The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 150: Andy Cohen

Episode Date: December 7, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Bravo's Andy Cohen to discuss the rise of reality TV (6:00), 'Desperate Housewives' vs. 'Real Housewives' (10:00), the casting process of 'Real Housewives' (15:00), the potential of 'Real Housewives: All-Stars' (20:00), the tag "America's gay best friend" (27:00), Bill's reality show pitch: 'Malibu Little League' (32:00), idolizing Howard Stern's radio model (37:00), the craziest matchups on 'Watch What Happens: Live' (43:00), the Brangelina split (47:00), and escapism after the election (50:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Download the TuneIn app right now and subscribe today. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network and TheRinger.com, where I wrote a big column with Malcolm Gladwell last week, and I might have another column coming this week. So you have to go to TheRinger.com to find out. All right, let's do this. Here we go, Joe. So you have to go to TheRinger.com to find out. All right, let's do this. All right, I'm here with Andy Cohen from Watch What Happens Live.

Bravo, former executive? Yes, former executive. I was always fascinated by that. You were in charge of the Bravo shows and then gave yourself a show, which I really appreciate. I didn't give myself a show. It didn't really work out that way, but everyone thought that I did give myself a show. Well, who gave you the show if you didn't give me the show? Lauren Zelaznik and Jeff Zucker gave me the show. I was doing, Lauren gave me a web show that I was doing after Top Chef and Project Runway,

which became the basis for Watch What Happens Live. So you got some reps. So I was doing the web thing. And then we needed someone to host a Housewives reunion. And my boss, Lauren, said, would you want to do it? And I said, yes, I would love to do it. Are you kidding? And then Michael Davies, who you know, came to Bravo and said, I have this teeny little

studio. And if you ever wanted to do the show Andy is doing online on the air, I could do it for very inexpensively. That's Michael Davies move. He's like a hundred, hundred millionaire. And he's like, I got this little tiny closet over here. I might be able to make it work. Exactly.

And that's how it works. Exactly. And then they said to me, do you want to do that? And I was like, yes, absolutely. And so they put it on at midnight once a week on Thursday nights. And that was it. And that was it. And so and I thought, OK, this is going to be a 12 episode thing.

And then it's going to go away. And the truth is the ratings were good. And so a, it is impossible as had a, even, even though I was head of programming, if I had gone to my boss and said, I want to give myself my own show and I want to become the face of the network, she would have said, I want you to run programming. What do you think about that? So that's, and so thankfully for me, it did well. And then they put it on two nights a week. And then there was a, and then I was pushing.

I was like, I want you to make this a five night a week show. And then I'll eventually leave my job. And that's what happened. How did, what, was there an invisible line that got crossed when all of a sudden celebrities were coming on and feeling comfortable? Cause that's a hard place to get to as celebrities. Yeah. Um, I called every favor in the book with, I happen to have some good famous friends and I called a lot of them to get them on the show during that first 12 episode thing i got sarah jessica parker and liam neeson and liam neeson exactly and so he wasn't trying to find his daughter no he was not no at that

point i think it was between taking films so he had a handle on where she was obviously you can tell by my roadhouse thing i love that genre yeah exactly, Swayze looks like he's packing a little heat in those mom jeans, actually. I thought that was the famous Liam Neeson thing, wasn't he? Oh, Liam has the biggest dick on the planet. Yeah, he's like legendary for that, right? Yes, he is. Yes. That's why he's so calm in the Taken movies.

That's why he's so calm and white? He's got such good balance. Yes. He's like a human tripod. That's exactly right. And he has long legs He's got such good balance. He's like a human tripod. That's exactly right. And he has long legs. So you called in favor. Show takes off.

But did you know you wanted to be a TV star? It just kind of happened. I wanted to be on camera at the very beginning of my career. because I gave it up quickly because I was told I had horribly crossed eyes by someone that I was an intern for at CBS News at my last internship. That and the fact that I loved- Was that just got in your head? What'd you say?

That got in your head? It got in my head. And then also I loved being in New York. And I was like, you know what? I don't want to move to local markets and try to be a local reporter. I think I'd rather just move to New York and try to get a job behind the scenes at CBS News and see what happens. And I wound up spending 10 years at CBS News. And yeah, it was great.

How'd you end up at Bravo? I kind of gave it up. I gave it up. My dream of being on the air. Wow. And I wound up at Bravo. Barry Diller offered me a job to run programming at his cable channel that he was starting called Trio, which was a channel that wound up being kind of brilliant but canceled.

And then I was offered a job by the woman who had been running Trio, who then got moved over to Bravo to run programming at Bravo. And at the time, they were starting Logo, which is the gay channel that Viacom owns. And I was like, I don't want to work at Bravo. I would rather go run this Logo channel. I was like, there's no one gayer than me. So, like, why wouldn't they hire me and they didn't hire me and it's kind of turned out i realized when i wrote my first book i had forgotten that story and then i was like wow if i had gotten that logo job i wouldn't be bravo andy i wouldn't

be writing this book i wouldn't be the house you know like none of this would have happened for me go back to trio for a second. I like Trio. Oh, you did? Trio had the old Letterman reruns. Trio had... Although they gave Joel Stein a week. And at that point I had my own comedy SPN. I was really bitter about it.

You were? I was like, really? Joel Stein gets a week? I can't... And then he played the Battle of Network Stars card, which I totally would have played. Yep. And I just felt cheated by the whole thing. And then maybe I hit Joel Stein.

I understand. Yeah. I understand. But yeah, T it was a good experiment you know that it was a great experiment it was kind of what uh to me if pbs decided that they wanted to be a little cooler and a little more high low then that's what was. It was a pop culture and arts channel with a lot of original documentaries. It was a really cool channel. You know what else hurt Trio? YouTube took off in 06. Yeah. And part of the appeal for me with Trio was like, oh, I used to love that show.

Oh, they're showing that. That's right. And then it's like, oh, it's on YouTube. That's a really good point. And then that was it. So Bravo you go to. What state is Bravo in? What year do you get there?

I got there in 2004. And what happened is they were in production on season one of Project Runway. Queer Eye had started. Yeah. So it was the beginning of the big transformation at Bravo. And then after I was there came, you know, four more seasons of runway we developed and,

uh, got top chef going. We got millionaire matchmaker flipping out the real housewives, Rachel Zoe. Um, uh, and it just starts Southern charm Vanderpump on and on and on. Real housewives.

