The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 170: Sports Movie Hall of Fame: 'White Men Can't Jump'

Episode Date: February 1, 2017

HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan and Rembert Browne to discuss ‘White Men Can’t Jump,’ the fourth inductee into the Sports Movie Hall of Fame. They cover Woody Harrelson’s hustling tactics (6:00), Wesley Snipes’s height (11:00), Rosie Perez’s polarizing character (17:00), the essence of pickup basketball (26:00), Woody’s fashion (30:00), Wesley Snipes’s career trajectory (37:00), the black actor championship belt (44:00), 'New Jack City' power rankings (48:00), and the premise of the remake (52:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Kevin Clark, Danny Kelly, and new Ringer addition Mike Lombardi doing Super Bowl podcasts all week. Subscribe right now on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, before we start, I was supposed to do a podcast with Tracy Morgan today, but it turns out I have severe strep throat. I think all the stress from the Patriots winning the fifth Super Bowl murdered my immune system.

I don't know what happened. So we head to Audible. We taped a White Man Can't Jump podcast for our Sports Movie Hall of Fame series, which usually runs on Channel 33. We are running it here on the Bill Simmons podcast, so you can get a taste of what you're missing if you haven't downloaded any of the podcasts on the Channel 33 feed that we've done, or if you haven't subscribed. So check it out.

This is me, Chris Ryan and remember Brown breaking down white men can't jump for the sports movie hall of fame series. Hey, doing everybody. My name is Bill Simmons. I'm with Chris Ryan. Say hi, Chris. Hey, what's up? This is the fourth installment of the Sports Movie Hall of Fame,

America's favorite new podcast of 2017. We did Jerry Maguire. We did Moneyball. We did Any Given sunday which one do you think got the first the most feedback for the first three i think that moneyball did i still think we play really well with the sloan conference guys today's white men can't jump a movie that i have had a very conflicted relationship with uh over the last almost 25 years, I saw it in Worcester, Massachusetts with Jacko and Joe House, actually. Rosie Perez on a 50-foot screen was both delightful and scarring emotionally.

She's the most polarizing figure in this movie. It's a great basketball movie. I hadn't seen it in a while. And I had the same reaction you did when I watched it a couple days ago, where you're watching the first 35 minutes and you go, wow, this is unbelievable. It's so good. That first 35-40 minutes with just the first 19-minute scene, then the second basketball

scene, then the third one. Really great. And then after that, really depends on how you feel about whether I can't jump. But let's talk about the first 35 minutes. Opening scene is, I looked up after it was over, it was at the 19 minute mark already. It's unbelievable how long that is. And you don't ever notice it.

Right. I personally don't. It moves so nice. It's almost like a Broadway play. There's three scenes within it. There's the first two-on-two scene with Wesley and the guy who rolls his ankle. And then there's all the mama jokes. And then Woody really comes into it

with the end of the two-on-two and then the three-point shooting contest. So it's almost like a mini television show within that first 30 minutes. Right. So the plot of White Man Can't Jump, it's basically a playground basketball movie that morphs into Woody Harrelson

just repeatedly losing his money. Yeah. And that becomes the pervasive part of the movie. But I think that doesn't fit. Did it feel that dated to you? I think some of the rhythms of the jokes felt dated, like the idea of stopping everything to have like a circle of insulting each other,

which is not altogether different than what happens in like a Judd Apatow movie where like a scene will stop so that Jonah Hill and Seth Rogan can just, it becomes a roast. yeah but um even with like the fashion and even although the fashion like a lot of the fashion has kind of come back into style it's true the basketball feels very uh real to me and very current like all the way the way that they play feels really real and i just think that the um i felt like it was a very the thing that jumped out at me about the rewatch was it is such a good la movie so good it's like the side of la you just don't ever see really and like it's dirty and people are living in these apartment buildings that are like pushed

off of like you know the off the road and weird parts probably culver or whatever i think culver city comes up on this podcast a lot there's some crunch ah there was all kinds of stuff we started you can sit down with us come on in remember brown joining us um so yeah it opens with woody and venice early in the morning with these guys singing and it is like the cleanest nicest version of venice i've ever seen in my life and if that venice existed all the time we would all be there every weekend unfortunately it is that so do you know much about like how realistic is like the culture Venice I've ever seen in my life. And if that Venice existed all the time, we would all be there every weekend. Unfortunately it is that. So do you know much about like how realistic is like the culture around the courts out in Venice like that?

Do you know much about that stuff? I don't, I don't, but I would imagine it's not that realistic. I mean, it's not the cage. It's not like the New York, the New York courts or the Rucker or something.

Right. I mean, I'm sure that I'm going to get roasted by West coast basketball people right now, but like I've lived here for 14 years and I love basketball and I was on or the Rucker or something, right? I mean, I'm sure I'm going to get roasted by West Coast basketball people right now. I've lived here for 14 years, and I love basketball, and I was on basketball shows that were on ESPN, and nobody at any point ever said to me,

did you get to Anna Venice yet? It just never happened. But it sets up with Wesley Snipes, who we'll get to later. Sidney Dean. A lot of trash talking is Sidney Dean. I can't even really describe his basketball game. But Billy Hoyle ends up, played by Woody Harrelson, ends up scamming him for $62.

And that sets off this chain of events. But we go from that basketball game to then Snipes follows him home, they team up, and then Snipes double crosses them. It's all good. It's really nice beats. But I want to talk about that 19 minute scene for a second. The Yo Mama jokes, you seem like you feel like they were dated. I thought they were

fantastic still after, like almost like created the Yo Mama joke universe, right? Yeah, Kadeem Hardison, we'll be referencing this a bunch, but I think the first year of Grand Line, Thomas Golanopoulos did an oral oral history of white man kensho but kadeem hardison takes a lot of credit for like the explosion of your mama jokes after this movie i mean like a little bit yeah they're i mean like they're still funny it's just like i think that we're used to a different kind it's in a weird way it predates it's it's very much like that improv comedy that we're

used to now where it seems like everything is off the cuff it's just that like that improv comedy that we're used to now, where it seems like everything is off the cuff. It's just that like, I can't imagine ever being in a situation where people were like, we're going to stop everything that's going on for 25 minutes of sustained mother jokes. It's also funny. Like what trips the line, like your mother's an astronaut and like, that's the fight.

It's like, my mama ain't no astronaut. It's like, I was just like, that's not that insulting. That is true. Yeah. I's like, I was just like, that's not that insulting. That is true. Yeah. I felt like this was like an early,

there's a lot of these pre-internet movies. Yeah. And this is definitely one of them. Like the way everybody kind of goes at each other is eventually just would take place on a message board. Yeah. And there's also like when that first scene, there's some stuff about like Sydney taking Michael Jordan to the hole.

Like Michael Jordan came out to Venice to ball and Sydney scored on him. And I love that pre-internet mythology. There was all sorts of stuff about it. There was no way to check it. I'm not even sure if it happened, but in Philly you'd always hear about, I heard Iverson came out. I heard Iverson came by the courts. Just wearing shorts.

