The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 184: Isaiah Thomas and 'John Wick 2' With Shea Serrano

Episode Date: March 6, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Celtics All-Star Isaiah Thomas to discuss his recent success (02:00), dealing with larger players' physicality (05:00), the polarizing Marcus Smart (14:00), his favorite NBA teams (16:30), the best players from Washington state (19:00), All-Star Weekend (25:30), meeting Tom Brady (29:00), Floyd Mayweather's fandom (32:00), Iverson comparisons (38:00), and the Celtics' title chances (46:00). Then, Ringer writer Shea Serrano joins to give his thoughts on 'John Wick: Chapter 2' (57:00), who owns the action hero championship belt (1:12:00), and Keanu Reeves's next chapter (1:17:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's the Masked Man Show and Achievement Oriented available now for subscribers on iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Overcast FM, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. And finally, we have Isaiah Thomas coming up we taped this last Friday before the Celtics beat the Lakers and before they had one of the five worst losses in Celtics history that were not a playoff loss I can't even

I'm just dumbfounded I actually went on a YouTube rabbit hole last night trying to figure out if there was ever a worse regular season Celtics loss. The ones I can remember, Grant Hill threw an alley-oop to Lindsey Hunter with like three seconds left on the clock when ML Carr was the coach. And it tied the game. And it was the first time I think anyone had ever seen the alley-oop play. It was right after they had switched the clock from one second to actually the one-tenth of a second situation and that was during one of the lottery seasons i remember that one being terrible magic hit a running bank shot to win

a game in the boston garden that was really horrendous vince carter fall away three-pointer during like his first or second year in the garden during right when the Patino era was falling apart I remember that one being horrendous um and then Nick Van this was the one that I think was number one for me and it's random Nick Van Exel the last year of the Boston Garden Celtics are you know they're going to be an eight seed they're not going to make the finals or anything last time the Lakers play in the Boston Garden up up one, like two seconds left, Nick Van Exel hits a fallaway 28-footer to win the game. And that was the last Lakers-Celtics game in the Garden the Lakers won because of that garbage shot by Nick Van Exel.

I still hate him for it. I think that was the number one until the Celtic game where basically the game was over 17 times and somehow they blew it. Fumble away. Ridiculous three. It almost reminded me of those old commercials that they used to show in the 80s. It was like the fantastic finishes. NBA is fantastic commercial that are still on YouTube. It's awesome. The best one was this one. Jeff Malone on the Washington Bullets hit somebody threw a pass in the left corner, and he ran down, chased it, full speed, set his feet, and just flung up a three,

and it went in, and they won. That's the greatest shot anyone's ever made in the history of the NBA. But anyway, that sun shot that the Kentucky kid hit yesterday, wow. I really hope that's not the difference between a one and a two and a three and a four seed for the Celtics because that's one of the worst losses, non-playoffs ever in the history of the franchise. Anyway, Isaiah Thomas coming up. It's about 50 minutes. And then right after that, we have Shea Serrano coming on, because I saw John Wick 2 over the weekend. And it was unbelievable. And there's a bunch of sub-conversations springing out of it,

including should I have taken my son to it? My son is nine. Should I have taken my son to John Wick 2? Am I a horrible parent? Guess what? Shay took his twins to John Wick 2. So we're going to talk about horrible parenting and where Keanu, how long he's had the Action

Hero Championship, what's going to happen in John Wick 3, all that stuff. So spoilers galore. But if you care about John Wick at the end of this Isaiah Thomas interview, which is really interesting, get ready for that. All right, here we go. Eddie Vedder. It's late Thursday afternoon taping this with Isaiah Thomas, all-star Celtics point guard. Last night you were in Boston, Massachusetts.

Yes, sir. You played the Cavaliers of Cleveland. Yeah. You guys won the game. You had a couple big shots. It was a good game. It was a great game. LeBron hadn't lost in Boston in like four years. I didn't even know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Boston crowd doesn't like LeBron because he bitches for calls all the time. Yeah, they don't like that. I guess they don't. They don't like that. They announced his name and it was all boos. He broke some hearts, too. The 2012, which was like the last run of KG, Paul, and Ray, and 3-2 lead Eastern Finals. LeBron, that was the best game of his life.

Yeah. Broke the crowd. He didn't smile or nothing. He was like, he had a look in his eye. I remember that game. He broke the crowd. You seem like you're getting more of an edge as the season goes along. Is that fair to say?

Yeah. Okay. That's fair. All right. What's the reason? I'm just tired of the doubt. Tired of the doubt? You've been doing great.

I mean, it's, I don't know. I know I got to win. I got to win more. I got to get further in the playoffs for, I guess, people to lay off. But I'm just – Who are the people? Let's walk through this. There's still people out there.

Is this all the stuff like you can't play defense? Your defensive rating is bad? Exactly. There's still people out there that have doubt and say, I guess, negative things. But, I mean, I just – I want to win win and I want to be one of the best to play so I'm gonna just keep going so the defense stuff that always gets brought up with you it does because I mean you are five foot nine yeah but it's a thing to where like it's always been if a guy hits a shot over me it's he's a defensive liability if he hits a shot over a guy that's six one it's oh that was

just good good offense right it's it's always something that's where i'm trying to get to my my defense when people throw this at me is that the point is to win the fourth quarter and win the game and when you're on the four the offense is always going to be better than whatever happens in the defense yes So that's the advantage. I guess so. It is what it is, right? Yeah, it is what it is. I mean, if you're scoring and you're playing at this really, really high level,

both statistically and just with the points you're creating per possession, stuff like that, that's still worth whatever else is going on. I mean, as long as we win the game, like you said, that's all that matters. I've noticed a couple things with you. One is that you're definitely, I mean, as long as we win the game, like you said, that's all that matters. I've noticed a couple things with you. One is that you're definitely, I mean, not that you always had a chip on your shoulder, which we'll talk about, but it's definitely the chip's growing bigger. I can see it. But then also, teams are getting more physical with you.

Yeah, they are. I noticed this with Steph Curry last year. The book all of a sudden was out on Steph Curry. I'll just chip him, bang him. He's coming around picks, throwing elbow, throwing knee knee so when did that start it started last few weeks last month probably the last month yeah and it's and it's been it's getting more physical in the fourth quarter I mean teams are trying to do I guess everything they can to slow me down the fourth quarter and and and one thing they're doing is is they're being more physical with me I mean

they're hitting me off screens they're making sure is they're being more physical with me i mean they're hitting me off screens they're making sure i hit the ground every time i hit the paint or things like that so i i just like any i guess player you just gotta adjust you gotta just figure out what they're doing and do something else well my fear is you're gonna punch somebody i'm not okay good don't punch anyone because of all, you break your hand, you get suspended. And then that's going to cost you some money. So I don't like to give back any money. Yeah, because there's been a couple times I can see the red coming out of your eyes.

I got to hold back a little bit because I know what guys are trying to do. Have you been in a basketball fight ever? When I was younger, yeah. Not high school, college? No. No sanctioned game? No. No sanction game? No. I didn't want to get suspended the next day.

And, you know, nowadays, they're breaking it up anyway. Yeah, Jalen always calls it the hold me back fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold me back! That's what it is. That's what it is for sure. You had a good one, though, last week when you came flying in with the finger point. I was like, oh, God.

They thought I was pointing a gun. Yeah, what was that? I was just pointing., God, he'll be getting his way. They thought I was pointing a gun. Yeah, what was that? I was just pointing. You were just mad. I was pointing with two fingers, and they wanted to blow it up more than it was. But I was upset. I was upset with him pushing me. My fear with you since the day that the Celtics acquired you,

this is my favorite team, I've never seen anybody go into the lane and get bounced in more different, like you're going into the basket support, you're falling, you know, you're going sideways. I always think you're going to, like, break your wrist or whatever, but you've clearly learned how to fall. You're like a stuntman. So when did that start?

I guess when I was younger because I've always been the smallest guy in the court. I've always been the guy that goes in the paint and gets knocked down. So I had to figure out a way to withstand all that. And, I mean, there's some times where it hurts more than others. But for the most part, I guess I'm pretty good at falling. Was it last year when you got hurt? Yeah.

No, that was my – Or two years ago. Two years ago when I got traded. That was the worst fall I've ever had. So that was – What was that one? Against the Miami Heat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hassan Whiteside? Dwayne Wade. Yeah. Oh, Dwayne Wade. Yeah, that was it. You know his history with the Celtics. Yeah. He's taken out a bunch.

