The Bill Simmons Podcast - Cade's Ceiling, LeBron Injury Ripples, Trade Talk, and Poku Corner With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss top NBA draft prospect Cade Cunningham after Oklahoma State's loss to Oregon State in the NCAA tournament (2:30), LeBron James's ankle sprain and his unprecedented durability over the years (26:00), updated NBA MVP odds (47:45), the upcoming NBA trade deadline (1:19:00), and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We are going to be going three times a week on that feed, reacting to nerd culture, superheroes, Marvel, all that stuff. Mally Rubin, Van Lathan, and a host of others are on that podcast. Coming up, Ryan Russel and I, I've been Van Lathan and a host of others are on that podcast coming up. Ryan, we're still in I taping past midnight ET.

Oh yeah. Yeah. We wanted to wait until every college basketball game was done. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Ryan Rossellos here taping this late. It is 9.22 p.m. Pacific time. We decided to wait until after the Oklahoma State game, which was the last March Madness game of this Friday, Saturday,

Sunday stretch. Wanted to see Kate Cunningham. Ended up losing to Oregon State, who I can't even say they played that well the second half. The funniest thing about this game, I think it started at 640. It was almost a three-hour game. We thought, oh, it'll be great.

We'll bang it out. And I forgot there's just 10 million timeouts. And now by the time we finish, it's going to be 11 o'clock. Give me your top three takeaways from March Madness this weekend. A lot of theories out there. A lot of the upsets weren't mistakes. Like Loyola beating Illinois. They just run great stuff.

And Illinois had a hard time staying with them. And they seemed to get clean looks all the time. And Illinois was one of my favorite teams. I love them. I thought they had size. And Io is this kind of do-everything guy that's going to be a first-round pick. But Loyola beat them. Oral Roberts beating Ohio State and then beating Florida again today.

That wasn't a mistake. There's a lot of these, every seed, one through 15 has won a game in the first weekend. The only seed that hasn't won a game is the 16 seed. So we can talk about the uniqueness of the season and Big Ten fans are like, hey, look, we were there a week ahead of time. But if the Big Ten had had a good opening weekend, they would have said, hey, they were acclimated. They were used to Indy. That was a huge advantage. So you could talk about also no home court with the potting system and fans and all that i don't know last year here's the theory i have i'm not even sure it's right bill last year we had unprecedented like turnover with ranked teams losing to unranked teams all

season and i don't know if it's a continuation of some of these teams where you know the top just isn't that good or they can get Zag and Baylor. And, you know, these other teams that aren't power fives are just ready to go. So a lot of these upsets didn't feel like weird mistakes. Do you think it's a little bit like the NBA bubble where it just almost didn't seem like home court advantage mattered for those two and a half months because the fans, the atmosphere is a little strange and it in a weird way, levels it out. Because I personally think a 15 seed beating a two and a seven in a span of 48 hours is pretty weird.

I'm not sure that happens in a normal tournament, but I think this has been a pretty abnormal season. A lot of people are predicting that. I mean, a ton of upsets. Hold on to your seats. God only knows what's going to happen. You look at where we are now and it was about as weird as it gets it might be you know i'm i'm willing to i'm open to anything on this one it's just whenever we were talking about the bubble you know on the east side it

was like hey look at miami you know is it that is that because of the bubble or is it because milwaukee's really easy to defend so if it's because of the bubble then people should get off bud's case which i don't think is going to happen, even though Milwaukee's figured it out. And I know we're going to get to all the NBA stuff here a little bit later. And then on the West side, you know, talking conferences here,

if it were just bubble related, then should have somebody beaten the Lakers, you know, so. Well, Debra beating the Clippers is pretty weird. Yeah, but they were still up 3-1, you know? So, again, I could be... I'm just saying I don't know. I'm saying basically for anybody that says definitively, okay, it is the bubble. It's because they're in Indy. It's because of all these different things. I just saw

some teams that looked better. I mean, the 9 seed for Loyola against Illinois, I guess Ken Palm's overall ranking had Loyola 9th ninth and they were in nine seats. So, and when you watch him play and again, you know, I'll, if you have the guy who does rankings perfectly, I'll be over here waiting in the corner, but that seems absurd. But then when you watch him play, you go, how the hell is that team a nine seat? I knew Illinois was done when Sal picked them to win the tournament. That was it. Kiss of death. Let's talk about Cade Cunningham.

Because you and I have been texting about him a lot. And I've now watched multiple games from him. Give me how many games. Is that two? Eh, like three and a half. Okay. But then pieces of other games. But really like sat down and watched.

And he reminds me a lot of Sean Livingston, which I'm not the first person to say that. Cause he's got same kind of six, eight lanky. He's a little thicker than Sean was, but same heads always up balls. Always moving. He's always pushing it.

I think Sean might've been a slightly better passer before he got hurt, but Kate's a way, way, way better shooter, but he's got that same little pull-up, 6'8", shoots over the smaller guy thing at the foul line that Livingston always had. He used to sidearm it.

But Cade's a fantastic shooter. I think when I see people talking about how he's a guaranteed franchise offensive player, my fear watching him is he's always in kind of third, somewhere between third and fourth gear, but doesn't have that one super explosive thing that I really feel like you need in the NBA. But now you would say, all right, Luka, Luka plays at his pace. We've talked about that a lot, right? Where Luka's doesn't, he's not, he doesn't want, need to blow by you. He's always going to get to where he wants to go.

And that would be the argument for Cade. Two, three years from now, he's going to be a guy who just gets to his spots. But the guy I'm watching in these games and the guy I watch tonight still can't totally get to wherever he wants to go. And I think if you're a slam dunk, you can't miss,

you are a franchise offensive player. To me, it's like, can i get to whatever spot i want i'm not sure i 100 see that with him what i do see is somebody who i think is going to be an unbelievable shooter and maybe that will be his calling card but what do you see we've never really talked about it on the pod no i still you know most of my draft stuff i do you know the two months leading up just because the way the schedule works so i i always feel a little limited talking about any of the guys um before works. I always feel a little limited talking about any of the guys before I've done all that work.

I've watched probably six games now. He's a better shooter than Sean. You're right. Sean was a better athlete. Athlete-wise, Cade is not the first thing you see with him. I'm not saying he's a bad athlete, but Sean was pretty special

for that kind of size. The biggest thing with him is just the moment. He seems to be completely in control for somebody this young. And if you watch him in the Baylor game in that second half, he just is kind of taken over. And you saw glimpses of him going,

all right, here we go. And you can see they came out. He hit some big shots, but they were playing zone in some of those possessions. And then if he had the ball on any screen action they kept two with him and he's actually not going to anthony edwards you he's just going to go okay this is how you're doing it i'm going to swing it over to you and then he had a couple guards miss every three there at the end of the game

anyway so he got frozen out by uh by that point guard the other guard on his team that guy was just like i got this i had a front office this week because I was doing something on my pod that I haven't done yet. I was like, just give me your top five in order to see how much variation there is. And so far, no team has had anybody ahead of Cade. There's only one team that was like, look, I kind of like Suggs a little bit more. But I had another team that was very specific about Cade that said, look, I think it's Cade in his own tier. And then it's the next guys. And then after five, it's all over the place.

And the guy said this week to me, it was a great line. He goes, you know, I don't even worry's Cade in his own tier and then it's the next guys. And then after five, it's all over the place. And the guy said this week to me, it was a great line. He goes, you know, I don't even worry about Cade in the first half. He goes, when we're talking about him in the room, it is always what this guy is doing in the second half. So if you're telling me, like, you feel like he's coasting a bit in the first half, I'd tell you an NBA team agrees with you that he's coasting a bit,

but he's still one player of the year. And what I saw from him with the way they were defending him, he's going to defer at times. And it's going to look like he's passive because he's like, look, I'm not just going to force it against these two guys because we're a good team this year and made it to the Big 12 final. And I'm going to trust some of you other guys. And it didn't quite happen for him.

But the shooting and his vision and his passing and his comfort and his poise and all those things, they're just so much more positive i even had a text from a coach in a tournament who saw my tweet about him saying he's the best player i've gone up against in five years wow yeah i the the thing i do like about him is he you know we're in this nba now in 2021 where every every team has at least one guy who's like, it's time for me to assert myself. It's about time.

Clear out. Here we go. He just seems like somebody who he, like he really didn't care when that other guy was freezing about as their whole season was on the line. He was just like, all right, there was, they, they cut to him in the huddle. He's pulling everyone together like to keep it going. He wasn't like making a stink eye on him doing the Brandon Ingram Zion, like, you know, clear out of the way. This is my team now. None of that stuff. Um, which I like there's an unselfishness to him. I guess my question is if I'm building an offense around his skills and I don't have a lot

of other good players in that team, which is always the case when you get, get drafted by these crappy teams, right? Is this a guy, when you think about these other offenses that we have, these top 10 offenses where they have these, you know, there's Dame and Luca and Yoke edge and people like that. Is that a guy who can get to that level?

Because the stuff I'm reading, it's like they're making it seem like he's going to get to that level. And I'm not saying he can't. I just don't 100% see it yet. I want to see him more. Yeah, but whenever we're talking about somebody at the top, other than last year, it's usually, you know, I always kind of look at it

like when a guy gets drafted, it'll go forth and be like, this guy can make multiple all-star teams. You're like, well, if he's going to make multiple, he probably should have gone one. We tend to overrate everybody in the draft in a way. So, you know, this guy, they were saying would have been number one last year and he had been coming out of high school. So, I mean, there, there's some real pedigree with him. And I, I guess that's my point. I'm, I, I see 85% of it. There we go with the percentages, but I'm, I'm 15% not totally there yet because I don't see

that, that kick-ass, you know, and John granted, John's been way up and down this year, but John and Dame and these people that can just blow by people and get to their spots. I, that's the one thing I don't totally see with him yet. In the NBA with his vision and his handle and being able to pass over the top guy. I mean, that was the positive with Melo going, you know, if he figures it out, it's 6'8". And the handle. And the thing that I underestimated with Melo, too, is that when he decides he's going, if you're not ready, it's over. It's over.

His just speed. I'm not saying, you know, he's the fastest guy in the league, but his zero to whatever, his acceleration is ridiculous. And that size and like he's just a special kind of generational passer that we're seeing um so i'm not saying kade necessarily has those passing chops but with the spacing and the shooting he's going to be surrounded and considering basically every team runs like i don't know if it's 75 that's low for some teams high pick and roll just high pick and roll bring it out he's gonna beat you if you switch it and then he's gonna be kicking it out to guys all the time so i mean look luca is so special because his

hips and his shoulders and he's still somehow compact with his dribble you know like big guys that can dribble through traffic like that are pretty rare and you know even how strong he is yeah right and even some of the knocks on harden out out of Arizona State, you're like, okay, I kind of see it, but man, he's a little slow. And then you realize like, wait, he's a 6'11 wingspan and he's just way smarter and he sees the game better than everybody else. So I can understand some reservations when it looks up he saw the double was coming he's getting doubled like crazy off the off the screen and they'd stay with him and he was like all right enough of this and then he turned down the screen before it even really been set up and then cut and got to the elbow and missed the jumper and then he had another play where he got double the left side in the second half and he had a player that was too close to the screeners as he saw what was about to happen and he just waved him not off where he wanted ISO. He wanted him to get further away from him so that when he passed it to him, he'd have a

better angle set up further from the help. And I was like, oh my God, like he saw that as a freshman going, no, no, no, catch this further from me and you're going to have a better angle. And I think that's just really special stuff you don't see in college. Yeah. You know, you mentioned Lamello, the thing that's been shocking to me and that he got hurt and we're going to talk about that later. It looks like he might be out for the year was how easily he was getting by people and getting to the rim. That was the thing. I don't know. It was just hard to tell from a year of New Zealand YouTube clips that he would have this ability to beat people off the dribble and, you know, take Miles Turner and do some sort of one-handed twisting layup and just get whatever shot he wants. The thing with Cade, you know, I was trying to think like, all right, what's the

best case scenario here? And the vision stuff and how funny it is to play with, that was one piece. But it was the shooting that I kept coming back to where it's like, this guy's six, eight. Most of the time he's going to be guarded by somebody smaller than him. And it looks like he has a chance to be like a 45% three point shooter in the pros. He's 40 now. Yeah. With his stroke and just how easy it is. And it's like, if he's open, you feel like it's going in.

