The Bill Simmons Podcast - Did the Lakers Scare Everyone Away? Was Detroit Drunk? Plus, More NBA Questions With Jackie MacMullan

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Jackie MacMullan to discuss a whirlwind of NBA free-agency moves and trades as they look ahead to the rapidly approaching NBA season (3:00). Then Bill gives out his Million-Dollar NFL Picks for the Thanksgiving games (1:30:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coming up, we're going to break down the 10 pivotal questions coming off an NBA free agent signing draft frenzy with Jackie McMullen plus million dollar picks. That's next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sports book is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good. I think the Chargers are going to be good. I think Seattle's going to be good. And then trying to back what you think in those first few weeks and then zag the other way. If you were wrong, you could bet on new and fun markets on FanDuel, like to catch a pass, same game parlays, highest scoring game

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That is going to go up Wednesday night and you can put on your headphones during Thanksgiving. If you want to get away from your family and listen to me and Jackie talking about Kevin Garnett, she's coming up in a second. So is million dollar picks first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Jackie McMullin is here. It is Tuesday morning Pacific time. We are sifting through the wreckage of an NBA draft, some crazy free agency signings. I wanted to play 10 burning NBA questions.

Oh, I love those games. Go through them all. Yeah. All right. So here's my first one. Yeah. The Lakers add Montrezl Harrell, Dennis Schroeder, Wes Matthews, Marc Gasol.

They keep KCP. They lose number 28, Rondo Bradley, Howard, McGee. Was this the only contender that actually got better? Because I feel like they're better. They are better with the caveat because I've thought a lot about this. They are better. Schroeder was a great upgrade really over Rondo. And I know we both love playoff Rondo, but he wanted too much money and Atlanta overpaid to get him. And we all understand why that happened. Because if you're Atlanta, you have to overpay.

And that's how you get Rondo to go there. So that's fine. I love Marc Gasol. He might be one of my favorite NBA players of all time because he's so cerebral. He's one of the best defensive players. If you watch him play defense, he's one step ahead of everybody else. He knows what's going to happen before it happens. He's just a great defensive player.

And he's an adult. What's that? He's an adult compared to JaVale and Dwight. He's a professional. 100%. Such an adult. They won't have any problems with him. In fact, I already have people in Philly saying to me, what do you think about Dwight Howard? I'm like, yeah, good luck, fellas.

Because he's nuts. And Gasol, now he did fall off a cliff. His three-point shooting, especially in the bubble, was just horrendous. And more concerning, I think, he just doesn't want to shoot it anymore. Maybe he never wanted to shoot it to begin with. Remember all the way back in Memphis, they made him shoot it. And then he got pretty good at it. But I think instinctively, it's not really something he wants to do. But I still love that. I love that signing. That to me was just fantastic. The only one I'm having a little pause on is Montrezl Harrell. Now, by getting Harrell and Schroeder, you get the number one and number two top bench scores in the league last year.

Do you realize that? The top two bench scores. So that's fantastic. That's great. But all the reasons the Clippers could not play Harrell down the stretch, won't some of those be the same reasons that the Lakers might have trouble playing him down the stretch? So that's my only pause. I mean, the Lakers were the winners, but so were the Trailblazers. Wait, hold on.

Hold on to the Trailblazers because I had two Laker points. Okay. On Harrell, I agree with you. It left me lukewarm, but on the other hand, great price, right? And you stole them from the other guys. Yeah. You stole them from the other guy, but also like I do, they've been pretty honest already about that.

They're going to be really careful with LeBron and maybe even Davis too, the first two, three months of the season. And at some point, like you mentioned, they got the two best bench scorers. They're going to actually be able to create offense, which they couldn't do last year if LeBron and Davis weren't out there. They have these third game and four nights in some crappy

city like Minnesota and they'll be like, yeah, well let's rest LeBron and we'll just run pick and rolls with Harrell the whole game. I thought the reason the Clippers had to get rid of him was you can't play him against the two teams you're trying to beat. You're trying to be Denver and the Lakers and he's unplayable. I think for the, for the Lakers,

he's somebody that can be back to what he was when he was really good. It was a bench guy. I don't think he plays crunch time. You know, the Gasol Matthews switches for green. That's great. Yeah. That was a more reliable version of Rondo Bradley. Basically, the Gasol, Matthews switches for green. That's great. Yeah, that was a more reliable version of Rondo Bradley.

Basically, um, the Gasol thing, I thought he looks, I thought he looked done in the bubble. I gotta be honest, like, especially going against my team.

I don't know whether I'm overrating the bubble. And I think some guys just look bad in the bubble and whether it's like, should we pour dirt on this guy? Or if he's on a minimum salary, you're just asking him to play 15, 20 minutes against certain teams. And he's so smart. He's still good defensively. All the metrics back that up. All the other smart teams are trying to sign him. So that makes me think, all right, that's better than McGee. Well, remember this too. Wouldn't you love him guarding Jokic for you when it matters? Yes.

I mean, he's a great post defender and here's the other thing and I'm not making excuses for anybody in the bubble, but I do think we've underestimated the mental toll it took on many people, including Marc Gasol, whose parents were in Spain when the COVID was raging in that country. He couldn't get to them. He couldn't see them. He could talk to them. I don't think either one of them ever got COVID, but they were very much at risk. I think he had a lot of things on his mind, honestly. And again, I think his role with Toronto was enhanced. They needed more. Toronto needed him more than the Lakers do. Does that make sense?

So what the Lakers need, I think he can provide. I love talking to him. I learn something every time I talk to him. And he's a really interesting guy in that he gets along great with his teammates. He can be tough on coaches if he doesn't think coaches are doing things the right way. He loved Nick Nurse. They got along great. But go back in his history a little bit.

And I don't mean to say he's a troublemaker or anything like that. I think he's just a really smart guy that's very honest with coaches when he thinks they're not doing the right thing. I think Frank Vogel will be fine with that. I think Frank will be perfect for that. I think it was less important for the Lakers to get him, even though I think he's going to really help them. But a couple of the other teams that wanted him,

the Mavericks, they kind of stood pat for the Lakers to get him, even though I think he's going to really help them. But a couple of the other teams that wanted him, you know, the Mavericks. Right. They kind of stood pat for the most part. They didn't take any huge swings. They moved some salaries around. They got James Johnson back, which I think they needed to do

because they needed a Luka. They needed a Luka protector, which I think they knew after the playoffs. He's probably the toughest guy in the league. But I think Gasol really would have helped Dallas.

I think the Lakers he'll help, but he's also a luxury for them. right? Deep down they know, you know, whatever he gives them is awesome, but they can survive if it turns out he's semi-washed up, he'll still be an awesome guy to have around and things like that. They just seem more, they seem more professional to me. I think they won in the bubble, despite that they had some, some nut jobs on that team. You know, even like Deion Waiters and JR. Yeah. It was a very, you know, kind of rowdy team. And I think now maybe Harrell is the only guy they have

as a little bit of a character. Everybody else is gone. Well, and I'll be interested to see how LeBron and Gasol do. I would think there would be a great mutual respect there. But I'll be interested to see how they, because again, if LeBron misses an assignment and starts yelling at the guy next to him, like Gasol's not going to put up with that. That's not how he rolls. And I think that'll be really good for the Lakers, honestly. Yeah. And the other thing, Portland's going to have to be

one of the teams they get through. And that is somebody that gives them legitimate Nerkich insurance, you know I think I think what they learned in the playoffs that year was ultimately when they really had to beat a good team the McGee Howard guys just those just weren't options and yeah I mean JaVale McGee's like one of those little uh fireworks you used to light off that like blew up for like two seconds and you're like wow and then you go, wait, that's it? Cause he's tired now. He's got to go to the bench, you know?

Yeah. And some of that's physical, physical stuff that he has, but. I think they're going to miss Rondo, but I also agreed that they couldn't keep them at the price. I think the funniest thing about the way, first of all, the fact that I'm complimenting the Lakers is amazing, but I love that Magic Johnson did the tweet about what a, what a job by Rob Polenka, executive of the year. It's like you were literally driving a car over him 15 months ago and then backing up the car over his lifeless body and then driving it over again.

And now trying to pretend that never happened. Like, what are you doing, Magic? Yeah, but that's been going on for a while. That whole redo, that's been. Hey, isn't it time to give Rob Palenka some credit I think it is I think it is

it is well I mean I still feel like I can't believe they gave up all they gave up for Davis when they were

the only suitor and they were getting him in a year but it worked out and they won the title so he can't be criticized for that yeah what are you

going to say yeah and I think what he just did was really where we start to start really determining

as a GM how he is. And those moves were good moves. They were solid across the board. And I think you could make the case that they were the only contender that actually got better. But I guess that leads us to Portland. This is my next question because I'm a little more lukewarm on what Portland did than other people. Why does the NBA media love Neil O'Shea so much? You're a member of this media. Every year, it's like Neil O'Shea, it's a big party for everything he does. Here's what they did. They added Robert Covington. Yeah, I like Robert Covington. Me too. Harry Giles, he won't play when it matters. Derek Jones couldn't play for four rounds for Miami.

Cantor was unplayable for the Celtics. They kept Carmelo, which I think is, in a weird way, kind of dangerous, even though I know he's an important background locker room guy. I thought he earned it. And then Rodney Hood

for 21 million coming off in Achilles. They lost two picks. I guess if you're going to say here's what they did, Covington is a crunch time guy for them. Their crunch time now

is Nurkic, Nurkic, Covington, Trent, Lillard, McCollum is a nice crunch time. The problem for me with Covington is a crunch time guy for them. And their crunch time now is Nurkic, Covington, Trent, Lillard, McCollum is a nice crunch time. The problem for me with Covington, he's had some pretty severe no-shows in the playoffs. He was terrible for Philly against the Celtics that one year. And I thought in the Lakers series, all the stuff he was supposed to be doing, he didn't really do in that series. So I haven't seen him come through. And why are people always passing him around like he's a Yankee swap Christmas gift?

Yeah, that is a tough thing. And I think it affects you when people keep trading you because you start to get comfortable in a place and then you're on the move again and it's hard to establish yourself. And I think defensively, he's had trouble because I think he's been injured. I was talking to a GM day before yesterday who said, I love Covington as long as he's finally healthy. And I said, well, why? What are we talking about there? And he said, no, it's just knick-knack, knick-knack, knick-knack.

