The Bill Simmons Podcast - Down Goes OKC! Spurs-Knicks is Here! What the Hell Just Happened? And What Does OKC Do Now? | With Zach Lowe

Episode Date: May 31, 2026

Join The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe LIVE on Netflix to react to Wemby and the Spurs defeating the Thunder in Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals to reach the NBA Finals (1:17). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Zach Lowe Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers Give No Quits. Shop at your Local Duluth Trading Company Store or Online The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Bill Simmons podcast live on Netflix. Zach Lois here on a beautiful Saturday night. We just had an awesome, awesome game seven. My favorite game sevens are when it's not just a series at stake or maybe even the title at stake, but I feel. like there's real big picture basketball shit going on. Like era shit, legacy shit, changing in the guard type stuff. And it just felt this way from the beginning. And eventually we'll remember it as the Luke Cornet Chasedown game. That was it. It's the Cornet game. Lock it down.

Biggest play of the game. Luke Cornet, much malign, the entire series. Now, where do you want to start? I mean, that was incredible. I want to start with. what you just said about, you know, Toriko punctuates the game. It's Wembe's world now. And it's absolutely remarkable that the spurs are already here. They're so young. And look, they've been a clear championship team for a while now. The experiencing didn't bother me.

It didn't, it didn't, you know, limit their chances to me. But when you see them all embracing after the game, all the young faces, they're so young, the joy they have. And Wembe's crying and all this. It's like they're already here. at the pinnacle. And we are, what is it right now, May, five, four months removed. I mean, it was really not until those December games, starting with the Vegas tournament.

They played three times in like 10 days. Until San Antonio won those games, the story of the season was, is it going to be 73 wins? Are they going to be maybe the greatest regular season team of all time and have the greatest two-year run of all time and start of a dynasty? And the Spurs eviscerated that in a 10-day span in December started this. this series with a remarkable win on the road and end it with a remarkable win on the road and go into the finals with the Aaron Fox looking healthier, Dylan Harper looking healthier, and Wembe at the top of the league. And yet, you use the phrase changing of the guard,

Wembe's world. I already want the 2027 Western Conference Finals to start because there's going to be a lot of talk about what is Oklahoma City going to do in the wake of this crushing defeat their title hopes dash, this rising phenom that they and nobody else has an answer. for what I want in my basketball fan soul is run it all back. Jalen Williams, you were injured, we're running it back. Chet, we got a lot of chat talk to do. Let's go into the summer, learn, go into like the Australian outback like Dirk did when the Mavericks lost, whatever you need to do.

To come back stronger. Where did Dirk go? Yeah, the remote parts of Australia? Yeah. Yeah. And just come back and say, you thought it was a changing of the guard? We're coming right back at you again with the same. core group that we had tonight.

But these two teams going back and forth is awesome. And for the Spurs to be here is absolutely incredible. Wow, you just chewed up a lot of storylines there. That was great. Let's start here with the Spurs, though. Young core teams that make the finals, this just basically only happens once a decade. 77 Blazers, 86 rockets, 95 Magic, LeBron and the 07 calves, 15 warriors, sort of.

Curry's like six years in at that point. We had the 87 Mavs almost, the 93 Sonics almost. There's been some almost. This is like the youngest, craziest run. Even the 86 rockets seem more conceivable to me than this. And then they go down three, two. I picked the spurs before the series. I genuinely thought they could win.

After game five, I thought it was a rap because of Fox. and because of Harper, they just didn't look right. Harper looked great in game six. We were texting before the game. Tell them what your prediction was before the game. Well, I mean, I said Fox was going to have 15 points on six to 14 shooting.

I basically said he's going to have a good game, not a great game, but you were worried that he was going to have a... I was word for the 0 for 11, yeah, disaster. Cataclysmic, like, is it already time to trade him game? And I was like, I like the shots that he was getting in game six. And I was like, I think he's just going to have a good, fine, productive game.

maybe the big thing. So what did he end up with? He was I think you nailed the prediction. 15 points on 6 of 12. You nailed it. You needed to miss two more shots for me to get it exactly right.

All right. So here's what I jotted down from the everything we would want from a game seven standpoint. We had two fantastic teams. Yes. With two tremendous stars that I think played really well.

And I want to talk about SGA in a second. But both of those guys were awesome in that game for different reasons. And you had two, fascinating career moments for those guys, too. You have SGA. You talked about it with Goldsbury after the game six. Like, we're throwing his name around with some pretty legendary guys from the last 75,

80 years. It would kind of be nice if you had a better series. Could we ask for that? And he was lights out. And then you have Wembe going on the road, down three, two in a series. Battling foul trouble, we get down the stretch. I didn't feel like NBC. I thought NBC did it.

The crew did a good job. today. It was the one time where I felt like they should have been losing their minds that Wembe got that fifth foul so fast because he got four and then all of a sudden he had five and it's like, oh my God, there's seven minutes left. Is he going to foul out? What are they going to do? Are they going to take them out? So we had that and then we had the Chet self-combusting piece, which we have to get into too. But Zach, I thought this game had pieces. I had three series written down. The 81 Selt Sixers, which were the last time two awesome teams played in a game seven like this. They both had 62 plus wins. Same kind of chaotic rugby type game. Bulls pacers

with OKC and the Bulls in 98. OKC in the Bulls spot of down six, down eight, down four, down eight again, down two, down eight, just kind of trying to scrap back and getting into it. And yet the Bulls came back in one and okayC did not. And then the other one I had was the 2016 Golden State OKC game, ironically. And that was in Golden State. but okay C just the shots, they just couldn't get good shots. Like you even think about like all the offensive rebounds in the first half and then Wallace like saving them down the stretch. But the offense, the non-SGA offense was so hard for them.

So explain it to us. What happened? Well, I mean, Jill Williams and A.J. Mitchell are hurt. That's part of it. And you take those guys away and it's like, oh my God, we're real short on creators. And honestly, when SGA didn't come out at the end of the first quarter, did you think he might play all 48 minutes of the game? because I did. Well, there was two panic things. He ended up, I think, 44 minutes. That was one.

And the other was they came out to start the third quarter. They had Wallace out there and Jay Will and Caruso. And it was like, oh, we're Dagnold's doing this now. Like, he's worried this game's going to get away. So there was definitely like he's calling timeouts. I felt like he was desperately trying to hold on to this game. They did some interesting sub stuff too with the centers, especially in the second half where I think they, he was kind of realizing maybe I I can't rely on Chet. I'll start him in the third quarter, but I'm also going to have Hartonstein in as fast as I can if he's not there. But ultimately, Chet's why they lost. I don't want to do the Monday morning, you know, first take, just blame a guy.

He didn't step up, send him to Siberia. But I voted for him, I think, third team all NBA. He was the number two defensive player of the year. And he didn't want to shoot. And it got to the points act where they were throwing him pass. he wasn't even catching passes clean anymore. Like he was as far in your head as you can get on a basketball court. Would you sat him or would you have stuck with him?

I think if they had more options, they probably would have sat him. And then they sat him late from McCain when it was almost too little too late. Yeah, I mean, there's just, first of all, SGA was everything you would ever want him to be in a game where I think there was some actual like career defining pressure on him after six. series, like a scintillating game of shot making. He had the one annoying jump sideways into Devin Vassell, who he could, but, but when you get a guy airborne, the benefit of the doubt is going to go to you. When a guy bites it your pump fakes so badly that he's flying in the air, you're probably going to get to go.

I thought you couldn't go sideways on that, though. I thought they took care of that rule. You shouldn't. It's inconsistently officiated, but it doesn't matter. He played like an absolutely brilliant game. Wemby played a brilliant game. And to me, the series, the series changed in. game four when they stopped double teaming Shay.

And that was, I think you and I did a podcast after that game. And I said there's a little whiff of like when the, I didn't really make this comparison, but it was the first thing that came into my head of when the Warriors in game four of the finals in 2015 went with the death line up and started Iguodala. And you could sense like, oh, the terrain of this just changed in a way that is not going back into the tube. I thought not trapping SGA changed the whole series, made it his life difficult, made the Thunder's offense life difficult.

And I talked with Goldberry. I had a checklist for what does Oklahoma City need to win game seven, even at home? Because the Spurs had been the better team through six games. And the checklist was there were three things on the checklist. They got one. I said they needed two. One was a good Shea game. They got a great Shea game.

Two was they're going to need a really strong three-point shooting performance from the role players. I'm not counting 12 of 35 as checking that box. I think that's like 34%. they needed better than that. They were like 29% before the end of the game. And then the third one was they're going to need to force a lot of turnovers and get out in transition. And the Spurs again won the turnover battle tonight.

That's been the story of the series since game two. So they only got one out of three. I would have thrown an offensive rebounds for there, which they were getting in the first half. And then it just flipped in the second half. San Antonio ended up with 15 offensive rebounds. They had four at half time. Well, and I'll tell you, Dylan Harper had two.

and both of them led to baskets. And both of them were the result of Oklahoma City messed up a rotation at the top of the arc and the guy from the corner had to panic, rotate up at a shooter who was left open by mistake. And both times, I think it was Harper both times, the corner guy crashed and got huge rebounds. And let's, should be like, chat?

Let's do, let's do SGA and Wembe first. And then we can talk about Chet. So to finish the SGA thing, that was one of my favorite games I've ever seen him play because I felt like first of all worst possible team for him to play right where they have I think it feels like seven perimeter guys

to throw them and Wemby for everybody to play like that's just this is what this guy is now he's the worst possible guy to play if you're an offense first player but they also had a bunch of perimeter guys who seemed pretty comfortable at least trying to stay in front of them they were trapping them really smartly

and he was just solving it for two hours And I didn't think he was doing a lot of the flop stuff. I thought everything he was doing was just like really smart scoring. Made a couple threes. And it felt like, wow, if they win this game, this is going to be. I know he won two MVPs in a row and he won the title last year, but this will be like the defining game that I'm not positive he's had yet, the first game you would point to.

