The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 161: NFL Divisional-Round Lines With Cousin Sal and Joe Buck

Episode Date: January 9, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Cousin Sal to discuss the not-so-wild NFL wild-card weekend (6:00), Aaron Rodgers's ridiculous Hail Mary streak (8:00), Matt Moore's concussion protocol (15:00), Big Ben's bad throws (21:00), the divisional-round lines (27:00), Pats-Texans (32:00), Steelers-Chiefs (37:00), and Alabama-Clemson national title picks (44:00). Then Fox's Joe Buck joins to give his thoughts on calling Packers-Giants (52:00), fandom in the TV booth (58:00), the Yankees–Red Sox rivalry (1:06:00), Jerry Jones's impressive work with the Cowboys (1:15:00), and the best possible Super Bowl matchup (1:20:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's where you can find my Friday playoff football columns and maybe even a little NBA column this week, as well as the best in sports tech and pop culture. Lots of NFL, NBA, and Golden Globes up there right now. We had a jam session in The Watch, two of our most popular podcasts. We merged them yesterday. Did a whole Facebook Live, and that's also available as a podcast on The Watch's podcast feed.

Pretty fascinating Golden Globes last night. I actually want to talk about it at some point during the podcast. We're also brought to you by The Ringer's aforementioned podcast network that features The Watch, Channel 33, The Ring NFL Show, The Ring R&B Show, Ring University and more.

Subscribe to Channel 33 to hear my new sports movie Hall of Fame series. A third show coming on Wednesday. We recorded this already. I won't tell you what movie we did, but it's coming on Wednesday. Subscribe to Channel 33's feed now speaking of podcasts we wanted to thank my friends dan pfeiffer tommy vitor john lovett and especially

my buddy john favre who i've known for almost 10 years since he was a pup for giving the ringer so much terrific content during the crazy 2016 presidential election and it really was crazy literally it was crazy it was bonkers but we love working with these guys all of us did and uh we wanted to wish them luck with their new endeavor at cricket media which they launched today they have ambitious goals and we are rooting for them good luck guys all right let's talk football All right. Well, we didn't do that well, gambling-wise, in round one. But that's okay, because round two promises a lot more stability.

Cousin Sal on the line. Not in person, on the line this time. It is so rainy and scary right now. It's like almost a full drizzle. This is like a monsoon by L.A. standards. Sal, are you okay? Is your car okay? I'm okay, yeah, but it was safer to stay off the roads.

You're right. Jeez. Calling. I mean, when it starts this kind of semi-heavy drizzle, it's really terrifying. People don't know how to handle it. We might get upwards of three-eighths of an inch here, so better be safe than sorry. People in LA, be careful out there.

Really, don't use your cars unless you absolutely have to. So we didn't love this week. The only game we really loved was Seattle. And we liked the Giants. And I do feel like if the Hail Mary doesn't happen, I really would love to see how that Giants game plays out. But what was your big takeaway coming out of round one? Other than that, those games were pretty terrible.

Well, here's the thing. And it's easy to take all four favorites. It really is. The four better teams are at home for the most part. Actually, all four better teams were home, I think. And, you know, I just look at it. Maybe you feel the same way. In college, I would take all four favorites in were home, I think. And, you know, I just look at it, maybe you feel the same way. In college, I would take all four favorites in a playoff round,

and I'd get my ass handed to me, right? Like every year. Maybe even in junior high school. I can't even remember how far back. So then you start looking like, oh, can Miami cover? Yeah, they can keep it close. They're not as good, but they'll keep it close to back up. And we did the same thing with the Giants, as hot as the Packers were.

And then you're stuck with all these underdogs that suck right now yeah i i don't know i i i don't think we were in a lot of those games like obviously the giants should have kept it closer that hail mary which needs to be renamed by the way it just can't be a hail mary anymore like do you have any ideas hey rogers well yeah I think one of the great accomplishments of his career, and maybe even the number one accomplishment other than having a brother that won the Bachelorette, is the fact that when he's in Hail Mary's situation now, it's a must watch.

Everyone else who has a Hail Mary, I feel like it's like an onside kick, or it's probably way worse odds than an onside kick, but you watch and you go, ah, this isn't going to work, but it'll be fun to watch somebody bat it down. And when it's like an onside kick or it's probably way worse odds than an onside kick, but you watch and you go, ah, this isn't going to work, but it'll be fun to watch somebody bat it down. And when it's Rodgers, I'm like riveted. I'm thinking like, oh, I wonder,

is he going to run the play where he throws it right to the goal, the middle of the goal line? Is he going to go deep end zone? How high is he going to throw it? Like I always feel like he has a chance. I wasn't remotely surprised that they caught it. When can you ever remember in football watching for four decades not being surprised when somebody catches a Hail Mary?

To me, that's an achievement. Oh, no, I can't. I mean, it's almost the same conversion rate as an extra point at this stage. It's insane. I think someone tweeted me and said it would be fun to rename it when Rodgers tries it, the touchdown attempt. So it's like a field goal attempt, but if it's too long for a field goal attempt,

this is a touchdown attempt by Rodgers. I was thinking we'd just call it Mary. Because he's not even hailing Mary. He's just calling Mary, and he's just going to basically get it done. Maybe not even Mary. Maybe just Meh. M-E-H. It's going to basically get it done. Maybe not even marry. Maybe just meh. M-E-H. It's going to happen.

Well, let's go. Let's quickly. I don't know. Why aren't the defensive should spend half their practices defending against this during the week? Because it really turned the game, right? Like, did you have the Giants weren't going to win after that? I don't care how close they got. I thought they had no chance of winning, but then when

McCarthy inexplicably went for it on his own 40 on fourth down, which I come and go on this one. It's a little bit like the blackjack that you hit against the 12 against the 2. In this case, they had all the momentum from the Hail Mary.

The Giants were looking for any excuse to get back in that game. And now all of a sudden you give it to them, you get stuffed, they score I think on the next play, and all of a sudden it's 14-13. I don't know why they didn't go for two, by the way. But I just thought the risk outweighed the reward. If you get it, great, you're on the 40-yard line. I was okay with it.

I just think the play is not great. Montgomery has put up good stats the last month, but that can't be your fourth-and-one guy. It just can't be. He's a wide receiver. He goes down too easily. Again, I know he has good numbers throughout the last month, but that's not the play.

Yeah, and that's another thing. Run better plays. Whenever they do the advanced metrics, actually, percentage-wise, it's like, yeah. Assuming that they ran a half-decent play, that was not a great play. It was a little bit like eight, nine years ago in the Pats against the Colts when we were on our own 30, which was basically one of the great advanced metrics moments of the last decade when they went for it, and they didn't get it, and the Colts scored and won the game.

And the advanced metrics community was saying, no, actually, statistically, that might have been the right play. It's like, well, that's fine, but we ran a terrible play. We ran a quick out to Kevin Falk against the wrong defense. You can't tell me that that was the right decision. Let's go through the games quickly, and then we'll end on that Giants-Packers game. What did you learn from Houston-Oakland?

Here's what I learned. Brock actually did better than I expected. And I don't know if it's because the Raiders' defense is just an atrocity and way worse than maybe we thought it was, or did Brock go to another level? It's an extra tightening of the dagger in your heart when you bet against brock and he runs for a first down on third and six and then he he does the first down motion it's like oh my god i know have you really earned that have you earned that i i deserve to lose everything i have on this game he was fired out and and oakland's d i thought they had shut down the run, maybe hit him once.

I thought the crowd would turn on him, but I think everybody realized pretty early that Connor Cook was just overmatched. And not only was he a little bit scared, they had this shot of him in the warm-ups where I would have changed my bet right away. They just showed him, and it was just he had the frozen face. I was like, oh, my God, this could be a disaster. But not only was he scared, but it seemed like Oakland was scared to use him. And everything they did was out of fear. And I just don't think when you're in a situation like that, I don't think you can play out of fear and hope that the guy's not going to hurt you

because your defense isn't good enough. It didn't seem like the Jack Del Rio type team, the team that went for two and won the game earlier in the year, like the push it down their throat kind of thing. Yeah, he's thrown screen passes and everything, like everything's going to be, you know, highly high calculation passes, although that ended up being intercepted by Clowney.

But, yeah, take the training wheels off, throw downfield, establish something early. Otherwise, you're going to lose wheels off, throw downfield, establish something early. Otherwise, you're going to lose psychologically. You're not going to have a chance. I mean, it was 18 for 45 with three picks. Yeah, I mean, once they knew he had to throw, he was in trouble. Houston's D, I thought, did everything they needed to do in that game. I still don't.

I mean, if we've learned anything over the years, it's don't overreact around one one way or the other houston's d they do have some blue chippers on that on the defense and it's you know we're going to talk about the patriots line a little bit the patriots line is going to be really high houston's defense is definitely good i don't think it's great but it's good and they have cornerbacks to cover people and they can get a pass rush. That was a game they needed. Yeah, definitely. I don't know how they got Crabtree to drop all those passes.

