The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 31: Michael B. Jordan

Episode Date: November 25, 2015

HBO's Bill Simmons talks to 'Creed' star Michael B. Jordan about his bond with Carl Weathers (4:00 mark), the 'Rocky' franchise (7:00), Stallone's Oscar-worthy performance (13:00), Cotto-Canelo ringside reactions (21:00), mimicking top flight acting talents (28:00), 'The Wire' vs. 'Friday Night Lights' (34:00), Ryan Coogler's creative touch on 'Creed' (44:00), future projects (54:00) and a modern Rom-Com starring alongside Jennifer Lawrence (1:04:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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simply safe bill calm here we go yeah hey I figured it like that I love that this is like the 387th interview Michael B. Jordan has done but this will be one of the most fun ones

you know what I'm glad I'm wrapping up my press tour with you so this is is this a wrap up this is a wrap up this is my last day this is it

last day of press man we've been going strong for a few weeks about two three weeks and yeah this is a you really when did they when she did the gq thing gq i mean we shot that a long time ago yeah yeah so you've been in like three months yeah yeah solid is this the most you've done by far i think um with fantastic four you know we definitely did a lot of press but that was a little bit more condensed and uh um you know uh low-key if you if that makes any any sense but this one would definitely be the most work and the most stops

that i've been through for for sure i should mention that your name is michael b jordan no you're the star of creed among other things that you've done in the past but creed is the big one creed's like you're on the poster. Creed is like my first big, huge lead body transformation. You know, a film that's going to take me all over the world. Yeah, the most eyes are going to be on this project than the other project for sure. So did you consult athletes about how to add muscle to your physique in possibly nefarious ways? How did that work? I think I got lucky.

I got lucky and teamed up with this guy Corey Callie he's a trainer I met him on the set of Fantastic Four and we just literally just got along great and he didn't like work for A-Rod or anything no no okay good good no no no he uh he was a more of an LSU guy than anything but um but no no no no that's another thing I wanted to do it you know straight up you know like i wanted to like i want to put the work in i want to put the time in i didn't want any like shortcuts like whatsoever because i know that your body would eventually tell on itself so for me we that was something one thing that we definitely talked about and we wanted to just be you know as authentic as we could and to look like a boxer so right we linked up uh changed my diet completely

change your diet so what'd you do grilled chicken brown rice gallon a half of water a day and different variations of that so it'd be like steak asparagus brown rice like fish spinach brown brown rice that was literally all i ate so no pizza at like 2 30 in the morning only on sundays oh you're to your cheat day i had one cheat day so that was the only thing that got me through the week was like the little results that you would see and then cheat day on sunday i would get up early goat french toast you know philly i was in philly so philly cheesesteaks were definitely on the menu two to three times a day sometimes on sundays like i i literally ate myself sick on sunday so how do you get feedback because you're already a handsome actor it's not like women are already gonna like you anyway but

like how do you even know stuff's working i mean with the body transformation i'm seeing like an ab i've never saw before oh yeah definitely all so you're checking yourself in a full-length mirror a lot and stuff like that a little bit i think you have to obsess over your body to see real physical change like especially if you're naked in a movie half naked in a movie for 40 of the movie oh for sure i mean you gotta like you know have the roles can't be there. I mean, have you seen Carl Weathers, Apollo Creed, you know, and Rocky, you know, 40 years ago, they were ripped to a T. So I just wanted to come close.

I didn't, you know, I wasn't. You know who doesn't feel this way? Eddie Lacey and the Green Bay Packers, whose belly was jiggling in HD this week. I mean, he was like, he's built for durability, you know what I mean? In the long haul. He's built for getting, you know what I mean? Yeah, he is. In the long haul. He's built for getting tackled by five guys at once. Exactly.

So is Carl Weathers, do you feel like you're related to him now? How does that work? I mean, I think we have a bond now that it will be, you know, that's forever. Did he call you

and say it's okay to call him dad or anything like that? I think at the premiere, he said, listen, son, you did a great job. And I was like,

okay, pops, this is the first time we actually met. But it was a cool, surreal moment because that was the first time he saw the film. And that was the first real conversation that we've ever had. So it was kind of cool for him to tell me about the movie and then for me to just be like, oh, man, it's such an honor. Is he still mad that he got killed off from Rocky IV? He has to be. I did a podcast with him once and I could tell he was still salty about it. I think he kind of let it go now that he saw the finished product, but I don't think he

was. I think he was a little. Because he just could have gone into a coma and come out of it at the end of Rocky IV. Could have been in a wheelchair. Could have watched it from the hospital bed or something. If that would have happened, we wouldn't have had Creed I. All right? True.

So I think in hindsight, him looking back at it, I think he's he's like it was the best for you it was the best for me selfishly i'm actually glad that pop had to go rocky for wait how old are you though now i'm 28 so you weren't even i was so there's some so there's some birthday cheating with this movie like just by like two three years about two years about two years Because you could say maybe he met some... We can give away some of the plot, right? A little bit. People know you're related to Creed. I'm definitely related to Creed, but I never met nor knew my father.

Yeah, I don't feel like we're giving that away. That's general knowledge. Yeah. Okay. So you think like two weeks before the Drago fight, which was supposed to be an exhibition. Yep. Like two weeks before. It was supposed to be an exhibition.

It might have been the night before. Yeah. Okay. Let's just like push it all the way up to the limit. And that started out as a joke and it turned into a disaster. Yeah. Pretty much. As Warner Wolf said in Rocky IV.

I think so. So the night before, he's with some lady trying to unwind. This is all fan fiction, by the way. This is all fan fiction. the way this is all so nine months later so that would put your birthday in like the 1980s yeah i guess it's okay yeah that works late 80s yeah and you're 29 i'm 29 i'm 28 turning 29 in february yeah i was born in 87 so technically so right around there it works because the rocky series has taken liberties with math they have rocky four to rocky five the kid aged eight years while rocky was in russia not a lot of people realize that i'd never come

back and the kid's a teenager for rocky five see sometimes when he left the kid was sick see but you gotta kind of fudge it every once in a while so i think this is a cool this is an okay fudge i think the fans will be okay with this i'm totally fine with it so So, yeah, by the way, so what did you guys decide to do about Rocky V? Like in the movie as an actor, did you pretend Rocky V happened? Because I like to live my life like it never happened. I think Sly feels that way. Sly definitely feels like that.

He's one of the most honest guys possible, especially with himself. He keeps things real and he doesn't really look at V like it counts. But one of the cool things about Adonis is that he never knew his dad he kind of got shunned out of that world completely right so for me as an actor going into it didn't really happen so as you know i'm probably the biggest rocky fan yeah i mean i was

like rocky rocky one i remember seeing the theater i was six okay so that was one of those dad took you just kind of what you? You know what's interesting? Because you don't realize it now because everybody's seen it a million times. But in the theater, it was really confusing whether he won or not. Because they're reading the square cards. And he's just yelling, Adrian! Adrian! And the guy's going, Creed!

1-15-1! Or whatever he says. And everybody wants him to win. So everybody was just like, he must have won. And kind of like got up and got all excited about it. Yeah. So I saw it in the Ded or whatever he says and everybody wants him to win so everybody was just like he must have won and kind of like got up and got all excited about it yeah so we I saw it in the

Dedham movie theater don't ask me how I remember that Massachusetts and we left I'm like so he didn't win so but then

you knew why he didn't win because they needed the sequel they were smart enough to not give it to him but going all the way through Rocky 2 Rocky 3 Rocky 4

so obviously I watched the Epix documentary about the Rocky series that you narr, Rocky 4. So obviously I watched the Epix documentary about the Rocky series. Okay. That was a really good one. That you narrated. Yeah. And that's when I realized Sly had kind of given up on Rocky 5.

