The Bill Simmons Podcast - Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Rob Mahoney to react to Thunder-Nuggets Game 6 and preview a must-win Game 7 on Sunday (2:06). Then, they discuss whether or not the Celtics have a chance to take Game 6 against the Knicks (35:12). Finally, they talk about the Timberwolves and their chances in the WCF (51:39). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Rob Mahoney Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo This episode is brought to you by Degree Deodorant. Grab the original Cool Rush at Walmart or Target today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available in this and then episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and President Select States, game prom called Win 800 Gamble or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, Nuggets, thunder, headed to a game seven. I'm talking about the Rob Mahoney along with a lot more basketball. Next.

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We had a OKC in Denver. It's headed to a game seven, Celtics Knicks on Friday night. And then if that's a game seven, that's going to be in Boston on Monday. So no Saturday game for us. I guess we're just going to have to watch movies. You can watch close encounters. Uh, I talked to Rob Mahoney. We did it live on YouTube and we had a great time, uh, talking about

Ken Yocage, keep this going. Can OKC hold on lots of great basketball storylines. Robbed through some water on me with the Celtics game six. It's all next. First our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're live on YouTube. Bill Simmons here with Rob Mahoney, the studio episode nine. So I really liked what they, oh wait, what podcast is this? Uh, talk of basketball. We got a seventh game.

We get one more Yoke-Age game. We do. We get OKC versus Denver, which has been an absolutely awesome, awesome series. I felt myself getting sad in the first half when OKC started to pull away. And I was like, oh man, what a journey this has been with Jokic with this weird team and his teammates that are either hurt or they don't show up, then they're good again, then they're not good. And he's the one constant. And I guess this is how it's going to end. And then it flips. It's a borderline Strother game, but not really. There's some Murray in there. There's some Jokic. There was some heroes.

Russell Westbrook, not a hero. No, no. I think we can give Julian Strother credit for this one as the Julian Strother game. You're going Strother, because yesterday was clearly the Luke Cornett game. Yeah, maybe not quite that extreme, but the desperation for Denver,

and we saw this in game five, they just needed somebody who could hit a couple of shots and they would have probably pulled out that game or at least made it even more competitive. Him coming up with basically a solo run in the most competitive tenses part of this game just cannot be, cannot be overstated the importance of that. And as you're saying, Russell Westbrook did have the kind of performance where he almost lost this game. Like he played poorly enough for extended stretches that it legitimately swung the kind of performance where he almost lost this game.

He played poorly enough for extended stretches that it legitimately swung the momentum of it. And if Denver had to stretch his minutes or his importance even more because Julian Strother wasn't playing well enough, because Michael Porter Jr. didn't hit a couple of shots, it could be having a very different mood right now for this pod. Well, it's funny. Strother was basically the bizarro Westbrook. Westbrook in the first half felt like he swung the game.

At one point I looked, he had played, this is in the second half, he played seven minutes, he was minus 14 and it felt worse. Strother came in and it felt like he played seven minutes and he was like plus 84. Um, but that, so it all balanced out, but this is the problem with Denver. You get past the top three and I have no idea who's showing up. Like game five, it was basically those three guys and that was it. And Brown has been, I think really good in the playoffs has been a little shakier offensive with this series, but, um, you just don't know what you're getting. So Strother, do I trust he's going to do that in OKC in game seven?

I don't, but weirdly OKC has the same issue where they're dying for somebody to have a little three minute run. Right? They don't know. It was Isaiah Joe for a while, but it feels like he's kind of gotten nudged out. And you know, weirdly sometimes it can be Caruso just kind of as a two way guy. For sure. But they're not getting that wild card.

So so much is on SGA and Jalen Williams and then Jalen Williams stunk tonight. That's the thing. I would even set it up differently where it's like if JDub isn't performing, then you now need three wild card players to do well. And so yeah, you get a good Kacen Wallace stretch in the second quarter. You're getting some good Alex Caruso minutes, but like when it comes down to it, not enough guys can hit shots. You know, you don't get the same like Lou Dort streak.

You don't have the same like Chet cashing in on his three. Like enough of those plays have to swing in your favor to win a game like this. And JDubb just straight up for a player of his caliber, an all NBA caliber guy in the regular season, wasn't good enough to win this game. And that happens sometimes. It certainly happens with players who are as young as he is,

but it's a reality of Oklahoma city situation. That was the number one thing we were worried about with OKC in the playoffs. Yep. Is your second guy ready yet? You know, and you go through the history of the league and the second guy has to be a little more consistent than he's been, but, um, I, there's so many ways to go here. Do you think less at OKC because it's taken seven games to beat this pretty

flawed Denver team that's built around one transcendent, one of the great playoff players of all time at this point? Or so that's door A door B. These are the two best teams in the league. And if OKC gets through this, we're smooth sailing after this. I mean, I don't think it's either of those doors. Give me a door C. I mean, door C, the Nuggets are really good.

And yes, they have question marks beyond the top three or four guys, but those top three or four know what they're doing, know how to play together, know how to find like all of the inroads to playoff success. And so like, this feels like a very natural graduation point for Oklahoma City. Like they're either gonna be able to beat a team like that or they're not. And they're either gonna be able to overwhelm a team like that or they're not.

And I thought there were stretches of this game where you could see the Thunder's completely mucking up Denver's pace of play, the flow of their offense, disrupting their defense by extension. Like all the pieces were there during that run you were talking about. And then the Nuggets just like reeled it back in, one Julian Strother bucket at a time, an incredible Jamal Murray third quarter that I thought like they do not win this game without

it. And ultimately, like they have a calm and a patience that is really hard to manage against the way Oklahoma City plays defense. Like this is a frenetic defensive front with a lot of activity that can force a lot of turnovers. And until the Nuggets briefly lost their collective minds down the stretch of the fourth quarter, where they were just turning the ball over every possession, they were actually winning the turnover battle in this game.

And it's like, if that's what the bulk of the game is going to be, Denver is going to win. And I don't think that reflects poorly on the Thunder, just to say, like, they have to be able to match that level of precision in a game seven. That's what makes OKC one of the many things that makes them so weird as a great team. Normally teams have runs and it's with threes, especially in the modern NBA. It's like, Oh my God, 12 Oh run, four threes. And OKC it's all defense related, four steals in a row for OKC.

They've all turnovers and transition points. And that's kind of how they come back in games with their defense. I'm still not positive they know who their five guys should be down the stretch. And I'm also not sure it matters. But you think like game five. I mean, think about, think about it this way. If Dort doesn't get hot for three minutes in game five, and if Jalen Williams doesn't make that shot on the left side, that I still can't believe went in.

Those two events, Denver wins, and now we have this game six where I think we probably get the same result. Maybe so. Now we're going back for game seven. This is like the kind of series that I grew up with and you grew up with too. Like this is a classic 1980s.

