The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 115: Johnny Bananas

Episode Date: August 5, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by six-time MTV 'Challenge' champion Johnny Bananas to discuss his decision to get revenge against Sarah (6:00), T.J. and the crew's reaction to his money grab (17:00), NBA comparisons to 'Challenge' stars (28:00), mastering the first-night toast (48:00), and Bananas's next challenge: his own show (1:04:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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TheRinger.com is another one that we are brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network and my new HBO show, Any Given Wednesday. New episodes every Wednesday night at 10 p.m. Two more in August. Then we go on a little break. You can watch the first six episodes and every bonus clip on HBO Now, HBO Go, and HBO On Demand. We did a great interview with Caitlyn Jenner this week

that we had so much good stuff, we didn't even know what to do. We cut 15 minutes of it for the show. And I think we have like another 16 to 18 minutes of, of extra content that we're putting on HBO now and HBO on demand. It's excellent. If you liked what you saw on the TV show, I would encourage you to watch this.

What a great guest. What a great story to talk to. Finally, we're selling merchandise for the ringer and we're helping raise money for our friends at charitywater.org. The link is right on our website. It says merch because we needed the space for the other links, but it's merch. You can buy hoodies, T-shirts, sweatshirts, you name it.

Shout out to Scott Harrison. All right. It's time. Johnny Bananas, let's do it. Wow. So on my HBO show this week, I interviewed 1976's greatest athlete, Caitlyn Jenner. And now 2016's greatest athlete. I've been saying you were the world's greatest athletes for years.

You did it again. You're ahead of your time, my friend, Bill. What is this, like six titles? It is. If there's one thing that you could be credited with it's about being ahead of the ahead of the curve bro you just know you're like a fortune teller man if if this ever doesn't this gig doesn't work out for you man you could you can make a living telling fortunes man could you bet on the challenge was that could i've gone to vegas to bet on this you maybe but the problem is there's spoilers out i mean there's spoilers that leak while we're still

on location yeah you have too many yeah i mean dude i remember the night that this ended uh the the challenge ended i remember going back to my hotel and the three final teams and the winners were already on vevmo or one of those crazy gossip sites so there's a mole there's a mole buried deep inside but you want to know what was not released was what went down at the end that was the one thing that it got out late in the game but that was a pretty well kept secret so so to recap challenge you get partners then there's some wrinkle at the end and the final challenge we're keeping track of the of the checkpoints and whoever's ahead they can just keep all the money.

So $275,000 at stake. You have Sarah. You have a history with Sarah. Sarah stabbed you in the back. It was one of the only times Bananas didn't see it coming. I did not see it coming, man. Stabs you in the back, your friend. I actually, it's one of the few times I've disagreed with you in Challenge history.

You took it really personally. When deep down you knew it was the right move and a perfect move, and you respected the hell out of it. did after after the fact in the moment you just hurt in the moment you know what it was is because i the cardinal the cardinal rule and the challenge and in in you know i think in game shows in general is to not let your personal feelings and reality mix with the game that you're playing and yet that's why survivor and the challenge are the best because it always ends up interfering it's so hard and it's like i almost needed to like you know practice what i preach because i've told that to so many people like it's just a game you know what i mean and you're here

to win and you're here to make money so when happened to me, and it really did feel like a personal stab back then. You got a little whiny. I did. And you know what? And it took me a while. It took me a while to come to terms with it. But in my defense, the way that I saw it was there are people that I do the show with. And Sarah's one of the few girls that I've actually had an ongoing alliance with, but like with Kenny and Evan and Leroy and Mark, I mean, going back to when I used

to, you know, work with Derek, there's certain people that when you're friends outside of the show, when your friendship transcends the show and you're actually friends on the outside of the show, what happens on the show tends to spill into your, your real life. And I really did consider Sarah before X's a really close friend of mine. Now, we didn't talk all the time and I didn't call her on her birthday. But out of all the girls on the show, she's someone that I considered. I hung out with her outside of the show, which is very rare for me. So when that happened, and I didn't see it coming.

It was a total blindside. Had I known that she was plotting against me from the beginning of the show, had I had any inkling that that was plotting against me from the beginning of the show had i had any inkling that that was happening i could have like if if a ct or a wes screws me over you more power to you man you know because i knew it was coming i know which side you're on you know which side i'm on it's never a surprise with her and with the with what she had preached for so many years about how she played the game and she plays it straight up. And for, for that to happen with her, the way that it did, it was just, it was, it was a slap in the face.

But like you said, I mean, it, I had to take my own medicine. I had to take my own medicine and I'm like, you know what? This is where we're at now. And this is, and, and she rewrote the rules of the game. You were still bitter about it when you, when you partnered up again with her this season. Yeah, I was still bitter about it. When you partnered up again with her this season, you were still mad about it. We hadn't spoken in two years.

So, I mean, the way that I feel about stuff is... You literally hadn't spoken in two years? No, I had not spoken a word in two years. What would happen if you saw her at weird MTV events? We didn't. I mean, I didn't... Here's the thing is, after exes, she was like, I'm done. I'm getting married.

I'm having babies. I'm getting a real job, which I thought was kind of like a backhanded slap at a lot of people who were still doing the show yeah that does feel a little little snotty you know I'm moving on my life I'm gonna get real and she had kids no oh but she didn't she got married um and then she ends up coming back I knew what the format was before we came on the show, but I had figured since she made this grand exit and she's like, I'm done doing challenges that there's no way she'll be my partner. I found out the day before we left for Mexico that she was my partner and I was pretty sick about it, dude. I mean, it really was.

I think what really kind of boggled my mind the most was I and I had said this in the past. If she's ever back on another challenge, I'm like, you know, all bets are off. You know, it's, she's going to be the first one that's that, that, that I'm setting my gun sights on. Then when I find out, well, we're going to be partners now, not only am I not gonna be able to touch her, but then there's a possibility that I'm going to win her money at the end. Yeah. It just, it just didn't sit right with me. But, um, you know, but then you're going along. Then you find out about the wrinkle. And I was watching with my wife.

I'm like, oh, he's this. I know bananas. I've been with bananas for 10 years of challenges. He's not splitting the money with her. He's going to blindside her. And then you wouldn't talk about it. You're doing the challenge with her. And she's like, hey, what are we going to do?

Deflect, bro. Deflect, deflect, man. She had to have known it was coming at some point.'s the deal if just to backtrack a little bit when we first came on to the challenge obviously there was like this i i think about the show a lot of times from from a production standpoint as well yeah i really didn't have that much animosity still i really didn't i had kind of gotten over a lot of it i'm like you know what whatever we're here we're gonna compete we're gonna do well but for the sake of the show i'm like how great would this story arc be if we start off as mortal enemies we can't even get our shit together i'm dropping her off apparatuses halfway through the

show you know uh we start working well together we kind of have this coming to jesus moment and then we just murder the show and ride off into the sunset and that is pretty much exactly how it went and then you found out about the wrinkle and you're like which is something that we didn't know about everyone's like oh you didn't mean anything you said to her throughout the show and it's like well i didn't i didn't know about this wrinkle i didn't know about this curveball this is something that they dropped on us at the last minute which might i say i've done a lot of reality television is the most diabolical plot twist i've ever seen ever on a challenge or any other show and also a really smart challenge because the weird the irony of the challenge is that the final episode is usually the

worst episode of the challenge because you kind of know who's going to win and there's no drama and then yeah everybody knew i mean everyone who's going to win the the out of us teams they knew we were going to take first but nobody knew who was going to win out of us teams. They knew we were going to take first, but nobody knew who was going to come out with most points. And nobody knew what the respective person was going to do. So when we came into it, you know, when we got to the final and when he dropped this bomb on us, at first, I mean, and you see it, it's so funny. The other two teams, when they find out, they're kind of like, oh, wow, it's crazy. And both me and Sarah are both staring at the ground. And I think the reason why is because the same thing was going through both of our heads,

which was, I'm going to take the money from this person. You know what I mean? So you think Sarah would have done it too? One thousand percent, Sarah would have taken the money. I agree. And it's so easy for her fans and for her to say, no, I wouldn't have. But you have already. You've done it in the past

we already have a fractured relationship people want to make it out like oh but you guys became such good friends that was television and what happened what you see on tv and these relationships that develop nine times out of ten don't transfer through into real life so yeah we i would say 59 times out of 60 there you go go. 99 times out of 100. Somewhere between 59 out of 60 and 99 out of 100. I agree. I wasn't shocked that Nani's cousin and that little tiny dude didn't make it. I was like, oh my God, they didn't make it?