He threw it under the bus. He was very honest. He even said like, I should have directed it. I realized after the fact. Like he was, it's a full distance now. I mean, because, I mean, I mean, he knows. I mean, sometimes I think when you get past, you know, the third one, and if you're not making the movies for the right reasons, not for the right reasons, but if it's not about the same heart.

I think the first Rocky was a love story. And then you think you try to keep on to that heart as much as you can, but you always got to try to outdo yourself the one before. So I think that's a natural progression when a film goes two, three, four, five, six. It's hard to keep up with the same heart. So Rocky I's an Oscar winner. Rocky II was a movie that desperately needed an editor and really doesn't get going until Adrian comes out of the coma.

The audience goes into a coma as she's in the coma. But then she comes out. It's one of the best 25-minute sequences ever. I love it. Rocky III, I think the best. Okay. Clever Lane, I think the best. Okay. You like Clever Lane? I mean, that was...

I just think it's the most satisfactory beginning to end, cleanest, most modern Rocky movies. That Thunder Lips. Thunder Lips is definitely there. It's got a real theme about celebrities and fighters and athletes being domesticated. Okay. Getting a lot of success and you get soft. No, you really do. You don't protect your corner anymore.

Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, I think now that mirrors real life. Totally. Yeah, but that's definitely a... Rocky IV ends the Cold War. Which is epic. It literally ended the Cold War. The wall came down two years later.

Stallone doesn't get enough credit for that. Rocky V never happened. Rocky VI, I've come to grips with. It was a little... I mean, he was a little old to be fighting for a title but it's fine but yeah

bad boy works Creed's good thank you Creed's good I mean Ryan does an incredible job I think it comes from all the right places

you know like understanding where the story first came from his relationship with his father and becoming sick you know

seeing somebody that he thought was so strong you know his entire life and then to see him not be able to do the things that he's used to,

having the idea of... You're talking about Ryan. Oh, Ryan. I'm sorry, Ryan Coogler. Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't realize there were parallels with his own family situation in the movie. Oh, for sure.

I mean, that's kind of where the story all stemmed from was Ryan's relationship with his father and his father's relationship with his mom in the Rocky films. Not to, you know... well, Ryan's been talking about it, but Ryan's, you know, dad used to watch the Rocky, you know, the Rocky franchise, the Rocky films with his mom when his mom was passing away. So it was a very special, you know, film to his dad. And as his dad got older and uh got you know misdiagnosed with uh you know als um it was a film that ryan used to watch with his father a lot you know before football games and before uh you know karate matches and stuff like that just to kind of get him motivated to like you know go out there and compete so you know when his dad got sick you know it kind of sparked this idea

in ryan's head, to write a story, to tell a story about his father's hero getting sick and, and, and how, you know, how he would handle that. And, you know, how would, how would Ryan be without his father? Like what kind of relationship would, what kind of man would he be? You know, if he didn't have his dad around, if you never knew this guy that was, you know, looked to be so strong and, um, and that's where it came from. And I think after, you know, he be so strong and um and that's where it came from and i think after you know he pitched the original idea that the idea to you know sly he was very standoffish his first knee jack reaction was to say no you know right like you know rocky's done it's put

the business but you pitched it before your movie ryan pitched it to to to sly and adam vinnett before we started shooting fruitville station so he asked me if i wanted to do this before we shot one frame of fruitville well i remember we did our with the first time you came on the podcast yeah you talked about a creed project yeah very vaguely very vaguely but i remember going oh something i i did my read between the lines i was like oh something's going on something's going on but i mean But everybody was a skeptic. Nobody really thought it made sense until you actually see it. And then I think it... Because at first glance, it's like Rocky VII.

Or you hear Rocky's in it. The Rocky character's back again. It's like, what is this? Oh, they're trying to make another one? Is he in the ring fighting again? But I think this one is as honest as possible. We're paying the respect to time. And the time and the arc of a character you know to being in the ring to making that transition to being in somebody else's corner to being mickey which i

think is which is pretty cool what i wasn't prepared for was how affecting sly is in the movie i knew you'd be good i didn't know who the girl was, but she was great. Tess is amazing. I'd seen her before, but I'd never really gotten the full movie experience with her. But Sly was... Honest. Yeah, I came out of it, and I'm thinking like, look, I love Sly Stallone. I'm all in

on Sly. Is he like a possible Oscar nomination? I don't know what else he could have done in that role. I was really affected by him. He was very vulnerable. And it's a side of Sly and Rocky that nobody's really used to seeing. Not since Copland.

I think his last year was very good. He actually moved toward that Copland type of where he just was very subtle. He basically stripped Rocky of all the... He just didn't do that stuff. Nope. Which was the biggest problem with Rocky V, was he dialed that up too much. Even Rocky VI a little bit. This was, he just played it very stripped down,

which I liked. Yeah, less is more. And you guys had great chemistry. Yeah, man. It was like acting with one of my uncles. Honestly, he has that same rough house storytelling, sit down, grab a beer watch a football game you know just he has that cool kind of older uncle like feeling to him so yeah we got

along great i was worried i wasn't gonna like it and then we'd have to do the podcast and i'd have to like steer toward the nba yeah i can't really lie in podcasts but i would have just been like yeah no creed no i haven't seen him yet. I would have come up with some reason. How about the Warriors this year? Yeah, oh my God. Steph Curry. Do you know Steph Curry? Should have been a lot of that.

So I had Michael Rapaport on a couple weeks ago. I love him. And he had Sly Stallone stories. Okay. And he said they were on Copland. And Rapaport's like on level with me as a Rocky fan. I think anyone who's somewhere between the ages of like 43 and 49, that's the Rocky wheelhouse because you're old enough to remember the first one. But then when Cable, you know, early 80s, there weren't a lot of movies on Cable

and it was just the Rocky marathon, all Rocky III, Rocky IV. They were just always on. Got it. But so Ratport said he would just, every time there was a break in Copland, he would just fire Rocky questions as much as you can i love it and stallone was totally fired up to to talk about it he loves it so he said mickey burgess meredith yeah he cut he said he was a world-class stick man that he he's just got it in with the ladies oh oh like he was like like oh you know you know about bird, the world-class Stickman.

And so he told this story on the podcast, and people went insane that Burgess Meredith was a Stickman. Well, we actually kind of pay a little, you know, there's a little breadcrumb and increase to that. Yeah, yeah, there's a little bit. But did Stallone give you little tidbits like that about the series? Like, were you badgering him between takes, or were just like worried about your own lines and stuff no i think we were just i was more worried about the same but naturally he's a storyteller so he has so many stories to tell like i mean i mean he's lived so much life like yeah his one of his weeks as can outlive somebody's like year you know so like he's always down to tell a story i mean i don't know if those

stories are definitely podcast appropriate. Oh, I think all of them are podcast appropriate. It's just a question of whether you want to tell them. No, that's a great response. No, but he always had a lot of different stories. So I didn't badger him that much, but I just allowed him to kind of just say what he wanted to say about it. Did he ever give you the, yo, kid, I was in your spot once. Let me tell you something. Did that give you the yo kid i was in your spot once let me tell you something

that give you like the words of advice stuff no no i mean he would basically say man look you guys are working too hard you guys are working harder than i did like you oh you would admit it a lot man as far as like the boxing training because i i did all my stunts you know there was there is no stunt double you know and i really wanted to you know become a fighter i didn't want anybody to you know hold anything back and give me any special treatment. Don't throw me in the ring with the guy and let's see what happens. So he was definitely supportive of that and encouraging of the real hits that I had to take. So a lot of the real punches that I had to take, you can thank Sly for that.

Well, he did Rocky IV. I think Dolph Lundgren actually hurt him. Oh, seriously? He legitimately hurt him. He had to go to the hospital and almost died. He got punched in the heart. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. It almost gave him like a, you know, you have CPR, you know, you're like restarting the heart.

