The Bill Simmons Podcast - Chadwick Boseman (Nov. 2019 Interview)

Episode Date: August 29, 2020

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons sat down with actor Chadwick Boseman to talk about sports movies, making biopics, '42,' 'Draft Day,' 'Black Panther,' '21 Bridges,' NFL, NBA, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. On Friday night, we got the tragic news that a very talented actor named Chadwick Boseman passed away after a four-year battle with colon cancer that a lot of us didn't know about, including myself. I had a chance to interview him last November for this podcast and really, really enjoyed the time I spent with him that day.

And I thought it was a really good conversation and a really good glimpse into what kind of guy he was. So we thought we would rerun that right here. Rest in peace, Chadwick Boseman. You were an amazing actor. Really enjoyed your work and we're all going to miss you. Here it is. All right.

So I was looking through your IMDb. You're one sports movie away from being a sports movie hall of famer. Oh, I got to do one then. What is the number? One more. So Vontae Mack. Right. I feel like a pretty iconic sports movie,

like supporting role character. I like that movie. I watch the movie all the time. I love doing the movie. You know what I'm saying? And then you're Jackie Robinson. It holds up. Well, I want to talk about that.

Draft Day holds up. Draft Day holds up. Draft Day holds up. And you're Jackie Robinson, but no basketball movie. And then you play basketball. What are you doing? Oh, it's not my fault.

It is your fault. No, it's not. You have the pull to make a basketball movie now. What are you doing? Well, I'll be a coach now. I'll be a coach. No, no way. It still counts if I,

it still counts. You look younger than you are. You could play like a guy like mid thirties. He's at the end of his line. He's playing for like Utah. He's his last leg of his career's He's at the end of his line He's playing for like Utah He's his last leg Of his career

City He's at the end of his line He's at the end of his line But But makes one last run at it Gets in great shape Meets the right lady It's a comeback story

I like that part I like that part I don't know I'm just spitballing I don't really have the whole idea But he doesn't count if I play coach It's kind of too It's like coaches are in

The hall of fame I guess you could claim coach I don't know Phil the whole idea yet but he doesn't count if I play a coach it's kind of two it's like coaches are in the Hall of Fame I guess you could play a coach I don't know Phil Jackson had a championship both ways you know you could do that but you're good at basketball you're gonna take advantage of it

you're right you're right okay we'll try to find it's hard to find a good basketball movie truth be told which ones which roles are you jealous of

love and basketball love and basketball is the one you know what I'm saying like that would be it's really hard to like to find the right role in

because they're good basketball movies but the right role but Love and Basketball is the I think the quintessential one that it holds up

I think they're probably going to do that again at some point well it's 20th anniversary coming up yeah they're going to it's remakes

are happening it's either going to become a TV show or something like where do you stand anniversary coming up yeah they're gonna it's remakes are happening it's either gonna become a tv show or something like yeah like where do you stand on remakes because like i would be actually be mad if they remade that because i think it holds up my daughter really likes that i just watched over there a few months ago and i think it's certain things change it certain things need to stay like the original and don't don't remake like you can't remake that no but they're gonna do it you do a sequel

you you could you could maybe you could I'm trying to figure out how I can get you in the sequel it does make sense

you couldn't be the son you're not old enough no no no like just let some stuff be a classic and let it be the only one

I mean maybe 20 more years from now, you can do it again. You know how bloggers aggregate stuff you say and they may get stories out of it? Yes. And it'd be like, Chadwick Boseman says, Black Panther 2 is never happening. It stops me from saying a lot of stuff too. So how about we do you issue a challenge to all the screenwriters out there.

Write me a basketball movie. I'll make it. Headline. And then that'll be out there. You're one away. Let's do it. Why couldn't it be like tennis? It could be tennis. I was just trying to take advantage of the stuff

you're good at though man you know maybe I'm good cause Wesley Snipes was not good at basketball but was in White Man Can't Jump which is an iconic sports movie

right but they had to teach him how to play basketball we did a podcast about it he did pretty good for a person that was that was being taught

yeah he was a lot of like high dribbles was Woody Harrelson like Woody Harrelson was good he was already good. Yeah, he was good. Okay.

That's it. See, I didn't know that. I had no idea. And now David Duchovny went for the Woody Harrelson role and he didn't get it. Wow. He was another one who was good. Clooney's supposedly good. You must-

Don't you play in the sets ever? Or are you just out? You're retired. The only time I've ever played even at the studio is at Warner Brothers. They have a pretty cool outside court there. And did that when i was when i was like training for 42 i would go out yeah basketball but other than that i think people are trying to say their knees most of the time yeah they are they are so you know who's good is mbj yeah yeah he's good he is good yeah i coached him in the celebrity game and it's it was an emotionally scarring experience for him why because he didn't play well he had kevin hart as his point guard who was

listen very alan i love kevin but it becomes like a it becomes like a comedy show yeah well that's what happened and then so he was just i think he was ready to be like kobe 2006 michael b jordan in the game he was ready to be like clear out i michael b jordan in the game he was ready to be like clear out i got this he didn't get the opportunity didn't get it yeah i didn't get it with the the year i played um yeah i played i played in this liberty game i didn't i didn't even score because of the same thing you're saying because basically what happened is it was like three things that happened. One, I was about to do Panther and Jesse Williams got hurt during that. Yeah.

