The Bill Simmons Podcast - Dodgers Drama, Gruden’s Wreckage, Kyrie’s Soap Opera, and Million-Dollar Picks With Peter Schrager and Jay Caspian Kang

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

The Ringer's Bill Simmons shares his thoughts on the Dodgers' Game 5 win over the Giants, sending them to the NLCS for the second straight year (2:55). Then Bill talks with NFL Network's Peter Schrager about Jon Gruden's exit from the Raiders, before making their Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 6 (22:29). Finally Bill is joined by Jay Caspian Kang of The New York Times to discuss his new book, 'The Loneliest Americans,' as well as a range of NBA topics including Kyrie Irving and the Nets, the limits of NBA analytics, why the Trail Blazers need to trade for Ben Simmons, and more (1:14:30). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Peter Schrager and Jay Caspian Kang Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Press Box is here to catch you up on the latest media stories. Hosted by Brian Curtis and David Shoemaker, these guys have the insight on the biggest stories you care about. Check out The Press Box on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Football is in full action. FanDuel's highest rated sportsbook is the best place to bet it all. We've been doing pretty well on million-dollar picks this year. I love the first month of the season because you have to go into the season thinking, I think Pittsburgh's going to be good.

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The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where on Tuesday on this podcast, Joe House, Ryan Russel, and I, we picked NBA over-under win totals for every team in the league. And now you can play with us on FanDuel. We've teamed with them. We've created a new free game. It's called the Ringer Win Totals Pick'em. Pick the over-unders for 14 NBA teams. You can go over, you can go under for all of them. Scoring title, winner as the tiebreaker. See if you can beat me and Rossella in-house.

Go to fanduel.com slash win totals pick'em and you can play against us. So there's that. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where the Prestige TV podcast has gone to a whole other level. We had three straight succession podcasts this week. Me and Joe House, we did a 25 favorite, best, whatever you want, most lovable, whatever you want to call it, succession characters, counting it down 25 to one. All right, full disclosure, it was my list. House just reacted to it. But did that on Wednesday. Joanna Robinson and Sean Fennessey did a deep dive on the last episode of season two to get you ready for season three. And then on Friday, coming up, Chris Ryan and Big Waz have a pre-cap for episode one, which is coming Sunday night. Succession.

It is back next week. We'll have a couple Succession Reaction podcasts. Well, I think we're doing something about, I know what you did last summer. We're going to have a mid-season morning show, the show on Apple. Mid-season report on that one. And the house and I did a Curb Your Enthusiasm Hall of Fame episode that we taped when you were sitting there late. So that's going to run on that next week as well. Not an episode you're going to guess we picked, but I think start to finish, it is the most unassailably excellent, funniest top Dodgers, Giants, and the baseball playoffs in general. And then going to have Peter Schrager do million-dollar picks, talk about the John Gruden situation

and whether it's going to ruin the Raiders' season or not, and also how the NFL handled it and where all that is headed. And my old friend Jay Caspian Kang, who I used to work at Grantland with, we're going to talk about the Kyrie situation and a couple other sports takes that he has. So there you go. That's the podcast.

It's all coming up next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, taping this. It is almost 10 o'clock Pacific time on Thursday night. Man, I feel for the Giants fans and Dodger fans on the East Coast who had to stay up late for one of the most tense playoff games I can remember in a while. And if you're a Giants fan, you lose that game on a check swing

that wasn't even a check swing. And, you know, if nobody was on base, one thing, you had a guy on first base, there was some bad momentum headed the Dodgers way. Turner bobbles the grounder and you just think like, uh-oh, that's a bad sign.

You start getting the Tony Fernandez flashbacks. Buckner's the worst case scenario, obviously, but you think of all the bad fielding plays over the years, and you think, huh, could this be it? I tweeted during the game, it reminded me of those Braves-Pirates games from 30 years ago,

which I still feel like were some of the best baseball games I've ever seen in my life. If you go on YouTube, you can watch the 92 NLCS. Sid Bream scores in the, I think Francisco Cabrera had the hit to left field. Sid Bream lumbering first baseman. Bonds is in left field, the greatest defensive left fielder, probably of all time. Certainly the best one I've ever seen. Bream rounds third. Bonds throws, it's a little off target. Catcher gets there, misses by a split second.

A young Sean McDonough is announcing, and he does this, safe, safe. It's just that those games, for my generation, the Twins in the World Series that year, the Jack Morris, the 1-0 game and all that stuff, they had a certain pace to them, a certain rhythm, low scoring. Every pitch seemed like it mattered.

That's what the game felt like tonight. This Dodgers-Giants series, they've been circling each other all year. 107 wins for the Giants, 106 for the Dodgers. And I have some Dodger fans in my life who are just furious that they had to do a play-in game just to get into the playoffs, have to win that, use up their best pitcher. And then on top of it, the 107 win Giants are playing, are waiting for them. And they go ahead, Ted. I, as a Red Sox fan, was really rooting for the Giants because I did not want to play the Dodgers. I think that's the most talented team that's left. It really seemed like the Giants, it had all the makings of the Giants walk-off

homery of the crowd there. Everyone's standing on every pitch and you could just feel the celebration coming. A couple of things happened. One, Mookie was incredible. I mean, he had four hits. I felt like the TBS guys could have spent a lot more time talking about how Mookie basically had one-third of the hits in the game heading into the last inning. Four for four created the only run in the

game was just great at bat after great at bat. That's who he is. He's certainly one of the best Red Sox players I ever saw. He's certainly a guy that in a big game, a game like this, where it's going to come down to one or two plays,

it's not necessarily who can hit the homer at the right time game. That's the guy you want out of anyone in the league. This is the guy who can manufacture more ways to win a game than anybody in his generation. Did it again. No surprise to anybody who's watched him.

He was actually on deck in the night. It was third and second. The terrible Turner, but I don't know what they were doing with that one. Didn't get that at all. But then it ended up being third and second. And I was hoping for the walk with Mookie coming up with the bases loaded. Didn't happen. But I was torn because it was better for the Red Sox if the Giants won,

but I love Mookie. So I'm, I, I've just, it's incapable unless he's playing the Red Sox. I'm incapable of, of, uh, rooting. It's Mookie. Anyway, it was a phenomenal series. If I'm a Giants fan, I'm obviously would be out of my mind. If it were, if that happened to the Red Sox, I'd be in a coma. If we lost our season with Don the Drain on a check swing that wasn't even a check swing, you could see from the body language

of the batter, he didn't even, it wasn't even a question that it wasn't a, that it was a check swing and not a strikeout. He just was immediately back to like figuring out his next step,

next approach to the next pitch. And all of a sudden the game's over. Um, but look, that's baseball sometimes. And if it was like third and second, I think it's worse. I still think it's terrible anyway, but the bottom line is they put themselves in that position with, uh, you know, giving up the game-winning hit to Bellinger, who has been the Achilles heel of this Dodgers team all year. The irony of him getting the biggest hit. This is the guy, every Dodger fan in my life,

this was the guy, it's like the, what's wrong with Bellinger was the predominant conversation of the season for them. He ends up getting the big hit. They advance. And this Red Sox thing, I didn't talk about it on Tuesday because we were doing the overrunners two parts. I was in that NBA mode for that pot. I thought it would have been weird to start with the Red Sox thing, but, um, this is the most invested I've been in a Red Sox season since 2008. I actually really thought about this.

I went through all the seasons. What was the most baseball I've watched in a given year? In 2008 and earlier, that was when I was watching a ton. I had more time in 2008. We didn't, you know, 30 for 30 was going at that point. I had my column, podcast,

but I still had enough spare time to really follow a season. Once Greenland started and I started doing NBA stuff and, you know, you just, days and weeks fly by and you realize you haven't seen nearly as enough Red Sox as you wanted.

Also, the sport got a little slower, a little less fun to follow. I felt like I was growing out of baseball a little bit. The 2018 sucked it got a little slower, a little less fun to follow. I felt like I was growing out of baseball a little bit. The 2018 sucked it back a little bit. That was such a fun team, the outfield we had, but then, you know, they trade Mookie, they do the rebuild and combined with the weird COVID season last year, I really was looking at a situation where I didn't, I thought baseball was starting to die for me. You know, I was in my

fifties. I had gotten four world series from the Red Sox that I never expected. Never thought they would win a world series in my life. Thought I was going to live and die without getting one. And the game's slower. I don't like the owners. I thought the Mookie trade was unforgivable. I still feel that way. I've talked about that many times on this podcast. And it's like, if you can't give me that guy to refer for 20 years, how can I still care about this team?

Got a little sucked back into them in spring training. The energy, Alex Cora coming back, who's the best manager in the history of the franchise as far as I'm concerned. Started to get sucked in. You might remember in the history of the franchise, as far as I'm concerned. Started to get sucked in. You might remember in the pods in late March, early April, me talking about, I just had a feeling. I thought this Red Sox team was going to be better

than people expected. And I started watching. And part of it was, you know, the COVID, being home more. Always had them on. And it became this old school baseball season for me. And I think one of the great things about baseball, if you really love it, is the rhythms of the season, the ebbs and flows. And it's just kind of on. It's like the background noise of your day and your week. It's just, it's on. You're always kind of aware of what's going on, no matter what

happens. Now with the way we have with devices and things like that, you can be at a restaurant. I've gotten in trouble with my significant other for this many times of just kind of having the game on. And you just have a feel for your team and who to trust, who not to trust. And I think my feel for this Red Sox team is the best it's been since probably that 2008 season. The last time I really felt like I knew the team inside out. I knew who to trust exactly, what pitches they could and couldn't hit, what pitchers they could and couldn't hit, what pitcher was going to come in and what guys were going to give them trouble. And I just felt that way this year. And the reason I mentioned that is I thought when they had the COVID outbreak at the

end of August, it just seemed like, man, that was an awesome four month run. And now the wheels are coming off. This was a team that, you know, it was a little smoke and mirrors. They didn't really do anything at the trade deadline other than get Kyle Schwarber. And, uh, and it was a fun run. I thoroughly enjoyed them. They really added to my 2021, but it wasn't really going to go anywhere. September comes. They rally back a little bit. Then they get swept by the Yanks.

Then it becomes a question of, can we at least hold on, maybe get in the playing game? As we head to that last week, it becomes, well, shit. I don't want to lose to the Yankees in the play-in game. That would be terrible. Can't lose to them. Now you're going, I have to sit at the poker table against my biggest rival, the team I hate the most, and they probably have slightly better cards than us. Is this even going to be worth it?

This would be so catastrophic if we lose to this team we all hate. Get to the playing game. Beat them. Hench came on that night on this podcast and we did the whole thing. Everything else is gravy. Still never felt like a World Series was a possibility. Thought Tampa was going to beat us.

And you saw if you watched some of that Tampa-Boston series. Tampa who didn't hit it all in that series and still lingered and stayed around because they do everything well. I think they had at least four or five diving catches just in the last two games. They're so hard.

It's, you know, ironically, Halloween is another Halloween movie that's coming out today. Tampa's like Michael Myers. You just have to cut their heads off. They do. They just keep coming back. They keep coming back.

