, I mean, a lot of Knicks played well in that game.

That was a Josh Hart game. and, you know, they're going to see this strategy over and over again where teams put their centers, their rim protectors on Josh Hart and just ignore him and put wing players on Kat. And my God, Stefan Castle goes from guarding Kat to guarding Brunson when Kat goes out the game. It's like, this guy is in his second year. And this is what he's doing on defense, let alone the offense. That's crazy. But Josh Hart, it was a little funky to start with. And I think the Knicks kind of leaned into, if you're going to ignore Josh Hart, we're actually going to bring him up into the action.

even though Wemby's on him, and that means we're bringing Wembe into the action, and he's this terrifying alien with a million-foot wingspan. And they made the most out of it. Like he scored on the pick and roll. He got open shots for Brunson. He did the Draymond thing, which I think they're going to need to do more

if teams treat him like this, which is, if you're ignoring me, swing the ball back to me, I'll run a handoff for McHale Bridges, who hit a three out of this. Landry Schammick got a good three out of it. And I looked it up on the tracking data. It was the most ball screens Josh Hart has set

in any game this season was in this game. And I remember talking to a head coach maybe two months ago whose team was in New York to play the Knicks. We sat down and we were having coffee. And I was like, so who are you going to put your center on, blah, blah, you're going to do the heart thing probably, right? Like, that's what the matchups make sense for you. We're going to put your center on heart.

He's like, I don't know, man. Josh Hart feels like he solved that one. And like he's heard a lot of teams by making open threes and doing Josh Hard things and crashing the glass. And I'm kind of afraid to do it. And he didn't do it. And I think the Knicks won the game. But that conversation stuck in my head is like,

this is how a team think about game planning for the Knicks. It really starts with towns and heart. And the Knicks felt like today they hit a gear with that that they had not hit this season. Hmm. Also helps San Antonio 26.5% from three. You could say this about just about any team. But yeah, the San Antonio Clunker is a little unsustainable. It's also the way to beat OKC.

Hey, could you guys miss 75% of your threes? That would really help us. On the Knicks. Okay. Larry David was there. They kept showing them during the game. I'm reasonably sure that was his first or second time back, but I think it was his first time back since the game,

where he went to the Halliburton. Oh, he was there? The comeback game and the three that went all the way up and down. And he was supposed to stay for two games and flew back after that game. He was so traumatized. So I think it was an emotional return for LD back at MSG. I didn't realize that. Yeah.

It was, I mean, the Knicks fans still talk about that Hal Burton game. Like, I was talking about the 86 World Series, the Buckner game. Like, it was that traumatic. I mean, you're not kidding because I think it's faded recently because we're just in the dog days of the season. But early in the season when I would go to MSG and they would be up like 14 in the fourth quarter. And another team would go on like a 5-0 run. You could hear these murmurings in the crowd. This is like the eighth game of the season.

What are you all so? Oh, it's that game. It's in their heads a little bit. One of the most traumatizing losses of since we've been alive for the NBA. It's easily in the top five. And we've both watched the game since. It's an absolutely incredible rewatch. All right.

I'm going to zip through a couple random dorky NBA things. Could I just say before you do? I'm just so, I'm really happy that I got to share the Kada game with you. That's what I was thinking in the entire second half. There's one, one day I'm going to get to see the sad bill meme. If we keep doing these after Celtics games and I really want to see the sad bill meme like in person around Zoom. This, I just, the whole thing I was thinking, no one in the world is going to be happier

that Kada had a career game and we had to spend nine minutes watching a woman get kicked in the face by VJ Edgecom because of a review. and make us reconsider who should be sitting sideline. Do we need a protective net? I'm prepared for every dumb conversation possible about this. That lady was a hero sitting, staying in the seat too. No complaints.

I thought Toriko did a great job of being like, look at her toughen out. She's going to stay in the last four minutes. She just needs to go to the medical tent. Even she was sitting there like, is this, what is Sukkawk is doing? Is nobody there? Do they all go get a coffee break?

Why is this taking eight fucking minutes to resolve this? Can we get on with it? I'm bleeding. Can we get on with the game? I need a nice pack. 45 seconds max for a review. Just tell me that rule doesn't work. We don't know in 45 seconds.

Keep the call of stands. Let's move on. All right. Random dorky NBA stuff. Let's go. Have the Thunder officially become villains? Did this happen? Are we here?

I'll give you some of the case. And then you tell me all the picks that they have. just the fact that they're successful, but then have this war chest too. Sam Presti, how everybody else in the league now is mad at San Presti for a variety of reasons, including that he's now anti-tanking

when he used to be pro-tanking and whatever. Is your phone ringing yet, or do you have it on mute? It's off. Okay. All the foul baiting, especially from SGA, that became a thing this year.

The boring commercials, just bad commercials, starting the OKC people. I don't think people like that. They stole the team from Seattle has to be mentioned. Wow, you were going all in. And then the coup de grace, Lou Doort, the dirtiest guy in the league. Just hands down.

If we're handing that out and if we, if that's in the awards, dirtiest player of the year, Lou Doort wins. That was the dirtiest thing anyone did this year. It was inexcusable. I can't believe he did it. It was a play to try to hurt another player. It wasn't in the flow of a game where somebody's up in the air and they make a mistake. This was like a deliberate, I'm going to try to.

fuck with Nicole Yokic and maybe hurt him. It's my interpretation of that play. There's no other interpretation. I feel like you're taking it personally almost because it was Yokic. I feel like because you felt it was a personal attack on you. Listen, Liam Beir, there's been guys over the years. They crossed the line of, are you actually trying to hurt somebody else who's in this game? And I thought that crossed the line.

And I couldn't believe the OKC coach was surprised after. Maybe he didn't see the clip. I did enjoy Mark Dagnol's reaction after the game. Like, I just want to know, is that a flagrant two now? We're doing that every time. It's a flagrant two because we're doing it every time. I just want to know it's a flagrant two. And then that's as far as you go.

He wouldn't say anything else about it. But, I mean, look, it doesn't look like a hard hit when you see it on replay. But that's because we're not taking it from like a 260 pound cinder block in real time. It was a, you know, it was a decent hit. I wasn't surprised they upgraded it. to a flagrant too. And it was clearly, I'm going out of my way

to hit you. This is not a natural running motion. This is not a direction anybody would take. Similar to like, you know, that we've been seen a lot of other plays like that

where just guys just decide I'm going to hit you and he decided, I'm going to hit you. Okay, are they villains? I mean, I think villains are great

for the NBA. I would love to see them lean in. That's why I brought this up. They kind of need an identity, right? Remember last year we were like, how do we talk about these guys? They just play hard.

they all like each other, they're leaning into their inner villain now, which I like. I mean, like we'll never see Yokage that mad again. And this is a guy who got, who got cheap shoted by one of the Morris brothers and then nailed him in the back.

And nobody has messed with Yokage since for like, what, five years? I was worried. Has anybody done anything, Tim, since then? I was worried his brothers were going to be at the game and something, like, who knows what's going to happen if the Yokach brothers are at the game. But the eyes,

those eyes will live on forever. I mean, that is an all-time meme, whatever. Like, those eyes, I don't look at, I don't look at the first beer after trade deadline with the intensity that Nicole Yolkic stared at Lou Dort with. Like, we did Big Jaila. I mean, that was, that was a lusty, aggressive stare. Yeah, there's three problems for Dort.

One is that he saw Yokic, sized him up, and then pretending didn't see him. Then he stepped back into him. And then he swung his right foot around. to make sure that he got him. And there was history from the before earlier in the game with them. And in general, it was a chippy game. And I think one of the lessons from this week,

there's real animosity in some of these games now. Oh, that was, that was, that was an intense game from the beginning. Piston Spurs was just like, Pistons, everybody. Pistons Cavs was also, because that, I thought Friday night was awesome, Piston Caves was also really chippy and kind of angry. And not a lot of, not a lot, we've,

we've kind of moved out of the banana boat era with the, with the league. I feel like there's a lot of animosity now in these games again. I love it. I think, I think we all agree. We would like to see more of that. On the Thunder villain thing,

I will say, some of it is envy, right? Like, teams are just envious about how well the Thunder have built their team. Yeah. I will also say, When Chris Finch, now what are we two months into this, gave his, they're very frustrating to play against because they get to the line a lot and you can't touch Shea. Remember that press conference

Chris Finch gave? And like there was before and after stats about Shea's free throws. I heard from so many people around the league being like Chris Finch is a hero. We love Chris Finch. Somebody said it. Somebody said it. So there's something, there's something to this. It was like the Stillwater drummer and almost famous when they start going off on Russ Russell Hammond, and he's like, finally the truth in the bus or the plane, whatever it was. I like it. I think the Thunder have an identity again. Their fans are going to eat this up.

I'm sure this segment will get caught out and put somewhere, and I'll be a villain like poor Justin Termini, who's enemy number one in Oklahoma City. Before all their players got hurt, part of being a villain is knowing how goddamn good you are and wanting to crush everybody in front of you. And before all their players got hurt, they played like. a team who was like, bring it on, we're going to destroy your soul in this basketball game. And I loved that. That's exactly how you want to champion to approach its potential repeat season. Well, you talked with legs about this little Case in Wallace mini leap in February, which has been

noticeable. I don't know how much is there big picture, but I've increased the ceiling in the building by a couple stories. Because it's clear to me now, they're going to have some tax stuff. They also have to figure out how to pay him. Dort's got the team option next year. And I wonder, like, is, is Dord and Caruso and Wallace on this team a year from now? My bet would be no. They'll try to patch, you know, the picks that they have and they'll try to save money that and then give the money back to Wallace. But Wallace, like what, give me the best statistical season of his career. Give me a guess. 18 and 5, maybe, something like that. Do you think that's the best?

