The Bill Simmons Podcast - England Survives, the Jaylen Trade Fallout, and an All-NBA Mailbag With Zach Lowe

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe react to England holding on to defeat Mexico 3-2 in the World Cup's Round of 16. Then, they reflect on the Jaylen Brown trade before diving into some mailbag questions. (0:00) Intro (1:15) England defeats Mexico 3-2 in the World Cup (19:43) Reflecting on the Jaylen Brown trade (34:06) Mailbag questions Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Zach Lowe Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Eduardo Ocampo, and Chris Wohlers Brought to you by PayPal. Learn more at paypal.com As the Official Beer Sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, Michelob ULTRA away $1million in FIFA World Cup tickets and prizes. https://www.michelobultra.com/superioraccess/FIFAWORLDCUP26 MICHELOB ULTRA® FIFA® WORLD CUP 26TM SUPERIOR ACCESS. No Purchase Necessary. Open to US residents 21+. Begins on 12/1/25 and ends on 7/31/26. Multiple entry periods. Visit https://www.michelobultra.com/superioraccess/FIFAWORLDCUP26 for free entry, entry deadlines, and Official Rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Download the PayPal app today. Save those offers. Start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See PayPal.com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers, terms, and conditions. All right, it's the Bill Simmons podcast. We are recording it is 822 Pacific Time. Zach Lowe, kind enough to stay up late.

We thought we were going to be on Netflix doing a lot. but we had some tech issues, but we're going to get the pod going. I wanted to mention new rewatchable's coming tomorrow. Ali, we're doing, from Hell Month is over. It ended on July 1st with the Jalen Brown trade. Zach Lowe has, how many podcasts you're doing this week, at least two? I don't know. Yeah, two.

Two is the floor for this time of year. Overrunners, one and a half? Okay. Yeah. We're going to do a bunch of basketball stuff in a second, but we just watched England, Mexico. The World Cup. there's a weightiness.

There's just nothing like it. I was trying to think of other games that feel this way, and like the Super Bowl can't feel this way because it's a neutral location. Basketball, we can get like 40% to where we got to tonight, but there's something different about countries, a place like Azteca, which I've been to, which I'll talk to in a second.

But there's just nothing else like this, right? Every four years, the pressure, if you blow it, you don't come back now until 2030. I just, I'm kind of drained after that game and I didn't really care who won. I'm drained after every game. There is nothing like it. It's the every four years thing. So any missed opportunity, it feels like you've missed the opportunity of a lifetime that

you'll never get back again. It's that every game is like there's no game. No, there's no like Mexico can make adjustments for game two against England tomorrow. They're just out. It's over. And even in group, even in group play, if you're in a hard group, Like, it's hard to just get out of your group. They aren't elimination games, but they start to feel like elimination games really, really fast.

And it's just, it's too much, man. It's too much. And I don't understand enough for the rules, but that's near here and over there. It was one of the most bonkers games ever where we had, you know, England goes up to nothing in five seconds. Then all of a sudden, we get a penalty kick. We get another penalty kick. Then all of a sudden, England's playing a man down forever. and Mexico is just doing cross after cross, after cross, after cross.

And guy, and every time you're just having a heart attack, I went to Esteka in 2009, I wrote a column about it. I went for a USA-Mexico qualifier. And it was one of the great sports experiences I've ever had. The place is you can't even describe it. You can't feel more unsafe. It's like kind of designed, it's designed to make everybody feel unsafe who isn't on Mexico's side.

It's what they do. And it's really close to the field. They're throwing stuff at the players in the corner kicks. And it's just getting in and out. You're nervous. And you're always wondering, like, what's the mood going to be if this is a terrible loss for Mexico? How do we get out here?

And I'm sure that's what it was like. You're watching England at the end. They had the one section. They're singing Wonderwall, which was really cool. And then it's like, okay, now you guys have to get out of here. And these fans are mad, and you've just ruined the next four years of sports for them. And you're not well-discized walking the streets of Mexico City after the game. You're not.

You could, that first goal that England scored, this is the same sound that when I was there, America scored the first goal and lost 2-1. They scored the first goal. And it was like, you know, and it's like a mute button for a crowd where it's like, and it's like, what happened? Where'd all the sound go? It's gone. That was one of those.

And then conversely, when they score, it's like the loudest, most joy. thing ever. But I thought it was an incredible win for England. To go in that place, I don't think Mexico had lost like kind of a real international game in 13 years. England's probably the best team they played over that last 13 years. But the stakes, I was trying to think like, if basketball worked this way, so this would basically be the Indiana Pacers Stadium, right, if we made it even closer to the court. And then, And Indiana had, I don't know, a thousand times as many people. And all they cared about was basketball.

And then the weight of the, basically the playoffs or every 40. I didn't even know how to do the formula in my head. But that's the only thing I could think of. Because that Konseko Fieldhouse is the only basketball arena. I felt that kind of reminded me of Azteca. Well, did you hear the stuff? I mean, I think they were mentioning this on the broadcast, how the Mexico City fans found what hotel England was staying at

and we're like lighting fireworks. And spraying the buses on the way with like, I don't know if it was shaving cream. This is like old school try to call the players hotel room at four in the morning and figure out what their pseudonym is. This is like old school fan stuff. It's great. Home soil really seems to be in a lot in soccer is it's kind of dying in the NBA as a huge

advantage. But yeah, look, I know nothing. I'm just an idiot American soccer fan who like checks in every once in a while. I just like England, that seemed like a really rugged win for England in that stadium, down a guy. And like Mexico had the ball the entire last 25 minutes of the game, but they didn't get like sensational chance after sensational chance. Their best chances were in the first half in Pickford, who my one of my hot World Cup takes is Pickford is now the three consecutive World Cup winner of most punchable face in the World Cup. But man, he showed up huge, man, like some truly amazing saves. but I still,

he still has a very punchable face. I'm sure he would beat me up, but it's very punchable. And Bellingham was amazing. Oh, my God. What an athlete. Because Keynes the quote unquote signature star of the team. And then Bellingham is kind of,

I'm trying to think of a basketball analogy of this. Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum in the 2024 playoffs. Oh, boy. Too soon. Yeah. Too soon. Yeah. So we have America tomorrow and CR.

Dubundo and I are going to be going live after that game. And America has a chance to go to the final eight. Which feels like, feels pretty significant. What's the first World Cup you remember? Oh, I mean, I remember 94 basically just because it was the one that was in the state. It was the formative one. It was such a big deal. I was in high school.

And I was like the classic, dumb American. I had a couple friends who played soccer and they were like trying to sell me on what a big deal this was and what a great sport it was. And I was like just the classic guy. And my dad still is this guy. It was like every game is zero zero. It's so boring. One one, nil.

It was like, I was like totally ignorant, close minded. And it turns out it's just wildly exciting to the point of being like impossible for me to watch when I actually care about the game. But I remember Carlos Valderrama at the Colombian team, the tragedy afterwards. Roberto Baggio,

I think, was that the one where Baggio misses a penalty kick at the end of that one. So that was the first one where it was like really truly in my. my life. That was the one where it felt like soccer had a chance to get real momentum in America. And then we just kept saying that for the next, I don't know, 30, 35, 40 years. But now, I think there's a variety of reasons for it. But I think the main reason, other than the games, have been really entertaining. There's also big stars in the different countries that you want to see. But it's just having the games lined up to an American TV schedule has been great. And even

like during 4th of July weekend just to know that these games are coming on basically that basically everybody's planning their stuff for the weekend or whatever around these games and even countries that you didn't even know who's on and then you have like holland on on norway who is you know one of the best players in the world that's not like you know but like my wife doesn't know who that is she doesn't watch man city so then you know people like that it's just it just feels like everybody's watching this. I know of him because all my dad friends are big Premier League fans and they've tried to get me to become a Premier League fan.

I'm just like, I'm like you when you try to pick Tottenham. I'm like, I can't, I'm 40 years old. I can't like pick a team and pretend like I care about this team out of nowhere. I can't do it. So I don't, but I know of him, but this is my first time really watching him play. The guy's just like, I'm just, I just watch him. And he's just like walking around, standing around, walking around. turns over here, turns out, then the ball comes and he scores.

It's like this guy's just a machine. He's built to score goals. He's amazing. He's like a shark in the water. He just kind of swims around and waits, waits for like somebody's arm to fall in the water. I am. I would like to announce I am now throwing my allegiance with Croatia out,

and we will address this topic soon. I am now throwing my allegiance behind Norway for the rest of the, for the rest of the tournament. The full force of the low family household is behind Norway. Did that lady, the gif of that lady in the Croatian jersey screaming, fuck you at the top of her lungs? Did that sum up the entire low family's feelings on the game? My wife was at the game and she had an absolutely hellish travel story to get to the game

and they made it 15 minutes before kickoff. But I just, look, explain it to me. Can someone explain it to me? Explain it to me. I don't understand it. It may be, maybe hit a hair follicle. and there was this minor spike on the fucking VAR chip, the chip that's in the ball.

