The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 52: The 2016 Oscars with Wesley Morris

Episode Date: January 20, 2016

HBO's Bill Simmons catches up with Pulitzer Prize winner Wesley Morris to discuss a possible Oscars boycott by black performers, Spike Lee (13:05), Hollywood's real race problem (23:00), Chris Rock (32:00), Best Picture nominees (41:00), 'Room' (44:20), 'The Revenant' (50:00), the 2009 & 1999 Oscars (53:00) and 'The Martian' (1:08:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You get the best 24-7 protection for just $14.99 a month. The only security I trust. Visit SimpliSafeBill.com to get my 10% off discount. And we're off. It's been a couple months since he was here. This wasn't here the last time. Yeah, we didn't have this on the last time. Me and Tupac.

I hadn't cleared it yet. You guys are back together. It does give me, it does create this energy. At least at first anyway. It does. I have a new energy. It does. I feel like he'd be happy about it. Maybe. For a lot of different reasons. At least at first anyway. I have a new energy. It does.

I feel like he'd be happy about it. Maybe. For a lot of different reasons. For any number of reasons. Tupac would like to be the theme song for your show. Of course he would be. He would have enjoyed the symbolism behind it. Yes.

So that's Wesley Morris, now of the New York Times, formerly of Grantland. And you have not been on, I think you were like the third, fourth, fifth, sixth pod, whatever. Somewhere in the early stages of the BS pod. We were sitting in different spots. We were. Things are all changed up. This is now my spot. I got a good view of tape though, I like that.

Yeah, last year at this time we were taping like a three hour recording session for our Oscars TV special yeah we had all these fun categories it was a more fun oscars oh yeah last year was way more fun than this year's less fun but um we're taping this on a monday yeah the only reason we're taping this early is because you're just passing through town you're leaving tomorrow so we had to grab you while you're in and out yeah so uh right before we're taping this, noticed online there's going to be a little boycott. It looks like for the Oscars.

This just in. Spike Lee, Jada Pinkett, no longer going. So far. I mean. That feels like a snowball rolling down the hill. Director and star of Bamboozled, out. Right. Well, wife of Will Smith

And wife of non-nominated Will Smith Who probably thought he was going to be nominated And you know frankly if we're being totally honest On this she should have been Among the nominated She should have been part of that nominee conversation Magic Mike She's so good

Move back like six inches so you don't blow out That's better our microphones are very sensitive. Oh, okay. So I noticed this when it came out. Yeah. All white people nominated, really. Everybody noticed it. All white people.

It was hard not to notice it. You live in Los Angeles. You had the 25 mug shots. Like totally one giant mugshot. Yeah, I didn't even see that until the next day. It was amazing. I'm naive with race for the most part because I've always grown up like, you know, I've liked everything. My favorite basketball players are black.

Most of my favorite shows are black people. So it's rare for me to see something that jumps out that blatantly where I'm like, wait, this is weird. Like, where's Michael B. Jordan? Right. where's michael b jordan right where's edis alba where like where where's everybody i mean look okay so we have to we have to back up for one second because please do i mean we have to tell the story about what is actually going on here so 2015 was by many accounts a really good year for movies up to a certain point. Right. And among what was really good about 2015 were things like Street Outta Compton. According to some people, I'm not crazy about that movie, but we're setting that aside.

It's memorable. It's 25 minutes too long, but it's memorable. It made a lot of money. Yeah. It turned but it's memorable. It made a lot of money. Yeah. It turned a lot, and its success turned a lot of heads. You had the sort of ongoing, unkillable career of Kevin Hart. You had Creed, which came at the end of the year, a sort of rejuvenation of the Rocky franchise.

And the first good director since Rocky I for a Rocky movie. That also really helped. It's not a coincidence Sly Stallone got nominated. I would also say that Ryan Coogler at this point is a better director than John G. Avelson or whatever. I would agree. Just throwing that out there. Some great Karate Kid scenes though by Avelson.

You got to hand it to him. So you have, what I would say is a fairly, in the summer you had a movie called Dope that made a pretty good amount of money. You didn't have quite the range of, I think the thing that was sort of disappointing to me was you didn't have a range of people in black people in movies. Like you had a, it was limited to a specific region, a specific kind of movie mostly black men and black women serving a purpose in black movies that they served

in like 1991 or 92 like well no Denzel movie this year right did he have no no there was no Denzel Washington movie

with the bad the bad accent you had a very bad Will Smith movie I do not understand your concussions he sounded a little bit like Daniel Day-Lewis

he wasn't from india or like gaza or wherever this access for ireland zimbabwe combo like if somebody from zimbabwe and ireland had a kid i don't even know who that person is yeah i don't understand like zimbabwe and ireland i am more worried about the concussions than you you're right that it doesn't sound like will smith i'm sorry i can't do accents neither i mean neither can he neither can he um but he is really good in the movie nonetheless the movie is just unspeakably bad i think this is the thing that you run up against with 2015 the reason this is so bad for the for hollywood first in the academy second and but most immediately obviously the academy is while you did have straight the Academy is, while you did have Straight Outta Compton

and you did have Dope and you did have Concussion and you did have Creed, none of those movies is immediately, according to at least the studios that released them, Oscar movies. So despite the fact that Straight Outta Compton came out at the height of summer, I think the beginning of August or the end of July,

made a lot of money, it seemed like Universal was kind of caught off guard about whether to put this movie in front of Oscar voters for consideration. Now, unfortunately, that's how this process works. You can't organically become part of the Oscar conversation in most cases. You have to have a studio sort of push you in front of Oscar voters. I see what you're doing here. You're flipping this around. People blame the Academy.

You're saying the whole studio system is the reason this happened. Oh my God, yeah. I mean, you can't, what, the number of movies they had to choose from was pretty small in terms of people of color. And if you really are looking

at this honestly what really are the odds for sure anna compton as a best picture nominee according to the way the math works on best picture it's it it's hilariously almost impossible for that to be part of that conversation creed's a better creed is a much better and a much more legitimate conventional shot but i don't think the studio knew what they had in creed until people until the reviews came in and the way that the oscar campaigning process works now if you think about it a second though they knew what they had i don't think they knew that it was going to be as critically acclaimed as it was i think they knew it was going to be a big movie they knew they had a movie that would make back the 35 million dollars it cost to to get it made yes i think they knew they had a probable hit on their hands

but i don't think that they this is this is this for me is where the racism starts to come in i mean i don't i think there's racism in the academy to some extent but i think there's a kind of institutional racism when it comes to what people in this town think a quote oscar movie unquote is it's brooklyn but that no but they just think like oh brooklyn the movie yeah yeah they think oh sure like like the story that makes. Also, the people who made Brooklyn understood, they understood that that's a movie that would appeal to Academy voters, which as of right now is still largely male, like predominantly male, predominantly white, and predominantly older. So I think the average age, and I'm probably going to be wrong about this, but I want to

say it's like late 50s, early 60s. up with my example it's actually bridge of spies is the perfect kind of movie that the academy is like oh spielberg yes and hanks yes we oh the the the the unfortunate part of your very apt example because i i agree with you in terms of that being a class of movie is that bridge despise is actually really good but so is creed yes but the thing about creed is the studio didn't think of it as a quote oscar movie but whereas bridge despise despise is no brainer two years ago they thought it was an institution the way the institution works is think about this they don't have to position bridge of spies as an academy movie because it's got academy pedigree in it do you see what i'm saying it's a steven spielberg movie set in the past specifically during world war ii with tom

hanks you don't really have to mount an an unusual campaign or go out of your way to make a movie like that appealing to oscar voters so how does trumbo how does cranston get nominated i mean even like we talked about it but not for a podcast i would say how does cranston get even cranston shocked he got nominated i would say that cranston is somebody that people in this i mean breaking, he is good for life. So you think the Academy is like, oh, I love Breaking Bad. Check. Absolutely. I mean, I don't want to be that cynical about it.