He almost got hit and his heart almost restarted on him. Because he figured out, I think Rocky I has not aged well from boxing effects. A lot of missed punches. Oh, for sure. sure you could see the empty seats in the background which by the way they when they re-air these they should CGI seats it should help you cost that much yeah right yeah put some fake fans in there a couple filters

in there Rocky 2 it was clear that they both decided let's really start hitting each other and then that kind of kept going yeah until Rocky 4 where I think I actually think they actually fought in Rocky 4 they might have just said it was a real fight fuck it let's just do it why not then we're not doing another one right no no we're not doing another one yeah yeah but um so i'm glad that you felt you had to honor the tradition of actually but it seems like so you

did i show you the video which one i'm gonna show you me actually getting like this one slow-mo shot and it was the one where you spit the blood i remember that yeah yeah i showed you that one right no but i saw i saw the movie no but i didn't show you like the actual hit like in real time oh no oh man what happened i mean well the first couple times we tried to do it we tried to do it with slips you know and then it's in slow-mo so you can see the the misses the space yeah between the punches so all you all of a sudden you just hear this snickering from the corner, and everybody's like, what? And Sly's like, man, you've got to take it.

I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, no, you've got to take a real punch. Pretty much I had to really get hit. And legally, Ryan, he would definitely tell you this, as a director he can't legally say, you know, take the punch. So I had to willingly step up and be like alright I'll take the hit, but I definitely got peer pressure So my favorite movies dead dead man walking i just happen to have the star of the sequel

because the first time we the first time we did the punch his left glove was in the way so you couldn't see it connect so we had to do it all over again but this is this is this is the second time so you guys are practicing the right hook. And action. Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Who was applauding? Everybody in the audience. So you got punched in the face and people were like, yeah.

That was great. Because they replayed it in slow-mo on the Jumbotron. So everybody can see it. To see whether or not it was going to hit or not. And just the reaction was like, oh. And like the way, I'm not trying to, I don't want to spoil it for anybody but no it's the hit is pretty epic during one of the fights and there's a couple fights in the movie so we're not saying which yeah but it's pretty epic so did he take so the other boxer we won't say who it was yeah

he felt so bad specific sparty part of your face that he had to punch yeah he went high like hot so like your cheekbone? Yeah, he didn't go for jaw. Because jaw, you could break your jaw. Exactly. But you go here, you maybe get a little shiner and that's it. Exactly. But if he misses by like a quarter inch.

That's my ass. Yeah. I mean, I was smelling canvas though. I mean, it was, it was. Did you get a little punchy? I didn't get punchy. Would the NFL concussion spotters would have let you keep filming the scene i mean you could i definitely know the what they say when you see stars now i know that

expression right it's not it looks like little i mean the best way i can describe it is like if you put you know something under a microscope and you saw a little like microscopic little things just like floating around and like in the petri dish that's kind of what you see and just don't go towards the light i just said don't go towards the light so how how much scripted boxing you know i assume like you're sitting there and you're like oh you're gonna go one two i'm gonna go left hook it's almost like dancing it is it is learning a dance routine for sure is that something you need be good at um yeah i mean it's something that i can't remember sequences so i i would have been in a lot of trouble yeah you definitely would have been in trouble because i don't know if you want to freestyle with these guys because they're knockout artists yeah i'm

like canelo i can just do one two i can't do anything that's so crazy we were watching that same row we wanted so much more out of that i just i wanted him to throw it just for one sequence yeah give me a seven punch sequence once in 12 rounds. And that's what I love about Kodo, because he would throw five-punch combinations. You know what I'm saying? Even though all of them weren't clean, it looked like he was doing a lot of work. They just had no steam on them. Just no, no, mm.

Wait, I sidetracked you. So you have to remember the sequences. So the sequences, well, one of the things about our film was Ryan, where he wanted to shoot the fights different than any other fight film. We were super ambitious. I love one-ers. One-ers, I think they're just so, as a shot, it just connects the audience. You're just locked into the scene the entire time.

Explain what that is for people who don't know. A one-er is that there aren't any cuts. So from the first frame that you see carried all the way through whatever the scene is. There aren't any cuts. So in the first fight in the movie, you had one that's like two and a half minutes long. And I was wondering how he did that and how he edited it. But that was all one shot the whole time. No buried cuts. It's one take.

We got it on the 11th or 12th take. We did maybe 20 takes of it. And pretty strenuous. But, uh, from the time I get into the ring to the knockout, well, until the end of the fight is, uh, is, is, uh, is, is one take. And it takes months and months and months of rehearsal, you know, learning the choreography with the camera guy, our, you know, our camera operator, Ben, our Clayton Barber, our fight for a choreographer, and just learning where we're going to be we have three four people in a ring right now it is one big huge dance and sometimes

you do get hit and you get punched in the face and for the sake of not cutting you have to stay in the moment you have to budget so it's like we have sections of choreography but then we have pockets of playtime where we connect the, it's the connective tissue between the other choreography. So like, we'll start off one sequence and then we'll play around, go to the body a little bit, you know what I'm saying? Throw punches, like, you know, block, I'll let him go, you know, and it's all about eye contact as well. As long as you're locked in with the other person, you can kind of gauge when somebody's come, you know, when, when somebody's getting ready to start the sequences or not. And I'm dealing with pro fighters, man.

So literally they allowed me to throw real punches, try really hard to hit them, and it's second nature to them. So they're blocking, they're catching punches, they're rolling with it, they can take body blows. So they really allowed me to really sell everything, and they were totally okay with it. So you're punching their head, really, they have their gloves up most of the time but they can hide it and they can hide it or they're catching it right here right before it gets to their face they can handle any body punch i mean

no i mean i mean i put some weight on right but i mean like but yeah any little shoulder sides definitely they're they're totally okay with that and then it's all about punch placement in comparison to where the camera is so the camera's over my shoulder shooting you know over my right shoulder he's throwing all his punches to my left eye you know it's just to make sure all the punches are actually selling and then me as an actor i have to sell them as well so whiplash is a real thing you know like yeah oh man from the base of my you know skull base of my neck all the way down to the middle of my back were sore pretty much the entire time we were filming really yeah i mean because you're never 100 after that first you know fight sequence you know you're you're sore the entire time you're filming you don't really

have that many days off to really get a break to fully recover so i mean it was like being an athlete during a real season and they have to be terrified you're gonna get hurt and that'll knock the filming schedule back two, three weeks, right? Exactly. So they were constantly over me, like making sure, you know, ice baths, recovery, stretching, getting scrapings done. Basically with, you know, the old Chinese medicine of like spooning. Like basically like scrape, they put new blood inside the muscles and stuff like that. It's excruciatingly painful.

So A-Rod's trainer earned his money in this one. He came through here, he earned his money. That's hilarious. And A-Rod's trainer earned his money in this one. He came through here. He earned his money. That's hilarious. And Raphael Palmiera's biogenesis clinic. Hey, man, just get rid of that book. Shout out to them. Just get rid of that book.

Get rid of the book. We're good. No documents. So when did your body recover from the whole thing? When we finished the final fight sequence, because we front-loaded the film with boxing. So all the boxing scenes throughout the film were done up front so we can focus on the acting and the work and character work towards the end of the film and not have to worry about staying in you know tip tip

tip top camera ready shape which was like pretty hard so for me once i got finished with the championship fight i uh my body broke down. I was on bed rest for three days. I couldn't. Literally, mentally, when I accomplished my goal that night, 103 fever, could not move, body aches, pains. I just was completely shut down. And I got a really sweet text and a call from Sly, you know, basically saying like, because because he knew I was feeling bad I was feeling guilty for not being able to get up and go to work the next day like I really wanted to like you know I'm a workaholic and I want to get up and

and work and he was like you know the same thing happened to me during the in the Rocky films he said don't worry about it it's just one of the biggest compliments that your body can give you is that you set your mind to something you accomplished it and then once you finish that once you cross that finish line your body gives up it's over it's done like you like you've accomplished what you needed to accomplish so he said rest up you've earned it don't worry about it that's what insurance is for and we're good to go so i've heard lebron talk about that too actually as far as like does your body by this the season ends and like the next day his body just completely crashes. Crashes.

