The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 33: JackO, Michael Rapaport & Jay Caspian Kang

Episode Date: December 2, 2015

HBO's Bill Simmons brings in his buddy JackO to discuss Boston's David Price signing, then Trump and the Republicans (23:00). Then, Michael Rapaport talks Kobe's bizarre farewell tour (38:00) and flawed NBA rebuilding plans (44:00). And finally, original Grantlander Jay Caspian Kang talks Kobe's demise & NBA twitter (52:00) and Grantland/Linsanity (1:12:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by SeatGeek, our presenting sponsor, as well as a fantastic app that allows you to buy and sell tickets for sporting events and concerts. Check out their newest feature, SeatGeek Marketplace, a simple and easy way to sell tickets without getting hijacked by a ridiculous after the sale cost that other sites charge. Go to SeatGeek.com slash BS to learn how to buy and sell tickets on SeatGeek. Today's episode is also brought to you by SimpliSafe, the best way to protect your home without writing huge checks or signing long-term contracts with no way out. Seriously, why wouldn't you want a home security system that gives you

24-7 protection for just $14.99 per month? That's less than half what most companies charge. Visit simplisafebill.com and get an exclusive offer for 10% off. Finally, a home security system you can trust. Again, simplisafebill.com Alright, this is going to be an action-packed podcast today. I think we're going to have three guests. We're going to talk about the Red Sox.

We're going to talk about Kobe Bryant. I wanted to mention I taped a Channel 33 podcast yesterday with Chris Ryan. We started a movie podcast. We want to talk about movies that we like, just rewatchable movies basically. And we did a podcast about Spotlight versus All the President's Men. So you can check that out on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, whatever. Coming up later, we're going to talk Kobe with the immortal Michael Rapaport,

as well as my old Grantland partner in crime, Jake Hasby and Kang, who is the ultimate troll for these sort of things. I can't wait to hear his take. But first, we're going to call my buddy Jacko, diehard Yankee fan, devout Republican, Red Sox hater, to get his take on the David Price contract. Let's call him. Complex litigation.

This is John. Hey, buddy. What's up, Willie? How are you? Good, thanks. How are you? You know, anytime the Red Sox spend $217 million on a pitcher in their 30s, and I feel good about it. I feel like I need to call you to throw some cold water in my face. So get the bucket ready and whip it. Let's hear it.

Well, I just think it's a ridiculous contract. I mean, look, I'm not going to diminish David Price, the guy's a great pitcher, second in the AL Cy Young. He's had a shaky postseason record, but he lights out in the regular season. You needed an ace. I have no quibble with that, but if the last 10 years of baseball have taught us nothing, it's that these long-term extended contracts

end up being a horrific disaster for the team that signs them. From Barry Zito to Robinson Cano to CeCe Sabathia to A-Rod to a litany of other Yankees that they're suffering with to Shara these long-term deals I mean yeah you may get some production and get your money's worth in the early years of it but the later years are just awful and especially you're talking about pitchers the guy's going to have a lot of miles on his arm by the end of that contract and I know Red Sox fans are clinging to this opt-out clause after year three,

like a security blanket to talk themselves into this. But the notion that David Price, at age 33, going into his, when he'll be 34 in the middle of the next season, is going to opt out and leave $120 million on the table, thinking that someone's going to give me longer than four years and $120 million when I'm going to be 34 with 11 years on my arm. I think that's a little bit of a pipe dream to hope that that's going to bail you out of the last four years of that deal.

Did Zach Granke opt out of his monster contract? Yes, he did. Did C.C. Sabathia opt out? Did C.C. Sabathia opt out? It's a $120 million gamble that Price is going to live up to expectations and roll the dice on getting a longer-term deal with more money. Did C.C. Sabathia opt out? Unfortunately, yes.

And then you re-signed him for more money, right? Yes, foolishly. And that should be a glaring lesson to everybody. Don't do that. All right, here's my rebuttal in four parts. First of all, it's not my money, so I don't care. Second of all, free agents

always get overpaid by 25%, right? So, let's say they signed him for seven years for $170 million. Is that a fair contract? Did you have signed off on that? I'm sorry, how many years? Seven years, $170 million. Would you have signed off on that? That'm sorry, how many years? Seven years, $170 million. Would you have signed off on that?

That's fair, right? It's not so much the money for me, it's the years. It's the sticker price. At least it's less money down the line then. But what do I care? Everybody's going to be making... I know you don't care as a fan. I mean, the average fan that's going to be paying $15 for beers, he may care, but I understand

it's easy to say it's not. I like $15 for beers. He may care, but I understand it's easy to say. Like how you did that. Yes. It's not your money, but the problem you face is in 2018, I looked it up at the contracts, you're going to be paying Price, Panda, Porcello, and Hanley Ramirez. As of right now, you're going to be paying those four guys $94 million. So to have $94 million tied up in four guys, now granted, three, four years down the line,

who knows what payrolls will be in baseball at that point, but that's a lot of money tied up in four guys. And I think that the Red Sox must have some budget. I mean, the Yankees are dealing with this now where they have all this dead money tied up in guys that are awful that they would cut if they could. And they can't go out and do anything in the free agent market now because Hal Stubbrenner is like, I'm not spending any more money. And what really screwed them is this luxury tax that if you're over it for, I think if it's for two or three years, I guess three years, you get hit with a 50% tax. So when you're paying $94 million to those four guys, and then, you know, presumably you're going to have another 21 guys on the roster that would like to be paid as well and need to be paid, you start getting into luxury tax implications. And then you go to sign free agents and it's whatever you're paying them plus another 50% on top of that, it becomes prohibitive.

Well, first of all, we're going to frame Hanley for a crime. So we're going to get out of that contract. I'm not worried about that one. Very easy to frame somebody. They've already got Bob Holer on the case to say he's a drug addict or some other scurrilous rumor. I'm not worried about Hanley. They might have to pull that out for Price to get him to opt out after year three if he's awful.

Get Bob Holer on the case to find something on Price. Let's just say if I was Hanley, I'd be careful checking my suitcase before I went to the airport. Right. But, all right, so if they, first of all, Mallory Rubin,

who works with me in this new site that we're building, she told me, we were together yesterday, and she told me they signed David Price. What do you think they signed him for? And my guess was eight years, 280 million. Oh, my God. I just thought that's what it would take.

I was okay with eight years. You've been around the Dodgers too much. I was okay with eight years, 280 million. I was like, whatever. What do I care? Oh, my God. So she told me seven for 217. I immediately felt like we were getting a major deal.

But you know this more than anyone. It's the worst when your team doesn't have an ace. It's like having a shitty hockey goalie or a shitty field goal kicker or a basketball team that doesn't have a crunch time guy. It's just the worst. I hate not having an ace. And now we have a guy that when there's a big series and we stack the rotation on a Friday night at

Fenway, the Yankees are in town and I got David Price pitching. You can't put a price on that, Johnny. You just can't. I mean, he's good. The Yankees actually do fairly well against him. He doesn't really put the fear of God into me. I don't think he's on the next Pedro.

I think he's a very good pitcher. But I don't know if I'm more scared of him than I would have been if he re-signed Lester for two-thirds of that money last year. Yeah, but Johnny, that ship sailed. There was a major, major, major F-up with everything they did from Lester to Hanley to Panda. Lester was ready to stay. He would have taken probably 15% to 20% less than his value

to retire as a Red Sox. And he loved being on the team, and he was a great guy. Right, so you're paying for that mistake. Yeah, oh, we're paying for all the benefits. Ben Charrington, who helped the 2013 title happen, and then I think got in a car accident and had a major head injury that wasn't diagnosed by the NFL concussion protocol people. title happened and then i think got in a car accident and had a major major head injury that wasn't diagnosed by the nfl concussion protocol people and just did 17 terrible things and the

biggest mistake he made was the lester thing because price is what 12 better than lester 13 they're paying him 100 million more than they would have to pay Lester? And we would have had Lester last year. But you need the ace. He's a leader. Here's my price thing. And this is a point that I'm sure will be picked apart on one of those nerdy baseball blogs. Plays in Tampa. He's in front of 20,000 people for the first six years of his career or five years or whatever.

