The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 183: Luke Walton

Episode Date: March 3, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons sits down with Los Angeles Lakers head coach Luke Walton to discuss growing up in the Boston Garden (2:00), his father's reaction to Luke's getting a head coaching job with the Lakers (10:00), his rookie season with teammates Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone, and Gary Payton (12:30), the chemistry of last year's Golden State Warriors (16:30), working with Magic Johnson (40:00), what he learned from Phil Jackson (52:00), and his 20-year, friendly rivalry with Richard Jefferson (59:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's the podcast before this one. Luke Walton. I can't get over the fact that you're a coach. I'm sure you get that. How old are you now? 36. So my dad has season tickets for the Celtic games. Yes.

In the 80s. Yes. 70s and 80s, but in the 80s, we the Celtic games. Yes. In the eighties. Yes. The seventies and eighties. But in the eighties we sit in the tunnel. Yes. So we were on the left side. And when your dad joined the team, which was the greatest basketball season in my life,

all of a sudden your mom was like literally directly across from us on the, on the other part of the tunnel, five feet away. And she would bring the Walton boys in and you guys were terrorists. You guys were just jumping up. You're doing like, you were all crammed on like two seats or three seats. And I don't know how it, so you would have been, I was six. You were six. So we're all two years apart. So we're, there was four, six, eight, and 10. Right. The ages of the four boys. Right. And she spent most of the time trying to corral you in the seats.

Bless her heart. And meanwhile, basketball history is happening right in front of you. But you say, I read that article in The Globe. You said there was some osmosis from that season for you with the passing. Yeah, I said I think there had to be because it's what I love most about the game of basketball. I love watching the ball move. Somebody beating the defense with a backdoor pass

or if a defense isn't looking, just throwing it over the top. That type of nonstop ball movement and that skill is my favorite part of the game. So it had to start from somewhere, and I'm assuming that's where it was, was watching tapes and Larry Bird legend movies as a kid So, you know, it had to start from somewhere, and I'm assuming that's where it was, was, you know, watching tapes and, you know, Larry Bird legend movies as a kid and just seeing it nonstop I think is a big part of, you know, the way I see and try to coach the game now. You think there's any DNA from that?

Like your dad had the passing gene, so it had to be in your – Your chromosomes a little bit? I mean, I don't think so, but I guess there's a possibility. Has to be a little bit, right? My younger brother was a complete gunner, though. Oh, really? Yeah. He played at San Diego State, and he just wanted to hoist up shots.

He's rebelling against the passing gene? He might have been. He might have been, because me and my older brother loved passing. He got out there in his mind that every time he touches the ball, he should shoot it. Well, I remember that season. I'm barely old enough to remember watching your dad in Portland when he was, like, the best center in the league.

And they came in one time, and they just killed the Celtics. It was, like, 150 to 110 or something. And the ball was just – I just never seen anything like it. It was, like, this indelible imprint on me. And he gets hurt. You read the story of broken foot. He's never going to like it. It was like this indelible imprint on me. And he gets hurt. You read the story of Broken Foot. He's never going to come back. He's in the Clippers.

And then when he arrived with the Celtics, it was like he'd found his soulmate, Larry Bird. And they would just experiment that whole year with those little back doors, little cuts off the screens and all that stuff. It was magnificent. Yeah. So he said, and again, it's's my dad so who knows what part of the stories are true or not but the story we heard he was going to law school up at stanford yeah and he didn't think he could ever play again because of his feet and he started playing intramural basketball uh with some with some friends he was in school with and his foot felt great yeah he was

able to score you know whatever 100 points in intramural games against poor law students at stanford university and he said his foot felt so good that he wanted to come back and play and it was like a miracle he stayed healthy the whole year and then that was it yeah but he played like 100 games. One last gift from the basketball gods, because, boy, did he love the game of basketball. I know. Did he love Larry Bird. So he was like, for him, I think, you know, I think for a lot of athletes retiring,

and especially when it happens early and with injuries, is really depressing. Yeah. And he had his struggles with that himself. But what a last gift to be for someone that plays the game like he played and the way he appreciates the game uh to be able to spend his last year playing alongside that 86 celtic team winning a championship six man of the year all that stuff was uh pretty pretty incredible i went to see him because I wrote a basketball book like seven, eight years ago,

and he was basically the last chapter of the book because he was, out of all the best guys ever, he was the one guy who his body just betrayed him. He never got to really use the gift to the level that he could have. And I remember I drove to San Diego. It was like summer of 2009. This was before he had the back surgery and he kind of you know basically saved his life I mean he's talked about it but I remember he was sitting on

sitting on a you know a couch and his feet were up and you see his feet and you're like oh man how did those things go through any NBA season like they're just these long he had no arches he's got all these cuts and scars and all this stuff on him.

And it's like, man. His knees are like three times the size of what knees should look like. He's been through the ringer. Well, now he's reinvented himself. I mean, I'm sure you're aware of his Pac-12 announcing and all the ESPN stuff. He's been hilarious. He's taken it to another level. I saw a Texas game the other day where someone threw him a tie-dye Texas shirt

and he literally changed in the middle of the arena, just shirt off. But he loves it. He really does. He's always been a hard worker. He studies his game notes and he's ready to go. Now, half the time he's talking about crazy Grateful Dead flashbacks. But I love listening to him do games. It really does entertain me because I've heard those stories and that type of storytelling since I was a kid.

And we were sitting around the dinner table. And to see how much fun he's having doing all that is pretty awesome. Because, like you said, he found his life again. I mean, he was out. He was done. He had given up pretty much. And to see the joy that he has, again, in life and in being able to work and travel and do all that stuff from a son standpoint is obviously like way cooler than just listening to what he's talking about i could sense that a

little bit when we talked i i sensed that he was in not a great place physically and that it would definitely affected him i mean i didn't know like how badly it was affecting him but i could definitely tell he was he was a guy who was outdoors riding his bike to practices and games when he's in portland and you could see that you know he just missed being able to move around it was killing him yeah and you know he was you know he wasn't one to really talk about all that type of stuff a lot so for us as kids it was like we saw it but we were also all doing our own thing and you know kind of around age that, you know, we weren't seeing him as much as we are used to. So then when, you know, when the word came out how bad it really was, like it blew us away. Yeah.