Yeah. How does that happen? Whose idea is that? That happened through a series of events of a gentleman named Scott Dunlop coming to Bravo with home video of his neighbors in Cotto di Caso, whose hair was blonder, their boobs were bigger. And he, I don't know what his initial idea for the show was. I kind of remember that he wanted to do kind of a mockumentary kind of show. I don't...

Well, this was during the time of the Hills and Laguna Beach. This was during the time of the Hills, but these women weren't actresses. And I always loved soap operas. Growing up, I loved all my children. To me, I was like, wait a minute. These women live in a cul-de-sac. They all go to the same tennis club. They all eat at the same places.

They live in the same gated community. It sounds like a reality Knotts Landing, you know, like a reality soap opera. At the time, Des time desperate housewives was the biggest show on tv yeah so we said okay well what if we do this kind of soap opera east show from the point of view of the women you're going to barely see or hear from the husbands was the original concept it's all going to be about the women and we'll call it the real housewives and that's kind of how it started i remember there was some controversy right when like desperate housewives weren't they

mad about real housewives or it was a storyline for like a week yeah probably there was a moment also where in at the beginning of the real housewives they all hold oranges yeah and legal at um nbc universal said oh we can't do that because Desperate Housewives, they're holding apples. And and I remember Lauren Zelaznik, who ran Bravo, said ABC doesn't own fruit. We can, you know, we can do this. And then thank God we pushed ahead because then New York is holding apples and Atlanta is holding peaches.

So what do you let's go through the housewives Because I may or may not have Dabbled in that universe I think you have I have My wife liked the New York one And the Beverly Hills one Yes

We never really watched Atlanta I remember you being in Beverly Hills Beverly Hills is my favorite one Jam Yeah I really liked that one Yeah it was good I liked Who's the tall one who was, oh, I'm blanking.

Brandy. Brandy. Yeah. So I saw her in person and she was like tall and beautiful. I was surprised. You forget, like these are like some mac daddy ladies. Dudes love them some Brandy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what do you think is the best like all around pound for pound, start to finish, year one through year whatever. Just what's been the best one of all of them? Oh, my God. You're asking me to pick which city? I'm not asking you to pick. I'm asking you as a programming executive to just admit what the best one was. Gosh.

What brings the most to the table from what you want from the Real Housewives franchise? I would say New York. I don't think I can do it. I mean- Hasn't New York had the most twists and i love new york so much like i just think for me it's the funny that and atlanta are the funniest but then jersey you you just put the first three seasons of jersey up against anything and it's like a freaking it's like the godfather trilogy so it's really hard to it's really hard to discount that. You've got the just homespun connection of the OC ladies that really started it all.

And then Atlanta, which is just kind of bigger and funnier and louder and more glam than any of the rest. It's a hard thing. So Atlanta, can we say that one's the wildest? Atlanta's the number one, by the way. I want to point out, Atlanta gets the biggest ratings of all of them. And it's, yeah, it is kind of the loudest. Yeah. New York?

I would say is the highest society, almost. It takes us into worlds that No Would you say Beverly No I'd say Beverly Hills is Yeah Beverly Hills is the richest Because I live out here

I know like Half of that's like Well It's people pretending they have more money Than they do Well perception is you know Yeah I mean some of them do

Like David Foster Yes Like he really has lots and lots of money Yes that's true the other ones seem like they're kind of fudging right i mean the maloofs they owned part of the kings right that was the heyday of the bev hills one yeah yeah the maloofs you had brandy's kind of sneaking in the two sisters yes the one who's acting erratically nobody will say why who is that kim yes they've said why now? Now we know.

We kind of knew at the time, but now we definitely know. Yeah. Season five. Season four and five, I think on that. Kyle, who was the little girl in Halloween one. Yep. That's right. Which is very bizarre.

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the story that dominated the news uh for a period of months the salahis infamously crashed the white house which was uh turned out to be an explosive two-part finale of the real housewives of dc but it also happened to be the series finale of the show because the show had such a stink on it from that party crash that it was like there was no going back i actually liked that one yeah i would say worthwhile attempt. Yeah. Probably a lot of landmines, though. A lot of places you can't go. Well, yeah. Washington's very secretive in general. When you have the FBI and, you know, the government trying to look at your raw footage from the Housewives,

maybe you think, you know what, maybe we're not going to do this again. Is there a city that hasn't gotten a Real Housewives yet that you've kept circling back to and just haven't been able to talk to? You know, we wound up doing Dallas. It was kind of a really shock move on our part. We just brought out Dallas like 10 years into the game. We had been circling around Texas for a lot of years on and off. There was a moment where we— Because there's one I have.

What'd you say? There's one that I think you should do. Maybe you've done it and I just missed it Aspen I think we're ready for Real Housewives of the Silicon Valley

have cast it you have so much money there yeah it's true and we did a reality show Trophy Wives yes yet wives that are way too young

for the old guy I mean there's a lot I would be interested in I agree yeah I agree they can go to San Francisco we've casted Napa before didn't happen Napa there's a lot I would be interested in. Yeah, I agree. They can go to San Francisco. We've casted Napa before.

Didn't happen. Napa's got a lot of drinking. So when you say casted, what does that mean? It means that either we have paid production companies or casting people to go to a town and just... Like a sweep. Do a sweep. Go to the country clubs. Find groups of friends. Put them all on tape. Tell us what you find.

Do you put ads? They've done. They sometimes will put out ads saying we are casting for a group of women. A lot of times I remember I think there have been several companies who've gone to Scottsdale and said we were casting for the Real Housewives of Scottsdale, but it's never been us. We never sanctioned anyone. It was like, they're just casting and then they plan to come pitch it to us. So it's kind of weird because then I start getting these tweets like, oh, I auditioned for your show. I'm like, it's not really us.

It's someone else trying to pitch it to us. It gets a little janky. You know? Yeah. All right. us it's someone else trying to pitch it to us it gets a little janky you know yeah all right so you go to i'm trying to think of a silicon valley country club i know like are there wherever wherever the hell it is whatever like one of the rich parts of silicon valley is so you just send somebody to the country club and they're just kind of hanging around and sniffing it. Sniffing out the people? I don't understand how that works. Yeah, I think so.

