The Bill Simmons Podcast - Daryl Morey on Ruining Basketball and the Surging Rockets, Plus Van Lathan and Rembert Browne on Nipsey Hussle's Legacy | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode Date: April 19, 2019

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Daryl Morey to discuss the Rockets' impressive start to the NBA playoffs, James Harden's progression, the 3-point revolution, and more (2:48). Then, Bill runs through the Patriots' 2019 schedule, some NFL over/unders, and things to watch out for this weekend in the NBA playoffs (29:07). Finally, Bill sits down with TMZ's Van Lathan and writer Rembert Browne to talk about Nipsey Hussle, his legacy, how he's inspired today's cultural leaders to uplift their communities, and more (37:17). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Binge Mode is finally back. You can listen to their recap of Episode 1 of Game of Thrones. You can watch our Game of Thrones coverage on our Twitter show, Talk to Thrones. Hashtag Talk to Thrones or at Ringer on Twitter. Also, the Ringer NBA show is firing up starting this week. Not only do we have me and Rosillo taping on Sunday night. You ready for that, Kyle? Yes, always.

You get fed. We get to watch Game of Thrones. Yeah, it's great. Also, the Ringer NBA show will also be taping Sunday night as well. So you'll have double basketball in the morning for yourselves. A lot of good stuff going on at the Ringer. The NFL draft coming up. We have draft boards right now. Danny Kelly did one for the NFL. He has thrown himself into the NFL draft

like nothing I've ever seen. People are in awe. People are just walking around the ringer offices right now going, God, Danny Kelly, I can't believe we get to work with this guy. Incredible effort by him. Kevin O'Connor, not to be outdone. He just released his top 30 draft board for the NBA. And I was looking through it and the Celtics have just a bunch of non-lottery picks. And I was just looking at these guys who kind of have potential, but not really, and just getting bummed out. Thank God they're up 2-0 in the series. We're going to talk about that in a second. Coming up, we're going to talk to Daryl Morey, Rockets GM, about the Rockets having kind of a look to them now. And I mean that in a positive way. Also, James Harden's possible MVP season and a whole bunch more. He's been on this pod

many times before. Also, Van Lathan, remember Brown, they're coming in to talk about Kanye, talk about the Michael Jackson doc, and most important, talk about Nipsey Hussle. So that is all coming up. But first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is four o'clock Pacific time Thursday. So there's some basketball games coming up.

If anything crazy happens to them, I'm sorry. What can I do? Daryl Morey on the line right now. Rockets GM. He's been the Rockets. He's worked for them for 13 years, and I don't want to jinx this. I'm going to knock on wood for you. This is the best I've ever felt about your team.

Let's start there. What do you think of that? You never feel good about our team, so this is a big moment. That's not fair. How's your track record? I want to know how your track record is. My track record, most of the time, has been really good. I think there were two years

where I picked the under for you guys and you got mad at me. It was like, you, we never go under. We never, every year we always overachieve. We're always the over except one year where we're under like by like 15. Yeah. That year when, uh, the wheels came off and, uh, Dwight's last year. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Well, we don't talk about that anymore. Hey, I've been saying how you guys have the look. There's a look to your team. And I will define the look as this.

You know who you are. The hierarchy is in place. Everyone knows who the best guy on the team is. Everyone knows who the second best guy on the team is. Everyone knows what their role is. You took care of business in those first two games, which is what you had to do. And there's just a general feel with this team. At what point in the season did you feel like this team had that look?

I'd say after the All-Star break, we just started. And you watch the basketball. It's it's, if you're just squeaking out game, you're probably not going to be winning the title. I mean, the reality and mostly here we were squeaking out game. We were winning enough, but we were squeaking them out.

But post all-star, we had every player healthy. We had to your point, our guys off the bench in clear roles with austin rivers gerald uh daniel house uh iman shumpert uh farid had you know mike was really settling in on how he was going to use them and then we just started beating teams in a big way our only losses really were to milwaukee on the on the second night of a back to back. And then we had one night where we just had a bad night, but I think we were,

you know, over the last 20 games, I think we won 16 games, something like that. That's why I was like, Hey, this, this might be, this might be the time. Obviously we're still, you know, if we, if we advanced us, Utah, we're still about to face a buzzsaw of a team, but, um, yeah, there's a lot of confidence in the locker room right now. And, you know, let's, let's, if we can turn it into doing what we've been trying to do for a long time here. So last year, I don't know if you know this, but you came really close to winning the title last year. And, uh, I don't know if you blocked it out or if you had a hypnotist remove the second half of game six, game seven, but that was a really, really brutal loss. And one of those losses where you kind of don't know if the team's going to be the same after.

And if, you know, you had your window and if a couple, the way the league works, you have that window, you only come close so many times. You and I were leading parallel lives as we were watching the, uh, the rim rattling. Oh yeah. I had it. Yeah. It was twice in 24 hours. But you know, in your case, it was like, man, you know, Chris Paul, who knows, who knows at his point in his career, you're going to get like a great, great season out of him anymore. Is he going to move into a different phase of his career? Will Harden ever be this good again?

And then the team goes into the next season and there was definitely a little bit of a hangover. Now you, you changed the personnel a little bit. so that's one of the reasons it got better. Yeah, some of that was on me, I would say. You took a couple gambles. But did you feel like there was a hangover those first 20 games from how close you came the year before? I'll be frank. It was really hard to figure out what was going on.

A lot of the acquisitions weren't playing well. That's why I say it's on me. Really, even acquisitions weren't playing well. That's why I say it's on me. Really, even our starters weren't playing well. So that could be a hangover. I don't know what we could have just had bad luck. Honestly, you know, we didn't have Coach Pizdelic, who was a big part of our defense the prior year. We had just a bunch of things all at once, not going well. Yeah. And frankly, I was in, uh, uh, you know, I was like in a, an aggressive, uh, mode of just, let's just fix everything. Yeah.

Uh, and so, you know, brought coach back and our owner was a big part of that, uh, obviously changed out personnel over time. You know, injuries took Chris and Clint out, and they came back. And it all sort of meshed towards the end of the year, which was our hope always. You always hope that you're meshing and peaking in April. It doesn't always happen. But, you know, so I can't really tell you which of those changes that were made

mattered. And then obviously James Harden somehow got better, which, I mean, you know, internally we had talked about after every off season, he gets better, you know, his right hand gets better. This gets better. That get better. You know, internally we were like, well, what, it was almost like Pixar's on the string of amazing movies you know and then it's like well how do how does he top that how does he top last season and

he's somehow done it again it's really astonishing to watch what James is doing do you feel like the other players now feel like he's the best player in the league yeah absolutely like uh and and you you you know basketball history better than almost anyone I player in the league? Yeah, absolutely. You know basketball history better than almost anyone I know. The difference he gets... He just won the Players' Poll, which was like some poll the Players' Union did.

Yeah. The difference he gets is unbelievable. The only time I've really seen it was really maybe towards Kobe. When we had Ron Artest and Shane, who are two of the

better, I think, wing defenders in NBA history on our team, they would talk in mythical ways about Kobe and what he's able to do and how he's impossible to stop. That's sort of how I feel people talk about James a little bit in terms of

like, you know, what he's able to do and how unstoppable he is. Yeah. I mean, that was the best, the best two cases for him for MVP as I, as I tried to decide what to do was that, that, that I think there's a real deference to how good he is now with the other guys and you can really see it game to game and then the other thing is just digging out of that

8-14 hole when you know it actually seemed like you might not make the playoffs there for like a week because the West seems so stacked we always felt like playoffs were going to be fine but you're really not winning the title if you're squeaking into the 8th spot right if you're squeaking into the eighth spot. Right, if you're 43 and 39.

Yeah, so those were the two best cases for him. I still went, you know, I talked to you about it. I went with Giannis. I thought it was by a hair. And I really thought those were two of the best MVP seasons of the decade. You know, definitely like two of the best six. Yeah, you can't go wrong this year.

Both players were amazing. Yeah, as I've said publicly a little bit to people, like this is the year not to get mad about who people picked, like two amazing candidates. James has had a few years where there were multiple deserving and it was fine. It's really just the one year that really sort of stands out that people didn't really do their homework

and we should win. At least I wasn't one of those people. No, no. I'm on the red side of history. I like that you had shirts made about it. I did. Sometimes everybody's got to... We got to see. We got to put it all on the table

and see who's going to be judged. Well, you are like the basketball historian now. I try to be. Is there a new version of the basketball book? It's got to be. You got to make a new, an updated version, right? Yeah, I need some new version of Adderall

or something that would allow me to write it. That would give me the strength. I'm old now. Maybe when your kids graduate from high school, you get a little time. You got to update the pyramid. You got to update a bunch of stuff that needs to be updated. Well, I have been updating the pyramid. I just keep it for myself. What's funny is where Hardin just keeps climbing every time I dig into the document.

I think now if you won the title, I think that makes him the fourth best guard of all time. What's amazing. So you're talking across point guards and shooting guards there. I'm sorry,

fourth best two guards. Fourth best two guards. Yeah. It seemed, it seemed high. Yeah. A lot of his career left to be fair.

Yeah. Cause I think it's, who are the, who are the three for sure a lot of his career left, to be fair. Yeah, because I think it's... Who are the three for sure ahead of him, do you think? Well, you got Jordan, you got Jerry West, and you got Kobe. Or Kobe and Jerry West. You got those three that have been full careers. Pretty good group. A lot of rings, finals appearances, all kinds of...

You know, you talk over a decade of just doing stuff. What's interesting about his career is, as you said, he's added something every year for the last five pretty much, but the five-year stretch he just had is all time. It really is. It's like one of the best five-year offensive stretches anybody's had. It's not quite on the level of Jordan's best five

or Kareem's best five, but on that next tier, his best five, numbers-wise, is as good as any five Durant seasons. I have a question for you. Because there have been players that defenses have been, teams are having to design whole schemes to stop. Have you ever seen anything where a team is just like, I'm just going to play behind the guy,

not even between the player and the hoop. No, but it does remind me of some of the stuff that was going on with Jordan in the late 80s, early 90s, where he really evolved defense, as weird as that sounds. If you go back and watch the games from the 80s, I don't feel like... People played defense the last five minutes, but it wasn't quarter by quarter. And he was the first guy that teams really concentrated on how to stop him for four straight quarters. I can't remember seeing that before.