Goes to Detroit. Also not like the most vibrant baseball atmosphere. When he was in Toronto, when he got traded there, those first couple games when the joint was hopping, I do feel like he's a little bit of a performer. And now you could say, well, in the playoffs he didn't pitch well. He was really hopping there and he didn't really rise to that occasion.

Alright, here's where I'm going to borrow this phrase from the Sloan Conference. Small sample size, Johnny going to borrow this phrase from the Sloan conference. Small sample size, Johnny. Not getting carried away with the small David Price sample size because you know what else? I remember in 2008 when he was young and a rookie, he destroyed the 08 Red Sox. He came in, he crushed us. He was the reason we lost that series.

So he can't be all that bad in the postseason. I'm not saying he's a choker. I'm just saying it's not one or two games. I mean, I think he's got like, he's pitched in 15 and started 10 or something. Granted, it's not a season's worth, but it's not one or two games either. He hasn't lived up to his billing.

My point is, this is one of those pitchers, and Pedro is the same way. Obviously, Pedro is the best pitcher of my lifetime. I'm not comparing him to Pedro, but I am comparing him to the experience of Fenway Park, 35,000 people packed in there right on top of each other. It's an atmosphere when there's the right pitcher in there. And I think he's going to thrive off that. I only think there's a few pitchers out there that it could potentially kind of push them up a level. I only think there's a few pitchers out there that

it could potentially kind of push them up a level and I think he's one of them. I think he's a performer. I think he's a guy that likes the big stage. He supposedly doesn't love the scrutiny of the press, which he's going to have in Boston. Who does? Who likes the scrutiny of the press? There's a lot of rumors about that.

Who likes it though? Who's like, hey, you know what? I love the scrutiny of the press. Like Curt Schilling was was like that he turned out to be an a-hole well you get no argument from me on that one but uh there's guys that like it though there's guys who who likes it who likes scrutiny i fucking hate scrutiny i'm getting i'm getting a bit out of shape scrutiny sucks who's like you know whatiny. No, there's guys that love bantering with the press. Who? Curt Schilling. Yeah, Curt Schilling.

I'm trying to think of somebody. What Yankees love dealing with the press? The press is awful. Who wants to deal with the press? You play a game and you have 50 people staring at you afterwards, hoping for some dumb quote to come out of your mouth. What's fun about that? There's engaging with the press,

and then there's having the press pick everything apart. And like, guys have withered, have guys not withered in Boston under the relenting scrutiny and, you know, constant media pressure from all the different TV stations

and the Boston Globe and the Herald and headlines and, you know, price, all they need is like, price sucks, the price is wrong.

What if he goes into a show? You left out the radio people. Exactly. Oh God, that's the biggest one. The radio people are professional trolls now. Felger and Maz and EEI. Dennis and Callahan. He gives up five runs to the Yankees in the first some game and they're going to rip him apart.

I know, but. What are we paying $200 million for? I go crazy. Yeah, but you know what? There's another 200 million dollars for I go crazy yeah but you know what there's another piece of this that I really like you know an African American

pitcher in Boston as like a leader and you know one of the linchpins of the franchise I just like it I just think

it's the right fit we've never had a pitcher like him in a lot of different ways, like how competitive he is, his background's different. I think he likes being a leader. I think it's somebody that you talk about guys like Eduardo Rodriguez and all the younger pitchers, Henry Owens, somebody that they can kind of emulate and learn from.

They didn't have that last year. It's so important to have somebody like that. I can't wait to do a holographic podcast with you in 2020, whatever technology we have then. And you're lamenting prices on and off the DL, and you're paying him $31 million, and he's miserable. He's one of the most durable starting pitchers in the league, though. Sure.

Now he's starting to be on the wrong side of 30. He's not Nolan Ryan. He's not going to pitch until he's 46 with the same level of ability. Tom Verducci wrote a really good piece for Sports Illustrated, a magazine that still exists, about the price deal. Basically, all the information you laid out, big contracts in baseball for guys in their 30s is an outright disaster. And he is basically saying the Red Sox were betting that David Price is an outlier.

Right. You know what? I'm willing to bet that too, Johnny. I think he's an outlier. It's a $120 million roll of dice is what it is, because the first three years he may be very good. You're rolling the dice on that back end of the $120 million that it won't be terrible. But it's a people bet. It's not just like a durability pitcher. All that stuff is kind of in his favor if you're going to make the bet,

but it's also you're betting on the person. You're betting on the impact that he can have in the city as somebody who's just different than a lot of red sox players we've had and also ortiz is leaving right and you need a face of the team and somebody that crosses a lot of barriers and bridges and all that stuff and this could be the guy i mean the upside is if he's great next season the city will love him do you know you know where i read all these exact same quotes about face of the franchise and the different kind of player and the guy we need to bring other people and all that was when the Mariners signed Robinson Cano. They said all these same things.

We had to overpay to get him here to Seattle, and that got the GM fired. And if they could have fired the GM twice, they would have done it. Robinson Cano is miserable. The Mariners are miserable. They're never going to get out from that contract, which is the biggest albatross in history. And they've said all those exact same quotes. Can I ask you a question? You have to swear on the lives of your kids that you're going to answer this from your heart.

Okay. If the Yankees had given David Price seven years, $217 million, would you have been fired up or not? Honest to God, would not have been. The years and the money, I've been bitten in the ass too many times with these. I have. That is true. I'm writing the checks.

That might be a little much, but as a fan, I've been bitten in the ass of my fandom about the Yankees. And now they have this dead weight on their contract with Sabathia, God bless him, and Teixeira. And when they have Greg Bird, who could step in and put up maybe Teixeira-like numbers, but he's blocked because they have Teixeira, who they couldn't give away, making $22 million. They went out and signed Carlos Beltran, who is basically a statue at this point. They paid $15 million to. And they have A-Rod's enormous

albatross of a contract that they have to play him at DH where probably Beltran would be better and cheaper. And they couldn't give A-Rod's contract away. I have an idea for A-Rod, actually. Broadcasting full-time? Yeah. Oh, he's great at it.

Why not just use... What does he make? $25 million for the last year? I don't know. He makes like $30. I think he makes $30 this year and next year. Would you rather have him hitting $240 with 18 homers and he misses half the games, or would you rather have him as the centerpiece of your Yes broadcast every night?

I think he's worth the $30 million. He was unbelievable on TV. It'd be good. I wish there was a way they could do that. Isn't that what the USFL tried to do? When they signed Doug Flutie, he was signed to a personal services contract or something. So they were like, for five years, his personal services will be playing football. And then for five other years, he had to clean Donald Trump's desk or something.

What if they had the broadcast booth right next to the dugout and A-Rod was just a DH and hit four times, but then just announced the game at the same time? That's worth $30 million. They've had player managers before, so why not player broadcasters? Yeah, player announcer. That'd be great. There you go. Groundbreaking. I love the David Price signing.

I'm absolutely 100% willing to do a 180 on this in six months, because that's how I roll. Of course. Fundamentally, I hate not having an ace. I just hate it. I said yesterday to Mallory, I was like, you can't win a World Series without an ace. And she was like, not true.

The Royals did it last year with Johnny Cueto, and he wasn't an ace. And I was like, not true. The Royals did it last year with Johnny Cueto, and he wasn't an ace. Yeah, it's true. And I was like, yeah, but still. I mean, the Mets had four aces, and look where it got them. The Cubs had Arrieta, and they couldn't get over the hump. You know what? Having an ace is like if you're driving, and you don't have your wallet and your driver's license on you, and you just feel unprotected the whole time. You're like, I hope I don't get stopped. That's how i feel like when i'm going through 162 game season

without an ace now i know i have somebody that's going to throw 220 innings and he's going to go 16 and 11 or 17 and 10 or whatever and i have somebody that when a good team comes to town or when i'm on the road or i need a win or we have a four-game losing streak, I have somebody I can send out there that I trust. And I have a closer now, too, Johnny. Johnny, I have a closer. You know who went out and got an ace last year and didn't win the World Series? The Blue Jays.