I'm willing to be cynical about pretty much every other aspect of this process. I think Cranston just has a lot of goodwill toward him. And I don't think that's going to go anywhere anytime soon. I think Trumbo is an utterly disposable movie and a complete missed opportunity to tell the Dalton Trumbo story, especially in that Hollywood context. Right. And he's fine in the movie. He's fine. I mean, I could think of five other people who I would, filling out my ballot, I would have put.

Tom Hardy played twins. They were totally different. He's not nominated. Tom Hardy. In everybody's defense. because that movie is also not very good but you know he's twins i was surprised that he actually oh wait so we because i want to talk about yeah i'm sorry but but let's just let's just let's just like get this race thing on the table all the way. Um, so Bridgespies is just a much more obvious Oscar candidate, right? So you don't have to, I mean, psychologically or psychically, I think people just assume that they should be thinking about Bridgespies at the end of the year when it comes

time to, cause I mean, if the movie works, right. And the movie in this case, I would say it works i think other people agree that it works um i also think that one of the things that hurts creed is just like the academy is used to thinking about black people a certain way and i think hollywood is used to thinking about black people a certain way okay if if creed were about like a runaway slave who gets the box. Do you know what I mean? That was the original script. It was Creed's grandfather. I mean, let's think about this. If Creed were like a butler's son who gets the box.

A butler's son. Do you know what I mean? In the 1900s. If there was just no real conventional way for the way the way the academy thinks but wait a second go back to your butler's son i like that so it's like 1890 oprah's there is the older maid who's who's the really mean patriarch if we're going all the way back there this now becomes loaded because what would they have been doing they would have been mandingo fighters like they wouldn't have been oh they would probably wouldn't have been in a boxing ring they would have been doing. They would have been Mandingo fighters. They wouldn't have been, they probably wouldn't have been

in a boxing ring. They would have been in, within the, I mean, there's probably a version of this boxing story you can tell and a boxing historian can probably put this

in proper historical perspective. But in terms of the way black men and violence in public space worked, I mean, they'd kind of be Mandingo fighters. I have good news. The Academy just nominated

this fake movie for an Oscar. It got added to the category. Jada and Spike, you can come to the show now. They've heard all they needed to hear. Stop. Will Smith's in it. He doesn't even know yet. He's been cast.

Oh, we're great. I mean, what is he doing? No, you're right, though. But here's what I don't get. This was kind of the year Empire starts this whole thing. And Shonda Rhimes, all these shows. And everybody kind of belatedly Empire starts this whole thing and Shonda Rhimes all these shows and everybody kind of belatedly realizes oh wow the black audiences are totally

underserved and we can make a lot of money with this and this is great and there are all these great actors and let's do this everybody and then Oscar shut out nine months later bizarre yeah no I mean I just don't think that between the priorities of the movie industry and if there's another thing that we've talked about this before, but global the global audience is something that's really on the minds of a lot of studios.

And now it's entirely possible for them to to to clear whatever their whatever their bottom line is in terms of global audience and global reach it's possible for them to meet those and still make a creed right like it's not as though you have to completely underserve the black audience or like any audiences of color um or women for that matter by making movies these sort of gargantuan entertainments that happen to feature a bunch of white people because the assumption is that Chinese people only want to watch Chris Pratt. I don't believe that. And I don't think that that sort of catering necessarily needs to happen. Chinese people love Kobe more than any Chinese person.

Right. Other than maybe Yi Xinlan. I would say that the same is probably true for Will Smith. Yeah. line i would say that the same is probably true for will smith yeah and i think the more famous kevin hart gets and the the dumber some of his movies are sort of willing to be i think his physical comedy plays well anywhere i don't i don't think that i think that's an excuse to not diversify the movies i don't think that that's a that's a legitimate argument did spike lee let us down by not making a better movie or did you like that movie i think shirak is almost good i think the thing for me well the spike lee story no no no i look i am a i mean yes that is a sort of public

story about the last 15 years but i think there's a lot of there's some really good filmmaking in this film i my problem with it is that it misdiagnoses and then it misdiagnoses a problem and then proceeds to use that misdiagnosis to treat it so it and uses it to try to to get it some sort of out to allegorize chicago's gun violence situation yeah the problem with it for me is that i don't think the solution to this problem is like locking up all of all of the vaginas in chicago i don't really think that that that is quite i mean even as a even as a as an allegory that doesn't work for me um i think that there are any number of of ways he could have gone about doing this i do really like the imagination and the sort of vision behind approaching this problem at all but the problem the the additional problem for me is

even in in attempting to do that i don't think the movie itself is is that interesting this guy needs to make a full-on musical at this point he has flirted with it so many times he's had so many musical moments in movies in school days and malcolm x and and and there is a kind of music and in son of sam, Summer of Sam, there's so many musical moments in his movies, and he's made a lot of music videos. I just feel like he should just make a musical. I also think that one of the problems with Chirac is

it was a hard sell for audiences just because a lot of it is in verse. And it moves in and out of the decision to remain in verse. But I think that some of the performances are really good. Well, wait a second. That was Spike? Yeah. The movie sounded promising.

Ultimately, I couldn't get fired up to watch it because I've just been let down too many times by a Spike Lee movie. That's fair. Over the last 15 years. That's fair. I don't want to spend the two hours. I'd rather watch some of these other ones. I will say he remains utterly uncompromised in terms of what he wants to do as a filmmaker. I mean, he could.

I mean, he might. He might beg to differ with this. I think if he wanted to, I don't think the studio, I don't know what the studios think of him at this point. I think that they probably think he's a loose cannon and are nervous to spend a great deal amount of time with him because he is so independent minded and is so, his bullshit detector is so strong and he's outspoken and he's got a weird artistic view of any sort of conventional situation.