You know, we don't sit down and have those type of talks. And I think he likes to handle things on things on his own especially things like that his health and stuff like that he wants to you know do it all himself uh so it was you know reading some of that stuff was really uh was tough yeah i ran into him a couple times after i wrote the book and he would always and i remember he emailed me a couple times too he'd been on my podcast but he would always say he would get great feedback for this chapter i wrote and i was like you read it yet he's like i can't he just couldn't read it like i think it's still painful for him to read about yeah his career because i think he must feel like there's so he missed out like think about lebron's played i know 15 straight seasons

he's been healthy i know and bill walton plays like maybe one-fifth of that or something. But, yeah, I think the thing that's coming out now on the TV is he's got to be in like the top five or six people who love basketball the most. I did a year with Doug Collins, so I don't know if you know. Oh, yeah. But Doug Collins is like, he just loves basketball. I love Doug. Doug's awesome. We'd be in a room with eight TVs and he's just fidgeting his thing like, look at that.

What did you do? And he's just, that's what he's like. That's his favorite thing. And I think your dad's like that, too. What did he say when you were talking about maybe going to the Lakers? When I was going to take the coaching job. When you were talking about the coaching job, yeah. He thought that I should stay in Golden State.

Really? But I think where he's at in his life, he looks back and looks at that Portland team and looks at the 86 Celtic team. To the icons. Nothing else. Those are the memories that I think stick with him the most, being part of those championship teams and how great that was to be a part of it. So I think his advice to me was more about, you know, quality of life and being happy.

Because let me tell you, living in Oakland and coaching that team, working with Steve, working with the staff up there, and Bob Myers and them was, every day was pretty much a good day. Because we won. We had fun at practice. So I get where he was coming from but where i'm at in my life and being young uh like the challenge and the idea of having the opportunity to to help get the la lakers back to where they belong uh was you know the the excitement where you can't sleep at night. The fact that you get to be a part of that and trying to make that happen.

Yeah, it's going to be hard as hell, but that's the team that drafted me. That's the team I played with. And on top of that, they're one of the greatest sports franchises of all time. It's the second greatest NBA franchise ever. Yeah, we don't need to get into that debate. If you had me on when I was six, I would have agreed with you. You would have been high-fiving. It was probably all the way up until I was 22 when I got drafted.

Because as soon as I heard the L.A. Lakers and Luke Walton coming out, it changed right there. So up until I was 22, I probably would have agreed with you. Well, you've had some crazy different types of basketball situations. Like you're the interim coach on this team that comes together in a way that we've never seen in our lives last year in the Warriors. I mean, first 25, but then your rookie season, you go in, and that's like a really, really bonkers Lakers season.

They bring in Carl Malone and Gary Payton. It's really the first super team. Everyone thinks like LeBron and Wade and Bosh formed it, but that year, everyone was like, oh, the Lakers are going to win. This is going to be so boring. Who else is going to win? And then I think if Carl Malone doesn't get hurt, I know the Pistons were good, but I still think you probably won the title.

The Pistons were really good. They were a really good team as far as the way they played. They had their roles, and they played those roles to a T. But, yeah, the injury to Carl Malone killed us. He was kind of that guy that kept everything smooth on a team full of Hall of Famers. And you weren't that deep either. You couldn't lose a

guy who played 35 minutes a game on that team. We were. Phil just didn't trust me. You were playing though, right? It was like Slava. It was me and Slava begging to get thrown in the game. We weren't as deep. We had our guys that had a lot of success.

Rick Fox was hurt all year. Horace Grant came and helped, but he got hurt before the playoffs. GP wasn't happy. He's standing on the side. So it wasn't as deep as that is normally nice to make a playoff run. And then when Carl got hurt, it just crushed kind of the spirit of what we had going. You got by the Spurs, and that was a pretty, you know, their defending chance. But then that Pistons team just, I could see it after, like, the second game.

I can't remember which game Kobe hit the crazy game winner. Game two. Yeah, it just felt like. And that was to go into overtime yeah like they they had already won game one on our convincingly we had to fight to scrap to get back in to get you know have a chance to win game two and then it was just it was over when we got to Detroit what did rookie Luke Walton think of all the Shaq Kobe stuff that year? You just thrown into this. Yeah, I was, I didn't really know what to think.

Coming from college, everything is such a tight group. And it's like you're really with the same kids for the most part your whole time. You guys were tight too, that Arizona team. Oh, yeah. Everyone on that team I'm still good friends with. And that was how we did things coming out of college. So a lot of what happened that rookie year, I just was sitting back and observing, trying to take it all in,

which is crazy. A lot of people assume growing up as Bill's son, I would have already known how to handle the NBA. I had no clue. I remember my first bus trip, road trip. You get off the bus and they tell you all right we'll see you tomorrow at 10 a.m and i'm thinking to myself well where is when's the team film session tonight when's the team dinner is it in the lobby like all this stuff and

you know that's come to find out like no you're you're a grown-up now like you got to this city do whatever the hell you want all night long and we got got 10 a.m. the next day. So a lot of that rookie year was just kind of sitting back and observing and trying to figure out, you know, how this league works. And the Kobe-Shaq thing was crazy because I got, you know, it felt like there was a Team Kobe a little bit and then some guys that were Team Shaq. And I got along great with both of them. So I was just kind of –

Well, you passed, so they liked you. Yeah, I was neutral and I passed. I love passing anyways, but when Shaq used to tell me if I don't throw him the ball, because in triangle you can – wherever the next pass leads to the motion. So anytime I didn't throw it to him, he would tell me he was going to punch me in the face next time that happened. I started making my two pass into the post pretty much every time. But it was definitely an interesting experience. And then the opposite last year, that team had unbelievable chemistry. Yeah. The best I've ever been on.

I've never seen a team enjoy themselves more. It was the best chemistry of any team I've been a part of, including our championship teams here that I was playing with. They have so much fun the way that they played and shared the ball and didn't care which player was getting the shots and embracing their roles and sacrificing for the, I mean, you know. You must have loved it. It was awesome.

It really was. I mean, Andre coming off the bench for the first time in his career. Yeah. You know, David Lee, same thing. The first year we were there, bringing over Sean Livingston, who I played with in Cleveland my last year, and seeing like his career that was almost over and such a good guy and hard worker to be able to have that type of success with a team that's winning.