But when knick-knack, knick-knack follows you from every place and you can't be reliable night in and night out when you're supposed to be a guy that's a perimeter defender that scares people, you got to be healthy to be able to do that. And I know a team, I know at least one team a year ago that was afraid to trade for him because of the medical stuff. So whether he's going to be healthy or whatever, but I just think I like their, their five now, but they paid, you know, they gave up two first round picks that 16th pick in this draft that could have been

Bay from Villanova. Like that actually was a pretty nice pick. I'm excited to see him in the NBA, aren't you? Yeah. I don't follow the colleges as closely as I'd like because I'm trying to keep track of the NBA, but he just excites me. He's going to be fun. So they're kind of all in with this team, which leads me to my third question.

If you were doing your top five in the West right now, I think Portland's in the top three. And you would probably have it Lakers, Clippers, Blazers, Nuggets. With Clippers, Blazers, Nuggets in some order. See, I'd have the Nuggets above the Blazers. Okay. Would you have the Nuggets ahead of the Clippers?

No. No, I thought... So, you know, the Nuggets are a little bit confusing some of the things they did. So, you know, all along we heard that they got to keep two of their three big guys out of Plumlee, Grant, and Paul Millsap. They want to keep two of the three. And the most important one, you could argue, was Grant. I understand from what I've been told, the reason he's not with them anymore is he wanted a bigger role. It wasn't just the money. He wanted a bigger role on that team. And I'm not sure, it was fantastic in the postseason, I get that. But going forward, who are your top three stars in your mind, in my mind, in your mind? It's the two obvious ones, Jokic and Murray. And then let's see what Michael Porter Jr. really is. And maybe for Jeremy Grant, that's what tipped the scales. But they lost him and they lost Plumlee.

And Plumlee's an easy punching bag. I get that. But he has value as a backup center. Now, I think they overpaid for him. And Denver probably didn't want to do that. But then they had to scramble a bit. They re-signed Millsap. I don't know how much Millsap has left. You were talking about Gasol. I think Millsap's similar there. He's in a similar position. You'd love his veteran presence. He's a great teammate. He does everything right. But how much can he still do is the question. He looked a little spent in the playoffs, but I think he was still weirdly important. And it was also interesting. The smart teams were after him too, right? Dallas, Boston. Well, you stumbled into my fourth question. We can go back to the third one.

But my takeaway was this question. Is Denver waiting until 22 or 23 to make their run? Because clearly they assessed it and said, well, even if we overpay to keep Jeremy Grant, we still don't have enough. We're not going to, we're not going to beat these guys. We're probably better off. We have the RJ Hampton, who knows if he's going to make, but, but we'll roll the dice with him. We have Porter. We give

Porter a much bigger role. I here's my thing with Grant. I think, and this happens sometimes that I remember writing about it 15 years ago, David West was the first guy for me where everybody talked about how underrated David West was all first guy for me where everybody talked about how underrated David West was all the time. He's so underrated. And then he weirdly started to become overrated. And there was this little like two years. That's what happened to Chris Middleton. It's Chris Middleton. So this will happen from time to time. And I think with Grant, he was awesome as this one year rental at 9 million bucks. But, but then people started to think he was indispensable. I thought he got demolished by the Lakers.

And I think his defense is, I think people think he's this awesome 3 and D guy. I'm not sure defensively he's that good. And then offensively is kind of where more of his value is, but you would never say he's like an elite scorer or anything. Well, no. LeBron like toyed with him. Now, granted, that's LeBron.

He's one of the three best players ever, but he had no chance against him. So if he can't guard LeBron, why am I paying him 60 million? Well, see, now you're sounding like Tim Connolly. You can understand why it went the way it did. And so I'm not criticizing them for letting him go. I understand that,

especially the financial implications of it. But it did end up catching them. Remember Torrey Craig? They had to pull back their offer on Torrey Craig, who's just a nice little piece. You know, the problem with the Nuggets is they drafted way too well. I mean, like they couldn't afford Malik Beasley anymore.

That's why they had to trade him. And then Minnesota overpaid for him. But again, you have to because it's Minnesota. So you got to overpay. Just like, and I'm sure we'll get to this at some point, Charlotte overpays Gordon Hayward. When you're in that market, you have no choice but to overpay for players like that. But Malik Beasley, and he's got some legal trouble.

To say the least. Yes. But I mean, I think he's a really good player and you had to move on for him. And that's the problem Denver has when you draft so well. And Tim Conley's drafted as well as anybody. Yeah, my guess is they assessed this and said, we're not winning if we bring everybody back. We can buy some time with one year for Millsap. And really, the way that we

jump a level is if Porter is awesome. If he is exactly what we hope he is, yeah. If he's not a jughead. He can't be a jughead every three out of four games, though. You know, like, so we'll see. All right, we're going to take a break

then talk about the top five in the list. This episode is brought to you by Movember. The mustache is back with a vengeance. Look at Travis Kelsey. Before he rocked that Super Bowl ring, he rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things, too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but He rocked that super soup strainer. Grow a mustache for Movember. You'll do great things too. You won't win the Super Bowl, but your fundraising will support mental health,

suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you could still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. I mentioned top five in the West before. So it's Lakers, Clippers, and then you have Nuggets, Blazers.

I think I might have Blazers, Nuggets because I think the Nuggets are a little worse. What's interesting is the Rockets drop out no matter how this whole thing plays out. They just do. But the Suns... Oh, they're so fun all of a sudden. The Crowder signing... Guys, I didn't

like their 10th pick. I thought they should have traded back. I thought that was weirdly front office malpractice. Just take those Celtics picks. You're going to get your guy at 14 anyway. Get all these extra picks. What are you doing? Then they get Crowder, who I thought was going to get severely overpaid by somebody,

especially after the Marcus Morris for $64 million. Crowder, they get him for $3 for $30. They're able to get Sarge back for $3 for $27. They got Chris Paul. Whether Jalen Smith makes it or not, he at least can be like a ninth, tenth man. And then you just have to hope Booker keeps going up. The arrow keeps going this way.

And that's potentially a top five team. So I was hard on Sarver with the trading a future first. Right. Just to basically be a playoff team. It's like, I don't want to be an eight seed. But now after the Crowder thing, I'm like, eh, if Booker makes a jump, could that be a top five team in the West? What do you think?

I think five is a little high just because everything's got to break right. You do have to have Booker keep going. And Crowder on the Phoenix Suns is different than Crowder on the Miami Heat because Crowder on the Miami Heat has very specific roles. Remember early on, my God, he couldn't make a three-pointer to save his life, but they could still roll them because he was tough. He was big. He could defend.

He could bother people. And you had other people that could come in and shoot threes for you. They're going to be asking a lot more of him in Phoenix. Can he do it? I'm not 100% sure. Well, the one thing I like with him, and this is, I think Miami is going to really miss this.

He, his underrated skill, and he did this in Boston too, was his ability to, you could go small with him, and this is, I think Miami is going to really miss this. His underrated skill, and he did this in Boston too, was his ability to, you could go small with him at four, or he could play three and he could kind of vacillate. He was Swiss army knife. This was when I was doing my book, I thought the case for Havlicek being a little higher than some of these other guys was he had this, he's the best at this at anyone. He could be a guard or a forward and be the best at either position. So you could basically build the rest of your team knowing that whoever we have,

we could put Havlicek here or there. Crowder's not John Havlicek. Yeah, no, not at all. He allows you to basically have this malleability that I think the heater, I think they're really going to miss that. They didn't replace, Moe Harkless is not the same guy that Crowder is in that respect, and they're going to miss it. So I think for the Suns, that's a nice little chess piece to have.

I agree. And I don't know if this is getting into cutting into your 10 questions, but the most confounding thing about free agency for me was how many teams with the Miami Heat at the top of the list made decisions about players with an eye towards a future that may not exist. It just confounds me, this chase for Giannis. And I think that factored into why Jay Crowder isn't with the Miami Heat anymore. They overpaid Drogic for the one year that they gave him because I think they probably wanted Crowder to take a one-year deal, a Giannis-friendly deal. And I don't blame Crowder for not doing that. That's not his responsibility.

And now they're in a big quandary here with Bam. Now, maybe Giannis is going to make it a moot point and sign the Supermax with Milwaukee by the – was it December 20th, I think, right? Or 21st, maybe. And then – but does that mean you still give up on Giannis? Milwaukee, uh, by the, was it December 20th, I think, right. Or 21st maybe. And, and, and then, but does that mean you still give up on Giannis or do you see one more year if he can, um, you know, do it with Milwaukee? And then even though he signed the super max, he can always say,

oh, I want to move on all these things, but man, you're playing with fire by leaving band at a bio unsigned. I understand why they're doing it. And how long can you wait? Do you wait a whole nother year if you're BAM's agent? And if you're BAM, is that going to make you happy? So I had that as a top 10 question. Sorry. No, no, no, no. I'm killing you here. No, no, this is perfect.

Cause this is a good one to audible into. I actually agree with that strategy if I'm Miami and Dallas, but for something you didn't bring up yet, I don't know if I had enough to beat the Lakers, no matter what I did. Understood. So it, so you still are able to stay relevant and be in the pack.

And if something weird happens to the Lakers, if this is the year LeBron breaks down, if this is the year they get bad injury, luck, whatever you're still in the mix. But I just think Giannis is so special that if you really feel like you're in the mix for that dude, and I think it's Miami or Dallas, if he leaves, I think it's one of those two teams. And Dallas is the smarter pick as we've discussed before, because you get to be Luca and now you're going to win titles. But if it's Miami or Dallas,

and those are two teams, I actually think they might've played it the right way. I would write versus just going all in on this year where you're probably not winning the title anyway. All right. So let me play devil's advocate though. So now Bam Adebayo was a revelation. We agree. He's,

he's one of the top 10 young players in the league. I don't think that's a stretch to say. So he says to you, I want to get paid. And you say, we're going to wait and we're trying to wait so you can win a championship with Giannis. And I believe, I just learned this yesterday. I did not know this. Rachel Nichols told me that Giannis and Bam had the same agent. I didn't know that. So that's interesting. Anyway, so you say, well, we're going to wait. And if you're Bam out of bio and you almost had

your shoulder ripped off and you played through it, are you going to play a whole nother year and risk injury because you're waiting for something that may or may not happen? If you're Bam out of bio and you're Bam out of bio's agent, are you really going to let that happen? I think it's a really interesting question. Well, you also saw Tatum got taken care of. Super Max Mitchell got taken care of. Right. And then who was the third guy that somebody else got taken care of too? Or am I, or was it just those two? Either way, he's looking at those two guys and he's like, well, I went against Tatum in a conference, in a conference finals, and I was the best player in that series. So that, so that's the, that's the other side of it. And it's, you know, I always, I always used to think, well,

these guys that can gamble on themselves and I just, this is going way, way back. But I just remember I, when I was with sports illustrated sitting down with Grant Hill, when he was with the Pistons, is he with the Pistons? I think he was. Yeah. And we were talking about, he had all sorts of options. He could opt out. He could gamble for a year, whatever. And he's like, ah, you know, what if I got hurt? That's what happened.

