The Bill Simmons Podcast - Celtics Panic and All-Star Arguments Galore With Kevin O’Connor

Episode Date: February 15, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O'Connor to discuss the Celtics' underwhelming 13-13 season and what Boston can do to turn it around (2:30) before discussing their NBA All-Star ballots for the East (29:00) and West (1:06:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, if you love basketball podcasts, check out the Ringer NBA show. We moved real ones to twice a week with Logan Murdoch and Raja Bell. And lately on the Thursday episodes, they've been having ex-players every once in a while. Tim Duncan, Sean Marion, Quentin Richardson was on last week. Check it out. That podcast is getting better and better. Real ones on the Ringer NBA show twice a week. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet at all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the

Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way if you were wrong. You could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game across the Sunday slate, offensive TDs in the next drive. They have so much stuff, it's crazy.

The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus, look out for FanDuel Squares this season. Here's what you have to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly. Plus look out for FanDuel squares this season. Here's what you have to do. Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit RG-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by my old friend, Miller Lite. I've been a big fan of Miller Lite,

man, since college days when I was allowed to have beer. I think nephew Kyle is a fan too. Miller Lite keeps it simple for us. Undebatable quality, great taste. Picture this, it's game day. All the gang's here. You're tailgating outside the stadium. It's a great time for beer. Or how about when you're standing at the grill and the smell of sizzling burgers is in the air?

Moments like that. Or when you want a light beer that tastes like beer, that's delicious. You don't want to load up on those heavier beers and then you only have two of them. Then you feel tired. Your stomach feels full. Miller Lite, it's your friend.

It just accompanies whatever else you're doing. You're super happy with it. Opening an ice cold Miller Lite can signal the beginning of Miller time. Miller Lite is the light beer with all the great beer tastes we like. 90 calories per 355 mil can. So why not grab some Miller Lights today?

Your game time tastes like Miller time. Must be legal drinking age. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com and The Ringer Podcast Network, where stay tuned. We might be announcing a couple things over the next couple of weeks. I am on the rewatchables twice this week. Sleeping with the Enemy is going to be

Monday and then Wednesday. Coming to America, which is available on Amazon Prime for free. So yeah, Sleeping with the Enemy and Coming to America this week on the rewatchables. And if you like hearing me on podcasts, don't forget Jacoby and I every Wednesday night, breaking down whatever the latest episode of the challenge was for 25 minutes on the ringer dish podcast. So subscribe to that one. And you can listen to Kevin O'Connor's podcast, the mismatch, which got its own feed this year. They're doing it twice a week. He's doing a great job for us. He is on next. We're going to talk about the Celtics, the All-Star game,

All-Star selections, Ben Simmons, all kinds of stuff. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. He's on the mismatch podcast, which got spun off this year into its own feed. More importantly, a huge Tom Brady defender,

a champion of the Tom Brady goat argument and vindicatedicated yet again as Tom Brady won his seventh Super Bowl. You must have been proud, KFC. Felt great, Bill. It was an amazing night. Amazing. Number seven and hungry for more. He's always said, what's your favorite ring? What's your favorite ring?

The next one. The next one. It's funny. It took me betting on him every round in the playoffs to really get sucked in completely and be back in and forgive him. Speaking of Boston sports, it's panic time for the Celtics. It really started Friday night with the, with a terrible loss to the Pistons and KFC and I were going to do a whole all-star thing. We have a bunch of great topics, but the Celtics thing's pretty relevant because

I was looking at the East standings and right now, and we're taping this it's five 30 Sunday night Pacific time. Philly's 18 and nine Milwaukee is 16 and 10 playing right now, Brooklyn 16 and 12. After that, it's not a dip. It's a crater. And I don't feel like any other team right now is remotely in the cross of those top three. The team that you would have expected was the Celtics Indies had, they've had injuries. They've had, you know, big trade stuff like that. The Celtics to be 13 and 13. I know there's some reasons Tatum got, got COVID when they were seven and three.

Smart got hurt. Kemba hasn't been right. But this weekend losing today badly to a terrible Washington team that they killed a few weeks ago. This was a cry for help loss. And what, like,

is there a trade coming? What do you think happens here? I mean, we're finding out what happens when you let Cantor and want to make her just walk for nothing. Clearly. God, when you,

when you have the missing watermaker, you know, things have gone badly. I mean, there's so much wrong bill right now that the lack of ball movement, the lack of off ball movement with players cutting and screening, and it feels like the Celtics are falling apart before our eyes right now. And yet I still look at this team on paper and you see Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown in

their young twenties, averaging 26 points per game. You still look at guys like Grant Williams and Peyton Pritchard and they're solid young role players look at Tristan Thompson and Daniel Tice they're solid role players but there's something wrong with the mix and when you see Jalen Brown after the game being asked about the lack of ball movement and he pauses for a long time and just says no comment it feels like the Celtics are at a point like in past years where there's something wrong with the mix with the chemistry in the locker room because it's hard to pinpoint something specifically with the roster other than the fact that kemba looks like a total shell of his former self except for today of course but kemba does not look like the same guy overall i don't know

which one thing it is i mean like where do you put the blame like at the top of the the blame chart here i i don't know it just feels like is. I mean, like, where do you put the blame, like, at the top of the blame chart here? I don't know. It just feels like a big mix of everything that's wrong. Yeah, it's weird. If you were in Europe or something and you didn't have League Pass and you're just looking at the stats, you'd be like, ah, it doesn't look that bad.

It's really hard to find little pieces. But, like, one thing, you mentioned the lack of ball movement. They're 28th in assists, or they were heading into this game. They're 22.3. That's a tiny red flag. They're 19th in scoring. They're under 111 a game now, which you would think if, when you, if you, if I was going to tell you, Jalen's going to score 26 a game this year, you'd be like, wow, that's amazing. They're going to be one of the highest scoring teams in the league.

They're actually hitting threes. They're, you know, they're like 37, 38%. So that has been a problem. Five and 10 in their last 15 games. And here's what I see from the eye test, which is very similar to what you just laid out. It's a team that lost its confidence in what it is over the course of the post COVID Tatum, Tim going away, two tough losses in Philly. Smart goes down in the Lakers game. And then over the course of that West Coast trip,

where they're in these games and they can't execute at the end because they don't have that third scorer that scares anybody. And over and over again, you see Tice taking open threes. The game Friday night, they're down three with a minute left. They get a turnover. They're coming back the other way. And for some reason, Tice has the ball 25 feet away from the basket. He's open.

And it was one of those no, no, yes, but there's no yes. It's just a no, no brick. And the Pistons win. But it feels like a team that relies so much on Jalen and on Tatum. And they're so desperate for anybody else to come in. So the other night, Semmy plays well.

The one time all year he's played well against Toronto. Gives them 24 points. They win easily because it's like, wow, we have a third scorer. This is great. To me, it goes down to like, they don't have that heat check guy. They don't have that point guard who can create shots for other dudes. I thought it was going to be Pritchard. Then he got hurt.

And it's just been like one stumble after the other. And that's why I don't want to completely panic yet. But I also really don't like the roster the way it is. That's fair, right? I think that's fair in terms of the roster. I feel like with Boston, it's inevitable they're going to make a move. I'd honestly be shocked based off every conversation I've had in recent weeks that I'd be shocked if they don't make a move before the March 25th deadline.

If they don't make a move, my dad's going to flip out. My dad is DEFCON 2. How high does DEFCON go? It goes 5 to 1, right? Something like that. He should be at the max if they don't make a move. He sent me a furious Danny text on Friday night. He was just like, he's got to go. It was one of those.

He doesn't have to go. But he's super, he's just like Thompson, terrible. Jeff Teague, terrible. We could have had McDermott and Turner for the Hayward trade. They didn't want it. I'd much rather have those two guys than this amorphous trade exception where we might not be able to get anybody. Sadiq Bae Friday night is just killing them.

The guy they passed up when they took Neesmith, who's like barely played, and he's just going down the line. The Rozier Kemba thing is a disaster too, where it's like, Oh, cool. We flipped Rozier and the Hornets. They're paying them way too much money. Again,

come back. Everyone would rather have Rozier right now. I mean, it's, it's a comedy of errors. KFC. Yeah, for sure.

And some of it is a victim of circumstance for Boston. It's like you have Isaiah Thomas. He gets hurt. You get Kyrie Irving. He wants to leave. You get Kemba Walker. He falls apart apart don't forget hayward hayward of course and it's not all like the fault of the front office or the coaching

staff for that matter it's just a big mix of errors some mistakes and just some unfortunate things that happen in the past and for the celtics right now if you you know take a step back from the fact they're underwhelming that they're're 500 right now, they still do have that traded player exception. You're right. Maybe passing a Miles Turner and Doug McDermott will end up being a mistake. That's very possible. That could end up being a pivotal mistake by the Celtics. However, I do think that traded player exception gives them so many options around the league in terms of what they can target and how much they would have to give up to do it i mean you could go for a nicole avusevich from orlando you could target a guy like a like a thaddeus young or a harrison barnes you could go after somebody who isn't

readily available but makes sense for your roster like a larry nance jr from cleveland who you know i love i was on with you and riscilla before the season. I love Larry Nance. He's versatile. He can shoot threes. He's a smart passer. I mean, I'm telling you, as soon as he's on a contending team, people are going to fall in love with Larry Nance.

But there's a lot of players that make sense for the roster. It's just for Boston, I do wonder what does make most sense. I mean, do you feel like the Celtics are in a position right now where they should go hard for like a Vucevic type of player to help round out this roster,

give them a better big man. Vucevic is like arguably an all-star this year for Orlando. He's having the best season of his career. Or do you feel like they are in a position now where they should, you know, maybe go for a move around the edges, you know, take it easy,

head into the summer, holding the traded player exception and give yourself maximum amount of flexibility. Stop. They can't hold the exception. They have to use it. And this isn't a panic thing. I just don't think the East is that good. And I do think if they get one player here that they can really rely on in a real way. And then the second piece of that would be, can Kemba ever go back to being Kemba, which we could talk about after this. I went through all the, all the salaries, their salary cap exceptions, 28 and a half. The Rosen's 27.7, but I don't think San Antonio trades him. He's playing too well.