He's doing 105 games and then it's done. Because mentally he knows he has something to do. And once he finishes it, the body said, okay, mission complete. I can rest now. I remember the hardest I ever worked was in 2013. I was running Grantland. I was writing my column. I was doing my podcast.

But I was also on NBA Countdown doing all the shows. All-Star weekend. All-Star Weekend All-Star Weekend and you're coaching but I had to do all the playoffs and I was just like I just gotta get to the draft

like I know I know I'm starting to break down and I actually broke down after game five and we had two games left but it was the same thing it was just like my body had reached a point

where it just couldn't go anymore not to compare myself to a boxer who was taking punches all the time. No, no, no, no. But I know what you mean where it's like there's a finish line in your head.

I just need to get there. You just want to get there and you know you're pushing it too far. Yep. And yeah. And you know you're traveling, not sleeping as much, not resting,

not taking care of yourself. Hey, that's everything. Travel. Travel, airports. Being on the road. Seriously. Hotel rooms, all that stuff. Fast food.

It's really hard to eat clean when you're on the road. Did you feel an obligation? You all right? No alright no I didn't you didn't want to burp into the mic did you did you feel an obligation

as an actor to do a boxing film it seems like everybody has to do one no all the real actors have to do one no I mean

nah come on deep down I mean now that I think about it in hindsight I guess you know I guess it is kind of a

you know it's a rite of passage yeah jinx yeah i don't know i'm a little kid sometimes the only one who never did is leo leo didn't leo didn't or never did boxing or put on a suit what do you mean put on a suit i mean i didn't put on spandex as far as this uh superhero that was another rite of passage for you which was which is one that you know i would gladly They didn't put on spandex. As far as a superhero. They'll never put on a suit either. That was another rite of passage for you. Which is one that I would gladly do again. As me being a comic book fan, for that was just like a dream come true, for sure.

Being able to play that character. How long was that filming? We shot the film for, I mean, it seems four months, three months months three to four months well as you know i always worry about you why and i well i like you i want you to do well appreciate it but i was worried when that there's bad buzz with that movie and i was like i hope this doesn't that you know sometimes the movie there's a little stink gets on different people i was like man he should get out of this but it seems like you got out out of it. No, I got out of that pretty clean.

It's one of those things where it was a lesson for me that really made me realize that things aren't in your control. Right. I'm still learning that lesson. No, seriously, right? I mean, you know. I know better than anyone. You can get up every day and be like, I'm going to give 110% to this one thing or to anything. And then it's still not turned out how people want it or how you expected it to.

And it doesn't mean that you're a failure or it doesn't mean that you didn't do a great job. It just means as a whole, as a project, there's so many other pieces that are moving that have nothing to do with you that determine the outcome of a film. So that's one of those things that I have to kind of come to terms with. Your actors are like baseball players. You're not going to of a film. So that's one of those things that I have to kind of like come to terms with. Your actors are like baseball players. You're not going to bat a thousand. Yeah, I know. Once you know that coming, you're just not. It's not happening.

It's something that we were saying for a long time. Me and my team were like, you know, right now, I'm kind of batting a thousand right now. I'm like, kind of good. Yeah. All my choices have been solid. I've been stuck to the plan. You know, we had a game plan.

I stuck to it. We made all the right decisions. But, you know to the plan you know we had a game plan i stuck to it we made all the right decisions but you know sometimes you know nobody bets but here's the thing about actors you have one one good one and then that's it people only remember the last movie it's not like they're sitting there going hey i'm gonna go through mbj's imdb.com today and start like and grade the ups and downs like they just remember what the last movie was so thank god i mean people finally stopped talking about the wire with you i'm guessing no no you'd be surprised i talk more about the wire than i do still still today wallace is a character man it's a show it's such a show that you know people like they love i mean friday and friday night light so it's probably the two shows and Parenthood's a close third

I mean it's like right there like how many people like really are connected with that character and with the show great writing with 40 year old 41 year old white parents

I think all of them have watched that show 40 year old white parents and then you got like the the little kids the 30 year olds and you know the kids are in college

and high school they watch those shows too man it's like with Netflix and Hulu and like you know know, everything's streaming and, you know, like all these shows are accessible and they can watch them. You know, they can binge watch. They don't have to worry about commercials or, you know, waiting around next week. So I think that's, you know, a cool element to the streaming element where they go catch up on all these shows and, you know, one stop. That was the biggest miss with Friday Night Lights. It was five years too early, five years too late.

Yeah, seriously. And then we didn't have a home the entire time. Did it bounce around from NBC for a second and then it get picked up on DirecTV and then kind of like fans not really knowing where to catch it. It was a little, you know. But think about if that show comes out like nine months ago on Netflix and it's released all at once. It's one of the best

binge watch shows of all time for sure and if it comes out five six years before it's also a bigger show because there's less TV on this is very true

that's a great point it came in this weird vortex of we weren't quite where we are now but we had left where we used to be yeah so that's a great point

that's a great point because you know why I thought that actually so I missed Friday Night Live. I think I told you this. I didn't watch it right away because I thought it was going to get canceled. I was just like, there's no way. NBC will screw this up.

The show will be on for six episodes. So I'm not getting sucked in. I'm not getting attached. Yeah, I'm not going to get emotionally attached right now. Just not. Not getting attached. I'm not doing it. You're not doing it to me.

You owe yourself that. Yeah. Yeah. I had my guard up. You have to. So eventually it was like, oh my God, I missed it. And now I'm 12 episodes late or eight or whatever it was. There was no way to catch up because we weren't in the Hulu area yet.

So I went on eBay and I bought the Japanese DVDs after the season ended. The Japanese, what do you mean? Like they were selling them in Japan. Okay. I bought DVDs and all the, I watched season one with Japanese subtitles I love it It's not like me when I'm watching my anime I'm watching my anime They're in Japan but they have the subtitles at the bottom

So I got caught up by the end But the reason I thought of the binge watchers thing Was because I watched like four in a row Oh yeah No commercials She's hooking up with Riggins I gotta get in one more Everybody wants to know what's going on with Riggins I gotta get in one more everybody wants to know

what's going on with Riggins yeah yeah and then Riggins on True Detective but anyway it was the perfect binge watch show yeah it is

and I kinda don't want it to come back I've thought about it more and more I do think there could be another Wire season you think the Wire

could come back I didn't come back as a movie but it's so hard okay well then what season would you wrap around I mean cause a lot of another Wire season. You think the Wire could come back in that Friday Night Lights? I think it could come back as a movie. But it's so hard. Okay, well then what season would you wrap around? I mean, because a lot of the familiar ones

You're talking about the Wire? Yeah. I'm saying you come back to Baltimore. When was the last one? Like, oh, 2007? Six, seven?

Seven. Seven or eight, somewhere in there. Come back to Baltimore 10 years later and you have a couple of the same people, but it's...

Okay, brand new. I think that's the only way it could work. Yeah, you can... Friday Night Lights, you're basically, it's just a Kyle Chandler movie at that point. Because realistically, the students are gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Students are gone. I mean, if they could find a clever way to do it, if like, you know, Peter Berg and Kadams,

you know, decide to like, you know, make it happen A film, maybe, but I just like the way we ended the show. Five seasons strong. Everybody's kind of happy. It's very rare that you can end the show off where everybody feels satisfied. That was a legit, great ending. I wouldn't leave it alone.