He got hurt during that game and I looked over my shoulder and like my wrist was like, don't you do it. Like, like, like jog the rest of the game. Yeah.

And, and then Anthony, I went up for, I was about to go up for a basket and Anthony Anderson I think he thought I was gonna dunk on him and he he undercut me and he's being he's been apologizing me but it was a pretty it was like a plate like a it was like a 90s basketball playoff basketball foul like and I was like 90s Knicks yeah like it was it was Knicks Detroit like it was like one of those and he's

to this day every time he sees me he apologizes but yeah it was that in combination with like every time you know

Kevin Hart got the ball he was like I'm shooting I'm shooting I'm shooting I'm shooting yeah he ruined the game for like four years

yeah what uh love me to death though were you what you what you are you perimeter or what are you

oh I play point guard i play point guard so in a movie that could work it could work yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah because the other one you you box i saw it too yeah see to me that would be the it would be a boxing movie probably like that would be what i would gravitate towards because i love boxing movies i think it's but it's easy to tell a good story in a boxing movie than it is um just just what what um what you go through when you're a fighter that story and the alternate story of the person you're fighting you're that's always something where you're in two different places going through the same thing.

And that drama, that buildup, and how close you become with the person you're fighting is always the story. It always works, no matter what. And, you know, just the sweet science is something that I think it's also hard to capture it on camera.

Yeah. Like, it's really hard to do it and to capture it well and somebody doing it well. So you're jealous of Creed? No, no, I am not. I love it. No, I mean, jealous in a good way. Like, it's a great movie. You wish.

No, I always see it like, you know, I always I'm the person pulling for the boxing movie. I'm pulling for it because I know it's so hard to do. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So and I get something from like, you know, even Will Smith's Ali, you know, I always get something from watching those movies that I don't get from watching other sports movies that's exhilarating so nah

it's no jealousy at all it's like it's like you know if you can do it I'm pulling for you I'm pulling for you it's amazing that

they keep being made out of all the sports movies yeah sports boxing has been going back to like the 30s it's the best one

to me it's the best like know, it's mano a mano. You know, it's the training. The training, you know, sequences are always going to work. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you do it well, you get in shape for it. Well, and also if you're an actor, you get to get in awesome shape. I need to get you in the of fame yeah yeah there's not that many people in there burt reynolds is in there i didn't even think about that as a possibility but

hey let's go for it snipes is in there omar epps yeah trying to think who else so you my opinion you have to have at least three really good sports movie roles to be able to get in right four ideally but three so i feel like you have two right but the basketball or the boxing and you could maybe be a basketball coach like six years you'd bring back coach carter coach carter too coach carter too coach carter surprising amount of legs or or do or do something similar like you know remember the titan is a great movie too yeah you know that's one that's one actually that every time it comes on like i actually have to watch at least 30 minutes right at least 30 it's funny i was looking at the disney plus app and disney's just made a

lot of sports movies yeah and they have there's a sports movie section then there's like an inspirational section and it's just like 30 35 sports movies but it's all of those like remember the titans right the rookie miracle like they were just cranking them out forever and ever in my opinion they should just be coming out there should there should be a new sports movie like every three months well trust me i've gotten my fair share come across the desk. Yeah, scripts. Yeah, come across the desk.

But it has to be, you know, a lot of them are real. They're real people. So it's biopics again. Right. So I have to watch when I do it. You can't make any more biopics. I can, but it's got to be the right one. How many have you done?

Three? Two or three? Let's not even talk about it. Three? Let's not talk about it. They to be the right one. How many have you done? Three? Two or three? Let's not even talk about it. Three? Let's not talk about it. They were all good though. Yes. It's not like you made like a bad one.

Trust me. Love it. Like I love it. But it's, and I love the process. But it's one of those things like you just don't, you shouldn't do it every time because the process, there is a slight difference in what do you mean the process what's the process well it's it's it's it's research you know it's like you're you can't just arbitrarily choose to do something you know what i mean because you

you owe it to the family you know you owe it to the person to to sort of live up to to certain things and you have you have a liberty you have some freedom with within um the unknowns yeah but uh but there is like a parameter based upon this is the truth you know this is the truth so i can i can figure out this in between whereas you know if it's if it's you know a fictitious character you can just make up a lot any almost you can make up at least 60 70 percent of it you know how do you find the balance between impersonating somebody who everybody knows versus creating your own character out of that person because the worst case scenario right is you're just doing an snl sketch impersonation of the guy which is not what you want yeah you don't i don't do an impersonation right right i because there is it

there is that's one way to approach it um what i try to do is i try to find you know i find things that are true and then i i use that as the foundation to like explore off of that. And then if I go to a place that, OK, well, that's not right. That's that's you. Like I'm I'm either mindful of it or somebody else is mindful of it. Like, you know, that that was that was you right there. That was that was something else. But but the impersonation is one where I think you're you're stuck even more so in a box