I think you find people in the town who go to a lot of charity events. You start talking to them. Charity events is a good one. Yeah, I mean, you start talking to people. One thing leads to another. There's a famous story about season one of New York Housewives. We were down at Housewives. And Jill Zarin took the producer to uh polo bridge hampton polo which is a lot of people who are the type that would want

to be on a show like this and that's where she found bethany frankel so i mean you know there you go who is the mvp probably the the i'm gonna say biggest star you've had as a housewife? I'm going to say she, I'd put NeNe Leakes up there. I'd put Lisa Vanderpump up there. Got to throw Vicki Gunvalson, the OG of the OC up there. There's some Teresa Giudice. There's some Stalwarts. Jersey kind of freaked me out. I understand, Bill.

That was my least favorite one. It just got too dark for me. You want to do a pillow adjustment? Yeah, I'm doing a pillow adjustment. Lisa Vanderpump. Uh-huh. There's like a 25-year age range of, if you told me how old she was, that I would believe. Well, it's so funny that you say that.

You could tell me she's 85 and I would believe that? At the beginning, it was like, is she 70? Like it was this weird thing. Is she 40? Is she 80? I believe she's in her like early 50s. Look it up, Tommy. Early 50s?

I think she's like 50. There's no way. She's 56. Okay. So then she's 68. Right. Okay. Well, no, then she was able to change it on Google very quick.

You know web that's hard to do you know what i mean i i love the husbands which was i thought the best part of the beverly hills one was the husbands because you have ken yes the lisa husband who's walking around with the with the poodle yes he's got i don't i don't even know how to describe his hair he's open about the fact that he never has sex with his wife, which is like they might have sex once a year, which is always fascinating to me. Yeah, it's like her birthday, right?

Yeah, or Valentine's Day. See that guy, the real estate guy who's married to... Yeah, Mauricio, who's clearly very Italian. I don't know. He's a Mexi-Jew. He's a Mexi-Jew? Yeah. What does that mean?

Mexican Jew. He's not Italian? No. His name's Mauricio and he's not Italian? It's weird.'t know. He's a Mexi-Jew. He's a Mexi-Jew? Yeah. What does that mean? Mexican Jew. He's not Italian? No. His name's Mauricio and he's not Italian? It's weird. I know. I kept waiting for the huge adultery scandal with him, but apparently that's not happening. I know.

They seem to really love each other a lot. Kyle Richards. Kyle. Kyle keeps him happy. Yes. Nice kids. Some of the kids blossom out of this and become... Well, I mean, Gigi Hadidg hadid gg's like she was on

kimmel show a month ago yeah she's huge but i do like the husbands who do you think's been the most entertaining husband oh that's a really good question um simon van kampen early new york housewives was quite entertaining they're usually entertaining maybe for the wrong reason maybe you know all of those answers are wrong it's Ken Ken's the best What else would you want from Ken Who else walks around holding a small dog It's like he's a Bond villain

I know I get everything from Ken You're right What was they had that guy who was living at his house The guy who betrayed them Cedric season one yesric. Season one, yes. He betrayed them. That got weird.

Yes. How much stuff have you had to cut out of these shows because Bravo might have gotten sued if the wrong information came out? Well, I mean, they all signed releases, but yeah, I mean, there have been some tricky moments. Yeah. Tricky. That's a very evasive answer for somebody who's written

three books that's right you're saving that for book number four no i mean look yeah i'm saving it for when the show's off the air and i'm you know i don't i'm not of these how many shows are going now there's seven there's seven and there's no everybody wants us to do it housewives all stars and i'm like look when the gas is running, we'll throw 10 of them on an island for a month. And then, you know, it'll be great. Housewives All-Stars? Yeah. What does that even look like?

What does it look like? It looks like... You're putting them in, like, the Bahamas? What would the world look like if you had Tamra, Phaedra, Erica, Jane, Dorinda, and Ramona on a boat together. I mean, you know, what isn't awesome about that? A boat. A boat, an island, a confined space. Like Cabo for two months?

Yes. Two weeks. I think a confined space. Confined space. Put them in a zoo. Yes, confined space. Hot box. Hot box environment.

So when you film those reunion specials, which is really the bread and butter, there's so much you, what do you split them into? Three parts? Oh yeah. I'm like, I'm always the guy who at lunchtime, I turn to the producers and I'm like, you guys know that we're working on a three-parter now. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

We do not have enough for three. It's definitely two. I'm like, I haven't gotten to this, this, this, this. And then I'll leave and I'll be like, it is, we have three, you guys. And there have been one or two times in Atlanta where I'm like, we're looking at a four-parter. Four-parter. Yeah, we did. I think we did a four-parter once for Atlanta.

How long do you have them trapped in that confined space? That's a hot box. That's like about a 10-hour situation. 10 hours? You know it, Bill. What? Yeah. First of all, there are some spackling breaks where you got to re-spackle the houses.

There are some lunch breaks you have to factor in for some walk-offs. You have to factor in for some nipple tape. I love the walk-offs. They always have to come back. Nipple tape. They got to come back. You got, you know, sometimes around five o'clock

they want us to start popping bottles to get them through the next three, four hours. And then if daddy has a dinner reservation he starts getting cranky around seven, eight o'clock and I'll be like, you guys, I have a dinner at nine. So I

would say that would be the hardest on you. Yes. Like, do you, what's your process? Do you have like a giant, all these index cards that you're trying to remember to go through? My process is that I'm actually an executive producer of the show all season long. And I know every inch of what's happened. So I'm in. I'm in.

It's like you with basketball. What's your process? You don't need anything. You're ready to go. That is true. I don't need in. I'm in. It's like you with basketball. What's your pride? You don't need anything. You're ready to go. That is true. I don't need anything. I'm ready to roll. Go.

So you're just going boom. Do you ever feel like. Don't you think they should do reunion shows at the end of basketball seasons? Why are you not doing that? It'd be amazing. I mean, with the team. I would love to host it.

By the way, talk to the NBA. It's like, I want to do the reunion show for the Warriors this season and then you got them all together and then what's funny about

that idea I think that's actually like an amazing idea no but what's funny about that idea is it would be so great with Wessel Westbrook and Kevin Durant

and Draymond Green like Kevin Russell was really dismissive of you early in the year and him just sitting there stewing right

Russell would definitely walk off at some point and then have to come back because contractually you have to come back Russell was really dismissive of you early in the year. Right. Him just sitting there stewing. Right. Russell would definitely walk off at some point and then have to come back because contractually you have to come back. Right. That's a great idea. It is. Well, you know, they do. I know it's not your network, but they do that Basketball Wives show. Yes. Which is, it feels like that should just be on Bravo.

