The Bill Simmons Podcast - Dave Roberts on Dodgers Regular-Season Dominance and Mallory Rubin on Giancarlo Stanton's Trade Value (Ep. 248)

Episode Date: August 17, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Los Angeles Dodgers manager Dave Roberts to discuss his famous steal against the Yankees (5:00), the depth on the Dodgers this season (11:00), the sense of urgency to win a World Series in L.A. (17:00), the influence of analytics in baseball (23:00), the conundrum of balancing rest with chasing history in the regular season (30:00), Yu Darvish's arrival (40:00), and the best advice he's gotten from Magic Johnson (44:00). Then, The Ringer's Mallory Rubin joins to discuss the best-case trade scenarios for Giancarlo Stanton (57:40). Finally, Bill's dad hops on the line to pitch his best Stanton trades (1:14:00) and give his thoughts on 'Game of Thrones' (1:21:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And if you haven't listened to that, it's really good, really thoughtful. Some of his best work. All right. So we taped this interview with Dave Roberts on Wednesday afternoon in LA. And like seven hours later, the Dodgers had yet another come from behind win. It is unbelievable. Now there are 51 games over 500. I think there were only 50 when we taped this, but here it is. Dave Roberts, Mallory Rubin, my two favorite managers in baseball coming up right now. but first, Pearl Jam. Taping this on a Wednesday, Dave Roberts is here.

People know him as the manager of one of the hottest baseball teams of all time. You're still the guy who changed Red Sox history for me. But now you don't get that as much because you have this juggernaut you're managing. I don't get that as much, but it certainly happens on a daily occurrence where I get thanked and people bring up that stolen base, obviously, and that 04 team. So it's something that initially it got a little tiresome hearing it early on. But I think that then shortly thereafter, I really embraced it and just realized how special it was to Red Sox nations and all of New England. I think I had you on a pod a few years ago and we talked about it, but we're running it back really quickly because you almost got picked off.

Yes, that was a close one. Because Rivera, who's one of the great athletes in the history of the pitcher position, and he had that nasty move and almost get you, but you got back. And then you took the exact same lead the next time. You're just waiting and you're watching him. Just waiting. Posada had good throws. A little to the left of the bag. But it was a nice catch.

And you beat it by a split second. And history changes. The Red Sox have three World Series. That was it. That was the moment. It was. And I think that as a fan that we both are and many are. And you look for deciding moments and pivotal moments and turning points and things like that.

And obviously that moment right there could have went another way with that. It would have been very anticlimactic for me to get picked off right there in that situation. So fortunately I wasn't, but there was like the whole Maury Wills, who ironically is a great friend of mine. Now I'm obviously with the Dodgers and when I played for the Dodgers, kind of really instilling that confidence in me as a base dealer to get that maximum lead. And as it played out, I needed every bit of that lead. And what's amazing about it is not only is it the most famous steal of all time, I don't even know what number two is. I mean,

I guess it would be maybe Jackie stealing home in the world series. I think that's probably, you know, people like to debate those two stolen bases. So obviously to be in any company with Jackie is ridiculous. Yeah. So, well,

cause that had the famous photo of Barrett just going crazy. Going crazy. Cause he thought he got it. Stealing home. Right. Right. I would say. But it's weird there haven't been more famous steals.

Yeah. I think this is something that happens all the time. You think about that. Right. And I do say that with Theo and Jed Horry and the Red Sox kind of putting that ball club together and trying to account for everything in the postseason for that 0-4 team where you look at what the Royals did with Dyson and just having a guy on your roster that potentially could steal a base and you're expecting close ball games. So to steal a base without giving up and out and against closers like the Mariano

Reverse that you talked about, we have a guy in Kenley Jansen where, you know, to get up, to get multiple hits together, those are hard to come by. So to be able to steal a base and to maybe score a run without sacrificing a sacrifice bun or something like that is probably a better chance. And that's what we did. Did you feel like an alien that you peaked during this crazy, now it's called the steroid era kind of your brand of baseball was not the typical baseball being played from 98 to

04 sort of sort of you know because of the guys that I was competing with and against they're just absolute monsters and beasts and so my little small ball bunning seeing six pitches in and that bat, stealing a measly base. You know, sometimes when you get guys bashing the baseball out of the ballpark, it gets overlooked. But it's kind of, you know, there's the home runs are up, but I still believe that stealing a base at an efficient clip still has a lot of value in winning baseball games.

There's a nice blend of it now. I mean, there's that, and a lot of people have written about this. It seems more homer strikeout focused than ever. I can't believe how many pitchers can just come in and throw in the mid-90s and just whiff guys. I don't ever remember seeing anything like that. And the stats back that up. And the power that guys have. Like Devers, who's my new favorite person in my life.

Devers is like- 20 years old. He came in right away, the season slipping away, and he's like a prodigy. Sure. And now he's like, I mean, I have my two kids. Obviously, Devers, I feel like is now my third kid. Right. I'm just as protective of him.

Right. But he takes Chapman, opposite field, 102.8. 102.8, left on left, Yankee Stadium. Yankee Stadium, down a run. Big left center field field big spot that's a spot like when when a young guy does stuff like that and you're seeing it with Bellinger same thing when

these young guys in these big spots and they're coming through and you start expecting them to come through I don't know you the stats don't there's no stat that comes up for that I'm watching that Yankee game going lefty on lefty he should get blown away by this guy. I feel like he's going to get his bat on something.

I thought he was getting a single, not a homer. I, you know, I just, for me, I just saw the highlight and just what he's done, obviously, in this short period of time is remarkable. But to your thought earlier, it is amazing. The talent these days, as far as velocity, these young players, what they can do with their baseball, where you're seeing Aaron Judge, Stanton, and our guy, Cody Bellinger at such

a young age. And I'm all about the veterans. And I know that there's a place for that. And I was that veteran player in old school. But this game where it's at right now, it's a young players game. And it really puts the onus on coaches, managers to teach. And I think that, you know, there was a time where you, you kind of lean towards the veterans to essentially coach their, their, their teammates and, and coach each other where there's that

going on too. But this day and age of baseball with the metrics and the shifting it and the velocity, it's as tough to play now as it ever has been do you wish that we didn't have shifting um no uh not necessarily no because i i think that um well it's good for you because you're one of the smartest managers so i'm sure it's an advantage you know it is and you know you look at the dodgers and what we do we convert a lot we're top two in baseball and balls and play converted to outs. I do believe the pendulum is going to, is going to kind of tilt a little bit more towards the bat manipulation. And it kind of puts the emphasis on the, on the position players to do that. So I don't think it's I think it's a part of the game and it's,

it's on the hitters to kind of make that adjustment. You, especially the last few years of your career where you were a platoon guy or a bit like 04, I don't even think you started 10 times down the stretch. How much does that help as a manager? I would assume in a weird way, that's a huge advantage. It is. It is. And I think that as a manager, there's so many different people you have to be in contact with, have to touch, have to connect with. And so for me, as a player who came up as a older player, as far as getting an opportunity with the Indians and playing with the great players like Robbie Alomar, Tomi, Sandy, Kenny, David Justice, Doc and all these guys, Oral Hershiser. And then to be a starting player in a big market and then to kind of have that decline

as a utility platoon guy, bench guy, be injured and all that stuff. And then to do TV front office. So for me, I feel very fortunate that I got to check a lot of boxes so I can sort of relate to everyone outside of the superstar player like the Corey Seegers or the Cody Bellinger, which I never had the opportunity to wear that hat.

It's easy to get along with those guys. Just be like, hey, man, keep it going. Do it great. Just pat them on the butt. Just stay out of the way of those guys. But you've used your whole roster so well this year. What's weird about this Dodgers season, you're like 50 games over 500 now? 50 games over 500.

Which is insane. It's insane. But you've actually had a lot of injuries. We have. You've had to use the whole roster and the way this new 10-day DL rule where you've been able to use the bullpen. You guys were the smartest with that out of anybody. We are. Our guys are anybody um we are our guys how many guys have used like 35 guys at this point i think 35 and last year it was near or over 50 yeah and for us to do what we did last year was insane but this year we're managing and i think that we have more depth you know one through 25 one through 40 as

far as the 40 man roster and anyone in baseball. And we tap into it. And the other part of part of it is I think the biggest win for me and the coaches and the organization is to get guys to be unselfish. You know, everyone wants to earn for their families, for themselves, to get opportunities, to pitch, to get the at-bats. But the bigger goal to concede some of that to win a championship takes a lot of sacrifice. And our guys, two of them, have done that, where you give Austin Barnes, Chris Taylor, different pitchers, Kike Hernandez an opportunity to play.

There's got to be some concessions, and we have that in our clubhouse. It also helps that you have five outstanding baseball players. You've got to be some concessions. And we have that in our clubhouse. It also helps that you have like five outstanding baseball players. You got to have those carriers. You got to have Clayton Kershaw. You got to have Kenley Jansen, Corey Seager, you know, Cody Bounger. You have to have those guys. We have those guys. Like the 07 Red Sox, which kind of fluked their way into winning. They just caught fire for eight games and all of a sudden they won the world series but ortiz and manny just sure all of a sudden got super duper hot at the same time there's there's and that always helps and it always helps and to this day uh david the biggest clutch performer i've ever seen and i've lived Yeah. And those at bats that he took in 2004 and throughout his

post-season career, what he did consistently over a big sample, I've never seen anything like it. And Manny, you're talking about when a guy's in scoring position, he's going to drive that run. And Manny being Manny is all fun and we all love Manny and doing his deal. But when guys are on base, there's a different focus. And you know, that those are special players. You love Manny and doing his deal. But when guys are on base, there's a different focus. And, you know, those are special players. You love Manny, but you're glad you never managed him. Boy, you know, hey, if he's driving in 150, I got no problem. Yeah, keep coming in.