than what i described before yeah um and and what's dangerous about it is you know when you a lot of times when you're making fun of things you imitate them so like you said saturday night live yeah so so for instance with james brown was like, I can't do an impersonation. You had an Eddie Murphy hot tub, James Brown celebrity hot tub in your head? Yeah. And mind you, I love Eddie Murphy too. Yeah. But if I do that, even though most people wouldn't even be able to articulate the difference

in the two things, it's going to become something where I'm making fun of him instead of paying homage to him and and and it's it's subtle but but you know the difference when you see it actually like i know the difference so like i always try to just find things that are true and there's certain things like you know i didn't do jackie robinson's voice you know yeah and at first i i wanted to i was like you know talking to brian hogan he was like nope nope don't do the voice don't do the voice what was his voice i don't even remember it's um distinct it's very distinct and i i hesitate to even try to i'm not gonna but was it like did he have an accent or no it's like it's it's from that time period you know it has that it has that pace and, it's from that time period.

It has that pace and intonation from that time period. Very formal. Very formal. And also, it's higher pitched than you would expect it to be. And Brian was like, that's going to take us out of the movie. Because you're so much about that time period that everybody else in the movie would have to do that same thing for us to, for it to work.

And so, um, or do their version of the same thing. It was like, no, no, find it, find,

you know, something else that gives us a sense of the time period, but not that exact, you know, thing. And so it became a thing of like okay what's the essence of this person as opposed to the an imitation of the person or you know it's it's you when you play a real person a lot of times you're choosing you're like like you're a painter you're choosing what parts and perspectives you want to show because it's impossible sometimes to show everything

and make people follow the story. So it's a decision. Well, it's funny, like Jackie and James Brown, it's such different energies, right? Jackie, almost like a blank slate, but there's a lot going on, which you did really well in the movie. And James Brown is so much more theatrical. There's a lot going on. Yeah, there's a lot going on, which he did really well in the movie. And James Brown is so much more theatrical.

It's a lot going on. Yeah, there's a lot going on. A lot of mood swings. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And, you know, Jackie Robinson, you know, he was fiery at times too.

Wow. He was a badass. I mean, I was glad the movie hit some of that stuff because he got his revenge on everybody down the line not quite like Michael Jordan you know what I'm saying

but he was he's that guy he was going spikes up he's that guy he was slowly getting everybody back yeah that intensity that makes somebody

want to like that you know what I'm saying like he had that Michael Jordan thing you know or Michael Jordan had his thing however you want to say it

did you expect that movie to do as well as it did because I remember seeing the trailer and thinking oh man this is I'm glad they're doing this

I wonder who's going to see it but now I feel like every kid eventually sees that movie it's going to have a shelf life I think I'm going to

I have to say like I didn't I didn gonna have a shelf life i think i'm gonna i have to say like i didn't i didn't have a real sense of of like at that point in time i didn't have a real sense of like what's gonna do well or what's not gonna do well yeah um because it was my first time playing the lead it's my first time having to think about things in that way um and so in my mind i was i was just like i have to just go out here and sell the movie like after yeah after we've done it like you know i have to do my best to make sure that you know it doesn't fail in the box office and you know people don't know who i am so i have to let them know who i am and what the movie is

but i didn't have a sense of whether or not that was going to work or not, you know what I'm saying, or the movie was going to work. But I had been told a lot of things like that, you know, that a movie like this wouldn't work, you know, all those things. Or that if you have a black lead, it won't work. If you have a black lead, people don't know it won't work. So all those things were things that you're kind of fighting against. And I think the studio, and especially Legendary at that time, went out on a limb to make sure that that movie was made. Legendary put a lot into making that work.

So you were, I think, mid-30s when you did that yeah yeah what took so long for you to have a leading role was that your choice or did you just not get a break um both yeah i think it's both like um you know part of it is like i think it's it's difficult for some actors to to understand what it what is it that you have to do to break through you know i'm saying like what what is what's your particular journey to get to that spot where where you you know break through or even understanding what does it mean to break through like yeah you know if for me i think that was hard because i was i was an artist you know i'm saying i wasn't i wasn't like i'm trying to play lead roles i was i in my mind it was more like i have this idea for this play that i'm writing or the script

you know and it's this cool thing i want to direct. And, like, my mind was spread in a lot of different places. And so it was never about becoming a star, actually. It was just about being the best artist, you know, that I wanted to be. And I think at a certain point, I came to the realization that if you do this one thing, you can do everything. And so I focused on, I began to focus on, oh, let me just act for right now. And so now, you know, I'm able to do the exact thing that I was doing before. It probably like, you know, I've had a lot of people tell me that you should have went to. It probably, like, you know, I've had a lot of people tell me that you should have went to LA sooner.

And like, you know, they were probably right, you know. But I think things happen when they're supposed to happen. Also, like, you know, I'm better suited for the life and the pitfalls that come, come you know because it happened when it happened you know i'm saying like i've been later yeah i've been later yeah i'm not it i'm i'm less you know prone to squander it right because it happened when it happened that's the old george clooney theory right yeah. When he became really successful on ER,

he was much older and if it had happened to him younger, it would have demolished him. You don't know, but I feel like for me, it was just a thing

of focus. Once my focus became, oh, this is what I'm doing, then it just happened. That's something that's happened to a lot of actors, though. It seems like a common theme of people who have been successful are people that... I didn't want it.