Yeah, exactly. Iverson came out. Put a mint coat on. Take it off. Seriously, yeah. He was wearing a starter jacket and scored 33. Yeah. So at the time, seeing this in 1992, Wesley Snipes, you knew him from New Jack City, basically.

And he was Willie Maysays in Major League, which was a big movie back then. And then he was in New Jack City. He was in a couple of Spike Lee movies. But there was still room to grow with Wesley Snipes. Hadn't totally figured him out. And this is probably his best movie, I would say, just in terms of the Wesley Snipes. The full scope of the Wesley personality. Yeah, I guess.

Everything likable and interesting and mysterious about him is all in this movie. It's also his charisma on 100 in New Jack City. It's his charisma on 100 in a dark and evil way. And this is like, the most important thing about con man movies is that you can see yourself being conned by that person. And Wesley, to Ron Shelton, writer-director's credit, it's not

like a straight con movie. It's like these guys who are hustling each other, but they eventually kind of team up and fall apart and come back together. But you can see yourself get seduced by somebody like Wesley Snipes and believing like, I need to help this guy. Huge charisma. Unbelievable. We're going to talk about

he did hold the Black Actor Championship belt for a couple years when Rem comes in. We're going to talk about that. So he's there. We have a little background with him, but not enough yet. So still discovering him a tiny bit. And then Woody Harrison was basically Woody on chairs and and that was it it's still at a time when like the tv movie chum is so hard for for guys yeah it's like wow woody harrison's in that movie

that's weird i only know him as woody the bartender and you know for anybody young listening this cheers was one of the three biggest shows of the 80s and 90s and was just a massive massive pop culture everything. And it was hard to break out of that. And he was playing somebody on Cheers named Woody Boyd. And I think a lot of people just associated him with that role.

So even if he was going to break out of that, he talks about in that oral history, it was a hard time finding movie roles. And he's like, maybe I'm just going to be on Cheers forever. And this was a role where he got to play somebody a little dirtier a little bit more dark than woody boy but still had some of that like kind of dorky charisma that he has so that was one of my revelations was he's fantastic in this movie he's i would say this is he's been in some good movies and had some good roles, and this is his best performance.

And not just that, you know, we're researching on the internet some people who might have gotten this, and like, Keanu Reeves was... So Keanu was pretty close, it sounds like. It sounds like they wanted him, and... That's a disaster. He just couldn't play basketball. Couldn't play basketball. And they were just like, there's nothing we can do about this.

That hasn't stopped a lot of other people from being cast in sports movies. Yeah. But yeah, he could play basketball. I think you can hide an ability. You can do just stunt doubles in football, as we saw with the replacements probably. Which you can hide it. You can do different stuff. You can cut away in baseball.

Pitching, you can hide it. Sure, yeah. I don't even remember. Freddie Prinze Jr. and Summer Catch. Yeah. Tim Robbins. Well, he alleges that he threw his arm out, but I don't think he can pitch. Okay.

Yeah. Sorry. Costner threw like 150 000 pitches and for love of the game and was fine his rotator cuff was um but yeah so denzel was in the mix for the sydney dean part but i didn't want to share it he wanted to malcolm x instead so wesley gets in there but um but witty harrelson not only revelation not only the best person who could have played that role really really good hoops player yes yeah it's just no denying it you watch his game and it's like a little there's a little like zach levine chase budinger yeah he's definitely

he's got the he's a gunner and it it feels like he's just with a nice hand yeah nice rhythm and a little bit of a point forward. Could guard bigger guys. Yeah, he could slide up or slide down. That was one of the flaws in the movie is as they keep playing these different teams that they're trying to hustle, and then they go into the two-on-two tournament, and they could just... Woody Harrelson can guard guys of all sizes.

He's like Draymond Green. How tall is Wesley Snipes? I mean, 5'9", 5'10". Because he's doing some pretty incredible leaping out of the sky to block guys. He dunks at one point, which, you know, if you create a scale of most improbable dunks and Ed Norton in American History X, the reverse two-hander is at the very, very, very top. Yeah. Snipes just casually goes flying in for a dunk here in one of the pickup games they also shot

it a nice little camera angle shooting up at them yeah they shot it a couple of these scenes they shoot it at a different frame speed so that um they basically like it does slow-mo in a really nice way yeah and there's a wesley snipes 360 layup that would not ever work in any competitive basketball game in America. No 360 layup has ever gotten off on a playground where anybody was trying to defend it. There's another one where the guy is going in for the layup and turns around to look at Woody Harrelson and then does this crazy flip. There's a lot of slow motion to basically but that being said the basketball there's very i think this hoosiers i i think it's the best basketball like in terms of like you're right there with screens being set you can feel guys like popping open but i mean

we'll get to it later but they they fuck up the last scene the last big basketball scene at the tournament or the last last one the last one okay um too much slow motion and here's my biggest nitpick with this movie is the soundtrack i love the soundtrack well but if you listen to the soundtrack for that last game first of all where's the hip-hop how are there not like two rap songs or hip-hop songs in this movie part of it is like the 92 part of it is that hip hop is still breaking into the mainstream so that I feel like it's like a funkier version of the Midnight Run soundtrack and in that so I just feel like

that's exactly what it is you're right it's like that Danny Elfman like and it works for what it is I actually kind of enjoy it I would have loved to have just thrown in because if they have like a black sheep song in there it's it would be great like i would if there was like a choice is yours like scene in this in this movie that would be amazing i don't even know if that's

a 92 song or if it's a little bit later but like it just would have been incredible well one of the reasons i love above the rim one of many is is they just casually sneak in big pimpin yes by snooping the dog pound yeah for like two minutes at one point but it kind of that song belongs to that specific era and there is a really nice 91 to 92 hip-hop slash rap era there's like a couple songs they could have just pulled out yeah give me like the perfect basketball song from late 91. You could have gone super early Tupac at that point. Yeah. I mean, you could have had something like, you could have had like scenario playing or

something like that. Yeah. Somebody. Yeah. Or even like if they had done PM Don, I wouldn't have been upset. I don't think those guys would have been listening to PM Don. I don't think the guys that went to get jumped. That's what he was doing.

