The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 23: Michael Rapaport

Episode Date: November 11, 2015

HBO's Bill Simmons discusses Knicks' Porzingis franchise player potential, NBA Rookie of the Year race, Andrew Wiggins' rise in Year 2, De Niro vs. Pacino, and a couple of "world class stickmen" with Michael Rapaport. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And just a reminder, the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by SeatGeek and we have Michael Rappaport coming and he is not afraid to swear on podcasts. So be ready. Cover the ears of your small children if they're listening in a car right now. Here we go. Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor, as well as my favorite app for purchasing tickets to sporting events, concerts, and whatever else. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app. Use promo code BS. sponsor as well as my favorite app for purchasing tickets to sporting events, concerts, and whatever

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for a fraction of the cost of traditional services. Sign up today. Get up to six months of free automated investing, full terms and conditions at Betterment.com slash BS. Betterment. Investing made better. Tupac? Tupac.

Oh, okay. That's our theme song. You talk about this in your book. Yeah, it's my favorite song. Do you have to license this shit? I did a lot of lobbying for this with the estate and they and they couldn't have been greater about the whole thing well i explained to him why i needed the song no you and you broke it down in the book broke it down in the book and now you're still rocking with it you're still rolling yeah i'm keeping the spirit alive it's

gonna be 20 years for him next year 20 20 years since he passed? Yeah. Damn. I don't even, I wouldn't call it a passing. I would call it a murder. 20 years since he was murdered. He was murdered on Wilshire Boulevard. Right? No, Tupac was Vegas. Oh, no, he was Vegas. Biggie was.

Tupac, Biggie was down the street from here. Biggie was Wilshire like seven minutes away. Not even. Like we could get to, and Jam Master master jay easy not one of these things has ever been resolved yet no it's amazing isn't it fucking crazy if if i'm not putting this on anybody but if any a-list actor was murdered in that same way it would been figured out no matter how much that's like if brad pickup i didn't nameumont. You just named Brad Pitt. Right. But yeah, Tupac, Big E, we have nothing. Jam Master Jay, nothing.

I mean, that was like a bloody assassination. Wait a second. 20 years. I got to interview you. You got to introduce me. People are like, who the fuck is that screaming and yelling? Because your podcast, the people come, you kind of slow dick into it. I like that, though. Like, you kind of slow dick into it. I like that, though.

Like, you kind of slow dick into it. Like, everybody comes on, they're chill, and then you ramp up. How many F-bombs are you going to drop, Michael Rapaport? Is this, are we not allowed to curse? No, we're allowed to curse. I mean, you know, I don't know if, like, 125 F-bombs are going to be acceptable. I do have a couple, like, dads with their 11-year-old sons right now who probably like to hear the cursing. But if it's a steady stream, they might not get to hear your Porzingis take in like five minutes.

I'll try to. I want you to have a Porzingisgasm. A Porzingasm? Porzingasm. The zinger. Zingergasm? I want to hear your take on Porzingis more than my take on Porzingis. Let's do it.

Well, let's first of all. I am Michael Rappaport. It's a pleasure to have you on the Bill Simmons podcast. I'm so happy to be here. We used to be neighborhood arch rivals. Then we became friends. Quickly. And then you had one of the greatest podcast hits I've ever done.

On the old podcast. You came in hot like a year and a half ago on the old BS Report. You came in hot. I tried to get. You came in like red hot. Yes get You came in like red hot. You came in like when J.R. Smith gets hot like once a year. You came in hot. You're making 25

footers. Yes. And I pleaded and begged for Steve Kerr to come to the Knicks and then I pleaded and begged for Mark Jackson to come to the Knicks and they both didn't come to the Knicks. You tried to Jedi mind trick both of them like they weren't men. Right. Like as if

me on your podcast was gonna turn the whole fucking thing around. I didn't need that curse. You didn't need it. I didn't need that one. Beep that one out, Tate. Just beep that one out. Let me get three beeps. We don't need two beeps. No, just give me three beeps. Alright, fine. Now you got me self-conscious. So instead

you got Derek Fisher who every game his beard looks different. I don't know if he's putting on fake beards, if it's like a Harrison Ford fugitive thing. He's like Henry Hill, the Henry Hill of coaches. And I actually think he might have been replaced. All of a sudden now he doesn't have a neck. They got a new guy in there. I feel like they surgically repaired his face and they've been hiding it. They, they, they like, yo, what do you want?

I like to throw the questions that you see. The thing about, the thing about coming on your podcast. And that's why I said to you, and I'm going to throw this at you on the air about you coming on my podcast is I have so many more questions for you than you could possibly have for me. So, wait. Wait, this is all obscuring the fact that Knicks fans feel good for the first time in like 15 years. The Knicks fans feel good because Porzingis is getting tip dunks.

All right, so. That's how low our standards are. Let's go through the whole cycle of Porzingis. You have the fourth pick. Yes. You almost trade the fourth pick, which a lot of people don't know. Okay. Draft day, the Celtics are trying to move up.

You're going to move back from four to nine. Charlotte's going to move back. It's a four-team deal. And the Knicks actually are in. To trade the fourth pick. They're going to trade the fourth. They're going to pick up an extra first and move back five spots and take Kaminsky, I think. You just said some crazy basketball nerd shit to me.

I don't know what the fuck. But the math you just said to me. So the Knicks were going four to nine. The Suns were going like 16 to four, but they were giving up like four of their picks. Okay. Charlotte was moving backwards, and then I think the Hawks were moving way back. Okay. And Charlotte backed out.

And that was the end of that. And the Knicks were like, fine, I guess we'll take Porzingis, who is now a franchise player. How? I think he's a franchise player. How? All right, but so they- I'm not saying, like, when they first drafted him- Did you freak out?

Well- You probably wanted Justice Winslow, right? I just didn't know who he was. Like, I didn't, like, there was a YouTube video of him shooting, and it's's, he's so prepubescent. He doesn't, he hasn't went through puberty. I, we don't know if he's had sex or not. He may or may not be the only virgin in the NBA and not by choice. Like, it's not like AC green. Okay. So we like, he looks so young. He absolutely like, I like my first round picks to be shaving at least three to four times a week. That's just me. I want a man

to come in there. Not a 19 year old who's from a country that may or may not, is that even a real place? Lativia? Is that a real country? Latvia. Latvia. Latvia. Is that on the map? Is it one of these new found places? Like I didn't know anything about that. It's a place. It's somewhere in the Russia

vortex. Okay, so what we've been through with draft picks. Yeah, you may, we don't know anything about that. It's a place. It's somewhere in the Russia vortex. Okay, so what we've been through with DraftPick. Yeah, we don't know where that place is. You don't really know. And you're a smart guy. You got books around you. No one really knows. And then you see this 7'3 child. And all you see is YouTube videos of him shooting around.

And you have some Yijin Lan flashbacks. You have some Nicholas Tshishkavili flashbacks. Right, french guy the fred weiss yes who never came over here who's like paperwork came right never made it so we don't know if porzingis has got his paperwork cleared or whatever and let me tell you something bill if i went in your backyard backyard and i shot around you post on youtube maybe if we edited right i got hot you could say rapaport has got a fucking mean stroke so so so it was just a shock to everybody and then you can't say his name and it's chris is his name chris is chris tap what's your name like it was just a lot of confusion the name was tough chris taps does

sound like chris taps porcingis could easily be a victoria's secret model exactly it could be some fine ass 19 year old or an actress like in in some TNT show you're doing with Ed Burns. Exactly. She's like the lead actress. Nobody's heard of her yet. Exactly. But she's great. Chris Tapp's Porzingis is in it. She's fantastic. Yeah. She's great. And she she does the New York dialect fantastically. You'd be shocked. Right. So so I think all that was what for me and the fans were like, what's going on here? Because we're so fragile. We're fragile. Nick fans are fragile.