And then he just ran out of gas. And Reggie and Jamal, who I thought did a good job tonight, they noticed it right away. They noticed he started bailing on. the passes and stuff. But that's about as well as he could play, finished with 35. But as you said earlier,

you don't have Mitchell. Now McCain's taking up most of that Mitchell minutes and playing really well. But Jalen Williams was, that was it. Because Jalen Williams would have allowed them to go bigger, smaller. He would have been the second creator.

And they just, you could really feel it today. They didn't have that second guy. Yeah. And you mentioned the big man stuff. I think what they concluded was, and you could see them trending this way, the whole series,

was we cannot play another big man with Hartenstein because there's just not enough shooting and dynamism on the floor. But we do want to have as much size as possible because Wembe is just so dynamic at the room. We need a second layer of room protection. So we would like to play two bigs. The only two big combination we have left that we have any faith in is Jalen Williams and Chet Holngerman.

They just completely separated into those two in the second half. And part of that is like if Chet's going to be a zero, like Chet is a floor space. off the dribble attacking big man who can play with a traditional center that's the whole point of him and he ended up averaging like 10.5 points per game in the series

and was completely invisible the entire game and you never want to read too much into one game but when you play like that in this game that matters a lot and is going to have some lasting effects that he and the team are going to have to get together and figure out like how do we not have that ever

happen again because that was just not an acceptable performance of a guy from a guy of his caliber. The whole series was leading to that. And this was the low point. I got this email a few times before game seven. And I wrote down because I had a feeling we'd be talking about this. But Joe from Pennsylvania wrote, I have no dog in this fight.

But if you're an OKC fan, would you be worried that Wembe is taking Chet's soul? He wrote this before game seven. Ben Craven wrote, do you see any parallels between what Wembe is doing in Chet and what Jordan did to Drexler. Greg in Toronto wrote, is Chet First Wemby the best modern example of two generational unicorns where the mere existence of one

completely robs the relevance of the other? Chet deserves praise for not ordering a Tanya Harding level hit job on Wembe. I mean, we don't know what's going on. We're not watching the post game right now. They should all be happening now. The Tanya Harding hit job could be in now. Shane Stan, is he out of prison?

So here's the thing. I don't see how this gets better. And it's going to open up when Janus, wow, we're talking about Janus again. Janus is going to go in the next three weeks. And it does make me think like, OKC, who felt like their window was the most limitless window possible. And now all of a sudden they're like,

holy shit, we couldn't even make two finals in a row with this unbelievable setup we had. Do you start thinking that? I just feel like Chet and Janus, that's going to be mentioned for the next 72 hours. And it's not Presti style to do a trade like that, we should say. So it's not. And I do think you have to zoom out a little bit and say,

minus two of our most important players, we took a team to Game 7 who is a great, great, like these were two great, great basketball teams. Yes. It's not as if you can come away with the sort of like, we've just fallen hopelessly behind the rest of the league and like things have caught up to us. I think you would probably take the long view.

You blame the injury. is. I just think you take the long view. Like, we're not, we're not far away. We're going to learn from this. That's what I said at the beginning. I want a vengeance narrative to come. I want the Thunder to come together and say, no, no, it's still our time. It's still our time with this core. We just weren't up to it this time. We're going to learn from it and get better next time. And about Shet, first of all, after this performance, how much more does Oklahoma City have to throw in to entice Milwaukee? And you have massive second apron issues for the Thunder. They can't aggregate contracts. So it's not that easy to do. They're going to be the most, one of

the most, if not the most expensive teams in the league ever. We're talking about that later really quick. But like how much, how enticing is that to Milwaukee? But it's not like Chet. So it's disturbing that they concluded Chet is offensively, like, can't play next to his center by the end of the series. It's just not work. He's not doing anything.

He's not even looking at the rim out open three. But how about why couldn't he have done what J. Will did? J. Will was the spacing center that Chet has been for his entire career. What happened? But not only that, like, so he just can't really play center at all in this matchup. You can't put him at the five as the only big man on the floor and have him screen and roll to the basket and just do the most basic center thing that Wemby's also awesome at, which is be giant and tall and screen and roll to the basket. You can't have him guard Wemby pretty much ever. Like, you're that terrified of putting him at the five and having him guard Wemby in this series.

It's just, there are just a thousand red flags around Chet after this series. And it's just he's going to have to dig deep and they're going to have to dig deep. Because this rival is only going to get better in the next three to four years. Well, you're doing that Tim Connolly, I've now taken over Minnesota. How do I create the team to beat the team I just left? And if you're OKC now, you went from, we want to have this long window. We have these picks. We're going to try to figure out how to navigate everything, build around these three guys, use our draft picks to maybe move.

move up, move around to drafts to now, like, how do we beat Wembe? You know, do you look at number 12? There's a Michigan center who's seven foot three. Do you just like, do you try to trade up and get them? Do you try to trade Chet for, for Yannis or Evan Mowbley? Do you, I don't even know. And then the other question would be, should you even be panicking about Wemby? Because nobody has a guy to guard Wembe.

It's not like there are other teams in the league or like, we have our Wembe stopper over here. There's not going to be a Wembe stopper. They did the best job you're going to do. I think it, for me, I think it's much more toward that second poll that you outlined. It's like there is not going to be a silver bullet answer. In fact, I think if there is one, it's more shooting. I think you just, I think they were a shooter short in this series and it just made it easy for him to rove around and just patrol the pain and be on the baseline. And, you know, they're like Wallace had a good game for them tonight and is a decent shooter.

McCain is an up and down three-point shooter. I just think they were, Caruso teams are like had a great series. See, one of six on threes tonight, almost dunked on Wembe. That was exciting for about, for a second. Heard his wrist that looked like. I think if there is an answer, that's the answer. It's just we got to get as much shooting as possible and have faith in our defense around it to round it out. This was their issue last year, and it didn't really rear its ugly head, even though they did play in two seventh games.

But that was the always thing you always would look at the threes. The games that got blown out this series, they suck from three. They were moves. They could have made. during this season with all the picks and all the young players they have, you know, there were people sitting around like that, like, who knows when Trey Murphy is going to get that. That's the name that was the name floating around my head as I was talking.

Yeah. And maybe that's a move they make. That's another thing is Trey Murphy, we assume he's probably getting a trade over these next three weeks. I think Boston is a possibility. We thought whoever lost this matchup was a possibility. There's a couple other teams. But, you know, you have two, three weeks to trade for some.

somebody like that. We'll talk more, okay, see later. We'll take a quick break and we're going to come back. And we got to talk about Wembe and just everything we saw in this series and what that might look like against the next. This episode is brought to by Duluth Trading Company, whether it's the 19th inning, the 12th quarter, or the fifth and a half shift overtime, not going anywhere. which is why Duluth builds hardworking gear for folks who work their butts off.

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If you're going to nitpick his performance in the playoffs, you might say protect the defensive boards a little better. Maybe take your time on doubles. Try to figure out how to get closer to the basket. I don't know. That's all I got. He was fucking awesome. He was a maniac.

There are no nits. There's no picking. I'm not. I mean, like everyone wants him closer to the basket all the time. And I think the people who scream that all the time, even though some of them are ex-players and I certainly am not, are underestimating how fatiguing it is to throw yourself at the basket over and over and over again when you're skinny and you do what he does on defense.

And just how hard it is, like the days of just throw the ball into the post and post up and back down have been over for like 25 years. And the reality is his games are like he broke through the. other night and he took nine threes. I think he his jumper was on again today and he made that step back over Jaylon Williams on the left wing. I almost fell out of my goddamn chair. It's always going to be a

mixed and that's okay and he's defensively there are just no words anymore for what this guy is doing. I mean, I said it with Goldsbury and I wonder where this game ranks. Five of Oklahoma City's nine worst offensive games, points per possession going into this game tonight

were against for the whole season, playoffs included, were against the spurs. It's just a weapon that no one has an answer to yet. You know when you really noticed it? When he would come out of the game and SGA was like when I let Murph out in the backyard, he just runs around. SJ was like, he's not out there. You could just see like the hop and step.

It's like, oh my God. Hey, look. That's what the rim looks like. You led with it almost as a joke. I do think that cornet block, if we're going to talk about the Wembe on the bench minutes, I mean, that was, if he finishes that fast break, Hartnstein, or passes it off to Wallace because it was kind of a two-on-one. That makes it 97-93.

Wembe's in foul trouble. Crowds going crazy. Instead, it's a block, and I can't remember who ends up scoring at the other end to make it 99-91. Just, it was a castle. It was a castle jumper. That, and their transition defense, the entire series, was just balls to the wall.

Oklahoma City just could not convert in transition as consistently because everything was contested. The rebounds were contested. Like credit to spurs, that's the kind of urgency it takes to beat a team like this four times. And like that cornet, that cornet block was,

maybe the moment of the entire game. I don't know, but it's up there. Well, there were two moments when it felt like okay, C was going to make a run. And that was one. So it's 97, 92, 648 left. Wemby has to come out.

And then there was that other one when it was, I'm going to say it was like two minutes left. Wallace hit that second three. And then San Antonio imbounded the ball. All this stuff's blending together. And they just decided to run the, let's throw it to Wemby play.