I can't believe it. How is that possible? I thought they were going to get married. These kids, man, they really set the bar high. That was doom from the beginning. that was doomed from the from the from the beginning it was doomed from the casting you can't listen for girls if general rule of thumb if a dude's more emotional than you are and cries more than you it's probably not gonna work yeah so uh but but yeah so going back to this twist it was you know it was i knew she knew

and i think this was this was this is what think this was the analogy that I used. Usually, if you're in a relationship and someone's real suspicious of what you're doing, who are you with, what are you doing, blowing you up all the time, 59 times out of 60, that means that they're doing some shady shit. Oh, I like what you're thinking. No, and they feel insecure about what they're doing so it makes them in the past i mean whatever i'm a dude i've been you know i've done some shady shit in the past when i was the most suspicious of exes that i've been with was when i was kind

of being a creep on the side you know right because because if you you automatically put you know you start suspecting them and stuff you know so when sarah then in the final kept on asking me about what are we going to do are we going to split it you know i have we both have one point we're tied and the more she did that the more it solidified this thought in my head that this girl's gonna screw me and i gotta do everything i can to make sure that that does not happen and she made the fatal mistake of letting you do the overnight stand on the thing you never can you split that um there was no splitting what it was because we didn't know And she made the fatal mistake of letting you do the overnight stand on the thing. Never. Can you split that? Can you split a half point?

There was no splitting what it was because we didn't know what the time was. Yeah. We had no concept of time. I was like, I will stand on this motherfucker for two days if I have to. You know? And it was kind of like one of those things where it's like, oh yeah, sir, you're not feeling well. You should probably go rest.

Yeah. Let me, I'll take, listen, I'll do the tough thing. I'll stand up. You get your rest for tomorrow knowing that these two points were going to be huge because going into that night i had no idea where we stood point point wise you know so uh i mean you know so then you get there you win yeah everybody the other two teams split the money. Which I think made my decision look even more, you know, just earth shattering was the fact that I was the only one that did it. You take all the money.

She gets zero dollars. They even put the graphic up. Sarah, zero dollars. That just goes to show what MTV thinks about our viewing audience where it's like, all right, you guys can't grasp this concept. So we're going to draw a picture for you. for my son it was helpful it helped him right he got what was tj's reaction that was really all i cared about more than anything we know that tj hates quitters does he hate taking all the money what was his feeling listen man there have been a lot of lonely lonely times in my life okay on challenges too i mean that's one of the things that happens

to you on the challenges if you get put i like to call you get put on an island you know if you make a bad move where the entire house will turn on you like that not just cast members not just tj but all 50 people on production i mean after i said what i said it was disgusted by you i wouldn't say disgusted but i think they they were all absolutely dumbfounded it's like one of those like really like moments where it was like we knew he was capable of this all right but we didn't think he would ever do it it was like one of those things where have you ever seen like movies where it's like everything sound like the guy's sitting like a pen falls out of his mouth like it was like one of those

like one of the head producers even said after they know every they usually know just based on the interviews and the story notes every twist and turn that's coming i mean they know they could plan for it they had no idea he even told me after he goes you know what we thought you might but for one of the first this is one of the first times that we had absolutely no idea which way you were going which made it that much better it's like if even production doesn't know my cousin didn't know nobody knew i was gonna ask your cousin didn't know no i didn't tell anybody because i didn't want it to somehow get back to her we didn't know until we got to tj who had the most points so the last thing that i wanted was for her to know that i had this you know which

way i was leaning and that's probably what i was going to do because then if she found out and then there's some plot twist where, because in all honesty, it would have been made just as great a television if she would have won and screwed me over. It really would have. I think you should have whispered to her before it came to you. Like we're fine.

We're fine. Don't worry. And then done it. All right. So that's kind. Did you see what Devin did? How Devin kind of like Okie doke Cheyenne got her kind of lean in one way. And it was like,

but we're going to split it. Sarah told me right before she goes all right bananas listen if you want she goes go up there and make a speech and kind of like convince people that you're gonna that you're actually gonna take the money and we'll like fool them i'll be like i was like all right sarah great idea a great idea but i'm gonna take this one step further i'm actually gonna do it so um so you did it. Dead silence. Dead silence. Is TJ like... Alone on a mountain.

I was just a banana alone on a mountain. Is TJ like a disapproving dad look? What's the look on his face? That was the... It was a very, very, very disappointed look in his eye. Really? But I don't know if that was... The thing is, TJ's very difficult to read.

He's very stoic most of the time. You never know what's going on in that guy's head you know one time if somebody quits that's it that's like his that's his red hot button right there for sure I mean TJ hates quitters really hates quitters

I didn't know I mean I couldn't tell I don't I think if anyone though could have understood the scenario it would have it would have been him you know what I mean because I really do felt like I really do feel like with what happened on X's and I know everyone gives me shit like oh you shouldn't have been upset you know it's a game blah blah it's just really difficult when you compete for that long and when you put that much you know sweat toil and tears into something to have it you know taken away and everyone, and tears into something to have it, you know, taken away.

And everyone, here's the distinction people make. They're like, the difference is you and Sarah weren't partners then, right? And she just sent you into elimination. She didn't send you home. Well, we might not have been on the same team as partners, but we were in an alliance the entire time. And that, to me, we're partners. If I'm in an alliance with you, you're're my ride or die we're going to the end and i will throw myself in for you if i have to and i'll do whatever it takes to help you out in the game and then the whole

thing about she sent me in yeah she did send me did she want me to come back no that was the whole point in her sending me in it wasn't like oh i'm gonna send you in i hope you come back it oh, I'm going to send you in. I hope you come back. It was like, no, I'm going to send you in and I hope you go home. And that's what ended up happening. And it cost me a lot. I like when there's only eight people left and somebody sends somebody in and the person gets mad. When it's like any other choice, that person also would have been mad. It's like, hey, I guess send somebody in. You got to.

Yeah. There's no way to play. Everyone's like, you play such a dirty game. got to. Yeah. There's no way to play. Everyone's like, you play such a dirty game. Well, there's no clean way to play this game unless you're as lucky

as Devin and Cheyenne that just go through an entire season pulling white skulls and never have to make a tough decision. It was worse than that. Didn't they,

they left the show and came back. They got, how did they end up coming back? Like if this happened in the NFL, people would be writing about this for months.

I don't know. They're just in the playoffs. Wait, you lost. You didn't make the playoffs make the playoffs yeah well i don't think that they thought that what was gonna the odds of what they did pulling those pulling white skulls the entire time yeah never having to see another elimination i didn't like the white skulls i didn't i wasn't a big fan either i come up with a better something it leaves too much you know luck in the game and that was the one thing about this challenge that's been so much different than other ones is the amount of puzzles and the luck factor in this game it was more than than they've had in a lot of recent

challenges there wasn't a whole lot of physicality in it you know yeah i if you're gonna do the skulls like come up with a more fun way that has a little bit more than just somebody reaching in a thing cut to commercial yeah i think they i the one thing with the challenge that i wish they would go back to a little bit if you go back to those early seasons some of which were on youtube like headbanger like man in the sand just stupid stuff yeah like don't be afraid every once in a while to not make it the most grueling physical challenge i mean that look at this one we had trivia every season's a total toss-up yeah um but I'm saying really stupid. Like put paint on your ass and smear it on a canvas or something.

Yeah. Well, they did that. What was the one with the wiping the ice down? Yeah, where they had to try and melt the block of ice. Your butt on the ice and melt it down. When the strategy behind that was just to burrow one hole to the key and not try and melt the entire block of ice. Yeah. Yeah.

I couldn't tell. It's always hard to tell with the editing, but one of the competitors seemed to really enjoy the block of ice. Yeah. And I couldn't tell if they cut that. Who was it, Mark? No, the one, the girl from the bathroom. What's that girl's name? The girl from the bathroom.