And I think that maybe that's, maybe that's the thing that I need to wrap my head around. Could this guy be like a Dame type of three-point shooter? But 6'8". Yeah, I would watch the second half of the Baylor game. I'd watch the Oklahoma game. I watched it. You told me to watch that one. I watched it. Okay, but are you

noticing the moment for this guy? There's something there. There is an it factor with him where, you know, except for today. Yeah. Yeah. Or the Liberty game.

I mean, look, if, if you've only watched Cade in the tournament, you're going, Hmm, you're like, wait a minute.

What? And you know, give me Suggs from Gonzaga, who I think when he's great, it seems more aggressive. And we like guys that are aggressive. Like that Mitchell kid with Baylor, you know, I've been watching him going, man, yeah he he's got some shit to his game you know

when i watch mobley at usc the seven footer who could go two in this draft and you realize why he would go two but there's some passiveness there you know so i wouldn't ever want to be in a habit of but you just can't help but notice like who's who's fucking pissed off out there and you're not seeing that from kate and i understand i just think the rest of the stuff is i don't need you to be mad i think there's also you have a little sham at face theory with him too is that fair or is that done now it's like 20 percent sham face i think what you have is more aware michael beasley face no you know what i like you know what I like about Cade? He's one of those guys when they tell the anecdotes, the announcers or the magazine feature, everyone talks about like his presence

and what it's like. And just there's something, how locked in he is and how competitive he is. And you read enough of those little tidbits and usually those are accurate and they don't happen often. People don't go out of their way to be like, Hey, this guy's different. Here's the story. And it does seem like he has that. Can we play a little game called what team would be the most team, most fun team for Kate Cunningham to go to with his specific skillset? Yeah. Okay. Not Dallas candidates.'re the candidates. Not Dallas. No, no. These are the realistic teams. I know.

So I'll give you the bottom four in each conference. Cavs. That wouldn't be that fun. Wizards. I'd feel bad for him. Yeah, I'd feel bad for him in that one. Orlando. That could be

good. Imagine Orlando staff. They'd be like, wait, we got a tall guy that can shoot? Wait, we've done this three times. This guy could actually make these? And look, I'm not... Vooch can shoot, but Vooch is the center. I meant these perimeter guys. Yeah, these perimeter

guys that are tall as hell. Well, then the other one's Detroit, who has nobody. So Orlando would be the most fun out of the... And the Bulls as a wild card would be probably the highest upside fun, but they would have to get really lucky. Other side, Oklahoma City, Sacramento. Sacramento.

I mean, I don't know what they would do. They'd obviously have to take him. Maybe start shopping somebody. Houston, I think, would be the worst case scenario because they don't know what they would do. They'd obviously have to take him. Maybe start shopping somebody. Houston, I think, would be the worst-case scenario because they don't really have anybody. And then I was thinking Minnesota with how Edwards has looked the last couple weeks in towns. And it's like they'd have to basically figure out

what the hell to do with Russell. But Minnesota, I think, would be the most fun West team. It would. And I feel great for Minnesota fans that Edwards, at least through this stretch, you go, okay, we have something here. He can't shoot it. They go in sometimes.

And we knew out of Georgia, his shot selection, you're like, whoa, okay. You're pulling it from there. And I think he's dipped back down to like 30, which is crazy because he was actually below 30% of Georgia on like eight or nine attempts a game I mean he didn't care but once he gets to the hoop like he's big and quick enough so there's something there but he he's going for it you know he had 40 the other night against Phoenix but I think he took

30 shots like he he is lighting it up which I kind of can't wait to see what happens to Russell comes back. Yeah. Because then Russell's going to be – so then when you throw Cade into that, I don't know, man. I don't – because I just – like, Edwards is a ball-initiating player. Russell is that in the worst version of it. You know, D'Angelo stuff is pretty telling.

I would almost – like, what would you do? Tell those guys, hey, you're playing off of him? You'd have to, but then I don't know. Like, Edwards maybe is a cutter. It would be sick, but I don't think Edwards is in a hurry to start going to like 14, 15 shots a game, even though, again, this month is a positive because at least you know there's some stuff there

that's really special with him. I guess the dream scenario would be New Orleans. Yeah, but then we wouldn't get to see point Zion anymore. Yeah, but I think he's a little Halliburton-y where he doesn't necessarily need to have the ball all the time. He's not one of those, I have to dribble the ball 16 seconds per possession guys. Yeah, yeah.

No, that's fair. You know, the Edwards thing. You're right. He, that's fair. You know, the Edwards thing. You're right. He's going for it. And now that LaMelo's out, he's going to be really going for it. Because the rookie of the year is not inconceivable that he can't steal this now.

It would be really hard for LaMelo to win playing only 40 games. The thing with Edwards, athletically, he does some stuff where it's like, if you're just rating guys 1 to 10, just like pure athleticism, he's got to be at least like a 9.2, 9.3, right? There's just some stuff he can do physically that is elite, elite elite,

like super elite, ridiculous elite. And that's why even when he was terrible in the beginning of the year there would be these plays and you would get forward in this clip of like watch him just go flying by this guy and dunking over two guys in the baseline you'd be like all right there's this guy's not a bust this is not anthony bennett there's something here and now it seems like he's finally putting it together which is nice i'll tell you too i don't know if you've noticed this when they beat like i figured they'd lose to Phoenix in the rematch I have this theory about

the team that loses in the first game the split coming back although the Pacers got both against Miami so watching that one today but they beat Phoenix

they straight up beat them earlier this week and that's when when Edwards went nuts and we used to talk about Towns as like easily all first teamteam miserable.

And he doesn't look... He looks like he's the least enjoyed. I'm not telling you Minnesota's figured it all out and they're awesome because they're still pretty bad defensively and they've been bad again this month.

But just seeing Towns not miserable the whole game is great. Because, you know, look, Towns has his limitations too, but he's still a terrific player and he's still really young. And I think you'd always worry about that if you're a Timberwolves fan with it.

But he just looks a little bit happier. But I'm really worried about what the D'Angelo Russell return will look like for Edwards and all those guys. Because if Russell just thinks he's going to go ISO the whole time, which is basically what he's been, then it just sucks to play with. Remember when we liked that Russell trade for the Warriors and people gave us shit?

We liked it because they salvaged the asset. That was it. I just like the pick. And if Wiggins could end up being close to a wash with Russell, that was the bonus. And now a year later, especially if they got the Cade Cunningham pick and Russell would have to be somebody they'd now have to shop or turn into a six man. That would be unbelievable.

You're losing a pick and you have a guy who you kind of don't even know if he fits your future and all that stuff would be ridiculous. Do you have a- Go real quick though. Think how quick that, that's a great example of also

the Chris Paul Westbrook trade where the market said you had to include a pick that's that's only top three protected this year to move wiggins to get russell and now if you just went around and said who would you rather have wiggins or russell i think you'd rather have wiggins. He's revived himself here in Golden State. He's not going to be super. He's not going to be what you'd hope early on, but he's definitely better. I think he's played better basketball and more engaged basketball during this stretch. So that's an example of not even, I don't know, a year later, you're going, look at how much the market has changed. And Chris Paul Westbrook was perfect. You've got to throw in all this stuff to take on Chris Paul and then a year later

the only guy you could trade Westbrook for was John Wall. Yeah, but look at both of those trades. You have terrible front office slash owners making trades for wrong reasons, right? Houston's making that Westbrook trade

because for whatever reason the owners have decided we need to listen to Harden and this is what Harden wants. That's not a good reason for a trade. You should never listen to a player on a major move where you're giving him picks.

Minnesota, it was, hey, Towns and Russell are buddies. We got to keep Towns happy. So you just sign Towns. You have Towns for four more years. You have to sacrifice picks now? You don't make him happy winning.

But we were wondering if Towns would set the record for longest time left on his contract to ask for a trade. To edge out. Because I can't wait for somebody to have three plus. It could be him. Steven Jackson kind of already has that award. Yeah. Could be him.

We're going to take a break. Come right back. So I was in Vegas for 24 hours this weekend. Party Bill. Oh, no. It was the complete opposite. I was with my daughter. She had a soccer game.

Oh. And we went to the Strip because we were there and we were in Henderson. And I was like, we got to go to the Strip. Let's just go. We'll go get dinner. She'd never been. Go down there. Oh We'll go get dinner. She'd never been. Oh, she's never been? She's never been in the strip.

What was her reaction driving down the street and seeing it? It's so funny explaining the casinos where you don't realize. You're like, so that casino, they're trying to pretend they're Paris. So if you go in, it's like being in Paris. And that casino, the Venetian, it's like being in Italy. And then this one over there, the, the, uh, the Luxor, they think they're an Egyptian pyramid. And you realize like just kind of how dopey the whole concept of the strip is where each casino has to have their theme. But what was really crazy was it was like seven o'clock on a Saturday and the strip there's like,

you know, barely any cars on it. And there are people. You could see people. There were more people than I thought. Most of them had masks on. But you think March Madness weekend, the all-time craziest weekend to go to Vegas, other than maybe the Super Bowl. I still think March Madness is crazier. And you could drive up and down the strip if you wanted.

So it wasn't exactly the first impression of Vegas I would have wanted for my daughter, but she could still see how crazy. We walked the Strip. We actually walked to Paris. You'll be happy to know people are still smoking cigs in the casino. That's good. Playing slot machines. So the same degenerate factor is still there. But yeah, it was a little bittersweet.

Vegas March Madness, but not really. This might not be popular, but sometimes I have this odd respect for people still smoking publicly. Where at ESPN, the guys that would be just outside huddled in the winter. Under the lobby? No, there'd be like a little smoking section between one building and then the entrance to radio. And there'd just be a guy out there just shivering, firing one away. And I would just kind of nod my head being like, you know, dying breed. And then the deportes guys.

Yeah, the deportes guys. Because we all realize if you're international, smoking's not bad for you. Yeah. And those guys would just be out there firing away, talking about stuff. And I was always like, this is amazing. The greatest was when it would be on the East Coast when it's like nine degrees outside and the person's taking the three minutes

to put their jacket on so they can take the elevator downstairs. That's another two minutes to get outside to fire up a stick. And then- Girls in dresses and they're not dressed properly anyway. You're out in Beacon Hill. And then they're like, dude, you should be like, all right, let's get a couple of parliaments and go to the amendment.

Unbelievable. Yeah. Anyway, the smoking is back in Vegas, but it was weird to be there. Let's talk about, we're done with March Madness, right? I mean, they're playing more games tomorrow. It's going to be. Yeah. I'm good.

