The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 188: March Madness Extravaganza With Mark Titus, Cousin Sal, and Kevin O'Connor

Episode Date: March 15, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on The Ringer's Mark Titus to discuss Evan Turner's ideal skill set (5:00), LeBron on a mid-major (8:00), Cousin Sal's best bet for the title (16:00), the best rivalry in college hoops (23:00), and Villanova's chance to repeat (28:00). Then, The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor join to give his thoughts on the top NBA prospects in March (37:00), Jayson Tatum vs. Josh Jackson (46:00), Rick Pitino's regrets (53:00), and the need for Gus Johnson (1:03:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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of stuff, TV, film, lately Bachelor. And the reason I bring this up is the season finale of The Bachelor was this week. And we had a special bachelor party episode hosted by Juliet Lipman with Roger Sherman, the greatest bachelor recapper of all time. And myself, I made a cameo. I came in, I warmed up the audience for Roger Sherman, but I went on that one. So if you want to hear that, go to channel 33. You can listen to it, subscribe to it. I can't believe you're not subscribing to it already. And we also have a sports movie hall of fame coming up that is also going to be on channel 33. So if you want to hear that, we've done four, this will be the fifth. And if you want to hear it, I would download or subscribe Channel 33.

Check it out on iTunes, on Stitcher, on Overcast, on SoundCloud, wherever you get your podcasts, Channel 33. This one we have, we're going to do all March Madness. We're going to do a March Madness preview. Titus is in the office. Cousin Sal is going to call in to talk about his crazy thing where he's risking his house against anyone who might do a perfect bracket. I can't believe he's doing this. I can't believe he's going to stay married. And then we have the ringers, Kevin O'Connor, to break down some of the NBA potential of the best guys you're going to see in March Madness. It's all coming up right now, but first, Eddie Vedder. All right, we're taping this on a Tuesday afternoon, so if anything dramatic happens,

don't blame us. Mark Titus is here from the rear. The original Club Trillion. Now it's just Mark Titus. It's like when a wrestler dumps their first nickname. Yeah. I remember the first time I came on with you, I got a lot of crap for it. I was very bad.

I didn't have my reps, as you like to say. Is that true? Yeah. Here's the name. There's no way you'll remember. A kid named Omar Sanhan who played at... Oh, yeah. Omar was my dude. He played at st mary's i think we were both seniors in college at the same time and he and i both came on like the same pod not together but we were both on the bs report

and then the uh the feedback was omar cool dude like that guy and i was like that tightest kid could do without him so hopefully we do a little better this time what what was the feedback when you say there's feedback like a message boards was there even twitter back then twitter was back yeah because this was like 2010 so i think i had a twitter account um i don't know i was i was like 22 and i was trying to be funny and i still get now i'm now i'm 30 and i'm trying to be i'm almost 30 and i'm trying to be funny so you're not 30 yet you like keep adding years to your own life for some reason. So we've known each other forever. I reached out to you. You were on Ohio State at the time. Yeah.

And I fell in love with your blog. I thought it was a prank. I got an email from an AOL email address. Right. And it was signed, hey, this is Bill Sivs. I was like, can't possibly be. Yeah. By the way, you would still be getting an email from that AOL address.

And you still have the same feeling. Yeah. I like the blog. I sent it toimmel kimmel fell in love with it and then we decided we had to reach out to you so i reached out to you and we started talking yeah and here i am now yeah you wrote a book i wrote we wrote a book james baby doll dixon helps you with the book offer gave me my my favorite all-time story about hollywood and just like the whole book process when he told me basically no one will give a shit about this book but i guess i'll do it anyway for baby nobody cares about college basketball i was like hey i want to write a book and he's like no you don't this is a terrible idea and i was like okay i remember he he ripped your book proposal to shreds yeah hurt your feelings and i had to

intervene and and it turned out baby knows nothing about book proposals or college basketball and baby was the wrong person to ask for advice on that also i was trying really i was trying really hard to to be in the know and be smart about all this stuff so he told me like hey type up a book proposal and get it back to me i was like yeah book proposal everyone knows what that is and then i hung up the phone with him i was like what the fuck's a book proposal and i'm like google how many paragraphs is this yeah right so well that book that book did really well well yeah yeah i still see it occasionally in bookstores when i stalk the sports section and see what books are in there it plays it plays really well with like

high school guys that are into sports and and are forced to read like they have to do book reports right and so they'll pick my book and they're like it was awesome i'm like i'm not really sure if that's the the demographic i had in mind but i'll take it and we should mention your your when you're in high school who was the crew we've done this before but but yeah reminder uh au team was odin uh mike conley uh eric gordon daquan cook and josh mcroberts were our starting five wow i came off the bench for that team yeah that starting five probably made over 300 million dollars in the nba combined right and and 95 of his mic just this last summer um yeah eric gordon just won the three-point contest daquan cook won a three-point contest and i was the best shooter on the team so

you know yeah you never gave up on Eric Gordon. I never did, no. Even during his Pelicans dark moments. You can correct me if I'm wrong because I don't follow his career as closely as I do the college stuff, but he had a lot of injuries, right? He was kind of...

Dumb injuries. He's sort of a tragic story. It's just not like he didn't have the bad one. He didn't have the blown out knees where you're like, oh, he's definitely done. It's just a lot of lingering stuff, right? Yeah. Is that kind of the vibe with him?

Yeah. He'd never, never anything that was debilitating like Chandler Parsons style or something like that, but always something that sent him back. The other thing that was fun with us was Evan Turner was, I would say a frenemy for you.

Yeah, frenemy, yeah. Definitely more than a frenemy in the book and then he showed up on my Celtics. He showed up to the Celtics, yeah. And I love getting the emails, like, how should I feel about this guy? And as the season's progressing, they're like, I hate this guy. And then, I love this guy. I think I like him.

No, I know I like him. And he turned into a beloved Celtic last year. Yeah. And I get a feeling that he's not beloved so much on his new team. No, it's too bad. But he's, i'll defend i'll do something i don't think i've ever done in my life and defend evan he has to have the ball in his hands and the reason he was decent in boston is because brad stevens and dad mata are tight

and so like stevens and call mine would be like hey what how do i use this guy and dad's like very specifically here's what you have to do if you want to be good and that's what they did and they put him in a position where he's good and like i'm not saying like nba teams shouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate evan turner but um if you can find a way to kind of do that he can he can still be good well if you're gonna spend 71 million dollars on him you might want yeah you might want to use him in the way that he's good at yeah but he has a very specific skill set and it's not what he's currently being used as when portland signed him i thought that that meant that he was going to run the ball and they're going to run the guards

off picks and it's the opposite the guards have the ball all the time and he's kind of standing on the side which we know doesn't work it's too bad yeah i think he'll find i was actually hoping that he was going to be traded for rudy gay and go to sacramento and just be the guy who always has the ball on boogie's team but then that dream got dashed for a variety of reasons. I just thought about this, my Evan story. so he got his Jersey retired at Ohio state cause he was the national player of the year.