He's not going to see the world the way you see it. I get it. And I think the presentation of that sort of side long view, if you're a studio executive, it's side long, I'm saying. It's just going to sort of side long view if you're a studio executive it's side long i'm saying um it's just gonna sort of cause you some problems i think that he's made some mistakes recently i think that making remaking old boy was was just not something he needed to do and especially the the remake that he gave us did you see that by the way no there's a really good secret a couple really good physical sequences, but to watch the movie is to just see this misshapen movie

that it seems like was taken away from him and then re-edited to seem commercial. I'm done with... First of all, you know how I always say we need a sports czar? We need a Hollywood czar. To do what? I don't disagree with you. First of all, thewood czar would tell

spike hey spike just you know you do do what you want do but every like six years just make an entertaining movie just do like do the equalizer with denzel just do it for four months bang it out right put some spike lee things in it and get out and then go do a couple years like i you're a good filmmaker just do a couple that are just your only goal is just to be entertaining i i think that's i think that i i am i fully support that i think it's hard for me to sort of say spike this is what you should do i feel like one of the no no but one of the things that i think is really interesting is inside man which i think the universe agrees is a really good movie. 25th Hour.

You know, I love that. That's my favorite Spike movie. 25th Hour. I mean, that sort of goes in the class of movie I'm going to present. The class of Spike Lee movie I'm going to present, which is a movie that he didn't write. Right. That he could sort of push up against in terms of whether or not he agreed with the entire script that he's working with yeah there's some tension between him and the material and then by extension the actors and he has a clear vision for what he of what he wants to say i also think that the thing about

shirak that that that was curious to me is i don't think that if if some other director had gone to Brooklyn and made a similar movie about police brutality, I don't think he would have stood for it. I think he was in Chicago. I think he was out of his element. I don't think he knows that city the way he obviously doesn't know that city the way he knows Brooklyn. I think there was a real sort of class disconnect between himself and the South side of Chicago. I think that it was a very sort of privileged view of that problem. And I don't use that word loosely or lightly. This is a rich, middle-aged man who has a particular artistic point of view that does not entirely fit with the problem he's trying to address. So the movie I would love to see him make is the What the Hell is Happening in Brooklyn, this place that I loved movie. All these hipsters have come in and ruined my city.

Well, you saw Jimmy's. He's dying to make that movie. He just won't. You saw Jimmy's Do the White Thing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I felt like, I mean, he is so outspoken about what's happened in Brooklyn that I would love to see that.

Put it in a script, Spike. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that he is working on, I mean, he might be working on something. I'm not sure about anything with him. But it was great to see him get that honorary oscar it was great to hear him give that speech and to sort of like lay out this exact problem that we're trying to talk about now um with hollywood and non-white people and women and people and and and you know non-straight people um wait so michael b jordan said on my podcast because we talked about yeah roles for actors and i was like who's on your second time

he came back yeah that when he came on on this show yeah it's like so like who's on your corner you know like the way hollywood works now oh yeah it's a black actor part and he was saying like oh yeah it could be everyone from age 20 to age 55. Right. And he was saying how the thing that bothers him, one, they're not writing enough good parts for black actors and actors. And then two,

that he's not considered for some parts where they just go, Oh yeah, that should be a white person where it's like, well, well, why? There's a lot of movies that it doesn't really matter what the color of the person is. That seemed like that bothered him more than anything.

That he just felt like certain roles, he didn't even have a chance and he wasn't positive why. Well, I mean, the answer is, I mean, I mean, we know the answer is obvious. The answer is obvious. But I think you're bringing up TV is really important. I think that the thing, the change in television in three years. Think about how we could never have had the, oh my God, TV looks more like the world now than it did two years ago.

There's so much stuff happening on tv there are so many different people on tv right now it is so exciting and a lot of these shows are if they're not great they're really entertaining yeah and there are black women running these shows there are gay people running these shows there are the the jill soloway universe running running transparent which is like the transparent is is just an artistic miracle i've never seen anything like this show before in my life i thought that i hadn't seen anything like this with orange is the new black but transparent is a different thing it's a it's a familiar energy it's a similar energy but as an achievement this is like

i've never seen any i mean outside of maybe european filmmaking like that goes on for a long time this is this is a completely different thing for american televised entertainment nothing is nothing close to this well maybe that's where we're going maybe but i i think that by comparison i think this is like the michael b michael b jordan's problem is that he's probably Well, maybe that's where we're going. That shouldn't matter. But ultimately, it kind of does. You are having one set of experiences limit or dictate the purview and range of a whole other set of experiences. Once you get more people like more producers of color, more women making movies, I mean, you know, the statistics sort of bear out what happens when, like, for instance, a woman gets a job directing a show. Most of the cast and crew wind up or more of the cast and crew wind up being women, for instance, if a woman is directing it. I mean, now you're in Project Greenlight, Effie conversation territory. Well, but it's true.

I don't want to do this. I don't know. I can't do it again. Like, I mean, i love him so much and i'm tired of talking about this and i feel bad and everything else but it's all true and i think that the thing about tv is you just have more different people doing more different things and i also think that tv the the the the the level of risk is the barrier to failure with, by,

by applying risk or taking a risk. It's just, it's just lower. Well, there's two things going on. There's so many shows now. There's also a show for a specific niche. Right.

Right. Right. And know that it's not going to blow up. You've got an infinite, you've been seemingly an amount of space. You also have people now that are just like, here's money. Do whatever you want. We'll stay out of the way.

Yeah. Which is rare. I mean, yeah. I don't know how long that's going to last. But right now, that's what Netflix is doing right now. Right. They just give people money. Do your thing.

Amazon, same thing. Here's money. Yeah. In Hollywood, the movies anyway are constricting. Yeah. And so they're making fewer movies. But you've got a guy like Will Packer,er for instance who has produced a lot of the kevin hart movies a bunch of other sort of black cast and mostly black directed films that have done pretty well at the box office i think this guy if he wanted to

could because what we're missing the thing that the reason we're in this position is not just there's a there's a lack of just to stick with with black people and black entertainment. There's but I mean, this is applicable to all the races. It's not just that there is a lack of black movies eligible for Oscars. It's that when when you can get a black movie made it's sort of limited to a particular type of film and the miracle with straight out of compton and the miracle of creed is that both movies in the eyes of some people i mean i think creed is a really really good movie i think straight out of compton is fine but the people who love straight out of compton love it whatever

part of the artist straight out of compton was it should have been a disaster and somehow great and relaxed so much and they had to cast those three guys correctly, which they did. The casting of that movie alone gets an Oscar. But, you know, it's funny because the four screenwriters, the four white, Dre and Cube approved screenwriters are Oscar nominees. Yeah. And I do think that the strong point of that movie weirdly is its script uh and aside from the actors structure who play who play ice cube and easy e those guys are incredible and paul giamatti is really good in that it's really good it's the structure is great

it's like these guys the police push these guys over the limit and made their careers and here we go and they get you by the 45 minute mark yeah fuck the police fuck those guys just get you totally into it by the 45 minute mark that was when i'm out like it starts to become really conventional yeah probably at around the time ice cube leaves the detroit scene is great right and that's that's that's i thought that's the peak of that movie that's the peak of that that's actually one of my favorite scenes of the whole year just really i was ready for it i knew it was coming and then it was great and they understand That's I thought that's the peak of that movie. That's the peak of that movie. That's actually one of my favorite scenes of the whole year. Really, I was ready for it. I knew it was coming.