No, the one this season. Oh, oh, this season. Ashley. Ashley. No, no, no. We bathroom No the one The one this season Oh Oh this season Ashley Ashley No no no We were on the soap On the soap Oh the soap

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Yeah. Here's my conspiracy theory. I'm not saying I believe this, but I think you could present the case. MTV knows you're probably going to win, especially with all the people they put in this one. I mean, I would compare this challenge. Jordan won six titles. You won six titles. This was like when Jordan beat the 98 Jazz.

Yeah. It counts as a title. I don't think you had to go through the same type of competition. You were seven steps ahead of everybody the whole time. I never felt like anyone else was going to win. I've also got a few more miles on these wheels, though, too, man. So maybe it all balances out. So did Jordan.

Okay. You did it with your smarts and guile and the physicality when you needed it. Why wouldn't I think that MTV saidtv said hey do this as the ending and we'll cover sarah's side that's a good question right that is a good question but because it's a whole conspiracy you said you said yourself it's tv because you don't know how m because because you just don't know how mtv works and they would never do something like that. Because they're cheap? It's not because they're cheap. It's because you know what that would do?

Any future possible rivalry or whatever that they want to keep going, they want there to be a visceral... So they were happy you did this? Come on. I thought you were going to retire, though. Here's the deal, dude. Well, who knows? We'll see. They're who knows we'll see they're still we'll see man this is like jordan this is what jordan said after 98 i don't know i might

not come back i might i might not i mean the way that i see it is it's like i don't want to i feel like i still got a lot left in the tank right but i also don't want to be the guy that's like you know you don't want to be that guy that athlete that's hanging around for like too long and it's like all right this guy should have retired a few years ago and you know what if if i wasn't still you know doing as well as i was had i just eat through this one but it's like it's like they're yet to to bring someone on that's that i've actually you know that's really gonna you know withstand the the the test of time i think if we're using the jordan analogy west to me is like a charles barkley like

he had the potential to to battle you for the whole decade he used to and he just he fit he just couldn't keep it up so i think i think west was more like a derrick rose like he started out like he was hot started out on fire was mvp and then as fast as he went up he just disappeared too much too soon too much too soon man like bo jackson i mean this guy comes out and it's like, dude, this guy is amazing. He can do everything. And then all of a sudden it's like he just disappears. You know, it's kind of like what happened with. He lost his edge.

He lost his pecs. Lost his pecs. He lost his body. The kid's deflated. He's a bone rack now, you know. I mean, he used to come on. He was. That's true.

He had a couple of challenges where he was very, very large. He was. And it's like, how does that. What happened there, man? I mean, the kid just gave up on life you know are you still feuding with him kind of the thing seems like you kind of weirdly like him now here's the deal with wes me and wes have never disliked each other off the show all right we've always it's more like a sibling rivalry where it's like but it's like we were just cut from different cloth you know what i mean and when we're on the show we always have two different strategies the difference is i tailor mine to whatever the season is he comes in with the exact

same strategy every season it just never works and it's transparent plan of alliances and it's like i'm gonna here's here's my plan i'm gonna come in and wrangle up every rookie i possibly can even though they're not gonna help me that works in a voting game when it's a numbers game and all that matters is votes yeah or like on a on like like free agents for example or when when when it's like a popularity con how many votes can i get but when it's a power couple situation where a team has to win to be in power it's like you could have all the votes in the house but if these teams aren't winning then you know it's meaningless basically west needs a new game plan i think wrangling all the all the happy to be there people and all the girls who don't realize that maybe it's a bad idea to get drunk four times a week and then go on the challenge the next day it's like i've always

called it's just west and his band of midget misfits man and it's just never it's just never panned out very well for him so west is like barkley yep who who is uh i guess ct is shack like just the unstoppable force that you just kind of hope you don't run into in a playoff pretty much hack a shack it's like you know what he's got one thing is with ct is it's like i mean the guys i've never seen anyone on a challenge that has the ability to... People call me manipulative. That guy, I mean, he's a whole other breed of manipulative. He reminds me of the movie Snatch, you know, the Pikes? Yeah.

It's like, I mean, before you know what you just did, you just sold your house and your family and everyone, the clothes off your back. He has the ability to just do that. You have no idea. You're like, wait a minute. How did I – I've never – the guy comes in one season with – he manages to – we have Under Armour clothes, right?

Swag bags. We each get a bag, right? And then what people will do is they don't like stuff, they'll trade it. This guy two days later has three duffel bags that he somehow managed to, like, wheel and deal and get clothes. It's like – and that that transfers through the game. That's a Boston thing. It is.

He's got that Boston mumbo. Boston wheeler dealer. You can never really tell what he's saying. You know it's not good. He's like, what did I just agree to? But yeah, as far as just an overall physical force and just as far as his strategy is concerned, that guy is a force.

So he's been the scariest. You know why? It's because with him, it's like the guy doesn't really have any weaknesses. If anything is his weakness, he's his own worst enemy. You know, and sometimes his strategy is a little bit flawed. I was going to say his weakness maybe is an anger problem that gets him kicked off the show every once in a while. I would count that as weakness. But you know what?

He's put a lot of that behind him, man. He's a different dude now. CT has actually mellowed out a lot, I think, which is one of the reasons why me and him are a lot closer than we used to be. And it was almost like, I've said this before, it was almost like United States and Russia for the longest time. It was kind of like a mutual assured destruction type thing. So who's Leroy? Leroy has all the tools and it just, every challenge, something bad happens. Leroy's the best, man.

I love that. I mean, there are a few- You never would have taken the 275 from Leroy. Never in a million years. He probably would have taken it from me. And I'm okay with that. No, Leroy wouldn't have done that. I'm okay with that.

No way. I'm okay with that. The only two that you totally trust are Leroy and Vince, I would say. Leroy and Vince, absolutely. I mean, yeah, and obviously if Kenny and Evan were still around. But those are the only two that I see nowadays that are really like my ride or dies on this show. And Vince is basically Scottie Pippen. You've cloned him.

He plays the game like you. He's like the younger version of you. You just ride him you you can take you take quarters off let him carry the offense yeah basically i mean that's that's what i love about the guy here's here's another thing about my cousin he just hasn't gotten a fair enough shake i mean the kid is a phenomenal i mean grade a athlete he got a full ride to to penn state football scholarship one state championship uh in ohio uh at a really good um school there in high school got a full ride joe

paterno came to his house talked to my uncle about having to go there this kid is is is a is an ath is an athlete but it's very difficult sometimes to try and transfer football athletic athleticism to what they make us do on the challenge because just a completely different yeah when you're in a cow tongue it's not really the same it's not it's yeah no matter how many you know no matter how fast your 40 time is that's not going to make you you know eat a cow tongue any faster right so vince very impressive brown uh silver medal for him i agree man what's that the second challenge second challenge silver medal and people want to give me all that oh he rode your coattails.

Man, if I wouldn't have been there, he still would have done well. I don't care what anybody says about him. There's not one guy in that house that would want to see him in an elimination round. I was going to say that. I wouldn't want to see him. When we were drawing white corks that last time, we were in Argentina. Yeah. And it was like, anyone go in?

My heart's never sank more in my chest my entire life than when i thought that jenna might pull that that that black cork and we were going to be going in against each other i was sick man i was sick i didn't like vince probably was the second best dude in the in the house thousand percent again the competition's down way down they need uh they need a new batch i know too many crying dudes i've never seen can we get some dudes who just get in fights again i've never seen and they didn get some dudes who just get in fights again? I've never seen, and they didn't really show this much. They showed up the first week we were there.

I think there was three or four teams that wanted to quit that all were like, we're done. We're going home. I'm like, you're a weekend. This is the easiest part of the challenge. Yeah. What did you guys think?

Because are you the ones just, it's a different show. You're there. You date the challenges or they just, you know, can we talk about this please? Yeah, absolutely. It's your're there, you date, the challenges are just... Can we talk about this, please? Absolutely. It's your show, man.

No, the Are You The One thing. I don't understand it. We've had 75 real world seasons at this point. We have all the old road rules. We have the senior tour guys like Mark Long. Who wants these Are You The One things? It really bothers me. I think what it is, is a lot of the real world people have either moved on or started families or whatever. We can all...

