The Bill Simmons Podcast - Ep. 65: 'The Ringer' Announcement, Robert Smigel, and JackO

Episode Date: February 17, 2016

HBO's Bill Simmons discusses the launch of his digital venture, 'The Ringer'; brings on Robert Smigel to talk about his Hulu special, 'Triumph's Election Special 2016' (18:00); and consoles JackO about the state of the Republican Party and the country in general (50:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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They couldn't make it easier for you with their Smart Box Guarantee. If you get a snack you don't like, they replace it in your next box for free. Visit naturebox.com slash BS and get 50% off your first box. Again, approved by my wife. Let's go. Yeah. Clear enough for you. what's happening welcome to the bs podcast it is wednesday i think it's february 17th what day is it tate february 17th february 17th oh tate using his mic good job job. We have Robert Smigel, who has this great special about Triumph on Hulu, and we have my buddy Jacko coming up later.

First, I want to talk about we had an announcement today. We announced the new content website, theringer.com, which I have been planning with a bunch of my old Grantland colleagues and a couple of other people for the last few months. And actually, I guess the story goes back to last May. I stopped working for ESPN second week of May after 14 years. That's a story for another time, and that story will be told. Since then, I signed with HBO.

I started planning my own television show for them and had to figure out what that tv show was which i think i'm pretty close to having had figured out uh and who i wanted to work with on that side i also started innovating with them uh on the hbo now side and on the non-scripted side so that's been been great, and they've been awesome to deal with, and I hope the show that we end up with ends up half as good as they've been to deal with. They're awesome. They're as good as advertised. But that wasn't the only thing I was doing. Over the course of the last nine months,

I created my own media company, which is complicated. There's a lot of stuff I didn't know. A lot of stuff I learned. I had been researching it really since, uh, September 2014 after I got suspended by ESPN. I realized that, uh, I could not stay there in all probability. And then I had to figure out what I want to do next with my life. So, uh, I, I had been talking to dozens of people, um, in the business, people who invest in stuff, all kinds of things, just trying to figure out what the landscape was and trying to figure out the best way, you know, to fund a company like that, the best way to do it, how you would structure it, how you would roll things out and things like that. I started, uh, I, I knew that I wanted to do a website, but I wasn't necessarily, necessarily

sure I was going to do it because the reality is that the HBO show is so important, um, for a variety of reasons. It just can't fail and it's going to take up a huge chunk of my time. And I just didn't want to do a website unless I knew I had people that I trusted 100%. So in October, I ended up hiring four people that I loved working with at Grantland. Sean Fennessy, who's going to be the editor in chief of this new website. Chrisy, who's going to be the editor-in-chief of this new website. Chris Ryan, who's his right-hand man, who you've heard on Channel 33 a few times, who's a really creative guy. And the two of those guys were really two of the people that I had gravitated toward during the last couple years at Grantland creatively in a lot of different ways.

And then Mallory Rubin, who worked at Grantland for us the last two years. She's going to be a deputy editor. And Juliette Lippman, who originally was working at McSweeney's, and we started doing the quarterlies with her, and we loved working with her. We ended up hiring her, and she's another one who's great to work with and also really good on podcasts as a side project. But it was those four people that in October, it just seemed like it was time to get going. And I had the resources to hire four people and those were the first four.

And we spent the next, I don't know, next few months trying to figure out things like name, a name for the website, where this website would be located, what it would be about, and all these different things. And at the same time, I started building a podcast network that includes this podcast. I had to figure out how to do this podcast. These are things I did not know how to do. That was the month of September, basically.

How am I going to do this podcast? Where is it going to be? What kind of equipment am I going to have? And all this stuff happens really fast. All of a sudden, in the beginning of October, I'm here. I'm doing four podcasts in a week. We're just getting it out into the world. Tate's working for me all of a sudden, who I just met a few weeks ago, who's only, I think, 22.

And so we had to do that whole thing. Where is it going to be? Is it going to be on iTunes? Yep, it's going to be on iTunes. It's going to be in SoundCloud. Who's going to sell it? Had to figure out all that stuff. Had to figure out, all right, if I launch a company, how are people going to have health benefits?

How are people going to, are they going to have a 401k? You know, it's just a lot of stuff. And that's why, like, I haven't written anything really since last May. I think the last column I wrote was about Tim Duncan. I did the Obama thing for GQ, but that was mostly a transcript. But all this stuff is a full-time job and then some, and it's overwhelming. And on top of it, you know, it was really hard those first couple months, uh, you know, after I left ESPN, just because, you know, I'd spent five years of my life planning that old site and, and hiring everybody for it.

And, you know, and it became part of my life to go to that office, to see everybody, you know, I think we were an exceptionally close website in a lot of ways. And then all of a sudden it just ends. And, you know, that's a hard thing to deal with too because I would compare it to probably what it's like for somebody to get traded from a team or to have a TV show get canceled or to have a movie finish filming. It's impossible to explain how hard it is until you've been through it. And it was just weird to know that all these people that I cared about were working at this office that was, you know, 15 minutes away from my house. And that was it. And I wasn't part of it anymore. So, you know, it was a crazy, crazy, crazy few months.

One of the best things I did, I hired Eric Weinberger from the NFL Network, who's fantastic, to work with me as the president of this new thing that we're building. And then we hired somebody named Jeffrey Chow to be the COO. And they've been able to handle a lot of this stuff. They're great to work with. They're creative guys trying to figure out how to build this out because it's impossible to do everything. And, you know, you need good people around you. That's the best thing I learned at Grantland is that you're as good as the people around you

and that's it. You just are. You are the sum of everyone else's parts, which is what we've tried to recreate with everything we're doing. So just speaking about the website quickly, we don't want to, we didn't want to create a 2.0 version of Grantland. I think we have too much respect for, for what that site was and what that site meant to all of us. And I don't,

I don't think it's a good idea just in general to run an idea back. I think the site has to be a little different, a little more modern. And I'm happy to talk about that down the road, but it's not going to be the same site. I'm not going to say it's going to be a better site, but we want it to be just as good. And we want it to feel different than the old site was. So there'll be more details on that to come, but we want to find original voices. We want to find people who can spitball and collaborate with editors and writers and we want to hire good people we had a no asshole rule at Greatland

we didn't want to hire people that were difficult or mean spirited there was a certain type of person we gravitated to and I think it's fair to say we're going to do that again. Um, mid, I guess late October, November, December, January, we were working out of this, uh, temp house that we rented in Beachwood Canyon. That was basically month by month. Uh, it was pretty interesting.