Um, and so they had a big ceremony for it. He came back during like the all-star break cause he didn't make the all-star team. And, um, a little shot at Evan. Uh,

he, uh, so they're doing it during the all-star break or something i went to the ceremony and i was like no bullshit i'm gonna support support him like i i've had like this kind of fake feud kind of sometimes it was real sometimes not i'm like this is gonna be the time where i just completely support the guy um and i show up to this little this pre-game ceremony for him and i pull him off the side i'm like hey man um i just wanted to say like this is awesome and and i i've always loved you and i'm like whether you think so or not like i'm really

really happy for you and this is awesome i said who would have ever thought when you were a freshman here that a few years later you'd be having your jersey retired because he had like it's like a slow traditional start to college like he was unheralded recruit so i was expecting to be like i know man it's been a wild ride instead he's like i did honestly i did you know that was his response and i was like this dude he's never changed i love him god love him that's why we love him so i think that's why he turned out to be a belated effective nba player though yeah he's on southlakes last year and he's really thought he was the best guy in the team he's still i guarantee he's important like why am i not like the guy on this team i don't understand it i don't care how many points loaded up my column

or get it together so um the tournament's coming yeah and i would you know as as the diehard casual fan of college basketball who only really follows because of the draft prospects things like that it's so weird to me that for the second straight year the best player in college basketball is not going to be in the tournament don't you think we should maybe like the 16 seed just gets to add or they have a lottery like he could just show up on vermont that would be awesome for one game but he can only play like 10 minutes that's the that's the big uh kind of when when college basketball fans get bored and they come up with like scenarios to talk about that's kind of what you're saying is they'd say like what would happen if we put lebron on you know like one of these mid-majors

could they make the elite eight or something like that so yeah i'm all for that i think people would want to see that why not so you think lebron so lebron and four how about this lebrron and four guys who played college basketball but didn't have more than 100 minutes of game time. So me. LeBron and four guys like me. You, LeBron, and three other guys. Yeah. Is like a nine seed?

We'd be pretty good. You'd have to find, I think the goal with that would be to find guys like me who have, the reason we don't play is because we're bad at a lot of stuff, but the things we're good at, we're very good at. I can shoot really, really well. Everything else, I'm awful at. Yeah. So if you've got a good shooter, just a big guy who can rebound

and stuff like that, I think we'd be good. Because there are a lot of guys like that. A lot of the walk-ons, people think walk-ons in college basketball are terrible. They're not. They're just not diverse with their skills they just have like one specific skill set so westbrook would be the most fun for this game yeah that'd be awesome he would yeah he would try to kill everybody he'd try to kill everyone he'd nobody in college would have ever seen anything like it but yeah so not having markel fultz is a bummer it is a bummer but

there's a lot of good college players that that i'm excited to say i've really been impressed by tatum and i never want to like do guys but the guy's just a good scorer he's a very good scorer he's he's had an interesting season um just kind of like at the beginning of the year grayson allen was duke's best player yeah he was he was pre-season player of the year in college basketball so he was the guy um and then they start playing and luke canard starts becoming the guy who like is gonna be i think he's gonna be a great nba player he's he's a sleeper who's suddenly not becoming a sleeper because i think people can smell it so luke canard becomes the guy and then jason tatum this whole time is like when do i get to become the guy because i came here to be the

guy yeah so he's kind of just done it himself and said like i'm okay you guys can try to do your thing i'm gonna do mine and and it's gotten to a point where it's it's un of uh you can't ignore like what he's what he's doing so you know what's what's crazy about that and then we're gonna go to cousin sal and come back to this so you have the preseason player of the year yeah and now he's the third best player in his own team and did not get it really didn't get injured or anything. And that's why people, when you wonder why the media loves Duke, or like Duke's like the hot team and are they back and all this kind of stuff,

it's because of what you just said. Like Duke has three guys that are future pros that you can just throw the ball to and be like, hey, go get us a bucket. And that's a rarity in college. And none of them is Harry Giles. And none of them is Harry Giles, right. All right, Cousin Sal is on the line. But first, let's talk about Sonos, our old friends.

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Sonos. Check it out. Here we go. Cousin Sal. Cousin Sal is on the line right now. Hi, Cousin Sal. What's happening? Who do we have here?

I don't even know what's going on. Mark Titus is in the studio. We just told the story about when Babydoll got his book proposal and told him it was terrible and really hurt his feelings so mark titus was like 22 he's like this is terrible you got to rewrite this this is not a book proposal find a new career this is not for you so as i see this is why i don't this is why i don't mind uh padding the the bill when we go out to a restaurant two three thousand. Because how much did he make off that bill? If it's even anything, it's disgraceful. He did well in the book, and not just that,

but he proved that he didn't know anything about book proposals or college basketball. He's a great guy to help out with the project. We were talking about Duke, Sal. Can you work your magic and bet on Duke to win the title so we don't have to actually watch them work the title? Because you're on the worst gambling streak anyone's ever been on in the history of mankind. Yeah, it's pretty bad.

I'm about to lose something even bigger. But I like SMU. Have you guys talked about that? I think that's a nice six seed that could upset Duke. SMU could upset Duke. That's a good – Right? They're a scoring machine.

They're like 30 or 40 to 1 to win this whole thing, and that would be my mid to long range prop pick, I think, if I had to go with one. We're just going to talk about that, about long shot bets. SMU 30 to 1, by the way. Before we do, you have the longest shot bet anyone's ever done. You told me about this. I got frightened for you.

I told you not to do it. I was scared. I was scared for your marriage and your family and you did it anyway. So tell the audience what you did. Uh, right now you can go to cousin Sal bets, the house.com or si.com and fill out a bracket. And if you,

uh, if you, the winningest bracket gets $25,000, but if you're able to fill out a perfect bracket, you get to keep my house. Right. That's fair enough, right? You literally get your house. You bet your house that nobody can have a perfect bracket.

You are the same person who single-handedly swung the presidential election. You single-handedly inspired the Cavs to come back from a 3-1 deficit. Against a 73-win team. Yeah, against a 73-win team. You were on the wrong side of the greatest Super Bowl comeback ever, not even close. You were on that side. And then there was one other one.

Well, if you want to count this, I had La La Land. Yeah. And you had La La Land. And I did win. And then as it turns out, I just found out from your dad, you had Team USA in 1972 when they thought they won the gold medal against the Russians. You were one and a half years old, but you bet somebody in preschool and you lost that. So it's really an amazing moment. It's been a better year.

I told him to keep his mouth shut about that. But yeah, he had to make it public. Yeah, I tell people it's like 9.2 quintillion to one to fill out a perfect bracket. But if it's going to happen against anyone, I'm your guy. Titus, I forgot. This is how crazy things are. I forgot. I had Northern Iowa over Texas A&M up 12 with 48 seconds left,

and they lost the game in overtime. Oh, yeah. Remember that? That was last March. That wasn't that long ago. That was amazing, yeah. I remember when we did the Grantland live a couple times in 2012, 2013, and Sal's like, I just bet no buzzer beaters for day one or whatever.

I think it was the first game there was a buzzer beater. It was just immediately in the bed. It was definitely that first round of games. Yeah, and I'm doing it again this year. Wise-ass. Minus 150, no buzzer beaters. I'm going with it. If there's any time left on the clock, if they inbound the ball, I'm still alive.

Yeah, that's for the Thursday, Friday game. What is fun about that bet? What is fun about betting against a buzzer beater? I don't know. Titus, what's more fun than a buzzer beater? Why would you cheer? I don't know. Here's what's fun.

I don't have to check every game until there's like two and a half minutes left. So if I'm on my phone or doing something else, that's nice. And a lot of these are out of hand anyway that early on. But yeah, it's not really that fun. I don't know why I do it. I'm trying to think now. Well, Sal, is your wife, is she happy about this

bet the house thing? No. Has she reached out to your wife? I mean, she's furious with me. She wasn't talking to me yesterday. And then she made an announcement that she's just going to marry whoever, she's not leaving the house

and she'll just marry whoever moves in. I had an incentive to get a wife out of this. I had that for the rules. A wife and a house. Get to be a stepfather or a stepmother. Whatever you end up being. Exactly.

One talent you do have with gambling is a spidey sense for when somebody is becoming a little too popular as a trendy pick are we sure they're right as the people like corolla and daniel and some of our friends they start grabbing you know those people right us who is that team this year who is the trendy we have to stay away from that team because corolla likes them team. Well, it's weird. I know you talked enough about Duke, but it seems like an eight-loss team is getting a lot of heat. They're 6-1.