And like right now, as we're taping this, they're tied with the Hornets, but that you mentioned before we went on the Spurs are fun this year. I don't know if they do stuff unless they're getting some awesome tradeback. Otto Porter's 27 and a half. That's not going to make a difference. Vucevic, I'll come back to. Aldridge is too old on this. The Spurs would give him away at this point. The Kings are claiming they're not going to trade Harrison Barnes,

and they're kind of a fringe playoff playing team. I think he's important for them for the culture. I think they have a weird locker room just in general. I don't see them trading him. Aaron Gorder, Evan 48. Both those guys are going to be available, but I don't think they fix what the Celtics need. To me, it's two guys. Vucevic who's 26 would be the home run.

I think Thad Young would really help this team because, and you watch them a lot too. Day in, day out, I don't know who I can count on from the swing spots other than Tatum and Brown. And when these guys come out of the game, like today, there was one point I looked up semi-ocial and knee Smith had played 42 minutes combined today against the wizards and they had zero field goals. This is 42 minutes. We had a game the other day where

Grant Williams and Pritchard played like 45 minutes combined. They had like, you know, a combined four points. They need anybody who's just like, if I'm, if I play 25 minutes, I'm going to score 12 points and I'm going to do this. And you watch that young and the bulls, like he can post up a little bit. He can make an open three. He's a vet. He knows where to go and what to do. He's not going to completely disappear for a week.

So he would be my, he would be my small one, but I would go all in on Vucevic. I really would. I think it solves a lot of problems for both teams because they can absorb his whole exception,

give him back, you know, Time Lord, they can give him Langford. They, I would even, I love Pritchard, but I would put Pritchard

in the trade if they had to. Um, Neesmith and a bunch of picks. And just if they had Vucevic with the way Brown and Tatum are playing, that's a really good offensive team. All of a sudden, it's a really good offensive team, but I'm still not sure it's good enough.

And I worry that with whatever else he gave up in the form of young players or draft picks, you might just be setting yourself back for the chance of the actual next star who could become available, which is in all likelihood, Bradley Beal. I mean, we'll see what happens there. But do you honestly think they have enough to get Bradley Beal? They don't have that kind of trophy piece. We'll see. I mean, they do have all of their first round draft picks at the moment in the future.

They do have those aforementioned young players you mentioned. For Boston, is there a guarantee they would be able to offer the most for him? No, I don't think there is but i do think boston should try to maintain positioning for that guy that actually pushes them forward with vucevic he helps no doubt about it but i want to offer one other name that you didn't mention bill and that's okay an old friend al horford and one of my buddies what will hold stay with me one of my buddies One of my buddies brought up Horford for this reason, not necessarily as somebody to help. Like he is better than Daniel Tice right now,

but he extends the usage of the traded player exception for this reason, $27 million deal. So you can absorb him. And then next year, 27 million for the 2021, 22 season. And then the following season, he's guaranteed for only $14.5 million. So as soon as this coming season, Horford would become a piece that could be used essentially as salary filler, as an expiring contract. But he doesn't help them compete for the East this year, in my opinion. He doesn't help you compete for the East this year.

So you're saying he's a stopover to save him for next year so you're throwing away this year if you do that trade sure yeah i mean you could still also trade for a thaddeus young you could give up like tristan thompson as a salary filler with other draft picks for him i mean he doesn't prevent you from doing one of those other moves that you're you're talking about but for the exception, it's just an idea that a friend brought to me that I kind of am into. If there's not a clear winning deal for you that's out there, Horford does make some sense because he helps a little bit. He's better than Tice, better than your other bigs right now, can shoot threes for you, do all the things Al Horford's long done. But he does extend the life of that exception past late November 2021 later this year.

Part of the problem is they have a bunch of guys that I like or don't mind individually, but on this team, they don't seem to work. Like Thompson is somebody I was really high on. And my dad reminds me every call with text I have, I know you like them, but, and just kills them. But is this, is this the kind of team Tristan Thompson should be on like offensively, unless he has some sort of guard or swing man guy who he's setting a pick for and rolling to the basket with his hands up, he's pretty useless on offense.

And then defensively, Stevens just doesn't seem like he trusts him, especially in the last five minutes. And he's playing Tice a lot. He's playing Grant Williams a lot. Those guys are foul machines. Over and over again in crunch time, those guys will have a huge foul at the worst possible moment because they can't help themselves.

So that's why if I had to tinker, I would do the Thaddeus Young because I do think he gives them 22 to 24 minutes a game that right now is just a D- for the team. Whoever you put in, Semmy Ogilvy, whether you're going small with a guard, whatever, Javante Green, all these dudes,

like they're all, it's a D, D plus, D minus, depending who you're looking at. So I still like the Vooch thing because I don't know who else could trade for him in a way that makes sense for Orlando because the benefit for the Celtics

is all right, fine. Here's $9 million worth of guys. We'll save you 17 million this year and we'll give you some picks and usually, and your reset buddy, you suck anyway. If you're Orlando, you have a chance to get the number one pick. Potentially you have to get him off the team because everyone else is hurt or whatever. He is their team pretty much right now. I mean

they run everything through him in the half court he gets a ton of touches for that roster so if Orlando did want to bottom out trading Vucevic is the no-brainer and he could help I mean he's a really good player he's having a career season shooting threes he's a good passer he can run spaces the floor which is he's spaces he can run dribble handoffs through him like you can with Thaddeus Young you know Thaddeus Young this year with chicago i love the way billy donovan's using him there more as a small ball five you're seeing some playmaking from him around the elbows so either of those guys make a lot of sense for helping the roster this season but that doesn't all that doesn't necessarily prevent you from making another move one question though when it comes to like salaries to use in a deal

you've long been someone who's wanted to trade Marcus Smart. Do you feel like... Hold on, hold on. Why are you pinning that on me? You've been open to it, Bill. I love Marcus Smart. You've been open. You love him, but he's been somebody you've been open to trading.

If I felt like I could get back an incredible piece, I think it has to be discussed, like with the Warriors this year. If there was a chance to go 14 and Smart for the two, I think we have to discuss it if I have a chance to be discussed like with the Warriors this year. Like if there was a chance to go 14 and smart for the two, I think we have to discuss it. If I have a chance to get Wiseman. At this point though, do you feel like with smart being out, the heartbeat is missing?

Cause I feel like that's like Marcus smarts presence on the court for all the negatives with like taking too many jumpers. I feel like there's an energy with the team on the court. That's just missing. Like it can't be measured, but smart just makes that type of intangible impact where I don't know if they could trade him, even in one of those deals, just because of that

it factor he provides. It's at that point with him, which is weird to say with the negatives, but it's the way I'm feeling when I watch the Celtics right now. And that combined, that's why this isn't bleak, because they have moves. They have some young guys that if you're Orlando or whoever,

you're going to at least be intrigued by their worth flyers. Smart has real value. The exception allows them to do a couple of things. The question for me, well, first of all, when smart comes back, he'll be like, I've solved your third scorer problem. Here I am. And the answer is like, I'm not sure you've solved it. Calm down, Marcus.

Please don't take that shot with 27 seconds left for the game of the line. The question for me, Kemba, Smart, Tatum, Brown, and let's say Tice or Thompson. Is that a crunch time five I can trust if I'm playing Philly or Milwaukee or Brooklyn? And my answer is no, because I still don't think I have enough offense unless Kemba can miraculously get it back. And let me tell you something. I've been watching this dude for two years.

He doesn't look healthy. He has it some days. Then there's other... Look at his game log this year. He'll have a one for 12. He'll have a three for 17. Like, these are alarming games. And then he'll have a one for 12. He'll have a three for 17. Like these are alarming games. And then he'll have a game like today against Washington who sucks

defensively. And it's like, all right, here comes Kemba. He's back. But when you watch him against a team like Utah, he's just not the same guy. And they,

and they know exactly how to defend them. And he, and he's taking these contested shots that you don't feel like are going in. He doesn't have the same explosiveness around the rim yet. Do you think it comes back? I don't feel good about it. I mean, all indications have been the past year, ever since that injury happened in last

January, last February around all-star weekend has just been like, Oh, is he going to get back to being the same guy? He wasn't after a time off with the hiatus, get into the bubble. He wasn't after more time off from the end of the bubble to the start of the season. He went, he wasn't back mid season when he came back. Like, when is it going to happen? I don't know. We've seen these smaller athletic point guards that are very reliant on speed and shiftiness

and explosiveness around the rim. Just fall off a cliff. Is that happening right now? We won't know until the passage of time occurs. But it doesn't look good in the moment. It's scary to watch because just a couple years ago, last year, Bill, he was like a no-brainer all-star. A no-brainer.

He was an essential scorer, especially in the last five minutes. You make a key point. The margin of error with little guys is so much, so much wider and bigger than it is. Like if he was like, I don't know, Blake Griffin, although Blake Griffin now his career is,

he basically looks like 2000 Larry Johnson, but you can still, if you're big and you have size and you can cheat around in games when you're a little guy, if you know, all of a sudden you've lost a little bit of explosiveness. Now that completely changes what you can do in the room on the rim. And then the three pointer thing, like he can still make wide open threes, but like the, you know, that

classic Kemba move he has, that's a little like the Chris Paul, Chris Paul move where he kind of drives hard, right. Does the step back over the dude. He's only made that a couple of times the last four or five weeks. And that's where he's been more than anything. I listen if, if people, and I know they're going to be torching Danny tomorrow and the Celtics and why didn't they do this?

Why didn't do they that? Um, they have had really bad luck. That's the defense. It's the Hayward thing. The way that played out from start to finish was just couldn't have gone worse. And then they turn him Rozier and Akemba. And that's honestly couldn't have gone worse. And then they turn him Rosier and

Akemba and that's honestly couldn't have gone worse except for the first couple of months. And you know, like if the Clippers signed Paul George and he was immediately hurt after three months, they wouldn't be the Clippers. So I think you have to factor that in. I guess the frustrating thing for me with them is they've had chances to jump up in drafts for guys they liked. And they just didn't. Halliburton was sitting there. Halliburton would have just an enormous impact on this team. And I feel like they could have moved up four spots to get him.

And sometimes you got to overpay 130 cents on the dollar. He wanted to do it, Justice Winslow, a few years ago. He's going to give up four first round picks for Justice Winslow. Sometimes you got to make a move if you really like somebody. And I just feel like over and over again, they're waiting for the picks to be Brooklyn again. It didn't happen with Sacramento Memphis. They're waiting for guys to follow them. Guess what guys don't usually fall. So, uh, I I'm torn because I do feel like they need to do something. I'm not a hundred percent sure. I trust them to do the right thing

here. They still have Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. And ultimately I feel like they're still if you put them right, if you're ranking future the futures of all 30 teams in the NBA Boston is still near the top because of those two guys alone. But isn't that the frustrating thing about this?

