The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 63: Al Michaels

Episode Date: February 11, 2016

HBO's Bill Simmons brings on Hall of Fame broadcaster Al Michaels to discuss his "rivalry" with Bob Costas, 'Sunday Night Football' vs. 'Monday Night Football' (11:00), Dick Ebersol's role with NBC (29:00), L.A.'s new football stadium (34:00), the Olympics in L.A. (37:00), Brentwood's most infamous moments (44:00), and a moderately fast speed round with two stellar Pete Rose stories (58:00)! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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contracts. You get the best 24-7 protection possible for just $14.99 a month. It's the only security I trust. Visit simplisafebill.com and you get my 10% off discount. simplisafebill.com Let's go. All right, here he is. Coming off a career year. I thought you were great this year. I never suck up to the guests, unless I actually genuinely mean it.

I really thought you guys were amazing. This is Al Michaels, by the way. But you and Collinsworth, it was so good to the point that I was just disappointed when there were big games that you guys weren't involved with. But how are you peaking when you're in your early 70s? I don't understand. I've accused you of this before, but I do think there's some PD stuff going on with you. No.

I really genuinely do. I think you're doing stuff. You know, in my brain, I'm 19, and I've told you this many times, and it's true. I've never eaten a vegetable in my life. That's the key? No vegetables? That is the key. People don't believe it. But anybody who knows me will tell you that I've had a life of meat, poultry, fish, starch, and dairy.

And I've never had a vegetable. You go to any restaurant that I frequent, and they know when I walk in that the vegetables go to the dumpster. So I think that's part of the thing. I think in about 60 or 70 years, I will go on whatever the Oprah of like 2080 will be. And I will have lived to be 160, 170 years old. Golf. Golf helps you. Golf, yeah, a little bit, even though right now I'm fighting through a little spinal stenosis.

But the key is, Bill, the key is no vegetables, be enthusiastic, feel like you're 19 in your brain, and get to work with the people that I work with. I mean, everybody's always saying in my business, hey, I've got the best producer, director, analyst, but I do. I've been with these guys, Fred Godelli for 15 years, Drew Esikoff for 16, our producer and director, Chris Comisworth. How lucky am I? I had Fred Godelli for 15 years. Drew Esikoff for 16, our producer and director. Chris Collinsworth. How lucky am I? I had John Madden for seven years.

And then when John retired, I got Chris. I mean, that's DiMaggio retires and you get Mantle. How often does that happen? I mean, basketball will be your legacy ultimately. But you'll have the other stuff too. And Bob Costas. Of course. Yeah. Basketball was be your legacy ultimately. But you'll have the other stuff too. And Bob Costas. Of course. Yeah.

Basketball was so bad. It's one of those things that in life, sometimes things are so bad, they're good. So, I mean, it was so horrible. And when the movie came out, I was embarrassed. But now I'll see it once in a while on cable and I'll laugh like crazy as if I'm in the third person watching all this nonsense that Bob Costas and I were forced to do that day but you also you have the trump card over Costas for life because you got paid more than he did and you always get to brag about that and then he found what did he find out the last second that you were making more no no no no I found out oh you found out

remember so and then people it's in my book and you know I go on to Amazon once in a while and I'll read the review, and somebody says, oh, what's wrong with Michaels? He's bitching about making $10,000 or $15,000. I want to tell them, folks, this is not what I made. This was what the studio lied to me about. They said that every announcer in basketball, and you had, I think, Dan Patrick was in it, it and uh jim lampley told you figures for the

they said it's it's a what they call favored nations most favored nations so if you want to be in the movie here's what we're paying each of the announcers we're paying them 10 000 bucks so i looked at the script i was a little nervous about it i really didn't want to do it. Costas called me up and he said, I'm doing it. Why don't you do it? So I'm figuring, all right, so Bob's going to do it. And he and I, at that time, I'm at ABC. He's at NBC. We were good buddies and we thought we'd have a lot of fun with it.

Because the guys who did Airplane and Major League and all of that were part of the movie. So I decided to do it. And then they gave me an extra $5,000 because they had to fly everybody else in. But I lived here. All right, so I got the same 10 plus 5 for expenses. So Costas and I were on the set. And we're thinking to ourselves, toward the end of the day, oh, boy, this could be a career ender.

And then Bob says to me, well, at least it's a good payday. And I said, excuse me? Yeah. And then Bob realizes he's probably said something he shouldn't. So we flip a coin. We flip a coin. And the loser has to tell the winner what he's getting. So I lose.

But the winner then has to come up and and and the loser has to come up and then say what what what he's getting so i say i get i got the 10 plus 5 15 000 bob goes i got 50 i went excuse me 50 50 so he was the studio lied to us and this was what the whole thing was about so when people get on my ass about i'm so greedy no i'm not i'm going the studios are so greedy these bums were liars so i call my lawyer right off the bat the money was irrelevant at that point it was the fact i'd been lied to here's costas getting 50 you don't have to defend this to me but you know what why am i defending it to you that's a good question you're question yourself against two weirdos on amazon it's true oh it was a great story and anyway i wound up getting the same

thing that bob got and the movie you know the movie grossed about i don't know 14 or whatever it did right but then again you know the studios the studios are always good at basically attempting to screw talent, especially if we're ancillary talent. Like Frank Gifford and Dan DeRiff and I, we were on Monday Night Football. They wanted us to do Jerry Maguire, and we did it. And we were in about seven or eight minutes worth of it, doing commentary, et cetera, et cetera. I think they paid us each like $5,000.

Okay, so is that a lot of money? I guess, well, sure it is to some people. But on the other hand, the studio made about $300 million. think they paid us each like five thousand dollars okay so is that a lot of money i guess well sure it is to some people but on the other hand the studio made about 300 million so excuse me so do you mind if you know i'm tom cruise made you know 80 gazillion dollars and we made like 5 000 before taxes you're right why am i sitting here are you and costas friends or frenemies no we're very good friends you're or frenemies no we're very good friends you're not frenemies no not at all he's like your rival right if you look at the last 40 years you guys were kind of on the same corner a little bit well but you know what we we had by

play famous people olympics famous announcers we had parallel west coast east coast yeah but he you know he was at nbc and and I was at ABC for 30 years. And then when I went to NBC— Different networks. But it wasn't a matter of—we weren't rivals. I know. I'm just trying to start shit. I know. There you are. Why are you doing this? I buried my soul with this basketball nonsense with you,

and now we're back to creating a rift between Costas and me. No frenemy stuff with Costas? Costas and I, in fact, we had dinner as of Saturday night. Costas has to be a little jealous of your uncanny ability to end up announcing great games. You did it again. You announced a game that had two Hail Marys on the same drive. Right.

Every time you've been on my podcast, we always talk about the unbelievable luck you've had and how maybe it's not luck. Maybe when you're in the building, weird shit's going to happen or memorable shit or all this. And here we go, this last one, two Hail Marys in the same drive by a team that had already won a game on a Hail Mary. Well, I guess in all of these years,

and I've done the number one game in the NFL now for the last 30 years, which is unbelievable. Yeah. It's crazy from 1986 on. You're talking the number one prestige night game. Right. 20 years of Monday Night Football. What was your first Monday Night Football?

1985. 86. Wow, three decades. With Frank Differt. Yeah. Frank Differt. So, yeah, I've done it for 30 years, and then 10 years of Sunday Night Football,

which is the number one show on television. I have to get that in. It's not a brag. I feel like Sunday Night Football is a little bit bigger than Monday Night Football was near the end because it's just that Sunday night feels bigger. It might, and there's a reason for that too. I mean, when I was at ABC and did Monday Night for 20 years,

the feeling was from the company, hey, we're losing money on your package. You're a loss leader. You're just there so that we can promote our other shows. And you had business affairs guys trying to put us in hotels that we didn't want to stay in to save $28 on a gazillion dollar package. That doesn't sound like Disney. Well, this was pre-Disney.

Oh, this was pre-Disney. This was pre-Disney. Well, this was even the old ABC. When Capital Cities came in, but it wasn't, Capital Cities was pretty good, I got to say. They ran a good ship. But it's always some business affairs guy who wants to be a hero. Yeah. And I just saved $38 on somebody's per diem.

Yeah. So that was kind of the feeling. At ABC, we never felt exalted in any way. It was like, hey, you guys are out there. Go do your job, and you're there as a vehicle to promote everything else on the network. Trust me, it hasn't changed at ABC. I might know a couple people who work there.