Some analogies that when the Celtics won the title and went against those Laker teams in the recent past where Kobe, you know, where Doc Rivers and Thibodeau were designing their whole D to, you know, trap Kobe. And then if he beats the first guy, there's, you know, there's a guy overloading the strong side.

And it sort of reminds me a little of that. I remember Kobe having quotes about how it was the most impossible defense for him to go again. Yeah. And they were trying to rope him into doing hero ball anyway, even though they had two guys on him. Iverson faced some weird stuff too. And I think there was a couple of Wade years there

when he didn't have a lot of help, where he was putting up 30 a game and kind of being defended the same way I was. Yeah, I think the difference with this is you know, what did he shoot? Like 11, 12 free throws a game? The punishment that he takes and his ability to withstand

I think he'd take, what do you think? He'd take six to seven pretty big hits a game now, right? Yeah, it's gone down I would say. I've been pleased. Like, he's really diversified his game with the floater, you know, with the step-backs. And he's done it.

So I'm feeling just like we're very optimistic on Chris Paul going forward because a lot of his games like Q and obviously a lead to passing. James's game has evolved from, obviously, like Wade said, where he's going to the hoop all the time to where a lot of it's sort of diversified, which I think will help keep our run going forward. Well, it's funny. He ruined basketball and so did you.

You're the 1A and 1B of when people talk about how basketball has been ruined. Do you read the two examples? kids and took them back to an average game in 1994 or something like that. The Czar, the Telestrators, Cleveland average teams against some random Detroit team at the time. You'd be like 70 to 65.

I think we're helping basketball. Remember the Celtics-Pistons series? What was that, in 02, the 67-65 game? Remember that? Oh, I was there. Yeah, me too. It was awful.

Yeah, it was a rock fight. No, no. People, like, I don't even think it would be recognizable, some of those games. So, actually, how people are guarding james hard now i've been talking to people so dick harder was at the celtics when i first started and he was part of that generation of coaches that was really designing defenses yeah keep players from ever having a full head of steam toward the hoop they would

hard hedge or trap to turn the ball handler and never get anything that would put you in jeopardy with the referees. And now we're in 2019, and teams are giving James a full head of steam to the hoop with his right hand. A Dick Harder rip might be rolling over in his grave right now. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, a lot of stuff has gone in the direction of somebody like Harden. You know, the hand check rules changed. The defense of three seconds.

The pace where you have like the ball goes out of bounds or rebound. It's a 14 second reset. Everything about basketball is a little bit faster, which is great for him. And then, you know, he, he really worked on his game. You know,

he really did add something. It seemed like every year. And I always thought, you know, that when you made the trade, I think I was, I was at the forefront of people who just couldn't believe it. But I never thought he'd become this.

You were. Yeah. There's a, you're on record. You have a Zach Lowe. I've, I've read two columns. I have two columns and a podcast. Yeah. But I never thought he was going to be the best offensive player in the league.

Nobody, nobody. It's impossible to see that. I mean, there were signs when he came off the bench, he was arguably the best offensive player in the league at OKC. But, you know, everyone had reasonable counters, and even us wondered, like, because he was a lot of times against backups, not usually getting the best defender. So you're like, OK, well, maybe, maybe, maybe.

But, no, he's just had a new level, you know, every single year. And if you go back, it was like 50- 50 on that trade, whether people liked it or not, which side they like. Yeah. That's pretty, pretty amazing. That's embarrassing. I don't know what to say about that. That's pretty bad. The, the, uh, the team this year, as you look ahead to the words, you're getting them around to not round three. Is that weirdly beneficial or am I crazy? To get them earlier?

It's very hard to know. Yeah, I mean, we can't control it. To be frank, we don't spend a lot of time on it. But we have talked about it internally and it could work in our favor, but it's very hard to know. I mean, I think as much as we could get injured, so could they. So, I mean, it's very, very difficult to know.

I mean, all I know is that we pretty much knew we were going to have to beat them. So, does the order really matter? Probably not. It would have been nice to get home court like last year. I think that could be a big factor, obviously. Last year at Oracle, their fans are great. I do think not having home court is a factor. I do think we're a better team going into the series.

But without home court, maybe our odds are similar to last year. I don't know. We do feel very strongly we have a real shot at it but obviously they're they're the champs yeah for the last four years

I was looking at I was looking at it more like from a health standpoint you're completely healthy right now knock on wood and the longer the playoffs go and especially

you know Chris has battled like nagging injuries his entire career with stupid little hamstring tugs or whatever. And you just know if you can get through this Utah series. We are slightly older than them.

So yeah, it could work in our favor. When does the three-point barrage revolution, it feels like there's more left. Like Milwaukee averaged 44 threes a game in the regular season. Are we headed towards 50? Is 50 realistic? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I mean, just because the talent coming in is going to be, you look at college, that's super three-point heavy.

Younger kids are watching the league now. So I just see the skill level go up, and that'll probably drive even more as well. Yeah, that's how I feel too. I think you're going to be in the first paragraph of this. Who was the one who said everybody should shoot threes initially? Was that you or did you borrow that from somebody else? Well, I mean, to be fair, if you go back to Don Nelson, maybe.

I mean, saying you should shoot more threes, it's not like it's rocket science, right? So I think we were maybe the first organization from top to bottom to commit to that as the direction we were heading and it's more of a larger commitment to using data and uh you know breaking the game down um so i do think you know that we are at the forefront of having a full organizational commitment, which has obviously been seen, you know, first at our D-League club, and now a lot of those principals at this club, and then Mike D'Antoni sort of turbocharged it.

But it would be hard. It would be like, who's the first Eurostep, right? I don't, like, people have tried to trace that, and there is a bunch of players doing it. It's just obviously Ginobili was the first very prominent guy. And then James took it to the next level. And so, well, now you're going to turn your attention to soccer. If you win the title somehow,

now soccer is your next thing about, uh, I'm pretty committed to here, but you and I both have kids who play soccer a lot. And so we see a lot of games. So I know you and I have chatted about, uh, it just it reminds me a

lot of basketball in the early 90s where there's a lot of these arguments like oh we do this because that's what the top coaches do well the top coaches all thought three pointers were stupid and yeah offensive rebounding was bad and i can point to like 50 things top coaches thought in basketball were a smart thing in the early 90s that for sure were not. And people were winning with suboptimal strategies. I see very similar things in soccer where they assume that because top teams are doing them, it's smart. But the reality is they just have more money and better players. So they're winning because of that, not because of the strategy they employ on the field. So you are a fan of the tactic of pressure, pressure, pressure, always move forward. You don't care about possession and kicking the ball backwards

to keep the ball and then make another run. You don't believe in that at the adult level at all. Yeah. I mean, at the, at the pro level and I, and I just talked about this with Roger Bennett who you know well since he got started at Grantland and yeah again there's been innovators in soccer the pressing getting into the other end of the pressing is obviously a big factor they need to translate that

into how teams play defense. Teams are still trying to too much possess in the backcourt. I wouldn't say possession doesn't matter. I would just say there's always a balance between how much you weigh possession versus getting into the right field position for

scoring opportunities. And right now, that weighting feels off to me. I watch a lot of Premier League now because of my son. And that waiting seems off. And it's changing pretty quickly, actually, when I watch. The full pressing when you have it in the other end is something that teams are adopting more and more of.

Yeah, because most goals are dumb goals that are mistakes from the other team. So I think that's what, you know, my daughter's 13. I was telling you how the way the best teams play at her level, they don't care as much about the possession. They care more about, you know, kicking the ball ahead to their fast kids and hoping something gets screwed up and mixing some pressure into that. Yeah, that's the thing. It's true in basketball defense too.

All these defenses are often designed around, we're going to do this rotation and if they pass it here, we're going to do this rotation. But it's like, we measure this, it's like 30-50% depending on the team, where a team makes a defensive mistake. Yeah.

And that's on every possession in basketball. It has to be true in soccer as well. So playing really more for these, like, pragmatic mistakes is often better than, like, let's figure out what's going to happen when I draw it on a piece of paper and I have exactly the right passes being made and no touch errors, no anything like that. So all this is coming. Once the data starts coming to soccer, which is coming, all these changes are coming and the coaches who adopt it will do better.

The ones that don't won't. Yeah, I might have to hire somebody from the Sloan Conference to just watch all of my daughter's soccer games and just do a whole bunch of advanced metrics on it. I really think some great stuff could happen. Well, to your point, I think you made it that at the lower levels, though, for development, some of the style that is most optimal may not be how you want to play when you're trying to develop passing, touch skills, possession skills, all that stuff still matters. It's just, you know, at the pro level. Yeah, I was telling you the possession in 1v1 is what our team cares about.

But then you play in a game and somebody's doing the other style and they get two chances and all of a sudden you lose two to one. You're like, what the hell just happened? We dominated the possession. But that's why soccer is so frustrating. Soccer is like, you can do everything right and get zero and you can do everything wrong and get zero and you can do everything wrong and still get one because the goalie makes a bad, you know, it's just, and every mistake is magnified. You know, that's why I'm a big, uh, I'm very down on, uh, teams that create chances through trying to play through the feet of their goalie. Right.

And most coaches love it because most coaches were field players. And they value, like, it's crazy. They value the feet skills of a goalie over their ability to stop shots. You know, so it's just really, like, there's just a whole, I could go on. Well, that's why we love basketball. Because you have a seven-game series. The right team usually wins. And in a situation, even like last year where, you know, you guys came so close and it didn't

happen. It was, you kind of had yourself to blame. You missed a lot of open shots, you know, very rarely does, very rarely does the wrong team win a basketball series. It's usually because of, you know, an injury at the worst possible time or, you know, something like that 2002 Kings situation

or, for the most part, it's the right, it's the right team. Yeah, and I love that as a team that's good. Yeah. But for a league,

for the NBA, I actually think it's bad. I think there should be more. More variance. Yeah. Yeah, because otherwise, like, there's just just there's just too many series too many games during the season where people know like okay this this team's 90 some percent to win like why am i tuning in so you know i think the league does a

good job they're trying to make strides to improve that and one thing i love of the nba is we don't we're not stuck in our history like i think it took baseball like 80 years to figure out you should just give the guy a free base. For an intentional walk. Yeah. A huge innovation. Oh my God, the sports ruined.