We go back and forth, we go back and forth. Okay, here we go, game seven. This is like CBS 1987. Dun-da-da-da, dun-da-da, dun-da-da-da, dun-da-da. Denver came back in game six. We're just doing it, we're playing all the hits, and then OKC, they gut it out, they advance, and we talk about what an important series this was for their growth, they had to get over the hump.

So it's all the makings of that. And yet Yoko is just so great. I just, I just don't want to play him if it's one game. They have two days rest until Sunday and he's probably going to play what? 43 minutes, 44 minutes. I doubt you can't. They did it today where they, Legler, who I thought was fantastic today, I really think he's, he's the best TV analyst we have at this point. And he was talking about even to get him an extra minute and a half in the fourth quarter was so huge.

Like think how stupid that is. It's like, Oh, we're able to not bring them back in until the eight minute mark instead of the nine 30 mark. But that's like how important he's become now where you feel like if you can get to eight minutes in the fourth quarter, it's like a fucking miracle. But that's like how important he's become now where you feel like if you can get to eight minutes in the fourth quarter it's like a fucking miracle yeah but that's who he is and that's where that Nuggets team is. I wonder if we'll see more of that from the Thunder too in game seven I mean obviously it's a season on the line game everyone's gonna play a little bit more

but relative to this one yes there were a couple Thunder players who were in foul trouble and that shook up the rotation I also thought Mark Dagnall in general was just like trying a bunch of very different stuff from what Oklahoma City usually does. They played some lineups that were smaller than they ever play. They were some lineups with Jaylen Williams. Jay Will is the only big on the court, which they very rarely, if not never do effectively in competitive games. Stuff that we just like have not seen from them in the playoffs, including some shorter stints for their key guys, where they were pulled in and out quickly

to get a quick blow, to get a quick rest. I'm kind of wondering from a coaching staff perspective for them, if they're thinking, we can trust our decision-making a little better if these guys are a little better rested, but in doing so, you're trading off some minutes for really good players, and you're trading them for guys who are a little flawed,

who are gonna have some streaky shooting or some bad turnover problems. And I think those chickens kind of came home to roost for the Thunder a little bit. Well, they had the SJ gets the fourth foul right near the end of the first half. It's a terrible foul. Really? Like really, really? Like even Carl Anthony Towns was like, wow, I can't, wow, I can't believe that. So they play him the first five minutes of the third quarter

and then he pulls him. Cause he knows, I just want to get, I'm glad I got that five minutes, but then he doesn't play the last seven minutes of the third quarter and you really felt it on OKC. That's where it's like, nobody they have is really ready to run an offense in a game like that was that important for Denver for seven minutes.

And if you're talking about like whatever happens to them, I still think they're going to win the title. But if they don't, probably the thing they're going to look at is who can come off the bench and be somebody who can actually create a little offense. Like almost like Isaiah Joe as a lead guard type of person. I don't even know what that means. I don't even know who that is.

But like what the Celtics have with Peyton Pritchard, where he can come in and be like, oh, he might take some shots and he'll dribble and he'll push the pace and he's a change of pace. They don't really have anybody like that. So it all falls on Jalen Williams. And when he's bad, then what do you do? Yes. I think Jalen Williams, like he has elements and stretches.

And even in this game, like he ends up with 10 assists. Like this is a good playmaking game for Jalen Williams overall. He's still critical in cracking that like first line of defense specifically when Denver is zone. Like he's a really important part of that equation. And yeah, when Shea's off the floor, obviously he's your go-to guy for all of that creation.

It just would be a little easier as you're saying, if you had a back court counterpart who was a little bit more comfortable with the ball in their hands. Just a little bit. And you can do, if you had a backcourt counterpart who was a little bit more comfortable with the ball in their hands. Just a little bit. And you can do, you know, you can put Caruso in some of those spots as kind of a trigger man, but he's not a traditional attacking ball handler,

at least you kind of don't want him to be. Kason Wallace, who again, I like a lot, can get a little fast and loose with the passing and his handle sometimes. You just start looking around their backcourt rotation, and it's a lot of guys who you trust in certain moments you trust in certain roles but there's a reason why she has the ball in his hands a lot and one is because he's really good at it and two is because they're just like are not a ton of ball

handling alternatives as a primary initiator and it doesn't matter when you're up 20 and you're up 15 which is where they've been the whole season and you know odds I didn't look at what the line is, but odds are they're going to be like eight, nine, 10 point favorites somewhere in there. And yet, Yocage, the Yocage stuff. So I was looking at his this year, last year and 23, the total year. So now it was this 45 playoff games for him. Pretty big sample size, 45 playoff games, 29 points a game, 13 rebounds a game, nine assists a game.

This is for 45 playoff games. What does he have today? 29, 14, and eight. Round of the money. So it's like, whoa, Jokic had a good game. It's like, nah, it's typical Jokic playoff game at this point. Made his free throws down the stretch,

which was something that was getting a little shaky there for a couple of games in general. It just feels like they played a ton. I, it feels like they play twice as many playoff games as everyone else in the NBA, like these, it just, every single game feels like it has this extra weight to them and it's do or die and it's down the stretch and Yoko just seems exhausted and nothing has been easy. That Clippers series was a nightmare until game seven.

And then this series, you know, I'm sure they're kicking themselves about game five. That's if they go home for the summer, game five is the one. We're just gonna be like, really, Lou Dort? I mean, the thunder of theirs too. Like, you know, their Aaron Gordon moments, like their counterbalancing forces in terms of like clutch play or street play.

Like this is the playoffs. That's what happens. Ultimately though, I think you're zeroing in on the right factors for Denver Which is like are they just gonna have the energy reserves to finish this thing out when you'll get everything is so hard for Jokic I wouldn't say he was at any point in this game Exactly picking the Thunder apart. It was more Oklahoma City is deciding They're gonna obviously gonna crowd the lane and put as many bodies around him as possible. They're gonna try to stay attached to Jamal Murray.

And they're basically taking away the Aaron Gordon lob from Jokic. And they're just saying, Christian Brown, Russell Westbrook, Michael Porter Jr., Peyton Watson, Julian Strother in this one, we're just gonna trust that we can rotate out to you fast enough to mess you up, whether it's taking the shot

or putting the ball on the ground. And Denver just won enough of those plays, but it wasn't surgical, it was difficult, it was arduous. Like it's challenging every single step of the way. And they're gonna have to do all of that again. And they're gonna have to do it all again against a team that is younger, that is deeper, that has a little bit to rally,

that will have home court advantage. Like the Thunder have a lot of factors kind of swinging in their favor as this thing goes to seven. And so it's like, you wanna trust the kind of veteran know-how of the Nuggets, but it's kind of hard to with a series that's been this balanced overall. Yeah, especially when OKC is just giving them corner threes like they're free candy in a drugstore. Yeah. Like take one. No, take another one.

