The Bill Simmons Podcast - Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

NBA Sundays are back! The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss the Celtics' 118-105 win over the Knicks (3:45), before hitting the biggest NBA subplots for the remaining regular season, including: the massively intriguing Lakers, the late-bloomer Warriors (27:49), the perplexing Timberwolves, the despondent Suns, and the outwardly miserable 76ers (0:00). Then, they close the show with some rapid-fire topics, including searching for Ja Morant, the wild-card Pistons, All-NBA battles, "Tank-a-Palooza" starting to heat up, and more (1:31:46)! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producers: Kyle Crichton and Chia Hao Tat This episode is sponsored by State Farm®. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.® The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and President-elect states. Gam problem, call 1-800-GAMBOR or visit rg-help.com. Sundays with Rosillo are back next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch of us coming for you on Monday. We did an Oscar winner. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.

You can also check out our Ringer Movies YouTube channel where it's gonna be as well. All the videos and clips from this podcast are on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, but we are now a video podcast on Spotify. So you can watch it, you can listen to it, whatever you want to do. One thing to promote, Celtic City, our nine part Celtics docu-series that we did for HBO and Max is going to be Sunday, March 3rd, the first episode, nine straight weeks in a row. Spent four years on this, obviously meant a lot to me. And I think we did an awesome job.

I can't wait for everybody to see it. I'm in Boston because we did the premiere on Friday night. Had a bunch of people there. I got to talk to Joe Mazzola about the town. So exciting. Joe Mazzola, I'm making him come on Friday night. Had a bunch of people there. I got to talk to Joe Mazzullo about the town. So exciting. Joe Mazzullo, I'm making him come on the podcast. He was a really fun hang. But we had a really fun premiere of episode five,

which was about a part of the 80s with the Celtics. So, you know, that's in my wheelhouse. But very excited for everybody to watch it. And we'll be talking about it a bunch over the next few weeks. So I wanted to mention Fandual because on Tuesday on Fandual's sportsbook, you have the Mavs and the Lakers playing for the first time since the Blockbuster trade.

So it's the first Luka revenge game of I'm sure there's gonna be like 40 Luka revenge games. Fandual is giving all customers a 50% same game parlay boost for that matchup. So just go all in one way or the other because the easy way to do this is be like, I'm gonna take the Lakers and I'm gonna take the overs for the Luka.

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Look for it in the carousel on the fan dual sports book app. Coming up for the first time on Sunday this year, I think it's like year seven for us, Ryan Marcello. We're going to talk basketball and basketball, more basketball. And we're just sprinkling some goofier stuff as well. He's next. First, our friends from PearlJet. All right. We're taping this 4 15 East Coast time because I'm in Boston just went to the Celtics next game. It's another emotional year for us for Cello Sundays with Rossella.

We're back. We made it another basketball season to talk about complain about breakdown. Plus, we have a whole bunch of other things too. We have the NFL drafts coming up. I'm sure you have some movie and music thoughts, maybe some Oscar thoughts, maybe some white lotus thoughts. I never know what you're up to. How are you? I'm great. A lot of reading, a lot of history, beginning of civilization. If you have any questions we get to a movie after the basketball.

I'm ready. You want to talk some James Polk. Like I don't know where you want to go. No, I've just, I'm on this huge Susan wise Bauer kick. But again, I think we should table it. Okay. We'll save it for later. I just went to Celtics Knicks. I have just the slew of thoughts. We're watching the game. I'm sitting with my dad and I just think the Knicks are a bad matchup

for the Celtics and we're saying that the whole time. We're like, this thing can't play with us. And the Celts get up to like in the mid-20s. It's like 24, 26. And then the Knicks come roaring back. They come roaring back, man, Brunson and Towns. And we're watching like, should we be scared, Rich? Should we be scared?

And then now it's like, it's nine, and it's seven, then it's six. But we slowly realize that Tibbs has just left his starters in basically the whole game. And that's one of the reasons they're hanging around. And my dad's freaking out. I'm like, no, there's no way towns. Isn't going to play like 46 minutes. Like we're, we're, we're fine. And then the cells and I'm finishing them up here. Here's where I'll start with you.

Does tips know that the regular season, especially in the East doesn't really matter in that you just want to be one of the first four seeds and that to put miles, like the miles that he put on some of his guys today is insanity, I don't get it. I just don't understand it. He doesn't care.

I mean, I'm sure he understands it. In the brief time that I had access to him when we were at ESPN together, he's so smart about basketball. Like I think I left the room just going, do I know anything? You made you doubt yourself. Yeah. Cause I mean, I've told the story before, but we were watching a game together and then it was an inbounds.

It was a simple inbounds play. And I just went, what? What? And then he ran through like seven different things that you could do defending this inbound. And I just was like, Jesus. And look, this is what everybody says about him. Uh, we know that he's brilliant, but yeah, he doesn't care. And I think when you looked at the earlier part

of this week, because New York, we know the record against the top three teams, Boston OKC and Cleveland, they're 0-7 now, but they played in Chicago on Thursday and it was an overtime game. And here are the minutes, Precious 46, McHale 44, Cat 43, Brunson 38, McBride played 42. And then he played three other guys, 17 minutes.

So they go into that Cleveland game fresh off of that, where Cleveland, I think, was coming off a back-to-back. And you could see within that game, you're like, they're toast. Boston had the extra rest day. New York had the rest. So, you know, that third quarter was awesome because Brunson and Catt are awesome. But, like, I couldn't believe he put Catt back in after he left with the lift. They're down 18. It's like, do you want to get stuck with some Tata Mysos?

Yeah, with two minutes to go, let's do it. Well, he had, we're looking up, and I'm looking at the thing, I'm like, I don't feel like Towns has come out. My dad's like, no, no, he's come out. And then he played 33 of the first 36 minutes of the game. So he just went all in on that third quarter with his starters, basically.

And they were great. Try to hang around. And it was, but the Celtics were playing their bench guys, too, and trying to keep their guys fresh for the fourth quarter. And then that fourth quarter started. And you could see it at the game. You could see like Hart, who was, I thought, really good. He's like, any stoppage, you could see it at the game. You could see like Hart, who was, I thought really good.

He's like, any stoppage, you could see his chest heaving. And Townes started to slowly die, cause Townes was awesome. They ran out of gas and the Celtics knew it. They started targeting him and then Townes finally twisted his ankle. But I just watched stuff like that. And I know we've talked about this tip stuff forever

about how he doesn't care about the minutes, but I think it's really reckless. This team just needs to get to the playoffs with these five guys being able to play 40 minutes a game when we get to the playoffs. They don't need to do it now. You look at the standings, it just doesn't matter after the top four

and whether they're gonna be two, three, or four. I don't really feel like it matters. I think it matters for them to be healthy. And any Knicks fan I know is like, we'll just wait till we get Mitchell back. It's like, all right, so that's gonna be your big X factor in the playoffs, this guy who barely ever plays, keeping your fingers crossed on him,

keeping your fingers crossed on Townes and six foot one Brunson and Dan and Obi, who always gets hurt, to just be able to roll like this for 40 minutes a game. I think it's irresponsible, I don't get it. We've spent so many years though, talking about guys not playing with effort, effort, culture, all that stuff came up big time

this past week with the Four Nations tournament, how great that was. And I spent some time talking about just like, look, the sports are a little bit different, but I think the NBA is a much better place than when you go back five years ago. I mean, it depends on which snapshot you want to take of like, man, these guys miss a lot of games.

And again, a lot of that stuff was team metadata. So I don't know that any of it, like, I know them actually the answer to it. None of us loved it. So I do feel guilty with what I think is Tibbs approach that, you know, when you're on his team, like, this is what we do, like, this is what we do. This is how hard we play. And this is, this is the approach. And it seems like this is what we do. Like this is what we do, this is how hard we play, and this is the approach. And it seems like the players don't mind.

It's just funny when they do those player surveys, it's like which coach would you least wanna play for? Tibbs is almost always the answer, because they see this stuff. Well, and then Townes is somebody that I just think, and I thought he was really good in the first, in the second and third quarter, I thought he was really good. But he's also the second and third quarter, I thought he was really good.

But he's also somebody I think you have to be a little careful with. He hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr. over the years. But when they got back in the game, Brunson got cooking, which he does from time to time. The Celtics, they did the same kind of the offense slow down, but Towns, who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guarding him, which is Celtic strategy, and then Towns was like, But Townes, who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guarding

on which he self-took strategy, and then Townes was like, I'm gonna actually use my weight and I'm gonna bulldoze into dudes and the refs were letting him do it and all of a sudden he went from like zero points to 20 in about, I don't know, it felt like 20 minutes of real time, not even game time. So when you watch the Knicks, when you see them,

when they're all playing well and and you see the five guys, and they'll have these eight minute stretches where it makes sense, I just don't think with the way he plays the minutes and the bench, I don't really take them seriously as a championship contender, which is one of the things I wanna talk to you about today. I think they're one level below.

I really only think it's OKC and Denver and the Celtics and Cleveland right now. And I have room for a bunch of other people that these next 30 games can climb in. But I think the Knicks are a level below those four teams right now. You're right. And it's not just today.

And I thought Boston came out with like a great, like just an awesome approach, just pushing the ball in transition. That's when they're starting five with those five guys playing, and you're going, okay, this almost looks unfair. Like there's just, and Jaylen Brown was awful. I know he has points. So bad.

Yeah, you just couldn't understand what his approach to the game was today, even though if you just box score, you'd be like, what are you guys talking about? It got better. It was a really bad first half. It got a little better as the game went along, but it was not a great game for him.

So, you know, you're down 27. I mean, we could talk minutes, because you're right about the minutes part of it, but to get it from 27 to four is exhausting. Yeah, right. On top of whatever Tibbs is doing in the sub-pattern. And then Boston, you know, the only blemish on the entire like two year resume of this team

is that you'll go, are you guys shooting the other team into this game right now? Like what the hell is going on? And a lot of that happened in the third quarter. But like back to your original point, I, did you have an open mind before today about the Knicks being in that one line of, right. Okay. Cause let's run through the resume. It's, it's oh, and seven now against the three teams in Boston, Cleveland,

and okay. See, and it's also not close in those seven games. They're losing by an average of 20 points in their down big. Yeah. They're down big in every game at some point in the game. These are blowout games and they've allowed 125 points per game against those three teams in those seven games. So the data tell, like I really enjoy them.

I think they're fun. I can't wait to see what happens with them in the playoffs, but. As great as Kat has been, you can see against big wings and what Tatum's looking for. Like Tatum had a couple, like end of the first half, he had two switches into Kat where he drives right on them. Right. Yeah. And, and I think one work one didn't, they weren't like, one was a really tough make and the other was a decent look. And then that play at the very end, when he hits the

three, he knew like, cat was like, I don't want to run up because this guy's like attacking the shit out of me. Yeah. Tatum comes off the screen knowing he's pulling up because cat is so far away from him. And that's just what they're going to do. And you're right. Like maybe Mitchell Robinson And that's just what they're going to do. And you're right. Like maybe Mitchell Robinson helps. Of course he'll help if he's healthy, but solving this seems like a massive ask of that guy. I think the Celtics are a very bad matchup for them.

With all the guys they have to throw up Brunson with all the ways they can attack towns with the fact that their two wings are just better than the next two wings and those guys are really good. And, you know, I thought Josh Hart was fantastic today. And especially just watching, you know, there's stuff you can see on TV, but then in person, just the motor that he has, and now he's just trying to catch his breath every time the game stops. You can watch him.

He's just like taking these big breaths. Cause he knows he's got to like, go like a rabbit again. Um, but I think it's a bad matchup for them. And Cleveland weirdly is, I think, even though Cleveland's been great and they have 10 losses in their plan after we taped this, I think Cleveland's a more realistic series for them

than the Celtics are. With the size the Celtics have. Now the question with the Celtics is, poor Zingus we saw today, he was moving great. Are we getting that guy in April and May? Drew, they've been really kid gloves with the whole season. They just, Chad Finn of the Boston Globe was writing that he's on the DJ plan.

I thought that was great. I'm gonna steal it from him. He's just on that, yo man, just be there in April, May, June. We don't care about right now. Feel free to just, just whatever, pick your spots. Today he gave a shit. When he gives a shit and poor Zingas is healthy This team is still in my opinion the best team in the league

I just don't know is that team gonna be there in April met? We'll see They were so lucky with the injuries last year and then facing a Dallas team that wasn't gonna be able to exploit some of the Weaknesses to the point where they didn't even really need poor Zingas So the whole design of this Celtics team, the whole reason why you move the assets you do at the time, and then remember the contractual obligation to Perzingis, because like, even if you liked him in that Washington season, where he was pretty good, you're like, man, that is a leap of faith, but they had to do it to get him to opt out.

So look, when they're right, that first quarter, you're right. Like, I don't know what it looked like in person, so I'll defer to you here, but that first quarter was just a nice little reminder. And they've been on a really good run here, by the way, too, after that weird 500 play stretch, which basically is going to happen to anybody in today's NBA. But that first quarter, I was like, man, is this nasty. And they just do a great job. And here's the most important stat.

Like I'll ask it. What do you think the most important stat from today's box score was in this game what was it rebounds Brunson zero free throw attempts oh because I had a Brunson think for you something important happened today there was a moment my dad and I agreed I think he's become the preeminent floper in the NBA. I actually have to put him. The reviewed player, the inbounds when he was coming right to left. It's just a whole bunch of them. He's doing it on both ends.

