The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 185: Westbrook and the Wizards With Joe House and Hockey Star P.K. Subban

Episode Date: March 9, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Joe House to discuss the Wizards' impressive season so far (6:00), the Bradley Beal–Ray Allen comparison (11:00), the best free-agency acquisitions (23:00), Russell Westbrook's ball hogging ways (32:00), OKC's best-case scenario (39:00), and Westbrook chasing stats vs. wins (46:00). Then, NHL All-Star P.K. Subban joins to give his thoughts on the Bruins-Canadiens rivalry (57:00), his ability to be the NHL commissioner (1:05:00), hockey's concussion protocol (1:20:00), and Connor McDavid's skill set (1:25:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor since 1968. Find the best tickets for sporting events, music, wrestling, opera, you name it. For instance, March Madness coming up next week. House, I can't think of a smarter, easier way to get tickets to March Madness games than SeatGeek, can you? It's really fun to go to March Madness games, so you should get on SeatGeek and buy some tickets. You and I went to March Madness to hear the DMV and ordered $700 worth of food. We did.

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My son today, as I was leaving, he pretend shot me as I was leaving like John Wick and then he's like, John Wick. I was like,

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available now for subscribers on itunes and everywhere else you get your podcasts we should also mention shack house is back house what's the name of that podcast again it's the shack uh you took a hit with the podcast when you guys kept promising that Tiger Woods was coming back, and then he never did. And who knows? He might be hosting Shack House with you in about a month. How dare you? Golf is about to get really fun.

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other than I like the course. Finally, we were brought to you by TheRinger.com. That's where I put up a new column today about Russell Westbrook, which House and I are about to talk about. And a little bit later, we have P.K. Subban,

formerly of the Montreal Canadiens, and now of the Nashville Predators. But he came in last night. We had a good talk about hockey. That's going to follow

Joe House. Joe House coming up right now, but first, Proj. Joe House coming up right now, but first. All right, Joe House on the line. This is really, I think of this as Joe House time. When you go from March Madness, NBA starting to get fun, and then the Masters lingering. This is really the Joe House vortex that we have now entered. Don't forget, the NHL is exciting.

We're in a stretch run from the NHL. The Capitals are sitting right there, poised to do something extraordinary as opposed to the ordinary. Oh, God. Every year they suck you in. Just stop. I'm in. I would say you should be more excited about the Wizards. That Bogdanovich... I absolutely love the almost bullets. The Bogdanovich trade

was phenomenal. Boy Bog. I called him Bo Bog. It's not Bojan. It's Boyan. Boyan Bogdanovich. Boyan? My boy. Boy, Boy Bog. Boy Bol.

Well, I don't know what I want his nickname to be, but holy cow, can the guy make an open three-pointer? Yeah, I, we're going to talk about Westbrook, but just quickly, I wanted to say that I watch Jonas Jarebko seems like a nice guy. Jonas Jarebko. I always call him Jarebko, but it's Jarebko. like a nice guy. Jonas Jarebko. I always call him Jarebko, but it's Jarebko. Nice guy. He's a great teammate.

He's made a couple big shots for the Celtics. He's not remotely close to Bojan Bogdanovic. And watching the Warriors game last night, I just got bummed out because, you know, I was watching those Nets games. I think me and my dad were the only non-Nets fans watching Nets games because the Celtics had their pick. And he was good for them and could create his own shot and kind of had too big of a burden. And I always wondered what he would be like kind of in the spot he's on now

in the Wizards, which is basically he just gets open threes and occasionally he can dump on the ball and he can create a play. But I like your crunch time five. I always judge these playoff teams by just who are your five at the end of the game. And you watch the Wiz, Wall and Beal, both playing great, although Wall's been a little sketchy after the All-Star break, but Beal's been playing great. Otto Porter, great contract year by him.

Bogdanovic. And then Gortat. It's a nice five. It makes sense. They all fit together. You're having ideas, aren't you? Just be honest. You're having small ideas. Well, unlike you, I invested in the team this year. I invested in certain outcomes. I don't feel like it's appropriate to describe those outcomes, but I felt very bullish on the idea that they were going to win in the mid-40s this season, and that was a simple, you know, Katie Baker did an awesome write-up of my almost bullets. I think it went up yesterday.

Yeah, and the rare. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, the difference between Scotty Brooks and Whitface, chess checkers, cannot be overstated. The highlights of that story to me were his understated approach to dealing with the players, his recognizing. There's like the term of art, I believe, is emotional intelligence. His ability to understand where his players are at,

understand the disparate personalities and the things that drive the guys, and work all that together and be kind of the maestro sitting on top, that's something that, to his credit, if we're going to give Phil Jackson any credit whatsoever at this stage of his career, as a coach, I think Phil Jackson did that as good as anybody, recognizing the talents and letting the guys figure out how to have their place. And it's been a remarkable eye-opening experience here in the DMV with Scotty Brooks and that particular skill of his with this crew, letting these guys find their way.

The story I like the best out of Katie's tale was, you know, he sat down with Leonsis and Grunfeld at the 2-8 start of the season, and they had a conversation, and Scotty showed nothing but confidence. He said, well, I'm kind of figuring it out. We're going to figure out some rotations here. Kind of working it out. We work work at all out right now and i i i thought uh... or remarkable change of course the way from uh... many many many panic-driven

moves and moments here in the dnb across all of the the the various teams including the extra car ball washington professional football, which is in its usual off-season drama. We're not going to talk about it any further. I just wanted to recognize the distinction between where the almost bullets are right now at this

moment, and that's sad. Sorry, franchise. Anyway. From our buddy Sean Grandy, NBA's best record last 12 weeks. Last 12 weeks, that's almost a three-month sample size. San Antonio 29-8. Golden State 29-8.

Washington 29-10. Third best record. Celtics 28-12. And then after that, Utah, Houston, and Cleveland are all 25-14. 29-10. 39 games. That's pretty much half the season. That's a 60 win pace. And that's one of

many reasons why I do not think this Wizards thing is a fluke. I think they're legitimately good. I think that, first of all, Wall can get pretty much anywhere he wants. And I'm not sure you can compete at a high level anymore in the NBA unless, A, you have one of the seven superstars, and there are only seven, or, B, you have an elite point guard who can get to wherever he wants in the court and either score or set everyone else up. So they have that, one, with Waugh, but then, two, they have the shooters, which you need.

You need at least two guys who are just dead-eye perimeter shooters. They have that. I actually have three. But then Beal is the wild card to me because Beal's gotten better this year. We don't know if he can stay in the court. He might not be able to. He certainly hasn't been the most durable guy. He's been durable this season.

But when I watch him, he really reminds me of younger Ray Allen. Not Ray Allen that everybody remembers from the Celtics in Miami, like older stage Ray Allen, who's kind of more like a Reggie Miller type. I'm talking about like 2001 Milwaukee Bucks Ray Allen, who was the best player on a team that really should have made the finals. And, you know, got boned over by the refs and that Sixers thing but Ray Allen in that in that 2001 season was basically 26 a night um could shoot threes could get into the paint get those little 12-foot jump shots the thing that I love about Beal is how creative he is you know I know you're watching every week but it's not he's not just a three point shooter he's somebody that they'll give the ball and he has these little runners he has a little like turnaround flip shot and i i think he's really hard to guard and i look at like the celtics who match up really well with

certain teams like for whatever reason they match up well with golden state but those taller shooting guards that can shoot threes or get to the paint are the things that the Celtics can't really stop, and most teams can't stop that. Do you believe in Bradley Beal as a crunch time playoff guy? Oh, absolutely. It is the one thing about him that if you sit and look at the big contract that the almost Bullets rewarded him with this summer, the one thing, you know, on the page, if you're looking at stats and, you know, durability and all those kinds of things, he's been slightly underwhelming, you know, as a three-pick and

as a guy that you're going to pay a max contract. What changes the entire tenor of your thinking about him is what you have observed about Bradley Beal. What I have observed about Bradley Beal in that playoffs context, he was in two different series, arguably Washington's best player. No disrespect whatsoever to John Wall, but he showed a level of aggression and a real inclination to set aside any hesitation whatsoever.

Just go hard. Be a slasher. It's very funny that you mentioned that Ray Allen comp. I have a pal in my life that I have to shout out who has been sending me Ray Allen comp every year since beale um joined the nba he sends me like you know once a year here's ray allen at this point in his career here's here's bradley beale at this point of his career that's fine and uh so shout out to pete friedman for that comp but the thing that that you the the point you made which is a really nice compliment

to scotty brooks uh katie's story mentioned this They're putting the ball in Beal's hands as a point guard to let him see the floor, bringing the ball up, and see what kind of playmaking ability he may have. And we know that the folks around the league have taken note of his playmaking ability because he keeps getting invited to the national tryouts every year, and those experiences have been really good for him as well. You know, it reminds me of what Kentucky does

when they put the ball in Malik Mock's hands. Oh, wait, they don't do that at all. They just have DeAndre Fox dribble for 40 seconds. Kyle Perry, just quick tangent, Kyle Perry's a terrible basketball coach. He's a great recruiter. He's good at assembling everybody. He should be coaching like

sixth grade youth basketball i can't believe they don't run uh high screens with malik mock and bam i would run that play every single game but anyway that's the story of another time you just you just did this because i am immediately hanging up after this podcast and i'm buying whatever odds are available on kentucky the national title. Okay, good. Thank you for that. That was awesome. If they figure out that Malik Monk should just have the ball and that DeAndre Fox should either be in the corner where he can't shoot or on the bench, that team has a higher upside.