He broke Rondo's elbow. Yeah. Yeah. That's why when he comes to Boston, he gets booed too. The Celtic fans remember all that stuff. I know. Yeah. So the stuntman

thing that's like you're playing pickup yeah 12 13 guys knocking you down me playing with older guys when I was younger and always getting knocked down I had to figure out a way to to fall the right way I guess you could say and get back up when did you learn the um I mean you have so many different moves on the drives when did you learn the, I mean, you have so many different moves on the drives. When did you learn the little step back in the paint? Because it seems like that's gotten better in the last year. That's just something I guess I figured out by watching film. I might have did it on accident one time or a few times,

and then it was a move that was effective. And the last few summers I just started it was a move that was effective. Yeah. The last few summers I just started to work on it more and more, and it's a move that gets me separation. And with me being small, all I need is a little bit of separation to get my shot off or to make a play for somebody else, and those are the things I try to work on. Because people always ask me, like,

did you know Isaiah was going to score 30 points a game? Like, you you're watching all these games and it's like the two things that seem different one is that that shot in the paint which i don't feel like you had mastered yet until this year the little blooper shot yeah it's like basically unstoppable because you're falling back yeah it's a little like even though you're like 15 inches smaller than the Dirk shot when Dirk started a master foul line fall away just create like that one inch but then the other thing you probably don't want to talk about this but they don't call you for the right-handed push-off anymore because you're a star now they used to call you for that yeah I guess they used to call you for the shove-off they give me those now you get the you get thestar respect. Yeah. It doesn't seem like it, but I guess now that you say that, they definitely don't call it.

Yeah, you get it now. And then you have long arms, and I think big guys always forget. A, they always forget who's left-handed. Yeah, that's the toughest part. That's a big advantage. That's a big advantage. Guys, even for myself, guarding a left-handed guy, it's tough to guard because you're so used to guarding right-handed players. Especially you get tired.

I used to hate when I—I'm retired now, but when I used to play lefties, especially if you're on your fourth or fifth game or second hour playing, you just kind of forget and they're going by you. And then you have – you'll come on the right sometimes, but you've got the long arm. You can do the reverse layups, which the big guys never see coming every time. They always think you're going – because you're shorter, you're going right to the closer side of the rim and you go under.

I just try to maneuver around them. What about the three-point shot? That's just practice? That's just reps, repetition. I worked on my shot a lot this summer. I mean, I do every summer, but this year I worked on a lot of off-the-dribble threes and getting to my shot quicker when I have a live dribble. So I know most of my points and most of my shots come off not catching shoot,

but most of them come off me handling the ball or coming off the pick and roll and shooting. So I worked a lot on that, and I wanted to raise my shooting percentages and become more efficient, and luckily that's happened this year. How can you tell the difference between a heat check and this is just what you do? I'm probably the deeper the shot. If I hit two in a row, that third one's going. From 30?

The other team knows it, so I got to shoot it a little deeper. Yeah. So the Celtics acquired you. It was like a fluke. It was. You somehow end up in Phoenix, and they have multiple point guards. And it was one of those things like every year one NBA team tries something, and you know it's not going to work.

Even before the season starts, you're like, what are they? Like Orlando was like that this year. It's like, we're getting all these big guys, and we're going to play Aaron Gordon at the three. And it's like, that's not going to work. And then now it's like, oh, Aaron Gordon's a four. But when they did that with the point guards in Phoenix, and you have you and Dragic and Bledsoe,

and you're all out there at the same time, I'm not against the small ball thing, because you guys do it with Marcus and Avery sometimes or Rozier. But all you guys need the ball. All us it just it sounded good yeah when when they i guess presented it it sounded good but it just it just it didn't work like you said all of us needed the ball to be effective i mean i was more of a i could play off the ball a little more than those two guys but yeah for the same the same, everybody needed the ball to be who they were, and it just didn't work. Why do you think it didn't work out in Sacramento?

Because I've heard various – I can give you all the reasons I've actually heard. Give them to me. I've heard that the stars that were there at the time wanted a point guard who was more pass first. You agree with that or disagree? I've heard that. Yeah. I've heard that they just underestimated you because they weren't very competent. That too.

And I heard that they just liked, they just wanted to get somebody like Darren Collison and that. Yeah, they just, they didn't want me. I mean, that's what it came down to. You played well for them though. That's the part I don't get. Especially that last year i was there with coach mike malone he was a big fan of mine and he was a big supporter of mine but it was every year they were bringing somebody else in to somewhat replace me or yeah send me to the bench and me have a bench role and i just i outplayed

whoever they brought in every year and then it came to a point where it was like you guys are just obviously you don't want me right because or you don't want me to be to outplay whoever you bring in and that's that's not me I mean I I love competition and if I feel like I'm better than somebody um I'm gonna I'm to show you how I feel. So when the Celtics made that trade, I mean, I didn't know enough about the situation. I'm like, was he like a head case there? So, you know, go on the Internet, start Googling stuff, going on message boards. And all the Kings fans liked you. Yeah, the Kings.

They were all like, we don't know why we traded this guy. The city, the fans, the community, they loved me since day one. They welcomed me with open arms, and it was tough when I did leave. The city, they heard about it. I mean, they told them how they felt, and then it was just something I had to move on. It was a battle I was fighting. They obviously wanted somebody else, which that is fine. So you go

to Phoenix, then you end up in the Celtics and you get kicked out of the first game. First game. Which I think was in Phoenix, right? No, no. Oh, in LA? Yeah, yeah. He was playing the Lakers. Yeah. First game, it was probably, I think it was like five minutes left in the fourth quarter. He was playing pretty well. They gave me

a double T. I remember it was a quick one. Quick yeah i remember the referee the next time we seen him he apologized because it was too quick it was like i don't have the reputation of of arguing or getting technicals and then i got thrown out and i remember going in the back and brian do our strength coaches like celtics fans are gonna love you and i didn And I thought people were going to be mad at me. I'm like, man, this is my first game. They're going to kill me. He's like, they are going to love you.

And I didn't understand why until I got to the Garden and was able to play. There's some dudes on the Celtic team that tap into things that Boston fans love. I think Marcus is a great example. The casual Celtic fans, Marcus. The casual fan, though, with Marcus. That's what I mean. Casual fan doesn't get it. The fans that actually watch the games,

Marcus is our dude. He's amazing. Love that guy. He always makes one play. He can be 0 for 15. Maybe yesterday he took a charge in the Cavs game. Two of them, back to back. Yeah, it's always something.

Rebounding traffic. Got a steal. You can't ever underestimate him. He's always going to surprise you in some way. Does he talk the most on the team on the court? He's somewhat quiet. Yeah? I mean, he talks, but for the most part, he doesn't talk unless somebody's talking to him.

Since somebody gets going? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or he got to stop somebody, then he'll start talking a little bit. It seems like you guys annoy people. You have a lot of mini feuds. Oh, yeah. The Celtics team. I mean, I annoy people on the offensive end. Smart and Avery and Jay, they annoy people on the defensive end.

Yeah. We're just that team that's kind of been counting out our whole career. Like every guy, individual guy has been counting out at some point in their career. Chip on the shoulder team. Chip on the shoulder. But let's see, Washington, that's a feud now. Yeah. That's a feud.

Seven game series against Washington I think will. That would be a good one. That would be a good one. Toronto, I don't feel like there's a lot of love there. There isn't. That would be a good one. Toronto, I don't feel like there's a lot of love there. There isn't. That would be a good one. Atlanta, that's been written about, there's no love. Yeah, we need that back.

There's the point guard. There's point guard. He said, she said stuff with the German guy. Yeah. Whatever. Houston, that was a good one. That was. We got a few teams there.

The only two times a year, but that was... Yeah, yeah, but that was good. Both times was we got a few teams the only two times two times a year but that was yeah yeah but that was that was a good both times both times

yeah so we got a few teams that we battle against Clippers I feel like could get there you play them Monday yeah cause the Clippers

everybody nobody gets along with them so it's like it's like your destiny nobody really likes yeah Blake Blake's kinda almost like belongs

to the Celtics cause he he rubs everyone the wrong way for some reason. Why do some players do that? I don't know. Because I have Clipper season tickets, even though I'm a Celtic fan. But I'm always amazed by the other teams just go out of their way to try to antagonize Blake.

There's certain guys that try to get in their heads. I don't know. I don't got to guard them. Yeah. I mean, I watch a lot of basketball, and I see the guys be going at them. Go at them big time. So you have a five-game road trip.

Yeah, big road trip. What's your process on a road trip? Taking one game at a time. Try to attack every game. What do you do on the road? Go to movies? Yeah, I try to. I mean, I go to movie every game. What do you do on the road? I chill. Go to movies? Yeah, I try to. I mean, I go to movie theater across the street. I might go to something tonight.