Oh, yeah, door took it away. Door took it. And OKC just couldn't convert. But it felt like, oh, my God, this would be the classic young team falling apart piece. But listen, I really respect when somebody knows

how to handle themselves with five, because they brought him back a minute later. He came back with like over five minutes left. And the announcers were talking about and I agreed. Like, I'm just going at him and trying to get that, that six one. And there were a couple times that felt like they could have attacked him. And they just didn't. So there were a couple things St. Antonio did, even in this game to try to try to get him a little

more open, a couple of times they just put him in the corner and created space, basically left him on one side and had him not really back down, but he was. at least 18 feet where he can go toward the paint with his right hand. So maybe trying to think what stuff the Knicks will try to do against them. Now, the Knicks have that Mitchell Robinson finger thing. I assume who's going to play, but who knows? They'll have towns to throw at him who's a dumbfow waiting to happen all the time. Other than that, who are they going to be able to, like OG would be the other one, I guess.

Ananoi guarded him quite a lot. I rewatched all the games this weekend to prep for. Little Josh Hart, maybe? A second or no. Josh didn't guard him much. Josh guarded Steph Castle a lot. O.G guarded him a lot, probably Towns, and Ananoby and Robinson, and then there's like random guys who are in these games because they're regular season games, like Cuck Porty comes in and whatever. I think we'll see a little bit of, and that is where the Harrison Barnes swap out of the starting lineup for Champany, who was absolutely nailed in this game tonight, looms large because when the Knicks would play around like that and put Ananoby on Wembeiyama, Harrison Barnes was the guy that they would be like, all right, Kat, just like stand in the corner with Harrison,

Barnes and that's safe for you. And that doesn't really exist anymore. But the Robinson, I just want to flag it now. I think he's a massive deal in this series because one of the other things I've come to believe watching Wembe is everyone searches for like, what's an answer? Is there an answer? Is there a player? And like I said, I don't think there is one.

There's no individual player. I think shooting is an answer. And I do think an elite offensive rebounder and lob catcher, someone that he's got to think about like if I try to block every shot and even I'm going to miss some, am I going to get punished on the other end of it? Or is there a lob threat? And I think Mitchell Robinson, obviously in the Vegas game, he had like a thousand offensive rebounds. I think that player type is a really important player type against the Spurs. And like, if they don't have Mitchell Robinson full throttle, I think that's a bigger problem in this matchup than it would have been

against the Thunder. I wrote, anytime I watch a game like this, I always write down in the second quarter, in bold, the guys who I think I trust in the game. So for the Spurs, I had Wembe, Castle, Fox, Vassell, Harper, and Champany. So it's six guys for them. And that was before the Kelden Johnson Renaissance in the second half, right? They had seven guys really show up in this game, not to mention Cornette, who had the biggest defensive play. For OKC, at that point, by the way, I just want to point out, that's basically,

all seven guys who played in the game. The other three guys played six minutes, three minutes and three minutes. I felt great about all those guys. OKC, I had SGA, McCain, Caruso, and then I had I heart question mark and J. Will question mark. And those were the only five guys I had for OKC.

Now, I didn't have Wallace down and Wallace came on in the second. He didn't really play as much in the first half. And Wallace should have been on there. Maybe I forgot to write him down. But it was interesting. I didn't have Chet. And I didn't have Kelvin Johnson. And Kelden Johnson, who I thought really wasn't good this series.

But then in the second half, he had some big offensive rebounds. He had a couple big threes that there were a couple no, no yes threes. And had the right kind of energy, right kind of energy. Whereas like from the OKC standpoint, Dort was that guy for them last year. He would give them energy with defense, with, you know, just like kind of veteran stuff. just wasn't, I didn't feel like he was the same in this playoffs. Look, I think it's not second guessing.

I, and certainly I was not alone said after game six. Like, I don't think you can start Dort and Holmgren and Hardinstein again in game seven because you're just getting boat raced at the beginning of every game. Would you have started Harper and Baylor and Baylor Shireman? But I, again, I said after that game, I don't know, like we always say chestnut checkers. I'm not sure what Missoula was playing. I think he was playing Boggle that night. neither chest nor checkers.

I just couldn't believe he started that lineup again. To his credit, he pulled Dort real fast and put Caruso in and the damage was not as severe as it could have been. But every time the Thunder got close,

there were two times the Thunder took the lead. And when they took the lead, it felt like they had gotten to the top of the mountain and boy, what a relief. And just instantaneously, the Spurs would go on like a 9-0 run to say like, no, no, we're going to retake control again. the first one is at the end of the first half when they finished on a 70 run right after the

thunder took the lead and I think there was another time in the second half and just like that's so impressive to take that punch to have the crowd going like that four point lead three point lead whatever it was and just instantaneously like oh an 11-0 run just happened and it's not just they're ahead again they're in control of the game again and they got to fight back again from seven eight nine down it's just like sensational responses by the spurs fox especially I thought had a couple big boy moments. Right when the momentum felt like it was shifting against him and he had some old school. Did he win clutch player of the year?

He might have. I don't know. Second, he was like, he did. No, he did. I think it was the beam team year, which was the first year they had the award. I don't have my clutch player of the year by year thing framed yet.

So I'm not able to look at it. But, but it was the old school. Fox ended with 15.5. He had three steals. And I thought he did an okay job anytime he was on SGA too. I don't even really know who OKC was trying to switch SGA onto

because it felt like every single guy was at least passable with Wemby behind them. There wasn't like a black hole type person. If we'd end in the next series, it would have been Brunson. It ends up not mattering because doesn't matter of the guy that's behind him, like you said. Yeah.

So Champany hit six threes. And it was interesting. They didn't close with Vassel. Bissell. He was on the bench, I felt like, for most of the end, because they were playing Harper, who we have to talk about. Listen, man, I've talked about it before, so have you. 20-year-old point guards doing this on this stage on the road is unheard of.

This is, yeah, I'm trying not to use the word generational. But we're talking 1980 Magic Johnson at age 20 in the finals. and we're talking Derek Rose and that Bull Celtics playoff series. 20-year-old point guards are a mess. They're like freshmen in high school just trying to remember what their locker combination is and just trying to survive the day

and remember where the classrooms are. They're not supposed to be running the offense. He had that one when we backed down. I can't remember who it was. He backed him down, did the footwork thing and kind of stopped. I think traveled. It felt like it might have been of travel,

but somehow ended up pulling, but I just, we're going to have 15 years of that. I thought that was such an important game for him because now, you know, the Knicks, that atmosphere is going to be even crazier. It's the finals. The spotlight's a little bigger, but I think they know with him. He seemed healthy to me, too, the last two games, which is the big thing. Yeah, bounce back. His bounce is back. His power around the rim is back. He's trying to do that crazy dunk, too. Yeah. In the fourth quarter, which was probably a mistake, but he was like,

I'm going for it. He went on check. Yeah. I mean, they killed some clock before, but again, I was surprised that he just went for it, but I'm also not because he thinks he's going to pull it off. And imagine if you do, you just, I think Chet Holmgren would have just broken into like 10,000 pieces and that would have been the end of him. And like, I don't know what you, I just don't know what would have happened. Poor Chet. This is really going to be going to be a tough one for him. So Harper Castle Fox together. This was the dream when you get Fox when it's like, we'll have these three guys. Sometimes we'll even be able to play them together. This will ease Harper into this. Fox on a bigger

stage on a better team. Fox is in Sacramento and would you call them in our over under pod? The Hindenburg or the NBA. I said they were they were heading for a Hindenburg level season. By the way, we have a Deer and Fox, Mike Brown, we got off the Indianburg reunion coming up in the finals.

We have a reunion for them. But Fox gets out of there. The ringers, Rich Paul, smartly puts him on Wembe's team, which was, I think, a good move. And this couldn't have worked better. I mean, you guess where else he could be on Sacramento? With Russell Westbrook and DeRosen and waited to see who they pick, how they're going to

fuck up the seventh pick. So you have that castle was, you know, I thought he was incredible the whole series for his, he's 21. It's not like he's 10 years older than Harper. The defense, when he had the four fouls, I was nervous for them because it's like, I don't know if you can survive if he's out of the game that long. I don't know. What does he become? What is Castle in five years for you? Who is he? I mean, an all-star, for sure. A multi-time all-star.

Who's the doppelganger? Like, who is it? I mean, you have to think who's a big physical guard who gets by with brute force and passing creativity around it. And by that time, it's probably a more reliable jump shooter than he is now, although he shot the three well in the playoffs. Like, I'm trying to even think of who plays with the raw power and, like, ferocity. that he has.

Like he plays with like a hatred of the guy in front of him. Like I just want to beat the shit out of you and go up right in your face. Yeah, he was tired of Caruso after seven games. I think he had enough of him. I don't know. I don't know who he is. No one is coming to my mind is like a great guard wing doppelganger for him. It's somebody that definitely belonged in a different era and decade.

I think he would have been really happy in 2003 or 2004. being in like those Pacers Piston series. But yeah, I don't, I don't really know even who to compare him to. Like a meaner, is he taller than Dwayne Wade? Like a meaner, more aggressive, more like powerful Dwayne Wade? I don't know. It's like a Dwayne Wade crust with Alvin Robertson. I'm going to go back to the 80s for Alvin Robertson.

So anyway, you have that, you have this cornet sign in that they do that was really smart. they played the Celtics perfectly. And then Cornette, every time Wembe comes out, they lose the Cornet minutes. And at some point, I had a couple people in my life who liked the Spurs.

We're like, what's up with this Cornet? What a stiff. I'm like, he's not a stiff. Cornett's a good backup. This is just for whatever reason, can't get it going in this series.

And then finally I was able to hold the Ford a little tonight. But what's interesting about them going forward. They have the Wembe extension this summer regardless, but they can still kind of dabble and make this team better. I don't even know what you would do

because you always want to base this stuff on who do we have in a game seven that we trust. And we just went through it. Seven guys I like. Yeah, they have small windows to do small to medium things. The big things are over. I looked at it a little bit too. And I didn't think too deeply about it because the series was still going on there. It's not nearly as financially dire as what's about to hit the thunder.