So in this game, we would compare him to a little Zach Levine. Short Dirk. Short Dirk. There's a lot of elbows. There's a lot of contact. There's a lot of fades. Oh, I got it. Marco Bellinelli.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was in a European game. It's pre-European, yeah. Billy Hoyles. Yeah. Really like Guillermo Hoyles. And so he has this story where he was playing college ball, and he had been paid to take

to throw a game by some gangsters the Studi brothers I can't imagine how much money he lost them that you just had two guys with a bad haircut trying to kill you for a whole movie the Vig was running in every movie in which somebody owes a gangster money the Vig is outrageous

there's like this insane interest rate I mean I understand that's how the mafia works but um that's that's one of several plot lines that you're like wow this this movie really turns into these other plot lines after a certain point the biggest we're gonna get to i'm sure being rosie perez's jeopardy run yeah we'll get to that we'll get to that later on there's there's a couple things that happen in those first 25 minutes. One is that, did we reach Pete Kadeem Hardison? Yeah, well, I think first season Different World is pretty incredible,

but this might be. That set it up. That was like his Michael Jordan in the 80s run. That's him at UNC. This is the three Pete. Different World is Kadeem Hardison at UNC. This is the three-peat. Different world is Kadeem Hardison at UNC. I think he laid the groundwork for at least three careers of three

Wayne brothers. I'm not sure which three. Also has an incredible... My favorite Kadeem Hardison line in Why Women Can't Jump is definitely when he... This is a larger point I need to make. I can't believe inflation now where the amount of effort these guys are putting into like 60 bucks

is mind blowing. But it's like in that movie when he's just like, can I borrow $20 from Canadian Hardison? He's like, I can't give them money. He's like, we'll go to Sizzler. It's like go to Sizzler after. I remember thinking like,

damn, Sizzler must be awesome. I was upset we didn't have a Sizzler at the Erickson College. Yeah, that led to his greatest land, which was the We Go and Sizzler. We Go and Sizzler. But yeah,. Yeah, that led to his greatest line, which was the We Goin' Sizzler. We Goin' Sizzler. But yeah, and the Yo Mama jokes, a couple of them are funny. I played that scene for my son, who has been rattling off Yo Mama jokes that he's been

finding on YouTube for three years, and he was mildly impressed by a couple. I feel like Yo Mama jokes really were such a line. It gets shown in this movie but like for something that was such a competitive and group act like nothing pissed people off like making fun of each other's mothers so people would like really get pissed off like really fast when that would happen i remember a couple of fights i went to a quaker school and there were still fights in school over that well you know the other thing with youtube i think that whole scene just goes on youtube and then people wouldn't have thought as inclined to watch the movie.

But back then it was like the movie just moves in these different pieces. Rosie Perez comes in. She'd been in a Spike Lee movie. She was in Do the Right Thing. And then I think she was in one other one. But another one that we hadn't totally discovered yet. One of the most polarizing sports movie characters of all time rosie yeah yeah i even re-watching and i am not a big rosie perez fan um by about the hour 15 mark it's just tough the voice is tough and just it's just i know

you feel this is a it's either a generational difference or like because i think it matters when you just like rosie perez i do like rosie perez you do like yes uh she's she she was great and do the right thing and she was amazing and white man can't jump and i think it's like when i saw this movie i was uh just like on the edge of puberty you know like i'm just getting you through well i think so she gave me the shove i needed it was like that for me yeah but i was just like i thought that that was also for me when i saw this movie i remember being like so this is what relationships are like like when you get a girlfriend this is like billy hoyle and gloria is we're just screaming at each other and having sex yeah and i was like that's great that sounds like that's what so that's what

adulthood is gonna be like it's just screaming on each like, that's great. That sounds like, so that's what adulthood is going to be like. And then it turned out it's just screaming at each other. Yeah, that's right. And there's no sex. Yeah, so I really enjoy her in this movie and then I think the cool thing about this-

Wait, can you hold on to Rosie's thing for a second? Sometimes we like to do fake basketball stats or fake stats for characters. Okay.

Woody Harrelson, to me, this is like a Durant performance. This is like a Durant at Golden State performance. Very efficient. 13 for 18. Yeahant at Golden State performance. Very efficient. 13 for 18.

Yeah. 12 rebounds. No turnovers. Just phenomenal. Rosie is, it's like she's Jamal Crawford, but it's Jamal Crawford when Chris Paul and J.J. Reddick are hurt. And it's like, I'm going to play Jamal Crawford 45 minutes. You get a lead pass alert.

It's like Jamal Crawford is going for 50 points. You're like, what the hell? Rosie, I think in a movie like this is, is meant to come off the bench and carry a couple of scenes, maybe hit one four point play, which would be either one of her nude scenes that she has in this. And then, but, but I just don't need her for 45 minutes. I think they, it should have been more of a male bonding, buddy-buddy.

It's basically a buddy-buddy cop movie with basketball, right? It depends on how you look at it, because for me, this movie is basically like The Sting meets Bull Durham. And I do think that it's obviously a great sports film, and it has just some of... But in Bull Durham, Sarandon, to me, is perfect. But Crash Davis disappears for like 30 minutes. But Sarandon's great in that movie, and she's the co-lead.

I think the leads to me in this movie are Snipes and Woody. And that's certainly... And Rosie Press should have come in a couple times, but not dominated. I guess I just appreciate that it's unique in that. It's unique in that the story goes on off the field kind of thing. And that's like, in sports movies... I like when we disagree. Yeah, I know.

And I just think that this movie is very like divisive last 40 minutes because it's pretty dark and also he doesn't get the girl and there's no basketball and there's like just like a real 25 minute long jeopardy scene and a lot of unanswered questions like so they play this one game oh no they played against this guy who stole who basically snookered them out of money but then they go back and he's like if you hit this half court shot hook shot um i'm a guard on the lot where jeopardy is and snipes is like he'll get you in right i'm positive that's not how jeopardy works i'm pretty sure although it was 92 who knows he's playing basketball and hustling for money all the time he's got another another Jeopardy contestant to get in here.

So she gets in and she wins. But back then in Jeopardy, you just kept winning until you lost. Yeah. So she's only on one show. But she has a whole thing where she's like, I'm going to go on Tournament of Champions. There's an annual thing. This is the one time I wanted more Rosie Perez. I want to know how many times did she win?

We should have had a sequel that's just all about Gloria going through Jeopardy. Did she win six times. Yeah. I want to know how many times did she win? We don't know. We have to, we should have had a sequel that's just all about Gloria going through Jeopardy. Did she win six times the tournament champions? And she was also going to become a daytime soap opera actress. That's what her dream is when she's out there.

A lot of Alex Trebek. Mm-hmm. Probably a tiny bit too much. It's a strange. Oh, Rem's almost ready to get in, I can see. Oh, you ready? Come on in.

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Promo code B-S. Back to the podcast. So you asked a couple minutes ago. We can keep talking about Rosie. But I remember the thing about this for me was that it's 92 and uh like i'm in school in philly and hit and um hip-hop is just starting to like kind of really go mainstream i'd probably been listening to it since definitely since uh raising hell but run dmc but it starts to get like bigger and bigger in 88 in my mind and just becomes this music that i'm obsessed with beastie boys are big but that's actually a good point so

like native tongues tribe called quest de la Soul is all happening, Public Enemy is happening De La Soul could have been in this movie it's a very Native Tongues movie to me but one of the things that was so meaningful about this movie to me was that like obviously there was this collision of black culture with the white mainstream that was like at once

lucrative for hip hop but on the other hand had a lot of inherent issues and this movie kind of confronted those head on it's about race in a way once lucrative for hip hop but in the other hand like you know had a lot of inherent issues and this movie kind of confronted those head-on like it's about race in a way that is actually pretty honest and confrontational and and and funny and it's like one of the last times where you almost like were like watching a movie about race and laughing right you know like this is This is Rembrandt, Janius. I agree. Good. It's better. It handles race without being heavy-handed about it. And it's why it's better than every movie that is trying to be about race in the past 20 years.