There was a lot of days, you know, I wasn't there all the time. It was the four of them. Um, just kind of pointing out what the site would look like and what kind of writers we'd want to have and, um, a game plan for everything. And, uh, you know, I think the hardest thing was figuring out the name. It's really hard to name stuff where you realize is that a lot of the good names are already taken. A name that you might like, you can't trademark.

It's just unbelievably complicated. And you naturally hate every name until you hear it a hundred times. I hated Gretlin. And I made the mistake of actually saying that before we launched. But I really disliked it. I didn't, it just sounded too artsy fartsy to me. And within a year, I, I ended up really liking the name because it sounded like a place you would go. It was like, I'm going to Grantland. It sounded like a destination. Uh, we ended up on the ringer for for a couple of very easy reasons one was that it's an easy name to remember and it's an easy name to spell which is really the two staples you want from a website um there are a couple other reasons that with that we liked it but

just in general it sounded like we chris r Ryan always said this joke that, uh, whenever we said a website name that he was going to see Martin Scorsese or Quentin Tarantino, and he was telling that person's assistant, I'm here to see blank. And that's how we would try to figure out if the website name works. So like one name that I think I bought bought i might have even been drunk i bought the url for binge mode and uh and and the other four thought that was hysterical that i bought that url and it's an embarrassing url i don't know why i bought it i don't know what happened i lost my mind for two minutes but um so chris was like i'm here um my name is chris ryan i like, I'm here. Um, my name is Chris Ryan. I'm serious. I'm here to see Mr. Tarantino. I'm from binge mode and you just know it's a bad name. Um, so eventually we, we just all kind of like the ringer and it made sense that somebody

would be like, yeah, I'm here to see Mr. Belichick. I'm Bill Simmons from the ringer. And we just, that became the name. Uh, yes, we know it was a Johnny Knoxville movie from 2005. That was actually the biggest drawback to the name. And then we realized that probably even Johnny Knoxville has forgotten he was in that movie. So I think we're good on that front. So if you go to theringer.com, you can see a splash page with our logo. You can see our contact info. You can see a form to sign up for the Ringer's newsletter. We're going to release this newsletter, I think, up to three times a week starting in mid-March.

And, you know, it's not going to be a website jammed in a newsletter. We don't want to flood your email box with 7,000 words of text. It's a way we're going to have, we're, we have writers that we've already hired. We have people that are creative and we're not going to have a site for a few months. So we wanted a place that people could go and, uh, and, and read, you know, quicker takes and lists and fun stuff. And, you know, if, uh, if something crazy happens in the night of the NBA lottery, I'm going to need a place to write. So I think, uh, I think it'll be a fun short-term

alternative until we actually have a site. So I don't want to give too much away, but so far we've hired eight were former Grant Landers on top of the four I already had, or we already had, I should say. Craig Gaines, Brian Curtis, Ryan O'Hanlon, Riley McAtee, Danny Chow, Joe Fuentes, Tate Frazier, who's just chimed in earlier. And then we had Andy Greenwald is on the Channel 33 side. And then we hired Amanda Dobbins to run our culture side. And we have a lot more people to hire and probably a few names from the past that you may or may not recognize. I think we have a chance to do something really cool. I think one thing that's a really fun wrinkle for all of us is the

fact that my show and all the people we're going to hire for that show and everybody we're hiring on the website side, at least the LA people, we're all going to be in the same building in the same vicinity. And, you know, the, the goal is to build something of a creative hub that branches out in a bunch of different directions. You're talking linear TV, digital TV, podcasts, writing, social, branded content, scripted, non-scripted, everything. I think we have a chance to pull that off. And hopefully my HBO show will be good enough to be the face of that entire enterprise. It's a remarkable opportunity for me. HBO does not give out that many shows.

You know, it's a little daunting, but it's also awesome. And, you know, I, I realized fully that it's, I, I'm extremely fortunate to have all these chances and also like, you know, me and ESPN obviously didn't end well and it's fun to take shots at them from time to time, but you know, none of this happens if, if a long time ago, people like John Skipper and John Walsh didn't take a chance on me. And I got some great opportunities to do some great stuff with them from 2000, especially from 2009 to 2013. It was a really great place to work. And in the last two years it wasn't, but that doesn't mean that, uh, that I don't value a lot of the times that we had there and

a lot of the stuff we did. And I wish it wasn't so petty now. Um, and maybe that'll change down the road, but you know, I do think there, there were some great people that I met along the way at ESPN that really helped shape the way that I'm thinking about all this stuff. So this isn't like, uh, you know, for me, it's like, this is just the evolution of where everything was going. And, uh, I have really high hopes for the ringer. So you can help us out by going to the ringer.com. You can sign up for the newsletter and get our stuff. You can start following us on Twitter. It's at ringer and you can start following us on Facebook as well. And we look forward to the next few months and hopefully years and seeing where this goes.

This is great. I love this is for me. This is the best part with the unknown, trying to build stuff, trying to figure out who to work with, trying to create stuff from scratch, trying to innovate, spitballing and meetings. Like I've gone through this a few times now. At Jimmy's show, I went through it with 30 for 30. I went through it with Grantland and now I'm going in, going through it now simultaneously with the HBO show. And then all the other stuff we're doing on the, uh, on the ringer side. And, uh, you know, it's really, really, really fun, really exhilarating. And you know i i just think when you have the chance

to create something that leaves an impact what's better than that so anyway the ringer.com check it out all right we're gonna call robert smigel in a second but first i want to talk about meundies.com home of the world's most comfortable underwear. It's two times softer than cotton. It's actually made out of a fabric called Modal. And I've been wearing their underwear and their boxers really all the time. You know what's nice? You know what else is liberating?