No. And they have the Carter Bryant piece too. like if he emerges, Kelvin Johnson will expire next year, but if Carter Bryant becomes that perfect, like defensive physical bangor who can also hit threes and play next to Wembe,

that's kind of what they need. Well, the Kelden Johnson one is a big one because if they end up having to keep him at what a fair rate would be for a guy who just won six men of the year, and they love him and maybe they will, but if they keep him,

they're going to, I think they should probably want to re-sign, extend or resign Champany. They have a team option on him next year for nothing for $3 million. They get pretty expensive if they keep everybody together. But again, they have windows now. And by the way, we should. We always do this thing where we, we, the collective we, everybody, points out when a team,

like the Rockets were the first team that we talked about like this, the Pistons had gotten a little flack for it. Like, well, they had all these trade assets and they did nothing at the trade deadline and look how it came back to haunt them in the playoffs. The Spurs did nothing at the trade deadline and they have a lot of assets. And everyone, I think, thought they were going to do something at the trade deadline. and they didn't, and they're in the finals. So sometimes it goes the other way, too.

I was okay with them because I felt like it was probably a year ahead of schedule. They needed to taste their own butt in the playoffs. As it turned out, they didn't. No, they're drinking everybody else's blood. But, yeah, it's just like, let's take a year and see what we have because that's like what Sam Presti would have done, for instance. But as it turned out, it turned out to be an incredible move. And they have a bunch of picks, too.

like they're going to be able to have some maneuverability. So how many Knicks fans in your life were texting you over the last 48 hours asking you who they should be rooting for in this game? Oh, just because I had every single Knicks fan I knew was like, what do you think? Who should I root for? And I'm like, if I'm you, I don't want to play when being the finals. That's who I would root for. So it's funny.

I said this with Goldsbury. Like, I just think you just have to say I don't care because the easy answer is like the answer they default to is the spurs because, oh, We beat the Spurs, you know, twice and including in the cup. And like, we looked pretty comfortable against them. We killed them at home in March. And the thunder of the thunder, I'm like, I just don't. Dispers have risen to the level where there's just no great answer here.

They're both bad answers. But if Gillian Williams is hurt and A.J. Mitchell is hurt. I think the thunder might actually be the better answer because I don't want any, I don't want any part of these guys. But they're just, they're just excited. And honestly, like weirdly, a lot of them were. were a lot of my Knicks fans friends and acquaintances and people I run into, were rooting for the Spurs regardless because they're just fascinated with Wembe.

And they have a lot of people really just have bought into, even casual fans that bought into like the flopping with Oklahoma City drives me crazy. And I just don't like the way they play. Like Knicks fans were, they're just like, you know what, let's have some problem with Wembe. It'll be fun at the very least. I am delighted that we don't have to talk about flopping anymore. Thank God.

Thank God that's over for content. And the most fun possible series was Nick Spurs. Even though the basketball historian side of me was like, man, OKC going through wars to try to win two straight titles, like that would be really meaningful. That would put them on this whole other level. But Nick Spurs is the most fun series. And if you're the league, this is like the this is the all time wet, the only other wet dream. If you're talking wet dream finals, it's this one. It's 2016 LeBron rematch against the 73 win warriors coming off the Clay Thompson OKC game.

It's the 2010 Lakers Celtics rematch, right? Those are the three wet dream finals for the league. And this might be number one. Honestly, out of everything we mentioned, because you have the revival of the Knicks. You have 53 years and generations of fans waiting for this forever. and you have Wemby, your next guy, the guy who's ready to replace LeBron and Curry as the guy in the league already here.

It's like what we had in 2007, except the rest of his team is actually good when it was Spurs calves. And it's like, LeBron's here. Yeah, but he's playing with guys that have no chance against his spurs team. This is different. Like Wembe could actually win it.

And I feel like we have some history with Wembe, too, now. And I think the Olympics was really important with that. even though he's young and he hasn't been around and he missed half the last season, I still feel like I've seen him in some basketball games. Like he doesn't feel like a shiny new car to me. He can't to you, right? We've been watching him for a few years now. We've been talking about him as arguably the best player in the league for five months now.

Like he's here. He's been in big games. The international stuff was big. And the Olympics. Yeah. And this is, you know, another finals without any of the sort of older generation players that have carried the league for a long time. And it's the first, I think, well, I mean, depending on how you perceive of Shea or whatever,

but obviously there is a guy like everyone, everyone is fascinated by Wenbaniama. People who have watched two basketball games the entire year and kind of half watch them while drinking in the suite somewhere at MSG, like can't wait to watch this guy play on a big stage. He did a thing today in the fourth quarter. It was, there were, it was like halfway through the fourth quarter. Dylan Harper, maybe even like four minutes left, Dylan Harper ended up with the ball

and he kind of lost it around the foul line. All of a sudden there's a fast break. And the OKCA had a two on one. And they ended up throwing into the left corner to McCain. And Wembe was hustling back. And he's on like the three point line, but somehow challenged the shot. And he did like that crazy Wemby,

like Freddie Krueger movie does. And he almost blocked it. And if he had blocked it, that would have been the greatest block I've ever seen. If he, If I had had time, I would have gone back and slowed it down because he's running and you know he's going to jump at it. And you're just thinking he's so big that he's just, Jared Bacan, it is at least going to know that he's coming, but probably also think he can't actually get to it. But I'm easing my head a little bit.

Like, did he actually almost like in a figurative on it? He almost had it. It seemed like he did from the camera. And that's like, Tariko on the call, God bless him was like, oh, Wembe did that Cornette contest. Oh, if only Luke Cornett could do a cornet contest like that. That was not the cornet contest. That was something altogether different. I get where you're going.

He started from very far away, but that was not the cornet contest. This episode is brought to you by Dove Men Plus Care. Fellas, it's time to care for your skin like you care for the game. Dove Men Plus Care is an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026 and has just dropped their new limited edition deodorant antiperspirant collection. The deodorant is just a jubin is just a good. gentle on your skin, bringing you 72-hour protection with zero aluminum. The antiperspirant comes in a goes-on dry spray for a smooth glide stick, keeping you fresh from kickoff to the final whistle.

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You also get a chance to receive a Tim Horton's scholarship award. Ready for what's next? Apply today at careers.timhorins.ca. Fandle has the finals line for us Okay you saw it you looked at it I saw it it was not what I would have guessed I'll tell you what I would have guessed after but what is your guess?

Spurs very Spurs very slight favorites What is the proper terminology Like minus 110 or something like that Like minus so like minus 125 minus 130 range Is slight favorites Yeah so I would have said Spurs Minus 150

And it's Spurs minus 1 50 And it's Spurs minus 205. 2-1 favorites. Very similar to the Boston-Dallas finals line. If you want to do Spurs Sweep, that's plus 730.

If you want to do Nixon 4, Nixon 5, that's 60 to 1 or 12-to-1. If you want to do the greatest night of basically everyone's life that we know from New York, Knicks win in 6 plus 480.

Look, if the Knicks win in 6... Shut down New York's I'm either sleeping in Madison Square Garden or I'm doing a live podcast from the street just drinking with crazy people and you may never see me again. Those are the only two alternatives. I'm not sure we see really anybody again. I don't know what happens. I mean, that will be the highest price basketball ticket of all time.

It will be in the running for highest price sports ticket about time. I don't know. If assuming we get it, let's assume we'd knock on wood. that we have a game six and maybe a game seven in these finals? I'm supposed to go through. I can't go live after game two because my son is graduating high school. Big moment. Last time I skipped a game for his graduation was the Curry game,

Curry Game for Boston Gold State when he graduated. Which you have stated was probably good for your emotional health to not be at the game despite its historic significance. I felt like whatever I did, they were going to lose. But I'm glad I didn't go. I missed the greatest game of Step Curry's career, but my son obviously means more as he does for this high school graduation. But it's just it almost guarantees game two is going to be good.

I'm not saying I have those powers. It's good for Ben Simmons that he's that he stayed above NBA players that you don't really know in the Bill Simmons love power rankings. That he's sustained in these intervening four years that he hasn't fallen off at all, teenage Ben Simmons. And stayed ahead of the other Ben Simmons, who is now a professional fisherman. That was another thing.

I was worried he was going to be, like, what if Ben Simmons had been Wembe Gama, like been the biggest star in the league? Did they work? Did they work? Did they work Ben Simmons into the Sixers gone fishing graphic? They must have, right? Like, if they didn't, like, won a missed opportunity. He could be on another boat just fishing randomly, like not even, not even on the Sixers

boat. You're just on a boat nearby. Yeah, is that in a boat in the back? Yeah. You don't have to say your finals pick, but are you leaning, I'll save it for your podcast, the Zach Lowe Show, a great podcast. Yeah. Are you leaning longer series or shorter?

Longer. Longer. I haven't made up. I haven't made up my mind on who I'm going to pick to win, but I will say I think the line, I would not favor the spurs by as much as Vegas is favoring. I agree with you. Off the bat. I think this next thing is real.

Like, I think it's legit. I don't care what the level. of competition is like to do this for this long and hit and you just know like i i know what my eyes saw how they are playing but the mitchell robinson thing is a big a big x factor the other x factor is the the spurs probably just feel like they won the title even though they have another team waiting but that was such a to come back three two to do that on the road it's about as emotional of a just getting to the finals i'm trying to think who would have had a more emotional we just won the conference finals win in the recent history of the NBA.

Because normally it's more veteran teams, right? I guess OKC beating San Antonio in 2012, but even that wasn't a game seven. Oh, we're making like winners. Like they had to have won the series. I'm just saying winning the conference finals being that emotional to just win a conference finals.