Raise the prize money then. I think we could all agree. I think we could all agree that the last few seasons of the world have not necessarily bred these people that are going to excel in in the in the realm of challenges it's bred bacteria and some sexual diseases exactly i don't know if that's it it's a petri dish man but then and then you know so you have are you the one where i think it's what they want is hot young people that just want to come on and hook up and that's fine but the problem is these a lot of the people that they bring on are very one dimensional. The thing is with the real world is we went through a very rigorous casting

process and we're layered. A lot of the people on the real world, there's a lot of layers to us and we're, and we're complicated individuals, you know, these are the ones, it's like they're one trick ponies. It's like,

it's like we want to get drunk. We want to argue and we want to fuck. And that's, and that's it. It's like, Oh, now we got to compete. Now we have to deal with playing that's it. It's like, oh, now we've got to compete? Now we have to deal with playing a game

and having to wrap our minds around this mental game? We weren't prepared for this. Brandon quitting because of his girlfriend? It's like, come on, dude. I've got a girlfriend at home. I've never seen that before, ever. I've never seen TJ more upset. I haven't either.

I have not either, man. The problem with that is you just cost another team that could have been here and could have who knows added something brought something new to the television

made a name for themselves won a prize at the end got caught with that whatever you took that away from somebody else you know Brandon could have said

like TJ I have to leave I'm gonna commit a terrorist attack yeah and T2 well you know everybody has their beliefs you gotta do what you gotta do man I'm just quitting the show because i'm quitting i have a girlfriend i have a

girlfriend at home who i guarantee i guarantee the second he got home she was like you're a pussy you know seriously really dude this is your opportunity to like i mean he and he's never gonna be back ever i mean that guy just burned a serious bridge, dude, by doing that. Not on TJ's show, he won't be back. No, no. Hey, we need more. First of all, get that other show out of there. And if we can't find enough people, enough alumni,

then maybe it's time to fold the show. Like the NBA is like, ah, we don't have enough good players this year. We're going to grab some players from a league in Bulgaria to round out our 30 teams. Yeah. I mean, it's... So a couple of good things did happen, though. Okay. Nani's cousin, I think, is worthy.

I like having her in the house. She's a wild card. Now, which cousin are we talking about? Are we talking about the Megan Fox lookalike that looks like she put her makeup on with a shotgun or are we talking about uh you know i'm talking about both both of them yeah the other one that you wake up and you're like i don't understand the eyelash thing eyelash thing how about the rest of it dude i've never seen on with it i don't know man it's it's quite the transformation process it's like jim carrey in the mask it's like you know she it's it's quite the transformation process it's like jim

carey in the mask it's like you know she it's like dude she she's a completely different person once once she's anyone ever won has anyone ever won the challenge that wore that much makeup i'm gonna say no oh no i don't think so at some point so that was good i think vince has been a good addition i couldn't agree more but it's a lot of people in in america disagree but i think uh he brought he brought an edginess to the show that he brought like that kind of that you know he's good tv that meathead mentality that a lot of people want and that you know here's one of the things i would do for next year's challenge leroy makes leroy makes it to the second the last episode it's just in the

show he doesn't have to do any challenge Leroy's had so much bad luck we're just making him we're almost giving him a bye just give him just like LaRusso and Karate Kid 3 when all he's just in the finals you didn't have to fight anybody uh-huh that's what I want with Leroy just put him ahead he's in like the quarterfinals and that's it and we all just accept couldn't agree more man you know what the thing is with leroy is he is just just from the comedy aspect of the show just just from the comedic aspect you know what they i think you're right we should do is leroy next time he comes on we don't want him to hurt himself when his partner get hurt you're going to entertain us in the house while we're here but when we go and do challenges

you can chill you chill we'll go do our shows we'll come back but you got to be funny all the time and you got you got to make you got to make that's your job. Or make the Leroy role. Like if your partner screws up or gets hurt or bring a replacement is about down. Leroy gets another partner. Yeah. Leroy's cousin was pretty shitty, dude. You know, that was not good.

So you've won six. You're getting older. You've had a girlfriend for the last couple, which I don't support support at all i don't think anybody should have girlfriends or wives at home i don't like that sarah's married i think the challenge is a place where you where mistakes and judgment are such a key part of the process they are but you know what man even if i didn't have a girlfriend there's there's no one in that house that that i would it's just the problem is just from a strategic standpoint that it's just a terrible ruin it's a terrible move it's a terrible move and it's and it just it'll it'll just throw a monkey wrench in your entire operation it's just that's just not

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Use the offer code BS to get 10% off your first purchase. Back to the podcast. I have a question for you. Yeah. Because a lot of people were asking, like on Twitter, I got lit up. I was taking grenades in the trenches last night. And everyone was like, I wonder what Bill Simmons thinks about what you did. And I'm kind of curious.

I was saving it because I want to talk about it on the podcast. I loved it. I think it's a show. Yeah. And here's the thing. If it had been Leroy, I would have been really upset. If it had been your cousin. Wouldn't have happened.

I would have been like, that dude's a scumbag. I can't believe he did that. But you did it to somebody who did it to you. And I think she was more bothered that it was like turnabout, fair play, whatever that thing is. That's what bothered her is that you flipped it on her. She had this one little tiny thing over bananas. The greatest challenge competitor of all time. She was the one that figured out how to wham the in your back and then you won it back and and what's funny is that

what you just explained so eloquently is exactly is exactly the way that i see the entire situation as well and people want to draw these these these differences and comparisons between what happened but at the end of the day all right after what happened between me and her on x's she set the rules for engagement right she's the one that said you know what there's friendship and then there's money and it's a game right we're playing a game and she even said in the past she goes you know what if i didn't put my best interest first then there's no point in me being here she defended it to you this season yeah when you guys had dinner the first thing she said here's what she says to win yeah she said i will not apologize to you i won't say sorry to you but i will apologize for putting a price on our friendship

and she said i wanted the money and i wanted the friendship i couldn't have them both so i took the money and what boggles my mind wow what boggles my mind. Wow. What boggles my mind is that when Sarah did it to me, it was a game. Get over it. It's a game. Right? When I do it, it's not a game. It's reality. So what I don't understand is some.

So this is people's logic on social media. Sometimes a game is a game. But other times a game is reality. Social media has logic? No. None. Zero. That's why i said dude i was i'm sitting here reading this stuff last night and i'm just like these people are are just dude out there bro like out there like do you and i get it we know what it is people sarah's very likable i would argue that she's the most likable female she's the antithesis of me, and I get that. And you know what?

And this is what I said. People hate what happened on the show, but they don't hate it because of what I did. They hate it because it's me that did it, right? If you were to take that exact same scenario, and you were to take me out of the equation, and you were just to plug in anonymous Joe Schmo, everyone, no one, this wouldn't even be we wouldn't

be talking about this it wouldn't have been trending on twitter last night it wouldn't have been you know this huge diabolical you know plot twist because it it's because it's me and it's because it's her and we are complete polar opposites and i think i think what it is is and i'm guilty of this too, because I probably would be mad at me if I was not myself as well. It's like if you've never watched a team compete before, if you just turn on the TV and it's some whatever curling in the Olympics, and they're like, oh, this is the Russian team.

They've dominated this for the last 20 years. This is the Canadian team that's lucky to be here. Who are you going to root for? The Canadian team, because you want to root for the underdog. And I think Sarah was the ultimate underdog, and I think that's why everyone just wanted this to happen and me doing it to her

was you know here's the thing with Survivor has this and your show has this where the whole point of the show everybody goes in knowing it's going to be

about alliances yeah whoever does the double cross the best at the right time don't trust anyone. This is a game. Don't let personal relationships conflict with what you're trying to do. Get it done.

Win the title. Win the money. That's the point. And then anytime somebody gets double cross, let's do that. That's why I got mad that you did it that time. I know. Because the whole point of the game is you're waiting for these little moments where you can flip it on somebody and take it from them. See, and that's another thing is,

and I get that, and that is, that is the nature of the game. But like I said before, and as much as people want to say, oh, you play a scummy game, you're a dirtbag, you screw everyone over.

I do. It's just not my friends, okay? The one time, the one blemish on my record when that actually happened was with paula and if you want to really get down to brass tacks what i did to paula is basically exactly what sarah did to me which was i basically sent you did it before sarah did it to you yeah i sent paula onto this other boat i didn't eliminate her she just was on a weaker boat right she was still in the final what sarah did to me was put me in an elimination, all right?