Keep being weird, Manny. I hear you. But he was such – but, you know, in the clubhouse, we loved him. We loved him, and we kind of took him for what he was. But the base running the defense a lot of times was compromised but in the batter's box i like him in the batter's box he's still my my twitter picture has never changed the picture you get on twitter it's still manny with his arms up after the home run i just love that guy i just right you know he became

pretty polarized near the end sure and especially the media really turned on him. And as you know, in Boston, people love to get heated one way or the other. I just, I love the guy. I've never seen anybody like him, you know? And I just don't think we'll see a lot of different types of players over the years, but I just think Manny's a one of a kind. We'll never see anybody that strange. Remember when he cut off, you probably, you weren't on the team at this point.

He cut off the throw from the left field that's one of my highlights i was just i i was there a little bit a couple months later but it's a lunatic dave newhand one of my good buddies hit that ball in the left center field and and anyone who knows fenway park how short that porch is and for manny to think that he's going to be the cutoff man for Johnny Damon is, who didn't throw well, obviously we all know that. And you see the footage and it is hilarious. And he's really makes a great effort. I mean, I don't see if, I don't think I've ever seen him make an effort on a ball. Yeah, that was the hardest thing to ever try.

I mean, he sold out, tried to dive and cut it off and gets inside the park home run. I mean, it's just comical. There was one time when they were trying to trade him and it was the trade deadline. It was on a Sunday and they ended up, they held him out of the lineup, but then they didn't trade him. And then he came into the ninth inning in a pinch hit spot and the crowd's going crazy. And it was like, I bet my life, life man he's getting a hit on this sure enough but he was one of those guys where you have these these rare guys were like no bet my life i

bet my life he's coming through here right and i think that there was a there was an incident in in la when he came and i heard about this said he didn't take bp it was his bobblehead night didn't play uh wasn't on the field at all in the clubhouse comes and hits a pinch hit grand slam or big homer to win the game and gives everyone a high five goes right back into the clubhouse and that's manny being manny and and also shoot the play at camden yards robs of robs a play makes a great play going over his head gets up on the wall high fives a fan throws it back in and doubles a guy off at first base and it's like, who does that? Who is the biggest character in this Dodgers team, not counting Puig?

Not counting Puig, I would say the biggest character is Kike Hernandez. You know, we have a lot of Chase Utley type blue collar guys and Clayton Kershaw, Corey Seager, Justin Turner. But I think that as far as one person with the personality that I guess balances out everyone in the clubhouse, it's probably Kike. And he's a heck of a baseball player. He can be a clown, but we don't get it twisted. He can play the game. But the practical jokes on social media, guys love him. You need a couple of guys like that on a good baseball team to thrive, correct? You do. Because there's got to be that comic relief.

It's a lot. It's six months of game after game after game. It is. And not counting a month and a half of spring training. And when you're the Dodgers, you're looking to play through October. So there's a lot of baseball in the calendar year. So when you have a guy like him that can kind of, guys gravitate towards, towards has fun with things can be the butt of a joke and feel good about it but also poke fun at guys like uh yasiel or kenley and things like that and guys receive it well

it is good for me it's good for the coaches and the players obviously so this is a two-part question oh four you get to boston and the fan base is just, you know, all time tortured and skies falling and, and they were die, all that stuff. And then you watch that flip as you're there, this Dodgers team, they, they won an 88, which in my, I've argued with my Dodger fans about this. Like one of the craziest world series wins. When you look at like the talent they had, Hershizer's out of his mind. They pull it off. I think they've been in the playoffs 13

times since they have had all these different moments that the Dodger family, this happened, that happened. Do you, do you feel like a sense of urgency slash torture slash some sort of level of emotion? That's a little atypical because this has now been 30 years of stuff. Can you feel it? Okay. So first, one of the first weeks I got to Boston, I was having dinner with my wife and one of the fans, a Red Sox fan came to me and says, the Red Sox took my grandfather, took my father, and you guys are coming after me. So that was pressure. Yeah.

There you go. Enjoy your meal. Yeah. Enjoy your sushi. But here, it's more of you might have taken my father's life, and the Dodgers are coming after my life. So the generational, it's been 28 years. So not to the degree of where we were at with 86 years in Boston, but Los Angeles is such a great city. One of the great cities in our country, and it's such a storied franchise,

the Dodgers organization. And Mark Walter, our owner, good friend of mine, and he's ultra, ultra competitive. And you look at Stan Kass and then the front office and, you know, the players and the coaches. So there's a lot of everywhere I go, you know, it's winner bus, World Series or bus is what we hear. And I get it. We get it. But I think that for us in the clubhouse, it's that understanding of what everyone's goal is. But still, how do we focus on winning each day? And I think that it just kind of allows for us to get over some of the expectations, the pressure, I guess, that people call it. Because right now we can't control October. I mean, we really can't.

We know our goal is to win 11 games in October. But right now in August, there's nothing we can do about it. So our guys are doing a great job of keeping that focus. When did you realize this team had a chance to be great? I would say 50 games over 500. I think a little bit before 50 games over 500, I was kind of in tune with our club. I think even in spring training, because after last, losing game six in Chicago, it was tough. And the tone of the clubhouse where there wasn't a pity party, there was frustration, disappointment. But we knew the core guys are going to come back. And once once we signed Kenley again, we resigned Justin Turner, Rich Hill, and that group was going to come back. I knew that, you know, we were going to be a major player again this year in 17. So as we've kind of gone through the season, that's the way it's played out.

And you knew Bellinger was going to be a phenomenon. And I knew Bellinger was going to have 34 homers in the log. Yeah, of course. Right. Chris Taylor was going to hit leadoff for us every day. And, you know, JT was going to lead the league in hitting. So yeah, of course I knew that. Yeah. Gonzalez.

I went to a game. I took my son. I'm going to say may, but he, he was obviously hurting. I remember watching him in the red socks and it was one of these things where you're like, oh man,

like, are they going to have to push him aside? What's he going to do? And now, now he's been out for a while. And, you know, you've been in that situation too. You're the veteran.

This guy who was this big part of the team, and now obviously he's going to be a bench guy the rest of the way. How do you deal with somebody like that? Yeah, Rajai Davis. Rajai Davis was the guy for me, where it's like he's the new player coming to the young guy, and you've got to kind of step aside. When I was in San Francisco and, and Adrian had, was that guy when Ryan Kolesko in San Diego. So it happens to everyone. And,

and I think to Adrian's credit is there was a point where we were going to send Cody out because he had options and Adrian was, was playing, but realized at that point he wasn't healthy. And so he came to us and said, Hey, I get what's going on. I see what's going to happen. But for me, I think it's best for the, for the organization, for us, for me to go on the disabled list for the first time in my career to give Cody a runway. Nice. And he did that. And all year he's been trying to kind of get through his injuries and obviously Cody's flourished and had the year. So Adrian's coming back here when we go to Detroit this weekend, and we'll see how that plays out.

But understanding that, you know, Cody is going to get the lion's share of playing time because right now the player that he is, he deserves that opportunity. How much advanced metrics slash I mean, the information's incredible and has been for the good teams had it last decade. Now everybody has it. The thing that changed this year has been this mile per hour off the bat and all of these stats that happen.

But how much do you look at that? How prepared are you? What do they give you a report? That's like a three page report. Like what's your process? It's much deeper than a three page report. Okay. It's, deeper than a three-page report. It's endless. And I think that in a good way, as far as each series, each game on every player, pitcher, hitter, opposition. thing for us as coaches is the information is amazing but when you get the players more concerned

about exit velocity versus a situation of getting a guy over getting a guy in when the infield's back getting your bat on the ball and to help you win a baseball game which supersedes everything and so that's the challenge for us where there's so much, you know, the readings of the velocity, which we've always had, you know, for a long time, velocity readings, but still executing the pitch and not just how hard you throw and not being a showcase player, but being a winning major league championship player. So that's where my initial point earlier, where the coaches really become a big player in the sense of teaching these guys how to win baseball games. But the metrics information we get, the data is all good. And it is fascinating when you see how you can sort of quantify a lot of things that we had questions of, you know, why can a guy with those 90 miles an hour isn't getting squared up by hitters when you see the radar gun, it says 90 because his spin rate and it holds the plane and the perception of a hitter when he sees the ball coming from the mound to the to the home

plate where there's a certain angle that a hitter is used to call it 16 degrees and this particular pitcher might hold that line at 17 degrees. And so that perception and the perceived velocity is different. So that's why you get the swing and miss or the pop-up. So there's a lot of things that you go, oh, he's not just sneaky, is what I used to say. His fastball is sneaky. So now we can quantify a lot of different things. So it's a lot of fun.

And for me, the mind-grow thinking and talking to our front office all the time and our coaches are open to it. So it's a lot of fun. And for me, the, the mind grow thinking and talking to our front office all the time and our coaches are open to it. So it's been really good. It's been even fun having a fantasy baseball team, you know, like going and look and be like, ah, I'm thinking of trading this pitcher. I'm going to go on Brooks baseball and see how his velocity is by the month. That stuff is insane. We never had that stuff 10 years ago. Never had that stuff. And that's why i think that this game is as tough to play as it's ever been and you're not talking about is can ted williams play in this era how would barry bonds do how would willie maze that's not the point the point being

is where you have all the shifts for all for one through eight where you can really attack a hitter's weakness and now you've get guys throwing 95 plus more than anyone and i think last year i want to say i heard you know close to close to 30 guys hit 100 miles an hour last year so wow this is stuff that hasn't happened in ever in baseball so not talking about the talent level but as far as but in some ways i am because guys are bigger and stronger and now the uh you know how you oppose guys and and scout against guys is is really at a premium and if you have a weakness it's going to be exploited they're going to find it i have a crazy dodgers friend who i won't name who's like ask roberts about we have puig in the eighth eight hole and they've been

just throwing they they don't care if they walk him as much there. And they've just been throwing the slider low and away, which was his weakness. But now he's learning how to hit it because he's seen it so much. I'm like, what are you talking about? But it is funny. Like if you have that little one thing and I'm waiting for them to find it with Devers and they have not found it yet, but they will, they'll find it. They will.

