The Bill Simmons Podcast - Denzel Washington on 'He Got Game,' the Yankees, and LeBron. Plus, Yacht Rock Palooza. | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 390)

Episode Date: July 16, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons sits down with the legend himself Denzel Washington to talk Knicks, Lakers, Yankees–Red Sox, playing against Ray Allen in 'He Got Game,' making sports movies, filming fight scenes, and his new film 'The Equalizer 2,' which premieres July 20 (4:30). Then Bill calls up his pal and Rival CEO Nathan Hubbard to talk about seeing Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins, and Christopher Cross live in concert this past weekend, and what a "Yacht Rock Palooza" might look like (50:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's very special episode of the BS Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, brought to you as always by ZipRecruiter. You don't need a high hiring IQ to put Denzel Washington in your movie. He's a bankable A-list movie star. He's coming up on this podcast in a second. But if you're looking for hiring in a normal way, try ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter's powerful technology scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience for your job. My listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com. 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

We're also brought to you by our friends at Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans, who are excited to introduce their all new Rate Shield approval. If you're in the market to buy a home, Rate Shield approval, a real game changer. Here's why. First, Quicken Loans will lock your rate up for 90 days while you shop. The crucial part, if rates go up, your rate stays the same. If rates go down, your rate also drops. Either way, you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender to get started. Go to rocketmortgage.com slash Bill Simmons. We're also brought to you by TheRinger.com, where it is mid-July, which is really when we hit our stride.

There's nothing to write about. There's nothing going on. Just baseball. Guess what? People don't really care about baseball that much. Great. Well, we have Brian Curtis writing about the end of the LA Times Sports Desk. We have the battle for the best movie trailer since 1990.

Chris Ryan wrote this one. You can go. There's a bracket. You can do your picks. I think The Social Network is the best trailer probably of the last 40 years but that's just me Jabari Parker's Homecoming Kevin O'Connor wrote about that

Michael Bauman wrote about Manny Machado where's he going one of the few great baseball stories right now who's trading for him I hope he stays in the American League because he's on my league of dorks team Allison Herman wrote about Sasha Baron Cohen's Who is America show, which I thought was pretty uneven, but the last segment was unbelievable and must watch television.

And then Ryan O'Hanlon wrote about the six takeaways from 2018's World Cup. Classic story from my end. I had planned to wake up and bet on France and Mbappe scoring a goal and thought the game started at 11 and was out late on Saturday night and woke up at about 9.10, which is late for me. And the game had already started.

Classic. I'm terrible at gambling. Coming up, Denzel Washington. And then after Denzel, we are going to call my friend Nathan Hubbard to talk about the Yacht Rock concert that I went to on Saturday night that had to be seen to be believed. We taped Denzel on Friday at the Four Seasons. He was doing a junket for Equalizer 2, but we were able to get a solid 40 plus minutes with him.

He does not do a lot of sit downs. Really, really fun. Really, really, you know, obviously a bucket list situation for me. Now I have to redo my bucket list. Denzel was at the top. I got to get Hanks. I got to get Nicholson. I don't think Nicholson's very realistic. Stevie Nicks, if you're listening, you're on the bucket list. I'm ready for you. Billy Joel, another one. I like people who have had great careers and are willing to go back and talk about some of this stuff. There's really no athlete on my bucket list. There's a couple coaches.

But if you have any bucket list ideas for me, and don't send me stupid ones. Send me the stupid ones. Send me like the real ones. Send me the OGs, the ones that you can't believe I haven't had yet on the BS podcast. Email me at themailbagattheringer.com. We have had an incredible run here and we have zipped through a lot of people.

Denzel was way, way up there. And in particular, there was one question I wanted to ask him, which you'll hear during this pod about a sports movie that he made that I've been obsessed with whatever the real answer was, and he gave it to us and it's phenomenal. Denzel Washington is here. We're taping this on a Friday. This is a bucket list episode for me,

even though he's a Yankee fan and a Laker fan. But I feel like we can get along anyway. And you are what? I'm all Boston. Yeah. We're natural enemies. I'm sorry. Can you count to 27?

I can. I'm just asking. Can you count to 17 Celtics titles? Do you count the Minneapolis titles or no? Because the Laker fans I know count the Minneapolis titles, which I think is complete bullshit. See, first of all, I'm from New York. So I count Knick titles, which is depressing. I thought you were a first of all, I'm from New York, so I count Knick titles, which is depressing.

I thought you were a Laker fan. I'm from New York, so first I count Knick titles, but that's depressing of late. There's only two Knick titles. That's what I'm saying. You never left the couch. That's what I'm saying. But, you know, I've been out here a long time

through the Magic era and the Kobe era, and now we're at the, what era are we at now? Well, now I would call this the LeBron era. I would call this the here comes LeBron era. Who else do we need? What else do we need? More good players. Like what?

Like where? I thought Kawhi was coming. I just assumed it was both of them and then came to realize LeBron just wanted to live in Los Angeles and he doesn't. I think he's so confident now. It's probably like you when you get a movie and you're like, am I the only star in it? All right, I'll make it work. And I think LeBron's like that now. He's like, all right, we're a contender because I'm on the team.

We'll figure out the rest later. Would be my takeaway. You're not with me? Listen, I went to school in San Francisco. Yeah. And they got a lot of guys on that team up there. They do. They have four top 20 guys.

If you don't have a lot of guys, you're not going to beat them. He must know somebody else is coming. That's what I'm talking about. What else is going to – Who do you want to come? You still follow this stuff well obviously we need an on-ball defender

you just used we you are a Laker fan yeah I got Laker tickets okay alright we're talking about the Lakers yeah but you said you were a Knicks fan

I am are you a sports bigamist? I was a Knicks fan. I was a Dick Barnett fan. So what happens if the Knicks and Lakers play? You ever heard of Butch Komives? I've heard of everybody. You heard of Butch Komives?

I wrote the book of basketball. Okay. You can't name a Knick I haven't heard of. Okay. What did Butch Komives use to average? He was probably in the teens. You're close. Who was the sixth man on the championship Nick team?

Which one? 73. Was Jerry Lucas sixth man that year? That's pretty good. Or was it DeBuscher? No, DeBuscher started. It was Jerry Lucas. Yeah.

I'm not going to test you no more. I'm going to keep going. I'm good. So those your first Knicks teams were in the late 60s? I actually went. The first time I went to a Knicks game was the old garden. Oh. Yeah, my mother's boyfriend, I think, took me.

And they had posts in the old garden. And somehow we got the seats where that was. Oh, the Boston garden had that too yeah you had to watch the game like this i'm like oh this i can't believe i'm in the garden yeah in this you had to look around or something they call them obstructed view obstructed yeah they don't have those anymore and and we saw um oh hal greer oh you're going way back yeah 76 is right how real was playing on the 76 i think he shot a jump shot foul shot. Yeah, that's right.

A little bit to the left. A little bit to the left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Did you get to see Russell? No, never saw Russell. Nope. Do you have an opinion on the whole greatest player ever thing?

Because if you got to see Russell on TV, at least you're qualified. I never got to see Russell. I must have seen him on TV. Well, you know, but basketball wasn't that big then. Right. You'd see tape-delayed games. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The playoff game, even the finals sometimes back in those days

were tape-delayed. That's what I remember. My family had Celtics season tickets, and when they won in 1981, it was in Houston, and the game was tape-delayed. And I went to bed, and my dad woke me up for the tape-delayed game, and we tried to pretend we didn't know who won. Now it's like the internet era. You'd never be able to do that.

How do you follow sports when you're on these movie sets? Do you have like all the devices? Do you have like lead pass, all that stuff? I'm not a big device guy. You're not that crazy? No, but I keep up with the standing. I see what's going on. Michael Jordan or LeBron?

For what? For your personal pantheon. The greatest player of all time? Yeah. Because LeBron got some momentum this year. For me, the criteria is Michael Jordan was the greatest player of all time, and I don't want to hear the other arguments. Well, I put it this way.

Here's something. Here's a monkey in the wrench. Yeah. LeBron never had. Who's LeBron's sidekick? I mean, who's Michael's? Oh, Scottie. LeBron never had a Scottie Pippron's sidekick? I mean, who's Michael's? Oh, Scottie. LeBron never had a Scottie Pippen.