They're favored to win this whole thing. It's like, all right, they haven't put together six good games in all year, I don't think. Maybe it was a little run a few weeks ago, but I know what you're looking for, and I think it's mid-Tennessee State. I think they're overvalued here. I think they're giving, like, they started they were getting a point and a half,

and now they might be giving one and a half or two, and they play against Minnesota, and I think Richard Patino has his team ready. Also, that's a close game. I think it's a Milwaukee. They'll have the fans on their side, so what do you guys think of that? Titus made a face when you said Duke hadn't put together more than six games.

No, I was making a face about Duke being a favorite. Are they the favorites? They're the biggest favorites? They're the number two favorite right now, yeah. Wow. So here it is right now. It's UNC is 6-1, Duke 7-1, Kansas 7-1, Villanova 8-1, Gonzaga's plus 850, Arizona 900.

I don't get that at all. Kentucky 1100, UCLA 1200, and then it goes a little higher up to Louisville. But the teams that have lottery picks and guys like that are Kentucky and Duke and UCLA, and that's usually when there's more than a couple on the same team, that's usually an indicator. Yeah, Duke's problem, they have clearly the most talent. I don't think it's worth debating that they have the most talent in the tournament. They're just not like a good team. They don't fit together well at all.

And you've seen that all season when they lose the teams they shouldn't. It's because they don't have the chemistry. Like if they were an NBA team, they'd trade one of their superstars, you know, and try to get some pieces. And then the other thing with Duke coming back, like they're hot. Like Sal said, they won the ACC tournament and all that. But if you actually watch those games, they're down like 15 in the first half in all these games.

And they have to scrap and claw their way to get back. It's not like they're steamrolling these teams by 20 and playing really well. So that's going to be – and they don't have a point guard. They don't play great defense. They just like, the way they win is they overwhelm people with talent. They're like, we have nine McDonald's All-Americans

and four future NBA players or whatever it is they have, and you don't, and so we're going to beat you. And that's how they do it. Hands everywhere, every play on defense, hands flying around,

and they make their free throws, and that's usually how it happens, right? So, you know, Tate hosts a podcast with titus you've you've dealt with tate a lot you know how much tate hates duke tate has this irrational i don't need might not even be totally rational he's convinced that whenever coach k doesn't like his team he quits on the team and comes up with a fake reason to leave the season so when he had his back surgery yeah tate in all seriousness

like not with no irony at all was like see this is what he does this is what he does when he doesn't like his team yeah as tate points out not a lot of coverage of coach k's back since this also now coach k likes his team again the other thing we should point out is that he he had the back surgery right after their first – it wasn't their first loss, but it was like they lost – It was their first ACC loss. It was a bad loss. And that was when he was like, you know what?

By the way, I do have this back thing, don't I? Yeah, I think I have a herniated disc. He never does this when they're rolling. And he's like, well, we're rolling, but unfortunately I've got to step away for back surgery. So the Duke resurgence combined with Duke beating UNC two times in a row and then winning the tournament. Tate's, I mean, you've seen good Tate. Tate's surly. I was just going to say, I didn't think he had a mean-spirited bone in his body.

And this is what Coach K is, what brings it out of him. And it's just Duke. When J.J. Redick was here here and tate was just not friendly it was just flat out like not very friendly to jj reddick and at some point i brought up the unc duke thing and then jj reddick like thought i was kidding at first but then tate wasn't really joking and he loved it and he started kind of fucking with tate about unc a little bit and it was great i loved it it was the best yeah unc and. It was the best. Yeah, UNC and Duke is the number one rivalry I think

in any sport. I think that's the most hatred. I really do. Yankees-Red Sox doesn't have the same hatred anymore since both sides won. I'll chime in and say part of why Tate hates Duke so much is because Duke is clearly better. Maybe Duke doesn't hate Carolina because they're better than Carolina. It's like a condescending.

Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, you guys you guys oh is there a rivalry we didn't realize yeah we're too busy kicking your ass like to notice the yankee fans with everybody the yankee fans did that to us for a hundred years yeah i hate that tate and tate was also telling me the other day how he hates northwestern because you guys work with uh three or four people yeah northwestern now three or four it's like everybody it Three or four, it's like a hundred. It's a whole staff. Carolina wouldn't be able to face them until the final four. That's a shame.

That would have been fun if they got knocked off by Northwestern. Tate's had it with Northwestern. If Chris Collins goes from Northwestern to Duke, Tate might just take him out in his automobile or something, just get rid of him. That's great. I think this is all good for Ducators because there's too much duke title momentum right now is there there's no college rivalry with that much hatred other than i mean they're number one right they're as far as like a national scale yeah they're number one uh kentucky louisville is oh that's up there yeah

that's one a one b the one that like you guys don't want to talk about and don't care i'm just gonna say it because the fans will kill me if I don't, is Cincinnati Xavier. I've gone to a Cincinnati Xavier game, and I saw an old man with white hair put his hands on the neck of a 14-year-old boy because he was wearing a different colored shirt. And I'm not going to say which team was which, but that was the most heated thing I'd ever seen.

But no one cares about it because they're not that great a team. If you're the old man, please call in now if you're still alive because we need to know what you're doing UCLA and USC is a really good rivalry and there's real disdain on both sides but not like at the not at the level of the other three schools like Kentucky and Louisville if you told a Kentucky person we can frame Rick Pitino for something. It probably won't get traced back to you, but there's a 90% chance it won't. Are you in? They'd be like, I'm in.

What do we have to do? Part of what makes people think Kentucky and Louisville is bigger is there's the thing where they only play once a year because they're not in the same conference. But there's also no pro sports in Kentucky. Those are the teams to those people. That's it. Maybe Duke and Carolina fans agree they like the panthers or something or they can they can find common ground like kentucky no duke fans live in carolina tate just said let me ask you this to that point did the committee committee f with the algorithm a little and set up kentucky northern kentucky and florida state

florida gulf coast just to have a little something this isn't the answer you want but it's the real answer is that uh they just base everything off of geography so that's how you always get these matchups like if you get teams that are they just try to put the teams closest to the cities that are they're closest to so that's how that's how louisville and kentucky always seem to end up playing like recently because yeah they're not in the So that's how Louisville and Kentucky always seem to end up playing recently because they're not in the same conference. There are rules about not being in the same conference. They can't be in the same bracket.

That's why Duke and Carolina aren't. But then Kentucky and Louisville can be because of that. So it seems complicated, but it's not. All right. I like the conspiracy theory better. I like the conspiracy theory. That's the answer we didn't want. Now let me ask you this real quick.

I'm sorry, Simmons. One of my great favorite bets, you could bet the conference wins over under. I saw ACC at 15. That's the highest I've seen. That's ridiculous. I don't know that Wake Forest would count as a win. I guess it does all count, the play-in game. But you'd think it's a lot, but maybe it's possible.

Maybe Carolina wins five games. Maybe Duke wins three or four. And then you'd have to get a couple from each the rest of the way. You would have to have Duke or Carolina have to make the finals to get to 15, I think. I'm just curious. Do you know what the Big Ten number is? Was it like one and a half? Let me look it up.

Yeah, you're right It is one and a half in fact Wow they don't have Big 12 Big 12 is nine and a half Big East is eight Pac-12 is six and a half Big 10 is less than that

Pac-12 is six and a half Well they got good teams. They got three good teams. No, that seems low. Oh, yeah, okay. Arizona and UCLA alone could get to six, right? Oregon will win one or two, right? Should.

Wow, that seems low. I've watched a lot of Pac-12 this year because of Lonzo and just because it's on at night when I'm home. And I thought UCLA, Oregon, and Arizona, I thought those were three really polished teams, you don't agree Titus? And you can get a free one with USC I mean there's a reason

a West Coast team has a one in 20 years Oh shit! Some would say, yeah, I mean you know, maybe they're soft maybe they're not, I don't know Well that's before the ball brothers were driving 100 000 bnws even though one of us in high school what the hell is that why do you admit that it is interesting though because the the final four is in phoenix so this is the i think this

is the i don't remember this stat i think this might be the first one since 95 that's out west um so yeah yeah this is six and a half might be the year to do it like for a west coast team to six and a half so which conference because be the year to do it, like for a West Coast team to – Six and a half is – So which conference – because they also have a couple of the conferences. Will an ACC team win the tournament? Plus 155 is yes. Will a Big East team win?

