The Bill Simmons Podcast - Charles Barkley on the New NFL Season, NBA Sleepers, Caitlin’s Detractors, and TV Networks Screwing Things Up

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Charles Barkley to discuss their excitement for the NFL season, the new chips on Jaylen Brown's and Jayson Tatum's shoulders (1:20), feelings on the 2023-24 NBA season, a retooled Western Conference, 2024-25 NBA sleeper teams, NBA player movement (22:53), WNBA discourse, stories from Barkley's career, the uncertain future of 'Inside the NBA,' and more (52:19)! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Charles Barkley Producer: Kyle Crichton The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, the Chuckwagon is here. That's right, Charles Barkley next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season

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and present in select states. Gambling problem called Win 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. You know me, I can't go a day without sports. I really can't. And now Monday nights are all about hockey. That's right. There's a new exclusive home for streaming Monday night NHL hockey, and it's on prime all season long. Watch prime Monday night hockey deliver unreal plays. The biggest goals can't miss moments. Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, the NHL is best. They're all on prime prime Monday night hockey. It's on Monday. It's on prime. We're also brought to you by the ringer's best. They're all on Prime. Prime Monday Night Hockey. It's on Monday. It's on Prime. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday.

We did Night Shift, Michael Keaton's first movie. It made him a star. It made him one of the best comedy actors of the 80s, which he doesn't get credit for now because he became Batman. He's been around for a long, long time. But I love this movie. And it was me and Chris Ryan breaking all of it down. You can also watch it on the Ringer Movies channel on YouTube. You can follow this podcast

on the Bill Simmons channel on YouTube. Me and Sal did, what did we do? Overrunners for the AFC and the NFC. We did our favorite future bets, which was super fun. We did guest alliance for week one. And now, what's becoming a tradition here on the BS Podcast, Charles Barkley coming on to talk about football and a little basketball too, obviously.

All right, fine. A lot of basketball. That's next. First, our friends from Pro Gym. All right. Football season is here, which means we have to have Charles Barkley. The world's worst football gambler, top 20 worst football gambler, where do you rank? It depends on how good the team plays. Hell, every gambler knows your team got to play good or bad.

Hey, man, right now, I'm not going to lie, like two weeks ago, it was the game over in Ireland. That was my first bet of the year. Yeah. And then last week, it's full-blown. And now starting tomorrow with Thursday night football, which I'm not going to touch that game because I have zero idea what's going to happen.

Well, that's never stopped you before. Yeah, but I like to have some information going on. So starting last weekend, I was good to go. I'm staying away from that Brazil game. Can you imagine going to Brazil and just they're like, you can't leave your hotel room for three days and then you still have to play a football game? Too many variables. I don't like it.

Yeah, but you know, the Eagles got a lot at stake. You know, last year was a disaster. And they got some jobs riding on their line, man. Because if they have another bad year, heads are going to roll. I mean, they fired Doug Peters after he won a Super Bowl. I mean, can you imagine if they go from losing the Super

Bowl to tanking last year, getting stumped in the playoffs, didn't have another bad year. So I'm really looking forward to this season because I think they're going to be great. I don't think they're going to be good. I think they're going to be great. Really?

So you're doubling down on the Eagles. I'm surprised. There hasn't been a lot of Eagles love in this offseason. Well, you know, I'm an Eagles fan. I know. And I think, this is just my personal opinion,

I'm not a football expert, but I think the coach really screwed up last year, personally, what I think. Because when he lost the offensive and defensive coordinator, he just hired his buddies. Right. And I was like, I don't know if that's a good idea.

Even if you're going to hire them, you still look at other people. Because I think that's what a mistake, because you know, one thing they don't hire them, you still look at other people. Because I think that's what a mistake. Because, you know, one thing they don't do in the NFL, they don't fire coordinators during the regular season. They fire both of theirs in the middle of the season, which never happens. That never happens.

Yeah, there almost has to be like an HR violation for that to happen or something. So I think he made a mistake. I'm a fan of his. But I think that when he just, instead of like, both of those guys got head coaching jobs. Well, let's just know they were terrific coaches. But I don't think you just hire the next man up. Even if you do that, you bring in other candidates because you just never know.

Do you think when the Eagles won the Super Bowl, that changed the psyche of Philly fans at all? Or are they just as crazy as they always were? No, no. Philadelphia is a great sports town. It's kind of like I tell people, I spent my first eight years on the East Coast in Philly. And no disrespect to the Lakers fans and the Bears fans are great. But New York, Philly, and Boston, it's a different animal.

I mean, they love their sports. Like I say, I played in Philly. I played in Houston. I played in Arizona. But, you know, I know all the guys on different teams and I'm a big sports fan. Yeah. There's some about the East Coast. Like I say,

I think New York and Boston and Philly, man, as far as fans, they are, they love you if you, they love you if you give 110%. You're set for life if you win. But I think there's

a different type of intensity on the East Coast fans. That's just my opinion. I think it's a different type of intensity on the East Coast fan. That's just my opinion. I think it's weather-related, at least like 70%. Because you know the weather's going to suck for like five, six months. You played in Phoenix where it's either super nice or it's 200 degrees and you have to get the F out of there. But L.A. is the same way.

The weather's nicer all the time. It's hard to get too mad about anything. What's really crazy, Bill, what you said, I've actually said that before. I do. I think some of the animosity or anger toward teams and other fans because they're stuck in the house for six, seven months a year. Yeah.

And they have to do. I tell people, when I got to phoenix it was really surreal because it was like in october november and december in philly like shit it's cold i'm staying in the house right like you don't want like you go to practice and you go home but you're like no i don't want to go to go outside. Because once it's cold, it's always cold. You don't never have like a day was like 75 degrees in the middle of the winter. Right. When I got traded to Phoenix, you're like, oh, no, no, no. It's 72 degrees. I've got to go do

something. Like I don't, on an off day, you're like, no, no, I got to do something. So I 100% agree with you on the weather aspect. Well, because Minnesota's cold, Buffalo's cold, Detroit's cold. Places get cold. I think the difference with the New York Phillies. But you just named two of the best fan bases in sports. Right. The Vikings fans and the Buffalo Bills, they are two of the best fan bases in sports. Right. I mean, and players will tell you, that the best fan bases in sports. Right.

I mean, and players will tell you, that doesn't like playing in Minnesota or Buffalo. Those are two of the best fan bases. And I do, I agree with you. The weather is crazy. But more spread out in those places. In the cities, you're on top of each other. And you're just like talking to people

and just getting mad about everything. It's also in the DNA. I always felt like with Boston and Philly specifically, and that's why the Paul George movement to Philly, and I've said this on a pod and people are like, oh, you're a Celtics fan. You're just saying that. I really believe it. Paul George has played in Indiana. He's played in Oklahoma City, and he's played for the Clippers. We're literally in LA. Nobody cares about the Clippers. And now he's moving into Philly. And I don't think people realize how intense it is, especially compared to what he came from. that's a really huge advantage for Paul because Joel is the guy. Maxie is the second guy. Paul only has to be the third best player.

Let me tell you something. I said this at the beginning of last season. If Porzingis plays well, nobody going to beat the Celtics. I said that the entire season. I said, hey, and Shaq was giving me a hard time. He's never won anywhere. I said, hey. And Shaq was giving me a hard time. Like, he's never won anywhere.

I said, well, first of all, he had to be the number one guy or the number two guy in those other places. That's a whole different attitude. He only has to be the third best player in Boston. And you see he thrived in that position. There's nobody got a third. I mean, you could argue between him and Drew, who's the third best player.

But as you saw in the finals, if he plays like that, like he played all season and stays healthy, it's going to be tough to beat again this year. I know. The problem is,

I'm not sure we're getting him until All-Star break. Because you know how it goes with NBA injuries. They're like, yeah, it should be December. I just add six weeks to whatever. When it's a long injury, I just add

time to it. I never trust the teams. Yeah, but I think the one thing the NBA did screwing up was pissing off Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. I truly believe that. Oh, we're doing this now? Let's go. Let's do it. No, I think Jalen getting left off the Olympic team

and Jason not playing. First of all, they were already terrific players already. Yeah. And I think both of them are going to have the red ass. That's good for me, though, right? I'm actually glad they got the chips on the shoulder after a title. That never happens. No question.

I tell people, I say, yo, man, I really think both of those guys, number one, they're the defending champs. That's going to take their confidence to another level. But the NBA, I found a way to piss both of them off this summer. How about that? I know. Only the NBA can do that.