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And I love the French Terry. Tate, but I loved wearing them and I love these, uh, the French Terry Tate. Am I wearing the job, the French Terry jogger pants right now? Yes, you are. Okay. You have a witness. Tate would never lie. Except, except when he says he's not mad at Cam Newton for choking in the super bowl. That's the only time Tate will lie. And he doesn't want to talk about Cam Newton, but, But MeUndies has dozens of styles. They have limited edition original prints. And right now, they have a pretty good deal. You could save up to $8 per pair with a subscription. Shipping is free in the U.S. and Canada.

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And now, without further ado, let's call Robert Smigel. Joining us today is my friend Robert Smigel, who just did the Triumph Election Special. Is it Triumph's Election Special 2016? Is that the official title? Close enough. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what it is. The logo says, has no S, but it was all done in a hurry.

No, it's great. And it's on Hulu. And I like Hulu. I recommend Hulu. But I really recommend this show. I thought it was fantastic. I. And I like Hulu. I recommend Hulu. But I really recommend this show. I thought it was fantastic. I actually thought it was too good. I felt like it was 85 minutes.

And I felt like I would have been totally happy with 40. And you gave me so much content and so many laughs. But I have a – I don't know what to do with the content. We shot like 18 remotes in two and a half weeks. There's other stuff that didn't make it. And I just figured people aren't going to watch this thing from start to finish. And so I put a couple of things that I thought were a little extraneous at the end. Yeah.

Even though like the Hulu people, it was their favorite sketch was the one where Triumph pretends that he's part of Chris Christie's advance team. Right. And just makes a thousand fat jokes in prepping a diner for a Chris Christie meet and greet. So I watched, I told you, I watched like the first 35 minutes and then I watched the rest of it last night. And as I was watching it, my son came over, who's eight, and he's like, what's this? And it was right as the microaggression college student things were starting. Oh, not a good one for your kid. Oh, no.

He loved it. He did? He absolutely loved it. He was laughing. He didn't understand why the puppet was talking. He thought the puppet was real. Oh, no. And so he watched the rest of it.

And I haven't heard him laugh. I don't think he understood half the jokes, but he was laughing. But when you reinforced Chris Christie's toilet seat, he almost died. Like, he rolled off the couch. That's the one I can show my kids. Yes. That's the bit i can show my kids yes that's the bit i can show my kids the reinforced toilet seat hit every ounce of his funny bone but uh i thought so sadly mine too that was my favorite bit so we're stuffing the toilet with uh chickens to simulate yeah whole

whole big winner so you shoot this thing you. You're basically on the campaign trail with all the candidates. You could not have picked a better election to do this. Yeah, I had to jump in. Couldn't not do it this time. You had Ted Cruz there. You had a whole bit with him. You had the Christie thing we just mentioned. You had Mike Huckabee, who hadn't dropped out yet.

No. He was the most willing participant of anyone you had. Yes. And it's painful. Well, he had, you know, as Triumph would say, he had about, he had nothing to lose. Right. He had about 50 votes. 35 of them were the Duggar family.

Right. family right so he uh he was uh a willing you know it was very funny because um i happened upon him sort of like we i wasn't supposed to see him one morning we were at the tea party convention and then i read you know we were following the schedule and it says there's a huckabee huddle in south in south carolina and it's a pancake breakfast. And I was like, well, Mike Huckabee at a pancake breakfast, we've got to see if we can get in there because it's just inherently funny on account of he's fat. And then, so the guy who was his campaign manager,

his digital, head of digital, Hogan was his name, and he recognized me. And I was shocked. He recognized me and wouldn't let me shoot, but said he was a fan of Triumph and do you want to meet the governor afterward? And we struck a conversation and I told him we had some funny ideas for candidates that we would like to pitch. And so I got to meet Huckabee afterward, and I pitched him a few of these ideas. And he went for it.

And, you know, that's one of my favorite his kind of, you know, saying stuff like, you know, you have to take this seriously. It's not like you would a pie eating contest. Right, right. You know, this isn't something you can just laugh off some nonsense like evolution or logical reasoning. Right. And he just went with it. He didn't have a choice. he just went with it he didn't have a choice

sorry he didn't have a choice this is a choice but he did have a choice in terms of like what jokes he was willing to say because the piece is it was a brilliant writer rob freed came up with this premise that triumph was gonna prep prep a candidate for the debate. And it was really like the heart of the whole show was this idea that Triumph is jumping in because Donald Trump has made Triumph's behavior valid. And that suddenly being an insult comic is actually appropriate and what needs to be done. And it had just taken, the fact that it had gotten to this point was why I, you know, really felt. Because, like, there was a Wall Street Journal article last fall calling him Trump the insult comic dog.

And it just became apparent that I had to do this. But Huckabee, so like I would give jokes to Huckabee as Triumph. He would answer a question, and I would say, no, you've got to hurt somebody. You have to say things meanly. So there's like one, it happens like within 20 seconds. Triumph reads him a Rick Santorum joke, which is incredibly crude. And Huckabee's like, I don't want to read that. Well, okay, how about a Fiorina joke? And then he reads what I consider so much more offensive.

He reads a joke about Carly's Fiorina is 61 years old, which in dog years is 61 years old. Right. And the audience actually groaned like there are jokes you just can't do anymore but it was just funny to me what huckabee was you know it's it's classic it's always that way people get hung up on words and um you know that's the way it's always been at snl at conan when i've had to deal with the standards people. They always get hung up on the specifics and not the ideas, which are sometimes way more offensive. Well, my favorite, I mean, I love the whole show.

I really laughed so many times. I rarely laugh when I watch TV anymore, too. I feel like this grizzled season comedy veteran that just can't, you can't get a reaction out of me. And this one just hits my funny bone, but you had this, you had this bit where you went to the university of New Hampshire and, uh, and you met with all these college students and the whole topic was microaggression and what you can say and not say. And, um, it's this university, New Hampshire, because they had actually at one point come out with what they called

a bias-free language guide. Right. Which described words like American as inappropriate because it's offensive to South America. Right. And, you know, the word poor is inappropriate. I mean, some of this stuff I'm sure will prove right down the line, but it's pretty extreme. And the school itself has kind of divorced itself from the bias-free language guide at this point.