And then it's that cat and mouse where he's going to have to make that adjustment. Cause judge, they judge, they found out a couple of things and they flipped it on him. And then he had to, they're throwing a lot of stuff in the dirt. That's right. And even our guy, Cody Bellinger, when he first came up, they were throwing them up and in, they were pounding them in with the fastball and he was having trouble getting to that velocity. And then in San Diego, he took a ball at his neck and hit a grand slam and made that adjustment. And from that point on, now the league's got to readjust. And so it's the down and away. And now this young player is taking walks, keeping the line moving. And that's for me, the growth and the maturation process of a young player that when they do try to pitch around you and yasiel puig

to his credit is on that same kind of line where he was out of the zone a lot and hitting in the eight where you have the pitcher behind you it can be tough yeah um but he was ultimately taking balls and swinging at strikes and now he's got more homers than he's ever hit and arguably more productive than he's ever been. Yeah. I've noticed a difference with the Dodgers crowd, not just this year, but I think it's been the last two. And I think there's two reasons because I've been here since 2002, hard to get tickets, hard to get tickets last minute,

hard to get to the game, hard to get out. Now you have the secondary market where you can, you can look three hours before and be like, oh, I want to sit there. I'll go. And then you can take Uber. Sure. And it seems like not only is, obviously you guys are good. That's a huge part of this, but it does seem like the ballpark is a little more full in the last couple of innings for some of these comebacks. And I think it was 10 years ago. Do you notice that or am I crazy? I do. I do. There was a point where i i know when i played with eric gagne when he was the premier closer in baseball there was a lot of fans sticking around to to uh see the welcome to the

jungle yeah um and then leave it and then yeah right um but i will say that we lead all of baseball all of sports dod Dodger Stadium in attendance. And it's a tough ticket to get. And you do see the anticipation, the energy, the excitement every single time at the ballpark. And obviously, yeah, winning helps. But there is something to the fact that I hear from fans, I hear from ownership, that we have this kind of workmanlike attitude that I think that, yeah, we're in Hollywood, we're in Los Angeles with a lot of stars, but I still think

that as a whole, appreciate that blue collar mentality that Chase Utley, Clayton Kershaw, Corey Seeger, Justin Turner, those guys have. Yeah. I mean, they have a couple of advantages this decade. One is giant wallet. I think that helps to be able to go get expensive players. I think Magic really helped. No doubt. He was definitely a transformative guy for that franchise, gave them a little bit of an identity. The stadium's just a gem. It's a gem. I'm always going to be loyal to Fenway for the rest of my life, but Dodger Stadium is like, it's like 1A, 1B for me. It is.

Sorry, Tommy. Wrigley's like distant 1C. But if you go to Dodger Stadium and you drive up that hill. It's beautiful. And Vin Scully way and you get in there and it's beautiful. It's a ballpark. It feels like a sports movie. It does.

It does. It does. Especially like you go, you're there like July when the sun starts coming down about 745, but they're already playing. And it's just like, you're like, wow, is this, how is this a baseball stadium? It's really nice. It is. It's, and it's all about the baseball and the field is perfectly manicured. You know, those Dodger white uniforms are as white as any uniforms in all of baseball.

And, you know, with the history, I mean, you're talking yankees cubs red socks dodgers yeah um and so yeah you're going back you know to brooklyn you're going back my great-grandfather was a dodgers fan when you start getting multi-generations yeah that's when it changes every day you know at home we see don newcomb there yep and And so. That's got to be amazing. It's amazing. And to hear. And Sandy's been out. Sandy Koufax has been out a few times this year and really speaks well about our ball club.

And, you know, when you hear stories like that from those men and appreciate what we're doing. And it's pretty cool. It's really cool. And talk to Maury Wills. And so I just think that with the Dodgers, there's a responsibility for us currently to do right by this city, this organization. And I think we're doing a good, good job so far. Did you feel at some point during this streak? Hey, it's not even a, I don't even know what you'd call it at this point.

What do you call when you've been hot for five months? I don't even see it as a streak. That's the thing is that people want to call it a streak. And you point to when Cody Bellinger got here, when Chris Taylor got called up. But I think that, and I've said it before, is this is who we are. So, yeah. But do you start thinking about, does it even matter? What if you have the most wins in a season?

I don't think it really matters. I think that for us, how we go about each day. 1%? I don't think it does. I mean, I think it's something great to talk about, great to write about. And I think that when you look back, it's certainly an accomplishment because it shows consistency throughout a season. But I think for us to not chase the win, not chase the hit, you know, just how we go about doing things. And our guys have bought in. Can I give you some advice as a Patriots fan? I want the advice. Bring it.

I definitely wish we hadn't gone for 19-0 at this point, all these years later. Would have rather had the Super Bowl. I did think it wore them down. I don't think people, most people probably don't even know what the record is in baseball. I think the 19-0 in the NFL probably had a little bit more oomph. Right. Some team went, what, like 116-36 in the 1900s. I can't even remember what the record is.

But if you were like 60 games over 500, I would think that's incredible. I don't know how many teams have done that. 70? I know. Wherever it ends. I don't know. I don't know how many teams have done that. 70? I know. Wherever it ends. I don't know. I don't even know where. And I think that that's the argument where you can debate what's more important, the rest, or keeping your sharpness. And so I think that every player is different.

And you talk about the Pats and that team. I really enjoyed watching that team play. But if, I think, was that the David Tyree? Was that that? Sorry. You're right. Just daggered. enjoyed watching that team play you know but if uh you know i think was that the david tyree uh was that that that's so yeah you're right but but the thing is though is that if if he doesn't make that play and they go 19 and oh and now i would have said great idea okay it's a great idea so it's kind of if something that you talk about and you believe in and the process and the thought going through it then it's like you kind of have to live with the results so to look back i just kind of don't really take that view but i enjoyed watching that patriot i think the warriors i

forgot they're another great example right the guys had a team meeting do we want to go for this 73 wins yeah they all said let's go for it right and it worked out it worked out but they lost in the oh they lost the three years ago that's right yeah they got the record-1 lead. That was two years ago. That's right. Yeah, they got the record. Yeah. I don't know if they would do that again. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe not. I think with baseball, though, the concerns that you have about this stretch of, what is it, four and a half weeks in October? Sure.

You're putting this incredible burden on your pitching staff, and you got to get the starters ready. You have to manage for October once it gets to September, especially you'll be a hundred games ahead of the second place. No, you're right. And also it does help when you have a lot of good players that you can plug in. And for us just trying to keep all the players current relevant and making them feel a part of this. And I think up to this point, we've done that. And that's something that it makes it easier when philosophically, that's what. And I think up to this point, we've done that. And that's something that it makes it easier when philosophically, that's what you believe in.

So to your point, giving guys rest with whatever margin you have as far as a lead, I think for us as the Dodgers, it's pretty easy to do. And it's something that we've kind of done a lot anyway. Tonight, Cody Bellinger is going to get a day off. And we're off tomorrow. We were off Monday. But I think for me, just the value of him sitting there and watching a baseball game has value. And also to get somebody else in there and do the come over, sit next to me. Uh, you know,

come here, son. I might have, he, he, yeah, he could be my son. And, um, but yeah, we'll spend some time together. And I just liked that there is something to not having to prepare for that night and just kind of checking out for a little bit. Can we talk about when you almost got in a yeah, we'll spend some time together. And I just like that there is something to not having to prepare for that night and just kind of checking out for a little bit. Can we talk about when you almost got in a fight? Sure. That was fun. Everything's open.

That was your little sports center moment. But it became a vine. It became a, or they don't have vines anymore, a gif. The gif is a thing, right? Yeah, the gif. So my kids are showing me the gif. You're ready to roll. You're ready to throw down.

You know what? I loved it. I guess that fire is certainly in there. I try to stay more even keeled, but he got me going right there. So we kind of got past it. And I respect what Andy Green and the Padres, what they're doing. Was there a text afterwards? There was not a text after.

Oh, so there's still some bad blood. All right. Yeah. We exchanged lineup cards last week. So we're good. Do you stink eye him a little bit? No. Were you ever in a fight you stink eye him a little bit? No. Not at all?

Were you ever in a fight as a player? As a player, you know, just the kind of bench clearing. And I was more the peacemaker getting in there and trying to break things up. So you never took out a shortstop? No, I did that. I did that, but never, but not in a dirty way. So it never really came to anything. Okay.

I was like, because i was going to say maybe there's something on youtube but i apparently not no no you i don't want you to waste your time one thing about october that i think is that i think they should change this rule i think if you get the one seed you know basically it's still a five game series yes and all the something bad happens again all of a sudden you're down to one on the other teams, whatever turf you in this must win game. You just played for six months to have home field advantage. And in one game it could go away. I wish they had the one seed in each league had four of the five games at home. They would never do this, but I do feel like you should earn

something for that. Now people would say, well, you earn do feel like you should earn something for that. Now, people would say, well, you earn the fact that you're playing the wildcard team that won. They probably spent, they used their best pitcher in the wildcard game. Right. But I still wish there was a little more. It is crazy to think that you guys can go in October having gone 115 and 47 or whatever the record is.

Right. And then all of a sudden it's, you know, one misstep and you're behind and that, you know, it's just nuts. I don't know if it's a good way to do it. I know. No, I know. And I, and I know that baseball is obviously open to anything and, and whatever, you know, is, is best for the fans, but it is a big advantage though, to have that one seat in the sense of having that wild card team play that playing game yeah and exhaust their best pitcher and whatever bullpen they have maybe a closer for two innings sure because it's it's win or go home and so to then have one day off to then start a new series where you got the team rested and the pitching lined up but where we're at right now i don't

i wouldn't be against the four games at home. Let's take a quick break to talk about our friends at SimpliSafe. Some are winding down. Life's going back to normal. Maybe you're coming back from vacation. Kids are going back to school. Now, the perfect time to protect your home with SimpliSafe Home Security. Or you can rest easy knowing that your home and family are protected already with SimpliSafe,

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That's $100 off at simplisafe.com slash BS. Back with Dave Roberts. I'm always fascinated when managers get experimental with their closer. You got super experimental game five of the Cub series last year. Walk me through that. So we were up and it was game five and it was win or go home to potentially go to the NLCS. And so I brought Kenley in, he ended up throwing over 50 pitches and then I brought in Clayton Kershaw on two days rest to come in and finish that game. And it worked. And it worked. There was like a 10 minute stretch on Twitter when you were on two days rest to come in and finish that game.