I don't know how they did that. That was pretty magnificent. And on the other side, Khalil Mack had 11 tackles, but he needed to get on Osweiler. He needed to sack him. Any pressure would have helped, and there was just none of that. It was just one of those games. Yeah, it was one of those games.

Houston fumbled three times, recovered all three, right? Any one of those flips the game a little bit. Osweiler made an awesome throw at the end of the first half. He hit Hopkins in the corner and set up a touchdown. It was a great throw. It was as good as any throw we've seen all weekend. So he did make a couple plays. So anyway, I don't want to talk about that game too much because Oakland, there was a really telling moment right before the game started.

This was another time I would have changed the bet. Khalil Mack was coming off the field. I think they had gotten a stop or whatever had happened. And he was walking right by Connor Cook, who was talking to Del Rio. And he almost, like, bumped into him, but he didn't give him, like, the ass slap, let's go, buddy. Come on, here we go, dude. Come on. We believe in you. He just kind of walked by him. And I remember watching that go, no,

that's not good. But you're on one team. I'm on another kind of thing. Yeah. But also like this guy, this guy is scared and he sucks and we're screwed. That was the body language doctor. That's what I learned from that. Uh, Seattle, Detroit. A wise man once told me, uh put a backup quarterback on the road in a teaser. And that was you. And then we went ahead and did it.

We had Seattle as our best, and we put Seattle with a teaser with everyone else. Miami, Oakland, and the Giants. And not only one, we had two backups in the teaser. And then, yeah, that didn't work out great. Well, I just want to say for the record that it's round one, and I just wanted to gamble on all the games. There you go. I do.

I mean, there was no bigger stay away than Raiders-Texans, probably in the last 10 years in the playoffs. But it's like, it's the first game. I don't want to just watch it. It's so terrible. So you take a flyer. We're running out of games. The other thing is, you know, like maybe we're not,

maybe don't listen to us for the informational part of the program. Maybe that's not what's important. I got a tweet from someone. This is the God's honest truth. A guy told me he got out of a ticket because the cop pulled him over and he was listening to us. He was listening to us on the BS report and the cop liked us and let him go. And that's a true story.

When did that happen? I don't know. I'll forward you the tweet, but it apparently happened last week. I mean, that's a better accomplishment for us than losing the three teams that we tease Seattle with. Of course. Right. Of course. A guy murdered a hobo and they let him go because he listens to us.

Meanwhile, classic Sim and Sal fashion. We're really in rare form. The only game we really, really liked was Seattle. That's what I mean. We put them with every teaser. Yeah, but I mean, it was like, it was the only one we were like,

Seattle's going to win. They're going to beat Detroit. And and yet we never just said let's do the money line or whatever i didn't really learn anything from that game because i went into it thinking detroit was a bad team for as far as playoff teams go and they were and yet now it seems like that's our round one overreaction team the seahawks oh they can run the ball oh they just have the old school see they look like the seahawks, oh, they can run the ball. Oh, they used to have the old school, they looked like the Seahawks. It's like we didn't learn anything from that game. They should have beaten Detroit by 20 points.

They're a much better team, and I don't know if they're going to, are they going to be able to run the ball against Atlanta in round two? I don't know. I don't think they will as effectively, but I will say this. The best thing about Seattle in that game is the adjustment Pete Carroll made. I mean, Wilson was dropping back to pass, and there was nothing there. He was getting slaughtered back there. And they're like, all right, let's run the ball to establish the pass. And luckily that worked.

Rawls went for 161 yards, and the Lions' defense was pretty soft, I would say, overall. And that's how it turned. Yeah, it is funny. These teams, they get into a situation in the playoffs where they can either fight back or they kind of roll over. And you saw it with Miami, too. The Steelers' offense reached a point where you could see Miami's defense just kind of checked out a little bit.

Yeah. Miami's defense was just awful in that game. What's crazy is that line was so high that I almost felt to the bitter end that Miami had a chance. Because, what was it, 20-6? And they had a little momentum near the end of the half. Matt Moore looked like they were going to at least get a field goal. Matt Moore looked good in that game until he almost got decapitated. But he had that big fumble.

He had to still be concussed during those, right? First of all, I don't know how the guy wasn't thrown out of the game. That was a car crash right in front of our eyes, but helmet to helmet. But, yeah, and then he fumbled, and then Jay Ajayi, I thought he'd be an impact player. He was, but only because he forced a fumble on his own quarterback.

It was right when they got into a good spot is when bad things happened for them. I think Matt Moore's brains were a little scrambled yeah i think nance and sims kind of they did it the whole game it's nance and sims are broadcasting these games like it's 1995 you know there's another time when the two defensive backs collided on that long pass inside the five-yard line for Miami and the guy was down for a while and he gets up he's being helped off by three people he's obviously not right and it's like he looks a little woozy it's like yeah we're not seeing that guy again Jim right yeah the guy has a concussion you know it's just the whole thing

was weird and I couldn't believe that Moore just coming back a play later after you've been lying on the ground for five minutes um all of it was weird I I don't know what the concussion protocol is I don't know the calls don't make sense like you had in the Giants Green Bay game Montgomery fumbles Hockley no whistle we don't hear any whistle they come in three seconds later blowing a whistle they say there's forward progress I don't hear any whistle They come in three seconds later blowing a whistle They say there was forward progress I don't know how there was forward progress He got tackled

And then he dropped the ball Then they said his knee was down I never saw his knee down Did you see a replay that made it actually seem like his knee was down? Because I didn't see it I thought his right knee was way down If you did the math on it Yeah, I did

But you're guessing though, right? You didn't actually see the knee hitting the ground, did you? But what was the call on the field? The call on the field was that his forward progress was stopped. Right. But watching in the naked eye. I thought it was down. Watching in the naked eye, I didn't see the forward.

I mean, if his knee was down, great. But there was no replay that definitively showed it. And if you're going to say his forward progress is down, you're calling that in like one-tenth of a second. Yeah, the forward progress thing is stupid. I think Montgomery knew and thought his knee was down and then just placed the ball down. That's how it looked to me.

But the forward progress is nowhere there. Yeah, I mean, that was a huge play and was basically the same kind of play as Eli throwing the ball and fumbling it as he's throwing it. And if they just said, no, no, his arm was going forward. We're not replaying this. Let's move on. It was strange.

I mean, they should have lost that game. I don't think that play gets enough credit either, only because I think the game was over and it didn't matter. If you're watching it, you're watching for the Giants to cover on a teaser or something stupid. But Clay Matthews, that was the play of the year, right? The defensive play of the year. It was over, and it didn't matter if you were watching it. You were watching for the Giants to cover on a teaser or something stupid. But Clay Matthews, that was the play of the year, right? The defensive play of the year. This guy.

Strip sacks Eli. Now, the ball goes forward eight yards, so no one heard a whistle, but everyone assumes, like, all right, that looks like an incomplete pass, so we're going to stop. Matthews, then a Giant actually does pick it up, and Matthews bowls him over and picks the ball up, recovers the fumble like 13 yards from where he strip-sacked in the first place. Spectacular play.

Well, Ed Hockley had already determined that it didn't matter if his whistle went off or not. He was just going to arbitrarily decide if the play was over. So maybe none of them knew what to do. Did you learn, like the Steelers were really good in that game. Miami's defense was not good. I don't really know what it means for Kansas City. Pittsburgh already lit up Kansas City. I will say, when they were talking before the game on the pregame show,

I think one of the guys on the Fox show picked Pittsburgh just because it was a revenge game. It was either the Fox show or the ESPN show. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. They're mad that they lost to Miami three months ago. I can actually see that logic a little bit. Like, hey, that was our worst game of the year. Let's avenge it. Now I'm wondering, does that same logic apply to Kansas City in round two?

They were humiliated on Sunday night against Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh goes into it thinking, oh, we can beat these guys. And KC's like, we're not letting them come into our house. They do that whole thing. It's an interesting wrinkle. I do think... I think for sure, but that same revenge factor doesn't play

with the Patriots and Texans, right? I think, like, you look at a blowout and, like, you know, Miami, Pittsburgh, like, we're not worse than Miami. We're definitely not two touchdowns worse like we were back in October whenever it was. Same thing with Kansas City, Pittsburgh.

But I think you look at 27-0, Houston, New England. Not only is there no revenge factor, and we're going to use that bold and bored material to inspire us, but I think that dooms the Texans right there. I think they realize, no, we're not coming back from that. The Pittsburgh's defense looked better than I expected. I don't know whether it was because of Miami's offensive line. Miami was missing their center.