But, yeah, this is something that has just sort of come to the forefront in the last year and and i was even though it was off the it wasn't part of the election i just really wanted to do it uh it was really important to me to do that one and also there were so many republican candidates in the race that this the thing was really i like anything I could do to make fun of liberals was like, please, please throw it my way. I actually thought it made sense in the context of the special. And it also illuminated for me, you know, whatever's happening in society with how skittish everybody is about everything at this point. And there's no laughter in anything. And everybody's so super serious and afraid to offend anyone.

And everyone's apologizing all the time. And yet it's also like, it's an industry in itself. Outrage has just become. Yeah. And that, and that's been going on for years and years. But in the last,

I would say 18 to 24 months, it's just gone up seven levels and what's funny is roasts and triumph and i think howard stern to some degree and there's just a couple people who have become exempt but if you watch this if you watch that microaggression thing like it's super uncomfortable in a good way it's really funny and you're handing out name tags to these people you didn't even you didn't even tell what all the name tags were but then when you were showing people later you could see them like one guy was jv drake uh but but uh i was actually disappointed that we didn't do a close-up of that one because it would have gotten a huge laugh.

You could see it, though. But these kids, they were so kind of – I just didn't know where it was going. I've never seen anything quite like that. I didn't know there was one kid in the front row, a guy who looked like he was going to just start punching Triumph at all times. Was that the heavy kid? Yeah, the heavier kid, yeah. He just seemed so angry

i know you know it was weird because uh and and the only thing that's a bummer about that piece is that like i go on youtube and see comments and people are just some of the people are just tearing into these kids oh no calling them beta males and you know pussies and you know spoiled i mean every everything everything people have been sort of thinking about these kids being protected and uh you know entitled all that stuff it's just you know they're just tossing these uh they're just tossing it all on these kids and in in fairness, like, I think the kids, I met the kids before we did the bet. You know, I hadn't, you know,

I took about 10 minutes to talk to the kids because some of them didn't even know who Triumph was. I mean, you know, Triumph hasn't been on network TV in like six years. Right. So, you know, not everybody watches TBS regularly who's like 19 years old. So some of them didn't know who Triumph was.

Some did. They knew that the whole thing was a goof on some level. And some of them asked me, like, well, how should we act? I mean, they were all, you know, we picked kids who at least most of them were kind of, you know, supportive of all these ideas. And I said, well, if you believe in these ideas, then, you know, don't run away from that. Act like you believe in them. But I think some of the kids maybe tried a little extra hard to maintain, you know, their principles or at least have the appearance of doing that.

Like some kids I think were trying not to laugh on purpose. And I couldn't tell afterward, like, okay, has this made it way too uncomfortable? And the writers thought they liked it better this way. They were happy that the kids weren't playing along that much. No, it added a little edge to it. I thought it was really effective. I'm not used to that. I mean, usually when i do triumph

i always ask people in advance uh is it okay for me to talk like everything else i did i went up to people and said is this all right you mind talking to this dog and uh and um you know most of the time people do laugh along. And I think this and the Michael Jackson trial were the two most uncomfortable bits I've ever done with Triumph. In terms of people's reaction. Triumph's never gotten punched, right? There was one guy, remember in 2004, we actually got some money to shoot a movie. The only other time I've ever attempted anything remotely like this in 2004, which was another very funny election because the country was so polarized. It was Bush and Kerry. And I started the project in the summer during the convention.

And we shot a week at the Democratic Convention, and there was one guy who was, you know, we were just walking through Boston. That was a, are you surprised that I might have gotten punched in Boston? No, that would have been my first draft pick, yeah. It was the Boston Convention, and we were just, I was walking, making my way through the streets, leading away from the convention center and interacting with some of the, there were protesters there and there were a lot of just people dressed up in goofy outfits. And one guy on the way out, on the way, in one direction, I come across this guy, and he's making cracks about Conan and Jay Leno. This is 2004. He's just this cheerful guy making jokes. And then I go away, do a bunch of bits with protesters, and come back back and I'm making my way back to the, back to the arena. I guess it was the fleet center at the time. And, uh,

and now the guy, I come up to him again and I say something. And now he immediately starts swinging at me. He's obviously had like seven beers in the, in the interim, in the 45 minute interim. Swinging at you or Triumph? Swinging at me. I made some crack at him, and I got just a little too close to his face. He's like, what the fuck, man?

And then immediately calms down and starts apologizing. Do you worry about where comedy's going? Because one of the things that occurred to me as I was watching Triumph, was part of comedy is saying something you shouldn't say. That's what makes it funny. It's like, oh, ooh, you said that. Or, oh, ooh, you went there. And now everyone's afraid to go anywhere.

So what happens to comedy? If I'm under 25 right now, how am I supposed to think? It is a complicated question. And I think, you know, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing entirely. Like, Bill, here's something that you'll find interesting. So like the most famous thing Triumph ever did probably, besides getting in trouble with Eminem, was he went to the Star Wars opening in 2002, I think. Yeah. I think it was the Attack of the Clones.

And everybody who likes Triumph always quotes this to me and makes fun of the nerds so there's one scene in that where triumph uh brings out mr spock and mr spock just silently walks past the line and gives everyone the finger just doesn't say a word i don't even remember what spawned, what motivated the moment, but it's a really funny moment in the piece toward the end. Yeah. And so we taped this a couple of ways. And one version, he's holding up a sign that says fags and still walking silently with the grim face. And it was really making us laugh because it's just Mr. Spock holding up this crude, you know, epithet.

Right. And that's the one we used you know, epithet. Right. And that's the one we used when we screened it the night before. And it killed with the audience. And here I go again. The standards people had no notes about that. They couldn't have cared less about the word fags back then. People didn't look at it the same way. People weren't enlightened.

They didn't think of it as a, you know, they thought faggot was a bad word, but they didn't think that was a bad word necessarily. And so then everybody – we go back up to the writer's room, and everybody's thrilled about the piece. But then somebody comes up to us and says uh you know some of the interns were kind of bummed just about the uh just about the sign that said fact and we were just puzzled we were like huh fags isn't faggot it's sort of its own thing now isn't it and that's how everybody thought back then and uh yeah but i don't know. This is how they felt. And fortunately, we had this other take with the finger, and we decided, well, let's not, you know. We just decided to listen to them and replaced it with the finger.