What's the ratio right now of people with you with Friday Night Lights vs. The Wire? Man. I'm going to go what what what's the ratio right now people with you friday night lights versus the wire man i'm gonna go slightly more wire but it's like people who if you if you're saying we're if you're talking about the wire if you're talking about friday night lights you usually mention the wire as well so oh so they combo it yeah so you think it's the same people like both of them yeah it's the same type of same type feel. But then Friday Night Lights has a whole new audience, I think, that might not have watched The Wire. But I feel like the people that, the fans that follow me or are fans of The Wire that are also fans of, it's more likely that they're fans of Friday Night Lights as well. Because the feeling, the heart was there.

You know, it was real. It was gritty. Even though Friday Night Lights was a lot softer obviously than than the wire but i feel like you know it's the same type of uh taste i think between the two projects so usually fans that are fans of the wire are usually fans of friday night lights as well what's the percentage of people saying when's when's that coming back is it ever coming back like nobody says that people are done yeah people move on it's like a 20 like a 20 i'll say 20 people might say, is it coming back? Just out of pure, just to ask.

I don't think they really believe it or really want it to come back, but they just want to know. Hold on a second. We got to take care of a little business here. With so many different bank accounts, credit cards, and passwords to remember, it's harder than ever to keep track of your money these days, even yours, Michael. That's what makes Personal Capital's free financial tools so important. They show you all of your accounts in one place, making it easy to manage finances, track investments, and grow your net worth. And it's all in real time. You also get other powerful free tools, including an investment checkup tool that analyzes your portfolio and suggest improvements, a fee analyzer to identify hidden fees that could delay your Thank you. Capital quote, the best free finance tracking app available. Just go to personalcapital.com slash BS to link your accounts. And in seconds, you'll have your own personal financial dashboard.

And guess what? You'll also get free months of free advisory services if you enroll right now. That's personalcapital.com slash BS. One thing that I thought I was reading up on some of the interviews you gave because i wanted to make sure i didn't go over stuff you'd already talked about because you know how i roll i like to have original interviews exactly but you said what there was in the gq thing there was one part about and you didn't totally go there but i had been interested in what you thought about this about younger black actors versus the denzel will smith type of generation. Who's in your generation?

Right now? Like, who are you? There's some movie. Let's say there's the greatest movie ever, and they're like... Come on, black actors, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I want to do the black actors first, but then overall age group. Okay.

But let's say there's some movie, and it's the best script anyone's ever seen. Okay. And the lead actor is a black male male and he's somewhere between 28 and 34 who are you worried about in the casting session who's on your corner i know i know how competitive you are i know there's somebody on your corner oh man don't look at kenny no i'm not i'm not looking no i'm just looking around because it's like i mean who am i worried about that's because i was you're talking about this in sports terms. Yeah.

Which is like dangerous. Let's call out somebody. It's not sports. Let's call out somebody. Let's get some shit going right here. No, I mean, honestly, it's so crazy. If that breakdown came out, you know? Yeah.

You would see every actor from 18, every black actor from 18 years old to 40 trying to squeeze into that small category so why is the talent pool because why is it shallow because i don't feel as though there's enough stories um being told they're being written for people of color to tell those stories to tell our stories they're not written for people of color. To tell those stories, to tell our stories, there's not enough material out there. So until you get writers and producers that are producing more of these stories, that are producing more of these roles,

you're going to get everybody from a lot of these different age range and categories coming in, cramming in for this one role. That's just what it is is because there's a lack of there's a lack of material like deep down Denzel almost played the lead in Creed

I mean deep down oh crap I'm the same age as Carl Weathers we can't do this that's pretty it's kind of like that right now

but I feel like with Creed and you know hopefully success and other projects and the writing and the creating

and developing that there will be you know a lot more roles out there for you know other talented actors to come out and play here's why i brought this up what's up shonda rhimes is basically carrying abc yeah she owns thursdays empire was the hottest show of last year yeah the audience is there not just for tv but for movies and i wonder why hollywood hasn't moved in that direction.

Like even the story you told about Creed, you got until you got Fruitvale station. Yeah. You guys didn't have the, the, the way to wait to even get that movie made. But it's like, of course that movie should have been made a career,

a sequel with built around Creed's son. Yeah. Yeah. With Sly in it. Like who's not seeing, I guess Sly would have had to agree to be in it. I think that was the hardest thing, was getting him, because the studio loved it. You know, the studio loved the idea of it.

You know, they were really excited about it. So for our particular case, that wasn't the holdup. That was more of a personal Sly legacy, what Rocky was, getting him to come back. Because that's the only way the film was going to work, if we had Rocky. So without him, we had nothing. But other than that, I felt like the studios were really on board with the idea from Ryan. Because Ryan's a really talented, very, very special guy, man. And it's really hard to meet him and hear a pitch from something and not be into it.

Yeah, he's definitely charismatic. Yeah, he's the guy, man. He's the real deal. You know what I was thinking about? Eddie Murphy was my guy growing up okay and how different is for a lead black actor in your era versus in the 80s because like eddie murphy they wouldn't let him even kiss woman in the 80s crazy he kissed the girl in 48 hours at the end goes to the next couple movies beverly hills cop his friends on his bed like she's just basically lying there ready for Axl Foley to make a move.

Never makes a move. Golden Child, they cut out the sex scene. They did? Oh, yeah. I didn't know. I love Golden Child. Oh, yeah. That scene got cut out.

What year was that? Like 86, 87. Okay. But now at least we've entered an era where, I mean, I would hope the executives and the people don't think about that stuff. I know the viewers don't think about it but isn't that crazy that was only 30 years ago it's like yesterday man yeah it's like 30 years is nothing i feel like eddie murphy released beverly hills cop like three years ago i mean i love i remember watching it so i mean big fan but it is it does feel like things have shifted and yet the only thing that hasn't shifted yet is the number of movies on that Fruvale Creed kind of level for the opportunities.

So I hope that now changes. I think I said within success, the more successful projects that you see out there that are... It's crazy. Sometimes it comes down to the nuts and bolts of what do they feel like is financially successful? Superheroes. Exactly. down to the nuts and bolts of what's what do they feel like is financially successful you know how can superheroes exactly i mean how can sequels superheroes star wars yeah so sometimes if they don't feel like there's a market for a certain you know type of film that it's really hard to get backing and you know and distribution and you know who's gonna put the money up for the pna and advertising and what type of material is it like what what, what, what market are you gearing towards? It's like all these other things do come into play,

but I feel like if it starts at, you know, you know, the writers, you know, the producers, you know, that are writing more sophisticated material,

you know, there's not, not, you know, material that, you know, that everybody wants to see that doesn't alienate any type of audience. It's not going towards a specific demographic.

You know, if you do films that are, you know, generalized, you know, that are still with people of color, but that everybody would love to go see, then I feel like you'll start to see a gentle breakdown of that clear as day. Yeah. A sports movie is a good way to do it. But that's going to another clear stereotype.