That's the best way to say it. But breaking into the industry, like, doing plays and doing stage and all kinds of things, but not being like, I gotta get the... And then it ends up happening. It happens organically. Yeah. Well, to me, it's like... Because I'll have people that will, you know, they'll see me out or they'll see me. You know, I just did this revolt summit for Puff.

And, you know, it's all about, you know, telling your story and letting people see that it can be done. Yeah. And people will, like, they want success to happen for them really quickly. And I was always of the mindset of just respecting the art form, like, respecting the people that came before me and respecting the, you know, the craft. Like, you know, have good teachers. Have, find your own, what is your method of acting? You know, like, and not doing somebody else's method and trying to approval seek, but finding what is, what works for you um and i think it's always been you know that was success not necessarily like you know making a whole bunch of money or people or fame or after a while you want

to pay your bills and you got goals in life and you're OK, now I'm ready for this. But it's it's always been more about about the craft and more about when you get in that opportunity, you want to be able to like to actually capitalize on it. Did you put on weight for Vontae Mac? I put on a lot of weight for that. You're almost unrecognizable. Yeah, I put on a lot. I think i've changed did you pass all the pd tests after that did you fail did you get suspended from the set for six weeks i should have i put on about it was it was super quick in a month i put on 25 pounds oh wow

it was stupid like it was the most unhealthy weight gain i've ever heard of yeah it was it was at least 25 and like maybe less than a month just eating eating protein like and no no steroids but like it's like i don't really know how i did that but i i put on so much weight for that there's a news article and you're like I don't know how that got into my system like with the habits dude I don't understand I was taking something for

fertility can you explain in 20 seconds how Kostner gets all his picks back how what? In draft day, the plot. I can know.

No way in the world. I don't think anyone can. Well, see, the hard part is that I watch, when I do a movie... It's a flaw. Huh? It's a flaw in the movie.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it is. I still love it. I say this out of love. Yes. It's a flaw when i when i do a movie i don't go back and watch them like that's it you move on i move on i don't i it's very rare that i will sit and watch a movie that i've done um and the only reason why i've seen

i think half of draft day and I was like this be hoes up yeah is because I was with somebody else who was like no we're gonna sit

and watch this yeah and um it's the greatest Cleveland Browns moment of I think the last 60 years yeah

since 1964 Costner getting his picks back yo not a lot of highlights for the Browns fans. And it makes me pull. I'm not a Browns fan, but it makes me like start to

pull for them for at least the first half of the year. Just to see if they can have a Vontae Mack moment. The reason that works as a sports movie and why it's grown on me is the side characters I'm really interested in. Like Vontae Mack's not in the movie that much,

but I'm like, I'm in on this guy. I wish he was in more scenes. And the same thing for the quarterback. He decides not to draft, and they did a good job. I always feel like that's the key. Remember the Titans is like that too. Yes. Where the two linebackers who become friends.

Like, I just like those guys. I want to spend more time with them, but they're not in there that much. But that always works I forgot you were in the you were in the Ernie Davis movie too but it's not enough

to get me in the Hall of Fame no but it gets it helps the candidacy it does you had speaking lines in it I had did you had Floyd Little I did

I did he's a legend as well but I feel like when you're saying you do three sports movies you need to be three three iconic parts. Yeah, exactly.

All right. So Floyd Little is iconic now. It's just. Right. It's just I'm only in there at the end. Right. Yeah. Well, if you do the boxing movie, maybe Creed 3.

Maybe it's Creed's cousin. I can come in as a cousin or something. I'll talk to Michael about it. You know, I think, I think they would go for that. Did you know him before you did Black Panther? We've known each other a long time.

Yeah. Yeah. I've known him since he was in New York. He's a BS podcast favorite. He's an OG on this. We've gone way back. I think he was on my old one at Grantland. And yeah,

we, he's been on here for a while yeah yeah we go back so and he's telling you about Coogler and he's like do this movie uh what what movie uh for Black Panther oh you're saying Coogler wanted him to do it no I'm saying Michael B. Jordan's telling you about how good he is as a director, I'm sure. Oh, no, he didn't have to tell me that. No. Because you knew from Creed.

I knew from, well, I knew from Fruitvale. Yeah. I knew from, I knew, yeah. That's all you have to, you have to see that. That's when he came on the podcast initially. You know, that's, that's, I think, um, you know, the thing about Marvel is I think what they always try to do is, is, is pick, they're not picking directors that do big movies like that. They're picking the director that does the small movie. Yeah. ball movie yeah and so so that there is like a push-pull confrontation between this you know

their machine and then a filmmaker that wants to want that has a voice and a vision so i mean to me that's what for a panther that's what you needed you had to have somebody that was like that had it they had intentionality that they wanted to do something particular with this movie. They didn't want to just make another Marvel movie. Did you have a moment before you actually did the movie where you're like, am I sure I want to do this? This is going to be a really huge movie and it's probably going to change my life.