It's embarrassing. It's almost innocent when you go back and look at it. And you're just like, these are just all the problems in the world are going to get worked out on this Venice Beach pickup game. Well, there's another part, and this was the era of Bird being the best player in basketball, but also being white, and the Celtics being the white team,

and the Lakers being the black team, and all that stuff. And it trickled in a couple other movies, like the Spike Lee thing, but it also trickled in when you played. When I would play, if I ever played in a thing where, you know, we were the minority of the white guys,

they would call us like Liam Beer. They would call us like these derisive white guy player names. And so it was always this undercurrent friendly though. It was just part of the basketball thing. And I love that white man can't jump tapped into that. I don't think people do that anymore. I actually really basketball people. Hey,

come on Liam Beer. A couple of things ruined my basketball abilities like for one thing not going left being able to go left yeah being short slow and having no vertical jump but one of the things was people calling me mullen when I was on the court and mistaking it that I thought like well I guess I'm just a knockdown shooter so I would just shoot every time and people were just like stop picking me. Disappointed. Yeah, they're like I thought you were Mullen and I'm like

I didn't say I was Mullen. You said I was Mullen. You anointed me Mullen. I never said I was Mullen. Another 80s basketball thing in this movie is Raymond who's the funniest character in the movie.

The Raymond scene is one of the great sports movie scenes. Raymond going back to the car for his other gun. It's amazing. Tries to commit a liquor store robbery.

He has a knife. He's a straight razor. I'm shooting everybody. he's a straight razor. I'm shooting everybody. He's a straight razor. He's played by Marcus Johnson, who in the late 70s was Milwaukee's best player. Milwaukee almost made the finals with him as best player.

Going back further, was UCLA's best player. Got traded to the Clippers. Like, he was a real guy. What were the Clippers like back then? He got hurt when he was on the Clippers. He was San Diego first but clippers curse i would compare him to like a better paul milsap oh oh yeah like he was can you imagine paul milsap like walking around with a straight razor so marcus johnson was really good and then to see him in this movie it's like it would be like if Bernard King had played Raymond he was like at that level

it's like oh my god that's Marcus Johnson and he has this killer scene in this movie yeah we were talking about your mama jokes earlier

and if you ever want to just like rattle someone in 2017 can you imagine just like hit them with like a mama joke

like no one knows what to do with themselves it's amazing I've done it in the past two weeks it would be like one of those fights where like

immediately the people who are fighting start crying because like it's too emotional like you ever see like a bar fight and then you look and the dude who like

either started like the guy who started the bar fight is crying and you're like are you okay man like well my son still throws that mom of jokes

Rem where do you stand on Rosie Perez I love Rosie Perez okay in this movie not too much I thought her usage rate was too high no I mean I

you know I don't need to tell the same puberty story twice it's already happened once Perez. Okay. In this movie, not too much. I thought her usage rate was too high. No, I mean, I, you know, I don't need to tell the same puberty story twice. It's already happened once. Yeah. It's like, it's like Rosa Perez is like a formative, a formative person. Like, like, thank you. White man can jump. Thank you. Spike Lee.

Thank you. Um, I also think this movie has like, I, I, I don't know if you've already covered this, but I'm going to get this line wrong, but it's a Sidney Dean quote where he, I think he's like, just because you put a cat in the oven, don't make it a biscuit.

There's a lot of like very poetic trash talk where it's just like, you know, like it's hard goddamn work because of this like you imagine somebody trying to set something like that up and it's just like yeah yeah and just be like dude what are you doing like you know like i don't mean to brag but um but speaking of sydney yeah it's unclear how he made money because at one point he mentions the or the maybe the wife mentions, or he mentions to her,

he's got the roof thing, the cable thing and the paint thing. And he's got basketball. Yeah. Yeah. So apparently that's how he was making his money at the time. And basketball looks like a $4 an hour job. Because when you're out there on the court,

if you make 50 bucks in a game and are you splitting that among five guys or three guys how many hustling opportunities do you have this is the thing is that when I watched this game I thought like my two thoughts coming out of the late 80s and the early 90s were that the two most attractive jobs in the world were pickup basketball hustler and minor league baseball catcher

thank you Ron Shelton that's definitely why I was like I just want to be a 40-year-old catcher in Durham, North Carolina and be like with Susan Sarandon. That looks like an awesome life. So imagine how messed up my reality was because I saw this movie really early

and then went straight into idolizing and one mixtape. So I literally was like, the only job I've ever wanted if I want to be a successful man in this world is be a pickup basketball player. The only difference is Have you ever tried to hustle someone

at pickup basketball? I have absolutely hustled. I've gone out and hustled. I've never in my life been able to hustle anyone. I've hustled people in pool. Have you really? How? So you pretend to be bad and then play well? Yeah, you miss a couple and then you pay for money and then you say i've like i've like i've like i've like been like i

had a friend who would like pick me as like a doubles partner and i would just start stretching like i like didn't have give them the chunk man but not in basketball not in basketball. Not in basketball. So it's... Oh, go ahead. Sidney throws the game. Are we okay with that decision? When he doubled... Billy Hoyle took $62 off him and he double-crosses him for $1,700. It seemed excessive is my point. I mean, I thought...

But that's... I remember when that happens. My heart breaks. It hurts. It hurts? Yeah. It really does hurt. Made me not like Sidney.

Also, like, disgraced the playground pyramid a little bit. That is true. A little shoeless Joe Jackson-y. Yeah. But that's what cons are all about. You've got to get to the long one. How do you feel about Woody Harrelson being able to guard players of all shapes and sizes, including some 6'8 guys?

I think Woody Harrelson... My favorite thing about the movie is that he's so much better than Sidney. Yeah. Well, all right. Let's... Let's just go there. Let's just all right, let's just go there. So by all accounts, Wesley Snipes was a very good athlete who had no idea how to play basketball, and they taught him.

And if you watch carefully, and this is my number one flaw of the movie, Rosie Perez getting too much usage being number two, he's not a basketball player. And the stuff that he's doing, like, first of all, here's how you know he's not a basketball player. the stuff that he's doing like first of all here's how you know he's not a basketball player compare his game to a basketball player

what player would it be? I just compared Woody Harrelson to 17 players video game Stefan Marbury I don't know Baryshnikov

I know like he like what he's doing is so theatric it's beautiful that's why those slow motion shots work

I think that's the only way they could shoot him is in slow motion it's beautiful like he but those slow-mo shots work I think that's the only way they could shoot him is in slow motion it's beautiful like he but like he carries every single dribble

like not that you would call that Marcus Johnson must have been like oh my god guys come on yeah like the

he carries more than anyone like the exaggerated like top of the key fake bounce pass like don't they're beautiful or the

the no look throw over the head. Woody looks like a good player. Yeah, that one's great. But Woody, I thought, little Marco Bellinelli, little Zach Levine for Woody, somewhere in the middle of there.