You want to drive toward the basket this time? Go ahead. We'll give you that too. They're just packing everything. And that's why the Yoka just, sis totals. I mean, I think he finished with eight today, which is high for the series. A couple of those, like that last one he had to Brown was like the thread, the needle out of nowhere, Larry Bird type pass, but, uh, you know, they, they don't want him to finish with 12, 13, 14 assists. I still feel like he could score even more.

There was a couple of times where he would get the ball at the foul line and he would turn and then he would just kick it out and say, just take Hardenstein. Like you know, you can get that little lob jump hook on him at any time. Um, has this series, I know it's a regular seasonal word. Did you vote for a Yoke-age or SGA? I forget. I voted Yoke-age. Right.

Did this series make you regret anything or feel stronger about your vote? I mean, I know it's playoffs is different than regular season, but to me, it's like, I felt like it really made the cases for both guys, especially game five, but I feel better about the Yoke-age vote. Um, I just, I think he's the best player in 13 years. I think that's the area, like, it is a completely separate award, it is a regular season award, as you said. Those are the criteria.

Part of my criteria in voting for Jokic was, I think he's the best player in the world, and I start from that place, and anyone else I'm gonna vote for instead kind of has to prove overwhelmingly that they are the best player instead, or that they had a superior season instead. I thought she got really close and I couldn't quite get there. But ultimately, like this does confirm that.

Like I think Yoko just been the best player in the playoffs overall. I think he's been the best player in the series overall. Well, him or Julius Randall. It's now possible. One of the two. You know, she had a tremendous game, but I think you, and if anything, I thought him running into the wall in this particular game had much more to do with the fact that his teammates couldn't hit shots. And so all of a sudden you see the crowd

coming in around him. He can't get to the basket anymore. But I thought this was Shea's most successful game, breaking down the defense, getting all the way to the rim. He was pretty relentless in that regard. And I wonder how much of that had to do with, he was kind of holding his right hand for a lot of this game.

It seemed like he injured it or jammed it somehow. We'll have to see kind of what happens with that. And so maybe he was looking to drive more than shoot, but I thought it suited him. I thought he did a really good job with that part of his game, which has not been a given against this Denver defense for a lot of these contests.

Really, really, really, really great scoring guard. I mean, he was 11 for 16 today. Unreal. They were keying on him. He just always takes good shots. It's surprising when he misses. He just has figured out how to navigate all the weird pseudo travel, pseudo carry stuff that people get away with.

He's like one of the best at it. Always is like able to pull off an extra like foot and a half, two feet. I haven't really seen anybody slow him down. You know, Chris Dunn, a tiny bit. Not Chris Dunn. Who'd they play in the last one? I'm blanking. Who was the guy? There was one guy on Memphis that I felt like, I'm blanking. Did anyone on Memphis really slow him down? Maybe nobody. Maybe I'm just hallucinating. I think it was nobody with all due respect to the Grizzlies. Chris Dunn did a, I guess he did a good job on Murray a couple of times until he could make a corner three anymore. Mixing up my series. Let's take a break for the podcast. Fandl's getting you into the action right from the first tip

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Who has the most pressure in this game? Who are you the most worried about? And it smells like victory for all of us. Pressure rankings for game seven. Who has the most pressure in this game? Who are you the most worried about? I think we already answered it. I think it's Jalen Williams. I think so too. And maybe two is Chet. Chet, in what capacity? Guarding Jokic or threes or what?

Just as a third scoring option? I mean, he doesn't really guard Jokic that all that much. Like they want Isaiah Hardenstein on him as much as possible. So for me, it's more can Chet do the right balance of. Finishing like contested finishes inside against other bigs like Jokic, which we saw he kind of struggled with some of that in this game. Will he have opportunities to beat smalls inside who are kind of cross matched against him?

And Denver's gotten away with that for parts of the series overall, like putting smaller guys on him for stretches, whether it's man or zone. And then the threes are gonna be what they are. That's gonna come and go a little bit and you're gonna have to live with that balance. With Chet, it's always like,

where are you finding the other offense? I thought he found enough in this one overall, but a new game is a new day. You're gonna have to do that all over again. You have to run the court and transition and finish as well as you did all over again. Those two guys are such huge variables in a game like this, just because we haven't seen them do it in the way that we've seen Jamal Murray do it before. So you have, I agree with this, Jalen Williams won, Chet too. Then a Denver guy has to be three.

So who's the Denver guy? Probably Michael Porter Jr. Do we, can you have pressure if I'm not expecting anything from you? I would say it's Christian Brown because the threes, what was he on the threes today? He shot quite well from three to six. I feel like if he can hit some threes, now I at least have a semi-fourth guy, right? And Porter is just, I have no idea what I'm getting with him.

I mean, Porter just seems, I feel bad for him because I don't think we knew he was hurt in the Quipper series, at least for a couple games. Now we know, like we're gonna find out after the season. Yeah, we're gonna find out he has like torn ligaments in his shoulder or whatever it is. But it's just too erratic. He's better than he's playing.

He is better than he's playing. I think the trade off is Christian Brown, regardless of whether he's hitting threes or not, will get you cutting baskets, will get you transition baskets, will play great defense, whether it's at the top of that zone or guarding someone like Shea for the majority

of these games, like he's gonna provide value. When Michael Porter Jr. isn't hitting shots, he doesn't provide a lot of value. And you saw some plays where he was just getting not only, you know, like beat on ball, but beat back door, beat in rotation. Like just, they need that. And like Christian Brown, I think to me is there.

Like he's gonna, his offensive contributions are gonna vary a little bit. You have the rock solid top three, then you have whatever you get offensively from Christian Brown. And then it's, how do we string together enough minutes to make this rotation work? And not only did you get good Julian Strother minutes

in this game, I thought you had really good Peyton Watson minutes for stretches, like offensively not exactly what you want, but his block on JDub in transition in the fourth quarter was one of the biggest plays of the game. His, like their collective ability, that group, to survive the non-Yokich minutes at the beginning of the fourth quarter was one of the biggest plays of the game. His like their collective ability, that group to survive the non-Yokich minutes at the beginning of the fourth quarter. Again, a crucial Julian Strother time as crazy as that sounds, unbelievably

important in a game like this. And so the cascading effect to all the other nuggets, those are guys I expect a little less of Michael Porter Jr. kind of like needs to give them 20 to 30 playable minutes. And we're going to see if that's possible for him in game seven or not. I watch a lot of Nuggets. In Westbrook, there can be like he's chest out maniacs

screaming to the crowd Westbrook, or he could be I'm in my own head Westbrook, which we've seen at a lot of different end of the seasons. I don't think he's looked the same the last two games. I'm not even talking about how he's playing. And I really wonder if that Ramona Shelburne story in ESPN was a bad thing for him. Interesting.