And it worked. And it worked. There was like a 10 minute stretch on Twitter when you were getting killed. Oh, of course there was. I mean, yeah. What's he doing? Oh yeah.

I mean, believe me, my son lets me know all the stuff that all the different sites and all the different Instagram, Twitters of how bad I am. And it's comical, but I try to encourage him to stay away from that stuff but that that's the funny thing though is that there's that moment and then when it works out that it goes dead until they find something else yeah that's what i signed up for it's part of it so a do or die game you would get super crazy but otherwise do you try to keep to a

certain structure you keep to a certain structure but i think that when you're talking about the postseason and like what you said is you're one, you're one, one, and then potentially that third game, that rubber game is in the balance. Do you exhaust everything to win that game to take the advantage in a short series? So what do you say? What do you say to your closer? Do you tell him before the game, like, be ready for the fifth on? Yeah, I, I, we were in the lunchroom at Nationals Park and before that game, and I said, it could be the fifth on? Yeah. We were in the lunchroom at Nationals Park before that game, and I said it could be the fifth inning.

And when you're looking at the postseason, you're looking at 27 outs, and you're really trying to line up your pen to their roster and to their lineup. And so when a certain spot came up and I felt that he was the best match from that point for the next nine hitters, I wanted to kind of deploy him then. And then once he was exhausted and gassed and he walked Jason Wirth, then it was like, now what do we do? And so at that point in time, come the sixth inning, Clayton was looking at the innings and watching the sixth or seventh and saying, who's going to pitch after Kenley if he can't go? And he said he wants to do it.

Yeah. And so for him to kind of look me in the eye and say he can do it, that's all I needed to hear. The only time I ever remember counting outs in my life, which is now 42 years as I've been since the 75 season, the only time I remember counting outs, literally counting them was game seven Oh four in Yankee stadium. Oh man, that was fun. And it was,

we had this huge lead, but it just seemed like there was so much time left. It was like, Oh, 11 outs to go. Right. 10 outs to go. And it just,

it felt like they had 40 outs. You know what? And there was just so many things in that series that went our way. Yeah. Oh yeah. Tony Clark's ground rule double. Oh my God. Went the other way. Yeah. You know what? And there was just so many things in that series that went our way as far as the Red Sox. Tony Clark's ground rule double? Oh my God. That went the other way. Yeah. You know, home runs that were reversed and, you know, the A-Rod play with the Royo and the Tony Clark. If that ball hits the wall and caroms and isn't a ground rule double, Derrick scores.

I still can't believe Wakefield came in in one of those games in like the 14th inning. He's throwing knuckleballs to Veritech, who I don't think had caught, had really- No, because it was Mirabelli. Had caught him. Yeah. And just watched that go, and this is how our season's gonna end.

Some knuckleball in the dirt. Of course it is. Of course it is. But it was, yeah, I mean, that's the thing with this Dodger season. You're having this now where all these things are going right, but it's like, how do you stretch this? Yeah.

Now it's got to also happen October. Tell me about you, Darvish. So you is, he's pitching tonight. Turns out he's pretty good. He's pretty good. Yeah. He's confident. Yeah, he's confident.

That's right. But no, he couldn't be happier to be a dodger it was a dream of his to pitch for the dodgers and obviously you know when you've got hideo nomo and um you know the other japanese uh players that played for the dodgers ishii and koroda and so to have him here, he's very intelligent, very well-spoken, very curious to information and learning his teammates. He's very physical. And I didn't realize, I didn't realize. Six, five, right? I mean, he's kind of six, four, six, five and put together.

He's ambidextrous with those lefty and righty, which I didn't realize either. Game four? Game four, yeah. He's going to go game two and then he's going to't realize either. Game four? Game four, yeah. He's going to go game two and then he's going to go game four. Yeah, exactly. Get one of those gloves where it's like you got Zimmerman, then you got Harper, and then you just change hands. Yeah.

So, but. And has the ability to ignite the crowd. He does. If he really has it going. He does. Especially September, October. And I think we're going to see that tonight and through October. But his stuff really plays up. And I think that's one thing that i was talking to clayton

once we got him and clayton was watching on tv when we were in atlanta or actually he made his start in new york and so when we were when he was back home watching the start in new york and just seeing his stuff and when you're seeing 95 to 97 the breaking ball the split and how it really plays in the swing and miss in the strike zone it's real yeah and so when you're talking about the postseason you're facing ones and twos the scouting you got to have stuff that really plays up and you his stuff plays up so you have it all planned out in your head october september is is to get ready for that october you got Kershaw in game one. Yeah, just between you and I.

Just tell us. Just between you and I, yeah. We can spill it. We'll just keep it between us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Figure out, I mean, who's game three? Well.

Do you know yet? It's probably going to be Alex Wood. So we'll see. I mean, that could change, but Alex has had a great year and things can change but you know obviously when you look at kershaw um darvish wood hill and then you've got ryu and maida we've we've got some a lot of depth and these guys have done a lot of good things for us but um there's still a long way to go but can i give you my theory on champagne celebrations i want to hear it goggles or no goggles i as somebody who wears contact lenses i can't imagine what would hurt more than having Can I give you my theory on champagne celebrations? I want to hear it. Goggles or no goggles?

As somebody who wears contact lenses, I can't imagine what would hurt more than having champagne in your eyes. I think the liquor should get better with each quenching. I like that. I think the World Series should be champagne. I think when you quench the playoffs. So you go like natural light. It's beer. Yeah, it's natty light.

It's not natty light. It's natty light for quenching the playoffs. The Beast, Milwaukee's Best, whatever it is. Key it is keystone one you get a little better yeah now now you've moved up and by so what do you do at round three you're going with like an ipa oh and then and then uh and then you save the guys on the on the on the clubhouse floor man you get the ipa on the ground maybe malt liquor if you clinch the playoffs but it is the all the champagne celebrations i think is a little i don't know yeah by like yankee stadium 04 yes maybe break out the champagne for that because it was 86 years but but uh i always think like

back in the day what in the 50s, did they do this? When do you think stuff started? When did this start? We need you to dig into that. 70s? Because sometimes they show the Dodgers win the World Series and Koufax is walking up the mound. He's just shaking hands.

Yeah. Like he was at work. Yeah. And I remember seeing footage of guys hitting the homers and Tommy greeting him at home plate. Right. So that doesn't happen anymore. And when did the team go out there out of the dugout after a win yeah to jump up and down i've always i've always wanted to know that happened i remember that they always

said the high five started in the mid 70s with the oakland a's okay with this guy glenn burke who was like the first guy who ever gave a high five is that right yeah but i don't know when the jump up and down thing it felt i, I always thought like Manny and the Red Sox started it, but it must say that can't be true. We did that a lot. Yeah. It was like a whole, Manny would just get whammed on the helmet. He probably had a concussion.

I'm sure he did, but he played better with it. Wait, I want to ask you, you mentioned your son. How old is your son? He's 16. How many kids do you have? I have two. I have a 16 year old son, Cole, and I have a 12-year-old daughter, Emerson. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So I have a baseball player. I have a 12-year-old daughter, too. I can't even. Do you really? Yeah. I mean, I know she Googles me. I can't even imagine what your kids must be Googling you and checking out on Twitter,

all that stuff. They do. They do. And yeah, I can't keep them away from it. You didn't tell them stay off this stuff? I tried. But the 16 year old near impossible. So I just try to tell him to filter the stuff that he gets to me because a lot of it

isn't good. So, uh, you know, and you're 50 games over 500. I can't imagine if we were 10 games over 500. Yeah. I would say the expectations. Yeah. And they should be, but you know, it's for us, it's as much as people expect from us. I think that we expect more from ourselves. Yeah. What's the best thing Magic Johnson's told you? Make people around you better. And that's what he did as a player and he's continuing to do in the business world. And so for me, I'm always, you know, conscious of the people that I'm around and trying to get the best out of them. Who's your, who's your bench coach? Who's your conciliary? Bob Guerin, who managed the A's for years from San Diego.

And then he was a bench coach in New York. I like conciliary. I don't, I don't use bench coach. Conciliary. Yeah. Like in the, in the Godfather. Remember they had the conciliary. They had the conciliary. He's my conciliary. I'm going to, I'm going to use bench coach. Conciliary. Yeah. Like in the Godfather. Remember? Yeah. The conciliary. Yeah. The conciliary. He's my conciliary.

I'm going to use that one. Let's do away with bench coach. How much do you talk to him during the game? Non-stop. And it's about certain situations and potential matchups. And he's, so we kind of bounce a lot of different ideas off each other. Who is like. And Rick Honeycutt, the pitching coach as well. A lot of talk with him. So it's's all you're almost like a married couple like somebody's

somebody's a little too crazy and the other one's trying to calm them down so who's the calm down who's the crazy one i i think it works hand in hand sometimes he needs to calm me down and sometimes i need to calm him down garbage that guy doesn't have any stuff tonight i gotta go get him no no no he's not that bad yeah exactly And it kind of works vice versa. So we kind of have a good read on each other. Yeah. How much chatter is in the dugout in general? There's a lot.

We're a little, we're a trippy group. I think that'd be fun to be in a major league dugout and to hear a lot of the conversations and the chatter that goes on. And there's a lot of conversations, obviously, within the game as far as talking about approach but is it nine game stuff too yeah of course of course but there's also chirping at the other opponents the umpires just joking with them having fun um but you know it's three hours of baseball so there's a lot of dead time so

guys are having side conversations but still watching the game and kind of slowly preparing. And baseball is one of those things where you got to kind of be in and out of focus. You need that. Because for three hours, it's crazy to try to lock in. Half the time, you got to be worried you're going to get nailed by a foul ball. You better be a heads up of that too. Yeah, there's going to be watches. That's right. Well, I wish you the best. I'm really excited for this. It's been fun to watch. Just, I always like watching great teams. It's been fun to watch. Just, I always like watching great teams. This has a chance to be a great team.

