The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 108: Friday Rollin' NBA Free-Agency Edition

Episode Date: July 1, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Joe House to discuss the first official day of NBA free agency, Durant's window with Golden State (10:00), Curry's "superstar" durability (24:00), Dwight's next destination (32:00), the most tortured NBA franchises (40:00), Miami's ability to avoid disaster (50:00), the Celtics' FA scenarios (56:00), and the Thon Maker age conspiracy (1:01:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, happy July 4th weekend. Today's episode of the BS Podcast is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor and the only fan-friendly app for buying and selling tickets for sports and music, which is two taps on your phone, you can instantly buy SeatGeek tickets to an event. You can have them delivered to your phone and you can enter the event. Two taps. Isn't technology amazing? Drop your old ticket app. Use one that's built

for 2016. Again, do everything on your phone. Download the free SeatGeek app or go to SeatGeek.com. Today's episode is also brought to you by my buddies at FrameBridge. They have beautifully framed nearly every poster in my awesome office, as well as a couple on our Any Given Wednesday set. I got to say, the TLC they put in their framing and packaging, it's amazing. It's one of my favorite companies. I am a Framebridge groupie. Their prices start at $39. All shipping is free. Go to framebridge.com, use promo code BS, you get 15% off your first order. Trust me on that one. We're also brought to you by Undeniable's Week on TheRinger.com.

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Shaq House, Channel 33. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks for spreading the word for us. Last but not least my new HBO show. It's called any given Wednesday. We have not been canceled yet. Our ratings went up for episode two. Thank you. Uh, up by like 27% or something. I was excited. Maybe the show won't get canceled. Maybe I'll have, maybe I'll get to keep my day job and my night job. We did our second show with Mark Cuban, Malcolm Gladwell, and Bill Hader. You can watch the replays on HBO Now, HBO Go, and HBO Demand. We also put some bonus clips up.

And we are going to have a whole site that has all of these bonus clips and all the extra stuff we're doing. That's probably launching mid-July, late July 19th, something like that. In the meantime, you can go to HBO Go or HBO Now. Just click on the episode, scroll down, and the bonus clips are up there. We put a couple on Facebook. We put a couple on our YouTube channel. All that stuff's available. If you like the Gladwell Cuban thing, we did another 11 minutes with them on peds so that is on the internet and it's good and i accused cuban using hgh at one point he said no no i've never used it it was fun it was all good natured but uh check that out any given wednesday thanks to hbo they've been awesome uh

what a great experience to create a show with awesome people that's it let's go joe house on the line. Yeah. Clear enough for you. Old school. Friday rolling. July 4th weekend. Joe House on the line.

It's always fun to Friday roll with Joe House. But when it's July 1st and it's NBA free agency day and weird stuff's happening and at the same time the salary cap has doubled to the point that people like DeMar DeRozan are now worth $140 million. It's quite a day. God bless America. Unbelievable. That's all you can

say. God bless America. And we're Friday rolling on a 4th of July weekend. Somebody on Twitter made the point that say god bless america and we're friday rolling on on a fourth of july weekend somebody on twitter made the point that you just maybe it was maybe it was somebody quoted danny age that you just have to all the figures that we're seeing with these contracts and we're taping this at 1 30 we started at 1 35 eastern time so stuff might happen as as we're doing this but all the figures yeah we got the twitter open we go We're looking for Woj bombs. Yeah, Woj bombs.

If Woj tries to bomb this podcast, we'll be ready. We're in the Woj bomb shelter. But if you divide the numbers by two, they make more sense compared to what we have experienced the last 10 years, right? That's great. I had a conversation. I had to squeeze a little golf this morning before we got on the pod. I was out with a Knicks fan who was gleefully watching what happened to the Lakers with Moskov. Yeah. And we were both laughing at Moskov. But, you know, four years at $16 million, if you just apply that Aims rule, four years, $8 million, say sure.

But, you know, here we are. Eight is the new 16. Or 16 is the new eight. Right. But the funny thing about that is if they had given Mozgov 32 million for four years, I still probably would have made fun of it. So you almost have to divide the Mozgov contract by four for it to make sense. By four. What are the Lakers doing?

What are the Lakers and Knicks doing? These big market teams are just like, hey, here's money for some non-all-stars. The Knicks are out of control. I just can't believe it. You did a great job last week on this pod with the Knicks thing, and then you doubled down on the show any given Wednesday, a wonderful video clip of all of the overpriced, over-aged dudes that they brought in. And lo and behold, the news overnight, they're taking a long, hard look at Eric Gordon.

I know. You know, it's funny. We do that thing. The Knicks have been in business with so many different guys who are past their prime or right after you want them that we had to cut people out of that segment. My apologies to all the guys from the 2000s that we weren't able to fit in there, like Rasheed Wallace, Baron Davis, all those people.

We had a time limit on it, so we had to cut them out. And we're doing it, and it's like, initially it was just geared toward how dumb it would be if they signed Dwight Howard because he peaked five years ago and then we were like

well what if they go after Noah he's peaked three years ago so we shoehorned that part into the video segment and then they signed Noah who literally peaked three years ago it's so Nixie

Eric Gordon I'm not even sure he ever peaked did he peak? I mean he had one season. I think, you know, if they're trying to put a team together, it's going to be the 2010 All-Stars.

Where is Dwayne Wade in this? Six years ago, all these guys had great seasons. Where's Dwayne Wade? Isn't Dwayne Wade the Nixiest Knicks move of all time? I thought for sure they'd go after him. If they get Wade and Howard, that would be it. Yeah. Dwayne Wade's feelings are hurt.

He peaked in 2011. He's perfect on this team. Or he actually peaked in 2009. I guess the tail end of his peak was 2011. But I guess these teams just think the cap's going to keep going up and just keep grabbing guys. But depending on what happens with Durant, and as we started recording this,

David Aldridge, good guy, DC's own David Aldridge reported that Durant- Yeah, I love DA. The meeting was in hour three with the Golden State guys in the Hamptons. So I don't know. What do you think? What would you do if you were KD?

Sign a one-year deal with OKC, play out the season, and then see what everything looks like a year from now. Everybody has done a great job. A lot of different sources have done a great job of laying out how the economics are so dramatically different if he pursues that route for him. All right, here's my counter. I think this is his window to sign with Golden State if that's the move. He can't do it next year. Because if they don't get him, they're going to overpay Barnes. And then they have Curry coming next year.