It bothers me. It does. It's a little more ratchet. Well, that's what I mean. It feels like you could do a better class version right right um i haven't seen much but it seems fairly one note which is just all a hundred i would say fairly is the wrong word i would just say it's right i think the great thing about the housewives is uh one of the great things if it was all one note it we wouldn't still be talking about it 11 years later it's actually actually funny and there are people that you root for and root against and people that you love and love to hate.

It's a good soap opera. Not only is it not one note, but when somebody throws a glass of champagne at somebody else on a Real Housewives show, it has real meaning. It does. It doesn't happen that often. It's really, you feel the anger when it happens. Beverly Hills, I think it's happened once or twice. Seven seasons. Right. You know what I mean? It doesn't happen that often. It's really you feel the anger when it happens. Beverly Hills, I think it's happened once or twice. Seven seasons.

Right. You know what I mean? What's the weirdest thing that's been thrown at somebody? Hors d'oeuvres? No. Just wine. Like a shrimp cocktail with some cocktail sauce on it? No shrimp. Just wine.

Just wine. Yeah. There's been a legitimate fist fight in the Jersey one, right? Jersey has had a couple fisticuffs. I got thrown by a rag doll by Teresa at a reunion once. What are you talking about? She pushed me. She pushed me.

Really? Between her and where she wanted to be. Yeah. It's an amazing piece of tape. I don't know how I didn't see that. That's incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it at least a gif? Oh, my God.

It's the gif that keeps on giving. Are you kidding me? It's the most gif. Who's favored if you and Teresa just throw down? She's a top. I would say she's favored. Yeah. I don't know.

I'm stronger than you might think. But you know what? She's crazy. You're not crazy. Yeah, exactly. You know what? I'm a nice Jewish guy from St. Louis. She wins the fight.

Well, she at least keeps fighting until seven people are pulling her. Yes, it's true. Or telling her to go away or take a walk. It's kind of amazing. Yeah, that's it. What was your reaction after that happened? You know what? I was kind of in shock and just trying to run the reunion. And I semi forgot about it.

And I remember at the end of the day, I was like, did I get pushed? And when I saw the footage in the Super Tees for the reunion, I was like, this is the, I thought it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen. I thought it was hilarious. You're like Vince McMahon. I thought it was awesome. I loved it. I thought it was great. You're like Vince McMahon. I thought it was awesome. I loved it. I thought it was great.

Well, so where does reality go? Because if you think about it now. In the Trump world? Well, I mean, all right. Well, that's a whole separate conversation. Yeah, that is. But it seems like the shows that are successful now are the same shows that were successful five years ago. Well, that's also TV.

I mean, it's harder to. Why isn't there innovation anymore let's see well lip sync battle is a unscripted big hit show is that does lip sync battle have a seven year run i don't think so um i think it's too it relies too much on who the celebrities are right they're gonna run out of that. Right. Something like Housewives, you just keep going for 30 years. And there's more cities to go to. It's a great formula because it's not dependent on one woman. We mix it up every season.

You bring people in and out. Nobody's bigger than the brand. The brand always wins. That's right. And that's like same thing with Survivor. Yeah. I love Survivor. And if Celebrity Apprentice wins, there's a case of the brand being bigger than who the host was.

I'll be up to see if it works or not. But it's surprising to me that there hasn't been really a monster reality show franchise created in maybe even this decade. I'm trying to think. MTV still has Real World and The Challenge and that's it. I don't even know if MTV still does The Real World. Yeah does there's been there's a stealth one going on right now oh really yeah okay i forget what city it is oh okay but yeah it seems like everything moved toward cooking yeah which is something you guys were in on earlier but there's so many cooking shows now yeah or trying to find you know people trying to find stuff. Yeah. Like those, those things where they open the lockers and.

Yeah. Is Naked and Afraid a big show? Naked and Naked and. Maybe it all sprinters. And then obviously you have The Bachelor and shows like that, but those are also shows. Those are old shows. Been around for a while. So I can't figure out where it goes or why there hasn't been a new one.

Yeah. I don't know. And you can't either, obviously. I can't either. Well, you're too busy. You don't have time to innovate anymore. I'm happy to be riding the train I'm riding on actually. Quick break to talk about Betterment. How should I manage my money? That's a great question. And whether you're a multimillion dollar investor, you're just starting out. The answer is Betterment. Betterment is the largest independent automated investing service managing more than $5.5 billion. For over 100,000 customers as of September 2016, their mission is to help people manage and grow their wealth.

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All right, back to Andy Cohen. Do you guys feel like you're number one? Does who feel like we're number one? Well, I mean, I'm not, I'm not in charge of programming at Bravo anymore. I think Bravo is definitely, I think Bravo has a really strong brand and they're doing, I mean, it's like, it doesn't seem like they are in any form of letting up and they've got, you know, they've got a good bench. Um, besides the housewives they have vanderpump rules and top chef and yeah southern charm and below deck and a lot of shows that have become big actually in the last few years for them so what about like so the streaming like

netflix and hulu all these things and you can get stuff you can catch up on seasons yeah is there any of the housewife shows or anything else i think the house might be on hulu yeah i think they might be on but is that do those have a shelf life in that like a retroactive that's a good question i mean i think people you know weirdly people who love the house wives they love to go back and watch old episodes yeah so and people you know i've talked to a lot of people who are like look i've never seen never seen it. Which city should I start on? I'm going to, people love binging now that it's actually not unheard of that they would say. And I'll say like, look, you know, you can't beat Jersey.

Watch the first three seasons and see what happens. You know, I think those shows have an interesting effect on the viewer because my wife who always talks about like, uh, like different shows shows they're her friends you know like sex when sex in the city finally ended she was like i'm bummed out those people were my friends yes she didn't know any of them right right she felt like no people feel the same way about the housewives a hundred percent like bethany she's like i like bethany i'd be friends with her like they just assume and i think that's been a big reason for your success yeah so then people feel like oh that's i don't have a gay friend,

but if I did, I, that would be my gay friend. I think that's, I mean, you hit it and I've heard it from so many, I'm on a book tour right now and I've heard it. When I go out,

I hear from so many women like you're my gay best friend. And I love that. I think it's awesome. And I think, you know, it's, it's, it's,

it's cool. My wife thinks there should be a match.com to match up married women with gay friends. That is a really good idea. That's like her billion dollar idea. That is a great idea. She's like, I never get to do that. I never get to do that. And it's like, there's just a website.