Seven to one odds. That's probably not going to happen. Big 12, five to one. SEC, eight to one. And Big Ten is 16 to one. No. And that over on their found is six and a half and Big Ten is 16-1. No. And that over on their found is 6.5 for Big Ten. Yeah.

So SEC is Kentucky. Kentucky and Florida and South Carolina. Yeah, that's – Vanderbilt. That doesn't make sense. If you're betting on that, you're betting on Kentucky. Yeah, you just bet on Kentucky. Same with Big East.

If you're betting on that, you're just betting on Villanova, basically. Villanova. That's pretty much it. Titus thinks Kentucky is going to win the whole thing. Really? And if he had to bet. I'm not sure if that's true, but it is true, but yeah, maybe. Well, you picked it in your pool. If you had to bet. He should have to bet.

He should absolutely have to bet. He's a terrible bettor. Tate and I were filling out a bracket, and we were just kind of going with it. And it just sort of happened. And we may or may not have been pandering to it, because we knew that Kentucky fans are the craziest. If we just picked them, they would like us. But yeah, Kentucky.

So I have this thing about guards and defense, and that's what matters in the tournament more so than like – that's why I don't trust UCLA is because it's a one-game thing. You can go cold. You lose, you're out. If it was best of seven, UCLA could adjust, you know you know start hitting the next game but that's not how it works so kentucky has plays good defense when they're actually trying and playing defense and engaged and stuff and then they got two guards that are going to be lottery picks or should be that is

a tough two though you have wichita state essentially ucla and north carolina before you even get to the final four they do have the hardest draw. They have the hardest draw in the tournament, for sure. The thing that I don't like about UCLA is, and I don't know how many times it's happened this year, but I've personally witnessed it at least three times. They'll fall behind by, like, 13. Yeah. And then they have to do this thing where they rally back. And I can't tell if it's because Steve Alford's just a terrible coach or what's going on.

But it seems like it takes them a while to find their rhythm. And if that happens in the tournament, you're in major trouble because the guys are super nervous. They're on TV. And then, you know, it's not like you're home. It just happened in the Pac-12 tournament when they lost to Arizona. They shot like three for 20 or something. I forget what it was.

They were really bad from the three-point line. And, you know, like that. And the Pac-12 tournament i know you can roll your eyes and say like there's nothing to play for but they actually were playing for seeds because yeah one of those schools got to stay out west which ended up being arizona because they won it and then oregon and ucla got sent to other regions um so they were trying to you know that was like that was pretty much like an ncaa tournament game and they went cold and that's what happened so so pac the pac-12 six and a half sounds like a stay away

yeah because i i mean that's that's just a high variance type situation like of course any of those teams could arizona seems to be the best bet of those teams to me like arizona could especially with the the final four in arizona but yeah the big 10 the big 10, is that really one and a half, Sal? The Big Ten? No, no, I was kidding. What did I say it was? Big Ten is six and a half also. What do you think of that one, Titus? Big Ten has a lot of teams in the tournament.

That's what helps. Because it always seems like they win in round one, and then they get bounced. The problem is you don't have perennial Michigan State. That's not a lock. That's a pick-em in the first game. So what happened to Michigan State this year? Izzo sold a soul.

He's playing the one-and-done game, and he wasn't ready for it. He wasn't ready. He thought, like, I want a taste of that. And you're like, no, you don't want a taste of that. Yeah, that's like when Coach K someday, he'll sell a soul. Oh, wait, he's been doing it for 10 years. Pretend he's not. No, Michigan State had a lot of injuries. when coach K someday he'll sell his soul and do, Oh wait, he's been doing it for 10 years. I'm pretending he's not.

No, Michigan state had a lot of injuries. So like their entire team is either injured or a freshman. And Izzo was like pulling his hair out. Oh, that's too bad. Sal, what's your lock of, uh,

lock of the weekend other than losing your ass? Uh, I actually am going with, uh, Minnesota over mid Tennessee state for the, that's a Thursday game for all the reasons I gave. I think, uh,

mid Tennessee state is overvalued here. They, they take care. For all the reasons I gave, I think mid-Tennessee State is overvalued here. They take care of business against the weaker squads, but Minnesota's decent. I've seen them before. And I think I'm going North Carolina to win the whole thing. North Carolina? Is that a Tate pander? No, I love you, Cousin Sal. You're the best. Tate's so happy. He's

almost in tears. Tate, I think if there's ever been one seed that's been undervalued, aside from the Gonzagas of the world that people don't latch on to, I think it's North Carolina. I really do. I think you played a little possum against Duke. I go back to the regular season game. Playing possum?

Yes. Sal, does it bother you that Carolina has beaten one tournament team away from home since Thanksgiving? You made that up. You made that up. Did I make that up? It's fake news, so it doesn't bother me. It's fake news.

Because I crunched the numbers. They're going to have to beat tournament teams away from home to win this thing. They're going to have to do that. What about... Yeah, I know. I go coaching here. I've been screwing with Tate about that. What about the defending champs?

I like Villanova. I would explain Villanova as the Cavs of college basketball, not just because they won it, but they seem to just be in this mode of where they do just enough to get – like all season they were just doing just enough to get a one seed. They had a great record, so it wasn't like they were losing games they shouldn't. But they never really had those moments of like,

holy shit, Villanova, this team's unstoppable unstoppable they're just kind of going about their business um so yeah i mean i i like them it's uh i don't think they're as good as they were last year and that sort of is worrisome but kansas is another one that's kind of everyone's boarded they they kind of peaked from an interest standpoint three weeks ago and now they're under the radar yeah they i think i could see nev Nevada, Iowa State winner taking down Kansas. Oh, see, that's what I mean. Remember that? Three weeks ago they were unbeatable.

Yeah. Well, Kansas, yeah, they're sort of the same way. They've had a ton of close games this year. They win them all, which is, you know, it's better than losing them, I guess. But they're still in a lot of close games, playing with fire. Four-guard lineup for Bill Self, that's kind of new for him. We'll see.

I can't latch on to any of these darling teams like Rhode Island. I picked them three weeks ago. I had them on a Moneyline parlay. They were like a 15-point favorite and they scored 40 at home. It was disgraceful. I've been beaten up by almost everyone. Short-term, you're going to parlay Minnesota in round at home. It was disgraceful. I've been beaten up by almost everyone. So, short term,

you're going to parlay Minnesota in round one. I still call it round one, even though it's not round one. You parlay them with you sleeping in Jimmy's guest room for the next three months? Listen, everyone, I want you to fill out a bracket, because I'd rather have someone who I know take over the house and my wife.

Could Greg Oden fill it out? I didn't know that. Let him win. We're going to work on Greg Oden. All right, good luck, Sal. All right, thanks, Sal. I hope you don't lose your house. Okay, great.

Wait, tell everyone where to go again for it. Go to CousinSalBetsTheHouse.com or SI.com and fill out a bracket and win my house, please. I've been in it too long. Wait, you didn't tell us where Tony Romo's going. I think it's Houston or bust. Houston or Fox? Houston or bust, or retirement, I would say.

I don't know. I think everyone's effing with each other at this point, and I think they'll get a deal done. He can't be done. He can't be done. He's going to keep going. He could have the number two Fox, the John Lynch job, or the studio job if he wanted it.

Yeah. Move to LA and hang out with us. That would be great, too. But if Jerry Jones has a heart attack and passes away while he's banging a Hooters waitress, does Romo never get released? I don't know what it says in the contract about that. It stays there forever.