So here's Ray Allen. 2001 playoffs. Played 18 games for the Bucs. 25 points a game. Six assists, four rebounds, 48% from the field, 48% from three, took 6.6 threes a game. So very kind of similar to what seasons look like now and shot 92% from free throw line. Bradley Beal, starting 2017 only, starting with the first game in 2017,

so we're looking at about a 10-week sample size, 24 points a game. He's taking 7.43s a game. He's making 42%. Shooting 51% from the field, 83% from the line line doesn't have the same rebounds and assists that Allen did, but it's very Ray Allen. And Ray Allen is a guy that, you know, didn't think we'd see a lot of variations from he,

I'm not saying he was a unicorn, but he was definitely a unique type of guy that we haven't seen, uh, prototypes of, but I think Beal has a really good chance to be Ray Allen, not 2.0, but kind of Ray Allen for this generation. Yeah, and the distinction between that Ray Allen line for 2001 and Beal right now, the 2017 season, is age. Beal is, I think, 23 now.

I don't know how old Ray Allen was in 2001, but I bet it was older than Beal is, I think, 23 now. I don't know how old Ray Allen was in 2001, but I bet it was older than Beal is right now at this moment. Beal... Oh man, why can't I figure out how old Beal is? He's 23. Yeah, Beal is... He turned 24 in June.

Yes. Beal was... June 93 was his birthday, so he turns 24 in June. Ray Allen... Yeah, 23 right Allen, at that 2001 Bucks, that playoff thing, he was 25. Yeah, precisely my point. Give me two more years of Bradley Beal. But I got to hand it to Teddy because I don't know if I would have given Bradley Beal $133 million. I got to say, I thought it was a mistake last summer.

I know they were handcuffed with the cap and you can't lose an asset, but to give that amount of money to somebody who had not proven that he could stay on the court is just a huge gamble. And you knew it was like maybe a 60% chance he could stay on the court, but there's that 40% chance that he can't. And it reminded me a little bit of when the Warriors were negotiating with Steph Curry when he ended up signing that four-year $44 million, I think it was. And it seemed both risky and like a great value because if it paid off,

it was an unbelievable contract. But if it didn't pay off, they were stuck with this guy who had bad ankles. So I don't want to say a single thing about Bradley Beal's health or how he's shown up this season or through the balance of the season into the playoffs, what that durability looks like. But I think the reason you have to make that investment in Beal is because of what we talked about a couple minutes ago, which is that playoff performance.

You see a guy like that who can take over for stretches in the playoffs when everything is on the line. And that's just not a replaceable talent, a replaceable asset. Yeah, so in the playoffs, basically he did what he's doing now in the playoffs, too. It's 23.4 a game uh he shot 37 from three so not as good but threes are always a little bit harder in the playoffs 45.5 rebounds i mean it's it's it's it's a less efficient version of what he's doing now but the seeds were definitely planted i also like that you that he seems to play better against better teams. He kind of rises to the occasion.

He's a good home player. And that's the one thing I've noticed with the Wizards games now. The environment wasn't great for a while, and now it really is starting to feel like an environment. Like Beal definitely steps up. Wall's carrying himself around with a lot of swagger. Guys are making threes, crowds into it. It's starting to feel a little bit like an event.

You've been to a couple of these games. Is the mojo different in there? It's a rising tide. Washington, particularly as it relates to basketball, the experience has been so relentlessly middle of the road over the years that it really takes a winner, a sustained winner, to get folks excited about professional basketball. Over the last 20, 25 games, the crowds, well, 20 to 25 home games

represents quite a bit of the season. But over this stretch that they've been hot, the home games have a discernible and palpable juice to them. They were a near sellout or a sellout for the Utah home game before they left for this West Coast road trip that they're on. And the crowd damn near propelled them. They were down that whole game. Utah was giving it to them. Washington didn't really have any answer for Gobert and Hayward.

But the crowd damn near propelled them to tying the game up, and then Hayward hit a couple threes, and that was it. So it's definitely headed in the right direction. And the playoffs are always good. D.C. always shows up proper for the playoffs. So I'm excited for the home crowd vibe when the playoffs arrive. You guys are 39-24, by the way. Congratulations.

It's on pace to be the best Wizards season ever. I'm taking it day by day, game by game, until we get to about, you know, until we get to 45, then I'll feel good. One thing on Scotty Brooks, because I forgot to mention this when you were talking about him. You know, I wasn't a fan of his at OKC. I did not think he did that good of a job. There was a lot of stuff I just didn't understand with him, like why he kept playing Perkins,

why he would take Westbrook and Durant out at the same time, like little stuff that just wasn't really explainable. And also, like, just how predictable their offense was, all the one-on-one stuff. And now you watch the way Westbrook's playing this year, and we're going to talk about Westbrook in a second, and it makes me think maybe he was just handcuffed with Westbrook. Maybe it's just impossible to have any sort of an offense

with Westbrook's involved that's going to have movement because he just doesn't play like that. That's one note. And then the second note is I do think there's something to be said for um somebody in their second chance of doing anything you know like even we felt that way doing the ringer versus Grantland like we you know doing Grantland not having to ever been a boss before figuring out things on the fly you're not going to make every decision correctly and using that experience for the ringer it's just it was just easier to make certain decisions like oh yeah well we tried that this or oh we should you know we did something like that there and it didn't work and i wonder like you know should teams be honing in more on somebody

who has had a good run on a team and then it didn't work out and he left it's almost like the belichick model where you know you're getting somebody with the experience of having failed and learning from that failure is really valuable and i think you're seeing it with scott brooks another one of the anecdotes i really enjoyed out of the katie bake story was how scott used some of that downtime in between coaching gigs. He went on the same kind of barnstorming tour, Tibbs barnstorming tour, going around to various professional teams, observing their practices, talking to the front offices. Tibbs' tour got press. Scotty Brooks didn't get any press for this, so it was a cool anecdote to see in Katie's story.

He did the same thing. He went around. He took in. He learned from the experience at OKC, but learning doesn't stop because you're in between jobs. He used the opportunity there to go around, learn, observe, and God bless the NBA fraternity for letting everybody sort of learn from each other. It really has, I think, elevated the overall product. I mean, I've greatly enjoyed this season, and we're going to get to Russie here in a half minute.

But, you know, the level of play of all of the guys across the board, the brand of basketball that we're observing is very enjoyable. And I think some of it has to do with all these guys learning from each other and taking stuff in. And Kevin O'Connor wrote about do with all these guys learning from each other and taking stuff in. And Kevin O'Connor wrote about this on The Ringer yesterday, and I wholeheartedly agree. It was a very productive trade deadline. There were a lot of teams that were one piece away

or teams that just didn't totally make sense or teams that seemed like a tiny bit broken. And just on down the line, made trades that that really filled some hole they had or completed something that they were missing or or just made them better like you saw it with the wizards you have the okc at the taj gibson really helps them i don't think okc is gonna do any damage in the playoffs but taj is somebody that's just an asset and they and they got him for you know somebody that wasn't even playing for them you look at Tucker and Abaka on Toronto they've been really good um in view of Lowry being out too yeah uh and it's it's just elevated their ceiling

defensively I I love Tucker that was somebody even though he didn't totally make sense for the Celtics I was really hoping they would get him just i think he's like just a tough gamer that can play in big situations lou williams on houston has been as great of a fit as i think we all expected and there was one more that i really liked what other tate what other team oh uh i thought darren will Darren Williams was washed up, but watching him on Cleveland, I think there's a chance that he might actually help them. He might be able to tap.

Maybe it's like a Jason Kidd and Dallas thing where it seemed like Jason Kidd was done and then on sheer know-how and experience, he might be able to. I remember the other trade I love. That New Orleans Noel thing is a game changer for Dallas. I mean, we know we knew it was going to happen. We knew we saw the seeds in Philly of this guy who was this rim protector screen and

roll dude who put him on a smart team who knows exactly how to use them with point guards to know what they're doing. And he was going to take off. I think that guy's going to be a monster for Dallas. I really liked that trade. And I'm mad at Philly to be a monster for Dallas. I really like that trade, and I'm mad at Philly that they just gave him away. It's just hard to believe that that was the best trade they could have made for him. It feels indefensible, and it feels like it's going to be indefensible

for a while, but I think we've learned over time that you have to be a little bit patient with some of these deals, because sometimes the assets take a while to blossom. I'll never forgive Chris Wallace for altering the course of the NBA and giving LA two titles by giving away Pau Gasol in exchange for Marc Gasol. But look at how Memphis has fared with Marc Gasol as an anchor center there for a full decade now. That one bugs me, because basically he was the fat Gasol brother who was a throw-in. I mean, they can spin it every way they want, but he was completely out of shape. And nobody really thought he was going to be a significant guy.