Right. Scottie Pippen. Well, he had waited that one and a half years. LeBron James has never had a Scottie Pippen. True. Who was the best defender, could play all five positions, guard anybody, and score 50, shut down anybody. No one else has had a co-star, if you will.

Maybe Kawhi will be that guy for him. Yeah, he could be. I mean, he's got the potential. He's got the potential. So how does your Lakers, do you have Lakers season tickets? Yeah. And what do you do with them when you can't go? What happens?

I was at the game when Mikael clotheslined oh that's a holiday in my house what is it who you Kuti clothesline clothesline

Kurt Rambis he deserved it and that night I signed up for season tickets what year was that 84

84 I've had season tickets ever since really that night I signed up I'm like oh yeah the feud is on

when did you get to know Magic and all those guys uh I've had season tickets ever since. Really? That night I signed up. I'm like, oh, yeah. The feud is on. When did you get to know Magic and all those guys? I don't remember when I first met him, but, you know, it's over the years. You know, more and more over the years. You played at Fordham, right? Fordham Rams, yeah. P.J. Carlissimo. Shooting guard or point guard?

What was your game like? I was a great defender and very fast. So what was that like? My offensive game was sloppy. Spotty shooter or you couldn't finish? Spotty New York City game. You go to the cup, no jump shot. Screwball, Jamal Wills kind of shot. But I grew up in Mount Vernon, so I grew up in a great basketball town.

Yeah. God rest his soul. Ray Williams was in my class. Gus Williams was a year ahead of me. I still have that poster. The Williams brothers, Ray and Gus together. Oh, I've never seen that. There's a Nike Williams brothers poster, yeah.

So you played against Ray Williams? We all grew up in the boys club together since age four, five, six years old. So I knew them since I was five, six, and we played bitty ball. Was that just one of the things you were doing, or were you like, I'm using this to go to college? No, I wasn't using it to go to college. No, it was even before that. In my era, if you will, the guys that I was coming up with at the club,

like Gus, they were some of the first guys. Like Gus got a scholarship to USC. He came out here. We were like, wow, he's going out to Cal. Man, what's it like? What do they do? What do they eat out there? We'd never been out here.

And one of the things that the director of the club used to do, which was great, he'd have you, if you went to college, he'd have you get one of the pendants, one of the flags from your college. And he put it in a hallway between the front door and the gym. So everybody who went to the gym, you had to walk through this sort of walk of fame, but you were like, oh, wow, Gus is at USC. I wonder what they do out there. You get to thinking about it.

So-and-so went to Long Beach State. What's that? What is Long Beach? You know, Wichita State. We had a kid. I forgot who. One of the kids went to Wichita State and played with Xavier McDaniel. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It was a kid from my run and played at Wichita. So you're at Fordham. Are you starting? Nah. No. Coming out of the bench. What it was, the walk-ons, we would fill in on the JV team because they had scholarship players

and maybe some of them weren't ready for the varsity. Yeah, yeah. So they'd have some of them on the JV team or the freshman team, whatever they call it, JV team. And I was a walk-on and just made the team. I really like Gus Williams' game. Smooth. I thought he was one of the most underrated 70s guys.

He actually should have won the finals MVP the year they won it. That's correct. He was like 27 in the game or something. I used to love seeing him in person i still have the the sports illustrated yeah yeah that's one that was a great era the late 70s because all the aba guys came in that's right and there were all these good point guards and they all were a little different than the old school point guards and you had like kevin porter and gus williams all these then isaiah eventually and tiny right um they just i just uh what was his name archie archie clark archie clark yeah Williams, all these, then Isaiah eventually and Tiny. Right. They just, I just. Archie, what was his name?

Archie. Archie Clark. Archie Clark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Archie Clark. Chicago, right? Yeah, Chicago. Yeah, Archie Clark. I've always wanted to ask you this.

This is my number one question. Anytime I was like, if I could ever get Denzel on the podcast. So the, he got game, you against Ray Allen. He's supposed to beat you. The story I've heard was he was supposed to beat you like 11-0 or whatever the final score was. And they staged the game and you're playing it. You're ad-libbing the game basically.

You're just playing it. And you decided to score the first four points and Ray Allen didn't know that was going to happen. Is that story true or not true? The whole time I told Ray I wasn't good with my left hand, which I wasn't. Yeah. All I was doing every night was practicing with my left hand,

every night, two, three hours. I'm like, oh, man, I don't have it. I never let him see me practice. Yeah. So if you ever go back and see the movie again, the first thing I do is start going left. And he doesn't see that coming. He doesn't see it coming.

And I got lucky. Some shots started going in. Yeah. Then it got good to me. Now I'm starting, now the New York's coming out of me. Now I'm bragging. I think I ran around.

You did, you did a lot. By the time I ran around twice, I knew I was already done. I'm like, all right, I'm good. I could not have gone back

to Mount Vernon if he beat me 11-0. So he thought he was supposed to be 11-0 and had no idea he was going to do this. And I let him think that he was going to beat me 11-0. So you rope-a-doped him. That's correct. So after you made one of them and you do the lap, he actually gets pissed in real life, it seems like.

Watch it again, knowing what you know now. And the look on his face. He's starting to look around like, you know now and the look on his face he's starting to like he's starting to look around like what you know he doesn't know he's never made movies before and I'm not telling him

right I'm trying to win so you were actually if you could have kept it going you would actually try if I could have won the game I would have right

but then he scored the rest then he started dunking and things changed yeah but we don't want to talk about that part. What was it, like a 20-year age difference at that point too? That probably wasn't open. 1997?

How old is he now? Yeah, he was like a baby. He was like 21. Yeah, so yeah, he's got to be 20 years different to leave. That's a really fascinating movie to rewatch. And I like it more. I really liked it when it came out. I thought it had a couple issues

but for the most part i thought it was the only kind of movie like that but now 20 years later it looks old no i'm so glad it exists it's really like the only one that really tried to tackle how effed up the whole system is and and it's it's sort of before aau. You know what I mean? AAU was just kind of coming in then. But not really what it is now. I didn't remember hearing anybody talk about AAU or any of that. People could go right from

high school to the pros, which was hanging there. And also the money was just before they had the rookie scale. So within three years, you could be making $20 million a year. And it's just all these people are coming out. It's a really interesting movie to rewatch. And he's, I think, one of the better actor basketball players.

I mean, look, it's a motley list. That's my comment. Like, as opposed to who would be bad the other basketball players who acted yeah Dr. J and Fish Setz in Pittsburgh you know who were there was like two or three guys I had to read with at the end like a final callback

one was Tracy McGrady I don't know if I read well you gotta ask Tracy if you see him whether I met him or I looked at his tape I just remembered he hadn't made any money yet. So he had this suit on. I remember the suit being a little shiny.

Like it's been ironed a lot. Yeah. Tracy McGrady was one of the kids that they were thinking about. That's so funny you had that memory because I remember going to Celtics games the year he was a rookie and he was hurt. And he wore this suit on the bench and it was like, oh, look how he's so cute. He doesn't have real NBA money yet. Like he didn't know how to-

Probably the same suit. He's like 18. He's from South Carolina. He'd been in the league for like seven months. So who, do you remember who else, who else auditioned for that or no? Ray Allen, Tracy McGrady, Stephon Marbury?

I don't know. Because I was spiking him. Yeah, well, yeah. A bunch of them ended up playing. Steph, what was the guy that played for the Knicks? That was on the... I forgot some of the... Oh, Alan Houston.

Alan Houston and a big guy. That was one of the bigger guys, like a power forward kind of size guy. It had to be somebody younger. Maybe like Charles... A couple of guys from Kentucky. Oh, Walter McCarty. McCarty.

Those guys are in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you ever go backwards and think about your old movies or you're just like on to the next one on to the next one I don't look back

what happens if you're flicking channels and they come on I don't know you don't pay it's not like watching a whole movie I'm not gonna sit there

and watch the rest of the movie no there's no like nostalgia that kicks in no nothing nah when did when did that shift when do you're like I'm here I belong I'm just going to next one There's no nostalgia that kicks in? No. Nothing? No.