It's a little like your dad. It was over, and then he rallied back on the 86 outs. Absolutely, and a huge role. The year we won the championship, he had some huge minutes in the finals for us. So it was the chemistry of that team, and the Warriors did a great job with the way that they set things up for the players. You know, any time we had nights off on the road, there was team dinner,

like at whatever restaurant set up for just to constantly reinforce the idea of, like, look, we're all in this together. You know, it wasn't mandatory, but most nights guys enjoyed each other. They'd come to dinner and they'd have, you know, whatever, a couple of drinks and order a nice meal. And it was people laughing and having fun. And it was just a really cool experience for those two years up there. I mean, you were just the assistant coach.

All of a sudden you're the head coach. Were you just in shock? Shock, absolutely. What's your mindset with that? You must have thought you were like five years away. Yeah, I was in shock for sure. But I told myself I had to make the decision that I can't afford to be in shock, at least let it be known that I'm kind of petrified about what's about to happen

because that was my job. I had to be there as the head coach, and so you have to show confidence. I thought that's one thing you did really well. You always looked like you were in charge i think that that's the one part that can go badly if somebody's thrust into that spot yeah you look like you'd been there a while and i don't know did you practice were you in front of a full-length mirror practicing no i mean i i definitely did not practice but i think a huge part of it. One, Bob Myers and Steve were so incredible. Yeah.

I mean, Bob had convinced me pretty much, even if we started the season three and five, because we had a really hard stretch to open that season up. He's like, that's fine. Like, we got 82 games. You know how good our team is. Like, eventually, with whatever happens, like, we're going to figure it out. So don't even like so Bob was great Steve obviously talking to him every day on the phone was great and then a big

part of it was the players I mean the fact that I had such good relationships with them uh you know I played with Andre in college played with Sean played with uh played with Mo Spights, you know, created a phenomenal relationship with Draymond Green, you know, obviously. Like, I had these relationships, and I think, one, because that group of players are winners. They're going to do what it takes to win. Yeah. And two, because I think they honestly wanted to help me, you know, succeed at this and make sure that there wasn't, you know, any craziness going to happen.

Like a lot of them really stepped up and they helped, you know, they helped at least carry carry it along as we got me and the rest of the coaching staff, because it wasn't just me. That was a new coach up there. You know, we had alvin left so we had jaron collins who got into it you know the year before like i did uh you know bruce frazier kristen marco we had a really young coaching staff besides ron adams yeah and you know that's its own story but could you feel the team getting more famous as the season went along it was because steph went to a whole other – I know he won the MVP, but he went to another level that season. It was a circus everywhere we went.

There was hundreds of people outside the hotel all day waiting for the bus to come, the bus to go, pregame, postgame, everywhere. Hundreds of people. And then also, like, the off-court opportunities, the people showing up for the games, two and a half hours whenever they can get in to watch warm-ups. The doors opened an hour and a half before. I remember when I was the interim head coach, Bob Myers came to me and said, Hey, there's a petition going on from the fans,

and there's enough signatures now that I figured I would at least bring it to you. And they want to get in earlier. So the doors, if the game starts at 7.30, the door is normally open at 6. And this many people want to come in two hours before the game so they can watch you guys

warm up. And I said, well, I don't think that should be up to me. Obviously, Steph's the guy they want to see. Let's go ask Steph. And, you know, Steph's like, well, you know, it's already kind of crazy out there, so let's just kind of keep it where it is. Easy enough decision.

Nope. Steph wants to keep the doors shut until 6. We keep them shut until 6. So, like, fans were literally petitioning to come in the arena two hours before the game even started to watch our players warming up. Well, it is transfixing to watch him warm up. I got to say, I got to see it at one of the arenas. I can't remember which one. But then even I went to a shoot-around because we did a pod with Steve Kerr a few weeks ago.

And just watching his routine after the practice he's playing like this kickball game and doing all these little goofy drills and it's i mean it's probably the greatest shooter of all time it's hard not to be mesmerized by it yeah no i agree and i heard that podcast with steve i thought it was really really good thank you even though your dad said me and my brothers were all gonna end up in prison he did he can't believe that you can't believe that you all became successes. Yeah. Those Walton boys. I know. My mom was actually listening to it.

It was over All-Star break and me and my mom were driving somewhere so I had it on. So she got a huge laugh out of it. It was good. You don't remember Robert Parrish's wife, do you? No. Because that was the other star of that section. She tried to vault out of the thing to jump at a referee once

and had to be held back, which I've never seen before. She took the calls very personally. In retrospect, if you guys don't go for 73 and you pace it a little better, does that team win the title or was it just destined not to be? By the way, as I said to Steve, I thought you did the right thing. You always go for the history. Yeah, and we kind of, you know, the message going as we got closer and closer was like, look, all right, we'll keep playing.

We won't sit guys, but we're not going to go for it at the cost of, you know, if Steph has a sprained ankle, we're not going to play him through that to try to get to 73. So we're going to be reasonable about the way we go after it. Yeah. But, you know, we had our chances to win, right? I mean, and there's always something to have. Steph got hurt.

You know, I think we were a little worn down. And then you just give credit to Cleveland. I mean, they could have quit. And LeBron and Kyrie, they didn't really seem like they were going to be able to take it. But that game five when they both went for 40 apiece. Yeah. That was like when we got back to the locker room knowing we're going back to Cleveland. You know, I still obviously thought we would win the series,

but I think we knew then we had our hands full. And obviously no bogeyed in there, hurt, but they got momentum. And when superstars get momentum and confidence, it's tough to shut down, and they did a hell of a job. They did a nice job changing what the series was and just making it kind of not what basketball is being played right now. The final score of Game 7 was, what was it, like 93-89, something like that. It was just so slow and deliberate.

Yeah, and we had our chance. That was the thing. You missed how many shots in the last six minutes. And the shots that made the Warriors who the Warriors are. Like the five pass, you know, kick out, extra pass to a wide open shooter type of shots. The ones that, you know, got us to that point and won us the championship. So, you know, the chances were there. Were you surprised they messed with, I know that Durant's one of the championship. So, you know, the chances were there. Were you surprised they messed with,

I know that Durant's one of the best five players in the world, but was a part of you surprised they messed with the chemistry? That wasn't. Messed is the wrong word. I guess potentially changed the chemistry. I think if we would have won, then it would have been really interesting to see how they do that because then I would have been shocked.

