The Bill Simmons Podcast - Cousin Sal's SB 52 Primer and J.K. Simmons on The Greatness of 'Oz' (Ep. 319)

Episode Date: January 29, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Cousin Sal to discuss surefire Super Bowl prop bets (10:00), LeBron's Lakers odds (20:00), Ronda Rousey at Royal Rumble (34:00), and another edition of "Parent Corner" (38:00). Then, Oscar-winning actor J.K. Simmons joins to discuss HBO's first great drama, 'Oz' (54:00), Kevin Costner's magical arm in 'For Love of the Game,' and the making of 'Whiplash' (1:24:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's BS episode on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Whether you do business in Beantown or the city of brotherly love, you need talent to win. No one understands that better than ZipRecruiter, our 2018 presenting sponsor. Let them help you find talent. Their powerful technology identifies and matches candidates with the right experience, then invites them to apply to your job. Five-time champ Bill Belichick might not need help finding talent,

but I can think of multiple NFL teams that might. ZipRecruiter scouts talent for you. My listeners can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash BSZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, fans like you love Bovada, especially during the biggest gambling week of the year from the opening coin flip prop to halftime show props like Nipplegate mentions.

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People love that one. People love Good Will Hunting. People are excited to hear us talk about Good Will Hunting. A couple things that happened in that pod that I thought were responses to that podcast that I thought was interesting one is that we had an argument about why they went to the bar in Cambridge over just staying at Southie and a few readers pointed out because Will Hunting was 20 and that's why they went and they knew the bouncer the big thing that people pointed out was at the end Chucky goes to pick up Will Hunting and Will Hunting's not there

and he finally has this moment like, oh, he finally must have gone. He finally got out of here. But they had given Will Hunting a car at that point. So maybe if the car wasn't there, why was he so surprised Will Hunting wasn't there? And also, why were they going to pick up Will Hunting if he already had a car?

It's a good nitpick. Wish I had thought about it. We love that movie. We have Varsity Blues coming up this week, Pick up Will Hunting if he already had a car. It's a good nitpick. Wish I had thought about it. We love that movie. We have Varsity Blues coming up this week, which we taped last week in front of a live audience at Largo. So subscribe to that Rewatchables podcast. Ring our NFL show this week.

Clark and Mays on Tuesday. GM Street on Wednesday. Clark and Mays on Thursday. GM Street on Friday with the big Super Bowl preview. And then on Sunday night, Tate, you and Lombardi, you're watching the game together, you do some social, and then eventually the post-game pod. The last one. Fresh out of the oven. Yes.

Right after the game. Yes. The final rapid reaction. That's only if Lombardi doesn't have a heart attack. We'll see if he survives. If he survives, meat-eat-a-day, which we're going to talk about with Cousin Sal in a little bit. But check that out.

Coming up, we have the Cous and I are going to talk about this weekend's gambling escapades, the Royal Rumble, and our big Super Bowl props podcast that we're actually not doing on this feed. We're going to explain that in a second. And then also, one of my favorite actors, J.K. Simmons, finally in studio. That's all coming up, a second i want to tell a story about something that happened on saturday night so my daughter has this scrimmage at San Marino High School, which is right next to Pasadena.

And one of the girls on the team had a birthday party after that was going to be held at the Pitfire Artisan Pizza, which is this place in Pasadena. I have lived in LA for 15 years. And I think I've been to Pasadena maybe 10 times in my life. So we have the scrimmage. Then we go to this pizza place at, I'm going to say like 8.30. And we walk in, and there's all these people watching the TV. And I realize it's the Celtics-Warriors game, which I had been taping and intentionally voiding my phone

so I could watch the game and not know who won. So, of course, there's 20 seconds left, and I have to watch the end of the game. And there's this whole bunch of people. It looks like they're having a party, and a couple of them recognize me. I'm like, hey, and I'm like, what happened? I'm talking to them about the game and then uh the celtics lose go to the bar with my

wife and a couple of the parents all of our kids are on the side and i could feel this group kind of looking at me weird and i you know i'm used to being out in public and seeing people kind of look at me but this felt a little different. I didn't really know what was going on. And I'm hanging out, I'm having a drink, and eventually this really pretty lady, probably in her late 20s, comes up to me with an older lady who seems like a mom,

and they're really sad. And they basically said they were there because they were having a wake for this guy who had died two years before or two days before, who was the wife of the younger lady and the son of the older lady. So I don't know how to react. And I'm basically saying, oh, you know, I'm so sorry. And I don't really know where this is going. And they basically said that he had been fighting leukemia for the past, I don't know, two years.

And in the hospital bed trying to find all these treatments, he had started listening to my podcast like 15 months ago. And he, I thought it was funny, he was listening to it at 2.0 speed, which I don't understand how people do. And they used to call me Bill 2.0 because he would speed up the podcast. But he was basically ripping through the podcast library and listening to all them and getting his his friends and family and you know listen to the pod as he was deteriorating and it had become kind of a running joke with with

his family and his friends that he had the podcast on and they were saying that it really helped him you know kind of deal with um obviously everything that was going on with him what what was bizarre was that when i showed up at this place they thought it had been arranged by the mom or somebody that was at the place and meanwhile i was just randomly there and the odds of me being there i tried to figure it out after i think the odds were i don't know tate what are the odds if i've been in pasadena 10 times in my life yeah and i go to there's probably 150 restaurants in pasadena i would have to go at the exact time that they were there yeah i mean

one in a million and they were like convinced that the the the guy had like arranged it so i don't know i i don't know whether i believe in that stuff but his first name was puvin his last name was deed wania i think i said the last name correctly anyway i wanted to uh i gave my condolences that night but wanted to give my condolences again and i hope i hope i said the names correctly i actually talked to um his wife by email and i probably should have asked but i think i got it right it's p-a-w-a-n and uh you know i don't know things work in mysterious ways sometimes i have no idea why why i ended up walking into that place that night, but they seemed to think it helped a little bit.

So that was cool. But I wanted to give my condolences to the whole family, and I wish you could have heard this one. Coming up, we have Cousin Sal and J.K. Simmons. We're going to call Sal right now. I'll call him, sir. On the line. Because here's

why. Here's why Sal's on the line this week. Because I'm going on his podcast to do our annual Super Bowl props extravaganza, which we have always done on this podcast. But now, in a cross-promotion that rivals when the ER doctors went on Friends in 1994, we are going to do that on your Against All Odds podcast this week.

It's going to run on Wednesday. America does not want to miss this. This is the craziest. This is when you turn into Russell Crowe in Beautiful Mind, crossed with Will Hunting and Good Will Hunting. I'm so excited for you. I'm excited for America. 48 hours away. How are you feeling? A lot of toilet time between now and then.

It used to be like 150 props, which is a lot. Now it's like 440 props. Bovada has, and Las Vegas Sportsbook has it. It's crazy. It's like they gave medallions to everyone, and there's 20,000 cabs in New York City all the time. Nuts. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how this game's going to go,

so I'm actually probably going to bet some props. Really? Yeah, without giving away too much. I'm the other way. I usually have a handle, or at least I know which way i'm going to go and i and i don't i'm right down the middle and and i think i'm struggling because of it the one that jumped out which is barely a prop because it's been there forever but the mvp odds brady is minus 110 i can't imagine he's not the mvp if the patriots win this game i'm sure there's a scenario where he's not.

But, like, let's say the Jaguars-Pats game was the Super Bowl. Right. Who would have won the MVP of that game? Would you have given it to Brady or Danny Amendola? I think Brady. I think that's one of those things where he brought them all the way back. And just as long as you can't give it to Belichick, Brady kind of has of has to get it now I know you guys won the Super Bowl where he didn't win but um those days are over I think right now that that but that proves my case Danny had one of the great

quarters in the history of the Patriots he did everything in the fourth quarter they're down 10 makes five or six the game ends if he doesn't make the catch, kind of catches, and Brady would have been the MVP anyway, which is why I think Brady at minus 110. What's the line for the money line for the Pats? It's probably like minus 200 right now, something like that? Yeah, it's minus 200. Could I just say, I know you don't read the Twitter comments,

but people are furious that you're calling him Danny, just out of the blue, just starting with Danny. What do you mean? That's his name. I don't know. They're just like all of a sudden you're best friends with him. It's like, all right, Danny, help this out. If Danny doesn't make that catch on third and 18, we're screwed.

People get annoyed. They get annoyed by that? Yeah, all the golfers like calling them by their first name, but it's extra smarts when you do it, I think. But I like it But I like it. I like it. Keep it up. First of all, all the Pats fans call him Danny.

We don't call him Amendola. And he's been on the team for long enough that we're on a first-name basis with him. I'm not going to apologize to America. Why is he Danny and Brady and Gilmore is not Stefan and all those? I don't understand why he's special. He feels like a Danny. He's frisky. He's doing frisky stuff.

Speaking of feedback from the listeners, I have a couple emails to read to you. Last week, Tony Romo called in. Right. And people had some thoughts. Isaac in Phoenix kind of sums up the general perception. Just got listening to the gush fest you and Sal had with Tony Romo, and I kept picturing you and Sal turning your hats around like Tony and elbowing each other out of the way to decide who gets the next question.

You went full Costanza. Well. Well, we were sharing a mic, so it was exactly as he portrayed it. Alex, people were horrified as far away as Zurich, Switzerland, where Alex writes in, I wanted to take this opportunity to express my appreciation of the sheer professionalism exhibited by Mr. Tate Frazier during the podcast where Tony Romo called in.

I've never personally been involved in producing a podcast. I don't think that professional experience is necessary to realize how difficult it would have been not just to produce, but to contend with the raging boner that Cousin Sal was popping during that entire segment, to have been able to keep that podcast running smoothly while somehow blocking out the agonized screams from Sal's MeUndies during their excruciating final moments. I don't like that. I don't like that at all.

It was pushed beyond the breaking point. Tate's professionalism is really something special, as is Bosh. You'd be very proud. I agree, Alex. He was very professional. Sal and I probably weren't. But this one was my favorite from Sully in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Tony Romo

made roughly $200 million in his career. I don't think he made that much. Why in this advanced digital age did it sound like he called in to talk to you guys on a styrofoam cup with a piece of red yarn hanging out of the bottom? Did he hang up so he could continue giving

mortar show coordinates uh i i don't know why did he have a better phone this hasn't he made like he was on there he was driving he drives like a lunatic he probably wasn't even paying attention to the road and uh there's there's some in the dallas area there's some dead spots what do you want me to say i don't know this is, you know, people won't be able to hear him in the huddle. And this is part of the problem. I understand. Do you think he has a flip phone from 2006? Jerry didn't let him.

