The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 190: Sports Movie Hall of Fame: 'Blue Chips' With Mark Titus and Chris Ryan

Episode Date: March 21, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons brings on Mark Titus and Chris Ryan to induct 'Blue Chips' into the Sports Movie Hall of Fame. Topics include: the most ridiculous moments (5:00), Nick Nolte's intense coaching style (14:00), Bob Knight's mystique (19:00), point-shaving scare tactics (23:00), Shaq's final college game (30:00), the player cameos (35:00), rebooting 'Blue Chips' (42:00), post-retirement Larry Bird (47:00), and the best college basketball movies (53:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Try it out. Download the SeatGeek app today or go right to SeatGeek.com. We are also brought to you by the Ringer NFL Show. That's where you can find our new podcast, Weekly GM Street. That is hosted by the ringers, Michael Lombardi with Tate Frazier,

the producer for this podcast, as well as the cohost of teed up on ringer university. I highly recommend this pod every week. Lombardi breaks down, um, all the latest subplots, plots, replots,

double plots, whatever you want. And also gives you a little football knowledge as well. You can hear it on the Ringer NFL show. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so we had Mark Titus in town last week. We have done four episodes of the sports movie Hall of Fame, and this is the fifth.

It is Blue Chips. We thought it was topical because it is March Madness. I'm not positive it's a Hall of Famer, but it is March Madness. I'm not positive it's a Hall of Famer, but it is March Madness. And for God's sakes, Young Shaq is in it. So here you go, Blue Chips. If you haven't seen this movie, it stars Shaquille O'Neal, Penny Hardaway, Nick Nolte.

There's a cameo by Larry Bird. There's just a lot going on. I highly recommend it as a bizarre mid-90s watchable sports movie or something to watch for the 15th time if you've seen it for the last 25 years. Anyway, here you go. Blue Chips, Sports Movie Hall of Fame, Volume 5. Let's do it. Sports Movie Hall of Fame, Volume 5. We have done White Men Can't Jump, Any Given Sunday,

Moneyball, Jerry Maguire. Every time Chris Ryan and I have been here, we occasionally have a special guest. We have one today, Mark Titus. I'm a friend of the program. Yes. Friend of the program. The real life inspiration for Ricky Rowe, even though you were like a baby when the movie came out. Blue Chips, we thought we would do it because it's March madness. And I, you know, I was at a college when this movie came out, but I remember reading about

it, hearing about that. It was happening and it came out in February, 1994. And the big thing, there were two things that stood out. One was that they were really playing the games. This was like, they were writing about this as it was happening. They were like, it was William Friedkin, the director of the exorcist some other stuff french connection french connection i got some freaking trivia for you coming up oh good yes yeah oh yeah so big thing was oh yeah basketball movies they're too scripted they're too choreographed he's gonna

let these dudes play and then it was like it's not just the guys in the game but it's also they got all these other college players so we'll talk about that in a second and jack and penny were in it was the other wrinkle and it was supposed to be this unflinching look at the ncaa so there was a lot of buzz when this movie came out and i remember it came out in like the right kind of weekend it was like a month before march madness there's real excitement for it and i and it kind of fizzled roger ebert liked it though I remember. Not surprising. So of all the movies we've done for this

I was wondering why this one I hadn't really thought about in a long time. Hadn't rewatched it a lot. This is the one that actually has the most contempt for its subject. Like I don't think this movie likes college basketball at all. It definitely doesn't. No. Unflinching. It does not. So it's kind of weird because even in any given Sunday where those those guys are emotionally paralyzed drug addict abusive

maniacs oliver stone clearly thinks football players are gods yeah but in this movie i mean like the ron shelton stuff you need ron shelton wrote and directed white man can't jump he obviously loves basketball but it is not a movie that is is like affectionate towards its subject matter at all that was another part of the buzz i forgot about that ron shelton because it was coming up bull Durham white men can't jump it's like now he's tackling college basketball and i think for i don't know what who was running the ncaa but they allowed the uniforms to be used which i think i don't think that'll ever happen again i can't believe bob knight agreed bob knight's in it and then i think at the last second they changed it from ncaa to like ncsa or something like that but all right titus you played basketball in college at ohio

state what was the single most ridiculous thing that happened in this movie for you it all kind of felt so i i just got done watching it and i kind of felt like i imagine neil degrasse tyson feels when he watches every movie he watches where he's like where he's well actually you know for every scene and yeah picking out the stars it's it's so close to being accurate but it's not there it's like the uncanny valley or of of college basketball where it's like there. It's like the uncanny valley of college basketball where it's like, I see where you're trying to make this, but it's so far off that it all was comical to me. The one scene that stood out the most to me

is Butch McCray comes in and says he's homesick, and he says, Coach, I can't run the motion offense. And me and Tate looked at each other like, who can't run the motion offense? It's a motion offense. He wants to play 1-4. Yeah, he wants to run the motion offense. And me and Tate looked at each other like, who can't run the motion offense? It's a motion offense. He wants to play 1-4. Yeah, he wants to play 1-4. So what's 1-4?

That's basically Russell Westbrook's offense in OKC right now? Yeah, that's give me the ball and give everybody out of the way. It's the early verbal drive. There's stuff like that where the movie thinks it's so smart, and like you said, it wants to be authentic, and it wants to be, but then, I would almost rather just be super campy and not try to do that, because it's taking itself so seriously. it wants to be but then i would almost rather just be like super campy and just like and and

not try to do that because it's it's taking itself so seriously like hey we have the most authentic basketball movie and then basketball people are like actually no you don't at all this is this is way also the concept of not really being able to figure out how to use butch mccray played by penny hardaway who was like one of the most perfect basketball player bodies slash talents ever is like i don't know we can't fit slash talents ever. He's like, I don't know. We can't fit him into our motion office. I'm pretty sure he could have fit in any office. This guy was way more gifted than any other player.