Just a crap shoot. I didn't even enter a pool this year. It's like, what's the point it's I'm good. Just a crap shoot. I didn't even enter a pool this year. It's like, what's the point? Zero. You didn't do one bracket. Yeah. I was like, I'm not going to win anything. I'm just done. I was like, I'm not even going to spend the time filling it out. Let's uh, let's talk about LeBron. LeBron had a really bad sprained ankle. And even though he's a superhuman maniac, even he, I don't think is immune to a high sprained ankle. We have not seen people come back from this injury in what? Two and a half weeks,

three weeks. It's pretty hard. It's bad too. It looked bad. Like you can see where it turns high and, um, he's always one when he's hurt, like he's going to let you know he's dinged up,

but this was excessive. And then he hit a three or something afterwards too, and then it was like, all right, I'm out of here. They're not playing for seeding. The Davis thing is still, the timeline in that felt like it was just going on forever. And the crazy thing, I found a number, I don't know what it was this week,

but it was most shots attempted, four seconds or less of the shot clock, and LeBron had the most, and he actually still had a really good shooting percentage from both distances. Where did you find that? Was that on a website? Yeah, I've got a program to sort through this stuff. Oh, man,

because I always felt like... I don't think it's that hard. That one might be on NBA and on the advanced stuff. That one I might be able to just send you a link to. I don't think it's that hard. That one might be on NBA and on the advanced stuff. That one I might be able to just send you a link to. I don't think that's a subscription one. I always felt like that should be factored into people's percentages and stuff.

So you figure if you take 100 shots and you're somebody like LeBron, at least nine of the 100 are terrible shots with two seconds left in the shot clock because you're the only guy on your team who can have the ball, right? There was a stretch for the Lakers. I think he was

taking nine of those a game. And I mean, it was just unbelievable. They were handing it off to him and he still was hitting them. So go ahead, back to your original point. Well, you know, because we're and look, we're guilty of this too on this podcast. We love talking about the MVP. It's always fun. LeBron gets hurt and

almost the narrative immediately switches to, is Jokic the MVP. It's always fun. LeBron gets hurt and almost the narrative immediately switches to, is Jokic the MVP? And everybody has MVP conversation, which by the way, we're going to have in about five minutes. But I defaulted in my head to like, could they fall to a six seed? And if they fell to a six seed, what could that mean? So right now Utah's 30 and 11 Phoenix, 28 and 13 Lakers, 28 and 15 clips, 27 and 16, and then Portland, Denver, both 25 and 17. So it really like if it's a three week tailspin and they don't do well, they could fall to a succeed. And you know, I, I think the deck was stacked against them anyway, with the, with this season being so close to the bubble playoffs last year and how hard that was and everything.

But if they don't have home court in any of these rounds during a playoffs when I think we're going to have fans, and LeBron, you know, pretty famously said how he won the two toughest titles ever. I would argue if you're going to not have home court in any round when we actually have fans, that would be just as tough, if not tougher than the two that he said were the toughest ever. Yeah.

And it also feels like with Phoenix being better and Utah, despite their, you know, odd stretch here again, and you can't tell, like you don't know every really good team other than those Warriors teams, them losing three in a row was unheard of. But Utah having a bad 10-game stretch is not that weird. The Lakers, almost none of it matters

when I watched because I was just like, all right, fine, they can't shoot now. They don't have Anthony Davis. These guys are coasting. It's still a better team on paper. The roles are more defined.

Kuzma's clearly more comfortable. The craziest thing about Rondo and watching him not be that great with Atlanta is I can't believe this guy was arguably the third best offensive player for this Lakers team last year. He's hitting spot up, swing the ball weak side, open threes. Rondo was

unbelievable in that play. Unbelievable. I'm with you. I guess there's some level that I have to find concern for, but I'm just, I'm just not going to, I mean, even if they're the sixth seed, I don't know if I'll be picking against them because they look terrible. But if Davis isn't a hundred percent. Sure. Fine. Okay. But I'm just, I'm going by, if those guys are ready and it looks pretty good the

last couple of weeks and they roll in, they can be a six seed and I'm probably still going to pick them unless Utah gets back to what I, what I thought to what I thought they were, but I'm not going to get down on them because of some of the stuff that's been a little loose for them lately. At some point, we're going to have to have a Phoenix conversation because I think tonight's a good example. They're playing the Lakers tonight. It's a game a good team should win. It's a game the Celtics absolutely would have lost. Be like, oh, easy one. No LeBron, no Davis. We got this. Wait, why are we down 12 in the second quarter? And you just, you turn on the game and Phoenix is up 15.

And it's like, yeah, this is a team that knows what it's doing. It feels like they're getting better. I really wonder if they're, if they even need to make a trade deadline move. My guess is they'll probably roll with what they have. But when you look at the six, I think Dallas is coming finally. You could see it tonight. They demolished Portland tonight, but they've had their best five now for a couple of weeks. I don't know what they'll do. They have

the James Johnson contract. They'll definitely do something. But they have their five and Luka looks like he's the Luka from six you know, six, eight months ago. He's in shape, I guess would be the best way to say it. But so I think you have seven good teams in the West. And I think everybody's probably relieved if you're in the playoffs that New Orleans just cannot get their shit together. Because Zion's incredible. Nobody wants to see that dude in a playoff series, but they're probably not going to have to worry about it. Yeah. Zion's incredible. Nobody wants to see that dude in a playoff series, but they're probably not going to have to worry about it. Yeah, the other thing too, Luca goes from 33, 32 to now 36% from three,

which you can clearly tell with him. He just is more comfortable. It's more of a weapon for him. And, you know, it's just the great ones find ways to adjust the way they're being defended. And you knew he was always, like there's some guys who say, oh, you know, he'll figure it out. I think we say that about way too many players who can't shoot.

Like, yeah, there's just sometimes just never quite figure it out. But the special ones seem to find a way. And you're right. Dallas being outside and getting up. Six and a half. Yeah. We have six and a half contenders in the West. They're the half, but they'll be there.

So you were strong enough on Dallas that you would see them coming out of the West? No, I'm saying we have six and a half contenders i think we have six and then i think they're the half because i think in any series i could see them just getting hot and winning four games somehow i don't think they they makes me hesitate for but they're just so bad on defense when they need to be better yeah that you know they just are never healthy either, you know? So I did some LeBron research this morning as I sat in a hotel room with my son and daughter. LeBron had the groin injury in 2019. He had the ankle sprain in, in, uh, in this weekend. And then he had that weird thing,

his first Cleveland season when he came back in 14, 15, when he took the two weeks off, but he wasn't really injured. It was like a fatigue injury, whatever was going on there. But was that supposedly his back though? It wasn't his back, but it was almost like he needed a vacation. Um, the numbers. So I didn't realize this. He was 61 minutes away from 50,000 regular season minutes. He's at 49,939. And he played 10,811 playoff minutes, which puts him in the 60K minute club, which is him and Kareem and Karl Malone, and that's it. He's played 17 years. He's only missed 10% of a season twice, in 2015 and 2019. Every other season,

he played 90% of the games, uh, 1306 regular season games. 21st, 260 playoff games. First, there's only six 50 K regular season minute guys ever. He's one of the,

he's going to be one of the seventh when it happens, when he gets the extra 61 minutes, there's only been eight 7,500 playoff minutes, guys. He's the only one who's gotten to 10,000. Where it really gets crazy if you start comparing him to his peers. So he's at just about 50. Carmelo's played 41,000 minutes regular season. Iguodala's played 38. Dwight Howard's played 41,000 minutes regular season. Iguodala's played 38.

Dwight Howard's played 38. CP3's played 37. And LaMarcus Aldridge has played 35. So he's played basically 20% more regular season minutes than anyone who's currently in the league. And then if you compare him to the playoff minutes, KD played 55, 98 playoff minutes. So he's played almost 5,000 more than that. Iguodala's played 5,134 playoff minutes. He's played double that basically. Those are the only people in his class there. The durability, I think is the thing a

hundred years from now that people are going to be drawn to when they look at his basketball reference page over everything else, over the titles, over the MVPs, stuff like that. And it's gotten to the point that when he gets hurt, it's legitimately shocking. Like in that play yesterday, we, how many times do we see that play in basketball where the guy's jumping for the loose ball and as he's doing, you're going, Oh God, no, don't blow out his ACL. Like it feels like it could happen a hundred times. And with LeBron, he has just always been able to dodge plays like this. This was the one time he did it, but it got me thinking like,

God damn, it shouldn't be like shocking when somebody sprains their ankle. He's, he's like the most shocking injury guy I've ever followed in sports where he just seems indestructible. Anyway, we've made these points before, but I just wonder if this is some sort of moment we'll look back at where he's 17 years in. Now he's logged a shitload of minutes. Now he's got a bad wheel.

And is this something where the building starts to tilt a little bit, you know, where it's like the infrastructure gets finally a little bit shaken. It's going to be really hard for him the next couple of years is my point. He's got, he's already has an insane amount of miles on it. Yeah. But wouldn't you have,

and look all of this, this isn't a counterpoint to any of it, but don't you feel like with him, you just give up? Like you give up trying to predict when this... Give up making sense? Yeah, because it doesn't make any sense that from that draft class, this guy... Like, has anyone ever been drafted where... What are we talking?

18 years since he was drafted? 21, 03? Yeah. It'd be 18 years this June. Right. And he's... Like, who's ever arguing anybody's better than him right now? Has any player

ever... We'd have to go back and look it up, but I can't fathom there's any player that's ever been drafted and then 18 years later, if you were to say somebody else is better than him, you'd be wrong. And we've done it. Curry's had better seasons. I think even the strongest Curry fan has to realize there's stuff LeBron can do that Curry just can't do in a playoff game.

All right. Kawhi, I know I flirted with, like, look at Pete Kawhi here, man. It's unbelievable. And then you're like, all right. Durant, unfortunately, gets overlooked a little too quickly because it was like a short peak where he thought maybe he was going to get the throne, and then he didn't. I think Giannis has had moments where we're like, hey, it's just Shaq, but he's more mobile.

But with the playoff exits, nobody's going to do that anymore. So here we are in 21, where I don't think there's a great argument for anyone being better than he is. And the fact when he's had subpar regular seasons and behind other individual players, and then it comes playoff time, you're like, yep, he's still the best. I don't know that we're ever going to see anyone. I don't know that we've seen anyone or we'll ever see anyone 18 years later

be the undisputed king of his league. Imagine if I came on, did you have a show in 2003 where we were on the zone at that point? Yeah, you came on the zone. No, but if I came on the zone after that draft and I was like, here's a prediction. 18 years from now,

LeBron will have played 50,000 minutes and 11,000 playoff minutes and he'll still be in the MVP conversation. Mark my words. You've been like, what? What would be more unbelievable than that? Of somebody being drafted

number one. I mean, if you had said, hey, Tiger's gonna challenge Jack Majors, that's more believable as he became a professional golfer. No, no one would have believed you. And it's absurd to even think of it now. And that's why there are just moments where I try to remind myself that, you know how weird it's going to be when he actually looks like he sucks? Right. Do you know how weird that's going to be when you're like, oh man, he's not moving. It was supposed to already happen. It was supposed to already happen. And at the times where there were little warnings

where it felt like his game was morphing in ways, you're like, oh, there's a decline there. Oh, look, free throw attempts. Some of this stuff, oh, he's outside. No, he was just dictating the terms of the way he wanted to win games. That was it. And even this sprain was just an accident.

It wasn't anything. I don't think it was related to any minutes or anything like that. When you see physically how his leg turns, you're like, oh, that's that high one. That's going to hurt for a while. But out of those 60,000 minutes, you think you should have like seven, eight of those complete scare, fluky scare things,

right? Just dumb plays where you're landing on a dunk and somebody's foot's underneath. Do you think the fact that he's been able to avoid those, the other guy who was always able to avoid those was Carl Malone, who didn't really get hurt until that final Lakers season. And then the third one was Kareem, who's in that minutes club. But Kareem never had that one year where it's like he broke his hand punching Kent Benson. That's the only time he missed a significant amount of time. And you think like, all right, what are those three guys have in common other than their physical freaks?