And I don't know. I would say that was a 25% chance he was going to even turn into a starting center, much less what he became. That trade, to me, is still indefensible. On the 10-year anniversary, I'm going to get some of my dog poop and mail it to Chris Wallace because I still blame him for costing me a title. The Nerland thing though, you know,

oh, the other one, Nurkic, we forgot to talk about him. It's another guy who's just in a bad situation. He playing they they clearly need to revolve the team around Jokic so why not and Nurkic can't play with Jokic so then it looks like he's this asset that's not that good I didn't think he was good when Portland got him I was like oh that guy's a stiff and then you watch him in Portland he's unleashed and he's, that guy's a stiff. And then you watch him in Portland. He's unleashed. And he's a real legitimate asset and somebody that I think kind of changes what their team is, makes them a little more interesting. The eight spot is going to be really fun.

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And speaking of movements, Russell Westbrook wrote a column today. It's on TheRinger.com. I spent a lot of time on it. I went into a historical stats rabbit hole at one point, trying to go into the usage rates, assist percentages, all this stuff, trying to answer two questions. One, is Russell Westbrook the biggest ball hog of all time? And I use that word semi-affectionately

because ball hog just means you have the ball all the time. And then two, would you want to play with Russell Westbrook? Would you want to be his teammate? And then a bonus third question, with the way that the NBA has evolved and how guard dominant and perimeter dominant it is now, history says that ball dominant guards have a ceiling and that you cannot contend for a title with them if the guard has the ball too much. Are we entering a world where that might change? Could you build a team that wins the championship around Russell Westbrook hogging the ball? So we'll start with the first question first.

Joe House, would you want to be on Russell Westbrook's team? I'm still reeling. I read your column this morning, and I have to tell you one thing more than anything else jumped out at me, and I'm not sure. It's lunchtime here in the DMV, and I am hungry, but here comes some corn! Here comes some corn! Oh, my God! That was a... I mean, that's for the whole rest of the season. On Twitter, every time Russell Westbrook does anything, here comes some corn.

As a... We should mention... Sit here and try and... Wait, hold on. People haven't mentioned or read the piece yet. I was talking about how he does everything for his teammates. You know, I charted this game that he played against Portland this week where in the second half, in the possessions that he was involved with,

he directly determined 39 of the 44 possessions. Either he shot or passed to the guy who shot. He always had the ball. He was always determining. I was saying it was like that SNL sketch when the parents chew their food for their kids and then spit the food into their mouth. And I did the here comes the corn joke.

So you'd never seen that? You'd never seen that? Oh, I'd seen it. The funniest thing about the clip that you posted there is the dude, the fan, the cackling. I know. Because you couldn't get a clip that was like, you know, whatever kind of native digital. You had to get one where it was like a guy who filmed it on his own TV and laughing like a maniac in the background.

I love that guy. Would you want to be on Russell Westbrook's team? Yes. Oh, because you're old? Yes. So what time of life? I mean, the answer is yes, however you want to slice it and dice it. If I'm a professional basketball player, if I'm a dude showing up at the playground,

if I'm trying out for a college team, whatever the iteration and the scenario is, I definitely want to play with Russell Westbrook. So it's funny because, and I think he's the most relatable pickup basketball player to people that, if you've ever played pickup basketball, you've played with somebody like him. The point guard who has the ball all the time, who shoots all the time, who's super intense, who throws the ball to you only because either there's he's in a situation where he can't score he's tired for one play and he's just like

all right here you take it and then you're you're uh expected to do something even though you haven't touched the ball in 10 minutes um we've all played with somebody like that but the catch is he's usually the best guy on the court and you really have this moral dilemma do i play with this guy and i get to stay in the court and keep winning for two and a half to three hours or do i try to go to somebody else and pick four other guys and run with them and try to beat this guy and try to stay in the court knowing that i'm gonna have to play this guy maybe every three times every three one out every three games he's gonna show back up we have to beat this guy and try to stay in the court, knowing that I'm going to have to play this guy maybe one out of every three games, he's going to show back up and we have to beat him again.

And you really have to weigh it. And as we both know, when you get older, you just want to stay in the court. And I would be totally fine being like Kyle Singler for Westbrook. Now I'm retired, but when I was wrapping up a couple years ago, I'd be like, all right, Russ, you do everything. I'm going to stand over here. You throw it to me. I'll make a shot every

once in a while. You do everything. When I was 18, I don't know if I would have enjoyed it. And I really don't think his teammates, I just don't think it can be that fun for him, for them. Well, so that's interesting. I thought about 18-year-old me as well, and what I concluded was I like to win. I like winning, whether it's, you know, in pickup games where we're going to have six or seven consecutive Ws, we're going to just be on the court for two hours, or if it's in an intramural game, or if it's in my county, you know, Montgomery County, Maryland I'm playing,

I like to play with good guys. And what the challenge would have been for me as an 18-year-old would have been, what's the best me for helping our team win when we have a guy like this who is unstoppable on many fronts? What's my contribution going to be? And I like the challenge of that, as the 18-year-old me would have liked that challenge. Now, the 18-year-old me would have also wanted to shoot every single time that I touched the ball. That would have been a problem for us.

I knew if I was only going to touch the ball six times and I was going to shoot it all six times, I think I could make peace with it and think about how else I'm going to make a contribution to the team because I still like winning more than anything else. I think you would have quickly done like a Steven Adams impersonation, but you had the little 18 footer and you'd be like, Russ, I'll set you picks. And if they, if both guys go with you, I'm right here to shoot an 18 footer. Just, you know, whatever, no offense. If you don't pass to me, that's great.

But I'm right here and I'll make the 18 footer. Uh, I think for somebody like college version of me who is a point guard i would end up like cameron payne just a broken shell of myself getting traded getting traded off in three months like there's just certain people that can't play with him you know like anybody who needs the ball in any capacity can't play with him. Deion Waiters is somebody that, you know, he's been great in Miami. And I got to say, like for Zach Lowe and I, you know, keeping our property in Waiters Island, even after everyone was foreclosing all around us,

and we just kept our beachfront just hoping for a miracle. And now it's happened. And it's just, it's margar and and nachos every day on waiter's island it's unbelievable but that's somebody that just shouldn't have played with russell westbrook and i think so the thing for me i compared it to the in-and-out burger menu the playbook they have which is basically all they do another thing i loved oh thank you well you because you love food of course you love that yeah all they're doing is serving Westbrook burgers. That's it.

That's what's on the menu. Here's Westbrook. So could you build the right team around him and have him shoot 26 to 30 times a game and get to the free throw line 8 to 12 times a game? And then also the other times that he's not shooting, he's sending people up either for an assist or a wide open miss. Could you build the right team around that with how hard he plays and how durable he is?

I think you actually could build a contender in this day and age. I don't know if you could have done it 15 years ago. I think the closest model we have is the 2001 Sixers, which was basically Iverson and then a bunch of rebounders and shot blockers and defenders and really no second option. But that team was really inefficient offensively. I think with OKC they could do a little bit of a better job. But you look at what Houston did with Harden.

They have Beverly, who's a point guard who doesn't need the ball but can guard the other team's point guard. That makes sense. They have Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson, who anybody could have had over the summer, who both were really underachieved in New Orleans. It's not like these guys were great assets. Put them with Harden, give them wide open shots,

take a little responsibility off them, they take off. Clint Capella, he's basically their version of New Orleans Noelel he's probably better uh rim protector high screen roller lou williams comes off the bench he can run the offense when harden isn't in the game he can shoot threes it's a it's a roster that makes sense the difference is harden's not as ball dominant as westbrook is and he's to me he's about as far as i would take it and you look at his usage rate is this percentage that's about as far as I would take it. And you look at his usage rate, his assist percentage,

that's about as much as you'd want one person to have the ball. He's also, weirdly, you know, he's just a better passer than Westbrook is. I've been stunned by how creative he is offensively, how good his passing is, the vision that he has, the things he sees, his ability to notice that somebody got went two feet off eric gordon for one second all of a sudden eric gordon has the ball for three he's playing at a higher visionary level than westbrook and westbrook you know makes up for it with the fact that he's one of the greatest athletes in the history of the sport and just

over and over and over and over again imposes his will like really only four or five people we've ever seen right wouldn't you put him on the short list oh oh my gosh it's interesting that comparison between harden and and westbrook um in this season in the context of those two teams and what those two teams are, the situations they found themselves in as a season approach, because that I think really colors the proper way of assessing the output. We have two nearly unprecedented seasons coming from guys that we'll call point guards, even though Harden, I don't think anybody fits anybody's definition of a conventional point, but we're kind of past that now. But Oklahoma City was in a subtraction-by-subtraction moment, right?