Because he's looked the last two games. As you know, I'm the body language doctor. I graduated 1998. Do you have to like recertify your boards or something? No, I just got the diploma and just put it up. It's over there. You're done. Yeah, it's over there.

I just think you should keep up with the most recent research on these subjects. You should have to go to a conference or something. Maybe I should go take a psychology seminar every once in a while. His body language the last two games felt a little last year on the LeBron Lakers-ish to me. Uh oh. Or Clippers playoffish, just a little off the rails and not. I thought one of the cool things about, especially in the Quipper series was he

really, he really brought energy and charisma and personality and passion and seemed like was the teammates were in. You have these stories where you have unnamed teammates taking shots at you. And I don't know that like, he's a human being. Like if you read that or hear about that, about that you all of a sudden you have eyeballs in the back of your head but I thought it was I just think there's a strange vibe to him I don't know if the oak playing an OKC I think that part's also weird where he's you know the most popular OKC pour ever he leaves they

immediately replace him with a more popular player and a better team and you know it seems like he's got, even in the first couple games of the series, I felt like he was really taking that personally. Now he feels more like Clippers series last year, train wreck Russ than additive Russ. The tricky thing with him is like, you want to give him credit and be forgiving

of the energy he plays with. Right, like he is attacking these possessions in ways that is like undeniable. And it is valuable in series like the Clippers one at points in this series as well. But you're seeing a weird tension point with him, specifically with the Thunder where the Thunder want to get out and run so badly and Russell Westbrook wants to both drive and hit the offensive glass so badly. Available. And he's going and he'll miss a lot of those opportunities and great, those are opportunities he's creating

out of thin air with effort, but then he ends up on the ground and two other nuggets are trying to hit the offensive glass and now all of a sudden you have three on one for the Thunder going the other way. And so you have this like push and pull of, yeah, you want those energy and effort plays, but maybe not all the time

and maybe not consecutively, like I think- End of the game was perfect when he broke the press and that was the clinching play of the game basically. That was big. First quarter he comes in and there are like five straight rust possessions. Turnovers, misses. I think you get to the free throw line one of those times.

I swear that's happened 10 times where for 90 seconds, it's the worst 90 seconds you've ever seen in your life. It's like four plays in a row where you're like, oh my God. He had four turnovers and two mislay ups in this game in 16 minutes. You just have to hope that it offsets at some point, right? That the other plays swing the other way

and you get enough good rust to counteract the bad rust, but they're gonna have to ride him regardless. Like he's gonna have to play significant minutes in game seven. He's gonna play a role in game seven. Hopefully he does a little bit better on balance than he did in this one. Because I thought this was a rough Russ performance.

OKC favored by eight in game seven. The case for them in game seven. If we're going to play both sides, almost like how I would do for a football playoff game. Where I'm like, all right, if this team wins, here's how I think it goes. If this team wins, the South's going to go. If OKC wins, Shea will get his 31 to 33. Figure a solid two, very good Jayla Williams game somewhere in there. wins this out, it's going to go. If OKC wins, Shea will get his 31 to 33. Figure a solid two, very good Jay the Williams game somewhere in there.

Chet's probably in the 1911 range. The key with game sevens and you saw it last round, there's always a weird guy. There's a Grant Williams hitting six threes. There's Christian Brown in game seven who just catches fire from three. There's always a role player who has an awesome game. And okay. See, there's a lot more candidates for this than Denver does. I mean, we could pick, you could go Lou Dora, you go Caruso here. You can say Kason Wallace is going to come in and hit five threes.

It could be one of those dudes. They're up by 18 defense kicks in and they're just comfortably ahead. defense kicks in and they're just comfortably ahead. I think if Denver wins, it's the classic. Yocage plays 44 minutes. They have the lead most of the game. They're up seven with, you know, nine minutes left. They're rolling the ball in. He's just killing clock and he does that thing.

Yeah. He's literally the best ever at it of I'm going to kill. I'm just going to shave seconds off this clock even before the 20th. I'm gonna make this a 35 second possession with all the... I think Murray has to come through. I think Brown needs to hit threes. Westbrook needs to be additive, not subtractive. I'm not even gonna say we need a Strother, Watson.

I'm not expecting that. I don't think those guys show up. They need five guys and I think Westbrook has to be one of them. What do you think? Five guys make sense. I could easily see this being a Denver game where only six players for the Nuggets play

considerable minutes, one of them as we said, being Russ in addition to that starting five. On OKC's side, I am fascinated by the J-dub element. I think Crusoe is someone I just don't bet against in games like this Lou Dort I like I really respect the way Lou Dort will fire like he's being challenged to hit shots That's gonna go whichever way it goes whichever way the wind is blowing his confidence though Does not get shaken and I think Oklahoma City needs some of that in this game 7 like you're I think part of the issue With j-dub and Chet both,

you've seen both of those guys over these last two games air ball throughs. Like bad, bad misses. And you've seen a lot of Thunder players up and down the rotation like miss dunks, miss layups, like very makeable stuff for them. Of course, if enough of those plays swing, they're going to win a game like this one. But moreover, they just need guys who are going to have nerves of steel.

I trust Shea in those moments. I trust Luthor and Caruso in those moments. I trust Isaiah Hardenstein in those moments. I think even though Jokic is having a Nikola Jokic series, Ogilmocity just isn't in this at all, I don't think, without Hardenstein playing him defensively the way he is. Wearing him down to the degree that one can has been so important. But like, I think they just need that kind of nerve

that you're gonna get from Jamal Murray. And on the Murray side, like, he almost was a scratch in this game because of an illness. Is Jamal Murray feeling better in 48 hours or is he at the start of something that's gonna get worse in 48 hours? I have no idea.

If I was a coach, I'd plant those. I don't know if I'm getting Jamal today. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Game time. And then Jibal's fine. Okay. He's like, Jibal, he's not going to play. Yeah. Um, I know you said Chet's not guarding Yokich, but I still feel like he's one of the two people guarding Yokich even though he's not really guarding. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, for sure. They're basically double. And Caruso is the other one. And so is three. And then there's the 10 Jalen Williams minutes. So I think, I think Jalen Williams has outkicked his coverage in the series.

That's pretty solid. Yeah. Been a little feisty. Um, one of the things with the game seven, you know, some guys just, they just shrink for the moment. And it usually happens with the younger teams or the role players or like even, I know it wasn't a game six yesterday. It was a game, not a game seven. It was a game five, but the role players can go sideways. Like you have like the strews goes over nine. Sure.

Ty Jerome doesn't look like Ty Jerome anymore. Hey, it's funny. It's funny. Here's some of the dialogue about that. I thought Indiana was just clearly better. And it's like, well, Cleveland had all these injuries. It's like, I don't know. Did they like their role players fell apart?