But for the most part, I be in my room. I got League Pass on my computer. You got League Pass on your iPad? Yeah, yeah, on my computer. I watch that. And then when they got national TV games, I'm a fan of the game. I love watching all. So you're studying.

Are you studying people or you're just watching as a fan? Studying and watching. So who are your favorite teams this year to watch? I mean, the Warriors are always fun to watch. Right. Warriors. I got friends on the Clippers, so I watch them. Like I said, I like to watch everybody.

The Warriors, huh? You guys match up pretty well with them. Yeah. The weirdest thing about this Celtics team is they can hang with the Warriors and the Cavs, who are the two toughest teams. And you actually – you guys match up well with Cleveland. Yeah, we usually play well. And then there's other teams that aren't as good of a matchup.

And then we – Yeah, I think Washington, I need to see a Celtics victory over Washington. Yeah, we haven't played well. You need to play well against them. We played well one time at home, but we haven't played well on the road against those guys. They have backcourt with size. They have a small – Porter's playing really well.

Gortat's killed the Celtics since he was on Orlando. I don't know what it is. They play well. They get up against us too, so we just got to – I think we play them one more time maybe. Are they going to dress in all black for that one, you think? I hope they do. I was against that.

I thought that was a layup. Yeah, that was uncalled for. What are we, like a junior high? But that's, I guess, what they wanted to do. This is good. You guys are becoming like the villains of the league. Yeah, nobody likes playing against us, though. I mean, we play hard.

Right. You know, NBA teams, most of them are a little casual. We play, we play hard. Right. You know, NBA teams, most of them are a little casual. We play, we get down and dirty. I mean, we got guys that don't care.

Who's your favorite guy to go against? In the NBA? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I always like the big games.

I mean, I like going against Cleveland. I like playing against the Warriors. Those are the games the whole world is watching. Yeah, but I'm going to get this answer out of you, even though you're being political. Okay, I like playing against guys I'm friends with. So the Seattle guys, Jamal Crawford, when Nate Robinson was in the league. Now we're talking.

That was going to be my first guess. He's older, but he still plays for the Bucs. I like playing against friends. Even Chris Paul, he's a good friend of mine. I like going against guys I'm close with. Who were the point guards drafted ahead of you in your draft? Let's go there. I bet one of those guys is on the list.

I mean, Kyrie was number one. Norris Cole, he was drafted ahead of me. I'm amazed you can't rattle this off. I would have thought you would be able to rattle off all 59. No, I really don't care about it no more. I don't believe that. There's a lot of guys, guards that were drafted, a few guards drafted ahead of me that aren't even in the NBA anymore.

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The Washington area? No. Who is it? Well, you made the all-star team. Did any of the Washington guys make the all-star team? They didn't. You have the championship belt. That's it.

You won it. You got to make it. Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry are still the— I didn't see Jamal Crawford on all-star weekend. That's it. You won it. You got to make it. Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry are still the... I didn't see Jamal Crawford at All-Star weekend. You're right. I mean, they haven't been All-Stars, but Jason Terry has won an NBA championship, Sixth Man of the Year award. He's my age.

You're right. And he's still in the NBA. I got to pay homage to my older guys. All due respect. I get it. You got to email Jamal Crawford. I was like, I did Simmons' podcast. He reminded me that I have the Seattle championship belt

because I made the All-Star team. Maybe soon. I'll get it. How many years? Jamal's like what? Six, seven years older than you? No, no, no. I'm 20.

I just turned 28, Jamal. Jamal's like 35 now. He's 36, so he's eight years older. He's really one of the original heat check guys. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Every shot's a heat check. So when was the first time you played against him?

You must have idolized him. Probably when I was 14 or 15 when I first met him and got to play against him and build a relationship with him, and it's been good ever since. So I've seen him. I mean, he's a legend back home. Yeah, I was going to say. Everybody wants to be like Jamal Carver back home.

Where do we stand on Markel Fultz? Number one pick. Does he count as a Washington guy? Yeah, he lives in there. He's not from there, though, right? He's not there now. He's from D.C., I think. But, yeah, he's special.

Number one pick for sure. How many Washington games do you watch? When you can? When I can. He's special. I've watched a few because I don't know if you're aware of this

but the Celtics might have a high draft pick. Yeah, and if they get him go get him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go get him. He does some stuff. When I played with him

this summer when he first got on campus and I first played with him like after we played with him I'm like he's an NBA player like he has it he has it he has it he's special the thing that see the point guard position has really evolved over the last 20 years right because everyone does this AAU circle now

yeah and whoever really has the ball from the get-go that guy has the ball all the time like 25 years ago i think he's a he's a two guard they just try to turn him now in houston but now people see somebody like him and they're like well he should have the ball in his hands but it does seem like we're headed toward a world where there's going to be too many point guards even the celtics have three guys who are technically point guards it probably is i mean everybody they're making everybody a point guard yeah or at least

somebody who can be a creator yeah like the best most likely the best player who can create and score is the point guard right

but it seems like we're gonna see less Klay Thompson types as we keep evolving yeah probably the guy who's like you know what I'm gonna do you guys dribble

I'm just gonna run around screens and get in the ball because nobody's gonna get you're not gonna hit the ball yeah nobody wants to do that but if I could shoot like Clay Johnson

I would make it easy as possible the Washington thing Jamal Crawford Jason Terry you there's like two other guys though we didn't mention Zach Levine Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, you. There's like two other guys, though, we didn't mention.

Zach Levine. Oh, Zach Levine. Marvin Williams, Spencer Haas. Our list has gotten shorter the last few years, but. I wonder, do you think the fact that the Sonic. Avery Bradley. I thought he was, he's from Washington? Yeah, we're from the same neighborhood, Tacoma, Washington. Oh, I knew this. You guys knew each other from neighborhood, Tacoma, Washington. Oh, I knew this.

You guys knew each other from way back. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, I mean, we got a few guys. Did you care about the Sonics? Yeah, I love the Sonics. How do we get them back? Adam Silver, hopefully.

I think it's going to happen in the next three years. I think it will, too. I think there's going to happen in the next three years. I think it will, too. I think there's going to be an expansion team. I hope. Everybody I talk to that's been around the NBA, they always say they missed that Seattle trip. I was thinking if it was like a Seattle-Vancouver. Either or.

Both of those came back. Yeah. Then that's like the swing. I've never been to Vancouver, but they say it's beautiful. People who, I know people who worked in the league, they said losing Vancouver and Seattle was like a tragedy for the road trips. That was like the best. It's like a five-year stretch where that was like the best road trip.

Because there's a few road trips. What happens when you go back now? I lived there in the summer. It's all love. Yeah, but now you're more famous than you were a year two years ago famous that boston thing is is is getting me a lot more famous yeah we 17 titles it's a famous franchise exactly they're on tv a lot so they know me everywhere now yeah so what happens people treat you differently? I mean, they do. They, I mean, ask for autographs, pictures. I mean, I'm like before, before I got to Boston, if you were like a real fan of mine, you would know who I am if I'm walking the street. Yeah. But like a average person is, I'm, I blend in with everybody.

So I don't look like a basketball player, but now it's like, it's hard to walk places. Every, I mean, a lot of people know who I am and that's yeah but you like that that's that's from being in Boston but you can blend in too which is the good oh I could just put a hat on nobody would even notice I know how to make it work but a lot more people notice me than before I was a Celtic when do you think the Boston fans fell in love? Because it's crazy now. It is. I grew up there, and I still have friends there.

Somewhere when you started going on your December streak, it started to creep toward the end. Then all of a sudden, something snapped. Now it's like the jerseys are everywhere, and it's starting to happen. It's been love since I've gotten here, but it's crazy now. Sometimes in the games I just sit back and look, and I'm like, man, this is what you dream of. As a little boy, kids wearing your jerseys, adults wearing your jersey, and then when they chant MVP

when I'm at the free throw line, it doesn't even seem real. I'm just trying to stay in the moment right now. I appreciate all the love. But, like, without my teammates and Brad giving me the opportunity to be who I am, it wouldn't be no me right now. It wouldn't be where the level it is right now. Did All-Star throw you off at all? Because that could be a whirlwind.

You have to do these Saturday, you have to do Sunday. I mean, All-Star is fun. You didn't sleep one of, you have to do Sunday. I mean, all-stars fun. You didn't sleep one of those days? All-stars fun is just a lot. It's a lot. You got appearances, you got events you got to go to, and then the last thing you're worried about is the game. That's the crazy thing.