Well, listen, you know, I know it's a big joke. Brady destroyed his phone. Oh! The cell phone. Oh! I don't know if the cell phone joke is coming in there. Tom. Sorry, Tom destroyed his phone.

I was driving into work today, and I always try to listen to the first segment of Colin Coward's show if I'm driving in like right around nine. Started out with the rarely seen Brady was asking for it defense because the radio host in Boston, the idiot guy who called Brady's daughter a little pissant or whatever he said. Right. Annoying pissant.

Brady got so mad, he went on his weekly radio show today on WEI and basically said, I don't, I got to reevaluate whether I want to appear on this station anymore. And said he didn't have much to say and he hung up. Right. Yeah. Hold on. This answers everyone, every email. It was questioned today like what

hey why aren't you going after romo why aren't you it's like yeah then you never get an interview again but this is what happens we should make fun of his sons and his wife and everything kids are off limits and i say that as uh we're about 10 minutes away from making fun of our kids on parent corner but uh the whole Brady getting mad thing, Coward was basically like, look, you let people behind the velvet rope. You were very private for months and months and years and years.

And now you have this Facebook show and you're showing people what your kids look like and this is what happens. It's like, wow, okay. Interesting defense. There's something to that. there's something to it i guess he's not he's not a kardashian but five years ago you would have been very surprised that he had his own facebook show or something like this right yeah i probably wouldn't have timed it for the week before the super bowl yeah right i don't i i would like to think that if you're going to show your kids,

you're basically banking on America maybe treating that with somewhat respect. I don't know. Right. But, yeah, I wish this had come out in March. It's an infomercial. It is what it is. It's Tom versus time. We're not going to really learn anything,

and he's just going to make it seem like, look, here's my family. I'm great. Like Jimmy would never do Jimmy versus time or something like that, and just behind-the-scenes documentary and show his family. No, I don't think so.

He brought his son out to demonstrate the health care thing, and he got endless shit for that by some some right wingers. But, you know, it was that was at least necessary, you know, and then and just even even in the necessary times, you're going to get criticism. Well, that led to the most exciting moment in the history of the show, which was when he then handed his child to Guillermo. Oh, yeah. On live TV. I've never been more frightened ever on ABC, including every episode of Lost.

I was never as frightened as I was then. The other thing Coward talked about was he got in... Guillermo, by the way, sorry, Guillermo takes like two or three tequila shots in the green room before every show and was walking backwards, walking backwards to the doors, which him, he stopped.

Yeah, it was a good move. The other thing Coward was talking about was he had inside information that this LeBron Lakers thing is serious, which I went on his show last summer and told him that the LeBron Lakers thing was serious. But I do wonder if we have to start thinking about Lakers next year. I wonder if Bovada has that. The 2019 title odds, because I really do think he's going there. I wouldn't bet my life

on it, but I think it's conceivable. Are you as confident as you were last July in this? I don't know if the LeVar ball, I think they were hoping Lonzo would be better. Yeah, but they could always trade

him. I'm actually more confident because I think this Cavaliers thing, the entire season has been such a shit show before, since this Lakers story basically started in June. I think that was when Jalen started talking about it and the ringers started writing it and it kind of snowballed. Since then, Kyrie got traded. Their season has really gone to crap. And then on top of it, the owner announced he's going to sell.

And we found out LeBron now owns two houses of a combined $44 million in Los Angeles. Wow. I mean, that's a lot of signs, right? I think he's leaving Cleveland for sure. I just don't know that L.A. is the destination. Tate, all those signs, what do you think? I got the odds right now pulled up. Lakers is plus 400.

Rockets plus 250. Cavs plus 200. Lakers are plus 400 for next year. For next year. No, no, that's for just where he signs, right? Yeah, for where he's 2018, 2019. For where he signs? It's plus 400? Plus 400. Oh, no, Sal. You love signs, right? Yeah, for where he's 2018, 2019, what team will LeBron. For where he signs? It's plus 400?

Plus 400. Oh, no, Sal. You love that, huh? I think we might have to step in. I think we still haven't made back the money from nine years ago when we said he's going to the Bulls. I forgot about that. I know we bet on that. Oh, one of our greatest losses that we've had.

Speaking of losing, I always love when you talk yourself into Pro Bowl bets. This year they moved the Pro Bowl. I'm pretty sure. Was it always before the Super Bowl? It wasn't always, right? It was usually. They flip-flopped it. Yeah, they flip-flopped it.

So yesterday, two South Classics that you just have no idea what you're doing, and the Pro Bowl going head-to-head against the NHL All-Star Game. And I know you wagered on both, and I'm sure you had the golf tournament too. What did you do yesterday? I still have Norrin. He's in a playoff right now, as we speak, with Jason Day. So I don't know. I'm checking in with that.

But I did have the under, but I was on a parlay, which lost. They only played one period in these NHL Atlantic versus Metro and all this stuff. I won that, but that was on a parlay. But my big bet of the day, and I swore to God that I was going to stay away from

the Pro Bowl. I love the NFC. I don't know why. I was like, I have to defend my conference. They're up 20-3. They're laying a point and a half. They're up 20-3. And I got the, in the second half, I got Jared Goff. I got the 2016 Week 2 version of Jared Goff for the second half. But either way, alright, so it's still 23-17 with three minutes left, fourth and five, and Sean Payton goes for it.

They're up six, and he goes for it, and it wasn't even close to converting. And then Derek Carr, who couldn't move the ball at all, of course takes his team right down the field and scores. They win 24-23. Now, you don't need to know anything else. Should there be a pro ball or not? No, this is the reason there should not be. Guys's a one point game and guys are signing autographs on the side the winner gets 64 000 the losing team players get 32 000 like these guys have too much

money that doesn't matter they could just get hurt the gamblers are the only ones suffering here do away with the pro bowl please for the love of. I think this is the 11th year we've done the podcast together, and I can't ever remember you winning on the Pro Bowl. Does anyone have the AFC? How could you win on this? It's crazy. I don't know how anyone wins. I guess you stay away.

I would think the money matters more in the Pro Bowl than it would. I saw in the All-Star game for the NBA, the winner gets $100,000 and the loser gets $25,000. And I'm thinking like $100,000 for the NBA guys, that's like, you know, they won't burp for less than $500,000. Right. But for football where you're a running back or a middle linebacker or something, your career might be over with one hit. I would imagine the $64,000 is kind of appealing.

You're still risking your career, so try to win the game, right? Not like the guys are getting interfered with. Jalen Ramsey's all over. I don't remember. Was it Thielen maybe? And they're laughing at each other. No one's getting called. Like I said, people signing autographs.

It's dismal to watch. It really is. There is a great sound FX of Jalen Ramsey from the Pats game last week that ran out of Jacksonville Station. And it's basically three quarters of him talking shit to

Chris Hogan and Gronk and everybody and then mysteriously ends right before the comeback. I see you, random Jacksonville Channel 30, running the Jalen Ramsey,

not running the part when the GOAT made the comeback. Hey, why don't you think there's Super Bowl buzz? Or does this happen every year and we just don't remember? I think something does need to happen today, a media day, like James Harrison sixes pit bull on a camera crew or Belichick moons the foreign press. I don't know. Something needs to happen.

But, yeah, it doesn't seem like there's as much. Is it because the Patriots are there every year? Is that the thing against the backup? Yeah. So, first of all, if Jacksonville was in here instead of the Patriots, I guess like Jalen Ramsey, Blake Bortles, there would be all these new people. On the other hand, Jacksonville would be in the Super Bowl. So let me ask America who they'd rather have in there just from an entertainment standpoint.

I would imagine the Patriots, even if you're trying to root against them. But yeah, I think there's no Patriot stories left other than James Harrison. I'm trying to think who else. Gronk. What about Danny? No one's talking about Danny. Yeah, Danny. Go put the crowd around Danny.

And then Philly's got a shitload of stories. Philly can carry media day. I don't know. Philly's got two expatriates. That should be a big enough thing with Blunt and Chris Long. That should be a nice way to look at it. Let me tell you something. Nobody loved being a patriot more more than like Garrett Blount.

He did, right? He loved it the most. He appreciated Belichick and Brady the most. We are, I think it's the 13th anniversary of my favorite thing that ever happened at media day, which is for Jimmy Kimmel live.

Oh no. 14th anniversary was 2004, 14 years ago today. Or tomorrow, maybe. You went into the stands and pretended you were John Casey. Yeah, I was on the field. You were the Panthers kicker. You wore a Casey jersey.

And you weren't swallowed up by reporters. But there were a few reporters. Most of them, of course, were foreign. Right, yeah. The French press was all over me, and I was talking about how I'd been to strip clubs. It doesn't matter. I'm only on the field two minutes out of the whole game, so I could live it up. And John Casey, who for some reason came out later than everybody else, so it didn't seem plausible that I was the real John Casey for a little bit.

But he is a God-fearing Christian. He was not happy when I finally went face-to-face with him declaring that I was the real John Casey. He was not happy with me one bit. He did not have a sense of humor about it. There might have been some berating, some kind of low-key berating. And then it all swung around in the Super Bowl when the Panthers scored and John Casey's kicking off.

Sorry, Tate. And kicks off out of bounds and gives us the ball at the 40 for the field goal winning drive. And it was the cuz. I always feel like, do you know that story, Tate? Of course, yeah. It's heartbreaking. The worst kickoff? drive and it was it was the cuz i always feel like do you know that story tate of course yeah it's it's heartbreaking the worst kickoff swung did i swing the game a little bit i'm sorry if i had known you then what i know now i never would have done that well dude who'd you bet on that

game the panthers or the patriots you bet on the panthers right patriots giving points but uh so you didn't cover no no no yeah yeah i think that was the worst kickoff of all time like all things considered the moment the whole thing like just to give us the ball at the 40 when we had already gotten a game-winning field goal we were already celebrating the fact that we had come back and everything so yeah it was like there's no way that this could happen and then you get the ball to 40 that was a really good game in the second half It was one of the worst first halves ever There was little fireworks at the end Of the first half

And then Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake happened And everyone went crazy about that For the next couple hours Although we didn't have Twitter back then And things like that But it just became It kind of swallowed up the second half And meanwhile the second half was like in the stadium.

We didn't know that Janet Jackson thing had happened. It was like super exciting. And Mussein Mohamed had the ADR touchdown. And Brady threw the pick. That seemed like it was going to screw the – that was still probably the worst pass of his career. But that was a really fun game. Well, now that you think back at it,

the Patriots Super Bowls, almost all the first halves weren't good, right? Yeah. Like, you know, everything was the big giant comebacks in the two that they won, and the Eagles only made that exciting in the second half the first time, and like you said, the Panthers, and obviously last year, the big comeback. There's been a lot of good last five minutes of the second quarter And like you said, the Panthers and obviously last year, the big comeback.