Well, like, let's piss off two of the top 10 players in the nba after they are coming off a championship now i don't i seriously i don't think maybe isaiah thomas was treated unfairly on a dream team but i cannot think of any other scenario where the nba pissed off two players more than they did this summer with Jason and Jalen. I really believe that sincerely. Well, and you might add three because Giannis got left off Christmas. They were like, yeah,

you're not even a Christmas superstar anymore. And I think he's putting the chips on his shoulder too. But back to the Tatum thing. So, and I haven't, I've been saving this for you, this take. So Tatum, people in my life have given me a ton of shit about Tatum and Brown and Brown not making the team and Tatum not playing. And I did, I talked to a bunch of people trying to figure out what happened. You know, Tatum, they win, they go through the playoffs. The finals ends

mid-June. They're celebrating for a week. He has a kid. He misses the first two practices. There's only four Team USA practices, right? A bunch of the guys that were there had been knocked out of the playoffs in mid-April, late April, beginning of May. So they come in.

They're all fired up. AD and Bam get to play together. And just Tatum, he can't make a couple shots. And then all of a sudden, it just kind of goes sideways a little bit for him. I think those Olympics has a huge advantage to the guys

who haven't been doing anything since April. Look at the four best guys in that team. Booker, LeBron, AD, Curry. Those guys were on the fucking playoffs in April. All they had to do was get ready for six games. That's my Jason Tatum defense, Charles Barkley. There's

no reason Jason Tatum should have been playing or Halliburton. They gave up their summer to represent their country. There's not going to be a tremendous drop-off. You know what? Maybe I should put Jason Tatum in the game. I'm like, you're not

putting a second-string guy in there. Or Halliburton. You're not. Seriously, you know what, maybe I should put Jason Tatum in the game. I'm like, you're not putting a second-string guy in there. Or Halliburton. You're not, seriously, you're not dropping off. I thought they should have played more. First of all, like... How do you play 12 guys in a basketball game, though? You know how stupid that is.

There's only 40 minutes. They only played two real games. Serbia and France. There was four other games they could have played before then. Jason didn't play in two games. I'm like, come on. I'm not even sure how, Burton. I'm not, I don't forget how many he played in.

When they were playing Sudan the second time, the first time they were screwing around and barely won. But when they beat Sudan by 25, 30 points, come on, you can't get this kid five minutes. First of all, it's the Olympics. You represent your country. You want to be part of the team.

You want to be part of the Olympics. So, like I say, I was disappointed, man, because Jason's a terrific player and a great kid. And same thing with Halliburton. Well, the thing is, I think the mistake was trying to pick the 12 back because the women's basketball team went through this too.

You can only really play 10. So, like, when you were on the Dream Team, Laettner was in one of the spots. You knew he wasn't going to play. Bird was wearing a back brace. You knew he wasn't going to play that much if it actually mattered. And then Stockton got hurt during the playoffs. But you really only needed nine.

Yeah, but when we were blowing people out, those guys got in the game. That's my point. Chuck always said, hey, I'm going to have this team going to start in certain games. And I was fortunate enough to be one of those guys. But when we're on, like Bird, who had a bad back, when we're up 60, he can go out there and say,

hey, I played in the Olympics. That's really cool. That's really special. Same thing with Christian Laettner. Now, can you play 12 guys every game? Probably not. But when you're up 40 points, you can't get a Halliburton and JT

five to seven minutes. First of all, I'm not even still LeBron and KD. Like, yeah, I don't want to be out there when we're up 50. That ain't no fun. Right. Play those other guys. So that was my only problem

with the whole scenario. By the way, you in 1992 fit my Olympics theory. Your ass got sent home. I don't even know if you made the playoffs that year. You were really ready for the Olympics, as opposed to, like, MJ and Pippen had played all through the playoffs, and then you were awesome in the Olympics.

This is my theory. It's actually an advantage when you go to the Olympics. You've been knocked out. The Olympics are the easiest thing to play. Well, for you've been knocked out. The Olympics are the easiest thing to play. Well, for you in 1992 it was. No, but any year the Olympics are the easiest thing to play. Same thing for me in 96. Man,

the better players you play with, the easier the game is. Because, like, when you're a great player, you have to do most of the heavy lifting on your own team. The reason the Olympics, I say, is the easiest,

I'm passing the ball to Patrick Young or David Robertson. I don't have to get every rebound. I'm passing the ball to a guy I know is going to make the shot. You're running the floor. I just have to... I got no responsibility that I have to do.

I know when I played for the six and the sun, I got to get 24 to 10 rebounds every single night. Yeah. You know, when you, when you're a star, you have to get your numbers every single night. We can't have no excuses,

no BS, but on Olympic team, I'm like, I just got to get 12 points, six or seven rebounds. If I move without the ball, somebody going to find me because I know they trust

me. So the Olympics to me are always the easiest to play. I tell people that I still man the Olympics. So the Olympics are like going to summer camp. Well, it turned into fool's gold for the Lakers fans and the Warriors fans because their guys look good in the Olympics.

And now they're like, see, we could be contenders. And it's like, ah, it's probably a little bit different when it's an 82-game season and four playoffs. I don't know if you were watching our show. I went off on the news media last year, made a lot of those clowns on ESPN. I'm like, every day for like three months, are the Lakers and the Warriors contenders?

I'm like, yo, man, I told y'all six months ago, the Lakers stink, the Warriors stink. Why do y'all talk? I did a whole soliloquy. I'm like, why are you guys on the other network? And some of the guys are friends of mine. Why do y'all keep telling us the Lakers and the Warriors are good? The Lakers stink, the Warriors stink.

Think about that. And then when they both got beat, so imagine every playoff bullshit, Bill, that we made up to play in stuff. Yeah. And then the Lakers win one game against Denver. I was like, see, now y'all do y'all thing on TV every day. I told you, the Lakers stink and the Warriors stink.

And right now, they're not relevant, either one of those teams going into the season. Yeah, some of that comes from the producers, which you've been pretty fortunate with in your whole Turner experience. Yeah, but you can't just do that for the hell of it. No, but I did those shows. I was doing TV during the years when

the last kind of years of Kobe when the Lakers were starting to go down and we were still leading with the Lakers. Talk Kobe, talk the Lakers, talk the Knicks. They're just trying to hit the three biggest teams. I thought OKC last year was probably the least discussed team of all the great teams. And then people were surprised when they looked good in the playoffs, like casual fans.

Well, I'll tell you what. And let me tell you something. As good as some—OK, so my sisters had a great summer. Yeah, we'll see. Well, we will see. That's true. But let me tell you something. OKC had a great summer.

They did. Because Caruso and Hardenstein, let me tell you something. Man, they had the best summer. Well, they came damn close to beating Dallas. They did. I was on that corner. And I said this,

and the Dallas fans are getting mad at me, but I felt like that series came down to like two rebounds and three shots. And they were, even that game six, when they found Washington in the corner, they just, I thought OKC was close and they were two guys short and they got the two guys.

They got the two guys. And they got the two role players who are probably like, that's what you want when you have stars. You want guys who are going to do the dirty work. Right. And they went out and got the best, probably two dirty work guys in the NBA.

Well, dirty work guys are back because Drew and Derek White, I feel like. I feel like now everybody knows they need the dirty work guy. Well, yeah, because you got to understand something. Very few players want to play on a team where they're not going to get any shots. Yeah. That's the key.

And Derek White going to get shots because they have to stop Tatum and Brown. So that's what I tell people. I say, man, the dirty work guys are important because every team builds their team around stopping the stars.

Yeah. And you have to make stars pass the ball. And Derek White is always wide open. And what you have to do in that situation is just shake his hand when it's over. Say, hey, you know what? We're not going to let Brown and Tatum beat us.

Derek White beat us. Let's just shake his hand. And same thing. I'm a bigum beat us. Derrick White beat us. Let's just shake his hand and same thing. And I'm a big True Holiday fan. If those guys beat us, because Tatum and Brown, they're going to get X amount of points no matter what. You just can't let them go crazy. You have to pick your poison as we say, hey, let's let Derrick White make these shots.

Derrick White made those shots and the Celtics are champs. Same thing. Porzingis took such a load off those guys, too, because he was their best defender. And, man, I tell you, there's no better three guy in the league than Porzingis when he's healthy. I was just talking about him with somebody about, you know, he comes back for game five of the finals,

but he's hurt. And they're like, you can't make it worse. But he had a real impact on game five. I thought he was one of the reasons they were able to extend the lead and put Dallas away. But if he couldn't have played in that game, I don't, there's an alternate universe of that series that I think Boston was a better team, But that could have been a scary thing if all of a sudden you're going back to Dallas for game six with a 3-0 lead and no Porzingis. They shoot their wide with Porzingis

and then he's out for the rest of the finals because he played the one game. I don't know. It was a little more heroic than maybe he got credit for trying to play. Because now he's out for seven months. Yeah, but I think he was already hurt, to be honest with you. And he was going to have to have surgery no matter what.