You know who that ace was? David Price. That wasn't their fault. They were right in that series. If they get past the Royals, they win the World Series. Everybody's talking about our great David Price's. You know, you're all excited. All the Red Sox fans are excited about their closer.

I mean, you guys had a closer. Uhara was not bad. He was solid. And you got a closer from the San Diego Padres. Has he ever closed a big game in his life? Uhara, though, we ran him into the ground in 2013 like they did with Keith Folk in 2004. I know he was up there, but everybody's like, oh, my God, Craig Kimbrell. I'm like, I'm not going to be bouncing my grandkids on my knee talking about Craig Kimbrell.

Yeah, but how many Padres games did you watch in your life? I actually went to a Padres game in person last year. You weren't bouncing your kids on your knee with Craig Kimbrell? I was not. All the baseball nerds love Craig Kimbrell. And the good thing is we didn't really trade. We gave up guys, but they were all blocked. That was a great trade.

I also love having a closer. That's another thing that it's freaky to not have a good closer. It's the worst. I'll believe in Craig Kimbrell when I see it. You're a little scared of this team. You know who else you should be scared of? Dave Dombrowski. He has a little spur up his ass about the Tigers,

not getting rid of them. Went out there, he's making moves. Yeah, he's out there writing checks, doing things. He wants to win now. The worst thing is they'll never be able to recover from the Charrington threesome of the Leicester trade, or the Leicester letting him go, and then the combo of the Sandoval-Ramirez.

The Ramirez, every Dodger fan, we've discussed this, every Dodger fan was like, good luck with that guy. That guy's a cancer. Oh, that guy gets hurt. If he'll slide in the second base, you won't see him for a month. And it was all true. Sandoval I'm not giving up on, though. I do feel like.

That was the biggest mistake of the Charrington era Because they went out and signed him and they had no position for him I guess after Big Papi hangs it up He'll be the DH Not next year but in 2017 I really hope Big Papi's Farewell tour goes better than Kobe's Farewell tour is going

It's one of my goals for 2016 Yeah If Big Papi If he was the equivalent of this Kobe tour, he would just go up and strike out every single time he came up while also throwing his bat into red field. Would be how that played out. At least the poem was good.

All right. So overall, you're delighted that the Red Sox signed David Price. You think we're screwed. You're not worried about the fact that we have so many good young players, including Mookie Betts, who might be the best player. Is it fair to say he's in play for the best baseball player of all time? No, it's a serious question. Would you rather have Mantle in 1952 or Mookie Betts in 2016?

If you were actually in Boston, they would run you out of Boston right now because the consensus is the greatest player of all time is Hall of Famer Xander Bogarts. So, you know, it's really Xander and then there's everybody else. For the X-Man, it's not a best baseball player of all time. It's a best athlete of all time. It's a different conversation. Betts is just the best baseball player of all time. It's the best athlete of all time. It's a different conversation. Betts is just the best baseball player of all time. Jordan, Ali,

Bogarts, Tiger Woods. I don't know. I don't know where he ranks yet. Okay. And JBJ Jr.? Yeah. JBJ? Yeah. Talk about small sample size. We're putting him in the Hall of Fame because we had a good couple

weeks. You know who's going to like him a lot? David Price when he's chasing down those long flies into the triangle. Absolutely, yeah. It's a good squad.

And then after David Price, you run out Purcello and Buckaroo and Weave Miley. We have a lot of young guys. We had a lot of good young guys. A lot of quality young guys

in this race. Remember his row? You got Pablo holding down the hot corner. Yeah, that's a really hot corner man holding down the hot plate i mean that corner that corner's smoky hey quickly before we go can you give us the uh the republican party update so i i haven't called you in a couple weeks not by not choice. I would have called last week, but we had the holidays. It's seeming more and more

like Rubio's going to win, but Trump just isn't. Nate Silver thinks Trump is done and that as soon as other guys drop out, none of their people will jump to Trump. They'll jump to other people. But Trump still lingering in December has to concern you. I was tempted to say that the Republican Party update is I'm trying to decide between a noose

and an overdose of pills. I'm not quite sure which way to go. But yeah, everybody keeps saying, well, Rubio is going to come on and it's going to come down to be Rubio against Cruz. And, you know, Trump can't get beyond a 25% ceiling. But 25% when you got like 14 people in the race is a big number and he you know doubles up other people now maybe that's because it's so spread out with other people but i don't know that i kept hoping he would fade after the summer and people started paying attention to labor day

and then i was like well as we get really closer to iowa it's gonna he's gonna fade and he hasn't faded yet and it's just i mean i've said it every time I bang my head on my desk, because I'm like, I don't know how you could watch him for more than 30 seconds and really envision him being the president with his finger on the button. It's frightening. It's downright frightening because he's an idiot. He's a buffoon. And how people are suckered in by this con man is troubling to me. When you have a wonderful young candidate in Rubio, who would be an amazing contrast, I think, to Hillary Clinton. I know people are not crazy about the Gang of Eight and the immigration deal and all that, but the guy's 45 years old. He's Latino. He's young. He's vibrant.

Compare that with Hillary. I mean, I think it's going to be the most exciting Republican candidate in generations. Wow. And we're going to go down the road of this carnival barker. It's ridiculous. You were not as excited about Ricky Rubio four weeks ago, much less Marco Rubio. I don't know. The last debate, I watched him, and I'm like, he really is good. I have been saying for a long time, I think if you had a ticket of Marco Rubio and Carly Fiorina as the vice president, a Latino and a woman, you have a senator and an outsider, I think that's a winning combination,

and it's tough for the Democrats to do what they usually do, which is portray Republicans as anti-women racists when you have a Latino and a woman on the ticket. That's a little bit of a harder sell. What about Marco Rubio and Ricky Rubio? I think Ricky would be really good with the assist. What about Marco Rubio and Kevin Garnett? Absolutely. So Matt Taibbi, friend of the bill simmons podcast yes he has a great uh theory that is like half kidding but i don't know if he's totally kidding that trump is in full

sabotage mode and that this is becoming the producers with mel brooks well that's actually that's actually not bad like he got in he got in i think he got in as sort of a Hillary stalking horse. I mean, he's very close to the Clintons and he's been basically a Democrat his whole life, which nobody pays any attention to now. And I think they were like, why don't you go in there and say crazy things about immigrants and see what happens? And he took off and then he got the idea like, geez, I could actually win this thing. Or he's like, it's time for me to get out.

I'm tired of doing this. I got everything time for me to get out i'm tired of doing this i got everything that i needed to get out of this i'm just going to say increasingly crazy things until people say you have to drop out but yet every time he says he goes up more i know it doesn't make any sense i mean his thing about 9-11 and thousands of muslims cheering it on television is rank insanity. I mean, that was the most photographed, videotaped, televised event in modern American history, and no one has found a scintilla of evidence to prove it's true. And he goes around the country, and he's beating his chest, swearing it's true, and that people are tweeting him that they saw it, too, On a channel that they don't remember and no one has any footage of. There's ways for him to really ratchet it up if he wants to.

I feel like he's dipping his toe in the water of, I'm going to say something crazy enough that I'd have to bow out. But we all know where the third rail is for him. I think he could kill a guy on stage with his bare hands and that he'd still get 20% of his lunatics to vote for him at this point. The guy who should run is Kobe Bryant, who can't do anything wrong at this point. He goes out every day. He took 26 shots.

He took 17 threes. He's a 20% three-point shooter. Everybody's like, oh, Kobe, emotional to watch. That guy should be the one running for president. Can't do anything wrong. Oh, Kobe took a shit on midc watch. That guy should be the one running for president. Can't do anything wrong. Oh, Kobe took a shit on midcourt. It was great. It was a great shit.

What's he making this year? Didn't they sign him to some extension not that long ago? I think he makes like $80 million or something ridiculous. Yeah, $30 million this year. Oh, my God. It's amazing. They should have just set that money on fire. Well, see, I'd go the other way.