But we can't really say if the spike happened at the exact time, it hit the guy's hair follicle. And if it didn't hit the hair follicle, it's a good goal. You robbed us of, I don't know soccer well enough to say this, well I'm saying it. The greatest, most dramatic equalizing goal, like ever,

basically with one second left in the game. We never know how much time is it left in the game. I don't know how soccer hasn't finished this. I think the game's over now. But it was basically the end of the game. They tie the game or just give us extra time. Who wants to? I tell you, between the NBA and this, I am getting closer and closer to just,

let's just have no more replay. Let's just not, let's just live with the results on the field because this all, this stuff is all nonsense. All the reviews are endless. They go to the VAR or the nerds are in the VAR. A little spike, a little shark fin spike on the graph. Croatia is out of the World Cup. We don't have another game.

We're done. We're out. I have some other hot. takes about the World Cup. That was a really good rant. I here's my what if we just went replay across all sports no slow-mo? Yeah. Like I sure you just get to watch it in real speed three times and then make a decision and let's keep on. I don't want to watch NBA reps huddle up anymore. I'm done. I'm done. It's great. Did you get your to Zach Zarba? You're so handsome. You get your TV time and Billy Kennedy with your facial expressions. It's over. It's over. It jumped the shark. You're done.

So you're out on Var too? Var sucks. I don't know what. Var to throw Var into the fucking ocean. I light VAR on fire. I just, I hate all the people who do the bar. I have two other World Cup takes that I have to get off.

Can I follow up on your var and then we go to your takes? Yeah, sure. I just feel like the off sides, it shouldn't be like, oh, you were fingernail off sides. No, I, like, Rinaldo had a goal. It should just be distinct off sides. Rinaldo had a goal called back against, Carvisia had two goals called back on offside. that were whatever. And Rinaldo had one.

Rinaldo's goals should have counted. It's all stupid. The whole thing is stupid. What are your other two takes? All right, number one, and this I transpose onto other international competitions. And I understand why it is, but I don't think the host nation

should get tier one status in the World Cup. So like Canada, US, and Mexico are treated like the top eight teams in the world when it comes to formatting the group. Same thing with the Olympics in basketball. Only 12 teams, make it. I don't think the host nation should automatically get in. Like, remember when England was in when London, it was like, what do we do? And my other, I don't know, the formula, some will have to

research it. I think they should recede the World Cup after the group stages because it's just a random who plays who's second place here and you have like heavyweight clashes. And then you have Argentina who could like walk into the semifinals because of how the draw broke for them. And I will admit, Croatia benefited from this greatly in 2018 when their entire side of the bracket. And they're entire side of the bracket after the group stage just was like a wasteland of teams like all the best teams were out and they just walked into the finals or the semifinals anyway those are my two takes so would you do the receding for basketball in the playoffs yeah because the reason they don't do this is because the schedule then everybody has to wait for the end of every round to keep going with the next round

i just feel like it's it's less of a problem because of seven game series and you know you're already down to four teams in each conference like what are the chances it's going to be that much of a crime But that is a cousin of my and your, I think, too, the number one seed should be able to pick its first round opponent, which I do support in the NBA. In football, they reseed after every round, which I like. And when it's a winner take all one game, it feels like the reseed should be a little bit more advantage for the teams that have earned some sort of seed privilege. I'm willing to admit that this is probably enraging actual soccer fans who have done poured their life. work into figuring this out and why this is just me. I'm just, I'm just, this is how I feel. I'm emotional. I'm still, it's three days later. I'm still angry. I will be cheering for Spain tomorrow

out of spite for Portugal. That's just how I'm going to, you're going to spite cheer? I realize that. Yeah. That's really the last level. Yeah, I got, I actually got a couple different emails about the same topic about levels of losing with Croatia. Oh, great. But then, even worse was the Iran where they had it and then it got called back but then they were still alive and then had that stupid game where the teams had basically agree to have a tie and then somebody scored so then Iran was like all of a sudden they had been given a reprieve but then the other team scored and they got kicked in the nuts again which people are saying that's like basically hasn't happened before but I do think the uh the we scored the game tie and goal with like

under a minute left in a World Cup game and then it got reviewed and became off sides is some sort of level of losing of its own. Maybe football would be the only like if you had a touchdown and then it turned out the guy was on the line.

Durant, I guess with the toe on the line would be the equivalent of the Croissia goal. But we know his toe was on the line. I know. But in the moment, if you were just watching it, you thought it was a three. He didn't realize his toe was on the line. But the Croatia thing, then you just lost. It was tough. It was tough.

You know, it was tough. I won't elaborate too much more. That was a tough one. Well, I've loved the World Cup. I've been betting on it. I feel like I'm getting good at betting on it. Knock on wood. Oh, boy.

That is famous last words. I had Norway and I had Norway part laid with England today. I'm like on a heater. My God. Yeah. I like have opinions. I watch things. I'm like, I don't know.

Holland's too big for. This is going to get clipped. badly when you lose your next four bets in a row. Oh, I'm definitely going to lose. Well, I had another parlay with, I had Norway, England, with Spain tomorrow, and the U.S. tomorrow. It was like 23 to 1. So.

Seems good. That seems like a good one, especially since, you know, there was some intervention that took place to overturn a red card, which no one had thought was really a thing that could ever happen, but it has happened. Yeah, we had some sort of legislation with the president of. I got involved. I got a bunch of, I got a bunch of emails about it in the last 24 hours about this would be kind of what the sports star would do. If we did have a sportsar, like you'd try to intervene and bully them into repealing the red card for Valgan. I guess my thing with the

cards is, I don't think it should be a red card after review, like what happened. Because they, like, to me, red card is like intent. Or it's like when you're breaking a clear soccer role. Like whatever he did, Balgan on that play, to me, that's not. Oh, you're out for half this game and then all of the next game because you accidentally stepped on somebody's ankle. It feels like they need a third card. It's like a pink card where you get red carded. You're out for the game, but you get to come back the next game.

I was wondering if FIFA could overturn Draymond not playing in game five of the 2016 finals. If we could just go backwards now. Well, where was the Croatian government at the end of that game? I wanted, I remember Crow cop, the MMA fighter? What I want is send him into VAR and they cut to the Var guys. and he's just beating the shit out of all of them, like Jason Bourne, throwing him against the wall. There's no Vard.

Goal counts. Where were we on this? Well, I'm sorry about Croatia. That's enough soccer talk for us. CR and Dubundo and I are coming on right after the American game tomorrow. Valgaan's back. We have our striker.

I thought he was the best player we had. We're going to take a break. Lots of 72 hours after one of the strangest trade in the history of the league. I have a nice mailbag. I only prepped you for one question, and we're going to go right after this. This episode is brought to you by Mikalob Ultra.

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2025 ends on July 31st, 2026, multiple entry periods. Visit www. W.michelobulcher.com slash superior access slash FIFA World Cup 26 for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes, and details. All right. So it's been four days since one of the weirdest trades in the history of the National Basketball Association. You talk to people. There's texting. You text with people. Maybe you send a couple emails back and forth with people. You talk on the phone with people. Does anyone know anything?

What are people saying? What is the, what is the consensus around the league for, wow, why did Boston do this? The consensus is you can't really find anyone who thinks it was a good trade for Boston, first of all. Second of all, the consensus is it must have just been, the bridge must have been burned to the point of no return and the Celtics just wanted out of the Jalen Brown business for reasons that we may not fully understand, but may one day fully understand because this return is, I think, surprisingly low, even if people in the league sort of had a conception that

Jalen Brown's trade value was not going to match his sort of all, first team, second team this year, all NBA reputation, sixth in MVP voting, all that. Mostly, I think, because of his salary, more than any analytics or this and that, it's the salary and his sort of just like standing in the league. But even so, there was just surprised that they chose to make this deal. Now there's basically an agreement that it's not as if this deal was going to ever go away. Like the Sixers would do this deal in September and October and August. So why did they feel pressure to do it now?

And you can find people who will caution that in a year, a year and a half, this deal will look less bad for Boston than it does today. And it probably will. But you can't really find any fans of it. Do you want to know what day I landed on was Paul George a better trade asset than maybe all of us realized right now this second and it was it was this morning in the shower i was thinking about it it's like well paul george was really good in that playoff series went back looked at his stats he played five quipper seasons 23 six and five for the five quipper seasons 39% from three three point four threes a game jack three all-star teams the two philly seasons were not as good

some issues some injuries there's the 25 game drug suspension i will say, though, last 10 games after he came back, 21 a game, 42% from 3. And the playoffs, he was 60 in a game, 49% from 3. I went back and looked at my notes from after game 6 and then after game 7. And I repeatedly wrote down, Paul George was the best forward of the series. And he has actually revived his trade value to the point that maybe they can get rid of him. I did not think they would get rid of him for Jalen Brown. But from where we were with him in March to now, is it possible that they really like Paul George

just as a player for their team? Because I think it is. And by the way, I don't agree with this opinion. I'm not saying they're right. I was going to say that was one of the sadder one-minute segments in the history of the Bill Simmons podcast and its predecessor. It made me sad. I just felt I agree.

I didn't know how to react to. it. Well, when you're looking for answers, Zach, you look for answers. You turn over every stone. I could tell your heart wasn't in it. I mean, you were giving it an honest try. I respect it, but your heart wasn't in it. It was not. I tried. I really tried. I don't think that the Celtics believe that Paul George is wildly underrated, a diamond in the rough, ready to average 22 points a game again next season. I think they know exactly who Paul George is. They don't have, they think he's going to be a nice, you know, third, fourth option, three-point shooter, good defender, all of that. They think he fits into how Missoula wants to play.