But that goes back to, we're talking about Jason Tatum in the Olympics. Yo, man, just let me go out there and try. Let me play so I feel like I'm part of the championship. There's no doubt in my mind, because Zynga's like, I really only played a game and a half. Let me go out

here. Let me show these guys. Let me let these guys know that this means a lot to me. So I was proud of him, because I think he's a good kid. I think he's a heck of a player. And like I said, I said before the season, especially once they got Drew Holiday,

I said, everybody else playing for second place. This thing is over. Everybody else playing for second place, plain and simple. Let's take a break, and I have another Celtics question for you. Football fans. Oh, yeah. The wait is over on FanDuel. The NFL's back.

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you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. So when you look back at last season, the upcoming season isn't that far away. When you look back at what happened last season, how it played out, the Celtics won pretty easily.

They didn't really have a ton of challenges in the four rounds. There was a lot of injuries that went in their favor. The West was all over the place. How are you going to remember that season? Because I think even after the playoffs ended, all of us were kind of like, eh, that wasn't that great of a playoffs. I can't tell if it was an anomaly or what.

They had the best record in the NBA. They really were, you know, injuries are part of the game, but they had the best record in the NBA. They had the best team, in my opinion.

I agree. You know, Jason and Jalen both were top 10 players. Right. Drew Holliday's probably the most underrated player in the NBA. Derek White is a terrific role player. Kazingas is, man, they call his nickname as a unicorn. Like, when he's healthy, his defensive, like, the one game he was healthy,

he had like three or four blocks. Game one, yeah. They turned game one into, let's see how the series goes, to like, man, the Celtics up 30. Right. I mean, they went from zero to 60 so quick. Like, he blocked three shots in the first

half that probably took the whole momentum away from it even being a competitive game. So, you got the crowd in it, too. Yeah, you got to give those guys their flowers.

I think I saw a stat. Only like three or four teams won, I think, 90-something games in the history of the NBA. Yeah, it was 80-plus, right? I think their final record was like 80-21. Yeah, it's like less than 10 games. It's either been done three or four times. Yeah.

And, you know, you factor in, I think that Pozingas missed some games during the regular season. I think Brown, I think Brown, he hurt his face

and he missed a bunch of games. So you factor all that in, you're like, man, this is a really, really good team.

But, but let me tell you something. Let me ask you this question, though. Anybody give you bullshit about this, Bill, you say to yourself, let's look at this Celtics team. Brown, Tatum, Porzingis, Drew Holiday, you can throw

Derek White in there. Yeah, it's like five of the top 50 guys. Easily. Yeah. Easily. By any, on any list. On any list. And first of all, you can actually stop at Brown and Tatum.

Who else have two of the top 10 players in the NBA? I mean, some people would say the Lakers. Oh, well, listen. Go back to our original conversation. That's TV talk. Right. Listen, go back to our original conversation. That's TV talk. Right. Because no other top 10 players in the top 10 are going to be in the play-in bullshit, okay?

Right. Or miss the playoffs. Let me tell you something. The play-in has been great for the NBA, but it's not even a real thing. So don't tell me they got two of the top 10 players in an imaginary playoffs. I mean, they wouldn't have made

the playoffs if we didn't add teams to the playoffs. So I don't really want to hear that. Because the scoreboard speaks for itself. Yeah, it's almost like there's two different versions of what makes

a list like that the best players. Because I do think LeBron, if it's like a playing game, if it's the Olympics, if it's the in-season tournament, if he can ramp it up for a week, he is one of the 10 best players. But I always feel like we discount durability and reliability during the course of regular season like lebron can't really play even 60 games a year anymore like he's got to pick his spots and he's old yes you know and and that the tatum brown thing i always thought i always thought that was the thing they never got credit for it's like day in day out week in week out those guys are playing big minutes big responsibilities guarding the best guys in the other team. Then they're going into the playoffs playing

three, four rounds, 100 game seasons, and they're playing 90% of them, which, you know, even Giannis hasn't been able to do that consistently the last couple years. Yeah, and like I say, that's why I think, man, get those guys their flowers, what they accomplished. And I don't want to hear

about who was hurt on the other team. Let's be real. Because we have that every year. Yeah, but let me tell you something, though. There's not one injury that you could mention and you say, oh, that team would have beat the Celtics.

Okay? If you're going to be fair, anybody who's having this conversation, you can't say to yourself, well, this team had to have this guy man they weren't going to beat the Celtics they were not going to beat the Celtics this year's going to be harder

because I think OKC loaded up, Dallas got a taste of it, the West is better, the West is going to be deep night after night after night Milwaukee's going to be motivated Philly's back, the Knicks are better and it reminds me a little that 93 season you were in that first year you were in Phoenix night. Milwaukee's going to be motivated. Philly's back. The Knicks are better. It reminds me a little of that 93 season you were in

the first year you were in Phoenix. It seemed like everybody was good. It was like, holy shit, I could see 10 teams winning the title. I do feel like the talent level is at that level again. Yeah, but listen. The Knicks have gone to

Miz Harden's time. No question. And they got to figure out the Randall piece too. Like who are their best five at the end of the game. They got to figure it out. That's a really big piece. That's a great point on your point. But the Joel Embiid Paul George scenario,

that's going to be fascinating to watch because I still think it's between them and the Celtics. Because let's get one thing straight. Y'all can talk, these people can talk all they want to about the Knicks. I said, the Knicks cannot beat the Pacers.

And they didn't. I said, because when I'm watching these games, I'm looking for a matchup. I said, yo,, I'm looking for matchups. I says, yo, man, the Knicks are tough. I love Bronson, but they can't beat the Pacers. And they didn't. And so I think you

have to really be like, man, can anybody catch the Celtics? And there's question marks on the Sixers. I love what they've done. I root for the Celtics. And there's question marks on the Sixers. I love what they've done. I root for the Sixers. But let's be realistic.

We're chasing the Celtics. Now, your point on the Western Conference. OKC, I think, got better. The Mavs, I think, are going to regress. Design situation in New Orleans. Can he get himself in shape? I mean, it's year five of that conversation.

I know. We got to sit back and wait. Phoenix. I'm trying to think. My sons, they got no identity and no leadership. But they did get better. Right? I mean, the Tyus Jones thing,

just getting him basically for free was nuts. Yes. They needed a point guard. And the coach, I think, is going to be good for them too. Yeah, but you still got to have leadership on your team, Bill. You got to have a style of play you still got to have leadership on your team, Bill.

You got to have a style of play. You got to have leadership. The Suns have not proven they can do that yet. Well, so what do we make of Devin Booker at this point in his career then? Because I think we all feel like he's one of the best 10 to 15 guys in the league. He's a terrific player.

He was perfect on Team USA. He's been the best player in a finals team, right? That was three years ago. Yes. But the whole dynamic of the team changed when KD and Bill came there. Yeah. You know, so now they got to have leadership.

He's got to take the leadership role because I think he's reluctant because people assume that KD's the best player. I said, but your best player don't have to. Kevin has said he doesn't want to be a leader. He just wants to play basketball. And I challenged Booker last year. And they got mad.

I said, sons don't have any leadership. They don't have a style of play. And they got mad, which I don't care. But I said, it's got to be Booker. He's going to take a serious leadership role because people are going to... People are going to listen to him because he's a great player,

but he's got to become more of a leader, got to be more of a vocal leader, and then we're going to see what happens with the Suns. We didn't mention Minnesota and we didn't mention Big Joker, by the way, who almost beat Team USA by himself with a bunch of guys nobody had ever heard of. He did, but they got to get some bench.

I liked them going out and getting Westbrook, but that team wore down because they didn't do anything to replace their bench players. They let everybody go after they won the championship. Minnesota, I think, will regress. Oh, you're giving them the will regress. They will regress. They got lucky're giving them the will regress. They will regress. They got lucky last year.

Everything worked out for them. They let the Joker down last year because he had to play the whole game against those two big seven-footers. Yeah. And he just got worn down. Yeah. I don't think they're going to let that happen again. Like I said, I love the fact they went out and got Westbrook,

but they still need another big body. One team I mentioned, did you see? We said we had Minnesota, Denver, I guess the Clippers, you could... No, Clippers... I can't count on them ever. Golden State, we're saying no. Lakers, no thanks. Yeah.

We probably missed it, but that's the point. There's so many teams in the... Yeah, I'm trying to think. There's one team I've got. I said, I'm curious to see how they're going to do. It's interesting. You're not interested in Milwaukee at all, huh? You just feel like that runs over? I'm not.

What, you think they're too old? Other than Giannis? I think that Giannis has to get better as a basketball player. Well, he's training with Drew Hanlon this year, apparently. But just going downhill one-on-five is not going to work. Yeah. It doesn't work. And he's a terrific player and terrific kid,

but he's got to get better as a basketball player. So, no, I'm not a Milwaukee guy. Wow. Don't tell Doc. Yeah. Uh, so no, I'm not, I'm not a Milwaukee guy. Uh, I would, if I had to pick, don't tell doc. Yeah. I'm trying to think I, I miss somebody in the West. I can't think of who that is.