And I just don't think there's any way to fit all those guys under the same salary cap, no matter how high it goes. And if you're Durant and you have a screw in your foot and you have a chance right now to cash in for four years, what is it like 98 million, but then you can have a two year opt out and they can give you way more money after that. And you're on a team. And I went back, I looked through all the championship teams. You would say Klay and Draymond. Klay and Draymond are two of the top 12 players in the league, right?

Don't they have to be on that list? Klay, definitely. Top 15, easy. I'm good with top 15. I would say top 12. You could even kind of talk me into top 10. But let's say top 12 you could even kind of talk me into top 10 but let's say top 12 to be safe and then you put curry and kd who are two of the best four players in the league so they'd have four of the

top 12 which by my accounting and i and i might have been off but i don't think i don't think i was because i once wrote a 703 page book about the nba i'm going to trust my own instincts on this i think this i don't think any team has had four of the top 12 since, like, Russell Celtics. I think that's the last time that happened. They had Russell. They had Sam Jones and Havlicek and Kuzi. And Havlicek wasn't even in the top 12. I'm not even sure they had four of the top 12.

So the Lakers and Celtics each had three guys. The Celtics had four, but not at the right times of their careers. The Bulls had Rodman, Pip, and Jordan. Lakers had Shaq, Kobe. That's it. The Lakers in the 80s had worthy magic kareem but they never had the fourth the celtics had bird mikhail paris they never really had the fourth you could say the early 80s celtics had bird tiny archibald parish young mikhail they never really had the fourth

it's just unprecedented they they won 73 games and he goes to that team and it really does have a chance to be the greatest team of all time for years, not just for one year. He's got to be thinking about that. He's got to be thinking about what's his life like if he goes to San Francisco in the Bay Area and Silicon Valley and all the business opportunities there versus what he has in OKC, which basically he's there during the season. That's it. I mean, by the time people listen to this pod, he'll probably have decided, and my guess is he'll go back to OKC for a year.

But I think it's dead even. I think Golden State has a real chance. I have a little intel. I think they think they have a chance. And I think that's one of the reasons they waived Ian Clark and James McAdoo, two guys that I like, two guys that, to me, it's like if I'm the Lakers or the Knicks, I would much rather be going after guys like that who are really effective role players who didn't play that often, but when they came in, they kind of held the fort.

And they were practicing around guys like Klay and Draymond and Curry every day and they were in the Steve Kerr, Luke Wallen culture. You want guys like that in your team. I don't understand why teams haven't gone for them, but to waive those guys makes me think that they think they have a real chance at Durant. What do you think? Well, I think they think that. I don't disagree that their approach to Durant is earnest

and that they are absolutely 115% trying to land him. I just don't think for Durant, I think this whole exercise is a rehearsal for next year. This is an exercise where he a the rarest of rare opportunities not unlike uh... uh... you might be familiar with that for the guy named bill simmons who had an opportunity to kind of test the market see what folks were interested in uh... with him if this rare opportunity like you did last year after you after the fp and

suspended you and your everybody knew your contract was coming to a close yes i can't a the folks came out of the woodwork. They want to have some conversations with you, show you a little bit of what was going on inside their house. I think that's what's going on here with KD, right? He has a rare opportunity to see what's going on with some of these other franchises, what the inside looks like, because he can't, you know, he's playing this season out at OKC.

You can't really get an inside look at the way the inner machinery works, what the GM and the owners and the players all together, what they have in mind for a game plan, what their future looks like. And, you know, Lakob has told us all they're light years ahead in Golden State. That's true. He's a genius. Go see what, he wants to see what light years look like. I think ultimately you and I are on the same page. He's a genius. He wants to see what light years look like.

I think ultimately you and I are on the same page. He's going back to OKC, but this is a free look for him, and he should spend three hours. He should spend six hours. I mean, I would try and learn as much as I could from that group. They just set an all-time record in terms of regular season wins and were four and a half minutes of a cold streak away from going back-to-back as NBA champions. I like him better in OKC than with this Golden State team at the moment because of what just happened in the playoffs. Yeah, so you're saying for next year only, you're right. I think if he goes back to OKC, especially after that awesome trade they made,

I think they're prohibitive favorites. Prohibitive. I think they should be two-to-one favorites. Like minus 200, minus 250, something like that. I thought the Oladipo Sabonis combo was that important. I really like that team. I think they should have won last year. At the same time, this is his one chance to go to Golden State.

I don't think that window is open next year. I disagree. I think we're in an era now where everything is going to be moving in kind of seismic ways every two to three months because of the dramatic unknowns that this new salary cap has presented. Yeah, but it's simple math, though. It created a set of variables that nobody really has their arms around. It's math, though. Well, I mean, yeah, they could maybe, if if they sign Barnes maybe they trade Barnes to

clear the cap space but Curry is going to sign probably the biggest deal in the history of the league next year I would guess he's going to sign a five-year deal for whatever the max is and it might be over 200 million I don't even know it's he'll be the first $40 million a year guy unless LeBron doubles down on his Cavs experience. I think KD has more service than Curry. It's based on service. You're allowed to take a certain percentage of the cap based on service. And Durant entering next season is a 10-year service guy. Yeah.

You're assuming that he would go back. Are we sure Kevin Durant's going to spend his whole career in Oklahoma City? I think if he goes back, it's for one year and he feels like he owes it to them. I just look at it from the vantage point of the people on that team watching him go through this process. It still hasn't totally been explained to me why he's going through the process. What you said makes sense. Yeah, he's testing it out. He wants to, you know, he wants to see what's out there.

He wants to see what some of these other teams are about. I get it. But why do it in the Hamptons? Why make a spectacle out of it? Where else would you like it? I mean, would you prefer that he be in the French Riviera? I mean, what's wrong with the Hamptons? He clearly wants to be courted.

He deserves to be courted. Yeah, but he doesn't want to be courted by anyone that he wouldn't play for. That's the part that's interesting to me. That makes sense, too. Yeah, but if this was all fake, if this was all, I'm just going to go through this charade and get some attention, then I'll end up at OKC. Then you take the meeting with the Knicks, and you take the meeting

with the Wizards. You get all those fan bases excited. But it's not fake. It's not a charade. I think he's legitimately listening. He's legitimately walking into these meetings with an open mind. He has a leaning. But that's my point. It's not fake. That means the window is open just put, but that's my point. It's not fake.