They shut down Ajay. They made some big plays on the edge. I've been poo-pooing the Pittsburgh winning streak a little bit, which all the Steelers fans love to remind us of, that we're not giving them enough credit. That was the first time I was like, wow, I could – if they came into New England, that's – I'm going to be a little more nervous than I expected. The one thing I will say, we've said it week after week,

Roethlisberger throws three balls up for grabs every game. He did it yesterday. A really terrible pass near the end of the first half that the defensive end dropped back or defensive lineman dropped back, should have just caught. And then he threw two more picks. But he's throwing three balls up for grabs every game. And if I'm a Pittsburgh fan, that's still the thing I'm the most worried about.

I think they did what they had to do. They did what a lot of teams we talk about don't ever do. They went for the kill. They have a high-power offense, and they went for the kill. And the game kicked off at 1 Eastern, and at 1-21, they were up 14-0. And what did that do? That took Jay Ajayi out of the game. That's it.

He's not going to rush for 2-20 now because they're going to have to throw. Matt Moore is going to have to throw and beat you. And that's basically what happened. They held on to that lead, and good for them. But I don't know if – I think that's going to be tough to pull off against Kansas City. Probably, in retrospect, not ideal for Miami to be playing in the freezing cold weather.

Right. I think it definitely hurt their defense a little bit. It was, it was interesting that I forget which game it was yesterday, but one of the games, the ref's whistle froze. He had to put the whistle next to the heater. Uh,

Oh really? Yeah. So cold weather, cold weather teams at home, something to file away for the future. I, I, uh,

quickly on the giants game for 25 minutes, it seemed on the Giants game. For 25 minutes, it seemed like the Giants were better. And if Odell, Odell had that just murderous drop on the first drive that should have been a touchdown. They're going, they're going. All of a sudden,

Rodgers gets the one drive. He's dancing around. Gets the touchdown at 7-6. Now we're going into halftime. Who did you think was going to win before that Hail Mary? Before the Hail Mary, I thought the Giants would keep it close. I thought it was going to come down to the last drive. I really did.

I did too. By the way, 21-13, they kick off to Rainey, a lunging attempt, making sure he hits both feet in bounds. Insane. That ball was clearly going out of bounds. It was started from the 40-yard line. That was a difference maker, too, if you don't count the Hail Mary, which really turned the game. That was horrible.

And I also think I would have Odell back for every kick. I don't know why they always do it in desperation mode. Just put him back. If you're the Packers, it's like, do you want Odell back on returning kicks? No. So put him back there. Steelers do it with Brown, right? On the punts, right? Yeah.

We had to talk about the boat stuff really quickly, just because we ignored it last week on the BS podcast. I thought it was a non-story, but I think it's going to be a story basically for the entire offseason, and I'm sure as the week goes along, there's going to be some, are they going to trade Odell? Should we trade him?

Can they handle him? Is his head in the right place? He's too much of a diva. Can you win a Super Bowl? All that stuff's going to start. I thought the boat thing was a non-story. I know everyone on social media, it's great. You have fun with all that stuff.

But that's not why they lost. They up 38 points to aaron rogers i don't know what the boat had to do with that they literally couldn't once rogers corbardi came out they couldn't stop them so yeah i don't know what that has to do with the boat it is a non-story it's definitely a non-story it wasn't the night before. It was six days, right? Six or seven days before. And whatever, they're fine. It's only a story if you want to, you know, because of the media, they're going to hear about it for these players for the rest of maybe their lives or at least for the offseason.

So if you can handle that kind of thing, don't worry about it. But if you can't handle it, think twice then about going on a boat in Miami shirtless, you know, six days before. But yes, absolutely not. That's not why they lost to the Packers. Would you... I forget who was texting me this yesterday. My apologies to... Oh,

a buddy of mine who won't be... who doesn't want to be named because he works in a... he works as a sports chap. He was wondering why the team with the higher win-loss record doesn't host the round one and round two games the team with the higher one what do you mean so the raiders the raiders went 12 and 4 and houston went 9 and 7 but houston hosted the game because of i'm fine with the seeds i get it it's great but if you have that four or five, but the Raiders have won three more games, should that game be in Oakland?

And same thing with the Giants and the Packers. The Packers, they get a home thing just because they were in a division that didn't have anyone as good as Dallas. Should they host a round one game against a team that had a better record than them? And also, would it make the last week of the season more interesting if win-loss record determined who hosted the home games? The seeds wouldn't change, but higher record gets to host it? Well, first of all, before we go any further with this, I need to know who texted you. We need to know. The nation needs to know.

This is an outrageous theory proposed. So just tell us. It was, I can who texted you. We need to know. The nation needs to know. This is an outrageous theory proposed. Just tell us. I can't tell you. I'll put it this way, though. It was a Giants fan who was salty that that game was at Lambeau. So you don't like this theory? I don't know. I don't think it would have

helped the Raiders. The Raiders would have been a seven-point favorite in Houston had Carr played. So thatiders would have been a seven-point favorite in Houston had, you know, car played. So that wouldn't have mattered. I'm okay with you get a home game if you win a division. That's kind of what teams set out to do every year, to win their division, right? So they should be rewarded

with a home game. All right, we're going to talk about the round two lines, but first, download the Lyft app, get a ride in minutes for less than the cost of a cab. Every Lyft driver is fully vetted through their 10-point safety standard. They're rated after every ride. Only the best stick around with Lyft app get a ride in minutes for less than the cost of a cab. Every Lyft driver is fully vetted through their 10-point safety standard. They're rated after every ride, only the best. Stick around. With Lyft, you can tip in the app, which obviously leads to happier and better drivers.

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All right. Round two lines. What is the Saturday? What's the first Saturday game? First Saturday game is Seattle at Atlanta, 435 Eastern. All right. I guessed four, and you guessed four and a half, and the line is? Four and a half. Oh, you nailed it. Right now it's four and a half. And the line is? Four and a half.

Oh, you nailed it. Right now it's four and a half. You nailed it. Opened at four and a half and has remained at four and a half. That's what you like to call the Vegas zone. Yep. I think it's fair. I think it's fair.

Obviously, I think it's fair. I think Atlanta has to be happy with what they've seen from the Seattle team. Because I think if they can get to 30 points, if Atlanta can get to 30 points, I don't think Seattle can match that. And this also a revenge game. Atlanta was winning most of the game in Seattle, if I remember correctly. And then Seattle took the lead, and then there was a non-pass interference call.

I think it was on Julio Jones, and they lost by two. Is that right? Yes. Big game this year. Dan Quinn, former Seahawks defensive coordinator. That's big. Yeah. That is big.

Could be a long hug before the game. Maybe a long understanding hug after. There's going to be some hugs. And Matt Ryan voted first team all pro is now minus 400 to win the MVP. Rodgers plus 450. Brady 5-1. Yeah, it's a shame we weren't talking about those Matt Ryan odds for five weeks on this podcast without ever actually doing anything about it. At one point it was like plus 250.

We were just staring at it. Yeah, we could have grabbed it. Is that fair for Carr to be 150-1 and Brady 5-1? Didn't we see enough? I know it's a regular season award, so you don't count the playoffs, but I think we saw enough from that Raiders team to know that Derek Carr is the guy. That's why they had as many wins as they did. Why is he?

He played three more games than Brady, who's 5-1 odds, and he's 150-1. These are great points. I would say Ryan, Rodgers, and Carr should all be above Brady. And Tom Brady is one of my favorite athletes of all time, and I love the Patriots. But it's just hard for me to – he missed four games, and they were going to cruise to that division anyway. And when he wasn't playing, they still won three or four games.

I don't know. It's tough. No, I'm okay with either or any of those guys getting it. I just can't believe Carr is 150-1. Yeah, that's nuts. And the other three are low. That's nuts. So Atlanta, I think this is a great spot for them in general

because they win this one. Now you have Green Bay going into Dallas. You got to be a little scared. I guess the no Jordy Nelson possibilities are – we'll wait until we get to that line. But the no Jordy Nelson would be the only reason I would be a little bit, oh, no, we can cover. But this is set up nicely for Atlanta.

I think Seattle, I just think Green Bay, Dallas, and Atlanta are a notch above Seattle. Seattle is the worst team, talent-wise, and just everything in that conference. And Atlanta is the two seed and somehow ends up with the easier matchup. This would have been a fun one. I remember in the mailbag a million years back,

somebody suggested about, I think it was even for NBA, but I think I stole it for NFL too, whether in round two the team should be able to pick who they want to play, the higher seed team. Because if you're Dallas, would you rather play Seattle or Green Bay? I would rather play Seattle. Yeah. I would rather play Seattle for sure.