They'll win a lot of regular season games. I said even in my pessimistic trade reaction, this team is a regular season, wins machine. I think they're going to win 50 games and be in contention. I mean, you can't just put almost anyone other than the very, very best teams in the East, like no-brainer, lock top six. They're counting a lot on Mitchell Robinson to change their offensive rebounding and shot profile at the rim because they lost some rim pressure in the, Jalen Brown, Paul George, exchange, and rim pressure was all Brad Stevens talked about in that post-mortem,

and they lost some in that. And now they have a guy who doesn't shoot free throws? And Mitchell Robinson's injured all the time, too. And so I, but I don't, to answer your question, I don't think the Celtics are like, we've been secretly coveting Paul George. They know exactly what he is. I think this is just more about the time, whether it, whether it is a overreaction to the Philly series going bad, whether it's a understanding that,

putting Jalen Brown back into a 1B role was going to cause all sorts of issues, whether it's, we've always thought he was a little overrated and compared to his salary, compared to his salary to be clear. And this is the time to act with three years left on the deal. It might be all those, but I don't think it's like we, we love Paul George like we did 10 years ago when we tried to trade for him. I agree. I do wonder, though, if they're thinking was you put Tatum and all the Brown,

minutes from last year with the same kind of offensive responsibility. And then you shift Paul George into this supplemental role that they just obviously decided Jalen Brown was never going to want to play, that they talked themselves into will actually still be really good. Because the weirdest thing to me is this is the opposite of a new owner syndrome trade. Right? Usually the new owner is trading Paul George in five first round picks for Jalen Brown. And instead we have the owner going the other way. Well, and not only that, the same ownership group shed all the salary

with Drew Holiday and Porzingis and on and on. Like, Dave, Bill Chisholm and his group have done nothing but willingly kind of eat a little, you know what, and big time on this trade. Well, and I saw,

when I did my thing with Kirk and CR a day after the trade, and I felt, I had landed on, this is part one of a part two, and they're going to use this, Paul George, and the picks they got,

more picks, and make a play for the trade, Murphy, Jordan Poole type contract, where they just, they get the asset. And in a year from now, they'll have way more flexibility. That did not happen either. Well, not yet. Starting to come to grips with Paul George, maybe being in a Celtic uniform, which is going to be weird.

And I said this when I did the pod the other day, that there's real anger about this trade in Boston. And it's something, this has been a feel-good, lovable Celtics run, really since the year after they traded PG and KG, P.P. and KG to Brooklyn. It's always been an overachieving love it. The really, the only unhappy team was that 2019 second Kairi season team. But there hasn't been anger toward the front office or the ownership, really ever. Really going back to, I think the last time was maybe when they traded Antoine Walker. People were mad that they traded Antoine Walker.

I did have a high level front office person at another team. We were just chatting today about stuff going on in the league. And he said, you know, it speaks to how solid the Celtics front office reputation is and how Brad Stevens' reputation is that they're not getting even more shit and more anger for this trade because there's only three or four front offices who could do this trade and not get just immediate cataclysmic blowback that they have enough benefit of the doubt, even from their angry fans, that it's not like a coup. and this is one of them.

But yeah, it's, I think, I think the other thing about doing it this early is, it's going to be a long time before the Celtics start winning basketball games again. And if this were like in September and you could just say, hey, look, preseason's coming, training camps come and just watch. We're going to be, you know, 15 and 8 right out of the gate. We'll be solid, 15 and 5, whatever. And like now, now they, we have the absolute full off season for people to be angry about this. Like when Minnesota traded towns, that was really close to the start of the season.

We're just right into it with preseason games and everything else. I'll never understand it. And I know you and I both talked separately on our podcast about this whole advanced metrics argument that has now sprung. And this is now going to be the thing that we talk about all season, I guess. And people have just dug into their sides. And it honestly mirrors real life. This is just one, this has become one of those things that's like politics where it's like,

I stand here. This is my opinion. I'm just going to be here. And somebody else says, I'm over here. This is what I think. Well, some of the analytics stuff is, I mean, I don't want to do the whole thing on here, but some of like the anonymous, you know,

the anonymous source who thinks with whatever team that thinks he's not one of the 50 best players in the league or the anonymous source who thinks he's not a top seven player on a whatever typical NBA team. It's just crazy. And I have always thought that he's probably a hair overrated, but it doesn't really matter. Like the most important reason this trade happened, personally, it could be the 1A, 1B thing with Tatum. But to me, it still comes down to 57,000, 62 million, 66 million. And where the analytics come in is whatever, like the on-off stuff throw it out.

Like just whatever the, like all the analytics together, if he's making $66 million and he's, let's give a realistic, pessimistic ranking, a realistic skeptical ranking of Jalen Brown. If he's making $66 million and he's the 18th best player in the NBA, that's a problem. That's like hard to build around when you have another guy making even more money than that. I'm just throwing that ranking out there. Like if I were an analytics guy who's done all the eye test stuff and seen all. all the stuff that Jalen Brown did to win finals MVP, carry the Celtics last year, all of that.

So I have that infused with my analytic stuff that's a little more skeptical. And it washes out to like 18th best player in the NBA at that salary. I think that's really just what it comes down to more than anything else. And I wonder if that's where we're going with the league. One of the things that, so obviously every single person in my life has asked me about this.

One of the things that I thought was interesting that didn't get enough attention was the salary cap kind of went backwards. and under under its projection by a little a little tiny bit. Yeah, but some, but there's been years where we're like, whoa, we're way over this year. And I wonder if there's a fear with the local TV revenue just in general

that they were looking at two years from now like, wow, we might get really screwed with two of these guys. So it's that basically my, the big picture outside of Boston I'm wondering is, are more teams going to be thinking this way? Is this driving some of the Pistons, Duren stuff, which, by the way, the Dern thing, that was another casualty of the CBA thing,

where they can offer him $100 million more than anybody else, but why would they? Why am I just going to give you $100 million more than your net worth if you just tested it elsewhere? So I don't, it feels like that, and I have a couple of questions about this that I don't want to step on, but it feels like we're headed toward a really strange salary cap era for the league that the only time I can, in recent history, at least since I've known you, and maybe we didn't even know each other than, but it was like, the end of the 2000s, specifically with the Harding Trade,

which we've talked about over and over again, where there was a moment where team started choosing salary decisions over basketball decisions. And I think that's the number one reason this trade happened. Number two is that all the stuff that happened from the moment the season ended all the way to last week, I think put a bad taste in their mouth and they decided to move on. Yeah, there was a time during that era where it sounds quaint to say it now. and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, that the cap stayed flat basically for like three or four years in a row,

and it was flat at like $58 million. Like that was the salary cap. And so that is, and I have had a couple of agents sort of just venting to me in the last week that called the second apron, this is the agents speaking, but called the second apron, whatever it is, teams are treating it like more or less a hard cap.

And they're going to continue to treat it even like what James Dolan did and like letting Mitchell Robinson go and replacing him with an inferior version. and Andre Drummond, a championship team willingly doing that. But he should have done that, though. I'm not defending Dolan, but we've seen teams do that. We saw the Celtics do that with James Posey in 2008, where if you're not one of the best five guys, and you're going to bring all these penalties and all these other things with me,

I don't think it's defensible. You have to figure out how to patch those stats together. I mean, the Mitchell Robinson minutes are better than the Andre Drummond minutes are going to be. And like you're going to feel, Andre Drummond is almost as good have been offensive rebounder, but not quite. Defensively, it's a huge downgrade.

The corner three thing is like actually kind of interesting. And I'm curious to see if Mike Brown leans into that, like Nick Nursed it. That's like a little interesting wrinkle. But, I mean, look, I'm just saying what I'm hearing from agents about the hard cap and the second apron. And the nuggets are going to be one of the test cases. I do have to give you your praise because the day,

Jaylon Brown got traded, even before and after I did my podcast, I had several executives around the league reach out to me. Is Bill okay? Like, where is Bill? And there were a couple I trusted enough to tell them where you were, but I said, I can't, I can't text it. It's too good. You have, you want to know you have to call me. And their reactions were absolutely riotous. Like, they just, like, I've never heard some of these men, grizzled veteran men, laugh with this level of glee. I'll never have another experience like that in my life. Coming out of anesthesia and having my wife break the trade to me and just not being able to process it. I would have had 100 guesses for it.

Anyway, all right, we got great mail-back questions. Let's go. And we can cover some of this jail and stuff in there. Joe Madden says, Dear BS, after watching the Celtics, cut off a lot of limb with a pocket knife with the Jalen Brown trade. Wow. You should add one, 127 hours to From Hell Month on the rewatchables.

I mean, that is probably the movie you would say for this Jaywin thing. We went from we went from the guy who was, is it going to be fifth or sixth an MVP to whoa, it leaked out that we offered him for Yannis to fire sale in the span of two weeks.

Clancy from Connecticut wants to know, would you rather Boston traded Jalen Brown a year ago last summer and tanked for a chance at DeBanza Peterson, Booser, Wilson in the draft? That's the great what if right there, one of many, but that's a great one. So I went to, I saw their first win of the season, I think.