Yeah. No, no. No, I knew it was going to change my life for sure. You're saying was this going to be such a big thing that I didn't want I didn't want that smoke am I ready for this

I knew I was ready for the task at hand to be honest like for as far as like the everyday things about your life that change um um fame whatever those things like i i try not to think about that most of the time like and going into something like you you just you just can't worry about that because it also might not

like it might not change and I think there's for a lot of actors there's this misconception because you don't have a sense of like the reach of everything like

in the lay person people don't have a sense of like the reach of the things that, and the lay person, people don't have a sense of like the reach of the things that they do. Like, if I go home and I talk to my family, they'll say,

well, when are you going to get on? They'll name some TV show that's not as big as anything I've done. Right. And I'm like, I'm not going to go back

and do that. Like, that's crazy. When are you going to Chicago Fire? But in there, in there, that's my,

that's my show. Like, that's my, when are you going to get on that show? Like, but's crazy. When you go to Chicago Fire. But in there, in there, that's my show. Like, that's my, where you gonna get on that show? Like, but it's in, sometimes in actors' minds, they have this false sense of, like, what their fame is or how big of a reach they have. and i learned that you you know you have to sort of like just do the work and let all that stuff sort of come to you when it comes to you yeah because it's it's it's building it can build something that's unhealthy in your head so for me it's all about you know really the people you get to work with like that's the beauty of it all like i think of the people that get to work with. That's the beauty of it all. I think of the people that I've had the opportunity to work with and that blows your mind. It blows your mind that you get to actually,

if you wanted to learn this craft and then you get to sit across the camera from a J.K. Simmons or a Harrison Ford or many of the actors that I've been around. Robert Downey Jr. You're like, oh, wow, this is why I started doing this. So I'm not going to trade. That's worth it. That's what's worth it is that you get to do it with the best people. The,

the other part is like, you know, you, some of it you love and some of it, some of it you don't, you know, some of, you know,

as far as life is concerned and the parts you don't, you just try to avoid it when you can. Kyle wanted to know that's Kyle over there. there how many how many photos have you had to pose the last five years with with somebody doing that doing the hands across i don't if i don't want to do it i don't do it how many times do you get asked is this just part of your everyday life nobody nobody asked me to pose like that except for weird situations when they do it. That's good. That makes me happy.

Yeah. That renews my faith in humanity. I think they know better to ask me that. Because it's like the boxer. You know, anytime there's like whatever boxer, they have to put the sugary letter. Yeah. It's got to go. Come on, give me a fist.

You know. I'm glad that doesn't happen it most of the time um you know i'm trying to think like it's always it's always somebody like man can i get this and i'm like you could do it right i'm just gonna stand next to you you could you could do it you do it all you want um and then probably asking for the sequel right who's asking just everybody oh people are definitely like when is the sequel happening they're ready yeah like people are upset that it's gonna take so long it's what is it 2022 yeah yeah but it's definitely happening it's definitely happening yeah but for me that's not that long because I know what they have to do to prepare for it, for us to shoot it.

And then the post-production, it's a lot. It's a lot of work. The only thing we know for sure about the sequel is that Angela Bassett's still going to look fantastic no matter what year you make it. She's the eighth wonder of the world. She's the eighth wonder of the world. Yeah, she is yeah it's unbelievable that's my mama you're talking about she's on nine she's on nine one one no she's i think she's like 60 now it's unbelievable she's amazing she's amazing she

looks amazing she doesn't she stays in shape though she doesn't age she does not she does not like i have nothing to say about it except for you are 100% right. I'm trying to make sure I say the right thing. We gave her props and that's what she needed. Yeah. What was your SNL experience like? You know what? You must have loved that.

It's so weird, right? I didn't think I would at first. I thought it was just going to be so nerve wracking. And especially during that time, I was like, do I really need? It's the craziest thing you ever do. Yeah. Like, I don't know if anybody else thinks that, but. No, everybody says that.

It's the craziest thing you ever do because you don't know what to expect. And if you did know what to expect, it would be even worse. So like even, like I've, you know, thinking about going back and doing another one, I'm like,

I'm excited. But then at the same time, I'm like, it's gotta be, I gotta be ready for it. Right, right, right. But it's, because it's the first time

in a long time that you've been in that type of experience as an actor where you're like, this could completely bomb. I have no control over this. We can't do another take. It's not even like a play where you've had a month of rehearsal. Right. You literally just got these scripts on thursday

and you didn't even they're not complete and you had you had way more than the ones you do so you've been working on things that you're not even gonna do and even that day you've actually done like this uh preview performance that rehearsal the rehearsal and the rehearsals always is is better than that than the live performance yeah because you have like this really hype crowd that comes in so that's actually one of the hardest things if you've ever you know done a play or stage is like the first the opening night is great the the the second night you're trying to live up to opening night. In your head.