There's been a lot of good last five minutes of the second quarter is usually kind of fun with Patriots games for some reason. Even the Seattle game. The craziest stat I've seen is that Brady's Patriots in the Super Bowl not scored a touchdown the first quarter. Seriously? In five Super Bowls? Yeah. Tate, right? Didn't we confirm that?

Yeah, we confirmed that. It's crazy. Wow. Do you want to give a little preview of our against all odds? Any props you like? First of all, I just want to say that you did something atrocious, and you went against our code. Like Fight Club, our thing is we never hedge. Yeah.

With Gamble Club, whatever it is. Yeah. We have the Patriots to win the never hedge. Yeah. With Gamble Club, whatever it is. Yeah. We have the Patriots to win the Super Bowl. Yeah. We did it before, like two weeks ago. Yeah. At minus 115. Yeah.

And you, a puss bag move, you took the four and a half points. I'd hedge. What's wrong with it? We don't hedge. Where does this come from? That's why we always lose. I hedged. I told you when I made the Super Bowl bet on the

Pats two weeks ago that I was going to hedge if the line was more than like four points for the Super Bowl. Yeah, we always say that though. I actually did it. Hey, sorry. I wanted to change my luck. I think the line should be three. I really do. With the defense

that the Pats have, I watched that whole Jags game again last week after we did our podcast. I have no idea how the Jags didn't win that game. If the Jags were like, if they were a more famous franchise, like if they were like the Dallas Cowboys, if you just

took the Dallas Cowboys and made them the Jags in that game, all people would have talked about for the next week and for the next month and next year is how Dallas got soft in the second half of that game and let a certain win slip away. It's almost impossible

that they didn't win that game. Right. Don't you think we're doing a lesser version of that defense and maybe even a lesser version of dare I say, of a quarterback? But I don't know. I think the line's too low. I do.

I think Philly's defense, I've been saying this all month, I think they have the best defense. I think their defense is better than Jacksonville. I think they trust their quarterback more. And I think they're more aggressive. Like they could have rolled over in round three there when they had the lead, and they didn't. They kept attacking.

Jacksonville, I don't know. I've been thinking about what Lombardi said about how they only had 30 plays. And then once they ran through the 30, they didn't know what to do. I think that might have been what happened. I think they ran out of plays. Even the play they ran on the fourth down to Westbrook that Gilmore tipped away. Gilmore knew it, yeah. Yeah, he said they had run that two other times.

So I don't know. I think the Pats got really lucky, and I'd just be surprised if they blew the Eagles out. I'm not saying this as a reverse jinx. Their defense just isn't good. We'll talk about this more Wednesday. But don't you think the one thing that would concern me is if they can keep Brady, you know, with happy feet, if they can give him happy feet.

They only have one sack against the Vikings. They do a lot of good stuff. They make nice big plays when they need to. But overall, I don't know that he's going to be running for his life the whole time. And that's kind of what you have to do to him, especially in a dome. I don't know. I think he might just leave the whole way. I remember Brady said something last year during the Super Bowl

about how he'd really figured out, I think we've even talked about this, how he had figured out what that whole day is like and not to peak too early. And you have, like like the three hours before the game and then you have like the the forever national anthems and all the histrionics before and then the game starts and it's this fast 90 minutes and then there's another 35 minute break and and he was talking about like he he has the experience now that he knows how to like peak at the right time of the game right and meanwhile like the eagles they've only had a couple guys who have

even played in the super bowl and there's nick foals and i i do think experience is an advantage especially in the second half and that that's the thing the coaching and brady and the experience are the things that make me feel good but like yeah I don't know what they're getting out of Gronk this week. Do you? Right. No, he's not cleared for media day, is he? No. Well, he probably should never be cleared for media day. Yeah.

So we're doing that against all odds this week. Subscribe to that podcast. We're going to take a quick break and then come back to Parent Corner. There are only so many opportunities in life to wear a tux, so why not look great and make it easy too with high quality rental suits and tuxedos delivered to your doorstep theblacktux.com makes weddings or special events easier than it's ever been i wish i'd been around i wish this has been around when i went to 20 weddings in my 20s

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Back to Sal. All right, Parent Corner. America's favorite segment. We've had some sponsor interest, but you know what? I'm not giving Parent Corner away. It's going to have to be somebody who's great. Really is. It's going to have to be somebody that really appreciates

and understands how important Parent Corner is. I like that. Yeah. By the way, we haven't really had any good. Yeah, come on. Where is everybody? Wake up. They're a lot of like, hey, I'll give you $100 off

on our bowling alley. So, why don't you start? Well, we're going to talk about the Royal Rumble, right? Oh, yeah. Do you want to start? I don't know. Oh, yeah, we forgot about Royal.

Last night, Rousey, there had been rumors. I am a Dave Meltzer newsletter reader, and he seemed to think Rousey was coming back, but wouldn't come out and say it. And then last night I was watching and I just assumed she was coming out as one of the 30. I got my kids excited. Me and nephew Kyle and my two kids and my wife who was on her phone the whole time. We did Royal Rumble Pulls for the the for the man and then the women and uh and my son my daughter won for the man and then i won for for the woman but

waiting for rousey getting everybody fired up and then it goes 29 and then 30 yeah and trish stratus comes out which was weird because my buddy gus had pointed out on twitter that ramona shelburne was sitting in the front row who has written every single ronda rousey story that's ever been written and and seems like she's pretty good friends with her too so the fact that she was there once gus pointed that out i was like oh rousey's definitely coming out never came out and then comes out at the end with one of the it was great she got this huge pop it was great and comes out at the end with one of the, it was great. She got this huge pop. It was great.

And comes out, it was like she was like a mute. She was just pointing at the WrestleMania banner. It's like, give her a mic. Do anything. This is such a good payoff. Like, how do you squander this? I thought it was weirdly dissatisfying.

What'd you think? And then afterwards, the interview afterwards, I don't know if you think? And then afterwards, the interview afterwards, I don't know if you saw it on ESPN, she was like, herself, she said, I'm at a loss for words, and I'm never at a loss for words. I'm so overwhelmed. She was more coherent after her knockout,

after the Holly Holm fight than she was yesterday. It was very strange. But I loved seeing her in Roddy Piper's shirt and his leather jacket. Roddy's son Colt gave it to her, and I've worn that jacket. It's great. That part of it was terrific. But, yeah, it did seem like a weird opportunity.

Are we sure she's going to be good at wrestling? You know, I'm worried she's going to go out there, she's going to try her hardest, and she's going to get her ass kicked. I mean, can she handle another demoralizing defeat? What do you mean, are you sure she's going to be good? Are we sure she is the person? As good as they want her to be. Yeah, but are we sure she has the personality for it, is my question. Oh, I see.

Alright. Yeah, I don't know. She's got a lot of fans. It doesn't seem to matter much. A lot of fans, but it was for real fighting. Right. Oh, you're saying this isn't real. Yeah. It's interesting. I think they're going to have to position her as like a Brock Lesnar type. Right. Unless... Oh, you're saying this isn't real. Yeah. It's interesting. Interesting, Kate.

I think they're going to have to position her as like a Brock Lesnar type. Yes. Where she's just this indestructible force. I don't know if she's that charismatic. Does she need a manager? I was half thinking that Tonya Harding would be the surprise... Oh, wow. ...entrant there.

That would have been smart, right? Vince is all caught up in this XFL stuff. I don't think he was thinking ahead. Well, he got caught up in the XFL stuff, and that was one of the reasons they had one of the best rumbles they've ever had, and that we actually had surprising winners. I think because Vince wasn't there being like, nah, give it to Roman Reigns.

But I think to save the Rousey thing, I think they give her Paul Heyman. You think? Yeah, that has to be how this plays out, I think. Because I donousey thing, I think they give her Paul Heyman. You think? Yeah, that has to be how this plays out, I think. Because I don't know if she's carrying. She plays heel. She's a heel, I understand. If they're smart, they make her a heel and they give her Paul Heyman.

But I don't know if they're going to do that. If they make her a baby face and have her do interviews, I don't think she's going to be good. Yeah, you might be right. She'll probably switch 17 times between now and next year. And her finishing move is going to be an arm bar, which is not exactly the most exciting finishing move of all time. Right. We were at a WrestleMania where she put Stephanie McMahon in the arm bar, right?

Am I imagining that? But this happened like two years ago, didn't it? Yeah, in San Francisco. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, this was nice and all, but we kind of saw it already. I guess they just signed it I thought the men's Royal Rumble the they needed more who the oh my god that person moments they were there were just too many like people on the roster and then the woman was like

the hurricane came out right I don't even really barely remember that guy and he lasted like 40 seconds yeah you need to throw in like the one like there's scott hall oh my god he can't walk like you need like three of those and then the woman had like a million of them like i when lita when lita came out i almost had a heart attack will you uh will you isolate that line for uh yes every week it's great they basically brought out every great female wrestler they've had. I thought it was awesome. I think they had to. I don't think they have enough, right?

I think they probably have barely 30, and they wanted to fill like eight surprise gaps. I thought Ramona Shelburne was going to have to come out. I didn't think they were going to get to 30 either. I saw her in the stands. I was like, they must need bodies. But yeah, they had more than enough. I thought that Tr the stands. I was like, they must need bodies. Yeah, they had more than enough. I thought that Trish Stratus

was phenomenal. She looked great. She was doing moves. It was awesome. Anyway, Parent Corner, what do you have? Along the same lines, here we go with Royal Rumble. I did the same thing. We had a pool. It was me, my oldest son, Archie, and my middle

son, Jack, who's uh turns 10 next week and we do this thing like 1 through 30 we split the 30 like Jack gets 1 4 7 10 13 I get 2 5 8 11 Archie gets 3 6 9 all the way up to 30 you get so um so I've won the last two years in a row doing this and I let them pick the the number, the first number, like who wants one, who wants two. So I get two. And as it turns out, I have four of the last five wrestlers remaining. And he had my son Jack, who is a very poor sport at this. He threw a fit last year.