Why does it have to be an athlete? No, but'm saying like a sports movie hits all types of people it's not the superhero slash but then you got a sequel slash whatever but then you got a black guy that's historically great at being athletic and in sports that are in what sport i mean is it a hockey story but i'm saying like jake gyllenhaal released a boxing movie too okay no no that's awesome yeah yeah but we're specifically talking about black no I was talking about you were talking about opportunities about movies

about movies and how hard it is to be inventive with a movie you know what I mean no 100% but then also talking about how hard is it to be inventive

to have a black male lead true in those type of in type of films that are not towards a specific group but that are towards everybody

Will Smith's I mean I feel like half of Will Smithith's movies like enemy in the state it's amazing yeah i really like that movie i love it's kind of held up as a cable movie no no seriously whenever it's on i don't john voight i don't like whenever it's on tv you don't turn from it you know it's just on even if it's on background noise you're not really paying attention to it i just i would love having that movie on all the time it's the reality is we just need more rand cooglers i think that is a that is a harsh reality because what he did especially in creed there's a lot of subtle stuff where it's almost like for a good sports movie the director has to be i hate this word but almost overqualified well because he has touches in that

movie it's like yeah that's not like your typical this isn't major league you know like this is like a real movie no exactly and it helps that he's super competitive and he loves sports you know and i think that that's another thing it's super it's very authentic he took like boxing classes for a few months before just to like really understand the boxing was excellent thank you oh well that can go that can go really badly we had some really great trainers and fight choreographers. Rob Sally was my boxing trainer. And Clayton Barber, he did a lot of Wesley's, a lot of the blades. He worked with Wesley Snipes a lot.

And he's really, really, really talented. And we wanted every punch that we threw in every fight to represent a line. So it was like a scene. All the fight scenes were like regular. We approached them like acting scenes. So what is my intent with this jab? What is my intent with this left hook, with this slip, with me getting hit? How am I reacting?

How am I responding to it? So that's kind of how we approached to it, and I think we got this very layered fight where you can see a clear arc, and I think that's pretty cool how did you how did you kind of master the attitude of being a boxer i think understanding who adonis was you know and because i think he carries his personality from outside the ring into the ring sometimes and just having a lot of i think he fought for with a lot of rage and frustration you know in the beginning and then without a trainer.

And the more he found out about himself and about his father and just kind of learned from Rocky. Having that father figure, that mentorship, I feel like he started to refine, kind of figure out what he was fighting for. And I think that's super important. But once you find out the character part, you can figure out who he is physically as a boxer. We looked at a lot of Timothy Bradley. Timothy Bradley was a fighter that we really wanted to— I was going to say, it looked like you had scouted a couple different boxers that you were copying. Because the in-the-ring personality is a big part of a boxing movie.

Big deal. So Timothy Bradley and Parnell Whitaker, Sweet Pea, were the two— That's a good one. —that I really focused in on and tried to grab little things from. Because Carl Weathers in Rocky 1 and 2, he's just doing an Ali impersonation. For sure. That was Ali. Yeah, no, definitely.

I think that was, I mean, they can, you know, Carl would definitely admit to it. That was definitely somebody. He said it, yeah. For sure. And I didn't want to be like Apollo because I never met my dad. And I feel like he was kind of running from him more than anything. So he probably wouldn't want to be anything like his father. So if anything, he would probably pick a style or try to fight like somebody that wasn't like him.

So we really wanted to just do something different. So you're not going to give me one Sly Stallone story? I mean, really? You're not going to give me one? You're not going to give me a great one? I mean, I showed you the video. I know you can't top Stickman. Stickman is just a rough one.

We're just married to being a kid with Stickman. That's a rough one to top. Let me see if I got another. Well, in the meantime, I have a very important subject for you. What's up? So my son's name is Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons. Okay.

Ben Simmons, heading into this college basketball season that just started is the number one draft pick he's at LSU LSU yeah oh yeah yeah he's 6 foot 10 yep

he's 6 foot 10 he's 6 foot 10 he sees the floor like bird and magic wow and I love that he went to LSU yeah they have some weird

Australian pipeline thing no but I just love I worry that there's gonna be an outside the lines investigation like four years about it I'm sure it probably will but I just love the fact that- I worry that there's going to be an outside the lines investigation in like four years about it. I'm sure it probably will, but I just love how- Anyway, not to sidetrack you. Well, there's something special about this. I haven't been this excited about college prayer in nine years since Doreen.

Really? Yeah. Like legit. You'll watch. You'll understand. I saw him play one game. So you'll watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I saw him play one game and it was pretty phenomenal, man. He's not going to put up 30 points, but I feel like he's a facilitator. He's yeah. He's a get makes everyone better guy, which doesn't, those guys don't exist really. Love it. So he's about to become really famous. Okay. He's going to be Ben Simmons.

So how's that going to change? He's going to be basically Kevin Durant. And my son has the same name as him. Yeah. You've been in this exact situation. Exact situation. Michael Jordan. Yes. Then the other Michael Jordan. Yes.

Then the other Michael Jordan. You added the B. Yeah. But it was something you heard earlier in your career. So what do I do with my son? I mean, Ben Simmons isn't going to be Michael Jordan. I was going to say, is he going to play basketball? No.

Hockey. He's a hockey player. He's a hockey player. Well, that's another thing. He has his own lane. I guess the hardest part about me was that I was playing basketball. Right. You know, I was playing basketball at a hockey player. He's a hockey player. Well, that's another thing. He has his own lane. I guess the hardest part about me was that I was playing basketball. Right. You know, I was playing basketball at a young age.

Maybe if I was like, if I took up, you know, painting or something like that. It wouldn't matter. I was like, yeah, okay, great. Yeah, I'm the Picasso of, you know, I'm the MJ of, you know, paint, whatever. You know, I'll kind of like have my own thing. But the fact that I was, you know, playing basketball and I did get into the arts and acting and stuff like that so what it came with that celebrity tag once you're in the industry in any type of way whether it's modeling or acting or commercials everybody thinks you know they all kind of bunch it up as just celebrity or whatever so i kind of got that you know i was kind of in that lane so i couldn't be the the almost

michael jordan that was almost famous and almost did something good it kind of gave me that chip to like excel and be great at whatever it was good for you it was oh for sure did you take shit when you were like six seven eight nine ten oh michael jordan you're not michael jordan the real yeah you can't boil like him all that all everything any anything you can think of i was definitely somebody said it to me as a kid and then even as you know as a teenager or a teenager or mid-20s, ordering pizza. Like, who's it for? What's the name? Michael Jordan.

Yeah. They'll say, what? Let me guess, Apartment 23? And they'll hang up on me. Like, that happened to me numerous times. So it's like, and the funny part is people would tell jokes about my name, and they'll act like it's the first time I ever heard it. Right. Or they'll think that this is the first time I ever heard it. Or they'll think that this is the first time. Where's Scotty?

Like a lot of those. But the weird thing about your name and maybe it's just because I've been following you now for a few years and you've been on the pod and all that stuff but I feel like Michael B. Jordan is it's own name. Thank you. I don't even think of the Michael Jordan thing anymore.

I don't think anyone does.'s the and that i think you reach the point where have i finally got there he hasn't played for 12 years you know he's like there's just this failed charlotte owner now that you know who used to be the best basketball player of all time but now he's not or the retros that get released every you know two three weeks and you know i'm not saying he's not a trillionaire no no no no i know but he's very very much so alive and present. No, I know he is. But I feel like the Michael B. Jordan is its own thing that has no relation to Michael I'm not fighting this. I'm with you.

I am happy because that has definitely been a goal of mine for a really long time. So the fact that you say that, you know, that feels good. But even when Fruitvale came out, I still feel like it was lingering a tiny bit. Yes, I agree. Not with me. No, but just everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

The MBJ now is its own like acronym i know i said i get people to really understand mbj and then don't say mjb people say mjb i mean because it's like this so it's the same like letter so the mjb like no that's mary j blige see i mean i mean mbj i mean yes great we're gonna work on it all right this is this is a couple years i think we should be clear across the board. See, my issue is my son's middle initial is O. You know why I did that. He's the boss. B-O-S.

Boston. That's the Boston acronym. Boston acronym. If you watch any Boston game. Okay, not for sure. Or you can just, I mean, or boss. Yeah, or the boss. Or the boss.

That's a cool nickname. The boss is a cool nickname. So maybe he'll just be Boss Simmons. Boss Simmons is pretty cool. Just get rid of Ben. That's a cool nickname. The boss is a cool nickname. So maybe he'll just be Boss Simmons. Boss Simmons is pretty cool. Just get rid of Ben. That's pretty cool. Boss. He really is the boss.