You have those two guys that it's so easy to build around two interchangeable awesome swing guys. They're 13 and 13. It's like impossible. And that's why there needs to be urgency here because of those two guys. Look at some point, they're going to be the two players people are talking about is like, can you poach them from Boston?

What are you going to do to get Tatum out of Boston? What are you going to do to get Brown out of Boston? Unless they get it fixed this season or next season. Like there has to be urgency over the next year to get it right. Because those guys deals are going to be up before we know it. I mean, it's a couple of years down the road. Tatum's deal just kicked in, but that time will be here before we know it. And so for an age in that front office, they have to be proactive with getting it right here around those two guys because they're that good and they deserve to have that

roster around them no matter what it takes. Yeah, I mean that to me would have been impossible six months ago. Last point and then we'll move on to the all-star stuff. Those guys have played really hard this year. They really go all out on both ends. They do

not get calls and I don't mean that in the Tommy Heinsohn way, but they just, certain guys just don't get respect from refs. And they, this has been a recurring theme the whole year of these guys just don't get calls and they're trying to go to the hoop. And I, they've, they've taken a pretty big pounding this year. And the, this weekend was the first time I started to worry about like, you know, are these guys willing to do what it takes game to game with the amount of, you know, load that they have on this team where if they don't get to 50 points combined,

this team really can't compete against anybody that's playing well. You have to take that burden off them. And that's why I think Vucevic is the guy. I think he's a really good player. I like the idea of him, Kemba, smart Tatum and Brown like the idea of him, Kemba, Smart, Tatum, and Brown at the end of games. I think that would be really hard to defend if Kemba was playing

well. It would be hard to defend. What does it do to your defense, though? Vucevic is not a good defender. He's not a great defender. He'd be in trouble. He's average. He's average. I do wonder if that's where maybe it ends up killing you in the end in postseason when Embiid is just shredding Vucevic or Giannis is shredding Vucevic.

And then you might be feeling differently at that point. And that's why a big part of me wonders, Bill, if the real move is the thing that's going to piss everybody off, including you and your dad and every Celtics fan. And that's just playing it a little safe. Ride it out because I still think Bradley Beal is the big whale that Boston and all other teams should be thinking about. I don't know if Boston would have enough but I do think this

with Bradley Beal if he does take this into the offseason he will only have one year left on his deal he will suddenly gain leverage with where he wants to go and if he wants to go to Boston and play with the person he's known since he was a teenager, since Tatum was a little kid, he will have power to push his way there in the offseason. So no guarantees, but ultimately, I still think Boston should be doing what they can

to get Bradley Beal. He's the guy that solves issues. Do you think he'll grow a beard and gain 20 pounds and tank the season until he gets traded and then half-heartedly apologize to Rachel Nichols a month later and it'll all be fine? We'd be remiss if we didn't mention Brad Stevens really quick. The president, unassailable record over the years. He's consistently gotten teams to overachieve. Two years ago, he didn't. I don't think he's done a good job this year. There's little

stuff that... He knows more about basketball than me. I'm not going to pretend he does. He doesn't. He does. He does. I said that correctly. They're playing the Pistons on Friday night. I'm sitting there at home and I'm just like, why aren't they in a fucking zone?

Detroit stinks. Why are we playing man to man? And they're doing this weird like Dirk Nowitzki post-up thing with Jeremy Grant and trying to clear a runway for right. And I'm like, just play zone. These guys suck. The lack of kind of ingenuity in some of these games compared to what you see from Nurse, Spstra, Frank Vogel, um, where I just feel like those guys really know their team and what to do and his reliance on how many times do we see Shemmy Ojale?

Like how many times, how many years we're in year five? It's not happening. It's never going to happen. Grant Williams. He's, he's always going to be three inches too short. He can't play at the end of games. So I, that part's been frustrating for me. I can't believe I'm criticizing the president.

It sounds like you're making a personnel complaint more than anything else, you know, about the pieces he has and what he has to choose from, you know, to put out there on the court. Do you think he's gotten creative? I swear to God, I was in a conversation the other day about I would fucking play taco. He freaks out other teams.

He comes in, teams get completely discombobulated. It's like running the Wildcat. I would throw him out there over some of the shit we've seen. All right, enough Celtics talk. Taco's the solution. Taco. Taco is for the next game. We're going to take a break.

Come back, All-Star. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring,

he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health, suicide prevention,

and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. Take back your free time with PC Express Online grocery delivery and pickup. Score in-store promos, PC Optimum points, and more free time. And still get groceries. Shop now at pcexpress.ca. So, you have a vote, right?

I do have a vote. We're only allowed to pick the starters. And there's an interesting starter conversation in the East because Giannis, Durant, and Embiid have to be three. I think Jalen Brown has to be one of the guards. I think he deserves it. He is a guard. He's been an excellent, excellent two-way player on a team that was a playoff team

until this weekend when everything fell apart. Who is the other guard for you? Because here are your candidates. You can have Bradley Beal scoring 33 a game on a horrendous Wizards team. You can have Trey Young, 27 and nine, on a Hawks team that every time I watch it, I end up hate watching them

because I just hate every, I just hate everything they're about. Um, basketball, basketball, hate, not really. Um, you can have Kyrie Irving who just disappeared for two weeks. He missed nine games. Um, you could have Zach Levine who's on, um, on a team that really ultimately doesn't matter. And I think he's the ultimate good stats, bad team guy, or you can have Ben Simmons. Who's the best defender in the league. Who is your starting guard in the East next to Jalen Brown? Is Jalen Brown one of your starting guards? No, he's not. Oh, okay. Who are your starting guards? Just miss narrowly. I have Bradley Bale and James Harden as my two starting guards,

and neither of them were locks. Embiid, Durant, Giannis, those three in the frontcourt, easy choice. Doesn't take much thought. That's simple. But all those guards are tough, really, really tough. And ultimately, I went with Bradley Beal. I don't feel like 33 points is anything to balk at. It's amazing what he's done done and he's been a better passer

than the stats actually indicate uh i looked up for an article i put up monday on the ringer uh that of players that have logged at least 90 assist the season there's 60 players he ranks 55th of those 60 in terms of what his passes have in terms of how his potential assists have actually turned into assists so teammates are not converting his passes he's been a good playmaker for that wizards team and i know some people will say oh he's sulking on the sideline hold that against him i don't hold it against him and then i don't hold that against him i hold that joe i hold joe house's theory that bradley bale in the last two minutes of a game his shot never goes in that's joe house no advanced

metrics at all just that's wizard's fan joe house he's like it just doesn't go in in the last two minutes of a game, his shot never goes in. That's Joe House. No advanced metrics at all. Just that's Wizards fan Joe House. He's like, it just doesn't go in in the last two minutes. But there you go. So you don't have him next to Jalen then? I do. And here's why. Because I can't reward James Harden for what he did this season.

I just can't. I am a guy that has not changed over the years. There's very few things I despise in basketball. One of them is the guy who gets everything he wants for a franchise and then quits on them anyway, and then magically turns the button back on once the trade happens. I'm not rewarding him with that. He's 24-7-11.

I know he's one of the best players in the league, but I'm sorry, you're not getting my starting vote. You're just not. I'd much rather give it to Beal and Jalen. Yeah, but it's the all-star game. It's not the all-good-guy team. He's still in. He's going to make it. Yeah, he's going to make it.

You just don't have him as a starter. I don't have him as a starter. I think that's fair, but I still have him as a starter, and I'm not holding against what happened in Houston against him. He's been amazing. He's been brilliant with Brooklyn. So when you say you're not holding it against him, you're not holding against him.

The fact that he showed up late, that he completely submarine the team, that all of his teammates hated him within a couple of weeks that he was overweight and lethargic and then was mailing it in by the end. You're holding none of that. Still producing, still producing at an elite level. And maybe I should hold it against him.

And maybe that's a mistake on my part, but ultimately the production, it doesn't lie with him. He's been amazing with Brooklyn, taking control of that offense, averaging 20 more touches than Kyrie Irving, 40 more than Kevin Durant. He is running the show for that amazing offense that we're watching.

And I know Brooklyn stinks defensively, but when they want to turn it up, Harden also has been pretty solid in those moments defensively. We saw the possession, the post-up against Kawhi Leonard a couple weeks back, and the Nets went over the Clippers. He's had some good moments for them. I have him as a starter. Now you sound like he's paying you.

I have him as a starter. He does not have good moments defensively. He'll have a play where you're like, oh, James tried that play. He and he does not have good moments defensively he'll have a play where you're like oh James tried that play good moments I have Harden as a starter but I don't fault you for having Jalen Brown for me it was Beal

then Harden and then Brown if I'm ordering those guards but when it comes to one quick question though I have this on my article up on the ringer tomorrow on Monday like what are we still doing positions for with with like jaylen brown listed as a guard i don't understand what makes brown a guard tatum a forward jimmy butler a forward even though he's averaging nearly seven assists hayward's a forward even though he has almost identical usage as jaylen brown who's a guard tobias harris is a forward even though he has almost identical usage as Jalen Brown, who's a guard. Tobias Harris is a forward, even though he, again, utilized very similarly to Jalen Brown.

I just wish at this point we could go positionless. That's the way I'm feeling about it. You're such a millennial. You love tradition, Bill. No, it's just like... They removed the center a couple years back. Here's why I think he can shoehorn in as a guard. To me, it's like, could he guard other teams' guards?

Could he guard James Harden? You know, I look at Tobias Harris. Tobias Harris, to me, is a forward. I don't feel like he could guard you know, Manny Ginobili. But then what about Ben Simmons? Simmons is listed as a guard. Luka's listed as a guard, even though But Ben Simmons can guard everyone on the floor.