22 and 5. I don't know. I mean, it just depends where he goes, right? Like, it depends what team he's on. See, I was ready to get to like 22, 7, and 5. You might be right. You're better at projecting. You're more adventurous and therefore better. I just wonder how much is there.

Could he be, obviously, if he's on this team, he's never going to be the lead guard. But could he be like a real sidekick, somebody who's 37, 38 minutes a game? Three three is a game. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's 20.

Maybe it's closer to you. It's somewhere between 18 and 22. but I wouldn't have said this three months ago, I don't think. But to your point, I think people just like recency bias and just people got a lot going on in their lives, I think people have kind of forgotten how good the thunder can really be. And there's going to be a week when they get everybody back. And it's going to be like, oh, God, oh, yeah, that's right. That guy too.

And that guy is coming off the bench. And that guy is a luxury item. And like Jared McCain, who they swipe from the Sixers is suddenly like the 13th man on the team. But he's playing great too. And honestly, not the worst thing in the world to not put all these miles on these guys when you're going to have a five or six year run, which I've been thinking about a lot. Like talking about that five-year Warriors run. I forget what podcast we talked about it on here.

But, you know, those years are like seven years crammed into five years when you add those playoff games. And you look back at the history of the league and all these teams that had these four or five-year intense runs like that. And the guys would half the time break down at the end of them. It certainly happened with the Celtics in the 80s, and it happened to the Pistons. By the time they got to 91, it was just off a cliff. The Bulls kind of avoided it because Jordan went and played baseball for that year and a half, kind of pushed it off.

I was thinking about the other day because Robert Horry was saying how he thought the 94 or 95, he said on some podcast, the 94 and 95 rockets would have beaten the Bulls, which in a vacuum is a relatively insane statement. but when you think about the Bulls coming off three straight titles and losing Horace Grant, I do think the Rockets would have beaten them one of those years. Is he saying like if Jordan if Jordan never left? He's like if Jordan was there, we would have beaten them both times. I don't know about both times.

I don't think that's insane. Both times is probably crazy. But I mean, eight titles in a row, like that was not, that was probably not going to happen. It's not sustainable. Even people with the Bulls, like Steve Kerr has said they don't, he doesn't think that they would have won all those titles. Speaking of the Nuggets, just a quick one. Okay.

Cam Johnson Concern Scale. I was DefCon 2 and then the 0 for 4 today and I might now be at DefCon 1. It's been bad. Friday night I was on a couple different texts during that OKC Denver game. Three minutes left. I texted this game is going to come down to a wide open Cam Johnson 3. No way. Because, yeah, I have it.

I have the text. Wow. And the reason I said that was because he's been shaky enough in these games that they were clearly going to help off him in the biggest possession of the game and take their chances with him in the corner. And it's exactly what happened and he missed it. And it was a tie game with seven seconds left. This is why you go and trade him and trade that both of us loved. And he just said, hold on, hold on. Don't lump me in with you.

I thought, I thought Michael Porter Jr. was swept away like he was. I just lumped you in. What are you going to do about it? I said what I said. I lumped you in. I don't care if you didn't want to be lumped in. I needed a company with me in house. So you didn't like it.

You like Porter? I liked it because it also allowed them to get Valanchunis and fill out their bench a little bit. And it was clear some sort of financial relief was going to come. I just thought people were like wildly underestimating how good Michael Porter Jr. In the trade and how important his shooting was for Denver. Well, you were right. I also didn't think Cam Johnson's, moving so tentatively in some ways that I almost, you just have to wonder if he's still not

healthy all the way back from the various ailments that have heard him this season. Because he just, beyond the shooting numbers, which are actually for the season, all right, he just is not adding any like oomph to their ball movement, to their offense. It just isn't there. I looked up his crunch time stats and he's one for eight in crunch time. Small samples less. Small samples. But turns 30 this week.

But I just think they need him. They need them at the end of these games. They've had so many winnable games. It's so weird to see a Nuggets team. But they're still like five. We did this last week. We were saying how there are 500. There's still 500 over like 35 games now.

And they've blown so many games at the end of games, which I just didn't think was possible. Now, they have, Gordon's going to come back. That's going to change things. Watson. I'm not freaking out. No. But the Cam Johnson thing is significant, though, because he's somebody that if he, if he's not going to be out there and that spot.

when we're in the playoffs. Who is it going to be hard away? Who's it going to be? Who's it going to be in that corner that is going to make a break like a game four on the road somewhere? Because I don't, I don't, he's lost my trust, unfortunately. Well, Gordon and Watson answer a lot of those questions. But I mean, Yolkich had some more goofy turnovers by his, by his standards today. I think he had five turnovers.

And he's had a few turnovers in all these games where it's like, the defense is, is on his wavelength. Like they, I don't want to say they outthink him, but he doesn't outthink them. They see the past coming and pick it off,

which is unusual for him. And right now, they just have no, they have no size. Like, they're so small. They have no one. They have like Christian Browns

trying to guard Antony's all right at it. And Cam Johnson tried to guard Julius Randall, who didn't have a great game, but they just don't have any size outside of their centers right now. It is beginning,

again, you can't panic, can't overreact because all these guys are coming back. And we'll see if Aaron Gordon can stay healthy. but this last month with Yokic and the team not winning as much as you'd expect with Yokic still playing sensationally. It does have a feel of like sometimes it's just like it doesn't come together.

Sometimes it's just not, we're not there yet. But it's on my like radar of like it might just be the year it doesn't happen. And I expected it to happen like because I do think there's a legitimate great team in here. But yeah, sometimes you run out of time to find it. I mean, sadly, I'm deep down feeling the same way. The problem here is that Yokech is still having an all-time season and Murray is having the best season of his life. And we shouldn't have this many questions.

Also, when Gordon comes back, what level of Gordon are we getting? And also, is he coming back? We now have they played, so basically 20. We're entering the last quarter of the season. So he's going to come back and just be thrown into a four or five matchup against Minnesota where they're going to need him for like 35 minutes a game. And with a hammy, it's a hammy thing that just feels like it just keeps happening. That's the worry is that his combination of size, power on both ends,

defensive versatility, and he's now a proven 40 plus percent three-point shooter. They don't have anyone who combines all those things. That's why he's such a unique player. They have pieces of them and other players who have weaknesses. They get exploited elsewhere. And to get through the West, you need to be pretty damn close to 100 percent to get through all of these teams. I mean, these are five legit, really good teams.

Houston, who we're kind of both down on, and I think everybody is, is now in third in the West. And they're, whatever you think of them, they're going to make you feel some pain over a seven-game series, no matter who you are. The scared thing for Denver is four or five could be them in Minnesota, a team that loves playing Denver. It's very comfortable against them.

Doesn't mean they're going to beat them. And the Lakers now have the same number of losses as Denver. And it's been this Lakers season, a team we've written off 700 times. And it somehow has the exact same record as Denver. Okay, next topic. Oh, speaking of the West, the 7, 8, 9, 10 in the West is just officially bizarre. Where we have Phoenix at 34 and 26. Booker's still out.

Brooks is out, I guess, for the season. Golden State's 31 and 29, and it's going to be 31 and 32 in three games. I don't think they've said for the season with the Brooks, but time-wise it gets, I think it was four to six weeks. To the last week. I just wanted to be clear. I was like, did I miss something? I don't think I did. Golden State could be under 500 in three games.

Portland's at 29 and 32. The Clippers are at 27 and 31, but relying on Kowai and Garland, who aren't exactly Lou Gehrig. Clippers are about to win right now, by the way. All right. So they'll be 28 and 31. Portland lost, so they're 29 and 33. they lost to the Jonathan Cominga led Atlanta Hawks by 34 points. Crowd chanting.

Thank you, Warriors, during the Cominga game, as he had another one. Portland has a weird, obdi, a back injury thing that's going to knock him out of any possible NBA stuff, not that he was going to make it anyway. Golden State just said Curry needs at least 10 more days. That's starting to look a little, get a little whiff of, a little tanky whiff. Oh, I wouldn't. I don't know. If Curry, like, do you rush him back to play him hurt?

Or do you be like, you know what? Let's get the 10th pick in the draft. Okay. I mean, that's a, I mean, so you got to lose in the play-in then. You got to like, there's zero chance that any of these teams fall out. Yeah. Fuck it. We'll wait.

Steph, come back that week if you're healthy. Give me two teams you think are in the playoffs. 7-8, 9-10. Phoenix, Golds. Portland and Clippers. Pick two. I got to pick two. Two have to make it.

Two have to make it. Well, again, I'll tell you what, no one below them is even trying to win. So congratulations to the four play-in teams. Unless one of you passes the Lakers or Nuggets, you are in the play-end with 20 games left. We can celebrate. You can hang a banner.

I will go, I'll go Sun's Clippers. How about that? Sun's Clippers. Darius Garland coming back tomorrow. Kauai's Kau. I don't feel great about it, but I'll go Sun's Clippers. I don't love this stuff injury, and the team just feels like there's just a lot of

like De Anthony Melton and Guy Santos and Quentin Post going on, and all those guys are actually playing okay, but it just feels a little like a rickety mishmash of whatever. The box score is alarming. The one yesterday, they got killed by the Lakers. The box score is like, oh, my God, this is like a Brooklyn Nets lineup. I would also say Sun's Clippers. I really tried to talk myself into Portland. I watched the entire Portland Charlotte game.