I don't know what that website would be called. It would be called GBF. Gay guys looking for. That's it. Yes. You could start that. I also have a reality idea for you. Okay.

I just get a co-creator thing and that's it. Okay. You can do it. Malibu Little League. Wow. So there's this Little League field in Malibu. Yeah. Right across from Pepperdine.

Okay. That's on a cliff. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's like you can't even believe this is a Little League field. It's literally the Pacific. Have you ever seen the Pepperdine campus? Yes.

Yeah. It's gorgeous. So across the street from that, there's this Little League field and then there's a cliff and there's the Pacific Ocean and it's like the end of Shawshank Redemption. Wow. Yeah. And they play Little League games there. And anytime I've ever driven by it,

I've always been like, that should just be a reality show. And I don't even have anything other than the title. What are the moms like? Are the moms driving the kids in? Well, look, you just said Malibu Little League. Malibu Little League, like right away, rolls off the tongue, right?

It does. But I mean, is it Little League colon Malibu? Because then we want to do Little League colon Pensacola or whatever the other spinoffs are. So you go Little League colon Malibu? That's what I'm wondering. I like Malibu Little League, obviously. Malibu Little League is a great title. It spoke to me right when you said it.

I knew it would. It did. It's the best idea. It did. Tommy, you like Malibu Little League? Yeah. It's really good. There's a show on... You you know somebody sleeps with the coach that happens in season one you cast the coach he's like

29 year old yes super handsome six two totally willing to flirt with the moms and you just go that's it boom totally you're off because the dads aren't showing up no they're not around the moms are in there they're showing up in the range. We're over in Malibu. So in this third book, you were pretty open about your, your, uh, your sex life and stuff. I was. Yeah. Yeah.

Ratcheted it up. I did. It's, uh, it's, uh, I, my second book was a diary, uh, of a year in my life. And I kept writing after I turned that one in. And so thinking, you know what? I bet they're going to want another one. And so much is happening that I think it's cool. It's like, I deconstruct everything from late night television to being famous to the housewives to, to dating and everything else. So I was so into writing that I was like, you know what? I'm

just gonna put everything in this and when i go back to edit the book i'll take stuff out but the truth is i didn't wind up taking out a lot that i planned on it so there's a lot of kind of sex drugs and rock and roll in the book that i wasn't planning on keeping in there and you said you were some of your friends would be upset about stories you you passed on yeah I was worried about some of the housewives and some of the celebrities on Watch What Happens Live. Some of the people I went on dates with, I'm now hearing from, whose names I didn't use.

Oh, they were upset that you didn't mention them? No, that I did. I went on a date with someone who was a bartender on my show, and it was a really boring date. And he texted me a screenshot of the page about the date and was like you know i actually had a really good time on that date i'm like okay well i didn't what's it what's it i mean when did you become famous like 2010 i became famous or i to say, it was a slow build. So Watch What Happens Live has been on for seven and a half years.

But I hosted reunion shows for a few years before that. That's when it started then. Three years. But I'll tell you when the moment that I actually felt different, like, oh, because it was this slow build. But there have been a couple moments. I remember getting recognized in the Chicago airport and I was like, oh, this is interesting because I'm in Chicago now. And it just felt different.

But the moment that I feel that people really started knowing who I was, was when Teresa pushed me at that reunion. I was in the Hamptons when it aired. I, it generated so much press and I was like, wow, this is weird. And I started getting all these interview requests and I came back into the city. I was on vacation and I came back and people all over the city were like, Hey, and coming up to me and like, you got pushed dude. Like all this stuff. And I was like, oh, wow.

I think I'm famous now. Wow. Yeah. It was weird. What's been like the peak audience for one of the Housewives reunions? Oh. Has it gotten to like? Oh, it's gotten seven, eight, nine.

No, no. It's gotten four, over four. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So how did that change? You know, cause you were pretty open about, you love to date and go out and do stuff. When you notice people are treating you differently, did it become harder to be like, do I trust this person?

Do they like me? I'm a really good judge of character. And no, I mean, it's kind of the perception that you think people would be like, oh, you know, maybe it would be different if i was straight and girl maybe and girls were i think that sometimes girls there's if you're straight there is more of a i think energy about what is the long-term goal he like oh do you want to get married do you want to be in a serious relationship and i don't think it's as heavy with gay people does what about something like tinder can you even be on i was on tinder uh and i was on tinder for the for the first diary book the andy cohen diaries and part of me joined because i thought it would be interesting while i was writing this

diary to go on tinder dates and it wasn't the thing is you both have to swipe. So, um, it's not like there were, I mean, they were random people, but they were people that I was interested in swiping on. And, you know, and to me, I was like, look, this is a way for me to meet like an architect in Brooklyn who I maybe wouldn't meet, you know, or a scientist on the Upper East side and so i'll you know some of them knew who i was and some of them didn't but i could pretty much tell and then if i met them out for a drink you know it's like look if we sit down and they immediately want to start talking about the housewives it's going to be a pretty quick date right you know so so they go right to that boom and you're like then i'm like you know what? This is not. So what should people talk to you about on a date?

I don't know. It sucks to talk about work. Yeah. I mean, I also though, I do like talking about work. I just, I mean,

you can just read a person's energy, whether it's a fan thing. I wrote a story in the new book, which is called superficial about, it was meta this moment because i was on the book tour for the other book and i was writing a diary of this book where i wrote about meeting this straight couple who i read tries to get together with me and we went out it was just it's a long story but i what through a weird series i was like yeah let's go out and so we went out for drinks and the woman was like a huge fan of mine and so it was this

weird kind of dynamic of trying to the three of us like have a flirt going and her also being like, oh my God, what's Lisa Vanderpump? You know what I mean? So wild. That's crazy. Have you had somebody come on, watch What Happens Live, one of the guests? We were like, eh, they're kind of keeping the eye contact with me here a little bit longer than...