And I think it would be great. You make it like a press conference, Belichick. You know, it's appointment television. You can even make it a pay-per-view. Bill Belichick has to announce to the press who he wants to play. Great. And no matter what decision they made, the team that was dissed with whoever the pick was, would be totally,

it would be the nobody believes in us thing. It would be fantastic. Mm-hmm. So, Saturday night, Pat's Houston, I guess 14 and a half. I just want to say, if Atlanta plays December Atlanta and not January Atlanta over the years, they should win this game. But,

who knows what happens. Maybe this will be, we'll finally get the greatest moment in Georgia dome history. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. We've got a lot of, a lot of Goldberg. I think Goldberg even retweeted someone who said that his match was with Hogan was, uh, was the number one moment. That was the last great moment. Thecw goldberg continuing his streak pinning hollywood hogan in the georgia dome 1998 right afterwards wcw fell apart it was never the same so some

other people were saying carrie strug oh right was one of them she won she won in there and uh and there was a a million bowl games and sec games and all that stuff. But who can keep track of college football? I certainly can't. So I have the Pats by 14 and a half at home against Houston. What did you have for that one? I said 17, and it's 16. Oh, you're going to beat me this week. So I get that one.

I'm up 2-0. So basically the logic there is that it unfolds like the Pittsburgh-Miami game where if the Pats go up 14-0, Houston's got to start throwing the ball. Now you have Brock Osweiler in a position where he's got to make plays, and all of a sudden it's 28-0. That line still seems a little high to me because Houston's defense is pretty good. No way. Patriots fandom aside,

what would the spread have to do for you to put money on the Texans? Oh, it'd have to go to 40. I would take Houston plus 40. I think Vegas got slammed this weekend. I mean, a lot of teasers went away

because if you had the underdogs, and there were a couple unders in there too, but teasers went away, because if you had the underdogs, and there were a couple of unders in there, too, but especially in that last game, if you had the Packers and the over, and all the favorites all weekend long, they got slammed. So I think they're just making this high, not even trying to encourage Houston money, but

just make it a line so that people just stay away from this game. Like, let this be the game you don't bet. They're deterring us from wagering. I think the buildings are crumbling. Do you think Vegas won or lost on that Giants-Packers game? I think they got killed. I mean, because it went up Sunday.

I know it went down originally. It was like seven, went down to four and a half. But when the big money, when it has to be big money to move the line, it's Sunday afternoon, and it went from like four to five, five and a half some places. Oh, you're right. And the same thing happened to Pittsburgh, because that line moved two and a half points.

It went from Steelers nine to Steelers 11 and a half. So they got smoked on that. They had to have lost in Seattle. Seattle went up a point and a half. And what was the fourth game? And, you know, I don't know. I don't know a lot of people other than you or I betting the Raiders on Saturday early afternoon.

But, yeah, I don't think they did very well. Betting the Raiders is just like, I don't even know. It's like being at a party and somebody offers you a jello shot and you just take it. It was the first game. How do you not bet on the first playoff game? We should have stayed away. I don't have any regrets.

All right, Sunday morning. Well, there are no jello shot games this week. not bet on the first playoff game? We should have stayed away. I don't have any regrets. All right, Sunday morning. Well, there are no jello shot games this week. But what's the psychology going into this? So now we have four favorites covering. Do you go into this thinking, all right, I'm going with the home team favorites again. They're 10-2 in the last three years, not covering but winning in this round. They're, what are they, like 16-4 in the last five years, I think, just the home team winning and advancing this round.

So do we say, all right, it's going to continue, or do we say, well, there's no way this is going to happen? The road teams have to at least cover some of these. And you have Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Green Bay tried-and-true playoff teams on the road. This is a scary week, I think. Yeah, I would agree with that. The home favorites all going 4-0 last week is definitely a monkey wrench.

Wasn't it the year before? Didn't every road team cover a year ago and win one? Now we had the complete opposite. But they were better. Seattle was better than Minnesota, I think, and they covered. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh was weird. Well, I think we're going covered. Cincinnati-Pittsburgh was weird. Well, I think we're going to luck out. I think that Atlanta line is going to drop.

I think it ends up at 3.5 would be my guess. I think people like the Seattle team and almost are projecting what they think is going to happen versus what we've actually seen. Let me ask you this about the Patriots real quick. Is there a chance you sit Brady? Now, 27-0, that's substantial. You beat them early in the week with a week three on a Thursday night or something.

27-0. Do you start Jacoby Brissett? Does Belichick say to Brady, like, hey, Tom, thanks for everything. We need you to sit here. That's ludicrous. Jacoby just knows Houston. He knows the defense. That wouldn't be a slap in the face.

It's just like we're just going to arrest you. We don't want to start any problems. That's ludicrous. Maybe Hanson Jimmy. 27-0. This would be a good bet. Not to sound overconfident, although it's hard not to be overconfident against this Texans team

and the biggest gambling spread in 19 years in the playoffs. But when do you think Jimmy Garoppolo comes into this game would be a good over-under bet? Interesting. Like six-minute mark, fourth quarter, would you go over-under? There will be a stat. Does he take a snap for sure? He'll definitely take it.

If you're going to bet on the Pats plus 16, you should bet on Garoppolo taking a snap. Minus 16, yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. Or minus 16. All right, what do we have for the first Sunday game? All right, Sunday, 1 Eastern, 105 Eastern. and you should bet on Garoppolo taking a step. Minus 60. Yeah, I'm with you. Or minus 60. All right, what do we have for the first Sunday game? All right, Sunday, 1 Eastern, 105 Eastern, Pittsburgh at Kansas City.

What did I say for this? Three or two and a half? You said two and a half. I said three and a half. I thought it would be higher. I like Kansas City at home. It's one and a half. People love what they saw from Pittsburgh yesterday.

Boy, it's hard. I mean, there's a great undervalued home favorite case to be made at KC, playing home with the Tyreek Hill X factor, the revenge factor, all that stuff. Man, it's hard to talk yourself into KC in this game now. Pittsburgh just, even with the three terrible Roethlisberger throws per game, it's just, they're so loaded. It's hard to go against them. I don't know.

I'm going to be sordid of my feelings about it all week. That's a great line, though. One and a half is nice. I like it. It is pretty good. And you know what? It's harder because you watch Le'Veon Bell, and it's something you've never seen before.

It's just the way he's skipping around in the hole. He'll gain four yards before he decides to make a move one way or another. What's his average mile per hour on a run? Like six before he gets going? It's really, really weird. I think Justin Houston. Justin Houston's the key to this. If he doesn't play, Kansas City's in trouble.

If he plays banged up, they're in a little less trouble. But he needs to be a force there. Well, I know you're a huge soccer fan, so you'll totally get this analogy. He reminds me a little bit of Messi. Messi does this thing where Messi's moving as fast as everybody else, but it seems like he's going half speed. And then when he turns on the jets, it's like he's got the Vin Diesel CO2 pack in his engine. And Bell's like that, too.

Bell's moving half speed, but he's somehow moving as fast as all the other guys in the field. And then when he goes, it's like, wait a second. How did you do that? He's terrifying. I'm glad you, you know, I don't care so much that you brought it up soccer, but I'm glad you didn't reference your daughter's soccer team. I can if you want. That was a good way to start. I can if you want me to.

He reminds me of Margo on my daughter's soccer team. She plays through the ball. She goes and goes and goes. This a little bit reminds me of Una on my daughter's soccer team, actually. She had the same kind of wheels. All right, so we. I do see a lot of Una. So do we think Pittsburgh will be favored in this game at any point this week?

No, I don't think so. I think it might go the other way a little. I'm just trying to figure out how your Patriots walk out here. Was Big Ben out for the year after a Steelers last-second win or something? The walking boot after the game was fun. I enjoyed that as a Pats fan. I hope he's 100% for next year. Well, I will say this.

Very rarely does a playoff line end up in that one to two range. It usually either goes, it swings toward the road team, or it swings back up to like two and a half. But one and one and a half is not where it will end up. So people will bet this one way or the other. All right, the last game. You're Cowboys. You're boys.

Home for the Packers. Yeah. I said three. I thought there was going to be a lot of Green Bay Packers early on. You said four and a half. You get it. It's four. So said four and a half. You get it. It's four. So we tied 2-2.

You're up 9-6-4 on the year. Wow. And you win. I clinched for the year then. You win the season. Yeah. Oh, look at me. All right.

What a creep. How scared are you? You know, I went back and forth with that Green Bay Giants game. I don't think there was ever a game where I went back and forth as to who I was rooting for. You and I had the Giants on a teaser. You and I picked the Giants with the points. Yet I don't want the Giants to beat the Cowboys a third time. That makes for a miserable eight months following for me.

But, God damn, the Packers are so damn good. Like, Cobb is a game-time decision. He has three touchdowns. I know. That was incredible. I'm not much less nervous with the possibility of Jordy Nelson and Montgomery not playing. Like, he just, you know, Rodgers, what is it,

five straight games with 30 points? Like, he's going to get there. Even if he has a slow start, he's going to get to 30 one way or another. I asked Weinberger, huge Giants fan, president of BSMG. I was like, what was it like to root against Rodgers in that game? Rodgers was so great in that game. Like, what was the mood in the room? And he was like, what was it like to root against Rodgers in that game? Rodgers was so great in that game. Like, what was the mood in the room? And he was like, it was just quiet.