My Hornets were playing at 10 o'clock Pacific time. I had to test drive that one. Portland really wanted the game and came in with a really hardcore defensive playing against, and I don't want to waste our Charlotte stuff because we're doing deep dive later. But really, like, it was the first time I've seen a team be like,

here's our strategy to take out Cinnipple. And they were doing all the stuff to try to take them out. Drew Holiday was playing really hard. I like clinging. They have good wings. Scoot Henderson, there's a lot of signs that he's, don't sell your scoot stock yet. Don't shake your head.

No, no. I did a whole Scoot Brandon Miller segment last two weeks ago and talked about scoot. I just didn't think that was a particularly good scoot game. Well, just there's some signs. They're getting more comfortable to giving him the ball and letting him do stuff. It would be nice if more of the signs went into the basket. But, you know, I'm just trying to be class half full of scoot. I've admitting defeat on the Brandon Miller scoot thing.

I'm officially admitting defeat. There's no other move. I mean, there's no other move. Brandon Miller. Brandon Miller is tremendous. It's really good. I love Brandon Miller. He's really looking Paul George, Jalen Brown-ish,

offensively. Like that could be, like, I think he could be 26 a game if he could stay healthy at some point in his career. All right. So we both say Phoenix and the Clippers. and yet the quippers could Kauai could be gone tomorrow. Okay.

I mean, yes, but if you're asking me to pick them, it's just, it's a little bit of a, I don't trust to go and say anything. Everything about it is weird, including that there is no 11th place team. You can just erase the last part of the standings

unless you're doing the reverse standings. You don't even need to look at them. Well, New Orleans might make a late surge chair. They're only 20 back, but they're one of the hottest teams of the Westford. He's behind the clippers in the lost column. Can they make that up? I don't know. The Warren's played really well.

Just killing the Hawks pick. Zion got hurt again, though. Not again. He'd played, Zion got hurt just as we got used to Zion playing. He's now hurt again. Hopefully it's minor. But this is just the story of some of these guys' careers. I hope we learned a lesson from this Pelicans pick with the Hawks.

Because we've seen this situation before. The Celtics were in it one year with the Cleveland pick. We've seen these teams have these. seemingly super choice picks, and the time to trade them as November, December, when they have maximum, look how good this pick's going to be. Because the truth is, the team whose pick you have has no incentive to stop trying in the last 30 games of the season. And they start playing some of these other tanking teams, and they're like, fuck it.

Well, what do we care? And they'll start winning, and all of a sudden you're in the ninth pick instead of the fourth pick. And I think Atlanta probably should have sent that pick pack in a while ago. If you want to be the ninth pick. If you watch the Pelicans, if a person who had never, who knows nothing about the NBA, watch the Pelicans play any of the other seven to eight teams who are tanking right now, they'd be like, well, that's got to be the best team in the league, right? Like this team's got to be by far the best team. So much better than this other team. Some of the tanking steps great. And then Sacramento's taking it a step further. There was some weird

internet rumor about that they want to sign Westbrook for next year that he's become a leader of the team, Sacramento. Goldsbury sent us that. And my response was that I think him being the GM

is the natural outcome for all of this. But putting him in charge of the team. I guess he's now, I mean, he's a king player. You have to be a king's player to really be in consideration to replace an established GM,

a former king's player. You have to put your time in. It's like prison. It's like you have to be in the yard for a couple years for the late you work in the library. I didn't even have the heart to respond to the text. I just, it's just too sad. Is it, would you say it's completely inconceivable that Russell Westbrook could some day be the Sacramento King's GM? No way.

I think that like I don't, if I'm surprised there are not odds on it already. Like it's like, maybe we could do it one of those weird prediction markets. Cal she put that bed down. Yeah. With Cal She. Just put some cash money on that. Yonis tweets out. By the way, look at Cal Sheet today for a new line on Russell Westbrook being the GM.

Drop to 50 to 1 on Fandall. What's Fandals 1? Fandall predictions. Okay. Next goofy question. What happens if Janus comes back this week? I'm so excited you brought this up. Miami is the, so right now we have 6, 7, 8, 9.

Philly's 31 and 27. Orlando's 31 and 28. Miami's 32 and 29. So they're all grouped together at 6, 7, 8. America's team, the Charlotte Hornets, is 30 and 31. Can't wait to do the deep dive with them. They're the 9 seed right now. Atlanta is 31 and 31.

Actually, they're the 9 seed right now. Charlotte's 10. And then Milwaukee is 26 and 33. So they are a couple losses behind basically everybody. Milwaukee was 8 and 3 in their last 11 until they lost the stupid game they lost today. Janice is looming. he could play the last 20 games. So if they go,

I don't know, could they get to 40 wins? It's possible they go 14 and 6. What happens? Could they make, all they'd have to do is jump one team and get to the 10th seed and then it's just playing playoff games. To me, Janice is not dead yet.

No, that little, this is this, I think people rode off the bucks and kind of forgot about the bucks and the Eastern Conference let the bucks stay alive because that stretch they had before All-Star was absolutely massive because it gave them the margin for error to come back to Earth. And this was a comeback to Earth weekend for the Bucks, two horrible losses, including

a blowout to the Bulls who had not won in literally a month. And yet, they're just still two games back in the Lost Scotland behind Charlotte and two games behind Atlanta, four games back at the heat. But all of these teams, like just look at their records in the last 10 games, Orlando, six and four, Miami five and five, Hawks, six and four. none of them have run away from the bucks. And like with Janus, the team makes sense. It makes enough sense to make up two games on an Atlanta Hawks team who only like kind

of makes sense as a basketball team. Orlando is, that's Orlando and Miami are taller hills to climb, but not on not teams without problem. I mean, Norm Powell just got hurt. He's going to miss a little bit of time. The sooner he comes back, the more interesting this gets because if they get into the playing and they're going full throttle with Janus, even if they're coming from the 9-10 seed, they got a hell of a chance to get in. And then it gets real interesting.

Then it turns into NBA Cup where it's just like, you have to be Yonis tonight or you're going home. And that's it. And Yonis really cares and actually wants to be in the playoffs. So Philly, Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, Atlanta, Milwaukee, pick three. That get into the playoffs? Yeah, just pick three right now for 6, 7, 8. I'm not even going to look at schedules. I will do Philly, Orlando. No. No, no. This is actually hard. Yeah, I know. This is hard. I'll go,

fuck it. I'm going to go Philly, Miami, Charlotte. Orlando's out. Which would just be the most wildly disappointing outcome for almost any team. So I would have had Orlando in the Miami spot there. I think Philly and Charlotte, I have them in. And Charlotte, I can't wait to do the deep depth. I mean, Miami just,

Miami's their way in. It's just, that's the thing. Did you see the Houston, any of the Houston thing? I did. I saw the whole game. Until that game,

I was like, they're going to, you know, this is not going to be the year for them, whatever. I don't know. They showed,

they had a little feistyness in that game. And we always see around now, there's one team that kind of gets hot or does whatever. And I don't know if they're that good, but that,

I don't know, you watch them. And the team kind of makes sense now that when they have everybody and if they can get Hero going a little bit, so I would probably say Philly, Miami, Charlotte. Orlando,

more likely they make the playoffs or they change coaches for the end of the season? I will go make the playoffs because I think I just, the history of this front office is that they act slowly and I think they will now give,

especially given how much time Fonz in particular has missed, I think they give this thing till the end of the season. that was an awful loss today. They're up seven and a half time. They lose by 14. Bad.

Atlanta doesn't have their pick. So no real reason for them to throw it in. That's why, like, Milwaukee, if they were 28 and 31 instead of 26 and 33, I'd be more excited. I think they're probably a little bit too far back. But I was thinking with Detroit, this is such a strange situation for them to be in, right? It's like they're going to get the one seed.

They might have the best record in the whole league. And the prize for getting the one seed could be their Philadelphia with them beat and George back. Miami, the fucking heat culture, weird voodoo Miami team. Charlotte, who's been awesome for 32 games now, like a legitimate kind of offensive juggernaut. And none of those matchups are fun. Like none of them. It's great. That's what the playoffs are supposed to be.

Let's not have any pushovers. I mean, I think Orlando would be a pushover. I don't think they'd be a pushover. If they were fully healthy, I don't think they'd be a pushover. I think the Hawks would be a pushover for Detroit. I just think... Orlando's not going to be fully healthy, and you know they're not going to be fully healthy. Cross that off.

Unlikely. When Suggs plays two games in a row, it's like a shock. It really makes you feel good when you turn on the magic game and Suggs is playing. I love watching Suggs play. I'm like, all right, this team just be careful. came 25% more entertaining to watch. Yeah. Cleveland, who won today, barely?

Another dorky combo. If you're Cleveland, do you care if you're just, you're the four seed, you play Toronto in round one? Do you care? No, I don't think you care about your seed at all. If you're Cleveland, you just need to get as healthy as possible. And, like, you know what you're being judged on. And I wouldn't stress about three, four, one, two.