They, you know, spend an insane amount of time taking care of their bodies. Kareem was doing all that yoga shit. And he was, people thought he was like a crazy person. You know, he was doing stuff in the early 80s. People are like, what is this guy doing? Well, martial arts in the 70s. Yeah. Martial arts and yoga. Is he nuts? early eighties, people were like, what is this guy doing? Well, martial arts in the seventies. Yeah. You know, he hooked up with Bruce Lee.

Martial arts and yoga? Is he nuts? And then Karl Malone was like really the first weight training guy who kind of resembles with the modern guys are like, so my guess is like, you must, when you turn your body into a machine like that, you can almost absorb injuries. Like you're like a Marvel superhero. So I'll be right. I can't wait to see how long it takes them to come back from this.

Because this is a four or five week injury, right? How long was John Moran out? John Moran had the same injuries out like five weeks. Yeah, he was out for a while. And he really hasn't been the same since he came back. Even though even those back to back warrior games, like he's five to 20 on Saturday night. I'm not going to make a prediction. I'm never going to doubt the guy.

And you know, there might be a matchup come playoff time where I go, all right, maybe I like somebody a little bit better, but you know, after what that guy did last year and how good he's looked and the fact that he's played this many minutes again, you know, remember when we were doing the over-unders, I was like, ah, they'll coast. They want it. They'll coast. And this guy's not coasting. He's just not, he's not.

I think he wants the MVP. I think he wants one more. I think he's pissed because in the past it was like, oh, I don't play 82 games. That's why I can't win the MVP. When we've gone over the individual seasons, and I don't think he has the argument. Maybe he thinks he does, or at least Kuzma thinks he does.

But I felt like that's kind of what this year was gearing up for. And it also gets back to your MVP thing, because now with this injury and the Embiid injury, Joker's in it, but Harden's going to be back in it, which seemed impossible when you start thinking about voter storyline stuff. You're like, alright, after these playoff games, nobody's going to want to vote for this guy again even if he's the leading scorer in the league. But then it's a new scene and Brooklyn's rolling and Harden's crushing it, which is still weird without Durant. It feels like they're just doing a Houston thing for the most part.

They're just running, but everybody seems to like it more now in Brooklyn. If I'm a Rockets fan, I'm like, wait, you guys shit on us for years and now you like it. Like, what are you talking about? Uh, but it's true. Yeah. But I mean, it's, it's actually, you know, shout out to the Rockets fans that love me so much, but I'd, I'd be kind of annoyed that you're like, wait, you guys are embracing this now. Like what, what are you guys talking about? But Lillard has to be brought up. Lillard has to be brought up, especially where the odds were, I saw recently. Because he's, that team doesn't play defense,

and his jab step back three, Bill, I think it's the most lethal individual, like, shot move in the league. It's quick, it's compact, the ball is out. It's not some massive jumping backwards travel like some other guy. It's just a quick jab at you, and then he just gets just enough space, and it's up the ball is out it's not some massive jumping backwards travel like some other guy it's just a quick jab at you and then he just gets just enough space and it's up and over in you and he's pissed off at everybody and i think you know whatever this conversation means hey how come

we're not talking about this guy which can be annoying because you're like all right fine i talked about your guy who was going to lose the mvp i think there's a real chance for somebody to steal this now and i'm going to tell you who that person is right after this break. All right. We're calling this MVP watch. I think part of the problem with this season is we've already anointed four MVPs and there's like 40% of the season left. You know who the MVP is right now?

Nobody. It's okay. We don't have to, we don't have to do the thing. Like, you know, if it ended right now, gun to your head, you'd say LeBron, but now he's going to miss three weeks and then you'd say, all right, maybe Jokic is going to bid. But it's okay that we don't have a favor yet. But I was thinking there have been a couple of years in history where kind of, we just didn't have an MVP and then they had to vote for somebody right that's how Bill Walton won that year when he broke his foot where I think he played 58 games something like that and the other two I'm doing this off the top of my head the other two guys I think were Gervin and David Thompson and it just Walton that was the most important team they were like 50 and 10 when when he played and everybody's like fuck it even though he missed uh a third of the season or fourth of the season we're still voting for him they voted for him iverson was the only other one since then who has missed at least 10 of the season and won the mvp

so and he missed 11 games so lebron now he's missed today was the second game he missed so he's basically missed two and a half um shortened schedule I think you probably have to play at least I don't know 50 59 60 games to be considered and that's when when you made that Dame point before Dame's just been steady right that's had been decimated by injuries. The McCollum thing, if anyone, like if the Celtics lost Jalen Brown for

a month and a half, they'd be done. I can't imagine how bad it would be. Oh my God, they'd be horrible. It doesn't look good now with him. Yeah. And Dame's just been steady. So you're right.

He should be in there. I have the odds. Jokic moved to plus 110. They're 25 and 16. He hasn't missed a game this year. He's averaging 27-11-9. I mean, he's having an awesome season. Embiid and LeBron are plus 550. Giannis, this is on FanDuel. Giannis is plus

750. Damon Harden are 11-1. And Luka's lurking at 18-1. So, the funny thing is, if this season was just happening in a vacuum, we would say Giannis is the MVP right now with, if LeBron's going to be out for a couple of weeks. But if,

if you didn't know he won the last two and nobody wanted to vote for him again, he's, he's having the same year he had the other two years and he's playing on one of the six best teams and he hasn't missed a game. And he's a better defensive player than right. Yeah. And he's better on one of the six best teams, and he hasn't missed a game. Milwaukee's good, by the way. And he's a better defensive player than everyone else. They're third or fourth in defense this month.

I know Giannis was saying everybody's overlooking us. It's like, yeah, man, that's what happens. It's like it was new, it was exciting, and you guys didn't deliver, and now people are already sick of you. Really, they've only been around a couple years as far far as like a legitimate playoff threat and people have already turned the page on him so you know that's that's what happened you're right this year if this were yannis's first year like this and they were a 500 team before this and he you know he's around 21

points a game and was having this kind of year and this was his breakout year, he'd win it. He's not gonna. He's not gonna. And Jokic, who I would have thought, all right, Jokic, the door has been opened. Destroy New Orleans today. Do your thing. He had a good game. He was like 29-10-10, but they lost to New Orleans. He was awesome, though. It's like nobody can grab

this MVP that LeBron has now dangled. So meanwhile, LeBron, he's going to be sleeping in his hyper bear chamber. He's going to be doing cryotherapy. He'll be, he'll be doing everything he can. He'll probably be back in like four days. And we'll be like, wow, that was dumb. And LeBron, you know, I felt like he was going to win before this happened, but it's been that kind of year. Sometimes it happens. I remember in 2011 when Rose won, we kind of didn't have an MVP that year. It was like, neither of the Miami guys were going to win. Nobody was voting for LeBron and Wade and the OKC guys weren't ready

and Dirk. And he just, he went in and was like, all right, we got to vote for somebody. And then everybody talked themselves into Derek Rose, including myself. That's how it works. Yeah. And it was going to happen last year with Lebron and then the season got shut down i really think that um even though you know there was a couple metrics where yannis was was far ahead of lebron how about the zag though how about some of the super supportive lebron voters going this lakers team look how bad their record is without him i'm voting for him I do not diminish do not diminish the reach. All this has done is proven that this Lakers

team wasn't as good as we thought. You know who's keeping them together? LeBron. Yeah, you know, in a year where there's not a real true number one, I'm going to give it to LeBron. It's a career achievement award. By the way, this isn't I bet he gets a couple of number one votes

hey if he comes back in 10 days he's i still think he's probably the favorite i actually think the odds drop too low because high ankle sprain people just assume that's five weeks but they they forget who we're dealing with here he will whatever if there's some sort of scientific thing for him to do that involves freezing the ankle and, you know, pouring oranges and the hemoglobin of young children or whatever he needs to do, he's going to fix that ankle and he will be back in the court. I'll tell you right now, if Mario Chalmers ends up dead, missing ligaments in his leg. I'm not, I'm just going to say like, I hope he has cells.

Yeah. I'm not, I'm just going to say, like, I hope he has, yeah, I hope he has. I've woken up in a hotel room and my stem cells are gone. Yeah, that's, that's a nicer way to say it. Just,

just that way. Go ahead. How many people over the past five days have said to you, hey, Rosilla, why haven't you talked about

LeBron owning the Red Sox? Anybody? Anybody? A lot. A lot. I mean, the guys in Boston don't know what it means. They're like, what does this mean now? And I was like, probably nothing. It's like, hey, do you know who the

18th highest staked owner on the Celtics is? Because that's what we're talking about here. We're talking about like, I don't know, is it 0.5% of the Red Sox or something? He doesn't own the Red Sox. Settle down. Yeah, that was definitely, people were in a hurry to be like, okay, this is, he owns a major league baseball franchise. And you're like, well, he's part of

an investment group that owns a small stake that doesn't actually decide what happens with the team. Now, I don't know what the final numbers were, though, because it's the Fenway Sports Group, where it's multiple things. So, you know, I don't know what it means. It's great. It's great that, you know, we can have a younger generation and more diversity and ownership.

You know, I think that is really, really important. 100%. But I think people, it was like the Jay-Z thing, when people were like, Jay-Z has the debts. Yeah. It was too good of a headline,

and people were like, he just bought the Red Sox. And you're like, okay, well, did he? Like, can we get Mookie back then? Listen, I was completely jealous. It sounds great. It sounds like a great thing

to be like, yeah, I own a stake in the Red Sox. What a cool thing to tell people. But, you know, he's, I never knew what his... But it's more than that.

It's soccer. It's the racing. It's all of that stuff. You know, so. I mean, I know you already know that. Yeah, just think. Do you think you'll ever. I mean, I imagine at this point,

you probably get approached by, you know, hey, minority stake. You'd be an awful minority owner. I'd be terrible. You'd be the worst. I'd be second guessing everybody. You'd be calling, showing up in a sweatsuit.

Imagine if I owned a piece of the Celtics right now. I'd be so mad. We haven't made a trade yet. Like, what are we doing? Oh, but say like the Timberwolves thing. Sammy and E. Smith and Grant Williams played 55 minutes today. They scored two points. What are we doing?

Take my calls. You know what would be great is you have baseline seats to Timberwolves games, right? And then as soon as the game is over, the local reporter is interviewing you. And you're just like, I don't know what the hell we're running. Like these coaches, you know, I'm not. I don't know what the hell we're running like these coaches you know i'm not i mean holy cross grant williams when house and i would set screens we always did this in our pickup games and this is bullshit i would just be like court i'd be like this is what house that i used to do 30 years ago just hold on hold on just watch this one thing and then you'd be calling teams that you have contacts with being like hey jared culver

could i get a top 14 protected? And then they would just guys would be like, Hey, how big was his check? Get them out of here. I would be like, uh, Bill Simmons is on the phone again.

He wants to talk about Malik Monk. Just want to, just want to see if you made any calls about Malik today. Uh, marketing. Wanted to see if you called about marketing today. Zach Lowe would be on TV before the trade deadline. And he'd be like, well, I can tell you what Minnesota is doing.

I actually would not leak. I'm anti leaking. I'm not a leaker. I don't think you would. Uh, I don't think you would, you would leak actually. Yeah. I agree with that part, but you'd be annoying. No, I'd, I'd be, I'd be brutal.

Like this Celtics situation. I would be losing my mind. There'd be a lot of emails. I'd send a lot of long emails with bullet points. And then I would sign my name in all caps at the bottom of the email. You would change the font size for points that you really want to make specific? Some thoughts about how this swingman situation can continue. Dot, dot, dot.