It was just us sitting there in silence, being unable to stop it. It was basically what happened for the last two hours of that game. And it's just scary to be in any playoff game where you don't have the best player on the field, you know? All due respect to Dak and Elliott and the O-line, all that stuff. But Rodgers is the best player in the league right now. He's been unconscious for seven weeks. And he can absolutely go into Dallas and have the confidence to win there.

And I don't know. It's not great for you. And then you have Dak in his first playoff start, which results have been mixed over the years. I remember Brady's first playoff start was the snow game against Oakland. And he was terrible in the first half. And then in the second half, an OT really came on. But, you know, it's a different animal.

Speed moves a little faster, a little more pressure, the whole thing. And it's a good one. I think that line should end up at three. I've got to say. I think Dallas should be a three-point favorite. That's what I picked. I thought it would be three. And how many people are going to take Green Bay on a two-team teaser?

Like getting 10? Are you kidding me? They're going to see that as a lock. I think they do have to move that line down. I think Dallas, with all respect to Dak, it's got to be Ezekiel Elliott's game. It's got to. They have to control time of possession. They have to keep the ball out of Rodgers'

hands and hope for the best. I don't know how you stop this team. You just made Tate really nod violently when you said it was Ezekiel Elliott's game. He totally agrees with you. Tate, who do you think wins Dallas Green Bay? I believe in Green Bay, unfortunately. Tate's on the Green Bay bandwagon.

Yeah, why wouldn't he? Here's the best thing you have going for you, Sal. Cowboys making the Super Bowl against the Patriots or Steelers would be the all-time rating splooge fest in the history of Roger Goodell's life.

And if you don't think he's going to do everything he can to make sure Dallas gets in there. Oh, I see. Oh, yeah. Oh, I think we could see both Hebners. We could see David Earl Hebner as the different end zone judges. Oh, yeah. Oh, stuff could happen. I'll take it.

You know what? You cheated all those years to get to the Super Bowl. Your team, we could do it one year. People forgive us. Pat's Cowboys or Steeler's Cowboys is the all-time biggest Super Bowl rating we've had. Yeah, for sure. So it's hard for me to believe they're just going to roll over and let Aaron Rodgers steal that from us and then lose to Atlanta in round three.

And all of a sudden we have like Pat's Atlanta. Maybe they call the pass interference in the end zone this week on the Hail Mary. Maybe, you know, there's got to be something different. Yeah, maybe Ty Montgomery doesn't get forward progress in one one-thousandth of a second because his body started to bend backwards. Yeah, you might see. I promise you won't see Ed Hockley next week. I thought he was all over the place in that game.

All right, quickly, before you go, the Don Julio Shot of the Week. It's the world's original handcrafted tequila with multiple unique tequilas, including Don Julio 1942, the best luxury tequila you will ever drink. Our Shot of the Week. I'm deferring to you on this. I'm just going to follow you blindly. Clemson against Alabama and Nick Saban, who continues to coach with the rookie level Modan and Madden. He just will not leave college and come to the pros where the big boys are.

The Alabama people get totally mad when you joke about this. They're really mad. There was some fake news about me and Mallory making fun of Nick Saban for staying in college because Mallory and I have joked about that forever. Because I'm always like, how do you stay in college if you're a great coach? Come to the pros. Why would you want to battle Belichick? And, you know, there's an element out there that believes college is the best. What's better than running the Alabama program and having all these awesome athletes?

I would like to see him in the pros again. Let's see how good he is. It's such a different thing. It's such a different thing. In a way, it's you working for ESPN and you hanging your own shingle. It really is. You call all the shots in college.

You really do. And then you get to the pros. You're going to be on a shitty team. You're going to lose 13 games, which you hadn't done in seven years as a college coach. I don't know. I don't think you could slam a college legend for not going pro.

Well, in the pros, it does seem like you need the quarterback one way or the other. Yeah. And if you don't have it, maybe not worth it. But, like, if the Indianapolis job opened up, go team up with Andrew Luck and go kick some ass. Yeah. That wouldn't be bad. When, like, Kenyon Drake is your backup running back, it's a little

too easy. So, make our pick for us. I'm going to make it very simple. I don't know if people are listening for my college football insight, but you're not going to get it here other than, before the year started, I bet the SEC team at

5-2 to win the title. And I don't know if you followed me, but I don't win a lot. So let's take Clemson plus 6.5 in the rematch from last year. Deshaun Watson puts up a monster game, and they cover. So let's take the points here. All right, that sounds like a good downhill shot of the week. On the ringer today, Roger Sherman laid out the three ways Clemson can beat Alabama. And they made a pretty compelling case.

So check that out. Cuz, we will talk to you next week. Let me just say, Jimmy Kimmel Live, Ben Affleck tonight, Ruth Nega, and Foy Vance performing. Later in the week, Amy Adams, Jessica Biel, LL Cool J, and Octavia Spencer, Cousin Salish. This Friday, I will have my bet of the year. I already know it, Bill. Okay. I think you know it too.

I already know it. And I'm going to have it this Friday. I'm at the Cousin Sal on Twitter. And maybe we'll do the podcast like an hour after the Cowboys. Yeah, maybe we go Sunday. I think we do a Sunday night podcast next week. Let's do it. Why not?

It'll be right after the game. All right. Cuz, good job by you. Good job by you, bud. All right. Joe Buck's going to call in. I want to talk to him about Aaron Rodgers and that Hail Mary and the upcoming NFC playoff games.

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Again, drinkhint.com slash BS, code BS. And now Joe Buck. All right, on the line right now, we have the same publicist, Louis K. And I had to get this guy because that was such a fascinating game yesterday. I wanted to get his take on a couple different things. He has a new book out called Lucky Bastard. I can't remember if he's ever been on the podcast before. Joe Buck, have you ever been on this before?

What, have you suffered a series of concussions or something that I'm not aware of? No, I've never been on your podcast. Not way back? I know that you rip me on your podcast from time to time, but I'm here to be present and accounted for and ready to go. You only made me mad twice. You made me mad in 03 and 04 because you were doing your job, which was to remind Red Sox fans that we hadn't won in 85 and 86 years. Correct. I'm sorry about that. It was won in 85 and 86 years. Correct.

I'm sorry about that. It was my fault. No, but you learned. Here's the thing. You learned when you did the Cubs this year. I thought you were very diplomatic with how you handled it because I know you learned from 04, right? Well, walk the streets of Cleveland and ask if they think the national announcer on

Fox was rooting for the Chicago Cubs. They'll fall all over themselves and cry and say that I was in the bag for the Cubs. But it's just a no-win. I mean, and I've learned to live with that. And I've learned to live with the, you hate my team and you suck because you don't like my tigers or whoever it is. So, you know, when I'm there, not there representing one side,

you're kind of in Switzerland, you're in middle ground and there's a no win factor in there. So you just kind of let it bounce off and realize in most cases, it's not personal. In some cases it is. And those are the people that I really fear. And I'll be running into my hotel. I've been chased in your town. I've been chased in Boston into my hotel by two drunk guys

walking out of the Beantown Pub one time. Oh, my God. In the aforementioned 2003. One guy looked at his friend. They stagger out. I'm getting back to the hotel uh after one of the games he's like is that joe buck is that joe buck and then they started coming at me and i went into a brisk walk i i had too much pride to run but a brisk walk to get to the inside

of my hotel and i avoided a pummel, which I'm very proud of myself for. I'm not surprised by that story, and I've been to the Beantown Pub at least 25 times, and none of that surprised me. Yeah, it's a good place, actually. Yeah, they got a little pool table in the back. I've been there since. Yeah, I left a jacket there once,

never got it back. So, yeah, the other time I remember being upset with you is when you got upset about Randy Moss at Lambeau. Oh, God. But you've admitted since. We're going to go over this one? No, that's it. Those are the only two times.

I'm trying to remember. You said I ripped you. Those were the two times I remember. I'm just kidding you. I know that our mutual friend, John Hamm, said, I'm on Bill Simmons' podcast defending you.

What the hell did you do to him? I have no idea. That's bullshit. He can get in line. He's on the list. John, you and Ham and Paul Rudd, all these guys,

you have like this little St. Louis Mafia thing, us against them thing going. I've noticed. Well, you do too with your little Boston. With the Boston. I know we do have the Boston thing.

Yeah. Yeah, I get it. So, you're at Lambeau yesterday. Yes. Rogers, there's six seconds left, and Rodgers is in Hail Mary mode. And you know it's coming. And I just talked with Cousin Sal about this.

He's the first quarterback I've ever seen where in a Hail Mary situation, you actually think you'd be surprised if somebody at least almost didn't catch it. What's your mindset? Do you practice the call in your head ahead of time? How do you act as that's unfolding? No, I think it's interesting. I just listen to the call. You know, those moments kind of come and go when you're doing it.