We're going to let them do an intentional walk. Yeah. Whereas, you know, every year I think the league at the NBA level does a nice job making tweaks to the rules to improve it. Yeah, I agree. Good luck in this series. Thanks. And good

luck for the rest of the playoffs. You know my heart's with the Celtics, but I'm always rooting for you a little bit, too. Well, last year we almost had the Celtics rock the final. This would be a good year for that. I hope I see you in Houston and not too.

I know you're big time now. You only come for the finals. Well, if there was a great game six next round, if you make it next round, I might be roped into that one. If there was a game six and you guys were up 3-2, that might be a can't miss sporting event. Good luck. Thanks for calling in.

We appreciate it. Okay, thanks. All right. Talk to you soon. Bye. All right, we're going to get to Vane and Rembrandt in a second. I wanted to read Kyle the Patriots schedule. Nice.

You ready for this? Yeah. I snuck a peek, but let's go. Let's just go through it really quick. Patriots over under 11 wins. Yeah? First game, Sunday night, Steelers home. Not losing that.

No, not without a B. Come on. Stop it. Or Le'Veon. Great. At Miami, week two, that feels like a loss. Be like 85 degrees. Brady with the four picks. I could see us losing that one. Jets home, week three. At Bills, week four. What is that? Three and one at that point? That's a gimme. We blow one of those

stupid games. Buffalo's a gimme, though. Week five, at the Redskins, we win that one. Week six, Giants. Come on. That's a night game, too. Week seven at the Jets. Could be 6-1. That feels like 6-1 to me.

They all feel like 6-1 to me, dude. Just such a shithead. This is great. People are getting so mad. Sorry. Cleveland Browns scared October 27th so that's coming

off a Monday night game at the Jets and then Browns that one scares me a little then at the Ravens the next week probably split those

I don't want to lose to the Browns I want to ride loose to the Ravens feels like 7-2 at the Eagles maybe we lose

that one maybe this is when what's wrong with the Patriots starts. We need that to happen in the season. Every Super Bowl season that we have to have. Yeah. Or maybe that happens the next week. Dallas, home. Wow, Dallas in Foxborough.

That has not happened that many times in my lifetime. Dallas playing. That's a good point. In New England. That feels like eight and three still. I'm sorry. At Houston. Can't remember the I'm sorry. At Houston. Can't remember the last time we lost to Houston.

When was the last time we lost to Houston? You can look it up if you want. Does not happen very often. That feels like a win. Kansas City, December 8th. But again, the schedule fairies gave us that one in Foxborough. A little cold.

Give me that one. A little revenge game. Then we have at Cincinnati, home for Buffalo, home for Miami. That feels like 12. I don't know. I can't name more than two receivers that are tight ends on the team right now since the draft hasn't happened yet and they haven't really signed anybody. That feels like 12 and 4 to me.

Feels great. Always trust the infrastructure. Feels like the AFC East to me. Feels like it might be the AFC. Always trust the infrastructure, Kyle. Speaking AFC East to me. Feels like it might be the AFC. Always trust the infrastructure, Kyle. Speaking of odds, AL East right now, Yanks minus 110, Rays plus 165, the Red Sox plus 350.

We're not even in the last eight days of April yet. Everyone's just bailed on the Red Sox. I'm not ready to bail yet. It's a long season. They have a $250 million payroll. I'll tell you this though. I have not enjoyed this season so far. I've not enjoyed really anything about it.

Quick NFL over-unders. I want to talk about this more next week. I'm going to have Sal come on, but I wanted to mention Pats 4-11 wins. Bears 9.5 seemed low to me. Yeah, nobody believes. I believe. You believe? They go 10-6, right? They're my Madden team now. Colts 9.5 seem low to me. Yeah, nobody believes. I believe. You believe?

They go 10 and 6, right? They're my Madden team now. Colts 9.5 seem low to me. I would say that Pat's Colts Chiefs would be my three for the AFC. I'm saying this before the draft

and having barely looked at all the rosters. It's just like those are the three on my radar. Jags 8 wins. Too high. Nick Foles, big dick Nick. Oh, yeah. Forgot about the big dick. Or maybe it's just high enough. Chiefs are 10 and a half. So that would be the pick if you're

going to say who is the most obvious one seed that's going to go 13 and three, 14 and two. But you never know. Steelers, nine wins. I thought seemed super high. Did not understand that at all. That is a bet the infrastructure over under. Niners, seven and a half wins, and that is already at minus 130 from what I've seen. And that feels a little bandwagon-y to me, but I do like the over. And then Washington, six and a half wins. House wants to do the under. House says they're going to win between five and six at some point. And then for NBA odds, the Celtics are still in plus 1,500 to plus 1,700 range, depending on where you look. Portland, 55-1 right now. And probably the safest bet to make the Western Finals, I would say.

Because who knows with this Denver Spurs series. So there you go. Quick things to look for for the NBA playoff weekend. Just very, very quickly. Don't get carried away with the Celtics yet. They're supposed to win at home. Indiana is not a good team, especially their guards.

And the Celtics really easily could have blown game two. But I do feel like, I do feel like we're really, I know this is a cop-out, but we're really not going to know what the Celtics team until next round. Because this Indiana team is not going to be able to push them.

You're supposed to win the first two games at home. I'm not ready to declare that this is now playoff Kyrie and playoff Tatum, all this stuff. They're supposed to beat Indiana twice at home. There were like seven half point favorites in each game. So that happens. Then the only thing to look for the Portland OKC series. I think that's the most interesting game three because you have an OKC series, I think that's the most interesting game three because you have

an OKC team now that came really, really close to making the finals in 2016 and has not been able to get out of the first round since that spent a lot of money last year and this year that has a roster that really can't be messed around with because

Westbrook and George make so much money. Schroeder's on the books for next year. So's Adams. They tied up, I think Jeremy Grant, they gave like 8 million a year. There's really no way to maneuver at all. And if they get swept in this series, and then it turns out Paul George has a torn rotator cuff or something, that'd be brutal. And you might be looking at the end of the decade, the start of the decade, so promising. Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka seem like the team of the decade,

and now they'd be coming out of the decade having only one finals game and having not been able to get out of the first round in the last three years. So I'll be really interested to see how they respond. And on the flip side, Portland, you know, at one of these points,

we're going to realize they lowered is one of the best seven guys in the league. And it might be even right now. So I'm watching that one. I'm watching the warriors, obviously to see the chemistry stuff. And then with Denver, San Antonio,

and I don't know what happened. We're taping this late Thursday afternoon. So I don't know what happened today, but it does worry me that Denver relies on Jamal Murray so much and that how he ebbs and flows as single

handedly determine what happened to them in those first two playoff games. They're going to need a third guy that cannot be their swing guy because I don't think he is consistent enough. He's too erratic and he just can't be their guy that decides every game. So I'll be interested to see how they maneuver away from that over the course of the Spurs series.

I thought they were going to blow out the Spurs, and now it feels like that's going to go seven, and I think they're going to figure out how to make Toronto, Orlando, or Philly, Brooklyn go seven because there's always two that go along. So anyway, that's all I got for you on the basketball front. Can't wait to watch the games this weekend. Rassila and I are coming back Sunday night and

we're going to break down every single thing that happened. Coming up, Rembert and Van first. Quick break and then we're going to talk to them. Let's talk about JCPenney. Specifically, Collection by Michael Strahan available exclusively at JCPenney.

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Visit a store near you to go to JCP or go to jcp.com. Explore Michael's lifestyle content on michaelstrahan.com. And again, if you want to go to JCPenney and check all this out, jcp.com. All right, we're taping this on a Wednesday. Van Lathan is here. What up, what up? He's been here before. He's here again.

Remember Brown, my old Grantland teammate. Hey, bud. Always good to see you. Van Lathan is here what up he's been here before he's here again remember Brown my old Grantland teammate hey bud always good to see you coming off our Pulitzer Prize winning rewatchables podcast about Major League

yeah I'm excited that we won so many awards already I can't believe it I didn't know we could win a Pulitzer for it wow I thought we missed the deadline

but they actually got us in congrats to us so Van's from Louisiana. Baton Rouge, yeah. Vans from Atlanta. I don't know if there's going to be some tension in this. No, I have no beef.

I have no beef with Baton Rouge. But you have beef with any other parts of Louisiana? Saints related things? Yeah, it's all Saints related. Are you a Saints fan? What do you think, dawg? We're it's all Saints related. Oh, wow. Are you a Saints fan? What do you think, dog? Yeah.

Of course. That's fine. We're going to get over this. Okay. That's fine. Cool. This is a fun thing. Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Oh, this is some Falcons bullshit. Yeah. Oh, okay. I don't think he thinks it's bullshit. Right. I don't understand the bullshit part of that sentence. I think, remember that- I mean, the bullshit is that one team has won a Super Bowl and another team hasn't.

Oh, shit. Wow. Such a bad start. Fun ambush of a podcast. Yo, great to meet you, Van. The pass interference penalty, she was celebrating for months and months. One of the greatest moments of my life.

You can still celebrate. Hey, you know what's funny, though? Legal hit. Because of my NFL boycott, I wasn't watching it. And I'm jogging, right? Because in order for me to not watch the games, I have to do something while the games are on or it won't work.

It won't work. So the game is on and I'm running. So the boycott won't work. The boycott will not work if I stay in my house. I physically don't have the strength not to watch the games. So I have to like, so I won't, I won't not watch

if I'm in the crib. So you're just jogging for four hours? I'll jog. Football Sunday. Like I'll jog. Go to the Grove. Go to Griffith Park.

Like all kinds of things, like different little activities and I was jogging and I'm listening to music and my phone starts going crazy. And like, I'm ignoring people, ignoring people. And my dad calls. My dad calls and he goes, listen, I don't give a fuck about your politics and shit like that.

You got to know what the fuck just happened to us. Stop what you're doing. Get somewhere so you can see what just happened to the Saints. The injustice. You have to know. You cannot not know what just happened to the Saints. And so. Like, you have to know, you cannot not know what just happened to the Saints. And so I watched it and it was ridiculous. But you know what?

As a football fan, you shouldn't even be down with that. No, he loved it. Who said I'm a football fan? I'm a Falcons fan. It's the first thing that made it feel good about 28-3. I literally was beating my chest like Denzel.