You know? Right. That's what happened. Well, Bam did get hurt last year. He did. So anyway. It's recoverable. Right, right.

So you hope it is. But like, you know, Grant Hills was never the same as we all know. I think the difference for me with this is that Giannis has a chance to be a generational superstar. Right. This isn't like rolling the dice with Dwight Howard in 2014 or something. This is the level of KD in 2016.

Or if Davis had become a free agent this year. So I see it from their side, but I really do think, I think the Lakers put a lot of fear into these other teams, how dominant they were in the bubble. Cause they were. And if you're just looking at it from afar and you're thinking like, man, as long as those two dudes are healthy, we're probably not beating them. So in a weird way, that was, that adds to why they had such a good off season. I feel like they scared off the nuggets in the heat a little bit.

You know, then the Rockets have completely discombobulated. That was another team in their way. And then the other reason the Lakers win the offseason, and this is sad, but Klay going down just removes the Warriors as a contender, right? They're just out now. Yeah, and you know, you wonder if they're out sort of permanently because it's just such a long

way back now from the other, like this is even more devastating than the ACL tear. There's no worse injury than Achilles. People don't come back the same from it. Ask Wes Matthews and he probably was the closest one to coming back from, you know, it's just a devastating injury. And again, it's another year in your prime, which is why they, they did what they did and went after Kelly Uber, because they can't, I don't feel like they feel like they can squander another year of Draymond and Steph Curry in their prime. They got to try to go for it here for whatever that means. I actually, I was, I don't feel like I'm talking

out of school with Steve Kerr here. Cause we were texting a little bit about it, talking about that five-year window. He's talked about that publicly, about the miles that they put on those five years. And I was saying on my pod last week, I always try to bring everything back to the mid-80s Celtics if I can, if there's an opportunity. But, you know, I look back at, and you were covering

them, 84, 85, 86, 87, the wear and tear. Not just all the playoff games, but Casey Jones playing those dudes like 46 minutes in February. And leaving Reggie Lewis on the bench. Right. And by the time we got to 88, and that was kind of the end of that five-year run,

that whole team just broke down, everybody. And I do wonder with the Warriors, like you think Durant breaks down as that 2019 postseason's going, Klay breaks down twice. Right. And Draymond does not... Draymond doesn't look athletically as dominant as he did maybe five years ago.

And you just think, like, are NBA teams meant to have five-year runs like that? Probably not. Probably not. And again, you know, that mid-80s team, as you know, the bench was thin. Whether it was thin because KC made it that way or they really just didn't,

you know, choose to play young players, which was kind of the norm back then. But you're talking about McHale on a broken foot and they're telling him you can't play on this foot anymore. You're going to be, you're going to be deformed. Like this will never be right. And, you know, he needs fusion surgery. He won't have it because too stubborn, but, and then Bird, it was the next year he had the, he, it wasn't even his back. Remember he had double heel surgery. I mean, he only played eight games, I think that year. And then Parrish is the one that held up the best, ironically, because he took a pretty good beating, but he had ankle issues, shoulder, but he never had a knee issue. So that's why he could keep going. I don't, when you talk about these little mini dynasty runs, because I don't think the Warriors were a dynasty, but they were like a mini dynasty there for five, six years.

You don't think they were a dynasty? Well, what do you call a dynasty? I'm pushing back on that. I don't know. I call it dynasty. I think it's got to be a decade, personally. That's a long time. Short-term dynasty.

Dynasty is like we throw that around too much. We've only had a couple dynasties. Okay, but then the Celtics weren't a dynasty either then. Which one? Of the 80s, if you're going a whole decade. Because they split it with the Lakers. They kind of like were each half dynasties. Well, yeah.

So, all right. Just being clear. I feel like the Auerbach Celtics were the only dynasty we've really ever had. But like the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, they weren't a dynasty. They were like a mini dynasty. They were dominant for five years. They could have been a dynasty. Yeah, they could have been a dynasty but I think if you go through

NBA history there's no no team that I could come up with that had a run like even like what the Warriors had

what about the Bulls what about the Bulls no no I'm saying like where they had bad injury luck oh oh oh and then bounce back and then it extended it

for a couple more years oh right I think these are really bad omens for you know now Curry's in his 30s Klay's gonna be in his 30s Draymond back and then extended it for a couple more years. I think these are really bad omens for... Now Curry's in his 30s. Klay's going to be in his 30s. Draymond will be in his 30s in his second.

They really need either Wiggins or Wiseman or both to really surprise us. And I think Wiseman might have the potential. I don't think Wiggins does. Wiggins doesn't. Maybe Kelly Oubre does. You know, you got him for a year to figure that out.

What is he, 24? Yeah. So I looked it up because I was curious about him. When he was in Washington, he was one of the worst defenders in the league. He's improved dramatically. I looked at his defensive numbers. And defensive numbers are very subjective.

They're really hard to even, you know, every person I've ever talked to when I'm writing stories, they're like, any defensive metrics you have, don't even use them because they don't really tell you what they're supposed to tell you. They're really fraught with peril. But, you know, the eye test tells us Kelly Oubre has gotten to be a better defender. And I think the way the Warriors play, if he can be a perimeter pest up there, you know, he certainly has the wingspan and the length and the athleticism and the quickness to do that because he's not a, you know, people should not expect him to be Klay Thompson. He's a, I think he's a 33% career three-point shooter. Now he was up around 35% last year. That's decent. But he does other things for you. He can, you know, he can help you off the

ball. He can drive to the, there's other things he can do, but to plug him in and say, okay, you be clay Thompson. I mean, that, that people are, that's a mistake. I think they could patch together 85% of his stats. Right. And, and if anything, as a regular season team, I actually don't think they're going to be, you know, I'm not writing them off. I just don't think they can like beat the Lakers in a playoff series, but I do think they could sneak into top five potentially if they can patch together. His stats are going to miss his defense. But the X factor for them, and it's weird to call him an X factor,

but Curry's a generational superstar. And we haven't seen him in this situation where he has to carry that kind of offensive load, especially in a shortened season. In his prime, he's always had help in other places. They're going to miss Thompson's ability to, you know, just the fear he brings in, almost like a wide receiver

where you're just always, the defense always worried about him. But they could patch it together. They have good coaching. They got a couple of good rookies last year that I think will be able to help them. I'm not writing them off, but I'm sad because I do think... It's heartbreaking. With Clay, I think they could have battled

the Lakers. I really do. Clay's just like... He's just such a pro. He never cared about the limelight. Just went out, did his job. He was just so great to be around. It made me sick to my stomach when I heard this. Really did. Do you think he has

the highest... I asked this last week, but I'll ask you. Do you think he has the highest approval? I asked this last week, but I'll ask you. Do you think he has the highest approval rating of any NBA star with fans and media? It just seems like he's beloved across the board. I'm trying to think of anybody else who's like that. Yeah, I think he is that way, and it's because he doesn't ask for it. He doesn't invite it.

So yeah, I do think, honestly, and he's not nearly at the caliber of him, is there anybody in this world that doesn't like Fred Van Vliet? Because I haven't met him or her. I haven't met that person. Because the kid goes from being undrafted to getting $85 million and deserves every penny of it. And looks like your next door neighbor that you used to shoot hoops with like in the third grade. So I think that's why,

and it's the same reason why everyone fell in love with Steph Curry when he first started being good. The shooting from near half court was part of it. But the other part was that people can identify with people that look like them. Yeah. Right?

And Fred Van Vliet looks like us, you know? He's not freakishly tall. He's very talented. I don't mean to say he's not, but he looks like us. He's not freakishly tall. He's very talented. I don't mean to say he's not, but he looks like a kind of a regular guy. He also adopted, he didn't adopt it, but his mantra was bet on yourself, which has been one of my big things all decade.

I am a big, that would be my, if I ever write one of those self-help motivational books, it'll definitely be bet on myself with me on the front, like pumping my fist. All right. We got more questions coming. We're taking one more break. At Pennzoil, we have one job.

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Let's just do it now. What the hell is going on in Houston? What the hell? Well, you know what I feel bad for? I feel bad for Steven Silas. That's who I feel bad for, okay? Because he's waited his whole life for this opportunity and is well-respected throughout the league. And, and I'm mad at these players because we know there aren't enough black coaches

in the league and it isn't right. And then here's this guy gets elevated to his first chance and you're all jumping ship. It ticks me off to be honest with you. And James Harden wants out. I think they're going to hang on to him for a while. I think on opening night, I think he'll be on Houston's roster. Now, the funny thing about Houston is they signed, we were talking before about players that are underrated that can sometimes become overrated. The most underrated player in this free agency period for me was Christian Wood. I don't think people realize how good he is. And that's because he played with Detroit. And is Detroit one of your 10 questions? Because what are they doing?

Oh, it's coming. I have it nice and saved. Wonderful. Okay. So, you know, they signed Christian Wood. To me, that was just a fabulous signing. I mean, he's a good young player. And did they overpay for him?

I don't really think. Was it $41 million? No, I don't really think they did. But Westbrook, if you can move on from Westbrook, goodness gracious, go right ahead and do it. I thought they were hamstrung and we're going to be hell bent on keeping the both. It's clear to me that they wouldn't mind moving on from Westbrook. And it feels a little bit to me like James Harden wouldn't mind that either. Yeah. Boy, James really, he's like one of those

stars of the TV show that just keeps getting rid of the other characters on the show. Yeah. Like if he was like Law & Order Houston, it's like every year it's like, oh, that person left. Here's another new character.

Law & Order Houston. That's perfect. So, I mean, I think they're going to hang on to him and maybe it becomes untenable. Maybeames harden makes it untenable uh but you know he's one of the most i mean he's one of the most gifted scores i've ever seen in my life i wouldn't trade him either i wouldn't i have a hot take okay i kind of i kind of like what they're doing now i i don't know if they're doing it intentionally,

but I thought getting two first-round picks for Covington and then turning that money basically into Christian Wood is really smart. It is. Because I think you could make a case Christian Wood could give them everything Covington gave them and they got these two extra picks. Now, they didn't use the 16th pick, which I didn't really understand.