Boss is pretty cool, man. Yeah. Especially on the ice. But what are the ads that we name, that me, the person who loves basketball the most, and name the book, The Book of Basketball, and I named my son Ben Simmons, and then there's another Ben Simmons, who's now going to be the best basketball player coming out of college in nine years. Were you thinking about the initials though? Oh, 100%.

Okay, okay. Do you know how hard it is to find an O? It was like Owen, Oscar, Oliver. What is it? So you'll like this. Ollie? Oakley. Oakley is pretty cool.

That's that. Ben Oakley Simmons. So I saw Oakley and I always thought Charles Oakley was like the toughest basketball player. Yeah. So I was like, if Oakley's the middle name. And he's a Nick. This guy's going to be kind of a bad.

Well, I thought of him as a bull when I did it. But I was like, if his middle initial is one of the biggest badasses in NBA history. Yeah. It's a good start for him. It's a great. And my kid is one of those kids who doesn't cry. Okay. He's built like.

Yeah, yeah. So it was good. So BOS. So he'll probably be pretty tall too. Yeah. He's hockey though. The hockey guys, it doesn't matter. But no, I've seen the hockey players look like football players.

I mean, they're like 6'4". Well, yeah. But I'm saying he could be 5'11 and still play. Okay. Yeah. The hockey guys have gotten gigantic. And because you're on skate you're on you know skates too that gives you a couple inches so i guess like even the 511

guys like 6263 yeah yeah okay so i have a future in hockey thanks for indulging my family sidetrack no problem so creed is going to be a big ass movie i hope so when does it come out thanksgiving day uh november 25th yeah yeah so we're running this on wednesday the day before which is good awesome and oh on wednesday oh yeah wednesday the 25th i'm sorry thanks. So we're running this on Wednesday, the day before, which is good. Awesome. Oh, on Wednesday. Oh, yeah, Wednesday the 25th. I'm sorry, Thanksgiving Day is on Thursday. Yeah, yeah. Wednesday the 25th.

Yeah. Did you, how many of the posters did you steal? 35. Which one are you framing? I'm framing the one with me and Sly. You know, the one with his hand on my shoulders. I'm definitely framing that one. Okay, I'm lying. I'm framing I'm framing all what happens if this movie

becomes a huge movie like don't turn into an asshole look I'm not gonna let you about so you always have to be in the pod like every 18 months just like make sure I really I realized you're gonna make it long term when we did the celebrity game together and Kevin Hart shot like every time he had the ball and you were so cool about it I was just like you know man all right if we want to win I'm over here all right put me in coach whenever you want whenever you want to start running some plays coach I'm over here I'm ready for you uh I'm still haunted we're gonna look are you coaching this year no I'm done you're done I'm out all right yeah that was my one time I lost to Jalen. You know why I lost? Because I traded him Skyler Diggins for Elena Deledon.

I thought we needed more shooting. You know what? I didn't hit one jump shot that game, and I missed my free throw. So I'm going to take my blame for that one. We missed like five free throws down the stretch. We did. Did I ever tell you that I bet on us? No, I didn't.

I didn't. Pete Rose. Really? Yeah, we were didn't. I didn't. Pete Rose. Really? Yeah, we were laying a point, and Pete Rose said I bet on my own team, so I can't go to the Hall of Fame. Okay, fair enough, man. Now I feel like I let you down, man.

I had Jimmy Kimmel and his cousin Sal, the three of us. I was like, I stacked our team. That's so funny. I got Michael B. Jordan. He played in high school. We're going to kill it. I got the two best WNBA players.

I started hot. Right. It was a long game. It wasn't your school. We're going to kill it. I got the two best WNBA players. I started hot. Right. It was a long game. It wasn't your fault. You know what happened. What? Turned into a, you know. Well, Mr. Hart didn't help us. No, that's right, Kevin. I'm talking to you. Yeah, yeah. Maybe distribute the ball a little more next time. Just a little bit, man.

You're not a shoot first point guard like Steph Curry. Or Russ. But what killed us was that our WNBA players got scared they were going to get hurt because we had a couple people in that game that were flying around

like it was like this was the highlight of their basketball career to be in this game and they were afraid they were going to get undercut or hurt or something and Ernie Duncan

I'm calling out Ernie Duncan I'm calling out Ernie I'm calling out Ernie next year man that was my biggest mistake is not getting Arnie. You slept on Arnie. Arnie Duncan. All right, so what are you doing next?

I'm, uh. What are the next movie projects? I don't know. I'm, um. You don't know? I like this. So you're betting on Creed. Yeah, well, I'm betting on Creed right now, and I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I don't

want to just work just to work, you know? I'm doing, uh, well, I'm doing Just Mercy with right now, and I'm trying to, I don't want to just work just to work. You know, I'm doing, well, I'm doing Just Mercy with Destin Cretton. He did Short Term 12, and I'm playing the real-life person, you know, Brian Stevenson, who's a defense attorney. Yeah. Out of Alabama. And the book is an amazing book. Can I make some suggestions? For?

Remember the last time you were on, I told you you needed to make a sports movie? You don't remember that, but I did. No, no, no. I said you had to do a sports movie. Yeah, because you were looking at it. You said an alien movie. You were talking about you did the super. I did the Will Smith.

I did the Will Smith. You went up. So I did. Superhero. Maybe not the best advice on that, but you got paid, right? I got paid. You got a paycheck. I did.

That's good. Here's what I want. I think you I think think about being a lawyer think about think go McConaughey time to kill

level type of thing that's kind of the tone of you're the big monologue at the end where you well up the Oscar scene at the end

is that it yeah okay yeah that's the only no I think that's one thing you should do. Okay. Here's what you shouldn't do.

Don't play Willie Mays, Hayes's son. Okay. In major league, the comeback. Okay. Yeah. Don't,

don't make it a, don't keep doing the sports movie sons of guys from 30 years ago. This is it. It's the one off. This is it. It's not the one off, but you know, this is the,

you know, one time. No, this should be it. Unless there's a few. Unless there's a Creed 2. Oh. Or, you know. Creed 2, but this is the one time. No, this should be it. Unless there's a few... Unless there's a Creed II. Oh. Or, you know.

Creed II. Now you're talking my language. You know, just saying. I don't know if your body can go through it. I'm trying to keep this new body as long as I can. You just told me you got a 103 degree fever from the last one. Yeah, but this guy right here. This guy.

That you're looking at. You stayed in shape. I haven't taken it for a spin yet, so I want to just hold on to it. I want to hold on to it for as long as i can you have some sort of basketball project in your life that's going to happen at some point but i don't know what it is at some point you vaguely know what it is but yeah yeah yeah it's something that you know me and a buddy of mine i want to be involved we will make that yeah we're gonna something's gonna happen that becomes real yeah and then you got dibs so rom-com you half did it you didn't totally do it you did that

you did it with two buddies yeah i didn't you didn't do the one where it's like not yet you're i got some time you know i want my career to be a reflection of things that i like and i like a lot of different things you know so i kind of want i want to i want to take my time but there's definitely going to be you know a time a time where people see the goofy, carefree, not giving a shit side of me. And it's going to come out. Because people that know me know I have that, but it's eventually going to come out. You haven't played a cop yet?

I've not played a cop. Have that going for you. I haven't played a soldier. You have a lot of chess pieces left. Oh, war movie. Have you been in a war movie? Red Tails, but I was Red Tails counts.