We have it on video, and I'm happy to submit it to Twitter or whatever. He threw a fit when he lost last year. He had Roman Reigns. I had Randy Orton. Randy Orton eliminates Roman Reigns, and I go crazy. I go dancing around the house like it's the greatest thing I've ever done. And we played for a dollar last year. So this year, because I want to play for like $500. These kids have a

lot of gift cards to target and stuff. I want to take them all from them, but they only want to play for a dollar, so whatever. So this year we don't play for anything. Jack's not doing it unless we play for, there are no stakes. I was like, fine. So now I'm just going to, if I win, I'm going to amp up the celebration

like no one's ever seen. So again, I have four wrestlers left. He has Roman Reigns left. All of a sudden, it's one-on-one, Roman Reigns and I can't even remember who won. Shinsuke. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, Shinsuke Nakamura, yeah. Shinsuke defeats, throws Reigns over the top rope. I win, and I'm going crazy. I'm running circles around the house. I'm

like, I did it again. I can't be beat at this. I will not be beat at this. And Jack comes at me. He's been taking Taekwondo for about six months now and lunges and throws some kind of, like, weird forearm thing to my stomach. And he hits me. And for him, it's hard. But, you know, he's a little pissant, so it doesn't really affect me. But I go over. I fall over in pain.

I'm like, oh, and I start rolling. And my wife is beside herself. She thinks this little nine-year-old knocked me out. And she is so mad. And it took like the next two and a half hours to try to convince her that, A, it didn't hurt me. And, B, it was fine. It was all in the spirit of it. But she wants him to like, she thinks he needs help.

He's using Taekwondo offensively, and that's not the point of this. He's supposed to use it in self-defense. So that's basically the story. I'm just trying to get him over. I want him to win once, and then that was it. I fell in a heap. I hate to pig-pile on this, but my son also attacked me during the Rumble last night. You got attacked.

I think there's something about wrestling that, hey, it turns out it makes kids more aggressive. Yeah, you make them watch it for four hours, you're going to pay the consequences, I think. I got John Cena. We did it. We basically did you get one, you get six, you get 11, you get 16, all the way through.

So I had 5, 10, 15, 20. Cena came out, and my son was pissed that I got Cena and I started taunting him and he came over and hit me with like a really hard right on my left shoulder.

Like enough that I chased him around the house because I was actually going to punch him back. It was like legitimate child abuse in most areas. I'm chasing him

all the way around like I'm Bruce Smith and he's Joe Montana. And I was so mad at him. I really wanted to beat him up. Paracorder. What is Paracorder? In 15 years, it's going to be like, yeah, they did kick our ass. They did. We're going to be drooling over ourselves telling these stories. I have one month

every month I have one giant bruise on my body from my son. Right now I have a huge bruise on my leg from when he kicked me like three weeks ago when we were playing around. Somehow it's like the dad who just takes all the punishment. Don't let him take Taekwondo. We just get the crap kicked out of us.

I know. So yesterday, first lazy Sunday, non-football Sunday since August. And I don't know, there's an emotional void, right? What did we do? Yeah. I watched the Miami Vice movie to prepare for the Rewatchables podcast Chris Ryan and I are gonna do and then around 2 30 i decided to to figure out what the hell was underneath the tv because we have this giant

like cabinet thing and the tv and there's just a million dvds there's like 11 years worth of stuff and i'm like i gotta go through there it's like every screener i got from the producers guild everything i'm like throwing everything out trying to figure out what to keep going through first of all at this point does it even make sense to have dvds anymore no not really so i kept like my tv to do a link yeah i kept my 20 favorites i'm it's it's like corolla was the first one, I think, who was on this way back when. The physical exertion of getting up and putting a DVD in the DVD player and pressing play is almost too taxing for all of us at this point. We could just find the remote control. So I saved my DVDs, the ones I cared about. And I'm going through and there's just a million weird DVDs.

I don't really know what they are. And some of them I know are from, like, I thought photo albums of my kids or something. So I'm putting in and there's videos. And my wife has this, I say this in the most affectionate way possible, a crazy friend named Shannon who videotapes everything. And it turns out we had some DVDs of just my kids when they were little that I didn't know existed that were just in this pile. Included in this DVDs were footage of our children playing together naked in a bed while they had diapers on. There was some massive sleepover where they were at some beach house. It was all the people from, I don't know if the listeners know this,

but your son and my daughter are three weeks apart. My daughter's older and have known each other since they were babies. And my wife made friends with all these people from the pre-preschool. And they had something and Archie and your wife came and it was like this massive beach hang. And this was like the three o'clock nap. And she's videotaping all of these kids in bed together. And there are kids probably age two in bed in our, in our diapers, jumping up and down

on the bed and being crazy. It was emotional. Yeah corner man this is what happens without football right this is what happens on football you're sifting through dvds and i have all this footage of and then so i brought my daughter down who of course now is 12 and a half and she's on Instagram all the time and has an attitude about just about everything. And, and I'm watching this little adorable kid on the TV with, you know, just, just full of hope in life and trying to get my daughter to get excited about it.

She was enjoying some of it. Then she got annoyed and she stormed out and it was just like, that's what happens. So it happens to parents. Yeah. They get mad that you you videotaped them in diapers. Dad! I don't have a shirt on! But yeah, so yeah, I have videos of our kids.

Now, I would... Well, we're going to have to see that. I'm going to have to see that. I'm going to send it to you. I'm not going to put it on the internet, because as we learned from Tom Brady this week, it's too dangerous. Don't put it on the DVD either. But here's my parent corner lesson.

I was always one of those parents that thought, eh, I'll just take pictures. I'm not going to be the annoying person who took video all the time. I always hated the parents that were just constantly taping their kids. But then as your kids get older, you realize you wish you had more videos of your kids. So I would encourage people who have young kids, well, now it's probably easier because people have the iPhone cameras and stuff like that. I would encourage people to take more videos.

And you'll be surprised that when you get older that it definitely resonates more than you expect. Our friend Tony is a big proponent of this. And I think he has footage, even if it's like two minutes of asking your kid what's going on from age two to his kids are late teens now. And he put it together. And he's like, it really is spectacular. Just listening to them talk from age two, three, four, five on, and just a minute.

All you need is a minute, and you'll be very satisfied. Yeah. There you go, Tate. Tate's ready to have kids. Tate was just telling me. He's like, I'd love to have a kid. You know, I would hate to lose this parent corner segment with you, but I also wonder how great it would be if you did it with Francesa.

Will you try it? Will you try to bait him this Friday or whenever you have him on? My big thing for Francesa for Friday, which I think is going to be the last time he's on, is I'm going to ask him to watch The Shape of Water before we do Friday's podcast. I've never cared about his take on anything more than I care about his take on The Shape of Water. Oh, really?

Did you see The Shape of Water? I did see it. I think Call Me By Your Name would be a better... Either. I want to get his two cents on that. Hey, Doug. Doug, I don't understand. These kids are just riding their bikes in Italy

and that's the whole movie. Hey, let's go ride our bikes again. Mike, we're supposed to get excited about a tangerine? Come on! Keep it out of the bedroom! Hey, let's go ride our bikes again. Want to go for a leisurely ride?

Hey, let's get off here. Oh, and then the father. The father was so happy. No father would be happy with that. It's a humongous, humongous boy movie. All right, Sal. Wednesday, against all odds, subscribe to Sal's podcast. And you will hear the Massive Super Bowl Props podcast.

It will not be on this podcast. It will only be on Cousin Sal's podcast. And the trifecta will be following up later in the week on that feed as well. And then we're also taping a whole bunch of videos with you and Lombardi. Can I announce it? I'm going to announce it. Yeah, sure. Do it. Well, we have media day, which is tonight. You and Lombardi are going to have meat eater day. Yeah. Italian meat eater day. Day. You're going to do a whole bunch of different football prediction thingies while eating

Italian meats. We got Cabagol, we got Mortadella, we got Super Sod, we have Salami, we have Philly Cheesesteak. It's very exciting. I may not live to see the Super Bowl. I may have a quarter. Like Wednesday or something. Media Day.

So you can check that out on the Ringer's YouTube channel or on Twitter all week. I'm very excited for these videos. I'm excited to see how much you eat. It's really you guys and your element. I don't know how Joe House isn't involved in this, but shame on him. Sal, I will see you on your podcast on Wednesday. Good job on you, buddy. Good job on you, buddy. Good job on you.

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Visit gillettondemand.com. That's where you get Gillette, online. Once again, gillettondemand.com. Coming up, J.K. Simmons, we taped this on Friday. One of the things I liked about about him he showed up no entourage i love when the celebs show up with nobody they just they're just by themselves he's one of those guys really fun podcast if you love oz if you love for love of the game if you love whiplash if you've enjoyed his work over the years i promise you you will like this one here it is all right

jk simmons in the house one of the top 10 simmons's i think we're both in the top i think top five we can go i was being generous how many great simmons's are there ted simmons gene gene simmons russell simmons's stock has dropped i think he might have fallen out of the top 10 i'm trying to think what other al simmons great baseball player right you got your henry simmons another actor you got your johnny simmons another well you know you're not old enough but gene simmons the female gene simmons oh the actress before i remember that one yeah before ben simmons on the 76ers gene simmons ben simmons there was a clyde simmons on the packers yeah i mean pretty awesome there's not that many simmons's and most of them are black so when i was buying the when i was always hoping there was going to be a wide receiver on the patriots named simmons and then it happened 20 years ago we drafted

tony simmons in the second round i had no money and i spent like 260 dollars on his authentic jersey because i was like this is it there's a simmons on the patriots he lasted like two years for a while yeah so now when i wear it people are, that's so weird. You got a Simmons jersey with your name on it? I was like, no, actually, we had this guy. He never made it. So I don't even know where to start with you, but I'm going to start here. My first real experience with you as an actor is you were one of the most evil people who have ever been on TV.

It's not TV. It's HBO. You were a serial neo-Nazi rapist on the first great drama they ever had killer come on full credit and murderer i forgot and murderer and uh riot provoker and just one of the worst people who's ever been on tv just all around general guy yeah and after seeing that for four years you you just start thinking that person's actually like that yeah well like he has to be like that he can't be that evil and that was my wife's fear was that i was just going to get my butt kicked on the one train you know on the coming home from work uh fortunately

the people who sort of confused fantasy with reality in that regard were mostly the people who thought vern was a pretty righteous dude like you're you're their guy there were people right on man i dig what you're saying and i were people who came up right on man I dig what you're saying and I'd be like oh yeah okay good to meet you I like what you stand for

yeah Oz was incredible and it got lost in the shuffle because I think you know and this happens in sports too

with athletes and stuff where people forget people think Michael Jordan was the first great ducker and was actually Dr. J and even before him it was Elgin Bay jordan was the first great ducker and was actually dr j and even before him it was alger baylor oz was the first great hbo drama and it did stuff

that not that we just hadn't seen before it was incredible yeah i mean it was truly groundbreaking and i i have no trouble tooting the oz horn because tom fontana is not a creative genius but one of the great people on the planet and uh that was such a huge thing for tons of us in the cast and crew and it was really the first drama on pay cable and we're like we're talking 20 and a half years ago now because 1997 was uh you know yeah if there were other dramas i don't remember them i certainly can't remember a drama that had that many cast members that mean like hill street blues st else, people like that on basic network shows but not on a cable.