Yeah, that's it. Sal, are you prepared for the— Let me get going before I get out of trouble. Oh, yeah, go. All right, bye. All right, bye. All right, we're bringing in Kevin O'Connor right now. But first, let's talk about propercloth.com.

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you save $20 on your first shirt. Again, propercloth.com slash BS. Gift code BS. All right, let's bring in Kevin O'Connor. All right, we're back. Don't ever forget, Cousin Sal's always the best. So you want to talk about Gonzaga really quick? Well, yeah, I think Gonzaga's the best team in the country, which, like, I'm sure shocks you and anyone who doesn't really pay that much of attention. They just, like, are the most complete team. They lost one game at home, and it was a terrible matchup.

Who'd they lose to? To BYU, who, like, just... BYU has won, is it three years in a row now, Tate? Yeah, three years in a row at Gonzaga. It's just, like, one of those matchups thatate? Yeah, three years in a row at Gonzaga. It's just like one of those matches that they just don't have an answer for. Why don't they have an answer for it? Just the way their style of play.

BYU is just kind of up and down in bombs threes, and they make them because they're excited to be playing Gonzaga. They're also very sexually frustrated. Yeah, they're sexually frustrated. I mean, there's no sex on that campus. But i think like a lot of people love to hate gonzaga for some like the comparison i'd make for with wrestlemania season around the corner gonzaga is like the roman reigns oh of uh college basketball they're like they're being pushed to the top people don't like

it you don't deserve your place up here um so to that i would say like i think they do deserve it and um i don't know like people look for reasons to hate them and and they lost a game but it wasn't you know like it wasn't damning for for how they they lost to me so well i wonder during the same year that uh black contestant made the final three in the bachelor if gonzaga making the final four that's always been there's always been parallels between the two runs yeah there's like this narrative that gonzaga gets a one seed every year because they don't play anybody and then they lose in the second round and that's that's happened like once it happened a few years ago in wichita state beat them but otherwise they're they're actually not usually that good they usually get like a six seed and

then lose like when they're supposed to they They haven't been upset in eight years. Or they've been upset once. They've been upset once, the Wichita State game, in eight years. So, yeah, I believe in Gonzaga. I don't necessarily think they're going to win it. Plus they're tested every year against those tough Australians from St. Mary's. St. Mary's just gets the best of Australia every year. Yeah, St. Mary's has seven Australians on their team. I can't believe it.

They're all like great guys to hang out with. Did you ever have an Australian Ohio State? We had a Serbian and a Greek, and I think that was it. The ringer's Kevin O'Connor is on the phone. Kevin O'Connor, what's your favorite country for a basketball teammate, if you had to pick a country? Not America. It's got to be Croatia. See, that's where I country, not America. Gotta be Croatian.

I think that's where I am too. I like the Croatians. Dario Saric. I'd pick that guy on my team any day. They're tough. They see my good hangs. They've been around good looking women their whole life

because Croatian women are, you know, they know how to act socially. So you, Kevin does this draft guide that's really awesome every year that I think he's going

to do again with the ringer. But he watches all these dudes. He is very good at picking potential. Titus is also good. You approach him

from different ways. You're like two, you're almost like two, I don't know, sociologists that look at anthropology differently but come to the similar conclusions right yeah i yeah i mean i'm definitely more concerned with what you're doing in college like now um which is yeah i wrote a piece for the ringer about markel foltz and i think like that was kind of my angle like hey everybody markel foltz isn't just gonna be good like he is really good right now and that was um so i'm less interested in the guys that have a lot of potential and aren't that

good right now whereas o'connor and i look at it like it's like the real world leading into the the real world road rose challenge yeah it's the feeder system to the bigger ecosystem although you're probably in the middle of those two worlds O'Connor because you love the college too But this is you would say Unquestionably the best Class of The best tournament class Of talent that we've had This decade or was there another year that you liked more

It's Pretty damn good I think it's Probably the best one that I've done Over the last three or four years I think it's disappointing the spokesman In I've done over the last three or four years. I think it's disappointing that Spokes isn't in it, but at the same time, we have almost everybody else except for Dennis Smith. I think there's a lot of guys for us to watch this year. So we're missing Dennis Smith, and we're missing the number one pick

and maybe one of the best share thing guards in the last five years. But other than that, we have everybody. O'Connor, who's your favorite? I'm not saying who's going to get drafted the highest i'm saying who's the one who won your heart this year uh so coming into the year i didn't love lonzo ball but he completely won my heart over i i i've grown to get over his ugly shooting mechanics and just live with it granted i still think it could be a problem at the next level. I think he's still better than I ever could have expected him to be as a shooter. And his passing, as everybody knows, is just outrageous. One of the best passing abilities we've seen.

High basketball IQ. Balls and balls ridiculous as a passer. You know, Titus is down on all West Coast teams because he's in the Midwest and they just look down on West Coast basketball but I will say this about Lonzo and this is like the rarest point you can get to

as a basketball player and the fact that he did it during the course of a college season is amazing to me the way he plays is contagious and I really think like from by the from what i saw by the end of the of the season all those ucla guys were looking to make the extra pass or be cool and very unselfish and it's just it's because the way he plays and as you know titus when you're playing with somebody like that every day in practice you just start kind of emulating what

he does and i think that speaks a lot to who he is yeah ucla was not a good team last year and they added him and tj leaf is really good too um and he shouldn't be discounted but yeah it's not like they made you know like they got rid of a lot of guys and brought in a new class and all that kind of stuff they basically added like two guys to a not good team and they completely turned them into one of the best teams in the country like bird and magic the you know the two best passers of our lifetimes. I guess my lifetime. You guys, you got the tail end.

I saw Bird and Magic, yeah. But like McHale would make good passes with Larry Bird. That guy was a black hole. And, you know, like on the Lakers, you got guys like Worthy and Kareem. Like those guys would make – when you're around that three hours a day you're just mind starts drifting toward it and I can't I never thought that would work in college but it worked Lonzo Ball made Bryce Alford fun and which is impossible yeah like he's his coach's son that was shooting 30 times a game on a on shitty teams and you know like didn't really and then now like

Bryce Alford is is fun to watch and and you know so that's yeah it's like if the celtics get lonza if they have a chance to pick lonza or faults both of them are so fascinating with the team the celts already have both of them i think could play with isaiah and i think they would bring totally different things to the table but um tatum on duke is somebody that's really kind of emerged slash evolved over the last few weeks. O'Connor, you compared him to Danny Granger and a couple other people, but I really like the Danny Granger comparison.

Danny Granger was great. Before he got hurt, he was 25-26 a night. Do you think Tatum could be 25-26 a night in the NBA? Yeah, I think he could be. And I think, you know, over the past two, three weeks or so, we've definitely seen that at the beginning of the year with Tatum. I mean, he was injured at the start of the season. He had to integrate himself into Duke's system. It's not like they made him the guy right away. He kind of had to find his own way. And I think with that first impression, he kind of soured in a lot of people's eyes. But at this point, I'm kind of had to find his own way. And I think with that first impression, he kind of soured in a lot of people's eyes.

But at this point, I'm kind of just forgetting about that just because of the circumstances he had to deal with. And I think the guy we're seeing now is kind of actually who he is. Who he is and will he carry that on through the tournament? We'll see. I just see a guy like with Granger, he can create his shot any way he can. I think Granger developed. Granger was a great shooter in the NBA,

but if you look at his early college numbers, he wasn't a great shooter then either. Tatum has a ways to go, but I think his shooting is easily projectable. What about my dude Malik Monk? Are you still as high on him, Bill? Yeah. I am convinced that you talked about how Duke had a team that, although they had the wrong pieces,

but a lot of talent and it didn't quite fit together. I just want to see Malik Monk with the ball. And I know Fox played well in the tournament. Fox is very good. I get it. He's very good. I get it. He's left-handed too.