And then I was flipping around on NFL Network, and it happened on the highlight, and I wanted to hear how it sounded, because you don't really think about it that way when you're doing it. And I think what my mindset was, six seconds, no timeouts, it's third down or fourth down, I don't know, whatever down it was, you know they're outside field goal range. So Troy and I were both looking for something quick pass complete out of bounds have a shot with one second left to kick a field goal and then when he does the old aaron rogers wheel it around and load up the gun thing what came out of my mouth and i'm kind of proud it did as it turns out is that you know whatever I said nobody's better at this than Aaron Rodgers or whatever and you're right it's crazy that that

we are to the point where a Hail Mary teams can go decades without one of those things working and and they're usually a complete throwaway and this guy's hit three of them in three huge moments over the last two years and so you're right i mean it's like kind of took your breath away first of all it's friggin freezing yeah and secondly you know there it is like my god there's cobs somehow it's like he handed it to him in the back of the end zone and instead it's a 50 yard heave or whatever it was it just it's it's unbelievableyard heave or whatever it was. It's unbelievable that he can do that. And it actually turned out it was luckier than it seemed at the time.

At the time, it seemed like this planned play where he was, Cobb, go to the back part of the end zone. I'm going to hit you. But it actually, Cobb wasn't the intended receiver in that play. So there was a luck element, but when it's Rodgers, you don't even consider the luck element because he's Aaron Rodgers. How many years have you done the NFL now, almost 20? Yeah, well, I mean, I guess more, since 94. I came in with that new crop of people when the world was stunned

that somehow Fox got the rights to cover the NFL. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lo and behold, it was because they wrote a bigger check. And, you know, they bring Summerall and Madden over, and then they bring Stockton and Millen over. They bring their production teams. And then it was like, okay, we need depth. We have nobody else, and we don't want to do the, everybody stand up and pick up one network blazer to your right. And now you're at Fox. So they hired a bunch of young

guys. And like I joked at the time, it was the lucky sperm club. It was me, Jack Buck's kid. It was Tom Brenneman, Marty Brenneman's kid, Kenny Albert, Marv Albert's kid, and Kevin Harlan, who's Bob Harlan's son, who was a longtime executive in the NFL, and there we are. I'd never done the NFL in my life. I'd never done high school football. And I went out for an audition, and it went well, and they hired me basically walking out of the door, and next thing I knew I was at Soldier Field doing the Bears on opening day.

It was kind of crazy. I'm still mad at Tom Brenneman. He was mean to Manny in 2003. I still haven't totally forgiven him. I have some healing left to do with Tom Brenneman. He was mean to you? No, to Manny. He's got a little salty with Manny during a playoff

game. That's the thing. This is what you guys have to deal with. We take it so personally when we feel like the announcers aren't on our side. Collinsworth was on here two months ago and he's convinced that every city thinks he's against their team all 32 nfl cities i am too and i get the baseball stuff i it makes more sense to be in baseball and i think it bleeds over the nfl i hate that guy because you're a baseball fan so you listen to don orcillo or whoever it may be over the years and I know he's in San Diego and he's gone but you're listening to Orsillo and Remy or in San

Francisco they're listening to Kruko and Kuyper and you know they're doing it from that fan's perspective and it's like you know when the opposition scores a run I gotta base it into left field that'll score a run and it ties the game at two and then i i come there and i gotta go hey base it in the left and the game is tied at two and they're like i hate this guy he's rooting against my team well you know you know you know what the worst the worst sport for this is nba because nba has it's i don't know if you have nba league pass but it's just homers in every city including in my city tommy heintzen who doesn't think the celtics have gotten a call in 58 years

and he's he's just freaking out about the refs oh my god so then when you actually watch the celtics on tnt you're so conditioned to thinking the refs are out to get you it really takes like an hour to adjust to be like oh, oh, wait, this guy, why doesn't this guy think we're getting screwed on the calls? Oh, because Tommy Henson's in my life. That's why. Right. It's a real thing, and I get it.

And to be honest with you, I'm a victim of it, too, and I get it as the fan side of it, because the one sport I can root for my team is hockey for the blues I'm from St. Louis I'm a not John Hamm but I'm I'm a hockey blues fan and so my daughters and I we go to a lot of games I have tickets behind the net it's like I'm obsessed and when they made the conference finals last year for as great as Doc Emmerich is, and for as great as Kenny Albert, and as good of a friend as he is to me, I'm listening to these guys going, I want to hear the Blues announcers.

I've listened to them all year, and now when it matters the most, I'm listening to national guys tell me how great the Sharks are. And I don't care. I don't care how great the Sharks are. So I was pissed. As a fan, I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I get it. And it was a good education. But I don't want to come on

your podcast and just bitch and whine the whole time. You're not bitching and whining. This is a good conversation. I do think we're headed toward a world, and I don't know how many years away we are, and it might be 10. It might be 15. It might be 5. I don't know. But we are headed toward a world where you get to pick your own announcers.

And the key for me will be how the big rights holders. You saw ESPN. They mess around with it, usually with the college football championship, where they have the main telecast. And then they have basically the telecast devoted for the fans of either team. And they've tried this in soccer, too. And I do wonder if there's a world 10 years from now where you're calling the Packers-Cowboys game, and yet there's two other Fox channels on FS1 and FS2

that is also running the game, and it's just diehard Cowboys fans doing one game and diehard Packer fans doing the other game. Maybe that's where we're going. I don't know. We may be, and I think there's some merit to that. I think it really works in baseball. I think in the NFL, there really are no local announcers except on radio. Every game's a network game.

So it's a little bit different that way, but I do get it, and I think there's some merit to it. And believe me, if i'm still doing this in 10 years you can uh you can come hit me in the head with a brick and pull me out of the booth and lock the door and we'll i'll be done i'll be the one bitching and moaning to get off my lawn guy in my own house and uh and you know probably tuning into the blues john kelly and darren pang if they ever make the stanley cup final but maybe maybe that's your last act i it's funny hearing you talk about how you're done because you're still in your 40s right aren't you still in your 40s yeah but my i'm

kind of in dog years i started early i i kind of came out of the womb doing this so i love it i swear to you there people go he doesn't care he's not passionate it's the opposite you know if i'm not trying to dominate a game it's because i know people are tuning in for the game they're not tuning in for the joe buck show they're right they're they're tuning in for the game and i've joked all the time that if i get hit by a bus going into lambeau field uh first of all there'd be a guy with a big Packers jersey on driving the bus. Secondly, they would still play the game, and there probably wouldn't be a moment of silence.

And I'm at least smart enough to know that's how it is. And so people go, well, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, because we're about the same age, probably the most seminal shocking moment in the history of sports TV was when CBS just got rid of Musburger. And I think that was like 1990, something like that. It happened to him a couple of times. Right.

But that time it was inconceivable because he was CBS. And he did everything. And he had been in every, you know, you thought CBS Sports, you thought of Brent first, and then you thought about the leagues they had. And then they just got rid of him and we were all stunned. And it's like, well, guess what? They still have all the sports that you were watching anyway. It didn't affect the ratings.

It was definitely kind of an illuminating moment. No, yeah, and the funny thing about that was, it set into motion, that specific firing, an opportunity for my dad. And because Musburger got fired, CBS had just picked up the rights to Major League Baseball.

Musburger's gone. He was supposed to do the games with Tim McCarver. My dad was supposed to do the second layer game and do it with Jim Cott. Well, now Musburger's gone and they give my dad at the age of 65, the main game with Tim and it didn't go well at all. I mean, it was, you know, people, I think, finally remember my dad for a million different great reasons but i can tell you that two-year period of him doing national baseball on cbs with tim mccarver was brutal on our family rudy martzki was the main usa today critic he was hammering him every monday and and it was uh it was not a

fun time for him and consequently for his family trying to make sure that he got through that unscathed. And he didn't. He developed an ulcer and almost killed him. And all that happened because DBS abruptly fired Brent Musburger. My dad had a two-year deal with a two-year option, and he ended up doing two years. That was it. And McCarver moved on with Sean McDonough, which is, it seems like it's four lifetimes ago, but that was in the early nineties.

You know, I've heard this, this, that Joe, that, uh, that your dad, those two years of the baseball, that it went so badly. I watched all those games. I never felt like, I don't know. I didn't never felt like, oh man, this guy's having trouble or any of that stuff. But is there a possibility there was a little bit of revisionist history with that? Or you're saying that in the moment it was really that bad? I just don't remember it. No, I don't think it was bad.