I'm going to look it up as you're talking, but answer me this question. Cause I was, I was thinking about this. I was trying to get to the point mentally where I love basketball the most, as you know, it's my favorite sport. But I found myself looking forward to the football

season more than I look forward to basketball season. There's a reason for that, right? Gambling, fantasy, Sundays. Let me tell you something. That means you got some issues. Because let me tell you something. There's nothing better than pro football and college football. As much as I love the NBA,

listen, I'm in heaven right now. The start of football season, college and pros, is the most exciting thing because I admire those guys. Because if you go out there and play football, you're all in. You can't cheat football. You can cheat in a lot of sports,

but if you go out there on the football field, or boxing, I think, is the same way. Yeah. You have to be a grown-ass man, and there's no screwing around. I am so pumped for this football season to start. So you've always been more, you love football than basketball,

even though you're a basketball player. When I realized what it took to play football because i played football one day when was that what grade uh back in high school oh and i realized these guys are fucking nuts and i was like i remember the last thing the coach said to me bill he said i'll see you tomorrow i was like yo i'm not doing this shit tomorrow. Yeah, you won't see me. And I says, coach, I just ran into a guy full speed for two hours. Yeah.

Because I was on the defensive line. And I'm like, I'm not doing this. to know the guys and to like see how much effort pain mental toughness it takes to play football i was like man i love this sport and boxing the same way to me i love boxing yeah and it's some about the sports that like you you can't you can't play football if you're not 100% invested in it. And I love it, man. I do. I love it. It's the best time of the year for me right now.

Well, I was always in the minority of I love basketball the most because I grew up with it. I went to a bunch of great games. But this year was a little different. By the way, the team we left out was Memphis. That's it. Memphis was the... I knew we were leaving, but that's how good the West is that both of us forgot out was Memphis. That's it. Memphis was the... I knew we were leaving, but that's how good the West is that both of us forgot to mention Memphis.

Watch out for Memphis. They got a chance. They're 20-1 to win the conference on FanDuel. They have worse odds than the Lakers. That's just stupid. That's ridiculous. They have worse odds than the Suns.

And they got that big 7'5 kid who's actually, I think, going to play for them and be good. If I was to take a wild card on any team in the West, it would be Memphis.

I agree. Because I think their, I think their coach is terrific. I think Ja's a terrific player if he can keep his head on straight.

They really, they really missed Steven Adams last year. Hopefully, he'll come back healthy. Their coach, I'm a big fan of their coach, Taylor. And let me tell you something, if I had to pick a sleeper, it would be the Grizz. Now it's time for a special part of today's episode

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Here are the four. Cardinals, Bills. It's going to be a lot of offense. Cards as a possible upset pick. I can't wait to watch that game and see how many points are scored and just what the Bills look like. Is their defense even going to be that good? We'll see. Jags to offense. Big Jags comeback season possibly possibly a little Florida rivalry here. Texans Colts. Last time we saw them was when they were fighting each other to get in the playoffs. Now they're back to AFC South rivals. And then last but not least, Bears Titans. You might be surprised to see the Titans in here, but I want to see Caleb Williams. I want him on one of the TVs. So Cards Bills, Jags to offense,ins, Texans, Colts, Bears, Titans. And now

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Device and content restrictions apply. The reason I brought up this football-basketball thing, I was thinking about... This stupid conversation they were having? No, this infrastructure we've created in the NBA where if somebody doesn't win the title, they might go, and there's trade rumors, and, oh, this contract's up in two years.

And I was thinking about some of the guys in football that we were... And quarterbacks don't really switch teams ever, which I think is a real strength for football. Like if you're a Chiefs fan, Mahomes is going to be in your life for 20 years, the, I don't know. I don't know if you're going to get an extension or not. This would be covered every day, except he'd probably demand a trade. Same thing for like Josh Allen on Buffalo losing all his receivers.

It's like, I don't know if I can stay here. No, hold on. I'm fascinated by that conversation. Yeah. Because I understand the Cowboys' perspective. They haven't won jack shit with them. And so they made him the highest paid quarterback like three, four years ago, correct?

Yes. So now they're going to make him a highest paid quarterback again. And he's had one playoff win, I think, or two. And I'm like, well, everybody's acting like they're being disrespectful to Dak. They made him the highest paid football player in the world like four years ago when they have... Because let me tell you something,

that game last year was concerning to me. Because... The Green Bay game. If you are a serious football team, you can't get blowed out like that at home. 48 to 32 at home. You can, and you're down 28 zip in the second quarter

because you ain't made the play. You ain't been a relevant team. You get a home game, a home game. I think you got to win that game I've said this before you don't have to win the game but you can't get blown out like that that was

a scarlet letter as they say I'm like, because I'm sitting there watching that game and I'm going to tell you the truth I obviously bet on Dallas I'm like, there's no way Dallas is going to lose this first home game against really a rookie quarterback, basically, in love.

Coming on the road, Cowboys, you know, they've been talking, they talk a lot, too. They talk a lot. When they get talked about. But they talk a lot, too. Okay? To have an upstart come to your house and be down 28-0,

you're like, yeah, this is bad. This is bad. Like I say, they don't have to win the game, but you can't get beat like that. That's player and coaching blame right there. But they brought the coach back and they brought the quarterback back. Yeah, because this is a last year scenario.

Right. I think... Could argue last year should have been a last year scenario. Yeah, but the way that stupid cap works in the NFL, if you cut a play, I think even if they let Dak go after this, we're still going to count like $50 million against the cap going full. The problem, though, yeah, the problem is because they didn't give him a new contract, all that money hits them this year, which made it harder for them to make the team bad.

So your theory is they should make him the highest paid again? No. My theory is they've won nothing with Dak and they should probably let him go. I'm more interested in the NBA prism of it because we've seen this in the NBA with Zach Levine, Bradley

Beal, some of the guys that got max extensions this year where people are like, well, I guess we got to do it. And you're doing it, and you don't know if this is a path to even make round two of the playoffs, right? But in the NBA, it's like if you don't do it, all of a sudden now you have dissension, not sure if the guy's happy.

And we have so much movement in the league now, and we're so used to it, and it's such a part of the dialogue that I actually think it's really bad. Well, first of all, I think it's always been bad. This is the worst it's ever been. Come on. 100%. I've said this. I'm not just saying it

because I'm on your podcast. I don't understand why bad teams have to pay bad players. I really don't. Wait a minute. If I give a guy $50 million a year and he's just a good player, I'm stuck with him.

And we're stuck losing in the first round of the playoffs. I've always said that. I was like, wait a minute. I'm going to pay Brown and Tatum max dollars. I'm not playing anybody for the Hawks. Well, like LaMelo Ball is a good example, right?

They gave him that extension right away. I don't even think they won 30 games today. I really don't understand why we have to pay. Like I said, first of all, everybody in the NBA can play. Let me get that out of the way. Yeah. But why am I paying a guy who's just a good player $50 million a year for five years?

I can't trade him. We're not going to get better. I've never understood that. Well, now the media deal, the numbers are even going to go up. Oh, my God. Listen, let me tell you something. When this new TV deal kicks in. Where's your cut?

All the ex-players from the 80s and 90s should be getting a VIG. I'll tell you what's going to be crazy. Number one, I'm not a hater. Bless all the guys. Make all the money. Yeah, of course. But we're going to have guys making 80, 90, 100 million dollars. It's going to be

crazy. I mean, it's going to be flat out crazy. Yeah, and coaches making like five. The disparity of the best players versus what the coaches make is crazy. The worst aspect of it to me,

and you know what's going to happen because it's already happening now with guys making 30, 40 million. When we have guys making $90 million and they're load managing you think the regular fan gonna be having that shit hell no it's already it's already happening i know but i think and like i say that's that really concerns me going forward number one i hate load management hey listen i'm pretty sure doctors and nurses and firemen and

policemen, they don't want to work seven days a week sometimes. To play basketball three or four days a week is not allowed to ask anybody. And I don't want to hear about the numbers. These guys who paid all the dues before me played in crappy

shoes, flew commercial, didn't have the best medical shit. We got guys sleeping in crappy shoes, flew commercial, didn't have the best medical shit. We got guys sleeping in chambers now, Bill. I know about 15 NBA players who got bought like a hyperbaric chamber.

I was like, this is impossible. They got chefs and everything. And then these guys are like, yeah, i can't play basketball three or four days a week i'm like are you kidding me yeah but it's gonna get worse when guys start making more money when the new tv deal kicks in well i have like you know somehow i still have the clippers tickets and they traded paul george who was the one guy who actually like was playing i know it's a team built around Kawhi and James Harden.

And it's like, hey, should I go to the Clipper game Wednesday night? Now I got to check. Are those guys going to play? Oh, they're both playing tonight. It's like, I would fucking hope so. Yeah, that drives me crazy, man. Because it's disrespectful to the game first and foremost. And it's really disrespectful to the fans.