Miami beating Boston in 2012 was a good one, but they were home. Yeah. But yeah, it's pretty rare to have. like, I remember going back to the 90s because I wrote down, it's funny, I went through all the game sevens in conference finals because what was rare about the thing today, there was every time it's under 200 points. Like for basically before 1993, every game has been under 200 points except

for 2002 Lakers Kings overtime was 106, 102. So usually they're rock fights. And then for the most part, Home teams always won until recently. And that was the fifth one in a row that the road team has won, which is nuts. So home teams. Conference finals, game seven specifically. Conference finals, game seven specifically. But I'm looking at the list of most emotional ones. I guess LeBron beating Boston by himself in 2018 is up there.

That was one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. He played all 48. I know he'd won a couple titles already, but the emotion of just dragging that team that he had all the way three series. That was pretty nuts. That was the only emotional Eastern Conference triumph for that LeBron 2.0 in Cleveland because the other ones, I'm not even sure they realized what round they were in. And someone was just told, no, you actually are in the finals. You get to play the West team. You just beat all these teams again.

94 Knicks over Indiana was one. And then Barclay over Seattle in 93 was another one. And then the most famous one for me was the Celtics Sixers won in 81 when everyone charged a court. and you know, that's still, I think, the greatest playoffs is in the time. The Stockton shot in Houston.

Oh, that's a great one. 97. Yeah. The Mount Maloney team. That's a really good one. But I wonder how much they have left in a tank. Wembe has never played this many minutes for this kind of a stretch. They've been really, really, really careful with him,

almost like a pitcher, not throwing more than like five, six innings. But he was 40, 40 minutes or around there for about a month. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what they have left in the tank. Let's talk about what happens with OKC. I always like to play, What do you do with you? So we talked about the safest thing to do is just be like,

look, man, we won the title last year. We had a big bull's eye on us all year. It was the first time we became the villains. The flopping thing became a huge storyline constantly. People just didn't like us. That's always a weird thing to deal with for the first time. And then we had some bad luck in the playoffs. We went against a guy who's the best player of the leagues had since LeBron and Curry from a ceiling standpoint.

And a team that just took it from us and we were banged up and injured and let's not overreact. That would be the safe, smart move. I don't think they're going to do that. Okay. What do you think you're going to do? I think you have to start getting creative with some of these picks. Because the thing that they have is they can go 130, 140 cents on the dollar in a trade. And you're stockpiling all these picks.

Now, they just changed with the lottery form. Those picks might actually be even worth a little bit more than maybe they used to be. But, you know, I'm just not wasting this SGA window when he's this good. You know, this is four years in a row now where he's been one of the one to four best players in the league. And you just never know when that window's going to end. So I would try to get at least a little creative. What do they need? What's your all-time fixer?

just improve the Chet Spot? What would be your move? I mean, but how am I improving the Chet Spot? Janice? Again, I have to aggregate, like, it's, it's, anything's possible when you have as many pixels of Thunder have, but the, the restrictions of the second, I'm not going to let that slide. The restrictions of the second apron are real and like make it very hard for the Thunder

to make trades because they can't aggregate salaries, they can't take back a dime more. Like, there's a lot of restrictions that just make this mechanical. much. I think... Are they over the second April now or it's next year? They're not over it now. I don't know if they're over it now, but... I don't think they're over yet. When the calendar flips to July 1st, they're going to fly over it.

So next year, just so people know, SGA is 40, but then he goes to 60, 65, 70, 75. Chet and J-dub both start five-year, $239 million deals. They have Mitchell, who they re-signed at 3, 3,000. and three, the best contract in the league. They have Caruso at 19.5. It's unbelievable that country. They have team options for Hartenstein, Hartnstein, 29.

They're under the aprons now. So they have team options for Hartnstein for 29, Dort for 18. They have to deal with Kaysan Wallace, whether you want to extend him or not, get him on a good deal. And then they have Joe and Wiggins and Jay Will making a combined $30 million next year.

Plus Topich and Sorber making nine. Sorbra is just the forgotten man, just another mid-first round picks sitting there waiting to contribute next year. That they might, if they are really under the crunch,

might have to use picks to try to get rid of it. They have the 12th and 17th pick this year. They have a Clippers swap next year. They have a top five Denver first. They have a Dallas swap in 28. They have a Denver top five protected first in 29, and then they have their own first.

What do we do to mark the moment when that clipper swap is exercised and the Paul George trade ends. Do we have a... Is it like when the last episode of Seinfeld? I was thinking the last episode... Do you have like a clip show leading into the final episode

and then a party after? I was thinking like the last episode of The Sopranos. Like every podcast just goes blank when they're talking about it and people think we're all dead. I got a mailbag question wondering if they should raise to the banners, Paul, George, and Kauai because of all the,

all the good stuff that trade brought them. Why not? Not the worst idea. So, all right. So get creative. I mean, they can do a, they can, I think the, I think the number one need is shooting more than anything else. And I don't know where they get it.

But, but yeah, they can bundle a bunch of picks and move up in the draft. They can bundle picks and players and try to get like a low price player. And the Chet one is, Chet one's tricky. And did Jell and William? I mean, this was more. or less a lost season for Jalen Williams like almost an entire like lost

season. And now they're going to jump up and make all NBA level money next year. And that is a proven big three on a championship team. We just saw it last year. But it, we just didn't see enough of it this year in terms of availability. And like

this game tonight, I just don't think we can talk enough about what just happened to Chet Holgram in this game. Like that was a disaster. and I'm just fascinated where he goes from here personally. Well, and we've also seen a couple times in NBA history where a guy had such a bad playoffs, it followed him, right?

It definitely affected Dirk for a couple years. There's no question. One of the famous Celtics examples was Antoine Walker when Kenyon Martin just destroyed him. I honestly felt like Antoine Walker was never the same after that second Net series. Like Kenny Martin just took his lunch. And then we mentioned Drexler earlier as another one where Drexler was the second best player in the league in 92. But next year, I don't even think he made it all in the NBA team. Like between that and kind of being a backup on the dream team and getting his ass kicked by Jordan every day, like he just wasn't the same after that.

So the question is, do you start to worry that that could be Chet? And then if I'm another team in the league, do I feel like this is my opportunity to try to go get Chet? And what is Chet? Like, what if what am I getting in Chet? because am I getting a guy who is this another, you know, it's hard for these big guys where it's like we, we're doing it with Mowgli and Chet like, oh, they have this well-rounded game.

Like maybe this is year they're going to develop into a 24-pointed game score and the perimeter game's going to come along. And it's just, it's hard. And are you ever getting that guy or is he going to be 19 a game, second best defense player in the league, reasonable three-point shooter? I mean, the total vanishing of his three-point shot is astonishing. It's inexplicable. I think it was like one of the best things about his game.

And it's the thing that like, yeah, okay, sure, it's hard for you as a big man to, a skinny big man to dribble against wings that are guarding you and get to your spot. You're not an overpowering ball handler is going to back people down. But that's the thing that should never go away, no matter what, no matter what or where, or however you're going to get five open threes a game by spotting on. And it just, he got, I think he averaged less than two attempts per game and was completely invisible in the biggest game of the year. 27% from three in this series before tonight.

What did he shoot tonight? Was it like one for two or something? I mean, he even take a three? He didn't shoot zero for zero. So you can just- Wow. So he finished 27% really odd. It's not the percentage.

How many did he take? He took 11 threes in seven games. He passed up a couple too tonight that Jamal and Reggie called him out for right away. Like, wow, he's got it. Yeah. Like they were about as harsh on him. during the broadcast, as you hear announcers.

The only one who will really do that is Van Gundy. But they were over and over again, like, where's Chet? What's going on here? Why isn't he been more impactful? Straight up was like, hello, hello. Right. Like Ken Rich Williams attempted as many threes in the series as Chet did. But the other thing is, shouldn't he have, like, if I had told you he's going to do zero

threes in game seven or 10, what number would you have believed? I would have believed the 10 because it was like, oh, they're finally like, this is their strategy now to pull Wembe out. They went smaller with Chet at center. And he's just going to shoot threes. But he just, as I said earlier, when he wasn't catching passes clean anymore, that's when you know you're in your head. Like when the ball handling pass catch stuff goes sideways.

So as long as they are, assuming we're both right that they're under the second apron for like the next month. Like, so let's just let's just do it then. Do you think Chet plus you're going to have to throw in someone else good? I'll just make up a big trade. Throw in some of their extra picks. No, let's just go Chet plus Kaysen Wallace plus Sorber, plus three unprotected first and three swaps,

including some of my swaps from other teams for Janus. Do you think that's a good idea? I think that's way too much. I wouldn't have Wallace in it. I would have less picks and less swaps because who am I competing? Of course, you would like to do that. I know, but who am I competing against for Janus? I'm competing against Miami, who I can top any offer they have.

And now Orlando, because we didn't talk about this, but they hired Sean Sweeney, the San Antonio bench coach who spent, what, five years of the honest, four years of the honest in Milwaukee. And I think makes not the first person to make this point, but I think that entered them into the honest chat for trades. There's no question. So it's like, is Palo on the table for Janus? Is that even a possible trade?