The ability to just pull these wins out, whether you're either killing somebody or you're coming back, but there's this expectation watching this team now where it's like, oh, they're down 5-3. I'm going to keep watching. Oh, as long as there's dogs on the board, we're going to find a way to win. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Good luck. Thank you very much. And thank you for 2004 again. Every time I see you, I keep thanking you, but thank you again. I love the thanks. I should have worn my ring. Oh, Dave. I'm glad you didn't.

I would have passed out. Dave Roberts, good luck. All right, we're going to bring Mallory Rubin in, and we're going to call my dad, too, and talk about the Red Sox possibly trading for Giancarlo Stanton. Also, we're going to throw some game and throws at him. But first, let's talk about ProperCloth.com. Every guy knows it's hard to find a dress shirt that fits. Maybe the collar's too tight. The sleeves are too long. The shirt's too loose. Maybe you put on a little weight. All of a sudden, that shirt that really fit you well doesn't fit quite as

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slash BS gift code BS a warning if you're behind on Game of Thrones you can probably turn this off maybe we'll talk Game of Thrones at the top of this next part and then we'll shift into the Red Sox and maybe a little fast forward on your iPad

or your phone or wherever you're listening to this. If you don't want to hear what's happening lately on Game of Thrones, we're going to talk about it with Mallory. We're going to talk about that, the Red Sox, whether they should trade for Giancarlo Stanton. Then we're going to call my dad. And it's been Mallory's dream in life to talk about Game of Thrones with my dad. So we're going to do that right now.

All right. Mallory Rubin is in my office, One of the stars of Talk the Thrones. Hello. You have now become like our biggest media doing the most things person we have. Oh God. It's going to end soon though. Game of Thrones is almost over. You have to go back to your sad life of football and college football and just waiting to see

what happens. Back into the editing minds in just a couple of weeks. You will never know what happened with Danny and Jon Snow for another year. I think they end up together. I don't know if it'll be a year. It might be a two-year wait, year and a half. Sounds like we're going to be waiting a while for the final episodes. Yeah, I think so.

I mean, I hope not, but some initial reports indicate we're looking at like an 18-month thing. Can fire and ice really end up together? Well, first of all, I think yes, but also John himself is fire and ice. He is ice and fire if he's a Stark and Targaryen. Oh, yeah. That was why what we learned this week is so massive. And of course, it was sort of delivered in very hand-wavy fashion as Sam was mansplaining about how hard work is while Dilly was trying to drop this crucial intel. Yeah.

Very puzzling. And then you had to do live TV after. You're like shaking. You're going on TV of this big revelation. Sunday was really hard. It was interesting. I'm always shaking in those moments because I care about the show so much. It's a lot to process.

And to not, you know, to go on and talk about it right away is like is a sort of strange, slightly disorienting experience in a way that's fun. you know, to go on and talk about it right away is like, is a sort of strange, uh, slightly disorienting experience in a way that's fun. Um, Sunday's episode was so packed and had so much crucial information and so many characters making puzzling decisions that for the first time I was actually like, I can't process this. And so I focused in the moment on talk of thrones on the things that were like exciting and fun. Jon petting a dragon. How awesome is that? It's great.

And then when Jason and I did binge mode yesterday, we'd had a couple of days to process the episode more. And I think got to the point where we both realized like we were very excited on Sunday and then kind of were like, this was not great. There are a lot of problems in that episode. A lot of characters acting in a fashion that seems contrary to who they are or who they always have been, who we understand them to be. And the pacing was like really disorienting, really disorienting. Even in a season where people are moving from point A to Z, like not only like from one week to another, but from one scene to the next, there's just so much happening so quickly that you have to, at this point, be asking some questions, I think, about how it's all playing out. We might have another incest baby coming. So that's good. That was good news. You buy it?

You think she's being genuine? Could it be neurons? Could it be fake? Could it be a ploy? I have two questions for you. Yeah. How would you pet the dragon? If it was up to you, the dragon's coming in.

Would you go like for the nose or I would go under the chin. I feel like they- Oh, a chin scratch. Yeah, like, you know- As a first move. Dogs love that. Dogs love the under the chin neck

kind of rub. So as you know, I'm a cat owner. Yeah. I love all animals. Cats, dogs, dragons. You love animals more than anyone. Love an animal.

I've made a million little videos of my dogs every once in a while. I love it. I just get animal. I have a million little videos of my dogs every once in a while. I love it. I just get excited. I cherish it. Yeah. I, as someone who really enjoys meeting a new cat, I am trained, my instinct is to stick my hand out for a sniff.

Mm. To say, here, take a whiff. I do that with dogs. Let me know what you think. They appreciate that. Then if you're into it, go behind the ear, under the chin. Well, behind the ear would have been good with the dragon. Oh, yeah.

So do you think you should have- That's really far away though. Behind a dragon's ear is like you need a ladder, especially if you're a shortest John, you know? So do you think dragons work with like with the sniff? You think Jon Snow should have done that? Just put the hand out for the sniffer? That's sort of what he did, right? And then he like, he went once Drogon kind of was like receptive and didn't burn him or eat him.

Then he started to pet him. And then Drogon gave the little blink. Yeah, he enjoyed it. The blink. Yeah. Jason and I were talking yesterday to try to figure out, is the eye motion that we saw meant to indicate that some sort of warging was taking place? That Jon and Drogon were actually like mentally connecting in some way? I think

the answer is probably no, just because Drogon is bonded with Dany and a dragon will not accept another rider while its current rider is alive. And Jon obviously should be paired. I think that that's a rule. Yeah. It's more of a social norm, you know? Jon really should be paired with Rhaegal, the dragon who's named after, you know, his father. I was just thinking that. Yeah, of course. But it was a really cool moment, I think, to remind us of what the connection between characters and animals in this story can be.

And, of course, as beautiful and moving as it was, my secondary reaction was, where's Ghost? Yeah. Because that's, Jon's got one of those already, you know? Ghost was a little jealous, I think. From afar. That dragon connection. Sensing it. I would hold the hand out. You've talked me jealous, I think. From afar. That dragon connection. Sensing it. I would hold the hand out. You've talked me into that. Let the dragon get a sniff and then go to

the chin. Then you go to the chin. I also think the dragon probably has incredibly bad breath. You figure, I don't know what the dragon's eating all day, but then also the fire coming out of there. People, you know? Some Tarly soldiers in there. Some really strong halitosis. So John's probably getting a whiff of that pretty soon. I think you're right, though, for what it's worth. I don't think anyone on Game of Thrones smells good. No, you're right. It's like 1800s France multiplied by 100.

When John and Ygritte finally fucked in the cave. Yeah. My first reaction was, yes. Yeah. My second was hygiene. Yeah. Hyg yeah it can't be great i think they appreciated it more back then they liked the bad hygiene more i think that's true the odors were kind of a turn on there was the great moment earlier in the show's run where talisa you know told rob that her family always thought of the westerosi as stinking barbarians and she said it with a lot

of lust in her voice so So you might be right. Remember Napoleon would send notes to his mistresses and tell them not to shower for weeks until he got home. Freaky dude. Don't bathe. Yeah. That was a weird dude, man.

Speaking of weird dudes, Giancarlo Stanton, who changed his name from Mike, like five weeks. Why did he do that? Did we ever, why not just go with that from the get-go? That's a good question.

I don't know. I think he- I still feel like he's Mike in my brain. I have trouble transferring to the Giancarlo. Oh, no. I made the adjustment quickly. Did you really? It's such a cool name.

It is a good name. It also sounds so forceful and powerful. It feels right for a home run hitter. That's what he's been this year. I know. It's interesting. He mistakenly said- Yeah.

That he thought the home, whether he mistakenly said it or not, that he thought the home run record was 61. He had a chance. People are like, oh. You think that was a mistake? This is so cute. You don't think that's major shade at Bonds? I felt like it was shade. Yeah.

Yeah. I think so too. I like that. FYI, I kind of agree that might be the record. Yeah, sure. If he hit 63, do we adopt that as the record there will be a large contingent of not only people in the sport but certainly people in the media making that case obviously i mean that's where you go back to the hall of fame stuff and what are we willing to sort of adjust

on and what aren't we willing to adjust on if bonds isn't going to be in the hall of fame do the records count if bonds is in the Hall of Fame, do the records count? If Bonds is in the Hall of Fame, let's just burn it down. Well. Bonds could have been hit by a bus at the end of the 98 season and he's in the Hall of Fame. Right.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. But then the logic bends the other way too, which is like, if his achievements are enough to get him into the Hall and we're okay sort of saying this was basically what baseball was

for a certain period of time, then the record is's record right no matter what stanton thinks on the plaque asterisk just put it on the plaque just right there yeah this many needles this many times a day suspected to be a heavy pd person yeah during an era when everybody used pds i think my son can handle that when i take him to cooperstown i don't think he's going to be traumatized and sucking his thumb in the corner and sobbing because he saw something on a plaque he shouldn't have seen. He'll be too busy looking at blonde models on Instagram. Not in Cooperstown. That is a dude heavy place.

I think the only more dude heavy place is probably the collector's convention. So yeah, he'd probably need the Instagram more. That's right. So I wanted to have you on for a variety of reasons, but mainly because my friend Daniel emailed me yesterday and said, I am convinced the Red Sox should trade for Giancarlo Stanton. Okay. This is Babe Ruth in reverse, basically. This is our chance to get almost 100 years later to the day, 98 years, but who's counting, to get Giancarlo Stanton as he's

hitting this 60 homer year thing. His contract is horrible, but the Red Sox don't care. They've thrown away tens of millions of dollars to Pablo Sandoval and David Price already. That's why they should care. Put him in as basically DH, which would be better because he's been a little banged up. This year he's been healthy. DH, complete would be better because he's been a little banged up. Yeah. This year he's been healthy. DH, complete little outfield. Now he's like the Ortiz for this generation.