There's no reason to trust Phil Jackson yet. It's unclear if he's working 25 hours a week. That I don't agree with. Doesn't even totally... I'm just saying you had no reason. No, we had no reason. You didn't know if he was even in New York all the time? No, we don't know.

We don't know. He could have been where he lives, Palos Verdes, wherever the hell it is. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know for sure. He might be there right now. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know for sure. He might be there right now. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know for sure.

So you have that, and then on top of it, you just have a natural fear of all Knicks moves. Natural fear of all Knicks moves. We've been beaten down. It is an abusive relationship. It has become an abusive relationship. It is abusive. Be careful.

I know you're going to make some analogy here that we're going to have to edit out, so don't even say it. No, don't. Okay, fine. But it is an abusive relationship. We've been through a lot. And then the whole high of the great 30 for 30, When the Garden Was Eaten, directed by Michael Rapaport, under your tutelage and stuff.

And then Phil Jackson comes and the editing of When the Garden Was Eaten, which I did direct, and the hype of all that, and then the first year of Phil coming, and it was shockingly bad. But it wasn't Phil's. We thought that Phil was going to just go presto, change it, or do like a Doug Henning thing, and it was going to all get fixed. But last year was worse than you could have imagined. But then with the turn at the tail end of, okay, this is really horrible, but at least we're going to get one of the top three picks

and possibly the number one pick. Exactly. And then you win two games in a row in like the last week or whatever happened. What was the Langston Galloway game where he got red hot? Yeah, I don't know, but I know what you mean. I know a Knicks fan who said it was one of the five worst moments of his life.

Was when Langston Galloway got hot. Whatever that game was when you were supposed to lose the game. I think it was San Antonio or somebody. It was like three. All right, keep talking. I'm going to look it up. But the thing is, is that it was just, so you get all these guys and all these other children that are in the draft.

Justice Winslow, who I don't think shaves, and Carl Anthony Towne, who's going to be the Rookie of the Year. That guy's a beast. He's could play. That guy's a beast. I saw him play a quarter the other day, and he's the rookie of the year. He's the only guy NBA ready. Well, you'd trade Porzingis for Towns.

Yes. He could play. I don't know if anyone else in the draft you would trade Porzingis for. I don't think I would. Why are you so impressed with Porzingis so far? Now, I'm not saying I'm not. This is what I like about Porzingis so far. Obviously, he's tall.

He's aggressive. He's not timid he's uh um he has a skill set my my fears are the size of his feet what size feet does he have those are big boats those big boats they make me nervous they they look you know you feel like it's like a Ralph Sampson you know kind of thing or you know like oh you think like his body's gonna break down he's just really tall and and there's a, you know, you feel like it's like a Ralph Sampson, you know, kind of thing. Or, you know, like. Oh, you think like his body's going to break down. He's just really tall. And there's a lot, you know, there's a lot there. And he's underdeveloped, you know, physically. Here are the games.

Game 80, you beat Orlando by one. Right. And then game 81, you beat Atlanta by four. And that was it. You just lose those last two. You're pretty much guaranteed a top three pick. Right. But now it worked out because you got Porzingis.

So what do you think of Porzingis so far? You're saying a franchise player. That's what Bill Simmons is saying right now. That Porzingis, after seeing him play, what, five or six games? Well, first of all, I was impressed with him in Summer League. Yes. I was totally ready to make Porzingis jokes for the next 12 years. No, I was just like, oh.

2013, look me up Summer League I know you had a couple Good celebrity games 14 points I didn't understand the pick Because I didn't understand How you would have Porzingis But then Carmelo

At the tail end of his prime The two things Don't make sense Because if you have Carmelo In the state he's in now You're trying to win the title Right This is now

A two to three year Building plan Right By the end of that Building plan Carmelo will no longer and now you're trying to win the title. Right. This is now a two to three year building plan. Right. By the end of that building plan, Carmelo will no longer be in his prime. And that's the part I didn't understand. It's like, oh, well, if they're going to do this, they'll obviously trade Carmelo, right?

And then the Knicks are like, no, actually what we're going to do is we're going to spend $100 million on Robin Lopez and Aaron Aflalo and Kyle Quinn. And we're going to be like a 43 win team. That's the part I didn't get. With that said, Porzingis

was the right pick and here's why I like him. Tell me what you like about him. Tip dunks. Shockingly tall. 7'3", like for real. But 7'3", like a real, doesn't like slouch over 7'3", like stands up straight 7'3". He's Lativian and he's proud.

Reminds me, I remember seeing Smits in the, in the, whenever draft he was, like 87, 88. Right. Before he started hurting his feet. Right. Young Smits was really athletic. Yes. And like when you saw him in person, you say to yourself, holy mackerel. Like this guy's like white Ralph Samson.

Yes. And then he got hurt in his game change. But it reminded me a little of Young Smith's, but he has 25-foot range. Yes. And he's athletic. Yes. And he's tough.

He's not like one of these weak form guys that come in. This guy's like he's got a little attitude to him. No, he's got attitude. I liked how he handled the fact that the Knicks fan, he got booed during the draft. Yep. The Knicks fans were mad after. I went nuts. He had a great attitude to him. No, he's got attitude. I liked how he handled the fact that the Knicks fan, he got booed during the draft. Yep. The Knicks fans were mad after. I went nuts.

He had a great attitude about it. I agree. He was just like, all right, I'm going to show these guys that they're wrong. He wasn't like, ooh. Yeah, no. These fans don't like me. He's aggressive. But here's what I really-

Did you see the pictures of him when he was young with the cornrows? Oh, yeah. I think he was a gangbanger back then. He might have been. He was bout it, bout it. He might have been in the Crips. Matt being Crips. Matt being Crips.

Remember that HBO doc banging in Little Rock? Oh, yeah. Yo, he was banging in Little Rock. He was banging in Lativia. You act like I haven't seen every gang

and hooker doc that every HBO has ever done. Bill, you're like a... I know, I'm like a swat. I was going to say F again. Good one.

I held it back. Good hold back. I know you've seen it. I know maybe you hadn't seen it or thought about it recently. Here's what I love about Porzingis. I was actually arguing about this yesterday with the four people I'm working with from the old Grantland people. When he's out there, the other team's kind of messed up by it. Yes.

They're worried about him. I agree. I always judge. I think football and basketball are two great examples of this. When you see the other team react to certain people, like there will be wide receivers in football, and the guy's like in motion. Everybody's like pointing and freaking out. And in hoops, you have this 7'3 guy who can shoot 25-footers,

and if you run out at him, he's still going to be able to shoot over you. Because he's so tall. We've never seen a stretch five who could be like, yeah, run out at me. I'm still going to shoot over you. Right. So what do you do? If he becomes really good, what do you do? How do you stop that?

Because on the other end, he knows how to use his body, holds his hands up. Yeah. And he's actually kind of effective defensively. He's so tall. He's not Sean Bradley just crouching down and getting dunked on. He's a gangbanger. I mean, Sean Bradley, if he had been in a gang

the way we're just saying that Porzingis was, I mean, in the name, Porzingis, he was in some sort of gang with that name, like P-Zinger, P-Dog,

something like, he was in a gang. I'm not for sure. I don't think he'd be the best player on a championship team. I agree. But I think with one other guy, if it's him and someone else, you could win the title with him if he stayed healthy.

Not in the next two years. If you had to bet every piece of memorabilia in this house that the Knicks would win a championship with Carmelo and Porzingis, and you say, yo, it's all this memorabilia. I would say 0% chance. Holy shit. I was going to say shit again. You got in my head. You're in my head now. Dads that are listening to this with your 11-year-olds, your kids are listening to filthy hip-hop.

So me saying the F-bomb to forward motion myself and my lack of communication skills, just bear with it. Okay? It's not Bill's fault. Carmelo, how many years left does he a 25-point-a-game guaranteed throw him the ball in the last three minutes and he can score on any one guy? I just, I don't think it's realistic.