So the concept or the plot of Blue Chips, Pete Bell, just an unabashed Bob Knight ripoff, which made it really weird that Knight's in the last scene because it's like... But is it set in... He's coaching in... Western is supposed to's coaching in western he's coaching western university is that supposed to be ucla this was another this was another gripe i have is that they didn't just sell out and make it indiana because they based the guy off bob knight they have the french lick scene they filmed the thing in indiana the gym that they filmed it in is a high school in indiana like about an hour north

of uh indianapolis, this rural high school. And then they sell out and make the school be on the West Coast. And I'm thinking, why not just make the school Indiana? It's funny to watch it now with the Ball Brothers all going to UCLA, and they're like, oh, man, we just can't get guys to come to Los Angeles. It's like UCLA has never not had guys. Right. So that one-on-one with Robbie Benson, I think that one was called Big State or something like that,

and that was also set in LA. But I was like, when they don't just use, they're not allowed to use the college's name. So Pete Bell is trying to do things the right way, and he's starting to lose in the boosters and the presser. So now he finally decides maybe it's time. He's going to let JT Walsh get his hands on his program. Is this your favorite jt

walsh performance of all time no my favorite is by far a few good men okay so lieutenant markinson yeah what about you titus i i would say it's my i mean i'm jt walsh passed away probably before i got to really enjoy him and i guess that's kind of what makes this movie interesting maybe i'm jumping ahead too far but i watched this way after the fact like when i was seven years old when this movie came out so i was my dad was like no you're not watching this they say bad words or whatever so i had to wait till later and when i watched it it felt like well duh like what's the point of this movie you're trying to expose that this is how the ncaa is and it's like well yeah i know this already people really knew in 1992

you guys like when it came out was this like a whoa that's how that's how the NCAA is. And it's like, well, yeah, I know this already. I don't think people really knew in 1992. So I'm asking you guys, when it came out, was this like a, whoa, that's how the college basketball really is? I think that's what they were going for. Yeah, and there have been a couple of big sanctions around then. If I'm trying to remember. Well, I mean, you had point shaving scandals in the 80s. Yeah, and you also, I think that's after Cal's UMass team with Canby. No, no, that was after this.

That was after? Yeah, that was after. There have been some big programsby no no that was after that was after yeah yeah that was there have been some there have been some big programs it was UNLV was the big one which is hilarious because Tarkanian's in the movie and he's he's recruiting Butch McRae and he said something they have the scene where like Nick Nolte goes up and and Tarkanian's like yeah I don't think we can get him in academically right yeah that's probably the funniest part to me was Tarkanian saying he can't get someone in academically you know actually my favorite performance in this movie is patino as richard in the really convincing like richard but just like really good at like delivering those like great call ref you're a great official right so this was 94 they're making a 93 i gotta say

like we didn't have the internet back then unless sports illustrated did like a big piece about the ncaa for something nothing really happened like espn was and they probably had outside the lines back then but i don't feel like espn was breaking yeah journalism like they did like so i mean i didn't know anything like i remember reading the fab five book by mitch album and finding out stuff in that and being like, wow, these guys can barely pay for their McDonald's and they're selling their jersey. So I do think there was some naivete

back then. Now it seems ridiculous. Right, that's what I mean. As I watch it now, and even when I first watched it, I was like, well, duh, of course. I mean, it's a cool movie, I guess, but you're not really telling us

anything we don't know. Is the booster a hero to you or a villain? Well, my favorite part about the booster was when they have the confrontation and he tells Coach Bell, he's like, I didn't break any laws. You're the one who's breaking the NCAA laws. And you're like, wow, that's a great point. He didn't break any laws. And then like two seconds later, he says, I fixed that one game. And you're like, wait a second. he didn't break any laws and then like two seconds later he says i fixed that one game but he has that like much more the straight there's a good question because like he's very

much set up as the villain but there's that scene where he's like confronts him and he's like you you have a multi-year contract and a shoe deal that makes these kids into a walking billboard that's and i you know these kids deserve this money basically yeah he says god damn it coach we owe this kid these kids yeah yeah but even the way you're saying that is not he's like saying he's got like spittle and like angry yeah and he's like but that's that's the tension in this movie i mean this is a movie that basically at every point where you're expecting it to go into a sports trope that you would you know that makes you feel good the reason you re-watch these movies ultimately is to feel good about these teams i mean the opening scene it's just like

nick nolte's like you make me sick right you know for like five minutes you're just like is this scene gonna end he's just like i i can't believe i have to watch you guys right and it's like full on jack from 48 hours just like seven day hangover nick Nolte I feel like that would have saved this movie and made it a real classic if it was actually Jack Cates from 48 Hours I don't know what you're looking at racial slurs just going totally over the line

but have you watched 48 Hours recently by the way? I sure have every year it ages worse and this is my favorite movie of all time. And every year I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe I love Jack Cates. Like he was a family member. He's the worst guy.

Anyway, so there's a tension with the booster who when they made this movie, the booster is like a bad guy. And now you watch it and you look at it and you go, yeah, the booster had a point, man. Butch McCray got a house and his mom got a job. Ricky Rowe got a tractor. My question is, like, what is his motivation? And the obvious answer is he wants to see his alma mater or his favorite team be good. But is that really – and what's the motivation for all the boosters that do this? Are they just that rich?

It worked in football. When you see rich people and they're, like, buying all this art, I'm just like, why? Like, why are you – They don't know what to do. Yeah mean it's like the same thing with that's a really good question is like i don't really even understand boosters like why would you spend that much money it's like what do you have to gain from it it's it's a way worse version of like youth sports parents yeah like the the people that i see now because my kids play youth sports like some of the most comical versions of them, but now give them like, you know,

hundreds of billions of dollars or millions of dollars. Is there some sort of psychological thing where they think that they're a part of the team and that's what it is? And you see that with like the college football teams a lot where it's like all of a sudden, I'm not like an expert, but like Houston got really good over the last five years. And one of the reasons is like the guy who like funds Houston's athletics program is like this oil billionaire, right? Well, the famous guy at UCLA was Sam Gilbert. He was like the guy who, by all accounts, was John Wooden's guardian angel.

I mean, when Tate is the CEO of the Ringer someday and he's just raking in cash. Donating money back to UNC. Yeah, you don't think he's gonna destroy UNC's you don't think Tate's gonna pay dudes under the table at UNC he would do it right now Tate you would you'd I would have paid for Wiggins he would have paid for Wiggins but yeah so the Pete Bell character I'm not ever sure I like in this movie and I think that's the fatal there's the fatal. There's two fatal flaws from a sports movie standpoint.