It'd be great. You could say like this fourth quarter it kind of reminds me when walberg shows up to the house in fear at the end and you know that your defense is good enough to resist but is it is your defense system good enough to win the game well it did make me think what if lebron really got into this red sox thing and like got into baseball and was sending notes about uh i don't know, Alex Verdugo. He's like, hey, I was wondering, why haven't we tried him in center? His defensive war is really good.

I was talking to Maverick about it today. Hey, when's Chris Sale coming back? I was thinking about how we should use him on innings. Maybe some five-inning starts start off. You know what? If Clutch starts repping baseball players, this could be amazing. I was thinking about how we should use him on innings. Maybe some five-inning starts start off. Hey, you know what? If Clutch starts repping baseball players, this could be amazing. Oh, my God.

Although I tell you that the NBA track record for the Celtics and Clutch, it doesn't seem to be a destination for that organization. So I don't know how that would be for baseball. It does not. Let's talk about LaMelo. LaMelo fractured his wrist, it seems. He said he's getting a second opinion. I'm not sure what that means.

I don't know. When he shot the free throw and it immediately hurt, it's jacked up. Devastating. That was my favorite. I mean, they were slumping a little bit, but that was still, I really liked that team. That was my favorite mediocre team. And now, you know, they could fill his minutes.

It might mean more time for my guy mock, but, um, I just hate losing young guys when they feel like they're becoming, you know, in such a formative time where he was just having a really special rookie season, certainly way better than, uh, than I expected. I don't know. I don't feel like it's enough for a rookie of the year. So it does seem like Edwards can possibly grab this, maybe Halliburton, if Halliburton had a strong last 20 games. But more importantly, from a trade deadline standpoint,

Charlotte was one of the teams I was really watching because I felt like that was a team, they have a clear problem at the five with the Zeller, Biambo, or Washington playing basically out of position as a five. But it was like, that's a team that could actually go out and get somebody that could fix that problem. And maybe they'd be interesting in a playoff series. But now without him, I don't see it. Do you see it?

Well, there's a weird thing with LaMelo, though. I don't know that, hornets fans will know this but you'd have to be a hardcore lamello guy to figure this out and i like you watched him a lot because i want to see some of the stuff that that i didn't see when i watched him in australia um they take them out in the key moments of the game right he's yeah I've gone back and tracked it and there are significant times like you know I don't I don't have I've gone back and looked at it and it was like two weeks of games where he'd be in to start and then he'd come out at the eight minute mark and then maybe he'd come in for the last minute so there was a couple times where he came in for like a

possession offensively then he'd be subbed back out. But I'm telling you, there were large chunks of when the game was in the balance where he wasn't on the floor because every defensive screw-up starts with him. So you're taking Ewing theory. Sounds like this is a Ewing theory. No, I'm just telling you,

I don't know that anybody else has mentioned this. And of course, it turns into like, oh, well, you didn't like him that much. No, I didn't like what I saw in Australia. No, we love LaMelo. Right.

NBA LaMelo, I'm all in. I love watching him. The weird thing is, and I said this in my pod, is he had such little respect for his Australian teammates that it factored in that I didn't realize when he showed up to the NBA he's like, no, these guys are good. I'm actually going to be a teammate with these guys as opposed to this dude

who just comes in and fires away horrible shots in Australia. But he didn't play great defense before. I don't care about defensive stuff. But the fact that they're competitive and they were even competitive last year with what I thought was probably one of the worst fives you would throw out there. I mean, when you really look at all those close games that they had. And so they, they also, they close really well. So it's not a constant. He would bring Lamello back in and some spots, but there were large chunks there in the fourth, but I don't think that would ever impact his rookie of the year. And as you say,

all right, well now they're probably done. I don't know. I mean, are they? Are they going to be done? Because now, you know, Graham, who needs the ball to be what he was before, and Rozier's been pretty good. I mean, they can kind of run that, and Hayward can kind of initiate your offense there too.

So I'll be curious to see what happens here. The stats are good. He's been terrific. He shot it way better than he ever has, whether it was Lithuania, Australia, or high school. He shot better at the NBA level, which is crazy because he'll still take some shots that you're like, whoa. But I don't know if it's a defensive thing where

what if they stay at the same record and close the same way? I don't know what the answer will be there, but it's definitely a real thing that I think Hornets fans are like, yeah, that's right. They take them out. I looked at it this way. I thought the strength of that team and the reason I enjoyed them was they always had good guards out no matter what point in the game it was, right? Where you look at like the Celtics on the flip side where it's like, yeah, it looks great when Brown and Tatum

are together, but what happens when one of those guys leaves the lineup? Then you're falling off a cliff. With Charlotte, it's just like whoever was out there plus the Hayward 32 minutes and then Miles Bridges when every once in a while when he would get going, it just seemed they had a lot of guys doing stuff. I thought the totality of that was what made them interesting. Now you just remove one

of those guys. Yeah, they could get by without him, but I like the totality piece. I'm not saying they're going to be better. I'm just pointing out something that was very specific in the fourth quarter. I'm just pointing out but I like the totality piece. And I, I also think that I'm not saying they're going to be better. I'm just pointing out something that was very specific in the fourth quarter. I'm just pointing out what I liked about them. So yeah, you're right. Was he, it's, was it like, you know, Memphis losing job or aunt?

No, but I thought their backcourt was just really different. Like they would have Devante Graham would come in off the bench and, um, in fourth the bench in fourth quarters and could win a game. They had all these different guys who could actually carry them and crunch time even Monk. So I don't like losing that. The other thing with the East, you look at like, and Atlanta made a run. There's a lot of reasons for that.

Atlanta's on an eight-game winning streak, but they played bad. You realize that's 8-0 with Nate, right? I know, 8-0 with Nate. The Lakers staying LeBron. Nate, no. You hit Nate, no. So Atlanta's in the fourth spot, and then it goes Miami, Boston, the Knicks, who just every game lose by

a point in an agonizing way where they don't get a call. Charlotte, Indiana, Chicago, and Toronto is still in the 11th spot. And Toronto's 17- 25. There's three games behind everybody right now for the 10 speed 10 seed. And we had trade deadline coming Thursday. And I think that I personally think that's a team that should be a seller.

We'll see if, you know, they're not going to trade just to trade, but I kind of like that group of basically from Atlanta through Toronto. You could tell me any of those teams could go on an 8-0 streak. I wouldn't be shocked. Like, I'm not shocked that Atlanta won their last eight. Are you?

A little. But you realize in March, they have the second best defense in the NBA behind Philadelphia. Philadelphia is like off the charts ahead of everybody else defensively. And that's why even without Embiid, they still have this really good record, even though Brooklyn's only a game behind and Milwaukee's only two behind. Atlanta winning eight in a row and it happening because of their defense is surprising. But you know who's lighting it up? It's somebody who has looked unplayable at times,

but they were going to play him because they spent money on was Danilo. I mean, he's shooting the hell out of the ball now and there were times where I'd watch him going what does he do like what does he do he just stands out there he doesn't do much off the dribble and then you look at the numbers and you go all right well now he's now he's hitting shots all the time and it all started against Miami it started with that Miami win where Trey had an awful game, came in, saw what was going to happen. He took like three 30-footers in a row,

hit them all and it was game and Trey won that game in like a two-minute span and when I looked at the defensive numbers from March on the splits and saw them at number two behind Philadelphia,

I couldn't believe it. They got Collins going a little bit lately too and Collins has been throwing around in these trade rumors, which I don't understand at all. The last thing this team needs is more picks. Update me. He's been available forever and he's I feel like he's, I always

caution myself on doing this because then it all gets aggregated. Because there's stuff that you'll hear and you're like, whatever. But it seems like they've warmed the idea of, let's see what happens with this guy, okay? Yeah. They're seeding right now.

Even though he turned down the $90 million, the qualifying offer for him is really low, which also makes him attractive as a trade chip. But you know what? You've been losing for a long time down in Atlanta. He may not be perfect. He's going to make some plays. He's going to want the ball a little're like, you know, he's going to want the ball

a little bit more maybe with all the offensive weapons. I mean, if you look at the roster when it's healthy, you're like, look, a lot of guys can make shots on this team. It feels like

with the ownership mandate, which Lloyd Pierce is a casualty of and the front office probably a little worried about it, that the sense around the league on Collins feels like, you know what,

he's been more available than he is now, if that makes sense. Not saying it's impossible for me to trade it, but you could kind of make sense of the whole thing of like, you know what, maybe we just run with these guys and we could still figure out and sign them in the offseason even if we don't love them as a player. Well, here's what they have coming up.

At Clippers, at Sacramento, at Golden State, at Denver, at Phoenix, at San Antonio, at New, at Phoenix, at San Antonio, at New Orleans. Yeah, we'll see then. Yeah. So don't print your Hawks Eastern Conference champion banner. But look, I think the East, I think the play-in game on the East, that 7, 10, 8, 9, all that stuff is going to be really good because all these teams are fun to watch.

All of them. Like even Indiana, now that Levert's back and that team's kind of fallen into place too, that team's also going to be, you know, a nutty trade deadline team. I'm prepared for anything with them. And then the Bulls, you know, they can hang with anybody. Nick, same thing. The Celtics ironically are probably the most depressing of that whole group, right? They had another team meeting over the weekend. They beat Orlando today just because they made a whole bunch of threes and they make a bunch of threes in a game. And it's like, Oh, Celtics, they fixed it. It's like, eh, not really.

It's a team that they don't get to the free throw line. They don't really have a bench. And if the threes don't go in, there's not really a plan B. And the Kemba not being able to play back-to-backs really, really hurts them because they just don't have enough good players. So I enjoy the East. I think this has been,

the East has always been kind of the black sheep of the two conferences year after year after year. And this is the first time where I feel like from an entertainment standpoint, they're right there. Plus, did you know Brooklyn has the best title outs right now? Yeah, it would make sense

because of the Davis injury. Plus 280 on Fandula. It's just nuts that they're rolling like this and it's still, oh, by the way, they get to ramp back. Let me do a quick run through on this because I'm with you on the East. The Wizards are better. They had a brutal start.

They had a brutal stretch. But Westbrook has been – I mean, some of Westbrook's shooting numbers, when you break it down monthly, he was at one point – I think last month Westbrook was 15% from three. He's 42% from three. So, yeah, I have it here. Westbrook's three-point shooting month-took was 15% from three. He's 42% from three. So yeah, I have it here. Westbrook's three point shooting month to month,

last three months, January, 41%, February, 15%, March, 42%. Uh,

the overall numbers of him are always 15%. How is that possible? Do you want to look it up? How is that even conceivable? Well, if anybody can do it, it's Westbrook. I'm looking at the splits.

Yeah. Wow. Jesus. Yeah. And I mean, he was still taking 15.4%. He was taking less that month, which was what turned his, his season around last year is when he stopped taking threes and the lane was wide open. So as bad as the wizards have been at times defensively and not really understanding the

rotation, they actually fought with the Nets today. And look, Westbrook is going to get up for those games. We saw how much he got up for the Durant-Nets game. He's going to get up for Harden and that kind of stuff. I thought one of the highlights today was Nick Claxton pushing Adia and pushing him out of the way. And Denny wasn't even in the play.

And I was just like, Nick Claxton is absolutely feeling himself right now because he's like, this is easy. League's easy, man. I just get all these free dunks all the time. This is awesome. The Wizards at least feel like on certain nights, a bit of a tougher out despite the fact the overall wrecking. And then, you know, when you lose that many games to COVID

in the middle of it and you have new pieces, I'm not, again, like everybody knows I'm not team, exactly team Westbrook over here and defensively still going to do a ton of shit that never makes any sense. Cleveland beat Toronto. Toronto's lost eight in a row. Toronto's defense is so bad and actually we'll get to the Celtics because I have a Celtics question for you.