Maybe next year? Yeah. But now it's, what is it, year 13 for him? It's a long time. And this is like the math with Kobe and these Laker fans who thought Kobe was going to come back this year and still be good.

It's like, dude, at some point it's over. I don't care if you're an actress, you're a singer, you're a writer, you're an NBA star. At some point it becomes math. I agree. And for Kobe to be good in year 20 was unrealistic. And it's actually sad to watch him.

I hate watching it. Hakeem in Toronto was the low point for me for a top 20 guy. Yeah. Just like, just please, can you just retire? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I hate the Kobe thing. Parish on the Bulls was the best.

That was terrible. But he was not a top 20 guy. No, no. But Kobe is a top 10 guy ever. Absolutely. He's a top five. What do you put him in your pyramid? I would say eight. Eight. Eight in your pyramid? I would say eight.

Eight. Eighth. Yeah, I'd say eight. I think Duncan gets the nod over him. Wouldn't you rather have 20 years of Duncan than 20 years of Kobe? I agree. I heard Legler, who's on another network, which we should name. They were talking about this last night and the length of being in title contention for so long.

Duncan. But, I mean, there are different kinds of players, different teams, different organizations, different coaches, different turmoil. But, I mean, listen. You'd rather, if you're a basketball fan, it's like, what gives me a better chance to win for the next 20 years?

You would take Tim Duncan. You just would. Yeah, I agree. The guy was 55 to 60 wins a year if you put mediocre teammates around him. You said was. Last year in the playoffs, he was the best guy on one leg. Crazy.

On one leg. He turned it up during the playoffs last year. There was a move he actually missed, but he got it at the free throw line in the past, took one dribble and spin to loop and missed the layup. And I was like, yo, this guy looks like he's 24 years old. I know. I think we talked about this. Like I might've texted you or something.

He goes to the Virgin Islands. He swims. He like swims with dolphins. Got terrible style, terrible personal style. I've ever seen him. He eats like fruit off of Virgin Island trees and vegetables. And I don't know what he does.

He just chill. He's certainly like, he's the one guy, I would believe anyone with PEDs at this point. like he's the one guy i would believe anyone with peds at this point and he's the one guy that i would just be completely blown away and i would have a borderline heart attack if he was in like a biogenesis game i'd be like there's no way like even look at his body like he's the one guy that doesn't he has built like old school bill russell type of basketball players like i wouldn't even say Bill Russell. He's built like my uncle Cliff. Bill Russell had some muscle tone.

Tim Duncan in his prime, he was like an uncle of mine. He never got bulky. Never had nothing. And he's just so unassuming. I remember when Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett on the Timberwolves and Kevin Garnett was like yelling in his face and and Kevin Garnett was yelling in his face and saying, and Tim Duncan was just laughing like, what's up? I think he never liked Kevin Garnett.

Kevin Garnett did something early on. He probably said some crazy stuff to him. He said something to him, and Duncan, that was it. Duncan always tried to kill him from that point on. Always. But kill you quietly. It doesn't say anything. So this rookie draft

Who's the rookie of the year? I got Carl Anthony Towns Well Towns is like Towns might be like One of the best 25 players In the league already He could play He could pass

He's aggressive He's just really good Yeah he's really good I would say he's Coming out of the gate As a forward Who's Does the stuff that are

In that kind of sphere. Yep. More polished than KG was in year two on the Timberwolves. I agree. On par with what Duncan did coming out of college. Duncan had been in college for four years. There's a calmness. He's polished. It looks like he was in college

for like four years. He's good. And Wiggins I knew was going to jump. He's good. That was the guy I thought. I'm surprised that he's good he's good and wiggins i knew was gonna jump like he's good that was the guy i thought i'm surprised that that he's so good so quick i didn't know if it was gonna be this year but i thought it would be this year and next year where he made like a real because you could see pieces of it last year like his his speed yeah it's just at a whole other level yeah and he was 20 scary and did you see. Crazy. No, actually, I think he was one of those guys that when he graduated high school, he was 27. Right, and he's got some paperwork issues. They blew...

Because he's got a full beard now. He went from having nothing to he's like a man now. All right, so I do that trade value column every year. Yes. You could argue Wiggins and Towns are two of the top eight or nine most untradeable guys in the league. I agree. I agree. I would like to see them get a coach that is commensurate with their talents.

I agree with that. Is that the right word? I agree with that. I remember LeBron early on just had this clown show of coaches. Yes. Is Mike Brown a clown show? Who was the guy before? It was somebody even worse before him.

I don't know. I don't remember. You're the guy. Paul Silas? Was he? Yes. In Cleveland. Didn't they make it to the finals with Paul Silas?

No, it was Mike Brown. Mike Brown. What happened to him? Think how bad Mike Brown was on the Lakers. I know. LeBron has a way of making everyone look like a competent coach. Or a competent player. It's like if you had Daniel Day-Lewis in your movie right now.

Yes. Does that mean you're a good director? No. Right. He'll make, he'll, the person who I think who does that the best, more than Daniel Day, Denzel Washington has a handful of movies that people would be like, that's a really good movie solely on his performance. That if you put any other actor in the movie it wouldn't be as good. He is the guy you're talking about.

Denzel, like... So Denzel's the LeBron of acting. He's that good. He's a one... He can take a bad script with, like, a mediocre storyline and, like,

sort of mock drama and elevate it to Shakespearean, even Training Day. Not to say that it was a bad movie, but you, that doesn't work with any other actor.

It doesn't. Well, Man on Fire is another one. That's the one I was gonna go to next. That was one of my favorites. He's, that's where it's like,

you put any other actor in, you put Liam Neeson in there, Harrison Ford, or any of these guys, it goes to mock drama. Denzel, you're riveted by it. He's that incredible. Denzel's now like 25 years of that. Have you done a movie with Denzel? No, I never did.

You never got to be shot by him or anything? Nothing. Shot, smacked. Can you ask him if he can shoot you in a movie? I would love to. How many people have murdered you in a movie or a TV show? I always get murdered, smacked, shot. It's a handful.

A handful. What was your best death scene? Higher Learning? Higher Learning was good because I killed myself. A movie called Kiss. You know, there was a... How much weight did you lose for that movie? Higher Learning?

I lost a lot. I lost a lot. But I was sick to... Was that like some Matt Damon, I'm trying to prove a point to the agents that i'm really committed i was young too so it was easier to lose weight but i was thinner to begin with but i did lose weight but i was kind of super thin though super thin i look at it now it looks crazy i was actually i got to like one below 170 pounds at the beginning i was like 190. And you're like 6'2"? 6'3"? Jesus.

But I was younger, though. I hadn't gone... My body was lighter in general. You know what I'm saying? Plus, you were having all that Hollywood sex. From the post-Zebrahead. The post-Zebrahead. You were kind of hot. I look at my pictures of myself and I go

I shouldn't have tried to be like, you know Like a character act Like I was like, I want to be like gritty and all that I look at pictures of myself Like I was like, you know, I had my shit together You know, in my 20s I didn't mean hot as No, you meant hot

Handsome, I meant hot like you were Your career was hot Hot, but you gotta be hot to be hot Did you have Was there a whole thing where Because of the plot of Zebra Head? Yes. You were now vetted with a certain type of woman out there that felt like... Black chicks?