Definitely a European game. The other side of it is that Wesley Snipes looks like the best basketball player I've ever seen. Look the way he cares. The double tank top Is like a look I'm still trying to do Woody's fashion

Has gone on to Influence generations of people To the extent that if you walk out To Silver Lake, Lowe's Fills right now Half of the population dresses like Billy Hoyle But Wesley Snipes is so iconic And no one can

really pull off biker shorts short shorts uh two tank tops and a like a lance armstrong cyclist hat flipped up he also pulled off always bet on black as the passenger 57 tagline which i really don't think more than two other actors could have pulled off from a straight face. And I think maybe kept it for Blade also. So you're comparing to Eric Bledsoe if Eric Bledsoe just lost his mind and started carrying

and doing no look passes but had that same kind of body. Yeah and if Eric Bledsoe was shot in slow motion and everybody else was in it was like a Beastie Boys video where they shot it at two different speeds.

But also dressed like a member of Jodeci. It is one of the most iconic looks. Could you go out dressed like Wesley Snipes in that movie? Not you, but just any human being. Could you go out in public and fit in without people staring at you twice? I feel like yes. Yeah, I could not, but yes.

No, not you, but I think you'd have to. I've heard a story that when ray lewis used to go out to like clubs in atlanta sometimes he would just wear like like under armor like shorts and like a tank top and like if they ever gave him trouble he would just give them a look like you know i'm like you know and then and they let him in word on the street is that uh colin orcutt the head of video for the ringer dressed up as billy hoyle two halloweens ago that's pretty amazing are you giving a documentation of this all colin would have to do is wear a pair of shorts and an orange sweatshirt though you know like i want that parental advisory t-shirt that he has here's the

thing i wanted to talk about though bill is the uh scene the tournament i wanted to talk about the whole tournament sequence but specifically their arrival and the the scene that basically where he's like are you like gets he tries to get sydney mad where billy hoyle tries to get sydney mad why does he do that did we ever figure it out yeah he's basically like you need to get locked in you need like you play better when you're angry and he's like you know the greats always always play better than you're angry and that's when he gets into like i can hear jimmy and he starts yelling at at sydney and like he's yelling at um dwayne martin and his co-co like his teammate but then sydney's just like you gotta stop you're gonna get them angry and he's like no i'm gonna get you angry because you play better

when you're angry and they start doing that and that was like so we were talking before about youtube and putting the yo mama jokes up on there. That was back like when you could tell the power of a scene and like how funny or amazing it was, was by how often you and your friends would basically just like reenact it in high school hallways. We got to just basically just do an improv, impromptu version of this white man can't jump scene. And we would do that for like all the movie scenes that we really loved, you know? And that was like the only other one that got as much burn as that like i can't even think like we're like beverly hills cop or 48 hour scenes that were just so mind-blowingly funny that you could like you had you only do them justice by like basically reenacting them

my only my only example is chappelle like literally like like you had to watch chappelle because the next day like you'd have to know how to do an entire we would do that too with the live in color too like we were coming on monday and i had moments like that yeah but like from You have to watch Chappelle because the next day, you'd have to know how to do an entire role. We would do that too with Live in Color. We were coming on Mondays. I'm saying SNL had moments like that. But from a movie, yeah. It's hard to think of, okay, we need four people to act out this entire scene.

Yeah, and you just would do screaming and pick up games. Every time they would hit a shot from 1992 to 1993, I can hear Jimmy. I can hear Jimmy. It's just like I still, in my mind, can hear that. You know what I would have loved? More of that tournament, unless Rosie Perez. Tournament goes by too fast.

All of a sudden, we're in the finals against Dwayne Martin, who then runs it back two years later and above the rim. Dwayne Martin doing double duty. Has Dwayne Martin become an agent? Is that a thing? He's like an agent now? Am I making that up? He might be.

He's Will Smith's best friend. Is he still? That kind of became he became Will Smith's best friend. Let's just move on. I will say, I heard y'all talking about Kadeem. Kadeem. Yeah. What's Kadeem up to?

I don't know. I think he, I saw him pop up on that show. Real house husbands of Hollywood. Really? Kevin Hart. Really? Yeah. I've seen 12 of those. I will say.

I'm just going to do a Kadeem IMDB while you're talking. I think the Wayans brothers took his corner. Wesley Snipes as Sidney Dean and Kadeem as Dwayne Wayne. Like Dwayne Wayne. Like those are two of the most like iconic, like black actor characters looks of all time. The flip glasses Do you just get enough credit?

He's a legend I mean like those two like that movie and that show That's how I knew I didn't have enough black people in my life growing up because when they spun it off, I liked it. And it was like, oh, nobody's watching that.

And meanwhile, it's like this iconic show. Also, nobody was watching that back then. It was like 22 million people watching it. More people watched one episode of A Different World than ever watched all of Girls put together at any time. And it's just like, yeah, nobody watched A Different World. What a cult hit. A sophisticated take to always have is to like A Different World more than Cosby Show. It's a good take.

It's a safe take. It's a good take to have. But even before all the stuff. So I have a couple important questions. Yeah. Billy Hoyle, Gambler's An probably wouldn't have been a bad idea another thing about this movie that's tough especially when you're young

is understanding the self-destructive streak he has I don't like that I like when movies promote gambling like in Hardball with Keanu Reeves when the big bet saves everything I'd rather have gambling be positive I don't like when people lose stuff when they gamble have to fake their deaths

what's the McConaughey? Two for the money. Two for the guy who gets the lines. We need more positive Gammick stories. So he definitely was a Hall of Fame bad gambler. But is Rosie Perez an alcoholic in this movie? Who drinks wine from the bottle? I thought it was vodka.

But then she has a bottle of wine. That's fine. No, no, that's fine. They're living in a motel in Venice. She's sneaking drinks for herself, though. What are they trying to do with that? I mean, I think living with Billy Hoyle is probably stressful. It's stressful studying all those almanacs for Jeopardy, too, man. That's true.

Yeah. And when they moved to LA, wouldn't that have been enough to get away from the bad guys in Louisiana? The Stucci brothers? Yeah, I know. The Stucci brothers? Yeah. You're just going to find her?

I don't know. This is also like pre-GPS, pre-looking people up on the internet it's like rosie prez is on twitter like i'm just roller skating through venice studying for jeopardy dropping geo tagging yeah so what did they just go to every i guess they must have just like gotten word that that's where they had run to it felt kind of cartoonish yeah it's just like like in a cartoon like the the bad guys just are always chasing after you but that scene though at the end where she's just like, if you gamble away my money, that's it. And he's just like, it's the last time. And he thinks she's going to still be there and she isn't.