The difference was when Dick Ebersole got Sunday Night Football at NBC, the priority for the network became became to promote sunday night football not to use sunday night football as a promotional vehicle this is our best thing let's make sunday night the thing you know everybody got treated extremely well and uh that led to their nine person pre-game show there was like no expense was spared. Bob Costas leather jackets. Right. Let's do it right, of course. Different leather jacket for Bob every week.

My scarves, the whole thing. Yeah, the whole thing. Whatever you wanted. And that, to me, was a little bit of the difference. And that's why all of us who are doing Sunday Night Football right now are extremely proud of it, obviously, and very happy to be a part of it. It's a great telecast. It really is. at the production value i have no dog in this race i just like football i i'm always happy when you guys do a pats game which is how i judge this

stuff by yeah it's like oh this is great yeah we have the a team doing the pats tonight this is my the replays are going to be great the announcers are going to be good collinsworth's going to tell me things about my team yep Yep. And the thing, I always judge the caller guys by when they're doing my team, are they noticing the right things? Are they noticing the holes? You bet.

Are they noticing the things we're good at? And he just was just banging it out. Do they know what you know as a fan who follows it around the clock? Yeah, because the fans know their team the most.

Exactly. It's like how you know your kids or your wife or whoever. Exactly. And that's why Chris is so good because not only does he know your team, because the fans know their team the most. It's like how you know your kids or your wife or whoever. Exactly. And that's why Chris is so good because not only does he know your team,

he knows everybody else's team. All right, I have an important question. Sure. You're adding five games. Right. On Thursday nights, yeah. You're announcing those games.

Well, yeah. I mean, we're all the number one crew, producer, director. You're doing Thursday and Sunday. Five times? A number of extra. Yeah, right now You're doing Thursday and Sunday. Five times? A number of extra. Yeah, right now we're trying to figure out exactly how this is going to work

because there's a Christmas thing in here and there's all kinds of stuff. But, yeah, we'll do some extra games for sure. One of the things I love about you is you're like me. You don't do things for free. You don't just add games to your contract. You're getting paid for this. I've got to find out what Costas is getting. You're getting paid for this. I don't out what Costas is getting. You're getting paid for this.

I don't want this to be a basketball. Well, yeah. What'd you tell them? I'll do an extra two mil a game? No. Let me ask you a question. Charter? So, what... You want to be my agent? Yeah. I think you should get an extra million a game. Just add it on. What was it?

The cast of, what was it, Friends? Yeah. They held out at the end, right? And they all got together and they basically said, if you want us to do one more year, you guys have so much leverage. They can't put the B team on the Thursday night. It's got to be you and Collinsworth. Hold out. Get Chris on the phone right now.

Hold out. Call Chris. Just tell him we'll do it. I mean, we're happy to do it, but you know, charter. Hey, just pick me up at Brentwood Airport. Take me right to the game. At the VA, of course. Build a runway.

I need a runway outside my house. I couldn't be happier at NBC. They've been great. They've been phenomenal. Well, I am worried a little bit because there's a theory, because you can't talk about other announcers, but Sims and Nance were a little spotty. I'm being kind.

I don't want to put you in a bad position, but it's tough to do two games in one week. And I think it hurt those guys having to worry about two because it's not like you guys just show up and do the games. You're flying around. You got to do the research. You got to talk to everybody. You have a nice life.

Well, I mean, for those guys, CBS the last two years, they did the whole season. I know. I think that's crazy. I don't think that's a smart move. I looked at that schedule and I went, whoa, boy. Because mentally, you have to have the right energy. Yeah. You have to know everybody and every team.

You can't screw up. You have to be totally versed. you can't screw up you have to be totally versed people think uh what do you do you show up at like four o'clock in the afternoon on sunday just put a jacket and i'm going you know when i'm flying home from a sunday game i'm already into what's going to happen uh next week so yeah you're it's like i I liken it to taking a final exam every week. Yeah. It's hanging over your head. It's hanging over your head.

No matter how much work you do, you always feel as if you've got something else that you have to do because you never know who's going to be the hero or the star, and it may be somebody that you really don't have a chance to take a really good look at along the way. I mean, look, the Super Bowl last year, I'm very lucky. I was able to identify Malcolm Butler's interception at the moment it happened.

And part of it was he'd been involved in the play with Curse a couple of plays before. Because when I'm studying for that game, I mean, I'm looking at Malcolm Butler but I'm looking at Malcolm Butler as like the 42nd guy on the roster he was he's not a guy 60 back correct and he's only in the game because you know Arrington wasn't playing very well and they had to make some changes so there's a little bit of luck involved but I mean you know I had studied everybody but certainly you're going to know a hell of a lot more about Tom Brady

than you are about Malcolm Butler going to the Super Bowl game. But that's the thing about, you know, the preparation. We never feel as if we're totally done. It's always as if, okay, we think we're locked down pretty well here, but there's always something. And I don't know what it is, but with Chris and with myself and with John Madden and all of the guys that I've worked with through the years, it's as if, okay, we're ready to go,

but you know what? There's probably something on the side we haven't thought about. And that's the scary part of it, I've got to tell you. Collinsworth and I still have some healing to do, even though I think he's the best. Yeah. Well, he did the 10 minutes to go my team's trying to come back to win the super bowl right and he does the whole i told tom look

into my eyes and do it and it's like and now it turns out this was this totally contrived story that was completely misreported the patriots got got railroaded. You should care. Bob Kraft is your friend. We lost our first round pick. We can't draft a lineman. Collinsworth, we're driving to win the Super Bowl. He's talking about how he wanted Tom Brady to look into his eyes. Then we get the Malcolm Butler play. And he immediately shifts into, I can't believe how badly Seattle screwed up.

This was the Henderson play. This was the Dave Henderson homer of Super Bowl plays. Can I enjoy the fact that my team just made the greatest defensive play to win a Super Bowl ever for five seconds? Do I have to hear about Pete Carroll? Hold on a second. You apparently were at Jimmy Kimmel's party. I was.

With about 9,000 people. With a lot of boston fans right and 8 000 of them are are doing their analysis so you're able to hear what chris is saying during that period of time no this was this was when i enjoyed the replay now you want to go back and look at the tape yeah i was like i'm gonna really come on truth be told i'm gonna get seconds yeah get my seconds because the first time you're just hugging everybody no but we did hear the look in their eyes live and i got mad well because there's 10 minutes left do that in the second no no he didn't do 10 minutes on it no he was 10 minutes left in the game right you you have to admit that the brady thing was treated differently than this manning al jazeera thing which is equally

wacky where the announcer's like, let's not bring this up. It's like, well, why are we bringing the Brady thing up? Why are we reporting stuff when we don't even know what the facts are? Look, I think we handled it correctly during the Super Bowl because the basic, when the game started, I said something along the lines of, look, everybody knows what this story is. Right. So don't belabor it.

And people were saying to me before the game, the press in particular, how much are you going to deal with this? I said, people know what this story is. So don't belabor it. And people were saying to me before the game, the press in particular, how much are you going to deal with this? I said, people know what this is. We will mention it, but unless we have new and relevant information, move on. People want to watch the game. He didn't tell Collinsworth that. No, but if he said it... I had to hear about

Brady looking in his eyes. But what was that? 10 seconds? 10 seconds in a three and a half hour television. Do you guys, do you honestly think Tom Brady looking in his eyes. But what was that, 10 seconds? 10 seconds in a three-and-a-half-hour telecast. Do you honestly think Tom Brady was in this scheme to deflate balls before games? You've seen how busy quarterbacks are. Right. He's like, hey, guys, I can't talk about the playbook now.

I got to make sure they're deflating the ball by 4%. Are you telling me you don't think there's a scintilla of a chance that Tom just with a wink and a nod. I'm not saying he did or he didn't. I don't know. Is it a better scintilla? What did the guy do in the bathroom with the bag of balls? I think he went to the bathroom. You're going to probably

go to the bathroom during this podcast. I probably won't because I went to the bathroom before the podcast. Is it a scintilla evidence that you won the Super Bowl? I feel to the bathroom before the podcast. Is it a Sotelo evidence that... You won the Super Bowl. What are you... I feel like it's been tainted. I lost my pick.

What do you mean you lost your pick? I lost a first-round pick over this whole thing. It doesn't matter. People still bring it up. Brady got booed at Super Bowl 50. He's the greatest quarterback of all time. He got booed. Maybe it's because of Sarah High School.

They had people who were... It actually was probably because of the Denver fans. I know. They were Denver fans, I'm sure. What was your take? Look, there's a lot of this jealousy that surrounds the Patriots. People think they've won too much. Well, you know Kraft really well.