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's always been something for me. Okay, so that was there anyway. That was there anyway. Did the movie kind of perpetuate any sort of... The movie still perpetuates it. Like the Zebra Head and all that stuff, but I'm happy with that. I love that. anyway just the movie kind of perpetuated the movie still perpetuates it like the zebra head and all that stuff but i have no i'm happy with that i i love that you know and and that like but

the reason why i was in the movies because like that was so much like when i did zebra that was so close to who i was at the time i was even more hardcore than like that movie like i was just like you know street thought i was this thought i was that and everybody around me was like that movie. Like I was just like, you know, street thought I was this thought I was that. And everybody around me was like that. I want you to know that I saw that movie in the theater. And what in Boston? Yeah. In Cambridge. I used to go to,

did you, were you like, what did you think? Not Cambridge. Boston university. They had a theater that was kind of the artsy fartsy indie theater, which was great. I saw like every,

that was a good time. A movie from like 89 to 94 there that was a good time in movies it really was but also like there was no internet yet yeah back then it was like i don't have anything to do to 12 to 3 i'm gonna go see a movie i saw every movie right um the movie so that one like i saw higher learning in the theater too nowadays i would probably just wait till that was on pay-per-view. You wouldn't go support Higher Learning? Actually,

Singleton was hot back then. I would have gone to see Higher Learning in the theater. How did we get on me? We were talking about Denzel. I asked if he had ever shot you. Oh yeah, no.

You know, at one point, Antoine Fuqua was going to direct American Gangster and it was going to be Benicio del Toro and Denzel Washington. I was going to be in it as well and I was going to be benicio del toro and denzel washington i was going to be in it as

well and i was going to get to get to work with uh um denzel well maybe denzel's listening and he's probably just like he got waiting on the edge of his seat i'm furious that there hasn't been a he got game sequel really yeah what would be? Well, I'd like to know Jesus Shuttleworth. He's basically in year 20 right now. He's like Kobe Bryant holding on. Right. At the end, some stuff's happened. And is Denzel in prison? I think Denzel has... He got out?

Not only did he get out, I think he's managing Jesus' career and I think he had some bad investments that he's hiding from Jesus and he lost a lot of his money. I think he had some bad investments that he's hiding from Jesus. And he lost a lot of his money. I think I brought this up before. Dr. J and the Fish That Saved Pittsburgh versus Bernard King in Fast Break.

No, Bernard King in Fast Break is the best acting performance anyone's done. He played pool in that movie. He did other stuff. But as far as the basketball scenes. Oh, the basketball. Doc. Bernard's really good in fast break. A lot of running two-handers.

But that dunking sequence with Doc in the suit and the sneakers in the Fish and City Pittsburgh. That was amazing. He did dunk on a date. He took his girl on a date to a playground. A montage. So, did you see the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar doc? I did. Did you have Kareem on this here yet a montage. So did you see the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar doc? I did. Did you have Kareem on this here yet?

I have not. Do you want Kareem? You bashed him in your book. I said he was the third best player of all time. Oh, that's not bad. I fought the case for Kareem. Oh, okay. Did you fight the case for him

or did you shit on him? No. I shit on him the whole book and then when it got to actually talk about how great he was, I admitted how great he was. Would you love to have Kareem on here? Like, wouldn't you love to interview Kareem? I would, but he's so...

I mean, I had issues with that documentary. Especially like... You know, I was involved. I gave notes on it. Yes, of course. I know. The only thing I didn't like about it was... The NBA was in real trouble in the late 70s.

Right. For a variety of reasons. Drugs. Drugs. Fighting. That whole narrative of the league's too black. Right. White fans.

That was real shit. That was like real stuff. Right. No stars. CBS wasn't showing enough games. ABA. Cable wasn't there yet. Right. There were all these reasons why the league was in the tank.

But one of the biggest ones was that Kareem was by far the best player in the league. And it sucked to see him in person. Because he was so sort of... I went to those games. You probably saw Kareem in person. Yeah. You weren't like... What do you mean it sucked, though?

Just the way his disposition? All right. Did your dad take you to games as a kid? Yes. I was young though. I was young. Alright, so we had season tickets and they would come once a year, maybe twice a year. I don't remember how many times, but I was never like skipping to the Boston

Garden to go see Kareem play. But you're a Celtics guy. No, it wasn't that. I used to love seeing David Thompson, George Kervin, Maravich, all the best players. I loved seeing them. Doc? So then why? So what was it?

Because you couldn't connect with them. But the thing that- You sat in the stands and he was like this cyborg who just shot the skyhook. He had goggles on. He had no- There was no performance to him at all. Right. I always thought the best basketball players, there's a performance to him at all right I always thought like the best basketball players

there's a performance aspect I got you right like LeBron shows up in LA he's like you guys are here to see me I'm gonna put on a show

for you guys I got you Kareem was like I wish all of you weren't here I got you I'm gonna get my 34 and I'm gonna get my 12 rebounds

and it would have been much more fun for me if the gym was empty right now the thing that I like and that's that's a real thing. I think that was a real reason why the league was having trouble in the 70s. Because the best player was –

The best player in the league was not fun to watch. And then Magic made him fun to watch. The thing that I liked about the doc – And I've had this weird thing with Kareem because I've always – Whenever I've been around him for celebrity stuff, I've always gone out of my way to try to connect with him and make him laugh and when I used to do the rock and jock games the MTV rock and jock games he coached the games and I would be in his ear I was 23 24 25 and I'd be in his ear making trying to make him laugh and I and I and I inevitably did the thing that I loved about the doc and the

thing that I thought was interesting about it is because you're saying about the performance and the connecting and it's like you know what not everybody is like that it's true you know and like not everybody's gonna come on your podcast give you the blood and and and and and and and come hot on hopped up on coffee the way i am and not coughing and dropping coughing all that shit so but like for kareem like he just wasn't that guy and like when the thing about the doc is like he never was that guy. I know, but this is the, this is the conversation

that should have been in the doc. About his personality. But don't you think it kind of showed it? It was like, this is now, no, but the real doc, but by the way, I'm glad the doc happened.

Right. I thought it was really interesting. I think anybody who likes basketball should 100% watch this doc. Kareem's a complicated guy crazy life i understood him better afterwards there were things i forgot but fundamentally the conversation needed to be have like he's at he's now underrated and that was the cut that was the big theme i played in my book is like this guy by any calculation is one of the three best players

of all time right now you might say LeBron when he gets there. Maybe LeBron gets in there. But Kareem's career from 69 to 80? Ridiculous. That career alone, he's one of the 10 best players of all time. And then he has this whole other act. 81, 82, 83, 84, all the way through 89. Right.

He's this whole other decade. Right. Where he's 24 and10 and 24-8. In 85, he's the best player in the finals. He won a finals MVP in 71 and 85. 14 years apart, which is impossible. It's crazy. In 87, makes some of the key plays against the Celtics.

But this is the thing. To me, this had to be in the doc. In 88, they're down one to the Pistons. It's game seven. Kareem's like 41. They can't even jump anymore. Right. You know, he's just like, he's at the Kobe stage now, but he's just, he's so good with

the skyhook, the whole thing. Last 20 seconds, who do they run the play for? They're down one in a game seven. They give it to Kareem? They give it to Kareem. And what does he do? He gets fouled and he makes both free throws. And it's like

this guy's one of the three or four greatest players of all time. There's nobody else who at age 41 you could run the deciding play of a season for. Yo, let me ask you a question. All that shit had to be in there. That's tough though. You know the doc thing though. Oh, I know.

Why did they interview You know the doc thing, though. Oh, I know. I know. Why did they interview you in the doc? I have to stay out of that. I have to stay out of that. How were you able to... Have you ever been tested? Are you some kind of savant? Like a basketball savant?

Just in general. Do you have a good memory in general? Can you do movie lines and stuff like that? Or is it just basketball? I have a good movie. I have a good memory. But no, I mean, the fact... I'm always going to pick apart every basketball doc.

You're a basketball doc. Same thing. I had notes on that. Of course. There were some things that drove me crazy. I'm the worst possible audience for a basketball doc. Of course. I just feel like with Kareem, the connection with the fans, or lack thereof, was such a

huge part of that storyline. If you interview him on here, if you do get Kareem, can I just sit on the couch? Because I think your personality and his personality, but if I throw in some zingers and some zaggers, it can be epic. A free man. No, no, I'm just over on the couch.