It's like, that was a very adult thing to watch in 1992 for me. I was like, wait, that happens? Skated away. Yeah. Let's take a quick break to talk about Lyft. They've been in the news lately. I started using Lyft after they made a deal with LAX. All you had to do is download the

app and you can get a ride in minutes, 24-7, for less than the cost of a cab. That sounded great to me. Every Lyft driver is fully vetted through their 10-point safety standard, including criminal and DMV background checks. They're rated after every ride. Only the best stick around. And with Lyft, you can tip in the app, which obviously leads to happier and better drivers. Nine out of ten Lyft rides get a perfect five-star rating from the passenger. It's also the highest-rated ride-sharing app. And it's your buddy if your car is in the shop, if you had one too many beverages, or if you're my wife and you ran over a pothole for the 200th time, people are actually getting rid of their cars and relying on Lyft to get around.

And you know what? I don't blame them. So, hey, you might be excited to download Lyft this week for reasons that are in the news. I will let you Google them. Right now, Lyft is offering our listeners a special deal. Get three free rides up to $10 each. That's up to a $30 value when you enter promo code Bill Simmons. That happens to be my name. Download the free Lyft app today.

Enter promo code Bill Simmons in the payment section. Three free rides up to $10 each. What do you have to lose? Try it out. Lyft. L-Y-F-T. Back to the podcast. White Men Can't Jump.

Best title ever for a sports movie? Unconditionally. It's incredible. I was trying to think of a better one, and it's always like Rocky. No, Slapshot, Major League. Great movies. Eight Men Out.

Nice movies. White Men Can't Jump Is an amazing title It's arguably One of the best movie titles ever They don't make movies Like there aren't Like they talk about that Where like

They made that And they were like Are people gonna feel like This is too edgy And you know Ron Shelton talks about this Where it's like The film studios

Weren't as conservative Because they weren't As backed by like All these major Financial conglomerates Or like you know Investment funds or whatever So they could kind of take chances and that's why they went with you know wesley snipes instead of denzel washington and rosie

perez instead of holly hunter and not holly hunter as gloria i mean i know it would have been a different character it would have been amazing if holly hunter just played the same character or played the character from the piano yeah but it's like a pretty edgy you know cast and like just the fact that they called the movie White Man Can't Jump in 1992 was like everybody in my knew was just like snapped to attention when we heard that

we were like what is this movie about it'd be called something so corny now it would be called like Rules of the Game basketballs of beach yeah right well you know the other thing that happened was all the foreigners that came into the nba more white guys from just basically everywhere europe russia whatever but like from 80 to 92 the white versus black nba conversation was always a conversation you know a little like what we talked about

earlier and it does feel like that was an edgier title then now it'd be like what man can't jump we'd be like what are you talking about like and you could just list all these different what are you talking about you guys never seen mario hazonia you know what if they made a football movie called uh black man can't pass that would be your 2017 precious take Of the person About black quarterbacks Is this a black guy in Texas Just being like

Shows up at a high school football game He's like I'm a quarterback Would that be a hot take in 2017 When this movie came out That white man can't jump Yeah that's the problem You wouldn't say that about that I feel like somebody Would write that piece

I just And we would mock it I think You know what the problem is Is that white people Got too much respect In basketball now I completely agree

That was my point I completely agree With all the Europeans And the foreigners I completely agree It was like Larry Bird And nobody else had respect Maybe a little John Stockton

Mark Price Mark Price could shoot And you know I bet It's the most pissed about That white people Got so much respect Larry Bird Larry Bird definitely

Why do you think Larry Bird's like drinking A case of Coors right now. Just be like, you know what I had to do in the 80s to get this name? It was basically just him. So, Woody Dunks, they admit it was a nine and a half foot rim. Yeah, so my favorite part of Goliath Opus' oral history is the fact that it sounds like that set was large scale side bets and prop bets on people playing horse

with them fitting some shooting of a movie inside, like all out gambling addictions. Everything I've ever read about Woody Harrelson suggests that he's one of the most fun people to have in your life. And if you're on a movie set with him, it's just constant. Even on Cheers, those guys were just drinking all the time and betting. I'm pretty sure just in the your life yes and if you're on a movie set with him it's just constant and even on chairs they

were like those guys were just drinking all the time and betting and i'm pretty sure just in like the the the majesty of woody harrelson there's a david blaine special where he's like doing a trick on kanye and they pan the camera and woody harrelson's just there also i'm like i just want to know more i always want to know also just like, every time Woody Harrelson is put into something, no one's ever just like, are we sure we need it? Like when they cast Woody Harrelson in the Han Solo movie to be Han Solo's mentor, 99.9% approval rating. Nobody was like, are we sure Woody Harrelson

could be Han Solo's mentor? It's like, no, that makes complete sense. 100%. So here's what this led for Woody. Wayman can't jump indecent proposal i'll do anything i don't remember that one cowboy wake uh natural born killers money train money it's a trilogy for snipes and harrelson if you go back to wildcats that's in a box set at say are you a kingpin fan yes yeah kingpin people versus larry flint all of a sudden he's a major movie actor

i thought half of those movies Were McConaughey I always get them confused I still get them confused That's the thing If there's no McConaughey It's like what What our friend Wesley Morris

Always used to call The market correction Yeah McConaughey took some Woody roles Yeah There's no question But did they Woody should have been

In Dazed and Confused But did they continue To let themselves exist But here's the genius Of Woody Harrelson Is that They think they needed each other Yeah

Woody Harrelson Like just coasts of Woody Harrelson. They think they needed each other. Woody Harrelson just coasts. Woody Harrelson originally read for McConaughey's role in True Detective. And then they were like, well, we're going to get McConaughey. Woody was like, he should play Russ Cole. And I should play the other guy. He always knows exactly the level he needs to be at. Which is why he is always successful. He never out shoots. You know what I mean? He always knows exactly the level he needs to be at which is why he's always successful that's great he never like out shoots you know what i mean like he always knows his range he's like i

don't want to be katniss yeah i just want to be i want to be the old drunk dude but that guy got like so paid and everybody who worked on hunger games was like that dude is like my favorite person i've ever worked with and he wore a terrible wig and is like go get him every for five movies he's like you go out there you you do your thing. Some really good No Country for Old Men, Woody Harrelson. Oh, my God. Like 65 seconds on screen. He's incredible. So here's Snipes.

Snipes goes Major League. This is going to get dark. Moe Better Blues. No, but it gets. New Jack City, Jungle Fever, Water Dance, White Man Can't Jump. He's really good in Water Dance. Water Dance is a good movie, and Pasture 57. So this is, we were talking about this so much.