The team sucks, and it's can't miss television now, and all the tickets have gone through the roof. The Kobe farewell tour really is, I mean, they're raking it in from this. How much money are they going to make from this thing? And they're going to be one of the two worst teams and have a real chance at, uh, at my nephew, Ben Simmons.

Oh my God. You'll be so torn by that. You've been in love with him on Twitter. And if he ends up as a Laker, no, I won't the Simmons name on a Lakers Jersey. My God, I'm not going to be torn by it,

Johnny. No, I'm going to be torn up. Yeah. That's, that'd be one of the, one of the worst sports moments of my life. If Ben Simmons ends up in a Laker Jersey,

uh, first of all, I'd have to disown him. I mean, the, the, That would be one of the worst sports moments of my life. If Ben Simmons ends up in a Laker jersey. Wow. First of all, I'd have to disown him. I mean, my hate for the Lakers is going to trump any love for any basketball player named Simmons. So it'll be over. Wow. But to then watch a Simmons, somebody named Simmons reviving and resuscitating the Lakers is about equivalent for me as it would be for you if Trump got the bid. Wow. Yeah.

That's how bummed out I would be. Hopefully that won't happen. I have my fear. God wouldn't do that to me. Why would God do that to me? I might have to change my avatar to a Lakers jersey with Simmons on the back. I'd be so...

I don't know if I'd be able to watch that. I'd be so upset. Wow. All right, Johnny. Strong statement. Thanks for your thoughts on David Price. I'm as excited as I was before I called you. I just want you to know that.

Well, I wish you the worst of luck with it. Thank you. Talk to you soon. All right, that was fun. That was his advertisement. A little background on me and Jack. I don't know if a lot of people know this. We were college roommates at Holy Cross in Worcester. And the reason I bring this up,

I spent the first 32 years of my life living in New England, the first 13 in the Boston area, five in Connecticut, then four in Worcester for college, then another 10 in Brooklyn and Charlestown before I moved out here. You know, it was one of the constants in my life for those first 32 years. Dunkin' Donuts. If you read my Sports Guy column from 97 to 2015, hopefully it's not dead. It's just it's hibernating right now. You might have noticed I had about 790 different Dunkin' Donuts references and jokes. Spent a lot of time drinking Dunkin' Donuts, hanging out in Dunkin' Donuts, writing columns in Dunkin' Donuts.

In the mid-90s, my roommate Jeff Gallo and I used to actually go to Dunkin' Donuts on Fridays and for two hours try to figure out who we were going to bet on that week. I just have so many fond memories of Dunkin' Donuts. So it's my pleasure to tell you about the D.D. Perks loyalty program. It's how Dunkin' Donuts shows its appreciation to its loyal fans, and I am one of them. Members earn points toward free beverage rewards. They get exclusive offers.

They get great perks. They even get a free beverage on their birthday because that's how Dunkin' Donuts rolls. Enroll right now and enjoy loyalty the Dunkin' way. Sign up at ddperks.com or by downloading the Dunkin' mobile app. Get a free beverage when you enroll. Use promo code BS when signing up. Participation may vary. And on a personal note, welcome aboard Dunkin' Donuts. You were always destined to be on my podcast. Quick Dunkin' Donuts story. I'm like 10 years old and maybe 10, 11.

My parents had gotten divorced. My mom moved to Connecticut. We lived in Brookline. I spent a lot of time with my Uncle Bob, my dad's brother, because sometimes I would go to his house after school. We watched General Hospital together during the Luke and Laura era. We just spent a lot of time together. My Uncle Bob always drank Dunkin' Donuts.

And I'm like 11. And it was one of those things where I'm like, someday I'm going to be old enough to drink Dunkin' Donuts. Like, it really, like, Uncle Bob made me a coffee addict just by watching how much he enjoyed the Dunkin' Donuts. He put the cream in it, all that stuff. So I just loved Dunkin' Donuts ever since, uh, my days watching general hospital, Luke and Laura with, uh, with uncle Bob, he's responsible for my coffee

addiction. I have two coffees a day, sadly, not enough Dunkin' Donuts in the California area, but supposedly they're changing that. There's one in Santa Monica, which is very far away from my house. Um, but then there's one coming relatively close to my house. So Dunkin' Donuts will be back in my life. I love Dunkin' Donuts. Anyway, uh, we're going to call Michael Rappaport to talk about Kobe Bryant. Let's do that right now. All right. We had him on a few weeks ago, Michael Rappaport, um, definitely got just about as much feedback for a podcast as I've ever gotten in my life. He was so crazed and excited about the Lativian gangbanger, Christoph Porzingis, as he called it,

which is now, I think should be his new nickname, the Lativian gangbanger. And we had a great podcast. Could not resist calling him because he loves basketball as much as I do and has to just be traumatized and horrified by Kobe's farewell tour. So let's hear from him. Michael Rapaport, how are you?

Alright, well listen, Bill. We're not talking about the gangbanger, the Lativian gangbanger, which I think everybody's looking for a nickname for him and I think that kind of just makes the most sense. And we're not talking about Burgess Meredith and his sexual prowess

and his loaf game. We're not talking about that. And we're not talking about, even though I've gotten asked literally about a hundred times face-to-face in the streets of New York about the now-famous Sapruta tapes of the edited-out footage from our podcast. We're not going to discuss that. Okay, there's like seven missing minutes in the Watergate tapes. People ask me every day.

They're like, what did he say? What did he say? And I said, you know, you got to pay to play, and I'll give you all the answers you want. And everyone, then that's the end of the conversation. At some point, you'll get paid. But I want to talk, say it again. At some point, someone will pay you for the missing seven minutes of the Watergate, your recollection of the Watergate tapes. But go ahead.

My recollection. Then it becomes my recollections. And then when, like, I'm on my deathbed. They're going to be like, can you please just remember? What do you remember about that day with Bill Simmons discussing the now famous missing seven minutes

from that podcast? But what I'm calling in about, what I'm calling to talk to you about is the shit show, the parade of shit that is going to turn into the rest of the Los Angeles Lakers season and the final, I don't know, 60 games of Kobe Bryant's career.

It is an abomination. And the first thing that it brings to mind is what they did to Dr. J when they gave him all the gifts. But then even closer to that is what happened to Jeter and how it just ruined the last season for the Yankees. And you're treating it like it's a charity case. You know, they're out there shaking it. And listen, and I say this, Kobe's one of my favorite players of all time.

He deserves everything. But there has to be a limit. Like, I don't know if he announced it too early or what. And I know, you know, it feels like it was a completely genuine, organic thing that happened. And he said, I'm pulling the plug. I'm announcing it. And he seems like he's come to peace with it.

But there's got to be a middle ground. Like, this can't happen every night. And the fact that they lost to the Philadelphia 76ers last night, and that wasn't even a mention, like, they should be ashamed of themselves. And Kobe being Kobe, like, there still has to be a little bit of that fire in him. Like, at the end of the game, they're talking, and he's in his suit, and he looks great. And, again, I love Kobe, but, like, yo, you just lost to the Sixers.

Right. You just lost to the 76ers the first time of year, and they're out there giving you jerseys, and this coach is out there, and then they're, you know, and next thing you know, they're going to start, you know, like on Steiner Sports, they're going to, you know, be hocking his jockstrap online. It's too early.

It's too much. And the fact that the team is such a mess, that Laker team, and nobody's saying anything about that. It's like, talk about throwing in the towel. I mean, it's pathetic. It's pathetic. And at what point does it end? At what point do you think about, like, you know,

these young players and, like, making it about them? Because this entire season now is going to be focused on the farewell tour. And it's not a good farewell tour. It's not good. It's too much. It's too much and it's too soon. It reminds me of, first of all, I take issue with what you said about how it was organically handled, the announcement. You don't think so? that he announced it in the website that he had purchased a stake in, and then he also

printed out a whole poem that was printed out way ahead of time to hand out to the fans. It seemed to me like there was some real thought and time and energy put into how to actually do this. Okay, okay. See, that's why you're Bill Simmons, and I'm just a rabid caller calling in from God knows where. Kobe, since he blew out his Achilles, which we all wondered if that was going to be the death sentence for his career.