That means that the window is open for him, but that means the window is open for Golden State. Because if this was just like, if this was like Dwayne Wade in 2010, where he's like, oh, I might leave. And he didn't want to leave.

He was going back to Miami. He was trying to get those guys to play with him in Miami. He's like, oh, I might go to the Bulls. Oh, I'm going back for a second meeting. And he's full of shit.

Durant, I don't think is full of shit with any of this I think he wants to see what's out there and he wants to be courted and if I'm the Warriors I'm in that meeting right now and I'm like we can get this guy this guy wouldn't be here unless a small tiny part of him wanted to come to our team does it make sense oh that's true I think the same would be true of San Antonio. I bet San Antonio does an unbelievable presentation and makes him feel incredibly loved and gives him something very serious to ponder. I don't think anyone...

Arty Buford and Pop are legit. Yeah, but I don't know if LaMarcus is a big selling point. I don't know if LaMarcus is a big selling point. I don't know if I'm an NBA star. I'm like, oh, great, I get to spend eight months a year with LaMarcus Aldridge. And Kawhi Leonard, who doesn't speak. That sounds awesome. And Tim Duncan's going to retire.

Great. I don't know. I don't know. Now the Spurs fans are going to be mad at me. I don't know. LaMarcus, the moodiness with him just worries me a little bit for them. I don't. They set a franchise record for wins this past season. I mean, they were right there until they ran into a matchup that they just didn't have an answer for.

Joe House, you can't tell me how to feel. I can't help what's in my heart. I don't know if I'd want to spend eight months here with LaMarcus Aldridge. I just don't. Okay. That's you. But they also signed Mike Conley. I don't know if they could fit all these guys under the cap.

The Mike Conley thing is interesting because it does seem like he also wants to be courted. And yet all these teams have point guards. The Mike Conley market should have 20 teams going for him and everybody's kind of set at that position either because they like the guy they have, they're grooming somebody to become a star, or they're stuck

with the guy they have, like Phoenix. I'm sure Phoenix would much rather have Mike Conley than the two guys they have. They don't have a choice, so they can't even get in the door with him. Well, Utah is still a team that could really use a professional grade point guard. Well, they got George Hill. Does he count? I think he counts.

No. I said professional grade. Oh. People like George Hill. He's a great backup player. He's an excellent guy. Oh, George Hill. I wouldn't start George Hill.

Put that on George Hill's Twitter feed. Put it on his Twitter feed. Joe House thinks you're a backup. He is a backup. Oh, my God. George Hill's Twitter feed is lighting up. It's lit. So, if you're Kevin Durant and you want to win the title next year,

we both agree he should go back to Oklahoma City. I think it's equal. If he goes to any of Golden State or San Antonio or Oklahoma City, he has an equal opportunity to win the title next year. All three of those teams demonstrated over the course of last season championship chops, right? All three of those teams have the players in place and the coaching staff and everything from the owner all the way down to the guy that's mopping up the floor.

Those franchises are built to go win a championship. They can all beat Cleveland. I'm not sold on Golden State as much. I think that was a Russian, the Russian is cut. I think it was one of those moments for them in the finals. I think that was the all-time

irrational confidence team. And they just fed off it. And they loved it. And they were great at it. And then it just became a little too irrational. And now I don't know where that team stands.

But they just went cold for four and a half minutes. But that's the thing. Their whole season was constructed for whatever reason, they never went cold. And I don't know. I just wonder if there was a little Tyson Douglas potential with that. Well, what's going to be fascinating is all of them, and Kerr's been on the record a couple different times i bet they win we're going to have a great time with their over under this

coming season i i bet they win 59 to 62 games there's no reason whatsoever i'll tell you what i didn't like the way they did last year i'll tell you what i didn't like i didn't like the way steph curry played in that finals and I didn't like how beaten down he was by the end of that finals. I was talking to somebody about this. I can't remember who. All these superstars that we've had over the years,

the guys who were the alpha dogs of the league, the best guys, they were all physically imposing. LeBron is indestructible. the guys have never seen anything like it then kobe hit a point um and i i'm not entirely positive kobe was ever the quote-unquote best guy but he was durable you know and as the playoffs went along like he didn't really wear down duncan same way now you can take the beating. Duncan didn't wear down. Shaq didn't wear

down. You go back to the 90s. Jordan didn't wear down. Hakeem didn't wear down. Bird, Magic, all those guys. Jordan. Curry's the only guy we've had who's the best player in the league who, it seems like a hundred games if you beat him

and you knock him around and you're knocking him down and he's coming around screens and somebody's shoving his ass and knocking him into the cameraman and they're hitting him. And it seemed like it affected him and it affected the way he played. And I keep going back to that ISO on Kevin Love with 35 seconds left where just take him to the hoop. I watched the warriors all season all he did all season was take take big slow guys off the dribble and get to the basket and either make a layup or get fouled make a three-point play and he was so beaten down that he just went hero ball and took a three and i don't know i i almost feel like the formula is out now for what

to do with him any contender he plays the teams are going to be beating the shit out of him so I think look I I'm not I'm not ready to attribute um huh I don't I think his disinclination I his disinclination to go to the hole was more mental to me than than physical the physical obviously had an impact on it because he showed, as the series went on, more and more of a disinclination to go to the hole. But I think that was a mental lapse at that moment in the game. How many Game 7s for the championship has he been in? It wasn't just that love moment, though.

It was the whole series. That's what I said, a growing disinclination. But one thing that we don't have an advantage. You just proved my point. That was my point, though. I think it was more mental than physical. But the thing that I think is interesting is he took a – no team has ever won 73 games.

They tried to manage his minutes during the regular season, but there were many games, probably in double digits, 10 games, 12 games, where they trotted him out in the fourth quarter, and he played meaningful minutes when, in sort of ordinary course, regular season

NBA circumstances, he stays on the bench. And I don't know if there's an advanced analytic that captures meaningful minutes, but I think he played, over the course of this season, as many meaningful minutes as any player has played in the history of the league. Oh, stop it. He's playing 34 minutes a game.

He got to rest like 44th quarters. I got it. That's right. Don't protect him. Don't protect him. He cost me thousands and thousands of dollars when they didn't win the title. He did. I know. I don't want you to protect him.