Were those guys hurt? That part was true. I think Garland was definitely a little hampered, but so they should lose in five and get killed in a couple of the games and just roll over at home and a must win game like that's cause Garland's toe hurt. Like there was way deeper stuff going on with them. And I thought Indiana kind of broke them as the series goes, went along. I think that has to be Denver's goal in Oklahoma city. It's a young team.

Can you break them? Can you make them doubt themselves? Can you be super physical with them? And you have this just monolith at center who needs two guys to stop them at all times? And can he just elevate everybody? Nothing against them. That's definitely the model Yeah, they're like the mental game has to be a huge portion of it for Denver like in the case of a Nuggets win It is wearing them down It is putting enough pressure on the Thunder where they have that second or third quarter swoon where they just go completely off the rails

I just think with okay see that's pretty tough to do generally unless you see kind of, even in this game, like they weren't hitting shots, but I thought they stuck to their process. I thought they kept executing on defense. Like they are who they are for a reason in terms of their dominant regular season. And the Nuggets who they are for a reason

in terms of their ability to pull out series like this. And so I think the Thunder are a tough team to take off the tracks. I think that there are going to be times where yeah, they show their youth more than others. I would be shocked if OKC gets like really shaken up to the point that they just fold. That just doesn't really seem to be in the DNA of this group. You know, when I went to that game for the Cooper series, which was just the best game I've seen in eight years, and the Nuggets came out, it was clearly like a game seven for them. And they had all these things they wanted to do. And one of them was Gordon was just going to really, really attack Kawhi 94 feet and was really aggro physical.

And Yocage was just a maniac yelling at the refs. And I think if they come out that way, I think they can win. I think if Gordon comes out like, I'm taking Jalen Williams out of this game, I think I can get new his head. I think I can bang guys around. I think I can control the boards with yolk age. I think we can get the rebounding advantage. I think we can talk shit.

You get Murray talking shit. I don't know. I even though they were the champs two years ago instead of one year ago, it's, I hate playing teams that have been in a lot of games like this. So this is it. If OKC gets through this, they win the title. Nobody's that, I just don't think anybody stops them if they win this game. I think that's what it is. Like, I'm not sure if Denver is definitively the second best team or not. You know, assuming that Oklahoma City is the best, if these are the top two teams or not, but if Oklahoma City can survive this, then they are unquestionably good enough to win it all. I thought that regardless, I picked them as my choice to win the title coming

in. I maintain that. I think they will pull out game seven, but this is what you got to do to do it. This is nut crunching time of the highest order, a game seven against the Nuggets. And they're going to have to prove it every possible way. Indiana versus OKC, if that ends up being the finals, it's pretty good finals. I love Indiana. I really think they know who they are and I think they're really hard to play.

And I think they're not afraid of anybody. We'll see what happens with that. This episode is brought to you by Coho. Coho makes managing money easy with the top rated financial app that helps your money grow every single day. Earn cash back. Get instant cash advances. Build your credit history. Stop wishing money management was simple because with Coho it already is. Sign up today with code Simmons Coho, K-O-H-O,

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Audible quickly to Celtics next. Yeah. How are you feeling? Tomorrow night. So, you know, I potted with Jacoby right after the game and then I zoomed through the game this morning and it was really interesting how different the Celtics were without Tatum. You know, when you, when you remove like all the points and the fact that he was the best rebounder in the team and he had the ball so much.

How they kind of changed their style to play without him, which I think I realized when I was watching real time, but I didn't really catch until I watched it again. They just played with more pace and it was intentional. There was more cutting. Um, and they did some stuff that I think is bad for the Knicks defensively. Cause I don't think the Knicks, I don't think Towns wants to run back. I don't think he wants to worry about fast breaks and I don't think people, they want to worry about back cutters and all the stuff the Celts were doing.

The, the, the amazing thing though, is I just didn't know Jalen Brown had that game in him. That was awesome. Like basically doing a Tatum impersonation, but a little bit better in some ways, because he brought the ball up faster. I think the biggest fault I think everyone has with Tatum is he's very deliberate. And he'll walk the ball up and he'll just decide what to do. And there'll be eight seconds left in the shot clock and he'll get in the offense. The Celtics yesterday were like, go, go, go, let's go, let's go, let's go.

That was one thing. And then the other thing was Porzingis was just so bad, which we talked about last night. And then you look at the stats for the series and he's played 82 minutes. He's five field goals. He's like a minus 27 for 100 and his rating and he's such luggage that I think just not playing him. I feel bad for him. He's like, Missoula said he can't breathe. Yeah. But he kind of needed to bottom out like this. He needed to be so bad that they had to take him out and they did.

And they benefited immediately from the Luke Cornett minutes. And even if they play Kata, who I think I was talking to my dad about this today, because my dad likes Kata. And Kata is you can only play him against certain teams. But Mitchell Robinson is the type of center that you can play him against. He needs to be against big guys that are near the basket because that's what he's good at. He's got long arms and he can defend the rim. So I think if you replace the poor Zingas minutes with Cornett and a little Kata, they're just better off from a math standpoint and then if they keep playing with pace, you know, then you're putting

at least some pressure on the Knicks, right? Cause the real thing is the Knicks aren't playing well. They're falling behind 14 in every game. I looked it up. Bridges has zero free throws in the series, is shooting 39%. OG hasn't done anything in four games. Townes has two threes the whole series, right? Brunson and Hart and Robinson are the guys playing the best for them, but

they're, the door's open. So if the Celts can play with pace and hang around, maybe, would it, how do you see it? I appreciate you talking yourself into it. I'm not talking myself into it. I'm talking myself into the case for it. Okay. That makes sense. Uh, Kada is not going myself into it. I'm talking myself into the case for it. Okay, that makes sense. Kata is not going to save you. I want to put that off to the side right now.

Over the corpse of Porzingis? I think the answer is neither. I think to me the takeaway from this last game was they just need to be comfortable with some of those smaller looks. Like the three guards plus Jalen Brown plus one of the bigs. That was a pretty successful formula. And so as much as you can stretch those guys out, and that's gonna be a lot of- By the way, Rob, we knew this before the series. That that was gonna be a good lineup. We knew the two bigs maybe was a mistake.

I think it works sometimes, but not others. Not in the series. Yeah, and this is not the time for it, unfortunately. So yeah, I think whoever between Horford and Cornett is kind of better in that moment for the lineups on the floor, that's all great. And then otherwise you're just trying to stretch out the guard minutes as much as you possibly can You're also hoping for another like Derek White explosion Which he's certainly capable of and is just one of the best shooters in the league

so I'm never gonna put that past him but the combination of incendiary Derek White game one of the best two-way games we've seen from Jalen Brown in quite some time. A good Peyton Pritchard game, a great Luke Cornett game. Like that's a lot of ifs that have already been stacked on top of each other. Just, just to get here. Drew holiday second half. Yeah.