I'm not even mic'd up. He's got a good sense of humor. And his pop culture and his music, like, and I just, I just think he's. Well, you know what? My real animosity for him, he whipped an elbow at the legend. As he should have. In game five. They talked about that on there.

Or game four in 84. He did whip an elbow at the legend. Like, he really could have hurt the legend. But he didn't. At that point, I can't forgive you for that. But the legend, like, and everybody was already scared of him. Because they saw the Bruce Lee movies. You're like, does he really know karate?

Does he not know karate? Like, can he really do some damage? The Ken Benson thing? Like, yeah, he whipped the leg. You know what the doc left out? Dennis Autry knocked him out. Knocked out Kareem? Or knocked him down.

Yes. He decked him. Yes. I didn't see that in the doc, but I did see the part where Kareem decked somebody else. Yes. Yes. See, that's the thing. I think it's tough with these sports docs. And maybe I'm too close to it. the doc but i did see the part where kareem decks somebody else yes yes so that's the thing i think

it's tough with these sports docs um and maybe i'm too close to it and clearances and money and every every when you make a deal with somebody like you may hey kareem we're gonna do a doc about you now he's involved and he's gonna end up shaping some of the doc you're stuck at that it's tough you know and it's like thought, I really thought it was worth seeing. And my favorite part of the whole doc, they went, you know, everybody forgets how awesome he was in game five, 1980. Yes. Against the Sixers.

He sprains his, it's series tied 2-2. Sprains his ankle. First of all, that whole series was like tape delayed. Yes. All those games. I didn't, I love basketball. I didn't watch any of those games. I was asleep.

But game five, really bad ankle sprain. Right. Limps back in. He ends up with like 40 and 16. Makes every big shot down the stretch. And his ankle swells up to the point he can't fly for game six. If that's anybody else, we're talking about that forever. But people didn't like Kareem.

And they're like, well, screw that. And Magic won the MVP. Magic won the MVP and shouldn shouldn't have and graciously admitted that in the doc he should not have kareem was the mvp of that finals but what about that footage of the footage of on the plane going in the scarf on the hat that was incredible and the way he was talking me too that was the best part of the doc that was like that and he had like a personality i agree i agree that's that i was just gonna say the same thing he was like yo we got the best part of the doc. I love that. And he had like a personality. I agree. I agree. I was just going to say the same thing. He was like, yo, we got the champagne. We got the woman.

We got the ladies for y'all. The way he was talking. And I agree. I agree. It's a good doc. I really liked it. I think all the HBO docs are good. Well, that one, if you're a basketball fan, you have to watch it.

You might have your opinions one way or the other, but it's a must watch. And when they do the Showtime Lakers and they put on the Brothers Johnson song, Stomp, I was like, oh shit. I said, oh shit. Alone I said, oh shit, and now I'm saying it again for the third time right on this show.

And the 11-year-olds that like Bill Simmons and their fathers continue listening to it. Letting me see some nine-year-olds. Okay, your kids are already watching and doing things on the computer and the phone that they shouldn't be. Trust me, this is nothing compared to what they were doing.

Hold on. You know, I was at the Forum Club once. Arsenio Hall took me to the Forum Club in 1983. Wait, can you hold this thought? Yeah, go ahead. Our friends at Squarespace make it easy to build

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Squarespace is real. I like Squarespace. Bill, let me ask you a question. Hold on. I had a Magic Johnson like Squarespace. Bill, let me ask you a question. Hold on. I had a Magic Johnson story for you. Okay, good. Your Magic Johnson story isn't going to be as good as mine, but give me the Magic Johnson story.

And then I need to ask you questions because everybody has questions for you. And since you said you're the David Letterman and you will not go in other people's pockets and I have so many questions for you and I only get texts when I'm begging and pleading to come on here. I have to ask you questions because, you know, at the end of the day, I am just a big Bill you. And I only get texts when I'm begging and pleading to come on here. I have to ask you questions. Because, you know, at the end of the day, I am just a big Bill Simmons fan. I appreciate that. So I did a year of TV with Magic, which was the best.

Wait, you did what? I did a year of TV with Magic, Wilbon, and Jalen. Yes. And basically I had Magic trapped in a room for like eight, nine hours on a Friday. And he loves it too, right? Seven, eight on a Sunday. And we're just watching games. They have all these tiny TVs and you're just sitting there and it's boring.

And you're just kind of watching games and thinking of a couple of things to say. And about a month in, I realized like this Matt is one of the five greatest players ever. He's passed all these people, passed through his life. He was in a lot of big battles. I'm just going to start. Every time I'm here, I'm going to ask him one question I've always wanted to know about. We would ask him stuff. And it was really interesting hearing him talk about Kareem.

What did he say? I don't want to talk out of school and talk about stuff Magic told us in the room. I'm not going to do that. It was just the one thing that stood out was he was like sometimes Kareem would get in a mood in a good way where he was fired up for a game for whatever reason. And he would come on the bus and the team would kind of sense what kind of mood he was in. And there was a certain type of mood where they were like oh oh boy those boys are getting it tonight and it was just the

way he talked about it it was he was like talked about it like a basketball fan i'm sure just kind of happened to be on the team and be teammates with him but it wasn't like he was talking about it like a teammate right it was the thing i loved about magic and why it drove me crazy that people thought i would have wanted to be with him the only reason i wanted to come back the biggest reason was to be in that room with him again because i love being i love me will bond and jay like we had so much fun talking about basketball but the best thing about him was he loves basketball magic magic loves it like loves it you can trick him into talking about basketball anytime anytime like i i was at a birthday it was the best i i ran into him at a

birthday party we had a mutual friend and and he was telling me stories i literally i was like he just said larry bird he just said larry he didn't even say larry bird he said larry or he said and you could you could just sort of throw him and you and like and you could see his wife Cookie she's just she's just like numb to it she's heard of it but you know what the thing about Magic that I mean like he he love I he loves basketball I feel this I honestly feel this way after spending a year with him I think he loves basketball the most absolutely I don't know who number two is but I think he's number one I think he loves it the most he loves it the most and you know what the thing about I was at the last time I is, but I think he's number one. I think he loves it the most. He loves it the most. And you know what the thing about, I was at, the last time I saw Magic, and I've run into

him over the years, I was at this birthday party. He was sort of trapped in the corner of a thing, of a table. And every single person that came over to him, every woman that came over to him to greet him, every person that came over to greet him, and he's 6'9". It's hard enough to get up at 6'9". He's giant. You forget how giant he is. He's huge.

He's a giant man. He would stand up, shake their hand. Nicest guy. People are coming over to him. I mean, he's just a special person. And what a life. What a life. He's one of the most special people I've met.

But there was a couple moments just during that season. Especially, we weren't there for the last two rounds, right? I think we were Western Conference finals, but in the finals. But the finals that we did was Spurs-Heat. Right. Which was one of the greatest finals of all time. And we're sitting there watching on a set. And there's a couple times he got so excited.

Because sometimes he's watching passively. But he really turned into a fan. And this is why I love Doug Collins, too. He was the same way. They loved it. We would stand next to each other, and he'd be hitting me on my leg. He'd be so excited by what was happening in the game.

And that's like, it makes sense. These are why people are successful, because they love basketball like that. Now, I don't know if Kareem loves basketball that way. But he doesn't need to. When you're tall, it's like you kind of have to play. Yeah, but that's the thing, though. You don't need to.

You don't need to. But he loved it enough to play until he was 40-something years old. Right. That's the thing. It's like not everybody's going to be magic. Larry Bird, you've met him. I mean, I've never met him. I've never seen him in real life.