I loved it. I want more of that. How long is the football boycott? Is this just going to go on indefinitely? You know what's crazy? Is that I've backed myself into a corner now to where I don't see how it's going to end. I'm serious.

I don't see. What was the genesis? The Kaepernick thing? Well, the genesis was the Kaepernick thing, right? But then after the Kaepernick thing, it became about what I thought the league was doing, which was rather than leaning into some of these issues that Colin Kaepernick was talking about, like actively trying to suppress him and like just take away any power of the movement

that he was trying to, the conversation he was trying to start. And once you've learned that about the league, like how did, how does that get undone? Yeah. Like even if they were to sign Colin Kaepernick, Colin Kaepernick, which would be good for him if he's already got like a huge settlement, that wouldn't change anything that I feel like I know about the NFL. I mean,

so I don't know. I really have no, I'm being honest. I don't know how I undo it at this point. I had a boycott every year. Once we go at least three games under 500. Then my boycott gets very, I'm like, this league should be shut down. Until we regroup next year.

Failure making you feel bad about yourself. So what was the turning point? When did you say, that's it, I'm out? When they instituted that rule that was going to penalize everybody for kneeling. When even, I know that they went back on that. Yeah. But even, listen, you can't expect everyone to believe and think and want the same things that you want, right? You can't.

But the only thing you can ask for, to me, is intellectual decency from people. So you have to have enough respect for me to lean into a conversation about certain things, right? I know that it's a business and that the NFL was trying to do its best to sort of mitigate any damage that Colin Kaepernick was doing to their image. I get it. But they just fucking handled it so poorly. And it was such a fuck you guys kind of attitude. You didn't like when Jerry Jones was holding hands with this guy? That didn't warm your heart? No, dog.

It was just such a putrid, cliche, maintain the status quo way that it just really rubbed me the wrong way. But I'll tell you one thing. It's a very small chance that for the rest of my life, I'll never fucking nfl football again i just don't see that happening i always i thought the worst of the nfl the whole time so it really didn't change anything for me yeah i was like i already i already had made the deal with the devil to watch this league that you know was pushing concussions under the rug and all the shit they did it's like all, I still like football. I guess I'm okay with it. I don't know. What do you think, Bram? I got really into the MLS.

Oh, that's true. Atlanta's MLS team. Yeah. Luckily, I think it's just the funniest thing that Atlanta's now a soccer town because... Like a signature soccer town. Yeah yeah because we all have

just like true PTSD and like we like act like try to act like we don't we've never had a football team like yeah

we're a storied soccer town yeah because we finally we won something that is the most confusing sports thing that's I've witnessed this decade was Atlanta becoming

becoming like the Yankees of the MLS yeah because they they run shit and yeah but like there's like 72,000 people going I don't understand it becoming like the Yankees of the MLS. Yeah, because they run shit. Yeah, but there's like 72,000 people going. I don't understand it. Like word? Yeah.

Like actually. Like really? They have 70,000 people at home games. They're like the Liverpool games in downtown Atlanta right now. In Atlanta? And they're going fucking crazy for it. You know, I'll be honest with you though. People underestimate the MLS.

The MLS has incredibly devoted fans in the places where it's popping, man. Yeah. Which is more than, like, 10, 11 cities at this point. Yeah. Like, Seattle. That fan base is ridiculous right there. Yeah, man. I think Toronto has a big one.

Yeah. I forgot the whole list. Cincinnati is pretty good, I think. I think, yeah. LAFC's been good. It was a perfect storm of, like, yes, they were good. So that clearly helps. But it happened at the exact same time as the Falcons blowing the Super Bowl,

building a new stadium, and the Braves moving out of town. Yeah. It was like it all happened at the exact same time. So people were like, ah. And they were selling like season tickets for like 45 bucks. Oh, that'll get you out. So just like everyone I know like has some type

of season ticket situation. So it's just like a fun thing. There's some weird Atlanta sports renaissance going on though because the Trey Young thing and him being like the fourth member of Migos

and all this stuff. It's like, I love all this stuff. and we're going to get Zion. So like, there's a lot of good things happening. If they rig it so the Hawks get Zion,

that becomes the internet's favorite team ever. I always wondered. I will be on Zillow. Does Atlanta... Immediately. Do people in Atlanta really give a fuck about the Hawks? I don't think they've had a lot of reasons to give a fuck. I'm saying because the Hawks have had times where the Hawks have been good.

I remember like Kevin Willis, Mookie Blaylock, Hawks days. There's some electric teams. Hall of Fame. No, but I remember a time when they won a lot. They won a bunch of games. We were a perennial fourth seed. Yeah. Dominique was the most fun at 10 for the Hawks.

But that was 30 plus years ago. Yo, those. You were barely alive. Those two Josh Smith years incredible oh yeah Josh Smith, Joe Johnson then someone told him

that he was a three point shooter and then the franchise fell apart when I met Rim in 2011 was that

had they signed Joe Johnson who a crazy the crazy extension yeah he was in the middle no he didn't he didn't have the extension yet

in 2011 he didn't I think he was about to get it I think was he about to get middle no he didn't have the extension yet in 2011 he didn't? I think he was about to get it all of a sudden he was making like 30 plus million a year Rem was so upset about it he's my least favorite person I cannot

stay I would like I honestly one of like four people I would just like absolutely say it so it's like, I honestly, one of like four people, I would just like absolutely say it. So it's like Vladimir Putin and then it's like Jeff. Oh yeah. I'm not ranking them. Depends on the day.

Right. I'm not ranking them. I'm just putting them in the same list. Yeah. I think Atlanta's had more bad luck than anything. That's why it'd be so much fun if they got Zion.

Oh my God. You're talking about Dominique's the most fun player in the history of the franchise and he peaked in the late 80s. It's just a dope-ass city. It's like a dope-ass city. It's a great city.

They love their athletes and stuff like that. It's just a cool city. It would be dope to see if they could be great in basketball. But it's starting to get a little sad. It reminds me of the way we talk about Dominique. It's like the way the MSG Network still plays Walt Frazier highlights. Yeah. Because like,

that's the last time the Knicks were good. It's like starting to get like, we're going like, shit it all over Patrick Ewing. Well, oh yeah. But like, still like,

it's like, another one who wasn't that much fun to watch. There's like two things to talk about. Yeah. Like a, like 40 years of a franchise. Like, we're like,

like four generations removed from Dominique at this point. It's a long time. Like Michael Jackson was releasing bad when Dominique was in the dunk contest. And now Michael Jackson can't even sell the Neverland Ranch or his estate. Apparently, he can get it now for $30 million. It's a word on the street. They've dropped the price since the documentary. They've dropped it from $100 to $30.

Word on the street. You watch it? I did. I've dropped it from 100 to 30. Word on the street. You watch it? I did. I was super disturbed. Wasn't great. It's hard to watch. Shout out to my man, Aaron Foster. Aaron Foster did a whole podcast about why Michael's innocent.

What? When was that? He released it last week. Shout out to Aaron. Aaron hits me up one day he texts me he goes yo man Michael didn't do it I was

I was like and you were like which one need more info I was like I was like I was like alright

okay well I'm gonna call you and we're gonna have a long form conversation about that he was like you don't need to man I'm gonna do it all on the podcast.

And he spent some time. Were you like, no, go for it. Because listen, there's a counter-argument to the Michael Jackson situation, man. There's a counter-argument there is. It's like Aaron goes

to the FBI and vests a Michael. They couldn't find anything for X amount of years. Yeah, COINTELPRO, the Black Panther. I'm just saying, there is a different side and Aaron really believes that Michael Jackson

never did this. Some inconsistencies in Safechuck's testimony and some things that he said, Aaron has put this together. What was his theory for why he exclusively hung out with nine to 12 year old boys?

That's the thing you can't really explain. Yeah. I mean, that's the part of it that's a little weird. Maybe that'll be on part two. All right.

I just say, my son's 11. Not like a great hang. I love him to death. 11 year old boys, not like unbelievably fun to hang out with. Just wants to do his own thing

play video games not a great conversationalist really likes professional wrestling I love him we're related you do understand

how Michael Jackson I love him we're related Michael Jackson and you are different Michael was a little bit stunted in his growth

and things of that nature there are people that would say Mike was like mentally still a and stuff like that, so that's why he gravitated to the show. I'm not—by the way, don't jump in my shit. This is not a defense of Michael Jackson. I'm just saying. I have a question. So what does Arian Foster get out of, like, defending Michael Jackson? Well, I think that he, well, number one, Arian is, as are a lot of people, like, it's hard to come to terms with, like, losing such, like, a big part of your childhood.

Formative, yeah. Yeah, it's hard. But I really do think, as far as he's concerned, and he speaks for himself a lot better than I can, as far as he's concerned, he really truly does believe this. And he's a guy that delves into things intellectually to a very, very deep degree. I was going to say, he's an intellectually curious guy. Yes.

So if something doesn't add up for him, he's going to dive into it. He goes out with it. Okay. Dive into the thing. You know what's funny? Before I watched leaving neverland i said yo i don't even despite i have to watch it but no matter what comes out i can't be sure that i'm ready to like not fuck with michael jackson anymore i don't know if that's

ever going to happen there is a part of me that maybe michael Michael Jackson is such a big part of my childhood and stuff like this that I'll never have a bad feeling about his music. And after I watch the documentary, listen to those stories, they're all believable. I turned on Michael Jackson to see if there was any sort of response from me. And I would be lying if I said that there was. Let me tell you something that is going on in my life. It's a really hard time to be making a wedding playlist. Look at you. R. Kelly gone.

Michael Jackson gone. I don't know what we're going to do. I don't know what songs are happening at this wedding. Yeah. So Michael Jackson can't be in your wedding? No, it's just something to think about. R. Kelly done. Like, literally.

You can't play him. They'll fucking riot. Like, they'll freak people out the way they'll freak out if they hear him. Can't even play Best of Both Worlds,

Jay-Z, R. Kelly. Nope. It's just nothing. I believe I can fly. Yeah, Jay-Z, unintended casualty. Yeah, but yeah, Mike is

also kind of like a hmm. Van listens. Jackson 5 maybe, but then we stop. Van listens to Michael Jackson when he's boycotting the NFL. This is the thriller. You watch Moonwalker on your phone while you go on a walk.