Well St. Elsewhere that was Fontana's first TV thing so that's a good connection there. Yeah I mean that cast was and there were people that would come and go like these amazing actors and people would say oh what was it like working with you know Uah hagen or you

know when i go like i don't know i mean there's so many plots going on that i didn't get to meet a lot of these people it was the arc of that show is pretty cool because the first season's i don't want to say it's laid back because it was in prison and it was over the top but by the second i would say the second and third seasons, I haven't watched it in a while, but man, it just really started going places. And it was one of those shows like, I used to, my buddy Joe House used to watch it and we would like call each other after the episodes

and be like, oh my God, Adebisi. Holy, oh my God. Putting the headphones on before he rapes the unconscious uh guy oh you gotta have your tunes oh my god it was so over the top and i've never had an experience like that up until that point with a show where i'm like i anything is possible in this show yeah yeah absolutely and that was the beauty of of that time and that place and and at the time, which coincidentally, Chris Albrecht was running HBO at the time. He's now running Star. Yeah, for your new show.

Yeah. But he just gave Tom, like, here's your budget. It ain't much. Do whatever you want. I mean, literally no holds barred. And that was, you know, if you're going to make a prison drama, that's what you want to hear. You know, you don't want to be on a you know a traditional broadcast network going oh you freaking negro i don't like you you know i'm a skinhead who doesn't say the n-word yeah

um yeah yeah i mean it was it was uh just the most raw storytelling it could be it was i always felt like that show and then sex in the city which was pretty much around the same time was kind of h sanders was the first great show they had right but sex in the city and oz which are obviously completely different shows in every respect but they both kind of were the first ones that tested the limits of oh we're on cable people are paying for this if they don't like it they can go go away. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll push the envelope this way. What was your backstory before you got that job?

Because I'm assuming that was your first huge break, right? Yeah, yeah. My backstory was I was loving life, doing theater all over the country in different regional theaters for $112 a week, playing Shakespeare for a couple of months in Pittsburgh and then going to Albany and doing a new play and then going to Buffalo and doing a musical and finally did some Broadway shows in the first half of the 90s and then really made a conscious decision with my agent.

I was doing my fifth Broadway show. It was a Neil Simon play called Laughter on the 23rd Floor with a great cast, and we had a great time. And most of that cast, John Slattery, Mark Lynn Baker, Nathan Lane, I mean, great people, Randy Graff, a lot of them had television and film careers kind of bubbling too, and they would walk out to their mailbox and get a surprise check every once in a while

for residuals from whatever. And I thought, that's a really cool idea. Yeah. I think instead of doing... You get paid for stuff I did. Yeah. Instead of doing eight shows a week that's the same, and I'm going to try doing something different all the time

and maybe make some money. And coincidentally, that happened about the time my wife and I had gotten together. Just about the time that I started having some grown-up responsibilities as a 40-year-old, wife, kids, mortgage, was about the time that some on-camera work started coming. I did a couple of guest spots, and then Fontana plucked me for the land of oz i hesitate to ask this but did fontana say there's this part of a of a neo-nazi murder serial rapist that i think you'd be perfect for or did he just audition you no you stumbled into it uh the uh i did audition for it, but the first big guest starring part on TV I ever had

was, I don't know, months or a year before that on Fontana's show Homicide. Oh, yeah, yeah. Good one. And I played a neo-Nazi murdering bastard, you know, different from Vern, but similar, obviously. And so that was why I was the first guy in Tom's mind. And then he brought me in to audition in a way, but he didn't even have scripts written at that point.

He had some of the monologues that Harold Perrineau's character, Augustus Hill. Yeah, the wheelchair guy. The wheelchair guy, yeah, who was kind of the Greek chorus for the show. So he had a bunch of actors just reading some of those, and then we just kind of talked about the character that he was creating. And I had learned the power of the medium by that time because after doing theater for 20 years and nobody caring, when I'm walking down the street, I'd done two guest spots,

and I'm walking down the streets in New York, and I'm getting stopped all the time. Because of homicide. By people that saw me on Homicide, or I did a guest spot on a series called New York Undercover. Yeah. And I thought, if this is the response from one guest spot, he's talking to me about playing this evil dude, head of the Aryan

Brotherhood. I almost talked my way out of it because I was afraid this is the beginning of what I hope is going to be an acting career on camera and I just cannot be typecast as this character for the rest of my life. I don't know how you weren't. It's amazing that you've shed it.

It was just a total stroke of luck that within months after uh or weeks after we finished shooting the first season of oz my agent gets a call from law and order and they want me to play the shrink on law and order so nice one one night you know law and order the most watched tv show yeah right yeah and and there were only two shows in new york at the time and those were the two shows so So I'm playing the psychiatrist on Law & Order and the psychotic on Oz, and people are seeing the yin-yang thing going on. I mean, it was beautiful.

So did you get on the streets, you're getting noticed immediately for us? Oh, yeah. I don't know how many people had HBO back then. I know I had it, but I never had a feel. Especially in New York. I mean, all of us. And there were a few familiar faces you know that that people knew but it was a lot of uh a lot of characters and actors that were not familiar a lot of theater guys like me um it still felt like hbo you know

you think about you think back like ed falco's on the first two seasons but in the second season she's also tonyoprano's wife. Right. Which is something that they would never do now in 2018, right? They would never have a character on two different shows. Back then, it's still like, oh, we like her. We'll throw her on this other show. I don't feel like they knew how big these shows were going to be.

Well, I mean, that was also part of the beauty of Fontana as the sort of paterfamilia, you know, because he let us out. I'm thinking of Harold getting out to do the Matrix movies. Right. He let me out to do Spider-Man. I mean, he was like, I'm not going to stand in people's way. Yeah.

I got all these characters on my show. I mean, Dean Winters went off and did the SVU, the Chris Maloney. I mean, most of us had other opportunities coming our way because of Oz. And Fontana never stood in the way. He always made it work. Yeah. I mean, I used to always brag about, you know, people would talk about what a great cast it is.

And I'd say, well, yeah, man, it's New York. That's where the best actors are. Yeah. Now I live in L.A., so I don't say that so much anymore. What did you think was peak Oz? You know what? What was the highlight for you? You don't even think back anymore.

I mean, I don't. It was such a groundbreaking show, I think, in just American culture and obviously such a career-altering thing for me. At the time, I was just, you know, trying to live in the moment and loved it, but I don't, I mean, I haven't. Then you just move on. Yeah, I haven't watched it in forever.

Because it's streaming now. I guess the first moment that comes to mind is Lee Tergesen pooping on my face. You know, that was certainly a seminal moment in the history of television. I think it was the first face shitting. I think so. I mean, I can't recall another one.

There might have been some since. Tate, Tate's only 24. Did you watch Oz? Have you seen Oz? I've only seen a couple episodes, but yeah, I understand. Tommy, have you seen it? I've seen it three times all the way through. Oh, okay.

There you go. Yeah, I never know with the younger generation. Well, I mean, there were people that would come up to me on the streets and say, and like sometimes they'd come and say, oh, hey, Law & Order. And I'd go, oh, and that show Oz. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I just can't watch it.

You know? Like would apologize for the show being too intense for them. And I'd be like, hey, you know, it's okay. You know, don't feel bad. I think it did have a male audience. Well, I'm sure they definitely had that. I mean, we were a big hit in the village. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I mean, there were, but it went, I mean, every demographic, you know, black, white, young, old, rich, poor. I mean, truly every demographic would come up to me with something to say about that show. My parents, you know, who were just about retiring age

and living in Missoula, Montana. Yeah. And they watched the show every week because it was such great storytelling about these characters. But my mom, and this is in the VCR days, 20 years ago, and my mom, we were talking on the phone one time, and she said, well, she said, we haven't watched last night's episode yet.

We decided it's not really good to watch it and then go to bed smart so we tape it and we watch it the next day we go out on the porch and listen to the birds sing and look at the sunny day and you know kind of unwind a little i can't i can't remember because i probably blocked it out of my mind did you get naked on us yeah you must have right everyone got everyone had their tour of nakedness on us. We all had our turn in the hole. And there was a major transition for me between the first season of Oz and the rest of Oz because the first season, I had pretty much been letting myself go for a long time.

And I started watching the show, you know, just as it aired. And I thought two things. First of all, just vanity and my former, gee, I used to think I was kind of athletic, you know, thing took over. And I was like,

oh my God, who is the dough boy? And then the other thing was just verisimilitude as an actor. I'm looking at that going, I don't, I'm having a hard time believing this guy is the head of the Aryan Brotherhood. And he looks like a steak puff marshmallow. Yeah.

So between the first and second seasons, I dropped like 35, 40 pounds. Did a little Billy Blanks tie bow? Not exactly, but, you know, a version of that. I actually trained with a Billy Blanks-looking kind of guy named Motts in New York. And, yeah, just got back into the gym. And really that was an impetus that's helped me mostly, I've had a couple of lapses, but, you know, mostly stay healthy and fit over the years. So when I was naked in the first season, I was kind of crumpled up in the corner. You know, hiding. the years so so when i was naked in the first season i was kind of crumpled up in the corner and then uh and then i the next time tom threw my butt in the hole i think um i uh i thought

i pitched this version of going into the hole to him where because i'm all hooked up now and i have arian brothers uh bill fagerbock he played a a corrections officer who was also one of my arian brotherhood guys so i thought i'm hooked up so instead of throwing me into the hole I'm going to walk in there like I'm the king of the joint and kind of strut in so I did my naked strut with my lily white butt

I definitely blocked that out of my mind good thing to black out I feel like Oz could come back I think they could actually I would say this about very few shows. I'm not saying we'll come back with you. I mean, you've ascended us. But I'm saying like the idea of a prison show,

I'm kind of ready for it again. I'm ready to go back in, especially a show like that. I'm just ready. It's been 20 years. I'm ready for another tour. All right. Well, I'll talk to Fontana.

Tom Fontana, yeah. Tell him to get all of his B-list ideas and start sprucing them up. Oz, too. I mean, God knows Frank Baum wrote like 1,000 Oz books. Why not? Did Oz blow up? I can't remember. Was there one where it almost?

It was almost going to blow up. It almost blew up. Yeah. Thank God. And that was when we didn't know after season four. Yeah, if it was going to get canceled. We did alternate endings for season four because we didn't know. Actually, we had a version of me getting killed at the end of season four.