Their defense is the worst in March. There's 120 points allowed per 100 possessions. They got everybody back for the Cleveland game and they still lost that one. But Siakam had only played three games this month. Van Vliet three games, OG only two games. So I don't know what to do with them. I don't know what's going to happen with Lowry.

It seems like a lot of teams would love to figure it out, but he's 35 years older. He's 35 this week. Chicago, I'm with you. They're fun. The Pacers-Levert thing actually scares me a little bit because there was something that happened with the Russell-Dinwiddie-Levert thing where they all carried the same Nets gene,

where as talented as they are as offensive players, they have no problem ignoring everybody else. So I think the Levert fit. They've won three in a row. But, I mean, shoot, it felt like a couple weeks ago the Pacers were the fourth seed. So let me ask you this about the Celtics. So you don't like the Levert-T.J. Warren playing on the court together fit? I like adding guys that can score,

but I just want you at some point to realize there are other guys that can score. And so is Brogdon going to shoot less now? Is Sabonis going to shoot less? And they ran, they got the heat, they blew a lead, they got him in overtime today, but they ran like, they were trying to attack Hero all the time and his numbers are in decline.

Have you looked at his shooting numbers lately? I think it was 4 for 16 today. He's averaging 17 a game. He's their third leading scorer, but he's not hitting threes. 17 a game, yeah. He's not hitting threes the way you see him as a shooter. Alright, so that all leads me. The whole reason I did that, if you're still

wondering why, Bill. I don't like saying this about teams, especially when I don't know, right? None of us travel with teams. I don't like saying this about teams, especially when I don't know, right? None of us travel with teams. We don't know. But there's like a void with this Celtics team that I can't figure out. They're soft.

I don't want to say it, but that's the word I keep thinking of. You can call a team soft without... We're not calling them like a bunch of pussies. They just play soft. They don't get to the free throw line. Teams push them around. You see a guy like Rashawn Holmes comes in

and just like feasts on them and they have nobody that can fight back. Smart was their tough guy, but Smart's, you know, been a shell of himself since he got hurt. Today was the first game, the Orlando game, the first game he started to look like Marcus, but Marcus is like the badass on the team.

The team is, it's just like a passive team of guys that don't really talk. Yeah, I'm wondering when they're going to be mad. Like, when are you guys going to be mad about it? And they never seem to be mad. There's a play that I'm going to bring up. When they were in that Nets game, and, you know, whatever, they got up early.

It doesn't matter, especially now. Jesus, I mean, 15 points, it's like nothing. Harden drives, gets Tice right in the midsection. I don't know if he got him in the gut or the man region, but he knocked the shit out of him.

Right? One of those Harden plays where Harden's really good disguising how hard he hits the defensive player to get him off of him, and nobody ever can figure it out. The rest will see some

crumpled-up body, and then Harden's already turning away after a layup. You're like, oh, I wonder what happened. Tice is curled up on the baseline after Harden makes the layup, and everybody's getting ready to get back for the Boston possession. Tice is hurting. Harden got him really good. And Tice looks up at the ref,

and the ref's looking at him like, check ball. Like, get up. And Tice is hoping he the ref, and the ref's looking at him like, check ball, like, get up. And Tice is hoping he can give him a second, and the ref didn't even have respect enough for Tice to, like, stop anything. So Tice gets up in, like, a heap, and I'm going, you know, if I'm Tice, fuck Harden.

Like, I'm going to get you once now. You just did that to me, and now I'm going to get, which I can't believe doesn't happen with some of these guys that are so vicious in how much contact they initiate as offensive players that nobody comes back. Maybe they're just worried about everything. Well, it is all going to get reviewed anyway, so don't worry about it. And Tice just took it.

Tice got crumpled. The ref didn't care. They didn't stop the game. He's going to get back in, hunched over, trying to get back and set up for the offensive possession, and nobody does anything. And then Kyrie dribbles through the entire team, and they're in a parade to go hug it out with Kyrie after the game and I'm not focusing on the Kyrie Boston all that shit because we've been over it all but I'm like this guy just worked you and you can't wait to dap him up and you have all these moments and this is somebody like you who watches them all the time because I like talking Celtics with my dad.

But I watch and be like, when are you guys going to get pissed off about how disappointing this season is? Because they shouldn't be this bad. Everybody has their ups and downs. The Kemba part's a big part of it. They get him back. When he shoots well, they look like a really good team. But they don't seem to ever have this life. There's a void with this team.

And I think it's real, and I think it's a problem. Yeah, I don't know if soft's the right word or passive or what. They're young too. I don't think that helps either. You look back at the 17 team, right? Crowders on that team. Marcus Smart.

Rogier. Jurebko, who was kind of secretly a badass, was always getting in the shit. Jurebco, who was like kind of secretly a badass was always like getting in a shit. Uh, Rozier was another one. This is breaking news. Jarebco was, he would,

he would get kind of feisty with people. And Isaiah was a tough guy too, but that team, that was like a lunch pail team, you know? And I think that's the 18 team, um, that,

you know, kept fighting and fighting that had the mark. Marcus Morris was the big addition that you're right, it was another guy. He's a frustrating guy to root for, but that guy was tough. He didn't put up with any shit. There's a toughness that's lacking with this team. You see it over and over again.

The Brooklyn thing bothered me too. It bothered me that they were like, hey, Kyrie, it's great to see you. Thanks for completely destroying us. Let's have a COVID hug. Um, I think that's more than anything why I think they're going to be making trades this week. I do not think this will be the roster on Friday because they, there's some sort of, they need older guys on the team. I think the team's too young. I think the leaders of the team who I love Tatum and Brown, I want to root for them their whole careers, but those are young guys. They're not, you know,

they're not, uh, young guys can't be mad. Like young. I see John Moran. I see John Moran like with fire all the time. I'm not saying it works all the time. Um, but I don't, I don't see what, you know, I think every team that's good, the personality at Tatum and Jalen though, I don't think those are those kind of guys. That's why the Marcus piece is so important, though. Yeah, no, you're right. Like, my frustrations with Smart, but, you know, when he was out, it's like, oh, okay, they don't have Smart.

I was like, maybe, and then he's back, and it's not really any different. But I also think it's hard to be, like, the fourth best player because I also think he frustrates those guys. Clearly, we've already heard about it. I mean, we heard about the one that was public where it was like those guys got into it a little bit with Jalen and Smart and maybe it's just guys getting mad at each other after game but there's there's this void with them where you keep waiting for them to get like hey you guys are better than some of these teams like this past weekend I know they go to Orlando today because

they made a million threes but I don't know you get worked by Sacramento and Cleveland. Sacramento was like, they just played harder. And Rashawn Holmes was the best part of the floor for some reasons. It just dominated them. And you're watching it going, what the hell? All right. We're going to take a break.

So we're still on. I are, we're going to do a trade deadline show on Thursday and we'll start it like probably a half hour before the deadline and then go all the way through and then try to post it as fast as we possibly can on Thursday afternoon. So I don't want to do too much trade stuff today. But I was looking at, I was trying to figure out what the Knicks could do. Because they have 15 million in cap room, which I think is really a fun wrinkle with them. And they have some expirings, too. And I kind of like their team.

You think like RJ. RJ has basically been a 20-point-a-game guy since, I don't know, the last 10 games, where it's starting to look like it's coming together for him. Randall's been good all year. And I was trying to figure out, like, Drummond can't be bought out. He's too good to be bought out. As frustrating of a player as he is, he can't shoot free throws.

Good stats, bad team guy. He's too good to be bought out. This is not Blake Griffin. Like somebody needs to trade for him. There are teams that could use somebody like him. And it just seems like they're a natural Drummond team. And the question is like, if you put Drummond on that team

and we've never really seen him on a good team other than that one year with Blake when Blake was really good two years ago, and even that team wasn't that good. But if you put him on this team playing for a new contract with all the other stuff they have going, is that something you'd want to see? Drummond just doesn't get me that excited. i think that's it he's bad reason there yeah it doesn't doesn't do much more i was talking to a team this week that was like hey when did this go home and then we ruin our own trade value for you because everybody thinks you're going to be bought out thing become accepted it was pretty interesting because it's like lamarcus aldridge

doesn't suck but now because he lost his job to Pirtle. And by the way, when Draymond made his rant about how this was a double standard, the players are fine not playing. Okay? So if the players were mad... Especially in the COVID year.

Right. If players were super mad about being sat down, then I think we'd probably hear from a few of them. But I agree that Drummond seems to be somebody good enough, but the number is so big on him in the trade,

and that's probably why you're thinking Knicks, right? Yeah, because they could absorb the number. I mean, you average 15 rebounds a game. That's not nothing. No, you're right. That's just a high number. That's not somebody that the fucking Lakers should be able to get for free in March.

I just hope somebody steps up and makes a move, whether it's Charlotte or whoever. Charlotte would probably love him because of the rotation they have right there. But I don't mean we're talking about what, 25-5 this year? I threw this trade at house, marking in for top and straight up. Oh, my God. He's 20. Yeah, he's for Toppin straight up. Oh my God. He's 20. Yeah, he's 28-7. Sorry.

28-7. Marking in for Toppin straight up. I think I'd say no if I were the Bulls. You'd say no if you're the Bulls. Yeah. Really? What do you do with Marking in's contract this summer? You still have no idea if he's good or not. I personally would be trading for him, but... What do he do with Markkinen's contract this summer? You still have no idea if he's good or not.

I personally would be trading for him, but... What'd he do? What if he's like, hey, I can make 80... I got an $80 million offer from the Kings. I think I'm going to take it. Unless you guys match. I know, that sucks. Any interest?

It's like the Bogdanovich thing. Hey, looks like Atlanta's offering me 75. You guys interested? That's how I feel about the Oladipo deal, where it's like, hey, we got Oladipo for four years, max. Awesome.

Well, he's another one. That's a good swing guy. Do you want to do a Poku corner? I feel like I didn't do enough on your drumming corner. I like the idea. I just, if I were a team trying to a Poku corner? I feel like I didn't do enough on your Drummond corner. I like the idea. I just, if I were a team trying to get Drummond and then I was told I couldn't get him, I'd be able to get through the rest of the day.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on Drummond. It just, he's not a buyout guy. It bothers me. He's too productive. Yeah, that's fair. This is not like PJ Brown near the end of his career this is not blake griffin who's probably 99 done but you know damon stoudemire remember how bad everybody wanted him that year oh my god what were some other classic ones uh stefan marbury is another

one yeah most of the time it ends badly no it, it ends up. Yeah, it ends up. You know what my favorite one is? The Warriors were the 73-win team. We realized what happened in the finals. They come back the next year. They've got Durant. And so that's 17. And the Cavs brought in Bogut and Darren Williams. Oh, Bogut.

Yeah, those are good ones. And Bogut played eight seconds. And you got her. Darren Williams. Oh, Bogut. Yeah, those are good ones. Bogut played eight seconds and you got her. Darren Williams actually played a little bit, but it reminds me a little bit of what's happening with the Blake thing with the Nets. I don't know how much of that you watched today. I had it on. Okay, give me your thoughts.

My thoughts have not changed. I texted you. No, I texted you. I was like, look, I know this game. I know the I can't no I texted you I was like look I know this game I know the I can't do anything anymore

on a basketball court so I'm gonna keep the ball moving set some screens cut make make it seem like I'm doing stuff

but I'm really not doing anything so we're talking like the first week of Batum with the Clippers but again Batum settled in and started making shots and he's

he's a legit part of the rotation so I think to say that about Batum can guard peopleippers. But again, Batum settled in and started making shots and he's a legit part of the rotation. So I think to say that about... Yeah, but Batum can guard people. Blake's not going to be able to guard people like that. He doesn't have the lateral movement anymore.