That seemed like a money thing to me. They flipped it for a future trade first, but now they have two first round picks. They can at least, you know, trade if they feel like they're close, if they can win over the Harden thing. I had heard, I thought Westbrook was going to Washington and I had heard that Bradley Beal,

that Bradley Beal was driving it. No, no, that Bradley Beal was driving a Westbrook thing and that they were actually going to include a pick potentially. And it wasn't just a oneok thing and that they were actually going to include a pick potentially and it wasn't just a one-for-one, that they were actually putting him more. No, you'd have to put a pick in there because John Wall hasn't played in two years.

Right. So yeah, I have my own hot take on my John Wall trade. What is it? Let's hear it now. Well, but it'll get us into Detroit, so should we just wait? Okay, yeah, save that. We'll wait, we'll wait. But I was kind of excited for Westbrook on Washington because

Beal, Westbrook, Robin Lopez. It's like, all right, that's a 43 win team. I would watch them on league pass. That's like an endlessly entertaining team. I'll say that. And they have some young players. They might get there. I just don't know when.

Westbrook to me though, it's diminishing returns because he's not the same player clearly. And he just can't seem to come to grips with who he is. And by that, I mean, you shouldn't be shooting threes, dude. Like just give it up. And he just can't come to grips with it. He wants to be the alpha and he wants to still play the way he was playing five years ago. And there's still great value, obviously, in a guy of his skill set. But you have to be willing to adjust a little bit, just like all great players do as they get older. The way LeBron has adjusted. Look how LeBron has changed the way he's played. Some of the greatest players in our game have done that. Unlike Antoine Walker, who was trying to do it

when he was in his 20s to try to play, you know, try to shoot threes like he was a 35-year-old. Go back in the post, Antoine, you know? But he didn't want to get fouled. Once his free throw shooting went south, it was over. I do love Antoine personally. I think he's just a lovely person. And, you know, he was on a bad team. He was on a team that was told to lose and to tank. They were instructed to tank. And that's just so bad. It's so toxic when you have young players who are developing and they know you're not trying to win.

Terrible. I've been trying to make that case for 12 years and everybody gets mad. I don't think it's... I think the Miami Dolphins are a good example of what they're doing right now. And it all started those last five, six games last year where they're actually like trying to build good habits.

Yeah, that's it. You know, back to the Rockets though. Yeah. So basically they lose Covington and Rivers, but they gain Christian Wood. They signed Boogie, which is an interesting flyer. Yeah, I would do that. And they got these two future firsts.

So my question as I'm thinking about them long-term is, do we overreact to Westbrook in the bubble? Because we've seen this now in football too, where these guys get COVID and some of them don't come back totally right. He definitely wasn't right. Then he got hurt. And I'm just trying to think of what Westbrook looked like in January, February, March. I actually would trade for him if I was the whiz.

And let's say I had to give up my number one pick and it was top five protected next year. It's like, all right, well, I'm going to make the playoffs or top 10 protected, whatever. I'm going to make the playoffs if I make the deal. But then this leads me to Charlotte, which is our other, what the hell are they doing team? Where Charlotte could have just traded for Westbrook and probably sent Nick Batum back and taken on money. And instead, they spent $120 million on Gordon Hayward. And I know, whatever. But given Hayward's injury history

and the fact that he's hitting a different stage of his career age-wise, that seems so much riskier to me than just trading for Westbrook. I didn't get that. Well, I mean, they overpaid for Gordon Hayward. But as we've already discussed, if you're the Charlotte Hornets and you want somebody, you have to overpay for them. Now, they took that to a new level, I'll agree, the four years.

My guess is that the only way Gordon was going there is if you gave him the fourth year. Otherwise, he would have taken maybe less money in their sign and trade with Indiana, right? Yeah. That makes some sense. Mark Bartlestein, by the way, he's just one of the best in the business to get Gordon that contract yet again. It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. He's such a good agent. He played chicken with Danny Ainge, and I think

Ainge kept waiting for Bartlestein to just steer away, and Bartlestein's like, no, I'm coming straight at you. You better listen to me. I'm going to take him. But I think the Celtics thought it was the Knicks, and they didn't realize it was the Hornets. I don't know. They should know that. I'm going to take them. Right. But I think the Celtics thought it was the Knicks. They didn't realize it was the Hornets. Well, I don't know that they should know that.

I, I will say this with the, with the injury history and, and I might be a fool for saying this, but I still, I think the injuries of Gordon Haywood had, had been freakish injuries. You know,

it's not like someone with a bad knee, like Kyrie's had how many surgeries on his knees. It's not like that. It's like, I mean, there's no, right. There's no worse freakish injury than the first one. Right. And then I think your body isn't quite right. Cause I don't think that ankle maybe will ever be quite a hundred percent.

Right. And then you have all just like you break these bones. I mean, there were freak injuries. So before he got to Boston and had these series of freak things happen to him, he was a very durable player. Yeah. And I think, you know, I do, I know as a matter of fact that Charlotte of course has some concerns about his durability, but they need leadership. They need someone that can, you know, make LaMelo Ball think there's hope there and that there's a chance. So by overpaying for Gordon Hayward, maybe you're appeasing LaMelo Ball and

hoping that he wants to build with you there. And Gordon Hayward, Maybe you're appeasing LaMelo Ball and hoping that he wants to build with you there. And Gordon Hayward, I still think, I still believe, whoops, I'm going to kill my little thing here. I still believe Gordon Hayward can be a 20-point-a-game scorer. I believe that. I really do. So the case for the signing is the seven games he played last season before he broke us in. Yeah. He had 39, I think, against Chicago. Yeah. And you don't even need that from him. He was 20 a game. He was starting to attack the basket again. And it was like, oh, maybe that was a two-year injury. Then he gets hurt twice. Right. And he was their best facilitator last year. I mean, and that's the part, that's what the Celtics will miss. It's not going to show up. He had a lot of hockey assists.

He made the pass that made, the great pass that made the other guy make the easy pass for the for the layup or the score and the other guy gets the assist i mean you know say what you want about gordon hayward i'm not exactly sure why he wants to end up in charlotte but that's his business uh i do think it was hard for him to accept the role that he accepted last year less shots everything It was very difficult for him. I think it was difficult for his family, I should say. And I think he just thought, you know what?

I want to spread my wings. I think I can still be an all-star. All that's fine. I will say this about him. Did you ever hear him complain? Did you ever read about him complaining? He never did. And there was always this weird dynamic right from the beginning when Jalen Brown, not even this year, past year, started his ascent. And it became apparent like,

okay, maybe Jalen Brown's the number three, not Gordon Hayward. I think there was always friction between their camps, people that were in their camps. But I never saw friction between them as teammates. And I think that's a credit to both of them. Honestly. I think the one thing that really got lost with him was his defense just dropped. And I don't think it was ever the same with his ankle. And I really thought, I know he was hurt in the bubble last year, but he was supposed to come in and at least be an upgrade over the crappy swing men they got. And I don't know. He shouldn't have been playing.

He shouldn't have been playing. Honestly, he should have been playing. Yeah. But once you play, you have to be prepared. You have to be prepared for take the criticism. If you go up there,

once you put the uniform on, you go out there, you're fair game to, you know, anybody that wants to take you on. It was time for him to go. I don't blame him for leaving. I still think we're going to look back at this three years the Celtics had and just be like, wow.

You think like they signed Horford, Hayward, pull off the Kyrie trade in basically a 14-month span. Plus, they have these incredible Brown Tatum assets. And Marcus Smart. They're all in rookie contracts. Right. And you just think like it's kind impossible. They didn't make the finals. But, but think about this.

You just named the three guys, Kyrie, Horford, Hayward. What did they, what did they get for him? They all walked bill. That is not a good sign.

And I don't know why that is. I mean, Kyrie. Well, come on. We can't compare Kyrie to normal human beings, but, but,

but Al Horford walking away. Now, I guess he thought he was going to have a better chance of winning a championship with Philly, which has ended up being pretty laughable because, you know, they were a complete disaster. And he was at the epicenter of why they were a disaster. He needs a new home. I'm glad he has a new home. I don't think I wouldn't be surprised if OKC flips him again. Yeah. I'm not, you know, if they can.

But with that contract, it's going to be hard. But the fact that he left. Now, I just kept thinking, is he leaving because he thinks Kyrie's staying and he can't take the madness anymore? But he must have known that Kyrie. I think he knew Kyrie was leaving. I mean, we all knew, right? We all knew. So Al Horford leaving. Because that's, you know, originally we thought the money was really great.

And then we learned later that the third year wasn't, was only partially guaranteed. It wasn't fully guaranteed. So it wasn't. So that's, that was, that set off an alarm with me. Like Al Horford's, by all accounts, a great teammate, a good guy, doesn't make waves. So why, why is he one out of there? And now another guy, Gordon Hayward, good guy, good teammate, doesn't make waves. Why are these guys leaving?

I have an incredible theory on this, but we're going to take a break. All right. Jackie left us with the question, why are these guys leaving Boston? I think this is a real issue for the Celtics. Danny Ainge, the GM, who's been running the team for the last 15 years, one of the best things about him as a GM is he

has no loyalty in anybody. He's going to do whatever move it takes to get it done. He wants to win a title. And everyone around the league knows that. I think we've hit a point with him specifically where the word is now out with the players and the agents, like don't feel safe in Boston. The fact that they're trying,

you know, they were kind of quietly shopping Kemba around there this off season. They definitely were receptive to Hayward signing trade and all that kind of stuff with him. I think putting Isaiah in that Kyrie deal kind of changed how the league looks at the Celtics. And I think that's something they have to reckon with a little bit. Like this is how we're perceived around the league as a team that over and over again, we'll trade your ass the moment they can improve you into a slightly better asset. So now it didn't matter to Tatum. It didn't matter to Brown. They both resigned. So you got to mention that, but I do think they're the one team. I think the other one, Dallas is another

one that I think for whatever reason, players seem to be hesitant to go there. And I don't know whether it's the agents who, because Cuban was so close with Dan Fagan once upon a time, whether the other agents kind of carry that residue, but it is interesting to me that Boston and Dallas have trouble keeping guys or have some sort of stigma to them. What do you think of that? Well, so I think that is a good theory. And there was a huge outrage when Isaiah Thomas got traded.

But I was like, are you guys paying attention? He got traded for Kyrie Irving. Right. I mean, to me, it was such a no-brainer. But he played hurt for them that playoffs. He did. He did. I'm not arguing with any of that.

And I think that, I think to players, especially in the player empowerment era and how sensitive everybody is, I think they saw that Isaiah Thomas thing and that did not go over well around the league. I know it didn't. I've had people tell me that. No, no. We heard it. We heard it loud and clear. But I will say this too.