That was a great way to do it to Paula. It wasn't, and I totally agree with that. I wouldn't call her the most stable personality. But if you really think, that wasn't just mine. Everyone puts it on me. There was three other people in that decision. It was Derek, it was Kenny, and it was Evelyn. The only reason we did that was because it was either me or it was Evelyn.

Evelyn was going to take my key. I wasn't going to be on that boat. So we had to make a deal with her. Here I am. I've struggled this entire challenge. I've had my back against the wall. Paula ran around drunk the entire time like an idiot. She got a key given to her.

I had to go in and fight for a key. So I just felt like I deserved to be there more than her with sarah and with what she did so i was stuck between a rock and a hard place there was no easy way out of that sarah had an easy option she had a rookie team that did not deserve to be there and she threw me in i was supposed to be her friend instead i'm amazed when people show up on these challenges and you're there and so you've won five at this point my i don't care if i'm new i'm medium i'm older my whole goal would be to just get you into the eliminations and try to get you off the show these people are so stupid they think you want to be friends with them oh bananas bananas asked me

to take a walk oh great these people are such idiots you know what though dude it's a little more complicated than that what makes shows like this difficult is because when you're the power team right there's two of you you have 100% of the of the vote which means you have 100% of the responsibility so being a new team you win Dario and Nicole say right in theory let's throw the two greatest teams in that's a great in theory it's different when you actually win and you have to do it. And that's what I said. A lot of people just don't have the stones to make a move like that.

Especially when you're sitting there and you're like, yo, if you don't throw me in, now that you have bargaining chips, let's hash out a deal. And a lot of times, that's why the team concept was a lot easier because there was eight people voting one person in. That blame could be spread between eight people as opposed to the blame all coming back onto you. So if Dario or a new kid was to pull this crazy power move, mind you, it was against Nate and Christina, who was the weakest team there. Chances are both of us are coming back and guess who we're going after. And a lot of people just don't have the intestinal fortitude to go through through something like that i'm starting to think that the people from are you the one maybe aren't rocket scientists you think yeah i mean initially i went into it thinking these are some of the smartest people now i'm wondering if maybe i was wrong away dude maybe they're not uh um but

going back to the whole like like wait hold on i got a question for you yeah so when you do the toast now which is your as we've discussed before your signature move is the first night toast yeah you're just great at it so good at it that we invited you to i think it was the last grantland anniversary party it was one of them it was maybe the fifth or sixth party you did a toast for all of grantland it was awesome yeah um i actually spent some time on that one i know you did and uh so when you do the toast now you're just throwing the shot over your shoulder you're not actually drinking it well this last time are you do you fake drink on these challenges to pretend like no i'm trying to get everyone else drunk but you're not drinking i still do i'll okay i i you know i'll cut up a few times on the challenge but nowhere near as much as i did

before i mean usually the first weekend we're there, that first toast, that first night, usually I get, I get pretty rowdy, but that's just cause I want, I want to set a good example. You know what I mean? I want to set a good example for the kids. And I want to be like, listen, exactly. Listen, this is what you guys do. They're like lemmings. It's like, I'm going to jump off this cliff and I want you all to follow me off.

And you know, let's consume as much alcohol as we can. Let's make as many bad decisions as we can. I don't necessarily just view the show as a cast member I view it as a producer as well and I know what's gonna make and I know what's gonna make great television which is why this plot twist at the end I mean come on people you don't have to defend the plot twist I'm not what I'm no what I'm saying is side what I'm saying though I'm talking to your listeners my listeners if they don't understand it then they don't deserve to have enjoyed the show what i'm saying is this though is they put that plot twist in there for a reason okay how anti-climactic would that final ending have been if you know what yeah we're gonna i'm gonna split the money like come on dude no that the reason the

reason i'm here the reason we're talking about this is because they put it out there. I viewed it from not just a monetary standpoint, but also from a producer's perspective. I've been like, dude, imagine putting a plot twist like that and no one taking advantage of it, you know? Listen, it's very Jordan-esque. I mean, Jordan had the one blemish, which was when he came back from baseball orlando beat him you have your one blemish the ct knapsack what was that event called a backpack the banak pack but you came back from it much like lebron yeah in 2000 in the 2011 finals when lebron hit rock bottom just made him stronger he wins the next two titles that was one as as as humiliating of a defeat as that was

it was one of the most motivating things that ever happened to me you know it was humiliating of a defeat as that was, it was one of the most motivating things that ever happened to me. You know, it was humiliating, but at the same time, it's like if you were running with the bulls in Pamplona and a bull just ran you over. Can't feel bad about it. Is that humiliating or are you just like, wow, I wish I hadn't run into a bull? Or been strapped to a frigging gorilla. What human being wins that battle with CT? Yeah. And especially because, I mean, it was, was i mean i was doing from the beginning i mean the guy they

literally call the guy i mean i'm pretty sure he'd been like locked in a cage in boston just just just doing squats and eating babies dude for the last you know six months and then here i am i mean it's so close to the end of the show. Yeah. We're all like, dude, in final mode, final prep mode. I mean, I'm shredding down as much weight as I possibly can. This guy comes in 230. I'm a buck 75. Yeah. It's like, oh, you just strapped a banana to a gorilla.

What do you think is going to happen? You know what I mean? It is what it is, though. And it really did. It fueled me. And it was one of those really motivating experiences. I think's more of a ct moment than a bananas moment that's more like uh yeah that's more like uh i i don't understand how i'm part of the same species as this as this he is a guy's a mutant dude why is it what's he doing now um he's uh from what i know he's doing

real estate he's doing uh like home home home remodeling and flipping homes and stuff in, uh, in Florida. Flipping homes in Florida. Yeah. Yeah. Give me some other updates on the CTA. What are, what's like Kenny doing? Kenny, uh, Kenny's working at a, uh, he's a coach at a CrossFit gym in, um, New York. Okay.

Um, doing well. Evan has his own, Evan's getting in New York. Okay. Evan? Doing well. Evan has his own, Evan's getting married in November. Okay. And he has his own marketing company called The Bait Shop. Doing really well. Coral?

I don't know what Coral's doing, man. I don't know. Who else was from that generation? Because you've somehow spanned two generations now. Yeah, Brad. Oh, Brad. Yeah, Brad's married. Married to Tor tori still happily

married a couple of kids that was probably the worst moment in challenge history for humiliation standpoint what was that drunk drunk brad just getting oh you know you want to sound funny durell just called me today out of the blue really out of the blue man just called me i was like i was worried i was just like oh man did i do i owe this guy money or something like why is he calling me and uh he's like he's like man i was he's like what's going on bro i've been seeing on twitter all this stuff he goes explain to me what happened and i'm just like yeah and i and i kind of told him but same with him he's married uh he's got a couple of kids now what about uh derrick derrick you know what funny story derrick is actually his, he's actually going the opposite. He's getting a divorce.

Challenge? He's trying to come back, bro. Oh my God, we're breaking news. He's trying to make his triumphant comeback. If you haven't seen, I want you to look at Derek's Facebook and Twitter. Because he's been posting all these old school videos of him just being an animal. Wow. Because he basically told me, he told me on the phone, He's like, I was like, what happened, dude?

He's like, well, you know, she tried to take everything from me. And when she tried to take my soul, he's like, I drew the line. Smart. Smart man. You can't live without a soul. So Derek might make a comeback. But most people can't. Wow.

But yeah, Derek's trying to make his triumphant comeback. Who can we get back on? What other greats can we get on? We got to take the show back from our other one. To get Derek back would be great. That we can get back or would be great to have back? It would be great to have back. I mean, dude, Landon, The Miz.

Well, The Miz is like... Yeah, he's on a whole other level now. Good for him. You were on the same shows with him. I've never been on a challenge with him. The Miz was kind of... He was like the Dr. J to your MJ. Yeah. It was like an earlier era. The challenge wasn't as cool. The kind of the he was like the dr j to your mj yeah yeah it was like an earlier era the challenge wasn't as cool as the man dude he uh i haven't seen him in a while

he was at my 30th birthday party guy's an animal landon was uh one of the world's greatest athletes he was just in general just a natural no he's a freak of nature uh alton came back that one year and he was like he was he was just a shell of who he used to be. It was almost like he was an RU the one cast member. He's very emotional. Yeah. That was weird. Who else do we want to come back? CT's the big one for me.