I assume that it would because he was over 50,000 minutes. Like NBA players are like cars. If you put a car over 200,000 miles, at that point, you're afraid to drive from New York to Boston on the Merritt Parkway and the Mass Pike. Like you're just, you're not even taking that car for a 200 mile ride. Kobe had passed 50,000. Blows out his Achilles. It seemed like his body was telling him, it's over, I'm done.

So you go back and you look at the last three years that he played. He played six games the next season 35 games last year 14 games this year he's shooting 36 percent horrible he takes 5.6 threes a game he makes 25.8 percent of them only goes to the foul line six times he's making three and a half turnovers a game like this is now a three season stretch of some of the worst basketball ever played by a superstar player. And you watch him last night. He took 26 shots. He took 17 threes.

He's airballing. He's dribbling off his foot. And I'm watching going, this is why I stopped playing pickup basketball. Because I was becoming, you never want to become that guy. And my question is, how is he enjoying this? That's the part I don't understand. This is one of the great competitors of all time and he's like dribbling the ball off his foot with t.j mcconnell guarding him what what is in it for him i don't get it that's that's what i'm saying and like i would expect him to you know like there's got to be a limit like we can't watch

this for 60 games like it can't be every city. It can't be every layup that he does in the warm-ups. And it's going to be like, you know, like a freakout. This is too much. And for him to sort of come to terms with the fact that I'm going to play crappy the rest of the season, and he's smiling more in these 14 games than he did in his entire career. You know, like, he didn't play games with these dudes.

He wasn't out there shaking his head. He was, like, the thing that I love about Kobe is that he's one of these, the last of a dying breed with Garnett and Pierce and a few others that are still in the league, that he's not friends with these dudes. Now he's out there shaking hands, and I feel like he's almost, like, you know, like, softening them up so they won't go in for the kill. I remember one time watching Jordan. It was the same type of thing with young Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker.

They were trying to go at him, and I don't like it. He deserves better, and I think he needs to rethink how this is going to play out the rest of the season. Obviously, the magic is gone. I'm sure there will be one or two games where something spectacular happens. I don't know how this helps Julius Randle, D'Angelo Williams, D'Angelo Russell, and even

that prankster Swaggy P with his haircut and his funny outfit. I don't know how this helps any of them. And at what point is Byron Scott held accountable? I'm a fan of Byron Scott, too, but at what point is he held accountable for accountable? I'm a fan of Byron Scott too, but at what point is he held accountable for this?

You're not a fan of him as a coach, I hope. I mean, he's one of the worst coaches of this decade. Again, I'm calling him from a pay phone and you're Bill Simmons. Break it down, Bill. So, first of all, Byron Scott should... This is just an out-and-out atrocity.

And the only explanation could be that they basically asked him to do everything possible to make sure the Lakers were one of the two worst teams in the league. Because that's the only explanation for every coaching decision he's made. What I don't, like yesterday on Twitter, I compared what Kobe's doing. I know you've seen this movie you've seen every sports movie the end of tin cup when costner is trying to get over the water in two and he throws away the u.s open and yet he's like now it's like i'm gonna i'm just gonna it's gonna happen i gotta make the shot and he keeps trying he can keeps trying. He can't do it. He can't do it. Then he finally makes it with his last ball in his bag.

And Rene Russo says to him, who cares if you didn't win the U.S. Open? They're always going to remember you're 12. And it's like, is this the outcome for Kobe Bryant? Where it's like, who cares if you just put together the worst statistical season of all time? They're always going to remember your seven for 36 in Boston. No, no.

He deserves better, and I think that, you know, I don't know if it's over Christmas break or Hanukkah. I don't know what he's into these days, but he needs to, like, slow it down, take another meditation now that he made the announcement, because I know he's in his meditation. He's talking about that. He's all zenned out, and I love him. I love Kobe Bryant, but we need to rethink this.

It's too early in the season, and it's too ugly. And you know what I want to ask you about again because I'm collect calling from a pay phone in a subway is this whole thing about tanking, and then they draft these kids that aren't ready to play in the NBA. They're not impact players. The Lakers have done it two years in a row, or three years, with Julius Randle, who I think will become a good player.

I don't know what Russell will become. The Sixers have been doing it for the last five years. They're pathetic. I mean, at what point does it say, like, the system isn't working? Like, it's broken. And this whole tanking and we're going to draft the next 19-year-old kid who doesn't shave, and he's going to come in and he needs a four-year project. It's bad for the league.

Somebody needs to step in. You look at Philly, and they draft— Not everybody is the Lativian gangbanger. I know. Well, they should have drafted the Lativian Gangbanger. I know. Well, that's it. They should have drafted the Lativian Gangbanger. They draft Okafor, who's a terrible defensive player, but a really promising

low post player. Like, he's good down there. And they give him the worst... But promising. So he's a three-year project. I know, but... He's a child. So it's year one for him

to kind of learn his craft on the low post. And kick some ass to kick some Boston fans' asses. on the low post. And kick some Boston fans' asses. Well, that too. And to drive 108 miles an hour in the Ben Franklin Bridge. I'm not one to judge since I made plenty of mistakes in that

18 to 22 range, but he's supposed to be practicing his low post craft. They give him the worst guards in the league, none of whom can throw him an entry pass. You know, and then there's New Orleans, who's a very good defensive player, has a chance to be a top three, top four defensive shot blocker slash big guy, and is a horrendous offensive player, and is only going to be more horrendous when you're putting him around with all these terrible perimeter people. So if you're building something long-term, I don't understand how it helps you, not just to put your low post guys and your big guys with just terrible perimeter players, but also you look at the Lakers and it's like, Hey, D'Angelo Russell, here's year one. You're

going to play with Kobe Bryant. He's going to go seven for 26. Here's Roy Hibbert, who's a disaster. And here's,ta World Peace. Those are going to be three-year teammates that you're going to play with. How does that help D'Angelo Russell? This is so short-sighted. That's the part I don't understand. That's what I'm saying. And is it to sell tickets?

I don't understand. It's just not good. How is this developing D'Angelo Russell and Julius Randle? I just don't get it. And at a certain point, you know, the Lakers need to evaluate, and Kobe needs to think, like, what is going to be beneficial to this franchise that he's been so loyal to that he stayed with and that he's, you know,

he's one, two, or three is the greatest Laker of all time. Like, they're going to be, next year's going to be worse. It's going to be worse because these guys aren't going to have time to develop because there's Laker, because there's jersey exchanging ceremonies every five minutes before the game, after the game. You hate that. You know, I hate it. It's not soccer.

They're doing it in the NFL, too. These guys are out there signing. They're getting naked. Here, take this wristband. I mean, it's just out of control. Everything is for the Instagram, and Kobe is now being pushed to participate in these 15-second clips, and he's better than that, and he deserves better than that, and the whole thing needs to be re-thunk

because it's 60 games of this we have to watch. So I hate being the guy especially this boy i'm technically a sports media i don't even know what i am but i hate just for the media i hate from my couch and from your payphone in the subway for us to just decide what kobe bryant should do as an athlete the guy had a great career he's one of the 10 to 12 best players ever by any calculation. I think he's the third best guard of all time behind Magic, Michael and Magic. I don't think we should be the ones telling him when he should hang it up. So with that said, watching this is surreal. I can't remember another great player looking this bad at the end of their career.

Like Kareem in 89, like he's bald. He was a fossil, but they could still run plays. He could get his sky hook. Hakeem was in Toronto. You know, he was a shell of himself, but he could at least like grab a rebound. Kobe's literally a 25% shooter. And it doesn't seem like there's any way it's going to get better from what we're watching.