Every time you think they're dead, they're not. And even in that game four, you know, you're up five, nothing. Guess what? They're coming back. And the Red Sox beat them. And, you know, it's really weird sometimes with baseball where you kind of need five guys you can trust in the lineup. You need maybe two to three starters that you can at least 80% trust. And then a couple relievers

you can trust. And you can kind of get through a playoff series, even if you don't really trust the team. We've had better Red Sox teams, no question. But this team has a knack for, you know, the right guy coming up in the right spot, the right guy getting the right hit at the right time, the right reliever getting the right three outs at the right time. And they beat this Tampa team. And it was the first time I really allowed myself

to think, holy shit, this team might actually make the World Series. And then you start thinking on the other end, wow, this would be crazy if they played Buki in the World Series. And I've talked many times about how much I love Buki. And, you know, I took the year off last year as a Red Sox fan. I was so upset about the Buki trade. I didn't quit the team.

It wasn't a divorce. It was a separation. I moved my stuff out of the house and got an apartment somewhere else and just wanted to get out of the marriage for a separation. It was a, I moved my stuff out of the house and got an apartment somewhere else and just wanted to get out of the marriage for a year. And this has gone, I've noticed with some of my friends, like I have my buddy Jeff Gallo, who's the best man at my wedding, diehard Minnesota Vikings fan.

And they just hurt his feelings so many times that he doesn't watch them on Sundays anymore. He's too old. He's like, I just don't need it in my life. I'm happy. I have healthy kids, healthy wife. I just don't need the Vikings to do this to me every year. And he's just kind of gravitated away from them.

That's what happens. That's what life does sometimes. And I felt like I was hitting that point with the Red Sox last year, where it was just like unbelievable run with this team. So much of my life, so many of the little points of my life have been tied to this team that I can remember from 1978 when we lost the playoff game.

My parents got divorced two months later. 1986, you know, that whole run with Clemens and we get to make the World Series against the Mets. It was the same year I crashed my motor scooter. I almost died. You go through all the marks of your life almost through a baseball team. And that's why there's nothing quite like baseball. I don't think there's any other sport that you can do that with

where it's just kind of the background music of your life for six, seven months, some years. And it got to the point last year where I was like, maybe that's it. I don't like the sport as much. The games are too long. I don't like the owners of our team who don't seem to understand that you can't trade Mookie Betts and look your fans in the face

with a straight face. You can't do something like that. And this might be it for me. And this was the year 2021 that I kind of got sucked back in. And it was cause I liked the team so much. And you know, you, baseball's either in your blood or you're not. And I think I realized at some point, um, you know, um, this is going to be in my life, my whole life, you know, this is it. You either love this sport or you don't.

I love it for all its faults. I love it for the check swing. That's the terrible call that ends a game. I love it for Alex Verdugo, who was ironically the guy in the Mookie Betts trade. And instinctively, it's hard not to compare them. But Verdugo has been a huge part of this Red Sox team and, and really lovable and really valued. Um, and of course had a huge couple of huge hits in the, in the race series, but his energy and just, he gets it. He grew up watching the Red Sox and you know,

it's the kind of guy you want to root for. It's the kind of guy you want your kids to root for. So, um, just getting sucked back in and this whole ride of it has been really special. And, you know, it might be headed to us playing Mookie, who is certainly in the running for my favorite everyday Red Sox player ever. I think, I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's Fred Lynn and Manny are still probably my top two.

I think Mookie's third. Manny, I can't defend. I really can't, but I really genuinely love that guy. He brought me so much joy for nine years. I think that's probably my top three. Going against him in a World Series would be disorienting. And I don't think I've had that experience in a sport before. You think about the icons that your team trades. The Bruins lost Bobby Orr when I was a kid, but he was done. His

knees were shot. He went to the Blackhawks, never came back to haunt us. Brady went to the Bucs. We played the game two weeks ago, but never a real game with real stakes. I can't remember somebody leaving the Celtics and going to another team that really mattered like at the highest possible level. This would be a lot different. Now the Red Sox, the Dodgers are four wins away from Mookie playing the Red Sox. And it's going to be a tough one.

It really is. It's going to be a tough one for me. It's going to be instinctively tough to root against Mookie playing the Red Sox. It's going to be a tough one. It really is. It's going to be a tough one for me. It's going to be instinctively tough to root against Mookie Betts, but hopefully I can get there. Playing the Astros and the ALCS and obviously hate their guts. I mean, other than the Yankees,

probably my least favorite baseball team. So it will be a delight to root against them to get the cheater stuff going. Now this is where you can be a dick and be like, Oh, Cora was there. The Astros. I have no defense. All I can tell you is this Alex Cora, who looks like Kendall Roy, um, is the best manager we've ever had. I think he's a genuine guy. If you saw the clips of him, um, crying after they beat the Rays, hugging his daughter, talking about how painful the whole thing was,

being suspended for a year, how embarrassing that was for him and his family, and how hard it was to talk to his daughters about it, which is something I identify. Your worst nightmare as a parent, I think, especially as you get older, is you have to explain something to your kid that you know you're completely embarrassed by um and he obviously went through that and you could see he was hugging his daughter there was this clip they're hugging and crying for like 20 seconds and it was like this was a really painful event that i'm sure he has a lot of remorse for so i i don't think we'll ever know totally what

his role was with that astros thing, but does he seem remorseful? Yeah. Does that mean I'm not going to enjoy it every time the Fedway fans chant cheater at Altuve and Correa and all that stuff? Like, yeah, I'm going to love it. I think it's a great series. The Astros are loaded, but the guy that always killed the Red Sox was Springer.

Well, AltuV killed them too. I guess so did Correa. But Springer was the one I was always the most afraid of on the Astros. He's in Toronto now, so that's at least good. But I think Houston has slightly more talent. But I just think the Red Sox are better equipped for a series like this. I trust our guys in this series. The Dodgers are the team that,

from a talent standpoint, I'd be worried about. So what would a Dodgers-Red Sox World Series be on FanDuel, if you bet it? What would the odds be? I'm going to look that up. Playoff series. Well, you could do.

Yeah. Dodgers, minus 225. Red Sox plus 128. And the combo of that, eh, probably about maybe like three to one, something like that. They won't let me do the parlay.

I bet they have it tomorrow. Dodgers, Red Sox. The rematch, 2018. Could happen. Anyway, 2021, one of the weirdest years, probably second only to 2016 to 2020 in this century. But one of the cool things for me was it definitely lit my fire again on the baseball side.

And I think it's more of a local sport than ever. I think people care about their own team and they care about the playoffs and that's it. And that's a hard thing to navigate from who you talk to, who you talk to the sport about. Like this Giants thing, the Giants won 107 games.

I don't think I watched 20 innings of them until the playoffs. And you watch the playoffs, you're like, wow, Evan Longoria, he's still playing? You have those things. Cause it's like, I'm in the American league. I don't know what's going on with the national league, except the occasional Dodger games

I watch cause of Mookie. But, um, but it's all headed toward, um, I think a really great final four Braves Dodgers Astros, Red Sox, good times, unbelievable sporting stretch right now. Basketball start next week. Football in full swing. We don't have a best football team yet. And a lot of drama in football already. You know, is something wrong with my homes?

Is it fair to ask that question yet? Is Buffalo the best team? When's Wilson coming back? Are the Cardinals for real? We're going to talk about all that in one second with Peter Strager when we do Million Dollar Picks. Go Red Sox.

Thanks for rekindling my baseball fire. Congrats to the Dodger fans. Sorry, Giants fans. Tough one. Be back in one second. This episode is brought to you by Movember.

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suicide prevention, and prostate and testicular cancer research. And if you don't want to grow a mustache, you can still walk or run 60 kilometers, host an event, or set your own goal and mow your own way. Do great things this November. Sign up now. Just search Movember. All right. Taping this late morning Pacific time on Thursday. So if anything happens in football over the next eight hours, don't blame us. Peter Schrager is here as he is every week. We do million dollar picks.

We talk football. We had decently weak last week. We made a almost $500,000 for 68 to be exact. We are up over a million dollars for the year. 1.043 million. We did it. It took five weeks. Our expectations for ourselves are so high.

We thought we'd be up 3 million by now, but whatever, we're up. That's all that matters. Let's talk about John Gruden first. I'm actually intrigued by Vegas this week. They are getting three and a half points in Denver. The reaction from everybody would be, oh, that team's a mess. They just had all this stuff. I don't necessarily believe that with sports, especially if the team didn't have a tight relationship with the coach. But going backwards, the Gruden thing, biggest NFL story in the last couple of years for you? Yes. Yes. Biggest story in the last couple of years and it's still unfolding. And

I think the one thing that is most interesting to me, other than the horrific stuff that was in the emails in the last 48 hours of his career, now has this on it. Who leaked this? Who leaked this? Because everyone on the investigative side of it would say, okay, now go figure out what Washington has on theirs. But the real investigative part of this might be, who had the motive to leak this part of it, because this report was not about Gruden. You start, is it the NFL? The NFL is going through an all-time easy period. It's been smooth sailing for the last 24 months. They fought to play games through COVID. It seems like they were pretty on the forefront of the social

justice movement. They were there, they were vocal, they supported a lot of different places. And now this, and this is the last, they don't want to write, their ratings are up 70% for the NFL. This is the last thing they want. So it's not from necessarily the league office, or is it someone who was just so disturbed by the content of those emails that they were sitting at their law firm or sitting at the league office and was going through it and was like, you know what? Fuck this. I am not letting this go by without someone knowing that this was written and this is being sent around.

But I think to me, from the investigative journalism side, and I know you can bring on Brian Curtis or the Dan Van Natta or Ben Smith at the New York Times, whoever wants to really get into this stuff, it's not so much, well, let's find out what stuff Dan Snyder had. It's more who felt compelled enough to leak this to the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, because I don't think it's coming from Park Avenue. I don't think it's coming from the legal office. I don't think this is anything that anything the league would ever want on their hands. right because this is intel buried in a bunch of stuff that's supposed to be kept private it comes out so the immediate question is well somebody wanted this to come out why i think

i think you you have the favorite in this the emails were disturbing enough to somebody that they were like man this guy's awful like i i kind of want other people to know about this. So that's very possible. It's also, Conspiracy Bill did wonder, like, did the Raiders look at this as a way to maybe get out of a gigantic financial commitment that they probably shouldn't have made? You know, and if the Raiders were aware of these emails, if somebody made them aware, would it behoove them when you're talking about the amount of money that's at stake where it's like two thirds of a, what was it? A hundred million dollar contract. Yeah. Yeah. And you could just kind of get out of that. Now, starting yesterday, there was some stuff about, well, wait a second. Is this a buyout? Did they do some sort of settlement? He resigned. Does

that mean he gets money? And I think it's going to take a while to find out what happened. Did they pay him $20 million to go away? It's a tough one to pay somebody to go away when there's an email train like this that's really rough, even if it's from 10 years ago. I don't think it matters in this case. I think the part that rubs me wrong, I'll be honest, is that they got heads up on this stuff on Thursday. Gruden addresses the team on Friday, says, my door is open. If anyone wants to talk to me one-on-one, let's do it. Let's have a one-on-one conversation.