Never said I was consistent, just said I was dedicated. Never said, I never promised you guys consistency. Just said I'm dedicated. So the wedding playlist has to be like three and a half, four hours? Yeah, I mean. How would you compare it to the Grantland party playlist that you used to help me with? I actually found a Spotify playlist. There's still like a Grantland Spotify channel that I think me and Juliet made.

Some good playlists on there. Juliet has the bombest playlist. She's really good at it. I watched her shit. She had the old school boys to men bumping. Like she, I like,

I fuck with the playlist. She has a talent. There you go. So check that out on Spotify. Speaking of music, we want to talk about Nipsey Hussle. Yeah. I don't know a lot about this subject and didn't know that much about him.

I was stunned by the reaction to his death and then how long it kept going and going and going. And I've been in L.A. Still going. Yeah. I've been in L.A. since November 2002. This was one of the five most impactful local stories I've seen since I've been here. This is up there with fires and

all the normal, Michael Jackson dying. It's going and going and it doesn't seem like it's going to end. It feels like something's changed. Van asked to come on because he wanted to talk about it. And I didn't know enough about it. But I want to hear your perspective first

from being here. And you knew him a little bit too. Yeah. First of all, it's important to say that when you look at Nip as a rapper and as a community leader

and stuff like that, he also was like a man, right? That had a family and had a companion. So when you talk about what he meant to you and stuff like that, it's always a little weird because there are actual children who don't have a dad anymore. There's a beautiful woman, Lauren London, who doesn't have her companion anymore, and my heart goes out to her.

And then there's Sam and his mom, and there's a lot of people who lost someone that's really close to them. So you always want to say, yo, they're you know they're sam and his mom and there's a lot of people who lost someone that's really close to them so you always want to say yo they're dealing with actual real pain and loss yeah you can't as much as he meant to us and inspired us yeah his kids is not gonna hug their dad no more so that's real pain i think what you're seeing and what people have like sort of um sort of uh the the reaction you're seeing is that, and we talked about this a little bit before, is it's actual love. This has to do very little with celebrity.

And normally when a famous person passes away, you start to think about in the ways that like, we even talked about this with some of the people we just brought up, the way that their music made you feel, the way that their art made you feel like this community here in Los Angeles and hip hop community everywhere loved Nip, loved him. And they loved him,

not even for the amazing music that he made because of the guy that he was. He was a man worth respecting and worth loving and worth sort of aspiring to sort of be like. So what were the three reasons that was the case? One is the fact that he almost never talked about himself in a singular way. He spoke about large goals he had for his community and for the people that were around him. You never really heard him go, yo, this is me. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. It's like, this is what we have to do.

This is how we have to move. These are the things that we need to sort of reinvest into. Even where Marathon is, that's in his hood. Like he could have easily, with everything that he had, opened up a store on Melrose or La Brea or any other cool urban apparel places that you go and done that. Nah, he wanted to be

vibrant and sort of grounded in the community he was in. And was investing in a ton of real estate. He bought that whole area, right? Yeah. He had bought that whole area, that whole strip mall was his. And he had a Vector 90 where kids

were going to learn STEM. He was thinking about the future of his community, right? Yeah. Which is still going on. Shout out to Dave Gross and the rest of the guys that are doing that. And, you know, from the real estate to the ownership to just the message of how to come from the situation that he came from, because everyone knows that Nip was a rolling 60, Crip, and how to take that and then make that into something better and to do it with your own people.

To see that extinguished really over what amounts to nothing. I know a lot of people, and myself included, that felt like something changed. Yeah. Like something changed when that happened to where it's like the penalty that was meted out to him for whatever this was, what this robbed us of, we can't continue to lose like this. Yeah. Like we can't continue to lose that much over something that doesn't mean anything. You know, whatever it was. And it's just hard to get your,

to wrap your mind around. Like when I remember when this happened, and once again, not about me, about the people who loved him and who he was affecting, but I was, I remember thinking like for the first time in anything that we've ever reported at TMZ,

like praying God, please don't let this happen. Like, please protect him. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want him to die. And it was,

it was just, it's just hard, man. Hey, Hulu's paying some of the league's best players, a lot of money to do some pretty crazy stuff. Joel changed his nickname from the process to Joel Hulu has live sports and bead.

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It's only $45 a month. Watch your favorite teams. Wow, they got a mmm from you. My barber's got it. It's done wonders for the shop. I got an email from somebody that says when you grunt during the reads, they know it's a really especially good something. Like, if it gets a Kyle grunt

of approval. Watch your favorite teams of the biggest games all season. No cable required. Watch on the go and on all your favorite devices. Live TV plan required. Restrictions apply. Learn more at Hulu.com. I think it's been super interesting to, I feel like I've had more one-on-one or small group conversations about this

than maybe anything in my adult life, just like with other men, other black folk, other black men, just like there's like a's kind of like a sense of almost like helplessness that comes from a moment like this where you're like, this was the person that like he did everything right. Like he did the thing that you're supposed to do. Like you're supposed to, you know, go off and reinvest in your community. You're supposed to like not forget where you came from. You're supposed to go off and reinvest in your community. You're supposed to not forget where you came from.

You're supposed to empower those around you. That's the person that's supposed to live. And so when that person, then just like that is taken from everyone, it's almost like, what do we do next you know i it felt like it was just like a really like i get like just like the a sense it was like a weight on i feel like everyone i talked to for like the week that followed because everyone's just like i mean this happens to net like what do we i mean where do we go from here and it was really you know i felt that or heard that from people as close to people who you know worked with them daily

to people who never met him you know like or just like only uh really got hip to him maybe even afterwards. But it's just like it's the man and it's also what he represented. And I think like what Nipsey was successfully doing is what a lot of people hope comes from their life. It's like, you know, you really figure out how to be authentic. You really figure out how to, you know, be someone that, you know, the people, like the kids from the same place that you grew up in look up to. Like all those things are, I feel like, for me, like, how do I do these things? I think a lot of people saw their hopeful futures in what Nipsey Hussle was doing and so for that

person to then get gunned down, it just it really hit and it's continuing to hit in just such a very real way that I don't really feel like it's just going to disappear.

It seems like the underlying fear with this is that nobody else is going to want to aspire to do the stuff he did because this is, this could be how it is. It's just the opposite. Everyone. I mean, that's a fear, right?

The fear of there's always a fear of, I remember, uh, it's funny when you, when you, when you text me, you said you brought up Boosie, right? Boosie did a, you know, Boosie Badass, are you familiar with him? Yeah. He did a very famous interview where he said he felt like he had to leave Baton Rouge because being in Baton Rouge made him vulnerable to haters in his own city, right?

He said that a long time ago. But I think that whereas it seems that that idea that this death would promote that, that maybe if he had opened up the store on La Brea because he was killed outside of Marathon or something like that, maybe this wouldn't have happened. I think it's the opposite.

I think what we're trying to do now is elevate, heighten, and put the spotlight on people who are like him in their communities all over the place. And people are feeling inspired to be more like that, to be more tethered to your community, to produce more people like in the same vein as him. Now, I'm not from here. Like there are people that are from this community that understand the intricacies and the ins and outs of growing up in that area a lot better than what I could speak on.

And they get what it means for him to have been down here. But I do know a godly, kingly, righteous black man when I see one. And that's what that guy was. Like years ago, I was in Vegas and I was with some people in Vegas and they were talking to me. This is like, maybe like 2017. I had just recently met Nip this past year. And they say, you know who you need to talk to? They're like, you need to talk to Nipsey Hussle. He is into computers. He is into the community. He is into all different areas of science and things like that and really wants black people to, especially people in his community, to be more up on that stuff.

And I think it would be really interesting for you to speak with him. We didn't get a chance to speak then. But think about that had nothing to do with rap. Yeah. Yeah. That had nothing to do with him being a rapper. That had nothing to do with rap. Yeah. Yeah. That had nothing to do with him being a rapper. It had nothing to do with him being like a celebrity. These were people that were saying, yo, there's more to this man and you should lean into it.

I knew him as a rapper then, but I didn't know about some of the other stuff. So I started to look at it. And by that point, that is when my affinity for him really started. When I saw what he was about as a person. And so the outpouring that people have seen, it's about when you talk about Michael Jackson and these other guys, like when they pass away, it's about losing a part of your childhood. This is actual love. Yeah.

And that's why it feels like it's different. And it's one of those things where, you know, I think we live in a moment where, you know, not in a cynical way, but when people are doing good things, they let everyone else know the good things that they're doing. You know, like to kind of promote their good stuff. Like, I feel like every day, like two more things come out about something else that he was doing that was just like very low key. And it wasn't like, you know, I feel like. Actual work. Actual work.

You know, I was I've been thinking about it because, you know, we that resembles like a civil rights leader or just any type of leader, because we are, we've kind of, um, this isn't 60s, you know, it's not the 70s. Like, it's not like, you know, preachers who do speeches and like, it's, it's, it's very, what a leader looks like. It's very different now. And I think that's another reason why this hit so hard because he is a very he was in a very accessible leader like he wasn't it didn't feel like he was up on a pedestal telling everyone how to live he was just like this is the way I think we should live you know like this these are the things that I think will make my community better. It felt very humbled. And like, I'm not an extremely religious person,

but in the aftermath of what happened and like thinking about some of this stuff, it did feel like he did feel, and like a lot of people alluded to this, it did feel very like godly, spiritual, like the way that he maneuvered and operated. And it was so selfless. And it was just also, it was effortless.

It was just part of him. Yeah. It was part of his DNA to be a good dude. Yeah. Do you know how rare that is, especially at the levels that we are talking about when we're talking about performers. It was in, it was a part of him to just be a good person. Yeah.

And so, like, you feel that a little differently. And I think one thing that is happening, once again, it's, I'm glad that the culture is inspired. I'm glad that people are inspired. But what hits me, like, Game even posted this morning. Like, Game just woke up,

posted a picture of Nipsey and is just talking about it. What hits me is that he's actually gone. You know what I mean? And like, so we can be inspired and we can do all of these things in his name,

but it just seems like such a gutting sort of reality. But I will say that we're starting to recognize that there are more people like this than we thought that there were. And there's Nipsey's in every city.