And then it was great. And they understand what's going on in that scene. There's a real and I feel like they just drop the ball is probably not the right word. I mean, they just the movie wound up going in a different, more conventional direction. Right. Really good first 40 minutes. It could have been. It could have been great. I think that for 45 minutes is very, very good.

And then it's just perfectly mediocre after that. So are you sufficiently satisfied with my laying out of what is actually going on here? Yeah, we have everything except for one thing. Yeah. Does a boycott change anything? Let's say 25 of the biggest African American, black, biracial, everybody, they just sit out.

They're just out. Why would you ruin biracial? I was just throwing it at everybody. Dwayne Johnson, you're staying home. You hear that? Dwayne Johnson's home. Yeah. I mean, Vin Diesel wouldn't go anyway.

But I mean, I'm sure that'm sure that Vin Diesel biracial? Come on are we going to have this conversation? I don't know He probably doesn't want us to have this conversation He is one race He is human That's what I figured I thought he might be an alien

Okay so there's I also want to just finish my point about Will Packer Will Packer now has all this clout he can he can or i i don't know what will packer would say his cloud is i i think he's got clout i think will packer could get made some movie that some august wilson play some lynn notage play some some original screenplay something that is that would speak to academy voters with in a in a in a way that doesn't feel compromised by letting white people sort of free black people or help black people read you know like any of the sort of conventional things that happen in these movies that wind up nominated for oscars um i think will packer is a person is one of their producers who has the clout to do

that avra duvernay obviously is i think what happened last year with selma sort of gave her it gave her purpose it renewed her purpose her political purpose i mean i think her artistic purpose won't would never change but i do think that kind of awakened something in her. I don't think she was complacent about that movie's prospects with the Academy. But I think the way that whole thing shook out. Because I also think that that film was hurt by the sort of racism of promotion. Rather than necessarily Academy racism. But I think that there are more people in a position to do good things in movies

and look in 10 years, I think we're going to, we, this won't, we'll be talking about how in 2015 there was that time that there were no black acting nominees, you know, and you didn't tell me whether the boycott is going to help or not. Oh, right. Okay. So I think the boycott will definitely be embarrassing for the Academy. And great for Chris Rock's monologue. And if Chris Rock's the only black person in the room, do you know what I mean?

Like, he won't be the only black person involved because Reginald Hudlin is still producing. And Chris Rock is still the host. I have two key points for you. Yes. One, what if Chris rock bows out right now great career well look this great career anything can happen at this point right i mean it wasn't it's not as though spike lee and jada pinkett smith both of whom i i adore and respect very much um it's not that big a deal if they're not going since a you know spike lee would have i think just have stood up

and said hey everybody i got this i already got this honorary oscar um he'd be going as somebody who had already received his prize and jada pinkett smith would probably have been going as a presenter um unclear but you know reginald hudlin is in a bit of a bind because i think one of the things if this if the boycotts continue i think he's he's in a bind because he is a producer of this show has the you know he knows every he can call everybody up and just be like hey will you come present but if there is this there's going to be this interesting tension now what if they what if every presenter was black i mean last year that'd be pretty that would be a pretty good counter response to this. I mean, but what...

After the 15th category, it's like, here they are, Alfonso Ribeiro. Okay, you don't have to... How do I put this? You wouldn't even have to get to Alfonso, is how good things are. Do you know what I mean? That's the thing. You watch the Emmys. No, it's and you see the great thing about the emmys last year was that was the moment regina king won for you love regina i love regina yeah everybody loves regina me too there was a great

moment where she won the supporting actress emmy for limited limited series mini series that sort of thing and she was up against angela bassett kathy bates um monique yeah uh and sarah paulson i think were the five nominees there might be somebody there might have been six i don't remember who the sixth person was but anyway she wins the emmy she beats angela bassett yeah and monique for an Emmy, accepts the award from Terrence Howard and Taraji P. Henson. There was no, and think about this, five years before that, Regina King had written a note on the Huffington Post saying, you know, the Emmys are so white. Like, what's up with the Emmys? Like, why aren't there any black nominees?

And why are there frequently no black nominees? And I think that what's happened in TV is not this sort of direct PR push. There's been a real infrastructural opening up of opportunities for all kinds of people. And the thing about the Academy Awards is you can make all the presenters black, but then in 2016 or this year, in 2017 for the movie release year of 2016, what do you have? I mean, what is coming out in 2016 that can be nominated for Oscars in 2017? Here's what's going to solve the problem. Hamilton the musical as a movie. When it wins like 17 Oscars. Yeah, but- as a movie when it was like 17 oscars yeah but that'll

be when it lays this that's like 2019 2019 how when did they really have to wait four years for i don't know i mean you need to talk to lynn manuel by the way you should have lynn manuel miranda on your show he's just i haven't seen it i sent my wife and my daughter and it was like the greatest night of their life i think i think I think. Everyone who goes, it's the greatest night of their life. It's, it's a pretty great night at the theater, I gotta say. And I, I mean, I can't imagine what the energy is like in the theater now. I saw it almost six months ago. Yeah.

I can't imagine what the energy is like in that, in that theater now. No signs of abating. Mm-mm. We, you know. And it's really good. One thing that, one movie that didn't get nominated, I was surprised by was Jobs. Because Jobs fits that. I didn't really like Jobs.

Neither did I. Jobs fits that whole Oscar stereotype for what gets nominated. Like if Bridge of Spies, Bridge of Spies is a better movie. But if that's going to make it, I thought Jobs just on Pedigree and Fassbender. Well, Fassbender is a nominee. Kate Winslet is a nominee. So how is Jobs not a nominee? I don't remember now.

Was Sorkin one of the... Did the screenplay get nominated? I think it did. I just don't think it's a particularly remarkable movie. I mean, it's utterly conventional, I think. And I have... Did you think Bridge of Spies was a remarkable movie? I thought it was a remarkable entertainment...

Look, Steven Spielberg, even when he's... spies was a remarkable movie uh i thought it was a remarkable entertainment look steven spielberg even when he's when he's this isn't even a phoned in i think the thing about spielberg is you expect him to phone it in and he's not like there are some great shots in bridge of spies i think it really hangs together it's fun um it as much as something like that can be fun. And, you know, Tom Hanks, I think we take for granted now. I think he could never be nominated again. I mean, like, I just think that he is like oxygen or something. He's the opposite of Meryl Streep or when Meryl Streep fart, she gets nominated. Although she didn't this year.

Hanks is like, she did fart, though. She actually, she didn't get nominated for farting. Hanks is like Tom Brady. He's just, you know, he's just you know he's gonna throw for 4,000 yards have his 30 TDs right but he'll get up he'll get a Super Bowl to play in or at least an AFC championship game to play in and almost every year Hanks is kind of like beholden to the memory of his peers and I think that everybody sort of takes his excellence for granted I mean Mark Rylance is the guy not unjustifiably getting all the attention in the acting department for that.