They lost an all-time, they lost a whole, I mean, you know, we know what they lost. They lost Kevin Durant. So what are they going to do this season? What's their best-case scenario? How many games are they going to win with the cast of characters that they've assembled? They recognize they're in a transition moment, and the best way for them to be competitive this season, and also it happens to fit my observation of the psychological profile of Westbrook at exactly that moment in Juncture, give the keys to Russie and let him go.

Not only is that the best move for the franchise at that moment when they're going through a transition, but it's also the best move for all of us basketball fans. We get to see the unfettered Westbrook for an entire season, and this MF might very well get us a triple-double! I mean, what are we talking about, brother? I know, but... On the other hand, you know, Harden... Yeah. Yeah, that's an

addition by subtraction. They got rid of the giant stinky butt. They brought in a coach and two crucial pieces in the form of Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson, guys that can just shoot the lights out. And immediately those guys all came together. They have a little bit better health this season than last season.

And that's a right fit at the right time for a team with real title aspirations. Yeah, so I guess the difference is Harden, I think this is indisputable. I think Harden is making six to seven guys on that Rockets team better. And you could say, oh, it's partly the offense, it's the way they play, or they're in the right spots. That's all true. But just fundamentally, Harden makes them better. And if you put Westbrook on those teams, I'm not sure he would have the same impact on his teammates I'm not sure Westbrook makes anyone in OKC better and I also don't think

the team's really designed that way but you think about it like they lose Durant they lose 28 points a game and nine rebounds a game or whatever he was doing maybe 29 and nine something like that so you got to make up 29 points Oladipo comes in. He gives them 16, 17 a night. There's another 12 that can be had. Westbrook grabs some of it. But I still feel like the one that disappoints me the most is Stephen Adams because he's just been kind of pigeonholed now as this guy who just rebounds and protects the rim and sets screens for Russ basically,

and I just think he's better than that. I really came out of the playoffs last year feeling like he had a chance to become the best young center in the league and that the high screens with him and Russ, especially when he was rolling the basket, were devastating. I wanted to see if he would grow as a low post player a little bit this year. We haven't seen any of it. His stats are much different than they were in the playoffs,

but that was the guy I was kind of looking at as kind of a monster. He's going to take a leap, and it just hasn't happened. That slight regression, and that's the way it feels to me, I would say is attributable to two things. One, the role of Durant in creating opportunities for Adams to really free will both on offense and defense. But also it's the price that you pay. It's a heads-up decision you make when you say,

Russell, here are the keys. He is not looking to set up Adams. I mean, their best play is a pick-and-roll where Adams gets to the rim and Russell throws him, you know, that favorite Dallas play of, you know, the point guard setting up on the roll. But, you know, it's just not a thing that the two of them, you know, there's a little chemistry there but it's not it just isn't a go-to

play for the two of them it doesn't seem when you watch them but the bottom line is there's a ceiling on the way this team is constructed which is why I wrote that column like yeah they're going to win 45 games that's about the ceiling when you have somebody who hogs the ball to this degree

if he scaled it back 20% they're going to win 45 games. That's about the ceiling when you have somebody who hogs the ball to this degree. If he scaled it back 20% and he tried to get, you know, now that Kanter's back, you really try to get Kanter involved. You run some plays with Doug McDermott running around screen so he can kind of get in a rhythm. You have Oladipo, instead of just the two plays a quarter when Westbrook throws it to him, and Oladipo knows he has three seconds basically to quarter when Westbrook throws it to him and Oladipo knows he has three seconds basically to shoot this is one chance to get a shot I think the most

predictable play in sports right now is anytime Oladipo gets the ball with Westbrook clearly backing off so he can have a play for himself the defense knows Oladipo is going to shoot it's like his one chance for five minutes I think there's a way for Westbrook to scale it back and make those guys better, but he's just not interested. He clearly is chasing numbers, and I'm not against it. I think he's trying to make history. I think he went into the season saying, I'm getting giant numbers.

That's what I care about. The team's going to win because I'm going to do this. Now, he's probably wrong about the team winning, but he's right about the numbers. And we've never seen anybody in our lifetime chase numbers like this. Well, I would say it the other way around. I don't ever get the feeling that he's chasing numbers. He's doing what he's been asked to do inside the time that he's given.

One of the most astounding things in the array of stats that you laid out is his usage rate combined with the amount of time that he's on the court. I mean, it's unprecedented. You documented this. But if he's going to play all of those minutes, he's going to get those numbers because they have told him, go do your best to help this team win games and they're on a pace to win 45 games so that's you know they're playing where mission they're playing worse though they're i think they're playing a little bit worse because

teams are starting to figure out just how simple it is to stop them now it's also not simple to stop them which is i i laid this out in the column too. Like in the past when we've had ball hogs, it's been pretty, it's either playground style or it's like, you know, Kobe had the triangle in 06 where there was a little movement. This is a more sophisticated ball hog offense. Like everything is basically designed

for him to be going downhill and for him to be moving forward with a head of steam. And it's just like he has the ball. Either he gets the points in transition where he's it's him and LeBron are the two most devastating in transition guys we've had in the last 25 years. But when it's half court, it's pick after pick and these little maze and guys coming left and right. And everything is designed for Westbrook to either get to the rim or get an open space to shoot. And the only reason that works is when you have a guy who doesn't get tired, which is another thing that's going on here. He doesn't get tired.

Him and LeBron are the only two guys we've ever seen who just don't get tired. Not just not get tired, but this is part of what I was saying before. As NBA fans, I really applaud OKC for going in this direction. He shows up every single night. He's not taking games off. He's not resting. And the same is true. I really regret what Cleveland has done with LeBron this season because I want the healthiest LeBron I can have possible for the playoff run because that's when things are going to get so interesting and compelling.

So I don't think Cleveland's done the right thing with all of LeBron's minutes. I wouldn't change one thing about Russell Westbrook's minutes this season. He's singularly delivered a regular season performance that makes every OKC game something you want to check in on. You may not sit and watch the entirety, but the 58 against Portland, that's interesting, right? I mean, he's taken every shot or has a hand in every assist in the entire second half. That's kind of out of the ordinary.

That's kind of extraordinary. The one thing I'll say to you about kind of trying to give a summation of the Westbrook season. I think it's best to cast it as a regular season only thing, because I think we've observed over the last handful of years, teams reinvent when it comes to the playoff time, and OKC now has a cast of characters that could be really interesting come playoff time. I'm interested in seeing what Billy Dee has up his sleeve as he lets guys like Taj and Dougie McBuckets figure out their roles with this team, and by extension, let Russell figure

out what he has in terms of these new assets, and everybody getting back healthy on OKC, and then it gets to be playoff time. Why can't Russell tap the brakes that 20% that you're talking about? And let's see the new Russell for the playoffs and see what OKC is capable of. Can I tell you what he has up his sleeve? You have an opinion on this? I do.

The exact same style he's playing right now. I would argue that he's going to go the other way and ramp it up even more. I think he shoots 30 times a game in the playoffs. I think he plays, instead of 34 minutes, he plays 40. And it's just more of the same. I think he's possessed. I think he's on a mission. I think he's been on a mission since day one.

And I also think that this might be who he was the whole time. Because this is basically what he did in 2015 when Durant got hurt. It's not any different, you know, and I think he's just always going to feel like the team is going to succeed if I have the ball. The franchise was in the exact same position. They didn't anticipate Durant not being there, and their very best plan of attack for trying to be successful was to give the keys to Russell.

Now, they had a lot more time and were a lot more deliberate about it this season, but they were still blindsided by Durant leaving. And I think over the course of the regular season, with the assets that OKC has and the new additions at the trade deadline, I think there's a possibility. I know what you're saying. I wouldn't be shocked to see him shoot 30 times in the playoffs, but I also wouldn't be surprised

to see one of these role guys touch the ball a little bit and build something, because that's where OKC is at the moment. They're in a building mode. They're not going to win the title. I think they self-recognize that, and so the thing to do is let all of us enjoy this incredible Russell Westbrook ride.

He's not going to win the MVP, but it's going to be an incredible ride. And then let's see what they do in the playoffs, and then they have something great to build on come this offseason. So, we have to go, because Tate has to watch the second half of the UNC game. But,

um, the only thing I'll say about Westbrook and just this season, and then we have to go, is the NBA works best when all the different franchises are like gangs that have an identity. Like in The Warriors, one of my favorite movies ever, the different gangs in The Warriors. Like, oh, there's the roller skating gang oh there's the baseball gang and and i think this season is working for us because the different teams have their own little identities right westbrook's the one-man show team golden state's the you know two-time finalist and their ceiling's the highest

anyone cleveland's the lebron team washington's the up and coming biel and wall team the celtics are like the small go up isaiah thomas team you go on down the line there's about 12 really fun teams to watch that all feel a little different from one another houston uh utah even minnesota who's been coming on lately and they're becoming interesting and i think for me that's why this season's worked the best, the complement of the identities. Does that make sense? It does make a ton of sense. Speaking of compliments, I would like to, I know your compliment was a different one.