You've had your ups and downs against all the teams currently above you in the standings. You just got to play. On Fandole, they were plus 125 for the 4th seed and 11-1 for the 5-seat. If I'm them, I just want everyone running full steam second week in April. I don't care if I'm playing Toronto and I don't mind playing Detroit. I don't think they would think they can beat Detroit. They have more offense, more stuff to bring the table. Trudeau had really had a chip on his shoulder on Friday night.

I thought that was just to bring him off the bench, like possessed doing that crazy Schroeder stuff, I thought it would be fun. But I think that team, you know, the Sam Meryl piece has defraid the fact that they missed on DeAndre Hunter. Dean Wade is, I guess, just the exit stage right. What he put, first of all,

he's been starting for them for the most part since, since the team got fully formed again. when he plays decently, they are very hard to beat. He's a minor role player, but they really like him and they keep giving him chances and they keep seeing him through these months where

it feels he hits like two threes in a month and then I'll have a game or it's like he's four or six from three and that's all he does other than play a great defense but yeah, but it helps but at least they turn Hunter into Schroeder and Keon Ellis. Like at least they got two guys that can play for them

in that deal. body language doctor likes their chemistry too. I like some of the stuff I saw on the sidelines from Mitchell and Hardin. Looks like Mitchell and Hardin like each other. Honeymoon Hardin is just, it's really kicked in. Scott, I don't know.

Did you create Honeymoon Hardin? Is that you are? I think I did. I'll take it. Next topic. I texted this to you, so you're actually prepared for this one. Normally like to sneak attack you with topics.

Perimeter defender is better than the Thompson's. All right. Let me bring up my list. I asked you to make a list. Who's actually better than these guys? Primitive defenders. We're not talking big guys. We're not talking tiny guards or small guards.

No, I don't. The answer is I'm not sure anybody is. Although I think they both are, no player is perfect. But I think here, so here are the names I wrote down. It's just like these are the guys you at least have to consider. Tell me how many names you wrote down before you tell me the names. I wrote like 15 names down because I go big. I go big all the time.

But I have, I wrote down 10 names. Yeah. Okay. Louor Who is the Caruso Yep They were not my first name

No I'm just I just went down Standing's order Okay And I'm gonna omit some ones That I don't think are serious I think The game is The fan bases won't take that

Personally at off You forget somebody So I'm just gonna serve Like I'm not gonna mention Hugo Gonzalez After saying I'm not mentioning I'm sorry Hugo You don't get into this one

The Lama The Lama haircut Doesn't get you in I think Jada McDaniels deserves a word Derek White doesn't have the size, but I left him off because I think there's certain guys that he probably can't guard.

I still think Pete Kauai needs to be on this list. He can't bring it every night, but when he really, really brings it, he might still be the best perimeter defender in the NBA for a game or a quarter. Yeah. Dyson Daniels. And you're running out.

I left him off. You're running out at guy, and I don't mind leaving him off. You run out, like, I think Peyton Watson could get into this conversation. O.G. Ananoby. Had him. I had Kamara. Kamara's on my list.

That's a good one. I had Scotty Barnes. He's on my list, too. I was waiting. I wanted you to bring up Scotty Barnes, but I had him on my list. Here's my descending order. I had McDaniels first. I had the Dorton-Cruisle combo, Castle, Annanobie.

I had Comara, Kawhi, Barnes, and Bridges all next to each other. And I had Ann Edwards because I think when he really wants to guard for a possession, I think he's as good as anybody. I'm not saying he's doing it all game. If it's 30 seconds left and I need to play defense and I have him and McDaniels. I just saw it. I went to the Quipper game the other night. And the reason I had McDaniels so high is he snatched Ben Matherin's soul from his body for two hours.

He just, he reached inside his heart. pulled it out. And by the fourth quarter, Mathuron, who's like a really confident guy, like walks around with his chest out and it really seems alpha-Aid was just like deer in the headlights and couldn't solve it. McDaniels is terrifying. And he's the only one I've seen in person other than when Kauai gets into that. I will now take the ball when he gets into that mode. He's the only one I've seen at the level with the Thompson's. Castle, even though he guarded Durant, which was one of the great things that random things of the season, I'm not

sure if there's certain guys, like, could he guard bigger guys like Jalen Brown, bigger physical forwards? I'm not sure he's big enough to guard those guys, but McDaniels is. But you cannot say enough, I mean, you cannot say enough about how good

Castle and Harper are as defenders this soon into their career. Because the experience factor, although the Thompson twins are not super experienced either, is what makes it hard to put them on like this sort of apex level. But those guys, I mean, they guard up in size so well. You put them on, they brought Brandon Ingram in a recent Spurs Raptors game.

Dylan Harper closed the game on Brandon Ingram and kind of clapped them a little bit. And I'd mention how Castle Guarded Kat and Brunson in the same game. Like they are up for the Durant game I'd forgotten about when he kind of bodied up Durant. And like, Durant was like, what's happening? Is this a foul? What's going on? They, they are big and rangy. and they want all the smoke.

Like those guys are so far ahead of the curve defensively. It's crazy. Jalen Brown is in the vicinity for this. If it's one of those games or he's really fired up to play defense. But it's bigger guys. It's like Luca type guys. It's the more physical type of wings that he's really good at defending. And really has been for the last few years.

I would not respectfully not put Jailen Brown in this conversation. I know. I'm just saying certain games. The other one, and I think, thought about this the other day at this, clipper game I was at I.O. is like, first of all, three inches taller than I was prepared for in person. I don't know why the TV made me think he was like 6-1, but I felt like he was the same height as Anthony Edwards.

I could figure it out. Big, big shoulders and just, when they had him, McDaniels, and Edwards, all out there at the same time against a team that really didn't have a point card. Chris Dunn was the only sort of point guard on the clippers. everyone was terrified to bring the ball up. Nobody was happy about it.

But I thought that was interesting. He's a great fit. You know, I mean, you know who's furious right now? Who? Dylan Brooks is furious. Dylan Brooks is going to pick up the rare podcast technical for arguing. So he's just off the list. He's hurt.

We don't even consider him. I had a honorable mention. He's hurt. We might not see him again this season. Well, this leads to the next question. Pick one as a defender. Of who? Houston Thompson?

or Detroit Thompson? Houston Thompson. I think Houston Thompson is ahead of Duke. I don't like doing the brothers thing. It makes me sad to pit the brothers against each other like this. But it hurts my soul. But I'm picking Amen Thompson. I think he scales down positionally a little easier than Assar does.

Assar might guard up a little bit better. But I think Amen Thompson can guard anybody. And he just, his speed. I mean, they're both unbelievable. But I'd pick Amen. So I give him a slight edge as well. I think Osar's is

the single scariest guy to bring the ball up against like when he's really in I'm going to try to get a steal as you bring the ball up mode I think he's number one who's scarier than him you know I was watching a game

it was a tank off game and I watched it because I just this is what I do I watched Grizzlies Kings Scottie Pippin Jr. Oh he's another good one. I shit you not didn't you have three steals in a row or something?

Four consecutive steals while the Kings were bringing the ball up. And it was almost like, let's just cancel the game. If this is what's going to happen, send everybody home, refund the tickets. It's a great night out for Scotty Pippin Jr. game over. See, that's another guy. Like, why didn't a contender try to get him? He's been injured the whole year.

I don't care. Like, they just, it's like free second round pick for him, right? Memphis turning down a second round pick for Scotty Pippen. I don't think so. and he's been hurt most of the year. I wanted to see him in a playoff series. Okay, next question. So the all-MBA,

it feels like we've separated to Yoka, J.S.G.A., Kade, and Wembe are levitating in that top group now. And then we have a next five of Ant and Mitchell and Jalen and Luca and Maxi in some order. Aunt Mitchell, John. The writing this down.

Aunt Mitchell, Jailen, Luca, Maxi are in the mix. there's a first team spot open, but then the next question is, I only listed nine guys. Who is the inside track for the 10th spot? If I gave you Brunson, Kauai, Jamal Murray,

Duren, Durran, Durant, Barnes, Amman Thompson, etc., etc. Who's your 10th? Who's the 10th best part in the league right now from an all-in-bae standpoint, in your opinion? Assuming eligibility, Kauai Leonard. Okay, I agree with you. And he's got, like, and then I put Brunson next.

So Brunson, when I did this, I had Brunson, Maxi. I had Maxi third team. Oh, so you have Maxi out of that group and Brunson in the group? I had, I had Kauai second team when I did my draft of NBA teams. All right. So there's nine plus Brunson, Kauai, Murray, and Duren. That's 13. Which means there's two spots left for everybody.

Not to mention we might lose some eligibility guys. We've already lost Curry. Booker's at 16 now. Not that he was going to make it anyway, but he's probably getting balanced. Yokage only has two left. Wembe has four left. Kauai, I think, has four.

Obdi is going to be out. We might not have enough all-NBA guys, is I guess my bigger point. Well, you didn't mention Duran. I didn't mention Duran. I mean, you got to mention Duran. You're not going to put Duran on third team all-NBA. You're going to put other...

Okay. I mean... I didn't say I wouldn't. Were you on the text thread? Were you mentioned? It wasn't. I take stuff like the, whatever the hell happened, an All-Star weekend, I think has to count in your All-N-B-A candidacy.

Well, you know what else counts? That's the weirdest story of the year. 26. I get it. On 50, 40-90 shooting. Yeah. He's, I had him. I have 13 guys listed.