He owes me like $8,000. All I'm saying is the thesis is that they're not capable of making another legit run. And I think they're going to be a very different looking team with a different kind of approach than last year. You just put words in my mouth. I didn't say they weren't capable of making a run. Why are you putting words in my mouth? You said that they've been nixed. They've had the Russian cut.

They've been cut. They're not going back. That's what you said. I said I'm worried. I'm worried about them. I'm worried that they might have peaked. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they made the finals. I'm covering my bases both ways.

Oh, I see. So that's a classic Simmons backtrack. That's fine. I'm good with this. Yeah. That's a Simmons backtrack is what that was. No, I do think, though, I wonder if Bogut is ever going to be the same. Because I felt like he was teetering on the brink of just becoming the old center who physically couldn't do it anymore. And you watched him. It was a struggle for him to get up and down the court.

He has a lot of miles. He's had a lot of injuries. And they miss him for that 20 to 25 minutes a game. They're not going to have Azili. They might not have Barnes. Who knows how the Barnes thing plays out. They were extraordinarily healthy with Draymond, Clay, and Curry in the season last year. Extraordinary. All true.

All true. For two years, really. They're injury luck when you look at teams like oklahoma city like cleveland with kairi getting hurt in the 15 playoffs you go on down the line injuries are part of it and they just were pretty lucky so um yeah i have some concerns wait we have to uh talk about five four club for a second. 5-4 Club has you covered. They will provide styling advice and recommendations. They will make you a styling

profile and they'll deliver clothes to your door every month or so. Four style profiles. Casual, classic, forward, mix. They got shorts and button-ups when you need them. They got jackets and jeans when it gets colder. They have free shipping. Direct delivery to your doorstep and the clothes come every month or so.

And it's only $60 a month. And if you go to 5-4 Club and use promo code BS at sign up, you get 50% off your first package, 5-4 Club. By the way, for my TV show, I have a wardrobe stylist. I have somebody they pick out all these clothes and then they dress me in the clothes and then they kind of send me out there like a little boy. Can I talk about that?

Yeah, that's what 5-4 Club is. 5-4 Club is basically your wardrobe stylist. HBO Pay is my wardrobe stylist. You can just pay 5-4 Club and it's a lot cheaper. So I vote for 5-4 Club for normal people. What were you going to say?

Yeah, I like that. I like what you rolled with this past week. You look like a host of a TV show. That was a good look. Oh, I appreciate it. Yeah. We're trying not to...

I mean, it's a classic middle-aged white guy look. Yeah. I mean, you know. The half zip. That's me on a Wednesday. Yeah, that's guy look. Yeah. I mean, you know. The half zip. That's the uniform. Yeah, that's the uniform of the mid-40s white guys. The half zip.

It is. That's right. You know, it's been so much fun to do this show. It's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle. Trying to figure out what the format is. And we're trying stuff each week. It's going to take like 10 episodes. It's trial and error

like and you do the episode and you finish it and that's like I watch it Wednesday night you know watching it on your TV

is just different and you just notice different things you win the edit bay and we're watching I'm like why the hell did I start with the PD's thing

we should have just gone right to Cuban and Gladwell and I cause we had so much good content with them just made that three minutes longer you didn't even need the opening thing but in the moment you're like oh we got this and we got this we got five blocks and so but it's fun and it's you know and the content is there and now that the key is how do you structure it how do you put the right bells and whistles in but as long as we keep having interviews like the Cuban Gladwell thing,

I think we're in good shape. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the – I haven't had a chance to watch it. Have you put up the extra cuts yet? Yeah, we put up Cuban and Gladwell on PDs, and we put up the Bill Hader, the bonus speed round stuff. So it's a really fun show to do. It's spectacular. Yeah, it's a fun show to do.

I can't wait to hear Cuban on the PEDs because, you know, he's participating and he's helping fund a study on the effects of HGH and its recuperative effects. So I'm eager to hear his point of view on that. He talks about it. And so we have you go to either HBO Now or HBO Go and click on the episode, and we have the extra clips in the bottom. And it's also on demand. Like if you have Time Warner and those kind of things, I think they're on there. I think we put a couple on YouTube. But yeah, it's fun.

I mean, I was there when Kimmel launched that first year, and the show is obviously a million times different than now than it was that first six months this show i'm sure like by episode 20 we'll look back and be like oh my god i can't believe we did that but i think the bones of the show is here it's like interviews and yeah how much written stuff is going to be in there i'm not sure yet but it's been really fun everybody likes each other too it's like a fun show to work on so check it out next. Next, we have Joe Rogan because UFC 200 is a week from Saturday. So Joe Rogan is going to be on

next week as one of the guests. And we're going to talk about the evolution. I don't want to talk about the other one yet. Okay, great. The evolution

of MMA. UFC 200. Oh. Are you getting that? Wow. I mean, just for the momentousness of it. Is that a word?

Momentousness? I'm going to do it for the legacy of it. I'm not a huge MMA consumer. Your son's not into it yet, right? Not yet. He will be, though. I have a question for you. We got more free agency to talk about. What's your question?

Yeah, we do. I have a question for you. We got more free agency to talk about. What's your question? Yeah, we do. I have a question for you. Yeah. When is Dwight Howard visiting with Boston? That's not a true story. That's not happening. They're not signing Dwight Howard. They're just not. They could have had him in February. They're having a visit. They could have had him for David Lee's contract

and like nothing in February and they didn't want him. It's not happening. They're having a meeting. Why are they having a meeting? Probably to make the agent happy. Here's the way. I mean, you know, Boston just had all these picks in the draft

that they thought they might convert into something super duper. And you just had one of your writers make a couple observations around what Dwight might have left in the tank. I'm not saying that you instructed him, but on the writer.com, Jonathan Charks did a nice observation piece about how he was used last year in Houston, and maybe there's a little bit left in the tank for the old DH-12. I think on the right team, and it's not Boston, but I think there are certain teams that he would actually be good on.

He could still be an effective rim protector. What he really needs more than anything, and what he's never had, is to have an alpha dog teammate who's not also such an alpha dog that it rubs him the wrong way like him and hard and didn't get along him and kobe didn't get along kobe doesn't get along with it he never got along with anybody that's what made the farewell tour so comical uh he needs somebody i think he what he really needs is is has he ever played with a great point guard? No, right? I'm not.