To me, he's the ultimate position of this guy. He is, ultimately, yes. And Luka is a guy who defends wings and forwards, not so much smaller, quicker players. I'm with you. The positions, we could probably do away with at this point. But to me, it's more like perimeter

and then paint. We could just go perimeter paint, and it would probably make more sense at this point, right? i think so but and that's sort of what they're going with here and there's some issues like it's not a big deal i don't think it necessarily changed who i selected from my team this year definitely not with the starters but i don't know it's just i think there's going to be years where this really pops up and you feel it uh with ballots and the players that are selected the players that end up being snubs. Well, don't you feel like, and granted this, this is a eye test, no way to actually prove this or stick to it, but you just kind of have to feel

it. I, when I pick my starters and I do this with the all NBA too, at the end of the year, I want the five guys to actually make sense as a, as a five man team. Right. So I have for the East, Giannis, Durant, Embiid, Hart, and Jalen. I do feel like those five guys would play together really well. You know, we saw in the early two thousands in the West and sometimes people would get voted in and it would be like Shaq, KG, and Duncan. And then, you know, Kobe and some other shooting guard. And it was like, these are five, this five person team does not make

sense. You know, and Duncan and KG would be like kind of colliding and that's why I feel like Jalen, I don't feel like Tatum's a guard weirdly, but I do feel like Jalen's more of a guard because I've seen him defend all these other guards. All right, so we'll disagree on Harden.

Other than that, that was pretty easy. So you go to the bench. We both have Tatum in there, right? Tatum. We both have Chris Middleton in there because he's been really good. I'm assuming you have Bam Adebayo in there? I do have Bam as the third forward. He's kind of stealth 29 and 20 points,

nine rebounds, five assists this year. He's been really, really good. I mean, Miami's underwhelmed. And he's in that same group as the Julius Randles, Vucevic, Sabonis, a number of bigs. Jeremy Grant, too, for that matter. But Bam, I just think has been the best over all of them. Yeah, he's the best two-way player.

I also feel like his team hasn't played that well. They've missed Butler, but the shooters haven't. That's a team that if the shooters got hot, I could see him ripping off some 22, 13, or 11s type stuff. Oh, yeah.

And his shot's gotten better, too, from the perimeter. He's improved as a player since the bubble. So we have... Now it starts to get dicey. I'm going to make a case for Simmons really quick. Kyle, you might have to tell the video crew,

get the fucking social breakout ready. Ben Simmons averaging 14-8-8 this year. 56% field goal. Really frustrating player offensively to watch. There are games when you're just like, that guy doesn't look like he knows where to go. With that said, him guarding LeBron,

as well as I've seen, and LeBron had a good game. He had 34 points. But what Ben Simmons was doing physically, hanging with LeBron and really making him work in a way that really in the last, I don't know, seven, eight years, it's only been Kawhi and Durant that you've seen really make him work like that on that end. And then to watch him a couple of days ago, defend Dame Lillard, like he did in that Portland game. And you, and you're thinking like, this is the best possible person to guard Dame Lillard like he did in that Portland game. And you,

and you're thinking like, this is the best possible person to guard Dame Lillard. How is this possible? I don't know. I didn't even really fully understand. He's picking him up basically at mid court. And it seems like he's going to force like a backcourt violation or a steal.

He's got length. Dame was like, what? Six for 22 or whatever. He completely took him out of the game. And I was like, not only is this 22 or whatever? He completely took him out of the game. And I was like, not only is this the best defensive guy in the league, what are the list of guys who could guard LeBron and Dame in the span of three weeks at the highest possible level in the league?

It's basically like, I was texting with a friend about it. If you're talking 6'9 and above, that rules out Kawhi, that rules out all those dudes. It's basically like KG. It's Bill Russell. Ben Simmons is 6'10. After I saw that, I'm like, Ben Simmons is on the all-star team.

So that's my case. I have him on there too. And with Ben Simmons, you mentioned the offense. The argument against Ben Simmons is simple. He takes only 9.8 shots per game. He's possessing the ball a little bit less than he ever has before. He's not scoring as much.

He's screening off ball. I mean, sometimes it feels like Ben Simmons is lost in the shuffle. I think it's actually a nice thing to see him screening more often. He's helping free open teammates offensively, but defensively, the level he's reached, bill, it blows me away. Like watching this guy at LSU when he didn't care when he was lazy and people question his character and his work ethic and love for the game. And to see the player that he has turned into where there's a legitimate

argument that he could be a defensive player of the year. This is for me. I'll tell you right now, 30 games, 28 games in he's, he's my number one right now. I have Rudy go bear right now, but Ben, 28 games in, he's my number one right now. I have Rudy Gobert right now, but Ben Simmons would be in my top three at the moment.

He's just been a remarkable defensive player with his versatility. There's a stat on bballindex.com that measures matchup versatility. And last time I checked, he ranked, I think, third in the NBA in terms of defending across positions. And never mind the fact he's taking on those opposing stars. He's the most versatile defender in the league, if not the best defender in the league. defending across positions and nevermind the fact he's taking on those opposing stars. He's the most versatile defender in the league, if not the best defender in the league,

I'd say Rudy Gobert is right now, but Simmons is remarkable. And you mentioned the offense. One stat I looked at before we got on today, Bill was, you know, I saw some numbers about how the Sixers shoot threes when he's on the court versus off the court, specifically with his own passes. When he passes the ball to his teammates and they shoot a three, they're hitting 42% of those threes. Everybody else on the team off of teammate passes is shooting 33% on threes. Is that small sample size?

Maybe, but I think more likely than anything else, it's somebody who, it's evidence of his ability to create quality shots for his teammates it's something he's always been able to do the statistics have always sort of correlated with that number but he is one of the big reasons why the sixers are better at generating those open shots this season so even though yeah it doesn't necessarily pop up in the numbers he's still making an offensive impact and quite frankly as somebody who's criticized his lack of his lack of a jumper since before pop up in the numbers. He's still making an offensive impact. And quite frankly, as somebody who's criticized his lack of a jumper since before he was in the NBA,

right now we are seeing the best version of Ben Simmons that we have ever seen right now. And the other thing with him, I just like having him out there in the last five minutes of a game. And they're fortunate now because I think the Seth Curry trade has given them kind of this wild card guy

who can actually create a shot or come off a pick or whatever. But ultimately, Embiid's averaging 30 a game. He's one of the best players in the league. He's playing great game after game after game. And Harris is a really good second scorer. You have that lineup they have that's doing really well with advanced metrics where they play Embiid Harris, Curry, Green, Simmons. They don't need Simmons's offense with that lineup. What they need is all the other

stuff he does. His ability to be like, who's the best player on the other team? I got him. The weird last minute of the game stuff, he has this surreal ability to grab the biggest free throw rebound, to get his hand on a pass when you need it the most. I think that stuff really matters to me. And I really feel like the stats are great. I looked at all of them when I was trying to figure out who I wanted to pick. There's some really good ones now. I like the Raptor stat.

It's good. It's, it's in the ballpark for where it needs to be. But there's, there's something different with this Simmons thing that if you're not watching the games, there's an extra element to him that nobody else has. And to me, it's like Kawhi Leonard, Scottie Pippen, Simmons.

I feel like he's gotten onto that level now as a perimeter guy. I really feel like he's that good. I was absolutely blown away by the Dame thing. I thought it was my favorite moment of the season. I couldn't believe it. I don't think Dame could believe it. I think Dame was like, what the fuck is going on?

This guy's 6'10". I can't go by him. And then if I get an edge on him, he can still reach up and block my shot. So anyway, here's my other point. Kyle, I hope the camera's still going. I'm sorry if I'm trading James Harden. I want the known quantity. Give me Ben Simmons over all these picks that I don't know I'm trading James Harden. I want the known quantity. Give me Ben Simmons

over all these picks that I don't know what they're going to be. Give me the guy who can actually be a guy who can be one of the best two guys on the title team because I think he can. Right now, he looks like it. Right now, he does look like it. Would you rather have all the picks they got or Ben Simmons and Thibault and

maybe a first? I still think all those picks set you up to do whatever you want in the near future in terms of getting that next star player. Ben Simmons, the flaw with the lack of a jumper is still something we could see pop up in the postseason. And we're going to see how teams defend and adjust to the Sixers at that point. But I do think Ben Simmons has made up for that deficiency with everything else. I mean, he's doing the little things this year, Bill, you mentioned all the defense, like the screening off ball. Sometimes if he, in the past, when he was hovering off ball, you'd see him just

stand in the dunker spot and not do anything. It was like four on five at times, but now he's setting like little rub screens to open up space for Tyree Tyrese Maxey to catch the ball and shoot for three or attack a closeout or for Seth Curry to get open he's doing those little things that he didn't do in the past that help make up when a shooter I mean when he's when you have an ineffective shooter on the court and Ben Simmons deserves a heck of a lot of credit for doing that because that that takes commitment and a will to do all those little things and I think in the past he didn't see himself as that player I know a couple years, he had that quote with Jackie McMullen, where he said, I'm paraphrasing here, but I see myself as a point guard. I see myself as a guy

bringing the ball up the floor. I feel like he's realized for him to be the best player that he can be without a jump shot. It's to do all the little stuff. It's everything else. And he's fully embraced that. And I hope he gets rewarded with an all-star spot because he's totally deserving to me. Me too. And I was surprised other people were leaving him off. It's funny. You know, my daughter plays high forward in soccer and there's a lot that goes in that position. It's really complicated, but you know, once you've kind of figured out everything and you get the landscape of it, one of the things, and it's a skill in its own right is just kind of being up to stuff to be like a split second ahead to anticipate when things are going to happen to just keep your legs moving and just be ready to pounce. You never know when a ball is going to

get deflected, whatever. And you almost have to train yourself when you're playing, you know, to, to, to just be kind of on the prowl almost. And we always used to compare it to my old dog, Rufus, who's died six years ago. But anytime somebody was making food, Rufus was in the kitchen and he's looking around and he's just waiting. Like they might look away. I'm going to jump on it. I'm going to jump on it. I'm going to jump it up.

I'm going to grab the burger or somebody might drop something. I'm on it. He was just on the prowl. And we would always talk with soccer, like be like Rufus, be like Rufus, be on the prowl. And I think with, with, with Simmons, it reminds me of those conversations with my daughter

about like, he's just, he's figured out, like I'm probably not going to have an impact offensively, but I'm up to stuff. My legs are moving. I'm thinking about, I'm doing, I'm ready to crash the board. I'm ready to make a back cut. I'm going to set a screen. Anything. I'm just going to do stuff. Last year, I didn't feel like he was like that. I don't feel like he knew where he fit in. And this year I feel like he knows. And maybe this is what he is. Maybe he's a guy who's like 14, 10, and 9. But defensively,

he's going to be the best player in the league. He should still switch shooting hands, though. We'll take a break on that note. We'll be back in one second. At Pennzoil, we have one job.