I got shanked by, God, was it Saeed? I think it was Kareem Saeed, Eamon Walker. And then, you know, we didn't know. They take me off. It's like, are they taking me to the morgue or the hospital? And fortunately for us, it turned out to be the hospital. The funniest thing, during the Oz run, you were in for love of the game as the manager of Kevin Costner's Perfect Game.

Yeah, yeah. My hometown Detroit Tigers. Oh, my God, it's children's managers. Is he going to start like an Aryan race war in the locker room? What's going to happen? You know what? First of all, that was the dream job of my life. Yeah, because you're a Tigers fan.

Because I'm a Tigers guy, born and raised there. And the only bad news for me was, despite the fact that I'm like one week, I think, older than Costner, he gets to play the stud pitcher and I get to play the manager. You have a little mustache, right? Well, I grew the stache for it. And my main thinking there was Jim Leland. You smart. Who also had Tiger ties, but he was the manager of the Pirates at that time. I was a big, obviously a big Tiger fan, but I was a big Jim Leland fan too.

And then I also thought, yeah, it won't hurt to distance myself a little bit from Vern Schillinger and Oz. I think in my review for that on ESPN.com I think I even mentioned you were Jim Leland-y in that movie. Something like that, yeah. One of his pet phrases was add a baby. Add a baby. And I did throw in some

add a babies. I mean, my first movie was Sam Raimi. We ended up doing five movies together and we're talking about another one hopefully that'll happen. And he always, in my experience with him, has given everybody, and certainly myself, room to move or room to play, room to improvise. So a lot of what you see in the dugout, especially,

is just the cameras get turned on and Sam goes, okay, it's the bottom of the eighth and the time runs on third and ready to go, you know? I think if you're making a baseball movie with characters from different movies, I think that's the manager. It's him and maybe the coaching staff from The Natural would be my two, those two guys.

I'll take it. That would be my three dudes. I'll absolutely take it. I have a really complicated relationship with that movie because i think the baseball stuff is fantastic and i've i've even written this if you just took out the entire love plot and you just cut it into a 70 minute baseball movie it would be spectacular. Because when I'm flipping channels in the baseball, it's like, oh, here's the part where Costner's about to realize he's actually throwing a perfect game.

Or, oh, this is the Mickey Hart part. Like, I'm in for all those. And then it's like, oh, here's Kelly Preston. They're on a date again. I'm like, hey, can we get back to the perfect game? Well, you're not alone there. Yeah, I'm not alone. It was the flaw of the movie. But to me, that was the beauty of the book, which is this little novella, really, is that dichotomy and the deeper real-life aspects of that love story.

But definitely, most of us who were in uniform in that movie pretty much agree with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing against Kelly Preston. I mean but It's just the baseball stuff was so good and then the rom-com stuff was just rom-com stuff. And it is one of those baseball movies where

because God knows we've seen plenty of sports movies where they're like wow did anybody involved with this ever play a sport of any kind ever? And this movie was so smart with the baseball stuff and costner's a really good athlete i mean i'm on the bench with guys who are high minor leaguers or ex big leaguers or ex coaches jim colborne uh who played my uh my third base coach who's still a buddy to this day

um and and and they're saying wow this guy can play this guy can throw oh yeah move think how many pitches he he uh he randomly came to the grantland holiday party once because jimmy kimmel brought him yeah and of course i cornered him for 20 minutes about sports sports movie questions but he said he threw like a kajillion pitches oh dude and he was like i don't he was like by the end of that movie my shoulder was just gone yeah it was just history there was no like 110-pitch count with Costner. He did seven Tommy John surgeries. He said John C. Reilly, they had to get a little creative with the cutting around his throwing.

Maybe a little, yeah. He had everything down with the catching except for having the cannon arm, maybe, and everything else. And then the scene where he scores the only run of the game, scores from second to everybody's surprise on a single, yeah because he is a catcher um and they that's what once we were shooting i'm sorry john i'm sorry i'm throwing you under the bus here man i love you i'm gonna see him in a few weeks um he had a sliding issue but they had you know he had to come barreling down you know the third baseline to home, very close tag play,

and this is in the old block the plate days, and slide head first into home, right? And they did it a couple times with his double, who I'm an idiot because I forget his name, who was a ball player. And then they did it with John, and it wasn't Colborne. It was one of the other ex-Big Leaguers coaches who was sitting next to me. He's got the big, you know, chaw in.

And John did his first take of running and diving and sliding headfirst. And this guy leans over me and goes, Jesus Christ, it looked like it got shot by a sniper. I love that movie. I like when he signs the baseball it always gets me tell him I'm through for love of the game

it's just great it's a great moment and thanks for not calling it for the love of the game which 90% of people do like the movie I did called Thank You For Smoking and people just always call it

Thank You For Not Smoking because that's it's a good one the Costner the Costner baseball movie trilogy yeah of the field of dreams bull durham and then playing the aging pitcher at the end but i was thinking of any time there's an old pitcher i always there's like always like a billy chapel shadow how did you become jason reitman's spirit animal yeah you know did you audition for that? It's a beautiful thing. I did audition for the first one, Thank You for Smoking.

But did you have to audition to be a spirit animal, or was that just kind of a separate audition? Well, I guess that was an audition that I was unaware of, because when I, first of all, when I went to audition for his first movie, Thank You for Smoking, because I'm, you know, an idiot who, I'm not tuned into showbiz at all. I had no idea who Jason Reitman was. He was this very hot, you know, up and coming director, all these short films. He was already a Sundance darling. He's by the way, the son of Ivan Reitman,

who everybody in show business, you know, knows and worships. And yeah, I just went to this. It was just like this cool script and this fun character and I'm going to audition and it's kind of a pain because it's out in Santa Monica and I live, you know, in Hollywood. And I'm there, I'm on time and they're behind as they always are

and I'm waiting like 45 minutes and then I go out to plug my parking meter and, you know, this person, whoever he is, Jason Reitman, is not there yet. And I'm out plugging and I'm deciding, am I going to plug my parking meter, or am I going to just get in my car and go home and have lunch with my wife? Because at a certain point, for me, back in the days when I had to audition,

it would be like, I've waited 45 minutes minutes and I'm just getting irritated and antsy. And if this character is not irritated and antsy, I'm not going to do well. So I was kind of having that interior battle. And then as I'm deciding and standing by the parking meter, this random dude comes up and he goes, hey, J.K. Simmons. And it was a point where I sometimes got recognized, but not usually with my full name. And it was a point where I, you know, sometimes got recognized, but not usually with my full name. And I went, yeah, yeah, how you doing? And he took this half second pause and he went, I'm Jason Reitman. He said, I'm so sorry I'm late. I'm here to, and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just, just plugging my meter here, you know, cause I'm, cause I'm totally

ready to wait around for a little more. And, uh, auditioned for him. Obviously, it went well. He asked me to play the part. And despite the fact that he's basically, I'm his dad's generation, you know, I mean, I could be his father biologically. He became a real mentor to me. And I invited him to join our poker game, which was a bunch of, you know, old farts my age. And I remember when I first invited him to join our poker game, which was a bunch of old farts my age.

And I remember when I first invited him, he said, yeah, I don't really play poker. And I said, perfect. Right. Bring some money. We'll teach you. We'll take your money. We'll take your money and teach you how to play.

And within five or six games over the course of a few months, he was immediately the best player at the table because he's just a genius guy. And yeah, and anyway, then he, you know, so at a poker game a year later, he hands me this script and he goes, you got to read this. This is really good.

And I think I'm going to do it. And there was this little movie called Juno. And he didn't even tell me, I want you to play this awesome part of the dad. I was, so I'm reading the script thinking, oh, here's this little one-scene part. Maybe I could do that. Maybe I could do this.

How many have you done with him now? At least four, right? Four, five. Oh, I just finished one this fall, a movie called The Front Runner. Well, I know he feels like you're his good luck charm. He's called me his muse yeah which is uh troubling but um yeah yeah i mean every one of his features that's come out to date i've i'm either in or in one we just because there was no part that made sense for

me to do that wouldn't just sort of be weirdly you know attention grabbing cameo he had me do an off camera voice in his movie Young Adult just so we could say yes I've been involved in every right I really liked Young Adult I never understood why Charlize didn't she came on the podcast six months ago and she was like so excited that

I liked it and thought that movie was awesome because I think like everybody who was in it was like why didn't this do better yeah yeah no it was a that movie was awesome because I think everybody who was in it was like, why didn't this do better? Yeah, yeah. No, it was a brilliant, brilliant movie. Because she was unbelievable in it. And she was crazy. Yeah.

I mean, so, yeah. And it was a great, they have another movie coming out. Yeah, yeah, he likes her. I think in the spring, yeah. That's going to really, really turn heads again. Yeah, she was unbelievable. And the bold choices in the storytelling there

and that she just 110% went with it. She totally did. She was awesome. So you became, over the 2000s, you turned into this kind of high-level character actor. And you're in all these different things, popping in and just doing good stuff. And that keeps going.

And then all of a sudden, whiplash happens. Go figure. And that was Reitman there was a Reitman connection there yeah he sent me the script he emails me the script and he goes

and it was a script at the time for the feature film and also the short film and he said you know you gotta read this

it's great and and the kid's like what 26 Damien oh younger than that 24 he was like 24 and he said, you know, you got to read this. It's great. And the kid's like, what, 26, Damien? Oh, younger than that. He was like 24, I think, when I met him. And he looked like, this was, when I first met Damien, I had, I just read the scripts, the short film and the feature. It's, you know, everybody who's seen it knows that it's genius. And I'm so excited to meet this guy.

And I'm thinking, okay, this is a film, a story about jazz, the ultimate American art form, really African American art form. The guy's name is Damien Chazelle. I have no idea who that is, but in my mind I'm seeing Antoine Fuqua. Yeah. Right? Giselle. I have no idea who that is, but in my mind, I'm seeing Antoine Fuqua. Yeah. Right. So I'm thinking I'm going to, there's going to be this, you know, tall, impressive black dude with like a beret on or something that I'm, that I'm going to go meet. And, and they set up the meeting and we're going to sit down and we're going to have lunch. And I,

and I walk into the restaurant and I'm kind of, I mean, if, if you filmed this moment, nobody would believe it. Cause I'm like like looking around looking around and i'm looking right through and past this like skinny little curly haired jewish kid from new jersey who's finally starts raising his hand and waving and going hi jk it's me damien and i went oh my god is this really the mind that spawned this work of total genius. So yeah, I mean, you know, and the rest was just, we did the short film. It's almost like you had to use your Broadway chops in that movie. Oh, well, my, no, back way before that.