CT, yeah, dude. I mean, that guy... We can't get him back? I don't know. I mean, you know what it is? He had a... I think with everything that happened with DM, with DM passing, you know that dm and ct

were kind of like they were kind of synonymous with with each other and with the challenge and you know i think that that's what he always thinks about when he thinks of a challenge i mean if i spent that much time with a girl in that environment dude it would be tough to go back to that and not think about them and he even said before he goes he goes you know i don't i don't think d would be would approve of me sleeping in a bunk bed you know um and you know he he uh you know caught a lot of flack after after she passed just from you know people that were just spreading stories just weren't true about his intentions and all that stuff so i think he just had to step he kind of has taken a step back from everything and I think he kind of wanted to, you know, I guess let the dust settle

and really kind of figure his thing out before he, you know, made his triumphant return if he's going to. We need him back. I agree. Here's my challenge foundation. And you can just basically put anyone around it, but it's great.

I think you and your cousin, I like having both of you on. Leroy. MTV, are you listening to this? This is Nostradamus you're listening to right here. Leroy, CT. Yep. I like Nani and her cousin.

Nani, to me, is essential. Yeah. She's the best because it doesn't matter if it's exes, rivals Whatever, there's eight different choices For her It can go any way but she has a history with everyone On the show somehow So you have that I think Camilla is

Really, she's replaced CT CT was the original Indestructible force and now it's Camilla You know what they love And I love as well And this is paula was always such a great cast member another great one they love people who and you know who and i'm just gonna i'm just gonna throw this out there who i think is gonna be who's like the second coming of paula and camilla is ashley smashley the reason that they love characters like that is because these are girls congratulations

these are girls who will come on and they'll make every bad decision in the book yeah have meltdowns and get drunk and sleep with gali knows who and then after they watch themselves do on tv they're okay and they'll come back and do it all over again yeah but the bad decision uh just moving forward they listen the best people to cast are people who have no problem making bad decisions and then repeating those bad decisions season after season they don't want listen do not learn from your mistakes continue being that person and making great television nani's like half learned from her mistakes nani's come a long way yeah she's she's come a long way since since

free agents camilla camilla so that in the reunion show there was an unbelievable moment when uh they're trying to figure out if camilla hooked up with vince at four in the morning in a bathroom or not and her defense was no no no while he was showering i was taking a shit it's like that is the worst thing i've ever heard i'd rather you said you just hooked up with them it's true though man, and here's why. People are always like, oh man, so-and-so is so hot. You know, have you ever hooked up with her? Would you?

I'm like, do you understand that it's like when you see these girls, it's like when they're in interviews all decked out and we're going out to the club, we're competing. They look amazing. We see them when they just woke up in the morning. Half the girls haven't put their weaves in. Nicole's face is still, you know, on the floor. Camilla, you know what I mean? Like Camilla's in the room taking a shit.

It's like, dude, it's like, it's, you get over that real quick. It's like almost like family. Yeah. That whole, and that's why relationships, no, not after a while, nobody gives a shit. And that's why it's like, but I really do feel like the guys kind of take a lot more, you know, pride in the way that they looked in the girls. The guys work, are training, we're working out shit. And that's why I take it. But I really do feel like the guys kind of take a lot more pride in the way that they looked and the girls. The guys are training, we're working out.

We want to look good on camera. Most of these girls, they just go and they just give up. They're just like, hey, man, I'm here. I'm not going to work out. I'm going to lay around in bed all day, drink beer, eat food. So did Vince and Camilla hook up? No, not even close. Are we sure?

A thousand percent. There's no way. Oh, another one is essential for the core. Two more, actually. I love Zach. Yeah. Zach makes great television. Zach makes great television.

There's never been a more self-absorbed, happier about himself guy that's ever been on the show. What I love about having Zach on the challenges is it takes a lot of the heat off me. It's almost like this is why I think Donald Trump is very happy probably right now about what happened last night is because i'm taking all the flack right now all the grenades this guy's been taking on social media for the last week it's all deflected man so donald if you're listening you're welcome my friend but i don't i don't think i i god i wish that was true but zach trump if he had seen me, he'd be like, I got to do three dumb things right now.

Right now. This guy's stealing my spotlight. Come on. But that's why Zach's always good for some good old-fashioned deflection. You know what I mean? I like Zach's old girlfriend who he dumped while she was on the show. Jenna? Jenna.

Yeah, Jenna's amazing. She's good. I still love the cousin that she had last year kind of looked like martin short who she looked like jeffrey giraffe from toys r us listen but she she was like you you just want enough money to buy a bakery or like she held the bake what was the bakery no no my dad you think you're cool because you work at a bakery that's what it was that was the line you think you're all that because you work at a bakery that's what it was that was the line you think you're all at because you work at a bakery it was great um that was one of my favorite moments they're like uh the thing about jenna i'm convinced i'm convinced jenna's a cia agent man i really am because she's

just quiet and taking everything in i've never seen anything like it bro have you ever seen anyone the girls made it to all three finals she's ever been to true has besides with her cousin has never stirred the pot with any with any girl in the house ever never gotten into a competition which is impossible yeah and every season even though she's been there three times one of those dominant girls in the house no one ever wants to throw her in or has anything negative to say about her who was the girl who was an awesome athlete emily emily shram Emily she was her and Evelyn I think were the best athletes in the history of the show and Laurel

Laurel what was her name Jody back in the day was a monster you remember Jody she was on my first challenge yeah Laurel

Laurel had a mean edge story that I didn't like dude I don't like mean it's no she I like I like ball busting

and sarcastic and I don't like when it gets like vicious vicious yeah well that's some people I mean just have that Naya was like that I like ball busting and sarcastic, and I don't like when it gets vicious. Vicious, yeah. Well, some people just have that. Naya was like that. Naya's just got that where she will literally, I mean, she'll figure out exactly what it is about you that is your weakest point, and she'll carve you up, man.

I mean, that girl's got no remorse. And you know what? She's one of those girls, when she's on your side, you love it, but she's not someone you want to, you want to be on, on the, on the business end of that, you know? So no hooking up really on this show, on this season. I mean, besides the ones that everyone saw, I mean, it was, you know. I wonder if the, are you the ones were like rabbits, like just put them in a cage and they were pumping each other.

They kind of were, dude. I mean, that, that Amanda chick came into the house, you know, know uh the freckled motherfucker as camilla called her uh she came in she came in like a freaking bat out of hell and i think you know hooked up with a couple dudes tony tony hooked up with phil in the blank oh tony's another essential for me he's the man although he could bring back the uh the uncomfortable i'm not you're a little too close to that woman as you're yelling at her part of that was that was a low point for tony bring that back the thing is scale that back a notch here's the deal with tony that everyone needs to understand tony is like a labrador puppy dog it's so funny i was gonna make a dog comparison after you did no he really is that just doesn't that's

just that's just grown up too fast and has run around the house and has no control of his body and is just knocking shit over and peeing all over the place and but doesn't realize he's doing it like tony does not the guy doesn't have a mean bone in his body all right and he really is like one of like the the coolest funniest dudes ever i like the tony defense i wasn't expecting it doesn't give a i mean he does not i mean it's no secret the guy's got a baby and he's got another baby on the way and he can't wait to come on the next challenge. I'm like, you know what? Most guys have kids and they're like, I'm done.

He's like, I can't wait to keep going. Bananas. I can't wait. Tony's going to have more kids. I think it's the life of the story. I can't wait for you to pass the torch with me. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be.

But he's the man, dude. He was another one that just between him and Leroy. I mean, the show lost. Lost a lot of character. A lot of entertainment when those two left and then that's what sucked and it was like you know the the burden of keeping the show you know funny and entertaining all fell on my shoulders and that's a tall order you know i was my dog analogy for tony was gonna be when there's blonde girls in the house no matter even if he's hooked up with

a blonde girl the night before it's the same thing same thing as if one of my dogs doesn't eat and the other dog just has to go by the bowl and eat it. Just like, oh, there's food. I'm eating. I just ate. I don't care. It's a natural instinct to eat. That's what Tony's like with blonde females.