But you weren't like one of the leads in Red Tails, right? Were you? No, not at the end of the movie. No. Okay. No, no. So cop? Cop, soldier. Maybe some When's the last time there's been like a really good

buddy cop movie? I mean Bad Boys is the last time there's been like a really good buddy cop movie i mean bad boys is the last time they really did it i love bad boys so bad boys was so good it was a perfect tone i have another suggestion for you yeah well you know why bad boys were at miami you put anything in miami it's it's like ballers is in miami like doesn't even matter what the plot is they just walk around miami yeah yeah water boats women models models so you got that you got that thing got that see what else i think you need to i would study the hanks imdb hanks yeah hanks had one like he hanks had no crew i wouldn't do cruise i would study hanks because he said what about le Leo? Leo's good.

I feel like Leo got a little too weird. Too much? Yeah, I think he tilted too far toward the, I'm an actor, I'm going to only work with directors I respect. It's like, you know what, just make a rom-com every once in a while, Leo. He went out of every nine. One of every nine. Just be somebody's boss and she fell in love with you and she shouldn't have

and you might not end up together and in the end you're running toward her in slow motion that works too yeah just do like every nine i'm gonna do a hybrid i'm gonna do i'm gonna do my own version i'm gonna do the michael b version of michael b jordan version of all that do seven for you and one for them that works because usually it's one for one soldier i like the soldier idea so i mean it's gotta be just whatever it is it's gotta have it has Soldier, I like the soldier idea. So, I mean, it's got to be just whatever it is. It has to have heart to it and just, or a villain. I haven't played a villain. You haven't played a villain.

Be careful with that, though. Why? Has Leo ever played like a real villain? Blood Diamond was like as close as he came. Will Smith's never played a villain. Denzel, trained. Yeah, that worked for him, but he did that later in his career. Yeah, that was later. That was like 15

years in. And by the way, I know he was supposed to be a villain in that movie. But you still kind of rooted for him a little bit. I rooted for him the whole time. Yeah, you rooted for him. Yeah, you did. Man, that's just Denzel. Denzel's awesome. And like Fuqua is such an amazing... That's another one for you. You gotta do one with Denzel. Yeah, man. That'd be great.

Because how many more does he have left? Oh, he's... at morgan freeman he's going strong yeah but then he moves into a different that's a different phase of his career yeah all you saw what's more as far as denzel being like you know yeah like him having the bandwidth to just be like the lead i don't think he's going he's not going anywhere man denzel's here to stay he's the best yes i think that's my choice for getting jack's laker seat jack goes yeah because that's going to be an important thing i think okay you know somebody it's got to be a real smooth real impact in that seat but like how do you like how would you go about getting those seats well you have you have a vote that's why i'm going to become the sports

are okay that's one of the things we're going to vote on got it okay got it yeah all right we're gonna have america vote on who should get that Okay, got it. Yeah. All right. We're going to have America vote on who should get that seat. It's a very important seat. It is a very crucial seat. It's the number one celebrity capital and you have to have somebody in that specific spot

next to the visitor's bench who is recognizable. Leo doesn't play too for it. So how would I go about like getting rid of Spikes? Oh, Spikes' Knicks thing? Knicks thing. How do I go about that?

Spike might do that himself. How do I go about that spike might do that himself how do i go about that he's skype never scaled it back no he was just always all in on this thing yeah so i i didn't realize you were a knicks fan but you're from newark so how'd that happen i mean who else i mean what the net you just Nets were just out? I mean, okay. Put it like this. I'm a Giants fan. Giants and the Jets, they both play in Jersey. True. So, I mean, I'm a Giants fan.

And then you got the Nets. I've always been a Knicks-Mets, old school Mets. Not new bandwagon Mets. Old school Mets. And then Knicks fan. What's going on with women? I'm single. I'm enjoying my time right now. Is this like I'med single right now like my movie's gonna be big this this is this is i'm creed single but

just life man life is happening so fast like it's such a transition as far as your privacy your personal life just handling people knowing your name you know walking up to you talking to you like they know you you know just the you know the social network aspect of it name, you know, walking up to you, talking to you like they know you, you know, just the, you know, the social network aspect of it all. The, you know, the going out, the, you know, being caught at a restaurant with a friend that is legitimately a friend. But just because you're out, then all of a sudden it's something that happened. No, no, no. I mean, I try to avoid those situations as much as possible, but just it just changed the way way you think the way you navigate life on a day-to-day and it's a transition for me and it's like so i'd rather not bring anybody else into that crazy transition if i'm having a hard enough time trying to wrap my brain around and figure it out how am i going to bring another woman into a situation and then try

to make that work which is hard enough as it is so in the future you know I'm not saying no to it or running away from it but right now I'm just enjoying you know what Magic Johnson's rule was on this whole thing what was Magic Johnson's same rule as Jalen Rose's rule

what's Jalen I spent a lot of time in a small room with those guys watching 10 TVs at once don't date a celebrity two celebrities can't make it together

can't make it together no yeah cause celebrity naturally they're in the middle of the tornado the world revolves around them it's crazy

you put a second tornado two tornadoes and now you have a double tornado and you have somebody who's like well the world revolves around me it's like no that's why whenever actors date once one of them starts doing better than the other

it's over that's funny you can't handle it. That's funny. Let's say you're dating, I don't know, let's pick who's a successful, awesome actress. Hey, man, I'm going to let you pick mine. Let's say you're dating Jennifer Lawrence right now. You and Jennifer Lawrence.

Your movie comes out. It's huge. Now it's like, oh, yeah, the career-wise, yeah, they're cool. It makes sense. He's rooting for her. Yeah. And then she has three movies in a row that bomb. And meanwhile, you do the rom-com.

You get shot in a war movie. You're a lawyer. You get nominated for the lawyer movie. And she's all of a sudden down here getting offers to do TV shows. She's just mad at you all the time. Once that seesaw shifts, it's over. So stay away from celebrities. But I'm a type of

guy that would be like all right you know what we're gonna make this work no i'm gonna go write a movie for you let's go get somebody let's go let's go let's go let's go figure it out giving boyfriend i mean let's go let's go figure it out let's go let's go get you that what do you what do you need next okay let's figure out what's the her next move is gonna be i mean that's the kind of guy i am my my two pieces of advice here. No Kardashian family. Just no. Got it. Just stay out. Check.

Look at what's happening in the Rockets right now. That's one. James! No Taylor Swift. Okay. Because once it goes bad, you're in like five of her songs.

And you know that's gonna happen. She has a track record with it. She has a track record with like 10 guys. I'll be immortalized in the song. You don't want to be that guy okay no okay so the song would just be called mbj but she won't ever say your name okay but it would be mbj and she'll just be annihilating you in this song people like i think this is about michael b jordan yeah so stay away from that just be careful make your make your

choices wisely this is gonna be a big movie yes sir, sir. All right. Michael B. Jordan. Man. This is good. This is almost as good as being on Ellen. Almost. But I'm going to go tell her that I had a great time here. So she has to top this one. People think that we look alike, me and Ellen.

And we actually do. We both have crazy weird blue eyes and big bug eyes and short hair. We actually do kind of look alike. You guys can be a doppelganger. Yeah. Maybe that'll be my rom-com. Me and Alan. All right.

Good luck with Creed. Creed comes out on November 25th? Wednesday. Wednesday. Yeah. Wednesday, November 25th. It's out in theaters.

Listen, you guys know how much I love the Rocky series. I condone Creed. It has my stamp of approval. You heard it. Nice work. Bill Simmons approved. I condone Creed. It has my stamp of approval. You heard it. Nice work. Bill Simmons approved.

All right. Take care. My man. Thanks to Personal Capital, a great way to track your money with the best financial tools imaginable. Monitor all your accounts in one place, manage finances, track investments, plan your retirement, and grow your net worth in real time. Just go to personalcapital.com slash BS to link your accounts.

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We about this bitch. Anytime y'all want to see me again, rewind this track right here, close your eyes, and picture me rolling. I'm gonna take some of the rope.