He's doing it on defense and offense. By the way, kudos to him because it's working, but I think Hardin's getting a little older, right? Maybe his best flopping days. Probably 2018, 19 range. Trey Young was there for a second, but I think some of the rule changes have gotten his head. Brunson's top of his game. He's flopping on picks, he's flopping coming off screens,

he's flopping when somebody bumps into him on a drive, he's flopping for charges. I think he's the complete package. It was some of the best flopping I've seen. He's all first team, no question. Yeah, maybe I'm premature. I mean, he's clearly in the running for MVP. Maybe I'm vaulting him up too high,

but just what I saw today, I was in awe. He didn't even get any free throws though. I mean, this is a low free throw attempt game. I think at the end of the third quarter, there was 16 total, or I think Corn the end of the third quarter, there was 16 total or I think Cornett then took a couple. So it was, um, especially on the town's drives, they were letting them play. Yeah.

But see towns, you know, it's, it's amazing how productive, I don't know if there's anything in the NBA that I dislike more from start to finish. That's more productive than his drives. And I think they're better this year than they even were at Minnesota. Cause like the Minnesota drives are like, what are you doing? And he's been so good. He's, this is the perfect role for him. Cause there's all these other guys.

You can have a Mikhail game. You can have an OG game, you know, Hart can go off Brunson's still going to be the focal point, all this stuff. He's a stretch five, which I think is almost mandatory if you're trying to be a title contender, but we know their defensive numbers are not good. We know what they are against those other top teams. And today wasn't really close, man.

It wasn't. Well, they also, it's weird with Bridges and OG. I texted you during the game, because one of my favorite Rizzolo jokes is the, was Tobias Harris out there? Oh no, he was out there for the last hour. Like I always think of you anytime I'm watching a game and I'm like, Oh, it's Mikhail Bridges.

I forgot he was playing. I didn't, it's exciting. And then OG, but both of those guys had these really like quarter long stretches where they might inbounds the bottom. I'm like, Oh yeah, Bridges, there he is. Um, they haven't figured out the same way the Celtics, I think, with White and Holiday, who can, who can, you know, take a back seat because you have Tate, them has the ball a lot.

They'll run the place for Porzingis. Jalen Brown will have his first five minutes of the second quarter as my dad's just bitching in the stands the entire time about the shots and White and Holiday have figured out how to kind of sneak in and out and get little fast break layups or get like threes in the corner. And they're always involved. And what I saw today and what I've seen on TV too is there's just games where Bridges and OG just aren't involved.

Did it feel like it was anything that was happening to them or, cause like Brunson got off to a really slow start and then those guys go nuts. I mean, what was it? 38 points in the third quarter. They were throwing everything at, they were throwing everything at Brunson got off to a really slow start and then those guys go nuts. I mean, what was it? 38 points in the third quarter. They were throwing everything at Brunson. They were really disciplined. Brunson got cornet a couple of times and then I thought there was another time

where it was like the same movement where they're gonna get Brunson down the left side and they brought Tatum over as like a third defender. They just were like, fine. So I thought there was these little moments in there that kind of back up what you're saying. So go ahead. Well, you know, I was ready to almost lead the pod with Tatum.

And then he had this really terrible stretch where I was like, this is still like the last hump for him because the first half of that game, his two way game, and you saw it in the Philly game too, and there's been a, but, and I feel like it's getting better as you're going, his passing, it feels like he's going to be between seven and 10 assists almost every game now when he's locked in his rebounding and his Swiss army knife stuff that he does on D where he can guard basically everyone on the other team. I do feel like he's going up a level, but there's still that last piece where it's like, he never has like the awesome 48 minute,

oh my God, he blew my doors off game. It's like three quarters of the four. And I think that's the last level for him. If you want to be on that SGA Yoke-age level, you've got to do it for the whole two and a half hours. And right now he's at about an hour 45. Does that sound too nit picky? No.

Um, no, my thing with Tatum is been pretty consistent that as much as I loved him, and I think I appreciate him that there was never going to be a time where like that guy's the best player in the world. Like that seems like an impossible goal to accomplish. Would you agree with that? Are you hesitating? No, because sometimes when I watch him, when he's really going well, I feel like he's got all the pieces, but I don't, at this point, I think it would have happened.

I think we would have had some sort of nudge where we would have had some crazy stretch that all the greatest players have had. Like what SGA just had, where SGA was just like, I'm just gonna score 50 points a bunch of times, though, and my team's just gonna win every game. And it's just, that's the last, so he's like a level below.

And all the MVP ballad stuff that the MVP's basically done is the top two guys. But I think Tatum's, I think he's been a level below and that you know, the all the MVP ballot stuff that the MVP is basically done It's the top two guys But I think tatum's I think he's been the third best guy in the league this year I would put him against janis. I would I would pick tatum I think he's had a bigger impact on a winning team I know his team's been a little bit better But he's the durability thing is the piece with him that I just think he doesn't get credit for he fucking plays Yeah, he's like this is the most I've ever appreciated him.

Me too. His passing, the way he beasts guys, like a team the other day, we were just kind of like bullshit because Goldsberry and I had done constructing our most complimentary starting five of today's players, right? Yeah. And I just, I put Tatum on it because I felt like he provides so much. I mean, he's basically playing point guard at this size. Right.

And I don't know that that gets talked about a lot nationally. And guarding towns on the other end. Like that there's nobody in the league doing that other than him basically. Right. Which is what he did in the NBA finals. Now granted the game's different. So it's not like he's down in the post against Moses Malone for 40 post-ups a game, but he was, he

was a center on defense and he's playing point guard and, you know, maybe somebody else brings the ball up, but then they bring it back to him and it's his decision-making. And so, you know, maybe there's some output stuff that doesn't line up with the SGA's or the nights where Ant goes fucking crazy, you know, which is just so much fun to watch. Like Ant having one of those nights is probably still my favorite thing, other than just a reminiscent Curry flamethrower game.

And honestly, I'm probably, I would tell you like the certain moments with Ant that I probably still like more than any other single player in the league. But, you know, Tatum just has more options around him. I still would say Boston at its peak has more options offensively than even Oklahoma City does. I don't know if there would be much of an argument there. So even though you're not getting that peak output that would maybe put him in the belt conversation, I am so happy with his approach that it's, I'll take this. His assist ratio on the advanced stuff has never been better.

You know, a lot of the advanced metrics are like peak for him, but there's also, it's not just a counting thing. It's not even the metrics. There's just an eye test thing with him where how steady he is. Like he had a baseline drive on OJ, but he But there's also, it's not just a counting thing. It's not even the metrics. There's just an eye test thing with him where how steady he is, like he had a baseline drive on OG where he went right into him

and moved him off the spot and got the free throws. And I'm like, how many other guys 20 plus feet away would have the balls to drive at OG and look like the stronger player? So I've never, like I've never been more in love with his game than what I've seen this season. That's how I felt today watching it. I just feel like he's maximized a lot of stuff

that he's been working on the last couple years. And if you took this version of Tatum and you put this version in the 22 finals, I think they beat the Warriors. And he wasn't even close to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he can do now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that. And I beat the Warriors. And he wasn't even close to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he can do now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.

And I love the durability and the fact, you know, JJ said something about this because he was talking about the Lakers. This was even before the Dallas game. When he was, you know, because they're way better on defense, the Lakers. I think they're like third in defensive rate in the last 20 games.

And you know, they were even playing better before the trade. And somebody asked him what was different. And he's games and you know they were even playing better before the trade and somebody asked him what was different and he's like you know the NBA is about just playing hard just playing like making sure your team plays hard every night and I think that's a skill that Tatum where if he's taken off a quarter and Charlotte you really notice it because of the the level of intensity that he has game to game quarter to quarter half to half when he doesn't have you're like, oh shit What's wrong with Tatum?

What what's he doing? He's just jacking up shots. Why isn't he rebound? Like it's really like glaring so anyway, I think you should get probably more credit for for that I don't know if there's an extra half step for him. Maybe we'll find out in the playoffs. You really think it's, well I think you've already answered that it's kind of a closed case, but I mean, at any point do you think, I mean, I guess he's got a couple years to go, but is he gonna surpass SGA? I don't think it's ever gonna be as easy, like for the Yoke Edge stuff, that Yoke Edge night to night,

it's just easy for him to create shots for everybody. The best possible shots, right? Last night's a bad example, but for the most part. SGA is just like, he's just getting the 35. He's just getting the 40. It doesn't matter what you're doing. He's just gonna get to where his points are. And I think Luca is in that category too.

I don't know if Tatum's ever gonna be at that level, but I think, to me he reminds me, it's a weird one, and I know I'm thinking about it probably because we just finished this nine part Celtics docu-series, but to me he's more like a Havlicek type. He's this Swiss army knife that does all these different things for your team. He's never the best scorer in the league,

he's never the best assist guy, but he's just additive, and I think that's the level that he's gotten to. So he probably reminds me of Havlicek the most, even though he's taller and. You know, he's got size, all that stuff, but just like they could play small ball center with them if they wanted. He could also play point guard for them if he wanted. Um, the other thing with the South side, I think Cornet has been playing really well and Pritchard's been up and down.

How's there's coming back, but they're getting more of a bench than I think, and then Horford being able to only play like 18, 20 minutes. Their bench is back. And I think, I wouldn't be surprised if they went on a little run here over the next three, four weeks, because they haven't really had a run this season. You know, we're gonna talk about that after the break,

some teams that we think might make an actual run. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a streak like have you been you felt like they've had one kick-ass three-week stretch other than Like you'd have to go back to November. I just don't remember it Yeah, but I mean aren't they are they 12 and 3 11 and 4 in the last 15 I mean, I know it was yeah, but I'm talking about like what the stuff they're doing last year where they were just like ripping people's heads off for three straight weeks. Yeah, they're 10 and two in their last 12. Yeah. This, this kind of feels like it other than, you know, the start of the 92.

They also had that, I don't know, what is it? Seven game stretch there in November. So the weird thing was just a couple of games against lesser opponents, a Toronto game, they could have lost a New Orleans game and the standard for them is so much higher. But that first quarter was so impressive that, you know, I was just a nice little reminder, I think on a national stage for everybody of like, this is what this team is capable of. And I don't know that there's anybody else. Granted you talk about the OKC defense, which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later today. Might be the tiebreaker for a lot of different sure we'll get to a little bit later today.

Might be the tiebreaker for a lot of different people, but those first 12 minutes were just awesome. Let's take a break and I want to talk about teams that can make an actual run. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, it personal price plan and bundling home and auto. It's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.

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with 30 games left. And some of them are easy to figure out and some of them are a little harder to figure out. But the number one subplot to me, and I can't believe I'm even saying this and it makes me mad that we're in this position, but what can you do? I think the Lakers are the number one subplot

to watch over the next 30 games. The Denver game was so interesting last night to see the real Luke in a Lakers game and to watch their centers, whatever, they're just double teaming Jokic, they're just gonna be happy with Westbrook and those, like whoever, fine, shoot 16 for 41 from three, we don't care. We got to take out Jokic. But the thing that I really noticed that people talked about when they made the

trade was just 48 minutes of Luca and LeBron or Luca or LeBron. But you always have somebody out there who just has this crazy IQ and is a really good offensive player. And, um, I've never wavered from thinking Luca was going to be awesome on this team. Uh, I just thought it was scary last night. And if I'm in the West, I think there's four teams that can win the title and we can talk about a couple of wild cards. I think the Lakers are an official wild card for me. I agree. And it's the defensive numbers. Like you mentioned it,

if you go back to the last 15, that's the number one defense in the league. They're 12 and three is the best record over the last 15. The offense. Wait, what's your explanation for that other than just they're playing hard? Well, I think having some of the pieces, I thought Rui played his ass off last night, both, I mean, you can look at the points, but it was what he was doing defensively. Now granted Vando comes in and just hacks the shit out of Jokic, but you know, it's

like, they're not going to call all of these, although they tried to call all of them on Vinterbilt because he didn't play a ton of minutes. But you know, the camera-ish thing seems over. The Dalton connect minutes are limited if you start looking at these things. So I think we gave Vincent being healthy with Vando being healthy with them liking this Rui center matchup stuff because they're basically forced to figure this out because the Jackson Hays minutes usually aren't that great because the longer he's out there, the longer there's just going to be something that happens. They and specific to last night, Bill, I loved that game.

Okay. Me too. I thought it was really impressive because we look at the playoff and you go bracket wise, like how far can LA go? As I will, they're going to run it to Denver impressive. Cause we look at the playoff and you go bracket wise, like how far can LA go? As I will, they're going to run it to Denver again. So that's not going to work. And last night's one result, but I thought this coaching staff showed the

difference where it's always about the roster for me, but there are little times like Kenny Atkinson this year with Cleveland, like clearly there's something better with this, with his approach to basketball. I think JJ and this staff did such a fantastic job of last night's preparation. The possessions, when you really looked at what they were doing, there's these non-spacing lineups that Denver runs out there outside of Yokech. Um, where the Lakers are like, if this is what you're going to run out, like we are not going to pay attention to Aaron Gordon.