He's not explosive that way. And it seemed like they were thinking about playing him like as a dream on kind of a small five, which I don't see at all. I just don't think he's going to play for them ultimately.

I'm not going to worry about what he looked like in his first game back in, what, five weeks? So the thing with the Nets is he's going to end up having, he's going to have, let's say, 17 one night, and everybody's going to say that he's back. And what happens with this Nets team, because Harden's so good at getting the other guys

open looks and just free ones all the time, is Blake's going to have some night where the help is towards Harden. Imagine when Durant's back. I bet you Blake has a night just by default because no one's guarding him and they're guarding all the other guys. But what happens is, is the headline is Blake Griffin of the nets. And then Lakers fans out here are like, God damn it. Like who are we getting? And you're like, all right, well, I don't, I don't think the balance happens here. You know, where if Drummond ends up with somebody um in a buyout right and

ends up with a contender we get like really excited on the recency bias of it all and the reason i bring up bogut and darren williams with that is i remember a very prominent voice in sports talk after the calves added those two pieces was like well that's it balance of power is shifted and i i went up to him was like i don't normally do this but like are you you really think adding Bogut and Darren Williams at this stage now makes this Cavs team like now they're gonna beat the Warriors with the rant that sounds stupid Boogie the last couple years was like this too Boogie was another one when he went to the Warriors is like this isn't even fair and I'll you know give it to Boogie he had some treaches there where it seemed like he was a lot more locked in than he's ever been anywhere else.

But I don't even know if a healthy Boogie made them. But you're right. Like every time, and I'm just prepping everybody for this. When the buyout stuff happens and you see the guy photoshopped in his new jersey and all that, then it just turns into like, oh, whoever just got the last guy then becomes vaulted. It's like the favor in the conference. And it usually doesn't work out that way. Baron Davis was another one back in the day.

You know, what struck me with Blake today, the thing that's left with his game is his passing. Oh, great passer. Yeah. They were throwing it to him and then he can do the one handed thing and he could just zip it around.

But I think teams are going to eventually realize like, just play the passing lanes. Let him try to actually like, try to create a shot, just guard them one-on-one. passing lanes. Let him try to actually like, try to create a shot. Just guard him one-on-one. Let him just let him try to do something. Because if he's trying to do something, that's a hundred times better for us than if Harden or Kyrie or Kevin

Durant are trying to do something. So let Blake do his thing, please. That's why he's going to have a couple of nights here in the regular season where people are going like, is he back? Well, there's a cool element to this. And I think regular season where people are going like, is he back? Well, there's a cool element to this.

And I think this is why people are rooting for it. Just to, there's going to be a scenario where Harden, Durant, Kyrie and Blake are all going to be on the team together. And it's going to be like, holy shit. Can you imagine in 2013,

if we had told ourselves that these four guys would be on the same team, like that, we'd lose our minds, but it's, you know, the reality is they're different guys. I, I, to me, the Durant piece is such a bigger storyline

with them than Blake Griffin coming back. Where Durant missed a year and a half of basketball, and since he's came back, we haven't been able to see him play for 10 straight games? Maybe. I don't know that it's much more than that. Now he's got

this hamstring thing that seems like it's now a month-long injury. And we're not supposed to be worried about that. But I don't like when guys who have played a lot of minutes already in a lot of games and now they hit this phase of their career where they just can't stay on the court for whatever reason. I don't think that's a good sign. All right, Poku time. What are you seeing? Okay, I figured it out

okay there is no player with a lower floor and i'm not going to say higher ceiling the disparity between the ceiling and the floor is the right widest he has the single greatest variance of any player that gets real minutes in the NBA today. And I will start with all the compliments because that organization is incredible.

I cannot believe they've won this many games this year. They've had to cycle through all of these different plays. It's not like they just have their five and they roll it out there.

If you're not ready to play the Thunder, you're going to lose. All right? Yeah. And I still would look at their offense and their rotations going, how is this team winning?

Their offense, like there was a time too when they had a decent record, like 11 and 15 I thought was amazing for them. And their point differential was way worse. And I was like, all right, it'll run its course. And it hasn't. They won again. I mean, are they at 20 wins now? Because that was the over-under for them.

I think they're just behind it. I think they're 18 and 24. 18 and 24. I think their over-under was 21 in the season. So they're going behind it. I think they're 18 and 24. 18 and 24. I think their over-under was 21 on the season. So they're going to obviously get that. And their point differential is worse than every team in the West except for two. But look, it's not like they're great in the standings.

All right. So Pokaszewski, we knew that he could pass for a big guy, even though he looked like he weighed about 112. And the footage of where he played the competition was not uh tense okay he also well the footage showed a guy who was like 174 pounds and seven feet tall now he's probably a crisp 188 maybe and he kind of looks like the guy on the instagram videos that gets his haircut and you like, oh my gosh, what did they do to this guy? And another thing I've learned having Instagram is that international people don't know how to cook eggs properly. You just burn the shit out of them and abuse them.

But that's another. We'll table that. We'll do that on my podcast. So Pogoszewski, in their win against Houston, by the way, where Houston ran ISO John Wall down to game winning three to win it because the John Wall down to game-winning three to win it because the rule is down to two-pointers don't count. You only can shoot threes now. But that was a

secret weird game because OKC has the top four Houston pick. So Houston actually needed to lose the game, but Houston wanted Houston to win the game. And now it's coming down to the stretch, but you can't tell the players to tank. There's just a lot of game. And now it's coming down to the stretch. But you can't tell the players to tank.

There's just a lot of shit going on. I was listening to it on the radio. I was enjoying it. That's weird that you were listening on the radio. I was driving back from Vegas. It's weirder than either of us watched the whole game. But Christian Wood, I think, at 27. And he also did something that was awesome.

Where he didn't get the ball the last couple possessions. And when they were coming out of the timeout for the john wall he just shook his head the whole time he was standing by the bench so they're getting ready to check in and christian would just shook his head because he wanted everyone to know fuck this like yeah i'm not getting the ball enough i'm the man and it's why despite his immense talent they're like some of the teams that he's left have been like all right yeah good okay okay and he of the teams that he's left have been like, all right. Yeah, good luck. Okay, okay.

And he's been awesome. Look, he's an incredibly talented guy. He's carried over and duplicated, more than duplicated everything he was doing production-wise when he was with Detroit. So Pokaszewski had a stretch where he dribbled right and just fell down on his own. Like just yard sale right at the baseline. Somebody grabs the basketball

away from him. He comes down the next time, hits a three. Like, and it was nice. And the best thing about Pokaszewski's is passing because you're like, holy, like where the hell

did this guy learn how to play basketball? Well, he does this thing where he beats the guy off the dribble, but he's always thinking slash and kick. But he's like seven foot one and half the time you think if you just kept dribbling,

that's probably a layup or a dunk. But he's always dumping it, trying to find shooters. Like he's like seven foot one. And half the time you think, if you just kept dribbling, that's probably a layup or a dunk. But he's always dumping it, trying to find shooters. Like he's LeBron. He's one of those strangest players I've ever watched because even when I was talking to people about him for the draft, in teams that didn't even like him,

we're like, dude, that guy throws some passes though. But what I always loved about him, and I would tell you, and I'd send you clips of it, I'd be like, this guy gets so pissed off when he doesn't get the ball he's so mad and I was like I wonder if he's gonna do that in the NBA he's like yeah yep he's doing the same thing like he'll be like 30 feet out on the weak side clapping being like how have you not swung this back over to me so he falls down no one touches him and it looks like how's this guy even in the league and then he hits a

three and you go okay and by the way he's so young that none of this matters and that there's actually some real positives in it all right so this is mostly a positive thing and then he hits the three and then they come down again and this is after he lost like two people in transition defense and it was a disaster like he didn't even know who to close out on yeah helped where he wasn't supposed to help pick the wrong guy in transition after he he hit the three, he came down, and he was probably like 27 feet at the break. And I go, he's wide open. If you pass it to him right now, it's going to be Guinness record out of his hands.

I mean, he, and it was awesome, airball. It was out of his hands so fast that it was like not even, and then it was, you know, I mean, if he were American, he would have blown on the hands afterwards to make sure they were right temperature. He's the all-time quick-release guy who has no business being an all-time quick-release guy. The other thing about him, if you made a rule that

basically the eight feet of the paint leading toward the basket was just had an electric current. Hot lava? If you stepped on it, you'd be electric current, hot lava stepped on it. You'd be here, hot lava. So don't go near that thing. Or you might something bad will happen.

And then you said, what would it be like if somebody was playing like that? You'd pick him because he has a fear of being within eight feet of the basket. On the other end, he'll like block shots and stuff, but offensively, he just really wants to be 25 feet away at all times.

He wants to be, you know, instead of being, uh, on the first floor of the house, he just, he likes to view at the top. He likes to view from far away. I get it. I get a kick out of him. His body is unlike anybody that has ever succeeded at an NBA level. I mean, let's be honest. Although Bertans, he's video. he's like that guy's jacked right but i mean like they think this guy might be like an all nba guy someday they're they're like all in on him no there's some people that like are going you know he's the age where he was playing and that he's doing this now i mean look he'll have games you go through his game log and you go i can't believe you took an 11th shot. Like, what were you doing that day?

And then, you know, he'll be, I think he's had two, two for 11 games. I got to check my Poku notes here again. Well, the free throws, he's, he shot zero free throws in every single game except two. Two of his last five games, he shot free throws in. I would say this. He shot eight free throws for the whole season.

When he does go into that danger zone of the paint, though, that's when he does, you're right, on the kick. And then he hit it around the back. I think it was at the G League showcase where I was like, I don't know if five guys in the NBA would even attempt this pass. And it was sick. It was unbelievable.

It's funny how protective the fan bases get of guys like this when you're having kind of a crap season. Um, cause I, you know, obviously I've had a few crap Celtic seasons of my day, but I remember Gerald green was one of those guys where he'd be like, Gerald green was basically his rookie season was similar to poke.

It was mostly a train wreck. And then there was a couple of gems and you'd latch onto those gems or that one dunk in traffic or whatever. No, he's getting it. I mean, he's got all the tools. He's got all the tools. You remember that late March, early April run Gerald Green had? Yeah.

I started to call that like the fool's gold season of the NBA. And I'm afraid in a weird way, we're having a full season of it. But there would be this stretch of like last 10 or 12 games where everybody was tanking you know two-thirds of the league is tanking and then you would see these guys have these incredible offensive stretches and then it was almost like winning your bowl game winning like the idaho bowl and you'd be coming in the next year going dude this guy this guy has it figured out but it's such a great point about the fan part of it, which, you know, you can feel detached because you do this for living. But my analysis is my net.

My analysis is watching players and, you know, I'm, I like my track record. Sometimes I'm wrong about him, but you know what? It's never factored in is my emotional attachment where if this guy's better, I feel better.

Right. You know? So if your argument to me is I'm wrong about the player and you're right, because it'd be awesome if he was really good for your favorite team, then we're not going to talk about it. I looked up Gerald Green's second season when they were tanking for the Duran Oden lottery. The 76th game of the year, they lost to Atlanta by eight. This was after they lost their last. They had an eight-game losing streak.

And he was on a stretch where he scored 21-12-33. I'm telling you, this is that stretch. Against Atlanta, 22-21. And then that KG trade, it was like, ah, can we give up Gerald Green? I mean, can he be in the trade? We're already giving up Al Jefferson. We have to throw in Green.