I mean, you know Goodell a little bit. You know a lot of NFL people. You know a lot of owners. I would think so. You rub shoulders. I would think so. It does seem like people resent the Pats a little bit, think Kraft and Goodell are a little too close.

Oh, you're letting this guy get away with stuff again. That was all part of this, right? People hated the Dallas Cowboys when they were successful. Yeah. They still hate them. They hated the New York Yankees when they were successful. It doesn't matter. When you have a dynasty, people are jealous.

They're going to try to knock it down. They try to knock it down. We live in a world now, we live in a world of snark to begin with, right? That's true. So nobody wants to say, oh my God, how great, how wonderful. It's all hunky-dory, peachy keen. That world doesn't exist anymore. People are always looking for the underside, especially in today's world of anti-social media. Not social media, anti-social media. Well, somehow you've avoided most of this. People love Al Michaels. Well, but not everybody.

They like when you call the game. It's like everybody loves Raymond, but not everybody. I mean, you know, whatever it is. And, yes, granted, I think most of the blowback feedback toward me has been pretty good, but not everybody's going to love me. You can't do a game in front of 20 million people every week and 20 million people are going to love you. Sorry, a lot of people are going to despise you,

not even know who you are, annoy people. So I'm used to that. That comes with the territory. You know, you go about your job. You do the best job you can. There's nobody. Name somebody.

Name somebody who is throwing a perfect game. Yeah. Who doesn't get some sort of, you know, snark feedback. Let's take a quick break to talk about our friends at Fuego Box. If you're like me, you put hot sauce on just about everything. And if you do, it's time to check out Fuego Box. It's a hot sauce club that delivers boxes of small batch and craft hot sauces right to your doorstep. They focus on flavor over heat, and they always avoid gimmicky selections.

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Or not really. A couple months anyway. But it's delicious. FuegoBox.co FuegoBox.co promo code BS. Back to Al Michaels. Well, you and I have a lot of things in common, including that the Dave Henderson home run was one of the

greatest moments of both of our lives. Best baseball game I ever saw. Oh my god. Back to the left and it oh my god that's the only time I actually lost my mind I was at my aunt Jen's house and actually ran around and ended up outside and I didn't know how I got there I was in the front yard I'm like I'm in the front yard but anyway here's what else we have in common after we left ESPN slash ABC slash Disney, we were both painted as temperamental, difficult assholes.

Well, to a degree. Yeah, to a degree. And we aren't. You to about 30 times the degree I was. 30 times? 25. No way. Yes, you were.

A little more. Come on. Not as bad. Yeah. I don't think we're difficult. I kind of slid out the door, you know. I don't think we're difficult. I kind of slid out the door, you know. I don't think we're difficult. Yeah, but they did the same thing to Dan Patrick, too.

It's like, ah, he's a pain in the ass. Right. Somebody leaves and it's like, yeah, this guy's a pain in the ass. The word gets around, ah, thank God we got rid of him. Right. Right. And meanwhile, Dan Patrick's doing well. You're doing well.

Correct. I'm doing well. Rich Eisen. Rich Eisen's doing well. A lot of people end up doing well correct i'm doing well rich eisen rich eisen's doing well a lot of people end up doing well right yeah because hey sometimes it's time to it's time to leave isn't it interesting that nobody ever talks about the culture at espn they always talk about the people who had trouble in the culture it's never about hey maybe this culture isn't a great culture if they have trouble

coexisting with talented people maybe there's something wrong with that i mean there have been a couple of books written about it didn't you write a book that he talked about it's funny that it never gets spun around though it's always it's always the individual people who are the difficult ones well look there are a ton of people that we've known who've come and gone and all the rest i know you know i wasn't at espn i was at abc sports yeah but espn was running abc sports yeah it started to at that point yeah and but i was still over on the abc side and i left i left because when espn got monday night football and i could have stayed and i was going to stay but john madden was basically told we don't want you fred gadelli best producer of all time

literally the best producer of all time we don't best producer of all time. We don't want you. Drew Esikoff, best director I've ever worked with. No question about it. We don't want you. They were shoved out the door. And when they went out the door, I'm going, wait a second. That's my team. And they don't want them?

And the guy who came in and was given free reign to pick all the guys he wanted wanted people who would say oh you're the best we love you you have the greatest ideas you know what i'm talking about yeah i do yeah so that's why i wanted to stay and do monday night football but i wanted to be with john madden and fred goodell and drew essikoff and they were told we don't want you. Did you know at the time Sunday Night Football was actually going to immediately become bigger than Monday Night Football or no?

I did not. And in fact, I was shocked when the whole thing came about because I thought to myself, well, wait a minute, Monday night should always be the primary game because on Sunday there are several games. And by the time you get to Sunday night, people have maybe watched one game, two games, or whatever, or parts of games. So it's the last game. It's Sunday night. And then Monday night's a standalone.

So I always felt that's why when this thing happened, I thought it was a big mistake on NBC's part. But my team was going there, and I figured, okay, I shouldn't say a big mistake. I thought it would not be as big as Monday night. Little did I realize that the league wanted Sunday night to be the big night. And they've helped to make it that way because you look at the schedule. All the great games, most of the great games, are on Sunday night football.

And it's an incredible fork in the road moment because, and you wrote about it a little bit in your book, right? Disney had a chance to get Sunday night football and Monday night football together. That's correct. And I think the price was like $1.5 billion combined for both. Correct. They could have wiped it out.

And they didn't do it because they thought it was a high price tag, but more importantly, or almost as important, they had a really good Sunday night lineup. It was like Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy. And they didn't want to mess with the Sunday night lineup when they could have just moved it to Thursday. But if they get the Sunday and the Monday night, it's game over. And I don't know what happens to NBC. I mean, I'm sure NBC would have been kind of fine. But the Sunday night football has been probably their biggest asset.

There were a lot of dangling parts at that point, Bill. It's a great what if. Yeah, it's a great what if. You're still at Disney. Right. If that happens, right? You're doing Sunday or Monday. You're still working for one of them.

Probably. You would have never given up night football. No, I wouldn't. And wouldn't and wouldn't have had to right uh a lot of this was when this happened and i wrote about it in the book uh pat boland who was at that time the head of the television committee came to me i shouldn't say came to me i we were doing a denver at cincinnati game so i ran into pat we had a cup of coffee in the lobby of the hotel and he said to me uh your guys are asleep at the switch the number is a billion five and it's change at that point and

this was this was in 04 05 was already locked but this was going to begin in 06 yeah it was going to be a six-year deal and cbs had already renewed and fox had already renewed so the two packages that were out there was sunday night and monday night both of which were controlled at that point by disney so to keep both and do whatever you wanted sunday night on on uh could have done one on abc whatever you wanted to do Whatever he wanted to do. And a lot of this, too, was that Disney needed to have a primetime package so that they could affect the rate increases on the sub-fees. And, you know, otherwise they would have lost a ton of money. But they were going to get one package.

There was no question about it. This all boiled down to, do you want two? And I think the feeling was at that point at disney uh there's no other bidder that ge was running oh that's interesting so you think it's like the auction where you think you're the only guy with a check you don't want you don't want to look like a fool and go i just bought something and everybody's laughing at you because you you overpaid for it right you never know when that's the case. The most amazing thing that happened here, though, is that Dick Ebersole, who was running NBC Sports.

And remember, they had lost the NFL in the late 90s. They were out of it. They were out of baseball. And they lost the NBA. They had the Olympics. All of a sudden, NBA Sports was the Olympics, and that's it. And then Dick, running NBC Sports at the time, was very quietly negotiating with the TV committee, with the NFL, in particular Pat Bowlen.

And this is what he's good at. Rubbing shoulders, greasing people, networking. And Bowlen was also of a mind that if they could make Sunday night the primary night, that's where they were going to go. So Dick was able to pull this off. What was incredible is in the middle of this, before anybody knew what was going on, Dick survives a plane crash, which killed his youngest son. Yeah, horrible story.

Terrible story. Dick was rescued by his older son, Charlie. And Dick almost died. Of course. He was in the hospital in Grand Junction for, they took him up to Grand Junction for several weeks. And yet he was able to not only survive, but go right back into the negotiations with Bolin.

And that's how it happened. So when it got rebid in the spring of 05, and Disney then came in and you know sort of wanted to get both packages too late the door had already been shut because ebersole had come in from the side so dick made a um a master move he really i actually think i think the most important sports business things that happened this century 21 21st century were that and Under Armour stealing Steph Curry from Nike. Because at the time, Nike was a little bit similar, right?