Then look, I'll even show you. Bubble, Durant, top guy. So he would be on my third team if the season ended today. You didn't even mention him. Why, he's in my bubble list with Durant, Barnes, Thompson. I mentioned him as a bubble guy. Okay. And I don't know if any, the only person that I think the nerds might take and grab a hold of

and grab the flame and start bringing it outside the wall, I could see a chet momentum just for the defensive impact. We need two OKC guys in the Ombia. I could see that unfolding. I know how you feel about that one. Yeah, I mean, I could certainly see it unfolding because there is always that ground swell of, well, this team has to have X amount of people, which I don't really believe in. I just, I've been wanting him to do a little bit more on offense in some of these games

without Shea and Jalen Williams and A.J. Mitchell and on and on-da-da. Chet hasn't scored 20 points in a game since January 27th. it's just been too many like 13, 15, 17. And this is like, look, the defense is unimpeachable. He's unbelievable. The fact that he could shoot threes is a huge spacing boon for their offense. He's amazing. I just think this level of conversation, there's only 15 spots.

I, for me, I, there's 20 games left. So we'll see. He's just, he's out and the outside looking in. But not by much. It's not like a huge slight, you know, just player 19 or 18 or 17. He's an all-star And I don't know NBA guy

You haven't mentioned one guy That maybe you mentioned him When you listed him often I missed it But did you mention Jalen Johnson? I had him in the bubble list Okay She is minus 260 for MVP

Yokej is plus 450 Kade is 10 to 1 Inexplicable because if SGA misses five more games I think Kade's going to win the MVP I can't bet on it Because I have over Wemby Wemby

Wemby's at 25 to 1 and I think the Spurs would have to basically lose two more games the rest of the year and be the one seat and have the best record in the league for it to be a serious combo. I'm not even sure some games that feeds the best guy in the game for his team, even though I know like the Detroit game Monday, what he did defensively was incredible, all that stuff. Luca's dropped to 100 to 1 after a pretty tough week for Luca. 100 to 1?

Yeah. Wow. Oh, that's my next dorky thing I wanted to bring up to you. And then we're going to do the Charlotte Deep dive. Luca's MVP finishes by year. This is his eighth year. Didn't finish first year, fourth, second year, sixth third year, fifth, eighth, third,

didn't get any votes last year. This is year eight, and he's not going to be in the top four. So he's only had one third place finish and one fourth place finish. This would be after eight years. If I had told you this during his rookie year, as we watched how good he was, would you have ever guessed this? No, and in fact, I feel like I've picked him as my preseason MVP at least twice.

He's been like a preseason odds on favorite to win MVP, maybe more times than that. And so, yeah, I realize the whole conversation is now shifting into, and there was a whole, will he ever win a championship conversation this year, that I feel like is a little bit premature. But, yeah, I am surprised. Part of it is that, you know, if you look at his game log, he's only cracked 70 games a couple of times. There's some sort of COVID-related, shortened seasons in there.

But it is surprising. I thought he would have won an MVP by now. I thought he would have won an MVP for the Dallas Mavericks by now. So everything about what's happened is a little bit surprising. Good point. Yeah, when we're moving into the 2020s and if we had a who is the most likely got to win one MVP this decade draft. I think he would have been the first pick.

It's just Taylor made like he's the whole offense is going to revolve around him. His passing does make most types of players better. He's had playoff success basically since he came into the league. He's been a good playoff player like going back to the bubble, etc. It just seemed like absolutely no-brainer. Like you'd be shocked if a guy like this didn't win an MVP. He's 286 and 210 regular season, 287 now, 26 and 29. the playoffs. Never has won

I think 52 games is his highest with Dallas. Because he's missed a decent amount of games. He's missed the kinds of numbers of games that turn a 55 win team into a 47 win team. All right, it's time. Hornets deep dive.

We're really doing this. I'm going to start us off with some Hornets facts. You know all of this. I'm just going to sit back and soak it in. They haven't made the playoffs in 10 years. Last time they made the playoffs was the last year

of Barack Obama's second term. Since their expansion comeback year in 2005, three playoff appearances. As a franchise, because for whatever reason, we include the 1988 to 2002, whatever,

they haven't won a playoff round since 2002, which was also the year they moved. They don't have a single number that they could retire of this century. Unless you want to talk yourself into a Kemper Walker night just for the emotional night. Or Al Jefferson night?

Kemper would be the one. Dev made the Eastern Finals once, even going back to the morning LJ era, just in the last few years. They drafted Shea Gilgesa Alexander 11th and immediately traded him for Miles Bridges in two seconds. I forgot this happened. Oh, yeah.

They drafted Jalen Duren and immediately traded him for a future first in three seconds and the future first became Nick Smith Jr. He took Saloon one pick before Donovan Klingin. They spent a lottery pick on James Booknight. So it's the thing that happened.

Last year they were 19 and 63. They started out 4 and 14 this season so they were 23 and 77 in 100 games over two seasons. And since then something magical has happened. They're now 30 and 31. Their last 32 games, Zach Lowe, 21 and 11. Their first overall

net rating plus 9.8 in the last 32 games of any NBA team. First and offensive rating, 121.4, which would be nearing the all-time high. They have 21 wins. 15 of 21 were by double digits, including their last four in a row, and they're 14 and 3 in their last 17 games. I have more, but let's all start there. This has been the most dramatic turnaround in season. of anyone that I can remember. Any other time this has happened, there's been signs. Like OKC, the year when OKC became like a 500 team, it's like, yeah, I could see this building all year.

This was like, this is like a fun league past team that will never actually be a playing team. This year there's no way. And yet they're going to be a playing team and might even win the division. The division. I forgot about the division. The southeast division.

They could win the division. Oh, my God. Right now the odds in the division. they are plus 460 Orlando is plus 135 and Miami's plus 155 on Fando I still like Charlotte to win the division but look there you go

so you go well I just go I can give you a couple more stats if you want to but first of all I just I implore whatever team wins this division do not hang a banner even you Charlotte

do not hang a banner if they go 44 and 38 win the division. I'm allowing the banner. No banner. Any team that hangs division banners should be shamed at all times.

I'll give you this. The Ball, Miller, Kinpel, Bridges Diabate lineup is plus 179 in 281 minutes. That's like, that is preposterous. That is the number one.

That's lineup of death. That is the number one plus minus for any lineup in the NBA. Number two is the piston starting lineup at plus 131. So 48 points, quote, worse than the Hornets. And they've played almost twice as many minutes. Plus 179 in 2801 minutes is insane. And somebody that wasn't playing for like, what, the first six weeks, basically? It's a perfect storm of

In all the attention on Caniple And he's been unbelievable And I don't want to I don't want to besmirch anything about your illegitimate son But he's been this constant metronome of productivity The entire season Ball up and down But Miller has leveled up and stayed there

For like a month and a half to two months now And something about the way Diabate fits with this group of the starting five it's a perfect storm of Miller, Diabate, Lamello, kind of chilling a little bit with some of the crazy stuff and just be playing a simpler game in a lot of ways.

It's all clicked together. And I mean, we're what? You just said 30, 35, 40 games into this being like, this is a real team. This is, this is, I don't quite know where we're heading with it, but it's a real team. And as you're going to get into,

the way this has happened is incredibly unusual. in modern NBA history. The crazy thing about Lamello, because if you weren't really following or watching the games or even looking at the stats, how much you would think like, oh, it's Lamello's healthy

and the team took off. He only plays like 27 minutes a game. He's in a weird way. I don't want to call him a luxury, but this is really built around Khan and Miller and Diabate and then Lamello, when he's good,

they become almost unstoppable. Now they have this Kobe, The Kobe White trade, which we did the trade deadline thing. It was like, oh, cool. I like Kobe White more than Colin Sexton. It's a really important trade for them for a variety of reasons. One, which I totally forgot until I was watching the game on Saturday. Like, he's a North Carolina guy.

Like, Roy Williams was there to see Kobe White. And Kobe White's like loves being in Carolina. He's like, they're going to be able to resign him and they're going to make him like a part of stuff. Kobe White's stats, last three years, he was 19, five, four, 37% from three, made almost three-threes a game. He's like the perfect guard to just add to this. And also more importantly, gives them lamello insurance. If Lamello ever gets wacky or gets hurt or anything, right?

Well, I mean, Colin Sexton was playing really well for them. And you could probably find the stats for him are not so dissimilar from what you just said about Kobe White. In fact, they're not. I know, but I'm talking styles of player. I just like Kobe White's game more. He's more of a basketball player. He's a bigger, more dynamic, more diverse kind of player than Colin Sexton. Who can play off the ball, on the ball.

Like, he can, I just think he fits better for what they're doing. He's a little bigger. He's got a little more defensively. I think he can help them. And I think that when they play that lineup of death you mentioned, but then you can move Kobe into the Llamelo spot. It's still a really good team. We can't call it the lineup of death because the death lineup is taken and it's the

word lineup. I'm just trying to give Charlotte as many bones as far as. possible. It's sitting there in front of us. How about the buzz saw? The buzz saw line up. The buzzsaw lineup. I like it.

Just the first draft. We can workshop it. So you mentioned something on one of your pods the other day. I can't remember. I think you were talking maybe about Detroit. Maybe it was a Lego. You were talking about Detroit only has one guy that can really create a shot. But they have all these guys who know how to do all these things and they can kind of patch it together.

but really they only have one guy I can create a shot. And you could feel it at the game on Friday night against Cleveland when Cade fouled out, which for some reason has happened more than once this season. Kate fouled out and it's like, oh shit, what do we do now and they try to patch it together? By the way, you know, part of the reason why Cade gets in foul trouble here and there

because he tries hard on defense. He tries to make plays on defense. That's part of it. Well, he doesn't get the respect either from I don't think he gets the superstar respect. The Hornets have five guys who can create a shot. Like for real, con can do it.