There's a vibe going on. Yeah, I've had some moments uh with bartenders on the show and uh yeah with a couple people yeah it's one of the perks of hosting a late night talk show who is the best i by the way i always ask kimo about that even though kimo's had a girlfriend or a wife the entire time he has that show like yeah there's times there's a guest gonna come on where you're gonna have a little kinetic connection yeah with them who is like your go-to like Letterman always had oh my god I had so many go-to god those Terry Gar Letterman's Terry Gar and Sandra Bernhardt on Letterman he made Terry take a shower he did yeah I don't remember he did a show in his office and at the end of the show he did Terry Hart. She was amazing.

And Sandra Bernhardt on that show was unbelievable. You know what? Sandra Bernhardt is a go-to of mine actually. She's on my radio channel, on my Sirius radio channel. And she lives in New York and I'm friendly with her. She's a go-to of mine.

Rachel Dratch is a good go-to. I mean, obviously, I call the housewives my my kind of broadcasting role model is howard stern yeah and i feel like no one goes there in late night i feel like i go there in a way on late night in a way that the other hosts don't and i don't know that you can go there on network tv in the way that I do or how it does. You can't. And I think that I, I do. The reason I do it is because I started doing it with the housewives and then I just was

like, well, this is my deal and my shtick. So if you're coming on my show, I'm going to do it with you too. But so I view the housewives as my whack pack, like Howard Stern has his whack pack. And so they're my bread and butter and watch what happens live and then there's a whole galaxy of other people who i just love having on you know it's funny you mentioned stern because you have the same skill that he does and part of it is a skill and part of it is people know what they sign up for when they go on the show 100 they're on your show and you're gonna to ask them stuff. And it's like, that's part of the deal.

We don't pre-interview our guests. Yeah. And it's like, they're a dick if they don't answer the questions. Like, why the fuck do you come on then? Right. Right. So you have them trapped, which is how Stern operates. And he just goes in.

Not only are they trapped, but I'm live. Yeah. Like Stern is too. So I'm the only live show in late night. You can't stop tape or else you're going to walk out. Right. Which is, I mean, and by the way, I'm kind of excited for the first guest to actually leave during the show. That hasn't happened yet.

That has not happened yet. Have you felt like a guest was, almost had the deer in the headlights? Like, oh shit, I went too far. Oh, several, yeah. There was a moment where Alicia Silverstone was on with with Padma Lakshmi and Alicia Silverstone had that thing where she talked about that method of feeding your baby where you chew up the food and spit it in their mouth. I could tell immediately that she didn't want to talk about it, which would have been sign enough for me to change subjects and pivot, which I will because I don't want anyone to be uncomfortable. That's how I feel, too. Padma didn't see her eyes. And Padma was like, what?

That's gross. Why do you do that? Like, and she then wouldn't leave it alone. And I was like, oh, God. And during the commercial break, it was like because we're live. And Alicia Silverstone looked at me and I was thinking, and I think even her publicist came in and I was like, I go, I'm so sorry.

Like I, I'm off this. I'm, I'm through talking, you know, whatever. So there have been a few times like that. And the funny thing is it's fucking weird. And I'm glad you brought it up. Who choose their food for that? Oh, that's weird. Yeah. Yeah. No it's fucking weird. And I'm glad you brought it up. It's weird. Who chews their food for that? I can't remember her doing such a thing. Yeah.

No, that's weird. But it's weird to be, it's so fun and weird and interesting to be live. You know, you don't, you actually don't know what's going to happen. I mean, I could tell we went to see you, I think in 2000, it was like October, 2014, because we were putting together the Grantland basketball show, and we wanted to have a set like your set. So we were like, let's just go. I know.

Are you trying to rip my show off? No, no, no. Ours ended up somehow being nothing like your set, even though, because what I was intrigued by was, could we have the show here, but the 20, 30 whatever people, like right here. And the way ESPN does TV, we just couldn't do it. It had to be like way back.

But when we showed up, I just couldn't believe how small it is. And TV's always smaller in person. But you have everybody like packed in on each other, which you like though. You like the energy of it. We just announced yesterday that we're moving to a new studio. I saw that. I was almost disappointed. It is going to look exactly the same.

It's like moving from a Tic Tac to a studio apartment, basically. And our audience, which was 22 people, is going to be like 48 people now, which is huge for us. But it's still going to feel the same. So what do you think that does for the show? I think it's going gonna it's still gonna feel the same so what do you think that does for the show i think it's it's basically just gonna be a wash i think it's gonna be more people in the audience and it for me i've been doing this seven and a half years and so for me it's gonna be a great kind of energizing change uh but i feel like for the audience it will still feel as intimate and authentic i think that's what people excuse me love about the show it's totally authentic it's an authentic half hour in a world

of stuff that's kind of pre-produced and set up and there's a lot of pre-interviews and there's you know it's like oh you recently went to mexico tell me about that and telling the story so i love it that the guests don't know what they're going to get into. Last night I had 50 Cent and Leah Remini on. And I asked 50 Cent about the last time Vivica Fox was on. She alleged that 50 Cent was gay on my show. And that was one of those great live TV moments where I was like, hold up. What?

Right. And I was like, and, you know, and I turned to the camera in the control room. I'm like, kill the game, kill everything. I am not dropping this subject for a half an hour. Like we're beating this to death. So we start getting into it and it's a whole thing. And then 50 Cent starts responding on Instagram. It was great.

So last night was the first time 50 Cent had been on since this happened. So I'm sitting there and I said, by the way, you know, last time, you know, I got to ask you, Vivica Fox was here and she said this and he said, well, that's because I let her lick my ass. And she maybe thought that only gay guys let that happen or something. And I was like, wait a minute, hold on. And then Leah Remini is like, wait a minute. And I was like, wait a minute, hold on. And then Leah Remini is like, wait a minute. And I'm like, okay, we're staying on this topic. So, I mean, we beat this topic to death, but it was so awesome. And you know, this wouldn't happen anywhere else. You're not gonna, you know, and by the way, if I had said to 50 cents people, I, by the way, I'm asking him about

this gay thing, of course they would have shut it down and none of this ever would have happened. So it's great. So what do we think the answer is? About him being gay? I don't think he's gay. Yeah. It's a really interesting counter. Yes.