Right. Mark Rylance will probably win the Oscar, too, I think, for that movie. Before we keep going, shout out to our friends at Simply Safe. I have a little tip that will save you a huge headache later. Do you want to hear it? By all means, lay it on me. Any home security that says it's free usually means it has a contract attached to it. It's a little smoke and mirrors.

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24-7 protection, easy to set up, everything you'd ever want fantastic it's the only security i trust and if you visit simply safe bill.com you get 10 off simply safe bill.com jody foster remember panic room oh yeah she had all that she had cameras yeah she had the she had the thing people still got in if she had simply had SimpliSafe, Jared Leto never gets in. Nope, nope, nope. I kind of like that movie now. Now? It's like a rewatchable cable movie that I never expected would be rewatchable.

But I do like when people are trapped in a place and people are trying to get in. It's got some elements I like. And Jodi's good in it. They're both. Kristen Stewart is good. Kristen Stewart, I feel like they're related. Yes, yes. It's one some elements I like and Jodie's good in it. They're both. Kristen Stewart is good. Kristen Stewart. I feel like they're related. Yes.

Yes. It's one of those. I could totally see them being the mom daughter. There was a moment where Kristen Stewart and Jodie Foster were basically the same person. They might be. She might have cloned herself. Not anymore though. There's no demonstrable way you can. There was also a really good era from like 97 to 2002 when women that...

Attractive actresses, but maybe weren't as quote-unquote sexy as like, say, Jolie in her peak. And the solution was just to put them in t-shirts with very flimsy bra. Oh, the tank tops. The Helen Hunt, Jodie Foster. It was just less clothes. Maybe that'll do it.

And it actually led to... Jodie Foster's cute in that movie. I think that Linda Hamilton... Linda Hamilton started it. You're right. I think Demi Moore and Linda Hamilton. I think G.I. Jane was... I'm going to get the date wrong for G.I. Jane.

I think it's 96 or 97. Lori Petty. Lori Petty. Terminator 2 started it. They're like, look at her biceps. Although Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman also walked around in a tank top. lori i mean they're two started it they're like look at her biceps although julia roberts and pretty woman also walked around in a tank top like i mean i think she walked the streets of los angeles in a tank top let's talk about oscars yes please so we have eight films and it's a weird

year which has happened before where i'm not positive there's a standout yet. But the advertising and all the PR stuff hasn't really started yet. At gunpoint, if I had to pick one right now, plus 1,500, I think, are the odds. I think I would pick the Martian. To win? Yeah, I think it's like the safest pick. I know. Is that crazy?

How on? I mean, I guess the mask worked that way. Scott got snubbed. Matt Damon. Everybody liked it. Oh, are you smelling an Argo situation? Yeah. I think all these other ones are going to carve out their little niche things.

And I think most people are just going to look at it and go, hey, I really like the Martian and just check it. Wow. I think it's a good sleeper. I don't know if it'll win, but I think it's a good sleeper pick. That's a good story that you're telling though though, about the rallying behind and around. Ridley Scott, I feel bad he wasn't nominated. Revenant will get picked apart.

That's not going to win. Big Short will get picked apart. That's not going to win. Spotlight. Spotlight. I think the nitpick on that one will be like... It's been thoroughly vetted, though, at this point. I mean, I feel like...

But was it special? Is it a special movie? I think its specificity kind of works against it in some ways. I think it's I mean, it's localness. Basically, it's it's it's narrative localness. Obviously, that story is an international story. Wouldn't you say that the best parallel for for Spotlight would be Argo, an ensemble movie. Well done.

Not 100% special. Really well done. And yet, now it has the Oscar. And when it's on cable, and it's very well done. I like it. It's good.

When I see it on cable, I'm always a little half surprised that it actually won the Oscar. But you know what's funny about Argo? And this won't happen with Spotlight because it just wasn't a hit the way Argo was a hit. Yeah. And probably at this point won't be. Argo comes up a lot as a pop culture reference still.

Like, you know, that Iranian deal went through the other day and they released those prisoners and there was a big story in the in the papers about how there was some last minute drama on the tarmac about whether jason um resigned was going to get on the plane with his wife and his mother whether the iranians were going to let him go and apparently john kerry had to like make a phone call to sort of say look you guys you promised that Jason can get on the plane you gotta let him on the plane now the State Department person who was

aware of whatever was going on with this was like it's kind of like out of Argo yeah I mean I feel like Argo Argo just comes up a lot as a in a lot of different ways too as a easy pop culture reference point for not just things that happen in iran but for other stuff too um i don't spotlight

is that's never going to happen with spotlight to its credit so are you in the camp of no actually i liked how understated the direction was and he kept it simple and he didn't try to go over the top of anything or you like me where you're like i really like that movie it was excellent um it's the best tv movie i've ever seen it easily could have run on hbo and i i wouldn't have felt like wow this movie's too fancy for hbo this is too of an amazing movie it's too well done for hbo it'd be like, this is a really great HBO movie. Okay, I get what you're saying. You know what I mean? Was it this

a giant cinema movie or was it a movie that just could have premiered at Saturday 8pm on HBO? I think that that argument should be aimed to other Best Picture nominees. Room and Brooklyn. Well, Room's another one. Room's the best Lifetime movie ever made. Room and Brooklyn are two movies that...

Coming up on the Lifetime channel, she's been in the same room for seven years with her captor. But no, that's not even the movie, actually. No, that's not even the movie. Her captor trapped her. That actually is a better movie. That actually is a movie that does not insult my intelligence

as a human being with feelings. I just like Brie Larson. I'm in on Brie Larson. She's great in it. Be in on Brie Larson. She's great in it. Be in on Brie Larson. She's awesome in it. She's going to win Best Actress. Be all in on her.

Great performance. But think about how much, I mean, this is, I want to sort of lay on the table for one second, that I think the problem with this movie is that it is sexual torture and capture for dummies.

I think that... I'm a dummy, so that worked for me. No shots to you, but I do think that it takes the safest possible way to tell this story. From the point of view... It's told from the kid's perspective, though. I just... That just is nauseating to me. I don't know why it bothers me so much, but I think it's the cheapest possible ploy in telling this story

so brie larson you if you saw 90 seconds of the cap they're just having his way with brie larson and she's crying then then you're okay you're trying to trap me i'm not trapping you i'm not going in that trying to trap you i will just say that is that what you needed if you're going to make a movie about a woman basically capped as a sex as as in sexual slavery for seven years yes don't tell it from the point of view of her of her of her rapist child yeah i don't know i mean if you tell it from any other point of view that's one of the most grisly movies I'm ever going to see in my life. So basically, this reminds me of my problem with 127 Hours. I also have problems with 127 Hours.