One is that I don't know who the hero is. I think it's supposed to be Pete Bell because he goes through it. He sells out. He sells out with the booster. And then they win the big game. But it's no chill scene. It's very anti-chill scene-y. They don't do a good job with the last play.

I don't even really know what the last play was. It was also a regular season game. It wasn't March Madness or anything like that. Then he gives this crazy press conference and his career's over. I'm supposed to be like, great job, coach. You don't have a job anymore and you've totally embarrassed these kids you recruited.

Good luck. There's a very tacked on redemption of him showing a kid on a playground how to shoot a jumper. That just feels like it was like, we've got to put one bumper on here. Because it's just also like, when would any, like, even in the 90s, like, old men showing up on playgrounds at night to show guys how to shoot jumpers. And little kids out on a playground at 10 at night, like, playing pick up in the dark. And night like playing and it's like oh cool yeah show me how to shoot a jumper with one hand that's great yeah that's a little weird all right would you want to play for nick bell t titus uh i i don't think so no uh that was another the whole p bell character was another thing that was so close to being accurate but not accurate that i would kind of was frustrated by it. Cause he was obviously a Bob Knight rip off,

but Knight wasn't the misconception about Knight was that he was just always yelling and screaming and always just like really angry and stuff. Knight was very even keeled for most of the time. He just was like, he would say things that were really harsh, but he'd say with a straight face and very calm about it. And then he would snap. And when he'd snap,

like that's when you get the chairs thrown and the, he's bringing a whip into press conferences and all that kind of stuff um so that was another thing i was like kind of frustrated is that this guy's just a maniac at every second of practice and games and his pep talks and all that kind of stuff and how did that appeal to bobby knight because he or maybe he just didn't read the script yeah yeah i mean probably not i mean did you ever play for ever play for a guy who was a real hard ass? Oh, yeah, I grew up in Indiana. Every coach in Indiana wanted to be Bob Knight. That was the thing.

I played for my high school coach. We would run sprints, and he'd say, we're running until you get it or whatever the time was, and we wouldn't get it because I would probably not be able to get it. And he'd be like, we're running it again. And every time you're running it, you're getting slower because you're getting more tired. And he was like, no, we're going to keep doing this until to get it and he'd be like we're running it again and you know like every time you're running it you're getting slower because you're getting more tired and he was like no we're gonna keep doing this until you get it i'm like coach just it's it's simple science like my body

is getting more tired as we're doing this and so i definitely played for coaches like that that was that was all over you should have faked like a harder rhythm or something but they always they did the thing where um i forget who the what the guy's name was, the kid who was shaving points early on, before he starts cheating. Tony. Yeah, Tony. So they do the thing where he's failing his TV class, and Coach Bell pulls him to the side, and they do the little thing, and he's like, how's class going?

How's life? How's that? And that's the scene that's supposed to say, like, I'm a hard ass, and I'm going to yell at you and scream at you, but at the end of the day, I'm going to make you a better man, and I'm your buddy, and all that kind of stuff, but at the end of the day, I'm going to make you a better man. I'm your buddy and all that kind of stuff. It's the thing that IU fans, when they talk about Bob Knight, they always circle back to that.

You might hate him, but his players loved him. He turned them into men and all that kind of stuff. He drove that player's girlfriend to Planned Parenthood that time. When he would grab that player's neck, he was doing it from a place of love. Wait, let me ask you do you think that this movie is different if the character is written the same but paul newman is playing pete bell i don't think it's a little old for that but like let's just say someone like with that kind of like because nick nolte is great actor but i don't know necessarily that nick

nolte especially at that point in his life is what you would call a charismatic actor there's been good Nolte and there's been bad Nolte I think this is somewhere in the middle and what's your favorite Nolte 40 48 hours 48 hours he's the best because I really just think that's very close to what he's probably like you know all the time but he was also like when when I was a kid he was a guy from rich man poor man and he was like gonna be the next huge a-list star and all this stuff. The next Ryan O'Neal. Yeah, but he basically became Ryan O'Neal. He became this hard-drinking type of guy.

So if you look at, you're looking at 94, right? So it's got to be somebody within that Bobby Knight kind of age. Paul Newman would have been too old. I mean, Pacino could have done it. Pacino would have been, but we saw Pacino as have done it pacino would have been but we saw pacino as a football coach i would have rather have had that nicholson might have been the right age range i don't know how that would have played he knows basketball but then it would just be like come on it's jack nicholson who wouldn't take his money it could have been just gene hackman i was gonna say gene hackman they ripped off hoosiers with the uh they had

ricky rowe doing the the farm shooting thing like he was Jimmy Chitwood. There was that scene. And then there was a – before the big game where they play Indiana, Coach Bell tells Ricky, he's like, those goals out there are 10 feet just like your goal back home in Indiana. I was like, this is a little too on the nose. What are we doing here? The Bobby Knight Hoosiers hangover was a real thing in 1994 because Hoosiers at that point, I don't think it's aged as well as, Hoosiers came out in 86. For the next 15 years, it's the number one sports movie. Any argument, what's the best sports movie?

It's Hoosiers. There might have been a case for The Natural for a little while, but then The Natural hasn't aged well either. And now I don't even, now I guess it depends on the era. Yeah, and then like Tate, what's your favorite sports movie ever? Hoosier State. Yeah, probably,

he got game. He got game. What's your favorite? Hoosiers. I'm from Indiana. Hoosiers, okay. So mine's still Hoosiers, but I can see the case

against it now. Yeah. I mean, also, Hoosiers has the exact opposite message of this movie, which is that basketball will redeem you and

this movie is like basketball ultimately will corrupt you unless you're playing in the most purest form of like high school basketball so it has the Hoosiers thing and it has the Bobby Knight halo because this is coming off season in the brink him coaching Steve Alford and all those guys and then Key Smart the title team and there was still bobby knight mystique so i think it took advantage of both by the way uh nick nolte apparently shadowed bob knight to like get the idea for months um the the season he shadowed him iu went to the final four and then they never he never bob knight never went to another final four the rest of his career after nolte put a curse on him you think that was it He never went back to the final four.