And he seems like he's delusional about it. Like he made those first three yesterday and watching it. Like I, I think he felt like I'm going off. I might score 70 tonight. I think he genuinely felt that way. That's what's weird about this. The switch might,

it might happen. I'm not going to be surprised if he has a 60-point game, like if he gets hot. But when you realize that you – I just think he knows the game better than what he's doing. Be a distributor. Sucky Kobe Bryant has more attention on him than good Kobe Bryant because now every time he gets the ball, you can feel the rumblings in the crowd. Distribute the ball, pass the ball.

He could average. That should be his goal. I'm going to average 9 to 11 assists a game that I play in. That would be like a dignified way to go out. Instead of trying to get the old magic back. Right. I don't know. I've got to call him up or something.

I see if he'll take a collect call from me and take him out for French toast or something. Something's got to give. a collect call from me and take him out for French toast or something. Something's got to give. I can't watch 60 games of this nonsense. Don't you think he probably, if it doesn't get better in the next two to three weeks, he probably retires? I think he's too competitive and he's too proud

to just be bad at basketball night after night. I don't see him doing it. Well, I would hope that. Or maybe after All-Star or at All-Star. I don't see him doing it. Well, I would hope that. Or maybe after All-Star or at All-Star. I don't know. I would hope that, but I feel like now it's just a shit show. Then he's going to feel like he didn't finish out and he's quitting. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I feel like that's what I'm saying. It wasn't thought out. That's what I'm saying. I feel like this wasn't planned out correctly. I don't know what's going to happen, but I don't like it. I don't like it for him. He deserves better.

It's hard to believe that Jimmy Buss and Byron Scott couldn't have helped him. Oh, wait. It's totally easy to believe that this is in the wrong hands. All right. Will you come back before the holidays so we can do another podcast on the Lativian Gangbanger? We've got to talk about Creed. We can update Kobe. So like two weeks from now, come back.

Let me just tell you something. I literally had actual tears coming down my actual face watching Creed two times during the movie. Okay, save it. Save it. We'll save it for two weeks from now. All right. I gave it a two thumbs up. Oh, I gave it two. All my appendages are up for Creed.

I gave it five appendages up. Yeah, I dug it. All right. I'll talk to you soon. up for Creed. I gave it five appendages up. Yeah, I dug it. All right. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, buddy. I'll see you soon. And I'll just poise this and you can act like you edited it out. Just tell me one more time.

That thing that happened at ESPN. Bad connection. Bad connection. Well, I'm glad we talked that out. Thanks, Michael. All right. Jay Caspian Kang, my old Grantland partner in crime, is going to call in. I can't wait to hear his thoughts about Kobe.

I just picture him cackling. But before we do that, the holidays are pretty much here. I know you don't have time to go to a packed post office, stand in line, listen to annoying people taking forever to mail holiday gifts and packages. I have an idea. Just use stamps.com. At stamps.com, you can buy and print official U.S. postage for any letter or package using your own computer and printer.

Sign up for stamps.com right now and use the promo code BS. You get a four-week trial plus a $110 bonus offer that includes postage and a digital scale. Go to stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in BS. That's stamps.com, enter BS. All right, last but not least, as promised, one of the founding editors of Grantland, he now writes for the New York Times Magazine. And one of my favorite things from the first year of grantland was when something crazy or ridiculous would happen jay casby and kang would uh he'd just start cackling like kind of a crazy person he just

gets so much enjoyment out of out of how crazy or ridiculous or whatever the whole thing was he'd just be cackling like a little kid and i just pictured him last night cackling during Kobe seven for 26 performance in Philly. And I had to call to find out. So Jay, how are you? Good. It's,

uh, it's good. Uh, it's good to be in this new space that you're in. Um, the BS podcast. It's a new generation. Um,

I like Tate. Is Tate from Chapel Hill? This is what I've, I can't figure out. Did he go to Carolina or something like that? I can't tell from the, uh, from the is Tate from Chapel Hill. This is what I've, I can't figure out. Did he go to Carolina or something like that? I can't tell from the, uh, from the podcast that I've listened to. I just know that he's from North Carolina. He's from North Carolina.

He went to Carolina and he's friends with James Michael McAdoo. How about that? Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. He's replaced you as my number one person in my life who knows the most about Carolina. Like, he's, Tate goes dark. Tate goes Carolina underground with some of the stories.

Like, we couldn't even put them on the podcast. But it's a story for another time. Academic scandal style or more like? A lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. I'm just urging him to enjoy this last Carolina basketball year before the program is

suspended for 15 years so i i think you should enjoy it too um yeah no i did i have been enjoying it um last night was actually pretty good all right so kobe bryant you've been known to dwell on the internet circles from time to time uh what you love basketball you You love things like this. What is your reaction as you watch this, as this Kobe farewell tour? It's kind of sad. I think I fluctuate between sad and then moments of, like, things that are so funny that I can't actually really not think they're funny, even though I think they're sad. And then just, like, kind of annoyance at some of the ways in which it's been processed on the internet.

I think there seems to be a group of people, and maybe this is my bubble or whatever, but that are on basketball Twitter who seem to constantly point out that Kobe's field goal percentage is bad. It's obviously bad. He's obviously a terrible basketball player right now and it seems like a very odd way to sort of take in a 20-year career that at times is like great and at times is not great and at times like filled with like terrible allegations to just point out that he's like not good anymore um i don't know it just seems like an odd way to sort of excerpt it uh but you know that's that's a small part of it the other parts that are excerpted which are like his sort of terrible drive to the basket last night where you know he it didn't seem like he knows how to jump or dribble anymore yeah just

like kind of shocking um sort of three-pointer he missed after hitting the three-pointer uh i don't know they're pretty funny like they're funny vines to watch but but I also feel like I'm watching something that should depress me as I get older. I feel depressed, transfixed. I watched basically that whole game last night, and I couldn't stop watching it. I didn't want to keep watching it, but I can't believe that he's just going down in flames like this in a way that he seems fine with. It really seems like he thinks the next shot is going to be the shot that turns this around, which is what makes it so compelling. It's not like when Hakeem was in Toronto, Hakeem knew it was over. Patrick Ewing was in Seattle.

He's like, I know it's over. Kobe, I'm not sure. I think he still thinks there's a chance it's going to come back, which is what I'm the most riveted by. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I mean, what do you think, in Kobe's mind, do you think he would be like? I've been thinking about this recently, like, what he would be happy with

and what, like, Lakers fans would accept as, like, an okay outcome of all this. Because, you know, he keeps shooting so that i thought that philly was interesting because there's like this moment where maybe playing in front of the fans who booed him with that sort of narrative which i always thought was a bit overplayed but it's still a narrative you know um that if he like put up like 36 in one game and then was terrible after that you know like maybe that would be enough you know like he just needs that one moment but i don't know do you think he's thinking that would be enough, you know, like he just needs that one moment. But I don't know. Do you think he's thinking that way?

That like he understands, do you think he understands that he's not going to score like 36 every night? He's just trying to get to like one good moment so that he can retire after that or something like that. His quotes have been all over the place. Like last week he said, hey, if I wanted to score 80, I could go do that. But blah, blah, blah. And then even last night he was talking about how he made his first three

and the guys on the bench were wondering if it was going to be like the 81 point game again. It's like, I wasn't wondering that. I was amazed that you made three shots in a row. But it's funny because whatever's happening to him has exacerbated all of the bad habits he had as a basketball player for 20 years, which is one of the reasons this is so riveting to watch. But at the same time, it's really admirable to watch somebody who's as proud, as confident as he is, just unwilling to accept that he's at a different stage of his career.

He's still going to take 26 shots. He doesn't care. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking about this a couple days ago and um i mean what do you think is is there like what is sadder to you to watch or more painful for you to watch like kobe doing this or like tiger being terrible this is a different level than tiger being terrible like tiger can hang around in a tournament for a couple rounds, right? I think maybe once a month, Kobe could have a really good game where he goes 15 for 24 and makes seven threes.