I don't know. You might be competing against that. that too. Sure. I mean, again, they traded all their picks for Desmond Bain, so I'm not sure how many sweeteners they can throw in there. If I'm the bucks and I could get rid of Janus and just start over and have Palo as the centerpiece, I'm doing that. But like, the thing about the Thunder's offer offers whatever you want to say compared to the heat or whoever you want to throw out there is like at least if I'm Milwaukee and I trade them to Miami or I trade him to Golden State or something like, at least I'm getting picks where I have some expectation that

I can bet against that team being successful and some of these picks might end up being pretty valuable. Even with the lottery rules changing, if I trade them to Oklahoma City, even if I like fleece Oklahoma City, there's just not, there's no world, reasonable world that I can project where those picks are going to be any good. And I'm probably not getting any of my own picks back, which is another little side plot. But I still kind of like the Jalen Brown to Portland, Janus to Boston, a bonanza of picks, including Milwaukee's own picks that Portland's have.

Yeah. Coming back and young players going back to Milwaukee. I kind of like that trade construction. I have no idea how interested anybody actually isn't doing it. But I don't mind it. I keep saying it. I don't think Boston's in on Yonis. I mean, I certainly not sensed any great urgency from them to break up their team.

I think the reason to trade Jalen would be to not want to have the. two 70 million guys in two years or 65 or whatever it is. So to just flip him into somebody else who then's going to want an extension. That's the other thing with the honest. To me, it feels like a very un-OKC move. Like if we're really going to, like we've been with Presti now for 20 years. Presti's a huge chemistry guy. He's a huge put personnel is together, certain types, be patient.

Like even like when that first OKC run, that was when you and I started. of working together. And the hardened trade was a big trade for them because they couldn't afford them, even though I feel like they could have. But then you look at the next couple years, remember how hesitant they were to do anything? And then that last year when they thought KD might be leaving, that was when they went over the tax and they made some big swing trades

and did like the Dionne Waiters and a whole bunch of weird trades that they did. I think for the most part, he's pretty careful. The one time the Perkins-Jef Green trade, which feels like it was 700 years ago now is a little bit similar to this Chet situation, I think, where it was like Jeff Green, KD, Cardin, Westbrook, those were like their four guys. Oh, they'll never trade.

And then all of a sudden he did it. He traded Jeff Green because he needed his center. And that would be like, so we know he could be cutthroat if he needs to be. I mean, Chet is now an All-Star and an All-NBA level player. This is just a completely different conversation. I mean, there was also the Abaca trade, which was, you know, like when they got Ola Depot.

No, he's, yeah, it's a bigger situation because you're going to get a better player back than Kendra Perkins. But the other thing is like Janus plus J-dub plus Shea, like the financial, I'm not solving any financial issues with that kind of trade. In fact, I'm just, I'm getting even more expensive. I don't see, I don't see them doing and messing with, you know, now you got the brothers there. And it doesn't feel like an OKC move.

I would say the move would be, hey, we should have won and Jaylon Williams got hurt. and you talk yourself into that world and you don't do anything. But the question is, is Czech going to do the Dirk Australia? We don't see him again for four months because he's going to take a ton of shit all week. I mean, and look, I don't love piling on.

That was dumbfounding. Like, the whole series was dumbfounding. He had a couple moments in game five and six where he seemed to like crash the offensive glass, had a couple nice takes against Vassell, whatever. This was just a dumbfounding game. And in a game where they, The need for anyone to produce offensively other than Shea was never more glaring than in this game.

And he just didn't do anything. Wow, 32 minutes, one for two. Like you almost looks like it's like the James Hart in 2021 Brooklyn Game 7 box score when he was on one leg. Well, and you're right. Oh, yeah, he was hurt. But Chet was healthy for this game. And the last two things I remember him doing on offense. Yeah, you know, he had that nice block on Dylan Harper were dropping.

dropping an entry pass. Now he recovered it, but it took the, it took the he like cut into the middle of the floor, Shea passed it to him and he dropped it and it disrupted the whole rhythm. And then he tried to drive on Victor and you could hear the broadcast gearing up like, here he goes, he's going to it. And then he just like fell over. And like,

I couldn't even see him on the floor. And like those are my last two memories of Ched Holmgren on offense. Yeah, it's it does have shades of that Jordan Drexler thing. But more like, it's almost like a boxing thing where the, or like what happened with Rhonda Rousey when she was just, you know, beating everybody, making everyone submit.

And then all of a sudden she fought Holly home, got knocked out and, like, lost her mojo. And, like, kind of never got it back. She ended up losing again. And that's why what I'm rooting for is come back for vengeance because the end of Ron Zaroussi was not that fight. It was the next fight against Amanda Nunes when she was- Oh, look at Zach talking to UFC. This is so excited. When it was very clear that she was broken as a fighter, it would never be repaired.

I want this is amazing. Let's dig out of it. Come back. Like everyone should be fucking pissed off. Like, no, we're not ready to pass the torch. We want to go at that guy. We want to do it together. I'm going to learn from this experience.

This was my low point. Like, I'm coming back next year, Jell and Williams. Got to be so frustrated that he just lost an entire season, lost an entire Western Conference finals other than a few minutes here and there where he didn't do much. And just like, go back at him next year. I'm glad you brought that up. what happened to Jalen Williams? He played, I have it in my notes.

He played last year. He played over 3,000 minutes, right? Regular season in playoffs. This year he played a thousand. I know he got hurt. I'm asking you, how do we end up with him playing a thousand minutes this year where it wasn't like a knee injury or torn MCL or like, this is just like a hamstring injury that he just kept having for eight months?

Like, what the fuck? Well, it happens. I mean, it happens. And obviously everyone is a lot more cognizant of like if we if we push this too far, real bad stuff can happen. Now hamstring Achilles, it's not the same. They didn't push it far at all. I mean, if anything, they pushed, they unpushed it because they were just hoping he could

be healthy for basically two rounds. And he couldn't even do that. He had a wrist injury too that messed up his, uh, his, his, his, like, pattern in the middle of the season. But yeah, I mean, look, it just. he got hurt and every time he played, he would get hurt and he would feel it. I mean,

it wasn't subtle. He would come off the court grabbing his left hamstring. Like something isn't right there. And it was causing pain and discomfort and it wasn't getting any better. And look, he played 37 minutes in game one and I thought he played quite well. And that game you've talked about it a lot. Like took,

like there was punishment from that game. Like there were lasting effects that both teams had to deal with and overcome from that crazy. Maybe that was their tactical mistake was. unleashing him too much in that game. Because that game, it's weird because this wasn't a great series, but it had an all-time game one and a really good game seven. And then everything in the middle, we're never going to remember.

And I think, like, we have short memories. And you and I were arguing about this a little bit before the series where you said Chet's the second best player on the Thunder. I was like, all due respect, like, I think we're about to be reminded of what Jalen Williams is. And then we were and then he was gone. Like, that guy's fucking awesome. That guy showed out in the finals last year in a seven game finals.

He's a six, eight monster wing who can do everything. Like, he's, he's, and like, isn't this as a neutral fan what you want? Like, get the gang back together and take a shot at. Like, isn't that more fun than panic trade for Janus and all of a sudden? Gang's not going to be back together, though. Well, the core gang, like the main part of the gang. Like, the side characters might change, but like the main part of the gang. That's more fun to me as a neutral fan than panic trade for Janus.

we get way older, so different, we disrupt. Don't we want continuity? I would not pay in a trade for you honest. Don't we want continuity? Don't we want to watch great teams, the core of great teams, not the top eight or top nine, but like the core of great teams. Don't we want them to stay together and grow together? Isn't that what we want as fans?

Don't we want them to come back and try to avenge this? That's what I want. Guy by the name of Magic Johnson. You might have heard from him or might have heard of him. 1984 finals sucked. Got the nickname Tragic Johnson. Guess what? He was fine. That would be what I told Chet.

Presti's going to take him out. They'll go get an ice cream cone in downtown Oklahoma City. He'll be like, have you ever heard of the Magic Johnson story, 84 finals, rock bottom, came back, ended up winning three MVPs and three titles. That could be us, Chet. He'll bust. The Presby will bust out an obscure 80s hip-hop song, rap song, where he's like, you're going to like the lyrics to this.

This is going to speak to you. Yeah. Just think about this. later. Can you be Joe Dumars for a second, New Orleans general manager? And I'll be, I need another phone. I need another phone. I'm Sam Presti calling you. Hello? Hey, Joe.

I've got. I already threw the phone to Troy Weaver. I already threw my phone. I'm scared. I threw my phone to Troy. Troy. I have, I have Lou Dorts expiring. I'm going to pick that up the team option.

I could pick up the Hartenstein. team option for 29. I've got Aaron Wiggins to offer you. I have the 12th pick in the draft and the 17th pick. What else do I need to just get you to trade, Trey Murphy to me? Sorry, the phone went. Our landlines are out.

There was a power outage. No, so no, like give me the package again. Hartenstein, 12, 17. I'll give you 12 and 17. I will give you Hartnstein and Dort on expirings. And I'll take back Jordan Poole in the Murphy trade. I'll take back Jordan Poole's expiring. You'll take back Jordan Poole.

Now I'm paying attention. I will. So you give me Poole and Murphy. I'll give you 12 and 17. I'll give you the Hartinstein expiring. The Dord expiring. I'll take Jordan Poole for a year as an expiring contract. So now I have eight centers on my team that I've got to figure out how to play together.

Okay. Also, instead of Hartnstein, you can keep Jordan Poole, I'll throw in Wiggins instead. I need another pick or a swap that's actually good. How about Topich? Have you seen him? Do you see him in garbage time? I have. Any interest?

No. I mean, for me, New Orleans, no. He's fine. I need to see more of him. I need another pick or a swap. What if Dumars says back, is A.J. Mitchell on the table? That's what I would say back. Three million a year.

I'm interested. How badly do you want to win the title? You got a very brief, you got a window with these three guys. How badly you want to win the title, Sam? A.J. Mitchell, 12th, maybe seven. 17th pick in a contract. Yeah, there's something there. To me, that's the mood because I'm tired.