I had to do my, I got my degree at the University of Montana in music. Yeah. And compositions, voice, conducting. So this is like the perfect movie for you. Yeah, yeah. And that was the first thing that after we sat down, Damien said, he said, listen, first of all,

I just want you to not be intimidated by the musical aspects of this. He said, you know, we'll have a consultant, you know, a professional conductor who, you know, can help you. And we'll have a body double, you know, that we can use for some of the long shots to do the real conducting stuff.

And I said, no, you don't need to, because that's my whole background. And he was, I mean, there was this sort of kismet moment where he went, wow. He wrote the thing with Miles Teller in mind without knowing that Miles had been playing drums since he was 15 years old. Seriously?

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, this was one of those things that was like you look back on it and everything was just meant to be and everything came together you know i said this we had miles on a few months ago and i was saying it's not a sports movie but it kind of feels like one it's like there's like this genre of sports movies that have no sports in it that have like kind of the beats and moves of a sports movie with the same kind of... The music scenes are basically the sports movie scenes. Yeah, yeah.

No, like a boxing movie. Yeah, it's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's like this mano a mano something. Yeah. So at what point did you think you had a chance to get nominated for an Oscar for this?

I don't... Had you been nominated for an Oscar before? I don't remember. No, and I'd never. I'd never. I'd always had this sort of weird, disdainful distancing thing from, oh, awards for the arts or anti-creative, you know, whatever, you know. And but and it had never been really a part of my world since I got the best actor trophy

at the Big Fork Summer Playhouse in Montana. I was in college, you know, and I just I mean, it didn't cross my mind at all. We made the short film with another wonderful actor, Johnny Simmons, playing what became the Miles Teller part. And the short film went to Sundance, made a big splash, best short at Sundance, blah, blah, blah. And it accomplished what it set out to do, which was let's get some interest and some money

so we can get $3.5 million or whatever and make the feature. And now I've been digressing so much, I forget what your question was. Time is going to help us. Oh, awards. Oh, yeah. Did you think? Yeah.

Well, we were in Cannes, which was my first time at Cannes, and Miles couldn't make it. Damien and I were there. The reception at Cannes was like a storybook. Again, if you filmed it, people would go, okay, all right, stop, because people don't clap that long at the end of a movie. And we're at a little bar restaurant afterwards having some food and a drink,

and my agent's there, and Damien, and Michael and Tom, the guys from Sony Classics who had just picked up the movie, and they were telling me, this was in May, and they were telling me, so this is what's going to happen now. This festival, that festival, you're going to go here, here, here, and here.

We were very optimistic. There's going to be nominations for all these awards. And you're going to need to do this, this, this, and this. And go to London and go to Toronto and go to. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm not. No, thanks. I'm not. I'm going to go to my next job.

I'm going to go back to my family and drive the kids to school and work when there's work and hope that it's in L.A. like Whiplash was. And we had this ridiculous sort of back and forth where Michael and Tom were going, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we get it. But you've got to understand, this is like big and could be like, and I just kept going, yeah, no, I don't care. That's not why I do it, blah, and I was, and I just kept going, yeah, no, I don't care. I don't, I'm not, that's not why I do it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And finally, Michael, yeah, it was Michael Barker who said, all right, all right.

What's it going to take? You know, like I'm holding out, you know, because apparently, I guess people ask for, you know, pay me a hundred grand and I'll, you know, and I said, well, I said, I don't know. I mean, you know, the reason I like working at home is because I like my life. I like my wife and kids. I like to see them every day. Watch Tigers games. I said, yeah, yeah. I said, how about they come with me?

And they said, well, sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, there it was. That sounds like a fun year. They were on the ride. Yeah. Yeah. And my wife and I sort of embraced the whole thing.

And she was on every red carpet with me from Palm Springs to here and there and everywhere. And the kids were along for most of it. My son got a little bored with it, but our daughter was into it. What do you remember about the whole award season's run from, I guess, Golden Globes all the way through? Yeah, yeah. It's basically the same award show over and over again, but the stakes keep getting higher. Yeah, but it was also like a snowball rolling downhill because the people who really know about all that stuff started telling me early on, they're like, it's not even a question.

You're like 900 it's not even a question. You're like, you're like, you know, 900 to one in Vegas. I mean, it's like they, everybody knows you're going to win all these awards, including the Oscar. So every time I went to one of those things or whatever, the New York film critics or this or that or the other thing, the Golden Globes, the SAG Awards, the BAFTAs in London, you know, it was with this weird sort of sense that, like, they're going to call my name, and I'm going to go up there, and they're going to hand me a trophy, and I'm going to try and think of something nice to say. And so when it got to the Oscars,

I'm sitting there with my wife, and she's in her beautiful purple dress, and we're down really close to the front of the stage, and it's the first award, I think, that they announced. And when they said my name, there was like a little sense of relief more than anything else because I was like, I mean, if they don't say my name, I'll feel like a complete schmuck. You feel like the Patriots in 07 or something. Yeah, yeah. And they did, and I went up there.

And for people who are interested, I had always, all those awards that I got, and I'm very grateful for that whole season, I never prepared a speech or memorized a speech or wrote down a list of names to thank or anything. I just kind of went up with usually sort of a general idea. This is what I want to say. This is what's important to me. This is what I want to get out there. Yeah. So, so I went up, I'm walking up on stage and I'm just kind of trying to keep my cool because it's the Kodak

theater and everybody in show businesses, you know, Meryl Streep is standing up down there clapping and actors that I've, that I've known and respected for years, but, I mean, not known, but not known personally, are standing up, like looking at me like I'm their cousin or something. Like they have this sort of whatever, journeyman respect for my career or whatever. You're like the, yeah, you're the actor's actor. Yeah, yeah, and I've developed a reputation

that I'm not a pain in the butt to work with. Right. so so you know they like me they really really like me i spent a half hour with you i like working with you this is fun yeah i'm getting a little old frankly right now i'm kind of ready to go but um but but i'm walking up there sort of trying to think of what to say and uh lupita niango is is handing me the the trophy because she was the best supporting actress the previous year. And I get up to her and I'm kind of like in my head and not really focused. And I go to shake her hand, like, you know, not in the like,

sort of not Hollywood way. Like, oh yeah, you're supposed to do the fake kiss on the cheek. But I'm also reaching for the trophy. And what I ended up doing, and you can rewind this, you can find this on YouTube, I basically gave her just a little headbutt.

Really? Just a little bit of a headbutt as she's leaning in for the kiss and I kind of belatedly went, oh yeah, the fake kiss and a slight clash of noggins there. God, if you had drawn blood, that would have been awesome. That would have been the most unbelievable Oscars moment until they screwed up the envelopes. Would have been blown off the stage.

So then you go to the parties the whole night holding the Oscar. Yeah, which is just... That's got to be the best. It's like holding a deer's head. Just like, I just shot this. Seven points. Took this thing down. So then what happened to your career?

You're just getting all these crazy opportunities? Well, my career was already well beyond anything i had ever fantasized about or imagined you know but but yeah i mean another stratosphere it just i mean the sheer level of offers and scripts flying my way you know increased immediately and of course half of them were to play a guy that berates everybody and this is you know i mean it was like oh it's like whiplash light right now um you're an angry college basketball coach yeah exactly yeah yeah um so uh you know it was it was easy to turn down a lot of things and and uh and and really a position of uh you know which i'm still more or less find my with self in myself in, of scripts just keep coming.

Oddly, the biggest benefit of that is that it's given me the confidence to sort of not always work and know that I'm going to be all right and the offers are going to keep coming. I took the whole summer off this past summer, traveled around Europe with my wife and kids. I took all the way from,

I finished the Jason Reit movie um in the middle of november and i'm and i'm not going back to work until a week after next and it's it's been you know my age is getting a little like you know come on man you're turning down a lot of stuff you know but uh you know and i haven't always made brilliant choices i didn't always make brilliant choices before but But I'm only doing stuff that I find interesting, especially if it shoots in L.A. Without getting too movie nerdy, you couldn't have been surprised by Damien's next thing in La La Land. And between Whiplash and that movie, just what happened?

Oh, I mean, he's going to make brilliant movies for, you know, hopefully the next 50 years. I hate the word genius, but do mean he he's gonna make brilliant movies for you know hopefully the next i hate the word genius but do you think he's actually a genius yeah i it's not because it seems like people actually think he is a genius yeah that word gets tossed around but i i've used it for him and i i without you know without feeling like oh well i'm kind of you know over inflating something no i mean i think I think that word absolutely applies. And his film that he's working on now, First Man, is a biopic about Neil Armstrong walking on the moon. It's going to be such a departure from La La Land, which was such a departure from Whiplash.

He's going to continue to surprise people and just be brilliant forever. I felt bad for him with the La La Land stuff because it became this polarizing movie and I don't think he ever intended it to be a big movie. I think this was like he used Whiplash to make this little crazy idea he had that he really believed in

and I didn't think he wanted it to be the biggest movie of the year. Yeah, no, no, no. And that idea for La La Land had been in his head even before the idea for Whiplash, even though Whiplash is, you know, semi autobiographical. I thought that sucked how that

played out because everybody's so eager to have the backlash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this year it's going to happen to three billboards. I know that thing's going to get rigged through the coals over the next four weeks because it's the favorite right now and people are going to decide it shouldn't be and here we go. We know how this goes. There are always haters

who want to pick on Michael Jordan. La La Land was a cool movie. I didn't love it. I didn't think it was the best movie of the year, but I'm glad I saw it and I thought it was really creative. When you get right down to it, it's the same with awards like that. You're picking a brilliant apple against a brilliant orange against against a great hammer i mean you know

it's it's you know they're they're different things my theory is that i think we should wait five years to give out the oscars like with the baseball hall of fame see what lasts baseball hall of fame we wait five years right i want to wait five with the oscars yeah i don't think that's gonna sell it definitely won't sell. It definitely won't sell, but sometimes you look back and you go, oh. Yeah. You know, like I think the movies this year,

I think five years from now, I think Get Out and Lady Bird, I think are going to have legs. I think people are going to remember 2017 for those two movies. I think you're right. I think Three Billboards will too. We'll see.

I don't know. That was a big favorite of mine this year um i mean you know as usual you know this is the time of year where everybody's going oh it was a great year for movies and you know this really was a good year yeah yeah i thought i was i'm pro 2017 we've had you know it's like sports it comes and goes some year in sports you have like just incredible Final Fours and championship games and Super Bowls. And other years they all suck. So you never know. What made you want to do a star show? I didn't want to do TV or a star's show.

I just wanted to continue to chase good stories and good scripts and want to work with good people. And when this was presented to me, I actually didn't think, counterpart, I didn't think I would end up doing it. But it was shortly after Whiplash and after the Oscar and after all these things, and I was, you know, the flavor of the month, and everybody wanted to meet with me. And I got this script by Justin Marks, and I loved it.