It might happen once a month. He'd have to make threes because athletically, I don't think he can beat guys off the dribble anymore. What he really should be doing is, you know, trying to facilitate stuff for other guys and playing it that way. And just being like the smart guy in the pickup game who knows basketball and knows where to go and get and maybe get some offensive rebound layups and only shoots when he's wide open. And just kind of doesn't try to take too much off the table. And he went the opposite. He's trying to be the guy. And that's the part that I think is, I didn't quite expect. Like nobody, no player who has reached this point of their career, no great player has still tried to be the great player until the absolute bitter end,

other than Jordan. And by the way, Jordan and the Wizards wasn't as bad as people remember. Like that guy was still 20 points a night and was still winning games and making game winning shots. He was not, he didn't look like this. He had changed his game a bit, right? He was like in the post more and he was like, he still had those, I think he had like a couple of 50 point games, stuff like that. It just doesn't seem like that's going to happen for Kobe.

I don't know. I just can't, I actually just think that we're in like uncharted waters too and i just i can't like watching tiger street like 85 is pretty bad but uh you're right this is like a nightly thing this is probably like i can't remember the athlete sort of acting this way i mean people tell stories about woolly maize and centerfield with the metsets, but... Right. I mean, I wasn't alive then, but, like, but, you know, and people talk about it with such hurt.

You know, like, if you talk to Giants fans who watched him earlier on in his career, like, would they mention that? Like, you can feel that they're hurt by it. Right. Like, I think that might be, I think, like, there is a sense, some people might think, like,

oh, well, Kobe, you know, people will forget about this, which I think they mostly will, but I think that they probably, if you bring it up to them they'll remember it if that makes sense you know like that it's bad enough that like it won't be completely forgotten and that if you say like well do you remember when kobe played like 40 years and it's only 40 games in his last year how bad he was i think it's gotten so bad that people it's probably etched into like like your fans memories at this point well Well, so that's that, those are the stakes, right? So if he, let's say he retired three weeks from now,

I don't think anybody would really remember this last year. What happens is people remember the good stuff. They don't remember. They won't remember like the last three years of his career. Like he basically wasn't, wasn't a good basketball player. Where you don't want to be is the Willie Mays territory. Because that became part of Willie Mays' legacy. You always hear, he's always the go-to example. It's like Willie Mays stumbling around in the 73 World Series

or Ali versus Holmes. Those are the two that everyone mentions. Nobody else has really entered that, I guess, level. And Kobe, if he does this for the whole season and he's terrible game after game after game, will now get moved into that group for the rest of his career and it'll be part of his career. And if I'm him, I don't want that. But who are we to say? That's the thing. It's like, this is his last chance to play basketball. Maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he just wants to go to every city and get cheered and take shots and hope this is the day where they start going. It's almost like me playing golf.

I play golf and it's like, maybe today's the day I'm going to shoot an 85. Never happens. But maybe that's his mentality. There's a weird, like, sort of guylessness about it, right? Like he clearly doesn't care about his teammates. He clearly doesn't care about the Lakers and Court Byron Scott. He doesn't care if they win games. All he wants are like, I think he just wants like five games where he's great, you know?

Right. And he wants like two of them to be against like i bet he wants like one against the lake but against like the warriors or something like that at staples center where he's like 45 you know and that's not a game winner yeah that's not gonna but in his head like you can imagine that like even the most modest i guess i or the most realistic i can imagine kobe is that is that you know that. That would be the bottom level of expectation for him, I think. Don't you think so? Yeah.

There probably is a scenario where he actually just thinks he's awesome still and that he's getting unlucky. And he's just like, variance, variance. I actually think that might be it. I think there's a chance that he's going, I just need to get my legs. And they're going to come back and I'm going to show everybody. Like, I do feel like that might be part of this. But it's certainly...

I'll go ahead up there. Well, it's certainly all the things that annoyed me as a basketball fan about him as a basketball player. And I begrudgingly came to really respect him I'm sure Lakers Celtics was a part of it but the guy was a great competitor and the second best two guard of all time and really clutch and was never afraid of big moments and was you know just had an awesome career and uh and if he had kind of a fly in the ointment it was that he would just stubbornly when things were going bad he would just stubbornly, when things were going bad, he would just stubbornly keep shooting.

And that was like in 2010, the Celtics in game seven constructed their entire game plan about around forcing him to keep trying to be the hero, even if he was being double teamed. Like go back and watch that tape. That was their whole game plan was we're sending two guys at him. He's going to keep shooting anyway because he wants to be the hero. It's a game seven. And it almost worked. So basically this is the same guy five, six years later saying to himself,

I can still be the hero. It's going to happen. I don't care if the obstacles are against me. So maybe this is who he is. Do you think that he like he's the um most sort of that he's the great like the great player who cared the most about those sorts of individual accolades and like those sorts of individual i guess they're almost ideas right like a hero of a game seven or like uh you know like or you know lat kobe's last stand.

I guess I can't remember a basketball player that I think was as clearly obsessed with all of those. I know what your question is. The guys who care about their numbers. Your question is, is he the most self-aware superstar the NBA's ever had? And I think the answer is yes. Right? Who else is up there with him, though, do you think?

I think LeBron is really self-aware but i think look i think lebron's instinct has always been i want to make my teammates better it was always he he felt like he was almost being pigeonholed when he had to be the guy who just shot all the time his dream scenario was to shoot 15 times in a game and have 12 assists and 12 rebounds and maybe kind of take over when it matters. But he loved being part of a team. And I think most of the great players were like that. Um, the non centers, Colby was Colby and Jordan. I think were the two guys that were like,

whatever the best situation is for me is going to be the best situation for the team. Like they really believe that. And, uh, and that's kind of what made them who they were you know he kobe didn't care he wasn't like i gotta get lamar odom involved like he didn't care he's like you know what lamar odom's gonna have to get himself involved because he's on my team and and uh and on me and it worked he won five titles so it's hard to say that's the amazing part I just can't remember a player who was more, I guess, self-aware in some parts, but then self-unaware enough to know that when he didn't remember.

There was one game, I think it was when I was even at Grantland, I think I was even in a building or something like that, where he passed to Bynum at the end of a playoff game instead of shooting it. Do you remember this? Yeah. And then Kobe basically makes a beeline to the sideline reporter after the game end of a playoff game instead of shooting it do you remember this and then like kobe like basically makes a beeline to the sideline reporter after the game and is like like yeah i'm passing that you know like he gives this whole speech about it i don't feel like it felt like it was prepared

and anyone who's watched any basketball or knows kobe like understands that this is all garbage the next time he's gonna take the shot and then that way he's kind of like weirdly not self-aware about that but i guess but definitely self-aware in the sense that way he's kind of like weirdly not self-aware about that but i guess but definitely self-aware in the sense that like he's always thinking about how people like are perceiving him and what these moments might mean for him well you could see that in the in the documentary they made that documentary and they initially made it the same way you make any documentary they went out and they did a million interviews and did a conventional documentary.

And he basically convinced the director to scrap that approach and just do the approach of him staring at the camera. And it's basically just COVID all the time. And it was compelling in its own way. It was different, but he thought that was the best idea. What if I'm the only interview? What if it's just me talking to the camera for an

hour and a half with with different footage of me he's like that's that's the idea that can work like who thinks like that he's what a fascinating guy i mean the perfect guy for how life changed from 96 to 2016 right the internet comes in he's perfect who's better he is actually the most like uh he's like the most uh discussable athlete i think or the nba has had ever i mean just in terms of jitter and conversation especially in southern california you know like i think that that's part of the thing that people who don't live there don't quite get i didn't get until I moved there. Yep. Just, like, he's, like, the biggest star in L.A., you know, and, like, a town of stars. Like, it's not even close, really, you know?