Before you go, you think you're going to be worried about the game, but you have so many other things you have to do before the game, and that's like the last thing on your mind. Well, the good thing is none of the players in the game really care about the game anymore so it's not like i wish that would change i hope that changes in the in what do we have to do i don't know i don't know i think when i watched all-star games growing up you knew when the end of the third quarter fourth quarter it got serious guys were trying to win. And the last two years I've been in it, it's been like just getting cardio. It's going up and down.

What's weird to me is, let's say you played in a pickup game in Washington, and there was like 10 NBA players in the game. All of you would try harder than they would in the All-Star game. I think if maybe if LeBron went hard, everybody else would follow suit. Because they'd be like, dang, if he's going hard, we got to go hard. I think that was the thing with, not to put it on LeBron, I just know everybody watches LeBron. You follow the alpha dog.

Yeah, yeah. Like if Kobe went hard, everybody had to. Right. Same thing with Michael Jordan. Westbrook's over there going I'm always going to go hard I don't care

where you guys are going he has one motor so he I can't scale it back he don't know how to be cool

but I think if those type of guys went hard for a certain amount of time and then everybody else would fall suit

what if every player in the game had to bet $500,000 of their own money for the winner? I feel like people would play harder at that point. Guys would be picking up full court.

Guys would be talking on defense. Guys wouldn't want to come out the game. I know that. I'm bummed because I used to love the All-Star game because, as you said, whatever. It was an exhibition for three games. But about nine minutes left, it was really a nice snapshot of the league. And it'd be like all right here are our five but we're trying to win now here are five best here are the five best on the other side and it would actually became basketball and it was always fun for me to see i wonder who the five guys are who's what are they gonna do and

now it's like the moment's gone and now it's like you guys are all friends now too yeah that's the other thing changed your buddies now time changed everybody's close the bird of magic days well you're not fortunately you have you still kept some minor enemies semi-enemies though like so you're you're in the locker room with john wall and your teams don't like each other what's that like with john though so it's when we're on the court we though. So when we're on the court, we're battling. But when we're off the court, we're cool. I've been cool with him since high school. So none of that extra stuff goes off the court with us.

Okay. But when we're on the court, don't talk to me. I'm trying to win. I don't know you right now. Were you fond of Durant-Westbrook stuff or no? I mean, the whole world is. The whole world is. Hopefully one of them talks to each other.

I don't know. It'll happen before 2050. It definitely will. 2049, something like that. Were you in on the recruiting trip for him? Yeah, with Durant. To the Hamptons? Yeah, the Hamptons.

That was a nice place. Yeah. Never been. The Hamptons is nice. It's like Cape Cod, but even nicer. That was nice. Yeah. So you guys went and you told him all the secrets for how the Celtics played the Warriors?

Yeah, and then he just took the info like an FBI agent. He probably had it on record, too. We told him all. We tried to get him, but I guess that's what it takes. So, I mean, you literally said, when we play Golden State, we do this, this, this. This is how we beat Cleveland. When we play it, when we beat those guys. And, I mean, they probably don't care about it no more, though.

Did you think leaving that you had a chance or no? I really thought we did i thought maybe if we had how al horford in that meeting and he said he was already a celtic i think that would have gave us a little edge i think that would have put us over the top did you get to meet tom brady at least oh yeah that was the best part about it yeah i know ke know Kevin Durant, so I've talked to him, and I know him. But Tom Brady, that was the best part about being there. The GOAT. Yeah.

Greatest of all time. What was that? What do you remember from the Tom Brady meeting? Everything. This is just for me. I don't even care about the people listening to the podcast. No, everything. Like, when you walked in, you just felt his presence.

Well, he's tall, right? He's tall. You didn't expect him to be, like, 6'5". Yeah, I didn't know he was that tall. You just felt his presence and you felt there was greatness in the room. And it wasn't basketball. Did he have the rings on?

No, no. He was stylish but he didn't have nothing. He was just, I guess, being Tom Brady. The city of Boston, can you imagine another city bringing a star athlete from another team in the city for a recruitment meeting? That sums up Boston for me.

Like, when I seen Tom, I'm like, how the hell did y'all get him to come here? Like, I was surprised. That's when I went in like, yeah, we're getting him. We're getting him. Right. Do you notice when you're at the home games, do you look like Belichick was at that Cleveland game? Yeah, I went to shake his hand. That was my first time.

In the timeout, I went over there and shook his hand and shook his wife's hand. Like I said, I'm a fan of sports. So when I see guys like that, I think Edelman was at the game a couple nights ago. Oh, Edelman's available. I gave him a head nod. I like to interact with those type of guys. Yeah. Explain the Floyd Mayweather thing to me. Because he's now, like, the number one Celtics fan.

He is. He got Celtics gear, too. He's going. He's, like, traveling on the road and stuff. That's my guy. Close friend of mine. I met him. I think it was a year before I went out for the draft I went

to go watch him work out in Las Vegas at his boxing gym and then he knew who I was he was a fan of basketball so he knew who I was and we met through mutual people and then it was all she wrote after there we we support each other. He's a good friend of mine, a mentor that gives me advice on how to be great. So, like, even meeting, like, Tom Brady and sitting down with Kobe Bryant, like, those type of guys I want to be around because I want to one day, hopefully, be great and learn from those guys. How many games does he come to? He comes a couple a year.

I mean, he comes a couple in Boston. Seems like it's he come to? He comes a couple a year. I mean, he comes a couple in Boston. Seems like it's more than that. He comes a couple in Boston. He'll be in Miami because he lives in Miami too. He comes to those two. He'll be in the L.A. games. Oh, yeah, he'll definitely be there. So he comes to a few.

Or if we play in New York, he always stops. I like when he comes with his, I guess, their bodyguards. Oh, yeah, the big guys. And they stand behind his seats at the Clipper games. I don't know if you've been to a Clipper game, but Floyd's not in danger at a Clipper game, I don't think. Definitely not. It's the most mellow crowd that played it.

Definitely not. But, yeah, Floyd, it's a scene when he comes. I don't know how he gets the courtsides. It's a scene everywhere he goes. He's only sitting courtside. I know. He even came when I played in Sacramento, he was at the games. That's probably easier toide. He even came when I played in Sacramento he was at the games. That's probably easier to get

the courtsides in Sacramento. So is he on the bandwagon? Does he think we can beat him? He's a fan. Does he break down afterwards? Like, man, I was worried about... He'll try to break some stuff down, but sometimes I'll be like, okay, champ.

I got it. What about Boogie? You friends with him at this point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my guy. Were you surprised that he basically got stolen

for a non-lottery pick? Especially right after the All-Star game. I was surprised. But that's Sacramento for you. The people can't see you smiling right now. The people know I love Sac. I love Sac.

Man, they love me. I love them. It's just. All right, you don't have to rave about them this much. I'm just saying, I do love Sac. Now you're making me jealous a little bit. They show me a lot of love. But Boston's the best, but Sacramento's fine to rave about them this much. I'm just saying, all right. Now you're making me jealous a little bit. No, they show me a lot of love. But Boston's the best, but Sacramento's fine.

Boston's on a different level. So when you talk about Boston, I don't know if there's any organization you can talk about when you talk about Boston. The boogie thing, does he have his revenge at some point? Does it happen in New Orleans? Does he have to be on a certain type of team? He'll get his revenge.

I don't know where it's going to be. What's the right offense for him? Give him the ball and get out of the way. He's unguarded. He's unstoppable. I mean, you can't do nothing with that guy. He can shoot threes now. You got to double him in the post.

He can pass. He can do threes now. You got to double him in the post. He can pass. He can do it all. So I don't know if New Orleans is the right place for him, but, I mean, we'll all find that out. Did you think there was a chance that he might end up on the Celtics? I mean, you always heard the rumors. You just never knew if they were true or not. What's the most misunderstood thing about him?

That he really is a good guy. People judge him because of how he acts on the court, which he just wears his emotions out of his sleeve and you can't, I mean you can't fault him for that. Yeah, he needs to cut down on his technicals and things like that, but overall, DeMarcus is a good guy. And he's one of my good friends. He's a total opposite off the court. Yeah.

Joking around, always clowning on people, always. He'll light up a room. He'll make a room laugh. And that's the side people don't see. The way it seems to be explained is he has very few people that he – he has a small inner circle, right? Very few people that he trusts. Yeah, he don't trust.

But if you're in the circle, you're in. You're good. Because I'm out. He knocked me out. He's mad that I didn't vote him for All-NBA last year and he blocked me on Twitter and I'm just out. That's it. He was my guy.