And I loved it even before I got to the point of the script where this whole little sci-fi you know sugar gets sprinkled on the top of the storytelling yeah and uh but i went to the meeting with with justin and with jordan horowitz coincidentally producer of la la land yeah uh and uh and morton tilden who was uh directing the first episode of counterpart who i'd loved his work on the Imitation Game. And so I just thought, I really want to meet these guys. I don't know this guy, Justin Marks, but I love his writing. And we sat down to chat, and I said, I love it, I love it, I love it.

Here's why I'm not the guy. I'm not the guy because I think I'm 20 years too old for it. And they kind of talked me out of that. And Justin was like, no, no, no. I always saw this guy as this sort of pushing 60, you know, like his last opportunity to make something of himself. So he talked me out of that. And then I said, you know, I'm not comfortable with the idea of being,

you know, the guy that's there 70 hours a week. You know, part of the reason I like working at home is being, you know, the guy that's there 70 hours a week. You know, part of the reason I like working at home is that, you know, I actually like having a life and a job at the same time. So often in showbiz, if you're the lead on a show, you just, I mean, you work and you sleep and that's it. And I'm not loving that idea. And he said, well, after the first couple episodes, there's going to be a lot of subplots and you're still going to be the lead guy,

but it's not all going to fall on you. And, you'll have a morning off once in a while take your kids to school and then the third thing i said was it's set in at the time it was set in sort of generic eastern europe and they were going to shoot in romania and i was like yeah well that's you know that's i'm out i just can't i mean that's just not me that just doesn't fit my life and they all sort of looked at each other around the table and morton said, I can shoot LA for Romania. And I was in total shock. Yeah, I was in total shock. I've said that often.

I was like, wow, you win a bunch of trophies and you can pretty much do whatever you want. Yeah. And so, yeah, I signed up. And then they went and took the show with me attached to it after we made our deal. And they went to pitch it to networks. And the usual suspects, Netflix, HBO, Showtime,

Starz, on down the line, like 15 networks. And there was interest from a lot of people. And Starz stepped up and said, look, we want it badly enough. We're going to ask for two seasons up front. We'll guarantee you two seasons up front based on what we have right now. So that was how we ended up at Star Wars. I'm putting three on my DVR,

and I told you this before we started. And then I'm watching all three in a row because that's my new strategy with TV shows. You're allowed. I'm too used now to being able to watch more than one, so I like to do three in a row. So you're a victim of the 21st century attention span. Yeah, that ADD thing.

Yeah. But I'm excited for it. The ads were good. I thought the ad campaign was strong. It got me interested. Usually ad campaigns are bad for TV shows. This was actually a bad thing. And I'm not, as the marketing department knows,

I'm not a big, I mean, I like doing the work. I'm not a big fan of the marketing for TV shows in general either, but I think they did a great job with this. And more importantly, the show is intriguing enough and smart enough that it's getting good reviews and people are loving it and the word of mouth is good. So yeah, hopefully it'll be around for a few years. What's the best scene, best acted scene you've ever been in?

The scene with me and me. What do you mean? The scene in Counterpart where I play my own counterpart. And there's two J.K. Simmonses just... You're acting with yourself? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Best actor I ever worked with. The guy. I mean, I know what everybody's been talking about all these years. Now I get it. This guy's something. Now I have worked with. The guy. I mean, I know what everybody's been talking about all these years. Now I get it. This guy's something. Now I have that experience. The Tigers haven't won a World Series since 1984. I gotta go.

That was 34 years ago. Thank you. 33 and a half. Yeah, yeah. And this year, the Tigers are basically the Mudhens. Right. Are the Tigers officially,

is it officially a tortured fan base? Because I feel like two generations makes you tortured. Because the 86 Mets now, I think, qualified last year because they were 31 years. Now, I'll accept arguments from Mets fans after they pulled the World Series out of their assholes in 1986. But now it's been 31 years. If you're 36, you don't remember that. Well, we've had the Jim Leland years. If you're 36, you don't remember that. Well, we've had, we had the, the Jim Leland years.

Yeah. And, and, and that, you know, two world series, I mean, playoff,

playoff appearances, you know, expected and delivered almost every year. A great, great run. Uh, you know, we underperformed in a couple of world series.

That's, you know, you can't say, oh, Jim L you can't say oh 2013 was a disgrace because you guys had a better team than my red sox just i don't know how we beat you just bad coaching bad base running bad defense it was a cluster played umpiring but i'm not gonna you know i mean whatever i'm not gonna okay um yeah i mean you know a lot of things got to bounce your way and and you know we had that horrible World Series against the Cardinals.

Yeah. And then at least as bad against the Giants. And then, yeah, that series against your Red Sox was a heartbreaker. Are you going to these games? Are you using your Hollywood clout to get in there? I'm going to. You know what? I didn't go to any of the World Series games.

In 06, Leland's first year, when we were like the big surprise, I did go to watch us beat the Yankees in Yankee stadium. And, and we went, flew out just for the game with a buddy of mine. And then that was the one game that was rained out. And, uh, and I'm, I'm calling my wife, you know, we're back at the hotel. I'm calling my wife and going, Oh, you know, blah, blah, blah. What a bummer. The game was rained out and you know, Oh, I'll see you'm calling my wife and going oh you know blah blah blah what a bummer the game was rained out and you know i'll see you tomorrow she goes what are you talking about she goes you're not gonna get a plane tomorrow she goes i don't care whatever's going

on i'll handle it you know if it's work screw it she said you you're there you know just go to a seedy casino tonight in detroit or ont, no, this was in New York. And yeah, so we went, saw an awesome game the next night, the two of us in our Tigers gear being those two guys in the stadium. And then a week later, we jumped in the car and drove up to Oakland for not the deciding game in Oakland. I don't remember. It was game two maybe in Oakland and saw a great Tigers victory there

with Todd Jones making me crazy. Sounds like you're ready for another baseball movie. I think I am. Yeah, yeah. You think I'm too old to play the center fielder? I don't know. Were you in Moneyball? I was at the table read of Moneyball.

Didn't get it. What were you trying to get? I didn't get it. Well, that was the part they were looking at me, they were interested in me for. It was not the part I was actually interested in. I thought, okay, I'm a bald white guy, so I'll play Art Howe. I didn't think it was that great a match otherwise.

There was another part that I kind of had my eye on that obviously didn't come my way. But great movie. All right. So everybody we have on a podcast somehow wants to make a baseball movie. Tommy, we just have to get up. Miles Teller wanted to do it. Gyllenhaal wanted to do it.

Who else? Jon Hamm. I was just talking to Jon Hamm about this two weeks ago. I'll take all those guys on my team. We have all the makings. I just need like a month to grow the mustache. Koster's ready. Absolutely.

Koster's ready for a 60-year-old pitcher. Yeah, he's going to have to be on my coaching staff this time. He'll be the team owner. He's your old knuckleballer. He's figuring out how to stay in the league. Cranston. Oh, Cranston. That was the other one.

Cranston. Yeah, Koster will be my don't look back, something might be gaining on you guy. Cranston's one of those, this is how you really know somebody loves baseball. The guys who are still in the baseball leagues. Yeah. And they're like in their 40s and they're out on Tuesday nights

playing like real baseball. Dude, and I played, I mean, I gave up on real baseball a long time ago, but I played softball, you know, in the Broadway show league and this and that. And I still, 63 years old, boys and girls. Yeah. I still, once a year, myself and a lot of my oldest buddies drag ourselves up to northwestern Montana for an annual softball game,

the Townies against the Playhouse that we started in 1970. Do you bring an athletic trainer for the pulled hamstrings and torn Achilles? And the worst part of it is when you do tear six things every year because you're old, then you sit on a plane or get in a car for a day and a half and stiffen up all the way home. Your legs like a rock. I got to have at least a week after that game before I can go back to work. How much?

But we have beaten the townies one more time than they have beaten us. Wow. My God. Sounds like this should be televised. Facebook Watch. Let's talk about it. How much Tiger stuff did you steal from the set of For Love of the Game? Oh, so much.

Just every day you're taking stuff? Yeah. But I didn't even have to steal it because I got to be, and this wasn't like Machiavellian on my part. I just, both the wardrobe guy and the prop guy were these great guys that I really hit it off with. So the day I wrapped on that movie,

which was not the final day of shooting, I'm in my trailer and, you know, saying goodbye to all these great people and both the prop guy and the wardrobe guy just showed up like looking over their shoulder with a plain cardboard box going, hey, JK, it's great working with you. Get this into your trunk as soon as you can.

Yeah, sneak this over. Yeah, man. I mean, gloves and the balls and the whole costume, the jacket, you know, a few hats. You've got to have your home hat and your road cap. And I still, I mean, and Frank Perry was, you know, that was my second or third year of Oz. So I was in fighting shape then. I was pretty trim and lean and mean.

And so, you know, that's one of the things that keeps me uh that keeps me from ballooning back up again is i gotta be able to wear those clothes that frank perry stuff still not positive the final out the the grounder on the second base side the shortstop coming over and then hitting the ground getting up and throwing out. That has to be a really slow base runner. I know it's Hollywood. That's just a lot of time that's happening. The chopper, Costner touches it. Shortstop comes over.

I don't know. I almost think the batter has to fall coming out of the box. No, it was a slow runner. It has to be very slow. But every team's got a catcher and an aging right fielder or something. It's Hollywood. That's what Hollywood does. It's Hollywood.

And slow-mo. You don't know how fast it's happening. You don't know how many frames per second. I don't have a feel for it. J.K. Simmons, this was fun. You're one of my favorite Simmonses that I'm not related to. You're on my list of favorite Simmonses. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Definitely top 20. Thank you. Appreciate it. Top 20, I'll take it. Good luck with the show thank you all right thanks a lot thanks to zip recruiter the smartest way to hire my listeners can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash bs thanks to gillette get gillette performance

delivered to your door no more getting mad at yourself because you just got back from the grocery store and realized you forgot to buy blades. What's worse than that? Subscribe today, pick your favorite razor, and get every fourth order free. Visit Gillette online at gilletteondemand.com. We have a couple more podcasts coming up this week. Don't forget about me on the Against All Odds podcast with Sal, the big Super Bowl props pod. For the first time, not on this feed,

but the good news is you will be getting it on the Ringer Podcast Network, as well as Sal's videos with Lombardi on Meat Eater Day and all the stuff on Sunday on the Ringer NFL show with Lombardi and Tate. More later in the week. I don't want to see them on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them On the wayside, on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them