You don't win back-to-back titles and then trade two of your, or let two of the biggest pieces go from that. Yeah, yeah. But coming off a loss, you know, you get a chance to add, you know, Kevin Durant. And I know that Steve and them didn't want, they did not want to, but they were a little hesitant because they loved the team up there but it comes down to like in my opinion if you can get Kevin Durant it's like you hear all the time these people talk about players are untouchable

like if you can get Kevin Durant you know you kind of have to do it he's that good of a basketball player that no matter how and he fits into what they do. Oh, he's perfect for the way they play. It's not like Carmelo's a different conversation

because he's played a certain style, whatever. KD's unbelievable off the ball, on the ball. The cutting, his length, the way he plays is a perfect fit for the way that the Warriors have been playing and Steve, the system that he put in place there.

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Again, quickenloans.com slash Bill Simmons. Back to Luke Walton. Who was your biggest nightmare to guard at that position when you played? You played for a while, so you crossed a couple generations. Because Durant would have to be up there, right? Yeah. LeBron would be the easiest, most obvious choice. Well, LeBron actually wasn't the hardest

because the scouting report back then was to go under the screen and let him shoot. So if he hits it, then I still did my job. And when we played him, we used to just load up Andrew Bynum or Pau Gasol on that strong side block. So if it was an iso, my only job was to get into him and have him drive to my teammates. So I never really got stuck on LeBron with no help. But Carmelo was a monster. He was really tough, and they would feed him time and time again um physical quick release yeah post up or face up uh-huh um tracy mcgrady

was tough kind of getting switched on him but honestly the hardest one to guard was in practice number uh 24 toby i mean that was there was nothing like trying to guard him uh on that wing when you're when you were iso'd and well especially once he once he developed that little post-up game he had too then it's like what do you do you were literally helpless yeah and he was such an asshole he'd tell you about it too you know like he wasn't just going 30 like he would he treated practices like games. It was no different for him. If you're competing on the court, he was trying to kill you, and he was telling you about it.

And as a man, it's tough to hear someone tell you about how they're going to kill you and then kill you. It's interesting. There's been a few stars over the years that have handled it that way, practice games, the whole situation. Yeah. And I always wonder, like, you know, some guys fall, some teammates fall through the wayside. The Celtics had that in the 80s.

There were some guys that just couldn't, like Brad Lohaus, they had to trade him. He couldn't handle it. Yeah. Did you see that happen with Kobe and a couple teammates? Like, could some people just not rise to the occasion? No, I think it was good for us. Yeah? I think it was good for us because he, the fact he did it like that on days that we,

you know, was just tired in the NBA season and we would mentally give in, he would call you on it and he would, you know, he would talk trash to you and he would get the competitive level up to a place where all of a sudden you're going as hard as you can because that's what you do as a competitor. So I think the way he approached practice was really good for us as a team. So now that you're a coach, you probably appreciate it more than you did as a teammate. Oh, I love it.

I love it now. I try to manipulate the practices to get them to be that competitive. I've called even Phil a few times and been like, come on, coach. Like, give me something here. Didn't he used to lie about the score to get MJ going? I've heard that. That was always the famous thing. It would be like 12-8.

He'd be like, it's 12-6. Then MJ would be like, no, it's 12-8. No, it's 12-6. Then MJ would get mad. Yeah, so, I mean, obviously I don't know that. But I know he would purposely, would purposely not give Kobe foul calls, and Kobe would go nuts. He would lose it, cussing people out.

But that's what Phil wanted to do. He wanted to bring that out of him. And also, for those games that he gets fouled, but the ref just blows a call to give experience for him to fight through that and play um but yeah he's uh now that i am a coach that you know that type of competitive atmosphere is what i try to get our practices to look like i always thought that's why shack and kobe ultimately were doomed to not make it forever as teammates because shack was the opposite of that he was so physically overpowering

and so talented naturally and could just basically turn it on in April and put up 35 15 in the finals and just do that year after year and I'm sure he just didn't want to play at that intensity day after day whereas Kobe that's who he was I mean I didn't think about it like that but it's true I mean I only played one year with Shaq, and he was an awesome teammate. He had your back as a teammate, and he saw the value and the importance of making sure everybody was having fun out there. If we had crowds come into a practice for an open practice, he would include them.

He'd run up into the crowd and kind of bring that joy out in everybody, which is important in a long NBA season. The difference with him and I think a lot of people, though, that try to be fun and things of that nature is when it, when it came time to play, Shaq was a killer. Yeah. He was a monster. So he could smile and have fun all over the place.

But when it came time to actually play, he would, I mean, he took, he took joy in, you know, hitting people into the crowd and, you know, he'd act like he's going to block a shot, but really just lunges his huge body into some little guard. And then the guard would never come into the paint again after that. Yeah. Shaq's now become underrated. I was, I had some,

I can't remember where I either read this or saw it or saw it on a message board thread or something, but people were debating like, you know, everybody thinks basketball now is the best version of basketball. And there's some really good things about it. You're like, Oh, what would you do with Shaq now?

It's like, you know what Shaq would do? He would destroy everybody. If it was the way it's played now with four smaller guys and one big guy, I don't even know what would happen. There would be carnage. There would be dead bodies in the court. You wouldn't be able to play small ball against Shaq. No.

You couldn't. There's no way. You could not do it because he was too physically dominant. Absolutely. Small ball works because these guys can guard the bigs and then it gives the advantage on defense. I mean, anyone that thinks that should go back and watch that 76ers finals when Mutombo was trying to guard him.

He was unstoppable by big, legitimate centers. I remember in that Pistons finals, he had one awesome game. I think it was game four. Put up like a 36-20, and you guys lost. I remember Phil said something after, like, man, we just wasted one of the great Shaq efforts. Because he did that against Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace, you know, which is about as good as it's going to get with that.

Yeah, I feel like, you know, even like I watch a lot of Celtic games. Obviously, that's my team. They go small a lot. They have three guards. Did you see the one last night? It was a huge win last night. Yeah, I mean, whatever. I mean, Darren Williams, there were some guys out there that aren't going to be there in the playoffs but it was a big win that was a great game yeah it was

a great basketball game that was players making plays on both sides it was really entertaining guy all kinds of guys making shots yeah taking charges that was beautiful there's a couple times when they're you know like greg monroe who's hit or miss for the for the bucks kills the celtics because in small ball and he's physical and he's the Bucs, kills the Celtics. Because in small ball, and he's physical, and he's a lefty, and he gets the ball on his spot, and he just wreaks havoc. So I can't even imagine what would happen with Shaq. What's been the most frustrating thing about, I mean, other than the fact that you guys aren't succeeding,

that you're losing most of the time compared to last year. You're winning all the time. What's been the most frustrating thing for you this season? Well, first, like I don't – and I know success is different for everyone. I think we are succeeding, honestly, with where we're trying to get to. Well, how young you guys are, yeah. Yeah, and again, I tell our guys, like, the winning and losing, like, it sucks to lose.