So that was another fun part of this movie is, you know, they use the real basketball players and it's this who's who of dudes from 93. Somehow Jalen and C-Web, not in there, but Cal Chaney, Bobby Hurley, Rick Fox, Rodney Rogers. It was a movie about paying players. Why would they put the Fab Five in there? The Fab Five didn't want to be in there Chris Mills

Alan Houston George Lynch, come on Tate Geert Hammock Travis Ford A lot of good ones So on the big screen watching Oh that guy, oh that guy It was one of those things

Ultimately the basketball Was fun to watch big screen watching oh that guy oh that guy and it was one of those things but um ultimately the basketball was fun to watch but it kind of felt like a sports center i actually wish they should have they probably should have choreographed it more yeah it wasn't enough either it's like if you're gonna have all these great guys and that's like kind of the hook of your movie is we have real scenes like give us more of that yeah it's kind of like why white man kind of works really well is even though it's obviously that it's obvious that uh wesley can't really play that well yeah all the slow-mo stuff and the fact that it's just a two-man game so they can play they can do more creative weird alley-oops and stuff like that it with this it's like it's almost just like a hyper

version of television broadcast of basketball yeah i think they went too far with it but I actually think he felt like they were breaking new ground with the way they were shooting it. Right. But it turned out to be a mistake. Ironically, the best basketball scene in this entire movie is Bob Cousy making 10 straight free throws. Great performance from Cousy. It was.

Cousy during the press conference is great. Just like him putting his head in his hands. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. So I remember when this movie was on cable, they did the little, you know, when they're between movies on HBO and they run the little 10-minute thing about the movie? And there was something about that scene in the little vignette thing. And apparently, that wasn't in the script for him to make all those.

So when you watch it, Nick Nolte goes, God, don't you ever miss? That's like ad-lib. That's like a real ad-lib. Because Koozie's just boom boom boom and then goes he's like 68 years old or something at the time that that was happening that was amazing i love that we all like just buy into that scene as though it makes sense because it's bob because you see him you need to see bob koozie you don't see like the athletic director he's playing vic though but but if you if you like step back and apply and look at it as part

of the story, the athletic director is talking to the coach about the team, and they're just sitting there shooting free throws. That has never happened on any college campus in the country. The most unrealistic scene in this movie might be Bob Cousy coming into the locker room after the first loss in the movie, and he's just like, hey, it's okay. We'll get him next time. You guys played your hearts out.

It's like, what AD ever saw this? That's not happening. I think that part of what I want, like, Blue Chips is almost a little too early in history where I wish, because you've seen too many movies about these hard-ass coaches who actually have a heart of gold.

It would be cool to either get a movie that was about a real slick guy, like a Calipari Patino type, and kind of chasing the night kind of guy, or a real technocrat Brad Stevens type dude who's young. He'd be the worst sports movie character. Yeah, Brad Stevens. That'd be really boring.

I love Brad Stevens, but God, that'd be boring. If Butler won the title, that would have been a perfect scenario. That would have to be like a Christian sports movie or something. Give it like a religious but i was thinking watching blue chips really it missed its calling as a netflix series yeah it doesn't really have a beginning or an ending and then when it just kind of has to have the ending it has but if you got to the end of the first season of blue chips and that was how it ended wouldn't you be like oh ugh? Then it's like the NCAA is coming after him. You string that out for like two, three years.

The point shaving scandal could have been the season one cliffhanger. You might just keep going and going with it. The point shaving thing to me is the most unrealistic scene. Not that they'd shave points, but that they were able to solve it with a video cassette in five minutes. And it's just like Tony's looking I'm on his side, Tony. Tony's looking at the e-sail for it. No, it can't be him at all. Tony's looking at the clock and then just throwing it to the other team.

It's like, wait a second. Do you think he was shaving? Yeah, he might have been. In the history of cinematic point shaving, do you like this or the 20-minute point shaving scene in The Gambler? This is worse. The Gambler is like a movie about blackjack until the third act of the gambler is a is like a movie about mark walberg watching guys shave points right and then and then it go the

ending is just him playing black or red and roulette it's like should we have a more ambitious gambling ending no no just just have them play black or red it could be over i see if i was a college coach and maybe i'm just a cynical bad person i would always be worried about my guys shaving points because my guys aren't getting paid and there's so much money bet on college basketball that if we were like favored by nine and my point guard we're up 15 he's he's looking up at the clock during every play and then throwing it to the other team i would immediately be suspicious. I don't know if this is obvious to you guys or not, but every year to start the season,

we would have a meeting with an NCAA person who would talk about point shaving. And the NCAA makes this video that's just as terrible as you would assume it is. And they try to scare all the players, and we all have to watch it at the start of every college basketball season. I don't know if that was just the Big Ten did better.

Would you guys laugh through it like it was a sex ed video? Yeah I don't know if that was just like the Big Ten did better. Would you guys laugh through it like it was like a sex ed video? Yeah, it's pretty much what it was. It was sex ed videos. There would be some guys that would kind of just be like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing. And I'm just laughing hysterically. This is so stupid that we're doing this.

Do you think guys, not to get anybody indicted, but do you think that guys don't shave points but do prop stuff like if there's a prop bet for like first team to get a foul shot or something i'm not i'm not trying to to cover up i i honestly when i was there like no one had any i everyone just so like one track mind like they want to score a lot of points and make the nba they want to get laid after the game and that's pretty much their only existence they don't care about anything else or get laid during the game as yeah as they're trying to make the NBA that's all they care about um so I'm sure there are exceptions obviously but that was that was another part of the movie that was just ridiculous to me was that they it's like they got together

and and had a brainstorming session of what's all the scummy things that happen in college sports yeah and they made a list and then they had to check every single box for this one program and this one year like or this this one moment in time at this one program like this never happens all at once like it's just one program maybe is buying cars and then the other program shaving points and the other programs do it but to have one program like doing literally everything where you get the academic stuff and the the recruiting stuff and the point shaving it's like that's that's not how it quite works but what is the last time i mean when is the last time like somebody has gone from like mediocre to like best recruiting class in the nation and it hasn't resulted in something happening afterwards i think we're to find out now with Washington.

With Washington? Yeah, because they're going to get Fultz and the kid. Who's the kid this year? Michael Porter's coming in next. Michael Porter Jr. Fultz is leaving though, right? I know, but back-to-back years, they got two absolute studs. Because that's what kind of happened with SMU too, right?