And what they should really do next season is just everybody should be blonde. Just have Tony come in and it's like oh Tony yeah the boys the boys side there's no beds left you're gonna have to be on the girls side one night we convinced him he got so black he got really drunk one night and we convinced him that he cuddled with Wes he actually believed us we're like dude

you fell asleep man in bed with Wes and you guys like you spooned the entire night so he gets blackout drunk that guy can party man We're like, dude, you fell asleep, man, in bed with Wes. And you guys like, you spoon the entire night. So he gets blackout drunk. That guy can party, man. Let's put it that way. I mean, he's a Southern boy, man. I mean, he's one of those Southern boys that just, it's impressive. The amount of alcohol that guy can consume is impressive.

All right. So Bill Russell won 11 titles. Yeah. MJ won six. Kobe 11 titles. Yeah. MJ won six. Kobe won five. Yeah. I think Gretzky won five. No, Gretzky won four.

Messier won five. Brady's won four. I think Robert Horry's won eight. Wow. If you combine all the teams he's been on, it's something like, somebody's won eight. It might be him.

How many Shaq won? Four? Shaq had three three in baseball some of the old school guys like the yankees things like that seven would be pretty good seven seven it's basically bill russell than you here's the deal man as much as i would love to win another challenge are you announcing retirement right now as much as i would love no as much as i would love to win another challenge. Are you announcing retirement right now? As much as I would love to win another challenge. As if it wasn't difficult enough. You know the saying goes, the higher up on the ladder you get,

the bigger the target on your ass gets. I thought I was at the top of the ladder before this challenge. Where I'm at now, if the cast doesn't eliminate me, production will hire a sharpshooter to shoot me with a tranq dart or something. Or it would just be all puzzle challenges. All puzzles. Or they'll make a puzzle time.

Or, dude, they're going to, I don't know, put frigging Visine in my water bottle and I'm going to be shitting myself on the final or something like that. Put a bear trap in my bag. How could somebody be so smart and so bad at puzzles? Maybe you should go to, like, puzzle camp. Because you know what? Book smart and street smart are two completely different things. And I've always been very street smart. You can't learn how to do puzzles?

You can, but it's... Do you want to go to my summer camp that my son goes to? I'd love to. Can I? Can me and your son go and just do puzzles? He would love you. He loves bananas. Listen, I take the physical, I take the dad training, but it's just like the puzzle thing. It's just puzzles is never, my brain just doesn't work that way. It's funny how Sarah was just, she's like a freaking, she's like a road scholar. It's insane. She finishes hers,

comes over and does yours. It's only one point she did your puzzle you should make sure everyone knows about it yeah make sure that's true make sure she reminds me hey i've finished mine now i'm helping on yours thanks sarah because i didn't already realize that you know she's a she's a hall of fame female challenge competitor for me though is she yeah i think she's been really steady the whole time let me ask she's always in the mix here's here's my only qualm with that is until sarah screwed me over all right in or whatever you want to call it in x's before that move sarah was always the little engine that could you know what i mean the lovable loser it was like oh we're really pulling for her she's had such bad luck we really want her to win you know i think a lot of a lot of people in america can identify with her as you know probably the people who's like you know she said when she was younger she's like i got picked on for being nerdy and i was always you know i was never really

athletic i did summer camps i was always a nerdy girl once she screwed me over once that happened like you were just saying she finally i think that that that then, it just gave her this, you know, where she had like arrived. You know what I mean? It gave her some mojo. It gave her some mojo, but not just her. All of America now basically was like, you screwed over bananas. That makes you the best player to ever play the game, basically. I think that's part of her hall of fame case and if that's the case you want to make that that's that she's screwing me over is is one of the is one of the justifications for doing it

then she got the better the michael jordan and the challenge she she got me no she she definitely got me but i mean then you know what happened on this one you know they say two wrongs don't make a right but two wrongs definitely made us even she's one of the five best female competitors we've had i think like like puzzle wise i will agree thing just whole thing yeah okay yeah well hey strategy yeah she's always around like she doesn't break down in the challenges which is another she doesn't and i think one of the reasons why and there's very few girls think about sarah and i think one of the reasons that she's such a good competitor is she's very even keeled right yeah a lot of the girls in the house are dude they're like like the nannies and the camillas and and a lot of these ashley's they're like they're like a roller coaster bro one day

they're up one day they're down they're always crying it's like you know you you try and strategize them or have like a strategic moment and it's like five minutes later they're it's totally out the window if you look at the girls who made it to the final, this time around, with the exception of Cheyenne because she got lucky, but Nicole, Jenna, and Sarah. The one trait that the three of them share is they're all very even keeled.

They're not super emotional. FYI, you just described how people get to the final three in The Bachelor. Yeah. The Bachelor always picks the one that eventually you're gonna gravitate toward the easier people yeah especially in the bachelor like oh she's cute and she's easy i'm gonna bring her to the final three i want to want to bring her to be my parent yeah the challenge is kind of the same way nobody's like i want to be around this person for eight weeks this freaking roller coaster ride no

but but also it's like camilla is so funny that but person for eight weeks, this freaking rollercoaster ride. No. But also it's like. Camila is so funny that maybe. But those aren't people that. But the thing is, as far as an alliance is concerned, those aren't people you want to have in your alliance because you're just worried. You're just like, what this, you know, we're going to have this conversation now. We'll be on the same page. But 10 minutes from now, when somebody else gets in your ear or God forbid, you you you you know you hit your menstruation cycle dude all bets are off you know what i mean see can you tell me about wes's business acumen what do we know

about what wes does for a living then we gotta go well well first of all i mean i'm surprised you know i i called him today but i wasn't able to get a an appointment with him you know i wasn't able to set a meeting up wes and his business acumen i i like to the guy claims he's got 70 businesses or whatever it seems it's almost like a lot of businesses it's almost like a guy that if you were to go out and invest in 100 penny stocks and you just pray that one of them one day just turns into like a you know just goes just just isn't worth 10 cents tomorrow i mean he just made you rich that's how that's what he does with his with his you know business incubators he's got 70 he's got 70 businesses all of them aren't worth anything

and he's just hoping that at some point one of them is gonna so he just tells people 70 businesses but it doesn't explain to them what they are i think a lot of people think it's like oh businesses like how many hours a day do you think west works oh god i don't i don't know what are we talking i mean it's a good question i mean all the cars he's got, his Porsche and his monster truck, you know, he doesn't have a whole lot of time to probably work. Are we positive he has those cars? No. Never seen them.

Wes, listen, Wes suffers from what they call delusions of grandeur. All right. Yeah. That guy lives in an alternate reality. Right. There's reality that the rest of us live in. And then there's Wes's world where the ginger kids hang out it's a very good-looking girlfriend so it's it's amazing isn't it Johanna was one of the best-looking girls ever in

the challenge it all works out until you know the girls get electricity in their house and turn the lights on they see what they're sleeping with and it's uh it all just takes a horrible left turn from there. How many times did you dip into the Challenge family love well? Camila. On camera? Either. I mean, dude, yeah. Camila, Nani, Casey.

Oh, Casey. Yeah. Did you date somebody in your real world season? You did, right? On Key West? No. No, no, no. None of the cast members.

No? No. Who was the... Svetlana. That's who everyone remembers. Love Svetlana. world season you did right on key west no no no none of the cast members no no uh-uh who was who was the uh svetlana that's what everyone remembers everyone loves svetlana the problem was dude you know what she was overqualified for the show she was but she at the time had she been like two or three years older yeah she was 17 dude i was i mean i was i was 21 but i saw her as a child when we were on when we were on the season like she was she was raised in like this you know ukrainian bubble like her parents never let her she and she came into the house and it was like it was like guys fitlana you you're hot but just just don't talk you know

what i mean just just stop because every time you talk i feel like i'm hanging out with an elementary school kid you know what i mean um she's she's like an artist which one is casey casey was on the first freshman she was Wes's partner on the first Fresh Meat. Oh, yeah, yeah. Little Casey. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. Little blonde. So which one is the thorn in your girlfriend's side when you watch a show?

That she gets all of them? All of them. She didn't like when you were on the remote island with Nani probably for a few days. I mean, no, but the thing about that was, I mean, there was production there the entire time. So it was almost like, you know, it wasn't what they tried to make it out like. Like, it was like, oh, we're on, like, you know, this vacation island where it's just the two of us. It's like, yeah, right, we've got a babysitter,

we've got camera, you know, it wasn't what they played it up to be. All right, so where does this go? Are you doing another challenge? Are you spinning off into your own show? I mean, obviously, my dream, here's the thing. Your dream is to have your own show. Yeah, I've put in more than enough time,

and I feel like I've done more than enough On these shows To where now The way that I see it is Where do I I feel like in any If I continue doing challenges I'm doing lateral moves

From here on out You know what I mean This is why Jordan Ended up playing baseball And cutting his finger In a cigar holder And all the stuff that happened And I feel like at this point

I feel like at this point It's like I've done all that I I've done all that I can do on the challenges. I've accomplished what I've wanted to accomplish. There's no way I'm ever going to top what happened on this season, right? I mean, there's absolutely no way. Unless, I mean, who knows?