Do you want him over here to hang out and watch uh you know the godfather no i think what you want to do with him is you want to have like an like a six-pack exactly and you want to have cigarettes for him exactly i feel like he's still him and obama are my two secret smokers yes i agree obama claims he hasn't smoked in five years or six years or whatever i still feel like he sneaks a couple and you know what so be it yeah but i'm not holding against him but but not everybody it's it's like robert de niro well let's talk about like listen i you know talk about trying to make him like i this is my he's what he's my uh he's my guy you know people wouldn't say he's mr personality you know what i'm saying like i'd rather probably there's so many other you know actors that would probably be more storytellers than you could get more stuff from but it's not everybody's going to

be uh George Clooney not everybody's going to be as affable and as approachable as uh Clooney is you know who's who's winning De Niro versus Pacino for you right now that's tough it's the bird versus magic of acting. It is tough. Pacino was really good in Danny Collins. I thought it was over, and then Danny Collins was excellent. Did you see, and what was the thing, Angels, the- He was good in that. Great in that.

Apparently, De Niro was good in the weird Anne Hathaway movie, which I didn't see. Yes, because he was vulnerable. We're 20 years too young for that movie to go see it in the theater yes but i did see it because i heard he was good in it and i just but this is your craft you have to see every movie i don't have to see every movie but you think it's straight out of compton loved it i really loved it how did they nail the three guys all three guys like that should have gone wrong with somebody like they got it should have been terrible easy terrible. Eazy-E, one of those three should have been terrible. They did it.

All three of them were really good. I think they did it. And I think the fact that Ice Cube and Dr. Dre, and I think that them being really, really hands-on and really on top of it. I mean, Ice Cube's son was freaky how good he looked. So good. And the Eazy-E actor was awesome.

I really, I loved it. And by the time it came out, I had heard it was so great, so great, so great. I was like, there's no way it's going to live up to it. Now, I'm not saying it's goodfellas, but it's really, really, really good and very entertaining, very informative. It took on a long chunk of time, and I thought it was really good. I really liked it. And it's going to have an incredible HBO or Cinemax or Showtime wherever whatever cable channel gets it you'll be able to jump in at

any time I agree in the Detroit scene which Jalen Rose was in the house for that concert right I which is incredible but uh the Detroit scene F the police the whole thing like it was good it was really. I was very happy. I don't never believe the narrative that they might have gotten back together. That felt a little movie. Seemed like there was enough bad blood there at the end. I've heard the lyrics in the chronic, and I don't see Easy E coming back from that. I think it was a conversation.

But I thought it was... Now the thing, the problem is now they're like like they want to do this movie and do that movie. And it's like the reason why that was a good movie is because it was it had good people involved at Ice Cube and Dr. J. But Ice Cube's made great movies. He's made not great movies. He's directed like he understands what he's doing. And, you know, and and the director was I just thought it was handled well. I don't know what the next hip hop movie is going to be, but I hope they don't just beat them into the ground

and start making them like every single group makes them because it's not going to just poof happen. I personally would rather see a Tupac documentary done. It's been done though. No, but like how Gibney did the Sinatra. Like really do it versus a movie where somebody tries to match the charisma that he had because I don't think it's possible. I agree.

It's like Muhammad Ali. It's the Muhammad Ali movie. As good as Will Smith is, Muhammad Ali... He was still Will Smith. And Muhammad Ali is still more entertaining than Will Smith will ever be. He's still the most entertaining person ever, and the most charismatic, the best looking, shockingly, just like everything about him, you're just hanging.

So as good as Will was, it's still not. You almost need a prop. Like Jamie Foxx was good in Ray because you get to hide behind the sunglasses and it's almost like you're wearing a Halloween mask in a way. And it's not, when it's just like, you're trying to be somebody that is so indelibly etched in people's brains.

Ali, you can't be Ali. It's impossible. No, you can't be Ali. It's impossible. No, you can't be Ali. You can't. Marlon Brando, on his best day, couldn't be, he wasn't as good as Muhammad Ali. He's the most entertaining, charismatic, he's the star of all stars.

Now, I'm going to ask you questions. What the fuck is going on? When are we going to see you on HBO? What are we doing? Give it to me. Now, I'm not plugging you because you won't come on the I Am Rap War podcast. I want to know what is going on with you. It's like a secret over here.

What's going on? What are we doing? Tell me what's happening. That sounds like the intro to our biggest mailbag question ever presented by our old friend Stamps.com. Going to the post office is a miserable experience from start, presented by our old friend Stamps.com. Okay. Going to the post office is a miserable experience from start to finish. Oh, yeah. It really is. Have some self-respect.

Use Stamps.com. Absolutely. You can buy and print official U.S. postage for any letter or package using your own computer and printer. Even better, if you sign up for Stamps.com, use the promo code BS. You save money. How much do you save? A four-week trial.

You get a $110 bonus offer. It includes postage and a digital scale. Go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in BS. That's stamps.com, enter BS. Absolutely. Who wants to go to the post office? The HBO show's going to be sometime next spring. I've got to hire people for it.

But what is it going to be? Tell me what's going to be now. Tell me what's the the idea of it because here's what it can't be it can't be real sports which me and you both love i love real sports it's not going to be and it's there's not it's not going to be like a live audience where it's done linear all that it's going to has to be different than the other shows they have so so just give me some insight into like a reference of it and and if it starts in the spring or is it going to be nba is it going to be weekly is it going to be monthly i have these things not be figured not been figured out people people want to know i i mean i truly want

to know like people might think they're listening like oh he's trying to plug no i want to know i had to come over to your house did i did have other podcast guests on this version of your podcast? Who is vied to be on this podcast solely to ask these questions more than me? Who texts you, yo, Bill, I want to be on your podcast more than me? I don't have answers yet. Have you changed your phone number? Because the texts aren't getting returned. Like, what the fuck's going on, Bill?

It's my Blackberry. I dropped it. Yeah, because now I know where you live. I'll just be out there. Oh, shit. I'll wait outside your house. I don't see you around the neighborhood at the Starbucks anymore. I don't go to Starbucks anymore.

I'm out. I'm out on Starbucks. Whoa. You don't drink coffee or you don't go to Starbucks? No, I don't go to Starbucks. I'm out. I'm done with Starbucks. Why?

A Seattle Sonics fan made me feel guilty about it. What the hell are you talking about, man? The Starbucks murdered the Sonics in Seattle. The guy who owns Starbucks, Howard Schultz, sold the team to the OKC people who were clearly going to move the team and were pretending they weren't. And he ruined the Sonics in Seattle. Listen, Howard Schultz could sell my kids. I'm still going to Starbucks.

I'm not saying I've ruled out Starbucks completely, but I try not to go if I have other options. So coffee bean or? Peets. I like Peets. I'll try that. Peets is really good. There's something about the cup, the Starbucks cup. That is nice.

But I do think they put stuff in there that makes you addicted to it. For sure. For sure. I'm whacked out on it. The Volkswagen scandal with the diesel cars? Yes. Where it was like they were cheating on the engines? Yes.

Like, I wouldn't be shocked if Starbucks figured out a way to Jedi mind trick you into drinking the Starbucks. You know what's pathetic about me and Starbucks? Because I see Starbucks, I get the shakes. Yeah. And at night, I think about my Starbucks the next morning. I'm like, what am I going to get? Which Starbucks am I going to go to? Because I have different Starbucks for different sort of...

Yeah, it's delicious. See, now I want a Starbucks. This is what they do. It is like, it's definitely doing something. But I like Pete's. Pete's has been really good to me lately. I'll try it. I'll try it.

Try some Pete's. A little stronger. Now, you're being evasive. No, I'm not being evasive. I want to know some information. I don't have any answer. It's hard for me to say... Are you excited?

Nervous? A little bit of both? I'm super excited. I just want to make sure I hire the right people because I'm a very collaborative person. And I want to plan out the show with the right people. And that's who I'm trying to find right now. So it's not until the spring? It might not be until June.