With the Moody in here? Yeah. Where it was like SMU and it's like, yeah, Larry Brown's there and they've got three amazing high school players. where it was like smu and it's like yeah larry brown's there and they've got like three amazing high school players and it was like gee really like and it it took like six months for that to go wrong am i that's right right yeah then he just got out he just fell the sword for the team sure i remember i remember at grantland when we we made some big low-key signings i remember i was getting accused yeah back then of what's going on i still love my tractor these guys it turned out i was i was sort of bummed watching it now uh blue chips

that they were they weren't clever enough with how they recruited the they pulled off these recruiting violations because now like the kid michael porter jr his dad was hired as an assistant coach on washington staff and like that's how you do it. And you've got to find these new ways to get the money and to get the guys the jobs and stuff. You wouldn't just drop a Lexus off and give to Keir's Lexus. JT Walsh walking around a parking lot being like, my money is laundered! It's scrubbed!

You'll never find it. He goes to Coach's TV show. He's this crooked booster. He's like, come on in, Coach. Oh, he's there with Ricky Rowe. They showed up together. The other really strong thing that stood out to me, and I just feel like I need to mention it,

is the wife, or the ex-wife, I guess. Mary McDonald. Who her entire existence is based around her ex-husband, and her entire view of him is based on how he coaches and how he handles his professional life. Yeah. That he comes over to her house and she's like,

no, you lied to me. And you're like, yeah, you did lie. But then you step back and you're like, he lied about like his job. Like what is this? How does this affect

your personal relationship that he may or may not be paying his players? And she's just way too into this team, especially because she's not even married to him anymore. She feels like she's almost tacked on because there is no moral compass

in this movie. So they have to make somebody who's like, this is bad. You know, Titus, let me introduce you to a very important era in sports movies. The wet blanket girlfriend slash wife. Yeah.

This starts with Adrian Balboa in Rocky II, which was 79. And for about a 15, 20 year stretch there, any female character just had to be somebody that threw a wet blanket on the lead character. When you say wet blanket, is it like I don't want you to get brain damage? No, I think that would be a good thing, right? No.

This is just like she really has no other role other than to be disapproving. Yeah. Which is how all the female characters are written in all these sports movies. And then eventually they started figuring out, but even that was rocky because that leads to Kelly Preston. Peaking with Kelly Preston, yeah.

But my question is why not make her like just upset that he cares too much about his job and not enough about their marriage and that's why it didn't work and maybe that's her angle but instead like she cares almost more than he cares and like keep your integrity and all that kind of stuff and or go the other way and just get make it ridiculous and like shack had sex with her once during the tutoring session and just make it totally crazy best actor out of out of uh matt norver shack and penny so i'm glad you asked because i thought about this a lot the acting in this movie is pretty bad i think shack stole a couple scenes shack takes a lot of shit for his acting. Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador. Culturally biased or whatever.

He's funny a couple times. And I felt this way in the theater, too. When he's in a scene, it's like, oh, cool, it's Shaq. But now it's like he's so giant that it's like young, skinny, whole life ahead of him, Shaq. I don't know. I kind of like seeing him in these scenes. He definitely has a sparkle in his eye. Penny Hardaway, you just kind of feel bad for.

Yeah. My bit of trivia that I know about, what was the guy that played Ricky Rowe, would you say? Matt Norver. Matt Norver, Matt Norver, whatever. Matt Norver. How do you not know who Matt Norver is? He was like a role model for you. He was a 6'6 shooter.

Right. He did play at IU. It was a little bit before my time. I was too young to... But didn't you know the legacy of every white 6'6 shooter in Indiana? He slipped through the cracks. He apparently played against Shaq in Shaq's final college game. I found this out, that IU beat Shaq in Shaq's final college game,

and Shaq went 12 for 12 from the free throw line. That's a bit of trivia. Wow. Maybe the extra weight 12 from the free throw line. That's a bit of trivia. Maybe the extra weight threw off his free throw game. Is that scientifically right? What happens in this movie where they're like Silk Cozart who's like, yeah he went to the army and grew 8 inches and once his body caught up

like once his coordination caught up with how big he was, he became Magic Johnson again. Is that how bodies work i think they're not growing at five eight so i don't know basically saying shack was a desert desert storm veteran vet yeah it's like right it's basically data i grew six inches in the military but yet he's in louisiana in this part of louisiana that i don't even take a boat. He's also been in Europe and played Juco. Yeah. So he's 25?

Yeah. It's a lot of life. That's like Jack Kerouac right there. I could see this in 1973 but in 1993 that there's some franchise center nobody's heard of. He's just in algiers just playing basketball on a on a nine and a half foot rim or whatever that was that he's just

abusing those poor kids trying to guard him yeah i mean it would be absolutely impossible to have that character today because it would be like the thon mccurling that would be the youtube mixtape would already be up about this kid no matter what quick break to talk about proper cloth.com every guy knows that it's hard to find a dress shirt that fits. Maybe the collar's too tight. Maybe the sleeves are too long. Maybe the shirt's too loose. Well, I have some good news.

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Blue Chips with Mark Titus and Chris Ryan. Would you have ever gone to a coach and said, I want 30K and a tractor? I wish I would have. I wanted a coach who just want me at all. Right. Yeah, no, that's just the audacity of that. That's what I mean.

There are a lot of scenes like that. I'm sure it does happen. I'm not good enough to know. Would Evan Turner have done that? No. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think it works like that. And he was the most self-assured person you ever played with.

Right. But I also, I should note that when I was at Ohio State, I was kept away from the recruits. And it was explained to me. Really? I was the only guy during the four, of all my teammates, I was the only guy on the team for the four years that never once hosted a recruit even like the other walk-ons hosted recruits and i brought it up to coach mata who i love i love thad mata to death and he really likes me and i brought it up to

him one time and his answer was we didn't let you host recruits because we wanted the recruits to come here that was all he said i feel splattered out of something. You know what? I respect that. I respect that decision, coach. That was that. So big winners of this movie. I think Bob Cousy won. Yeah. Rick Pitino.

Richard Pitino. Yeah. How about Ed O'Neill getting to play a guy named Ed? Ed O'Neill playing a guy named Ed who's, I guess, the Pulitzer Prize winning investigator. We should talk about Ed O'Neill's character because the other thing that jumped out to me is he's got the lead on this big case that's gonna be the case of this entire program and instead of like kind of maneuvering behind the scenes or like asking coach privately he like breaks his story in front of everybody yeah but he doesn't really have a story yet he's just like I like, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't ask you to cop it out.