The honest version of that movie doesn't have any of the gravy and whipped cream and cherries and jimmies and sprinkles that Danny Boyyle's excellent filmmaking gives you right i didn't mind watching that movie and i should have i should have hated every second of that movie is a guy trapped in a crevice with his hand caught between a boulder and the wall yeah 427 hours yeah it was 27 hours. Yeah. It was disarming. So your favorite movie was? Of those eight movies? Wait, we didn't unpack The Revenant yet, though. What's the argument against The Revenant? I think people... It's a little like The New England Patriots for me.

This is good. I like where this is going. You like where This is good. I like where this is going. You like where this is going. I like where this is going. The expectations are so high that if it doesn't get there, you're just nitpicking. You're talking purely in terms of the Oscars or the quality of the movie. Ina Ratu, Leo. Right, right, right.

Outdoors took a ton to film. Tom Hardy, all these people. This should be the bet. And it's basically Jeremiaheremiah johnson 40 years later and he threw in a couple scenes where there's crows and indians and all the stereotypical shit you shouldn't do when you're making a movie he did it anyway people are disappointed in it they feel like it's cliched why does he have to climb in the horse all this stuff and the reality is i saw it in the theater i i concentrated and was affected the whole time it had some really memorable moments and scenes yes all the actors were excellent it's really well filmed the lighting

was unlike anything i've ever seen and i liked it i'm not gonna apologize i don't thought it was cool i thought it was a memorable movie i don't think there's anything to apologize for i think that i i love the patriots analogy because it also brings it also that that also is at this point incorporating in yari too who is i hate how you can pronounce it so much better than i can sorry uh i've been stuck with this guy for longer than birdman and and the revenant is the problem yeah and so really is the academy though right i mean this is his third best director nomination uh i feel like directors think this guy is just amazing that's the thing that has to count though is that the other directors are like wow i'm jealous of that scene that's amazing okay so let me ask you some

questions about bill belichick yeah so bill belichick is no other coaches like him no other there's like wow i'm jealous of that scene that's amazing okay so let me ask you some questions about bill belichick yeah so bill belichick is no other coaches like him no other coaches like him no other coaches like him no other coaches like there are you're not saying there's nobody who compares to him you're saying people don't like this yeah they just he treats everybody you know he has no time for anybody he's so i think that there is a brady belichick analogy between dicaprio i like it and and and in yeti too like i think that and inaratu inaratu is the guy who makes the movies that that yeah somebody else likes yeah um i think that there is this it's it's both in the culture of this town of Los Angeles and by extension the academy. But I also think nationally now, the more exposure people get to Inyati 2 and DiCaprio has been with us for a long time.

I think that the combination of these two guys can maybe start to seem insufferable if they if this keeps going for six more weeks leo's just leo's very much like brady even to the point that they've shared the same woman right right i mean it's but it's just he makes the right choices he really only cares about acting and staying up till 5 30 in the morning looking for supermodels he's shown no i guess he he's had a couple of causes right he's gotten attached he gave us a new cause at the golden globes last week which was the new one native americans yeah and i think that's the cause that's a legit that's a legitimate thing to bring up i think it pivots the movie from being a movie about the difficult arduous circumstances under which it was made

to a movie that that that's about and speaking to like so-called first nations people american indians um and it also deflects people away from the fact that they basically just remade jeremiah johnson for anybody who remembers jim or jeremiah my dad's favorite movie ever a lot of people's favorite movie my dad's favorite movie of all time. I think. And I will say. Some say he's up there still. Oh, my God. Well, we should have your dad on a talk about Jeremiah Johnson. He loved Jeremiah Johnson. And guess what?

He loved The Revenant. Did he? I mean. Yeah. And I think that there is a sort of lure. And this brings us back in a weird way to the Oscars and the whiteness issue. Right. The thing that I found somewhat revolutionary about the Revenant for its first 45 minutes was that it seemed to be not simply aware of the narrative imbalance with regard to white people and,

and American Indians. It was trying to address that imbalance narratively. And I, there's a moment when the indian chief and i'm not going to spoil anything in the movie for anyone so don't don't worry but there's a moment early on where the pawnee indian chief is sort of there's a shot of him wandering through a burning camp after there's been a slaughter and he mentions that he's looking for his daughter he goes from one side of the frame more or less diagonally to the other side of the frame from the top across to the bottom i think this is my memory of that that shot and it blew my mind it blew my mind because i don't recall a movie

giving that kind of emotional credence to a person who under ordinary circumstances would only be a villain yeah his villainy i mean villain they're all villains under these circumstances it's the wild effing west so to speak it's it's a free-for-all and there is no there are no pure bad people everybody's everybody sucks and i thought that inyaritu and his three screenwriters were trying to rebalance what i felt was sort of was a you know obviously long-standing hollywood imbalance in westerns um as it turns out tarantino did a much more daring job of trying to rebalance the racial situation. Not nominated. Not nominated, pretty much for anything. No. And The Revenant, sort of after its first hour,

ultimately turns into a survival chase picture with Leonardo DiCaprio. All right, so here's the best way that I think we should think about the Oscars. Okay. Is five, six, seven, eight years from now, just what's going to stand out? What are we going to remember? Yes.

Don't react to just what, but just think like, all right, long-term, we're stuck with these picks now. We're stuck with the nominations and we're stuck with the winners forever. And we, do we want to end up in a situation like with crash which is now actually probably a little bit of an underrated movie because no people are so mad it's not as no way people react now like it's karate kid three like it's not it's not that bad it's karate kids four it's it's got some decent acting performances it's not it's not a catastrophe i all like i'm no there's nobody bigger a bigger there's nobody who's a bigger fan of going back and being honest about the truth than i am when it comes to art

that movie is bad every year okay it's not as bad as people when's the last time you saw it i should see it again you should see i remember i remember liking sandra bullock entering her milf stage i was i enjoyed that there's. Matt Dillon, best performance he's ever had. Little Terrence Howard action. I'd forgotten that I liked Terrence Howard. It's so shameful. It's just a movie that is written by a person who didn't know any of the people in the movie. So here's 2009, a year that we both liked.

That's a great Oscar year. It wasn't a great movie year, but the Oscars make it look like a really great movie. Hurt Locker wins. Avatar, Blindside, District 9, and Education. Inglourious Bastards, Precious, Serious Man, Up in the Air are all of our nominees.

Jeff Bridges won for Crazy Heart. Yes. Yeah. Some of these I can support. Sandra Bullock won for blindside colored her hair a little bubble butt action the five nominees it was merle streep and julian julia gabby sidibe carrie mulligan helen maron yeah i mean gabby sidibe so monique wins monique wins and christopher waltz wins for Inglourious Bastards.