To the whole thing. And it also, it seems like a very hidden way for him to make Vivica Fox kind of look bad. Exactly. And now she is posting on Instagram. It's like she has challenged him to go and watch What Happens Live together, which is, of course, my fantasy now. Oh, that would be like your Super Bowl. Yeah, exactly. Have you had one where you had the two guests where it's almost like you're pitting them against each other in a way?

We've had two guests we've had guests on that don't seem like we've booked people purposefully that we've been like oh my god like we had jwoww from jersey shore on with james fry once or we had the author we had um we had jenna jameson with clay aiken we had dan rather and John Mayer. We had Connie Chung and Matt Harvey from the Mets. So we've had weird combinations of people that have just been fun. And then we've had other combinations that all of a sudden the show starts and you're like, oh, my God, they hate each other. And everyone on Twitter is like, oh, your guests won't look at each other.

What's going on? So you think they hate each other going into it or just it's an instantaneous? Sometimes someone will say something. I think it was Joan Rivers' last appearance. She was on with Maxim from Dancing with the Stars. And he said something to her during the, we do a live promo at like 1040 PM. Yeah. We bring the guests in for it. He said something to her during the, we do a live promo at like 10 40 PM.

We bring the guests in for it. He said something to her and she flipped on him and was like, she, and she said to me before the show, just watch, I'm going to eviscerate this guy on live television. And I was like, Oh my God,

what's gonna. And then she, and then he got her back during like within five minutes of the show he revealed to her that he was like jewish and a refugee and something something where i saw it flip and he got her back and i was like oh thank god because you know joan rivers when she turned on you there was no one more loyal and awesome than Joan Rivers. But I have seen her turn on audience members who heckled her. And also just, you don't want to piss off a drag queen with a microphone, a rabbi with a microphone, or Joan Rivers.

That's the three? Or a comedian. Or like, you know, a a comedian just be careful with drag queen with a microphone oh drag queens with a mic are brutal yeah yeah just just you write that one duck and cover just duck and cover but yeah no so that was a that was a that was a wild moment there was a moment where there was a real housewife who came on and she was sitting in the second seat there is no second there's only two chairs on my show but i have two guests at once but and she was on with a big movie star and she took

great offense that she who considers herself this big star was in the second seat and she was like shut down for the whole show and people were tweeting about it people and and and i came back from commercial break and I'm like, people are tweeting that you seem very guarded and pissed off tonight. Is something going on? She's like, no. I'm like, all right.

Who is the most beautiful person who has been on the show? The in-person that you were like just... You know what? J-Lo always... Everyone says J-Lo is the best. She really does stagger me in person. She is quite, and I've had a galaxy of beautiful women on the show,

but she definitely is someone that jumps out to me. Yeah. I like that question because everybody has the first answer. Everybody has somebody that blew them away for some reason. And it's hard for me to remember because it's been seven and a half. Everybody has the first answer. Everybody has somebody that blew them away for some reason. Yeah, and it's hard for me to remember because it's been seven and a half. It's a lot of people, but she's definitely up there. Can I ask you a celebrity culture question?

Yeah. Don't you feel like we have to be team Brad or team Angelina in this whole thing? I feel like I have to pick sides as if two of my friends were getting divorced. I feel like there's no doubt about whose side. It's Brad. She's nuts. Thank you. She's nuts.

Everyone in the ringer made me feel bad because I was like, I'm team Brad. What? He's just this dumb stoner who, he was married to Aniston. Angelina got him into her fold. Right. All of a sudden he's got six kids

four houses and you have to look at the history of her terrorizing i had a big scandal recently with merlissa etheridge who came on my radio show and started uh talking about this and started trashing Angelina. And she used to be great friends with Brad. And Melissa Etheridge was great friends with Brad. And she's like, look at Angelina's history of taking people away from their friends and then destroying and all this stuff. And she wound up getting a call from Angelina Jolie's fixer, who is the real life scandal lady,

the real life Olivia, who said, who knew that Melissa then was coming on. Watch what happens live that night. And she said, if you don't retract your statements about Angelina, we're going to go after you. And what does that even mean? I don't know. But Melissa Etheridge was all freaked out and I had run into Melissa Etheridge that day.

It's so weird and she goes I don't know what to do and and so that night before the show she wrote a song called the fixer blues and she sang it on watch what happens live and it was all about the real story of this fixer calling her did people know or they just yeah she explained it all in the story and I filled in the blanks before and after and it was kind of amazing and again that's why i love live tv you don't know what's gonna happen the brad pitt it was like oh something happened on the airplane the fbi is involved and then in four weeks i was like yeah nothing happened she called tmz and revealed all this you know i mean this was a good one in terms of people had their little sides that they had that they went to and fed information because it seemed like us weekly was pro brad pitt and they were kind of saying what his side

of things were tmz was pro angelina yeah but it was destined to fail because by the sea has been on hbo from time to time right over the last month And I actually watched 10 minutes. And it's basically like this fucked up married couple going, you know, and it's when married couples start making actual movies about married couples in trouble. Isn't that a red flag? And then Brad Pitt's next movie is he's married to a German spy. These are his two movie choices he makes. Like, of course he was having marital issues.

He knew. I think he was just home at night with this big bong, just thinking about his four houses and his six kids. And he's like, what did I do? I have six kids. Who has six kids? Uncle Springfield, Missouri. Yeah.

I got to deal with Maddox now? He's like a character actor who's too handsome to be a character actor. So he became a real actor. But really, he should have just been a character actor Who's too handsome to be a character actor So he became a real actor But really he should have just been a character actor And not have six kids Shiloh's cultural diversity class No I mean he might have more than six kids I feel bad for him though

You don't think there's any way him and Aniston get back together right? I mean she's married She's probably bitter Yeah I think that's over aniston angelina and brad we're never gonna top it no for a celebrity story i think it's uh it's the peak yes it's the peak story that we'll ever have it's true it's the most angry i've ever heard my wife and her friends really about anything right when he left just everything yeah and people forget like like angelina all the all the women were out on angelina and then she pulled them all back

because she did some really cool things you know audrey humanitarian yeah they wrote some great editorials like right all the the way she raised attention to breast cancer right and it seems a million years ago she's making out her brother and and all that stuff. I don't know where she goes now. Angelina. Yes. Is she a movie star anymore? That's the question. I mean, she hasn't.