The Isaiah Thomas with the hips and all the stuff he went through, the medicals on him when he came to Boston, they were aware. They're aware of that. That was not something that happened. He had a bad collision, right? And that's what exacerbated it. But that condition existed on both hips. He was the most terrifying Celtic in terms of being concerned for his own welfare that I've ever rooted for because those crazy drives when he'd go barreling into the lane,

go flying off somebody, go into the basket support. Every time you're holding your breath, but that was just how he played. All right, so here's my question to you. Here's a hot take for you. So you got to make amends. You did Isaiah Thomas wrong.

Why don't you sign him to a veteran minimum? Because you've drafted 17 guards over the last three years. Right. They have so many guards. I don't even know if he can keep track. But they, but they're like Romeo Langford. Is he ever going to play?

I mean, I don't think he's going to start the year with them again, you know? So he might be good, but who the hell knows? You know? So I'm just, I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit, but, but I think the thing with Isaiah is one thing, but I also think, I don't know if you remember this, but Jay Crowder was on the Celtics and Gordon Hayward was still with the Jazz coming to town and the fans were all cheering for Gordon Hayward. And Jay Crowder is like, what the hell, man?

I'm here. I'm playing for you right now. That was tough. That was a bad optic too. Yeah. I have a hot take for you related to the Celtics. This is not one of my 10 questions. Okay.

I actually think they're better. I've heard this from others. Really? Who? I thought I invented this one. No, I think Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe wrote something to that effect yesterday or today. I would just, look, as you just heard, I'm not being a Celtic shill

because I do think there are some issues here that they have to figure out how to deal with long-term. But I would just rather have Tristan Thompson for two years, 19, than Gordon Hayward for, I don't know, four years, 105, whatever their final offer was to him or three years, 90, whatever they offered. I think they, they can replace Hayward's minutes with smart and with hopefully this, uh, this knee Smith and kind of patch together the stats when he was, he was the fourth option. Anyway,

you don't pay your fourth option, 30 million, what they really needed. They needed Tristan Thompson. They needed him last year. He's somebody that could play crunch time. He can switch on defense. He's a good rebounder. He can run to the rim with his hands up and get little touch passes, things like that. I think he's a crunch time guy for them. I thought they were too small last year. And I think he's really good. And here's the thing with Thompson. Beloved in Cleveland. There were stories about they want to retire his number. The fans really appreciated what he did.

I think he's been in huge games. We saw a team win a title with him four years ago. And I thought him and Abaka were my two favorite signings out of everything. Yeah, Abaka I love. Although Abaka, you know, it's funny for Abaka for the Clippers, that was a, I mean, I'd rather have him than Harrell.

Yes. But here's the problem. He has a player option in 2021. So if things with the Clippers aren't really going great and Kawhi and Paul George opt out, now you can opt out too. So that's the danger of Ibaka. I love Ibaka.

That leads us to our next question. Oh, I love that when that happens. Why does it feel like the Clippers have a big move yet? So they had a Baca, they had Kennard, they lost Harrell, they lost Shamit, they lost Reggie Jackson, whatever. They paid Marcus Morris 64 million for four years, which almost made me steer my car into traffic. And I'm not even a Clipper fan. I just can't. I, if you had 30 million for four years, I would have probably been bummed out. But 64 is like just insane. That guy,

I just don't trust him at all in a playoff game. Um, but they still have the Beverly contract. They still have the Lou Williams contract. Yeah. They're not. And I assume they're going to package those two together for something. So who is it?

Who are they getting? I don't know. I don't know, but it feels like they got together for something. So who is it? Who are they getting? I don't know. I don't know. But it feels like they've got to do something. I just, there's something, and I wish I knew more about, I wasn't around them a lot because I wasn't around any team a lot because of the pandemic, but something in that locker room just wasn't right all year. A little stinky. Yeah. Paul George was acting odd, and Pat Beverly was puffing his chest out a little more than he needed to, and Kawhi Leonard, as usual, said nothing,

and it just felt a little funny to me. And then, you know, Harold leaves and says, well, I went to the Lakers because they wanted me more than the Clippers did. Like, that's not a good look for the Clippers on the way out the door either. He was unplayable in the Denver series. He was. I'm not sure what the Clippers are supposed to do at that point. Yeah.

Can I give you a trade? Okay. Yeah, I like trades. Lou Williams and Beverly. Ooh, both of them? Yeah. And we get back little Spencer Dinwiddie. I do like Spencer Dinwiddie.

You got to pay him though. And maybe Courix. And you just patch it together until basically, I think it's Beverly for Dinwiddie and Lou Williams is in the trade somehow. Or maybe you ship Lou Williams somewhere else. But just the Beverly for Dinwiddie.

Dinwiddie's not staying in Brooklyn. Dinwiddie's not going to Brooklyn. Dinwiddie's not going to be able to play with he's not going to play with Kyrie. Kyrie's going to be threatened by him. And Beverly is like

the classic I think superstars love guys like Beverly and Marcus Smart. Marcus Smart, yeah. Deep down they know they're not going to want touches. They're always going to

want to guard the toughest guy on the other team. So at least Dinwiddie for Beverly and maybe you figure out how to get Lou in that. That feels like the trade to me. So Dinwiddie is

they can't keep Dinwiddie because they don't want to pay him. They just paid Joe Harris. But the Clips are tied in now to this next summer is our great reckoning. No, no, no. Right. I mean Brooklyn can't pay Dinwiddie. Oh yeah, Brooklyn. Right. Yeah, they just can't. So I like Dinwiditty, but again, this is the game I always play. Dinwiddie on Brooklyn with no Kyrie and no KD is different than Dinwiddie playing on the Clippers

with Kawhi and Paul George. Dinwiddie is going to want some shots. Yeah. But if you're the Clippers, don't you want that? Cause one of the big things I heard coming out of the season was Kawhi was really mad. He had to like be the lead ball hand or he doesn't want to do that. Like he's had his most success with like in Toronto, Lowry, Kyle Lowry,

Vin V and he's playing off the ball. But when you needed him in a game, that's when you fed it to him. Yeah. Tony Parker, same thing. The Clippers were using him like he was, you know,

look at Donchage, which is not how you want to use them. So, um, I, other than Dinwiddie, I can't think of an available offensive point guard like that. Yeah.

You know what? I think you're onto something there. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Well, canard. I like,

and I like. And I like getting distressed. Injuries, knees, concerned about that. Fair. I like getting distressed assets from bad teams though. I like getting somebody from the Kings. I like getting somebody from the Pistons. Like Christian Wood from the Pistons, yeah. Totally. Anyway, alright. Next question.

Could you argue, this ties into the honest thing But Could I just trust Miami As a As a thinking man's franchise Understood Pat Riley

Could we look back Could we look back in a year And say they had the shrewdest offseason So basically they had Avery Bradley and Moe Harkless They were able to keep D Dragic for one year. They lose Crowder. They lose Jones, who doesn't matter

to them. Dragic has a big one-year figure that they can if something wacky happens, they can spin it. And they're basically running it back. Oh, and they brought back Leonard too on a big contract. Way overpaid him too. But they don't care. It's one year though. No, I know. And big contract. Way overpaid him, too.

But they don't care. It's one year, though. No, I know. And it's all related to this Giannis thing. I just, I just, I'm going to reiterate the worry I have about Bam out of Bios headspace. Okay, fair. Yeah, we talked about this. That's the only thing. And I don't know about Avery Bradley.

So, I like Avery Bradley. I've covered him for many, many, many years on many different teams. I don't know if he can play the way Miami is going to want him to play. Well, he's also another Yankee Christmas swap guy. Why does he keep changing teams? He's been on like 100 teams.

Well, he got this great defensive reputation right he was a defensive darling made an all-defensive team only once i think but it's because he's an unbelievable on the ball defender but bill just spent some time watching him off the ball right he gets spun around like a top so i always thought he was a little overrated defensively to be really really honest. And I mean, great on the ball, great ball hawker. But beyond that, like in everything Miami does is all about the team and you have to be on a string. And I don't know if Avery Bradley's

going to be really good at that. Just my own two cents. Well, what's audible to what was the single best signing? Here are my nominees. Okay. Crowder for three for 30 to Phoenix. Excellent. Abaka two for 19 in the Clippers with a player option.

Yeah, but the player option worries me. Tristan Thompson two for 19 to Boston. Harold two for 19 to the Lakers player option. Yeah. And Robin Lopez one for nine to Washington, which I'm still a Robin Lopez believer. I still remember that Bulls Celtics series. Yeah.

He was just completely wreaking havoc. I've always wanted to see him on a playoff team. Those were my five favorites that you have. And Christian Wood. Christian Wood. Yeah, Christian Wood to me

is one of them. You know, this is one that it's not a huge deal. But I just sneaky liked it. It was DeAnthony Melton re-signing with Memphis. And it wasn't big numbers. I don't have it in front. I don't think I have it. I thought, yeah, it was DeAnthony Melton re-signing with Memphis. And it wasn't big numbers. I don't have it in front.

I don't think I have it. I thought, yeah, it was like three for 45, three for 35. I think he's one of those like sneaky good guys that you want to hang on to. And they did. And, you know, it's not like Memphis is there yet. We know they're going to get there because they got great young talent and they're on their way. But I thought that was a really sneaky good signing too.

So those are my top six. Gordon Hayward was probably in the bottom five. And the Charlotte, the piece I don't understand with the Charlotte thing, you just were in hell with Nick Batum's contract. Right. Where you overpaid somebody who wasn't an all-star, you quickly realized it was a mistake. And then you're just in purgatory with it for three years and you can climb out of hell. Now, you're training for Hayward, hoping that that's not going to also be a terrible contract. And even worse, you're stretching Nick Batum now.

Well, the stretching was... Then it becomes a 39... 39, yeah. He's on the books for 9, 9, and nine. So next year and the year after you're paying

Hayward slash Batum. They count for 39 on your cap. Right. And also like, where are you going? Like LaMelo is going to be,

I think the most erratic guy out of all those draft picks. He's going to have games where he's just unplayable. Yeah, but he'll also have games where you're like, oh my God,

why didn't I take him? I mean, I think he's got that kind of ability. Oh, so you're higher on him than I am. I think so. Yeah, no, I like him. I think he's got, now he is going to be erratic because they're going to ask him to do a lot. But I think Gordon Hayward's going to have a good, I think he's going to have a good, I don't know about four years, but I'm going to say he's going to have a good three years in Charlotte. Remember, he signed an offer sheet there all those years ago. I think it's the kind of town that suits him and that will suit him. I think it's going to be a good marriage. Did they overpay?