All right. So now it's been five, six years. Yes. What do you remember from that year? The Hurt Locker. I enjoyed it. Hasn't maybe had the legs. I think there's been some movies, some Middle East war movies since where, you know, it's

good, but now it's part of a collection of movies from, about that area. It's not, I mean, whatever is iconic about it is not, it's not iconic. No, it's not. Uh,

blindside Bullock on all the time on all the time. Watched it with my daughter a month ago. She loved it. Yeah. I mean, it's a watchable movie. It's, it's actually got some legs in it and it propelled Bullock into this,

this, uh, Nolan Ryan phase of her career. Isn't Kathy Bates also in that movie? Kathy Bates is in that movie. Yeah, I mean, it's just got all the right cable elements. It'll just play forever. Up in the air. As much as I hate it.

The last good Clooney performance? Last memorable Clooney performance? Last memorable one, yeah. Probably. This is weird. It was a fun year, but it wasn't a very good year. But now you go back to 99. But the reason to bring up 2009 with respect to the Oscars, though,

is that that was the most diverse Best Picture slate in the history of the Academy. It was great. I mean, you had movies directed by women. You had movies directed by black people. You had movies directed by women you had movies directed by black people you had movies directed by women about men you had a movie about it you had a cartoon about an old person you had a mega hit 3d action extravaganza and what at that point was the biggest movie of all time we could have had all these things this year we could have had some version of those things. But I think that was the first year that the Academy had opened up the voting pool to re-expand it to 10 movies, to up to 10 movies.

And I think that people were just like voting their hearts. They weren't like paying attention to campaigns in the way that they do now. I think there's a kind of, I feel like that was just an honest group of Best Picture nominees. I've said that before and people have just been able to explain why that happened. It's a fun collage of nominees. It's a great collage of nominees that, to me, tells a really interesting story about the people in the Academy that year. And that was our problem with this year. The collage wasn't the right collage. I'm going to come out of this year thinking Creed. They figured out a way to actually reinvigorate this franchise

that had seven movies in it and basically make a black movie out of a white franchise with a black lead and a black director. They reinvigorated Stallone. The boxing scenes were some of the best boxing scenes I'd ever seen. At least honor something about it other than Sly. I take Mark Ryland's Oscar win back. I think Stallone is probably going to win.

I also think that the difference though... I just feel like... I don't know how Precious became a Best Picture nominee. I don't know how Lee Daniels was nominated for Best Director. That's a weird one, right? I just feel like there are so many things that don't make sense about that year

that it just feels pure to me and i feel like there's also a kind of honesty in not nominating something like creed i also think that and i know i hate to keep repeating this but there was no campaign for that movie i think that the idea that the academy would go for like another iteration of a rocky movie it just i don't think they knew what to do to like put in slime they're done i think they didn't know what to do to to make academy voters all academy voters want to see it so 99 american beauty wins uh you had six cents which at the time really cool movie and a movie that now in the internet culture I think it gets spoiled

within five seconds. It wouldn't last but I mean. Pacino and the Insider. Yes. Spike Jonze does Malkovich. Spacey wins. That's his career performance. Denzel. Hurricane. In the Hurricane though. Hilary Swank. Yeah. Boys Don't Cry. Goes from

acting with Ian Ziering to winning an Oscar in four years, which is still one of the most amazing things that's happened. That category had Hilary Swank, Annette Bening, Julianne Moore, and Meryl Streep in it. Who is missing somebody? And Janet McTeer. Janet McTeer! Tumbleweeds!

And then Jolie won Best Supporting Actress. Yeah. But you think of 99 and stuff jumps out. Also. And I wonder, so what's going to jump out this year is why I bring all this up. I think Revenant jumps out. The Revenant, well, there's two things about the Revenant. I don't know if Spotlight has the legs like that.

No, the Revenant is also making a ton of money. Yeah. It's making a ton of money. It's going to be, come oscar night a huge hit come come oscar come the closing of the polls to vote for the out for the academy i think we'll remember the big short will we well just in terms of did you like that i i'm conflicted on it i i i don't understand i don't understand i mean i've had a lot of smart people make a case for it for me. I haven't really been convinced by any of those cases.

I find that movie to be confused and confusing. I think that, I think Adam McKay's idea of what a clarifying anecdote for the crash of the housing market is not clarifying to me i just don't think it hangs together as a movie and i feel like people's moral moral alignment with with this movie trumps what the movie is actually doing so you're blaming liberal twitter i i do blame a degree of liberal uh fealty to to to this movie's sense of outrage so the ones that'll stick out for you mad max mad max is loved mad max is great mad max is an instant classic too i think it's watchable at any stage of its being on now it's not on cable yet obviously it. It's on HBO now.

It actually does work on TV, despite the people who've seen it on TV and have been like, I don't really, I'm turning this off. It's loud. My biggest issue with Spotlight, which I really liked, was the scene when it's so understated

the whole time and then it's... Oh, the Ruffalo scene? Yeah. No, that's an embarrassment. So you knew where I was going. That's an embarrassment. We need one Oscar scene there. Yep.

What about the... It's like, come on. You just did the... The beauty of that movie was that you didn't play any of the scenes that way. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Come on. Yep. I mean, I absolutely agree with you.

That is the most... That bothered me. That scene is more embarrassing to me than anything in the big show. got nominated yeah no i mean because he's good everywhere else in the movie but that scene i mean it doesn't sink the movie would you have not you won supporting actor nomination for that movie who gets it among those guys yeah okay liev schreiber thank you but but i really respect and admire what mark ruffalo and Brian Darcy James did you know because I know those guys I liked Ruffalo's like how he made his body weird it was kind of like that is Mike Resendiz that is Mike Resendiz that is Mike Resendiz and he's got

this like Resendiz I don't know how Resendiz actually feels about that performance because Resendiz is like a really proud he's really proud of his fitness and you know that comes through in the movie too yeah but there these be these moments i didn't sit in an office with mike so i don't really know what his desk posture was like but i don't know i'd really respect and like what all of those actors did in terms of getting the people they were playing right because they didn't have to do that like america doesn't know who sasha pfeiffer is no it was great and the idea that rachel mcadams schreiber the fact that he just inhabited marty baron it's incredible but i also think i just want to say really quickly about the acting in that

movie i think the performances in that movie are are actual proof of what actors who don't get to do a lot of great acting can do yeah when they have something to go for and when they have material that like respects their intelligence very good keaton movie i mean it's a great keaton performance i mean it's a good keaton performance rachel mcadams is great she's always good though but but i have never seen her get lost inside a part this way she's never had i mean i guess true detective is was an attempt at that and she really fought hard to make sense in a part that was had nothing to do with her but i felt like her performance in this in spotlight i thought i thought was great because she had something she had a she had a thing that was a very achievable was very achievable for her, and she got it.

So we'll remember, I think this movie's going to win the Oscar spotlight. I would either pick that or Revenant. You can't dispute the fact that Revenant's making so much money. But you might be able to take care of that with Best Director. He won last year. That's great. Two in a row. Now you're talking about him being Alzheimer's. I mean, I don't know who else wins besides, I mean now you're talking about i mean i don't know who else

wins besides i mean i mean adam mckay could win i don't know i mean i i find it hard because everybody votes for director like i mean everybody votes for all the oscars at this point adam mckay won't win because he'll be considered an outsider probably i think you need to oh yeah he directed stepbrothers he's out right i mean that he nominee, I guess, is supposed to be like a consolation. Can anyone other than Brie Larson win? Feels like that's done. No, that seems pretty solid. It's just Too Bad Joy wasn't entertaining at all.