Oh, maybe we don't totally need Steph Curry. We have LeBron. We have all these other guys. Oh, how much does he want? Under Armour comes in, takes Steph Curry.

He is now the most popular basketball player in 30 years. And he has single-handedly rejuvenated that brand. That was an up-and-coming brand anyway, but now they have a face of it. They have the most popular athlete in any sport is the face of their brand. And it was a little bit similar, right? Nike, a tiny bit of sleep at the wheel. Well, everybody at some point is asleep at the wheel. Oh, yeah. Were you asleep at the wheel in terms at some point is asleep at the wheel oh yeah were you asleep at the wheel in terms of not buying Under Armour stock because you're telling me something

I didn't know and now I'm thinking well you know if you would have told me that I would have bought Under Armour stock nobody knew Steph Curry was going to turn into this correct I mean they were flashes of this guy's a performer this guy has a chance to be a once-in-a-generation shooter, but not Maravich. We didn't know he was going to be Maravich crossed with Steve Nash, crossed with I don't even know what else. It's amazing. Well, Under Armour got lucky.

Yes. So did NBC. Smart, lucky, whatever. Smart and lucky. Nobody hits a home run every time they go to the plate. You know that, right? Yeah. But you want to hit 730 or something like that. Then you're doing pretty well. You've been involved in a couple ones where, like, the Dennis Miller thing,

I thought was really smart when they did it. And then it happened and it repeated itself with Tony. It took two times for us to realize football fans just want to hear football people talk about football. And it had to be proven out. I still think Tony might have had a different chance with a different type of crew, but fundamentally, it's too hard. Football means too much to people. Well, it does. And I mean, you take Dennis Miller, you take Tony Kornheiser.

They have great takes on things. They do. But sometimes the takes don't work in the middle of between second and eight and third and four. Right. And that's the problem. So with Dennis Miller, and I had a lot of fun working with Dennis for two years. You enjoyed that two years.

Don Allmire brought it. The show needed to be revamped at that point it was kind of leaking a little bit and don came in you know don is the bull in the china shop and he got a lot of stuff done you know move business affairs off to the side don't bother me the whole thing don can be yeah unbelievably off-putting but you know so don helped to clean up the show and don felt to make the show relevant again what he needed to do is go outside the box bring in somebody like dennis miller so dennis miller comes in and i loved i mean when you watch dennis miller do a show uh at a concert or he goes on the road with bill o'reilly or he's on bill o'reilly show

on fox you see dennis you show on Fox. You see Dennis. You see the facial expressions. You see him roll his eyes. You see him look confused. If you are doing in a three-man booth a football game, the camera is not on you. So a lot of the things that Dennis would say that would be hysterically funny if you could see him or you heard him and then you'd go, what?

You got the crowd going. You got the game going on. People are watching, you know, the action and Dennis is saying something maybe hysterical, but people are going, what? Or be quiet. I don't want to hear you or shut up. So that's the difference. If you had a camera trained on Dennis, it would have been funny, but you can't do that in the middle of a game. So that's the difference. And Tony, I mean, Tony's got phenomenal takes. I mean, his show with Lil Bon,

it's a great show. I love that show. They're smart. They're relevant. They get it. They're funny. But in the middle of a game, people want to watch the game. If Tony was with you in Collinsworth, though. I don't think no. It would have been an interesting science experiment. I don't even know if that works.

And you love Tony. You just played golf with him this weekend, sources told me. He's great. I love him. But remember, the game is the thing. People want to watch the game. Look, you're talking about Collinsworth, talking about Tom Brady before. And you're saying he didn't like.

So if Chris digressed for a second, it's the same thing as what Dennis would do. Totally. They're not doing the game thing as what Dennis would do. Totally. They're not doing the game itself. They're digressing. And that bothers people. It only works in baseball. Baseball is the one that I think a third guy can wear. Because baseball, you've got a pitch.

Four hours. Right. Please digress. You have 25 seconds between pitches. Yeah. So you have a ton of time. You can weave stories. Football is fascinating.

It's so great on television because you have a five-second burst, and then you have 25 seconds of no live action, but then you make the action because of all the phenomenal replays. When you also have, just in the last 10 years, you have HD and widescreen, which has been phenomenal. Tremendous. You have everybody stole the original XFL camera behind the line of scrimmage. Thank you, Vince McMahon. That been phenomenal. Tremendous. You have, everybody stole the original XFL camera behind the line of scrimmage.

Tremendous. Thank you, Vince McMahon. That was great. Tremendous. Now you have the camera on the pylons. How great is that? Everywhere. The NBC it, where you did that guy,

did he get across the line or not? You got third down markers. It's just more fun to watch football. Fantastic. Somebody had like, there was a YouTube clip or something of it was super bowl it was the jackie smith super bowl right and uh you just forget we didn't have any of that stuff stalworth caught a td he was out of bounds yeah you know it's like no replay that nowadays if that happened that's not a touchdown but just in general you and i have have had this conversation. We have. You take the four major North American sports.

Football. I would suggest that as an in-person experience, I'd rank it fourth. No question. I'd put hockey first. Baseball and basketball are similar. Oh, yeah. And then football. I'm worried about quick.

If you're sitting on the 10-yard line on the upper deck, and it's 19 degrees, and you have all these commercial breaks, I'm going, what are you even there for? It's boring. If you're sitting at home watching the game on television, oh, my God, how phenomenal. Hockey is the reverse. And you and I both love hockey.

And we were there when the Kings won the Stanley Cup. There's nothing like live hockey. There's nothing like live. If you're in the building during the Stanley Cup playoff, hockey is the greatest. I mean, you're dying a thousand deaths. Your team almost scores. Uh-oh. The other team almost, oh, you know, you're just

back and forth. I mean, by the time you're out of there, you're exhausted. I told Gary Bettman once, I said, it's the only sport where at the end of the day, the spectators are more exhausted than the players. I mean, they run you through the ringer. But on television, it's probably, you know, it's number four. I'm glad you brought this up because LA is getting a football stadium finally.

Right. I'm against new football stadiums. I don't think America needs them. This is one case where we need it. It makes sense. I like everything about it. We don't have to pay for it. Right.

We're going to have Olympics there and Super Bowls and the combine and all this stuff. And I think it's great. And I feel bad for the people of St. Louis. But just logically, it makes much more sense for a football stadium, a new one, to be in L.A. With all the things that are going on in L.A. Soccer, World Cups, concerts. Agreed. We need it.

It's in a nice place. NFL Network Studios is going to be there. It's like, I always thought it was going to be Englewood. It always made the most sense. And then when I heard he was, that Kroenke was throwing out the NFL Network and we can do this and I'll take this off your hand. I knew all those rich guys were going to, they're smart.

They always do what's best for the bottom line, and it was the best bid. Englewood was always the best site to begin with. So Rams, you were here when the LA Rams were here. Yes, I was. It seems like there's a lot of older Rams fans, and there is a tiny bit more of a tradition than maybe we think,

because you have Dickerson, you have the Ferragamo Super Bowl. Sure. You have the old school unis. What else do you have? Anything? Well. The Youngbloods.

You and I may have talked about this. I forgot. I don't think we did. I've told this story a few times. When I moved out here and I was a kid. Mid-70s? In junior high school. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Try 1958. Okay. Okay? I move out here. I? In junior high school. Oh, yeah, yeah. Try 1958. Okay. I move out here. I'm in junior high school. And I moved out here on October 23rd, 1958. And my brother and I, you know, now we're transported 3,000 miles. I'd never

been west of New Jersey. Right. And here we're dumped in L.A. And, you know, we're morose to an extent but we have I'd grown up in Brooklyn so now I'm going to be back with the Dodgers that was great and a week and a half after we moved here on November 2nd 1958 my father took my brother and me to the LA Coliseum the Rams were playing the Chicago Bears you can look this up. Beautiful day. We have good seats. The attendance that day, 100,000, 470.

This is before the NFL is the NFL. This is before the Colts-Giants game, which really, you know, the overtime game, which took place later that year. 100,470. Phenomenal game. Rams won 41-35. Jaguar John Arnett had a tremendous day. Sid Gilman's coaching the Rams. This was amazing. So you're going to tell me, here we are a half a century later, and Southern California has maybe 100% more people than it did then. You can't sell 65,000 seats. You can sell them in 10 minutes.