When did that shift? When you're like, I'm here, I belong, I'm just going to Lexington. The first time I got the next job. That's when that shifted. You know? Yeah, that's great, but I'm over here. You know? When you had St. Elsewhere, which is a big show for me, because- Boston, that's right.

St. Allegiance. So, The White Shadow is my favorite show of all time. And Bruce Paltrow, who created that show, did St. Elsewhere after. And it was set in Boston. So it's a big hit in my house. But that was your first break, right? No. I mean, first steady job break.

No, I had done a couple of movies you did wilma you did carbon copy copy yeah and and uh and some players and soldiers play we want to pull a surprise oh that's pretty good and we you know so yeah on my way so you knew you'd take a TV show but you could also do movies on the set I didn't know that that was going to work out that way but I was hopeful what do you remember about St. Elsewhere Now? because that was a really influential show now we're in the era of like peak TV and that was kind of the show for

yeah I don't know I haven't seen it so it's like all blur yeah that's rear view mirror. Is it true you are kind of a method actor when you are inhabiting a part? You get really into that part and there's shades of the character that cross over and you just go deep?

Or can you shut it on and off? Who do you hear that from? I don't know. Yeah, it sounds like something you heard around here. I don't know. Do research. You're a hard guy to figure out. Everybody tries.

And that's okay. Why do I? I don't need to be figured out. In order to do what? People like knowing more about celebrities. People can care less. No, you're wrong on that. Yeah, people can listen.

People care. I would say somebody like you, you've been in my life since the early 80s, but I feel like people feel like they know you just from these movies. They feel like you're part of their life, like an uncle or something. You don't sense that? No. Wait, I don't. Uncle Danville.

Are you guys with me on this? Uncle Denzel. You were, my staff was the most excited that you were coming on the podcast out of anybody. I mean, you have a lot of, you're like Haché. Thank you. You don't say it. You're just going from movie to movie. Well, you're, no, you're living your life.

I'm not like I'm walking around with a hundred people telling me that I'm, you know, my doo-doo don't stink. You know what I mean? I'm living. I i'm living i'm not i'm not living in some bubble where people talk to me about me or right i'm just you know i gotta put the garbage out i got things to get done at what point in your career did you feel like you could get any movie made basically i'm waiting for that to happen oh come on i don't know i don't think of it in those terms i I'm not interested in that.

I'm interested in what's good on the page. If it's a good script, and I think it's something I can interpret, then. So what would be the checklist? Are you number one if it's a good script? Number one script, number two, who's directing it? Or do you worry about that later? It depends.

That's sometimes because the director may be attached sometimes you well no even if the director's first the script's always first it's not like i go oh i want to work with well that's not true either spielberg said i want to work with you then i'd say okay you haven't worked with him yet though right no no he's never he's never asked he's never asked no come on spielberg who else have you not worked with him yet though, right? No. No? He's never asked. He's never asked? No. Come on, Spielberg. Who else have you not worked with? Have you worked with Leo?

DiCaprio? Yeah. No. I wouldn't work with anyone with the name that ends with O. Oh, that's one of your rules? I haven't. Nobody's whose name ends with Pacino, DiCaprio, De Niro. Oh, that's right.

You haven't done Pacino or De Niro either. Spielberg. Spiraccio. None of the Os have called. It's all right, though. DiCaprio De Niro oh that's right you haven't done Pacino or De Niro either Spilbergo Spiraccio none of the O's have called it's alright though well you and Leo could do a

Laker fan drama oh yeah it'd be a drama right now yeah let's take a quick break from this interview with one of the

greatest actors of all time to talk about Audible they're offering the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet,

whether you're hiking, sunbathing, road tripping, enjoying downtime outdoors, Audible lets you fill your summer with more stories like Shoe Dog. My wife listens to Audible in the car when she's driving the kids around because they don't really read that many books because they're kids and they have video games

and stupid things to do all day. So she forces them to listen to books. She just listened to Shoe Dog, the story of Phil Knight, with the kids in the car. And now they know a ton about Nike. This could be you. From right now until July 31st, Amazon Prime members can get Audible for $4.95 a month for the first three months. Get a credit for any audio book in the store every month. And if you don't like the one you pick, they can exchange you with no hassle.

Plus, your audio books are yours to keep forever. Even if you cancel, go to audible.com slash BS or text BS to 500, 500 to get started. That is audible, A-U-D-I-B-L-E.com slash BS or text BS to 500, 500. Again, Amazon Prime members get Audible for $4.95 a month for the first three months. It's like getting three months for the price of one. After that, it's only $14.95 a month. The offer ends July 31st, 2018. And while we're here talking about things that the Simmons family uses,

if you're like me and you're not so great at planning ahead, I've got some good news for you. Our friends at Hotel Tonight have an awesome app that'll help you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute. Book next week tonight or book next month tonight. Hotel Tonight. All it takes is 10 seconds, just three taps and a swipe. No long, endless list of a zillion hotel choices.

Hotel Tonight only shows you the best deals at the best hotels. It's perfect whether you're a planner or you like to leave things to the very last minute, as you've heard me say many times, I've used it for multiple soccer tournaments in various parts of Southern California. I'm targeting August for the next time I use Hotel Tonight. It's going to happen with Hotel Tonight's HT perks program. The more you book, the better the deals get. Unlike other loyalty programs where you're trapped into staying at boring chain hotels. That's not the case here.

Start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels. Download the Hotel Tonight app. Right now, back to the man who once played Jesus Shuttleworth's father, Denzel Washington. I do feel like the Lakers, they kind of stumbled into LeBron, you know, and in some of the other areas like Shaq,

like Jerry West like carved out cap space for him. You know, the Kobe, they got, it was really smart trade and Will West, Baylor, all that stuff. But this was the first one where he just wanted to live at LA and it was a famous franchise and it didn't really matter what was there the last five years? You think that's all it is? What else do you think it is? Tell me. Ask Magic. Well, there's some magic

to it. Yeah, ask Magic. It's a little more than that. It's not just that. Well, Magic is a mentor I think is part of it, right? I think that's a part of it. Yeah, I agree. And I think it seems like... And would be a wise decision for... I mean, obviously LeBron's doing alright, but Magic is a very wise Yeah, I agree. And I think it seems like... And would be a wise decision. I mean, obviously LeBron's doing all right, but Magic is a very wise, very smart businessman.

For where LeBron... This is why I thought it was going to happen for a year, where LeBron has wanted to go. Oh, yeah. Where did you think he wanted to go? I thought he was going to go to the Lakers. I've been saying it since last summer. Yeah. Because it was the most logical move

for the stages of what his career have been. And now it seems like he wants to be a billion dollar businessman. And who's better

learning from the Magic? He's going into year 16, which like Magic played like 11 and a half or 12 and a half. Bird played like 13. Isaiah played like 14. Jordan half or 12 and a half. Bird played like 13. Isaiah played like 14.

Jordan on and off was like 15. And the stuff we see now with these 2010s athletes, I don't even know how to calculate it anymore. Like he was really good in year 15. Only Kareem has done that. So I don't know how many he has left. All the stuff they do now. Well, that's the thing.

Putting himself in now ice cold all that stuff he does you needed that for He Got Game I needed it tonight when I leave here the equalizer too which I loved I especially loved that he lived in Boston

but you have fight scenes in there and it's a pretty physical movie like how do you stay in shape now at this point in your life you actually you know and the training that you do in preparation I mean we probably I don't remember exactly how many months in advance we started training but you two to three days a week you start training with the guys and learning the patterns and you know it's physical is it all it's almost like dancing you're remembering the patterns of the moves it is it is but but it's the it's the

as i grab my knee yeah it's the twisting it's things that you don't ordinarily do in a normal sport and or repeat over and over and over yeah it's not just like one take if you throw on one you might have to do that 20 different times, 20 different ways, you know. Well, I was impressed you fended off a villain in the movie who's in the backseat who has a knife and a gun, and you just fended it off with the steering wheel, basically. It was like casually.

And that was a weekday. That's a weekday. You should have seen me on Friday. I got jokes over here. As you see, I got jokes. When they came to you with the sequel, were you like, I already did the equalizer. How are we doing this different this time? Todd Black, he's the producer and my producing partner.