Wait, did you say Murder at 1600? That was after. This is the future. No, because we were talking about the Black Actor Championship belt, which Eddie had from 82 to 89, basically, even if you count Harlem Nights, which some people like. Trust me, at the time, nobody liked it. I think it's Snipes basically from 89 on

when's Boomerang Boomerang was 92 I think 92, 93 but Snipes grabs the belt and Snipes becomes and then all of a sudden Denzel comes in

and we were talking about it we looked up Denzel's IMDB it's like once Malcolm X happens in 92 it's just like but then in 93 he just goes

Philadelphia Pelican brief yeah and it's just like... But then in 93, he just goes Philadelphia Pelican brief. Yeah. And it's over. And then he's like, Joey Roberts, get off of me. I'm on jet every week. And Snipes, for whatever reason, I mean, obviously he had some personal issues, but by the late 90s, was out.

It was a little bit like what happened when it was Keaton versus Hanks for a while and then Michael Keaton just was out after Batman. Went to prison for tax evasion. That was much later. I think the thing about Snipes is that he had a lane at being

a sexy man in his 20s but didn't have that lane in his 30s the way Denzel. He also chose very specifically to do action movies. I mean, Denzel never went full action. Wesley Snipes, when he did Blade, was like, this is great. I don't know why he chose to do this, but that's an incredibly lucrative choice to make

if you can become an action star for 15 years. That's true. So many people go see those movies. I don't know. Denzel's never done a summer blockbuster, by the way. That's my favorite thing about him. Never done one. But he's made plenty of thrillers. Oh yeah. Bone Collector.

Ramon's the Bone Collector corner. Anytime Bone Collector comes up, he wants in. Ricochet. Ricochet. I like Ricochet. That's my ideal Den Lithgow? Ricochet. I liked Ricochet. That's my ideal Denzel mustache. I think Snipes should have had a better post-94 career. Yes.

I think Wesley Snipes would have been great. You know what would have helped? For two years, just join the cast of ER after Clooney leaves. Make a big market TV move for two years. That didn't work for Mekhi Pfeiffer, really. Take all those Morris Chestnut early roles. Oh, yeah. of ER after Clooney leaves. Make a big market TV move for two years. Take all those Morris Chestnut early roles. Oh yeah. Well that's the thing. He was too old to be in that kind of

Omar Epps, Morris Chestnut. Taye Diggs. He missed the wood. He missed the wood era. That would have prolonged him. He never did the high school reunion movie. He just immediately went weird with sci-fi. He like a pass at it like of doing prestigious stuff in brooklyn's finest which is sort of like the not it's like ethan hawke and don cheadle wesley snipes and richard

gear you're so right though he should have done like he should have just been one of those dudes that was on like csi for 10 years that's what i mean but that's not a recipe for him being like the get the black actor championship belt is not being on. Well, it was over because then Will Smith and Denzel

that was it. He was just talking about for the good of the game he should have been on. I'm just saying to stay in the game. He could have done CSI. He could have done ER

season four to season six. There's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of good. I really like Wesley Snipes. I'm mad that he decided to just disappear from my life as, you know. Can I, I don't even know if i believe what i'm about to say yeah but for a non like if you take out all the roles denzel had of just him portraying other like famous black

people yeah i don't know if he has like as iconic of a character as Nino Brown. You don't believe this. Wow. That's completely untrue. I love Nino Brown as like a character, but come on, man. But like, no, no. I mean, just like. If you take away Malcolm X and Steve Biko.

All right. I'm going on the IMDb. I don't know. I don't know if I believe it, but like Nino Brown is like a culturally. It's the character he wanted from American Gangster and it didn't happen. Yes. I guess I see what you're saying. He's like, I'm going to take Nino Brown

and everyone's like, why don't you play somebody like Nino Brown? He's like, I'm going to do American Gangster. Like, Denzel has like 12 better roles. But Denzel also had that run of being like a great actor in a bad movie. Yes. He still does.

That is my favorite Denzel. Man on fire Denzel. John Q, baby. Keisha Boo Denzel. Yeah. What's the one with Eva Mendez and Sana Latham? Oh, the one that's set in Miami? I love that one.

Oh, yeah. I'm going on a Zion to be now. There were like eight in a row. It was incredible. Is this like you guys' third podcast about Denzel Washington today? Out of time. Out of time. Out of time. Out of time.

We have training day, Denzel, and remember the Titans, Denzel. I disagree. I think he's been on the Nino Brown. Maybe. That's what I'm saying. I don't know. You wouldn't put Man on Fire, that character? No.

Because what's that character's name? Creasy. I don't remember that. You've just seen Man on Fire like 15 times. I love Man on Fire I think I mean I think Crimson Tide

Crimson Tide You're starting a Kidnap hostage podcast It's only two movies But we're just Yeah It's just Proof of life

In Man on Fire But we're gonna do 150 episodes about it The first 63 Are just about David Caruso In Proof of Life. Crimson Tide? Man, Denzel's been in a lot of good movies.

Crimson Tide is incredible. Courage Under Fire is incredible. The Siege is incredible. Denzel is amazing in that movie. No, I'm not saying that Denzel's not incredible. I'm just saying... No, I know what you're saying. Like, Nino Brown is like...

Nino Brown is amazing. Is like... That's like an incredibly like how much is to me here's my New Jack City power rankings Judd Nelson

Judd Nelson was so iconic in New Jack City and I'm sorry I know this is like ridiculous but it's not and it's not fair that a white man wins New Jack City but And I'm sorry, I know this is ridiculous, but it's not fair that a white man wins New Jack City, but Judd Nelson completely wins.

I thought that Judd Nelson had the comeback so far in front of Robert Downey Jr. I'm going out of this place. I'm going back to New York right now. Oh my God. Chris Rock three. Judd Nelson.

Judd one. Bill Cobb. Okay. Five. Chris Rock. Ice T. Ice T. Dan Wesley.

Dan Wesley Snipes. Wesley Snipes is fourth. Oh my God. It's funny. He was in the conversation for a few years. Wesley Snipes. And now it's like he just the conversation for a few years. Was it Snipes? Yeah. Can you imagine if it was like Danny Aiello, one do the right thing?

Well now it's like, Wes Exceps just kind of belongs to the 90s, which is like a weird legacy for him. He's very active on Twitter though. Yeah, I know he's still going now, but his body of work feels very 90s to me. New Jack City feels 90s. For what it's worth, Ice-T has just been steadily acting for 20 plus years. SVU is still in these streets. Yeah. And he's in every episode.

It's amazing. We were talking about Keenan earlier. He's got sticking around for 20 years is like you should get that should get you

in some hall of fame some like something can I ask you a question do you think that Ron Shelton should have just kept making movies

like this I think it's hard I think it's I love the origin story of this I don't know where you go next. He tried to do a play to the bone and it didn't work.

Yeah, and he tried Cobb. Cobb didn't work. But Tin Cub. Tin Cub to me worked. Yeah. So basically he's got three that are perfect. What else can't white men do? Govern.

White men can't lead. I feel like you should have just kept with that thing. Black men can't skate. I don't know. I feel like you had a good formula. So it made $75 million, which is a lot at the time. And now they're talking about remaking it. And I watch this under the lens of, should this movie be remade?