Don't you love left-handers? I do. I also like point guards that can shoot and i'm not convinced you can shoot yeah you can't really shoot when i watch monk i just feel like he'd be unstoppable if you revolve the offense around him and i i know we'll probably see it at the next level in some form but there's been there's been halves that he had this season that rank way way way up there you're talking like 30 points and a half like it doesn't happen in college i'll step in and say you haven't seen

every half of his though no he disappeared yeah no he does i've seen it and it's not it is not calipari's fault or fox's fault it's it's monk's fault and and and my other concern with him is when he's not making shots he kind of shuts down on every other facet of the game. He gets stand in the corner-itis. I noticed. I was on the SEC network watching them play shitty teams, kind of hoping he'd get hot. Where do you stand, O'Connor?

I mean, I'm with Titus in the sense that when he's not scoring, what else does he do for you? But at the same time, to kind of play devil's advocate to that, you could have said the same thing about Devin Booker in college, too, because he didn't run any points. So if Monk wasn't with Fox, maybe when he wasn't scoring, he would be taking on more of that playmaking role.

I think he does have more of that ability than he's actually shown, because as we've seen with a lot of Kentucky guys, they don't always get the opportunity because there's so many good players on those teams. Fox is the point guard, so Monk isn't going to have the opportunity to do that. I think it's there for him. But at the same time, to that point, I still do have questions about what else he does

when he's not scoring from the outside because he doesn't make it up on the defensive end either. Well, we live in an NBA world where Houston is going to average 43s a game this season. And I think there's like eight or nine other teams that are averaging 30. I know he can do that. Not to mention the heat check part of it. It'll be interesting to see where he goes because, you know, as we said, this draft's loaded. And Tatum versus Jackson is going to be the three or four spot, right? You like Jackson a little bit more, right, Tennis? I like Jackson. I like them both. It's hard. drafts loaded and tatum versus jackson is going to be the three or four spot right who do you like

jackson a little bit more right i like jackson i like them both i it's it's hard i i like tatum actually probably more as a college guy i think i like jackson jackson seems more versatile to me but again this is like going back to like how i watch the sport right it's not i'm not i know i'm tainting i'm tainting your love right now i I don't really project to the league, but the reason I like Jackson more, if I do, which I'm starting to kind of love Tatum, how he's been playing, is just that Jackson's sort of changed completely how Kansas plays.

He's made Bill Self go to a four-guard lineup, which is just crazy to hear myself say that out loud because Bill Self is just like his old school inside-outside coach. So the fact that Jackson's guarding big dudes myself say that out loud because bill self is just like his old school uh inside outside coach so um the fact that jackson's guarding big dudes and then bring stepping out and hitting threes and slashing and all that kind of stuff like that stands out he's got a he's got a weird looking jump shot too though well let me ask you the important question since you've played basketball

your entire life who would you rather play with definitely you're a pickup definitely jackson who would you rather play with monk or fox oh monk because i because i get monk i feel like monk is like better like a much better version of what i am as a player so i get him i would totally understand like like he'd hit a couple and i'd be like okay we have to get this man the ball that's my pet when you're when you hit when you're playing pickup and a dude's hit like two or three in a row and he doesn't shoot it the next time down you should never be able to play in those games again like whoever organizes the game should kick your ass out i was at my son's nine-year-old basketball game he they were in the semifinals then they lost in the finals

and there's this kid on his team who just got hot and it's it's funny how the heat check can happen at any level and this kid got hot and he made like eight straight baskets over the course of like five minutes and i just just screamed out, heat check! And everybody thought I was an insane person. Nobody got it. It went over the heads of all the California moms. They were like, why is this person yelling heat check? Kevin, who do you like more, Tatum or Jackson?

I'm kind of Tatum slightly over Jackson right now, but in many ways it's a coin flip and largely dependent on the situation. I think Tatum has higher potential as a go-to scorer, but at the same time Jackson has shown flashes. He can pull off step-back jumpers and create space for himself. I just see Tatum as the better shooter, and that's a big thing for me. I like both of them a lot, though. They're 3, 4, 4, 5, definitely in the big thing for me. I like both of them a lot though. They're three, four, four, five.

Definitely in the top five for me. I could also see Tatum being good and Coach K taking an inordinate amount of credit for it. Yeah. You know, when he's on the Olympic team, Coach K, who will never leave the Olympic team, like I knew with Jason during the three weeks I coached him when I didn't have back surgery.

He's going to leave the Olympic team if they lose a game in pool play. It's time for have back surgery. He's going to leave the Olympic team if they lose a game in pool play. It's time for another back surgery. Who's your most underrated player? That was funny. Who is your most underrated player in the tournament who's going to become

more of a household name for casual college basketball fans who love the NBA and are scouting basically right now? Does this need to be a guy on a team that's going to make a run, or can they lose in the first round? Give me both. Okay, a guy who's going to lose in the first round, Justin Patton from Creighton.

I like him a lot, especially in a year without a lot of big men. He hasn't shot a lot of threes, but he has some touch from outside. He's explosive at the rim, so I think you put him in a four-out offense and let him be a rim runner. He can do that. He's super raw defensively, but he's shown a lot of flashes on that end. I think he's going to really, really impress people. And then with a team that might make a run,

maybe Miles Bridges if michigan state wins a game or two i think because he's such a highlight reel waiting to happen with his dunks but he also does more than that like he's he's a way better shooter than i ever expected him to be i don't know if they've tweaked his mechanics this year but he's not a great shooter but he's definitely above average at least i i think i think he's a guy that could really maybe rise up from the late lottery into the mid-lottery range if Michigan State makes a run, which I'm not quite sure if they will, but I wouldn't rule them out at all. And Luke Kennard's already surging, right?

Oh, Luke's awesome, yeah. I have him ranked 14th, so I think he's late 20th in a lot of people's eyes. But I think that guy's awesome. His ability to score from each level think he's late 20th in a lot of people's eyes, but I think that guy's awesome. His ability to score from each level, he's developed his handle. I think he can run a little bit of combo guard in the NBA. I don't see him failing at all, despite

his lack of athleticism. Tate just said that he's going to go back to Duke next year because he's a coward, and that's what Duke people do. They're just all cowards. He's going to stay there five years. year because he's a coward, and that's what Duke people do. They're just all cowards. He's going to stay there five years. Oh, no, now he's saying Coach K won't let him go. Why do you think Grayson's there?

Coach K, yeah. He's going to guilt trip him this day. Can I answer that? Yeah. Because I also want to bring up a name that I'm just curious to talk to NBA people about is Caleb Swanigan at Purdue. You know I like this guy. Part of the reason he's gonna i think people who watch college basketball obviously know who he is he's he's one of the two or three best players in the country this year uh but if you don't and you start watching the tournament

the matchups that purdue has lined up for them where they'll play vermont in the first round and probably iowa state and then maybe kansas in the sweet 16 like that all those teams do not have a guy that have they have zero answer for Swanigan and that doesn't mean Purdue is going to like win these games or whatever because they have a lot of flaws themselves but like it's set up for Swanigan to just have like 20-20 nights every single night in the tournament if they go on a run they're going to be a lot of people getting excited about him but beyond that like I know what his flaws are but I'm just curious what his – because I think coming into the season, he wasn't even on anybody's. And if he was, he was like a late second rounder.

But now he's kind of becoming – I think he's a first rounder, right? Oh, definitely. What do you think, Cassie? I don't know if he's a first rounder, but he's close. Really? And, like, one thing that I've had a hard time, you know, kind of getting over was at the NBA Combine scrimmages last year,

he looked really, really bad. It was a wake-up call for him. And I think, in a sense, maybe that's why he's taken such a leap as a player. His body's better. He looks like he's playing more intensely. He's polished his already good skills. So I definitely think he's an NBA player. I still

view him as a mid-first round pick, maybe a late first round pick. I do like him quite a lot, though. Especially after last year's nightmare at the Combine, the jump he's made has been really impressive. He's terrible defensively. Yeah, I was going to say that. We were talking about it last night, and I was saying

if he's playing the five on an NBA team, all they're going to do is try to get him in a screen and roll where he has to go with the other guy, and now all of a sudden he's got to guard a point guard. But I also feel like I should mention he's not terrible defensively in the way that a lot of guys that are terrible defensively are bad. He tries really hard. He's got a great work ethic. He's just not the foot speed and that sort of stuff.