Bill, if you had evidence that LeBron was doing PEDs, which I know you do. I know you have a lot of evidence. I do not have evidence. He wouldn't break it on this podcast. If you had some juicy story, you wouldn't go to a press conference and just throw it out to the whole

world. Wouldn't you kind of go behind the scenes and try to build something that's normally what reporters do yes right when that reporting is i didn't go to journalism school but i assume that's how it typically works so that was kind of outrageous to me that that was just ed o'neill was just gratuitous casting yeah yeah it was married it was married with children era and mary mcdonald was coming off dances with wolves and independence day she was like in some of the biggest movies of the 90s. And what was the other one? Grand Canyon?

She was in Sneakers. She had a nice little run. Yeah. Never totally understood it. I think she caught some bolt of lightning there. It was like the Penelope Ann Miller kind of, just in a couple movies where you're like, wow. Yeah.

Just kind of banging these out. At the big climatic game when they beat Indiana, coach comes into the press conference and the media is just clapping, like going absolutely nuts. Like, coach, you did it. I mean, Brian Curtis would have a field day with that. Brian Curtis would not have liked that. He would not have liked that.

Unless it was at all his numbers. How many rebounds did Neon have? It takes like five guys to play. 13! 13! Imagine Doc Rivers being like, how many boards did he have? The thing that, you know, so people are probably asking themselves, well, why did this make Sports Movie Hall of Fame then?

First of all, it's incredibly rewatchable. For all its flaws, it's just, there's never really a point in the movie where you're like, oh man, this is dragging. Or, oh man, let's fast forward. Everything's good. The music is excellent. They have this cool blues soundtrack at various points. But then they also use real songs.

A little Mellencamp at the end. Looking out my back door. Oh, yeah. A little CCR. The Jimi Hendrix song when he's going to find out if Tony shaved points. Yeah. They're playing, I think it was All Along the Watchtower. Yeah.

It's good it's a well done basketball movie that is somehow not totally gratifying and yet i if it's on i'm always like oh i'm just gonna watch the one part with shack hair and i just find myself getting sucked in for these little stretches it's definitely like a really interesting time capsule movie too because yes it's just that's that was right when that was right before you started just getting like a scandal du jour and you would just you know like there would just be like a like this team would go up and this team would come down and it was you know right it was just really when people i think were like before the internet yeah and people but there was enough information out there

like you had your street and smith's annual like yearbooks and stuff and people were like oh man billy owens is at syracuse oh man like chris weber is going to michigan like anthony hardaway's going to memphis like why is he going to memphis you know like all this stuff that was like people were starting to figure that stuff out yeah and it was just perfectly timed for that yeah because the 80s wasn't like that yeah we didn't know in the 80s so and so was going to this college or that or like i can't tell you one time that i ever heard other than i guess there's two ralph sampson and patrick ewing were the two big centers where it was a huge deal where they're going to play but they were

like sampson was seven foot four and he's on the cover si yeah and patrick ewing was like the greatest high school center they thought he was gonna be the next Bill Russell but other than that the guys would sneak up or there'd be like a Hakeem Olajuwon type story where it was like they found this guy

from Nigeria New York point guard every once in a while like God shame God there would just be like a couple of guys like cause the New York they would wind up

getting national press out of New York high schools and stuff like I remember Kenny Anderson Dennis Scott and Brian Oliver was like a huge thing

but like Larry Johnson ending up at UNLV and he was like 30 years old when he was there but he was at juco for two years and they got him and they brought him in might have been older yeah but i like i never remember in the moment like oh they got larry johnson when everything changed was the fab five yeah so that was like i think 91 But when they stacked that team and with the recruits, that was the first time I remember really paying attention, being like, oh. Yeah, and I think you started Cal at Memphis. Yeah, SportsCenter started playing it up.

How do you get Derrick Rose? True, true, true. Yeah, but that was much later, though. What year was that? That was like... But when did Cal start at Memphis, though? No, Cal, UMass was the one when he started at UMass. Yeah, he was dirty at UMass, start at Memphis, though? No, Cal, the UMass was the one when he started at UMass. And he'd can be.

He was dirty at UMass, dirty at Memphis. But he cleaned up his act when he got to Kentucky, though. That's for sure. Yeah, definitely cleaned up his act. There was a coach, a Coastal Carolina coach, I remember hearing this, saw the movie Blue Chips. His name was Russ Bergman, I think. He played with Pete Mar maravich actually but um saw the movie blue chips and basically felt so guilty about what pete bell went through that he

he admitted to some infractions based on changing lives yeah like he came out of the movie like i need i need to clean my conscience here that's a program coastal carolina yeah allegedly like that was so that was the thing that happened so we had a lot of fun doing this with white man can't jump we gotta we gotta reboot it yeah so let's reboot blue chips for now so i'm glad you asked i think it's a netflix series and i think the coach is the most important thing but the cool thing about rebooting anything now is all these guys are so hungry to have this second life, either as an actor or social media or whatever.

I feel like you could get any player you want. Anybody under 25, really? Emmanuel Moutier is not going to want to be in the Blue Chips remake? I want to be in it. All these dudes. I want to be one of the token white dudes that's out there. He's ready. He's in shape.

He's ready to be Ricky Rose's son. But this is why I think Rick Fox is going to be remembered as somebody who's just way ahead of his time. Like Rick Fox, blue chips, Eddie, he got game. Bangs it out in a four-year span. And Oz. And he's playing basketball and he's about to win titles in the Lakers. He was a good player when he was doing all this stuff. He kind of saw the future.

He saw how to parlay all these different things. Shaq went the other way. Shaq didn't do the basketball thing as much. But yeah, I think with blue chips, the coach would be the key. So it's got to be somebody who's in that 50 to 54 range, right, that we have some history with yeah so who is do something younger like you could try to do like jamie foxx as like a shock of smart type jamie oh yeah i like how you switch colors on it well just we could make somebody who's just like i'm

a young guy trying to break in here and uh like you could have a whole aau subplot you could have so you're basically doing like the andy enfield usc type of that'd be good with shaka smart because he was like the hot young coach of vcu and then he got to texas and they suck now so maybe he's like going through the the texas boosters should i start cheating should i start now he's like the under 18s coach just like conveniently like gonna get some signatures there probably or maybe do it with uh maybe it's a guy who's coaching Duke University, who's had a lot of success, who also happens to be the Olympic team coach. Like Giamatti.