Oh, no question. And worst case scenario, there's so many transplants here. It'll just be a place where the road team has 70% of the fans. I mean, think of the NFL compared to what it was then. You can draw 100,000 people in 1958. And people, you know, all these Eastern writers for years, oh, all they do out there is they surf and they go to the beach. What?

Right. You can't find 65,000 people who want to go to football games. The people I've talked to are very excited that the NFL is coming back. And, you know, people of a certain age are very excited that the Rams are coming back. You're going to have a big blue-collar population that's much bigger than people think, I think, about the L.A. and the extended areas. And you're also going to have a lot of rich people jockeying for the suites, the best seats, all that stuff.

There's no question it's going to work. My question is, could two teams work? That's where I think it gets a little dicey. I'm not against it, but I think it's dicey. Again, I go back to Southern California has over 20 million people. Yeah, and growing. That's a big base. Growing.

Yeah, I mean, there are 20 million people. That's bigger than a lot of countries. Right. That's as big as Scandinavia. But somebody's going to be the Clippers in this scenario. Probably, but the Clippers, by the way, make a lot of money. Right. So can a second team come in and make money?

Of course. If the Chargers, who have the option to come here next year, they're going to play in San Diego obviously this year. And chances are, unless the vote passes for them and they get a stadium in San Diego, I would imagine they wouldn't.

The Chargers will be worth a lot more in Los Angeles, even as the second team. And their fans can come to the games. I mean, it's an hour 45. Right. It's not like they're moving to Hawaii. Right. But I just don't think, you know,

I feel bad for the San Diego fans, but I don't understand how you can justify building a new football stadium in San Diego. What's going to be in it? You're going to have eight football games a year and five concerts, and then you're done. What else can go in there? That's the thing people forget with these stadiums is there's not enough things to put in a stadium. You can have a convention there, I guess.

But ultimately, like in L.A., we'll actually use this L.A. stadium. This is something that is needed. Now the forum's next to it. I think it's a focal point if LA gets the Olympics. You think LA's going to get the Olympics, right? I think it has a decent chance. I'm not sure LA's going to get it. I think it's a good chance.

Well, I mean, Paris is involved in this, and what, Hamburg, Germany. I forget who else is involved. Rome. Yeah, I mean, I think LA has a decent chance. But remember, LA wasn't even the first choice of the U.S. Olympic Committee. Your town was. What happened? Knocked it out of there.

They did. I said from day one, it was the worst idea I'd ever heard. You can't put the Olympics in Boston. They don't want it. It's too provincial. They don't want all these people coming in. They don't even like when the head of the Charles comes in for a weekend. I thought all Boston liberal thinkers welcome the world.

Get those people out of there. People building stuff. I defer to you on all things Boston. Boston people are trained not to trust construction promises after the big dig. You think? Oh, yeah. It was never going to work. Wait, quickly.

LA, let's talk about the Oj show and the 20th anniversary stuff like 20 i guess 22nd anniversary but uh this this fx thing has rejuvenated the oj and now espn has this thing that's going to be really good this summer too that's coming out but in general there's been an oj nostalgia renaissance are people bringing it up to you well yeah people have said to me, you're going to watch the OJ FX thing. I guess that's on. I watched the first episode.

I don't even think the second. Has the second one aired yet? It was last night. It was spectacular. I'm recording the whole series. Listen, when you can get Malcolm Jamal Warner and Cuba Gooding Jr. in a white Bronco reenacting the Bronco chase,

they didn't call on you, though. They didn't have an actor playing you, I don't think. No, and I'm very happy about that too i mean yeah i thought some of the i saw the uh i mean it's a good cast uh travolta as uh bob shapiro a little over the top but that's travolta though yeah but i mean i knew i knew all those people and i know that was shapiro wasn't that kind of and meanwhile And meanwhile, I'm watching the thing, the first episode, and the actress who plays Marcia Clark, you know, the curly hair and all that. Sarah Paulson.

Sarah Paulson looked like Marcia Clark. But, you know, this is where... And you can't blame them. I mean, this can't be a total documentary. Everything is 1,000% correct. So there's a little bit of... I don't think they wanted it to be correct. But theatricalized. But I thought there were some very realistic scenes.

The Cato Kaelin character reminded me a lot of Cato Kaelin. No question about that. And you knew Cato Kaelin. A little bit. Because I used to play tennis at O.J.'s house. And Cato was hanging around in the back there. So I met him. So I'm thinking to myself, though, in this script,

when Marsha Clark gets the call and she hears about this double homicide, and then she, in the script anyway, pretends that, or contends that she doesn't even know who O.J. Simpson is, I'm going, what? That can't be true. I mean, if

Marsha Clark didn't know who Oj simpson was no wonder she lost the the trial this to me come on everybody knows so again that's probably something that was in the script and then the guy's like come on the juice oj simpson he ran for seven for 2 000 yards right they tried to do the the tv movie sum up oj's football career as the guy's talking i I really enjoyed that. I thought some of the scenes were great. They looked like, I think they shot them in Hancock Park, some of those scenes.

You think so? Yeah. I've heard that they did. Not in Brentwood. It's funny, though. I've lived in LA now for almost, I guess, 13 and a half years. Yeah. Every year I'm here here it becomes more unbelievable

to me that all this happened in brentwood brentwood is the quietest most unexciting city in america nothing happens in brentwood oh yeah nothing i've lived there for 30 years it's yeah i know you have that's why i bring this up don't forget who we've also had beside OJ. Who? Around the same time. Monica Lewinsky was from Brentwood. What? Didn't you know that? No. Come on.

That blows my mind. There you go. Bad choice of words. So don't talk about the late, great, quiet Brentwood, right? We've had our share of stuff. It's just amazing. Like, even there's a scene in the first movie where this woman who was driving in Brentwood got cut off by somebody that she thought was O.J. Simpson. And she's like, and he cut me off and he yelled at me.

And I'm like, that was like the second craziest thing that's ever happened in the history of Brentwood. This O.J. cutting off this lady. Because even that doesn't happen in Brentwood. By the way, I never heard that. And she's going to the soup plantation at 1045 at night. I mean, I guess it's Jeffrey Toobin's book. There's a lot of stuff in there. I knew a lot about a lot because I know all the people.

And I'm living in the middle of this whole thing. But there are some things I didn't know. And when I saw that, I said, did that really happen? I never heard that. I never heard that. Unbelievable time for gossip and dinner party chatter and all that stuff, right? The next few years. What'd you hear?

Everybody knew somebody. It's all anybody wanted to talk about yeah and it was what was surreal is living in the middle of the scene of what was then the crime of the century yeah in terms of of of getting airtime and publicity and all of that helicopters was the crime. It probably was the crime of the century. Did it hurt the Brentwood, like, I don't know, the appeal of living in Brentwood at all, or did it help it? Look, everything has a shelf life, so for a number of months, people

would want to go by Bundy and look at the scene and go by Rockingham and see where OJ lived, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Go by Mezzaluna, the restaurant which is long gone on San Vicente. Yeah, Mezzaluna's gone. I was going to ask you about that. That's long.

And then when OJ was acquitted, then you had a few more people out there. But right now, what they've done, I mean, if you drove by the Bundy site, they've changed it around and you wouldn't even know where to look if you didn't know where it was. You act like I haven't done this. You act like I haven't done this with Google and tried to actually find the house. I did it like the first year I was here. Of course.

And it was gone. And we're like, where is it? That was part of the tour. You had to see. Everybody who came out here, this was the one thing they had to see. You had to. Where was the murder?

Where did OG live? Yeah. But that's, you know, I guess you get a few people who go by now, but it's been two decades. We interrupt this interview with BS podcast hall of famer Al Michaels to talk about SoFi. It's a new kind of company that's sending shockwaves, the good kind, through the financial world. SoFi decided that banks aren't going to

fix banking, so they brought some Silicon Valley smarts to the table. Oh yeah. Unlike the big banks, SoFi is designed for the 21st century. They're progressive. They're nimble. They are innovative. They don't judge their numbers based on a FICO score. Instead, they look at their potential, and if they show promise, they'll back them for life. For life! And I don't totally know if it's FICO or FICO, but I think it's FICO.

Anyway, because SoFi is not a bank, they can provide services and rates that the banks cannot. It's just too bad they didn't back my Super Bowl picks because I have nailed four straight years of Super Bowl picks. I have proven my potential and my promise. And now you can do the same with SoFi. If you're looking for a financial partner designed for the 21st century, visit SoFi.com and discover why banks are not the future of banking anymore terms and conditions apply again that is SoFi.com

alright we're trying something I want to do a speed round with you I did this with Obama it was really fun oh my god so you got to keep your answers short because we're going to rip through this right okay you're name dropping already right you did Obama so now you got me that was a good name drop wasn't it that was a fantastic name drop yeah barack and i did this

once did you call him barack yeah call him barack now okay uh go your dream double date dream double day best double date your wife says we have a double date with blank and you're the most excited like You're like, oh, Saturday night? This is great. Putin and his wife. Putin and his wife? You're ducking this. Let me think. Hold on a second. Putin would actually be pretty good.