Nobody wants to lose. But the important thing for us is is how we're building habits right now like the direction we're trying to go to and so what are those habits like what the way we practice yeah honestly the way that we play as far as are we playing on selfish are we making the extra pass defensively are we talking are we into like are we challenging you know teams defensively and a lot of the time throughout the season that goes up and down. Obviously being around the NBA for a while, you know being consistent in the NBA is not easy

because of how many games you play. It's just not. Especially when you've got young guys. You have young guys and not just one or two young guys. We're playing a lot of young guys. But I think that the way that it's going right now, we're actually having success in those terms, which is most important to me right now.

Because even if we made the playoffs and went on a 15-game win streak, got the eighth seed. Yeah, you're still in trouble. We're playing the Warriors in the first round. So to me, more importantly right now is we're building winning habits in the way that we practice, in the way that our young guys are in the gym every morning before practice, getting specific work in with specific coaches on what we think is most important for them, weakness of theirs to get better at.

And they're doing it every day. And then from there into the weight room. And, you know, so building those type of habits at this young of an age, I think carries over, you know, when you do it day after day after day and then year after year. Now all of a sudden these players that were young with this raw talent start to blossom into phenomenal NBA basketball players. And they have the pedigree.

I mean, you have two number two picks and a number seven pick and a couple more first-rounders. It's not like this is a CBA team. What is Brandon Ingram? What has he become? What is he eight years from now? I think he's one of the most interesting guys i don't know what he is there's no way to know yet because the only way to know

the only way to answer that is to know what kind of shooter he becomes because his floor is going to be really good like even if he never turns into a great shooter he's going to be a really good nba player because he gives a shit because he cares he's long he has a great shooter, he's going to be a really good NBA player. Because he gives a shit. Because he cares. He's long. He has a great feel. You know, he's starting already. You know, he weighs 180 pounds, and he's already starting to finish with dunks in the lane as he beats people. So his floor is already going to be high.

So his destiny is if he starts consistently making threes to stretch to four. So if he can do it, he's going to put on weight. He's going to get strong enough. He's going to be able to finish in the lane. He's going to be able to hit his free throws. All those things I'm 100% confident about. Depending on how high his ceiling gets is going to be all, in my opinion, determined by how well of a shooter he becomes.

And he's in here working. He works on it. So I would like to believe that he'll become a pretty consistent shooter. But even within being a consistent shooter, there's that range of, is he going to be knocking down threes like Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant are now, where if they're open, that thing's going in. And if he does that. Well, Kawhi learned how to do that, Durant you know, like if they're open, that thing's going in. Yeah. And if he does that.

Well, Kawhi learned how to do that. Durant. Durant was probably doing it when he was eight. Durant came into the league. That was the rap on Kawhi. He couldn't shoot. Can't shoot. And now he's 40-plus percent in any time that he's open, he knocks that thing down.

Who's he guarding on the other end ultimately? Let's say he puts on 40 pounds. He's stretched four? No, no, no. He's a three. He's too good. You think he's's a three yeah i mean he can he'll definitely be able to we would like to play him as a stretch for in that scenario yeah because we want to play that style right but he's he's a three he's a he's a point forward i mean we ran him at point guard for a lot of this year already so a little yannis potential maybe yeah yeah i mean seriously but it's all up and down

because it's gonna, you know, you gotta be able to, right now, every ball screen teams just go under on him and they close out short. And when they, if they get to the point that they have to fight over that screen and they have to run them off his three with his feel for the game and his skill level and physical attributes,

he's going to be a monster to deal with. But again, it comes down to can he knock the shot down. When it came out that he couldn't be in the, or that they nixed him being in the boogie trade or weren't interested, my reaction was, that's crazy. They should have gotten boogie. And I hadn't watched them in a while. And I watched one of your games recently.

And I was like, yeah, there's a ceiling with him that I think is – there's also nobody in the league like him. I think it's really hard to figure out what somebody's going to be when you don't even have the role model for it. Yeah. To me, like, in that, obviously, I'm a huge Boogie fan. I know people say he's crazy, whatever, whatever. I would love to – like, he's – like, one, I like crazy.

Yeah, you coach Draymond. I grew up in a chaotic household with my dad and my crazy brothers. But I like crazy. And, yeah, Draymond Green, he's one of my favorite players. Yeah. And when I was interim head coach, he probably cussed me out three times, and I enjoyed it. It was, you know, that's fun to me.

Like, I want that type of energy out there. Plus you played with Kobe, as we discussed before. I played with Kobe, yeah. Probably yelled that once or twice by him. Yeah, someone asked me the other day, how is it like working with Magic? Has he gotten, you know, is he this? And I said, it's great.

Magic's incredible. Magic's amazing. I spent a whole year with Magic. And he's nice. I said, shit, I've played with Kobe Kobe used to cuss me out every day so like I can

I can you know that's no that's no big deal and Magic like yeah Magic's he's got a way

about him that's just it's fun to it's fun to be around he's also he's Magic Johnson that always helps he's one of the five

most famous greatest players of all time he's always on time yeah if you have a meeting or anywhere in the room he's there he's one of the five most famous greatest players of all time he's always on time yeah if you have a meeting or anywhere in the room he's there

he's there first he's just sitting in the chair waiting yeah it was interesting hearing people wonder are they Magic Johnson's gonna win

it's like first of all he's gonna have somebody else and then it turns out to be Rob Poenka yeah it's not like Magic's gonna be in

Istanbul scouting you-round picks, but where you want them is having them in practice every day. And some 20-year-old kid who grew up watching them on YouTube, and then all of a sudden there's Magic telling them, hey, did you ever think about on your little skyhook doing your feet like this? And a perfect example of that was in Oklahoma City. He came with us on the trip, and he's been great as far as, like, Luke,

your coaching team will never tell you what to do. Obviously when we talk, if I see something, I'll run it off you, and we can talk about it, whatever, whatever. And if the players want to talk to me, I'll be here for them. So he's been great as far as that has been concerned. So we're in Oklahoma City, and he comes up after practice, and we're just shooting the shit about how it went and what this young guy did and that young guy.