I mean, come on, man. Listen, God bless all these guys that are making $450 million, but come on, you've got to play basketball. And listen, once the season starts, something always hurts. Yeah. So set the fuck up. Rub some, I take Shaq, rub some Icy Hot on it and go play. Everything hurts.

I mean, I'm gonna tell, I tell people, man, I always felt bad. I try not to ever miss a game. I took so many shots of Toradol in my ass. Uh, that, what's that, that horse, that horse shit, uh, DMSO that's made for horses. What's that horse shit? DMSO that's made for horses. You took that? Oh, yeah. Man, I wanted to play. I have an obligation to the teammates and to the fans.

Oh, yeah. It makes your breath smell like shit, too. But let me tell you something. There was times I could barely walk. When I got that DMSO, I was like, can I run a marathon? Like, it was unbelievable. But between that and Toradol, I'm trying to think. I think that was the only guy that stuff I took the most.

But I didn't care. I'm not worried about the future, number one. My teammates mean a lot to me. I always wanted to play. I'm not going to sit over there and cheer them on just because I'm a little sore. That's not going to happen. Yeah, so you come into the

league and you're playing with Doc, the original Doc, Dr. J, who had been playing basketball since the early 70s, wearing shitty sneakers, jumping. He was having knee problems. Hey, Bill, my first two years in the NBA, I flew commercial.

Right, you have to hang out with the reporters. You sit next to the beat guys. But Dr. J played, he played 16 years. The worst thing about it was some old lady, I tell you what, like, I get to a certain city and my shoulder was fucking killing me. And after a minute, I said, what's wrong with my shoulder was fucking killing me. Yeah. And after a minute, I said, what's wrong with your shoulder, Rook?

You hurt your game? You hurt your arm in the game last night? I said, yo, man, I had this old lady sleeping on me back in coach. And you don't want to be an asshole and wake this old lady up. Yeah. Yeah. But then you get to the, you go to the hotel, sleep all afternoon, then go to the game and you can't lift your arm. And it's like, man, I had this old lady

leaning on me the whole time in coats. I mean, I got so many good stories about that, man. It's hilarious. Well, that's the thing. Like Dr. J played, what, 15 years? 100 years. 16 years. Havlicek played 16 years.

But you can't even count Dr. J. Remember, he played in the ABA first. Right. And that was probably... Think about it. What about all the years he played in college? Right. That's what drives me crazy about these guys today. I'm like, y'all don't even go to...

Now you go to college for six months. You come to the ABA... Less than that. It's like five. Yes. And I'm like, yo, man, you guys are so lucky and blessed. You make all this money. Just play basketball. Listen, you're never going to play more than four games a week ever. Adam Silver, who I love and respect, killed all the back-to-backs.

He killed all the back-to-backs. So you don't have to play back-to-back games He killed all the back-to-backs. So you don't have to play back-to-back games anymore. But I know what they're doing. I wish they... You know how when somebody lie to you and you know they're lying? Yeah.

I wish they would say, hey, guys, the reason I practice load management is I'm trying to extend my career a couple years so I can make an extra 50, 60, $70 million.

Just tell me the truth, because that's why they're doing it. Because if you go back and look, and I've seen some of the numbers, if you miss 15 to 17 games a year, you're probably going to give an extra two years, at least one, but more than likely two. If you miss 10 to 15, 20 games a year, you're going to add a couple extra years to your career. Just tell me you're trying to get extra years and make money.

Don't tell me basketball is too hard on your body. You're not playing in fucking Chuck Taylors. Come on, give me a fucking break. Well, and the playoff games, if you've been in a lot of playoff games, those are like, what, worth a game and a games those are like what worth a game and a half on your body and like I say

a lot of these teams don't even practice anymore yeah Steve Kerr always talks about that he has these young teams and they're in a ball room like running through plays and they're not even like on a practice court a lot of these guys on killed shoot arounds so they just show up two hours before the game we'll walk through the plays then so Not even like on a practice court. A lot of these guys on killed shoot-arounds.

So they just show up two hours before the game. We'll walk through the plays then. So, hey, bless these guys. But, man, just play basketball. Let's take one more break. At Pennzoil, we have one job, pioneering a motor oil so advanced, you don't have to think about your motor oil. Instead, you can think about how your engine sounds, how your stomach feels as the RPMs build, We'll be right back. Long may we drive. Available at your local Canadian tire. Enrollment required. Keep your receipts. Other conditions apply.

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I don't know because I think he's got a bright future, but I don't know how I think he's got a bright future, but I don't know how good. We mentioned them. Well, they're a year away. Yeah, they weren't exactly going for a title. They're a year away?

Yeah. Well, I don't know. If he becomes a top three or four guy in the league, that moves up the timetable. They're going to have to get some other good players because the West Sacramento got better. We didn't even mention them.

Going out and getting DeMar DeRozan is a great pickup. Damn. Yeah. This is why I brought it up. I'm trying to think. Who are they better than in the West? Portland.

Maybe Portland. They're better than Portland. They're definitely better than Portland. And maybe the Clippers, if Kawhi is going to be a 25 game a year. I love that big boy from Connecticut that Portland got in the draft. Oh, Donovan Klingin. I love Klingin. I love him.

And listen, I will tell you this about the Lakers. I have zero idea why Kadek slipped to them that low. That kid should have went much higher. When I was getting ready for March, I watched him play a couple times during the regular season,

probably three or four times. But watching him, breaking down tape on him, doing... Yeah, he's good. I was like, man, he know how to play basketball. But that's like the Lakers are going to be a soap opera this year.

New coach, LeBron's going to be what is he, 40 now? LeBron playing with his son. They might not be that good. There's probably 10 West teams that could potentially be better than them. Guess what? ESPN will be leading that first segment with the Lakers.

No question. OKC's won 24 straight, but let's go to Los Angeles where the Lakers have lost two in a row. Is JJ Reddick on the hot seat? Is JJ on the hot seat? They've only won four of their last 10. Yeah, I mean, man, it's so much. You know, that's the thing I love about our job and I hate about our job

because I love telling people Shea Gildress Alexander. We don't ever show OKC. I love Shea Gildress Alexander. There's some good ones. This, the under 25 is a pretty good crop right now it's very similar to

where you guys were in the in the mid to late 80s when that new class was coming up yeah i know you see how quick they turned on uh luca in the finals i was like i know that was bullshit i didn't like that lucas the only reason they're in the finals i I mean, and then after game one and game two, they're like, Luka can't play any defense. He's the reason the self is up two zip, three zip. I'm like, wait a minute. He's the only reason they're in the

finals. Is he afraid? I'll tell you, I was fucking terrified every time he had the ball or took a shot. He is a 10 out of 10 when you're rooting against his team. I'm terrified of him the whole time. I do think he needs to get in better shape on the one hand, but on the other hand,

maybe this is the right shape for him because he's so fucking big. He can bully ball everybody. Well, I think he needs to get in better shape, but he's the only reason, no disrespect to Kyrie, but he's the reason they were in the finals. But I just love,

I love the fact how quick these talking heads turn on these players. Like I say, the week before, we were bragging, man, this Luka Doncic, is he the next great player? Is he going to grab the torch? Did he take it from Jokic?

I did that podcast. Yeah, because like, two weeks before, this is how full of shit people in our business are, Bill. Yeah, because like, but like two weeks before, this is how full of shit people in our business are, Bill. Like the week before, Michael Jordan is reincorporated when Anthony,

when they were sweeping the suns, he's dunking on KD and everything. They're like, this guy, Anthony Edwards, I said, yo, man, please stop. I love Anthony Edwards. He's not freaking Michael Jordan. Please stop.

Please stop. Then they get beat by the Mavs. And they're like, He cooled off freaking Michael Jordan. Please stop. Please stop. Then they get beat by the Mavs. He cooled off. Oh, my God. What are we seeing in Luka Doncic? What are we seeing? And then when the Celtics have had

a much better team, go up 3-0. Luka Doncic don't play any defense. He's the reason I'm like, wait a minute. Y'all went from he's the second reincarnation of Bird

and somebody else combined. But that's the thing I hate about our business, man. There's a lot of a lot of guys out there where they turn quickly. Luka Doncic is the only reason they were in the finals.

Period. You know, the Anthony Edwards Jordan thing. And I was trying to be as you know, I'm, I'm always going to be in the Jordan's the best player I've ever seen camp unless until somebody passes them.

And for me, it hasn't happened yet, but it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't happened yet. There were flashes of Edwards and I'm sure you felt it too. And you even got to play against Jordan. He had some moments in those first two rounds where it was like, Oh yeah,

that, yeah, that there there's glimpses. And Kobe, you even got to play against Jordan. He had some moments in those first two rounds where it was like, oh. Yeah. That, yeah. That, there's glimpses. And Kobe, young Kobe had the same thing. There were some Kobe moments where it was like, oh. But we're never seeing another Jordan. I think what's interesting about Edwards for me, and I'm not just saying this because you're on the pod,

he has such like a life and a positive energy and such a great personality that it reminds me of when you came in in the mid eighties and everybody was like, you know, it was a really good interview with Charles Barkley. Oh, you know, who's really fun. And the personality started to become part of the package for you. And I think that I, to me, like the league needs somebody like him. That is just, I just think he's this enchanting guy. You could feel it in the Olympics. He was like in the middle of everything. Well, I think that, not patting myself on the back.