That's a start for a lot of guys, though, having that work ethic. They can get by as long as they're working hard and hitting their rotation. If the Celtics, if they have any pick between 27 and 37 with whatever happens with this draft and they don't take him, I'm going to get really upset. Because that guy's an NBA player. It's like hair on the Rockets now. But in Louisville, it's like, I know what that guy is. He's an NBA player like it's like Harold on the Rockets now but in Louisville it's like I know what that guy is he's an energy

rebounder that guy's gonna go in the NBA and he's gonna be an energy rebounder who dunks alley-oops every once in a while I know what Swanigan is like he's gonna come in you'll be able to throw him the ball in your second unit and he could be like Enos Cantor for five minutes just get a couple baskets Hickley defensively and that's fine

Harold's way more explosive though than Flanagan I'm not comparing them as players I'm just saying like there's certain guys where you just look at them and you go oh I know what that guy is like could Swanigan be like taller Carl Landry

for three years as a pro like yeah of course he can yeah I'd be shocked if Swanigan doesn't have a long pro career. It's just a matter of like how good he'll actually be in that career. And he plays for like 16s. Yeah, right. But he's just banging around.

He has a couple moments. Like, oh, that guy from Purdue. I like that guy. But, you know, if you're picking 28th, it's the kind of guy like the Spurs would take. They would go, oh, of course. They know exactly what to do. Yeah.

Ugh. Yeah. Yes. Hey, Titus. Yeah. What's your take on evans on oklahoma state um i haven't watched a ton of them because i their their team is not that great because they don't play any defense but um i i like what i see i mean the guys the guy scores and passes well and like all that kind of stuff. Tate and I just did a podcast earlier today, and I called him the best point guard in the country that never makes the best point guard in the country list.

Like he's the – if that makes any sense to anybody listening. Yeah, I really like him. That's going to be a great – By the way, for all the casual fans listening, that first-round game with Michigan and Oklahoma State is the first round game to watch that is going to be awesome with with evans versus derrick walton and just those two teams get up and down and score a lot and all that kind of stuff so but yeah i don't

know like i haven't i can't answer that like you want me to i guess because i don't i haven't really picked apart oklahoma state that much so on draft Draft Express right now, they have De'Aaron Fox as the fifth pick over Dennis Smith. We have not done a ringer. When's our next ringer mock draft? Is that coming up soon, KOC? I think we're supposed to do a big board either this Friday or next Friday.

All right. Who's the guy that... That seems high for a point guard that can't shoot. I know he's an incredible athlete, but there's so many point guards in the NBA. It's much harder to find somebody like Markkinen than it is to find a Fox. I'm just curious.

O'Connor, who's the guy that you're high on and no one else is, and you're just like, screw it, I'm going to my grave saying this guy's good? It might be Luke Kennard. Luke Kennard? I'm right there with you.

13th or 14th. And, like, everybody has him, like, late 20s. And I'm like, dude, he's like a borderline lottery pick at least. He's so skilled. So it might be him. Yeah. But you guys both think, like, John Collins and Justin Patton are, like, 15 and 16 on these mock drafts.

Like, in other years, those are top 10 picks, right? I would think so, yeah. KOC? I think so because the top is so stacked. There's like nine guys who you can make a case for that are deserving to be in the top four or five. And meanwhile, poor Ivan. Like if they had their team needs or philosophy.

Poor Ivan Robb could have come out last year. It would have been like the 13th, somewhere between 10 and 13, I think. And now he's in the 20s. Because the longer you stay in college, the more they just stare at you and go, What's wrong with you? Well, I didn't like that game. And they just pick you apart. You're almost better doing the Kyrie Irving and playing 10 games.

Who is the best guy that came back and actually improved his stock? Not Grayson Allen. Yeah, not Grayson Allen. Yeah, not Grayson Allen. No, it's not great. Like a guy who was like maybe lottery or fringe lottery and was like, you know what, I'm going to come back so I can be top 10 lock or top five. Actually, that doesn't ever happen, does it? I mean, allegedly they stay for the education.

I don't know how that's going to work out for them. But KOC, do you have a pick for us? For? For the tournament? Is there a team you feel strongly about? Or are you just looking at players only? Yeah. I'm all about Duke this year.

Sorry, Tate. Duke's my team. I think they can beat you in so many different ways. Oh, man. I think Tatum's on a roll right now. I think Kennard's going to stay hot. I think Grayson Allen's a little bit better than he's been this year. I'm going with Duke.

So here's the thing with Kentucky. The Fox thing, if he just gets hot, and now he's the alpha dog in that team but monk is now positioned as this totally overqualified number two who at any time can get in a heat check or if things go wrong he can take over for a half that's a pretty enticing combo for to for college the thing about monk he's not gonna not get his like he's not it's not like fox is gonna be the guy and monks be like okay you be the guy like he's still gonna get his up and so he's you know if the scenario you're saying plays out yeah kentucky is is nuts you know why i'm not picking kentucky though

because coach cow's a terrible game coach he is kentucky basketball uh matt jones everybody you know i love you guys you know i i support bookie to the death. Calipari's not a good game coach. He's just not. Nobody's ever been like, wow. Calipari pulled all the strings in that one. They were losing it. Calipari versus Brad Stevens during the Butler era would have been one of the biggest mismatches of all time.

I'm just going to nod my head. Again, Kentucky fans. It's fine. He's a great recruiter yeah he's awesome as a game coach he's really really really spotty he just is what was the year what was the final they when they made the finals that one year was one of the years where the guys were underneath the court which i always hate when they have oh the race court and that the race court and the guys are sitting underneath and it was like i honestly felt like he panicked in the last five minutes.

Like he gets this look on his face. They lost the 2014 title game to UConn. Who was that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, UConn beat him. That's what it was. He got outcoached by Kevin Olley, which is all that. He got outcoached by Kevin Olley.

And he had a look on his face of like, like he was kind of overwhelmed by the moment. And the thing I've noticed with him, and maybe this will fade as he gets older, but in moments of real adversity, he looks tense. Like he doesn't look like I'm the calm guy. Like he actually, like the pressure, you can see it. And I always wonder if that transfers to his players.

In Cal's defense? Titus is terrified right now. I'm not terrified. You don't want to mess with the Kentucky people. I'm saying in Cal's defense, he's not trying to win games. He's trying to get guys to the league. He's trying to be a media mogul and get his guys to the league. That's all he's doing.

He should run more pick and roll then. That's the part. I mean, you have Bam and you have two guards who get to the room whenever they want. I can't even believe they have an offense. I would just run pick and roll the entire time. Yeah. The worst to me was the 2015 team that was undefeated. And he was doing the platoon thing all season.

Yeah. Just the hubris with that where he's just like, no, we're going to do this. It's going to work. I'm going to show you. And they play Wisconsin in the Final Four. And he still had that attitude of just like, no, Wisconsin needs to adjust to me. My team's undefeated.

And I was like, Wisconsin's pretty damn good. You should probably adjust to them. He's like, no, I don't need to do that. I'm just going to do my thing. And then they lost, and yeah, that was awful. Well, before the Kentucky fans get mad, I just want to point out that Rick Pitino is probably my number one least favorite person in sports.

It's either him or Roger Clements. You'd play for Rick Pitino, though. I can't stand Rick Pitino. I would never do anything for Rick Pitino. I wouldn't loan him my last $5 if he needed it. Just one recruiting trip, you'd play for him. No way. No way.