And he starts talking about Brandon, and he's made three or he starts talking about brandon and he's talking about he's made you know three or four great swing through moves where he got into the paint but then whether it's you know his size or whatnot he tries to fade away from the contact and makes it a lot harder shot than it needs to be so you know magic's like you you you know tell him you know when he gets in there just that little sky that little jump one-handed hook shot right there would be so good with his length. I said, shit, you're Magic Jones. Yeah, go tell him.

That sounds a lot better coming from you than it does for me. You know, and then Magic went down there and worked with him on it. And it was, you know, it's obviously, like you said, he's one of the top five of all time, really. And when, you know, he's giving advice to players, I think it's very beneficial. He's incredibly famous. He's incredibly charismatic. And the thing that struck me when we were on the road that year we did the TV show together, the current players, even the stars, they turned them into silly putty.

We were there for game seven when Miami beat the Spurs, and LeBron came up to the studio to hang out with us. And LeBron, that's about as open as he's going to be in one of those interviews because Magic was right there. I think when you talk about Magic and Bird, and I'm sure Shaq is like this for some of these guys too, maybe not JaVale McGee, but most of them. But, yeah, I think when these guys that they grew up watching,

they carry so much weight. So having him around every day. And also like when you, you know, at some point you're going to have to recruit free agents, I think. Well, and he's created a $700 million business. Yeah, he's a good businessman. So like he's not just a basketball guy that's going to be a face and, hey, it's great to have Magic around.

He also knows what it's like to run a successful business. So he's got a business background and obviously what he's best known for is the basketball side of it. So there's a good combination of the two. It did feel like the Lakers had lost their luster and there was behind the scenes dysfunction and stuff like Durant not even coming here to get a meeting and things like that. And I think that's the part I think people are missing with the

Magic thing. It's like people are going to come for any meeting that he's going to be in. He's a face of a franchise. He's got charisma. He's got you know, he's going to change the energy. Well, yeah. And I'm sure you feel it already. You definitely feel it. He's got charisma he's got you know it's just he's going to change the energy well yeah and you i'm sure you feel it already yeah i mean you definitely feel it he's he's got a presence about him for sure and yeah it'd be nice to be able to get those free agents to you know to sit down with us so we can we can show them what we're about where we're headed what the game plan is and

you know that type of thing you, as far as being a part of bringing one of the best, you know, the best organization. Oh, come on. You guys count the Minneapolis titles. That's the part I don't get. There's 11 here and five in Minneapolis. And somehow it adds up to 16 for all the Laker fans. I don't get that.

Why not count them? Boston won 17 in Boston. The young players, when the trade deadline comes and then everybody just throws people in trades, could you feel, because you didn't have to worry about that last year in Golden State, could you feel like that was affecting anybody or not? Yeah, and I remember as a player it was the same thing. It's an uncomfortable time.

Especially now on Twitter, social media, they can just find that info right away. Yeah, and a lot of it's fake. The bad thing about, I mean, there's a lot of good thing about social media, but the bad thing is no one has to do any fact checks anymore. So anyone that wants followers can just blog whatever they want about, hey, they're going to trade this guy for that guy just to get people to look at their story. So I'm sure all these guys have alerts on their phones that are just popping up all the time about trades. But where we're at, you know, we know the most important thing for our future right now is our young core.

And we like our young core. Now, obviously, someone like Cousin's name comes available. You're willing to talk about it because he's that good. But for the most part, we had no plans on moving any of our young pieces unless something came along that was too good to pass up. What's been the biggest surprise for you being a head coach? What was the thing you didn't expect well from this stop to from the last stop to this stop i was coaching a young and experienced team versus the team you

just had i'll say one before even answering that the the time i spent as interim head coach there was the greatest experience i could have had because even up there with the success we had i was so overwhelmed with stuff i had no idea that Steve had to do as a head coach. Like what? Just media requests. I mean, your days were just. And then you get home from practice. As an assistant, I get home from practice.

If it wasn't my scout the next game, I was hanging with the family. I was done for the day. You get home from that long day, it's interviews and it's you know whatever else and you gotta you know find time to get you know some workout in for your own mental stability and then you get home and it's like oh it's you got to put together a practice plan for tomorrow now and we got to already think about what's happening tomorrow who we playing okay we got this game i gotta watch film on them so there there's just, it never, as the head coach, it never stops. Like there's always something to be done. So gaining that experience was huge. Yeah. It's almost like you went to grad school for it.

No. Yeah. Like your PhD for nine months. Yeah. It was awesome. I mean, seriously, awesome. They had to have that experience going in. And then, you know, obviously this is a completely different, you know, different role as far as where we're at and what's important to us from coaching. Is it weird to think about the fact that your fans at this point probably don't want you to win because of that draft pick? I mean, they're probably, we're hitting the center of the season where it's like, I hope they lose.

We were, that Charlotte game a couple nights in, oh, they were going nuts. That's good. They were into it. Our players were into it. So, yeah, it doesn't feel like that in Staples Center. The people that are showing up are still – I hate to say it, but the Lakers have good fans.

Yeah. I was always impressed. Especially, like, they have – any team that has just decades and decades and decades of fans. They go back to 1960 out here. You can feel it. You just got fans of all generations.

People have been there since 1968. I hate saying this, but I got to say it. It's true. And, you know, the fan base is – and this team has struggled for the last few years. The fan base is still here. I mean, you can't – all over town, there's Laker fans everywhere. The Lakers just do not have a history of being down for long. No.

It's just over and over again, it's maybe three, four years max, and then Kareem Abdul-Jabbar shows up or Shaq shows up. Yeah, but it's going to get, it's a lot tougher now. It is, because teams are smarter. And then to the CBA, The way it's set up now, you can't just go pluck some superstar like they've done in the past. Because now you can sign. The home team has such an advantage to pay more money and more years to all these all-star caliber players that you've got to be willing to turn down an extra $40, $60, $80 million

to go play somewhere else, which is not an easy thing to do. That's a tough one, too. It's such a weird conundrum to be like, I have more money here, but I'm probably not winning, or I could go there and I have a much better chance of winning, putting a price on what that is. Quick break to talk about our friends at SimpliSafe. You ever find out that when you're out of the house, maybe relaxing with your family and friends, you get that nagging feeling? Did I close the door?