If you want to talk openly here. He's got a lot of veterans in that room. He's got a lot of African-American players, a lot of African-American coaches in the front office. There's several different African-Americans. There's a homosexual player on the team. Like he said, if you have questions, he coached with the Raiders logo and everything on Sunday. And then the next batch comes out, but the fact that he was out there. So you think he might've known, you think he might've known there was more coming? I don't know. I mean, you got to think that if,

if you knew that first email was out there and they've gone through 650,000 emails of yours, and you're prone to doing this over the history of seven years, would it have been in your best interest to maybe say, hey, for the better of the team, for the better of the league, I'm not going to coach on Sunday. I'm going to step away. I'm a distraction. Yeah. And Gruden's never going to necessarily have a career again. And he has plenty of money. He'll be fine. The part that I think isn't going to be talked about a bunch that maybe not everyone has sympathetic eyes towards is that he's got young coaches on there. They just moved to Vegas, bought homes, have kids in school.

And look, whether they are good or not, they're going to blow that building out at the end of the season, most likely. I'd say short of a miracle season where Rich Passaccia, the new coach, takes them to an AFC championship or game or something like that. They're going to say, okay, let's just start fresh with all new faces. And a lot of those coaches and the men and women in that building, they haven't done anything wrong. They just went to work every day for a team that was three and one going into this thing.

So my heart goes out to everyone who has to deal with the fallout from what was really just some hideous language, ugly emails and all that. But also some of the people that are going to be caught in the shrapnel, if you will, like an assistant coach who might be in his 20s or 30s and is trying to get his footing in the NFL or her footing in the NFL. And a new staff is going to come in and it's not going to be because of the team being inferior on the field. It's going to be because they have to rid themselves of the stench of anything Gruden moving forward.

You know, the emails coming out, it made me think of the deflategate stuff with Brady in 2015 when they talked about how he destroyed his phone or whatever happened because, and he wouldn't hand over his phone. He didn't want the league to have his emails. And I certainly don't think Brady had anything in his emails remotely approaching what Gruden had, but you can understand why anyone would have a hesitation to have somebody go through all their emails, you know,

and put in the hands of the league where it's like, Hey, we're just going to look at these. These aren't going anywhere. And then the stuff leaks out. The stuff's usually going to leak out. You're talking 650,000 emails. I think more stuff's going to come out. The stuff's usually going to leak out. You're talking 650,000 emails. I think more stuff's going to come out.

What the Washington football team did this week where all of a sudden the abrupt decision to retire Sean Taylor's number, which was disgusting. I mean, they've run out of ways to be like, wow, you guys suck. That one where you're just, it's so opportunistic.

You retire a number, you figure that out a year in advance. Like the Celtics knew they were retiring Kevin Garnett's number 15 months ago. The email for Michael Strahan being retired at Giants State or MetLife for November 28th came out in July.

Yeah, yeah. There's heads up. You make it part of like why somebody would want to buy a ticket for a game. They do this five days before the game. And that makes me think there's more stuff coming. And 650,000 emails.

Did you think about how many emails that is? And this was just Bruce Allen's account or is it everybody's account? No, it's everyone. That goes through. They did a deep dive in a discovery phase about team misconduct within the entire franchise. Now, look, one of the theories, and I've got to choose my words wisely because I don't know exactly in front of me what it is, but there is a situation in India, the country, where Dan Snyder's name was brought up on like a Reddit blog or some site

in India. And Snyder wanted to sue for defamation, I believe, or wanted to at least look into defamation. And as part of that, they uncovered some of these emails and it's like these outside the box things and what you're thinking of and how this could all come about. And then, you know, you bring in any email that's been sent from that, that, you know, redskins.com account is being investigated. I mean, the Schefter stuff comes out and everyone's journalistically appalled. I mean, that's from a 2011 that not about the, the, the team misconduct, about the CBA and that stuff gets leaked. And you know, it's, um, that's gets leaked. That's another one.

How does that one get leaked? That also seems targeted in some way. And it does feel like as this goes along, people are going to be getting clipped left and right with one email or a thread or whatever. It's just, I don't know where this ends and I don't know who's doing it. And it's not like Goodell is going to lay the smack down and be like, wait a second.

This is, you know, this is, he hasn't really, has he said anything? He has. I don't think he's had a public comment yet. And how does he not have a public comment on this?

He was the subject of some really ugly stuff from Gruden. Yeah. And, you know, Roger Goodell grew up with, in a, with a homosexual brother and they were, you know, using Goodell grew up with a homosexual brother and they were using that word and that language in regards to that. And then you add in with what the league is trying to be. Like, it was so wild for Schefter to be at their halftime of Monday Night Football talking with Booger and Susie Colbert and saying, you know, this language is unacceptable. And then they go to commercial and on ESPN, there's a, you know, a rainbow NFL shield. And it says there's a commercial that's like, you know, football is lesbian. Football is this football is that football

is everyone. And it's like, I don't know if it's generational. I don't know if it's Gruden specifically, but like the NFL could not want to go in a more different direction than what those emails uncovered. And I thought it was hideous and disgusting. The Maura Smith thing was gross. That was ludicrous where it's like, no, no, that's what I'd say if I think somebody's lying. It's like, what? What rationalization is this? How many people, who did you brainstorm with for how many hours before you came up with this one? No, no, it's lips. That's what I say when somebody's lying. Like what? And I agree with you. I, the more I look at it and think about it, I was like in such a Red Sox football, basketball

starting. Like I didn't really, it was like, oh man, Gruden. I wonder if this is, I wonder if there's more emails, but I didn't really think about it. I'm kind of amazed he coached last week. I think it would have made the most sense to be like, Hey, I'm going to step aside this week. I think this is, you know, this is really unfortunate that that came out. It's not what I meant. Um, I'm going to step aside this week. I don't want to be a distraction, distraction, the team. And, you know, I want to talk to so-and-so and so-and-so, and I want to talk to some Black community leaders in Oakland and all these different things. And I want to put some time in, try to make this right, and I'll come back probably next week or the week after. I don't know. But he was kind of defiant. He was. And he said, I don't have a racist blade in my body. It was

what the quote was. And again, a lot of people showed grace. I thought it was very interesting that Tim Brown came out in support and Charles Woodson didn't support those emails, but Tim Brown, Charles Woodson on Fox NFL Kickoff said, hey, in my four years with him, he never showed that side of him. How about Dungy and Tirico? Dungy, Tirico, these guys who put their names on it and they're like, that's not the side we saw. And that was that. And then Monday morning, it's like, after we went out publicly and put ourselves out there, you know, and, and took this, like, it's just for Sunday. The guy was catnip at ESPN to all the ESPN executives. So I used to call the, the blue shirts and khaki police, these guys that would walk around these middle-aged white guys all wearing the blue shirts with khakis.

And he just had like this really galvanizing testosterone effect by all count. They love being around it. He remembered everyone's names, hard handshakes, football stories and holding court. And, you know, they would have these Monday night football games. They just kept giving him more money. I never thought he was that good on TV. I really didn't. I never felt like anybody was watching Monday Night Football because John Gruden was announcing. Now when he

left, they had a lot of trouble trying to figure out an announcing team. I get it, but I never felt like he was a draw. It wasn't like a Romo type thing to me where I felt like he was like adding to the game. He was very self-parody-ish, but he had like a weird hold over the ESPN people. And they all like, you know, the people running in time, like Wild Hack, all those people, they were just like enchanted by him. And it was really weird. So I think that was part of the fallout from this past week or so is,

I think a lot of people got caught up in the cult of Gruden. Yeah, well, it's a real thing. It's a real thing. And it's like, you know, you see the Hooters commercials and you see all that stuff and you're like, you think it's a caricature. And then you see thing. And it's like, you know, you see the Hooters commercials and you see all that stuff and you're like, it's a, you think it's a caricature. And then you see those emails. You're like, Oh my God. So I think a lot of people were just, I think the word that so many people used and it's just like such great disappointment, like such great disappointment, because here was this character in our football life. And this is 2021. This isn't Jimmy the

Greek in the 1980s. This is 2021. And I know it's going through emails from 10 years ago and who knows what you can find going through anyone's emails. But I don't think everybody does have that stuff in their emails. I would hope not. Yeah. And then you throw in the coach piece. I mean, I thought what Brandon Staley said yesterday was really great. I know Mina Kimes retweeted it. So that was how I saw it. Where he talked about the responsibilities of being a coach and a leader and the trust that you have to build with the people that work for you and how easy that trust is that when it can fall apart. And I was like, it was just really good. And it made me, yeah, I think Brandon Staley every year we have kind of the breakout coach that is just, and you never totally know who it is. You can suspect.

We talked about it at the start of the year. Who's going to be the guy this year? Every year there's somebody. Yeah, it was McVay. Clearly seems like, yeah, clearly seems like it's Staley. Everything he's done with that Chargers team, that's a detour. But like how aggressive he is with Herbert, how he realizes like, I have this special guy.

If I can have four downs to get 10 yards, I'm using them. This guy's so good. He's going to get it. Um, some of the stuff he's done, which I haven't always agreed with around the goal line, but he's just super aggressive. He's trying to build a culture there. And you think like, that's what a coach is supposed to do. I think that's what Vegas thought they were getting. And what they end up getting is a complete shit storm. I hope it, I hope that's what a coach is supposed to do. I think that's what Vegas thought they were getting. And what they end up getting is a complete shit storm. I hope it, I hope that's the, and I think the NFL is moving that direction. And this generation of coaches,

I feel like there's a lot of vulnerability. There's a lot of self-awareness. There's not a lot of this, you know, I'm the king of the castle and everyone report like Brandon beat cancer at the age of 24 and was out of work for years as a coach and worked his way up and obviously gets this great opportunity and he's going to make the most of it and is living every day as almost house money. And that's how he looks at it. You look at some of these other

young coaches and Cliff Kingsbury got parodied a bunch. And I know people might say, oh, Cliff is soft. What does that even mean he's soft? Cliff saw this team and said, hey, it's a different generation of players. Yes, I'm going to let them be on their cell phone if they want to be. And yes, I'm going to let Deandre Hopkins miss a day of practice if he wants to. He's Deandre Hopkins. I think there's an old school football mentality of let's have two a days and let's tackle three hours in the summer heat. And then there's this new breed of coaches with Brandon Staley, who is not a... These guys aren't averse to contact or averse to adversity or anything that,

but it's also, these are human beings that we're dealing with, uh, on these teams and these players. They're not acting like Logan Roy. They're not acting like Logan Roy. Bore on the floor. There's no bore on the floor.

Yeah. There's no bore on the floor with the new wave of coaches. Yeah. I, so turning it to million-dollar picks, I don't think this Gruden story is done. I'm sure we're going to be talking about it next week. I'm sure there's going to be a bunch of new revelations

and a conspiracy bill is really interesting to see as you led with. Why did this come out? Who had the most to gain? We'll probably have answers at some point. With Vegas, though, the tendency with this stuff, especially with gambling, is, oh, too big. That team's have answers at some point. With Vegas, though, the tendency with this stuff, especially with gambling, is, oh, too big.