We're not going to care about Westbrook. They had a play and I'll finish here, but LeBron was on Yokech kind of in the paint left side. Dalton is in the dunker spot, ignoring Aaron Gordon. Okay. He's basically under the rim. The other two wing players to the right, the Lakers defenders are in the paint. So that's four players in the paint against Jokic. The only one that was providing any spacing was Michael Porter Jr. at the top of the key and Rui was defending him, but Rui was only like a foot beyond the free throw line. And you saw possession after possession where you could see the Lakers like

specifically the way they prepped that game last night, I think that's a credit to JJ and the staff going, we've got to come up with something new that's Yoke-age specific and it worked and you know, it really wasn't much of a game on top of all the Luka stuff that I know you want to get to. Well, they did the same thing that that Celtics game that we both went to in LA, where they kicked the Celtics ass and part of it was they just were really well prepared and they used a bunch of things against the Celtics that I had kind of been waiting for, you know,

somebody to do. It's like, oh, you're going try to force it to Porzingis? Great, that's gonna throw your whole team out of whack. Keep giving the ball. And Porzingis had a good first quarter and nobody else did. And then it's like, oh, here's the top of the second quarter. This is when Jalen tries to get his offense for six minutes. We're gonna make it really hard for him.

And you were just watching it going, oh, this team's got their shit together. Last night against Denver, um, you would think, well, why doesn't everybody do that against you? Okay. Just first of all, it's hard to do it. Second of all, it's hard to commit to it and your guys have to be really disciplined with it, but they also have smart players. Like everyone makes fun of Lucas defense, but he's still a really smart basketball player, right? LeBron, I think has been noticeably better on defense

for what, a month and a half now? I don't know what the timeline is, but yeah. Compared to where we were the first month of the season where it was like, oh my God, he's just not playing, he's a DH now. Now he's really active and they just have size and physicality that I think, you saw it against the Celtics, they bullied the Celtics.

Now, you know know slightly different team But when they have those when they have Rui and LeBron and Luke all together like those that's like 800 pounds of dudes So are you in are you it are they the year 15? Are they the first team outside of your tier one playoffs like title? Well, I wrote them I wrote down you teared us up No, I wrote down things I like about them teared us up No, I wrote down things I like about them and the number one thing is just always having Luke or LeBron out there one of the two or both I think it's just It's just really hard to play them. You don't have a moment like you had with the Knicks today where Brunston has to sit down

It's like alright. It's campaign time cross your fingers. Like the Lakers just never have that campaign was nice though that first shift He was he was he made three in a row. That's probably the best thing ever for a Knicks opponent You're like, hey, don't forget like tight game second half campaign made three in a row in the first half. So that's good for us He's gonna think he can get to 20 There the fact that the defensive numbers are like if they were ninth or eleventh the Lakers I Beg, okay, that's a little fluky. There's probably some, when you're in the top five, when you're in top three, like that's not fluky at some point. I think JJ is a legitimately good coach.

And I thought what they did last night to Joker, who is terrible because they made him terrible. But then you just look at it. It's just that at some point it's math. Last night, LeBron and Luca had 59 19 and 12 If you're gonna get numbers that look like that from your best two guys You're gonna be heard from from a couple playoff rounds. So if I was a Laker fan, I'd be excited But this is why we all went nuts with the trade happen. This is fucking crazy

You don't just get to add the fourth best guy on your team In the league to your team just you know for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, who by the way, has been playing great. Yeah, he has been good. Uh, I think some of the worst anti LeBron content that I've ever seen was Lucas stat lines, those first three games with LeBron. Like I get, if you hate LeBron, you hate LeBron, but come up with better evidence than that, because I went to the Lucas first game, you know, that he had played in like two months, I went to crypto that night to watch him play as Utah.

And he was so tired, like four times up and down the court. I'm like, Oh man, I'm like, he's so tired. Like he doesn't even, cause he hasn't been complaining. He's not tired. Like he doesn't even, he hasn't been complaining, because he's on a new team. Like you haven't seen him. And it was kind of funny, like obviously last night's the best that he's looked with the Lakers.

That first half was incredible. The way he was kind of getting into a shot, not like, basketball's funny, man. You can be this incredible player. Here we are talking about somebody who has a chance to be the best player in the world. And it's like, I'm new here, so I'm just trying to fit in for a little bit. And if you're

a coach and you're, it's Luca, you're like, don't be trying to fit in to just do what you do. And then we'll figure it out around you. And just because the stats were bad and then they had the weird breaks, like all that stuff was so stupid. He was great last night. It was funny too, because he, he made a play and then he cycled out of the three point line and was wide open and he didn't get the ball back. And it's the first time I've seen him pissed with the Lakers and he put his hands up like you idiots, like, what are you, what are you doing? And I'm going, this is great. This is, this is like, that's, that's what you want out of this, dude.

You want to press that he didn't get the ball back. So I'm, I'm shocked. The defensive numbers are that good. The last 15 it's been a big part of this dude, you want to rest that he didn't get the ball back. So I'm, I'm shocked. The defensive numbers are that good. The last 15 it's been a big part of this turnaround. They finally beat Denver. So I'm not ready to say that they've solved Denver. You know, there's just going to be some spacing stuff in the playoffs where if it's Westbrook or if it's Brown.

And I think even Michael Porter jr. Is like a coin toss game. Um, Gordon is a matchup specific guy, but they're going to ignore him. Even though he's shooting like over 40% from three, they just did a great job of loading up on all this stuff. But look, man, you're closing group in a tight playoff game. If the three perimeter dudes are LeBron, Luca and Reeves, I have a hard time believing that defense is going to be just living on stops though in the play.

Right. Yeah. They're probably trying to outscore. Yeah, the Luca dialogue was, I feel like a lot of the sports dialogue is just getting worse because it's just this quick rush to whatever judgment, you know, he could have one bad game as first like your game

and everyone's like, oh my God, this is why the Mavs traded him. And it's, nobody thinks of the human element of, this guy thought he was gonna be the next Thurk Lewicki in Dallas. He had no idea the trade was coming. They trade him, he's gotta move to LA, he's gotta figure out where he's gonna live. He's taking shit about that.

He's got a drinking problem and that he eats too much and they didn't wanna give the max and they're just, you know, laying into him left and right, leaking stuff to make them look bad. On top of that, he's got to figure out how he fits into this new team. He's got to play with LeBron, who's this guy he grew up watching, right? He's got to figure out how he fits in offense, new coaching staff. He's not in shape.

It's like, Oh, you think this is going to go bad for like a week? Yeah. And he hadn't played, he hadn't played in two months. Like Perkins, three day Perkins tweeted three days ago, it's gonna be another two, three weeks before we see the real Luca he is to get in basketball shape, get his legs under. And then last night he tweets, Like I said, give Luca time. It's like, yeah, no kidding.

We gotta give Luca time, sure, to adjust to his new team and get back in shape. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to figure this out. He's had one of the five best offensive starts to anybody in the history of the NBA in their first seven years. I think we're gonna be okay with Luka Doncic. I'm not worried. But people were worried. I don't know what happened to the sport. Who did you respect that was worried? Well, that's...but some people have platforms. this is, this is kind of what you do. You just go nuts, get mad.

Luca Dodge, it was terrible. This is why the Mavericks traded him. I would say over 50% of your tweets are about LeBron or Jordan. Then you should just be banned from the platform. It's fair. We can talk to Elon about it. Um, so you've been hanging out with him much. Haven've talked to Elon about it. Have you been hanging out with them much lately? Haven't talked to them.

Lakers have the six best odds on Fandl right now, so it's not a hot take to say, oh, I think they're a title contender. I think that's where they are. I think they're in that wild card team. I went back and I looked at, I think this needs a name. I came up with post all-star late bloomer, but I think we could do better. I don't know, that sounds great. Thanks.

What is it? Well, these teams that over the course of the last 30 games at some point, got their shit together and became a real contender. So the reason I thought of this was because we watched it happen with Dallas last year. Dallas was 16 and four to finish the season. They were fifth net. They just remember they had a big winning streak, then they had a losing

streak and then they started winning again. And at some point it felt like there might be something there in a real way. Right. 2023 it happened with the Lakers. They were 16 and seven down the stretch fourth net. They ended up making the Western finals. 2022 is when the Celtics were they 25 and 25 then went on the run. Their last 22 games, there were 17 and five first in that below 502.

Like it might've been maybe 24, 25. They made the finals. I threw out the two strike, uh, not strike the COVID years. And then in 2019 Portland finished the last 25, 19 and six fourth net. And they made the Western years. And then in 2019, Portland finished the last 25, 19 and six, fourth net. And they made the Western finals. So this does, there is a team, there's a track record of a team we didn't think was in the top three or top four moves up there. And for me, it's either the Lakers or Golden State. And we're taping this right now as a, as Golden States playing and they're beating up on Dallas, but those would be my two picks.

Golden State or the Lakers, and I'd probably lean Lakers because of Luca and the talent. Who would you have? It feels like the Knicks are on the Lakers line of this though, right? That's fair. But I don't think they,

would you necessarily say they would be an out of nowhere team? I guess it could conceivably happen. I think they're more likely to have more injuries than where shit happened than to go on and run, but maybe I'm wrong. Okay, but here's something that I like about the Lakers, because I think this is always an important thing.

And because I think guys play more often now, because this could get really misleading sometimes, you're looking at like matchups against the better teams, you're like, okay, who was there? You know, like even when I go through those Knicks seven games, it's basically everybody played in those games for the Knicks. I think OG missed one.

So, you know, there's different times where you go head to head and you're looking at it and getting ready for the playoffs, but like, how do they do against each other? You're like, all these guys missed these games. But again, like I said, it's been a little bit better. The Lakers are one of three teams in the West with a winning record against teams 500 or better.

So clearly OKC's 20 and nine. The Rockets are 20 and 15 and the Lakers are 15 and 12. And I think that's important. Memphis is under 500, Denver's under 500, the Clippers are under 500, Minnesota's under 500. So again, like I said, only three teams, the rest of them are all under 500. I think for me on the Lakers part of it is we're totally aligned on the Luka thing. Like give me a break. Like this guy at this age with his track record and because he hasn't played in two months. So you're like, if you were watching these early games going, what's wrong? So this is what you think it's going to be now.

You just think this is who Luka is going to be like. It's just going to be a complete mess. Yeah. Do you know how absurd that is? So it's, we're not even at peak Luka. They're putting together this performance. They have this defensive profile the last month or so, but you know, bracket it out. Four or five, they're playing Houston.

You're probably picking the Lakers because you trust their offense more than you trust Houston's offense, right? Okay, then guess what's waiting for them on the other line? Sadly, I did this and as you know, I hate the Lakers and this made me sad. Okay. But how serious by serious, I was like, oh my God, they're going to fucking make the Western finals. So they're beating Oklahoma city in a one, four matchup. You're crazy. Oh no, I'm just saying there's a scenario with these brackets where if they're not four or five, if they can somehow

avoid okay. See to the Western finals. Right. And then you think they're going four or five, if they can somehow avoid OKC to the Western finals. Right? And then you think they're gonna beat Oklahoma City? Well, so they would have to get to two or three. Okay, all right, yeah, so fine, but they're- Which I think is completely, completely reasonable. Right now they're 34 and 21, Memphis is 37-19, and Denver's 37 and 20.

I think they have to leapfrog. I don't think they'd wanna play OKC, but I also wouldn't blindly pick OKC against Luca LeBron either. Would you? I mean, I would pick them to win, but I wouldn't be like, oh, lock it in, write it in marker

that OKC is 100% winning. I'd be a little nervous. Well, I want to see more of the Chet stuff, but defensively the Chet stuff has been really good. So, it's not the more of the chat stuff, but defensively the chest stuff has been really good. So, um, you know, it's, it's not the same as the lucre thing, but I mean, we're looking at Chet missing three months and then trying to come back. He's not taking a ton of shot. Like I can't wait to see what that guy looks like and what this team looks like.

So there's just, but they still have a massive issue with certain matchups bigs. And normally I would say, what are you going to do against Jokic? Like, do you really think you're going to survive seven games against like having Rui was great last night, but let's not lose our minds about who this team is. I still have Denver and OKC in the Western finals. But I think if you start thinking about series by series, game by game, this Lakers team is scary, especially with the fact that they're actually well coached. Right.

And there's, they're a matchup team. I think Especially with the fact that they're actually well coached. Right? And they're a matchup team. I think they're a team that could win on the road in a game seven. Right? How many teams could actually go on the road and win a game seven?

It's not the longest possible list. This is a team that would not be afraid to go on the road. I think the Vincent thing is important for them too. Because that's a guy who they signed who's been banged up or sucked for a year and a half. And then people forgot that he wasn't good, people forgot that he was actually good and valuable in Miami and was in big games for them

and kinda knows where to go and what to do. He's one of those guys. And you need a guy like that on a weird team like this and the fact that Reeves has gone up a level, and JJ loves Reeves. I mean, the best thing JJ and LeBron have done have been just pump Reeves up, pump him up, make him really think he's this gifted offensive player.

And I think he's playing with so much confidence now. Like, how many teams have a third guy who's as good of an offensive player as Reeves is? It's not a long list. It isn't a very long list. I mean, Pat Bev really went for it last night. I think he tweeted out they have the best one through four in the NBA and I was like who's the fourth? It was like Rui. I'm like mmm going I think you're

forgetting about Boston and then OKC with Chet. I think there's a lot of guys that you could pick from there that would be in the conversation but as far as like number three guys with Reeves I I mean, is it Derek White? Is it? I was thinking somebody on Cleveland. Is it like Mobley? Mobley? It's just a completely different kind of player.

Like I'd rather have Mobley than Reeves, but offensively, like initiating your own stuff, it's not even a conversation. Reeves is so good at it. Right. When you're talking about good offensive players, a good litmus test is, that guy scored 45 last night.

Are you surprised? Right? Like if Derek White scored 45, I'd be like, what? Did he make like 12 threes? What happened? But Reeves had that game the other day when everybody was hurt. What did he have, like 38, 40?