The Lara Croft, like those type of movies, those are 10 years ago. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. And is Brad Pitt. I don't know. I mean, he really hasn't since Moneyball. He's going to.

Yeah. He wasn't very good in Allied, I heard. I hadn't seen it. I haven't seen it. Yeah. He looked pretty like good in Allied, I heard. I hadn't seen it. I haven't seen it. Yeah, he looked pretty, like, going through the motions. Yeah, I haven't seen that. She only has Maleficent, too. Oh, Maleficent, too?

Her gimmick in the mid-2000s was, I am the best looking woman in the world, and I can steal your husband in five minutes. Don't leave me in a room alone with your husband. I will take him. And I'm also a good actress. Now I don't know what in five minutes. Right. Don't leave me in a room alone with your husband. I will take him. Right. And I'm also a good actress. Right. Now I don't know what her gimmick is. I don't either.

Her gimmick is I have six kids and I got a flat in my house in New Orleans and then my house in Paris and all that stuff. All right. So your book tour, where are you heading? Where else are you going? I'm almost done. I'm going to Miami tomorrow. I'm going to DC next week.

I'm almost done. And then what to Miami tomorrow. I'm going to DC next week. I'm almost done. And then what happens? Do you write book four? Yeah, I'm going to do book four. You just chronicle your life in these books. No, I'm done with the diaries. It became kind of emotionally and existentially exhausting living my life and reporting on it for publication at the same time. And so I am done with that.

I love to write uh i love these books i'll get another idea at some point and then i'll just jam but right now i'm just focusing on watch what happens live and malibu little league and malibu little league we had that tommy's ready he's ready to do stuff with it that Malibu Little League. Malibu Little League. That's all we have. And Aspen Little League. I feel like this is the one that is the, maybe like Bridgehampton Little League. Hampton's Little League. Hampton's Little League. It's only in the real, real, like super high end. Scratch Pensacola.

It's like really like Star Island Little League on Miami. You know what I mean? I have two goals. I have big ratings as one goal. And then the second goal is the critical piece somebody writes about how we're exploiting the kids. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. That'll be great.

Oh, that'll happen. Oh, typical reality. Meanwhile, the 12-year-olds are the real victims. Those would be my two goals for the season. Yes, exactly. Andy Cohen, this is a pleasure. Oh, I forgot one last question. Yeah.

How did you get Andy as your Twitter feed? I bought it off some guy who didn't realize it was me buying it off of him. When was that? How many years ago? It was so many years ago. It's an amazing Twitter handle. When I first joined Twitter, I tried to get it. And I threw an intermediary and the guy was like, no.

And then it was bravo andy and then a couple years after that we kept offering and he wanted what i thought was a lot of money and then suddenly when i realized suddenly i was like wait a minute this actually isn't so much money and this is valuable to me and so yeah i got it awesome yeah all Yeah. All right. Well, I'm coming on your show at some point. I'm so ready. I would absolutely love it.

Yeah. I don't know who you'd pair me with and I wouldn't have a story about how somebody licked my butthole, but I think I could be a good guest. I think you'd be a great guest. Yeah. A hundred percent. I couldn't cross the 50 cent line.

Right, right. Yeah, that's fine. There are other lines that will be, is that the craziest thing somebody said on your show? No, dude, we, it is fine. There are other lines that will be crossed. Is that the craziest thing somebody said on your show? No. No? Dude, it is unbelievable. Scott Eastwood was on and he talked about, I was like, I think I said, have you ever, why did I ask him if he'd been cheated on, he was like, yeah. Remember when Ashton Kutcher slept with that girl that broke up his marriage to me more?

I'm like, yeah. He's like, I was dating that girl at the time. I'm like, what? So many people say things that I'm like, hold on. Wait a minute. And then it turns into a big thing. It's great. That's an amazing talent to be able to just get people to say shit like that. Yeah, it's great.

Only a couple people have been able to do it. And you're one of them. I love it. It's great. You must be like, ah. No, I love it. And I will be like, and I will latch onto it. Yeah.

And my viewers know. They see me. Someone tweeted a GIF of me last night listening to 50 Cent talk about this whole thing. And I was like a freaking linebacker walking into the Palm Steakhouse. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, yeah. Great. Give it to me.

Follow Andy on Twitter, at Andy. Get superficial. Superficial. More adventures from the Andy Cohen Diaries. The best Christmas gift for your lady that you will be able to get she'll be thrilled

that is a good really good idea it is a great she'll be like wait a minute how did you know that I was gonna want this book what is

what do you think is the my daughter's 11 and a half yeah but loves celebrity culture yeah and is already listening to Jam Session a podcast that we have on The Ringer.

When do you think she crosses that Real Housewives line? Well, I think it's 13, something like that. I think it depends. Again, I think it's a thing that I just, I would want it with a little parental supervision so that she understands this is not to be emulated. This is actually horrible you know about some of the behavior she has a good sense of that really she's your kid i think she knows so you know she watched some bachelorette uh-huh and i was really proud of how she reacted

to some of the things that happened that's good it was all the reactions i wanted to have i was like all right this is good it's actually i, I was on NPR in San Francisco yesterday and I got hammered by some callers who were like, your show, it's the end of civilization and all this stuff. And I was like, you know what? Look, people know the difference between right and wrong. And this is escapism and it's entertainment. And so, you know, I do think that for the kids.

Good. Yeah. I'm so proud we got through all this without talking about the election. Me too, actually. Who the hell wants to even hear about it anymore? It's true. All this other stuff's better. I know, it's true.

Andy Cohen, thank you. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it. Thanks so much to SeatGeek. That's our presenting sponsor and the only fan-friendly app for buying and selling tickets for sports and music. Drop your old ticket app. Use one bill for 2017 and beyond do everything on your phone download the free c geek app or go to c geek.com thanks to tune in premium thanks to betterment and thanks to channel

33 the ringers most eclectic podcast that figure features the most entertaining shows for pop culture wrestling gaming and more subscribe to channel 33 and all of the other Ringer podcasts on your favorite audio platform. And don't forget to go to theringer.com, where I have been writing. I wrote a big thing with Gladwell last week. I might have another thing coming this week. Go to theringer.com to find it,

and we'll be back with this podcast on Friday, the Bill Simmons Podcast. Thanks for your support. Talk to you then. I don't have feelings with him On the wayside On the wayside I don't have feelings with him