And I think Anthony, what I've seen is, yo man, we're just basketball players. We're not teachers. We're not firemen. We're not policemen. We making a ridiculous amount of money i'm getting paid to play a stupid ass game i've always known that and i think anthony knows that i think yannis practices that uh also yeah but you know what you know what edwards has though there there's an

authenticity to him yeah that i think is harder and harder to find in sports in 2024 when everything is so managed. Everybody has a team. Every decision is made with such a purpose publicly. And you were never like that. You're just like, here's what I think.

And everyone's the same way. It's like, here's what I think. Here's what I think. I'm going to be honest. Because what happened to me, I have a turning point in Philadelphia

because, you know, first of all, everybody wants to be liked. Anybody, I love when I hear guys say, two things that drive me crazy about players. I don't watch television

or read the newspaper. Shut the fuck up. Of course you watch television and read the newspaper. What are you doing? Are you just sitting in your house in the dark the whole time? Please stop there. Also, they're trapped in a hotel room or their place out there because they're fucking famous. They can't go anywhere.

You know what's even worse? Their mom, their dad, their wife, their girlfriend all fucking tell them when they hear somebody say something about them. So shut the fuck up telling me you don't pay attention. But my second thing is I don't care what other people think. Everybody cares what other people think. But they have to be fair.

So for me, it was my second year in the league. I had to sit down with Dr. J. I said, Doc, I'm getting some of the stuff I'm saying, I'm getting some blowback. Right. So we sit down. He says, son, what are you asking me? I said, man, I want everybody to like me. He looked at me. He says, oh, what are you asking me? I said, man, I want everybody to like me. He looks at me.

He says, oh yeah, you're just wasting your time. Trying to, it doesn't matter what you say. Everybody's not going to like you. You're going to have to make a decision. Well,

you're just going to be a straight shooter and they still going to hate you half the time anyway. But you can't play volleyball with your opinions. You can't be trying to say something to appease this group and get over here and say something about this group. And I said, so if I just be straight honest, he says, that's the best way to be, but you're going to get blowback on that anyway. So Bill, that's when I made up my mind. I'm like, hey, you know what? I cannot make all these people happy. Half of them are going to hate me and half of them are going to like me or whatever. And I said,

I'm going to just tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Well, you made a lot of tape recorders happy back in the beat recorder days. These guys have a job to do. I've always understood. See, this is one thing I hate about players. They want all the money

and all the accolades and all the stuff that goes with this, but they don't want any of the responsibility. I'm like, yo, man, you sign autographs, you take pictures, you talk to the press, all that bullshit goes with being rich

and famous. You don't get to not, yeah, people are going to interrupt you at dinner sometime. Reporters are get to not, yeah, people are going to interrupt you at dinner sometimes. Reporters are going to run to you. And this is another thing that drives me crazy. They run to the reporters when they have a good game

or things going good. Right. And then when they have a bad game, they want to be smug with the press, give you one-word answers. I'm like, no, man, you don't get to get your cake and eat it too.

Most of the reporters I've ever met have been great people. They got a job to do. When I played great, they wrote great things about me. When I didn't play great, they wrote some criticism. And the first thing, Dr. J, after we had that conversation, he says, the first thing you have to ask yourself about criticism, is it fair? He says, before you get mad at that reporter or something like that, look in the mirror and says, was the criticism fair? And sometimes it was, and sometimes it wasn't. Yeah. I remember in the late seventies, Dr. J took a ton of shit because remember he was coming in the league and people were like, this guy's going to be amazing.

He's going to revolutionize basketball. And then the Sixers, they lost in the finals. Then the next two years, his knees were hurting. He wasn't doing that well. And this was a theme for two years, but we didn't have the same media infrastructure back then. But it was a lot of what's wrong with Dr. J. There's Sports Illustrated pieces about it.

Now that stuff's like a hundred times bigger. The stuff that happened to you in Philly in the early nineties, in the social media era would be so much bigger now. Yeah. It was crazy because I had to hear about me getting traded my last three years in Philly. Yeah. getting traded my last three years in Philly. And it was stressful. The sport news came out with a cover. It had me in like eight different jerseys. It was wearing on me. Yeah.

But I'll tell you a funny story. So I get arrested in Milwaukee my last year in Philly. Is that the window incident? No, that was Florida. These three weightlifters accosted me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So I get arrested. So I'm in Milwaukee on trial. You were on trial? I don't remember that. Oh, yeah. I was on trial. Trust me.

Oh, man. It's like you and OJ. That's right. I didn't kill people. So I spent every day with my lawyers, obviously, in court. But at night, we would sit around. I made my mind like, let's work on this letter to the Sixers. I'm not fucking coming back.

Too much baggage. Too much baggage. So we spent all week writing this letter. Because I said, hey, I don't want the fans involved. You guys, handle this how you want to. I want to thank y'all

for eight great years. It's been incredible. Philadelphia has always treated me great. It always be a special place in my heart. I had this beautiful letter written and I would like to keep this private because I don't want the fans to think

I just had enough of y'all. I had enough of the organization. And so I get acquitted on a Friday. I fly back to Philly. I bought a whole

plane drinks. I'm on cloud nine. Me and my boys go out Friday night, celebrate. We get drunk. Saturday night, we get drunk. Sunday, I'm on the phone with my agent and my attorney.

Send this shit out first thing Monday morning. Two hours later, I get a phone call from the Sixers. I've been traded to the Phoenix Suns. man,

the whole world is lifting off my shoulders. I felt it was crazy, Bill. I was so ecstatic I called my friends I was like hey the letter going out tomorrow then I called my

no need for the letter what happened I just got traded to the Phoenix Suns and man we went out and had some it was the best alcohol I think I've ever had in my life we celebrated and the next day I think I've ever had in my life. We celebrated. And the next day, I was on a flight to Phoenix.

So do you identify at all when some of these players get unhappy? I mean, the unhappy thing is much faster now. Somebody can go to a new team and be unhappy at 18 months. That's because the assholes in the media, they've made it seem like if you don't win the championship, you're a bomb or it's the end of the world. The reason Michael will always be my GOAT

is he went through all those struggles. I look at all these other guys, like as much as I love LeBron, he lost one time. He went to the finals. But he lost to the Celtics. Like, no, I'm gone. Like, yeah, you're supposed to

win a championship. It's supposed to be hard to win a championship. Well, he did it in 14 too. That was leaving Miami. No, maybe that was the plan to leave Miami. Yeah, but I was like, yo, man, it's supposed to be hard. Yeah. I saw the same thing with KD. Like, yo, man, it's supposed to be hard. Yeah. I saw the same thing with KD.

Like, nah, like, dude, you ain't supposed to. It's supposed to be hard to win the championship. But that's the thing. That's why I brought up the football example before about, like, somebody like Josh Allen, who hasn't even been in the Super Bowl, right? And he's been there for a while. He's one of the best players. But he ain't there.

See, first of all, I'm so glad you bought this football stuff up. I want to say something that's really pissing me off. I've had enough of this Belichick slander. I've had enough. Now you're preaching the choir. I'm going to tell you guys something.

I am so sick of all these idiots and fools on television, bad-mouthing Bill. Because I'm sitting back like, this guy went to the Super Bowl nine times, one, six. And

just because y'all don't like his personality, you're like, I hear guys talking about you can't coach like that anymore. I'm like, you mean like the greatest coach ever?

Right. And I was just like, well, he didn't do anything without that anymore. I'm like, you mean like the greatest coach ever? Right. And I was just like, well, he didn't do anything without Tom Brady. I'm like, well, Tom Brady didn't play by himself, and I love Tom. I got a number of love and respect for Tom, but I'm like, exactly how many championships has Andy Reid won without Pat Mahomes? Andy Reid got fired in Philly. Yeah. I said, well, Mike Tomlin.

I'm a Mike Tomlin fan. Exactly how many Super Bowls did he win without Roethlisberger? Sean Payton, great coach. I consider Sean a friend. How many championships has he won without Drew Brees? So this, just because

you don't like a guy, Bill Belichick is the greatest football coach ever. I saw Tom say that recently and I 100% agree. I'm just sick of the Belichick slander and I'm sick. Damian Woody. There's two people at ESPN who I like.

Damian Woody and Louis Riddick. That's it? That's the entire list? Oh, Mike Will Bond and Kornhauser. I love those guys. They're like brothers to me. Older brothers, I mighthauser I love those guys, they're like brothers to me older brothers I might add I love those guys but Damian Woody said

something, because they were talking about how overrated Josh Allen was and he went crazy he's like, wait a minute yeah let's look at his games against Pat Mahone, they're talking at his games against Pat Mahomes. They're talking about nobody can beat Pat Mahomes.