Brandon Miller, obviously. Lamello can get by anybody. Kobe White could create a shot. Miles Bridges can create a shot. So anytime it's like eight seconds left, play screwed up or whatever, wherever the ball is, somebody can kind of do something with that

or you can set a screen. That's one thing. The threes are out of control. They're averaging 17.1 made threes during this 32 game streak where they're 2111. 17.1. They're shooting 40. a game. They're 40% from

three, which leads the league. But they're also second in rebounds, which is nice, because Cinnipple rebounds, Lamello Rebounds, Bridges. Every guy in the team goes and grabs rebounds. And then when you just think about, if I know I'm getting 173s a game,

I can kind of have a bad game and still be in the game. You know? Like, I can still hang around. I can still, I can be down nine and then all of a sudden I'm down three. I don't know. And they have 320 points scores. I really believe in this team.

And then we didn't even mention Grant Williams who came back. The shooting stats aren't great. But they kind of needed one more glue guy who kind of knows where to go and how to move on defense. So they have Lamello and Khan and Miller and Bridges. They have White. They have

Williams, Diabate, and Kalkbrenner and Josh Green, I guess. Josh Green has given them really nice minutes. As a 10th guy, as their swing defender. And he and Cian James are kind of the wing guys that come off the match. Kind of the wild card wings. But Josh Green has been the best

version of what Josh Green is. Like, you know he's not going to shoot much. He's going to play some defense and hit corner threes and move the ball. And he's done all of that for them. Do you value this? Nine in a row on the road? Love road wins. I'm a sucker for road wins. All right. I'm about to

take this up a level to crazy town. But do you want to say something normal before I do that? I do, and I want to delight you in saying it. Because you mentioned this. First of all, I do, I think you undersold Lamello a little bit in saying the team is built around Kinniple and Miller and Lamello kind of floats in as a bonus. All the lineup data suggests that their offense is awesome when Lamello's on the floor.

And now this may change with White because they can keep two of these four guys on the floor at all times, which is used for them. But their offense without Lamello has not been very good. And even like some, I don't have it all sort of in front me that I did it a couple weeks ago. Like even like the Miller and Kinnipple, No Lamello lineup was just so-so at one point. But anyway, so I think you undersold him a little bit. But I'm just like, I was projecting the white being able to do a reasonable facsimile of a lead guard for them. I just think his level of creation is is unbelievable.

His knack for floaters. He's getting, he's trying to get to the rim more. But I, and you mentioned the shooting. Like, Lamello is an elite three-point shooter. It's just masked by the fact that he took so many difficult threes that deflated his but he's an elite three-point shooter. And everyone knows Knieppel is a great shooter and just said they just sort of just, it's like at the end of the sentence about him, they have this Knapple is unbelievable shooting.

He is, this is one of the greatest shooting seasons anyone has ever had in the history of basketball. And I just, I did the basketball referencing for you. There are six seasons in the history of the NBA, six individual player season. and Caniple is on pace to be seven and he's almost going to do it this week. 2,000 minutes, so you can't be like a role player who comes in in Poch threes.

43% or better from three. He's at 44% right now. At least eight threes per 36 minutes attempted. Six player seasons total. Here are the six. Steph Curry, Steph Curry, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson,

Desmond Bain, Duncan Robinson. and at 1,900 plus minutes about to be Khan Knappel. Wow. And the Clay Thompson is the comp, because that's who he reminds me of like a Clay Thompson coaching tree kind of player the way. He just reminds me of him with some of the stuff he does,

but he moves kind of smartly in the paint and stuff. He does stuff Clay never did. Clay was always around the fringes for the most part. Khan also has this little John Havlicek side when he can like muscle in and get like a little 10 footer, 12 footer. But when they set those picks, it really reminds me of clay.

Those little like quick flare picks when all of a sudden he's wide open for a split second, he makes him. They move their best offensive players around in such creative ways all over the floor. Charles Lee and his staff deserve a lot of credit. They've really maximized three guys

who you look at them and think, well, teams should be able to switch a lot of actions between these guys. And it's just they've made it really hard to keep track of it. everybody. All right. Are you ready?

I'm so excited. We're going to Crazy Town. Let's go. The 2013 Warriors. Okay. 47 and 35, 40% from three led the league. Upset Denver in round one, lost to San Antonio in round two. We were working at Grandin together.

League was not as good. That 2013 Warriors team with those two guys and David Lee, basically, Was Bogan on that team yet? He was. Yeah. Just the league just wasn't as good. And that was probably a 41, 41 team now. That was a 51 win team.

No, they were 47 and 35. Oh, 1213. You're talking 1213. I'm talking that first Warrior season. That's the team. Yeah. Curry was 22 a game. Clay was 17 a game.

Combined, there are 6.1 made threes. People didn't shoot the threes as much back then. as that season evolved, we were like, something's like really here. This is headed somewhere. And then when they beat Denver was, what, 56 wins that year, Thai Lawson team. Aguadal's on that team,

George Carrow was a big upset. And then they lost to the spurs the next round. But Curry, everything about it felt like something special to happen. So that summer, they make a big move for Igwada. They had Draymond on the team as a rookie, but he blossomed in the second year. They go 51 and 31. there was the Clipson 7,

Curry and Clay jump up, and then the next season was the season. My crazy town question for you is could this Con Miller-Lamllo threesome be the same kind of foundation that Curry and Clay were for that Warriors team? And could you actually, like, see a path for this nucleus

with some of the caps, some of the picks, which I want to go through, adding one more guy, could this be like a real playoff team a year from now? There's no question going to be a real playoff team a year from now. And I do think adding one more guy has to be part of the recipe.

But I think the Warriors comp, you're now copying them to what becomes an all-time, incredible team. That's why I said we're going to crazy town. A nucleus for you have to include Draymond in the, can this be Steph and Clay. But I'm saying that that first year, Draymond's not, he's an, it's just curry and clay, basically, with Boget and Harrison Barnes is on there at that point. But it's not, Draymond. We didn't know who Draymond was as a. potential like dynasty guy. That's the year. That's the year to point to because more than the regular season and even

more than the Denver series, because Gallin already gets hurt right before that series and it kind of upends their team, the Spurs loss, that was the final proof of concept for me. I remember vividly thinking it at the time, writing about it at the time talking to people with the Warriors the next season and beyond about that series. And the, remember the first two games in that series were in San Antonio and they were wild games. Warriors split the games and then Steph gets hurt in the series and kind of limbs through it. Bogot gets hurt in that series and kind of limbs through it. They lose in six.

But just like the gold standard of NBA defense ran in to something that they didn't know what to do with. They just were like, we don't, this guy's pulling up from 30 feet and we're supposed to defend this. Like this is not how we were told basketball was. That series was the series where the Warriors became the Warriors to me. And then it just snowballed from there. This team is going to be an awesome offensive.

team. They could be a 50 win team next year. I don't think that's out of bounds at all. Like that kind of leap, this is a real thing. That kind of leap is there. I do think one more ad is key. And then the Draymond thing I bring up only because the Warriors were in elite defensive team right away when they started to play him. And I think that's the big question for this team is how do they become a top 10? But that really was until the 67 win season when Lee got hurt. And then Draymond's minutes went way up. right? That was the year when it bloomed. That was year three of this.

The David Lee injury was a big part of their team. 13, 14, they were third in defense. 12. 13, they were 12th in defense. Right. The Bogot-Ellis trade obviously also changed the trajectory of their team. But that's the question for the, for, and maybe Diabate has answered some, but they're up to 17th in defense now. And this did not look like a team that could be an average defense.

So they're trending the right way. Well, how about this? In that 32 game streak, the 21 and 11th, their eighth net rating. Trending the right way. And Kalkbrenner off the bench is a real guy defensively. Like he's a problem defensively. The perimeter guys will all get better. And they know exactly what they want to be defensively.

So they're number one in opponent free throw rate and number one in defensive rebounding, which means they do not beat themselves. You have to beat them. And they allow the second fewest corner threes in the league. And I said this way early in the season. All these numbers have been there since the start of the season. And just the other mistakes they were making were sabotaging their defense. But like the groundwork was laid for a competent defensive team.

They had a structure. They had things they wanted to accomplish. And they were starting to accomplish them. And now the other parts of their defense have caught up and their offense is completely exploded. But that's the question to me is can they become like a top 10 to 11 defense in the NBA and if they can, I think, I don't see why 50 wins is out of bounds next year. Why would it be?

And that would be a huge jump. What are they going to win this year? I don't know. Maybe they could win 44 this year, 42, but yeah, 50 something next year. Why not? I've been pretty good over the years at identifying when some team has, like, just being a year early on somebody, I remember the OKC, the year they finished 40 and 42, right? it was the

22-23 season. Now, it didn't take a rocket science to think that a team with a bunch of draft picks and Shay, we knew at that point, was going to be special, like that they were going to be really good. But I remember,

and I remember talking about the podcast at the time, they played LeBron in the game when LeBron broke the record. And watching them and how they handled that whole experience, and they just kind of wanted to keep the game going because they were trying to beat the Lakers. They just had a calmness and a competitiveness to them.