This is like the half speed round. Oh, God. Hold on a second. I'll do another one. This will be easier. Go ahead. Your dream golf foursome. My dream golf foursome? Yeah, you can invite any other three people.

You know who I played golf with twice? I've been lucky enough to play with Bush 43. Okay. He is great, great, great. Great hang. Okay, so Bush 43. Who else? Who's your other two?

He's in there. Kornheiser? Kornheiser? Kornheiser? Peyton Manning. Again, I played with Peyton. I played with Bush 43. So Bush 43, Peyton Manning. Somebody else who I'd like to play with? Oh, God.

You know? The speed round is not going well. This is not speedy at all. But you know what? You can edit the tape and make the scene as if I've got the answers faster here. So far, Putin and his wife on dinner. We know who it would have been up until a couple of years ago, but unfortunately I was supposed to have dinner with him at one point,

set up by Collins River, was Neil Armstrong. Neil Armstrong was the one guy I always wanted to have dinner with. Always. Who have you played the most golf with over the last 10 years? Doc Rivers? A lot. Oh, yeah. Your buddy, Doc.

Have you... Doc and I are great. You've reached a record. I like Doc Rivers. We're totally fine. I served as the mediator on that. You know that. Well, Wilbon also claims that he did.

So you got to solve... Hold on a second. Wilbon takes a lot of credit. Right. Both of you. You helped too. Thank you. Best golf course you ever played?

I've got my Holy Trinity. You ready? Augusta, because it's Augusta. Yeah. Cypress Point, which is on the shore up by Pebble Beach. And Royal County down in Northern Ireland. Speed round is becoming speedy now. It's becoming pretty good.

That's my Holy Trinity, of course. Is not doing the Masters your biggest broadcasting regret? No, because I've rarely done golf. And frankly, I'd rather watch it. Golf is not something I ever aspired to announce. It's a different animal. What's your biggest broadcasting regret? Thing you didn't get to do.

I've gotten to do everything. I would say if i have a small regret it's that baseball which i loved to do went away too early i you know we lost i did i did i did the 14 years of monday night baseball on abc right 14th i've done eight world series you do chambliss's walk off when the fans are the other the other series you did right now't do Chambliss. I had the other series. You did? Right. No, that's too bad. That was a great one. Oh, it was fantastic. You did Dankiger, though. You did Handu. I did Dankiger. I had the 85 World Series. I had the earthquake in 89. Yeah, yeah. We split it with NBC in 95. Cleveland, Atlanta.

I mean, for a guy who's done eight World Series, I feel like somebody else did it some other life. Yeah. And when we lost it, I loved baseball. Did you miss baseball, though? I did miss it. I don't now. I mean, it's been so long. I don't miss it now.

It's too boring. Well, I loved doing it. I enjoyed doing it. I built my career around baseball. So that would be my only regret. Do a Collinsworth imitation. I had to look into Tom Brady's eyes. Oh, come on

here's my other regret I didn't do one more year of the NBA just to piss you off a little bit more you were getting better I was getting better I was so impressed you were improving I was

I just wanted you know the funny thing is when I did the NBA you didn't want to do it no no no that was always my issue you didn't want to do it I know you didn't want to do it

you were warned you got talked into it hold on you didn't care no I wanted to do it no no no you didn't want to do it i know you didn't want to do it you got talked into it hold on you didn't care no i i wanted to do it once i got into it because yeah it was fun i had a blast doing it but i didn't have the confidence that i had in baseball and football so it took me a while to get up to speed because remember when i went to do the nba i had like a 15 or 20 year blank period leading up to it where I really didn't follow it that closely. So if I do baseball or football, the tapestry in my mind, I can play it out. I can go, you know, 10 years ago, 15.

Here's what's relevant versus what happened, you know, in history. And the NBM go, whoa, whoa, whoa. I have this big blank. It's like amnesia almost. Yeah. Sure. Is there an announcer that you're a tiny bit's like amnesia almost. Yeah. Sure. Is there an announcer that you're a tiny bit jealous of?

Jealous of? Yeah. No. No. Why? I mean, you know. This is a speed round. You don't have to answer.

I know. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. I've lived out every dream I could possibly have had in this business. Best looking celebrity who ever hit on you? Really? You've been married since 1966. I think your wife would have correct i don't want to say angie dickinson but she was very nice to me on a plane about 25 years ago she wasn't hitting on me police woman well she was very friendly she was very friendly and she was she liked horse racing

and i was sitting next door on a plane she felt like in another lifetime you might add a chance yeah police woman was incredible. One of my first crushes as a little kid. There you go. And I want this to be some website that's going to have Angie Dickinson hit on Michael. It didn't happen. The fans love speed round. I know it. I know but

I want context in the speed round. One quarterback ever three minute drill you're down four. You get 302 on the clock, you gotta go 80 yards. You have to pick one QB, your life's on the line.

Montana. I think that might be mine too, as much as I love Brady. Oh yeah, I mean, you can name a bunch of guys. Brady second, Brady 1B. Well, what about Peyton? No, you don't, you know.

You're a Boston guy get out of here how many guys don't have the name here just stop it best looking celebrity you ever saw in person best looking celebrity

best looking one the one where you're like wow unbelievable Sophia Loren Sophia Loren and not that many years ago looks great now

she's like 80 no kidding she looks fantastic no kidding I saw her maybe 20 years ago best Super Bowl location Super Bowl can only be in one place she's like 80. She looks fantastic. No kidding. I saw her maybe 20 years ago. Best Super Bowl location.

Super Bowl can only be one place for the next 50 years. If San Diego had a good stadium that would be it. Okay. Yeah. Because the weather's good. There's nothing like

blue skies, sunshine. I would pick Miami but I wish the Miami stadium was better. Not me. Favorite partner you've ever had? Linda Michaels.

Oh, such a great answer. What do you want from me? Most embarrassing TV moment you ever had? Most embarrassing. Well, see, you could go, you had all kinds of jobs. Yeah, I mean, fortunately, nothing, there was no horrible moment okay no harm there were a couple of you know there was a moment in time we had leslie visser was our sideline reporter on

monday night in jacksonville in the mid 90s and i was told it was a minute and a half commercial it turned out to be 30 seconds and i'm screwing around with you know leslie going back and forth and i had you know you guys were on the air yeah Yeah, I think I said shit, so shit got on the air, but, you know, so what? That's embarrassing. That's a good answer. It's sort of embarrassing these days. Who cares? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of embarrassing. You, once upon a time, tested people out for the dating game. That was my first job.

That was really your first job? I got out of college. Because I saw that on Wikipedia, and I never believe anything I read on Wikipedia. I worked for Chuck Barris. Okay. So, in fact, not only was I helping to pick the girls who went on a dating game, but I just got married at that point. So it all worked out.

You have to drive cross country with one of these two people. Chick Hearn or Boomer Esiason? He's so bad. Well, Chick Hearn is dead. He's alive. This guy is alive. Boomer Esiason or chick hern's corpse no chick hern's back you are so bad your best pete rose story you're in cincinnati with him for a couple years you might have to have one great pete rose story can i give you two

sure please i mean there's no yeah there's no there's no uh end point here two uh and i talk about them both in my book number one when i'm doing the reds the first year we have an off day in spring training and you know pete and i knew we loved horse racing we love playing so pete takes some uh batting practice in the morning. We get in the car at about 12 o'clock with Bob Herschel, who was the beat writer for the Cincinnati Inquirer at the time. And we went to Florida Downs, which I think is called Tampa Bay Downs, whatever it is right now. It's an Oldsmar across the water.

And we went to a full afternoon of horse racing. Yeah. Then we got in the car and we went down to Derby Lane in St. Petersburg, which is where they had greyhound racing. Okay. So we had a full cart of that. horse racing yeah then we got in the car and we went down to derby lane in saint petersburg which is where they had greyhound racing okay so we had a full a full card of that we go back into tampa where we're staying across the gandhi bridge and at the end of the gandhi bridge it's about 11 o'clock at night is a highlight front home but the highlight front home would have a late double so we stopped there to bet two highlight games highlight yeah so we did we did a full pre

highlight scandal late 70s remember that giant highlight scandal well yeah so we who cared it was yeah we had a parimutuel window so we did that so we we had we had a full day of horse racing an evening of dog of greyhound racing and then two highlight games the other one and that was a mellow night for p Rose from a gambling standpoint. For Pete, it was just another night. Yeah. But, you know, look, Pete had gotten his work in that day, so then he needed to get his gambling Jones in.