Pioneering a motor oil so advanced, you don't have to think about your motor oil. Instead, you can think about how your engine sounds, how your stomach feels as the RPMs build, how your wheels hug the curves, and how, with the Pennzoil Platinum Up to 15-Year 800,000 Kilometer Protection Guarantee, your adventures will be many. Pennzoil. Long may we drive.

Available at your local Canadian tire. Enrollment required. Keep your receipts. Other conditions apply. See Pennzoil.ca slash warranty for full details. What's the feeling of fall? It's finally catching the sunrise. And not because you woke up early. No, you woke up nice and late.

And you know what? The sun waited. Then you went and got what you love from Starbucks. The new pecan crunch oat latte and new baked apple croissant. And enjoyed that warm apple filling and those nutty flavors with rich brown buttery notes

while the sun rose just for you. That's the feeling of fall and it's only at Starbucks. All right. Two spots left in the East. There's a lot of good players in the East this year. I do feel like the East has swung the talent battle between Harded Durant and Kyrie Stang.

It just feels like they have more talent than the West does. I had 25 players that I considered in the East for 12 spots. So who do you have in your last two? Give them to me. So in my last two, I have Zach Levine from the bulls. And then you're just stuck her for two sets. Really?

And you're going to love this other one. Five years. I just can't break you. And you're going to love this one too. Kyrie Irving. Oh my God. Come on, Bill.

50, 40, 90 averaging 28.6. I know he took a little bit of time off bill i know he did i know he did so vooch is out for you he's out right now unfortunately okay all right make the kairi case let's hear it 50 40 90 averaging 28 points per game six assists having one of the most potent seasons of his entire career. It's like I said earlier, Bill, this is the all-star game. Gotta put the best players in, and Kyrie Irving is having one of the best seasons. He took a little time

away. He did his thing, but I can't keep Kyrie Irving off the team with the level that he's producing on the court. He's been really unbelievable. You're not going to believe this. You don't have Kyrie? Or do you? I actually had him.

Wow. Had him? No, I had him in one of the last two spots. For all the reasons you just said. To me, the penalty is you're not a starter. But ultimately, it's the all-star game. And every year, there's I don't know, 12 to 16 to 20 guys who

knows year to year that just it feels weird if they're not at the all-star game and kairi is on that list i you know i still don't know what happened where he left the team i don't know if he was he's never really talked about it um i don't know if maybe he was at least a little bit worried they were going to try to trade him. I don't know. He hasn't really opened up about it. But he came back and he's been awesome. Yeah, he's been unbelievable. And I think he also deserves credit for accepting the off-ball role.

I mean, he's given up the ball to James Harden, let him run the show. And that willingness to sacrifice perhaps individual numbers or just handling the ball and that willingness to sacrifice perhaps individual numbers or just handling the ball and feeling in control in control i think does deserve some praise considering the fact that everybody said well there's only one ball how are these guys going to coexist well it's no different than any other group of superstars we've seen it requires sacrifice and he has been willing to not handle the ball quite as much as he did before so you know credit to him for that but you know that time off that that'll hurt i'm sure in terms of some coaches like like you said

earlier the head coaches are the ones who determine the reserves not media or players or fans we just do the starters but i am going to be curious to see how head coaches handle that because there's so many guys like like we only mentioned Jeremy Grant and passing earlier. You can make arguments for Sabonis, Gordon Hayward, Julius Randall, Jeremy Grant, his 2011 dirt offense game is high post game that came out of nowhere. Oh man.

It's crazy to watch Grant right now. So I have Kyrie is 11. And then, uh, I couldn't put Trey on there, especially cause the team's not winning. That team has a lot of talent. And he's,

it's almost like when my dad always makes a joke about how in a, like in a movie, we were like, that guy was in a different movie than everybody else. I'm still not sure Trey's in the same movie that his teammates are in. There's, he's doing whatever he's doing. And sometimes it just seems like,

and I know he's getting assist numbers and stuff like that, but that team feels discombobulated to me for how much, how good their offense is. And then defensively, he's a nightmare. It's a weird, weird team. I had Trey young penciled into one of the last shot and last spots at one

point that removed him for Zach Levine, but with Trey putting up numbers and he deserves a little bit of blame. Like we're not seeing him excel off ball in the way you might've hoped when they signed Gallinari and Bogdanovich and Rondo and all these other guys who can handle the ball when they have Kevin Herter who can pass and create a little bit for you. But the thing is, is like that whole roster has been decimated by injury.

Bogdanovich has missed a lot of time. Gallinari has missed time. He has not looked as good since he returned. They have guys who can create a little bit, but aren't primary options for you, like Kevin Herter. They have guys who theoretically could be creators, but aren't right now, like Cam Reddish. They have guys who look pretty close to retirement.

I hate to say it, but like Rajon Rondo. He does not even look as good as he did last season with the Lakers. So, like, Trae Young has got to do it. I feel like they're a middling offense right now. Not, not in spite of him, but because of him, they have the weird car.

The Collins thing is weird. Cause he'll just have the, if you catch him on the right night, it looks like he's a top 20 guy. He's fun. And then there's other nights where you're like, I don't know how this guy, I can't see this guy on a really good team in June for the

finals. Um, my sixth guy, you're going to be a little surprised. So it's not Vucevic because I just feel like most, I know he's been good and I know he doesn't have teammates, but I just feel like any good player can put up 23 and whatever on a bad team, which is very similar to the Jeremy Grant thing. To me, it comes down to Hayward and Holiday. Ah, okay. Hayward's been really, really good and important for Charlotte,

who I think has been the league pass unexpected underrated MVP of the year. They just lost tonight. But he's just been the guy we were waiting to see in Boston. And I know if you're going to do stats against stats, he's not going to win, but there's a maturity to his game

and a confidence that was just not there in Boston. And then he's got a bunch of wild cards on his team, right? Like Roger had 41 points the other night. LaMelo, you never know. LaMelo could look incredible one night, not the next. Devontae Graham, who the hell knows what's going on with him.

Ma can come off the bench. There's just all this chaos, but he's kind of the center of it. He's a stabilizer for them. He's 21-5-5. You can go to him at the end of the games. And that team's a playoff team to me. So I was looking at either him. Um,

so bonus, I had locked in and I just feel like he's been too up and down. He slipped a little bit. So he slipped, right? But both, both him and Brogdon, their numbers have dipped quite a bit ever since the old Depot trade.

And obviously with Levert, you hope he'll be okay. Um, but with Levert not playing, not having that ball handler presence has hurt both of them. With Zach Levine, I feel like, you know, I think Hayward's a good pick. And I mean, I definitely...

No, I had one more. Let me give you the other one. Oh, you're on the wild card. Okay. Hayward or... Okay. Drew Holiday. Or Drew Holiday.

That's right. Okay. So I think I'm going to take Drew Holiday as my 12th because of the two-way stuff. You could feel his when they didn't have him the last two games, they just felt like a completely different team.

He does so many good things for them. Most important, at the end of these games, they're going to end up playing Brooklyn at some point. And he can actually, you know, defend Kyrie or Harden. He can take either of those guys.

There's just his versatility defensively. And I just have really enjoyed watching him play on a good team. So I'm probably leaning toward him. But I guess I have to make my pick now. So I'm going to pick Holiday slightly over Hayward. That's fair. I think either of those guys are very deserving. But, you know,

so I have Zach Levine as my 12th player right now, averaging 28, 5, and 5 with ludicrous scoring efficiency. He's somebody I've ripped on podcasts with Chris Vernon a lot over the years for his horrific defense

in the past and unwillingness to commit to playmaking. But, I mean, I got to give credit where it's due. I think he's at least tried on defense. He's still like a plus necessarily but he's a uh you know he's an average defender at this point and as a playmaker he's definitely shown a commitment to doing that he's

having the best passing season of his career in addition just being ridiculous scoring the ball for the bulls but you know i do i have him there in some ways, I feel thankful to not be the one actually deciding this as a head coach because there's a lot of high-level scorers this year. This season, there's 41 players averaging over 20 points per game, up from 35 last year, more than, I believe, in every season of NBA history. So you can find scoring right now in the NBA. And I wonder if maybe instead for like all-star, maybe it shouldn't be as much about scoring and you know, the, the dazzling players

is more about those little things. Like you mentioned with drew holiday, maybe we should be looking more for those guys that check a lot more boxes. Thanks for making my point. I'm just playing devil's advocate with myself here because you know, I have Levine there in that spot and he will be there when the article goes up tomorrow but you know there's a lot of high level scorers right now in the nba and maybe it's these other guys even like somebody like jeremy grant i feel bad not having him on my all-star team right now he even though detroit stinks they're one of the worst teams in the league grant is not the reason for that he's still been really good defensively as an individual defender just like he was in the past of Denver.

He's been solid passing the ball, obviously scoring like crazy for mid range. Like you mentioned earlier. Yeah. He checks more boxes. And I wonder if maybe those guys aren't, he doesn't pass my, he doesn't pass my,

this guy would seem fun to play with test. Not right now. Not with the way they're playing. He's just, if he has the ball over half court, it's going up. I mean, who else are they giving it to?

Not Blake Griffin. I mean, sad to say, I mean, poor Blake. I can't believe the Blake Griffin. Did you see he hasn't dunked in over a year? It's depressing.

I mean, like you mentioned in passing earlier, he's the type of guy that shows you can age well without athleticism. He actually did for a little while. He was awesome before that last major injury he had. Do you see him? It looks like he's on one leg now. I mean, he's literally limping now.

It's that one too many injuries that he had that just, I mean, it sucks to watch him. Well, there's hope because we said the same thing about Gronk, right? We were like, he's had one too many injuries. And now Gronk's the Super Bowl champ and the whole thing. All right. We're going to tackle the West. Let's do this. Let's do this one question, and then we can take a break.

Cool. Pick two starters for me between Curry, Dame, and Luka. I have Curry as a lock. 100%. No-brainer. He's having basically the equivalent to the 15-16 season in terms of production. Dude's incredible.