They were 0 and 3, and then they beat Washington to go 1 in 3, I want to say. And Washington was terrible in Boston. And I was watching that Celtic lineup. And I think I did a pod the next time. I was like, I think they should throw the season away. I don't see it. Like they don't have enough turned out.

They go on this heater. They win 56 games. But when you think like round one loss versus what they get for Jalen and how this season played out, I just don't know what they would have, what a year ago, what would, he would had four years left on his deal heading into, you know, the second season. I just don't know what they would have gotten for him at that point. Well, you're not getting a Desmond Bain trade, I don't think. I was going to say you also, you know, it's nice to say DeBanza for a shot at DeBanza. You could end up with McHale Brown Jr., which is fine.

But like the chances are not are much better that you're not getting DeBancen. Obviously, this top four is outrageous. So maybe the odds would have been in your favor. But yeah, that's a good what if. Would you have traded for J-Lan this year if you were Brooklyn? Like last week? I think that was kicked around for sure. Oh, it was really.

kicked around. I heard the Nets front office was enthused. And then once it got to the higher levels, they were not as enthused. I don't, I haven't thought that much about it. I don't think I would. I don't think I would have. But I would have thought hard about it. And I don't like the path that I'm on really right now. I'm not that excited about it. But I don't think I would have. So now, now I would have at this, like, I don't know what the equivalent cost is. for Brooklyn versus like, like, what is their version of this trade? Because I don't think the Celtics would view someone like, I think it would have been, like, is Porter equivalent to Paul George basketball wise?

He's probably better than Paul George. I would say Porter's better. He's an expiring and is cheaper. So Porter plus, I mean, I don't like the deal with at that point gets pretty palatable for Brooklyn, honestly. Well, that's my question. If I'm running the nets and I see this trade and then I go and talk to my basketball people and I say, you guys told me you're interested in this Jaylen Brown thing.

I didn't, this was the price. So it just would have cost us Porter Jr. and we could have given them, I don't know, one of the Knicks first and maybe our own 2029 first and we get Jalen Brown. Look, we could add in with Julius Randall? This is the exact trade I pitched two weeks ago on the Zach Lowe show. Michael Porter Jr.

And a bunch of draft picks, like two picks, a swap, whatever. But you probably thought more than two first rounders. You probably thought like three first two swaps. Yeah. And that was one of the things that the social team clipped and put on my Instagram. And Celtics fans shit all over it. And I was just saying like, look, I said over and over again, this deal is going to net you. Once the honest thing fell through, this deal is going to net you a deal that makes you a little bit worse this coming season.

It is going to make the fans mad. I tried to prepare them for it. That was one of the deals I suggested. Everyone said it was a bad deal. It's not that bad of a deal. I wish they had traded him last summer now that I know how I played out and I got Paul George and two half decent picks. Do you think, this is my mailbag question to you, do you think they are overreacting to the last three games of the Philly series, one of which Jason Tatum didn't play? Like is too much weight being put on that versus the 56 wins that came before it?

I like the way Jalen played in the last game, game seven. I'm sure there's some advanced metric shit that could pick it apart. But remember he guarded and beat at one point? Like I felt like to me that's, that was the good and bad of Jalen all in one game. Like he took a couple of dumb shots, had to have a couple charges, whatever. That guy was willing to do anything it took to try to win the game. I'm not even just talking about him. I'm talking about like kind of giving up on this whole model of this.

team being a championship contender going into the next season. Well, that's another thing. Tatum, they put those minutes on Tatum and he lasted six games and then skipped the seventh one because he wasn't happy with something that was going over his legs. And Jalen was the fall guy? I'm not saying Tatum should have been, but I thought Missoula should have taken a lot more criticism. And I was talking about my pod as it was happening.

Like, why are we putting this many minutes on Tatea? Why are you trying to make them a 38 minute a game guy? I don't get it. Why not ease him back into it? Why not play him 28 minutes? This is from Jordan and L.A. With Jalen's value extremely low, I'd love to hear your blame pie for the reasons why.

Percentages of ability in the basketball court, massive contract, off court stuff. How would you split up the blame pie? I'm a huge fan in the pod. Go see it, even though I'm depressed. I would say off-court stuff and massive contract, probably 90% of that. What is off-court stuff with Jalen Brown? Because there's no like, people say that and it's used pretty liberally,

is it just like that he shares his opinions on Twitch? Because there's no like bad off-court stuff. And it's like bad off-court stuff. There's nothing like that. Thank you for clarifying that. Off-court stuff's the wrong phrase. let's go with self

criticism self awareness self awareness opinion of oneself opinion of oneself what we're going to say is like that's where it becomes hard to separate that from the basketball stuff because that's going to bleed into

is there going to be a tug of war for control of the team is that going to impact chemistry and they actually thought yes I mean that like I think that's fair to say I think they felt like this situation was what it was going to be. I think the contract, I would go 45 contract, 40% self-awareness, what's my role, all that stuff. And then ability in the basketball court, it is an advanced metrics friendly team. And I'm sure there's some things they didn't love.

On-off stuff, I'll never know what to make sense of it because you can't tell me the last year's team was better when he wasn't on the court. he had a huge, huge, huge load and showed up all the time and did so many things. You know, I remember talking about this during COVID or right after when Kyrie was only playing home games and his stat, remember his stats were really good? It's like, yeah, he's playing once a week. Like, if you're going to play, if you're going to miss 10 games in a season, you're going to play 36, 37 minutes and take the pounding that Jaylin did and go to the basket like he did and nine free throws a game and guard the other team's best player, you're going to have games

where you're not 100% and you play anyway. And I still feel like there's no way for advanced metrics to value that. The guys that whatever they're dealing with, they're still playing. This is one of LeBron. This is one of the great skills that he had, the durability and the consistency, no matter what his body was. I don't know. I just don't know how you put a number on that, Zach.

I would give the contract even more than 45% blame pie or 40% or whatever he said. I would go 50 at least. And it's impossible to separate that from the analytics, because the analytics are don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in relation to what percentage of the cap he's taking up and is it worth it to have that specific player taking up so much of your cap. But I would put the contract as like easily half the pie. Okay.

So if we're going to say that, how does Denver regard Jamal Murray right now? I mean, I think they love Jamal Murray. They love his chemistry with Nicole Yolkich. I think they're probably very aware that his, if they were to trade him, it would not look dissimilar from the Jalen Browns traded. It might even be a little bit worse because he's smaller and plays a position that is pretty well filled across the league. Because we have, he's over 50, right?

He's 50 this year, 54, 57. Yeah. And I wonder, is there going to be more Jalen Browns? Like, is Orlando going to start looking sideways at Franz Wagner? Like, Jesus. Well, he's on the smaller one. And that's the timing, right? But in two years, won't it be like 47, 48?

High 40s? He goes, yeah, 44, 45, 50, but 51 and 2030 is different than 57 now in terms of what percent of the cap it's going to be. It's the next one. It's the next one, you know. And that's the other thing that we need to talk about is like all these guys who are, I understand the extension rule and why it's written away it. is and why it's beneficial for both sides in a lot of ways to get security for players and teams. These players who are like, it happened with town.

It's happened with Jalen Brown. It's going to happen with a lot of other players. Like, you have three years left on your contract. Like, I don't think if I'm a general manager, I'm like, it's cool that you're eligible for an extension by the letter of the law. Can we wait a year, man? You have three guaranteed years left on your contract. Why?

But it creates, it creates issues within teams really early in the calendar of the contract. I feel like there's only four or five guys in the league that you would proactively just keep adding years to their contract, right? Like if Wembe is like, hey, I'd love another three years. It'd be like, great. That sounds awesome, Victor. Here's your next three years, right? Luca, same thing. I'm sure the moment Luca is eligible for an extension.

The Lakers will be pouring years in the extension. I just don't think Jalen's at that level. This question came all the way from Lance in Australia. Okay. Do you think Jalen Brown's trade happened, not because he asked to be traded, but because Tatum was jealous and said to Boston, it's him or me? I don't think it happened for either. I don't think it happened for that reason. I don't think Tatum said it trade him and I don't think Jalen Brown said trade me. I don't think either of those things happen. I agree with you. Good question. They're even in Australia. They're thinking about this. Noah is a Klipper fan. He said, I don't have a question. Welcome to the love, hate, Paul George relationship. I had a few. Cooper fans throw this at me.

You know, it is funny as I continue to try to talk myself from Nepal George. Really good career. Eight all-stars. One top five all-MBA. Third MVP, 2019. Five third-team all-MBAs. Three conference finals, 13, 14, and 21. 21 playoffs, Zach, 27, 10, and 5.

41 minutes a game. For his career, he's 21, 6, and 15. 4, 39% from 3. You guys had an awesome career. And yet, I don't know any Paul George fans, do you? Do you know, anybody's like, my favorite player is Paul George? Every young player who comes into the league,

who's a win, his favorite player is Paul George. I have been a huge Paul George fan. I think the last two years have tainted it a little bit. I've always been a fan. I wrote a big piece on him. I can't remember what playoff year it was. I remember that. I'm going to say late 2010s, maybe.

about his up and down sort of playoff record and particularly the last couple in Oklahoma City were not good and that I think it was probably the year the Clippers made the conference finals maybe in 2021. But anyway, like I've always been a pretty big fan but the last two years, he's now 36

and the decline is happening and the last two years have been problematic in a lot of different ways. Even I'm looking it up now, even Podcast P has gone dormant since July 2025, I was going to say, I think, a great moment to mark

this monumental transaction would be if you went on podcast P, but it appears to be, it appears to be dormant. Well, I think we're going to have them on the team this year, so I'd like him to feel welcome by all the Boston fans. Look, he's a 2011 draft guy. you know who else was the 2011 draft? Kawhi Leonard.