Like that the best he's looked in a while. Yeah. They, they had a lot of guys playing really well for sure. But the Knicks have a lot of guys not playing well. And that's the case. It's like, Hey, these guys are trying to give us the series. They keep, they keep, we keep taking 14 point plus leads on them every game. Like, let's just kind of banging home.

Yeah. White's not going to go seven to 13 again. Um, can they patch together? Poor Zingas played 12 minutes. So Cornett's going gonna get those 12 minutes. If he gets in any foul trouble, tired, whatever, then you're looking at Horford. If Horford looks tired, then some K does,

some backup, I think, over Porzingis. Yeah. I think K can just gotta be out of there. I don't think they can win the game unless Jalen plays close to where he was in game five. Yes. I think that's the one necessity. It's incredibly hard to do.

He played with a level of calm and precision that is not a staple of his game. Did you think he had that in him? Because I did not. We've obviously never seen that level of playmaking from him before. This is a career high, so the high watermark is there. But just in terms of the way you approached it, as you described, where there's an urgency to the way he's playing, there's a force to the way he's playing, but he really never felt out of control.

And the Tatum contrast that you highlight, I think, is really interesting because you're right that he can be a little deliberate, and when you're winning, when you're going to titles, when you're having an incredible regular season, that deliberate pace feels like confidence. And when you're frittering away leads or you're blowing these games against the Knicks, it feels a little too delicate. It feels like a little too indulgent in terms of getting the offense set up. Like sometimes you just have to get out there

and play and flow and you have to understand that like with where the Celtics are, they can't leave anything out there. Like they can't leave anything on the floor as far as like options, easy baskets, quick transition, like quick striking plays. They need all of that shit. And so they have to go fast and they have to play some more offensive oriented lineups

relative to the two big stuff that we were talking about. They have to have that sort of Jalen Brown. And clearly he's capable of it, but asking him to do all of that again is a lot. I just want to say that. Well, and to rebound like they did in game five, because that's the other way. The ways this goes wrong is the Knicks control the boards. One of the two guards gets in foul trouble. Bridges, Oren and Obey. Yes.

Catch fire offensively, at least a little bit. I don't know if Townes, the rumor is that his hands hurt and that's why he's not shooting threes, but Townes having two threes and five games in the series is just weird. He was somebody that routinely would have two to four makes in a, in a playoff game and now he doesn't make anything. So, um, and there's, there's a deuce McBride coming in and. I thought that was a really good deuce minutes, honestly. Yeah.

Like, and they, they desperately needed that. He's had some real cold stretches in these playoffs. And so getting some positive momentum for deuce, another team that just like needs rotation players in the worst way. And one of them is Mitchell Robinson, who is in some cases getting fouled off the floor, in some cases going six of six from the line.

We salute you, Mitch. They're just, they're desperate for bodies. Yeah. My dad said yesterday, my dad was there, and he said the crowd was just awesome. And Jalen Brown said that after the game. He thought it was one of the best crowds of the year and it really meant a lot to them that instead of being like, oh, the season's over, Tatum's hurt, all these people showed out and were like, we're not losing.

And they really fed off that. And that's what, when you have this series and the generations of fans that both teams have, you would think the same crowd would be there for the Knicks, but the stakes are a little different. The Celtics won the title last year. The Knicks haven't really had anything good happen to them since 1999.

And, you know, this is, on them since 1999. And you know, this is, this would be a catastrophic three, one loss to be up with the best part of the other team going out. Everybody's already sent into the next round. All of a sudden it falls apart in game five. Now in game six, you're down to eight. The energy of the crowd will be really interesting. I think the crowd will be great, but it's also insane.

It's going to get super nervous if this is actually a game. I agree with that. You can see that look from a Celtics perspective, this game five, you're coming off of this catastrophic franchise altering injury. There is a little bit of like a pride that kicks in, an adrenaline that kicks in, a collectivism of like, you got to go out and like make your group proud and your fans in your city however far you want to extend.

Not in our house. Not in our house. It's a moment, right? Like the response game after the Tatum injury is a moment. Now all that energy has dissipated. You let down a little bit. You did the thing where you proved everybody wrong. You had this impressive game.

Doing it again at MSG, I think it's going to be just incredibly challenging. I think that place is going to be rocking. I fully expect the Knicks to win it, to be honest with you. I just think that they're good enough. I think they will get enough from the OG-McKale combo, or if you want to extend it again, OG-McKale-Josh Hart. Two of those three guys have to have some kind of offensive game for them to win usually. And I think they're going to get it in this one. The counter is the last six halves we've played. The Knicks have played one good half.

Right? Game four, second half, they were incredible. I mean, that's in the running for best half anyone's played in the playoffs. I think they were 30 for 45 shooting. Yeah. Like they were just lights out, flame shooting out of their ass. They were awesome. So they have it in them. You didn't think their first, like the first half of game five, I thought they were pretty

good. Yeah, they're pretty good. But it's, you know, it's when Josh Hart's making threes, it's like, okay. I mean, sometimes you lose because Josh made three. It's just like, come on. I was happy every time it took me three. I never thought they were going in, but I thought game four, they were just getting every shot they wanted. The ball was moving and the crowd was like just electric. Like the Celtics people forget cause Tatum got hurt, but they were about

to go down nine in that game. They lost that game when Tatum was incredible. Tatum was on his way to a 50 point game and they were gonna lose anyway. So, do the Knicks have that again in them? My guess would be between game six and game seven, they're probably gonna have, they probably have one good game left in them.

Do I think Jalen Brown can do that two more times? That seems more far-fetched. It does seem more far-fetched. I think anybody would love to see it, just in terms of any great player reaching those kinds of heights again and again and again as the games increase in stakes, as it becomes harder and harder to do it.

That would be a Jalen Brown coronation moment for a guy who just came off a finals MVP. That would be incredible. I just don't see it. I don't think he has that much in the cards. Can I make the case? I would assume you would. I don't know if I see it either, but here's the case.

And I've followed him for nine years and I really do think he cares about all this stuff and cares about his place in the hierarchy and really is one of those. I'm not appreciated enough. People don't realize how good I am. He won the awards last year and even then it was like, he didn't make the Olympic team. You know, Kauai got sent home. They called in Derek White. It's there's always a lack of respect thing with him, which I think is somewhat genuine.

It's Tatum's team. Tatum gets introduced last. Tatum gets hurt. Season's over. And I think the guy that I saw in game five was like, you know, and I Tate him and Brown love each other. Like it has nothing to do with the injury. It's just like, this is my team too. I'm going to fucking protect our house. I really felt that in that game. Can he keep it going for two more days? Two more games? I

don't know. But you know, we do the ringer 100. He's always in the top 25. It's not like he's chopped liver. Like he's a really good player. He's an all-star and he's somebody that is capable of having games like he had in game five. I've never seen him be that patient, be that good with the ball. Like he only had two turnovers. He actually could dribble the whole game, which was uncharacteristic. He really led the offense and it was like a side that I just, you see it sometimes when they'll rest Tatum and it's like, Oh, Jalen Brown gets his own game and he gets to like run the offense. Yeah.