In your head. And it always falls flat of that. So the one you do on TV is that, is like falling flat of the one you did, the opening. So it's the craziest experience. It's like all the changes, you know, and how quick it is. And you just kind of fly by the seat of your pants really 21 bridges 21 bridges proud of it this seems yeah it seems like you're really fired up about this movie uh it's it's it's fun it was it's a fun experience because you know

it's you know it's the first thing i'm doing um you know away from marvel in a minute yeah and um you know i'm a producer on the movie yeah uh and you know just it's it's been great to sort of to help put this cast together um we have we have a great cast, JK Simmons, uh, one of my favorite actors, uh, Sienna Miller is outstanding. She has another movie coming out right now. I think it's called America woman, which I'm excited about seeing. Um, Stefan James, great actor. And, and, um, really, really wanted him in the movie because you, you got, you have two sides sort of playing against each other. I think we needed him and Taylor Kitsch on that other side and they kill it. You know what I'm saying?

It seems like it's a 90s throwback movie. It is. Is that fair? I haven't seen it yet. It's partially like a 90s throwback movie or partially a 70s throwback movie. Oh, look at you. So it feels, it's it it feels

you know it feels a little bit like french connection it feels a little bit like the fugitive it feels it's it's like it feels a little bit like heat you know it has it has that sort of like intense drive to it so as soon as like the the action starts it doesn't really stop you know i'm saying um that sounds like a movie i would watch 10 times because those you named all movies that i love and i watch over and over again this do you get to yell at any point shut down the bridge the top of your lungs or no that that i would have i would have recommended that didn't get in it was in the first draft shut down the bridge no nothing

no it didn't that's hilarious are you a good guy or a bad guy you don't know everybody's a little bit okay everybody's

it's one of those movies everybody's a little bit dirty I don't know who to trust yeah your first time movie cop role I don't remember first yes

alright so we banged that out. Now we got to- Yeah. Now you got to do the boxing and basketball. Hey, it's a few things. It's a few things before that, though. It's a few things we got before that. Listen, the basketball is a show for you.

If you have, I would say, three years left, will you be able to- No. No. It's- Oh, my God. No, look. Here's why.

I'm going to make the case. You got why I'm gonna make the case no because you have the basketball scenes those are hard you gotta do those for like two months no listen I know physically

you don't physically you gotta do it now that's the that's the reason why that's the reason why I'm not doing it because I gotta go back to Panther

like that's you know how you can pull an Achilles pull a oh yeah you're smart you take care of yourself yeah yeah it's like cause the boxing I feel like you could push back Like that's, you know how you can pull an Achilles, pull a. Oh yeah. You're smart. You didn't carry yourself. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like. Cause the boxing, I feel like you could push back. Denzel did. When did he did? When he did a hurricane. He must've been late forties when he did that. Right.

Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. You could get away with that. You just get in good shape. Nobody will know. I don't know about the basketball movie thing. Like in my mind, in my mind in my mind it's the

best it's gonna have to be a coach it's we figured it out yeah i said it from the beginning you said no well i tried to fight it but maybe there's a scene where you you play against the kids because they don't they don't respect you enough and that's when you get to show off the hey i think you need to write this movie maybe I'm just spitballing for you. Maybe direct it. Writer, director. You need to write and direct it. There's one scene where you scrimmage with the kids

to really lay down the law. And that would get me in? That would get me in the Hall of Fame? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that would help. Sam Jackson, Coach Carter, that counts for... He doesn't have enough of a resume,

but it would have counted. You know, Denzel and he got gang. You know, he has the in the and apparently you know he hasn't seen we we plays one-on-one with that story's true he scores the first four points for yeah he told that story on this podcast and spike was telling me this summer you know yeah you know he was like yo it's true like Like, he, Denzel came in. It was worse than that, though, because he said he rope-a-doped Ray Allen. He was talking about how he didn't have a left hand. He couldn't go left.

And then he went left. And then he went left. And Ray Allen was like, what's going on? He couldn't get left. Yeah. Hey, man. That's how you do it. Because the game starts before.

All right. Before we go, you're a giant sports fan. You don't have the chance that much to talk sports. Nah. Do the thing. Let's do it. We're taping this before Lamar versus Watson. Right.

So hopefully that was an awesome game. But heading into that game, who are you more fired up about? I'm a Deshaun Watson fan. So you're in the school of Watson. I'm in the school. I mean, I grew up. I'm from Anderson, South Carolina. He went to Clemson. You know what I'm a Deshaun Watson fan. So you're in the school of Watson. I'm in the school. I mean, I grew up, I'm from Anderson, South Carolina. He went to Clemson. You know what I'm saying?

So, you know, they played before. You know, they played before when he was at Louisville, when Lamar was at Louisville. So we've seen this battle before. I already know it's going to be amazing. Who won that one? I don't even remember. Clemson won.

Clemson was ranked number five. Louisville was ranked number three. So when Watson drops to 12, are you going nuts in the draft? I'm like, well, with both of them. Both of them.

32. Both of them dropped. Nowhere in the world either one of them should have dropped. I was like, everybody's going to pay for dropped. You know, I was like, everybody's going to pay for that. Like, both years. I was like, everybody, you know, people are going to regret, you know, letting them go. And look at it now.