In every single community. Every single community. There's more people like, and we have to, in order to take control of our situation, make sure that we give those people the proper spotlight, the proper ammunition, the proper adulation they need to be relevant now so that they can have the resources they need to change these communities. And there are guys everywhere, guys and ladies everywhere doing this work. And I think that it's a reminder that we just can't wait until something unfortunate happens to give all these roses out. We have to do it now.

It seems like that's one way athletes could really help. Like, Westbrook and LeBron, too, really raised awareness to what happened with Nipsey nationally. Well, yeah. I mean, I think when people like that, when people see guys, and that's another thing. I've had conversations with people at work about like, yo, I didn't realize he was this important.

He's important to people who are important to you. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? So when you see how deep Westbrook feels about it or LeBron feels about it, Jay-Z, Beyonce, people like that, the people that you're probably a little bit more familiar with than you might've been with Nip. And this is not to say that Nip wasn't coming. He had just been nominated for the Grammy,

for a Grammy. I thought he had the best rap album of, of last year. He was steeped in, he was going to be that next big, huge West Coast rap star. I know for sure. He already was, and he was even going to get bigger. But when you see how much those people care, I think a lot of people who maybe were less familiar with him, that kind of made them kind of look into what it was that he was doing. Yeah. Unfortunately, unfortunately, that's the culture we have in 2019 is the influencers determine sometimes people finding out about stuff or learning more about stuff. And I thought in this case it was used for good. Yeah, I mean, it also is a reminder that, I mean,

I think it's something, Van, clearly you know, but the kind of overlapping Venn diagram of, I think, black celebrity, it's so between the sports world, entertainment world, like these people of like, you know, a similar age, like interact with each other. Like they like, like people know each other. It's not just like, like, oh, that was like someone I listened to. Like people from different like worlds of celebrity, like truly do lean on each other and like you really could see it wasn't just like only rappers like like that Westbrook

thing like tore me apart like that was like one of the great sports things I've ever seen you know Barack Obama sent a letter to the yeah like this was like this is shout out to Karen Silver like Barack Obama sent a letter to the yeah like like this was like this is shout out to karen civil like barack obama said the letter like this was this was this was this was not um like it's it's it's very interesting to think about like how you want to be remembered like you know like thinking in the future but like to actually have had that type of impact and have it be connected to your artistry uh because i i don't want to i like the thing is like it wasn't like his like the stuff he rapped about also reflected without a doubt he did in real life it wasn't like like he had these two different worlds like you listen to victory lap and I'm ready to go climb a mountain.

It's extremely pro yourself, pro your community, pro everything. So yeah, I mean, I just really... It's interesting how you think like 50 years ago when Ali couldn't fight and they

had that big press conference when Russell and Jim Brown and Kareem, who was then Luau Cinder, and they all came and came out to support him. And it was this big moment. There's like an iconic photo from it. But it was these sports figures coming together. It never really happened before.

And now you think 50 years later, it wouldn't just happen with sports now. It's like sports, the sports community, the music community are so intertwined now. And I think that's something that's happened the last, I don't know, 15 years probably. And it started with a lot of hip hop artists and rappers dropping athletes' names in songs. And then they started hanging out. And then it was like the culmination was the Westbrook 2020 yeah like you swear that made sense it would have made no sense 20 years ago it'd been weird yeah but now it's like

it just feels like they're all kind of aligned they all know each other well also yeah everyone knows each other everyone's moving in sort of the same circles everybody wants the same things. Everybody wants the same things. Everyone wants the same things. I think one thing about social media that has changed our perception of celebrity, at least my perception and people around me that I know, is that when you know more of people, you ask more of them too. Yeah.

Right? So it's like for a lot of us now, we love the music that people are putting out. We love what they're doing on the football field, on the basketball court, the two or three black guys that play Major League Baseball. We love all of that stuff. Shout out to them. Shout out to them.

We love all of that stuff. Shout out to them. Shout out to them. Like, we love all of that stuff that they're doing, but we also want to see people that have been empowered in this way have a very, very strong foothold in these communities that they come from. And these guys, to be honest with you, are leading by example. LeBron James is leading by example. Damian Lillard is leading by example. Kevin Durant is leading by example with what they're doing. And they understand the responsibility that they have.

And by and large, I'm inspired by the way a lot of them are living up to it. And really, they're some of the people that we should be talking about as well when we talk about these conversations. And shouldn't it be all about who's famous and who can do the most? Because there are a lot of people out there that are scrambling together donations to do things like this. And they need us more. And we should be with them more.

But these guys, they're like-minded. Nip was probably like-minded with Rez Brooke and LeBron and all of these guys. I know he was with LeBron. So they talk about strategies to help and then they go out and they execute. Jalen was the first person who I was friends with

who was doing stuff like this. Yeah, up in Michigan. In a really significant way that, and he didn't make a big deal out of it, but, you know, he started this school in Michigan and, uh, and really puts a ton of time and energy into it. And it's really important to him. It's important to him for all these different reasons.

It's not a vanity project. No, it's not at all. And it seems like, uh, that seems to be a trend, for lack of a better word, that people using their money and influence to try to make a difference, even if it's in one community. But if it turns out to be 30 communities, stuff's happening. It seems like, I feel like in that sense, we're in a better place. I completely agree. I think it's like, the reality is that we know too much now to like, like, like lean on like lack of knowledge or ignorance. Like, it's just like, I think it's a lot of like what you were saying, Van, about like social media, just in terms of, you know, the connections that people have.

But it's almost like, wait, you're, we're almost at a point now. It's like, wait, you money you're not gonna help where you came from like it's like it's it's it's gotten to a point where that almost seems um like an absurd thing you know and i think that's that's only elevated i think for minorities i think there's just a there's a deeper sense of, you know, like the narrative of like making it out to then reinvest back is like part of the minority black, like American dream story. You know, like you're, that's like almost what you're supposed to do. Like the goal is to make something of yourself and like, you're supposed to turn back around and like make sure that you're pulling up other people. And like, you know, there's, you know, that doesn't always go perfectly, you know?

Like there's lots of people who I feel like can't, you know, like maybe should take a couple steps away from home because it's not the most productive place for them. But like, I really... Or in Kanye's case, Earth. Try another planet.

Oh my God. But, and you know, also, I think that we realize that there are opportunities.

There are multiple opportunities in these communities, right? You can have a business in the community like where I'm from in South Baton Rouge. You can have businesses down there that those communities will support and that in turn will change the economic situation there.

You can make money with your people in your community. You can be viable. You can change political and economic systems there, and it can work for everyone. It's not like the money is any greener outside of these places. You can own real estate. You can do all of these things. And part of these things, part of cleaning up communities all over America, no matter what the people look like, is investing in them economically

to the point to where there's actually money that's coming out of these places, where the businesses are safe, where the businesses are being frequented, and where people feel good about sort of supporting one another. And I think there's so much money being made by these athletes now,

so much money being made by these rappers, more than ever before. It's even. It's smart financially to go back in there and invest into people who are so loyal to you, who are so committed to you. When I go to my barbershop, all we do is argue about these guys. They don't ever argue about us, I promise. You know what I'm saying? So we're devoted to these guys. And so for them to invest a little bit, I think it makes sense even financially it does.

You've been covering celebrities, obviously, at TMZ for, what, this whole decade, most of this decade? Yeah, since 2011, 2010. I think one of the things that's – so we're heading into the first, I guess, 20% of this decade or century is going to be up soon, 21st century. Wow. I have not thought about that.

Whoa. That's crazy. Almost one-fifth of the way through. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. It's astonishing to me how the celebrity structure is now, how big of a real estate of that piece athletes,

rappers, hip hop artists have in that's in the hierarchy of that structure. Now that you think about, I don't know. So SNL has been around since 1975, right? And you think about the stuff, SNL, the people they would parody on the show and that it was predominantly white. They didn't even need it. They didn't even have black cast members some years cause just wasn't what they did.

They, but now it's like, it seems like the show's not black enough because most of the people everybody cares about are black celebrities and athletes. And it's like, it's not like Sinatra and the Rat Pack from Backland or the Brady Bunch or all of these people who have the most influence now for the most part are black yeah i think we need i think i think we have a tremendous amount of

social um influence in that way and the the cool social media plays into it too right i think i think the cool factor in america has always at point, largely been dictated by what goes on in the black community. Agreed. But what I will say is that I think those guys now, they want a different sort of influence. Like, there's influence in being able to make you buy sneakers. LeBron is putting your kids in college. Right. Yeah.

He's helping their parents get GDs, right? He's feeding them. But that's changed in the last 15 years. Without a doubt. It's a different type of legacy building. Yeah, that's very true. It's like- The legacy in the 90s was like,

I wanted to make a lot of money and be really famous. And that's what a lot of the music was about. But if you think about it, it makes sense that that's evolved because we live, like the way it goes now is like, like everyone can kind of be famous. Yeah.

A little bit. So it's like, how do we separate? Like, how do we further separate ourselves? And Becky's daughter could have 1.4 billion. Yeah. It's like,

it all begins to just be like, okay, so like, what do I want? Just to be the most famous? It's like, no begins to just be like, okay, so like what do I want? Just to be the most famous? It's like, no, I need another. We have to add another lane when it comes to my legacy. There's also, you know, I don't know if competitiveness is the right word,

but these guys all measure up to each other and they measure. They're looking at who their peers are, who their rivals are, stuff like that. And if certain people are doing good things it kind of puts the spotlight on you that you're not doing good things and that you should do good things and it kind of becomes this snowball i think that's i think that's what's called uh like like a positive trend like it's a good thing yeah it's a it's a it's definitely a good thing the question like the when you, because we've done this with other things. We do this with chains and belts. And all of Americans do chains, belts, and watches.

What you have, the question is now, not what do you have, but what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? I'm doing this. What are you doing? And not everyone can do the I Promise School because not everyone can be that kind of guy. Not everyone can do the $300 million or $50 million deal that Durant's doing back in his home. But everybody can do something. That's just not about famous people.