That football game, where Pat got down the field and won in overtime. 13 seconds. Yeah. Best football game I've ever seen. That's not Josh Allen fault. Right. And even last year. They almost beat him.

Well, it's Josh Allen's fault. They missed the field goal that would have took the game probably in overtime. And these guys get on TV talking about Josh Allen's overrated. And Damian Wood says, I'm not having any more of this Josh Allen slander. He's played as well as he could against Mahomes both times. And neither time he lost was his fault. Yeah. And I'm just so sick of the Belichick and the Josh Allen slander.

It's just flat out ridiculous, man. You guys are entitled to opinion, but you have to be fair. Because people believe what we say on television. Yeah. That doesn't mean you're right, but you have to be fair. Bill Belichick is the greatest football coach ever in the pros. Nick Saban is the greatest college coach ever. But just because people don't like you or your personality,

they can't get on TV and slander you. It's just total bullshit. Well, that's why the growth of the WNBA, you know it's starting to become serious when there's really stupid discourse about the league and the players. I'm like, oh, you guys have made it. Hey, man. Welcome. These ladies, and I'm a WNBA

fan. It's been a good season. They cannot have fucked this Caitlin Clark thing up any worse if they tried. If you got people in a room, if you got a bunch got people in a room, if you got a bunch of dudes in a room

that says, let's fuck up the WNBA, we couldn't have came up with a master plan what these women have done. This girl is incredible. What she did in college for women's basketball, what she's doing in the WNBA. She turned the fever over one and eight. They have a winning record now.

But the number of attention, eyeballs, she's brought to college and the pros. And for these women to have this petty jealousness, you say to yourself, damn, what is going on here? Well, you say to yourself, damn,

what is going on here? Well, you got accused of that stuff too with the older players being resentful of the

new generation. It's kind of part of the basketball process. Everybody thinks their generation's the best. No,

no. Anytime we say something about guys, it ain't the old get off my lawn guy. But the stuff toward her

is petty and jealous. The thing I love about her, she never says a word. Now, when I watch her, two things I like. She's playing much faster. Yeah.

Much faster. She was playing too slow the first half of the season. I think she was tired. I think she was banged up from the college season. They didn't even give her the understanding like, you girls been worried for the WNBA season?

Y'all been working out? She came straight out of college. You had to go right to the WNBA like two weeks later. So they didn't practice there. But I think when I watched her play the last month, I think she's learning to play much

faster because I think she's learning to trust those girls more. Because when she's in college, she's not passing to a bunch of great players. Now you can see when she plays, she's playing a lot without the ball. She reminds me a lot of Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd's she plays, she's playing a lot without the ball. She reminds me a lot of Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd's the best

I've ever seen with playing without the basketball. I played with Jason Kidd one time in an All-Star game. He says, you know you should be getting like six to eight points

a game more, right? I said, what are you talking about? He says, I'm going to kick it ahead to you. He says, your point guards wait and give you the ball too late. If I

give you the ball full speed ahead instead of waiting for you to finish, you get another eight to ten points a game. She's starting to see now, if I play faster and give it to them sooner, so that tells me she's really smart. But these ladies who I love and respect

their game, they couldn't have fucked this thing up any worse. Because we have talked, and respect their game, they couldn't have fucked this thing up any worse. Because we have talked, and talk about Aja. Aja Will is the best woman player in the world right now. She's incredible. Connecticut Sun's having a great year.

Memphis, Minnesota Lynx is having a great year. But there's been so much negativity and a lot of it is just petty jealousness. And I love the way she just, and I'll tell you what really good happened to her, not making the

Olympic team. Totally agree. Well, that's what gave her a break. That's what I was getting ready to say. Yeah. Giving her that time off has given her a chance to recharge her batteries. So, it ended up, she probably did deserve to make the Olympic team on merit,

but her getting that time off probably was the best thing that happened to her. Well, the other thing that happened, her teammates, you could see like a little osmosis. You watch that team now, and they're pretty unselfish to watch. Like they're making extra passes and it's the kind of stuff that happens

when you're playing with a great player. Well, but some of that is her fault. Which I've enjoyed. But some of that's her fault, Bill, because she, like I say, I think she had one other girl on our team who made it to the WNBA. But she's learning now,

I can play without the ball. That goes back to, remember when Tex Winter, it says Michael. Oh, the triangle. You have to trust these other guys. Because first of all, it's going to make it easier on you

playing without the ball. It's much easier. Like for me, I can use myself as an example. Not that it's about me. When I got traded to Phoenix and they gave me Dan Marley, Kevin Johnson, Sid Sabalo, and those guys,

man, it goes back to the stuff I told you about the Olympics. Man, it was just so easy for me to play basketball because I didn't have to make every pass. I didn't have to score every basket. I didn't have to score every basket. And I think Caitlin is learning that now. Like, oh, I can trust her. I can trust her. I can trust her.

I can trust her. I tell people, that's why I said earlier about the Olympics. Man, the game is so easy when you play with better players. The game is only hard when you play with guys who suck. You know?

You know, like, because everybody is looking at you. They're like, Chuck got the ball. Every defender is looking at you. But when you're playing with Marley, KJ, Cesar Balos, when I won MVP, that was the easiest basketball I ever had to play. The other thing they have to figure out is anecdotally, I can't believe how many people in my life have been watching WNBA and have hardcore opinions on it.

I'm getting an Angel Reese versus Kaitlyn Clark Rookie of the Year arguments and first team on NBA. They got to figure out the schedule for the playoffs because I just think going against football is just a no-win situation. I would love to see them try to figure out the little nooks

so that they can actually get attention. The number one thing they got to do is find a way to let people know what the damn games are. Right. Well, that's another issue. It's on four places. It don't even matter about the playoffs. Yeah. If you have to go

to... I was watching some game that's called ION it's been huge for ION it's been good for them I was like damn no you can't ask basketball fans to try to find ION

they were about to make you a big offer now they're going to pull it hey listen you just lost your eye on money. Hey, listen, man. Let me tell you something. Hey, you've got to wait until that LinkedIn profile come out.

I was joking around. I'm going to file out a LinkedIn profile and it's going to be like, I've never had a real job. So I don't even know how to write that down. Like, what's on your resume? I'm like, well, I've never had a real job. Basketball player.

Basketball player. But that's not a real job. They're going to be like, well, that's not a real job. I said, no, it's not. But they paid me, so I call it a real job. Well, I mean, the most impressive thing you've done, I think you broke Muhammad Ali's record for most times retiring. No, actually, you know, I'm so glad you asked me that question.

It's not a question. It's a fact. No, no, Bill, let me tell you something. I love when people say that message. Well, if you would ask me, they would listen to what I said. I have been very specific on my retirement. You're not retiring. Well, I am at some point. Come on. You love this.

What are you going to retire for? You're still fantastic at this. No, because I'm over 60. Who cares? 60 is the new 50. Yeah, okay. That's what all young people say. Wait till your ass get my age.

So my original game plan was to retire at 60. I made that. And I told TNT, I said, I'm retiring at 60. And they're like, okay. And I said, hey, I'm just giving you all a heads up. I'm retiring next year. They're like, you got to stay till the new deal is done. I'm like, fuck.

Oh, because they needed you for the negotiation? Yes. But little did I know they were going to fuck that up. And I was like, I said, you know what? You guys have been great to me. Yeah. I'll stay for two more years.

So, next year was supposed to be my last year, and I was going to walk off into the sunset. But little did I know, like I just said, because it would have been perfect to pass the torch to Vince Carter or Jamal Crawford. Hey, 25 years, thank y'all, I'll be 62 years old. And the marketing race came. I said, oh, this is actually even better for me. I can walk away after next year and don't

have to worry about going to another network. Yeah. And so when they came to meet with me, they're like, we want to keep doing this show. I was like, what? we don't even have basketball and so it really put through me for a loop the only good thing about it i got to keep a lot of people their job yeah but i made it very clear man i'm going to keep working forever.

I'm going to do at least one more year so everybody can keep their job for another year. First of all, I have zero idea what we're going to do. Let me get that out of the way. Well, you have basketball next year at least. Yeah, so we were already going to do next year no matter what. But they said they want to keep doing the show a year after that. And I said, guys, I can't just keep working to be working.

Like, I really, I tell people, yo, man, this ain't my real job. This is my sucker job. And I said, and listen, I ain't worried about death.

It's the big fella going to come get us all. But I don't want to die on TV. I'll be 62 years old. I've been working or been in the limelight since I was 18. I'm a grandpa now.