No, he had 45. He was 46. Right. Right. I wasn't shocked. Yeah, but the other starters are Dorian Finney-Smith, who by the way, like we hadn't even mentioned yet for the defensive part of what they've done. Right. Huge. Getting D'Angelo Russell away from this basketball team.

You know, I try to tell you guys, Lakers fans, I know, I get it. You know, he makes a couple threes and points and you guys are super into that. But getting him away from this group has also been a big Transition from who they are right now and like I feel bad. We didn't even mention Dorian finish Smith at this point I mean he made one shot last night and he was a plus 20 That trade made me mad Why is this like Russell so much no cuz I like the I wanted the Lakers to not be good Fuck they got finished Smith. They finished be good. I said, fuck, they got Finny Smith? They, Finny Smith's good. He's an additive player.

There were some guys around the trade deadline that I was wondering, like I still can't believe the Lakers didn't go after Nick Klykston. Was he available though? I don't know what, what are the Nets doing? I mean-

Playing their ass off. I know, but they traded to get their picks back for some tanking plan. And then they just can't stop beating teams. I know. I just don't think Philly was ready for the Keyon Johnson Watford two man game to close. They had no scattering report on that. Watford was like, I got it.

I couldn't stop watching the scouts. I tried to turn that game off like four different times last night. I hate, I hate watching the Sixers play basketball. They are disgusting. But I can't turn it off. And then I was like, that's close. And I'm like, look at Brooklyn. Look at this team.

Now they can't stop. Now they're ahead of them. They're ahead of them in the standings and the E's that flipped it. In that Philly game, they had a couple moments where they blew the lead and were like, all right, valiant effort. Exactly.

And then somebody else would hit a three. And then all of a sudden they'd be winning again. Whatever Philly is doing to Embiid is one of the weirdest subplots of, not just the year, but the decade. I have no idea why he's playing. And he looks miserable. He's falling down, I think, twice as much

as he's ever fallen down. Uh, looks like he's literally hurt. What's his F pro 100? Do you know? I think this is the highest the last couple of weeks. He's just, he had that play when he ran into contest to play in the corner and just kind of went into the third round. He could stop. It's pretty, uh, it's pretty brutal. So the case for Golden state really quick for it to be the late bloomer is just the combo of Jimmy. I don't know what it is about Steph. It would be the greatest feature somebody wrote,

but it just seems like everybody that passes through Steph's life, they turn into Gandhi for like the first three weeks. Like the way they talk about him, it's just like this religious experience to be Steph's teammate. And Jimmy is like so happy. Like there was that clip of him

diagramming plays in the huddle. This is a guy who was just sitting next to the water cooler the last three months of the Miami season. And now he's like, Traymond, come here. I have an idea for a high screen. And he's just so invigorated. And I think they're legitimately dangerous looking at their schedule

and they're beating Dallas today as we're taping but they got Charlotte or land does a mess at Philly Great at Charlotte at Knicks at Nets Then they have a seven game home stand against Detroit Portland Sacramento Knicks Denver Milwaukee, Toronto Like it's a team that could go on like a 12 to 2 run and I wouldn't be surprised So that that would be the other one I'm kind kinda looking at. I guess the thing to watch is whether Curry can go up a level again or not.

Because we haven't seen it this year from him. His life looks a lot easier having somebody like Jimmy Butler out there. That's the thing. And the shooting numbers would back it up. The three point shooting would back it up. Even watching the beginning of today's game, even though it wasn't just super aggressive,

like having Butler just be somebody else that people are worried about. And of course they ran some other play where it's like Curry's the lead block on the cut. So everybody freaks out and then Butler kind of slips a screen and then he's the second cutter behind it and he's wide open in a way that, you know, he's probably like, this must be, I just can't imagine playing basketball for a living and then getting the chance. No wonder everybody's in a good mood. They're like, this is what happens when he moves,

all of this other shit happens, and then now my life is this much easier. Although I do have to point out on a couple broadcasts, our memories can't be this short. Butler has a nice game, he's super aggressive. I mean, he was taking 10 shots a game from Miami. It was the lowest field goal of teams per game. Not going to the foul line at all.

No, he was actually still was like, he's one of the most hyper free throw rate guys in the league because he pump fakes at the rim and guys just go for it all the time. So like if you played him in a series, you go, you guys are gonna stay down against him. Now he's shooting a million free throws, but he's just more aggressive now, you can tell. He's taken 13 shots a game again. The shot count goes down because he's taking so many free throws. Right.

But he, for all the stuff that he talked about in Miami, like they took my joy from me, like he broke up with a quarterback. Uh, you're just going like, we just saw this guy destroy his value around the league. And he makes a couple of cuts and hit some free throws. And it's like, man, I'm going to be a free throw. I'm going to be a free throw. Like we just saw this guy destroy his value around the league and he makes a couple cuts and hit some free throws and it's like, man, golden state. Like, you know, everybody who's golden state is probably still scared to death of like what the longterm thing could be here.

But in the short term, it's, it's awesome to see, you know, some of these possessions late in games where you could just see step being like, I'm running around, I get the ball, I'm trapped, I throw it to somebody else and I don't even want to take some of these shots. And then you have people being like, Oh, his, his shooting is dipping. It's like, well, no shit. So I think his life is going to be a lot easier now. I still don't even think they're in the last though. Are they, you have them in the Lakers class?

I don't know. I want to watch it for a couple of weeks because like Butler, he's averaging almost 10 free throws a game for Golden State as we're taping this. They're beating Dallas by 20 and he's already six for six. He's plus 24 in the game, but watching the way he's playing with these guys, it it's weird. It reminded me of when Moss got to the 07 Pats and was just like so delighted to be in a real offense

with Brady and he was just like skipping around, right? And just so happy and had so much space and knew that if he was gonna do whatever, the ball was gonna be there. And Butler watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond I wasn't prepared for. I wish we were watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond, I wasn't prepared for. I wish we were watching the game right now. But the high IQ thing he has with Draymond,

I think has been fun to watch, where he's posting up and Draymond's at the top. They're playing this weird two man game, but everybody's so scared of the Curry shooting. I'm not counting this team out. It reminds me a bit of like when Brian Heideck was cast as the pool guy in Melrose Place and he was like, look, I'm just happy to be here. Who is it? Brian who?

Heideck. Who's that? I think he played. Brian Heideck? Yeah, he played the pool guy in Melrose Place. It just reminds me a lot of that. Pool guy in Melrose Place? I feel like you're making this up.

Google it. Right, hi Nick. So is there anybody else you would put on the late bloomer list? Late bloomer list? Is there any hope for a healthy Orlando? So I had them mark down. They've been so, I mean they were six and 14 in their last 20.

So there's only a way to go six and 14 in their last 20. So there's only a, their offense in their last, their last month, they're the, they're the third or fourth worst offense in the NBA and boy, when it's bad on offense for the magic, I'm surprised it was that high that they were only 27. So the other three had Mark down. It's not going to be Detroit, even though there's a lot of good Detroit numbers for the last 20, 25 games. How many people do you think right now know what seed Detroit is?

Yeah. Not only is Detroit for the people listening, probably locked into the sixth seed. It's not like an easy series for the Knicks. Like they're going to be favored. I would pick the Knicks, but I don't know if that's like the easiest series possible for them. The other two teams I have Minnesota, just cause who knows 31 and 26, but maybe that maybe something is Randall playing. I'm out. Is that good or bad? If Randall's playing, you're out. Okay. And then, uh, the only other way, I mean, Dallas, I guess we have to watch, but the only other one I was thinking was the Clippers.

If, if there's like a long, healthy Kawhi stretch, a bug Donovich resurgence, um, they're really well coached like the Lakers and, um, you know, could, could something blossom with them in March? I wouldn't rule it out. You want to do a little Clippers profile or do you want to save it? We'll take a break. Yeah? Want to take a break? Yeah, let's take a break. Alright, more 30 games left subplots. So your pick would be the Lakers.

I think I agree with you, but I have Golden State a little closer to them than you do for a possible late bloomer. Anybody else? Well, I'm glad. I don't think we spent enough time on Minnesota because I think we did 10 seconds on it. And I know they lost in the Houston game. Uh, that was just kind of a frustrating game. They didn't have Rudy, but that, you know, sometimes is that play to their strength now when you look at some of the declining Rudy stuff, but then that also means Houston can go small.

Cause even Houston against Utah last night, they lost because they were just like Utah size bothered, bothered Houston. Um, and granted, Houston's kind of rotating some guys in and out, so they're not playing with like the full cast of guys. So look, sometimes you're just going to lose to Utah when George decides to go. All first team NBA, but let's just say, okay, open, like open to the idea. Like I feel a little bit better about Minnesota maybe than I did because in the beginning of the year, when it was frustrating, it was like this team's

healthy and these other teams are hurt and they're losing to these teams. Um, but there's just a Randall stretch here where it's like, man, this, they might just be better without this guy. And they haven't had D'Vincenzo for a month either. You're going to go might for that. They are. I just think they're unquestionably better when he's not out there for them.

I don't know. I've been watching basketball my whole life. It just, he screws up the spacing. He, he's might be a good player on other teams for that team. He does not make sense to me. He's good for 20, you know, and it's like, okay, but there's just a lot of other stuff that, that we'd need for him. So here's what I don't love with Minnesota.

Okay. Give it to me. As you know, I don't love with Minnesota. Okay. As you know, I'm, uh, I'm on the amp bandwagon. There's been a lot of really high volume field goal games for him that I can't really explain. Like even if you just go into the, in, in January and February this year, he had a 31 shot game, he had a 29 shot game, 25-28. Just the last two weeks, 28-25, 28-33, 18-32. I don't think they're winning three playoff rounds with that happening, would be my point. And I don't really know. I haven't watched enough Minnesota the last three weeks

to understand why that's happening. But it's just a lot of three, like he took 14 threes in a game. He took 15 threes in a game, 17 and 14. Just a lot. You know, and then I look at the free throws. Like in one game he had 28, they won by 19, he had 28 shots and 18 free throws,

25 shots and 15 free throws. It's just, it's a lot of ant. That's pretty easy to stop when you get to a playoff series. So I wish they had a lot, but I don't know if they have a lot of other choices. No, they've done a good job. Like Terrence Shannon's been playing well, Clark is some other young players coming in.

He's been good for him defensively and, um, yeah, like I'm not disagreeing with any of that stuff. I just think there's certain dudes that maybe I defend because I like them, but I think I like and dislike players for very valid reasons. And for the high volume stuff with him, I think it's just, and the ball just ends up back in his hands. Right. And, you know, he's getting trapped.

He's getting a ton of attention and it's up to you to figure all that stuff out. I mean, he had a play against Houston where he split the screen and it was. It was two defenders that came with him and he just split it in a way where I just couldn't believe and believe like it was physically possible. And then he almost throws it down from there. And so because he's capable of doing some of that stuff, I don't know that he wants to take those shots. Like some other players, like again,

you just go through the list of guys I don't necessarily like, I think they're totally fine being like, cool, I did a good job. You did a good job on the Lamello. On the Lamello usage rate, shot rate stuff. You talked about that in your pod a couple weeks ago. Yeah, per 100, he's taking the most shots.

It was like 2006 Kobe? Yeah, like we haven't seen somebody take that many shots per 100 possessions. That guy should be shots. It was like 2006 Kobe? Yeah, like we haven't seen somebody take that many shots per 100 possessions. That guy should be the All-Star game. Should he? Well, the other reason he got somebody All-Star votes is somebody pointed out to me after the fact,

and they're like, do you realize like if you, well, the voting was still open, but if you went to the voting tab, it was done by points per game. So he was like the first option when you went to the page to vote as a fan. So he just was there. fan. So he's popular. Yeah.

They have the top Instagram panels in the NBA. Him and Lonzo have two of the top five. It's awesome. For most, most, most viewers, like people, people like the balls. Um, well they're going to have a lot of lottery ones as well. Oh, before I switch topics, that Minnesota Houston game when Dylan Brooks was talking shit to aunt and they got into it a couple of times and then that game just got more and more competitive and heated and kept going and kept going is in the running for my favorite

game of the season. I love that game. But I knew like going into it, that was one of those deals where it's like, whatever I'm doing tonight, I'm watching Minnesota and Houston. I wonder, is Dylan Brooks, does he do that again, or is he like, all right, here's somebody

I shouldn't do that to again, or does he double down on it the next time they play? And what happens in a playoff series? Are you serious? Because he's definitely gonna do that. You think he doubled down. Do you remember him in that Lakers series? Where people thought his career was over?

But this is different though. Ant, Ant, this is different though with Ant. I actually think he might double down because he might think Ant might punch him in a series and then he would take Ant out of the series basically. Well he did it to LeBron in a way, but LeBron was just not gonna fall for it. But the thing that turned everybody off.

LeBron was way older and smarter. Right, and then Brooks couldn't make a shot was just not going to fall for it. But the thing that turned everybody off. Smarter. Right. And then Brooks couldn't make a shot and then he didn't do a media availability in his like, what nobody likes a better player now though, than he was in that Laker series, it was an awful Lakers. People were going, get ready to learn China buddy type of stuff. Yeah. I mean, he was a China meme dude.

And then all of a sudden he gets a huge contract from Houston and to Houston's credit, like they desperately need him. And, you know, what I liked about that game is this. A man Thompson progression is like nightly man. You have to watch him every night to see it. And, you know, you and I were talking about him. We did that pod for the trade value thing. I was like, yeah, doing this at the worst possible time because you're going to lose your shit about Thompson.