I know we're going to go, so this is why I want to get in. I want to complement the Twitter universe, what the Twitters be saying in response to our fast food pod last week. Oh, yeah. We got a ton of incredible feedback with a lot of suggestions. I feel like we have two road trips we have to make. We have a road trip where we got to get Whataburger and Raising Cane's in as part of the itinerary. Apparently, you can knock those two out down in Austin, Texas, which is kind of, you know, that's dead sexy.

I mean, not only would we do that fast food, but we could also get ourselves to Franklin's. I mean, we could do all the outstanding eatings that Austin represents and also conquer two of the greats, according to the Twitterverse. But we also got to get to the Midwest. The love for Culver's has been so resounding and astounding. And I also want to try this place Portillo. Do you know Portillo? I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right.

Maybe it's Italian. Maybe it's Portillo. But Portillo is getting all this crazy love. Those are the two that are showing up in my Twitter feed. So those would be two. We could go to like a Green Bay football game and knock out Culver's and Portillo. And we can get down to Austin. Maybe if the Spurs end up in the

finals again. Never say never. I have a hot take on that. We're hanging with our boy Goldsberry, right? I have a hot take on the Spurs. Should I save it for next week? Yeah, save it. Tease it.

Nah, I'll save it for next week. I just don't think we're going to see them in the finals. But I'm going to save that take for next week. It's on Channel 33. If you want to hear House and I break down the top 50 fast food debacle that was the ringer list that the millennials just took care of. By the way, Saturday I went to In-N-Out Burger for lunch with my daughter after her soccer game and then Chick-fil-A for dinner.

Oh! And had to go on a cleanse this week. Everyone in the staff's mad. I actually had to go on a juice and side cleanse. It's a big double. That's not a cleanse. No, it's like, I actually felt like I was going to die all day Sunday.

My body was like, you're too old. You can't do that. You can't do two of those. It would have felt like a religious experience. I will say the chicken nuggets at Chick-fil-A combined with the waffle fries, combined with the vanilla shake.

That to me is the heart in Westbrook Durant in 2012 of fast food threesomes. Of just so much potential. So much greatness, a lot of what ifs because the, what if for, for 2012,

okay, see is what if those three guys had stayed together and the, what if for Chick-fil-A is what if I just ate these three things every day, what would happen to my body and my life? Delicious. I would put those three against anything. Well, you know basketball is a five man team. And I told my order last week,

you put a Chick-fil-A sandwich with those three things, and you put an order of the strips, and now you're talking. That's your five-man team. That's a Joe House five-man team right there. The Joe House starting five. Chick-fil-A, they should be sponsoring Shack House, and the Joe House starting five should be on the menu. And it would only be ordered by people over 300 pounds.

Joe House. I need them and Shake Shack. I mean, I can't have Shack House and not have Shake Shack involved. That's true. Joe House, thanks. Talk to you later. Always. All right, we're going to talk to P.K. Subban next.

But first, the month of March has been a celebration of podcasts. Some people still don't get podcasts. What's out there, how to listen. You can help change that with one click right now. Think of someone you care about. What podcasts would they actually love? Got it. Do it.

Hit the share button on the bottom left of your screen. If they don't know how to listen, offer to show them how. Tell us what you shared with the hashtag tripod, T-R-Y-P-O-D. Thanks for spreading the word. And we're really happy about the Ringer Podcast Network, the Ringer NFL Show, Ringer NBA Show, The Watch, The Masked Man Show, Achievement Oriented, Shack House.

What else do we have? There's a couple others, some good ones. They're all over the place in the Ringer Podcast Network, but we love podcasts. They're a big part of everything we're trying to create here at The Ringer. And check it out, Tripod. All rightk suban all right every once in a while we like to have uh unexpected people pass through our studio this wednesday night pk suban's here must be a bonus when they're good looking as well yeah that i wasn't expecting that i knew you i knew you were gonna be a good guest i didn't expect how handsome you were going to be.

It's really incredible. You're playing the Kings. By the time people hear this, you'll be playing the Kings that night. But you're in LA. Last week, you were in Montreal. And it was the first time back. Yep. And they made you cry.

But in a good way. They did. Not only did they make me cry, they made me cry in front of millions of people. Yeah. And thousands of people alive. So that's never happened before in my life what were you expecting when you went back oh man i told myself i wouldn't cry yeah i wasn't sure i knew it would be emotional i wasn't sure what type of emotions i was going to get um as much as i told myself i wasn't going to cry, I knew deep down there was a really good chance

that I probably might. Having Madame Bellevue there and my family there. I know the way that the fans have always reacted to me and I didn't really expect anything less. But I didn't want to say anything because you just never know. And it was more than I could have imagined. The support was overwhelming, clearly, as you can see, the way I reacted.

But it was one of the best experiences in my hockey career so far, for sure. Well, you did your job because you activated my Boston, Montreal DNA. I heard that. And I really despised you almost immediately. You must be happy now. That must be the main reason of why I'm on the show is because I'm no longer a Montreal Canadian. I would have had you either way. But you were just a good villain almost from the get-go.

And, you know, the Canadians and the Bruins, usually they were the hammer and the Bruins were the nail. Flipped a couple times, but for the most part, Montreal. While I was there anyway. Yeah, yeah. My dad's a much bigger Bruins fan than I am at this point. But growing up, I loved all the Boston teams. Equally, the Canadians would just, every year,

they would just beat us. And some of the worst losses of all time. It wasn't just that they beat us, it's that they expected to win, and it just carried over. And even when the Bruins would beat them in a playoff series, it never felt, it almost felt like they were going to take it back or something. And even when the Bruins would beat them in a playoff series, it never felt, you know,

almost felt like they were going to take it back or something, but well, I got a great franchise. It is. They're both, you know, extremely good franchises. I mean,

you think about it in professional sports. I think they said that there's no professional sports teams that have faced each other more. The Boston Bruins and the Montreal. It's like over a hundred years, right? Yeah. It's like over a hundred times.

Like it's crazy. So to be a? Yeah, it's like over 100 times. It's crazy. So to be a part of that, I was on both ends. I was at the end when we lost in Game 7 to Boston and they went on to win the Cup. And then I was on the other end where we beat them in Game 7. We didn't go on to win the Cup, but we beat them and we were able to salvage the fact that they beat us two years before. And we beat them in their building on home ice

and there was nothing sweeter than that. I'm sure that wasn't probably your brightest moment. You and Marshawn, you had like an agitator off every once in a while. Yeah. It's just like the DNA kicks in. You guys are staring at each other like, I'm here to agitate people, and you are too. This is going to be great.

You know what? I love Brad because of, number one, the way he he competes the way he plays i love it people don't always agree with everything he does on the ice but as a player uh he's he can play he's a player he's a gamer the the other part of him that i admire that i don't admire about everybody else because not everybody else brings us to the table is he understands that it's entertainment and he plays into that he feeds off of it off of it and i can tell because when we're playing in those games and you know it's almost like what's you know let's give them what they came to see kind of thing and yeah it's back and forth it's jabs and yeah you have something you enjoyed it what's does nashville have a rival like that? It's impossible, right?

Already? Chicago. How many years has it been? Chicago. I don't know how long, but I can tell you I've played. Now I think it's two games that we've had at the Birdstone Arena. Those games were different than any other games that we've played this year at home. There is a hatred there. It seems like a lot of people hate Chicago, though.

I've had Kings season tickets now for six years, and the Kings fans hate the Ducks, the Sharks, and the Blackhawks. Well, they hate the Blackhawks because of the fact that they battled during those times of when Chicago won three Cups and L.A. won two. I mean, it was either everybody knew. One of those teams make it out, and there's a good chance that they're going to win the Cup because of how deep they were.

So I think that's where it was there. But for Nashville, they're in our division. They're a division rival. It's like, yes, St. Louis division. Minnesota, St. Louis. But Chicago, no. When it comes to Chicago, there's a different brand of hate there, and it's thick

do we have too many hockey teams in the NHL yeah what's your ideal number mine's 24 okay so if I'm gonna if I'm gonna play manager if I'm gonna play executive right now and look at the league be commissioner you know what I'd hate like it's I'm not saying one day I'd love to be the commissioner in the NHL that way I don't think I think you're disqualified because you have a personality. Well. Yeah, that was a Bettman dick. You heard me. I know you can't say anything, but I made it.