I originally had Damian Lillard as that second guard, but I'm, over the weekend, doing my research. I'm going to lean towards Luka. Scoring output between those two is pretty close to equal. Luka has been a more impactful defensive player than Dame, partially just because he's bigger, can make more of an impact, and he's just been a more impactful defensive player than Dame partially just because he's bigger can make more of an impact and he's just been a more dynamic playmaker as well

for the Mavericks and not like this season that the standings are so crunched and we're voting earlier than we normally do. Normally votes are due when over half the season is done. The season is due of like about 37% of season games have been completed scheduled games. Which stinks.

So yeah, it stinks. But also like the standings are so close together. I'm not really looking at if a team's a four seed versus a nine or right now. It's just the games are like there's two, three games separating them right now. Can you see that? I can see that. You got Luca? I had Luca. I see.

I had Luca and Curry. It's really close. You know what pushed over the top for me? His rebounding, which I think is... The rebounding, too. It's not just like you could look at it and be like, oh, he's 28-99. He gets good rebounds. He gets big rebounds in traffic late in games.

He doesn't pad his stats. He's not jumping in off free throws, trying to get the two extras so he can get the triple-double. But he's got more size than you think. He's not going for the Westbrook, you're saying? Yeah, going for the Westbrook. I haven't loved how he's played this year. I don't totally blame him because I think some people didn't realize the season was going to start as soon as it did,

and he's admitted that. His team's not very good. And I think out of anybody who got crushed by COVID, injuries, stuff like that, that team was in the top three. And I don't know if they had a lot of talent to begin with. You know, if you're talking about poor Zingas being 80 to 90% what he used to be, and then you go down the rest of the roster, it's pretty rough.

I'm going to salary cap league with my buddy, Chris Chen. And there's Mavs. Like, it's like, do we want Christian? Yeah. Do we want Dorian Finney-Smith?

He's only $4 million. Yeah, grab him. And then you have him. And it's like Dorian Finney-Smith played 35 minutes last night. He scored five points. We got to wave him. But their whole team is full of these guys. It's a little like the Celtics supporting cast

where you just don't know what you're getting night to night. And I do think they missed Seth Curry. I really wonder what Richard's saying, if this is just kind of who he is. I talked about this on a previous pod. He had a really hot two-month hot streak in Miami where he's like 21 a game. Other than that, this is who he is. He's between 13 and 15 a game.

He's not a lights-out three-point shooter. Has a tendency to do dumb stuff near the end of games, which, you know, he's a frustrating player. So I don't really know what their move is. And I feel bad for Luca cause this, you know, every year is a window and I don't feel like this team has a chance to compete for a title with the cast they have. Yeah. And I think a lot of that, you mentioned Josh Richardson, and he's not the same guy. You don't have guys shooting the ball as well as they did last season. Dorian and Finney Smith, his numbers are down.

It's down across the roster from three-point land for them. It still comes down to KP. We've seen some flashes from KP this past week against some not-so-good teams, but if KP's able to get back and string together some games like we saw over the last 20, 25 games before the hiatus, they have a chance to make a deep run if you have those two guys.

But can KP stay healthy? Can he sustain that? Can he maintain that level of production? That's been my question with him ever since the Knicks made that deal with Dallas. And I've seen little reason to believe he will. Yeah, there's that. And then there's the little nagging thing of how crucial Jalen Brunson is to this team,

which is just weird. Solid rotation player. They kind of really need him to do well in certain teams. They desperately need somebody to kind of give them what Seth Curry gave them last year. And also the fact that Kleber came back. They're like, Kleber's back! Love Kleber. It's Maxi Kleber. No, I like him too, but it's like, your season hasn't changed because

Maxi Kleber came back. Alright, so we have for the West starters, LeBron, Kawhi, Jokic, I assume you have, and then Luke and Curry. So we agree on those five. Alright, we'll take a break. We'll talk about the rest of the West. Alright, locks of the West. All right. Locks for the West. I'm sure we both have Dame.

I'm sure we both have Paul George, who's been really good this year. Anthony Davis I think gets in just for legacy, but he's left me a little cold this year. He's still a lock for me. He's a lock for me too. It's just a little cold. Yeah, the

offense isn't the same, but it's still one of the main reasons why the Lakers have the number one defense in basketball. Why even while their offense is sluggish this past week or so, they're still who have won every game is because of their defense and 80 is a heck of a lot to do with that. So same page there. Go bear.

Go bear. Yes. Okay. All right. I think he has to be in because that team do with that. So same page there. Go Bear? Go Bear, yes. Okay, all right. I think he has to be in. Because that team has been awesome. And whether they end up being the rabbit this season, I guess we'll find out. Because we have this team. There's a team every year that first 50 games,

they look awesome. And then you kind of look back and go, hey, remember when that team was awesome for the first 50 games? Go Bear looks awesome. Yeah, I wonder like with the COVID stuff last year and the Mitchell and it seemed like they were going to trade him. On the one hand, it's like, wow, he's really got a fire this year.

And then on the other hand, you look at his stats and they're exactly the same as they always are. But I just feel like this team has been together long enough that in a league where everybody switches teams, it's weirdly an advantage to just be like, yeah, we've had the same team for three years or two years. Like, hey, everybody's back.

Cool. They have a know-how with each other. And the fact that Conley's been so much better this season has kind of pushed it over the top. They're really fun to watch. They're a really good professional basketball team. It feels like every single night they have a passing highlight

or a defensive rotation that just makes you go, wow. This team is just connected on another level. The way they play on both ends. And it goes back to what we talked about with the Celtics, right? Where it doesn't feel like a cohesive team. It's a team that when they fall down by 12,

I'm not necessarily certain they're going to come back. And that Utah team is really locked in. They really believe they're good. And then at the end of these games, they can ratchet it up on defense. The Clarkson thing. I gotta be honest. I did not see the Clarkson. He's actually better than a heat check guy. Now he's my sixth man of the year right now. Yeah. I didn't think he would ever be this good. And I don't know. Was there any signs of this at any point in his career? I mean, he's shown flashes, but never like this.

Never like this. And I think it's really cool the way Quinn Snyder has utilized all those guards. You mentioned Mike Conley being back, and I'm sure we'll talk about him as a potential all-star, but Quinn Snyder is keeping two of those three guards on the court for eight out of 10 of every minute. 80% of the time, two of them are on the court. And that's very rare to have that level of creation on there. they don't have a they don't have a dame they don't have a harden they don't have that top 10 level shot creator on your team but they do have three

guys that you can rely on to create a shot for you in addition to like bug donovich and ingles on the team who can in a pinch too so i wonder if maybe the the collective of all those guys together can be enough in the postseason i think there's a chance there's a chance at least that they could be an upset team in the postseason over the lakers or clippers and even if they if they hold on to the one seed if the lakers and clippers fall into two and three in some order you don't have to face either of those teams until the western conference finals you don't have to get through both of them you just have to get through one of them. One seven game series for a chance to get to the finals.

Awesome point. Yeah. Right now they're 22 and five Lakers are 21 and six. I'm with you. That's a team that could actually get the one seed because they're a little like those mid nineties jazz teams, ironically, where they're a really good regular season team,

you know, in a weird season that the protocols, Paolo, you get, he wrote a really good regular season team. In a weird season that the protocols... Paolo Ighetti wrote a really good piece for us on The Ringer about how stressful it's been for the organizations. And I think the better your chemistry is, the better the familiarity is, it allows you to block out some of this other stuff, right? And Utah is the unexpected team for that. We knew like the Lakers would have an advantage because the way LeBron all the stuff from last year that they, there would be a cohesiveness with them. Milwaukee, I guess. Um, but I wasn't expecting it with the jazz, especially after the way they

fell last year. And it just seemed like, it's like, what is this team Conley? They're stuck with for one more year. I certainly didn't expect them to make a leap. They were having issues with Mitchell and go bear. Do they have to trade one of them? No, totally fine. And the other thing you mentioned that one seed, if we do have fans this summer,

that's going to really help them. That'll help them. If you look at the teams in the West, that's going to help them the. That'll help them. If you look at the teams in the West, it's going to help them the most. It'll help the Lakers. It'll help Portland, Phoenix. And in Denver, I doubt the two is going to help them more than the fans probably.

But yeah, so I have, we have Gobert. I have Zion as my 10th guy for For this reason. You mentioned it earlier. It is the all-star game. His stats are good enough to get him in. I think the last three weeks he's been really fun to watch. I allow myself the one guy on a bad team every year for a pick. But I don't feel like they're necessarily a bad,

bad team. They're 11, 14. They're only one game out of a playoff spot. So it's not like picking Jeremy Grant. Well, that's why with the standings, it's like in two weeks when the all-star games actually being played,

New Orleans could be like the five seed at that point, you know, um, just would be fun to have them. And in general, he's, you know, I led the pod with him on Thursday. He's been one of the five most fascinating guys to watch on League Pass.

He's so unique. He's such like a one-on-one. It's been really fun to watch them try to figure out how to use him. And I don't think they've figured it out yet. They're starting to, though. They are starting to. Offensively, you have Van Gundy putting the ball in his hands more often,

running a lot more pick and roll than they did early in the season, and definitely way more than last season when he was basically a post player. So you are seeing the evolution there. And I think in recent weeks, I don't have Zion or Ingram on my team, and it kind of pains me not to have Zion on there. I just put some guys who I think have been better defensively. But we have seen more effort from him on defense and people have ripped him so hard, but like it's, it's tough for young players to come into the league. He still played under 50 games

in his career and we're seeing incremental progress from him in terms of learning rotations and being at the right place. But I still don't think he's where he needs to be. There's still a lot of frequent errors. Like there was like one play last week against the Dallas Mavericks where him and one of his teammates, he was hedging on a pick and roll and Lucas started to turn the corner before Lonzo Ball recovered and Zion just kind of scooted out of the way. When it was very clear that he should maintain position there instead of getting back to Maxi Kleba.