I think the criticism was bad. It was at a time where there were no blogs. There were local radio, believe it or not, and TV critics and newspapers. And then there was one guy who had a national voice, Rudy Bartzki, who if you made that column, USA Today on Monday, you were holding your breath. And that was still at a time I followed. I was doing Fox in 94 and the World Series uh in 96 so i was a part of that generation too and it was that column would come out and you would just it was like charlie peeling back the corner of the wonka bar looking for the golden ticket you're holding your breath going oh

my god don't be in here this week and if you got through unscathed that's how much power he had and and he didn't like my dad and when the main critic for the country doesn't like you they had a history which is detailed in my book lucky bastard yeah amazon and then find bookstores everywhere uh when he doesn't like you you're done and and him tim didn't along very well. And Tim didn't really want to work with him. And my dad didn't really enjoy working with Tim for the most part. Tim was the big power guy at CBS at that time. And my dad was kind of like, oh, Brent Musburger is gone. Here's Jack Buck. And they never really had a true partnership that either one enjoyed. And Tim kind of won out, and then ironically enough, there I am,

five years later, paired with Tim to do the World Series when I was 27, which is just crazy to think about now. You guys love each other now, though, right? So obviously you got past him. Absolutely, but I had to pull him aside, and I don't even know. He's in his 70s, and so I'm in my late 40s, so I had to pull him aside. And I don't even know. He's in his 70s. And so I'm in my late 40s. So I don't know, whatever it is, 28 years difference, whatever the number is.

And I had to pull him aside at our first seminar and say, and I was a kid and I was a little intimidated, but I had to do it. And it was kind of just sitting there between us. My dad was thrilled I was paired with Tim because he knew I was protected against anything that could happen in a baseball game. The guy next to me had seen it, done it, played in it. And I said to him, look, I know it didn't go well with my dad, but you and I are together now, and we're going to be judged as Joe and Tim,

not Jack Buck's kid and Tim, not how was it with jack and tim it's you and me and i know it didn't go well with my dad and my dad was my best friend but we're going to have to go forward from here and i can tell you bill we we were together for 18 years and i grew to love the guy like a brother, like a weird uncle, as I used to joke with him. And we never had one crossword in 18 years. And I had his back and he had mine. And nobody taught me how to deal with criticism. Not my dad, not anybody better than Tim. I mean, I don't know what we can or can't say on here, but, you know,

it was like, oh, they're getting on you? F them. They're not sitting here. You're the ones sitting here and doing it. And until they're doing it, who cares? And I learned a lot from him, and I'm so thankful that we were put together. But it didn't start great. You could have said whatever the fuck you wanted.

Just for the record. Fuck them. I mean, fuck them. They're getting on your ass. I mean record fuck them they're getting on your ass I mean fuck them well and now it's worse because you have I mean you have 40 Rudy Martzke's out there and then you have every team blog and all that stuff but

it does seem like the one thing I've noticed with Deer Style over the years because I did feel like you were a summer all disciple in the beginning where you let the game tell the story don't get too jacked or too low. The Gus Johnson style and your style were certainly very, very different. But it does seem like in the last five years, you've gotten swept up in the moment a little bit more.

Is that fair? Yep, that's totally fair, and it's right. I think when – it's weird because when I started and I was doing Cardinal baseball, I was 21, and I was sitting in the booth next to my dad and Mike Shannon, and I didn't, I don't think, I don't think I fell into the trap of trying to sound like my dad. I was my own man, and he let me be my own man. He didn't micromanage me. He didn't, after games, me he didn't after games go well

here's how i would have done it or here's how you should have done it he left me alone and i found my own style then i go to fox and i think i'm a just one of the young guys but when troy and collinsworth and i took over for pat and john i did fall into the trap of trying to sound or trying to imitate pat summerall and you can't do it. Pat Summerall was the master of understatement, but he could do it that way. That was his style, and it worked well with Madden, who was all over the place at drawing stuff and look at this, snot hanging out of his nose and blah, blah, blah, boom, bam.

And Pat would just kind of guide it back to the center line and go second and four. Right. Touchdown. would just kind of guide it back to the center line and go second and fourth right right touchdown and and i i've started trying to do that and i was working with two big personalities and troy and chris and it carried over to my baseball and then i got sucked into oh you're rooting for this team you're rooting against this team and it just it killed me and it took the life out of my voice then i almost lost my career because of hair plug surgery right and it uh damaged my vocal cord and i went from you know thinking i got the world licked i'm done i i don't i think my career is over and when it came back after nine months i said screw it i'm going to do this game at the top of my lungs,

and I'm going to get caught up more in the moment and show how beautiful some of these moments are. And so I have evolved over the years. I've been lucky enough to do it for a long time, but I think I'm a different announcer and in many ways a better announcer now than I was when I was calling those Red Sox-Yankees-Titanic matches back in the early 2000s. And I think that's the only way you can do it. That 0-3-0-4 Red Sox-Yankees-Ollie Frazier 1-2, I just can't imagine we're going to see anything like that again.

I don't think so. The Cubs had it, but the Cubs were their own story. The Red Sox had the Cubs' story, but also had this hammer-nail relationship with the Yankees that went 80 years and seven generations. And I don't know. I just don't think we'll ever see anything like the Boone-Homer followed by, a year later, a 3-0 comeback.

As the years go by, I can't even, as the years go by, I can't even believe it happened. Like, they had something, I can't remember, I forget where I read it, but, because I went to both of these games. The Patriots played Seattle. Oh, I was reading the Belichick-Brady book over the break. The Patriots beat Seattle at home on a Sunday in 2004

when they had their streak, which I think ended up being 21 games. And then three hours later was game four. Yankees-Red Sox 0-4. Yeah, I remember that. It was the same day. I went to both of those games. It's like I don't know.

I just feel like I've peaked as a Boston sports fan. People don't want to hear it because they're like, you guys, you won all the titles. But it's like I don't know what happens now. I don't know how we beat oh how do you beat it you can't i don't know i don't know who the counter punch is going to be to the cubs and you're not going to have i mean is it going to be the cardinals is it going to be and it's not it doesn't have the same venom that yankees red sox had for as as you said, I mean, this was a rivalry that went decades, but it's different than the Cardinals and Cubs. I've lived the Cardinals and Cubs. And, you know,

believe me, people in Chicago think, you know, go to bed in my Cardinal PJs every night and wake up in my helmet car bed that's got a big Cardinal logo on it. And that's not the case. People in St. Louis, by the way, think that I've abandoned the Cardinals, and I love every team but St. Louis, ironically enough. But I think the Yankees and the Red Sox in the early 2000s, especially with the personalities involved, whether it was Manny Ramirez and Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, all those great Yankees, Jeter, Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neill.

Man, I just don't—maybe I'm just now wistful for days gone by, but I don't see that coming anytime soon in Major League Baseball. And it was a different league, too. It was very top-heavy back then. And you had that A-Rod thing, which kind of symbolized everything that had happened between these two franchises for 80 years. The Red Sox think they have A-Rod. The trade falls through. Aaron Boone hurts his knee. All of a sudden, the Yankees have A-Rod. And it's like, oh, my God, this happened again. Yet again, they've won. My whole life, I grew up, like when Yogi Berra told Bernie Williams in like the

99 playoffs, he thought Bernie Williams looked nervous and he was like, Bernie, relax. We've been beating these guys for 80 years. I mean, that was my life. I don't think baseball now that the Cubs have won. The Indians, yeah, 1948, but I think the Cavs did

help the Cleveland narrative a little bit. I don't think the Indians winning the World Series, it'll still mean a ton, but it won't mean the same. To me, it's like the big ones left now are in football. I think the Browns and the Bills and the Vikings, those three specifically. Wait a minute, you're not buying in on the Arizona Cardinals? They're the longest running.

Because they had franchise movement. But the Bills, it's like them coming back from – they haven't even won a playoff game this century. The Browns lost their team, and it's been a train wreck ever since they got it back. And then the Vikings have had five decades now of just getting kicked in the nuts. I would think those trump any baseball narrative that's left.

Well, I'd still like to see – I'd love to see Cleveland, I would think those trump any baseball narrative that's left. I'd still like to see. I'd love to see Cleveland, especially coming off this last World Series, where if I'm an Indians fan, and I know plenty of my family members. My dad grew up in Lakewood, Ohio, was an Indians fan as a kid. So I had cousins and nieces and whatever that probably wanted to punch me in the face as I'm screaming and yelling for the Chicago Cubs. But I would love to see it because it's really a great city. And it's really, in many ways, a very pretty city when you fly in there

and by the lake and, you know, great suburbs. And now the downtown's picked up some and the new stadiums are terrific. They're just waiting for the Browns to catch up and for the Indians to finally do it. I would personally love to see the Indians end that drought. It's been too long for an organization that back when I was starting, and you know well, I mean, they were loaded, loaded, and they just never got it done.

And, you know, they took a team to seven games of a World Series in Florida and came up short. But, man, that was a team that was certainly worthy of winning it all. Yeah, there's a couple that are now entering the it's been a long time and like the Astros and the Rangers, I think, are two that the Astros never get mentioned in the tortured fan base conversation. but they've now been around for, I think, almost five decades and they've had some tough hits over the years. You don't think of them as a tortured fan base,

but I would definitely put them in there and same thing for the Rangers. But I still think, I still think the, uh, the Bills, Vikings, Browns, those three, the kind of gain steam. and I'll tell you another one it's going to be really we'll wrap this up in a second but I'm sure you're calling Cowboys Packers this weekend right? Yes

So the Cowboys now it's been 20 plus years since they met anything and you have all these Cowboy fans now that are under 30 that have never really made the run before. And it's going to be really interesting. And how amazing is it?