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That's simplisafe.com slash ringer. Back to Luke Walton. What's the best thing you learned from Phil Jackson? I think, honestly, with Phil, I was always a really emotional player. Like, if I played bad or we lost, I just I couldn't sleep I couldn't eat and I was no fun to be around it affected how I was the next day and this you know I got in here with Phil and it was just you know his whole thing was like look you got to be right in the middle of the road you can't get there's moments you're going to be really high in moments you're really

low but have perspective on this and you're and you're you're at your best when you're going to be really high and moments you're really low, but have perspective on this and you're at your best when you're clear-minded and you're in control of everything. So I think the bigger picture of the game of basketball and in the game of life because it wasn't just the perspective of where we want to be on the court and how we're at our best on the court. It's basketball at the end of the day. You know, it's the most important thing to us. But win or lose, you do what you do. And then, you know.

Don't dwell on what just happened. Yeah, you got to go home and enjoy your family. And then come to work ready to work again tomorrow. But not dwelling on what happened yesterday. Like, let's stay present. Let's stay in the moment. And let's get, you know, get better. And I never, before I got here, I never really had that vision.

It was like, play as hard as you can. If you lose, you don't deserve to have dinner after the game type of attitude for whatever reason. And he really opened up my eyes as far as a bigger picture was concerned. And even to that point, you know, within the game, you know, how one pass, one bad pass to the ankle will start the ripple effect of an entire ugly possession of basketball. And then that one ugly possession turns into a mini run for the other team. And just that type of game within the game, how everything was connected and stuff like that, was new to me when I got here.

So how long does it take to convince a group of young players to embrace that mindset? It's different for everyone. It still took me a couple years yeah you know to really understand and accept what phil was teaching as far as that was concerned what about the ball movement stuff because like d'angelo's who i'm fascinated by i think he's really fun to watch but as you know one of those old school nick van exel has the ball in his hands all the time type and that's not how you want to play yeah well again so it's tough to answer the how long it takes because there's some games that uh that he does a great job of it yeah so we you know and then there's just like

anything everything with growth it never is just a straight line perfect oh you do it every day in practice they get better every game a little bit and then you're there there's always you know speed bumps and you and so there's games that are we're moving the ball and i'm like this is awesome we you know we're getting it we're understand it and then the very next game we come out and we play with no uh no no uh pace and no unselfishness it's like one guy trying to do it and then the next guy trying to do it so i don't know the answer yet because we're not there yet they bought in which is awesome and they're trying uh you know they're trying to play this certain this certain style in a certain way um but because obviously it's not natural for a lot of them you know a lot of these young guys

grow up in aau and the best kid shoots every time they get the ball. And if you win or lose, there's another game an hour later. Shrug it off. Yeah, it's whatever. I worry about that. I also think we're heading toward a place with the NBA where there's going to be like 90 point guards. And I think a lot of it has to do, I have no idea if this is true,

but in AAU, the point guard has the ball all the time for it they're playing eight games in a day and that guy just has the ball every second and now you're seeing the league and it just seems like it's getting easier and easier to find these random yogi feral types because there's so many of them that have the ball all the time yeah yeah i'm not a big fan of a basketball honestly i think i would i would have guessed that. I think it ruins what we, you know, so many, you learn so much fundamentals in high school, and then, you know, it gets more.

Did you play other sports, too, when you were? Up until high school. I played every sport up until high school. Once I got to high school, I was like. You had to specialize. I didn't have to, but I just, I loved basketball. There was no other,

I didn't want to spend time doing other sports anymore. Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to. And you had a chance to play in college and do this. But yeah,

I played, which is another bad thing in my opinion about AAU is they play year round now. So to me, you should be playing soccer. You should be playing basketball when it's basketball season,

baseball when it's baseball season. And, you know. That's not the climate now. The climate is, stick to one sport the whole time. Which is crazy. You should be playing basketball when it's basketball season, baseball when it's baseball season. That's not the climate now. The climate is stick to one sport the whole time. One sport, which is crazy. Private instructors. These guys are young. You've got to develop the passion for the game, in my opinion. And AAU now takes away from the high school coaches.

And to me, a lot of it is, look, just come play for our AAU team and we're going to get you the ball all the time. And we're going to win tournaments because we're going to, yeah, you got sneakers, whatever you got. You're also playing with all the other best kids in this region. So we're going to blow everybody out. And it's like, it just takes away from the fundamentals of the game. And, you know, it's like when I grew up playing basketball, if it was the offseason, me and my buddies would go to the park and play. We'd know what rec center each day of the week had the good games at it. So then you're playing in these games, and if you lose,

you're four games out before you get back on. So you do everything you can to win games. Well, and also who you're picking when you're there. You don't want to be the guy that's going to shoot the whole time. So there's all this interaction that's going on as far as how this works. And now it's like you go to AAU tournament, you fly in, there's reporters there that are writing about you. So you're nine years old and you're reading on social media

how good you are at the game of basketball. You have a YouTube mix. Exactly. Are you a lifelong coach? I want to be. You see doing this until you're like, I don't know, who's an old coach now? Who's the oldest NBA coach? I guess like Pop's got to be up there.

But do you see doing it until your 60s? I would like to. I love it. We've won 19 games this year, and I literally get – now there's a lot of nights I go to bed frustrated because I still don't handle losing great. But every morning I get in my car and start driving into the office, I get excited.

This is a phenomenal job. It's a lot of fun. You know, thinking about ways to get better and then watching players starting to slowly get better is really cool. That's awesome. And it's, you know, I will, yeah, I would like to be, you know, in this profession for a long time. Last question. Explain how Richard Jefferson is still a rotation guy on a really good team to me.

You want to know the truth? Just fucking explain this to me. It's amazing. You want to know the truth? He moved to the South Bay here in Hermosa Beach. So he was on his way out. I should mention he's one of your buddies. Yeah, he's one of my best friends.

He was out. He wasn't on his way out. He was out. He was thrown in with a first-round pick's one of my best friends. He was out. He wasn't on his way out. He was out. He was thrown in with a first-round pick to get him off a team. He was done. His lifestyle changed when he moved to Hermosa Beach, and this is how. So, you know, his body was breaking down a little bit, and he moved here, bought a house,

started playing beach volleyball with us every day in the summertime. So he's in the sand. He's jumping 1,000 times a day just hitting balls. Oh, wow. So his legs are getting. So then without even knowing it, everything's getting stronger again. And we play in the summertime. We play every day.

Yeah. So he's getting that workout in. So then, you know, in the South Bay, everyone does yoga, too. You know, it's all the California things that we get a bad rep for, but they're actually good for you. Hey, man. So he starts doing yoga so much, and he falls in love with yoga, he opens his own yoga studio out here.