I think that's another movie that had moments, but it doesn't hang together as a movie. We need to break that whole crew up. I think America feels that way too. I heard a lot of people who did not want to see that movie because they felt they'd seen it before. And I think this is the Woody Allen movie. I think Russell is now, and this might be what he wants in a weird way, but the reason those Woody Allen movies don't really break out the way, I mean, every once in a while,

there'll be one that'll make like a lot of money and show up at the oscars yeah and it's because i mean i just think people go through these peaks and valleys and they think you know they're not missing anything with woody allen i mean he's prolific in the way that roth a lot of writers are prolific um and you know prolific in a way of movies over and over again about somebody dating somebody who's 65 years younger than them. He's made like 20 of those now. Dating back to the 70s. It's fucking creepy.

It is creepy. I'm not here to defend Woody Allen. I'm with you. How creepy is Manhattan now? Is there a creepier movie than Manhattan? It's like if Bill Cosby had made a movie about casting for actresses or something. It's funny because I'm now watching all these Cosby had made a movie about casting for actions or something I mean if you I'm you know it's funny because I'm now watching all these Cosby show episodes oh no and I'm

yet to find one that like oh here's a clue I've it's amazing like this is a completely separate issue from that show and and I hope that I'm only in season three I'm hoping nothing comes up but so we think Leo you know one other thing I remember about this year I think it'll be ridley scott's last great movie because it's really hard

to start keep making movies when you're in your 80s it's not rolling it out but i mean eastwood good chances last great one but you know um an iconic damon great french directors you know i love damon yes yes i do too we're in like basically year, the third decade of Damon. I mean, here's the thing about best actor, at least with regards to these two guys, right? Yeah.

Matt Damon is, we've said this before. I think Matt Damon in Leonardo DiCaprio, I think DiCaprio is finally properly rated. Okay. I don't think Matt Damon will ever get his due as being as good as he is. Here's my question with Best Oscar. Yes. For that.

Best actor. Best actor. Yeah. If you swap those two actors for those movies. Holy cow. Damon. I don't think DiCaprio does The Martian. It's too easy.

No, that's not a question. Okay. DiCaprio's in The Martian. Yeah. Is it better, worse, or the same? I think it's worse. DiCaprio would find, he would like have to like. It's not as funny.

Like bury himself in the dirt. It's darker. It's a darker movie. He wouldn't want to come back. I don't know. He'd be like, you know what? I'm just going to stay out here and colonize Mars myself. It's not funny.

No. With Di not funny. No. With DiCaprio. No. Okay. No. Damon's in The Revenant. It's just as good. It's the same caliber of movie.

It's the same movie. This is a great point, Paul. Yeah. It's the same movie. I think Damon wins Best Actor. In general? In life? He's life's Best Actor?

No. I think he's better in The Martian. I think it's a better performance. I don't think. Okay. So let's back up for a second. It's the Castaway Hanks argument of doing more with less. He's in the movie by himself and just staring into a camera. That shouldn't have worked like it did. Well, here's the thing about Matt Damon.

He's got two modes. Matt Damon is a movie star and he can act. Yes. And in The Martianian the best aspects of the martian and i think some of the stuff at the space station were i mean at the and nasa were really good too yeah i do um i mean i think the martian is why was kirsten wigg in this movie why was any award but any of those it was basically they're all signing a we love matt damon petition every single person in that movie from kristin wigg to donald glover was like we love matt damon petition every single person in that movie from kristen wick to donald

glover was like we love this guy but and and probably ridley scott too but i also think that um the stuff in florida is really good or nasa is really good and i think that everybody every human piece of that puzzle just makes sense the martian is a really entertaining movie that i think is did i mean that's about all it is but that's a lot given how bad that movie could have been it reminds me of gravity it's just just delivers it's just really good it's well done it's well the difference between this and gravity it's a similar thing but cuaron is i mean with all due respect to ridley scott cuaron is a genius right he's respect to Ridley Scott Cuaron is a genius he's a genius Ridley Scott's

not a genius he's not even close to a genius as a filmmaker I mean there are probably actors like to work with him because he's a weird technician who's also good with actors at the same time yeah and but i think cuaron

is just operating at a level beyond these guys okay what else do we what else do we have supporting actor still on okay supporting actress um your winner there is probably gonna be i don't know that's a that's a toss-up anybody can win that. Jennifer Jason Leigh, I think, is probably, I don't know. I mean, Kate Winslet, does Kate Winslet need another Oscar? How many Academy members actually watch The Hateful Eight would be my fear with Jennifer Jason Leigh? I think that's probably why it didn't do as well as Django and Inglourious Bastards, too. I think that it was too much for even the the people in the academy who love tarantino and uh speaking of racism we

forgot in the oscars we forgot to mention wiz khalifa not getting nominated for the fast seven song which was only one of the five biggest songs of 2015 yeah i mean but the weekend was crucial the most crucial part of that movie was the Wiz Khalifa song. It's sad but true. I saw that movie with Rave Bartholomew, Marco Santi, and Dave Schilling. Oh, it's a murderous row of Fast and Furious fans. It really was. We saw it at LA Live back when I was still at Grantland.

And that scene, none of us knew it was coming. And none of us made eye contact I was like guys you ready to go? like just I love when street guys wind up having to have an emotional moment

it's like it's worse than being in a urinal like a string of urinals with a bunch of dudes when they're all maybe gonna cry and they just don't want

to look at each other it was a bear commercial it's like alright guys wanna get back to the office? What a street jacket. But how does that not even get nominated? What a movie. I don't get that.

I really don't get that. I mean, The Weeknd's getting nominated for Earned It. I'm happy that happened. It does get a black person at the Oscars, by the way, like last year when Common and John Legend went for Selma. I think they rigged the song category. I don't think people actually know for that.

I don't get the song category because last year there was a really good original song there and they got maybe two of them right. Wesley Morris, we can find you in the New York Times. You can find me at the New York Times. It's true. You wrote a really good piece about David Bowie. Oh, thank you. I really liked it. Thank you. Yeah. It was good. York Times. It's true. You wrote a really good piece about David Bowie. Oh, thank you. I really liked it.

Thank you. Yeah. It was good. Sadness. It was good. MTV, really weird interview. Good YouTube clip. Check it out.

You're working on a couple other things. You can just check out Wesley on your Twitter feed, the New York Times archive page. Yeah. Wherever. He'll be back next time you're in LA. Every time you're in LA, come on up. I certainly will.

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Thanks, Wesley. Thank you, Bill. I'll come back. We can talk about the actual nominations. Yeah. I mean, the actual show. We about this bitch. Anytime y'all want to see me again, rewind this track right here.

Close your eyes. and picture me rolling. Thank you.