And leverages the Olympic team connections for a huge recruiting advantage, and then claims that he's all about education, but it's just one and done every year. Jack Nicholson as Jerry Colangelo? I don't know who that coach would be, but maybe that's somebody. Maybe this coach, he hires a old assistant of his who got fired from his other job for recruiting violations. And then when that assistant comes to the program,

they start landing five stars left and right. Yeah. Like maybe a coach like that, for example. Yeah. Something like that. And it always seems like he's going to retire, but it never does. That's interesting.

And he has this other rival at a school, maybe in this, like in Kentucky, somewhere like that, that everyone blames for this stuff. I think that could work. That's a cool idea. You came up with that by yourself.

Costner? I don't know. Too old? The thing that you got to have is somebody... Costner doesn't strike me as somebody who can be that morally compromised. I feel like you need Alec Baldwin. Like Michael Douglas? Yeah.

Somebody who's just like Baldwin. Alec Baldwin turns into an SNL sketch. Alec Baldwin now, anything he's in is an SNL so I can't take him as a real actor anymore. Giamatti would be good. No, stop selling me on Giamatti. Giamatti would be a good... Just stop. Like, I've been coaching New York

basketball for 25 years. That would be funny. I just had a... I played for Luke on a second You reminded me of something If Tom Hanks is in Blue Chips If Tom Hanks is Pete Bell That would be great Is it a totally different movie?

But didn't Tom Hanks make that movie? It's a league of their own? Yeah but he's like Kind of drunk pot belly version of Pete Bell I don't really know like What Nolte was going for with Pete Bell I think is one of my issues With the movie It's like He didn't really know like what Nolte was going for with people. I think is one of my issues with, with the movie.

It's like, he didn't really have a vice. Yeah. Except though there is one scene. This is, there's not a lot of like, um, Oh man,

this is so nostalgic to see. Like there's a couple of like shack wearing Zubas or whatever scenes, but there's one part of your scene where, when, uh, Ricky comes in to be like, I'm going to come to college here, so I want 30 grand. And the cutaway is Nick Nolte sitting on the couch,

and he's got a giant glass of Hi-C. And it's like before we knew sugar was bad, so it's just like an old man drinking fruit punch. And it's just amazing. I was just like, oh, yeah, that was before you knew that would kill you. Like he's going gonna die in two years well with the first sports movie

Hall of Fame pod we did we talked about how 96 was kind of the cut off yeah and how everything 96 and after

just became more nuanced yeah more knowing about the world of sports it wasn't just like hey here's a college basketball movie and we're gonna try

to tell you everything about college basketball in 100 minutes. The ambition became much more like characters. Let's pick a piece of college basketball, blow it out. He Got Game, which is another movie, it's a lot about college basketball,

does it so much more effectively than Blue Chips. Blue Chips is like the blown out parody version of a college basketball movie. That's my my gripe is that it has zero nuance whatsoever it's just like trying to show everybody what college basketball is and i guess maybe if you don't know that's interesting but for someone like me who kind of live that it's like this is just absolutely ridiculous the reality is that we just all like college basketball and and i know all the college basketball movies that have ever been made. And I think I've seen all of them a combined 500 times. Yeah.

Because you go back to one-on-one with Robbie Benson. Fast Break, my favorite sports movie of all time. That's, I think, is banned from cable because it's so inappropriate for so many reasons. How have we made it this long without talking about the gratuitous Larry Bird? I was saving that for the tail end yeah so it's post-retirement legend they go we'd see his house which i have to admit in 1994 i might have might have popped one i just ran my pants just rather lost it but uh but then he's like i'll take you to ricky i know where he lives but then he's not in the next scene it's like that you know what that meant they got larry bird for one day of

shooting yeah and he's and somebody called in like the biggest favor of all time yeah and he also he also says coach what do you want like he you live in a town of 200 people and there's this five star recruit and this college coach from la flies to your town and comes to see you. And then you go like, so what is it? What do you want coach? And, and Nick Nolte is like,

I want to talk to Rick. And he's like, Oh, Oh, is that what you want? And like, like you're shocked. Of course.

What? That's why you're in France looking at it. That's also like the Luke Gossett Jr. Cameo that happens. Like when Luke Gossett walks out and he's like, everybody wants a piece of butch. Oh yeah. $50.

Oh yeah. $50. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I forgot about the Lugasa cameo. That was a little montage, yeah, of the recruiting. Larry Bird. I think this was his only movie appearance.

Was that the house that he was at when he hurt his back? Yeah. That's the... Yeah, that was the end of the early 90s Celtics diary. What's the Daniel Stern movie? Oh, Celtics brand. And Larry doesn't have a cameo in there? No, Larry doesn't have a cameo. He's in Space Jam. yeah that was the end of the early 90s celtics diary what's the daniel stern movie the celtics brand and larry doesn't have a cameo in there no larry doesn't have a space jam oh he is in space yeah he's in space jam they got larry bird and bob knight in this movie that is like koozie

and but that is absolutely shocking cries absolutely koozie wins the movie bob koozie yeah biggest loser probably matt nova it's it's he's it's like shack and it's penny and then it's matt nova yeah and then bob knights i mean uh nick nolte's just really mean to him twice yeah get out of here ricky like he just i thought you're trying to recruit this guy you're kicking him out of his office yeah and then he's being to him a second time he tells when he gets the car yeah yeah he like throws the keys at him. You get out of here. Another big winner

from this movie is the Orlando Magic. Yeah. So we didn't mention that part because they filmed this movie right after they had made the penny trade

and it was Shaq and Penny together. And then they had a fun first season together. I think that's how it went. Was it the 94 draft or 93? I thought they made

the movie and Shaq was like, I love this guy. That's juicy. That's what happened? I think they's how it went. Was it the 94 draft or 93? I thought they made the movie and Shaq was like, I love this guy. Is that what it was? That's juicy. That's what happened? I think they were filming it and Shaq liked them. Something like that.