I mean, they were teammates. They were teammates. They were teammates for a hot second in Indiana. Yeah. As the summer goes along and I relax, I'm going to really start thinking more and more about how good Paul George was in that Boston series. Like, uh, maybe there's something left.

We'll take one more break and then I have more mailback. All right, it's time for a special segment on today's podcast where we discussed the superior matches team. and players. We're going to talk about players today for the FIFA World Cup 26 brought to by Mikhailov Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 26, a superior light beer. I'm going to dive into three players that I thought had superior impact, at least so far, in FIFA World Cup 26 as we head into yet another week. I love it. Can't wait. We're getting close to the finals. Three players that we thought would be three of the best guys in this tournament

have all delivered and then some. You have Mbapapé, 27. years old prime of his career uh france is playing paraguay over the weekend um they're parking the bus they're trying to agitate him they're trying to agitate all all the french guys and he just has this attitude he's seen it all i've been here before guys it's not none of this stuff's going to work france advances uh somehow he has been one of the two most memorable players in this tournament and i'm not counting harry kane just because we're recording this before the england Mexico game. But Holland on Norway. So look, if you watch Premier League, you've watched him on Man City the last couple years. I think they won in 2003. It's not like he's breaking news

that this guy's unbelievable. But he is the first striker I've ever seen who really makes me feel like I'm watching a dominant big man in basketball. Like there's pieces of all of these big guys that I've loved from over the years. Like early 90s, Sean Kemp on the headers, just anything close to the rim Sean Kemp would get. It feels like, anything in the box where he can have time to jump and, you know, get airborne and stick his head somewhere and just get over somebody he's putting away. Young Shaq banging bodies around. There's like three, four times a game. He'll just bowl over somebody. Footwork of, uh, of Hakeem and then, um, a little Michael Myers in there, too,

because he has the Michael Myers reactions after the goals. Everyone else loses their mind when they scores. He's like, he does the Michael Myers. I love it. Um, to me, he looks like when you have in the Little League World Series, the one kid who's way bigger than everybody else who just throws the team on his back. That's the feeling he's giving us during this Norway run and they had a great win on Sunday. So I still can't give him MVP through this past weekend because at least through the past weekend because it's got to be messy.

Carrying Argentina yet again, highest approval rating of any team sport athlete period right now. And game after game, it feels like he's doing a couple magical things. And it's so much fun to watch him and watch the delight that his teammates have, just getting to play with a legend like that who still got it. So I would have him the MVP so far as we head into yet another week of an awesome FIFA World Cup 26. If you disagree, Ultra wants to know.

They want you to share your superior moments from the FIFA World Cup 26. You have the chance to vote after every FIFA World Cup 2026 match for the superior player of the match on the FIFA Plus app. That player will get at the superior player of the match. trophy representing the host countries of Canada, Mexico, and of course, the U.S. So celebrate every goal, save and win with U.S. soccer and McLaugh, Ultra. All right, a couple more quick mailbag. Emmett from Chicago.

Do you think this brown trade happens if Tatum had won finals MVP in 2024? It's a pretty good one. I did talk about this with my dad, who refuses to come on the podcast. He's really mad. He doesn't want to say anything he regrets. I did wonder if Jalen wins the Eastern Conference won, Jason wins the finals MVP, and we never have this Avon Stringer thing that develops right after that.

I don't know if he doesn't get traded, but I do think it changes the dynamic. I do. I think the bigger what if is what if Tatum never gets hurt, and they just lose the Nick series and it's totally normal. Because I think that's the event that catapults Jalen Brown into a different role, then that changes everything. I don't, I haven't thought too much about,

about what if they split the MVP trophies? Does that? Because there's three what ifs because you have the finals MVP. What if Tatum doesn't get hurt? What if Tatum just doesn't come back last season? That's another one too. I mean. And it's just Jalen's team the whole year.

And we don't see Tatum until whatever. I think all three of those things, maybe no trade. I got the, I just, I'll have to, this is from Cage from Kansas City, but did get a few of these. Did Brad send Jalen to the Sixers to destroy them from the inside because Jalen will want to be the guy on the team and there to have Maxine and B.

I don't think that's why he did it. In fact, I don't think so either. In fact, it feels far away now, but man, are they going to face him a lot of times? And maybe in the playoffs and just it's going to just be a lot of Jailen Brad. I do think the fit is interesting. We have all summer to talk about. how those three guys are going to fit together in Philly.

I'm not particularly worried about it, but I don't think Brad Stevens did that. I like that Maxie, Edgecombe, and Jalen Brown all play basketball. They do. They play most of the games. 71 to 75 games, 36 to 41 minutes a game, all three. And you know who doesn't is Joe Lombie. But those three will be in a lot of games together, and I think they're going to be better than people think.

people seem pretty split on it's just going to be a weird team and is there enough basketballs and I think they'll be good. I think they'll be good. I will say this though. It's Tyrese Maxie's team and Jalen's going to if he goes there thinking like

finally I have my own team, I don't think that's going to go well, but we'll see. Well, I mean, there's also like when he plays, it's at least half Joel Embed's team and half Maxi's team. And when he plays, Joel Embed is still a colossal force.

He's a former MVP. like it's it's his team a lot when he plays too. I really liked everything the Sixers did this offseason. Simons for 12 million was a steal. Simons is good. That one snuck in under the way. I mean, they have a lot of guards, particularly after drafting Phylon too.

So, you know, that'll be interesting to see how they split that all up. The four position after Wade. I mean, we'll see where LeBron goes. Who knows? Oh, God. The whiteboard. I almost, I almost,

we were watching the Mexico England game at a friend of mine who had a whiteboard aside in the side of his kitchen because his daughter was using it for something. And I was like, should I put this in the back of our car and bring it home and have it like ready? Do it just whiteboard some locations? Ready? Because that whiteboard has really become a star in its own right. Ryan H says, first time writing in, love the show. Here's my thought worry. Brad Stevens, Michael Corleone, arc. I'm afraid we're on to the third movie. He says, part one, reluctantly joins the family, the front office,

and takes to it like a fish to water. Part two, makes the tough but right calls, bringing the family to ultimate power. Removing Tom Hagan and his conciliarie, Rob Williams trade. Wacking Fredo, Mark a Smart trade, all leading to the consolidation of the five families, Bator 18. Tom Hagan is Robert. Robert Williams was, he's called Time Lord because he's late all the time.

Tom Hagen was a precise machine. Ryan's on a heater. Don't talk about it. this. Part three, Michael tries to change the direction of the family by making it work in the legitimate world, the second apron. And then the process loses a child because of all the maneuvering. Jalen Brown moved prematurely because of the honest miss. And then he said, that's all I got for now. Pretty good. That's pretty good. I have to say, I have to admit, I never saw the Godfather part three because the buzz was so bad that I'm, I, I treat it like Jordan on the Wizards.

I don't want to, I don't want to know what happened. I'm just going to appreciate the first. It's better than Jordan on the Wizards. We did a rewatch was about it five years ago. It's like a guilty pleasure now. It's bad. I mean, there's really bad things about it, but it's worth seeing it. Oh, LeBron question. Oh, no.

No, I had to go backwards. Hold on. Okay. Christmas games. I sent this to you. Yes. Jalen wanted to know what the Christmas games will be. He predicted 76ers Celtics at noon,

Spurs next 2.30. He left 5 o'clock blank, 7.30 Minnesota Thunder. And then he said, 10 o'clock, Warriors, Lakers. I made my predictions, but you go. Would you write down?

Okay. I didn't tell you what I had. I'll be interested to see if we had the same five. So traditionally, the Knicks play first, but I'm now, I'm giving them the championship bump.

We're going prime time with the Knicks. Agreed. First game, Celtic Sixers. I had the same. Where'd you have the game? I didn't think about that. I'll put it. I will put it in in Boston.

I wanted it to be the return game. Yeah, I had that as well. All right, we're one for one. We're tied. 2.30 p.m. or the second game, I have Minnesota, Denver. Just like two great teams, lamello ball, excitement. They played each other last Christmas, good rivalry. I needed, this was the game I was less sure about, but that was the one I put in there.

I had Spurs Knicks as the second game, because the East Coast. Okay. That would be 2.30 p.m. Eastern time. I don't have Spurs Knicks as a game. Oh, okay. What do you have for the third game? I have 5 p.m. right before dinner, Thunder Spurs. Going with that rivalry again as a Christmas sequel.

And it's because I'm giving it the Knicks, the primetime game. And the problem is if I don't give them the Spurs and I don't give them the Celtics and I don't give them the Sixers, I'm kind of running out of marquee like Knicks' rival teams. There's no final rematch. but 730 Nick's Heat Janice Heat classic rivalry renewed defending champs get the dinner time

prime time spot that's what I went with my fourth game What's your fifth? I'll do mine after you do I just went Lakers Warriors fuck it like TBD on where LeBron signs and what team he's on but if he's on the Warriors and it's a revenge game against the Lakers

that's going to be the way I don't know what team he's going to be on I've covered all the possible LeBron teams except for the Cavs who I do not have I have I have Spurs Nix 230, Warriors at Lakers as the 5 o'clock, OKC at Minnesota.