Once you're out, you're out. He was my guy. He said, on national TV, Jalen and I are yelling boogie. Yeah. That was my dude. You're out You're out He was my guy He said On national TV Jalen and I Yelling boogie Yeah That was my dude You might have to send him that

Once you're out You're out Once you're out I'm out I have no chance of coming back But if you're in there Yeah He's gonna ride with you

To the end I'm in there In my defense There was times I wasn't in there though Yeah Which you did Cause I'm the guy that

They look to I had to'm the guy that they look to. I had to be the guy that just tell them. When guys didn't, I guess, were scared to talk to him. I didn't back down from him. But he respects me. I respect him. And we always had that relationship. It seems like he could be a difficult teammate if it was the wrong type of teammate, right?

If somebody is soft, he's if somebody's soft if you're soft you you can't be on that team right you can't you know he you walk in this room and you're soft he you know he's gonna pick on you but i mean that's just him it's not a bad thing what does that mean for a coach either you stand up to him or you're done. You got to stand up to him. He respects when people stand up to him. I know that. Mike Malone, he respected him. Yeah. From day one.

From day one. And Mike Malone, I mean, earned his respect. He didn't back down. And not saying they were fighting, but he just said this, I'm the coach, you're the player. Well, it seems like a little bit what happened with Cleveland, LeBron didn't seem like he respected David Blatt for whatever reason. Ty Lue came in.

Ty Lue stood up to him, respected him. I don't know that situation, but it seemed like that from afar. You know, I was looking. There was some list of the shortest players in the history of the NBA and people like basically 5, 10 and under, there's only been, I think, 12 guys that were 5, 9 and under. And you were by far the most successful of them. But when I watch you play, I don't think like you're 5'9".

I don't feel 5'9". I mean, you got long arms, too. So it's like you're really like six feet. When I'm out there, I feel like I'm just as tall as everybody else. Like kids always ask me that, too. Like, how do you do it? How do you? When I'm out there, I feel like I'm just as tall as everybody else. Like kids always ask me that too. Like how do you do it? When I'm out there, I don't see height. I promise you I feel like I'm just as tall as those guys.

How tall were you when you were like 15, 16? Same height. Probably like 5'7". Oh, yeah? Yeah. Because there's this picture of you and Kevin Love, which I'm sure you saw. Okay, okay. Yeah, I was small. All right's this picture of you and Kevin Love, which I'm sure you saw. Okay, okay. Yeah, I was small.

All right. You looked like you were a baby. I looked like I was probably 10 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't have the weight on me either. Because I'm trying to think. I think I was 15 then. Yeah, you were like 15 or 16.

I loved the NBA forever. And I'm trying to think of like smaller players that could exert their will offensively. One of the guys we had in the Celtics when, you know, going game season tickets, Tiny Archibald. Yeah. And it was after he had torn his Achilles in Buffalo. But he was still good. He was like 85%, 90% of what he used to be. That dude could get to any spot he wanted he was probably

like six feet tall but he was lefty like you and uh was just a floor jet but would bounce off people like you did go in traffic and then iverson is the only other one that i feel like i you know you guys had different styles but the same kind of iverson first of all was not he always said he was like six feet there's no way he was six feet he's like yeah I was gonna say five ten the tallest yeah I'm gonna say five ten yeah but same thing would just go in like a battering ram bounce off dudes keep getting up so was he an inspiration inspiration that's who I wanted to be like he was the best to do it pound for pound have Have you met him as he reached out to you? Yeah.

Allen Iverson texted me last night after the game. Oh, so you're like, this is huge. All right. I'm telling you. Man, the great players, if I'm able to reach out to them and talk to them, I don't got no ego. I want to pick their brains. And Allen Iverson is a guy I looked up to since I was a little boy.

I wanted to be like him. For me to be able to build a relationship with him the last couple years has been amazing. I mean, once he told me I was cut from the same cloth as him and I remind me of him, like nobody can tell me nothing. So I checked out your background. You grew up in Washington, but then you went to prep school in Connecticut. I went to prep school in Connecticut, South Kent. Which is the opposite.

It's about as far away as you can get from Washington. What was that like? It was horrible. You like it? I mean, the basketball part of it was great because the competition was really good but I mean I was across the country away from my family all boys school you had to wear you as an all boys school you had to wear slacks blazer tie every day yeah it was tough it was different from what I'm used to but when I look back at it was the best thing that's ever happened to me was it one year to two two years it made me grow up made me understand how to take

care of my responsibilities at all boys school it was horrible did you guys at least get to go like a dance with the sisters yeah you can yeah they had dances on the weekends so All the girls' schools and boys' schools would meet. I didn't go to those. You didn't go to them? I was so depressed. I stayed in my room. Just in your room? I stayed in the gym.

Maybe that was good for you. You were working on your game. It was great for me. I just hated it at the time. I was 16 years old, away from home. Only friends I had was on the basketball team. It was bad. How'd you end up there?

My grades. I needed to fix my grades in order for me to accept my scholarship to Washington. And what made you want to leave after your junior year? Did somebody tell you you were getting drafted higher than 60? Or were you just ready to go? I felt like there was nothing else. Realistically,

there was nothing else to improve my stock other than winning a national championship but how realistic was that? I won three Pac-10 championships, went to the tournament three years in a row.

I hit that game winning,. I hit that game winning. When I hit that game winning shot, that's when I knew I was out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they didn't say I was going to be 60th. Like, it was. I remember being. Yeah, you should have been the 30th. Yeah.

The beginning of the second was, it was probably no later than the 40th pick is what I was going to be. And I was fine with that like i was like i know the pros and cons of everything of the decision i made and i'm gonna go with it but i didn't i didn't think i was gonna be 60th when when did you start getting bummed out what pick i know the lakers have four picks in the second round. I think the last pick they had may have been 56. And after they didn't pick me, because I worked out for them and they said they were interested, they really liked me, they needed some guards.

After they didn't pick me, I didn't think I was going to get drafted. I forgot about Sacramento. That was my first workout. Yeah. So I wasn't even thinking about sacramento after they didn't pick me i was like man it might i might not get drafted that was going through my head but then about around the 58th pick my agent had called me and said sacramento would pick me with the last pick and i i was fine with that what draft was that 2011

11 man i'm pretty sure the lakers could have used a younger point guard. They had four picks? I don't even remember this. They drafted two point guards, Darius Morris and Andre Goudalas. Oh, see, he does remember the people in the draft. I knew it. You tried to play the, oh, I don't remember all the point guards. Yeah, okay.

They drafted them two guys. I know that. All right. Can we win the title. I know that. All right. Can we win the title? I'm going to use we. We? Yeah. Okay.

Why'd you pause? I don't know. But I believe we can. I'm not going to say we're going to. I think you can make the finals. Absolutely. Yeah. And if you make the finals Anything can happen

Yeah I got I got faith in this team I think we can We definitely need to get out The first round first Yeah How about this

We need to win a playoff game Exactly Figure that out But I'm not going to put a ceiling On this team Like If we bring it

We can compete with anybody in this league. I forgot to ask you about Jalen Brown. I've become quite attached to him. He's special. People are putting him in trade rumors. I'm like, get him the F out of the trade rumors. We're going to trade Jalen Brown. He's good.

And he's going to be really good. And he works hard, right? He works hard. He's slowly catching on to how to play in the NBA game. Yeah. I mean, he's got size. He's athletic, got size. He can shoot.

He's a fantastic defensive player, potentially, when he figures it all out. And that's what Brad and this organization is about. Yeah. A guy that can switch multiple positions, guard multiple positions. He's good. I love Jalen. I like that he's not guard multiple positions. He's good. I love Jalen. I like that he's not afraid to shoot. He's definitely not.

Normally with rookies, yeah, no, that's what I mean. Like he'll play 15 minutes, but he's in the corner with four minutes left on the road. Yeah. And he won't be like, oh, should I shoot this? He just shoots it. No, he's not thinking twice, and that's a good – sometimes you're like, ah, Jalen passed it. But that's a good trait to have when he's not afraid of the moment. He's super smart too, right?

Yeah. Is he too smart? He's not that smart. Okay. We joke around. You make fun of him? We joke around with the team because he thinks he's so smart. He's not that smart.

How does somebody – how does it even come out on the plane nah he might be a smart kid in the academics in books and things we don't see yeah we always joke around with him cause he

he walks around like he's the smartest guy in the world right does he wear like those glasses to make himself seem smart sometimes sometimes he wears turtlenecks and stuff

we joke around with Jalen it's all fun and games in our locker room. But, yeah, he's the fake smart guy in the locker room. Who's the funniest guy in the team? Gerald Green. Gerald Green? I wouldn't have guessed that one. Ah, hilarious.