You're just an innocent bystander. But here's the thing. Fans don't know Gary personally, right? Like I've had an opportunity to talk with him and speak with him. And I don't know if I'm allowed to say this as a player, but I like Gary. I booed him personally. Does that count? No, I like Gary. I booed him personally. No, I like Gary. I like Bill.

It's unbelievably tough. It's like people look at the coach of the Montreal Canadiens or the goaltender. Nobody can imagine what it's like to be in that position. Nobody can imagine to understand what it's like to be the commissioner of the NHL. You look at the other leagues and the revenues that they bring in and the nhl is at the bottom it's not it's not in the top two or three three leagues

right so gary's job in terms of expanding the league and growing revenues i mean revenues have only gone up they've only gone up since he's been here so you know you really should be the next commissioner well i'm just saying i'm just saying you gotta look at it's an impressive selling job. You got to look at it big picture. As a player, I mean, listen, I've been lucky enough to be one of the top players in the league where I get paid top dollars, so it's easy to speak when you're getting paid handsomely and you're one of the top paid guys in the league. But if I'm looking at it, those third and fourth line guys are making a lot more money now than they were 10, 15 years ago.

You never answered my question about how many teams the league should have. Right now, you know what? Here's why I would say less, and I don't want to get rid of teams I feel bad, but the rivalries and seeing the same team five, six times a year, by that fourth time in March you just you're tired of them already you know and then okay I don't know I think it helps to just have the team come in once or twice and that's it okay but I don't know well if that's the case as a player I'm looking at it well let's play less games our game is just if not more physical than the NFL well yeah I play

16 games a year we play 82 plus travel plus playoffs. You're looking at the top teams in the league. Jonathan Taves has played over 100 games a year, probably consistently for the past five or six years. Like think about the wear and tear on your body when that happens. But that's why Stanley Cup champs don't repeat. I'm convinced because it's like.

It's so hard. I know a couple of the Kings a little bit. When they, after 2012 and 2014, those guys were so banged up. I mean, Quicks physically really hasn't totally recovered from that three-year stretch because they almost made it in 2013 too. But man, it's like over 300 games. Listen, if I had it my way, just as a player, and this is me speaking selfishly,

this has nothing to do with what other guys think. This is just me. I would like to see the games get cut down. I would like to see 82 games, in my opinion, it's a grind. You're going to see great players' careers ended shorter because of the fact that they're playing more games. And you look at this year just the schedule alone i mean we've been playing almost every second day i think for the whole season yeah it's been crazy because of the world the world cup and you know the all-star game and all these extra things that are coming in and it's it's crazy but here's the

reality you cut games that's less revenue, that's less money for players, that's less money for owners. So you've got to understand. It's like, what do you want? Everybody's got to make money, right? What about a 70-game series and best of nine for the playoffs? What's that? A 70-game season?

70-game regular season, best of nine. I'd like to see it do it just like the NFL. Do 16 games do 16 games 16 games do 16 games one game a week and just so more like a soccer model

blow out the stadiums make them huge and just make it really really intense and just you know I'm just kidding you can't do 16 games

no but you could do like a premier league type of model where you know the premier league in soccer but here's like what a 36-game season?

But here's my point. Revenues. It comes down to money. 82 games, that's 41 games in your building. That's 41 games of 22,000 plus fans. That's tickets. That's everything. Every time someone comes in the building, that's beer. That's everything. Food, food concession stands it's all about money tv it's that's what it's about right so i don't think it would you could ever restructure the league that way but i'm just thinking that the days of seeing guys who have 22 year careers and only the freaks will be able to do that there's some freaks out there that just they're blessed with that body type chelios was a freak right i mean he couldn't have been a human being. Lidstrom could have played another 10 years,

I feel like, if he wanted to. You know, there's a lot of guys out there, but with the game the way it is now, and those guys will tell you, it is so much faster, and it only gets faster every year because guys are training. Like, let's think about it.

You get your contract. There's guys coming in the league who want their contract. Like, it's just, and they're young. There's guys coming in, like, there's, you know, Fiala on our team. He's a 90, I think he's a 96. I mean, geez, I mean, he's so young. You know, it's unbelievable how young the players are now coming into the league. So the speed, the skill, it's all higher.

I can't believe how much bigger the guys are. They're huge. Because I sit behind the net for the Kings games, and every other team has some defenseman that's like 6'7". And they can skate. It's not only that they're big. They can skate. They can hit.

They have skills. The game has changed so much. And with that, I've just noticed it. I can tell. I mean, I'm going to be 28 now, and I'm looking at this, and I'm saying, wow, the game's really fast. Yeah. It's fast, you know.

It seemed slow for me, you know, for a while. And now it's like it's fast. You've got to prepare your body for that type of game. And, you know, I just think I'm looking at it, and I'm saying, you know, you're going to see less and less guys that are going to play, you know, 18 seasons and 19 seasons seasons and 19 seasons you see more guys that'll play 12 to 15 and then that'll be it defenseman usually last a little bit longer defenseman can last a little bit longer because you know what even as a as a defenseman you can change you can be a top defenseman that contributes offensively

plays in all situations and then as your career goes on maybe your body doesn't allow you or your game slows down you can become a third or fourth defenseman and still be able to contribute and fit into the lineup the thing is about the top forwards is that once you're a top forward you know and your score you're expected to score goals the moment you can't score anymore they find somebody else to do it there's a young player that can come in and do that so it's a lot tougher but uh that's just the game. How many regular season games a year are you like, oh man, I could tell the team doesn't have it tonight. This is going to be a low intensity affair. You know what? You see that a lot. I see it from the stands. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. That's just a part of it. Right. And that's the same thing in basketball. It's the same thing

in basketball. It's the same thing in basketball. True. It's the same thing in baseball. Think about baseball, the games that they played. Sometimes you just look and you're just like. Those guys are drunk. They're fine. You're just drinking the dugout.

I got a couple of baseball buddies. I can't throw them under the bus. But you see that in basketball. Basketball is probably the most comparable because we have the same amount of games. But it's not nearly as visible. It's easier to hide in a hockey game, though. Like, what do you mean? Basketball, you're pretty naked out there.

There's only 10 guys, and if you're mailing it in, you can see it. And in hockey, you really have to look to see who's mailing it in. Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, you can't mail it in. Like, the signature guys can't mail it in. No, but just like you said, the signature guys, the signature guys in basketball, they mail it in. You can tell right away. True.

In hockey, it's different because hockey is the ultimate team sport. Right. It doesn't matter. You could be the highest paid player on the team, but you need 22 guys. You can have the best game of your life and still not win. And what's interesting is all 22 guys somehow factor into the playoff run well exactly in hockey no you need it's really uncanny it's like everybody will have one moment as it goes along you need it and that's that's probably why the marketing for

the nhl is so different from any of the other leagues yeah you know you look at the nba lebron james has the best game of his life i'm gonna say 99 of the time you're gonna win 99 sydney crosby might have the best game of his life and you might lose right you might lose if your goaltender's not on if your defense are not on it doesn't matter you know what i mean so you know hockey is like it's an ultimate team sport you need 22 guys and you know as a team right now we're figuring that out you know as we try to make a push for the playoffs here, we're a couple points in. You know, but it's a grind. Everyone in the West is separated by like a point.

It's tough. The West is tough. Yeah. It's a grind. The West, it's like basketball. The West is better than the East for some reason. It's just tough. The game is different.

It's heavier. It's grinding. It's just, it's a different game. But you know what? I feel that it makes you a better player, you know, because you go over to the East and you notice it's faster. It's a different game. But you know what? I feel that it makes you a better player. Because you go over to the East and you notice it's faster. It's more skilled. But not everybody can play that Western Conference type of game.

Right. I have some pointed hockey questions for you. Yeah. Does a hockey coach actually do anything? This is something that I sit behind the net and I watch everyone skate around and it feels I know there's a rhyme and a reason what's going on but it also feels like just intensity is the most important thing and the teams that are flying around you can tell the teams that are a little lethargic you can tell that too and the hockey coach is basically

on the bench kind of telling people to go in and out. What am I missing? What is the hockey coach doing that I can't see? Well, the first thing I will say, if you don't have the horses, you can't win. Yeah. You need to have the horses. Okay. The odd time you'll be able to win, if you catch a team on an off night or you get the bounces, you'll be able to win.

But to win consistently in the NHL, you need the horses. But a coach can make a very, very big difference in a team. Okay, but how? Give me an example. The way he manages players. Managing 22 different individuals is not an easy thing to do in professional sports. Okay. A good coach knows how to do that.