You know what I'm saying? Look at both of them. I mean, it's one of the defining things that's happened in football this decade. It's teams just whiffing. Kyle and I, who's also a Pats fan, I'm a Pats fan, we were sitting on this couch because I had to do a podcast after that draft and Lamar is falling

and the Pats have the 31st pick and we're like this is amazing we're going to get Lamar the whole league is so stupid Belichick's going to do it again and then we passed on him

and you were like oh man we took Sonny Michel and we were like oh my god and then Baltimore traded in and when that happened because the Ravens are kind of our arch nemesis when they got him we were like, oh my God. And then Baltimore traded in. And when that happened,

because the Ravens are kind of our arch nemesis. When they got him, we were like, oh my God, this is done. He's going to be good. Yeah, the Ravens are like the only team that constantly is able to challenge the pass. Constantly. They're not scared. Even the 07 season,

when we went undefeated in the regular season, they should have beaten us. We got saved by this pass interference call. Yeah. So you love Watson. I'm worried. I think his team's too banged up, unfortunately, for him to do much this year.

The problem is defense. I think the difference in the game is going to be that Baltimore has the better defense than the Texans do. Yeah. So when you're in these movie sets, are you like watching Lee pass and all that stuff? Are you one of those guys?

No, no, no, no, no. If I'm doing a movie, there's, that's a different type of focus. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'll take the time to see Sports center you know but i do watch sports center you know i do i do make sure i stay abreast of what's going on um or i'll choose you know

one show whether it be first take or something like that and i'm like okay well it's everything that's going on so you get like a half hour steven i have to i have to i have to yeah i have to stay abreast of what's going on have you gone on that show i have yeah and i'm actually i'm actually i think i'm about to go on there again like soon oh nice so so yeah well this is more exciting i think talking sport us talking sports this is a conversation first take you're just they're just moving people in and out this is like this is a real this is really special. We got to talk Clippers Lakers. Okay. Who's your favorite NBA team? Now that's the thing. I don't, I only have a favorite college team. Um, I'm a Tar Heel fan. NBA is more about the, more about the players, more about the

stories, but I keep up, I keep abreast of like all the teams though. Um, so you just follow the players. I follow the players players I follow the teams too so you're like a Gen Z even though you're older than Gen Z you're like the 20 somethings now yeah

that just follow the players from team to team yeah I do I do I mean I'm just being for real like it's like I'm not like

oh I'm pulling for I think by I'll watch the stories and then I'll decide okay this is who I want to win this year that's pretty much

how I'll do it so who'd you decide on we're not there yet we're not there yet I think if we choose between Clippers and Lakers right now

which I think is a fair argument yeah I feel like the Clippers are a better team I think the clippers are stacked um i think they have a lot of killers on that team like let me just say it i agree that it's like it's like that's the guy you that's the guy you hate you know you hate him when he's not on

your team and you love him when he's on your team you know like patrick beverly is like that you know yeah kawaii is like that um uh they're they're just deeper and they like they haven't even had paul george you know you know i think they're getting back tonight and so so that's gonna be when they have him and Kawhi with Beverly whatever shooter and then Harrell that's going to be a pretty great starting five but I do I have to say this I think the Lakers they have a chance

because of their size because because you know teams are not built that way because of how agile their big men are the ability to protect the realm in the playoffs like that with with mcgee with dwight howard the way he's playing i love that you're counting on dwight howard dwight dwight howard is is for real like he's still he's even hitting free throws now everyone around everyone thinks that and i'm like this is great he's gonna let you down and i'm gonna enjoy it listen but that's why they have they have a two-headed monster you know i'm saying

so you know i think their success is based upon when they play anthony davis they can't do it the whole game because they need they need that shot blocking but they gotta have the death squad with him playing center yeah and the and the floor spread at the end of the game and if they have that with LeBron able to just sort of see the floor and find shooters it could be hard to beat

him. He's going for the assist title this year LeBron. He's got like a two assist lead. Here's my thing with the Lakers I don't trust Dwight Howard I don't trust Davis' health. He already has like three injuries. Yeah. They're already like, yeah, he can't play. His shoulder hurts. And he said him last

night because of his shoulder, yeah. Yeah. And it's, the dude just can't stay on the court. And what it takes to actually win the title, it is eight months. It's a hundred games. And it's really this marathon for nine straight weeks, 16 games, four rounds, or 16 wins, four rounds. I just don't trust that he can make it.

But you know what I see that's different? I see that he's mindful of that now. Yeah. He's mindful of the fact that he has to stay healthy and he has to play a little hurt. Like I see him pushing himself a little bit further. So it depends. Like, you know, I think there's always something that makes a person go to a different level. Maybe being around LeBron is going to do that.

Because, I mean, you can talk about LeBron being hurt last year, but that's the first time in his whole career that he's ever been unable to play. It's not the first time he's been hurt. It's the first time he's been unable to play. He's like the Angela Bassett of the NBA. It's just like you don't even know what year it is anymore with him. He is there. It's like 2018 or 2007.

What's going on? What's love got to do with it when you when you go to the games are the players talking to you and calling you out yeah some of them yeah yeah all the movies you've been in are all like in the wheelhouse of like yeah you know all those guys are doing are watching movies in their suites like they can't go anywhere yeah we're gonna like go walk downtown we're watching we're watching the game in the trailer

yeah so yeah it's yeah we there's a there's definitely you know acknowledgement

I think you need to pick and I think you need to announce the pick between the two LA teams I don't think you can straddle the fence you live here I think you have to

pick a side right now you have to wear a hat do I now. You have to wear a hat. Do I need to pick right now? By December 15th. Okay. I'll come back. I'll come back and pick.