And, you know, here it is 12 years later. Could you imagine if that, there's no way anyone would laugh if that sign was held up now. I was thinking about, you know, Eddie Murphy, his delirious concert. Yeah. It was probably one of the seminal entertainment moments of my entire childhood and puberty and hilarious. I knew every single line. And, uh, and if you watch the first 10 minutes now, it's staggering. It is the most homophobic, awful first 10 minutes you ever watched. And in 1982 or 1983 didn't, nobody cared. No, it was like, Oh,

this is hilarious. Mr. T. And that that's my point. That's my point. It's like, we have no idea right now what might genuinely be offensive to everybody in 15 years. And so I feel obligated to, you know, not to write that shit off and to listen. And, you know, if people are going to complain, oh, fuck, I can't make gay jokes anymore. Well, find something else to make fun of, you know, Triumph made a lot. Believe me, Triumph made plenty of gay jokes over the years. And, you know, I barely do anymore. And that's fine. I mean, like you go back. Yeah, you go back and you watch any roast basically from before 2010. And 27% of the jokes are about somebody being gay or somebody wanting to have sex with another man. And that's it.

It was just a staple. It was like the number one go-to joke. Exactly. And there were jokes that were, I remember having a conversation with Scott Thompson about this in the 90s. Guys like Letterman, who's obviously my hero and would never do a crude joke, but he would do things like,

ladies and gentlemen, Dan Rather and I want to have an announcement. We're in love. We're getting married. Yeah. And it would get a huge ironic applause and laugh. And I remember talking to Scott about it and like, we're kind of having it both ways, aren't we? We're kind of pretending we're tolerant, but at the same time we're laughing because it's, ha-ha, this is deviant behavior. here you know but um you know in fairness the idea of david letterman and dan rather you know i guess i guess you could say well they're just you know right just stuffy old

white guys so it is funny to imagine them there's something about it seems like the one window for and stern i think has achieved this this when just everybody's fair game and you're just not you're just not going to spare anybody which is I think one of the reasons Triumph works although I think as you just pointed out the lines are a little different now

and they should be different by the way I think there are jokes that Stern won't make now that he would have made 20 years ago. You know, and Stern goes out of his way to kind of, you know, make it a point to, you know, express his tolerance for all kinds of people. And, you know, his act has definitely changed on some level. And I just feel like, you know, you have to at least listen to what people, what younger people are saying. I mean, the flip side of this is there's a lot of progress. I mean, would you rather these kids were, you know, racist? And I mean, I do feel like

every generation gets less and less racist, and that's a great thing. I mean, I feel like, you know. And way more tolerant. Yeah, way more tolerant. And I feel like, you know, it's very easy to, you know, it's very glib to just write everything off as being politically correct, you know, as opposed to just calling it progress. Right.

So, sorry. How embarrassing. I'm talking about progress at the same time you hear my ringer play Last Train to Clarksville. I enjoyed it. Well, it's definitely better now, and I do think that it feels like we've gone through three stages, right? Where stage one was basically, we'll say anything. Who cares if somebody gets hurt?

Then the second stage was, wait, your feelings are hurt by that? Just complete surprise. Oh, should I readjust the lines? And now we're in stage three, which is the right stage to be, which is what can I say? Where are the lines? How far can I go? How far can I mean like look at that – so I left it in on purpose in the Democratic debate. I make a joke about Hillary and her cankles. It's a pretty crass thing to do, but it was – I like the joke. Sometimes I'll break my own rules if the joke is funny and ridiculous enough. But then this girl approaches Triumph and says it's sexist, make fun of it.

And then later in the piece, there's a joke about Hillary's hair. Does she go to – does she show her hair to a picture of Siegfried or Roy? Hilarious. Yeah, but it's like, come on. You're just trying to be outraged now. Donald Trump's hair hasn't been made fun of. And there's meanwhile like a thousand jokes about other people's physical appearance in that special. You know, people who aren't men.

Well, it's going to be a fascinating next five years for comedy. And I don't know where it's going. But what I liked is, you know, you're on Hulu. It's going to be a fascinating next five years for comedy, and I don't know where it's going. But what I liked is you're on Hulu, so you have a little more. If that's on NBC, I think it's a little different level of leeway and not as good for triumph. Yeah, I would think so. Although late night, I really had. I mean, when things are on late night, you get a shocking amount of leeway.

And stuff that's on SNL now, I mean, it's insane compared to when I was a writer there, what I would have been allowed to do. If you trotted out the ambiguously gay duo in 2016, is there a backlash? It might be different i mean i always thought of that as uh you know the the reason i always uh enjoyed writing that was because i thought that sketch was about primarily about everyone's obsession with each other's sexuality right and how you know people who think of themselves as sophisticated and uh progressive could be reduced to giggling teenagers when speculating on whether Tom Cruise is gay or whichever celebrity of the moment. So that's what – to me the whole piece was written around the shot of the bad guys looking at each other when Ace and Gary would do something. Egghead. Right.

Yeah, big foot. What are you guys looking at? Big head, yeah. Yeah, big head. Yeah, so to me that was entirely defensible for that reason. And then secondarily, it was sort of about, and this joke's been made a thousand times, but it's still funny, just the thin line between aggressive male behavior and homoeroticism, which almost any Stallone and Schwarzenegger movie in the 80s undercuts that. Tango and Cash.

Or supports that theory. Yeah, Tango and Cash. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's probably the number one. But I think it would be fine because i think you're right i think it was you're making fun of something that wasn't what it seems like you were making fun of but at the same time i still think in 2016 if you release that for the first time there is probably a small element like what is this and yeah there could be yeah i don't know

i mean and also i do think again like this next generation they don't give a shit to the same degree over who's gay and who is no definitely not they definitely don't care that's the flip side of the stuff people complain about like okay but now they have these you know i have a nephew who goes to a school where there's a movement to have um you know to to get rid of he and she and use the the term z oh no yeah yeah yeah i mean there's that kind of stuff oh god yeah so you know it's all about um balance and and and that's my point it point. It's not all bad. You know, this stuff. It comes from a good place.