If I'm them, I'm tired of not quite having enough three-point shooting. You know what I mean? I do. And that's a very intriguing, that's a very intriguing trade. Also, I have to trade for him before somebody else does, like the Celtics. And the thing everyone's around the league, I don't know Troy Weaver at all, but the thing everyone around the league talks to Troy Weaver, talks to him, says, is like, he's always got a guy or two in the draft that he really,

really wants that he just loves and he has to have. We saw it with Queen and maybe if there's somebody in that range, that 12 or 17 helps him get, maybe in a year where they, you know, traded their pick, obviously. McCain,

McCain, I thought, I loved how he played in the playoffs. I'm on the record when Philly drafted McCain. I went nuts. That was my favorite. I watched him in L.A. I've just always liked him.

I think he proved that he's a guy that can be out there for them in a real way. And I wonder with SGA Mitchell and McCain, could you turn one of those last two pieces into something with Murphy? It would be interesting. A couple of things before we go. Just a couple of mailbag questions, basically tied to what we just watched.

Okay. I had a whole thing on the pod the other day about if they had flopping penalties like they used to with Flaygram Fouse. I saw this. Ben from D.C. said, you missed the best part about your flopping point system, the leaderboard. They'd publish the leaderboard every week,

and it would be, like, shameful to be, like, the number one in flop points. It would just be good. So, good one for that. I mean, look, teams do that with their, like, hustle boards, right? And they track it and practice, charges taken, hustle this, hustle that. And, like, if you're at the bottom of the hustle board,

just like, there are your names at the bottom there. There you go. It's like being in the bottom in the barrel speed one in baseball. like Caleb Durbin for the Red Sox. He's like in the bottom 5% of barrel speed. I love all these stats. When you know you're not doing great. Tyler in Portland,

I had a whole thing about all the losers from the Knicks Cab series and he wanted to know why Tom Tibdo wasn't one of the biggest losers out of how this is played out with the Knicks. And he said the second biggest loser were the seven remaining Tibbs stands. I just thought that was really mean. You just want to throw a spotlight on his cruelty? Let's platform his cruelty. Do you feel like Tibbs was a loser for how this is turned out for the Knicks?

Or did circumstance make this a better, circumstance and health make this a better situation this year for the Knicks? If Tibbs is the coach are the Knicks and the finals? I don't think so. I don't think so either. But I also don't think that he's a loser in the situation. I'm sure it eats at his craw a little bit or whatever the right terminology is to see this happen. But I also, I'm sure he's happy for a lot of the people that are, there that were with him.

I'm sure it's an interesting emotional time for him, but I don't consider him a loser. I would flip it around and say, how about Mike Brown is a winner? He did a great job with the Knicks. He played the long game. He pushed all the right buttons. He was a good hire,

even though he was like their 17th choice, apparently, for the job. I like that. At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a nail salon, everything needs to be perfect from tip to toe. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions

for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage. So Clark from Rockford, Illinois, wants to know, did all the negative national discourse

on OKC's flopping, tweak how SGA played a little bit over the course of this series in a negative way. I actually thought a little bit about that because they're so buttoned up of like, well, the noise doesn't affect us. We don't care about the noise.

We don't care about the officials. We don't care about the media. We don't care what's being said. They must be aware on some level. I think the tipping point for me was, what was it? Underdog Sports made the fake operation game. And then they got a cease and desist letter

from Shane's attorneys or something like that. I was like, okay, I wonder if this just is this shrieking noise is in his head at all. But then he goes out and shows out like that in game seven. And I think the really thing that really bothered him was Victor Wenbanyama. I actually don't, I probably don't think the flopping thing bothered him.

Sam from Austin said on the Zach Lowe Show, good podcast after game six. Zach talked about how the spurs play a one-man zone with Wemby roaming the paint while everyone else is locked up man-to-man. Goldsbury asked if Zach had coined that term and encouraged him to take credit for it.

Sam thinks that should be called the unboxing one I do feel like it should have a name, but I was thinking maybe it's like the alien box or the box an alien, something like that. I'll workshop some stuff in my head. Now that I know there's a ground swell of interest. There's a ground swell.

People like the box and one. I, by the way, have always loved the boxing one. I've always loved variations of it. It's the two things I've never understood with basketball or why don't more teams play boxing one and why don't more teams press? Like, if I was OKC, Every time Fox was out, I would have pressed.

Because I think he, Castle, I like, I don't think he's a point guard. I think he was dying to give up the ball. And I don't know why they didn't just go 94 feet with him with Ksson Wallace. I'm just so charmed by this that you, I mean, we're, we're almost 30 years into this. And you're just not giving up the full core press. I love the full core press. You're enamored with like, someone's got to do it. Someone's got to really make it part of there.

I mean, the Pacers kind of came closest for you last year of doing it. The Celtics were doing a little this year, but I thought OKC Wallace was playing 22, 23 minutes a game. And I don't know. If he's out there, I'm like, hey, when you're out there, you're just going 94 feet with everybody. They couldn't really do with Caruso. I'm just going to say this. I mean, if you want to implement these kind of tactics that may or may not work, but that are certainly unconventional, I think you're going to have to suck it up

and try to get the GM job for the Sacramento Kings because your owner is a guy who suggested that his coach play four on five defense and cherry pick and if like if that's available, you can go to the owner and say here in the job interview, here are some crazy things I want to try. You're going to think I'm crazy,

but these are going to work. He's the right audience. Maybe this is your destiny. The vet. You can save the Kings. Our players eight through 12, we're going to press for five minutes a half. Max is going to work.

Gene Renan. is going to be a full core press center for us. We're doing it. Vivek is a gullible guy because Vladay DeBatch looked him in the eye and said, we already have Deeran Fox. Luca is a big market superstar. He's not going to want to stay here. And Vevec's like, you're probably right.

Let's take Marvin Bagley. I sign off. So if he signed off on Marvin Bagley over Luca, I think he would sign off on my press idea. This is, and then you, but then you have carte blanche. What's working against you is you did not play for the Sacramento Kings in the early 2000s.

would have been a big leg up for you in this, in this race, but alas. I would have started smoking again, too. I got a bunch of emails today. Are you a soccer guy or now? I'm ready for the World Cup. I don't know. I watched the final. Do you follow what happened today? I saw the penalty kicks. That's all. So PSG won for the second

year and around. I got a million emails about this about how Mbapapie. Mbapay. I always screwed up. My speech dyslexia. He doesn't play for them anymore. No, but he left.

and they've won two titles in a row and people are wondering. Ewing theory? If they, it's gone further than that. It's like, A, is this the best Ewing theory ever? And B, should we just change the name? We're never changing the name. But I can't think of a better Ewing theory than this of going all in on a guy. The guy leaves and then they immediately win two titles without him when he's considered

to be one of the best players in the world. His first name is, I have to co-sign it. His first name is Killian, right? Killian and Bappen. I feel like that gives us, gives you a lot of pun potential for like you don't even have to name the killer. You have kill sitting there in the first in the first part of his name. But he plays

for Real Madrid. I assume they're good and he's still very good. Like, you know, so how is that? Not as good as you'd think. Okay. I had a mailbag thing about a single shot swinging a series. How few times that's actually happened. Most famously, Ray Allen.

And Joshua M. wanted to know why didn't I mention John Stark's his miss in game six in 1994. And a couple of people have wondered about this. Why doesn't that get better PR as a do or die? We could have won the title of that one in. Listen, I watched a lot of basketball back then. There was no way that John Stark shot was going in.

I never thought it was going in. And by the way, it was hotly contested by Hakeem Elijah on one of the best 15 players of all time. I think there's a fingernail on that shot. and then right of been a fingernail on it. But I just don't think that shot was going in. I know it's like you could say, oh, if he had made that, but I just, I don't know.

So the interesting thing about that shot is they're down to, I believe, the Knicks. So that's a shot. They're playing for the win. But Ewing has always contended, I was rolling to the rim wide open at the nail. And John had a passing lane to me and he didn't make it. And Starks has always said, there was just so little time on the clock that I wasn't sure I had time to pass it.

you would have time to gather it and shoot it. But Ewing, as always said, if he had passed it to me, we're going to overtime. I'm making a little eight-footer. We're going to overtime. Well, he did miss that little eight-footer the next year. Jack from Chicago wants to know if we could see with these new tanking rules, a spite tank of somebody who somebody else has their pick. Like the Nets and like the Nets could be an example, right?

The Rockets control the Nets, 2027 pick. and the Nets can be like, fuck it. We don't care for one of the worst three teams. We don't even have our pick. How about we relegate you? Yeah. About we relegate you? Watch this, Rockets.

And they just play five point cards for the last 10 games of this season. And it's like Sover's worst thing. I didn't think of that. Do you think of that variable? Yeah, it's come up. I've seen people talk about it is one of the potential ripple effects of this sweeping change that is everyone is still trying to grapple with, including what they've done to the second round,

which I did not even realize was in the proposal until. That was like they had a couple shots and just got drunk. And they were like, wait, did we change a second round last night too? I don't remember. I've passed out. We can do anything. Once they've gone for this, we can do anything. How about we make the second round of like, we could do anything we want?

Because there's some drafts where if you have 16 and 31, it's almost better than having like six, right? Those deeper drafts where after the top five, you don't even, you just want to like throw darts against the dartboard. Rob H had another one on this. Would this weird new rule lead to somebody trying to accumulate a bunch of picks in one draft to have the most possibilities basically stack a draft? Like when Houston and Brooklyn made that weird trade, when Brooklyn wanted their picks back and they did. And could we see something like that where,

I don't know, the Spurs have a 29 pick, but they have three 28 picks. And they're like, you know what? Let's trade our 29 pick for another 28 pick and try to have four of these. Sure, why not? I don't know. I mean, no one knows yet. But yeah, that's not a bad theory.