That team's going to be a mess. I disagree. I kind of like them plus three and a half. I don't think the Broncos... You look at the Broncos, they beat nobody. They beat the two New York teams in Jacksonville. They're 28.6% on third

down. They've lost a bunch of guys. And you think like, well, the defense, Von Miller, Bradley Chubb, well, Chubb's out. Von Miller is not Von Miller anymore. And if all of this stuff hadn't happened, I think this line could even be like Raiders pick them, something like that. Raiders were 3-0, had these two crazy games in the span of six days, had this crazy thing happen with their coach. Now everybody's like, they suck. I like them plus three and a half. And I think we have to look at it as one of our picks,

like a little post John Gruden, win it for us instead of winning for somebody else. Well, I'll tell you this. And I know I haven't always been his biggest supporter in the media. And I haven't always ride the, I've been told that Wednesday, when they got to the building, Derek Carr was freaking amazing. As far as let me lead you, let us go through this.

And he's leading with a different tone than maybe we might, where his is like, we could still love the man, John Gruden, but we can hate the sin. You know, we could hate what he did. Like, let's, let's move on. Let's have grace in our hearts, but let's hate the sin. We can hate what he did. Let's move on. Let's have grace in our hearts, but let's also do this now for us. And their new coach, Rich Versace, who's been in the league for a long time, is one of those special teams coaches that is the rah-rah guy. He's the let's go, let's win one for the, let's give it our all, and is a beloved guy around the league.

Now, he's been with Gruden for years, and you can say, well, the stench of Gruden is still there. I don't see it that way. I think these guys are all professionals. And for a lot of these coaches, this is their coaching professional lives now, because if they're Gruden guys, and that's Greg Olson, the offensive coordinator who long has been a Gruden guy, that is some of the, the Rod Marinelli's, the John Morton's like a lot of people on that staff are Gruden guys. Um, if the Raiders are looking to start a new next year and say, let's just blow the whole, you can't do that. If this staff comes together and coaches a bunch of wins together and they make the playoffs and they have a good season, then you go to the players. I appreciate the whole, Oh, shucks. You know, our coach did this

and our season's done now when you're three and two and you're a player trying to play for your life, uh life professionally. I think I spoke to D'Angelo Hall for a while about it. He's been hosting Good Morning Football this week and he played on some Washington teams that would have crazy things happen week to week. And he's like, I know the media wants to say that it becomes this distraction. He's like, honestly, a lot of us, we've got kids at home, we've got families. And the way you keep your job in the NFL is play good football, put on good football tape and win. And maybe it's not with the Raiders, but at the very least, we're going to go out there and do our thing.

I think Carr knows what time it is. This is a chance for him to really make his impact with the, the, with the Las Vegas Raiders. It's no longer Gruden's team. It's now Derek Carr's team. I would not bet against the Raiders this weekend. I think they might have something in store for the rest of the league. It's now Derek Carr's team. You just made me more nervous, not less nervous. Didn't really appreciate that. I remember, I feel like this can go one of two ways. Either it galvanizes the team or it blows the team up. And there's kind of no in between. I remember-

Give me a couple examples. It's going to go both ways. This is a good one just for me personally. It would suck for me. But 1978, probably the best Pats team we had out of that whole Steve Grogan run of my childhood and the team that was considered to be one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. And Chuck Fairbanks, the coach,

it comes out that he's leaving for University of Colorado right near the end of the season and i think they god it was so long ago it was over 40 years ago he i think he ends up leaving and they had like the interim coach coach to play and we got killed by the oilers the game that my dad took me to earl campbell destroyed us um but it it really did kill the season it was an immediate wow this killed our season. The players were betrayed. They felt like they had a chance

to win the Super Bowl. This guy's like, I'll see you later. I'm getting this college coach today. If this happened now, everyone would have a heart attack. But I think that's an example of it going the other way. But, you know,

we'll see what happens. I love the Raiders. When we come back, we're going to run through quickly our slate of teams that we like, and then we'll make our million-dollar picks. York U graduates have a 90% employer satisfaction rate. That's because across its three GTA campuses, York U's programs are strategically designed to prepare students for a meaningful career and long-term success.

Join us in creating positive change at yorku.ca slash write the future. Okay, coming back. We always like to start with a parlay or a tease at the top. We've had a lot of success this year with this. I think we've only gotten hit, I think we're four and one on these bigger bets. The one that we lost on was the Rams Chiefs tease in week four

when the Cardinals beat the Rams. Yes. Which I can't remember if it was a par or a tease, but for the most part, we fit these. There's two that jump out to me. I think the Cowboys Patriots are a stay away. And in general, we should mention, this might be a let's be careful out there

Michael Conrad Memorial Week this week because if you look at the amount of money being bet, it's like everybody's in the Cowboys. Everybody's in the Chiefs. Everybody's on the Rams and the Chargers. Not the Rams as much because I think the line's so high. Everyone's on the Chargers. So is that an indication that we zig when everyone zags, that we scale it back a little bit this week? It's a thing that makes me really nervous. Like I like the Chargers. I haven't seen anyone pick the Ravens.

They're banged up now. The Chargers are kind of a quote unquote hot team. It's plus three. It's Baltimore. I feel like it's a stay away. Cowboys, Pats, that line, what is it? Like three and a half right now? Three and a half right now three and a half right now

and that like the Pats like said this earlier in the week on the pod can't make big plays can't block can't get stops on defense

fumble on the goal line turn the ball over over and over again lose the turnover advantage every week Dallas on the flip side they make big plays they're like plus eight or plus nine in turnovers at this point lead the league in takeaways lose the turnover advantage every week. Dallas on the flip side, they make big plays.

They're like plus eight or plus nine in turnovers at this point. Lead the league in takeaways. Yeah. All sides point to a Cowboys cover and yet this is like, this is where you get scared of Belichick. It's like what happened with the Bucs two weeks ago. Everybody loved the Bucs.

Guess who covered the Pats? So I think that's a stay away. I am not staying away from a Chiefs-Rams teaser parlay. The Chiefs are minus six and a half at Washington, who has now just completely offended the karma gods with the Sean Taylor

thing. Sean Taylor, one of the most beloved Washington football players the last 25 years. Somebody, my son, who is really into football right now. That's his safety. He's like, Dad, was this the greatest safety ever into football right now, that's his safety. He's like, Dad, was this the greatest safety ever? I'm like, well, he died pretty early. Yeah, it could have happened.

Just for the listeners, really, the story is that three days in advance, they announced they're retiring Sean Taylor's jersey. It's embarrassing. Jason Wright, the president, came out today on Twitter and was like, no, Bobby Mitchell and Sean Taylor were going to get their jerseys retired this season. We meant to do it and we apologize for doing it on such short notice, but this is just what we're doing. My initial reaction was, that's amazing. They're retiring Sean Taylor. I didn't go to the negatives. And then I saw Twitter and I saw some texts in my phone being like, just how shameful is this?

That they're doing this to cover up the headlines from what's going on with the Gruden stuff. And I'm like, man, I hope that's not the reason, you know? And it's just got an icky feeling to it. Dan Snyder,

limp handshake guy. Is that right? I've never met him once. Okay. Yeah. Deadfish handshake. Oh, it's a red flag.

Uh, chiefs minus six and a half. They're two and three. Their defense is an absolute train wreck. I'm not ready to have the what's wrong with Mahomes conversation. If you look at their offense, they're first in DVOA.

They're first in first downs. They've scored a ton of points. He's made some bad throws. He doesn't look like he's at the peak of his powers, but this happens in sports sometimes. I'm not ready to be like, what's wrong with Mahomes? Yeah. It's not Mahomes. And I know he's thrown a bunch of interceptions and you look at those interceptions, it's, you know, Tyreek Hill drops one off his hands and sometimes they're forcing it. Last week was a, was a scary game

though, if you're a Chiefs fan, because there was a fourth and 24 and the, you know, it's, it's the bills punting and the chiefs go off sides and you're like, what are you going off sides on a fourth and 24 for? And then you have this long rain delay, which in any other situation you'd say, all right, you know what? We got beat up in the first half, but let's go in this rain delay. We're home. We're in our confines. Like let's put on our music. They're sitting in an ice cold away visitors thing hour long and the bills came out and beat them up and down the field. So they almost beat them in

two games. It felt like the first half and the second half, uh, and the defense can't stop anything that said, I could tell you, I think Washington's having troubles selling tickets this year. I think last, last week against the saints when the saints are not one of these fan bases that can, it's not the, not the Steelers or the Packers or the Cowboys that just, you know, clean out arenas. But I think there was like 40,000 available tickets or something going into that game. And a lot of saints fans showed up and there was who that chance going on. And this chiefs fan, it's rough. It's like the chargers, but worse kind of is. And this chiefs fan base does travel. And I think they are looking for a get right game. I had a very good

offensive minded coach tell me this this week, because I was like, what's going on with Washington's defense? And we've mentioned that cousin Sal hit it all off season. Hey, maybe they're a little overrated about the quarterbacks playing. It might be this too. You can scheme up. All right. Chase Young is their great defensive end. We can scheme away. We could throw it away from them. We could trip block. We do a bunch of things. There's a way to get by a defensive line. It's when your defensive line is complimented by good linebackers and good defensive backs. The Washington linebackers have not done anything and their defensive backs are terrible. So you see that Jameis Winston Hail Mary. I mean, that is like one-on-one type stuff.

Bang that down, do something, try to get in the way to Marquez Calloway. They're not doing anything. They can't stop anyone. So you come in with this inferior offense is what they have. And then you have this defense that is now revealing itself. What do you got? 28th and DVOA on defense. Cause DVOA now we've had five games. There's enough of a sample size to at least learn a couple of things. Now the Chiefs are 32nd. Sure, but they're not going up against Buffalo. I'd rather have the Chiefs offense against crap defense than the Washington offense against crap defense. I also, Mahomes, I saw this stat and I tweeted it out. I think he's got 15 passing touchdowns with leads the league.

He's the first quarterback in NFL history to lead the league in touchdown passes five weeks through the season and having losing record just tells you how, how crazy this team has been and how bad on defense it's been. But I don't see Washington like I did with Philadelphia a couple of weeks ago, we took the chiefs and we were safe. I don't see Washington being able to keep up with the chiefs. I think they win. I wouldn't say they're going to win by 10, but I think they win this game. It's not a must win like it would be in week 16, something like that, but it's kind of a must win

because... Feels like they need it. Two and four? Now you're messing around because I do think it's going to probably take 10 wins in the AFC. Let me ask you straight up, though.

We know the Chargers are good. Chargers are good, but let me put this one to you. If they were to get in the playoffs and say they go nine and... Nine and eight. Nine and eight or 10 and 6. 7 seed.

Are you picking any team against them? Are you worried about the Chiefs going into Buffalo? Are teams tanking to not get the 2 seed to go against the 7 seed? Don't laugh. If they have the 7 or the 6 seed and they're... Okay, Chiefs at Cleveland. Straight up. I don't care if they have 7. Are you really taking Cleveland? I don't know.

That's the thing. They're still a scary ass team. I will say this. As somebody who's been gambling for a long time now, since 1990 or 91, I can't remember. When I was in college, the Patriots were terrible again and gambling became my friend. The most dangerous team is the team...

Kyle, you might have to turn the overhead camera on for this one. Bring them in. The most dangerous team... Kyle, you might have to turn the overhead camera on for this one. Bring them in. The most dangerous team... Life lessons. The most dangerous team to gamble on is the past performance team that you're waiting.