It's going to be all bad if we don't come up with a decent person to be the next president of the United States. That could be a problem. Yeah. I'm supposed to stay apolitical. Yeah, no, stay apolitical. We should both stay apolitical. Yeah, no, stay apolitical. No, we should both stay apolitical.

But these are scary times, though. So you can get the Triumph Special on Hulu. Triumph Special, yeah, I think it's still free, actually. I think they're still putting it out there on the web for free right now. It's a million percent free. And if you can't find it, all these streaming sites, it's really hard to find stuff. All you have to do is just search at the top. Just search for Triumph.

And it's really hilarious. I really loved it. And that was the main reason. Other than to just talk to you on the pod and say hello and check in with you. I wanted more people to know about the special because I thought you did a great job. Me too. There aren't a lot of ads for it, so I really appreciate you getting it out there.

This is the first thing I've done, I think, as my own project that's gotten really great reviews. Everything else gets good reviews like 10 years later. No, this is good right now. Here's the other thing. One last thing and then we'll go. Sure. I was amazed that you did all of this in six weeks. Me too.

I told the guy at Hulu, I told the guy who hired us, this may suck, this is high risk, high reward, it could be a disaster, because I've never, like, I've always been a control freak who, like, carefully polishes these triumphant modes basically each one takes two weeks we write jokes then we go and we shoot it and then I'm sitting in the edit room for like four days or something and this time we shot literally 15 or 18 within within two and a half weeks it It was just a suicide mission on one hand, I thought.

But fortunately, you know, we had a lot of good material. I worked with some incredible writers who helped a lot. I mean, I depended on them more than ever because, you know, I'm literally producing the whole thing. And, like, just you shoot something, then you're just trying to prepare for the next one as best you can within like, you know,

I basically would fall asleep to the laptop every night on the road, basically get like three hours of sleep. Did you, did you worry that cause you know, you're older now, did you worry that you would have the energy slash stamina slash juice to make it through these six weeks? Because I'm in my mid-40s now, and I'm already feeling it. It's just you get older, you're a little different.

No, I know. It's like adrenaline keeps you going. And like I said, I had a lot of support had had great writers that made it easier uh but um but yeah it's it's it's the adrenaline the combination of this has to be funny and uh i might get thrown out right i might get beaten up right um all right so check it out hulu just if you can't find it on the main page just just search for Triumph. It's awesome. It's hilarious. I really enjoyed it. And it was great talking to you. I'll talk to you soon. You too, man. Talk to you soon. All right.

Hey, congrats on the website. The latest in the crazy 2016 election. I wanted to talk about SimpliSafe. Just a couple days ago, at like 4.30 in the morning, my car alarm went off. I think because a cat jumped on it. And it's really scary when you hear an alarm going off and you don't feel safe. And I'm grabbing for my glasses and knock the glasses off. They fall to the floor and I'm just freaking out. And then it turns out everything's fine. But it made me think how there's no worse feeling in the world than feeling like you're not safe, which is why I'm so happy to have SimpliSafe. Because, you know, you see all these ads from home security companies.

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How are you? America's worried about you. Actually, and we're worried about America. Yeah, America should be worried about America, really. That's really what's glaringly obvious here. Why did you kill Judge Scalia? I thought that was terrible. He went to Texas, he smothered him with a pillow.

That was awful. No, believe me, if I was going to kill anybody, he wouldn't even be in the top million people I have on my list. We should mention we went to college with Judge Scalia's son. That's right. Judge Scalia came and gave That's right. He, Judge Scalia came and gave a great speech at Holy Cross once. This is way back.

We're going early nineties. And then he was at our graduation. He was right there sitting in the front row as we marched out. I know. So I always felt a weird tie to him, even as his politics unfolded. And I agreed with a lot, disagreed with a lot of it.

Yeah, I obviously agreed with him and loved him. I didn't really know his son that well. We kind of got to know him a little bit later in our senior year through mutual friends. Yeah, he became a priest eventually. He did. He was going to the seminary after Holy Cross. So something tells me that he was not really running in the same circles as you and I, probably. Nah. Someone who entered the priesthood.

We may have had different areas that we hung out in, just going out on a limb. Yeah, I don't remember drunkenly stumbling home from Carroll Street with Judge Scalia's son at any point. No. No. But, yeah, crazy times. When's the next debate? I'm the next... The primary in South Carolina. the primary next primary yeah i think i'm pretty sure it's on saturday saturday okay i think so so give us what's your take right now

and where things are going and what's going to happen and who's the favorite and all this stuff hold on let me just open the window and step out on the ledge before i do that okay hold up we'll give you a second um well i mean unquestionably, Trump is the frontrunner. I mean, you know, polls come out, he's like at 39, 40 percent nationally. And, you know, Rubio and Cruz are kind of nip and tuck for second nationally behind him. And I think those numbers hold up in South Carolina where Trump is kind of running away with it. And Rubio and Cruz are right behind. Poor Jeb Bush and Ben Carson, Kasich.

Kasich was never really ever going to play in South Carolina, given his moderate positions. It's not going to go over well in South Carolina, so he's not really even contesting there. But, you know, Bush and Carson are dragging behind. Not only does Trump have appeal for some unbeknownst reason, but when you have fields with this many people, his numbers are even more exaggerated because if it came down to him against somebody else, he arguably could lose then, but until that happens, there's no sign of slowing him down, unfortunately. So after South Carolina, do more people drop out? Well, I would hope so. I mean, I don't really see why Ben Carson is still sticking around at this

point. I think he's in it sort of to build donor lists to sell future speeches or books or something. But he doesn't really have any plausible path to victory at this point. And Jeb Bush has a billion dollars to spend, but nobody at all is interested in Jeb Bush, so he doesn't quite see the handwriting on the wall yet. It would be interesting to see if he comes in like a distant fourth in South Carolina. What is his rationale for continuing? I mean, they have this, what they call the SEC primary coming up in March, which is all

these, you know, Southern states like the SEC conference, obviously. So, you know, but if you can't, you know, the Bush family is very popular in South Carolina. George Bush beat John McCain back there in 2000. You know, George Bush Sr. did well there going way back. So if Jeb Bush can't play in South Carolina, I would hope that he would wake up and say, what am I doing this for? It's just not happening for me, unfortunately.