No. I mean, it was supposed to be Steve Nash. Yeah, and Steve Nash broke down. He needs somebody who is almost like a boxing trainer. Who was the point guard on that Magic team that went to the finals? It was Jameer Nelson and Rafer Austin. He's never had a real point guard. He needs somebody who's just going to be kind of building him up and just like, hey, man, you keep blocking shots.

You keep protecting the rim. You keep getting me rebounds. I'm going to set you up on the other end. And not as a half-court player, but in pick and rolls, just somebody that is always taking care of him, making sure he's involved enough. Harden was terrible at that. You know, Dwight would have these games where he'd shoot two times and a half.

I don't think Dwight's done. I don't think he's one of the best five players in the league anymore, but I think he's worth a flyer. And I actually think if he went to Portland, I think that would be a good move for him to have those two guards with him. And I think Lillard and McCollum, who are both shooters, but Lillard's a little bit of a quiet leader, and I think that would be a nice fit for him.

I think there's a lot of terrible fits for him. And all those nurturing fans in Portland. Well, that part might not be as good of a fit. Well, no, they'll give him a chance until the first time that he farts in their face. I'll tell you another team that's not a bad fit for him. You're going to be so angry. The Wizards. You know what?

How about this? They have six players on the contract right now. I'm talking myself into it a little bit. Yeah, why wouldn't you? I've been dramatically against it. I mean, violently against it. And I'm on record as being so. At this point, what Grunfeld has done to my will, my basketball will, my NBA basketball will,

I'm so beaten down right now, I countenance the idea of Dwight Howard here in Washington. I could talk myself into John Wall and Dwight Howard and Brad Beal out on the perimeter. I could talk myself into it. John Wall would be by far, unquestionably the best point guard he's ever played with, ever. He's so far leaps and bounds ahead of any point guard he's ever played with. And John Wall will run and he'll tell Dwight to get his ass and run down the floor. He will try to set him up. He will build him up. He's a great guy.

I like John Wall. He's a good character guy. And I think he would build him up. I think it's conceivable. The thing I'd be concerned with is that would be two guys who are making so much more money than Wall. They just signed Brad Beal

to a contract that's worth $40 million more than John Wall. I know. I really felt bad for you when I saw that Beal contract. I know they had to do it and I know we divided in half and the whole thing but Jesus mother of God

I don't even know if he can play 10 straight games it's the most almost bullets contract ever it's like the ghost of Abe Poland

continues to hover over the entire Abe Poland is up in heaven giving that that contract a standing ovation right now

what if they had the press conference and Abe Poland came back from the dead? He's like, no, he's here. He's actually the one that did the contract. He still owns the team. It is amazing. Like, how many of those have you had? You had Gilbert. You had Jawan.

Antoine Jameson. C-Web. What else? It goes all the way back. Larry Hughes. Oh, man. They let Larry Hughes leave, actually. Oh, that's right.

Yeah, you let Larry Hughes. That was one they didn't do. You've had so many, I can't keep track. Googs? Did you ever pick Googs? You think you did? No, Googs was properly paid. Was he?

I don't remember. We had Mark Price at a max contract for two years. He had plantar fasciitis and never came back. I think he played three games. Do you think now that the Cleveland Cavaliers have won the title, the Wizards are in the conversation for most tortured NBA fan base? You couldn't even get a meeting with Kevin Durant, who's from the DMV. He didn't want to meet with you.

I don't mean to laugh at it, but... They didn't make the playoffs last year. They were supposed to have turned the corner, and then they turned the corner and drove straight into a ditch. By the way, all this talk, I have an appreciation for Jared Dudley and his basketball IQ

and his leadership qualities. He's fat and can't play basketball. I watched it 82 games this season. He came back too early. He was out of shape. It hurt my eyes to watch Jared Dudley in a Washington uniform. I mean, I hate to go in on the guy because he's obviously such a great presence, locker room presence. But the market, I see the three or four teams want him, and in the right circumstances,

he can come in and be a helpful asset. But the problem with Washington last year was a dearth of talent. They sucked. They had more players that sucked at basketball than were good at basketball. So I would say the final four for most tortured NBA team, Sacramento obviously immediately has to be mentioned. And I think the Phoenix Suns do too. Phoenix has been relevant in a really competitive way over and over again with different best guys. And it's never worked out.

And then they rebuild. And then all of a sudden they have good guys again and then that doesn't work out and that's been going on for 45 years I would say they made a finals though didn't they make a western conference finals yeah well you won

an NBA title granted it happened when you were like 10 I'll take getting to a conference finals at this point so I think it's Washington, Sacramento Phoenix when you were like 10. No, I'll take getting to a conference finals at this point. So I think it's Washington, Sacramento, Phoenix, and a team that never gets mentioned but has really been around long enough that they deserve to be in the conversation, the Atlanta Hawks.

They've been around for almost 50 years. I don't think they've played, they haven't played in a finals. They did when they were in St. Louis. They won the title, but that was 1958. So I think that would be my top four. I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody. Yeah, I'm not prepared to let the T-Wolves into that conversation.

No, nobody who's 20. Yeah, no, no. You have to be in the league for 30 years to be in the conversation. The Bucs are on the outside of that conversation. No, nobody who's 20... Yeah, no. No, you have to be in the league for 30 years to be in the conversation. The Bucs are on the outside of that conversation. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. They won in 71.

Yeah. During my lifetime, they've won one. Yeah, the Bucs are in there. The same way that the Bullets won one during my lifetime. But I don't... All due respect to the Bucs fans,

if they'd moved to Seattle, I don't think that would have been a traumatizing thing the way it would have been if the Suns left Phoenix or the Kings left Sacramento or even the Wizards left Washington. I think Milwaukee fans would have been bummed out, but then they would have been like,

well, we still have the Packers, and we still have Marquette, and we still have Wisconsin, and we still have the Brewers. We'll be fine. We're sad, but we'll be fine. If the Kings left Sacramento, it would have been one of the all-time traumas. They basically, it's like Hartford Whalers on steroids. Yes. So anyway.