Of course they did. Absolutely. But I think for both parties involved, it's the fresh start they both need. It's interesting. If I was a bad team I would do what Presti's doing

and it's funny that and Daryl had always told me this like he's like GM fantasy would be to just be horrible

with no assets whatsoever because he'd be like here's what you do and he he basically laid out exactly what Presti's doing where it's like

cool you need to get rid of Al Horford I'll take him but give me a first round pick right well like Sean Marks in Brooklyn. Give Sean Marks a lot of credit.

He's another one. He and Kenny Atkinson, what they did in Brooklyn. Same kind of thing. So I just... Daryl, imagine... How great was Daryl, though? Did you ever guess that they could move Al Horford and get Seth Curry, who's going to help them, by the way? Yeah.

I didn't love giving up Richardson, but I didn't think he fit with that team, though. No, he doesn't. Curry fits in better with what Philly does. 100%. So, like, everybody always says that, and to me, it's so short-sighted, that Embiid and Simmons can't play together.

I mean, that just isn't true. Two years ago, we have all the defensive metrics that tell us the numbers with them on together and off together. It was like a differential of like 15 points or something crazy like that. Why? Because, well, Jimmy Butler helped a tremendous amount, but because they had JJ Redick too. They had shooters around him. And so you bring Seth Curry in, you have a shooter around him. It makes a difference. This idea that they can't play together to me, I don't believe that. I just don't. So I have a twist on that theory.

I don't think they can play together with the rest of the roster that they had built last year. Okay, that's fair. This big, clumsy roster where everybody's just in everyone's way. They couldn't play together. If they're going to get back to... I'm not happy with the point guard situation still.

And I guess they're going to tell us Ben Simmons is a point guard again I personally I wish he had his own team I was really hoping Harden for Simmons would happen I just kind of wanted Ben Simmons to almost like the movie star just put him in his own movie

yeah he's so great give him his roadhouse with Patrick Swayze kind of just let him go kill some bad guys so but didn't you think it was kind of sneaky cool that he did make All-NBA? He snuck onto the third All-NBA team. Yeah, I voted for him.

Yeah, I did too. And Joel Embiid did not, by the way. Joel Embiid did not make All-NBA. Well, listen. Joel Embiid's at a reckoning. He's ready, man. I'm telling you. I'm talking to everybody around him.

He's going to have a big year. I'm predicting this right now. He needs to have his shack in 1999. He's going to have it. He's going to have a big year. I'm predicting this right now. He needs to have his Shaq in 1999. He's going to have it. He's going to have it. I really think he is because I think Doc's the perfect fit for him. He knows how to stroke him

and kick him in the rear end at the same time. And I do think that people have underestimated how often Joel Embiid has played hurt. And I think he's going to get in great shape. I might be wrong, but that's my prediction. I think he's going to have a really big year. I think he's mad that he wasn't an All-NBA champion.

He hasn't said that to me. I haven't talked to him. I'm not reporting. I'm not aggregating anything. This is just my – I'm making a supposition, if I can. And I think he's motivated. And I think, you know, it's so funny because he's so similar to Shaq. They remind me so much of each other because when they do great, you know,

it's great. When they're not doing well, well, they're not focusing enough on basketball. They're focusing too much on other things. They don't take it seriously enough. They don't take it seriously enough. And then he cries when they lose on that bouncing shot by Kawhi Leonard a couple years back. And everyone's like, well, why is he crying? He's such a baby. Well, make up your mind. Do you think he cares too much or not enough? Like, it's just when you're bigger in life, like that, those guys, you are under a different microscope than almost everybody else, including Ben Simmons. It has to be this year. I think it's going to be, I really think it's going to happen to be this year. He also, you know, that team was such a mess and there was such a mess behind the scenes.

And you think like I was texting with with somebody the other day about two years ago where, you know, after the Ringer story we did that Colangelo stepped down. Yeah. And Brett Brown was the acting GM? Like, that was two years ago.

It's insane. And that leads to that terrible Bridges, Zaire Smith, and this pick that they end up sending for Tobias Harris and sends them down

this crazy Tobias Harris pile and they could have just taken Bridges or Shea. SGA was the next pick on the board of 11. But anyway, I think. Tobias Harris, that was a killer. Well, but I think, so now Daryl's in. And Daryl is, you know, he's got some swagger to him.

He's a big guy. He's super confident in what he wants to do. He kind of knows how to play the game internally. He's somebody that Harden, who I think has had trouble clicking with certain people, and him and Harden really got along together. He loved Harden. He loves Harden more than life itself.

Right. So you have the Daryl piece of it. So now you have stability and somebody who seems like he actually has a plan, which they haven't had there forever. And then Doc, who Doc in year one can go in and just play the character

of Doc Rivers, right? He can do the interview with the 20 media guys before some shitty game against Charlotte and give the whole, look, Joel Embiid

is the MVP of the league right now. And he can, he'll sell those guys. Now, will they turn on him three years from now? I don't know. But this year, those guys will he can, he'll sell those guys. Now, will they turn on him three years from now? I don't know. But this year,

those guys will buy in and he'll talk about how great Ben Simmons is. I didn't realize he was so gifted. This guy might be the best natural talent I've ever coached.

He's going to do all that and it's going to work. Yeah, it is going to work and it'd also be true because Ben Simmons, again, people don't understand how good he is. They really don't.

They're so hung, they're so hung him up on the three-point shooting, which, by the way, I have seen him do in a gym. He can do it. I don't know when he's going to do it. I don't think he wants to be on a timeline. I think that was the mistake they made last year. I know he can do it.

I've seen him do it. I think he's ready to do it. But when he's in the open floor and going downhill, so everyone keeps saying, well, he doesn't fit the Daryl Morey mode. There are two parts to what Daryl Morey believes in, threes and layups. Ben Simmons creates more layups in the open floor than any other player in the league right now. When he gets the ball in his hand going downhill on the open floor, who's stopping him? Nobody. Here's the thing. The Daryl Morey mode is actually not what people

think. It's to have two superstars and build around them. It's whatever I have. Yeah. Whatever I have, I'm going to make it work. Can I have two stars? Can I go? All right. We're taking one more break and then we get to talk about Detroit, which I've been saving

much like Thanksgiving dessert. Detroit is like bringing out the pies. Yeah. One more break. All right. Last, last big NBA question. I think we got to 10.

Is it possible the Pistons were drunk during the entire off season? Were they over-served? Does somebody have to drive them home? Here's a quick recap. They gave Jeremy Grant, they gave Jeremy Grant three for 60. They gave Mason Plumlee three for 25. So they're paying 85 million for three years for Jeremy Grant

and Mason Plumlee. They lost Luke Kennard and Christian Wood, who are my two favorite players in the team. I know, right? They did not trade Blake Griffin. They seem pretty intent on keeping him. They added DeLon Wright, Josh Jackson, Jaleel Okafor. At one point, they had five centers.

They acquired Dwayne Dedman so they could stretch him. 13.3 millionwayne Dedman so they could stretch him. $13.3 million over three years. So they could stretch it out to pay Jeremy Gray and Mason Plumlee too much. And then on top of it in the draft, they drafted Killian Hayes over Tyrese Halbert, which I just fundamentally disagree with. And then they drafted Isaiah Stewart at 16.

During this draft where everybody's like Wow, you can get a center for nothing this year You can get any center you want for one year, two million The dumbest thing you could do is Draft a center who can't be an all-star with like the 16th pick Which is exactly what they did I don't understand what the F is going on with them What is going on with them?

So Mike, my husband and I were, we're laughing about this this morning. Um, I was telling him, you know, he doesn't follow the NBA as closely as I do, but I was telling him about how the Detroit has all these bigs that he's like, yeah, they're getting ready for a McFilthy and McNasty, you know, for the 89 finals. It's really like that, you know, for those of you who are too young to remember, Johnny Moe is famously called Bill Lambert and Rick Mahorn, McFilthy and McNasty. And I mean, that was great back in the 80s. But yeah, here's so here's my trade. We were talking before I that I had a trade. I want to throw you. Oh, I'm ready. Okay. Blake Griffin to the Wizards for John Wall in a first round pick.

Oh. So it's basically the Westbrook trade. Yeah. Except for with Blake Griffin. And Blake Griffin, if you're with the Wizards, Blake Griffin has less years left on his contract than Westbrook does. And he's a big.

He's a big. I think Blake Griffin can still play I was on board With teams trying to get Blake Griffin Before the draft Because he was really good Two years ago he got hurt He's got two years left on his deal

Even if he's 90% what he was two years ago He's got a great motor He kind of figured out how to get 20 and 10 every game He's shooting threes He starts shooting threes. You know, he starts shooting threes with the Pistons. Yeah. So if I'm the Pistons, you know, I'll take on John Wall and all the mess that comes with it.

And I'm going to trade you Blake Griffin. Because it feels to me like with all that they've done, all these bigs, how does it make sense to keep Blake? It doesn't. Well, and the other thing is you've got to at least do something for Bradley Beal who has not officially said I want out, but he also wants to make the playoffs.

I think there is a chance. The eighth seed, maybe even the seventh seed is wide open this year. Yeah, it is. So, yeah, I like that one. That's a good one. Other than that, I don't know what the F Detroit was doing. A couple other signings I did not like.

The Jordan Clarkson 4 for 52 to Utah was just stupefying. I've never gotten the fascination with Jordan Clarkson, but that's all right. I just feel like you can find heat check guards who can't defend anyone every year during the season. There's two available. You could go get Lou Williams right now. He's going to basically be what Jordan Clarkson is. I'd rather have Lou Williams. I'd could go get Lou Williams right now. He's going to basically be what Jordan Clarkson is. Get him now. I'd rather have Lou Williams.

I'd much rather have Lou Williams. Malik Beasley, 4 for 60, was weird even before the fact that he's got some criminal thing going. That he pointed a gun at somebody in a car. But I think that's, again, that falls into the category of Minnesota's trying to build something. Beasley was great for them in the very short window that they had him. I think he was over, over, over, you know, he's really talented. He's got some issues and they got to straighten those out for sure. But you're, you're trying to tell Carl Anthony Towns at D'Angelo Russell and these guys, you know, we're building something here. We're committing to it and you got to overpay. You got to overpay for him to stay there.

So that, that, I think that's how you explain that away. If I was ever a GM, and who knows, it could happen someday. Don't rule it out. Okay. I'm only 51. I was going to say, how old are you? Yeah, 51. Okay.

Fine. I'm never being a GM. But if I was a GM, I would just never pay big money for people who could make an all-star team. That would be one of the things I told my staff. I'm just never doing it. You'd be out of the league in 10 minutes

because that's how the league works. I wouldn't do it. And you know what else you wouldn't do? You wouldn't want to trade a player for cap space. And those are all the things that you have to do. It's why Dave Gavitt was not a good GM in the NBA. It wasn't that he didn't know basketball. It's that he just couldn't bring himself to trade actual living bodies for spaces. And you'd have the same problem. So you should not be a GM. I would definitely trade body for space.