A good coach not only can put a system in, but get players to buy into that system. That is the toughest thing to do as a coach you can draw up whatever you want on the board but can you get the players to buy into that and believe in it so game time game's happening he's just seeing everything and he's filing stuff away for later yeah to motive like motivate the guy all right that makes sense to me i've had listen i've had a number of coaches and i can tell you peter laviolette right now in terms of his ability to execute the game plan and get players to buy in okay you know it's it's it's got to be up there with some of the experiences that i've had with some coaches he's he's just amazing in terms of his communication the way he how he

treats guys it's you don't even see him as a coach you respect him as a coach but you don't see him that way so when he comes down the bench and says pk you got to get your feet moving pk you got to elevate your game or he calls you out in the room there's no other thought other than you're looking at yourself saying i need to be better yeah and when you're able to do that as a coach, that takes a lot. Because in this league, the other 30 coaches or 29 coaches, if you go through the locker room, can you ask players, and will they say that?

Will they say that when my coach comes down and tells me to get my, like, are they looking at him with the side eye, or are they saying, I got to get going, I got to be better? And I think that's the toughest thing as a coach is just to get players to buy in. And you might have players that want to do it, but are they doing it? Okay.

Are they doing it? Can you be normal and be a goalie? Your brother's a goalie. Yes. I watch the goalies and they're very OCD and they have all their little patterns that they have to follow. And it's a very lonely job

and all of a sudden they're under siege and then it's calm again then they're under siege and it's it's it's yeah it's there's a scary job you got to be wired a little differently yeah when you're getting pucks fired at your head like you know what I mean like and also guys flying into the crease like it feels like that's happened everyone's's going so fast. More and more people are just flying into them. I'll put you in a hockey net and let me fire

a couple one-timers by your ear and then you tell me if goaltenders are normal. You tell me. Your brother, didn't he switch when he was like a...

Yeah. I know the story because he was a Bruins draft pick. When he was like 11 years old, he switched. He was defense

and he moved to goalie. He was an unbelievable hockey player. Just didn't like defense? Didn't have a, he switched. He was defense and he moved to goalie. He was an unbelievable hockey player. Just didn't like defense? Didn't have a passion to play. He didn't, like Malcolm was the type of player, he'd go in the corners with four eggs in his pocket and walk out and they'd all be shining.

They wouldn't like, he wasn't, he didn't have that, and that's fine. That's just the way he was. He loved to play goalie. The three of us, when we'd play on the backyard rink, Malcolm would always be the one to want to go in net. He'd always want to be the one to play goalie. Me and us when we'd play on the backyard rink malcolm would always be the one to want to go in net he'd always want to be the one to play go me and jordan would play out so um yeah he switched at 11 and he hasn't looked back okay so goalies for the most part

i'm gonna go off the beat path i'm gonna say yeah okay i'm not gonna say they're crazy i'm just gonna say that there's a couple different wires going on there. Why you accepted, but most hockey interviews, they all have a certain rhythm to them that it almost seems like kids are taught when they're 10 how to give an interview. And it's like, well, you know, we got to go out there and we got to do our job and we'll keep skating hard and go out there and see what happens.

And it's that same rhythm. Everybody has it. You don't have it but what is it where does it come from well i think that it's i don't want to say that players are like that i think the media often puts players in a position where they answer questions that way i don't think it's so much if you think if the questions were better they'd be more lively i think if you could trust the media for me i'm indifferent you know i'm indifferent i i uh i feel that you should speak your mind yeah and that's just the way i am but some guys just rather keep it simple for themselves and say listen you know when the media

burns you once or take something that you've said and turn it and spin it like like they often do you know then players all they take a step back and they say, you know what, I'm not gaining anything from giving you guys more. So I'm not going to, I'm going to give you guys the answers that everybody else gives. And then the media turns around and says, well, we need more out of you guys. Well, then don't take what we say and spin it. Say exactly what we're saying. And just because it's been a slow week and you need to make a story, why should the players be at the expense of that so i'm defending the players on this i think

if the media would um you know earn more trust from players and gain our trust in terms of how they write their stories and you know not be so-called quote-unquote as i would say rats um you know in terms of how they write things up. Well, no, that's the truth. Like if I'm calling it the way it is, that's the truth. You know, I mean, ask players how many times they've looked at an interview, an article that's been written, and it's like, well, that's not what I meant. You know, pretty much you can, any player, you'd be, it'd be rare to find an athlete that hasn't read an article

about themselves where it's been spun in a negative way you know so i i think the media is to blame for that you had a big new yorker profile about you like what three four years ago yes i did mcgrath yes i did just has to be the longest piece they ever wrote about a hockey player i guess you could say that i'm surprised it's really interesting i'm they didn't do anything about henrik lundqvist in new york maybe they did yours was long though it was long i mean that was like a profile. So did you feel like that was accurate and you were happy with how you were captured?

Oh, it was great. Because that guy's a good writer. It was great. No, no, no. You know what? I've had more positive experiences with the media than negative ones. And maybe that's why I'm the way I am. It doesn't discourage me if somebody writes a negative. I just kind of take it.

It's like water on a duck's back. It just rolls off. I could care less. You know, someone can write whatever they want at the end of the day. But, you know, I know at the end of the day, if I ever have that person in an interview or whatever, I'll expose them. So, you know, they can't say that stuff to my face. You know what I mean?

I know what I say. I know what I stand for. I know what I represent. And I kind of just leave it at that does canada have enough hockey teams um you know what you could put more you probably could squeeze a couple more in there right we could you probably could but if we're looking to grow the game you have to be willing to experiment here's the reality of the of the experimentation process is who takes you know who takes the blame or who takes the heat or who who's at expense who's the expense go to

when it doesn't work out right when you have a team that maybe doesn't get the fan base or doesn't have the revenues who takes the hit for that is the owners or the players or do we share it and i think that's where that's where we have those disagreements right is like who takes the hit for that is the owners or the players or do we share it and i think that's where that's where we have those disagreements right is like who takes the share for that and i think that at the end of the day you have to be willing to test the waters you have to try you have to go into communities and that's where grassroots comes in that's where the growth of the game happens you have to be willing to get kids into the game and grow the game and a perfect example is nashville you know if we were scared to not go to n kids into the game and grow the game. And a perfect example is Nashville.

You know, if we were scared to not go to Nashville, there'd be no team there. I mean, Nashville's one of the best. You ask any players in the league, it's one of the best places to play. Players love playing there. They love that city. Teams come in all the time. I mean, since I've been there, every time a team comes in, guys are asking where to go and what to do. And they want to have rookie party there.

It's like it's the great it's a great place. But I mean, you look at it. You don't think Winnipeg's like that? No, Winnipeg's great. I mean, I don't know if guys are doing a rookie party in Winnipeg. I love Winnipeg. Listen, I played when I played in the minors in Hamilton. We used to love going to.

I went to Winnipeg once for a story and and it was minus eight with a minus 31 wind chill. Yeah. And I've never felt anything like that in my life. I honestly thought I was going to die. It gets a little chilly there. And I was living in Boston at the time, so it's not like I didn't know what cold weather was. This was like a whole other, like it went through your entire body. Winnipeg's, yeah, it's bone chilling.

It's bone chilling. But then again, you can say this and that, but then you step into the MTS Center, and it's bone chilling. It's bone chilling. But then again, you can say this and that, but then you step into the MTS Center, and it's rocking. Yeah. It's loud. There's energy. I wish there were two more teams.

Montreal could have had a second team, right? Yeah, but I don't know. You wouldn't do it, but it could have happened. I don't know if the Canadians would like that. I don't know if they'd like to share their families. A villain team? I don't know. I don't know.

I mean, listen, we've had some games in quebec city there's definitely fans there they'd love it but like i said this is you have to look at it right the players there's things that we'd like to change there's things on the league side that they'd like to do but it comes down to this again it comes down to the business and money and can we make more money doing this so even in the last six years when i've had tickets i've noticed that the style of play has changed because of concussions in a positive way so the nfl is facing a lot of the same issues right and it's really hard to convince guys playing tackle football to change how they play but in hockey i've noticed that everyone is is just a little

more careful about oh yeah i can't hit that guy in the open ice if he's not looking, or, oh, I shouldn't check the guy from behind into the backboard. It seems like the game has evolved positively and more safely in a way that I don't know if it gets enough credit for, or am I overthinking it? Well, you have to look at the nature of the sport. They're two different sports, completely different. Because when you're carrying a football and you get hit and you get knocked down, the play's over. When you're playing hockey and you

get hit, you're expected to get back up and keep playing. Yeah. Because there's a puck out there, right? In football, the only time the play continues when you get hit is if the ball gets knocked loose. So your job as a player is to knock the ball loose or to stop that guy in his tracks. That's your job. When you're playing hockey, your job is to get the puck. You're trying to put the puck in the net,

you know? Now, every now and then, yeah, there's a time where you need to set the tone and you got to lay out a big body check, but that's not the nature of the sport. If you look at the nature of the sport in hockey,

guys used to play without helmets. Like they used to play without helmets. I actually remember watching, I remember when the helmets came being mad about it as a little kid. Oh man, I miss seeing everybody's hair. That's what I mean. Yeah.