I like that. It could be weird. Yeah. The biggest question I've gotten over and over again is, why would I want to be the playing 10th, the 10 seed trying to win two playing games so I can get destroyed by San Antonio next year? Why wouldn't I want to actually could this lead to high? higher level tanking, basically.

We're like, yeah, I don't, I don't want to be the 10th seed. I don't, I think, I mean, there's two directions that flows in, right? There's the team that's 12th and is four games out of the 10th seed. And do they go all out to try to get it? I could see that team currently already. I could see that team under any rule system you have having some thoughts, having some thoughts about it. But the other be irresponsible.

The other one. where I'm eighth and I'm like I'd really like to be 11th. I just can't see a team doing that to its fans, especially since a lot of the teams in that spot are younger teams who really I think could use and value the experience. And like, look, we saw Orlando get in. We've seen playing teams have real success and get to the finals. And in Miami and Orlando took Detroit to seven.

Like, you know, counter. Golden State. Do they give a shit about March and April after Jimmy Butler's injury? If they have this new lottery system in place, I don't think they do. I think they're saying Curry's fine. You're sitting out. Don't try to come back. We're going for it next year.

We just lost our second best player. And then you're just trying to get in that 4 to 10 range. I guess. But they have Steph Curry. And they've always been honorable without having Steph Curry on their team, even this year. And they gave you, I think maybe your favorite moment of top five moment for you of this NBA season was that Warriors Clippers playing game. Top three easily. You were so delighted.

Leo from Indianapolis wants to know of Halliburton doesn't tear his Achilles in game seven and then they win the best finals of all time. What are the rest of the decade look like for the Pacers? Would it have been a fluke or would have just kept going? So no Haliburton injury. And they win the title? They win the title. They lose Turner. Is it just like a one-year fluke like Leicester City basically in the Premier League?

I don't think you lose Turner if you win a title. You think they wanted to keep Turner at that price? I think if Halliburton's healthy and you win this idol. Yeah. I mean, I think that one of the reasons they punted on Turner was next year is a loss for us anyway. It might as well just save some money. Aliburton's hurt.

He's out for the year. It's an underrated. What if? I just think as a fan, I still and will forever feel just so robbed of what that game was shaping up to be. Yeah, even what we had tonight could have been at that level. John and did you see Shay, by the way, said before this game today, it was the biggest game of his career?

I did. You played in a finals game seven. How was that? You're not ever playing in a bigger game. But I wonder if he just in his memory now, that game, even like that game is so weird to look back on. Like I wonder if he can even conjure what it felt like before Tyrese Halliburton tore his Achilles.

If he could even bring himself back to what the stakes were. Because then that injury happens and it's like, I just felt like I was in a haze for three hours and not even paying attention to the game because you knew what was going to happen. I mean, that's almost a good one to end on. But I am going to end on this. Okay.

Mason from Seattle. Sent this before Game 7. I feel the exact same way about AI as I do about Wembe. He's a foreign unknown technology that's arrived to dominate our world for the future. There's nothing any of us can do about it. I felt genuine dread after watching game one. The same dread I feel when I think about

how AI is eventually going to take my job in a year. That's pretty dark. But I just want, the only reason I wanted to mention that email is that's how astonishing this postseason has been, that we have seemingly normal people sending mailbag emails comparing Wembe to the most generation changing technology we've created since the internet. I wish I could remember who it was, who summed it up. I don't even think. like that's a dark, that's a dark version of a thought pattern that I don't think is like fringe, fringe. I think it was Harrison Feigen, who's a Lakers blogger, but I might be miscrediting somebody. After game one, somebody tweeted, Wembe is the first player I've ever watched in my life

where I thought, maybe they might actually have to change the rules for this guy. And I think that, Like that tweet like got some traction because I do think you watch it and you're like, is this a wilt thing where like fundamental things about the geometry of the court? No more offensive goaltending. Are you going to have to change? Like I, because when in his best games where it just feels so hopeless to ever do anything near the basket, I think those thoughts could reasonably like creep into your mind. I love how much he cares.

I love how he reacted after the game. We'll see how he reacts if they actually win the final. But the mountain that they climb. And, you know, the more we're talking and think about it, you're OKC. You have that semi-magical year last year. But the game seven was pretty weird with the Haliburton injury. Like, it was just a weird way to win the title, but you're taking any tidy you get. But now you think they start out the way they did this year.

And it's like, holy shit. Oh, my God. What are we going to do? And now the, oh, my God, what are we going to do, has just shifted to Wemby. And away from OKC, which to me. me is the most, it's even more stunning than San Antonio being in the finals, that the, what are we going to do has just shifted teams in real time. And I think the other 28 teams are still like, what are we going to do about OK, see when

they get healthy and they make whatever moves they're going to make? And I think that's the ultimate complementers. These two teams are going to be staring at each other one way or another. And they're the ultimate measuring stick. And I think that's why, one of the reasons why, if you want to psychoanalyze it, why Shea would call that the biggest game of his career, why Wemby would we, effort because they both have so much respect for the other team that they know what the challenge is. Yeah. Well, there's four guys in this draft that levitate above everybody else. The order has

been in great debate. There's a chance Peterson could get to four. As crazy as that sounds. I know you've been doing some stealth YouTube scouting. How are we talking about the draft? Where are you going with this? Because I wonder like with Chicago at four would OKC, would that be the power move that we talked about earlier. Like, what would they do move? Maybe they just go all in and try to get one of those four guys. If I'm a team, try to keep, keep their nucleus in place. I've done my, I've done my just enough to be dangerous, YouTubeing of those four guys. Yeah. If I'm Chicago, I'm just not even picking up the calls. I mean, you got to really do some crazy ass stuff to make me just not be psyched to take whichever one of the four falls into my lap. But that could be,

that's the opportunity for OKC though, to be like, we're overwhelming you with a, stupid offer. But I'm not even know. You hear those stories about when people don't want to leave their house and somebody knocks in their door and's like, I want to buy your house. It's not for sale. Here's the offer. And like, whoa, I guess I'm moving.

I mean, that would be. The overwhelming thing is like I got, they have some Denver swaps, a clippers pick, a clippers swap their own picks. Like they could throw 10 first round picks at me. If I add them all up, are they as valuable as one of these four guys in the draft? What if I put a chat in the table? I just want to start over, man. Just let me start over.

I think you're talking to it. Benny the Bull just wants to start over. I think you've talked to me into it for Chicago, but also for OKC. Okay. I think the move is deep breath. That San Antonio team is awesome. That's going to be the team we battle for the rest of the decade. And I just, I guess if you offer me 10 first round picks in Chet Homegren,

I guess I just have to do it. I mean, I don't know. But then if you're Oklahoma City, you're out. That's it. everything for a rookie. You know what the example is? It's when, uh, Kauai want to play with Paul George. Right. Ironically, and what did Presti do? He said, well, I don't want to trade Paul George. And they're like, what about how, what would it take to trade him? He's like, uh, four first, three swaps, and then you have to give me SGA. And they're like, well, we can't give you SGA.

And it's like, well, that's what it would take. And he just kind of ground them down. Maybe that's what one of these teams in the top four would have to do. They also got to figure out what Wallace is worth is the other thing, which we didn't talk about. Do you do an extension with him or roll the dice with him as heading toward a restricted? What's his price? Is he like in the 25 million range, probably, right? Yeah, I think you're 20 to 25. If you're his agent, you're at the very least throwing around like, you know, Christian Brown,

Jalen Suggs type. No, you're mailing the Christian Brown contract to them. Well, no, I'm like, this guy's, what are, Mr. Brown got, our guy's better than this guy. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I'll leave you with this. Why does Denver have to trade anybody to sign Peyton Watson? Fuck off.

You have Yolkich on your team, dickheads. Pay everybody. Clip this out. Denver fans. Clip this out. Cronkey's got a kajillion dollars. Just pay Peyton Watson and keep everyone else in your team because your owner's super rich.

How much did Arsenal make just for making the Champions League final? Isn't there, that must make gargantuan amounts? yeah definitely although they own Arsenal right yeah Joker was there supporting Arsenal yeah with at least one of his brother

all right Zach Lowe what's your podcast schedule this week I think we are going to record Monday night so I'm going to San Antonio for game one of the finals at least and flying Monday Tuesday there's going to be

some interesting podcast stuff happening that the NBA is organizing that I don't know if I should really say anything but now I've said something but so I don't know how that's going to work exactly. So I'm going to do a traditional episode where I just do a deep dive finals preview.

I've watched my film. I've got my notes. I'm ready to go. I'm going to make my pick. So I don't come out either Monday night or overnight into Tuesday morning like usual. And they'll have some fun in San Antonio. Hopefully see a great game. And hopefully we get a great finals.

And boy, the Knicks and the Spurs. Woo. All right. So I'm going to be, I'm coming back with my pot on Tuesday. We have tomorrow, rewatchable. It usually runs Monday night. We are running it tomorrow. because I'm not going to have my podcast because we did this.

And we did 2001 Space Odyssey. And it's one of the best episodes we've ever done without spoiling what happens. I would highly encourage people to check this one out. Zach Lowe, I don't know what I'm going to see you again because this final schedule is weird. But I'll see you after one of these games. Yeah. This is like, I'll see you after probably game three. But we'll talk about it this week.

Say it travels in San Antonio. You won't see me after game six in New York City. That's the one thing I can guarantee. I don't know what's going to say goodbye to you before game six in New York City in case that's the last time. Thanks to Gahow and Eduardo and Chris and everybody else at the ringer. And I will see you on this feed on Tuesday. Thanks. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in president DC, Kentucky or Wyoming.

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