The city's identity derives from the team we have a couple more free agent things yeah we do actually before we do that let's talk about our friends at squarespace who make it easy to build beautiful websites without breaking a sweat regardless of skill level no coding needed not only does squarespace provide easy to use tools squarespace's state-of-the-art technology ensures security and stability. Millions of people and some of the most respected brands in the world, including Joe House,

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and you get $10 off your first purchase. Joe House is one of the hosts of Shack House, presented by Callaway, our golf podcast. And he has a Squarespace site called, what is it called? Housefromdc.com. Are you okay with the fact that Danny Chow has really taken the House Seats corner and just gone another level. You're kind of washed up

I feel like. This has been going on for some time. No, House Seats isn't even on the internet anymore because ESPN killed all the Grantland videos. I've been able to find it a couple times. Yeah, you gotta try to find

You gotta go to the dark web to find House Seats times. Yeah, you gotta, it's like you gotta, it's trying to find. You gotta go to the dark web, but you can find it. Yeah, you gotta go to the dark web to find House Seats 3. It's bullshit. It's one of the worst things ESPN did, along with 170 other worst things.

But Danny Chow's just flat out on your corner. I have more food conversations with Danny Chow than I do with you, and it hurts my feelings. He works in your office. You see him every day.

I'll just tell you how I feel. And by the way, real knows real, Danny is a hell of a competitor. I mean, he gets after it, and he's got diverse tastes. He's an accomplished foodie with a wonderful palate. All respect to Danny. He's not afraid of you. Anytime he wants to sit down and have some Chick-fil-A, though, we can do it. He's not afraid of you.

He's not. I'll tell you another thing. You know what? What? I'm not afraid of him. I'm still looking for Chow Eats. Yeah, well, it might happen. Google Chow Eats and see what comes up.

It might happen. Danny and I are going to open a Vietnamese restaurant in eight years. We've never talked about opening a restaurant. This is what Danny Chow means to my life now. You've just lost your corner. You're sitting around, you're playing golf, you're playing with your new All Blacks that you got from Callaway, and Danny Chow just took your food corner. They are wonderful, by the way. I played withaway. And Danny Chow just took your food corner. They are wonderful, by the way.

I played with them today. Danny Chow took your food corner. You didn't invite them to our sugarfish meal when I was out there three weeks ago, a month ago. How much sugarfish did I eat? Every tuna from everybody else's box, I ate it. You did eat a lot of sushi. I ate my own, and I ate all the extras. You ate a lot of sushi.

Wait, we have to talk a little more free agency. Miami. There was a moment last night, June 30th, that it really seemed like it was going to a dark place for Miami. There were a lot of Wade's leaving rumors. It seemed like Whiteside was heading to the Mavs. And they don't have a first-round pick next year because they traded it in the Dragic trade.

There was about three hours where I was like, wow, Miami's done. And then they get Whiteside back. I'm sure the Bucs are going after Dwayne Wade, but I think he's going to go back to Miami, and all of a sudden Miami will be fine. But were you surprised that Whiteside stayed? No. I think that they made a very effective presentation to him to Miami and all of a sudden Miami will be fine. But were you surprised that Whiteside stayed? No,

I think that they made a very effective presentation to him that, um, his, his best NBA opportunity is at the place where he really blossomed. You know, it's, it's Riley, it's,

uh, Spolstra, it's the system, you know, you, you've been all around all these places, Hasan. You've toured the world as a professional basketball

player. It wasn't until you arrived here and we gave you the opportunity and gave you the direction to help you become the best you could be. Stay here. Was it a four-year deal or a five-year deal? What was was it Tate

it's a five year deal it's a five year now it's a five 98 but it's still if they get Durant yeah there's some chicanery involved

because they're still going to make a Durant run and if they get him then they're going to tweak the white side deal a little bit their problem I actually I was listening

to my old friend Dan Levitard yeah I don't think ESPN Talent from what I heard ESPN Talent are not allowed to mention me but I'm allowed to mention ESPN Talent and he was making a very compelling case as I was driving to get my

coffee this morning about how Whiteside and Wade have teamed up to screw Miami over on this Durant thing and Whiteside's like I want to know on July 1st where I'm going. And, you know, if everyone was on the same page, they would be like, all right, we'll go for Durant first and we'll take care of you guys.

Way to Whiteside. We're like, no, you're going to take care of us now. We'll take that check right now. I'll sign it today. That's fine. Miami's not serious contenders. They're hamstrung because they don't know whether or not Chris Bosh can play professional basketball for them. I know.

And until they have that answer, what the direction of the team is, what the direction of the franchise is, it hinges on that. He's a top 20 talent in the league and makes them super dangerous when he's playing and firing on all edges. The portion of the season he played this year, that was him playing as well as he played was a big part of why we loved the over this past season for Miami. And they managed to hit the over, notwithstanding his injury.

But he was awesome for about, I don't know, 40-some games for them. And if he's able to come back and play at that high level, that's a really interesting team and an attractive team in the East. They could still get somebody to round out that roster. But if he can't play, what are they doing? And it's even more complicated with that because there's all kinds of insurance stuff. It's a sad situation.

I also love Chris Bosh. I don't want Chris Bosh to start playing basketball. I want him to stay healthy. He's got fame. I hope they – I just think they're being super careful. My guess would be that he's going to play again. And I know he wants to play again. I'm rooting for it.

He was great last year. Him and Dragic had a little thing going. They had a little something in the kitchen. A little chemistry was cooking up. And then they didn't really get to see it come to fruition because Bosh went down with the Klotz again. I have some updates. It's now 11-20 Pacific time. Jared Bayless has signed with Philly for three years, $27 million.

Congratulations, Philly. And Andre Iguodala, four minutes ago, tweeted, Nah, B. Four letters. N-A-H space B. So there you go. Nah, B. Nah, B.

Nah, B. What does that mean? What's nah, B mean, Tate? I don't know. so there you go nah B nah B nah B what does that mean what's nah B mean Tate I'm not I don't know it sounds like someone was coming at him

and he was like nah man it's not happening could have been could have been a mistaken DM yeah hey Iggy

should I come over should I come over I know the room number nah B no it might have been a DM gone wrong do you think that they should could have been do No, it might have been a DM gone wrong. Do you think that they should have?

DM gone wrong. Could have been. Do you think it would have been funnier if Kevin, first of all, it was hilarious that Kevin Durant had all his meetings in the Hamptons. Do you think it would have been

funnier if he had all of his meetings at locations of Showtime shows that are in the Hamptons? Like he could have, he could have met the Warriors at the Crab Shack place

that Allison worked at in the affair. Would you have done that if you were Durant? Or he could have had the Warriors at the Crab Shack place that Allison worked at in the affair. Would you have done that if you were Durant? Or he could have had another meeting at the ranch where the guy from Dawson's Creek and all his brothers lived. And he could have had a meeting at the Billions House. And he just could have done the Wall Street Michael Douglas House. I would have really owned it. Own the Hamptons.