But I couldn't- I feel good about, I thought we were properly careful while also respecting the moment. Where was he again? He was like 19. Okay. And I had said something, and I remember I was pissed when we did it.

I wasn't like mad. I wasn't like mad the next day type of mad, but I was like, you know, are you still gonna run like pick and roll for him in a late possession? And you were like, well, they did on the game winner. And I was kind of like, I didn't want to get into it with you.

I was like, there's four seconds left. They inbounded it to him and he uses athleticism and he hits the game winner against Boston. The stuff he was doing against Minnesota They imbounded it to him and he uses athleticism and he hits the game winner against Boston. The stuff he was doing against Minnesota and even some stuff that I saw last night against Utah, like the drive and kick stuff that he's showing now. And there was a, like granted, we know he can't shoot yet, which is the funniest thing about how much we all love watching him play is like, you know, the joke is he's not even

good yet and it's this much fun, but he hit a shot because Utah just didn't respect him. He had a shot late last night where it was like, I'm catch and shoot three. Like I'm not even going to Dick around with this. Like I'm getting this shot up. I'm going to make you try to come out here a little bit more. There's more and more ball handling with him where they trust him, where these, there could be this amend Thompson reward of these van Vliet, these van Vliet minutes is as like disrupted as they could be,

because clearly they need him to organize them on offense, even though they have all these clutch wins, but all their clutch numbers stink, which is one of the weirdest profiles. Well then nobody can create a good shot. That's why with Thompson, it's like at least when he's driving to the basket, and he kind of doesn't know where he's

going or what's going to happen, but he always goes by whoever's guarding him. But he kind of does know that like there were these kickouts in that Minnesota game where it was a very clear, like when he takes off, he's going, if I don't have this, I know where to kick it out. And it's also just awesome having Jabari back as, you know, the stretch option because, you know, it gives you some more flexibility with Shingoon. Cause I'll admit there's some, as I can't say it,

some Shingoon nights where I'm like, what, what's up with him? Are you there at all with that? It just feels like he's, depending on the matchup, he's kind of one of those guys. Yeah. And Adams at this point is kind of, like do you know how old Steven Adams is? Isn't he like 28?

It's like some crazy number. Yeah, he's 31. Right. But he's been in the league for 25 years? Yeah, I don't think he should be this bad. So, haven't you already been actually important for them? So look, I mean, none of this was, that's one of those where they could have probably flipped Steven Adams and one

of the 90 picks they have to get Capella or somebody who could actually play a little bit more for them. I had them on my list for subplots for the last 30 games because they're three and eight in their last 11 18th and net they've dropped to 35 and 21 for the season and they are five seed right now but like if I'm golden state and I'm five losses back from them with a bunch of time left I feel like I can catch them because I thought Houston was overachieving with some of the stuff that was happening in them the first two months.

The league their conference is getting better Clippers are better the Lakers better the Warriors are better and I don't know if they're gonna stay in the top six. That would be my pick to drop out What do you think I was looking at some of that schedule stuff in the expanded schedule or if you look at games against teams? 500 or more which we've already gone through the record stuff But Denver's played 26 games against teams with that and yes, this played 35 So scheduling wise they've been a little unlucky. But then when you look at the remaining schedule stuff, I mean, it's the top three most difficult remaining schedules.

It's Phoenix, Denver, and LA. Houston's like down at 18. So it should, because of that number and the record I told you about, it should even out. Like I can't wait to see what LA does. Yeah. Torrey missed the game. So, you know,

I'm not putting a ton into the Utah loss. I put way more into the Minnesota win. Cause that's one of the subplots that's left is who are the 10 teams going to be? And more importantly, who are the playing teams going to be? And then how can you avoid that eight spot where you have to play OKC in round one, which would just suck no matter who you are. It does feel like Phoenix is gonna drop out and we should talk to them.

We'll talk about them, they're 27 and 29. They have three more wins than your Portland Trailblazers, your favorite team. They're sixth in that and they're last 15, they're 19th in that. I know you talked to Goldsberry about this in your pod on Friday, but I sat at that game with Goldsberry and the sons were absolutely alarming

in person. Give it to us, give it to us. There's no other word than. Body language, Bill. Oh my God, I mean we were pretty close to the bench so I could really watch it. They weren't talking to each other. You know, you judge certain things,

like how many guys get up after a big play on the bench? What are guys doing during timeouts? What happens when a star player walks by his coach? Does he acknowledge him? Does he talk to him? Does he just kind of stop by? Does the one of the star players yell at the coach? Well KD yelled at bud twice during that game There was near the end The one of my favorites is when one of the stars, there's somebody shooting free throws at the other end, and one of the stars moves to the furthest part of the court, away from everybody,

just to go sulk in the corner. That was KD near the end, because he was so mad the way they used him in that game, and the team played like crap. They were playing all the hits, and it is not a team that seemed very happy. And I don't know. I actually, we were talking and it was like, I don't think.

Bud was trying to get fired, but it was the kind of coaching where you were like, if that guy's trying to get fired out, point back to that game where it's like, you're just leaving Grayson Allen out there for the entire crush. Try and get killed by Darren Fox. It was, it was weird. It was a team that was not on the same page in any respect and seemed unhappy. That was my takeaway leaving for two and a half hours, an unhappy team.

Yeah, it's not Bud's fault that people can't come over to help on cuts. And Durant had a bunch of those. Swiping late, out of position. And if you don't believe me, I think Van Gundy was on the broadcast of that one too, being like, what? It was tough.

What are you doing? And Durant puts't believe me, I think Van Gundy was on the broadcast of that one too. Being like, what, what are you doing? And, you know, Durant puts up these numbers, but I mean, there's some stuff here. Um, and look, the worst thing Durant did was tweet that the NHL has loyalty and doesn't trade his players, which is still one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen. Did he do that? When was that? Yeah. It was during the whole stretch where it's like, why don't you watch something else?

And you're like, all don't you watch something else? And you're like, all right, dude. Yeah, not great. When you look at their whole thing here, I don't know, rebound is usually a number where you see rebounding decline, it kind of speaks to effort and all that kind of stuff. I mean, he's under five rebounds a game in February.

The crazy thing is, some of the other numbers are nuts because the guy can't miss a shot in February. The crazy thing is like some of the other numbers are nuts because the guy can't miss a shot right now. The shooting spots are incredible. Free throw attempts are down the last couple of months. So, you know, I don't know if this is, hey, this is part of this little decline here with him, but like he still gets his numbers

because the guy is so brilliant offensively. But like, you know, it's kind of up to you, man. It's kind of up to you to be a part of the solution here. And they've tried some different things and they're just not very good. Even when they're, you know, what they unfortunately tried to do is they tried to trade him and didn't tell him. And I think that was the death knell. Cause yeah, but I don't think he's wanted to be there, man,

going back to last summer. You think that this whole season, you don't think he wanted to be there? No, I don't think, I think there was pretty strong indications that if he could have gotten his preference to go somewhere else this summer, he would have done it. Interesting. You don't think so?

You didn't hear any of this? I don't know. Well, I never know what to believe with Durant stuff, but I had always heard that he likes Phoenix. But I think it was a pretty unusual move by them to shop him around quietly with the don't tell anyone in a league where somebody's immediately gonna tell somebody, and that's how they found out.

I just thought that was the kind of thing you do when you're trying to burn the relationship. Bro, Luke had never found out. Listen, I, Tess I test while I've been watching Theran his whole career. He's at a slightly different point in his career physically. You can see it. He's as amazing as he is and we've never seen a guy with that kind of size and shooting and athleticism.

He's a little bit creakier than he used to be. You can see it when you watch it. And it makes sense because he's been in the league since 2007. Like this is, this is how it goes. I just, I don't really enjoy them. I like, I looked at it last year. Remember we kept waiting. Hey, I don't care about any of the stats and the fourth quarter stuff didn't make any sense. It was so bad.

It had to be an anomaly and that part of it's been fixed a little bit, but even with last year's injuries and guys missing games, they were 38 and 28 through 56. They're 27 and 29 now after an eight and one star, their bottom third in offense and defense the last month. Katie's only missed 13. Booker's only missed three. The Beale bench thing. It doesn't matter.

Cause I don't think that dude cares at all. I really, I just don't. So they're just, they needed those three guys to be just top level, not to sound like a soccer analyst. And they rarely gotten that. The Beale thing was interesting to watch in person because he was in a funk to start the game and wasn't really trying hard.

And then there was a moment where you could almost see him be like, oh shit, this is on TV, and there's fans. And then he started trying harder. But you know, it's an unhappy team. I will promise you that that team does not make the playoffs. There's no solution for whatever is wrong with them. And I don't, you know, it's, it's probably the all time new owner syndrome example we're going to have other than Prokhorov, which I think is number one.

Although Dallas in the running. Fair. Fair. I still think it's unbelievable. Like I've done this assignment. If you go through every ownership transition, the new owners fuck up so bad within the first 12 to 18 months. Like even Cuban, when he brought it in, and I never forget him being on with Dan Patrick

talking about acquiring Ralph LaFrance. And I remember thinking like, what the hell is he doing? And then Cuban just so good after 10 minutes of Dan Patrick, I was like, oh, I guess getting Ralph LaFrance is a good idea. Well, think about it. If we bought the Pelicans, would we just keep the roster intact for a year or would we just be going out to dinner every night trying to figure out what our first trade was going to be? I feel like that would be the latter.

I would be so determined if I owned a team to not screw up in the first 18 months, I would just be like say no to everything. So I think Prokhorov was worse than the Luka trade and here's why. Because the Luka trade, as ridiculous and absurd as it was, and it's going to go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the league and maybe in the history of sports. So putting that aside, at least there was a strategy in place that I genuinely think they believed the strategy was insane.

It makes no sense. It made no sense when it happened. It's indefensible. But they had a plan and a strategy. Prokhorov, his plan was let's spend as much money as possible and do whatever it takes. I don't care about picks. Let's keep going, going, going, going.

And then it didn't work for a year and he was like, I'm out. No more money. I'm not spending anything. He just zagged the other way, but now they had no more pick slap. I just don't feel like anyone's ever gonna top that. Two strategies, that one was worse than the other and in the span of two years,

and he just demolished basketball at Brooklyn for no reason. Well, the fact that he changed course so quickly after he'd already started like, you know, it's like digging a hole for a house and going, you know what? It should be over here now. You can't. I mean, even then eventually you'd have a house at the end of it.

So digging a hole for a street. It wasn't even one house. It was like nine houses. Which way do you want these highways going? North south? I didn't realize the sun came that way. I'm out. Let's not do this.

Just spell the lots. Yeah. But the problem is there's no single piece that's as damp. I mean, I guess you could get into the Tatum and the draft picks and all that kind of stuff. But they weren't, like Tatum wasn't playing for that franchise and having everybody fall in love

with them over the course of seven years The way like the reaction like I saw a quote the other day on the lucret trade where somebody had said we had underestimated the reaction to this multiple people said that What did you think was gonna happen? And it just sucks even worse because ad gets heard immediately But the other thing that I love too about this, and I'm going to make this joke throughout the rest of my career is this stupid fucking timeline people do and talk about and how married they are to the age timeline of NBA rosters. Like we need somebody on this timeline.

It's like, so if Cooper flag, if you had like the number one pick, would he be too young to put with Kyrie and AD now? Like he's not on our timeline. He's only a team. Yeah. Right. It's like, so if Cooper flag, if you had like the number one pick, would he be too young to put with Kyrie and AD now? Like he's not on our timeline. Yeah. Right. Like as if every rebuilding team, everybody has to be between 18 and 22. And then any team that's like going for championships, like this guy's 25 and good, what the fuck are you guys doing? It's way too much of a gap with the rest of our timeline and all this stuff.

So. Also the iconic, um, part of the reason you're getting rid of Luca, cause he's not a safe enough risk physically and his devotion to the game. And then you trade for Davis who gets hurt an hour into his first game. Like you. I thought you nailed it when you were tweeting out about that really good feature with, um, the owner who's, what is he the son in law? Married into the fan., is it Dumont?

This is your dream. This is what I want to happen to you. You marry into the rich family that's thinking about getting into professional basketball. This is it, this is the path. No, I like, I go on Instagram and constantly like single daughters of NFL ownership, their pictures. I'm like, oh, I wanna, you know, nothing creepy, just really tasteful stuff.

Be like, Oh, it's such a great sweater. You know, but that party looks awesome. Yeah. Oh, my God. You guys, that's so great. Did you guys reach out to the community like that? Keep, keep doing you. Uh, he, he went through all of these players, like clearly like Nico had gotten to Patrick.

It was like basically to be on brand here. The messaging should be like, we here at the Dallas Mavericks want people that are fully committed. And clearly like, look, it's no secret on the Luca thing. He wasn't committed enough. I'm not going to make the argument that he was and was misunderstood, but you can't then run through all the list of players to be like, you know, Kobe and Shaq when Shaq himself would admit that I could have done a better job. And that was the whole reason of the Kobe Shaq divorce is that Kobe, you know, Phil's line to him being like, your 10 is unattainable for everybody else.

Your 10 is their seven and they don't understand that there's a higher number. That's your gift. That's what makes you you. So holding everybody else to that standard is completely pointless. All you're going to be doing is wasting your time. So getting on Shaq's case because he's not going to approach the off season the way you are, that's unsolvable, man. And so when he went through the list of players that he admired because of their

work ethic and their conditioning and all that stuff, and as much as we all love Shaq, he'd be the first to admit that he didn't take it serious enough while he played. So it was an awful quote. He wouldn't have been in my top 700 to list for that. I remember when John Walsh sat me down and told me that my 10 was everyone else's seven.