No, no. It's the on-off switch team and you're judging them by things that happened last year, two years ago, and three years ago and this legacy of what they did. We saw this with the Patriots a couple years ago, the last Brady year. I said, nah, it's Brady and Belichick. They'll be fine. What happened? They lose to the Titans

in a playoff game. They lose to Miami in week 17. Yeah, crazy. And it's like, that's when you get killed. That's when you get killed in boxing and UFC too. It's like, nah, nah, this guy's... And then all of a sudden he's getting knocked out three out of four times. I think that's what worries me a little bit with the Chiefs.

But Mahomes is so young, it doesn't totally make sense. I look at them more as like an NBA team. And they fuck around in the middle of the January road trip. And like, all right, so LeBron Heat might lose a couple games here and there. But when they need to turn it on, they can. I feel like this is one of those games they need to turn it on. Well, we just need them to win in what we're doing. Because the other team we're going to put them with is the Rams.

Rams right now is minus 9.5, which is beautiful. We got it. I didn't want it to go to 10 because that would have been problematic for us. We can do a 7-point tease. Minus 130, have to lay a little bit. So it's basically like 130 to win 100. Okay. But it's worth it

because we get to take the Rams down to two and a half against the zombie giants who have nobody. It's, it's the Wayne Gallman, Mike Glennon show with no receivers, even Tony who looked great. Tony was like, I'm your giants fans. Like, Oh my God, this Tony trade that we thought we get walked away from this QB. This is amazing. Now it looks like he's not going to play and the Rams need the game because they sucked last week. So it's a perfect storm. You know why I love you? Because I'm not trying to embarrass you. You were talking to Sal about Wayne Gallman. I think he's on the Falcons. I don't even think he's on the Giants anymore. I think it's Booker. Who's their running back?

Booker. But it's like, it might as well be Wayne Gallman. Booker's the same thing. Gallman was on the Jets. I'm just old. But no, I loved it. Glennon Booker, that's even worse. It's like Glennon Booker and like Tony. Have you watched Tony at all this season? He's electric. He's incredible, but he also punches guys.

But that's why he dropped to the 20th pick, right? He was like, hey, this guy's really talented. He's a handful. He tweaked his ankle after an incredible toe drag, swag, sideline catch. And then he's going nuts and he just headbutts Jabril Peppers on the sideline. I was like, what? He's the biggest roller coaster ever. The Giants played the Rams last year and the Rams might have taken the foot off the pedal because the Giants were terrible last year and the Giants gave them all they can handle. The Rams had their kind of like fall asleep

at the wheel game against the Giants last year. I don't think it's going to happen again. They're traveling. Next week, Stafford plays the Lions, but it's not in Detroit. It's in Los Angeles, which is a little different. It's not like the pressure of like going back into that building and having to deal with-

We don't need to spend time on this one. It's Giants. Chiefs, Rams, super easy. Let's go. I feel bad for the Giants because there were signs of friskiness with them. I felt like there was something going on with their offense and Barkley was starting to look like Barkley again. And Danny Dimes, as much of a roller coaster as he is, was actually making a couple things happen. They had multiple guys going deep. Vinny Dimes, as much of a roller coaster as he is, was actually making a couple things happen. He was playing well.

They had multiple guys going deep. I kind of enjoyed watching them, which is very atypical for the Giants. As of right now, we're doing this middle of the day. There's still a chance that Daniel Jones plays. They're not ruling him out just yet. But even if he does play on that field, I think the Rams just come in there and they take care of business. What are we doing with concussions at that point? I know.

I know. Daniel, it's been a week. You're fine. Even though you stumbled like a drunk person leaving a bar at three in the morning just a week ago. You're fine now. Your brain's totally recovered. Chiefs, Rams.

Mark that window. Feel good with that. Straight up. We both like the Browns. Minus three against the Cardinals. Little comeback game for the Browns. Cardinals would go 6-0 if they won this. Cardinals are at the point now.

I've seen a lot of the Cardinals this year. Enough of the Cardinals that Max Williams goes out for the year. Max with two X's. And it's like, oh, that guy's good. He was actually weirdly valuable for them. But one of these weeks, they're not going to have it. I don't know what it is. Kyler was doing some weird thing with his shoulder last week. They're keeping that one quiet.

This has the makings of Browns get the lead. Kyler does throws one pick as he's scrambling around, and then the Browns are fine. I like the Browns in this one too. I also think that as much as they won the game and their defense stepped up and stopped the 49ers on five different fourth down attempts, the 49ers defensive line had its way with the Arizona offensive line. I think Arizona's offensive line might be a little overrated right now. And I think Clowney and those guys, or not Clowney, I'm sorry, Garrett and those guys might have their way with that. Yeah, Clowney's already hurt. He didn't make it to Halloween. You and Sal were talking, or was it you and Ryan or House,

we were talking about the NBA player. You mentioned Pete Maravich and Ben Simmons, the guys that really make very little big picture impact, but we fascinate. That's Jadavion Clowney in the NFL. Every off season, it's like, where's Clowney going to go? And then we're not talking about him.

That's so funny you say that. You're right. If people missed it, we were talking about what player has gotten way too much attention and conversation for what the actual results were. Like impact versus actual hype. And the conclusion we made was Stephon Marbury

got the most conversation hype versus what the actual results were. Clowney's a great one. Even last year, it's like, where's Clowney going to go? It's like, cut his herd every year it's like where's Clowney gonna go it's like cut his hair every year who cares where he goes alright we both like the Browns I uh with the cards I do like watching them

let me give you a little cool thing with the Browns here so Baker and Cliff do not have a great relationship I think it's fine now but like Cliff basically was like we're good without you Baker. And Baker transferred to Oklahoma from Texas tech. Now Cliff will downplay it and say, we're good. We're fine. But I don't think a revenge game. Yeah. I don't think Baker's

looking to lose to Cliff Kingsbury in a game. That's all I'll say. Both like the Browns. I, I continue to mourn not having Chubb and Hunt on my fantasy team. It's the best. You start them together. They each get 20 points. I really miss it. I miss those guys. Raiders plus three and a half against the Broncos we mentioned. I'm not 100% on this one, but I think we should talk about it.

Bears plus four and a half against the Packers. I like the way the Bears defense looks. I know Fields is hurt. I liked who's the third string running back who looked good last week. Yeah, he's on one of my fantasy teams. I don't even remember his name. You picked up Khalil Herbert?

I did. Great story. He's a zero-star high school recruit, goes to Kansas, does nothing for three years at Kansas, enters the transfer portal. Everyone's like, what? Where are you going?

Goes to Virginia Tech, puts up 1,700 yards, gets drafted, and now is starting for the Bears. There you go. And he was good. He was shifty. Yeah. I liked him. Bears defense against Rodgers. There's a real history here. And sometimes teams just, I watch it with Brady. It wouldn't even matter who was on the Dolphins. Something about the Dolphins, every once in a while, they would just get them, but they were always frisky and they were always kind of, you know, and he had that thing with the Giants too. Bears-Packers,

four and a half. I haven't, like, loved what I've seen with the Packers have done. The Bengals have a pretty good defense. I thought they did a nice job against the Packers last week. Aaron Jones is a little banged up.

Supposedly he's going to play, but who knows? And I do think the Bears can hang around. My question is, is this an underdog parlay where we throw it in at plus 180 or do we just grab the points or do we stay away? Those are three options. Rodgers has such a dominance over this team, especially in soldier field over his career. It's hard for me to think that this is the year the Bears are going to get him with a rookie quarterback who might be injured, a third string running back and whatever they've got going on. And I think, you know, Kyle Brandt hit me a look today and we were talking, he's like, the Bears are three and two. I'm like, I know it's so weird that this team is three and

two right now, but that's how they've been winning. They've been getting by and they've been finding contributions for people. Sometimes they've taken it to Rogers though. I mean, they played them enough times where there's been games where it's like, Oh, it's one of these games. Yes. And then other times he's up 38 to 10 against them. He said today,

he said that he thinks peanut Tillman, uh, peanut Tillman, Brian or lacquer, Lance Briggs, all should go to the hall of fame. That's how good they are. And like,

or lacquer is in, of course, but it's, he respects that defense. He respects that place. But you know, Randall Cobb, the note I got on him today is Randall Cobb. I think it's 13 and two all time against the bears. Like, yeah, let's take them out.

I'm going to take them out. I wouldn't go there. I wouldn't, I wouldn't pick against them. Okay. Let me talk this out. Well, I, I, I didn't love it and I'm glad we went there, but I don't know if you're talking me out of this one. Lions plus three and a half against the Bengals.

Let's go make a case. Um, I, the Bengals thing I feel like is very smoke and mirrors. Okay. Their defense frisky. You can totally talk me out of this one too. Defense frisky.

No question. The chase thing is real. He makes a play a quarter that is just like a crazy athlete play. He has a knack of getting open. Burrow is taking a shitload of punishment. I mean, he couldn't use his voice this week in practice. Lacerated throat or throat

contusion, I believe. Throat contusion. They can't really block for him and they can't really run the ball. Whatever you feel about this Lions team and even if you look at the advanced metrics for them, it's not great. They're 25th in offense, 29th in defense in DVOA. But they're kind of tough.

They're resilient. They don't go away. They're two plays away from being two and three. They're always kind of hanging around. And I think people would just look at this game and go, oh yeah, Bengals, mark it down. Well, why hasn't the line really moved? Why has it stayed at three and a half? How many chances do the Lions have to win a game?

Is this the game you get fired up for? Does Dan Campbell spend the whole week going, we can hit the shit out of Joe Burrow. We're going to hit that guy. You hit that fucking guy. And it just gets everybody fired up. And then they do the kind of like Jared Goff makes two plays and all of a sudden it's 14 to 10 late. Could you see it?

Yeah, I could see it. Look, the coach cried in his post-game press conference and the conversation Monday was like, all right, we know he loves this team and loves us, but can you really cry in week five? And the answer Monday was like, all right, we know he loves this team and loves us, but like, can you really cry in week five? And then the answer is yes. Like this guy is just pure emotion and those guys are buying in. The fact they're in these games, the talent deficiency for the Lions against a lot of

these teams is off the charts. Like there's no reason the Vikings at home should have to escape that game the way they did. The Vikings should blow out that Lions if you look at the rosters. The same can be said for the Ravens. And yet they fight. And especially in that building at Ford Field, I am with you. Let's go with the Lions. I think coming off that game, off that loss, we'll learn a lot about these guys.

But Cincinnati, you can get to Joe Burrow and this Detroit team. They'll play for that coach. We should mention it's in Detroit. Yeah. I think their crowd. I think that Detroit fans like this team. I think they're actually weirdly attached to it. Yeah, they support the coach. I think they're kind of into this.

And I guess, should the Bengals be three and a half point favorites over anybody right now when Burrow's already banged up and they can't block? And they just played overtime last week. You nailed it. Two overtime games. I spoke to Randall Cobb and we talked and he was like, I was exhausted after that game. It takes like days to get over that.

And that's from the winning side. Now imagine losing that game. The Bengals, they could come in here and it could be a little bit of a slow start for them. Now the Lions, that loss they had last week. I know that people see the score and they're like, wow, they lost at the last second. That's heartbreaking. The coach cried. You and I watched that game. They had no business even being in that game. They were up there. Yeah. 16 to six with three minutes left. Vikings miss a field goal. There's a resiliency with them.