So there has been a history of respect in the game. Now, if somewhere along the line, it was lost because of all this equipment came in. So now it was like players forgot about it. It's like, oh, I don't have to because you're wearing a helmet. Yeah. Oh, you got all these hockey pads on so I can slash you harder, you know, or you got this helmet on that's supposed to protect you from concussion. So if you're not looking, I can still hit you. when guys didn't have their helmets on that's not how it was

it was like you didn't do that right it was like or if you did it they just fought if you did they fought or it was like frowned upon even your own teammates were like you can't do that right so there was that mutual respect in the game of hockey i think now it needs to be more controlled because the game is so fast. It's not even so much that players. So you think it is a problem still? Well, the speed of the game? No, the hits.

No, no, no. I think it's gotten a lot better. I think it has. We've seen less and less concussions. We've seen less and less. And think about it. When guys get hit in the head now, there's protocol. You got to go in the room.

The NHL has done a really good job cleaning that up. As a player, I have to admit it because I've seen it change quickly too. Very quickly. It hasn't taken long. It's been, that's changed in the last three years, four years, you know?

So they've done a really good job of doing it. But in football, I mean, it's tough. I mean, I'd hate to have to be somebody in charge of that. Unless you're going to say that there's no helmet to helmet hits. You can't,

the moment you hit somebody in the helmet, it's a penalty or whatever, like whatever it is. I don't know what they have to do, but maybe there need to be more severe suspensions or penalties or whatever it is. But you have to change. If in order to do that,

I feel like you'd have to change the culture of the game, you know, because the culture of that game, it's, it's, it's, it's barbaric. That's what it is.

It's like, it's listen, lay them out. That's it. I'm suspicious. I mean, hockey players are just incredibly tough. And I just can't believe how many times defensemen lay out in front of a slap shot and guys get hit in the face with a puck and they just skate off and they come back. I'm suspicious that if an nhl player had a concussion in a playoff series that they would say anything because the code of the nhl is get

back out there be tough do your job somebody's gonna take your job and now we're saying like hey if you have a concussion you got to tell us and these guys are trying to win a stanley cup there has to be situations where they're not being honest. You know what? You'd be surprised. That's on the player. Yeah. You know, that's not a reflection of the league. That's not a reflection of the training staff. That's not a reflection of the coach.

No coach. Player, that's it. It's the code. No coach, if your head is scrambled, is going to tell you to go out there and play. Because guess what? He's got to win. So if you're out there and your brain's scrambled,

he'd rather have a player out there that's thinking straight and that's healthy. He's not going to want to put a player out there that's hurt, regardless of how good you are. So the reality is that it's on the player. You know when you're hurt. You know when your bell's been rung. You have to think about your well-being and tell the truth. That's what it comes down to.

Now, at the end of it, you're going to make that judgment call. It's going to be on you. Some guys, I'm sure, in their careers have been banged up and never said anything and were able to get through it and made recovery for recovery from it and are okay. But other guys, I'm sure, haven't and it got worse. And who knows, maybe that's the reason why their career ended shortly or why they were out for extended periods of time.

So, you know, there has to be some onus on the players as well. It can't just always be on the league and on the training staff and the coaches. You know, the players got to take some responsibility for that too. They could change the name of the Norris Trophy to the Bobby Orr Trophy at this point. I don't know. And nobody remembers who Norris was. Who was Norris? That's a good question.

You don't even know who Norris was. You won the trophy. James. James Norris. That's right. was Norris? That's a good question. You don't even know who Norris was. You won the trophy. James. James Norris. That's right. James Norris. It's on the trophy. It's on the trophy.

You know what? I wouldn't be opposed to that. I mean, because Bobby Orr. Bobby Orr was even before my time. You know, watching Bobby Orr is best of Bobby Orr seasons. Yeah. I mean, YouTube's been very kind to Bobby Orr fans. Well, exactly.

And the best of Bobby Orr tape my dad bought me I watched it and you know got to watch his whole story and his impact on the game and what he did and he changed

the game for defensemen you can't even compare it to anything because he was moving so much faster it almost seems like oh no it seems like he came from a time machine

he was playing in a generation that it was like almost looks like if you put the best defenseman right now into a beer league and just had them skate around and do stuff. Yeah.

Well, how many different generations of a defenseman are we going to see? I mean, that's the pinnacle of it. Yeah. He was able to do everything. He was able to defend. He got 139 points one year. Yeah. It's crazy.

You know? I mean, but then you got to take him to play and, like, it's the equipment. It's crazy. You know? I mean, but then you've got to take into play, and, like, it's the equipment. It's the speed of the game. It's the players. I mean, players have improved so much. Yeah. Like, they're so much better.

Everyone's fast now. They're so much better. Everybody's fast. Everybody can skate. Everybody can stick handle. Everybody's got skills. Everybody, you know, the goaltenders are all good. They got equipment now. It's like... We used to have a guy in the bruins named wayne cashman yeah who was there

forever and was a good lefty fighter for a while and had had a nice run and did he have a mustache i don't know if he ever had the mustache but he started going bald so he grew it out in the back and he had this extra like five years where he's just, you know, like nowadays that guy's gone. But in the early 80s, you could kind of hang on and just skate around and get in a fight every once in a while and stay around the net. And now those guys are gone. Now it's just speed, speed, speed.

It's speed now. You still have players that do that, you know, but they have to be able to play. You have to be able to play because you get to the playoffs. If you can't play, you're not in the lineup. Who's the best team you guys have played this year? Or can you not say because you don't want to inspire them? You know what?

We've played a lot of the teams that are ranked to be the best. We've played Columbus. We've played Chicago. We've played Minnesota. We've beat them all. So I think there's so much there's so much parody in the league now you can't i don't think you can look at any specific team and say they're the best team in the league in a seven game series any team can beat any team

when was the last time you could you could say that in the nhl that you could look at the league and say i don't know it does feel like a bit of a transition era. Like the McDavid generation is, this is like the year before a new era. I can't see the black taxes. It's like this now. The league's like this. It's not like this in terms of teams. It's like this.

It's like up and down. And you look at it, even teams out of the playoffs right now, they could beat anybody on any night. That's just the way the NHL is. That's the way it is, and it's great for the league. It's good. You've gone against McDavid, I'm sure, right? Yes, I have.

Any thoughts? I'm very excited about him. I might own a couple of his rookie cards as an investment. I always have one over him because when he was 17 and he was playing at the under 17, they asked him who his favorite player was, and he said it was me. So I have one over him.

I already know what he thinks about me. He said a defenseman. That's interesting. He said that. It's in an article. I mean, I've got to pull it up. I'm surprised I don't have it framed, you know, just so that I can have that. That's pretty good.

Yeah. Well, he said it. So I don't know if he takes it back now, but he can't. It's been out there. But I think he's phenomenal. I think he's explosive. He's got the head for the game. He's got all the intangibles.

He's freaking fast. Yeah. Good Lord. I went to All-Star Saturday and they skated around to try to do the fastest lap thing. Oh, my God. I just want to see him. It's exciting to see a player like that, and you want to see players like that do well because I want to be a part of a generation

where I can look back and say, I played against that guy. I played with him. I shut him down. I played five games against him, and he never scored on me, never scored. I want to say that about a player like that. So I hope he has a ton of success in his career

his parents are great his family's great and he's a really good kid i know he's friends with my brother but he's he's he's phenomenal he's definitely the next best you know thing coming in the nhl so do you still hate the bruins or does it go away because you're not in montreal anymore i never hated the bro come on i know i loved i love the bruins i Oh, come on. I loved the Bruins. I loved the TD Garden. I loved Boston. You know why? Because they always brought the best out of me. If it wasn't for them, then maybe I would have never learned to elevate my game in the playoffs.

Maybe I wouldn't learn how to control my emotions in those heated games. So I felt I got better because of them. So I can't hate them for that. So I blow all of you Boston fans a nice big kiss. So you're signing with Boston when you're like 35. That's why it just feels like this is going. That sounds like a dream or a wish. Is that a dream or a wish of yours?

PK, thanks for coming on. Oh, no, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I don't know if I'm going tomorrow night, but it sounds like I'm going to see you in the playoffs. You seem optimistic. Yeah, no, no, you're definitely going to see us in the playoffs. Yeah, that's happening.

Thanks for coming on. This was fun. Thanks for having me. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to SeatGeek. Download the SeatGeek app today or go right to SeatGeek.com. Thanks to Movement.

Go to MVMTwatches.com slash bill. Get 15% off today plus free shipping, free returns. Thanks to the Ringer Podcast Network. Don't forget to subscribe to Achievement Oriented and the Masked Man Show. And Thanks to the Ringer Podcast Network. Don't forget to subscribe to Achievement Oriented and The Masked Man Show.

And thanks to TheRinger.com. That's where you can find my column about Russell Westbrook that went up today along with a whole bunch of other great content. We'll be back with another podcast on Friday. Until then. I don't want to see them on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them. On the wayside, on the way so I never say I don't have feelings with them.