I would never do, like Atlanta, they give Gallinari three for 61.5. No, but they have to do that. Why? Why would they have to? Because, well, they don't have to. For what reason? Because, again. I would want to be bad again and get another top six pick.

Why do I want to go 39 and 43 and it's like well they got to worry about Trae Young no they don't Trae Young's re-signing with them because they have the most advantage on a max contract if they get Bogan and I don't know if we heard anything I don't know if Bontanovich is staying in Atlanta it's really one of the most boring sagas

in league history I'm a little more interested than you 10 days was enough. Nine days, whatever. I was just like, hey, can't we just figure out where he's playing at this point?

But those two guys, if you end up with both of them, they give you catch and shoot options which you don't have. It makes it a lot easier for Trae Young

to go, you know, then he becomes a complete demon in pick and roll because you can't just focus on him the way you can. They got,

so one of the other sneaky good signings in my mind was them by signing Chris Dunn. Chris Dunn is another one of these guys. Now he can't offensively. He's not helpful to you. He's an elite defensive player and no one ever noticed because he played on a lousy team in Chicago.

Yeah. But why do you need Chris Dunn and Rajon Rondo and you have Trey Young who can only play one position? So I would have, I would have, I would have just gone with Chris Dunn myself. I like the Rondo thing. It's weird. How's Rondo

going to be happy? I just don't think Chris Dunn's going to play because they got Rondo. They spent like $7 million. Yeah, but Rondo will be hurt at some point. Trey Young, you're going to have to manage his minutes. I think Chris Dunn can help them. I do think Gallinari and Rondo are veterans because that team was too young.

They got nice young talent on that team. Now, the big question with them is... That team's not going to be able to guard anybody. But what happens with John Collins? Seems like he's kind of dangling. And I like John Collins. And how do you feel if you're Miles Turner knowing that the Celtics didn't want you to sign a trade?

I know. Yeah. That's a tough one too. But yeah, that goes back to the whole thing about I just wouldn't pay centers. You can get centers. You can trade for them during the season, the whole thing. Yeah, I think that's how Danny felt. That was another one. San Antonio, Jacob Purtle.

Jakob Purtle, three for 27. How does that guy make it nine million a year? I can get him 10 times in free agency. So I keep hoping Jakob Purtle is going to be able to shoot threes. He's 27. I know. So, but I was in, when he was in Toronto, I went out to do a story on Pascal Siakam.

And because I had been over in Cameroon and went to the seminary where he was in a seminary studying to be a priest. So I spent some time out there. Anyway, so I went, I flew to Toronto to talk to him after I got back and I was waiting for him and, and he and, um, Jakob Pertl were supposed to be shooting threes, right? So there were, it was pregame and they're working on the three point shooting and all they had to do was each hit two in a row. So four total. And it was getting later and later and later. And neither one of them, this is, I mean, Siakam's come a long, long way.

I think he shot 17% from three-point line the year I'm talking about. Okay. And the two of them, like, they just couldn't do it. And of course, Pascal has made that leap. And I just keep hoping Jakob Pertl is going to make the same leap. But I guess not.

So you like what Atlanta did more than I. Yeah. I just, I don't like tying up my 42 and 40 roster. It basically reminds me of what New Orleans tried to do with Anthony Davis

the first few years, right? Where they're like, let's get Ryan Anderson and let's get Eric Gordon and they're just like splurging and it's like, why are you splurging?

What Griffin is doing with the Pelicans where he's like, I have this young asset in Zion that could potentially really matter. I am going to try to get as many other young assets and picks as I can and try to grow with what we have and then make my move three years from now.

That's personally what I would do. Okay, but let's just take Gallinari. There was interest in Gallinari by a lot of contending teams. So let's say you hang on to him maybe for two out of the three years. And then in his third year, he has an expiring contract that will be valuable probably. And you'll be able to trade him. And I think one interesting thing that's funny about Atlanta is you would understand this a lot more if there were going to be fans. Because you're thinking, well, we're not going to get anybody in the seats

unless we have a chance to be somewhat good. Well, I don't think they're getting... Well, maybe Georgia will. I don't know. Do we think Georgia will actually be able to have fans in the seats? Who knows? Who knows, right? Who knows with that Georgia? So that could be a way of looking at it because you want to put fannies in the seats. But I know there's not going to be any in Boston, not in the near future anyway. Although I still keep getting charged for my partial season ticket package. Note to Celtics, what are you doing with my money?

Besides collecting interest on it. Yeah, they're just holding it. Last question, then we're done. Did the Bucks do enough? They tried. I would have said they had done enough if they got Bogdanovich. I would have said, yes, they did enough. Here's my thing with the Bogdanovich thing.

How can they do a sign-in before the sign and trade deadline started where the guy hadn't agreed to the sign and trade price? I don't understand how that became reported like that trade was done. Yeah, that was bad. His agents had to go out there and they're going to get his. It's a tough one. Yeah, it's very tough. But if they had executed that, I would have said they did about as good as they could do,

again, within the parameters. They had to move on from Bledsoe. That was the most obvious thing. You know, if you can turn on the wayback machine, you keep Malcolm Brogdon in and you don't re-sign Bledsoe to that deal. And that's not hindsight. I remember sitting in Bud's office saying,

what are you doing with this Bledsoe thing? And he's like, well, you're just from Boston. You just remember all the bad games you had in the playoffs. I said, well, I think the rest of the league saw them too. Yeah. Yeah. Totally fair. So that was, that was in hindsight. I said this a week ago. I stand by it. I just would rather have had Chris Paul and not given up three firsts and two pick swaps for, for holiday. Plus I have to pay holiday in a year. I just, I just think it's a smarter move. I buy a two-year window with Chris. There's two things with Drew, and I know how popular he is with the advanced metrics community,

but to me, durability doesn't have an advanced metric, but actually it does. It's called games played. And he's banged up a lot. And I don't know. I just feel like he wasn't quite as good, at least offensively, as he was two years ago. And for what they gave up, you're all in at that point. So I'm looking at their team now. They had Drew Holiday, DJ Augustine, who's unplayable in the playoffs

because he can't guard anybody. Torrey Craig, who can't shoot, so you can't play him either. You're going four and five. Bryn Forbes, who can't guard anybody, so you can't play him in crunch time either. And Portis who I'm out on Portis just period. They lose Bledsoe. They lose Hill. They lose Robin Lopez, Matthews. They lose three first and two pick swaps. And they still have the same problem they had last year. I don't know what their crunch time is. Now you could say Giannis Middleton holiday. I know three now,

but that, that fourth and fifth one, I still don't know. At least in Portland, I know who my crunch time is. And here, it's like, eh, should we play Torrey Craig and we'll just play four and five offensively? I don't think they solved it. I don't think they got better. And I don't think they could beat the Lakers in a playoff series.

So, why do you give up all that loot? Yeah, for me, it all rests in Giannis' hands. I just think why do you give up all that loot yeah for me it all rests in Giannis' hands I just think Giannis' ceiling is so

far beyond what we've seen that Giannis can take it up another level or two and not only make himself better

but really help the guys around him Chris Middleton I want more from Chris Middleton. I do. I would hope so. Yeah. And maybe he can still take another level. Did he make All-NBA? I think he did, right? I think he did. I didn't vote for him. I didn't vote for him for second team. I think I voted him for third team. Right, right. And so he had a pretty miserable postseason. So what does he do during this? Chris Middleton's a fairly young guy. I don't think we've a pretty miserable postseason. So what does he do during this?

Like, that's what Chris Middleton's a fairly young guy. I don't think we've seen the best of him. So I guess that's how I look at the Bucks roster and say, it's not necessarily, I mean, George Hill, it was getting to be time. I wouldn't be surprised if George Hill winds up like maybe with the Clippers or something, or even maybe even the Celtics. He would make some sense for the Celtics too,

depending on what the value of the contract is. I don't think you can make... I felt this way when it happened. I feel that way even more strongly now that we know the Bogdanovich thing fell through. I don't think you can do that Drew Holiday trade unless you know for sure Giannis is coming back. I think it's too risky.

And my intel is, Bill, that he's going to sign the Max, Super Max. That's what I've been told. It hasn't happened yet, but I think that's what we. And my intel is, Bill, that he's going to sign the Max, Supermax. That's what I've been told. It hasn't happened yet, but I think that's what we're all expecting to happen. Now, if it doesn't, your point is an excellent one. And even if he signs, here's the thing, though. Even if he signs that Supermax, which would be great for Milwaukee, does it really guarantee that he's there forever?

I don't think so. Yeah, but it's two more years, basically. Yeah, not in this day and age. Davis set the blueprint for it. I'll take all your money, and then two years from now, I'll decide what I want to do. And he decided. Yeah. And meanwhile,

now I won a championship with you, and still haven't signed. Still going to hold you up for a little more dough, because I'm pretty important to what just happened with your team so yeah I'm opting out

and yep you know well him and LeBron are gonna align their contracts with each other they're the same agent

and they're just gonna basically hold the Lakers hostage every year and be like look you guys were jack shit before we showed up

you had eight of the worst years in a row that any franchise has had in the league in a while. Yeah, but LeBron needs to remember that he was part of one of those jack shit years.

Right. Right before Anthony Davis got there. That was the worst LeBron year ever because he wasn't engaged. He was ragging on the young kids. I mean, Rondo was telling me like he was so hard on all those young guys. They were like in a shell.

They were like in a corner in the locker room. Plus they all idolize him. Well, yeah, that's right. It's like their idol is destroying them. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, he has to hold

some responsibility for that. Well, I'll say this. I'm going to leave you on this happy Thanksgiving note. And I'm saying this as a Celtics fan who is in their conference. I really hope Giannis

re-signs with the Bucs. Oh, I think we all do. I think that's a good thing for the league. And if you have Davis and Giannis resigns with the Bucs. Oh, I think we all do. I think that's a good thing for the league. And if you have Davis and Giannis ditching their franchises within two years of each other, I think we're headed for another reckoning with what this league has to look like.

Yeah, and it's the small market thing. And you know, the ownership, the Bucs ownership's done everything possible. They really have. Well, post-Brogdon disaster. Well, right. But Bucs ownership's done everything possible. They really have. Post-Brogdon disaster. Well, right. But, you know what I mean?