No, that's the, I like it. Like they go away. They didn't just fall apart. So even if they're down, if they're down 10 with five minutes left, I feel like they get a cheap touchdown. All right, we're going to mark them down. Let's go.

We're going to take a break. When we come back, one of the best questions I've ever asked you since we started doing this. Are we really going to bet on Gino Smith? That's next.

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coming back. There's one more straight up game. Seahawks plus five and a half against the Steelers. Now I remember and I remember writing about this way back when. I think I was the first person who really wrote about this, about how much the line shifts when a quarterback moves. And I had me and Chad Millman, we actually went to a sports book and got them to give us what it would be for each QB

if they left. and it was like nine ten points was the most really for for what it would be so now you have this page two you wrote this article I love yeah way back when way back when it's in there somewhere um so now you have this Seahawks Steelers game which is in Pittsburgh and granted the Steelers aren't any great shakes, but you figure if Wilson's playing, this line would be like, I think Steelers two and a half, Steelers by two, something like maybe Steelers one and a half.

It's only five and a half. So Vegas is basically saying, we think Russell Wilson is worth four points more than Geno Smith, which I'm stunned by. I was also stunned by, I think they can win the game with Geno Smith, which I'm stunned by. I was also stunned by, I think they can win the game with Geno Smith. It's not like their defense is that good.

If you look at the DVOA stuff and some of the advanced stuff about the Seattle D and you talk to their crazy fans, they're fifth in offense this year. They're 25th in DVOA. So naturally you go, well, they'll be worse without Wilson. That should drop a lot.

I don't like this Steelers team. I don't know why you would. I think Ben, he looked a little better last week, made a couple plays, but he still puts a few up for grabs. It's a must win for Seattle. They can't lose another one. No, they can't. They've had 10 days to prepare.

Gino looked great last week. He went five to five. He made one mistake. Granted, the mistake was he threw the ball 15 yards over somebody's head for an interception at the end of the game. No, Lockett slipped. Ah, whatever. It still was an overthrow.

He played well. He came in hot and played fine. And then I look at that defense, that Seahawks defense, which is on pace to be historically the worst defense in the history of the sport yards-wise. I look at Jamal Adams, who is the highest paid safety in the league and was embarrassed last Thursday night and has no sacks and very few tackles for a loss this season. It's one of those games that's like a gut check game. It's under the lights. It's going to be in Pittsburgh. I think Heinz Field will be rocking. I get the feeling that they're back in, but I also get the feeling that fan base

might be like, oh shit, if Ben struggles early. And this one could be one of those where the Seahawks come in there, keep it close and steal it late. I watched that Denver-Pittsburgh game last week. And although he threw a nice deep pass early, I didn't come away from that being like, oh, Ben's back and the Steelers have fixed their problems. If anything, Najee Harris finally got going and they were focusing on him more. But I would not feel so confident in the Steelers just because they're home and they won last week. Let's go through their five, right? Buffalo weird game. We're throwing that game out. I think that's the weird week one result. We two lose to Vegas convincingly. We three lose to Cincinnati convincingly. We four lose to green Bay pretty convincingly. Week five, they beat this Denver team

that, as we discussed earlier, we don't think is good. Yeah. I'm not sure they should be laying this many points against a decent team that needs to win. I guess the question for me with Seattle is, if they lose this game, even with Geno Smith,

unless it's Geno Smith just murdered us and we can't win with this guy. Yeah. But this is supposed to be a good team with a good coach and good veteran players. And it's the kind of game you rally around. It's a kitchen sink game. It really is. This is a, this is if, if Tyler Lockett can throw a pass on a double reverse to somebody, this is the game, you do it. And if they can't come close to winning this, then cross them off for the year, I think. I think it's a big game for the Steelers too. So it's one of those deals. Steelers go two and four and the AFC, which is loaded right now.

But they're not good though. Do you think they're good? I don't know. I picked them before the season to compete and be a wildcard team. I just think they have enough great defensive players to hang around in games. But the way they beat Denver last week, that's how they have to play. I don't know if they could do that every week. I don't know if Najee Harris behind that offensive line can run for 140 yards again. So are we sure their defense is good?

I think it's 19th and DVO way right now. And that's a pretty big sample size. I think cam Hayward Minka. And when what is healthy and Bush are healthy, those guys are great. Okay. I, I would like to see Hawks with the points. I don't know if I would take them straight up, but I think Cam Hayward, Minka, and when Watt is healthy and Bush are healthy, those guys are great. I would like to see Hawks with the points. I don't know if I would take them straight up, but I think it's going to be closer than you might expect.

Let's go Seattle. Let's go. I like them with the points. It's funny because when Geno came in and it was clear Wilson might be hurt, then it comes out Wilson is broken finger. My immediate reaction was, this is amazing. We get to bet on Geno Smith. I don't want to bet against him in this spot. I think he's going to make a couple of plays where I want to bet against them is when it's like they're minus eight against Detroit at home. That's like, Oh, lock that down. They'll kill

Detroit. And that's the game when he'll have like four turnovers. You know, it's crazy. Gino Smith's now been in the league like nine years and he he was with the Jets. He was with the Giants. His old teammates love that guy. He's one of those guys you want in the room. And when he went in the game, if you saw the social media outpouring from a lot of people in the NFL, like ex-players and current players, it was like, hell yeah, Gino, go get them. I think they might rally around him too. I think this might be like, this is Gino's game. Let's go win one for Gino too. And let's go do something with this guy. I don't know.

I would like the Seahawks in this one. Let's go. Just going to ask you quickly about Panthers Vikings, which I didn't give you on a list because I'm not sure the Panthers are good. And you look at their offensive DVOA stuff and some of their first down stats and things like that. It's pretty rough.

Darnold looks like he's regressing. McCaffrey's 50-50, which is the reason I stayed away. I don't want to have the Panthers and then he doesn't play. I don't want to go against the Panthers and he does play. So it's a stay away. But I like Minnesota in that game. I'm not going to bet it though. McCaffrey's everything. And until we know his status, even if he does play, he might only play so many snaps. I would stay away. I've got Greg Joseph as the visual behind me for those looking online. That guy has given us so many thrills and yet we've been on the right side of betting for and against him every time. I'd rather not be involved with the Greg Joseph experience. I'd stay away from the Vikings altogether. Underdog parlay of the week. We

hit in week one. We've lost our last four. The goal is to hit this four times during the year and we make money. Our candidates this year, Bears plus 180, or this week, Bears plus 180 Packers,

Lions plus 162, Seahawks plus 194, and Raiders plus 152. So I think the Raiders should be part of this. Let's go. I'm in with that. Bears, Lions, or Seahawks for the other piece. Let's go Lions. We talked ourselves into that.

Let's go Lions. All right. We said Lions, Raiders, plus 575. Wow. Let's see. A little tasty. It's a tasty morsel. All right. it's time. It's time. Let's do it. I feel like we're pretty confident this week. We like this week. These Sundays have been quite a roller coaster. This one feels like it's going to be a nice, easy Sunday. Million dollar picks week six.

We are up 1.043 million for the season through five weeks. First bet. We can do a little seven-point teaser. Minus 130 big. We got to lay on this one. But we think it's going to be worth it. Chiefs minus six and a half. Rams minus nine and a half down to two and a half.

Chiefs will basically be even. How much are we putting on this? We're going big, big? We're going big, big? We went 700K last week and it hit. That Vikings game almost gave us a heart attack. Yeah, true. Fair.

All right, so we're going to put 780K to win 600. Okay. on the Chiefs plus a half and the Rams down to two and a half. Straight up. Browns Cardinals. What do you think? 250? Browns minus three.

Lower? 200? Yeah. All right. Browns Cardinals minus three. We're taking the Browns 200K on that one. Raiders Broncos. Same or a little lower? 150? Same. 200K on that one. Raiders-Broncos. Same or a little lower? 150? Same.

This week is weird week. Let's just have a nice easy one where we just win every bet. I like it. 200K on the Raiders. Playing for themselves. Playing for them. Plus three and a half over Denver. Then we have the Seahawks plus five and a half

against the Steelers. We're going to put 200 K on them. Gino, you're our papa this week. It's the Gino Smith game. It's the Gino Smith game. Lions-Bengals plus three and a half. Are we betting on this or are we just putting it? Stay away.

Let's do it. All right. 200 K. Lions plus three and a half over the Bengals. I like this. We have some good dogs here. And then the underdog parlay of the week, the Lions and the Raiders plus 575.

We're going to put 33K on that as well. Great. Do you want to scale down the Raiders and the Lions to a little less on the actual straight ups? Yeah, because we're putting them in the parlay. Yeah, let's scale them up to a little less on the actual straight ups? Yeah, because we're putting them in the par. Yeah, let's scale them up a little bit in the straight. All right.

So we'll put 150 on the Lions plus three and a half. And I want to keep the Raiders at plus three and a half. I think they're, I think they know what, let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. There you go.

Those were the million dollar picks for week six. How's Kyle Brandt doing with a post Cobra rewatchables? Is he just strutting around with a toothpick in his mouth? Dude. Fantastic. His Stallone gets better and better as, as the days go by. I'm so happy we did it.

I'm so happy we were able to introduce younger America to that movie. All right. Say hi to everybody in good morning football. Say hi to everybody at Fox. We will see you next week. This could be another winning week. Are we sure we don't want to go 700K on the Ramsey? Sorry. We're good. All right. We're good. Let's keep winning. Peter Schreger, good to see you.

You're the best. All right. Jay Caspian Kang is with us. He was the second person we hired for Grantland. We worked together way back when. It's basically our 10-year anniversary. It's a little late. Happy belated anniversary. Good to see you. Yeah. It feels like 10 years. It's just... In some ways, it feels like 30 years. Yeah. It's like many lifetimes ago for both of us. You have a new book called The Loneliest Americans, which we'll talk about later.

But one of the things I loved about working with you, you were one of the first people who came in hot. You just had takes. We would sit around the office and you've been on this pod a couple of times, usually for real reasons that felt Kang-centric. This Kyrie story is really kind of everything in the Kang,

whatever, with the Venn diagram of things that you're kind of interested in. It went to another level this week. I can't tell if he wants to play basketball. I can't tell if he's just using the entire world now as a laboratory. You're watching this from afar from

the last couple of years. You like the Celtics a little bit. A little bit, yeah. Then you watched them on the Nets. Give us your take right now as we head toward the season on Kyrie. I think we need to return to Charles Barkley's I am not a role model with a lot of NBA players.

I like it. We care way too much what NBA players think. And I think it's not just the players. I like it. Yeah. Like, we care way too much what NBA players think. And I think it's not just the players. I think this actually started with Popovich and Kerr, you know, where like people would be like sort of clamoring over them at every,

you know, they're like standing in the hallway underneath like Staples Center or something. And somebody's like, well, what do you think about this thing that happened? And then it would give statements that I think are important, you know, and ones that I agree with. But, you know, it seemed to create this almost academy of NBA player takes that then turned into

something totally different last summer. And I don't know. I mean, I don't think that this is one of these things like, well, you made your bed. You told us to pay attention to you, to not shut up and dribble. And now this is what you get. But I do think that, you know, I think as people who are not in the NBA or people who aren't really invested

in marketing the NBA, that we should just like kind of stop caring so much about what these guys think, you know, because there's this thing now where everyone agrees on something. And then, I don't know, you and Rosillo talk about this a lot.