Yeah. How amazing is it that they've stayed the most relevant while they have been since Aikman left and since they had that run. Yeah. They've been, up until this year, basically a 500 team. I mean, almost exactly 500 cumulative numbers. And yet, as you've seen the articles, no team on network television brings the audience of the Dallas Cowboys,

and no team has as much interest. And I would submit to you that it's because of the owner. I mean, Jerry Jones has kept that team relevant for whatever reason, whether it's the little feuds that have gone on, the Jimmy Johnson thing started it, they went to the top of the mountain and couldn't coexist. And then Aikman is phased out and the triplets are gone, and now they try again.

But, I mean, that team, there have been stretches where they've been terrible with, like, Chad Hutchinson, a quarterback, and different guys that shouldn't have been in the NFL probably or weren't capable of being a leading man on a stage like that. And, my God, they have the most relevance in the NFL television ratings-wise. I mean, it's undeniable. So he fascinates me. Jerry Jones is the GM and the guy that will kind of say kooky shit.

Now they've kind of backed up his plan. I mean, when did he get credit for being the GM that's put this offensive line together and took hits for drafting a running back as high as he drafted Ezekiel Elliott. People thought that was a bad pick. And look what he's done. And the stadium. I mean, he made two of the great business decisions in the history of the league. One was just what he paid for the Cowboys.

And just he knew he was buying a brand and it was, you know, he wasn't looking at what he was buying more like what they meant, which was super smart. And people really weren't totally thinking that way in the eighties. And then, then the stadium is, you know, one of the great, one of the great things that has been built by an owner in the last 30 years. And it's a spectacle and it's freaking awesome. I think he'll, he'll go into the, into the hall of fame potentially this year.

And I think you could look at, Hall of Fame potentially this year, and I think you could look at whatever business Hall of Fame there is. Jimmy Johnson, even at the height of their I don't like you, you don't like me relationship, said if I had $1 left in my pocket, I would give it to Jerry Jones and say make something out of this. This guy is a forward-thinking business genius. You may not like him as a GM. I personally think he deserves a lot of credit for this team. But, man, as far as forward-thinking people in the NFL, the money he's made the other owners from these TV deals where he and Kraft,

but he's kind of taken the baton forward even more. And with these stadiums that are being built, multi-purpose, multi-event across different sports, holy God, that guy has made money. And he was flat broke when he bought the Cowboys in 89 to the point where when I interviewed him on my direct TV show, I talked to his daughter, and she said, I remember him being so stressed. We were at the family dinner table, and he was raising his water glass to his mouth to drink, and his hand was shaking so much,

the ice cubes were clanking against the side of the glass. He was a wreck. Wow. And look where he sits right now. It's remarkable. What Super Bowl do you think Fox wants? Do you think they would rather have Cowboys Patriots or Cowboys Steelers? What gets a higher rating?

I don't even know. I think Cowboys Patriots, if I'm going to go along with this line of question, I will answer your question i i think you know we we get accused as we've already talked to a ridiculous length on this podcast of who you're rooting for and all that i don't care but i think the average fan knows brady and belichick and it might jerry jones and the cowboys jerry jones and all stuff. So the hardcore football fan, it doesn't matter. But if you're looking for what rating is the NFL, and Fox in this case, just because it's our turn in the three-team cycle here,

at the end of this year where everybody's been talking about ratings, and ratings are down, and why are ratings down, the casual fan probably knows the most about the cowboys and the patriots and and i think that that has to affect a rating but beyond that who cares i i think we're in a position where all the matchups for the most part would be compelling yeah Yeah, Rodgers, the Cowboys, the Pats, the Steelers, even Matt Ryan. I think it's a pretty nice one. How about Kansas City? Kansas City, and then I guess...

I think they're a fun team to watch. Of all the national games that I saw coming out of the AFC, I'm going to watch a Patriots game, and I found myself locked in on a Chiefs game because of Tyreek Hill, because I love the quarterback, I love his story, and I really like the head coach. So to me, they're a really fun watch. And they're only laying a point and a half at home against the Steelers, and they're an underrated watch too. Hey, last question, then we get to go. Aaron Rodgers, watching watching him yesterday is that the best you've seen a quarterback play in a game

you've announced or is there somebody who's still a little bit higher that he's he's consistently the best i see because not only do you combine you know everybody talks about now i'm not qualified even though most guys who aren't act like they are about the release the quick release and you know what he does with his arm but with his legs there's layer number two and with his mind and the way he kind of i think he's a very intelligent legitimately intelligent guy you can see that because he won celebrity jeopardy and you know that there's a level of intelligence there where he looks at a game from a completely different angle. And so now you see what he does, and it's well documented. He has rules.

We asked him, how do you catch all these teams with too many men on the field? And he'll tell you where the ball has to be. It's got to be inside the numbers. It's got to be away from the opposite from the team's bench that they're playing. And then he's looking for different clues as to are they running guys on? Are they running guys off? So he's developed that into a skill that it's fun to watch Aikman talk to him about it because, you know, the wheels are turning and Aikman said, man, I never thought about that. So you've got incredible arm, a complete mastery of an offense,

legs that kill you when everybody's covered. And then what he did inside the pocket, dancing around yesterday for that first touchdown was unbelievable. And he just, he will let the play bleed down. And he'll take a sack every once in a while. He took sacks yesterday. He shouldn't have taken. He got lulled into He shouldn't have taken. Yeah.

He got lulled into a false sense of security. But he also scored the first touchdown because he was willing. The third touchdown because he was willing to let stuff develop and risk a sack and hit the touchdown. And then all that offside stuff, he's the best I've ever covered. The thing that's great about him is he kind of solves the other team as the game goes along. He had problems the first

25 minutes in that game yesterday, but it's almost like a boxer. Andre Ward is the best at this. Andre Ward somewhere between the first round and the sixth round kind of figures out the other guy and how close he can get to him and just what's going to work and not work and roger's the same way but you could see it midway through third quarter

he's like all right i figured it out these guys are done and then he just does it it didn't matter that jordy nelson was out he's just like i i know what to do now i'm gonna do it and that was it i think boxing's a good is a good comparison because there's a feel there It's more than just let's go to the sideline and look at the tablet and look at what guy. It's when he's in there and stuff's flying around, there's a feel with his feet of where to go. And he's aware of what's around him, and he's aware of who he's looking at in the secondary

and where his guys are. And then their scramble drill, which we get a chance to watch in practice, is like a choreographed mess. And it looks sloppy, and it looks like, well, you know, the play broke down. And there are times that Devontae Adams told us in our meeting, there are times in practice where the first guy will be open and Aaron won't throw it. And he'll let the play break down.

And then they go through their rules, what to do to come back to him to get open. He's looking for the big strike. He'll forego the 9-yard completion, the 12-yard completion for a 48-1 because that's what he's looking for the home run all the time. And that's pure feel. And that's the artistry of a guy like Aaron Rodgers. And Brady, your guy Brady has the same feel. There's an intelligence there that you don't get with other guys. Yeah, and Peyton Manning had it too.

And going way back, Montana definitely had it. But it is definitely something that separates the great, great, great quarterbacks from the great quarterbacks and it's a select yeah and i didn't cover payton enough i didn't do a lot of those games this was afc and i i got into the nfl at the end of montana i did one of his games in kansas city but that's a guy i would have loved to have get gotten known as a player and not as the Skechers pitch man or whatever he is now. I know him when I see him around, and he's a great guy. But I wish I could have sat in a production meeting with him and kind of go through what he's looking at.

But I don't know that they can even explain it. I don't know that they can. Aaron Rodgers can't sit there in a meeting room and tell you how you know, how he found, I don't know, who was it, Devontae Adams for that touchdown? He can't tell you how. It's just, he has a feel when he's in the moment that other guys don't have. And that's what greatness is. Well, please come back on before the Super Bowl. Joe Buck, lucky bastard. That's up to Louis K. I know. Well, I'll negotiate with our publicist. But Joe Buck, Lucky Bastard is the book.

Cowboys Packers this week. NFC title game next week. And then the Super Bowl. Good luck with this run of awesome football games here. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate it. All right. Thanks for coming on.

Yep. All right. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Thanks to Joe Buck. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Thanks to Joe Buck. Thanks to Seeky. Buy and sell tickets on your phone by downloading their free app right now. Thanks to Channel 33. That's the Ringer's pop culture podcast that features Jam Session,

the Masked Man's wrestling podcast, our gamer podcast, and as of this month, my brand new sports movie Hall of Fame podcast with Chris Ryan, as well as Bachelor Party with Julia Lippman. That's our Bachelor recap. Subscribe to Channel 33 and all of The Ringer's other podcasts on your favorite audio platform. And good luck to Jon Favreau and company on their Pod Saves America podcast, which launches this week.

Talk to you later in the week.