Well, we had Chris Christie drop out, but he did have one moment. He had his Lloyd Benson, Dan Quayle moment with Rubio that at least he can hang his hat on a little bit. Yeah, he was basically like a suicide bomber. He took out himself and Rubio all in like one fell swoop at the debate. It's like a kamikaze pilot. Great, great job, Chris Christie. So, yeah, he really bloodied up poor Rubio who got dinged up in New Hampshire and was sort of on the ascent.

And that that definitely staggered him. And, you know, now here we are. So, you know, Rubio had a good debate last weekend and bounced back. And he does very well nationally in polls. And he's got all these endorsements of, you know, senators and real conservatives and what have you. But, I mean, Trump just Trumps him, basically. So it's completely inexplicable and devastating have you. But I mean, Trump just Trump just trumps him, basically. So it's

completely inexplicable and devastatingly depressing. What about Kasich's strategy of just throwing away South Carolina and going to Michigan? It reminds me a little of Greg Popovich, when Greg Popovich will throw away the Wednesday night game in Orlando because they're playing Golden State the next night. Yeah, that's sort of his plan, I guess. I mean, I don't know. Kasich is appealing to a Republican that doesn't really exist anymore, like a Rockefeller Republican of being sort of a Democrat light and figuring I'm from Ohio and Republicans need Ohio and my militant moderation will appeal to crossover voters, that's all well and good,

but you got to win a Republican primary. This Republican primary electorate is not looking for moderation in any way, shape, or form. So it's just not his time, and it probably hasn't been his time in the Republican Party since about 1976. So he can hope for the Midwest to come through for him, but he has no plausible path to victory either. And what everybody is basically battling for is to be the mainstream, quote-unquote mainstream establishment candidate. And it's basically between Kasich, Rubio, and Bush, although Rubio, except for immigration, is very conservative. And that's a big except for. But everybody's hoping to be the establishment

choice. And then, you know, a lot of money and establishment power, such as it is, gets behind that person and they become the anti-Trump. But while the three of them are still battling for that, you know, they're siphoning off votes that could go to that one person. Kasich, he does the thing, which I think is a really good lane for him. Chris Christie tried to own the lane of this country's in threats. We're in

fear all the time and we have no protection and we should all be like he did that whole thing. Now Kasich is doing the, everybody else is so negative. I'm trying to stay positive man. I'm just trying not to get any of this stink on me. Right. That's all well and good.

But if you look at who's leading in the polls, basically you have Bernie Sanders that basically wants to burn down Wall Street and Donald Trump that has, you know, spews nothing but hate and ridiculousness. Yeah. And people are like, yes, more of this, burn everything down, destroy it. Like, you know, the villagers in Frankenstein with pitchforks and torches. So John Kasich's like, let's all get along and do things and love everybody. Everybody's like, burn him first.

We really need him as a football commissioner and not as a president. Yeah, exactly. He should really be lobbying to replace Roger Goodell. Yeah. Guys, I just want to get along. There's a lot about him I don't like. Wow. He's found his groove, and that groove isn't going to win him the election.

No. But it's a groove nonetheless. Yeah, he's found it. God love him. He's going to be the president of New Hampshire, so he's got that going for him. They really love that. President of New Hampshire. I like that.

Yeah, he came in second in the primary. That's really the only place that he could do anything so i think he's probably has his eyes set on a possible vp thing would be a long game for him maybe maybe i don't know i don't know i mean there was some talk that i saw on the internet a while a couple weeks ago about you know trump saying something about well maybe he'd pick Kasich or something and, you know, or the brief thought that went through Trump's brain for two milliseconds and he had to feel a need to tweet it out or express it somewhere. You know, Kasich would at least would show that there'd be somebody that had a clue about

how the government works, but I'm not sure that that would ever really happen. If Trump got the nomination, the VP possibilities for him are all in the Tyson zone. You could tell me his VP is going to be— Including literally Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson's in there. You could tell me Dana White or Mark Cuban are the leading candidates to be his VP. I'd be like, I believe it. Hulk Hogan. Anything's possible.

I don't know about Hulk Hogan. Somebody from The Apprentice. I don't know anything. Hulk Hogan, anything's possible. I don't know about Hulk Hogan. Somebody from The Apprentice. I don't know anything. Hulk Hogan might be a problem. I'm not sure. He's not really that much more controversial than Trump. Oh, my God. I don't understand any of this.

I don't understand it either. Is it too late for Adam Silver to get involved? Adam Silver, yet again, the NBA has never been better, and they just had their best All-Star Saturday they've ever had, and I think he's ready for a larger platform. Yeah, I don't know. Silver and Stern? Adam Silver, David Stern?

Stern is the VP? I don't know. I mean, there's some talk that if it's, you know, Nate Silver, I think, your old buddy there, he had something on Twitter yesterday I saw, or on his website, and it said basically that if the nominees are Trump and Hillary, that instead of Michael Bloomberg running third party, that a better option, according to polling, would be if Romney then threw his hat in the ring as a third-party candidate. And then Republicans, the 60% of Republicans or 65% of Republicans that hate Trump would go there. And there may be some disaffected Democrats that don't love Hillary. And if enough Bernie voters stay at home, then Romney comes in as a third-party candidate and wins. But that's very difficult to do. It takes a lot of money to get on the 50 ballots, 50 states. I guess, Romney, that's not really an issue for him, but it requires a big effort. So I don't know. That's just sort of out in the realm of fantasy, I think. But it's something

to keep me from crying myself to sleep at night, at least. There's no chance if Trump lost the Republican spot that he would then go third party. Is that even doable? Oh, there's an excellent chance. But the problem is, is that it's really hard, apparently, from what I've read, it's hard to get on all 50 state ballots and it requires a lot of money and you need to have a lot of organization because I think you have to go out and get a lot of petitions signed and what have you. And I'm not sure Trump, while the money might not be an issue, I don't know that he has the organization to do that or the wherewithal to organize this number of volunteers to do all that. So it would really require a big effort to do that. And if he did that, he's just electing a Democrat. Unless we have some crazy European

style thing where we have five candidates. Hillary runs, Bernie runs as a socialist, and Bloomberg runs, and then Rubio is a Republican and Trump. Then it's just a free-for-all, God only knows. It feels like it's already a free-for-all. Yeah, exactly. With everything else that's gone on this election, it wouldn't surprise me to see something completely insane. Maybe just everything's going insane. I mean, the NFL's insane.