But my point is, you get irrationally attached to these young guys with potential. And Poku is the greatest example of that. I guarantee there's OKC people right now listening to this like, hey, man, lay off fucking Poku, man. He's only 19. That's Kevin O'Connor. Kevin O'Connor

gets mad at you or I, making funny. Here's the deal. The Poku clips that are bad... Well, he has a sense of humor about it, at least. Right, but the bad Poku clips are hilarious. Okay? They're just... They're fucking hilarious. And maybe he's going to be really good. He's really young. Presti's

got a good track record. And that whole organization, they should win some sort of award because I can't believe how competitive they are. There's not really a ton of guys in that roster that'd be starting on good teams. But yes, the Poku thing may work out, but give us this. You have to admit

deep down, when the highlights are bad, it's bad. I mean, there's a lot of things about him that if you catch him for... I can't believe we're still talking about him. Well, if you catch him for the wrong minute, you're like, this is unbelievable.

Did Sam Presti lose a bet? How long before they give this up? And then, you know, I watched the Memphis game. After he lit it up, I went back and watched the second half on the NBA app and he looked pretty good. Like he looked a little Turkish. Then you're like,

Oh my God, what do we miss here? Uh, yeah, he's, if you're them, this is the most fun version of a shit season you could possibly have. You have no chance of not being one of the three worst teams in the West.

Right. And yet somehow they're not one of the three worst teams. Shay each. I would say when you consider. He didn't play today. Yeah. No, but I'm saying with Shea, like maybe the Clips could have gotten Paul George without even throwing them in.

If they had really stuck to their guns, I don't know. Presti obviously was going, we're getting Shea. But you think like the picks were the story of that trade with the people who didn't actually watch Clipper games. It's like, oh my God, look at all those picks and pick swaps. And I was like, yeah, they also gave up Shea. And by the way, when I said earlier that there's nobody on the team, Shea not playing today, clearly every team in the league would want Shea.

I mean, he arguably should have been an all-star this year. And whatever you thought of him before, where you just, whenever, I remember the first time I saw him in person, I went, oh, shit. Like, there's something. Now, I didn't love the playoff stretch, but we can just chalk it up to being young his first time through it. But he's taken it to another level, and he would be, any team would want that guy.

So, yeah, they have at least one of those pieces. I love Dort, too. Yeah, Dort shot it. I mean, Dort went from, why is he shooting, in that Houston game or Houston series where you know it just felt like

everything was a struggle for them offensively you know even though it goes seven games I think just watching that series you just went everything's a struggle for the Thunder

where when Houston gets rolling it just feels easier for him but yeah Dort Dort's been a big a big cluster we'll save

we'll save the rest of our NBA stuff for Thursday and we'll do the trade deadline what's your non-sports thing? Is Matthew Modine back? A Modinescence? Yeah.

So I saw him in Wrong Turn, which I thought was really good. I genuinely liked it. The remake of Wrong Turn. Did you know he was in that? No. I was taught he's in the Operation Varsity Blues Netflix scandal. Which is really good Chris Smith did that yes that is really good excellent he's awesome in it Modine's awesome in it I thought

when I heard that was the idea for the movie I was like that's not gonna work reenactments like people have tried this this never works and it actually worked he's also the of the avenging dad in a wrong turn and he's really good in that also the avenging dad in Wrong Turn and he's really good in that too. I think we're in a Modena-sense. I think it's happening. Maybe you lit a fire under him when you guys went at each other on Twitter.

He was pissed at me. Yeah. Could have happened. He was legitimately pissed, I think. Because I was like, oh, he's still going at me? He's like, whatever, man. All right. So that was your non-sports thing, the Modena-sense?

Yeah, and I would recommend the Netflix doc on the college scandal. It's a good watch. Don't go into it thinking it's going to win an award or something. Just go into it. But you haven't watched Beartown yet. No, I'm on a Peaky Blinders run. I finally got to that. Did you ever watch it?

No, I didn't watch it. Why not? Just haven't gotten it. You're missing out. It's worth it. Yeah?. Why not? Just haven't gotten it. You're missing out. It's worth it. Yeah? Yeah. Same reason you haven't gotten to Beartown.

I haven't had a lot of time. I've been watching basketball. I've been watching... I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but... Just once. You know what? I'll get on it this week. But, you know, when you're watching Thunder Rockets games

on Sunday afternoon in LA and it's nice out, that means you're just locked in. Pluto has been... They have a Johnny Carson channel and I keep drifting over there to see who the guests are. And it's like stepping into an alternate universe. I highly recommend it. Do you have Pluto? Give me your highlights right now.

I told a story on the rewatchables tomorrow about the best, I don't want to step on that. On the rewatchables, I told a story about this one I saw, um, last week, which I thought was amazing. I'll tell you who I saw the other day though. Um, Joan Rivers, who I think has now been lost in history as being hilarious. She came on and crossed 19 lines. I think that the funniest thing about these old shows is we're so hypersensitive to any sort of trigger joke, any trigger word, all these things where you hear somebody making those jokes. Oh, they're going to get in trouble. And then tonight show, they're just blowing through the stop signs.

And it's just over the course of some night in 1975, I watched this one. It was Glenn Campbell and Don Rickles sitting there. And Glenn Campbell looked like he was on something. Don Rickles. And he keeps interrupting Don Rickles. And it's unbelievable. It's like this wasn't that long ago. It was less than 50 years ago that we interacted in this completely inappropriate, politically

incorrect way. And it's really hilarious. So I've been enjoying that just because I feel like it's like going into a different universe who's your favorite guest on those like who's your who's your like okay i'm not doing anything i'm watching this entire thing i know there's a lot rickles right yeah rickles rickles i mean he'd be rickles could never really make it on tv he had a bunch of he was on cpo Sharky and you know, his big things, he was a variety shows, but it was like Carson was where he made his bones. He would go on Carson.

He would just kill. Um, but Joan was another one who I think was, was really underrated. But, uh, the, but watching, especially the seventies ones, the command that Carson had, uh, of just there's five, four or five people on the couch and he's like the dad lording over everything and they'll poke fun at him, but he can't like go too far. Yeah. Or he'll come back with like a fucking zinger and he'll just like shoot you down.

And then Ed's over on the corner and he's like joking it and you never know like how sauced Ed was. And it's just, it's really something. It's so unpredictable. That's, you know, I think TV now where you have to be predictable. That's part of how you have to do these shows, right? You got to do it the same way with the same things.

And, you know, you got to cater it certain ways and it's just fucking crazy. But when Kimmel was doing his show, that was initially how we wanted to model the show was after the old Carsons and the Mike Douglas where it was just like, put people on the couch. You never know what's going to happen. Nobody would want to risk that now.

So why did you try to do that early on with Kimmel? Oh, yeah. I remember you guys had the bar thing and that was a disaster, right? We had the, yeah, that got canceled, but we had the guest host. Every week, there was a different guest house guest host every, every week there was a different guest host.

So that, and they would be out for the whole show. And then when the other guests would come on, everybody would stay and they, and the couch would just kind of fill up. But what you find out when they do the focus groups of people like, yeah, people don't like the guest host. That was, that's what happens. The focus groups go ahead. That's it.

They kill everything. You know, what's tough is anything new, obviously obviously but there's just such a buy-in with carson that you have to like i grew up watching the reruns during the day um and you just i don't know like as a kid i was just like there's something about this where you just assumed it was great you know and i'm not saying it wasn't yeah you didn't have as many options obviously but there's something to be said about okay i'm we're so critical and and nasty because and maybe it's because of the way we are now or because we have so many options but imagine turning something on now being like okay i'm thrilled about this i have no idea what's going to happen but i'm just thrilled and i can't wait to be entertained i don't know that any of us watch stuff that way

and that's how i used to watch that show where i was like i can't wait to be entertained. I don't know that any of us watch stuff that way. And that's how I used to watch that show where I was just like, I can't wait to see what they're going to do on this. And even though, you know, it can feel outdated and all that kind of stuff, they just, I can't imagine how much fun that run in Hollywood was like when you were in that group and all these entertainers. I'm sure there's some version of it now, which I thought you were going to introduce me to, but it hasn't happened yet.

But whenever I think about los angeles and those people like running the town it must be i mean there's books and all that kind of stuff but it just must have been unbelievable and then to be like hey i'm going to do carson again you know next week oh all right yeah i'm going to be by and all that kind of stuff and just you know i know there's probably people that didn't like each other and all that kind of stuff but i don't know i'm always very enamored with the whole thing because it seems so foreign to me. Me too. It's going to send me on a Carson book run, I think. I have one of the books, but I think I'm going to zip through some of them. I'm going to go through a 60s, 70s old Hollywood run, I think is going to be my next book run. Just kind of dive into it um because after you guys did the chevy chase stuff what did you do you did caddyshack right rewatchables and then you guys did a big chevy chase thing and so then i read the snl book yeah um the oral history one that you you recommended to me and the

chevy chase stuff is so good that i got into kind of a wormhole of his interviews like when he was the king and it was unbelievable um and then it was after the cocaine run and then i forget who it was asked about cocaine and he just shitting on the guy interviewing him it was the funniest thing ever and then for whatever reason chevy chase like really didn't like bruce dern really and he's being asked about bruce dern and he's just like crushing bruce dern but it was it was really like chevy was annoyed the guy like you have me on the show and then you're asking me about coke and Chevy just turned on the guy but he did it in the way that like when Chevy was at his the height of his powers it was

so funny like he just crushed this and I think it might have been trying to think who it was because it was one of the main guys that was interviewing him and he just turned on him i don't know chevy chase is a good rabbit hole there's some good internet rabbit holes he's one of them there's good interviews there's good features about him over the years you you can you can go a lot of places with that i went through a norm one because yeah norm's one of the better youtube rabbit holes right because i had nate bargazzi on who i love and we had him on again because the specials out and at the end of the better YouTube rabbit holes. Right. Because I had Nate Bargatze on, who I love, and we had him on again because the special's out. And at the end of the interview, I pitched him a couple jokes,

but I went into it knowing, like, this isn't going to work. And I had texted him ahead of time. Yeah. To be like, hey, this is my plan. And he wasn't into it on text. And I was like, oh, this is going to be a disaster. And it didn't work.

And I just thought it was funny. So I was researching, like, comedians that do bad jokes. And Norm has this whole clip of on the show that he used to have where he'd have guests come by and read the jokes that those guys wrote and they read them back to him. And they're just funny enough that they still work despite like they're still actually funny because it's Norm's sense of humor, but I can't imagine anybody else being able to pull it off. And you're right. Norm's a perfect example of it just, it works. And on YouTube, Norm's terrific. Norm MacDonald, for those that may think we're talking about cheers. Yeah, just Google Norm MacDonald, Courtney Thorne-Smith.

Okay, so Thursday, you and I, right before the trade deadline, we're going to start taping. We'll get that up. We think it's going to be a good trade deadline, right? There's too many teams that are kind of in that, fuck it, maybe we could be better. Maybe we could get a four seed. Maybe we could get a five seed.

Maybe we could flip the switch. That I think there's going to be some desperation. I really do. I don't think it's going to be a dead trade deadline. There's a counter to that, though, with the play-in game and some of the teams that have felt stale for such a long time that, hey, we get to make the playoffs now. Having the 10th best record in the conference, which I still think...

You're going to know you're not going to be able to do anything in the playoffs, though. I think it would be the counter. All right, we got to go. We got to put this podcast up. We went 12 minutes past our due date. I will see you on Thursday. Sounds good.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Don't forget about a new Rewatchables going up on Monday night. Insidious. An influential horror movie. So influential you probably didn't even realize how influential it was, but that's coming on Monday night if you love horror movie. So influential, you probably didn't even realize how influential it was, but that's coming on Monday night if you love horror films.

Check that out, and we'll be back on this feed on Tuesday. See you then. I don't have feelings within. On the wayside.