Yeah. Like, he's, like, people love him there. And defend him to the bitter end. Like, you cannot doubt the loyalty and the love that the Laker fans have for Kobe. They will fight and defend that guy forever. Yeah, Through everything. Even now, I bet half of them

actually think he's going to come back and that he's going to be great. Can we say last thing and then I'll let you go. From a basketball Twitter standpoint, and I know you love those circles, between this and the Golden State streak,

I think we're now in the golden age of just the NBA's relationship with Twitter and just how essential it's become to just watching multiple games at once, but also checking Twitter to see the instant reactions and the vines. It's the perfect sport for where we are from a social media standpoint in 2016 you know or 2015 almost 2016 but it just fits something happens oh hey here's the vine five seconds later um yeah yeah almost everything in basketball that happens on a court that's cool also like lasts less than six seconds yeah so you can like put it on a vine immediately and just watch it on loop like uh it was a big first big one or the one that I just remember being like, oh, this is amazing, was when Steph last year did that sort of double behind-the-back crossover and Chris Paul fell down.

I think I watched that like 100 times that night. Anytime it popped up on my feed, I watched it again. Oh, man, that's great. I don't remember if it was last season or this season before that but blake had some crazy dunk on somebody and i had my i pulled my iphone out and we were just on on uh twitter searching blake dunk video over and over i just kept pressing refresh for four minutes and then somebody had it and we just watched it from our seats it just happened it just happened right in front of us and and we were and i was with mike tolan who i shared the tickets with and we were just like this is amazing like what's happened with tech this is

freaking incredible we just saw the guy dunk now i'm watching on my phone certainly uh not something i ever expected to happen as a basketball fan great times the kobe thing also like let's say this was happening 25 years ago. We don't have league pass. This is just kind of happening in a box score vacuum in SportsCenter highlights with, like, Craig Kilbourne maybe kind of showing us a couple air balls at 2 in the morning. And that's how we're consuming it.

It's just different, you know? Yeah, the Lakers have become like, I bet if you, I mean, there must be a lot of people watching these games. I mean, it felt like there are a ton of people watching this Lakers-Sixers game, right? Oh, yeah. The two worst teams in the league by far and probably didn't have a huge rating for league pass.

It really was an amazing game. I mean, the Sixers, poor Okafor. Good God. Yeah, I know. I take this weird glee. I know, you hate Duke. I take this weird glee out of it because it reverses all the usual Duke narratives, you know, about

kids staying in college and learning how to be men and all this stuff. And then I didn't even play defense. Tate is just laughing happily over my right shoulder right now I just could not love this conversation anymore alright what are you working on for the

Times Magazine right now it's like a sort of crime story I probably shouldn't say too much about it don't tip your hat you like that you love crime stories though that's like That's one of your favorites. Yeah, weirdly, I enjoy watching the legal process.

I went to a courtroom the other day and was there for nine hours, and I was riveted the whole time. It was mostly filing motions and stuff like that. I think I should have been a lawyer, you know, because I find it all so fascinating. All right. Well, we'll talk about Grantland another time. You were a huge part the first year, and you helped find a bunch of writers and wrote some great things for us, too.

It was weird, like, reading some of the tributes and stuff. It was really geared toward the last 18 to 24 months, and there was this whole other site that happened that first year when there wasn't a lot of us and there was big responsibilities and yeah people writing a lot of stuff and one of my favorite things that we that i did that i was involved with those those four years at grantland was uh when you know of course we launched the site and immediately there's an NBA lockout. It is the worst possible.

We launched the site on June 8th and on July 1st, there's no basketball. It's just gone. And it was going to be a huge part of what the site was built around. And we were just so screwed. And I think at some point in like September and October, you came up with this idea how Larry Ellison should buy, should just start a basketball league with his millions of dollars. And we wrote this whole, what do we call it?

The Oracle, the Oracle league. Yeah. The Oracle league, the Atlanta waffle houses. Like they were just being sponsored. That was like one of the best feedback things. Do you remember that some guy like wrote in and email and he had designed designed the jerseys that was awesome we came up we so you and i we created

this whole alternate basketball league we picked all the teams and we had they all had sponsored nicknames because we needed sponsor money for to pay for the basketball teams and it was like the atlanta waffle houses and things like that and. And we just did this whole back and forth on all the players are in it. What would the expansion draft look like? Here are the teams. We went all in because we had no basketball and we were so bored. We just were so desperate to have basketball conversations that we ended up creating this massive piece about some fake alternate reality basketball league that in six weeks later, the NBA came back and it was moot.

Yeah. Somebody sent me my picks or sent me a tweet being like, your picks are terrible. And I went back and it's like, inoffensible. I should have never been writing about basketball. If you look at my picks, it's like the worst team ever. Listen, I had some awful ones too. It's also a nice snapshot

of where the league was in 2011 because we had some guys ranked really high and then the other funny thing that happened with you when you were there

and really in the full throttle things was all of a sudden Linsanity happened out of nowhere. Oh my God, greatest, yeah. I mean, that was one of the best things that happened at Grantland that first year.

How much Linsanity mileage did we get? I don't know. I mean, I just hope that it happens again. That was actually something I was thinking about with Kobe. I don't know if I'm ever going to have him. You know, because I went to that game that Jeremy Lynn played at MSG against the Lakers. Yeah. Where he scored like 38 points, I won't remember.

Right. And they were like going back and forth. And at some point, Kobe started coming on. And I started like crying because it was so exciting. Like I couldn't handle it. I don't know if I'm ever going to be that excited by a basketball game ever again. It was like Kobe versus Jeremy Lynn. It was like the weirdest thing ever.

In MSG. It was great. Yeah. And people are going crazy in there, you know, like crazy. It was just like, yeah. I remember we sent you back. Didn't we? We sent you back for that, hoping it would be a good game.

Is that what happened? Yeah, I remember the conversation because it was like he had scored like. He had a couple of good ones. It was starting to bubble up. And then at some point we were in the conversation because it was like he had scored like... He had a couple good ones. It was starting to bubble up and then at some point we were in the office and you're like, man, he scored like 24 points in like three straight games. Maybe this is a thing, you know? We should go back. And then I went out there and then he had like two more games and then I went to that game.

And that was like sort of the crazy game. So it's like, yeah, it's one of those good luck things, I think. Where does it rank? Where does the whole Insanity Run rank in the whole Asian-American sports vortex? Oh, it is without question number one. It's not even close. I had this buddy who said it was like the greatest two weeks of his life,

and I thought about it, and I was like, that's ridiculous. And then I thought about it for a while, and I was like, okay. All right, then you're like, well, definitely top three. Yeah. Top three.

It was incredible. He's actually been, you know, he's had moments in Charlotte. He's, he, uh, he has a cool haircut. I don't know. You've probably seen the haircut. It looks, it adds a little, adds a little something to him. I don't know. I like it.

Um, but he's been pretty good. Like Charlotte's way better than I thought they were going to be. Although Jefferson just got hurt. But I'm always rooting for him because Linsanity was just so, especially when it happened because we just had this awful lockout. We were so mad about basketball. And then everybody comes back and it was a big people switching teams. The Chris Paul trade got vetoed. And it was just a lot about business and david stern and stuff that wasn't that fun

and then all of a sudden insanity happened and it seemed like basketball was fun again from that point on anyway yeah yeah i mean people are really excited here about porzingis but it's not the same level i don't think you know it's really just sort of basketball knicks fans are excited about well you know porzingis needs one one game in MSG against a good team where he hits like nine threes, and that will push it. You know, he hasn't had like the – he had a game on a road, but not the signature MSG, oh, my God, this is it. This is the moment that we – you know, the moment that I'll tape on my DVR

and I'm not going to delete it. He hasn't had that game yet. Anyway, Jay Caspian Kang, a pleasure. Yeah, thanks, Bill. It's great talking to you again. Great talking to you. Thanks for everything you did with Grantland, and I'll talk to you via email.

BS Report coming back on Friday with Joe House basketball, NFL, whole bunch of stuff. Until then. That's it for the BS podcast. Coming back on Friday with Joe House talking NFL, NBA, and I'm sure Kobe and a whole bunch of other stuff. Might cram my dad in there at the end who's still just really upset about Gronk

and just has Dave Price. He's out of his mind right now, so we might, might sneak in time for him too. Today's episode was brought to you by my longtime buddy, Duncan donuts. If you enroll in the DD perks members in earn points toward free beverage awards, they get exclusive offers and great perks. They even get a free beverage on their birthday.

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