Have fun with it, KD. And why are you making people go to the Hamptons, by the way? How about New York City? Because you just need to get away a little bit. It's beautiful right now. It's a Fourth of July weekend. He's enjoying his weekend at the beach. He can't go to the beach for the weekend?

My new rule is the next time I'm going to be courted by anybody, it could even be somebody delivering me a pizza, I'm going to make it as difficult for them as possible to travel to come see me, just as a power play. I think Kevin Durant has laid the staple, has laid it down, laid the gauntlet down. The Hamptons. It's not that hard to get to the Hamptons. That's kind of hard. Especially July 4th weekend. It's not New York City, but still.

What's harder than the Hamptons on July 4th weekend? They just fly in, the helicopter, whatever. I don't like it. It's a rich people. It's a rich guy move. That's what it was. It's a rich guy move. I think he saw billions, and I think he got inspired by the Damien Lewis character. He is. He's a rich guy move. That's what it was. It's a rich guy move. I think he saw billions, and I think he got inspired by the Damien Lewis character.

He is. He's a rich guy. He's going to be an even richer guy soon. I have another question for you. Yeah. What in the hell is going on in Indiana? I like the Al Jefferson end of the career move. Wasn't that cheap?

They got Jeff Teague, who was hurt last year. I like Jeff Teague. I like the Thaddeus Young trade was hijacking. How do you get him for the 20th pick? So my question is, if you have all of this up your sleeve, you have a game plan, you have a blueprint for what you want to do. Why did they kick Frank Vogel to the curb? Because he –

I like this team with Frank Vogel as the coach. Who's their coach now? I don't even remember. Nate McMillan. Oh. Yeah, the Portland fans had a good laugh about that one. I think Larry Legend got tired of watching Frank coach offensively. No matter who the players they got offensively,

he just, there's just no flows. The clogged toilet offense. I think he just got tired of it. The legend didn't like when they blew that Toronto game. I think it was like game five. They blew like a 15 point lead and Frank Vogel was just staying on the sidelines watching it.

I like Frank Vogel, but he didn't do a good job in that series. My opinion. I, I disagree. He, they, Indiana had the best player in that series and Paul George, but he didn't do a good job in that series, in my opinion. I disagree. Indiana had the best player in that series in Paul George, but otherwise nobody else really stepped up. You know who didn't step up?

The backup point guard, George Hill. You know what's amazing? It's come out now. I'd heard this before, but now I think people are reporting it, that Toronto turned down Serge Ibaka for the ninth pick, Patrick Patterson, Corey Joseph, and Norman Powell. Toronto turned that down. I agree with that.

I would have turned that down too. Patrick Patterson and Corey Joseph are good, and Patrick Patterson especially is young. I would have traded for Serge. You can't trade the years right now. Because they could have paid Serge. I don't think Orlando can keep Serge. I think Toronto can keep Serge.

And you put Kyle Lowry, DeRozan, Serge, Jonas, Damari Carroll. That's a starting five. I like that starting five. I would have done it. Patrick Patterson's fine. I think he gets a little too much smoke blowing up his ass. Oh, he's a stretch four. You know who's underrated? Patrick Patterson. Serge Ibaka's better than Patrick Patterson's fine. I think he gets a little too much smoke blowing up his ass. Oh, he's a stretch four. You know who's underrated?

Patrick Patterson. Serge Ibaka's better than Patrick Patterson. Come on. Get the fuck out of here. I don't disagree with that. But the Corey Joseph part, Corey Joseph was huge for them. Corey Joseph, by the way, was a target of my Washington Almost Bullets last offseason. One of the many failed.

Great. That's certainly a good sign. Well, no, this is the point I'm getting at. We had no backup point guard here all season long, which could have been helpful because my boy Johnny Wall needed knee surgery after the beating that he took. He played hurt all season long. Anyway.

Corey Joseph's good. I think I'm fine. The price was too high for what OKC was asking for in that deal, as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking at the Western contenders. The Clips haven't done anything yet. Jamal Crawford's got to be watching these numbers and just having a heart attack. Because he's been kind of slightly underpaid his entire career. You can make a case if Jeremy Lin's worth three years 36,

Crawford's got to be worth three years 45? Three years 48 for a contender? Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. And here's the other one. Yeah. The other sneaky one is Austin Rivers.

Nice. If Jared Bayless is worth three for 27, what's Austin Rivers worth? He actually had some moments last season. He's only like 23 years old. Three for 24. And where does Rondo go? That's the other thing I'm interested in. Rondo and Dwight Howard are kind of giant X factors if theyors. If they just sign one-year deals with teams to...

You know? Rondo to the Nets was the most Netsiest thing to happen, but Lynn wants that starting job, and they're going to give it to him. Well, I've been monitoring the Nets because... There's a lot of rumors about them overpaying

Alan Crabb, who's an unrestricted free agent. We have their pick next year, as you know, as I talk about on every podcast. There's a lot of rumors about them overpaying Alan Crabb, who's an unrestricted free agent. We have their pick next year, as you know, as I talk about on every podcast. Next year's draft is incredible. Nobody can even agree who's the best franchise guy in next year's draft. But there's like five guys that are potentially either franchise guys or multiple all-stars. Chad Ford said that there could be as many as 12 freshmen in the lottery next year. And he said, if you combine the two drafts,

the Ben Simmons draft and then this upcoming one, that Simmons and Ingram are the only two people that would have gone in the top 10 of this 2017 draft. So I want the Nets to spend all of their money on players who aren't all-stars like Jeremy Lin would be one of my goals for them, the Nets. Just keep doing it. Keep getting these guys that are not quite kind of tweener starters, but not totally.

More of them, please. Well, I teased you about Dwight Howard to the Celtics. What are the Celtics going to do? Well, they want Al Horford. Okay. So does OKC. Al Horford's not signing with OKC. That's not happening.

Why not? Isn't he a perfect replacement for Ibaka? Would you say sign and trade? What is it? Sign and trade? Like, what is it? Sign-in trade? I don't know. Can't they just sign him? I don't think so.