But now you have Ben Intende, my adopted son, Raphael Devers, Mookie Betts. You have this lineup and he's the centerpiece of it. If all those guys are on the team, who are you trading to get Stanton? So that's my question. What do they have to give up? The Marlins are selling their team. Right. Jeets.

To Jeets. He's going to run baseball operations. Good luck. That should go great. What's the point of having him unless you're going to spend money? I don't really understand. The Mike Trout thing is a little bit different because they just had really poor management and spent their money incorrectly. The Marlins, if you're going to have Stanton, you're not going to put a good team around them. What's the point?

It's an interesting question. I mean, I think obviously part of it is a little more philosophical in terms of assessing the state of the Marlins franchise and the way that that franchise in the Laureoria years has treated fans and treated basically fan expectation and engagement, which is to say like shit. Nobody has treated their fans worse over the past 20 plus years than the Marlins. I think for a new regime to take over and basically have the first or one of the first moves be to get rid of not only the franchise cornerstone and the best player on your team, but one of the best and most famous marketable players in baseball is a tough look. So that's certainly an argument for keeping him.

Then I think in terms of just the state of their franchise, they actually, this particular Marlins team is not in quite as bad of a position financially as some of the past Marlins teams that had to make fire sales. Like Christian Jelic is on an absurdly

team-friendly contract, absurdly team-friendly. Marcelo Zuna is one of the most exciting young outfielders in baseball. You keep those three guys, you build around that core, you can do cool things.

Now, you can't do cool things if you're going to give $80 or $90 million to pitchers like Wei and Chen. That's indefensible, basically. And their farm system is close to barren. So, there certainly is the argument for trying to acquire talent. That's a problem for the Red Sox. They've traded a lot of their prospects already. Right. I mean, the new paradigm in baseball right now, like you see what the White Sox are doing. Yeah. You see how successful the Astros and Cubs have been by basically just saying, we're

going to be, we're not just going to be bad. We're going to be really, really bad. Get as many elite prospects as we can, and then we're going to crush it. That's sort of what you have to commit to doing now if you're actually going to fully rebuild. It's the NBA model. I feel like the NBA created it and then the Cubs maybe were the first one

and then the Astros right behind them. Yeah, I mean, it's clearly what the White Sox are trying to do right now. And what do they have right now? Something like, I don't know the exact numbers. It's like they have nine of the top, like 70, 100 prospects in baseball. The White Sox have done it the best.

Yeah, that's incredible, right? They were getting 100 cents on the dollar for everybody. So if you're the Marlins and you look at what they're doing, you basically have to demand a similar return. You have to say we're getting elite players in return because rebuilding our farm system is the whole point of dumping a player like Stanton. The complication, of course, is the contract. After this season, he has 10 years and $295 million. So let's round up. 10 years, $300 million left on that deal. So he's gone through 37. Through 37. And then I think- He's probably a DH five years from now. I think there's a team option year for his 38-year season.

Yeah. Why'd they do that? That's a lot of money Yeah. Why'd they do that? That's a lot of money for someone who's going to be really old and gets hurt a lot. This is his really first healthy season, right? I looked it up. He had 145 games one year. One year. One year. There's another year it was close to that, and then he's had some iffy ones.

Obviously, some of his injury history has been just bad luck. Getting hit in the face, that's not your fault, obviously. But he's had leg problems and for better or worse, fair or unfair, you look at his baseball reference page and there are not multiple lines in a row where he's hit 160

games. There just aren't. And when you're paying somebody that much money and giving away prospects to get them. Maybe they have a bad training staff. Maybe. Maybe he shouldn't be an outfielder. I mean, you know, there just aren't. And when you're paying somebody that much money and giving away prospects to get them. Maybe they have a bad training staff. Maybe. Maybe he shouldn't be an outfielder. I mean, you've seen what he looks like though, right? I don't think conditioning is really the problem. True. Yeah. Maybe he shouldn't be an outfielder. Maybe. Maybe he should be a DH.

He is like his defensive war this year. Overall, he's, you know, top, depending on which, whether you're fan graphs or baseball reference, he's a top 10 player overall war this year. Overall, he's, you know, depending on which, whether you're fan graphs or baseball reference, he's a top 10 player overall war this year. Yeah. But his defensive war is negative. So it's certainly worth considering. There's not a lot of great

six foot six outfielders. Judge, six, seven. How tall is Hayward? He's really good too. Yeah, he's six five. Six five. Yeah. I mean, Hayward is like, he sets

the standard for outfield play, but he also, it turns out, kind of can't hit well. Yeah, right. That's going to be Judge in a month. Those strikeouts. The league's figured him out, man. Those strikeouts. He'll hit the hangar and that's it. All rise.

Another strikeout. I agree. I'm really enjoying it. The Home Run Derby had the Yankee fans just out of their minds. I did not like it. And now they've come back to earth a little bit. Do you believe in the idea that the Home Run Derby can like break a player? I do. Yeah. A hundred percent. I was really happy when he decided to participate.

It's happened too many times for it to be a coincidence. So with Stanton, the rub for the Marlins would be three years from now, if he starts breaking down and now you're in the hook for 200 million more for this. Basically, you're in the Pujols-Angels situation for even more money than what the Angels are paying Pujols. Yes. I mean, I guess the flip side is, what if he actually stays healthy for the next few years and actually is hitting 60 homers. And then he opts out because he has an opt out in a few seasons. So that's something to think about. What's the worst case scenario for the Marlins is that you don't deal him. He suddenly has figured out a way to stay

healthy and to basically deliver on all the potential. And then he opts out and you don't have anything to show for that. That's still a few years away. I think maybe it's a little too early to be thinking that way. What about this? What about him with an awesome lineup in the American League? Yeah, that would be great. But if you're an American League team- What about him surrounded by bats? What about him and Fenway?

Let me throw this to you, though. Yeah. If you're the Red Sox or the Yankees, because that's who we're talking about, right? Red Sox or Yankees, yes. Well, I would say the Astros as a stealth contender just because they have a lot of prospects. They do. They have the farm system to get it done.

They could put together the best trade. Yankees have traded some guys. The Red Sox have traded most of their guys. The Astros lineup is so good, though. I was talking about this with Jeff Chow earlier. I mean, Altuve, Correa. Obviously, Correa's hurt right now and Springer's been banged up. Those three plus everyone they have around them,

I don't know if it's worth giving up the prospects to get Stanton. So that's what I was just going to say to you. We're one year away from Harper and Machado being free agents. One year away. And you're probably talking about $400 million, certainly for Harper, I think probably still for Manny, instead of $300 million. That's not insignificant, certainly. But if you don't have to give up any players,

why don't you just wait a year and go after one of those guys instead? They're both more valuable. If you're Houston, though, and you have a chance to win the World Series and you've actually overachieved considering how many injuries you've had, and they've had all of their best guys have been hurt, basically. Right? I mean, the pitching injuries for them are concerning. A couple of them are on my fantasy team.

Yeah. If Keiko McCullers aren't healthy in the playoffs, they're screwed. You traded me McCullers in League of Dorks. Yes, I did. And he immediately fell off a cliff. Yeah. But I also traded you Machado and he's been hitting 800 since then. So you're welcome.

But that was the only way to save his season by trading him away. I know. I feel like I performed my mitzvah by freeing him. But if you just flip Stanton with Beltran in that lineup, that's suddenly the scariest team. I think the Red Sox can catch them. And as you know from our Slack, I'd written off the Red Sox season, but I go through this process. That's the part you don't understand. I have to hit a point with the Red Sox season every year where I just go all in on thinking that they have no chance. Yeah. As you know, I saved some of those slacks so that I could send them back to you

now that they're comfortably in the division lead. I didn't realize the best Red Sox rookie in 40 years was going to just show up and randomly start doing triple plays and take Chapman opposite field for 103 miles an hour. He's incredible. Who saw? He's incredible. Do triple plays and take Chapman opposite field for 103 miles an hour. He's incredible. Who saw? He's incredible. But that's the thing. You don't want to part with him.

You don't want to part with Devers for Stanton. You're not going to say goodbye to Betts or Ben Tendi. If you're the Marlins, you have to demand a player of that caliber. You have to. So I asked you that. I asked you, Bauman, and Lindbergh. Devers is not only is he untouchable, I think there would be a riot if they traded him. I actually really do think there'd be a riot.

Benintendi, they can't trade either. The way he's hit in August, and he's potentially a 30 for 30 guy year after year for 10 years. Who knows? But he's coming on. You can see it. Betts is overqualified for this trade. But on the other hand, I think he's a couple years away from really getting paid.

You could argue Stanton's an upgrade. I wouldn't do it. But if I were the Marlins, that's what I want. I'm like, I want one of those three guys. Stanton's not the same caliber fielder and he can't run. And he has to stay healthy. Betts is an incredible right fielder, especially in Fenway, which had mixed results in right. That matters there. Yeah.

That said, I mean, does Stanton hit 75 home runs over the monster? That's kind of the other. Yeah. There is a way to view this, just only focus on that and say sort of what else matters. I mean, the money is a lot though, and he doesn't stay healthy. Two months's the thing here's the thing two or three months ago i can't remember exactly when limberg and bauman did an episode of the mlb show the ringer mlb show where they discussed whether any team would potentially even want to trade for stanton whether his contract had become such an albatross and his play was so subpar compared to what people expected that that was months ago not

seasons ago baseball is cyclical like it's very easy in the moment to overreact to the current state affairs that of course is an argument for the marlins trading him to say this is it we we go now he's never going to have more value than when he's on pace to cross 60 home runs i mean how many that's happened what Eight times in baseball history ever. That's a big deal. And you could argue you might actually even be better. If he was able to DH half the time and he was surrounded by lineups, he wasn't an NL where they can do all these.