I don't know. Is that on you? Is that on HBO? No. It'll be whenever. You know, you don't want to rush a show. A weekly show or a monthly show? No, weekly.

Weekly show for like a set period of time, then you take a break. I think I'm doing 20 episodes next year. 20 straight. No, I don't know if it'll necessarily be 20 straight. Five, take a week off. It could be like eight and 12, 10 and 10, 12 and 8, something like that. I want the damn show. It's got to work.

It's going to work. A lot of people watching. Yeah. Can we get back to basketball? Yeah, let's get back to it. Because we're almost out of time. Yeah. It's like 10 hours. Yeah, we're watching. Yeah. Can we get back to basketball? Yeah, let's get back to it. Because we're almost out of time. Yeah. It's like 10 o'clock.

Yeah. Let's get back to basketball. Gun to your head right now. All the memorabilia in here right now. All the posters. The white shadow posters. The fast break posters. This cool thing of Wilt Chamberlain.

I don't know what that is, but that's dope. Gun to your head. Who is in the NBA Finals right now? Based on what you know and the injuries that aren't happening knock on wood thank god i hate seeing these players go down i can't it breaks my heart the levion bells these terrible every sport watching football i don't there's something's going on i don't i don't feel like there are this many injuries when we were growing up i agree feels it feels different i but even in the NBA, I mean, I hate seeing it.

And to be honest with you, I just want Kobe, you know, I think at a certain point this year he'll catch a rhythm. I just want him to be able to finish the season. Gun to your head, all this memorabilia goes. You don't think Kobe will retire? At the end of the year? No, during the season. Shit.

I didn't even consider that. I don't think he'll do that. You don't think he'll say that i think he'll say like in january like hey lakers he won't step aside let the young guys play pay me the rest of my time no i don't think he'll do that i think he'll play the rest of the season i love kobe i love kobe and i've went through like kobe i think i talked about this the last time i was on your podcast um uh kobe and kanye west it's like you go through love hate phases with him like i love kobe i love kanye The last time I was on your podcast, Kobe and Kanye West. It's like you go through love-hate phases with them. Like, I love Kobe.

I love Kanye. I can't fucking stand Kanye. I love Kobe. I love Kanye. I can't stand. But now, like, Kobe's on the other side of it where it's like, I just love, love, love, appreciate everything he did and his game and his doc even though it was controlled by him it was to me more about a guy an artist searching for greatness more so than anything and the fact that he's so dedicated to searching for that great painting that great note that great dance move that's what that's what like he's so to me it's like what is he gonna do after basketball because he he like he's so, to me, it's like, what is he going to do after basketball? Because he, like, you saw like his obsession with it.

But I feel like his body, I think he's going to come to terms with it. And I think he's more friendly now. I think he's, you know, he's somebody when he first came in the league, he had the looks. You thought he was very approachable, but he wasn't really. He was sort of like this basketball savant. Same with Kanye West. Like, he's like this music savant. So I think they have similar sort of like this basketball savant Same with Kanye West He's like this music savant So I think they have similar sort of

Well the interesting thing with Kobe is His experiences he had that led to the NBA He's in Italy Right He's the only child Right I think he's an only child right? No he's got a sister

Oh does he? I think she's real fine too He's wired like an only child He's wired like an only child He thinks he's an only child Kobe you have a sister And I think she's fine, too. And then they move back from Italy to Philly.

Right. And he's supposed to. He's there for like a year. And then all of a sudden, year, two years, all of a sudden, he's like the number one high school guy. Right. And he's supposed to be cool. And then he's in the NBA.

Crazy. And then he's playing with Shaq. Exactly. It's a crazy life. And then he's Nick Van Exel and all these people. And he's in the spotlight Yeah And that's

I Didn't really seem like He eased into any part of that No Which is tough But he had the looks And he played like Jordan Would you say it's like a child actor?

It is like a child actor It's like It is like a child actor It's like a savant It's like this All he knows is basketball But he wants to be Michael Jordan He

It is like a child actor Kobe You know Leo a little bit, right? Yes. Did you ever run with Leo? Play ball with him? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know Leo. What about him? Cool. Let me tell you something. Imagine if Leo got the Titanic in 1990. Right. How does the rest of his career turn out? He was able to ease into the Titanic.

He made all these movie choices he did this boy's life and he had that whole phase Gilbert Grape he did the basketball diaries and then Titanic kind of eased into it and then his big movie he was kind of ready different thing though but Kobe immediately had the Titanic he's on the

Los Angeles Lakers with Shaq and he's 18 yes but a little different because there's something about Leonardo where... Oh, I like how you called him Leonardo. Because I feel like Leo's too familiar. I felt like you were buddies with him. No, no. We're cool.

We're friends and shit. I'm friendly with him. I mean, we're not day to day. But I fuck with him. And I have such a love and respect for him because he to me handles himself and the fame and the stuff in in in the most impressive way and you'd be hard-pressed to find out of all the people he's come across out of all the girls that he's been with and he's been with them all he's broken every record except yeah except for like three maybe three in the planet yeah but but and

all the films and the hundreds of people that you work with on this film and that film and this actor, be hard pressed to find, you never hear anything bad about him. Yeah. He has a disposition. He gets it. He handles himself in a way he appreciates it. And that's why, like he's like, him and Derek Jeter have this sort of similar thing. Like they just understood it.

And when you talk about a world-class coxswain, okay, now the 11-year-olds that are listening to this with their father, Leonardo is a world-class stick man. He's one of the, he will go down in history as probably the best stick man of all time. And so I don't know how I got on that.

Stick man. A true stick man. And you know where I got that term? I didn't realize he was soon is that gonna pull you know where i got that term stick man from when i did cop land with sylvester stallone he called burgess meredith he said you know he was a real stick man right you know he was a world-class stick man and i was like first of all the fact that he's saying this about mickey threw me off um And the fact that I had got... Wow, you just ruined all the Rockies for me. Yo, he said Burgess Meredith is a stick man.

He said he put in work. So Burgess, like he said that. He said, oh, you know he was a world-class stick man, right? He took a crack at Adrian? I couldn't, but who knows? Lying in the hospital bed in Rocky II? Yeah, Burgess. Burgess.

What are we waiting for? Are you going to go see Apollo? The Creed movie? Yeah, is it Creed or Apollo? How do you... We know each other pretty well at this point. Of course I'm going to see the Creed movie. What are you talking about?

Reluctantly? Alone? With your kids? No, I'm in on Michael B. On a Friday? I love MBJ. No, no, I'm not saying he... Me too, I think he's a great actor, but at a certain...

And a good director, too. Who's directing it? The guy who did Fruitvale, Ryan Coogler. Listen, this is no disrespect to Michael B. Jordan, and no disrespect to the guy who did Fruitvale. Great film, great director, but for me, you know, it hurt me to go see Rocky VI. It killed me. Well, how about Rocky V? Rocky V had some moments

Rocky V, get up, you son of a bitch Because Mickey loves you The stick man Mickey was in heaven, like, banging Ava Gardner Oh, he was doing his thing That's from Stallone That is from Stallone He said, you know he's a world-class stick man

I was like, no, I didn't know that But I remember when he said that to me The thing from Stallone that he said, you know he's a world-class stick man. I was like, no, I didn't know that. But I remember when he said that to me. The thing, Stallone, when I was working with him, we would do lines from Rocky 1, 2, 3, 4. I would throw lines at him like I was Rocky and he was Paulie. It got to the point where the director, James Mangold, was like, you can't talk to him anymore. Don't speak to him anymore.

We're not doing Rocky. We would do it from across the set. He was like was like don't do that he's doing something else now he would give all the he gave me every story i asked for about every single rock movie carl weathers everything carl weathers is mad when he got killed in rocky four as he should have yeah he's furious and i'm sure he's i'm sure stallone's regretting it now because it would have made... Because I've had enough. And again, I fuck with Michael Jordan. And Fruitful was a great film. But it's like, enough.