It's like little things like that that hurt your team and put them into defensive rotation that end up resulting like in drawn files or made baskets and Zion will get better. And I believe he will because he wants to get better at it. He's one of those guys who's geared like that, but I couldn't put him on my team yet, but he's close. The reason I put him on other than I do think that he at least has the stats to be strongly considered is just, I didn't feel like they than I do think that he at least has the stats to be strongly considered,

is just I didn't feel like they were great candidates after that top nine. Because you have to take one of the Utah guards, and we're about to litigate that. And then after that, you get into DeRozan. I'm not picking Christian Wood. DeRozan, SGA. He hasn't played enough, and he's hurt right now. CP3, maybe Fox. CJ and Ja's hurt right now cp3 maybe fox everyone uh cj and joe got hurt so for me it's

like i just want to see zion in the all-star game like shoot me i think he's done just enough i'm putting him in all right conley versus mitchell who do you have i have mitchell in there i have mitchell in there and it it hurts i mean i feel bad I mean I love Mike Conley but I've never really been like the sentimental type when it comes to basketball in terms of giving him giving him a spot because he's never made it I just think Mitchell's been the better player and he's played a pivotal role for Utah you have Conley talked about this with Zach Lowe on Friday's mismatch and we've talked a lot about Conley's minutes are paired with Gobert he's played like 85 90 percent of his minutes with him but that means Mitchell's been the guy who's had to play

a lot without Gobert he's played 40 40 percent of his minutes without Gobert and he's helped stabilize that team I mean he's one of the reasons why they're still winning games even when Gobert is off the court and I think Mitchell's done a good job of playing more off ball. You're seeing more spot up threes from him. You're seeing smarter decisions, less pull up twos. I love the way Mitchell's playing, even though it still feels like he's underwhelmed compared to what we saw

in the first round. I mean, expectations were so high after the bubble. He hasn't met that, obviously, considering he's dropping 50 plus points. But he's still been really, really good for Utah. So I gave him the edge over calmly, but it's close. I have Mitchell as well.

First of all, do you have 20 on it? Well, we'll get to that. Okay. He's 24 a game. He does have the load of, if they're playing any good team in the last five minutes,

he's the guy who has to create this stuff. He is ultimately if it's superstar five minutes, he's the guy who has to create this stuff. He is. Ultimately, if it's superstar versus superstar, he's their superstar. And I think that team's playing really well and he should get credit for that. The Conley thing, I couldn't get past. He's playing 29 minutes a game, right?

And as you said, he's getting matched with Gobert pretty much that whole time. And he's played really well. All the advanced stats are bonkers for him, but the advanced stats are bonkers for a lot of guys in this team. I just think Mitchell's more important than them. He is. If Conley got hurt for three weeks, they'd patch it together.

They'd survive. If Mitchell got hurt, they'd be in trouble at the end of these games. Who is their crunch time guy? How are you creating a shot now? Now it's Mike Conley. That's the guy who's creating shots. now? Now it's Mike Conley. That's the guy who's creating shots unless Clarkson can get hot or whatever. I don't

know. I just think Mitchell's more important. He is. And like, if, if Mitchell, if Mitchell were the guy paired with go bear, like his numbers, his scoring efficiency would be significantly higher than it is because he's playing so much without him. That's hurting his numbers, but it's what the team needs in order to survive those non-Gobert minutes. I just feel like Mitchell has gone sort of underrated this season for that reason, in terms of how he's adapted to what he needs to do for that team

to be as amazing as they've been. Because they've been awesome, Bill. They've been awesome. They've been awesome. They killed the Celtics when it was a tight game, tight game, tight game. And then they just had a gear that the Celtics didn't have. And there's been other moments like that too, but it's in these fourth quarters,

they really have a gear. And here's the other thing. I've heard a lot of people talk about Mike Conley. It'd be so nice if he got in the all-star game. He deserves it. A, it's not a career achievement award. I'm sorry. We've gotten into a lot of problems with the Oscars and the Emmys and the Grammys and even all NBA and stuff like that. Like thinking about somebody's career versus the year we're supposed to vote on the year. Donovan Mitchell is more important than Mike Conley. That's one thing. Second thing, I think it's better for Mike Conley if he never makes an all-star team because

who is the best guy to ever make an all-star team for Mike Conley? I don't even know, but I know it'd be Mike Conley going forward for the rest of eternity. He would live on. If he makes the all-star team, it's like, whatever. He was this point guard, you know, never played in the finals and he made an all-star team. Great. Now he has this whole thing. We'd always be talking about, oh, you don't want to end up like Mike Conley. So I hope he doesn't make it. I haven't thought about that. That's a really good point with Conley.

I mean, Chris Vernon talked about how Conley is like somebody who wants it. He wants it badly in his career. He wants to be an all-star. But that's a good way to look at it if you're him and if you don't make it. Because the thing is, if you are giving it to Conley for sentimental reasons is like a career achievement spot you're taking that away from somebody else who is more deserving

or at least arguably more deserving who like maybe the cycle continues 10 years from now we're talking about De'Aaron Fox has never made an all-star team because Mike Conley made it many moons ago he's the new Mike Conley or John Moran if he had he stayed healthy Because Mike Conley made it many moons ago. He's the new Mike Conley. Not that Fox is that guy, or John Moran, if he had, he stayed healthy.

Hey, voters, save your career achievement stuff for when we give LeBron the MVP this year, even though he's having his worst season in six years, statistically. Save it for that. For my 12th spot, I can't believe people are even debating this. This is so dumb for me. I actually

should have had him in the 10th spot, but to build drama I wanted to get Zion out of the way. Chris Paul. Yeah, I got Chris Paul too. What the fuck? What are we doing, everybody? Chris Paul's on the All-Star team. First of all, he's Chris Paul. Pretty weird. Yeah. First of all, he's one of the best 35, 40 players we've ever had.

More importantly, Phoenix is like a borderline contender where I think they could make the West Finals if they caught a couple breaks, an injury, if they make one trade. Rob Mahoney and I talked about that on Thursday. That doesn't happen if they don't make that trade. That whole team has become an extension to him the pace they play at at crunch time they're excellent because he's doing everything and running everything and he's still you know one of the best 15 17 18 players in the league

so to me it's like what are we talking about sga all these dudes no it's chris paul what do you got thank you bill i'm glad we agree on that. I'm very happy because I feel like Chris Paul's name has been weirdly absent in the entire all-star conversation. 17 points, eight assists, possessing the ball more than anybody on that team. And he's the reason why they've taken that leap. And I do think with Phoenix, him and Booker will only get better together as the year goes on like those two guys are still building chemistry and feeling each other out but you can see it getting better as the year progresses so i think those two guys are by playoff time hopefully going to be clicking on all cylinders because

right now the team's been at its best with one of them on the court not both um but i've chris ball is a deserving all-star and i have him in as a wild card right now the one guy we didn't mention Bill that is my kind of you know young player on bad team as you mentioned I didn't think I was gonna have him until I really dove deep Shea Gildas Alexander yeah okay I had him written down too yeah SGA I mean he is putting up numbers this year he's he has over a 60 percent true shooting on the year averaging 23 points per game shea gillis alexander's just been really on both ends of the court more than some of these other guards more than derosen more than darren fox been a two-way presence and like i don't think

that's reflected in like defensive rating or any advanced stats because it's so heavily weighed by team performance but like watch sga like put on a thunder game like put on league pass one night sga is always around the ball and he's always making proper defensive rotations and doing the little things on the team and then like offensively he's gotten even better like last year with chris paul and schroeder and all those guys we saw like flashes of what he was we saw flashes during his rookie season with the Clippers. But he's made a leap, man. Like with his ability to get to the basket

and kind of weasel his way there with his long arms and kind of odd frame, he can score for you. He's driving to the rim more than anybody in the league, even more than Luka. Number one in the league in drives per game. It's unbelievable. It's kind of crazy. It's because of just his

feel for the game and he's another one of those guys where if his teammates were actually hitting shots you'd see those assist numbers go from 6.5 per game up to like eight i mean he's generating good opportunities for his teammates i've been blown away by sga and i have him as an all-star because like i said with zion earlier i feel bad not having him, but SGA has just been a better two-way presence. And so I've given him the nod there. God, I think you might have swayed me. I might bump Zion now and have SGA as my 12th. That was a really good case.

Because you're right. I basically had Zion just because his stats were good and I just wanted to see him in the all-star game. I do too. And he's not Zach Levine. But you're right. Shay's been really good. I think what stuck out to me this year compared to last,

I thought he was bad in the bubble. Yeah, he was. He was overwhelmed. It felt like first big taste of the big stage. And I didn't feel like he came through the way they needed him to. It was one of the reasons they lost. This year, he's in complete control of that team. I mean, he got his master's at Chris Paul School.

That obviously... I talked to Mahoney about whether they would trade him to basically... No! No, Bill. And the Thunder fans got mad at me. Here's why I brought that up, though. They should get pissed off at you for that. No! Yeah, but here's why I brought that up, though.

We do have a history of teams that wanted to really blow the fucking thing up to do a trade like that. That's what Sam Hickey did with Drew Holiday. And Drew Holiday was probably 90% as good as SGA was. But when they traded Drew Holiday for the, what was it, the 6th and the 11th or whatever it was? Or the 11th and a future first. And people are like, what are you doing? If you're rebuilding, why wouldn't you keep this young guy? He was like an amazing asset, but he didn't care. He just wanted all the picks and all the shots. SGA does hurt their pick right now. And that was the only reason I brought that up.

I don't think they're going to trade him, but I also, I wouldn't be shocked if you, if they traded him for some giant packets or picks, I wouldn't be like blown away by it. Cause I think certain franchises look at this, like we just want to be as bad as possible. We don't care. I mean, even with SGA, as good as he is, there's still only three games back from having top lottery odds. And I feel like you, you could simply rest SGA with some phantom. Oh, he turned

his ankle injury at the end of the season. If you really want to rank a couple of games at the end of the year, you know what they can do. They could play your guy Poku 35 minutes a game if they want to lose Poku in your guy Poku, man. I mean, it's been a rough

start for him. It's been a rough I'm working on a pilot right now for ABC where it's Poku and Mo Bamba and you're living with them as their life mentor trying to turn their careers around. Rebounding for them. Hey, I mean, hey, with the Orlando,

I'm all open to training Vucevic to get Mo Bamba some minutes. Gotta give Mo Bamba a chance. Would you see Kevin Clark, dramatic announcement, Orlando see Kevin Clark, dramatic announcement, Orlando fan Kevin Clark, that he's finally given up on Mo Bamba and no further comment at this time. Me and Kev were texting the other day about Mo Bamba. He's like, Kevin, I'm giving up.

I'm giving up, and I don't see why you're not following me down this path. He's like, what are you seeing him? What are you seeing him? And I remember I texted you. I was at a magic Celtics game, his rookie year. I was with my dad. We were, we were sitting courtside. So I was watching, I was, I was on the magic side.