Okay. The other one would be in the 1973 National League Championship Series. Mets. The Reds and the Mets. The Reds, a phenomenal team, heavily favored to win the Mets had won 82 games that year that's all and that was enough to win the National League East yeah so the Reds win the uh the first game on home runs in the eighth and ninth inning by Rosen bench beat Tom Seaver but John Matlack beats the Reds in game two. We go to New York for game three. I love that you can remember all this.

This is the game. Game three is the game where Rose tries to break up a double play, barrels into Bud Harrelson, and they get into a fight. Good fight. Which leads to everybody throwing crap out of the stands at Pete in left field. And the peace party goes out there, which includes Yogi Berra. Willie Mayize is playing for the mets at the time that was sad rusty stop tom siever and the game continues and the the

mets win the game so this is the best of five so the mets big underdog is now they're up two games to one the reds have their backs to the wall. The Reds were, I mean, we had a tremendous team, great personalities, and the bus rides were always very lively. But we go out to Shea Stadium for the fourth game, stay at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York. It's a very quiet bus ride, unlike any ride I'd ever been on with the Reds. But all of a sudden, it's like, oh man, what's going on? It's a day game. We get to Shea Stadium and there are 500 people outside the gates and they're

throwing eggs, rocks, batteries, the whole thing, all kinds of signs. Fuck you, Pete. I can say that here on the podcast. Yes, you can. So as we were driving in through the gate and Pete was sitting there in front of the bus, he gets up and he looks back to the team from the front of the bus,

and he goes, all right, do or die, do or fucking die, like that. Let's go. So this was the pep talk that Pete gave in the bus. So he needs all kinds of security. I mean, it's like crazy. So what happens in that game? The game goes to extra innings. Mets trying to clinch the pennant. The Reds come up in the top of the 12th inning and Pete Rose hits a home run off Harry Parker to give the Reds a two to one

lead. And they win the game two to one as the Reds hold the mets and so it sends it to a fifth game which the mets would eventually win so i'm on the bus with pete after the game and i always used to love to sit next to him across from him because you know he it was like getting a phd yeah and i said to pete can you put into um into words what you're thinking as you know you've hit the home run? And only Rose could come up with something like this. She goes, well, you know, I'm rounding first base, and you can look into our bullpen, and I'm thinking the Mets have Milner and Staub, two left-handed hitters, coming up in the bottom of the 12th inning.

Sparky better get Tom Hall, a lefty, up in the bullpen. I'm going, really? And you know what? He's not making that up. Right. He's thinking it. It's 2-1. That's history.

Sparky better get Tom Hall up. I mean, whoa. So in my mind, it's unfortunate because it's sad. It's not tragic. It's sad what happened to Pete. As a manager, strategically, nobody would know more than he did. Nobody. In terms of how you run a football, run a baseball team,

I don't know. When I was growing up. He had his positives and negatives. But I'll just conclude with the fact that I think Pete is the most exciting athlete I've ever covered. Really? Oh yeah. Because he gave 100%, a true 100%, around the clock.

He played a spring training game in Bradenton, Florida, the same way he did the seventh game of the World Series, and I've seen both. I've seen it with my own eyes. When I was growing up, he was the guy. In the 70s, he was the best player of the 70s. There was nobody better than Pete Ross. When you think about it, when I'm a kid growing up,

I'm going, the only record that could never be broken is Ty Cobb's hit record. Because you would have to have more than 200 hits a season over 21 years. Nobody does that. He was an animal. He did it. I went too long on it, didn't I? No, that was good. I enjoyed that, though.

Some speed round. I'm telling eight-minute stories in the speed round here. Rank these games. Denkager, Malcolm Butler, Henderson, Norwood. Rank those games. The Henderson game. Best baseball game I ever saw. That's Boston and California.

Wow. Over Denkager? Yeah. Okay. Because it's a more entertaining game more entertaining game The police around the field Gene Mock It's amazing Mock's going to win

And Gene Autry's going to win Do you remember in the 9th inning Buckner came up Buckner was the heart of that Red Sox team And he was yelling at Mike Witt Trying to get in his head do you remember this I remember everything he was leaning forward he was like calling him like an MF-er Buck Buckner was getting a shot in his ankle every day he was the heart of that whole season it's one of the saddest things I've ever seen Bill Buckner who is not a hall of famer but he's he was close he He had 2,800 hits. That's a hell of a career.

He was unbelievable that year. He was tremendous. I was in the car with my daughter. She lost the state cup game this weekend. The other team scored a goal that rolled through our goalie's legs. We're driving back. That was like a Bill Buckner play. She's like, who's Bill Buckner? I told her the whole story. I'm like, we're up 5-3.

Two outs. Bottom of the 10th. single, single, single, bring in a new reliever, wild pitch, tie game, ground ball right through the guy's legs. And she was like, were they mean to him after? And I was like, yeah, they were actually very, very mean to him. And it's just sad because he was was the heart and soul of that team. He should have been on the disabled list.

Yeah, he should have. So he's on it. Mike Witt gets on base. Baylor hits the underrated homer of the inning. Correct. Pitching change. Correct. The guy gets on. Hendu. Boom. And then we almost lost in the bottom of the ninth, which nobody remembers.

No kidding. Of course. I remember that. Bobby Grich popped out. Grich in the sense that he was Steve Crawford. He couldn't bring Chiraldi in because he couldn't trust Chiraldi at that point. Because Chiraldi had an all-time meltdown that weekend. The night before. Yeah. Remember, the night before, they blew a 3-0 lead.

Total meltdown. That's why I didn't trust Chiraldi even in the game six Mets. Because it was like I'd already seen him meltdown. You get that crazy look on his face. All right, so you have Henderson first. All right, Henderson first. Butler second. Just admit the Butler game was unbelievable.

That was such a great game. Awesome game. I mean, the game was great. Had the curse catch. Tremendous. The whole thing. With everything that was going on around that game, the two best teams in football, tremendous.

So, Dankajer and Norwood. Well, I mean, 3-3, basically. Okay. I mean, the Norwood game is giant spills. So, you know, people who don't remember what we're talking about here, it's giant spills. Spills are a juggernaut. Right.

It's in the middle of Desert Storm. They did a lot of, they did a retrospective on the Super Bowl pregame show this week. Whitney Houston's national anthem, the whole thing. Country kind of changing. You know, security was

nothing like I'd ever seen. And, yeah. And the Denkinger game was, you know, look, if it was today, that call would have been overturned. Yeah. Replay.

No question. USC alums or UCLA alums? In terms of what? That's the question. My kids both went to USC. Okay, there you go. Pat Hayes is a good buddy. But I've always loved UCLA too.

Best up-and-coming play-by-play guy. Guy who you think is the next you, potentially. Well, there are a lot of good guys out there that I hear. I think Chris Fowler really does a nice job on college football. I really do. I think Chris has thought of – He's older than I am, though. Well, but I'm saying he hasn't done or didn't do a lot of play-by-play

until recently. I think Dan Schulman does a really good job on baseball in the times I've heard him. Sean McDonough. Again, these guys have been around for a while. Kevin Burkhardt, I Schulman does a really good job on baseball in the times I've heard him. Sean McDonough. Again, these guys have been around for a while. Kevin Burkhart, I think, does a really good job. I was going to say Burkhart's my guy. I think he's the next guy.

Kevin does a really good job. You know what I love, Burkhart? There was this rain delay in the playoffs. And he had Rose, Pete Rose, A-Rod, Frank Thomas, and CJ Nikowski I forget who the fifth guy was and there was a rain delay and they had to basically ad-lib for a half hour

and that was when I did TV that was always my favorite because ESPN had to script their shows so carefully we were just basically rehearsing a play so I used to love when we had to fill because that's when it was actually TV and you're ad-libbing and Burkhart was unbelievable

and that's when I was like that guy's the next guy I had more fun doing rain delays when it was actually TV and you're ad-libbing. And Burkhart was unbelievable. And that's when I was like, that guy's the next guy. I had more fun doing rain delays when I was doing baseball. Yeah, that's when you're making your bones. If you can ad-lib, that's it. In Cincinnati, we had a ton of rain delays because of the weather in Cincinnati in the summertime. So I got my chops there and then I went to San Francisco. We didn't have very many rain delays.