You've 40 years since when you did make the Olympic team. Yes. I'm like, man, I'm good. Y'all have given me the greatest life a person could have. I love y'all. Thank y'all. Thank y'all. Thank y'all. At some point,

I want to retire sooner than later, plain and simple. I don't think you're going to retire. Well, it's going to be interesting because I have zero idea what we're going to do because we won't have basketball. You're talking a year from now. Yes.

But I have zero idea what we're going to do. Wouldn't it make more sense for one of the partners just to grab the show, though? What makes it even funnier, they don't even have no idea what we're going to do. So I'm sitting in this meeting in Philly.

I'm like, we want to keep doing the show. I was like, what do you mean? We want to keep doing the show. I was like, what do you mean? Like, we want to keep you all together. I says, well, I would consider that because I want all my friends to keep their jobs. I said, what are we going to do? They're like, we haven't figured that out yet. I'm like, what?

I says, we won't have basketball. What the hell are we going to do? And so that's the thing. That's the thing that's fascinating. Like I say, I know we got one more year with the NBA. Then we're going to lose it. And they want to do the show at least another year. But I'm like, we don't even have basketball.

We're going to pay for highlights. So they were saying, we'll figure it out. But they just lost the NBA. so tough maybe to have the trust that the next decision is going to go awesome it's like you just fucking lost the NBA over like four conference finals games and I got a truck y'all

it's like hey it is what it is brother well listen I mean it's certainly the most imitated show Hey, it is what it is, brother. Well, listen, I mean, it's certainly the most imitated show. I still think people don't completely understand why it works so well. You're the biggest reason. But four people with chemistry, with a host that drives it.

I remember coming to see you in Atlanta in like 2002 to write about it. And the show hasn't changed really since 2002. It's the same formula. And yet everybody else fucks it up. Like, remember the women's basketball in the college tournament? And the ESPN, they had a really good studio show with three people. And they were excellent. And then it got to the final

four and they're like, we're going to bring in two more people. Now we have five. It's like, you guys just fucking struck oil with the show. What are you doing? They can't help themselves. You know, if people would understand, you have to have a mixture of basketball and fun.

And people like, you can't be all fun and no basketball. You can't be all basketball because you're trying to reach two different audiences. I always tell my sisters, we already got the basketball fans. We already got that. The people going to watch basketball are going to watch.

The key is, can we make it fun for the wife, the girlfriends, and the kids? They give us complete control. They give you time to talk. They give you seven to ten minute segments, which is another thing people don't realize. A hundred percent. They give you time to talk. They give you seven to ten minute segments, which is another thing people don't realize. A hundred percent.

A hundred percent. They give you time to breathe and do your thing. Yeah, it's funny. Hey, Bill, I'll tell you something. There's times when we're talking and they're like, we got to go to commercial. And we'll be like, shut the fuck up. We're not done.

Right. Let's keep going. Nobody want to see another fucking commercial. We're holding. Because like sometimes they'll be in your ear. I'm like, hey,

shut the fuck up. We're still talking here. Right. Because I thought, yo, man, you can't, like sometimes you need time to explain, especially when you're talking about something serious.

But sometimes you're trying to explain something and they're in your damn ear like, we got to go, we got to go. I said, what the hell are we going? We hear from seven to two in the morning. You can't hold a commercial for another damn minute. Well, you guys figured it out, whatever it was. The other thing that people I think miss with it is

the four of you would have that combo anyway. I know we've made these points a million times, but it has to have four people. And I think it's either four or three. It shouldn't be five, but four people that would hang out and talk basketball, regardless of whether the cameras were on. And they never figured that part either. They'll just throw, they think it's like a fantasy team. And we'll see what happens with these new deals when Amazon and NBC are putting people together and be like, wow, we got this, got this. And we'll see what happens with these new deals when Amazon and NBC are putting people together. They'll be like, wow, we got this. We got this.

And they put no thought into, well, would those three people hang out together? Yeah, that's what's going to be fascinating. In what respect? Like, putting their teams together. Yeah. Because

you just can't cherry pick people. Like you said, they got to have chemistry. You say like, yeah, I want to hang out and talk basketball with this guy or this girl.

So who NBC and Amazon put together is going to be amazing. I'm still not ruling you out. It still feels like the smartest solution to all this is just to take the entire infrastructure you guys have and move it to a different network that is basketball. And I don't understand why that wouldn't happen.

Well, number one, I don't think Ernie would go. I don't think Ernie would go. Because he doesn't want to leave Atlanta? Yeah, Ernie wouldn't leave Atlanta ever. So film it in Atlanta. Well, listen. We got to work on Ernie. Well, I listen, we got to work on Ernie. Hey,

everything is on the board. I, yeah. Hey, Hey Bill, I, as I told you earlier, I have,

we have zero fucking idea what's going to happen after this year. Zero. Well, as I, I think you have like three or four more retirements in you over the next like 12 months. It's going to be like, but Ali just kind of is like Spinks. This is it. I'm done. I saw him fight. It's going to be like when Ali is like, Spinks, this is it.

I'm done. Spinks too, I'm back. Muhammad Ali is one of my heroes. I actually just watched the Larry Holmes fight sometime in the last couple weeks. I love watching old boxing matches. Not that one.

That's a bad one. Well, you know, boxing's had an incredible resurgence. It's another one. Boxing ugly. That's a bad one. That's a bad one. Well, you know, boxing's had an incredible resurgence. It's another one. Boxing and the WNBA are the two winners of 2024. There's more good boxing fights that we've had in a while. Yeah, but they won't all fight each other.

That's the one thing I hate. Boxing's my second favorite sport, I told you. But now they're starting to fight each other because the Saudis are like, here's money. Five to ten years. I know. Because Mayweather and Pacquiao

should have fought five years before they fought. I know. But now we're in a good spot. Have you seen Bacoli, the heavyweight, who looks like George Foreman? I have, but let me tell you something. That's my guy. But listen, Anthony Joshua is a stud. But I want to see...

They got Canelo to fight next weekend. Yeah. Against Berlanga. Ben Avedis to me. You got Bud Crawford out there right now. Man, it's some good fights that they would make them. The heavyweights are good. No, we got some good cards coming up.

I'm bullish on boxing. All right, Chuck. What's your football prediction before we go? Who do you have for the Super Bowl? Well, my Eagles are going to the Super Bowl. Okay. I didn't know if you were serious with that, but we're going for it. Eagles against who?

The Buffalo Bills. Buffalo Bills? And the Buffalo Bills win their first Super Bowl. They are the most underrated great team ever. To make it to four straight Super Bowls will never, ever happen again. I got the Eagles against the Bills, and the Bills win their first Super Bowl. So I have the Lions over the Texans. Oh, my God.

Let me tell you something. I got a man crush on Dan Campbell. I love that dude. I love Mr. Dan Campbell. Let me tell you something. I was on the Lions bandwagon all last year. Yeah, you loved him. I love Dan Campbell.

I got to meet Dan Campbell. So I picked the Lions, a team that hasn't won since 1957, and you took the Bills, a team that's never won, I don't think, ever, since maybe 1960. And those are our two picks. So I'm going to say we're probably going to be wrong if Patrick Mahomes will win again.

That's the best thing about when sports start every year, man. Yeah, possibilities. The possibilities are amazing. Well, if Mahomes wins this year, now we can officially... I'm not ready to have the Jordan conversation, but I'm willing to assemble everybody in the room so we can start thinking about it. You mean, let's stop

that Brady conversation, okay? Let's don't go to Jordan yet. Well, I'm just... If he wins three in a row, we can have the Tom Brady conversation. Right. Not to Jordan yet. It's just Jordan the

three in a row. It made me think of that when Jordan did the three-peat. The three-peat, I get mad at people. Listen, I love Pat. I hate when people try to push him already past Brady because what Brady did, 10 Super Bowls, come on, man. Come on.

Stop it. Also, they're going to provoke Brady into coming back again. Oh, I tell you what, I cannot wait to see him. I think he's going to be fabulous on television. I think he's going to be good. The reports are he took it seriously. He's putting in the time and he's actually going to say

shit. The fact that he did the roast made me think. Dude, let me tell you something. This dude take everything serious. Yeah. Yeah. So he's going to be great at eight. I tell you what, Belichick is going to be great on TV, too. Well, he's on every TV.

He's doing like five different shows. I'm worried he might have done too much. Well, he don't have a job, so he got plenty of time. I know. Well, he knows he's going to be coaching got plenty of time. I know. Well, he knows he's going to be coaching in February. He's just grabbing those checks

for six months. That's right. Charles Broccoli, great to see you. I'm glad all is well. Hey, brother. Hey, you know I got a lot of love

for you, man. Anytime you leave, you let me know. All right, good to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Charles Broccoli.

Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti for producing as well. I'm going to see you on Thursday for a million dollar picks and a lot more. Don't forget, rewatchables. Night Shift is up.

You can watch it on the Winger Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the clips from this podcast and the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. I will see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus and presidents like I don't have to be. Must be 21 plus and president in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and president in D.C. Gambling problem?

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