I was watching them warm up, do their whole thing. The 15 minutes for the game. And Mo Bamba was just shooting 25 footers and doing nothing else. And my dad and I were looking at each other like, why isn't this guy like practicing a jump hook, some footwork stuff, you know, some hand,

like why, why does he think he's clay Thompson? I was out. I was done. That was it. Wrote him off. Gotta give him time. Mo,

Mo Bamba, like, he's still so young, Bill. He's still so young. Seven, two, seven,

nine wingspan. When he's been given, I can't believe we so young. Seven, two, seven, nine wingspan when he's been given. I can't believe we're talking about Obama, but I love it. This is great. I still think Bomba is one of those guys who could be a slow riser. And when Orlando drafted him, you draft the guy sixth. But how do you have Ken Birch playing ahead of my Ken Birch is a quality

player who deserves to be in a rotation. You did this to Zach. You hurt Zach's feelings. I did hurt Zach's feelings. Zach was about to get off the pod because I slandered Ken Birch. But you got to invest in your young players. OKC, they're doing that. They gave Pokrashevsky a chance to fail in the early season.

They're putting him in the G League, giving him minutes to fail, fail, fail and get better. It's working. He's failing. He's failing a lot. OKC's given chances to SGA to handle a lot. I don't believe he has in the NBA, but OKC is a perfect example. They're developing SGA. They're giving minutes with the ball in his hands.

Diallo, they're giving opportunities. They're investing in their youth. With somebody like Mo Bamba, who you draft with the sixth pick, I just fail to understand how you don't invest in minutes, even if he's not as good as Kim Birch. You got to invest in your youth, Bill, if you're an NBA franchise

drafting high lottery picks. I'm willing to bet Mo Bamba will be a quality rotation player in five years. I love this. Well, we've already bet this two years ago, and I'm winning. Poku, zero free throws for Poku this season.

Ooh, what's his three-point percentage in the NBA? Well, he's 24.7 field goal and 17.9 three-pointer. He's my favorite random league pass guy. He's 25 feet from the basket. He's always open and he's ready to jack him up. You know, in all seriousness, I don't think OKC would trade Shea either. Yeah. But I do think

they should trade Dort. If they really wanted to get worse this year, Dort would be somebody that weirdly could be like a Covington type trade where it'd be like, wow, they got two first round picks for Dort. It's like, yeah, have you watched Dort? Like this guy, this is a guy who could be

in a crutch time five in the Eastern finals. So maybe that's the guy they have to trade to get worse. Dort's defense against LeBron last week. Yeah, I loved it. Put his hands in his face. Unbelievable moment. There's been some fearlessness with the guys guarding LeBron this season.

Yeah. It's definitely not like it was near the end with Jordan where everybody was kind of in awe of him except for Richard Miller. There's dudes that go right at LeBron. And half the time, he makes them regret it. But what Simmons was doing for him against him, even though LeBron was good in that game, but man.

So you have LeBron as MVP before we go right now. I hate the MVP conversation. It's way too early, but I'm just thinking about it from a gambling standpoint. Um, I mean, I think I'd give him beat a very slight edge right now. Okay.

You know, I think LeBron's right there. I'm not, I'm not all the way there with you that it's like a, you know, career achievement award, but I'd have him second right now behind himiid, but that's going to be really close over the course of the year. LeBron's been really good

this year. I'm just saying, if you look at his stats, it looks like every other LeBron season. I think the media narrative is already going really fierce. The media narrative is real. No doubt about it. It's real. It's gotten to the point where it's like, you're an idiot if you don't vote LeBron MVP. And it's like,

well, we're 25 games in. Can I see some more games before I decide? That's the weird thing with all this. It's like all-star where it's like, you're an idiot if you don't vote LeBron MVP. And it's like, well, we're 25 games in. Can I see some more games before I decide? That's the weird thing with all this. It's like all-star voting. Like I said earlier, only when votes are due on Tuesday, only 37% of the season will have passed. In a normal year, it's over half. The last three years was all half. And it just feels so early.

We'll see how many games are actually completed, though, in the second half of the year. You know, it's still supposed to be 72 for every team, but we'll see what number it ends up reaching. And we'll also see the appetite of the players. I mean, I, I'd bet anything. The all-star game gets canceled.

They can do all they want, but the play, once the players start dropping out and saying, fuck this, the all-star game will fall apart. Would not shock me one bit. My bet would be no all-star game. LeBron is on FanDuel right now.

LeBron is 2-1. Embiid's plus 480, so almost 5-1. Jokic is 5-1. Durant's plus 850. Curry's 10-1. Doncic is 11-1. Giannis 13-1. Then it jumps to Dame 30-1 and gets ridiculous.

I would say of all those odds right now. Probably Embiid at plus 480 are the best odds. Those are pretty good odds. Yeah. Because it's like LeBron, given his age, that's like, you know, he tweaks his calf. He's out for two and a half weeks. And if Embiid can stay healthy, the fear for me with betting on Embiid for MVP is just

is he going to play 72 games? Or he's already missed a couple. But is he going to be there the is just, is he going to play 72 games? Or he's already missed a couple, but is he going to be there the whole season or is he going to have the typical Embiid whatever? That is the question with him, but I do think the production's for real. Me too. I mean, last year I reported, you know,

during a video we did during the offseason before the bubble started, that he was working on his face-up game, know attacking the basket with his face facing the basket and we're seeing the the product of that of all the work that he put in he looks so smooth off the dribble shooting the ball for a guy his size doing what he's done he's doing is pretty ridiculous and you know ordinarily i'd say like be careful here, small sample size, it's early in the year. But what reason has he given for you to believe that this isn't for real? He's gotten better at everything he's put his mind to over the course of his life, you know? for him because the case against it would be like, oh, if you look at his stats from, I think it was two years ago, he was like 29 a game. But it reminds me a little of when Shaq went,

his big MVP season where it's like the stats were where they were or in the ballpark of previous seasons. But the eye test was telling you like, this guy's just gets it. He's got the bag of tricks now. Embiid can torture chamber people. He does, as you said got the bag of tricks now. Embiid can torture chamber people. He does, as you said, the face-up stuff.

The three-point range, he's shooting 40% from three. At some point, this is not a small sample size anymore. He's just a 40% shooter from three. And it seems like anytime he wants, he can get fouled. Especially back to the basket. Anytime he wants. And that's the piece. Yes. And that's especially back to the basket. Yeah. Anytime he

wants. And that's the piece. I do think they call, they call stuff for him. Shaq, there was almost like a degree of difficulty when he was at his peak. Cause people were like, well, if we called every foul, he would just be at the free throw line and the other team would foul out. So they would give teams benefit of the doubt and beat gets calls, you know, and he deserves the calls and he's really hard to guard. I think he's really frustrating to play. He's, I don't know, what would you say from 1 to 10, him passing out of double teams? He's probably like a 6.

6.5, 7, something like that. It's not great, but he's not bad at it. No, no. And he's gotten better at it over time as well. And his footwork's really, really, really special. Remarkable. So we went from thinking like, you know, during the Dwight Howard era, we're like,

are we ever going to see a real center again? We're seeing a real center again. And then the Jokic thing, you know, comparing those two, like to me, Jokic is so much more Dirk than a center. He's Dirk crossed with, I don't know what, but a lot of his offensive game is so Dirkish, but unlike Dirk has the ability to take somebody down low and really pound them.

It's a good time to watch. Two incredible centers, really, like night to night. And the thing is, Jokic is 5-1 here in the FanDuel thing. And that team could get hot. He could go 35, 15, and 10 for two straight weeks and all of a sudden be the favorite.

It's not inconceivable. Not at all. Jokic is right there. I'd have him third behind LeBron. Our guy Ben Simmons is 220-1. Westbrook is 250-1. Oh, your guy Zach Levine is also 250-1.

Don't burn your money on those. I feel like he's kind of your guy, Zach Lev those. I feel like he's kind of your guy, Zach Levine. I feel like you're one of the premier Zach Levine defenders. He's flipped you. It's kind of funny how quickly that happens. It's funny how quickly that happens. But I'm telling you, Bill, I went from a hater, a Zach Levine

hater, somebody who likes him. Just react on to what I see on the court and what I see as improvement as a defender and passer. I think if you plug Zach Levine, he trades places with some other similar scoring guards, like flip him into Utah with Mitchell, put him into a different situation. We would be talking about Levine a heck of a lot differently than we do with

him on Chicago, but like Chicago, they need to fix their backcourt, like with white and Levine, and they need to fix these weird pieces. They have like, it doesn't work. I like their talent. I just don't like watching them play basketball together, fix their backcourt like with white and levine and they need to fix these weird pieces they have like it doesn't work i do like that i like their talent i just don't like watching them put basketball together but i do like a lot of the players they have yeah they have a good good

individual players that don't fit well together so i i can't wait to see what they do because some team is going to pluck that talent away from them and it's going to work out big time for the receiving team and it'll look bad on the bulls yeah but over time like it's going to work out big time for the receiving team. And it'll look bad on the bulls. Yeah. But over time, like it's what Chicago is going to need to get it right there. Cause this mix doesn't work. I would, if I was a GM, I would already have marketing.

I already would have gotten that done. It's pretty good, man. I really like marketing. I can't wait to see him. And my other guy, Monk, who now is losing playing time again,

cause the Hornets have too many guys. He would also, if the Celtics trade for Monk. All is forgiven. KOC, can hear you on the Mismatch, your own podcast feed with Chris Vernon, a couple times a week. Also, you're doing The Void, the YouTube series for us. You can find on the ringer, all that stuff.

And you're doing a whole bunch of great stuff. Look at you. You have a beard now. I feel like we've known each other for half a decade, but doing a great job. It kind of is half a decade. It really is. Hired in 2016.

Years go by so quickly. Unbelievable. Thanks for coming on on a Sunday night. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Bill. All right, that's it for the podcast. Have two more coming on this week on this podcast and then two episodes of The Rewatchables,

Sleeping with the Enemy and Coming to America, coming this week of The Rewatchables, Sleeping with the Enemy and Coming to America, coming this week on The Rewatchables. Busy week. Stay safe. See you next time. I don't have feelings within On the wayside I'm a person never wanted I don't have feelings within