What did you say? Thanks, John. Thanks for just to relax on everybody on Grayling. Did he? Did he say that to you? No, he didn't. What did he say to you? What's the most meaningful thing that he ever said to you?

Most meaningful thing John Walsh ever said to me. To care about the relationships with the people you have professionally, because those are things going to last after you do whatever you're doing professionally, which I think took me a long time to realize. Yeah. I didn't realize that until recently and he didn't say he recommended game change the book, which I did enjoy that summer.

It's a good one. It's a good book. Um, more storylines for you. I almost don't want to get to Philly. I feel like Philly is like the... Let me ask you then. Let me ask you a Philly question off of what we just did. No, but I want to almost save Philly.

Philly is like the fucking huge dessert we have coming out that's got like the table where the guy's going to do like a baked Alaska. Like that's how much excited I have. Talk about does anyone actually make a bake? I've never even seen one. It's referenced. It's the most referenced food item that I don't even think exists. Never seen it on a menu. I've never seen a presentation. I've never seen anybody order one. I think it's fake.

I think I've had it like once in my life. Philly is 20 and 36. They have the sixth worst record in the league. They've lost seven straight and they owe a top six picks to OKC. And now they're in the zone where it's like, should we just fucking, should we tank it? What do we do? And it's funny, I wrote down, could this hit mid 2010 Brooklyn proportions for them? Where I was thinking of like the the single weakest situations we've seen in the NBA

and I think the the bleakest they can get and I've certainly rooted for Celtics teams that had pieces of it like that when the vin baker trade when it was became clear that There was no way of getting out of his contract And you just start looking ahead and you're like, wow, this is, so we're going to have this for three more years and we're just fucked. And you, that slow realization comes in and I think it's hitting some of the Sixers fans with the, with the George and bead money. So you have that on top of, you might give the seventh pick in the draft to okay, see you might not even get a draft pick out of this season If you can't land the plane on this lottery, what would you do? I would tank.

So you're shutting everybody down. Yeah. There's no point. Why, why is this NBA thing going to look better this year? It's not, it's not going to look better tomorrow. And then Paul George is like, yeah, my finger, I'm taking shots. It's like, well, why can't you move? Why do you seem slow half the time?

But are there other injuries you have that you're not telling us about? Um, if I was CEO of a company and I wanted to short my own stock, but I couldn't just say it outright, I would hire Paul George to run PR. What are they doing over there? We do feel like we went strongly enough on us being concerned from the moment they did that contract to the start of the season, because I feel like we, both of us danced around, including a combos with each other recorded Where I was trying to be diplomatic but deep down in my soul

I just felt like this was a bad fit and it's been way worse than I thought See the problem with it was is that on one hand you have Darrell Pulling a rabbit out of his hat in a way that very few GM's can you know Whether it's having a top five player in the world when he's healthy and in bead, because that's what he was. I mean, but you know, even if you don't like them now, and I don't like them now. Um, you have a guy who's going to make multiple all-star teams, most likely in maxi, you hit what 21st pick and then all these other little things and you delay

the maxi extension, you figure out a way to move hard and out because you knew after that playoff series, it's like, I don't really want to extend this guy to whatever was talked about and how many different versions of that story you've heard. And then you have this cap space that almost never works out for anybody. And then you have this rare instance where the,

um, you know, in this case, the Clippers, the incumbent team, right? Decide they're okay losing the asset for nothing and not giving this player who's all NBA level a fourth year. Right? Like everybody just gives them the fourth year. Like, why are you not giving them the fourth year? So you have this one team that's deciding to not give the fourth year. And it's not like they weren't going to pay him a ton of money in the three years, but

they're not going to give him the fourth year. Like who cares? Just do the fourth year. You figure it out later. It's better than just letting him walk and they let him walk. So now you can use this cap space on a guy who in theory is all NBA, even if we would say that he feels like with all of his talent, like at the end of it, Paul George is probably going to be kind of a disappointing player for his, for his career. And now he's even worse. Like when they've needed him, when other guys have

been out and you've needed him to be this alpha, he's just incapable of it. And then on top, so like it's all of this credit on top of, to your point, like is George personality wise, the guy that fits into Philadelphia knowing what the standard is and knowing what the expectations are. and it's been Is it more disappointing than phoenix? Well I'm personally more disappointing because we had phoenix in that big super boost which I haven't lost all decade So that was kind of like like all of us were aligned on we think phoenix is going to be really good

I can't wait to watch this offense And they've all been healthy, which is the weird part So that was kind of like, like all of us were aligned on, we think Phoenix is going to be really good. I can't wait to watch this offense and they've all been healthy, which is the weird part. So, I mean, to me, that's almost more surprising. I can't say I'm, I can't say I'm surprised that Embiid broke down and that Paul George looks a little long in the tooth. What's surprising to me is how miserable everybody seems. Um, and the fact that there's no outs, like to go 20 and 36 is really hard. The surprise in me is how miserable everybody seems.

And the fact that there's no outs. Like to go 20 and 36 is really hard, right? That's a bad record. Now you're on pace for, what's that, like 27 and 55? Like you're just, there's a reason they're in this standing. Can I push back on one Paul George thing now? Yep. Cause you said ultimately you're gonna remember him as like kind of disappointing.

I think he's exactly, it was exactly the best version of whatever career we ever would have thought it was gonna be. I don't, like he made conference finals a couple times. He had that one nice playoff series with the Clippers after Kawhi left. He also had a couple where he wasn't that great. I would still take him over Vince Carter and Carmelo

and people like that from a success standpoint. You'd take him over Mello? I wouldn't take him as a player from like, I have Mello ranked in the top 75, but I'm just saying his achievements. I think he's achieved more than Carmelo did as a player. He made it further in the playoffs twice, or three times. He was in the conference finals three times,

and he was second team all NBA. If Mello had been in the East, I think he probably, if you go through all the Mello playoffs stuff, for the most part, every time he lost to a team, it was a team they were supposed to lose to I've heard that argument But it doesn't explain Oh nine when I felt like they pretty easily could have beaten the Lakers And I don't feel like he had a good enough series personally that's fine in that series All right, you got me on the one

2019 first team on Bay. I don't know. I think you said if you're gonna compare him versus Carmelo and I was a Carmelo defender forever But I also feel like now Carmelo has become a little overrated in retirement Which I think happens depending on if you have a podcast after retirement or not I don't know. We were there for the Carmelo thing. He's an incredible scorer But the Denver years pretty much all the way through until 2009 were disappointing, right? Then pushing his way to the Knicks and making them basically trade all these assets

that actually could help him if he stayed. I think that he gets dinged on that. Yeah, there's nothing, he doesn't even have a moment. That used to be my Vince Carter argument was like, where's the playoff moment is for the longest time. And I know you'll be right down the middle on this one. Like people were actually trying to argue like Paul Pierce against Vince Carter before the Oh way title.

And you would just go, come on, you know, this is, there's a, there's a level to like, you've got to have some kind of playoff moment and for Vince for the longest time, like he didn't have anything. I mean, it might've taken all the way until like he hit a corner three for Dallas. So maybe it's just cause Paul George at one point was in this conversation of like, could this guy be the best player in the league? And, you know, I guess you could do the same thing with Mello because early on that's kind of how you looked at Mello.

And then the playoff part of it, I can't sit here and defend it because it's generally really disappointing, but I think for George and some of those Pacers years, you were like, is this guy? And then it took forever for him to have like a playoff series. You felt like you could trust him. Yeah. That was like hard nest, you know, for him, it was like, what is going on? And then they had, they had lost Kawhi. They had that Utah series or Utah, I think had that really good record

and that two year window. They had, you know, they kind of got Gobert really good record in that two year window. They ended up beating him. You know, they kind of got Gobert stuck in the spot where he's trying to defend everybody. So he was really, really good. It was like, okay, well that's like, finally, like there's something there to kind of point to there a little bit, but he just needs to be, I mean, we're back to the beginning of this whole thing. He is incredibly disappointed. Like he's so bad right now that I can't believe he's doing podcasts. You would tell him, take a break.

I would just be so embarrassed. Paul's going to be taking a month off. Obviously that's not going to happen, but I would be embarrassed. Being a dude who comes in with the four year max and like, Hey, we need you to be the guy throughout all this and beat stuff, you know, and Max, these numbers aren't as good because I think Maxie was pressing and trying to go like, hey, we need you to be the guy throughout all this Embiid stuff, you know? And Maxi's numbers aren't as good, because I think Maxi was pressing and trying to go like, all right, I guess I'm gonna take 25 shots and I have to raise the risk of like,

what some of my shots are here. Is there any part of this that you would disagree with? Because I'm, even if he's older and all this different stuff, like, man, year one, this is what it looks like? It's just so frustrating. Well, what would scare me for our affiliate fans is we've seen this with other players that all of a sudden we're at a different level and you know,

right away, like I always remember she made an O'Neal and Germania and I had those two years through, he's getting traded around and people are still acting like he was 24 and 10 Germania and just wasn't anymore. Usually when the stats dropped this dramatically, they don't come back. That's, that's what we've learned. You can go on basketball reference. You can look at any of these guys. There's some sort of level, especially if it's second after your career,

when your stats go from like here to here, and that's just who you become. And we think it's coming back and it just never does. Um, I'm still going to defend Paul George's 2019. And that's just who you become and we think it's coming back and it just never does I'm still gonna defend Paul George's 2019 I feel like that was a really good year start to it was even like that Phoenix series like he was Kind of carrying them. It was like he had kind of reached his the 2019 no Casey year was good and then that quit well, and I don't know what it was for Carmelo, what is it? The 2013 next season, right, the regular season. Yeah, but you know what, dude, I'm sorry.

I actually am gonna re-push back on your pushback. It's a double pushback? Yeah, right. Because if you look at the Thunder during those post-Durant seasons, okay, they're getting blasted out in the first round. They lost to Portland in five games the year he was third in MVP voting. You know, and he has one of those horrible, horrible game sevens where

you don't even notice that he's out there. And like, look, we joke, we've made this joke before, you know, it's a really simple test, like, do I forget you're out on the court, Paul George should never be somebody with his skills, with that that contract with Philly's injuries this year Where you forget that he's on the court in the fourth quarter and it happens all the time It would be a fun podcast just to discuss Paul George's career for two hours There's a lot of ups and downs because the bubble was really bad. The year after was really great You could go over the map of it. Um

Couple more storylines quickly. Let me just finish this Clippers point though. Oh, please do. Because, you know, their defensive profile is incredible. Lawrence Frank in this front office, they deserve all the credit in the world for doing something that I just don't think a lot of teams would have done. Most teams would have given Paul George the fourth year. And to your point, like maybe that tells you something if they were so adamant of not doing it, but then again, it's like, well, it wasn't like he was going to play for free on the other three years.

But I just laugh when I think about the Clippers transactions this year, because it's almost like, Hey, who are all the players or Silla doesn't like? Let's bring them in. Uh, the hardened one they need, they need his usage, the highest usage that we've seen from him in five years. But it's not just that. I mean, they have brought in Kevin Porter Jr. who they moved on from who, you know, you want to talk about playing your own game

when you're out there on top of all the other shit you can get into with him. Um, bones who couldn't make it work with Jokic. Like if there's like, Hey man, all you had to do was cut. All you had to do was cut and you would have gotten second contract. It would have worked out. Um, and a ring. Mo Bamba who is going to just forever trick teams. They brought in Kai Jones.

Okay. And then they were like, while we're at it, let's add Ben Simmons. This is an absolute anti-Risillo heater of roster movement and they're, and they're pretty good. I kind of like the Ben Simmons move. Oh, do you? I didn't mind it. Paying nothing for him. He costs like five bucks. And they're pretty good. I kind of like the Ben Simmons move. Oh, do you? I didn't mind it. Paying nothing for him.

He costs like five bucks. I'm okay with it. I tell you, that guy is like, all right, this Brooklyn thing's over. And then, you know, I just love that it was actually like a story of like, ooh, we're on Ben Simmons buyout watch. And it's like, of course he gets to go to LA.

Of course he does. Good for him. It's a nice team for him. Hey Ben, just play some defensive, bring the ball up for us. Can you do that? Occasionally do the thing where you drive really hard and then kick it back out to somebody. So we need from you, grab some rebounds. And if you want to make, if you want to make all your off season videos, make

them. I, if I'm paying Ben Simmons the minimum, I'm okay with it. If I'm paying $43 million a year for him, not as okay. Some quick storylines quickly. Is John Moran ever going to be John Moran again? Awesome question. Awesome question. Uh, yeah, he's still young enough, but I've been worried this year.

You 34 games. He's missed 22. He's averaging 20 a game, 30% from three free throw attempts down to 5.9. Um, they're 23, 11 with him 14 and eight without him. And there's moments and flashes, but I was kind of expecting more from this season. We'll see. Maybe this, this is why maybe Memphis could be the late bloomer, even though they have a good record, could he just go on a heater the next 20 games and look

like Jagan, but it's, it's not the guy from three years ago, I'll tell you that much, at least not yet. No, it isn't. And I do wonder if it's kind of like the, the disruptive pattern for him. Like, Hey, he's back. He's not back, but I know they'll rest him sometimes in there as well. It just, it feels like a 25. Like, I'm not there yet.

But watching it. Yeah, be good for four weeks in a row. With you. Yeah. Put up like a 28 and 10 for a month. So I'm watching that, and it's hard to take Mimpus seriously not knowing what we're getting from that dude. Even though I love, like Jaren Jackson, I think think has been one of the big winners of the season.