There's like all this incentive to zag. And I think like we're now just sort of seeing the zaggers. Zag culture. We pay so much attention to that. Jonathan Isaac's going to be like the governor of Florida or something like that when all this is over.

I don't know. I think, yeah, I am not a role model. It just worked so well back then. Maybe we should go back to some thoughts like that. I guess the one thing with this is it really does affect the team that seemed like they were the favorites to win the title and it affects them profoundly. And in he controls his destiny or their destiny in an outsized way. But then I go back to the Durant decision two years ago, where Durant two times in his career has had this moment where he could

really decide from these amazing choices, right? Like in 2016, he could go play with the 73 win warriors and basically maybe rattle off a three-peat or he could go be the guy in Boston and play with these young guys. They had all these picks and just be in like basically a better version of the Oklahoma City situation. He chose Golden State. 2019, he clearly wants to break away from Golden State.

He wants to play in New York. He's choosing between the Knicks and the Nets. And he could have just gone to the Nets, right? And they had an up-and-coming team. He could have just gone there by himself,

but no, he attached himself to Kyrie, who at that point was behaving pretty erratically in Boston. I mean, that was why I posted on Twitter, the me driving Kyrie to the airport video, because I've been a running joke for months. He was so bizarre in the Buck series. And Katie's like, that's my guy. And now you're seeing that backfire.

But there's this weird loyalty with these guys to each other where Katie's not going to criticize him publicly at all. And he's like, well, that's my guy. I got to stick by him. It's like, do you, this guy's torpedoing your chances to win a title potentially.

Well, I, you know, you know, Durant obviously better than, than I do, or like a lot of people do. Like,

I don't understand why that is. I mean, it just seems like he makes decisions on this purely personal basis. Right. And that he doesn't really think about the PR aspects or even some of the ramifications that could come down the line. I kind of admire that about him, honestly.

I'm just like, well, I mean, it's kind of cool that you're just like, I'm going to stick up for my friend. You know, that's how I hope my friends would treat me. But at the same time, sometimes you just scratch your head and you're like, how are you in this situation all the

time? You're so good at basketball. And every offseason something like this. It's just weird. Yeah, and at one point he was attached to probably one of the most stable superstars we have, Curry. Right, right. And he's like, ah, fuck this. I need to get out of here.

I got to go with my crazy again. The thing with Kyrie, I guess the part I don't understand from the KD side, like I think one of the reasons, maybe from some of the conversations I had with him over the years, but also like he's talked about it publicly is like, he really loved Kyrie's attitude toward basketball. He like, KD has this weird, not weird in a bad way, weird in a good way, like this weird appreciation for people who are just all about the right things. Basketball wise, people who like really work in their craft, like craftsmen, that's his thing. That's what really gets him going. And I think even we talked about Kyrie before they were playing together on one

of the pods I did with him. And he just had such an affection for how good Kyrie was and how hard it was to do some of the stuff that Kyrie does in a game and his ability to be ambidextrous and his handle. And what's crazy is that same appreciation doesn't seem to extend toward, I'm just going to show up for my teammates every day. Yeah. Yeah. He'll do stuff like, remember he took like a week off or something for his birthday last year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I try not to be so like a moralist about it or like even try and do these like analogies where I just think about my own life. Yeah. I don't know. Like when someone just doesn't show up, it's just so disrespectful, you know? And, and, um, I think, I don't know. It's interesting what you said before though. I do think

there is this thing where NBA players overvalue people who can do skilled things that they can't do. That was around Kobe all the time. You would watch Kobe. When I was working at Grantland, like Mays, and I would go to some of these games and we could watch Kobe up close and I'd just be like, Oh my God!

He did 15 moves and it's hard to see on television. If you're trying to guard him... With Kyrie, I think it's the same thing. There's just so much appreciation even if it doesn't lead to wins. Yeah, it's like he's a unicorn in a way

that only the other basketball players could see. It's like how the chefs can respect these other chefs. They'll notice things that you and I would never notice about how somebody made like a lobster bisque. Right, right. Like, oh, no, you don't understand. Like he put this in there. And you're like, what?

I don't know what you're talking about. Or like writers sometimes are like that, right? Like sometimes I'll read somebody who like, you know, has like 800 followers on Twitter and is publishing in like the Oxford American or something like that. I'm like, oh, my God. You know, this is the best American or something like that. I'd be like, oh my God. You know what I mean? Right. Like this is the best writer I've ever seen. And then, you know, the piece will be about something,

you know, that I don't care about. But, you know, you do have a different type of appreciation. I don't know. I think that's probably what Katie thinks, right? Maybe that's what he thinks about Kyrie and his, and I don't know. It's that,

that might even be why Kyrie's so popular amongst other NBA players. Maybe the showing up isn't as important to them. Would you trade for him? No. We talked about this a little on Tuesday. I floated out like kind of semi-jokingly a Spurs thing. Oh yeah. I heard that.

The Spurs fans were not happy. They really weren't. They were like, wait, why do we get stuck with this guy? It's like, well, you have no all-stars.

That could be right. Right. I don't, no. I don't... No, I don't... I can't think of a single trade that would make sense. You know, like... I thought somebody was saying that the Mavs should trade Porzingis for him. And I was like, no.

Yeah, that would be crazy. I think I would rather have Porzingis at this point. I don't think... I honestly don't think Kyrie wants to play basketball anymore. And I think that's part of it right now. And I think he's using this. It seems like, yeah, we've been moving that way for a couple years. I don't know.

That's fine. But Ricky Williams didn't want to play football anymore. And he went out and he lived in a tent. He explored the world and explored what was inside of him. And it was great. People respect him for it. So I don't know. I think Kyrie just needs to stop playing basketball

and it'll be fine. No one will have a problem with it, I don't think, except his teammates, I guess. The Ricky Williams thing is a good analogy because that was treated a certain way as it was happening. And then I think after a year or two years,

especially as people started reevaluating how they felt about football, they started reevaluating how they felt about the Ricky Williams thing. And then it was like, hey, wait a second. Maybe he did make a good move leaving. And maybe, you know, it ties into a lot of the stuff that people talk about now about mental health.

And now you look back at the reaction people had of that. I was like, man, people kind of sucked with that Ricky Williams thing. I know. I think we're more evolved now, but like even, and I think if a player just said, hey, I want to like,

you know, explore cannabis and I want to, you know, I want to look at the world and I want to grow as a human. I think people would applaud it now. You know, the problem with Kyrie is that like he can't even tell you what his problem with anything is, right?

Like he does these, he does these like Instagram live videos and he's basically just like... His statements are always just like, nobody knows what I'm actually saying. He's like, well, you have a camera on you right now. Why don't you just say it? Yeah, just explain it. You're right there. The media is always wrong reporting what I'm saying. And nobody actually knows what I'm saying. And nobody actually knows what I'm saying.

It's just like, okay. I don't think that's true because you don't say anything ever. You just say, the truth is elsewhere. And it's like, what's the truth then? It reminds me of the old L. Ron Hubbard commercials way back when. It seemed like some alternate languages happened. He's like, I find the power. And you're like, what, I find the power.

What's going on? Is this a real thing? Kyrie seems like he's, he totally understands what he's saying, but can't articulate it really to anybody else. And I don't, I don't half the time even really know what he's frustrated with or upset with or how genuine it is or how authentic it is. And whether it is or not,

I just don't know. And that's why I've been hesitant to, I mean, he was terrible to root for as when he came to the Celtics, especially the second year, it was awful. We couldn't wait for him to leave. But at the same time, like I, I can't tell if there's something wrong with them or if there's, he's perfectly fine. I just, I don't know. I don't know how to evaluate it. I think he's perfectly fine. I just think that, you know, I really just think that like there's part of him that's like, I owe it to people to play basketball, but then there's like a large part of him that just doesn't want to play

basketball anymore. And when those, I don't, can you think of a person who didn't want to kind of clearly didn't like playing basketball who had a, you know, who kind of got out of it. The last person I was thinking about was Andrew Bynum. It was very clear that all Andrew Bynum wanted to do was play video games. He didn't like playing basketball. He's one of these people who's 7'2", and so he had to play basketball.

And then once it became clear, he was out of the league in two years, which was interesting because he was sort of on pace to be multiple all-star. Some people who they're just in pain or they've had injuries and they just don't feel like the grind of it. Like Maravich left pretty early. He only played like nine, ten years.

But his knees were killing him. He just didn't want to deal with it. It's pretty rare to see somebody who, when he still wants to be really good, is as good as he's ever been at any point in his career. He certainly had those moments last year it was completely unstoppable it's not like he's declined physically in any way no i mean and he's like you know he's still the guy who hit those shots over staff you know yeah finals so you would think you would want that guy um and uh yeah it's just weird i guess kareem is one, they would say that about Kareem,

but I actually think Kareem loved playing basketball, you know? Yeah, I mean, he certainly played more minutes than anyone. Yeah, the thing with Kyrie is, you know, with the Simmons thing, it was clearly a work, right? Like they're just trying to get traded. They're exhausting all the options. They end up costing him a million dollars as they're trying,

but it's all like some sort of end game. It was like he was going to stop playing basketball. Yeah, yeah. The Kyrie thing, you know, if this ends with him just getting vaccinated two weeks from now and coming back and saying, I've proved my point. And everybody would be like, okay, cool. Like, I can totally see how that's how this would play out, right?

I could also see a world in which he's just like, I'm good and does the Ricky Williams thing and just does 28- minute Instagram videos all year and is talking in some coded whatever that none of us are really totally understanding what's going on. Like that Instagram live thing he did yesterday. It was kind of incoherent. Totally incoherent. I would be very disappointed if you got vaccinated and went. I would be happy as a citizen of America

who thinks that people should get vaccinated. Yeah. I mean, I would just be so... You put everyone through this, all your teammates through this. You put your organization through this, your friend. I guess that's the part that bothers me the most.

It's just like... I don't really care. It's Kyrie Irving. I'm not his friend. But I guess when you think about it yourself, you're just like, this dude't really care. It's Kyrie Irving. I'm not his friend, but I guess when you think about it yourself, you're just like, this dude just played in the Olympics. He almost beat Milwaukee by himself.

He's had a horrible injury. He's trying to be like, I don't know, if he wins two more titles with Kyrie, where is he? Top five all time? Somewhere around there, right? Yeah. I have him 10th now. He cares about it.

And so why don't you just show up and make some money and play basketball with him? Give me two more takes. All right. All right. This one, I want to preface by saying, please don't be mad at me. Great. NBA analytics people. Oh, I already like it.

I think NBA analytics is like pretty much done. You know? Oh! It's finished. Okay. Make your case. All right.

I want to preface by saying I'm not saying that individual player stuff and little plays that, you know, and ways to evaluate players like all that stuff is done, it's done at a proprietary level by teams.