We've done a lot of films together. He developed the equalizer for me. He said, when I'm ready, I'm going to give you the script. I'm'm telling you this is the one you should do yeah i said all right we'll see that was it he you know when he handed it i read it on a friday i called him i said when you want to start and you know we had good success and here we are uh again do you think about the balance when you're doing projects where it's like i just did did an action movie. I shouldn't do another one. Absolutely. I just finished Iceman Cometh on Broadway.

Yeah. Eugene O'Neill. I heard it was great. So to go from, I was doing Eugene O'Neill last week. Now I'm talking about jumping off of buildings and kicking. But, you know, I like that. I like being challenged in different ways. And I love the theater.

That's actually my first love, not movies. What other actor has challenged you the most doing a project? No, but just somebody that you felt like, oh, man, I got to raise my game. Because when I had Ethan Hawke on my podcast, I would say six weeks ago, and he talked about he loves you. He talked about you for a while. And he was like, the first day we did a scene, we did a diner, and Denzel was just, he had it going.

I felt like I was being blown off the camera for 10 minutes. It was like sink or swim. And it was the best thing that ever happened to me as an actor. I'm sure maybe that hasn't happened to you, but you must vibe with other actors differently, right? I mean, I remember working with Gene Hackman and just going, man, I'm in a scene with Gene Hackman. I'm standing there looking at him, and they're shooting, and I'm going, that's Gene Hackman and just going, man, this is Gene. I'm in a scene with Gene Hackman. I'm standing there looking at him.

And they're shooting. And I'm going, that's Gene Hackman over there. You know. But you get over that, I'm sure, at some point. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, that was years ago. It's got to be the same thing as basketball, right?

Where you go into the league and you're like, oh, there's that guy. Oh, I can't believe I'm playing against this guy. And then eventually you become one of the guys. Yeah. And then everybody's looking one of the guys. Yeah. And then everybody's looking at you. Then you become. Yeah, then. Used to be one of them.

Unfortunately for sports. It doesn't happen with acting. See, acting, you can, you know, you can see an 80-year-old equalizer. Where's my teeth? By the way, I'm in for that. If it's equalizer six. I'll beat him with my teeth. Yeah.

Gum him to death. You have a cane. She came with a little knife on the end. That'll be the trailer. Equalizer seven. Huh? Then he just walks away. Uh,

Malcolm X is a movie that I don't know. What's it been been 26 years now 1992 yeah yeah yeah I would say you know better than me

but probably the most difficult performance you've had because you've had you had to play different incarnations as the movie went on no

what was the most difficult I don't look at it that way difficult everything's a challenge listen you know this is just making movies it's acting it's not I don't look at it that way. Difficult. Everything's a challenge. Listen, you know, this is just making movies. It's acting. It's not that difficult.

Well, Malcolm X was more than that, though. I had done a play about Malcolm X in New York to tremendous success. Early in your career, right? Yeah, 10 years before we did the movie. And everyone said, you are never, you know, people were coming out of the war Muhammad Ali everybody came through everybody came through the Nation of Islam came through

everyone presidents it was it was like a life changing moment really? yeah yeah I remember sitting across the street from the theater

and it was like a 170 seat theater 150 seat theater and it was like a thousand people a night trying to get in and I was like wow my seat theater, 150 seat theater, and it was like a thousand people a night trying to get in. And I was like, wow, my life is changing. Ali wasn't waiting though. Ali was just saying, I'm coming in. Yeah, he probably didn't have to wait.

Was he the most charismatic guy out of all the celebs? He was one of the ones. I remember when I was very, very young, also in the business, I met James Stewart, Jimmy Stewart. I was so nervous to meet jimmy stewart we're at the they used to have those shows that what is the santa monica civic auditorium or something one of those award shows and jimmy stewart i'm talking to jimmy stewart and you just get that dumb yeah yes sir did you how long you must have started doing the late night shows pretty early, right?

Like as soon as your career started to take off. When did you kind of figure out how to just turn it on for these little five, six minute stints? Like when you're going on like. When you say turn it on, turn what on? Well, you just got to go on and you're just boom. I think you're really good at those late night things. Well, it's just, you know. Do you have to rehe at those those late night things well just you know give them the first stories or do you roll up the person you won't do that in fact i i asked not to do that i was going to say i can't imagine yeah yeah you know i mean it's like we coming in

here and we've already gone through all the quay i don't want to know you ask a question i'll answer i still have questions oh that's fine remember the titans remember the titans no i don't remember i told you i got ants you've only done that one and he got game for sports movies as far as i can tell right am i forgetting something hurricane oh hurricane yeah is that it i think that's it i enjoy remember i feel like it's like every frustrated football coaching father. You know, that was the, now I'm the coach. Yeah. And I read the script and we're going to win and I know it.

That's a movie that has. And I can say anything I want. That's a movie that has legs, but also has legs and NBA arenas on the Jumbotron. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, here's a steal in that movie. I say to one of the kids, I said, you're killing me, Petey, you're killing me. There's some footage from old NFL films. And it was a guy named Whitey and one of the coaches or something yells at you, you're killing me, Whitey, you're killing me. I don't know what coach says that, but I actually stole it from

watching one of those NFL film. Oh, the NFL films with the music? Yeah. Your son is an actor now on Ballers. Did you know he was going to be an actor, or was that a surprise? I knew he was talented. Yeah. But you never know what a kid wants to do. And he was pursuing football and got quite far, as far as the St. Louis Rams.

Yeah. Yeah, so once I saw him up there, I was like, what have I done? Got this kid into this. I didn't know he was going to get that far. Yeah. I'm figuring, you know, a little Pop Warner, you know, an eight-year-old lead, move on. But it was so violent.

I was like, I couldn't believe how violent it was. I remember I called him. He was in training camp his rookie year. And he said, Dad, it's violence. I said, it's violence i said it's violent he said no dad not violent violence it's just violence he said i ran the other day or i ran and nobody's feet were on the ground said everybody was flying trying to get a job you know you got 200 guys trying to get 40-something jobs. So he used to get like, well, what are you doing out here? You know, your dad's this.

So that was his chip on his shoulder. Right. Oh, he hated that. Proving them wrong. Oh, he hated that. He wanted to break your leg for saying that. That usually goes the wrong way. That's actually a good way.

It's good that it went that way. What were you like as a sports parent? What were you like in the stands? You know what I you like as a sports parent? What were you like in the stands? You know what I was like. Exactly. Get a ball. Give him the ball. Yeah.

Go. Give him the ball. Give it to my son. You probably could have intimidated the coaches. Good. Did he play hoops too or no? Yeah, he played a little basketball. His brother was better at basketball.

In fact, they won a little championship, but his brother had a good team. They played with a kid that made the Lakers, Darius Morris. Oh, yeah, yeah. Darius Morris and my son Malcolm were the two starting guards for their high school team, and they won the state championship. Do you, other than Laker games, do you go to sporting events or you stay away uh not so much lately msg next when my kids were playing yeah then you're going you know msg next or you just you're waiting till they get good again did you say again the next well i haven't seen him you're staying

away i just i bet you were there for Ewing and Oakley and all those guys. No, I was out. You know, I was here. I was living out here then. I was living out here then. So, I mean, I was following them. Yeah. You know, and hoping that, you know, Jordan would get sick or something.

That's all you could do is hope he got sick so somebody else could win. But you were friends with him though right no no we're not I mean I met him there's a story I heard that he gave you and Ray Allen

the only Air Jordan no you and Spike Lee the only Air Jordan 13s on the set he got game and Ray Allen didn't have them that's on the internet I don't know if that's true

I wonder if I still have mine I think they were That's on the internet. I don't know if that's true. I wonder if I still have mine. I think they were like the early, early preview ones. I don't know. No? I don't know about that one. They're in the closet somewhere. Yeah, I do have some brand new ones in there. They might be in the closet somewhere.

Yeah, I have some new ones that I've never worn. So what's next for you? Dinner. What are your next projects? I don't know. I don't know, actually. I'm unemployed. You got something? know, actually. I'm unemployed. You got something?