Yeah, everything is. Maybe just everything's going nuts. Maybe this is it. Maybe we're just. Look at Kanye West. He's tweeting out that he needs $53 million and all kinds of gibberish and just goes after America's sweetheart, Taylor Swift. It could be the end times. I don't know.

How dare he go. You don't go after Taylor Swift. That's right. It's America's sweetheart. I've really enjoyed Kanye's last nine, ten days. It's really quite something. I think he's been phenomenal. Are you watching the OJ show?

I've been DVRing it, but I have not watched any of it yet. But that couldn't be any more up my alley, so I'm excited to watch it. I don't understand how you... You're really in a funk. Now I'm worried about you, that you're not watching the OJ show. I don't understand what you, you're really in a funk. Now I'm worried about you that you're not watching the OJ show. I don't understand what's going on with you. I tried to get my wife to watch it. I'm like, hey, did we hear this OJ show?

She was like, meh. So I may have to watch it by myself. She didn't really seem as gung-ho for OJ as I was. So yeah, it was disappointing. But yeah, I don't know. I just spend a lot of time alone with my thoughts these days. At least you have a great book. My thoughts and a bottle of gin. No, I don't know. I just spend a lot of time alone with my thoughts these days. At least you have a great book.

My thoughts and a bottle of gin. No, I'm just kidding. No, you're not really kidding. I did DVR, and I am going to watch it, but I haven't yet. At least you have a great bullpen. That's it. That's all I got going for me. I just look up at my posters of Andrew Miller and Batances and Eraldis Chapman.

So I saw something today where it said Eraldis Chapman may be the best athlete in Major League Baseball. I didn't read the story because I was too excited, but that was good. The best athlete? Yeah. Better than Mike Trout? That's what this something I breezed over on the internet said. Yeah, I just saw the headline. Hmm.

Showed him on one of those exercise balls planking or something. So that was good enough for me. I'm actually ready for this baseball season. I like the Red Sox team. I like the farm system. And even Keith Law had his annual. Yeah, the prospects thing.

Yeah, like the top 50 in the major leagues. And the Red Sox had three of the top 20, not counting the guys who have already made the roster, like Mookie and the younger guys. But it's a likable young team. I've always enjoyed David Price. I like having an ace. I feel like it's like having an ace, having a great goalie, having a good reliever, having somebody who can make free throws at the end of the game. There's certain things you just need in life for your own sanity.

I'm glad David Price is on the Red Sox. And you've got a one-year-older, one-year-fatter Pablo Sandoval still making $22 million a year, so that's good for you, too. I don't know if he's fatter. I think he's just as fat. Well, that's progress, I guess, then. That's something. I think he leveled off. And now you're going to try Hanley Ramirez at a new position that he's never played before, so that's exciting too. Is it called the disabled list? Oh, he's playing first this year.

Oh, that'll last like five games. Somebody will clip him running by and he'll be out for seven weeks with a strained foot or something. Yeah, there's no question. There's a lot of things that can go wrong at first base. Get stepped on, etc. Yeah. Aaron's pick-off throw. The most valuable things that can go wrong at first base, get stepped on, et cetera, yeah.

Eric pick-off throw. The most valuable lesson we learned from the Hanley Ramirez signing is that you shouldn't sign somebody who's a known head case on another team because you have two guys on your team who can help ground him. That's just – if you're a head case, you're a head case. It doesn't matter like, oh, good, I was a head case, but now David Ortiz has the locker next to me and I'm better. I'm better mentally now.

It doesn't matter. His demonic presence has gotten rid of the exercise of the demons in my brain. Yeah, probably not. Are you fired up for the David Ortiz farewell tour? Oh, so fired up, absolutely. Yeah, can't wait. Absolutely. Yeah. Can't wait.

Tears in my eyes. Another dry eye on the house for old Big Papi. Yeah. Well, unlike Jeter, he's actually still producing. So it'll have a little more oomph to it. Yeah. He's producing all right. Yeah.

Kobe Jeter. His performance is certainly enhanced. Oh. He's been a real shot in the arm for that team. Johnny. No question about it. Stop it. Come on. All right.

So we used to do, Johnny, are you worried yet about the Yankees way back when? I used to ask you how worried you are in a week. We'll flip it this time. Johnny, how worried are you about the Republican Party? Oh, 160 on a scale of one to 10. 160. And climbing by the day, believe me. I'm more worried about the country because if we really have the prospect of a Trump-Sanders race, I mean, that's all she wrote, folks. Pack it up. It's ballgame. There's not enough beachfront in Belize for us all to move there.

We're looking at condos in Montreal and Vancouver. We could all live together. My family, your family. I'd rather go somewhere warm. I don't love the winter. Whatever. We just have to get out. Vietnam in 75. The helicopter's on the roof. I'll go to Montreal

or wherever. Just cling into the ladder. Johnny, we'll check in with you later in the month. Excellent. Take care. Enjoy the rest of the week. Bye-bye. You too.

Bye-bye. That's it for the BS Podcast. Thanks to SimpliSafe, the only home security that I trust. You get 24-7 professional monitoring. It's just $15 a month. Some of the other guys are charging three times as much. Go to simply safe bill.com and you get my exclusive 10% discount. Remember any home security that says free usually has a huge contract attached, not simply safe. Again, simply safe bill.com. Thanks to HBO. Now you don't need cable or satellite to watch HBO anymore.

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We about this bitch. Anytime y'all want to see me again, rewind this track right here, close your eyes And picture me rollin'