I think you need to make a statement. You go to a game and you got a hat of one of the teams and it's like, he has chosen. It's not fair for anybody to have to pick yet

because Kuzma just came back and Paul George is just coming back. So I think we need to see like a couple of weeks of that. And then we can make an educated guess. That's what I feel is fair. If somebody offers you Clippers tickets, somebody offers you Lakers tickets, which one are you more excited about?

Lakers. Oh, so you already picked. Yeah. No, no. That was a pick right there. That's not a pick. That's not a pick. They just treat you

better when you go as a star. It's the truth. It's the truth. They're more celebrity friendly? They are more celebrity friendly.

See, the Clippers are still working out of the Donald Sterling era. They're still trying to figure out the whole buttering up people part.

They haven't gotten that part now. They need to work on that. Interesting. Well, the Lakers, that's what they're up people part. They haven't gotten that part now. They need to work on that. Interesting. Yeah. Well, the Lakers, that's what they're the best at. They're the best.

Yeah. I'm just saying, if we're talking about the whole experience of a night out, you know. Right. There's a different energy at Laker games, too. Oh, yeah. The Clipper games has a lot of people that don't actually care about the Clippers, but the Lakers have 60 years of fans. Right.

They've been here forever. Yeah. I mean, it matters that you have, you have the banners up, you have championships up there. Like people, there's a, there's a culture of. Generations of fans. Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's a, it's a thing to sit, you know, in a Lakers game.

And, like, it's like the, you know, the Cotton Club of basketball. Right. Right. If Nicholson ever stops going, what actor would you want to get his seats? Because I was making this case to Denzel. I thought Denzel was the natural legacy take did he say he wanted the seats well the weird thing about denzel is he's also a knicks fan he well i was calling him out for being a sports bigamist he's well he's from that he's from there i know that was his point about running yeah so he's like i can like

he's like i'm denzel washington i i can do whatever i want i was like that's a great point oh you are you you can do whatever you want he can yes uh who should get the seats though uh because you could go you could go younger too yeah i'm not sure who deserves to who because it's it's not just about it's a it's who's because it's somebody that's been sitting there you know wanting those seats all these years that deserves it right

it can't be somebody that falls into it yeah and you know I don't know if anybody and I was going to say DiCaprio because I think I see him

at games he's had a lot Leo's probably the safest bet but I think he does work too much I think the great thing about Jack was he, he,

once he hit the mid eighties, he was basically, he's like, I'm showing up at the game. Making his movie schedule around Laker games. Yeah. I don't know if Leo would be ready to do that. I would say he could share it with somebody else because he doesn't,

when he doesn't shoot, he doesn't try to shoot like three and four movies in a year. You know, he shoots, he's like, I'm shooting one big movie that, you know, matters to me. And then the rest of the time he can go to the Lakers games, you know, and he can share it with somebody else if it conflicts. You know, I don't know. When you were at Howard, were you going to Bullets games? Definitely not. I didn't know. When you were at Howard, were you going to Bullets games? Definitely not. I didn't have no money.

Like, what are you talking about? You're sitting there at Bullets. It was way cheaper back then. Nah. Nothing? I was not.

I was not going there, you know. You're not traveling in to see whatever terrible Bullets team was in there? Sometimes I wouldn't even go into our Howard games.

Like, you know. What's going on with the Howard sports team? They ever figure that out? They're working on it. Who's their, who's their like big rival?

I, I, well, it's always Howard Hampton. Right. You know, who's the, who's the real HU.

That's the, that's the thing. But Hampton's usually good, right? Hey, let's not talk about Howard Hampton. All right. We had, we had, you know had some promising moments last year in football.

Cam Newton's brother, little brother. Yeah, was playing quarterback. And other than that, I don't really know what I can point to. See, the thing is, I went to Holy Cross in Massachusetts. It's so easy to be good at basketball. i was looking at the gonzaga model yeah it's it's like basically four scholarships a year right or five whatever right and you just need to make the ncaas once get some people and then all of a sudden you can do that pretty easily you can. Well, that's something a friend of mine, we were talking about. How do you build a really good program at an HBCU?

And you're right. It is much easier. In football, it's like you have to have a whole- Football's impossible. It's like an army of recruiting. You need 50 scholarships. Yeah, it's impossible. Basketball, you need a couple celebrity boosters. I think you count.

Yeah. Get a couple other ones from howard and you guys no and you guys just be like hey we're taking this seriously are you saying we're gonna pay the players no i think you build better facilities you can donate donate better gym or whatever it take better dressing rooms i thought you were like locker rooms i thought you maybe you pay the players at a table yeah maybe this is your sports movie that would if we you play an actor who tries to save Howard basketball, but crosses a couple lines.

Right. Yeah, we can play that whole NCAA thing, player's name. That actually is, hey, we shouldn't even say this. Cut that out. Cut that out. Cut that out. That's going to be the movie.

All right. Thanks for coming on. Yo, thank you, man.