You're unemployed? I'm unemployed. So we need to come up with a movie for you? I'm going to be a sports announcer for the Celtics. What do you think? I think it's either a sports announcer or a basketball coach. You did the football coach. Now do the basketball coach who's from a different generation

who doesn't really understand where this league is going, and these guys are too selfish. I like that. Back in my day. Right. Yeah. Back in my day. Now there's a new prodigy.

We're going to call it that too. Back in my day. Back in my day. Yeah, you're just telling people back in my day we didn't put up with this bullshit and then the new prodigy comes out. That's what my son says.

Dad, anybody I bring up, oh, he ain't no good. Who is that? Boom. Dad, he led the league in swords. Nah, he's lucky. Never happened again, did it? Who are your favorite players to watch now other than LeBron?

Kawhi. You know, my youngest son, Malcolm, played on his team, Wynwood, as I said, with Darius, and they won the state championship. Wynwood in L.A.? Wynwood. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we know Wynwood. That's my daughter's school. It's right there. winward and as i said with darius and they won the state championship and they had winward in la winward oh yeah yeah yeah he played we know when right that's my daughter's schools right there that's a great sports yeah yeah what's what school right she goes to the willows which is right next to there yeah yeah uh what was i saying oh and and and and they had a game and it was a second game and it was a school called king riverside yeah was playing a team, I think, from Atlanta.

And I remember it because that night they said, there's a young man who's playing tonight. His father had been killed. So we had a moment of silence for him. And the kid's name was Kawhi Leonard. And he had about 29 points and 27 rebounds. Oh, my God. And I figured, oh, wow, this kid's inspired by losing his dad.

And what a game. No one knew, oh, no, he'll be able to do that for the next 20 years. Yeah, seriously. It was quiet. Very quiet. I remember he was just very shy. Oh, now he's so loud now. Kawhi Leonard.

I think it was King Riverside he played for. Him and LeBron together would be really interesting because I don't I think Kawhi loves being on good teams but doesn't want

kind of the burden of being the night to night star and the voice of the team like when you're when you're on a good team you also have to be the voice of it

to some degree and be the public face of it I don't think he wants any of that he just wants to play they gotta get shooters though they do I didn't like their signings Golden that. He just wants to play hoops. They got to get shooters, though. They do. I didn't like their signings.

Golden State shoots threes from half court all night. I know. So it doesn't matter how well you score two-point baskets if they're scoring three. 19-year-old you would not have liked this era of NBA, of bomb and 25-footers. Nobody goes to the hole anymore. Yeah, nobody goes to the hole anymore.

That's true. Do you like the three-pointer or the two-pointer more, just as a fan? Because some people love the way they play it now. It seems more open now. Yeah.

You know, I mean, when you look back at some of the old, you know. It's very cluttered. It's very cluttered. Yeah. And, you know, slow. It was an inside-out.

The game truly now is outside-in. slow. It was an inside-out. The game truly now is outside-in. It's not inside-out. I mean, you look at what's happened just in the – and I'm not knocking him, but in the time that Dwight Howard's been in the league. Yeah. It's gone from an inside-out league to an outside – to where he's almost –

He has no position. He has no position. By the way, it's okay to knock Dwight Howard. At least. The thing that was the hardest thing for me to adjust to this decade was fast breaks with the guys on the wings going out instead of toward the basket. Right. And I still am not totally used to it. And that's just how everyone.

And then if you go and you watch high school now, that's what they do in high school. That's what they're doing. Yeah. Because remember the old 11-man drill where it was just like three on two constantly? And all of it was about trying to get layups. And now I think 11-man, they just veer to the corners. Right. Jack up threes.

Right, right. I would make threes illegal until like 10th grade if I was the sports czar. Don't even take them. Learn how to play without the three until you're 16. You can jack them up for the rest of your life. And dads will start putting their kids in AAU teams and not playing in high school. Yeah, that's true.

I'd have to do it for AAU too. Although AAU has bigger problems, I think. Are they having problems now, AAU team? Well, yeah. I think it's, I don't know. I don't know. I'm out of all of that. Not a huge fan of the AAU.

So when you go to these games, do the players talk to you during the games? Like you're sitting courtside or wherever you're sitting. Do they seek you out and talk to you? No, not seek me out. Depends upon when I get there. But, you know, you get the – Get the nod? Yeah.

You know, I'm busy right now, D. I can't act like a fan, you know, especially the other teams. You know, they come to town, you get to, you know, it's all good. And that's it? Nobody talks shit to you from the other team? You've never had a Spike Lee, Reggie Miller moment? Spike, no, he's a willing participant. He loves talking, you know.

I went to the game with him. I'm like, man, sit down. Sit down, man. He's a fan. I'll tell you what, him. I'm like, man, sit down. Sit down, man. He's a fan. I'll tell you what, though. I liked his book. They love him in New York. Oh, yeah.

We left the garden. I'm like, where's the car? He's like, car, we're going to get the train. They love Spike. How many times you work with him? Four? Inside band, Mo' Better Blues, Malcolm X, He Got Game.

Is that it? Yeah. So you guys are due. Call him up. Tell him. Don't tell me. Tell him. You got to do an NBA one.

You have to. You got to do one basketball one. About how the Knicks beat the hell out of Celtics. You got to don't get quiet now. That would be, but that's the thing. That would be a science fiction movie.

That would be a movie. A fantasy movie, right? The only way that would happen is in a movie. The funny thing is the Knicks, the Knicks have been really terrible for 70 years. What's wrong?

When you think about two titles in 70 years, it's the biggest city in the world. All the players that have come out of there, they were first. It's kind of impossible. I think they made the finals like four times.

You know know and now destinations don't mean what they know doesn't mean anything you know maybe la because of the entertainment industry a bit more for those like a lebron or somebody that's he's pretty unique though yeah he's unique i think two things that changed this decade the most one was the the player empowerment and the players just flipping the switch and the players are now in control of the league in a way that we've never seen. The other one is it doesn't really seem to matter where they play. Like Westbrook is one of the four most popular guys in the league

and he's in Oklahoma City. Yeah, but he's a beast. He's unique. Yeah. We want to see him. I mean, we don't get to see that many Milwaukee home games with Giannis when Giannis gets there I think you'll see Giannis

I just think about what it was like when I was growing up I saw the Iceman and George Girvin like 7 times in my life you know like 3 times in Boston and 4 times on TV and that was my experience with them unless they made the playoffs I don't know I'm jealous of all the people now

there's basketball at their fingertips. You want to talk Yankees-Red Sox? 23, 24, 25. How we doing this year? I'll tell you this. You need pitching. That's how you're doing. No, I'm in Boston.

Fenway is one of the most beautiful parks. Thank you. You know, when I went, I was the first equalizer. I went to a game. And I realized why they call those parks ballparks. Yeah. Wrigley Field. No, not Wrigley.

Wrigley Field. Yeah, Wrigley Field. Who else has a ballpark? It's really those two. No, isn't there another? Camden Yards is kind of like that, I guess. It's really those two. No, isn't there another? Camden Yards is kind of like that, I guess. There's another old one. Pac Bell is newer.

No, there's another old one. No, they got rid of all of them. They're all gone. I'm actually sad they got rid of Yankee Stadium. I know they made the similarly robot Yankee Stadium. Right, right. I don't know. I like the old one.

The sitting in the third deck where it's like when you walk down, you might just fall over and fall to your death. It was harrowing up there. I was in Chicago one year doing, I think I was going to do the Oprah Winfrey show, and we rode past Wrigley Field, so I told the driver, pull over. Yeah. And the guy was out there. I said, sir.

He said, yeah, come on in, Denzel. Everybody always wants to come in. You want to see the Ivy, don't you i'm like yeah so i ran in now i'm running around i didn't slide there's nobody in there but me and the guy that's opened the gate and i'm running around i'm bouncing into the the ivy you know you're kids but what tripped me out was how small the dugouts were yeah in that they're really were. They're like little tiny. Everyone was tiny back then. I guess. The dugouts were little and funky. Fenway is one of those

things when you walk in, it really is genuinely amazing. You see that wall and it's like, oh my god, this is like a sports movie. I'm excited the Red Sox Yankees rivalry is back. I think it got really fun there during the Pedro Manny versus Jeter and all those guys era.