I was like, there's something really here. I feel that way about the Hornets. I felt that way about those Warriors teams in that 13 season where I was like, there's something actually really here. This isn't just like a fun story. Like, there's like something special brewing. And I really feel that way with this Hornets team. I don't think this is like, I know they're not even 500 yet.

They're 30 and 31. But I think they have the foundation, especially the white trade. they have, I don't know if Bridges is their long term or not, and I assume Lamello is. But they have this Dallas pick that's top two protected in 27. It's a great asset. They have a Miami pick that's top 14 protected this year and unprotected in 27. The Rozier pick. What is their Igudala move is my question?

Because Golden State came out of that 47 and 35 season. Dremont wasn't Dremont yet. They were basically curry and clay and some barns. but their big move is Igu Dada. They dumped some contracts. They added two first round picks. They went and got this amazing fourth banana for them. And that made their team go up a level.

Could it be Janice? Could it be Bam out of bio? Could it be Anthony Davis? Could it be Trey Murphy? Could it be somebody like Isaiah Hartenstein? OK, so you're just trying to get off his money. There's not as many candidates as you think, but I think that's the next step for this.

I think it's a playoff warrior guy that can come in and be like a one of your five guys. Well, and they have time. Like, it's funny how fast this goes in the NBA because this is a feel good story right now. And, and, you know, they don't have all three of Kniepple and Miller and Lamello on Max's deals until 28, 29. And then they will. I'm sorry, until 2930. That's the end of Knapples' Rookie Deal. So they have time.

but they got to use these next two or three years to take advantage of that salary cap space and that cap tax apron flexibility that will go away if and when all three of those guys are on max deals and get someone in the door who can help them win now because they're going to be ready to win big and I do think it needs to be somebody who

I don't want to, I don't even think you need to lean defense. I just think you need to be a good defensive player and fill some gaps on defense because that's, and probably have some size. But they should absolutely be active trying to find. Like they were one of my favorite just for total for fun. I didn't think they would do it nor do I think they should do it.

But like Anthony Davis popped into my head when Nico Harrison got fired like too expensive, too old. But Bam is a good name. I don't think the heat ever want to trade Bam. But like a guy a guy like that who who defends but doesn't gum up your offense, which is obviously hard to find. But they're going to be on the hunt for somebody because these three guys together, this is a real thing what they're doing.

offensively. They have all their own first-run picks plus those two other ones. The other piece is new owners, which is similar to the Warriors situation, right? The Warriors brought, they makeup and those guys bought that team right around 2011-12. So it was like early on, and they've kind of revamped the back. They're actually spending money, which is, you know, the secret problem with Charlotte was Jordan was one of the worst owners of all time. You know, we love Michael Jordan. He was just a terrible owner who was cheap and made bad decisions. It was poorly run behind the scenes. To hire Charles Lee, who's great, who by the way, Charles Lee was involved with the box when they won the title and the Celtics one they won the title. And I think is one of the

best coaches in the league. They're not that far away. When you think like the foundation of those three guys versus like Curry, who turned out to be one of the all-timers, just Curry and and Clay versus those three together, talent-wise, it's like you're at least in the vicinity and then you can patch it around. I think the canipple piece, you know, all jokes aside, but he's 20 and he's putting up stats that a 27 year old would do and the stuff they're doing with him in games. Like to have somebody who's that young, who you have on a rookie contract that you can still kind of build around, it's a little reminiscent of when the Warriors had that huge discount for Curry forever, right? What was he making like 10 million a year for like

years and years? I think he was like a four year, $44 million extension or something. Yeah, they were able to just patch shit around. That's basically the Kniepahs contract. Lamello's a max and they're going to have to pay Brandon Miller this summer I think and he's earned the contract now. And speaking of Lamello I am like an all-time

Lamello defender. I never got off the Lamello is a good thing. And I do think it'd be interesting to have a conversation with him because winning is this weird feedback loop where finally the team is winning and I do think he's modulated his game as much as young lamello ball can modulate his game like a lot of the crazy early clock

threes they're being trimmed down a little bit that he's trying harder on defense and more consistently on defense there's always going to be moments where like only lamella ball could take that shot there's the only player in the league who would do that but i do think he's playing like a calmer more just clean normal style of basketball and i wonder i would love to ask him like in these previous years with Charlotte, what was to stop him from doing whatever he wanted? He couldn't look around the roster and being, well, that guy can shoot

and that guy should shoot and that guy should shoot and we're losing anyway. They had a couple good play in years with Borago and stuff, but now he looks around. He's like, that guy's fucking awesome. That guy's scoring more points than me. And we're winning all these games. And all of a sudden, we have a lot of hype around us

and a lot of buzz, no pun intended. Maybe I can take, maybe I can just take 12 shots tonight and 15 shots the next game and 11 shots the next game and not take 25 shots and have a usage rate that's gargantuan and everything's cool. And I do think there's, I think his game is changing a little bit in that sense. I was completely out. I didn't think he was going to get it. And usually by year six, if there's no signs of life, it's not happening. But I'm with you. I think, I think he's toned back a lot of stuff. What's interesting about him on this team and why he's such a good fit in so many different way.

And again, he's playing 27 minutes a game. Like they're very careful with not putting too much on it. Remember they brought him off the bench a few times? Yeah, like back to backs. They're easing them in. They'll get a rebound and he can do what Maxi is a good parallel to this where he's just off. Right. And he's like full speed.

They have they're not just like this half court team or this team of three point shooters. They also have this fast break side. And when he's off, these guys split to the sides and they know what to do. And it's really hard to defend. at home, they're finally starting to get some sellouts. Like there's some real energy for some of these games. I think they're going to be really dangerous. Talk about a team that fans are dying to love.

And I mean, like, local fans. I feel so bad for their fans. They're waiting to fall in love with a team like this. And it's like, I hope they make the playoffs. I would love, I mean, Pistons Hornets, round one would be unbelievable theater. That's a terrifying series if you're the Pistons, because you're playing a team that started out 4 and 14

and has basically been a 50 win team since. And they're going to come out. And that's who you're getting as the eight seed. And they're going to come out. Like, I don't ever see them deviating from how they play because it's the playoffs. They're going to play fast. They're going to play loose. They're going to shoot tons of threes and play with tons of bravado.

That's just who they are. It's funny. So comparing anyone of the Warriors is insane. That's why I said we're going to crazy town. But in 2012, 13, when we're working together, we never could have predicted anything that happened with that Warriors team, right? We just knew they were super fun. And it was like, I'm glad Steph Curry's going to turn out to be a really good pro

because there was three years there where we didn't even know if he's going to be able to stay in the league with his ankles. And thank God he's really fun to watch. And I'm so glad we've gotten this point. Hey, Clay Thompson's really good too. And then over the next three years, it built into this way bigger thing. They have the foundation to do something pretty special with this team. So here's, so I was looking through the last 25 years of teams that's sort of like unexpectedly and organically snapped into something that was this your first chat gbt foray yeah i did a little chat i did

one chatby gbt and then i felt horrible about it and i stopped um why'd you feel bad i just you know yeah to try it i'm old school can we have just like writers and writers doing writing doing the writing just gone to the library and researchers and encyclopedias hey look we take i did the low family takes out books from the freaking public library okay you think i'm buying my daughter all the goddamn babysitter clubs, books, and all that stuff. No, you're taking some of those out of the library. The Greenwich Public Library is one of the great libraries. You don't have to blow up my spot like that.

Well, it's a great place. It's got its ups and downs. And it like, there really isn't a perfect. This is the most interesting. So a lot of them are, have one or two, one or both of these things. One, a consensus, even as this is happening and it's early, this guy is going to be one of the 15 to 20 best players in the league at worst. Like a true blue like Derek Rose or Damien Lillard or Steph Curry or on and on

for your sort of like organic builds. A couple of exceptions. Or two, there's a coaching change that dramatically changes how the team plays. So like the bucks with Budenhouser, the Hawks with Boodenholtz, that's a good comp, like a team that didn't maybe have a top 20 player. And there's a couple more like the Bulls with Tis. The Pacers, the Pacers are actually an interesting comparison. Like the Paul George, David West, George Hill, they have a coaching change.

But Paul George, I think, becomes it all, obviously became an all NBA player. And do you look at, are you, are we, like, I think probably they do, but they don't, do we have like an all-time superstar on this team? I think that's where this falls apart, because you would have to say the C Cinnipple Miller combo as how unusual it has to have. two wings that can both shoot and are almost interchangeable in some ways, almost as the superstar. Because it's a little like what the Celtics had with Jalen and Jason for a while there, where it's like these two forwards, like, what is this? Nobody has anything like this.

And maybe that's the superpower, just being able to have all these different lineups, but with those two guys as the centerpiece and you can go bigger or smaller with them. I think you got to, you've got to include lamello. It's the three of them to get. Because he's the best passer. He's also 6-7. The same height as Brandon Miller in one-inch listed taller. I just, I don't want to put this on the mellow because I'm just, I'm so nervous that it's going to fall apart for him at any time.

Well, the health stuff has been that the health stuff is now the thing that makes me the most nervous is just the ankle stuff that keeps popping up and making them this time. But the three of them being 666, 6, 6, 6, 7 and having the combined passing, shooting, ball handling skills that they have is really unusual. Well, how many teams in the league right now have five guys who, if the situation was right, could absolutely easily score 20 points a game? Think about that. Yeah.