That guy destroyed the Celtics. I will never forgive him. Oh, that's true. He traded Chauncey Billups after 50 games. He was a snake oil salesman. I remember this. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

And his team hated him. Yeah, he's bad. And he came with all this bullshit, and he gave this big lecture about, Bird and McHale and Parrish aren't walking through that door. I was like, fuck you, dude. I hate that guy. You know Patino's bad because you can make fun of him all you want and call him a sleazeball and stuff, and Louisville fans are just like, fuck you, dude. I hate that guy. You know Patino's bad because you can make fun of him all you want and call him a sleazeball and stuff.

And Louisville fans are just like, yeah, you're probably right. But he wins games. We like him all right. I hate Patino. They don't defend him. I don't really hate anybody. I'm talking like sports hate. I sports hate Patino so much that I also root against his son.

And I'm going to be rooting against him in round one. Like anybody related to him I root against. I just can't stand that guy. anyway i'm i'm pro kentucky i just i i've never really watched kentucky and been impressed by the coaching but as we talked about earlier it's not like there's a lot of rocket science coach no scientist coaches that's one of the things i'd say that nba fans kind of over value or overemphasize when watching college basketball that like these guys are great coaches and these guys aren't and like that's definitely a thing like there are good coaches and bad coaches but it's not like yeah coaches very rarely win games in

college basketball by being just like so much smarter than the other guy and then there's Brad Stevens coaches can lose games in college basketball but they very rarely are like yeah and then there's Brad Stevens. Brad Stevens, you would have been a second round draft pick if you played for Brad Stevens. He would have been like, listen, this is what Titus does well. Let's just get him off screens. It's going to go great. All right, KOC, enjoy the tournament.

I look forward to reading your next ringer. Big board. What is it? What are we up to? 4.0? Something like that? I think 5.0 is next. 5.0. Alright. Did you get nailed by the Blizzard, by the way? It wasn't as bad as anybody expected it to be. But, I mean, it's still a pain in the ass. Oh. It's not so bad.

So is the John Calipari Blizzards? It's a lot of fuss, and it turned out in the huge moment it didn't totally come through. All right. Thanks, KFC. Pretty much. Hey, thanks, guys. All right, Titus, parting shots?

Yeah, parting shots. Duke, hot team, most talented team, team everyone's going to pick. Carolina is kind of like the – Carolina is the pick that everyone's going to make that they think they're smarter than – because everyone's going to do Duke, so the people are like, actually, I know what to do here. I'm going to do Carolina.

That's kind of the pick. I would say Gonzaga is better than probably every single person listening to this thinks they are. I'm not saying they're going to win. I'm not saying they're going to the Final Four. I'm just saying Gonzaga is actually very good. If there's a one seed I don't really trust, it would probably be Kansas. Yeah, I really like Louisville louisville's a good team i like kentucky kentucky's a good team so some of those yeah but guard guards and defense that's my parting shot if you're looking for a champion look at guards and defense and on the uh teed up podcast on ringer university you guys are

going to be going with little micro pods yeah at the end of each night right you're in la that's why you're here that's why i'm here i came out here the time zone difference helps out to miss it yeah we're excited to miss the weather and yeah the games uh see when i when i was in college way back when in the 80s and early 90s they always had the late late game that was freaking awesome the it was like the west coast it started at like 11 at night or 10 you know and so you'd have to stay up for it but in college it was the best because there was some game on like 1 30 in the morning um they don't really do that as much anymore i think the latest what's the latest the games go here tate like it's like nine o'clock here yeah hey one thing one thing we do need to talk about before I go is Gus Johnson.

Yeah. Just general ideas, general thoughts. So I put this together. You'll appreciate this, that the last big Gus Johnson March Madness moment we got was Isaiah Thomas hitting the shot to beat Arizona in the Pac-12, Pac-10 tournament. Is that true? Yeah. I don't know if you remember it.

The game was tied, and Gus may have known that that was his last call because he didn't wait for the shot to go in. It was like, 20 seconds. Isaiah has the ball. Here we go. He just did that the whole time. Then he hit the shot. What year was that, Tate?

2011? Yeah, 2011. So it's been six years um i don't know i remember watching that game and being super excited about it and then being in disbelief when he dropped to number 60 in the draft but i don't know what we do with gus johnson yeah i know that america wants him we want him i i know if that if there was a sports czar the sports are like the main things he would he tried he'd try to fix college sports. He'd try to fix taxpayers paying for stadiums.

He'd try to fix boxing. But on a Thursday in July when things kind of calmed down, he'd turn his attention to Gus Johnson for one day and be like, all right, how do we fix this? Right. Can you loan him over for two weeks? There's no practical reason why CBS can't just use him for two weeks. They're using all these... It's Jim Nance.

It's the, yeah. Jim Nance didn't like him. Jim Nance didn't like that Gus was better than him. That's what it was. That is a fascinating theory that I'm so jealous I never thought of. So you think Jim Nance whacked him? Yeah.

Gus Johnson was a rising star and Jim Nance said, no, I'm the guy. This is Jim Nance season. We got the Masters, we got the AFC Championship sometimes the Super Bowl we got the March Madness and the yeah that's like this is Jim Nance's from July to April it's Jim Nance time so you think he's at like his kid's birthday party and some parent comes up to him be like hey man I love that Gus Johnson yeah and Jim Nance is like what a moment what a bad moment for me and then just took it personally

i could i could see that i like that theory yeah so we got to find a way it's like either he goes or i go yeah right but the mistake was they should have kept ghost johnson absolutely but nance has got the masters to do the football to do with phil sims they they provide a lot of great commentary on that together as we know can i throw out can i throw out uh he's not gus johnson yeah i'm not putting them in the same sentence it would be like comparing tom chambers to larry bird but i do think harlan is good harland's very i like having harlan on these college games and i feel feel like Gus's corner is represented at least. It's not the same. Harlan's so good, it's almost bad,

because then it reminds you that he's not Gus. Right. He's great, and then you're like, oh, but he's not that one guy. Yeah, but Harlan's great. The thing that Gus has, even when he does the games now occasionally, is just like you want the game to be tight with 30 seconds left. And as you said, like his voice will start, 20 seconds to go! And he's already ready to shoot his squad. He can't wait.

It's so amazing if you go back and look at like – if you think of an NCAA tournament moment, that was awesome. Like this just happened to me the other day. We were prepping for our podcast talking about Vermont, who's back in the tournament, and they beat Syracuse in 05 on an insane – Remember that. Yeah. And so we're like going back,

trying to relive the moment and it's always Gus Johnson calling it no matter what the moment is. It always seems to be Gus. He's like a magnet. Yeah. Yeah. Now you made me sad. I know.

I didn't mean to do that. I just wanted to, I wanted to get that out there. I don't want people to forget about Gus. We need to keep this going where we're trying to get Gus back. Let's make this our corner after this tournament. Yeah. We can bring him back.

We gotta find a way to do it. So the TDOT podcast is on our Ringer University podcast feed, and you guys will be on there with these little micropods every day throughout the thing. We've already put up some good stuff on there, too. Yeah, we've been having fun. So if you want to catch up, 68 teams in 68 minutes. Yeah, we did that today.

We did a little scouting report, all 68 teams. You want a little one-minute scouting report for that, and then you're also writing for the Ringer, too. I'm doing that, yeah. What'd you write this week? You did a little tournament? Just a little bracket reaction. Little teams that got screwed, teams that didn't.

All right. Mike Titus. Good to have you in person. We did it. I'm sorry the baby doll doesn't want to do your next book or any book. All right. That's it. Thanks to SeatGeek.

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in 22 months. That's the previous BS podcast and we have a professional sports owner coming up on the next one. We have one more podcast this week. I won't tell you who the owner is. Until then. our podcast this week. I won't tell you the owners.