Um, I thought he went up a level. It's noticeable. He's going to, he's an NBA guy for me right now. Um, John was really going to get to Orlando because Orlando never changed the defense the entire time. So that was good. Cleveland versus OKC for home court, 46 and 10 versus 45 and 10, taping it before both of their games today. But I think that's the storyline at some point because one of those teams could get a game seven.

And those are the only two teams left. Same thing for MVP where it's SGA versus York, it seems like SGA is kind of got it locked up. It's minus 500. It would take a lot at this point. Next one. This is specifically for you. Can the Pistons, how frisky can we get?

How much friskiness should I be prepared for? Do I need to put on a frisky jacket to combat their friskiness? Right now. Are you suggesting a seasonal friskiness update ranking? What do you think their record is in their last 28 games? Last 28? I'll say 18 and 10. 19 and nine.

Last 20 games, their seventh in net. Cade Cunningham, your guy, you never gave up on him. You owned the most amount of stock. You were just buying other people's stock when they were down and He's averaging 25 and 9 and has if we kept track of who is the best player in that game as an award I feel like he would have about 25 of them 20 of them 19 of them 22 somewhere in there But he's been awesome and they can rebound and they're tough. That's what I like. They're tough.

It's a tough, like kind of, it's a veteran team and with some wild cards, beef stews out there. There's some elbows. They'll fucking go. Did you see that Duran dunk the other night? What was it? Just, he almost got like horizontal to the ground, like at rim level.

I don't know what was going on. Cause I was watching, I forget what show I watched again, sports consultants available per DM, I guess you should say pro rata, but, um, there was a show the other day I was watching where they were showing like something from track and field, like there was a track and field meet and they were showing the high jumper

and he was like jumping over the thing where he would, like there was no Fosbury flop. He just jumped over it. Oh my God, really? Yeah. So there was no one apparently on the set that would have been like, Hey, you realize no one

would ever do a high jump this way. Yeah. And they didn't do it. And if you had Dern out there, he'd be like, this is how you do it. Cause it looked like he was trying to high jump the rim when he hit this dunk. I'm so happy. I think scholars will look back at the Zach cram, Cade Cunningham tablets as the

turning point of his career. Cause Zach did a piece that was like lit them up. Like, Hey, this is who this dude is. An incredibly high volume, inefficient dude who may not have like one go-to thing that's all that great. And it feels like from that point on, he became the player we all thought he could be. incredibly high volume, inefficient dude who may not have like one go-to thing that's all that great. And it feels like from that point on, he became the player we all thought he could be.

So I think the tablets will be a turning point on his. Interesting. Maybe he'll get invited to the hall of fame. The, when Cade goes. Uh, I actually was, I've been sketching out all NBA every week, just for as an exercise, good for you getting those reps in when no one's looking. Just part of the pod process. I have Cade.

I think, I think there's a real case for him for second team all NBA right now. Who are your four guards? Well, you figure Mitchell, like SGA Mitchell, our first team and Brunson is going to be second team. And if you're going to, if you're going to go at least a little traditional and say, I want to put a guard as my fourth, you know, basically the fourth guard and second team on BA, it's between him and Edwards. And I think that's really it.

What about Kyrie? Kyrie's in there and Curry's in there. If you're betting on the Curry bump. I had Kyrie and Curry and Edwards all 13, but I mean, it's all like, I didn't really, I spent five minutes on it, but I was just, I was like, hmm, I wonder where Cade is. And Cade to me, with what he's done with Detroit,

they lose Ivy and they somehow keep going and how hard he plays every night. I'd have trouble leaving him off second team right now. It's him or Edwards. And you can talk me into Edwards because of the defense. And, but you know, they have the same teams have the same record and you could say Edwards has more talent. So at least it's a good argument.

So anyway, um, Kato would have on there. So the reason I wanted to mention them though, is because I think they're going to be kind of a bitch in the playoffs. Just for one round. I don't necessarily think they're going to beat the Knicks. I just think they're going to be really physical, super excited to be there. And they have a really good guy at the end of these games who's not afraid of whoever the best guy on the other team is.

And it's an unusual sixth seed for a conference that I think is pretty awful. Once you get past the first four. It's amazing what shooting can do when you have, uh, like a guy's going to have the ball in his hands as much as Kate, because I've watched an Orlando game recently and we all have Palo, I think that established. And whenever I watch him, I just think of like, there's just not enough spacing because Suggs is out.

Right. This is too hard. It's like, if there was ever a team that would love a prime stretch five per Zingas to balance out all the other stuff the guys could do, and it's not like they had this massive overhaul this off season because all the young assets essentially are still there. Although Killian, how about his possessions in passing the other night? Was KFC wrong or just early? Some are asking.

KFC still, he never gave up a stock. He's still holding on. Killian back in the league. Just the simplicity of a little bit more spacing. You know, it's what every team, maybe there's just not enough shooting to go around, but every team should aspire to do that because it's just different. Your job is different now as his primary ball handler, when there's just some people that you have to worry about.

And look, last night's Denver game is a perfect example. The Lakers did not worry about any of those other guys all night. So a couple more subplots and then we'll go. I mentioned the NBA battles. Hmm. So a couple more subplots and then we'll go. I mentioned the LNBA battles. What's weird is the top five seem like they're locked in unless a Mitchell Brunson development can happen, but I don't know how Mitchell's, if Cleveland's going to have the best record in the East and maybe the best record in the league, he's probably going to be first team anyway, worst rookie of the year

race in a while, castles, Castles minus 175 on Fandl. It doesn't even start for the, I went to the game Thursday, I didn't start. Um, 10th playoff spot, Russian roulette in the East, Orlando seven, Miami eight, a game and a half back, Atlanta nine at 26 and 30, and then you have three teams that legitimately don't want to even make the playing game. Chicago at 10, 22 and 34, Philly 20 and 36 now,

or 35, and then Brooklyn 20 and 35. Chicago, Philly, and Brooklyn, I don't think want to be in the playoffs. Maybe Philly's just gonna have to stumble into it. You realize though, this top, they have the sixth worst record right now. Imagine if they tank and they end up with the seventh pick and it goes to OKC.

Which is almost what happened at Dallas that year and then Dallas ended up keeping the pick and getting lively. Remember they were right on the edge. Yeah and everybody lost their minds because they didn't wanna be a 10 seed when it was like actually smart for the game. I was one of them, right here. Yeah, I'm looking right at you.

I was talking about you. Right here, right here. Who know, yeah. Right here. I'm looking right at you. I was talking about you. Right here, right here. Who gives a shit? Do you still bother? Do you ever drive around? Are you going down Sunset? You're like, I'll tell you what though,

fucking Mavs a couple years ago. Have you done it zero times? I still stand by my foundation. You know what, I look back at my playbook and the thought process was you have Luca Dacic, you always have a chance if that guy's in your team. The next year they made the finals. Was I wrong? I think the criticism was outsized for what they actually were doing.

I have no idea who's gonna be the tenth seed and what'll be funny is if it ends up being Chicago, which I think would be the team I would bet on out of those three. Chicago, a team that openly tried to sabotage their own team at the trade deadline and, uh, and still might make the playoffs. So you have that, then you have tank a Palooza, the Cooper flag stuff's heating up. Washington has a four, four win lead over everyone else. They have nine wins.

New Orleans, Utah, Charlotte, Toronto, Philly is our, our top six. And Utah's hilarious because every once in a while they look really good. Like I watched some of the Houston game, and Houston was really trying to win, and Utah's like, nah, we're gonna do this, and watch this, and then we'll do this, and they just look really competent from time to time,

and I don't know how they're gonna fuck up, but they seem pretty happy where they are. Or then they'll run a play where Kiantae George in that Lakers game that I was at. I almost tweeted it out. Like, will you remember where you were when they came out of a timeout and Kionte George threw up a left-handed floater in the lane? I think it was actually a left-handed jumper. Maybe it wasn't out of a timeout.

There was another play out of a timeout where I think they turned the ball over immediately. They have a lot of on-ball guys with confidence, I will say that, about the Utah Jazz. But who do you want to have win? If you could go right now, win. Cause I mean, if you think scoot and Cooper flag the next 10 years over under three and a half titles. Trying to think how many did the mid eighties Lakers when they won five. Nine finals in 12 years

Listen if this season if any great thing happened through 50 games other than Dallas making the dumbest trade I've ever seen We might be alive with scoot. We haven't talked about this on a pod. We might be alive We might be a there's it's still breathing. There's enough there and he's young enough that I feel okay. This isn't like where I was mentally, you know, a month and a half ago with this where it felt like a sunk cost. Now I'm, you know, he's gotten better. He's getting so big.

Last thing, and Dallas got killed as we were taping this to go on state, but they're not getting their bigs back until the first week of March. Where do you have them in your head? Because that's another solo plot for the last 30 games. I'll probably like them better than the Clippers. I might even like them better than Houston.

Here's the thing. I liked them. I liked the healthy them. I thought they were better this year before all this trade stuff. Like they were always a team that I had to say, don't, don't lose sight of them with all of this Lucas stuff. Like I think Denver paid this weird Aaron Gordon price where people were looking

at what they were doing or what they weren't doing. And you go, I don't really care. Like if Aaron Gordon is going to miss this many games, he's so important to what they do, let's see what they look like when they get him back and clearly Lucas even beyond that and 80s even beyond that for Aaron Gordon on that part of it. So I, I think you still have to keep it open for them, even though, I mean, imagine having three centers like this that you would feel so good about,

and none of them are playing. Well, the good news for them, it looks like they're gonna keep the 10 seed no matter what happens, unless Phoenix gets their shit together, which I don't think will happen. And I didn't make Wemby a subplot because we already know how that's gonna play out.

It's such a bummer. I thought San Antonio was kind of lurking as a party crasher for maybe a nine or a 10 seed, but now that one shot and they're gonna sink back. And the Wemby thing is a bummer. We don't, there's really not a lot to say about that one. So if I had to bet, so Sacramento you would have as a 10 seed 30 games left. Is there anything you've seen from Sacramento that got you excited

since all the trades? Um, I don't, I don't think it's going to be, you think it's going to be San Antonio in the 10? No, I think San Antonio is out. I have Phoenix and San Antonio out and I have Sacramento as the 10. I think that's how that plays out. And maybe Dallas passes them and becomes the 10 and Sacramento's not, but I think that's something,

it looks something like that. I think it's Sacramento. I mean, at least with Sacramento, I kind of know what I'm getting. You know, I know it has to be crazy. You can see Sabonis and Valenshinis back for you? I've loved it. You said you see those guys? I know you watch a lot of Lithuanian Olympic tape All right. Any other subplots before we go that you care about?

No I care about you sending me a deep dive thing that you've been just YouTube in and out like a high school kid with no Friends when did that really quick? I do because I have one for you because you gave me the assignment might'll be quick But I know you really want to do this to go for it No, I asked because I have one for you because you gave me the assignment mine will be quick But I know you really want to do this to go for it No, I asked you I said We should talk at the end of the pod or near the end of the pod every Sunday About one rabbit hole we fell into over the course of the week because I think we both fall into rabbit holes either a book rabbit hole or

some sort of YouTube or somebody sends you a Video and you're like, what's that? And then you're watching seven of them or some sort of YouTube or somebody sends you a video and you're like, what's that? And then you're watching seven of them. I really want to talk about this Lorne Michaels book I was reading, but we don't have to do that today. So somebody sent me a Reddit thread about the Silver Springs performance

by Fleetwood Mac in 1997 in the dance. I don't know if you're familiar with this. I'm not. I mean, look, who doesn't love a little Fleetwood Mac in the background, but go for it. Well, so this is why the deep dive's so much fun. So, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, they're together as a band in the early 70s,

and then they end up joining Fleetwood Mac, right, both of them together and they're dating and they're in a hot relationship and they write the first album they're together. Rumors, the most famous album they made, they broke up as they're making that album and then a couple other people in the band broke up too. Basically everybody in the band's breaking up

with somebody they're dating in the band and that's what album that comes. So they cut out Silver Springs, which is this song she wrote about Lindsay Buckingham. And they cut it out of rumors. It's a great song. They put it on the B-side instead, and it becomes one of the biggest albums ever,

but Silver Springs is the B-side. And she's mad about it forever, because it's one of her best songs. So when they do the dance, now they've broken up, Lindsay's with somebody and they go on stage and they do this and they rehearse it and she's playing it the same.

But then when they do it for the actual concert film and the album, she really gets into it and starts like kind of staring him, giving him some side-eye stares as she's doing it, all performative. I think I've seen this. It's one of the best clips on YouTube is Stevie Nicks by the last like minute and a half of the song and he's just playing and now she's like turning over and walking toward him. And she's now like, and her eyes are starting to bulge out and she's like, you'll never forget, I forget the lyrics,

the voice of the woman that haunts you. And she's just like yelling it out. And he's just like, all right, cool. And he's just playing the guitar. And then she- That must've made him want to get back together. Well, and then at the end, she's the lyrics in the song are you'll never get away from the voice of the woman that loves you.