Not if they're getting Durant. But I think the Celtics, their dream scenario was Horford and Durant. Their other dream scenario is just sign Horford now and wait for Durant a year. If you're a Celtics fan, you should be rooting for Durant to go back to OKC for one year. Is the dream scenario is just sign Horford now and wait for Durant a year. If you're a Celtics fan, you should be rooting for Durant to go back to OKC for one year is the dream scenario. Him going to Golden State for five years, the shit would have obviously... And you're content

to keep spinning your wheels without a guy that can score inside the last five minutes of basketball games? I have Isaiah Thomas. What are you talking about? He's fine. What's wrong with him? We need rebounders. Yeah, that's true. You do. Do you know who's a good

rebounder? Dwight Howard. House, we're gonna... I want to go through the Lakers roster in a second. But first, it's Fourth of July weekend and you love meat. We talked about that earlier earlier I sure do Everyone knows summer is all about the meat

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to get 15% off. Again, it's carnivoreclub.co and use the promo code BS. You get 15% off. Again, it's carnivoreclub.co and make sure to use the promo code BS. Speaking of smoked meats, the Lakers. Wow. So they got Mozgov, Julius Randle,

Jordan Clarkson, D'Angelo Russell, Brandon Ingram, Evan Turner? They keep talking about it. Has it happened? Ryan Kelly. Larry Nance Jr. Larry Nance Jr. Have they waived Nick Young yet? No, they still have Nick Young. And I think Philly gets their draft pick if it falls out of the top three. Did you say Roy Hibbert?

I think he's still on that team. No, I think they got rid of Roy Hibbert. Oh, they did. I just want to say that I like Evan Turner, and I hope he comes to LA, and I'm going to force him to come to our whole ringer setup and do podcasts with us. And he was a good Celtic, and I liked him. If he goes to the Lakers, it's a bad fit. People need to watch basketball when they sign these players.

Evan Turner needs to have the ball in his hands. The reason he succeeded for the Celtics was because we could play our guards off the ball and he was basically the point forward. You can't have him on a team with D'Angelo Russell and Jordan Clarkson on it because all those dudes are going to do is dribble and he's bad when he has to stand on the side and watch

other people dribble. That's not why he's good. I want him to go to the Knicks. The Knicks would have been the right team for him. Lakers, no. Well, they still need a replacement for Aflalo. And Evan Turner would be a perfect replacement for Aflalo. I thought Aflalo, I thought he was still there. How long is that deal?

He is still there, but everybody keeps talking about coming over. Eric Gordon's supposed to be the replacement for him. I feel like he might be an unrestricted free agent. I'm not positive. No, Tate, will you look that up? I think a follow,

I thought he signed like a four-year deal. What a weird free agency. Why do they need a replacement for a follow? So the big, the big piece,

yeah, he's still in the next. I think, I think he's signing, he has like two more years left. So the big dominoes to drop right now

are Chandler Parsons, who I wouldn't touch. I think that guy's got an effed up knee. I'm going to go near that guy for big money. I'll do respect to Chandler. I'm looking right now. Flalo's a free agent, by the way. Flalo is a free agent. Well, he signed a two-year deal, right?

So maybe team option, they got rid of him. Okay, so Flalo's out. I kind of like a Flalo. The Bulls are looking at him. Conley? Joaquin Noah's going to the Knicks, it sounds like, so he's out. Bazemore? Yeah, Bazemore's going to get $20 million from somebody.

My guess would be the Rockets. I thought that made a lot of sense to me when I heard the Rockets were going after him. I like Bazemore, by the way. Me too. He's a very Rockets kind of player, too. Yeah. Like, three years ago, if they signed him for $40 million for four years,

I would have been like, all right. You know, like in that kind of Trevor Ariza type range. Now you just have to double it because the cap went crazy. So, yeah, those are the big dominos. Is Biambo still out there? BizBak, he's 24, we think. He's 34. He's 24 or maybe a little bit older.

This is going to be the great scandal of the next 10 years, I think. No, we already have it. I can't tell you how much ThonMaker Reddit I've been reading over the last week. I don't know what's true and what's not true, but this is like E60 and Outside the Lines and those in Real Sports, all those kind of shows, and they do these things, and they're always interesting. My number one draft pick for all of those shows for a story

is to figure out once and for all how well Thonmaker is. Let's just figure it out. Use all the E60 resources we have to figure this out. Use real sports. Do whatever we need to do. Because he might be like 25. Or he might be 19. I don't know what to believe.

I don't think it's going to be possible. Wasn't he born in the Sudan? Born in Sudan. Isn't there a way to take somebody's bone marrow or something And figure out how old they are Why don't we have this science yet How hard is this Dude we can't predict the weather from one day to the next

We were in the ringer office Because we've been talking about it And then I went and I looked up The mixtapes of him from like 2011 When he was in the 8th grade It doesn't really It just didn't look like an 8th grad like 2011 when he was in the 8th grade it doesn't really it just didn't look like an 8th grader but maybe he was

I don't know what to believe if I'm a Milwaukee fan I would not be happy I don't discount that he was definitely in the 8th grade but he did not look like a 13 year old if I'm a Milwaukee fan

and my team took Thonmaker over Sabonis, who's going to be good, and then it turned out that Thonmaker was older than Sabonis, I'd have a hard time dealing with that. Just throwing that out. Anything else, Hass? We got to go.

Yeah, we got to go. I think we've done it keep your eyes open for a woge bomb we didn't have I kept I was in my bomb shelter waiting for the woge bombs

it never happened yeah alright so thanks to thanks to Carnivore Club thanks to 5-4 Club they have you covered with Stylin' Vice

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if you're too lazy to go click theringer dot com uh and don't forget any given wednesday new show airing next wednesday 10 p.m hbo the third one it has not been canceled yet good times uh tay frazier enjoy the weekend good luck on the durant chase Joe House, enjoy the barbecues. Yeah, look, a reminder to everybody, we're going to have another Shack Hose in two weeks, not this week. We're going to have a British Open preview the week of the British Open. And there might be some gambling suggestions advanced in that conversation. All right, House, next time we talk, one of us will be consoling the other about Dwight Howard. My guess is I'll be consoling you. I might be happy.

All right, thanks. Anytime y'all want to see me again, rewind this track right here. Close your eyes. Pitch and be rolling.