Everyone can do something, right? Yeah. Yeah. I also think it's just thinking about what drives people right now. I think we definitely live in a world where people want to be able to like exist in as many circles as possible work yeah you know i just like i think back to like like the mid the middle of this decade like going to south by southwest and like you know seeing like seeing athletes hang out with like tech dudes and like everyone wants to be like a as

many hyphenates as possible and i feel like that's even more important than being the most famous in one thing it's like oh i do this i do this i do this like the problem is sometimes people just do too much stuff and they don't do anything that well but i do think that that is one of the things that people are trying to – and they're like legacy building that everyone kind of does because anyone can legacy build at this point. It's like trying to excel at as many different things and then rub shoulders with as many different types of people

and not just like, oh, I'm one of the five most important people in this one thing. Well, basketball is a good... You look at the last 40 years of basketball, right? Jordan was the first athlete to really look at basketball as a way for him to also make money

doing a couple other things. And that went through the 80s. The Magic. In the beginning of the 90s, there was this SI cover, I think. It was called Magic Inc. Before the HIV thing came out. And it was like, I want to be a businessman after I finish playing basketball.

People are like, whoa, that's, wow, really? First time I ever heard anyone even talk like that. So then you go through, you're right. We go through the 90s and athletes are mostly like,

I just want to make a lot of money. But I don't have another plan other than that, I just want to make a lot of money. But I don't have another plan other than that. I just want to be famous, make money. And now the LeBron generation has shifted the paradigm in a lot of different ways. Now the guys coming in the league, even before they become super famous and successful, are like, what's my plan? Should I have a content company? How do I stay relevant basically forever? Yeah.

Like that's the thing. Like it's, it's almost like 15 years ago, people realize that careers ended, like your, your athletic career ended. Like, that's why you get dudes coming in the league.

And when they're like out of the playoffs, they're already doing like, you know, commentating, you know, like they're already planning for like, that's like their second wave. Even before they even.

Yeah, like we have Vince Carter right now who knows he's going to retire. He does a great podcast for us. He knows he wants to do TV. Great podcast. He's had this planned out for three, four, five years. And I think it's interesting because I don't think people really thought that way. I would say LeBron's generation was the first kind of... Remember that Carmelo Anthony,

he used to be in the magazine feature that we made fun of where he had the office in Brooklyn, but it was empty. He's like, I'm going to be a mogul, but he wasn't saying anything. And we were like, oh, this is where it goes bad where somebody's like, I want to be a mogul, but I have no point at all. But this all has to do with Jordan, if you ask me.

Well, he's the George Washington of this. Jordan, the interest in Michael Jordan, it never went away. The brand never, it never faltered, right? It never went away. And so I think a lot of these guys who are fruit off that tree, they look around and they go, yo, how am I going to keep people interested in me until I'm 50 wearing oversized jeans

in Vegas playing golf? You know what I mean? Like, how am I going to keep these same people? You guys need to do a whole podcast on these jeans. We don't talk enough about Jordan. Oh, the one with the mayonnaise? I don't, yeah. It's like, Jordan in these,

what's going on, Mike? You know what I mean? Like, I don't understand why. It's like, Jordan, he's, what's going on, Mike? You know what I mean? Like, I don't understand why he dresses like that. Like, is there a rifle? Yeah. What's the deal? Remember that weird mustache

she grew that people were calling the Hitler mustache? What the hell was going on for the Hayes commercial? Like, Mike, relax. I think it also, like, I do think,

like, all roads lead back to Mike, but sitting here, I'm like, also, like, a lot of roads lead back to Shaq sitting here I'm like also a lot of roads lead back to Shaq yeah he's another good one Shaq's more popular now

than he ever was when he played it's amazing he's in 40 commercials it's amazing Shaq is going to save Papa John's and I love

that was a brilliant move by them Shaq is going to save Papa John's Papa John's was the racist pizza it was it happened at the John's. Papa John's was the racist pizza. It happened at the same time that Domino's got good? I was like, yo, y'all are...

Right, yeah. I'm the mag of pepperoni. Exactly, right? And Papa John's thought to themselves, listen, we've been declining five quarters in a row. Like, the people are burning Papa John's pizza boxes. Like, well, what can we do and they which is wild right like it's like like what can we do they thought who can we get we save us it's a list of like shack jay-z right it's like four people and then that commercial for the

general comes on and they're like yeah we need shack it's like how racist can the piece of be if shack said it's cool right you know i mean it's I'm and I mean that I'm I'm not even saying I know he takes no shit for it no shit because people love Shaq in my mind I'm like still racist right no no it's no no it's still racist right I still don't eat Papa John's he's gonna be pissed off when he hears this I still don't eat I still don't eat Papa John's right but it did make me go man what are they doing over there Papa John's, right? But it did make me go, man, what are they doing over there at Papa John's, man? Are they really making an effort? Like, are they really? Because if they're really trying.

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which was I think like nine years ago. Shout out Andre Rison, my king. And this was an epidemic, 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, of people making money and blowing it. And the league didn't educate them. They had bad people around them. They made all the same mistakes over and over again. And now I think the last, and I think that documentary helped,

but just the education and the generations and people learning from the past. These guys actually save their money now. And you have people making a lot of money and not squandering it. So all of that money. Marshawn Lynch, that's the first name that jumped into my mind.

He didn't touch his money. When you think about fiscal- Rob Gronkowski didn't touch his money. Marshawn Lynch, like shout out to Lynch, man. Marshawn Lynch, like a guy who America would paint the picture as a guy who would blow his money.

By the way, another guy who's very active in his community. Marshawn has a very Nipsey-esque type of story. Very, like, very active. And also beloved by a whole bunch of people. Yeah. But doesn't promote it. And bucks every stereotype you actually think. Right.

And when I heard that, that warmed my heart. That this man, he's got his eye on his financial future and is being very smart and responsible with it. But that could be over the next 10, 15 years, there could be a lot of people doing good who actually have the money to do some good. Without a doubt. Versus where we were in 1997. I'll be honest with you. And that's another thing that's happening, at least from what I see in the black community, I think for a long time, there was a sense that the government should be doing more in these neighborhoods. And I think that they absolutely

should. I think that there are a lot of things that were created systemically in these places that there should be higher ups that are dedicated to trying to solve. But I think that there's also been an awakening in the last 10, 15 years that really we're at a point in our community where if we lean on each other and invest into each other, we're really all we need to fix some of the issues that are going on. But Killer Mike's always talking about it.

Always, always. We're really all we need to fix some of these things. And what we have to do is have a sense of accountability and a sense of partnership. And if we have that, we really can move things forward. I think these,

I think like, not just cause we talk about like athletes, think about everything that, that Hove is doing, that Jay is doing, that Jay Z is doing and all different aspects. These guys are, they're leading by example and that's inspiring to see.

Yeah. What do we do about Kanye? Kanye, did we give up? It's over? I'm not going, you know, okay, this is, I need to talk about this.

I'm glad I brought it up. Thank you. I'm just like so not like pleased with everyone hopping back on his bandwagon because of these pseudo-gospel concerts he does in the desert.

Literally, I'm just like, if there's one thing that's ever bailed out anyone, it's a black choir. A black choir will make any situation better. So Trump should more black choirs for Trump? It will happen in the next two months.

I promise. I'll be I'll be honest with you I'd be surprised if you can't find video right now of Trump with a black choir behind him

I bet it exists I bet that because some of the players I bet that I bet that those black I bet he's gonna he's gonna lean on because he leans on

the black pastors by the way there's a whole black pastors for Trump that are just bought off so when the report comes out the choir is gonna be locked up and ready to go

oh my god yeah but no I cause I was considering So when the report comes out, the choir is going to be locked up and ready to go. Oh, my God. Yeah. But no, I, because I was considering going. To a Sunday service? To Coachella. Oh. The Sunday where he's doing a Easter morning, like, choir service. And people acting like this is, I was like, just go to a church.

Yeah. Go to a black church. Yeah. Like, it's watching. people acting like this is, I was like, just go to a church. Go to a black church. It's watching, and I'm not someone that's like, oh, I'm going to hold a grudge on someone forever, blah, blah, blah.

But it just like, it literally was like, oh, wow. It's not a good thing if Kanye knows all he has to do is bring out a choir and then everyone be like,

yo, that's my guy. To me, it's like, Ye did so much to make the culture love him, man. He did. When you go back and listen to old Kanye stuff, every single song. It kills me. It's so, like, every single song is speaking directly to you. The music is fantastic, of course.

But every single song is speaking about things that we're intimately acquainted with, things that are on top of our heads. Even just conceptually, he did so much to make us love him, but then he did a whole hell of a lot to make us not want to fuck with him anymore either. To me, it's almost at

a point like this, it's where I just throw my hands up. I don't wish ill on Kanye West, but I've lost the enthusiasm. It's football. It's the NFL. It's another boycott. It's just boycotting things. It's not like an active

hate or like, I'm just like, I can't I can't dedicate I have dedicated so much brain space and like time writing and thinking about Kanye. Like, so much. It's like having a crazy cousin that you just can't get rid of. You know what's crazy about that?

It is like that. And you know why? Why it's like that is because you have that crazy cousin, right? And you have this problematic, kind of complicated relationship with him. But also, when you see him doing well, you're happy about it. Yeah. And that's the thing that fluxes you. Like, when the first video of Kanye with the choir came on, it was like, ayo, ayo.

I was like, oh, shit. I was like, look at Ye. Look at Ye. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. What am I doing? You know what I'm saying? I was like, oh, my God. Like, when you see Kanye happy and smiling and doing well,

I kind of like, yeah. It's happening to me 10 seconds after what I just said. I'm like literally, I'm literally like, God, I hope Kanye's fine. I hope he's having a good day. I don't understand. We've made so many strides with the mental health thing in the last couple of years. And this is somebody who clearly has major mental health problems,

but people are still mad at him. So that's where... Don't get me started, man. For some reason, we, and we includes everyone, even including me, treated a man who was clearly crying out for help different than we've

treated everyone else who's been in that same place. Yeah, so why was that? I don't know. I'm still in on Kanye. Yeah. Yeah, again, I'm not out on Crazy Cousins, so, you know,

but it's like we, you, I think a lot of people. I just think the dude is like really damaged. And I do, I do feel like some of the stuff

that was happening was like cry out for help stuff. And, I don't know. People just seem to hold him to a much higher standard. I don't defend some of the stuff he did, but it just seems like the acts of somebody. I get it. I just think I think I will say this, though, from talking to people who know you and talking to people around him directly to deal with him.

Right. and talking to people around him directly that deal with him, right? I think that he, more than anything, it's possible that Kanye West did not even realize how famous he was. And what I mean by that is it's possible he didn't realize how deeply we were actually going to be hurt by some of the things that he did because he didn't understand how much his words meant to us and to other people. And I think that people had to us and to other people.