What? So now, for the past four years, every offseason, he plays beach volleyball and does yoga five days a week. And that's how he's dunking on guys at age 37? To me, like he doesn't say this, but to me it's the only explanation. Because now all of a sudden, yes, he's dunking on people again at the age of 36 right now. But, yeah.

And he's playing great. He makes winning plays for them. He's effective, yeah. He's out there in crunch time. He's a huge part of why they beat us in the finals last year. When Kevin Love got hurt, they put him in, and his defensive intensity and switching onto our guards was a pretty big factor in the way that series played out.

That must have left you conflicted. No, no, there's no conflict. He's your buddy, though. I was miserable. You were mad at him? It's his favorite line now. We'll be playing whatever we're doing now. It doesn't matter.

The score will be 1-0 in anything. It's not over. I've been down much worse than this. That's his go-to line now, and it drives me crazy. He's a poor winner. Oh, that's terrible. And he had a lot of second places in his life up to that point. Bronze medal in the Olympics.

NCAA finals. We lost together. Nets. Twice, I think. When did you lose in the tournament? I can't remember. It was 0-1. Duke beat us.

And that was in the finals, though, or the semis? No, no, the championship. We lost. Was that the Trajan-Langdon? No, no, no. They had, so both teams were the same. God, all these, I'm so old now. All the March Madnesses blend together.

I can't remember. The only reason it doesn't to me is because I was in this one. Because you were in the game. Yeah, I, no. They had, so both teams were the best. God, all these, I'm so old now. All the March Madnesses blend together. I can't remember. The only reason it doesn't to me is because I was in this one. Because you were in the game. Yeah, I would imagine. It was Carlos Boozer, J. Will. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dunleavy. That was a good Duke team, though.

Dunleavy, Chris Duhon. Yeah. Shane Battier, Nate James. That was one of the last loaded college teams. In the whole Final Four, they were down 20 to Maryland in the semis when Maryland had Dixon and Steve Blake and Baxter. The kid had jumped really high, played in the league for a while. I can't think of his name.

We played Michigan State who had Zach Randolph and Richardson and those guys. So the whole Final Four was loaded. That's a good one. Who was on your team? You and Jefferson? No, no, no. So Jason Gardner, point guard. Gilbert Arenas, two guard.

Richard Jefferson, three. Michael Wright was the four. Lauren Woods was the five. I like Lauren Woods. And then I was coming off the bench on that team with Eugene Eggerson and Justin Wessel and guys like that. So you were there for early, early Gilbert. Early Gilbert was really good at the game of basketball. Gilbert is the most underrated guy from this century.

It was unbelievable. He has a year-and-a-half-long stretch where he's basically, if you just covered up his name and asked whose numbers these were, you'd be like, I don't know, is that Westbrook? Who is that? And we weren't even recruiting him until late. It was us, Cal State, Northridge, and Kansas State or something at the time. We jumped on late, and he signed with us.

Came in, stole the – Ruben Douglas, who was at my freshman class, was our starting shooting guard. Ended up leading the country in scoring at New Mexico after he transferred. And within the first two months of the preseason, Ruben was so – like Gilbert had taken the spot. Wow. Ruben just got up and transferred before the season started so he wouldn't miss an extra year.

And Gilbert was just this kid none of us had ever heard of that was cocky. I was going to ask, was he a little loopy back then? I'm guessing, yes. God. Everything. Everything was a practical joke. He missed out his calling on Twitter, but he was still one of the early internet basketball heroes.

Yeah, he was. He was one of the first ones to blog, all that stuff. Everything was a practical joke to him. Like on the road trips, he'd put pennies in everyone's hotel key doors so you couldn't get your key in there. But he was damn good at the game of basketball. He was really, really great. So Richard Jefferson, you need the Celtics to take care of him for a little revenge. I'll tell the Celtics.

In the Eastern Finals, if the Celtics and Cavs meet. He's still my best friend, so I'm still, I'm still, I'm pulling for him. I do want him to win. I do want him to win. Just at the time,

I had no love for, like, I wasn't like, well, if the Cavs win, it's okay, because we're in. They got Channing Frye on their team.

Like, that's fine. I really did not want them to win. But when I saw him afterwards and you see the joy that comes from that much hard work. I would argue he was one of the happiest. You can't help

but just feel happy for people like that. Could you coach him? Could he come back for one last year down the road? Or would that be too weird? That'd be tough. Assistant coach, maybe? Yeah. I mean, something. I would think it would be fun to coach him.

You just yell at him. Yeah, but there's also... Maybe that would be revenge for the finals. There's also relationships where he might forget that I'm his head coach and take it back to the fact that we've known each other for 20 years. And then it gets awkward. Yeah.

So we'll see. Luke, this was fun. Good luck with the rest of the year. I think, I don't know, you've got some good players, so it's going to take some time, but I think the foundation is definitely sitting there. Yeah, well, patience is going to be big, but we knew that coming into this.

They're a great young group of players to coach, and it's a lot of fun coaching them. And eventually we'll start winning. Good luck. Thank you. All right. That's it. Thanks again to SimpliSafe for sponsoring today's show. Don't forget, they released a brand new high definition security camera that connects your security system to your smartphone. That and the whole SimpliSafe program are just 15 bucks a month. Three times less than what other companies charge. Go check out the new camera today.

You'll get an exclusive 10% discount when you go to simplisafe.com slash ringer. And also thanks again to stamps.com for sponsoring today's episode. Man, I've been telling you this forever. Stop going to the post office. Buy and print official US postage for any letter, any package, any class of mail using your own computer and printer.

I don't even have to recommend this anymore because I've been doing it for 10 years. It's part of my life. Go to stamps.com right now and you can enjoy a special offer that includes a four-week trial plus postage and a digital scale without any long-term commitments. Go to stamps.com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage.

Type in my code BS. Stamps.com. Enter BS. And thanks again to the Ringer Podcast Network. Don't forget, we launched the Masked Man Show, new wrestling podcast with David Shoemaker. That's actually the one that used to be on Channel 33, but we liked it so much we gave it its own podcast feed. Check it out.

Go there right now. Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, Google Play, wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget about Food Week on The Ringer. All week, great videos, great podcasts, great pieces, great features, columns. And I even did a podcast for Channel 33 where me and Joe House broke down the top 50 fast food items. Go check that out on Channel 33. Enjoy the weekend. Back on Monday with a brand new podcasting.