Blue Chips brought those two together? I think it did. That's amazing. That's what they said in this magic moment. He was like, I like playing with this guy. He was so impressed by the play of Hardaway that he strongly encouraged the Orlando Magic to draft him, according to Wikipedia. So Blue Chips swung the Orlando Magic thing. And then that comes out and they're together.

But what's the equivalent of it? It would almost be like if Durant and Westbrook had been in Blue Chips in 2008. The domino effect is if Blue Chips doesn't get made, does Penny never go to the Magic and does Shaq never then go to the Lakers? Penny's in the Warriors. C-Web goes to Orlando and C c-web and shack are feuding immediately i think they ever get along and yeah any point of that that's like the boogie anthony davis thing how that's going to play out but at the time it was like stunning when they took it was like oh my god shack and c-web are going to be in the same team this is the greatest

basketball team of all time now it's like the the warriors would just space them out you'd have to take one of them off the floor uh blue chips final grade uh b minus for me so you would not have put this in the hall of fame no but it's i think it has to be different because it's not a movie that is like lovable so all these other movies in their own way are like either like really campy or they're like just really feel good movies or they're really smart this one's like good but it's like it's definitely just like a unflinching dark look at sports as a comedy it's an a a minus for me unintentional copy unintentional copy um as like uh whatever it was trying to be, I'd say like a C.

Yeah, C minus. Something like that. I think whenever I wrote about this, I remember comparing it to Penny Hardaway's NBA career. It's just an incredible amount of promise. Started out great. Really, Blue Chip's first half hour is really good. Some bumps, ultimately not that satisfying

and yet kind of a tiny bit underrated and important for all these years yeah you'll remember it yeah as you definitely get older it's one of a kind penny was one of a kind um better than you remembered which i think it goes the same for penny like penny was first team all nba in 95 or 96 one of those years led a team to the finals with shack made 140 million dollars there's 150 million dollars something it's not like he was a bust like he had a pretty good career and i think that's the blue chips legacy it's it's totally watchable i don't think that like i know there are people that like they love he got game there are people that love He Got Game. There are people that love White Men Can't Jump. Or people like me that love Fast Break.

I don't know if there's... Is there a Blue Chips Hive? Yeah, people are like, Blue Chips, that's my movie, man. When Tony was point-shaming. I love it when he drinks high C. But really, for a 10-year stretch, it's the only college hoop movie of its time. A lot of blue chips posters. Great poster.

Great poster with Shaq and Nolte on it. One of the, one of the best posters. Yeah. Would you go above the rim or blue chips? Cause that was the same year. I'd go blue chips. I like blue chips better.

I love above the rim. Above the rim is incredible. Now above the rim is incredible now above the rim is a masterpiece I think we know our next one then it's a masterpiece it's just

it's just fantastic we Rafe and I think Andrew Sharp and I we think we wrote 8,000 words about above the rim for Greatland

yeah was that Concepcion or Sharp I can't even remember I can't remember anything anymore alright that's it for

Sports Movie Hall of Fame. We have, do we know what the next one is yet? Should we take suggestions? Yeah, let's get some suggestions. I have a couple in mind. Maybe we'll do a Facebook poll when we post the link for this podcast and we'll give you four choices. Yeah.

And you can vote on the choices. Do you have a suggestion, Mark Titus? Don't say Hoosiers. That's the only suggestion I would have. Any other suggestion? I'd have to think about it. Nothing jumps out to me now. Nothing jumps out after 50 years of sports movies?

Nothing? I mean, Hoosiers is the one. I would say Mighty Ducks for people that are my generation. Would you go Mighty Ducks or Ducks 2? Ducks 2, probably. That's probably the better one. Hard pass. Ducks 2. See, guys are like you have a blind spot to like the i don't have a blind spot at all well yeah i do the podcast does you know we need some uh yeah we we tried to keep it last 20 years but i think now we're gonna try to there's a couple of suggestions

i hear a lot are creed the replacements uh replacements a league of their own he's got game so we should mix up we've been going we've been hopping from sport to sport i'm almost ready for creed i think i've almost seen it enough times yeah the it the the atv scene is that we call those things those little four wheel things the meek mill scene yeah amazing remember the titans is that too obvious? No, that's a good one. That's a good one.

Here's my thing about Remember the Titans. Did we have to paralyze the guy? It's, it's a, it's based on a true story. Can't he just like

blow down his knee? Do we have to put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life? It's a feel good sports movie I can't get over Every time I watch it I'm like

Why do they do that And then Kate Bosworth I think is the sexiest racist In the history of movies Like she's fantastic And she's so hateful There's never been Like a more hateful

We're definitely not Doing Remember the Titan There's never been a more We definitely just have to Hope no one is still listening There's never been a more hateful hot character i can remember any movie like she's the worst person ever and it's like wow kate bosworth looks great and meanwhile she's just horrible you're not backing me on this i

i don't which part the paralyzing or the kate bosworth part kate bosworth i honestly didn't remember the kate all i remember is Gosling from that. She looks unbelievable. She's Virtue's girlfriend. Yeah, she looks unbelievable in it, and she's the worst person. So, yeah, that's another. Maybe we should just save this for the Remember the Titans podcast. Yeah, I think so. I think you hit on something. It also has one of my favorite tropes, which is the eight-year-old girl who knows sports as well as the adults. The human being that's never existed ever.

She knows how to, like, break down the West Coast offense. It's like, this human doesn't exist. Anyway. All right. We'll save that for the next time. Mark Titus. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

We'll save you for the Hoosiers one. The Hoosiers one might be four hours, though. We're going to turn that into a series. I could talk about Hoosiers forever. I have so many thoughts about Buddy's mysterious reappearance. Yeah. Buddy gets kicked off the team team and then he's back. He's back.

It's just, yeah. Chris Ryan, take care. It was great. All right, that's it. If you want to hear the rest of the Sports Movie Hall of Fames, go to Channel 33. They are all on there. Don't forget to download the SeatGeek app today

or go right to SeatGeek.com. We have two more BS podcasts coming this week, including Larry Wilmore coming tomorrow on Wednesday. Should be fun. He's a great guest and a fun guy to talk to about a whole bunch of stuff. He's also a Lakers fan. We might talk about that a little bit as well. Until tomorrow, the BS podcast. I don't have

a few years with him on the wayside on the wayside never I don't have a few years