And then Dallas, Denver, 10 o'clock, late night. I thought about Dallas. I thought about Dallas Lakers too. Just all the Luka games in Dallas are going to be fun. And Cooper Flagg showcase. But we have to account for LeBron. Like, LeBron is going to play on Christmas. Well, I have them in the 5 o'clock.

game with the Warriors Lakers played for the Warriors. Okay, so that's what... With Anthony Davis and Jemont Green and Yaxel and Steph Curry and everybody else. So the problem... I still think he's going to the Warriors. If he goes to Cleveland, I don't know who I'm bumping out. I mean, I don't...

I guess I would... No, if he goes to Cleveland, then 5 p.m.'s Cleveland at the Lakers. Lakers are going to have that 5 p.m. Okay. And then maybe Curry is the 10 o'clock. But that 5 p.m. I think will be the LeBron spot. All right, that was fun. Dave from San Antonio wants to know

Conspiracy Bill Are the Celtics clearing up money and building up assets for 2028 when Cooper Flagg tells the Mavericks he wants to go to Boston? It's from Dave from St. Antonio. I feel like conspiracy bill should be the one to answer that.

I always have my eye on Cooper Flag and the Celtics. It's a big Celtic family. I always have my eye on it. Listen, I have Paul George up my team and probably 51 and 31, 6 seed, and probably losing round one for the next couple of years. So I'm going to start dreaming about Cooper Flagg.

We did win the title on 24, though, in Zach. That happened to be kidding. Actually, you know, you're mentioning that. You're just throwing it out there as a little fun aside. We did. So I kept saying it won the title. During Deanna stuff, like as bad as this is going, like, they won a title. They got the thing done that no one can ever take away from you.

And that's the whole thing. We won a title this decade and it wasn't in the bubble. Joseph Quinn says, Hey, Bill, are we in Celtics Bizarro World right now? The Knicks are a likable NBA champion. You just traded your finals MVP to your division rival, and Brad Stevens is getting universally hammered. It is bizarre world time, it feels like.

I guess the final piece of that would be LeBron going somewhere super weird. LeBron playing with Curry, I think, would be the fourth piece of that. What's the weirdest LeBron team? Like, of all the ones that are on the whiteboard. Weirdest believable? Of all the ones that are on the whiteboard. What's the one that if it happened, you'd be like, wow, I can't believe that corner of the whiteboard is the one that had it. Minnesota.

Okay. He's just like, yeah, I'm going to hitch my wagon of lamella ball. That's how I'm going to end my career. And Arod is my, and Arod and Mark Lorry is my owners. And I'm just going to live in Minnesota. That just seems insane. Dallas was on the whiteboard. I'm going to just shove Dallas.

I'm going to erase them from the whiteboard. I would be shocked if you went there. So what's your answer? I guess it has to be Minnesota. I kind of would be surprised if it were Denver. It just doesn't, I think that would be a great spot for him. It just doesn't feel like things like that happen for Denver. Can we all agree Cleveland is the worst outcome?

I ranked it by basketball fits and like entertainment value fits that I had Cleveland last. It's just like forget. He went back there. He did his business. He brought them a title. He did it already. You can't go back again. And the reason is it's just the hardened piece.

is just like, he's going to, what is he going to be doing when James Harden dribbles 30 times? And he still plays that way a fair amount of time. Nobody in the planet thinks that's a team that could win the title. I just don't see it. I don't see it. I don't, I just don't see it. I don't think LeBron and Hardin is two of my five best guys. I'm winning the title.

I think it's ridiculous. I think in Golden State it would be ridiculous too. The problem for him is he was on a team that had two of, that had one of the best six players in the league and one of the best 40 players in the league. Oh, yeah, for sure. And they weren't going to win the title, no matter if LeBrona come back on a minimum and they had done this Kessler trade, I still don't think they would have. Now that they've traded DeAndre Aten, it's over. I mean, like, you can't recover from that.

I know. You can't recover if you're Joe House and you have to watch Troy Young, DeAndre Aton, high ball screens. I, uh, listen, basketball fan bill, Denver. I would love to see him in Yokage. I know you've talked about in your potter bunch. I totally agree. I think it would be really, it would be like some weird movie,

like two stars that you're like, I can't believe they're in the same movie. This is unbelievable. I don't think it'll happen. How much money do you think he's hoping for here? I mean, these teams don't have a lot to offer them. Yeah, I mean, if you can get the full mid-level, I think that's a win.

But it doesn't seem like he's prioritizing that. And at this point in his career, why shouldn't... Well, if he wasn't prioritizing that, why didn't he prioritize it last year instead of cashing in the $50 million? Right. Why didn't he opt out and... That would have really helped last year's team. Instead of releasing a aggressive, aggressive statement, I think, through Rich Ball and then opting in, why not just opting in? Why not just opt out? And you don't have to release any aggressive, aggressive statement.

You can just go wherever the hell you want. I did a thing on my pod the other day that I was really proud of and enjoyed about him doing the Roger Clements. Roger Clemens, the last couple of years when he was playing, he would just come back into the season, like in June or July, on Houston, just do like a three or four month run. Basically, I'm going to be, I'll be in peak shape by the time the playoffs start. I'm just going to show up. I'm going to pop in. Like, if they, if the ringers Rich Paul asked me what I think LeBron should do, I would tell him, I'm going to be. I'm going to come back in January.

I'm going to watch everybody. I'm going to play golf for six months. I'm going to think about everything. I want to watch all these different teams. I've never had a chance to just not play. I want to watch everybody and see where I might fit in. And then around January, maybe somebody will get hurt. Maybe I could be a replacement for somebody.

But I'll just have a better sense in January where to go and do it that way. And guess what? Everybody will just talk about it every week. Like we're talking about it right now. It'll just be like the story that won't have. Oh, Dallas is better than we thought. Could LeBron go there? We'll just be doing that for six months.

If you want the most attention, do that. Miles says, does this idiotic piece of malpractice beating the Jalen Brown trade join the Mount Rushmore of pathetic NBA trades along with Luca Russell, whoever else you have in the list. Thanks for all you do. So this did make me, I did make a little list here, Zach. Okay, let's hear.

It's the, oh, no, trades. Luca Bay number one. Barclay to Phoenix for Jeff Hornacek, Andrew Lang and Tim Perry. That was a nine out of ten. Oh, no. Like that was, I was immediately calling Joe House. Did you see that?

Like, just, oh, my God. Hard into Houston. Where do you learn about the Barclay trade? As a, as a sports radio. Yeah, that's how you learn about it. Yeah, that's like 2020 Flash. this just in. Charles Barkley's been traded. Hardin to Houston was an oh no. Philly traded the number one pick in 1986 for Roy Hinson and $750,000 in the draft of Brad

Dordy and Limbias. A classic, oh no, and I was happy they did it because I was a Celtic fan. I wasn't old enough to really remember my feelings on this, but when Portland had Moses Malone and traded him for one Buffalo first round pick and $232,000, $2,000, $2,33,000. $32,000. That's like, does someone have a specific debt that they're trying to repay? And then Buffalo, six days later, traded him for two number one picks. J-Kid to Phoenix, when Dallas traded J-Kid, that was, oh, God, why? You've J-Kid.

Why are you trading him? Vince to New Jersey, even though we were waiting for it, just because of how bad that trade was, where it was like, you have to, you get a lawns a morning, you're going to have to buy him out. You have, here's some shitty picks. here's Aaron Williams or Eric Williams. There's a Williams in it. They just got nobody. And then my last one, Utah is number three in 1982.

In the draft of James Worthy, Terry Cummings, and Dominique Wilkins are the top three picks. Dominic Wilkins hints that he doesn't want to play for Utah. They trade the pick for John Drew, who was in and out of drug rehab for years, Freeman Williams and $750,000. The moral of the story, Zach Lowe, anytime money, weird numbers of money is in a trade, just say, oh, no. It's not a good sign. But I think Luca Barkley, I don't know where Jay one's going to rank in this, but I think

everybody had the same reaction. Like, oh, no. That's the trade? I will say, I've heard and listened and read a bunch of people trying to say it's the most inexplicable trade since the Luca trade or it's as bad as, I don't think they're comparable. I think the lucid trade is like by orders of magnitude. And for many different reasons, the return,

the fact that they intentionally did not shop him the way that the Celtics campus, the whole league, it's just a different species of horrible mistake. I wouldn't put it above Barclay or Hardin either. The Hardin trade, I think, was way worse because just paying the extra $4 million and trade them. And you have a team that's willing to go

for a fifth year with even more money on them. That tells you at least have the asset. You could trade it. XF Vermeer as in New York writes, we had Kenny Hackinson talking about how the numbers said Cleveland was up on the next while they were actively getting eliminated.

We had Bobby Mark saying an analytics guy had Jalen Brown graded his seventh best on his own team. At what point did we stop calling an analytics and start calling it astrology for guys with Excel? We're one model away from some asshole telling us the team that lost by 30 actually won emotionally.