Has, has Jeff told you his idea? What was it? That the Nats should trade for Stan and they should trade Harper for Stan. Oh, because if they're not going to re-sign him, get him away now. Get out now. Well, explain this to me. How does he get through waivers?

Well, Stanton already got through waivers. That's what I mean. How does Stanton get through waivers? Because no one wants that contract. So if no one wants that contract, why do I have to give up Mookie Betts for him? Because smart ownership would demand it. Smart ownership would demand it. The only way for the Marlins to play this, if they want to sell it to the fan base

and position the franchise for improvement, you're not in a bad spot if you have Giancarlo Stanton on your team, no matter what you're paying him. They have to eat some of the money. They have to make the contract palatable for whoever's acquiring it. That's the only way they're going to get the prospects in return that they would need to

get to justify the deal to the fan base. It's a tough one. If the Red Sox, you know, obviously traded two of their three best prospects for Chris Sale, who's one of the best pitchers I've ever watched in my life. He's incredible. I would do that trade again. He's incredible. He's going to have over 300 strikeouts, which I didn't even know was conceivable anymore.

He's amazing. So that trade was great, but that was also who we would have had for Stan. We're going to call my dad in a second because I want to get his take. But first, ZipRecruiter, are you hiring? We happen to be hiring. You handle all, you've hired, your intern success rate with interns that you've hired is your greatest skill. Tate, right here. My greatest achievement. I think you

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All right. Let's call my dad. All right. My dad's on the line there. Let's do it. Let's see what happens. All right, let's call my dad. All right, my dad's on the line. Mallory's still here. Dad, we were talking about whether the Red Sox should trade for Giancarlo Stanton, formerly Mike Stanton, who's on pace for about 65 homers. A, would you be interested?

I've always been interested in Stanton. B, the Marlins say, we'll do it, but we have to get Devers, Benintendi, or Mookie Betts. Are you still interested? Or, you mean one of the three? One of the three. Yes. Whoa! Oh!

What's the power ranking of who you're most willing to say goodbye to? Well, he'll never say goodbye to Devers. He likes Devers more than his grandson, who's coming to see him this week. Is it even between the grandson and Devers? No, my grandson is ahead of Devers. He's 1A. My dad just sent me excited texts about Devers. Like yesterday, he's like, Devers had a triple play.

He was out of his mind. He's amazing. Well, that's because you and I talked about him on a podcast before he came up and we were all excited about it and I think we were partly responsible. Well, I remember the first year I fell in love with baseball in

1975, we got to watch Fred Lynn, Rookie of the Year and MVP. By the way, Mallory doesn't happen very often. The Rookie of the Year and the MVP the same year. Looks like Judge might have a shot at it. Judge has a shot on that. He's in a funk. I think he's fallen out of it.

Ben and Tenny's coming, kind of breathing down his neck a little. Devers is, well, you watch every Red Sox game, Dad. Give us your Devers scouting report. It's similar to what we talked about when he was just getting going. The ball just shoots off his bat like you rarely see on other players. And the player we compared him to was Beltre on Texas. He's also a much better fielder than I think they gave him credit for. I mean, not just that triple play that was so exciting,

but he's basically made every play. I mean, he's had a couple of, maybe one or two errors, but he's looked very confident out there. And he's, you know, they put him fifth in the batting order in the middle of a pennant race. And he looks, he's happy. He's smiling out there. He's a very happy guy. Yeah. It's funny when they brought him up. It was like six days before the trade deadline and that season was falling apart. It felt super desperate. And they're like, let's try this guy.

We've tried nine other third basemen. Red Sox fans were disappointed when the Yankees pulled off the Todd Frazier trade. We were. And it was like, why? I wasn't. I wasn't. He was. True believer the whole time. He was. I wasn't. I, I, uh, I hope they would bring up Devers. I mean, I was watching his minor league numbers. They, they consistently were up there and, um, why not? I mean, plus he infused. That team was flat.

If you watch them in the dugout, particularly in the games where they weren't playing that well, it was a flat team. They really missed the enthusiastic, you know, what was going on when Ortiz was in that dugout. And Devers and Nunez have kind of revitalized that whole dugout. Yeah. We had no idea Nunez was this good. Yeah. He's having an incredible career season.

It's amazing that they're not getting more energy and clubhouse leadership from Price and Sale. Who saw that coming? Well, Sale's a prodigy. We just leave him alone. He's over there. Keep him away from the scissors. No, there's no prodigy. We just leave him alone. He's over there. Keep him away from the scissors. No, there's no complaints about sale whatsoever. He's amazing. He's a quiet leader. Quiet leader.

He's not an ortean kind of leader. He doesn't make a peep when he's shredding the jerseys with sharp objects. Quiet leader. Listen, he acts out every once in a while. We'll put up with it. Yeah, I'm fine with him. Price is a whole different story. You know, they set him back again today.

It seems like he takes two steps forward, one step back. So who knows if we're going to see him again this year. My dad was especially upset because Price, you know, embarrassed a man in his 60s. So my dad is in his sixties. He found a certain kinship with poor Dennis Eckersley who got humiliated in front of the team. It's not just a man in his sixties. Eckersley had a 24 year major league career.

He's in the hall of fame and Price has not paid his dues. Yeah. You know, it made no sense. So Dever's untouchable. Benintende untouchable? He is for dues. Yeah. You know, it made no sense. So Dever's untouchable. Benintende untouchable? He is for me. Yes. Yeah.

Wow. He's untouchable. So you're willing to say goodbye to Betts. It does sound like that a little bit. Well, again, you have to give up something important to get something important. And I think outfielders are somewhat easier to find than a power hitter like Stanton. And we have nobody in the minor leagues who is basically called a power hitter.

So yeah, I'd certainly make that trade. I'm not sure Miami would make that trade one-to-one. Probably depends on how much of the salary the Red Sox were willing to eat in that case. I think Miami would do that. Very good point. The salary is... Maybe they could make it a two-for-two trade. And it could be

bets and price. And we could match up salaries. First of all, I can't wait for the next five to seven years to make fun of you for the fact that you just traded Milky Betts, who's just been an unbelievable Red Sox player. I traded him for Stanton. I mean, don't throw that out in a vacuum.

Well, I mean, he's been a great Red Sox player. He has the postgame celebration. I feel like he created that with the outfielders when they did the little bow kick thing. Would you have considered losing Betts this time last year? Or is this just because he's having a weird, by his standards, subpar season?

That's a real good question. And Stanton was hurt last year. Probably I would have given a different answer. That's a good point. My dad still hasn't forgiven bets for the first inning of the Cleveland playoff series. When we're about to,

who is that pitcher? We're about to knock out Trevor Bauer. It was, and bets was up and it was like one more hit. Bauer's out. We win the game. And bets had a terrible at bat. My dad still from that moment on,

he's had a little bit of an extra grind. Tough series. You know, a year ago, if you ask me the question, we had Ortiz hitting over 30 homers. We were hitting a lot of home runs. This team has very little power. So can you imagine adding a guy who already has 42 home runs to this lineup?

See, that's what, if they can get him without giving up any of those three guys, whatever else needs to happen, I would do. How does that happen? I don't know. You're just taking yourselves out of the Harper Machado free agency class. Yeah, so, Dad, Mallory. At that point, because of the contracts. Mallory thinks you got to,

that the Red Sox should wait until the Harper Machado. Try for Harper. I mean, I don't think Manny and the Red Sox are a mix at this point. I'll tell you, my dad doesn't like Manny Machado. There's been some bad blood think Manny and the Red Sox are a mix at this point. I'll tell you, my dad doesn't like Manny Machado. There's been some bad blood with Manny and the Red Sox. Yeah, you don't like Manny. I mean,

might even be out for the season. I'm not sure the Boston crowd wants Machado coming in here after knocking out Pedroia probably for the year. Yeah, he definitely hurt Pedroia and everybody pretended that wasn't related, but now it's clearly he...

Enough of this. We think Pedroia has some sort of really bad... Yeah, you know, he's old. Something. When you're old, your knees stop working, especially when you're playing middle infield. He was pretty good this season, but it's a little alarming that the team's gotten better since he disappeared from the lineup. It's a coincidence, but...

Wait a minute. Three weeks ago, we weren't saying that because we had nobody to play second base. Now we have Nunez, and he's really hot. He gets two hits every game, and nobody's talking about Pedroia's injuries. So, you know, it goes in waves depending on who's in here. We made two great acquisitions.

One acquisition, one call-up. And it's allowed us to ride through the Pedroia injury and a couple of other people being in slumps like Betts. We did. Those two trades were really, really great considering they didn't give up anybody because they didn't really have any prospects left to give up. Yeah, the Nunez thing looks great.

Mallory hates all the Boston teams, just for the record. Dad, we want to talk Game of Thrones really quickly. I love that shock. The shock in the voice. The Boston fans can never believe that anyone hates the Boston teams.

I'm really enjoying my Twitter show of Game of Thrones to better help me understand what I just watched each Sunday night, by the way. That's great. So tell us what you think is happening. Well, the house is adwindling.

And I think what I think what I think is happening because what do they have seven nine more shows is that Jon Snow has a twinkle in his eye when he looks at the dragon mama and I find that real interesting

there's certainly some attraction there she's his aunt. Does that bother you? That she's his aunt? I wish I hadn't found that out. But, you know, things happen in that strange world. You can't judge the incest in Game of Thrones.

It's like second degree incest. Unless they're going to have children, does it really matter? Well, they have to have children. She had dragons already. You can't get any crazier than that that's the question is whether danny can have children actually she doesn't think she can interesting probably love to marry a younger man who was a nephew don't you think is it a first nephew or is it like a second or third nephew? John is Danny's older brother's son. Oh, that's really tight then. That's a problem. Well, yeah, a little bit,

but we also have two main characters who are brother and sister who had three children together. That's right. That's right. They're still going strong. Yeah. Four might be in the way. There's a fourth one in the oven. That's right. That's right. And they're still going strong. Yeah. Four might be in the way. There's a fourth one in the oven. That's right.