It's important. But I think in terms of changing the way the game is played on a significant level, like it did with the corner three-point shots, stuff like that, I just don't think that there's going to be anything that happens in the next 10 years that's analytics-based because we haven't seen it in the past few years.

And, you know, I have some friends who work in this, you know, one of them created this thing called Darko's forecasting system. I've talked to him about it. And he agrees, you know, it's just like, yeah, you know, it's all small stuff now. And so kind of think like that. And I think that people will start to find

other inefficiencies in the ways that players are evaluated. Do you remember when the Red Sox signed Mike Cameron and no one could understand it? Cause they're like, I thought money ball was just about like, uh, you know, on base percentage. But then it turned out that basically they found out that defense was like the thing that wasn't valued correctly. Um, I think there'll be small things like that, but I, I,

I actually think that, uh, you know, this is what basketball is going to look like in that, uh, the analytics, you know, this is what basketball is going to look like and that the analytics are over. Like, we don't have to pay attention to them so much anymore to believe that they're the only way to do it. And that, you know, we can kind of just sort of think about the NBA playoffs as like who has the shot makers, which is actually the fun way to think about it. You know, like, I don't know, like, think about, like, Chris Middleton last year, right? Like, it's just like, all right, you know, like, he came up huge in these moments. And I actually, I'm

happy for that because, I don't know, that's how I like to watch basketball. It's just like, all right, like, what's on the line for this guy? You know, who's playing with emotion? You know, who's going to hit these shots? Who's going to come up big? I don't know. I think we'll start thinking about basketball way more that way. I think the analytics part of it

will be less part of the future of the conversation. I think it will be a huge part of the way that teams operate. Because we're kind of, we finished it. It's like in baseball. Right.

I was just talking, I'm on this crazy Red Sox thread that we're just so delighted that this weird Red Sox team is we're just so delighted that this weird Red Sox team is in the final four. I just can't believe it. And we were talking about the 1978 team that lost to the Yankee team in the playing game.

And we were, somebody mentioned how they loved Rick Burleson and like Rick Burleson had a 295 on base that year for the Red Sox and batted second. And he had, he was, he had eight steals and eight caught stealings. Um, and it's just like,

you look at it now and it's like, what the hell are we doing? How did anybody not realize this is not somebody that should be batting right in front of Jim Rice. Yeah. Um, and then it evolves over the years. And now we get to where we get to where it's like,

yep. Guys who get on base are more valuable. Home runs or bust guys, those are valuable. The relievers that can come in through 99. And they've kind of like figured out baseball for better and worse. I don't like the home run stuff as much, but for the most part, there's not a lot of ways to go. They've done the shifts.

Everything. They've taken the advanced intelligence as far as it can go. I wonder with basketball, it would seem like the mental part, mental makeup would be the great inefficiency now. What makes somebody like Giannis different than somebody else who's a great player? What does he have in him from a competitive standpoint, from a relentless standpoint, from working on his game, from never being satisfied? Is that something you can measure as you're trying to figure out who to draft?

And I think that's where a lot of the teams are now is like mental makeup. I think it's hard to figure out like on who to draft, you know, like I'm here in the Bay Area and I become kind of obsessed with Kaminga because like he's sort of this, I kind of don't believe what everyone says about him. You know, like I'm here in the Bay Area and I become kind of obsessed with Kaminga. Yeah. Because like he's sort of this, I kind of don't believe what everyone says about him. Yeah. And then I think I'm sort of rooting for him to do well, because I think that those types of evaluations where they're like, oh, he didn't, you know, he's looking like he's not trying hard in these areas.

Are wrong. But that same time, you know, I've watched some of those clips. I'm like, yeah, you know, it looks like he's really not trying to figure it out. It looks like he's bailing it in. Yeah, not a great sign. So I don't think it could be that type of evaluation. But yeah, I think that they're going to try and figure that out because that does seem to be the big difference between these guys. Everyone comes in as a huge talent with a ton of different skills. And then it just seems like the guys who are good

are the ones who work at it hard. It's hard to tell when someone's 18 years old. But at the same time, there are red flags we ignore if somebody's super talented, like Ben Simmons. Right. Kind of mailed in his college year and was just good. And then it was like, well, it was his coach's fault.

There are all these excuses. But then you think like, would Giannis have mailed in the LSU year? Or would, even if he wasn't that good yet, would he have just tried to bust his ass and done as much as he can? Probably. Right.

So I guess that's, I think that's kind of where they're going. I think Kaminga is a really good example of like Kaminga, incredibly tooled, like the five-tool baseball player for basketball. He's like Willie Mopena. Right. And people are looking at him going,

yeah, but I saw this G League game where he just jogged up and down for two hours. So that's a bad sign. All right, what's your third take? All right. Third take is that Portland should trade everything that Philly is asking for for Ben Simmons. I don't even know if that's a hot take,

but I think they have to. I don't think that they have any choice here. It's like people are saying that Philly has all the leverage, and I would agree with that in some ways, but I also think that Portland's in this desperate situation where they're going to have to give up CJ and whoever else and all the pick swaps and stuff like that.

I don't see a world in which... So you think there's a four to five month shelf life with this damn thing? Right. That if they don't save it now, it's over. Yeah, and also Portland is never going to get out of the first or second round. They're so capped out

in what they can do. What's the worst case scenario of what happens if they trade for Ben Simmons? Dame leaves, it goes badly. They still have Ben Simmons. They still have a guy who they can build around. I don't know. I just don't know what draft picks in the

15-25 range is going to do for them. They might as well just go for it. Yeah, they're almost doing the Rams, trading all the first round picks, trying to be better now. I wonder like, I'm not the first person to make this point,

but like Toronto, all of a sudden they're in the finals. They make one move and they're there. Phoenix last year, they're not even, they can't even make the playoffs and they get Chris Paul, all of a sudden things come together. And now I wonder, does that make like 10 to 11 other teams think,

point to those two instances and go, no, that could be us. No. So like Portland's like, no, well, we have Dame. We have McCollum. Now we get Larry Nance. And now it's like, why not us? I think they're in why not us mode. I think that Phoenix thing

was a real thing for other teams. Portland is always in why not us mode, right? It's just because they have no other teams. Yeah, there's like this song that I was listening to by this guy from Sacramento. He's like, I don't know, he's not a great rapper, but he did

this song about the Kings called We're Not That Bad. And I was like, it's amazing. Cause that's basically like the, that's like basically the motto of the Kings, you know, Portland motto is basically like, why not us? It's like, well, I don't know. No, it never is. The team is why not us. And their fans are like, what's your problem with us? Yeah, exactly. Don't you dare. You shut up. You're not from here. Tell us about your book. Yeah, it's The Loneliest Americans. It's about the process of assimilation post-1965 Immigration Act, which is the big landmark immigration bill that basically made it so that Asian people, people from Africa, people from Southern Western Europe could come to the United States. It's why the United States is so different now than it was in 1964 even. And it's a lot of history about how those immigrants moved around and entered America.

If you want to know why, for example, Koreatown is changed from 1991 to now. There's a history of that. Flushing, New York, there's a history of that. There's a lot of stuff just about my own family. My parents also came post-1965. It makes an argument that we're not a binary country anymore and that we should start thinking about the country a little bit differently than we do.

Well, it's available now. And for everybody listening, the reason I reached out to Kang, he wrote this piece about, it was Beyonce, right? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Diva Scale. we were talking about it recently that was still when the internet was fun it was so because now i feel like you write you

if that piece goes up then you have the whole beyonce side all the crazy fans they're mad about something and you're a young writer at that point and you're getting nailed with tweets and you're maybe you're in the wrong headspace and you never tried to write another piece like that that's what worries me about writing in 2021 yeah i'm i'm with you i think back then we could try and do anything you know you could experiment and it was like okay if you kind of missed on a piece or if it was 10 off now it's like you can't miss and it's like, you can't miss. And it's like everything, people get like, that was, I read that for the all,

which, you know, like it wasn't a small place, but it was also not a place. I got paid like 50 bucks, you know? And so like, you know, like you could sort of say that this is a low stakes thing and people would kind of get that. But now the issue, I think like,

I don't know, like I generally skeptical to claims that like, you know, everybody is out to, or like we're living in fear, but I think that for writers, it is kind of true, you know, like that, that people aren't willing to take risks because everyone can make an argument that everything is, is like the most important thing in the world. You know, like, I can't believe you tweeted this for example, or whatever. And, um And I don't know. I think it does have a chilling effect. I'm glad that I came up in that fun era of the internet.

I do think people are a little too nostalgic about it. But it was fun to just be like, Hey, here's my blog. I don't remember... We found so many writers that way where it's just like, Oh my God, this person has an amazing WordPress or this person's blog spot is great. Yeah, we spent how many months there just looking for people

who stood out in some way and it was like the weirder, more eccentric or kind of, I don't know, funnier, whatever, pick an adjective. If it stood out for some way, that was who we wanted to work with. Yeah, like Brian Phillips, right? He's just writing his run and play blog and we're just like, wow, maybe this would work. Where was Rember?

You were the one that found Rember. Where was that? Yeah, he did a bracket of OutKast songs, I think it was. And my buddy from college was his TA in Rem's grad school program. And he was like, you should read this. And I was like, whoa, this is the most entertaining thing I've read.

I actually found the email recently where we convinced him to basically quit his path to whatever his grad degree was to come work for us. But we had to convince his mom. Those were great days. Yeah, there's a lot of conversations like that. Like, remember, this guy is like, remember, we were trying to get Matt Flagenheimer, who's now like a big reporter at the Times.

Oh, yeah, he turned us down. He would email me every year to be like, I kind of have regretted it, but I'm doing really well. Now he's like one of their best reporters. Yeah, yeah, he's like a big star there. I think he was at Penn at the time, or he was in college, and we're like, hey, come work for us.

And he was like, I can't. Yeah, I have this New York Times thing. It was like an extremely fun time, just trying to find those writers. Alright, well, good luck with your book. Hey, thank you. It was good to see you. Do you have plans for the next book, or are're going to wait a couple? Oh my God, no. I'm in the space. I think you told me you were in after a book of basketball.

Just like never again. Yeah, honestly. Yeah. I hope I keep to it because I don't know. This whole week, I felt like I've told my wife, it feels like I had a concussion. I have no idea what's going on. I wake up and it feels like it's still night. And then I have to go talk to some NPR station and say the same thing over and over again.

So yeah, I appreciate it. But no, it's been a bit harrowing. So hopefully never again. All right, Kang, it a bit harrowing. So hopefully never again. All right, Kang, it was great to see you. Good to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. It was produced by Kyle Creighton. Don't forget about our FanDuel contest,

the Ringer Win Totals Pick'Em. Just go to fanduel.com slash win totals pick'em. Don't forget about the Prestige TV podcast where you can find Succession, 25 best characters, me and Joe House. Don't forget about the Prestige TV podcast where you can find Succession. 25 Best Characters, me and Joe House. Don't forget about the Rewatchables, which I'm also on. Me and Kyle Brant at Cobra this week. Next week, Monday,

35th anniversary of The Color of Money, another Scorsese film. It's Scorsese month of the Rewatchables. Very excited for that. I will see you on Sunday night after Pat's Cowboys. Hopefully the cousin and I are still talking. See you then. On the wayside