It was like Jordan Schott in Utah. Very similar. It's how do you script anything better? You can't. Plus, it's like for me to think that I'm going to go on one of these shows and have a fair shake, you know, with, you know, the way it's. I wouldn't be surprised if every cast member that's gotten called for this next challenge isn't already on a group text being like, all right, we're in an alliance and Bananas is on the other side. You know what I mean? Like that's kind of.

Bananas versus the world. That's what it'll be. Well, that's very similar to a show idea that we have. Why can't they have a challenge in Los Angeles? Cost of labor? Cost of production? Is it more expensive here than to do it? Oh, 10 times more.

I would have thought it would be easier to do it here. You know what labor costs in Thailand or in Mexico? I mean, dude. Plus, it's like, you know, they did one in... See, that just should be part of Trump's campaign. When I'm president, the challenge will come back to America. And the first part of the challenge,

I got to jump over this wall I'm going to build. Yeah. We're going to do it in Los Angeles? Wow. All right, that was my first question. Second question was, how many years left do you have? For what?

For just physically, for doing this i mean buddy this may sound weird but it's like everyone gives me they're like oh come on man you're 45 which i'm not and you should be retired why are you still doing this in 401k i feel physically i'm in i'm in a better place now than i was when i was in my 20s. And I think a lot of it has to do with, I mean, I just don't party a lot. I have a very, very, very insanely clean diet, which I owe a lot to my girlfriend because she's got me on the whole free range, organic, hippy dippy, crunchy granola kick.

And it makes a difference. It really does. And just the way I train. And just the way I train and just the way i take care of my body and just everything it's like i i i'll go on these shows there's kids that are you know in their early 20s and i'm like dude i'll run circles around you right now you know so physically i mean i got a lot left in the tank my issue is is where i'm at you know mentally my mental you

know where i'm at as far as like the mental part of the game and just where i where i want to be you know and and i love the challenge dude i really do and it's been such an amazing part of my life um i spent a decade doing challenges and being on mtv and i've been to every continent you can imagine and i've done every crazy thing you can imagine and my thing is like you know i i want i love the competition or the challenge, but I really do feel like at some point I've got to, you know, I've got to go look for greener pastures and hopefully take what I've done on television

and, you know, the fan base that I've built up and the notoriety I've built up and parlay that into something else. This is my last question. I have a new last question. So many people on this show are willing to really just shamelessly disgrace themselves in all these different ways um not you but how have we not had a challenge sex tape yet

with challenge what there have been how two of these people have been like instead of finishing third place and making 25 grand let's just make a sex tape i mean who would watch it you don't need to watch it you can watch it on the on the show dunbar dunbar did that he did playboy tv he basically did he did porn dunbar legitimately did porn look it up it's called foursome i'm not saying it's a good decision yeah i'm saying this is the place where people make mostly terrible, bad decisions. I can't believe nobody stumbled into the, are you the one sex tape? Hey, I got so-and-so, so-and-so, and so-and-ho. We need one more. Let's be real, though.

Who's going to watch that? I don't know. It's a bad decision. It is. That would be a terrible decision. But, I mean, yeah. How has it not happened? I don't know.

We should see if we can get the ball rolling on that one. When is the next season? We don't know yet. What do you mean you don't know yet? i don't know we we should we we should uh see if we can get the ball rolling when is the next season we don't know yet um what do you mean you don't know yet we don't know i mean it's getting your shit together mtv well i mean there's there's there's uh whispers that it's going to be this fall phil and me is going to start this fall but i mean you know they're just not telling you nothing's been nothing's set in stone yet i mean there's no there's you know availability calls haven't even gone out yet. So, you know, at least this time I'm getting a little more time to recover mentally before things really start getting going. Well, thanks to Stamps.com.

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that package by going to simplysaybill.com. Don't forget to check out theringer.com. Don't forget about our other seven podcast feeds on the Ringer Podcast Network including Channel 33. I think they're going to break down the challenge too. It really deserves two podcasts. I agree. Don't forget about my HBO show Any Given Wednesday

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and watch Johnny Bananas and his six challenge titles. Unbelievable. Six challenge titles. I know. It is. I honestly didn't think What was the best one?

Rivals 1. Was that that was your first title? No. No, no, no. Oh, my first No think what was the best one Rivals won was that what which that was your first title no no no oh my first no what was

of your six what's your favorite Rivals so which what was that in the order Argentina that was that was like your third one

let's see so my first one was The Island then it was The Ruins I like The Ruins The Ruins was fun that was a good gimmick yeah and then it was Rivals it was my third it was the first it was the good gimmick. Yeah, and then it was Rivals. It was my third.

It was the first time we were in pairs. We weren't in teams. The game was difficult. The elimination against CT, me, Tyler, CT, and Adam, was one of the most vicious eliminations I've ever had. The T-bone where we had to run full speed. Oh, I love that. Dude, that was hands down.

One of the scariest moments of my life, dude. I'm, I'm not even kidding you. Jump from buildings. No, no. Okay.

Jump from building. I'm on a harness. I'm not going to get hurt. I'm running blind, full speed into CT coming the opposite. You know what I mean? It's blind. It's not even something you can prepare for,

you know, but making it to that final. And then that final, which is the hardest final they've ever done in challenge history 23 straight miles 14 000 foot summit i mean the amount of 14 that was that was too much i couldn't do that today i i i'm telling you right now if i do that final again i couldn't because when i did that when i was you know 25 26 and i couldn't walk for a week i had stress fractures in both feet i had a strained mcl i mean

it was that was the most brutal challenge we've ever done hands down there's never been anything even close to that and i never have gotten my proper amount of credit for coming up the x's format which i did come up with on my podcast you know what you know what else you mean jacoby came up you want to know what else you came up with that actually for a while I was getting people after the podcast was last time about people buying or paying for me to do toasts for them. I can't tell you how many requests I got from people. Oh, really? For their weddings.

They wanted to live stream me into their weddings. I still want to set it up. They were like, yeah, man, I'll pay you. That's a whole toast business. It really is. Dude, they want me to do them. They want fraternities were hitting me up. Guys at bachelor parties, they wanted to like webcast me Fraternities were hitting me up Guys At bachelor parties

They wanted to like Webcast me into their wedding And like have me do a toast And you came up with that man That was amazing Now I need to come up With a third idea No let's just

Let's just capitalize On that one Let's hope it's not The argue the win sex tape I don't want credit For that idea If it happens Let's do it man

Johnny Bananas Congratulations Real quick Stamps.com It's funny that That was one of your ads That's who I use To ship out All of my merchandise dude Oh look at that They are I'm not kidding you Do it, man. Johnny Bananas, congratulations. Real quick, Stamps.com. It's funny that that was one of your ads. That's who I use to ship out all of my merchandise, dude.

Oh, look at that. I'm not kidding you. Before I went to this shipping place to do it, Stamps.com, it literally is the best way to do it. You got a thermal label printer. I type it in. Bam, it pops out. Pull my stuff, and it's there, dude. You're the best.

It is. You can set up an order on USPS.com. The mail lady shows up at the front door. Jackie, she's amazing. So yeah, that's people. Do it. And follow you on Twitter at MTV Bananas? Twitter is MTV Bananas.

Instagram is Real Johnny Bananas. And I just started. I'm a new member of the Snapchat world, and that is Your Boy Bananas. I actually did a Snapchat before I got here with that, you're on a big old building over here,

your Emmy Giving Wednesday. Yeah. And I was eating a banana with you in the background. I posted that. So if you guys want to see it, check it out, Your Boy Bananas.

Bananas, congratulations. We'll see you after your seventh title. Thanks, man. Anytime y'all want to see me again, rewind this track right here, close your eyes, and picture me again. Rewind this track right here. Close your eyes. And picture me rolling.