Blake Griffin is involved. Kenya Barris is involved. That's just Michael B. Jordan's role, right? I mean. That's right. That's just his role. He's like built like him. I hate all remakes.

And instinctively, I don't want them to happen. Then I watch this movie. It feels very 90s to me. The pop culture references are like Brady Bunch, Opie, Gomer Pyle, Godfather, Jeopardy, all stuff that belongs to another era. Dick Gregory, yeah. All stuff that belongs to another era. And then the movie itself, like I could have used about 25% more basketball. Maybe there is a way to remake this and make it more modern.

So you know what they probably have? I'm back in on the remake. You know what they have to do to kind of like keep – here's the thing. This movie comes out at not a time of innocence by any stretch of the imagination, but prior to the LA riots, right? So like there's like a different – I think there's a different mainstream pop cultural conversation about race relations like right before this movie comes out to like after this movie comes out. So they have to find something that is like the Woody going into Englewood version of this movie. And I don't know what that is. TFA.

Or it's like a black guy going into like rural America and playing basketball in like, you know, Illinois or Indiana. Do you know what I mean? You have to like switch the settings up. What if it's Billy Hoyle Jr.? That's what they'll probably do. Yeah, see that's going to suck. And it's Miles Teller.

Oh! Oh, right. Sorry, I'm back in. So, if you told me right now, Canyon Barris writing the remake and modernizing it and MBJ is the Wesley Snipes type of character, I think I'm in. And I'm anti-remake.

Completely in. I would 100 100 see it and you know that they have to get wesley and woody in there somewhere like they're playing in a seniors tournament or something like that or they teach these guys that they're not going to make it like a straight reboot they'll they'll have like characters from the old movie we all agree that even though it's 25 years and even though this movie still holds up and it's super watchable it is dated and there is a way to modernize it and make it make a new version of it that's fun like i i didn't like the idea for creed i just don't even know like how do you hustle i know how you hustle

people online like you con them and and and do docs them and fish their emails and stuff like that how would you even con somebody in real life now they're going to be like hold up let me google you oh wait look there's this video of you dunking on someone i know that you're good at basketball you know what i mean like i just don't even know how like everybody is on tape it's like you paid for your followers yeah i don't know can i throw this at you yeah ryan coogler directing i mean mbj as the lead that i mean that's that's the movie that just i that It gets It's a tiny bit darker But And better filmed

And less like Comedy Kind of With the soundtrack Doing guitars Doing banjos It's cool Kind of does his thing to it

And I think that's a really interesting movie Yeah I don't think it'll happen And it's set in Wakanda Black Panther's actually about White man Kendra a really interesting movie. Yeah. I don't think it'll happen. And it's set in Wakanda. Black Panther's actually about white man cancer. It's the sequel.

I watched Creed again. Yeah. It's good. And we need to do a podcast about it soon. Okay. I'm ready. I've seen it five times, though. It's good.

Yeah. It's really good. And I'm ready to revisit, though, whether Moneyball was the best sports movie. So Creed's in the combo he's great and it coogler's the the some of the scenes are just fantastic the the three minute long same shot boxing scene yeah it's just incredible and jordan's already good jordan's already swole he's They got to get all these rolls out of him while he's still swole. I think Teller might still be swole from Bleed for this. Oh, man. I think we fixed Teller.

Could Teller play hoops? I don't know. Could he be Billy Hoyle Jr.? Willie Hoyle Jr.? Elgort. Elgort can dunk. Elgort can dunk. Yeah, Elgort can play.

I saw him miss eight dunks once, but I saw him make the ninth. Yeah, because I made fun of him on Grantland, and he tweeted at me, like, come to Brooklyn and I'll dunk on you. And he put a video of himself dunking there. Well, here's the other reason why this movie would work, out of many reasons. You know they load it with NBA cameos, right? Yeah. You'd have Westbrook's people be like,

Russ, I think this would help with your brand, like if you're in this movie, and one of the pickup guys. And it would be, I would say, 80% NBA guys would be the guys that they pick up. What if the first scene is at the celebrity game? Oh, now we're ready to do the movie for Katie Barris. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, that's great. Never mind.

Katie, give us a consulting thing. Do you think that Matthias from the Clippers will be in it? Of the equipment manager? Come on. I'm going to imitate Robert. That's rude. That's rude. That's rude.

Blake's still mad at me that I made an equipment manager tweet joke. That's fine. He's still holding against me. All right. So, Webman Can't Jump. Sports movie, not a rom-com. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. The last 40 minutes are a rom-com. I know. I just hate to break it down. It's not that comic. There's enough basketball in there. It's like Rom-sad. It's like a rom-sad. It's a human.

It's like Kramer versus Kramer at the end of the day. It is. It's like ordinary people. You're just like, what is happening? Everybody's lives are falling apart. Come back. Sure. I think we hit everything, right?

Yeah. All right, good. White Man Can't Chat, Rembrandt Brown. Thank you. Thank you. We'll see you. You want to plug any of your movies or anything? I don't have any new movies coming out. Okay. All right. You want to plug any of your movies or anything? I don't have any new

movies coming out. Rem is starring in Logan. Rem's new Netflix special premieres February 15th. You can find me and Miles Teller in the remake of White Man Can't See. Chris Ryan, you can listen to him on The Watch and on

the Sports Movie Hub fan podcast and you can hear my podcast, the Bill Simmons podcast. Subscribe to all that stuff. We'll be back on Channel 33. What's the next one? Gosh, I don't know. Should we have people submit them? Yeah.

I'm almost ready for a He Got Game conversation. I'm also very prepared for Creed, whatever you want. Okay. The He Got Game, I'm ready to go. Just an hour on why Mila Djokovic is in the whole hooker subplot, why that had to happen. And their choice of soundtracks, but that's for another time. Thanks for listening to the Sports Movie Hall of Fame podcast. Thanks to Jim Cunningham for producing it.

Jim! All right, that's it for the Sports Movie Hall of Fame, episode four. Wait a minute, can't you jump? Don't forget, you can get the first three episodes on the Channel 33 feed. That's where these are usually. In the meantime, thanks to Indochino. Get any premium Indochino suit for just $389 at Indochino.com, as long as you enter BS at checkout.

Thanks to Lyft. Download the free Lyft app today. Enter promo code BillSimmons in the payments section for three free rides up to $10 each. Don't forget about The Ringer. NFL show lots of good content there this week. And hopefully I will be back on Friday with a new podcast. The mailbag is listed as doubtful for Friday. Only because I'm on a ton of medication. And it might be the weirdest, craziest mailbag I've ever written.

And not in a good way. I'm heavily medicated right now, just for the record. But hopefully, there'll be a podcast. I'll just cough all over Brian Curtis. I think Brian Curtis is going to come on. But we'll see. Stay tuned.

Wish me well. If you want a mail bag, send me good health vibes. And we'll be back later in the week. Thanks.