But you know, if you're talking about guys who have the most to gain in the playoffs, the rest of the way, if he could somehow bring the Celtics back and beat the Knicks, like this would be, people would think of them in a totally different way. I think I agree. I would agree with that and I think as far as like bigger statements go to Jason Tatum has a long road ahead of him in terms of his rehab and the Celtics have a lot of decisions to make as Far as what this team is gonna look like during his absence if they need to make radical changes sooner than later I've been in some dark places Rob

Understandably like it forces you to ask some really difficult questions about the construction of the team Understandably, like it forces you to ask some really difficult questions about the construction of the team If those questions start from a place of holy shit, Jalen Brown just did something we didn't even know he could do He occupied a role for our team. We didn't even know he was doing at that level that consistently Okay, then we're getting rid of some of the darkness, you know, we're staving off a little bit of it I think a lot of those questions still remain but they become a little bit simpler. I Said that to Jacobi last night and I really meant it. He was so good in that game yesterday that I think I reminded people because the instinct when Tatum goes out and you think next year is done.

I'm just like, all right, maybe it's time to trade Jaylen Brown and break it up and you know, try to do the quick rebuild for a year and then Tatum comes back. But then you watch him in a game like that last night. It's like, I don't want to trade that guy. No, this is, you know, one of the best 20, 25 players in the league and he's in his prime. What are we trading them for? Three quarters in the dollar. Why would we do that?

Um, then the other thing, and this is what I mean by dark places, researching Achilles surgery and all the different times. And if you, if you do it in the morning, it might add three months. It might shave three months off your recovery, which is what they did. They did the surgery in the morning. Wait, in the morning it shaves time off your recovery? Yeah, because I guess the whole mindset,

and I think somebody did this, maybe it was Kobe, but they found out about it. It's before the swelling kicks in. If you do it as close as possible to when the injury happens, it saves three months of rehab. So they went, they sprung the next day. I'm just telling you,

these are the deep dives I'm doing. How does it affect if mercury is in retrograde? Like I think there's a lot of conditional factors here we're ignoring. I don't know what to tell you, Rob. They didn't have to get on a plane. It's bad to fly before the surgery. It's bad to go up and down.

That makes sense. And the longer between It's bad to fly before the surgery. It's bad to go up and down. That makes sense. And the longer between the injury and when you have the surgery, there's less blood in your leg and then it swells up. So anyway, they did it in the morning and they felt really good about it. And now they're thinking like, shit, maybe he can be back in February.

This could be a nine month injury. I will believe that when I see it. That's ambitious. I feel the same way. Yeah. But I think the difference with him and like Kobe Bryant and Aaron Rodgers and some of these other people is he's 27 years old,

he's in the prime of his career, he's gonna heal faster. And they really do feel like they did everything. They got the best possible doctor, they did the surgery within 12 hours of the injury, and they feel like it went as well as it possibly could have gone. So who knows? So if you're thinking like, and this guy's also a maniac, like he will, you know, they're

going to have to like stop him from going too far and going too hard and trying to rehab too hard. So anyway, if you feel like, Hey, can we hang around in the East, which is going to suck? And could he be 90% of what he was in April? And, you know, I don't know. I don't think he's going to be 90% of what he was in April. I think that's true. That's too much to put on him.

I think you're right. But where I was yesterday versus where I was today, at least, hey, maybe he'll be back in April. Yesterday, I was like, my whole decade's over. What are we going to do? We're getting rid of everybody. So I don't know. It's, it's still as bleak as it could possibly be, but it's not, you know, when I

hear nine months versus 18 months, I'm like, okay. It's true. We got you off the ledge. I can't also like knock the drink out of your hand. You know, like we're, we're just trying to cope here ultimately. And I, I support you in that. Yesterday was hard. Yesterday was a harsh we're just trying to cope here ultimately. And I support you in that effort. Yesterday was hard. Yesterday was a harsh day because there was no information.

Yeah. And then it's like, is this worse? Is it like torn ankle ligaments and an Achilles? It was just not great. Podcasts are great because they help us make the most out of our routine. We learn about the fall of the Ottoman Empire while we drive.

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I think mostly the same, oddly enough. Look, anytime you're getting to the conference finals, especially in consecutive seasons, that's an incredible accomplishment that has nothing to scoff at. They did it by being the wolves in every possible respect. Completely overwhelming in some moments, like completely baffling in other ones. And I say that, you know, Julius Randall included as part of that, even though he may well be the best player in the world or the second best behind Ant in some moments,

those guys are capable of incredible mistakes and miscues and passes that don't make any sense. They're also capable of just bullying you and overwhelming you with scoring and collectively as a group, like their defensive acuity and the precision and the effort that they a group, like their defensive acuity and the precision and the effort that they play with, I'm so impressed by. So I would say like, I was kind of feeling this way

about them down the stretch of the regular season. They're like, okay, they were really pulling together. Julius Randall, this has been a building momentum now for a couple of months consecutively. And so they've been that kind of team. The question is, are they gonna play the kind of opponent where all of those mistakes are gonna catch up to them? This is something we were talking about on group chat too,

where it's like, they kind of know how to play the Nuggets. I'm not so convinced they know how to play the Thunder. And so the fact that this thing is going to a game seven and will be a quick turnaround into a series for them, they could have to solve, like figure out how to address OKC very quickly. I feel slightly better because of Randall's now put together a little resume here.

It's tremendous. What's crazy is like during the Laker series, I went to a couple of those games and he was doing really well in the Laker series and it's like, ah, well, it makes sense, you know, LeBron, LeBron's 40, they don't really have a backup, but like he was kind of attacking. Sometimes it was smaller guys. His ass team was a good matchup for him. Yeah.

And then you watch Golden state, you know, Draymond was guarding him. Yeah. We just saw what Draymond did to like Alper and Shangoon and locked him up. Right. I don't know if I've seen somebody that comfortable against Draymond. It was alarming, honestly. And then they're throwing Kaminga at him, but he just had his way. So then you start thinking, okay, so what's the bad matchup for him?

Because it seems like he's bully balling basically everybody who is from 6'9 and under. So then I started thinking about them against OKC. I guess they would go double bigs. Maybe. Maybe they throw Hardenstein on him. That would be fascinating. I think they could probably get away with that in that matchup, right? Just because Rudy and Chet feels more viable.