When did you know that OJ did it? How many days after? Well, it took a while for it to be, you know, there was always... How many more times did you play tennis with him before you realized? There was a measure of doubt. You know, you didn't know whether he did or he didn't for a while. And then, you know, the longer it whether he did or he didn't for a while and then the you know the longer it went on then you realize well especially not even in the car chase you didn't you weren't

oh he did it by then or now i only i wrote about this in the book very few people would understand the human condition better than howard bingham who was who was Muhammad Ali's photographer. Yeah. Right? An iconic photographer. And somebody who had been around Ali his whole life. And Howard Bingham was a hugely intelligent man. And Bingham was on the plane,

sitting across the aisle from OJ, that night, when OJ got on the flight to Chicago, the red-eye with his golf bag, you know, checked the curb. And I remember seeing an interview with Howard Bingham in which somebody said, would you have had any idea? He said, absolutely not. So when I saw that interview and I thought, if Howard Bingham, and he knew OJ, so apparently they had some conversation on that flight, and he goes, he didn't see anything that would lead him to believe that anything had happened?

I'm going, wait a second. How could somebody commit a heinous double murder with blood-curdling screams that nobody heard on bundy because it was a while before they found the bodies yeah and howard bingham says i didn't see anything different i'm going wait a second so that there were a lot of confusing aspects we didn't know all of the facts at that point people are jumping to all kinds of conclusions he definitely did it he couldn't have done it you know to me i'm a guy i need i want facts everybody can have an opinion except with the flake gate except for the flake that's the only time you didn't want facts you didn't want facts for that you know you just let collinsworth go and i you know again in the book

i talk about when i i went to you know i was on the list to visit oj i was a friend of his i was a friend of his. I was a colleague of his. We had worked the Olympics together. Did all the track and field in 1984. And I was a little unnerved when OJ would say, I can't believe they thought I did it. As opposed to, God damn it, I didn't do this. And that was... He didn't protest enough for you.

Right. I mean, if you didn't do something like that, wouldn't you be banging on the walls? Yeah, you'd be going crazy. You'd be going crazy. Three more. I'm sorry? Three more speed round questions. Three more speed rounds.

Yeah, we're done. We've done this for about an hour and a half. This is our speed round. Go ahead. What's the second most exciting thing That ever happened in Brentwood? The second most exciting thing? Yeah, the OJ thing was the most exciting

Right So what's second? Well, Monica Lewinsky didn't happen in Brentwood But she was No I meant in Brentwood It has to be in Brentwood Has to be in Brentwood?

In Brentwood I think you're proving my point. I am. I know why you're asking me this, because you know what? We're just kind of a sleepy little hamlet. I know you are. What's the second most, I don't know, the marathon comes through there? Who the hell knows?

Best fan base for football when you're at the game. Crowd that gets you the most excited to be there. Well, there are two stadiums where it's almost a college atmosphere. Number one, Green Bay is special. I mean, you can't compare that to anything else. This is what that area is about. It is the Green Bay Packers. I mean, what other city, could you just say the name of the city

and then, of course, Packers. You say Green Bay Packers. So Green Bay is one. Green Bay is one. And I've always loved going into Kansas City because everybody's dressed in red. They built a stadium. I mean, the design was laid out in the 60s.

They built it in the early 70s. And it still looks pretty darn good. No other city that I can think of built a stadium that long ago, and it still looks good. You know, they refurbished it a little bit. But Arrowhead Stadium has always had a big-time feel for me. You know, the National Anthem home of the Chiefs. I need to go.

I still haven't seen the game there. I need to see it. It's cool. It's very cool. I need to go. I still haven't seen the game there. I need to see it. It's cool. It's very cool. I used to love doing baseball there, too. Good baseball stadium. I mean, they were way ahead of their time there by building. They were the first city to build separate facilities

with a common parking lot for the football and baseball teams. They got it right. They really did. It's a great place to watch a baseball or a football game. They got it right. So Kansas City's fun's a great place to watch a baseball or a football game. They got it right. So Kansas City's fun, especially when the Chiefs are doing well. There's a buzz in that place. What are you going to do for the next six months?

I'm going to begin to study up for the Olympics. The Olympics? Yeah, doing Rio. I can't believe you haven't gotten out of that yet. Can you do it from here? Can I do it from here? I'm not going to Rio. I want to go.

I'm staying out of there. Come on. That mosquito, I'm out. When there's killer mosquitoes, I'm out. Bill. I'm out. Every Olympics I've done. There's something scary?

The press scares the hell out of people. Well, it worked for me. I'm going to be here. Let me tell you something. So Richard Engel, who's a terrific foreign correspondent for NBC News, he's great. You never know where he is. He's in the middle of Syria. He's in Bangladesh.

He's at the North Pole. He's everywhere. So I got to meet Richard in Sochi, Russia, two years ago. And Richard comes into my dressing area and he says, let me ask you a question. He says, why are there no people here?

I go, why? Because you scared the piss out of them. You scared my wife from coming. You scared Bob Costas' wife. You scared every wife. You scared everybody. I said, you're the one. He said, no, no, no, no.

I said, Richard, you're the guy. I said, we were going to be under attack. By the way, I never felt safer in my life than I did in Sochi. Why? Because there was nobody there. No, you got the Black Sea. Yeah. I mean, was terrorists going to come in on a PT boat?

Like, what? And then it was surrounded by mountains. And most of the events were in one Olympic park. And it was impossible to get in there. Who was going to come in there? So you're the daytime host of the Olympics. Right. And anyway, so let's see.

What else was going to happen? Oh, London. Don't forget London turned out to be phenomenal. London was awesome. Phenomenal Olympics. That was the best. You went, right? Best family experience we ever had.

But remember what the press set up for you. We're going to have rocket launchers on apartment buildings. Oh, yeah, terrorists in the subways. We're going to have submarines in the Thames. Come on. This is a great sales job. Remember LA-84? Oh, smog.

Yeah. Terrorism. Traffic. There was smog. There was no smog during the Olympics. Because everybody left. That's right. Whatever it was.

So, I mean, don't be afraid to come to Rio. Wear a mosquito net. Come to Rio with me. Don't lose sight. I know you're going to start studying for the Olympics, but don't lose sight of the eye on the prize. You and Collinsworth have to go in and do the friends thing. Million a game

each, and then an extra million just out of respect. Six million for five games. We need an agent. I'm your agent. I'm just telling you. Go right in.

What percentage do you want? No. I owe you for the six great podcasts you've given me. You go in together. We want one million a game each and an extra million out of respect. That's what you say. And it's not negotiable. Is this like your HBO deal?

Is this what you're talking about? Tell me about your HBO deal. I want you guys to be taken care of. I want you guys to be taken care of. This is a big thing. I'm worried about you doing two games in the same week. I don't want you guys to suffer. You had an unbelievable year. We'll survive.

Yeah. Trust me. I'm worried about you. Make them pay. I'm worried about you. You're going to be on the HBO show. I want to be. Yeah, you're going to be on the HBO show. I want to be. Yeah, you're going to be on.

When does this happen? It's this summer. All right. Sometime this summer. It'll be good. So that's what you're doing over the next few months? I want to team you up in an interview with somebody that you would be excited to do an interview. So it'll be me, you, and one other person.

Don't tell me now, though. But think about it. Okay. That'll be good. That way we can have an awesome conversation. That'll be fun. That'll be all right this is fun thank you for thank you for coming by every one of them has been great i feel like we're five for five or six for six whatever i think we're five although the highlight was when i surprised you with the hawaii 5-0 footage that was fabulous you didn't know that was coming you you you were dying that was the best. I played the young attorney, Dave Bronstein.

Dave Bronstein. Where's he these days? Dave Bronstein slash Al Michaels. Thank you as always. I want to be on as much as like Cousin Sal. Yeah, absolutely. You can be my gambling expert. Thank you.

Pleasure. All right. Thanks to SoFi for sponsoring today's BS podcast with Al Michaels, one of my favorite people. They are transforming the world of finance and making the big banks lose sleep. Because SoFi isn't a bank, they can help their members in ways the banks cannot. Visit SoFi.com, S-O-F-I dot com, and discover why banks are not the future of banking. Terms and conditions apply. Thanks to HBO Now, you don't need cable

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we will be back we about this bitch anytime y'all want to see me again rewind this track right here close your eyes and picture me rolling