They feel better about it. Yeah. It is getting a little wacky. I mean, you just like, it's some of it, like, I don't know who said that to Bobby. I don't know. I don't know who those people are. They're obviously crazy. And I just think we don't have to as the media take the craziest thing that we hear and amplify it. We can use a little bit of better judgment about what we'd choose to amplify. Well, in that case, he was talking about, I'm talking this person. they really value Jalen Brown.

Then I talked to this person, and he said this crazy thing, and then that's the part that cut out. That's what happens to all of us, unfortunately. Mike from Hartford, Wisconsin. Hartford, Wisconsin. Do you know there's a Hartford, Wisconsin? I did not. He said, hi, conspiracy, Bill.

Immediately you have my attention. I'm moderately surprised that LeBron did announce his latest decision either on July 3rd to try to take some attention away from the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey wedding or on July 4th to take Shine from America's 2050th birthday, I think Mike thinks he's slipping. What are your thoughts? Wow.

I think the opposite. LeBron's going to take all of July to really enjoy the dialogue about where he might go. You want him all the way to January. Yeah. I think it's great. Was he not at the Taylor Swift wedding? You know who's at Taylor Swift wedding? Me.

Were you really? Yeah. No way. Flew back 24 hours. No, you did not. No, I really did. I went back. Got back in time for July 4th.

Have you, did I miss you? Fifty hundred people. Did you miss me? Did I miss you tweeting about this? I, you weren't kind of, you weren't supposed to do social media about it. How did you get? What's, I mean, it's a long story, a new, it was interesting. Do you want, what do you want to know about the wedding?

I don't really, like, I mean, so. Any questions? Was there a reception? Did you just get to go to the wedding? Was the party also? There was a wedding. There was a food. I didn't look at anything.

Adam Sandler did the, he married them and sang this song because apparently they loved one of his movies. They didn't have tables. Like you weren't at a wedding table. You were just, they had these food courts. And a lot of it was like big pictures. By the way, I didn't go to this wedding. I just want to see if you didn't believe me. You did.

You thought I went to the wedding. That was unbelievable. skeptical, right? I mean, no, I roped you in. You believe me. All right. Well, look, it's 1230 in the morning. It's 12.30 in the morning. I knew I can get groggy Zach to buy it to that. I was going to ask who your plus one was, why I didn't get considered as the plus one because boy, I would like to go. You know who's there? Tommy Alter. I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't know what to believe. No, Tommy Alter was there. All right. Matt and Charlottesville wants to know, why doesn't one of the teams in the running for LeBron

just go ahead and trade for Brani right now? Who sent this in? Matt and Charlottesville. I mean, if it were a deal breaker that he has to play with Brony, he wouldn't have left the Lakers. I think he's ready for Bronnie to be released like the doves

and just go fly. Fly and be your own man. So if you're Cleveland, you wouldn't trade Desquan Tomlin? Nequan Tomlin? Naquan Tomlin. Naquan Tomlin. I don't know.

I thought of Dayclan. Boy, if that happened, I mean, it would just be the all-time. There are no tea leaves. There's nothing to, there's no dots to connect. Like, that's the,

if a team trades for Brony James in the next week, I think we're going to know something, something is up. Golden State has somebody. He makes, Bronny makes like 2.2.

So I went on the trade machine. I looked at all the teams. So if Golden State really wanted him, try to get Bronny first. That's the swing. smart move. One of my favorite subplots of the summer so far has been Pat Riley reportedly just stonewalling all the Anta Tocombo brothers, just like Thanasis, no, it's not happening here. Alex, Postas, don't even think about it, but Thanasis, you can buy some tickets.

We'll maybe give you a seat, but you are not playing for the Miami Heat. I think all the guys on the heat are relieved. They don't have to practice against thanasis. I think he was a physical practice player. You know, I got this question a few times, and I'll read this one from Edwin from La Mirada, California. He also asked for a conspiracy bill. I always gets my attention. Is the Kauai Trade to Toronto, the modern-day version of Jordan's retirement in 1993? The parallels are undeniable.

The NBA has intra-convertable proof that a player is guilty of crime. that make the league look bad. But instead of airing out their dirty laundry in public, they quietly forced the player in a double secret probation. Jordan to play minor league baseball, Kaua, ex-I-O, and the NBA version of Siberia, Toronto. That is, that is.

That's hurtful. Who sent this? Edwin from La Mirada, California. Edwin, state your source, Edwin. Okay, put your full name on the email. State your source. That's a BS. Toronto is an amazing city.

It's not ex-I. It's a great city. Great people. Great food. Great nightlife. Great everything. Except the weather. And by the way,

Edwin points out, at least Jordan got to stay in the country. He just couldn't play basketball for 18 months. He's going to be coming in and out of the country at Will. Okay, we think, and they're going to be a very good basketball team. It's not like they traded him to,

you know, the Kings or something like that. Conspiracy bill did take a look at this. Did catch us a day. attention. Go back to when Kauai signed and Toronto was really mad because they felt, by the way, Toronto may or may not have been involved a little in this aspiration scam.

They certainly were talking about Uncle Dennis, right? Oh, and just in, Uncle Dennis wanted this from us. They wanted that. Like they, I felt like they were one of the sources for kind of the things Uncle Dennis was asking for, I mean, somewhere to 2019.

That's come out in the media. and even before the aspiration scandal it, I think. Okay. So you lose Kauai because this other team. This is all legend, by the way. It's just conspiracy bill considering the argument. You lose Kauai because this other team goes beyond the rules to get him. And Adam says, all right, here's how I'm going to fix this.

You will now return Kauai to the Raptors. They're going to trade these picks. And then my ruling will be the picks no longer matter. And Toronto basically gets Kauai. for nothing. That would get conspiracy bills. The picks no longer matter. Like we're sending them back to Toronto as punishment for- Yeah, Toronto gets the, you clippers don't get to use those picks. They just go back to Toronto. Oh, no, that would be something. That would be something. That would be pretty good. Yeah, that would be something. Would that make you wonder? Would that make you go, huh?

The other thing would be is if Balmer buys the Seattle Seahawks. Okay. And decides, I've always wanted to own the NFL team in Seattle. I've had a great run here in the Clippers. I built the new stadium. I am now going to sell the Clippers. And we'll never know why he's sold. It would be another conspiracy bill.

Has accepted that one on his desk. He's looked at that one as well. It's in a yellow envelope just marked. Mark top secret conspiracy. Jack in Missouri said about my idea in the colonoscopy pod. I like that it's now the colonoscopy pod. You had to know that that's what it was going to be. That LeBron might wait until December, January to sign on a team.

He said, what if he chose this team based on the winner in the NBA Cup and just sat courtside? Winner gets LeBron. Announced it. And then the kings begin creeping through or the NBA Cup. He's like, oh, no, I got to get out of this. They're in the quarterfinals, so they're in the semifinals. Oh, boy.

It's getting nervous. So this one excited me. We talked about surprise LeBron teams. Josh Cook said, LeBron and Indiana with the Pacers would be wild, right? He loves getting out and running. That's what Halberton's teams do. Starting five with Tyrese, Nemhard, LeBron, Seacobot, Zubots, McConnell, Neesmith, Ubra, Topin, and Porter.

They nailed both ends of the floor, shooting, rebounding, and selfless basketball, and I'm not even a LeBron fan. That is from Josh Cook. That was Mahoney's. I agree. That was Mahoney's pick when he came on my show. I said, what's your just fun? Fun only, that's the only criteria.

He said Indiana. And by the way, apologies to Indiana. I should have mentioned we were doing Christmas games when I was thinking who could the Knicks play. And I settled on Nick's Heat. I thought about Nick's Pacers. That would be really fun because the Pacers are the team like the Knicks. The Knicks didn't have to go through the Pacers.

The Pacers can still sit here and say, we beat that team twice in a row in the playoffs. I know there's lots of injuries and all that stuff, and that's obviously a classic rivalry as well. So that would be the Christmas, if they just have that noon spot, and that

just belongs to the Knicks every year, Knicks Pacers makes more sense, I think, or Nix versus whatever LeBronty. Andrew Smith wants to know, why don't the Sixers trade a bead to the Bucks for Miles Turner and Kyle Kuzma right now? Kuzma's an expiring Turner has three years left.

Okay. Who has a longer meeting on that? I've taken note. I've taken note. It's 1240 in the morning. I'm a little groggy, but that's, I mean, look,

obviously that's not going to happen. I think. I thought it was interesting. I mean. So Philly would be basically in a year, they would just have the Miles Turner number because Kuzmouda expire. So you would have a center for $30 million less than a year.

I mean, this goes back to like how many times can, we say things like, but the upside of Embed if he ever stays healthy for the playoff? Like is it just time to give up on that? Yes. So I would. I think. Oh, if I'm Philly, I'm the opposite. I'm looking at Embed like,

I have these three durable, really good players that I can build a regular season around and I can sprinkle Embed in, keep them healthy, and just try to get in the playoffs. That counter argument would be, well, you did that last year and you got hurt anyway. Can he get through four playoff rounds healthy? I mean, I'm skeptical of that alone.