And then it kind of slowed down. And now this year, there's a lot of talent on both sides. Baseball needs it. Sports needs it. Yeah, I'm a little worried about baseball. We've been talking about that on my podcast. The attendance is going down. I think with people under 30 who are now, it's the whole ADG generation.

It's too slow. It's too slow. And I don't know how you fix it. Basketball's like perfect. Even soccer's really gained steam. People are really into the World Cup. I never thought that would happen. But baseball, it seems that the demo is getting older and older it's in

that equalizer six and and and and and you know because they're not neighborhood teams like they used to you know right there's not as much of the local fan base that's going to go all the time to go see their yankee you know what i mean yeah yeah and it's expensive it's expensive it's super expensive got to pay for parking. Was it $200 a day? No, it's freaking expensive. And you've got to pay for the parking. It's six hours.

$10 hot dogs. I think one of the things that ruined it, though, is the TVs are nicer. I can watch the Red Sox at home on a nice TV in the HD, and it's like, why don't I do the game? I'm right here. I went to a World Series game at Yankee Stadium. And the place, I don't know, this is the old Yankee Stadium, and it holds whatever, it holds 75,000.

But there must have been 120,000 people in there. There wasn't one cop or fireman working in New York City. It was like game six of the World Series. And you couldn't move. Every cop, every fireman, everybody was in uniform. They all came because they can get it for free. It was crazy. Standing room only.

Yeah, it was standing room only. It was so New York. Is your base California or New York? California. But at home. Yeah, you mix it up. All right. This was fun.

My pleasure. Good luck on the movie. I'm glad the guy was based in Boston. That really meant a lot to me. I'm glad we finally got you. Thanks for coming up. All right. This was fun. My pleasure. Good luck on the movie. I'm glad the guy was based in Boston. That really meant a lot to me. I'm glad we finally got you and something. Thanks for coming up. Before we go, I wanted to call my friend Nathan Hubbard to talk about the Yacht Rock concert at the Hollywood Bowl on Saturday night. Yacht Rock's on channel 70 on Sirius. I DJed for them a summer ago and some are saying it was the greatest hour guest DJ stint anyone's ever had on Sirius. I don't know if that's true. That's just what people were saying. We're talking about Yacht Rock with Nathan in a second, but first,

becoming a successful business owner doesn't just happen. It takes hard work and you really can't afford to let anything get in your way. When it comes to all the details and regulations, you need someone that has your back. That someone is LegalZoom.com. LegalZoom was created 17 years ago with a mission to help all Americans confidently and competently navigate the legal system. Since then, over a million people have trusted LegalZoom for business formation, but your relationship with LegalZoom hardly ends there. LegalZoom put together a network of independent attorneys licensed in every state available to answer your questions, provide legal advice for your business without billing by the hour. Because as a business owner, you have enough to worry about without getting bogged down

by legal stuff. For that, there's LegalZoom.com. Go to LegalZoom.com now. Use promo code BS at checkout for special savings. LegalZoom, where life meets life meets legal legalzoom.com. And since we're here, let's talk about our friends at Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. Hey, when you're buying a home, it could be one of the most important purchases you'll ever make.

But today's fluctuating interest rates can leave you with higher payments, turning a great experience into an anxious one. That's why Quicken Loans created their exclusive power buying process. They check your income, assets, and credit to give you a verified approval so you have the strength of a cash buyer. Once verified, you qualify for their exclusive rate shield approval. They'll lock your interest rate down for 90 days, up to 90 days. If rates go up, your rate stays the same.

If rates go down, you get to keep the lower rate. Either way, you win. To get started, go to rocketmortgage.com slash Bill Simmons. Rate shield approval only valid on certain 30-year purchase transactions. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans data in comparison to public data records. Data, data, data, data, equal housing lender license in all 50 states, NMLS, consumeraccess.org, number 3030. All right, we'll call my friend Nathan. All right, on the line right now, ringer intern Nathan Hubbard,

who long storied music career he's been on this podcast many times where he wasn't on Saturday was at the Hollywood Bowl for what could best be called the Yacht Rock reunion concert I went with my wife I didn't know about it until the night before I love Yacht Rock

it's channel 70 on Sirius I ride or die with Yacht Rock I feel like Michael McDonald is the key person in Yacht Rock. It was Christopher Cross, Kenny Loggins, and Michael McDonald. So I called you on Friday. Other than you're trapped on the East Coast on a family summer vacation. I don't know what the hell you're doing. But what was your reaction when you heard this was the last stop for the Yacht Rock tour and you were going to miss out completely?

What casino is Christopher Cross going to play the next night? I think that's actually true. He is playing casinos. All three of them went back to the casino circuit the very next night, independently. I will tell you that Hollywood Bowl was packed to the gills. How many does it hold? Like 18,000, 20,000? Yes, 20.

I might have been like, my wife was like the seventh youngest person there. I was like the 10th youngest person there. It was bougie, old LA people. And it was glorious. It was everything I wanted. It started out with Christopher Cross came out and he needs backup singers now to hit some of the, some of the keynotes to, to his classics.

What I respected was he only played four songs. He'd basically had four hits, right? Banged out the four hits and that was it. Never be the same sailing Arthur's theme and ride like the wind Like the Wind, and Let's Hit the Crabs Table. Comes out, seemed relatively sad, but also happy because he was playing in front of a whole bunch of people. He was a massive musical artist, I would say about 36 years ago, and the sailing has really been the iconic Yacht Rock saga, I would say. So, saves... Listen, Christopher is the guy,

you know, video killed the radio star. That is Christopher Cross. Right. He has a body built for radio. He has a voice built for radio. And the video era, it just filleted him. He just could not get over the hump. Yeah, he looks like a pit boss at not even a casino in Vegas, like in the outskirts,

like in prim Nevada. He's like the night shift pit boss. That's, that's the vibe that he had. But I'll tell you this after he played the first three, actually the third one, I think was sailing and the 60 plus year old guy next to me, the riffs of sailing start. And the guy goes, here we go. Very excitedly. It was pretty great. But, uh, so after sailing does ride like the wind and he's like, I'd like to introduce my good friend, Michael McDonald. And then Michael McDonald comes out, the crowd goes crazy. He,

you know, Michael McDonald, it's, it's been a while since the glory days. It's been about, what, 36, 37 years? I disagree with you. I think he's the best. But what was the problem? He's looking rough. He's sounding rough. Does not look rough.

He oversings now a little bit. Yeah. He sort of plays the now a little bit. Yeah. He sort of plays the character a little bit. Yeah. He's definitely like really belting it out. He's kind of singing out of the side of his mouth now, like Sly Stallone. He's still eating the microphone. He's putting his gut into it now, which he didn't always have to do.

But it was still great. So he comes out. They do Ride Like the Wind. Crowd goes nuts. He leaves. Change. Kenny Loggins comes out, who is somewhere between 70

and 90. I don't know the exact age. Looks fantastic. I don't know if he had work done, but if he did, congrats. He looks like Lee Greenwood now. He said someone's work done. I'll tell you, great stage presence still.

The ladies love Kenny Loggins, and as you point out, well, do your riff about his 80s hits. Well, so Kenny, I have two riffs. One is that Kenny is the only guy who really went from the soft, wussy, like 70s, like pre-Yacht Rock singer-songwriter to dead in the middle of leading the Yacht Rock parade

to actually making it into bona fide 80s music. And that's something we need to talk about is what actually made the transition. House at Pooh Corner was 1971. This Is It was 1979. And Danger Zone was 86. There's almost nobody who actually put out hits that long and survived the three whitest era, like whitest era in American music.

So good on, good on him. But the craziest thing, did you mention, did you mention footloose? Exactly. Because he had three hits for three of the like greatest eighties, like movies ever,

right? Caddyshack yeah footloose top gun i don't know that there's anyone in the history of music who's written besides like john williams with the star wars stuff like nobody's written three massive hit songs for three massive huge movies like that ever he also i have a vague memory of This Is It being the theme song of the 1980 Winter Olympics. Is that possible? I don't know. The Russians.