The loudest guy in the room. Really? Hilarious. So good for team chemistry. Oh, it's great. I remember we didn't have him when we played Washington, when they wore the all black that game. He stayed back in Boston.

He was hurt. Locker room was so quiet. Next game, he was back. You could tell when he's in the room. Can you explain to people why Al Horford was a good signing? Because this is another test of, like, do you actually watch basketball or not? Or are you just, like, casual? Like we said earlier, I mean, the average fan is not going to know.

But he does things you're not going to – that's not in the stat sheet. His basketball IQ is so high. He's always in the right spots. He always makes the right play. He doesn't have to score to be effective. Like, last night, I think he had nine points. Yeah. Ten rebounds.

Took, like, six shots, yeah. Like I think how much money he signed for, people expect him to go get 30 points and 15 rebounds, and that's never been him. Right. Like he's been a guy that's been under the radar, and he just goes about his business the way he does. And he, I mean, we're having the season we're having,

and a lot has to do with him. He does everything us and a good chemistry guy too good chemistry he's not worried about usually guys that make that type of money they're like man i'm not getting my shots i'm not getting my he's he's not said one time i need the ball he's he's a he's a hell of a locker room guy he's a hell of a locker room guy. His character is great. He's everything you ask for in a really important piece to a franchise. It's a very unselfish team, which I think is by design. It is. I think they put a lot of thought into that. I think that's one of the reasons why nothing happened to the trade deadline,

which I was a little disappointed by. But at the same time not not talking about getting a big player but just like I mean I thought everyone else was getting somebody yeah I thought we would do something but that says a lot but I think they're really worried about oh yeah we like our chemistry we like these guys and we were afraid to mess with it they don't want to mess up I I definitely understand that we have good guys in that locker room that have no egos nobody's jealous of anybody and everybody just wants to win last question do you when do you think brad stevens becomes the president like 2040 i don't think he even wants to when does he graduate from coaching

and takes over the country one of these days how about like tomorrow you'd let him go to take over the country now right yeah yeah yeah right now You'd let him go to take over the country now, right? Oh, I would let him go to take over the country. Yeah, right now you'd let him go. He's bigger than basketball. He would definitely go take over the country and make some things happen without even smiling. See the best coach you ever had? Oh, you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. That's all right.

No, he's definitely, yeah. He's giving me the keys to do what I want. Great out-of-bounds plays. Oh, out-of-time out-of-plays. Really great. He was doing some out-of-time out-of-plays in the All-Star game where guys was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, he was breaking them out?

Yeah. That was free agent recruiting. Yeah, yeah. Guys was like, guys even in the locker room was like, man, he is special. I'm like, yeah, he knows his stuff. So I heard he gave a good speech, too, to those guys at the pregame or halftime or something. He did pregame. He gave a good speech.

He had our video guy, Matt, put together a really good video of highlights of all the players from like high school, college and the pros and LeBron right after LeBron's like, that's, I've been doing this all-star game 12, 13 years. And that was the best thing we've ever seen. And I even said it too. He's like, it was dope. It was, it was, it was, they had highlights of when every, every guy started with like John Wall high school highlights, then college, then NBA,

and everybody on the team. And everyone was so inspired, they went out and played no defense at all. No defense. No defense. Somebody almost broke a sweat. They were so inspired. Somebody.

God, we got to fix the All-Star game. We will. We will. Isaiah Thomas. This was fun. Thank you. I'm really enjoying the fun. Thank you. I'm really enjoying the season.

Thank you. It's really fun to have. Listen, there's been all kinds of Celtic teams. This one's really fun to watch. It's fun even from 3,000 miles away. It's been fun to, you know, the team always shows up. That's good. Even when you guys can't make a shot, you're still plugging away. I still feel like down 18.

What was that game the other night? That terrible Atlanta game. Atlanta gameanta game yeah just the team sucked and it was like eight to four minutes left you're down 18 i'm like i'm not turning it off yet just i'm not i'm not ready to give up yet it's crazy that's how we always feel no matter we could be down even at halftime coach will come in like we we've been down more than this right we're gonna win the game and like we always feel that way i think that's just the attitudes we have yeah all right Even at halftime, coaches come in like, we've been down more than this. We're going to win the game. We always feel that way. I think that's just the attitudes we have. All right, good luck with the rest of the season.

Thanks for having me. All right, that was Isaiah Thomas. We have Shea Serrano coming up to talk about John Wick 2. There will be some spoilers in there, so if you want to bail on the podcast right now, my feelings won't be hurt. But if you want to hear a good action hero conversation and you want to hear John Wick action hero conversation and you want to hear John way broke down a little bit with some, with some fun questions,

I would keep listening. Quick break to talk about the ringer NFL show. We sent the dudes to the combine. Lombardi was there. Danny Kelly, Robert Mays, Kevin Clark, free agency is coming up this week. The ringer NFL show is on fire right now with all the football talk you need. And also check out theringer.com this week because we're going to be unveiling Mike Lombardi's series on video of how he would fix every single NFL team. Oh yeah. It's going to be like name that tune. Remember name that tune where they were like, I can name that song in five notes. I can name that song in four notes. Well, if you're over 40, you remember Name That Tim because it was a popular show,

but they used to have that show. Lombardi's going to do that for every NFL team. He can fix the Patriots in five moves. He can fix the Browns in seven moves. So get ready for that. That's going to be on TheRinger.com. All right, right now, speaking of The Ringer, Shea Serrano. All right, as promised, the John Wick 2 conversation that you've been waiting for for your entire life. Making his first appearance, losing his virginity on the BS podcast, Shea Serrano. How are you, Shea?

What is up? I am fantastic. I don't know how you haven't been on the podcast before, but it's a massive error, and I apologize because... I look at it every week, and I see the name of the person you have on there, and I just say, man, fuck that guy. I'm better than that. Every time.

Every time I say it. Well, we're going to fix that. I'm happy I found him in. Well, first of all, I should mention that I listened to you on the Ringer NBA show with Chris Vernon on Friday, and you talked a big game about the Spurs and then about your favorite team, and then about 15 minutes in, you had a moment of

weakness, and you caved, and you basically just admitted that the Rockets were better, and that you hated the Marcus Aldridge, and it was an incredible podcast moment. I don't know if a lot of people even heard that, but you quit on your team. No, I did not quit on my team. I've been very on the record against thearcus since the

trade and also i think the rockets are better that don't mean i like them but i just think i'm reverse jinxing it it's like a super reverse jinx i'm trying to put it out in the universe all right i you know i appreciate reverse jinxes let's talk about john wick with five questions we're gonna hit question number one is it okay to take your kids to john wick too because i took my son last night he had not seen john wick one my son is nine years old i feel like he's pretty advanced from a movie watching thing to the point that now it's like it's too late it's too late to protect him he's seen too many horror movies he's watched too many things on youtube that we didn't realize he watched. And I was just like, I want my son to like action movies. I want him to

get in the Fast and Furious franchise. I want to watch The Fugitive with him. There's all these movies I want to bang out. I think he's ready. I'm throwing him into John Wick 2. A little like how the Celtics are playing Jalen Brown in Crunch Time now. Just giving him the start and see how he reacts. And it was the greatest two hours of his entire life. What did your kids think? You know, I made that same mistake. I took my...

We skipped school. This is how bad of a parent I am. I was supposed to drop the boys off at school. We pulled up and it was Friday. I said, you know what? You guys want to go see... They'd already seen the first one. I said, you want to go see part two? Yeah, daddy, let's go. We went.

Now, I've got the twins with me, boy A and boy B. Boy A is a much more emotional kid, so he was the only one I was worried about. Boy B, I knew he was going to be straight no matter what. Right. We go and we watch it, and I thought everything was fine, but this was when it came out. This was a couple weeks ago, and boy B hadn't said a single word. Boy A hasn't. He just won't talk anymore. He won't do his weeks ago. And boy B hadn't said a single word. Or boy A hasn't. Like he just won't talk anymore.

He won't do his homework because he didn't want to pick up a pencil. It was a disaster on that part. Boy B is straight. We went. Bill, listen. We went to a birthday party. This was like two years ago. And I've got the twins with me.