It's not many. Because there's a scenario where it's like, hey, Miles Bridges, we needed to score 25 points a game for three weeks here. He could actually do it if they wanted them to. So for the people here listening who are like, this is the most fucking insane thing I've ever heard. I don't think anyone who's paying attention could think this is insane. well, advanced metrics are demanding that we had the conversation. When you're first in that rating for 32 games, you have to have the conversation. They play Dallas at home on Tuesday.

They're going to win that. Dallas has given up on the season. They're at Boston on Wednesday. Home Miami on Friday. That's a fun one. That's a must watch. Charlotte Miami Friday. That's going on my calendar.

At depleted Phoenix on Sunday at Portland, at Sacramento, and then at San Antonio on March 14th. and then they have a little Miami-Orlando home game combo after that. But these- They waxed the spurs, by the way. They didn't wax them, but they wire-to-wire beat the spurs at home in Charlotte. So at Boston Home, Miami, this is now, it's midterms for them.

It's the midterm exams in high school. It's like, okay, you have our attention. Now go to Boston. You're not going to have Jason Tatum yet. This is a team you should be able to play with. You're going to shoot a lot of threes and be super comfortable. and then Miami, that's the team you have to get through in your division. Can you split these? Can you win both?

If you lose both, then we were in Crazy Town and this was stupid. No, you can't. You live in, two games can't take you out of Crazy Town. At Boston's a tough game and Miami's Miami. I know, but I just brought the 2013 Warriors and the 2020-O-KC into this. That's where we got in the Crazy Town. I tried to temporary by bringing in some teams who became very good and did not perhaps accomplish the great history that the Warriors accomplished because they were all very good teams. But no, you stay in crazy town.

You can't be dissuaded by two games, especially one against Miami in which something as historically significant as the 26 Southeast Division title could be at stake. I mean, the pressure that all the players must feel knowing the division is in the air in that game is palpable. People less, better, stronger humans have quaked under that kind of pressure before. If we wanted to go to Crazy Town, we would go to the, to the 1978 Seattle Supersonics who started out 5 and 17 and ended up losing the finals in seven games to Washington and then winning a year later.

No one. But that is the craziest start to finish season. Five and 17 made the finals. I think you, I think there are like probably less than 50 people who are still alive who can have who can say one sentence about the 1977-78 NBA finals who can say one coherent sentence. I could probably name nine of the guys on the team. It's a great basketball card team.

I think you guys are going to be like D-Day soldiers who like every year there's like fewer and fewer of you left. Well that's like my dad with the season tickets for the Celtics. He's like fifth oldest now for having the tickets straight through. There's some I think there's some guy who's like 90, but my dad's like moved into the top Is he been honored? It's like, you know how they do the

season ticket holder of the game? They bring them out and they waves. I honestly can't believe he has been brought to midcourt and wave to the crowd. What's he got to do? Come back going since 1974. Wow, that's astonishing. I'm actually surprised. The 73, 774 season brought him a title.

So anyway, yeah, Charlotte, I think this is real. Okay, before we go. Okay. It's March. It's spring training. I have the Mets over under for the year for you. Over. I don't even know what it is. Well, you could go, oh, where is it?

Over is, I can't find it. Well, 90 plus wins is minus 134. You win in 90 games? Probably not. You don't think so? I think they, look, I'm following it from afar. It seems like a little bit of a problem that every day there are quotes, coming out of spring training that amount to like,

it turns out playing this new position is a little trickier than player X thought it would be. And that's like five players on the team. And like Brett Beatty now has gloves for seven different positions. It's never a good sign. I hope this is going to work. It seems I'm a little worried, frankly. But of course I'm taking the over on whatever the over under is.

Are you watching Survivor 50? No. I haven't watched any. I've never watched an episode of Survivor, not one. Do you ever think of going on? I would probably not subject myself to it. What would be your strategy if you went on? I don't even know how it works.

We do tasks and then someone gets voted off. And I know everyone forms alliances and their people alienate other people and their backroom deals. My strategy would just... It's like ESPN. Are there teams? I'm seriously, I'm sorry. I'm not bringing anything to the table. I can't go on because I wear contact lenses and I have allergies.

Otherwise, I would have gone on. Yeah, I would have loved it. There's no workaround for that? No, I feel like that's an excuse. Being in the outdoors, well, now I'm too old. My wife was my dream person to go on, though, because great at challenges, she would have owned the challenges, but gets crazy if she's not eating. And you have to like, you're really hungry on Survivor.

She's just a... There's not like a hotel nearby where they're getting catered meals, no? So she'd be just an absolute maniac, but then would win the challenges. They wouldn't be able to vote her off. And she would just be yelling at everybody about the rice. Just like who ate the rice. There was more rice here. I'm trying to think what reality show has ever tempted me.

Like that would be fun. That's the one. That's the one where like I travel around the world and solve problems and puzzles and like go on chases. is like, that seems fun. What's the craziest thing you've ever done? The craziest thing I've ever done? Well, like, joining a reality show would be the craziest thing.

If you told me, like, one time I applied to be on the real world, I'd be like, that's the craziest thing you could have told me. I don't think I have anything. Did you have anything like, you're like, I can't believe I did that?

I mean, I can't, I still can't believe I ever got on television to talk about anything. You were there with me the first time I went on TV and I almost had to take me to the emergency room. I couldn't even convince you to a podcast.

No, it took two months. Like it was, I think all of this is crazy. I'm trying to think if I did anything. I'm glad you mentioned that. I think about that sometimes. All of this is crazy. I don't think I have any, I mean, I did crazy stuff when I was a cops and crime reporter

at the Stanford Advocate at Stanford, Connecticut, like talking to murderers. What was the craziest trial you ever covered? A craziest trial ever covered. It's sad. It was a home invasion in which an elsewhere. olderly retired teacher was murdered in her own house by, I don't even remember who exactly did it. It was someone that they didn't know. It was like kind of a random thing, if I remember it correctly.

I covered all sorts of horrible stuff and talked to lots of scary people and lots of very interesting people in strange places. It was crazy. I was on a jury once in the late 1990s, maybe 2000 when I was living in Boston. Do you ever have on a jury? No, I've always gotten out of jury duty. I was on a jury and it was this case where these guys got in a fight in an elevator and somebody got stabbed and he said it was the guy who did the stabbing said he was defending himself and we had to do this three-day trial and decide on whether he did it or not.

It was pretty tense. Sounds tense. Yeah, I won't tell you what the verdict was, but it was. was, uh, I'm going to come back with the better answers. I'm sure I've done something crazy that's just, did you ever drive cross country with anybody? No. Trying to think, like, you're just a very practical guy. I once chaperoned a high school band trip to Florida from New Jersey. I was one of eight faculty members who did that. It wasn't crazy. It was just incredibly unpleasant from start to finish. It involved, that involves, that involved a group,

I mean, we're talking like 60 children. Yeah. High school children and eight teachers. And that involved one of the nights was a dinner at medieval times in Orlando. And what we had, it was just like night four of a five day trip. And we did have a serious conversation among the faculty members about whether we could sneak alcohol into medieval times. And no one would be able to tell because the cups were pewter. and whether the risk reward equation was worth it because

yeah what a way to get fired so sick of the whole the whole trip medieval times like in the cable guy so yeah it's still going we actually had to talk about this with some friends there's still there's like 10 medieval times around the country if you want to organize a work of like an outing did you follow this whole thing that people were worried

that Jim Carrey had been replaced I did see I saw photos that looked like you know different than I remember Jim Carrey but people age and then the Hollywood people have things happen to them and they don't look. I thought it looked like he had fillers in his cheeks. I didn't think he got replaced. There's been, there has a litany of people who I see them in movies and I'm like, that person looks like that now. That's like doesn't even, I wouldn't have guessed that in a million

years. I like the, in general, I wonder if anyone's ever been replaced in our lifetime. You're going down some dangerous roads that could get us into some political discourse. Well, it happened in Dave, but that was a movie. I was just, it did happen. It was just in a script. Kevin Klein came in. He looked just like Dave. Did it.

Have you seen Sicario? I have. You have. You like Sicario. Sicario is, I haven't seen it. I saw it in a hotel by myself in Los Angeles on some road trip because it's a, it's a classic. My wife will never watch a movie.

And I didn't quite know what I was getting into. I knew the gist of it. And I remember being like, this is so much better than I even thought it was going to be. and I would like to rewatch it. I have not seen any of the sequels. I think there are there multiple sequels? Multiple sequels. The original Sicari was on Netflix,

and we're doing a live rewatchable tomorrow. 6 p.m. E.T., me and fantasy and Chris, to kick off CR Month. We have two other movies knocked down. Fargo, his second movie is Chera month. And then today, just announced, to live and die in L.A. I don't know if you know that one.

I don't think I've ever seen that movie. Yeah, I don't think I know that movie. William Peterson. No. It's a classic. You can find it. it. I don't know if it's on Netflix, but yeah, those are the first three more spots. So five movie month for rewatchable. So there you go. Thanks to McLeo Bulture for for sponsoring

this live stream. Thanks to Hal and Eduardo and Jack and Kevin and Chris and everybody at the ringer as well. Zach Lowe, you have a podcast Tuesday morning. Tuesday morning. Thursday morning. Thursday morning will be the holy shit that Hornet Selt the game was the game of the year. And Jason Tatum's coming back on Friday podcast. So I'm looking forward to it. Good to see you, my friend. Thank you. Always fun. Thanks, everybody.

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