No, no. This is Lake Placid. This is the one we won. But the Russians, the hockey memory takes over for me. I can't remember Kenny Loggins. So he came out. He sang a couple old school 70s songs, moved into the Yacht Rock era a little.

And at this point, I'm really focused on a Stevie Nicks introduction. Right? Because you want her to show up. Yeah. And Whenever I Call You Friend, I think is one of the best 10 to 12 Yacht Rock songs ever. Stevie's not coming within 20 square miles of that gig. She does not want to be locked in

I wonder if they even performed that song though because I think there's some bitterness about she was supposed to be somebody else and at the last second that person couldn't do it and Stevie got brought in and maybe they cut her out of the cut her out of

the royalties or maybe she got a bad deal. You're telling me Stevie has a beef with a fellow musician? I'm shocked. That's the other thing. She probably put a curse on Kenny Loggins. So anyway, they didn't say that. And Lindsey Buckingham.

Oh, the list can keep going. She turned 70 recently, by the way. Happy birthday to Stevie. I still want you on my podcast. So instead of introducing Stevie, he introduces his good friend, Michael McDonald, who comes back out and sings This Is It. And I got to say, it was great. And I just don't know if anyone has ever just kind of come in

as the backup Robert Horry slash type on songs better than Michael McDonald, with the possible exception of Nate Dogg. Is there anyone else you can think of? He is the greatest backup singer of all time. There is an awesome SCTV sketch where Rick Moranis plays Michael McDonald. Doing the backup part on

Ride Like the Wind. Where he just runs in off the street out of his old mobile and just gets in the studio in time to sing that part and then blazes off to his next thing. He is the greatest backup singer of all time. And it is shown as well in the Grizzly Bear tune,

While You Wait for the Others, where they brought him in four years ago to sing backup on that song, and then they talked him in for the B-side to singing the actual lead track, and it is bad ass. It is one of the best recordings that I've heard in the 2010s. Go listen to it.

I left out the crowd at this thing. Not just the age of the crowd, but the people who are a little bit younger who were there. I was kidding when I said I was in the top 10. There were people in their 30s and 40s there. Come on. There was a lot of yacht captain hats. People were dressed up like yacht people. What are those white yacht caps that people wear? What are those called? I imagine that it was like a Trump rally, except progressive people in white hats instead of red hats. Yeah.

It was a liberal Trump rally. The people were wearing the blue blazers with the white polos and the hats and really like, did they get there in time for Christopher cross or was it like, was it so sad? He was playing to an empty Hollywood. No, no,

no. People were there. It started, it said it started at seven, but it really started at eight. So Kenny killed it. That's like what you tell your grandfather for Thanksgiving dinner. So he shows up 15 minutes late.

Well, Pete, you can bring your own food when it's a Hollywood bowl sanctioned event. So a lot of people brought like their own wine and food and stuff like that. Highest Shibley consumption per capita of any event of the year at the Hollywood bowl. Yeah. You can bring in your own edibles, whatever floats your boat. So here's the other thing that we need to talk about with Yacht Rock. So when Anthony Bourdain died, did you see Questlove's playlist?

Yes, it was like 600 songs. 600, right, because he was in the kitchen with Bourdain one time. Bourdain was playing Billy Joel, or Billy Joel came on and Bourdain banned it. He's like, I don't know Yacht Rock in the kitchen with Bourdain one time, Bourdain was playing Billy Joel, or Billy Joel came on and Bourdain banned it. He's like, I don't know Yacht Rock in the kitchen. First of all, is Billy Joel Yacht Rock? Question number one. But number two, when Bourdain died, Questlove made a 600 song, what he called Yacht Rock playlist, designed to posthumously convince

Bourdain that Yacht Rock is really awesome. And first of all, when Questlove is carrying the torch for Yacht Rock, you know it's for real. But that playlist contains everything from like Bonnie Raitt, I Can't Make You Love Me. That's not Yacht Rock. To all the way back to like Michael Jackson Rock With You. So Questlove has a very, very broad definition of what Yacht Rock is. Mine would be significantly narrower.

I don't think Billy Joel makes it. No, God no. I did this when I did the guest DJ stint. So the people that actually created the phrase Yacht Rock have an even thinner definition of it. Mine's a little looser. For me, it's like, first of all, it has to be able to be played on a boat.

I think it's the number one thing. If it doesn't make sense on a boat and not a boat that's going like 60 miles an hour but like it's kind of cruising it's heading back toward the dock everyone's on their second bottle of wine you're not sure if the guy driving it might actually crash into the dock on his way there

and the sweet soothing sweet soothing sounds of Michael McDonald are kind of playing as everybody's just kind of hoping the guy can get the boat in the dock without knocking the dock over. That's one. Two is I feel like McDonald has to be in every three to three and a half songs.

Right. So if it's like a yacht rock two-hour marathon and more than three songs go by without Michael McDonald, somebody's done something wrong. And then wait, hold on, one more, third one. There's a huge, huge, huge difference between 70s soft rock and the 70s singer-songwriter rock and yacht rock. Yeah. And the people that run the yacht rock station, God bless them, fucking Air Supply is not yacht rock. It's just not.

No. Simon and Garfunkel is not yacht rock. Billy Joel is not yacht rock. We have 70s soft rock as a category for those people. That's not yacht rock. Rupert Holmes escaped Pina Colada. That Pina Colada song, that is yacht rock. And the other terrible Rupert Holmes, Escape, Pina Colada. That Pina Colada song, that is Yacht Rock. And the other terrible Rupert Holmes song,

the Phone Line song, whatever that song is. What song is that? That song. That song's Yacht Rock. Bad songs have to be considered Yacht Rock too. But the funny thing with, there's more Michael McDonald songs that don't even really get thrown into the yacht rock mix like they should.

I got to try and one step closer like some of those Doobie Brothers. To me, the iconic yacht rock performance is on YouTube. It is the Doobie Brothers' Farewell Concert in San Diego. They did two of them. Farewell before we do our next farewell tour. Well, this is when in the early 80s when somebody said it was a farewell concert And then The Irving Azoff method

For making bands last month We actually thought it was the last time we'd see these people Not knowing that they would be back a year later This is what you two should have been doing since 2005 But This concert I think Michael McDonald might actually be wearing A white linen shirt and

he's just banging out and there's all the doobies there and backup singers. And it is absolutely extraordinary. And unfortunately for me, when he came out for this concert on Saturday, like, you know, he's at a different stage of his career. He's, this is something you and I have argued about a lot, whether it's worth it to see your idols well after their prime. If you offered me the choice to see Larry Bird and Magic Johnson play basketball right now, I would go, but I would be disappointed

because they're old men at this point. But if they played right now and they were 50 to 60% as good as they were in their peaks, that actually might be worth it as an experience. And I think the closest thing we have to this with sports is golf. Like when my dad and I went to the masters, we went to the par three and Jack Nicholson and Gary Poyer and Tom Watson were all playing together and they all birdied this par three and it was awesome. That's the only sport where that can happen. You are more forgiving with older people continuing to play music. It doesn't bother you as much, right?

Well, because at this point, they're basically just playing to a backup track, right? Like, Paul McCartney's shows are still awesome, even though he's, like, 80. Yeah. That said, I'm not sure that I want to go see the Elton John, youton John Last Farewell Tour, because I don't think Elton can sing anymore. And hasn't been able to for 20 years.

And look, I watched three hours of Periscopes, of the Friday and Saturday Night Yacht Rock shows. So I'm with you that Michael doesn't totally have his voice, but he's still, I mean, he was still bringing fire throughout that entire show. Yeah. He brings the energy. I agree. Yeah.

And certainly like more than Kenny and, and Christopher cross can say, so I I'm still in on Michael McDonald. I'm still into, I think I had spent so much time in the late seventies or early eighties with them. You forget that people are now 35 years older. It is interesting though. I think I had spent so much time in the late 70s or early 80s with them. You forget that people are now 35 years older. It is interesting though.