And then obviously for Denver, I think Aaron Gordon is a pretty good physical matchup. That's probably the best for him, yeah. But as you just alluded to, Draymond's a pretty good physical matchup. And he was just getting blown off his spot every time Julius dipped that shoulder and was just getting right into the lane getting to easy Looks like the combination for Julius Randall. This has always been in his game He was just doing a lot of wayward things and taking a lot of bad shots that were counteracting this stuff He's nimble in a way that basically no one as strong as him is on offense

Like the way he's able to move and change directions very quickly in addition to being that burly, an incredibly rare combination to have short of like LeBron James. Well, the other thing that's happened, there was always a weird, ah, should Nas Reed be getting these minutes over him and what's their best lineup? And then that kind of shook out organically, I think over the last month and now Nas Reed is a bench player again and Randall and Go bear and the fact that they can keep go bear on the court. We'll see if they're able to do that against okay. See.

Um, but I don't know. They're really good. And I'll say one thing with one thing with Edwards, he will feel like he's the best player in an okay. See series, even if she is the MVP of that series. So very true. You know, I do wonder, are they one of those teams that just kind of ebbs and flows with the opponent? Very possible.

So it's like, oh, we're going to be Golden State. They lose game one, and they stunk. Yeah. Right? I think that's the counterpoint is game one. And maybe it's like Steph leaving, kind of takes the air out of it for them, but they weren't playing particularly well when Steph was in that game. I don't know.

I do think there is some of that. I think it's true of a lot of teams, especially one that's as like, Minnesota we don't think of as a young team, but there are a lot of players in that group that are still relatively earlier in their careers that are quite emotional as players that you could see the let down

of having Steph taken off the floor or having a subpar opponent change the way that they think about attacking or kind of just like put the back on their heels a little bit where they're not quite going as hard as they need to. That's a group that has to go full bore to be as dominant as they ultimately want to be and as we've seen them be at their best moments in these playoffs. Your Butler, Butler stock drop for you?

A little bit. Game three was his game and they couldn't steal it. And that felt like he threw all his eggs into that basket and then he was the no show in the last two. It's another one of those, like, what do we expect? You know, like he kind of is this guy where he doesn't want to have to score 30. That's not the way he would prefer to play basketball. And so when he's kind of forced to kicking and screaming, dragged into it, he can't just

do it game after game after game. And we saw even in his best case scenario, by the end of that game, he was kind of out of steam. Like he didn't really have what it took to finish it. It's, it's hard work putting up 30 plus and closing and bringing like every crucial basket down the stretch, specifically in a game like that, where the Golden State role players weren't exactly all carrying their end of the bargain either. And so Jimmy Butler is a great second best player on a team behind Steph. Like a great match, a great fit.

I think they're gonna be in a great position going into next season. They need to make some, some like minor addresses to the rotation ultimately. Get another team that needs a couple of more rotation worthy guys. But I love the way Jimmy Butler fits. I just don't love him as the defining option

of a team without Steph. Well, the good news for them, Kamega now has sign and trade potential. It's the one winner of the playoffs for them. They now know they can trade him for something. You think there's like enough proof of concept there for somebody to bite? Like yesterday, he had, yeah, he had like 23 points in 29 minutes.

You know, put him, put him on some of those teams in the east and just kind of let them loose and yeah, I don't know. I would take a chance. If you're a GM of like, let's say you're the Pistons GM. You're like, we don't have a, you know, we're probably not going to get a massive free agent, but could we get one more scoring forward or like you're, I don't know, Charlotte or you're the wizards. Like, you know, the East, I mean, this is a whole other story.

What's going on? If Yanis gets traded to the West, this is another thing with Tatum. Like, can Tatum come back in April? The East is going to be awful. It's going to be like Indiana and New York, and that's it. It's going to be nobody else. Maybe Orlando, maybe Detroit. It's a nightmare.

I mean, you're seeing Indiana and New York seize on these opportunities, right? And there's gonna be another version of that next year when somebody else gets injured or as we're saying, like maybe the Celtics will be at the highest end of that mix, maybe they won't. Like I get why somebody would talk themselves into cominga. I think you phrased it the right way.

It's, are you looking for a scoring forward? Because if you're looking for an athletic do it all forward, you're going to end up with a guy who's going to average like 16.5 points and get two rebounds a game, despite the fact that he's 6'8", and should be able to out-jump everybody, but just does not. So if you can calibrate your expectations accordingly, that he will run the floor and run some possessions and put up some points for you, I think Kuminka can absolutely be that guy. Can he be anything else?

I remain a little unconvinced. The case against him. And I think that's a strong case is he put up stats and they got their asses kicked in those games. It often happens. All right. He was out there a lot and they were losing by 10 to 15 every game. Yeah.

Maybe that's something. All right. So your pick for OKC Denver is OKC. I'm going to take OKC as much as it pains me again to vote to pick against Jokic, pick against Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray. Like those are guys that you want to ride or die with in games like this. But I think the Thunder have enough and I think we're going to see it. We're going to get a moment from them in response. I'm going to make a rare semi-cop out, but not totally prediction. Are you allowed to do that? Okay.

See there wins by 15 or Denver wins. That's two different predictions. But I think it's one or the other. I don't think it's like a close game that okay. I think, okay, see either comfortably wins and I think it was close. I think Denver wins. So kind of an Excel tech situation, like, you know, if it's close, the Knicks have won those games. And if this game is close,

the nuggets would win this game you're saying. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I could absolutely see it. I mean, Nicole Jokic and crunch time is as good as it gets. Who are we to stand in the way of Aaron Gordon and one more potential game winner? Clearly he has it in him. I'm really going to miss Jokic. My daughter was asking, cause I was rooting for Denver, and she's like, what'd you bet on Denver? And I was like, I didn't bet on this series.

I don't need to bet on Jokic. You bet your heart. It's just my heart. He has, the Nuggets have my heart. I don't need to have money on them. I just want them to win. I like watching them. I don't want them to go away yet.

I really enjoy it. They might not, you know? We may have more Nikola Jokic left in this run. I like watching him unlock this fucking hornetets nest defense of multiple bigs throwing at him and these little gnats coming behind him and him just trying to navigate it and figure out what to do. I'm going to miss it. All right, Rob Mahoney, when's your next podcast?

God, I don't even know. I think we're delayed because normally we do group chat on Saturday nights. Our first no playoff game day this coming Saturday. So we're moving our group chat to Monday. Wow, we might have to spend time with our loved ones. I don't even know how to do that anymore. Jesus. I'm a shell of a human being, but I'm going to try to drag myself out of my apartment.

What's your number one TV show right now? I think it's still The Last of Us right now. Although Poker Face is coming in quite strong. I'm enjoying the start of that. Oh, okay. Poker Face. Yeah. There you go. All right. Rob Mahoney. Great to see you. Thanks to everybody who hung out with us on the YouTube stream and thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. And I will see you on Sunday with Rosilla. We're

going live after the OKC game. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, everybody. Thanks, Bill. I'm gonna see them on a way so I never wanna say I don't have feelings with them Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 Support Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York.