What if you just played him twice a week even during the playoffs? So he played like game two, game four, game five, and game seven. Like he just played four of the seven games. Poor Nick Nurse trying to manage that. I do think the idea, what I'm fixated on is this trade rattles around my brain is like Joelle Embed, Milwaukee Buck, just how miserable is that person going to be? Like what is happening? What team why on now?

my whole career to Philly where at least like a good team and now I'm on the bucks. Although that would be a post-ionis bucks. A lot of fun pieces for him. Well, Tyler Harrow. This is from Mel.

He says podcasters have used. Can't put the toothpaste back in the tube too many times. Okay. Including you, I guess. It's fine. He has some alternatives. Can't put the milk back in the cow.

Can't put the shit back in the ass. And then he had a third one that I'm not going to say, but it involves sperm. I don't like any of those. Can't put the milk back in the cow? I don't think he'd nailed that one. The third one, the third one was just playing offensive.

I'm not even going to say it. I thought he was going to say, can't put the milk back in the carton or something, but we just went straight, straight back to the source. Tim Bauer is one of many people who wrote about the NBA Players Association. and mainly represented by so many called stars, screwed over its own middle class. I talked about this on Thursday.

These contracts for the middle class guys, even Simons, two for 12 and a half for Simons. Simons is good. The Lakers were like, hey, wait a second, middle class. You want to come to us? Quinn Grimes,

here's 60 million. They were the only ones who, they were partying like it was 2016. But for the most part, the Dean Wade, four for 39, I felt are a little more old school, but yeah. All right, a couple more, and then we're done.

Josh and Raleigh, imagine you're dating an absolute smoke show in college. She was tons of fun, but completely insane. She's amazing and bad at parties, but she also goes through your phone when you're not looking. Also, she's a horrible driver. You know it's not going to last, and that she isn't the kind of girl to introduce to your parents, so you break up. Deep down, you know she was a long-term solution, but when she's gone, you just feel alone, and that sucks.

That's how it feels to be a Hornets fan right now. Josh really went deep. I was wondering. I was trying to figure out where that was going. And then you figured it out. It landed in a good NBA place, actually. Good email. Brandon says cheers.

The next can basically live like Kings of New York for the rest of their life. But as a post-career business, I think the biggest no-brainer is for Landry Shamit. Just open a chain of laundromats in the five boroughs called Laundry Shamit. He'll print money. Would you go to Laundrie Shammett? I think that's a, it's a harder, it sounds great. It's a harder business than you think. Laundry, you can't just call it Laundry Shammett.

And it's not, it's not like he has $300 million to spend just opening up laundry Shammots all over the place. Yeah, he made a backer. Nicholas said, uh, he couldn't believe the Cavs 2016 championship 10 year reunion that Kyrie didn't go, that Moscoff wasn't invited. Moscoff was just unaware. It's just unaware. felt bad for him. But he wants to know how will the Celtics celebrate in 2034?

Will everyone be invited? Who will ghost it? Will Porzinga still be injured? And will Pritchard get blind drunk? And repeatedly yell, this is what I do. All right. Let me look at the roster. I think Jalen would probably be the

iffyest invite, but I think he goes. I think they forget. about FEMA High Luke. I think he's the Mosgov of the, I think he checks Instagram and it's like, oh. That's a good one. That hurts. I think Jalen goes.

I think by then we're in a good spot, or a good enough spot. And Al Horford won't go because it'll coincide with his 50th birthday party. Ben Craven in Ludlow, Shrop Shreier, UK, I feel like he's written before. He wants us to set the overender for future

All-Star appearances of all combined players and picks received by Milwaukee and the Miami traded for Yannis. Okay, that's a good one. He said 0.5. I would go 1.5. I think Hero may have like 27 points a game next year. Hold on. So we have Burry's Amen.

What else do we have coming in that? Burrys A-Men. Kelly Olinick, where? Future Miami lottery pick would probably be your best. chance. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think how many future things. I think Burrys could make one. I'm going to go one and a half. I like one and a half, but zero point five is too long. Um, okay. This one's too long. I really want your reaction on this. Let's do. Go ahead. It's a July 4th email. It's from Ben and St. Louis. He said, uh,

July 4th will mark our semi-quincentennial anniversary. Is that a word? semi-quincentennial, and perhaps that's significantly, the 10-year anniversary of Kelly Olinick killing Boston's chances of getting Kevin Durant. Recall KD had narrators' choices down to OKC, Boston, and Golden State. A Celtic contingent flies to the Hamptons where Katie has a house rented. The group is Tom Brady, Danny Aange, Brad Stevens, the owners, Marcus, Smart, Isaiah Thomas, Jay Crowder, and Kelly Olinick. What happened was Kelly Olinick in a tie-dye shirt versus St.

Def Clay and Draymont's 73 win team. He's still upset about it. He still blames Kelly Olinick for the Celtics not getting Kevin Durant. I think there were other reasons. Kelly Olinick specifically and the shirt that he was wearing. Maybe he wore a tie-dye shirt. I don't remember the tie-dye shirt. Is he speculating?

I mean, there's got to be Google images. Why did Tom Brady go too? That was another weird one. I want to look, I want to look this up now. I mean, is he was there a picture of all them in the Hamptons? That's what I'm looking. that's what I'm looking for. I don't see any tie-dye shirts.

Katie should have come to Boston. Oh, he is wearing a T-shirt. Yeah. It's not quite a tie-dye shirt. He's got a backwards hat, and he's got a white t-shirt with some tie-dye-like image. It actually might be a tie-dye t-shirt.

Hmm. Interesting. I should have been more focused on it. All right, last question. It's from Shurb from San Francisco. He's on a group chat about the King's franchise. with a bunch of Kings fans that they call

the Kang's fan annual season timeline and he's posted the same timeline below every year for the last five and somehow he is it every month on the dot this past year with the A Cubs. So this is he sent, this is from 2022.

He sent me the screenshot. There's a screenshot. Okay. October. We're going to be good this year. November. Oh no, we suck again. December. Team is actually good, but our coach sucks. January. New coach also sucks. So it's probably our GM that sucks.

February. We could turn it around at the trade deadline. March, we definitely still suck. We should tank. Why are we winning? April. We suck and our draft pick sucks. May. Our draft pick doesn't suck. Hope. June, the guy we drafted and traded for is awesome more hope. July. Bro, our Summer League guys look sick. August, positive Sacktown royalty training camp news, Mega Hope, September, undefeated in preseason. Five seed, question mark. That's the 12 stages of Kings by month. And that's the same. He's done that the same. He's that he posted five years in row. He's posted that in his group chat. And he said they've already nailed the A-Cuff thing. Now, A-Cuff, I guess he had 24 points on 29 shots last night, Summer League.

So I don't know if the Summer League bro or Summer League guys look sick is coming out yet. The Beam team, it just blows that whole thing up. The beam team didn't follow that at all, but that is an anomalous Sacramento King season. Maybe that's the thing. Maybe that was an anomaly. I hope A-Cuff works out because it's pretty bad. For league pass purposes, we need A-Cuff. to work out or else that is the number one.

I don't want to watch that team team. Who do you have a, who do you have you when you do league past rankings? Who is the, who's the favorite to be 30th right now for you? I mean, is it just Brooklyn every year? You like their court. Milwaukee's got a chance to be pretty rough. I feel the same. I don't know if I'm going to be diving into a lot of bucks games next year.

Chicago's got some young guy, Sheen. Oh, I'm excited for Chicago. Caleb Wilson, yeah. That'll be fun. Milwaukee's, Milwaukee might be, Milwaukee might be my. Clippers, Clippers could be a little, if Yannick, if my guy Yonick doesn't come back. I think he's all right.

I don't know how long you can have a Jones. What did he have a Joe? Yeah, one of the bad things. Liz Fank. Yeah, he'll be all right. Yeah, I would, I think Milwaukee is the odds on paper. I think you're right. We'll wrap it up.

When's your next podcast? Probably going to go up Tuesday morning. I think we're going to record tomorrow on some Lakers stuff and Jalen Brown fallout and whatever else happens. Maybe LeBron will sign in the next 48 hours. Who knows? I don't think so. Doesn't seem like it. I think basically everybody's signed now.

The only things we have in play left are Peyton Watson. There's a couple of restricteds, right? What happens with Duren? I haven't like Detroit's offseason at all, just for the record. It's been a strange one. Yeah. It's been a strange. Yeah, we've got some of that.

And then the no-brainer extensions will come, you know, like, oh, the Wemba-Yama extension and stuff like that. But yeah, Jaila Endurance, that's going to be fun. Do you think we'll ever see a player in our lifetime not do the rookie extension early and just do the stare-down? I mean, we've seen that. I think what you're really asking is, will anyone take the qualifying offer? That's what I mean. Yeah.

Yeah. I, there's been candidates. I think the money is now reaching a point where you're basically losing $35 million or something. It's a pretty risky decision. And I don't see anyone coming down the pike at this point. Groggy, Zach, thanks for staying up to almost 1 o'clock your time. We put the toothpaste back in the tube. We put the shit back in the cow.

I don't know what that guy was saying. I'll leave for the rewatchables is coming either Monday night or Tuesday night, I think we're doing a post-socer thing tomorrow. And then hopefully the NBA will calm down. Thanks for staying up late. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo and Jack and everybody else at Spotify, too. And I'll see you tomorrow night live on Netflix right after the America game. Must be 21 plus in President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino

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