It's a laser tag birthday party. So they're separating like parents on one team, kids on the other team. So A and B are on the other side. And I tell them like, y'all stick together because it's big and it's dark in here and whatever, they're like eight at a time. And we go in there and I'm walking around with my gun,

like hunting these kids and my buzzer just starts buzzing. And I look and there's nobody there. I don't see anybody, not a single person. person and then b boy b comes crawling out of the shadows and all he says is got you daddy and i was like what the fuck like he just steel team six me and so he doesn't there's no brother around i said hey where's your where's your brother i said stick together and i'll never forget this he looked me right in my eyes and this is what he said he said I'm on my own now and then he just left he just crawled

back away he said I'm on my own now and then was gone and I thought hey later he's crying just holding his gun up in the air like at the beginning of fucking Saving Private Ryan like he doesn't know what to do and B is just picking off parents left and right he was fine

at John Wick 2. The other one is a disaster. No, the answer is no. Don't take your kids to see John Wick 2. Yeah, I think that was my reaction too. I'm all about the father-son bonding. I just feel like anything that is going to be like leaves my son going, Dad, that was great.

I love you. You're the best. You're my hero. That's my goal. So we left, and he was just like, that was great i love you you're the best you're my hero is my goal so we left and he was just like that was the greatest let's go home and watch john wick one and then he started trying to pull me into that arm bar somersault move that john wick does when he kept taking everybody's gun and he almost dislocated my elbow and there's a hundred people around and he's he's fake shooting at me and'm like, so we had to have the conversation.

Like you can't go into school tomorrow and pretend you're John wick, right? You're not going to do that. Right. He's like, no, no, I'm not going to do that. But I, I'm, I'm a little worried that, uh, I don't know. I'm a little worried. It might've been a bad idea. Yeah. A good way to figure out if it was a bad idea is at the end of it, if your kid is fake shooting at you. Then you know you made a mistake. That's true.

That's how you know. Here's the thing. There's so many terrible parents out there that I'm not going to be judged. I still feel like I'm in the upper percentile, even if my kid gets kicked out of school today because he puts somebody in an R bar and tries to take their pencil. The pencil scene, I don't think I've ever seen him. Oh, my God. Yeah yeah i don't think he was out of his mind i it just it's so good john wick too is even better than i was hoping it would be which is the highest possible praise yeah it was fantastic when that thing happened

i'm sitting next to b uh we were doing the thing like when you see somebody do a big dunk in a game where you're like shoving the other guy. Like that's what we're doing during the, during the, we were so, we were so fired up

during that scene. Oh man. I did. It was a great movie. You know, it's interesting. There's been a lot of sequels, right?

Especially with action movies. There's just been a shitload of them. That one, I think mastered the element of, all right, here's everything that worked in the first movie and every reason we like the first movie and we're blowing it out we're just going exactly much bigger budget much more ambitious better actors we're just going the whole way like

ian mcshane is in it the guy from deadwood i think who was the old guy in the first one it wasn't nearly as good of an actor as ian mcshane oh i don't even remember him because i only remember mcshane now right in my head it's mcshane in the first one that's just how that's how good that's how good he was yeah everything that they did was was better than the first time around which was really like how do you pull that off i don't know know. John Wick 2 caught you off guard, and it was good that way. And then, I mean, John Wick 1 did it. And then part two was, like, every single part.

Like, they just got a little weirder. They opened up that universe a little bit more. Yeah. Oh, man, it was great. Don't take it kid, though. Don't take it kid. Yeah, I would say the cutoff. Man, I feel like I'm going to be judged.

That's fine. Judge me. Judge me. It's going to be judged that's fine judge me judge me it's gonna be it's all good so all right here's question two has anyone ever had worse aim in an action movie than all the people that tried to kill john wick and john wick too the only one i can think of is rambo too where like the vietnamese people were within five feet of him shooting at him and just missing left and right. That's the only time I can remember worse saying by the villains. Yeah, I think that's probably the closest comparison.

I watch this TV show called Sons of Anarchy, and they get into very close-range gunfight, like in a warehouse. Every time they go in a warehouse, it's a gunfight, and they never shoot anybody else. It's really bad you know what i was thinking about when i'm watching john wick too so they do the thing where they just open it up and they say okay guess what all these homeless people are actually assassins everybody that you see is basically an assassin now but when that happened they sent like the flyer out and said

okay there's a contract with john wick and people are trying to kill him over and over. And it was just like a woman jogging or a large Asian man walking by. They just happened to be like they were really easy for him to kill. So maybe the like maybe the requirements to become an assassin aren't that high and even lower than that as a henchman. So you basically just need a gun. You have a gun. Cool. You're in our little league.

You know what I'm saying? Well, you also need to know some form of jiu-jitsu, it seems like. I guess so. You need to know a couple moves, and you need to be really fast with how you draw the gun. The other thing with John Wick in this movie, other than the terrible aim, is the bullets that he did take, he probably took, what, 11 in the vest over the course of the movie yeah in his in his suit in his suit yeah he had the the stuff sewn into the suit yeah right he took a bunch of shots

normally when this happens in a movie or a tv show the guy gets knocked out or the girl and they're just down for five minutes John Wick they're gasping Johnping. John Wick, it was like he was going up for an offensive rebound and was just getting kind of elbowed in the kidneys a little bit. He's fine. He's still getting the rebound. Nothing would sway him. And I don't know. I just want to know, did he figure out the best possible bulletproof vest to buy,

or is he just willing to take a bullet better than basically anyone we've ever seen i don't know i don't know the answer i'm guessing he's just able to take that bullet because it's that very thin material so there's gonna be you're gonna feel it like a paintball gun yeah like a paintball gun stings right if you hit me with a paintball gun like i need a break for four or five minutes i can't even imagine what those bullets felt like i don't know man he was he's a badass yeah i mean you know we knew he had a high threshold for pain because going way back to point break when he blows out his knee on the jump yeah he was still able still able to move a little bit so you know going back to that uh and then the replacements

he took some big hits so So from the standpoint of Keanu having a high pain tolerance, I was ready for it, but I can't remember that. By the way, just a quick side question. Were you okay with Common as an assassin

considering you wrote the rap book once? I was surprised at how good of an assassin he was. When it started, he's played an assassin in a bunch of movies. Yeah.

He was in Smoking Aces. He was in Wanted. He's done this role before, but he has never been that good. The hand-to-hand combat scene that he had when they're on the stairs and they just find like a thousand stairs to roll down, that's probably the best fight scene of any movie of the last ten years maybe. I can't think of a better one it was incredible did that he did such a such a good job was that the same fight scene that ended

up with them in the subway no that's the second one the first one they're going and then they bust through into the into the hotel and they have to stop fighting right and then they have a drink and they're just they're hating each other i love that so so much. The part when they're in the subway fighting and John Wick is on the first floor and Common is on the second and they're shooting at each other while they're walking with the silencers. Yeah.

Incredible. That was incredible. How did that happen? Whoever thought of that, they should get an Oscar. That movie should win Best Picture just for that scene. It's never been done before.

Literally never been done. It was great. The subway fight was also extraordinary. There's so many good scenes in this movie. I don't know whether I just love action movies, but I really left the theater in all seriousness, no irony, really feeling like it was

going to get an Oscar, Best Picture nomination. That's how good it was. It's one of the best action movies of all time. It's incredible. There's nothing wrong with it. There are no wrong things. Every single thing was cool. There's usually one piece in the movie where you go like,

I don't know. But with John Wick, the only time I felt like that was at the very, very, very end. He says, send them all. I'm going to kill them all. Like he says all two times in a row. And I thought that that was kind of like, why did they cut it that way? But that's just, that's a super tiny side. It was, it was, it's phenomenal. There's no getting around that John Wick 2 is a beautiful, great movie.

It's a, it's a, it's a creation of God. I, I, it's on the short list of most satisfied I've ever felt walking out of an action movie. The only other ones I can remember fast five was just, just, uh, an Epic achievement. And the, uh,

that was the movie when, when that, when that franchise turned to like a serious thing, like you had to start taking it. That's how I felt after part after, after seven. Yeah. After they do the emotional tug at the end of seven you're like almost here i felt the same way then walking out of john wick too fast five is the one in brazil it's got that whole crazy

chase scene at the end with with the safe and they're dragging the safe through the streets of brazil and it just it took the whole thing to another level. And I danced out of the theater. Another one, uh, the fugitive, which has really not dated badly at all. Other than the fact that there's no cell phones, it's a movie that pretty much could be released right now,

though. There would probably be a scene where Harrison Ford crashes his plane, but the, Oh, you didn't get that joke. That was a great Harrison Ford joke. I deserve a courtesy laugh. But the first, The Fugitive was fantastic.