Enough. Enough of it. And Rocky VI, when they had Maria from the Atomic Hoagie spot. Get the real Maria. I want the real Maria. I didn't like Rocky VI. Me neither. I don't watch it when it comes out.

It was tough. It was really hard to watch. I'll tell you this much, though. For a man that brought as much joy as he did in my life, Slash Stallone, he can do whatever he wants. Have you ever had him on here? No, I'd probably be freaked out. No, he'd give you everything.

Really? You'd give him the Burgess Meredith? Ask him. Say, I heard Burgess Meredith was a stick man. He'll go, oh, yeah. He'll say it like that's a common fact. Like, you didn't know that? And then say, well, where do you get a stick man. He'll go, oh, yeah. He'll say it like that's common fact. Like, you didn't know that? And then say, well, where do you get this information from?

He'll give it to you. He gave it to me. He didn't go into details. I was so shocked that he called. And you think about when he worked with Burgess Meredith, he must have been 67 years old. So is this something that Burgess was doing during Rocky? Or did he find this out about him in the past? It's clear that he made a move on Adrian.

He must have. That's my interpretation. You mean Talia Shire. Like Sly had to be like, yo. You need to get Stallone on here. You gotta stay away from Talia. You gotta get Stallone on here. I would love it.

35th anniversary, December. I'm just throwing this because I know we're running out of time. No, we're out of time. 35th anniversary, this December, the greatest film, the greatest sports film of all time, Raging Bull, came out in 1980. And it's going to pass. I've tried everything I can to try to do something.

The most influential film, cinematically, and the most influential performance ever. I think it's the best made sports film ever. I don't think it's the greatest sports movie ever. What's the greatest sport? Don't say Hoosiers. To be the greatest sports movie ever, you have to be rewatchable. Raging Bull. I don't want to watch Raging Bull for the 90th time.

Oh, great. Here's the part where Jake LaMotta hits his wife. That movie's not rewatchable. I'm sorry. It's brilliant. It's a brilliant piece of movie making. No, no, no, no, no That movie's not rewatchable. I'm sorry. It's brilliant. It's a brilliant piece of movie making. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not home at 10 o'clock at night going, oh, cool, Raging Bull's on.

No, no, no, no, no. But if Jimmy Chitwood's going to tell everybody he's going to play but Coach has to stay, I'm in. I'm in for the next hour. I see the thing about Rocky III when Adrian's on the beach with him and what's happened to you. What are we going to lose gonna lose we have cars we have money why what are you afraid of i'm scared i'm scared you want to break me down i'm scared i'm

scared okay well let's talk about this yeah paula wants to see you do it mickey wants to see you do it i want to see you do it given couldn't they see you do it. I want to see you do it. Couldn't they have put Apollo in a coma in Rocky IV? And then he comes out. Comes out at the end. He's watching it with Rocky's kids. Does he have to die? I feel like that was a...

If I'm a studio exec, I'd talk Rocky out of that. Like, look, don't kill Apollo. Just put him in a coma. He'll come out of it. Yeah. Sooner or later, you're going to want him to come out of it. Mickey needed to die. Mickey, they didn't need to move onkey i i i have so much rocky shit uh you you should you

should do something for do you think clubber should have been in in uh put in jail for what for he basically killed mickey yeah he should be put in jail for that clubber lang like what do we have more evidence that suge knight killed tupac Or that Clubber Lang killed Mickey Clubber Lang He shoved Mickey Yeah he pushed him And Mickey died within like an hour and a half Mick

Mick No charges filed No charges filed He shoved a 110 year old man A stick man A 110 year old stick man Mickey should have had a whole run in a nursing home where he was just... Absolutely.

They should have had him in there. Just plowing through like a bunch of 98-year-olds. What a unique, incredible actor, though. Burgess Meredith. The usage of the voice. But I just want to say another thing about Raging Bull. We have to go. I disagree with what you're saying.

Because you could watch that movie just for the cinematography. Yeah. It's a masterpiece. If I'm an actor or director... it's great i'm with you it's the best made sports movie ever it's not the best sports movie ever though but it might be the best made film i think fast break was better you're crazy it might be the best made film influential beyond sports films do you understand like if you talk to directors like before good fellas like everything he did in Goodfellas, he did in Raging Bull. Fast Break foreshadowed all the corruption in college basketball in the 1980s.

Where is Gabe Kaplan? Has he ever been on here? Yeah, he... Do you not follow him on Twitter? He tweets during the World Series of Poker. We have to go. All right. Do you have anything to plug?

The I Am Rapable podcast. Other than cough medicine? You coughed, like, the entire podcast. No, this was the flu podcast. The only reason why, I'm sick, but I made it over here. This is like the flu podcast. I feel like fumigate the microphone. No, no, definitely get rid of this thing.

I'll sign it and then you put it in your memory. You don't want anybody else. Who's coming on next? Will two days be enough? Maybe I'll put in a septic on it. Just put it in like a hot bath or something like that and some sea salt. And you realize i'm gonna edit out all your espn questions right are you really yeah the questions yeah all of it i'm gonna edit the whole thing out just telling you now fuck all right fine the people want it but not the hbo stuff the questions of the fans stuff

i'll keep yeah it's fine are you doing the editing? Yeah, Tate, you're going to leave. I'm going to tell Tate we're taking all that out. Fuck Tate. Nothing to plug. Nothing to plug. Public Morals is on VOD. 25th anniversary of Laserdisc of Zebrahead. 25th anniversary of Laserdisc of Zebrahead. Do they still make Laserdiscs?

No, I wish they did. Laserdiscs were the best. The cover art of Laserdiscs were excellent. That's the thing we lost when everything got small and now everything's just online, but the coolness

of like a record album. Awesome. And just, you know, like now it's like, like look at my beautiful Fast Break record album over there.

It's great. I love that. It's a piece of art. Yeah, it is. Michael Rapaport, a pleasure. Come back when Porzingis wins Rookie of the Year? No. No, but if he hits 10 threes in a game, a pleasure. Come back when Porzingis... Wins Rookie of the Year?

No. No, but if he hits 10 threes in a game, you have to come back. For sure. Okay. Thanks to Stamps.com for sponsoring today's BS podcast. There's a better way than dealing with the post office people. Forget the post office people. Go to Stamps.com, get a four-week trial that includes a $110 bonus offer, free postage,

and a digital scale. Go to Stamps.com, click on that microphone and a digital scale. Go to stamps.com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage. Type in BS. That's stamps.com. Enter BS. Thanks to SeatGeek, the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast. SeatGeek is the best.

Check it out. SeatGeek. SeatGeek. Great app. Download it. And then also thanks to HBO because they were nice enough to give me my own television show that launches next spring. We can't wait. That I can't wait

for. Don't forget about the Canelo Cotto 24-7 that's been running all month. Don't forget about the pay-per-view November 21st and then it re-airs November 20th. You're not going to the pay-per-view, are you? No, but one of the things that I love about 24-7 and I'm a fan of Liev Schreiber and I'm actually doing a movie right now

that he's doing, the Chuck Wepner movie, The Real Rocky. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I don't know how he changes his voice for his 24-7. Or his narration voice is different than any other voice. It's really impressive. If you listen to Liev Schreiber narrate anything on HBO, it's different than his Ray Donovan voice. So he doesn't be like, Michael, I thought we would go to Starbucks.

No, he doesn't. It's like different. Would you like a latte? Because I didn't know it was Liev Schreiber for years. And like his Ray Donovan, his regular speaking voice isn't like his narration voice.

We have to go. Play us out, Tupac. We about this bitch. Anytime y'all want to see me again, rewind this track right here, close your eyes, and picture me rollin'.