I think Billy Joel has kept his voice the most of all the people that we grew up with. He cheats a little bit though. In concert he transcribes pieces lower. He's playing them now in much lower keys. That's what Michael

McDonald was doing to the lower stuff he could really hit the higher stuff that you really have to belt out was having a little trouble with now either he either has to transcribe it down or punch himself in the balls for three hours before the show he did not play you belong to me I think that that the girl he wrote that about might have might have sued him or something. Who knows? My favorite part was that he came out and said, tonight we're going to dedicate this to love because

love lasts forever. And then two songs later he played, I keep forgetting we're not in love anymore. That's a thing. And this is why I want to do the podcast with him so badly. I want to know if it was one person who completely destroyed him emotionally or whether it was a variety of women, but this is a guy who wrote a minute by a minute.

I'll be holding on. What a fool believes. I keep forgetting. We're not in love anymore. I can let go now. It was whoever, whoever destroyed him, destroyed him in an almost apocalyptic way. Well, I thank them profusely because it has enhanced my musical enjoyment over the past however many years he's been singing. So here is the best moment of the night. And I don't know if the audience agreed with me, but he has a song called I Can Let Go Now. And if you ever watched China Beach, anybody?

China Beach, late 80s show, Dana Delaney, no? Dana Delaney. It had this unbelievable season finale where the characters are all like 30 years older and they go to the wall in Vietnam to see the names and they just do the whole Michael McDonald song. And hold on a minute, I'm finding the lyrics. I know you know the lyrics, but so they're playing,

he's playing on Saturday night. He's got the orchestra. He's got the Hollywood Bowl orchestra. And this song actually is an orchestra kind of song. And the lyrics go, I'm going to read you the whole lyrics. I don't care if the audience is either turned off. It was so right. It was so wrong.

Almost at the same time. This is a guy in deep, deep pain. The pain and ache a heart can take, no one really knows. When the memories cling and keep you there till you no longer care and you can let go now. Oh, Kyle's welling up. It's wrong for me to cling to you. Somehow I just needed time. From what was to be, it's not like me to hold somebody down. But here we go. Here's the key part. But I was tossed high by love. I almost never came down. Only to land here where love's no longer found, where I'm no longer bound.

And I can let go now. And then that's it. It's an emotional song. He plays this in front of 20,000 people with the orchestra. Wearing captain's hat. Wearing captain hats. And almost all of them are like, what the orchestra. Wearing captain's hats. Wearing captain hats. And almost all of them are like,

what the fuck's going on right now? And then there was a select few like me was like, oh my God, this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen. I can't believe he's going here. I still think he's thinking about that lady. Whoever the I can let go now lady. I think when Facebook came around in 2006, 2007, he probably friended her.

He reconnected with her. Yeah, maybe there were a couple DMs back and forth, and now he's just monitoring her Facebook, even though she's in her mid-50s living in Monterey, or mid-60s. But amazing moment. I wish you were there for that one. I think you would have liked it.

I wish I was there for the whole thing, but thank God for technology. I watched every song both nights on the internet. So I was with you in spirit. So it ended with What a Fool Believes, the iconic, iconic isn't even a strong enough word, Doobie Brothers song, and one of the Yacht Rock Pinnacle songs.

And he kicked a verse to Kenny. Kicks a verse to Kenny. Kenny comes out and tries to bring the energy. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, here's Christopher Cross, and he came out. And it was a Yacht Rock jam. It was a Yacht Rock orgy. And that's how we ended the concert.

They didn't give him a verse, right? They just gave him a guitar solo. They gave him a guitar solo and some extra cash. They gave him like 40 bucks. Yeah. Extra to come out. Christopher Cross is, unfortunately, he's like the guy in Beavis and Butthead

who always wore the wing shirt, or like Merman in the He-Man cartoon. He's the guy that nobody really wanted to hang out with, but knew a little bit too much about music, and so we let him hang around. Poor Christopher Cross. That's not so bad for Christopher. So this is what I realized at this concert,

because they filled it to the gills. 20,000 people. And I actually got tickets on SeatGeek because I found out 24 hours before the concert, this is where SeatGeek really shines. And don't know, what is stopping Yacht Rock Palooza at this point? There's more people, right? Robert Palmer can come and sing his two songs and we can bring back- Now you're out over your skis. No. Rupert Holmes. It's called Yacht Rock because of Southern California sailing culture. And you just saw a show in Southern California where the artist went back to playing 2,000 seat or 1,500 seat casinos. No, but this thing, I'm going the other way.

I'm thinking big. I'm thinking we get like 12, 13 of these acts together and it's like a six hour jam that you do it at the Hollywood Bowl. Then you do it in San Diego. You do it in Monterey. You just go like a four. By the way, you're not going to that? You're not going to that? I'm going to that, but I think it's just you and me.

No, it's not. And bottles of Chardonnay. No. Think about how hard would the announcer have to work for that concert? It's like, Eric Carman, Rupert Holmes, Starland Vocal Band, one night only. First of all, you're just being a tough guy right now. You would be at Yacht Rock Palooza in five seconds. No, I am going to be there.

I'm just suggesting it's not the best business model for the promoter. Are we inviting Toto to Yacht Rock Palooza? Toto is absolutely in. Toto was the last great Yacht Rocker. I think the cutoff is Michael Jackson's Thriller album, which came out in November of 1982. Toto's Africa album, which is 100% Yacht Rock, came out like two months before that. That was the last great Yacht Rock album. Michael Jackson's Thriller album changed music. Everything after is 80s music as far as I'm concerned. Are we inviting Hall & Oates?

Yes. You Make My Dreams is number two or three on the list of Yacht Rock songs behind, of course, every Michael McDonald song. One on one,

Rich Girl, Sarah Smile. Yes. They're all in. But Peter Cetera singing Glory of Love? No. No, that's not it.

That's 80s music. Oh, hold on. Chuck Mangione just RSVP'd. He's available. I can't imagine. What about Player? Baby, come back. Yeah, they're in, you know.

Listen, if... Super Tramp, Not Invited. I think of them as 70s music. If anyone listening who has the power to do this, to put a concert like this together, if they're listening, I'm just telling you, the audience is there. The only person who could do it is Michael McDonald, obviously,

because they all come through. You know, I will say Danger Zone, pretty good. Here's a Kanye of the late 70s. Danger Zone, pretty good in concert, by the way. You can't dance to it. I couldn't believe he didn't close with it until I went, because he went, he did I'm All Right, then Danger Zone, then he closed with Footloose.

And I was like, what? Danger Zone's a bigger song. But then I saw him on stage, and man, the geriatric moves to Danger Zone just did not work. I'm glad he closed with Footloose, so he could at least do the little dance on stage. Live, you got to finish with Footloose. The other classic for me was the people in the little box next to us

who brought Sea Smoke and Silver Hill and just brought like all these A-list wine bottles and started talking to us. And the guy confessed to us that in 1985 he did tequila shots with Kenny Loggins at the Grammys. It's great. What else would I want from a night out with my wife than stories like that in the sight of Christopher Cross? It was really magical.

I wish you had gone. I am so mad that I didn't, and next time I need to know more than 24 hours before a show. Yeah. All right, so Yacht Rock Channel, Channel 70. I am available for Labor Day yet again. I'll even bring Nathan as my co-host. And we can bang out.

And we want to do two hours this time, that one. Don't skimp us out with one hour. We're ready for two this time. I want to do 20 Yacht Rock songs. Questlove has a 600 song playlist. We can do two hours. Yeah. By the way, if you invite Questlove over us,

that's your fault. He's going to play Billy Joel and Peter Cetera, Power of Love and all that stuff. Yeah, Michael Jackson. He's going to play Eddie Money. It's going to be terrible. Questlove, you don't know anything

about Yacht Rock. Here's where the Yacht Rock experts are right here. Nathan Hubbard, enjoy your vacation. I'll see you soon. Thanks, both. All right. Thanks to Nathan.

Thanks to Denzel. Thanks to ZipRecruiter. Don't forget to try them out at ZipRecruiter.com. Don't forget to go to TheRinger.com. We premiered The Ringer's 11 trailer today. Oh, yeah. New movie coming out. The Ringer's 11.

And also the best movie trailers of the last 30 years. You can vote right now on the bracket that we put up back later in the week with more until then I don't have a few years

with him on the wayside I'm a person never lost And I don't have to ever