48 Hours, I think, is way up there from Walking Out of the Theater. But it's not a long list. No. And John Wick 2 is on it, whatever the list is. So I'll have to think about it. It's hard to hit that. Does Creed count? No. Is that an action is on it, whatever the list is. So I'll have to think about it. All right, next. It's hard to hit that. Does Creed count? No.

Is that an action movie? Are we counting that? Okay. Creed's a sports movie. All right. All right, next question. Keanu. Keanu.

So I did the Action Hero Championship belt on Grantland in March of 2014, which was almost three years ago. And one of the reasons for it was that liam neeson just owned the belt from the two taken movies and then he did non-stop which i thought actually was was taken in a plane but is very enjoyable and very rewatchable on cable and then taken three was coming out when i wrote that piece so he probably even though taken three was a little unsatisfying keeps the belt through taken three john John Wick comes out October 2014. Keanu immediately just grabs the belt.

He just takes it. That's his belt when that movie comes out. No question. Liam also had the gray. He also had the gray. We can't leave that out. No, I think we can. No! I think we can actually leave the gray out. I really think we can.

Oh my goodness. I wish they had spent $10 million more on the wolf, on the special effects for the wolf. Would have been nice to have been threatened by the wolf. Just the fear of there's a noise out there that might be a wolf versus an actual wolf. I liked it, man. I liked it.

So last two and a half years, has anyone else touched the belt, or did Keanu just get to keep it until John Wick 2 came out? John Wick bought him a bunch of time. There was a lot of equity there for him. I think they're the only people you could maybe make an argument for. The Rock, he had Furious 7

in 2015. He had San Andreas in 2015. And then he had Central Intelligence, which was kind of an action movie, but mostly a comedy. Yeah. So there's an argument there. Chris Pratt, Magnificent Seven,

Jurassic World. No, he's out. He's out. He's out. What about Charlize and Mad Max? Does she get it for a year with that one? She's fighting dirt demons, sand demons with one arm. Like they're missing an arm.

She just had one arm. Yeah, Charlize was pretty good. What about Mel Gibson? Is it just like, fuck Mel Gibson forever? Yeah, fuck Mel Gibson forever. He's out. I'm with it. I'm with it. I think you talked me into The Rock.

I gotta find out when San Andreas came out. I really like San Andreas. 2015. 2015 it came out. It was really good. It was really, that's like a fun action movie to watch in the theater. It was great. I mean, he's not that great of an actor.

The scene when he gives the, when he's talking about his dead daughter, and there's just like nothing there. It's just like, you're looking at a box of cereal. like that part if it was will smith giving that monologue would have been incredible but i think all the rest of the part he fits all the requirements i looked at the article you mentioned you had what three rules for him yeah um can he kick everyone's ass the rock definitely could would you go see any movie the Rock is in? Absolutely. And he's got a body of work over that span. I think he might get it. I think that's fair.

I think 2015, even though Fast 7, he's not in a lot of scenes. They put him in the hospital, but he has enough to keep it going and helps out in the end. He's got the Statham fight. He's got the Statham fight. The Rock versus Statham. Right. All right. So if The Rock gets it through 2015

up through maybe gets it for a year and a half throw in a little wrestling little WWE action not a lot of action heroes could actually come into WWE

Keanu has it back and oh wait we have one more question so Keanu has it now and he's going to have it through John Wick 3 which we're going to get to

in a second this is important, though. Did the Bus Brothers see John Wick 2, which, spoiler alert, the plot is this guy hires John Wick to kill his sister so he could have his parliament seat. Little chicanery there. Did the Bus Brothers see this and say hey we should get rid of our sister maybe not murdering her like in john wick too but maybe we should try to oust her and get her seat the math adds up john wick too came out two and a half weeks ago and the bus brother staged their coup d'etat last week do you think they saw john wick too and got the idea

100 that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what they wanted. They walked out of the movie theater. They didn't say anything. They just looked at each other and then high five. And then they called the lawyers. They knew what was going down after that. I totally agree. I think they probably talked to Keanu Reeves thinking he was a real person

about some help with maybe and then he's Keanu's like I'm an actor you know John Wick's just a character they were at home googling like how to get a marker that's what they were we need a marker how do we get a marker that was what they were doing you're right you're right all right uh last question what's happening in John Wick 3 it seems like he's on the run. Everyone's an assassin. And he doesn't have the Continental this time. By the way, I would like to have the Continental in my life. I would like to have a safe place like that where I could just get protection, guns,

whatever money, gold chips, whatever I want. No, I can't get killed in the Continental. I think that's a bonus. I like the Continental. But what happens in John Wick 3? You know, you laid it out already. He's definitely on the run. He's going to kill them all.

He already told you what he's going to do. He's killing them all. I think what they're going to end up doing, though, because one of two things happen. He either has to take down the entire Assassin Federation and that's the end of the franchise, or I really think the franchise has legs forever,

like Assassin's Creed type situation. I think for that to happen, they're going to introduce a new thing. Like, there wasn't a marker in part one. They made that for two because they needed a new way to get him back in the game. So part three, they're going to figure out some sort of way where he doesn't have to kill everyone. There's going to be a new marker.

And then he goes, oh, I have this now. And everyone just goes, oh, okay, we're done trying to kill you. And then that's it. Those are the only two ways it plays out. I have a couple thoughts. I don't think his dog makes it out of John Wick 3. And in fact, I don't think his dog makes it out of the first 20 minutes. Yeah.

He loses something in each movie, right in fact, I don't think his dog makes it out of the first 20 minutes. Yeah. He loses something in each movie, right? So, I don't know. It's a little ominous. He's just why... I just hope no dogs are harmed during the making of John Wick 3.

Is my only point. And I think he... I think that pushes him to another level. John Wick has to have something taken from him to really become John Wick. So that's one.

That's probably true. Two, I thought about what you said. I had the same conversation with myself about how many John Wicks can they have. Could this be the next Fast and Furious? Because to me, Fast and Furious is a season ticket franchise for me. Right?

Where it's like, oh, Fast and Furious is out. Oh, season tickets for that. I'm in. I don't even care what the plot is. Oh, it's coming out on May 2nd? Great, I'm in. And I think John Wick is like that too, but the difference is, I don't know.

Like, Keanu's up there now in age. I think he's over 50. Yeah, he's born in 19- Is he really? 1964. So he's 52. I had no idea.

So, like, Liam Neeson can go into his 60s because he's like 6'3", and he has like the legendary, he's legendarily hung. Everybody knows that. He's got good balance from his enormous Johnson. Yeah, Liam Neeson. That's the word in the street. Pack and heat. How did we get to... Alright. It's the legend of Liam Neeson. Who's the word in the street. Pack and heat. How did we get to...

All right. It's the legend of Liam Neeson. Who knows if it's true, but I always figured that's why he had such good balance in Taken. But Keanu... Keanu, though... What is wrong with you? Keanu, though, I think once he gets into his mid-50s,

I don't know. I'm concerned. I don't know I'm concerned I don't know if I don't want like an old geriatric John Wick so maybe this is freeing out

wait hold on hold on hold on so Liam Neeson was good at karate because he had a big wiener like it just

great balance great balance that's why he why he could move. He could pivot so quickly. He was a very good central force. All right. I think I got to go. All right.

I think that's it. Shea Serato. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for coming on. What do you have coming up this week on The Rigger? I got a basketball column on Wednesday and then a non-basketball thing about, I went and watched Kong, which is really great.

Oh, good. Go see Kong. Yeah, you can take a kid to see that one. There's only one or two curse words in it. And go see it. And I'm going to write about that. Basketball and Kong. Your Wednesday column's called NB Shea. in it and uh we'll go see it and i'm gonna write about i'm gonna write about that so you're balling kong your wednesday comms called nb nb shay it also yeah i don't know who came up with that but oh let me tell you uh kong they don't show his wiener in there but he's really good

at fighting i don't i didn't want to see kong's wiener don't flip this on me it's my job to pass along urban legends on the podcast. Did you think about calling your podcast Shea BA, or did you settle on M.B. Shea? No, that was Sam. Sam came up with that. You can thank him for that one. I did not have any part of that.

Okay. All right. Well, we'll talk to you soon. Look forward to reading you on The Ringer. I'm sorry I had to break the news to you about Liam Neeson, but I feel like you'll be fine. And I'm glad I'll see you in our support group for parents who took their kids to John Wick too

and shouldn't have. All right, man. All right, see you. All right, thanks to SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor. Don't forget to download the free SeatGeek app or go to SeatGeek.com. Thanks to TheBlackTux.com. They'll help you create your look or

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