And I think that people had to actually convince him of that. And I think that they have. And I think that despite, I think that he's going to move a little bit differently in terms of the way he's perceived by the hip-hop community, by the community at large in the future. I think that he finally understood it. I had GLC on the podcast when Kanye's collaboration was going way back. He said, yo, I told Kanye we had to get rid of all the hats. He said he got rid of all the hats. I'm like, now, listen, you're going to say that

and this motherfucker is going to be in a hat in two weeks. You know what I'm saying? We put that out and you haven't really seen them do it here's the thing America loves comebacks we just saw we just saw

with Eldrick Woods what a people people just loved it and he's back and he's wearing the same red shirt again and he's hitting long drives

everybody's in I'm not fucking with it what do you mean I'm not fucking I texted you about it I'm not I don't care I don't care about Tiger Woods man

it's another boycott yo Tiger Woods yeah I want to know what you're doing yeah what you are doing my point is shout out to Tiger Woods

Tiger Woods has never gave a fuck about black people man he's never given he's never given a fuck with everything that Tiger Woods Tiger Woods

is the polar opposite of all the guys so he's Jordan I gotta do something with the Jordan Brando with everything that Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods is the polar opposite of all the guys So he's Jordan. Hey, I got to do something with the Jordan Browns. I got to do something with the Jordan Browns. Don't fuck up the money.

Check curse first. Right, yeah, right. But, you know, whatever, man. Shout out to, shout out to Tiger. Yo, Tiger did that. It was so tight. I, man. Shout out to... Yo, Tiger did that. It was so tight.

I'm sorry. Shout out to Tiger Woods. I loved it. It was so nice to have him back. It was one of my happiest sports moments in a long time. And I don't care that... I don't want to see Tiger Woods not win for the... I don't want to see Tiger Woods with everything that we thought he was going to accomplish

and what we knew he was going to be in golf. I don't want to see him not achieve that. But I just also want to see Tiger Woods with everything that we thought he was going to accomplish and what we knew he was going to be in golf. I don't want to see him not achieve that. I just like when somebody hits rock bottom and comes out of it. We all do. And learns from it and makes some adjustments and comes back and comes within 80, 90% of what they used to be. Shout out to him. I really did like the interaction he had with his kids.

It was like the first time Tiger seemed like a human being. I was like, oh, my God. He knows his kids. That's awesome. I was tearing up watching everything after the final putt. And I was like, okay. I was thinking of what my son would have been capable of in the exact same moment and how much TV time he would have tried to grab Kyle.

What do you think? Oh, totally. First of all, he would have put a lot more thought into it. His outfit would have been really tight. Curated. Sneakers up. He just would have been like, I'm going to be on TV. This is important.

And then he would have been right in front of me the whole time in the camera. Straight up sports question. Is Nicholas in trouble now? Is now Tiger, is he back? Nicholas is so pissed. He's like, I thought I buried this guy. He's like,

I thought this was done. Because he had the party. Think about the stages that Nicholas went through. He went from thinking, maybe he had a shot to, I'm fucked, in like the mid 2000s.

Yeah, I'm done. I'm done. To thinking, wait a second. I might be out of this. I might be out of this. I might be out of this to now really having to be like back thinking,

no. He's got to sweat it out. Nicholas definitely leaked that David Boreanaz story. He was like, yo, I got to get this fucking guy out of here. He got his sons together.

He's like, all right, Project Tiger. Yeah. We got to disparage this guy. It's going to be fun next couple of years. How far is he away? What is that?

Five. Is five away? No. That was 15, right? He's three away from tying him. Yeah, right. From tying him. He's one Masters away.

But he also, he could be the, if he wins a major next decade, he'd be the first guy that everyone majors in four decades, which has never happened. And I don't know. I'm glad he's back. Here's the thing. I know, I agree with you that black people are not a huge priority to Tiger. But I do love that he does still piss off racists, I think.

Some racists, even though. That's something to be. So I'm just like, that's good. But then also, it also kills me because he golfs with Trump. Yeah. What's funny is I think the Asian community takes it more personally than the black community.

What do you mean? Because his mom is Thai. I know, but like takes what personally though? Just that he kind of is gravitated toward the black side versus the Asian side. That's an American thing.

I mean, that's just because we're louder. That's an American thing. Or you're like, wait, what? Like, we, you know, like, Tiger won the Masters, and literally me and my homeboys went to LSU's golf course the next day, like, yo, we want to play golf. Like, yo, where do we do?

Yeah, I need three clubs. That's all. I need three clubs. Like, we want to play golf. And we're like, what are your putters? Yeah, like, so, I don't know. It affected us a great deal. three clubs that's all we want to play golf and we're like wood and iron and putter yeah I don't know it affected us

a great deal what would be how what just let's leave on this note what is Kanye's 2019 masters

what could that be what does that look like oh god um god I mean it would have to be some high profile platform

It would not be music If he like somehow like took a meeting with Trump and then just like televised like cursed him out or something like denounced Trump in front of Trump I feel like somehow Kanye could be the one to take down Trump.

Wow. That seems just like, like at this point, what hasn't he done? So he puts a little camera on his tie. Yeah. And tapes Trump saying all this stuff. If Kanye gets Trump impeached. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what he's done.

I definitely think high level espionage would be. That's all it can be. That would definitely work. You know what I think would be something? I think that if Kanye and Jay came back together, all would be forgiven. Wow. I think if Kanye and Jay came back together...

Like Watch the Throne 2020? Watch the Throne 2. I think that there are still some people, with everything that Jay is doing, there's still some people that ask themselves, all right, even if you're cool on Ye and you're good with Ye, why don't they seem to be as close as what they were?

What is the Knowles-Carter-Kent thinking in their head about Kanye West that's sort of stopping them from being as tethered as what they used to be. I think a lot of people are looking at... By the way, J has come out and said, don't do that. Don't Michael and Prince me and Ye.

Don't try to separate us. Don't do that. But we still haven't seen, to me, those guys be the same way that they were. And if Watch the Throne 2 came out, which would be fantastic because the first was- I have the title. Remarkable.

Game of Throne. I like it. It's not bad. Part of it's not bad because it's your podcast, but yeah. Game of Throne. They can't just call it Watch the Throne again. Or call it Throne 2020 something like that

Throne 2020 I did not think that we were gonna get Bill to A&R a hip hop album while we were here doing the podcast who can't everyone can

just Throne what would they call it this is a working title it's fine it would probably be just Watch the Throne 2 I think so I don't like Watch the Throne 2 This is a working title. It's fine. It would probably be just Watch the Throne 2. I think so. Yeah.

I don't like Watch the Throne 2. I think that would be Watch the Throne 2. Just Throne. Just Throne. Well, is it on Spotify and everything? Isn't that album, like the album artists, like the Thrones? The Throne is the name of their group. Yeah, the Throne. Isn't the move to add a third person you blow it out it's like when the rock joined fast five oh wow that would

be crazy you had like kendrick yeah honestly the the way kanye everything is fine is if somehow he does something with beyonce like that's the actual answer. Like, because I do feel like part of the reason, I've always had this theory, like, part of the reason that Kanye and Jay are kind of, you know, It's the wives not getting along.

It's like, I just feel like Beyonce and Beyonce's mom, the whole Knowles family is just like, I don't want my grandkids around their grandkids. Yeah, they're not fucking with the Kardashians.

Yeah, I just just I really feel like we're gonna keep this it's a good move and I think it's shout out to Tina Knowles I think I think it makes sense what if there was an album

how about this one here we go Four Kings and it was and and you add Drake and you do the four of them and they put out an album

so Kendrick and Drake yeah so then Kendrick Drake Ye and yeah Bill obviously that would be fucking spectacular if that were to get what if it was eight throws and they put out an album. So Kendrick and Drake. Yeah. So then Kendrick, Drake, Ye, and yeah, Bill, obviously that would be fucking spectacular

if that were to get- What if it was 8th Rhodes? Yeah, what if it was- What if you just- With that trend on Twitter. Right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Obviously if that happened-

Old Town Road. Right. Kanye remix. Yeah. No, I think also another interesting wrinkle is like Kanye and Taylor Swift

are kind of both like recluses right now. She's doing, she's hinting that something's coming. Yeah. What if it's an album with Kanye?

That would be wild. An album, Taylor, Kanye album. Yeah. A country album. Yeah. Because I mean, shout out to Lil Nas X.

I mean, now we're going to see more rappers in the country than ever before. It's such a good song. I'm telling you, it is. I'm telling you, man. Who's the next big rapper? You ever heard of Old Town Road? That country song. Isn't that the one? What did we do? Yeah, it's Lil Nas X.

That's the guy that did that. He can replace Drake on my Rushmore. On Four Kings? Yeah. All right. I'll talk to my people as I put it together. The Four Kings concert. Presented by the Ringer.

Right, yeah. Ringer Records, baby. Ringer Records, baby. Bad news. We couldn't get Drake. Ringer Records. Hey, just Think about the pitch Do you think this would work

What if we were able to get Jay-Z Kanye West Drake Kendrick Lamar A&R by Bill Simmons All on the same Presented by the Ringer

Do you think people Will be into that Like yeah They will fuck with that Bill Hashtag four kings Hashtag four kings man Do you think they'd be into that You think they would be into that

Yeah they will fuck with that That's how we save Kanye. This is it. Four Kings. We came up with it. There it is. I'm excited. Van, Rem, thank you.

Thank you. What do you want to promote, Van? Anything? Red Pill Podcast, baby. Every week. I want to come on. Yeah. I would love to have you on the Red Pill Podcast.

We just met. Now you know each other. Yeah, we do. Thanks for coming on. Of course. All right. Thanks to DAZN. Don't forget to watch their Whip Around Baseball show.

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going up later I guess on Friday afternoon and then Ryan Russell and I are coming back on Sunday late night Kyle knows now

we feed him yeah he has like would you have a Red Bull or a Starbucks double shot or something Pete's you gave me the Pete's.

Pete's. I gave you a Pete's. I'm going to show up early next time if you let me. Pete's. He's going to show up earlier. We'll be putting that up late night and then we'll do it all again. Go Celtics. Enjoy the weekend.

We'll be back on Sunday night. I don't have a few years with him on the wayside on the wayside never I don't have a few years