I like the way they handle themselves. They're very engaged with their players. They were marching, you know, with all these talk of ownership and what are they going to do about Black Lives Matter and everything. Even before that team didn't play, they had already marched with their guys. I think they're invested with their guys. They're engaged with them. I think it's a good ownership group. So we'll see. I have time for one more bonus question because Kyle's got to bounce in five minutes. He's starting to freak out. Hang in there, Kyle. I just thought of this because of the Lakers because Jerry Buss was considered to be the best owner for a while, right? And then at some point

it kind of became Peter Holt. If you talk to people around the league you'd be like, who's just... Even the other owners are like, yeah, Peter Holt's pretty great. Mickey Aronson. Mickey Aronson's another one. So does Mickey still have the title or is it somebody else in your opinion? Well, I don't

know. What do we think about Balmer a demanding owner but one that got you a new arena that's willing to open up the pocketbooks for big players to pay the money I guess the jury's out on him still right yeah but I'm saying with the other owners

like who's like the alpha dog when they have these owners committee meetings because it was always like Peter Holt was the alpha dog. Right. Before that, I think it was Dr. Bus. I wonder who,

who do you think they even have an alpha dog now? Or is it like, just like three or four influential guys? Yeah, I think it's different. You know, there's this whole tequila consortium of Jeannie bus, Wick,

Grosbeck and, uh, Wes Edens, you know, uh, and Jordan, I think Jordan has a voice in there because he's the only one that's been around as a player and,

and, you know, knows how these players think. I mean, he was really instrumental during that whole walkout, trying to get everybody back to the table, but I don't think he's railing away at those guys. I think he,

that's, I don't think that's his role at all. So that's a, that's a good question. I don't think it's Jeannie. I think Jeannie Bush is more of an introvert than people realize. It's definitely not Jeannie. Yeah. It's not Jeannie. So it's not good question. I don't think it's Genie. I think Genie Bush is more of an introvert than people realize. It's definitely not Genie. Yeah, it's not Genie.

So is it the box? It's not Lakob because Lakob's too polarizing. It's way too polarizing. So, I mean, Mickey Aronson, it feels to me, has been pulled back. I don't know if that's true, but that's the impression I get. I've heard the same thing. It's funny. I do think Jordan is gaining impression I get. I've heard the same thing. It's funny. I do think Jordan is gaining a voice. And I wonder if the last dance helped him with some of the other owners. They're like, oh shit, I forgot how unbelievable this guy was.

I'm guessing, and I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that Bomber is someone that makes his voice be heard and has a lot to say. Now, I don't know how it's received by everybody, but I think he's a player. I do. I loved when he went, basically, Azoff and Dolan, who as a combo, nobody really wants to mess with. They'll sue anybody that crosses them. A bomber's like, cool, I'm building an arena. Yeah, let's go. Bring it on.

I have unlimited resources. Let's have the holy cool. I'm building an arena. Yeah, let's go. Bring it on. I have unlimited resources. Let's have the holy war. And he got his arena. Now, whether any good Clippers will be playing in that arena when it opens, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Yeah, there you go. Jackie, happy Thanksgiving. It was great to see you. We have our Kevin Garnett podcast

coming up actually tomorrow. Oh, it's one of them that dropped. Yeah, they're sick of us already. Yeah. All right. Happy holidays. Great to see you. Thank you. Not that long ago,

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Just be yourself with your friends, maybe a distance hangout. Maybe you're on Zoom. Maybe you're at some outdoor bar where the tables are spaced six feet away from somebody. Who knows what you have going? You can just be yourself with your friends. That's the way it always should be. And as the original Lightbearer, Miller Lite, has always believed in this, that's what Miller Time is all about. I've been having Miller Time since I was in college. As you've heard, if you've ever listened to this podcast, it's been in my wheelhouse for over 30 years.

Whether you're toasting in person or you're cheersing from afar, Miller Lite has always been about bringing you and your friends together for Miller Time. And I've been doing a lot of distance hangouts lately. I've done two distance dinners and one hangout in the backyard. You know what? Guess what's important? Hanging out with your friends. Do it. Do it with Miller Time. It's time for you. Miller Time, Miller Light, great taste with only 96 calories, 3.2 carbs. However you and your friends are enjoying Miller Time, you can have it delivered, the original light beer,

by going to MillerLight.com forward slash BS. Find the delivery options near you. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. All right, million dollar picks coming up in one second. Wanted to mention, we finished that whole hour plus hang with Jackie and then like right afterwards, Miami announced that whole hour plus hang with Jackie. And then

right afterwards, Miami announced that they had signed Bam Adebayo to the max for five years. So that tilts the discussion we had a little bit. Although I will say, I briefly read some of the takes and agreed with them where this doesn't mean they can't get Giannis. It just makes it a little more difficult for them to get Giannis because they would have to basically move some salary cap around. Maybe they would have to lose Tyler Harrow to get rid of a second contract or whatever. They would have to do some salary cap chicanery basically to afford Butler, Bam, and Giannis. If the salary cap goes backwards, we've seen it done before. It'll happen if they really feel like

they have a chance to get Giannis. It just makes it a little more difficult. But I think the important thing here is, again, Jackie said Giannis and Bam had the same agent. So it's goodwill for Bam, who just watched Tatum and Mitchell get paid. So you win him over there. Brandon Ingram just got paid to whether he's a max guy.

Seems like a lot, seems like a lot for Brandon Ingram, but they keep their options open. So again, Miami shrewd as always. And I'm sure they've figured out a path to Giannis if, if they get there. So that's what happened. All right. Million dollar picks. So we're splitting this up. We have three Thanksgiving games, and then we're also on the Thursday night podcast. I'll do the rest of the weekend. So this will all

add up to a million dollars by the time we're done. We have three games. They're all terrible. They're all abominable. The first one is Houston, Detroit. And the weird thing about this one is that I think Detroit would have fired their coach after that shellacking they took against Carolina on Sunday. Their fans have lost all hope. I think everybody realizes Matt Patricia is not going to be the coach next year. And yet you have this Thursday game at 1230 and you can't really change your coach when you have less than 100 hours to get these picks on a Tuesday. But I am going to do, so I'm going to figure out how to move Houston

down to two and a half in a parlay with Pittsburgh. So hold that thought, because I think Houston wins by three. I do not want Detroit in this game. I know Houston's not great, but I was actually pretty impressed with how hard they were playing for Romeo Cornell in that Pats game.

You know, and if you're a Houston fan, the worst case scenario is they actually end the season pretty well. They don't have a first round pick anyway. It's not like they can tank. And then the rumblings of, hey, maybe Romeo deserves the job. As somebody who roots for a team

that's also in the AFC, I hope that's where they land. Anyway, second game. Terrible. Awful. Washington-Dallas. Yikes. The NFC least.

We covered it on the podcast with Sal on Sunday. They are on pace to be the worst division of all time. This game's going to be awful. Dallas's season was over until about two days ago when they suddenly beat Minnesota, a team that a lot of people liked. It was the first time they kind of looked like the Cowboys

since Dak went down, where Dalton recovered from a concussion. He's probably had enough reps at this point. They had a nice little run-pass balance against the Vikings. And, you know, I think it would be the perfect antidote for the worst season a division's ever had

to see Dallas go from a laughingstock to the favorite in the division within the span of 100 hours. It's too good to pass up. I'm also not crazy about this Washington team. I think their defense, you know, against Cincinnati, especially after knocking out Joe Burrow,

that defense looked good there. It can look good a couple times if they're playing the right team, but I think you can run on them. The better running teams have been able to run on them, and I think that Dallas has too many weapons. Plus, it's in Dallas. I do like getting the home teams when it's two bad teams

playing each other. So hold that thought. We're going to do Dallas minus two and a half. The last one is Baltimore-Pittsburgh. Baltimore coming off a devastating loss on Sunday to Tennessee where they had a chance to close the game in regulation. And once again, Lamar could not come through in the red zone and they had settled for a field goal, goes in overtime, Derrick Henry runs all over them. I would have potentially maybe talked myself into this being a close game just because of what happened a few weeks ago

when Baltimore led Pittsburgh for two hours and then just completely fell apart because Lamar had a couple of bad plays. But Baltimore is way more banged up than they were for that game. They've also had some COVID stuff. Brandon Williams is out. I don't know if Calais Campbell is playing or not, but their defense just does not look good. They can't get stops. They couldn't get stops against the Pats. They couldn't get stops against the Titans. And in general, I just don't like the look of this team, especially on short rest. And then you throw in, well, the one thing they could do potentially if they have a lead

is run the ball. J.K. Dobbins, who's looked really good the last couple of weeks, he's out with COVID. And then Mark Ingram, who hasn't really been playing, he's out also with COVID. So it's a lot of Gus Edwards and God bless Gus Edwards, but you're not beating the Steelers if he's your lead back. I am scared enough about how this line climbed, and it's a desperation game for Baltimore, no question.

They have to win. If they don't win this, they fall to 6-5, and they're in official danger of missing the playoffs with that log jam we have with the 7-3, 6-4 teams trying to get those three wildcard spots. So it's a kitchen sink game for them in a lot of ways. I just think Pittsburgh is really good. I don't see their little undefeated thing ending on a Thursday night against kind of a reeling Baltimore team that's also going through some COVID stuff. So be safe.

I like their money line here, minus 215. All right, so here's what we're going to do. Million dollar picks Thanksgiving edition. So that Pitt money line, minus two 15, we are parlaying that with Houston, who we're going to bring down to minus 2.5 minus two and a half. That is minus one 30 together. It's plus one 59 as a parlay. So Houston has to win by at least three. Pittsburgh just has to win. We're putting $200,000 on that at plus 159. And then the other one, Pitt's money line with Dallas minus two and a half. We're going to scale back a tiny bit here. We're going to put 150,000 on this. It is plus 174.

Dallas has to win by three. Pitt has to just win the game, and we're good to go. Last week, we lost $107,000. I blame Miami for not figuring out that they should have benched two at halftime, and I blame the Packers for not taking care of business and regulation against the Colts, and we actually could have swept all the big bets. We're still up 177,000 for the season. And those are the Thanksgiving million dollar picks. We will continue with more picks on the Thursday podcast. All right, that's it for today. Remember, New Rewatchables is up eight millimeter.

New Book of Basketball podcast coming Wednesday, Kevin Garnett. And then we will have one more podcast on this feed on Thursday. I have two special guests for you. Plus we're going to be doing a abbreviated million dollar picks. I know double dip in the million dollar picks. Good times. See you on, on a Thursday night. Enjoy the holidays. Be safe. Be safe. For the love of God, be safe. See you Thursday. I don't have a few years with him on the wayside

on the Bruce I never said I don't have a few years