And she's like, you'll never get away. You'll never get away. And she's like, and it's a thing and it's become an ever since YouTube popped up, it's become a thing. So then there's all these theories about the performance, how much of it was performative,

how much it was a stage. This Reddit thread that I got sent was about how they're preparing to do this comeback thing, and they might've gotten involved a little bit again, because they have these different interviews where they're talking about what a good place they're in, and they have interviews together where they seem a little lovey-dovey and maybe

Maybe some sparks will fly. Maybe not But then by the time they do the dance It's clear to her that she that he's With somebody else like for whatever because here's the piece he has a kid the next summer So this is what the threat that's evidence. That's usually good evidence. Yeah. With somebody else, by the time they do this performance, he probably knew they're having the kid. And this was when it maybe died for Lindsay. So the theory was for Stevie.

So the theory was when she's singing this, it's like within a few weeks of, after she found out, maybe they don't have a chance to get back together, and she's pouring it on in the thing. But it's a legendary YouTube clip. Anyway, I read, I spent an hour and a half reading everything I could read about this on the internet yesterday at 2.30 in the morning Boston time. I think that's time well spent.

Thank you. That's good, because I'll get into a band, whether it's new or something I want to revisit, and I'll be like, all right, I'm going to read about Dwayne Allman for an hour. So I actually do kind of like this stuff. It's the 70s music stuff. Everybody's got a story that is

with at least worth an hour of your time that goes in a bunch of different directions. The other thing I found out was there's a 1977 performance of Silver Springs, because people thought they never really played it that much, that's on YouTube in black and white of an original performance of her right after they broke up singing it,

so I watched that too. Anyway, because I'll go through some talking heads phases. I love them, and I like them so much that, again, I'm not gonna get to experience it the way people get to experience when it first happened, but I always think like I'm having Les Claypool of Primus on at some point here soon, who's generally considered one of the best bass players of all time.

And in the beginning with Primus, you were just like, what the fuck is this? And I'm, I'm so fascinated to think of like what it was like when Les Claypool is like, well, I want to make the bass, the feature thing, and I'm going to sing these songs and they're going to be a little different. And my voice is probably not the most traditional rock star kind of voice.

But then once you kind of buy into the whole thing, you just appreciate how great the music is and how great he is. But I can't imagine how people told him in the beginning, like, are you kidding? This isn't going to work. And when I think about the talking heads, like I just imagine, was New York so cool.

Cause I read that, please kill me punk book about just punk in New York City. Yeah. And I, I'm glad I read it. And I'm also like, it was so disgusting that I couldn't, you know what I mean? Like I'm going to get through this. It was so gross in so many spots and I certainly don't feel like a prude, but after a while you're like, all right, I certainly don't feel like a prude, but after a while you're like, all right, I got it.

It was a weird time. Um, wait, can I read you silver Springs letters really quick? And then you go to your deep dive. Yeah, but you have a couple of samplings. I'm not saying time cast the spell on you, but you won't forget me. I know I could have loved you, but you would not let me. I know that. And then later I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will

haunt you. Give me just a chance. You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you. This is when she kicks it up in the, in the performance. And then the end is, was I such a fool? I'll follow you down till the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just a chance. You'll never get away from the sound of a woman that loves you.

And then it just keeps going and going and going. Yeah. Anyway, it all played out on stage and it's amazing. And it's one of the best YouTube clips. What's your deep side? She screams, you man, you man whore, I think too, in there. No? I don't remember that part. Okay. Yeah, so I referenced her, I think too in there? No? I don't remember that part.

Okay. Yeah, so I referenced her, I think at the very top, I'm reading all three volumes of Susan Wise Bowers. The first one's the history of the ancient world. And I just love it. She's a complete pragmatist about things and I'm going through some of the early Egyptian dynasties and so I just finished the chapters on the pyramids.

And I don't understand why people love conspiracy so much. I know it's conspiracy build. This may be offensive to you, but usually there's a very simple, the, the Occam's razor, what's the simplest explanation? Be like, that's probably what it is. So there was another author, a Swiss author named Eric Von Deineken,

who wrote this book about how aliens essentially built the pyramids. And he wrote this book in the sixties and it did really well. And then, you know, you always kind of wondered like, what the hell's going on over there in Egypt? And if I had a kid and I couldn't answer that, I, you know, again, it's probably why I'm not a parent. No, but I feel like ill-equipped.

If I had had a kid, it was like, what's up with the pyramids? And I go, you know, shit, he's got me. I haven't done a ton of research. And I want to just go based on the Swiss authors thing from the 1960s. But Susan's explanation of it, like after you read literally two pages, Bill, about the history of like how the pyramids get started, like one small. It's six levels up. So the next guy's like, well, mine's going to be seven.

And then the next guy's like, well, I'm going to do like eight, but then that one doesn't get finished. Then another one doesn't get finished. Then there's another one called the bent pyramid where they're just kind of like moving them further away from everywhere. The previous one is built by the way. And that's called the bent pyramid because they realized halfway through construction, if their angles are off and it's going to be too steep and then it's not going to hold

up. So they have to like flatten it out a little bit. So there's physical visual evidence to this day of what would be kind of man's attempt at building these great works. And she just goes like, look, this one was small. Then they tried to build this one. It didn't really work. This one was unfinished. And then this one's like really screwed up.

And yeah, they've done a good job with the corners and it's a massive undertaking, but they just basically asked their citizens based on the Pharaoh's power of like, no, this is what we're doing, dude, like we're building it and we're moving these stones around and it can take forever, but we're going to leave you some water and maybe like a sarong or something and then they master like any civilization they become better at building these things and all it took was like a couple pages for me to go okay well that's the answer like that's it now you're set yeah so I'm gonna

kid is my point because now I can answer that question. What you just laid out reminded me of what happened in Vegas when they were building the casinos and the themes got stupider and stupider and they're like, we're going to have a casino. It's, it's New York, New York. It's going to be like going to New York in a casino. And then somebody else would be like, whoa, I'm going to make a casino called Aladdin.

And we just go and it's like being in a fantasy. And then somebody else was like, I'm going to create Paris. And it's just going to be like going to Paris. Except not. I'm doing Venetian and it's going to be like going to Italy. Some of these casinos stayed and then other ones just failed miserably. That's a really good, it's exactly,

well, it's not exactly because I don't think anybody's ever accused despite some of the weird Vegas stuff of ever being built by aliens, but like not being educated on it and going, yeah, what is going on? Is it actually a perfect representation of all this mathematical approach to it is that here's the first one. Here's the second one, third, fourth. And like, by the time I think it's like the sixth or seventh one, it's like, okay, now

we've really got this thing locked in because we've been trying to build these things for years and years. And you go, oh, wow. All right. Yeah, that's a good point. And then you're like, oh, I'm going to build this thing. And then you're like, oh, I'm going to build this thing. And then you're like, oh, now we've really got this thing locked in because we've been trying to build these things for years and years and you go, oh, wow. All right.

Yeah. That actually makes a ton of sense. I wonder if that's going to happen with NBA trades where the KD trade was basically your version of them completely fucking up that last pyramid before they got better at it or maybe the Luca trade will be the last one and then we'll just get better trades from that point on. Maybe not. That'll never happen. Now. They'll still mess up some pyramids. They'll probably still mess up some. It's 2025 and Luca just got traded. That should have been a 1975 trade. Yeah, it was really funny sitting next to my dad because he's like an old married couple

with the Celtics team. Cause he's been watching these guys so long. And so like the start of the second quarter, Jaylen Tatum's out and it's going to be like Jaylen's five minutes where it's like that part of the concert where it's like Keith Richards has a new song for you and he's gonna come out and play his song. And my dad's just like, watch this, Jalen's just gonna try to get some shots off. Like this is, just watch what's gonna,

and it was like, he knows the team, he's been going to the games too long, he knows like every part of it. And it was just really funny because our record is like 39 and 15, and we won the title last year year and it just proved to me, my 77 year old dad, you're just never gonna be happy with sports.

He's complaining about Jalen who's awesome. I think because they get older, and I'm going through this a little bit with my dad, where he'll complain about something sports related and I just go, what are you talking about, man? Like, do you not watch, does your father not watch enough other games? Will he watch other NBA games that are non-Seltzer's life?

Well, he'll watch the TNT ABCs sometimes, but he watches every Seltzer game. Which is kind of adorable, because that's how he finds out sometimes about other teams. Like guys, like he went to see Wemby right before the break and it was his first Wemby game and it was just his scouting report really made me laugh because it was like, he's so long. He's not wrong.

You have them and then he blocks it. I was like, yeah. Yeah. That's what it's like. I think it's a common thing with guys past a certain age is they're just so much older, they're selfish. They're incredibly selfish about what they want from their sports teams.

Yeah. I don't know if it's counting down the years. I'm not trying to be morbid about this, but it's. Possible. Like my father can be so incredibly difficult. Like I went to a sporting event with him and now meanwhile the guy hasn't had to pay for a ticket because I've helped him, you know, which I'm happy to do as a

payback for all the years that he took me to all the games growing up. But like, if the Celtics get up big, he'll want the other team to make a run for his soul entertainment. Yeah. And I'll just be like, Hey, you can't, you can't fucking be doing that. All right. Like you can't, you can't be rooting on the other team for this five minute window and he's like, well, I only get to a couple of these a year.

It's like, well, you know what? You didn't pay for anything. The seat is awesome. And you need to not root for the calves for six minutes, just so you get not only a win, but a close one. Yeah. Well, I like with the older fans how cut and dry it becomes. Like my dad just wanted the Red Sox to sign Bregman. He's like we need a right-hand hitter. He's gonna be good in Fenway. He looked up no stats. None. He had no, there was no, there was no

Average annual salary. Home road splits. These guys don't care. No, he's like, we need a right-hand hitter. And he's been really good in Fenway. He can't, you know, he can't lay down any of the stats of Bregman actually in Fenway, but that's just where he stands and that's the way it is.

Yeah, see that's, that's always like the funny thing with, you know, we're always the funny thing with, you know, we're terrible because we live it, but your dad, and I don't even mean your dad or my dad, but everybody listening to this right now, like your dad's advanced scouting is if the guy had two doubles in like a three game series once.

It's the Doc Rivers has a GM strategy of when I played Byron Mullins that time when he hit those threes. We got to get him. Was there any part of you that immediately looked up Bregman's deal and then compared to the average annual salary of Mookie Betts? No, I didn't do that. But I will say I didn't think it was, I looked at his stats and noticed that he hadn't had

a really awesome year since 2019, which made me nervous. But then MLB released their top hundred players. And he was like 57. I was like, yeah, baby, Bregman kind of sucked me back a little bit. The Red Sox had four of the top hundred. Well, I'm all over, um, baseball America again. I renewed my subscription at a benefit of years. Yeah. Big farm. I mean, that was my lunch reading for years and years. Little Christian Campbell, the Marcella Mayor. Derek Harding.

The Roman Anthony. Yeah. The Bregman thing pissed me off just because I can't think of any transaction without Mookie. I'm surprised. I would say 38-year-old Bill probably have seven, 7,500 words on the Mookie Luca thing. No, you know what? I have 20 words for you right now.

The Luca trade made me feel better about Mookie. It actually, it was a trade that was so much worse than the Mookie trade, which was reprehensible and awful. Um, cause at least we won the title with Mookie. Like then everyone, the title of the gun. Like they never even won the title with Luca and then they traded him for, you know, they probably got more in the trade. But I really identified with the Mavs fans

cause what they were feeling after the trade was like Red Sox fans on steroids and HGH, how we felt with Mookie. But at least with the Mookie thing, we had time to prepare and it seemed like it was headed that way for a year. It's like, oh man, they're gonna fight, this is not gonna end well.

Luca, they had no idea. No, there was a lot of preparation on the Mookie thing and I know it's not fair to do average annual salary because the Bregman thing can be a one year deal. But one of the things, things about like these commitments for these, these position players that historically been so bad at baseball with him, you figured he was going to age. Right.

And he just go like, look, what his deal will be in seven years, average annual salary compared to like what you're signing for now, and then what it will be as salaries keep going up. Um, although, you know, that's another topic that we could probably spend a lot of time on, cause I thought that ESPN baseball news was crazy. Like it was like, wow, you guys are actually opting out of live rights. You're going to do it. And then Manfred just daggers.

We didn't want to be on a declining platform or whatever he said. I couldn't believe that. But you know, he's, he's setting the table because he needs to negotiate with other people and he's trying to make it seem like ESPN was a bad partner and that's why our ratings were down because they didn't push the game. I get why he did it. It's just really unusual. But I think baseball is a local sport and I think we've known that for 10 years and

you and I have personally talked about it 10 times. I don't think people want to sit there, oh, it's Sunday night, I'm gonna watch the Cincinnati Reds play the Milwaukee Brewers. Like, nobody's doing that. And if they're doing it, they're 60 years old. Do you remember when you used to do it? Because I did it religiously.

I didn't matter who was playing with Sunday night baseball, and I couldn't wait. Yeah, days are over. All right, we gotta go. Rosillo, good to see you. We'll see you next Sunday. And next Sunday when Celtic City starts, the last segment of the pod,

we're gonna do some sort of topic based off of whatever the first episode was. That'd be good to get some Celtics content in the pod. Fire it up. That's what the people wanted. They kept asking. Good to see you, Rosillo. Good to see you. We're still. Good to see.

All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosilla. Thanks to Kyle and Serena and Gahal as well. Don't forget you can watch this as a video podcast. You can also check out clips on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have a new rewatchable is coming on Monday night. That is a video podcast as well on Spotify. Uh, and you can check out the ringer movies, YouTube channel for

entire videos of that as well. I'm going to see you on Tuesday. Enjoy the next couple of days and I'll see you Tuesday. I don't have a few years with him. On the wayside, on the brink of sun, never on the end. I don't have a few years with him. of Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and president DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here, visit gambling helpline, ma.org

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