I forgot that. Dad, if, um, if you were being, if Danny was introducing you to the dragon, like she did with Jon Snow, Mallory and I talked about this earlier, what would be your move to approach the dragon? Um, I think I would have done, I would have, I think I would have done almost exactly what John Snow did it's how I approach I just took the two dogs, our two dogs for a walk

we came across what seemed to be a hopefully friendly dog I always take the back of my hand and rub the nose area something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

So Mallory talked me into that move. I would have gone under the chin though. Cause you can either go nose or you go under the chin. Cause I don't think the dragons get enough rub under the chin. I think that's a better move. I'd rather be rubbing so that the mouth was closed. Cause I don't want that mouth opening. Right.

Great point. You rub under the chin. Maybe he makes a mistake and there's a little bit of fire that comes shooting out. Dad, how do you feel about Tyrion, the little guy? Some bad advice this year. Brutal. He's had a rough year. Yeah.

And it's not intentional. I think he's just making some bad judgment, some bad mistakes. And he seems, it certainly was apparent in the last show, he's losing the confidence of the queen, don't you think? Yeah. Which worries me, because the other thing that was obvious was that when he walked from the battlefield, he seemed astonished and a little bit ashamed of what had happened. Right.

Yeah. I mean, those are, those are the men who served his family. You know, those are, those are either family members or people who were sworn to his house. And for all the bad blood between him and his father and his siblings,

ultimately that's a lot of history to just literally watch burn in front of your eyes. And I think he's the, the way the way his face looked as Danny was standing up in front of Drogon and demanding that the soldiers in front of her bend the knee. You saw sincere concern and I think almost fear on his on his face. And he begged her, send them to the wall. Let them take the black. Don't do this. And the conversation that he had with Varys when Varys said,

you need to get her to chill. All of these people lived through the Mad King's reign. They know who Danny's father was. Right. And so there's a blueprint for how badly this can go and how quickly. Yeah. I also, I lost faith in him when he told Dave Dombrowski to trade Mookie Betts for Giancarlo Steele. Oh no, that was my dad. My dad was the one that came up with that. My bad.

I didn't ask the question back. I know we moved on to Game of Thrones, but would you, would you make that trade? No, I like, I like watching the three guys. I don't want them to break up the three guys.

I'm good with the three guys for the next 10 years. My son loves all three of them. I'm good. Your son's a Dodger fan. No, my son is a Red Sox fan. Stop it. Dad, what do you think about the sisters? And you're the same guy that didn't want to trade Garnett and Pierce to the Nets.

So you want to keep the status quo. That's not true. I'm willing to move forward to progress when I heard we got the pick swap I was all in it was the two picks I wasn't in but when we got the third one I was excited dad what about the sisters Sansa and Aria

seems like a little tension there there is there was tension as I binge watched 60 shows in about a week there was tension when I binge-watched 60 shows in about a week. There was tension when they were young, too, though. I mean, they're very—Mallory, I think, made the point in her show last week. They're very different people.

They have different interests. And there's an age difference as well. But the guy I really dislike, and I know everybody else seems to dislike him too, is the guy who seems to be influencing Sonser more and more, Littlefinger, who I think is famous. Littlefinger, yeah. Something's gone. Don't you think there's a plot being developed there that none of us are going to like? Yes. Well, I hope we like it, actually, because I think that there's a chance that he's finally miscalculated. And that his entire character through the full six seasons up to this point of the show was basically, keep them guessing.

Always stay one step ahead. Like someone can't even know that they're your enemy. That's the only way to be effective. And we rarely had a front row seat to watch his plan unfold in real time. We often came to understand what he had done after the fact or secondhand. And watching him now, the question is, is he still outsmarting all of us or has he gotten desperate? Because he can't go back to Cersei after openly declaring for the Starks, after bringing the Knights of the Vale to their aid in the Battle of the Bastards. This is it for him. He's completely tethered to Sansa. And he wants to be, right?

He's in love with her. Or at least that's how it seems. He was in love with her mother. He's not in love with anything more than power, though. And so to him, genuine affection and feelings for Sansa aside, she is still ultimately a tool upon a path to something else. Control of the North. And so when Arya and Bran came home, that was a threat to his proximity to having Sansa's ear. And so he needs to drive a wedge between them. And that's presumably what he's trying to do with the scroll that we saw Arya find in his room. You

know, we know because he was watching creepily from the shadows, watching Arya come out of the room, that he wanted her to find that. And I just really hope, as someone who has invested a good portion of my life in believing in Arya and loving Arya, that she's smarter than that. Especially after going through assassin's training in Braavos and learning how to suss out lies and deceptions, and of course learning how to kill people, that she'll be able to choose the right side there and that she will not actually turn on Sansa.

But obviously the show is planting those seeds because she's already expressing concern for how Sansa is conducting herself. Couldn't she pull some shape shifting, though? She's yeah. Slap a face on. Just put it. Just put a face on and try to pretend she's Littlefinger for six hours. And she has his dagger now.

I would love the poetry of Arya killing Littlefinger with his own dagger. That would be beautiful to me. Beautiful. Yeah. Well, there hasn't been a main character killed. There wasn't one killed in the last show, right? No. Right. Not unless you're a huge fan of Dickon Tarly. Dickon, yeah. Poor Dickon died. That was too bad. I mean, I know there's a dead

person's pool of who's the next person to go. It's going to be interesting. Personally, I hope it's Littlefinger. Yeah, me too. He's becoming more and more part of the major focus of where this seems to be added between the two sisters. So I'm not sure. What's more realistic?

Ari and Sansa. Sansa, one of them, they turn on each other, one of them goes. Or Jamie and Cersei, one of them turns on the other and one of them goes. What would your bet be? Or both. Or C, both. My bet would be Aria goes. Oh.

That's the poor, yeah. What? Yeah. What? I don't see it. I think she takes out Sansa I just can't I can't

you do yeah or one of the one of those two not like oh no I can't see Jaime going yet

I hope he doesn't I like him I like I like three of those four people he loves Jaime yeah I love Jaime too

I think the Sansa thing they've set up is that she's a little more like Cersei than everyone wants to admit. That Cersei DNA got splashed on her when she went through that whole world. And it's just, there's a little bit in there. Arya's going to sniff that out and take her out. Well, she has been through a lot. Yes.

I mean, when you think back. Yes, she has. Her marriage didn't go so well. It wasn't a great marriage. Well, at least the one with Tyrion didn't get consummated. Well, that's true. Actually, three relationships haven't

gone that well, right? That's right. Never forget Joffrey. I think that ultimately, because this is still in many ways a story about the Starks, Arya and Sansa have to be able to find common ground and rally. I, for years, years,

have thought that Jaime will kill Cersei. It's one of the beliefs I hold most sacred and dear. This episode was a huge wrench in that theory because he, if she is actually carrying his child, that would be,

there's no redemption for him after that if he takes her out while she's carrying his child and jamie's redemption arc is one of the single coolest things about the entire story it's like a master stroke of storytelling to be able to take someone who was basically evil incarnate in the pilot and make him somebody that this many people care about this deeply that's incredible and extremely rare he's my He's my favorite incest character ever. But here's the thing. Let me ask you both this. What if Cersei's not carrying his baby?

What if it's Euron's? I'm just going to ask. What if it's Euron's? Would that be enough? Euron stepped in? Would that be enough to drive Jaime to the ultimate betrayal, killing her? Yes, it would. It would be enough to drive me.

So I'd support Jamie in that endeavor. Mallory, you've talked to Andy Greenwald, Chris Ryan, and Jason Concepcion at the same time about Thrones. You've talked about Jason. You did 65 episodes. Father and Son Simmons is really your Game of Thrones highlight. I can see the sheer delay. This was meaningful for me.

It really was. This was meaningful for me. All I had to do was add a wolf that just walked in halfway through the conversation. Number one, finding out that Liana Stark is John's mom. Number two, doing this podcast with you guys. Number three, seeing ghosts on screen. When the phone rang and you said Mallory's on the phone, I thought that we were not going to be talking sports. I thought it was all going to be Game of Thrones. Well, then you traded Mookie Betts, so I had to switch topics.

Dad, enjoy Fenway Park with my son tomorrow. What an emotional day. I hope the rain doesn't come that they're forecasting. No, it can't rain on my son's first Fenway Park game. That's not happening. I hope not. All right. Say hi to everybody for me.

All right. All right. Nice chatting with you, Mallory. You too. All right. Mallory. That's not happening. I hope not. All right. Say hi to everybody for me. All right. Nice chatting with you, Mallory. You too. All right. Mallory. That was great. I don't know how we topped that. That was special. Thanks again to Simply Safe. Summer winding down. It's the perfect time

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Only two left. Then I guess we got to talk about Harry Potter or something. Oh my God. Don't tempt me. Don't tempt me. Don't tempt me. I love it. Talk to Thrones.

Hashtag Talk to Thrones Sunday nights. And then football's coming. That's right. Baseball playoffs. What's funny is September and October is usually the time that I was worried the most about your mental health. Yeah.

And now I've just been worried the last like four months. So this will almost be like a refreshing or refreshing jaunt in the park once we just get into football and college football. A refreshing October. What a novel idea. Can't wait. I'm excited to watch the baseball playoffs

with my son for the first time. That's really awesome. Seriously. He actually genuinely seems like he's baseball playoffs with my son for the first time. That's really awesome. Seriously. He actually genuinely seems like he's going to care. So that'll be fun. That's so cool. It's a whole different level of whatever. Don't forget, Rewatchables, The Departed, and House of Carbs.

Joe House and I recapped our LA trip. Subscribe to those podcasts as well. And the newly relaunched theringer.com. Great site. Beautiful. You're allowed to do with that. It looks beautiful. It's great. We finally have a nice looking site. It's great. relaunched TheRinger.com. Great site. You're allowed to do with that. It looks beautiful. We finally have a nice looking site. It's great. Please come to TheRinger.com. It's great. So much.

Thanks everybody. Enjoy the weekend. I don't have a few years with him on the wayside on the front side of the road I don't have